HBO wants more than seven seasons of Game of Thrones; NEW inside information on Season 5

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In an exclusive interview with Entertainment Weekly, Game of Thrones showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss, along HBO programming president Michael Lombardo, discussed the circumstances surrounding the inevitable end of HBO’s flagship show.

With the show about to begin its fifth season, character storylines are beginning to combine and condense, and plot threads will soon gear up to enter their final phase. With this in mind, the manner of the show’s conclusion will undoubtedly be a point of contention among various parties.

THE MAJORITY OF THIS POST IS SPOILER FREE, EXCEPT FOR THE LAST PARAGRAPH.

Benioff and Weiss have gone on the record numerous times in saying that they are aiming for a solid seven seasons. HBO has augmented this objective by signing on a number of cast members for a seventh season well ahead of time. Following the current format, this would place the finale of the show midway through 2017. On the prospect of the show’s impending conclusion, Lombardo had the following to say:

This is the hard part of what we do. We started this journey with David and Dan. It’s their vision. Would I love the show to go 10 years as both a fan and a network executive? Absolutely.

So, from HBO’s perspective as a business and provider of quality entertainment, they’d obviously love for the show to continue as long as possible. However, the executives clearly harbour the wisdom to respect the whims of the showrunners in deciding upon the ultimate end nature of the show, as evidenced by Lombardo’s following statements:

If [David and Dan] weren’t comfortable going beyond seven seasons, I trust them implicitly and trust that’s the right decision—as horrifying as that is to me. What I’m not going to do is have a show continue past where the creators believe where they feel they’ve finished with the story.

Conversely, the prospect of a feature length movie or two to finish out the series has consistently been raised by George R. R. Martin. While Benioff and Weiss would not comment on the matter to EW, HBO executives are openly not fond of the idea. They feel that it has the potential to be perceived a snub to loyal subscribers and fans who have supported the show this far. Lombardo opens up:

Certainly there have been conversations where it’s been said, “Wouldn’t it be cool to do that?” But when you start a series with our subscribers, the promise is that for your HBO fee that we’re going to take you to the end of this. I feel that on some level [a movie would be] changing the rules: Now you have to pay $16 to see how your show ends.

At this point, the most likely outcome on all fronts looks to be that of an AMC-esque split seventh season. This would involve HBO ordering more than the usual run of ten episodes for the final season – airing one block one year and a second block the next.

According to Benioff and Weiss, their number one priority is providing the strongest possible ending for the show, and from what Lombardo’s comments lead us to believe, the final decision on the manner of that ending rests firmly with the two showrunners.

We want to go out on our absolute highest note. We don’t want people to finally see the end and say, “Thank god that’s over.” We know basically how many hours are left in this story. We don’t want to add 10 hours to that. It’s about finding that sweet spot so it works for us and for HBO and, most of all, it works for the audience.

– David Benioff & Dan Weiss

SEASON 5 SPOILERS BELOW.

Reports are coming in on EW’s special Game of Thrones issue. Some items of note so far:

  • Lady Stoneheart does not appear in Season 5.
  • Rory McCann does not appear in Season 5, but the producers won’t confirm whether The Hound is dead or not.
  • There is some sexual tension between Jon and Melisandre, as Mel attempts to seduce Jon.
  • “Dorne” appears in the opening credits, rather than “Sunspear”.
  • Winterfell gets a makeover in the opening credits.
  • There is a character portrait of Theon with well-groomed hair and fancy clothes resembling those worn by Yohn Royce and Vance Corbray in Season 4.
  • An unnamed cast member is interviewed after just filming their death scene, after “several years” of involvement with the show. This character has not yet died in the books. The actor was surprised upon learning of the character’s death and limited screen time, as he/she has read the books and was expecting to have more material than usual to film this year.

More on this when we get our own hands on it.

373 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. I’m distraught because

      Ian McElhinney fits the bill perfectly for the death scene, which means the rumors and speculation are true. Selmy had a big part in ADWD, and McElhinney

      is one of the few cast members who has really read all the books. This sucks.

        Quote  Reply

    2. Sue the Fury,

      I’m afraid you may be right. I hope that’s not the case but… it seems to be the character who fits the most. 🙁

      I didn’t spot Theon in Vale clothing by the way. Must have missed it.

        Quote  Reply

    3. Revelations. Basically the Hound will return eventually. Sansa is LS in essence. Interesting note about Theon in Vale clothing? We now know for sure who will cross paths in WF. Finally, I am intrigued about the death, Loras??

        Quote  Reply

    4. Bronn is another option though, I am not sure if he read the books however. Outside of that I do expect Barristan to die at the very beginning of twow, it’s 100% certain that that is going to happen in my opinion

        Quote  Reply

    5. Interesting!

      I don’t see how D&D could do a split season on their current schedule, but stranger things have happened..

      Hmm, established characters dies in Season 5, but is still alive in the books…

      Brienne? She had a journey in the books so maybe she expected more screen time?

      Tormund? If Hardhome rumors are true he could have a hero’s death…

        Quote  Reply

    6. davy,

      “He/she has read the books and was expecting to have more material than usual to film this year” is the key, though.

      Bronn’s story is more of an Easter Egg in AFFC,

      so I don’t think it’s him. Barristan was my first thought as well, he seems to fit perfectly. And with

      Jorah back and Tyrion new on the scene

      D&D might have thought her inner circle was getting too big.

        Quote  Reply

    7. Shaz:
      Revelations. Basically the Hound will return eventually. Sansa is LS in essence. Interesting note about Theon in Vale clothing? We now know for sure who will cross paths in WF. Finally, I am intrigued about the death, Loras??

      I didn’t see anything in the article that pointed to Sansa being “LS in essence”. There’s only the tidbit about her relationship with LF being a “journey which takes a dark turn this year” (which begs the question, what’s new about that to make it a “turn”? It’s not like it was light and wholesome to begin with). That could mean a lot of things.

      What does “LS in essence” mean, anyway? Killing a bunch of Freys and Lannisters and their allies? Being a monstrous, tragic wreck obsessed with revenge and little else?

        Quote  Reply

    8. Luka Nieto,

      Also I’m not inclined to take Hibberd’s LSH info entirely at his word without him citing a new interview or to the think that the Ironborn plot not being in s5 doesn’t mean that aspects of it won’t show up later.

        Quote  Reply

    9. Dolorous Ned,

      If the Sons of the Harpy kill Barristan, D&D better make sure he kills a whole lot of them and goes out like a champ. The actor did say he had a fantastic fight scene at last…

        Quote  Reply

    10. My immediate thought was Loras, seeing how in book 4 he has a few interactions with Jaime and they’re pretty much MIA in the books anyway.

      But the more I think about it the more I’m thinking Lancel. They’ve been around for ‘several’ seasons and their story definitely expands in book 4 so you’d think they’d feature a lot more. Not sure storywise why they’d have to die early though.. Perhaps Cersei has him killed in an attempt to shut him up?
      Hmmm, intriguing

        Quote  Reply

    11. That bit about the map saying “Dorne”, rather than “Sunspear”, struck me as odd when I was reading the issue. Kind of a weird choice.

      On a side note, just so you all know, the issue has actual pictures from the opening credits showing Dorne. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    12. I was thinking it could be Brienne as the character that dies in the show but not yet in ASOIAF. Gwendolyn Christie also read the books and she had a ton of action in AFFC.

        Quote  Reply

    13. Huh I’m not sure how to do spoilers so I’m just replacing my original post with one asking how to do spoilers.. Haven’t posted on here since the switch to WiC 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    14. Doesn’t Mel seducing Jon definitely mean he has king’s blood? RUN JON RUN!!!! I think this will begin our slow reveal to ar plus ell equals jay.

      Reek in fancy clothes could mean anything. A court hearing in Winterfell, a greeting, his master’s wedding? Sansa’s dark turn is towards Winterfell.

      Doesn’t Barristan do fuck-all in the books? He’s a charismatic character, but other than throw out some exposition, he doesn’t do a ton, especially since the TV show doesn’t rely on a POV system. A heroic death could be the best thing they can do with Barristan.

        Quote  Reply

    15. The more time they get to tell the story the better.

      On the character death;

      If Selmy dies I will be incredibly pissed off. His character has nowhere near been done justice (the amount of events he’s been a key part of in the history of Westeros and the fact he is probably the most accompllished knight who’s ever lived) and it would leave Dany surrounded by complete non-event characters where they should have Barristan playing his key role in the Siege of Mereen and giving Dany more information about her father and brother to shape her as a ruler. Hopefully it isn’t him. I think Bronn may be a cnadidate but he’s not really critical in the books which makes it less surprising. Loras could be another candidate as he potentially has more of a part to play depending on what actually happened at Dragonstone. Other candidates could be Sam ( If Oldtown isn’t happening), Yara or Theon (yet more Greyjoy neglect) , Brienne or Pod (who knows what they’re going to do) , Tormund or Mance, Jorah or a real wild card , Jaime ( think I’d stop watching the show).

      Why on earth is Theon dressing as a Vale person. The worry is rising again!

        Quote  Reply

    16. Sue the Fury,

      I’m afraid I think you’re right. I’ve spent the last 20 minutes breaking it down cast member by cast member and he’s the strongest contender.
      *Cries*

        Quote  Reply

    17. Wha? My attempt to edit away my original post has turned into a brand new post and now I can’t edit either of them..
      Apologies to anyone who read the above, please ignore me just embarrassing myself on the internet
      *WotW noob*

        Quote  Reply

    18. Greenjones:
      Where is this picture of Theon from? I’ve seen the scans of the article and saw it nowhere?

      The character portraits under “Where We Left Them..”

        Quote  Reply

    19. I’ve been saying this since pretty much season 3… that they would order more episodes for the final season and split it. And it would be easy to do since they could finish shooting the second half after they finish the first half. It would essentially be season 8… but called season 7. Because that’s how executives get around paying the talent extra for a new contract.

        Quote  Reply

    20. I’m not through the books yet…but I feel as though they royally effed up with Barriston he could have been the most bad ass old guy ever…..and the stuff that guy has heard and witnessed in his life….damn shame…I wonder if he plans to cut through D &D like cake!

        Quote  Reply

    21. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      i’m pretty sure Bronn will die in Dorne.. maybe both him and Barry will say goodbye this season. I honestly don’t give a f**k about Barristan, but i will cry buckets for Bronn. About Barry, i just hope he’ll have ONE good action scene before dying.. but i won’t bet on that

        Quote  Reply

    22. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Even if they kill him, he’s still has a season left. For example, the leaked script summary confirmed he’d reveal everything about the Mad King to the Queen, as he did in the books.

        Quote  Reply

    23. Any information on whether the show will cover material beyond ADWD? I wish they would finally clear this out, would be a bummer if the show were to spoil the books 🙁

        Quote  Reply

    24. Alex of Dorne:
      My immediate thought was Loras, seeing how in book 4 he has a few interactions with Jaime and they’re pretty much MIA in the books anyway.

      But the more I think about it the more I’m thinking Lancel. They’ve been around for ‘several’ seasons and their story definitely expands in book 4 so you’d think they’d feature a lot more. Not sure storywise why they’d have to die early though.. Perhaps Cersei has him killed in an attempt to shut him up?
      Hmmm, intriguing

      Loras’ interactions with Jaime are mostly in ASOS. Jaime leaves early in AFFC, and if anything, going by set reports and pictures, Loras’ role in season 5 is larger than in AFFC.

        Quote  Reply

    25. DomCosmos:
      Any information on whether the show will cover material beyond ADWD? I wish they would finally clear this out, would be a bummer ifthe show were to spoil the books

      There is no “if”. Only “when”.

      By next season, for certain.

        Quote  Reply

    26. My updated list of people I think will/could die in Season 5 (I may be forgetting some):

      Jon (sort of)
      Janos Slynt
      Maester Aemon
      Meryn Trant
      Balon Greyjoy
      Pycelle
      Kevan Lannister
      Tommen Baratheon
      Tormund Giantsbane
      Grey Worm
      Barristan Selmy

      Seeing as there now seem to be about 5 other people who are likely to die, who are alive in the books, I am a bit less convinced Bronn will die. Of course, it’s still possible he (and maybe a SS (most likely Obara)) will die.

        Quote  Reply

    27. Sue the Fury,
      I’m not that convinced it’s him, but even if it is…

      ..If he dies in the beginning of TWOW, which is likely, and the show skips a major battle in Meereen, why not kill him this season?

      Also, I’m sure we’ll get to see a lot more of him this season because of that, though not as much as the actor had hoped. Besides, the majority of

      Barristan’s scenes in ADWD happen after Daznak, talking to Quentyn (cut) and plotting to conquer from characters with difficult names (also cut or given to Jorah/Tyrion).

        Quote  Reply

    28. Luka Nieto,

      Would still blow. He’s been criminally neglected in the show. Would also leave us with the dullfest which is sleazeball Daario and MissandGrey for Dany to interact with. Jorah and Tyrion could plug the gap but I’d rather them off the other three and keep Selmy who actually has a purpose/character.

        Quote  Reply

    29. TheTouchOfFrost:
      The more time they get to tell the story the better.

      On the character death;

      Why on earth is Theon dressing as a Vale person. The worry is rising again!

      I hear you on

      Selmy’s death

      The show has missed opportunity after opportunity to do justice to the character. Such a shame really, because they got of to a good start

      with the scene where he resigned from the KG. I really liked McElheny’s take on him, but he never really got anything to do. He should have fought the Meerenese champion at the very least.

      I do think the character we’re talking about is on the choppingblock. They just tick off every box. This is very sad news imo. So far I thought season five was looking pretty good, but this is really worrying.

        Quote  Reply

    30. John M W: There is no “if”. Only “when”.

      Well, I’m still hopeful that TWOW will be published by year’s end, and that D&D will not cover anything beyond ADWD before season 6, or make up the story. But any official statement would be nice.

        Quote  Reply

    31. Annara Snow,

      I just meant she’s on a collision course with characters LS encountered in the books, and is subsequently taking bits of her arc albeit in totally different circumstances for totally different reasons. And that she might be enacting some a plan of revenge against Stark enemies, the first Stark to do so after the RW. Of course she’s not going to be some crazy, vengeful hack, but that doesn’t mean she won’t avenge them in her own way. This is all conjecture, nothing I post about Sansa is sacred, and I will refrain from vague speculation hereto forth, so forgive me Annara, Queen of the Sansa brigade.

        Quote  Reply

    32. The problem with keeping this show going past 7 or 8 seasons = Daenerys storyline

      Im sorry but the moment they introduced that character they Painted themselves into a corner

      people are not going to wait around 10 years just to see Dany finally get to Westors and D&D are smart enough to know that.

      Better to quit while your on top than to become what Dexter turned into lol

        Quote  Reply

    33. It seems to me that the most likely contenders for

      the death are Loras, Roose, Barristan, Grey Worm, Asha, and possibly, possibly Team Dragonstone (aside from the Greyjoy plot they have the least screentime among major subplots). I don’t know which of these actors has read the books, but they all seem to fit the bill of long-standing characters who haven’t had tons of screen time till now. That’s the clue that I think edges out people like Jorah, Brienne, Theon, or Bronn, who have had considerable screen time. They were expecting more than usual to do, and didn’t get it, so it has to be someone who hasn’t yet had lots to do.

      Which doesn’t mean some of those people might not die, just that I don’t think this interview refers to them. Bronn dying in Dorne is something I very much suspect.

      I hope I did that spoiler tag thing right…

        Quote  Reply

    34. TheTouchOfFrost:
      Luka Nieto,

      Would still blow. He’s been criminally neglected in the show. Would also leave us with the dullfest which is sleazeball Daario and MissandGrey for Dany to interact with. Jorah and Tyrion could plug the gap but I’d rather them off the other three and keep Selmy who actually has a purpose/character.

      I suspect

      Missandei’s death at the very least will have some very strong reprecutions in tWoW (snapping Dany into full on Fire and Blood mode and burning Meereen like her ancestor Nymeria burned her ships). I’m also firmly in the camp of Daario = betrayal for gold, so he to has an important role to play still

      Do agree about them in the show though.

        Quote  Reply

    35. DomCosmos: Well, I’m still hopeful that TWOW will be published by year’s end, and that D&D will not cover anything beyond ADWD, or make up the story. But any official statement would be nice.

      That still leaves the seventh book. The series is wrapping up in 2017. They’re not waiting for George. They know the ending, character paths, etc. The show will pass the books.

        Quote  Reply

    36. I think it has to be Ser Loras. It really looks like some type of trial by the faith in the trailer where it shows him lunging at Littlefinger’s “proprietor.” My guess is that he will be killed by the faith somewhere between episodes 6 and 8 this season.

        Quote  Reply

    37. Veltigar,

      The thing that annoys me the most is Daario ( a character I strongly dislike and that is incredibly poorly constructed in both book and TV) will most likely get his parts/duties. This after he’s already seemingly put paid to Victarion ( against popular opinion but another character I enjoyed in the books) appearing in the show. When he dies I hope it’s f*cking painful!

        Quote  Reply

    38. Excited for the “8th season”.

      Not excited at the prospect of ol’ whitebeard leaving so soon. I’m gonna remain hopeful and look to Grey Worm or Loras for the untimely death. Really wanna get some Barriston/Tyrion scenes eventually……….. sigh. Fuck!

      NOT STOKED

        Quote  Reply

    39. Sue the Fury:
      I’m distraught because
      …..
      is one of the few cast members who has really read all the books. This sucks.

      But there must be…“Sound the attack!”

      Say it ain’t so!!!

        Quote  Reply

    40. Barristan hardly did anything before the end of ADWD in Essos anyway. He was basically the exposition guy, and occasionally he hit people with a stick. This is the time to start culling the supporting cast.

        Quote  Reply

    41. Sue the Fury,

      Really?

      I’ve always thought that the surprised actor was Ian Beattie. Is this the same person who hadn’t read their script and was surprised by their death from earlier? Because if it is the same person, Ian definitely fits the bill. In fact, he even says in the ‘A Day in the Life’ special that his role is mostly posing and looking mean. Hence not looking at scripts. Or maybe I’m just in denial about Selmy! (I hope not though)

        Quote  Reply

    42. Greenjones:
      asdf,

      Because Ciarin Hinds hasn’t read the books and wasn’t in the show from the beginning.

      Well technically the quote says “a number of years” and not since the beginning. And I remember reading an interview where Mance’s actor talks about he knows his arc from DwD. That said i think you’ve swayed me thinking barristan is more likely.

        Quote  Reply

    43. asdf,

      because that actor has read the books and that was part of the description.

      There could be multiple unexpected deaths this year. Hibberd was just describing one person.

        Quote  Reply

    44. Lion of Night,

      Why would he expect his character to have more screen time based on the books? It’s the same thing that rules out Loras. Or Stannis, whose actor hasn’t read the books, I think.

        Quote  Reply

    45. Just as a general comment, this week has been amazing. Barely 5 days ago people (including me) were lamenting the seeming lack of and/or quality of S5 promo material. Now we’ve been whipped into a frenzy. It’s awesome!

        Quote  Reply

    46. It is

      Barristan

      , folks. Read the description. It is an actor who has read the books,been a part of the cast for several seasons, and whose character has a bigger role in either AFFC or ADWD, which the actor was looking forward to portraying. We know for a fact that the actor who plays

      Barristan

      has read the books. He becomes a POV character in ADWD and has an increased role. No other character fits that bill.

      I’ve edited this to concede that

      Mance

      could be a possibility as well.

        Quote  Reply

    47. Has John Bradley read the books? If so, I think he is the most likely candidate. The showrunners said that they killed off Grenn and Pip cause they didn’t think they could film such a big battle and then have none of the Night’s Watch characters you cared about die. Since they are filming the battle at Hardhome this year they may need their sacrificial lamb and Sam would be the one that would hit people the hardest and be easiest to write around.

        Quote  Reply

    48. Looking at the scenes in the trailer,

      it does seem like you guys might end up being right. Barristan is conspicuously absent at Daznak’s Pit.

      While I can see this being dramatically a good choice

      (it leaves Dany without either of her advisors, placing her in more danger than ever before),

      I hate the thought of losing

      Barristan. Ian’s been so great in the role, and I wanted him to get some meatier material.

        Quote  Reply

    49. Well it’s either Barristan or Samwell.

      I think we can strongly predict that it’s Barristan. He is my number one prediction for a death in TWOW, as Samwell still has things to do.

        Quote  Reply

    50. Why can’t they just

      flat out confirm or deny LSH has been cut from the show altogether

      . That was my most anticipated scene for years and they passed it over for 2 really lame season-ending scenes. Like, stop teasing/torturing the people who really want to see

      LSH

      on screen, I’m just getting a little sick of this.

        Quote  Reply

    51. Sam has been a semi-main character almost from the start. He was a POV from the 3rd book onward. Barristan only became a POV character in the 5th book, which the show reached in season 5. It is Barristan or Mance.

        Quote  Reply

    52. Dutch maester,

      http://emilia-clarke.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=15454&fullsize=1

      Dorne on the map this season. Might be more logical, since Dorne has both the Water Gardens and Sunspear, so Dorne might be more clear.

      Also of note is the detail in the area north of Dorne that is part of the Stormlands. Usually that much detail is reserved for areas we actually visit.

      The EW article is, on itself quite revealing in terms of Varys his motives. No mention of Illyrio at all btw.

        Quote  Reply

    53. Urban Bran,

      Actually, they kinda did for s5. They just do not want to burn the bridge, leaving open the vague possibility to introduce LS in later seasons if necessary, but it is very unlikely as I reported a long time ago.

        Quote  Reply

    54. This has been one shitty day.

      First, Sir Terry Pratchett dies and now it looks like Ser Barristen is following him!

      Feel as though I should take the time to pay tribute to Pratchett properly as he is probably my favourite author of all time. Great writer. Great human being. Will be sadly missed. Anyone who enjoys fantasy and/or parody and satire and whom hasn’t already should really give his books a go.

      “DON’T THINK OF IT AS DYING, said Death. JUST THINK OF IT AS LEAVING EARLY TO AVOID THE RUSH.”
      ― Terry Pratchett

        Quote  Reply

    55. Greenjones,

      Sue the Fury,

      It’s possible he’s read the books since his debut in Season 3, when he hadn’t. And also, it didn’t say “since season 1”: just “several years” of involvement. Several is anything more than one, which would qualify.

        Quote  Reply

    56. Kelsey:

      I’m praying for

      Loras to bite it as well

      The actor playing him is a really nice guy, but I just prefer

      Barristan by a mile. In showverse even more than that

        Quote  Reply

    57. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      Dutch maester,

      Uh-oh, Patchface won’t be pleased by the snake coiled around the spear.

      LOL, I have not noticed that! Dang you have good eyes! I am scaling back my criticism about the snakes, Afeastfordances and Hodor’s Bastard made me see some sense, I still don’t like it much, but I can live with it (yes, even with leather armor in the desert).

        Quote  Reply

    58. There is a shot in the new trailer where the Sons of the Harpy look as though they are cornering someone. One tilts his head to the side as though he’s enjoying whatever they are doing…. I think it’s going to be that moment for old Barristan 🙁

        Quote  Reply

    59. I have always said that 7 seasons wouldn’t be possible. If the last two books are as big and dense as they are assumed to be, then they’ll have to make at least 2 seasons out of each like they did for the third one. I could see it lasting 9/10 seasons, but who knows?

        Quote  Reply

    60. If Barristan dies, they might have cut the Battle of Fire as well. It doesn’t look like Victarion and the Iron Fleet will show up, Selmys death in S5 could be the last nail in the coffin.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Rachel,

      The entire article can be seen on emilia-clarke.net

      After reading the exact wording of the character death, I am now unfortunately quite sure it is indeed

      Barristan

      :

      Things like “that doesn’t tally”, “I find myself being quite emotional about it” and “they’re very nice people” all sound like things I could hear

      Ian McElhinney

      say.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Bard,

      What battle is left to show? The Iron Fleet is cut.

      Tyrion and Jorah are with Dany at the end of season 5. It’s basically Dany vs the Sons Of The Harpy. She will be in Westeros at some point during season 6.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Tori Targaryen,

      For such a legend to go like that at the hands of a bunch of faceless nobodies is not a fitting death (honestly can’t see a master swordsman going down that easily to a bunch of untrained street punks either) . He should go down fighting or in battle as befits such a man. If they want to stoke up an emotional response then kill off Grey Worm. He’d be more likely to have a confrontation with them anyway whereas Selmy ( as was made clear last season) always stays by Dany’s side. Eugh just when I think I’ve come to terms with the changes they’re making something like this pops up!

        Quote  Reply

    64. I just think it’s a dumb move to change Sunspear into Dorne, It’s like “North” instead of “Winterfell” it doesn’t make any sense, Dorne is a vast region just like the other kingdoms. But then again they always try to dumb down things a bit for the regular show viewer, who most of the times doesn’t know what the fuck is going on, doesn’t even know the names of the houses neither the characters, only watch it for bewbs and violence. Maybe I’m making a big deal out of this but as a big fan like most you guys here, I’m not cool with this

        Quote  Reply

    65. fd3888,

      Just what the first trailer revealed:

      That Varys supports Dany and wants Tyrion to do the same. That is, what Illyrio revealed in ‘Tyrion I’ of ADWD (though in the book canon, he wasn’t telling the whole truth —the Griffs and all.)

        Quote  Reply

    66. Veltigar,

      I also think show!Loras is a goner, if for nothing but that scene between him and Sansa in S3. In the books, however, I am rooting for him to return in a surprising fashion.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Shaz:
      Annara Snow,

      I just meant she’s on a collision course with characters LS encountered in the books, and is subsequently taking bits of her arc albeit in totally different circumstances for totally different reasons. And that she might be enacting some a plan of revenge against Stark enemies, the first Stark to do so after the RW. Of course she’s not going to be some crazy, vengeful hack, but that doesn’t mean she won’t avenge them in her own way.

      This is all conjecture, nothing I post about Sansa is sacred, and I will refrain from vague speculation hereto forth, so forgive me Annara, Queen of the Sansa brigade.

      Not really? LS has been

      killing Freys in the Riverlands

      and Sansa is not likely to encounter

      Jaime

      any time soon, while it doesn’t look like her encounter with

      Brienne

      is nearly as dramatic or constitutes a big conflict. If anything, going by the characters she’s likely to end up in collision with, considering where she seems to be going, she’d be

      Lord Manderly sans (sic) pies/Mance and the spearwives

      in essence.

      LOL Thanks for that lofty title, but I’m sure there are many others who would dispute it and claim if for themselves, though they’re probably not on WOTW much.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Bard,

      Yes she will… where do you get the idea that she won’t?

      If you’re thinking about the last shot in the second trailer, she’s not wearing the same dress as she does at Daznak’s Pit (both are white, but one is scaly and the other is smooth.) Drogon doesn’t leave her atop the Pyramid instead of taking her to the Dothraki sea. That shot has to be from earlier in the season; Drogon comes and visits her Mother, Dany approaches, but he refuses and goes away again.

      As for the fleet, there’s a reason the Meereenese navy has exactly the same number of ships as Victarion’s Iron Fleet —because it’s probably gonna be used for the same purpose. And where does anyone get the idea that Meereen’s conflict will only be internal? Yunkai’s renewed belligerence was set up last season, and the leaked script summary confirms this thread will be followed through —the Good Masters intend to attack Meereen.

      I don’t know why people think D&D will simply get rid of the Battle of Fire. I find the theory baffling. Yes, yeees, only two seasons left, I know. But we don’t know Dany’s arc in TWOW; probably she doesn’t come back to Westeros until the end, and when she does it will make an impact. They can’t simply advance it by a whole season without having to also delete everyone else’s arc pre-Dany’s arrival. It also assumes Season 6 and 7 will not bother with adapting Dany’s (and those in Meereen and Essos) TWOW story at all and jump directly into ADOS, which makes no sense. Just because we don’t know what’s coming up doesn’t mean that nothing is coming up.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Barry it seems

      will liveat least until the late midseason since he’s seen in this shot walking with Dany in her wedding dress. The only other scenes we know of her wearing this dress are 1) when she’s with Hizzy watching a helmeted Jorah fighting at a smaller fighting pit and 2) at Daznak’s. So Barry will alive at least until around ep. 507.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Balon01,

      Yeah but correct me if I’m wrong, I can only recall hearing Sunspear once in 4 seasons, but Dorne they’ve said like a hundred times, now putting “Dorne” writen by the model of the city of Sunspear seems to me that dumbing it down it’s what they’re doing

        Quote  Reply

    71. Jofrey’s Cunt,

      It depends, if the entire region is labeled ‘Dorne’, and they simply don’t name any of the cities on the map, then it should be okay. But if ‘Dorne’ only appears where the town of Sunspear is, then it won’t make sense.

        Quote  Reply

    72. Dutch maester,

      Not really true. The text at Castle Black reads “The Wall” instead of “Castle Black.” Always felt weird to me, no less than this.

      Also, maybe the text says “Dorne” because the show itself won’t amalgamate the Water Gardens and Sunspear, but the intro sequence does (because they are so close), yet calling it “Sunspear” wouldn’t technically be correct, so they’re calling it “Dorne.”

      Or it may be an error they’ll fix. Or maybe they won’t. We’ll see!

        Quote  Reply

    73. Having read the article, I have to conclude that it is the same one that everyone fears. That is too bad, he really needed more to do. I understand the need to trim the cast down… but even within that storyline I can think of several other side characters that could go and I’d care less.

        Quote  Reply

    74. Balon01: They talked about Sunspear in Season 4. I don’t understand whats the problem. Sunspear is show-canon.

      I’m thinking it’s mostly it’s because “Dorne” is already how it’s thought of popularly. Just think about how message boards, fan sites, etc have discussed it. Everyone says “I’m really looking forward to seeing Braavos, Volantis, and Dorne,” no one says “I’m looking forward to Braavos, Volantis, Sunspear, and Yronwood”

        Quote  Reply

    75. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I’ll be ok if that’s the case, like Luka meantioned also castle black is labled as “The wall” which can be considered as also a vast region with 19 castles in which the main story is in castle black, and they meantion the name everytime, so if they do the same with Dorne it might work I guess, but I’ll be pissed of if they don’t talk about the different areas within

        Quote  Reply

    76. DAMN!!

      Barristan 🙁 that´s why he isn´t in any of Daznek´s Pit photos, I thought he was changing roles with Daario as a hostage. I enjoyed so much the Kingbreaker chapters

        Quote  Reply

    77. Sorry for Ian if true. I admit I’m attached to the character first and foremost because of his outstanding performance, even though he wasn’t given much to do. He’s one of those actors who IS the character. I appreciate how enthusiastic he is about his role, the show, and the books. He’s always glad to talk and engage with the fans. (Also one of the reasons I love Liam Cunningham!) Ian really seems to enjoy this gig. I hope they give him a worthy send-off and a few memorable moments to boot. Most of all, I hope it isn’t him!

      As for the number of seasons, I agree, a split season seems likely. I’m actually a bit surprised HBO is willing to give the show all the time in the world. I know that many fans, me included, speculated here and on other fan sites about how the growing costs and realities of actor contracts and renegotiations make such a commitment on the part of HBO unrealistic. It seems the show and tie-ins are so INCREDIBLY over-the-top lucrative that they are ready, willing, and able to throw whatever it takes at it.

      Now I wonder if there’s anything to those stories of supposed D&D burnout that have been circulating from time to time. I never paid them any attention, but with this new info… HBO wants more seasons, D&D themselves wanted 8 (even 9 at one point) seasons. Why not take advantage of this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity?

      It’s official now. I want my 8 seasons. With the eighth being split into two, of course. Make it happen, D&D!

        Quote  Reply

    78. I think Barry will die by being poisoned at least I hope thats how he dies. Show him as unstoppable in a fight scene and then have him be assassinated because he will clearly be a problem when the harpies are trying to get to Dany during the pit.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Big Mac,

      I’m pretty sure it’s already known that

      a sand snake (don’t know which, probably Obara)

      dies and if I had to guess at the hands of who, I’d say Bronn.

        Quote  Reply

    80. Benjen,

      I’m afraid speculation with absolutely no evidence does not equal “it’s already known.” I’m not saying it’s not happening, but it’s a guess, not something that’s known in any way.

        Quote  Reply

    81. wow.
      more info from entertainment weekly.
      budget is huge.
      the cheapest episodes cost 8mill.
      Episodes with daznaks and hardhome cost nearly 15mill.
      ….

        Quote  Reply

    82. Jofrey’s Cunt:
      Balon01,

      Yeah but correct me if I’m wrong, I can only recall hearing Sunspear once in 4 seasons, but Dorne they’ve said like a hundred times, now putting “Dorne” writen by the model of the city of Sunspear seems to me that dumbing it down it’s what they’re doing

      At least they said it once you nerd.

      Omg….. They ruined it…. I don’t know the location now….. They don’t say it. -You

      I want my Batman movies to specifically say they are in “Gotham” otherwise I’m going to be pissed

        Quote  Reply

    83. The Dragon Demands,

      What do you mean by “I knew it”? Didn’t you believe the show would go for more than 7 seasons? I’m confused… Have you read the interview? The headline is misleading: the HBO exec says that, whatever his wishes, D&D have the power to decide in the end; and D&D reaffirm that they don’t want to stretch beyond what they’re planning ( “We know basically how many hours are left in this story. We don’t want to add 10 hours to that”), which is 7 seasons.

        Quote  Reply

    84. I’m loving the “mutual interest” between Jon and Mel. I totally ship them. It’s shadow baby making time!

        Quote  Reply

    85. Reading the article now… more and more references to Red Wedding level shockers. What could they be? [spolier]FtW[/spoiler] is all I can think of.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Whoops I messed up my spoiler and can’t edit for some reason. Lucky i made it super vague and impossible to figure out lol

        Quote  Reply

    87. King Stannis,

      First of all, your comment seems pretty childish what’s your age? 12? trying to offend me by calling me a nerd and trying to mimic me you must be. So to you, my only answer is grow up and next time you don’t share the same opinion either discuss it politely like every other good person on this website or shut the fuck up it’s simple 😉

        Quote  Reply

    88. According to Hibbered the Hardhome battle is also, “the most complicated, visual-effects-heavy sequence the show has yet put to film — 17 days spent shooting one sequence.”

        Quote  Reply

    89. Ooo quote from article says that Theon gets a bit of relief when Ramsay finds something new to torture.

      feels like there def is going to be a wedding of some sort, no i don’t think sansa is farya, i think winterfell worker is

        Quote  Reply

    90. Concerning the character death, my is vote is Tormund, Ian McElhinney has been in the show from the start, but for Kristofer Hivju, this is his 3rd season.
      Having Ser Barristan as head of guard and adviser is a really big bonus to legitimacy, especially when it concerns approval from those in Westeros.
      If this were a board game, he would give Dany a 10 pt bonus for council adviser and winning supporters in Westeros, Jorah would give her a 4 pt bonus for adviser and 2 pt bonus for supporters in Westeros. Daario would give no bonus for anything to do with Westeros. Furthermore, Ser Barristan has all the past knowledge (first hand) concerning her father and the events of his reign.

        Quote  Reply

    91. HBO has a new image on its home page of Margaery and her handmaidens at what I presume is Tywin’s funeral. Not so spectacular but still newsworthy.

        Quote  Reply

    92. Dutch maester,

      This one is going to hurt. A lot. “Game of Thrones” is known for its shocking twists and the sudden, horrific deaths of beloved characters – the fifth season, which kicks off on April 12, will be no exception. “I hope when it comes out it’s a real shock and a heartbreak,” a production source told The News. “I really hope it is. It’s like Joffrey’s death or the Red Wedding. It’s a scene that we want to have that kind of impact.”

      I think this particular quote is about Jon Snow. For the watch!

        Quote  Reply

    93. rex,

      At whatever point that Dany goes to Westeros this argument is a moot point though. They can spend as much time as they want when she actually gets there, it stops becoming a big annoyance.

      The thing I’d be more worried about is the White Walkers. 4 seasons and they have hardly shown themselves to be threats, only showing up when it is convenient. A problem the book has as well.

        Quote  Reply

    94. This one is going to hurt. A lot. “Game ofThrones” is known for its shocking twistsand the sudden, horrific deaths of beloved characters – the fifth season, which kicks off on April 12, will be no exception. “I hope when it comes out it’sa real shock and a heartbreak,” a production source told The News. “I really hope it is. It’s like Joffrey’s death or the Red Wedding. It’s a scene that wewant to have that kind of impact.” Executive producer David Benioff, says that the sudden loss of great characters is part of the show’s appeal. ” In this world everyone can die – and they tend to, especially the ones you like most,” he tells the Daily News. “When you know that the characters are always in danger, it just makes you that much more attached to them because you’re constantly living in fear for them,” he says. That chance of sudden horror in books by George R.R. Martin was a big reason Benioff and his producing partner D.B. Weiss wanted to turn”Game of Thrones” into an HBO series. ” I remember starting to read this book and getting to the scene where Bran is pushed out the window – I was jolted bythat,” Benioff says. “I remember lookingat the page, not quite believing what I had just read because, that doesn’t happen: little kids don’t get pushed out of windows. And then getting to the end of the book where Ned Stark gets decapitated! George has this ability to shock you again and again, even when you know these are the rules: even the good guys die.”

        Quote  Reply

    95. Al Swearengen,

      I really don’t get your hate towards D&D. Without them GoT most likely wouldn’t exist at all. Unless you hate the whole show, I’m sure you can find something in it to appreciate them for. – And I will not even go into the whole “do it better” thing, but please turn down the bitterness a bit…

        Quote  Reply

    96. Prom000:
      If it is Barristan Selmy, why even have him in the show?

      He’s there to teach Dany to be a good queen and help her avoid becoming like her father. He’s there to be Ser Grandpa.

        Quote  Reply

    97. I see 70-73 hours at the most to finish (with the final 7th season running 12-13 eps). That’s it. You can already see how weary D&D are and they are cannonballing their way to the finish line by omitting much of the last two books.

        Quote  Reply

    98. OK everyone THINKS it’s

      Barry

      . Even I think it’s

      Barry

      .. but I don’t want to. SO… any chance it’s

      Grey Worm? Brienne? I mean… Barry seems to makes it to season 7 right? Maybe Brienne only makes it to Sansa, and gets killed still loyal to Jaime?

      TheTouchOfFrost,
      My first car was named Binky 🙁 Sadness for Terry…

        Quote  Reply

    99. minty,

      Oh, I very much doubt that. He’ll be back. Like Terminator. I hope.

      If it’s not that character and that event, I don’t know what could equal the Red Wedding in terms of shocking, deadly events.

        Quote  Reply

    100. Luka Nieto,

      Or it’s really Hasta la vista baby 🙁

      (Ok we learned is spanish classes that only the terminator is allowed do say that sentence)

      I have no idea what shocking deaths could be in store next season, albeit Joffrey was a hated character with a shocking death so it could also be some character who would not be dearly missed, but I doubt it.

        Quote  Reply

    101. Luka Nieto,

      Be a nice switch if it was actually Areo Hotah who dies. Everyone is expecting him to lop someones head off but he gets ended instead! Not as if anyone is going to miss the camera with an axe anyway and I don’t see him playing a role going forward.

        Quote  Reply

    102. Sue the Fury:
      I’m distraught because

      is one of the few cast members who has really read all the books. This sucks.

      I would be totally gutted. I am far from a book purist but this would upset me. He is probably my favourite book character – certainly my favourite ‘secondary’ character.

      I called it a while ago too – it is just so obvious that they haven’t known what to do with him since season 2. Hmph.

        Quote  Reply

    103. All those that haven’t read the books and still frequent these threads, stand up and shout “I’m a dick!”

      See? None. Spoiler codes are moot.

      Selmy is the perfect choice. In all honesty, he has been a minor character that has garnished very little emotional investment by the audience. Since most of his back story and honorable deeds have been largely ignored (how he fought with Rhaegar till the very end and, more notably, sided with Ned when the Council voted to kill Dany as two examples), and that his dismissal from the Kings Guard was not as impactful, I honestly do not see too many non book readers being that upset over it.

      Or maybe I’m just horny.

        Quote  Reply

    104. I think it is important, regarding the Lady Stoneheart note you made here, to edit it to clarify that Entertainment Weekly was only repeating the reports they heard back in Season 3 that she would not appear — this isn’t new information they’re confirming or not.

        Quote  Reply

    105. Say…..I think it’s a given that any of these characters could go or will go. More likely 5-6 main or regular supporting cast will be gloriously killed off. So this description could apply to a few of them, and one doesn’t make the other safe.

      I will only be shocked by the manner of how a character is killed off, not who, since I pretty much expect any of them to go at any time. Still hurts!

        Quote  Reply

    106. John M W,

      Watch the interviews. I am not referring to the recent one where D&D appear hung over. Benioff has stated how much the show takes up their time away from their families. They see the light ahead and its time to activate the hyperdrive. Punch it, Chewie.

        Quote  Reply

    107. Rygar,

      That is a perfectly normal thing to say when you’re working on something like this. Similar things were said by Peter Jackson during the making of LotR. Doesn’t mean that D&D are shortchanging their own show.

      They’re making it as long as they feel it should be. Not because they’re “looking to bail out”.

        Quote  Reply

    108. The headline on this post does a disservice to your readers because the EW article does not support the proposition that HBO wants more than seven seasons. It’s just one executive talking about his wishes. It’s doubly irresponsible to make it look D&D are somehow the only thing keeping the show from going to eight seasons.

        Quote  Reply

    109. I’m more inclined to believe sam than selmy as a replacement for the infamous letter. and it could be that the sons of the harpy are surrounding grey worm and not selmy. either way, i drove to cvs, walgreens and pathmark and i’m pretty sure the issue hasn’t hit retail yet. in regards to getting more than 7 seasons; that would be great, but difficult without having source material to draw from. i’m pretty sure books 6 and 7 are both gonna be like book 3 in size and depth, i.e. almost needing to be split into 2 seasons each

        Quote  Reply

    110. I’m not sure what the issue is with Dorne being part of the opening credits, as opposed to Sunspear. It sounds like there will be a few locations in Dorne shown this season, at least Sunspear, the Water Gardens, and if I remember correctly, at least one other

      maybe Planky Town?

      It actually makes sense to me, then, they’d just use Dorne.

        Quote  Reply

    111. Sue the Fury:
      asdf,

      because that actor has read the books and that was part of the description.

      There could be multiple unexpected deaths this year. Hibberd was just describing one person.

      the exact phrasing was just that he knew what happens to his character in the books, not that he had actually read the books…he could have just looked it up on wikipedia.

        Quote  Reply

    112. Biscotti Knight:
      The headline on this post does a disservice to your readers because the EW article does not support the proposition that HBO wants more than seven seasons. It’s just one executive talking about his wishes. It’s doubly irresponsible to make it look D&D are somehow the only thing keeping the show from going to eight seasons.

      The executive happens to be, um, the President of Programming, so I don’t see how it’s “misleading,” as he’s not just any executive. I also don’t see how you interpret what was written about D&D as making it look like somehow they’re the only thing keeping the show from going to 8 seasons. Maybe you’re just interpreting it how you want to so you can make accusation of irresponsibility, or maybe your reading comprehension needs some work.

        Quote  Reply

    113. John M W,

      That’s also my point. They have said 7 and all signs are pointing to 7 considering how much has been and will be condensed and how far they have already passed/met up with the books at this point in the series.

      Also LoTR was only a 3-4 year (I believe) investment for the actors and crew. GoT, including when they first drafted and shot the pilot will be almost ten consecutive years when all is done.

        Quote  Reply

    114. Isn’t

      Grey Worm

      a great contender too?

      He’s still alive in the books and do we even know that he hasn’t read them? I have a strong feeling he’s going to die this season…

        Quote  Reply

    115. Rygar:
      I see 70-73 hours at the most to finish (with the final 7th season running 12-13 eps).That’s it. You can already see how weary D&D are and they are cannonballing their way to the finish line by omitting much of the last two books.

      What else can they do if Mr. Too-Fat-To-Finish-A-Book have not finished the last two books .
      Sure they know certain future plots but they gonna do the best they can from what they have.

      I don’t know about you but if it was me In-charge of the show and at this point I have no more books to guide, I would write Stannis conquering the north, all the way to Dorne and straight across to Dany’s sexy ass whose thicker than a bowl of oatmeal.

        Quote  Reply

    116. I’m just going to keep my fingers crossed it is

      Loras

      who bites it. I believe he’s read the books, and we’ve already heard about him throwing the script across the room.

        Quote  Reply

    117. TheTouchOfFrost:
      Tori Targaryen,

      For such a legend to go like that at the hands of a bunch of faceless nobodies is not a fitting death (honestly can’t see a master swordsman going down that easily to a bunch of untrained street punks either) . He should go down fighting or in battle as befits such a man. If they want to stoke up an emotional response then kill off Grey Worm. He’d be more likely to have a confrontation with them anyway whereas Selmy ( as was made clear last season) always stays by Dany’s side. Eugh just when I think I’ve come to terms with the changes they’re making something like this pops up!

      Like you have never seen Robb Stark and Catelyn get killed by a bunch of fuck heads like the Freys.

      Remind me again how Sandor “died” in the books.

      Point is, in the world of ASOIAF anything is possible when it comes to death. You can die taking a shit or falling off a bridge for fuck sakes.

        Quote  Reply

    118. Oh boy! I guess you have to be either Ironborn or Viking to work out which actor thought he’d have more time on the show.

      Watch out for Syrio in Braavos! He’ll be seen as a cheerleader for Arya.
      Did you know Flash makes a surprise appearance in KL & in Meereen during S05? Watch or you’ll miss him.
      Watch carefully when there are scenes at The Wall. Arrow is one of the lead archers in Stannis’ ranks.
      Beware of Shadows! They have a habit of vanishing in the dead of night.

      Explanation of Reek’s spruce-up – He’s back to Theon for a wedding. Stand for shock – He’s the one to wed Ramsey. “Ha! You never saw that coming!”, I hear a pair of showrunners shout!
      Who is the mystery bride? As D&D have shifted a few things around, jumbled them up and arrived at fresh arcs for so many….. Try an anagram to discover the identity of Ramsey’s bride. Where would you start to find a word?
      What do you mean, you need a clue? Anagram of THEON produces NOT HE, therefore he’s not the bride, unless you thought D&D would go with…. In Ramsey’s words (IIRC), when he’s eating after severing Theon’s toy from him. ‘No. No. You thought….? Pork Sausage.”
      I have given a clue to a possible candidate…. or two!

      The reason why Ironborn aren’t seen elsewhere is…. they arrive (a few anyway) for Theon’s wedding…. To Myranda! That is Ramsey exercising Prima Nocta in the trailer.
      If that’s one of D&D’s plot twists, I shall eat a Snickers bar and suffer the consequences (as Howard did on BIG BANG).

        Quote  Reply

    119. Should be Sunspear, not Dorne! For 4 seasons, the excellent diorama notes key castles or cities that host or are near the action. Not general kingdoms, Captain Obvious! Wtf? Can’t be a final version.

      Can’t wait to see Volantis! I wonder if there will be a Hardhome element in the diorama as well?

      Can’t wait for Sansa to stop by Greywater Watch on her way to WF!! 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    120. King Stannis,

      What else can they do? They’ll probably end it pretty close to how GRRM told them he is going to end it. Not exactly the same, but close enough for government work. Likely the three principal characters will have the exact same fate as they will in the books, and most of the secondary PoV characters will get something close-ish. They know the end of the story, but they can take as much creative license as they please.

      It’ll be interesting for book readers, as the last two books will have had the most important plot points already spoiled by the finished television series.

        Quote  Reply

    121. King Stannis,

      True, but the others at least had their moments and were used as intended. Selmy has been sorely neglected and to go out to a bunch of harpy chumps would be the final insult to his character. All I can hope for is that he gets treated better if they ever do a Robert’s Rebellion prequel.

        Quote  Reply

    122. Quiddity:
      rex,

      At whatever point that Dany goes to Westeros this argument is a moot point though. They can spend as much time as they want when she actually gets there, it stops becoming a big annoyance.

      The thing I’d be more worried about is the White Walkers. 4 seasons and they have hardly shown themselves to be threats, only showing up when it is convenient. A problem the book has as well.

      But that’s the best part of the series. It’s a mystery, it is suspenful, it’s a scary thought of the unknown. I’ll admit, I would love to see the white walkers more but I think is fine how it is set up. You want to know more about them but you won’t until the shit actually starts hitting the fan.

      I love the idea of so much happening in Westeros and Essos that it distracts us to the point that we the audience forget that the Others/White Walkers are just lurking in woods up north coming straight down to our favorite characters.

        Quote  Reply

    123. TheTouchOfFrost:
      King Stannis,

      True, but the others at least had their moments and were used as intended. Selmy has been sorely neglected and to go out to a bunch of harpy chumps would be the final insult to his character.All I can hope for is that he gets treated better if they ever do a Robert’s Rebellion prequel.

      I understand. I would love Barry to have a great season coming up and perhaps give him more scenes. I also would love, (If) he is a for sure a goner to go all out living up to his name as one of the greatest knights. But as mentioned, anything can happen in this world.

        Quote  Reply

    124. For everyone that wants to live in denial with me (it’s a fun place)…. Let’s say that EITHER

      Selmy has a fantastic season, and dies in a glorious way,

      and really – what more can we ask

      OR

      He gets poisoned and “dies” but not really.

      I think I’d be pretty happy if Selmy gets poisoned – and fights a way for Dany and the others to escape – and it’s not pathetic that Harpy rabble kills him, because he’s poisoned

      at the same time, and only he could successfully fight like that.

        Quote  Reply

    125. Sue the Fury,

      I’m guessing you’re probably right, but to break this down:

      “An unnamed cast member is interviewed after just filming their death scene, after “several years” of involvement with the show. This character has not yet died in the books. The actor was surprised upon learning of the character’s death and limited screen time, as he/she has read the books and was expecting to have more material than usual to film this year.”

      “An unnamed cast member is interviewed after just filming their death scene, after “several years” of involvement with the show.

      Would have to be anyone involved since Season 1 or 2, more than likely, until now. Season 3 a bit more of a stretch, though possible. That leaves: The 3 Lannister siblings, the 5 surviving Stark children, Osha, the Small Council 3 (Varys, LF and GM Pycelle), Bronn, Barristan, Marge and Loras, Dany, Jorah, the Dragonstone Trio, Tommen…ish, Sam, Gilly, Janos, Brienne, Podrick, Maester Aemon, Dolorous Edd, Roose, Theon, Meryn Fucking Trant, Hodor, and possibly Tormund or Mance

      This character has not yet died in the books.

      Ok, so that definitively removes Maester Aemon, Pycelle, and Janos

      The actor was surprised upon learning of the character’s death and limited screen time,

      Obviously you can eliminate Hodor, Bran, Osha and Rickon, given the former two won’t be showing up at all this year, and I believe Natalia Tena said she’s not around this year either. The “limited screen time” line removes the other 3 surviving Stark children, Dany, the Lannister 3, and more than likely Jorah from that discussion as well. I’d venture a guess to say that probably knocks out Melisandre and Davos as well, and there’s no way they’re going to kill off Theon. Gilly and Dolorous Edd are too small as parts to really bring into the mix. Margaery has a lot to do this year.

      …as he/she has read the books and was expecting to have more material than usual to film this year

      Now we’re really slicing it down to just a few. Could it be Brienne? Methinks not. She’s become an important primary character to the story and likely part of the endgame for Jaime. Podrick? Possibly. I don’t know if Daniel Portman has read the books, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility, though it’s not as if he has a ton of material remaining. Bronn? He’s probably on borrowed time, but he also virtually disappears from the books in his farewell to Tyrion in ASoS; his appearance in AFFC is an offscreen one. It doesn’t fit. Varys and LF don’t actually have a lot of material in ADWD – but the trailer seems to suggest they’ll have quite a bit of time in the show, so it’s not them. And I think there’s an eventual heroic part for Sam to play, and they won’t jettison that either. No, this points more definitively at either Loras Tyrell or Barristan Selmy. Both are secondary characters that read as “tweeners,” people who could have played a bigger role in the show but instead have ended up being a bit diminished. And if anything, it does lean to Ser Barristan – Loras’s role in AFFC/ADWD is small-ish, though he has a bit more to do. Barristan, though, has a heavy part to play in the Battle of Meereen, which is going to lose a big part of its dynamic without the Iron Fleet in the mix.

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    126. Jofrey’s Cunt:
      I just think it’s a dumb move to change Sunspear into Dorne, It’s like “North” instead of “Winterfell” it doesn’t make any sense, Dorne is a vast region just like the other kingdoms. But then again they always try to dumb down things a bit for the regular show viewer, who most of the times doesn’t know what the fuck is going on, doesn’t even know the names of the houses neither the characters, only watch it for bewbs and violence. Maybe I’m making a big deal out of this but as a big fan like most you guys here, I’m not cool with this

      I also agree. What is up with this? What’s wrong with Sunspear?

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    127. TheTouchOfFrost:
      …to go out to a bunch of harpy chumps would be the final insult to his character.

      If this does in fact happen on the show, are you willing to entertain the possibility that this is something that happens early in TWOW?

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    128. Although, curiously, Dorne is the only region (not city or island) of Westeros that has an actual name instead of a title (“The North”, “The Riverlands”, “The Reach”, etc.)

      Strange that I never noticed that before.

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    129. Neverunderstooddamphairhateeasilyoneofthemostcomplexcharactersinbookshischapterssomeofthemostatmosphericandwellwritten says:

      Anybody Else feel like this could end up being the most beloved season yet, espicially among bookreaders. Theres just been so much anciety regarding adapting Dance/Feast, initially because of their looong, detailed, some times anticlimactic storylines. And later, ironically, when they started cutting and merging, people flipped again. But the they seem to be doing it, taking the more cinematic stuff and elaborating on that, I just feel like it will blow a lot of book readers minds. Focusing ob the Sons of the harpy in mereen, the Sparrows in KL, expanding hardhome. And going all In on the revenge-angle in Dorne could in my opinion make that storyline much more momental and captivating. It was always a revenge story, right from the start with Oberyn. Flip the focus from Arianne to SS and instead of court intrique and erotic drama (which Was great in the books) we get full on revenge-subplot. Arianne in the show would be too much like Margerey. SS will be like nothing we’ve seen. Anyway does anyone feel that Way too? That’s it’s gonna suprise People because of the low espectations and because it’s two brilliant but extremely expositiobal and long books mashed down to 10 hour sig télévision. It Will be explosive i think!

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    130. John M W,

      Nice observation, I never really thought of that either. It does help explain why having “Dorne” on the credits map doesn’t feel at all like anything even remotely resembling a problem.

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    131. TheTouchOfFrost: Selmy has been sorely neglected and to go out to a bunch of harpy chumps would be the final insult to his character.

      That is not true, at least not if we contrast Selmy’s importance in books and show. Selmy is really an incidental character in the boks up until Dragons. He has no real bearing on the story until he reveals Jorah as a traitor, and his only other bearing on the plot comes from saving Daeny’s life. His character never has much bearing on these things: as it’s his deeds and words, Selmy is just a narrative messenger.

      Now, Selmy does step up to a low-level protagonist in Dragons, and he makes his minor (but very redundant) contribution to the story by struggling to be the Loyal Knight rising to the task of being Queens’ Hand. (GRRM did this better with Davos.) However, as that is stuff that has not been adapted yet, one cannot justifiably criticize the show for excluding that anymore than one can justifiably criticize the show (or books) for excluding stuff from Winter or Spring.

      All in all, Selmy would seem to be a good character for a dramatic sendoff. If what we have heard is correct, then Selmy’s second concrete contribution to the story is going to be made this year: but that will develop Daeny’s character, not his. The show has too many protagonists as it is, and Selmy is not a particularly compelling one anyway, so I do not think that it would be a good idea to bump him up to that level.

      There are a handful of other candidates. Loras would seem to be a good one, and it actually would not be

      a huge change from what we read in the books.

      Sam might be another, although I think that he is too useful as a means for developing Jon.

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    132. The most likely candidate was seen in set photos earlier this year (I’m glad we have spoiler tags!):

      Meryn Trant (Ian Beattie) was shown in Braavos, while they were filming Maisie’s Cat of the Canals sequences. I took that to indicate that Ser Meryn is going to meet the same demise as Raff the Sweetling in the “Mercy” TWOW chapter, though if he was spotted by Cat, in a manner like Dareon. I assume that we’ll see Arya as Mercy late in the season, and that will be very satisfying, but an awkward experience for Maisie to portray a 15 year old (only 11 or 12 in the books) seducing someone in their late 40s, early 50s. I think Beattie just turned 50.

      “Where did you get those boots?”

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    133. Lady Wolfsbane,

      Theoretically, any of them could die, but neither fits the bill for this actor. Grey Worm has a tiny role in the book, and Brienne has always had a big role and wouldn’t be waiting for this season to get more screentime, and the phrases used sound nothing like her.

      Anyway, losing

      Barristan

      early would be sad, for me even more so for the actor not to get to do the great book material – but I’m more or less OK with it (in the “oh, too bad… but I’m not that surprised”) but if anyone even mentions the possibility of Brienne or Samwell being killed off, my reaction is closer to: “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! 😮 Unacceptable!”

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    134. Neverunderstooddamphairhateeasilyoneofthemostcomplexcharactersinbookshischapterssomeofthemostatmosphericandwellwritten,

      Ive always thought that season 5 could be the best seasons because I think AFFC and ADWD are the best books they are simply poorly organized. The books introduce some fascinating things such as The Faith Militant, some “walking”, some new players with I hope to god are not entirely cut just remade slightly, and arya’s story was awesome I never liked her story before AFFC. In my mind I can imagine a perfect season that even improves on certain aspects of the story namely the Nights watch scenes sound awesome.

      Wimsey,

      In the books selmy really made me feel that dany was safe. He was so badass that I felt like wow with him on her side Dany cant lose. However, in the show he hasnt even fought one person. I dont really get the greatest fighter of all time vibe from him. More like old guy with a gut and no armor who stabbed a bug once. I need to see him have the most incredible fight scene this season or else his character was wasted.

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    135. Neverunderstooddamphairhateeasilyoneofthemostcomplexcharactersinbookshischapterssomeofthemostatmosphericandwellwritten says:

      Crabber’s Son,

      Completely agree. Dany, Jon and Tyrion were deep arcs on rereads and in the show i think, strippes down, Will be those characters best arcs yet. Not to mention aryas amazing story that cast members seem to agree Will be magnificent on screen. And the complete fuckup of Kings landing With the terrifying new antagonists there. Theon, wichever Way they do that, Will probably be great too, so much potential. This season Will be sick!

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    136. One thing I hate and I am sure most viewers of tv or movies hate is a rush to get to the climatic moment, disregarding continuity, development, time frames, poor execution, lack of coherence, vanishing subplots, etc. Considering what has taken place and what will by the end of season 5, you cannot end GoT satisfyingly in 2 years.
      By the end of season 5, Dany will still be in Essos, same as Tyrion, Jaime in Dorne, Cersei in KL, Arya in Braavos, Sansa is in WF, while Melannis is finally up North, Brienne?

      HBO would be smart to point this out, and after all what’s one more year or two.
      Does anybody remember the Kingdom of Heaven fiasco of poor decision making?
      Theatrical cut sucked because even though they filmed a coherent and well structure story, they chose to edit so it rushed to climax, foregoing character development, creating vanishing sub plots, creating confusing wtf happened comments, all to get it close to a 2 hour running time. Then if you saw the 3 hr 20 min cut, it was like watching a totally different film, cohesive story telling, structure, flow and especially character development.

      HBO and D&D should take a breath and see the big picture. Finish with a 3.5 star 7 season show vs. a 5 star 8/9 season show. Many would do the former being it costs less, takes up less time (KoH 1.0) rather than whats right, produce the best possible work of art (KoH 2.0). Why do I say 7 seasons = 3.5? Because that’s what a rush to finish will create, the flow of seasons 1 to 5 has been nearly flawless, but rushing to finish in 2 seasons with soooo much story left untold, creates dissatisfaction by the audience with the overall finished product.

      HBO controls the money, the tv/film rights to the world of ASoIaF, and in end the final say. I would rather the show continue to 8 or even 9 seasons and be coherent, even without D&D. Rather than have D&D finish in 7, by rushing the story along and giving us unfulfilled art. Therefore HBO should demand to see D&D’s outline for the remaining story and their plan, plus GRRM’s outline on what still is to happen, compare these to what has been completed and decide if the show should go 8 or 9 seasons, and then inform D&D that 8 or 9 will produce a superior product and therefore in the tradition of HBO par excellence, superior product always trumps convenience.

      Concerning a spin-off, HBO needs to begin laying the groundwork for one, because the infrastructure; people, sets, costumes, props, facilities,etc. are in place. It costs a hell of a lot more to place them all in mothballs, have the staff depart for other work, then after years have past, to bring them all back together. Game of Thrones is a now an iconic product, commercial and critical success, a product with a massive audience, media exposure and creative possibilities, HBO would be a fool not to go the Marvel/Disney route and just pump out shows, just make sure like Marvel, the product remains fresh, inventive and exciting.

      I have said my peace, and will not harp anymore on this subject, besides it gives me a headache to point out common sense concerning something.

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    137. Colty:
      Isn’t

      a great contender too?

      No, because he really doesn’t have a big role in the books and there’s no reason why he would expect lots of screentime based on the books.

      To those saying it could be

      Sam

      (ugh) – he had lots of screentime in season 3, and quite a bit in season 4 as well. I decided to look it up in the list of characters with most screentime per seasons that someone made a while ago on Westeros – and

      Sam

      was the character with 8th largest screentime in season 3 (27:17) and 11th in season 4 (25:04). Do you really think he expected more than that in season 5?

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    138. tyjon,

      Your analogy is incorrect. Kingdom of Heaven suffered in its Theatrical Release BECAUSE of studio pressure.

      The lesson to be taken there is to let the director (or, in this case, the showrunners) make the film (or show) that they want to make.

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    139. Maester of Ceremonies:
      The most likely candidate was seen in set photos earlier this year (I’m glad we have spoiler tags!):

      “Where did you get those boots?”

      Yes, this character will die. But he’s not this actor quoted in the article, because his role in the books is miniscule, and he definitely wouldn’t be expecting a bigger one based on the books; his role in season 5 is actually much larger than in AFFC/ADWD.

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    140. Crabber’s Son: Ive always thought that season 5 could be the best seasons because I think AFFC and ADWD are the best books they are simply poorly organized.

      I would phrase it differently. AFFC and ADWD tell GRRM’s most ambitious story to date. However, AFFC in particular is bad book: after all, a book that takes such a cool story and then “organizes” it so poorly is like a hamfisted pianist butchering a Mozart masterpiece: wonderful music, horrible performance. In all honesty, I did not know what the story was supposed to be until I read Dragons: I actually thought that it was a story about people trying and failing to be greater people!

      Crabber’s Son: However, in the show he hasnt even fought one person.

      So? Did Selmy fight anybody in the books up to this point? The only fight of his that I can remember (not counting killing an arthropod, of course) comes towards the end of dragons. If he did, then it obviously was such a small part of Swords that it would have been blowing it out of proportion to include it. At any rate, given that we do not even learn that this is Barristan Selmy accompanying Daeny until the end of Swords, one could make the argument that he’s actually gotten more development up to this point in the show. After all, the development of Arstan didn’t really count as it was a dissemblance.

      And if Selmy made you feel like Daeny was invincible, well, that’s you. One man doesn’t amount to much in these things, and he certainly is much less important than three dragons! Ultimately, Selmy has one crucial role to play in this season’s story:

      letting Daeny know that her father really was insane, and that the rebellion against her family in Westeros was not (as she had thought) without some justification. That in turn is important because it makes Daeny wonder if she really is up for being Queen.

      Really, Selmy just is not the sort of character character that can lend too much to one of Martin’s stories. He’s just not too conflicted about his duties, loyalties, etc., and his only major doubts are of the “am I up for this task?” sort. Now, that is fine for Season 5: after all, that is the story for Season 5. However, enough other characters will be doing this that one more is necessary.

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    141. Neverunderstooddamphairhateeasilyoneofthemostcomplexcharactersinbookshischapterssomeofthemostatmosphericandwellwritten says:

      Generally the fact that so many things changed at the end of season 4, I feel makes a Foundation for a great season. So many things that had been Leader up to for a loooong time. Tyrion is finally out of KL on his own again on adventure, as in his incredibly riveting season 1 arc. Arya finally reaches Bravoos. Cercei finally gets to ‘rule’ with Tywin dead. Jon finally becomes spoiler after having forshadowed that since season 1. Sansa finally starts to play the game. Stannis is finally in a situation where he can actually join the fight again AND we finally See Winterfell again. It’s the season of pay-offs essentially. Not a bad recipe.

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    142. tyjon: Therefore HBO should demand to see D&D’s outline for the remaining story and their plan, plus GRRM’s outline on what still is to happen, compare these to what has been completed and decide if the show should go 8 or 9 seasons, and then inform D&D that 8 or 9 will produce a superior product and therefore in the tradition of HBO par excellence, superior product always trumps convenience

      Wait: why should the HBO execs bother to see B&W’s plan if they are just going to inform them that 8 or 9 seasons will be superior? That seems rather farcical. (Indeed, most book editors would probably look at the two and say: “B&W’s is a hell of a lot more succinct: go with that.)

      At any rate, more is not always better: and in story telling, it often is worse. What fanboys call “breathing,” normal viewers call “wasted time.” The show Lost comes to mind: the network wanted to keep the cash cow milking, so they refused to give the show runners permission to start drawing the show to a close. That resulted in “time killing” episodes as they tried to pace things so that the overall arcs continued enough to keep the audience attentive, but not so much that things really reached “snowball” point.

      It will be the same thing here. After this season, there should be two primary plot issues: Daeny returning to Westeros, and White Walker War II. Both deserve about one season, or perhaps one season and another “padded” season. I know that there are a ton of small “details” that fans want to see filmed: but the general audience has no interest in them. (Indeed, half the fans have no interest in seeing the things that the other half of the fans want to watch!)

      And, of course, there is one other big issue: retaining the actors. Getting Harrington, Clarke, Dinklage, etc., back for an 8th season might be tough: and getting all of them back might be almost impossible. Fundamentally, this is a story about Daeny, Jon, Tyrion, Arya and Sansa. Sure, there are some lesser protagonists, too: but those five are the Big Five right now. The final story is going to climax based on how those characters evolve. Lose those characters, and the story also vanishes.

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    143. That’s bs about what they were saying about making game of thrones films. They’ve already made 2 sex and the city films and are planning an entourage film. And where do they think the game of thrones films will end up six months later; on showtime?

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    144. Dutch maester:
      And then there’s this:

      http://interactive.nydailynews.com/2015/03/game-of-thrones-calendar/index.html

      “This one is going to hurt. A lot. “Game of Thrones” is known for its shocking twists and the sudden, horrific deaths of beloved characters – the fifth season, which kicks off on April 12, will be no exception.
      snip
      ” I remember starting to read this book and getting to the scene where Bran is pushed out the window – I was jolted by that,” Benioff says. “I remember looking at the page, not quite believing what I had just read because, that doesn’t happen: little kids don’t get pushed out of windows. And then getting to the end of the book where Ned Stark gets decapitated! George has this ability to shock you again and again, even when you know these are the rules: even the good guys die.”

      🙁 Benioff talking about little kids and mentioning Bran – I have a bad feeling about Shireen next season. If that happens, it is going to hurt. Very much so. She is a beloved show character. And it would give more meaning to the weird naked Melissandre and Selyse chat last season.

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    145. Josh,

      But both shows had already had proper endings. Those movies were (and are) revisiting the characters, etc., but didn’t serve as “endings” to the original shows.

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    146. Wimsey: letting Daeny know that her father really was insane, and that the rebellion against her family in Westeros was not (as she had thought) without some justification. That in turn is important because it makes Daeny wonder if she really is up for being Queen.

      Well said. Selmy matters, for her character development. Now I’m worried, for that very reason.

        Quote  Reply

    147. Wimsey,

      Nicely stated. If a “Robert’s Rebellion” spinoff ever existed, he’d have a fine role in that. (And contrary to what another poster suggested, he, and every single other character, would be re-cast. There’s no way then-51-year-old Sean Bean, who was playing supposed-to-be-about-36-but-was-aged-up-to-around-45-year-old Eddard Stark, would realistically be able to portray Eddard as 27 or what-have-you.)

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    148. Kay:

      I really don’t want anything happening to shireen. I know GRRM keeps playing around with her character in the books as far as her nightmares but anything happening to her such as a sacrifice will be going too far that I personally think is not needed storywise. Idk, my opinion though.

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    149. If Selmy goes, Dany will be without either of her advisors – which would create a lot of tension for her story. So I can see the appeal of offing him if that ends up being the case.

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    150. BTW folks because of an observation by AFOIAF poster Newstar, I’ve put together these two postimgs to determine whether or not Theon is indeed wearing a Vale outfit or just a Northern-style cloak. Which do you all think it is?

      http://postimg.org/image/5xiszcrwv/
      http://postimg.org/image/abw4rqlyl/

      I think, while it looks quite like a Vale thingmy at first glance, that may actually be more like a mix of Ramsay’s cape and Robb’s RW outfit.

      EDIT: This is the oberservation by Newstar that made me go and make these btw:

      “It’s not a Vale costume. The collar is wrong–the “Vale” collars are a deep “V” shape, his is a straightforward collar like Robb’s tunic at the Red Wedding. Also, the Vale puffy sleeves are more off-shoulder, and are symmetrical. He’s clearly wearing a cloak of some sort, as it sits off-centre (the side on the left shoulder is closer to his neck). He’s likely outside–we know at least one scene was shot in the “weirwood”–prettied up for a wedding, maybe? The cloak is very similar to the one Ramsay is wearing in the “Winterfell welcome” Season 5 still where Roose, Ramsay and Walda are all lined up.”

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    151. don:
      wow.
      more info from entertainment weekly.
      budget is huge.
      the cheapest episodes cost 8mill.
      Episodes with daznaks and hardhome cost nearly 15mill.
      ….

      Where did it say 15mill for Hardhome and Daznaks? You’re making this up.

        Quote  Reply

    152. King Stannis: I really don’t want anything happening to shireen. I know GRRM keeps playing around with her character in the books as far as her nightmares but anything happening to her such as a sacrifice will be going too far that I personally think is not needed storywise. Idk, my opinion though.

      I honestly don’t think anyone wants anything bad happening to Shireen. She’s such a lovely character. I hope you are right and Martin has plans for her to survive the series.

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    153. Maester of Ceremonies: Well said. Selmy matters, for her character development. Now I’m worried, for that very reason.

      I have read that this scene is included. The fact that Daeny is talking about the major houses of Westeros at least tells us that this sort of thing in general will be discussed: one could see this being the general scene where Selmy informs her that the propaganda was not all propaganda. (Selmy had such a round-about way of contradict people that he sounded like a stereotyped Valet from Edwardian England!)

      Heck, if Selmy is dying and just cries out the memory for Daeny to read in a Pensieve, then that will work, too…..

      A Robert’s Rebellion spinoff would worry me for one big reason: it is REALLY tough to pull of a prequel given that it has a plot designed to set up a completely different story rather than to develop it’s own story. Superimposing a story could be tough: and if they fail to do that, then it’s just faux-history. Gaggeth me with mine spooneth….

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    154. Here’s why a Robert’s Rebellion prequel will likely never happen, it reveals too much. I’m not sure George will ever reveal what truly happened with Rhaegar and Lyanna. I think he likes leaving it ambiguous.

      I have no doubt it will be revealed that they are Jon’s parents, but whether Lyanna went willingly with him will be left for the readers to decide.

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    155. Lets just hope its a certain actor who thought he might be getting “siege of dragonstone” scene like the books only to find out he gets more than “gravely injured” in kings landing….throws script acrosd the room

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    156. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Nah, he’s reading comprehension is perfectly fine.

      It is just one executive. He does talk about his personal wishes whether as a fan or executive:

      Would I love the show to go 10 years as both a fan and a network executive? Absolutely.

      And it does look like the WotW author is putting all the responsibility of going to 8 season on D&D from this single executive comments (which is an interpretation in itself as the WotW confirms here, nothing wrong with it since it is stated as such):

      Lombardo’s comments lead us to believe, the final decision on the manner of that ending rests firmly with the two showrunners.

      What is even more funny is the fact that this type of talk was not yet even approached:

      Like amicable spouses who avoid a sensitive area of disagreement, this issue is something HBO and the showrunners haven’t discussed thus far.

      I’m sure it bothered the way it was typed (he does sound pretty uppity, no?! LOL), but the poster you quoted read it perfectly right.

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    157. Can anyone confirm Don’s comments that the daznaks and hardhome episodes cost 15 million each? I dont remember reading that in the EW paper.

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    158. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      OrtMeyer,

      All I read was that each episode cost “at least” $8 million.

      That’s what he said too but he also went on to say Hardhome and Daznak episodes cost close to 15 million each which is more than Watchers or Blackwater. I find it ridiculous that HBO would basically do two expensive episodes like that in S5 but I’d like a confirmation of that since it would be nice if it was true.

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    159. King Stannis,

      People see characters that aren’t really there more often than some think. It gets worse when they’ve had a few too many as well.

      Did you figure out the most likely candidate for this actor being non-too-happy discovering his death on the show? Maybe you haven’t seen another TV show on which said actor appeared…. and also got slain!
      This show had plenty of arrows. Some would say this actor came and went in a flash.
      I’d name the guy but, where’s the fun? How did I begin the previous comment? I laid so many clues…. Do I need to spell it out?
      How about a crossword clue? He’s an island in the world of ice and fire, initially.

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    160. Josh:
      That’s bs about what they were saying about making game of thrones films.They’ve already made 2 sex and the city films and are planning an entourage film.And where do they think the game of thrones films will end up six months later; on showtime?

      Given the quality of the SITC films, probably not the best precedent.

      And both SITC and Entourage are about characters, and are episodic productions. GOT needs you to know something about the plot.

      Not sure how they’d set up a film. The film wouldn’t really work if they can’t assume that people already know about the characters and what they’ve been through. And the film won’t work for casual movie viewers who haven’t invested in the show.

      Either they do a film that doesn’t work for fans, or they do a film that doesn’t work commercially. I can see why HBO and Time-Warner are lukewarm about it.

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    161. Tormund’s Woman,

      Set out the way you did, I see exactly what you’re saying, although I still contend as President of Programming, the one executive does make those decisions for HBO (although, granted, I don’t know the specific job description, so I could be wrong there). As far as the D&D comment, as you pointed out, it is their interpretation, and is presented as such, in other words, it’s not presented as a statement of fact. Thus, my comment about his reading comprehension.
      Mainly, I took issue with his contention the title of the article was “misleading” (The title of the EW article was “HBO Talks GameofThrones Future: More Than 7 Seasons Wanted), and the “doubly irresponsible” bit re: the D&D comment.

      Not that they need me defending them, but I can’t help but get a little defensive when I see a comment like Biscotti Knight’s. This entire staff works their ass off, and they’re very careful how they present things. Are they infallible? No one is, but it just hit me the wrong way to see a comment like that.

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    162. Has anyone seen Vikings? In specific, S03E03 – “Warrior’s Fate”. If you blink, you may miss a very familiar face. If you’re lucky, you may just catch his lines (not many).

      BTW – If you miss the Ironborn plot, this show would be your best option as a substitute – Plus, it’s full of Nordic Mythology, which is superb stuff.

      Also, the Bolton thing of flaying has some roots in Norse folklore, and done in a very specific, ritualistic manner. (That’s in S02 of Vikings.)

        Quote  Reply

    163. btw… i feel like show writers have gotten lazy. like, if a character is not needed or we’ve decided we want to move on … OMG WE HAVE TO KILL HIM ZOMG GAME OF THRONES NO ONE SAFE … instead of like a more eloquent write off. Gendry is literally the only exception.

        Quote  Reply

    164. asdf,

      There is no way to eloquently write off a character like Barristan. If he dies this season, I imagine it will be like Pyp and Grenn dying at the battle of Castle Black. They needed someone from the NW to die that the audience was connected to. It is the same with the Sons Of The Harpy. Nobody the audience really cares about dies in all of that chaos in the books. Call it lazy, I call it smart. GRRM has done the same thing and used similar reasoning. He doesn’t want his readers to feel comfortable or for them to feel like characters they love are safe. In the case of Barristan, if he dies in the battle of Meereen in TWOW, and the show has elected to not do that battle, or scale it back significantly, then why not kill him earlier? If the show went strictly by the books, there would be only one big death,

      and most people believe that character won’t stay dead.

        Quote  Reply

    165. If they go for 8-9 seasons i hope we get an entire season dedicated to Gilly and her babe, they deserve it.
      Also…
      Brienne r.i.p.

      Now we now why Christie went on to star in Star Wars 7 so quickly …
      Also GreyWorm, Barristan, Bron, Arya, SweetRobin, Loras, Dario, Tormund, Stannis :-(….

        Quote  Reply

    166. Ser Dosser:
      If they go for 8-9 seasons i hope we get an entire season dedicated to Gilly and her babe, they deserve it.
      Also…
      Brienne r.i.p.

      Now we now why Christie went on to star in Star Wars 7 so quickly …
      Also GreyWorm, Barristan, Bron, Arya, SweetRobin, Loras, Dario, Tormund, Stannis :-(….

      Peter Dinklage signed on for X-Men Days of Future Past before he filmed S4 of GoT…. so Gwendoline doing Star Wars is a moot point.

        Quote  Reply

    167. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Exactly right. I just hope that if this is the case, that Barristan won’t go down as an old man but as a true badass. They’ll need to get a whole army to ambush him, and he should stay up for a long, long time to fight them off.

      Sad, though, I would have liked seeing Barristan’s coup (one of the best scenes in ADWD). I guess it’s possible that Tyrion/Jorah/Daario/Grey Worm will still get it done, but it just won’t be the same without Barry.

        Quote  Reply

    168. Cant deal with the Death of (SPOILER!!!)

      S.B.

      Would cry. One of my Top 5 Favorites of this Show. Loved his kick-ass Stuff in the Books. Was hoping theyll do this in the Show, too. 🙁 Crying already..

      btw. I hope Meryn trant dies..-.-

      Btw. Someone pls teach me how to use spoilertag..

        Quote  Reply

    169. Neverunderstooddamphairhateeasilyoneofthemostcomplexcharactersinbookshischapterssomeofthemostatmosphericandwellwritten says:

      Doesn’t really fit the bill of the actor whose character apparantly dies, but additionally, I believe Tommen will die in s5 (pure specilation). The cold opener/flashback will set it up. Throughout the season he Will be shown as drawing himself more and more away from cercei, until the point where he actually starts to feel like a promising king. Thats when he gets killed, in my opinion, cerceis paranoia reawakens and the last chapter of Dance becomes that much more powerful. That’s why Myrcella will apparantly be going back to KL. She’s the regent in season 6, until she herself bites it at the end of that. What I believe anyway.

        Quote  Reply

    170. Josh,

      For the Watch. The Ides of Marsh. Daggers in the Dark. Only the Cold. Ghost.

      That jumble of key-phrases should jog your memory. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    171. Connor:

      Insert spoiler here

      Jump to the top, the format for spoiler tags is just above the red & blue buttons in the gray box.

        Quote  Reply

    172. OT: apologies if old news, but for my fellow Sky Atlantic viewers there is a “new and exclusive” 1 hour story-so-far special on monday at 9pm. (Repeated tuesday at 10pm and probably a few times after that.) It has interviews with current and former cast members so was probably filmed at the same time as the 20 greatest moments programme and along the same lines. As you were…

        Quote  Reply

    173. GRRM has responded to the EW article on his blog: http://grrm.livejournal.com/412015.html

      I don’t know. No one knows.

      This is Hollywood, friends. As William Goldman wrote in ADVENTURES IN THE SCREEN TRADE, in Hollywood “nobody knows anything.”

      I do know that David & Dan have stated in interviews that they see the show winding up in seven seasons. People send me emails about that every time I say “I don’t know” in response to the question, as if I were somehow unaware of what D&D have said. I’m not.

      I also know that HBO wants the series to run longer than that. I have known that since the very beginning… well, actually, since the day after the second episode of season one aired, when I had lunch with one of HBO’s top execs, who told me, “We want this to run ten years.” I allowed that ten years sounded fine to me. I continue to hear similar sentiments from HBO every time I have meeting with them, be it in LA or New York.

      He doesn’t sound as delusional as a few times in the past and for once mentions that D&D want seven seasons, but he conveniently ignores the part where Lombardo says HBO will let D&D decide…

        Quote  Reply

    174. Greenjones,

      Clickbait.

      The HBO/D&D comments do reinforce the possibility of an extended and split seventh season, though. That was always my bet (especially since D&D keep comparing the ending to Breakibg Bad).

        Quote  Reply

    175. And please let’s not ignore GRRM’s ultimate conclusion on the subject:

      As we go forward, I expect I will have a voice in all these decisions. But mine will only be one voice among many, and there are all sorts of other factors that can come into play. I will say, I am incredibly fortunate in having partners like HBO, and David Benioff and Dan Weiss. Seven seasons, ten seasons, with or without one or two feature films… in the end, all that matters is that we tell a great story, with a great end.

      But, of course, I’m suuure GRRM hates D&D as much as you do, you… hypothetical book purist straw-man I’m making up in the spot 😛 All kidding aside: sadly, many fans think like this, even around here. Conspiratorially, they suspect a secret tiff between GRRM and D&D, despite all evidence to the contrary. Oh well… Whatever makes them feel better, I suppose. They truly aren’t aware that the author himself is not as much of a purist as they are. I think their head would explode if they did suddenly realize it.

        Quote  Reply

    176. Luka Nieto,

      Yeah I’ll be highly dissapointed if a certain someone isn’t at Daznaks because their character was killed off, am a big fan of said person and they haven’t been given their due in the show despite being hyped up

      May make sense though if they are going to skip battle of Mereen

      As for the alternative, said persons days have been numbered since he entered a certain tent

      Third alternative is a certain Tyrell

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    177. George R.R. Martin updated his Not A Blog and commented on the article (hope the link works). The title could have been “You know nothing, George RR Martin”

      http://grrm.livejournal.com/412015.html

      I know I’m totally biased (because of my own personal love/hate relationship with Martin), but every time I read anything from him, I think he’s throwing shade to D&D.

      On the topic of the surprising death, my bet is on

      Barristan, too. Poor Selmy, but that’s good news for my bear.

        Quote  Reply

    178. Interesting thing Martin wrote on his blog: “I also know that HBO wants the series to run longer than that. I have known that since the very beginning… well, actually, since the day after the second episode of season one aired, when I had lunch with one of HBO’s top execs, who told me, “We want this to run ten years.”

      We always suspected it was HBO that was reining in D&D’s initial 8 or 9 season idea. Seems D&D themselves, for whatever reason, decided to scale back on the number of seasons. As I already said in a previous post, I find it quite strange. If the first three books easily took 4 seasons to cover (admittedly, more like 3.5-3.75), I tend to doubt the remaining two humongous books (which Martin might well expand to three at the rate he’s going) don’t have 3 solid season-worth of material between them without fluffing or fillering it up. Though, some of the character with less to do might have a problem with additional seasons, that’s true. Still, I’d love 8 seasons. Or, if we end up with a split seventh season, I hope it’s not only slightly longer (say 12 or 13), but a significant amount – maybe 16?

        Quote  Reply

    179. Spaniard SheBear,

      Someone already posted that link just above you 😉

      And your response is the sort of conspiratorial suggestion that I was referencing, though it usually comes from book purists, not from those criticizing GRRM. Still, I find it baffling. Have you read what he wrote?

      As we go forward, I expect I will have a voice in all these decisions. But mine will only be one voice among many, and there are all sorts of other factors that can come into play. I will say, I am incredibly fortunate in having partners like HBO, and David Benioff and Dan Weiss. Seven seasons, ten seasons, with or without one or two feature films… in the end, all that matters is that we tell a great story, with a great end.

      Yes, GRRM is totally talking trash about the show and D&D. Come on, people…

      Mr Fixit,

      And thank God for that. I love the show, but quantity does not equal quality. HBO primarily wants money, while D&D’s priority is to tell a well-told story; and, though GRRM also wants to tell a good story, understandably he’s temped to want more seasons so that more details from the book are adapted. But the truth is this: 8 seasons might be possible, in terms of storytelling, but 9 or 10 years would leave most characters with years of filler, or of not appearing much at all. The show would suffer because of it. D&D made the right choice, whether it is 7 seasons, an extended seventh season or even an eighth, at most.

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    180. Mr Fixit:

      We always suspected it was HBO that was reining in D&D’s initial 8 or 9 season idea. Seems D&D themselves, for whatever reason, decided to scale back on the number of seasons.

      quality of the show?

        Quote  Reply

    181. Arya on her way to Braavos through the sea gonna pass small boat with dead Gendry exhausted after rowing so long

      sorry

        Quote  Reply

    182. Annara Snow,

      Sam – I’d be very upset. I fell like he has contributions left to make in the world of Ice and Fire.

      Brienne I like even more, but can justify less. What is her future role ? I can’t see it right now. Other than a Kick-ass Kingsguard to someone?

      Kay,
      Shhhh! Lalala I’m not listening, that bath scene didn’t happen, all it means is that Shireen is Azor Ahai, not a future BBQ item…. Lalalala

        Quote  Reply

    183. Neverunderstooddamphairhateeasilyoneofthemostcomplexcharactersinbookshischapterssomeofthemostatmosphericandwellwritten,

      Reckon you might be right

      spoilers
      Have a suspicion Littlefinger and Cersei conspire to get Loras locked up by HS after Margaery/Tommen wedding to get back at Tyrells, works well but then they turn on her….after all it is a short jump from one noble to another once you have set the precedent. Reckon that shot of the Sparrows blocking off Tommen and KG is Tommen going to try and visit Cersei.

        Quote  Reply

    184. Luka Nieto,

      Well yeah, 9 seems like an overkill. But I can see 8, no prob. I believe TWoW and ADoS will truly be staggeringly huge. I edited my previous post a bit to better explain my position.

      Also, poor GRRM. Fans have been ridiculing him for a long time about his 9 or 10 seasons projections, and more recently about movies to conclude the series when it seems he only repeated what high HBO execs were speculating.

        Quote  Reply

    185. Ser Dosser,

      Brienne survives until the very end. Before she dies (if that) she needs to kill Stanis first and also, she is in mix for being AA, quite a favorite one I would say.

        Quote  Reply

    186. Mr Fixit:

      We always suspected it was HBO that was reining in D&D’s initial 8 or 9 season idea. Seems D&D themselves, for whatever reason, decided to scale back on the number of seasons. As I already said in a previous post, I find it quite strange. If the first three books easily took 4seasons to cover (admittedly, more like 3.5-3.75), I tend to doubt the remaining two humongous books (which Martin might well expand to three at the rate he’s going) don’t have 3 solid season-worth of material between them without fluffing or fillering it up

      What about AFFC and ADWD? Chapters from The Winds of Winter suggest to be the same pace as last two books.

        Quote  Reply

    187. Luka Nieto,

      Ups, yes, just refreshed the page and I saw Dolorous Ned’s post…

      And yes, I’ve read what he’s written. That’s why I wrote “I know I’m totally biased”. It’s nothing I can point at, but there’s always something that makes me side-eye him. It’s just… a feeling. A prejudice. You name it. But I can’t help it. Nor that I want to change my opinion, either!

      Edit to add: I didn’t say he’s trashing the show/D&D either. Only that I can’t take what he says at face value.

        Quote  Reply

    188. mau: What about AFFC and ADWD? Chapters from The Winds of Winter suggest to be the same pace as last two books.

      I don’t believe that. Feast and Dance were essentially one book geographically split into two. They are, barring certain storylines, one enormous Winds prologue.

        Quote  Reply

    189. mau: What about AFFC and ADWD? Chapters from The Winds of Winter suggest to be the same pace as last two books.

      The TWOW sample chapters we know were all moved from ADWD, so we really don’t know if GRRM has increased the pace since.

        Quote  Reply

    190. Mr Fixit: I don’t believe that. Feast and Dance were essentially one book geographically split into two. They are, barring certain storylines, one enormous Winds prologue.

      You don’t believe but D&D know. They will do what is the best for the show.

        Quote  Reply

    191. Luka Nieto:

      Yes, GRRM is totally talking trash about the show and D&D. Come on, people…

      Martin is not talking trash (I get the sarcasm), but he did make subtle attempts to undermine their authority every so often. All of this is just another attempt by GRRM to get more time to “finish” his books before the shows spoils the ending, in the line with his complaints about “butterfly effect”, the public suggestion about “the Dunk&Egg prequels”, etc. D&D have been very gracious when referring to GGRM, always praising him and so on, which is something that Martin has not always returned. Don’t get me wrong, I am a fan of the books but I think the show is better (despite my own criticism of it) and Martin had plenty of time to finish everything had he not tried to milk every penny he could get out of the Westeros universe. (I know, I know “GRRM is not my bitch”, but he does have some moral responsibility toward the fans and “The wits and wisdom of Tyrion Lannister” is not helping…) GRRM owes a lot to D&D, many people (myself included) started reading his books after watching the show.

      In short, I do not think GRRM has anything to say about the number of seasons, that’s entirely up to D&D and I suspect they will agree to a final split season as a compromise, them being gracious… Then probably HBO will give it a try with a D&E based season, if Martin manages to write 3-4 more stories.

        Quote  Reply

    192. Dolorous Ned: The TWOW sample chapters we know were all moved from ADWD, so we really don’t know if GRRM has increased the pace since.

      He has no choice if he wants to conclude the series in 7 books. It’ s worth noting that according to GRRM’s early book plans, we’re currently only at, say, 50-60% completion mark. Out of the original AGoT-ADwD-TWoW trilogy, he’s only covered around 1.5 or maybe 1.75 of those books. Of course, plans change all the time (and the original first book obviously spiraled out of control), but there’s still A LOT of ground to cover.

        Quote  Reply

    193. Spaniard SheBear:

      I know I’m totally biased (because of my own personal love/hate relationship with Martin), but every time I read anything from him, I think he’s throwing shade to D&D.

      Ditto! I could not agree more! See my previous post!

        Quote  Reply

    194. Patchface,

      I really don’t know what you’re referring to. Martin has ALWAYS talked about D&D in most positive terms. Not once has he criticised them (not that I think he always agrees with their decisions) or shown a harsher tone.

      Martin is simply a candid man and when asked about differences from the books, he answers honestly – hence the “butterfly effect”, but I don’t see what’s aimed at D&D in those comments. As for the number of seasons, Dunk&Egg etc, after his recent blog entry, I’m inclined to believe he’s simply publicly stating what was being discussed by HBO execs. After all, the development deal Martin signed with them a year back is obviously about something.

        Quote  Reply

    195. I hear this a lot but what exactly did Barristan do in the books to this point that the show has grievously omitted?

      I realize once we get to the post-Daznak point of ADwD, he gets his own POV and then we learn more about him but up to then, is there some massive role he played that we aren’t getting on the show?

      I like the character but I’ve never really felt that he’s been that shortchanged on the show. They obviously revealed his identity immediately and then I guess there was the Mero thing that he does outside Meereen but I don’t really consider those things to be any kind of defining character moments for him.

      Remember that we also are confirmed to be getting scenes this year with Barristan telling Dany about Arys and he’s said he gets a really good fight scene (which more or less aligns with his Krazz takedown in ADwD near the end of the book, the first time he really fights anyone).

      As far as his speculated death goes on the show, my best guess is that he either gets fried by Rhaegal/Viserion or dies trying to protect them from the Sons of the Harpy. Him being sent to them by Dany is the only legit reason I could see him leaving her side for the events at Daznak.

        Quote  Reply

    196. Grrrr.. GRRM vs D&D crap taking over this thread

      Now – read the whole article thanks to that naughty upload. TWO things for me.

      #1 the actor who dies used the word “tally”. Obviously Britishy. But the word tally has been on the decline usage-wise since 1981. Another suggestion (not that we need more) that it might be

      Selmy? He better make it TO the pit, not the outdoor scenes then, but right before?

      #2 Ramsey gets a “NEW” plaything to torture. I think that means that

      Myranda is NOT going to become fArya in anyway. Good. Also points to less of a likelyhood of entirely scrapping the idea of a Bolton wedding altogether I think. I STILL say the “winterfell worker” looks like a fantastic fArya.

      Side note – looks like Nikolai had a B-Day in his cell, and Lena while doing her walk. These poor people can’t be allowed to be human! Ruins the fantasy!

        Quote  Reply

    197. Mr Fixit,

      I respectfully disagree. First of all, this is Hollywood and when you start openly criticizing someone you won’t stay long in this business, especially when the show is so popular. Second, I am not saying Martin has been critical with the content of the show, he did say positive things about D&D, but if you watch the interviews there is a wide discrepancy between what Martin’s positive comments and the outright praise and deference that D&D made towards GRRM. Martin has an agenda to have the shows’ ending postponed until he finishes the books, and his “candid” observations are just veiled attempts to gain more time.

      I think Spaniard SheBear put it best: he always tries to “cast a shade” on D&D. And his development deal was just a bone HBO had thrown at him to keep him happy and off D&D’s backs. It’s good business practice also leaving open the possibility of using the D&E stories in the future. Afterwards, GRRM has been repeating “the show is the show and the books are the books”, which should be interpreted in the larger context: a concession he does not have a saying on the number of seasons and on the same time distancing himself from the producers and the series. Just my opinion, we can agree to disagree on this matter.

        Quote  Reply

    198. King Tommen,

      Or, you know, he could already be dead.

      I think his death happens relatively early (which is why he got less screentime than he expected), and serves to escalate the conflict between Dany and the Sons of the Harpy.

        Quote  Reply

    199. Dolorous Ned:
      GRRM has responded to the EW article on his blog: http://grrm.livejournal.com/412015.html

      I don’t know. No one knows.


      This is Hollywood, friends. As William Goldman wrote in ADVENTURES IN THE SCREEN TRADE, in Hollywood “nobody knows anything.”

      I do know that David & Dan have stated in interviews that they see the show winding up in seven seasons. People send me emails about that every time I say “I don’t know” in response to the question, as if I were somehow unaware of what D&D have said. I’m not.

      I also know that HBO wants the series to run longer than that. I have known that since the very beginning… well, actually, since the day after the second episode of season one aired, when I had lunch with one of HBO’s top execs, who told me, “We want this to run ten years.” I allowed that ten years sounded fine to me. I continue to hear similar sentiments from HBO every time I have meeting with them, be it in LA or New York.

      He doesn’t sound as delusional as a few times in the past and for once mentions that D&D want seven seasons, but he conveniently ignores the part where Lombardo says HBO will let D&D decide…

      20 seasons is fine, hell 50 as long as they are NOT BASED ON AFFC / DWD!!!

      Stop whining George and write the books and you will have 10 seasons!

        Quote  Reply

    200. Patchface,

      This is all simple speculation. Thing is, we don’t know if any of that is true. For example, your point about how HBO signed the development deal with Martin just to get him off D&D’s backs is completely unsupported by anything we’ve heard.

      As for Martin saying “the show is t he show and the books are the books”… why do you insists that the only plausible way to interpret it is that Martin is trying to distance himself from the show and the producers? It’s such a common sense thing that Martin said: there are enough subtle differences between the two that they can legitimately be considered a parallel canon, just like any adaptation. Not to mention that Martin has sole authority over the books while the show is a joint creative effort by a lot of people.

      There’s speculation based on solid evidence and then there’s speculation for speculation’s sake.

        Quote  Reply

    201. King Tommen,

      I keep repeating this. People keep ignoring it.

      Barristan hasn’t been shortchanged in the show. If anything, in Season 3 and 4 he had more moments for his character than in the books up to that point —remember, in the book timeline, he had just revealed his identity to Dany! Particularly, there’s when he tries to dissuade Dany from buying the Unsullied in Season 3, reminding her of Rhaegar (“When your brother Rhaegar led his army into battle at the Trident, men died for him because they believed in him, because they loved him. I fought beside the last dragon on that day, your Grace. I bled beside him”), and again how he tries to dissuade her from crucifying the Great Masters (“Sometimes it’s better to answer injustice with mercy.”)

      In contrast, in the books… he had a single fight with Mero, after which he revealed his identity. And that’s about it. Nothing else of importance has been omitted. If Season 5 comes and goes and he still hasn’t done much, then that would be another matter. But the leaked script summary confirms he will at last reveal how mad the Mad King was to Dany, as he did in the books —and honestly, that’s one of the few pre-POV moments in which Barristan affects any major character or plot. And it will be adapted! Also, the actor has said he will have a cool fight at last. So… I don’t know what people are talking about.

        Quote  Reply

    202. Mr Fixit,

      Well, just watch the panels and interviews and see how Martin absorbs all the praise and see if he is willing to “share” it with D&D. All this talk of more than 7 seasons has been either initiated or magnified by Martin, because it furthers his agenda, to my point.

        Quote  Reply

    203. Patchface,

      I did watch pretty much everything. And I simply don’t see it. People react in lots of different ways. I see that Martin regularly praises the show, always talks about it using the word “we”, and often mentions D&D in very friendly terms. I’m not sure what he should do. Fawn over them all time?

      Maybe you can point me to a specific example?

        Quote  Reply

    204. Luka Nieto: Barristan hasn’t been shortchanged in the show. If anything, in Season 3 and 4 he had more moments for his character than in the books up to that point —remember, in the book timeline, he had just revealed his identity to Dany!

      You always have fans that do this, though. There were Tolkien fans that were very upset that things we learn in Unfinished Tales or the Silmarillion were not made clear in the Lord of the Rings films. (That would have caused an amusing plagiarism suit!) There were Harry Potter fans who were very upset by the way that characters were portrayed or excluded in Movie 3 because of things we read in Book 5.

      Ultimately, we need to look at it this way: if GRRM had not elevated Selmy to a PoV character and a minor protagonist in Dragons, would we have noticed anything missing? Of course not. The audience will not notice anything missing if he dies early: and if it is done properly, then it could enhance Daeny’s story.

        Quote  Reply

    205. Mr Fixit,

      I can’t pinpoint something so specific that would settle this difference of opinions. It’s just a feeling I have after watching almost all interviews with Martin. The “butterfly effect”, the way he phrases the answers… To make an analogy, a teacher will always say “interesting question” when faced with a stupid question from students, there will be no direct criticism; a reference letter which is phrased in mild or moderate terms is usually more detrimental than no letter of recommendation at all.

        Quote  Reply

    206. Mr Fixit: It’s such a common sense thing that Martin said: there are enough subtle differences between the two that they can legitimately be considered a parallel canon, just like any adaptation.

      Rowling kept saying the same thing, and she kept engaging more and more with the films. What GRRM & Rowling (and other authors) are saying is very different: they novelized a story, then other people enacted the story. What is important is the story. Again, shark, T. rex, pointy teeth, fins vs. legs, gills vs. lungs, etc. What a novelist has to do to tell Story X sometimes is very different than what a showrunner has to do to tell Story X. Understand that, and the rest becomes clear.

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    207. Greenjones:

      Thanks. It makes sense now.

      And I see there’s another “Josh” posting here. Mea culpa. I’ve changed my name to differentiate between me and the other Josh.

        Quote  Reply

    208. jentario,

      I don’t have them. That’s why said “I think”. Some of the other posters should help. There was some information that meant Barristan was still around by some late-season episode. Anyone?

        Quote  Reply

    209. Luka Nieto,

      I agree with you about Martin and D&D.

      He talks about 10 seasons although it is clear that it will 8 at max (likely seven).

      He baffles the audience, for one reason. He is not able to finish the books. That’s all.

      He is too arrogant to admit that he missed the chance of a lifetime. He could have been a new Tolkien, but he became the author of GoT’s novelizations.

        Quote  Reply

    210. mau,

      While I don’t agree with the harsh tone, there is some truth to it. It must be a bitch to spend 20-30 years working on your magnum opus that will hopefully be remembered as one of the best fantasy series ever written only to have the climax of the whole bloody thing “premiere” on another medium under the guiding hands of other people. No matter how cool a guy Martin is and how good a working relationship with D&D he has, it must be rather disappointing. But hey, he has no one to blame but himself. Back in 2006/7, when he met with D&D, he thought ADwD would be out within a year. After that, he probably thought there’s no way NOT to finish the remaining two books on time. He had 10 years to do it!

        Quote  Reply

    211. Mr Fixit,

      Yes, if anyone recalls any evidence, please bring it forward. Super-curious now. Actually, I thought of a good scene that

      Barry could go out on early though…

      We know there’s something with Harpy sons and the chained Dragons. Not Quentyn I suppose I need to accept- (Although dammit I still wish there was a 3 scene Quentyn arc) Maybe an assassination attempt on the Dragons? Selmy dies heroically defending and ultimately freeing the Dragons!?

      I’d take that, I mean if it’s him or them…

        Quote  Reply

    212. There is a pic of Barristan and Greyworm (along with the rest of the gang) accompanying Dany when she’s wearing her wedding dress. So he’s at least around at that point and this would have to be in the 2nd half of the season because she’s wearing another type of white dress for all the earlier stuff.

      I don’t know where the pic is, it’s been shown a bunch of times though.

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    213. Greenjones,

      That’s cool. If I had to guess,

      I think it would be one of the first Sansa/LF scenes of the season and they’re watching some kind of mini-tournament that Robin is presiding over to get his face out to the people of the Vale as they stated was the goal at the end of S4. I bet that the whole “Brienne runs into their caravan” incident happens on their way back from this event as Sansa and LF are wearing the same clothes.

      The Royces could possibly be the place where they end up leaving Robin since he’s almost assuredly not staying with them the rest of the season and they wouldn’t just abandon him all by himself.

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    214. Mr Fixit: If the first three books easily took 4 seasons to cover (admittedly, more like 3.5-3.75), I tend to doubt the remaining two humongous books (which Martin might well expand to three at the rate he’s going) don’t have 3 solid season-worth of material between them without fluffing or fillering it up.

      I wouldn’t have said that Feast and Dance would be cut into one season before I read thel either, but here we are.

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    215. Greenjones,

      “Ridiculous. He’s a minor character! Why would he be there at all! Also, we hear about each and every one of the characters who are back! This is impossible, I say!”

      Glad to have him back, just to give a bit of flavor and life to the background characters 😉 I wonder what kind of scene that is. It looks like a stand for a tourney, maybe? Makes sense.

      King Tommen,

      She has two similar dresses, both of them white, with long sleeves resembling wings. The only major difference I can spot is that one is smooth (the wedding dress) and the other, seen throughout the trailers, has some kind of dragon-scale detailing. I’m not sure which she’s wearing in that scene you mention.

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    216. Luka Nieto,

      He was so good in ep. 408 too! The way he spat the name Baelish was perfect.

      I’m sorry to be the nag about all things wiki. It must be annoying as all hell, especially because I don’t bother joining up and doing it myself…but you will add this, right?

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    217. Greenjones,

      Oh of course. I’m on it!

      I liked him too. A small role, and I don’t expect it to become any larger, but he’s one of those great character actors enjoying and chewing their role, however small. The same goes for the actress who played Anya Waynwood. They only had a few minutes of screen-time, yet they felt like full-fledged characters. That’s what you get when you hire experienced working actors.

      I imagine Lady Waynwood will be back as well.

      EDIT: Done! Added to the character’s, actor’s and season’s page. I used your picture as the reference.

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    218. Balerion The Cat:
      Lulu’s Mum,
      Talking of which, is the greatest moments special available anywhere on the web for people that don’t live in the UK?

      It doesn’t seem to be, I’m surprised no-one stuck it on You Tube. It was on Sky Atlantic’s website for a little while but I think you needed to be a Sky subscriber to watch and it’s gone now. If people are really keen I could do a transcript, but it would take ages as there’s nearly 2 hours’ worth so I’d need a few people to confirm they’re interested. If you can organise a mini petition I’ll go for it! ;O)

      On a side note, probably showing my age here but how do people put stuff on You Tube and not get into trouble for breaking copyright? Do you have to set up a false trail of fake email addresses and stuff, or just hope that no-one notices? (Don’t know how to do an inquisitive face so just imagine one here.)

      Oh and Mau, has the you-know-what still not arrived yet?

      EDIT: I never attempt to guess who’s going to die, but everyone seems fairly certain that

      Arya kills Meryn Trant

      how much of a WTF moment would it be if it was the other way around instead? (I am joking by the way!) :O)

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    219. Greenjones,

      Nice find! I’m glad to hear than Yohn Royce is coming back. Rupert Vansittart was only had a few minutes of screentime last season, but he made them count – he was very good in the role. It’s also nice to know that the Lords of the Vale will still have a presence after they were established last season. I expect that Paola Dionisotti likely will be back as Anya Waynwood as well.

      I agree with the general speculation – Royce will probably appear in 502 at some tournament in the Vale that’s being held in Robin Arryn’s honor as part of his grand tour. On the way back from the tournament, Sansa, Baelish, and Robin cross paths with Brienne and that whole business happens. Given that we’ve had no indication so far that Robin Arryn goes to Winterfell with Sansa and Baelish, perhaps he stays with Royce and the other Vale lords under their protection – assuming, of course, something unfortunate doesn’t happen to him beforehand.

      So “The Sons of the Harpy” is only 51 minutes long. That’s a bit shorter than I generally like my Game of Thrones episodes to be, but length doesn’t correlate to quality, and it does come directly after a 60 minute episode in “High Sparrow”. And judging from the warnings, it does have all of the good stuff – some of which we saw in the trailer.

      The chaos that erupts in Meereen after Dany orders Daario to execute the former slave (who I think will probably be Reece Noi’s Keyr).

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    220. since Yohn Royce is officially hanging around bein’ awesome, is it too much to ask that he and LF are bringing Lord Robin to foster under Roose and Ramsay at Winterfell…

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    221. Mr Fixit: After that, he probably thought there’s no way NOT to finish the remaining two books on time. He had 10 years to do it!

      And one thing to keep in mind is that HBO is not happy about the fact that GRRM is not done with the series. They all thought that it would be done by now: or, at worse, we’d be waiting for Spring to come out in the very near future.

      As someone who publishes a lot for my own career, I must admit that I have little patience for people not finishing projects. When it comes down to brass tacks, it is about focussing solely on that project (or some chunk of it) for an extended period of time.

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    222. Jared,

      Yep. Scenes often get switched between directors eps. so I think it’s very likely that 504 was made a more tighter focused ep. while 503 was given a bit more heavy lifting. Hence the ten minute disparity in running time between them.

      You’re dead-on about the Keyr spec. too.

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    223. Harma Dogememe:
      since Yohn Royce is officially hanging around bein’ awesome, is it too much to ask that he and LF are bringing Lord Robin to foster under Roose and Ramsay at Winterfell…

      He’ll give SR to the Boltons to foster only if the Night’s King refuses the offer to foster him. He considered asking Craster, but now he’s dead.

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    224. Ser Dosser:
      If they go for 8-9 seasons i hope we get an entire season dedicated to Gilly and her babe, they deserve it.
      Also…
      Brienne r.i.p.

      Now we now why Christie went on to star in Star Wars 7 so quickly …
      Also GreyWorm, Barristan, Bron, Arya, SweetRobin, Loras, Dario, Tormund, Stannis :-(….

      Since when do you need a special reason to sign on for Star Wars? Unless George Lucas is writing and directing.

      Anyway, several cast members are signed up for franchises and big movies. Gwendoline and Natalie Dormer shot Mockingjay last year, Peter Dinklage shot X-Men: Days of Future Past, Sophie Turner is going to be in X-Men… Plus multiple cast members have made films including those where they play leads (I saw the really good Danish drama A Second Chance with NCW in the lead last week, Kit Harington was in that Pompeii movie, etc.) while on GoT.

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    225. Greenjones,

      Sansa should smile more. Even if it’s not her old warm smile, even if it’s her new creepy “I know what you want” smile 😛

      Cool pictures. I imagine that we will get bombarded by these until April 12.

      Greenjones, do you have a link to the AFOIAF thread?

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    226. Luka Nieto,

      I imagine she isn’t enjoying this tourney quite so much as her first one.

      (Come to think of it in the show she mustn’t have enjoyed that one too much either, what with Ser Hugh getting skewered and all).

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    227. Neverunderstooddamphairhateeasilyoneofthemostcomplexcharactersinbookshischapterssomeofthemostatmosphericandwellwritten:
      Doesn’t really fit the bill of the actor whose character apparantly dies, but additionally, I believe Tommen will die in s5 (pure specilation). The cold opener/flashback will set it up. Throughout the season he Will be shown as drawing himself more and more away from cercei, until the point where he actually starts to feel like a promising king. Thats when he gets killed, in my opinion, cerceis paranoia reawakens and the last chapter of Dance becomes that much more powerful. That’s why Myrcella will apparantly be going back to KL. She’s the regent in season 6, until she herself bites it at the end of that. What I believe anyway.

      If Tommen dies, Myrcella would be going back to KL because she is going to be the queen. (And this fulfill another part of the prophecy.) I don’t understand what you mean by “she’s the regent for season 6”). Who is?

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    228. Annara Snow,

      Don’t be facetious. I certainly don’t want to see him turned into a monster! I just think it would do the little guy a world of good to have 15% to 33% of his skin peeled off in long, thin strips. Fat Walda can be his wetnurse in between flaying sessions and then that will turn into a whole ‘nother Grey Worm/Miss thing!

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    229. Greenjones,

      This is really, really, really good news. Figuring out where it all fits is becoming a bit complicated, given that Littlefinger is here, in KL, and in Winterfell this season.

      It could also be that the LF/Sansa in Winterfell plot is a Craster’s Keep-like plot: Giving them something to do in the mid-season, then getting them back to the Vale for their TWOW story, and possibly LF acquiring his army, supported by Royce and Waynwood, as it is now apparant they haven’t been cast for the heck of it.

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    230. Annara Snow: Since when do you need a special reason to sign on for Star Wars? Unless George Lucas is writing and directing.

      Actually, “George Lucas is writing and directing” is these days a better reason to stay away than actually get involved in a project.

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    231. I don’t know why some people keep complaining about the 7 seasons plan. Remember, D&D knows (broad strokes at least) the ending of all major characters, and if they think that 7 seasons is enough to reach that point in a satisfactory way, then is fine with me. I certainly would prefer a good tight 7 seasons story than a disperse and bloated 10 seasons. They won’t make the same mistake GRRR made in AFFC and ADWD: introduce too many subplots and too many characters we don’t know and we don’t give a fig about. As a consequence of this, GRRM completely lost the control of the plot and now he has a bloated mess instead a good tight story. So 7 seasons is fine, IMHO.

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    232. Hoyti Von Totiy,

      The only awesome part I remember (other than counting the trees, which I agree she’s super good at) is Crackclaw Point. Talk about an LOL. Of course that probably won’t happen on TV now, with her already being past that part of her journey (I think? I mean she already found the Hound on TV…) But if the Brave Companions had been included in s2/s3, I dare say we’d all be DEMANDING Crackclaw on TV.

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    233. It better not be Jorah or I’m cutting a bitch.

      Selmy, I can deal with. He’s already failed completely in the books and show to educate Dany about her dad, and I don’t think he ever will, so IMO the only potentially interesting thread hanging for him is if Lemore = Ashara Dayne is true, in which case it won’t apply to the series anyway since Griff & co are cut.

      I will be pleased (though surprised) if they kill Bronn. I’m pretty sick of him being used for cheap laughs considering he’s a minor character in the long run.

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    234. I’m not sure of how to make spoilers alerts, so SPOILERS :

      (SPOILERS)

      We’ve seen a picture where Tyrion sits with Daenerys in the Daznak Pit, and there is this “wheel” speech in the trailer where Dany is probably discussing with Tyrion about the Westeros families… The list of Dany advisers is huge now, that’s why the death of Barristan is highly possible!

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    235. Urban Bran:
      Why can’t they just

      . That was my most anticipated scene for years and they passed it over for 2 really lame season-ending scenes. Like, stop teasing/torturing the people who really want to see

      on screen, I’m just getting a little sick of this.

      Thank you. I couldn’t agree more. It really looks like Benioff and Weiss are fucking it up. Rapist Jaime, the juvenile obsession with Theon’s penis, Tyrell overkill, barely any dire wolves (no Jon/Ghost deep connection) Missandei and Grey Worm romance etc, and no northern conspiracy, no Euron and Victarion, LSH and Red Wedding fallout (yet). WTF was the point then of introducing the BwB and resurrection?

      It seems that they don’t know much of where Martin is headed in terms of the overall ASOIAF story and Benioff and Weiss are completely making it up as they go along.

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    236. jjp,

      Well anything is possible, but it would be pretty unlikely to happen in that particular way as

      it appears that at the Siege of Mereen, the Yunkish, Astapori and their Mereen supporters are on the verge of being neutralised by Barristan, the sellswords who are switching sides and the shed load of Ironborn who’ve just pegged up on the beaches! The harpies won’t be a major player going forward so would make no sense for them to kill Selmy by that point.

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    237. I think Gilly may be the one who dies early. It’s Hannah’s fourth season on the show and it seems now only a remote possibility that Sam will take her south to his family’s home- therefore her season 5 story would be greatly reduced.
      Hannah did an interview with Vulture last year and while she doesn’t actually say if she is a bookreader, she seemed to have a good grasp on what parts of the story was book canon and what was show only.
      That said, I also think Barristan, Grey Worm, Edd, Loras and Olenna (why bring her back unless its to kills her off- I think she’ll get Kevan’s death and he’ll go another way) are all goners this seaon.

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    238. Wimsey,

      If we’re comparing to the books then Selmy is much more fleshed out that other characters that can be used for ‘dramatic effect’. You may not find him interesting but , as this thread shows, lots of people do. He has a history and backstory that is second to none and he starts getting more chance to show what he can do in the last couple of books. Greyworm is a much more sensible option if you want to kill characters for an emotional response. Selmy is still a useful character to maintain going forward.

      Double posting as there’s no edit option!

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    239. Pigeon:
      Stone Cold Bastard,

      Definitely agree that there needs to be some point to the BwB storyline, and the fact that the puppy is only mostly dead.

      All of the subplots within the Riverlands were just so creepy and fascinating:

      the RW fallout and the BwB/LS on a rampage, with hanging Freys and Lannister soldiers all over the place; Nymeria and a massive pack of wolves lurking in the woods and shadows, also attacking Lannister soldiers; Jaime securing the peace and traveling to various strongholds and the showdown with the Blackfish at Riverrun.

      There was some serious drama and fascinating storytelling that could’ve added a terrific dynamic to the show.

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    240. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I think the charectors that will die in show but not in books . 1. Bron. 2.grey worm 3. Loras – if they kill selmy I hate it I love his war speech and I think that would make for a great pump up ur troops moment . I think this interview basically establishes that the greyjoys , clegange bowl and possible even young griff is still on the table .

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    241. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Good points; the specifics of his situation aside though, my broader point is giving an awesome character a “disappointing” death seems perfectly in-bounds for GRRM, not just D&D.

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    242. Grand maester giz,

      Find it strange if they do turn down the oppurtunity to do the Sige of Mereen in all it’s glory. Hope they maintain Selmy and introduce the Ironborn into the mix for it but it’s not looking good. Will keep the hope alive until it’s all certainly ruled out though.

      jjp,

      I think most of the better characters have gone out in a pretty memorable or productive fashion so far. The only debatable one for me is

      Aemon but I guess it was hard with his age

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    243. Stone Cold Bastard: the juvenile obsession with Theon’s penis, Tyrell overkill, barely any dire wolves (no Jon/Ghost deep connection) Missandei and Grey Worm romance etc, and no northern conspiracy, no Euron and Victarion, LSH and Red Wedding fallout (yet). WTF was the point then of introducing the BwB and resurrection?

      Obsession with Theon’s penis? Can you explain this to me?

      Tyrell overkill???

      Barely any dire wolves? And they are more important than Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Arya, Cercei, Jaime,…? This is not Animal planet.. LOL

      northern conspiracy? unproven fan theory

      Missandei and Grey Worm? Better than Penny and Tyrion romance…

      LSH and Red Wedding fallout? And that lame character achieved in three books specifically what ?

      WTF was the point then of introducing the BwB and resurrection? Azor Ahai?? Jon?

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    244. Stone Cold Bastard: WTF was the point then of introducing the BwB and resurrection?

      Even without

      Lady Stoneheart

      , the BwB still played a big role in Arya’s development and pushing her plot forward

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    245. TheTouchOfFrost:
      Jesterr223456,

      Alzheimer jokes aren’t cool considering who died yesterday. You want to try using some manners when talking to people for a change?

      +1 to that!

      Settle down, people. We’re talking about fictional characters in a world created in a man’s imagination, adapted to television by people he chose to let do it, which will go 7 seasons, or 10, or 20, and whose books will come out when they’re ready to and not based on the calendar.

      We as fans are owed nothing.

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    246. Jesterr223456,

      I gave you a suggestion not an order. You’re needlessly aggressive and childish ( calling people fat and making fun of diseases like Alzheimers for merely disagreeing with you) with everyone you speak to in these forums. It’s not hard to spot as everyone else shows eachother common courtesy and respect so your unpleasantness sticks out like a sore thumb. Try talking sensibly and using some manners and you’ll get more out of your interactions with people than with this ‘any attention is good attention’ attitude.

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    247. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Completely agree. These anti-book purists are just as annoying as the true hardcore book purists. Just being upset over one or two of the storylines that didn’t make it into the show doesn’t make you a book purist. They have no need to be so hostile.

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    248. Stone Cold Bastard,

      I commiserate with you regarding the riverlands, which I also found intriguing and full of potential in both AFfC & ADwD. I’ve posted many times about it. The mix of villains, escapees, undead, almost dead, thought to be dead, mummers, Lannister/Frey/Tarley/Dayne goofballs, zealots, lurking wolves, anti-heroes and maybe heroes is fun to think about and anticipate. But that stuff is relegated to the page and the show won’t fuck with it. Probably only TWoW is going to shed any light on that area. I’ve accepted that the show has gone in other “character-combo” directions, for better or worse.

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    249. Young Dragon: , the BwB still played a big role in Arya’s development and pushing her plot forward

      Also, showing that Red Priests can do things like bring people back did develop them as a general plot point. Even if that particular talent never is used again, we’ve gotten fair warning that they are capable of a lot of “miraculous” powers: something about their religion is actually true. (Whether they understand it in the least is a completely separate issue, of course!)

      The other thing to remember is that the BwB does not in itself have a storyline. They are just foils affecting the main characters. One thing about foils is that they are almost always replaceable: it’s almost always the what that matters, not the who.

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    250. TheTouchOfFrost: He has a history and backstory that is second to none and he starts getting more chance to show what he can do in the last couple of books.

      I’m sorry, but this is errant nonsense. Through the first three books, Selmy’s history and backstory are second to every protagonist (major and minor) and almost all of the secondary characters. Selmy gets no real character development until Dragons: otherwise, all we know are a few trivial details about him that are irrelevant to the story or even to the main plots. It’s just the type of “background stuff” that books have to have in order to maintain a narrative: it is the literary equivalent of sets and costumes.

      Now, Selmy’s character obviously does get developed quite a bit in Dragons: but that is when we first learn anything meaningful about the character. But as I keep trying (and failing!) to remind you, it is pointless to criticize B&W for “leaving out” stuff that is not in the three stories that they have adapted to date. By this token, we should criticize GRRM for failing to develop Selmy (or Arianne or Quentyn or Victarion) in Game of Thrones.

      At any rate, although that stuff was pretty well written, it still was not necessary: the Dragons’/Crows’ story would have been just as clear without him present. Whether it interests you or me is quite moot: the question is, will it make a substantial enough contribution to the story for the audience to think that it was worth including? My bet is “no way.”

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    251. Wimsey,

      Just because he isn’t a protagonist doesn’t mean the character doesn’t have a richer history and backstory. A story untold can be richer than one that has. If you must insist on sucking the life out of everything and talking about it in a technical manner then his ‘background stuff’ is a lot more detailed than many other characters including a lot of the protagonists. You may think this irelevant as you don’t seem to enjoy the character. Those of us who do think it is…especially that he lived through Aerys’ reign and is now Dany’s advisor. The “trivial” details you mention are actually pretty defining moments in the history of the niverse. He actually saved Aerys in the Defiance at Duskendale that was the incident that began his creeping madness and ended the male Blackfyre bloodline making him closely tied to the Targaryens as well as well as being a key figure in the War of the Ninepenny Kings and Robert’s Rebellion. You can claim these aren’t important in the context of the show but to say they’re not important in the wolrd created by the books is a touch foolish. He could be an important character to have around if Aegon appears (which you seem to think he will) and also in warning Dany about how Aerys descended into madness as he witnessed it from start to finish. Dragon’s was merely giving a window into an already fully fleshed out character.

        Quote  Reply

    252. TheTouchOfFrost: Just because he isn’t a protagonist doesn’t mean the character doesn’t have a richer history and backstory.

      No, the fact that a character has nearly no character development means that the character does not a “rich history and backstory”. It is true, however, that every protagonist and every secondary character up to this point has a much richer history and backstory in the minds of readers than incidental characters like Selmy because GRRM took the time to develop those characters. That is what a rich history and backstory means: telling us how and why the character “ticks.”

      TheTouchOfFrost: You may think this irelevant as you don’t seem to enjoy the character.

      What does my “enjoyment” have to do with it? I like the character just fine; at any rate, I certainly have nothing against the character. However, just because I like the character does not mean that I cannot recognize that the character is essentially irrelevant in the first three stories. Those are two completely separate issues.

      TheTouchOfFrost: He actually saved Aerys in the Defiance at Duskendale that was the incident that began his creeping madness and ended the male Blackfyre bloodline making him closely tied to the Targaryens as well as well as being a key figure in the War of the Ninepenny Kings and Robert’s Rebellion.

      That fits under the heading of “irrelevant trivia.” It has no bearing on the development of the main characters and thus no bearing on the story. Selmy’s two big effects on the story in no way depend on these things or (really) have anything to do with these things. It just makes Selmy a sort of “Glorfindel.”

      TheTouchOfFrost: You can claim these aren’t important in the context of the show but to say they’re not important in the wolrd created by the books is a touch foolish.

      I wrote that they are unimportant to the stories created by the books and the show. I never wrote anything about Selmy or anyone else being important to GRRM’s fictional world because that’s not important for the stories. Indeed, most of what is important to GRRM’s (or any author’s) stories is not very important for the world they are creating, and most of the events that are important to a world in which a story is set are unimportant for the story set in that world.

      Now, I know that you are much more interested in “world building” than in story, but the audience is not. If they were, then they would be watching the History Channel instead: real history builds a world that is much, much richer than one built by any faux history. If they were, then shows that just piled up historical details (derived from real or fictional histories) with no story would be huge hits: but no such shows exist, as they would bomb in the ratings.

      TheTouchOfFrost: He could be an important character to have around if Aegon appears (which you seem to think he will) and also in warning Dany about how Aerys descended into madness as he witnessed it from start to finish.

      Information does not make a character important as a character: it makes the character important as a foil. That is, he might provide stuff that will be important for Daeny’s character development. However, nothing about Selmy’s past will be relevant there. The only thing that will matter is what we’ve seen on TV: Selmy spends a lot of time with Daeny, he is deep in her councils, and eventually she will trust him enough to accept a truth that she is not going to like. The fact that he’s played Westerosi James Bond had no bearing on this in the books, and it would not have any bearing for it on TV.

      TheTouchOfFrost: Dragon’s was merely giving a window into an already fully fleshed out character.

      Hardly. We knew nothing of Barristan’s background, how he got to be the person he was, how exactly he felt about the major events in his life, why he made the choices that he did at different points, what personal costs if any there were, etc. That is what we know about characters that are at all “fleshed out,” never mind “fully.” He was basically a cardboard cut-out “honorable knight” character insofar as we knew. Oh, sure, you could guess that it was not that simple because GRRM rarely writes such simple characters. But assuming that there were some complexities and knowing about them are two completely different things.

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    253. Here is the direct link to what Martin had to say about this whole affair in his Not-A-Blog section of the website. See also the comment section where he answered to several questions from the fans. Some interesting insight and thouhgts.

      AS ALWAYS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS, AKA THE UNSULLIED, THE POSTING AND THE COMMENTS SECTION MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS…BE FOREWARNED!!!!!!!

      http://grrm.livejournal.com/412015.html

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    254. Wimsey,

      He’s had plenty of character development, it’s just been done ‘off-screen’. If you’re tlaking about the show I’d agree but the character itself from the books has had plenty even if you’ve not gone on the journey with him.
      Again, not talking about the first three books. I’m talking about the character as a complete entity. He has been important with regards to plotlines that have progressed to be important at this stage. If you don’t enjoy a character you’ll take less interest in them. If you’re less interested then you’re more inclined to overlook this.
      So you’re arguing that the world in which a story takes place is not an important element? The success of entities like GoT, Harry Potter, LotR,etc is in no small part due to the detail and scale of the world they take place in. In Potters case , I’d argue that the world is the major reason for it’s success as the characters inhabiting it are rather bland in comparison. You and others may not but there is a large segment of the audience for which the world is a major factor in their interest and enjoyment of the show.
      Perhaps not, but would it not be wise to leave the option for that to be explored if it turns out to be important for progressing the story(which with Dany ascending to queenhood the struggle between ehr Targ halves would prove interesting)? To remove a character who makes this more doable for an emotional respone when others who do not have this capacity could be used for the same purpose is an odd decision.
      Again, I refer to a story not yet told is not necessarily worse than one that has been. Selmy is an interesting figure. An untapped resource. The bones of his character and sotry have been laid they just need the flesh revealing.

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    255. I think the unexpected death is going to be…

      Brienne. Her AFFC chapters were great, but it’s the kind of stuff that they cut out of the show. She already had her big showdown with the Hound (invented by the show), and her purpose in the books is to lead Jaime to LS. LS is not in the show and Jaime is going to Dorne, thus I think Brienne has become expendable to the show. Plus, Gwendoline Christie has read all of the books.

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    256. Ryan E,

      I agree, That was my first thought too.

      Her story expands greatly in the books, but without Stoneheart and with Jaimie in Dorne, what does she have to do? Her roaming would be a waste of screen time. One quick visit to the Vale to help Sansa become “dark” is all she is known to do this season unless I missed something.

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    257. TheTouchOfFrost: He’s had plenty of character development, it’s just been done ‘off-screen’.

      There is no such thing as off-screen character development. All character development is what the author tells the reader about a character.

      TheTouchOfFrost: Again, not talking about the first three books.

      But that is the only thing that is relevant when we discuss the first three seasons.

      TheTouchOfFrost: So you’re arguing that the world in which a story takes place is not an important element? The success of entities like GoT, Harry Potter, LotR,etc is in no small part due to the detail and scale of the world they take place in.

      Rubbish. The success of those stories was because they were gripping stories that appealed to a lot of people. If Harry Potter had not been an intriguing character, then no amount of “world-building” would have made that series popular. More important for our discussion, had the adaptations wasted time on world-building, then they would not have been popular adaptations. (Indeed, a big reason why the first two Harry Potter films were unpopular was the unnecessary world-building.)

      TheTouchOfFrost: Again, I refer to a story not yet told is not necessarily worse than one that has been.

      If Selmy is going to be an important character – that is, if the reasons why he is the man that he became wind up important to the story, not the deeds that he accomplished – then that development needs to be done when it is appropriate. At this point in the overarching tale (three stories into it), those details are not relevant, and thus trivial: and audiences do not retain trivial details.

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    258. I am loving this speculation.

      And I can’t wait to see people loose their shit over which ever characters die!

      Book 4 & 5 may be boring, but season 5 is going to be awesome!

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    259. Wimsey,

      Then what will happen when Bran comes back? Of course it’s possible as long it is communicated at some point.
      I’m discussing the character as a whole not the first 3 seasons of the show!
      So if Harry Potter took place in a call centre it would have been as successful? To not recognise that world’s importance in the success of the franchise is a little naive. The first two films were unpopular?! They first film broke box office records and got mostly positive reviews so not sure how you can claim they weren’t popular! I’m not a fan but even I have to admit they were very well-received on all fronts. Funny you should say that as most people I’ve spoken to and most of which are huge Potter fans think the earlier films were much better than the later ones. I’d be hard pushed to find a fan who doesn’t put Deathly Hallows as their least favourite of the films…and books for that matter.
      I bet they remember Theon’s todger being cut off or that hug between Jon and Arya. Sometimes things that you may not think are important really strike a chord. You seem to strip things right down to the bare bones which may work for you but I like the extra detail myself.

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    260. TheTouchOfFrost: Then what will happen when Bran comes back? Of course it’s possible as long it is communicated at some point.

      What does this have to do with anything? If you are referring to character development somehow, then, yes, it has to be in the books or on screen. There is no “off screen” development. I’m not sure what Bran’s “return” has to do with developing Selmy or any other supporting or incidental characters.

      TheTouchOfFrost: So if Harry Potter took place in a call centre it would have been as successful? To not recognise that world’s importance in the success of the franchise is a little naive. The first two films were unpopular?! They first film broke box office records and got mostly positive reviews so not sure how you can claim they weren’t popular!

      The Harry Potter films did not break any box office records. Fellowship of the Rings wound up selling more tickets than the first film in the end: negative word-of-mouth caused the first HP film to fall steeply in ticket sales, and it wound up selling only about 75-80% of the tickets forecast from prior audience interest surveys. Negative reaction to the first film resulted about 20% of the viewers not returning for the second film, and a nearly identical negative reaction to the second film set up another 15% of the audience not coming back. A big reason that the films were so heavily revamped was because WB had promised their shareholders a lot more $$$, and their extensive audience surveys revealed that although a promeninent and emphatic minority wanted longer films, the majority of people (particularly those that were equivocal about coming back) wanted shorter films more tightly focused on a story.

      In contrast, the Lord of the Rings, which got much stronger critical reviews and much higher audience marks (and which also adapted much more heavily to tell Tolkien’s story cinematically) saw 5+% increases in ticket sales after both films. Many hardcore Tolkienistas wept and wailed and slashed their robes and cried unto Baal, but the audiences ignored them. (Heck, people like John Stewart and Jay Leno made fun of them on TV!)

      Now, it is true that many hardcore Potterheads liked the first two films more than did the general audiences: but even for Harry Potter, the hardcore fans were a tiny fraction of the box office. There actually was a reverse correlation between how the Harry Potter films were ranked on Harry Potter sites, and how they were rated on general movie sits like BoxOfficeMojo; however, the BoxOfficeMojo ratings always predicted the next audience extremely well, whereas the Harry Potter fan ratings made dead-backwards predictions for audience interest in the next film!

      As for Deathly Hallows, that was a huge disappointment to the hardcore Potterheads because Rowling was fully involved with that one, to an even greater extent than GRRM is involved with the TV series. So, they were hoping for a “purist” delight. Instead, JKR betrayed them by cooperating in adapting it and then having the audacity to explain why she did it.

      The big reason why this is relevant is because what the hardcore Potterheads and Tolkienistas liked about those books and what they wanted in the movies was very different from what general readers liked about those books and what the general public wanted in movies. For HP, general readers were interested in the mysteries and the characters. What was Harry’s scar? What was Snape’s endgame? Even the teen romance stuff (particularly on which boy Hermione would settle) seemed to draw a lot of interest. In other words, the human stuff. They didn’t care about the backstory of Hogwarts or Minerva McGonnagal’s past or exactly how Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald or any of that other stuff.

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    261. Big Mac,

      if you have read adwd then you would know that nearly half the people you named die in that book lol. any one could die as grrm has so offen said. but d&d r killing new people hey the kindly man may kill arya to use as a face to assainate some one. my guess even tho it saddess me would be barry or jorah to make room for the little loin in the dragons court. ps when jon snow says who will join me everybody crys

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    262. Wimsey,

      We’re to assume Bran is going to receive some character development whilst off screen for the next season (Green Seer training or whatever) so if that is the case when he returns then he has received development despite it not being on screen.
      The first film broke opening day records at the time as well as second day and opening weekend records and has only recently been beaten as the highest grossing Thanksgiving weekend film ( by Hunger Games). At the time, it was the second highest grossing film of all time and Philosophers Stone is the second highest grossing film in the whole series ( after DH Pt2) and here in the UK it’s still the 3rd highest grossing film of all time. The subsequent two films continued to break box office records and finish in the top 3 grossing films of that year. To claim that they were unsuccessful ( which you did) is deluded.
      So successful tourist attractions such as The Wizarding World of Harry Potter (that are opening all over the world) and The Magical World of Harry Potter here in the UK would do just as well if they just had someone sat reading the story? The deny that it is a key ingredient in the books and films success is a bit silly. You have to at least admit that it enriched the story or was useful in cementing the imagery in the readers/viewers mind.

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    263. I’m sorry, i’m new here. i don’t know how to use the spoiler tag 🙁

      i’m afraid it’s gonna be theon, because he had big part in ADWD, he’s not a popular character in the series and there’s not much that can be done with him in his post-tortured state.

      I just hope he’ll have a good death scene 🙁

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    264. Jesterr223457,

      I’m sorry, I was having a discussion to explore someone elses point of view not to “win” or “lose”. Glad you’ve been following it though. You might have learnt how grown ups with opposing views talk to eachother.

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    265. Internetwalker,

      Welcome!

      The spoiler code can be found at the top of each article, before the comments section, directly above where it says “Jump to (and always support) the bottom.”

      [s p o i l e r] insert spoilery text here [/ s p o i l e r] without the spaces.

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