Daenerys and her dragons arrive in Westeros in Game of Thrones season 7 pic!

The new picture below follows directly from this last moment in "The Winds of Winter"

The new picture below follows directly from this last moment in “The Winds of Winter”

The barrage of Game of Thrones season 7 promotional photographs lately has been a relief for our GOT-starved eyes, but, aside from the trailer, we have only seen a single frame of what we’ll actually get to see this coming season, with the intended special effects, lighting and all. That was the impressive sight of Daenerys mounted on Drogon, in the middle of a battlefield. Today, Daenerys, Drogon and the rest of her crew return for our first proper view of Dany’s arrival in the Seven Kingdoms in season seven.

There are now many photos of Queen Daenerys touching Westerosi sand for the first time, but the following screen capture from the season premiere, published by TIME, shows us the preceding moments within the same scene, in their CG-enhanced glory:

Emilia Clarke as Queen Daenerys Targaryen, Peter Dinklage as Tyrion Lannister, Nathalie Emmanuel as Missandei, Conleth Hill as Varys arrive in Westeros. Photo: HBO.

Emilia Clarke as Queen Daenerys Targaryen, Peter Dinklage as Tyrion Lannister, Nathalie Emmanuel as Missandei, Conleth Hill as Varys arrive in Westeros. Photo: HBO.

Aside from Daenerys, Tyrion, Missandei and Varys, Grey Worm should be there, somewhere. You may also notice Drogon, Viserion and Rhaegal in the background, flying over a fleet of Targaryen, Martell, Tyrell and Greyjoy ships. They are all looking at a particular point, which we now know to be Dragonstone, Dany’s first stop in her campaign for the conquest of the Seven Kingdoms, which starts July 16.

113 responses

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    1. It’s going to be awkward when she lands and realized YG is already there kicking ass all over Westeros w/ Jon Con and the Gold Co.

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    2. HelloThere,

      Nobody’s fault but his own…. he decided he wanted to attend 800 conventions and signings and movie theater events and ball games and writing Wild Cards etc. etc. instead of writing one book in 6 years.

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    3. I love it, gorgeous picture. Dany looks like she’s a bit overwhelmed upon getting her first glimpse at Dragonstone. I also love that all 3 dragons are right there, and not off doing their own thing, as their momma achieves this huge milestone.

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    4. Making the 8:
      It’s going to be awkward when she lands and realized YG is already there kicking ass all over Westeros w/ Jon Con and the Gold Co.

      HA! Jokes aside, here’s a serious book-related question:

      What’s the likelihood Aegon survives long enough to meet Dany? Most theories I have seen mark him as dead at Dany’s hands when she arrives in King’s Landing… at best! At worst, he dies trying to take the city from Cersei, which is the likeliest scenario in my mind, given the show’s abbreviated route of excising this and associated characters. I imagine something like the season six finale’s Sept explosion will happen, but with Aegon included.

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    5. I really wonder what episode 1 will be called. it will be tied to this event, clearly.

      How about, “Arrival”?
      its ugly. but cant think of anything else

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    6. Dee Stark,

      If the premiere is titled after Dany’s story, which seems likely… Stormborn, perhaps? She is returning to Dragonstone, which is her birthplace, where she was given her ‘Stormborn’ title, as she was born during a terrible storm.

      That’s just a theory, though. Hopefully we’ll know soon enough.

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    7. Luka Nieto,

      Ouu, I like that..
      I was also going to suggest Dragonstone, but, Stormborn is even better.

      It seems to me that after all these years, it is only fitting that the title be about her arrival to Westeros.

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    8. Ryan,

      I actually don’t think any of this is the reason GRRM isn’t getting the books out. He is a prolific writer and always has been.
      I think he is too obsessed with the ASOIAF world. I don’t think he is able to reign in his impulses when it comes to spawning new threads in these books. And I think he rewrites obsessively
      I wouldn’t be surprised if he has already written 1000+ pages of TWOW, and yet has not moved the plot in a significant enough way to release a new novel.

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    9. Love this shot, and love that she’s standing – the show has done a great job visually of mirroring Jon and Dany’s story arcs (mostly intentionally) and her standing in the boat approaching Dragonstone reminds me a lot of the image in 508 of Jon being rowed ashore to Hardhome.

      Don’t recall them mentioning in S4 how much of a garrison Stannis was leaving behind but assume that for the sake of moving the story along, she won’t face much opposition if any. Aside from anything else, her dragons should see to that!

      I wonder if this will be the first glimpse we get of Daenerys in season seven?

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    10. Ahhh not enough. I already saw this picture 2 hours ago. Where is the name of the first episode??! I hope we get a trailer next week, and the name of the first episode this week.

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    11. Luka Nieto,

      I’m assuming Dany will kill him, since she is the “slayer of lies” according to the HotU vision in ACOK. She may feed him to Drogon in a reverse of Aegon II/Rhaenyra.

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    12. I hope to the seven gods that they show how they all got new clothes while sequestered on a ship… Otherwise it will completely fail to suspend my disbelief.

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    13. Are we gonna do the thing this year where we guess the episode titles beforehand? I always look forward to that and I love seeing if any are right

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    14. Already imagining Ramin Djawadi’s score for this scene! I’m curious to see how he will handle all the converging storylines this season, and how the different character themes will overlap.

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    15. Guest,

      Sue already said no, because of the vast amount of spoilers and plot leaks floating through the internet.
      Too many people have too much knowledge of what is most likely happening in each episode for such an effort to be spoiler free.

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    16. Guest,

      The abundance of leaks and the lack of source material make guessing episode titles almost superfluous. It would be less fun than in years past because there are no books in which to base our guesses; but it would also be easier, because of the spoilers. Not a good mix. So, sadly, this year we won’t do it.

      Viz,

      You are kidding, I hope. If that is not a parody of nit-pickers, I hope you understand the characters don’t get their costumes in clothing stores. They must bring all kinds of raw material in their ships, for sustenance and everything else. They had plenty of time at sea to have new outfits made.

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    17. Luka Nieto,

      YG/Jon/GC will have stretched themselves too thin along the eastern coast of Westeros…but I believe Dorne will get involved after Arianne’s awkward meeting with YG at Storm’s End. However, by then the Redwyne navy will have arrived on the east coast as well (making it easier for the ironborn to take Oldtown). It will be an ongoing battle, or just ending, by the time Dany’s odd force arrives. Heck, she may survey the battle from the air first, which will completely make things chaotic and fun to read! It may distract YG enough to get him killed before meeting Dany.

      In any case, there will be a large variety of forces engaged in or weary of battle by the time Dany’s seasick forces arrive, imho.

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    18. Alba Stark: Don’t recall them mentioning in S4 how much of a garrison Stannis was leaving behind but assume that for the sake of moving the story along, she won’t face much opposition if any. Aside from anything else, her dragons should see to that!

      I can’t imagine that it would be very many. He needed nearly all of his men with him and he probably wouldn’t have been concerned about protecting an island castle that didn’t really matter to him. (At the time) Cersei didn’t have a fleet large enough to pose much of a threat either. I wouldn’t think any remaining men are in a position to even attempt to stave off an attack either since they’re not really supporting anyone at the moment… Seeing a fleet of hundreds of ships and three dragons approaching one would think they’d either attempt to flee or immediately bend the knee and throw open the doors.

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    19. Dee Stark:
      Clob,

      Hahah that sounds like a martial arts movie to me, but its cool also.

      It does… and it was. It was the name for the U.S. version of Bruce Lee’s The Way of the Dragon. 🙂

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    20. Clob,

      I suspect they will have some type of throwaway line of how Dragonstone was abandoned, or that the troops their surrendered immediately

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    21. HelloThere,

      It would be absolutely hilarious if we got to see Baratheon troops getting the hell out of dodge in little ships, paddling away madly, making Gendry proud. Alas, I don’t think I’ll get my wish, and I fear neither will anyone who expects an explanation of Dragonstone’s situation since Stannis left it. I hope to be wrong, though. I love those details, however unnecessary they may be.

      Hodors Bastard,

      So specific! If you’re right, Aegon will not even take King’s Landing, right? I’m fond of the theory that the High Sparrow will ally himself with Aegon and the Martells to overthrow Cersei. And, given the season six finale, I think that’s pretty much how that will turn out (not in detail, but in spirit.)

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    22. Clob: I can’t imagine that it would be very many.He needed nearly all of his men with him and he probably wouldn’t have been concerned about protecting an island castle that didn’t really matter to him.(At the time) Cersei didn’t have a fleet large enough to pose much of a threat either.I wouldn’t think any remaining men are in a position to even attempt to stave off an attack either since they’re not really supporting anyone at the moment…Seeing a fleet of hundreds of ships and three dragons approaching one would think they’d either attempt to flee or immediately bend the knee and throw open the doors.

      Yeah, a token garrison was pretty much my line of thinking – mostly I couldn’t recall if it was mentioned in S4 as my pre-season re-watch still has me on S1. Besides, how much would you be willing to fight for someone else’s home if there was a possibility doing so could get you burned alive by dragons? Answer: not a lot.

      Ryan Neuner:
      Already imagining Ramin Djawadi’s score for this scene! I’m curious to see how he will handle all the converging storylines this season, and how the different character themes will overlap.

      Yes! I have to agree I’m really looking forward to hearing the score for the season as a whole. The season six score was stunning – and it will be interesting to see what he does if characters with their own individual themes interact. Will the themes be merged in some way, or will one take precedence over the other?

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    23. Luka Nieto,

      I haven’t the slightest idea how his story ends but I’m most interested to see how Tyrion councils Dany on how to handle the situation since he became fond of YG during their travels, assuming he becomes Hand of the Queen like in the show.

      At least that’s how I remember it. It has been a couple years since I’ve read the series.

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    24. Viz: I hope to the seven gods that they show how they all got new clothes while sequestered on a ship… Otherwise it will completely fail to suspend my disbelief.

      I know! It’s completely unrealistic for them to pack additional clothing when setting sail on a 6-8 week voyage!! 😛

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    25. Vanessa:

      I’m assuming Dany will kill him, since she is the “slayer of lies” according to the HotU vision in ACOK. She may feed him to Drogon in a reverse of Aegon II/Rhaenyra.

      Yeah…that would be such a Targ thing to do…straight out of the cautionary tale that is TP&tQ!

      Rather than working together to create a formidable force and strong leadership on ground and in the air, they’ll just destroy themselves. Hopefully, Dany’s advisors will have taught her history’s lesson before it comes to that!

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    26. That photo could be from the very first scene of Game of Thrones Season 7… maybe even before the opening credits play… It looks like a good scene to start season 7

      Let the Game (of Thrones) begin…

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    27. Clob: I know!It’s completely unrealistic for them to pack additional clothing when setting sail on a 6-8 week voyage!!😛

      I just want a costume change scene at least! Or at least someone muttering about how it got so cold so fast 😀

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    28. Quote from ACOK: ” A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. […]mother of dragons, slayer of lies”

      I think this implies Dany will have to slay the lie of the “cloth dragon”, which I take to mean a fake Targ. And the fact that the cloth dragon is walking amidst a cheering crowd, I believe signals Aegon’s eventual Kings Landing conquest

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    29. HelloThere: A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. […]mother of dragons, slayer of lies”

      Yeah, I’ve seen that phrase waved about a lot these days.

      But is a Blackfyre a liar? If he isn’t a Targ or Blackfyre descendent, how did he fool JonCon and Varys and Illyrio all these years? Is YG glamoured like Mel?

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    30. Lovely photograph, everyone looks very handsome on it !

      I feel compelled to ask though : is “main character staring into the void” a template of promotional pictures ? It is not that I do not like it in and of itself and, again, all the actors look fabulous, but it feels a tad staged to me. As if the characters were aware their photograph was being taken.
      The sole problem I had with the final scene of Winds of Winter was the group shot of Daenerys et al. on the deck, looking very intently ahead. I assume it was meant to appear inspirational (and make a very good basis for a poster or a screensaver) but all I could think of was what in the seven hells are they all staring at ? The other ships ? The horizon ? Their own souls ? ^^
      Hopefully, as the date of the premieres looms ever closer, we will get more “mid-action” promo pictures ! I thoroughly look forward to seeing Daenerys do things and interact with others, not just gaze !

      As for the episode’s title, I would go for something very simple : Home or, close to Luka‘s excellent suggestion, The Storm (if Euron is also in the episode and the White Walkers feature to any extent).

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    31. Dee Stark,

      My guess for the premiere title would be “First of Her Name”, since that title could apply to Cersei as well as Dany. It would also serve as a kind of callback to Season 4’s “First of His Name”, the episode in which Tommen was crowned. It’s rare, but the show has used such thematic callbacks as episode titles on rare occasions before (Oathkeeper and Oathbreaker come to mind).

      Hopefully we’ll get the real title in a week or two.

      Jenny,

      You’re right! A link, for those who’d like to watch it (not sure if it’s region-locked). New BTS footage starts about 1 minute in.

      https://twitter.com/yeahclarke/status/876829549362892802

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    32. Hodors Bastard,

      Blackfyre is technically not a Targaryen by name, even if they share the same bloodline. So I believe the cloth dragon refers to Aegon, pretending to be a Targaryen, but in fact being a Blackfyre.

      I believe JonCon is fooled, but Varys and Illyrio are fully in on it, and perhaps both descend from the Blackfyre line. YG might himself believe he is the son of Rhaegar,

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    33. Jared: My guess for the premiere title would be “First of Her Name”, since that title could apply to Cersei as well as Dany.

      That is a superb idea ! Me like-y !

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    34. Such a beautiful picture, I can just imagine how epic this scene will be. I imagine slowly rowing the shore, then slowing touching down and putting her hand in the sand once they get ashore, to slowly walking up to Dragonstone her face full of awe and wonderment, to slowly walking through all the main rooms in Dragonstone with beautiful slow powerful music playing.
      Which is why I think it’s possible this will be the first scene in the premiere.

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    35. Dee Stark,

      I think the first episode of season 7 will be called “The Father”

      Daenery’s is arriving at her homeland… where her infamous father the Mad King is from. Season 7 is the beginning of the End of a story that started with Daenery’s father The Mad King.

      Jon Snow is King of the North partly because he supposedly has Ned Stark’s blood in him… close but still not Ned’s. Littlefinger will be all over this fact.

      Cersei is the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms and her father Tywin would be proud and the actions Cersei takes will determine what happens with the Lannister Legacy.

      The Faith of the Seven has 7 Gods… Season 7 has 7 episodes… The first God is The Father

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    36. The photograph has been updated in all its super-HD glory, for those who want to take a much closer look at it.

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    37. Luka Nieto,

      Don’t know about the premiere, but the finale title should really be …

      SPOILERS

      The Fall (as a contrast to S3E6 The Climb – a title related both to the Wall and LF’s climb-fall speech, both highly relevant… )

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    38. ACME,

      The Storm works perfectly, with two meanings. I like it. Home would be great too, if not for the fact the second episode of season six was titled Home.

      Dutch Maester,

      That is my preferred season finale title too, my best guess.

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    39. HelloThere:

      So I believe the cloth dragon refers to Aegon, pretending to be a Targaryen, but in fact being a Blackfyre.
      Yay, another Blackfyre Rebellion! We need to get Bloodraven aware of this immediately! Or does he already know…?

      You know…Cersei could also be considered a “cloth dragon”…or is that too much of a stretch?

      Interesting synopsis about JonCon, V and I.

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    40. Luka Nieto,

      adding spoiler tags just in case

      Dany vs. fAegon is foreshadowed in her HotU vision. He’s the mummer’s dragon among the cheering crowd, which shows he’s going to be pretty popular among the people. She’s going to get her hands dirty and do a lot of damage to Westeros in her efforts to conquer the south.

      Cersei can easily escape to Carsterly Rock before fAegon takes KL and plan from there. Maybe even join Euron at some point and take KL, while Dany is up north. The Forsaken chapter seems to foreshadown a Cersei-Euron team up. I think I also read somewhere that we will see Casterly Rock in the next book.

      Assuming there’s a throne at the end, my guess as to the order of who will sit on the throne or take KL in the books has long been:

      Tommen
      Myrcella (per Cersei’s vision)
      fAegon
      Dany (Rhaenyra style; she defeats fAegon and then hears about what’s going on in the North with the WW and goes there asap)
      Cersei+Euron
      Scouring of KL lol; whoever survives is the final ruler (Dany, Moonboy, whoever I don’t know lol)

      Hodors Bastard,

      He didn’t fool Varys and Illyrio. They know YG is not the real deal. I think the prevailing theory is that YG is Illyrio’s son with a Blackfyre woman. Jon Con could have been fooled easily since the real Aegon was a baby when he died. Jon Con is also in love with Rhaegar, so his love for Rhaegar would have blinded Jon Con to the truth. As Ned said (paraphrasing): “A mad man sees what he sees.” Jon Con sees YG as Rhaegar’s son because that’s what he wants and what he’s been told to see. Just like everyone sees Jon Snow as Ned’s bastard because that’s what they’ve been told he is.
      If that makes sense.

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    41. Luka Nieto: The photograph has been updated in all its super-HD glory, for those who want to take a much closer look at it.

      Uggh…I can see the Dothraki still vomiting over the sides of their ships in the background. Too much detail! 🙂

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    42. HelloThere,

      Not just his KL conquest, but the fact that he will be beloved by the people. He’s going to be a huge obstacle in her conquest. I love this plot twist so much. There’s so much character development and story there for so many characters.

      Making the 8,

      It’s speculation…but spoilers just in case lol

      I think Tyrion will tell her to attack. Book Tyrion is not as whitewashed as he is on the show and he’s out for revenge against his family. Or Dany will be faced with a dilemma: Tyrion will tell her to deal with YG first and someone like Marwyn will tell her to go north instead. She’ll choose to fight YG first and there will be a lot of destruction: “They were dancing. In my dream. And everywhere the dragons danced the people died.”

      Tyrion is the only one who knows about YG in Dany’s circle and it’s possible he’s figured out YG is fake. This is most likely imo how he’ll win her trust.

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    43. Luka Nieto,

      I agree Luka, I was always fascinated where Young Griff would go in the books but from the show I’ve reached the conclusion that

      he’s going to die early in Winds and most likely by Cersei

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    44. Stormborn is fine but can we just make it as Jelmazmo ..first of her name is also a good choice .

      It will be very funny when people gets to know that YG wouldn’t even survive the Winds to meet Dany when she comes ..only question is whether he dies in the first half or second half of the book

      Those who are thinking he will take KL also may end up wrong..
      You know who else was very close to taking KL
      1) renly
      2) stannis and even
      3) Robb

      He will be very likely sidetracked by events happening at Reach and he may go after it and against euron only to meet his demise ..

      But I like to ask few questions though about YG..

      1) if dany is entitled bitch who thinks she has some type of claim for westeros and IT …what does it make of YG..

      2) if she is bringing war ..what is he bringing ..Goldenarmy who is known for endless rebellions on westeros

      3) if the hate for targaryen is so much as people would like to point out for dany .. why do people think he will be loved so much isn’t he a Targaryen ..

      4) this is specifically for stannis fans ..say if we come to know that he is a fake what do you guys want dany to do ..

      5) just how many have died because of this play by varys to put a perfect prince on the throne and be his puppet master ..

      Why does these things never been spoken about or discussed when it comes to YG like it does with dany ..

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    45. Viz,

      They brought someone who makes clothes with them on the ship. Just like Sansa knows how to make her own clothes. Except Queen Dany can find a real clothes maker to make appropriate new clothes for the winter weather. Also, Missandei went shopping before the departed and picked up some clothes for cold weather in case the clothes maker missed the boat.

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    46. Flayed Potatoes:

      I think the prevailing theory is that YG is Illyrio’s son with a Blackfyre woman.
      I think I read those threads and just assumed it was another Blackfyre theory, another Blackfyre rebellion (the 7th?) 🙂 But it does put a twist on Varys’ “For the realm” statement, right? Is he paving the way in KL for YG or for Dany? One might think he is a Blackfyre proponent but are his intentions considering two invasion waves? Interesting.

      Regarding JonCon, regardless of his naïveté, I’m worried he will serve as an active greyscale vector in Westeros…he may even destroy his company’s ambitions and alliances with a simple touch.

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    47. Ryan:
      HelloThere,

      Nobody’s fault but his own…. he decided he wanted to attend 800 conventions and signings and movie theater events and ball games and writing Wild Cards etc. etc. instead of writing one book in 6 years.

      Yes, Ryan.

      Another idea: WoW is completed but being held back until after publication this fall of an anthology and perhaps until after GoT reaches a certain point, such as end of season 7. Perhaps tinfoil, perhaps maximizing income streams.

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    48. I can’t open any of the spoilers or use reply option that’s why I just made a overall comment and speculations by just guessing how these conversations we will always get ..
      It may be my mobile problem will need to check it out..

      On Title being JelMazmo we already did have valar morghulis and valar Doherys and Mhysa ..
      So we could have another valyrian word title ..

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    49. Hodors Bastard,

      Varys is working for YG. At one point the plan was to marry Dany to YG to strengthen his claim (she is the known Targ after all), but YG got impatient with the waiting and annoyed by Tyrion and he is invading without her. The whole chapter where Tyrion gets under YG’s skin is gold! I think they wanted to meet up in Volantis (I don’t remember) with Dany, but iirc she didn’t want to leave the issues in Slaver’s Bay unresolved. Dany hatching the dragon eggs totally ruined his plans. I don’t think he was expecting it.

      Imo Varys has his coins in many baskets, but his primary plan is to get YG on the throne. Book Varys is really hypocritical and causing tons of chaos in KL to destabilize the Lannisters. Really all the characters in the book are hypocritical to a certain extent in my eyes. Show Varys is very whitewashed so meh.

      I think this would be the 6th Blackfyre Rebellion.

      I’ve seen the theory that Jon Con is going to spread greyscale all over Westeros, and it could happen. What I think the disease will do to him is cause him to make some rash decisions before the disease spreads, in an effort to sit YG on the throne as soon as possible. This will probably screw over YG’s campaign big time.

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    50. Marlana,

      This is what I truly believe.
      Grrm is not someone who is struggling to write. He writes prolifically. Remember for a world of ice and fire, he promised a small number of words and ended up impulsively writing over 100,000. Hes just unable to reign his story back in because he is too much in love with it

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    51. Luka Nieto,

      Didn’t GRRM say that there will be another Dance of dragons? It was hinted at in the first Arianne sample chapter from WoW. So I assumed that there will be a clash between YG and Dany. Unless it’s actually Euron against Dany if he gains control of one of her dragons, idk.

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    52. Dee Stark: How about, “Arrival”?

      I was thinking along the lines of The Return, which would include not only Dany’s return, but Bran’s, Arya’s and in a way, Jaime’s return to KL. Sorry, that’s all I got. Trying to figure out which of the themes the writers would push forth most strongly, and which we are most looking forward to, and it seems to be all the meetings and reunions we (I) look forward to the most.

      it could also mean Melisandre’s return to Dragonstone, where we first met her. I think she was heading in that direction.

      I’m really starting to feel the hype – less than a month. We’ve waited more than a year, we can do this, but I bet the last 2 weeks of waiting will feel like a year. Unless we get another promo, and then we will ride that like a speedboat right into 7/17.

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    53. HelloThere: Such a beautiful image

      But I am sad, because I really wanted to experience this moment from GRRM first.

      I suppose you could wait to watch it until after you read of her return first…. 😛

      Looking at the picture longer I start wondering what each character would truly be feeling at that moment. You know, other than Jacob wishing Emilia would slide over a bit so he could be in the picture. Daenerys would have no memories of Dragonstone, with possibly just descriptions from Viserys who was only ~8 when they left. It has to be completely foreign and look a tad creepy to Missandei and Grey Worm. I suppose Tyrion and Varys are mostly wondering about any resistance they’ll encounter upon beaching… Hmm, I wonder if the dragons will be curious about dragon statues on the castle? 🙂

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    54. For GoT fans in the Beltway the Nationals are having GoT night this Friday, including a Dragon Egg hunt throughout the metro area. Washington Post tomorrow will have all the details with maps and clues to the eggs. Eggs are filled with goodies, besides passes to game the happy hunters get to have their picture taken of them seated on the Iron Throne. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2017/06/19/nationals-will-hide-dragon-eggs-ahead-of-game-of-thrones-night/?utm_term=.2280eb981ac1

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    55. Marlana: Reminds me of the painting George Washington Crossing the Delaware.

      Yeah, I said it reminded me of the scene in 508 when Jon arrives at Hardhome – in the DVD audio commentary, it is mentioned (though I forget by whom) that the script actually said Jon’s arrival should look like George Washington crossing the Delaware (though apparently with better hair!).

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    56. Vanessa,

      Slayer of lies can mean just metaphorical slays and not literally killing ..
      Remember stannis and other lie she is supposed to slay ..
      It makes 3 lies and we know how stannis’s arc is going to end ..
      Imagine the uproar of dany ends up killing stannis ,Yg ,and possibly euron the third lie ..

      HelloThere,

      I mentioned about what the slaying could mean ..

      For me this vision is more about varys than YG himself …varys is as much as danger to the realm like LF is but somehow he gets escape and have good image with fans ..

      Now its just vision about a puupet show ..
      So ofcourse there will be people looking at it ..
      When I first finished ADWD my thoughts were he is just a boy with valyrain features who varys and illyrio try to use as a puppet for their plans after they had found out Gregor clegane smashed Aegon’s face ..
      The boy himself may believe he is Rhaegar’s son and Joncon is fooling himself and wanting to prove himself and show his love for rhaegar despite having doubts on varys and illyrio

      And nothing I have seen so far have made me change my opinion…
      We just have to wait till the books come out to know this…

        Quote  Reply

    57. Luka Nieto: I hope to be wrong, though. I love those details, however unnecessary they may be.

      Since Selyse and Shireen also went with Stannis, I’d say much of the household staff would have been in the entourage as they traveled. Stannis would probably have left a few soldiers to guard the place and a bit of household staff to maintain it. My thinking was, once whomever was left at Dragonstone heard of Stannis’s defeat, would they stay? There would be no hope of being paid – they would probably stay and fend for themselves just to have shelter, but there would be no loyalty left. To whom would they profess their loyalty if even Shireen is dead? So, yeah, if they see huge ships and dragons coming, they bend the knee and hope for the best or run/row for the mainland.

      As for details of determining who is still left, Tyrion could mention to Dany that there was still household staff left, the old ones who couldn’t flee, and they are showing the troops around and revealing any remaining food or supplies. I like those details, too, only don’t let GRRM know. He’ll add even more details to his work and never finish the books. LOL

        Quote  Reply

    58. Hodors Bastard,

      You mean the advisor who is actually thinking about crowning his niece Myrcella as queen and go to war against his nephew Tommen ..so that he can enjoy his sister cersei’s agony..

      Or other advisor who says he is all about the good of the realm and completely failed to do his duty as Master of whisperer and conspired to bring in a dothraki invasion and have the last two targs as scapegoat for that invasion only to be rescued by his prefect Prince ..

      So many good advisors right …maybe they should try to read those history first don’t you think ..

        Quote  Reply

    59. Marlana,

      Great eye, and it was probably intentional. The funny thing is… That’s one of several inaccuracies in the painting. Had Washington been standing, the boat would have capsized!

        Quote  Reply

    60. dragonbringer: So many good advisors right …

      Hah! Team Dany is in for a rude awakening. Do you agree? I miss Selmy.

      I’ve always maintained the position that Dany is only adding to the building clusterfuck as she tries to forcefully repeat history, especially with YG in the picture. She and her dragons may have a significant role to play in the endgame, but I believe Dany is leading her non-indigenous constituents to their eventual doom. I’ll bet on that outcome as much as I bet on the WW/wight army attacking weirnet central.

      I’m guessing that the pending War of the Infinite Wannabe King/Queens will be much more devastating than the eventual WW/NK/wight vs survivors conflict.

        Quote  Reply

    61. dragonbringer,

      Now this is a fun discussion that I haven’t seen in awhile.

      Fans have certainly had these arguments about YG, but the arguments kind of became moot when he didn’t make the show.
      1. He definitely comes off as arrogant and entitled. Tyrion remarks upon his behavior in his chapter. JonCon notes his “confidence” as he pushes JC out of his inner circle.
      2. He’s certainly bringing war and destruction with him thus the dance of dragons reference made in Arienne’s chapter.
      3. Arguments are only made that he’ll be beloved because of Dany’s HotU vision.
      4. I’m kinda confused about this one. Are you asking what Dany should do to YG if he’s a phony Dragon? I didn’t get why this is aimed at Stannis fans. Either way, if you trust the interpretation, she’s the slayer of lies.
      5. Book Varys is much more grey than Show Varys and his motives are much more suspect.
      At this point YG is only relevant to book fans and his role is going to basically move the plot forward for other characters.
      He obviously isn’t an end game character.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Hodors Bastard,

      You want me talk about selmy too …

      My point is dany is far more better than these so called advisors who had known so much history and knowledgeable..she is not brainless she is actually for more bright and intelligent than you guys give credit for ..

      We will see even if she is going to end up as doomed character she will end up as an agent of change ..and a good change at that..

      We will see

      Tywin’s Ghost,

      As far as I remember I never seen anyone actually bring this up in westeros.org..if it happens it would be dany fans asking why doesn’t the same apply to YG..

      You know how it is with Stannis fans and you will see many fans of his supporting YG and bashing dany for killing him or going war against him ( something doesn’t even happened yet)… If you think about it they should be last ones to complain about it because see how much they support stannis and how he is one true king and others are either bastards or usurper like renly and how he is right and doing duty… Why wouldn’t same applied for dany for her house is being headed by an imposter

      Him being not an end game character but a secondary character who moves the story forward was so obvious from the start but people never wanted to believe that ..same goes for stannis

        Quote  Reply

    63. Hodors Bastard: Hah! Team Dany is in for a rude awakening. Do you agree? I miss Selmy.

      For all his wisdom, Selmy was/is no Machiavelli.

      Even though I truly like Barristan as a character both on the show and in the books, he has never seemed like a particularly pertinent political advisor to me. He did manage to communicate the horrors of Aerys’s reign to Daenerys, which was a definite positive, but that is about it. The be-all-and-end-all of his policy advice tends to be “don’t do what your father did”. In and of itself, it is fairly harmless however I believe it would hardly qualify as particularly constructive. Since I can only assume Aerys breathed air, I fear Barristan might end up asking the Queen to consider perpetual apnea ! ^^

      On page and on screen, Daenerys’s government is, for lack of a more charitable word, a mess. All of its members converse endlessly about the Targaryens, loyalty, the greater good, justice, history, duty, legacy and, above all else, faith ! However, no one comes up with any kind of policy.
      How would the judicial institution in Yunkai have to be transformed to take into account the potentially mutually exclusive needs and interests of the city’s dual citizenry ? Could a new tax policy be devised in Astapor so as to compensate the former slaves for centuries of economic exploitation ? Who should be part of the Meereenese State’s legislative branch ? What political regime should be put in place in those cities after the Queen’s departure ?
      Not a single member of Daenerys’s cabinet, and that includes the Mother of Dragons herself, seems to know or care. Admittedly, I have not re-read the books or rewatched the entirety of the show in quite some time now so I very well may be forgetting something but I cannot, for the life of me, remember a single conversation between Daenerys and anyone (or an inner monologue from the Mother of Dragons) about any of those topics. From a political standpoint, this is rather staggering.

      I’m guessing that the pending War of the Infinite Wannabe King/Queens will be much more devastating than the eventual WW/NK/wight vs survivors conflict.

      That would be beautifully ironic indeed.

      Forgive me for asking a very stupid question but has any character asked what the White Walkers / Others want ? From what we know, they were created by the Children of the Forest to kill humans. But seemingly, they turned against their “Pygmalions” who then preferred to make a deal with the aforementioned humans against their creatures. Why did the Others turn ? What did they hope to achieve ? Territorial expansion ? Genocide ?

      Can they be handled in a non-violent way ? Craster made a deal with them and one can only be puzzled as to how that came about. Did he negociate with them ? If so, how ? We also have to wonder whether the White Walkers can only come from human males (we have yet to see a girl Other) or Craster chose to sacrifice only his sons because his daughters were more “useful” to him.

      We still know so very little about them…

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    64. Luka Nieto:
      Home would be great too, if not for the fact the second episode of season six was titled Home.

      Oh lord, you are right ! Does it show that I never pay real attention to episodes’ titles ? 😉

        Quote  Reply

    65. Hodors Bastard,

      I’m guessing that the pending War of the Infinite Wannabe King/Queens will be much more devastating than the eventual WW/NK/wight vs survivors conflict.

      Of course it is ..
      Those who escaped the War of five kings will become involved in war if three queens Arianne from Dorne and Cersei from western lands and Margery and olenna tyrell from Reach ..

      Its a good thing dany will have the supplies that will stop the war and finish all those small battles as swift
      as possible

      ACME,

      Well you are not going to get any of those details from the show ..

      In the books dany is actually making trade with lhazreen and provided a huge region to do farming and cultivate and they have planted olive tress ..any more details will have to wait for next book because she has to face threats from within and out side the city and facing huge outbreak of deadly disease and having to feed those people ..

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    66. Dee Stark:
      I really wonder what episode 1 will be called. it will be tied to this event, clearly.

      How about, “Arrival”?
      its ugly. but cant think of anything else

      Hmm… possible titles for episode one?
      Dragonstone
      Stormborn
      Daughter of Dragons
      The Shores of Westeros
      Two Queens
      King in the North

        Quote  Reply

    67. Hodors Bastard: Hah! Team Dany is in for a rude awakening. Do you agree? I miss Selmy.

      Selmy was a good judge of character, a great protector and general. He was not a good advisor as a whole, especially when it comes to tricky poltics.

        Quote  Reply

    68. HelloThere,

      Yes, HelloThere, I agree. All these years of claims of “slow writer” and fans posting that “they understand he needs to write without pressure of due date” have never made sense to me.

      He wrote for deadline for a decade in Hollywood and wrote prolifically in other genres. He has chosen to invest his time and energy in his preferred activities.

      Fans would love to see him focus and complete ASoIaF the story, not world of, history of, historical characters of, alternate universes of, costumes of, weapons of, correlations of, or any other of.

        Quote  Reply

    69. dragonbringer,
      I am terribly sorry to say but I cannot agree with your assessment that the lack of policy is a show problem. It is very much a Book!Daenerys problem as well.

      The deal with Lhazar, the camp of sick Astapori outside of Meereen, etc. All of that amounts to jumping from crisis to crisis, sadly allowing each new struggle to fuse with others and snowball more and more… It is not by coincidence that the Mother of Dragons is visited by the memory of Eroeh when witnessing the unspeakable misery of the Astapori refugees sick and dying of the blood flux.

      Daenerys’s approach to government tends to be the political equivalent of placing meek bandages on suppurating wounds. Institutions are the very embodiment of any social contract and so far, the Mother of Dragons has not put in place any viable new institution.

      I should probably make clear that I do not dislike Daenerys at all. If anything, I find her admirable. But after her failures in Yunkai and in Astapor, Meereen is her third attempt and I, both as a reader and as a viewer, am running out of forgiveness. Sooner rather than later, she will sail back to Westeros so she will not have to face the long term consequences of her political mistakes in the Bay nor will she have to suffer the effects of the slavers’ retaliation or the chaos of dictatorship. The former slavers and slaves will. The very same people who call her “mother”.

      I might be harsh but I expect better from a mother. And a self-appointed ruler.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Alba Stark,

      Thanks for DVD comment. Writers deliberately specifying that image is a definite LOL. Jon also looked like Washington Crossing the Delaware.

      In USA NJ, reenactors recreate that moment from the war for independence, so pictures of Washington Crossing the Delaware, both the art and the current reenactment, appear in the papers each year. Generally, the weather is cold, icy, sleety, and miserably uncomfortable.

        Quote  Reply

    71. ACME: Even though I truly like Barristan as a character both on the show and in the books, he has never seemed like a particularly pertinent political advisor to me. He did manage to communicate the horrors of Aerys’s reign to Daenerys, which was a definite positive, but that is about it.

      I appreciate your response.

      Selmy was intriguing as a LC of the Kingsguard, battle-tested warrior and Westeros defector. I think he was the closest thing that Dany had (assuming he succumbs early in TWoW) to a KL-insider and conscientious objector before Tyrion arrives in her inner-circle. Yes, I believe Dany learned a lot from him, even as a parental figure, and she must have been able to compare his ideas with those of Viserys. I thought they were two interesting extremes…then you must add Drogo, Missandei and a slew of others. That balance should propel her into a formidable leader (she grappled with her identity in her last ADwD chapter) in her continued journey east then west.

      Hopefully, Victarion is a non-factor for her, like Qwentin.

      ACME: On page and on screen, Daenerys’s government is, for lack of a more charitable word, a mess. All of its members converse endlessly about the Targaryens, loyalty, the greater good, justice, history, duty, legacy and, above all else, faith !

      This is part of Dany’s bittersweet tale. She means well but what will truly come of her presence in Slaver’s Bay after she leaves? Daario? Hah! Shavepate? A Khal? Who will continue her “good work”? The same goes for her travel to Westeros. She means well and I hope she institutes change (like db hopes) but I think it will be a bittersweet journey for her legions of followers…possibly some success but ultimately a sad experiment, like the wildlings up north.

      ACME: Forgive me for asking a very stupid question but has any character asked what the White Walkers / Others want ?

      Oh we’ve debated this for several years now to no obvious conclusion (just wait til Wimsey reads this!) . I’m biased in my assumptions that Bran and Sam will “see and learn” non-violent treaty-oriented stuff from Bran the Builder days and others will fill the various AA roles. Why are they so misunderstood? Will it be just visions and books that will pave the way?

        Quote  Reply

    72. ACME,

      About the Others: Just because the CotF claim to be creators of the Others does not mean they are reliable narrators. When we find out what the Others want, we may also learn the Others’ creation story.

        Quote  Reply

    73. Marlana:

      Thanks for DVD comment. Writers deliberately specifying that image is a definite LOL. Jon also looked like Washington Crossing the Delaware.

      InUSA NJ, reenactors recreate that moment from the war for independence, so pictures of Washington Crossing the Delaware, both the art and the current reenactment, appear in the papers each year.Generally, the weather is cold, icy, sleety, and miserably uncomfortable.

      Sounds a lot like I’d imagine the weather at Hardhome to be! 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    74. Hodors Bastard: Yes, I believe Dany learned a lot from him, even as a parental figure, and she must have been able to compare his ideas with those of Viserys.

      You are very probably onto something here…
      Barristan, while not a political advisor in the purest sense of the term, does have a strong purpose as a moral compass, like Luka intimated.

      She means well but what will truly come of her presence in Slaver’s Bay after she leaves? Daario? Hah! Shavepate? A Khal? Who will continue her “good work”?

      That is what worries me the most.
      Any durable legacy requires a form of institutional transcendance, a structural dimension that overwhelms and surpasses the individual (“the king is dead, long live the king”). Daenerys’s power, conversely, tends to be extremely “incarnate” : she is the State. If she leaves, the State leaves with her.

      I’m biased in my assumptions that Bran and Sam will “see and learn” non-violent treaty-oriented stuff from Bran the Builder days and others will fill the various AA roles.

      Well, it has been a while since a deal was last made on the Isle of Faces… ^^

      I appreciate your response.

      I am sorry to ask but was my answer to you rude ?
      English is not my native language and I have a tendency to mistreat my syntax which, I fear, may make my sentences appear “harsh”. Add to that the baseline rudeness inherent to any French person (^^) and I feel like, at times, my posts sound more disrespectful, for lack of a better word, than I wish them to be.
      If so, all my apologies 🙂

      Marlana,
      That is an intriguing thought indeed… But Bran did “witness” Leaf’s creation of the first White Walker on weirwood.com, didn’t he ? Do the Children of the Forest have the power to manipulate a greenseer’s visions ?

        Quote  Reply

    75. ACME: I am sorry to ask but was my answer to you rude ?

      No way. Sometimes I just feel the need to extend my appreciation. Any feedback, whether it is silly or genuine (I tend to toggle) is valuable. As we discussed a few days back, perspectives matter in this convoluted curriculum!

        Quote  Reply

    76. Hodors Bastard,

      And barristan never had a problem with her in the books ..why is that..

      ACME,

      I think its the writers problem …show just ignored it and GrRm will try to give some additional details than the show ..he wrote himself into this corner when he swapped his five year gap plan because he has already made dany stay in meeren in ASoS..

      You are right and dany actually has the same thought and fear but eventually those things takes time to actually successful and dany already is having her plate full and handling those problems that are thrown at her for now ..
      Its not like people in slavers bay don’t know any other policies of government ..they should not expect everything to be done by dany take up the responsiblity and must stand up..because ultimately this is a story that requires dany to make move on to westeros..
      There will be no one to force their power in ther anymore because all are eradicated and dany has taken Dothraki under her …the masters now must learn to integrate with the people and live ..and those who are giving the protection will be dany’s own men who would not going to stupidly go against her ..so the mistake of astopor won’t be repeated..

      Something will be unbelievable and we needed to make believe but its also fantasy ..What I say may be boring or obvious or not believable but that’s exactly how show finished the arc and eventually so will be the books ..

      By the way you never comes across rude in any of your comments. .

        Quote  Reply

    77. ACME:

      English is not my native language and I have a tendency to mistreat my syntax which, I fear, may make my sentences appear “harsh”. Add to that the baseline rudeness inherent to any French person (^^) and I feel like, at times, my posts sound more disrespectful, for lack of a better word, than I wish them to be.

      I live in what is arguably the least literate country in the industrialized world, and I can assure you that your English is better than that of 99% of all Americans I have ever met. (I was born and raised in Brazil of American parents, and my mother was the only person with whom I spoke English until I was 11.)

      Also, your posts never sound disrespectful.

        Quote  Reply

    78. ACME: Bran did “witness” Leaf’s creation of the first White Walker on weirwood.com,

      Even with the weirwood vision, I don’t trust the CotF claim to create the WW. My hunch is that GoT will carry this version through to the end, but ASoIaF will detail a different version and the Isle of Faces will figure in the resolution. There is room for CotF treachery.

      The wildlings have relationships with original residents of Westeros, such as giants, mastodons, direbears, but not with CotF. The Wildling acceptance of indigenous creatures and skinchangers, but not CotF and WWs, who also live north of the wall, make me suspicious of CotF.

      COtF and WWs are so different from the pre-historic creatures the Wildlings somewhat domesticated that I suspect the CotF and WWs are not indigenous, as we have been led to believe.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Luka Nieto: Selmy was a good judge of character, a great protector and general. He was not a good advisor as a whole, especially when it comes to tricky poltics.

      Hmm. I must disagree. In addition to the points I raised with ACME earlier today, Selmy ‘was’ extremely valuable to Dany’s lofty goals…almost hurtfully so. He unveiled Jorah’s initial deceitful mission, implying the vile actions of the Small Council. Throughout ASoS and ADwD, Selmy advises Dany on this or that, including info about her father’s descent into insanity, which I extrapolated to be one of many conversations about Westeros rule and politics.

      Of course, all of them were fish out of water trying to govern Meereen and maintain her standards in other Slavers Bay cities, but Selmy was the best Dany had for a while. Even Tywin admitted that losing Selmy “was folly.”

      Who was a better advisor for her ultimate plan to invade Westeros? Yes, I rather enjoy the multi-generational tutor-pupil aspect to them!

      It’s interesting that as soon as Selmy exits stage left via the damn SotH and “Sound the attack!”, Tyrion conveeeeeeniently steps in to fill his shoes (I’m assuming TWoW will somehow reach the same point, with more chaos). 🙂

      dragonbringer: And barristan never had a problem with her in the books ..why is that..

      I don’t understand the question…unless you’re implying that Dany didn’t mind having Selmy as an advisor. He did have trouble with her close circle initially, which is why he chose to remain unknown for a while.

        Quote  Reply

    80. Hodors Bastard,

      No from his own words he wanted to see dany is worth following and not like aerys or viserys …
      And he decided to pledge himself after believing in herself ..

      Iam just asking why the book barristan doesn’t seem to be bothered by dany like the show barristan does..
      Its not just him ..the portrayal of hizdar and tyrion and jorah all bothered and constantly questioning her or bringing up aerys ..I wonder why the show is doing that when the canon is opposite of what they are doing ..

      daenerys keeps asking him for advice he keeps reapeating let’s go to westeros..he did tell her about stories of rhaegar and only time he actually said something against her is about how Ned was a good guy ..remember he is the one actually who keeps saying that dany will find allies in westeros and we can go now from Storm of swords ..

      Whatever his fault maybe jorah is the best advisor for dany and he has always given her best of his advise…
      I just don’t like how show has made it all about jorah’s love and POV rather than dany’s pov like we really didnt see dany worrying about jorah or thinking about him after she banished him …even in departing scenes its jorah we get to see and not dany ..
      He was the best advisor for dany ..

      The thing is dany goes by the principle “A Good Queen should listen to all her people ” and she makes them all speak their minds even those who doesnt speak like greyworm or others she encourages to speak and tell her their thoughts and then only then she makes a decision ..

        Quote  Reply

    81. dragonbringer,
      You are entirely right : no one can legitimately be expected to transform an ancestral hotbed of slavery into some democratic oasis overnight. Nation-building is a long, strenuous and complex process. However, institutions can be created to speed it up and structures can be implemented to ensure its stability and durability.
      So far, none of that has been done in any of the places ruled by Daenerys.

      You write that the inhabitants of the Bay’s cities could and should take part in that effort and, to an extent, I understand and agree with your position. Nevertheless, we have to take into consideration that, up until extremely recently, the vast majority of those inhabitants were slaves. They have no idea how to be citizens. Political experience, understanding and knowledge unfortunately cannot be willed into existence by a supremely well-meaning, gorgeous young woman with dragons.

      In this regard, we can compare and contrast the cities of the Bay with Braavos.

      Braavos was built over centuries, solely by escaped slaves. Its founders took their time to figure out who they were and what they wanted to be. They first organised on a micro level, isolated and protected from the threat of their former masters. In this tiny bubble, they could afford to try and fail and try again without risk, until they found what worked for them. And incrementally, the city grew to become one of the most potent in the world. They crawled before they walked and then, they ran !
      Conversely, the former slaves and slavers of Yunkai, Astapor and Meereen were forced to figure out a completely new way to operate on a large scale, virtually from one day to the next. Daenerys basically threw her subjects in at the deep end without teaching them how to swim beforehand. The only logical outcome is that they will drown.

      I can forgive Tommen for being a weak, ineffectual ruler because of his age and, more importantly, because he had no say in his accession to the throne. I will forgive Jon if he turns out not to be a good monarch because a crown was basically thrown onto his skull without his consent. But Daenerys chose to become queen; she has sought and claimed that position. Again and again. So I instinctively expect more from her.

      Furthermore, Meereen is her third trial and, as far as I am concerned, this inability to put any kind of institutional structure in place is becoming inexcusable. By now, the Mother of Dragons should know better for she is more than intelligent and willing enough. If she does not set up Meereen properly, I will have to conclude that her political acumen is flawed on a fundamental level.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Marlana,
      You may very well have a point here !

      Hodors Bastard,
      I am relieved ! And the appreciation is very much mutual ^^

      Wolfish,
      It is extremely flattering coming from you considering your English is superb ! 🙂
      And it is reassuring to hear I do not sound as harsh as I believe I sometimes do…

        Quote  Reply

    83. I love Emilia as an actress. And I really, really hope she and the producers capture the emotions that would be swirling around Dany on arrival. I don’t necessarily want to see her in stoic conquerer mode. I want to see joy and triumph and terror and sadness and vulnerability and hope and determination. All those things someone might feel when they’ve been dreaming of home their whole life, wanting it so much and having it unfurl before you.

      I’m not talking a stray tear or eyes welling, then back to business. I’m talking the kind of scene where you’re mesmerized by the emotions crossing someone’s face. It’s an iconic moment and I really really hope they got it right!! 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    84. ACME,

      Not all slaves are like unsullied but many grow up to higher rankings and wield power ..many in the ranks of scholars healers and priests they need to take Responsibility and come into their own

      Iam very confident that we will see dany setting up some sort of organization or standards to speed up the process and we will get to see those details on TWOW…meereen is a trial i agree and exactly there to make the mistakes of astopor right one not to repeat the same mistake ..and no matter how poorly it was done in the show looking at the show how they ended the arc makes me confident

      We will see once Winds comes out

        Quote  Reply

    85. dragonbringer,
      You are completely right to say that there is a small group of high-ranking slaves but, unfortunately, that group is nowhere near as significant enough to constitute governments. Furthemore, lower-ranking slaves tend to resent them for their relative privileges… I would be tempted to guess that the three members of the Astapori ruling council were among those educated former slaves (we know they were a scholar, a priest and a healer; I am not certain we were told whether they used to be property) and they got overthrown by a butcher !

      Very subjectively, I have never had the feeling that D&D were politically naive. While they do not dedicate as much time to the intrincacies of policy-making as the books do, their writing strikes me as realpolitik-oriented. As such, I find extremely hard to believe that the resolution they gave to Daenerys’s Meereen rule was meant to be viewed as glorious… They left Daario in charge ! Daario, the former mercenary-turned-boyfriend, a man with about as much political acumen as a goose whom the Mother of Dragons dumped. Quite unceremoniously to boot.

      They could have handled her departure in a much more politically sound and reassuring way. They have the know-how. They could have brought in a dozen of extras and have Daenerys identify them as the “representatives of all the guilds” in Meereen (whatever that may mean), give them a few instructions on how the citizenry was to cooperate in the future and order Daario to stay behind as head of the army. It would have been vague and not entirely believable but it still would have been more politically credible than expecting Daenerys’s unqualified ex to take charge.

      I may be completely wrong here but I feel that the way D&D handled the Queen’s departure was meant to imply Meereen was not going to fare well. It is a purely subjective opinion of course, but Daario-cracy is so blatantly incompetent an option I cannot believe they thought the viewers would applaud it and call it a day.

      Thus, to me, the question is : did they take their cue from what they know of George RR Martin’s plans for Meereen ? IF so, oh boy !

      As you very rightly say, we’ll have to wait for The Winds of Winter to find out.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Clob: Cool!

      The Twins are doing their GoT night on July 6th.
      Fans will receive a t-shirt of Miguel Sano in a cloak:

      How can they? I thought Lord Walder and his son-lieutenants were dead. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    87. ACME:
      dragonbringer,

      They could have handled her departure in a much more politically sound and reassuring way. They have the know-how. They could have brought in a dozen of extras and have Daenerys identify them as the “representatives of all the guilds” in Meereen (whatever that may mean), give them a few instructions on how the citizenry was to cooperate in the future and order Daario to stay behind as head of the army. It would have been vague and not entirely believable but it still would have been more politically credible than expecting Daenerys’s unqualified ex to take charge.

      As I understood it, that is pretty much what happened.

      You’re staying here with the Second Sons.
      There’s finally peace in Meereen.
      You will keep the peace while the people choose their own leaders.

      Specific orders will be left for you regarding the welfare of Meereen and the Bay of Dragons.

      Daario is only asked to serve as a neutral force (to maintain the peace) while the people of Meereen choose their own leaders. As you state, it’s not entirely believable but it’s not like Daario is king of Meereen. Surely we are meant to believe that there is peace in the “Bay of Dragons”, at least until we’re told otherwise.

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    88. Jay Targ,
      You are right that he is not king but he is the only person in charge. There is literally no one else at the moment, no other person with a Mhysa stamp of approval.

      That’s why I mentioned the idea of some sort of civil representation via “guilds”. It would have looked like the beginning of a semblance of something akin to institutional power. Even if it had been just in the form of a transitional government, tasked with running the city while its inhabitants figure out what they want, it would have been more credible than what we got. Which is nothing.

      At the moment, TV!Meereen is sans government and its people is expected to manufacture one out of the blue. What the city does have though is former slaves with little to no financial resources, former slavers with quite a few coins stacked away and a recently-dumped man in charge of an army used to fighting for the highest bidder… I cannot help but find this list worrying. But maybe I am being overly pessimistic.

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    89. ACME,

      Iam not saying they are naive but they just don’t care anymore …they stopped caring about these small details for a couple of seasons now ..

      Instead of showing us and telling us they want us to believe ..
      As jay targ said we are supposed to believe those events mentioned happened actually ..

      We don’t have to wait for TWOw …let’s say they are setting up this to show how its another failure and meereen ends up worse. .

      Don’t you think it will brought up in season 7 ..
      If it brought up then iam wrong and you got right
      If its never brought up then iam right and you got wrong ..
      That should work fine don’t you think. .

      For the record I don’t think darrio will betray dany at least not after he saw her coming out of flames ..he is not going to be administrator or part of the government ..he is just going to be the enforcer of dany who overlooks thinks don’t go the same way it did in astopor ..people can select their leaders all they want the moment a butcher tries to rise up we will have darrio and his second sons ..In the books it will be lot more other armies like mother’s men and such that ..

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    90. Hodors Bastard:
      Oh we’ve debated this for several years now to no obvious conclusion (just wait til Wimsey reads this!) . I’m biased in my assumptions that Bran and Sam will “see and learn” non-violent treaty-oriented stuff from Bran the Builder days and others will fill the various AA roles. Why are they so misunderstood? Will it be just visions and books that will pave the way?

      I’m sure I’ll not the first to have this thought – are there any documented theories out there suggesting that the Long Night/Last Hero/Azor Ahai is not history – but in fact those stories originate from the reality that we are about to see play out? that there is some kind of time warp (also messing up the seasons), and/or from the interference of Bran/BR, with full knowledge of what’s coming, creating those stories/legends as if they were in the past? It’s not making sense as I try to write it.
      I think I did see or hear one reference, maybe in a youtube video, suggesting specifically that what Rhaegar read (that caused him to declare he needed to be a warrior) was a story planted by BR(?) to try to change (or ensure) the outcome of the war to come. I’m not on any forums so wondering if there are any elaborate theories of this nature. I mean, everyone talks about who is really Azor Ahai in the current characters, but as if this AA is different than the original. That means the same thing happening twice, 1000 (?)years apart, with different people. In a fantasy world where there are time travelers (sort of) and a season lasts for years, seems just as likely that the current AA *is* the original?

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