533 Comments

  2. Soooooo much hype. Cersei is so good at breathing like a powerful motherfucker.

    The rightful queen long may she reign

  6. Hodor?
    Awesome imagery, brilliant! And is that a white walker giant?

    Not a fan of the music, though.

  7. WOW!!!
    All three look so good!

    Loving Emilia’s outfit
    The music destroyed the mood of it imo. Should’ve kept it silent and atmospheric.

  9. Bloody amazing, loved the music that went along with the trailer 🙂
    The lyrics went perfectly with jon, dany, and Cersei 🙂
    I wonder if we’ll see the whole white walker face in the official trailer 🙂
    They seem to be showing a little at a time.

  11. the moment when you realise it doesn’t have any actual footage from season 7…
    amazing otherwise 😀

  12. AHH I’m freaking out!!I was not expecting this.But they look so good so fierce I can’t wait for July.Jon,my baby,please be gentle with him HBO he is not used to this kingly stuff lol.As a sidenote the Night King has really beautiful eyes lmao

  21. This looks great! Now I again got reminded that I need to continue my GoT rewatch. SO far, I only rewatched S1.

  25. Now THIS was a lovely surprise! I wasn’t expecting another teaser of any kind for at least another month or so. The concept for the teaser is great; I love how it draws such strong visual connections between Jon, Dany, and Cersei as they assume their respective seats of power. It may not be actual footage from the new season, but for me it definitely adds a healthy dose of fuel to the fires of hype, even as we still have over 100 days to go.

    Dany’s throne room looks absolutely killer.

  26. Jack Bauer 24:
    Is this Season 7 footage or did they stage this?

    Looks staged just for promotional purposes. But it gives us a better look at Dany’s throne in her new stronghold, and the new Lannister decoration at the Red Keep. We reported on both of them a while ago, but the teaser shows these sets in a much better light (literally and figuratively.)

  31. keltia,

    Yes, its new footage, but it is footage for promotional purposes.
    It doesn’t seem to be clips from the new season

    Still amazing tho 🙂

  34. So is it pretty much common knowledge that the S7 plot leak is all true? Everything I’ve read and scene points to it being true.

  35. Luka Nieto: Looks staged just for promotional purposes. But it gives us a better look at Dany’s throne in her new stronghold, and the new Lannister decoration at the Red Keep. We reported on both of them a while ago, but the teaser shows these sets in a much better light (literally and figuratively.)

    Also gives us a good look at the costumes, looking fantastic.

  36. Squeeeee!!! *twirls around the room* King Jon walking through Winterfell makes me so happy!!! And he looks hot as fuck.

    I was not expecting a trailer so soon. Even without actual footage, this is awesome!!!

    My initial thought when I saw Jon striding and then Dany striding was that they were going to turn a corner and come face-to-face. But then they showed Cersei so I knew what they were doing. Still, it hit the perfect tone. The 3 monarchs in Westeros striding to their respective seats of power tells me who will be the main focus this season. And then of course the Night King makes his presence known! I love it!!!

    I got a chuckle, though, when Cersei and Dany sit on actual thrones and Jon gets a wooden chair, lol. I notice that the there is only 1 chair at the hightable in WF; not like it was in the S6 finale. I hope that means that Jon will be ruling like a true king and won’t have his sister next to him at the table. Embrace the power, Jon!

  37. Cersei’s cold breath near the end was chilling (no pun intended). As someone else mentioned, she even breathes fiercely! 😀

    The eye at the end *almost* looks like it could be that of an Ice Giant (or Wight Giant) instead of the Night King. But maybe I’m just being over-hopeful. 😀

  41. BunBunStark,

    Oh I thought the same when I started watching.I was freaking out thinking it would show them coming face to face then I saw Cercei and was like ah I get it now.And yeah I think he will seat alone he is the king after all.I don’t know if he will get a hand though?Robb didn’t so probably not considering they don’t have that custom in the north but it will be Davos in all but name.

  42. 1 – Cersei redecorated with lions (was that in season finale?)

    2 – Not even hiding that Daenerys will start by taking Dragonstone, symbolic: Targaryen ancestral castle, where she was BORN, etc. She’s not an exile.

    3 – ****Some have accused from spy photos that “Daenerys is dressing like Cersei”. It’s much easier to see in this trailer how this isn’t true:

    as I said even then: Daenerys is now wearing a female variant of the Targaryen costume style that Viserys wore back in Season 1.

    Check out Viserys in episode 1: on formal occasions he wears an assymetric short cape pinned to one shoulder – such as at Daenerys’s wedding. Now she’s got the same cape thing, even the same embroidery style (like dragon-scales).

    Can someone add a comparison pic to the article? (just an archived Viserys shot)

  43. They are the Queens of Summer LONG LOVE THE KING OF THE NORTH…. btw awesome teaser…. 🙂

  46. Matthew The Dragon Knight:
    Bloody amazing, loved the music that went along with the trailer
    The lyrics went perfectly with jon, dany, and Cersei

    Initially, I didn’t like the song but after watching the teaser over and over (and over again), it’s grown on me. I especially love how when it says, “those who feel all the breath of sadness”, it shows Jon. And when it says, “those who’ve found they’re touched by madness”, it show Cersei. That is just perfect! Well done, marketing people.

    Jenny:
    Jon,my baby,please be gentle with him HBO he is not used to this kingly stuff lol.

    Yes, please treat our too-kind-for-his-own-good king gently, show. I mean, jeez, even in the teaser he already looks overwhelmed by the weight on his shoulders.

  47. I’m hype. Jon looks beautiful! Cersei’s wardrobe is killer, though that icy breath at the end made me lol. I like Dany’s little braid there, but the chair is a bit too low for her.

  50. It is nice to have a new teaser so soon after the previous one, and wow this is an awesome teaser!

    The three rulers of westeros, each of them very different from the other, and the Nights King. Or it almost looks like a wight dragon.

  51. When I first saw the teaser I thought Jon was walking in the crypts of Winterfell lol. I hope I wasn’t the only one.

  52. I’m gonna die, guys…yesterday, WB released the trailer for the new version of “It” which is my second favorite horror movie of all time (behind the shining), also, Lana del Rey (one of my favorite artists) announced her fourth album, and now, one epic teaser for my favorite tv show of all time. I’m in heaven…

  53. HBO has just made up for the Ice Block fiasco with this… All is forgiven! What a great teaser! Cersei looks so beautiful and dangerous, I love her.

  55. These shots are mirrored and don’t match up: When we see Daenerys from behind, her cape is off of her left shoulder, but when we see her from the front, it’s off her RIGHT shoulder. Anachronism!

  56. Last year the RED BAND trailer was released at March 8 and the season started at April 26, so this year should be late May for the first trailer with new footage.

  57. Nice. Though it just got me looking at the calendar and realizing if this was like any previous year GOT would have had the season premiere last Sunday.

  58. Mark my words Watchers
    the first official Trailer will release in May.
    if they want to catch me off guard, Late April 🙂

  59. Sean C.:
    Dragonstone has been spruced up considerably from its prior appearances on the show.

    It looks gorgeous. I fear, though, that they’ll give it that dark tint for the show and we won’t be able to see any of the details. Dragonstone in S2-S4 was dark as hell. Even in closeups, I couldn’t make out the details of Aegon’s painted table.

  60. BunBunStark: Initially, I didn’t like the song but after watching the teaser over and over (and over again), it’s grown on me. I especially love how when it says, “those who feel all the breath of sadness”, it shows Jon. And when it says, “those who’ve found they’re touched by madness”, it show Cersei. That is just perfect! Well done, marketing people.

    Yes, please treat our too-kind-for-his-own-good king gently, show. I mean, jeez, even in the teaser he already looks overwhelmed by the weight on his shoulders.

    Does any other TV show promote their show better than Game of thrones ?

  61. BunBunStark:
    Squeeeee!!! *twirls around the room* King Jon walking through Winterfell makes me so happy!!! And he looks hot as fuck.

    I was not expecting a trailer so soon. Even without actual footage, this is awesome!!!

    My initial thought when I saw Jon striding and then Dany striding was that they were going to turn a corner and come face-to-face. But then they showed Cersei so I knew what they were doing. Still, it hit the perfect tone. The 3 monarchs in Westeros striding to their respective seats of power tells me who will be the main focus this season. And then of course the Night King makes his presence known! I love it!!!

    I got a chuckle, though, when Cersei and Dany sit on actual thrones and Jon gets a wooden chair, lol. I notice that the there is only 1 chair at the hightable in WF; not like it was in the S6 finale. I hope that means that Jon will be ruling like a true king and won’t have his sister next to him at the table. Embrace the power, Jon!

    Yeah, this pretty much echoes a lot of my thoughts on the teaser! It seems that rather than going for a season two Robb look for Jon (following on from the season one Ned look he sported in season six), they are really going for a King of Winter vibe with his costuming. And it is stunning! Loving Daenerys’s costume just as much – far more Westerosi than anything we’ve seen her in before. And I adore that dress of Cersei’s.

    I actually like the fact that Jon is in a chair, while Daenerys and Cersei are on thrones; I think it kind of reflects the fact that Jon is more of a leader than a ruler. The single chair is interesting, though, and it makes me wonder how much Jon will involve Sansa in his rule. Jon needs to prove (and I hope he does) that he has learned from his time as Lord Commander.

    The trailer highlights the three main power factions moving into season seven – and then the presence of the Night King reminds us, as Commander Mormont did in 110, that when dead things come hunting in the night, does it really matter who sits on the Iron Throne?

  62. O

    M

    G

    WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT

    I AM SO EXCITED AND I HAVENT WATCHED IT YET BECAUSE I AM AT WORK

  65. Alba Stark: The trailer highlights the three main power factions moving into season seven – and then the presence of the Night King reminds us, as Commander Mormont did in 110, that when dead things come hunting in the night, does it really matter who sits on the Iron Throne?

    Love this 🙂

  66. I am reading peoples comments and seeing that Dany is queen of Dragonstone.
    Yes, I know that the Targs are from Dragonstone, but is that obvious from the video, or these people saying that because it was reported through a spoiler?

  67. Mind blown!! Is Cersei a secret White Walker? Or will she end up being the pale queen to the Night King??

  70. I updated the wiki costumes database, with comparison shots:

    http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Costumes:_King%27s_Landing#King.27s_Landing_under_the_Targaryens

    Daenerys is dressing in a female version of the “old Targaryen style” that Viserys wore back in Season 1;

    http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/gameofthrones/images/4/40/S7_Daenerys_teaser_costume.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/287?cb=20170330180259

    http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/gameofthrones/images/4/49/Targaryen_shouder_capes.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/640?cb=20170330181118

  72. KG:
    Amazingly, shockingly, staggeringly, remarkably … uninspiring.-_-

    I have to agree! HBO could do something better and show actual clips from S7. I wasn’t impressed 🙁

  73. Please dear gods please give me a scene of Jon and Dany around the painted table and please let there be good lightning during the scene.

  75. I am equally surprised how soon this has come, I was expecting a second teaser towards the end of April and a full trailer in the second half of May. Dare we be optimistic and expect the full trailer early May now and a second trailer in June?

  76. I’ll take it! It’s nice to see HBO making an effort to actually generate buzz during this year’s dry spell. I tragically missed the ice melting fiasco because of work, but I still remember season 5’s “sight” campaign and last year’s buildup to….faces on a wall. Dropping unannounced promotional material that actually features new footage of characters in costume, even if it’s all staged, is miles ahead of what they usually do at this point in the production cycle. I’m not expecting a trailer until May, so I’ll take all the hype I can get in the meantime.

  77. Jenny:
    Also Old Nan was right they really do live in the eye of a blue eyed giant lol.

    This is the second straight teaser to end this way… If only they all had listened to old Nan!

  80. Incidentally, I hope that Dany actually going to Dragonstone will be an opportunity for the show to incorporate her backstory onscreen. Dany has been calling herself “Daenerys Stormborn” for six seasons now without any explanation, nor has how she and Viserys came to be the only surviving Targaryens ever been spelled out.

  82. Sean C.,

    Tyrion did say in “Hardhome” that she was born during the greatest storm seen in living memory. I doubt there will be any more exposition about it tbh.

  83. Jenny,

    Think about the ending to the first Men in Black movie which showed the location of a Galaxy. Combine that with the globe thingie in the ceiling of the Citadel library and the beginning credits of each episode. Somehow that correlates with the old Nan story.

  84. It’s interesting they haven’t shown Jon sitting – even on that modest chair at the table. It looks like the message was: two overentilted brats and one true man to deal with both of them. 🙂

  87. The Dragon Demands:
    These shots are mirrored and don’t match up: When we see Daenerys from behind, her cape is off of her left shoulder, but when we see her from the front, it’s off her RIGHT shoulder.Anachronism!

    That’s not an anachronism. It’s a continuity error. Anachronism would be if she were wearing a costume from the wrong historical era.

  88. Oh, forget winter, Cersei is coming! Her ice breath made me feel sudden cold. Marry her to the Night King and she’ll strangle him during their wedding night.
    I paused the video to have a better stare at Dany’s throne, which looked like a window in a pile of wood, weird as hell.
    I like the concept of the teaser, showing the long journeys the characters have experienced.

  90. Well, it’s nice to get a teaser, but what a horrible choice for the soundtrack music! Why do they always use contemporary pop songs for these promos? They don’t exactly support a sense of immersion in a Dark Ages milieu. In fact, I find them annoyingly distracting.

  91. Sean C.,

    Tyrion mentioned that Dany was born during a storm in Hardhome, but it general – yes, her backstory has no been addressed yet. I wonder, if she learns something about her mother. It would be right if she saught to establish connection with her mother after acknowledging that her father was a piece of shit and her mother’s grave has to be on Dragonstone, right? Maybe, that will lead Dany (and us) to Rhaegar and the entire PTWP prophecy thing? Maybe, Melisandre will have some part in this? So many exciting possibilities. Can’t wait till July.

  94. I also thought Jon was walking through the crypts at WF. Nice teaser.
    I am surprised we got it that early. I guess it makes sense, the season 6 teaser was released in about the same time span prior from the premier.

  95. I am obsessed with this!! I can’t believe how far these characters have come. You never would have guessed at the beginning that these would be the final players.

    Also Jon has the best blue steel face out of all of them

  96. Inga,

    He is definitely not into or comfortable with sitting and ruling. He has a LOT of work to do lol and I think prefers to be working with people rater than ruling over them. He is the only one of the three who did not consciously decide to be king.

  97. loved it!! jon looks AMAZING..he is the hero with the weight of the world on his shoulders..and like someone said before.. Dany and Cersie mugging it on their thrones (looking DAMN good doing so I have to add) only make it more vivid who Westeros REALLY needs . ..

    prolly reading too much in to it..but wonder if it means anything that they had Cersie do the cold breath, instead of Jon or Dany (or even all three together)

  98. People have complained in the past about Dany not wearing Targaryen colors, but I seeing her in them after all this time makes it clear that it was a wise decision to hold off. It was so impactful seeing her in red!

  99. As long as this is all we have to scrutinize under a microscope for the moment, let’s go whole-hog:

    The wind of winter snuffing out the candles echoes the scene last season where Arya slices the flame off the candle with Needle just before killing the Waif. Is this intentional, I wonder? Are we meant to be reminded that Arya is a sort of wild card that may interfere in unanticipated ways with these three characters’ ability to stay on their thrones? Or am I reading waaaay too much into that visual?

  100. BunBunStark: Dragonstone in S2-S4 was dark as hell.

    Jenny,
    I’d like to suggest when the time comes to check and/or fiddle with the brightness on the device or tv you’re watching the episode. On my main television I watch each episode when they initially air I’ve had very few issues with scenes being too dark. However, if I pull up an episode through HBO Go on my phone or tablet a lot of night and interior scenes are. I simply turn off the auto brightness function and that typically eliminates all of the too dark scenes.

  102. Cool trailer. I liked it and the concept of it a lot. Music selection is my one complaint. It’s abysmal.

  103. Black Raven,

    I’m not even worried about actual footage; I have no problem at all with a scripted teaser. I just don’t think this one delivered much of a punch.

    And the music stank. Seriously, it’s always the downfall of these things.

  104. Firannion,

    Whether intentional or not, the candles-snuffing did remind me of Arya’s scene last season.

    Oh, and I just loved Cersei’s look in this trailer. The costumes and wardrobe departments outdo themselves every season.

  105. selena,

    Cersei doing “the cold breath”?
    Followed right after by the blue eye of The Night King?

    Maybe our boy has found his queen.

  106. If you look closely at Cersei’s costume, it looks like a thicker wool than she has worn before. I’ll bet her breathing out the cold air is symbolic of the fact that Winter has come to Kings Landing…

  108. Two trailers released so far and none of it looks like actual footage from the show. And I could care less. I’m pumped.

  109. OMG Omg! I just saw it on FB! don’t know what it all means but I can’t wait to find out. For now, let the post floodgates open ! (now I need to go back and play catch up…)

  113. Lord Parramandas:
    This looks great! Now I again got reminded that I need to continue my GoT rewatch. SO far, I only rewatched S1.

    Oh yes this would be a very good start. Might start with six because ive only seen it once. Then back to one

  116. ash,

    I always rewatch GoT before the next season. No exceptions. But I’m moving with snail’s pace this year…

  120. The Bastard:
    Two trailers released so far and none of it looks like actual footage from the show. And I could care less. I’m pumped.

    I totally agree! And I need to go watch it again and look for more of the details (and yeah i agree with others – I thought they were going to turn a corner and face each other – but this just fine, all in their places…

  121. selena,

    if it means anything that they had Cersie do the cold breath, instead of Jon or Dany (or even all three together)

    I think it’s a hint that Cersei will somehow take the side of the Night King and not the first one. There were some in the In Production trailer too – at least that’s how I red them.

  122. Flayed Potatoes,

    I’d be a blubbering mess. Jon to statue: “I always wondered who you were – where you were. And you were here all the time.”

    I don’t care if it’s fan service schlock. Bring on the feels!

  125. Pigeon,

    She absolutely is! And damn stylish – the long-awaited red-and-black Targaryen attire suits her. She, Lena, and Kit all look regal as hell.

  126. Flayed Potatoes,

    Can you imagine if we ever get a scene of Jon in the crypts lighting candles for his mother? I’ll cry buckets.

    I’m crying just reading your comment 🙂

  127. Flayed Potatoes,

    Yeah… I’ve been waiting for years for Jon to descend to the crypts at the beginning of winter, when he finally discovers her identity, to place a garland of blue roses on her.

  128. Chreechree:
    Flayed Potatoes,

    I’d be a blubbering mess. Jon to statue: “I always wondered who you were – where you were. And you were here all the time.”

    I don’t care if it’s fan service schlock.Bring on the feels!

    YES!!!

  130. ash: Might start with six because ive only seen it once.

    That’s odd to me but I have friends that have watched each episode of the series no more than twice too, but they love it. I guess I have a lot of spare time or am just super obsessed… Well, I guess both of those are true because I can’t even guess the number of times I’ve watched most of every episode.

  131. Flayed Potatoes:
    Chreechree,

    Can you imagine if we ever get a scene of Jon in the crypts lighting candles for his mother? I’ll cry buckets.

    I really hope that at some point in the future we do get a scene – even if it is a short one – with Jon at Lyanna’s tomb, paying his respects to his mother. Ned, Bran, Sansa and Rickon have all had crypt scenes – Jon has to have one too! Pretty please?

  132. Jenny:
    Also Old Nan was right they really do live in the eye of a blue eyed giant lol.

    Hahahahahahaha… quite interesting indeed.

    Damn, Michele Clapton and the costume department outdo themselves yearly.

    No Euron, though he’s not really on the same power level or character importance level as these three monarchs.

    Love the Lannister decorations in the throne room, and the Dragonstone throne.

    Hyped!!!

  133. The King in the North!!! For a second there, I swore he and Dany were going to end up face to face. Ah well. July!!!

  134. unfitting music. The two queens seemed to be very confident, but Jon did not look very happy….

  135. Inga: I think it’s a hint that Cersei will somehow take the side of the Night King and not the first one. There were some in the In Production trailer too – at least that’s how I red them.

    I don’t think that anybody can take the side of the Night King. The time has long since come and gone for establishing that the NK would have allies among humans. And I write this as someone who once held the idea that Littlefinger was working for the Walkers (an idea that had some popularity 10+ years ago, but which really died after absolutely nothing came out in Crows to support it).

    Indeed, for Cersei, the problem will be the other way around. The southerners do not believe in White Walkers or wights. She will dismiss any stories about them as just that: stories. This could be an issue if Jon is trying to get support from the south against the Walkers.

  136. Fab trailer ! The top 3 looking good ? Not likeing the track chosen to accompany the trailer though . Not a fan of that perticular track by Indie band James . The trailer needed something more darker and more powerful something like Chris Issac …Wicked Game ! … Rooms on fire no one can save me but you …strange what desire will make foolish people do .. much much better ?

  137. Sean C.: Dany has been calling herself “Daenerys Stormborn” for six seasons now without any explanation, nor has how she and Viserys came to be the only surviving Targaryens ever been spelled out.

    Why do these things need to be explained? Unless they have some bearing on this season’s story or the remaining plot, it’s just useless detail. At best, it accomplishes nothing and at worst these sorts of trivial items detract from the story and/or the plot.

  138. Ryan Neuner: No Euron, though he’s not really on the same power level or character importance level as these three monarchs.

    Indeed, Euron is a tertiary character at best. At this point, we have three monarchs, all of whom are main characters, and two of whom are the co-primary (or primariest! 🙂 ) protagonists of the over-arching story.

  139. What is the song that is being played? Two years ago, they used Bowie’s Heroes, which was perfect because the song tells a very similar story to the Crows/Dragons book. I seem to recall that last year’s teaser song did the same (although it was not a song that I knew).

  141. I Just realised that apparently they do all live inside the eye of a blue-eyed giant named Macumber. 😀 Might be a call-back to season one.

    Wimsey,

    A cover of this.

  142. Wimsey,

    The song is a version of “Sit down” by James… last year a cover version of “Wicked game” performed by James Vincent McMorrow was used for the S6 promo.

  143. Sean C.: Dany has been calling herself “Daenerys Stormborn” for six seasons now without any explanation

    Well, in season five, when recounting what he had heard about her, Tyrion did say she was “born in the worst storm in living memory”, hence the nickname, but it’s true the show has not detailed their escape from the capital, or their brief stay in Dragonstone. Maybe she’ll bring it up. Though I’m pretty sure she can’t remember any of it, of course. She was just a baby.

    Lord Parramandas: I always rewatch GoT before the next season. No exceptions. But I’m moving with snail’s pace this year…

    It’s 10 hours harder each year.

  144. QueenofThrones,

    Not sure but I don’t think she has ever worn ‘red’ before, tho red on the show is more like Sangria , except on the sigil flags.
    At least she is wearing black and red.
    Was hoping to see that sigil in the throne room, maybe that’s in post production?
    Does Dany ever get a crown? Her mother’s is still about.
    I guess since the Targaryens didn’t have their ’empire’ yet they keep the throne room spartan. That throne is much more austere than the Iron one.

  145. Imagine – Jon in the Winterfell crypts at Lyanna’s tomb, Dany at her mother’s at Dragonstone.

  148. So what is Dany going to do when she sees that room in Dragonstone where Selyse kept Stannis’ pickled babies?

  149. Luka Nieto:

    It’s 10 hours harder each year.

    Well, with my way of watching, that means at least 10 days. I never watch more than one episode a day. It’s one of my personal rules.

  150. Wimsey,

    It’s a pitty, you don’t read the leaks, because they contain similar hints as well. But I don’t want to spoil you.

  152. Adam,

    It looks like the lighting and makeup contouring are designed to show Dany with the smooth, round face of youth (Jon as well) but Cersei’s lighting and makeup makes her look older and a bit worn. Both women are airbrushed within an inch of their lives, but in totally different ways.

    It’s really beautiful makeup work.

  153. Pigeon:
    Imagine – Jon in the Winterfell crypts at Lyanna’s tomb, Dany at her mother’s at Dragonstone.

    I’m imagining…and I’m liking. Make it so, D&D!

  155. Firannion,

    It’s interesting you had that association with Arya. I was thinking of that unintentionally when watching the teaser and something occurred to me. Namely, Melisandre’s prophesy to Arya: brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes – eyes she will shut forever. Brown eyes – show!Jon, blue eyes – show!dany, green eyes – Cersey (both show and books). As Arya is or will be an incarnation of death, it kind of makes sense that she takes out both Jon and Dany eventually – IMO, not only dragons, but also Targs will have to go along with the WW to restore the ultimate balance. And Cersei is on Arya’s list anyway… But maybe I am overthinking – it would be the plot for S8, rather than for S7. But one thing I have to admit: the blue eye at the end indeed was an ey of a giant-wight, not of the Night King. So, I don’t know: just a crazy tin-foil theory.

  157. They’ve been hyping up the Night King. I hope he has more screen time this season then any other so far. White Walkers usually get only 1 episode per season and since Season 7 is seven episodes, I’m hoping to see them at least 2-3 times.

  159. I am really glad I saw this somewhere else where the Walker King’s presence wasn’t revealed. As it was, I just got to enjoy the promo enjoying the King and Queens step toi their thrones and then BOOM! that cold breath of air and then the pulling away from the Walker King. Had I known before seeing it, I would have been waiting for him.

    Just saying… I’d suggest taking his presence in the promo OUT of the pre-cut commentary.

  164. A Dornish Tyrell: The song is a version of “Sit down” by James… last year a cover version of “Wicked game” performed by James Vincent McMorrow was used for the S6 promo.

    Man, what uplifting happy lyrics.

  166. Flayed Potatoes: So what is Dany going to do when she sees that room in Dragonstone where Selyse kept Stannis’ pickled babies?

    One guesses that Stannis left only a skeleton crew at Dragonstone? And they just skedaddled when they heard …. saw? a humongous armada bearing down?

  168. Flayed Potatoes:
    Jack Bauer 24,

    Where are you getting all this info from? My youtube views bar broke a long time ago and is stuck at 400k lol

    I’m going by the FB video views. I haven’t seen the YT views yet. I remember the Season 6 trailer having around 30+ million views, but that was the full trailer. This is just a tease and already over 23 mil!

  170. Inga,

    The Grrm Reaper would not make Arya some sort of Angel of Death to kill everyone. That’d be a cheap, nihilistic ending.

  172. The chilly breath of Cersei at the end makes me wonder if they are foreshadowing that she will not join in a human alliance against White Walkers and be happy to let those guys wipe her rivals out.

    I know nothing, just a thought.

  173. Awesome trailer!

    Yeah it looks like the white walker is looking at the wall (reflection on the right part of his eye, at 1:13).

  174. JACK MEYAOPHER:
    CLEGANEBOWL CONFIRMED

    You know, I’ve always been on the fence about Cleganebowl, but I had a sudden thought the other day (it happens occasionally) – would there really be as much satisfaction involved now that Gregor is pretty much a zombie? That whole hatred was so personal – would killing a Gregor that isn’t probably capable of perhaps even knowing Sandor anymore be worth it? Or am I not giving FrankenGregor enough credit here, maybe he still would? I kind of just think of him as a giant undead machine now.

  175. Ten Bears:
    BunBunStark,

    “Stannis’s Pickled Babies.”Good name for a rock band. You should call dibs

    If I may leap fandoms to the Discworld for a moment: They sound like something that C. M. O. T. Dibbler would sell from his food-vendor cart, alongside Rats Onna Stick.

  176. Sean C.,

    It’s explained in the early chapters in dany’s POV in the books, I doubt it will be in the show as they aren’t known for their back stories. The Mad King sent away his wife Rhaella and son Viserys with a handful of knights when the war was on to Dragonstone to protect them. One night there was a massive storm the biggest Westeros had ever seen and that was the night Dany was born, her mother died soon after giving birth to her aka Stormborn, Dany may also use it in regards to her mother dying to give her life. A knight at Dragonstone called Ser Willem Darry heard about what happened to Elia and her children and with Stannis on his way didn’t want the same to happen to Viserys and Dany so we went into the nursery took them and sailed to Braavos with a decent size home and from what Dany remembers a red door and a lemon tree out the back. Willem Darry was a older knight so he was sickly and eventually died when Dany was four, the servants took all his money so Dany and Viserys had to leave and start fending for themselves, I believe in their childhood they lived in about nine different cities. While Viserys dreamed about having back silks, riches and a crown back, Dany dreamed of the Red Door and the Lemon tree and those dreams have still stayed with her into adulthood. While the show may possibly mention the red door and lemon tree as that is such a big thing for Dany’s character in the books I don’t see them going in to her back story now, it’s too late in the game for that.

  177. Pigeon: would there really be as much satisfaction involved now that Gregor is pretty much a zombie? That whole hatred was so personal – would killing a Gregor that isn’t probably capable of perhaps even knowing Sandor anymore be worth it?

    I agree with you. For me, the story has moved way beyond the point where Cleganebowl would be very meaningful. It would represent a pointless regression in Sandor’s character arc. And I don’t believe that in the big picture, GRRM comes down on the side of vengeance being the be-all and end-all of long-term payoffs. It’s too simplistic.

  182. Wimsey: it’s just useless detail.At best, it accomplishes nothing and at worst these sorts of trivial items detract from the story and/or the plot.

    Not everyone agrees that they detract. For many of us, including rather than excluding backstory detail enriches the story.

  183. Firannion,

    I do believe Ten Bears was (sarcastically) using his/her Mangled Apricot Hellbeast voice. DJT would never use a word such as “undocumented”; not only is it humane, it also contains an excessive number of syllables.

  184. Looks like Cersei has green eyes… Cersei needs to stay away from Arya.

    Dany shuts her eyes, then Cersei shuts her eyes, then Jon shuts his eyes and then the candles are blown out. Does this mean anything?

    I am going to count how many candles are blown out…

  185. Firannion,

    As I’ve written elsewhere, I agree with you wholeheartedly on this point. It would definitely be a character regression for Sandor. (Of course, I want Arya to take FrankenMountain’s ass out for both of them, after she openly acknowledges that the real reason she refused to give Sandor mercy is that deep down, she really didn’t want him dead.)

  186. They really do the best trailers!!! SO MYCH HYPE!!! Dany looks amazing!! And yes, Winter is Coming Cersei!!!!!

  187. That was so good, loved them building upon Cersei’s pantsuit in the last season and making it into a regal dress, Jon well he did look the same as last season and I love they kept his scar above his eyebrow but still really amazing seeing him, Dany loved her finally wearing the Targaryen colours, I do wish we had seen more details in her dress though and I’m glad I was right in thinking her wig would look a million times better in darker scenes it really look amazing here. Can’t wait to see more of this season, dies anyone know if the trailer or 28 pictures they released came out first last year so I know which one to look forward to?

  188. Moka:

    Yeah it looks like the white walker is looking at the wall (reflection on the right part of his eye, at 1:13).

    Yeah, I see the reflection of the Wall as well. And it makes sense because really, at this point, what else could he be looking at?? This story is winding down and the Night King has been wandering beyond the Wall for 6 seasons now. It’s about time he makes his way to the Wall.

    I’m already seeing speculation that Cersei’s breath showing is a sign that she’ll side with the NK…yeah, no. How exactly does one form an alliance with Death?? Not even Littlefinger could pull that off. We know from the S6 finale that Winter is here. Cersei’s cold breath just means that Winter is making it’s way further south. *shrug*

  189. HBO’s description of the teaser:

    It’s a long walk in the quest to control the Iron Throne–and the road is paved with ice.

  193. Dany’s throne looks like a driftwood throne. The Driftwood Throne was the old seat of house Velaryon (a pre-Targaryen valyrian house in Westeros who had their seat on an island close to Dragonstone). I don’t really think they will bring that complexity in though. Maybe they just thought the idea of a driftwood throne was cool and placed one in Dragonstone?

  194. One more interesting oservation for those who love detais. Cersei’s dress (BTW she will be wearing it in Ep 1 based on the leaked photos from Dubrovnik) has a very interesting colar: it’s all covered with spikes. Looks like the Mad Queen is taking measures against the Valonqar prophesy.

  195. Jenny,

    I think Catelyn was practically Robb’s second in charge so he didn’t need a hand and Davos will be if not called a hand at least Jon’s greatest advisor. I don’t think Jon will take for granted how neither him or Sansa could convince any of the northern lords to fight for them against Ramsay but Davos could convince Lyanna Mormont to.

  196. Wow! I had to sneak watch the first time w/o music lol. Watched it a few times now. If you’ve watched HBO/The Young Pope intro, HBO/GoT has also embraced the power of “The Slow-Mo Walk”, I loved it!
    The Young Pope, Jude Law walks to a cover of Jimi Hendrix Watchtower…brilliant.

  197. Wolfish:
    Firannion,

    I do believe Ten Bears was (sarcastically) using his/her Mangled Apricot Hellbeast voice. DJT would never use a word such as “undocumented”; not only is it humane, it also contains an excessive number of syllables.

    You didn’t see my tongue stuck in my cheek as I typed that? Sorry – I should’ve added a wink emoji or something.

  198. selena,

    I think it makes the biggest impact of Cersei having the cold breath because out of the three of them she is the furthest south, the furthest away from the wall and the White Walkers and if the cold is reaching her it means shit is about to go down. Also remember Dany saw in S2 in the house of the undying Kings Landing with a hole in the roof and covered in snow so it’s showing that vision or hallucination may just be coming to pass.

  199. Maginor:
    Dany’s throne looks like a driftwood throne. The Driftwood Throne was the old seat of house Velaryon

    Too late for that. The TV show already changed the name of the Iron Islands’ Seastone Chair to the Driftwood Throne. I think I read somewhere that the Targ throne on Dragonstone (in the show) is supposed to look like stones piled up in the silhouette of a dragon.

  200. Inga,

    You wrote: “Don’t know about GRRM, but D&D aready did that. You hanven’t been paying attention. Rewatch the Children or Mel’s prophesy. .

    When I said I don’t believe Arya will turn into some sort of “Angel of Death” to kill everyone, I was replying to the suggestion that she’d kill Jon Snow because he has brown eyes, Daeny because she has blue eyes (does she?), and Cersei because she has green eyes. That’s what I meant by a “cheap, nihilistic ending.” I just cannot fathom Arya killing Jon or his aunt.

    I have been paying attention. I’m embarrassed to say I’ve probably rewatched and dissected every one of Arya’s scenes no less than ten times. That includes everything in “The Children”, and Melisandre’s “Eyes you will shut forever” prediction to Arya.

    I saw absolutely nothing in “The Children” [S4e10] or the earlier Melisandre-Arya encounter that would hint she’d kill Jon or Dany. Please enlighten me. If I overlooked something, I will admit that I was wrong and ask foregiveness.

    And one other thing: If the show follows the book trajectory as I understand it*, Arya can’t be the one to take out
    Cersei.

    But please: tell me what you think I missed in “The Children” and the Mel-Arya scene, and I’ll rewatch them again and make sure I “pay attention” this time around.

    * Not really a spoiler at this juncture, but

    if the Valanqor prophecy turns out to be accurate – and Maggy the Frog has been on the money thus far – Cersei’s strangler has to be male.

  201. Jenny:
    BunBunStark,

    I don’t know if he will get a hand though?Robb didn’t so probably not considering they don’t have that custom in the north but it will be Davos in all but name.

    Mel:
    Jenny,

    I think Catelyn was practically Robb’s second in charge so he didn’t need a hand and Davos will be if not called a hand at least Jon’s greatest advisor.

    I’m not too familiar with GRRM’s history of Westeros and I’ve been wondering, is the Hand of the King an actual title in the North? As stated, Catelyn played the role of Robb’s most trusted advisor. And last season, Davos played that role for Jon, so it would seem natural if he became the Hand of the King. But is that a thing in the North?

  202. At 0:16 when we see Dany from behind, her red cloak looks like dragon scales. That is so awesome. The costume designers on this show are so damn good.

  205. Inga:
    It’s interesting they haven’t shown Jon sitting – even on that modest chair at the table. It looks like the message was: two overentilted brats and one true man to deal with both of them.

    I was also intrigued about that too. You see the empty chair and him supposedly standing behind or next to the chair… Could this mean that there would be kind of a shuffle or re-organization if Bran finally gets to Winterfell? Does it mean last season’s exchange of looks between Sansa and Littlefinger will develop into some trouble for Jon and his new rule?

    I don’t know… I’m just happy we have something new to talk about!

  207. BunBunStark,

    I don’t think it is.As far as I know it came with Aegon the Conqueror and Orys Baratheon was the first hand and then it carried on from that.So it is very much a Targ and southern tradition.

  208. Firannion,

    Ten Bears,

    I can see why people may think the candles blowing out reminds them of Arya as that is such a big scene for her last season. Though I personally think the candles blowing out are in reference to the long night which is the last time the White Walkers came Winter overtook Westeros but not only winter darkness overtook Westeros as well, during the long night there was no sunlight which made everything so much worse. That went on for years, though they may make references to it, I’m not sure we will see the The Long Night in GOT as D&D might just make the war go on for months not years like the long night.

  209. Flayed Potatoes,

    I’ve always thought about that, what ever happened to those half formed babies in pickle jars? If those are still there I could totally see Dany freaking out about it, would see dispose of the, dump them in the ocean, make a pyre for them?

  212. BunBunStark,

    I don’t think it is the norm for Northerners, I’m pretty sure their family plays bigger parts in the politics than Southerners also it seemed to me the Maesters are quite important and play a advisor role in the North like Ned relied upon their Maester Luwin who was really close to their family, not only did he teach the Stark Children knowledge and cared for them he gave advice to Ned and Catelyn and they trusted him more with secrets than anyone else. I do not think their current Maester who was Maester to Ramsay and now Jon Maester Wolkan will be held in the same high regard as Luwin which is why I think Davos will be the highest advisor at least.

  213. GhostCR: I was also intrigued about that too. You see the empty chair and him supposedly standing behind or next to the chair…

    Er… wasn’t he sitting in it in the end? He just had a chair and was shown only at the shoulders.

  214. In addition to the spikes (I was hoping they were lion’s teeth, but alas), Cersei also has a lion’s head sewn onto the collar of her dress. So we’ve got Jon sporting two direwolves on his gorget, Dany with dragon scales on her cloak, and Cersei with the lion’s head on her dress. Seriously, I am in love with the attention to detail on the costumes this year.

  215. Ten Bears: The Grrm Reaper would not make Arya some sort of Angel of Death to kill everyone. That’d be a cheap, nihilistic ending.

    It would be completely arbitrary, to say the least!

    BunBunStark: ow exactly does one form an alliance with Death?? Not even Littlefinger could pull that off. We know from the S6 finale that Winter is here. Cersei’s cold breath just means that Winter is making it’s way further south. *shrug*

    heh, well, as I noted, ~15 years ago, it was a popular conjecture. However, if that were the case, then GRRM should have set something up in Crows/Dragons linking the Walkers to LF. In that time, we actually have gotten nothing about the Walkers in the books. However, it’s pretty clear that on the show, they don’t seek allies of any sort: they do not seem to view the world as “Us” and “Them.” If they were going that route, then B&W (and GRRM) should have set up some evidence that “agents” for the Walkers were in, say, the Watch and/or among the Wildlings. Again, ~15 years ago, this was one of the ideas for how they would get the Wall down. At this point, suddenly having the Walkers have agents and alliances would be like having the Old Gods revive Jon or Jon exist mentally in Ghost last year!

    Back then, I think that this might have been influenced by Babylon 5, where the Shadows had agents & allies hidden away among the “good guys.” However, back then it also seemed plausible that the Walkers were like the Shadows, i.e., mega-scale Social Darwinists.

  216. Mel,

    I agree with you… My interpretation is that the Winds of Winter are bringing the Long Night (thus the image of the candles being blown off by the wind).

    Inga,

    Please consider covering any hints or information regarding the leaked photos and scripts with spoiler-tags… Some of us still want to remain unspoiled as long as possible.

    Wimsey,

    If you think this has a happy ending, you having been paying attention… :p

  217. If this is a blue-eyed giant and not the Night’s King, perhaps it is the Great Other?

    Anyone else think the show will present Jon, Dany, and Cersei as the three heads of the dragon?

    Jon – Targaryen / Stark
    Dany – Targaryen / Targaryen
    Cersei – Targaryen / Lannister

  219. Lonely Cat: the Night’s King, perhaps it is the Great Other?

    I would bet that the Great Other and the Night’s King are one and the same. I have always thought that the fact that R’hllor calls its foe “Other,” i.e., singular for what the book characters usually call the White Walkers, is probably a hint about R’hllor’s origins. R’hllor likely began as someone who called the White Walkers “Others” and who realizes that there is a leader that directs them: the Great Other.

    And, no, Cersei is not part of the three. Tyrion might be, but not Cersei. And there is no way that Cersei has much Targaryen in her. Oh, I am sure that the Lannisters probably married some descendant of the Targaryens at some point – all of the Great Houses should be related – but she obviously is much less Targaryen than, say, the Baratheons were.

  221. Alba Stark,

    Great image. Arya hasn’t had a scene there either. She’d be moved to be in front of Ned’s effigy. In fact, I’d like to see her and Jon there together, paying their respects. They always were the closest Starks and the two who most looked like and took after Ned.

  222. Dany’s throne is not made of wood or driftwood. It matches

    the awesome Spanish location shoot in the filming reports with the striated rock formations pushed up at an angle that will stand in for Dragonstone.

    Luka would remember the name of the location.

    This teaser is a nice tidbit to keep us going a little longer. Amazing how the 80’s sound is coming back in music these days…

  223. Clob: That’s odd to me but I have friends that have watched each episode of the series no more than twice too, but they love it.I guess I have a lot of spare time or am just super obsessed…Well, I guess both of those are true because I can’t even guess the number of times I’ve watched most of every episode.

    Im not big on rewatching shows, but it might be a generational thing since I didn’t grow up with instant on demand screening for me to be able to do that. Now, I have read books 1-3 at least 3 times, probably more, thats more typical for me

    But this show is different; after season 3, I started watching all of the episodes before the next season. And last year at this time I was recovering from a hip fracture, and was off work, so I not only rewatched all episodes but had time to check out the GOT Complete History and Lore on YouTube, and i read the GOT 50 discussions, o by the time 6 rolled around I felt like I was an uber fan or something. Not sure I’ll do all that again, but definitely want to see 6 at least once before I go back to the beginning again.-

  224. Inga,

    Namely, Melisandre’s prophesy to Arya: brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes – eyes she will shut forever. Brown eyes – show!Jon, blue eyes – show!dany, green eyes – Cersey (both show and books)

    I did not pick up on that at all – will be interesting to see how it all plays out. And if there is an Arya connection, where is the Sansa one? How does she fit in all this?

  227. A Dornish Tyrell: Everyone’s a little bit…Targaryen.

    “Before I took the Castrati Anger Management Class, I scored a 10 on the Targaryen scale. Three weeks, and now I only score a 2!”

  228. ash: I did not pick up on that at all – will be interesting to see how it all plays out. And if there is an Arya connection, where is the Sansa one? How does she fit in all this?

    Given that Arya has killed several people since that time, she probably has covered the eye color spectrum. Trying to tie that in to particular people is waaaaaaay over-interpreting, I suspect!

  229. Stark Raven’ Rad: She’d be moved to be in front of Ned’s effigy.

    Does Ned have an effigy? There was no indication of one when Bran & Co. were down there, and if it was not there by then, it wouldn’t be there at all. I suppose Jon & Sansa could commission one: but they might be a bit preoccupied.

  230. Wimsey: “Before I took the Castrati Anger Management Class, I scored a 10 on the Targaryen scale. Three weeks, and now I only score a 2!”

    Kudos to you, sir! The system seems to be working… How are you performing in the Varys scale now?

  231. Great teaser
    Finally she dany in a westorosi castle wow it’s real!!!!!

    They should have used laid instead sit down lol

  232. r-hard:
    Last year the RED BAND trailer was released at March 8 and the season started at April 26, so this year should be late May for the first trailer with new footage.

    Agreed. Late May I believe as well. Djawadi is still doing the GoT tour, so they probably haven’t even started doing music yet.

  234. Wimsey,

    I’d personally go with the train of thought that Mel was speaking towards a prophesy of Arya as an FM “closing eyes.” That of course is considering the fact that the encounter and dialogue between Mel and Arya was a show creation and not from the books. It was an addition to aid in the taking of Gendry scene for the use of his king’s blood, which was also a change from the books. I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of Arya and Mel meeting again, but I don’t believe those words were related to Arya killing specific persons, especially Jon and Daenerys.

  235. Well it is pretty amazing how just the right song to set the tone and a few images of our favorite characters walking can bring such excitement and emotion to us all…

    Guys, this aint nothing yet, its just the teaser!!!

    Wait till we get a few seconds of dragons, armies and dire wolves! I think I will tear up like always… 7/16/2017 baby!!!

  236. That is one intense teaser.

    Though I am fairly sure Cersei has had a longer walk, before.

  237. Wimsey,

    You are probably correct that Tyrion is more likely than Cersei as the third dragon. D and D are merely hinting that Cersei is Aerys’s (mad queen) daughter by showing her paranoia and use of wildfire but they have had Tywin say, “I cannot prove that you are not my son” and “You are no son of mine.” I am torn because I would appreciate the irony if Tyrion is Tywin’s only true heir.

  240. Arthur:

    Wait till we get a few seconds of dragons, armies and dire wolves!I think I will tear up like always… 7/16/2017 baby!!!

    Well I would definitely cry if I caught sight of any direwolf….After I recover from the shock that is 😀

  241. Lonely Cat,

    Lol Tywin was told by a female relative in the books not sure if she was his sister, aunt, cousin etc but she said Tyrion is his only child that is a true Lannister, Tywin proceeded to never speak to her again after that.
    So I’ve never been quite sure if she meant Cersei and Jamie aren’t Tywin’s children or if she thinks Tyrion is the only one who acts like a true Lannister due to perhaps Tyrion’s intelligence or Cersei and Jamie being together even when they were young.

  242. Mel,

    That was his sister, one of the many, many characters excised from the series. I re-read that dialogue (it’s at the very end of a chapter, I forget in which book) many times!

  243. Nice all three Kit ,Emilia and Lena looks awesome and wonderful..

    Its nice to see Emilia in that costume ..those pictures that was taken during filming didn’t do justice ..
    We can actually see somethjng like dragonscales in that costume ..

    Iam very confident that Dragonstone will be more brighter and different from what we have seen when team stannis was there …

    Sean C.,

    I don’t think we will be getting anything with her back story..
    I hope before every season starts they will have scenes that will show her more human and sympathetic and end up disappointed ..so I have actually given up hoping for some scenes like that ..

  245. Mel,

    I think she meant Tyrion was the only one who was a true Lannister, or rather the only one who had Tywin’s intelligence. It was Tywin’s sister Genna who said that.

  246. Inga:
    It’s interesting they haven’t shown Jon sitting – even on that modest chair at the table. It looks like the message was: two overentilted brats and one true man to deal with both of them.

    Lol He is actually sitting in those last shots before he closes the eyes…
    As usual some fans need to show how superior he is to other characters and bash them down when there is no need at all..

    Inga,

    While she is at it please ask her to kill her brother and sister and in the end kill herself ..So that all the starks will be gone and finally a balance will be there ..

  248. Wimsey,

    Useless ?? I disagree if they do that most of perceptions against the character changes …these things were there to show her character and how much she had been struggled growing up alone with abusive brother and not having a mother or father ..it will for once be a change and make her look more real and human

  249. Lonely Cat,

    One doesn’t need to be daughter of a mad king to become mad Queen
    One don’t need to be a Targaryen to be a mad king and obsessed with wildfire ..

  250. Maginor,

    It’s not driftwood. It’s rock. A flysch formation based on Zumaia’s flyschs, where they filmed the beach sequences for Dragonstone.

    Firannion: Too late for that. The TV show already changed the name of the Iron Islands’ Seastone Chair to the Driftwood Throne.

    No, they didn’t. In the show the Seastone Chair is the Salt Throne.

  251. I would like to see a scene where Dany gets emotional about finally being home, the place she was born in. I could see it playing out like: Dany is alone in a room looking out of a window. Tyrion walks in, she turns and there is a tear running down her cheek. Tyrion asks whats wrong. Dany looks out of the window into the distance and explains that it’s still difficult for her to truly fathom that she is actually home. That she has been waiting for this her entire life. And finally, here she is.

  253. Mel: Dragonstone

    Yeah the show has never made the connection of Dany and Braavos. However Braavos has been introduced , pretty well, on the show and the Iron Bank is back in season 7… does the Iron Bank and maybe too the FM make contact with Danny in season 7? In fact just what audiences does Dany have in that ‘throne’ room on Dragonstone?

  254. Masspsychosis,

    That would be a beautiful scene, I could see that happening.

    I could also see Dany getting emotional about being in the room in Dragonstone which her mother gave birth to her and died in. Knowing how much she’s craved a mother’s touch and how her brother blamed her for her death. It would be a good bonding moment with Missandei as neither of them had mothers and both grew up in a man’s cruel world though they could also invite Tyrion, Jon and Greyworm and all have a little growing up without mothers club.

  255. Jenny,

    Ah, the hype hath returned! Going through some stressful stuff and so needed this right now. Our King does not look happy. Also I notice he’s the only one not to sit on a throne. I’m worried for our man. Hoping he doesn’t “turn.” Also I’m glad the fierce Cercei is still alive.

  257. dragonbringer,
    Ten Bears,

    Regarding Arya becoming an Angel of Death. In the Children (Ep10S4) we saw her pulling off the faces from no-one who presented himself as Jaquen and finally seeing herself dead. Whatever that means, I don’t believe that anyone could acquire the skills of the FM and then simply leave to live happily ever after using those skills for personal purposes, when required. That would be extremely silly and against the very spirit of the Game of Thrones. So, I assume that Arya will have to pay her due to the FM and the God of Death one way or another. But that doesn’t mean that I deny her a possibility to live before that happens: as for me, she can marry Gendy and have a bunch of kids or sail west of Westeros. Angels of Death have personal lives, too.

    Regarding Arya killing Jon (and others). You may be right that Mel’s prophesy from S3 was simply a hint that she would join the FM, rather than her family. But on the other hand, Jon may have – in fact, he already has – the problem of dying, if the red priest will keep bringing him back again and again. And Dany may get the same problem, as she is surrounded by the symbols of the Red God all around – even the tiles of the Dragonstone throne-room are hexagonal. So, Arya’s skills in giving the Gift of Death may become handy, though I hope that Jon won’t ask his little cousin for that gift before he is eighty (ninety would be even better).

    As for Cersei – yes, the prophesy implies that her assassin will be male and have two hands. But Arya (or the FM in general) can change identities including gender. We saw how Waif turned into Jaquen and Jaquen turned into (dead) Arya in the Children. So, everything is possible, though I would rather see Cersei being killed by Tyrion.

  258. Luka Nieto,

    Hi, Luka!

    I wanted to ask your oppinion about that passage Dany is walking through. At first, I though it was a stone, but the color looks almost white and Dragonstone walls are supposed to be black (at least that’s what we saw in the show so far). So, I thought about ice (especially taking into account the HBO reference about the path being paved with ice), but then again I remembered that Zumaia’s flyschs formations were of different colors. So, what is your oppinion? Is it stone or can it be ice?

  259. Inga,

    Leak reference:

    It sure does suggest a different plot than leaks have described, heh? Makes it seem like the three will be antagonistic toward each other with Jon in particular upset at the ladies lol

  261. Mel,

    I can also see Dany and Jon discussing their mother issues.

    Dany: So, you are Ned Stark’s son… Who was your mother?
    Jon: I don’ts know. I’ve never met her.
    Dany: I’ve never met mine. She died giving birth to me.
    Jon: You are still luckier than me, your grace: you can visit her tomb/grave and light a candle…

    Sorry, couldn’t help.

  262. Mel: Knowing how much she’s craved a mother’s touch and how her brother blamed her for her death.

    Was this depicted in the show?

    Mel: invite Tyrion, Jon and Greyworm and all have a little growing up without mothers club.

    haha yes!

  264. As we see at the end all 3 close their eyes with candles snuffed out but then only Cercei opens hers back up with icy breath at final shot. Trying to figure out what that foreshadows lol.

  266. Inga,

    What???? I never said that “Mel’s prophecy from S3 was simply a hint that she would join the FM, rather than her family.”

    Also, “The Children”, the episode you’d told me I didn’t pay attention to, was S4E10 when Arya refuses Sandor’s “kill me!” pleas, and closes out the episode – and the season – on the ship sailing off to Braavos.
    Arya’s multiple face-changing hallucination was in S5e10, “Mother’s Mercy”, preceding her blinding as punishment for her unsanctioned hit on Meryn F-cking Trant.
    Even so, that scene doesn’t presage Arya abandoning her moral code and becoming an indiscriminate serial killer. If anything, her arc in Braavos was about her inability to discard her sense of empathy and justice, and her refusal to become a heartless assassin who could give “the gift” to good people.

    And Arya is not going to put on a man’s face to kill Cersei. The face-peeling “gun” has already been fired – twice.* Doing it again would turn it into a silly stunt.

    * (Wimsey… If you’re out there, what do you think?)

  267. dragonbringer: these things were there to show her character and how much she had been struggled growing up alone with abusive brother and not having a mother or father ..it will for once be a change and make her look more real and human

    But that has been pretty well established in S1, during all her interactions with his brother, who was anything but kind to her…
    I must confess I don’t understand why you say that she doesn’t look “real” or “human”.

    Conversely, I do wish there is a Dany-Varys bonding scene where the Spider tells her how he organized Dany’s escape from Dragonstone or something like that… Tyrion has already told Dany that Varys was probably the reason she wasn’t slaughter in her crib (S5E8), but I still would like to see some direct interaction between her and Varys.

  268. Ellie,

    Dany’s level of beauty is too damn high. When I saw her in red and black I actually teared up. The Silver Queen is home !

    Masspsychosis,

    We haven’t seen Dany have a good cry since forever. She teared up when locking her dragons up and also when she sent Jorah to heal himself but I feel like the biggest cry we’ve had is when she kills Drogo. “I don’t want to be his queen. I WANT TO GO HOME.” That line is so vivid in my head every time I think of her. I believe being at Dragonstone would make her emotional if she had any memory of it but she only knows what Viserys told her. She’s pretty much a stranger in her own home,
    I can’t wait to see how the location impacts her going forward.

  269. Lonely Cat,

    One of my book theories was that I always thought that Tyrion was the only true Lannister of the three siblings. There was so much evidence for it! Less so in the show so I am not really sure if that would ever pan out.

  270. ygritte,

    Quite on the contrary – I think that the leaked plot has been reflected rather well. From what we know, Dany will be really trying to persuade Jon to “sit down” next to her and Jon will be trying to persuade Cersei to “sit down” next to them. And in the end all this dream of all the people sitting down “in sympathy” and “living as one” will be swept away by Cersei’s cold breath, when she will reveal to Jaime her true intent to get Jon and Dany destroyed by the WW. At least, that’s how I read it. But sure, Jon will be quite upset with two spoiled throne-sitting brats at least before Dany redeams herself by saving him during the wight hunt.

  271. Mel,
    Gina,

    It was Genna, Tywin’s sister, who said that… And she also told Jamie: “sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna’s breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there’s some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak… but Tyrion is Tywin’s son, not you.”
    But I don’t think she was ever talking about genetics. I interpreted that as she saying that only Tyrion had the same cunning and statecraftmanship as Tywin had (qualities that both Jamie and Cersei lack.)

  272. Mel: Boojam

    Yeah except for the big Table Room at Dragonstone all the other rooms and cells were generic , interesting to see what beyond that ‘throne room’ they have developed. In fact hope in post production the Dragonstone throne room does not look so spartan!

  273. This trailer was dumb. The music was completely off. There is no new real content. The shots were probably taken just for the trailer. No one speaks.
    *Is she at Dragonstone? who knows, but it wasn’t enough to excite me.

    I really don’t want to be negative, but this just doesn’t do it for me.

    The show has done a bad job with trailers and promos so far this year.

  274. ygritte,

    Don’t worry about it. He’ll be fine. I’m like 100% certain this will be his most exiting season yet. And he never looks happy so that’s just par for the course lol.This promo gave him the opportunity for intense brooding and that’s like his most defining feature haha.I think people over analyze the promo a lot.It just establishes the three of them as the main players this season which is completely logical considering how the season concluded and winter and the WW as the overarching danger.Just that and cool visuals and that Dany lands on Dragonstone.

  275. Haha, so much excitement here. It’s fun to read.

    1. The song choice warms on you if you get the words, read about its history, etc. even if it is really not your style. Give it some attention and it turns out to be clever.

    2. Jon in the crypts! Doesn’t sit down….

    3. So looking forward to seeing how Cersei plays her cards now. She’s cracked. Interesting the song suggests she’s mad, not sad.

    4. Dany seems pretty triumphant. I wonder how long that lasts?

  276. A Dornish Tyrell,

    What I mean is we don’t have scenes of dany showing her real emotions and sharing her feelings like she does in books ..
    For the past three seasons we have only seen two scenes chaining of dragons and asking jorah to find the cure ..

    It would be nice to see dany speak about her mother and her feelings when she lands on dragonstone or anything similar to that which will make dany look like season 1 dany and not this regal robotic queen she had been written as from the past seasons..

    And they had plenty of opportunities to do that but they left out….we didn’t even have dany thinking about jorah and missing him but we have to see how jorah loves her …when he leaves meereen we have to see from his POV and when he leaves dothraki sea we have to sew through his PoV again..

    Regarding varys and dany I don’t
    Think we will see a scene like that one mainly because its not a book plot and Iam hoping she will kill varys when she comes to westeros in the books

  277. This could be actual footage – is it possible the Jon scene is actually him walking in the Winterfell crypt?

    I think it’s edited to show him standing in the hall 1st – switch it around.

    Him in the hall thinking about going into the crypt 1st – then him actually walking in the crypt 2nd.

  278. Jenny,

    Are you saying that trailer just shows
    Three rulers taking the long walk to their respective throne room and sits down and closes eyes ..

    Iam shocked you don’t see how it shows how modest and simple jon and north from others and other regions ..

    Luka Nieto,

    That was the cave on the beach right ..from what I remember they shot there for only one day ..so willthat mean there will be only few scenes on dany’s throne room or they made a set of that in studio

  279. A Dornish Tyrell: Kudos to you, sir! The system seems to be working… How are you performing in the Varys scale now?

    I’m doing so well that the cats are all herded, for the good of the household.

  280. Jason: The show has done a bad job with trailers and promos so far this year.

    The show does not need promotions anymore. The only thing that will bring in new viewers is binge-watching the series. Viewers who liked what the show was doing last year will watch it this year.

    All they need to do is remind people when the show returns.

  281. VegoDread,

    There is no need at all to assume walking in the crypts and entering the hall at Winterfell are related scenes. If they are footage at all, they were edited together to fit the teaser, not the other way around.

  282. A Dornish Tyrell: But I don’t think she was ever talking about genetics. I interpreted that as she saying that only Tyrion had the same cunning and statecraftmanship as Tywin had (qualities that both Jamie and Cersei lack.)

    That was the crux of Jaime’s contribution to the story: the boy is setting out to prove that he is Tywin: The Sequel!, and the man turns out to be someone with a sense of empathy.

    And you are entirely correct: it is just a turn of phrase. “You are your father’s son” or “You are your mother’s son” means: “You are a lot like your father/mother,” not “Your parents are not who you think they are.” And “You are not my son” is not Tywin saying that he did not father Jaime or Tyrion, but Tywin disowning them.

  283. Good stuff by HBO…better than the Ice Block that’s for sure

    Kinda misses Euron, but I can understand the main focus is on the central actors/characters present since season 1

    One thing that has got me though, is that usually only the KL Protagonist is actually wearing a Crown, there is often many claimants and with the exception of Renly during his little Tourney when Brienne is introduced none of them really aim to “look the part” via wearing Crowns – especially Robb

  284. Dany’s Throne looks great (almost a shame we never saw Stannis in it…), a little quibble of mine though is that the Winterfell “hot seat” is simply a chair

    Jon Snows position needs to be raised. The Winterfell set in S1 and S2 when Robb is addressing Tyrion and later Bran and Rickon are with Maestar Luewin giving ill-fated Orphan boys to the Farmer was raised and makes sense as a seat of power – kinda like the NW

    For mine I wasn’t sure if the Giant eye in the end was a pisstake about the story from S1 which Oberyn later mentions as well about everyone “living in the eye of the Giant”

  285. dragonbringer:
    A Dornish Tyrell,

    What I mean is we don’t have scenes of dany showing her real emotions and sharing her feelings like she does in books ..
    For the past three seasons we have only seen two scenes chaining of dragons and asking jorah to find the cure ..

    It would be nice to see dany speak about her mother and her feelings when she lands on dragonstone or anything similar to that which will make dany look like season 1 dany and not this regal robotic queen she had been written as from the past seasons..

    And they had plenty of opportunities to do that but they left out….we didn’t even have dany thinking about jorah and missing him but we have to see how jorah loves her …when he leaves meereen we have to see from his POV and when he leaves dothraki sea we have to sew through his PoV again..

    I wish the show would have included this scene (or something similar) between Daenerys and Missandei; it always manages to bring a tear to my eye.

    “As he loved you.” Dany stroked the girl’s hair. “Say the word, my sweet, and I will send you from this awful place. I will find a ship somehow and send you home. To Naath.”
    “I would sooner stay with you. On Naath I’d be afraid. What if the slavers came again? I feel safe when I’m with you.”
    Safe. The word made Dany’s eyes fill up with tears. “I want to keep you safe.” Missandei was only a child. With her, she felt as if she could be a child too. “No one ever kept me safe when I was little. Well, Ser Willem did, but then he died, and Viserys … I want to protect you but … it is so hard. To be strong. I don’t always know what I should do. I must know, though. I am all they have. I am the queen … the … the …”
    “… mother,” whispered Missandei.
    “Mother to dragons.” Dany shivered.
    “No. Mother to us all.” Missandei hugged her tighter. “Your Grace should sleep. Dawn will be here soon, and court.”

  286. Ten Bears: * (Wimsey… If you’re out there, what do you think?)

    I agree with you. One thing that we need to remember is that this is a story, not a history. History is very arbitrary: the person who shoots down the Red Baron does not need to have a personal history with the Red Baron. Stories are not. Now, Arya does have a minor history with Cersei: but there are many characters with much more intricate histories with Cersei. Moreover, this is the type of story where the crux is someone doing something that he/she simultaneously feels to be “right” and “wrong.” For Arya, killing Cersei would hold no problems: the bitch needs to die. For Jaime (and, to a lesser extent, Tyrion), it would be fraught with conflict. Jaime will never stop loving Cersei, but he might be starting to hate her, too. At this point, I would not be surprised if Jaime’s killing of the Mad-King is a foreshadowing of the same sort as the play shown at the outset of Romeo & Juliet!

    The other thing to keep in mind is that Cersei has been doing this to prevent a prophecy from being fulfilled. Another Shakespeare work comes to mind: MacBeth. Cersei probably has made it easier for Daeny (who Cersei never has connected to the prophecy) to unseat her. At some point, Cersei will realize this. My bet is that her death comes from Jaime in the aftermath of that and as Jaime basically does Monarch Slayer II: Love Stinks.

  287. Ghost Lunch: One thing that has got me though, is that usually only the KL Protagonist is actually wearing a Crown

    ?? Cersei is the first protagonist of the series to actually wear the crown of the Iron Throne. The other three have been supporting characters of one type or another. Or am I misunderstanding what you mean?

  288. Jay Targ,

    Yes and i would have loved to see the scenes before missandei shows up for this conversation where dany hopes that jorah finds his home and searches for a house with red door and asking gods why they must take everyone from her ..

    Couple of scenes like

    . “I was alone for a long time, Jorah. All alone but for my brother. I was such a small scared thing. Viserys should have protected me, but instead he hurt me and scared me worse. He shouldn’t have done that. He wasn’t just my brother, he was my king. Why do the gods make kings and queens, if not to protect the ones who can’t protect themselves?

    Or where she mentions how viserys sold her mothers crown to keep them fed and how she was blamed for her mothers death by viserys ..
    Or where she says queen must listen to all and make everyone of her council voice their opinion..
    Or where she frequently says how a queen should be for her people and not for herself and must put her people first..

  290. awol,

    I have no idea what you’re talking about?

    I mentioned the hall footage because the editing is implying 2 queens & 1 king walking towards their respective seat of power.

    Jon is not walking towards anything – if anything, he is walking away – down to the crypt. This was forshadowed last season in episode 10.

  291. Oh that music was terrible.

    Clearly they are suggesting that Cercei will unite with the WW and that makes sense – she will need to send an envoy….

  292. Ten Bears,

    Fat sorry for lapsus calami: of course, I had in mind “Mother’s Mersy”.

    I do agree that Arya’s arch in Braavos was about her inability to abandon her moral code and becoming an indiscriminate serial killer and I don’t think that Arya will ever become an indiscriminate serial killer. But on the other hand, death is death and it is necessary to balance life per se: valar morghulis – all men must die including the Nigh King who is basically just a man cursed with ethernal life. So, my main guess is that it will be Arya who will promote his demise, but that may and should come for a price of Arya’s own life and/or lives of the ones she loves. Only death can pay for life and only life can pay for death and one can say for sure that the death of the Ning Kings will claim many lives. It’s just a question of how the price is going to be paid. A straightforwards death of the main characters during the ultimate Battle for Dawn would be the most obvious option, but it’s also possible that GRRM and D&D will come up with a more sophisticated payment scheme. So, I am just specullating on what this scheme could be. Sorry, if these specullations are annoying.

  293. I keep getting the feeling Cersie has had something to do with the white walkers all along. That icy breath reinforced it.

  294. It’s unbelievable, but in the Berlin subway TV today (which is some visual entertainment of short news, headlines and ads while you are on the train) they had the headline “Der neue Game of Thrones Trailer ist da” (The new GoT trailer is out).
    Besides of the overstatement cause it’s just a teaser it’s so amazing what has become of this show, I can’t imagine something more mainstream than being a headline in this format.

  298. Vegodread:
    awol,

    I have no idea what you’re talking about?

    I mentioned the hall footage because the editing is implying 2 queens & 1 king walking towards their respective seatof power.

    Jon is not walking towards anything – if anything, he is walking away – down to the crypt. This was forshadowed last season in episode 10.

    Jon enters (not exits) the hall at Winterfell. As for his walking, it is just a corridor really, though I do believe it seems like the crypts. But there is no clear direction to it. We don’t see him enter or leave as you say. There is just editing.

    The shot entering the hall at Winterfell, where Jon enters but we don’t see him sit, was almost definitely made just for the teaser. But him walking in the corridor, be it the crypts or just a corridor, might be season 7 footage.

  299. Wimsey: Why do these things need to be explained?Unless they have some bearing on this season’s story or the remaining plot, it’s just useless detail.At best, it accomplishes nothing and at worst these sorts of trivial items detract from the story and/or the plot.

    Wimsey,

    I don’t know how necessary it is either, but perhaps this would give Varys a chance to explain to Daenerys how he played a critical role in getting her and Viserys to safety after her birth. We really haven’t seen Varys and Daenerys say a word to each other yet and maybe this is the perfect reason for them to talk.

  300. Mr Derp: We really haven’t seen Varys and Daenerys say a word to each other yet and maybe this is the perfect reason for them to talk.

    Just having them talk for the sake of having them talk would be bad storytelling. If they are going to talk, then it needs to be about something relevant to the current story and/or plot(s).

  301. A Dornish Tyrell,

    That’s what I have been saying ..anyone can notice the difference between two mediums after reading the book conversation and then seeing show version..
    This has been the case almost for three seasons now

  302. awol,

    I don’t think that was actual S7 footage, even the shots of his walk seems to be made for the teaser. However it could be a hint that Jon will make a visit to the crypts in the next season.

    S7 spoilers

    I can definitely see Jon going to the crypts before leaving Winterfell to meet Dany. He is going to meet and try to make a deal with a Targaryen. That could make him think back to what happened the last time a Stark got involved with a Targaryen, which could prompt a visit to Ned and Lyanna’s tomb.

    Atleast, it’s my wishful thinking lol

  303. Wimsey,

    Dany needs a reason to actually trust Varys, after knowing that he tried to have her killed. Such a conversation, with Varys telling her how he had saved her and Viserys might help in that regard.

  307. Wimsey: Just having them talk for the sake of having them talk would be bad storytelling.If they are going to talk, then it needs to be about something relevant to the current story and/or plot(s).

    Wimsey,

    It’s not talking just for the sake of talking. At the very least, it would show a bond between the two and would reinforce that they are on the same side. I would consider it character building. It’s never too late for that even though we are so late in the game. And yes, Dany needs a personal reason to trust Varys…this would go a long way in doing that.

    Besides, we have seen MANY times before that people have talked for the sake of talking. Remember the Orson Lannister story? How is that any more relevant to the story than Varys speaking to Dany about how he helped her get to safety?

  308. I love the song and the visuals. Favorite bits:

    All three close their eyes, fires go out. Cersei is then the only one to open her eyes. She exhales. You can see her breath, how cold it is, how cold she is, after losing everything but the throne. Then cut to the blue eye, opening, like Cersei’s eyes. To me it hints that Cersei has lost much of her humanity, and might consciously or unconsciously help the Walkers by turning against Jon and Dany, but idk.

    Jon’s the only leader not given a throne, the only one who doesn’t sit. He’s also the only one in a council-room, with many chairs, and no place where the leader can be raised above others. That says something about his position, which was gained by acclamation rather than by birth or conquest. It also says a lot about his leadership style, which is, I think, going to be less authoritarian than Dany or Cersei.

  309. dragonbringer,

    I see your point but not necessarily agree with it… It’s true that Daenerys has been shown to be more hardened in the show comparing to the books, but she’s far from being robotic, imho. I believe there were many instances where she showed vulnerability, hesitation, doubt, etc…

  311. Speaking of rewatches of GoT, I watched ‘Ghosts of Harrenhal’ season 2 episode 5 last night and I noticed that the Quiathe refers to herself as “no one”. I wonder if she’s a faceless man or if I’m just making a connection that isn’t there. She’s still a very mysterious character and I would personally find it odd that her part in the story is done. But then again, who knows.

  312. ghost of winterfell,

    But it wouldnot be a book canon..
    Its one thing to have varys support dany now since he is just one man and can be replaced ..but saying that will change entire story when he never really cared about dany or viserys and had them as sacrificial lambs for his perfect prince ..

    Iam very sure the show will not touch upon the issues like attempts on dany’s life and move on and have them both converse as if they have been bf’s since season 1

    My only wish is they don’t have varys change is support to Jon from dany as if they had made a mistake in backing dany …that will make me very sad

  314. dragonbringer: But it wouldnot be a book canon..

    The show is the show, the books are the books… A tautological statement, I know, but that subplot (or story? I always get them wrong… Wimsey, help!!) has been cut out of the show. Show!Varys has actually helped Dany staying alive (as per the dialogue between Tyrion and Dany in S5E8.)

  315. A Dornish Tyrell,

    I agree show is the show but even then you can’t change somethings..
    Like I said the tyrells and dorne could have allied with dany themselves and varys could have been replaced..
    Imagine LF saying to jon how he tried to save ned and did all his best to protect sansa and arya..thats how i feel about varys speaking with dany

  316. Wait,were there actually people who thought we are going to get a full fledged trailer 4 months before premiere,like really ?

  317. ghost of winterfell,

    S7 spoilers

    I can see a scene like that playing out between him and Sansa.Her telling him she doesn’t like this,look what happened the last time etc and Jon being like this is a new age,a new dawn I need to do this.I hope it happens.

  318. Jason,

    It’s barely April,snowflake,the show premieres in July in case you didn’t know,they still have time for lots of other trailers,this wasn’t even called a trailer,it’s just a promo .

  319. Ghost Lunch,

    That’s the Night King’s eye,not a giant,i don’t know why people think it’s a giant since it doesn’t fit with the promo’s focus on the kings and queens of the story .

  320. Mr Derp,

    Remember the Orson Lannister story? How is that any more relevant to the story than Varys speaking to Dany about how he helped her get to safety?

    I agree it would be helpful for Varys to have that conversation, not just for Dany, but to give some exposition to viewers who might not recall that information. And it is as releant as the Orson story – give the theme and the mood,there couldn’t have been a better passage (Tho I’ll be the first to admit it was a little long). Just sayin

  322. maria,

    Cersei is then the only one to open her eyes. She exhales. You can see her breath, how cold it is, how cold she is, after losing everything but the throne. Then cut to the blue eye, opening, like Cersei’s eyes. To me it hints that Cersei has lost much of her humanity, and might consciously or unconsciously help the Walkers by turning against Jon and Dany, but idk.

    Or she becomes one. Thats how far shes gone,she’s no longer human.

  323. Mr Derp,

    I noticed that last year on my rewatch and wondered the same thing. It never comes up again, but wonder if she will appear again somewhere, or as someone

  324. dragonbringer,

    Varys on the show is not anywhere as shady as LF though. Look at all the shit LF has done. That’s not really a fair comparison. On the show, there has not really been anything to show that Varys is not exactly as he says, someone who cares about the welfare of the realm. Like A Dornish Tyrell said, the show is the show and you need to separate the two.

  325. ash,

    I agree. There are a number of scenes throughout the course of the show that one could argue were not specifically necessary to the plot, but were excellent and made me more invested in the characters.

    For example, some of the scenes with Arya and Tywin back in season 2 were among the very best in the entire show (in my opinion), but most of them really weren’t necessary to the plot. The only thing that came out of it was that Arya was caught stealing a message about Robb Stark, and that led her to asking Jaqen to kill the guards, but that was after numerous preceding conversations between the two that weren’t plot driven. Those conversations could have been cut and the show wouldn’t have missed a beat, but we would have missed out on some good conversation. Was it bad storytelling to include those scenes? I sure don’t think so 🙂

    Sometimes scenes with emotional gravity are just as important as scenes that are plot-driven.

  326. Mr Derp,

    Hey Mr. D. It might just be your screen name that’s causing comments to disappear into the ether. I just finished a long reply about how much I enjoy scenes in which characters are just talking, and how important the dialog is – but when I pushed “Post Comment” it vanished into Alphabet Heaven.
    I started the comment with a greeting to you by name…

  327. Ten Bears,

    Crap…this is starting to become a trend. Perhaps it’s time for me to drop my ancestral Derp heritage and become no one afterall 🙂

  328. dragonbringer: That was the cave on the beach right ..from what I remember they shot there for only one day ..so willthat mean there will be only few scenes on dany’s throne room or they made a set of that in studio

    They filmed for a week in Zumaia’s beach. And yes, this is obviously a set in Belfast. Probably where the Meereen throne room once stood.

    Inga,

    I think it’s stone and its apparent whiteness is a trick of the light.

  329. Mr Derp,

    Well, each tine it happened I referred back to Orson and his beetles-crushing, and included a “stage direction” such as * (*Mr. D– groans*).

  330. What a lovely treat to come to after having been offline for a while!

    Loved the music, the visuals, the “story”.

    Loved the sneak-peek at the wardrobes of Jon, Dany and Cersei – BTW, Inga, there do seem to be some spikey things on Cersei’s collar, I love your idea of an anti-valonqar collar, though the show left out that part of Maggy the Frog’s prophecy. But let’s assume it makes it to the show (Cersei telling Qyburn about it or something). One of the prime candidates for valonqar in the books is Jaime… who has a golden hand that wouldn’t feel the spikes! 😀

  331. Ten Bears,

    Aw, come on now! I kinda liked that scene, it just went on too long for me 🙂

    Btw, I’ll take any suggestions on a new name since my current one is about to go the way of House Reyne of Castamere.

  332. ghost of winterfell,
    awol,
    Vegodread,

    I think that there is a possibility that the teaser contains some actual footage. For instance Dany at 0:54 is supposed to be on the throne, but she is not. She must be outdoors (or standing against some big window), because the light comes from behind. Inconsistency in her cape position also implies that the shot has been reversed like in S6 trailer. And S6 Hall of Faces teaser used the actual footage from Ep5 or Ep6 (can’t remember exactly, but it’s where Jaquen brings Arya to the Hall of Faces to tell her the history of the FM).

    Hence, it would be worth to compare the corridor with the Crypts, if someone has the images. I don’t see much similarity but maybe I missed something.

  333. A Dornish Tyrell,

    Yeah, I figured Dany had or will have a heart to heart talk with Varys confirming Tyrion’s supposition that she would’ve been murdered in her crib but for Varys working behind the scenes as a “double agent.”
    Otherwise, it’d make no sense for her to turn her back on him – literally – in the final scene of S6 in which he’s standing right behind her on the deck of the flagship of the Targaryan fleet, while she’s looking straight ahead.

  334. Mr Derp:
    ash,

    Was it bad storytelling to include those scenes?I sure don’t think so ?

    Sometimes scenes with emotional gravity are just as important as scenes that are plot-driven.

    I absolutely agree. One of the greatest joys of fiction is that it does not need to adhere to a narrow structural or aesthetic formula. It allows room for the free play of the author’s imagination. To insist that including any scene that does not directly serve the protagonists’ central conflict resolution is ‘bad storytelling’ is to misunderstand how fiction works, in my view. One does not judge the efficacy of fictional storytelling the same way that one evaluates advertising copy or a grant proposal or a technical report or even a news story. More can often be more.

    To this reader/viewer at least (and I know I’m not alone), throwing Varys and Dany together for a conversation just to observe how those two personalities interact would be a most welcome addition – whether it’s necessary to the climax of the story or not! Let’s not sacrifice the pleasure principle of literature/TV/film to some rigid academic theory.

  335. Mr Derp,

    Actually, my “WW-RoboCop-Orson” theory (contained in one of my previously vaporized comments) had less to do with Orson than it did with Tyrion’s certainty that Orson had a reason for what he was doing, but trying to discern it was like trying to read a book written in a language he didn’t understand.
    I know Tyrion’s lament for the millions of crushed beetles was probably a commentary on mankind’s propensity for senseless slaughter, but the part about watching Orson’s face as if trying to read a book written in a language he didn’t understand, could also describe the WW’s arrangement of corpses into weird designs: there’s some message behind it, but it’s in a “language” we don’t (yet) understand. (The spiral arrangement seems to mirror the rock formation around the tree in the COTF-WW creation scene, but there’s probably more to it…)

  336. Ghost Lunch:

    Jon Snows position needs to be raised. The Winterfell set in S1 and S2 when Robb is addressing Tyrion and later Bran and Rickon are with Maestar Luewin giving ill-fated Orphan boys to the Farmer was raised and makes sense as a seat of power – kinda like the NW

    maria:

    Jon’s the only leader not given a throne, the only one who doesn’t sit. He’s also the only one in a council-room, with many chairs, and no place where the leader can be raised above others. That says something about his position, which was gained by acclamation rather than by birth or conquest. It also says a lot about his leadership style, which is, I think, going to be less authoritarian than Dany or Cersei.

    I know several posters have debated whether or not Jon is sitting or standing. We can’t tell. He doesn’t mount a throne like the ladies, so perhaps filming his sitting just looked visually awkward so they skipped it. I think we’re supposed to assume he’s seated (see the song lyrics), but we can’t know from the visuals.

    Regardless, I wanted to bring your two comments together because maria touched on what my thoughts were when reading Ghost Lunch’s. Many people like to link Jon with King Arthur. His Winterfell arrangement does certainly feel more collaborative, much like the Round Table. By contrast, a raised seat might communicate authority to his new vassals and be appropriate to his new position, but it didn’t help Jon with his Night’s Watch brothers. I think this arrangement suits Jon and how he views himself.

  337. Ten Bears,

    Apparently the Orson scene is one of Peter Dinklage’s favorites as he stated to Entertainment Weekly:

    I loved the lines about their cousin, who’s a bit thick and smashing the beetles. Because it was about something from their past. It’s like Tyrion’s in shock, or something. He doesn’t know why he’s telling that story and he just wants to know what it was about, and what life is about, and it had such an abstract non-f*****g King’s Landing feel to it.

  338. talvikorppi,

    Long time no see, talvikorppi, welcome!!

    Ten Bears,

    You are right. They surely have had a tête-à-tête offscreen… but an intimate conversation between the two of them in the ancestral Targaryen stronghold would be nice.
    Alas, I’m afraid it will be Tyrion the only one with the intimate meaningful conversations.

  339. Firannion,

    I was going to cite as an example Jaime’s bathtub scene with Brienne: lots of talking, no action, but chock full of revelations, character development, exposition of historical events, and embedded foreshadowing (eg hidden wildfire caches).
    Like the Sandor-Arya scene in which he recounted how his brother burned his face, and the implicit revelation of the emotional trauma it caused because it was his own brother who did it and his father covered for Gregor with a false “bedding caught fire” story, some scenes with characters “just talking” are the most engrossing – and revealing.

  340. Some above have commented on how the candles blowing out reminds them of the final Arya/Waif scene. But in that scene the candle wasn’t blown out by wind, it was extinguished after Arya sliced the candle with Needle and the light went out when the top toppled to the floor. Nothing magical about it.

    Now, the scene that candles blowing out reminds me of is the Renly death scene in S2. Remember, a wind enters the tent, blows out candles and the shadow demon kills Renly.

    I don’t think candles blowing out in this teaser are a reference to Melisandre’s shadowbaby demons but a more generic reference to a (magical) threat to all humankind, i.e. the White Walkers, capable of snuffing out all humankind.

    As to Dany, Jon and Cersei closing their eyes… It’s a symbol for death, or course, but I also see it as a very human moment. A moment of concentration/decision before facing and tackling a daunting task. Think about going to a job interview, diving off the highest platform, your driving test… Something scary that you have to do and give your absolute best at but that can give you something you desire if you conquer your fear or doubt and just go for it. Just think of athletes moments before their performance. So often you see them close their eyes for a second of two (visualising what lies ahead?) and go for it.

    Aaargh, I guess I’m not explaining it well but, for me, that closing of eyes by Jon, Dany and Cersei also spoke of taking a decision and determination.

  341. talvikorppi,

    Indeed, there is a number of ways how the showrunners could reveal the second half of the Maggy the Frog’s prophesy now, when Tyrion is comming back and Cersei has a good reason to think that her little brother would be willing to choak her for all she has done to him. After all, Tyrion has killed their father and choaked Shae which implies that he would be capable of choaking his sister too.
    The only problem the showrunners may encounter is that show!Tyrion wouldn’t be able to choak anyone with his hands (they are too small), and if they change the wording of the prophesy, the change may reveal too much (at least for the nerds).
    But anyway Cersei’s colar indeed looks anti-valonquar with these spikes and I don’t think that the costume designers simply decided to give her an image of a bad mad doberman bitch. The spikes must be there for a reason.

  342. I’ve only watched the video on a large computer screen so I don’t see how the thought of Jon being in the crypts even came about. Perhaps on smaller devices it’s difficult to see. I think it’s very clear that he’s walking in a corridor that leads to the great hall, much like the women are walking in hallways to their throne rooms. It has a tiled floor, a window, high ceiling and candles in wall braziers. The crypts are darker with a low sloped ceiling, dirty stone floor and candles just sitting open on shelves.

  343. Clob,

    I think you’re right. I watched it first on a phone screen, and my first thought was “Ooh, is he going to the crypts?” It felt darker and more confined on the small screen, but Jon going to the crypts is also wishful thinking on my part.

  344. Clob,

    I agree. I think some people are looking WAAAAY too much into this, but I suppose that’s part of the fun until the season premiere arrives. Personally though, I find endless speculation on teaser trailers to be a bit tiresome.

    To me, it simply looks like Cersei, Dany, and Jon are all mirroring each other’s movements in their respective homes and it really isn’t much more than that. Jon simply doesn’t have a high throne because thats not what he is interested in. On the other hand, Dany and Cersei want the throne, so of course they will both be sitting as such.

  345. Chreechree,

    I think this is it.It probably looked visually awkward so they skipped it but I don’t think we were supposed to notice he was not seated otherwise they would have shown a wider shot and as you said the lyrics of the song support the sitting down.I don’t think it’s supposed to be a thing.

  346. Mr Derp,

    Nah. Don’t change your screen name. People reading comments under older posts won’t know you authored all of those witty comments. I’ll just refrain from using “Ni!” – I mean “D_p” – in the text of future comments.

  347. ghost of winterfell,

    The time for her to get an explanation for why to accept him must have come and gone already. After all, coming back with the forces of Dorne & Highgarden is pretty much a VIP ticket for him!

  348. Mr Derp: Personally though, I find endless speculation on teaser trailers to be a bit tiresome.

    Also, the next time someone posts that “Melisandre always gets it wrong!!!” just compare how much better she does from “teaser trailers” in the fire than most fans do with the same!

    Mr Derp: For example, some of the scenes with Arya and Tywin back in season 2 were among the very best in the entire show (in my opinion), but most of them really weren’t necessary to the plot.

    They did not contribute to the plot, but they contributed hugely to the story by providing development of not just Arya, but also Tywin. Tywin is (was) one of the biggest foils on the show, after all.

  349. ghost of winterfell: Varys on the show is not anywhere as shady as LF though. Look at all the shit LF has done.

    The big difference is that we’ve always known where Varys’ real loyalties lie, or at least we have long suspected. (In the book, Arya sees him discussing supporting the Targaryens, but there were a small number of fans convinced that it was not actually Varys as Arya does not know who he is; on the show, we just see him.)

    LF’s actual loyalties and strategies have confounded fans for nearly 20 years! The show might have finally made them plain. I confess a little disappointment: but, then, I was one of the nut-jobs in the “LF = Mr. Morden” camp….

  350. Wimsey: Also, the next time someone posts that “Melisandre always gets it wrong!!!” just compare how much better she does from “teaser trailers” in the fire than most fans do with the same!

    Wimsey,

    Wimsey,

    LOL. I looked in the flames and all I saw was……endless speculation on a transition shot from Cersei to the Night King and how they somehow must have something to do with each other.

    Wimsey: They did not contribute to the plot, but they contributed hugely to the story by providing development of not just Arya, but also Tywin. Tywin is (was) one of the biggest foils on the show, after all.

    Wimsey,

    Absolutely true, but a conversation between Varys and Dany could have the same potential to provide character development. After all, if someone saved your life, wouldn’t it be a lot more meaningful to hear the story directly from the person that had a hand in it rather than a second hand account? Also, Varys plays a critical role for Daenerys. Don’t they kind of need to speak to each other at some point? I don’t know what else they would discuss. Varys isn’t really going to discuss battle tactics or anything of that nature with her…as far as I know.

  351. A Dornish Tyrell,

    Aw, thank you. 🙂 I’ve been lurking around most of the time but haven’t felt I had much to contribute to the discussion, due to the time difference most points have been covered by the time I get here. Also, I’ve been plain too busy. Though I went a bit OTT over-analysing the first poster, haha!

    Chreechree,

    Yeah, the Jon sitting/standing in this teaser…

    The way I saw it first time, I just assumed he was sitting in the final shots because we’d seen Cersei and Dany actually sit down. This is how visual storytelling works. Plus the music’s lyrics (“Sit down…”). Plus it would’ve been awkward (and time-consuming!) to show him going around the table and pulling out the chair, sitting down and pulling the chair to. So I just assumed he’s also sitting down.

    Jon’s “throne” is a simple chair – not the raised, high-backed direwolf seat Robb and Bran used in S1-S2 (which the Boltons presumably got rid of) – and it simply wouldn’t show behind his back or over his shoulders.

    The contrast was there. Cersei and Dany on fancy, upraised thrones, the only seats, the only furniture in the room, Jon on a simple chair, on level with his bannermen, who’ve been provided with their tables, just as high as the King’s.

    I wouldn’t go as far as saying Jon is some King Arthur with his Round Table – the tables were arranged lenghtwise, starting from the King’s table, after all – but it does hint his kingship is less authoritarian than Dany’s and especially Cersei’s.

    That said, Jon not sitting down cannot be discounted by the visual evidence. I don’t know what that would mean. Being too busy to sit down? Keeping the seat for Bran? (I think in the show Jon knows Bran was alive a couple of seasons ago, Sam told him. In the books he does NOT know this.)

  352. Clob,

    I thought he was in the crypts at first because I didn’t watch the clip in HD and I don’t typically press full screen to view a YouTube video. I don’t know about everyone else.

  353. Drive by comment ‘cos I gotta be quick: Trailer squeeeee!! Only watched it once but the first thing that struck me was that the face at the end didn’t look like the Night King. The colouring is right obviously but the nose is wrong, it looks more like Wun Wun’s face at first glance. We assume they burned him but never saw it. Does anyone remember if it was confirmed? I only remember Jon saying Rickon should be buried in the crypt but nothing about any other casualties. And yeah, that certainly looks like a reflection of the Wall in his eye. Squeeeeeees off again, see you all later 😀

  355. Jon doesn’t look like he is in the crypts. that never even crossed my mind.
    Looks like the great hall where weve seen his brothers rule from.

    Also, would seem weird to have Dany and Cersei walking to their thrones and Jon randomly walking in the crypts.

  357. Clob,

    I’ve only watched this teaser clip on my laptop (I don’t even have a TV set, haha!) and I never thought Jon was in the crypts of Winterfell.

    The corridor with its light (from windows?) and lighting (torches or some other fire in iron baskets along the wall) looked, to me, the same as the Winterfell corridor where Roose and Ramsay had their confrontation in S5.

    The crypts just look different. Darker. Wider arched roof, pillars widely spaced.

    Plus, the “story” of this teaser is fairly straightforward: three monarchs walking to their respective thrones. The crypts would be a detour.

  359. A Dornish Tyrell,

    oh about Hodor? I know…
    hahaha
    Im saying I agree with you that it is him, and not an Ice Giant or someone else.

    The four remaining rulers… makes a lot of sense. And no, Euron does NOT count.

  360. Wimsey: Also, the next time someone posts that “Melisandre always gets it wrong!!!” just compare how much better she does from “teaser trailers” in the fire than most fans do with the same!

    Lol that’s an apt comparison!

  362. Mr Derp,

    Yes – While the plot is the road the viewer or reader sent on, the rest is what is picked up along the way to give it meaning. Books and shows that bore me are the ones that are completely plot driven. I need to see character development, and asides to bring it all to life.

  363. Dee Stark,

    It’s obvious that Jon is in the great hall at the end. It was the shot of him walking through the corridors that was the subject of speculation.

  365. DragonBallfan,

    hat’s the Night King’s eye,not a giant,i don’t know why people think it’s a giant since it doesn’t fit with the promo’s focus on the kings and queens of the story

    Im not saying it is, but there are giants that have died recently; its not out of the realm of possiblity that one could become a wright..

  367. Lulus Mum,

    Yeah, I agree with you. The final seconds of the teaser… We get the blue eye (Night’s King! Night’s King!) but as the camera pulls out, we get a glimpse of the brow and nose, which don’t look NIght’s King-y at all, they look more like a wighted giant.

    Mag the Mighty? He was killed by Grenn (still in mourning for him 🙁 ) and his NW companions in the gate tunnel at Castle Black… Though didn’t they burn all the corpses?

    If it’s Wun Wun, we’re in serious trouble. He died in Winterfell, three hundred leagues south of the Wall. So if he’s wightified, the Others have breached the Wall.

    It just seems to me that in this teaser, the nose and brows shown beside the “frozen blue eye” looked like a Giant nose and brows. The Night’s King is more ordinary looking, even handsome (by human standards).

  370. ash,

    Like many of the fine folks here, I was a long time lurker on this site because I enjoyed the GoT discussions. However, after a while of reading, it’s hard to avoid the temptation to get involved and join in on the debates/discussions.

    I decided that I had to add my opinions to the discussions, but, of course, also needed a name in which to do so.

    I never really intended to become a regular commentor, so I just picked a random name. I happened to be watching South Park at the time, and there is this random character named Mr. D.e.r.p., so I just rolled with it.

  371. OK, I’ve rewatched the clip. My first impression of the blue-eyed giant might be wrong. I suppose it’s supposed to be the Night’s King. Would fit with the theme of “monarchs” in this teaser clip.

    BTW, I’m intrigued by some posters above who see the Wall in reflection of the blue eye. I’ve tried to see it but I just can’t. I can see a reflection of some shields or gargoyles but not the actual Wall.

    And I of course subscribe fully to Old Nan’s wise words: the whole world is inside the eye of a blue-eyed giant called Macumber!

  374. Mr Derp,

    IMO, Varys can tell Dany a lot about her mother and brother Rhaegar too – he should have known them both. And this information may be necessary for the viewers too. So far, we know very little about the Targ family. An average viewer may be even unaware that Dragonstone was the seat of the Targs and so on. Therefore Varys may be use to inform the audience about things it needs to know.

  376. Chreechree,

    …a raised seat might communicate authority to his new vassals and be appropriate to his new position, but it didn’t help Jon with his Night’s Watch brothers. I think this arrangement suits Jon and how he views himself.

    ita! Yes, Jon tried the authoritarian thing as lord commander, and couldn’t make it work. Possibly the setting is a hint that Jon’s grown as a leader, knows what works and what doesn’t for him.

    I can imagine people kneeling before Dany and Cersei; their rooms are designed for ceremonial displays of power. Jon’s room is a medieval feasting/conference room, a more egalitarian place. Whether sitting or not, he’s less isolated than Cersei and Dany, on their thrones, which fits the story. Dany is an outsider. Cersei won her throne through murder and terror, has isolated herself. Unlike them, Jon has communal support, hence this hall.

  377. Tatjana:
    Mel,

    I think this is the first time ever I realized Dany, Tyrion and Jon were born in the same “manner”

    Tatjana,

    I’ve often thought about that connection. If there is such a thing as the three-headed dragon, then I always thought it would have to be Tyrion, Dany, and Jon because they all were born the same way. I have no idea why this ultimately connects them, but they’re mothers did all die giving birth to them, and I don’t think that’s a coincidence at all.

  378. Mrs. Podrick Payne:
    talvikorppi,

    Sansa must have told him too that Theon did not kill him and Rickon.

    Ah, good catch!

    Let’s walk this through. Sam tells Jon Bran is alive because he met Bran (S4, tells Jon in S5, I think, I forget the details). Sansa gets to know Theon didn’t kill Bran and Rickon (S5), and presumably tells Jon (S6). So Jon knows a lord/king with a better claim to the Winterfell seat might be alive. Bannermen proclaim him (the last (half-)Stark standing as they know it) as King in the North. But Jon has doubts because he thinks the Stark heir (Bran) might be alive.

    What is doing the right and good thing? Jon Snow is focused on the real war, the Others. Maybe that justifies usurping his brother Bran’s claim as Lord of Winterfell/King in the North. The Northmen who think both Bran and Rickon are dead proclaim Jon, Ned Stark’s son… But what if it becomes known Bran is not dead and Jon isn’t Ned’s son? Ah, I love these thorny dilemmas in GoT and the books ASoIaF.

    Oh, the weight of the world on his shoulders. No wonder Jon Snow looks miserable almost all the time.

  380. Mr Derp: Tatjana,

    I’ve often thought about that connection.If there is such a thing as the three-headed dragon, then I always thought it would have to be Tyrion, Dany, and Jon because they all were born the same way.I have no idea why this ultimately connects them, but they’re mothers did all die giving birth to them, and I don’t think that’s a coincidence at all.

    I’ve heard this argument presented over and over as ‘evidence’ that Dany, Jon and Tyrion must be the three heads of the dragon, and it always makes me roll my eyes. By that standard the dragon would have millions of heads, since childbed fever (sepsis following childbirth) was probably the single most common cause of death for females of childbearing age in medieval times – even up into the 18th or 19th century, when germ theory began to take hold. It’s too slim a thread to hang any theories on.

  381. ash:
    Mr Derp,

    Well, why did you pick Derp? Is there a way to incorporate it into a different word or phrase?

    You could embed d-e-r-p deeply into some longer name…like, say…Thunderputz. No, on second thought, that might not fly with the mods either.

  382. Jenny,

    I agree. If the promo makers were making a statement about him standing and what that means vs. Dany and Cersei sitting, then I think they would’ve clearly shown him standing in front of his seat behind the table, but no.

  384. maria,

    You and I are on the same page. Now, don’t get me wrong. I think he will assert authority to do what he believes to be right again if/ when necessary even if it’s unpopular, but he is going to be focused on bringing as many people together as possible in order to prepare for the White Walkers.

  385. Wimsey,

    Yeah you’re right. I just had that impression because its a close shot of his face, unlike Daeny and Cersei where you can see their legs. This shot of him in the trailer reminded me of the scene when Davos confronts Melisandre while Jon was standing next to that huge chimney. I went back and re-watched that scene and now I can see the difference… Sorry, I’ve worn eyeglasses since I was a year old for a reason… :oP

  386. Mr D_e_r_p,

    (Down-dashed your name as it seems to be a problem..? Just making sure my comment gets through.)

    Yah, I like the “coincidence”, or symmetry, of the births of Jon, Dany and Tyrion.

    Mel (31.3.17 at 7:14am) put forward a wonderful idea. The “growing up without your mother” club.

    I’m now seeing a hilarious group-threapy session with Jon, Tyrion, Dany, Missandei and Grey Worm.

    “I never knew my mother…” (Nobody will be able to say it as gloomyly as Jon Snow.)

  387. Lulus Mum,
    A Dornish Tyrell,
    ash,

    I was trying to solve the mystery of that blue eye and then something hit me. It’s hard to say whether the blue eye in the teaser is that of the Night King or of some random wight-giant, but one thing is clear: the blue eye we saw in this teaser and the one we saw in the previous one look completely differen.

    Is that a coincidence? Maybe, but I think it’s not.

    Eyes are often referred to as the mirror of the soul and similar and we know that the Night King controls all the wights. So, perhaps it wouldn’t be too far stretched to say that the Night King looks through the eyes of every wight: the thousand eyes and one, just like the Three-eyed Raven. And that brings in the qoute about living in a blue eye of a giant: the Night King is a giant in a certain sense, and everyone lives in his eye, because he is watching. Hence, the true name of the Night King is Macumber 🙂
    But on a serious note, his name may be relevant to the story. One of the most archeatypical ways of annulling spells is calling the spellbound person by his true name. So, knowing the Night King’s name may be important in the end-game. Maybe, calling him Macumber (Mac Umber?) will remind him his human identity or similar. IMO, Jon should try…

    Or maybe it’s a total tin-foil. What do you think?

  388. The Great Hall of Winterfell is quite a bit different than it was originally, which I suppose can be attributed to the changing of hands since season one. Perhaps they could have had Jon make note of it during the scene with Mel when he spoke of the room as a child. I you recall in season one there was straw all over the floor almost like a carpet, the head table was on a raised dais and there was a large ornamental wood structure sitting behind the dais. I suppose all of those items should be a assumed burned/destroyed during the initial sack. It would have provided a more kingly setting but none of it is there anymore.

    Scenes that the original Great Hall can be seen well are when the Lannisters are having breakfast during their visit, when Tyrion returned and gave Bran the saddle design drawing and while Bran is sitting as Lord with Luwin while Rickon is smashing nuts on the table.

  389. talvikorppi:

    Jon’s “throne” is a simple chair – not the raised, high-backed direwolf seat Robb and Bran used in S1-S2 (which the Boltons presumably got rid of) – and it simply wouldn’t show behind his back or over his shoulders.

    The contrast was there. Cersei and Dany on fancy, upraised thrones, the only seats, the only furniture in the room, Jon on a simple chair, on level with his bannermen, who’ve been provided with their tables, just as high as the King’s.

    I wouldn’t go as far as saying Jon is some King Arthur with his Round Table – the tables were arranged lenghtwise, starting from the King’s table, after all – but it does hint his kingship is less authoritarian than Dany’s and especially Cersei’s.

    That said, Jon not sitting down cannot be discounted by the visual evidence. I don’t know what that would mean. Being too busy to sit down? Keeping the seat for Bran? (I think in the show Jon knows Bran was alive a couple of seasons ago, Sam told him. In the books he does NOT know this.)

    No, I wouldn’t say that Jon is King Arthur either, but it is a parallel that many like to draw. The Winterfell arrangement clearly shows Jon as the head, unlike at a round table, but it has a more circular effect with that table arrangement. It feels more egalitarian than a raised throne with the audience looking up at their king/ queen. It fits Jon.

    No, I don’t think his concern about his place is about Bran. Jon was picked as king to lead the North through the upcoming war, something Bran has no experience in doing (of course, Jon has no idea of Bran’s abilities). There’s no reason why Sansa can’t be Lady of Winterfell or Bran can’t be Lord of Winterfell while Jon is king. That’s something to sort out if they all survive the winter (and, of course, then Jon might have to contend with what he’s actually heir to and what that means).

  390. talvikorppi,

    I think it’s pretty clear what Jon will do after learning that Bran is alive, but I’ll better cover it to protect the unsullied even if that’s not very spoilery for those who were following filming news.

    We know more or less that Bran will arrive to Winterfell by midseason and that Jon will learn about that while being on Dragonstone somewhere around Ep 4-5. And what is he doing in Ep 6? Going on a super risky mission to catch a wight. So, I think we can assume that in a way Jon will be trying to resove the problem of unintentional usurping Bran’s rightful position simply by getting himself killed or at least that he will be seeing this mission as a test: if he dies – so be it, if he survives – he still has a job to do. I wasn’t a big fan of this wight hunting mission but now when I think about all possible interactions between Beric and Jon and all the caracter development which may result out of that I get simply thrilled.

  391. 42 million FB views and 8 million YT views puts the teaser at 50 million views already!

  392. Wimsey,

    I share your doubts, actually, but should D&D decide to use the Stark king effigies in some magical way in the fight against the Others, I expect there will be one. And congratulations on probably being the first person on WotW to use the word ‘castrati’. You are, as always, a fount of erudition.

  393. I’m firmly on the side that believes the blue eye belongs to the Night King. The picture overlay that was I posted somewhere upthread confirmed it for me.

    However, I can see where some believe it might be a wight giant, based on the nose. But I can not believe that some believe that it could be Wun Wun, Mag, or Dongo. Jon told Stannis to “burn the bodies – all of them.” Logically, that included the big-ass giants killed at the Wall. And there is no doubt in my mind that Wun Wun was also burned. Jon and Tormund were right there when he died. They more than anyone know what to do with the dead. So, if some want to believe the blue eyed foe is a giant, go ahead, but please accept that it can not be Wun Wun, Mag, or Dongo.

    And don’t even get me started on whether Jon is standing or sitting in the promo. He. Is. Sitting. Down. ?

  394. Inga,

    Your theory reminded me of the Golem and the “Æmaeth / Maeth” affaire. Maybe Sam will find out something about that in the library of The Citadel? (as you can see, I also like to wallow in tinfoilery.)

    But I’m not convinced, to be honest… I think it’s a little bit far-fetched and the deal with the NK will go differently.

  395. Inga:
    Mr Derp,

    IMO, Varys can tell Dany a lot about her mother and brother Rhaegar too – he should have known them both. And this information may be necessary for the viewers too. So far, we know very little about the Targ family. An average viewer may be even unaware that Dragonstone was the seat of the Targs and so on. Therefore Varys may be use to inform the audience about things it needs to know.

    Yeah, I can go with something along these lines. In the show, Varys is a staunch Dany (Targ) supporter. Arya’s secret glimpse support this.

    In the books,
    everythig will be muddier and more complicated because Young Griff will conquer some lands and reveal himself as the son of Rheagar. He’ll probably win the Iron Throne for a time before Dany comes to Westeros..

    I can see why this storyline was dropped in the show. It would detract from the real story, the real end game.

    D&D have said they’ll end up in the same place than GRRM, though arriving there differently.

    The books are the books, the show is the show… And I’ll take the show ending which D&D tell us is broadly the same as the putative book ending we’ll get in about 20-30 years.

  396. Hate the song, especially the style. Completely takes me out of the world GRRM painstakingly built.

  397. talvikorppi: the same as the putative book ending we’ll get in about 20-30 years.

    If George had the ability to stop expanding his story and himself excluded the entire Young Griff arc perhaps he actually would finish. It was a very wise choice to eliminate all of that for the show. I wouldn’t have minded Lemore being included though. One can never have too many women that enjoy bathing in a river a lot. 🙂

  398. OMG! Brilliantly done!! And the song – James…Ace!! Takes me back to my school days listening to it on the bus!! ? Can’t wait for season 7…..

  399. BunBunStark,

    I agree Jon Snow is sitting down, the only one we see sit down is Dany from a far away angle, then a closer up angle of Cersei already sitting and then a super closer up angle of Jon too close to see him sitting but knowing he is. Just like the faces Cersei’s face is the furthest away, then we see Dany’s closer up and Jon’s super close up.

  400. Mr Derp,

    That’s true, I don’t think the prophecy 3 heads of the dragons will be a thing in the show to be honest but the three of them will all be bonded in a important way as not only did their births kill their mothers but they were outsiders even in their own families and alone Tyrion by Cersei and Tywin, Dany by Viserys, Jon by Catelyn.

  401. Rygritte:
    Hate the song, especially the style. Completely takes me out of the world GRRM painstakingly built.

    Aah, we fans are a disparate bunch. I loved the music (the 1980s, 1990s Mancunian indy band “James”). Maybe showing my age, there. haha 🙂

    These little teasers we get aren’t supposed to reveal the true story that will unfold, with full-on Ramin Diawadi music. The music is supposed to take us out from the GoT universe, tease us, connect with our universe. It’s a teaser, not a trailer. The marketing people will use suitable contemporary music (if late 1980s, early 1990s can be called contemporary) to give us a “contemporary” handle on the upcoming season of a half-magical pseudo-medieval world.

    I fully understand why some people didn’t like the teaser music. Not their kind of music. I loved the music, my kind of music, and the lyrics nailed it – I can see why the HBO marketing department used it. None of us are “right” or “wrong”. (But I think I’m more right, nehnehneh, hahaha)

  402. I just realized this is actually Dany’s first chair throne, she may have sat on top of a lot of steps but she sat on a bench with no back as depicted in the show and the books with her knights and advisor’s at her level and because she was sitting down higher up than her. So I wonder the placing of her knights and advisors now, is there enough room for them beside her or will they stand on steps lower down?

  403. I was around and old enough to remember when that track first came out.Didn’t think much of it then,don’t think much of it now either.However,I’m guessing the song has had a million listens on you tube,and probably sold 50,000 downloads on itunes.The band members are probably thinking,”wow,lets do a reunion tour to cash in!”. All because of a GOT S7 teaser haha.

  404. talvikorppi,

    That is true, though it wouldn’t be as big of a impact when they all feel the same way, Dany’s case her birth not only killed her mother but her conception too resulted from her father brutally raping her mother and her brother’s blame for her because of it, Tyrion’s own birth resulted in his father considering drowning him as a baby and his sister’s twisted cruelty, Missandei remembers being ripped from her parents to become a slave, Greyworm and Jon are closer neither remember or know anything, Jon only knows how bitter Catelyn was about the thought of Ned being unfaithful and being reminded of it every time she looked at him and her inability to bond with him and Instead consider him a outsider. Basically it would be a intense and emotional and beautiful.

  405. When the direwolves were found, Ghost was the only one with eyes opened. Of the three rulers in the promo, Jon is the only one who goes into his rule with eyes opened. Sure, Jon is still often naive but he understands what it is to rule in a way that Dany and Cersei do not. Both queens take pleasure in power, obviously Dany has often good intentions where Cersei does not. Jon sees clearly the burden of the whole enterprise. He had the advantage of growing up with true leaders but he also deserves credit for being able to curve his sense of entitlement and learning to follow, like Jeor Mormont told him to. Cersei loves being above everyone, and I mean everyone, even Jamie. Dany grew up knowing her royal heritage and despite her time with the Dothraki she was never really part of them because she was a Khaleesi. She may want to break the wheel but I doubt her plans include stepping down from power because she believes herself deserving of her position. Jon was forced to be one of the many, one of the black brothers (most far from lordings), one of the wildlings, one of the people. This taught him perspective and it opened his eyes. Wearing a crown and the power that goes along is not an award or a honor, it is a burden and it seems Jon is the only one who truly understands this.

  406. Clob: If George had the ability to stop expanding his story and himself excluded the entire Young Griff arc perhaps he actually would finish.It was a very wise choice to eliminate all of that for the show.I wouldn’t have minded Lemore being included though.One can never have too many women that enjoy bathing in a river a lot. ?

    You just want to see Septa Lemore’s tits, admit it. 😀

    But, yeah, after books 1-3, tightly paced, interesting, GRRM got bogged down on world-building and hinting at past histories and abandoned writing the GoT/ASoIaF story for writing lots and lots of pseudo-history, mainly about the Targaryens. He’s on record saying he likes writing about the Targs. He may have given up the main ASoIaF story because, as he knows the ending, it doesn’t interest him any more.

    In the light of this, it’s reasonable to assume the HBO show, D&D, will give us an ending, close enough to GRRM’s envisaged ending. We won’t know until about 2035 or whenever, when GRRM finishes the book series. We’ll never know if he dies before finishing the series. (As far as I know, GRRM has made his beloved wife Parris the guardian of his literary estate and nothing will be released posthumously.)

    Ho hum.

  407. Stark Raven’ Rad: I share your doubts, actually, but should D&D decide to use the Stark king effigies in some magical way in the fight against the Others, I expect there will be one.

    They never have done anything so arbitrary or so very Deus ex Machina. Again, just look at last year and the different ideas floating around about how Jon would be revived, what would happen in the North, etc. The correct ideas invoked previously hung Chekhovian guns, and the ideas invoking unhung guns all were wrong. At this point, if we don’t know it can happen, then we should assume that it will not happen: the guns that are going to be fired have already been hung!

    (I know that the idea that there are troves of magical powers in Winterfell waiting to be tapped is a popular one in some circles, but if this were to be the case, then we would have gotten some setup for it: and the show has completely failed to provide it, and most of the alleged setup in the books reflects the imaginations of some readers, not GRRM!)

    The other thing to consider is simply the nature of this story. What separates SoI&F from most fantasy is not just that it is a character drama, not a plot-driven story. Defeating the Walkers will not involve finding magical powers: it will involve hard choices where Jon and Daeny do not like any of their options, and where the things that they would like to see done are not options.

  408. talvikorppi: We won’t know until about 2035 or whenever, when GRRM finishes the book series.

    Yeah, all of those people who told me back in 1997 that they’d wait for the movie rather than read the books certainly are getting the last laugh now. 😀

  409. Clob: If George had the ability to stop expanding his story and himself excluded the entire Young Griff arc perhaps he actually would finish

    I don’t blame the Young Griff stuff so much as the Dorne and Iron Islands stuff. A lot of us were expecting the Young Griff stuff in the most basic form 15 years ago. After all, the whole setup was too simple: if you are worried about a dynasty being toppled, then replacing a toddler with another would be a really easy thing to do. As anybody who ever has been to a daycare (creche) knows, any given 1-2 year old looks a lot like several other 1-2 year olds, and if they are immobile (sleeping or dead), then they really are hard to tell apart. We had evidence that Varys was loyal to the Targaryen cause all along, so what we got was not too far from predicted.

    The Iron Islands and Dorne stuff introduced a whole bunch of very tertiary stuff that nobody really saw coming. The Young Griff stuff might have some payoff in the books: that is, when Daeny is up there making her big choices, then it is quite possible that her personal evolution induced by Young Griff will be part of what makes it plain why she does what she does. However, nothing involving the Dorne or Iron Island characters is going to be important to Jon, Daeny or Tyrion (or Arya or Bran or even Sansa). Cut all of that stuff, put Tyrion in Meereen several chapters earlier, and let an editor trim the Jon, Daeny & Tyrion chapters in other ways, and you get all of that stuff in one tasty volume! (All of the flavor and none of the chafe…. 😀 )

  410. talvikorppi,
    Bones was perfect & Wicked Game worked well. This only works muted. Heroes was terrible, too. Songs usually don’t work. Instrumentals always do. People watch to escape their world and lose themselves in another. Will somebody dub over the Sigils teaser with Taylor Swift’s Shake It Off to prove my point?

  412. Jon is sitting down at the end of the trailer.

    They don’t show him in the process of sitting, because he gets into his chair like Riker on Star Trek: Next Generation, and it’d ruin the mood. ?

  413. Inga,

    Therefore Varys may be use to inform the audience about things it needs to know.

    Oh, like who John’s mother is? (others may have posted that already, Im just trying to catch up)

  414. talvikorppi,

    growing up without your mother” club.

    as were the dragons (and Firannon, yes it works because all the other millions of similar children do not happen to be characters in this story 🙂 )

    That being said, the number is so meaningful in the western world that it would be easy to connect the meme to just about anything

    Mmmm — Does the number 3, or 7, have the same cultural meaning?
    Hope thats not a dumb question

  416. Inga,

    ‘one of those things that make you go hmmm Really. It would be dying for a noble cause, which he didn’t really do the first time (no fault of his own of course)

  417. Mel,

    Dany’s case her birth not only killed her mother but her conception too resulted from her father brutally raping her mother and her brother’s blame for her because of it,

    IIRC the jury is still out on this one

  418. Danny,

    When the direwolves were found, Ghost was the only one with eyes opened. Of the three rulers in the promo, Jon is the only one who goes into his rule with eyes opened.

    Wow, I think that takes fan speculation to a new level. I admire your attention to details! All kidding aside, I get your point and like it, tho to me its too ‘coincidenty’? is there a word for this?

  419. Rygritte: Heroes was terrible, too.

    Heroes was great: it basically told us what the story was going to be.

    The general music that they have been using seems appropriate to me because it’s of the style that was popular when the books first came out 20 years ago.

    ash: Oh, like who John’s mother is? (others may have posted that already, Im just trying to catch up)

    There is zero indication that Varys knows about Jon. Ned did ask Varys if he would send letters for him, but Varys told him bluntly that it would depend on the contents. Ned would never want Varys to learn the truth, so there is no way that he would have written that letter to Jon. (There is zero indication that he wrote any letters at all.)

    Now, Varys probably was skeptical of the story that Rhaegar abducted Lyanna. However, the aftermath of Rhaegar taking Lyanna away would have meant that Varys’ eyes were elsewhere. Moreover, the origin of Ned Stark’s bastard would have been a matter of little importance: most men like Ned had lots of bastards, and Ned’s reputation would have made it utterly unsurprising that he would have subsequently adopted his bastard.

    My bet is that only Howland Reed and the attendants at the Tower of Joy knew what happened. If they were loyal to Rhaegar, then they would not have let such information slip knowing (or at least thinking that they knew) that it would mean the death of Rhaegar’s son.

  420. ash,

    “Coincidental” would do the trick very nicely. And, yes, this is all pretty coincidental, I should think. Besides, Daenys dragons seemed to have their eyes open. And she certainly is going to Westeros with her eyes open: her rulership in Meereen opened them. Jon’s eyes are open now because he basically made parallel mistakes while Lord Commander.

  421. That being said, the number is so meaningful in the western world that it would be easy to connect the meme to just about anything

    Sorry, the number in that sentence should be 3.

  422. Wimsey: Coincidental” would do the trick very nicely. And, yes, this is all pretty coincidental

    duh, of course. forgive me, 2 weeks out of a hip replacement, don’t think the meds are entirely out of my system (and I am using that excuse as long as possible!) (oh, and I’m doing just fine. So wonderful to be pain free for the first time in years!)

  423. Chreechree,

    To clarify, I meant that Jon knows Bran is probably alive, the Northern lords who hailed him as King don’t. They think Bran is dead. So that is a bit of an internal dilemma for Jon. To accept the kingship is to “ursurp” his brother, though it’s for the greater good.

  424. Inga,

    Haha, I really like your tinfoil speculations. I never thought Macumber (the blue-eyed giant of Old Nan’s stories) was a Scottish scion of the house Umber.

    Robb pronounced it more like mah-kumber but it could be mahk-umber (MacUmber), haha!

    Tinfoil away, but this blue-eyed giant has been referenced twice, by people from the opposite ends of the country. Robb/North and Prince Oberyn/Dorne (as far south as south goes).

  425. A Dornish Tyrell,

    Yes exactly how I understood what she said too! Tyrion was a red herring I think. He had the light hair and mismatched eyes and dwarfism which house targ all has. But the love of fire, the madness and incest love are like really REALLY Targaryen traits.

    In the books, Jaime is my favorite character. I thought he would play a really huge role in the battle against the walkers. In the show, Jon is. Basically filling the shoes of what I thought Jaime could have been in the books.

  426. I think Seven Devils is still my favorite song choice out of any of the Game of Thrones trailers.

  427. Wimsey: ??Cersei is the first protagonist of the series to actually wear the crown of the Iron Throne.The other three have been supporting characters of one type or another.Or am I misunderstanding what you mean?

    Joffrey and Tommen were often wearing theirs

    Robert quite notably at the Hands Tournament

  428. Wimsey: Heroes was great: it basically told us what the story was going to be.

    It was over the top like John Cougar singing this on the teaser:

    A little ditty ’bout Jon & Dany
    Two Westerosi kids growing up in the heart land

    Jon he’s gonna be a flaming star
    Dany queen in the back seat of Jon’s cart
    Suckin’ on sausage outside the Crossroads Inn
    Dany sitting on Jon’s lap
    Got his hands between her knees
    Jon he says:
    “Hey, Dany, let’s run off behind a shady tree
    Dribble off those Jeggings
    Let me do what I please”
    Saying oh yeah
    Life goes on, long after the thrill of living is gone

    Sayin’ oh yeah
    Life goes on, long after the thrill of living is gone
    Now walk on

  430. Wimsey,

    Ah, I enjoy your well-thought out and well written posts. (Though I don’t always agree with your “engineer” type interpretations.)

    The question “Who knew?” as regards the ToJ is an intriguing one. All the three KG are dead, all but Howland Reed of Ned’s companions are dead.

    Still, I find it almost plot-holey that nobody, not even Varys, put two and two together. Like, Lyanna and Rheagar go missing for about a year, Ned turns up with a bastard. It’s intelligece 101 stuff, so why didn’t anybody connect the dots?

    My favourite explanation is that people who mattered resented Ned’s honourableness. It suited them just fine to take the ah-all-so-honourable Ned down a peg or two. They wanted to believe the ah-all-so-honourable Ned wasn’t ah-all-so-honourable after all. He fathered a bastard, neh-neh-neh.

    That is why Ned was able to carry out the deception. People wanted something to mock him for. A bastard! A-hahaha, Ned isn’t as honourable as he puts out. It would be out of character for Ned to lie about anything, let alone such a thing…

    Yet, that was exactly what he did. Lied to his King and friend, to his wife. All to protect his nephew. Poor dead Ned.

  431. talvikorppi,

    I understood your point. I certainly don’t think that Jon would intentionally usurp Bran, but I don’t necessarily see his kingship that way.

    Let’s approach this another way. Let’s say Theon never took Winterfell, and Bran and Rickon remained safe. Robb then dies in battle, not at the Red Wedding. What happens? Do the Northerners declare a young, crippled boy their king and keep fighting? Do they realize the fight is lost and return home and swear fealty to Bran as their king or as the new Lord of Winterfell. I’m not sure their hastily declared independence would feel so wise or pragmatic with their Young Wolf dead and winter fast approaching. I think Catelyn would have wanted to de-escalate things to save her surviving children, and Bran probably would’ve listened to her, which would’ve also meant, yuck, swearing fealty to Joffrey. My rambling alt-u is just to illustrate that I’m not sure the kingship would have long survived Robb anyway as it was a new and fragile thing.

    I don’t know that the Northern lords will regret choosing Jon over Bran due to his paralysis and the dire situation they’re facing. They plan to follow the man who got rid of the Boltons, who has fought the white walkers, and who they believe gives them the best chance at surviving. The North can have both Jon as king and Bran as Lord of Winterfell if they so choose. Would they, especially when Jon’s parentage is revealed? Perhaps, perhaps not, which is why I said in my earlier comment that they can sort out titles and such if they both survive. Jon would certainly step down if he felt it was right or if it’s what the lords wanted. Perhaps he decides to rule from the Dreadfort as someone needs to see to its people and lands. In the meantime, I think Jon will be too busy to agonize (much) over usurping Bran’s position.

  433. Lol I can’t wait to see what reasons people will come up with when Jon sits iron throne.. Of course he will be made king and he didn’t want to be king and all that will be said…maybe he should move out of that castle and have hut prepared for his chamber and council..why accept the title KITN at all in the first place ..
    Did people ever stop to think it just shows difference in the culture of different region..north being uncultured and not advanced like south ..hence we see the difference..
    Ramsey sat in the same chair now what will people tell about that …did ramsey shared views of Jon as well ..

    One can make any sort of interpretation to the advantage of their favorite .. while Jon sits comfortably in a chair cersei and dany sits on the throne which is designed to make those who sit on it uncomfortable and know what it must mean sitting on it and one should not get complacent while sitting in it.

  434. Yeah I just went back and checked Ramsay sat on the same chair …it was not raised and its the same now with Jon ..people can watch the scene where Ramsay meets smalljon umber and he presents rickon to him

    The only difference is there is more seats which is understable because jon has more supporters than ramsay did..

    Now I would like to see people come up with what all this means ..

  435. My man Jon Snow looking like the king that he was meant to be!

    I gotta hand it to Cersei. She’s all full of confidence and strutting her stuff!

  436. Lol I can’t get away from GOT, a horse named “Jon Snow” just won the Australian Derby Cup aka 2.1 Million in a horse race at Ranwick, Sydney haha

  437. dragonbringer,

    Lol yeah, teasers tend to be overanalyzed, but fans adding their own interpretations to them is what makes it fun.
    I genuinely think the messaging for this teaser is pretty straight forward

    David Benioff: Those last images from the show that aired last night showed that. Daenerys is finally coming back to Westeros; Jon Snow is king of the North and Cersei is sitting on the Iron Throne. And we know the Night King is up there, waiting for all of them
    http://deadline.com/2016/06/game-of-thrones-season-6-finale-david-benioff-d-b-weiss-hbo-1201780242/

    In addition to Benioff’s words, the teaser likely wants us to ask ourselves whether these three monarchs can work together, as the same threat is coming for all of them. Besides that, I doubt there is any deeper meaning.

  438. dragonbringer,

    That is very true, having a throne makes the burden of being a leader much more impactful and always knowing the burden you carry. Though I’m not too sure that counts for Cersei considering she is in it for the power specifically not the people she’s meant to protect.

  439. ash: duh, of course. forgive me, 2 weeks out of a hip replacement, don’t think the meds are entirely out of my system (and I am using that excuse as long as possible!) (oh, and I’m doing just fine. So wonderful to be pain free for the first time in years!)

    Those sorts of thing screws with your brain in weird ways. Between the pain killers and the trauma, people often have strange lapses in memory like that. “Chemo brain” is supposed to be the worst: my wife had all sorts of strange gaps like that for a couple of years.

    Hopefully you are feeling better! (Just as long as you remember that you still owe me $50, anyway….. 😀 )

  440. Ghost Lunch: Joffrey and Tommen were often wearing theirs

    Robert quite notably at the Hands Tournament

    Sure, but none of them were protagonists: they were all supporting characters of one sort or another.

    Chreechree: Do the Northerners declare a young, crippled boy their king and keep fighting? Do they realize the fight is lost and return home and swear fealty to Bran as their king or as the new Lord of Winterfell.

    That would have created an analog of a constitutional crisis. You are almost certainly correct that some people would have pushed to pass over Bran for Rickon. Some would because in that sort of society, people assumed that a broken body meant a broken mind. Others would have liked the idea of a regency, as even show Rickon was too young to rule. (He’s 3 forever in the books, it seems!)

    If Bran does make it back to Winterfell, then it need not create a crisis now. He seems to be serious about being the 3-eyed Raven: and becoming a King is a demotion when you are currently a god! And given that he’s still crippled, the Northerners probably will be happy to let Bran go on pretending that he’s a god: after all, the fall probably addled his mind. (“I mean, sure, I pray to the Old Gods: but, I mean, seriously, it’s not like I actually believe in them! Besides, aren’t the Old Gods supposed to be… um… well, old?”) At any rate, it might be a situation where the only person who wants Bran to take up the crown is Jon!

  441. Jay Targ,

    Mel,

    Yeah I don’t think cersei feels that way either ..I was just showing how one can make a point favorable to anyone they like ..

    Interpretation and speculating of the teaser is all fun but when it is so biased it feels so annoying ..

    People acting as if dany had made up a new fancy throne like Mace tyrell did when he was made hand of the king ..mind you dany actually removed the throne from pyramid and sat on a bench>..all three of them are just sitting what’s already there …the only changes were made by cersei who has replaced seven pointed stars and stags to lion of lannisters..

    And all this things about how Jon is only one who goes with his eyes opened and how kingship is burden and not just power ..
    Dany knew this and all way back in ASOS a king and queen is there for their people and queenship means its their duty to protect people not just right to power for their entertainment..and she didn’t have jeor or aemon to tell that ..

  443. ash,

    I was not trying to analyze the promo per say, I simply looked at the three monarchs and compared them to each other and yes, Jon is the one who more clearly understands what a true burden it is to rule. That is not my interpretation of the promo, that is my interpretation of the characters and their storylines, both book and tv show. Dany does understand the burden somewhat but part of her has always believed that she is meant to rule, to be Queen. She did not start pursuing the throne out of her want to help the small folk, she wanted to take back what was “rightfully” hers. I think her perspective changed with her life experiences but I’m not sure she truly understands the consequences of ruling. I am not sure anyone raised as royalty ever does, their thinking is always affected by their sense of entitlement. And how can it not be?

    The promo doesn’t tell us anything in particular that we didn’t know. There are three monarchs, two of them are kind of happy to be where they are at. They are getting what they’ve been dreaming about for so long. The third one is aware that things will only get more difficult, he has seen the true storm and he’s weary as sh!t. Oh yeah and Winter is Here as Ned always promised.

    I am always amused, in a good way, about how the fandom can come up with so many theories out of the smallest of details. Some ideas are nuts but still fun to read.

  444. Danny,

    Except they do ..aegon ,jahaerys ,baelor the breakspear ,aemon and aegon the unlikely, jaeherys grandfather of dany and daenerys herself ..all proven they acknowledge that this is burden and all grown up knowing they are royalty..

    I don’t know what difference that it makes dany wanted to take back the throne ..as a last surviving member of her family she wants to restore her family back its part of the same royalty ..it doesn’t change the fact that she knows with great power comes the great responsiblity and carry the weight of her people well being ..

    And its intersting you disregard dany being on the outside as a pawn in others games and her growing up on the streets or she is khaleesi so she doesn’t really know what it means ..than Jon doesn’t really know what it means either because as Mel pointed out he had better life than most as well..he grew up as a Lord’s son and had received all benefits from that position as much as trueborns got

  445. Mel,

    That’s so cute haha.

    dragonbringer,

    lol @ you thinking Jon is 100% going to sit the iron throne with the crap storyline he’s getting

    We can only speculate how it’s going to end.

    God forbid anyone have anything positive to say about this character. Yeah he’s always been the less flashy of the three and the North doesn’t seem to be big on ceremony and opulence like the rest (just compare Northern armor to Lannister armor for example). Big deal lol. This is all reflected in Jon’s character and how he’s king not because he thinks he’s entitled to a crown, but because people chose and wanted him there and that’s a fact. Problem?

  446. Flayed Potatoes,

    About jon sitting in throne we will see about that in the next 16 months I guess ….

    Jon getting crap storyline ,I wonder who gets the best storylines ..I guess that’s why he has become so Popular and well loved in the least three seasons.atleast he gets to have most number of screen times and lines written for him with his fanbase growing and remaining stronger ..

    Where did I say anything bad about Jon or against anyone who speaks positive about Jon snow ..
    I was only speaking against those who are putting down other characters just to elevate jon ..or you are going to pretend you didnt see those comments..

    The chair and room was always same at the winterfell whoever was lord or king …Jon didn’t remove a flashy throne and decided to sit on a chair …he is still taking the highest seat of power in the north and sitting on it ..if Jon is in south then he will be sitting in a throne ..I just see the difference in regions ..

  447. Flayed Potatoes,

    Silly fan wars are so silly lol.

    I have also wondered about this before. A lot of people keep talking about how Jon will end up as king. If that is to be the ending then why would the show almost entirely cut out his ruling arc.

  448. dragonbringer,

    Screentime doesn’t matter when there are plotholes galore in the storyline and when said screentime isn’t used wisely.

    The room in Winterfell looked different in seasons 1-2 (there was a dais from what I remember). But I guess you can chalk it up to Winterfell getting burned down. No biggie to be honest.

    Nah I’m not pretending. He’s obviously sitting down like the rest of them. I don’t know why that’s up for debate and how not sitting down makes him a bigger person or whatever. And if you’re talking about the tinfoil comments I think you are, at this point I just skip most of them because I’m tired of rolling my eyes.

  449. ghost of winterfell,

    Exactly. They cut his ADWD arc to the bare minimum, threw him under the bus in season 6 because they wanted the surprise Vale rescue and (leak)

    If leaks are to be believed he rules for 1 episode (2 at most) and then is held up at Dragonstone for most of the season (probably listening to Tyrion’s dumb drinking jokes). The only time he does something is in episode 6 because the show needs their big battle episode and swordfighting scenes (and they want the NK to get a dragon). And then he has to kneel to Dany even though she’s already committed to fighting the Night’s King lol. Oh and he probably knocks her up in the season finale. Huzzah for sperm donors! What a great kingship arc! lmao

    I sometimes wonder if D&D are skipping his ruling arc because they want the potential kingship to be a surprise for viewers, but D&D aren’t exactly this subtle when hinting stuff lmao.

    “A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing”

    *Jon walks in*

    “Hey guys!”

  450. ghost of winterfell,

    There maybe many reasons ..firstly they also didn’t show dany’s learning to rule either. .
    Second they have gone on a completely different path from the last two books ..

    I see how much show has elevated jon in the last three seasons and became THe Face of the show and how loved he is …I think show is on the right track towards that end

    Jon becoming king is most popular theory out there even before the show started and it has many good foreshadowings to it..
    Even without foreshadowing I will say he is the most eligible candidate for that role and take up responsiblity to bring westeros back to normal after wars of dawn ( i dont know saying this makes me a jon hater) and the other candidate is dany

    Flayed Potatoes,

    But like I said that happens in every plotline not just with him..and in some cases even worse than what jon gets ..

    That’s what iam saying people are making something out of nothing and then show it as how it makes him superior than others .

    Maybe I should just skip the comments all together and just leave after what I have to say ..I always try for that but fail to do so

  451. Flayed Potatoes,

    S7 leaks:

    The worst thing about the next season for me is that the writers seem to have made Jon directly responsible for the Wall coming down and bringing about the apocalypse. I wonder who among the audience would root for him to become king after that ..

    Oh boy it’s going to be soo much fun reading all the comments at the end of S7 lol.

    I agree, if Jon ends up as king at the end of this, there will have been little to no set up for it.

    dragonbringer,

    All the foreshadowing has been in the books and that’s why the theory has been around.

  452. ghost of winterfell,

    (leak)

    Exactly! I seriously hope the execution of that plotline is better. I get that he needs to provide proof, but oh boy the writing and execution for this should be convincing. They really have no problem throwing his character under the bus for the sake of getting a twist or big moment. It’s like they’re determined to bring him down every chance they get and I don’t get why lol.

    This site and every other GoT forum is going to be a hot mess after episode 6 airs lol. And let’s not mention the RLJ wank that’s going to happen if those leaks turn out to be true. Half of reddit has already deluded itself into thinking his name is Jaeherys and he’s a mere bastard lol. Everyone is going to be pissed.

    There was little to no buildup for KITN too. The only thing we got was “But Jon Snow is not a king” from Tormund lol. D&D were clearly just trying to hit a plot point then, but for whoever ends up on the iron throne in the end there has to be more buildup.

    I might switch to Team Schadenfreude this season. RLJ wank will be worth the effort. I’m going to watch GoT this season like I watch Veep.

  453. Mel,

    Only noticed tht upon 2nd view. What does it meeeean? Just a stylistic choice most definiteoy but you know many in this fandom are over thinkers lol I am one of ths.

  454. A Dornish Tyrell,

    Just curious. Why can’t people give their reactions in the negative? What’s wrong with that?

    Flayed Potatoes,

    My only problem was I felt the early seasons really beat into viewers the idea that bastards are looked down upon in this society. Then later on they fast forwarded too much for me at least to everyone just accepting him as the leader in the north who even Ramsey heard all about. I would have liked to see more build up to that on screen.

  455. ghost of winterfell,

    So?? The showrunners keep saying that they will follow the book ending right ..

    Again if he isnt popular or if people think he is not kingly material I wonder why he won that elections last year ..

    And talk about silly wars

    if people blame him for bringing the end then either they blindly hate jon or blindly love him ( blaming him is so stupid) ..
    If there is anyone that will be blamed then it will be those who didn’t listen to his warning and focused only on their petty wars and one who brought the dragon to north ( which is also stupid) as we have already seen ..

    He will still be the only one who had seen the real threat and didnt care about power or crown and only cared for the people ..while others are blinded by their hunger for power and entitlement he alone sees the picture and tyrion varys and Davos will support him for that ..

    Flayed Potatoes,

    Again tell me if jon is the only one who is thrown under the bus..
    A year after season 6 I see jon snow being still loved but sansa has suddenly become the most hated character..
    It will be the same when season 7 airs some jon fans will say he is not given proper treatment by D&D eventually it will cersei and dany who will receive the worst end of it ( I will say dany more because she may share the screentime with him similar to sansa in last season)

    How nice of you to leave out the thinga from the leaks such as

    How he will not punish those who stood by Ramsay despite sansa insisting

    He does not like to talk about his resurrection ( this will be made a point of how he doesnt brag about these things and compared with dany ..and we have seen it already happened)

    He spends all his energy trying to make this arragont dragon Queen to listen to him but all she wants is him to kneel for him and help in her war..
    She doesn’t even listen when people like tyrion varys and davos speak for him.

    So jon was forced to take a dangerous trip risking his life in order to make these Queens stop their wars and help prepare for the real enemy .

    He is so noble and modest and not blinded by power or entitled so he even is ready to kneel and give up his crown as long as she helped him in saving the realm..

    So bad right..yes definitely the one who receives the worst end of it ..

  456. Flayed Potatoes,

    ghost of winterfell,

    Guys come on you are being too pessimistic.I know we love Jon to death and we all would wish for more depth and scenes from the books but we can’t say they have done a bad job with him.The general audience loves him.He is one of the main characters and the focus has been mainly on him in the last three seasons.The public is all for him being king even with the differences in the ruling arc.The show is not GRRM,they don’t care about Aragorn’s tax policies.If he is meant to be the king in the end than he will be and the audience will feel it’s justified cause we know his character,his struggles and how much he cares about people.His popularity has only increased with the passing of the seasons and that’s thanks to the show.Now on to the leaks:

    Honestly I think this might be one of the better seasons for him.It certainly beats playing games with Sansa and Littlefinger that’s what I was afraid of.He is meeting other characters.Going places doing things.His motivations are the purest of them all to the audience.His priorities in order.That has always been Jon’s main goal saving the world,uniting the people against the WW.He has the high ground,the thrones don’t matter.I really doubt he will just listen to Tyrion’s drinking games lol.We know he has scenes with Jorah Theon and Dany and the dragons don’t forget the dragons.And nobody with sense will blame him for the wall falling that’s just stupid.He is not a seer lol and he didn’t even tell Dany to bring the dragons.Plus it’s a story obviously the wall has to fall.And the kneeling thing doesn’t bother me.I honestly think they want the juxtaposition of him pledging to her while revealing he is the rightful heir.And the RLJ wank it’s just that wank from book readers.The audience will be fine with it and even like the twist.Nobody will give a shit or remember that he already had a son named Aegon.Just accept that they were married.Jon is one of the heroes of the story and from what we know he will not stop being one in season 7.Don’t listen to Reddit they are deranged lol,but thankfully such a small part of the audience.

  457. dragonbringer,

    Jenny,

    Being popular and being king-worthy are 2 separate things though. I know people (show only) who love Jon, who name him as their favorite, and still don’t think he should sit on the IT, because they have absolutely no idea if he has any capability in ruling. That’s the point I was trying to make.

    S7 leaks:

    I don’t deny that Dany will probably get blamed too. But that doesn’t mean Jon won’t. It isn’t an either/or situation.

    He may not be clairvoyant, but there is no denying that his (and Dany’s) actions will cause the Wall to come down and people, not just reddit, will fault them for it. The message that comes out of this whole wight hunting business seems to be that if you try to stop some major calamity from happening, you will only make things worse. The Climate change deniers would love this lmao!

    The only ones who hate Sansa are the hardcore fans who frequent fansites. They are a small minority, most of the casual fans like her at this point.

  458. Flayed Potatoes,

    And yet you are still going to be watching and bitching like usual,you are truly the worst of the Jon fanboy kind . This is why it’s a chore reading the comments section lately,it’s either Dany fanboys like dragonbringer or Jon fanboys like Flayed Potatoes in a dick measuring contest for some fictional characters springled in with some Sansa fanboys in the mix .

  459. dragonbringer,

    I’m actually kind of annoyed he doesn’t talk about his resurrection haha.

    I’m sure people will be upset about his decision with the Karstarks and Umbers because he isn’t listening to Sansa or whatever lol. That doesn’t bother me.

    I didn’t see Dany as being arrogant. I mean, why should she believe in some 8000 year old legend? But I see where you’re coming from and how that might make some see her in a bad light. I hope it doesn’t happen and I personally don’t think it will. Claiming the iron throne has been such a huge part of Dany’s journey. I’d be upset too if some random guy showed up at my doorstep telling me to give up my dream.

    However:

    I find the whole idea of “look at these women fighting; they need this man to set them straight” to be very messed up to be honest. I hope the show doesn’t go in that direction, you know what I mean. That would be a disservice to the characters.

    Jenny,

    Like Ghost of Winterfell said, popularity and kingship are two different things. Which is why we’re a bit surprised that people think he’s 100% going to be king with the story arc he’s had.

    I want the Aegon wank to be true purely for laughs. I know it sounds petty, but it will be so entertaining. I also can’t wait for Jon and Dany to hook up lol.

    Some things I’m legit annoyed about, but hope the execution is better (wight hunt, Cersei’s pregnancy). Acting and direction can change things, hopefully. Some things sound bad on paper, but bad in a really hilarious and entertaining way. I’ll complain about some (when do I not complain lol), but I’ll still be poking fun at them while I’m doing it.

  461. Wimsey,

    Thanks yes I am – and this year for many reasons are a lot less stressful than last year when I was dealing with a hip fracture, so I can focus on healing, and not stress out over other stuff that is not helpful

    $50? Wait, I thought you owed me….

  462. Danny,

    I wasn’t being critical, just poking gentle fun at the way fans can overreach to conclusion. I don’t disagree with anything you say – just sayin

  463. WallyFrench,

    I guess the show writers thought that his character development of earning his positions in life was enough to gain the Northern support. They would rather follow a bastard with Stark blood and morals, experienced in rule and battle than to trust Cersei or her bastards to be their Queen/King.

  464. Flayed Potatoes,

    ghost of winterfell,

    While I agree that being popular is not equal to being king …but what if that’s what show runners are going for and want …if jon is not king material than no one else can be king except tyrion..

    To flayed potatoes

    Iam still hopefull that there are lots of things from leaks that are wrong or changed ..
    And I think Aegon will be one of those things

    I don’t find anything wrong in what jon does ..actually I agree with him on many things …I would like him to speak about his experience in resurrection but as many things I don’t think we will be getting it..

    What you said in the last paragraph is what my worst fear is and people here actually started claiming that and I hope it doesn’t happen that way and all characters have their part to play equally among them..

  465. WallyFrench,

    Yes I agree with you. It didn’t seem very…I don’t know… organic?? Like the show was rushing to get to the same point that will happen in the books. Even in the books George had to introduce Robb’s will to make Jon’s rise more plausible and socially acceptable and on the show they did a good job in previous seasons to show the stigma that comes with bastardy.

    I can get behind the fact that on the show they’re going for the narrative that he’s earned his position through his deeds, but it’s a bit strange that we didn’t see him interact with that many lords (especially in season 5 where he was making a name for himself as Lord Commander). Nobody in the north except Ramsay seemed to question his departure from the Night’s Watch in season 6. And even when Ramsay said the North thought Jon was the best swordsman or something I was like “lol what? since when?”

    dragonbringer,

    Reading Lyanna’s lips…she seemed to mouth Aeg- to me.

    We’ll have to wait and see.

  466. DragonBallfan,

    You always have the option of ignoring the comments you don’t like. We all do that from time to time.
    Everybody here has the same right to express their opinions I should hope, so long as they are not disrespectful or abusive towards others.

  467. A Dornish Tyrell,
    Noooooooooo! There’s only so much suffering we can take as viewers! 😉

    Clob,
    Aaah all becomes clear, thanks for that. I forgot his face was so lined, I imagined it as a lot smoother. I was gonna say ’cos he never gets any sun on it, but he must be really old.

  468. dragonbringer,

    You know, I have to agree with you about Dany and ask forgiveness for what I wrote about Jon and two entitled throne-sitting brats. You have convinced me.

    On the second thought all the three rulers form kind of a triangle in their motivations leading them to their respective seats (yes, I have to admit that Jon was shown sitting too).

    Cersei has always been over-entitled and always felt abused. There was no reason, speaking frankly, but anyway that’s how she has always felt and her power quest evolved as a result of her progressing paranoia. She siezed the throne to promote her own survival and even more to get vengeance over those who have harmed her.

    Moreover, the leaked plot implies that there might be one more very serious reason behind that: namely, Cersei may be already pregnant and caring about the future of her unborn child.

    Anyway, Cersei’s quest for power/throne is paved with the mixture of over-entitlement and inner insecurities.

    Dany is also both entitled and insecure, but in a very different way. Dany’s quest for the throne is a result of her entitlement, however, her entitlement is based on a hard evidence – she is the mother of dahons, after all. However, rulling is not so much her birth-right, but rather her birth-duty. She finds little to no joy in ruling; all she has ever wanted was home. But all she ever gets is the throne and she has no choise. She had an opportunity to choose home (family) over the throne back in S1, but then she was a stupid girl thinking she could have them both, so that doesn’t count. Given that choice now she might make a different decision, but it’s hard to tell, because now she has fully asumed ruling as her duty. The only thing she needs now is a worthy challenge: she’s done with slavery and breaking the wheal is too ambiguous. However, things are about to change.

    According to the leaks, Dany will come to full realization of the WW threat in 3 or 4 episodes, and bashing her for not buying all this ice-zombie tell-tale in 1 episode would be simply unfair.

    Speaking of Jon he might be the most open-eyed ruler of the three, but that’s only because he had 6 seasons to open them and in the beginning he was totally blind. Let’s be frank: Jon didn’t join the Night’s Watch because he heard of the WW; he did that because he wanted to lead, and the Night’s Watch was the only thing he could eventually lead in a legitimate way. Jon is much more ambition-driven, than most of his fans are ready to admit. He tries to supresses that ambition, but it pops up here and there: look just how happy Jon was when he got a chance to take over the command during the Battle at the Wall or when he was elected Lord Commander. As for his ability to realize the WW theat, he began to encounter the WW in S1, but he was fighting with the wildlings till the very end of S4 (not to mention that he tried to escape to Robb in S1). Only after being elected the Lord Commander Jon began to think about what he should do with his power, but only in Hardhome he realized the threat at full exten. And then he wanted to run – yes, especially after his resurrection. He overcame that fear during the Battle of the Bastards and finally accepted his fate as the King in the North – pro bono publico, but not only: he was deeply pleased by recognition he acchieved. Hence, I think Jon’s further actions will also be determined by this frustration between his wild ambition and fear that he has no right to that.

    Who knows what motives will be behind his actions next season? I have already written that the wight hunt may be at least partly inspired by Bran’s return and Jon’s desire to free the seat. Jon’s decision to bend a knee to Dany may also result from his inner insecurities: I fought, I lost, now you try.

    One way or another, I think that, despite of appearances, Jon is the most ambitions of the three, only his ambition is more related to beating the Night King, than to sitting on some throne per se.

  469. talvikorppi,
    You are right of course. I just got a bit over excited and thought “OMG wight giant, we’re all doomed!”. Didn’t think through the practicalities of where anyone was in relation to the Wall etc. That’s what happens when you watch something once and post in a hurry without thinking it through. Still that’s the beauty of being relatively anonymous on the internet, I can flatly deny to anyone IRL that I have ever posted anything embarrassing or stupid. “Whaaaat, of course that’s the Night King, who could possibly think otherwise!” 😉

    Inga,
    To confirm what Luka thinks, I was able to download this to watch on my tv so got a really large, HD look at it. (Anyone with Sky tv connected to the internet, you can get it in the tv guide window.) None of Dany’s bits look like they have any (blocks of) ice in them, just stone. The part when she sits down does look quite like stone in front of a triangular ice shape, but it appears there’s a really bright light source just behind her which makes the stone look much paler. And loving MacUmber the Scottish giant! 😀

  470. Inga: he did that because he wanted to lead, and the Night’s Watch was the only thing he could eventually lead in a legitimate way.

    Not quite. Jon joined the NW because he wanted to prove that a bastard could be honorable, and he bought the fairy-tale notion of the Watch as selfless “patriots” (not that this sort of culture really has that concept!) who honorably devoted their lives to protecting other people.

    Still, even that is important. For all of Jon’s growth, at his core he still buys that ideal, and it will inform his actions to the end. It’s very similar to Daeny feeling that as daughter to a great house, it was her place to be a piece to advance it’s interests. She, too, has grown: but that will inform her actions, too.

  471. ash: $50? Wait, I thought you owed me….

    Damn, your memory is back. OK, here are $50 Internet Bucks back at you. Sigh. Dont’ spend it all at the same place……

  473. Lulus Mum,

    Thanks for relply. I also came to the conclusion, that the passage Dany walks through is carved in stone. The interesting thing is that this stone is almost white, and Dragonstone should be black. So, it might be some other location

    Eastwatch or even Dragonpit.

    But on the other hand those rock formations at the shooting site were of different colour, so, maybe it is Dragonstone after all. We’ll see.

  474. dragonbringer: The chair and room was always same at the winterfell whoever was lord or king …Jon didn’t remove a flashy throne and decided to sit on a chair

    Something that disappointed me to no end was when I learned that “thrones” are a fairly recent concept. Monarchs and high lords would actually have a chair: everyone else would stand. Ostentatious thrones were more of a Renaissance thing.

    So, really, this should be the Game of Chairs…..

  475. Wimsey: Something that disappointed me to no end was when I learned that “thrones” are a fairly recent concept.Monarchs and high lords would actually have a chair: everyone else would stand.Ostentatious thrones were more of a Renaissance thing.

    So, really, this should be the Game of Chairs…..

    In the Muppet version, it IS Game of Chairs (as in Musical Chairs).

    But there is some wisdom in that ‘everybody else stands’ policy. One of the smartest management tips I ever heard was, ‘If you want to hold a meeting that gets to the point and reaches consensus quickly, don’t provide chairs.’

  476. talvikorppi,
    You really need a very high resolution version/screen to see it clearly but this is what people are looking at when they think they can see the Wall reflected in the Night-King-of-course-it’s-not-Wun-Wun-what-idiot-would-think-that-definitely-not-me’s eye. Screen shots taken from this clip. It doesn’t look that good in the pictures, it’s more Wall like in the moving image.

  477. Inga: The interesting thing is that this stone is almost white, and Dragonstone should be black.

    The stone behind Daeny is black and red. It also is highly reflective. In other words, it looks just like a massive obsidian vein. The only thing that does not look quite right is the way it is broken: because obsidian is not a crystal, it does not have cleavage planes, and you get fractures rather than the smooth breakage patterns that we see on the rock formation behind Daeny. However, it also is not quite focussed properly, so it might be the camera angle.

    Note also that the throne seems to be carved in a flysch, which typically form in areas where there is a lot of subduction, particularly of the sort that creates mountain chains. And where you get this sort subduction, you also get veins of minerals and (if there is a lot of sandstone or granite around to melt into glass)… obsidian.

    In other words, it’s just possible that the set was designed by someone who took (and actually remembered) Geology 101! 😀

  478. Firannion: One of the smartest management tips I ever heard was, ‘If you want to hold a meeting that gets to the point and reaches consensus quickly, don’t provide chairs.’

    I had an older colleague lament that the best time EVER was that transitional period where places went to “No Smoking!” but there still were a lot of smokers. Meetings went 30 minutes tops because too mamy people started getting the shakes. (Before then, they smoked in the room; afterwards, too few people were smokers and the non-smokers didn’t care if they passed out.)

    As for the Muppets: once AGAIN they get my brilliant idea before me!!! Will it never end?!?!?

  479. Inga,

    Cersei has always been over-entitled and always felt abused. There was no reason, speaking frankly, but anyway that’s how she has always felt and her power quest evolved as a result of her progressing paranoia. She siezed the throne to promote her own survival and even more to get vengeance over those who have harmed her.

    Not that this excuses her state of mind or her actions, but yeah she had lots of reasons to feel abused – lets see, her younger twin brother is allowed to do anything he wants in an all man’s world, she is forced to marry someone she doesn’t love, she is pushed down and put down by her father constantly – so she finds power and self esteem the only way a woman can in that world – through her children. Once they were gone, well, time to go off the deep end. Again not an excuse, but plenty of reasons

    I do think the rest of your post is spot on regarding motivations and what they mean to ruling. It will be so much fun to see whats to come. I hope they are not as black and white, that I will be surprised by the direction each takes. Based on the show’s previous record, I way I will be quite satisfied

  480. Flayed Potatoes,

    Eh I don’t see much difference in the show really lol.Why wouldn’t he be a good king?To the audience he has the chances and the right personality so they would be fine with that ending.If not him then who really?Appart form Dany obvs but the general audience would be fine with both or maybe Favour Jon a little bit cause he is the underdog.Leak talk

    As you said things will look much better in context the dialogue acting music scenography change a lot of things.I’m sure it will look epic.Plus it’s a story,I get what they are trying to achieve with the tragedy of the wight hunt.It fits with everything until now,the refusal to see the danger because of internal wars.The wall was meant to be taken down since the first page it doesn’t matter how it happens.It’s not like Jon and Dany bring it down themselves.Playing the blame game is pointless.Jon and Dany are both the good guys of the story but they are not perfect.Looking at the leaks I honestly don’t see that they are undermining Jon in any way same with Dany.Cersei and Jaime seem to have interesting arcs too even with the pregnancy I get their intentions.All characters are behaving in character to me.People are just blinded by hatred for one or the other.I can’t wait ’till they hook up lol.It’s been clear for me in ages I don’t know why people are so up in arms.It opens up the road for a ton of conflict in season eight.They can’t spend all the time in battles after all.It makes the stakes higher if they love each other.I don’t know how it’s gonna end.They could both die and have a child that survives and becomes the monarch in time,one of them could die or they could both survive and rebuild the realm.Obvs I want Jon to live and most of all be happy.I don’t care if he is King even though if he lives I am sure that will be his fate.And by that time nobody will think that he doesn’t deserve it or would be a bad king.

  481. Inga,

    Hi Inga *waves*. I need to go back and watch it on the tv again to see a really clear picture but my first impression* was that if we are seeing Dragonstone it’s much better lit than previous views. From memory it was very dark and gloomy whenever we saw it before but this time there seems to be a lot more natural light which would make the surroundings look different.

    Perhaps they took a production decision to actively light the place up? It was never exactly a happy place when we saw Stannis’s gang there, but if Dany has arrived she might fill it with joy and hope? Well a much better mood anyway. You know they pay so much attention to the overall look and feel, there’s no way if this is DS they allowed it to look noticeably different from before just due to continuity failure.

    * what do I know I didn’t even remember that the NK has a really lined face?

  482. Jenny,

    leak

    You know what’s so funny? People play the blame game with Jon and Dany, but from the leaks it seems like Tyrion and Varys are all ok with this wight hunt plan and working with Cersei. Somehow the two heroes who have never met Cersei are to blame more than the guys who have known Cersei for +20 years and are supposed to be the smartest guys in Westeros. It’s too funny lmao.

    Seeing Jon and Dany hook up and reddit/westeros.org have meltdowns over it will be hilarious. I too am excited about Jaime and Cersei. The pregnancy subplot seems a bit unnecessary for now, as they seem to have much more important things going on in their arcs.

    I too hope Jon lives, of course. And Bran, and Ghost, and Arya and so on. I’m resigned that my queen Cersei will bite it before the show is over lol.

  483. By the way, I just noticed that the still of Daeny seems to show conchoidal fractures on the walls behind her! That is a diagnostic feature of obsidian.

  484. Flayed Potatoes,

    Churchill sided with Stalin during WWII, so it is hardly unsurprising that these things happen if the players in question accept that there really is a Hitler-analog in the North. Sometimes, the enemy of my enemy is a necessary ally.

    What I do not understand is: what is going to happen to make people realize that the old fairy tales are true and that there is a Great Enemy far to the north?

  485. Wimsey,

    I can agree on that: Jon is an idealist and this is important factor. I can agree that he was compelled to defend the North – from the wildlings. But even you can’t deny, that he earger to do that as a leader – he almost quit, after he was assighed to the stewards.

    It’s also worth to mention, that later Jon admitted that he used to envy Robb, so, he was quite aware of his wildly ambitious nature, which also showed itself in the Winds of Winter, when he talked with Mel about who used to sit where. IMO, Jon’s idealism is at least partly determined by this internal conflict between an inborn ambition and belief that this ambiotion is unjustifiable. Awareness that he is ambitious and envious person makes Jon that deep inside he is not that good, and so he struggles to be better and to find at least some justification to his existance. That’s why he tends to overreact, when he fails to win fair and square – in a way, he is a perfecionist but that’s good news, because he won’t abandon the war for dawn until it’s all done and dusted.

    In general, this mixture of a wild ambition, idealism, and rigid moral code is very productive. Ambitious idealists have much more energy than pure idealists who simply contemplate on their idealism or make sacrifices which turn out to be not that effective. Ambitious idealists always seek some hypercompensation for their true or imaginative misfortunes, but moral code makes them to seek in a form of achievement, rather than position and do it in a right way. There is a similarity and also major difference between Jon and Cersei: both of them are driven by the same initial dissatisfaction and feeling that they are entitled to something more. But Jon always has his hand on the brake, while Cersei… Well, Cersei simply lives in a different reality, where all the world is continuously scheeming and conspiring againts her, and thus she feels like having the moral right to pay back the with the same coin. Just like Putin (sorry, couldn’t help).

  486. Inga: Well, Cersei simply lives in a different reality, where all the world is continuously scheeming and conspiring againts her, and thus she feels like having the moral right to pay back the with the same coin. Just like Putin (sorry, couldn’t help).

    Heh, more like Putin’s puppet! Cersei’s other problem is that she has zero clue that there are things about which she has no clue. The hallmark of stupidity is ignorance of one’s own ignorance, after all. (Again, Putin’s Puppet shares this!)

    Jon, on the other hand, knows that he “knows nothing.” That is not to say that Jon thinks that he’s completely ignorant: but he knows that there is always more to learn. Some of the leaks are consistent with that.

    That stated, I would disagree with one thing: Jon is not a perfectionist. He is pragmatic when it counts and understands that the perfect is the enemy of the good. We saw that last year: instead of holding out for more troops that probably will never arrive, he goes to war with what he has. He knows that they will probably lose: but he also knows that they will definitely lose if they keep sitting around letting morale, discipline and supplies dwindle. (This was a key thing that people shouting “If Sansa had told Jon about LF, then Jon would have waited!” were missing: as Jon had zero way to verify this on short notice, and as time is almost as great an enemy as the opposing army when you are in Jon’s situation, Jon should still have gone forward then and there.)

  487. ash,

    Sorry, but I’ll play Mel and tell to Cersei that it cold have been worse.

    Firts of all, I don’t believe that Jaime could do whatever hewanted: living up to the high standard of Tywin’s golden lion must have been a hell and all the scenes between Jaime and Tywin prove that.

    Secondly, Cersei has always wanted to be a queen and her father found her a king – young, handsome, and victorious. Cersei even liked him. Yes, he loved Lyanna, but Lyanna was dead. Had Cersei respected his feelings and offered compasson, she would have ended loved and worshiped. Ned was in a similar situation: Cat also loved his elder brother and mourned his loss, when they married. But obviously, Cersei was not Ned and got the marriage-wrech she deserved.

    As for her children, Tommen turned against her, and Myrcella would have turned as well had she lived. Remember, she was worried whether her mother would like her beloved Trystain. It’s not hard to imagine, what would have evolved from that. As for Joffrey, he simply despised his mother, though he had at least some respect to Robert and cried at his death-bed quite sincerely. All of that was Cersei’s fault, too.

    So, all in all she had all the setup to live a happy life, but her hatefullness wrecked everything she touched.

  488. Wimsey,

    Jon is not a perfectionist. He is pragmatic when it counts and understands that the perfect is the enemy of the good…as time is almost as great an enemy as the opposing army when you are in Jon’s situation, Jon should still have gone forward then and there.)

    Pragmatic as in wrecking the one strategy that could have worked for him, at the very beginning of the battle? A paragon of self knowledge who disagrees with Sansa when she warns him that Ramsay is a better manipulator than he is, and will try and force him into a trap?

    He wasn’t particularly pragmatic last season. He wasn’t aware of his shortcomings. To put it mildly, he was not well. Where he differs from Cersei is that he is, I think, capable of learning, capable of changing. He always has been; like Dany with the Dothraki, he can assimilate into different societies, remake himself to an extent. Cersei can’t do that, not in the novels, not on the show. When faced with the paradigm-changing Walkers, she won’t be able to adapt. She’ll stay on her vengeance-power course.

  489. Wimsey,

    I would say that Stalin would be a much better analogue for the Night King, and the hysteric carpet-eatng vegetarian is better represented by Cersei. We could take GoT as a reverse alternative of the WWII scenario. But in general, you have to act swift, when you side with an enemy against another enemy, so

    I have a feeling that Jon and Dany will have to regret their alliance with Cersei biterly. But on the other hand, Jon may feel that dismissing cooperation with Cersei would be unfair, after he hanged Olly basically for dismissing cooperation with those who killed his family. In general, it looks like Jon will be trying to show kindness all over the season, but, as Stannis said “If you show too much kindness, people won’t fear you.” All in all, it looks like Jon’s learning arch will continue into S8 and into the ultimate climax.

  490. Lulus Mum:
    talvikorppi,
    You really need a very high resolution version/screen to see it clearly but this is what people are looking at when they think they can see the Wall reflected in the Night-King-of-course-it’s-not-Wun-Wun-what-idiot-would-think-that-definitely-not-me’s eye. Screen shots taken from this clip. It doesn’t look that good in the pictures, it’s more Wall like in the moving image.

    This is what I see:
    Lower left a figure ( female to me ) hands on lap, center of pupil top of wall and upper right a face skeletal to me.
    I didn’t look close as many, because we all sort of see what we want, which can drive us crazy.

  491. Wimsey,

    Well, maybe, a perfectionist is not the right word (but neither is pragmatic).

    When I called Jon a perfectionist I ment his state of mind after Hardhome, resurrection, and the Battle of the Bastards. Another man could have assumed and presented all these three as victories. Hardhome was a more or less successful retreat: a bunch of wildlings were saved and 1 WW was killed. Ressurrection and everything around that ment that Jon’s fraction prevailed in the NW and started cooperating with the wildlings. Battle of the Bastard’s was Jon’s victory (the Vale was very helpful, but it was Jon and his men who were the heroes of the day). So, another man would have said: yes, there were certain shortcommings, but in all three cases I won, won, won. Meanwhile, Jon was all about: “I failed, I lost, I should have done more/better.” Maybe, it’s humbleness, rather than perfectionism, but it does Jon a bad services. He should lear some PR tricks and how to capitalize on his achievements.

    (And as for Putin, the only difference between him and Cersei is that Putin had some happy life, until shit hit the fan in 1989, in other ways they are pretty similar – especially when it comes to the level of stupidity and falling into the trap of monsters of their own creation.)

  492. ghost of winterfell,

    I actually don’t have that option,i don’t know what you’re talking about,but i do wish that was true . And it’s hard to skip over Flayed boy’s comments when he makes over 500 for each article,in this article alone it feels like half the posts are his .

  493. Wimsey:
    Flayed Potatoes,

    Sometimes, the enemy of my enemy is a necessary ally.

    What I do not understand is: what is going to happen to make people realize that the old fairy tales are true and that there is a Great Enemy far to the north?

    Re: enemy – Oh definitely. I agree that sometimes you have to work with your enemies to defeat a bigger enemy.

    I guess some will only realize once they’ve actually seen proof. Or worse, once the WW are right at their doorstep killing everyone. These are pretty much the same people who didn’t send help when wildlings were attacking the Wall so…..

  494. Inga:
    Wimsey,

    Well, maybe, a perfectionist is not the right word (but neither is pragmatic). …

    … another man would have said: yes, there were certain shortcommings, but in all three cases I won, won, won. Meanwhile, Jon was all about: “I failed, I lost, I should have done more/better.” Maybe, it’s humbleness, rather than perfectionism, but it does Jon a bad services.

    Maybe a better way to put it is that Jon suffers from the very common ailment of Impostor Syndrome. Having been raised to believe that, as a bastard, he could never amount to much, he has difficulty giving himself credit for any of his successes. He thinks of them as flukes, attributes them to luck or coincidence or somebody else’s mistake or sacrifice. And coming back from death didn’t seem to do much to enhance his self-confidence.

    I think that he remains a pragmatist insofar as he’s always willing to do what he thinks he ‘has to’ do – not that his judgment is always sound. It’s just that his perception of what he has to do keeps shifting with what he learns about reality: an indication of sanity, in my view!

  495. maria: Pragmatic as in wrecking the one strategy that could have worked for him, at the very beginning of the battle?

    Never confuse what people do in such situations with who they are intellectually. His little brother had just been cut down in front of him: emotion would have trumped intellect at that point.

    Ironically, it turned out to be pure strategic genius even if it was tactical folly. After all, what is more heroic than a man who charges the enemy single-handedly to avenge his brother?

  496. Firannion: Maybe a better way to put it is that Jon suffers from the very common ailment of Impostor Syndrome.

    Interestingly, Imposter Syndrome is much more common in bright people than in dummies! It can be an easy trap into which to fall: when you are aware of your ignorance and your shortcomings, and when you are aware that other people have the knowledge and/or the abilities, it can become just too easy to feel that your accomplishments pale next to those accomplishments. After all, everything that you can do or know is now “obvious” to you!

    I could see both Jon & Daeny getting Imposter Syndrome in one-another’s presence. Both might respect and admire what the other has done and for what the other stands without realizing that he/she has done and stood for much the same.

  497. Wimsey:

    Ironically, it turned out to be pure strategic genius even if it was tactical folly.After all, what is more heroic than a man who charges the enemy single-handedly to avenge his brother?

    I do wonder how influential this image was in the Northern lords declaring Jon their king – the sight of the Bastard of Winterfell riding out in front of an opposing army to try and rescue Ned Stark’s true-born son, and then staring down Ramsay’s cavalry in spite of the danger it posed to his own life.

  498. Firannion,
    Wimsey,

    Yes, it looks like the Imposter Syndrom might be a right characterization for Jon’s state of mind. Not only he was restrained by his status as a motherless bastard, but there was also Rob. And in Jon’s eyes Robb was an absolute perfection and better in every way possible: not only he was a legitimate and firstborn son, he was also more confident, he wore his lordship like a second skin, he had better leadership and battlefield commanding skills, he even was taller. And when Jon said that he wanted to be a Stark, IMO, he ment to be Robb Stark, first of all. Now he is turnng more into Ned. But I can definitely see Jon getting an attack of Imposter Syndrom in Danys presence, especially after

    she saves him and his team.

    As for Dany, I don’t think so. She is too confident of her birth-duty. However, after Jons parentage is revealed, things may change dramatically.

    Wimsey,

    BTW, you wrote: “What I do not understand is: what is going to happen to make people realize that the old fairy tales are true and that there is a Great Enemy far to the north?”

    Maybe, there won’t be a need for all the people to realize? Team-Dany is kind of primed to realize that with the help of Trion. And Cersei’s Small council has shrunk to obedient and rather unconventionally thinking Qyburn. Euron may join that, but somehow I fing it hard to take him seriously, even if he builds a thousand ships – the land forces are under Jaime, and therefore Jaime is the only one who has to be convinced.

    And for Jaime a kicking wight may be a sufficient proof, especially if he is expecting to become a father once again. Jaime has only started to embrace the joys of fatherhood, he will care about the future of his unborn child much more, than about Cersei’s oppinion and it’s ironic that the child Cersei will be using to manipulate him will drive a final wedge between them. At least, that’s how I interpret the leaks.

  499. Inga,

    With the help of Tyrion? He’s the one who mocked Jon in S1 for considering the possibility of the existence of WW, grumpkins and snarks – and all the other monsters in the stories his wet nurse told him.

    Now, I’m not sure what effect Tyrion’s own subsequent experience seeing living dragons will have on his outlook, though to his knowledge dragons were actual living animals thought to have become extinct ~ 100 years before he was born; and the historical dragons left their mark (eg Harrenhall).

  500. Gina,

    I understand that. I just felt that after building such a base of bastards being bad. They hit warp speed on everyone loving Jon. But that was across the board. Even Ramsay too. Everyone was cool with a bastard recently made legal running the show. Minor quibbles I know. Just stood out as I read and rewatch the off season away.

    Flayed Potatoes,

    Phew. I’m glad I’m not the only one who was thrown off by that lol. I understand they’re running out of time to tell the story. But for an obsessive like me 10 more minutes of people coming to terms with being led by a bastard would have done wonders.

  501. Alba Stark: the sight of the Bastard of Winterfell riding out in front of an opposing army to try and rescue Ned Stark’s true-born son, and then staring down Ramsay’s cavalry in spite of the danger it posed to his own life.

    It would be tough to not think of Jon as a “True Stark” after that. And, of course, the story probably grew in the repetition: by the time all of those people had assembled (it would have had to have been weeks later), Jon probably had taken down half of the Bolton forces by the time the rest of the army caught up to him!

    Ten Bears: He’s the one who mocked Jon in S1 for considering the possibility of the existence of WW, grumpkins and snarks – and all the other monsters in the stories his wet nurse told him.

    Tyrion is the only one that did not ridicule Moramont’s claim about wights. However, “not ridiculing” is a long way from “taking seriously!” The Red Church could have some role within Daeny’s forces: it’s been established that they see something like this happening, and it’s also been established that they are supporting Daeny. And, of course, the loose canon of the Red Church, Melisandre, is still out there.

    I do not see how Cersei can be persuaded. Her hatred of (and superiority complex over) the northerners would blind her to taking it seriously even if the effects were becoming more tangible. She probably would think it some ruse by the Northerners to get some strategic advantage over the southerners (before Qyburn pointed out that it actually would be a tactical one).

    But when it comes down to it, we still have not seen the northerners persuaded that the Walkers are back. Jon avoids mentioning them by name: and the fact that some northerners think that returning to their individual strongholds to ride out the winter is an OK idea, they obviously are not thinking of the Walkers being back. I had thought that the Wall would come down at the end of last year, which would pave the way for that. (I was so convinced that the Pink Letter would result in the Wall getting sacked!)

  502. Wimsey,

    IMO you sort of underestimate Cersei. Yes, she hates the northerners, but in general she is quite capable of accepting new phenomena. For instance, the Sparrows was a new phenomenon she didn’t understood, but she immediately tried to used this movement for her own benefit. Or the Franken-Mountain: Cersei has never bothered how Qyburn managed to reanimate him or that his very existence looks crazy – all she cares about is that the Mountan has become stronger and more obedient and that she can use this zombie for her own benefit. So, I think her reaction to the WW will be similar: she won’t bother about their origins or goals or any other details. The only thing she is going to catch will be that her enemies have some other enemy, and that will be pretty cool i Cersei’s eyes. However, she will have to take into account Jaime’s oppinion, and if Jaime’s oppinion on the Franken-Mountain is any clue, Jaime will see the WW (or wights) as an abomination, too.

    As for team-Dany, Tyrion is primed to take the threat of the WW seriously, but it’s quite possible, that it will be Dany who will come to realization first. She has a stronger instinct and more personal experience, when it comes to supernatural and, more importantly, she will fall in love with Jon (it would be impossible not to). And a woman in love is a follower. Man in love is a follower, too, but in this particular case Dany should fall in love first, because falling in love is her heart’s desire, as we can conclude from the Winds of Winter. Meanwhile, Jon have never wanted to fall in love and when he did he got an arrow some inches from his heart, so he’ll need time to warm up and it will happen only after Dany joins him in his fight.

    And as for the northerners, they may be in disbelief, but they missed all the fun during the BOTB and now want Jon to lead them into another victory. For them there is no big difference, whom they are going to fight.

  503. Wimsey: It would be tough to not think of Jon as a “True Stark” after that.And, of course, the story probably grew in the repetition: by the time all of those people had assembled (it would have had to have been weeks later), Jon probably had taken down half of the Bolton forces by the time the rest of the army caught up to him!

    True! There has to have been some exaggeration there!

    I do think that Jon’s actions show his loyalty to Ned’s true-born children and show that it was never his intention to usurp Winterfell from Ned’s true-born son. This serves, I think, as a great contrast to Ramsay – who essentially fed his true-born half-brother to his hounds.

    Another thing I find important about that scene – and another Jon/Ramsay contrast – is the way Jon essentially leads from the front; he rides out and fights, while Ramsay stays back on his horse and directs the battle from a comparatively safer vantage point. And it isn’t just this battle in which Jon acts like that – when the NW men go north to Craster’s in 405, it is Jon that is at the front of the charge; in 409 and 508 Jon shouts for the NW men to follow him – Jon leads from the front, and that is something that Northmen would, I think, value in a leader.

  504. Lulus Mum,

    *Waves* Thanks for the screenshots of the frozen blue eye!

    Nope, I still cannot see the reflection of the Wall – which is quite funny because I went totally OTT about the poster a few weeks ago, seeing all kinds of things in it, waxing lyrical about being a “visual person” and all, hahaha! Pride comes before a fall, hahaha!

    dragonbringer,

    I feel your pain at most of the casual GoT fandom not agreeing with you and preferring another character over your favourite.

    You repeatedly bring up book knowledge but the books are the books and the show is the show, and the two are now quite separate.

    In an earlier post you even brought up past Targaryen rules to make your points… But they have never been mentioned in the show. They’re less than irrelevant in the show, they just aren’t mentioned. I love the ASOIAF books and the tangential novellas and the “World Book” but those are in the book domain, the show is a different thing.

    I see how the show has “narrowed” and simplified Dany’s story, but that’s inevitable. A TV show/film cannot give the rich inner monologue, thoughts of characters – and this applies to all POV characters – that the books do. The actors have to try to show it all with subtle facial expressions. And boy! aren’t they great at it. GoT is blessed with a huge cast of hugely talented actors.

    My favourite’s story and arc has been “butchered” (a word favoured by book purists) by the show but I’m not whining about it. I can see the logic why this was done. I’m patiently waiting to see if he ever catches up to where he is at the end of the books. Maybe he never will, his show persona is quite different from the books. Ho-hum. You win some, you lose some. It’s not all that serious.

    I see there’s been lots of discussion going on between Winsey, Inga and others. I’ll now go back and read. 🙂

  505. Grail King,

    Woah, you’re seeing an entire story in there! Hopefully time will tell and in 3-4 months all will be revealed. It’ll probably turn out he was watching tv and it’s reflection of Big Bird from Seseame Street or something 😉

    And as a King, Your Grace, shouldn’t you get to be in the promo too? Looking at your grail or whatever a Grail King does? 😀

  506. talvikorppi,

    Hi Talvi *waves back*. Perhaps you used up all your visual powers on the poster and are not yet back to full all-seeing-power for the teaser? As with the show itself, everyone seems to be getting different things out of this and it’ll probably end up being either nothing, or something that no-one spotted 😀

  507. Lulus Mum,

    Yah, I know, we’ll all probably end up being wrong, lol!

    One thing I took from this teaser, and it’s a very simple thing, is that we’re simply shown three parallel things, three monarchs walking to their “thrones” and sitting down. Beautifully simple. But it invites us to compare and contrast, and interpret, and, boy, haven’t we done just that! Very clever of HBO. 😀

  508. talvikorppi: Yah, I know, we’ll all probably end up being wrong, lol!

    For perspective, this should tell us how tough Melisandre’s job is: she has to predict the future based on teaser trailers, too!

  509. Inga: For instance, the Sparrows was a new phenomenon she didn’t understood, but she immediately tried to used this movement for her own benefit.

    The Sparrows would not have been a new phenomenon. As Olenna puts it, the “Man of the People” is an old game. If Cersei had not known what they were, then she would not have thought to use the Sparrows.

    Inga: Or the Franken-Mountain: Cersei has never bothered how Qyburn managed to reanimate him or that his very existence looks crazy – all she cares about is that the Mountan has become stronger and more obedient and that she can use this zombie for her own benefit.

    Again, this is very different. Cersei knows what the Mountain is: nobody is asking her to accept that something she already thinks is nonsense is true. For someone like her, hearing that the Walkers are back would be like us being told that the leprechauns are back. How can something that never existed by back? In our very modern parlance, she would dismiss it as “fake news.” Indeed, given Cersei’s Dunning-Krugeritis, she would consider it more evidence of how dumb her foes are that they think that they could fool her with such an outlandish story.

    Inga: For them there is no big difference, whom they are going to fight.

    One of the primary lessons of last season is that Northerners do not blindly follow. The difference between the Northerners and the Southerners is that the former accept that the Walkers did once exist, but now are gone, whereas the Southerners think that they never existed at all. It’s like showing dinosaur bones to a normal person and a religious fanatic: one person says: “Yes, there used to be dinosaurs, but they are extinct” and the other says “They never existed: those are just rocks made by Satan or scientists to fool us.” Now, tell them that non-avian dinosaurs are back: both will tell you “Um, no, that cannot be.”

    Given how bad things are for the Northerners in general (years of war followed by the onset of winter), they are going to need good reasons to muster their forces! Selling “extinct things are back” could be tough.

  510. Wimsey: For perspective, this should tell us how tough Melisandre’s job is: she has to predict the future based on teaser trailers, too!

    Quite. We’re all Melisandre, haha!

    Maybe we can all now have some sympathy for the flawed red priestess.

    OK, everybody finds it hard to forgive her for many things, mainly burning poor, innocent, lovely Shireen, but at least about a half of the fandom are willing to overlook that for her “bringing back” the beloved broody bastard. It just shows up us for what we are: willing to bend the rules for a favourite. Morals like rubber bands.

    Which is quite realistic. Few people in real life are as “honourable” as poor dead Ned. And he wasn’t either, he lied to his King and the world, and ultimately chose “love” over “honour” and “duty” – Aah, remember that scene between Jon and Maester Aemon back in S1. “Love is the death of duty”. Aah, the things Ned did for love… Wait, what? Who’s the other character who “does things for love”?

    Yes, Ned and Jaime might resent/despise each other but they’re ultimately coming from the same place.

  511. Wimsey,

    In regard to the Sparrows, don’t compare Cersei with Ollena. Ollena – or rather Margeary, but we all know who was behind her – was playing “The man (or lady) of the people” all along, and she was fully aware that it was a power game. Meanwhile, Cersei… OK, I can agree that the Sparrows were not absolutely new, but still they were a new player. And Cersei even failed to realize that it was the same mob that had thrown shit at her darling Joffrey in S2: all she saw was that at that particular moment they were enemies of her enemies and was dumb enough to give them weapons. Shame! Shame! Shame!

    Same with the Franken-Mountain of Qyburn by extension. I mean, who is this Qyburn? A total stranger. He healed Jaime – yes, but he used to hang with the Starks and was presumably tortured by the Mountain. Is there a possibility that he has his own independent agenda? Sure, but Cersei is quick to trust this total stranger dismissing and finally killing the loyal Pycell. And what she asks, when this crazy scientist tells her, that the Mountain will be changed? She doesn’t ask “How?” – all she asks is whether he will be weaker. So, that’s her way of thinking: she is so concentrated on the immediate gains, that she is blind to everything else, even potential threats to herself.

    So, that’s why I say, that when it comes to the WW, she won’t bother whether they are back or just emerged or whether they are ice zombies or aliens. She will only see that something distract her enemies, who will be having her in a pincer by that moment, and be very hapy with that. Even being in disbelief, she will be happy that the younger and more beautiful queen and Ned Stark’s bastard (not to mention her own hated little brother) have found themselves someone else to focus on giving her a chance to stabb them in the back. No way, she will miss such a golden chance only because the enemy of her enemies is a bit unconventional.

    As for the northerners, people want victories, especially when their situation is dire. Sitting and counting supplies is not that fun, contrary to hanging with some palls under the right leadership or beating someone you don’t like for a good cause. They took Jon’s victory against Ramsay as a compensation for all their losses, and now they want more and they want to be part of it. You could see that in thier eyes.

    I can see, why you argue: you think that the plot will evolve around the problem of general disbelief and Jon will play Cassandra. It may be the case in the books, but the show has shown us too much of the WW, especially at Hardhome. On such background, any caracter who will be doubting the threat will simply look like an idiot, even if that caracter has never been in Westeros and never heard any of the Old Nan’s tales (I mean Dany). Cersei is a vilain, so it would be OK to make her an idiote, but in this case the showrunners would be forced to take her out, and they don’t want that, because that would shorten and simplify the story. So, the only solution is to make Cersei the fifth column of the Nigh King threatening to backstab Jon and Dany literately or figuratively. That would produce her final conflict with Jaime and other dramas within the realms of men, saving the final act of GoT from being a simple battle between the good and the evil. At least, that’s how I understand, why Cersei wasn’t killed at the end of S6.

    Anyway it’s always a pleasure to spend a Sunday evening discussing GoT with you.

  512. Inga,

    That’s nice of you thanks ..I agree with most of you said in there.

    talvikorppi,

    Maybe I too just said poor jon he is so miserable and how modest he is for not having a throne but only a bench and chair and praised him for not having a dias or elevated seat but have a equal seating with others ( all from nothing ) and how it shows how much he is different from other two and how noble he is for that .. i wont be having such a hard time..

    I don’t whine about show changes I too understand that they are unavoidable ..but if there is inconsistencies I can’t help but point out ..and at this point I feel there is no point trying to have deeper discussions and decipher meaning behind it as they have proven that they only care about getting to one plot point to another and reaching the ending and doesnt care about inconsistencies ..I just view show now as an entertainment and means to know the ending of this story ..Saying this doesn’t make me a book purist or show hater ( I have criticized books and GRRM many times ) but that’s only the hard truth..

    I don’t see its show or books ..all I see is the story of Asoiaf and characters that I know for 10 years ..I think its inevitable bringing up the books not because they are books but they have much more history and back story than show does and bringing them up is necessary in these debates because without those you can’t make a point unless you just accept and join whatever that said by Jon snow fans ..

  513. Flayed Potatoes,

    What kind of leak are we talking about? Lads from reddit or someone else? It as clearly stated Jon is legitimate and named Aegon. Hard to say what Lyanna whispered to Ned but there is a reason why they brought this up. Many things in the leaks will anger many fans Jon being legitimate, Aegon which already has been take by first son of Rhaegar or him kneeling for no reason.

    dragonbringer,

    Daenerys managed to get into ruling but she’s a conqueror above all. More so than Jon because if Jon in the show is what King should be like, Westeros is screwed. Show version of Jon is far from quick thinking, smart guy with a knowledge of politics ot certain extent. Jon on the show is just a swordsman … who is too dumb or too honorable. I love Jon but this guy is not book Jon for better or worse. I like certain changes but dislike others … such his resurrection but could go on.

    Arya being some kind of killer machine, Dany barely showing any emotion. All characters are missing something but yet I like them. Mayb something to do with actors or simpyl I love them for who they are. They’re missing some beats to their core, but this is not so much as a hate, but rather dissapointment … but still love the show for what it is.

  514. Geralt of Rivia,

    Well, show!Jon is at least a swordsman. When my country and region had it’s “war for dawn” back in 1988-1991, we were led by a bunch of electricians, musicians, and bleeding poets. And we WON.
    On a serious note, I think that commanding a country at war and running it in the times of peace requires different qualities and different perosnalities. Very fiew can be equally good both at fighting and counting coppers or promoting an efficiant flow of the sewage system. Tyrion might be written as such universal genius, however, both Jon and Danny are much better at commanding, than he will ever be. And now Westeros needs a commander with the ambition to win the war, not a mere copper-counter or sewage manager. BTW, the show has made a point that Jon is aware of the sewage problem – the first thing he did as the Lord Commander was ordering to dig a new latrine pit. So, if he survives the war, he still has a chance to become a good peace-time ruler. If you don’t see the hints, you haven’t been paying attention.

  515. Inga: the first thing he did as the Lord Commander was ordering to dig a new latrine pit.

    Inga,

    It seems like a good job for a ginger 😉

  516. Geralt of Rivia,

    Nice seeing you here! You’ve been MIA. Hope all is well.

    (leak)

    Yes I’m talking about lads’ leaks. I’ve noticed that while R+L=J is a super popular theory, a lot of people who endorse it don’t think he’s legitimate. I’ve seen in online discussions that for every person who says he’s legitimate at least 3 people jump in and say he isn’t, so I assume many will be pissed off lol. The Aegon part will also upset a lot of people too. It’s going to be hilarious if that part of the leaks turns out to be true. #TeamSchadenfreude

  517. Regarding Aegon, I do think he’s a fake in the books and unlikely to survive through Winds, I feel he will be a distraction for Cersei and maybe Dany. As for that name appearing in the show I’m not convinced at all to be honest.

  518. Flayed Potatoes,
    Jon Snowed,

    If Jon really turns to be Aegon, I bet it will be linked to the PTWP prophesy. I have been looking for historical precedents, since I’ve red about the leak, and it looks like such precedents were the result of some oath given by the parents – usually to some saint. [/spoilers]

  521. Geralt of Rivia: Jon on the show is just a swordsman … who is too dumb or too honorable. I love Jon but this guy is not book Jon for better or worse.

    I’m sorry, but that’s nonsense. Show!Jon has shown himself to be just as astute and just as blind as Book!Jon. Remember, it’s Book!Jon’s “dumb” or “honorable” actions regarding the Wildlings that gets him killed there, too: and there he was getting even more warnings that he was in trouble. Bowen Marsh and the other other “Nationalists” balk and complain about everything Jon proposes concerning the Wildlings, and Marsh flat out tells Jon that he’s committing treason by letting the Wildlings through. Jon never fully appreciates just how angry they are about it.

    But the other surprisingly dumb thing that Book!Jon does that Show!Jon does not is dismiss Melisandre’s warnings. Book!Mel predicts a number things that come to pass: only, because they do not come to pass exactly as Jon interprets them initially, he decides that it’s all bogus. However: every vision actually came to pass: there is no way that somebody could just guess those things out of the blue. Jon spends too much time focusing on the imperfect to notice just how good Mel is.

    Geralt of Rivia: I like certain changes but dislike others … such his resurrection but could go on.

    That is not a “change”: in case you haven’t noticed, GRRM has not published Winds of Winter. And if you think that it’s going to be much different in the book, then you are going to be mistaken! GRRM fires big guns only after hanging them: and R’hllor is the only gun in town when it comes to reviving the dead or healing such deadly injuries.

  522. Inga: If Jon really turns to be Aegon, I bet it will be linked to the PTWP prophesy.

    Jon is going to be linked to that either way.

  523. Wimsey,

    I should have know Wimsey would react.

    Change in resurrection. Weiss and Benioff went on to say, George was not so pleased with It. Since Jon is a warg in the books, his spirit is inside of Ghost. That is a huge change but I understand it. Still his resurrection felt undrwhelming to many. i am not alone in this opinion, Where were any scene about his resurrection? Small scene with Melisandre before the battle.

    I never said bookJon was a perfect character or what not. His tactical knowledge on the battlefield, knack on politics and what we heard about next season just proves it. Ramsay owned him psychologically and in terms of strategic knowledge. That is not bookJon. Same as bookJon went on to do small and boring stuff about the Wall, show ignored for a timewise issues. Understandable but it gives you insight into what King is dealing with on day to day basis.

    ShowJon is good in only thing and that is being a swordsman but I still love him. Of course, he lacked in the sense of explaining it to Night’s Watch brothers … but hell many of them were at Hardhome and saw White Walkers. Book is different and more intricate because White Walkers haven’t been seen by them on such a scale, it was mainly about leting them go without actually going to Hardhome first hand witnessing them. ShowJon and bookJon are two different character and you with your vat knowledge should know it.

    I like them both for who they are with a hint of dissapointment.

  524. Flayed Potatoes,

    Relatively fine. Thanks for asking. 😉

    Oh this debate.

    Well, people will be bitching about it either way but the truth is Jon is a legitimate Targaryen. Some dislike the fact Jon could be more Targaryen than Stark, others won’t like it because he can surpass Dany in theory with his claim. Either way people are missing the point, if he ever becomes a king like I think he will, it will be due to his actions not so much with heritage. He will always be a Stark in his heart but if to become a king … Targaryen name to it. I mean you know it.

  525. I wouldn’t state Jon is a different character between the show and the books. He’s portrayed as a little more mature in the show but it’s the same character with a few differences in experience i.e. he goes to Hardholme. Also remember the Nights Watch were at the fist of the first men so so the White Walkers there and were slaughtered so it’s not correct to say they haven’t seen them.

  526. By the way I think his resurrection in Winds will be slightly different but definitely Mel will be involved and it’s done so he can leave the Nights watch and become King in the North (probably via Rob’s will). I just don’t see the show and books diverging on the patch just the details. The only debate in my mind is whether Jon is involved in the battle for Winterfell, I would say this is likely for him to be KitN, it would be a huge anti-climax if not.

  527. talvikorppi:

    Oh, the weight of the world on his shoulders. No wonder Jon Snow looks miserable almost all the time.

    For a second there I read that as “the wight of the world,” which, come to think of it, would be just as meaningful. /goes back to late-morning coffee

  528. Yeah, most people seem to assume it’s the Night King’s eye. Definitely looks like a giant to me

  529. Ten Bears,

    As Wimsey noted, Tyrion discounted Jon in S1 but did not discount Mormont later on. If he hears yet another account of wights and white walkers, it is highly unlikely he will blow it off—especially when he remembers Alliser Thorne’s (futile) journey south.

    Inga:

    I mean, who is this Qyburn? A total stranger. He healed Jaime – yes, but he used to hang with the Starks and was presumably tortured by the Mountain.

    There is no evidence that Qyburn ever “used to hang with the Starks.” Qyburn was one of a large group of prisoners from both the North and the Riverlands; after all, the Tullys and, ahem, Freys were also allied with the Starks, and these three houses alone might have had dozens of minor houses pledged to them. In addition, any traveling maester associated with the Starks would most likely have required approval from Maester Luwin, a deeply honorable, trustworthy, and wise man who never would have allowed Qyburn anywhere near a Stark.

    Inga,

    You mean, both Tyrion and Jon really know how to get shit done?

    Pardon my language. I just couldn’t help myself! 😉

  531. didi,
    I said the same thing about the music as well. But now after a week, the song has been stuck on me and I’ve been humming it ever since. “Oh sit down” lol

  532. HelloThere,

    I didn’t like the music as well, but now it has grown on me and it feels suiting to what to expect this season imo.

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