On our next episode, a podcast will head beyond the wall — now with the perspective of extra days and secondary viewings. Needless to say, there are things that must be discussed.
After the cut you’ll find three questions we’ve asked ourselves, and will be disputing as the show records. The season finale is almost here!
Listen to “Beyond the Wall” here.
What do you believe?
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl lol
That’s it. Let us know what and why in the comments below! Make sure to listen for your thoughts, theories, and input once this episode is released.
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
Well, she is not alone. Jaime is the commander of her army.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
Destroying the world.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react
I don’t think they will have time to care that much about that, since the WW will be there. And they need Dany to save them all.
1. I think she will both be convinced and still be planning something. If they are able to bring that wight and convince folks, then who wouldn’t be convinced? But at the same time this is Cersei…..she has something in mind.
2. At some point, most likely next season, they have to cross the wall. That has been teased for a long time now and is inevitable. I have no idea how they are going to do that but I’m guessing it has something to do with Bran fucking up.
3. It’s a good thing. The Northern Lords will react poorly. But perhaps the impending invasion of the Night’s King and army will convince them.
Will CleganeBowl actually happen? I have my doubts with 7 episodes left. In any case, it’s not really the mountain anymore is it?
I’ll add a 4th question. What is Euron’s role in the endgame?
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
Nope. She’ll look at it as a way to kill off her enemies and consolidate the south. And she’ll be more interested in killing Tyrion than listening to Jamie.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
The Wall will Fall. And I’m betting the Ice Dragon is the key to that. Been a lot of speculation in spoilerland that the wall would be the end shot of Season 7 and I’m going with that prediction.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
Like dumbasses. I think they are going to scatter and all die horrible deaths as a result of their petty territoriality. Only the Starks will survive because they have Bran. I think either Littlefinger or Sansa will be offed in the last episiode; (we’re due at least one major character death, right?) so maybe Sansa dies and Arya takes her face.
cleganebowl? Not gonna happen yet. The Hound now knows that there are more important fights ahead so he won’t be lured into a silly personal squabble.
Not an answer to the questions but I hope you guys talk about the wights behaviour last episode. I’m surprised nobody is talking about it because that was one of the most interesting things in the episode. We saw a lot of emotions coming from wights.
-The captured one crying for help (aren’t they zombies that are basically remote controlled? why is he screaming for help?)
-The army getting “demoralised” when they kick the captured wight on the lake
-The chinless wight (thanks to hound) losing temper and marching towards them…
That’s a lot of personality coming from zombies. Is it sloppy writing/directing or are we being prepared for a revelation about the nature of army of the dead?
Also is it just me or the night king has a sad face this season? Look at his pictures from hard home and look at his face this season. :))
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
Honestly I really think Cersei will believe them but will not be so willingly to follow Jon and Dany, I mean she knows the end game is if they win against the army of the dead then war will resume and if Cersei loses more soldiers than the rest of them, she is screwed, not sure how this will play out but Cersei will probably be the only one NOT to follow suit with the rest.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
well I think this is probably the most obvious and that’s the take the wall down with the help of the dragon.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
At first the northern lords may not react so positively so it will take something dramatic like Dany surviving being burnt like she did with the other Khals, but I think she will win their trust, but something tells me that Jon and Dany (while falling for each other) would marry to join their houses
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl lol
BOUT TIME! (hopefuly :S)
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
– She will be convinced but she is at a point of no return. I can see her trying to take out as many enemies as she can with Zombie Mountain or Euron. I really think Jamie will step up and finally realize she’s crazy. Plus Brieanne will be there! Thrones has foreshadowed their evolving relationship for past 4 seasons.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
– The Wall is donzo, sorry Edd yourre toast.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
– Starks have to come together! Hoping Bran steps up big time in the finale and can use his magic or family name to convince the Northern Lords to stop bitchin and prepare for the zombie hord.
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl lol
Very hyped! i have a sense it will be like the “Mountain vs Viper” duel. Everyone in Westeros is there to watch!
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
Cersei may or may not be convinced that something is going on beyond the Wall. But that will not change her strategy. She will encourage everyone, especially Daenerys, to go with their armies up north, so she can take over the rest of the continent when her Golden Company arrives…… 😀
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
They will just continue down south at their slow, steady, inexorable pace. But now with fViserion.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
The North will bitch and moan and rant about Jon bending the knee. Then when the North is attacked and Daenerys’s armies fight for them, they will instantly change their minds. The North changes direction with whatever way the wind blows.
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl lol
Not much.
Gregor killed Jon’s half-brother and half-sister and Daenerys’s niece and nephew. Those were completely UNJUSTIFIED deaths. The two Targs should destroy him – preferably through Dragon or Rhaegal.
dragonreborn,
I think partially the Wights are controlled by the White Walkers but as a shell of your former self you may display some intelligence/emotion (although Raw emotion) as seen in Hardhome that the Wights did not go far into the water by mindlessly going deep into the water. but I do see your point, they did show a bit more than I anticipated
1. Cersei will decide that the Night King is her natural ally.
2. The Night King will destroy the Wall (still not sure how) and then he can fly directly to KL and take the Iron Throne (the wild fire left under the city by the Mad King may become quite handy after all).
3. The Northern Lords shouldn’t have problems with accepting the savour but the problem is that now Dany’s dragons become pretty unusable: losing another dragon would double the airforce of the dead and make the Night King practically unbeatable. So, it’s really inteesting how the living are going to fight now (I’m affraidthat Dany will have to taranate wight Viserion and take it out at the cost of her own life, not to mention the dragons).
As for Cleganebowl, it doesn’t matter really any more, though someone will have to take out the Mountain to take out Cersei after all.
Quite an… interesting… interpretation of wight behavior. I didn’t see emotion in 1, more like they are controlled by Walkers and the shrieking was a built in mechanism to summon more of the army. In 2nd point i didn’t get demoralized, i got anger but in more of the, one gets hit they all react because they are all connected via magic way. Third point, just wrong. He didn’t lose his temper, he saw the second rock didn’t break the ice and went forward.
Also, if we don’t get Clegane Bowl this so we never will. HYPE.
1.) Cersei’s never cared about anything other than what Cersei wants. More so now that her children are gone. Heck, 2 episodes she was manipulating Jaime. I think when Dany swoops down into the dragon pit mounted on Drogon, Cersei will soil her small clothes. A man can dream.
2.) At the end of the episode the NK will use the dragon to blow The Wall up. That’s kinda funny though considering the only dead thing The Wall has kept in the north is Uncle Benjen. RIP Benjen.
3.) I’m 100% over what The Northern Lords want. What absolute babies. Jon should have made a pit stop in WF to show that wight to them. Speaking of stopping in WF, am I allowed to be pretty ticked that Ghost has been MIA? I’m like an 8.5/10 on the ticked scale about it.
This season has been 100% entertaining but it has not been of the depth or quality of past seasons. The shortened season really doesn’t give the drama a chance to breathe. There have been great moments, but it has lacked consistency. When it’s fantastic it’s fantastic and when it’s bad it’s an unmitigated disaster.
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
She gonna go full #SeptofBaelor on their asses. She even hinted heavily on this in ep5.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
The wall will be destroyed, obvz.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
Sansa will bind them to their cause.
1. Yes, and she will plan to use it to her advantage.
Which would make no sense considering the stakes, but would keep a human antagonist in the story so what the hell, I guess.
2. I don’t think the North will like it and I think it’ll create the conflict they want it to between Jon and Sansa. The problem is, as with anything else, as soon as you introduce an existential threat with a supernatural antagonist dedicated to the ending of all life, then such human drama becomes almost meaningless.
3. I doubt there’s a strategic plan – they’ll just work their way south killing everything in their path. Although, I have a theory that the final conflict might take place on the Gods’ Eye. That may be just me though. There has to be something more to the NK’s plan than just killing everyone or that doesn’t leave much room for an interesting plot.
4. Not really. I think it’s largely fan fiction and won’t happen in the books. The Hound has never really indicated a nagging desire to kill his older brother. He hates him for sure but there’s no sense that he’s seething with a desire for vengeance. Others in this story have as much of a desire to end the Mountain’s life as Sander does.
Besides, I wouldn’t hold your breath for it in the next episode.
Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall?
I doubt it. She will call it a trick and smirk.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
Wait for a sign such as the sun setting in the east and rising in the west.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords reactI only know that Sansa will make a fuss.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
I honestly don’t know how they were going to breach the Wall before now. I mean, they could barely work together enough to get up that ridge Jon was standing on when Daenerys showed up. Chances that they could climb the Wall seem low even if it didn’t contain magical repellants. Now… now they have a dragon that I’m sure will be THE piece that gets them through. The NK has to be focused now. No more walking in circles.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
I imagine the Lord’s will be whiny bitches if Jon straight out tells them he bent the knee, which is probably what he’ll do. Daenerys should first meet them as an equal or partner to Jon against the NK. Daenerys needs to talk to and treat them as Jon would to start earning trust rather than forcing their hand like she has been.
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl lol
So overrated! I don’t care one bit. Part of the fun watching them fight people is that they’re so much bigger. Against each other it’s just two large men swinging big swords at each other. Big deal.
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
I think she’ll be convinced of the threat, but I’m not at all sure she’ll want to commit anything to the cause. Although if she doesn’t she’s facing Dothraki and Unsullied and dragons (oh my) so she may have no choice. Or she Septs them all and next season is just watching the WW slowly march south.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
Slooooooow marching. And now I guess flying. I feel like this is a political wrap-up episode, not a big action WW episode. Although it’s so long that maybe it’s both!
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
Uuuuugh the northern lords. I’m hoping given the title that by the end of the episode it will be moot and Dany will have bent the knee to the true heir. 😀
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl
I would be hype if I thought it was gonna happen, but I don’t. I think Sandor has changed, and isn’t going to let himself die for revenge when he’s got different zombies to fight.
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
I think she will be convinced. But I don’t think she cares. I think she will want to conquer Westeros and spite the enemies that she knows, and then wait to deal with the White Walkers later. I think she will attack Winterfell, based on the characters repeatedly reminding us that the south has never attacked that far north before (which means of course they will).
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
If the ice dragon breathes fire, he will melt the wall. If he breathes ice, he will freeze the ocean. Either way, I think he’s the key to the dead army heading south. I think the dead army will head to Winterfell as well, and that’s where the final battles will occur (Cersei going there for Sansa, the Night’s King going there for Bran).
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
They won’t be happy. They’ll try to support Sansa instead, but Sansa will put them in their place and insist they stay loyal to Jon. But the part of me that’s still in denial says Jon never bent the knee. He said he “WOULD” bend the knee, but he couldn’t because he’s injured. As for calling her “my queen” — that’s because he’s the King, and his wife will by default be his queen (hey, they were flirting like crazy recently, that could be an explanation, in my mind).
When Jaime told Cersei about Tyrion’s plan for a cease-fire, she welcomed it, and mentioned something about how father would deal with a strong enemy. Father had his strong enemies slaughtered at a wedding, so draw your own conclusions…
That’s why Brake was so much better than Furdik as the NK. Brake looked scary as hell, mean and angry. That doesn’t come through as well with Furdik.
1. Cersei will be convinced or will pretend to be convinced. Regardless, she isn’t giving in that easily. While everyone else is off saving the world, she will come up with another plan of death and destruction. Hopefully, Jaime uses the opportunity to finally break with her.
2. The NK and his pet dragon will bring down the Wall.
3. The Northern Lords will continue to complain and bicker because… of course. What a fickle, irritating bunch. Maybe Dany can come north with one of the dragons and roast a few Northerners to make a point. They will follow eventually.
I don’t care about Cleganebowl. The Hound is above petty vengeance. He is committed to saving the world.
Glad you asked. I have no idea of what Euron’s role will be. Benevolence isn’t one of his qualities so he may choose to side with Cersei and her doomed plan. I don’t think that he is dying this season so the Greyjoy drama will continue into S8.
2) I see some answers saying the Ice Dragon will help bring the wall down. I tend to agree with this prediction. If that happens then poor Jon might be in for a new round of shaming.
Perhaps, I am just a foreigner from Braavos (with a healthy fear of dragons), but what exactly is the WW threat now, when they are north of the wall? That’s one the show and novels haven’t answered fully imo. Sure, the wall could come down so make preparations. But it hasn’t yet (with no concrete theory on how it will) so what’s the imminent danger?
1. Cersei is Cersei. She’ll be both convinced and say, “Here. Hold my goblet of wine.” at same time. Dany and Company better not accept any refreshments.
2. I would have thought the next season, if the White Dragon had of been in this episode. Now, I believe it will be in the finale. Only question is which Castle will be the impact zone. Logistics say Tormund is about to have his hands full. But, I don’t believe the NK was planning for one place of attack upon the Wall. With a Dragon he can better chose where he wants to be present.
3. I think Jon renounces the crown, if there is any dispute. He is going to lead Dany’s forces as a co-commander with Jorah(if he is still around after this episode). One of the other Starks will be Queen of the North.
1. I don’t think Cersei cares what’s beyond the Wall – her motivations are power and revenge. She will find a way to use the WW situation to weaken her enemies, with Euron and the Golden Company as her secret weapon. Wonder if Dario could infiltrate the mercenaries? That’d be cool.
2. Break through the Wall, the Nights’ Watch will be ended. (Please showrunners, let Tormund survive).
3. The Northern lords will react like little petty shits, having drunk whatever putrid Kool-aid Littlefinger is serving. Except for Lyanna Mormont and the two houses whose young heirs Jon restored – they will keep faith. I would love for Jorah to meet Lady M. It’s time for Arya to add LF’s face to her collection, if she hasn’t already.
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
I think Cersei will be shaken by the wight, but will probably do as little as possible so that her enemies spend blood and treasure against the NK and the Dead. In Ep 6, however, in his conversation with Danerys, Tyrion says that Jaime promised “to keep the Lannister forces” under control. Perhaps this is a signal that the actual threat will come from Euron and the Ironborn (who we haven’t seen for 3 episodes and are meant to forget?). Perhaps a Ironborn attack on Team Targaryen in the streets of KL where Dragons are harder to use (maybe after a seemingly successful parley with Cersei where viewers are thinking “phew”)? We haven’t had a full set urban street battle unless you count the ambush of Grey Worm and Barristan Selmy. Of course one would imagine that the Ironborn are not at their best in a street fight but . . .
Most awesome of all would be if Euron/Ironborn tries to take out Cersei as well so he can sit on the iron throne! (Think of the possibilities of who saves her – Jaime? Bronn? Jon?!?; but this scenario works against a cleganebowl fan service.) It will end up being a bad career choice for Euron that won’t end well. But many of our faves will bite the dust. Has Jorah, who has now reclaimed his honor by going North of the Wall and fighting by Jon Snow’s side, reached the end of his story arc? While I would hate to see it, what better way to go than defending his queen one last time.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
Taking down the wall at Eastwatch first off. Although I was thinking about an alternative where the NK has his own raiding team fly over the wall, take Eastwatch, and open the tunnel, leading to the dead going through the Wall with a call back to the Wildlings in Season 5. Maybe Beric and the Night King facing off? I think Tormund and Beric are likely not long for this world unfortunately.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
I am really interested to see how the Stark sisters react! Should rock their world. The northern lords will whinge, particularly when Jon’s parentage is revealed. However, I think that as the Last Hearth and the Dreadfort get overrun by the Dead, they will accept Jon as their War Leader, with Sansa showing her ability to keep the Lords together and her value as a political strategist. But as mentioned above, he may have to abdicate to quiet the Lords. But who cares as he can assert a claim to the Iron Throne (or more likely rule Westeros by Danerys’ side, at least until he sacrifices himself to destroy the Night King).
Cleganebowl: doesn’t work under the above Euron theory. If it does, I can see the Hound saying “For f**k’s sake, didn’t I kill enough dead c*nts beyond the wall?!?”
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
She will pretend to be convinced and to cooperate while plotting to get rid of her enemies.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
Tearing down the Wall.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react
They most certainly whinge and moan… but Sansa will bring them into the fold.
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl lol
Zero… Never cared about that.
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
No, she won’t give it credence but will pretend that she does, while she finds an excuse not to send Lannister troops north. She’ll suspect this story is just a trap. After all, she has Ser Gregor Zombie, so no big deal if there are others like him.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
The Wall is toast. I agree, it’s the last shot.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
The Northern lords may grudgingly follow him IF they don’t know he’s a Targaryen yet. Once they learn that, I think they’ll reject him in favor of Sansa. That would be devastating for him.
1.
I don’t know what Cersei will do but this season has set Jamie up as a smart general, so some one Team Breathing could really use.
Jamie has lost everything – children, secret of incest – he pushed Bran off the tower to protect. Except his affair with Cersei. When he loses that, his true redemption can begin. Brienne will be there to help him make the right choice.
2. Nothing good. I hope Ed, Beric & Tormund survive.
3. A Marriage might convince people JS & Danny have a strong alliance.
1. She might be convinced, but won’t care. As for what she is planning, I don’t know, but I think it will lead to Cleganebowl.
2. The Wall. It may come down in this episode or the beginning of season 8. That will mean good-bye Tormund & Beric at Eastwatch and Edd at Castle Black. I suspect it coming down will be the closing cliffhanger of the season.
3. How the North reacts will be dependent on how they learn about and when. If it’s by a raven, they will be pissed. If they Wall comes down, they won’t care. But where are Sam and Gilly. We haven’t them or Bran since ep. 5. If they got together at Winterfell (which is probably where Sam was going) and starting telling what they know, it would change everything. Bran “knows”, but Sam can provide the proof of who Jon is. The Northerners will still be pissed that he knelt, but there would be other concerns.
Will Rickon return as a Wight?!
The wildcard in Cersei’s response to the captured wight is Qyburn. Having created- with considerable effort – a single revenant himself, the mad scientist in him will likely be intrigued by the Night King’s ability to raise hundreds at a time. He might also see the magnitude of the danger and try to talk some sense into her. Does she trust him enough to accept his advice?
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
I think yes but not too cooperative.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
If it still breaths fire, melting the wall. ( just a hole for his army to pass )
If it breaths ice, stairs or a slope to surpass the wall.
Also, resurrecting Benjen Stark not as a wight.. but as a White Walker.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
They’ll accept it when they see Jon rides Rhaegal.
You know, because Viserion was planned from the start for Night King because Viserys is BAD. And Rhaegal was for Jon because he is his DAD.
Boojam,
Or Hodor?? Aw, that would be sad and badass at the same time.
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
I’m half expecting the wight, that was brought down for Cersei, will not be moving at all that far south of the wall. Does the NK’s magical hold on dead bodies reach that far? If it does make it to King’s Landing intact and wriggling I find it hard to hope for Cersei to even care. Jaime might. I’m sure that will cause more conflict between those two. I think Cersei will try to kill a dragon if it’s within the Scorpion’s range (of course she probably has built more than one)…
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
Ice Capades: “How to Train Your Dragon” on ice maybe?
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
I imagine Sansa will probably not be pleased. I’m not very good at speculating but I think maybe the dragons would call upon Lyanna Mormont next time they’re in trouble. 🙂
Id love nothing more than to see Jon land at Winterfell riding Rhaegal. That would end any dispute to his decision right then and there.
How could he? He died south of the wall. No white walkers were around. I guess it’s theoretically possible that the NK makes a visit to the crypts of Winterfell, but if that happens then a whole bunch of deceased (and extremely decomposed) Starks will become wights, not just Rickon. Besides, Jon likely would’ve had all the dead bodies from the BotB burned…at least he should have.
While I don’t think we’ll end up seeing any wights that we actually recognize, Hodor would be the most likely and obvious choice for emotional impact on viewers.
Maybe so, but that doesn’t mean the Hound wouldn’t intervene if zombie Mountain weren’t attacking someone else…say like maybe Brienne of Tarth? In other words, I agree, the Hound has grown and won’t seek out personal revenge. But, as we saw in season 1 when the Mountain was going to kill Ser Loras after the joust, the Hound could very much jump in to save a would be victim. This time King Robert won’t be around to call it off. In that sense, “Cleganebowl” could still happen.
I actually think it will happen. Who else is left to take out the Mountain? Oberyn, Ellaria, and the Snakes are all gone.
Cleganebowl?
I wonder if Cersei just sends the Mountain to kill the wight, but it doesn’t stay dead and catches the Mountain with his back turned à la Oberyn?
Would have a nice symmetry to it.
Cersei will probably pretend to cooperate. Might even send some troops. She’s got a lot of mercenaries coming in.
While there may be grumbling from the north about bending a knee, when they see Dany’s troops and dragons, they might be understanding.
Also, what’s the big deal about the Danaers/Jon hookup? Marriages within families is really common. Ned Stark’s parents were first cousins once removed. Tywin and his wife were first cousins and there was constant inbreeding for the Targaryans. This kind of thing was not uncommon.
Also, it is possible that Jaime is related. Dany’s father lusted after Jaime’s mom. We’ve always thought about Tyrion being a Targaryan but what if the twins were in the family? That would make both of them Dany’s siblings.
He moves even slower now that he’s a… whatever he is. Qyburn and Cersei claim he’s stronger, which doesn’t make sense, but opponents that don’t fight stupid would stay out of grabbing range.
Jon has beat two WW one-on-one and they’re suppose to be supernaturally strong…
Drogon could melt him.
Some people can’t separate a fake world fantasy story from real world modern day morals.
1. Cersei will be skeptical, she may even have Qyburn do some experiments on the wight to disprove that it is real. Qyburn reanimated the Mountain so how impressed is she going to be over one wight. (Do Jon or Tyrion know about Qyburn’s work? As in the woman is not going to be that impressed with one wight when she has the reanimated Mountain.)
She may follow Tywin’s example, didn’t he wait out Robert’s Rebellion then come in at the last minute? She could do the same, lend her support to Jon and Dany in the form of arms and food (or something) and make some excuse like “our armies are southern armies, if the dangers gets down here, then we will fight.” As others have said, she will not risk her army (or much of it) because when the war with the NK is over, she will want to be in position to take out Dany or any other challengers.
2. The army of the dead…well, I’m not sure. If there is a connection between the wights, will a WW or the NK make their way to KL to fetch the “sample” wight? It seems to me like the wall coming down would happen before any big final battle with the NK, so could that be early in season 8?
3. The Northern Lords. Well, maybe this will be Sansa’s (w/ or w/o LF) opportunity for a power grab. Unless Jon and Dany make a pit stop in WF and show them the wight and the dragons, they may dismiss these claims and the fact Jon has bent the knee to Dany and just make Sansa QITN. That will be when Arya kills her ????? (I don’t like that, I’m hoping they find a way to work together but if Sansa really turns on Jon, Arya will not be pleased.)
So, on the other hand, maybe they will get the proof in WF to convince them that Dany is the Queen to lead them through this battle, along with Jon, and Sansa, as the Lady of Winterfell, will hold the Northern Lords together in that effort. (If Dany is Queen then what does that do to Sansa’s dream of becoming QITN? Oh dear..)
4. Cleganbowl. I’m with other people, he is past that. However, in the trailer we see him fighting in the dragon pit so I wonder if Cersei isn’t using a tourney type event to settle something or is it just an attack on Jon and Co.? I worry that the Dragon Pit is going to result in too many deaths.
5. Euron. Yes, what is he up to? Someone else pointed this out – Euron and the Gold Company are not part of the Lannister Army that Jamie told Tyrion he would control. If Cersei is making a bold move, I bet they are involved, maybe taking Dragonstone while Dany is away from it? Could this be what Cersei meant when she said she wanted to retrieve something of value?
Yes!!
Tamwell Sarly,
I like your thoughts on how Sandor could end up fighting his brother even if it is not a “champion’s match.” He would step in to protect another.
Yes!
dragonreborn,
I wondered about the wights reaction as well. Seemed off (then again, we’ve seen them react when they are injured and ‘dying’ so….maybe theres something more that has to do with them being able to follow orders?
I would really like to know whats up with Euron , Yara, and with Sam. I don’t want to wait a whole year or more to know about the latter
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
HELL NO! Cersei could care less about the threat from the North, so I don’t expect her to be impressed by Jon’s show-n-tell ice Wight. Cersei has become the “Mad Queen’ and absolutely nothing is going to dissuade her from her pursuit of absolute power. What I do believe is Cersei is using the premise of the meeting with Jon Snow and Daenerys as an ambush. Which – if that does happen — may be the long overdue wake up call Jamie needs to realize the depths of his sister’s madness.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
I see the army of the dead swarming over Eastwatch and into Westeros like ants at a picnic! Now that the Night King has a dragon at his disposal, it’s his E-ticket ride across and/or through the Wall. That Wall is going down in spectacular fashion, and woe to the locals.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
I foresee much whining and gnashing of teeth on the part of the Northern lords. Sansa was right: they are a fickle lot and hate change more than the average housecat. The only good thing – if you can call it that – is the threat headed down from the Wall. The fight against the Night King will unite the bickering northern factions pretty quickly: nothing like an all-encompassing threat to your existence to pull everyone together and forget about petty differences.
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl lol
Cleganebowl, huh? I’m in ONLY if the sisters Stark cheerlead, and Ed Sheeran performs at the half-time show.
Rabelais,
I’ve always thought that Jaime and Cercei were the Targs and Tyrion was Tywin’s only trueborn son.
ash,
The Beyond the Wall wights were alot slower moving and not terrifying compared to the wights in Hardhome… it’s probably the director
An Army of dothraki, unsullied, wildlings with dragonglass weapons and two dragons wouldn’t have any problem destroying the wights. Jon and Daenerys don’t even need Cersei’s help.
Hindsight is always 20/20
I didn’t mean the Hound was the only one who could physically beat zombie Mountain. I meant, plot wise, who else could do it? It’d be pretty anticlimactic if Jon beat him (they’ve never met and have no direct history) or Drogon melting him. Story wise, the only one left with any reason to take him out would be the Hound. Even if the Hound isn’t seeking personal vengeance, somehow having them clash makes the most sense.
Yeah, I can just envision a scene where zombie Mountain battles Brienne and gets the upper hand on her when the Hound intervenes and takes the Mountain out. Maybe it will even involve fire?
I disagree. The NK could simply reanimate the dead mid-battle and bam, wight reinforcements. He only waited until the end at Hardhome to mess with Jon.
The NK also took out Viserion like it was child’s play. He acted bored doing it. Remember, the white walkers seem impervious to fire. The living don’t stand a chance.
To me, there’s really no way to defeat the NK, his white walker contingent, and the unlimited wight army except to directly take out the NK. I think that’s why it was suggested/hinted at in this past episode.
Tamwell Sarly,
I wonder if killing Bran would kill the Night King, if Bran is the Night King as many have theorized. That’s a bittersweet ending.
1) I think the big meeting will be largely chaotic until Qyburn comes in with a ravengram from the Wall saying the White Walkers have breached the wall.
2) There weren’t more deaths in the previous episode because there needs to be recognizable faces at the Wall when the stuff hits the fan. If the attack was going to happen after Jon and Dany and whoever else return they would have killed off more characters. Night King and his posse of White Walkers just fly over the Wall and let in the army of wights after taking Eastwatch. Beric makes a last ditch suicide run at the Night King and that’s the end of Beric. Maybe that gives Tormund a chance to escape or something.
3) They are going to be freaking the hell out that their King is off bending the knee to foreign invaders while the Night King is busting down their doors.
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
I think the whole “wighthunt to convince Cersei” plot is meant to actually show Jaime and the other southern lords that the threat beyond the wall is real. Cersei will believe but not care and try to use the incoming snowpocalypse to her advantage, finally driving that final wedge between Jamie and Cersei.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
Honestly I would pay good money to have a Pirates of the Caribbean type scene of wights walking underwater around Eastwatch. Or the Night King could just toss each individual wight over the wall like his ice javelin. Also if an ice dragon breathes ice, wouldn’t it just fortify the wall instead of breaking it down?
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
Northern lords are proud and Dany will need to earn their respect not demand it, just like she had to do with Jon. The same reason Jon was declared king in the first place is the same reason Jon finally accepted Dany as his Queen: they both risked their lives for the greater good. Once the lords recognize this and band together for the fight against the WW than it’ll all be fine.
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl lol
What is Hype May Never Die
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
Cersei will be 100% convinced. She will no doubt bend the knee after seeing the wight. The plan to capture a wight will not have been stupid but in fact how Dany obtains the iron throne without violence.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
They take 3-6 months to reach Eastwatch even though Gendry ran there in 4-24 hours.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
It means Drogon can eat LF!! The northern lords will wonder what took so long!!
BONUS: how hype are you for clegane bowl?
Who gives a shit, really
1. She’ll be convinced, but her only priority in life is herself and she won’t care about it because there’s no way for her to benefit from getting involved when she’s in the south and they haven’t crossed the wall yet. She certainly does have something planned though. There’s a reason why she’s having everyone meet in the dragon pit of all places, and why this happens to be the first time we’ve seen her leave the castle since season five. It won’t be as big as last season since they aren’t going to kill off such a large percentage of the main characters like that, and I don’t think anymore dragons will die this season. Whatever she has planned will still be awful in true Cersei fashion, BUT I don’t think it won’t work out as well for her as her other plans have because the time has come for her luck to start running out. I’m still keeping a tiny amount of hope that the wight will be released and rip her to shreds 😀
2. I don’t know, but I think the episode will end with the army crossing the wall. Viserion is the key here. If he can still breathe fire, he’ll probably burn a big hole through it. If he breathes cold air (or ice), he’ll probably freeze the sea and they’ll go around it (probably finding some way to take it down in the process for convenience too). I know there’s been debate about whether the sea is shown freezing over in the opening credits this season, or if it’s just clouds passing over it. But there has to be a reason why they’ve decided to make it look that way when it didn’t in past seasons.
3. They’re going to be pissed lol. Bran will need to intervene and try to make them understand why he did it. But I doubt he’ll be able to convince them because we know how these guys are, and I don’t think Sansa or Arya will be too happy about it either which won’t help. Lyanna’s opinion will probably be key here though. If she accepts it, most of the others might (if not all of them). I don’t want to get my hopes up, but Winterfell is done if the army makes it there and I really don’t want to see that happen. It’s the one place I truly want to still be standing in the end.
1. I am SO tired of Cersei. I understand we need to have her around so that season 8 will be something more than zombies, but still. I am now totally convinced that this show could not go on any more.Even six episodes seem a lot. I will be so sorry when it will be over, but let’s face it: this is endgame.
2. Nothing good. I wonder whether the NK had planned this all along. Hence the ice spears. I wouldn’t want to be in the scriptwriters’ shoes.
3. Well, in Jon’s place I would just ask Daenerys to exhibit her dragons. Seriously, Torrhen Stark bent the knee for a good reason too. Unless the Northern lords (who are pictured as a bunch of whining potato heads) would rather burn.
And I would be so happy if we at least get rid of the Mountain on this season’s finale.
Yes, like when they were trying to rescue their captured “brother”.
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
I don’t trust Cersei one bit. She probably believes the wall is impregnable or barring that she can make some sort of deal with the night king giving him all territory north of the wall. How naiive can she be. Needless to say, I fear for the safety of the Targaryan alliance putting it all on the line at King’s Landing. Might we see some wildfire? Mad Queen indeed!
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
I think that Viserion will melt the wall so the army of the dead can pour into the north. I fear for Tormund and Beric. Viserion will be invaluable to the Night King as now he can turn castles to dust. Taking out the ice-dragon will be priority number 1. Unless Bran can work his magic…
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
We all know how they feel about the Targaryans. Wait till they find out about his parentage although he is the son of Lyanna Stark so that is instant credibility. If the Night King and his minions start devouring the North they will have no choice but to get behind J+D. Only way to defeat the Night King and his ice dragon. Ned bent his knee to Robert, then again Robert wasn’t a Targ but Dany is no Mad King either. As Jon says: “they’ll see you for who you are.”
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl lol
Cleganebowl, more hyped than the Mayweather fight! Bring it ON D + D!
1. Cirsei will agree to join the fight but betray the alliance in the hope of Team DAny/Jon being so weakened by the war vs. NK that she can bring in the Golden company to take them out and win. A True Tywin move.
2. The NK and his army will breach the wall….game on for S8.
3. The northern lords will be upset until they learn that the wall has been breached or even better Dany and Drogon drops Jon back at WF after date night and they see a dragon for the first time!
4. Cleganebowl…..sorry not happening…yet?
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
I think Cersei will believe in the White Walker threat but she’s always been power-hungry and paranoid so I’m not entirely convinced she would abandon everything she worked years to achieve. There’s a lot of murders that had to happen to get where she is. I definitely think she has something planned because in a previous episode, I think Eastwatch, she tells Jaime: “There are other ways to win a war.” It’s almost reminiscent of Tywin’s sneaky strategies, so I’m definitely worried.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
I think the Night King will definitely attempt to fly over the wall with his new wight dragon (RIP Viserion). But I’m also reminded of what Benjen said last season to Bran about there being magic in the foundations of the wall which prevent him from crossing it. Also, I feel that the Night King may have received residual greensight abilities when he marked Bran so perhaps he’ll use the mark along with his new dragon to finally cross the wall. How that will happen, I’m not entirely sure.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
I’m a little afraid for Jon when it comes to these “proud Northern lords.” On the one hand, there is a history behind Starks bending the knee to Targaryens a lá Torrhen Stark and Aegon, but on the other hand, the Targaryen legacy took a downturn during and after the Mad King. I really think Daenerys will have to address the Northern lords in order to 1) Differentiate herself from her father and 2) Affirm herself as an ally and establish that she will defend the North from the threat beyond the wall. Maybe they will come around as Jon said, but I do anticipate some tension.
jon will not bend the knee,he is the king. Northern Lords and other Lords will choose him(including tyrion) to lead them through the long night! Danny will accept it.(she is in love with him)
Good question. When the NK hits winterfell will he wake all those dead Starks in the crypts?
Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
Cercei says she’s donating her body to science upon her death and Qyburn decides to poison her.
What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
Viserion the Ice dragon turns into the biggest ice cream cone you’ve ever seen, White walkers feast on him and they turn into deadly flying snow cones.
Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
They will want to cut off his knees but Arya intervenes wearing Ned Stark’s face (yes she is this powerful now) and threaten to take the head of anyone who’d harm the true king of seven kingdoms.
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
“Screw these whinging ennemies! I have wildfire!”
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
Night King: “I have a dragon and I’m about to use it!” Bye Night’s Watch, Bye Wall…
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
The will proclaim another Queen in the North. Could be a perfect opportunity for Sansa to refuse, throw in her “lone wolf” speech and this will convince Arya, that she cared about family more than for power.
Bonus
I would like to see it happen. But I think it is a fan fiction hype.
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
She seems to be channeling Tywin, or wanting to. He was a fairly rational man. I think she will probably be convinced that there is a threat beyond the wall, but she’ll also be looking for ways to turn the situation to her advantage since she’s not in the best position, power-wise. I don’t think she’ll attempt another Red Wedding scale event, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she still tried something to get an edge, or intimidate the others.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
I presume their focus will be getting past the wall. It’s about time that happened, to escalate the threat they pose to everyone.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
If the northern lords are still being shitty weathervanes, they may initially be angry and rebellious over his decision. However, Dany’s quite impressive with her dragons and armies. They might settle down if both Dany and Jon come back to Winterfell together and lay down the law. If they don’t accept things, they can always fend for themselves.
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl lol
Not hyped at all. It’s a fandom expectation that’s spun so out of control over the seasons that it has taken on a life of its own imo. I haven’t seen much evidence on the TV show indicating that there’s an inevitable mega-duel brewing between the two characters. I love the Hound, but his story is about bigger things now: the fate of the world and such. I couldn’t care less if he brawls it out with his mostly dead zombie brother or not. I’m more hyped about a possible Jaime – Brienne reunion and also The Hound – Brienne meeting again.
Excellent post and observations, Dragonborn. thanks. My own reflections follows below your quote…
The behaviour of the wights is indeed … surprising. And quite many things that happens here are… convenient. Let me try to elaborate… all full of spoilers, so….
WARNING: SPOILERS
Event 1: The heroes in Dragonstone agree to go north of The Wall to capture one wight – the party is lead by Jon Snow
Event 2: On the way they enter Eastwatch and join forces with The Hound and the Bannerless Bros (BB’s)
The BB’s are going north in accordance with their Lord of the Light – very convenient
The Hound can also conveniently pinpoint a location – the arrow shaped mountain
Event 3: Conveniently they discover a patrol with one White Walker and a small squad of wights
Luckily – and conveniently, they manage to kill all the wights when they kill the White Walker – all except one, that is. Quite convenient.
Very quite convenient, really.
Event 4: Then a horde of a gazillion wights threaten to swarm the party of Jon Snow’s
However, conveniently, they manage survive and seek refuge on a small rocky popping out of a lake that is not quite frozen, keeping the wights back for a time
Event 5: And again conveniently, they are rescued by Dany and her three dragons just when the ice is strong enough to carry the weight of the wights
Event 6: Then disaster! By some unhappy stroke of bad luck, the Night King, who coincidentally is by the lake, has a few ice spears.
The first of which downs and kills Viseryon, one of the dragons.
The Night King has further spears so the surviving heroes are lucky to escape with the two remaining dragons.
Unfortunate considering how convenient everything else went… or was it?
Consider the fact that Game of Thrones has a tendency of springing surprises on its viewers – even though this element has been slightly reduced after D&D has taken over writing the story instead of GRRM and we are in the closing stages of the story.
What if we here actually catch a glimpse of the plan that the Night King has? And some of the capabilities he may possess?
Some have speculated that he may be able to do the same greensight thing as Bran, and thus be able to see the past, present and possibly a little into the future?
What if he saw the party of Jon Snow’s aim and was able to plan accordingly.
This, perhaps, includes either sending the vision of the arrow shaped mountain to The Hound or reading it because the Night King can greensight scan the goal of the BB’s
This would explain how the party could stumble upon the perfect target at the perfect spot for both ambushing the target group and for the group to defend themselves
We obviously know that the Night King is magic – like the dragons
The biggest threat against the Night King comes from the dragons
Besides being able to remove them or some of them if they were to fall into the Night King’s trap, he knew he would be able to wight-fy one of them, thus making it possible for him to cross The Wall (a dragon is fire – a wight dragon raised by the icy Night King is both fire and ice…!)
Thus, by knowing where the party of heroes were aiming for and knowing that the dragons would come to their rescue (this is why Gendry was allowed to escape) the Night King could spring his trap with a carefully prepared group of a White Walker and a few wights, one of which would survive the destruction of a white walker, in order to kill a dragon or two.
Thus: The Trap of the Night King was aimed at the dragons. The rest were just stooges of little real importance.
Makes sense, right? What’s more, it would make this episode be solid storytelling in line with the remaining GoT saga instead of simple high fantasy that, while highly enjoyable, is NOT what GoT is about. Not even here in the end of the saga.
[/ spoiler]
Or what do you think?
Thanks for a wonderful site and some serious entries here at the comments section a well!
Hello all,
here are my thoughts:
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
I think she will be convinced but that doesn’t necessarily mean that she will help. All she ever cared about was her family and I think it really depends on if she thinks her family will be better off when getting involved or when staying out of the conflict. She wouldn’t care if all of Westeros got destroyed as long as she and Jamie (and possibly their new baby) would sit somehwere safe..
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
I think they will arrive at the wall this season. I am wondering what Viserion is capable of doing now… will we see him fly over the wall with the NK? And I am also intrigued by how the NK looked at Jon Snow twice now…. I am very curious to find out what he sees in him..
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
I think there will be tension between the Northern lords with some of them joining Jon and Dany (most likely Lyanna Mormont) and some of them being very angry because Jon betrayed the North..
Can’t wait!!
The Mountain was never dead I don’t think, he isn’t a re-animated corpse or a Zombie, He was dying from the Manticore Venom, but was prevented from doing so by means unknown.. looked like some kind of transfusion was about to happen. The venom probably affected skin tissue hence the disfigured appearance and he probably has brain damage hence the no talking.
Next week on GOT
Cersie:I thought you had 3 dragons
Dany: I thought you had 3 children
Bronn: Buuurrrrnnnn!!!!
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
Hmmm. I think that even if Cercei is convinced about the threat, she doesn’t care about saving people, or if they die, as long as she keeps the throne and her enemies are destroyed – she’s not like Dany or Jon. She doesn’t care if she rules over ashes. I also think, that she might consider that this threat is something very distant to KL, and therefore regard that the Southern part of Westeros is safe. I think she will play them all, saying one thing in front of them and then scheaming against them behind their back. To say the truth, I’m more concerned with Jamie’s reaction to this threat. Jamie’s different than his sister. So I wonder how he takes the news, and how he acts on that.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
I’m afraid that the time that the wall comes down is near, and I think ice dragon is the key to that! ‘The end is nigh’!!!
I wonder what happens next and where do they go. Does the NK have a plan? I suspect that he will attack Winterfell,and make wights all the population between the Wall and Winterfell as he marches.
A chilling thought that of the NK marching through Westeros and killing innocent people! OMG. I can’t even think about it!
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
As most, I too believe they will reject the idea and likely turn against Jon. They have not shown full faith in what Jon does and I think that many of them do not consider the threat of WW real, or as an immediate danger. They haven’t seen, they are not convinced and therefore do not realize that Jon had to bend the knee as Tormund put it, to save them, his people, and not his pride. I do not know how this will be fixed. Either they see some WW action and realise this sh.. is real, or Dany does something to take her on her side.
What worries me the most is how Sansa will take these news. She wants to be Queen in the North, or at least rule the house. And Jon bending the knee surrenders what she considers her own. And like the others she doesn’t seem to take the WW threat seriously. I hope she won’t do anything against Jon. I was never really fond of her character, but at the present time, I don’t hate her either and have come to appreciate some of her views. But if she moves against Jon or other family members I’ll ask D&D for her head in season 8. 😀
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl lol
I don’t think that’s going to happen. The entire idea is a truce in order to show the Wight proof, not fight. As much as the Hound hates his brother, I believe after having seen the wight army he has gotten his priorities straight! I hope!
As many before me, I will add the Euron factor. What is he up to? He certainly is scheaming either by himself or with Cercei – even behind Jamie’s back. I don’t like him one bit, he’s as dangerous and crazy as Cercei!
Lastly, I am so much looking forward to Sam arriving at Winterfell and perhaps a vision from Bran concerning Jon’s parentage. And definitely hype at the idea of a Jon /Dany relationship! 😀
dragonreborn,
About the NK sad face you noticed, I think part of his powers are being a type of greenseer or is that an iceseer. So what has he seen? I was under the impression that the Seers in Westeros couldn’t see the future, but then they said you could only kill a wight by fire. If D&D change the rules on the death of wight why not change greenseer powers.
MikeDenmark,
Yep agree with you. NK doesn’t strike me as some random dude just muching south and hoping for the best. He chose the Eastwatch route for a reason.
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
WW or not – doesn’t matter. She’s playing her own version of the game, with her own simple set of rules – you win or you die. The only reason she won’t blast the Dragonpit with Wildfire is because we saw something similar in the last season’s finale.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
Same old, but with added air power. Their motivation is still not clear enough, so something telling us more about it would be nice. Bran’s visions?
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
We are still to see him doing it. I prefer this to be left for the next season and combined with the revelation of his real parentage. He had a not so long tenure as a Lord Commander, if he has a shorter one as KitN and an even shorter one as loyal supporter of Daenerys, this will be kinda dumb. Who would think much of a man who can’t keep interest in a job for more than few months?
Knee bent or not, the Northern Lords ( + Royce ) are going to make a fuss – that’s their collective character arc. This is good, as it will presumably prompt LF into action and in turn make the siblings come together and consolidate the Stark rule of the North. And so ends the WF plot line this season.
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl lol
Not at all.
After seeing the trailer, I’m curious why in the Dragonpit Podrick is right next to Jon when they arrive. Is he squiring for him now? Or is he knighted?
Night Knight,
Maybe the NK just wants baby Sam back and this whole thing is because Samwell stole the baby before he could convert him.
Yesss. Baby Sam is The Snowman That Was Promised. Bring it back!
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
No, she’s the Donald Trump of Westeros. Even if you wave concrete evidence in her face, she’ll be convinced she’s right and everyone else is wrong.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
The dragon still can’t fly over the wall, cos the magic extends even higher than the wall. Or maybe not. I dunno where I got that.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
He might have some convincing to do, but they’re not gonna betray him after all he’s done and been through.
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebow
I had a theory that, at the parlay, The Mountain attacks Brienne and in a strange, ironic twist, The Hound comes to her aide. That would be funny.
Hahahahaha that would be a nice plot twist.
And that actually means that the Champions of Life have been fooled at great cost by the Champion(s) of Death.
It also means that the NK will be an even more formidable foe in the time to come than one would expect from the apparent mindlessness of the wights.
Would be lovely if the Champions of the Living actually realize this sooner rather than later. If they do, they will also have to realize that they may be ‘spied’ upon all the time and thus that their plans will always risk being compromised…
Hello,
Not directly related but, a coastal city in Australia is naming new streets after GoT.
https://www.domain.com.au/news/game-of-thrones-inspires-geelong-housing-developments-street-names-20170824-gy3by4/?benref=theage
🙂
Northstar,
probably just as well Shitmouth or Nimble Dick wasn’t in the show 😉
I basically agree with most people, my two cents here:
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
Being convinced or not is not the point for her, she is just using the “break” in the war to do something that will allow her to remain queen and to kill her enemies. How will she do that and what is she planning? I have no idea… I would assume she will let other fights the wights and the WW and stab them in the back!
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
before the season started I was convinced the wall would crumble by the end of season 6! I imagine an earthquake that will be felt down to KL!
Now that the dead have a huge dragon, I guess they will use it to kill people and maybe break the wall… I was wondering: do you think that an ice dragon will spit ice or fire?
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
It probably means nothing for the North right now, because I don’t see Jon coming back to winterfell soon (next season at best), and even if the North learns about it then the dead will be upon them soon and they won’t have to worry about which queen they will obey… They will massively join the ranks of the army of the dead!
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl lol
Not so much (I would rather see a Arya/The Hound meeting to be honest), and I doubt it will happen in the finale, I think there will be no fight in KL, only discussions, bad feelings, and provocations, but no cleganebowl. If they start to fight each other, then it will be a massacre and there will be no season 8!
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Nice one!
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
If they have the wight there, it’d be quite impressive. But this is a world in which greyscale-afflicted roam around. It’s still quite a leap from one wight to an entire undead army led by White Walkers. I think she won’t believe it.
Based on her references to her father, and the enormous success of her attack on the Sept (does anyone in King’s Landing care about this at all!?), I have to assume she wants to follow up her clever scheming. This is a fantastic opportunity. But her father also warned her she’s not as smart as she thinks she is; I could see it backfiring on her.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
Who knows! They’ve been so slow getting anywhere. I have to assume those “predicting” they’ll bust down the Wall are doing so from spoiled scripts.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
They’ll proclaim Sansa queen. Drama!
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl lol
Not at all. The one is a mute zombie, the other is just a meme at this point. We get it, it sounds funny (to Americans?) to hear someone say cunt. Move along now!
Nimble Dick Circuit? no, Nimble Dick Parade.
Doubt anyone noticed but he didn’t bring the whole army to that rock. He left those Giants behind.
😀 LOL!
Inga,
Totally agree with your first point. This is something inevitable, though oddly not much discussed. The foreshadowing of Cersei aligning with the Night King has been strong. It’s odd that it has not been discussed more. The wall will fall, but the living will not unite against the army of the dead.
Precisely. He did not risk them being burned by the dragons – only a few of the wights, who, let’s face it, individually are relatively weak.
What is more, he brought only enough forces to ensure that the Champions of Life would feel forced to seek help from the Dragonqueen and to trap the living for a time.
Therefore we should expect an intelligent strategy from the NK & his WW generals when he breaches The Wall, really. Not just a simple straight-line march of the undead. If he indeed does have greensight, then he can foresee where the forces of the living are located and moving… and thus prepare accordingly…
MikeDenmark,
I might be wrong but, remember when Bran warged into those crows/ravens and they flew over the wall. When the NK saw them they scattered? He and three of his lieutenants were on their horses on a rock surrounded by wights. Isn’t that the exact same rock where he trapped Jon and his crew?
Cersei won’t want to give up power but a wight should be pretty convincing but considering she’s as mad as a box of frogs now, who knows what can happen (unless they’ve read leaks which I’ve tried to avoid). I don’t think the name of the Golden Company was dropped just for the sake of it (albeit the showrunners do sometimes mention “book” things in passing) and the gold did get back to Kings Landing – though I don’t know if the GC will show up this season or next.
Whether the wall will come a-tumbling down or whether it will be crossed some other way I’m not sure but I think it will be crossed either at the end of this season or early next season.
Well, Jon didn’t literally bend the knee as he was too badly injured. Didn’t Torren Stark manage to retain his place as Lord of Winterfell even though he was called the king who knelt (in the backstory of the original Targaryen invasion)?
I’m not that hyped for Cleganebowl other than I’d like to see Sandor get some justice for the injury inflicted in childhood.
O’l Baby Sam. He is the only good measure we have of time in the show story, from season 6 to season 7 he looks to have aged 1 year, which makes current events seem at the right chronological order.
Of course we then still have to deal with Christopher Nolan style time ordering.
MikeDenmark,
and that’s why he so ferociously attacked the 3 eyed raven cave… they are his true threat.. maybe they can disrupt his ability/
After years of walking towards the wall (slowly ok, but hey, walking at least 1 mile a day…) they will not be able to avoid it! They are getting closer and closer, in Eastwatch they were at most at one walking day from the Wall for a healthy human being. I guess the time it takes for Dany and Jon’s teams to reach KL by boat/horse/dragon will allow them to arrive in front of the wall…
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
Yes. She’ll graciously let them die first and then marry the Night King. Then Jaimie will stab him in the back.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
The Wall will Fall. And I’m betting the Ice Dragon will carry Cersei off on her Honeymoon with Euron where they conquer Essos.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
They’ll revolt. Then, Sansa pushes LF off battlements. Arya poisons all the rest. Then, the remainder, led by Lyanna Mormont, defend Winterfell.
I would like to believe that there’s something more to the NK’s plane than just flying everywhere killing everyone. That’s a bit basic.
He could mean to destroy all life but they can do something else much more interesting, like they discover that there is some mystical importance to the Gods’ Eye and the NK needs to do something there.
Maybe have a wee.
Night Knight,
Thank you.
I feel like I ve not seen that pointed out any place else (then again I didn’t read much on the episode)
This is clearly the same place
He was scouting the best location to trap the team of idiots when Bran went by in ravens (or budget constraints). Plus he had 3 spears for 3 dragons.
NK has a plan and I hope the reveal is cool.
What is so different from the previous 8000 years that he decided to march?
There have been dragrons before, there have been wars in the realms of men before…
Best quote of E6:
“How did a mad fucker like you live this long?”
What pair Hivju and Rory make!!
Violator,
I get your point, but I doubt there is more to the NK’s plan. Leaf said to Bran before dying that the NK had been created as a weapon to fight humans. My guess is that the weapon, like Frankenstein’s creature (but without the romantic part), escaped its creators’ influence, and is now free to roam to do what it has been created for: killing men, women and children. Once all human beings have been killed, the children of the forest would have killed the NK, and they would have all disappeared in a flash. This did not happen, and now mankind has to deal with this threat, which is nothing more than a lethal weapon, like an asteroid that would crash on the planet and kill everything. The fact that they don’t speak, and will apparently not, shows that they won’t have a higher purpose, the NK will never explain its motivations.
Heartsbane comes north.
More Valyrian steel . Who will weld it?
It could be the Hound? He said he wanted some Valyrian Steel, maybe Sam will loan it to him?
That gives us Brienne and Jon with two Vsteel swords.
Arya has a Vsteel knife, but I always hoped Arya would get Dark Sister too.
If Jamie comes north that would be four Vsteel swords and a knife.
Seems like they need about 25 more! considering.
Or more!
Boojam,
Yes! And the hound and tormund are kindred spirits. So awesome for the hound to save tormund and the two at the end spoke volumes with their simple nod of respect.
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
Even if she is I don’t think she’ll help them simply because they took down a dragon and that will make her fight to keep the throne all the more easier.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
Tearing down the wall!
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
I think they’ll be mad at first but who knows, maybe seeing a dragon in person will silence them all quickly knowing this really can help them beat the war.
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl
Me and the rest of the world will be rooting for The Hound.
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
I think she will be unconcerned and not believe they would ever get past the wall. I have a horrible feeling that this is not going to be the truce they are expecting. Even if she becomes aware they are down one dragon, I agree with some others that she will just believe it will make it easier to defeat Dany.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
The dead are marching towards the wall. I believe the wall will either come down in the season finale.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
I don’t believe that the Northern lords will support Jon in bending the knee. Unless somehow Dany and her dragons can convince them it may cause a terrible rift.
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl
If it happens I’ll be super happy, but I’m not certain it will happen.
This episode has a tremendous amount of course correction to do, after the woeful turn in the storytelling in episodes 5 and 6 (particularly 6).
Hopefully it accomplishes that. I was on cloud 9 with episodes 1-4, but episode 6 has made me nervous as to whether the show can give this series the sendoff it deserves. Especially when it presented so many game changing moments with nonsensical and underwhelming buildup, and very little resonance.
I didn’t hate episode 6, I actually rather liked it, but they hugged the cliff when it comes to losing what made the show great in the first place.
Game of Thrones Theories
1. Littlefinger is Sansa Father
2. Tyrion will died : No more dragon for him
3. Euron will beat Jaime
4. Arya will slam Cersei
Cheers
I’m still hoping that the Night King has a brother/co-king (Brake’s NK) and he has his equally large dead army over near Westwatch by the Bridge where nobody is paying attention. 🙂
ninjabear,
I think the wights have always shown just a tad more… sentience than The Walking Dead’s zombies. They use simple striking weapons (clubs, swords), they will back away from fire, they will try to avoid water. TWD’s zombies never use weapons and never show any awareness of danger, the wights do.
Fan,
No chance Sansa is LFs’ daughter, Sweet Robin just might be his son though.
For narrative purposes, I really want the wall to come down by the end of the episode. And really REALLY want a snowflake to fall in King’s Landing (remember Cersei’s breath being visible in the first teaser promo? – CHILLS … pun intended).
Any chance Brienne runs into Meera on her way south? Did we get any notion that Brienne was taking a boat? I felt Sansa’s harsh goodbye implied horseback.
Now that you mention it, you’re correct, I guess I just wasn’t expecting it to be much more. But good obversation 🙂
Thank you for confirming Night Knight’s observation. I couldn’t remember and have not had the time yet to check it out.
As for “He was scouting the best location to trap the team of idiots when Bran went by in ravens (or budget constraints). Plus he had 3 spears for 3 dragons. “… Please view my earlier posting here. We agree.
You ask
“What is so different from the previous 8000 years that he decided to march?
There have been dragrons before, there have been wars in the realms of men before…”
Good question. One guess may be that this time we have a human, who can greensight, whose face remains devoid of emotion and cold and who knows about past, present and perhaps future. Bran. As a Three-Eyed-Raven. Did anything in the past have anything like this?
Maybe it is the final showdown between the Night King and Bran because the NK’s beginning has arrived? (running with the thought that Bran is the Night King or he one way or another acidentally started the NK?).
Anybody… other ideas?
[/ spoiler]
Or how about Arya kills LF and takes his face, then assumes control of the Vale army?
hidingtazz,
I think Sweetrobin is still in charge. It’d be interesting to see Arya take Robin’s face. Their body type is similar and the rage of Preston Jacobs’ dissecting “wolverine” killing his boi would be fun to watch.
Does Robin really control it though? Or does LF control by “advising” him?
hidingtazz,
Oh yes, LF is in control. But *if* “Sweetrobin” was “rejuvenated” via Arya becoming him, LF would likely lose that influence. Royce is no friend of LF and would follow fRobin imo.
The Het,
I agree, it seems like the NK/WWs do not speak. But, how do we think the Crastor deal between him and the WWs was struck?
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
If we weren’t 7 episodes from the end of the entire show then there would inevitably be consequences for Jon.
Such a huge decision could not be made in the world that they have depicted over the previous 6 seasons without major consequences. Especially given that Jon’s claim to The North was tenuous to begin with and given that he has been absent from The North for months.
In order to hold The North together and prevent the Northern Lords from marching their armies home, or worse, Sansa would probably have to declare herself Queen and reject submission to Daenerys.
She would feel angry and betrayed by Jon. Jon would feel angry and betrayed by Sansa. Dany would be pissed off with them both. And a test of Jon’s loyalties would ensue.
But with shorter seasons, a faster paced narrative and the political side of the show increasingly sidelined by the fantasy side, I don’t expect them to depict significant consequences.
Which is why I think they manufactured this drama between Arya and Sansa.
Sansa is now obliged to prove her loyalty to Jon and House Stark, even though they have not shown any sign of disloyalty in her actions this season; and she will probably do so by crushing any potential rebellion. No doubt with some Deus Ex Arya involved.
Maybe they’ll revisit the issue of Northern autonomy and leadership once Jon’s parentage becomes common knowledge. But it’s a much more straightforward charge towards the climax of this story if everybody just falls in line, no matter how questionably.
So I don’t really expect there to be any consequences for now. But fingers crossed the producers surprise me with something believable and intriguing, preferably without unnecessarily killing or further undermining the characters I care about.
I think if Dany flies up to Winterfell on a dragon the LOrds will be just peachy.
Pretty soon everyone will see the WW and no one will care.
(1) He was killed south, not north, of the Wall;
(2) He was killed by a human (!) psychopath, not an undead or a WW.
So the short answer is ‘No’.
Assuming he can now fly over the Wall with a few other White Walkers, he doesn’t even need the army of wights he has now, except as a distraction at the Wall. He can simply fly over to Winterfell where there have now been two major battles and drop off a White Walker to raise the dead there. Then he flies to the Riverlands and drops off another White Walker. On to Lannisport and Highgarden. Jon and Dany can’t counterattack everywhere and wherever they aren’t his army grows geometrically.
I doubt that’s what happens on the show, but humanity is pretty much screwed with the Night King flying around on a dragon raising the dead wherever he goes. Every cemetery in Westeros is a fresh company of wights.
I’ve always thought that the war against the dead can’t just be fought in the North. It’s got to affect the whole seven kingdoms. But that was before the show had the Starks retake Winterfell. I thought the reason they lost it in the first place was to keep them from all getting wiped out when the Wall failed, but they’re all back in harms way. So I don’t know. The Night King just flying right past the North and starting things in the south would take care of that.
I don’t believe we have any reason to believe either of those things matter.
1. There is certainly nothing that proves that wights can’t be raised if the death occurs south of the Wall. That would make for a much easier war if the WW make it south and can’t replenish their losses. I believe it doesn’t happen now simply due to distance and/or weakening or blockage of the power because of the magic within the Wall.
2. In the books Tormund’s son, Torwynd, dies from causes other than at the hands of the Others or wights and he became a wight. Actually, I don’t know where you got the idea that the dead can only be animated if the death was from them. ? In the show they’ve been talking about burning all bodies to prevent it, such as when Jon’s group killed the mutineers.
I always wondered what’ll happen if the NK appears around Winterfell and starts waving his hands. With The Crypts inside and thousands of years old graveyards around. Hm, ok, don’t let him anywhere near the place. I don’t want to see zombie Ned.
Also, why does he have a whole army of wights but just a few WW ( are they all Crasters ? ) ? An army of WWs will be far more formidable. He doesn’t like to share power? Or is there a limit to his powers, so he can turn/control/sustain a small number of them? Maybe we have to keep our fingers crossed for the ice dragon to live ( erm… ) longer, so NK can’t make more WWs.
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
I think she will be once she sees the wight, but like her father Tywin said in season’s past, she is not as smart as she thinks she is. So whether she does anything about it is the question.
She mentioned the Golden Company in a previous episode this season, so I am thinking she is looking to extend her dwindling, burnt army.
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
Breach the wall and break the wheel.
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
The North will follow, begrudgingly. He is the king and his word is law. And he will have Sansa on his side, who has them wrapped around her fingers. Now, when they find out he is a Targaryen after all, with the legitimate claim to the Iron Throne, that’s another question. Sansa will become Warden of the North.
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl. lol
#2K18
I thought that was how the Boltons were gonna get killed. I’m still hoping Ned gets to kill Littlefinger, but it means general Stark carnage as well.
I believe he needs to get a live baby to make a White Walker, based on what we’ve seen. Even if White Walkers mature much faster than humans, there ought to be some young ones. You think raising human kids is tough, how about raising super strength little monsters? Maybe the reason it’s taking forever for the Night King to get anywhere is every night when he comes back to the kids he finds Johnny playing gameboy instead of javelin practice and Bob and Steve are making their wights have a dance competition. There’s just no getting those kids to take destroying the world seriously.
Night Knight,
The dead Starks come out of the crypts to save the day…with their own ice dragons from bran the builder.
The end.
Sounds like an excellent and intelligent strategy. Good thinking!
Smaller armies of undead springing up everywhere will cause loads of distractions while a larger army can be assembled (e.g. from the Battle of the Bastards area) and attack The Wall defences from the south while the wall is breached from the north.
If you combine it with my theory mentioned earlier, i.e. that the NK has some sort of greensight (and thus was able to set aa deliberate trap for the dragons) and can predict where his enemies are or have forces, Bran assumes a huge importance in the war to come in the last season!
So I agree with you… humanity is screwed. Cool (ha!) story:-)
1. Will Cersei be convinced of the threat beyond the wall? What is she planning?
She won’t care and try to kill all her enemies which will hopefully end in her death this episode as Jon and Dany are not some Tyrells
2. What is next for the army of the dead and their ice dragon?
Breaching the wall at the end of the episode obviously
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
They won’t like it. But killing LF and a strategic marriage between Jon and Dany will make it OK.
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl
Not at all, it s too late in the game for that.
I might reverse my position if it’s a good fight.
Overall, I hope for some major deaths, zombies and unkillable heroes is too much standard TV to my liking.
Jaime and Tormund should have died epic deaths in S7E4 and S7E6
MikeDenmark,
Sorry I didn’t see your post before. Happy to see I m not alone
”
You ask
“What is so different from the previous 8000 years that he decided to march?
There have been dragrons before, there have been wars in the realms of men before…”
Good question. One guess may be that this time we have a human, who can greensight, whose face remains devoid of emotion and cold and who knows about past, present and perhaps future. Bran. As a Three-Eyed-Raven. Did anything in the past have anything like this?
Maybe it is the final showdown between the Night King and Bran because the NK’s beginning has arrived? (running with the thought that Bran is the Night King or he one way or another acidentally started the NK?). ”
”
Well there has been a 3ER for one hundred years.
We’ll see, it s good that there is still mystery and I hope it gets addressed in a satisfying manner
Leuf,
😂
3. Jon Snow bent the knee. What does this mean for the North? How will the northern lords react?
Jon abdicated as King when he (figuratively, but in full intent) bent the knee to Dany. I think the accepted compromise will be that the North will stay under Dany, but Sansa, not Jon, will become Warden. Jon will be a Prince Consort or whatchamacallit.
BONUS: how hype are you for cleganebowl lol
For YEARS (like, since season 3 or 4), I’ve thought this will happen when Jaime tries to kill Cersei. He will need someone to hold off the Mountain then, and so it will be infused with some emotional importance. Plus, it will give a nice resolution to the pair of them, given that technically, the Cleganes are vassal to the Lannisters…
You’re quite right, Clob. I apologise. Torwynd was killed by cold. There were Others in the vicinity, to raise him as a wight.
I still think that Rickon is most unlikely to be ‘raised’ as he died well away from any WWs. I don’t think there’s an indication that people can become wights over a great distance and, of course, currently there’s the wall in the way. If/when the wall falls then people who die with WWs nearby would be likely to become wights.
(Beyond the wall there is always the possibility that WWs are nearby.)
Yaga,
I think the accepted compromise will be that the North will stay under Dany, but Sansa, not Jon, will become Warden
This would solve a lot of issues I have concerning Sansa and Jon. I could see Jon and Daenerys as King and Queen too though (once the parentage comes to light). For whatever reason Jon and Daenerys marrying doesn’t bother me.
MikeDenmark,
You mark some of your posts as spoilers yet you don’t use the spoiler code correctly.
It’s [ spoiler ] Comment [ /spoiler ] without the spaces.
Please see to secure your spoilers in the future.
Thanks.