The Wars to Come: Geoffery and Nate in Conversation

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Newest Wall recruits Geoffery (Sullied) and Nate (partially Sullied but mostly Un-) talk ice dragons, leech death and costume party spoilers in a conversation inspired by a synchronised re-watch of the Game of Thrones season premiere The Wars to Come.

Before the episode begins though, we have to sit through the ‘Previously on…’

Nate: I kind of hate this bit because it spoils what’s gonna happen, like, ‘you’re gonna need to remember this.’ Especially Lancel.

Geoffery: Yes! Oh my gosh as soon as Ser Dontos turned up in the preview for Two Swords my Unsullied manchap guessed pretty much what was going to happen that episode. Mind you, if you weren’t fully up to speed with everything maybe you’d have forgotten who Lancel is…

Nate: True!  But it’s so annoying.

Winterfell

And we’re off! Da da da da da da da…

Nate: Is Dorne the only location added to the map? And the Bolton banner at Winterfell.

Geoffery: Pentos? Or did we have that in the first series? [A quick Google search has proven to me that yes, it did.  But to my credit, only in one episode!]  I love the Flayed Man at Winterfell!

Nate: I always forget what Pentos is, I mix it up with Meereen! Pentos is where Tyrion and Varys are?

Geoffery: Yeah that’s the one.  It’s where Dany and Viserys were at the beginning of the first series as well.

Nate: Ohhh, right.

Geoffery: Add it to your list of ‘Places Daenerys has Hung Out In’ (Trademarked Lady Geoffery)

Nate: It’s harder to keep track of the lands across the Narrow Sea.

Geoffery: Yeah, I do find they blur into one a bit but that’s probably because I’m not super into Dany’s storyline.  I don’t DISLIKE her but she’s not my fave.

Nate: I’m team Dany though. The rightful bloodline and Mother of Dragons. Stannis has to be my least favorite. Followed by Jon Snuhh.

Geoffery: I do feel a special kinship with Stannis because we both grind our teeth a lot.

Nate: I feel he’s in the right but Robb would’ve never gotten power if it weren’t for the Kingslayer.

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Lena Headey-photo Helen Sloan HBOAs Jaime and Cersei have a gossip next to their Daddy’s corpse, our conversation turns towards that other Jaime-and-Cersei-next-to-a-dead-relative’s-body scene …

Nate: Everyone went back to the rape scene last season during this part too which I thought was interesting.

Geoffery: Yeah that rape scene is still sticking in everyone’s minds.  I really disliked it and wrote a big long ranty blog about it and everything.

Nate: Did GRRM or any of the show runners comment directly on it last season?

Geoffery: Well GRRM basically said that it was written differently in the books but he didn’t discuss the scene with D & D either. And everyone else involved sort of hedged their bets and went ‘yeah but it sort of WAS rape in the book,’ or ‘it was consensual by the end so that’s fine.’ I do think it was a short-cut for D & D to go, ‘look! A bad man!’  I think rape is kind of a lazy plot device.

Nate: True. I guess I have to swallow the idea that it was consensual by the end to support my thought pattern anyway. I’d like to think that she didn’t want to do it purely on location but they could’ve written/directed it better. Especially if GRRM threw his hands up at it.

Geoffery: I think GRRM has sort of thrown his hands up at the whole show now if I’m honest.

Nate: Nooooo! I like to think he still enjoys it. Maybe in the way that J. K. Rowling enjoys Harry Potter, if that makes sense. It’s another artist’s take on your art.

Geoffery: Yeah, I think he probably enjoys it but doesn’t see it as an accurate representation of his books.  Ursula le Guin and Lloyd Alexander both said that about films of their books.

Nate: I can see that. It’s going to be so different without him writing an episode this season. Do you think he’ll ever write another one? It’s passed and almost separate from the books now anyway…and he wants to write Winds of Winter.

Geoffery: I think he’s probably done with it, I just get that feeling.  Like they were once intertwined but now they’ve split off, he does one thing and the show another. Question for you, would you rather the show went off in a completely different direction or followed GRRM’s plan for the unfinished books?

Nate: Either way, I’ll be satisfied, I think. If they’re not separate, it would need to be one hundred percent faithful and epic and the only way I think to do that would be a film. Especially after they just showed two episodes of Season Four in IMAX. “IMAX Presents: A Song of Ice and Fire (A Game of Thrones Finale).”  And maybe that’s how GRRM could make his return to this media?

Geoffery: Personally I hope it goes its own way rather than spoiling the books before they’re published because, let’s face it, the show will end before the books. But if it was a George-helmed movie, hmmm, maybe…It’s full of fabulous possibilities!

It’s all gone rather chilly as the episode heads to the Wall and some of our favourite fan theories begin to raise their cracked heads….

{Speculation based on possible spoilers, until the end-point marked below. Scroll fast if you are sensitive about even the possibility of spoilers!}

Nate: Do you know about the Ice Dragon Theory and the Three Heads of Targaryen and yadda yadda yadda Jon Snuhh’s mother?

Geoffery: I do! I’m a super ASoIaF theories fan.

Nate: So if a dragon is in the Wall it has to be waaaaay bigger than even Drogon is now. Like Balerion-big. How would HBO A) budget that without it looking like shit and B) make it look presentable for small screen entertainment?

Geoffery: It would look a bit pants.  But then, I don’t think I buy into that one, if I’m honest!

Telltale GameNate: Have you ever played Telltale’s Game of Thrones game?

 Geoffery: I haven’t no! I’m intrigued by it, but I always thought maybe it would come across as being a bit…fan-fictiony?

Nate: It’s not! It’s canon! It’s a bit of a Stark spinoff. You’re a family of their bannermen. And…the last episode is called The Ice Dragon….

Geoffery: Ah, I see

Nate: It features Tyrion, Cersei, Margaery, Jon, Dany and Ramsay Bolton; it got me thinking hard on that theory!

Geoffery: Maybe it’s a metaphor for the Lord of Light Vs Ice Dragon? I’m down with that!

Nate: Oh yeah! The finale of the series has to be a showdown between ice and fire. I would love to see an enormous ice dragon. It would make sense if he (or she) made the wall and their magic could even be the source of the white walkers. In the game you play as a few characters of the family. One at The Wall, one in King’s Landing, etc. And at The Wall we’re being set up for a mission to find this mythical place that’s a fortress. And there’s been mention of the cracked horn too… I’m thinking it’ll wake the ice dragon… and bring the Wall down.

Geoffery: I think the White Walkers do need a source or explanation like the Ice Dragon because in terms of magic they stick out a bit, I always think.

Nate: Exactly! Plus, when Dany was in Qarth (this is all pretty fresh to me because I’m reading A Clash of Kings now) they said that their magic is stronger in their presence and since they returned. Same with the wildfire at King’s Landing.

Geoffery: Yes I think Melisandre’s power has said to have increased since the birth of the dragons/the comet so it’s clearly all linked.

Nate: Ughhh I hate her though! She and Stannis don’t fit in the story, to me. I was so surprised to see them North too, in last season’s finale.

Geoffery: Maybe you’ll warm to Melisandre (no pun intended) when you read one of her PoV chapters, I know I did!

{End of Speculation-Potential Spoilers}

Stannis and Davos

Nate: I think the concept of an undeniable, physical God in this world is really cool though! But I think Stannis is as interesting as a concrete wall.

Geoffery: Melisandre felt very cold (again, what am I doing here with these puns? ) to me before her PoV but it gives her a bit of depth and humanity.

Nate: Maybe though! I’ve read through Davos but not her.

Geoffery: Davos! My Onion Knight!

Nate: I do have to say I enjoy Davos. But that’s because he seems a lot more interesting than Stannis.

Geoffery: Stannis IS a concrete wall (or pure iron if you want to use a book metaphor) but I think that’s sort of the point of him.  Davos is his heart. His onion-flavoured heart.

Nate: And I see that, but I don’t think he’s as just as he wants to think he is. Especially since he was ready to kill Gendry for himself.

Geoffery: I think I find Stannis interesting because he IS the true king, but let’s be honest, he would be rubbish.

Nate: He would, I agree. And he killed Renly! Fratricide! Even the Lannisters are above that!

Geoffery: Fratricide! New favourite word!

Nate: It is a good word.

Geoffery: You say the Lannisters are above that but I’m sure someone somewhere has come up with a Tommen killed Joffrey theory.

Nate: I would love that. I REALLY wanted Sansa to push him way back in Season One. Every time I watch I still think she can do it!

Geoffery: I think Stannis pulls everything out of balance because it’s like, who should I be rooting for here? The true, but grumpy king? Fabulous Dany with her dragons? Samwell Tarly because he’s the best one?


Jon and SamNate:
 Oh god I was just thinking that he’s the only one more boring on the wall than Jon.

[Nathan is incorrect.  Samwell is the best one.]

Nate: Hannah Murray though! Skins UK anyone?

Geoffery: Oh, I think she’s great!

Nate: She is, though. Glad she stuck around. Sam and Jon are a match though. They’re such… boys. The scene where they were talking about sex on top of the wall before the wildling battle at Castle Black. C’mon Sam! You’re about to die!

Geoffery: Is it wrong I just want to go to the Wall with a big vat of soup and mother the Night’s Watch a little? They could all use a hug.  Not Ser Alliser.  But the rest of them.

Nate: They need some mothering up there. Especially Jon. Too soon?

Geoffery: It’s NEVER too soon for a Jon Snuurrr’s mother joke.

Nate: Stannis does pull everything out of balance though. And his ego gets me too because he really thinks he’s responsible for all the other kings dying? Renly, sure but just because he burned some leeches does not mean he pulled the strings to kill Robb and Joffrey.

Geoffery: Leech coincidence!  Which is my new band name. And we haven’t even seen the third leech hit its target. You’re only on A Clash of Kings!  How spoiled do you want to be?

Nate: … good point.

Geoffery: You’ll have to wait and see then *evil laugh*

Nate: Sweet! I’m all for a good death. I don’t think I can handle any more spoilers, to be honest. Some bastard spoiled Joffrey’s death for me before Season Four even aired.

Geoffery: I inadvertently spoiled the books for someone at a fancy dress party by dressing as someone who hasn’t been in the show yet.  And this chap came up to me and told me how great he thought my costume was and I started talking to him about the books and he clearly had no idea who I was actually supposed to be and a little bit horrified when he worked it all out.  Woops!

Nate: Who were you?

Geoffery: {click for spoilers}

Lady Stoneheart

Nate: She better be in the f*cking show I swear to god. Pardon muh French! [Nate has been spoiled on some post-ACOK events, thanks to the internet.]

Geoffery: I know right! After the terrible allergic reaction I suffered after smearing fake blood over my face, the least they can do is honour my efforts on the show. I know some people think she’s pointless but frankly I don’t think GRRM does anything that doesn’t have a point in aSoIaF.  She’s on a mission and it’s gonna have consequences, step up your game D & D!

sansa and LFBack on the subject of other murderous thoughts…

Nate: I hope Sansa kills Littlefinger first though.

Geoffery: I think Sansa will kill Littlefinger but not in a direct, stabby way.  I think she’ll manipulate his death into happening if that makes sense.

 Nate: Oh yeah. That would be how it would go. She’d use what she learned from him against him

Geoffery: Exactly… *smiles evilly*

Nate: She could just push him and Robin through the moon door and ride Nymeria off into the sunset of Braavos to be with her sister and you would not hear me complaining one bit.

Geoffery: That’s what I like to hear!

Nate: I’d love to see Nymeria return.

Geoffery: Oh yes! I’m pretty sure she’s still around which means at some point she’ll be back.

Nate: Yes! Direwolves have been missed.

Miraculously, we got back on topic!

Nate: So, what are your thoughts on the premiere episode?

Geoffery: Generally I liked it.  I mean, it hopped about a fair bit but I didn’t find the pacing as slow as some folks. You?

Nate: Kind of slow. The trailer makes it look like all that sh*t is going to happen in the first episode and Drogon is going to like burn down all off King’s Landing (exaggerating, obviously ) but still, I was a little underwhelmed. Especially the end with the Wall story. If you were going to leave something out, I would’ve done the Wall in ep two and Arya in this one. Especially since the Wall had its own episode last season. (I don’t like the Wall story much.)

Geoffery: Oh, I enjoy the Wall a lot and there’s a lot of stuff for them to set up this year I think.  The Dany stuff I found a bit slow and underwhelming.  Like, the toppling of the statue I thought would be a real moment, an episode ending or summit but it just sort of happened.  Plus her pillow talk with Daario was boring.  And Missandei X Grey Worm?  Blah.  Move on girl, he’s not got a winkie dinkie! And I missed Ser Jorah.

Nate: True that! Dany does get cut a lot, in my opinion. She can’t be all dragons and titties all the time, though. Sh*t will really hit the fan when she and Tyrion meet which I cannot wait for. Varys is such a muckraker I love it. Much more than Littlefinger!  I’m excited for Sansa but much more for Arya. I agree about the statue, It’s time to leave Meereen, I’m bored.

Geoffery: I’m looking forward to Arya next ep, for sure.

Dany3Nate: And I hate that Dany’s so scared of the dragons. You are their mother! And you can’t be burnt! Where’s my khaleesi?!

Geoffery: It’s because Jorah isn’t there to repeat her name earnestly in his lovely voice.

Nate: Pretty much! It’s frustrating though. She’s punishing the wrong dragons as it is and then she’s afraid of the two smaller ones? They won’t eat you! Yay for dragon names! I didn’t realize that was a first. I’m obviously a huge advocate for dragon rights.

Geoffery: Dragons’ Rights Activists, we need that on t-shirts. Oh and I was SO excited when she said the names.

Nate: I loved Varys’ prophecy to Tyrion, also. He HAS to have a huge part in the ultimate war to come. He’s the only “good” Lannister. If he’s even a Lannister…

Geoffery: Secret Targaryen Alert!

Nate: Wouldn’t that be the best f*ck you to Tywin? Especially with the “I am your son. I have always been your son.” Except not really.

Geoffery: Well he did try to tell Tyrion he was, ‘no son of his,’ so…

Nate: Sonofabitch!

Geoffery: It’s all making PERFECT sense now, right?

Nate: Then GRRM writes something that discredits all the fan theories and laughs manically in Sante Fe while we all die inside.

Geoffery: That’s it. That’s how the series ends.

And so does our conversation!

46 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. This is the

      Ice Dragon

      theory I believe in

      https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2yxozf/spoilers_all_yes_there_will_be_an_ice_dragon/

        Quote  Reply

    2. Turri,

      A lot of things are pure speculation and really don’t need spoiler tags. Especially if they turn out to not be true.

      The simple mention of an

      ice dragon, for example, is not a spoiler. Ice dragons are mentioned in the books but not present so far. So it’s completely speculative. It’s also another GRRM book. But when ASOIAF fans flip over mentions of well, everything, that makes it clear that there may be something to a theory an Unsullied mentions. And no, someone theorizing about secret Targaryens is not a spoiler.

      Covering this bit for the books mention.

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    3. I hate to be that guy, I really do but Dany can be burnt, at last in the books. The hatching of the dragons was a one time event and she got out of it unburnt because of the blood magic. Anyway, I have no idea if that’s true for the tv show.

      Don’t take this as a complaint though, I really enjoyed reading your thoughts, I hope you can do it again for future episodes!

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    4. Balerion The Cat,

      He’s talking about the show though, not the books. Dany can’t be burned in the show. She stuck her hands in the flames in season 1 and was jumping in steaming hot baths way before the blood magic.

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    5. This was fun, basically the kinds of conversations I have with friends about the show. I totally agree about ‘previously on’ segments – I know they’re needed for people who don’t follow as closely, but it really tips you off to everyone who will appear in the episode, etc.

      Love the reference to Lloyd Alexander talking about adaptations! The Black Cauldron was my very first experience with a bastardized book adaptation and certainly what turned me into a “the book was better” person for life.

      Will this be a regular post every week? I like it!

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    6. I didn’t really enjoy this…at all. 90% of the conversation was basically crapping on the characters and the show. I didn’t find it particularly funny or written as ‘parody’. If I wanted to read D&D / Stannis / Mel / Littlefinger / SAM?!? hate I’d browse Tumblr tags. Will pass on this ‘feature’ next time it’s posted.

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    7. Hmmm…I thought this was fun and a nice way to get to know L. Geoffrey and Nate. But haters gonna hate…

      As for the “Previously On” segment: I enjoy looking back on some of the scenes and remembering good performances or great story moments involving those characters or the reactions of my Unsullied family at the time of first air. They don’t bug me at all. Lighten up, folks!

      I will read this again. I don’t mind reading dialog. And I find both participants likeable and positive. Cheers to you!

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    8. “I think GRRM has sort of thrown his hands up at the whole show now if I’m honest.”

      Sigh. God I hate that interpretation. It’s usually just wishful thinking by fans that don’t really like the show. There is basically NOTHING to suggest it’s true.

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    9. Actually I seem to recall that Ursula LeGuin was really, REALLY upset about the adaptation of WOES. Like, wrote a public letter telling people how terrible it was upset.

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    10. I get semi-annoyed reading Sullied x Unsullied conversations because most Sullied just can’t seem to help themselves being spoilery even when they try. The only time it’s worked for me at all is GOO (Mycah, you are a saint).

      Anyway welcome to the team Nate! Try not to get spoiled!

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    11. I’ve seen the criticism that Dany should’t be scared because she’s fireproof elsewhere too. She’s not teeth or claw proof people! Those dragons are huge and vicious!

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    12. “Geoffery: I think he’s probably done with it, I just get that feeling.”
      I get the strong feeling that D&D are done with GRRM! 🙂 They are forging ahead with no looks back. But, yes, someday, there could be a film with GRRM directing and producing, which book purists would love with no criticisms whatsoever………

      Balerion The Cat: I hate to be that guy, I really do but Dany can be burnt, at last in the books. The hatching of the dragons was a one time event and she got out of it unburnt because of the blood magic. Anyway, I have no idea if that’s true for the tv show.

      This is brought up again and again. The books are NOT the TV show. In the show, Daenerys was not burnt when baby dragons burnt Pyat Pree to a crisp. That was as clear a sign as any that at least she is immune to dragonfire, even if she can, possibly, be burnt by ordinary fire. Plus all the instances of her in Season 1 touching hot eggs, bathing in scalding water, etc. It’s well established in the show.

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    13. Aisling: I thought the same thing. It made me wonder why someone who doesn’t really like the show would be chosen to recap the show.

      Listen I love the show, and I get the same vibe from GRRM sometimes from things he’s said. You can suspect that GRRM isn’t thrilled with some parts of the show or doesn’t like it much but isn’t allowed to say because of contracts, and still like the show yourself. The world is not so black and white. Pardon the timely pun.

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    14. mau:
      I didn’t like this. Too much bookpuritanism for me. It felt almost like westeros.org.

      I didn’t agree with everything the persons having the discussion said but concede that they are free to say what they feel (as indeed are you). I think a lot depends on how courteous people are and I didn’t detect any rudeness in the above article. I get fed up when I read things like “The books are better than the show – people who like the show are dim” (not saying anybody has actually used those words but there have been some comments rather like that – not necessarily on this website). I don’t mind so much things like “I prefer the books; I would encourage people to read them because there are some intriguing minor characters and sub-plots that have been cut from the TV adaptation because of time constraints”. I like both versions (or I have so far) – I will reserve judgement until broadcasting of series 5 has concluded as to whether I like the way the TV show goes this year.

        Quote  Reply

    15. I enjoyed reading your dialogue, Nate and Geoffery.

      I took nothing you said as crapping on the characters and show. While I’m a book reader, I’m a big fan and admirer of D&D’s adaptation.

      I was also happy to read someone feels the same way about Stannis as I. He is by far one of my least favorite characters in both the books and the show (having nothing to do with Dillane’s work, he’s great, I just don’t like the character). I suppose he represents to me the kind of person who drives me nuts in real life: rigid, self-righteous, and as with all people, imo, who are overly self-righteous, a hypocrite. He sees himself as so honorable, and judges the honor of others, yet he killed his brother the way he did. Had he killed Renly on the field of battle, no problem, but that’s not what he did.

      Anyway, welcome to the Wall, once again.

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    16. Sue the Fury,

      When most of the discussion is criticism (about the show and how awful the characters are), it does not give the impression that these writers “still love the show”. I didn’t read “love for the show” in this. That’s my personal feeling after reading this.

      I have my own positive and negative opinions about the books vs show and the characters, but when I watch or discuss it with friends the majority of the discussion is not negative. I don’t have a problem with specific things that they said necessarily, but put them all together and it gives me a negative vibe.

        Quote  Reply

    17. Sue the Fury,

      Geoffery: I think GRRM has sort of thrown his hands up at the whole show now if I’m honest.

      Yeah, I think he probably enjoys it but doesn’t see it as an accurate representation of his books

      I think he’s probably done with it, I just get that feeling.

      I don’t think GRRM does anything that doesn’t have a point in aSoIaF. She’s on a mission and it’s gonna have consequences, step up your game D & D!

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    18. Dame of Mercia,

      Oh, don’t get me wrong, I don’t think that they were rude or something like that, but I just don’t like to read anything about the books when we are discussing the show.

      I just don’t see point in that.

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    19. I totally get that opinions aren’t universal. Not everyone has to like what I like. But the pure Stannis hate… It sticks in my craw. So many in this fandom absolutely love Stannis, myself included. He has a massive contingent of loyal fans. Maybe it’s because he’s the underdog. Maybe it’s due to his wicked sense of humor. Maybe it’s because the guy just absolutely will not quit. I’m always taken aback when I read opinions like Nate’s. Hopefully he’ll see the light someday.

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    20. I quite like the idea behind this concept, and it’s the sort of item that is likely to improve as the two writers get to know each other. There were some good parts in this, and some that weren’t so good, but this is the very first of this item, so I think it’s only fair to bear that in mind. This site already has the more typical reviews, so I think it’s nice to have something different. I look forward to seeing this again in the following weeks.

      I don’t really wish to dwell on the negative points, but I don’t get the impression that GRRM has disowned the show at all. In fact I would be very surprised if he didn’t write one more script for them again. I can’t see him not wanting to write a script for the final season. It will be too hard for him to resist, I think, and I do get the impression he enjoys it. If he has finished TWOW, I think it would be great if he gets to write two, or maybe have a greater input.

      As I said though, I enjoyed this feature, and with a bit of work, and experience, it could be even better!

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    21. This reminded me a bit of Mike and Tom Eat Snacks. It definitely shows promise to be interesting going forward.

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    22. I’ve always thought that Dany might be a little *more* immune to fire on the show, but I don’t think that she’s completely immune outside of that blood magic instance when the dragons hatched. Maybe they’re going with totally immune and it just isn’t clear yet, but it’d be kind of a stretch, I think.

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    23. Just wanted to add: I think you guys should do one of these again. Maybe make it a regular thing. I like the idea of a free-form conversation as you rewatch an episode. You are bound to annoy Stannis-fans or Dany-fans or Sam-fans or whatever week by week. But that’s okay. The idea/concept of this article is definitely worthwhile. Looking forward to more.

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    24. Sunfyre,

      Yes, lots of people love Stannis, and then there are those who don’t. I’m one of the ones who don’t, as I stated above. I think that’s just a testament to the story, though, both the one on the pages and the one on the screen. Different characters resound with different people for different reasons. Arya is one of my favorite characters, yet there are people who can’t stand her. That’s fine by me. Difference of opinion can make it all the more interesting.

        Quote  Reply

    25. mau: I don’t think GRRM does anything that doesn’t have a point in aSoIaF. She’s on a mission and it’s gonna have consequences, step up your game D & D!

      This bothered me too. Just because things have consequences doesn’t make them good, neither does things having a point. Points can be bad, and GRRM is not perfect as this makes it sound.

      I think it was a cheap twist that had had almost no consequences for 2 books. Cutting it was D&D stepping up their game. YMMV of course, but that just came across like hero worship of GRRM

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    26. I really enjoyed the conversation and would like to see more – just one small suggestion though. Think it would be better if you stuck more to comments on the show you are watching. For example, would have enjoyed comments on the young Cersei scene.

        Quote  Reply

    27. Sunfyre,

      No worries. 🙂

      Depending on how they turn out, I have a feeling I may be sticking up for the Sand Snakes a lot. I really liked them in the books, and one of the things I may be most looking forward to in TWOW is to see what mischief they get up to. Given I know there are some who are less than pleased they even made it into the show, I may end up being one of the cheerleaders for Team Sand Snakes.

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    28. I didn’t really like this… I can’t explain it – I just felt kind of annoyed reading it…
      Oh well, maybe it’s just me.

      If they do another one sometime, I will give it another chance.

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    29. The “rape” scene everyone loves to refer to was not meant as rape. Several actors and people who work on the show have commented that it was not meant to come across as rape, it was meant to come across as a fucked up relationship, Cersei wanted him but at the same time didn’t want to get caught or do it in front of Joff, it was bad timing but it’s meant as mutual and highlights how fucked up their relationship is. They definitely should not have had her say no numerous times in the show because that’s the part that causes people to think rape. Fact is, it was not meant as rape and Cersei wanted it from her brother.

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    30. Thank you for the positive feedback! And even more so the constructive criticisms, it will help in making this a better segment for everyone. I really enjoyed doing this with Geoffrey and hope to again in the future!

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    31. I enjoyed the piece! I’m sure they’ll improve with time as well, to those who had complaints. First time writing together, so, cut them some slack readers!

      My only disagreement was the statement that Tyrion is the only good Lannister. Everyone has their opinion but 1. Jaime needs some recognition here and 2. all characters in ASOIAF are both good and evil pretty much (Joff and Ramsay aside). Tyrion has his moments of being shitty too.. and well, even queen biatch Cersei loves her children, her one redeeming quality, that and her cheekbones 😉

      Looking forward to the next one Lady G and Nate!

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    32. I really wanted to enjoy this article. It’s a great concept and I hope you guys can find a way to fine tune it. Unfortunately, the way it is right now seems very inexperienced and does not flow very well. However, I do think that you two have potential to have some great future posts. To be quite honest, the best thought-provoking conversations that I have seen about the show are between Wimsey, Luka Nieto, and Hodor’s Bastard. They tend to focus on facts, and ideas that can stem from them. They are constructive, but try not to dwell on the negatives too much or about GRRM’s personal life. It’s just my personal opinion, but those are the types of interesting conversations I like to read on here.

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    33. People saying there is no evidence of GRRM “throwing his hands up in the air at the show” have some big-time blinders on.

      * The last two sample chapters released have been seemingly put out to make sure the public knows HE chose the characters’ paths, not D&D

      * The obvious decision not to write an episode this season. (And Sorry, Jeb, but there is no way he is writing on the final season, certainly not TWO episodes. If he’s not in the loop for this season, as many feel, he will most definitely be out of the loop in two more years. )

      * In the last 3 weeks, he has posted virtually nothing on his Not A Blog about the show. I realize he’s been blogging about the Hugos and what not, but compare to other seasons, when he’s been on there hyping up various aspects of the show, and now, zero.

      Not saying I have proof of any fighting or bitterness or anything, I’m just saying that to say there is “No evidence”, is patently false.

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    34. Guys, guys, guys.

      Thanks for all the feedback! The positive stuff is lovely, the constructive stuff is great and the negative stuff…well, it’s a big old internet out there and you can’t like it all! But I’m not sure where this impression I dislike the show came from, I love it! Some changes from the books I love, others I’m not so keen on, but they’re two different beasties and I’m fine with that.

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