As “The Last of the Starks” came right after a battle, it’d be understandable if most audiences expected it to be a relatively calm episode before things got dicey again; and it was, for a short while. By the end, however, we’d seen another (quick) battle and the shocking deaths of two beloved characters. Did the ratings reflect the usual “calm before the storm” dip, or did audiences anticipate something big was coming?
Deadline reports that this past Sunday’s fourth episode of season eight earned a viewership of 11.80 million during HBO’s first airing on the United States.
At 11.80 million, “The Last of the Starks” is the third most-watched Game of Thrones episode on its first US broadcast, behind only the as-yet unmatched season seven finale, “The Dragon and the Wolf”, at 12.07 million viewers, and “The Long Night”, at 12.02. This new episode just got past the 11.76 figure from this year’s premiere, “Winterfell”.
As I asked last week: will season eight break the season seven finale’s record? If any of them have a chance, it’s either the fifth episode this next Sunday, which promises to be the final battle between Daenerys and Cersei, or the series finale the week after it.
First airing figures don’t quite mean what they used to, however. After all, when taking overnight airings and streaming into account, “Winterfell” surpassed the season seven finale with 17.4 million viewers, a new record broken again by “The Long Night”, at 17.8 million. Since this is a truer reflection of how people watch television nowadays, that may be a more accurate metric by which to judge viewership. Under those standards, this episode did proportionally as well as on first airing, with 17.2 million viewers, which makes it the third most-watched Game of Thrones episode this way too.
Hodor.
Hope the record is broken this sunday
Oh what a funny coincidence. I JUST posted a comment in the other thread about the awesome scream by Daenerys when she dove Drogon at the ships and then Luka uses a picture of her doing that scream for this thread. đ
One of my fav Dany moments. Still waiting to see if anything will surpass ” The Dragon and the Wolf” rating. Two more chances.
The two best chances, to be honest. The finale especially. Though the cliffhangery pre-battle ending of 804 may do the trick for 805, too.
Well, I am a telepath. Did I forget to mention this?
The title: too soon Luka too soon. I’m still mourning.
If this is not prove that most people liked the long night I don’t know what is.
No matter what folks think of the storytelling execution and pacing, this is must-see TV. I’ve never heard my mother so aflutter over the phone about the living and the dead these past few weeks.
Poor Rhaegal.
Maybe had he been allowed to rest and heal that wounded wing, his flying would have been steadier and he’d be able to zig zag…
6thofhisname,
“You should all listen to Sansa” appears to be the moral of this story đ
I’m confused. I thought D&D had ruined the show with episode 3 and that no one was going to watch it anymore.
/s
JSchmeh,
It was one of the bigger let downs of the show to a lot of people for sure. Did anyone truly think someone who watched the rest of the show wasnt gonna check out the last 3 episodes just because they swept years worth of suspense and lore under the rug for zombie spectacle though?
If anything, I really think this stronger episode helped renew interest for SOME people who looked at the long night that way.
Agree, the hype of the final season and everyone wanting to know how it ends will drive viewership regardless of how people feel about the writing.
“Must-See TV” indeed. These last two episodes are going to break the internet.
Ser Brocolli McBrocolliface,
These numbers are the live viewership totals. If the majority of the viewers truly dislike the writing, they wouldnât be interested enough to watch it live.
Unless you ask for specifics, then she doesn’t know.
So a question about live viewership. Does that include HBO go apps on smart TVs. That’s what most everyone I know and myself watches it on, but its techniqully streaming I guess.
It’s funny how people like you equate ratings with quality. I mean, just look at Walking Dead, that should tell you otherwise.
BobDole,
The Walking Deadâs numbers are way down, so thatâs not a good comparison. Itâs just that the internet backlash of last weekâs episode seemed to indicate the vast majority of viewers were unhappy with the show this season, but last episodeâs ratings show that is not the case. If people had become disinterested, the live viewership ratings wouldnât be so high.
Pigeon,
Or she just doesn’t want to tell you. You are forgetting, she is the smartest đ
Young Dragon,
You’re not even mentioning the multitude of people that were claiming to rage quit after last weeks episode. I kind of wish they would, there would be a lot less mindless bagging of the show late in the week. I don’t mind constructive criticism. If you don’t have something good to say about something then state your case constructively. Don’t be so selfish as to try and bring everyone else down just because you feel that you were let down. That is a very selfish act. Destructive criticism amounts to bagging. And baggers should honour their words and actually follow through with their rage quit.
the unburdened,
You’re spot on. Instead we have so many Comic Book Guys just nerd-raging their tiresome rants.
But their bagging ain’t gonna stop me from loving this final season and cherishing the few episodes we have left.
I loved episode 4. I thought it was the best episode since the season 06 finale. Other than Gendry inexplicable calling himself “Gendry Rivers,” and the Starbucks cup, I thought everything else was just fantastic. Loved, loved, LOVED the episode.
Everyone was so beautifully, perfectly in character and so many things look to be setting up the final two episodes while bringing things full-circle from the beginning of the series. I genuinely think when the series is over–if it goes the way I truly think it is as the narrative implies–people are going to realize just how much this episode set up so brilliantly.
Oh good point! The smartest!!!
Does this episode really deserve 57% on rotten tomatoes?
That’s counted as streaming.
BobDole,
The walking dead ratings is very low at the moment. So yes if an episode is very bad the next episode the ratings is very low.
Young Dragon,
70% rated episode 3 a 10. And a big bunch a 9 and 8.its a very small loud group that though episode 3 was bad. Same with 4 which suffer from fake accounts. And I hope imdb take care of that.
the unburdened,
I saw a lot of criticize on fb and 9gag (whkch I already start to hate for their backwards political thinking but I like memes). Lots of people criticizing don’t even know half what happened in the episode. And once people show their that they’re wrong they can’t seem to think of anything to say. Just say: they follow grrm plan. First ww then human drama after that. Or explain them why half had to die so that the nk could show himself instead of wondering off.
Has it been known that d and d are going to doing the new Star Wars movies and the first coming out in 2022. I feel like thatâs the real reason they only wanted 8 seasons
Please stop complaining about complainers and focus on the show.
Reek,
Nope. The episode wasn’t perfect, but the internet has clearly gone mad.
On all three relevant sites that “measure” the quality of TV shows – IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic, this season has abysmal (for GoT standards, or at least mediocre for general standards). This season has some serious issues on many fronts. I watched the episode and I plan to watch the last two, but that doesn’t mean they have done a good job. They didn’t. But we have two more episodes, so we’ll see.
Please stop complaining about complainers complaining about complainers and focus on the show.
Coordinated review bombing, which HAS been going on, doesn’t reflect the position of most of the audience.
Undead Elephant,
LOL
Mladen,
Trolls are invading IMDB and some critics are attacking the show for political reasons. Killing black girl and so on.
Who cares . I’m sure D&D and everyone else that worked on the show at this point just want to escape from this insane fandom. The show is better than they deserve.
Luka Nieto,
Yeah. The same lunatics that made hundreds of YT videos against TLJ and Captain Marvel are now attacking GoT.
So those alt-right crazy nerds, feminists, political activists, book purists, all of them feel betrayed. lol
But majority of the audience still love the show and nothing will change that.
Question as you are a moderator in this site, which also has a rating of episodes. Shouldn’t imdb not look into fake accounts? Because it’s messing with the reason why did made that site, to show what the average person think, If somebody made 10 accounts and give it a 1 with it, it’s not really a good representation anymore.
And if they want to do something about it, can they do it? Or are there problems with it that could arise? Being accused of censorship, not respecting opinions, being in hoolywoods pocket etc?
JSchmeh,
LOL
JenniferH,
love this
Just like I said last week. Episode 2 dip due to Easter and spring break. Ep 4 will be slightly less than Ep 3, and 5 then 6 will be the two highest ever.
Although at this point, everyone is just turning in to see the train wreck.
Miss Stark,
Unfortunately I think its GOT’s popularity (a great thing to have) that has caused this Cersei-like madness (a bad result)
For example, after the episode airs on Sunday, most of the trending or hot topics on twitter are GOT related for a few days after the show airs. And usually it is based on a few fan tweets which become trending and then Twitter makes them even more trending by collecting them into a headline and placing them in the trending section, which spreads the madness. LOL
kevin1989,
Its horrible… 6.8 on imdb? like I know its not reliable but this is a huge jump from the lowest rated episode before…
I don’t get it?
I know someone said to stop focusing on complainers but its pissing me off! LOL
Like for me, a find, that most of the people on this website actually loved the episode, so I find it a good measure of how good the episode actually was…. because people here actually understand what the episode meant.
I just feel sad that it is being rated so poorly. That’s all.
Luka Nieto,
Coordinated? REALLY? That is the excuse? I mean, we can’t deny the significant drop in quality. It is not just nameless Internet trolls, some very respected reviewers questioned the decisions made this season. Delusional fanboyism serves no purpose.
mau,
While I don’t hate show, I have to acknowledge numerous problems it has this year. The drop in quality is rather noticeable, the things are getting more and more ridiculous. It is not about killing characters… Two years ago, when Olenna was killed, the scene was superbly written. Most of the scenes this year are not. Theon scene was nicely written, but then you had Arya becoming PTWP, the attempts of retcon, senseless tactics and so on… There are some valid arguments in the criticism.
I mean, yes, we can all disregard the criticism and shrug it off as “coordinated attack”, (I mean, LOL!!!) but we all know what is “the most heroic thing we can all do”. Game of Thrones certainly isn’t Twilight-level bad, but it really lost its touch.
Mladen,
I strongly disagree. Season 8 is currently my third favorite season, and depending how the final two episodes go, it may end up being my favorite. The writing, the pacing, the acting, and the directing have all been incredible this season.
Dee Stark,
For me season 8 rated my second favorite season. Does it has it problems? Yes? Does the first season has their fair share of problems? yes. It is only more noticeable now because we are at the endgame, meaning that season 1 had the luxury to pave the way the rules and get to know the characters, and the plot could be moved to later if they couldn’t fit it in.
Now season 8, they need to do much much more. They need to give the characters proper goodbye’s. They need to think of every 67 episodes that went before what has said there, what rules have been build etc in the latest season. They need to move the story faster because it’s endgame, meaning more needs to happen, bit a big bang. All that together make it more difficult to make the show. We expect as fans that every episode will be packed with human drama and with action base scenes. Episode 1 and 2 got the backlash that nothing happen and only talk and character moments. Episode 3 got the backlash that it was to much based on the action. Episode 4 got the backlash that it should have been 2 episodes, 1 about the characters in the north and 1 action in the south.
I don’t think the fans really know themselves what they want.I think what they want was that season 8 would be the best season and the second best season after that only half of the quality of season 8, they wanted to much. And what they want would have cost 3x as much as we got now.
I’m a nobody here but just wanted to appreciate this site and the wonderful people who moderate and participate in the comment section, I joined a group in my country where people discuss the show, 90 percent of the comments were calling the female characters sluts and whores, discussing the actresses private parts, and wishing them rape in the upcoming episodes, all this talk was reflective of the culture of the men in my country, so I’m glad there is a place on the world wide web where I don’t have to read these things and see people politely discuss the episode,
JenniferH,
I thought you’d be more upset at the apparent end of Gendrya. đ It was heartbreaking seeing Arya turn lovestruck Gendry down, but not that surprising.
Personally, I thought it was a very good episode, but emotionally it left me uneasy (which I suppose is the point). I would have liked a little more (just one scene) exploration of Arya dealing with being the hero in the last episode. We get some hints, but it would have been nice with a scene between her and Jon where he could actually realize how skilled she is, and we could have seen her either fess up to being trained by the FM or decide to keep that from him.
Dee Stark,
Simple way to get 40 million viewers and a 9.9 rating: Just follow the Hoind and Arya Traveling Road Show for 50 minutes,* and let Dany and Sansa have the remaining 15-20 minutes to undermine each other.
Oh, and at least let Jon be the Valonqar. Otherwise, his big contribution to S8 thus far has been to yell at Undead Viserion. I’ve given up on Bran: he’ll probably stay too long sometime in the past and get stuck there.
*(Suggested S8e5 episode titles: “Aw For F*ck’s Sake”; or “The Cold Little Bitch and the Worst Sh*t”)
Young Dragon,
YES!
kevin1989,
I know, you are right.
Ten Bears,
LOL!
Enharmony1625,
⢠Didn’t Arya tell Sandor “I don’t like heroes”?
I’m guessing that maybe she wants to retain her anonymity. She’s never taken credit for ridding the world of the Freys and their awful hats. There aren’t too many people who even know what she looks like.
⢠While I feel bad for Gendry, he played it all wrong! Doesn’t he remember her telling him way back when, “Do not call me ‘My Lady'”?
Be cool, Gendry, be cool.
mau,
I’ve been following the show for 8 years and love it and have followed this and other message boards for nearly as long.
And I am disappointed with this season. Last season had flaws but I was willing to overlook them in anticipation of the Season 8 payoff. But it’s clear that its not coming. It’s clear that D/D rushed things when they didn’t have to. 10 episodes each for S7 and S8 would have given them time for more character interaction, more realistic timelines, more time for explanations of things they haven’t explained, a “longer” Night…. instead they are just trying to end things as fast as possible. And everything has suffered.
As usual, you speak the truth! If we don’t get some juicy scenes between Arya and Sandor next episode, I’ll be sorely disappointed. D&D did say in the Inside the Episode segment from 8×01 that one of the things they most were looking forward to is reuniting these two, and so far they’ve had a scene or two together in each episode, but nothing super meaty yet. Although they are definitely warming up to each other more as we can see in their scene from last episode where Sandor laughs at Arya saying “probably” with a smirk.
Ten Bears,
Gendry was definitely a bit of a doofus last episode, and he absolutely should have known better, but.. can you blame the guy? I still feel bad for him.
Mladen,
I guess we’ll just have to assume or guess that Arya is TPTWP? Even though it makes no sense with what we’ve been given for the prophecy thus far…. at least we have Mel and her backstory to explain it to us… oh wait… or her red priestesses or Kinvara or the Lord of Light…. oh wait….
Just like we’ll get no answers on why the NK and the WW rose now… how he ties to Bran… why they left Sam and Craster to live….why tease Bran influencing the past… what about the Phi NK symbol….God of the Seven… Valeryian Steel… Varys and the voice… etc. etc ad nauseum.
Ryan,
That Arya was the final blow doesn’t mean she is the tPtWP, That was still Jon and Dany. Arya could have been lightbringer.
kevin1989,
They haven’t even mentioned Lightbringer in the show (other than Stannis’ sword), so I don’t see that coming to pass. And I guess we’ll just assume that Jon AND Dany were TPTWP even though they didn’t kill the dead and would be dead if not for Arya?
You know what? I can’t blame the guy. If it were me, I’d be telling myself “Don’t do it! Don’t do it! Don’t do it!”… and I’d do it anyway.
How can a guy not turn into a lovesick puppy after getting seduced by ASNAWPTWP?
(And she really has been looking beautiful. The Many-Faced Goddess and Breaker of Hearts. )
Ryan,
Hey, I’m still irked about all the books Sam stole from the Citadel. Ever since Stannis told him “Keep reading, Samwell Tarley” I thought he’d find some obscure bit of information in an ancient book that would save the day.
But nope. I guess not. And I doubt we’ll ever hear from Kinvara about the voice in the flames – unless Varys himself reveals it while Drogon Shireens him.
Ten Bears,
Yeah, just another on the pile…. Sam found the dragonglass mountain and the annulment but thats about it….came to Winterfell to help and didn’t do anything… didn’t even mention the dagger in the book.
Oh well, you know. I had problems with episode 3 (quite a few) and even way more with episode 4, but I sure as hell want to see if they manage to fix some of the issues as least.
As they say, hope dies last.
So clearly I will watch the two remaining episodes, despite me being depressed by recent choices.
Hi đ
I am just curious, with regards to the issues you have had, how can they fix them? What do you mean?
Dee Stark,
I wonder how many people that take the time to rate episodes actually watch the episodes more than once. Personally I think watching it even twice makes a difference in several ways, not the least of which is being able to appreciate smaller things that can be missed the first time. I ALWAYS watch every episode during the week it airs at least four times all the way through, usually more, and specific scenes several more times on top of that. Adding in my habit of watching many reaction videos I think I get a fairly strong grasp on each episode by the next Sunday.
This is a small example of my perspective after just one viewing of “The Last of the Starks” – A portion of my first post in Open Chat shortly after the episode:
After subsequent viewings I cooled down on my “hate” for what the characters did. Had I rated the episode right after one viewing it would have been lower than I would now. No, I wouldn’t have rated it a 1/10 or anything absurdly low, but it would have been lower than I think is my true measure.
I found that I really appreciated pretty much everything in the great hall a lot more after first watch. All of that to include the private bits attached around it such as Arya & Gendry and Jaime & Brienne along with the opening funeral scene was a pretty lengthy chunk of the episode. There are really good moments in there that I’d think could bolster viewer enjoyment and certainly nothing really that should warrant anyone’s “awful” label.
I’m still not thrilled with what some of the characters are doing, but the presentation of it is still good. I have to reserve my feelings on actions and let it all play out. One example on this is Bronn. I really thought they took him over the top and out of the character they’d built him into. He actually punched Tyrion and shot a warning bolt at Jaime!? I still don’t think he’ll kill either one of them, but, they want to make us think that he will do it. I wasn’t looking at it quite as broadly the first time.
… so this post is getting too lengthy… Short version is, “watch the damn episodes more than once before making your final judgements.” đ
Episode length isnt the problem. The last 4 episodes are all almost an hour and a half in length. What they needed was another full season. Ive heard of contract issues or actors wanting to move on etc, but the only way this was going to get fully fleshed out was if we got season 9, and all of these broad points were stretched over 2 seasons, not one.
Mladen,
Sorry, you canât tell me that if âBeyond The Wallâ is rated a 9.2/10 that this episode being rated a 6.8/10 isnât based primarily on a coordinated effort to just give the show a 1/10 score. Season 8 hasnât had a drop in level from season 7. Iâd argue it has been a step up, as at least they gave us a couple of character focused episodes. No, itâs not the same quality as it was when there were 10 episode seasons. Itâs not as focused on the characters. But itâs not a bad or even mediocre show. 6.8/10 is a score a show like âKnightfallâ would receive, and that show is mediocre.
Mother’s Day is Sunday in the states, so there could be a slight dip.
There actually already was coordinated bombing on IMDB. I think during S5 run, every past episode got several thousand 1/10 votes, at least 5k under each, to the point that many episodes dropped below 8. I noticed the same with Sopranos. IMDB then fixed it at one point.
I’m also sure those 12k 1/10 ratings for Long Night are of suspicious nature as well. I mean, it just seems impossible the episode that was rated really well at first would keep generating only 1-star ratings through week. And this new episode… I find it hard to believe that an episode would suddenly generate 10k 1-star ratings in three days. Like, people were butthurt in past when something didn’t go their way but they didn’t go berserk on IMDB like that, unless they decided to hate-watch the show to the end (which makes them losers in my eyes if that’s the case).
It’s just pathetic and it beyond saddens me. Suddenly I feel like an outsider for loving the show all way through (even though I know that I’m not the only one as most of my FB friends loved this episode and I watched reaction videos on Youtube and people ended up liking it as well). Now I kind of wish I never entered fandom and remained in my own bubble all the time, like I did during my original watch of LOST.
I’m sure you can sense the message from this intro of my review of “Long Night”
It is the middle of the night and cold winds are blowing outside. A lone figure is pushing through the winds, almost not being able to see ahead. The abandoned ancient building looms ahead in the darkness, its windows dark, its stones crumbling. The traveller finally reaches the heavy door, searching for key to unlock it. He enters and looks around… the place is dark, empty, abandoned, with the only noise being the wind and the only light coming from the gaps in the walls. He knows where he needs to go… descending the stairs into the deepest levels of this place with the torch in his hand, he finally reaches it. The vault, the place where it is kept. The traveler puts on a cloak, embodied with white elephant on green field in gold frame. The key enters the keyhole, followed by clank sound and the ancient door opens into darkness. There it is… right where he left it previous week.
Sitting down on the only chair at the only table in the room, Lord Parramandas lits the candle. His still-teary eyes stare into the candle at the table. He remembers the days when the banner used to fly at the top of the tallest tower, when drums were pounding to signify his arrival. Now this is all that is left… a big dusty tome on the table, awaiting for its pages to get filled
Clob,
I agree with this so much and thank you for sharing.
I do believe that there is a collective effort to destroy the popularity of this show, THIS SEASON. I have no doubt about that.
There is absolutely no way the ratings received are valid. I don’t care what anyone says.
Lord Parramandas,
So true!!!!
Ryan,
Varys and the voice! Thank you! I’ve been waiting for them to circle back to that as well.. I doubt we will get the full story or an explanation.
Ryan,
Thatâs always been the problem with endings. People expect everything to be wrapped up in a bow and explain every single mystery. That would have been very difficult for the showrunners to pull off, especially since theyâve passed the books. I wasnât really interested in the mysteries surrounding the White Walkers, only the story. As long as they do the story justice, as Iâm sure they will, I will be satisfied.
It’s just sad and pathetic… rating a GoT episode 1/10 is sooo wrong in my book. I personally never go below 7 with my GoT ratings. It would need to be some realy dull episode to even rate it 6 in my case.
Lord Parramandas,
Same with me, and only two episodes out of seventy-one received a 7 rating from me.
Young Dragon,
Nine 7-rated episodes in my case, none from S6 onwards though.
Lord Parramandas,
Mine are Season 3âs âThe Bear and the Maiden Fairâ and Season 5âs âUnbowed, Unbent, Unbroken.â What are yourâs, if you donât mind me asking.
Young Dragon,
1.2 – THe Kingsroad
1.3 – Lord Snow
2.2 – The Night Lands
2.5 – The Ghost of Harrenhal
2.8 – The Prince of WInterfell
3.2 – Dark Wings Dark Words
3.7 – The Bear and the Maiden Fair
4.3 – Breaker of Chains
5.2 – The House of Black and WHite
“Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken” is my lowest 8-rated episode.
If Jon really cares about Dany,he should be the one who can save her from becoming a “Mad Queen!”.
Varys said that he doesn’t have enough power to dominate her but Jon is the only one!
In previous season we saw how her character developed from be weak to a strong and powerful woman,and in this season we will see a different Daenerys.
She lost everything and everyone,she is alone now,this is a very delicate situation for her,she is struggling emotionally with herself, next episode it will be very dark,we will see a dark side of Daenerys that we didn’t see before!
I hope ep 5 will be more interested from the previous episodes,
and also I am expecting that maybe some extra dragons will come out from somewhere! Who know!
A theory about one reason why people are disliking this season, in regards to Dany:
We cheered when she burned the witch, when she burned the slavemaster, the Khals, the Lannister army, and the wights. Her character is a bad ass who has beaten every obstacle in front of her using various means of fire and blood. Viewers love her. They want her on the Iron Throne. They don’t mind that she did those things, in fact, that was some must-watch TV. The only reason they cared about the Tarlys is because Tyrion is telling them to, but honestly – they’re not! They love her character. They want her to ‘be the dragon’. Why should we hate her now for doing what we loved before, is what they’re saying.
But now they see Sansa treating her like shit, scheming against her. They see Varys announcing he’s moving against her. TWO DRAGONS ARE DEAD. I see what the show is doing, setting her up to fully embrace fire and blood, and I believe she will pay dearly for it. I think non-book reading viewers see it, too, and they don’t appreciate it. They don’t like this turn of events because it means that Dany won’t sit on the throne, and I honestly think that is what most non-book readers want. They love Dany, and right now Dany is getting pummeled left and right, and they’re furious about it.
Add that to the nonsensical-seeming plot twists that are happening too fast and so many things not being given the time to be explained to the viewers, and you’ve got a lot of pissed off people.
They’re gonna continue to watch the show because they’re invested and they want to see how it ends. But it might be hate watching. You think people have been complaining so far? Wait until Dany dies (if she does). You haven’t heard anything yet.
Ryan,
Okay, I admit this is my own wishful thinking: I was really hoping to see an Arya-Dany meet-up, especially after the way Arya talked with such admiration about dragonriding Targaryen women in her conversation with Tywin. Even a two-minute mutual fangirling between the heroine of the Frozen Lake and the heroine of the Battle for the Dawn. But I guess the plot required Arya to climb aboard Sansa’s “Jon, I don’t trust your girlfriend” train.
Or… for as-yet unknown reasons, skip out of her own victory party at which she was feted by Dany.
Oh well. If I had to choose between an Arya-Dany bonding scene and Arya riding off with Sandor, that’s a no-brainer.
(What was their exchange? Something like..,
Sandor: “If I get hurt are you going to leave me to die again?”
Arya: “Probably.”)
Damn it! Why doesn’t someone with half a brain at HBO pay these two $10 million each to star in their own show? Jane Goldman wrote “Kick-Ass.” She’d be perfect to script the show instead of an iffy prequel.
I guess it’s just that I’m going to miss Maisie Willians and Rory McCann the most 11 days from now. âšď¸
trarecar,
Well, the hints were always there that Dany is not some flawless person overall. If people only saw her as badass and expected her to win the Throne by being “badass”… well, this is still GoT where “happy ending” wasn’t really common.
Lord Parramandas,
I didn’t say they thought she was without flaws. I am saying they embrace her flaws and love her for them. Dany has not changed. How were they supposed to love her then when she lost her temper but hate her now for the same? They won’t. And that’s why it’s not working. Not enough time has been taken to show us – they’ve used Tyrion and Varys to try and sell it, and it’s not working for the regular viewer. Burning the Tarlys was not enough. If this was their plan, they should have had her being cruel and killing people much more than one time. One time is not enough to change their minds about this character.
trarecar,
Well, I was never a big fan of her in first place so I’m having no problems with this story overall. She wasn’t the character I would “root” for and I thought for a long time that it was an unpopular opinion but seeing where her story is going now, maybe my inner feeling was right.
Lord Parramandas,
Yeah, none of those episodes are ranked very high on my list, but I still gave them an 8 rating, except 3.7. I admit, sometimes I would give an episode a higher rating just because I really liked one scene. For example, âThe Nightlandsâ had Theon reuniting with his father, âThe Ghost of Harrenhalâ had Arya and Tywin, etc.
âUnbowed, Unbent, Unbrokenâ is a tricky one for me. It had Arya playing the Game of Faces with Jaquen, where itâs revealed she doesnât hate the Hound, and it has Jorah and Tyrion sailing through Valyria, among other amazing scenes. However, that Sandsnake fight really brought the episode down for me. I know Dorne gets a bad reputation, but I would say thatâs the only bad Dornish scene. The rest were pretty good. Thanks for sharing!
Even myself – I’ve read the books. I like Sansa and was rooting for her on the show. I love Dany. I love Jon. But as soon as Sansa started hating on Dany for no obvious reason given except for Sansa wanting power, it pissed me off and soured me on her character, because I like Dany’s character waaaaaaaay more than I like Sansa’s. At this point, I feel like I see what is happening and I don’t like it. I don’t have to like it and I also don’t have to apologize for not liking it. Does that make the episode itself bad? Logically, no. But people express their displeasure at the story direction by bashing the episode because they’re hoping for something that doesn’t look like is going to happen and that’s the easiest way to do it, to say the episode sucked.
Honestly, those who are tired of the complainers, y’all better buckle up. LOL
Lord Parramandas,
Long time lurker here:
My English grammar is far too moderate to participate in all the discussions, but I would like to ad that I totally agree with this: giving a 1/10 to GOT episodes is just mean spirited. Not that all episodes are perfect, but as others as said before me: people seem to be just upset that their theories are proven wrong or that their favorites bite the bullet differently than they wanted. (In all fairness I have rewritten the ending for Battlestar Galactica at least 10 times in my head, too :-)).
Some of the criticism is definitely valid but 1/10? That’s insulting to all the hard work the crew put into making the show.
My rating for this season so far:
Episode 1: 7/10 – a lot of pieces moving on the board, but it didn’t do it for me.
Episode 2: 10/10 – I loved it. The quiet before the storm, Brienne getting knighted, wonderfull conversations…
Episode 3: 9/10 – Gorgeous cinematography (apparently I can see in the dark), I loved the intensity atmosphere and I always have to chuckle when prophecies are proven wrong. I wasn’t quite fond of the “mothership solution” though.
Episode 4: 8/10 – Loved the conversations between Varys and Tyrion, funtime at Winterfell, the last ten minutes…Less fond of Euron’s superaim and Dany’s growing isolation and frustration (not madness) needed some fleshing out.
trarecar,
This wasnât the first time. She crucified an innocent man. Besides, sheâs had dark impulses in the past, but her advisers managed to reign her in. Now, sheâs lost Ser Barristan, Jorah, and now Missandei. She only has two advisers left, one being the brother of the queen sheâs fighting, the other being someone who is actively working against her.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Lord Parramandas,
Dee Stark,
It’s pretty clear people are trying to rate every episode of season 8 as low as possible. Both episode 8×1 and 8×2 have been going down since episode 4 aired. There have been like 10.000 new votes on an episode that aired 3 weeks ago and that all happened during the last few days.
There’s now no fair chance for the last two episodes to come close to a rating like earlier seasons, because these people will keep giving it 1 star ratings even if the episodes are really good, just because they don’t like how the long night was resolved in 1 episode.
trarecar,
Saying the episode sucked wonât change anything. The remaining episodes have already been shot.
Yes, I believe the hints of this nature were always there. Even the acclaimed “Dracarys” scene… yes, she liberated many slaves Astapor but at same time, she ordered genocide of entire non-slave population with exception of children. I even had my doubts there.
Young Dragon,
See, even I have forgotten about the crucified man. LOL Two is not enough, either.
I pick up what D&D are putting down. I’m just trying to explain why it’s not working for viewers, why they’re upset. Viewers LIKE her dark impulses. People love to hate Cersei, love her character in that twisted way, but they want to see her dead. Why? Because Cersei is a hateful bitch, they’ve shown us that.
Viewers LOVE Dany. They feel she is justified in her killings and it’s an exciting spectacle. They have been rooting for her for seven seasons. They want Dany to LIVE. D&D have in no way made the viewers turn on Dany, at least not yet. If they do on Sunday, okay, but I’m not even sure that one episode will be enough. If Dany dies, all hell is going to break lose because they’ve done a poor job of making anyone hate her.
trarecar,
I guess I just have a different way of watching shows. Iâve had favorite characters die before, but as long as they are good deaths that fit the story, I wonât mind. They may even end up being one of my favorite scenes. For instance, Arya is my favorite character, but I can see her dying in the upcoming conflict. If itâs a good death, I will be satisfied. The act of her dying wonât be enough to turn me off the show.
Edit: Also, thereâs one more. She fed a master to one of her dragons after Ser Barristan was killed.
trarecar,
I was prepared for this since the end of Season 7. I knew Season 8 would be the most divisive season, at least in the online community, for the reasons you gave. I wish I was wrong, but it is what it is. Theyâre comments wonât change my opinion on the season, which I find to be absolutely incredible.
trarecar,
And many viewers firmly expected a happy ending with Dany and Jon on the throne with Tyrion being their Hand and them ruling the Seven Kingdoms happily ever after. But honestly, is that “in tone” of GoT? If anything, I think GoT firmly established every character is heavily flawed. And if people saw Dany as a saint, it’s their fault because sadly, many people watched GoT for the sake of characters being “badass”. There were definitely questionable undertones present through her story.
Young Dragon,
Right, after one of her people was killed in an ambush. To the viewer – justified. The slaver people? Perhaps problematic, maybe slightly justified, but that was several seasons ago. I guess it all depends on what she does in KL. We do know Varys is going to die – Melisandre told us so, and Dany has already said she’d burn Varys alive if he turned on her. so honestly, we know that’s happening. That won’t be a shock. It’s gonna take her doing something awful to one of the beloved characters to make viewers recoil from her. Honestly, I hope they are able to make it clear, because right now Dany is a sympathetic character. She just found out about Jon, Sansa and the Northerners treated her like trash, she’s lost two dragons, Jorah and Missandei.
It’s gonna take a lot to make her unsympathetic. Will viewers be mad that they did this in one episode? Eight Ball says “Likely”. LOL It’s just going too fast.
trarecar,
Well, I, for one, saw the build up to this over many seasons, but thatâs just me. Even if she does burn Kingâs Landing, I would still be sympathetic to her, and horrified of what sheâs doing. It doesnât have to be one or the other.
End of Gendrya? Hah! I had a HUGE smile on my face at the end of the episode with regards to Arya and Gendry. This episode completely reconfirmed my belief that Arya and Gendry are endgame in every way. If you just watch the Gendrya scene, I suppose one could come to that conclusion (but even that wouldn’t have done it for me–she loves that boy so much!) but taking into account everything that has happened this season, as well as just in the episode, nope. This episode just completely confirmed my faith in Arya and Gendry being the ship that is promised.
Lord Parramandas,
How is it sad that people watch the show for badasses? Huge, exciting moments of badassery is one of the reasons that makes the show so popular, you know. I think too many here are forgetting that the VAST majority of show watchers are not geeked out like us. They don’t come here and dissect motive for hours. They’re everyday people watching a show like some other shows that YOU watch regularly but casually. There is no right way or wrong way for people to watch GoT.
Bottom line is, people are going to complain about the show due to the direction of the characters stories. You might not like it, or agree, but you can’t stop it, and you can’t invalidate how they feel, as much as you may try. LOL They’re invested, they had an ending in mind, and if D&D don’t give them that ending, I hope at least they make why it didn’t happen make sense. Until then…..
JenniferH,
When Arya turned down Gendryâs proposal, I didnât see it as turning him down. She was turning down the role of âLady of Stormâs End.â
Same could be said the other way, if not for Dany or Jon, they all would be death including Arya. Maybe it is more the Prince(s) that was promised. They all had their role too play.
But if I would have choose one PTWP of all the major players involved Jon would be nr one. He made everything possible, he got Dany to the south. Secondly I would name Bran who made everything possible on the day itself. Putting all the chess pieces on the map. Making sure all is executed at the right time.
And dany third and Arya fourth. But I think we should see it as a group effort.
Clob,
True I watched Long night twice, and it went from a 6 tot a 9,5 đ We expect to much the first time.
Ser Brocolli McBrocolliface,
It could still be 10. Season 7 structured so that the NK could be defeated at the end with a big cliff that Cersei is ready for them. Season 8 could have been still a 6 episode season with maybe a little bit shorter episodes.
Or even having this season a 7 episode 7 would have fixed the problem. Episode 4 could have been the last 20 minutes of the long night. Episode 3 ending with the sense of doom that the NK survived his dracarys. Episode 4 could even include a longer crypt scene. the whole aftermath could have been there. with maybe 1 or 2 scenes from Cersei like we got at the beginning of the season. Then episode 5 could have been second part of episode 4 with a little bit more fleshed out character moments with Missandei in KL itself making it feel like episode 7 8 and 9 from season 1 with Ned. En 5 could become 6 and 6 7.
but we got what we got, with the budget they got. the whole crew D&D did what they could with what they got.
People expected that they would work for free to give us everything we want.
Lord Parramandas,
I can understand people giving it a 6. Some had their expectations but a 1 that’s just insane in my opinion. I rated it 9,5 now or 9,6 don’t know. But I rate it with every show in mind that I ever watched. not comparing it to GoT itself. I think GoT is one of the best so it’s logical most episode rate high.
Lord Parramandas,
You’re lower then me my lowest is 8,2 if I remember correctly.
JenniferH,
Young Dragon,
I agree that it wasn’t an “I don’t love you” rejection, but more of a “I’m not a lady, so I don’t want to live the rest of my life in a castle” kind of rejection. But where does that leave them? Arya is not just going to turn around on that, and would Gendry give up his Lordship to go on adventures with her? I saw it as a “I love you and care for you a lot, but we want different things” kind of a rejection. I’d love for you to be right though, and they do end up together in some way.
Well, I rate them inside the show, not in comparison to other TV shows. Otherwise, it would be a big mess. Even though it’s not my no.1 show overall (as that title belongs to LOST in my case), GoT is my highest rated regarding individual episodes. In case of other TV shows, the ratings are more equally spanned from 7-10 with a few 6s in my case.
Hello,
in the unsullied recap post I’ve written a pretty exhaustive list of plot points that did disservice to a large number of characters. (Same as I have pointed out what in my opinion didn’t work in previous episodes.)
Now technically, a future episode can always come with a character beat that shines light on an action that the character did beforehand, changing vastly the perspective.
Usually I try not to criticise too much that which I believe/hope will turn out to be reasonable in retrospect. Sometimes I can be wrong though (unfortunately, whenever I remember to have hoped various character actions would end up making sense in the future, I was wrong – oft times happened with Sansa, the whole of Dorne, Arya in previous seasons, Daenerys, Theon, Jaime or Jon of the top of my head).
In regards to the last two episodes, I would really hope Jaime doesn’t turn out a loyal servitor to Cersei again as one specific example. I would really hope Daenerys doesn’t end up going crazy, which would indeed push the vast majority of named alive characters against her (the outlook really isn’t good on that…).
If you are interested in why my hopes go any particular way, I’d suggest looking in the Unsullied thread, copying that rather long post here seems out of place. TLDR: I believe the characters are simply not as well written as they should have been.
I have to warn you though, I simply didn’t like the last two episodes after the high point of 8×02, so I may have gotten more negative than is perhaps healthy.
Enharmony1625,
I saw it as “I love you but I’m probaby not gonna survive in doing my unfinished business” kind of thing, and I would be very happy to be wrong about this.
Lord Parramandas,
True, but what I did I rated first the episodes from 10, going down to 9,9 9,8 etc till I had every episode rated. then I looked at the lowest rated episode and compare them how I compared that episode to overall TV, and I corrected my rating by that.
My rating post was deleted somehow so I will post it later this week in a article you are commenting on. I’m wondering if you feel the same with the episode rating of me.
I still think that they’ll end up Lord and Lady of Storm’s End, running things their way. In season 01, Arya told Ned she wanted to be Lord of a holdfast. Gendry knows nothing about running anything. Arya doesn’t want to go off and have adventures. Arya wants a home, a place where she belongs. Gendry just proposed wrong. She’ll be the Lord of Storm’s End, he’ll be in the forge making her weapons.
I started firmly rating episodes after 4 seasons were already out. It’s like that with every show… I need a couple seasons to get firm idea how to rate them. As for comparison to other TV shows, it’s just impossible for me, especially with GoT.
kevin1989,
And in my case, there’s only 7, 8, 9 and 10… then I can kind of sort them in low/mid/high grades when I have the list done.
Luka Nieto,
Thank you, Luka. I cannot get over the revolting fan revolt. It’s disgusting, and in many cases, juvenile tantrum-throwing.. I have some issues, but as sheer viewing the episodes, especially 2 and 3, have been high quality. Those disgruntled, vicious ex=fans are doing “hate-rate” and encouraging more and more of it. And they’re going further with petitions, threats, etc. Gods know, I hope Episodes 5 and 6 make them rue the day they turned on the show and especially on D&D. As violent as Americans can be, I hope the guys have hired bodyguards.
I am glad that despite the criticism of the last two episodes ratings remain impressively strong. I wonder if tonight could surpass all expectations.
From my own experience when walking dead went bad around season 3-4 I simply stopped watching. I donât even know anyone who watches it anymore and you donât see any advertising in the UK. GOT is the polar opposite and continues to pull in more fans each season which indicates most people love it.
Yet I am currently watching episode two of this season on HBO 2 and wondering how itâs not considered one of the best episodes of the entire series. For me at least itâs better than any episode in the first two seasons.
I am not suggesting season 8 is perfect but people are not giving it enough credit in my view.