House of the Dragon Tentatively Set for 2022; Confederate Officially Dead!

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We can most likely expect House of the Dragon, the new Game of Thrones spinoff, in 2022, reports Deadline, who spoke to HBO President of Programming Casey Bloys today at the winter TCAs. The date was far from set in stone, but it’s the most firm news we’ve received in some time about the show.

“My guess is sometime in 2022,” Bloys said, with Deadline reporting he indicated it was “too early to be more specific.”

George RR Martin dished on the writers room of the spinoff back in November, confirming the involvement of Wes Tooke, Claire Kiechel, and Ti Mikkel, along with co-showunner Ryan Condal who is penning the pilot with Martin.

“They are starting writing,” Bloys confirmed, along with the news that there IS no casting news yet. He teased, “Obviously it’s a big, complicated show.”

In the interview, Bloys did take time to explain the failed pilot Blood Moon, written by Jane Goldman and starring Naomi Watts. Bloys explained to Deadline:

“In development, in pilots, sometimes things come together, sometimes they don’t,” he explained. “One of the things I think Jane took on beautifully, which was a challenge, there was a lot more world creation because she set hers 8,000 years before the (mothership) show, so it required a lot more. That is a big swing. One of the things about House of Dragons, there is a text, there is a book so that made it a little bit more of a road map for a series order.”

“I think Jane did a beautiful job, it was a big challenge but there was nothing that I would point to and say, oh, that one element did not work, just overall it did not quite gel. That’s one of the reasons when we started out to think about ‘Is there a life after Game of Thrones in terms of Game of Thrones’, we purposefully developed multiple projects. We would have been very lucky to do one pilot, have that pilot go and be a success but in development as you know, it takes a lot of tries to get it right, this is no different.”

Also coming out of the TCAs is the confirmation that David Benioff and DB Weiss’ follow-up show for the network called Confederate is officially dead. The controversial drama was announced a couple years as the next exciting step for the duo, but fans rightly pointed out that it was a really really terrible idea. It was commonly assumed to be not happening since D&D moved onto Netflix and other projects but now it’s confirmed: it’s history.

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    1. ” the interview, Bloys did take time to explain the failed pilot Blood Moon, written by Jane Goldman and starring Naomi Watts. Bloys explained to Deadline:

      “In development, in pilots, sometimes things come together, sometimes they don’t,” he explained. “One of the things I think Jane took on beautifully, which was a challenge, there was a lot more world creation because she set hers 8,000 years before the (mothership) show, so it required a lot more. That is a big swing. One of the things about House of Dragons, there is a text, there is a book so that made it a little bit more of a road map for a series order.”

      “I think Jane did a beautiful job, it was a big challenge but there was nothing that I would point to and say, oh, that one element did not work, just overall it did not quite gel. That’s one of the reasons when we started out to think about ‘Is there a life after Game of Thrones in terms of Game of Thrones’, we purposefully developed multiple projects. We would have been very lucky to do one pilot, have that pilot go and be a success but in development as you know, it takes a lot of tries to get it right, this is no different.”

      That’s a diplomatic way of saying HBO killed Jane Goldman‘s prequel before it had a chance to let the audience decide if it could “gel.”

      Sometimes new shows take a few episodes to gain their footing and attract an audience. Pulling the plug based on reactions to an unaired pilot? That could’ve been the fate of Game of Thrones…

      I’m still miffed. I really wanted to see Naomi Watts.😡

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    2. The world doesn’t deserve anymore brilliance from Mr. Benioff and Mr. Weiss. You two have been underappreciated and what you gave us (8 brilliant seasons and a breathtaking and beautiful finale and moments that will last forever) were taken for granted. I’ll always be grateful and wish you two good fortune in the wars to come.

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    3. There is no way to know if Confederate would have been terrible. People shouldn’t judge art until it’s complete. They also had multiple people of color involved. Instead Twitter outrage canceled a show that who knows maybe it would have sucked or maybe it would have been incredible.

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    4. I’m still sad about “Blood Moon” but excited for House of the Dragon as it can pull from more source material.

      “there was a lot more world creation because she set hers 8,000 years before the (mothership) show, so it required a lot more. That is a big swing. One of the things about House of Dragons, there is a text, there is a book so that made it a little bit more of a road map for a series order.”

      It seems Bloys was pointing to the same reason Kathleen Kennedy gave about the difficulty in making the Star Wars sequel trilogy – a lack of source material. I think Jane Goldman would have been great at worldbuilding, whereas with Star Wars I felt Kennedy basically admitted to a lack of creativity and originality on Disney’s part as well as completely ignoring writers in the extended universe who know Star Wars lore ranging from books, comics, graphic novels and tv series…but I digress.

      Also, I’m assuming the second volume of Fire and Blood will be out before 2022? The new series will have a lot to work with. And I’m not too sad about Confederate. The premise wasn’t great as it seemed D&D wanted to do a similar concept to The Man in the High Castle, but it does not really translate well.

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    5. Yeah…Winds of Winter is finished. It will be released this year.
      Yeah…A dream of Spring moves up the ladder. It moves closely to 2021.
      I know, I know, Martin said: “…….”.
      He will say he was working on both in parallel (which I’m sure he was).
      Then, in 2022 he’ll focus more on his beloved Targaryen family/dynasty.

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    6. 2022. Writing the years now that it’s hit 2020 seems somewhat surreal. I’m sure I felt the same way about the year 2000!

      Hoping for good things from the world of Westeros/Planetos. Seems so far away, but I suppose it will be here before we know it.

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    7. Fireandblood87,

      Confederate is the first victim of cancel culture. It’s completely insane to call for cancellation of some show based only on idea, especially since two black writers were involved with it.

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    8. It will be interesting to see HotD. But it’s still underwhelming that they cancelled Blood Moon. They obviously decided that dragons sell more; HotD would simply continue the industry that was GoT and will win them an awful lot of money.
      It’s that simple, and it’s the reason why GoT went down the hill in seasons 7 and 8. They made it a dragon story when it wasn’t one to begin with [GoT story-wise was the ending of dragons, but they still couldn’t refrain themselves from portraying a “hero” instead of a conqueror].
      Well now they’ll have a dragon story and I hope they’ll tell it well. Mind the trap though; the immorality of absolute power is present in every single page of FaB. You can’t portray heroes when the story is about yielding power.
      As for Martin, I believe that the latest news have him deeply immersed in the world of ASoIaF; he apparently confirmed that his priority is WoW and ADoS. Then the program has Dung and Egg stories. FaB II will delay it seems…

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    9. Confederate addressed a deeply sensitive issue in the body politic of the US. It would have required exceptional skill to address it in a fictional manner – and it may even be unwise to have thought of doing so before the US as nation came to terms with this aspect of its past. D&D did not have the record of achievement writing and gravitas to lead this project. how does one go from adapting a dragon show (and a 2/3 books) to feeling that they could tackle one of the great open wounds on America. Only hubris could have led them to propose such a project. (Having two black writers involved may or may not have been a fig leaf.) These black writers were also not with long records of artistic achievements.

      Luckily the project died in utero.

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    10. Efi,

      In my mind I like to think Drogon flew away and in one of the less well known parts of Planetos found himself a female dragon. (I know, I’m being an old softie there).

      I think it’s known I didn’t join in the widespread vituperation of the two Ds that followed the end of season 8. The first few seasons of GoT interested me to seek try and listen/read the audio/physical books of ASOIAF. My belief has been that Dany’s burning of Kings Landing was the third significant plot point GRRM told the show runners when they had the meeting to discuss where the story was headed when it first looked likely the show was going to outpace the books. It can’t be easy to finish a story as vast as ASOIAF especially when the author is still alive.* I’d also thought (I’ve said this before) at one time Dany’s mother might have had a “bit on the side” and Dany might not be the mad king’s daughter but it seems the house with a red door was a red herring.

      Didn’t GRRM rule out the use of the Dunk and Egg stories by HBO? Are they as bad as you imply? I had wondered about trying to get “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms” out on library loan.

      * I could write an essay about changes from the books to show I liked, was neutral about and really didn’t like but this isn’t the place – and my post is getting long in any case.

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    11. Iul: He will say he was working on both in parallel (which I’m sure he was).

      GRRM has actually stated the opposite – that ADoS will not be written until TWoW is finished. That was disappointing, as like you I imagined that he would be writing at least parts of ADoS. I find that when I’m stuck it often helps to write the ending first, or paragraphs that are going to come later in the article/letter or whatever I’m writing.

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    12. Dame of Mercia: Didn’t GRRM rule out the use of the Dunk and Egg stories by HBO? Are they as bad as you imply? I had wondered about trying to get “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms” out on library loan.

      Oh, do read them, I think you’ll enjoy them. I originally got the book from the library, but later was lucky to find a nice copy in a charity shop for £1.50.

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    13. The “Confederate” idea sounded completely useless to begin with. I guess, I just don’t understand what the point of that show was. Why have a show where the South won the civil war and slavery was never abolished? I….I just don’t understand what purpose there is in making a show like that. I guess maybe they were going for a Handmaid’s Tale type of show, but with race instead of gender?

      IMO, just not a good idea. Especially in our current political climate where race is already hamfisted into every conversation despite the fact that most people can’t discuss the topic in a mature, intelligent manner. It just sounds like it would’ve been nothing more than a lightning rod for criticism and vitriol, nothing more. I think D&D saved themselves quite a few headaches by passing on this project.

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    14. Mr Derp: I just don’t understand what purpose there is in making a show like that. I guess maybe they were going for a Handmaid’s Tale type of show, but with race instead of gender?

      I think that’s pretty obvious. The purpose would have been to show a hypothetical. An alternate way history could have gone. And would undoubtedly have shown how horrible it would have been if the South won. Which is not unworthy of being discussed, given that the confederate flag is still beloved by millions.

      Nonetheless, I have no confidence in D&D’s ability to handle this to the satisfaction of the rabid, outrage-seeking masses on social media, so I have to agree with your conclusion. It’s good they aren’t making this.

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    15. Nick20: I think that’s pretty obvious. The purpose would have been to show a hypothetical. An alternate way history could have gone. And would undoubtedly have shown how horrible it would have been if the South won. Which is not unworthy of being discussed, given that the confederate flag is still beloved by millions.

      Yes, I already understand that. My question still stands. What’s the point? You can make hypothetical situations about anything, anytime, anywhere. Why this? What good would it ultimately do? All it would do is fan the flames of racial tensions even more in this country.

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    16. Nick20: would undoubtedly have shown how horrible it would have been if the South won. Which is not unworthy of being discussed, given that the confederate flag is still beloved by millions.

      I understand where you’re coming from, but I disagree. There is no purpose in discussing this. We already know how bad slavery was. The dopes that still love the confederate flag are not going to suddenly change their minds and get all woke because of a hypothetical t.v. show. I doubt racists are going to watch a show like that anyway. There is no useful purpose for a t.v. show like that, IMO.

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    17. Dame of Mercia,

      ”In my mind I like to think Drogon flew away and in one of the less well known parts of Planetos found himself a female dragon. (I know, I’m being an old softie there).“

      Welcome, fellow softie.
      Allow me to extend an invitation down a tinfoil rabbit hole or two…

      • In my mind, Drogon was already carrying a clutch of eggs when she flew away with Dany’ to her nesting grounds in Old Valyria, where Dany would be revivified – perhaps concurrently with the birth of Drogon’s hatchlings.

      – I thought dragons are gender-fluid. Was there anything that established that Drogon was a “he”?
      I assume real-world avian physiology and behavior were used as a model for fictional dragons.

      – In captivity at least, even if a pair of pet birds are of the same sex, their behavior will often differentiate so that one bird displays “male” characteristics and the other exhibits “female” characteristics.

      – Also, upon reaching maturity, a single female caged bird will begin laying eggs even though they’re unfertilized and won’t hatch. What’s more, the hen will exhibit nesting behaviors – like flying off to explore secluded places to construct a nest. (A wooden box inside a cage serves the same purpose for pet birds whose freedom or mobility is limited.) During that nesting phase, a bird ordinarily bonded to and always wanting to be with her human companion, will suddenly want to be on her own and “disappear” into a secluded nook or cavity.
      (Digression: I had a lovebird 🦜who found a way inside a ceiling fixture, and as I later discovered, built a nest in it. That solved the mystery of Q-Tips on my countertop with the cotton stripped off: she was using the cotton to line her nest.)

      – I had previously thought that when Drogon went missing in S5 and then some time later as Jorah and Tyrion were sailing past Old Valyria they saw Drogon flying overhead, that Drogon hadn’t “abandoned’ Dany. She was simply off scouting out isolated nesting locations, and possibly incubating eggs where she wouldn’t be disturbed.
      (I’m unsure about GRRM’s dragon biology, e.g., whether they can produce viable eggs asexually.)

      – Anyway, that was my headcanon explanation for Drogon’s brief sojourn from her mother in Mereen.

      – Also, from Drogon’s curious physical appearance in S7e4 (i.e., distended belly), it looked like Drogon was carrying a full clutch of eggs. Didn’t Drogon look pregnant?

      • Dany, the “Mother of Dragons,” was somehow able to summon “dragons from stone” – living baby dragons from centuries-old ossified eggs.

      – Why shouldn’t that process also work the other way, such that her now-fully grown dragon could “incubate” Dany’s stone-cold body and revivify it? Why else would Drogon gently pick up Dany’s body and rush off in the direction of Old Valyria?

      – Alternatively, if Drogon was capable of producing viable eggs, why shouldn’t the same “magic” that enabled Dany to give life to Drogon and her two other “children” also restore life to Dany along with Drogon’s other hatchlings?

      • Drogon’s behavior at the end sure looked (to me) like classic avian nesting behavior: safeguarding and transporting a lifeless biological entity in nascent form to a safe place in order to (re-)generate into a living organism. If the “rules” of magic in GRRM’s universe operated to infuse the spark of life into fossilized dragon eggs, why wouldn’t the same principle apply to the body of an otherwise healthy young woman with “the blood of the dragon”?

      – After all, by all outward appearances the three ancient dragon eggs in S1 were merely exotic-looking, glorified paperweights that made a cool wedding gift. Everyone was stunned when they were placed in a funeral pyre – and instead of being incinerated in the flames. living baby dragons emerged from the embers the next morning. Revivifying an already-living but recently-expired human wouldn’t be that much of a stretch.

      • Plus, though they were rare, it’s not as if resurrections were unheard of. Disciples of the Lord of Light showed they had that ability, subject to the Lord of Light’s approval.

      – One of the “loose ends” (or seemingly elided story lines) on the show involved the Lord of Light’s High Priestess Kinvara, who had traveled to Mereen from the Red Temple in Volantis and pledged to serve the Dragon Queen.
      (Kinvara has also predicted that Dany’s dragons would “burn non-believers by the thousands.” She got that right! 🔥)

      – At the end of S8e6, didn’t someone say Drogon last seen headed to Volantis? If so (and if, as Tyrion said, dragons are intelligent), Drogon making a beeline to Volantis before Dany’s body was cold would make perfect sense if his or her instinctive objective was to seek the resurrection of “The Chosen One,” as Dany had been designated by the Lord of Light’s High Priestess in Volantis, as well as the street priestess on the Bridge of Volantis played by Rila Fukushima (a terrific actress egregiously underused for only one scene in one episode.)

      – Drogon flying off with Dany’s body and Bran saying he’d “try to” look for him, struck me as conspicuously open-ended. (BTW, I thought Bran could see all over the world all the time?)

      – I don’t know if this was deliberate or not. I suppose Drogon could’ve tried to cremate Dany or bury her.

      – I had also expected that Drogon might perish at the end, either voluntarily or because as many fans (logically) speculated, the role of magic in the world would diminish or start to disappear upon the extinction of the CotF, WWs, et al., the breaking of the spell shielding the Wall, etc.

      – I just found it awfully strange that Drogon would fly off with Dany’s body – with no indication of the reason or objective. Was this just a quick and underdeveloped plot point, or left intentionally open-ended? If the latter, then I’ll consider it justification for tinfoil speculation by the fandom.

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    18. Mr Derp, :

      No, I’m saying that I don’t understand what “purpose” even means in this case when you have like 400 shows made every year.

      The purpose is that writers thought it’s an interesting idea. Just like every show ever made.

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    19. mau:
      Mr Derp, :

      No, I’m saying that I don’t understand what “purpose” even means in this case when you have like 400 shows made every year.

      The purpose is that writers thought it’s an interesting idea. Just like every show ever made.

      Apparently not interesting enough, since it’s been canned.

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    20. mau,

      The original announcement of this show was made in the summer of 2017. I haven’t seen a continuous discussion on this show for 2-3 years. Just because it was announced 2-3 years ago and was officially cancelled recently doesn’t necessarily mean it’s been an endless discussion the whole time like you seem to be insinuating. In fact, I haven’t heard this show mentioned for a very long time. Moreover, the article that Luka linked specifically states that “scores of people made it clear they didn’t want a speculative series about slavery in the modern age”.

      Either way, It’s all art to me, which is completely subjective, and I am not in favor of censoring art, if the show was greenlit, then fine. I just don’t see how this show would do anything in the long wrong other than piss a lot of people off that are already overly sensitive on the topic of race.

      Fair or not, you’d get nothing but complaints that the show runners are white (even though there are POC involved in the project), or it’s slavery porn, etc… I guarantee it would all be nothing but distractions that would take away from the show itself and render the entire thing more divisive than productive in the end. IMO, there’s already more than enough of that to go around. We don’t need more of it.

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    21. Mr Derp,

      It would again be a cautionary tale
      Mr Derp,

      In your opinion. Which is fine. The fact remains Twitter outrage canceled a show before if was ever even made. That’s a slippery slope to start down when we start listening to Twitter all the time.

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    22. Fireandblood87: It would again be a cautionary tale

      True, but a cautionary tale that’s been told many, many times before, probably much more articulately and vividly than this hypothetical scenario would ever do. It just sounds like an irresponsible idea in a time when we are trying to bring people together, rather than divide. I don’t think this show would’ve created the discussion that HBO was originally hoping for.

      IMO, we don’t need hypothetical scenarios to deal with race relations. It’s controvery just for the sake of controversy. We already have very real scenarios in our real world every day that need to be dealt with. We should start there instead of conjuring up hypothetical scenarios for ratings. Just my opinion, of course.

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    23. mau,

      There was a campaign started by Twitter to hashtag cancel Confederate. They organized it sepciffacly to trend while episodes of GOT were airing.

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    24. mau,

      I think you’re intentionally misunderstanding me.

      There was no “but” in my statement. I said it shouldn’t be stopped, and I also said it’s not a good idea.

      I.E. It’s not illegal to walk down a dark alley in the middle of the night, but it doesn’t mean it’s a good idea or should recommended.

      If we’re going to have an honest discussion then you need to cut the crap.

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    25. Fireandblood87,

      Problem with USA and media there is that they believe twitter is public. And then elections happen and reality slaps them in the face…

      Twitter mob tried to destroy Joker before that movie was even out. In a similar way they declared that it’s a dangerous movie with dangerous ideas. And I won’t trust anyone who will say that there is a wrong idea in art. It’s totalitarian mindset.

      The same thing happened with Captain Marvel. In both cases reality showed how delusional these people are.

      The only dangerous thing are these people.

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    26. Mr Derp,

      The fact that Twitter mob can cancel the show is a bad thing, not some show that was never made. And irony here is that same mob will whine how black writers don’t get jobs while they killed their show.

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    27. mau,

      Twitter is something that you and I both agree on, it seems, so hey, common ground!

      Some people seem to use Twitter as an endless way to complain about everything. Most companies are so afraid of any negative publicity that they cave in to a few obsessive Twitter trolls. THough, I can’t say whether it was Twitter outrage or not that ultimately led to the cancellation of Confederate. It’s not clear if D&D’s choices to go to Netflix had anything to do with this, or their other projects that got abandoned/cancelled such as Star Wars…

      If people in general could handle sensitive topics such as race without getting into hysterics then I would probably be much more in favor of a show like “Confederate” in the first place.

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    28. Mr Derp,

      But my problem is – why we should cater to people who can’t handle sensitive topics? Why give them sense of importance and power? That will just make thing worse.

      Make Confederate and ignore Twitter outrage would have been my answer.

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    29. mau,

      I don’t entirely disagree with you. Do your thing and don’t feel the need to wait for others to catch up with you. I like that.

      However, when it comes to topics like this, most people have already made up their minds about how they feel and a fictional show about a hypothetical situation would almost certainly do nothing to change anyone’s minds. It would just be another lightning rod to start more arguments. The same ones that have been happening in perpetuity.

      IMO, I don’t think tv shows or movies really change people’s minds when it comes to race relations. IMO, racists are usually that way because they don’t get out very often and don’t experience anyone other than the same people that look exactly like they do. It’s a fear of the unknown.

      IMO, the only thing that can make a racist no longer racist is experience, meeting people that are different, and finding out through experience that people of other ethnicities are just as human as anyone else.

      I believe there are ways to discuss race relations and change people’s minds. I think that hypothetical tv shows just aren’t it.

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    30. Dame of Mercia,

      Goodness, I did write “Dung”, didn’t I? I meant “Dunk”, sorry! (speed and being in a hurry do that).

      I don’t think Martin’s projects have anything to do with HBO -apart from the fact that he can allow for the ending of GoT to be the lasting impression of the ending of ASoIaF.

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    31. Iul,

      I admire your optimism. I believe it’s certainly possible that Winds is released this year, but I’m afraid Dream is still many years away.

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    32. About the show: I’m glad it’s canned. I think D&D can come up with something better and more into their alley.
      If you want to show a show about racism, you should let somebody made it who has endured racism. Don’t get me wrong, D&D have had their own life experience, and they have probably something to tell viewers in a show about things that they have endured, but they haven’t endured racism, I don’t think they could really show and let us feel how that feels to be in such a position, and when watching a show I want to feel how it feels when you are in the mind of somebody who endured something like that. The best shows are always made when a topic that a writer suffered from is being portrait on screen. Look at for instance leftovers, you could really feel that Damon Lindelof knows the topic the show was about, mental health issues with suicidal thoughts.

      About the Long Night: Is Bloyd stating that not having a book was a reason for canning the show? He states that the HOTD has source material. I maybe should not stir up the pot, but is he afraid of the backlash that season 8 got? And that many prefer the early seasons, that he now wants a show that has once again source material of GRRM to back-up the world of westeros?

      Efi,

      Dung and Egg sound a bit uuuh, I’m not delving into details.

      Young Dragon,

      Is his comments not sarcastic? At least that’s how I perceive them. But sarcasm most of the time doesn’t translate that great when typing it.

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    33. kevin1989,

      He/she has been saying the same thing for a while now. He/she is one of the ones who believe Martin actually finished Winds years ago and that HBO stopped him from releasing it. I remember disagreeing with him/her every time he/she said it, and he/she never said he/she was joking or being sarcastic.

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    34. Efi,

      I think Mr Martin said that there wouldn’t be a Dunk and Egg TV series at least until he’d finished writing the rest of the books he envisages in the D&E universe. Still he said there wouldn’t be any Robert’s Rebellion and there might be now if this Targaryen prequel eventually catches up to the Mad King’s Death. I know book 2 of Fire and Blood hasn’t seen the light of day yet so we don’t know how far it will go with the pre-ASOIAF Targaryen narrative. If “Dung” had been deliberate actually it would have been witty but I take it you don’t in fact dislike the D&A the books.

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    35. And I made a mistake above – I referred to D&A of course it should be D&E.

      I don’t “do” Twitter and Facebook and only upgraded to a “smart” phone a few months ago. Then again I’m told by people who have family and friends living overseas that social media platforms are great for keeping in touch with folk living in distant parts of the world. I think also that they can be useful for finding “side gigs”* for part-time income for people like myself who want to boost their pension etc so maybe I need to sign up some. I’m wary about how safe my data would be though (not that I’m a celebrity or very rich person that has loads of secrets). There have been a couple of successful defamation cases brought about Twitter comments in the UK in the last decade: McAlpine v Bercow [2013] and Monroe v Hopkins [2017] but of course the average man or woman in the street can’t usually afford to bring an expensive legal case. There were items recently on a channel called Triggernometry about a couple of people who had been booted off Twitter because they were deemed transphobic – Posie Parker and I can’t remember the man’s name. It’s a grey area and I don’t know what the man said but I didn’t think Posie Parker was so very terrible and it’s not against the law as far as I know to have an opinion in the UK, though. There are ways of saying things of course. Maybe Twitter are worried they might be sued; I don’t know. Before anybody says anything I’m on the whole prepared to live and let live.

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    36. Wow 2022 is a lot later than I expected. I was hopeful Bloodmoon would air towards the end of this year so I’d guess they won’t film House of the Dragon until towards end of this year then.

      It will be interesting if this negatively impacts viewing figures with a 3 year wait since the “mothership” show has ended.

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    37. Young Dragon,

      Ok than I know that, but sarcasm levels raised with me. Especially that every year a book will come out.
      And as for the HBO forced GRRM to wait to deliver it’s book. It’s possible of course, but I doubt it. And even if it’s true, I don’t care. What I care about is the date that the book is in the store. And I rather think that he is just stuck than that he is holding it off, the last one would be just a smack in the face to his fans.

      Ten Bears:
      Dame of Mercia,

      Facebook is evil.

      If you company force you to use Facebook, you’re company is evil. *In Davos Seaworth voice*

      My reaction to many Facebook posts: “Your fingers are moving, and you’re complaining about something. That’s whinging”

      Jon Snowed,

      I think it’s because His Dark Materials is over then.

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    38. This is actually what I came on to ask. The last I heard they had cancelled the GOT prequel including the children of the forest. I thought it sounded awful and I guess they agreed. SO for those of you reading this (forgive me if someone already asked) that is completely dead, right? THIS is the next sequel?

      As for the producers they were going to do this weird HBO series where they fantasized that slavery still existed. That is dead as well, right? Does this have the same producers?

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    39. Efi:
      Well now they’ll have a dragon story and I hope they’ll tell it well. Mind the trap though; the immorality of absolute power is present in every single page of FaB. You can’t portray heroes when the story is about yielding power.

      That’s my fear as well. I was never Team Targ and hope this show will also showcase other houses that are less interested in subjugating an entire continent. I can only take one power-mad victor at a time!

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    40. LadyGoodman,

      I’d like to know more about House Dayne. Alt Shift X made a pretty great video about it that got me interested in the mysteries surrounding that family:

      What’s up with House Dayne? Why did Arthur Dayne die at the tower of joy? Did Ashara Dayne love Ned Stark, or Brandon? Who is Wylla? What role will Ned Dayne and Darkstar play in the story? Is Dawn the original Lightbringer? Do the Daynes descend from the Great Empire of the Dawn?

      Ten Bears:
      Dame of Mercia,

      Facebook is evil.

      1000000%. And I’m somebody who, if away from my computer/phone/iPad for longer than 15 min, separation anxiety sets in.

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    41. kevin1989,

      You’re absolutely right about the source material. I too think that they might have been displeased with all the backlash season 8 got but of course they’d never admit it openly. But if they connect the call out with the lack material they’re also mistaken; if it is so, then they haven’t learnt anything.
      The “failure” (which it wasn’t, no matter how we see it) was not due to their running out of source material, but their running out of little grey brain cells and sacrificing characters/arcs, narrative, built universe, purpose, to the dragons’ nest.
      For the same reason unless the showrunners put a really good effort to build characters in HoD, to insert some purpose and meaning and hold this all the way through to the end, they’ll have the exact same reaction from the audience.
      The audience of GoT wasn’t in for the dragons, but I think HBO hasn’t figured that out yet.
      And FaB is narrative, so it’s a difficult material and they have to invent dialog and significance. It might sound nice, but it’s more tricky than ASoIaF.

      I too believe that WoW is close to the end now, if not finished. But I think that editing will take an awful lot of time, so perhaps we won’t see it before next fall (and Martin will be in that place in New Zealand where he’d work on ADoS in complete isolation, lol, because he will still have lost the bet).

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    42. Dame of Mercia,

      And Kevin.

      No, I don’t dislike D&E stories, why would I? I actually like Martin’s style; he’s thorough with descriptions and details, he builds environments, not just characters, not just stories.
      I think it has been said that there was no discussion on transferring those stories to the screen yet. Perhaps M. also implied that when they’d be done they’d discuss it (because I remember he was interested). I think his initial program included also the Hedge Knight, but he seems to have pushed it back for some reason.
      As far as I understand he’s made ASoIaF his priority (understandably).

      “Dung” was certainly my wits playing tricks on me rather than “witty” per se. I was probably remembering this, about a medieval king: he was “defiled with dung and unspeakable filth and his hands are stained with blood and his tongue is promiscuous and his mind is rotten”.

      You can see how easy it might be to… eh, get lost in traslation when one is not native English! 😁

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    43. There’s an article out in which Bloys explains what went wrong with “The Long Night” prequel: https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/naomi-watts-set-star-got-174105108.html

      He basically said in the most vague terms possible that ““In development, in pilots, sometimes things come together, sometimes they don’t”.

      Not much of an explanation.

      He also went on to say that part of the problem was that there is no original source or book to work from. I found that pretty interesting.

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    44. Efi,

      Thanks! I wasn’t trying to be irritating it’s just that I’m having trouble following what is going on. There was actually a mini series with Rutger Hauer where Hitler lived and all Jewish people died in the Holocaust. I think this is where their very bad idea about a slavery mini series came from.

      Anyway I wouldn’t have watched it. I want GOT!!! Though the one where it was children of the forest didn’t sound very good. I’ve missed GOT since last spring and I’m eager for something along those lines. Though if they wait too long people will lose interest and move on to the next new thing. The key is the actors (as well as the writing and the characters).

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    45. Mr Derp:
      There’s an article out in which Bloys explains what went wrong with “The Long Night” prequel: https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/naomi-watts-set-star-got-174105108.html

      He basically said in the most vague terms possible that ““In development, in pilots, sometimes things come together, sometimes they don’t”.

      Not much of an explanation.

      He also went on to say that part of the problem was that there is no original source or book to work from.I found that pretty interesting.

      No original source material is going to be the problem with all of these. Martin needs to write some and forget his attempts at finishing up GOT for the time being – there’s nothing he can do to improve the mess they made of the final season. That ship has sailed. Write a made for TV script for them.

        Quote  Reply

    46. Mr Derp,

      Right. Why make a tone-deaf TV show premised on a hypothetical scenario that would only serve to further inflame the rhetoric of unresolved present-day racial problems?

      Why not make a TV show based on a hypothetical future scenario in which society has gotten past racism, sexism, income inequality, militarism, and exploitation? You know, a show that envisions what the world would be like if people collectively focused on the pursuit of peace, the betterment of humankind, and respect for all species?

      Oh right. That was done already. Star Trek TNG.

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    47. anon,

      Perhaps I’m the one who was irritating (I apologize for that).
      Since I am not native English, and therefore not from the US or Britain, I don’t think I can speak about Confederates, but my experience (due to age rather than sth else) tells me that subjects like that are dangerous not just because of their content, but because people do not want or do not care to discuss them, and if they do, they’d be blamed for racism (or whatever is involved) even if the discussion is meant to showcase how easy it is to subjugate other people, or to follow orders, or to live within a system without ever questioning it, or how easy it is for individuals to live, accept and even enjoy their life on either side of the story (i.e. being a slave or a “slaver”, supporting Hitler and his methods or accepting him). If shown well, a series like this could contain some very important messages for all of us, but it would attract too much criticism anyway, no matter how succesful or not it would have been.
      So on the whole I think they did well not to put that in motion. It is a very difficult concept and people are not becoming more tolerant.
      Just think, if abolishing slavery was so easy, it would have been done many centuries ago, not in the end of the 19th century. This alone shows how human mentalities evolve slowly, very slowly. Concepts that we have today did not exist before Enlightenment, e.g. children’s rights, or women’s rights (they don’t exist in some countries nowadays either). Martin has been accused for both these things, but if he didn’t show how certain social categories of people were being used and abused, it just wouldn’t have been accurate. (some has been taken to the extreme though, I agree).

      I agree that I’d like a medieval show springled with some magic. It would be nice. Perhaps HoD will be good.

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    48. Adrianacandle,

      I’ve never been on Facebook and never will. It was bad enough Facebook was selling users’ personal data without telling them, and allowing propaganda micro-targeting racketeers to use Facebook’s platforms and algorithms to disseminate garbage. Some people rely on Facebook for “news” but they’re just as likely to be reading nonsense cooked up by troll farms.

      I certainly wouldn’t trust this guy to safeguard my privacy, or to give two sh*ts about the reliability of the “news” on Facebook.

      Here’s Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg, being questioned by AOC.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuIhb-xbW9I

      —-

        Quote  Reply

    49. Mr Derp,

      ”IMO, the only thing that can make a racist no longer racist is experience, meeting people that are different, and finding out through experience that people of other ethnicities are just as human as anyone else.”

      Well said.

        Quote  Reply

    50. Ten Bears,

      Yes, exactly. And there were also questions of copyright ownership — who owns your stuff? You or Facebook? Which is also a big reason I left Instagram after having had an account since 2009.

      And Facebook, it ended up being too much. MySpace/LiveJournal/DeviantArt were all things when I was in high school and I found even those overwhelming at times but Facebook was just too much, especially when it came to breaches of privacy. Plus, your employers, your friends, your classmates, your co-workers, your family, your parents, your professors, grad school supervisors — all on Facebook. I learned stuff I didn’t want to know about some of these people (especially professors). And you couldn’t even control the choice to show your Last Active status because even if you turned on the “invisible” (hah) option, it would still tell your FB friends when you were last active.

      FB-free-life has been nice. And the knowledge that people can’t tag me in stupid photos that’ll appear under my name if people Google me.

      Sorry for the off-topic rant 😉

        Quote  Reply

    51. Efi,

      I think the backstory of Fire and Blood has a lot of interesting things to show, I hope they delve into the “Maester conspiracy” & “Dragonhatching and riding”, with the last I mean why are some able to and others not. I think there’s a big chance the theory is right that the Maesters and the Faith don’t really like emperors who control the populous (including them) with dragons. Instead of themselves as the once controlling the populous with their knowledge or faith.

      I don’t expect much dragon action, yes they will be at the background. But I suspect that we will get more politics than we got in GoT (especially the end).

        Quote  Reply

    52. Efi,

      Don’t forget that he only wants to give us a tv story with a finished book. Dunk and Egg is only at the beginning of the story. He doesn’t want another show to outpace him.

      The thing is with Fire and Blood, that’s it’s not really a novel as in, you move into the mind of the characters like asoiaf and D+E. Instead it’s a Maester writing the whole thing how he recollect the events (as if we should really trust what’s on the page, but that’s another thing, there’s a theory about that). That means he could much easier put things on screen, it doesn’t have thoughts only “facts”. So when F+B part 1 book is almost translated (which I read online that even with that book alone they can make 4 or 5 seasons which I suspect Martin will opt this time again that should happen, and I think this time he will have the writer listen to him. That means he has 4 years to write the book after 2022.

        Quote  Reply

    53. kevin1989: The thing is with Fire and Blood, that’s it’s not really a novel as in, you move into the mind of the characters like asoiaf and D+E. Instead it’s a Maester writing the whole thing how he recollect the events (as if we should really trust what’s on the page, but that’s another thing, there’s a theory about that). That means he could much easier put things on screen, it doesn’t have thoughts only “facts”. So when F+B part 1 book is almost translated (which I read online that even with that book alone they can make 4 or 5 seasons which I suspect Martin will opt this time again that should happen, and I think this time he will have the writer listen to him. That means he has 4 years to write the book after 2022.

      Yes, I think it’s a maester recording what’s been documented about historical events and sometimes opining his own thoughts (ie. doubts, speculations) about these events.

      But for anyone who’s interested, The Grand Maester Conspiracy Theory 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    54. “but fans rightly pointed out that it was a really really terrible idea”

      “Fans” of what? Who were they? How many were there? What did they say?

      This is the problem when one tries to pass off editorializing as ‘reporting’ with generalization and hyperbole as the main points.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Efi: (and Martin will be in that place in New Zealand where he’d work on ADoS in complete isolation, lol, because he will still have lost the bet).

      “That place in New Zealand” is White Island, where a few weeks ago there was a volcanic eruption which killed 20 people and seriously injured many more.
      George’s little joke doesn’t seem very funny now.

        Quote  Reply

    56. It’s just madness if anyone genuinely believes HBO forced GRRM to delay publication of Winds. If I recall correctly HBO and D&D both wanted Winds published before Season 6 so they didn’t spoil things – D&D and GRRM are both on record for this. GRRM met with his publishers in the Autumn before and was optimistic the book could be finished by end of the year – this was reported by Joanna Robinson and other media outlets. Then we go silence until GRRM issued an update on his NotaBlog that despite his best efforts he could not finish and that S6 will air and that there will be spoilers. That was four years ago now.

      I mean how can George hope to conclude a book in a matter of months then four years later it’s still not done. It’s clear he’s no longer focused on it.

        Quote  Reply

    57. So what if anything does anyone know about the plot of the dead pilot we will never see? What do you know about the pilot of the one we might see in two years? I’m still waiting for the terrible pilot for GOT to show up somewhere – the one we didn’t get to see. And I’d love to see the pilot of the unaired “Children of the forest”. Were there ever any snatches of that? We got snatches of GOT episodes before they aired all the time. I’m surprised nothing was leaked. No photos even?

        Quote  Reply

    58. Ten Bears,

      I can see reshooting it but I was surprised they pulled the plug. I wonder if it will ever air – like maybe after they have this series (which is supposed to air in 2022).

        Quote  Reply

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