It hasn’t even been a week since season 5 ended, and there is already more casting news about Game of Thrones season 6.
A reliable source has informed us of a series of castings underway at the moment. Most interestingly, the showrunners are specifically looking for either Irish or Northern Irish residents to fill these roles.
All we have are character names and titles at the moment, but we will update this information as soon as we can. Some of these names give an inkling as to where the characters will be based, and which members of the main cast they may be interacting with. The names/titles are as follows:
UPDATE: We now have the role descriptions, with a couple character additions!
Qhogo and Akrat: They’re seeking mixed ethnicity or other non-white actors for the roles. The successful young warriors need to be tall, confident, with swagger and linguistic bravado. It’s noted that the actors will have to speak in a fictional language. I think it’s safe to say that these are Dothraki.
Bower: He is a powerless servant, numb to the horror he serves. He’s filming around one of the days that below “outlaw band” members are so he may be connected to them. He is required to have a Northern or Midland English accent and appears in one episode.
Lachlan: He’s the big leader of a group of renegades who have turned on the land that they swore to protect. They’re now extorting the poor and vulnerable. He appears in 2 episodes in season 6.
Flynn: He’s part of an outlaw band. The group is using religion to justify terrorizing and extorting what they need from the people of the countryside. He appears in 2 episodes in season 6. He appears to be part of Lachlan’s band.
Japeth: Another member of the outlaw band is this lieutenant. He’s a “rough-and-ready type” with a strong physical presence, also appearing two episodes.
Legendary Fighter: A man in his thirties or forties who is a great swordsman and a paragon of knighthood. He carries a hugely famous sword on his back. The show is seeking a very impressive swordsman for the role- the best in Europe, for a week of filming fight scenes for a season 6 role. His ethnicity/race isn’t specified, unlike many other roles.
Lord of Noble Northern House: (Casting age anywhere between 25-50) The lord is a savage warrior, and he rules a distinguished house in the very far North, and the role is said to be an impactful one. He’s described as a massive bear of a man with a beard and temper to match, and hatred that run deep, and he can be violent. The show’s looking for someone with a powerful physique who can tower over other cast members, a Northern English Accent and specifies he has to be at least 180 cm tall. The role will be on 2 episodes.
Lord of Northern Stronghold: The show’s looking for an actor in his late thirties or forties to play another lord, one that’s ruthless and calculating. The frightening lord rules a vassal household with a castle stronghold. He’ll be in 3 episodes this year, with 20 days of filming this summer and fall.
Hunter: He’s a rough army officer on the hunt appearing in an action scene with main cast, in one episode.
Submissive Maester: The show’s casting a maester in his twenties- a timid young maester. He’s decent but has trouble standing up to others. He appears in one episode in season 6.
Green Recruit: A young man with one line and one day of filming in August.
Sympathiser 1, 2 & 3: These are rough military types, with a day of filming.
Housemaid: She’s the motherly nanny (with a tight whip) to a large household.
The show wants an actress between the ages of 45-65 with a Northern English Accent. She’ll be in 2 episodes.
Father: He’s tough and old, an alpha male patriarch. The show is looking for a man with a Northern English Accent. He appears in one episode and has 2 lines.
Cian: The specificity of requesting that the actors be residents of Ireland/Northern Ireland would seem to indicate that the majority of their filming may be in Northern Ireland. It also looks as though the North may be getting a strong focus next season, if these parts are anything to go by. In particular, the “Lord of Noble Northern House” sounds like a certain Umber might be being cast. And… I think it’s a pretty safe guess we’ll be seeing Arthur Dayne, too. What do you think?
Hodor!
Lord of Northern Stronghold…crossing fingers.
I think the two northern lords might be the lords Manderly and Glover, just a feeling.
I hope:
Is there still hope for Frey Pie? Probably not. Bolton Pie? I just want pie! Give me pie.
Hopefully submissive maester means Theomore and this will be confirmed..
“Legendary Fighter”
Wonder who that can be. Maybe a flashback of Ser Arthur Dayne?
Yes good suggestion, I was thinking about a oldtown measter.
Karhold is the only “hold” that comes to mind.
Ahh I desperately want to know if they’re gonna cast the manderly daughters!
Faceless Frey,
Seriously, we need pie.
What about deepwood motte.. it’s not exactly a castle either, it’s a motte and bailey.
Turncloak,
Maybe Griff?
I wish Legendary Fighter would equal Strong Belwas. Probably not, because it’s probably too late to add such an inconsequential character, but a man can dream.
Already been said he won’t be in.
I want to see Marwyn the Mage, now there’s a character.
and Gatehouse Ami of course
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Two Northern Lords? Could either of them be an Umber? Maybe the Greatjon gets recast?#ReturnoftheRickon #ReturnoftheOsha?
Or/And is this #WeNeedHowlandReed?
Would be thrilled with Frey Pies too though.
Bergey,
Of all the legendary fighters in ASOIAF you hope for Strong Belwas? :/. Man I would be really disappointed.
Coldhands?
Lord of Noble Northern House
Howland Reed?
YES!!!!!
I wish d and d would stick to their guns and cut some of this fat.
It would have been so easy just to have Sansa work with these lords last season but nooooooo woman locked in room abused so that awful male character can be “redeemed” is just so much more interesting that woman semi successfully navigating complex northern politics and saving her own damn self. #Stillbitter, #neveroverit.
Dany,
Was thinking that too.. And green recruit? Green men?
What about Randal Tarley?
He has a good part in DoD
Sympathizer 1&2- could we be seeing Kingsmoot? One of them could be supporting Yara and the other Euron.
McQ-Ball,
Already been announced in a previous post
All the Tarly family is being cast
Why are they looking specifically for Irish actors to fill Qhogo and Akrat? Those sound Essosi characters.
Could some of these northern houses be where Rickon was sent with Osha? It’s time for him to reenter the story as a surviving Stark son.
I don’t remember any legendary fighter who is still alive in westeros, so maybe a flashback? Tower of joy?
For me griff dont fit in the legendary fighter, and with no aegon i really think he’s cut.
Barristan!
Oh wait 🙁 ….
Turncloak,
That would rule!
Queenofthrones,
They would have had to structure the entirety of season 5 differently if they incorporated the Northern Lords into Sansa’s storyline. The decision for the Sansa/Jeyne Pool swap was made back in season 2.
It did regress Sansa as a character but it managed to capture the dread of the books and left Theon’s character arc more or less in tact with the book version.
I believe D&D have stated that Theon is their favorite character so it makes sense why they did it.
Hopefully Sansa improves in season 6
I don’t know who this ‘legendary fighter’ might be… Tower of Joy, maybe?
Question for the ages: what is the difference between being the lord of a Northern “stronghold” and lord of a Northern “noble house”?
It’s well past time that the North consisted of more than Starks and the lords who betray the Starks, though, so hopefully this is a sign that Sansa might actually do something this season.
The “submissive maester” will be seen when Sam visits the BDSM section of the Oldtown brothel.
Two different characters named like that to confuse us.
This is like the walking dead.. they got sick of the fanbase constantly hunting for casting calls so they give them different names.
Could they go a bit meta and bring in House Forrester?
Sean C.,
I believe the Lord of a Northern Stronghold is actually a Castellan while the Lord of a Northern house is actually a Lord
I think they could.
Okay, I’ve updated the post with the role descriptions and there are couple more small roles added to the batch!
Sansa successfully doing it right the first time after being so clueless and unthinking in the first four seasons would have been highly unrealistic. To do this in a way that the audience could accept, she has to be shown to try, fail and learn. Now, ideally, she would have started this in the 3rd or 4th season – after all, we’ve been watching other protagonists try, fail and learn since season 1 or 2 – but I think that a “learning” Sansa in Kings Landing would have introduced too many complications to a basic plot constructed with an unlearning Sansa in mind.
What this does suggest is that perhaps it will be Sansa pursuing Rickon and Bran. The Northern Lords likely (and also quite probably) are the ones holding Rickon. (Is it the Umbers on the show?) I suppose that it could be Davos doing this: but Davos is a lesser lead.
I must admit, Stannis’ death has falsified some of my predictions: I htought that we would have a situation where Rickon ends up in one camp (Stannis’), Sansa another, and Arya in a third. I suppose that this still could happen, but I am not sure how.
No, that would just be a chorus probably. At any rate, the Kingsmoot is unnecessary: that is only useful if you are making Asha/Yara a lead character (as the book attempted to do) so that you can see her try to kill the princess and let the queen be born, and then fail miserably. However, that was last year’s story, and Cersei made that contribution all by herself. Euron can just turn up: bad-ass pirate with big fleet is all the explanation that is necessary!
? He has one or two lines in the epilogue promising to kill a pretender, if I recall. Otherwise, has he even been in the books? (Other than being mentioned by Sam, of course.)
Umbers? Skagosi?
Maybe it means that the lord of a noble house won’t be in his stronghold (e.g. Manderly in Winterfell), while the lord of a strongold is at home (Manderly in White Harbor).
Sean C.,
I think the distinction is that the first one is more of a “military” type ( think Greatjon/ Randyl) and the latter is a “lordly” type ( think Mace/ Doran).
Hopefully the Lord of the noble house is Manderly and we will get the pies that were promised.
This casting news does not bode well for Clive Mantle’s return 🙁
HOLY SHIT I CALLED IT! Arthur Dayne FUCKING CONFIRMED!
Ok seems Ser Arthur Dayne has just been confirmed, Woah
Seems to be that Arthur Dayne and an Umber are confirmed! Note how they don’t seem to be looking for an actor for Arthur Dayne, but the “best swordsman in Europe”. ToJ!!!
Very, very exciting. The BEST sword fighter in Europe? Wow! 😀
Submissive Maester sounds like Kerwin to me.
Okay, does this mean that Sean Bean will return as well for the ToJ scene?
Holy shit.
Who’s the band of Outlaws? BWB perhaps? The religion bit is what makes me think of the BWB.
The outlaws sound like the corrupted BWB to me.
I had a brief squee when I thought it might be
.
Turncloak,
D&D stated that SANSA ” is a character that we care about almost more than anyone else” and the biggest proof is her arc this season
Just because you or some other people misunderstood this particular storyline doesn’t mean it was misstep or regress (and they sacrificed her agency for redeeming theon!? my goodness pure nonsense) she’s my top favorite character by far ( and i’m a boy) and i can’t be enough thankful for her great storyline this year and i’m sure they’ll deliver a BRILLIANT arc for sansa next season
Could the young maester be the one on Victorian’s ship who gets thrown overboard? He was timid if I recall.
This huge guy could be an Umber.
ARTHUR
FUCKING
DAYNE
O
M
G
O
M
G
What did Sansa try or learn in Winterfell, pray tell? She never once attempted any sort of politicking or manipulation.
Moreover, Sansa being in Winterfell in the first place was every bit as unrealistic, if not more so. The writers do not care about realism.
Anyway, back to the casting announcements. I was going to say that the first Northern lord sounded like recast Greatjon, but the casting age of 25-50 says otherwise.
And now we come full circle… first the reports about Euron being cast, now it looks like some BWB guys. I’m thinking perhaps Brienne heads south into the Riverlands – could an undead leader be far behind? Just saying.
A Karstark maybe?
Sue the Fury,
They could be the Bloody Mummers, since they had a Septon with them.
This is even more confirmation we will see Brienne back in the Riverlands after Septon Meribald casting.
Band of outlaws? Definitely BWB!
“The lord is a savage warrior, and he rules a distinguished house in the very far North”
Very far north… unlikely but I think they may merge White Harbor and Skagos.
Cameryn,
No,it couldn’t,enough with that stupid shit,i bet even in the last episode people are still hoping for that horrible character .
If you want a show whose primary focus is strong female characters turning into stronger female characters, write it yourself. Pitch it. Make it. And we can all bask in its glory.
Queenofthrones,
I agree, really should have been Jeyne Poole being abused so we could have enjoyed it more…smh
Sue the Fury,
That’s what I thought, but then… Do they do much terrorisin’ of the populace in the books? Freys, Outlaws, and Warrior Maidens with fancy swords feel their ire, but I cannot recall them hurting the commoners. Mayhaps just going in a slightly different direction with them.
Alternatively, could be a rowdy group of Sparrows/Poor brothers… Or some Queen’s men that escaped from the Battle/Slaughter of Winterfell, and the description is just slightly off, to throw us off (“turned on the land that they swore to protect” wouldn’t fit Queen’s men).
It certainly sounds like the Brotherhood, though maybe that’s because it’s what we want it to be.
Urgh, they’re not recasting the GreatJon, are they? What is wrong with Clive Mantle, did the producers have some sort of fight with the guy? Avoidable recasts (if that’s the case) like this bug me >_<
First time i read the “legendary fighter with a famous sword” thats gotta be the sword of the morning! Zomg! Dawn = lightbringer?
Also, one of the northern lords must be an Umber. Last Hearth was namedropped a couple of seasons ago as a possible refuge for Rickon. So,either the greatjon is recast or we get Mors or Whoresbane. They need a giant of a man, House Umber has a giant in its sigil.
I have a feeling that Stannis’s arc might have been cut short on purpose, because they might give some of that arc together with the Northern alliance against the Boltons to Jon next season. (That is if Jon actually comes back).
It would be a bit frustrating if they give someone like Littlefinger a Northern alliance.
I hope the Legendary Fighter is Ser Arthur Dane. Howland Reed would also be interesting to cast. Or basically any Northern Lords.
KrakenDaughter,
The description doesn’t sound anything like the Bloody Mummers.
I find it very difficult to see how Brienne goes back to the Riverlands at this point, given where she currently is.
I honestly expected never to see the Tower of Joy on the show –at least, the fight part — because while it’s cool, it’s incidental to the actual important point there, Ned finding Lyanna and Jon.
Brotherhood without Banners back in town
So the story is returning to the Riverlands? Maybe the whole down with the Freys plot that those Westeros people think will be in tWoW will be in season 6
also Rickon and Sansa BETTER get together in s6
HOLY MOTHER!
D&D I think I love you!!!!!!!!!!!!
All the cookies on this. ALL. I’m borrowing my neighbors cupcakes too to put it on this idea.
EDIT for checklist:
– paragon of knighthood – CHECK
– famous sword – CHECK
– legendary knight – CHECK
Mormont,
Yes. So they can kill one more Stark again.
The first Northern Lord screams Greatjon IMO. Rickon returns?
jentario,
No, please. Or yes, but just for one scene, where he gets killed.
Would Jons possible arc fit in with all these castings??
Legendary Fighter: A man in his thirties or forties who is a great swordsman and a paragon of knighthood. He carries a famous sword. The show is seeking a very impressive swordsman for the role- the best in Europe, for a week of filming fight scenes for a season 6 role. His ethnicity/race isn’t specified, unlike many other roles.
Just as an outside bet: Ser Harras Harlaw ( with Nightfall) accompanying Euron.
Just puttin’ it out there…
Will we see a casting for a young Ned soon? Or maybe for a young beautiful woman with grey eyes and long face?
And rereading this it looks like Cian is on the money and so was Hodor’s Bastard with many other who said Northern Lords are IMPORTANT and should/would be included in the show as a group!
Note to Wimsey,: Northern Lords are important. And they have a voice! :p #LongMemory #BadManners
Mors Umber and Cregan Karstark?
The first Northern Lord could also be Great Jon’s son, rather than a recast Great Jon.
This is a good day…casting for Northern lords, corrupted men of the BWB, and a legendary fighter with a famous sword (Arthru Dayne, please).
This makes up for the Dorne disappointment.
Wimsey get rekt :p Lol
Sean C.,
Who else could it be? I don’t see Jaime going on a journey through the land, meeting traveling septons and lowlife bandits, that screams Brienne AFFC chapters. I can’t think of any other characters who isn’t already busy doing soemthing else.
I don’t understand why is everyone hopping on the Arthur Dayne hype train, when the obvious answer is Darkstar.
This definitely sounds like an Umber to me.
If at 180 cm tall he can tower over the rest of the cast though, are they all tiny? Because that’s not very big.
Green recruit? Military sympathisers? What fucking army could that be?
jentario,
The age is off for it to be the Greatjon. I would hope they word at least attempt to keep him in the same range as Clive Mantle; though with the two Daarios, perhaps not.
The Smalljon or some other Umber son would be better.
KrakenDaughter,
I’d say Jaime is far more likely, given his not likely remaining in KL. Brienne has found Sansa in the show; it makes no sense for her to leave the North now.
TheRedWoman,
Yeah, Sophie is 175 cm without heels, so if he had scenes with her he wouldn’t look that impressive.
Chriss,
Or D&D can stick to the fucking books and you can stop being an asshat.
Turncloak,
Thought of that, could be the Tower of Joy, The Sword of the Morning is the best fighter in ASOIAF
TheRedWoman,
I´m 1,79 m. I tower over my dog.
Well, the alliance would be with Sansa, even if LF negotiated it. She’s a Stark and I think more likely than Jon. A resurrected Jon storyline would probably have other priorities. I agree about cutting the Stannis storyline short.
Dunno why, but my “request timed out”.. -.-
What I wrote was that the casting calls don’t fit Manderly at all. Nor does it fit stuff like Glover. Manderly just doesn’t fit: a massive bear of a man with a beard and temper to match, and hatred that run deep, and he can be violent.” or as a “ruthless, calculating, and frightening lord”. This just screams Mors/Hother Umber – known to be incredibly hotheaded. While the second screams “Lord” Arnolf Karstark – known to be extremely calculating and ruthless. In my head, this basically confirmed Rickon’s return.
As for Flynn, Lachlan, Japeth and Bower. A group of outlaws that uses religion to justify their horrors, turning on the land they swore to protect. This screams at me as a twisted remnant of the BwB.
Arya Havin’ a Larf?,
Ironborn= pirates. They’re not known for their swordsmanship.
Wimsey,
You’re fantastic you know that right?
It’s always such a joy reading your thoughts and comments.
By the way i’m not usually comment but i’m a long time reader ( and english isn’t my first language so forgive me for my mistakes)
Fuck me arthur dayne. Jon’s father!
Sue the Fury,
Could be. But why would they be casting a leader when we already have Berric and Thoros?
My guess is that this will be a group that pops up as a result of the Sparrow movement and supports the Faith.
I think Cersei will banish Jaime from King’s Landing and that he’ll end up meeting Meribald and the outlaws.
“Legendary Warrior” screams a flashback due to his filming for a week. And the thing about the sword makes this seem like Arthur Dayne…. BUT it could just as easily be Azor Ahai or something like that. In any case, Bran related.
Queenofthrones,
More or less intact? They butchered his character as well as Sansa. He became a tertiary character in his storyline, neglected, misinterpreted and underused. Myranda had more lines than him, Olly had more screen time. His book arc is inexistent and even the “redemption”is rushed and unmotivated.
I don’t believe that he is their favorite, probably they love Alfie’s interpretation but they don’t get Theon’s (and Sansa’s) complexity at all.
KrakenDaughter,
To me they sound like mors umber and hother umber , wyman manderly is fat and slow not a savage warrior a massive bear
My god tower of joy just think about it i’m excited BEYOND measure
I’m calling it right now (God I hate that phrase) – Rory McCann will be back in Season 6. 🙂
Seeing ‘legendary fighter’ with a famous sword, my first thoughts were Lyn Corbray. He carries Lady Forlorn, after all. Then I remembered Ser Arthur Dayne, and god I wish that is the right guess. It has to be him. No character in the series suits the casting description as good as the Sword of the Morning. His ethnicity is not specified because he is a Dornishman.
Seems we will get a lot of flashbacks. Taking into account the first casting list for young northern boys, I think the Lord of Noble Northern House can be Ned’s dad, Rickard Stark. Although its more likely some Umber or Glover if we consider there are only 2 seasons left to cover two books.
So are they going to have the BWB have a new randow leader or something?
I was thinking Smalljon rather than a Greatjon recast. They never had him in the show, so the fact that he perished at the RW in the books could be irrelevant I guess. If it is Smalljon, I’d love to see Clive Standen from Vikings. He just screams Smalljon Umber to me.
Northern Lords!!! Finally.Interesting bit about outlaw band.Who could it be?
Tbh personally,I don’t expect to see Tower of Joy flashback in the show(nor do I think show need it).Maybe it will be somenthing else.It’s another hype train and people will be dissapointed.
We want to see whole House Dayne including Ashara and Edric!Please D&D.
The Loon,
Hey I hated the book plot with Jeyne almost as much. I don’t care much for theon, but he’s clearly D and Ds fave (any comments they make about sansa being more important than Theon to clearly damage control).
I’ll say it again. If they had been creative there were plenty of ways to put Sansa in Jeynes General predicament (that is, in winterfell and married/affianced to a monster) without her spending the entire season raped abused and locked in a room. they even set up some possibilities like her working behind the scenes to undermine the Boltons. But, they clearly wanted to film “that great scene with Ramsey” (ew), thus proving Ramsey and theon are more important to them than Sansa.
I honestly think D and d are too busy to adapt creatively and actually be true to characters. See also, Dorne. That’s why I think they need to stop trying to do specific book plots and instead just follow the general outline they have from George – they do much better when they let the characters act organically in new situations. Like, I thought some of the northern stuff (first 4 eps) was very promising. Lots of great action with LF and sansa. After awhile they seem to have thrown their hands up and say “eh this is too hard just do the book plot”.
That’s why I want them to cut more – they are better without being tied to the books, it makes them lazy.
Esgred,
Is this a joke…. that was literally Theon’s arc in the book but without Mance there and the Bolton’s allies (Freys, Dustin, Karstark) not being on screen. And how’s he gonna have lots of lines when he’s a wimpering shell of a man… smh
I really do not see any reasonable way to include a
-flashback …
Im wondering how they could frame a TOJ flashback without Ned. Either Howland gets introduced or Bran sees it through the weir network?
Giulio,
They could make Manderlydo the Yezzan-diet and be a thinner/ better-looking version of himself.
Oh snap, the Brotherhood without Banners is coming back? They just keep tormenting LSH fans, don’t they? I hope Beric and/or Thoros return at least.
And the Lord of Northern Noble House is definitely an Umber, perhaps Smalljon given the age range. I guess that means Rickon is making a return as well. The North remembers!
Ser Arthur Dan,
I expect it will be Bran.
Why do people think the outlaw band are the BWB? This lot sound like a particularly nasty bunch, extorting the poor and vulnerable. Doesn’t sound like the BWB at all?
Queenofthrones,
Stick to the Books! Don’t Stick to the Books! STICK TO THE BOOKS! DON’T STICK TO THE BOOKS!
Any chance you guys can just fight it out and leave the rest of us alone?
There is nothing in books 4 and 5 that should be respected. Absolutely nothing. I’m growing sick of the revisionist crap about Dorne, which is just as useless in the books.
I’m growing sick of the “Sansa didn’t get raped in the books” because what happens to Jeyne Poole is worse and she doesn’t do anything to facilitate her own escape.
The books are never improving. I’m not convinced there will even BE more books, but there is absolutely no evidence to convince us Book 6 will be any better than Books 4 and 5.
Ross,
A band of outlaws who turned on the land they swore to protect and use religion to justify terrorizing and extorting people? Unless they’re making up some random new group that fits the description, it has to be the BWB.
Ross,
The same Brotherhood Without Banners that sold Gendry to a Red Priestess after they promised him a place amongst them. It sounds accurate for their show representation… assuming we have a similar situation to the books, where there’s no Beric to lead them, and Thoros is spent, and all used up. They’re not particularly nice when we meet them in the later books.
Cock Merchant still not filled.
Think about it.
BWB, or some new club. Definitely sounds as the BWB.
Legendary fighter…
Carries a famous sword…
May be Randyll Tarly.
The BwB fell into disrepute in the books after Beric died to bring back you know who. The show version may have done the same but without you know who.
I think my book memory is a bit hazy. I remember them as a fundamentally ‘good’ bunch whose morality goes a bit questionable with their involvement with LS (I remember Thoros starting to doubt what they are doing for example). I don’t remember them turning on the poor and vulnerable. It’s been a while since I read them though.
Great news! less than a week from season 5 and already excited for season 6
its darkstar!
I am of the night!
Seeing a lot of Arthur Dayne… but my first thought was Lyn Corbray. Baelish needs some muscle and a right-hand man. He told Cersei he would handle the Northern issue this season.
Ross,
Oh God :/ Not another season of LSH false hype.
Mormont,
You have to reread the books, at that point in the books Theon is resurfacing and he had a lot of interactions with Lady Dustin, the washerwomen, Jeyne etc.
He has the beautiful confession in front of the heart tree. In the books it is clear he is slowly becoming Theon again, in the tv series is a whimpering shell of a man in all the episodes he appears because he has not progressed at all from the Reek status (and Sansa didn’t help a lot in this, even before the wedding she keeps yelling insults at him while Jeyne triggers his redemption calling him by his name, considering him a man, a very important point for his identity arc)
Winterfell arc in the tv series has been deprived of everything except the shock of the rape and the jump from the battlements.
And guys, the Winterfell arc is about Theon. He is the pov, the main character of that storyline. Jeyne is important ( I think she saved him as well he saved her) but the main focus is him. I didn’t like that Sansa was there from the start, I hated what they have done with her character in this season, but it is stupid complaining about Theon when he became the most unimportant character in HIS story.
Mr Fixit,
Sean Bean shouldn’t be playing a 20 year old.
joffreysbleedingeyes,
They start the season with it confirming Jon is a Targ and then cut to his body being burned & resurrecting as Azor Ahai.
KrakenDaughter,
Hope springs eternal. But who knows? Maybe they changed their minds about including her (although it sounds like this Lachlan is in charge now going by the description).
Is Randyll Tarly legendary? Besides I think they already announced his character.
joffreysbleedingeyes,
In the beginning of premiere, the show introduce the Tower of Joy flashbacks, revealing that Jon Snow is Jon Targaryen. And in the end of episode, the Watchers burn him corpse, with Melisandre watching this, and BOOM Jon Targaryen alive.
I know right. Deluded fool though I am, I do honestly think it will happen now.
Congratulations for getting yet another scoop. Too busy this week to really discuss things, but this certainly sounds very exciting!!
The maester might be the one having a hard time on Victarion’s ship … Kerwin, is it?
Sounds like the Brotherhood is back (and not better than ever.)
where can one apply for the possible roles?
Esgred,
I knew somebody would come out with that bullshit. Of course Reek has fewer lines than tertiary characters. He’s not a talkative person, is he? Have you read his chapters? If anything, they’ve been unfaithful by giving him so many out-loud lines. Hey may have fewer lines than Myranda, but he has more screen-time, many more interactions, and much more development.
George,
Be a professional actor with an agent.
Ser Arthur Dan,
Strangely enough there’s supposedly a scene with Ned/ Sean Bean that never made it in any of the seasons, that no one knows what it is. I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch to make
hexonx,
João Victor,
And who has the flashback?
Bran? How likely is a weirwood at that specific location?
Howland Reed, whom we do not know?
Meera telling to Bran what Howland told her?
Howland Reed telling Rickon who magically resurfaces at the Neck?
I think that is all rather unlikely, or maybe just rather ugly from a story-telling point of view.
But we will see. Anyway, I, personally, do not really expect this specific flashback
To be fair, even without LSH, the Brotherhood story should be followed-up, considering how it was dropped unceremoniously after the Red Wedding. They did make a point of noting how the Blackfish was still out there, for example.
You get either Jon coming back, or LSH. Not getting both. That’s too much resurrection for a general audience.
UMBERS!!!! YES!!
So bringing back the BwB might mean that Mel is looking for Thoros to resurrect Jon?
So, that definitely sounds like the brotherhood, except that turning on the smallfolk seems weird, unless this is a TWOW development we are not aware of, which is possible. The nail in the coffin, in my opinion, is that they are casting their leader, which makes no sense, as the brotherhood’s leader would be either Beric, Thoros or LSH. So… not the brotherhood, then?
The others… we can make guesses, but nothing for certain. The only obvious one seems time be Sir Arthur Dayne. Great swordman, a famous sword… there’s no other way about it, is there? We ARE getting a TOJ flashback after all, and complete with the fight, who would’ve thought. Well, I had hoped, but not expected. Is this gonna be the reveal of J=R+L?
Honestly, the off-season is, in a weird way, more exciting than the on-season itself.
I’d rather have the BwB being led by a renegade Blackfish into revenge on the Freys than she who must not be named.
Ha! I called it the week before the finale — the longer LSH fails to appear on the show, the stronger their faith becomes!
I think they need to add a scene after the credits roll on the final episode of the entire series where Michelle Fairley looks into the camera and says, “Boo!”
Uh, how about
Or, they just DO it. They didn’t “introduce” the Cersei flashback at the beginning of this season using any existing plot mechanism.
Chriss,
Sansa is the strongest female character in game of thrones and one of the strongest in general and story of fans not understand her is an old one
Well maybe it won´t be a flahback … maybe AD or whoever he is is alive.
D&D have changed a lot of things why not that too…
As for TOJ and all i wouldn˙t get my hopes up since the casting call is 9 people short for that fight.
No Hype remember how the whole “Benjen” thing ended up? It was a master t-rollin´ by D&D.
Daughter of Winter,
Um, no. Not even a little.
Exactly, even though it did cut to Cersei after, but the show is not forced to have a POV character like the books.
That’s not a sure thing.I would expect the other two members of the Kingsguard to be there too.No to mention certain L and other people like certain Reed.Maybe in the next few months and maybe I will believe that ToJ hype. 😀
“The show is seeking a very impressive swordsman for the role- the best in Europe.” Sounds exactly like a role for Axel Pettersson? LOL
I hope HBO and D&D plan out these flashback scenes well.
Only because in my fantasy after D&D are done with GoT we get another spinoff series, like a prequel, and if there are any actors playing characters in the GoT series, if those same characters end up in the prequel my hope would be that the same actors come back to play them.
Wow, that’s a messed up sentence but you know what I mean.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
They could easily just cast some extras for other fighters. The focus would be on Ned and Dayne anyway.
I’m curious to know who would play young Ned and Lyanna more than anything. Also, if they’re really going to spill the beans on
there’s not much reason to believe Jon is gone for good. It would be a pointless reveal otherwise.
Don’t get my hopes up!!
Everyone is talking about Arthur Dayne, but what if this legendary warrior is someone unexpected who’s going to champion the Sparrows against FrankenMountain and Cersei? It’s important to note that it says the guy will only shoot for a week. I doubt that would work for a longer term guy like Lyn Corbray.
I can’t help thinking that these storylines are not end game material yet, and we’re supposed to be up to the penultimate season! How are D&D going to speed this up?
I assumed that a “house” was actually a real castle and that a stronghold was anything that was fortified but not necessarily a castle.
Wimsey,
Actually, he does pop up on in other books, most notably in AFFC when he meets Brienne in Maidenpool and dispenses this “enlightened” bit of advice:
I’m not a big fan of Randyll…for a variety of reasons.
Of course I have, Theon is my favorite character and Winterfell arc in ADWD is the best storyline in the books imho. I know that most of his lines in the books are thoughts, but he has also some dialogues (with Lady Dustin, the washerwomen, Jeyne etc. I have to repeat it?=), and he could have done the same with Sansa
But in the tv series he says only “sorry” after insulted by Sansa and “I am Reek”. In his last chapter of ADWD, he calls himself Theon, because his real identity resurfaced again thanks to a lot of factors: he also asks the Old Golds to die as Theon and not as Reek. But the man that jumped with Sansa in the last episode is still Reek, there’s nothing in the series that justifies his change. They don’t bother at all to show his struggle to became again the man he was. I didn’t see any development, he is the same in every episode he appears, except the last 30 seconds when abruptly decides to kill Myranda and convinces Sansa to jump (when in the previous episode he said that it is impossible to escape from Ramsay)
Perhaps we have seen two different series if you have noticed all this screentime and character development.
Aisling,
An alliance with Sansa would also be a good idea, I just hope Littlefinger isn’t to involved, she could act as a regent for Rickon. It does make me wonder if Sansa and Theon will go up to the Wall. And if Jon would be resurrected or not, and how quick it would happen. It would be awesome if Sansa and Jon could work together, well any Stark alliance would be amazing. The reason why I thought Jon could take Winterfell is because of what Melisandre said to Stannis, the Botlons will fall and she will walk on the battlements of Winterfell. This obviously did not happen for Stannis, so it made me wonder if it might happen with Jon. It would also work as a more successful execution of the Pink Letter dilemma. If Jon is resurrected quickly enough then I would imagine that he would want to unite the North to be able to fight against the long night, or he might go to the Lands of Always Winter. But it could all work perfectly if he and Sansa works together, Sansa can do the politics and Jon could be the military arm of the North, and they could still send Davos to find Rickon.
Brienne and Podrick might meet up with Sansa and Theon after their escape from Winterfell, perhaps Brienne will tell Sansa that she met Arya along the way. Sansa could then perhaps send Brienne to look for Arya again, it would then make sense if Brienne ran across some outlaws.
But all of that is properly way to perfect and easy, for GoT, I guess that is more wishful thinking.
Geralt of Rivia,
LOL That’s funny actually! Expecting them to stick to the number of the fighters on each side, or even to who they are, when you don’t really expect them to stick to the book and include the scene.
Robb Snow,
That’s exactly why i don’t think it’s the brotherhood. Even without LSH, they introduced 3 memebers of the BWB in the show, i can’t imagine they couldn’t get any of those actors to reprise their roles in the biggest show on TV.
And even though the Brotherhood took a darker turn under the Stoneheart regime, it was about getting revenge not the” lowlife thuggery ” vibe i got from the desriptions.
I’ll go ahead and guess that they’re merging the BWB with the Bloody Mummers to steamline Brienne’s journey.
Evryone is so focused on the sword ….
Does this part seem like Lyn Corbray to anyone ? :
Sue the Fury,
Seems like a big change though from the Robin Hood-like BWB in S3. They got currupted alright, but into a revenge group, not bullies. Sounds more like Sparrows to me. The Faith is in power now and we’ll probably see some criminals take advantage of that, probably in the Riverlands. Something from The Winds of Winter perhaps, a dark parallel to BWB.
Esgred,
If you’re a Theon fan you should be happy that Stannis is dead since it’s looks likely that’s he’s getting sacrified early WoW. At least in the show we’re going to see more of his transformation.
The only part i miss about the Winterfell storyline is the confession in the Godswood, Alfie Allen would have killed it. But it’s understandable since we haven’t seen any of Bran’s training yet.
Well no, but I really don’t want to see a random actor pretending to be young Sean Bean.
In the show canon, Ned was probably at least 25 by time of the Robert’s Rebellion. Not that it makes much difference.
Anyone think we should be worried at the lack of Ironborn casting? Could it be that the Pirate character is not who we thought?
Arthur Dayne!?!? Tower of Joy??!! Squeeeee!
The Lord of Noble Northern House definitely sounds like an Umber to me. When I first read the description, I thought this might be a recast version of the Greatjon … but then I went back and saw the age requirements allowed the character to be as young as 25. So that doesn’t exactly fit. But I do think we will see the Umbers and the other Northern lords this season, especially since Rickon was rumored to be heading to Last Hearth at the end of Season 3. (My guess would be that Rickon will be revealed to have been hiding at Last Hearth under the Umbers’ protection since his last appearance. I do not think that Davos’s extended side quest to Skagos will be included in the show).
The Legendary Fighter with a “famous sword” certainly appears to be consistent Arthur Dayne. Obviously, that character can only appear via flashback – most likely at the Tower of Joy. When this news is combined with the prior casting call that included what appeared to be the description of a young Ned Stark, I think we may be seeing a significant part of Bran’s arc this season come into focus. In addition to whatever greater training that the Three-Eyed Raven puts him through, he could explore several key moments in the life of his father via the Weirwood network (a perfect opportunity for Sean Bean to make his long-desired return). That could culminate in the reveal of Jon’s parentage, and presage his return.
While I hope Jon will be resurrected early in Season 6, I could envision a scenario in which he’s absent for most of the season, and only returns to life after his true lineage has been revealed to the audience. That would pretty clearly set him up as the central character heading into the endgame, the battle against the White Walkers, and what will likely be the final season of Game of Thrones.
Lachlan, Flynn, Japeth, and potentially Bower all sound like they could be members of the Brotherhood without Banners gone rogue. This information would be consistent with the show’s rumored return to the Riverlands for Season 6. If this is the Brotherhood, then of course the question becomes who will be leading them. It could be Beric and Thoros. It could be the Blackfish. It could be someone new. Or it could be the dreadful specter of the Internet’s most overblown character.
I had so hoped that the end Season 5 would finally kill off the incessant speculation about when Lady Stoneheart is going to turn up. Alas. I am not eager to see that carousel of speculation and misplaced hype start up again, but of course it will. I just hope that I can stay out of its path, and that the prospect of that character’s appearance will either be confirmed or debunked (hopefully the latter) relatively quickly. Normally, I’m all for speculating about which characters may appear based on scant circumstantial evidence. But in the case of this particular character, I want no part of it.
Nearly all of these new cast are invention of D&D, and have nothing to do with GRRM’s novel, that means D&D have decided to go farther down the road that is started with season 5, now I can say season 6 is doomed even before it is filemed
OK, I don’t want to get my hopes up here, but if we’re getting a Tower of Joy flashback here, then there’s NO WAY Jon is actually gone for good. Why bother even going in to that territory if it’s irrelevant to the plot? Kit should have done us all a favor and just answered “No comment”.
KrakenDaughter,
There’s no way that’s not Euron. The description is so on the nose that they might as well have just said outright they’re casting Euron Greyjoy.
Aeron and Victarion are probably out so they’ll likely bring back Gemma Whelan (in fact I think she tweeted recently that she would be at Comic Con with other GOT cast members) and just cast small parts and extras for other Ironborn.
I doubt this is casting for BwB since, as mentioned already, they already have a leader and they never preyed upon the poor. Far more likely this is casting for the Ironborn raid on the Shield Islands of The Reach in the name of the Drowned God. Although they have a leader in Euron he’s going to be busy finding dragons
KrakenDaughter,
Of the 3 BWB characters they introduced in the show, at this point in the books…
Mr Fixit,
Someone has not seen Snow White and the Huntsman. It’s really not that difficult to make a 50 year old look like a 20 year old thanks to the advances in makeup
marsyao,
What the hell are you talking about? Season 6 will be the equivalent of Winds of Winter. Which means that a lot of the new characters we see in S6 will most likely appear in George’s next book. I thought that was pretty evident.
marsyao,
Or, they’re characters from the books, with different names in the casting calls to prevent reveals, and with their characters altered slightly to fit the show universe. Or TWOW characters we haven’t seen in the books yet.
Ravyn,
Not necessarily if the first reincarnation happened in the past. We have not seen the BWB for ages (Lachlan and co seem A LOT like BWB), still the writers would need to explain why Beric isn´t with them anymore (IF he isn´t there anymore). Now they have six options (at least I see four obvious options, there may be even more);
1.) Telling us he died/ the lord of light didn´t bring him back this time around. This just seems incredibly random after Beric´s revival, which is still the only in the show, and most likely won´t happen.
2.) Telling us that Beric and Thoros abandoned the BWB after these got corrupted and malevolent. Still not very likely, since the quite explicit set-up in Season 3 would be completely neglected.
3.) Stick completely to the books: Include Lady Stoneheart and make the BWB her minions. It would be a delight for some fans, however I´m not sure if it makes that much sense to include her after all that time hs passed since the Red Wedding, it´s just not that relevant anymore…
4.) Random other guy has taken over the BWB. Blackfish or maybe even Gendry, he even once was with the BWB and honestly, he can´t be just rowing in the Narrow Sea after all this time. The Riverlands and the BWB would be a logical place form him to go. This would make sense since they could then more or less
5. The BWB are a substitute for LSH and the book-story of Brienne will be applied.
6. Those aren´t the BWB but the bloddy mummers or some other group of mercenaries. Definitely an option, even though we may not yet see what that means for the story/ the plotline of the one character interacting with them.
So to conclude this, I deem options 4&5 as the most likely, option 3&6 could well be possible, too. At least that´s what I could think of, like I said before, there could be so many other options since we didn´t have a chance to read TWOW yet and thus lack quite a bit of insight into the story. To be honest, I really do not care very much about LSH, she has a minor role in the books as of now and may be included for the sake of the part of the fadom that craves for her appearance, but she might as well be scrapped for good.
joffreysbleedingeyes,
I’m with you. Seeing anything beyond Lyanna’s conversation with Ned is pointless and has no relevance to the show at all. It won’t be done justice so leave it out.
I guess it’s possible that he has survived but I’m not sure how old he was when he “died”. Rhaegar was in his mid 20s I think and I believe Dayne was of a similar age so he might just scrape into the age range. I’m really not sure!
If we have to look around or other candidates Lyn Cobray is the most obvious choice I guess. Anyone else would surely have to be a flashback and I can’t really see the point in any flashbacks that would add anyting at this point.
For the northern Lords then , unless they create their own characters, the bear man would have to be Mors or Smalljon Umber. A bit confused why they didn’t just use the Greatjon again though?. The other lords well, could be any of them but Wyman Manderly is the most fitting as he’s probably the only really prominent Northern Lord and the description of his stronghold could be New Castle (be funny if they cast all of them as Geordies!) in White Harbour and they are very loyal vassels to the starks although I would have thought they would have mentioned his jovial side and weight as well as his calculating side unless they’re going to change him up a bit.
Interesting times!
True, but Ned was supposed to already be gray-haired. They were living lifestyles that aged them more rapidly than modern lifestyles would: and particularly more than the lifestyles of most actors and actresses (who live to keep looking young, after all).
Moreover, it is pretty easy with CGI to make people look a bit younger, particularly in the right settings. Flashbacks are ideal for that: you often want the production of “flashbacks” to look more dream like (paler colors, less sharp focus) in order to cue the viewing audience that they are seeing the past or a memory, and it usually works pretty well these days.
Now, you don’t want to do too much of it for too long: but in small doses and in slightly surreal settings, it works just fine. (They did a pretty good job with Lena Headey’s head on Mercy: there were only a few times that it slipped; this would actually be less work and in a shorter scene.)
Looking at this, there are tons and tons of possible interpretations. My guess is that they are doing one of them. (Or not.)
But as for the Tower of Joy, that will be done only if Jon is returning: otherwise, what point would it have? Moreover, I still worry that they have cut Jon is to avoid showing that.
Whoever D&D cast as Lyanna has to be a dark haired and dark eyed (Stark features) beauty.
I mean we are talking Helen of Troy type beauty here…
Turncloak,
Has to be. And what’s the point if Jon isn’t coming back? Big hint that he’s coming back!!!
By the way, I don’t buy the “reborn in fire” possibility. He isn’t fire-proof like Dany.
A few people have mentioned the Umbers, and seeing as they live way up North and are apparently housing Rickon, that could be a possibility. However, is there a chance that we may finally meet some of the Skagosi?
Ginevra,
The nobleman who leads a House is the head of the family – the CEO in his expensive suit.
The lords of the strongholds are the IT managers, the warehouse boss, etc.
Could the maester be Pate at the citadel?
I don’t see how it can be Lyn Corbray. Do you think Lyn is a paragon of knighthood?
I’d like to add that the ‘legendary fighter’ highly likely appears in a flashback. Note how the casting call isn’t looking for an actor at all — it’s looking for “the best swordsman in Europe”. If the guy’s not an actor, what larger role could he possibly have? I’d say what we have is a flashback sequence.
In all honesty, I have respect for HBO and you’d think they already know D&D don’t want to do this fantasy series forever.
You’d think HBO signed up GRRM for a reason right, to move forward with his Westeros fantasy world after D&D move on to whatever they want to do next.
Because of this, you’d think HBO would be working closely with D&D when they are doing any flashback casting so the same actors cast for these roles can reappear in a new prequel series.
IDK, it doesn’t seem that far fetched an idea to me, D&D would be doing HBO a huge favor kind of with the flashbacks, laying out the seeds that could grow into another Westeros series.
But they would have to really coordinate everything on an unprecedented level to make it work.
Arthur,
Emergency Awesome did a video a month or two ago about Lyanna and used a picture of Lily Collins from Mirror Mirror as his “stand in” whenever referring to her. Ever since then I can’t help but picture her when I read or think about Lyanna.
What’s interesting to me reading these casting notices/speculations is to try and filter them through the lens of the saga’s finale. There isn’t much (if any) time left for stray subplots and divergences. As it is I wonder how they’re going to wrap up what they have in the air in just two more seasons. Everything now has to point to the finale, and figuring out how these news items fit into that, as opposed to serving fan wish lists, is fascinating.
”Awful male character”
username Queen of thrones
what more is there to say really
He’s burned his hand. Dany was also burned by Drogon escaping Daznak’s pit. Not all Targaryen’s are fire-proof but it’s been said special circumstances can lead to be immune to fire. Well, with Shireen at the Wall in the books maybe this is the reason for burning Shireen. Only blood can pay for life. Of course it was a little different for Dany as she was still alive when she went into the flames.
Arthur,
Is GRRM signed with HBO to do more Westeros stuff? I thought the series he was working was set in the 50s.
Tormund’s Woman,
Ned,Howland and other extras vs Arthur Dayne,Hightower,Whent.This is just one smal piece in the puzzle.
It would make a good tv.Hightower with his “We swore a vow”,Arthur “So it begins” and ned with his “So it ends”. Tbh I would like to see young Lyanna flashback.
Wimsey,
Not sure it’s is gonna be all that short. The call specifies a week of filming fight scenes. Looks like a pretty elaborate scene.
Ser Florian,
Nah, I read the book, none of these characters share any similarity with characters in the books
It almost sounds like Lachlan, Flynn and Japath could be Kingswood Brotherhood and the “Legendary Fighter” could be Athur Dayne defeating them in Bran flashbacks?
KrakenDaughter,
Actually I am not, and not only because I am also a Stannis fan.
I love the interaction between the two in that TWOW chapter and I was looking forward for it, and once again I’ll be disappointed.
I don’t think he will be sacrified , I have a sensation that Theon has still a part to play in the story, and probably in the series he will come back to the Islands, considered that in the 6th season we’ll see Euron and probably the Kingsmoot ( I hope)
Totally agree. Bring back the Blackfish!
I agree that Sansa will get back Winterfell and become Rickon’s regent. However, nothing in the show has given an indication that Sansa could independently navigate politics yet. Season 5 reinforced this with the snarky way she talked to the Boltons. In season 4 she made a decision to lie for LF and try to align herself with a stronger player. LF is bad news, but their stories are intertwined for a while.
I think they are combining the main strokes of Sansa’s AFFC’s storyline with the Northern conspiracy storyline in ADWD. LF was doing a lot of political maneuvering and buying up debts to get allies in the Vale and he was becoming looser in revealing his larger plans to Sansa. He will probably do the same thing but in the North. They will reintegrate LF and Sansa’s TWOW storyline.
Ravyn,
I think there are multiple projects and not all have been stated what they are.
Robb Snow,
I love Charlie. He may not always be right in his predictions, but he puts a ton of work into his videos and has a fantastic background understanding.
” The group is using religion to justify terrorizing and extorting what they need from the people of the countryside.”
Why religion is always potrayed as completely negative? The character from earlier casting that might be septon Meriband is probably some villain too. It is getting a bit annoying.
Robb Snow,
YouTube is such a cool site… This was a nice little music video with the story of Lyanna Stark.
Arthur,
Nice, here’s a video I made of Dany (and hopefully something that’s about to happen with Jon):
Lyanna Stark has grey eyes like Arya.
I like this fan art, there is a definite resemblence between Lyanna and Maisie’s Arya.
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Lyanna_stark_by_riavel.jpg
Had no idea who Lily Collins was but when I looked she does have the whole eyebrow thing 😉 In this pic she and Maisie could be sisters
http://marieclaire.media.ipcdigital.co.uk/11116/00007582c/fc8a_orh100000w440/Lily-Collins-garticle3.jpg
marsyao,
None of them? Submissive Maester doesn’t sound like Kerwin to you? Legendary Fighter doesn’t sound like Arthur Dayne to you? Lord of Noble Northern House doesn’t sound like an Umber to you? The Outlaws don’t don’t sound like the Brotherhood to you?
KG,
Thanks, KG. Is there a source for that?
hexonx,
That was awesome! Did you really make that?
One of these days I am going to make my own GoT fan montage.
Arthur,
D&D don’t care about that kind of coordination, I don’t think. Just look at all the recasting they’ve done. If they don’t care about consistency in the actors playing Tommen, Myrcella, or Daario, why should they help out the showrunners for the next GRRM show by putting tons of effort into casting actors for a show they’re not even likely to be working on?
hexonx,
that’s a great video!
I really hope so…
Book readers starting to doubt Jon’s return worries me
I have no memory of that, but given Sam’s descriptions of him, that hardly seems unsurprising! Kevan Lannister clearly considers Tarley to be a formidable individual, too: and that means all the more when you think about who Kevan uses as a formidable-meter!
Unfortunately, in one way, it could not. B&W do have a policy of introducing no character before his/her/it’s time. All of the “she’s so epic!” stuff aside, it is possible that LSH is important in Winter. I wish that we knew…..
Daughter of Winter,
My blushes!
Yeah, a couple years ago so it only has footage from seasons 1-2. I started to make a Joffrey one to The Ravonettes cover of The Stone Roses “I Wanna Be Adored”. But I didn’t have a very good video editor at the time and it was pretty time consuming. I have a better one now so I might start it again.
Does anyone know the name of the actress on the 3min mark of this Lyanna Stark video?
IMO, that’s the dark beautiful features she would have to have!
Nope. Just drawing conclusions from the in-book use of the word “House.” In the books, “house” isn’t used for a specific building; it indicates the entire family tree.
However, you don’t have to be the head of your House to rule a stronghold. For example, Ned tells pre-injury Bran that someday he will rule a castle as Robb’s bannerman.
Sam,
They care, but they are going to do what is best for the show no doubt.
I am just saying, if HBO can pull the trigger on some kind of prequel series and start coordinating this with D&D, that would be really great, but I am probably just dreaming.
Well those of us that read the last book when it came out have had 4 years to speculate all the different ways Jon can come back. I don’t know too many book readers that don’t think he’s coming back in some form or another.
Well, what they do might well be important to the plot, but who they are is not that important. Much of the source of the debate has been whether it is important to include Manderly or the stuff that Manderly does. I say “no” to the former and “not yet, but possibly in the future” to the latter.
However, we’ve known that Rickon is with a Northern Lord since the end of Season 3, haven’t we? So, we should expect the Umbers (or whichever house it was Osha went) to turn up this year or next.
Our question should be: is that where Sansa and Theon will head, or will it be Davos going there? It’s Friday, so I’m leaning towards Sansa & Theon going there. (Tomorrow, I’ll lean towards them running into a Vale army, but I’ll be back to this view on Sunday.)
Arthur,
A young Gemma Arterton?
Also love the use of “Surface of the Sun,” such an epic track.
You do understand that GoT is quite possibly the show with the largest number of speaking parts in the history of television. And you think that something like 4 recast characters out of hundreds over 5 years betrays a lack of care about consistency? Really?
hexonx,
Thank you, I think you are right!
Pigeon,
As i mentioned i’m a long time reader here and i’m pretty much aware of specific people and their opinions so out of all the commenters in wotw i’m not expecting YOU to agree with my thoughts and opinions
The problem with prequels is that the conclusion of the plot is written with a different story in mind. As such, most attempts to make prequels are storyless plot for the sake of plot. Very few viewers are going to care about the faux history of Westeros, so without a good story, it would not go over well.
Obviously, it’s Syrio Forel with a new face. I mean, d’uh…..
😀
hexonx,
I think most of them were pretty sure he was coming back until those interviews came out after the finale. I mean story wise it would make so much sense and why include all this foreshadowing “he always comes back” and “kill the boy let the man be born” as well as hints to R+L=J if they didn’t mean something.
But these book readers have had the doubts now mostly from the aforementioned interviews. Maybe D&D are planning to go with out that… I hope not and ithink that would be dumb, but who the eff knows anymore.
It wouldn’t have made sense for Sansa to work with the Northern lords. She knows nothing of Northern politics and very little of how to work in Southron politics. She’s a young, inexperienced teen who wouldn’t have added much to their plans since they likely already have Rickon, the heir to the North after Bran. She’s also a Lannister which is probably why none of the Northern lords seemed to care that she “married” Ramsay.
Wimsey,
Spartacus did a prequel. I hear it was all so good (gonna watch it soon)
I think GOT should too
the history is just so interesting
Maybe eight seasons isn’t a farfetched possibility after all.
Holy crap at that new casting list. The GoT universe is supposed to be contracting, not expanding, as the story nears the end. This tale seems bigger than ever going into S6. No complaints, this speculation is exciting!
Anyone think
Um, she most certainly did. It failed pretty miserably – trying to play politics with a psychopath rarely works out well – but she did not sit passively by and watch the sun rise and set (seemingly with wonderment at the regularity of it) for once.
Bruce Lee movies come to mind here. In all three of those, his character would try to do something and get his butt totally kicked. Then he’d train like mad and kick butt in the finale. That is an extreme take on this sort of character cycle.
It looks like season 6 will be the most packed season yet. It seems that we will have all the following storylines:
* Beyond The Wall: Bran, Hodor, Meera, Leaf, Three-eyed Raven
* The Wall: Melisandre, Edd, Alliser,…
* The Gift: Tormund, Wun-Wun
* The North: Umbers, Rickon, Osha, Davos
* Winterfell: Ramsay, Roose, Walda
* The Vale: Littlefinger, Robin, Yohn Royce, …
* The Riverlands: BwB (probably Thoros, Anguy, Gendry)
* The Reach: Randyll Tarly & family
* Oldtown: Sam, Gilly
* Kings Landing: Cersei, Margaery, Tommen, Loras, Olenna, Qyburn, Gregor, Pycelle, Kevan, High Sparrow, Unella, Olyvar, Lancel, …
* Dorne: Doran, Ellaria, Sand Snakes, Hotah
* Iron Islands: Balon, Yara, Euron
* Braavos: Arya, Jaqen, Waif, Mace, Tycho
* Dothraki Sea: Dany
* Meereen: Tyrion, Varys, Missandei, Kovarro, Grey Worm,
* Jaime, Bronn, Trystane
* Sansa, Theon
* Brienne Pod
* Daario, Jorah
* Something with WW
Possibly other storylines:
* Riverrun
* The Twins
* Highgarden
* Casterly Rock
I begin to see why Stannis’ story needed the fastfoward. How are they possibly gonna end Game of Thrones in 7 seasons when so many storylines are still in play…
….Sansa called him “Theon” every single time she talked to him. She called him Theon when she first saw him in the kennels and after the wedding she goes all out to reinforce to him that he is, “Theon of House Greyjoy. Last surviving son of Balon Greyjoy, Lord of the Iron Islands.” Hell, she even goes so far as to call him her “brother” (i.e. “They weren’t ‘those boys’, they were Bran and Rickon. They were your brothers! You’ve known them since they were born.”)
Also, I think its imperative to point out that Theon is dealing with the REAL Sansa Stark and not a fake Arya Stark. Why is that important? Because she is a living, breathing reminder of everything he was. He knows exactly who he is every time he looks at her. And with that recognition comes a whole heaping amount of guilt (shown when he first sees her walking in the courtyard and turns away to avoid her); and affection/caring. He cares for her already, so he doesn’t have to be “pushed” into helping her. And that caring is demonstrated when he tells her that he was trying to “help her” when he told Ramsay about the candle, and in the final scene where he saves her life.
Speaking of which, I think people miss a lot of the nuances in dialogue in that finale scene. In the Hardhome episode when she asks him why he told Ramsay, he tells her told her because HE tried to escape once, and Ramsay strapped him to a cross and took off piece by piece. Fast-forward to “Mother’s Mercy” and you have a very brilliant way of connect these scenes and making his “transformation” back into Theon extremely realistic and powerful. What is the context of that scene? Sansa is trying to escape (er…light a candle to escape). When she is confronted with Theon and Myranda, Theon initially tells her to “listen” to Myranda and just go back to her room. But when Sansa says, “I know who Ramsay is, and I know what he’ll do to me…” (a direct callback to Theon telling her what happened to HIM when HE tried to escape (which is also why they focused on Theon after she said that)), it triggers not only his real identity, but also, his caring for her. He doesn’t want her to be hurt. So, when he sees Myranda about to hurt her (after she gives a speech about all the body parts she doesn’t need (ANOTHER reinforcement of Theon’s suffering))…he pushes her over. And when he hears that Ramsay is back, he grabs her to save her from the punishment he received when he tried to escape. It makes sense. That it didn’t happen exactly like the book doesn’t take away from the fact that it makes sense in the show.
I bet if we watched all of the Winterfell scenes together, without other storylines or breaks, the whole thing would be very coherent and well done.
Deesensfan,
Jon is definitely not permanently dead. The R+L=J reveal would be completely gratuitous otherwise. D&D and Kit technically aren’t lying when they say Jon is dead (though I do think Kit is bullshitting about not being in Season 6), but Melisandre encountered Beric and Thoros in Season 3 and returned to Castle Black before Jon’s death for a reason.
Yeah she did try to push him a bit about being a bastard and with Walda being pregnant, threatening his position. I though she was going to keep pushing him to try to get him to kill Walda and divide the Boltons but he shut that down pretty quickly.
I’m not sure. GoT is known for it’s twists and turns. I mean halfway through Season 5 the path to the end game was Stannis getting the Throne, Jon getting the wildlings at Hardhome and coming back to the Wall and Dany coming from Meereen all in time for the White Walkers. I doubt the “endgame” will even be in view until the second half of Season 7. I mean look at Mad Men, it was on a COMPLETELY different path until the last few episodes.
Mr Fixit,
Who is a paragon of knighthood?! He helped Rhaegar kidnap Lyanna and was one of the Kingsguard who stood by as Brandon and Rickard were burnt alive and the Mad King raped his wife/sister. I think I’m just hoping it’s not. A character of such prominence in the universe deserves more than being flashback fodder. His presence is not needed in the slightest to tell the story.
Perhaps it’s Azor Ahai in a flashback? I just really don’t want them to do a rushed ToJ. Leave that for a Robert’s Rebellion prequel if that should ever happen.
Qhogo may be a tongue-in-cheek replacement for Qotho, killed in Season 1, but who Martin complained would return later in the novels.
Daughter of Winter,
Good. 🙂 What a boring world it would be.
Only if you believe the kidnapping stories. Ned seemed to still have respect for him.
Boudica,
Wonderful idea about sansa and jon working together so exciting
Zalos,
How could season 6 be “wind of winter” when GRRM himself has not finished this book? Oh wait, I forget GRRM gave a brief to D&d that is so detail that it cover the book 6 even before he put it on paper. I guess I am not a fan boy of the show
TheTouchOfFrost,
Why are you so sure that they kidnapped Lyanna and that she didn’t go with Rhaegar of her own volition?
Well, don’t watch it, if you’re not a fan.
Wimsey,
HBO has found itself a nitch, an 8million first viewership nitch in TV land. There is nothing like GoT anywhere at the moment. There has got to be someway they can make some GoT related spinoff series to keep this HUGE following glued to their TV sets during Spring Sunday nights.
I think it would be foolish for them not to try something, be it prequel, spinoff, something Westerosy.
That is all I am saying. What are they going to do? Just disband us after GoT ends? They have a huge core adult fantasy following they built up. Like any smart cooperation will do, my guess is they will build upon it even if it means taking a risk of doing a prequel that, as you stated, in the past usually has gathered less interest.
It really feels like we’re getting 8 seasons rather than 7. Hopefully they can still keep this season interesting if that’s the case. It sounds good from this casting news.
hexonx,
This.
I thought it was fairly accepted in most regions that Lyanna ran off with Rhaegar of her own volition, but just not discussed in other regions for various reasons…..
Robb Snow,
I agree… Totally agree, all this should mean something right?
but how do we know they will reveal R+L=J
I agree, the age is off to be The Greatjon. If the Greatjon is recast, it will be someone close to Clive Mantle’s age, just as they did with the two Daarios. Well, they may not get that close, since the two Daarios are only one year apart (Skrein is 32, Huisman is 33).
I’m definitely on the “OMG, Arthur Fucking Dayne” bandwagon. Sure, that description could fit someone else, but who would it fit more perfectly than Ser Arthur Dayne? Is there anyone currently alive who would fit that description?
Geralt of Rivia,
I think it would make an incredible TV too! Ooooh, how that lines sound in my head!
I don’t mind the hype on this one. I just got a gut feeling I’m right. (my gut feeling never fails :p)
I often wonder whether Jon’s plot in DoD would have changed at all if
So how can the show fail to be an “invention of D&D, and have nothing to do with GRRM’s novel”, as you complained earlier?
Robb Snow,
Selmy talking about how Rhaegar was a good man in the same episode sansa hatefuly said that Rhaegar kidnaped and raped her and LF gave her a “You know nothing, Sansa” look….. to me Lyanna left with him voluntarily.
Darquemode,
Littlefinger’s facial expression and silence after Sansa mentioned Rhaegar kidnapping and raping her aunt said it all to me. He knows the truth about them and might even know or at least have a suspicion about the “promise.”
EDIT: Deesensfan beat me to it. 😛
http://io9.com/one-major-game-of-thrones-character-may-not-be-as-dead-1712452372
I remember reading a comment saying GRRM once indicated Jon would learn who his mother was. Not sure if that’s true or not.
winterisntcomming,
He is almost certainly another role (see “father”)
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Hahaha…
I actually feel bad for D&D, they are doing their best to keep their season 5 finale’s final scene’s integrity…
But they most know, with fans like us, its impossible to keep things from us. We have regulars that come to this site that I honestly think are real detectives. If there is any evidence of anything GoT related, they find it and post it!
Of course they can just say he is there for his burial scene or something like that. But they got to know we know, but in their defense, the casual viewer CAN be tricked, just not us.
hexonx,
I hope so.
I hope D&D stick with it though.
marsyao,
So hopefully you’ll stop watching right?
hexonx,
I thought I remembered reading that as well, but I looked for a source a while back and did not find one… Maybe my memory is false and based on reading someone other than GRRM’s comments or maybe I missed the original link.
I read a great commentary about that scene where the author frames these moments as “power struggles”. He/She (I don’t recall) says that rape is more of a psychological demonstration of power than a sexual desire, so Ramsay raping Sansa is his way of having power over the heir to the North. So then, when she calls him a bastard–an illegitimate heir to both his House and the North–it was her way of trying to get some power back and tip the scales in her favor (within this “power struggle”). Very interesting commentary. Made me look at the scene/interaction differently.
Edit: …And to actually stay on topic (sorry), I’m super excited for the possibility of a Tower of Joy flashback. Combine that with the Children of the Forest/White Walkers flashback and Bran’s storyline might actually be the place to be this next season. Also, I think S6 picks up right where S5 left off. So, rather than using the first one or two episode to get everyone back up to speed, they’re just going to kick off with one of the cliffhangers.
Gazillion,
Much rather see Arthur Dayne than Coldhands
Arthur,
In a way they DID get a bit of success anyway….even if Jon comes blazing back in episode 1 of Season 6, and he’s caught filming tomorrow, they can still have the satisfaction of the agonized screams of despair heard around the world last Sunday night. LOL. 😉
Arthur,
This is what boggles my mind
Trying to end it on a cliffhanger that half their audience (bookreaders) have been dying to see resolved and have tons of theories for, and then trying to hide it – that’s gotta be almost impossible.
And then theres nonbook readers like me that dissects every part of the show and has tons of theories as well
I don’t know.
Also, why did Kit say he wasn’t coming back Why didn’t he say I cant comment or I don’t know
RosanaZugey,
It was Sansa’s best moment this season, imo. You could just see plain as day how much it hit him, despite how quickly he seemed to recover. Ouch!
Pigeon,
Only nerds like us will actually know about Kit being seen on set. The overwhelming majority of Unsullied probably don’t keep up with the latest GOT news and will be genuinely surprised when Jon rises from the dead. Much audience applause will ensue.
Deesensfan,
Hello everyone – Deesensfan, I think you mentioned on another thread rewatching all the seasons. I thought it was a great idea, and intended to rewatch Hardhome, then go back and start season one. Funny thing though, I couldn’t bear to start watching Hardhome – when it aired, I was enthralled with Jon’s part: the way he negotiated and explained, the way he fought and survived, the way he cared.
Now I can’t watch it. What’s the sense. It was all for nothing. He’s dead, they’re saying dead and gone, that Kit is off the show, there will be no versions of Kit in any form. I can’t bear the idea of watching any of the episodes now. The effort he made, the correct decisions he made and then acted upon, for nothing. If they were going to kill him forever, they should have done it last year.
There are more than one submissive Maester other than Kerwin, and what is point of Kerwin without Kingsmoot? There are more than one Legendary Fighter with a famous sword than Sword of morning, and what is point of tower of joy after “for the watch”? There are certainly more than one Lord of Noble Northern House than Umber, and what is the point of Umbers when Stannis is dead? and brotherhood go bad? Interesting.
Does that prove D&D are creating their own stories and it has nothing to do with the novel other than some character and geography locations share the same name? So my point stands correct “none of these characters share any similarity with characters in the books”
In that original outline from 1993, GRRM states this explicitly. Of course, he also had an Arya-Tyrion-Jon love triangle, so obviously some things have changed since then. 😉
Robb Snow,
That is also very true
I have a lot friends who are unsullied (I am unsullied too but im a nerd lol)
Half of them think Jon is dead DEAD and are devastated but think GRRM is so cool for doing something so unexpected
The other half think he is coming back because the “Gross red lady is magical” LOL
Deesensfan,
The thing is, GRRM leaves hints. He hides these hints really well but with a million eyes looking and the huge amount of fan discussion, these subtle hints might as will just stand right out in the open.
D&D knew this, and to throw us all into a panic they had to come out with some PR campaign in an effort to keep that last scenes integrity.
It was the logical thing to do.
Yeah, I don’t follow GRRM news much, I’ve seen and read a few interviews but that’s it. I rely on the comments section here as I know there are some that follow GRRM news closely. But it’s always hard to determine what is truth and what is bullshit.
Daughter of Winter,
So you do admit I have a point, right?
Nice castings. No signs of Howland Reed yet,though.
I like the idea of the Boltons getting booted out from within the north with Rickon as the Stark talisman rather than needing assistance from some southron king. Winterfell has seemed ridiculously empty. Where might the Vale troops come in? Taking out Frey’s on the way north?
If Darkstar was going to show up why cast Ellaria in his role this season and then have to go to all the trouble of introducing a new character. Arthur Dayne it is. R+L=J will be gradually confirmed, apparently futilely given Jon’s situation, but then he will be brought back in the final scene. Personally, I think that scene has already been filmed. So neither Kit nor the show runners have actually lied, but have been ‘economical with the truth’.
Arthur,
Yeah that’s true. I really hope its a PR stint.
Thronetender,
I know what you mean, I was thinking that last night and im like.. whats the point right now? and I was also thinking to start the books but I don’t know if should wait to see if jons back or not. To me the story gets ruined without him and the show without Kit being him.
Nice find/memory. Yeah, hard to rely on anything from that far back, unless he’s also said it elsewhere more recently.
Probably because saying “I can’t comment” is admitting that he’s coming back. Otherwise, why can’t he comment?
She’d be wrong if she did. One encounters on a lot of painful rubbish on this and other forums like it, but you really are going the extra mile in whining about the show being unfaithful to books which, on your own account, don’t even exist.
Deesensfan,
If you start the books do yourself a favor and get the iTunes audio books and listen to it for an hour so so before bed.
They guy who narrates it does every characters voice different, he is so awesome, he made it so much fun to listen to and I never had to guess who it was because his voice was different for each PoV character.
Simeon,
Ugh I know. That’s what I was thinking also at some point.
Arthur,
Oh that is so cool!!
TheTouchOfFrost,
“The finest knight I ever saw was Ser Arthur Dayne” Ned, to Bran. In ACoK.
“They whispered of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys’s Kingsguard” Catelyn. In AGoT.
“At five-and-ten, Ser Jaime Lannister was already a Knight – an honour he had received from the hand of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, whom many considered to be the Realm’s most chivalrous warrior.” Aerys II section of TWoIaF.
Seems like he was considered as a paragon of knighthood to me. You say he isn’t needed to tell the story, but we don’t know what the story is… mayhaps he is needed, and the Tower of Joy is needed, to tell the story.
Sergei Walankov,
Well, I guess it is because I am a fan of GRRM, I am no fan of D&D
Oh yeah! Thumbs UP!! I was fist-pumping over here. And even more so considering the fact that this interaction came on the heels of her confessing that he basically rapes and abuses her every night. Even after all of that, the woman wasn’t afraid to call him out and hit him where she knows it hurts him most. That’s where I see the character development. It might not have been the exact way I wanted (manipulating everyone) or in the context I wanted (politicking) but it shows growth. I don’t think “previous” Sansa would have taken the chance of grievously wounding the ego’s of her captors.
I was composing my mournful post just as the hopeful posts about him being seen in Belfast showed up. So, I’m not quite so mopey now. I won’t fully abandon my mournfulness (is that a word?) just yet, in order to keep up my defenses.
Aside from all the other clues I’ve read that seem to point to his return, there might be a bit of hope clinging to one I haven’t seen mentioned too much, which is Tyrion’s mention of Thoros of Myr, while he and Varys were in Volantis. Thoros brought back Dondarrion 6 times. Why include that mention in a script where every word and minute of screen time is precious, unless it meant something, right? Right? Ye gods, I can’t believe I’m like this.
Lord of Noble Northern House – Hugo Wull ?
João Victor,
They need to show that R and L married, or else isn’t Jon a Blackfyre without a legitimate claim to the Iron Throne? Did Targs have multiple wives?
Please the Seven, let them be casting different Umbers and not recasting the Greatjon!!! Why they had to recast Myrcella for that minimal bit of nothing; how pointless! Tommen went from an preschooler in the pilot to older looking than Arya
UNRELATED TO CASTING: Everyone is entitled to their own opinion… so if you love D&D’s version, you’re not wrong.
But IMO, D&D really absolutely screwed up season 5 so poorly, how can we look forward to the final 2 seasons?
They can still create “moments” like the incredible Hardhome… but they’ve lost the handle on the overall story, pacing and tone of their story.
Sundancer,
You know, I was thinking, does that even matter if they were married because didn’t Rhaegar get killed 1st, before the Mad King?
So If Rhaegar is already dead, then the Mad King dies, that would then make Dany’s beggar brother the rightful king, but then he died, so it would go to Dany?
I could be wrong please correct me if I am.
This might be off-topic a bit, but since it seems they are casting Sam Tarley’s family, it’s not too bad: I know that by joining the Nights Watch he gives up his lordship in favor of his younger brother, so he’s no longer a lord by law, only by blood. But are all the sons of a lord lords as well? Osha used to call Bran “Little Lord” all the time. I guess I’m asking if all the children, even the younger ones, born to a lord are automatically lords and ladies? Is there any way Sam could be released fro NW vows to become a lord again?
After all this time I thought I would know, but I don’t.
Sundancer,
Some Targs had multiple wives, yes.
Thronetender,
Hope springs eternal
Arthur,
Everyone seems to have a different take on the way succession works in GoT. I think the point of Jon being Rhaegar’s son has more to do with what it means for the battle against the White Walkers and not his rightful claim to the Crown, which may no longer be there by the time the series concludes.
Arthur,
If the son of the king dies first, the heir to the throne becomes the son’s son, i.e. the current king’s grandson. Therefore, after Rhaegar’s death, his son Aegon was the Mad King’s heir.
Arthur,
You’re wrong. Rhaegar’s son Aegon would have come before Viserys, and if Rhaegar married Lyanna, any legitimate son of theirs would have come after Aegon, and before Viserys.
If Prince Charles (the current heir to the British throne) dies tomorrow, and the Queen dies the day after, Prince William (Charles’ oldest son) becomes King, not Prince Andrew (Charles’ oldest brother).
hexonx,
this
I agree with this
https://aliceinwesteros.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/snowy-iron-throne.png
“There’s no cure for being a cunt.”
– Bronn
This site needs an ignore feature.
Deesensfan,
Okay thanks for explaining, I was under the impression you had to actual BE a king before you pass on that title to a son, so if Rhaegar died before the Mad King, he would have never obtained that “King” title so why would any of his sons then get it…
But I guess it doesn’t matter, from the logic you stated, The Mad King can die after Rhaegar, and if Rhaegar had 3 sons, all of whom have also died, and one of them had a son, HE would be more entitled to the throne then Viserys.
Look, to each their own and all the obvious verbiage… But to ask how we can look forward to the final seasons is a bit self-involved, don’t you think? I for one look forward to season 6 and beyond with excitement and I doubt I’m the only one.
‘Father’ could be Ned Stark’s father, if we’re going the flashback route. But mostly I’m just excited they’re looking for the best swordsman in Europe.
Arthur,
Thank Mr Fixit and Ser Florian 😉
Hahaha but you know I don’t know if we would see a resurrected Jon on the throne.
I wonder how it would play out if he gets to that point and meets up with Dany who thinks she has rights to the throne also. My two faves against each other! LOL
Count me as another one.
Season 5 stumbled in some places but it was rock solid for the most part. The people who seem to complain the most are book purists and action junkies, and the former would’ve hated it no matter what. You have only to look at Westeros.org and its infamous webmasters to see that.
Robb Snow,
These people should really stop watching the show… like why watch if you don’t like it?
I just saw on twitter that someone asked Linda and Elio if they were doing a season recap video or if they were to mad too do one” LIKE SERIOUSLY why do you watch??
I tweeted back asked why do you watch if you don’t like it ??
House Baggins,
Except he is not legendary. In the books it is clear that there is one swordsman who stood above the rest and that is Dayne. There is no ambiguity. Maybe the individual responsible for the description messed up, but in context of the book only one person meets that description. What other people are listing are capable fighters, not legendary fighters.
I believe he has three potential shows on the go at the moment (he mentions HBO and Cinemax). One is Captain Cosmos (set in the late 1940’s).
We know he did discuss a Dunk and Egg series with HBO but it’s unknown if this is one of the ongoing projects.
Deesensfan,
It will be ironic because Dany never knew her home really, will fight her whole life to take it back, just get there and then have to sacrifice herself to save a kingdom she loves but never really got to be a part of. Jon is also a reject of the realm, killed by his brothers but will also sacrifice himself to save the realm that also showed him no love.
There will be a lot more to it then that, but that’s my honest guess to the big endgame.
That looks like a clip from the show Reign on the CW network.
OMG, what if Eddard actually didn’t kill Ser Arthur Dayne? He is probably dead, but, what if they set up his death, for any reason, and he is still alive? By the way, it just came to my mind… His sword, Dawn, is said to be bright and made of a fallen star. What if, what if… Lightbringer? Azor Ahai’s sword? What if Dawn and Lightbringer are the same sword, and “the prince that was promised” is actually the prince who is going to reclaim Dawn? I’m not sure about this, it just came to my mind.
Robb Snow,
There is nothing those people at westeros.org can tell us to illuminate matters, and GRRM is embarrassing himself by being in association with those people. The fact that the has failed to repudiate them is a big mark on his character.
Ser Arthur Dayne could fit the description but I’m not convinced,I mean Lyanna and Ned would be crucial there,no casting calls for someone like them.Or any other knights involved.
Someone that fits the description exactly could be Azor Ahai fighting the Others.It’s spot on to the casting call.I could see this happening.
Arthur,
Wow.. that would be hard to watch
Is that your prediction for the end? I like it!!!
hexonx,
Robb Snow,
Ned had respect for Robert who wasn’t exactly the greatest bloke about! Either way, she was betrothed and he was already married so it was an unhonourable thing to do for someone meant to be honourable. These is why I enjoy the Kingsguard stuff. Honour versus morality. Jaime being the prime example of being a man without honour and betraying his brothers in the Kingsguard yet him being the only one who questioned and struggled with what the Mad King did and ultimately did something to stop him.
Ser Florian,
Not arguing that that is the way he’s seen. How important to the plot is he if he’s being featured in a flashback scene. If you can concoct a scenario where anything but Lyanna and Ned’s conversation at the ToJ is relevant to what’s going on in the show then I’d be interested to hear it.
Randos on Reddit have been posting this for the last week. We don’t need top secret sources to know Kit’s been in Belfast occasionally- someone posted a pic of him hanging out with Rose, which indicates their on-off thing is on again. Thing is, the show doesn’t start production until on season 6 until late July so cast won’t be arriving to film S6 until then.
RosanaZugey,
I won’t be able to stop if i start talking about brilliance of sansa’s arc in season 5 just one point about that last scene : what theon did was guaranteed by sansa herself in every chance she got to talk with him she tried to push him out of his reek shell even that last line ( if i’m going to die…) was referred to him so her efforts finally worked.
Honestly there is so much to talk about regarding her storyline in this season maybe later in other threads
I think they will show Jon Snow’s birth at the Tower of Joy and the Legendary Swordsman is Arthur Dayne.
Here’s hoping we’ll see Sean Bean as Ned once more.
Re: Kit
I think the best that D&D could hope for is to make even the book-readers start to have doubts about Jon returning. It seems that they are having some success in that department.
In my mind, there has been too much ground work laid throughout the show in regards to the popular theory about Jon Snow’s role in the story at large to have him just be completely removed from it at this point. I can’t believe that they would waste so much precious screen time only to leave a dump truck load of loose ends.
Despite GRRM’s attempt to create “anti-heroic” fiction, there has to be some positive payoff coming down the road, and not just an endless stream of downer endings (Sansa?) or you risk alienating even your most hardcore fans. George said that “THE ending” would be “bittersweet”, which I imagine is not too unlike JRRT’s LotR (something that Peter Jackson’s movies didn’t quite fully capture IMHO), but there was still plenty to cheer for by the time RotK was winding down.
That’s my take, anyways.
Deesensfan,
This is GoT, there isn’t going to be a happy ending but I bet it’ll be a satisfying one.
Ser Florian,
Does anyone recall if a Blackfyre can ride a dragon?
For Rhaegar maybe, not Dayne. We don’t know what his thoughts were on the matter, he may have been against it.
The Bull,
Thanks, you are right, she is another Lynna Stark looking IMO actress and she is still young (26).
Her name is Adelaide Kane, HBO should contact her agents lol =)
So the outlaws are the Bloody Mummers in reverse, sort of? The Mummers were burning down septs and killing septons, but these new outlaws are doing stuff in the name of religion? The famous knight with a famous sword is basically a direct quote from AFfC about Arthur Dayne, so a flashback…. it’d be interesting if Sean Bean could come back. I suppose if the CGI they’d have to use looked good enough and wasn’t too budget breaking?
Kind of bummed there is no obvious Manderly casting, but perhaps they don’t care if they cast him fat, the second northern lord may be him.
I’d have loved to have seen Lady Dustin, but as she only really interacts with Theon, who’s story has gone beyond that point on the show, I always knew it was a pipe dream.
TheTouchOfFrost,
The Kingsguard are honor-bound to do as their king (or prince in this case) commands, no matter how “dishonorable” it might seem. Jaime rightly broke this vow to save thousands, but in spite of that Ned has nothing but disdain for him for doing what he did.
Conversely, Ned calls Arthur Dayne one of the finest knights he ever knew. So why would he hold Dayne in such high regard even after “kidnapping” his sister while showing nothing but contempt for Jaime?
Sue the Fury,
Ok then … where is Kit´s curtain call? 🙂
The Lord of a Norther Stronghold might be the surviving Lord Cerwyn whose parents were flayed by Ramsey this season. He is a vassal of Winterfell and has a well established reason to be ‘upset’ with the Boltons. I expect a number of the Lord we have already met from the north will also come back to plot together.
The housemaid/nanny may be an aged Wylla who was with Lyanna as her personal maid all along but was left in the care of the Daynes at Starfall by Ned to keep her from being questioned by those at Winterfell.
vhaella,
What books dipshit,we are past the books now in case you haven’t figure it off .
I had an idea about the Warrior swordsman…
Could it be Daemon Blackfyre?
He was a great swordsman with arguably the most famous Valyrian Steel blade in Blackfyre. If they introduce him it would be a connection to Bloodraven and the Great Bastards. It could make for a very important flashback depending on how the next two books/ two seasons pan out…
On the negative side, He was VERY Targaryen so the idea they would cast any ethnicity seems a bit odd….
hexonx,
That’s why i believe sansa is the most misunderstood character in the story why she would want that innocent woman killed?
Hoyti Von Totiy,
nooooooooooo
Dragons were long dead by the time Aegon the Unworthy legitimised Daemon Blackfyre.
Pigeon,
Yeah difference in opinions make everything much more interesting
Ser Florian,
It seems it’s a contest for who is the most imbecile member on this site .
Welcome to the internet! Please enjoy your stay. 😉
KG,
Thank you, again.
Alex,
How on earth would that work if you’re talking about the ToJ?!
hexonx,
Either way, it was still a stain on his honour.
Robb Snow,
Because, quite honestly, Ned is a bit of an idiot! Nice guy but an idiot none-the-less. Not entirely sure why he jumped on Jaime so quickly when he forgave both Dayne and Selmy for fighting on the other side. The Starks and Lannisters never had any
animosity towards eachother until this point ( except perhaps that Cersei was rejected by Rhaegar and Lyanna wasn’t but he’s already married Elia before that). Ned’s assumptions and unwillingness to look into what happened again proves what a dangerous tool for ignorance honour can be.
Darquemode,
Don’t think they’d go into that much detail to be honest. Bloodraven was the last person known to have Dark Sister so maybe a flashback with him in but again not sure of the relevance and he’s not really reknowned as a legendary swordsman.
Well, for one, she’s a Frey. Secondly, it would weaken her enemy.
Yes, well.. As it is now established there seems to be no might about it, Wimsey! What they do is important to the plot or they would not do calling casts for Northern Lords. Give me an I, a M, a P, an O, a R, a T, an A, a N, a T!
You and I remember Budapest very differently…
Part of the book argument back then, was that Northern Lords as a group was important and becoming a stronger voice (you hated protagonist vis a vis Rickon, because it’s not in the “in the box” definition) than the Stark they are looking for to put in Winterfell.
Strangely enough I think Benioff and Weiss sensed that and unknowingly agreed with me. Because instead of them looking for Rickon (the non-developed 6 yr old Stark character with no qualities to root for) or accepting the second string impersonation of Arya Stark in Jayne Pool they have decided to give then a real protagonist instead: Sansa Stark. The real, genuine article. I think I got one right at least!
And since it is Friday, and I like your idea better, I think Sansa & Theon will meet with Davos and this is how he will look for Rickon while the Northern Lords will search for Sansa. Tomorrow we can do a switch.
Speculation at it’s best on the adaptation of a bulletpoint outline. Welcome to my world, Wimsey!!!
That’s the thing with honour and how it can seem (and is) crazy to the modern reader. In Ned’s eyes, Barristan and Arthur Dayne kept their Kingsguard vows and fought for their king until the bitter end. They deserved respect and admiration because of it. That it was the Mad King they fought for didn’t matter to Ned. Jaime, however, betrayed the king he was sworn to protect and broke the White Cloaks’ most sacred vows.
To an honourable man, keeping vows is the most important thing there is. It wasn’t only Ned that looked down upon Jaime; pretty much every honourable man in the Seven Kingdoms thought of him as an oathbreaker and a generally untrustworthy guy. That’s just how it is in these sorts of honour-based social systems.
Yaaas!!! The show was starting to make me doubt myself on the importance of the northern houses and the possibility of a plan to take back Winterfell. But now, I feel so much better!
And how great would it be if the season cold opened on TOJ and the reveal of Jon’s parentage? The cat’s out of the bag on that anyway. No need to save it. It would open the season with a bang and give us hope for Jon, making the potentially long wait for his return more bearable.
Speaking of Rose Leslie, I just saw her in Honeymoon. It was really good. I recommend it. It’s one of those rare horror movies that manages to be scary and suspenseful despite the fact that you can figure out the mystery pretty much right away.
Nope, that’s exactly what she did. She never attempted any politicking or manipulation of anyone. The only thing she tried to do all season was escape, and both of those attempts failed for reasons that didn’t have anything to do with her, so there’s nothing she can learn from it (nor, in one case, does she even know why it failed).
How would Jon be a Blackfyre?
Targaryen Bastards are not called Blackfyre’s that is a name that one particular Bastard took for his own (after the sword his Father the King gave him) and his descendants carried it on as their House name.
In Westeros Targ Bastards were usually named like most bastards with the names Rivers, Sand, Snow Waters etc…
TheTouchOfFrost,
You could be right….
I thought of Bloodraven telling some of history to Bran.
I’ve always felt the great Bastards were going to be more important to the story than simple historic characters and that there will be more bastards than just Jon (assuming he is L+R=J) that figure into the endgame.
Plus, Daemon loved Daenerys I and that love started the Blackfyre Rebellion…
It feels a lot like Rhaegar loving Lyanna and that love starting the Robert’s Rebellion. I think it could fit in flashbacks adding layers of connection to the current state of politic affairs or maybe as a past is prologue type warning maybe.
That said, I’m not sold on the idea either because of the ethnicity listed in the leak and with the streamlining of the story on the series who knows what book details will pop up on the series.
Yes.
marsyao,
You’re so cool bro!!!
Seriously why keep watching a show that constantly insult your precious books? i’m sorry but the only proper answer i can think of is masochism
The reason Sansa didn’t insult Joffrey openly was not for lack of courage, it’s because it’s a ridiculously stupid thing to do.
When the “Walda baby” plot point was introduced, a bunch of people were convinced she was going to use this to manipulate Ramsay, but no, all it was was so that she could insult him and thus look “cool” even though she’s completely powerless and ineffectual (which seems to have been their whole strategy for Sansa this season; put her in a cool black dress and people will be tricked into thinking she’s empowered even though her role has not changed at all).
Damn, I was hoping we’d be seeing The Tower of Joy in a Robert’s Rebellion series 🙁
I just hope and pray that Neil Marshall is directing that episode.
Being fans of Martin and being fans of D&D are not mutually exclusive. You’ll find many, many posters around here who are fans of both.
You’re not anywhere close to the only one.
Nice to see you posting, again, btw. 🙂
The line of succession doesn’t change depending on order of death. A crowned prince’s legitimate earliest-born son (or child, depending on the monarchy rules) becomes the crowned prince when his father dies. Prince George is third in line, after Prince William and Prince Charles, for the throne, and Princess Charlotte is fourth in line. Prince Harry if fifth, and Prince Andrew is sixth.
Edit: Oops. Lots have already said something similar.
Sergei Walankov,
Thank you but who is SHE? i’m a boy and sansa is my top favorite and daughter of winter refer to her
Faceless Frey,
One would think that any casting call for Manderly would note his size, but I’m still crossing my fingers so hard for Wyman and Frey pie.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
It’s coming. We’re staggering them. There are no conspiracies here!
Oh man, I’m all for hearing anything and everything you have to say about Sansa’s arc. 🙂 Its incredibly interesting, and I think when we lay down our expectations and/or disappointments about what we think “should” have happened, we’ll see that it wasn’t actually a bad arc. But you’re probably right…not in this thread. Perhaps they should start threads for each character and just let us speculate and discuss away. 🙂
Anywho, whenever you write that thesis on Sansa’s S5 arc, let me know. I look forward to reading it. 🙂
Keep in mind that some characters may have been cast already, without the need for a casting call. If they know who they want, the role can be offered and accepted without publicity. So I wouldn’t assume a character has been cut because there’s no casting call. For instance they might have already cast Howland Reed, or Victarion Greyjoy, or Maester Marwyn etc, so no need to look further.
Conan,
Thanks. It’s been awhile since I read the books.
Arthur,
True.
Like Michael Culkin for Wyman Manderly!
XD
I would’ve liked to see Sansa pit Ramsay against his father via Walda’s pregnancy, but I guess they just wanted to get Sansa in and out of Winterfell ASAP. Her time with the Boltons will come back into play later though I hope, as the motivating force behind the dagger she drives into Littlefinger’s heart. I honestly feel like the “Red Bedding” and the other abuse she’s received by Ramsay will lead to that moment. Then with the last man trying to use her as a tool out of the way she can truly take control of her own destiny (I hope).
Arthur,
I always felt that
I don’t see that happening though since Jorah has Connington’s Greyscale on the show….
The writers have gone out of their way to completely absolve Littlefinger of responsibility for that, so I doubt it.
And it doesn’t make any sense to have that be the thing that turns Littlefinger against Sansa, instead of his numerous actual crimes against her and her family.
Dandelion,
I think a Robert’s Rebellion series would be tough to do. Especially, since it features so many characters we have already met in GoT.
I do see an animated series based in Westeros way down the line, so perhaps then? Dunk and Egg is a more likely candidate for the first GoT spinoff.
Deesensfan,
Also, why did Kit say he wasn’t coming back Why didn’t he say I cant comment or I don’t know
I think they were really quite clever in a sneaky way with that Kit interview, that interview was done at the end of December or at the start of January. Why would you release such an old interview about such a pivotal subject? They are obviously trying to mislead people here. At the time when they did this interview the scripts for season 6 wasn’t even written yet, so it could actually be very likely that Kit might have thought at that stage that he would not return. They dont receive their plots ahead of time, so you can only comment on what you know at that stage. At that stage the official standing was properly just that Jon Snow is dead.
Just for practical reasons I think it would be strange if they actually just left Kit Harington out of this season. He is one of their top billed actors, they actually invented plot lines for Sansa, Jaime and Brienne so that Sophie Turner, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Gwendoline Christie could be kept around for adequate screen time. The actors properly have certain minimum requirements in their contracts. It would be a bit silly if they had to pay Kit Harington for doing nothing in season 6 if he is actually suppose to return in season 7, and Kit Harington has clearly been walking around in his usual Jon Snow hair and beard.
Please don’t make a GOT spinoff. Poor Linda from Westeros is already heartbroken. I think more adaptations will just finish her off…
Don’t lose hope yet. It could still happen.
Some of my musings on the two Northern Lords
In fact, they could combine one of them with Manderley (whichever one is in the “inside” at Winterfell with the Boltons) insofar as I think both Manderley and Umber have lost relatives to the Freys/Boltons and both have a relative in captivity preventing them from openly fighting the Boltons but whose release would free them up to come out into the open.
Sean C.,
You mean turn Sansa against Littlefinger? Littlefinger lied to her about the Boltons and abandoned her to their unspeakable torments. I’d hold a grudge against Littlefinger for that if I was her. He needs to be held accountable for his role in the horrible things she went through.
Also I don’t think Sansa knows about Littlefinger’s role in the death of her father if that’s what you’re referring too. As far as she knew he’s still in love with her mother and is sympathetic to her own plight as the “last” Stark if nothing else.
Furthermore he turned out to be wrong about Stannis so that’s something else to hold against Littlefinger. He lied to her about pretty much everything and left her to suffer. It’d be foolish for the writers not to factor all of that in during future interactions between her and Littlefinger.
HEY SUE!!!!!
You know what we need? A by-the-season casting list. You could put a icon right at the top with the other items; Home, Forums, etc.
I love the reporting you all do here, but don’t necessarily want to click back through every casting post for the season when I have a question. Having it all on one page would sure be handy.
Just food for thought. Luv you guys and gals.
No, he didn’t lie to her about the Boltons. Again, the writers were explicit that he didn’t know anything about Ramsay’s predilections, and they said it was because Ramsay keeps a low profile.
And the ‘plan’, such as it was, that Littlefinger gave her had options for what would happen if Stannis lost. He never said Stannis absolutely would win, but that the odds favoured him (which they did; he was correct there).
I didn’t mean that she already knows what Littlefinger has done to her family. But she will learn that, at some point, count on it.
So, I’ve been FEELING YOU this whole time. I’ve been downright disheartened at what I initially percieved to be a complete f-up of Sansa’s character and her entire storyline (particularly when it comes to her not manipulating anyone or playing “politics”). But then I thought (just today, actually), what if we have it all wrong? We’re ASSUMING that her destiny (lol…I almost wrote ‘density’. Back to the Future, anyone? ;)) is to be some great manipulating power player, but what if that is not her arc at all? That’s LF’s character that we seem to be projecting onto Sansa. But being close to and “taught by” LF won’t make her LF anymore than being close to and “taught” by Cersei makes her Cersei 2.0. Sansa is unique (and frustrating) in that she retains a lot of her “innocence” and compassion. She still feels things deeply and she still feels for people deeply. It is who she is. That defines her more than any “manipulating” characteristic.
I think this season completed all the ways she could “feel” for people and identify with their pain and struggles. She already knew loss, scorn, mental abuse and humilation. Now she understands–in the flesh–sexual abuse and the depravity that humanity can sink too. And I think it’ll end up being the understanding of those things–and being able to relate to people on those levels–that will ultimately make her a good ruler (whether she rules the North or the IT); not her ability to “manipulate” people. If you take Varys’ speech about what would make a good ruler (in S5E1), and think of Sansa instead of Daenerys…you’ll have a good ruler in Sansa.
Speaking of Daenerys, I’ve always considered the fact that she was essentially sold off (against her will) to Drogo to be the genesis of why she’s against slavery, and why she has so much compassion for slaves (a characteristic that has laid a lot of the foundation for why people thought/think she’ll be a good ruler for Westeros). Her experiencing that shaped her entire arc. Perhaps they’re trying to accomplish the same thing with Sansa now.
Wait….what? You don’t want a history of Westeros as told by the Evil Queen Lindaaaaaa? I just hope and pray Lords Elmo and Kermit get their fair amount if screen time. o_O
Furthermore, I didn’t hear anyone complain about the makeup that Breaking Bad used on Bryan Cranston and Giancarlo Esposito to play 1980s versions of Walt and Gus, even though it was pretty ridiculous-looking and unconvincing. It’s called “suspension of disbelief.”
Sean C.,
Ah, I didn’t know the writers said that (I actually thought Littlefinger might be lying about that at first), and forgot the other part he mentioned about odds. Thanks for refreshing my memory on that.
Darquemode,
Jorah will defy everyone’s expectations and survive the whole damn series because that’s how it all works out in my head. 😉 Eventually he’ll just say “That’s it, I’ve had enough of this crap”, cut through everyone in his path like a boss, and Dany will realize that Drogon is a dragon built for 2. Or he’ll do like you said.
*puts fingers in ears and sings loudly*
I’m so excited to finally see what happens to Jon and to see how Ramsey dies. Man, reaching the end of ADWD was brutal!
Darkstar,
If you scroll to the bottom of the article, under the Facebook/Tweet/Reddit buttons, there are the tags for the article. Clicking one of those will take you to all the articles with that tag. It’s not the best… for example, there’s no link to the “casting” tag on the front page, you have to find an article with that tag and click it, and tagging doesn’t seem to be the most consistent of things (“casting call” tag has this article, and no others, “casting” has this and the previous S6 casting article, along with previous seasons… but I notice there’s no casting speculation articles, or the article about the COTF casting announcement from a few weeks ago under “casting”, but they are under “Casting”).
Not the best, but it’s a start at least, if you’re looking for all the casting articles, say.
Pigeon,
Ha! XD
I feel you.. I have similar wishes for Jaime to survive the series, but… who knows.
I personally wondered if Jorah may end up at the Wall as Lord Commander in the end when I read the books. I have a little different feeling watching Jorah on TV though… Although I would be happy if your scenarios work out! XD
Shane Snow,
I was thinking the green recruit could be
Darquemode,
Considering he’s already saved the lives of 2 of the 3 projected
the least they could do is give the guy a break! 😛
P.S. I also hear you on Jaime. Just because we know better than to hope, doesn’t mean we don’t. LOL.
Couldn’t agree more with this. As a viewer, we blame LF. In the show, I don’t see Sansa’s marriage affecting her relationship with LF at all. They will somehow continue the LF & Sansa storyline from the books. Eventually she will find out about him betraying Ned or the lie about the dagger, but season 5 will not be the reason she turns on him.
I wish it was also announced when past actors were returning. For example, we didn’t know until season 5 aired that Lancel, Kevan, and Yohn Royce were returning for sure. I hope Walder Frey, Edmure, and the Blackfish are back next season.
Mr Fixit,
“It was that white cloak that soiled me, not the other way around.”
Ironically now Jaime is one of only a couple of people in the KG who can claim any kind of honourable intentions in being part of it. I do miss the theme being explored in teh show. The Kingsguard definately and I think Briennes storyline should be more about that than the the cliched sexism theme that it seems to be.
You think Sansa regressed this season? I think the forged-by-fire Sansa of S5E10 is a thousand times stronger than the wheee-I-put-on-a-black-dress Sansa of S4E08.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Not sure what you mean by ‘cliched sexism theme’…
Boudica,
that’s a good explanation and I really hope you are right!
How would LF’s implausible ignorance absolve him of responsibility? I can’t imagine anyone in Sansa’s position not wanting to rip LF’s cock off and rape him with it. She knows he is a schemer and a deceitful murderer. Why would she assume his ignorance was real, and why would it matter anyway? I’d be mad at someone who screwed me over that bad because they didn’t do their basic homework nearly as much as I would be if it was a betrayal.
But yes, I do think that in the books and likely in the show as well, Sansa will somehow learn of LF’s betrayal of her family
Pigeon,
I love Jorah, I feel for him, his love for Dany is so authentic and real and his whole life he has loved something he could never truly obtain.
Arthur,
That would be what I expect to happen, being GoT. At least I’ve gone another year without losing my second favourite character!
I do think there has to be some further purpose to the greyscale…and no, I don’t think his mere presence will infect anyone, as much as I’m sure he’d like to rub his arm in Daario’s face about now. 😛
If they don’t end up killing each other, it could be another great road trip.
TheTouchOfFrost,
I know you can’t stand show-Brienne, but I’m not sure how you can say the theme of honorable intentions is not being explored with her. Damn near every choice she has made has to do with fulfilling her oaths, and if that isn’t honorable, I don’t know what is.
Agreed.
I could see this girl as Lyanna
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3530481152/nm3614913?ref_=nmmi_mi_all_pbl_41
I think if they cast a young Lyanna and Ned for a ToJ flashback they wouldn’t make a casting call for these 2 they would only choose an actor/actresses and call them directly because that would be the biggest scene of the whole series and they would want to keep it a secret as much as possible. HBO know a lot of fans looks at those casting call. They had to do a casting call for Arthur Dayne because finding a great swordsman isn’t easy.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Because, quite honestly, Ned is a bit of an idiot! Nice guy but an idiot none-the-less. Not entirely sure why he jumped on Jaime so quickly when he forgave both Dayne and Selmy for fighting on the other side. The Starks and Lannisters never had any
animosity towards eachother until this point ( except perhaps that Cersei was rejected by Rhaegar and Lyanna wasn’t but he’s already married Elia before that). Ned’s assumptions and unwillingness to look into what happened again proves what a dangerous tool for ignorance honour can be.
You have to look at honour and knighthood from the perspective of the time in which the characters find themselves in, otherwise you wouldn’t really understand their motivations and their actions and you would miss a part of the plot. It is useless to compare knighthood to today’s idea of honour and knighthood.
The Kingsgaurd is a sworn brotherhood just like the Night Watch, they take a vow that they will always obey the King no matter what. Now we have clearly seen through some of Jon’s struggles for example, that it is not always easy to keep some these vows that you are sworn to. But as a soon as you make a vow your honour and duty depended on that vow. Your personal feeling must be set aside completely.
This is always a big struggle for those who take these vows, there is always a balance. do they keep to their oath, or do they make choices based on personal morality. It is not easy, it was properly very difficult for the likes of Barristan Selmy for example, to stand around and do nothing whilst Aerys burned people alive. But for someone like Barristan Selmy his duty demands that he sticks to his vows even in the most difficult positions.
Ned had quite a few very good reasons to distrust the Lannisters. They did not actively take apart in Robert’s rebellion. They only jumped in when the whole rebellion was finished, and Tywin used Pycelle to manipulate Aerys into opening the gates of kings Landing for his army. Aerys thought Tywin was coming to help him. Ned entered the city soon after the Lannister army was unleashed onto Kings Landing. The Lannisters sacked King Landing and in order for them to show their sudden new found support towards Robert, they delivered Elia’s and Rheagar’s children, one of which was just a baby, in bloody cloaks to the throne room. And before that when Ned first stepped into the throne room Jaime was sitting on the throne after he had just killed Aerys.
Ned had a very good reasons not to trust those Lannisters. He had just seen them sack Kings Landing after lying to the King, and he saw them murder some babies and children, and he saw them murdering the old King and neatly aligning themselves to the new King with a proposal of marriage and some gold.
We as the readers or the viewers can understand why Jaime made the right decision to kill Aerys, but look closely at Jaime even he scorns at himself because he knows he broke his vows. The service of your vows and your duty was seen as the highest form of knighthood and chivalry.
Chad Brick,
Sansa has indeed become much more bold this season. She asserted herself as the Lady of Winterfell, called Myranda and Ramsay out on their bullshit several times despite all the torment they’ve inflicted on her, confronted Theon about Bran and Rickon (and learned they’re still alive), and faced the threat of death without flinching. Whether some of these actions are “wise” or not is debatable, but regardless she has a lot more courage and conviction than she had before. So that’s at least some character progression.
Arthur,
His love for Daenerys may be real and authentic, but don’t you find it a bit, I don’t know the word for it…pathetic? He’s a disgraced Knight in both Westeros and Essos, he’s more than 30 years older than she, and he has nothing to offer her. Why would she ever even consider him as a potential love-interest?
I agree with you. I think for a rational person, it is implausible. But In the show, they need to reintegrate the book storyline, so for plot reasons, Sansa isn’t going to react the way you or I would. I think even more implausible than Sansa not blaming Petyr is for us to believe that he wouldn’t have investigated Ramsey more deeply, left a spy at Winterfell, or ensured Sansa’s safety somehow. However, Bryan Cogman stated that LF was unaware of the situation. So that is how the writers of the show choose to explain it.
However, if you look at book plot, there are also a few things that LF has done to Sansa directly and things that she heard Lysa say that would cause most people to not trust him. In the recent TWOW Alayne chapter she is on board with his plan, so there you go.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
The thing is, I think it goes beyond the type of crush on a beautiful young woman. What he told Tyrion about seeing her come out of the flames with her baby dragons – I think THAT was a turning point for him, to want to be a part of her journey and rise to power, not just making googly eyes at khaleeeeeeesi (notice she’s letting him call her that once again…).
He has been pathetic – look how he willingly let his former wife used him to the point of ruin and shame. He has something bigger to fight for now, however. He knows as well as anyone that he isn’t going to ‘get’ her in that way.
He’s also now saved her life on more than one occasion, Tyrion’s as well, and was the victor in Daznak’s pit. He has a lot to offer
Since it seems that Northern lords are being cast, I would like one of them to give us this speech:
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Well, you got to ask yourself this, why has Jorah become a disgraced Knight?
And the answer is something like this:
Because he grows infatuated and desperately in love with a beautiful young woman way to easily to the point of it being his main character fault.
GRRM always does this kind of thing, he turns a character’s strength to a weakness and vice versa.
So because of that fact, I think he will use Jorah’s blind and (like you said) pathetic devotion to satisfy Dany to a GoT type level,
mariamb,
One of my favourite monologues!
Pigeon,
OMG such a good point, so on top of him being a total sucker/softy for a beautiful young woman to the point of fault, he has seen this woman come out of a fire pyre and ride away on a dragon… That has to amplify his infatuation 100x.
Shit, honestly, I think most guys would be pathetic around Dany.
You know, I’m always slightly surprised when people who have read the books first root for Jorah as a romantic love interest for Dany. I found Jorah pushy and controlling in his love for Dany. And he was so much older than her and unattractive to her. There were definitely times in the book that I found Jorah gross and pathetic. But we all interpret things differently, especially with this particular series.
I never feel that way about Jorah in the TV show. TV Jorah seems like a better person. They give each other these loving glances and Ian Glen is handsome and not pushy with her, so it kind of changes their dynamic. I still don’t want them together, but I don’t find him pathetic.
mariamb,
Wow, I remember that!
If D&D don’t take that from the book and put it right there on TV that be a real shame, that should be the damn audition tape!
Pigeon,
Yes, he has something to offer her in terms of serving her, but I don’t think he has anything to offer her as a romantic interest. I agree, his feelings for her go far beyond a crush; he’s in love with her. His wildest dream is for her to return that love. You say he knows he’s not going to “get her in that way,” but I think he’s still trying; he still holds out some hope. It’s like everything he does he does in hopes it will make her love him. In fact, him being so in love with her is one of the reasons I didn’t want her to accept him back in her service. Men who are that far gone will do crazy things and make bad decisions. I know there are a lot of major Jorah fans, I just don’t happen to be one of them. He’s too stalkerish, at least in my view.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
And there you have it.
Every person defines their own personal motivation, the thing they think about the most that pushes and drives them forward. You know what I mean?
For Jorah, his motivation is to serve Dany and make her happy anyway he can in the dream that someday she will return that love, I think he knows it will never happen and is happy just to be by her side, but that will not stop Jorah from trying.
I just want to say, I think Iain Glen does a stellar job in the role. My feelings about the character are not meant to take anything away from his great work. My feelings are probably also informed by some of my own experiences. No, I’m not claiming to be some stunningly beautiful woman in a position of great power…hahaha.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Haha!
We know what you mean, I agree Jorah is a Dany fanatic… That is not good and I bet Dany feels awkward around him in many ways.
But at the same time, he is not the type of fanatic that would ever force himself on her, peep at her or do anything purposely that would make her feel uncomfortable.
He just wants to serve her and be beside her, he would die for her. Of course he wishes someday she will return the love interest but he knows that will never happen but he still persues it because that’s what motivates his character, that’s what he feels is his purpose.
As a woman, I found his expression of his feelings in the books off putting to say the least.
Are you talking about the books or the show? Because he has been inappropriate with her and made her uncomfortable in the books.
I wonder if they’re thinking of introducing any of the northern mountain clans, Big Bucket, The Flint et al?
Aisling,
I am talking about the show, in the books I was neutral to Jorah but in the show I love him.
What did he do in the books that was not gentlemanly? I forget to be honest.
No one does the forlorn look like Iain Glen. So damn poignant! Probably my favourite GoT actor.
mariamb,
I don’t usually care whether or not iconic dialogue from the books makes it into the show, but that speech is fantastic – definitely one of my favorite excerpts from ADWD. I would love to see one of the Northern Lords recite that monologue while pledging their loyalty to Sansa and/or Rickon. It wouldn’t be Hugo Wull, but that’s just fine – those words would sound every bit as badass coming from an Umber.
Darkstar,
Look for the Game of Thrones wiki for that. Just search “season 6” and all the castings are listed there, with links to the WOTW articles.
Mr Fixit,
Arthur,
An amazing monologue!
And I want to hear it on TV just like that.
I don’t remember the exact quotes but 2 things come to mind: When she was wearing the dress with one breast out in Qarth she noticed he kept peeping glances at her boob. Also Jorah came to her room when she was naked with only a lionskin covering her and kissed her.
Queenofthrones,
Agreed. Hopefully (and judging by these casting calls) they will do Sansa justice and have her begin the Northern resistance next season.
Arthur,
I don’t know. She seems to have at least some affection for him, though not in the way he does for her. He’s been at her side for many years. I think she might see him as a bit of a father figure. She seemed pretty hurt by his betrayal, nearly to the point of tears at some moments. You don’t feel that way about just anyone in your service who betrays you. She also seems overcome with emotion when Jorah offers her his hand after helping rescue her from the Sons of the Harpy.
I guess we’ll see. I have this sinking feeling that there will be a confrontation between Jorah and Daario on the way to rescue Dany. If Jorah ends up killing Daario then I think he’ll have to lie to her and betray her trust once more. It will be unpleasant to see.
Colty,
Yep, I was thinking that when I saw Septon Maribald’s name. Knowing where Sansa is might save Brienne’s neck.
mariamb,
You know, there is a book called ‘Njal’s Saga’ and its FULL of really cool quotes like that.
You should give it a go, its a simple fast read and it is all based on historical fact.
Mr Fixit,
Basically the people don’t think she can do stuff because she’s female. Oh look she’s beating guys! It’s like the standard stock of a sitcom! I thought the books did a good job of disregarding her gender to a certain degree and focused more on her refusal to give up and her changing relationship with honour. Stubborn , naive Brienne was a lot more endearing and interesting than superwoman Brienne.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
It’s surface stuff though. We’re not getting the self-doubt and the questioning of honour and what it means. I would rather they’d have shelved the action sequences they forced into her storyline and focused more on that. I think they’re playing her too hard. They need a finer balance of strength but self-doubt and naivity. I mean it may work for some people but I’m finding her increasingly annoying and just can’t warm to her at all.
Boudica,
I get that and understand why the characters think the way they do but I think following orders unquestioningly is a dangerous road to go down so feel some empathy with characters like Jaime and Mance who broke those vows for valid reasons but get looked down on because of said honour code.
Seems unfair the Lannisters get such disdain for that tactic when the Tyrells did exactly the same thing only completely indecisiveily! The Mad King had done his best to spite Tywin based almost solely on the fact that he was such an efficient Hand that people claimed he ran the kingdom. This jealously led to him insulting their honour by turning down a proposed marriage between Cersi and Rheagar, allowing Jaime to serve inthe Kingsguard denying Tywin of his heir and keeping Jaime as a pet/almost hostage to try and keep his father in check. Aerys should have listened to the Rains of Castamere a bit more closely. The North started the war based on a similar personal issue as opposed to an idealistic one. I think Jaime’s “By what right does the wolf judge the lion” line is pat here. As if you take away the ‘honour’ then was there any real difference between what the Lannisters and Starks did , or even between what Jaime and Robert did? I understand why the Starks, etc felt the way they did but honour is a bit like religion in that people use a rigid framework to maek sense of things which doesn’t take the details into acccount effectively.
Njal’s saga is fantastic. I believe it’s Icelandic in origin
Arthur,
Thanks! I will give it a try.
mariamb,
It is known as the most powerful Icelandic saga. It is one of those tales that were told around the fires in praise and verse and later translated and wrote down by monks.
In Iceland women were equal with men and that had the first form of how we perceive “Law” today.
I love that book, compared to GoT it is a really fast and easy read but the characters in it are so rich and powerful and all have their own flaws (Like character’s in GRRM books).
RosanaZugey,
I would so love to read that as well. We need people who really do apreciate the show to tell us why!
I too apreciated Sansas arc in season five and i felt it made that storyline so much more emotional, with sansa instead of jeyne pool. It is not my favorite storyline of season 5 (which was so utterly amazing), it was very dark and gloomy and less flashy than others and had less of an in-your-face-ending like Stannis dying, arya loosing her eyes and Cerceis walk. It’s much more of a symbolic ending, the two of them holding hands and jumping out into nothing, and I loved that! A very important arc for the both of them! And I see Sansas wedding-sequence (the whole thing, from myranda bathing her to the wedding night) to be one of the shows’ best ever! I am one of those who love the books and show equally, but I would choose D&D’s season 5 sansa-arc to her A feast for crows/dance arc anyday of the week. As I would also choose the winterfell storyline with sansa to the same storyline with jeyne poole.
The role of Priestess
High Priestess of the Red Temple talking to (I guess) Tyrion and Varys.
Looks like
really is dead.
Ross,
Kingswood Brotherhood, more like it.
mariamb,
I found a good review of ‘Njal’s Saga’ for you to look through if you’re really interested.
Everyone on this site, I can say with great confidence will love this book. It’s like GoT but for realzz.
http://www.bebetterstudios.com/blog/2013/01/25/a-review-of-njals-saga/
There was no “redemption” arc in the books. A redemption arc requires that a character actively think that he/she can make up for past wrongs in some way by doing some thing or things. Theon/Reek never thinks that he can right his wrongs. He never thinks that doing something for faux Arya will somehow atone for other things. All he thinks about is how he used to be Theon and now he is Reek. He does think about how a Hero would do thing, and how different it would be in a story: but, again, he doesn’t think anything except that that’s not how it really goes.
The really big difference between TV and show is almost opposite of this criticism. In the books, Theon is cajoled, extorted and essentially forced to carry out with the plan. On screen, Theon himself initiates the key scene by killing Psycho Kennel Lady. (Sansa, for her part, initiates the initiation by refusing the back down to Ramsay’s girlfriend: and that shows how far her character has evolved, too.)
Now, was Theon supposed to be thinking that this made up for everything? I doubt it: but it certainly communicated “snap” pretty well.
The big question for us is, which way will they run? Towards a Vale army
or north in search of Bran & Rickon? It’s still Friday, so I’m still leaning towards the latter! 😉
Conan,
Interesting. So
Very clever, though it could easily backfire on them. I like that actress also, she does the part well.
Aisling,
Chad Brick,
Why is Littlefinger’s ignorance implausible? How would people in Kings Landing know anything about what happens in the Dreadfort? The only one who might know anything would be Varys, as he seems to have spies throughout the Kingdom. However, LF’s network was largely confined to Kings Landing, and thus his knowledge is largely confined to those parts of the kingdom that have constant traffic through Kings Landing. As both the show and books make pretty clear, that means that LF would know little and less about much of the North.
Indeed, I would argue the opposite: it would be pushing credulity for LF to know much about what the Boltons got up to doing. The Northerners keep their secrets from the Southerners, and the Boltons seem to keep their secrets from other Northerners. LF is well informed, particularly about goings-on in Kings Landing: but well informed is well, well short of omniscient, and his information network is not evenly distributed throughout the kingdom.
Wimsey,
I get that he wouldn’t automatically know about Ramsey. However, what is implausible to me is that he would make the arrangements for Sansa to marry someone without deeper investigation or contingency plans. He is suspicious of everyone. I find it hard to believe that his character would leave an important piece to his plans alone with dangerous people.
Same thing should happen in the books
And yeah she would be good in the part.
Sympathiser #2 confirmed.
GET HYPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
No, I completely understand your point, and I think there’s a fine line between ‘devoted’ and ‘creeper’.
Book Jorah is more on the creeper side, the guy who won’t take no for an answer (although still a valuable advisor, formidable fighter, and Dany has thoughts of ‘maybe I should have…’ towards him).
Show Jorah has benefited greatly from Iain Glen. I am biased from having been a long time fan of Glen, it’s true. However, his looks (let’s face it, he’s a handsome man and nothing like the description of Jorah in the novels), voice, and ability to act with his expressions alone (when he sees the greyscale, hears about Jeor, sees Dany again in the practice pit, offers his heart in his hand in reconciliation) make you just want something good to happen to the man. Even the fact that he openly admitted to Dany that he was a slaver and was cast out by Ned.
Jorah has nothing to lose now, and I feel as though he has proven to have redeemed himself about 10 times by now. I will be hugely surprised and disappointed if he kills Daario unless he threatens Dany.
Arthur,
!!!!!! I read Njal’s Saga as part of my Classics degree, I am thrilled to hear others here have read it! (If you think Thrones has a lot of characters, give this a whirl! Lol) There is one memorable scene of a character ‘skating’ across ice that I particularly remember. 😛
You’re right, we don’t get that so much in terms of actual dialogue. However, I feel like we get a great deal of it through Gwendoline Christie’s body language and facial expressions, at times. I know you feel like they’ve turned her into superwoman, and I know I’m not going to change your mind. I think, though, we see her vulnerability, her self-doubt, her putting on a brave and determined face for Pod (not that she isn’t brave and determined, but I feel like she overplays those aspects, at times, as a means of compensating for her self-doubts) and when combined with her physical prowess, I think it makes for a rich and many-layered character.
While I’m going to guess killing Stannis, and thus fulfilling that oath, will give her temporary confidence, that will all be stripped away as soon as she realizes that in going after Stannis, she missed Sansa’s signal. How she deals with that remains to be seen. I look forward to seeing how it plays out!
mariamb,
Wow – which character made that speech? It’s wonderful, and yes, I would like to hear a North man saying those words! I, too, have come to want Bolton blood, and Frey blood as well. I think if I heard a character give this speech, I would stand up and cheer in my living room.
Darn GRRM. He can write some excellent, inspiring prose, there’s no doubt about that. He knows that, his editors know it. But neither he nor his editors seem able to get him to contain himself and not meander all over the place. His characterizations are excellent; never have I grown so fond of so many “secondary” characters. But I had such difficulty following the threads of the sheer number of characters he kept plopping into the story at the beginning of book 4, I had to quit.
I know some of you more avid and dedicated book readers who have finished the last two books might call me a wuss, but I just couldn’t. And I don’t think I’m a dummy or unable to follow the written word. I love hearing a condensed version from all of you, though. I wasn’t one of those who complained about spoilers, I went and looked for them. Just couldn’t finish the book.
Anyway, yeah, I hope they use that passage, or something very close, and I hope to goodness SOMEbody spills some Bolton and Frey blood this year. It’s way past due.
How does one apply to be considered for the role? Its been my dream forever to be a part of this, even if its as an extra or anything.. How do you… even get a chance? I want to submit my picture or be available to them at least… anyone know?
Fancy word for a sellsword,
The problem with D&E is it is a linear plot following the same two characters, who meet others on their journey, not multiple arcs like in GoT. D&E would make a better limited 12 episode anthology show, with 4 episodes covering each novella.
The GoT spin-off will be one of original invention, probably with Bryan and GRRM brainstorming for an idea. Also HBO does not have the rights for D&E, GRRM kept that, but HBO owns the tv and film rights to George’s world of ASoIaF (excluding D&E), so they can produce anything they desire.
Methinks they stay right there in Winterfell (which would mean they run, but get captured relatively quickly, or they break their legs from the jump and never even leave). However, I think before anything terrible happens to either of them, the Vale Army will come and defeat the Boltons.
I don’t know, but I just feel like its imperative that she stay in Winterfell. And if she doesn’t actually stay in Winterfell then my vote is that they find refuge with a Northern Lord. Either way, I think Sansa stays in the North.
Side note, why do people keep assuming Brienne will go to the Riverlands? Why would she do that? For what? Her only job is to protect Sansa. Sansa is in the North and whether she stays in Winterfell or goes to a Northern Lord, she’ll still be in the North. Brienne isn’t going to just up and leave her to go to the Riverlands especially since (I’m going to assume) she’ll see the candle has been lit once she finds her way back to her “stare-spot”. I’m thinking for all of the Northern storylines we’re going to have to start thinking outside of the box, because a lot of the stories/circumstances up there have been dramatically altered and by logic cannot play out exactly like the books.
Holy winds of winter spoilers! I have no idea who any of these ppl might be, sounds almost like casting for outlander characters. Best guess is a few will be there to help amp up the Starks reemergence/show version of the northern conspiracy
In the very same plotline, Littlefinger has tons of information about what’s happening at the Wall. And regardless, even if he didn’t know much about Ramsay beforehand, he would investigate him thoroughly before initiating a stupendously risky plan that hinges on knowledge of Ramsay’s character.
If they don’t do a flashback, who is the legendary fighter? Ser Barristan and Jaime were the only ones that really qualified as legendary on the show, and now Barristan is dead and Jaime is half the man he used to be.
The only other name I can think of would be Garlan Tyrell, but we’ve gotten no hint of other Tyrell brothers on the show, have we? Plus, I don’t know if the Tyrells have a famous sword in the family? (Have they officially said that Loras is the only male in the family on the show?)
So, I would think we’ll be getting The Sword of the Morning.
And, if they cast a younger Ned Stark, they could use that same actor to transition to a prequel type show in the future?
Except for the Dread Pirate Roberts.
Thronetender,
My husband read the books before the show came out and struggled to finish AFFC. He hasn’t even read ADWD because he found the 4th book such a slog. He doesn’t care about spoilers and just has me tell him what happened. He’s an intelligent, educated man but feels the same way you do about the multiple plot threads and secondary characters.
As you wish!
And what would he find out? That Ramsay is a bastard son of Roose Bolton who shares his family’s ancestral way of dealing with enemies. He would learn that Ramsay treats his enemies, and the enemies of the new Warden of the North, very harsh indeed. Which, you know, isn’t exactly unheard of among the high lords. How does Tywin treat his enemies? How many families did he exterminate?
And what else would Littlefinger find out? Nothing at all since no one knows that Ramsay likes to hunt, torture, and flay random people for sport.
LS dead-enders… still haven’t given up hope. LOL
you snow nothin’,
Ha! XD
” Oh, there’s something I ought to tell you…. I’m not left-handed either.”
– Dread Pirate Roberts
Conan,
Awesome! Thank you!
A full transcript for those who are interested. Assuming the video is legit, POTENTIAL Season 6 spoilers under the tags.
Tyrion: “Welcome to Meereen. That’s about the extent of my Valyrian. Do you mind if we continue in Common?”
*Kinvara nods*
Tyrion: “Thank you for traveling all this way. I know from personal experience how uncomfortable the journey can be. The truth is, we need your help. Our hope is that we can persuade you to …”
Kinvara: “You want my priests to convince the Meereenese that the city’s conqueror is the people’s savior.”
Tyrion/Varys: “We prefer liberator to conqueror.”
Kinvara: “You don’t have to persuade me of anything. I came to help. Daenerys Stormborn is the One Who Was Promised. From the fire, she was reborn … to remake the world.”
Tyrion: “Yes.”
Kinvara: “She freed the slaves from their chains and crucified the Masters for their sins.”
Tyrion/Varys: “She did indeed.”
Kinvara: “Her dragons are fire made flesh. A gift from the Lord of Light. But you’ve heard all of this before, haven’t you? On the Long Bridge of Volantis? The dragons purify nonbelievers by the thousands, burning their sins and flesh away.”
Tyrion/Varys: “Ideally, we’d avoid purifying many non-believers. The Mother of the Dragon has followers from many different faiths.”
Kinvara:“You want your queen to be worshiped and obeyed. And while she’s gone, you want her advisors to be worshiped and obeyed.”
Tyrion: “I’d settle for obeyed.”
Kinvara: “I will summon mummers and appoint priests. They will spread the word. Daenerys has been sent to lead the people against the darkness … for this war, and the Great War yet to come.”
Varys: “That sounds excellent. A man named Stannis Baratheon was appointed as the Chosen One by one of your priestesses. He too had a glorious destiny. He attacked King’s Landing, and was soundly defeated by the man standing beside me. Last I heard, he’d been defeated again. This time at Winterfell … and this time for good.”
*Kinvara turns her head as if responding to a new speaker, implying that Tyrion is the one who speaks the next line*
Tyrion: “We are grateful for any support you can provide during this trying time.”
*Kinvara turns her head back – Varys speaking again?*
Varys: “I suppose it is hard for a fanatic to admit a mistake. Isn’t that the whole point of being a fanatic? You’re always right. Everything is the Lord’s will.”
Kinvara: “Everything is the Lord’s will. Men and women make mistakes … even honest servants of the Lord.”
Varys: “And you? An honest servant of the Lord? Why should I trust you any more than the priestess who counseled Stannis?”
Tyrion: “My friend has a healthy skepticism of religion, but we’re all loyal supporters of the Queen.”
Kinvara: “Everyone is what they are and where they are for a reason. Terrible things happen for a reason. Take what happened to you, Lord Varys**, when you were a child. If not for the mutilation by the second rate sorcerer, you would not be here, helping the Lord’s Chosen bring light into this world. Knowledge has made you very powerful … but there is still so much you don’t know. Do you remember what you heard, the night the sorcerer tossed your parts into the flames? Should I tell you what the voice said? Should I tell you the name of the one who spoke or where it lives?”
*Kinvara laughs. Clearly, she has successfully unsettled Varys*
Kinvara: “We serve the same queen. If you are a true friend, you have nothing to fear from me.”
*Kinvara turns and departs*
From my perspective, this sounds like a pretty damn cool scene. The writing is really good, and so is the actress. I wouldn’t object to seeing her actually win the role.
Jared,
Assuming that text is legit, would this be the first time on the show that the “One Who Was Promised” is mentioned? (I don’t remember if Melisandre used this phrase for Stannis)
Conan,
Thanks for the link!!
Jared,
Thanks for the transcription!
I haven’t been able to listen to it yet due to where I am so it’s nice to read the text.
<a href="mailto:rasmushejse@hotmail.com">rasmushejse@hotmail.com</a>,
Agh! I wrote a response to this but then closed the browser on my phone and it deleted it. 🙁 Will try again…
Jared,
Thank you so much for the transcript.
Conan,
More interesting in that she uses the phrase ‘fire turned flesh’ which is a Quaithe quote. Could we be seeing the return of Quaithe?
“ They shall come day and night to see the wonder that has been born again into the world, and when they see they shall lust. For dragons are fire made flesh, and fire is power.”
Her and Melisandre are both shadowbinders from Asshai so it makes sense if they are fighting for the same cause. She’s also very much tied into Dany’s story and has popped up in it a number of times. Would also make more sense to use her as she’s been introduced to the viewers and has a distinctive look. Thought Laura Pradelska did a decent job as her though so not sure why the need for a recast…although it would be an easy one with the mask.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Who are you referring to? What season is this
Simeon,
Before people cry foul on the apparently arbitrary change, I’ll say that I actually think it makes sense. As many people have pointed out, the Valyrian word for “Prince” is actually gender-neutral, but that fact would need to be explicitly explained within the show. Tweaking the prophecy so that it refers to “The One Who Was Promised” would afford the show greater license to perpetuate the mystery. Is the prophesied savior Daenerys? Jon? A combination? Someone else entirely?
What means does LF have for “deeper” investigations? Nobody who knows anything about Ramsay is anywhere the LF could find. Moreover, the effort to find such people would not just take time, but also possibly call attention to what LF is doing: and (for his own purposes) he does not want Cersei or anyone at KL to learn what he is doing.
As for “contingency” plans, what is left? Remember, this whole plan is equivalent to a “hail of Mary” play in American football (i.e., where the ball is just thrown across the field in hopes of someone catching it near the end-zone). The armies of the north were wiped out at the Crossings. Anything left of the Northern nobility certainly is not going to treat with a no-name southerner like Littlefinger. The Vale lords might be eager to fight the Lannisters, but what do they care about Winterfell?
Now, LF obviously has his own agenda, too: but if there were a better way to advance it, then he would use that. Remember, LF has been around: and someone like Ramsay is probably going to be an eager-to-please, starstruck youth too desperate to prove that he belongs with the nobility to do much more than be agreeable. This is a world where upward mobility is very hard: and those with a chance to do so often are absurdly obsequious. After all, just look at how hard LF had to try to please, and he came from lesser nobility!
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
See I think that’s the problem. She’s not got any depth at the moment and I think Christie ( not her fault if that’s what’s abeing asked for) is playing her evermore robotic. Also find the whoe ‘she’s all that’ thinig with Renly really shallow motivation for the chracter. Didn’t she have a go at Jaime for not dealing with real world problems after he’d had his hand chopped off yet one of her initial motivators is that some boys laughed at her because she’s ugly?! Don’t think her and Pod have any chemistry whatsosever so endless scenes this season and last of them sitting around campfires talking about not much of anything are quite dull. She’s meant to be tough not hard. There’s no warmth from the character at all for me and most of the charactersitics that endeared me to her have been neglected.
Jared,
Thanks for taking the time to transcribe that. If it’s legit., it would be a very interesting scene. However, I didn’t like the reading that actress gave. I’m also skeptical regarding it’s legitimacy given we know Tyrion speaks more Valyrian than this scene suggests. Nevertheless, I do appreciate Conan posting it, and you transcribing it for all of us, and maybe it is legit!
Jared,
Deesensfan,
The Quaithe quote is from the books but she said something very similar if not the same in season 2.
Assuming that’s an actual leak from the next season, I find it interesting that Tyrion is doing what Cersei tried to do: use religious groups as a means to their ends. Let’s see if it works out better for Tyrion then it did for Cersei.
Of course LF knows what is happening at the Wall. Everyone does. The Wall sends tons of information to KL and the rest of the world about what is happening there. After all, the Night’s Watch wants people to know what is happening there: they depend on it for people to send them supplies and more thieves, rapists and 9th sons. So, LF knowing that stuff means nothing more than he’s paying any attention.
The Boltons send no information to KL or the rest of the world about who they are or what they are doing. The Boltons do not want other northerners (particularly the Starks) knowing what they do, and they certainly stand nothing to gain from letting the southerners know anything about what they do.
Now, maybe Varys has “little birds” in the Dreadfort, and maybe he heard something about Ramsay. However, Varys also has had many, many more years to create spy networks and more reason to be concerned about the entire kingdom than has LF. Moreover, Varys clearly does not share everything with LF anymore than LF shares everything with Varys: and both the show and the books make it clear that both learn things that the other one does not.
However, I would not be too sure about even Varys knowing these things. If anyone would be paranoid and secretive enough to route out Varys’ little bird network, then it would be Roose Bolton. (In the books, Varys did have a spy network in Winterfell: but they might well have been exterminated by Theon and/or Ramsay as Varys says that he has heard nothing from them since Theon’s fall.)
TheTouchOfFrost,
Who said it in season 2? Melisandre?
Deesensfan,
Quaithe did to Jorah in Qarth.
TheTouchOfFrost,
You mean her initial dedication to Renly because he showed her such kindness way back when? Maybe my memory is going wonky on me, but isn’t that from the books? I don’t find that in the least bit shallow as the initial inspiration for her devotion to Renly. I also don’t see her as hard, at all. I see her as tough, but any hardness in my view is a veneer.
It’s fine you see her as you do, and I see her as I do. We’ll never agree on her, and that’s ok, too.
I hope we can agree it will be interesting to see where she goes from here, but maybe we won’t agree on that, either, since it seems like you’d rather just not see anymore of her on the show. If that’s the case, all I can say is to each their own.
Ugh! Every single post I’ve made today has given me a timed-out message, first. Fortunately, when I back click, I haven’t lost the post, but this doesn’t usually happen.
It sounds like a really good scene too. And I was expecting something from the Red Priests/Priestesses of Volantis after the scene in Season5. By the way,
1: In S3E10, Walder Frey was already suspicious of Ramsay’s behavior at Winterfell, implying that word of Ramsay’s behavior had already leaked out of the north as far back as S3.
2: In S4, Ramsay flayed 60+ men at Moat Cailin, which was abetted and witnessed by hundreds of Bolton soldiers. Note that Moat Cailin is at the southern border of the North, making it difficult for rumor of such events to stay confined north of the neck.
3: By early S5, where Ramsay discusses how he flayed a minor lord of a tax dispute, the Boltons had been in control of the north for more than a season and something like a year of in-universe time. Do you really think this was the first time he engaged in such behavior?
4: Reek, and all torture embedded in him, is something Ramsay has been publically flaunting for the same year or so
5: Book Ramsay was even worse, and started the public torture/fear campaign as far back as ACOK.
6: The book Boltons used a mix of fear, the authority of the crown, and hostages to control the north. The TV Boltons have dismissed the second as worthless and thrown it in the trash, and no mention has ever been made of hostages in the show. So what is left? Fear. And fear is public by design.
Yes, D&D tried to paper-over their plot hole by by making LF ignorant of something that was public knowledge two seasons ago. Most watchers immediately smelled the fart, but that stink has long ago diffused. It is mostly irrelevant anyway, as Sansa should hate LF regardless, and LF is clueless about what happened in Winterfell either way. That’s all that really matters for the forward plot. Sansa’s opinion on the relative chances that LF was evil or stupid in this particular instance really doesn’t matter much.
I find it funny in that Red Priestess audition tape, it is clear that Varys got information from the North all the way to Meereen within the span of a few episodes, yet people are claiming LF was unclear about what had been going on next door for years.
Wimsey,
I see it as a Hail Mary move. Totally. It is an opportunity with time constraints due to the changing weather and the change in political situation in KL. LF wants to move the Vale army into the North unopposed. That means Roose needs to let him through Moat Cailin and Cersei can’t have a reason to send her own army to block him. (She revealed to him that she doesn’t have the means to do so n any case.) I get all that and I’m choosing to suspend my disbelief and roll with it. But LF needs Sansa on his team. Even if he does not care for her in any way, he still needs her to want to stay aligned with him… which means keeping her safe. I just believe his character would have bribed someone to be a spy for him at least. So far it seems like he just dumped her there with no plan. That is what troubles me.
Conan,
Gorgeous girl. It sure seems legit. Why do you think she’d post it publicly if she wanted a chance at the role, though?
Heh, oh, in reality, I am sure that LF would have done so, or tried to do so. However, I am equally sure that LF’s informant would have been dead within hours of LF’s departure! One thing that the show makes clear is that Roose could throw LF a lot further than he trusts LF! However, neither LF nor Ramsay nor Roose are lead characters: so it would have been a huge digression to show such things. One thing that the show has been good about is not getting bogged down in tertiary details that lead nowhere.
Jared,
yeah we always get a couple videos turning up on vimeo. This looks like the first so far this year. I do think it’s legit. Sounds like the priestess from the first casting call. http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-season-6-casting-has-begun-and-heres-the-list
TheTouchOfFrost,
Thanks!!!
I wonder if the “Father” character will be Lord Tytos Blackwood. Could be introduced to give context to Bloodraven’s background.
If Euron is a greenseer, that would be three on the show in season 6. The season of greenseers. Plus with Varymyr as a warg, and maybe seeing Rickon and Arya as wargs, it sets up Jon’s return.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
The line about Tyrion’s knowledge of Valyrian stuck out to me as well, but I moved past it. If Tyrion considers this conversation important and isn’t confident in his rusty language skills, it makes sense to me that he would look for a pretense to shift into speaking the common tongue so he could project a greater degree of confidence. Furthermore, there’s no real reason that the conversation needs to be in Valyrian – for either the characters or the audience. Forcing the actors to memorize speeches of that length in a fake language for no reason would be torture.
I acknowledge the very real possibility that this audition tape may be fake, but if it is, it’s a relatively elaborate fake. I’ve learned never to underestimate the depths that some people will go to troll others, but in this case, I thought transcribing it was a relatively harmless endeavor. If it turns out to be nothing, it cost me ten minutes. I’ve wasted far longer than that on speculation that turns out to be wildly off-base before. 🙂
To me at least, this alleged tape seems to have more in common with the leaked audition tapes for Styr and Obara from previous seasons that were later confirmed to be legitimate. The dialogue does sound like it’s in keeping with the style of the show, I count the level of detail is a point in its favor. By contrast, there was an audition tape floating around last year that was allegedly for Quentyn Martell. It surfaced after the main Dornish roles had been announced, but before it was confirmed Quentyn had been cut. The dialogue in that tape was off and the “actor” was absolutely awful. Unsurprisingly, it was quickly debunked as a hoax.
Sue the Fury,
That was my guess as well. It’s exciting that we’re less than a week removed from the finale of Season 5 and – thanks primarily to your sources – we already have this much information on which base our speculation about Season 6!
Wimsey,
I agree. 😉
Who’s to say Jon’s not a bastard? The theory can easily be true without making Jon heir to the throne.
That is incorrect. Frey asks Bolton what really has happened because no word has gotten out since Ramsay took over. And Roose gives him a wonderful non-answer. But the big point is that Ramsay has effectively stopped all word of his doings. Both show and books hint that the Boltons are really good at doing that.
How would word of it get south? The Iron Born aren’t talking. The Bolton’s aren’t taking survivors. Besides, why would the southerners take any notice? On the off chance that any word of this leaked out, doesn’t it just sound like the Northern Barbarians and the Iron Island Savages just were being their usual horrid and uncivilized selves?
Given Roose’s smack-down on it, yes. But, again, why would word of this get south? What do the southerners care? Why would the northerners complain to the southerners?
One key thing to remember that both the book and show emphasize is that the north is big and empty. Historically, things that happen in big and empty places happen without anyone else hearing about them.
Man, this is classic false equivalency. Varys, who has a much vaster and older spy network than does LF, knows about one of the few things that the Boltons would be actively bragging about to the rest of the world (you can be sure that ravens were sent to KL about this), and that means that LF should know about things that the Boltons are tying to keep secret?
Of course, it also is possible that Varys had spies in Stannis’ army that survived: on both book and show, Varys clearly saw Stannis as a big threat to his ambitions; however, even if all of those spies died, then his KL spies would have heard about Stannis’ fall if only when everybody else in KL heard about it: and absolutely everyone would hear about that.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
I didn’t really care for how Brienne was portrayed in season 4, as she was so harsh towards Pod which I felt was out of character for her. But I think this season they have tried to show what’s underneath her initial harshness. I like her and don’t mind that she kills favorite male characters.
Indeed, assuming that it is true, then the important point is the “blood.”
By the way, Fridays are not just my “Sansa and Theon are gong Rickon Shopping” day: they are my “Don’t worry, Jon will be back” day.
But Tyrion’s High Valyrian is a little a rusty. In Mother’s Mercy, he said “nostril” instead. Missandei had to gently correct it. He probably doesn’t want to take a chance with the High Priestess.
This is my take on Brienne as well. I don’t see her as hard. I see it as a show she puts on, in a male-dominated society where she is not the conventional sort of woman.
Jared,
They don’t waste time getting the next seasons into production. They probably start before the current season even airs.
I must know who will play Euron! That’s going to be the biggest piece of casting news by far IMHO. I hope they announce that at the GOT panel at Comic Con (and hopefully the announcement will be James Purefoy).
I think that I have read that B&W start really working on scripts as soon as the beginning of the season premieres, guest appearances, interviews and other hooplah get done. They basically have to make the equivalent of three long films in the next several months. That is a hell of a lot of work!
And I could see Tyrion getting fed up with that in the 4th or 5th conversation! 🙂
The only way I can see both happening is if Mel tries to resurrect Jon, but fails, and then she decides to take his body to Thoros for help. She returns to the Riverlands, and finds a bunch of BWB outlaws who have turned more violent and vengeful. She asks them to take her to Beric, and they say that he’s passed his fire on to someone else and died permanently (there’s only eneough fire for one resurrected champion at a time, apparently).
Wimsey,
I love Jon will be back days. Can you have more
My wife had the same issue: indeed, she thought Crows so bad that she just stopped a quarter of the way in and gave up on the series. (She is no the only person I know to do that: I, myself, finished it but renounced my fandom for 6 years!) Recently, I told her to just read Dragons. She did and thought that Dragons was not quite as good or well-written as the first three books, but 1) readable! and, 2) pretty good.
Geralt of Rivia,
YES WE DO!!!!!
Casso,
Lucy in the Sky with Hardhome would have to have been introduced much earlier for any of that too work. Also, recall that Thoros said that there are limits on what he can do. Jon’s corpse would be pretty far gone by then!
Besides, why wouldn’t Mel just do it herself? She’s pretty damn powerful in her own right, and she now knows that it can be done. Thoros even told her how to do it.
(I would still lean towards Mel simply magically healing Jon: but we shall see. It’s still Friday for another 20 minutes, so I’m banking on it! 😀 )
Kind of a wild theory, but what if Theon and Sansa reaches the Wall early in S6 (with or without Brienne/Pod in tow). I think its possible because they made it a point of her finding out Jon was LC. Once there, you have someone else who has king’s blood: Theon. Maybe he offers himself as a sacrifice for his brother, thus bringing his redemption story to a close, and, ironically, burning as he burned the two boys. Just a late night, one glass of wine theory.
So I guess it’s fairly certain now that Shireen died for shit all?
I think I almost have him convinced to read ADWD. I’ve been working on him all season. I think he’ll like it. Tyrion and Arya are his favorite characters plus the Northern chapters were really good.
Pigeon,
Maybe for Jon???????
*prayer hands*
Well, it didn’t help Stannis…but the snow melted. Maybe it did something for R’hllor’s bigger plan?
Deesensfan,
Beric didn’t seem to require any deaths or sacrifices to be brought back. Thoros simply prayed to the Lord of Light, and Beric arose. I imagine something similar happening with Jon.
A cool way to do the resurrection would be for Melisandre to recite a customary prayer while Jon is “burning” on the funeral pyre… then when the pyre goes out, Jon rises from the ashes alive and unburned, leaving everyone (especially Mel) completely awestruck.
Or perhaps she just finds Jon’s body laying in the snow, says a prayer, and raises him from the dead. Simple and direct. I’d rather there be a bit more ceremony and drama involved, personally. 😛
Robb Snow,
I know, but I am saying maybe that will part of why R’hllor will answer her prayers!
I like the idea of the more dramatic seen… something more on par with Dany’s scene.
However, at this point ill take anything!
Well, if you think R’hllor’s bigger plan, then Shireen’s burning actually led to Stannis’ defeat and death, in very short order. So it removed a false, pretend fighter for R’hllor’s, on whom His priestess had wasted too much time already. It led Red Mel to go to the Wall, where she will play a part in the fight against the WWs.
Conan,
Fascinating to hear and it seems to be done better than last seasons leaked Obara’s audition piece. I do have an issue as I assume the scene is huge spoiler and that she has been pretty reckless in posting the video in the name of self-promotion; perhaps D & D should not use show dialogue for auditions.
Going to sound a bit like Stannis now and say even if she was the best actress in the world (which she is not) her naivety/lack of integrity in posting the video (especially considering the amount of leaked footage and spoilers during season 5) and the fact she has made little or no attempt to disguise the origin of the video means she should not be considered for the role nor deserves it.
RE – Stannis: – I think it was just wishful thinking from his supporters but I think a good proportion of people have an issue with the manner and haste in which his storyline ended. I would have preferred the attack on Winterfell to have gone into season six and sending Davos to gain support from the northern Lords. Even if meant Stannis eventually falling then Davos and the northern lords would be in a position to take Winterfell.
As mentioned by other commentators I think one of the casting roles for a northern lord could be Lord Cerwyn who was name dropped in season 5.
I am wondering how Littlefinger will convince the Vale Lords to attack Winterfell. If my understanding is correct bar his marriage to Lysa Arryn he has little connection and support at the Vale and due to his past association with the Lannisters is viewed with suspicion. Also both Sansa and Littlefinger have been away and unable to manipulate the Vale lords. Mentioning Sansa would show he deceived the Vale lords and had a hidden agenda.
I understand and agree with the way the Sansa storyline was done in season five especially linking in with Theon and Brienne and cutting away the false Arya role. However it would have been nice to have seen some scheming from her.
Robb Snow,
Sounds way too much like Dany’s one time magical event.Nope,it should belong only to her.Jon will be ressurected in a different way.I hope Bran and Bloodraven are somehow tied into this.I’m not a big fan Mel.Certainly Jon will be a very different person post-ressurection(yeah he will live).
“..who have turned on the land that they swore to protect. They’re now extorting the poor and vulnerable.”
&
“Flynn: He’s part of an outlaw band. The group is using religion to justify terrorizing and extorting what they need from the people of the countryside.”
This screams Brotherhood. We’ve seen what the BWB was like, outlaws, who are there to ‘protect’ the people from the hell of war. We’ve also seen how desperate they are for gold, selling Gendry to Mel & attempting to sell Arya to her brother at the twins. So we know how they are when it comes to money, seems logical that even harder times are upon them & they’ve resorted to extortion to continue their ‘efforts’. Thoughts?
Personally I hope LS is dropped because it’s far too late in the game & including her this late would seem like fan service. My opinion, at least. That role can EASILY be given to the Blackfish, while bringing the events of the Red Wedding around.
Woah, what if the Blackfish is the member of the outlaws who is ‘numb to the horrors of war’?? This character is the only one of the outlaws that they require to have a specific accent, i.e. Northern or Midland English accent. I would rather they bring back the original guy but at least they’re re-addressing an old plot line!
It would be a good callback to the season 1 finale. I think it’s plausable.
Fancy word for a sellsword,
Not everything should be Dany/Jon parallel.One time magical event should stay this way.Jon will be out of picture for the most of season 6,but he will be in the premiere.Should I say his body.
Kay,
I really like this explanation. It makes a lot of sense and “explains” why Mel would arrive at the Wall just before Jon’s death.
Geralt of Rivia,
As it was meant to. I don’t think Dany rose out of the ashes just because she was a Targaryen. She also was “chosen” by a greater power, and I believe Jon has been as well.
Geralt of Rivia,
How do you think he will be??
I don’t care how he comes back I just want Jon ‘kit harington” snow back
:$
I don’t see how they can keep him out for a year and still let the story flow
I just can’t wait to see a vengeful zombie Jon Snow roast Aliser and Olly on a spit.
Darquemode,
This is super exciting! I wonder if the actress is going to get any flack from the casting team for putting her audition reel on the internet though. It seems like that would be confidential.
Oh! First post ever! Finally decided to join in on the fun instead of being a lurker!
Thanks to Reddit for digging up this video from before Season 4 started.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5iS3tULXMQ&feature=youtu.be&t=46s
At the 46 s mark. Jon says that it’s as if he was asleep for a year and the world’s fallen apart. Now as far as I recall, this scene was cut from the actual pilot episode of Season 4, but it looks like foreshadowing. Jon could be “asleep” in an ice cell for Season 6 🙂 if someone preserves his body and then he will be somehow “awakened” (by who?) and everything will be different and “falling apart” in Season 7.
This would also be in line with all the interviews and such, where it’s stated Kit won’t be back for Season 6.
Wimsey,
Jon’s body could be packed in ice for the voyage, and if winter shows up, the weather could be quite cool even in the south. With enough ice, cool weather, and no direct sunlight (down in the cargo hold of a ship), the ice could last quite a while. While hiking in a mountainous area, I’ve found snow banks in July in a well shaded crack in the rocks, where the ambient temperature nearby (only about 100 ft. away) was over 80 F (summer snowball fights are fun).
For simplicity, it does seem more likely that Mel will just resurrect Jon herself, but there’s no real indication that she actually knows how to do it, because even Thoros didn’t really know how he did it. He just did the usual prayers and stuff, and it happened. Red priests and priestesses have been saying those prayers for centuries, and normally the people just stay dead. Thoros even said himself that he didn’t do it, but rather the Lord of Light did it.
Sure, Melisandre can pray for the Lord of Light to bring Jon back to life (and I assume she will do so in the first episode), but the question in my mind is, will the Lord of Light answer her? If her prayers for resurrection are not immediately answered, what will she do next?
If they were done with the Riverlands, then I would assume that Mel would just resurrect Jon right away, but if they’re bringing the BWB back into the story (and George is keeping them in the story), it could be that they have an active role in resurrecting Jon. They could do this but still skip LSH in the show (Beric passes the flame to Jon with no intermediary), but re-watching the scene in S3E2 made me wonder if that was a setup for something.
I really like not having any idea what’s going to happen next. Watching the show (and generally knowing approximately what was coming) has been distracting me from thinking about how completely uncertain the future is in the books. Now that the show has mostly caught up, the uncertainty is hitting me with full force, and it’s great.
One line from the transcript of the scene jumped out at me:
Mummers? Whom we do know is likely traveling with a band of mummers? Arya.
Does this mean that we can expect
?
It seems significant that the
Jared,
The scene’s definitely legit. It was posted five days ago on her Vimeo when we all just found about Stannis’s defeat. There wouldn’t have been time for someone to incorporate that info into a fake scene and post it that very day. Plus she’s a legit actresses, so I doubt she’d be involving herself in fake auditions.
I thought this was pretty good – over at the ASOIF reddit page, a poster named SirGallantLionheart posted this about Sansa in S5:
“Her arc parallels her s1-4 arc entirely
Sansa decides gets betrothed to a psychopath (Joffrey/Ramsay)
Super tall person tries to help Sansa escape but she refuses (The Hound/Brienne)
Psychopath did fucked up shit to family member turning Sansa completely against him(Killed Ned/Created Reek)
Sansa is told by someone involved in the whoring business that Stannis will save her (Shae/Littlefinger)
Stannis loses the battle against all odds mainly due to army decimation due to fire (Blackwater/Winterfell)
Sansa gets abused sexually by psycho (Stripped and beaten on Joffs orders/Raped by Ramsay)
Sansa makes one or two verbal burns to psychopath but he ultimately gets the upperhand (Goading Joff at blackwater/Calling Ramsay a disinheirited bastard)
Sansa hears about her brother rising higher than expected (King Robb/LC Jon Snow)
Shown mutilated remains of someone she cared about by psychopath (Ned’s head/Old ladys flayed corpse) credit to Schmigshmog
Person who betrayed Sansas family helps her escape (Littlefinger/Theon)
Psycho woman is about to kill Sansa but is pushed to a great fall by person she trusts but is really helping Sansa(Lysa by Littlefinger/Myranda by Theon)
It’s pretty much a condensed version as the previous seasons.”
Valyrian Steel,
Welcome! I started posting here after lurking for a long time not too long ago myself. Nice community and lots of great artcles and scoops by Sue and the other staff here to salivate over between seasons.
Kay,
I think Kit is bullshitting. It wouldn’t make much sense to me to delay his resurrection for another season considering they’d either burn his body soon after, or he might come back as a wight like those two dead Night’s Watchmen did in Season 1. They need to get it done and over with ASAP.
Deesensfan,
Not only that Dany’s event was one time magical event,but she is Fire with her dragons,and on the other hand we have White Walkers,who represents Ice.Pyre thing could happen(anything is possible),but to me it seems unlikely for now imo.
It’s my theory,but here it is…
Let’s say that R+L=J is true.To me,Jon represents the balance in the story.He’s not only Ice or Fire…he is Ice (Lyanna) and Fire (Rhaegar).I’m not saying that whole story is about him (multiple meanings).So going by that logic,he should be brought back with help of Mel (Fire magic) and Bran with Bloodraven (Ice magic).
There are two options.Funeral seems like a logical option,but I think they will either put his body into ice cells or someone will steal his body.Maybe,that’s why we have a certain smuggler in Castle Black.It depends on Sansa,because if she will make it to Castle Black.Davos could be sent on the mission to find Rickon.Back to the point.Bloodraven in the books keeps an eye on Starks kids (Jon and Bran especially) the whole time.It’s widely speculated that Blodraven sent them those direwolfes after all.He could be even the one responsible for warging Mormont’s raven saying: “Corn” “King” “Snow” “Jon Snow”…funny thing because in the show widlings call Jon “King Crow”.
There is just some much connection between Jon and Bloodraven.Maybe even Melisandre and Bloodraven too.I hope show will focuse on that aspect in next season.I know it will be painfull without Jon for major part of season 6,but I think it will be good to keep Jon’s ressurection until the end of the season.Bran’ story will basically replace Jon’s to certain extent.We will get more info on CotF,fight against WW,magic of Ice and Fire and quite posssibly Jon’s parentage.It will be worth it. 😉
Valyrian Steel,
Welcome to the chaos!
I always like the leaked auditions too. It’s fun getting bits of dialog and theorizing story arcs. They are usually pretty good indicators of where an arc is going even if the scene doesn’t make it to screen in the end!
As for the legality… they are very frequently removed from a site soon after they’re posted. Probably for legal reasons like you mentioned, but I’m not sure honestly.
M,
Wow! Excellent catch there. It could be a way for
Kay
… from what she says, Melissandre has a purpose being where she is, and she first went to Dragonstone (where Daenerys was born), but which had zero to do with Stannis and everyone they merrily burnt. It looks like Meereen will have quite a few scenes. Is it going to be the King’s Landing of Essos in Season 6?
Based on how little is being done to stave off the White Walkers, how their army grows exponentially at every turn and the complete lack of the right kind of weaponry to even put a dent in their numbers, Meereen, or some other city in Essos, could very well be the new Kings Landing permanently by the end of the series!
GRRM seems so dedicated to leaving at least part of the world a bleak, frozen, windy plain, devoid of humanity, I’m figuring that any survivors of the Long Winter will have to sail across the sea to find a place to live. All of Westeros will be empty of humanity, and life will go on elsewhere, because the citizens didn’t pay attention to their biggest problem when they had the chance.
M,
!!!!!!!!!!! 😀
Pigeon:
So I guess it’s fairly certain now that Shireen died for shit all?
Aisling replied:
Well, it didn’t help Stannis…but the snow melted. Maybe it did something for R’hllor’s bigger plan?
It certainly helped Ramsay. Isn’t that the most utter, bitter irony? That that little girl had to die in that horrific manner to entice better weather? I posted an indignant comment to that effect right after the episode, and one of Stannis’ staunch defenders reamed me up and down about Stannis’ destiny and how it was necessary for a Stannis victory. Ha
I rather like Kay’s take on it:
Thronetender,
See, if it DOES end up with Mel being at the Wall for that very reason *fingers crossed*, then it’s very true that it wouldn’t have been in vain. If we believe Kit about not being in S6 though (which I don’t, particularly), that seems too long for it to be used as a ‘trade’ of sorts. I also like the point about removing a false ‘chosen one’ (although that was Mel’s fault, not Stannis’, ultimately)
Ugh about it helping Ramsay – ain’t that a kick in the gut! 🙁 I really find it a bit odd that Roose was nowhere to be seen.
So was Rila Fukushima’s Red Priestess in Volantis a one time deal? Because it makes more sense to have her take her faith to Meereen instead of another Volantene Red Priestess.
Too bad that girl posted the video,probably ruins her chances to get the part after this.But I have to say she looks really well and her acting is good enough.She would have been nice.But I’m sure they will cast it right.
As far as we know, Varys has never been in the north, and will have been off-continent for some time prior to hearing that news in Meereen. Littlefinger, in contrast, has spent much of his time the Riverlands and the Vale and got his start in the Vale’s primary port in Gulltown. He clearly has connections to White Harbor in the north at minimum. Given that these two are supposed to be rivals, why would the one with little connection to the north, no particular short-term intentions to the north, and widely physically seperated from the north have a spy network there, while the one who is deeply connected, very accute short-term intentions, and is and almost always has been nearby NOT have a single person there? Or even anyone he could simply ask? Would it have been too hard for him send someone to White Harbor out of Gulltown in order to pick up the gossip out of the North? Not that the news wouldn’t make its way from White Harbor to Gulltown on its own, with the natural flow of people and goods.
There is just no way the Bolton’s can rule the north via fear of flaying and murder, yet have that news to stop dead in its tracks along the Kingsroad and at every port.
So between this casting call and the previous one, I think all the new characters are assumed to be in one of these areas:
The North (+ a Child of the Forest beyond the Wall), The Riverlands, The Reach, Braavos (specifically, the acting troupe that Arya will meet up with), the Dothraki Sea, one or more flashbacks in an unspecified location. There’s also Euron + any associated Greyjoy characters who may or may not be shown in Pyke…if they don’t first appear elsewhere.
I haven’t been following every scrap of news, but so far nothing to suggest that we’ll be seeing Dorne again, is there? Also, no new casting tied to King’s Landing (though we already have plenty of characters there). And perhaps more surprisingly to me, no one new in Meereen.
Is this just because the Croatian casting is done separately? How much of the Meereen stuff is shot in Croatia? Are the pyramid interior scenes shot there, or in Belfast? Because it seems odd that we’d have no one new there. Whatever location Tyrion occupies is inevitably going to get a lot of screen time, and with Hizdahr dead and Dany/Jorah/Daario away, all we have there is Tyrion, Varys, Grey Worm, and Missandei. Surely, there are going to be other characters there for them to interact with, no? Or are people thinking that Dany’s going to return to Meereen by mid-season, and then they’ll go straight to Westeros, meaning no need for new characters in Slaver’s Bay?
When do the King’s Landing and Meereen exterior scenes tend to get filmed? Early in the shooting schedule, so they can take advantage of warm weather? Those are the places where we tend to get the most filming leaks, isn’t it (presumably because they’re filming stuff in the middle of tourist cities)? If the action’s going to shift more towards the North and Riverlands this year, away from big cities, then maybe we won’t get as many filming leaks as usual?
Conan,
Jared,
Yeah! Our first snippet from season six, in a way 😛
So, as the High Priestess of Volantis, she is technically taking the place of Benerro, right? But practically, the place of the envoy Benerro sends, Moqorro. Sounds like a great scene, by the way.
Oh, and this confirms the popular theory of how things will go with Moqorro in the books, right? Moqorro will convince the people (and maybe even Dany herself?) that Daenerys is Azor Ahai, basically.
Our first mention of the Prince who was Promised. Yes, they say “One” instead of “Prince”, but that’s a good simplification.
Tyrion and Varys ruling together is gonna be so fun. These castings and audition tapes are always so fun! For spoiler-phobe book readers, though… TWOW is gonna get spoiled piece by piece, I’m afraid, even if the book does get released before season six.
And not even a week after the s5 finale. The timing couldn’t be better.
Greenjones,
Yup.
Hope WOTW reports on it. I guess they’ll want to make 100% sure it’s real. This is quite exciting news. I like that this Kinvara likes to play with them —referencing Tyrion meeting the High Priestess in the bridge of Volantis (I guess we now know what that strange look meant —she DID recognize him), and Varys’ magical mutilation.
Luka Nieto,
* I meant the RED Priestess in the Long Bridge of Volantis.
i comeback after a week and what do i get an Audition video of red priestess ..glad i was right about the role being the version of moqorro
and the one who was chosen …..i already want to hear what D&D has to say about the inside episode of this segment
Slayer of lies …i just want this one confirmed and done with it
OMFG!!! She knows the name of cock merchant who “bought” Varys cock.
Wouldn´t it be funny if the cock merchant turned out to be LF?
I mean he caannot be THAT lucky by pure chance, right? 😉
p.s. OMG that explains why Balon is still alive in the show. Ramsey sent him Theons cock and thus for annulled the effects of Mel´s leeaches.
So Azho Azhai is a male pearson that puts a blade to the thing he loves the most… so every NW member needs to cut his own “member” and the Others are done for.
THAT is what George has trying to tell us this whole time. 🙂
Wimsey, here is a pretty good post on the commoners in and around Winterfell. In the books, Ramsay and Roose killed a lot of them, but to kill them all is beyond implausible. News spread and many fled, and each one that did told ten who told ten who told ten. Literally everyone in the North knows what monsters they are – it is not meant to be a secret.
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/86801-commoners-in-winterfell-and-the-stark-lands-in-adwd/
Now, you can argue the TV-universe is different, and that Ramsay uncharacteristically took a one year break from his flaying, murdering ways, but if you do, that would leave LF’s spy network at least partially intact. Given Ros’s move from the small village outside Winterfell (Winter Town) to LF’s high-end brothel in King’s Landing, it is pretty obvious to conclude that he owned that brothel in Winter Town and she was sent based on a recommendation. Him owning a brothel there makes sense, as he’d want to keep his eyes on Cat. Having spies around Winterfell would be very high on his list.
It seems to me that either way, LF should have a clue about what is going on in the North.
Geralt of Rivia,
I hope so, that does sound like a good theory
However, we don’t really know bloodraven in the show…How would they introduce him now?
Laura,
Sorry but which character are you referring to?
Sorry but which character are you referring to?
? Hardly! It terminated a plot line that has been prominent since the 2nd story. That figuratively and then literally killed Stannis. It has had a major effect on the tale.
We don’t know him in the books, either. Only the small fraction of readers who read the “extracurricular” stuff would know anything about him. The vast majority of the bookreaders do not know that it is Bloodraven stuffed in that tree (the book never says that), or even who Bloodraven is.
To that end, I doubt that it is at all important that we know who he is. He is, after all, embedded in a tree, and barely alive. It is possible that what he is (i.e., a “tree god”) might be important: but that will probably fall on Bran, who is one of the lead characters.
Wimsey,
Ah okay!!
I like the idea of bran seeing a vision that will be the big reveal
On both book and show, Varys is the spy-master. He has agents bring him the news. That is why he knows more than any one person about what is happening anywhere and everywhere. Indeed, the last episode indicates that he still has access to his spy network in Essos. Of course, as the spy-master for an entire realm, it would be his job to do that also.
The rest of what you wrote is largely irrelevant. The Boltons kept their doings secret even from the Starks: Ned suspected, but didn’t know. Roose emphasizes the importance of keeping things quiet on both book and show. After all, that was one of the points of the scene where he admonishes Ramsay for flaying people who won’t pay taxes: everything should be kept quiet.
Now, Ramsay might now be letting things slip: but he hadn’t by the time that LF hatched this plan. Moreover, Ramsay has not let slip that he’s a psychopath with serious women issues: he just resorted to the old Bolton tradition of flaying (a tradition that they advertise on their banner).
Even so, news would be travelling very slowly at this time. Not only are the Boltons actively clamping down on what ravens send and bring, but the huge loss of life during the war and the encroaching winter would have greatly reduced people traveling.
So, again, this is the classic error of false equivalency. Your argument demands that all facts are equally easy to learn and that both Varys and LF have equal means of learning things. Both are false. One fact (Stannis lost) is actively advertised, the other (Ramsay is a psychopath) is actively suppressed. LF is very good at learning things (particularly involving Kings Landing), but Varys is even better at learning things (particularly in the rest of the world).
Chad Brick:
I appreciate you taking time to respond, but you’re really off by a wide margin.
Wimsey has already covered this one. In 3×10 Walder asked Roose what had really happened at Winterfell because he, being Roose’s partner in betrayal after all, suspected that the Boltons had something to do with the fall of Winterfell. It has nothing to do with Ramsay’s hidden proclivities for flaying people.
I addressed these objections on multiple occasions, but no one seems to care. It is very important to differentiate between “state policy” and the way one behaves in private. Yes, Ramsay flayed the Ironborn at Moat Cailin in line with ancient Bolton traditions, but it’s paramount to understand that those were foreign invaders trying to conquer the North. They were enemy combatants. Trying to draw conclusions from that as to the Ramsay’s private behaviour would be the same as using the Rains of Castamere and the utter destruction of every member of Houses Reyne and Tarbeck, be they men, women, or children, to conclude that Tywin and the Lannisters in general always behave that way, even with their husbands, wives, or random strangers who displease them. That makes absolutely no sense.
As for lord Cerwyn, you should note that it happened after the wedding had already been arranged. Also, you are once again mixing public and private behaviour. For all intents and purposes, Cerwyn was a rebel lord that would likely lose his head, although in a less gruesome manner, no matter who his liege lord is.
I’ll grant you Reek. There is a possibility that some news would have reached the South on Balon Greyjoy’s only son having an… unusual role on the Bolton court.
So when all is said and done, what public knowledge as to the Ramsay’s character and secret hobbies really exists? What would a well-informed Southern lord know of him beside the fact that, like all the Boltons before him, he is a hard man, cruel and unforgiving to his enemies? Since there’s already a widespread belief in the South that the Northerners are little better than barbarians, why would those character traits when pertaining to Ramsay suddenly mean that he’s a psycho serial killer who tortures and murders whomever he damn well pleases?
Deesensfan,
There almost certainly will be some big reveals there. However, it probably will not be for Jon’s parentage. Bran can see what living weirwoods can see: but I don’t think that we have any reason to think that there are weirwoods in Dorne or on the Dornish border.
Still, I think that Bran will have a big impact on the story and the plot in other ways: it’s not like this is the only open thread! (And if they really have killed off Jon, then they will not tell us who Jon’s mother was on the show. Why bother? People can get that from the books, where Jon almost certainly will be an important protagonist in the remaining two stories.)
Wimsey,
Okay, so how would they reveal jons parentage on the show?
Also if they kill him off in the show but not the books, that would be so dumb
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
It happened but they played up the ‘everyone was laughing at her’ part and she read more into Renly’s courtesy than there was. I think it was a crush that went too far…almost as bad as Littlefingers! Either way, she is a lot more naive in the books which makes her more endearing. I think she seems hardened in the show and it doesn’t make sense for her to be as she hadn’t had any real world experience before she joined Renly’s army in the War of the Five Kings.
I’ll agree that she can only really get more interesting as I’ve ofund her plotline massively dull since she parted ways with Jaime/
I had it a couple of times. Not sure if it’s because I’m taking too long to type or another issue.
In the show, the Vale lords are completely onboard with Littlefinger.
I have no idea how the show is going to address what happened to Sansa, but it’s possible they’ll just (as they so often do) ignore that and hope the audience doesn’t ask questions.
One of the posters on WotW (don’t remember who; sorry!) said that Brienne’s AFfC chapters can be read as a descent through the levels of Dante’s Hell. I look forward to rereading her with that in mind.
Joshua Atreides,
It would make more sense wouldn’t it?
Maybe it was even the original plan, but Rila Fukushima will be on the upcoming NBC martial arts series called Warrior in the Fall.
http://deadline.com/2015/02/rila-fukushima-cast-warrior-peter-gerety-sneaky-pete-1201380854/
The melting snows allowed Melisandre to return to the Wall in time for Jon’s stabbing. Otherwise she might’ve taken longer?
I would have liked to see Rila Fukushima continue her role. But she may be too busy to come back for a scene or more (if the scripts call for it). OTOH, having another higher-up Red Priestess builds up the R’hllor worshippers a bit more, as a huge force to reckon with in Essos.
Geralt of Rivia,
There are two options.Funeral seems like a logical option,but I think they will either put his body into ice cells or someone will steal his body.Maybe,that’s why we have a certain smuggler in Castle Black.It depends on Sansa,because if she will make it to Castle Black.Davos could be sent on the mission to find Rickon.Back to the point.Bloodraven in the books keeps an eye on Starks kids (Jon and Bran especially) the whole time.It’s widely speculated that Blodraven sent them those direwolfes after all.He could be even the one responsible for warging Mormont’s raven saying: “Corn” “King” “Snow” “Jon Snow”…funny thing because in the show widlings call Jon “King Crow”.
A lot depends on what the situation at Castle Black will be immediately after Jon’s stabbing. The resurrection of Jon might be different in the books then from the show. In the show they have never even mentioned the ice cells, and Jon does not have that connection with Bloodraven. In the books he might land up in the ice cells, and it could be Bran and Bloodraven who helps him. Honestly I am still not even quite sure that he died in the books it is left much more ambiguously and he is only stabbed 3-4 times in places that aren’t immediately lethal. But he might take a long time to recover, and the show doesn’t have time for that, and to have someone recover for a long time does not make for compelling TV.
In the show it just seems more likely that Melisandre will resurrect him. This speech of this High Priestess with Varys and Tyrion, might also point in that same direction. When they ask her about Melisandre, she basically says that things happen for a reason and that Melisandre is in the right place.
It seems quite unlikely that they will have one of their official funerals for Jon. Stuff could go downhill very, very quickly at Castle Black, once the Wildlings and the few loyal Night Watch brothers discovered what happened, there might be chaos.
The show only has 20 episodes left they simply dont have time for Jon to disappear for to long. Resurrections done by the Lord of Light needs to be done quickly. I think it is most likely that Melisandre just say the prayer over Jon, and he “awakes”. Or if he gets burned on a funeral pyre, he might rise, there is the Melisadre prophesy of a sacrifice that will wake a stone dragon. This could refer to the sacrifice of Shireen, and Jon being the dragon.
I dont know I might be wrong, but if you have read the WOW chapters of Stannis, it sounds like he might be a bit more successful then what he was in the show. I think they have cut Stannis’s arc short, and they might give a part of that arc to Jon. The effect of the Pink Letter could still come into play here, if Jon finds out that Sansa was married to Ramsay after he is resurrected, then Jon could rally the Wildlings and take Winterfell.
Melisandre has seen that the Boltons would be defeated, and she saw herself walking on battlements of Winterfell. Melisandre’s visions are never wrong, it always happens, she just miscalculated when it would happen and with who it would happen. Jon would want to try and unite the North before the Long Night. Jon needs to get to Winterfell. Winterfell was build at the same time as the Wall, I think Winterfell are also protected by the same spell as the Wall. If the Wall falls, Winterfell might be the only place left that is actually safe.
In the books Stannis might take Winterfell, but he could also be quickly displaced by the Northern Lords. There is still that situation of Robb’s will that is floating around somewhere in the Neck perhaps. A collaboration of the Northern Lords seems likely, the question is just to what degree.
Most of the viewers are expecting nothing from the Northern Lords: on the show, the northerners are pretty much wiped out at the Red Wedding, after all, and the show implies that little is left in the way of any northern strength. That was emphasized by the scene where one of the Northern houses (Mormants, I think) has a response from a child about Robb Stark being the one true King in the North: if the Northern Houses are so decimated that their lords are now children, then there is not much left to them.
And as for Stannis’ end being abrupt, it really was not by the standards of cable TV stories. This is another difference between literature and screen. It is akin to the difference between studio and live performances of rock songs. A lot of rock/pop songs end on fading “outros”: that is, the song just sort of fades away in volume, but never really ends. However, the live performances always end with a bang on some particular chord. Extended “outros” are (or can be) fine on studio performances or in books: but they (almost) never work in live performances or on screen.
no asians again? oh come on!! lol
I just realized I left a phrase out of the descriptions, because I had to add everything in so quickly. Pretty much everything is there but I’d left out this bit because I didn’t think it was that significant when I was summarizing the casting breakdowns- only now I realize it is another clue.
Of the Legendary Fighter, it says, “He carries a hugely famous sword on his back.” I’d left out that last bit in my hurry.
Dayne wears Dawn on his back, it’s mentioned in the ToJ story. I was pretty sure that this was Arthur Dayne anyway, but that’s one more clue.
Sue the Fury,
Wow, thanks!
Can you add it to the main post? It helps for the wiki 😉
If Jon is dead, then it almost certainly is for one reason: to allow GRRM to keep R+L=J (or N+A=J or X+Y=J) secret until he gets it out in his books. So, if Jon is dead, then the show will not reveal who Jon’s mother is.
The only reason why I suspect that this might be the case is that, supposedly, one of the contractual clauses for the Harry Potter films was that certain things could not be revealed in the films before they were revealed in the books. These things would almost certainly have been the nature of Harry’s scar and the “why” of Snape. The fact that GRRM used Jon’s parentage as his final “test” question for B&W indicates that this probably is as important to him as Snape loved Lily or Harry’s scar is a piece of Voldemort’s soul was to Rowling. So, if GRRM got any similar clauses, then this would have been it.
Back in 2008, this probably seemed like no big deal: Dragons was coming out later that year or in 2009, and if GRRM got back to his 3-4 year pace, then the last book would be out by the final season at the latest. However, it’s 2015 and Winter still is not out: and we have to accept that there is a very high probability that it will not be released before the series ends, never mind by next year.
Full disclosure: this is very much the voice of fear from me! After all, we do not know that GRRM got any such clauses when selling the rights to his work. However, there is one fact that nags at me: why were HBO’s executives publicly grumbling about GRRM not finishing the books? Really, they derive only one thing from Winter being out before Season 6: publicity from book fans complaining about the differences between the books and the show. (Remember, Fantasy fans have so little credibility in the minds of Joe and Jane Public that our criticism makes Jane & Joe assume that a show/movie is good.) But after 5 seasons, that’s not going to matter: viewers are judging the show by the first 5 seasons at this point. So, why else should they care? And that is when I worry: maybe they cannot do some things until they are done in the books first.
(It’s Saturday, and it seems that Saturday is one of my “Jon is dead: deal with it” days.)
Cool! That increases the chance that Sunday will be a “Jon is still alive!” day for me! 😀 (But it’s still Saturday….. 🙁 )
Are you sure that this was not describing what it was like for the reader? 😀
Doesn anyone know where I can find the audition video? YouTube or did anyone save it? It’s been removed from the link above.
So … this means no Howland Reed next season?
I guess he appears in the last (7th) season, and by that logic only in the last book?
He is a crappy friend to the Starks…. The “late” Howalnd Reed he should be called.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
What makes you think that?
Season 5 ended a week ago. Let’s not start assuming we have all the casting information for next season already, shall we?
Greetings, first time post after much lurking, so forgive me if I commit some manner of forum faux pas.
Has anyone considered the treacherous old witch that was tied to the pyre from which Daenerys emerged unscathed?
Trading one life for another strikes me as a very common circular theme.
The Many Faced God certainly demands it (life for life was a major stepping stone in Arya’s evolution), there are many incidental storyline events and comments that seem to focus on this aspect of death for life. R’hllor seems to require blood sacrifice also, at least when Melisandre “supposedly” acts on His behalf (that whole “god of flame and shadow” spiel just strikes my suspicion-nerve as “manipulative Asshai’i blood-magic wizardess of darkness, smoke and mirrors” when compared to any other priest of R’hllor not of Asshai; heightened ever since learning the drunken Thoros required no blood ritual and merely honest faith to resurrect Beric multiple times – But I digress…)
If Jon does make an extremely dramatic “rising from the ashes of his funeral pyre unscathed” emergence as has been theorised, will the Shrieking Shireen BBQ & Grill horror show perhaps be made more useful than a mere melting of the snow and the exact opposite of the then expected result (for it not only routed and demoralised Stannis’ army, but actually made their defeat ridiculously easy since Bolton’s sudden cavalry advantage would have been tremendously reduced had the snows remained deep and heavy)?
Will someone else have to throw themselves (or be thrown) into Jon’s pyre?
“The problem is proximity” – John Bradley.
Vindictive Sting,
theon?
Turncloak,
This is most certainly Arthur Dayne. What sword (besides Longclaw) is more famous than Dawn? I see this season as a way of building up to who Jon Snow’s parents are, with a major scene being at the Tower Of Joy. There we will learn the secret of Jon’s parentage, so I assume this will be the final episode, where they will also have Azor Ahai awaken (Thanks Melisandre).
You admit Reek, and then ask the last question? Mutilating and torturing someone and then dragging them around like a pet is not “state policy”. It is perversion of the highest order, and something Ramsay flaunts, not hides, on both TV and in the books.
Either TV-Ramsay went on a murder spree and killed most of the men living around Winterfell (while hauling the pretty girls back to the Dreadfort and leaving the old to be servants, such as our “North Remembers” lady), or he did not. Book Ramsay certainly did, and everyone in the north knows about it. This is precisely what book-Ramsay wants. If TV-Ramsay went on the same spree (probable), then everyone in the North would know about it, and LF would know anything everyone in the North knows. If TV-Ramsay behaved uncharacteristically for a year and was a nice guy, only to revert to his flaying ways immediately after the betrothal to Sansa, then LF should have an intact spy network near Winterfell and would know what was going on anyway. Either way, he should know.
And in any case, LF’s “I haven’t heard anything about you” shouldn’t have had a hidden clause “other than that you like to flay and mutilate Ironborn when they surrender…you wouldn’t be mean to a pretty Northern girl, would you?”.
Guys, ¿What if we’re not getting ToJ but Arthur Dayne vs the Smiling Knight and the Kingswood Brotherhood? It could be a Jaime’s flashback…
Also, we got the “outlaws” cast, I think this is way more plausible than ToJ(Flashback by who?).
Pedrissimo,
I’ll add that “Bran Visions” are only possible through Weirwood trees, right? ToJ is too far south to have one there.
EDIT:
Darquemode,
Oh sorry, you said it first. Well, i fully agree 🙂
Chad Brick,
Ned Stark: “I trust you enjoyed the journey, Your Grace.”
Robert Baratheon: “Bogs and forests and fields and scarcely a decent inn north of the Neck. I’ve never seen such a vast emptiness. Where are all your people?”
Robert Baratheon didn’t encounter any smallfolk on his way to Winterfell. It’s entirely possible Littlefinger had a similar journey.
I’m going to speculate that LF tells the Vale Lords that the Boltons kidnapped her on their way to the Fingers, or something to that effect. A story like that would have the dual effect of allowing him to appear ‘innocent’ in this situation while simultaneously enraging the Vale Lords. If he throws in “stories” of rape and torture, “…why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright,” …and in the show…her freedom as well.
The Vale has always been willing to fight for the Starks. Give them a good enough reason and they will. And what better reason if there then to save the last surviving Stark from the evil Boltons?
Yeah I wasn wondering this
Looking closer, one sounds like a clansmen who features ins Asha’s storyline in the far north around Deepwood Motte and the other a traditonal Lord with a Castle
Sounds like one could be an Umber holding Rickon who would be a mix of Umbers and Manderly’s and spearhead a rebellion
The other I suspect will probably relate to the Wildlings and the peace/marriage pact that seems to be occurring in Jons chapters, bringing the Wildlings (and perhaps a resurrected Jon) into the fold so they can join in the rebellion
I expect Sansa to go to the RL with Brienne and they’ll meet up with Jaimie, I reckon that’s where they end up in WoW with the arc relating to Harrenhall and the Twins etc
RosanaZugey,
Personally I reckon Sansa will get them to attack the Twins
So we may have the northern Lords rebelling against the Boltons on behalf of Rickon, and Wildlings/Clansmen joining in thanks to Jon
And in the Midlands we get Vale attacking the Freys
This kind makes sense as it’s a repeat of seasons 3 and 4, eg in season 3 we had the Starks brought down, but that was followed by the Lannisters declining in season 4
But this time it’s a case of Jon and Stannis, Cersei, Sansa and the Tyrells declining, but next season Tyrells, hopefully Jon and the Starks will be back with a vengeance and Cersei/Sansa will go back upwards and the Sparrows, Freys and Boltons will end up like Joffrey and Tywin etc. Lannisters in general will decline, eg Ser Kevan will be killed and they have to go back to CR but within that Cersei’s power will re-appreciate
lol
He did send his kids including his heir off to take Bran to the far north well beyond the Wall…
LMFAO! Touche’! *Golf Claps*
With Littlefinger invading the North, it doesn’t make any narrative sense for Sansa to go to the Riverlands. Her story is intrinsically linked to him.
I think these things are plausible (especially if Jon gets resurrected early in S6), and I’m LOVING the concept of the Starks going upwards and getting their revenge; I’m just not sure it would go exactly that way. The show has already set up a conflict between the Vale forces and the Boltons (LF in ep 7), so I think they’ll pay off that plot point in S6. I’m also of the opinion that if Sansa has indeed escaped Winterfell, then she might rally the Northern Lords herself, not only to find Rickon but to reclaim Winterfell. I’m convinced there’s a reason she repeatedly said, “I am Sansa Stark of Winterfell,” and “This is MY home,” and hell, even the elderly woman telling her, “The North Remembers”. I think she said–on at least three separate occasions–that she is Sansa Stark of Winterfell. That means something. It was emphasized too much for it to NOT mean something. Plus, one of Myranda’s last words to her were that she was too important to die and that her Father was the Warden of the North. Why even mention that if its not important later? I mean sure, it makes sense that she said that in the context she said it, but I’ve noticed that when the show beats a dead horse (by continually reminding you of things you already know), it’s because it will matter later on. Also, I’m thinking LF’s admonition to “avenge her family” will actually come into play in S6 as opposed to S5 (when we all thought it would), and rallying the Northern Lords is how she’ll do it (as opposed to “manipulation and seduction” as we previously thought).
In that scenario, you’ll have the North and the Vale fighting the Boltons (which…will probably happen in the books as well) sans Jon and the Wildlings. Hell, even if they do resurrect Jon and he rallies the Wildlings to Winterfell…that would just be icing on the cake. 🙂
Side note: Tell me what you think. I always had the impression that it would be Arya who kills the Freys with the help of Nymeria and all of the wolves hanging around the Riverlands. Those wolves have to come into play at some point. They’ve been mentioned too much to NOT come into play. And since Arya seems to be the only one still thinking about Walder Frey (isn’t he still on her list in the show?), it would be poetic if that revenge came through her. Makes sense too, as she was present at the Red Wedding and witnessed all of that horror. That kill should be hers. But what say you?
Wimsey,
Which movies would those be?
Wimsey,
I see what youre saying.
I didn’t know that Rowling had any clauses or what not, but it was easier I think with movies to hold off on any big reveals.
However, I think it would ruin the show to change the story and kill a favorite character who they have been building up HEAVILY since Season 1 and extremely heavily in season 5, just because of a delayed book. GRRM has every right, but that puts a stain in the show in my opinion. It may be a small stupid thing to complain about but whatever.. maybe I am biased.
João Victor,
I also think this is what may happen. I also believe that Melisandre will throw herself on the flames too, in order to ressurect Jon. She seems pretty lost now that her visions have proven “false” and may do so in madness, or after a vision in the flames. Only death may pay for life..
I had this crazy idea of what might happen…
Maybe in the Tower of Joy flashback, Ned Stark is portrayed by Bran Stark, and Howland Reed is portrayed by Jojen Reed…
Because of… greensight’s weird stuff..
I hope that’s not the case, as I would love to see Sean Bean returning to the role of Lord Eddard.
marsyao,
Are you just making stuff up, D&D have access to the draft Winds of winter material so why would they simply make stuff up.
Arthur,
primogeniture succession. English history 101. Prince Edward the Black prince dies, then few years later his father King Edward the III dies; his son Prince Richard become King Richard II not King Edward III eldest surviving brothers that time, Duke of Clarance, Lionel of Artwarp or Duke of Lancaster, John of Gaunt. If King Richard II have a son by the time of his dead, that son would be the rightful king of England not King Henry IV (Balingbroke) and his Lancaster line. Some goes to Mad King heir, it will be Rhaergar eldest surviving son. If Aegon his dead and Jon Show is prove to be Jon Targ, then Jon is the heir to the targ dynasty not Dany. Remeber there was Kingguards protecting lyna in the tower of joy. why would kingguard protecting lyna and not Rhergar wife and childrens or the King himself in King Landing if not their are protecting the heir to the throne knowingly Rheargar children by elia martell already dead and mad king other children which escape to Dragonstone are not heir.
And I imagine that every lord that wanted to marry into the Lannisters quickly abandoned the idea because it’d be only a matter of time before Tywin Castamere’d them for the funsies. Yes, the fact Boltons flay their enemies — something they are proud to remind people with their banners and words — necessarily and automatically means they also do it in their free time to their spouses. I mean really.
Arthur,
primogeniture succession. English history 101. Prince Edward the Black prince dies, then few years later his father King Edward the III dies; his son Prince Richard become King Richard II not King Edward III eldest surviving brothers that time, Duke of Clarance, Lionel of Artwarp or Duke of Lancaster, John of Gaunt. If King Richard II have a son by the time of his dead, that son would be the rightful king of England not King Henry IV (Balingbroke) and his Lancaster line. Some goes to Mad King heir, it will be Rhaergar eldest surviving son. If Aegon his dead and Jon Show is prove to be Jon Targ, then Jon is the heir to the targ dynasty not Dany
Apparently, you can escape of anything if you are a f*&^ng Targ ?
Whither it was willingly from Lyanna to escape with emo-prince Rhaegar or not, it’s still a kidnap from a married -who thinks he is entitled into doing anything- Targ in his 20’s and the victim was a 17 girl with foolish fantasies.
That’s simple. The Targs are not special snow flakes. And should respect others to not swing their cocks to where the wind goes.
Snake,
Jeremy McMahon,
Dark Sister or Blackfyre maby ?
Famous sword, legendary swordsman, paragon of knighthood.
We are getting Ser Arthur Dayne.
I’m hyped.
I’m honestly shocked none of the characters being cast from what we’ve seen so far is Oldtown related. What if Sam never gets to Oldtown?
jentario,
They tend to cast the smaller roles on a rolling basis, and it’s possible we’ll see more as time goes by.
It’s also possible that in the GoT world, Sam never makes it to Oldtown.
Lord of Northern Stronghold + House maid = RICKON!!!
The lord of a Northern noble house has political power through birth. The lord of a Northern stronghold does not. Both have castles.
Glover and Howland have already appeared on the show.
Sue the Fury,
That’s looking likely at this point. You’d expect at least one or two new major Oldtown characters to show up so Sam will have characters to interact with. That said, D&D may decide to be creative and use old characters only…
Pycelle could be sent back to Oldtown by Cersei and serve as the lead Maester character in that storyline, then one of the existing Sand Snakes can be sent there (if her presence is at all important) and Jaqen could hitch a ride on Sam’s boat. Then throw in a few small one-off characters and you’re done.
That was in Book 4, not Book 6. We know that Book 6 has a bit of flashbacks (or so GRRM says).
I think that people hoping that we’ll somehow get the Riverlands stuff from Crows need to stop. The relevant characters are going to be doing their Winter stuff next year.
Actualy, we’d expect only minor characters for Sam’s interactions: any new cast will be supporting players for Sam’s evolution next year.
At any rate, it is too late to introduce major characters. Anyone introduced from here on out will be a supporting, tertiary or flat-out incidental character.
abraham,
Arthur,
Correct. If Charles died tomorrow, then William, not Andrew, would become Elizabeth’s heir. If William, too, died, then William’s son (Elizabeth’s great-grandson) would be Elizabeth’s heir. Williams’ son comes before Harry and Harry comes before Andrew.
Of course, in days of yore when it actually mattered who was monarch, then might have been factions lining up to support one Windsor over another. That would have been particularly true if E.’s surviving heir was a child.
It is very possible that “to primogeniture or not to primogeniture” will be an important story point later in this series.
It does in false equivalency land! 😀
jentario,
Yikes, no more of the first three Sand Snakes please. I don’t have anything against Keisha, Jessica, or Rosabell, but the characters themselves were completely unlikeable and not well written. If they must include that part of the Oldtown arc, I’d rather they just add Sarella. She’d hopefully be more intelligent and likeable than her sisters and redeem the Sand Snakes as a whole.
Rygritte,
What? I remember seeing Galbart Glover in season 1, but not Howland. I actually wouldn’t mind if they brought Mark Coney back to play one of the Northern lords. I’ll never forget his “Renly is not right!”
One of Roose Bolton’s leeches,
I had this crazy idea of what might happen…
Maybe in the Tower of Joy flashback, Ned Stark is portrayed by Bran Stark, and Howland Reed is portrayed by Jojen Reed…
Because of… greensight’s weird stuff..
I hope that’s not the case, as I would love to see Sean Bean returning to the role of Lord Eddard.
Ah, tis a consummation devoutly to be wished. It would electrify the fans, especially if he gets a meaty scene (or several). I assume this would happen via Bran-net. But could they ever film Bean secretly? It would be effective even if it’s not that secret, but if it were sprung on the fans….OMG! Bean himself said in an interview that he thinks Ned’s story is incomplete and that somehow he should have a chance to fill in some information.
I like your idea of Thomas Brodie-Sangster and Isaac being young Howland and Ned, other than the fact that TBS is in his mid-twenties and Isaac still a teen. That might look incongruous, but it’s not impossible
“My duty is to the realm. How many boys dwell in Westeros? How many girls? How many men, how many women? The darkness will devour them all, she says. The night that never ends. She talks of prophecies . . . a hero reborn in the sea, living dragons hatched from dead stone . . . she speaks of signs and swears they point to me. I never asked for this, no more than I asked to be king. Yet dare I disregard her? We do not choose our destinies. Yet we must . . . we must do our duty, no? Great or small, we must do our duty.”
~ Stannis Baratheon, from A Song of Ice and Fire, speaking of Melisandre and her prophecies
My personal Take on this is Theon will now try and right his wrongs towards the Starks,since he was Reborn in the sea as is custom in the Iron Isles being baptised to the Drowned god.
davy,
My thoughts was Last Hearth or White Harbour.
Last Hearth if it is about Rickon at the Umbers, White Harbour if it is Littlefinger sending his army north across the sea.
Turncloak,
I think it can only be Arthur Dayne. Really the only person who fits the bill, especially the legendary sword bit — aaand, because the race isn’t specified, this also points to a Dornishman, who have been shown to be more ethnically diverse. Thus casting could be open to various ethnicities. So, this makes me hopeful that we’ll see the Tower of Joy in flashback/vision.
I would assume that the legendary fighter refers to Ser Arthur, but could it not be Azor Ahai with Lightbringer? I guess I wouldn’t describe him as a paragon of knighthood, but it seems almost as likely that Jon Snow is dead, but his spirit awakens the Azor Ahai of legend.
the band of outlaws are the broken men. septon meribald tells a story about broken men.
davy,
Or Manderly and Mormount is my guess
why don’t they have actor Robbie Coltrane play the Lord of the North.
Paul,
Absolutely ridiculous. Mel isnt going anywhere. She has not Met Arya again yet and she just became a POV character.
Arthur Dayne is the best guess, but is it specified how many episodes the role is for? It seems it’s for a major part, so it seems unlikely that the actor for Dayne would have more than one scene. I think it’d be more certain if we had a Howland Reed casting.
My only other thought is unlikely, but possibly Darkstar. Why they wouldn’t have introduced him in Season 5 though and why he would have the sword, I don’t know, but it’s in the right area?
Turncloak,
Or Randall Tarly?
Maybe Darkstar…
Turncloak,
If we’re getting Arthur Dayne we should be getting Howland Reed. He’s the only living survivor from the Tower of Joy.
Ser Simon the Stout,
I hope so.
Jonsnowed,
They do it all the time….
Alix the Direwolf,
Hunter: He’s a rough army officer on the hunt appearing in an action scene with main cast, in one episode.
One of the Northern Lords is clearly Mors (or a recast Jon) Umber, and I hope the other is Manderly.
But I think he will actually be a Karstark, whos “stronghold” is Karhold.
So, we will have the Umbers who are loyal to the Starks and the Karstarks which could go either way. In the books, there were pro-Bolton Karstarks (Arnolf and sons) and pro-Stark Karstarks (Harrion, Alys).
Arnolf was not a lord, though, it must be said. Still hoping for Manderly.
Could you post a link please?
Tried to find it on YouTube (takes ages on here) but couldn’t. Thanks.
Never mind.
Found it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RS9GeQRWW5s
Charlie has done a pretty good background on House Dayne (mostly Arthur) today if anyone is interested. I like his videos. 🙂
Jon’s Death:
As far as we can see, only Jon’s body is dead or about to be. If he is a warg, can he not make a warg’s leap to another body or to Ghost? That would keep his intellect/soul/mind going – either permanently or until his body could be healed by the Red Priestess Mel. In the books, a wildling warg did this transfer, although unsuccessfully in the end. The wildling’s death scene and Jon’s were very similar in the books…posing a potential parallel.
Also, is it possible that Jon will cross over to the dark (winter) side? He was assassinated at night. If not burned soon enough…could he become the 100th white walker?
Valaquen,
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/26/clive-mantle-shell-shocked-attack he got part of his ear bitten off last year so that may have something to do with it having to go to court and whatnot
Bard,
You called it!
TomasL,
Darkshit legendary fighter ? Hahahahha,you have got to be kidding me ! The wimp couldn’t even kill a little girl let alone fight someone .