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With the Game of Thrones season 5 finale still fresh in everyone’s minds, we’re all once again struggling to grasp the reality that is the nine month wait for the next episode.
To help you along in the meantime, we’ve compiled some post-finale reviews.
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau sat down with the folks behind the Making Game of Thrones blog, and set out to break down Jaime’s Dornish excursion:
As always with Jaime, he’s acting on impulse. He feels constrained in King’s Landing. He has to do something about it… The plan was reckless and maybe naïve. The whole trip hasn’t panned out the way he hoped it would.
On Doran Martell:
[Jaime] has huge respect for the man, there’s no question about it. I think he’s relieved to meet a guy who’s actually talking sense, who’s smart and understands the political ramifications of this alliance between the Lannisters and the Martells.
On Ellaria killing Myrcella and Jaime attempting to kill Bran:
The fact that Ellaria blames the Lannisters for the Mountain killing Oberyn is just wrong. Oberyn only has himself to blame. He had every opportunity to finish the Mountain – he just didn’t do it. Ellaria’s in such an extreme state of pain that she just wants revenge.
In my mind, Jaime’s reason for what he did to Bran was much clearer. There’s no question that if that kid had told anyone what he saw, that would be the end of Cersei and the kids. They would have all been killed. Ellaria is avenging her own pain, in a way.
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Maisie Williams also spoke with Making Game of Thrones, elaborating on her belief that Arya is in the middle of an identity crisis as she kills Meryn Trant:
She’s having a pretty f**ked up identity crisis. It has been a relief for her to let go of this anger and pain – to become No One and leave it all behind. But she has a big change the moment where she sees the Baratheon guards.
Meryn’s death is a lot more thought out and close to home. Shooting that scene was a really intense day. It was just not a pleasant scene for anyone. Ian [Beattie, who plays Meryn Trant] was really struggling with all the prosthetics. He was a real trooper about it all, but it wasn’t easy… It shows a more psychotic side to Arya. The brutality and fierceness is quite a change in the Arya from earlier episodes this year.
She also explained how her final scene this season was filmed:
It was very, very complicated. It was madness, actually, when I think about what we did. I had a body double on set that day. You know the cloak that Jaqen was wearing? They made the hood of the cloak out of wire. It was rigid, so the fabric wouldn’t move and fall about. Then each different person would lie into the rigid cloak, and they’d shoot my hand doing the motion of taking off the face. Then I got in, and my double did the hand motion over me. So I met, like, seven different people all for three seconds each. They cut it all together in post-production to made it look like they were taking off faces.
In an interview conducted before season 5, Gwendoline Christie exchanged some words with Entertainment Weekly on the topic of gender equality in the show:
What this show is doing is shining a light on women and has an exploration of female characters that has rarely been approached before—and I applaud that. Yes, those scenes are difficult, and they should be difficult. They should further illuminate human consciousness about how we interact as human beings.
In an interview with Flicks and the City, Rupert Vansittart confirmed that his character, Yohn Royce, will return in season 6. He mentioned his filming dates are in July and December. It looks as though we haven’t seen the last of the Vale!
Finally, Art Parkinson also briefly spoke with Flicks at Collectormania. Unfortunately, he couldn’t divulge anything about Rickon.
A man enjoyed these interviews.
I wonder if Bronze Yohn will be joining Littlefinger on his march to seize Winterfell from the Boltons. I really hope they’ll go straight to that and not have Littlefinger hanging around in the Vale trying to convince them to do it for an episode or two.
Oooh I have a feeling their going to recast Rickon. That interview wasn’t too promising.
Robb Snow,
I don’t think we’ll see the Vale as such. I think we’ll get a surprise appearance of Littlefinger in the North… with an army of the Knights of the Vale, including Lord Royce. This probably will happen in the books as well, if Littlefinger’s plan —to marry “Alayne” to Harold, unveil her as Sansa Stark and rally the Vale for the Starks— ultimately work… and it will work, considering where we left Littlefinger off in season 5; getting royal approval to invade the North. I’m quite excited about what will happen with this storyline.
I’ve added Royce to the GoT wiki Season 6 page returning guest cast section. In a way, the off-season is the most fun! For us uber-geeks, anyway. Especially this year, since we won’t have source material to compare to when we get leaked filming pictures and other stuff. Exhilarating!
“The whole trip hasn’t panned out the way he hoped it would.”
Not only for Jamie Dorne has not panned out the way we hoped it would 😉
They can’t recast RICKON!!!! He’s one of the main Starks for fucksake!
They probably want to age him up so he can have relations w/ Osha.
Ser Matt the Sullen,
Well… one of the only Starks really…
Art literally dancing around the GOT questions. It’s obvious he’s in the next season, otherwise he would have just confirmed he wouldn’t be returning if he had no obligation to the showrunners anymore.
I’d be upset if they recast him as Art really has become more experienced since S3, and I really couldn’t take a Stark recast. It just doesn’t sit right at all.
Art (Rickon) has “projects this summer” but “Can’t talk about it”.
the return of Rickon!!!!
I was wondering whether the Vale army that Littlefinger brings North would have actual characters in it, or just be a band of mooks. Seems likely to be the former (incidentally, the show would score major nerd points with me if it would clarify how his first name is pronounced).
I’ll be interested to see how the show has Baelish explain Sansa’s whereabouts to the Valemen, considering her vouching for him is the only reason they trust him (or if the writers will just ignore that and hope fans don’t think about it).
Luka Nieto,
I want to see the Boltons gloating over their victory over Stannis in the first episode, only to have it cut tragically (for them) short by the knights of the Vale rushing in.
Although I suspect once Ramsay finds out about Sansa and Theon escaping, he’ll bring out his hounds and go for a post-battle hunt, so he might sadly be absent for the real siege of Winterfell. I hope he finally dies while out on the hunt at least.
Ser Matt the Sullen,
I really would like it if at least one of the youngest child actors reprised their roles in the series. Not that I have anything against Dean-Charles Chapman or Nell Tiger Free, I’d just like Rickon at least to retain his actor. The show recasts roles too often in general really.
If Parkinson wasn’t returning, wouldn’t he be able to say so? I don’t know, but I think this hints at Rickon’s return. And what’s even cooler is that he’s starting to look a bit like Robb! (Might just be the hair, but still)
THE YOUNG WOLF REBORN
Now we just need to hear from Clive Mantle… please.
Dorne was such a disaster this season. If only they had just went with Arianne Martell and sent Jaime to the Riverlands 🙁
They can’t recast Rickon! He was so good in The Rains of Castamere!
Calling Rickon and his army now please, even if it’s not a cannibal unicorn riding army from Skagos
Dandelion,
The Arianne Myrcella storyline is even more pointless than the show Myrcella storyline… the only thing to come out of it is Doran’s intentions
Mormont,
I agree he was great in the episode. I think they will keep the actor, since he is acting outside the show and getting better every year.
Luka Nieto,
I expect it’ll be something like this, yes. Oh boy, I love the off-season (for now…)!
Robb Snow,
Unlike with Wharry and Richardson (though given how little Free ended up having to do, I don’t really see why they bothered), Parkinson is a “real” actor. I don’t think there’s any reason to recast him.
At the end of Season 3, Osha was planning to take Rickon to Last Hearth. So I suspect that’s where he’ll be if he’s really returning to GOT. Hopefully we’ll get Osha and the Greatjon back as well!
Dandelion,
The only good thing from Jaime’s Riverlands story is his talk with Blackfish,the rest is just filler trash as bad as Dorne . Oh look,here we have Jaime talking to some random Freys and some random no name Lannisters,riveting storytelling. Also Jaime’s spars with Bronn were way more entartaining than Ser Ilyn Payne,Dorne’s major problems this season was that it was uneventful,not the Sand Snakes as some people claim,but the Riverlands storyline would have been pretty much the same,some entartaining conversations and the rest boring crap .
With Stannis gone, will it be Littlefinger’s army that Sansa and Theon meet with? Or will she go to Last Hearth and reunite with Rickon? That would be awesome.
DDF345,
For all we know, he might still get his talk with the Blackfish next season. I’ve been wondering, in hindsight it seems getting Brienne to WF to follow Sansa was basically a distraction from the real reason the showrunners had her go there: to kill Stannis. Now that she’s done that, she might as well go back to the Riverlands and meet Jaime again for whatever story they have there. But that’s all speculation, of course.
That would have meant all of the same Dorne crap but without a main character present: and the only redeeming thing about Dorne was that it advanced the story of a primary character (Jaime). Setting Jaime’s story in the Riverlands would have meant retreading a finished plotline.
So, what we have is a bad solution (Jaime in Dorne) and a really bad solution (Jaime in the Riverlands). I’m not sure what a “good” solution would have been.
Actually, the only good thing was Jaime’s aunt telling Jaime that Jaime was not Tywin II and that the only Lannister sibling that was is Tyrion. We basically got that tacitly this year: Tywin II would never have given anybody a “facts of life” talk extolling the virtues of love, but Tywin II would manage to go from Hand, to ridiculed Hand in exile back to Hand again.
I hope that Paola Dionisotti will return as Lady Anya Waynwood, as well. She was missed in season 5. Her brief scenes in S4E8 were excellently done and made you feel as though the character had been around for much longer than reality, similarly to Karsi in S5E8.
Dutch maester,
I really have a hard time seeing how you could believably extricate Brienne from the North at this point. She knows Sansa is there, and I don’t know how she could miss what would presumably be a very public manhunt, seeing as she evidently spends every waking hour staring at the Broken Tower (where that candle is presumably still burning where Sansa left it).
Wimsey,
Ok,maybe that too and now that i remember, the scene where Jaime throws Cersei’s letter was pretty nice too,hopefully we get an equivalent next season where Jaime refuses to stand up for Cersei .
Kyle,
Agreed, but unless Flicks does an interview with her, I expect it will be impossible to find out about that for now.
DDF345,
Genna Lannister is one of the best minor characters in the series. Jaime in the Riverlands was fine. It showed his growing political savvy and cleaned up the aftermath of the War of the Five Kings. I swear, if some people don’t get death or something crazy then things are pointless or rubbish. Enjoy the subtlety of those parts of the books.
Wow, what a busy young man, he is. 🙂
Jaime’s talk with his Aunt was also very strong, and one thing I really did enjoy. That and the Blackfish were about it, but with the Blackfish already on the run, that plot section is closed off. Still, they could have found a way to send Jaime to Dorne without removing what appears to be all of the cunning intentions of Doran Martell. Perhaps that will show up in Season 6…but really, Dorne was a bit of a disaster, and that’s coming from someone who tends to be very apologetic toward what the showrunners are doing. Doran’s smarts don’t really come across, he just seems weak, unless they’re saving that up. The Snakes are about as useful as in the book, so no change there, and Ellaria was too over-the-top. I would have kept Arianne.
And it’s funny that the first confirmed returning character is Yohn Royce, a.k.a. the 78th-most important character on the show.
I wonder what GOT is planning to do with Jaime’s character in the long run. I felt NCW didn’t have great material to work with this year. I’m excited to find out what’s happening with the Vale. I enjoy any clues hinting at LF’s plans. He’s an intriguing shit.
Rickon and Bran were so cute and itty bitty in season 1. I hope they keep Art. I understand why they decided to recast Tommen with an older actor, but recasting Myrcella is a head scratcher for me. I like Nell and don’t have strong feelings for Aimee, but Myrcella had very few scenes this season and she died, so why was it necessary?
Rickon is definitely returning based on that interview. And he is – that’s his project Lol
Unlike Myrcella’s and Tommen’s first actors, Art has had a lot of experience since he last played Rickon. He was in a few major movies —that Dracula movie (in which Charles Dance also starred, as a sort of uber-Dracula devil I guess?), and the recent San Andreas. They have no reason to recast him, as they did with the other two.
Sean C.,
He’ll say they kidnapped her, I suppose.
That’s a gigantic reach. Jaime had no arc or character development to speak of this season, as opposed to his book arc, and the idea of his father’s legacy sure as heck never came into it.
TheTouchOfFrost,
I was talking more about that Devan Lannister guy or whatever the fuck his name was,but thanks for the condescending post . And no,the only reason Jaime was in the Riverlands was to keep him away from Cersei and to set up the bullshit confrontation with LSH,it doesn’t even make sense why the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard would deal with problems in the Riverlands,that should be Kevan’s or whatever other Lannister who is in command of the Lannister’s army, job . And also when the fuck was Jaime ever a political savy character,that’s not his character,even Cersei said he is not good at that stuff,so once again another fail to justify the Riverlands arc on your part .
I don’t know myself. To me the best part of the Dorne stuff was Arianne and Doran, and their great talk when Arianne suspects she’s being passed over for his son. That could have been kept, somehow, but it would require the Myrcella plot to work out as it had in the books, or perhaps, a greater emphasis on the Queenmaker plot, with Ellaria as the outlier who, after Doran/Arianne reconcile, decides on her own to say, hell with it, and poisons Myrcella anyway. Maybe they’ll give Alexander Siddig more to do next season.
It’s amazing to me that the best parts of Dorne turned out to be the ridiculous banter between Tyene Sand and Bronn. Then again, it’s Bronn…I shouldn’t be surprised.
Sean C.,
It was thin, but Jaime taking responsibility and trying to become a father to his children was his arc this season. Thin as fuck, but it was there.
Well Myrcella got whacked during the Dorne arc, not only likely traumatizing Jaime (and Cersei who will be more angry, paranoid, and overprotective than ever) but bringing us one step closer to the fulfillment of Maggy’s prophecy. So there’s that.
Two down, one to go.
How amusing is it that Art Parkinson looks like a relative of Kit Harington’s?
I just noticed the ‘still’ of Jaime and Myrcella wasn’t in the episode. It looks like what would have been if they let the scene run another minute but it was cut. This shot makes it an obviously death and he’s mourning whereas they stopped it as he was laying her down during the episode.
HEY! I just had a future-season story-compacting prediction hit me …
If …
What do you think?
I missed Jaime this year. While his Riverlands arc wasn’t very eventful, you learned a lot about him and felt he was changing as a person. I wish more of that had been included in his show storyline.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Daven Lannister was pleasant, too.
I don’t think Dorne was a disaster, it was strong enough in the beginning (travelling to, and initially arriving in, Dorne) and solid in the last two episodes. The middle of the season was just baffling though: every scene seemed clipped or rushed to the end, and we got absolutely no dialogue from the Snakes or Ellaria that wasn’t either “revenge” or “for Oberyn”, so there was absolutely no meat hanging from these characters. An extra five-ten minutes on Dorne, exploring some characters beyond their relation to Oberyn, would have done so much. The Sand Snakes rushing in to snatch Myrcella might as well have been sassy red shirts, there was no personality to them because the show did allow us time to get to know who they are (you know, again, beyond their names and relation to Oberyn.) I think Areo and Doran had 2(!) minutes of screentime until episode 9 came along.
Edit: I should also add I imagined Myrcella was getting more to do this season. Instead she was just a proxy for Jaime. Very disappointing. The Dornish characters, and the one Lannister who stayed with them in their strange culture, all still feel like strangers after a full season :/
You just want to see Gatehouse Ami 😉
For what it’s worth there’s a link in a Vanity Fair article to a guy on Reddit who claims he recently ran into Kit and Rose walking together in Belfast and Kit said he couldn’t do fan photos because…. Seems kinda fishy because I thought Kit and Rose weren’t dating anymore. But it adds to the speculation: http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/jon-snow-dead-game-of-thrones-azor-ahai-melisandre-warg?mbid=social_twitter
Absolutely possible.
Valaquen,
That Doran didn’t get his two famous speeches, which I thought were the whole point of the AFFC&ADWD Dornish storyline, still makes me confused. Yes, the show focused on Jaime and Myrcella, so that’s the point of the storyline then, I know. But still. Well, that’s gotta happen sometime, so I guess we’ll see it next season.
Jaime’s arc was to 1) start to become a father to his children to earn Cersei’s forgiveness and 2) do it in a way that could go down in the White Book
I actually liked that a character’s arc focused on being a good parent, it brings Thrones closer to real life
Mormont,
Needed more screen-time, though.
KG,
Someone else suggested that the Sons of the Harpy will try to kill Rhaegal and Viserion while they’re still chained up, but botch the attempt and accidentally release them instead. I really hope that’s what ends up happening.
I think Season 5 was just an introduction to Dorne (and Doran) with two other purposes also: one, to end the story thread from S4 and Oberyn’s death in terms of Ellaria seeking revenge, and the other to show Jaime finally growing up and growing into fatherhood. Ellaria’s story is done; I can’t imagine her living past this. Question is: what will Doran do next? And what about Trystane? Will any of the Sand Snakes be involved in any future Dornish story? I have to think yes; else, why were three of them introduced? One (Tyene) would have sufficed.
If you listen to older interviews with Art Parkinson about GoT and than this one, it is obvious that he will be in S6.
Becuse before he would say that he won’t be part of the season.
DDF345,
And I was talking about Genna Lannister. Hey, if you feel that way then that’s all on you. I can’t control your emotions. So for the plot, do you think the Crown would really just leave Riverrun in open rebeliion. Why wouldn’t the Lord Commander of hte Kingsguard go when it’s the last openly hostile region in Westeros especially when he has links with the Lannister army fighting there. You’ve just answered your own question, he never was but it shows how he’s grown as a character in that he came up with a more efficent and smarter plan. Contrast that with him circa the Whispering Woods and it’s shows his character development. If you didn’t like it then fine but you can’t make a case for it being pointless. YOu;ve even said yourself that for story purposes it gets him away from Cersei and in position for SH so you’re contradicting yourself by already justifying it.
KG,
He was pretty interesting. Would like to see more of him. Perhaps we will in the next book and Genna. Casterly Rock and the extended Lannister clan is one of the few areas that hasn’t been fully explored.
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
Well , she was never going to get any action out of Lancel! 😛
DDF345,
That is not true. Jaime in Riverlands also included his meeting with Lancel, and the moment when he burnt Cersei’s letter. The last would have been great to see on screen. I really liked Jaime-Myrcella last scene, really, so far, the best part of season finale. But Dorne, seven gods, Dorne was disgusting. I insist, D&D should have included Arianne. She held Dorne frame on her shoulders. At least, I thought that even although the show skipped Arianne, Doran Martell would have a master plan, but NO… he just wanted peace. It’s all right, Oberyn’s dead was only Oberyn’s fault, but what’s about Elia? As much as I like Game of Thrones (yes even Robb and Talisa love story, Qarth, etc.) I can’t deny that Dorne was a waste of screentime (and money).
As someone who hasn’t read the books, the Dorne story was not THAT bad… it was nice to see that side of Westoros.. the only issues I had with it was how slow it was… I would have liked to see Myrcellas death in episode 9, and seeing what happens after in episode 10…. I also think that three SS was useless.. 1 would have sufficed. I also have NO idea whats going to happen next with that story. It is very vague.
I am not impressed with how season 5 had zero answer by the end… I mean I didn’t want complete resolution, but every single story was left hanging. Don’t even get me started on Jon. That’s one story I hope was left hanging and he will come back to life.
The only story I felt I knew where it was going was Dany’s. Clearly the Dothraki will be her future army.
I saw San Andreas last week (terrible movie) and as soon as Art Parkinson popped up onscreen my brain said, “Rickon!” I hadn’t known he was going to be in it, and he was the best actor in the movie. I don’t see any problem having him keep the role of Rickon – he certainly looked enough like ‘little Rickon’ to me to be completely believable. It has been a few years in the story as well, you know.
NCJ got shortchanged this year, for sure. As did Alexander Siddig who deserved better.
Stupid question because I’m tired – why can’t Sansa just go back to the Vale? Have Brienne swoop in and carry her off there. The Vale lords would protect her, surely. Plus, she and Sweetrobin are pretty much the perfect match.
I don’t see why people act like GoT recasted many characters. They recasted only 4 minor characters and only 2 willingly(Tommen and Myrcella)
They didn’t recast Kevan Lannister, Lancel, Lysa Arryn, Robin A, Polliver, Rorge, Jaqen H’ghar, Barristan Selmy…
They even introduced Hizdahr, Fat Walda, Karl Turner, Mossador, (Doran?) one season earlier.
mau,
I don’t think so. I’ve listen and read another interviews, and all of them are so inconclusive. I’m not expecting to see Rickon in S6 anyway, and I wouldn’t be surprise with a recast.
Luka Nieto,
It confuses me as well. The only reason I can come up with for not including it, is that the showrunners didn’t quite know which Sand Snake they would want to send where, and whether the Trystane-Daenerys link would really be Doran’s game in the show. So, in order to not get stuck by that when writing season 6, they decided to wait with that till season 6.
But honestly, if that’s the reason, they should’ve planned it a little better. It was the only way to have the storyline be relevant in some way. Which it isn’t know (at least not for the Dornish characters).
Jaime’s arc in the Riverlands is all internal, and would have been tough to do without other characters we care about. Plus, with no LSH and Brienne tromping about up north, the tie-in at the end doesn’t work.
How to fix Dorne in a few easy steps:
1) Keep the Jaime and Bronn journey down, with the banter
2)Keep pissy Ellaria watching Myrcella and Trystane make out
3) Introduce Whippy, Surly and Titty Spice and have Titty do her “Death by Boobs” routine on some red shirt, so we know the drill.
4) Jaime and Bronn get captured fairly quickly, as if Doran knew they were coming.
5) They are brought in, and Doran gives his, “Uh, why didn’t you ASK?” speech, and agrees to send them up, with Trystane going, same as the show.
6) The Sand Snakes make their raid as the group all departs and they capture Myrcella. Ellaria isn’t there.
7) Jaime is pissed. Doran is pissed and agrees to send 20 men with Jaime and Bronn. Trystane insists on going and Jaime demands he go, with the message being “Myrcella in one piece or this kid in 30 pieces”
8) Ellaria is captured and dragged before Doran, who gives the Viper/Grass speech and chews her out for messing up his long-range plan. Trystane will be on the arm of a Lannister and on the small council. This will put him in power there and he’ll be ready for his real bride — (cut to Dany doing something or other)
Ellaria gives up the Sand Snakes location and he tells her to go to Sunspear and rule in his stead.
9) Trystane convinces Jaime that he loves Myrcella and he takes a liking to the kid. Bronn is suspicious.
10) They find Myrcella, unhurt. She says the Snakes left three days before. Bronn points out that they’ve been heading north and they are almost to the Reach.
11) Trystane insists on returning to his father and Myrcella won’t leave him. Jaime agrees and Bronn is like “For fook’s sake”
12) We next see Surly Spice in a Septa’s costume. Whippy Spice is now back with Ellaria. And Titty Spice pays a visit to Tommen.
They could have IMPROVED the Riverlands storyline. They could have IMPROVED Dornish storyline. I agree, in the books Riverlands was mostly plain, but they have managed to flesh some plain moments from the books. Daznak’s scene was greater in TV show, they made a good job with Hardhome, Tyrion and Dany meeting was excellent, even the short trip to Meereen was an improvement (thank Gods Penny didn’t make the cut)… Maybe they could give us a meeting between Walder Frey and Jaime meeting, or give us a one episode Genna (as they did with Karsi), while keeping the Lancel confession, the moment when Jaime burned Cersei’s letter, and all this with Bronn instead Ilyn Payne. The Riverrun siege and the meeting with Blackfish were great in the books, but D&D made Walder the new lord of Riverrun. Jaime could be present in three episodes, maybe… but three good episodes. Then developed Dorne with Arianne… Gods, really I missed fire and blood Doran’s speech.
The only thing about a possible Rickon return that excites me is it might mean OSHA is back. I loved her interplay with Bran. I think even Martin admitted he felt the show version was better than the book version.
Regarding the Genna Lannister stuff, if her conversation with Jaime is to be included, I’d be okay if Kevan Lannister delivered those lines. He will need some things to do next season, and I can hear him delivering the, “Tyrion is Tywin’s son” line.
I’m on record of saying I would eat my hat if season 4 spent more than 2 episodes in the Vale. Looks like I was right despite the many in here who called me crazy.
I stand by that prediction for season 5 as well.
Ravyn,
Couple of people saw Kit and Rose together in London couple of weeks back and in Barcelona last summer (possibly vacation).Yep,it seems like they’re dating again.A lot of people want Kit and Emilia to date,so they are not taking this thing well.Filming usually starts in July.
Jon Snow as a character is dead.That is very clear,but nobody ever said anything about Jon Stark,Targaryen,or any other surname.I’m not buying that stuff about season 6 from Kit.He will be in this season,because they will need to burn his body or do something else with it.Just like Charles Dance in this season.Unless his body will magically disappear which is very unlikely.
Geralt of Rivia,
Who the hell is worried abut Kit and Emilia dating? These people know that this is just show, right? That these are actors.
It’s really become kind of important to me that people understand that even if Jon and Dany end up together in the show, that doesn’t mean Kit and Emilia have to date, or even to overly like each other.
And that if Kit and Emilia date, it could still mean Dany kills Jon.
This pissed me off. I am pissed off now. I am going to sit here, not doing work, and will devote my energy to being pissed off.
Subtlety ? Lulz !
Exposing yourself as a bookwanker.
Good to know.
Kit and the less annoying version of Emma Stone are dating again? Gosh…..wait, I don’t care. Was that the same creeper that took Kit’s photo while lurking behind a tree?
People are nuts.
Rickon is so coming back!!
The actors playing Bran and Hodor were clear about the fact that they would not be in season 5, why would Rickon’s actor say “I can’t talk about that” if he’s not coming back? Not coming back is not a secret.
TheTouchOfFrost,
No,it was a stupid illogical move just to get Jaime out of King’s Landing,but it’s dumb arguing with a book fanboy so i won’t bother wasting my time anymore . Also your first post was condescending as fuck,like saying the arc is too subtle and everyone who doesn’t like it is too stupid to get it,that’s what your post indicated . And don’t get me with the character developement bullshit excuse,what was his ASOS arc then,middling in mud with Brienne ?
flintwielder,
I’m a bookwanker.
In-universe, there’s no reason she can’t go back to the Vale, assuming she has the means.
In terms of narrative, though, it doesn’t make any sense to send her back to the Vale. Season 5 established that the Vale is coming to her, with Littlefinger planning to invade the North.
If his name shows up in the opening credits of S6 ep1 just to do the Rose Leslie/Charles Dance death cameo, people gonna be pissed.
If R+L, wouldn’t Jon Snow still be Jon Snow or Jon Rivers? Who would legitimize him?
StandOzone,
If you look at my other post you would have seen that i mentioned his letter as a good scene,but his interaction with Lancel didn’t do it for me,i felt it was very forced and he believed him way too easily .
Funny the kids are old enough to actually watch the show now.
Moka,
The actor playing Hodor was, but Isaac said he was going to shoot S5. Aimee Richardson (Myrcella) did not know that was being recast.
No.
mau,
Sorry in advance, feeling really facetious today after all the recent woah WTF darkness 🙁
Nah, San Andreas 2: the Revenge!
Ygritte’s still alive CONFIRMED!
I read that as would he be Jon Snow or JOAN Rivers. Dennis Pennis (Thoros of Myr) did say Beric came back with something changed after each resurrection. And it would make the has-he-cut-his-hair question irrelevant.
Sorry I’ll stop now.
I hope Yohn has a role in defeating Littlefinger, for his buddy Ned. Also, getting him North. That shiny bronze armour is very interesting. FOR WAYMAR!
Sean C.,
That does make sense, ok. Thanks!
That’s no Rickon! It’s a space station! I mean… it’s a 20-year-old!
Jesus, adolescence hasn’t been kind to Stark boys. Soon they’ll look 40. 😉
Nikki,
I’m pretty sure he’ll just play the role of a Vale general for Littlefinger’s invasion of the North and conquer of Winterfell. But hey, if things go wrong for Littlefinger in TWOW / Season 6, I hope Lord Royce is one of those involved in his demise.
Along with Sansa, of course. Sansa’s gotta kill the fucker. Not before outsmarting him, though. It just has to happen.
Kyle,
That’s nice. I think it’s actually quite a smart idea to build him up more as a character, given what’ll happen to him later. Have him be the one to restore things with the Tyrells, rule capably, have some scenes with Jaime and Cersei, and then WHAMM.
I think Ian Gelder’s great in the role so why not.
Okay now, if your main concern is that the show will recast Rickon so that he can bang Osha, worry not. Judging by that interview, Art will be able to do it just fine. :barf:
WorfWWorfington,
Some people just struggle to separate show from real life.For example youtube is full of it and not to mention that special place tumblr.Egh…I don’t understand that,but it is what it is.
Clob
Now you got me thinking if it had anything to do with D&D not knowing if the show is going to have 7 or 8 seasons (an idea that seems to have reemerged lately). It’s quite possible that the extent of various side plots getting included at least partially depends on the number of seasons.
In the same vein, I must admit that I was a little bit surprised by the news of Euron getting cast which hints at an expanded Ironborn role. Maybe that bodes well for 75+ episodes? Then again, maybe they planned it along, possibly evidenced by the Sam’s Oldtown plot already getting underway in Season 5.
Yeah, it seems like this is both a logical S6 and TWOW plotline and is likely to happen. Though in the book, it could just as well be Stannis that LF and the Vale are marching against. Obviously, Sansa and LF are together in the books, so it makes sense that they need to reconnect on TV for anything approximating a book-like plot to recommence.
TV: LF et al march north on behalf of the crown (LF would need their legitimacy to rally the Vale lords), defeats the Boltons and finds Sansa one way or the other. He then uses her to maintain a grip on the north.
Books: If Stannis wins, the same as above, except it is Stannis LF defeats. Sansa is revealed along the way as a method of gaining northern support. If Stannis loses, LF could still make this play, but since the crown would not endorse it I suspect that it would just arise out of general chaos in King’s Landing (for example, a Tommen death).
Glad to know Yohn Royce is coming back. He’s one of the few characters that doesn’t look like a stereotype, but makes the show more believe-able for his generic appearance and attitude.
Mr Fixit,
A couple of months ago I would’ve thought seven seasons was the most likely option. Now, though, if you look at where we are, that seems improbable. The Greyjoys will be back, Oldtown is in, KL faces numerous trials, Littlefinger still has to plot to get Winterfell, the Riverlands will be back (surely: amongst Arya, Brienne and Jaime at least one of them will make it back there. Also, Walder Frey will be back), the Dornish storyline will get more prominent, Arya’s still in training, there’s no way Daenerys & the gang leave Meereen early in the season now that they kept the Dothraki storyline. And we have no clue what will happen at the Wall, and what Melisandre and Davos will do. I mean, working all those out will cost an entire season.
Dutch maester,
Seems that way. I’d say 75-80 episodes are almost assured with, say, 70% chance of GoT having 75 episodes and 30% of going full 80.
The 500 mile march through the snow while totally unequipped, and while tracked by hounds and an army of thousands? At least book-Theon and F(Arya) had somewhere safe (from Ramsay) to be taken – Stannis’s camp. That’s out, so I guess some sort of underground railroad variant of the northern conspiracy will whisk them away. After Brienne kills Ramsay and the hounds, of course.
I do love how our new kingslayer is the opposite of her book self, and possess a complete and utter talent for heading to exactly the right place. I guess the chance-meeting trope, which GRRM has largely managed to avoid, is something that just can’t be gotten rid of on TV, with its much smaller cast of characters.
I don’t think Littlefinger’s seeking the Crown’s support had anything to do with needing to rally the Vale lords. He already has the Vale lords in the show. The point of getting Cersei’s permission was to postpone for as long as possible the Lannisters realizing that he’s been screwing them over.
The number of storylines is always based on the number of lead characters, not the number of areas. The areas exist for character backdrops, not as anything on their own.
Given this line of thinking, we can probably simplify things a bit. The Greyjoys and Oldtown probably will be one and the same: remember, that is where Euron is lurking in the books. The issue is, who’s storyline is it? Probably Sam’s, but possibly also the Kings Landing crew.
I really doubt that they will revisit the Riverlands in great detail. There are no lead characters set there, and the primary plot points were tied up with the Red Wedding. Look for whatever is done to tie up Walder Frey to be part of a more general storyline involving one or more of the main characters. My bet is that it will be an extension of Sansa’s (see below).
Dorne won’t be a point by itself, but only in conjunction with or more lead characters. Dorne was the setting for Jaime’s story this year: the question is, for whom will it be the setting next year?
Given that LF intends on moving an army north, I think that we can expect that army to be a surrogate for Stannis’ army: so, that will be part of Sansa’s & Theon’s storyline (see above!).
The Dothraki will have little bearing on Daeny’s getting back. Presumably (in both book and show), Daeny & Drogon are going to lead the Cavalry back towards Mereen. Whatever problems Tyrion is facing there will be wrapped up then. After that, it is homewards bound. (The books will almost certainly follow something similar, albeit in a more round-about way). All this is going to do is give Daeny a bigger army.
They let her audition for the role, so she must have known that it was a possibility.
Wimsey,
Exactly. Now that I’m thinking about it, I’d probably argue that another aspect of trying to be “Tywinn II” includes failure vs. success. Tywinn was always able (well, for the most part) to control political and military outcomes. It was because of his presence at Blackwater that Stannis was forced to retreat from KL. In Dorne we saw Jaime trying to be the same person, someone in control of the situation, and ultimately fail with the death of Mycella. His emotional realization that he is not “Tywinn II” and his apparent dimplomatic success (feeling in control) during 509 function to drive this point home, imo.
The Dorne storyline was weak, but I don’t agree with the people who say it was a waste of time. The problem with it, to me, was that we needed MORE, not less.
Dutch maester,
I hope killing off jon is not a way to make space for all the other crap. Yes I said it, crap (except Dany) LOL!
Chad Brick,
LOOK, I SAID I WAS TIRED. Lol! But I just assumed LF could lend them his Tardis or Sansa Clause could drop by.
I’m not sure about this. I think they have not forgotten about Balon and that third leech. I think Euron will tie in with
I didn’t want to look like I’m hunting your posts, and annoyingly answering to you so I will continue what I was going to post in the other thread regarding Sansa. I see you considered the possibility of her and Theon meeting up with Petyr which I thought it highly likely.
However, I still think your choice of searching for Rickon is interesting, though that will probably involve
Why I say that is because Sansa is the only survivor that knows Rickon is alive! Jon is dead at the Wall so he won’t tell Davos and Sam has left the Wall already.
Sorry if I made a mess of my speculation but it sounded good in my head. And anyway it was YOUR idea Wimsey to begin with that intrigued me. So if it doesn’t make sense it’s your fault!
Oh yeah, that’s the point. My mind went back to the illegitimate side of things.
flintwielder,
Better than just exposing yourself and wanking which I get the feeling you do on a regular basis.
DDF345,
You’ve already defeated your own argument by saying why he was put in the Riverlands. You should be angry with yourself and nobody else. Cersei was getting pissed with him and didn’t want him in King’s Landing, he had stuff to mop up in the Riverlands and it gets him in position for the LSH stuff as well as showing how his personality has changed/calmed. Again, it makes perfect sense plot and story-wise. Why do you need to shout book fanboy every time someone disagrees with you? Also, your inferiority complex is of no concern to me. If you read things into what I say then that’s your look out. You are aware that characters can continue to develop after one book/season right? It’s not like flipping a switch from bad Jaime to good Jaime. It’s built and reinforced as the story continues.
Are we even sure the Dorne crew will make an appearance in S6?
I mean Cersei is going to be angry and on a warpath… but there are only so many wars she can wage at one time. Faith, Tyrells…. Who is to say that King’s Landing doesn’t just implode into anarchy (There is that Dany vision from the HotU)…. leaving Dorne sort of free and clear…
The Riverlands doesn’t have a storyline: it was the background for Jaime’s storyline. As a plotline, it was almost impossible to improve: it basically was kicking a dead horse.
The problem with Arianne’s storyline was Arianne. That could not be improved: a character completely different from Arianne was needed (say, one tactically savvy with informed and intelligent strategies), and you could call it “Arianne” but it wouldn’t be. Moreover, the bigger problem is that it’s simply too late to introduce a new protagonist, particularly in a story that is all about how the lead characters are new men/women at the end of the tale: the Crows/Dragons story really relies on having the characters well-developed at the outset of the tale.
So, the way to improve the Dornish plot was to put a real protagonist there who was already developed and who could dynamically evolve from boy/girl -> man/woman. Did they do the best job possible? I don’t know: I am hard pressed to think of how else they could have presented Jaime with the challenges and obstacles that make him so Un-Tywin at the end. I did not care for it much as it took too long to unfold, and to say that it was an improvement on either Jaime’s storyline in the books or the Dornish plotline in the books in this case only means that it was less cringeworthy.
That line carries no weight without Arianne and Quentyn, and the damage that those two would have done to the show would not be worth a line so brilliant that Shakespeare would weep in his grave to hear it. This line was far from that: to be honest, it is pretty over-the-top and hokey! The audience watching these series are attracted to good storytelling. Lines that some fantasy fans consider “epic” usually will be considered trite by this audience.
We´ll discuss your tears when Mr. Martin releases his novelization of S6 of GoT in early 2017. Til then, keep your fingers busy to make subpar published material even remotely palatable.
flintwielder,
This may shock you but the publication of a fictional book doesn’t actually mean that much to me in the grand scale of things. The fact you seem to take pleasure in other people’s potential unhappiness shows exactly what sort of a human being you are though. Still, feel free to vent your bitterness on me if you like. A good tantrum and a bit of attention will no doubt make you feel a bit better and you can rest assured nothing you can say bothers me so fill your boots, kiddo.
That is a really good point that I overlooked! That’s one of Jaime’s big moments in the book, too: he comes to a very well-done diplomatic solution that really is pretty fair to all parties, and then pats himself on the back for being just like Daddy: when Daddy probably would have exterminated one party and decimated the other as a warning. Instead, we see formerly rude, arrogant, hot-headed Jaime negotiating cordially, fairly and (I think) in good faith with a family enemy. Could you see Tywin going even half of that conversation without issuing veiled threats?
I could see it going either way. The fact that we have a new army moving north, and the fact that it’s quite possible that the books will feature that army with Sansa (and that this army can substitute for the exterminated army that has Theon) makes this idea quite appealing.
On the other hand, Sansa now knows about Rickon & Bran. However, here is the catch: she has absolutely no idea where to go find them. Of course, Davos doesn’t either: but given that he’s the one searching for Rickon in the books, I wonder if the task will fall to him there.
Mea culpa! 😀 Seriously, I think that both possibilities are very plausible. I’m leaning a little the other way right now, but only a little. It is so tough to say without knowing what is happening in Winter. (I love to speculate about how I would adapt a story from novel -> film/tv and I love to speculate about future plots and stories in series like these: but speculating about how to adapt a speculated story and plot gets a little loopy quickly!)
Dutch maester,
A season 8 means another season of the WWs NOT invading Westeros and more pointless lingering and that is NOT cool by me,sorry the ones that want more seasons but 7 seasons and a half is the most i can tolerate . I will jump on the boat of those ones who feel the show is dragging on if they pull that shit .
Tormund’s Woman,
OMG,what is the obsession with people who think we need so much to see Balon’s death on screen when even in the books they didn’t bother showing it,we need to jump forward,enough with the lingering,that means they Kingsmoot will have already taken place or it’s going to last 5 minutes tops,but i don’t need to see an entire season of Iron Islands politics,thank you very much that was bad enough in the books and will be worse on the show .
DDF345,
Who says the White Walkers can’t invade Westeros in season 7? That doesn’t mean there can’t be a season 8. Unless you expect the WW threat to be resolved in one or two episodes?
TheTouchOfFrost,
So instead of responding like a normal person would,you continue with your condescendence by saying that i have an inferior complex,you are either trolling or just stupid as fuck . Also you’re mistaken buddy,i’m not angry,in fact i can only laugh at your poor arguments,if i was angry at every idiot on the internet that i stumble about, i would have been in a mental asylum by now . So i know you think yourself as important but don’t flatter yourself please .
Dutch maester,
So if they invade in season 7 ,what is season 8 going to consist about ? Because you can’t tell me with a straight face that the WW invasion would last two seasons,that would be overkill even for this show .
Dutch maester,
Also, wouldn’t they need to permanently resolve the WW problem to prevent it happening all over again? I think an invasion of the LOAW could be possible, unless if killing the Night’s King is all that’s needed to finish the job, which I find unlikely. We still need to know what this “Heart of Winter” is and if the Great Other is actually present somewhere.
Amen. Jaime’s chapters in Crows are some of my favorites in the series. Besides his growing political acumen there is also his acceptance of his reputation as the kingslayer. He uses that to his advantage in the scene with Edmure even though he knows he probably wouldn’t do it.
DDF345,
He answered with a civilised manner and you unleashed a vile attack. Mind you! He happens to be one of the regular commentators who contributes to the discussions here. I cannot say the same for you…
dothrakian raven,
There always seems to be those few people who come here that cant control themselves at all. Fortunately they don’t seem to stay around for very long.
DDF345,
You seem very angry. The swearing, the name-calling, the general aggression. None of it screams peaceful soul to me. For someone who’s not important you sure do seem to be spending a lot of your time on me. I’m flattered but I’m afraid I’m really not interested.
dothrakian raven,
One of Roose Bolton’s leeches,
Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain
To my shame, I didn’t heed this advice. Lesson learned for the future.
I’ve found an interesting interview with Kit Harington published in April 28th. At the end, he talks about Jon’s faith in season 5 and has this to say:
«Where he is this season is he’s acutely aware of imminent danger – which is all around him. He’s not wrapped up too much in trying to get over Ygritte, but at the same time he’s in a place of severe loneliness. As he climbs the rungs of becoming a commander and leading other men, he starts to realize how isolated it makes him, and there’s a point at the end of the season where we see that very clearly. It’s the lowest place he’s ever been, and that’s going to push him to do quite extreme things in the future.»
More HYPE for us John Truthers! 😉
TheTouchOfFrost,
Or Jay Z learning from a wise man in Twain
“A wise man told me don’t argue with fools/Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who”
Zeus,
Think the Twain quote was adapted from the bible and the bible normally rips stuff off from elsewhere! Either way, it’s a good ethos!
Jay Z’s success perplexes me. I mean he seems like a nice enough bloke but has zero charisma and is an awful rapper plus the vast majority of what he produces is incredibly bland. A lot more talented guys out there.
I would agree with you there. Was never much of a Jay Zed fan but I like the Takeover. It’s a good diss song.
I’d be very happy with 8 seasons if they could do a good solid 8. 7 seems to be the goal, but if it’s too crammed in there and they have the resources, actors and crew, and funds to do 8 without thinning out the plot too much, hey. That is far better in my opinion than sticking a movie on the end. Never liked that idea.
Zeus,
99 problems was a good pop tune but that’s all I’ve got! 😛
Marco,
What do you think that means?
Is he referring to the decision to bring the wildlings in from Hardhome..? Is that the extreme thing he does in the future?
Wimsey,
You’re no fun, Wimsey :P. I feel like no one wants to speculate about the adaptation from the outline of a book! In fact I see some are OMG-ing my Feast/Dance Greyjoy speculation already!!! LOL Ah, well… nothing risked nothing gained, right?!
Oh, just to make sure I’m beating a dead horse right in relation with what we were discussing:
DDF345,
I was not suggesting a season of Greyjoy politics. In fact I wasn’t suggesting more than a couple of scenes that would be less than 10 min probably in one ep or split in two eps.
If my speculation truly bothers you that much as to deserve and OMG, perhaps is better to skip when you see a Tormund’s Woman comment. I do tend to speculate a lot in off season about what may happen.
You’re right, it could be just that.
Maybe I’m overreaching. Oh, well.
Marco,
I was hoping you would disagree with me… Sigh……..
🙁
That doesn’t add up because he says “the end of the season” but he decides to go to Hardhome in Episode 5.
I think Kit either slipped up a bit here or was just covering up For the Watch. Either way, it kind of establishes that he’ll bullshit people in interviews to conceal future events in the show. So there’s that.
Sorry, Deesensfan!
English is not my primary language. Your observation makes more sense and it made me think that I might have misinterpreted what the actor said.
At first, I thought in this bit – «he starts to realize how isolated it makes him, and there’s a point at the end of the season where we see that very clearly» – he was talking about FTW. And then the future… 😉
Misinterpretation mixed with wishful thinking, I guess.
Robb Snow,
That’s what I thought at first too… but I thought I was overreaching.
Who knows eh?
Its a waiting game at this point.
I am just worried that with all the story lines coming up and Bran’s return, that means no more Jon. I hope not, because all these signs and foreshadowing would have been for nothing
Marco,
No problem, but Robb Snow above commented and brought attention that he referred to the end of the season, so maybe you were right…
Wimsey,
Well, I disagree with you about Jaime’s lovely trip to Riverlands not being a storyline. But regarding Dorne you could be right. It will be difficult to introduce Arianne, a new protagonist (or two, if Doran counts) right now, without rely on a well established character like Jaime. Then, they could skip Riverlands, take Jaime to Dorne, but still keeping Arianne. I think that could be a better choice than what we saw. If D&D’s intention when they gave us a boring Dorne this season was to set up Dorne as a future “main player”, well, then they should have fleshed a new protagonist there in S5.
Just my opinion 😛
Deesensfan,
What interests me are these “extreme things” the risen Jon might do (assuming we’re interpreting this correctly). I would think he’d have all of the mutineers killed firstly, then perhaps totally reform or even outright disband the Night’s Watch, and unite the remaining brothers and the Free Folk into a new force. Those things would certainly be pretty extreme.
Robb Snow,
Yup that is what I was thinking also. What could those extreme things be, and all I thought of was what you said.
Robb Snow,
Off topic – how do you get a picture to show next to your name
Deesensfan,
Make an account on Gravatar using the email address you post here with, then upload whatever image you want.
https://en.gravatar.com/
Robb Snow,
oh cool!! thanks !!!
I usually disappear during the offseason but since we are all almost unsullied, I will probably be checking in more
Wimsey,
[Charles Dance’s voice]:
“Any man who must say, ‘I am the king’ is no true king. I’ll make sure you understand that when I’ve won your war for you….The king is tired. See him to his chambers.”
I think they’ll do the Riverlands plot next season. Cersei will execute or burn Trystane for Myrcella’s death, despite Jaime telling her not to since he knows he and Doran had nothing to do with it. That’s probably why they had Jaime go to Dorne. The execution will be the shows version of the burning of the
Jaime will realise she’s too far gone.
Though I do agree that they could’ve done a better job with the Dorne plot. They should’ve just gave Balon Swann’s plot to Jaime.
As far as Doran not having his great speech. The problem is, as good as the speech is, it’s bullcrap. You analyse it objectively and it doesn’t make any sense and just makes Doran look like an idiot. He’s worked hard to bring down the Lannisters? He and Dorne had nothing to do with the downfall of the Lannister that I can see. Yes, he promised to have his daughter marry
but even that doesn’t make sense since he didn’t seen to care all that much about the well being of
Though they could still have it next season when he finds out Trystane has been executed, just changed up a bit.
BWAAAHAAAHAAA !
Keep repeating that a few hundred times and you may actually start to believe it.
Considering that you can be found here almost 24/7 whining about the books without end and dumping on show viewers the *scope* of your…cough, cough…grand scale becomes pretty apparent. But since we are out of books now – keep up the good work !
Tormund’s Woman,
It’s been a while since I’ve read them, but if I remember correctly, there was a feeling of, oh, how convenient
conveniently shows up right when Balon dies? I know there’s the passage about
Long-time lurker here, but I can no longer keep myself from adding fuel to the fire in the form of Melisandre herself.
This interview seems to have happened between the beginning of season 5 and the air date of Sons of the Harpy (May 3) the episode where she has the nude scene with Jon.
She says she’s interested to see fans’ reaction not just to that scene, but to
*granted she does say season 4, but given the context of everything else she’s talking about, including encounters Mel has with Jon in season 5 and only in season 5, I’m fairly sure she just misspoke.
Take a look and decide for yourself (the part I quoted starts around 1:15). Personally I shall content myself with believing this confirms Jon’s continued existence–and also that it has perhaps already been filmed(?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fefNSdfvfss&index=1&list=LLmoxr6mD3lbBj7rPIgfP_KA
Possibly if they’v already shot the scene, Otherwise, I highly doubt D&D, much less Martin, has told her anything beyond what she has in terms of script pages. If I remember correctly, if an actor doesn’t appear in an episode, they don’t even get that script (Ian Beattie confirmed this recently).
HermionePond,
Very interesting
Is it possible she was referring to the Shireen scene.
the “after season 4 ” is throwing me off
Fandom clings to any and all hope!
I thought that was another great article, Ravyn, and I loved the pic of Kit in Belfast, incognito and asking not to be photographed, with Jon Snow hair. Lots of people thought this pic was fake or not from Sunday, but the fact that the person posted the picture before the articles were published denying Snow would return for Season 6 lends a great deal of credibility to the source, IMO.
And I loved this video, as well. Though I tend to favor that there will be only one AA, there were so many good and forgotten nuggets of AA insight here! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3o2LqFZcGU
Yours are among the comments I look for and look forward to. Some may want to skip them, but I enjoy keeping an eye out for them.
The hunt for Sansa will have Ramsey skinning everyone he can lay hands on.
I think the Boltons are in for a rude awakening when the North turns against them.
There comes a pint where terror tactics stop working.
We should see Balon’s death for the same reason we saw Hardhome. In a book, there is not a huge difference between a character learning about something second-hand and experiencing it first hand. On TV, which is a visual medium, there is, and generally it is better to be shown than told.
I’d love to see the guy who Jaqen transformed into briefly way back in S2 off Balon, and then transform into Wlaschiha’s Jaqen and walk away. It would be a good opening scene for S6 and a perfect setup for switching to far-far-away Arya interacting with Wlaschiha-Jaqen.
HermionePond,
The interview almost certainly happened well before the time it came out. It is just as likely and (sadly) more probable that she was referring to the scene that we saw.
They won’t. For one thing, it simply is not very good. For another thing, both of the stories set there were completed this season.
But far and away the biggest thing is that they have 2 more seasons to wrap up 2 novels worth of story and plot. It really would be a huge waste of time to go back and do what was essentially epilogue plot with so much else that needs to get done in 20 hours. Now, this is not to say that we will not see some stuff in the Riverlands: but it will be new stuff.
Similarly, we almost certainly will not see the Kingsmoot. Euron can just turn up. He might or might not be King of the Iron Born: all that really is going to matter are his fleet, his intentions, and which of the protagonists he’s affecting.
heh, well, I do want to do so: but I just feel weird making assertions.
However, why not. I am going to assume/guess/voodoize that Season 6 is going to tell a story about choosing between sides when you either: 1) actually like both sides; or, 2) actually dislike both sides.
I am going to further guess/assume/prophesize that the show will add plots concerning Euron’s attack on the Reach and Aegon’s invasion. The former will effectively replace the Stannis plotline and the latter will subsume the Dornish plotline.
Daeny will gain control over the Dothraki hoard (have dragon, will command), and return to Mereen as the proverbial cavalry (and dragon) to the rescue, with a civil war there taking the place of the big Battle of Meereen. At this point, for whatever reasons (and there are many, many from which to choose) she starts heading west and spends the rest of the season doing that.
Arya will do Blind Beth for a little bit, developing Warging skills and reconnecting with Nymeria. She will have a wonderful dream about Nymeria turning the Freys into Doggy Treats. After “mastereing” blindness in a feline way, she gets her sight back: and by the end of the season, she joins Daeny’s dragon army, linking up those two plotlines. (That would give us Daeny, Tyrion & Arya together!)
Sansa and Theon either search for Bran & Rickon and bump into Davos (uniting 3 protagonists) OR fall into the Vale army (similar to the Theon chapter from Winter). If the latter, then I expect Littlefinger to shift gears and direct Sansa towards Aegon. (Maybe he will be Aegon’s secret supporter on the show!) This is really fuzzy for me right now…..
The production team has a big laugh and says “Man, we really had you suckers fooled”: Mel heals Jon and toasts the disloyal Crows. Things batten down severely with the White Walkers, and Jon figures out that basically humanity is Poland stuck between the Germany of White Walkers and the Russia of R’hllor.
Ratings start very high, then drop as people watching it more casually get less immediate, people here will blame it on departures from the b… oh, wait, maybe not, cancellation will be predicted, new highs will be reached later in the season, and GRRM will tell us that Winter should be out next year, and that he’s canceling a beard trimming to speed things up.
Hmmm. I don’t think she’s referring to the one we’ve already seen, since the interviewer specifically asks how Carice feels “going into that episode with an even bigger scene seducing him.” There’s only one scene of her seducing him in the season at all, the one where she’s briefly nude. Before that they have one interaction, in the elevator when she asks whether he’s a virgin (which seems to be the one she’s referring to earlier, with fans telling her to “Stay away from him, Red Woman!)
It’s after this question that she adds she especially can’t wait to see the reaction to an apparently much bigger scene coming the next season—that is, a scene between the two of them which happens after the seduction, and so after season 5 (implying she knows what’s going to happen in a scene next season, and so it does stand to reason it’s already filmed).
I suppose there could be some argument for her referring to the business with Shireen, but the whole conversation has been focused on Mel’s interactions with Jon Snow and his admirers (not to mention the whole ‘after-the-season-I’m-talking-about-now’ bit, and Shireen is already departed) so that’s not how it strikes me. Still, your mileage may vary. 🙂
I’m wondering how long it will take for the news of Jon’s death to spread. Sam literally just left the wall – surely he would overhear something on his travels? We know he’ll be making it to Oldtown nonetheless.
I think that if Arya finds out anytime soon (after or during events which are suggested from the casting call for S6), her list will become much longer again, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it spurs her break from Braavos with Needle to avenge her favourite brother.
Also, how did I miss this interview with Liam Cunningham? Probably the whole ‘working all day, can’t read every post’ thing….
http://www.accesshollywood.com/game-of-thrones-liam-cunningham-on-saying-goodbye-to-his-co-star_article_108851
I agree, yohn Royce will represent the vale soldiers. I also heard the dragons will be twice the size next season, so we will be seeing all 3. And somehow, arya will bump into melisandre and hopefully kill her
This seems to be nearly airtight confirmation that Jon Snow’s coming back.
«Where he is this season is he’s acutely aware of imminent danger – which is all around him. He’s not wrapped up too much in trying to get over Ygritte, but at the same time he’s in a place of severe loneliness. As he climbs the rungs of becoming a commander and leading other men, he starts to realize how isolated it makes him, and there’s a point at the end of the season where we see that very clearly. It’s the lowest place he’s ever been, and that’s going to push him to do quite extreme things in the future.»
http://news.moviefone.com/2015/04/29/game-of-thrones-lonely-jon-snow-hits-lowest-place-season-5/
I say finish this series in 7 seasons.
Have a 1 year break and then make an animated reboot that covers the books fully without cutting anything out.
ASOIAF would make for a great japanese anime…
TheTouchOfFrost,
Even as a book reader I often don’t agree with what you say but you have a right to say it and you make your points in a well reasoned and rational way so keep at it.
And you have a sense of humour which is clearly lacking in some of the no argument other than abuse types here…
I didn’t really find the Riverlands section very gripping until Jaime reached Riverrun TBH. I think it’s possible that they could have that in season 6 which would be a way to re-introduce Edmure and the Blackfish although how to explain his escape from the RW could be tricky. I imagine that Book!Brynden might re-appear in TWOW but if not then he is likely not of importance to the story. However having gone for the Jaime in Dorne option they’re more likely to keep that link open post Myrcella’s demise than backtrack to what is an earlier point.
Well, according to Art’s IMDb page. The only thing he has signed on is that “Kubo” movie and he already mentioned that. That project in the summer he can’t talk about must be GoT.
Maybe he’s talking about letting the wildlings though the Wall.
Pigeon,
I hadn’t read that and really enjoyed reading it, so thanks for the link!
Brock Landers,
Trust me, ASOIAF would be teeerrribbllleee as an anime. All anime have ~20 minute episodes so one episode could only follow one or two plotlines at a time – the same applies to the audience. I also think that a fantasy anime would need to have quite a lot more action than GoT has. The seires simply wouldn’t be profitable in Japan unless big changes were made. A western animation, on the other hand, might get some viewers, but if the goal would be to keep everything from the books, the episodes would need to be much longer than 30 minutes – meaning quite a lot of (expensive) animating for some folks.
So don’t have your hopes too high.
What are the chances they simply bring Sansa back to the Vale and resume the story from the books?? :)) That would drive the readers mad…. it would make her story in Season 5 in Winterfell similar to Jon’s at Craster’s, just something to fill her time because there are too few chapters in the books.
I finally got over my sadness and annoyance about Jon’s death to rewatch the episode, a few times in fact. (I spent the whole week muttering to an imaginary Olly, telling him how much he was gonna miss Jon when the wights were on his ass.)
Maybe I’m just hoping too hard, but will someone else watch the final minutes of the stabbing/dying scene and see, if on your tv, it looks like the light brightens on Jon’s face ever so slightly, and his head moves just the littlest bit, as though he sees something, or realizes something.
I know I’m grasping at straws, but I can’t believe that Jon/Kit wouldn’t be brought back somehow.
Hey everyone, stick around for the summer. I was here on and off for the whole off-season last year. They come up with some good articles, news and topics. It really helped make the transition after the season was over a lot easier.
That’s a circular argument. Since Art’s next project is a secret for the time being, it’s only natural it won’t appear on IMDb. It is neither evidence in favour of nor against his involvement in GoT Season 6.
Wimsey,
Arya encountering Tyrion & Dany on their march to Westeros would be a dream come true. It’s so good, so much of what I want, that I doubt it’ll happen. But oh God, I hope it does happen…
Arya would like Dany, too. A powerful woman with a dragon, bent on destroying the Lannisters? I’m pretty sure that Arya would bend the knee pretty fast and swear her fealty.
Josh,
Where did you hear that?
Is there an interview with a VFX person or something? Twice the size seems a little too much, unless we don’t see Dany for a couple of episodes and she suddenly appears in Meereen with Drogon and a horde of Dothraki, which is a possibility.
Luka Nieto,
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/game-of-thrones-dragons-white-walkers-vfx-121365015845.html
I like that. It uses Myrcella to draw Trystane and Jaime out while they go to their true mission of offing sweet Tommen.
None. It’s pretty clear that LF is making a play on the north in both TWOW and S6. In the former, Sansa is already there and LF will be coming to her. In the latter, they will come together. Either way, it leads to the same point – the defeat of the Boltons (or in the case of the books, Stannis…the book battle of the north could go either way and it would still lead to the same end), the elevation of Sansa, and her destruction of LF. On TV, it is clear to see her motivation – it was LF’s ignorance and/or lies that got her raped and tortured. Critically, LF doesn’t know about this, and thus will assume she is in his pocket. She will use that misinformation against him and crush him. It’s not so clear what will cause her to turn on LF in the books, but I like to think about that one person out there who was present at LF’s betrayal of Ned, has a fancy for Stark girls, and is not dead dead.
I think you are in for a disappointment when it comes to
Hah! I’m not THAT crazy!!!! I said somewhere else that Meereen might still get a battle (though I went with Yunkai and allies) but I was not sure. Because what else will Tyrion & Varys do while Dany is out taking a stroll with her new friends?! At least Jorah and Daario are bro bonding doing some good (hopefully) detective work in Valyria (?) or Dothraki Sea. Dany didn’t drop that ring for nothing…
You know Jon resurrected will NEVER agree with toasting his Brothers! Also, we need a different comparison or this will suddenly get dicey with someone proving Godwin’s Law is true LOL (I think the Wall will come down. Like the Berlin Wall. Though I wonder if it will happen right at the end of Season 6.)
Laugh it up Wimsey but ratings almost always drop for season 6 in TV! #ItIsKnown Some series though, make a strong finish. Also, Winds will come out before the season starts. #That’sAlsoKnown
Jad,
If he can’t talk about it, he probably wouldn’t put it on his IMDb page, regardless of whether it was GoT or not, right?
vlad,
Heh, what story? Three desultory chapters does not a story make: it did not even get one started! The question is, where is Sansa going, both as a character and geographically? The recently rekeased Alayne chapter provided her first real dynamic development. However, it should make it clear that she has her sights set on Winterfell. The Vale is not going to provide her with an army to take it back. So, where will she turn?
Luka Nieto,
It might not be such wishful thinking! The storylines have to start merging. Arya is in Essos, and Arya would almost certainly be drawn to Daeny for a large number of reasons. Moreover, it would add a certain symmetry to the tale: Daeny would basically be making peace with a Lannister and a Stark (and the Black Sheep of both families, too.).
Moreover, I am betting that this is a story that will include people having to make enemies with kin and kith. This would set up putting Arya and Sansa on different sides. (I had thought that Stannis’ side would be relevant: but it obviously will not on the show, and now I doubt in the books, either.)
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
I always thought it was an FM who killed him at Euron’s bidding in the books. Martin had already put a clue about Crow’s Eye in that vision so “faceless” being so specific was odd unless I thought it meant FM.
Ginevra,
Thank you, Ginevra! I am truly humbled.
I keep wondering – do the Boltons know to burn the bodies…. I know burning corpses was common after warfare, but if they don’t do it … the walkers have an army waiting for them at Winterfell.
HermionePond,
I really don’t understand her interview…
the reason I mentioned shireen is because since this interview was before the shireen thing happened… then maybe that’s what she was referring to at the end because she knew for sure she was gonna get a lot of twitter hate for that
Basically, this interview may have been taped before the season started… which is why she says after season 4 but that makes NO sense to me. So who knows…
It’s my firm belief that if any directors or producers didn’t read asoiaf than they shouldn’t be on the show doin episodes , this years simplicity of the show really holds a lot of weight in an argument over this season bein by far the worst season in.all 5 years. I was unsullied until after season 4 and I’m trying to completely shut off the book reading asshole in me , however I watched the season about 4 And a half times and can’t get off the fact that they cut out lsh , strong belwas , young griff, Jon conning ton , arianne Martel , Quentyn for obara sand tyene Nym sand an areo hotah who didn’t use his weapon for anything but keeping peace ,in the shit fight in unbowed unbent unbroken . Doran seemed intresting but litterly had less lines than that turnkey at the vale from
Season 1. Than there’s the scenes themselves with the sand snakes , in which across the whole season all 3 repeated lines in the next episode (I am obarra sand , I am obara sand I fight for dorne who do you fight for ?) Which is litterly the stupidest shit I ever heard considering doran ( loves his nieces very much ) but his number 1 , protector / advisor / sworn sword and war commander doesn’t know who obara sand is considering they spent 20 years together in dorne. Ok you might say she said that to Jaime and Bronn so they would know who they are but she yells it at areo . Horrible than there’s no Marge ,Loras little finger , queen of thornes or tommen in the last 3 episodes , no iron born at all in all the episodes .but yet somehow the show leaves every other story on a cliffhanger !!!!!!!????????? It’s fast paced , than rushed scenes , than slow scenes where new charectors do nothing, but repeat themselves . It makes you think , are they trying to attract a slower lot of people in the television world , so game of thrones appeals to everybody from teenage kids , to people of diffrent cultures in America , just for ratings . It’s clear to me that this year they went all out in simpflying the writing for the shows episodes . And it sucks ….. Don’t get me wrong the WoS , dazniks , Hardhome (one of my favorite episodes ) we’re done brilliantly , it looked great , the
Pit announcer was perfect . But besides all the big WTF moments , this year. The episodes we’re just not the same. The wit of the charectors conversations with each other this season was horrible. Some of these lines we’re soo bad —- you want a good girl , but need the bad pussy. — all the dornish lines this season , had very little wit to them , the show didn’t even give yeh an idea of how and why the donnish culture is diffrent from the stormlands , north reach and
Other lands of the other 6 kingdoms . I hope dan and Dave get the message :there was several things diffrent things done wrong with the writing ,of this season .IMhO they we’re at an all time low. To me they started with a great start to the story , plenty of intresting back story in it , a classic . Than A jam packed unbelievable middle and core to the story and now there starting to fuck up the end of the story . The three most intresting things for me from feast/dance was YG , LSH and the iron born and Eurons plan to wed the dragon . And they cut all my favorite plot points to waste the very precious 10 hours a season , with bullshit like religious phanatasism over and over and over , from every diffrent storyline over and over . I’m
A very depressed thrones fan , who was inspired to read all the books because of season 4 and got played when they didn’t include anything I hoped for , with season 5 .
Jon stated his intent to travel to Hardhome and collect the Wildlings in “The Gift,” which is Episode 5 of 10 and so definitely in the middle of the season rather than at the end of the season.
This quote is actually talking about two different types of things. The first thing we are told happens “at the end of the season” and is the “lowest place he’s ever been” while we “very clearly” see how “isolated” he is as Lord Commander. And then second thing is actually multiple “extreme things” that Jon will do after this lowest point he’s ever seen, lower than losing Ygritte last season, lower than losing Eddard Stark, lower than anything ever. Surely that could only be one scene, the last scene of the season, and surely that means that Jon will be doing extreme things in Season 6. (Or Season 7 or 8, but definitely “in the future.”)
Yes, this isn’t definitive proof, but this is formidable proof, and I cannot think of an explanation that would possibly convince me that the quote doesn’t mean what we think it means.
There are two reasons we should think that it refers to Hardhome. First, if “Jon is Dead” is as big a hoax as “Paul is Dead,” then Harrington still does not know anything about what Jon Snow is doing next year. B&W do not tell the cast members what is going to happen beyond that season. Now, Kit would know that it’s a hoax: remember, interviews being conducted at the same time but only released recently had him trying to convince us that Jon is dead. But that would only mean that he knows that Jon is back next year. He has as yet as little idea of what Jon Snow will do in Winter (extreme or otherwise) as we do.
The other thing is that at the same time Kit was doing that interview, he was also giving interviews trying to convince people that his character is dead. Actors are great performers: and if Kit is playing the role of the actor out-of-a-job, then he’d play that role.
If your three favorite things were among the three least substantive things, then why are you a fan of this? Seriously: LSH appears on one page; Euron is an incidental background character in one or two chapters who never even has a conversation with a protagonist; and YG is basically a detour for Tyrion that does nothing other than set up plot for Winter.
At any rate, if the things you like in a tale have nothing to do with the story or the plot(s), then you are not going to get what you like on screen. One of the primary goals of adaptation is to eliminate stuff that does not create story or drive plot, after all.
freoduwebbe,
I’ve always wondered about the kings in the crypts of Winterfell. What happens if they wake up? I know that isn’t a huge amount of people, but does this tie into the idea that there always needs to be a Stark at Winterfell? Could the Stark of Winterfell command the kings of old?
I’m
Surprised No one else can acknowledge that this season was the worst of the 5
Wimsey,
I cannot possibly make Hardhome fit that quote. If Hardhome is one of the extreme reactions,
1.) What are the other extreme things did Jon do (because “things” is plural)?
2.) What was the lowest point in his life at the end of the season, which “very clearly” shows his isolation, that made him want to go to Hardhome?
3.) Why does he start planning for Hardhome in the first half of the season, before the big event at the end of the season makes him want to do something as extreme as go to Hardhome?
I think a lot of elements of the story fit quite well with Japanese anime, and if something as layered as “Monster” with its multiple storylines and characters can work as an anime, so could ASOIAF. But it would require a very large budget for all of the battles and action scenes and easily hundreds of episodes for the full story. I doubt something like this will ever happen. The Japanese anime industry is quite insular and rarely takes on “outside projects.” Conversely, I think an American animation project would run afoul of the common western perception that “animation is for kids” and balk at producing something extremely R-rated (bordering on “hentai”).
But the headanime I have produced for ASOIAF is quite glorious, indeed! 😉
Ginevra,
What about beheading Janos Slynt? I know that’s really early in the season that he does that.
I don’t know. cause I mean he wouldn’t know anything that will happen in season 6…
Do we have evidence that D&D have vowed never to tell cast members what will happen in future seasons? The fact that they haven’t doesn’t mean or even imply that they never will. If a wildly popular cast member was going to die and come back to life, I think that the producers would have to give that actor some hint as to the fact that he would be coming back, and that in and of itself is knowledge of what happens in a future season. While they are giving that future inside information, it would be only natural to discuss how that might change the character. Additionally, if Dan wasn’t joking about warging in that interview, which is just as likely as not, then he very easily gave up future season knowledge to an actor in front of the world.
Do we know exactly when each of these interviews were conducted? How do we know this is true?
Until the Wall falls down, I don’t think any bodies that far south will reanimate. And if the Walkers get through in season 6, they’ll have a lot more than that available for their army, including skeletons long dead… and everyone they kill on the way south joins their army.
Westeros is f-ked. #TeamWhiteWalker
Simeon,
I really wonder when and how the WW’s move south will happen.
I am thinking, for a start, with Jon Snow dead (either dead dead or comes back to life and doesn’t stay at the wall), and only about 50 dumbasses left at the wall, and no dragon glass there (will Thorne take Longclaw? 🙁 ), that the WW attack on the wall will be very easy (I cant wait to see every remaining nights watch man die). From there, they can begin their attacks… but how? Is winterfell first? And when? I cannot imagine they would pause the WW story again next year.
Deesensfan,
I think the first prerequisite is that it has to be Winter, which began officially at the end of book 5 (and probably at the start of season 6 on the show). The Wall appears to have some magic woven into it that prevents the WW from crossing — in the book we had the MacGuffin of the “horn of Joramum” which supposedly would cause the Wall to fall, but nothing similar in the show. Perhaps they have another way to bring it down, or perhaps its magic is too faded and won’t stop them…? It’s all speculation now without a book to point the way…
I’m interesting in seeing how this Ragnarok finally gets going and I hope it starts in season 6, maybe the penultimate episode?
Simeon,
I haven’t read the books, so I didn’t think to speculate on the magic. They did mention it in the show, but no details.
They will have to cross the wall somehow.. or else there never will be a battle
This epic battle should be in the form of a few battles… Hardhome being the first, I imagine.
There wont be just one big battle of humans vs WW…
right?
I would assume there would be multiple battles – Westeros is a pretty big place and would take a while to conquer.
It’s gonna be about one crow (Edd) left at the Wall the moment Tormund finds out what happens. In the books, it was about 3300 wildlings and 500 members of the watch, iirc. In the show its more like 1000 and 45? Yeah, good like with that, Thorne.
Tormund’s Woman,
B&W never introduce new characters before they are relevant to tha story being told that season. Given that, and given that they had to streamline and thus could not create an important contribution to this year’s story for YG, Season 6 is the time to introduce them.
You are correct: Jon will not countenance the toasting of his brothers. He probably will be displeased to learn of it when he comes to consciousness.
Chad Brick,
Ugh, I cant wait. I fookin’ hate them all and want them dead, ASAP. I hope someone gets revenge for Jon.
Wimsey,
Some one in another thread said that those that get resurrected do not remain the same when they are resurrected… so maybe the new Jon would be fine with the toasting of his bros
Grand maester giz,
Wimsey thinks they will be introduced when they are relevant to the story, as he has said many times. Personally, I think LSH and YG are out, but he doesn’t.
Grand maester giz,
I think it’s the worst season since the show found its groove —which was around seasons three and four. So in my personal subjective opinion, as personal and subjective as yours, season five is considerably better than season two, better than season one, and a bit worst than seasons three and four.
Grand maester giz,
Grand maester giz,
You’ve already made your point a billion times. No one agrees. No one cares. And even if they did, what’s it to you?
People like you also get carried away in oversignifying the importance of a certain character. ASOIAF has 339 chapters so far. Count all the chapters your beloved missing characters are in and you’ll see how unimportant they are to the overall story so far.
Grand maester giz,
The Crows/Dragons story is done and none of them were relevant to that story: the boys and girls all died and the men and women all were born just fine without them.
Now, will they be relevant to the Winter and/or Spring stories? Maybe: but that has zero bearing on including them in the prior story. Chekhov’s famous dictum is simply a catchy summary for how to not displease a reading/viewing audience. (And, no, this is not “one story”: it is a series of stories that are [after Thrones] sequels to prior stories.)
I would ask you again: why are you a fan of a series in which your favorite things are so insubstantial? If the substance (Jon, Daeny, Tyrion, Arya to get 75% of it!) does not grab you, then why wade through it all?
Grand maester giz,
Well then, SURPRIZE!!!
I’ve been talking to people this week who loved season 5 …
Everyone is entitled to an opinion!
That’s almost exactly the same way I would personally rank the seasons … and even though season 2 is the “worst”, I still think it was a pretty good season.
Simeon,
Season 2 being the worst is still better than all other TV shows lol
I would say
4 — 5 — 3 — 1 — 2
If Jon dies forever, 5 moves down and 3 goes up.
If this is true, then Jaime will join Team Wolf in the North, against Tyrion and Team Dragon.
And regardless of what happens to Jon, I think the Night’s Watch is permanently finished. The Wall will be destroyed along with it in S6.
After one run through the season it’s my least favourite but I could change my mind after watching it a second time (which probably won’t be until the blu-ray release next year).
I’m not that surprised or disappointed given that AFFC and ADWD are my least favourite of the books and I thought they’d be the hardest to dramatise for TV.
And least favourite does not equate to awful, terrible, boring, stupid, not enough action, not enough Character X, too much Character Y, etc etc etc; I just rate it a bit lower than its antecedents.
Season 3 > Season 4 > Season 1 > Season 2 > Season 5
Wimsey,
This is an off-topic question but since there a number of you active here (I haven’t read the books)
Is R’hllor the God/Lord of Light? I guess I am confused by the different religions in the story… Based on my understanding you have the Lord of Light (R’Hllor), the Many Faced God (God of Death??), then you have the 7 Gods one… (I am not remembering the terminology)… and then what about the Tree God?
It’s too big a topic for an answer here try this article first and then ask again if this still leaves questions.
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Religion
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
Not that theres many left, but no spoilers in this article?
Edit: Didn’t see any spoilers
Okay so based on reading that, the only ones we’ve seen focus on in the show are:
– The old Gods of the Forest — assuming that’s where Bran was last scene… The article says that the Majority are in the North… were the starks followers of the Old Gods?
The Faith of the Seven — Is that the religion of the High Sparrow?
The Lord of Light – lots of focus on this one… Is R’Hllor the Lord of Light? I have seen people mention Azor AHai.. is it under this religion
The Many faced God of Death
Great Stallion – Cause we saw the dothrakis
I would stop reading at the “in the books” section if you’re worried, just in case.
It’s just a summary really. There is some suggestion that certain gods known by different names are the same god, especially by followers of The Many Faced God,
I agree with your Chad’s take. I mean wouldn’t it just be brilliant that Sansa and Brienne come across a certain Gravedigger and he gives her the lowdown on all of LF’s crimes against her family. I always felt like their interactions were unfinished, just a hunch. But yes, Sansa will be feeling all sorts of resentments towards LF, after the events of this season, and I hope she starts to concoct a plan to take him down.
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
That’s where I stopped reading!
Deesensfan,
This is like, exactly, my opinion. Are you me?
Deesensfan,
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
heh, yeah, it is almost Tolkienesque: so many names for one individual!
Luka Nieto,
Interesting that you think GoT found its groove in Season 3. General consensus seems to be that the show was great right off the bat, and I agree with that assessment. Sure, the lack of money was obvious and the production wasn’t yet on the level it is today, but I thought the first season was great.
Maybe. I think it more likely that he’ll be closer to where ever Cersei is: after all, we’ve got a tussle between the Lannisters, Tyrells and Faith coming up, and we’ve got a little brother thing happening someday!
Well, strictly speaking, “I loved it” or “I hated it” is not an opinion: it’s an expression of enjoyment. “I think that the IMDB ratings for Season 5 equaled and even slightly surpassed those of Season 4 while the Metacritic ratings of Season 5 nearly equaled those of Season 4 because X, Y and Z, and other shows that do X, Y and Z also have high ratings” would be an opinion. We then could debate whether X, Y and Z are sufficient and/or necessary for audiences (or particular audiences) to enjoy a show.
Conversely, saying “I think that Season 5 did a good/bad job of telling Martin’s story because the story requires A, B and C, and the series did A, B and C” also is an opinion. However, it’s very possible to say “it did a good job of telling the story” and “I did not enjoy it.”
This season was tough for me. I thought that it was very well done: in the end, even Jaime’s story came through very well. I didn’t particular enjoy it because it was so damn grim. It will be tough to watch again, but even if I don’t have fun watching it, I certainly will appreciate the quality. I might be particularly “down” about it (but not on it!) because I really do worry that they wrote out Jon to let GRRM keep his secrets.
Wimsey,
I’ll have to agree with Ginevra here, Wimsey.
Serious spoiler incoming.
It doesn’t get more obvious than that!
I don’t think there’s need to separate reason from emotion in this particular instance. That you found the season too grim and hence hard to enjoy is a valid criticism. It doesn’t all need to revolve around logic and technical proficiency. I too would like to have seen a few cathartic moments here and there. There were several in the books!
———————————–
R’Hllor / Lord of Light : their belief is that there are only two gods, R’Hllor and the Great Other locked in constant battle for Supremacy. To put it simply they believe that Azor Ahai armed with the sword Lightbringer is a kind of messiah who will end this struggle. That’s all we know from the show really.
The Great Stallion is a Dothraki Horse god, they believe other gods exist but The Great Stallion is superior.
The Many Faced God is a single god and they believe the god of death in the Faith of the Seven (The Stranger) is the same god of death.
Deesensfan,
BTW all you really need to know at the moment about “The Old Gods” is that is a Paganistic / Animalistic / Shamanistic belief – kind of analogous to Druidism. Weirwood trees are considered sacred. Beyond that goes into spoiler territory for season 6.
Dutch maester,
hahaha I am you! 😉
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
Wimsey,
Thanks all! A little clearer now
That scares me…
And also think that would really ruin the story.
Why include all the information, all this foreshadowing etc etc only to write him out.
But, maybe the decision to write him out only came recently during the production of Season 5.. because GRRM had yet to finish his book… and still hasn’t… so they can chose now that they will not continue Jon’s story. His story was ended in season 5 to keep it open ended to go either way.
But again, I believe that choosing to write him out would ruin the complete picture for me.
We’ve been told this many times by the actors. It’s not even so much “vowing”: they sit down to prepare the specifics of Season X around the time that Season X-1 starts showing. If nothing else, then it’s just scheduling.
This is not unusual, by the way. In fact, it would be very, very unusual for showrunners to tell the actors about long-term plans. Actors themselves usually do not want to know: they want to focus on what is in front of them, after all.
This has come up a few times this year when the actors pointed out how surprised they were to read things in the scripts that they got. (“I’m going to die?!?!?”) Indeed, didn’t one of the actors basically learn that when they started rehearsing the scene? (Many actors do not like to look at scripts before they start rehearsing them, so that they can try to capture their immediate reactions to the “WTF” moments.)
Interviews for almost all of these series are done during the initial publicity tours at the outset of the season. They then stagger the releases so that we read them as they come out. So, when EW cites Kit or anyone else after an episode, it is all from one interview at the outset of the season: otherwise, the entertainment media and show publicity people would be having to arrange interviews with all of the actors from all of the shows all of the time, and that would be to nobody’s benefit.
It is better to say that I have not ruled out LSH, although I think it depends hugely on what happens in Winter. (The more I think on it, the more I think that GRRM’s going to seriously disappoint us with LSH.)
I do think that they are going to bring in YG this year. My suspicion is that we’ll learn that Ellaria became aware of him, and that she’s fleeing to his camp now. (This would parallel something in an early release chapter, too.) I might be wrong. (Hell, I usually am.) However, if they were going to include YG, then they would have done something like what we’ve seen. The fact that they cleared Stannis out of the way already means that they are opening up plot space for something! Of course, the Reach will take up some of that, and I obviously do not know the new plot developments that Winter will bring.
Mr Fixit,
The fact that they joked about a common fan conjecture pretty much guarantees that they are not going to do it! (They also failed to provide any setup for it, which is equally strong evidence.)
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
Wimsey,
Thank you, its all a little clearer now
Deesensfan,
Read the spoiler-covered part of my previous post; it has nothing to do with book spoilers, if you’re worried about that.
Mr Fixit,
Yeah I have seen that video… But I think that was taped sometime this year… and would he be so dumb as to say “Season 6.. Season 6”.. and ruin what theyre supposedly trying so hard to hide?
Deesensfan,
Well, it wouldn’t be the first time. That’s as rock-solid a confirmation as we’re likely to get.
He’s clearly saying it as a joke, riffing off of the popular fan theories. But there still could be *something* to it. We’ll have to wait and see…
Mr Fixit,
I hope so
So he wasn’t joking ?
Wimsey,
Sansa had a story in AFFC. It was primarily psychological and could not have been literally adapted to TV, in all likelihood, but it was a story.
I’m not sure why you think the Vale army isn’t relevant. That’s why she’s in the Vale.
Mr Fixit,
I saw that!
Stubborn & cheeky! I knew there was more underneath the pedantic and logically arrayed ideas in walls of text (*nah, nah, nah, boo, boo*) . The ONLY thing that’s going to burn next season at the Wall will be my TV screen; when Mel pets someone’s wolf… Straight from the text that is.
I think I have successfully concluded my best argument! I’m getting myself a cookie.
But would Jon warg in to Ghost and stay like that forever?
Wimsey,
There not my favorite things but they we’re 3 good surprises that I thought we’re awesome , I read the story for Jon
Snow Tyrion and khaleesi They we’re just like 3 good surprises , that I think would of translated great to television and I wasn’t happy that they we’re cut so tyene can say she’s the most beautiful girl in the world everytime we see dorne. They only have ten hours so if after watching it what they add in has almost no significance to the story ( they could of just sent word that Marcella was dead ) and had Jaimie goto the riverlands , anyway I’m
Not gonna argue about what is and what outa be , but season 2s dialogue , story and overall pace was better than season 5 , it wasn’t much better but I got it 4-3-1-2-5 4= 9.9 3 = 9.4. 1 = 9.3. 2= 8.0. 5 = 7.6 I’m not saying this season was horrible I’m just saying if they stick with this simplified style of writing again next season . It’s gonna ruin the end of the complex story we all know and love . I mean that’s why we’re in here debating it . Before season 5 I thought game of thrones would go down as the greatest fantasy story of our generation better than Star Wars , lord of the rings , Harry potter . Now I’m
Not so sure
Mr Fixit,
……..or just a really smart misdirect. 😉
Shaz,
It would be brilliant, aside from the fact that the rabid Sandor/Sansa fans would be at it again in full force, and I’d have to stop reading anything to avoid the migraines induced by aggressive eyerolling. BLEH.
Now, Sandor and Brienne I could get behind.
Deesensfan,
Theon was baptized , the iron born have the drowned god but euron prays to all the gods . And he’s the most godliest man cause men and woman pray when they see his sails . Honestly there’s like 50 diffrent religions in westeros , we only really know about 7-8 of em from
Books and show
Deesensfan,
Me to
flintwielder,
Kinda worried you’re stalking me now. Look, if your simplistic view of the world places me into either book fan or show fan then fine. I’ll happily sit into whatever category you want me in so your poor brain doesn’t explode at the complication that I might actually be both or neither. Maybe when you mature a little you’ll realise that most of the world takes place in the grey. Until then , continue with your obnoxious ways and let the learning process take place. I’ll leave you with a simple equation to get you started. Your attitude + Other people = Loneliness.
Deesensfan,
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
At the end of the day, it’s personal preference and opinion. Most people on here realise that and merely explain why they think the way they do and question why other people do the way they do/ Unfortunately, some people think being questioned is entering into some sort of contest and not ( what it’s intended to be) to find out why other people think the way they do and explore the subject.
I enjoyed it but mainly because Jaime is probably my favourite character so I was more forginving. Did find the whole of Feast ok to be honest. Was some nice downtime and rest from the chaos that was SoS. Built up new storylines and bedded in new characters. I do think Dorne needed a couple of recognisable characters to introduce it though as I honestly struggled to care about anyone except Doran and Arianne.
I think they may not be doing things chronologically so Jaime and Brienne were found other, shall we say less relevant, things to do this season as other storylines played out and they may pick it up at a later date (maybe with someone else as LSH proxy) as they seem to be doing with Euron and have done in the past with other storylines to some degree. Both could quite easily end up in the Riverlands about mid next season so we shall see if that’s something that is pursued.
Tormund’s Woman,
Okay so then why would warg into ghost .. how would that save him from dying?
(PS – I havent read the books so nothing i say is spoiler, but how do you do spoiler tags??)
According to the books,
That comes up on the show, too: at one point, Jojen warns Bran that he cannot hide out in Summer for too long, or he will get lost there.
One, the fact that nothing would have been done with them would have made it bad TV for the vast majority of viewers. Surprises that lead nowhere are bad television, plain and simple. “Next year” counts for nothing: it has to mean something this year.
Two, the stuff that you want added would have taken many scenes and many minutes of TV. Following #1, if they added those things, then there had to be some payoff this season: and that would mean creating stuff not yet in the books, because none of these things have payoffs in Crows/Dragons. Moreover, the payoff has to be for one of the main characters: so, how do you set up storylines around these plots with satisfying conclusions? Cutting 1-2 minutes of Tyene would not come close to creating the room needed. Moreover, cutting Tyene requires replacing it with some other scene that hangs the poison gun on the wall. Otherwise, people think that Myrcella bumped her nose or has had her cocaine habit catch up to her. The “I’m the most beautiful woman in the world” set up the conclusion: and you have to set up conclusions on good TV.
And, no, they cannot just send word that Myrcella is dead. Who the hell is Myrcella? The audience doesn’t remember some girl from 3 years ago: she has to be shown here and now. For her contribution to mean anything, she has to be shown being dippy about Tyrstane. And the audience has to see Jaime being not-Tywin in the end. That is Jaime’s part of the story, after all.
As for the dialog, that is icing. Yeah, there was some great witty banter in Season 2. However, Season 5 really did not have space for witty banter (although Tormund calling Jon prettier than his daughters cracked me up to no end). This was a dark, brooding tale: and all of the levity has been snuffed out of even characters like Tyrion.
To the bitter end! 😀
(Even in the books,
)
And cookies are always great ideas.
It wasn’t just tyene tho obara and nym sand all repeated lines this season ( if yeh took
All the repeated lines from the 3 sand snakes ) than you’d get some time
TheTouchOfFrost,
It would take quite a set of happenstances now for Jaime and Brienne to re-encounter each other but the show isn’t shy of getting characters where they need to be for the story! That last Jaime chapter in ADWD definitely left it at a very intriguing point and that is one of the things I really want to know where it goes…
You’d think Show!Brienne has to head back southwards now anyway at some point soon, unless the writers are really going to pull a flanker.
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
I’m not sure what’s going to happen. I imagine Jaime’s end game will be with Cersei somehow. Brienne? Who knows as beyond Sansa and Arya I don’t see much purpose for her. She’s been like a thrid wheel all this seaso. I don’t mind it in the books as she’s a more endearing character but have less patience with the show version as I don’t find her likeable in the least.
If Septon Meribald is being cast as seems possible then the Riverlands might be back on the menu and it would be a way to bring Brienne back on track as it were (albeit that she has to travel 1200 miles and find him by chance). It’s in the realms of slightly daft Fan Fiction I know but if Brienne and Jaime and not dead!The Hound all met up it would be kind of fun…
Deesensfan,
LOL! you don’t have to worry. John warging Ghost is just a bookfan theory. It’s not a spoiler. I put spoiler tags simply because
The idea of warging Ghost in the books works for a short period of time only, until Mel finally pulls her head out of her butt, figures the importance of Jon vs Stannis and finds a way to resurrect Jon. In the show she has knowledge of the kiss of life from Thoros, so all she needs do is copy it. Bookwise is a little more difficult.
Tormund’s Woman,
Ahhh
I hope youre right
I really cant do this show without Jon.
Tormund’s Woman,
Sorry bit late in the defence here, but I’m a fan of yours too! Although I’m sure you already knew that and you do seem to be managing fine on your own 🙂
If anyone cares I’m in the Jon is very much dead (as in was stabbed a number of times and lost a huge amount of blood) but is 99.9% certain to come back in some form camp. The reasons are a massively long post’s worth so I won’t bore you with them unless anyone’s really interested, but I must give credit to Wimsey for his posts on how the structure of stories works, which once I thought about it was the definite clincher. Perhaps we can have a new bottom of the page poll on it?
As for Jon’s revenge, either by him or on his behalf, personally I always hope people get the ending they deserve when their time comes. The most poetic for me would be if the mutineers have to go north of the wall for some reason and get the full white walker treatment. It would give them plenty of time to think “oh **** Jon was right all along, he was trying to save everyone” and come to the same terrible realisation Stannis did that their demise is entirely due to their own actions. Others have said this too but the show is turning fans into homicidal maniacs. Spending serious time imagining how I would like fictional characters to die is not something I’d normally do! O_O
EDIT: Can anyone tell me how to do the face at the end of my post (above) in a smiley styley? I only worked out how to smile, frown and wink by accident a couple of weeks ago. I’m 47, I can’t cope with modern technology! 😉
Lulu’s Mum,
Hahahaa this is sooo true:
“Others have said this too but the show is turning fans into homicidal maniacs.”
Grand maester giz,
If that is true, then these repeated lines took up seconds and seconds. You need dozens and dozens of minutes for what you propose: probably another full episodes worth. Remember, the Sandsnakes didn’t even turn up until the middle of the season: I bet that their total screen time was under 15 minutes as a subset of Jaime’s storyline. Adding plotlines for the Iron Born, LSH and/or YG would have required much more time because Jaime’s storyline still has to be there and the story for some other protagonist would have to be involved. Tyrion wasn’t going to stay with YG long enough to create a story, so that is out. Send Sansa to one of them? That doesn’t work well because Sansa’s storyline piggybacked on Theon’s and Brienne’s: all three of them got to share a lot of the “setup” stuff. There certainly is no room for new protagonists.
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
My bet is that Brienne will be off after Sansa. Word will get out quickly that Sansa has escaped, and Ramsay will want his bride and his Reek back. (He always does….. 😉 )
Now, whether Brienne goes in the right direction or not, I have no idea.
Hodor Targaryen,
No problem! I thought it was odd that it hadn’t been posted, as Davos is Stannis’ right hand man, and there hasn’t been much on the actor’s departure from the show, considering that he was a main character.
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
Sandor will be on his way to KL for the Cleganebowl though surely?! 😛
It could happen, as the BwB and Freys need some sort of resolustion and there’s no otehr characters around there at the moment. Sansa could possibly step into her mothers shoes but she doesn’t have the pure hatred of SH and I can’t see why she’d have any personal issues with Jaime. Perhaps the Blackfish leading the BwB. I think Sansa may head back to the Vale or at least hook up with their army. George must be keeping her there for something. Must admit I’m kind of wanting the Hound to get some revenge on Brienne!
A great article by Alyssa Rosenberg …
Despite all the noise, criticism and the faux outrage that Season 5 generated, it was still an outstanding artistic achievement:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2015/06/17/what-season-5-of-game-of-thrones-taught-us-about-westeros-and-ourselves/
Mr Fixit,
The first season was bloody amazing. I just think that the third season was the first in which the show truly found its voice, both in terms of writing and visuals. It’s the first interesting adaptation, to start with —As an adaptation, Season 1 was incredibly easy compared to the other ones, and it was pretty much a direct adaptation, even when sometimes they could’ve changed a few things to make it better for TV. Season two was kind of a mess, and season three I believe was when they started being confident about adaptation choices. The cinematography got amazing in season three, as well, though season two looked mostly great too. That goes doubly for the special effects, costuming, sets, and even the acting —We may have loved Tyrion from the beginning, for example, but when we go back to him in season one now, I see more of Dinklage and less of Tyrion.
Deesensfan,
Actually, like Lulu’s Mum and while I am a book fan myself I do not actually subscribe to Jon warging Ghost theory. I think it would be tiresome to follow the musings of a wolf with Jon’s thoughts hunting for a couple of chapters when all around you got WW and magic and battles happening.
Plus I personally prefer him to be dead because there were a LOT of knives and Mel is a smart cookie. She knows how she can resurrect him (there’s power in a king’s blood), as long as she starts interpreting her shit right. I WILL however hate her forever if she burns Shireen for Jon and hope she’ll die an icy death just so it would be completely out of her reach to get to R’hllor. (this is all pure speculation!)
And THUS, *insert here ominous music* TW becomes the homicidal maniac Lulu’s Mom prophesied we all are when it comes to GoT fiction world… BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!
PS Lulu’s Mom, : D with no space between makes a 😀
And Deesensfan, the spoiler tags are: [ spoiler ] insert spoiler here [ / spoiler ] Again with no space in between inside the parenthesis
EDIT: Haha Oops, my reading comprehension lapse strikes again! you meant 0_0. Sorry, no idea!
Tormund’s Woman,
No, I am the same, I do not want to see Jon’s story through a wolf. And I do not want him to come back played by another character. There is no connection there. I am praying and hoping that Mel will say a prayer (just like thoros of myr did) and the Lord will answer. Thoros of Myr explained that he had begun to question his faith when finally the Lord answered with a favour by bringing his friend to life. I am hoping that Melisandre, the broken priestess who I am sure is beginning to question her faith based on the look on her face, will say a prayer and save our Man.
I don’t think the she sacrificed Shireen for Jon.. she did it for Stannis… But I may end up paying of for the true Chosen One.
And thank you for the tips on spoiler tagging.
I haven’t chuckled like this in the whole day! This is what happens when a bookwalker meets an Unsullied!!! The speculation I was making re: burning Shireen was for the Winds of Winter, seeing as I would hate to read whole chapters about Jon Ghost 😀
I think show fans have more to work with in the show universe seeing as Mel knows Thoros resurrection. I just don’t know what will happen with Kit saying outright he’s out for Season 6. I’m not so sure he’d lie…
Tormund’s Woman,
Hahaha Wow! ya I was talking about the show.
Hmmm so you don’t think he would lie? why?
If he said “I can’t comment on if I am coming back or not” It would be so obvious that he is coming back…
And if he said “Yes as far as I know I am coming back” Then what would have been the purpose of the cliffhanger, unless…. he could have said that and then we only end up with a funeral scene (Tywin style) and that’s it… but he didn’t say that anyway
SO I am not sure what else he can say..
I feel like that interview came out sooo quickly after episode 10 finished… it was perfectly timed – and because that interview is out on the record, he wont be attacked by media every time because that interview is on the record. They will still ask him, but he can always refer back to that interview.
Ugh…
I don’t know, wishful thinking is causing me to over-hypothesize.
Lulu’s Mum,
Deesensfan,
Tormund’s Woman,
I agree with you guys. I think that the “Jon will Warg” conjecture overly stresses the prologue to Dragons. After all, why include it if it wasn’t going to lead to something? But I think that this misses that it already led to something: we learned a lot about what was going to happen to Bran in that chapter. And, if anything, we learned why Jon isn’t going to warg into Ghost.
At any rate, B&W certainly would not have joked about this in public had they been planning to do it. They almost certainly know that this is a popular fan conjecture and they probably were poking fun at it. Moreover, this would be difficult to pull of in a book: it would be impossible to pull off on TV. After all, so much of the story is in how the character interacts with others: and how can you do that with a canine?
Wimsey,
I agree on the comment that what Weiss said was a joke. I cannot imagine for a second that they would joke about that…
So the only way we get Jon back is just exactly how Beric came back to us then?
From that damned interview he said:
Yeah, but we have to go by what Thrones does. And Thrones treats drama as real life. And people die and don’t accomplish what we think they’re meant to in real life. And I think that’s one of the powerful things about Thrones. The major loss with Jon’s through-line is he never finds out who his mother is and that’s the heartbreaking thing for me.
Seems so serious about Jons fate.
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview
Man, I miss counting the days until Sunday. Now all we have is our own speculation with ages to go before finding out if we’re full of crap or not. 🙂
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
Have they ever mentioned “Azor Ahai” in the show!?
Not by that name AFAIK but in season 2 finale
Double post
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
Ya I remember that..
Okay so never using the term AA
What about the prince that was promised?
Don’t know if the internet was broken by this episode, but it seems to have guaranteed that the serious conversations will continue for much longer than they usually do at season’s end. Good, that will make the long months until next April go much faster.
I think that some issues in the show, as they are in life, are going to be affected by the bank – the Iron Bank, in this case. Varys and Littlefinger can’t be the only ones with a huge spy network. It’s imperative to the Bank’s survival that they keep track of conditions all over the world: How are the grape harvests, or grain harvests, or olive harvests going; who’s cattle and sheep are doing well; what lord is pleading poverty but just put a master bedroom with en suite bath into his mansion. It won’t take long for them to hear about Stannis’ plight, and then the fun begins for the Bank.
With Stannis gone and owing, there is a whole fleet of ships at Eastwatch to be foreclosed upon, and the island and assets of Dragonstone to be seized. The ships can probably be sold quickly, but the island has a heretofore unknown huge asset: the dragon glass. That will be a supremely necessary commodity for the world, especially Westeros.
The Bankers in Bravos won’t be so concerned for their own safety, because apparently White Walkers are averse to water. But with the great supply of dragonglass, they will have all of Westeros by the throat. Unless, of course, that devil Littlefinger pops up with the ready cash to buy Dragonstone, then the world is really fu****. Then it will become the Game of Supply and Demand, probably the most devastating game of them all. Surely one of the most effective ones.
Not used in the show that I recall.
Have you never seen Lassie? “What’s that Ghost, the white walkers are coming and the only way to kill them is with dragon glass or Valyrian steel and if we follow you, you’ll take us to a handy nearby supply?” Totally do-able! 😉
Every time people write AA I think of Alcoholics Anonymous, My name’s Tyrion/Cersei and I like the wine, not to mention when I see TWOW (The Winds of Winter) in my head I hear tee WOW!
Thronetender,
Excellent point!!!
Turner and Hooch!
Wallace and Gromit!
Scooby dooby doo!
OK, I’ll go now…
Lulu’s Mum,
You don’t like my “Dragonstone gets purchased by Littlefinger, so he eventually does own the world” theory?
Ghost is going to have to tear someone’s throat out. Unless the NW murderers already got him, too.
Okay, now I’m getting way off topic, but I am interested to find out why you think Season 2 was a mess. Don’t get me wrong, I also believe it’s the weakest season, but after having rewatched it recently, I found it very good. Sure, there were more weak spots than usual — primarily Jon’s arc for me — though far from a what I’d personally call a “mess”.
From the VFX team interview:
http://www.yahoo.com/tv/game-of-thrones-dragons-white-walkers-vfx-121365015845.html
Seven heard us.
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
Scooby doo be serious! Never seen it. But as long as there a Ghost in it…
Lulu’s Mum,
THAT’S RIGHT! That’s EXACTLY how Winds is supposed to be. WoW. I just hope I read it before I die and say that out loud.
Thronetender,
Love it. It’s because I was always a firm believer in the Iron Bank / the Crown/ Petyr Baelish fraud connection anyway, where he single handedly financially ruined the crown while skimming off the top the investment monies received through loans from the IB. I wouldn’t put it past him to buy Dragonstone and hold the monopoly on Dragonglass. It would be just like him to sell at 10 times the price anything with obidisian in it.
Thronetender,
Sorry, not ignoring you, went off to find supplies, Watching is hungry work. I think you might be on to something no one has so far guessed. Here in the UK bankers have been regularly getting some really bad press as new ways they have abused their own system to the detriment of everyone else come to light. What if…..the Iron Bank are the ultimate evil in the show? Enough to cause the white walkers and humans to unite as they face a common enemy. I badly want to see LF crash and burn and he has deals going with everyone, so could quite easily be the biggest banker* of them all. Never mind Ghost, I want to rip this throat out! But as I said somewhere, maybe above maybe another thread, I want people to get the ending they deserve and as I am not actually a character in this world – thank every god there is and a couple of new ones I just made up – there’s a very long queue in front of me to do the honours (personally hoping Sansa takes him down).
As for the NW guys, they are cowards I reckon, trick an unarmed man into a trap and kick him when he’s down, it’s not like he could fight back. Of course they thought they were doing the right thing and if it was someone I hated on the receiving end I would be applauding them. But hey, as a viewer I don’t have to be fair and neutral, as I try to do in real life, and can and do pick sides. So ner! 😉 Your theory is good which is why I fear it and hope Ms Stark gets there first! 😀
Bit of word play there for any fellow Brits 🙂
Thank you 😉 I awoke in the middle of the night, thinking about how fast the bank would act. (maybe I was also thinking about the bills on my desk, whatever.) I was so proud of Jon for getting Stannis’ ships back, just as he promised to do, then when Stannis died (?) wondering what would happen to the ships.
Knowing that he couldn’t even crawl home and hide, because the Iron Bank would be haunting him, probably added to Stannis’ tired resignation, sitting there at the base of that tree.
StandOzone,
Oh my god,you people have problems seriously,get some help . Yeah,i’m sure they are going to bring back this character when we have another character that has to be brought back the EXACT SAME WAY,genius storytelling there.
StandOzone,
Thanks! I thought you were trolling us LOL but that’s from the interview. And this is where I go in the corner of the room and jump up and down quietly so no one knows I have gone completely insane because of a small chance of inclusion and very fortuitous ambiguous wording…
Also, I feel bad for what the White Walker X must have gone through in school…
Turner and Hooch!
Wallace and Gromit!
Scooby dooby doo!
If it was Scooby Doo Olly would be Scrappy Doo 🙁 Wallace and Gromit for the win! They would solve everything with some nifty inventions and loads of visual jokes, which let’s face it we could do with occasionally; sometimes I watch disaster films for light relief afterwards.
Tormund’s WOWman (see what I did there? 😀 ) have you really never seen Scooby Doo? I’m not recommending it (kids cartoon that doesn’t have anything for adults unlike some) but I think they have at least one ghost – of the ooooh I’m haunting you rather than direwolf variety – every episode so your comment is more fitting than you could possibly realise. As for the book he’s taking so long to write it you’d hope it’ll be the WOW of Winter rather than the Whatever which I gather a lot of people feel about the last two.
JonSnow25,
I like to know what you think they are referring then… not saying that my bet is right… what can it be?
They can use
as an opening before intro, then return to the Wall where Melisandre and Davos stand beside Jon’s dead body.
Wow, I thought I made a good call, and you added something brilliant to it! I was thinking of the Bank as a sideline evil, but yeah, they could be the biggest problem.
Here’s something else: in Meereen, during the mourn-fest on the steps of the throne, who kept the peace and came up with the most logical plan of action? Not Tyrion, it was Dario. Dario kept the conversation going, when everyone was flying off on their own tangents. Even more telling, everyone listened to him and agreed with him. He called those shots, he made the best use of the assets at hand. Sexy, handsome, wild man, dangerous but wise, with a strong ego kept fully in check – Dario isn’t going to be relegated to being a side-boo. I think D & D have great plans for Dario.
StandOzone,
Well i can’t speculate what they are reffering considering we are mostly past the books at this moment but it can be anything,jumping to conclusion won’t do anybody any good, just this week the Benjen thing got blown out of proportions .
Thronetender,
Perhaps George is delaying the rest of the story so he can essentially crowd source ideas? He apparently has an outline in place but isn’t exactly sure of the fine details. Not only does he have D&D filling in some gaps for him, but now has a world-wide bunch of people who love his story, know it in massive detail and spend happy hours trying to work out what’s going to happen. He can just nick the best ideas and say of course it was ALWAYS going to be like that and it’s just a TOTAL coincidence that some people seemed have guessed bits of it, honest! If we start seeing posts on here from Meroge R. R. Gartin asking for more detail on specific bits of speculation, it might be time to get suspicious 😉
JonSnow25,
But they said that [whatever they are referring to] was originally in the first drafts from S4 and S5. It should be something that is in published material. If they introduce characters when they are important to the story I think there are two possibilites… she and Coldhands… I don’t think is Coldhands… well, maybe a branch grew in the eyehole of the Three Eyed Raven.
Lulu’s Mum,
No, actually I think GRRM has already completed the next installment, and will drop it on us very soon. I think the one bit of advice he might have taken from all of this would be to keep his story tighter. Other than that, I think the whole world has been seduced into thinking he hasn’t been writing, when the thing may well be near done.
The thing about GRRM is, he’s going to write his story, his way, come hell or White Walkers. That’s why we are all here, reveling in the world he’s created, warts and all. We will see.
StandOzone,
But why bring it now,it just doesn’t make sense from a story perpective after 3 seasons of her being dead,also didn’t David and Dan said they didn’t want to bring back Michelle just to play a zombie character ? Even the shock value isn’t there considering her character has already been spoiled by now by almost anyone who at least reads articles about the show,social media,youtube comments,it’s just pointless . If they wanted to bring her back it would have been season 4 at late,but now it’s too late .
Thronetender,
I was just joking, not very good at being serious unless I have to 😀 I don’t know much about GRRM at all, just pick up on what people say here. I’d never heard of GoT before it was on tv but gather his writing pace has slowed down the further into the story he got and that when the show was first in development, apparently about 8 years ago, it looked as if the whole thing would have been finished and published by now and the question of the show overtaking the books never arose. Publishing date-wise I shall apply the same mind set I do to the show itself: there are approximately 87 billion possibilities and we won’t know for certain until it happens (although guessing is always fun) 🙂
EDIT: It’s 11.40pm here I’m signing off for the night. Have fun y’all 🙂
I was just watching some youtube videos, and concerning the R+L=J stuff, Aren’t Targaryens know for their white/silver hair??
Thronetender,
I hope they do – I’ve always liked ‘new’ Daario, although it’s been fairly easy to poke fun at him. I love how he refereed Tyrion and Jorah’s bickering, and also how both he and Jorah looked when Tyrion told them that neither of them were fit as consorts for the queen – they both had that “Ugh, I’d protest, but it’s kinda true…..” expression.
Jorah being my favourite character, I’m looking forward to the road trip of smart remarks.
Deesensfan,
Yes, they are. 🙂 You should do what I’m planning right now – since we have a long wait until next season, I’m watching seasons 1-4 again, then 5 when it comes out on dvd as well. There is so much that…isn’t exactly ‘forgotten’, but maybe missed that gives clues or references to the newer episodes and deeper meaning to the characters, as well as explanations of the religions, family histories, battles, etc.
Wouldn’t it be cool to have an ‘episode’ club, where a group of us watched an episode a week and discussed things that we may not have caught on the first few go rounds? 🙂 If I didn’t want to just stick to one website of discussions, I’d do it!
Pigeon,
I would be so down for that
and I am planning on watching them all very soon, I have all the seasons and I have all of season 5 PVRED
But I mean, Jon doesn’t have silver hair. so what does that mean?
Usually yes, but not always. After Dorne had become a part of the Seven Kingdoms through marriage between Targs and Martells, certain Targaryens manifested dark hair thanks to their partial Dornish ancestry.
Lulu’s Mum,
I had never heard of him, either, until the show. I didn’t even start watching it until just before the 4th episode. HBO had a mini-marathon of the first three episodes on the Saturday before the fourth one was to air. I had the channel on, was puttering around my house and starting watching, first a minute or two, then I sat down and by the end of the third episode, I was totally hooked.
I am only semi-sullied; I read the first 3 books then tried to get into the fourth one, gave up, deciding to see where the show would go. But I have read every darned spoiler with relish, and gone on the WIKI and any other sites I could find, following as much history as I could.
I am totally amazed at the mind of GRRM, creating this vast world and world history into which we’ve all happily immersed ourselves . That’s not to say I approve of all his prose, or all of the torture he so gleefully and effectively pens. Yet, I find inspiration in the fact that he’s kept at it, and also in the fact that he’s what, 63 or 64? That means there’s hope for all of us as we age – the mind still clicks deliciously and it ain’t over ’til it’s over. Keep on writing, George.
I’d do it, would love to. Let us know.
Mr Fixit,
Yes, but Rhaegar had silver hair according to Little finger. Dany and Viserys as well.
Considering Jon would be a direct relation to them, shouldn’t he have silver hair as well.
DOES THAT DISPEL our theory
Deesensfan,
As with real world genetics, even members of the same family can have very different hair colours. In this case, Rhaegar and Daenerys were the product of incest: the Mad King and his wife were brother and sister as was common among the Targaryens, so I guess the chances were good they’d both have silver hair. Jon, on the other hand, is part Stark, and they are usually dark-haired.
Mr Fixit,
Ohh okay.Phew.
I did not know that Mad King had children with his wife.
Was that in the show? I don’t remember
Okay I am just trying to find reasons why they would drop jon from the show, worst case scenario shit!
I think that Mendel had a good explanation for that…
They have said several times that that Mad King was Daeny’s & Viserys’ father.
Deesensfan,
I don’t believe it was specified that the Mad King married his sister in the show, but it has been mentioned several times that the Targaryens practiced incest.
I stand corrected!
My guess is that Jaime will oppose Cersei starting an all-out war with Dorne.
Bronze Yohn Royce ! – probably the best name/nickname combination in the story.
Everyone in Dorne was a foil for Jaime. That’s the way that storytelling works: a small number of characters are protagonists and the vast majority of characters are just foils. They were not going to elevate Myrcella or the Sand Snakes or Ellaria into protagonists, particularly at this late stage for this type of story.
JonSnow25,
Maybe because now is when she will be important to the plot. We know that Walder Frey will appear in the show again… She is also important in Brienne and Jaime’s storylines… I’m not sure if Brienne will go back south, but Jaime could head north… I think the end of S5 was when she could have a moment, but Brienne was busy killing Stannis in Winterfell… so, we will see.
Does Jon’s death automatically release him from his Night Watch vows, or does someone have to say “and now his watch is over?” If so, can anyone say it, like Davos, or does it have to be said by a member of the NW?
I am still clinging to the belief the Kit Harington will be back as some incarnation of Jon. I notice there hasn’t been a curtain call for him yet. Or Stannis.
Wimsey,
SOrry I meant had children with his sister
Wimsey,
Whos mendel?
Thronetender,
I am not sure what the answer tothat would be, I mean, normally when a NW man dies, they just die. Interesting question. I am sure if he does return, it wouldn’t be to return to the NW, or else why kill him at all.
As am I. this totally sucks. Worst “cliffhanger” ever.
I hope we never see a Kit Harington curtain call.
Just on the idea of Dany and Arya meeting up as discussed earlier, is there any foreshadowing for that? They are a long way apart geographically.
StandOzone,
I have serious doubts LS would be a VFX undertaking in any way (I would assume LS would be prosthetics), much less one that would inspire that type of reaction. My money would be on giant ice spiders… or maybe the Night’s King home base/ ice city. Something on those lines would require VFX work and might excite the artists – Not LS. No.
Darquemode,
Mmm… Giant Ice Spiders… it is possible… but why in S4? Scorting the White Walker with Craster’s baby back to the Land of Always Winter?
StandOzone,
That would be my guess, but I have no clue honestly.
I understand the timing might make some think of LS, but even if they would use VFX and not make-up, I can’t see it being something so difficult that a VFX artist would freak out like that.
I can’t see it being dragon related since most of the big dragon scenes have made it to screen… Well, excluding Quentyn charbroil. Maybe a flashback of something? The timing seems wrong for that since they were against flashbacks in Season 4 I think… Maybe they were going to make 3 Eyed Crow/ Bloodraven super tree-like? Nah…
I could be overlooking something I’m sure, but not a lot of WTF inspiring VFX moments come to mind right now.
Deesensfan,
Dees, you are right, worst cliffhanger ever. I rewatched the episode very carefully, looking for something that might give a clue as to Jon’s ultimate fate. I posted yesterday that I was sure I saw the light change on his face as he lay there. It got brighter and I’m sure he moved his head a little bit, as though he was seeing something above him. sigh. If Kit is gone from the show permanently, I will be unhappy. Probably still watch, but grumbling the whole time.
Thronetender,
I didn’t notice.. I haven’t had the guts to watch that scene again. it really bothers me. I hope you are right
And I feel you, if Kit is gone from the show, it would really affect my interest in the story and what happens. Ill still watch, but like you, going uggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the WHOLE TIME
All my posts here would start with
UGGHHHHH WHY IS KIT GONE! LOL
StandOzone,
Ice spiders! I think we might see them during the inevitable second battle at the Wall when the White Walkers will finally try to break through. They would be most advantageous to have in that instance (for the Others anyway).
That’s what I thought last year.
-Rygritte
Darn, and I thought they (GRRM and D&D) were just trolling the public. But last year there was still book left to cover, this year they are caught up, right? So maybe there will be a book by the end of the year. Or not.
Not. It is already late June. If GRRM finished tomorrow, then it might get out by the end of the year. However, he’s not going to do that.
He is the guy that worked out basic genetics about 150 years ago. For a simple recessive system (say, a population with only black hair and blonde hair genes), the Mendelian ratio gives you an estimate of how common the two gene types are: basically, if both gene types occur in equal frequencies, then you expect a ratio of 3:1 black hair:blonde hair people because only those with blonde+blonde (25% of the population).
The Targs are pretty damned recessive, so unless Lyanna had some blonde genes in her, Jon was going to be dark haired. (That’s not completely implausible: Robb & Sansa are auburn haired, which would be consistent with Ned having a blonde-haired gene recessive to auburn; of course, he might also just have had an auburn gene; and, of course, Lyanna might not have had it.)
Darquemode,
Considering that Nymeria is still there… maybe it could be a
would need VFX, doesn’t it?
Robb Snow,
I guess we will… but not sure they were referring to Ice Spiders. They stated that was originally planned for S4. Make sense that D&D explore the possibility to use them for Hardhome in S5, not before.
StandOzone,
Ahh! That it would!
Good idea….
Hmmm… I’m not sure we will see Arya have her wolf dreams like in the books. I know at one point D&D said they wanted to keep Bran unique among the Stark kids, but I can’t remember if they were referring to visions or warging… Visions I think, but I’m sure someone else recalls for sure.
Either way, part of me wonders if we will see the huge wolf pack with Nymeria, but it certainly would be awesome if we do!!
StandOzone,
It might’ve been intended as the original mount for the White Walker in Oathkeeper, or perhaps they had plans for more White Walker scenes but didn’t shoot or cut them (I actually recall reading there was another scene with the Night’s King that got cut).
They did mention ice spiders in Hardhome though and even touched on the possibility of their existence, so the precedent has been set. Bring them on!
Re-watched the Mereen scenes in the last episode. There’s some pretty obvious setup for conflict among Dany’s advisers
– Tyrion telling Daario and Jorah neither are suitable consorts
– Jorah’s hostility to Tyrion over his position and banishment
– Lingering closeup on Jorah looking suspiciously at Daario before he follows him
– and especially Varys telling Tyrion “you need to learn which of your friends are not your friends” referring specifically to Mereen.
I used to think more Mereen would be are bore but I’m looking forward to it now.
Darquemode,
A likely reason why they are having Arya go blind is to develop the warg angle. It was too early to do it in prior seasons: you cannot just have a character having visions without some payoff. We got payoffs with Bran right away, but there would not have been anything relevant for Arya’s visions to generate.
We do not know that Season 6 will have a payoff on that, but as the payoff is supposed to come in Winter or Spring, it is about 50:50.
Actually, Varys’ line might be a setup for the whole season: I can see this being a good description of the Winter story. At any rate, do not expect them to linger in Mereen overlong: Winter is supposed to emphasize Daeny’s return journey to Westeros.
Art is growing up so fast and has clearly hit puberty lol I really hope they don’t recast him. I was not at all impressed w/ the Myrcella recast they really didn’t give her anything interesting to do and then she died #JusticeForAimeeRichardson
Hodoreo,
yeah – especially cause he was talking about stuff later in the summer that he “can’t talk about” – obviously GoT
I do think Sansa and Theon will be seperated. Sansa going back to Vale for LF(For Revenge(?)) thats why Royce is back and Theon will be alone until Yara found him. I dont know about Brienne and Ramsay though.
Valaquen,
Oh for Pete’s sake…….Dorne was SUCH a waste of film. Proof needed?????? Hand slapping, idle bullshit ramblings, fucking ear biting, too many wheelchair sequences of banaal man taking mouth shit from noone important and half hearted attempts to practice writing left handed. Bleech.
Deesensfan,
Silver hair, purple eyes carried genetically due to inbreeding-keeping the Targaryen dynasty purely “dragon’s blood”. Jon’s dark hair and dark eyes come from Lyanna Stark. Jon, Bran and Arya all have the same dark Stark genes. Robb, Sansa and Rickon carry the blue eyed, auburn hair of House Tully. Azor Ahai…..The Prince Who Was Promised…….will rise with the genetic pool of Stark. Our hero will be crowned either The King of the North or The King Beyond the Wall. Looking forward to Ep. 9 & 10 season 6!