HBO Spain Shows Battles, Jon, Dany, and More in Game of Thrones Season 7 Clips!

Daenerys, season 7

HBO Spain has released a new video on Facebook to promote Game of Thrones. Yesterday, they went out to the streets of Madrid and showed off exclusive footage from the upcoming seventh season to passers-by. We may not be as lucky as they were, but through the promotional video of the event we get a glimpse of what they saw: characters old and new, new settings, and no less than three battle scenes too!

We can see moments from the three big battles this season, a new maester character in the Citadel, Daenerys getting to know Dragonstone, the Mountain unshielding his massive sword, King Jon Snow addressing the Northern Lords, Brienne and Podrick sparring (presumably in friendly terms), Jaime riding to battle, and more!


  1. There is just so much here to get pumped about
    I am looking forward to the breakdown videos ๐Ÿ™‚

  2. Why would Daenerys be going underground with a torch? Looks like Dragonstone based on the rock formations around her.

  3. LEAKS:

    That picture of Dany in the cave, is another show of proof that Lads2 was right about things. Whoever read his leaks should know what scene I’m talking about.
    It seems whenever we get something new from GOT another leak is confirmed lol
  4. Yay! Some more Pod – he has been sadly missing from most of the promotional material we’ve had thus far. Love the scene with him and Brienne. They seem to be back in Winterfell here.

    Daenerys exploring Dragonstone is amazing – we didn’t see that much of the castle when Stannis held it, other than a few chambers, the dungeons and the room with the map table.

    I can’t wait to see the scenes at the Citadel, and I hope we get A LOT more of Sam in season seven than we did in season six.

    I wonder if the line we get from Jon is from the big scene included in the BtS video and the trailer set in the Great Hall at Winterfell? It reminds me a lot of the speech he gave at Hardhome.

  5. JOOOOOOOON, CITADEL!!!!! Arya teasing me with her promises…I see what you did there girl ๐Ÿ˜› .

    I need some footage of my son Bran though. HURRY UP TRAILER!

  6. I noticed the quick glimpse of the Night King, not from the footage but prior to it. I cannot recall that footage from previous seasons, meaning that seems a special filming for this street exhibit. While I concede that you cannot tell in a definitive manner from such quick and dark footage, it does seem to me that unless they did extensive work to change his season 6 appearance that individual doesn’t resemble Valdimir Furdik to me. Like others, I noticed the promo poster they created featuring The Night King resembles Richard Brake’s version rather than Furdik’s season 6 one. While no evidence exists that Brake has reprised the role, I now wonder if a 3rd actor will portray The Night King in season 7, one that resembles Brake more than Furdik.

  7. It seems Brienne’s descent into dishonor will never cease. Tripping someone during sparring practice ? That’s some Bronn behavior right there.

  8. Ooh, blood and fire…interesting.

    Rory hamming for the camera. ๐Ÿ˜‚

    Those people being so giddy makes me happy.

  9. Markus Stark,

    She probably spars like she fights for real. That is to say that she does pretty much whatever to get the upper hand… including biting of course.

    I’m also looking forward to a specific leak scene and hope it’s actually in it.

  10. Woohoo! Pod sparring Brenne, healthy Hodor, Broadbent, Jon saying something new along the ussual lines, a glimpse of Ned, a happy HOund–and Arya asking us to promise.


  11. That grainy footage of 4 men fighting definitely looks like fighting on a ship deck. FIGHTING. ON. A. SHIP.

    I hope they aren’t setting up the Brienne-Pod relationship just to make us more sad when one of them dies. Then again, that’s kind of the point.

  12. Luka Nieto:

    Looks like Furdik to me, to be honest.

    Same. If that footage is from this year, I think we now have our answer on who the NK is being played by.

    And with Hodor in another promo, I wonder if we will see him this season.

  13. For the first time we can see the Umber kid at 1:16 in the winterfell hall scene.

    i like it all except that training fight between briene and podrick, i hope is a scene with like 20 seconds, i dont want to spend the precious time of got with training scenes of podrick, like…really.

  14. Ser Tripod,
    It’s too grainy to tell but I’ve seen it suggested that the two people furthest from us (ie closest to the white screens) are Yara (left) and Theon.

    Brienne is teaching Pod amazing fighting so they can both live to the very end of the story and dodge anything that comes their way. I demand it!!

    Edit: I see Aguero had the same idea.

  15. Yes Love it!!All that footage of Dany and her army against the Lannisters Robert Baratheon must be rolling in his grave lol.Then again he probably has been rolling in his grave since season one.I need more Jon shots I know his story is super spoilery this season but I still need it.Every speech of Jons in season 7 seven reminds of High School Musical’s All in this together.I get you boo I get you.

  16. That lannister banner made My heart drop! IT seemed with the recent footage of burning Lannister soldiers that the rediculous reign of the Lannisters is over ( even if legitimately it never really begun!) but now the banner being draped reminiscent of the stark banner at winterfell after battle of the bastards it seems they are really dragging this cercei queef/n thing.. she has no no place on the iron throne, not for long anyway. I mean so she has her own super eight, the mountain.. how long is that goon going to hold off the horde?!?

  17. The mountain drawing his sword means only one thing, horrible death for Elaria Sand..:-p PS: I bet he cuts her in half like he did with Oberin’s sister!

  18. Jenns: And with Hodor in another promo, I wonder if we will see him this season.

    Either as a big, blue-eyed wight, or in a Bran flash-back. Poor big man, he’s WW fodder now.

    I can never catch all the scenes. I hope somebody does a recap quickly. Somebody upthread thought they saw Ned. I watched several times and still missed a lot of stuff. Frame by Frame, somebody? Please?

  19. ghost of winterfell: Lol yeah it looks like he was right about everything. I donโ€™t doubt him anymore.

    Yes, these are more confirmations. Although I have been wondering, a lot of scenes are trailer specfic, I wonder if this might not be someone who has access to the trailer footage, and then he/ she fabricated those scripts to piss off certain fan sections. Because this same person hasn’t really answered questions about many details or other characters, Lads2 was also wrong about Jim Broadbent’s role in the season.

    I dont know, I guess I am denial, but I just don’t believe those specific script pages that were published by Lads2.

  20. Markus Stark,

    If he doesn’t learn how to fight dirty, he’ll have a far smaller chance of surviving. The only rule in real combat is “Stay alive.”

  21. Boudica,

    Nah he gave a details about a lot of scenes.Some of them are bound to show in the trailer.And I don’t think he was wrong about Jim Broadbent.He is playing Ebrose.It’s just too much of a coincidence.I didn’t believe him at all at first,didn’t even read the script pages but after the trailer came out I retroactively read everything and yeah it all fits.People judge too prematurely anyways,the script pages are just a small part of a scene.Not to mention everything sounds better when the actors say it.
  22. Rafaela:
    is NED in the first scene? Is it a flashback? OMG!!!


    It looks like a flashback from season 1 episode 3 “Lord Snow”, but I could be wrong.

  23. Pigeon,

    I thought it was wax too ..probably ravens and letters are being readied at Dragosntone to inform westeros that the Dragons have returned

    I don’t want to make luka overwork but I would like to see a breakdown analysis of this video …whose hand is that brushing the westeros table ..dany’s or Mel’s

  24. Mr Derp,

    I looks like Hodor carrying a younger Bran.

    Just before this you can spot the Ned flashback. It’s the scene where Ned walks into the throne room to see Jamie sitting at the foot of the iron throne.

  25. ramses,

    Yea, I caught the Ned scene from episode 3 in the video, but wasn’t sure about the Wall shot. I think you’re right, it’s most likely Hodor carrying Bran.

  26. Maybe these two flashbacks have significance? Or HBO Spain marketing team threw together a bunch of random shots of doors/gates opening to begin their promo.

  27. dragonbringer: whose hand is that brushing the westeros table ..danyโ€™s or Melโ€™s

    I watched it at 1/4 speed… It’s definitely Daenerys’ hand. You can see that ring she wears on her index finger. I would guess it’s a scene when she first walks into that room, brushing the table as she explores.

  28. ramses:
    Maybe these two flashbacks have significance? Or HBO Spain marketing team threw together a bunch of random shots of doors/gates opening to begin their promo.


    To me it looks like a juxtaposition of what the Throne room looked like when we first saw it vs. what it looks like now.

    Not sure about the Wall door though. Either way, lots of doors opening in the first few seconds of the video.

  29. Rob:

    I thought it was wax.


    I thought it was wax too ..probably ravens and letters are being readied at Dragosntone to inform westeros that the Dragons have returned

    I donโ€™t want to make luka overwork but I would like to see a breakdown analysis of this video โ€ฆwhose hand is that brushing the westeros table ..danyโ€™s or Melโ€™s

    I think you’re right, probably being melted down to use as a letter seal. Darn, got all excited there for a minute. ๐Ÿ˜œ

  30. Rob:

    I thought it was wax.

    I think youโ€™re right, probably being melted down to use as a letter seal. Darn, got all excited there for a minute. ๐Ÿ˜œ

  31. Also, I’ll gladly eat breakfast every morning with (a restrained) wight Hodor for the rest of my life if it means I never have to see a wighted Summer. ๐Ÿ˜€

  32. The quick shot of Broadbent is for either episode 2 or 3. It says on the clapperboard that Mylod is directing the scene.

  33. I think the glimpse of Ned from behind is him walking into the Red Keep right after Jamie has killed the Mad King. If you stop the clip just as the doors open you can glimpse what to me looks like Jamie in his white kingsguard uniform/armour. Hopefully one of Bran’s memories from the past.

  34. Snow,

    Cheers. I just don’t want Hodor to be a wight. If he has to be a wight, I want him controlled by Bran at all times. ๐Ÿ˜€

  35. How do you say “Goosebumps” in Spanish? I can’t even imagine how exciting it must have been to see this in situ.

  36. Luka Nieto,

    Thanks for that, I kept getting distracted by the over excited fans…..I slowed it way down, great to see all the characters in the great hall, and I finally see little john umber. Love seeing Brieene and Pod sparring Love Emilia hamming it up for the camera, Maisie smiling. Who is Greyworm with?

  37. Thronetender,

    Do what I learned to do – click on the settings gear, and turn down the speed all the way to 5. You can also click hold so you can get a better look

  38. dragonbringer,


    Lads2 said Jon and Dany go in a cave at Dragonstone together EP4 I believe, in the cave are drawings made by Children Of The Forest of the White Walkers, how people have to unite together to defeat them. Also that swirling drawing that is the mark of the WW we’ve seen before is there as well. Dany it seems after seeing that and having Jon tell the story of the drawings to her leans more towards him telling the truth about the WW

  39. Excuse me, total newbie here, but no one has commented that the walls of the cave Dany enters at the top seem to be full of layers and layers and layers of lovely lovely dragon glass.
    Back to lurking….

  40. Roheryn,

    Yep, noticed that. As rumored, Dragonstone is full of dragonglass. Still seems like it would be an ‘overkill’ amount of necessary dragonglass for the assumed number of WW. You know, considering it isn’t a necessity for eliminating wights…

  41. Mel,

    Ah its a good thing i didnt speculate what dany is doing there …i was thinking that she will find her mother’s crown or valyrian sword there.
    I do hope its dany aho takes him to the cave and jon taking dany ..because its one thing to tell the story after seeing paintings and another to already know of such painitings in dragonstone

  42. dragonbringer,

    I’m pretty sure Dany hadn’t been in that cave before, they go in it because it’s filled with Dragonglass I believe which is what Jon wants. I’m not sure if Jon previously knew about the drawings or he just sees them and tells her the story behind them. Considering he brings no proof to Dany about the WW, it sure is a much smarter step in the right direction to prove to her of their existence
  43. Mel,

    Oh yes iam sure she hadn’t been there before ..
    But I also don’t think its a common knowledge of there existing caves with children paintings at dragonstone so Jon shouldn’t know about it too and it will be his first time too..infact he will be seeing children for first time ..
    Its a good start but will not be that convincing because people know they once existed as their history tells but they need proof of them existing now will be good though Jon speaking about them to dany ..

  44. Mel,

    Leak talk:

    IIRC Lads2 also said that Jon once again asks for Dany to help him, in the scene in the caves. Dany agrees to do it, if he kneels to her, which he refuses
  45. Jenny,


    I am curious,

    what do you think about Jon kneeling to Dany, publicly, in front of Cersei? I personally think that’s the dumbest move he could have pulled, because there was no surer way to antagonize Cersei. Sure enough, Cersei gets mad at this. All they needed to do was agree to a temporary ceasefire till the WWs are dealt with, there was absolutely no need to pull off this kneeling stunt. But then I guess this piece is in line with what D&D think of Jon’s intellect
  46. ghost of winterfell,


    Well I don’t think he will physically kneel,just vocally pledge to her.And I also think we don’t know much of his motivations.For example he might think if I am preaching so much about unity and stuff I should take the first step.Also it shows Cersei that she is alone.Dany effectively has all the other kingdoms but she still wants a ceasefire.That must mean that this threat is really serious.As for angering Cersei well that’s just a lost cause.We know the woman is not gonna agree anyways.If she is stupid enough that even Ice Zombies can’t move her what do you expect?TBh,all this kneeling stuff,I think they are just doing it to contrast with the revelation at the end of the episode that he is the true heir.Like he became KiTN when we just found out he isn’t a Stark in name.It’s just moving stones.I mean people can be displeased I get that,especially those that don’t like Dany, but I think the outrage I have seen is a bit too much.I still love Jon the most and don’t think his character is ruined in any way.
  47. Jenny,


    The thing is it just doesn’t read like a smart move by Jon. Lads said that even Dany and Tyrion are dismayed by this public kneeling. The main purpose of calling the dragonpit meeting was to convince Cersei about the WWs, convince her for a ceasefire and ask her help. Kneeling to her rival in such a scenario seems counterproductive. And Cersei decides to go back on her word to help them after this meeting, even though she was shaken by the wight demonstration. God forbid if Jon’s actions play some part in her coming to this decision.
    Of course, we don’t how the whole scene will play. Maybe somebody will say something that will force his hand and the whole thing will make sense, let’s see.
    I don’t have a problem with Jon kneeling to Dany per se, so long as the character motivations make sense, which doesn’t seem like based on the leaks.
  48. ghost of winterfell,


    It’s butchering his character as usual in order for D&D to prop up their favorites. As BtoB script shows, they can’t help themselves.

    The private pledging I don’t mind, but the dragon pit one sounds like character assassination when Jon has been working to get people to fight WW together for multiple seasons (and based on the leaks he’s trying to get Dany and Cersei to stop fighting each other, so pledging to one side when he’s supposed to be neutral makes no sense). It undermines Jon’s entire character development.

    I see no point in this turn of events and I’ve yet to see someone convincingly explain why him pledging at the dragonpit is supposed to accomplish plot-wise. What exactly is D&D’s aim here besides more Dany pandering? I wish someone would explain this to me like I’m Hot Pie lmao. What’s the goal here?

  49. ghost of winterfell,


    This season ends with Cersei waking up screaming and covered in her own blood shortly after a disgusted Jaime walks out on her after finally seeing her for what she is. If the people who knew her best still couldn’t fathom her being that batshit crazy, blaming that one decision Jon makes in the Pit for her betrayal is asinine. Not to mention that Dany brings her WMD’s to a parlay and Tyrion and Varys spend the better part of the season being dismayed at her actions, from the field of fire to her decision to join the wight hunt, so Jon’s hardly alone in going rogue this season. Lads suggests that the Pit scene culminates in Jon killing the wight in front of everyone, while Cersei is visibly shaken, and then delivering the final line of the trailer that every viewer will have memorized by now: “The great war is here.” If this occurs after Jon’s pledging, they’re angling for: “Who I declare for as a ruler doesn’t matter, and let me show you why.” My advice would be to lay off the freefolk commentary, because the four people consistently reaming out Jon for his actions this season so far appear to have the relative IQ of a pair of gardening shears. Three more weeks is a long time to torture oneself over tidbits provided out of context being “interpreted” by a group of people narcissistic enough to think HBO actually spends time and money trolling them.
  50. elybe,

    Your sequence of events would make the whole scene less absurd, but do I trust the show to execute it properly given their track record with Jon last season? I don’t know.

    Don’t you find it crazy/weird that Varys and Tyrion, who have known Cersei for decades are ok with working with her? Maybe they are banking that she’d care about self-preservation? They come across as naive, considering they’re supposed to be so smart. It’s weird.

    To be honest, the leaks from that Lads person make Cersei sound like a boss: pays off the Iron Bank, opens a new line of credit to allegedly get the Golden Company, allies with Euron and defeats Dany’s allies, makes Dany send her Unsullied for Casterly Rock on a wild goose chase. I love Cersei so I might be biased, but damn she’s totally earned her throne lmao.

  51. Flayed Potatoes,

    lol, I don’t trust the writers any farther than I can throw them, but that was definitely the impression I got reading Lads’s spoilers. The pledging comes off as a blip in a similar vein as Jon temporarily pissing off the wildlings in Hardhome by not giving context for why he killed Mance (whatever D&D). Someone asked Lads where Jon’s line about the great war comes from, and he said it was from the Pit scene right after he kills the wight. That’s a mic drop moment if I ever saw one, and following it up with, “and btw, I’m pledging to ur enemy so fk u” makes zero sense. As for D&D tossing the idiot ball to otherwise smart characters this season to justify Cersei hanging on to power as long as she does. . .eh, just go with it.
  52. elybe,

    Okay thank you for this.You always put it much better than I do.Don’t disappear on me when the season starts.

    Honestly the way people judge this show makes me go crazy.It’s like they keep a tally on who makes the most mistakes.Even when there are unforeseen consequences.They keep forgetting that a show needs drama and if every decision our protagonists make is totally right and not controversial in the least there would be no show.Jon motivations this season are that he needs to rally the people against the WW and unite them and everything he does in the season is consistent with that.If in the end the wall falls with Viserion burning it down it’s not Jon’s fault or even specifically Dany’s for going there it’s more a commentary on the state of the affairs in Westeros.People were so obsessed with wars and power and so focused on annihilating each other and ignoring the threat that this happened.It’s a culmination of the series.Also it’s not anybody fault that Cersei is batshit crazy and can’t see that Ice Zombies are more important than everything.Nothing than Jon does can change that.
  53. Flayed Potatoes,

    I still wonder…

    how in the world she would manage to not only pay up the crown’s debt but acquire a new loan with the Iron Bank considering everything. She is of the same family that dug the debt in the first place. The Iron Bank would have knowledge of the events in Slaver’s/Dragon’s Bay so literally banking on Cersei to defeat Daenerys before she actually does sure doesn’t sound like it fits their previous policies. Oh I’m sure they’ll write something that “sounds” plausible but I don’t know if it will be realistic. I’ll assume it will have something to do with Euron and that somehow he’s pillaged so much over the years that he can pay off the crown’s massive debt. Still, acquiring a new loan from the IB feels like it would be premature for them to grant.
  54. Clob,

    I know right?


    I also thought that the debt was huge. Is sacking Highgarden enough to pay off everything? And how is Cersei able to pay the debt if Dany supposedly ambushes the supply wagons and wins?

    Did the Lannisters escape with the riches? How could they do that if Dany is the victor and burns the Tarlys? Does Dany not win? This doesn’t make sense.

  55. Jenny,

    er, why is any of that in spoilers?

    At any rate, these are common criticisms that fans often levy at shows & books. You are correct, though: character making mistakes โ‰  plot holes. If so, then WWI was a litany of plot holes: but one difference between story and history is that history cannot have plotholes.

    We also cannot consider things such as people refusing to act on things that they do not think are true to be plotholes. For example, if the southerners do not respond to “the White Walkers are coming” then it is not a plot hole. Indeed, it would be closer to the opposite: it’s never figured in the plot, but we know that the southerners think that White Walkers are mythical things. For them to take these claims seriously would be like us taking a Leprechaun invasion seriously.

    (One need only look at the extremes to which science deniers to to deny climate change, evolution, etc., to see what real people do; we want fictional characters to behave in the same way.)


    Ditto this for spoilers. As for Jon explaining Mance, no, that was not bad writing. Real people would do the same thing: and, for good or for ill, one thing people do to project leadership is not explain themselves. That is called “making excuses.” Now, if other people want to explain that Jon actually euthanized Mance rather than murdered him, then that’s great. However, if Jon wants the Wildlings respect, then he has to own the deed in its most basic form. Otherwise, he is backing down, and the whole thing is lost.

    We need to keep in mind that this is, fundamentally, a political drama as well as a character drama. (Yes, I realize that is tautological to some extent: but this involves mass politics as well as personal politics.) This means that we cannot have “idealized” politics where everyone behaves rationally: that might be nice for a story set on Vulcan, but not for one that involves humans. We need realistic and thus very irrational politics. That means that we need to see short-sightedness. We need to see people rejecting possibilities that they do not want to be true. We need to see people putting their self-interests over other people’s self-interests. I.e., we need to see everything that we see in D.C., London, Brussels, Moscow, Beijing, etc., all the time. Otherwise, we might just as well be watching Lord of the Rings again: and although that’s one of my favorite movies, I don’t need to see it again!

  56. Discussing events that we don’t know full details lead to this ..

    Some people just can’t see where the story is leading and how its being set up …funnily enough those who should be last to whine about favoritism is the one that is loudest ..

    I want to see what its about The scripts of BOTb that proves exactly they don’t favor Jon but dany ..instead of keep saying the scripts why can’t we provide the quotes that actually show bias towards dany and against jon

  57. lol, here we go again…Wahhhhhhh, my favorite character isnโ€™t being given all the attention wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

  58. dragonbringer,

    Then tell us where the story is headed oh wise one since you know so much. I’ve asked what the purpose is and so far I’ve seen no reply. Just you posting passive aggressive remarks instead of just directly replying.


    Yeah. I love Cersei and imo she’s by far the best villain of the series, but I hope the show can justify keeping her in power for so long.

    I swear if Euron says next season that he just built 1000 ships on his islands with no trees I’ll laugh and groan at the same time. No idea how that might sound like lol.

  59. dragonbringer: Some people just canโ€™t see where the story is leading and how its being set up

    This, too, is a common syndrome in fandoms. There actually were Harry Potter fans who complained that the final book was poorly written because in the end you could have seen where it was all going all along. In the normal universe, this is called “good storytelling”: but some Harry Potter fans genuinely wanted an ending that would make sense only to people who basically studied the books and got hung up on small details. (Small details that, I might add, almost always were augmented heavily by readers’ imaginations, nor Rowlings! ๐Ÿ˜€ )

    So far, we’ve gotten six stories that deal with various aspects of “damned if you do/damned if you don’t.” This just should be a small tipoff as to where it is going…..

  60. Flayed Potatoes,

    Er, why cannot they get trees from elsewhere? And why do we think that the Iron Islands have no trees? They are not small, after all. (And why was any of that in spoilers?)

  61. Flayed Potatoes,

    Oh god…the 1000 ships…… sigh….
    He will most likely just have a fleet w/ no explanation as to how he got it, and I kinda hope its that way because I don’t need to revisit the kingsmoot scene, lol.
  62. Flayed Potatoes,

    The show has never stated the iron islands have no trees, so I don’t see this being an issue in show canon
    I am not an expert in Shipbuilding, but wouldn’t making 1000 ships be an………ordeal, lol….
    oh well… imma just go w/ it.

  63. Wimsey:
    Flayed Potatoes,

    Er, why cannot they get trees from elsewhere?And why do we think that the Iron Islands have no trees?They are not small, after all.(And why was any of that in spoilers?)

    Few trees from descriptions. The descriptions match the name, Iron Islands. They’re said to be small, rocky islands. They aren’t fertile lands, they are bashed by storms repeatedly and are more suitable for only livestock grazing. Some of the islands aren’t even lived on as they’re inhabitable. Wooded and fertile land would be lived on. They could ‘snipe’ trees from Westeros and transport to the islands so gathering wood is a possibility…. However, the main issue is TIME. We’re talking about building 1,000 ships in a time span that would be ridiculous. While there isn’t a stated time that’s passed it should be no more than six months.

  64. Flayed Potatoes,

    I miss when the show took tertiary book characters (like Olenna, Margaery, and Oberyn), and made them infinitely more awesome than their book counterparts…..
    But Euron is salvageable IMO… or at least I hope.

  65. HelloThere,

    It would take a lot of time. I’m assuming Dany’s trip to Westeros would take about half a year?? Even if we’re being generous and giving Euron one year to build his ships, I don’t think one can build 1000 of them in such a brief amount of time.


    I love what they did with Margaery. I miss her and her ugly wigs ๐Ÿ™

  66. elybe,


    I wasn’t aware that the final scene was Jon killing the wight and delivering that line. The sequence you have listed could make sense I guess . Lads’ leaks have been so piecemeal that it’s hard to keep track of all of them lol.

    I normally don’t pay any attention to the complaining at freefolk. I don’t even visit there anymore. But I couldn’t come up with nor did I see anyone else come up with any reasonable explanation for Jon’s actions here. Besides, Lads himself made it sound like Jon was making a mistake here.

  67. HelloThere: But Euron is salvageable IMOโ€ฆ or at least I hope.

    They could have him throw himself off a cliff in a cold open this season and I wouldn’t care. Actually, I’d be rather pleased.

  68. Just a few line changes in the kingsmoot would’ve made things infinitely better.

    First, change 1000 ships to just “build me a new fleet”
    and remove that line “Lets go kill ’em”, because that was cringe city…
    and also, remove any references to Eurons “big cock”

  69. Flayed Potatoes:

    It would take a lot of time. Iโ€™m assuming Danyโ€™s trip to Westeros would take about half a year?? Even if weโ€™re being generous and giving Euron one year to build his ships, I donโ€™t think one can build 1000 of them in such a brief amount of time.

    I did that whole sailing trip post a few weeks back with estimated distances of ASoIaF world compared to our own ships in history. It started with our 18th century ships, which were similar to those in this story, that were able to sail from New York to UK (~3k miles) in less than 30 days. They averaged 100-120 miles per day (24 hrs). With that in mind it shouldn’t actually take even three months to sail from Meereen to her destination. That’s why I say Euron would roughly have six months – from the time Yara/Theon left. That of course does not factor in an unknown length of time they were in Meereen before departure… but it also doesn’t factor in Euron sailing anywhere with his magically created fleet and somehow manning all of them fully/adequately.

  70. Flayed Potatoes,

    I have had this discussion so many times I don’t want to be repeating the same thing again ..its very clear who is being the hero of this story and how they setting up this whole one who doesnt desire power is the one who will rule the best and all..

    But do point out those scenes from BOTB scripts ..iam waiting for those scenes that show favoritism and worshipping..

  71. HelloThere,


    Something I have never seen considered while speaking about euron and his 1000 ships is that we are forgetting that he only needed 1000 ships to bring Danyand her army …
    Without her he doesn’t have enough men to fill those 1000 ships ..

  72. dragonbringer: those scenes that show favoritism and worshipping.

    I think “blaming” Daenerys and/or D&D of favoritism and worship for Jon’s storyline (failures) is misplaced. Jon’s story actions suffered because D&D are tacking Sansa into everything he does because THEY like HER for some damn reason.

    and she sucks!! I had to add that for consistency

  73. Clob,

    Exactly why I keep getting annoyed and irritated by those statements ..I am very poor at ignoring these things..even tyrion fans can’t complain because its him who is holding dany to ground and winning the wars and battle for her as her advisor ..

  74. dragonbringer,

    Maybe now that Daenerys will be in Westeros they can stick Sansa in both their storylines and f&*k ’em both up! Dammit, I shouldn’t even put that out there for chance that they’ll somehow get that idea. ๐Ÿ™

  75. Clob,
    Jon’s storyline in the TV show has never been strong, going back to season 1.
    They’ve taken every opportunity where they could’ve developed him into a capable leader, and twisted the situation to the point where Jon bumbled and buffooned his way into winning.
    But maybe thats the character they want him to be. Its consistent.

  76. HelloThere,

    Huh… I thought they did pretty well in sticking to book!Jon’s story and character for the most part up to the last we’ve read of him (stabbing). *shrug*

  77. Clob,

    I don’t know.
    I just got the feeling that from, especially season 2 with the Quorin Halfhand storyline, that they made it seem like Jon accidentally stumbles his way into leadership, rather than actually taking charge. And there is an innate hardness to the character in the books, that I never felt comes across in the show.
    Which is why I felt him being so easily tricked by Ramsay was consistent with how they’ve written the character for years.
    Tho I will say, my usage of “bumbled and buffooned” is too harsh, but I still stand by what I said.
    But I think its honestly better from a show standpoint, to remain consistent to the character in the script, because for the show, that is the character.

  78. Clob,

    This is very helpful! Thank you ๐Ÿ˜€

    I suppose we have to factor how long it would take Dany to prepare the ships (Daario mentioned the sails in 610), but it shouldn’t take that long anyway ๐Ÿ™‚

    And good point about Euron not having enough people to man those potential 1000 ships.


    spoiler tags just in case

    My priority is for my favorite characters to live and have decent storylines. I would be happy with Jon living a quiet life with a family of his own somewhere or travelling the world (IF he survives that is).

    You know the only way Jon rules is if Dany dies. And frankly I don’t see her dying (not after GRRM is writing dozens of chapters of her in Essos dealing with slavers and ruling in Meereen and D&D have been telegraphing her on the throne for years now). There will be riots tbh if she dies.

    D&D have mentioned in interviews who their favorite characters are and yes Dany is a favorite of both and it shows. Clob mentioned one BtoB part of the script I was going to mention (sticking their girl Sansa everywhere) and the trend will likely continue next season when he meets Dany.

    BtoB script: “Dany never flinches,” “Dany watches Tyrion flinching, regarding him as the snake regards the mouse”, “Tyrion flinches again, and is a bit embarrassed when he sees Dany coolly regarding him with a slight smile”. Tyrion basically looks embarrassed and pathetic in this entire scene compared to the ever stoic and badass Dany (since that’s the only Dany they write I guess). “My tyranny has just begun motherfucker” is pure D&D worship… like look how badass this is hurr durr.

    I’m going to assume you’ve read the leaked pages from the season 7 script and how Jon finally sees “what everyone else has seen” or whatever *eyeroll* and then randomly calling her Dany. I really worry their scenes are going to be cheese on toast. I was looking forward to them meeting, but I worry about the writing.

  79. HelloThere,

    Yeah I wish they’d have shown his ambition, ruthlessness and political skills more, but it seems like they’re just obsessed with the “you know nothing Jon Snow” meme. They’re also insisting too much on the Ned parallels. I don’t see Ned doing what Jon did to Gilly and her baby in ADWD, for example. I also liked seeing Jon negotiate with the Iron Bank, haggling like a fishwife, meddling in Norther politics and negotiating marriages.

    At least he hanged a kid I guess….

  80. HelloThere,

    Its rather good to be consistent than be an inconsistent one like dany …sometimes they write her as viserys ( whole season 2 for example ) and sometimes as dany..

    And I disagree with you his storyline hasn’t been strong …the only one whose storyline that has been strong in the last 3 season is actually jon’s ..
    Starting from the council scene in two swords Jon and kit is owning it ..


    Did you know this site used to be pro sansa once upon a time ..and the turn around in this website alone actually speaks how much strong his arcs have been ..

  81. HelloThere,

    Personally for me Jon’s arc has been the strongest in the last three season.He is the most empathetic character and the one who makes me feel the most and I am most invested in.I liked him in the books but not at the level that I do in the show so for me they must be doing something right.

  82. Jenny,

    Just so everyone is clear, when I post my “critiques”, I am being needlessly nitpicky over my favorite TV show of all time, so In general, I pretty much adore all the characters and plot lines.

  83. Tbh I think in general the show has mostly done a good job with all the main characters.Apart from Bran but that is mostly George’s fault.I have read all the books and obviously they are more nuanced in there and give a better understanding especially of characters like Jon and Dany with extensive interior monologues but the essence of the characters is still there.I find that the hardcore fans are the ones that dwell the most on the supposed mistakes their faves make.The casual viewers absolutely love Jon,Dany,Arya and Tyrion and root for them same as most book readers so I would say mission accomplished.

  84. Jenny:

    Personally for me Jonโ€™s arc has been the strongest in the last three season.

    I definitely agree that Jon has really shone in the last three seasons. I wonder if that was deliberate, the way he really seems to come out of Robb’s shadow following the Red Wedding? Jon grew slowly in the first three seasons, but became far more prominent from season four onward.

  85. Jenny,

    They have more emmys than any scripted TV show

    Thats more than “mission accomplished”
    GOT is a homerun in every way.

    I can, and have, nitpicked for hours on end, to the point where any sane human would believe I despise the show. But its absolutely the opposite.

  86. Flayed Potatoes,

    Every one wants the same thing for their favorites

    You know who has the most number of death theories and one who has always been penned as not going to survive list ..
    Its dany ..

    And you know on who there are endless theories about he is the Prince and rightful king and aragorn and how he will end up ruling know who gets to be on the list of persons that will survive …
    Its on Jon we even have a thread theorising how Jon will die ..

    Don’t you think if there will be such an uproar should be opposite ..
    Whatever we canjust say D&D preferred dany so she survived right ..

    Its nearly been a decade I joined this fandom other than you and couple of others the majority of this fandom for the most part have always been saying he is going to be the king ..I dont think they are any less fans than we are ..

    So they said they like dany ..don’t they say the same thing for Jon..
    Its always the same with you isnt it..Emilia gets nominated because she attends parties and now D&D say they like dany so theyshow favoritism ..

    I guess they are such a fans who else will be writing Tyranny starts when it comes to ruling …who else will be making remarks about Hitler or who else will be having people telling her about her mad father every turn. .hizdar,jorah and tyrion all comes of sympathetic while she is coming of as arrogant evil mad queen..
    She can’t even have her own mind …no we have to have tyrion for that ..

    I guess only fans will do those scenes instead of actually showing her empathy and self doubts her vulnerabilities her emotions and her intelligence and cunning and caring about the people ..why do we even have to mention Rhaegar when we have aerys and viserys ..

    All those scenes you mention between tyrion and dany actually shows how terrible dany is and anyone who has read the book dany must know she will never treat one of her own man like that ..they even mention how terrible she is now and chnaged..
    If we are going to ask who won the battle of meereen for dany. .people are going to say its Tyrion and he is such a saint he is keeping her on the ground and doesn’t go full mad ..the writers go on about Dany should be thankful to tyrion ..

    What about the lines written for Jon such as Mel thinking he is the King she is meant to serve ..or smalljon thinking I don’t like boy but like his balls and him being the greatest swordsman and all..

    Season 7 is clear dany and cersei will be fighting their cat fight …Jon will want to put side their fight and unite. Because he is the only one who truly cares about realm and people and of the coming threat ..
    The most amusing thing is tyrion will side with Jon but dany won’t …I guess it was dany who escaped KL inside a cart and most hated sister of cersei ..

    Why shouldn’t Jon admire dany ..isn’t she done admirable things …in the books we have tyrion telling YG about her path so far and that is admirable ..and we have tyrion question about dany’s sanity to jorah in the similar scene …and worst of all that can jorah comes up with is birth of dragons and crying of dragons ..
    Dany has always gained and earned respect ..she values the people around her and below her will be nice If the show actually showed some of these things instead of their cool breaking the wheel ..

    The show hadnt whitewashed dany like they did with tyrion or raised her importance like they did with sansa or cersei …so this constant claiming of them favoring dany doesn’t stand at all ..she is been getting less and less screentime and lines in the last 3 season..

    And this is all I can say about this ..I know its not going to stop you making the same claim again ..I pray to god I have strength to ignore those comments ..

  87. dragonbringer: Did you know this site used to be pro sansa once upon a time ..and the turn around in this website alone actually speaks how much strong his arcs have been ..

    I don’t know that I’d ever call it “pro Sansa” as much as there just wasn’t as much to complain about since the show stuck to her story and she (and Sophie) could be mostly ignored. I of course have never fallen into the Pro category. I was in the “I’ll let her slide” or that “ignore” category but the show and Sophie have turned me for the worse. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  88. Jenny,

    Wasn’t planning on it! The excitement’s only just ramping up.


    Oh, I think we can easily agree to disagree about the quality of writing. But unconfirmed details in the reddit leaks are spoiler-coded here as a matter of forum policy, so I’m not sure why the confusion.

    ghost of winterfell,

    The sequence still hasn’t been outlined, but having Jon pledge
    after killing the wight and delivering that line wouldn’t make a lick of sense, would it? It wouldn’t just undermine his character, it would undermine the entire scene. Normally D&D only screw characters over to service the plot. Does it make more sense for the climax of the finale to boil down to, “This is the threat we’re all facing and all the other wars don’t matter,” or “Jon’s the absolutely worst and he just fucked over the realm for no reason”? How would any writer justify the latter?
  89. dragonbringer,

    I’ll number my points, since it’s easier to keep track of them:

    1. Jon has plenty of death theories (either he’s going to sacrifice himself and die in the final battle or he will become the new NK). The first one is more common. Dany does have a lot too, and I blame the HotU sequence for that, but so does Jon.

    2. I never said Emilia gets nominated just because she attends parties. Every actor attends parties and meets with producers and other industry people. Kit himself lowkey campaigned for his Emmy nom. It’s just what’s done in Hollywood. I follow awards season religiously. Idk it doesn’t bother me.

    3. If she survives to the end it won’t be because of favoritism. It’s GRRM’s ending. But favoritism influences the character’s journey. I wish D&D had made it more challenging and suspenseful. It’s just lame so far.

    4. “Greatest swordsman” was said by Ramsay in a mocking way. Jon would get beat by the Mountain, the Hound, and Brienne based on their strength alone. I think even Bronn would beat him. Mel’s king line was so out of left field…but really would people take her seriously after she was wrong about Stannis? You have said she will now proclaim Dany as the lord’s chosen at some point so idk.

    5. Doesn’t Tyrion also tell Dany not to go after Jon? I don’t know how supportive that is, if he’s ok with letting Jon die north of the Wall. Lads also said Tyrion spends the season convincing Jon that Dany is good for Westeros, so he’s obviously on her side and the death of the Tarlys seems merely a temporary conflict.

    6. I never said Jon shouldn’t admire Dany. Don’t put words in my mouth. I’m sure they’ll like and admire each other.

    7. If Dany dies there will be uproar. The great majority of casual viewers think she’ll survive and rule because the show is spelling it out in capital letters (and Dany mentions she’ll rule every season). Media outlets will be outraged. Both show and book fans will feel like they’ve wasted their time if her arc doesn’t lead up to something like this. George spent hundreds of pages on depicting her campaign to get an army and her rule in Meereen and he’s most likely going to spend another book with her and the Dothraki (most likely culminating with her becoming the khal of khals). If there’s no payoff after all of this, people will be pissed off. If GRRM had ended ASOS with her sailing for Westeros, maybe there would be less uproar, but he’s written one book where her arc is about leadership 101 and the next one is once again back with the Dothraki … it has to lead somewhere otherwise what’s the point? People will feel cheated and duped.

  90. Flayed Potatoes,

    I don’t know whether we are actually watching different show and fandom .I didn’t say Jon doesn’t have theories about his death ..I said dany is the one who has more death theories ..start a poll today asking which major character you think will die and you will see what I mean..
    Even today she will top that list ..
    I myself believed dany as more chance of dying but the way season 7 ending with cersei still being alive is actually making me believe she will survive ..

    4 ) regardless those things happened and can be seen in the scripts right …they have said they like jon and kit right. I don’t see anyone shouting how it shows D&D favoritism for Jon Snow…

    I like how some lines like tyranny is taken as joke but brushing aside these lines about Jon or underplaying it ..

    I never said Mel will proclaim dany as chosen one ..I am asking for someone who thinks about waking the dragons and looking for someone who is actually born on dragonstone …what does she will do when she learns about dany…logic dictates that she comes to realize her mistake ..

    7) an arc that many believe to be a failure and an arc that show brushed aside with the stupid ” you are no ruler but a conqueror” and looking at the season 7 she is not even a good conqueror it seems ..

    You talked about how we should just insert dany instead of sansa next season and expect it to be the same…
    If you have watched the show it never happens in the dany’s storyline..
    Take anyone starting from Jorah,Hizdar,Tyrion everyone as been whitewashed and have made look dany bad and questioned her to the face ..
    Her ruling arc has been given to tyrion ..
    Her military campaigns and ideas were given to jorah and Darrio..

    This is how the show has been doing her storyline for seasons …its a sad thing dany fans are not vocal about these things like Jon’s does…

    I will just reiterate what I said in my previous post …if a character is said be having shown favoritism …then I expect the character

    1) role to be either whitewashed or
    2) characters importance has been increased or
    3) screentime to be increased or

    None of this happens with daenerys and she is actually more ruthless and cruel in the show and one dimensional and more about IT and more like Aerys and viserys …

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