Bran and Meera have been in quite a journey. Since she became his protector, her brother Jojen kicked the bucket, followed by Summer, the three-eyed raven, Leaf, and Hodor. And yet, Bran lives — Meera did her job! But is it done? Will she return before the end? And what does “the end” mean for Bran? How weird will things get for the new three-eyed raven in the final season? Isaac Hempstead Wright and Ellie Kendrick have the answers … well, perhaps not the answers, but they do have some answers!
Speaking to Time, Isaac is happy to speculate about what lies ahead for Bran. Since the character is so steeped in “magic stuff,” it’s no wonder these are crackpot theories:
“I like the idea that it’s actually a full circle and Bran becomes the Three-Eyed Raven that was in his dreams when he was younger,” he ventures. “I like the idea that it’s a deterministic, destiny driven thing where the old wise man went back in time as the Three-Eyed Raven to tell the young Bran to go north to the cave and it’s a paradox.”
It’s clear the young actor has fun with the theories, and it’s not a solitary experience for him: “My favorite fan interactions are always when someone has something to say about the show or some kind of theory, because I’m a big fan of the show as well,” he reveals. “I think I speak for the whole cast when I say that we all love this television series as much as everyone else does. So when someone comes up to me and gives me a theory or asks me my opinion on something, I love being able to talk about that.” And so do we!
In an interview in two parts with Metro, Ellie Kendrick looks back on Meera’s long journey with Bran, as well as her own with Isaac Hempstead Wright:
“It’s pretty amazing [that she’s survived so long] considering Meera’s faced off zombies, and starved in a cave and battled through the ice, I’m proud of her,” Kendrick tells Metro. “I do feel very lucky to have survived so far for four seasons. It feels like a rare privilege.”
Meera may be alive but her last appearance felt very much like a goodbye, and it did for the actors as well: “It was really sad on a personal level, because we had a little gang which dwindled further and further as the seasons went on,” Ellie laments. “It was a sad day to say farewell to young Isaac – not so young now and also very tall, which means he was so difficult to put on the sled, which I actually did, although he’s a lot taller than me.”
So, is that it for the Reed archer? Does she get to survive the wars to come off-screen or will we see her again? Kendrick not only admits she has “absolutely no idea what’s going to happen,” but that she doesn’t even yet know whether she’s back for the eighth and final season or if that cold farewell with Bran was the end for Meera Reed:
“[I’m not appearing] as far as I know. I don’t know. It’s funny because I always get asked, ‘What’s going to happen? Are you in it?’ Genuinely the truth is I don’t know. I wait for the phone to ring and then I find out, but it hasn’t rung so I don’t know. I’ll find out whether I am or not at some point, but for now I haven’t been notified so I’m yet to discover.”
Though I’d very much like Meera to return, her job was protecting Bran and she accomplished it. As far as I’m concerned, she gets to retire now. If it wasn’t for the almost cruel last scene with Bran, I’d be completely satisfied with her story being done. But will we get a better last scene with her? Filming is underway and Kendrick hasn’t been notified yet, so it’s not looking good. What do you guys think?
If you take what Kendrick says at face value, she’s definitely not back in Season 8. They would have told her by now (indeed, ideally they’d have let her know last year whether she should try to keep her schedule open).
Now, those hopeful of seeing Meera again can take hope in that it’s entirely possible Kendrick is obfuscating to try to preserve surprise.
Personally, I think the former is more likely, though.
Sean C.,
Agreed. There’s still a slim possibility, but this interview is certainly not good news for those who wanted her back. Myself among them.
I’ll take more Meera with a side of Ghost, please.
Howland and Meera’s happily-ever-after in the Crannogmen’s Neck just doesn’t sit well at all.
I am very certain Meera will be in season 8. I watch a lot of television/movies. All of the ques are there foreshadowing a return for her and her father too. I am going with my gut on this one. Edit: theres still a lot of filming to do. Even Isaac says he is in the dark still, so it makes sense for Ellie not to know yet (kind-of).
I think she will have a come back along with her father Howland Reed in S8…Howland Reed for to confirm the truth in Jon about his parentage and to die fighting for him and she for to continue to protect Bran during S8..because he may proved Azor Ahai reborn [with his intelligence/warging as lightbringer]and Hodor/Summer as his Nissa Nissa.Also for Bran i believe that he could be the end of the Night King..as he may to is the champion of the Lord Of Light[AA] and Night King the champion of the Great Other and they will fight in a ala Harry Potter VS Voldemort fighting[with their magic powers] style ending..It would be pretty spectacular…
I wouldn’t consider her return a necessary thing, but, what would it hurt (them) to have her around? When you think about it there probably will be a few other characters that aren’t going to be any more required than she could be. She does have firsthand experience with the NK and his army and some knowledge of what Bran has been through, which he doesn’t seem to feel like sharing in an understandable manner.
Two characters I deeply hope to see again are Meera and Jaqen H’ghar.
I like the idea of her goodbye being her last scene. It’s messed up but it is such a sad last scene I kinda think it would be a lot more interesting than, I dunno, dying while fighting zombies or something. The happy reconciliation or the sacrificial death would be the more predictable ending for her, but that’s why I find Brian’s cold goodbye to her to be more interesting.
Maybe I would feel differently if they developed the character more, but so far her biggest contribution to the quality of the series (at least for me) was her farewell scene, so I doubt another scene in S8 would be more impactful.
They should have given Meera a new costume for the farewell scene. It was really weird that Lady Reed was leaving Winterfell dressed in the same old rugs: Sansa should have found her a dress and a proper cape. And Meera trying to impress Bran with her new look just to face his ignorance would have added bitterness to the scene too.
I think my ‘problem’ with her departure was less about the goodbye to Bran than it was with the lack of interaction with anyone else at Winterfell. We could have used at least a short scene of her with Sansa to explain what they’d been through. At least that way Sansa (and any others present) could hear from another ‘sane’ person other than Jon and Tormund that the NK and his undead army are in fact real. Bran doesn’t share anything.
D&D seem to skip doing some scenes when characters explain things for other characters. We didn’t see Bran nor Meera share the reasons for separating from Rickon and Osha. We didn’t hear Sansa tell Bran what happened to them. There are many other instances. Many times it’s not necessary for the viewers but sometimes it does feel like it is for the story, and they could be some good scenes.
I think it would be absolutely wonderful to see Meera to return in the final season, because I love that character and I’ve loved Ellie Kendrick’s performance. That being said, if her farewell scene with Bran in Season 7 was her last on Game on Thrones, I’m content with it. Heartbreaking as it was, Bran and Meera’s goodbye was fitting for both characters at this point in their respective journeys, and quite beautiful in a tragic sort of way (Kendrick’s performance in particular during that scene was lovely).
Lady Meera Reed, White Walker slayer, will always be a character that has a special place in my heart, as will Ellie Kendrick for portraying her so indelibly. But narratively, I feel that Meera has done her part. I do not believe that she has been in any way disserviced, and I do not need to see her return in Season 8, with or without Howland Reed, for any reason other than it would bring a big smile to my face. The needs of the story take precedence over that outcome. So while I will hold out hope for the little crannogwoman’s return, I will be happy enough to know that she survived.
Jared,
I agree,it’s good to see a reasonable person that knows what he’s talking about in this fandom,it’s very rare to see this nowadays,it’s usually characters assassination,ruined this or that,bad writing and the usual repetitive drivel which is one reason i’m sort of glad the show is ending because you hardly get any meaningful discussions out of it anymore,i guess it was to be expected since that’s what happens with many shows late in their life but it’s still pretty sad .
I strongly believe that Meera will return in S8, she took Dark Sister (Blood Raven’s sword) when she left the cave. There is no evidence she left the Valarian steel sword at Winterfell.
Jared,
If Meera never returns…I’ll be content with the memory of her haunting plea: “Hold the door! Hold the door!”
Sheila H,
On the contrary, there is no indication that the random sword she picked up was Dark Sister. That’s a book fan theory that hasn’t even been hinted at in the show.
I could see them just having bran have a vision and be like the white walkers have moved past the neck….meera…
Sheila H,
This. It was just a junk steel sword she picked up at the mouth of the cave. We saw the sword she had tucked in her belt in later scenes and it’s garbage. If there was intention for her to be in possession of Dark Sister (on the show) I’d think they’d have tried to sneak in a more ornate sword.
Yeah she’s not coming back. She’d have been told by now, and as the article says-
She fulfilled her purpose in the plot.
Despite this, folks are still convinced she’ll be back in order to feed their fanstasies about Howland Reed.. when there’s zero need for this character now that Bran and Sam know about Jon.
I agree. Since there will be so many characters in WF at the beginning of S8, there is no need to introduce Howland Reed who wuldn’t serve any purpose in the story.
mau,
Not to mention,who the hell will be mad enough to get out of their castles now that the NK and his army are on the loose,it would be suicide ! And unlike Jon and his crew,they do not have plot armour,lol !
Will miss Meera. She deserved a better ending, but I agree, her purpose is most likely done at this point.
Usually when you leap from theory to fact there’s gotta be, ya know, an actual reason or evidence to support it. It’s amazing how theories turn into facts just like that. Shame! Shame! Shame!
well thats lame. but not that much, they can mention that she died or live during the war.
i want to know if the episodes will be indeed bigger , why no one ask this for the actors?? such bad reporters, if was a fan doing it we already had it since is not something to hide, just say, ´´oh yes they are´´ and make everyone happy or ´´no they are the same size´´ and everyone is ok, but just ask it, the actors by reading a script know if its longer or not.
OBS: And i hope other character that dont come back is Daario, such a horrible character on the screen.
Aguero,
Take this with a grain of salt because the actors don’t know everything, and at this stage neither does D&D, but here’s a quote from Liam Cunningham:
“[The episodes are] definitely going to be bigger and what I hear is longer,” says Cunningham, who begins work on the Emmy-winning series on Sunday with a table read in Belfast. “We’re filming right up until the summer. When you think about it, up until last season we’d have six months to do ten episodes, so we’re [doing] way more than that for six episodes. So that obviously will translate into longer episodes.”
Google is your friend.
Aguero,
How the hell would the actors know if the episodes are longer or not, they can’t just based on the script pages,hell even the writers don’t know,the filming has just begun,it’s impossible to know exactly how many minutes will end up being shown .
Mr Derp,
Thai is just his own speculation,just like that production member from the show who speculated that every episode will be movie lenght or something like that and every other article on major news sites took that as fact even though nothing was confirmed .
Captain Sparrow,
Hence my statement about taking what Liam said with a grain of salt.
I was really answering the part where he was upset that no one asked about it, saying something about bad reporting because no one asked. I was showing him that he was wrong about that.
One way to avoid having to answer questions on what’s going to happen next for your character just say your not involved. After all the the same cast were adamant that Jon Snow was dead. Who would you like to see play Howland Reed? I would like Clive Owen. Although probably too tall.
Captain Sparrow,
what? you CAN based in a script, i did theater performances and the time a read the script i know if it was longer or short than previous performances. of course in the screen have the edition, but in thrones almost every scene goes to the show.
Clob,
“…Usually when you leap from theory to fact there’s gotta be, ya know, an actual reason or evidence to support it.”
————————
To my knowledge, the only reference to Dark Sister on the show was by Arya, in one of her scenes with Tywin, in S2e7:
Arya: “Visenya Targaryen was a great warrior. She had a Valyrian steel sword she called Dark Sister. “
So if there’s any “theory” – tinfoil or otherwise, it should be that Arya somehow winds up with Dark Sister (unlikely since she’s already got “her” VS weapon).
Otherwise, they would’ve had Meera utter that line about Visenya T and Dark Sister.
Having said that, it’s too bad Ellie Kendrick hasn’t received “the call.” I really liked her portrayal of Meera.
PS I’m curious: Are supporting actresses and actors paid to be on “standby”? If not, they’d presumably move on to other projects. They’re not going to wait by the phone for a year, “hoping” they’ll get the call.
Aguero,
We’ll see when the episodes air. There’s no useful reason to make assumptions on episode length at this point.
Ten Bears,
And don’t forget that Dawn is yet another sword that’s apparently going to have some out-of-nowhere impact on the ending. Hell, perhaps Syrio Forel could be the one to wield it deux ex machina style out of nowhere right at the very end!
Mr Derp,
As much as I’m intrigued by “sword mythology”, I agree? with you that there probably won’t be any sword ex machina moments in S8. (I assume you were being facetious 🙄.)
Except… the show (eg Melisandre) has mentioned Lightbringer enough so that some “burning” sword will have to show up to be wielded by the Warrior of Light. [My tinfoil/wishful thinking: Beric teaches Sandor the flaming sword trick; maybe he winds up with Oathkeeper and ignites the blood he left on it in S4e10.]
*Removes tinfoil helmet* 👨🚀
It could be Syrio…or it could be the Waif. We didn’t see her die, either.
Or it could be….yeah, no. 🙂
Anyway, about Meera…………
Like Jared said, at least she survived.
Clob,
This sword looks pretty fancy to me:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ma8-pDnYDCTXVjejVCRnJYZTg/view
The COTF did not use steel weapons. The 3ER was the the last-know person to weild Dark Sister. What else could this sword be? I agree with Sheila!
Lyannabanna,
In the show the 3ER has no background. I’ve read Dunk&Egg so I know who he is in the books. But I don’t think they will suddenly add that in the show.
I’m a bit sad for her, I think she deserved a better ending. But I’m not surprised (as Mau said, in the leaked scripts for Season 7, D&D explicitly said that Meera’s farewell scene with Bran was her last one in the show).
Ten Bears,
We have never found that out. Tho once example may be Tobias Menzies who has really been busy lately but showed up in season 6, tho that could have been for like two days shooting. Eddison Tollett showed up for one single brief! scene in season 7 that might have been one day of shooting. I think they are paid a fixed amount on contract for a season no matter how little they work, contracts probably say , if it’s over a certain amount of screen time , more pay. We know that Natalie Dormer was preemptive for season 6 since she had roles elsewhere she needed to commit to. I also wonder how much Gwendoline Christie gets , she is now ‘marquee’ in another series and that changes contracts.
That’s a shame. I’ve been a big fan of Meera’s (and Ellie Kendrick’s) for years now and I’ve always regarded Meera as Thrones’ biggest example of an unsung hero. I’m disappointed at the odds here but I’ll learn to live with it.
Hi Friends please do not get so worked up about a suggestion that Meera might be in possession of Dark Sister. First, Blood Raven was the last person to carry the sword. He went to the Wall, became Lord Commander then disappeared beyond The Wall to become the Three Eyed Raven. Perhaps he took said sword with him? Second, Meera grabbed what seemed like a random sword when she exited the cave, however, the sword was sheathed in a fancy scabbard when we next saw it in S6 E6. Third, there were seven different shots of the sword between the 46th and 48th minute of the episode. Perhaps it had no significance but it would be awesome to have another VSS to bring to the fight.
I don’t think there has been a ‘major’ speaking role character who has just vanished?
I mean there still is mystery surrounding Syrio Forel , but that’s kind of different. (I was hoping his story would be resolved.)
There was a Dothraki blood rider Kovarro , appeared in 8 episode season 2, then utterly disappeared before season 3. (Danny still has no speaking role Dothraki in her court, tho Qhono appeared again in season 7 , I guess he is ‘leader’ of the Dothraki?
Essos: A lot of characters there , we know Tycho Nestoris is back, man what role does he really play? What about Jaqen H’ghar? What about Darrio? We know we get something with Volantis? Anybody have a track on Ania Bukstein? My sense of things is that the invasion of THE DEAD is such a threat that even Essos will get involved.
Didn’t we hear that the S8 episodes might be 90 min. long?
Man! I never noticed that, that is not a ‘junk’ sword!
Apollo,
Well, there would be a need if the producers were committed to the same standards of earlier seasons. But they’re now at the shortcut stage where anybody will simply believe anything that anybody says simply because the plot requires them to.
Should Jon’s real parentage be revealed to everybody then Howland Reed would be the utmost authority on the matter, since he was actually there at the Tower of Joy, he was Ned Stark’s friend, he is a loyal Stark bannerman, and so on.
He’s a more reliable source than Sam – who can only confirm that Rhaegar and Lyanna married.
And he’s a more reliable source than Bran – a teenage boy who went missing for years, now claims to see visions and would most likely be considered “touched” (to quote Greatjon Umber), ie. mad, in Westerosi society.
But, just like that awful conclusion to the Sansa/Arya/Littlefinger plot last season, the producers will probably decide that Bran’s word alone is all that’s necessary to convince everybody of everything that’s needed to move the plot forward.
I’m not desperate to see Howland Reed. I’m not a book reader, so he really doesn’t matter to me the way he does to people who’ve been musing on how R+L=J could be revealed for a couple of decades.
But there was a point not so long ago in this show’s history where the appearance of Howland Reed seemed entirely logical and necessary. And then Season 7 happened and it became clear that the producers were barrelling towards the conclusion, leaving large chunks of logic, detail and consistency by the wayside.
Maybe I’m doing them a disservice and they won’t completely flub the reveal of Jon’s true parentage and any ensuing drama. Maybe it won’t simply come down to Bran saying, “It’s true. I saw it in a vision”. Or maybe Jon’s parentage will never be revealed publicly, in which case there really would be no need for Howland Reed.
But to say that there’s zero need for Howland Reed, the only living first-hand witness to Jon’s presence at the Tower of Joy, is just a capitulation to lower standards of storytelling.
Lyannabanna,
That’s Benjen’s sword.
It’s pretty much the same as the sword he was carrying in Season 1. And he was still carrying it when he rescued Jon in Season 7.
Plus it’s not the sword Meera was using in the escape from the cave.
Nor is it the rusty old sword she was carrying when she and Bran arrived at The Wall in Season 7.
In the scene that picture’s taken from, Meera’s sword is propped against a different tree.
Ramsay's 20th Good Man,
Oh,i was wondering when will your type arrive to spout the usual drivel,thanks for not dissappointinh and providing the total and insightful comment that we totally needed and didn’t hear 1000 times before .
Clob,
That’s my biggest problem with Meera’s departure too. It’s one of many examples of the abandonment of the commitment to detail and character focus.
Other examples include Jaime and Tyrion’s rushed and soulless reunion. The flippant way they addressed Tyrion’s role in Matthos Seaworth’s death. The scant illustration of Jon and Daenerys’ burgeoning relationship. And so on.
A scene between Meera and Sansa, for example, could have served as a good opportunity to illustrate Sansa’s qualities as Lady of Winterfell, give her a further heads-up on the Army of the Dead and contextualise Bran’s situation. Perhaps Brienne could’ve been involved in this scene too, since she had next to nothing to do for most of the season and barely seems to have developed any relationship with Sansa at this stage.
The story still functions without this sort of added detail and character focus, but it doesn’t feel as rich and compelling without it.
Once upon a time I bought into the excuse about production and budgetary restrictions limiting the focus of Season 7 (and I still do to a certain extent).
But when you find out that, for example, the producers insisted on wasting time and money on a prohibitively expensive and time-consuming CGI polar bear that nobody wanted, needed or would’ve missed; yet they fail to illustrate the same level of commitment to the relationships and characters that they once did, then it’s hard to look beyond the likelihood that the producers have just completely misplaced their priorities.
And as a result, you end up with longstanding characters like Meera just meekly shuffling off stage with a whimper, apparently never to be seen again, and the story somehow doesn’t feel as fulfilling anymore.
Captain Sparrow,
Nobody forced you to read it. There’s really no need to get so upset about other people’s opinions. What do you think you’re achieving with that little rant?
If you disagree, feel free to just ignore it instead of going out of your way to be unnecessarily abusive. Should everything written on this site have to conform with your point of view?
Grow up.
mau,
I hope you are right. Meera was a character I found particularly dull.
Thank the Gods for someone with a rational argument!
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
You’re right—that IS Benjen’s sword! Sorry for the confusion (mine LOL). This is the sword that she picked up at the cave entrance (without the scabbard):
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2ma8-pDnYDCNFhxSzU5ZE8wc1U
It looks to me like that same one she had at Benjen’s campsite and Castle Black:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hmqY4oVZpK-FKlowiPEN3jOhYHgXvBsk
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1F1RdZ5r9jDbVg64KT5uS8RvkNqWyfKxp
P.S. Is it rust or VS?
TBH, I don’t give a monkey’s toss whether Meera (Ellie Kendrick) comes back in S8. She played her part well eventually getting Bran back to Castle Black which was an achievement in itself after losing her brother Jolen and Hodor in the process.
I must admit, I did find her final goodbye scene with Bran somewhat terse, but he was not the same person she had traveled with for so long after his encounter and training sessions with the Three Eyed Raven. Bran showed little emotion when Meera departed. I was not surprised she was somewhat pissed off when all he could say was a simple – ‘Thank you”.
Her reply “Brandon Stark died in that cave” pretty much sums it up. So I’d be very surprised if Meera makes an appearance in S8.
Also as others have mentioned, I would have thought actors appearing in S8 would have been contacted by now. If Ellie Kendrick says she has not been contacted, it pretty much confirms that her role in GoT is over.
Clob,
Totally agreed. To your points I would add that personally, I was really looking forward to seeing an interaction between her and Edd, since they are both children of minor houses who have seen the terrors of the North and proven their bravery time and time again. I felt robbed. I realize such a scene wouldn’t have advanced the plot in any way… but given how much of the richness of GoT has been derived from such scenes, I was sorely disappointed. Ditto for Winterfell.
Sean C.,
But… but… but… Don’t crush my dreams, Sean!!!
Ten Bears,
Keep tinfoil helmet on. Is entertaining for spectators and fellow conspiracists.
Ramsay's 20th Good Man,
THIS.
(To everyone: My apologies for all the comments I’m going to post all at once, while desperately attempting to catch up with my fellow Watchers.)
That would be odd if the show just said goodbye to Kendrick without some kind of send off. She’s been on the show since S3. But since they’ve had cast readings and started shooting, and she still d doesn’t know, I guess Meera is out (and Howland, too).
Ramsay's 20th Good Man,
No, it’s lower standards of storytelling to just have character in the last season almost out of nowherw whose only purpose would be to be confirm one information, which is game chanhing infornation for the story.
It is very easy for Bran to prove that his powers are real.
mau,
And it’s far more powerful for Jon to hear the truth from his brother and best friend than some random extra.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
In which universe CGI polar bear and Meera’s role in the story are related?
It’s like complaints from S4 that LSH or Tysha were cut because of CGI sceletons.
“If it wasn’t for the almost cruel last scene with Bran, I’d be completely satisfied with her story being done. But will we get a better last scene with her? Filming is underway and Kendrick hasn’t been notified yet, so it’s not looking good. What do you guys think?”
I agree, her last scene was almost cruel, even on the writer’s part, much less the total disinterest they had Bran show, almost to the point of being “don’t let the door hit you in the ass.”
Ellie played Meera perfectly. If indeed that last scene was her farewell scene, both the actress and the character deserved a better sendoff. It could have been Sansa thanking her for all the care Meera showed Bran, or showing Meera leaving with one of the Winterfell guards and some supplies of food to see her safely home, treatment that would befit the daughter of one of their bannermen. Nothing. I hope she comes back for a scene or two in the wrap-up. If not, farewell, Ellie/Meera, you did your job with courage and class.
As much as I did like this season, there were some gaps where more emotion should have been. Imho, there should have been a tad more sentimentality with Meera, a tad more with Hotpie’s reappearance, rather than Arya’s Oh Hi, a tad more sentimentality with Nymeria. It wouldn’t have hurt or diluted anything, and may have added immensely to our feeling that even though these characters have to come to some terrible decisions, that life in Westeros isn’t totally devoid of humanity yet. The NK and WW (and Cersei, for the most part) are devoid of humanity. Our characters shouldn’t have to be.
Yes, as though D&D are in a hurry, which is understandable, and they are opting for what is quick and serviceable rather than something a bit more filled-in. Like low thread-count sheets, which are serviceable, but not nearly as satisfying or sensually appealing as the ones with more threads.
Dude, who are you again? I don’t consider anything Ramsay’s 20th Good Man writes or has written as drivel, while you are becoming annoying. This group is amazingly balanced in its praise of the show as opposed to logging in objections to some aspects. The objections that are lodged are put forth in a reasonable way, which makes this site more interesting and thought-provoking for the rest of us.
And you are the only one criticizing the other posters – except for me now being annoyed with you and telling you to either lodge a reasonable, thoughtful opinion of the SHOW or leave the rest of us be.
Stoneheart,
Yes
Thronetender,
I would be grateful if you stopped saying such things as if they were the absolute truth, and not merely an opinion. For myself, I prefer the sparse, minimalistic elegance of a plot that is not filled with extraneous scenes over a… Trump Tower. DnD don’t include the scenes of “people explaining things to people” simply because these scenes bring nothing new – we’ve seen the things they are explaining already – while they slow down the show. Do you really want to go back to the pacing of Season 2, where it took Stannis an entire season to attack Blackwater, or the boredom of the wilding plot in Season 4?
The only reason why scenes like these are important is if the reaction of the person being informed is somehow productive and important. And if that’s the case, we do get these scenes.
I almost always include the IMHO tag, which is supposed to mean In my humble opinion. I included it in my Meera post. Isn’t that enough for you or are you feeling cranky this morning?
It is my opinion that some of those scenes could have used a little more filling out, and also that Meera’s sendoff should have been a bit more than it was. How does that offend or upset you? No, I don’t want things dragged out, but I’m not saying that there should have been multiple long scenes to do the things I said, only a few little connection scenes. Other posters have said the same, other posters have said what was there was enough. I posted what I thought. I thought that’s what we were here for.
Thronetender,
I agree. I like the luxurious high thread count sheets analogy. 😀
And when it comes to characters’ sharing information, if a natural human interaction would entail one character updating the other, than NOT including such a conversation takes me out of the immersion. It’s kind of why I thought it was weird that out of Beric, Sandor, Thoros, and Gendry, not one of them said anything to Jon about Arya.
PS I blame the unsatisfying Arya-Nymeria scene on the director aka Mr. Blurry Background.
Yaga,
You wrote to Thronetender:
“I would be grateful if you stopped saying such things as if they were the absolute truth, and not merely an opinion..”
———————————
Yaga…I’ve read and enjoyed many of your posts for a long time, even when I don’t agree with them. You also have to know that Thronetender is always dignified and polite in these comment sections.
You know, there’s nothing wrong with apologizing for unfortunate word choices, and moving on…
Rickon! As far as the narrative goes , it just seems plain weird that Arya does not know of the demise of Rickon, maybe Bran can ‘see’ it. In terms of the story it’s like “Rickon? Nobody you care about.”
And we still don’t know why Art had zero dialog in his last season. Why was that?
I love Meera Reed and Ellie Kendrick’s portrayal of her! Sadly, I think we’ve seen the last of her. I’d thought she might be used to introduce the older Howland Reed, who, as someone who was actually there, could corroborate Bran’s and Sam’s info on Jon’s parentage and legitimacy. However, I think we’re unlikely to see the older Howland Reed because the show seems to be streamlining a lot and HR perhaps isn’t strictly necessary.
Meera’s and Bran’s last scene was sad. I have no problem with their interaction, it kind of drove the point home of what Bran has become. To gain these amazing supernatural powers, which might prove crucial in humanity’s fight for survival, Bran himself becomes “dehumanized” to the extent that he’s cold and emotionless towards his closest companion and friend of many years. Heartbreaking, yet bittersweet.
I don’t even wish there had been a scene or two of Meera interacting with Sansa or other WF folk. However, I really would have wanted Meera to have a new, clean, warm outfit for the scene!! The implication being that Sansa, Lady of Winterfell, gave it to her, the further implication being that Meera and Sansa had met and talked off-screen. Further implication that Sansa is a good ruler, taking care of and rewarding loyal bannermen. IMHO, you don’t need explicit scenes between Meera and Sansa to show this, a new outfit would’ve implicitly demonstrated this. The ragged rabbit furs kind of show Sansa in a bad light. Maybe she didn’t give two figs about her bannerman’s daughter who protected her brother for years? Huh? Kind of goes against what Sansa was saying to Jon in e1 or e2, that loyal bannermen should be rewarded and the not so loyal ones punished.
Lyannabanna,
So wait… Meera didn’t have a sword on the way north to the 3ER’s treehouse, right? She used a spear. I think. (I’ll have to go look at that fight with the wights just before reaching the cave in S4e10.) She killed the WW in S6e5 with a spear if I recall.
That sword leaning against the tree in that picture you linked … was a souvenir she hurriedly picked up on the way out of the cave?
Well, in the show the 3ER does say more than once that he’s been waiting for Bran for “a thousand years.” I don’t know if that conflicts with his books backstory; I suspect it does (???)
Sheila H,
Sorry. 😧. I didn’t read what you wrote before writing what I posted three minutes ago (re: Bloodraven and Dark Sister).
I’m still curious about show! 3ER’s “1,000 years” quotes.
Thronetender,
Wow,looks like someone is really butthurt by the truth . I say what i want i want about people that i feel are wrong ok,just because you have an opinion doesn’t you have a shield around you,so mind your own bussiness and stop being an interweb wannabe lawyer !
Ten Bears,
He’s not very polite when he’s telling people how to act or how to say their views .
O’ Captain, my Captain!
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man’s comment was not “drivel.” It was well-reasoned and informative. It certainly did not contain any personal atracks.
Let’s keep the discourse civil, shall we?
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
I would ignore it if there was an ignore option on this site,alas,there is isn’t,so i’m stucked reading your useless drivel even involuntary,i don’t always look at the username when i’m reading the comments and by the time i figure out who wrote it,i’m already infected by the cancerous trash,you are cancer and nobody likes cancer .
Ten Bears,
How many times do i have to say that i have no tolerance for these type of people,nor do i want to be civil with them ?
Ten Bears,
Book spoiler 3ER
No. It is not okay. You should not say “what [you] want [you] want about people [you] feel are wrong” if it devolves into personal insults and invective. That may be appropriate for YouTube comment sections. Not here.
I disagree quite often with people who post here. They disagree with me. But they are always polite and respectful. I try to reciprocate.
Why not take courtesy for a test drive? You may be surprised how much mileage you get out of it.
Thronetender,
Please don’t strawman. The Meera post is irrelevant. This is the post I was replying to:
Yes, as though D&D are in a hurry, which is understandable, and they are opting for what is quick and serviceable rather than something a bit more filled-in. Like low thread-count sheets, which are serviceable, but not nearly as satisfying or sensually appealing as the ones with more threads.
All of this is only your opinion, yet you present it as though it’s an objective truth. Hence my comparison. If you feel entitled to compare a simple, streamlined plot to a “low thread-count sheet”, I should be entitled to compare your idea to the Trump Tower with all its goldleaf excesses, should I not?
Ten Bears,
As you can see, Thronetender has just pretended that I was referring to a different post than I was. This is no civility.
Look, all that I’m asking for is a couple I-statements. Is it really that difficult?
mau,
First of all, I’m not talking about Howland Reed telling Jon. I’m talking about Howland Reed being able to provide testament to The North, to Jon, to whomever requires actual proof that what Bran claims is true.
Anyway, Bran hasn’t proven his powers. We’re just obliged to assume that he’s proven them somehow off-screen, since on-screen everybody now blindly believes his word.
That’s not good storytelling, no matter how you want to dress it up.
And they needn’t have had to introduce Howland Reed out of nowhere. He could’ve been introduced at any point over the last couple of seasons, when they’ve specifically had gatherings of the Northern Lords at Winterfell.
They even pointed him out specifically during the Tower of Joy flashback in Season 6, as if his presence there held particular relevance. Perhaps it still does.
He could’ve been at Winterfell when his presumed dead daughter turned up alive. And that could’ve provided some added emotional resonance and closure that Meera’s departure was missing, in my opinion.
If they do introduce him in Season 8 then, yes, it will feel out of the blue and potentially completely incongruous.
And that’s the real problem. It’s about moving away from the consistency of the world that’s been created and commitment to detail, which resulted in compelling storytelling.
Deus ex Bran – who can answer all questions, dispel all doubts and confirm all revelations – isn’t good storytelling. Especially when you don’t take the time to actually prove his powers to characters who are supposed to believe in them.
And especially if – when you have a real, non-magical character, mentioned a number of times over the years, who you have opportunities to seamlessly introduce, and whom can provide first-hand testament to the veracity of the story’s biggest twist –
you choose the mystical Bran plot device over the testimony of a man who was actually physically there.
Like I said earlier, I’m not desperate to see Howland Reed, but I think he could have been necessary for credible and consistent storytelling.
Hopefully I’m getting ahead of myself and however/if they reveal Jon’s true parentage it’s handled strongly. But after the superficiality of Season 7, I’m sceptical. We’re now more likely to get the pared down version where everybody blindly believes Bran because that’s what’s required to get the plot over and done with.
Blimey, this post ended up pretty long. I don’t think I can be bothered to say much more on this subject, so if anybody replies don’t be surprised if I don’t come back to ya 🙂
Ten Bears,
I second you re. Thronetender‘s high thread count analogy. I think the earlier season’s had “a higher thread count”, but then the showrunners were working from a full bale. Now they’ve had to work from several fluffs of disparate concentrations of fibre, with GRRM giving them some crucial plot points and the ultimate ending.
I still like the show more than just about any other TV show (Shogun is my benchmark) but the earlier seasons definitely have a different “feel” than the past couple of seasons – not necessarily a “worse” feel, just different.
And yes, I find it a bit odd that out of the 5 of the “Magnificent Seven” who had a connection to Arya – even a very personal and deep one – and 4 knew of these connections – not one mentioned her.
I loved the Sandor/Brienne exchange before the Dragonpit, why didn’t the showrunners include something similar in the beyond the Wall scenes? Something in passing amongst the four, not necessary with Jon (which would arguably be a bigger, more emotionally packed scene, more emotional than the Jon/Jorah sword scene), instead of going with the Tormund/Brienne/Sandor levity? Don’t get me wrong, I liked that, too, but come on, who’s the more important character, Brienne or Arya?
Yaga,
What is an “I statement”?
Excerpted from the site’s moderation policy (FAQ page):
“WatchersOnTheWall.com has an open commenting policy for the most part, but personal attacks on other commenters are not permitted.”
I take off my shoes if my host requests when I’m a visitor in someone else’s home. While it might be entertaing to read insults and counterinsults on sites that have an “anything goes, free for all” policy, this is not such a place. My host’s rules apply.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
No need to come back and reply. Very well said!
I noticed last season that some of the Maesters at the Citadel openly laughed about warnings of WWs from a crippled boy and a magic bird. That made me wonder why anything Bran said he learned from a “vision” would be accepted as gospel truth by anyone (eg, at LF’s “trial”).
As for Howland Reed: As you noted, they “even pointed him out specifically during the Tower of Joy flashback in Season 6, as if his presence there held particular relevance.”
The only reason for Howland Reed NOT to appear is if (*dons tinfoil hat*) Bran and Sam realize it would be prudent to keep the secret of Jon’s parentage from everyone – including Jon.
You probably saw responding comments after you posted, but…
The sword leaning against the tree in the picture is Benjen’s. He can be seen wearing it in other scenes he’s in. He can also be seen wearing it when he leaves them near the Wall so he didn’t give it to her either.
If we want to track the origins of the sword Meera has I believe it’s just a rusty old sword of a skeletal wight that they fought upon arriving at the cave. The ones that shattered chasing them through the magic barrier dropped their swords there, and with assumption were later propped against the wall by cotf. She grabs one of those swords while running back into the cave when the NK attacks. Watching Meera through that fight she puts that sword down to stick the WW with the spear but picks it back up and has it the rest of the way while escaping.
Sam and Bran are enough to reveal and confirm Jon’s parentage. I don’t think you’d need Howland Reed at this point and by the looks of D&D’s outlines from last season, Meera won’t be coming back.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
I disagree with everything.
Well damn, this thread turned into a dumpster fire faster than it took Gendry to run back to Eastwatch.
I don’t disagree that he hasn’t necessarily proven his abilities. However, as he’s learning more control it’s becoming very easy for him to do so with each person individually if necessary. The only objection then would be to question his honesty in telling what he sees. I don’t know if anybody would claim that he’s lying if/when he tells the truth about Jon though considering Sam knows (or has) collaborating information and it would probably splinter the Stark family more to make up such a story.
Clob,
So…LF’s jetpack was attached to Benjen’s sword so that Meera had it to lean against a tree…then it flew back to Benjen in time for him to have it when he did his 30-second Jon rescue cameo in S7e6? Or was that photo of the ornate sword leaning against the tree next to Meera and Bran during the scene when Benjen bids them farewell?
Damn. I’m confused. 😳
Clob,
I mean the whole idea that we had to see Bran showing his powers to every minor character and extra in WF is something I can’t agree with.
We saw him do that to Sansa, Arya and LF. Every big character in WF.
LOL. Thank you for reminding us, TB. Friends, let’s all get along. This is probably still the most civilised place on the Internet to discuss or even argue about GoT. We need to keep it that way. I respect all the people I get into disagreements with…especially the ones who support their contentions well. Which reminds me, I miss Acme and Wimsey’s brilliant analyses. I hope they return.
As to the topic, I doubt we’ll peera Meera again.
Ellie Kendrick animated an undersung but hardworking character, giving her dignity, value, and our sympathies. And several of you brought up Arya not being given so much as a name-check among the Magnificent-but-forgetful 7, of whom five knew her, two very well. This is especially unforgivable for Gendry, who wanted Jon to relate to him and mentioned their fathers’ connection but not their own?! Bloody hell! (Secretly, I fear this could portend D&D setting up the unthinkable that a few people have thought–that Sansa gets Gendry. Assuming character survival, Gendry will probably become Lord Baratheon (the only way Sansa the Snob would even consider him) and Sansa will be at minimum Lady of Winterfell , possibly more. And Arya, who’s suffered so much on behalf of family, friends, and innocents, will get nothing. ) IMO, the only justification of this lapse would be enhancing the S8 joys of Arya, Sandor, Gendry, Beric, and of course Jon reuniting , and the men discovering that they had her in common all along.
mau,
As is your right. To be honest, I’m relieved that you didn’t break down every aspect of my comment that you disagreed with, because it means I don’t feel compelled to reply to every point. So thanks for that. 😉
We disagree. That’s fine. That’s allowed. It’s a shame that other individuals using this site have yet to grasp that concept.
Ten Bears,
That’s a good point about the maesters scoffing at the idea of “magic birds talking to cripples”, because it demonstrates the in-universe cynicism towards Bran’s powers. Yet a couple of episodes later Bran’s words are taken as gospel evidence in Littlefinger’s trial and execution.
Obviously the maesters’ cynicism was meant to illustrate how out of touch and close-minded they have become. And we may get an ‘I told you so’ moment in Season 8 when the Night King destroys the Citadel or something like that.
But the likes of Yohn Royce and Robett Glover haven’t exactly been depicted as the most open-minded and trusting characters either. Sansa even mentions that Lord Glover would march his men home if given the slightest opportunity. That doesn’t sound like the attitude of somebody who wholeheartedly believes in the doom-laden visions of his teenage liege lord.
All I’m saying is that I think there are ways to iron out these sorts of inconsistencies and create a richer narrative, which the producers seemed to abandon last season.
Or, as you point out, it may be that I’m jumping the gun and they’ve neglected this particular element because they don’t intend to publicly reveal Jon’s true identity at all. I guess we’ll find out eventually. But after my disappointment with Season 7 I can’t help but be sceptical about what we can expect.
Ten Bears,
“I think”, “I believe”, “in my opinion”, “I feel”. This type of phrases which helps contextualise the discussion by pointing out the subjectivity of the following phrase.
“ADWD is a bore.” <– this statement implies an objective truth, a fact.
"I think that ADWD is a bore." <– this statement is softer and implies subjectivity.
Sometimes you can get a sort of general feeling ("some/many people think that ADWD is a bore"). But then, you probably should have some good source for that.
Yep, you are right, Sansa was all into being the Lady of Winterfell – she would have done something kindly for Meera.
I did not – I said “as though.” “As though” is a qualifier, you used it in your own argument. And the reason I mentioned Meera’s post was because you didn’t mention the thread-count comment, you said something about adding scenes that would drag out the season.
I hope they don’t decide to do that, one of the things I’m looking forward to in the last season is to see everyone’s reactions to the news, especially Jon’s.
I just wanted you to know I read this in Margaery’s voice and will now forever believe she was Ramsay’s 20th good “man”. xD
Thread-count? What a perfect and original analogy! Well done. There’s been much about needing scenes. Gods, we’ve been needing scenes to enrich or–worse–piece together the story clearly since Season 5. Sometimes it’s a matter or logic–logically, Beric, Thoros and Gendry who were all together with Arya should have had a “Hey, any of you chaps know whatever became of the Stark girl?” Never mind. But when the ellipses hurt the storytelling and turn us all into creative mental jigsaw players who’ve had to make sense out of many plots with missing pieces… seeing the whole picture is a real challenge. I’ve worked out the High Sparrow, Braavos, and Winterfell plots plus some the whys of the Wight hunt to my own satisfaction, but only after several re-watches, some research, and some speculation. Cor blimey! We know D&D want to put paid to the show, but they’re leaving us to grope our way through the Long Night.
Quinton O’Connor,
And so will I now
talvikorppi,
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. Uuuggghhh, I’ll be so vexed if that’s the last we see of Meera, and not only because I’d love to see Greywater Watch. As other commenters have noted about Sansa, Meera has no supernatural powers. She’s a quiet heroine whose only source of strength is her own incredible will. One of the many reasons I love both the books and show is because of the care given to minor characters, beyond their importance to the story; to toss that to the wind in the interest of finishing the series at a faster pace is folly, imho. If that’s what I wanted to read or watch, I’d go back to the Brothers Grimm. (Mind you, I love the Grimms’ tales… but that sort of storytelling is not what I watch GoT for.)
Mr Derp,
LMAOOO!!!
[swigs more Dornish red]
I decided to pop onto the site and see what’s going on with filming or whatever. Some of you take yourselves much too seriously. And the series as well tbh. Lighten up. And be tolerant of other’s opinions. After all, we aren’t saving the whales or inventing the cure for cancer here.
ygritte,
The latest update on filming is that the crew took a hiatus from filming season 8 so they could focus more of their time and energy on saving the whales and curing cancer. That’s why season 8 will take so long to finish. Where have you been?!? 🙂
She’ll be back. It could be the briefest of appearances, but she will. ☺
Calling it now: we’ll see her in one scene where she cameos as a wight.
Wolfish,
I agree, for me the secondary or tertiary characters are often my favourites, who build the world’s verisimilitude.
I can imagine Meera and Howland arriving in WF as refugees, but it’s unlikely. While I appreciate Bran’s cold character development in Meera’s farewell scene, I wish she had been given new clothes to show she was valued as an honoured guest at WF.
I think Ellie is lying. Isaac too. I think HBO has directed EVERYONE to divert from the final story, as often as possible. They may even be intentionally sending cast members out to deliver messages to mislead and confuse us. They have spent too much time in strategy sessions crafting their plan to obstruct spoilers and leaks, not to be doing SOMETHING creative. Like the Jon Snow death lies everyone had to tell. Or the fake scenes that were done last year when spy drones were flying. This years spoiler blocking efforts will be MAGNIFIED! They both know the end of the story. Their parts might be so brief, they can be filmed indoors in a day.
Does anyone else feel it’s very weird i.e. not the whole truth that Ellie Kendrick doesn’t know if she will be back or not? I suspect she’s more trying not to give anything away right now.
Ah, but I wonder if Howland Reed has not been something of a red-herring all of this time. Indeed, I wonder if maybe he’s been a “Mt. Molehill”: something that we fans have built up over the years far beyond what the books or show themselves built up.
We certainly have fallen victim to it before. Think of how many photons and electrons we have have wasted over the decades debating who the 3 Riders would be: and now it appears that there never were going to be 3 Riders! Well, we never were promised them: it was our extrapolation! It was not a bad extrapolation, but it also was not one that necessarily followed from what we were told.
Now, the fact that the series has one Mt. Molehill does not mean that this other candidate is one. However, it does show that they exist. I do wonder if we fans often lose not just the forest for the trees, but the forest for the shadows on the leaf litter.
We hear this every year, though. And with the big exception of Jon not being dead (where it was obvious that Harrington was going to say “I’m gone” regardless of the outcomes), it does not pan out.
It gives away nothing more to the story for Kendricks to tell us that Meera is returning than it does for any of the other actors that we know are returning. Meera is (fan conspiracy theories aside) a bit character, after all.
That particular Northern rite is new to me. Moreover, why would she have need them? Clearly the clothes she had were adequate for the winter, and she didn’t need gowns just then.
Wimsey,
Lol, I was thinking more of Arya’s WF style ensemble. I just meant it would be a visual clue that she had been acknowledged in some way..
The three dragon riders could still be correct i.e. Dany, Jon and Nights King.
I hope you are right I’m just glad we are a couple of months into filming and nothing has yet leaked of note.
In the meantime I’m scratching around looking for other shows until S7 comes out on Blu-Ray and I can watch it all again.