HBO Signs Game of Thrones Cast Members for Seventh Season

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Valar morghulis… All men must die- but it looks like at least some of the major Thrones characters will survive through to the seventh (and potentially final) season of the HBO show.

THR is reporting that HBO has renegotiated several contracts to include the option for the seventh season of the show, many of which include “huge raises” that will “make the cast members among the highest paid on cable TV.”

Spoilers after the jump where we list which actors have the potential to make it to the final season of the show.

The actors who have renegotiated include Peter Dinklage, Kit Harington, Lena Headey, Emilia Clarke, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Natalie Dormer, Sophie Turner, and Maisie Williams.

While the actors have only signed on for the “option”  of appearing in season seven, it doesn’t necessarily mean that all of these character will survive that long; however, it does seem to boost their odds… something which could be distressing to book readers.  Depending on how much of a spoiler purist you are, some of the names above could be alarming considering where we left these characters at the conclusion of Feast and Dance.

While the article points out that there are several other actors on the “B-list” who will also be returning, there were no additional names attached. So, while it’s possible (and in some cases likely) that Alfie Allen, Isaac Hempstead-Wright, Gwendoline Christie, John Bradley, and many others will also be returning, it’s not 100% clear at this time who may have been included.

201 responses

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    1. Some of that is telling, but with Bran being treated as an afterthought by the TV show, that didn’t surprise me.

      Sam however did, then again, if they’re not doing the oldtown plot I’m not sue what he could add to the plot. They might even fridge him for Jon’s storyline. I hope not I love Sam the Slayer

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    2. This is really misleading in regards to the actors not mentioned. There’s nothing in the linked article to suggest that they also didn’t renegotiate. The article specifically says that the “A” tier “includes” and the “B” tier are the actors named “and others”. It also refers to ” A lower tier of regular actors will receive much smaller pay increases, according to sources.” So there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Alfie Allen, Gwendoline Christie etc. did not ALSO sign extensions. I really think you need to revise this article before you incite panic where you don’t need to.

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    3. There is no mention of either dillane and liam in your post and the article it seems

      just imagine the rage around the forums if this is actually what happens

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    4. So glad the contract negotiations went off cleanly and quietly, unlike shows like Modern Family/Friends/CSI where there were very protracted, ugly public negotiations.

      Of course, now that the actors are locked in for Season 7, HBO can (and likely will) split the season in two. The whole reasons shows like Sopranos, Mad Men, and Breaking Bad split their final seasons is almost solely so they can avoid giving the cast the raises that would come with an additional season.

      Series finale: June 2018 with Season Seven Part Two. Bank it.

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    5. That is very interesting… the Kit Harington signing is obviously the big potential spoiler, but this puts an (uncharacteristic for ASoIaF) aura of safety on all the involved characters.

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    6. OK, why are you people pretending that you haven’t read this from the THR article:

      “Of course, when an actor signs on for seven seasons of Game of Thrones it doesn’t mean his or her character will live that long. ”

      Or you are just making a fuss for the sake of it.

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    7. The language in the original THR article leaves plenty of room for “other” actors and the “lower tier of regular actors” to also have renegotiated. I see no reason to think Gwen, Alfie, John, and others aren’t included.

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    8. Yes, the THR article clearly states that other regular cast members signed as well. The article only saw fit to list the marquee names.

      And hasn’t Liam Cunningham’s contract been six years from the start, I.e. through season 7?

      Don’t freak out unnecessarily, people. All this means is that D&D have put all their ducks in a row about as efficiently as possible, at least behind the scenes.

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    9. Considering the changes that have happened and that the frequency of change is increasing, I wouldn’t read much into this as far as spoilers for the book. Even if they were to have signed someone (which they only signed for the option), that doesn’t mean that person won’t meet their end in TWoW. All it means is that that person will survive (maybe) to Season 7 Episode 1.

      The only potential spoiler here is Kit, and I don’t know anyone who has read the books that thinks Jon’s story is over

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    10. Hey all- I changed the language on the second paragraph. My original intent wasn’t to alarm, but simply to question why those other names weren’t readily made available if they are also on the list of re-negotiations.

      I hope that the new text clears that up!

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    11. Andrew:
      Of course, now that the actors are locked in for Season 7, HBO can (and likely will) split the season in two. The whole reasons shows like Sopranos, Mad Men, and Breaking Bad split their final seasons is almost solely so they can avoid giving the cast the raises that would come with an additional season.

      Series finale: June 2018 with Season Seven Part Two.Bank it.

      Season splits can only work if the filming falls within certain temporal bounds. Unless “Part 2” started filming right after Part 1, which I’m pretty sure is impossible, that wouldn’t work. You can’t just say that two seasons are one season by calling them something different.

      Assuming the $300,000/episode figure is correct, that’s about $3 million a season for each of the A-tier, which means $15 million in cast costs just for them (I’m not sure what they’re getting paid now, but I imagine that represents several million in new expenditure). I have no idea what the B-tier would be getting by comparison, but if you halve the A-tier, that’s $150,000 and about $1.5 million a season for each.

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    12. King DBC,

      I think that’s entirely possible. The Sopranos had a 2 part final season and that seems to have started something of a trend. Breaking Bad did that, Mad Men are doing that, The Walking Dead do that every season now. I think it’s very possible GoT will do that.

      2015 – Season 5
      2016 – Season 6
      2017 – Season 7 Part 1
      2018 – Season 7 Part 2

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    13. As mentioned, the article has some interesting news but in terms of spoiling future developments in the series and/or books, not really. It explicitly states that just because they’ve listed actors, it doesn’t mean that they will absolutely be in all 7 seasons. The 7th year is an option now tacked on to the 6 year deals the actors all originally agreed to. The option is there should HBO decide to pick it up for a 7th season (while not official, is pretty much a formality at this point given the popularity of the show).

      The main benefit here for the actors is that the renegotiation allows new raises to be implemented immediately for S5 and S6 (which was most likely the carrot dangled in order for the actors to all agree to the 7th year option). The tiering of the actors is interesting and logical as they can’t give 50 people the exact same raises. Important to note that the article isn’t listing everyone in each categories, simply examples of some of them.

      It should be noted that as always, the cast being “locked up” for 7 seasons is only referring to the “regulars” and not guest stars which on this show covers off a number of characters such as Aemon, Balon, Walder, Lancel, Janos etc. etc. So if you take this news to mean “Yay, no possibility of re-casts ever”, then that’s not necessarily true.

      Finally, while technically there is still a possibility that an 8th season could be added at some point, it would appear to be a very remote possibility. Everything the show producers have said and done for the past year or so indicates this is done at 7 seasons. You would think that if an 8th season were in the cards, then the option would have been added during this negotiation.

      I still however believe there is a strong chance that the 7th season is either an extended one or broken into 2 parts (like two 7 episode segments). In the final year, the production concerns about how much time they have to film the season isn’t an issue and they can simply delay the start of the final season if they wish to because they no longer have to stay on their year to year production schedule. Having a longer or separated final season allows HBO to milk the golden goose one last time for maximum profit without having to renegotiate new contracts for everyone. It’s pretty much the template now for cable series (Mad Men and Breaking Bad) and HBO has already employed this method with The Sopranos and Sex and the City. I’d say there’s a very good chance we see this happen.

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    14. Sean C.: You can’t just say that two seasons are one season by calling them something different.

      There’s a lot still up in the air, for certain, but networks absolutely do this all the time.

      Mad Men, Breaking Bad, The Sopranos. Their average seasons were always the standard cable 12-13 episodes. Their final seasons were all split in two, and extended.
      7&7 for Mad Men,
      8&8 for Breaking Bad,
      12&9 for Sopranos. (21 total! Makes you wonder)

      The two halves of Breaking Bad’s final season won consecutive Emmys for Best Drama. Cast and crew repeatedly said in interviews that AMC lawyers insisted they be referred to as Season 5.1 and Season 5.2 instead of seasons 5 and 6.

      I’m sure it will be expensive for HBO, for certain, but I really do think we’ll get a 2- part final season, if only because GoT is now their unquestioned tentpole. Maybe not 10 & 10, but perhaps 8 & 7?

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    15. I understand there has to be a tiered system, given the huge ensemble cast. It does irk me a bit that Sophie and Maisie are in Tier B, given they’ve been with the show since the beginning and had more or about the same screen time as some of the elite A’ List. Minor I know, but just because they’re younger, doesn’t mean that they don’t deserve the same salary as say Kit or Emilia, both of whom had little acting experience prior to the first season.

      Nevertheless, glad the principal characters will be back for Season 7.

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    16. Greenjones,

      All these Telltale teasers so far made me REALLY, really excited! I can’t wait for it!
      Especially because -if all the speculations are true- I’m more than happy about the plot/storylines/characters the teasers are talking about 😉

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    17. Andrew: There’s a lot still up in the air, for certain, but networks absolutely do this all the time.

      All of those examples involved filming within the allowable span of the contract.

      The show could make more episodes and aire them at different points (contracts don’t address airing dates, generally). But what they can’t do is run the show’s normal production cycle and claim that it’s one season (i.e., have everybody come back for more filming at the end of July, film through December). A “split season” would have to be filmed within the alotted year.

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    18. I see no benefits of season 7 being split into 2 parts.

      Let it end i say, let it end and may GRRM be punished for all his traveling, conventions and the lack of desire to finish the books.

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    19. Sean C.,

      Shows delay starts of seasons all the time and also extend filming over normal production schedules all the time.

      The actors are paid on a per episode basis so they are compensated for any extra episodes that the show chooses to make. As I’ve stated, because it’s the final year, the established production schedule can be blown up since they don’t have to come back again and start a new season up afterwards. The main concern with the production schedule was how quickly into pre-production (breaking and writing the scripts) D&D had to get into after the end of post-production on the season before. When you don’t need to start pre-production, you have more time for everything else.

      This is standard operating procedure now for cable shows in their final season so I’m not sure why there’ this much pushback for something with clear evidence existing.

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    20. Sean C.,

      You’re assuming Season 7 would have to be filmed in its entirety in Fall/Winter 2016 on the normal production schedule, but I just don’t think that’s the case. Breaking Bad knew it was split into 2 parts for the final year, so they took a lengthy delay between halves. On the other hand, Mad Men filmed its final batch all at once and shelved the back half for a full year until next Spring. I think it’s safe to assume D&D have every feasible option available to them at this point.

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    21. For those wondering about the possibility for an extended final season for Game of Thrones, it would obviously be great for the fans and allow the show to cover the endgame of the series in greater detail. I would love to see it. But unfortunately, it may not be as clear cut as many people imagine. The difficulty lies in the murky distinction of seasons vs. years vs. productions cycles, actor compensation, and the additional production like VFX strains that come with a show this big.

      Consider Breaking Bad – the most famous recent and frequently-cited example of show splitting its final season. My understanding of it (and if I’m wrong, someone please correct me) is that all of the main Breaking Bad series regulars were all contracted to work under a six-year deal that’s basically the industry standard for cable shows (broadcast networks operate differently, and generally on a much higher scale). So whether or not Breaking Bad called its final eight episodes Season 5.2/5b or Season 6, those actors were locked down.

      The difference was that the actors’ contracts guaranteed them a raise at a certain percentage with each new season of the show. To avoid having to pay that escalator, AMC and Sony ordered a final season of 16 episodes and split it into eight episodes blocks that they would then air one year apart (remember that BB didn’t become a massive hit until it’s final season started airing, and AMC does not have a reputation for being financially magnanimous.). The reason that they were able to do this is because all episodes in Season 5 were produced within the same cycle. Vince Gilligan and the actors did take a break in between writing and filming the first eight episodes and the final eight episodes, but they were still able to produce all 16 episodes within the same calendar year – allowing them qualify as a single season. When considering how they were able to accomplish this in a relatively timely fashion, it’s worth noting that Breaking Bad filmed almost entirely in one, tax-friendly location (Albuquerque, New Mexico), had a much smaller regular cast, and involved significantly less post-production and VFX than Game of Thrones requires.

      Theoretically, a network could order 50-60 episodes of a show, produce them all at once, and call it a single “season” – thereby avoid giving their actors a raise every year. But that’s a pretty blatant exploitation of the system, and most actors would either refuse to work under such conditions, or they would have a compelling case for legal action/arbitration/whatever. To be fair, the model does technically exist, and an example of it would be 10/90 model that FX has used for Charlie Sheen’s “Anger Management” and a few other less-successful (but equally bad) shows. The network orders 10 episodes out of the gate with the condition that if the show reaches certain ratings thresholds, it will automatically trigger an order for 90 more episodes – all of which are technically part of the same production cycle or ‘second season’. The catch is that those shows are all fairly cheap to make – they’re shot on standing sets with minimal post-production work, allowing them to be produced quickly and cheaply. It’s worth noting that Anger Management has not been that successful since that 90-episode backorder was triggered, and the 10/90 model appears to be going the way of the Dodo.

      The barrier to such creative accounting with Game of Thrones is that Benioff and Weiss have made it pretty clear that the production team isn’t capable of making more than 10 episodes in one year without sacrificing the quality that we’ve come to expect from the show. Furthermore, Game of Thrones is shot out of sequence like a movie and is filmed in multiple expensive locations across Europe. To accommodate this, all episodes of the season must written in advance, and after shooting’s completed, there’s a ton of post-production work (VFX, sound, etc) to complete. As such, the cast and crew would have to tax themselves even further in order to churn out the additional episodes within the same production cycle. Even if HBO intended to keep half of the episodes on the shelf and air them a year later, those final episodes would still have to be produced within the original time frame covered by the actors’ contracts. If the producers couldn’t meet that deadline, then HBO would likely have to choose between one of two less-than-ideal options:

      A) Benioff and Weiss focus on completing all shooting and post-production of the first 7-8 episodes first so that they’re ready for the release date. But unless they could immediately go back to work and complete the final 7-8 episodes of that extended final season order within the allotted time frame, a case could be made for those episodes to be considered a new season – one for which the actors would be eligible for a raise. The problem? Those actors would now no longer under contract, and all of HBO’s leverage would be gone. If the Tier A actors decided to band together and ask for $1 million/episode apiece, HBO would have to pay up – or risk having them walk.

      B) Benioff and Weiss try to write, shoot, and complete post-production all 14-16 episodes at once (within the same production cycle). But if, as seems likely, they wouldn’t be ready to air in April, then HBO would be forced to delay the show. It’s unclear how this would affect the actors’ contracts, if there would be any penalties involved, etc.

      Option B is indeed plausible, but there are numerous unanswered questions that we don’t have the answers to. Those questions mostly involve the precise language of the actors’ contracts and how detrimental it would be to HBO’s bottom line to keep their most popular show off the air for an extended period of time. I don’t have the answers to those questions, but I guarantee that such discussions have either already happened or will take place very soon.

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    22. King Tommen:
      Shows delay starts of seasons all the time and also extend filming over normal production schedules all the time.

      Yes, but that never goes to the point of pushing into what would otherwise be a whole new season.

      If it was possible to do that, nobody would ever need to renegotiate a contract, because the show could just declare that season 6 would be filmed in two parts and get season 7.

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    23. Nezzer,

      Not officialy confirmed, but his shooting schedule is perfectly in line with the GoT schedule, particularly the KL cast. Also, he confirmed it would air in Spring 2015, and he apologised for staying off Twitter for a couple of weeks, that coincided exactly with the Dubrovnik shooting. So pretty clear.

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    24. Patchy Face,

      I’ve played TWD and Wolf Among Us. Telltale is rarely accurate with their time estimates. Not saying it won’t be out this year, but they haven’t had a great track record recently.

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    25. Alfie Allen’s Theon Greyjoy will live through this entire story/show. Mark it.

      What is Dead May Never Die.

      (However 7 holy seasons means his nuncles are like to be nonexistent or near enough to make no matter.)

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    26. Really? people are still talking about 8 seasons?
      You can call it Season 7 parts 1 and 2 if you like, but that would still be 8 seasons, and they would have to pay the actors/actresses for that 8th season.
      Does anyone think for one second that the contracts aren’t quite specific about the seasons themselves? how many episodes, etc?
      I wouldn’t think so – contracts are a bit more specific than what would allow them to just keep filming and split it up into two.
      And D&D have been quite up front and adamant that they only want to do 7 seasons. The way they’ve been moving it forward, they can do so easily – they’re not gurm, after all – they know how to trim it sensibly to get it to fit.

      Personally, I’m thrilled that it’s going to be 7 seasons, not 8. an 8th season would be overkill at the very best, a damned shame with too much filler and a travesty at the worst.

      Go D&D! Go HBO! Finish this baby so that the author can finally find out how it ends 😉

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    27. What about the other actors ??? are they all going to ……………X !! I refuse to Believe that !!!!!!!!!!!! Stannis the mannis !! Davos seaworth !!!!! and Ser Jorah Mormont !!!!!!!!£

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    28. For those wondering at the lack of reported extensions for Gwendoline Christie, Liam Cunningham, or Stephen Dillane, remember those actors joined the cast in season 2. Someone with more knowledge of the business can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think their original 6-year contracts should keep them retained through the seventh season.

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    29. Lady Nym,

      RELAX! You freak out way too easily. Stannis,Jorah,Theon,Melisandre, and Davos’ actors are almost certainly on the B-list of actors, or else some of them may not have cared to renegotiate their deals. I believe the characters who entered in season 2(Dragonstone crew and Margaery) signed six year deals. And would it really shock you if any one of them dies in TWOW?

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    30. It’s pretty funny that people are actually taking this to mean that all these actors will be in the show until season 7.

      But what’s even funnier is that some people are expecting HBO to throw their business sense down the toilet just so they wouldn’t risk the possibility that some fans will think they’re spoiled for who is going to survive. LOL

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    31. Shagga Likes Axes,

      Yes. Also, it really wouldn’t shock me if some of the other actors didn’t bother with renegotiating their deals like Natalie Dormer and others did. It’s said that the 5 A-list actors negotiated together, so as to have more leverage.

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    32. Annara Snow,

      I’m pretty sure every actor, including ones that were killed off like Richard Madden,Michelle Fairley, and Jack Gleeson all originally signed standard 6 year contracts. This is no different. This news spoils nothing.

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    33. Honestly, I like the idea of a movie to conclude everything.
      Seven seasons plus a movie seems pretty good to me. I hope they do that.

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    34. Mickey2093:
      An 8th season would be overkill at the very best, a damned shame with too much filler and a travesty at the worst.

      Well we don’t *know* that, though I agree 7 seasons is much more likely, and a good number.

      I’m reading less into the specific actors that are or aren’t mentioned, and more into to the fact that this essentially confirms s7 will happen (not that I had any doubt it would, but the “confirmation” is very nice).

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    35. A lot of people are making assumptions here. I’ve worked for a studio and let me tell you, they don’t contract by the “season,” they contract by a specific number of episodes. So in this “seventh season” contract, they will all have negotiated for a maximum number of episodes, with options to reduce based upon production necessity, and separate options for an increase (which, as it’s three years away, is unlikely to have been included.)

      It’s quite possible HBO negotiated a per-episode clause ‘up to and including’ a set number that would include an expanded final year.

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    36. Even as a hardcore Stannisite, I do not expect him to make it to the last page of ASOIF or the last episode of GoT.

      He needs to die a noble death of self-sacrifice, perhaps against the White Walkers. I’m afraid he might get offed by Melisandre, perhaps to resurrect Jon, or burned by Dany’s dragons. (at the end of the day this IS mass market fiction…)

      Remember “I never asked for this… large or small we must do our duty”

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    37. Mickey2093:
      Really?people are still talking about 8 seasons?

      Personally, I’m thrilled that it’s going to be 7 seasons, not 8.an 8th season would be overkill at the very best, a damned shame with too much filler and a travesty at the worst.

      Go D&D!Go HBO!Finish this baby so that the author can finally find out how it ends

      Amen!

      It´s obvious the old man GRRM is wating for Cogman to do his work for him.

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    38. Michelle Fairley interviewed in the upcoming issue of Brazil’s CartaCapital. It’s about Resurrection but they did throw the predictable GOT question in there. Roughly translated:

      JC: Did you hear about fans’ reactions to the omission of Lady Stoneheart?
      MF (laughs): Yes, I have. I tried to avoid it as much as possible, but yes I have.
      JC: Can you tell us a bit about that decision?
      MF: No, I can’t.
      JC: I suppose there’s little hope in seeing you back in GOT?
      MF: I don’t know. I’ve no idea. (Laughs). Ask me again next year.

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    39. Patchy Face,

      A market in Volantis or Meereen, I assume?

      For some reason my immediate assumption was “Volantis”, even though it’s bound to be a minor locale, probably appearing for one or two episodes at most. Don’t know why…

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    40. You guys are silly if you think HBO will end GOT in 30 episodes. True Blood had 80 episodes, Sopranos had 86 and GOT is going to have 70? Game of thrones makes HBO a lot of money especially from the merchandising. A lot of characters will also be dead by the final episodes so that saves money. 4 books in 30 episodes is not something I see working. I think GRRM should also realize he prob wont finish the books in any decent time frame and should do the opposite of what hes been doing by writing more episodes on the show that way it can still be partially his story. I feel that George is really not that involved in the show and its going to cause the show to suffer at some point. I personally get mad when the show tries to cut things because I know the show is the show and the books are the books but I feel as if we will never see all the books come out. I bet you George will not finish in 7 books it will be 8 at least. He too often underestimates how much he is going to write.

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    41. Incidentally, the list of actors with most screentime in the show so far goes (thanks to the person who compiled it on Westeros http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/94295-a-game-of-screentime/

      1. Peter Dinklage (Tyrion Lannister) – 222:39 (1,2,3,4; 36)
      2. Kit Harington (Jon Snow) – 170:34 (1,2,3,4; 32)
      3. Emilia Clarke (Daenerys Targaryen) – 157:08 (1,2,3,4; 33)
      4. Maisie Williams (Arya Stark) – 136:06 (1,2,3,4; 33)
      5. Lena Headey (Cersei Lannister) – 131:44 (1,2,3,4; 36)
      6. Sophie Turner (Sansa Stark) – 121:25 (1,2,3,4; 31)
      7. Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jaime Lannister) – 110:24 (1,2,3,4; 28)
      8. Alfie Allen (Theon Greyjoy) – 96:25 (1,2,3,4; 26)
      9. Sean Bean (Eddard Stark) – 94:35 (1; 9)
      10. Michelle Fairley (Catelyn Stark) – 91:14 (1,2,3; 25)

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    42. Shagga Likes Axes,

      Liam Cunningham and Carice van Houten confirmed they were given a six-year contract when joining the show, yes.

      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      That is not true. Michelle Fairley and Richard Madden signed a three-year contract, actually. They found out about the RW because of that contract (as opposed to other cast members’ contract)

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    43. daario greyjoy,

      Season 5 is already adapting AFFC and ADWD. We already know this, based on filming and casting reports (Yezzan, Daznak’s Pit, Cersei’s Walk, and a large etcetera.) Some storylines may tag behind and some may go a bit beyond ADWD, but basically the two books will be adapted next season. It’ll not even be as jam-packed as it seems, though, since a good chunk of AFFC and some of ADWD was already in Season 4: anything with Daenerys after the conquest of Meereen in episode 5, except for Jorah’s exile; everything with Bran; all of Brienne and Sansa after the wedding; all of Reek and the Boltons; Stannis coming to an agreement with the Bank of Braavos; and I’m sure I’m forgetting some things. Then, Season 6 has to adapt one book, and season 7 another. How is that unrealistic in any way?

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    44. Hodor’s Bastard:
      Annara Snow,

      Cool stats. I have seen the thorough list previously up through S3. Where did you find one with S4 included?

      Westeros. I posted the link in the previous post. The thread has lists for all 4 seasons separately and together in the OP.

      Mine is the Furry:
      Robert,

      Yes. In the flashbacks.

      I can’t wait to see her time-travel to talk to little Cersei in flashbacks!

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    45. Hodor’s Bastard:
      Annara Snow,

      Cool stats. I have seen the thorough list previously up through S3. Where did you find one with S4 included?

      Westeros. I posted the link in the previous post. The thread has lists for all 4 seasons separately and together in the OP.

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    46. João,

      Why can’t she comment on the “decision”, unless the “decision” to omit her is false in the first place? All her interviews are cagey as hell, it’s pretty obvious there’s something going on.

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    47. Annara Snow,

      I’m very familiar with that stat thread on Westeros but it only discusses up thru S3. I think the S4 stats appeared on another thread. Just not finding it. But thanks for the info.

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    48. I’ve the read the entire string of comments, and, I’m my opinion, this post hits the nail on the head. I agree absolutely, HBO isn’t worried about the cost of stringing out Season “7” because a lot of characters are gonna get wacked. GRRM, God love him, will never finish the books; I’ve said many times (on the old site) that GRRM should stop writing books and jump into the scripts full-time. His dialogue is the best.

      daario greyjoy:
      You guys are silly if you think HBO will end GOT in 30 episodes. True Blood had 80 episodes, Sopranos had 86 and GOT is going to have 70? Game of thrones makes HBO a lot of money especially from the merchandising. A lot of characters will also be dead by the final episodes so that saves money. 4 books in 30 episodes is not something I see working. I think GRRM should also realize he prob wont finish the books in any decent time frame and should do the opposite of what hes been doing by writing more episodes on the show that way it can still be partially his story. I feel that George is really not that involved in the show and its going to cause the show to suffer at some point. I personally get mad when the show tries to cut things because I know the show is the show and the books are the books but I feel as if we will never see all the books come out. I bet you George will not finish in 7 books it will be 8 at least. He too often underestimates how much he is going to write.

        Quote  Reply

    49. Hoyti Von Totiy:
      I see no benefits of season 7 being split into 2 parts.

      Let it end i say, let it end and may GRRM be punished for all his traveling, conventions and the lack of desire to finish the books.

      You are just a whiny little troll!

      Kidding. Just wanted to see how it felt. Feels dirty and shameful.

        Quote  Reply

    50. Robert,

      Hehe. You guys are funny.

      I’m not saying she’s definitely not in. But that’s kind of the point. How can you be so sure about something like that based on the flimsiest of evidence? It’s getting kind of ridiculous now. Don’t expect her and you will not be disappointing if she doesn’t appear. And is she does, nice surprise for you. Anything else is meaningless speculation based on nothing.

        Quote  Reply

    51. Hodor’s Bastard:
      Annara Snow,

      I’m very familiar with that stat thread on Westeros but it only discusses up thru S3. I think the S4 stats appeared on another thread. Just not finding it. But thanks for the info.

      Ah sorry, that was a wrong link. I posted the correct link in another post, but it’s awaiting moderation, so I’ll just tell you in the meantime to look for “Game of Screentime – season 4” in the General GoT section on Westeros.

        Quote  Reply

    52. Luka Nieto,

      I’ve been around long enough to know when an actor knows he’s out of a project, he’ll just say “Yeah, my time with that show is done” or something of the sort. Are you seriously trying to tell me Fairley’s “I don’t know” and “I’ve no idea” and “I can’t talk about that” are normal comments of someone who has definitely left a show behind? Because I have trouble seeing that.

        Quote  Reply

    53. Hodor’s Bastard,

      If you still haven’t found it here is the link:
      http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/112748-a-game-of-screentime-season-4/

      Here are the top 10 characters for Season 4, but the link has 72 different characters:
      1. Tyrion Lannister – 56:24
      2. Jon Snow – 43:53
      3. Cersei Lannister – 41:44
      4. Jaime Lannister – 38:59
      5. Sansa Stark – 35:43
      6. Tywin Lannister – 33:11
      7. Oberyn Martell – 30:07
      8. Daenerys Targaryen – 29:33
      9. Sandor Clegane – 29:23
      10. Arya Stark – 25:55

        Quote  Reply

    54. Robert:
      Luka Nieto,

      I’ve been around long enough to know when an actor knows he’s out of a project, he’ll just say “Yeah, my time with that show is done” or something of the sort. Are you seriously trying to tell me Fairley’s “I don’t know” and “I’ve no idea” and “I can’t talk about that” are normal comments of someone who has definitely left a show behind? Because I have trouble seeing that.

      Sounds a lot like Rory McCann’s answers to a similar question in his post-S4 interviews.

        Quote  Reply

    55. SoMuchForOldTown,

      Why would D&D allow George more control over the show? The books are the books and the show is the show. Season 5 is the turning point, and with the omissions of a few key story arcs, George likely would get confused trying to keep things straight. I would like to see him get back to writing an episode in the final two seasons, but anything more than that won’t happen, and it shouldn’t. I just want him to finish TWOW and have it released prior to season 6 airing.

        Quote  Reply

    56. It was already known they would be doing 7 seasons…the thing i luv about next season is (from the jump we knew it would be the most differant from books on account of GRRM 2 HUUUGE books that split the characters) is that book readers are going crazy trying to figure out what is changing what is cut and what is exactly being adapted. Everyone needs to chill until s5 is done. By that point it will be more known what is in the shows future for s6 and just how much of TWOW will be in it. I think from the start D&D knew it would take 2 seasons to fully adapt both AFFC & ADWD thats why they signed S5 & S6 together probably changing timelines and splitting the new charcters and most climatic events between the 2. With S5 more on dorne/danny/cersei and filler for the rest still stayin on pointwith the story. I highly doubt “For The Watch “Scene Happens in s5 and almost certain it will happen in s6 along with ramsay wedding and intro to Euron/griffs( hopefully) I highly S6 & s7 both after ” for the watch” showing new material while theres a chance TWOW isnt even out. People blame D & D for there changes and filler but they need to put filler in to kill time while GRRM finally finishes. I bet this show ends with TWOW and they adapt ADOS with motion pictures (big fingers crossed)

        Quote  Reply

    57. FOR THE WATCH,

      Most, if not all of AFFC/ADWD will be finished with by the end of season 5. Season 6 will be full bore into TWOW material. D&D have even said that there will be some TWOW material in season 5.

        Quote  Reply

    58. FOR THE WATCH:
      It was already known they would be doing 7 seasons…the thing i luv about next season is (from the jump we knew it would be the most differant from books on account of GRRM 2 HUUUGE books that split the characters)is that book readers are going crazy trying to figure out what is changing what is cut and what is exactly being adapted. Everyone needs to chill until s5 is done. By that point it will be more known what is in the shows future for s6 and just how much of TWOW will be in it. I think from the start D&D knew it would take 2 seasons to fully adapt both AFFC & ADWD thats why they signed S5 & S6 together probably changing timelines and splitting the new charcters and most climatic events between the 2. With S5 more on dorne/danny/cersei and filler for the rest still stayin on pointwith the story. I highly doubt “For The Watch “Scene Happens in s5 and almost certain it will happen in s6 along with ramsay wedding and intro to Euron/griffs( hopefully)I highlyS6 & s7 both after ” for the watch”showing new material while theres a chance TWOW isnt even out. People blame D & D for there changes and filler but they need to put filler in to kill time while GRRM finally finishes. I bet this show ends with TWOW and they adapt ADOS with motion pictures (big fingers crossed)

      There’s no chance in hell that they’ll stretch AFFC/ADWD into two seasons, with none of the characters getting satisfactory resolutions to their season-long arcs, and then cram the final two books (the culmination and resolution of the story that AFFC/ADWD were setting up) into just one season. Neither of these things makes any sense.

      There’s also no way there will be any movies.

        Quote  Reply

    59. Annara Snow,

      Which means nothing because theres a good chance that his future plot line with be fulfilled since D&D included the operation scene in S4 and being secretive is justified. However the time for LS came and went. But I do think MF will be back for Brans flashback/vision scenes and that’s why she won’t comment.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Adam,

      Can’t comment on the decision to leave LS out, which is totally different. When asked if she will return to GoT, she says to ask next year. That’s when we will have S6 news and Brans return. With full on visions and flashbacks.

      Trust me, I’d hate to see LS as much as anyone else and I’m estatic its been cut.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Mine is the Furry,

      I disagree that the time for LS has came and went. She is not needed until she intersects with Brienne’s story. Whether that happens on the show, I don’t know. I’d say it’s still 50/50, but there is still a chance for her to appear. Jaime giving Brienne Oathkeeper and her going on a mission to uphold their oaths to Lady Catelyn seems like a waste without LS. Bringing up the oath they swore to Cat in nearly every episode could be intentional to keep it in viewers’ minds.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Mine is the Furry:
      Adam,

      Can’t comment on the decision to leave LS out, which is totally different. When asked if she will return to GoT, she says to ask next year.That’s when we will have S6 news and Brans return.With full on visions and flashbacks.

      Trust me, I’d hate to see LS as much as anyone else and I’m estatic its been cut.

      Season 6 is also when Walder Frey and Edmure may finally return (they sure are not returning this year), and when Jaime will presumably finally be out of Dorne.

      The idea that LS would be in season 4 finale was based on the idea that they would use her as the shocking twist at the end of the season. If they had done that, it would have been some time until she appeared again. Less likely was the idea that Brienne would meet her at the end of season 4, and then have the longest trip ever before she finds Jaime, who would still be in King’s Landing for several episodes in season 5.

      Also, there is no indication that season 6 will be Bran’s return, since it’s not clear that Bran is going anywhere in the meantime.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Tyrion Pimpslap: I disagree that the time for LS has came and went. She is not needed until she intersects with Brienne’s story.

      Indeed, there is a basic dictum of story-telling: Chekhov’s gun. If you are going to hang a gun in one act, then you had darned well better fire it in a subsequent act. As the LS gun doesn’t get fired in any of the material being adapted for Season 5, it would have been poor story-telling to mount it on the wall.

      We saw a proper mounting of a gun at the end of last season when we see the origins of

      Ser Robert Strong

      . The big difference is that the RS gun will, no doubt, get shot somewhat in Season 5, whereas the LS gun would not have been.

        Quote  Reply

    64. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      No, the timing for LS has passed.

      Imagine for a moment that the LS reveal didn’t happen in SoS epilogue, but instead happened in ADWD. Catelyn killed in one book, and she stays officially dead for two books before she is resurrected again? It would have felt tacked on and removed from the rest of her story, and cheapened her death even more than LS’s existence already has.

      I think that’s kind of what it would be like if LS showed up in Season 5 or 6. I hate the LS storyline, but one thing going for it in the books is that she is resurrected in the same book in which she died. We got enough material between her death and he resurrection for the death to feel momentous, but the reveal hapened soon enough after she died that it didn’t feel removed from the rest of her story. Show can’t do that at this point, the longer they wait the more removed and convenient the resurrection will feel if it happens.

        Quote  Reply

    65. MF also said she’s going home now that she’s finished Resurrection. Of course, home for her just happens to be Belfast.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Hodor Targaryen,

      The show has rearranged the timeline and delayed character appearances in several instances, both when it made sense and when it really didn’t (Ramsay), so “this is how it worked best in the books” isn’t really such a strong argument for how it will happen in the show.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Hodor Targaryen,

      Not to mention that there was no mention of the Brotherhood in S4. I would think that a band of outlaws and a zombie would be Prime Time newsworthy and something Tywin would be concerned about. To have

      LS appear in S6

      when the show timeline is moving forward, wouldn’t make sense. The books can jump around, but I don’t see this series going that route.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      Mine is the Furry,

      I disagree that the time for LS has came and went. She is not needed until she intersects with Brienne’s story. Whether that happens on the show, I don’t know. I’d say it’s still 50/50, but there is still a chance for her to appear. Jaime giving Brienne Oathkeeper and her going on a mission to uphold their oaths to Lady Catelyn seems like a waste without LS. Bringing up the oath they swore to Cat in nearly every episode could be intentional to keep it in viewers’ minds.

      I think a lot of people are going to be singing different tunes come next June (I agree with you completely).

      And as I mentioned before, the plot in the show with Beric Dondarrion’s rebirths at the hands of Thoros of Myr is completely wasted without the LS revelation. (Melisandre doing the same with a certain lord commander, something people have been predicting, could have been done with just dialogue, instead of having to cast these two roles.) I think we’re going to see a season of Brienne in the Riverlands, leading up to the moment you exactly note above. We shall see next spring. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    69. Adam,

      Taking hits on Frey’s with a freaky dame? If not then my point is still that if D&D go back to that plotline, it would have been discussed in S4. Unless they. change the revenge plot and just have her float around.

        Quote  Reply

    70. If the Telltale game linked above is tied in with the show cannon, could it be a potential indication that we will see the amazingness that is Deepwood Motte! ?

        Quote  Reply

    71. bran:
      There is no mention of eitherdillane and liam in your post and the article it seems

      just imagine the ragearound the forums if this is actually what happens

      Actually, I’m pretty sure (not 100%) that they and Carice signed 6 season contracts at the start of season 2 when they joined the main cast, so I don’t think they need an extension.

        Quote  Reply

    72. That wooden pisspot? 😉

      ctid:
      If the Telltale game linked above is tied in with the show cannon, could it be a potential indication that we will see the amazingness that is Deepwood Motte! ?

        Quote  Reply

    73. Adam,

      Just as the Ironborn were mentioned a couple times in S4. These mentions may function to hint at *blank* having a future role but unfortunately, they are not the best indicators as to the magnitude of those roles *blank* will play in future seasons. I hope we’ll see more of BwoB though.

      Robert: Robert

      Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. There’s no reason to make judgments with such conviction based on nothing.

        Quote  Reply

    74. Annara Snow,

      I was maybe not very clear, but I’m specifically talking about resurrecting a character. I’m fine with the show or the books leaving characters alone for a while, and sometimes that’s best. But if a character gets a death scene, but shows up alive later, said character needs to show up soon. Those kind of reversed deaths (whether they’re actual resurrections of characters or fake-out deaths like Bran’s in Clash of Kings) are already pretty manipulative of the audience, but people are more willing to forgive it/enjoy it if the death is shown to be a non death pretty soon afterwards. LS showing up in Season 5 or 6 is like Bran turning out to secretly be alive in the third book/season, is what I’m arguing.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      The force is strong within you, ser. I would agree with you regarding LS but I believe that D&D simply dropped the ball on their own Chekhov aspirations. They had some nice foreshadowing initially (oaths and namedropping, etc) but when it came to real steps toward a reveal (small council news, Freys disappearing, etc.), they flipped on us and sent Jaime south and Brienne to the Hound (which was ok).

      Jeb,

      Thanks, I had found it. Amazing work by that fan. I wonder if there is software that can do that or is it a manual bean counting effort with a stopwatch?

        Quote  Reply

    76. Mine is the Furry: To have LS appear in S6 when the show timeline is moving forward, wouldn’t make sense.

      Actually, the opposite is true: a TV series cannot have a character re-appear after being away unless he/she going to be part of the stories or plots again. (I’m assuming that she no longer is going to be part of the stories under any circumstance, but she could still be part of the plots.) The earliest that will be is season 6.

      We probably are dealing with a case of Martin’s plan not quite unfolding the way that he expected. At any rate, if one were editing what he has written up to this point, one would postpone LS’s unveiling (figurative and literal!) until the end of Dragons, as she wasn’t really relevant in Crows and Dragons. Remember, Chekhov originally wrote his famous dictum while reviewing someone else’s book!

      Now, as someone who write a lot of technical stuff, I can easily imagine how this would happen; however, Martin really compounded the problem by taking 14+ years to get back to her! Had the books continued at a one every 2-3 years pace, then I’m sure that it would feel less egregious, even if it really should have been the next book regardless of how long it took to get it out.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Hodor’s Bastard,

      I’m not even a fan of the LS character, but I am a big Jaime and Brienne fan, so I am unsure about what the show will do with those two without LS. They have to reunite at some point. It may well be too late for LS. I just hope they can find a satisfactory replacement storyline for Jaime and Brienne. I liked the Hound-Brienne fight. I’m less sure about Jaime in Dorne or anything Brienne does in season 5. She’s going to look like an even bigger failure in the show if she bumps into both Arya and Sansa and they still get away.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Wimsey: Actually, the opposite is true: a TV series cannot have a character re-appear after being away unless he/she going to be part of the stories or plots again.(I’m assuming that she no longer is going to be part of the stories under any circumstance, but she could still be part of the plots.)The earliest that will be is season 6.

      We probably are dealing with a case of Martin’s plan not quite unfolding the way that he expected.At any rate, if one were editing what he has written up to this point, one would postpone LS’s unveiling (figurative and literal!) until the end of Dragons, as she wasn’t really relevant in Crows and Dragons.Remember, Chekhov originally wrote his famous dictum while reviewing someone else’s book!

      Now, as someone who write a lot of technical stuff, I can easily imagine how this would happen; however, Martin really compounded the problem by taking 14+ years to get back to her!Had the books continued at a one every 2-3 years pace, then I’m sure that it would feel less egregious, even if it really should have been the next book regardless of how long it took to get it out.

      That’s not true. You cant move the story backwards without using flashbacks. And it wouldn’t make sense to have D&D propel the story forward to where things culminate in Mereen and then the following season go back to events taking place two season prior. Especially when there are only two more seasons to finish their story. I just don’t see that happening. D&D have removed most of the absurdity of GRRMs writing and I doubt they would add the most ridiculous character in the series in the final two seasons. What would LS be doing all this time when we catch up to current events? She obviously would have to be found by the B relatively soon after the events of the RW. So again, my point that there has been no mention of a Frey hating mob up to this point seems to indicate that it has been cut.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      More like 20/80. Best thing we can do is get over it, and maybe the show will surprise us. Same goes for Arianne and Greyjoy fans. The show won’t be made worse with their cutting, it won’t be made better, but also not worse. Season 5 is the time to forget the books even exist and enjoy it for what it is.

        Quote  Reply

    80. Hodor Targaryen:
      Annara Snow,

      I was maybe not very clear, but I’m specifically talking about resurrecting a character. I’m fine with the show or the books leaving characters alone for a while, and sometimes that’s best. But if a character gets a death scene, but shows up alive later, said character needs to show up soon. Those kind of reversed deaths (whether they’re actual resurrections of characters or fake-out deaths like Bran’s in Clash of Kings) are already pretty manipulative of the audience, but people are more willing to forgive it/enjoy it if the death is shown to be a non death pretty soon afterwards. LS showing up in Season 5 or 6 is like Bran turning out to secretly be alive in the third book/season, is what I’m arguing.

      And yet Theon was absent for two books, Sandor’s breathing status has been ambiguous since ASOS, and Benjen has been missing since early AGOT.

        Quote  Reply

    81. ctid,

      Take that sarcasm and shove it up your furry bum, you tommen! But yes, it does. The amazingness that is Deepwood Motte might be adapted in some way in the show, given that the game is supposedly set within the season 5 timeframe and given that all the quotes imply the story is set in the wolfswood involving the Iron Born and the Northerners (and probably Stannis).

        Quote  Reply

    82. I would have figured that those actors that were nobodies before GOT (Emilia Clarke, Kit Harrington) would have already been signed up the full max 7 years. In any case, great news for them, and great news for the show. giving it the ability to do a split season 7.

      On the down side, this probably clinches it that we won’t see more than 7 seasons, for those who were hoping for there to be more than 7.

        Quote  Reply

    83. Hodor’s Bastard: I believe that D&D simply dropped the ball on their own Chekhov aspirations. They had some nice foreshadowing initially

      Chekhov’s metaphorical gun and foreshadowing are two very different beasts. Chekhov was criticizing authors of novels and plays who made big deals of characters or things, and then never did anything with them. (A crime of which he was frequently guilty in his own works, by the way!)

      Now, there are a few big unfired guns on the show: but LS wouldn’t represent the firing of one of them. Indeed, this would be opposite: if he’d been reviewing or writing modern TV series, then Chekhov would have been very critical of bringing back a major character at the end of Season 4 and then not firing a major gun with that character in Season 5.

      That written, when they do get around to doing another R’hllor-enstein, then the audience has seen it. So, they won’t be committing the “Inverse Chekhov’s Gun” mistake that you see too often. (Of course, it might literally be Deus ex Machina even if it isn’t a figurative example, mightn’t it!) Regardless, however, they don’t even need to do anything more with this particular power of Red Priests: Chekhov’s guns need Chekhov’s walls, too, and the audience needs to see (and they have seen) that there is something “real” about this religion.

        Quote  Reply

    84. Hodor’s Bastard,

      I don’t think it’s entirely a red herring. The fact that

      Melly Sanders (who is in the perfect place to copy Thoros/Berric in the end of ADWD) actually witnessed it makes it a worthy piece of foreshadowing

      . Still sad to see

      LS cut, and I hope at least that the Brotherhood will reappear at some point for the sake of continuity (otherwise I’d think their inclusion in the first place was pointless).

        Quote  Reply

    85. On the LS subject, while I was quite shocked and disappointed at the time that it didn’t happen as the final scene in the season 4 finale, it makes sense to delay the appearance of it given the content of AFFC and ADWD. Those books have very few climatic or shocking moments. One could argue there is only one such scene (“for the watch”) and said moment I would argue was an absurdly bad decision on GRRM’s part anyway. From the other end, ASOS has tons and tons of such moments, so they didn’t really need the LS one. Especially whereas LS’s part in the storyline doesn’t come up again for quite a while. I think its perfectly reasonable to save that moment for season 5. I’m not going to get my hopes up too high after being burned with the finale, but I’m definitely not going to completely discount it like many have.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Hodor’s Bastard,

      Hodor’s Bastard:
      Maybe D&D prefer red herrings instead of guns…

      heh, possibly: but given how reviled those are, I would tend to doubt it!

      On a side note, Martin himself will almost certainly get heavily criticized for red herrings after the whole series is done, just as Rowling did. This is not to say that either author actually committed this sin: but fans of both series become/became heavily invested on some fairly far-fetched ideas. In the case of HP, fans who were big proponents of ideas that didn’t pan out got very upset about the “red herrings” that fooled them: and I suspect that Martin fans who propound things like

      Jeyne Westerling is pregnant with Robb’s child and in hiding, or Robb’s Will is well known to all the northern men, etc.,

      are going to get labelled the same thing. Of course, these things actually were there for different reasons (character development, re-hanging the “who is Jon’s mother?” gun, etc. ).

      I suspect that the TV series will get less flack for this because I think some of the obvious things that will get called Red Herrings in the future already have been cut. (By comparison, most of the things that HP fans later decried as red herrings never made it onto the screen.)

        Quote  Reply

    87. jentario,

      Yeah, as many have said….we have a conservation of resurrection activity in place in the show. We must not abuse the privilege!

      Mine is the Furry,

      Mr. Spock: Mr. Chekov, your tricorder readings are totally inefficient!
      Chekov: Uh, mind your own business! Uh, for your information I have a very high efficiency rating!
      Mr. Spock: Ensign, I will not have you address me in that tone of voice!
      Chekov: What do you want, violins?

        Quote  Reply

    88. Hodor’s Bastard All the more comical because it’s true: if you bring up Chekhov’s Guns on a Doctor Who group if the show is doing over-arching plots, then you will always get a few enraged Whovians pointing out that Star Trek was the worst SciFi series ever and thus we shouldn’t be using concepts based on it’s characters!

        Quote  Reply

    89. Annara Snow,

      I’m not talking about characters not showing up for a while. Reread my second post, I talking specifically about having a “death,” and then surprising the reader/audience by revealing that the character was either not really dead, or is resurrected. It’s manipulative writing to get someone to care about the death of a significant character, and then reveal that the death was not actually the final moment with that character. I don’t really think it’s ever a good idea to fake a death or resurrect a character, but if you’re going to do it, it’s better if the return of the supposedly dead character occurs in the same book or season that the “death” occurred.

      Theon: He didn’t die. I thought it was pretty clear he was captured at the end of book 2, and Roose confirmed it in Storm of Swords. We may have been curious about what was happening to Theon, but it’s not like we thought he was dead for two books only to be surprised he was alive the whole time when we got to ADWD.

      Sandor (and really all fake out deaths): I actually kind of hate George’s fake outs for the same reason why I hate resurrections (cheapens specific death scene and death in the series generally). But the difference between Sandor being left behind to die in SoS and Catelyn’s death is that Sandor’s death is purposefully ambiguous. I think if it’s written clearly as an open question, it’s not really as disappointing when it’s revealed, perhaps in another book or season, that one of the likely possibilities was true.

      Benjen: Has always been a very open question. If anything, the fact that he’s been gone but never found implies he’s alive. So his appearance wouldn’t be cheapening any death scene, since his death was never seen nor heavily implied.

      Trying to put this more simply, basically if you’re going to “kill” a character and have them come back in some way, you need to do it in the same book or season that you “kill” them. It’s not about taking a break from main characters, it’s about cheapening the death. If ASoIaF readers thought Catelyn was truly gone for the last half of Storm, all of Feast, and most of Dance before her resurrection was revealed, I doubt LS would be a very popular character. I think show viewers would feel similarly if LS showed up in season 5 or 6. If there was a time to pull off LS, it’s passed.

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    90. Wimsey:

      I suspect that the TV series will get less flack for this because I think some of the obvious things that will get called Red Herrings in the future already have been cut.(By comparison, most of the things that HP fans later decried as red herrings never made it onto the screen.)

      You touched on the single thing that concerns me about D&D’s plans for this ambitious show. I prefer to think that D&D are making selective decisions on plots to follow/change based on economics/logistics and not because the unselected plots don’t matter. Maybe they are staggering some plotlines (as some suggest), maybe not. D&D will make their way to the endgame with a subset of fastfood threads while GRRM will bring us a robust 10-course meal on our way to the ending. (fingers-crossed)

        Quote  Reply

    91. Annara Snow: There’s no chance in hell that they’ll stretch AFFC/ADWD into two seasons, with none of the characters getting satisfactory resolutions to their season-long arcs, and then cram the final two books (the culmination and resolution of the story that AFFC/ADWD were setting up) into just one season. Neither of these things makes any sense.

      There’s also no way there will be any movies.

      Technically they will stretch AFFC/ADWD into two seasons, but it will be S4 & S5, not (as FOR THE WATCH seems to believe) S5 & S6. Bran, Sansa, Brienne, & Reek storylines for Feast/Dance have already been included in S4 (with some nearly finished), while the Wall, King’s Landing, and Arya storylines seem to be covering Feast/Dance (and even dipping into Winds a bit) in S5. It seems to me that they’re basically sticking to a 1 book per season overall schedule, but they they had to shuffle things a bit in the middle section (3/4/5) because those books were divided up geographically rather than chronologically.

      This non-chronological book structure is most obvious with the viewpoint character splitting in Feast & Dance, but it had actually already started in Storm/Feast. The Kingsmoot storyline from Feast was chronologically already in progress at the time of the Red Wedding. Arya heard about Balon’s death before the Hound captured her, and then covered a pretty large stretch of rain-drenched Riverlands before the Red Wedding, while the Ironborn didn’t let Euron sit on the Seastone Chair for long before they challenged him. Also before the Red Wedding, Robb & Catelyn discussed Balon’s death as well, and their expectation that Victarion and his captains would leave Moat Cailin to challenge Euron.

      Robb’s plan to retake Moat Cailin:
      “Three hosts will leave the Twins, but only two will reach Moat Cailin. Mine own battle will melt away into the Neck, to reemerge on the Fever. If we move swiftly once my uncle’s wed, we can all be in position by year’s end. We will fall upon the Moat from three sides on the first day of the new century, as the ironmen are waking with hammers beating at their heads from the mead they’ll quaff the night before.”

      The day of their planned attack also happens to be the day of the Purple Wedding. Obviously, the Greyjoy timeline has been modified (Balon is still alive in the show), but that makes sense if they’re basically combining books 3/4/5 and reshuffling the content into seasons 3/4/5 in a way that’s more suitable to TV.

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    92. Wimsey,

      Great analysis. This has always made sense to me because

      I suspect Jon will be the next revival we see

      If that is indeed the case, then there is no reason to add other, more trivial revivals–the gun is already cocked and loaded, so to speak. In fact, keeping with Chekhov’s gun, showing the LSH subplot would take away from the impact of the above spoiler and essentially “ruin” it, assuming it does happen of course.

      The BB writers did an excellent job of abiding by the principle, and I think it definitely reflects (at least in part) the show’s well-deserved reputation.

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    93. This is getting a little crazy…

      I know other people feel differently but I am not particularly inclined to read into Michelle’s statements to mean that she will be back as LS. Nor would I actually want that on the show, I found it strange in the books (personal opinion).

      My own thoughts:

      LS will be cut
      Jaime and Brienne, if they meet again, can be brought together a different way.
      If they need to ressurrect Jon via Melisandre, this is achieved with max impact on the show without LS. Beric/Thoros has set the scene and that’s fine. I’m sure Mel can remind us about the power of her red god at several points during S5 to lay more groundwork for this.
      All Iron islands subplot things will happen as news brought in from afar, rather than shown at Pyke. Balon needs to die still, I’m hoping we will get word of this in S5. With or without deepwood motte, Asha/Yara and Theon will stay alive and be brought together via Stannis in the North.

      Things from the North I want that I hope (against hope?) we might get in S5:
      Wyman and Frey pies
      Mance infiltrating Winterfell

      Lingering questions:
      Where the F is Rickon? Seriously…
      What is going to happen to Sam/Gilly/Aemon on the show? Going to Oldtown? Guess that depends on what happens to Sam in TWOW and how relevant that is for the endgame.. but surely Sam has to leave before Jon gets daggered or all unsullied would question why he did not protect Jon, his BFF.

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    94. Hodor’s Bastard: I prefer to think that D&D are making selective decisions on plots to follow/change based on economics/logistics and not because the unselected plots don’t matter.

      Unfortunately, I think that you are wishing in vain! Remember, their goal is to produce the best TV show that they can. Regardless of what some purists allege, they clearly are succeeding in producing one of the best TV shows out there, as demonstrated by the continuous critical acclaim.

      To this end, they are going to cut out plot lines that do not contribute greatly to the overall story.

      However, and this is a key point that fans of books (and not just SoI&F!) forget: nobody that matters in their world is judging B&W’s product using the books for comparison; adaptations (like “originals”) are judged solely against other TV series or movies.

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    95. Eh, of those eight only Jaime, Cersei and Margaery may be somewhat spoilery. The other five were really a given for last season.

        Quote  Reply

    96. Jaime’s girl: I know other people feel differently but I am not particularly inclined to read into Michelle’s statements to mean that she will be back as LS. Nor would I actually want that on the show, I found it strange in the books (personal opinion).

      One other thing to consider is that

      they don’t need Michelle to do LS, save for a final “reveal.”

      There is no reason why they couldn’t just have a woman in a veil (almost a shroud!) who whispers hoarsely and indistinctly in a few scenes. If and when LS becomes known to one of the principal protagonists (in particular, Sansa or Arya), then unveil her. “Who” she is can be a mystery: and, yes, most of the TV audience will not bother to find out because, well, why bother?

      Here is the big caveat on all of this: like all of the rest of you and unlike B&W, I don’t know what is coming up in WoW. I do not know when or where LS will actually become important to the story, and I can state that I really do not know if she will. (I’ll be a little disappointed in Martin if she’s not: but I also realize that it’s been 14 years since he wrote that, and his plans might well have changed.) Like all bridges, it should be crossed when one arrives at it!

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    97. Wimsey:
      To this end, they are going to cut out plot lines that do not contribute greatly to the overall story.

      This is a great show with many deserved accolades, no one is denying that. However, with all due respect, I will never accept your assertion above. To believe that, one must basically accept that everything they produce from here on out is Sullied spoiler for the endgame. What about the red herrings, loaded guns and foreshadowing that tease the audience (that we recently discussed)? Are you throwing that out the proverbial window now? What about the goofy show-only scenes they insert that have gone nowhere (just to get certain characters screen time) instead of adding layers of complexity? It’s a logistical/economic game they are playing now and some major plot-enhancing threads are being left for GRRM to noodle out.

      I am forever inclined (possessed? fatally optimistic?) to believe that there is a serious, if not contractual, balance between what is pursued onscreen and what is saved for our imagination via the written word. 🙂

      That being said, Happy Halloween to all you White Walkers!

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    98. I have a theory that Sansa will take up the roles of “Fake Arya”, Lady Dustin, and Wyman Manderly. That is the way I see the Winterfell arc working without those characters

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    99. Shagga Likes Axes,

      Oh, I think that’s the most interesting info in this thread. Makes sense to me, although I’m certainly not “entertainment industry” experienced. Makes me wonder more for Jorah though…. In MY brain he’s supposed to

      b left behind to try to complete Dany’s dream and rehabilitate Slaver’s Bay with Barry to atone for his sin of selling people into slavery in the first place…

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    100. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I dare say that every actor in GoT has seen their market value and career opportunities rise considerably as a result of their GoT exposure. I’m sure this experience has been rewarding aesthetically as well as financially for them, which is priceless. The “GoT effect” so to speak. I really don’t think it would be a hard sell to get any of them to commit to this show for more than 6 seasons, regardless of their raise. Lately, I’ve been seeing many of the actors in other movies, TV shows, plays, radio and other mediums throughout the entertainment spectrum. They are everywhere! In fact, have we ever heard of any work-related or salary issues from anyone within this enormous group of actors? They are doing something right, that is for sure. GoT is a launching pad and eagle’s nest for actors and ideas galore!

        Quote  Reply

    101. Turncloak,

      sorry but this speculation that Sansa will replace fArya does not make any sense. I cannot understand why people think that will happen, it will not.

      1. She is wanted for Joffrey’s murder and the Boltons are Lannister allies.
      2. She is already married, they cannot present her as “Sansa Stark” and what would be the benefit to them if they presented her as fArya if anybody else could fill that role? She doesn’t even looks like her sister, she has the Tully look not the northern one.
      3. The point of being Jeyne Poole the impersonator of Arya was because she was still half a child like Arya, had brown hair and lived in Winterfell before it’s burning. She knew Arya and she could impersonate her.
      4. Littlefinger would never willfully dispose one of his “trumps” to the Boltons, he was other plans for Sansa.
      5. Sansa has a storyline of her own and we have little information that she will meet Brienne in S5. She is not LF, she doesn’t have a teleport to travel to the Vale and North.
      6. Just because we don’t know her storyline in the books it doesn’t mean she will do nothing in the next season and they need her to fill spaces left by non cast characters in other complete difeferent storylines.

      I’m sorry if I sound rude but It is not the first time I see this theory around and it irks me a little because it’s not even a well-constructed theory.

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    102. ctid:
      Mine is the Furry,

      Check my link above for Chekov’s Gun(s), and you are not helping me in my claim to be just me.

      13-year-old Tommy Darmony, that is, who was apparently so traumatized by the stories of Nucky Thompson when he was 5 (?) that he came back to kill him. As a 22-year-old-13-year-old.

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    103. Fucking David and Dan man. Casting Jesus as a white guy when he clearly is middle eastern in the book. I was picturing more of a moorish, spaniard, native american like person. Fucking hacks totally ruined the bible for me.

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    104. Luka Nieto:
      Auren,

      … Read what he said again. And again, slowly.

      Got it now? It was a joke.

      Hopefully, but a few people had speculated that before and they were dead serious. Believe it or not.

      But this is the fandom where many people think that Howland Reed is High Sparrow, after all…

        Quote  Reply

    105. @Al Swearengen Pity i have to put up with your vomit inducing posts on this site too,but sometimes we can’t get all we want in life .

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    106. jentario,

      I see a Littlefinger

      arranging a marriage between Sansa and Ramsay with the goal of Sansa subjugating the north. She will be in the same precarious marriage that Jeyne Pool was in but she will have the viciousness and cunning of Lady Dustin and Wyman Manderly.

      I see Sansa being the one who arranges the Frey murders and delivers the Frey Pies. However, Roose will know that he needs Sansa like he needed lady Dustin, to keep the other northern lords in check.

      I can see this line being given to Sansa:
      “Lord Wyman is not the only one who lost kin at your Red Wedding, Frey. Do you imagine Whoresbane loves you any better? If you did not hold the Greatjon, he would pull out your entrails and make you eat them, as Lady Hornwood ate her fingers. Flints, Cerwyns, Tallharts, Slates … they all had men with the Young Wolf.”
      “House Ryswell too,” said Roger Ryswell.
      “Even the Stark’s of Winterfell” Lady Sansa parted her lips in a thin, feral smile. “The north remembers, Frey.”

      Also, the Theon/Sansa dynamic might be quite interesting if her strength along with Mance and his Wildling women are the ones that cause him to change from Reek back into Theon

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    107. Strider:
      Greatjon of Slumber,

      Tommy Darmody was 5 or older when the series started IIRC (1920 – season 1), final season happened in 1931. That makes him around 16. And I don’t recall Tommy mentioning anywhere in S5 he’s 22.

      The actor was 22. Tommy Darmony was born in 1917 per the Boardwalk Empire wiki, making him 14, and again, somehow, poisoned by “Me-Ma” in his 6 or so years on this earth that even as he grew older into a young teenager, living with nice people in Wisconsin, he dreamed of coming back to Atlantic City (by himself, at age 14), to kill Nucky. Uh-huh.

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    108. Jaime’s girl:
      This is getting a little crazy…

      Who is this Rickon person you are talking about?

      Ok i googled him…

      Gilly´s babe, Ser Dontos and Lancel had more lines of text then Rickon.

      Lancel > Ser Dontos > Monster > …. Moonboy > Rickon

      It´s just a shaggy dog in the end.

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    109. Oh and Cersei won’t find out that Sansa is

      married to Ramsay because Vary’s has left King’s Landing so she lacks reliable information. Mace Tyrell, who can tell his head apart from his ass will probably get confused and tell Cersei that it was Arya who married Ramsay 🙂

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    110. Cumsprite: You are just a whiny little troll!

      Kidding. Just wanted to see how it felt. Feels dirty and shameful.

      George “R&R” Martin is that you?

      It´s a kind of nickname i imagine GRRM would have and is doing … mixing cum with sprite to see what happens instead of writing the books.

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    111. Hodor’s Bastard: What about the red herrings, loaded guns and foreshadowing that tease the audience (that we recently discussed)? Are you throwing that out the proverbial window now?

      Not in the slightest, at least in terms of Chekhovian Guns. However, 1) Chekhov’s Gun was hung on a wall: some things are Walls, others are guns. 2) A gun is can be fired at more than one target.

      One simple rule of thumb is this: if a character or area was included, then was it included for it’s own sake: or to develop something about a different character. If the latter (e.g.,

      Yara/Asha’s failed rescue of Theon developing the fact that Theon is totally brainwashed now

      ), then it’s wall for a gun. It’s not a red herring, it’s not a gun, it’s not foreshadowing: it’s a foil that has already accomplished it’s purpose.

      Hodor’s Bastard:What about the goofy show-only scenes they insert that have gone nowhere (just to get certain characters screen time) instead of adding layers of complexity?

      In all cases of “show only” scenes of which I can think, the scene served to develop one or more protagonist (or at least an important secondary character) in some way. Again, that’s a good Chekhovian wall at the least. The development (especially if it is dynamic development) is the Gun. A good example of that is Tyrion’s and Jaime’s conversation about their slightly off cousin. That served to dynamically develop the relationship between the two, which in turn was a gun that got two firings: one, showing us just how manipulative and clever Tywin is, and two, Jaime’s rescue of Tyrion. It was extremely well-performed, too: and I don’t think that many viewers walked away feeling “they didn’t convince me that the brother’s care deeply for each other.

      (I also appreciated it for developing Martin’s theme of “the gods are mad and men are madder”: Tyrion’s observation that they were all just bugs being arbitrarily squashed very much fit in with that.)

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    112. I cannot provide a source for this because is direct information from an extra in Osuna, its not much but…. here we go:
      – he said

      he was a slave but one of his friends worked as a “one of the killers” in one of the scenes.
      – He also said that extras were quite impresed by Iain Glen fighting skills, that he is awesome and that he gave everything he had in the arena… literally. Apparently the poor man hurt his back one of the days and they had to stop filming for a while because he coudn’t even move. The extra also confirmed what we already know, that Jorah fights in the pit with multiple fighters.

      – They filmed in the bullring during 13 days and he thinks its going to be one of the most amazing scenes ever seen in the show.
      – David Nutter its incredible nice and he gave this T-shirt as a present to every extra:
      http://i.imgur.com/BUb2JRP.jpg (I found the image of the t-shirt in another extra instagram)

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    113. Wimsey:
      (I also appreciated it for developing Martin’s theme of “the gods are mad and men are madder”: Tyrion’s observation that they were all just bugs being arbitrarily squashed very much fit in with that.)

      Hey…I knew that would get you riled up… 🙂 There are just too many false leads from S3 and S4 to not consider the idea that many interesting paths will lead us to the endgame. D&D have selected their path but my goofy point is that their adhoc scenes don’t really add to the storyline, they just emphasize the obvious metaphors and known concerns (like Crasters, Dreadfort Yara, Orson…and Dorne Jaime most likely…)….when more chaos and intrigue could have been developed with hints of LS, Nymeria dreams, a neutral, mysterious wight, etc…

      Btw, I loved the extended metaphor of the T & J’s beetles scene. I just wish it could have led to something more than a moment….or maybe it did with Gregor smashing RV to bits….oh well.

      Cheers! May there be much beetle smashing in our future! Khuu! Khuu! Khuu!

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    114. Greenjones,

      I don’t think it was too bad beccause he carried on riding his bike to work every single day. But I can imagine the direction and production team panicking to the possibility of something serious

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    115. Cami:
      – They filmed in the bullring during 13 days and he thinks its going to be one of the most amazing scenes ever seen in the show.

      It should be budget bustin’, jaw-droppin’ exhilaration! Yeah!

        Quote  Reply

    116. btw I love the symbolism of the t-shirt with what it was filmed. Harpys, Unsullied, spears , dragons… and sun, lots of water bottles and umbrellas 😛

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    117. Cami,

      So that seems to pretty much confirm that

      the poisoning is being replaced by an actual attack by men in Harpy masks. I actually really like that, much more visual than the poisoning. Also, it works regardless of whether the attack was carried out by the Harpy or by someone trying to frame them, since anyone who got their hands on some harpy masks could pull it off.

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    118. Afeastfordances,

      Yes, I think so.

      The guy said that one of his friends was “one of the killers” that information on top of the images we have already seen of people with mask in the arena and people who seem to be playing dead in the stairs make me think that the Daznak’s Pit scene is going to be a massacre even before Drogon arrives…

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    119. So does anyone get the sense that pit scene is going to be at least half an episode like the pw/rw. 13 days is a lot of time to shoot I think.

        Quote  Reply

    120. Cami,

      Wow. Yeah, those are relatively big spoilers, in a way.

      So Jorah wins whatever fight he has to win to get on Dany’s good graces before the Harpy attack happens! That probably means Jorah will also get on Dany’s good graces somehow in TWOW.

      So, what’s the deal? The attack happens, Dany is going to be escorted out of the Pit and then Drogon comes? The scene is starting to take shape. I like it. Now, I would only ask where Tyrion features on all this, beyond what we already saw.

      house snow,

      To be fair, it’s such a complicated scene in every sense of production that the 13 days may be completely justified: it has many, many choreographed fight scenes; thousands of extras to manage; a choreographed massacre with all those extras; a big CGI insertion element that must have been coordinated with the visual effects department on set; the usual acting job, except accounting for all the extras; and I’m sure there’s even more complications than usual to it. All that said, I also do believe it will take a good chunk of the episode. Something like the Red or Purple Weddings, about 20 minutes.

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    121. Cami,

      Thank you Cami! All your info has been great!
      if Daznak’s is confirmed 5 09 (as is Jaime in Dorne), this leaves plenty of time for “daggers in the dark” in 5 10 if they want to leave some action in that one!
      I am looking forward to seeing the Daznak’s scene so much, it’s just unreal.
      Glad to hear Iain Glen was truly awesome 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    122. Thanks for your comments guys! I’m enjoying searching for information about everything that happened in the Spanish filming so it is my pleasure!

      BTW I posted a new comment with more picture in the Morgoth post. I though I was putting them here but… no. My mistake hahaha

        Quote  Reply

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