Sources report: Jodhi May joins the cast of Game of Thrones

Jodhi MayThere’s been a great deal of excitement in the Game of Thrones fan world over the show finally including flashbacks. With the casting of Nell Williams as young Cersei, viewers are now able to put a face to one of the flashback characters and with information from WatchersOnTheWall sources, we’re able to fill out the rest of the scene.

Our sources have told us that English actress Jodhi May will be playing the role of Maggy the Frog in season 5.

Maggy the Frog is a mysterious figure whose brief presence in young Cersei’s life makes a long-lasting impression.

In addition, we can also confirm through our sources another actress who will be joining May and Williams in the flashback sequence.

Isabella Steinbarth. Buttercup Agency.

Photo: Buttercup Agency.

We’ve learned Isabella Steinbarth will be playing young Cersei’s brunette friend. Given that this is for the Maggy the Frog scene, it seems likely that the thirteen-year-old actress will be playing an equivalent of the book character Melara Hetherspoon.

Steinbarth’s casting was rumored some time ago but her role was unknown at that point. Her agency also announced her casting in the show a couple months ago, stating that the actress “is featured in Episode 1 of Season 5.”

Entertainment Weekly previously confirmed that season 5 was expected to open with a flashback sequence.  Steinbarth appearing in episode 1 is in line with that report.

HBO has not officially confirmed the castings at this time.

170 responses

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    1. hmmmmmm Jodhi May seems a little too young for the role of Maggy, I always imagined Maggy as a really old hideous hag.

      and Isabella has a really innocent face, while I always imagined her to be more bold looking and prettier than Cersei. she’s the Taena Merryweather of Cersei’s childhood imo (obviously without the sexual stuff tho lol).

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    2. She doesn’t have to be super-old to be ugly. I’m sure hair and make-up can turn her into a hideous witch. And she looks like she can scowl for Westeros.

      I did picture young Melara as more bold and duplicitous-looking though.

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    3. ANGRYGOTFAN:
      HODOR

      NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

      MAGGY IS SQUAT AND WARTY WITH CRUSTY YELLOW EYES NO TEETH AND PALE GREEN JOWLS!!!NOT SOME SOME STARBUCKY WHITE GIRL WITH UGGS AND SNARKY LEGGINGS NOOO!!!

      Why can’t people understand?

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    4. The casting call for Maggy was 35-65 so clearly the show wasn’t particularly into the crone idea. There’s not a real need for Maggy to be a certain age in the show, particularly since

      there’s unlikely to be any connection to Talisa/Jeyne Westerling on GoT.

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    5. A Girl Will Obey:
      I did picture young Melara as more bold and duplicitous-looking though.

      Melara was an innocuous little girl that

      Cersei reimagined as some sort of backstabber in order to justify her murdering her.

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    6. First thought was that isn’t how Maegy looks in the books at all.

      Second thought was that

      Maegy is related to Jeyne Westerling (grandmother, right?) and this actress looks a bit like Talisa/Oona Chaplin.

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    7. aurane waters,

      I think her main beef was that

      Melara fancied Jaime. Her knowing about Maggy’s prophecy was just more wood for the fire!

      Not sure why the needed to age her down but apparently they seem to change a lot of roles to fit into a 20-40 age bracket. Personally , I wasn’t keen on the flashback stuff anyway so at this point I just hope it’s short.

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    8. Oh, I absolutely loved Jodhi in BBC’s “Tipping the Velvet” (which I highly recommend!), she was so lovely and wonderful as Florence!
      Wow… and now I’m going to see her playing Maggy the Frog O_o
      Looking forward to her performance!

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    9. Jordan,

      Agreed. I saw the picture before really reading who the casting was for and immediately thought “damn, she’s a dead ringer for Talisa. Is someone going to run into her family in Volantis?”

      Hard to imagine how the two might be connected in the show, though, unless Maggie is mentioned as being from Volantis and we’re left to connect the dots ourselves.

      Either way, YAYY more casting news!

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    10. A Girl Will Obey,

      Yes, I’m sure they’ll ugly her up. If she’s keeping the nickname “the frog” they’ll have to justify it somehow.

      In the scene in the books Melara is

      the one who is hesitant to go and then wants to GTFO before the prophecy is finished. Between the two of them Cercei is definitely the ringleader.

        Quote  Reply

    11. Blind Beth,

      Cool. Glad someone else thought the same way.

      Incidentally, although I don’t really get a sense that Martin is familiar with/inspired by the medium, Maegy’s book description is kind of in line with a common anime trope wherein elderly characters are drawn as ridiculously short and wizened.

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    12. Great little scoop. I knew we would find out who Mggy was sooner or later. Jodhi seems a good choice for the role, and it hardly matters what she looks like normally, as she will have a lot of make-up on anyway. Yes, I thought they would go older, but it hardly matters anyway, and I’d rather they cast the best actress for the role, rather than go out of their way for an older actress who isn’t quite as good.

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    13. I am getting the feeling (because of the Talisa effect) that D&D are going to up the ante of this “flashback scene” quite a bit. I don’t think the outlook is sunny for M & M.

      Will they even use the “v” word in the show?

        Quote  Reply

    14. I haven’t seen too much of Jodhi May’s previous work, but looking over her IMDB page, she’s got a strong resume. I’m confident that she’ll do a good job as Maggy.

      The makeup department will probably be involved … but in my opinion, Maggy’s appearance is absolutely irrelevant the character’s purpose in the story. The fact that Ms. May is an attractive woman in her late thirties rather than a hideous elderly crone has absolutely no bearing on her ability to capably handle this small role. What matters is that she’s mysterious and convincing enough to leave a lasting impression on both Cersei and the audience. I’m sure that Ms. May nailed that aspect of her audition, or she wouldn’t have gotten the part.

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    15. Hodor’s Bastard,

      You mean that you expect

      Cersei to kill both of them,

      right?

      Well, in one of those cases, that’s in the source material.

      I think it unlikely though-

      I mean you expect chidl Cersei to kill two people with her bare hands (possibly aided by a handy well). Do you think Maegy would wait for her “turn” while Cersei was busy killing Melara?

      I’d personally suspect the opposite actually-

      I don’t expect Maegy to be killed and if anything (given that Cersei is more sympathetic in the show), I’d expact Melara to be spared.

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    16. I for one hope the show will not delve into the whole “old ugly crone” cliché… why do they always have to be old and ugly ?

      I hope Ms May will not have tons of make-up. It would be even better if she manages creepy and haunting without even needing to be uglified.

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    17. The Maggy casting will be fine. Throw her in makeup for three hours, bam, you got an old crone. Here’s something that does concern me, I haven’t found a single website confirming the return of Kevan Lannister. Does anyone know differently?

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    18. Jordan,

      It all depends on how they want to further characterize Cersei,

      especially as we witness her “spiral” throughout this season (hopefully). What is Cersei truly capable of, with either someone who bodes ill of her or an innocent friend? It will set the macabre/self-serving tone for her season’s arc, imho.

      Perhaps Melara isn’t so innocent either….?

      Maybe she gets Orson to do the deed? Khuu-Khuu-Khuu! 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    19. Suddenly, I’m having trouble with the spoiler tags.

      I really want to hear her say, “And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.” And then millions of Unsullied will wonder what “valonqar” means.

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    20. Hodor’s Bastard,

      That’s true, but I just don’t see how Cersei would (in terms of physical effort, not morality) be able to

      kill both her friend AND Maegy

      – which I took to be your suggestion.

      I mean I suppose she could just

      order guards to kill them both

      , but that would go against the fact that in the book no one knows what happened there except for Cersei (and it just seems kind of illogical anyway).

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    21. Jordan,

      Yes…(I updated my response above)…and I agree that it is Cersei’s secret, which has remained a secret (even to Jaime) for all these years. I’m interested in how this will play out though and serve Cersei’s arc throughout the season

      especially with the events leading to and during her walk! Will she see Maggy and Melara in the crowd, as well as Tywin, Tyrion, etc….?? Should be great (unsettling) fun!

        Quote  Reply

    22. ANGRYGOTFAN,
      Have you watched the American Horror Story series this season (Freakshow)? The woman who played (with great emotion and realism) the pin head woman looks NOTHING like the character she plays. That is what makeup, costume and acting are all about.

        Quote  Reply

    23. I’m excited! I hope she does a great job! I’ll reserve judgement until we see her in action, who knows what she will look like on screen (not that it’s super important in this case).

      Hodor’s Bastard

      Cersei could get angry with Maggy and kill her, then kill the witness Melara if you really want them both dead…

      mariamb

      I am very curious whether they will use the exact text, or if they will change “valonqar” into “the little brother” or something similar. I don’t want to get “Your sister”ed again, but in this case I can see why it might confuse unsullied viewers if there isn’t a chance to explain the high valyrian vocabulary.

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    24. One thing worth bearing in mind is that child Cersei is an even more unreliable witness than adult Cersei. To someone that age, anyone over 30 probably looks like an old crone. The hideousness of Maggy is probably exaggerated in her memory as well, as befits the sinister role she plays in Cersei’s childhood.

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    25. Jaime’s girl,

      Yeah…

      I guess it is not about the “killing” to me but more about Cersei’s severe reaction to whatever MtF says. I just believe that D&D will offer something a bit more macabre than what we expect…especially since the Spicer family does not matter in the show and the possible grotesque foreshadowing MtF’s words may offer. Cersei is so fucked up.

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    26. Hoot,

      lol nah. cersei greatly lack self-awareness and is terrible judge of people but she’s always been on point about characters as far as their appearance is concerned. she hates maragery and sansa too but still admits that they’re beautiful. she just finds lannisters features to be more unique than tully or tyrell features though, only targaryen features eclipse lannister features in her mind as she admits that Rhaegar is more beautiful than Jaime (which is also kind of admitting that Dany is more beautiful than her)…….which is one of the reasons why I think Dany is the younger more beautiful queen.

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    27. Cersei killing Maggy on the show would be ridiculously OTT, she’ll probably do the same thing that she does in the books-throw acid in her eyes and run away.

        Quote  Reply

    28. Jaime’s girl,

      Agree. I would prefer not to be “Your sister’ed” again either.

      Maybe Maggy says “valonqar” and Cersei – or Melara – will ask what that word means. Maggy explains and Cersei freaks out. I’m really curious if we will see her toss Melara down the well…or at least leave it open to interpretation.

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    29. Sue the Fury:
      The casting call for Maggy was 35-65 so clearly the show wasn’t particularly into the crone idea. There’s not a real need for Maggy to be a certain age in the show, particularlysince

      WTF Hollywood? I’m a little traumatized that if I were an actress I’d be old enough to audition for an old hag part in four months.

        Quote  Reply

    30. Ned,

      Nothing confirmed, aside from some unconfirmed reports from Dubrovnik. I personally trust those reports; I think he’ll be back.

        Quote  Reply

    31. Regarding Kevan: I wouldn’t mind if he came back but I don’t think he’s necessary.

      He’s mainly featured in Feast and Dance so he can be killed. He’s killed so that there can be even more discord in the Lannister camp and so that Cersei will start going after the Tyrells again. All this can be accomplished by just killing Pycelle who’s well known to the audience. Unlike Kevan who was only noticed by book readers. Pycelle may not be a family member, but he is a firm ally to the Lannisters and Cersei will take his murder personally.

      I get why fans want Kevan there but it’s understandable that the show will take any opportunity they can to streamline things.

        Quote  Reply

    32. mariamb,

      joint effort with Hodor’s bastard and yourself 🙂

      But seriously that was one of those petty moments when I thought, D&D.. wtf.. would it have killed you to say “Only Cat”? I mean she was only killed at the red wedding 8 episodes before and was one of the most prominent characters, I doubt most of the unsullied audience forgot her name.. ::letting it go::
      If they switch out “valonqar” I won’t blame them

        Quote  Reply

    33. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

      I’m not so sure. I agree someone else can stand in for Kevan, definitely, but maybe not someone as unlikeable to the audience as Pycelle. Also I don’t think the audience would be able to be concerned Pycelle can turn things around for the Lannisters the way Kevan has the potential to as a respectable voice. I’m not sure who to offer as a better candidate though…

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    34. I just came by to say I got my giveaway stuff today! It’s awesome. Thanks WOTW! Oh, and episode 2 of the TellTale game is out tomorrow! Woohoooo! Good day.

        Quote  Reply

    35. Jaime’s girl:
      haha did we just invent a meme? getting “Your sister”ed?

      I still don’t understand the backlash that this change got. It is so minor and irrelevant that it changed nothing. I have no issue getting “Your sister”ed again. PS that last sentence sounds dirty in my head. I mean no disrespect to you or you sister if you have one.

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    36. Randa Noyce,

      The trailer for episode 2 is out tomorrow. The game will be released next Tuesday (Telltale always release trailers of an episode a week before the episode gets released).
      Either way, I’m very excited for the trailer too! 😀

        Quote  Reply

    37. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

      I don’t think he is necessary either.

      Not sure that they need to bring him back just to kill him a few episodes later. If he comes back, he will need to be given the necessary screen time to establish him as the “normal, decent” Lannister. Alternatively, I’m not sure that Pycelle’s murder carries enough significance to create the desired distrust between the Lannisters and the Tyrells. Over at Westeros, there is some speculation that Olenna will be killed instead. I think that this speculation stems from reports of Diana Rigg shooting scenes in Croatia.

      Jaime’s girl,

      That was a WTF moment for me, too. Being a book reader is a curse sometimes. No matter how hard I try to separate book from show, there are still those moments when I expect to hear/see something from the books (“Only Cat”, Tysha). And then when it happens differently, I am disappointed. Having said that, I better hear “Vengeance. Justice. Fire and Blood” this season.

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    38. Jaime’s girl,

      Well, we are talking about the show that introduced “Valar morghulis” in S2, didn’t (unless my memory betrays me) explain what it meant until S3, and then made it the tagline for S4.

        Quote  Reply

    39. Hodor’s Bastard,

      So true! No honestly I wasn’t very upset because I understood the change, bigger impact, and also I’m sure there are still viewers who don’t understand that Tywin planned the whole RW and Jaime had nothing to do with it (I’ve spoken to some!) so in the name of Jaime’s redemption arc, I’m ok with not confusing them further 😉

      mariamb,

      Agreed! I’m excited for Doran’s scenes 🙂 So so glad they cast Alexander Siddig, I’m sure he will be a fantastic Doran!

        Quote  Reply

    40. Of the Night: I still don’t understand the backlash that this change got. It is so minor and irrelevant that it changed nothing.

      Indeed, this is really silly. X=Y in this case. The difference is that because X=Y hadn’t been shown in a year, and because she’s remembered by everyone as Y and possibly forgotten to be X by some of the viewers, Y is the term that they should use.

      Otherwise, some viewers thing that Baelish is admitting to potentially painful beastiality urges….

      Ditto this for the Valyrian. Just tell us what the phrase is then and there. The riddle is in the translation, not the Valyrian. Having someone translate it later just adds unnecessary dialog.

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    41. ANGRYGOTFAN,

      When I first saw Gwendoline Christie’s photo after she was cast as Brienne, I was aghast, thinking “This is not our brave, ugly, heart-of-gold warrior! Ms. Christie is far too pretty to play Brienne the Beauty.”

      Makeup, lighting, and costuming can do SO MUCH more than we believe.

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    42. Perry,

      no, it was much more about the

      prophecy. the fact that she had a crush on jaime angered cersei but that’s not why she killed her.

        Quote  Reply

    43. Of the Night,

      I agree. I certainly understand why book-readers would have preferred “only Cat,” but as far as the show goes, it seems to me (and I could certainly be wrong about this) she was usually referred to as Lady Stark, Lady Catelyn, or Catelyn, and rarely referred to as simply Cat. Given that, I can see why the line was changed, as that moment happened so quickly, they probably didn’t want the audience to wonder, “who’s Cat.” That may be underestimating the audience, I don’t know, but that’s what i think.

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    44. Wimsey,

      Funny, I thought that in the first season, Vary’s innuendo during a conversation with LF, was that he knows that LF is the man that prefers to have sex with fresh corpses of beautiful woman.

      BTW: Ms. May is a very kissable frog.

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    45. Sue the Fury:
      Incidentally, Jodhi May is a damned good actress.

      She is indeed. She was excellent last year in a UK standalone TV film “Common” playing the mother of a boy who was implicated in a murder though he was actually innocent. (Michelle Fairley was in the same programme). She is younger than I imagined book Maggie but as other commenters have said, make-up can do wonders.

        Quote  Reply

    46. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      Of the Night,

      I agree.I certainly understand why book-readers would have preferred “only Cat,” but as far as the show goes, it seems to me (and I could certainly be wrong about this) she was usually referred to as Lady Stark, Lady Catelyn, or Catelyn, and rarely referred to as simply Cat.Given that, I can see why the line was changed, as that moment happened so quickly, they probably didn’t want the audience to wonder, “who’s Cat.”That may be underestimating the audience, I don’t know, but that’s what i think.

      Exactly. This has to be the most overblown Nerd Rage Moment of the decade.

      That and the whole Tysha thing.

        Quote  Reply

    47. I received my prizes today! Awesome. Thank you WotW and Dark Horse.

      Now I think I will use the Amazon gift cards I received for Christmas and buy some more GOT stuff! I didn’t realize before now Dark Horse sold their items through Amazon. I’m gonna need an extra shelf for GOT stuff.

      Am I the only who saves the Ommegang GOT bottles even though they’re empty? It’ s probably tacky, but what the hell.

        Quote  Reply

    48. Darkstar:
      Am I the only who saves the Ommegang GOT bottles even though they’re empty? It’ s probably tacky, but what the hell.

      I save the corks and use the bottles for target practice with my slingshot.

      —-

      Also, I got my Lannister mug and patch yesterday too! Coffee tastes great today. I did ROAR quite loudly! Thx, WotW & DH!

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    49. why has no reporter or fan asked D&D or Nina Gold anything about Euron, Vic, Young Griff, Old griff, arianne, lsh, darkstar, aurane waters, the kettleblacks, trystane, aerion, val, dalla, wyman manderly, that green haired chick related to manderly, septa lemore, satin, coldhands, the kindly man, brown ben plumm, penny, pennys pig, or any of the other characters that have been cut that i cant think of….OH AND MOQORRO and the dusky woman!?! lol

        Quote  Reply

    50. Nymeria Warrior Queen: That may be underestimating the audience, I don’t know, but that’s what i think.

      You are not underestimating them. On TV or movies, characters are “tagged” by the face of the actor/actress who played them, not by their names. General terms (“your mother” or “your sister”) actually will do a better job of bringing the face to mind because that connects one face to another face.

      People will remember faces for a while, even if they forget the names that go with them. (Just think about how often that happens in everyday life!) So, if something crazy happened in the show, like Michele Fairley’s or Richard Madden’s characters coming back to life, then people would be much quicker to associate the faces with the character than the name.

      This actually can be a problem in book series, too, when multiple months (or years) elapse between a prequel and a sequel. Even though the name is the “tag” in books, if an author just throws out a name with no re-development, then a lot of readers will be confused as to who the character is. I think that was why I gave up on the Robert Jordan series: at some book or another, I read three chapters without having a clue who anybody was, and that was pretty much it for me. (Of course, the fact that the series degenerated into an aimless collection of storyless plots didn’t help, either.)

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    51. mariamb,

      We will always have the “v” word! No one can take it away from us!

      Our precious. We wants it. Filthy little hobbitses…

      (Sorry. Couldn’t be helped!)

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    52. GeekFurious:
      A dream sequence that lasts less than a minute has been elevated to ridiculous status…

      Agreed. There are far too many people in this thread thanking the site for the items they received as part of the contest. Wait. I honestly can’t tell what’s going on in your post. You didn’t reply or quote a post or provide any detail on what you are pissing about.

      But you did put ellipses on your post so I know it’s important.

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    53. Hodor’s Bastard: all of us have a little bit of Penny inside us…

      No, some of us really don’t….

      🙂

      Seriously, Penny can go take a chair with Fatty Bolger and Ludo Bagman. Now, I could have seen much more potential in Val: but they did Jon & Ygritte too well too recently for it work; indeed, I wonder if book Val would have worked for me if I’d read that days after reading Ygritte’s death instead of over a decade later.

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    54. Darkstar: Am I the only who saves the Ommegang GOT bottles even though they’re empty? It’ s probably tacky, but what the hell.

      No, I do it too. They’re pretty.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Wimsey:
      Seriously, Penny can go take a chair with Fatty Bolger and Ludo Bagman….

      Hey! No soup for you!

      Also, I know what you mean….but Val was in ASoS….just not gloriously, deliciously, adventurously, and gorgeously depicted as she was in ADwD. 😉

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    56. Wimsey:
      Now, I could have seen much more potential in Val: but they did Jon & Ygritte too well too recently for it work; indeed, I wonder if book Val would have worked for me if I’d read that days after reading Ygritte’s death instead of over a decade later.

      Personally, I’ve read Storm and Dance within a few months and Jon/Val felt perfectly right to me in the sense that I do not feel yet that there is a story there. Yes there are elements (but mostly Val crushing on him, Jon never really considers her seriously), but whatever happens in Winds will be revealing. So far, for me, the Jon/Val relationship is what to be expected from a man who lost a lover some weeks (even months) before.

      And I’m really curious if Jon will ever reach a point were he can allow himself to think about love again.

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    57. Hodor’s Bastard,
      If you want to try to take my soup away, well, then be my guest…..

      Arkash: So far, for me, the Jon/Val relationship is what to be expected from a man who lost a lover some weeks (even months) before.

      Yeah, what I thought that Martin did very well a situation that most of us have been in before at one point or another: not recognizing that you are attracted to someone because you are still hung up on your ex! The problem that arises for audiences is that it’s too easy for third parties to say “it’s too soon!” (particularly) when the heartbreak is due to death.

      Arkash: And I’m really curious if Jon will ever reach a point were he can allow himself to think about love again.

      I think that it would take a really hot aunt or something like that. 🙂

      TheTouchOfFrost: You leave Fatty alone!

      Hah! We all know that Martin completely ripped Sam Tarly off of Fatty Except for the parts he ripped off from Sam Gamgee. Or Jabba the Hut.

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    58. I DEMAND an actress that really has no teeth to be cast because it must follow the books exactly and to HELL with whether or not I can understand the very important prophesy that she speaks on television!

      Seriously, she looks tremendously Oonaish and very experienced/talented. Huzzah as usual to Nina Gold!

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    59. Wimsey:

      I think that it would take a really hot aunt or something like that.

      Not a fan of that theory. Between Val and Mel, there are already Ice and Fire women lurking around Jon. Does he really needs a third one ?
      Personally, I’m quite fond of the Mel / Val contrast, especially what regards has Jon towards them and I’m curious if the story will ever reach a point where that could potentially be developed.

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    60. Arkash: Does he really needs a third one ?

      Somehow, I don’t think she’ll be a third!

      Besides, I look forward to reading sequels starring their daughter, Lukewarm Water.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Not familiar with the actress, but glad with the inclusion of the character and flashback in the show and have no concern with her age.

      I would expect “valonquar” to be changed and will not be upset about it when it occurs. Never minded the “Your sister” thing.

      As for Kevan…

      I hope they include him. There has been some speculation out there that a picture of an unidentified man in certain King Landings shots is a recasted version of him.

      Replacing him with Pycelle doesn’t make any sense since people won’t be able to take Pycelle seriously in the show, and Kevan’s role is to provide order to things after the debacle that Cersei caused.

      Likewise replacing him with Olenna doesn’t make sense because of the Tyrell – Lannister conflict. A big part of why Cersei messes things up so bad is because she doesn’t want the Tyrells in a position of power. I have a hard time seeing the Lannisters let that happen.

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    62. I’m disappointed Maggy won’t be a scary stereotype, but I google imaged Jodhi (great spelling) and no 3 pictures look alike which is what I would expect from a serious actor, including the lengthy resume. Not sure if I didn’t know or just forgot about the Westerling connection. Now I’m curious. I think The Red Woman used the love potion on Selyse.

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    63. Jodhi May will be playing the role of Maggy the Frog?! Well, she certainly has the acting chops, but she’s going to spend a lot of time in the makeup chair to look like Maggy. I’m a fan of her work, but she’s ridiculously attractive…

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    64. Jaime’s girl:
      ….I wasn’t very upset because I understood the change, bigger impact….understand that Tywin planned the whole RW and Jaime had nothing to do with it, so in the name of Jaime’s redemption arc, I’m ok with not confusing them further…

      If I may respond to something slightly OT (I’ll use spoiler tags to protect the innocent…although no one is innocent here…):

      Speaking of Jaime’s “redemption arc” (with which I don’t agree but for the sake of discussion I’ll go with it), I wanted to point out how that infamous change, as uttered by Roose, predicted that LS on GoT had been discarded by D&D early on (when S3 was being scripted).

      — As you stated, “The Lannisters send their regards” created a TV moment that pitted family vs family to the viewing audience, leading to wider more-daunting effects of war.

      — BUT “Jaime Lannister sends his regards” was an isolated phrase meant only for Robb and especially Cat. Roose hated what Robb had done (Jeyne/Talisa, Karstark, etc) but he hated more that Robb listened to Cat. So by saying “Jaime…” he was actually speaking to Cat as he gutted Robb. He wanted to hurt Cat the most by his words before she died. Everything Cat had done in Robb’s trust, especially freeing Jaime, now came back to haunt her final moments. It didn’t matter if Tywin gave the order, this was Roose at his most evil.

      — Furthermore, as she died in the show, Cat no longer could focus her chaotic anger on a single entity. Roose’s words in the show (“The Lannisters…”) spoke of war between families not of vows being broken. If she lived (or returned), Cat had no reason to seek out Jaime or kill Freys for that matter, as in the book. Even the threat of killing Walder’s young wife and his “I’ll find another” response completely discarded Cat’s fury, made the murder of Walder’s wife almost insignificant, and further distanced her killers from any macabre consequence. At least, in the book, Cat’s killing of an innocent child had a dark, foreboding (and consequential) effect to it. But in the show, all we had was her scream at the end…no mental breakdown and discombobulation associated with her final moments that intentionally fostered (and festered into) a dark, disturbed energy. (…although MF’s final scream was indeed haunting….)

      — Hence, no LS is needed in the show. The focus on Jaime is lifted and Jaime can go about his business in Dorne or whatever, to pursue whatever mass appeal “redemption arc” is awaiting him. GRRM intentionally kept Jaime in the riverlands vicinity in AFfC/ADwD because he was ultimately being targeted by LS, but as many have stated before, with no LS he can go elsewhere, which may be an ultimate Sullied spoiler regarding the pending status of Brienne/LS or it may simply be conservation of plot.

      — In the book, Cat maintained her disgust of Jon (more likely the idea of Jon) to the bitter end. In the show, she showed remorse and regret regarding her treatment of Jon before her dire end. LS was designed with no such possibility of remorse or hope as show!Cat displayed. LS emulates the spirit of hate and vengeance and insanity.

      [There are some other factors as well]

      — Grey Wind had no heroic effect either in the show. Shot dead with no fight. As with Nymeria, direwolves are just pets in the show, with no mystical effect tied to Stark preservation.

      — D&D brought in Mel to learn from Thoros so she could move forward with the power to revive Jon at some point (I’m convinced of this). A Red Priest transferred the power to another Red Priest(ess) rather than unBeric giving life to another unXXX. Beric was described as a fading one-trick pony for Thoros.

      — No discussion in KL or elsewhere of Freys/Lannisters being killed or attacked in the riverlands by wolfpack or by BwB. No urgency to bring the BwB back, no LS. No Chekhov shit (except the Mel bit). As Wimsey would state, Beric, Thoros & Co were foils that served their purpose for Arya and the Hound (and Mel).

      In summary, I found it fascinating that a single, simple change in the wording of a well-known catch phrase has discarded the entire riverlands relevance and related arcs and has allowed GoT to pursue the largest plot departure thus far (perhaps, besides the missing Greyjoys) from the source material. I will most definitely scrutinize TWoW (when/if it arrives) on this possible Sullied spoiler point.

      “Only Cat” to “Your sister” does matter.
      The use of “valonqar” does matter.
      “Wherever whores go” does matter.

      Cheers! 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    65. More on topic,

      I’m not that familiar with May’s work so I’m exicited to see what her version of Maggy will be like. Hopefully creepy.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Hodor’s Bastard,
      Regarding:

      “Only Cat” to “Your sister” does matter.
      The use of “valonqar” does matter.
      “Wherever whores go” does matter.

      No, they really do not. The story is a forest. These are, at most, replacing one tree with another tree of the same species. Indeed, I would state that it’s the difference between the same tree with different sets of leaves. Never mind the story: none of these things even affect the plot.

      “your sister” = “Cat”

      : except that everyone in the audience knew what Littlefinger meant. Similarly,

      valonqar = little brother

      : except that an unnecessary extra line is omitted.

      Where ever whores go

      was a reason, and not the reason. The audience was no more confused by what happened next here than they were by the Witch King’s death despite what some fans want to believe.

      In the end, the forest is the same and even the individual trees are not notably different. The audience watching these cable series (and the critics praising these cable series) likes this kind of forest: but they don’t care particular about the exact state of the foliage. That comes and goes, but the forest is the same forest.

      (Trust me, if B&W ever do change the forest, then I’ll be the first to complain!)

        Quote  Reply

    67. Still no news on Winds release. Some people on here sound like morons. Have you people ever heard of makeup and prosthetics being used to transform actors, gee I wonder if they are thinking of using said method on the show. It’s not like they would hold a casting call for a 35-65 year old ugly female lol.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Wimsey:
      Hodor’s Bastard,

      The problem that arises for audiences is that it’s too easy for third parties to say “it’s too soon!” (particularly) when the heartbreak is due to death.

      But does it have to be love?

      Maybe he just wants to get laid since she´s hot?

      Anyone can relate to that.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Quiddity,

      I could see Pycelle working. Wouldn’t be exactly a replacement for Kevan, but that ship has sailed as far as I see, since Kevan basically remained a background character during the entire show (and only in the first two seasons). Pycelle is interesting because we know he pretends to be way more feeble than he really is. They even alluded again to that in the (cut) scene with Tywin, where he admits that he likes to keep his head low while the other taller “flowers in the garden” get cut. Would be funny, if Cersei antagonizes him for so long (which has been going on now for some time) that he goes over her head after her arrest, drops the charade and actually does a good job in KL.

      Only to be killed by Varys.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Hodor’s Bastard,

      Wow nice ideas, I had not thought about the phrase so intently, probably because my brain was overloaded processing the horrors of the red wedding.

      So by saying “Jaime…” he was actually speaking to Cat as he gutted Robb. He wanted to hurt Cat the most by his words before she died. Everything Cat had done in Robb’s trust, especially freeing Jaime, now came back to haunt her final moments. It didn’t matter if Tywin gave the order, this was Roose at his most evil.

      I never thought of this. Nasty Roose.

      D&D brought in Mel to learn from Thoros so she could move forward with the power to revive Jon at some point (I’m convinced of this).

      Completely agree, I feel this way myself. We’ll have to see if we’re correct when TWoW and S6 comes out!

      As you stated, “The Lannisters send their regards” created a TV moment that pitted family vs family to the viewing audience, leading to wider more-daunting effects of war.

      Glad we agree. I’m loving your detailed analysis, but I still feel like maximum impact and simplification of that scene was the primary motivation for the change. I think it achieved that. D&D knowing the LSH would be cut and the riverlands/BwB stuff would change needs they didn’t need to say Jaime, it’s not because they didn’t say Jaime. Honestly I just think they’re trying to keep it simple and not lose the audience along the way, that scene is a huge huge horrific twist.

      The focus on Jaime is lifted and Jaime can go about his business in Dorne or whatever, to pursue whatever mass appeal “redemption arc” is awaiting him.

      I know I’m biased here as a Jaime lover, and I do think Jaime’s “redemption arc” is important, but in that case I brought it up because I think it’s been a bit rocky for the show at times to communicate the changes Jaime is going through to the audience of unsullied. It’s easier for book readers because we have Jaime’s POV and we can understand easily. But Seasons 3 and 4 I thought had moments of success with this (mostly with Brienne) and some epic fails (sept rape.. entire internet calls Jaime a rapist, wtf). Jaime’s struggles and our changing view of him from one dimensional arrogant Stark enemy to the nuanced and divided character we see back in KL trying to pick up the pieces of his life after the loss of his hand, to keep Tyrion alive, loss of his innocent view that he is the warrior and Cersei is the maid, is a part of the books that I enjoy. I don’t think changing the line from Jaime to Lannisters hurts that to book readers who understand it anyway, and it could avoid confusion with unsullied viewers who are literally confused thinking Jaime had something to do with the RW anyway, even with the change! I think D&D walk a fine line sometimes trying to appeal to book enthusiasts like themselves, and to not leave the casual audience behind, and this is one particular change I didn’t mind (both the words, and including the bigger plot change of dropping LSH). As for the Dorne vs Riverlands change.. well, I was shocked initially, but if they can do a good job introducing the Dornish to a familiar character, and Jaime can do through some of his same process there, then I’ll be ok. I just worry it’s going to get too Butterfly crazy.. but I’ll reserve judgement for when the season airs! I’m more upset about the loss of Arianne than moving Jaime to Dorne I think. As long as the Blackfish returns at some point. And can we get a Frey Pie please! 😉

        Quote  Reply

    71. And I didn’t mean for that to come across as unsullied viewers can’t even figure out who planned the RW! I know plenty who catch every detail of the show, and we all know the quality of Oz!! I also know some people who just watch it more for fun, and some of them have trouble following the basic plot/characters. I guess instead of unsullied viewers I should have been more specific and said “the casual/general TV audience” 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    72. This sums it up perfectly. I’m just pleasantly surprised when they include smaller plot fragments or characters such as this.

      Also re: the age of mags – I think it sounds like they’re making the character less conventional, less of a cliché. I’m looking forward to seeing these scenes a little more now.

      A Man Grown:
      Don’t expect anything on the show to be exactly like the books ever again, and you won’t be disappointed.

        Quote  Reply

    73. haggard,

      I will probably be in the minority here but…

      Kevan was always nothing more than background to me in the books too. His role as Lannister voice of reason once Tywin has died defines him. Other than that, I’m afraid I never found him particularly intriguing – he is servile, subordinate, and conventional. He serves his purpose. Someone else could do that though, as many are suggesting. His death is shocking for the nature of it, for the timing of it, and for who is responsible, not because it is Kevan who is killed.

        Quote  Reply

    74. Waxfoot,

      On the other hand: why not bring him back? He’s easy to (re-)introduce, there’s more than enough room for him in the KL storyline (now that so many are gone) and it wouldn’t force pawns like Pycelle or Mace Tyrell (who isn’t even in KL by the end of the season) into positions or storylines that are inconsistent with their portrayal in the show so far. My assessment is that Kevan is one of the few characters (along with Lancel) who would be much easier to bring back than to somehow work around.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Hodor’s Bastard,

      That was excellent bit of analysis. Thanks for presenting it in a manner that invites discussion.

      Interesting to note how some of these changes pointed to the elimination of LS early on. I may be in the minority but I’m not concerned about this particular change. (Call them minor characters, background characters or foils or whatever, but I do regret the reduced role of the BWB. I liked the concept of a Westerosi vigilante group that began with noble intentions.)

      I completely agree that the conversation between Mel and Thoros was an indication that she will revive Jon at some point. The scene in the S4 finale when they see each other thru the flames certainly points to that as well.

      One minor point: I hate that Grey Wind was killed without a fight. Yes, I understand what is and isn’t possible in the world of CGI, but I still hate it.

      Jaime’s girl,

      I agree that the show is having a difficult time with Jaime’s so-called “redemption arc.” I like the character and I love NCW’s portrayal so I, too, am biased. The killing of his cousin and the terribly executed sept scene are not making things easier. The POV chapters did a great job of providing Jaime’s perspective. It is what it is. I’m eager to see what happens in Dorne even though I am concerned. Since we are talking about Jaime in the thread about Cersei’s prophecy/flashback, it will be interesting to gage audience reaction when he chokes the life from her. Does that complete or destroy his redemption arc?

        Quote  Reply

    76. Jordan,

      Exactly what I was thinking. Maggy is already said to be from the east so Volantis shouldn’t be a stretch for her to come from. Volantis is going to be featured in this new season as well, probably unrelated but theorising never hurt anyone.

        Quote  Reply

    77. KG:
      Nice. Not even a week and I’ve already had a comment deleted for some reason.

      Same old crap.

      No posts of yours have been deleted. It probably was a glitch.

        Quote  Reply

    78. KG,

      Didn’t you say you didn’t want anything to do with this site or it’s owners on “the other site”,it’s funny how much ass kissing you were doing there yet you came here with the tail between your legs when you saw there wasn’t much of a community left there .

        Quote  Reply

    79. Dutch maester,

      I agree – I would welcome the character being brought back in for this season. What I do think is that the limited portrayal of Kevan up to this season isn’t a problem. If he is brought back then great, but if he isn’t then I can see plenty of ways around it to get to the same point.

      I don’t like seeing any character cut, but when the role they play in the plot is as uncomplicated as in Kevan’s case, I’m not going to get too disappointed. Anyway, as you say, we may yet see him back and it’d be easy to do so.

      Wyman frickin’ Manderly. Now there’s a character I’ll be disappointed if their role is diminished or cut. I’m an optimist… They’re saving him for season 6!

      Also. I agree with those discussing the aptitude of the actress Jodhi May, rather than making too many judgements based on her headshots. Make up, prosthetics and costumes do wonders, as do great acting performances; I wouldn’t get too concerned with an actor’s headshot.

        Quote  Reply

    80. mariamb,

      I think I share your feeling of cautious concern and wanting to look after how Jaime’s image is portrayed. We’ll see what Season 5 brings, I’m optimistic that D&D understand him (despite the mishaps) and even with all the changes he will still develop to where he need to be.

      Waxfoot,

      Dutch maester,
      I think I agree with both of you!

      Kevan is nothing special, his death was shocking for the reasons you stated not because we all love and relate to Kevan Lannister. I don’t think Pycelle is the right person to replace his role if they don’t bring him back (but who knows), maybe someone else can. That being said, he would not be all that hard to bring back, especially if Lancel is around and the cast in KL is greatly reduced this season with Tywin, Tyrion, Jaime and Bronn, Brienne, Petyr, Varys all departed or not around much.

        Quote  Reply

    81. Hey guys, I just thought of something.

      Talisa’s last name was Maegyr.

      Maegyr…Maegie…Maggie…seems significant combined with how much this actress looks like Talisa.

      Random Easter Egg for readers or is there perhaps something important about Maggie the Frog being related to Rob’s wife? Or maybe D&D just liked the irony–Talisa killed by Lannisters, then her ancestor destroys the Lannisters from the grave.

      I’m torn between thinking “nah, just a coincidence” and “wow, that’s quite a coincidence.”

        Quote  Reply

    82. Jaime’s girl,

      I agree with your Kevanalysis. One thing I’ve just considered actually is that

      Kevan’s death is significant partly because he is going to bring a steady hand to the realm; Varys wants the realm unsteady and ready for Aegon to conquer. If Aegon is out, there is less need for Kevan’s inclusion. All that being said, I hope the show manages to find a way to introduce the former, and reintroduce the latter!

        Quote  Reply

    83. Blind Beth:
      Hey guys, I just thought of something.

      Talisa’s last name was Maegyr.

      Maegyr…Maegie…Maggie…seems significant combined with how much this actress looks like Talisa.

      Random Easter Egg for readers or is there perhaps something important about Maggie the Frog being related to Rob’s wife? Or maybe D&D just liked the irony–Talisa killed by Lannisters, then her ancestor destroys the Lannisters from the grave.

      I’m torn between thinking “nah, just a coincidence” and “wow, that’s quite a coincidence.”

      Hey guess what? Maggy’s last name is the same as Kermit’s. Coincidence? 😉

        Quote  Reply

    84. Waxfoot,
      Jaime’s girl,

      Ahhh…interesting comments!

      I agree with the point that Kevan’s death is shocking because Varys – Mr. “I Serve The Realm” – makes a bold move and offs the one guy that seemed to be committed to establishing peace. Without Aegon, many assume that Varys will reveal that he has been supporting Dany. In other words, Dany would replace Aegon in Varys’ plan. (I’m not 100% convinced that this works but we shall soon know.)

      However, I don’t think that Pycelle’s death will be enough. (Honestly, Pycelle gives me the creeps. I’m surprised that he has lasted this long.) Someone else – someone shocking – has to die to establish Varys as the master game player. Of course, now that Varys is traveling with Tyrion and will presumably join him in Illyrio’s mansion, we may insight into Varys’ long-range planning sooner than expected.

        Quote  Reply

    85. Preach!!!!! Preach and prophesize Maggie The Frog…and welcome to the cast Ms. May, and young Cersei and her young brunnette friend…!

      I hope you have a nice time on the show!

        Quote  Reply

    86. mariamb,

      I wonder if

      Varys will stay with Tyrion, and not go back to King’s Landing at all. Jorah will snatch Tyrion, and Varys might wonder where he’s gone, look for him? I actually think it will be Littlefinger who kills Pycelle/Kevan/Olenna/somebody important at the end of the season, since he’ll be the one returning to KL. Sansa, Brienne, Pod and maybe even Gendry will get mixed up in the mess with the BWB/Blackfish in the Riverlands.

      I remember Jodhi May from the PBS adaptation of Emma with Romola Garai and Jonny Lee Miller, and period films like The House of Mirth . She’s good. I’m curious about what she’ll look like in GoT.

        Quote  Reply

    87. Hodor’s Bastard:

      Will they even use the “v” word in the show?

      According to David J Peterson (the Valyrian/Dothraki language guy) it will be relevant in some form. At the very least, he needed to check how D&D wanted to pronounce “valonqar” onscreen to make it consistent with other things he was doing.

        Quote  Reply

    88. Chickenduck,

      That was just because it was an example from the books that contained a Valyrian ‘q’. He needed to know how they wanted the ‘q’ pronounced to work out the phonetics of how Valyrian should sound. I don’t think he knows anything particular about the plot, other than whatever he’s translated already for season 5.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Hodor’s Bastard,

      That’s a great, well thought-out theory. Unfortunately Bryan Cogman already revealed why the line was changed. Originally the line in the script WAS indeed “Jaime Lannister sends his regards”. Then the actors, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau among them, asked the screenwriters what that meant. Nikolaj specifically didn’t understand what Jaime had to do with the Red Wedding. So the line was changed to eradicate confusion. It had nothing to do with them omitting a certain someone (that decision was clearly up in the air at the time).

        Quote  Reply

    90. Chickenduck,
      Afeastfordances,

      Yeah, I’m sure DJP was involved considerably. But will young Cersei even know that Valyrian word as MtF integrates it into Westerosi? Will Maggy be a vicious vagabond gypsy speaking only Valyrian, with Melara providing dubious translation?

      Furthermore, while I enjoyed Arya-Jaqen’s “Valar Morghulis” moment, I didn’t think it was handled well between Dany-Missandei. “…but we are not men…(giggle-giggle) Really? They had to go there? So, in that light, we have a possible “valonqar” conundrum.

      I know this is/was heavily debated within the community, but many Valyrian words are often considered “gender-neutral”….so terms like “Valar Morghulis” and “valonqar” are inherently suspect. Will they do like they did in S3 to further clarify the meaning? Or let it pass by for the audience to figure out? Will they use a hammer or a pillow for this prophecy? Just wondering…

        Quote  Reply

    91. Robert,

      🙂 Well, on that note, in the spirit of SNL’s Church Lady….“never mind…” I’ll go back in my closet and mope now. Cheers to overcooking the Christmas ham!

        Quote  Reply

    92. Jesterr2234,

      I did indeed. I decided to be an adult and give a second chance. Shame you can’t manage the same.

      And there’s not much point in a discussion group where there is no discussion. They had a chance to build something and they aren’t doing a very good job of it. That’s life. Kiss my ass 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    93. anyone think maybe the griffs are cast but being covered up since they have surprising roles kind of like when Ramsay was cast as Boy. I really hope so. Its like DD are taking the only parts i liked and remembered from AFFC/ADWD and cutting them. If greyjoys are pushed to season 6 there rly isnt that much they have to fit in to one season and lots of characters have died or are not going to be in this season so i dont get why they cant cast like 3-4 more that they seem to be cutting. They only need the Griffs for like 2-3 scenes. I feel like the show tries to reduce the number of characters for the fans that watch every other episode and dont pay attention to most of the story.

        Quote  Reply

    94. If that’s what passes for “TV Ugly” these days, I better start dressing like the Elephantman to protect the public.

        Quote  Reply

    95. Robert,

      After pondering this a bit further, I cannot concur regarding that simple circumstantial explanation of the change. Whether it was completely intended or not, the “phrase change” enabled the showrunners to mix things up and focus more on furthering the “Jaime story” elsewhere rather than lingering on the “Stark story” in the riverlands. As others have mentioned, that slight change has provided the “butterfly effect” in the riverlands and now the balance has been completely altered in that location, aesthetically and strategically.

      BC, what say you? (as if he would read this and respond…)

        Quote  Reply

    96. Eurio,

      Yes, but wouldn’t you agree that “Jaime Lannister sends his regards” implies, from Cat’s dying perspective, that Jaime (and Brienne) broke their vows/oath, Jaime was involved with the RW mutiny, Cat’s daughters were not safe, and no one, not even northerners, could be trusted? No one but evil Roose could manipulate Cat like that in her final moments.

      The hate/vengeance that is the very essence of LS’s being was fostered with those words.

      ( imho 🙂 )

      EDIT: Please note that Brienne saved herself from LS only by uttering a word that promised Jaime to her. LS did not have the luxury of hearing Jaime’s revealing “bath monologue”. Her upcoming meeting with Jaime/Brienne will be all or nothing.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Robert:
      Hodor’s Bastard,

      That’s a great, well thought-out theory. Unfortunately Bryan Cogman already revealed why the line was changed. Originally the line in the script WAS indeed “Jaime Lannister sends his regards”. Then the actors, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau among them, asked the screenwriters what that meant. Nikolaj specifically didn’t understand what Jaime had to do with the Red Wedding. So the line was changed to eradicate confusion. It had nothing to do with them omitting a certain someone (that decision was clearly up in the air at the time).

      I will never understand the uproar over that change. One doesn’t need that story to see why it was changed, and that it makes perfect sense. A bunch of viewers would be wondering why he said that and if it meant that Jamie had known about the Red Wedding.

      And as for the idea that that entire subplot rests on whether Roose said “The Lannisters” or “Jaime Lannisters”… really?

        Quote  Reply

    98. Hodor’s Bastard,

      The “valar morghulis” conundrum was essentially fan-made though. The only word from HV that canonically has been stated to be unisex is “prince” as in “the prince that was promised”. It was only that some of the fandom took that as meaning that all terms in Valyrian were gender neutral etc.

      “Valar” for example, is the same as English “man” – whilst it can be used to refer to the whole of mankind, its literal meaning is specifically for males (in High Valyrian as created by DJP, at least). So Dany’s joke was completely consistent with High Valyrian as per DJP’s creation. Just not with how some fans had assumed from the books.

      I know also that DJP has different words for little brother and little sister in High Valyrian as it stands, as he was asked about it on his blog or somewhere. So Valonqar is unambiguous. For the record, older brother and older sister are also completely separate words – so there are 4 basic terms for siblings (like in Chinese etc).

      BUT he has had to retcon things before, so maybe if D&D want to make “Valonqar” ambiguous then he’ll need to twiddle the lexicon a bit.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Chickenduck,

      Thx for the response, Ser Poultry! Good to read you again.

      Had a good discussion several threads ago regarding various fan-based options for TPTWP…and you know the ongoing westeros debate about it. I basically extended that “unisex” idea into the ‘v’ word, as others have. Probably not worth pursuing. I’m more interested in how Cersei interprets it. Will it be bluntly stated (initiating a reaction) or will it be something that festers?

        Quote  Reply

    100. Lady Nym,

      Obviously rumours about him being Sophie Turner’s current beau were grossly exaggerated (unless they were an item for a time and have since parted company).

        Quote  Reply

    101. Marcie,

      I will always defend myself when insulted. If that makes me “not nice,” then I happily accept that mantle.

      After all, it’s a much better descriptor than “candy-assed punching bag.”

      P. S. Do try to speak English in complete sentences. We aren’t 14-year olds.

        Quote  Reply

    102. You kids calm down or they’ll be no Disneyland for anyone!

      Dame of Mercia,

      Pretty sure they used to go out but don’t think they do anymore. Either way, I try not to take an interest in actor’s privates because a/ it’s none of my business and b/it’s pretty boring.

        Quote  Reply

    103. TheTouchOfFrost,

      You are quite right, it is only their concern, and there are more important things happening on the planet, but these things (actors’ private lives) do get reported pretty intensively.{{End of reply to TouchofFrost}}

      Trivial fact – and people will probably be aware of it anyway – but the actress (or female actor if you prefer) who played Nan opposite Johdi May’s character in “Tipping the Velvet” is Rachel Stirling, who is Diana Rigg’s (Lady Olenna) real life daughter.

        Quote  Reply

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