About that Game of Thrones “spoiler” going around today….

Daniel Portman as Podrick Payne and Gwendoline Christie as Brienne of Tarth _ photo Helen Sloan_HBO

False rumors on the internet are nothing new, especially in the Game of Thrones fandom. In the early days of the show, before filming even began, there were IMDb shenanigans when a creative fan added Holly Marie Combs’s name to the cast listings as playing the part of Catelyn Stark. Obviously that was untrue, and it demonstrated just how easy it is for anyone with a login to update the movie and television database.

Part of IMDb’s charm is that anyone can update it, but unfortunately it can lead to trolling and misinformation and that is the case this week when the cast listing for a season five episode was updated.

MAJOR SPOILERS below the cut!

Fortunately, the Huffington Post was able to get in touch with Michelle Fairley’s representation and they were able to confirm that rumors of Fairley returning to play Catelyn or Stoneheart were not true.

“There hasn’t been any discussion about her returning to the show after Season 3,” Fairley’s rep told HuffPost Entertainment. “As of now, this is completely incorrect.”

Sorry, folks, there’s no Lady Stoneheart in the works currently- just someone getting creative with IMDb once again. This actually happened last year, but that’s slipped people’s memories, and it didn’t make as big a ruckus last year. I believe the entry last year was removed before many people noticed.

The season five Fairley episode listing on the database is in the process of being removed.

142 responses

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    1. I was watching a YouTube video of a fan breaking down the season 5 trailer and in it he brought up an interesting theory.

      He thinks D&D are merging the LS role into Dark Sansa. He states that was the reason for Littlefinger telling her to take vengeance. Pushing her to become LS.

      I think this merge is possible. Who knows.

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    2. 🙁

      Last season, I really counted on her.
      There was so much hype. A magazine said that the Brotherhood Without Banners would be returning, the last episode had some promising Stoneheart makeup/prosthetics on the run for the Emmy’s nom and it had an extented running time. I actually believed it.

      I don’t want to be disappointed again. I guess one of the best and most promising parts of the books just isn’t good enough to ask Michele Fairley to come back as a guest star. I guess it just isn’t good enough for Game of Thrones.

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    3. Greenjones,

      Yeah I know who Gordy is, basically. Minor character. I’m throwing together a post for the next day or so with all the minor casting stuff lately and a couple tidbits of things I’ve heard.

      Multiple people handle the Twitter, by the way. I do tend to do it a lot.

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    4. The Dark Sansa theory is probably a good theory. Its the kind of move that reeks of a “television decision” as opposed to storytelling. You keep Baelish around causing trouble, but more importantly the young rising Sophie Turner can become a stronger “player”. Turner getting the role of Jean Gray shows that she is obviously turning heads in more ways than one.

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    5. You could tell pretty easily that it was fake. Michelle Fairly as Hooded Woman…doesn’t matter how vague the name of the role is, if Michelle Fairly was actually, officially going to be in S5, playing “Hooded Woman” wouldn’t stop that from becoming huge news.

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    6. Then what is Brienne doing back in the Riverlands I wonder? It still isn’t a definite no… I mean what can she say? I guess I can still hope but I’m probably going to end up getting depressed after episode 10 again.

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    7. Luka Nieto:
      Morgoth,

      There were casting calls for both those characters, so… no, they ain’t cut. He was asking specifically about news about the castings.

      Oh, I stand corrected then. Thanks for clarifying. I’m guessing Varamyr will be quite different from the book character, though.

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    8. Arthur,

      I hope this theory, while interesting to consider, doesn’t come to pass.

      While I love the character, this is a major fast track for a character who, for four seasons, didn’t display a malicious or vengeful bone in her body. Littlefinger is a great manipulator, perhaps one of the best in the series, but Sansa’s admission to the Vale Lords was a wink to the viewer that she is onto LF’s game. If she does his bidding, how is this in anyway progress for her to become an independent player in her own right, and not just a pawn again? I get the writer’s are eager to have Sansa play a more pro-active role and will take her arc in a different direction then the books but to what end? Now I am really worried for the character and this “controversial” scene we have heard so much about. Wondering now if it will be the death of Sweetrobin at her own hand while being directed by LF or, if she is to take on Stoneheart’s role, she does this all on her own.

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    9. Morgoth,

      Certainly, I imagine he’ll be quite different. Well… his circumstances, anyway —either that or we will get to see very little of him. But I think we can expect him to be a wildling leader and impressive skinchanger.

      Kells,

      I’m pretty sure the “controversial scene” is an early Sansa chapter from TWOW, as quoted by Elio Garcia. Sophie Turner did say something in the script shocked her, if I recall correctly, but the “controversial” comment was about the books, not the show.

      Also, I don’t think the writers will take away Sansa’s agency now that she’s gotten it at last. She got one over Littlefinger when she revealed herself to the Lords of the Vale —she saved his life yet secured herself a safer position, less reliant on Baelish… which is something that hasn’t even happened in the books —not yet, anyway. So, while I think the emotional manipulation by Littlefinger will continue (it’s what he does), it will go both ways now.

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    10. People seriously fell for this? Really? I was under the assumption all this “steam” and “ruckus” was mainly trolls trolling trolls.

      And if you really DID believe it.. shame on you. Seriously. IMDB is about as reliable as anybody else on here with their wild theories.

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    11. If lsh was in but simply pushed to this or next season would anything be different? Theyd still keep it under wraps and deny it at every turn. I mean look at how surprising it will be now if it happens compared to if it happened last season. Twitter will explode twice instead of once lol. I still think there is hope, I really dont want to see Sansa Stoneheart that sounds pretty bad. What if LF is saying that after we hear about someone marrying arya or jon at the wall? Sansa is not at that point yet it would be too out of character for her to fill LSH’s shoes. If she is cut she better be completely cut I will stop watching if they do Talisa stoneheart or something.

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    12. I don’t want Lady Stoneheart she’s boring. Bring back Robb Stark with his head mounted on Greywinds body. Hey can run around the Riverlands with a giant dire wolf body mauling the shit out of Freys and their kids. Make it happen HBO

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    13. So without Stoneheart, does the Brotherhood just fall into a black hole? Or will we see them again with a still alive Beric?

      And what exactly are they going to have Brienne do this season, other than verbally spar with Podrick?

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    14. Luka Nieto,

      From your fingertips to the writing Gods ears, Luka!
      I question D&D a lot, though I love the show, simply because they seemed to drag Sansa out. I get that she was a prisoner and still is, in someways, but I was really hopeful for the Ser Dontos plot to be included so we could see the decisive Sansa take shape. It was one of the few times in the books I felt that she could effectively assert herself. If the writer’s are morphing her into a LS-hybrid, does she truly have agency if its at the direction of Littlefinger? She may be onto him, his game plan, but I am a wee worried that the gruesome twosome (which I know Sophie jokingly called them) will put her on par with LF but make Sansa unrecognizable. Though…I guess it’s par for the course, since Arya is becoming “no one” and the parallels between the Stark girls would become a bit more crystal clear.
      As for the scene, Sophie mentioned a scene that was hard to film for her and everyone on set. That is why I wondered if maybe the controversial scene from the books could be coming in this season, since they are fast tracking a lot of her plot.

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    15. It’s more fun to speculate why this character wasn’t included than how this character could be included (or amalgamated). I just hope someone starts killing Freys soon.

      Horse . Beaten -> Death

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    16. Hodor’s Bastard,
      Indeed, that is the question that certain upset fans never answer: what would B&W have done with her in Season 5? The plots needed to be merged and streamlined as it is: embellishing heavily on one would have been a poor use of time.

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    17. Kells,

      The decisive Sansa did not take place there, really: in the books, Dontos talks her out of some alternative plans. (If you recall, poor Sansa is shocked to learn from Dontos that the only reason anyone is interested in her is because they expect her to become the heir of Winterfell.)

      I would argue the opposite: B&W actually have gotten to the punch faster than the books. Although Sansa left the silly cowardly girl in the Eyrie and came down the brave and not-completely-clueless Alayne, the Maleficent Stark that many readers anticipated (not me, I am embarrassed to admit) from that will not be descending until Winter: and who knows when that will be! However, her next decisive scene in the books will be her first one.

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    18. Stoneheart at first seemed too silly to me in the books and one resurrection too far. But I got on board when she turned the BwB from quasi-Robin Hood lot to shell shocked executioners. It said a lot about the effects of war, and in the books, I actually prefer the character as silent angel of death.

      Sansa taking her place could work but I would like a feasible way for her to finance the BwB, I guess. Or some way for the show to return to them and show their change to just hanging everyone with the last of name of Frey. It really is great how Beric gives his last breath to SH, and all you need is an Arya wolf-dream to tell it, regardless of when.

      With the setup in previous seasons, like the episode titled Mhysa and music cues that seemed right for it, along with them not coming out and saying that they won’t use her, I get the feeling they shot it for the end of Season 4 and zombie Catelyn looked goofy.

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    19. Bryan,

      Most of the audience probably has not worried about either Edmure or Blackfish, as neither are major characters. For those that di remeber, they have no reason to think that Edmure has left any dungeons. Blackfish is presumably on the lam somewhere.

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    20. “There hasn’t been any discussion about her returning to the show after Season 3”

      There hasn’t been any discussion about it, because it’s obviously happening!

      “As of now, this is completely incorrect.”

      Because ‘as of now’ it hasn’t happened yet!

      #jk #OrAmI?

      For the record: I don’t think it’s gonna happen. But the wording is still kinda ambiguous :p

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    21. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      In the book Manderly is awesome, true, but in the show it’s a brand new secondary character taking revenge on another secondary character. Not the same epicness as the return of LSH.

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    22. Wimsey:
      Kells,

      The decisive Sansa did not take place there, really: in the books, Dontos talks her out of some alternative plans.(If you recall, poor Sansa is shocked to learn from Dontos that the only reason anyone is interested in her is because they expect her to become the heir of Winterfell.)

      I always thought Sansa felt Dontos was her “Knight” and actually took risks to meet with him, something she would’ve never done pre-Blackwater. With her first way out gone (The Hound, which I understood in context because of his drunken behavior, her fear AND her belief Stannis would win), I felt that the fantasy she held onto of being rescued presented itself and she truly believed Dontos wanted to help her. The realization that her “claim” is her only value, destroyed what was left of that naivety. Well a good chunk of it because we, the reader/watchers, know Littlefinger really fucks with her head. While Dontos was the only choice, it was still her’s to make by meeting with him, so that is what I meant by decisive actions. And with 4 seasons, I guess what I really meant was I hoped to see that build up instead of just new hair/new dress/new attitude.
      Either way, I am interested to see where this goes because it really is new territory if the writers are eliminating the Alayne element (the teacher/student) and going full force into vengeance mode.

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    23. They obviously could have been lieing….don’t you think it’s something that they’d want to keep COMPLETELY under wraps to shock the shit out of you? Why would you expect the reps to say anything other than “she is not currently involved?” The wording means that as of right now, she’s not involved but that doesn’t mean she could be involved later. Just sayin, you guys calling to ask a rep wouldn’t be confirmation one way or another. D&D in the past have been completely hush hush about it, refusing to talk about it one way or another. The actress would be sworn to secrecy as well. We won’t find out until the season is shown.

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    24. Thanks for posting this, Sue, even if some folks still don’t want to believe it. I’m really looking forward to the article on the minor castings you mentioned.

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    25. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      goodkinghenry,

      Manderly > Stoneheart. Although it looks like neither will be in the show. The lack of Frey suffering needs to end in some way on the show.

      Truth. I hate that there has been no set up for the Northern Revenge as of yet and I really do feel it’s going to fall on Sansa at this point. Just the fact that I may never hear this line uttered “In return, we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men!” makes me want to tear my face off.

      If there are only 7 seasons, season 6 can’t expand, it has to contract. I just can’t see them bringing in a whole host of Ironborn and Northerners 20 episodes before the end. These damn Dornish better end up being really important. Would trade them all for Wyman, Wylla, Maege and Alysane.

      I have to admit, I still hold on to a glimmer of hope that we’ll see LSH this season. It’s nothing like the absolute certainty I had at the end of S4. That crushing feeling when Arya was on the boat and the closing music was getting louder and louder is not something I wish to repeat. :*( GoT = serious business.

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    26. Another thing is its michelle fairley she’s so perfect for lsh and I know she would be down to do it from interviews u can tell she’s really open to anything. I always just picture that scream from the red wedding and try to imagine that as a character its scary and awesome.

      On a different topic who thinks the controversial sansa scene could be her seducing LF? Everything she learned from cersei about using her womanhood as a weapon would come full circle in a pretty controversial way.

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    27. The most convincing hint towards Stoneheart is something that is never mentioned at all: D&D are on record as saying they picked Michelle Fairley after watching her as Lady Macbeth on the stage, and seeing the rage, the horror and the sheer power of her performance in it. In other words, they seemed to be looking for a Stoneheart far more than a Catelyn.

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    28. I’ve been an IMDb user for 10 years now, and I’ve seen the best and the worst about that site!

      Oftentimes it can be a wonderful place to discuss and review movies and tv shows…but other times it can be a cesspool of ignorance and stupidity…as it was in this case…

      Well what can you do…there will always be some shit stained twats around…and what do you do with shit stains…you whippe them off!

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    29. Not including her leaves so many questions – why introduce the BWB and Beric – was it just for

      the Jon storyline?

      . Why have Arya add Beric and Thoros to her list? That was truly the one thing last season that gave me hope that LSH was coming. It seemed they wanted to remind the viewers about these tertiary characters. IMO, if they don’t introduce her in S5, it’s a done deal. I feel like viewers will barely remember her by Season 6, same with Gendry. In my heart I feel like it was going to happen and then got abandoned for one reason or another. I’d love to be proven wrong though. 😀

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    30. Laura,

      There’s a scene where brienne goes to a blacksmith to change her sword or something in the Riverlands this season which could be a chance to see gendry again.

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    31. Tyrion Pimpslap:

      The lack of Frey suffering needs to end in some way on the show.

      THIS…

      Laura: Truth. I hate that there has been no set up for the Northern Revenge as of yet and I really do feel it’s going to fall on Sansa at this point. Just the fact that I may never hear this line uttered “In return, we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men!” makes me want to tear my face off.

      …And THIS!

      I, too, hate that there has been no Northern Revenge and no Frey suffering. Don’t care about LSH one way or another. I need to see elements of twisted revenge. If it is Sansa that has to take on this role…well, that’s not what I imagined for her but I will go with it.

      I still hold out a slim measure of hope that Manderly and Wylla appear.

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    32. Morgoth,

      Could be the bald Wildling with the axe in the trailer, I had been thinking it might be the Weeper but perhaps it’s Varymyr

      Bolton army Chess pieces at 1:27-8+ casting for Baratheon General for 510 has me excited about the North and a certain battle to at least begin (and probably carry over into early S6)

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    33. Laura,

      It’s similar as to why they have Stannis call out “Balon Greyjoy” with the leeches and having Illyrio talking to Varys + Blackfish escaping the Red Wedding, they probably made the strategic decision to cut LS and fAegon later, eg no point in having Illyrio if Varys is just going to straightforward send Tyrion to Dany

      AND BwB could have done without Thoros and Beric resurrection if they were always planning to do without LS, could have just had Beric and a ragged bunch of Kings men under Robert turned Robin Hood peasant outlaws

      They could have just had Edmure and no Blackfish.

      I would rather Blackfish fill the LS role than Sansa, to turn Sansa into LS means changing her role

      Besides I don’t like the idea that turning her into a “player” requires her to go to the “dark side”. This is a brutal world but she can still be positive and turn into an anti-LS and anti-HS character who have both become extremist, eg taking after Margaery rather than Littlefinger she can inspire a following and develop a form of political power by uplifting a ravaged people which is what the initial appeal of the BwB was

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    34. mariamb,

      There’s northern “revenge” but I reckon the way this is being set up is not a proportionate revenge that makes people feel good but it will be so OTT is will make people sick

      Which I like literary wise as it rips out any kind of romantic sense out of the war’s and taps into the fact that war crimes don’t just happen and extremist groups and army units don’t just appear out of thin air, they happen as a cycle tit for tat spiralling out of control and hatred building until there is no restraint.

      That’s why I enjoy the High Sparrow arc and maybe Littlefinger (a Burgeoise meritocracy revolutionary IMO)

      Eg the Freys “just” killed soldiers but crucially they threw all the customs that acted as restraint mechanisms out the window, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Freys get Rains of Castamered with women and children and brought brutally into the fray (or should that be “frey”…) and the all-out destruction of the Riverlands arc from the booming harvests or AGoT into a Fallout 3 style death land by WoW will be complete.

      I reckon “Light Sansa” can play a role in raising it from ruins which is why I don’t like the idea of “Dark Sansa”

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    35. Kells: I always thought Sansa felt Dontos was her “Knight” and actually took risks to meet with him, something she would’ve never done pre-Blackwater.

      If I recall, then Sansa didn’t take huge risks: she met Dontos at the Godswood, after it became pretty clear that people were leaving her alone there. Remember, Littlefinger was behind this: and given Sansa’s track record, he probably was not going to risk her having to be too daring or innovative.

      Ghost’s Lunch: they probably made the strategic decision to cut LS and YG later,

      Well, not necessarily. One thing that people are forgetting is that YG’s arrival on Westeros is a huge shock for everyone in Westeros. The Arianne chapter from Winds deals explicitly with this, and the Theon chapter brushes on things that will be hugely affected by it. One of the huge issues on the next story is going to be: is he who he says? And is he the member of his family with whom we should side?

      However, we the readers are less surprised: simply because Tyrion chanced to meet YG on the road. No other protagonist knows that YG is coming.

      To this end, B&W they want the audience to feel the shock and surprise that the main characters (and supporting & incidental characters save for Varys) feels, and if they want the audience to wonder (as the Westerosi will): “is YG who he says?” then it is better to have YG’s return be somewhat out-of-the-blue at the onset of Season 6 (or the very end of Season 5).

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    36. Rygar,

      This. ^^ 😉

      She’ll appear when she’s needed in the tv!story (if ever).

      Luka Nieto,

      Re: the “quoted” WoW chapter
      Where might someone find this quotation? I no longer frequent his site.

      I am not a fan of the vengeful Sansa theory. But I agree that there needs to be some Northern vengeance. Give me some Manderly!

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    37. Eurio: On a different topic who thinks the controversial sansa scene could be her seducing LF? Everything she learned from cersei about using her womanhood as a weapon would come full circle in a pretty controversial way.

      That hypothesis is both widely held and widely hated. The idea has been around for a while: I remember after Storm came out that people began to suggest that at this point, Cersei was going to be Sansa’s role model. The thought was that Sansa had finally learned that her values were based on falsehoods and that the people who win are people like the Lannisters and Littlefinger. However, there has always been a crowd that sees Sansa as an icon of moral purity, and they seemed to be holding out hope that eventually, good deeds would go rewarded rather than punished, and that Sansa would somehow triumph this way.

      That written, I don’t think that Sansa need seduce LF: usually “seduction” requires a little winning over, and LF would make a Chippendale Dancer look like an amateur given half the chance! 🙂

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    38. John M W: And what exactly are they going to have Brienne do this season, other than verbally spar with Podrick?

      I haven’t read any of the books, so I don’t know where the end of the published books leave Brienne. But I wonder: is there a possibility that she will die in the show this season? Her death, if it happens, would have a huge impact, because Brienne is very well-liked amongst viewers, as a rather noble Knight. I hope not, though a part of me thinks it could happen.

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    39. If there’s going to be some sort of final reckoning with the Freys (which there needs to be for closure) it’s going to be done in some way to elicit discomfort and maybe sympathy like all the other villains demises. Not sure how but they may just get a tear for old Walder before the end!

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    40. It’s pretty crazy to me that the “Sansa will probably join the BwB start hanging Frey’s” notion has had this kind of legs based solely on one (out of context) line from the trailer.

      I’m all for speculating on changes and things that are going off the book-path but you need to come up with something more than a single line about revenge spoken in a trailer. That’s the flimsiest of flimsy pieces of evidence.

      I’m not a believer in the theory that perhaps Sansa’s arc this year will take her into the Northern storyline with her and LF conspiring to have her wed to Ramsay in order to secure Winterfell but I can at least not snort derisively at it because LF using Sansa to secure Winterfell is exactly the same goal he has in the books so you could make the argument that the show is just getting us there a little more efficiently. Not likely but I’ll at least humor it until I see more evidence.

      How exactly do you construct a scenario where LF decides that his best course of action after sheltering Sansa and planning to use her and her name to consolidate more power is to convince her to join up with an outlaw group and anonymously start hanging Frey’s?

      Let’s be smarter people. Let’s try.

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    41. Wimsey: That hypothesis is both widely held and widely hated.The idea has been around for a while: I remember after Storm came out that people began to suggest that at this point, Cersei was going to be Sansa’s role model.The thought was that Sansa had finally learned that her values were based on falsehoods and that the people who win are people like the Lannisters and Littlefinger.However, there has always been a crowd that sees Sansa as an icon of moral purity, and they seemed to be holding out hope that eventually, good deeds would go rewarded rather than punished, and that Sansa would somehow triumph this way.

      That written, I don’t think that Sansa need seduce LF: usually “seduction” requires a little winning over, and LF would make a Chippendale Dancer look like an amateur given half the chance!

      I’m more inclined to believe that the quick shot we see in the trailer of Sansa alone in a castle room with candles lit around while she’s naked in a bathtub and looking extremely anxious is leading to the controversial scene in question. And I don’t think it’s with LF.

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    42. Laura,

      Truth. I hate that there has been no set up for the Northern Revenge as of yet and I really do feel it’s going to fall on Sansa at this point. Just the fact that I may never hear this line uttered “In return, we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men!” makes me want to tear my face off.

      Amen! I get the constraints of television, but one of the great themes of ASOIAF is that actions have consequences. Manderley has a reason for what he does. For example, there’s been no mention at all in the show (that I can recall) of the packs of wolves roaming the countryside (presumably led by Nymeria). All you need is some dialogue here and there, no wolf footage needed. There’s so much that can be fit into the limitations of television that can help bring to life the atmosphere of the books, especially the sense that even though the fighting is finished, the war is far from over.

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    43. How exactly do you construct a scenario where LF decides that his best course of action after sheltering Sansa and planning to use her and her name to consolidate more power is to convince her to join up with an outlaw group and anonymously start hanging Frey’s?

      Let’s be smarter people. Let’s try.

      King Tommen:

      I think the idea is not that Sansa starts hanging out with Thoros, but that she gains control over a section of Arryn men like those seen on horseback in the trailer, and sends them hither and thither to murder Freys, and at the end of this they bring her Brienne and Podrick and she does the routine from the books, a la Stoneheart.

      How you described the Sansa-in-Winterfell idea made it sound plausible for the first time to me, it does fulfill narrative needs, frees D&D from paying another actor, and ties two plots together. But only if Sansa’s TWOW material is comparatively bland to them.

      But yeah, Sansa probably will not become Ellen Ripley. However, if there is no Stoneheart than someone would need to fulfill her role. I get the feeling that Stoneheart will appear when Balon dies, in due time.

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    44. I agree with everyone stating that they would like to see some sort of vengeance on the Freys for their awful part in the Red Wedding and that Sansa will take parts of LSH character to seek revenge. But, I also would like to see the same vengeance carried out in the North. My question is, who will take on that role? Sadly, I don’t think Manderly will make it to the show. However, some parts of his character should. We need to see how some of the North is not okay with what happened to the Starks. Will Sansa also take on this role?

      I have a completely crackpot idea that Sansa might end up going back towards Winterfell with the BWB. If I’m not mistaken, wouldn’t she recognize Thoros and him her? If she joins up with them and starts heading up north, that’s also bringing Mel closer to Thoros again. I agree with what Whimsey said a while back about why Mel and Thoros had to meet and why it had nothing to do with LSH. He stated that Mel needed to see that is was possible to resurrect people and I most definitely agree. I have a feeling that their religion is going to become front and center pretty soon.

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    45. Still a lot questions are raised. Why the show bothered to introduce the BwB without further use? Why keep mentioning Cat throughout S4? I think it could go either way.

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    46. You really can’t seriously subscribe to a theory that is born from the word “revenge” being uttered to Sansa in a 5 second trailer clip right? Am I taking crazy pills?

      Please for the love of god, expound on this theory because it’s insane if that’s what you’re hanging your hat on.

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    47. Also folks, David Bradley (Walder) has mentioned in an interview that D&D have told him that he’ll be back at some point down the road for the show so obviously the Frey’s will be dealt with to everyone’s satisfaction. It may just not be the way the books do it. Stop fretting about stuff that’s not happening exactly when you think it’s supposed to.

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    48. King Tommen: I’m more inclined to believe that the quick shot we see in the trailer of Sansa alone in a castle room with candles lit around while she’s naked in a bathtub and looking extremely anxious is leading to the controversial scene in question. And I don’t think it’s with LF.

      Wouldn’t it be funny if the Hound walked/limped in?

      “I’ll take another song, my little bird!”

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    49. Wimsey:
      Most of the audience probably has not worried about either Edmure or Blackfish, as neither are major characters. For those that do remeber, they have no reason to think that Edmure has left any dungeons. Blackfish is presumably on the lam somewhere.

      Perhaps another sparring round of BF relevance between us, W? Oh, the BF shall have his day yet! 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    50. There is no need for LS in the show since the show features no Freys anymore.

      troll#mode#on
      And who are Edmure and Blackfish? I dont remember those guys … do they have something to do with Gilly and her babe?
      #off

      #whereisgillyinthetrailershewasamajorcharacterlastseasonandseemstobemissingthisseasonwhyisthatwhenyouputherinfrontofstannislikeshegavebirthto6dragonsandnotherfathersmonsterchild

      #NOONENUDERSTANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    51. For those asking “Where are Edmure and Blackfish? What about the BwB? Why were they introduced if not for LSH?” That’s absolutely silly. Nobody watching the show is asking those questions. And you wouldn’t either if you hadn’t read AFFC. You know why? Those were secondary characters serving a purpose to the plot at the moment —Edmure and Blackfish were a window into Cat’s family, and they were there to interact with Cat and Robb. That’s basically it. The BwB were there for Arya and the Hound. That’s the reason they existed, plot-wise. There are PLENTY other secondary characters still alive who haven’t come back, especially in the books (dozens and dozens), and nobody is asking “Where are they huuuh?” as if it’s some plot hole. It’s not a plot hole. There’s just not any main characters around them anymore so we ain’t seeing where they’re and what they’re doing. That’s it.

      TL;DR: if you want to complain about the Riverlands stories not featuring in the show, do so on the basis of faithfulness to the books or the fact that you enjoy them and their characters —but please DON’T imply their absence is a plot hole of any kind.

      J Bolton,

      The same reason Ned’s been mentioned almost every episode since he died, and he ain’t coming back as a zombie.

      King Tommen,

      Yeah, people keep forgetting about that. There will be a Northern revenge. It’s just it will probably be more compressed than in the books, in which we’ve seen it coming for a whole book now.

        Quote  Reply

    52. But why they did cut this from the show?
      Obviously there is a lot of demand for it from a significant portion of book fans!

      Besides they totally had laid the foundation for it by introducing Thoros and Berric in Season 3!

      Did they just changer their mind afterward?

      Otherwise what was the purpose of showing the Brotherhood then?

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    53. Ghost’s Lunch,

      Most interesting thing I’ve read in a while. Revenge is never sweet on GoT, it happens too late, or too little, or outside the knowledge of those who would rejoice in it, or by the “wrong” hand.
      I stopped reading at book 4 (I’ve been spoilered though) for various reasons so I know about as much as Jon Snow, but I completely agree that any Northern revenge (on the show) will come out of left field and leave a bad taste.

      As for who will be exacting this revenge, well, who do we already know from the North? Cos D&D are probably not introducing brand new characters. Unless the revenge thing happens in S6, and we are introduced to more Northerners throughout S5.
      So, here is one probably stupid theory for your entertainment, please don’t scream at me if you disagree, it’s all for the fun of speculation:
      The Stark children, are not in a position to do anything significant right now, at the start of S5.
      Among the Stark men, we’ve been introduced to the Greatjon and a few others while Robb was fighting the Lannisters, but mostly we know the Roose-Boltons. My own vague and crazy theory is that they’ll want to capitalise on the impending chaos in the south (Lannister Vs Tyrell, the Sparrows, Dorne in rebellion) and grab more power. Their exactions as they do this may constitute that “revenge”. In fact I can imagine Roose-Bolton draping himself in the noble motive of avenging his former Lord to wreak havoc and serve his own ends. We can rely on them to make it as bloody and stomach-churning as it gets. And the black irony of having Ned and the North “avenged” by the psycho who sold them to the Lannisters would be very GoT…

        Quote  Reply

    54. Voice of Reason,

      Why show the Brotherhood without Banners in the first place? Really?

      … Maybe because they were interesting characters in their own right who had a great story with Arya and the Hound? If you only see the Brotherhood as a Chekov’s gun to LSH, then it is you who is underplaying those characters, not D&D. The point of showing the Brotherhood without Banners was… surprise, surprise: the Brotherhood without Banners!

      I mean, what’s the point of showing pretty much any character, if characters are there only to foreshadow other events?

        Quote  Reply

    55. Guys I put forward the sansa lsh theory onto many sites months ago but I also stated that littlefinger is away in King’s landing at the end of the season for cerseis walk. My guess is something happens to sansa, littlefinger consoles her. She takes it into mind and takes vengeance on brienne and pod because it’s the closest she can get to lannisters.

        Quote  Reply

    56. John M W: So without Stoneheart, does the Brotherhood just fall into a black hole? Or will we see them again with a still alive Beric?
      And what exactly are they going to have Brienne do this season, other than verbally spar with Podrick?

      These are the questions that make the absence of LS important. Just in terms of the character itself, I don’t think the loss is a big deal (it always struck me as a bit of a cheap thrill). But in terms of the above, it makes me worry they are doing a bit of a Lost and making things up as they go along (even in the context of having the books there). If there’s no LS (and that was the long-term plan), then why introduce the BwB and particularly Beric at all?

        Quote  Reply

    57. Ghost’s Lunch,

      Thanks for that perspective on the type of revenge that we will get.

      A Girl Will Obey:
      Ghost’s Lunch,

      Most interesting thing I’ve read in a while. Revenge is never sweet on GoT, it happens too late, or too little, or outside the knowledge of those who would rejoice in it, or by the “wrong” hand…

      So, here is one probably stupid theory for your entertainment, please don’t scream at me if you disagree, it’s all for the fun of speculation:

      It is fun to speculate and no theory should be considered “stupid.” Since no one here knows exactly what will happen, any sort of theorizing can lead to great discussion and perhaps some correct predictions.

        Quote  Reply

    58. My theory is they’ve replaced the LS character with a creation of their own to lead the Brotherhood.
      She’ll be, just to surprise everyone, a prostitute. Unlike the average dead-eyed prostitute, she’ll be witty, vibrant, beautiful and have hidden depths to her.
      Ladies and gentlemen, I give you, Lady BoneHard.

        Quote  Reply

    59. Voice of Reason,

      From what I understood they thought it a waste of Fairley, and didn’t like the character anyway.
      That’s understandable, especially since they’ve no real clue what Martin plans for the character, and it’s debatable if he even knows for sure these days.
      I don’t mind that myself, it’s reasonable. My only gripe is when characters are cut for time constraints, and instead we get some pretty naff filler material, usually involving prostitutes or lengthy rape or torture scenes.

        Quote  Reply

    60. I would like to see LS but I don’t mind if I don’t…

      [ spoiler ] Having said that, I love Michelle Fairley and think she would be so great in this role. People talk about this part being a non talking part, but LS can speak a little. The show could change that into her being able to speak normally, albeit with a coarse voice…. Also the part about her appearance and the zombification.. Come on, we have all seen that noone on the show is as disfigured as in the books… Not Reek, not Tyrion, not Beric… I imagine show LS at plain old Cat with a huge scar on her neck and maybe white hair and that’s it. But it’s een so long that if they don’t introduce this character this season, there really is no point. [ / spoiler]

      What I would mind is changing Sansa into a cold blooded killer, like Arya (I love them both by the way), or a political player that relies mainly on their sexuality (like Cersei or Margaery).We already have characters like that. I am afraid the uncomfortable scene Sophie is talking about is sexual. It’s just such a lazy trope, having her using her sexuality as a weapon. I’d much rather see her using her wits to become a skilled leader, something like a more cunning version of her mother.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Luka Nieto,

      No, the BWB is not the same as any other secondary character, because their leader was RESURRECTED. No magic in this show is supposed to be taken for granted. Once the audience saw that someone could be resurrected, that becomes an important part of the show that must be explored further. If Beric can be resurrected, who else?

        Quote  Reply

    62. goodkinghenry,

      Who else? I thought that was obvious:

      Jon Snow.

      There’s your foreshadowing. In fact, D&D even made it an explicit connection, instead of merely a thematic one: they got Melisandre all the way to the Brotherhood, not only to take Gendry but so she could have a long and elaborate conversation about resurrecting people and how Thoros managed to do it. There’s your Chekov’s gun and the payoff for the magical element of the Brotherhood.

      The Brotherhood itself doesn’t have to come back. They might, but they don’t have to. And their absence is not a plothole.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Nymeria Warrior Queen,
      About as far off topic as it’s possible to get, but I just saw your hopes and fears for Pluto in another thread and thought of number 2 and especially 3 on here http://teenormous.com/lists/far-out-space-tees-64 :O)

      Scientists can’t even agree on whether something which we know definitely exists is a planet or not, so there’s no chance anyone can be completely certain if a character will turn up in tv show or not before it actually happens (or doesn’t).

        Quote  Reply

    64. People who say “I don’t care about LSH” as a character, demonstrate a critical thinking problem… you have NO IDEA whether that character is significant to the story. How can you already have decided you don’t care if that storyline plays out in the show or not?

        Quote  Reply

    65. Sue the Fury,

      Erm, I must have missed that. I tried searching for another source but all the results shown were from the old site.
      Are there more pics of the Ice Throne? If yes, in which post?

        Quote  Reply

    66. I saw it and I thought it was real.

      But wait!

      This is all a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma.

      Or whatever the saying is.

      GoT producers and HBO put this there only to come out to say it was a hoax…and then…ta-da!–it will really happen!

      Not…

        Quote  Reply

    67. GeekFurious:
      People who say “I don’t care about LSH” as a character, demonstrate a critical thinking problem… you have NO IDEA whether that character is significant to the story. How can you already have decided you don’t care if that storyline plays out in the show or not?

      That’s true, but we can certainly judge whether we like the concept of the character, and what we have seen of her so far. And in truth we don’t know how significant ANY character is to the final endgame, but that doesn’t make all opinion about any character meaningless.

      In the books SO FAR, in my opinion LS is a cheap thrill and slightly naff. I got a kick out of that final chapter in ASoS, but I get why D&D wouldn’t necessarily want to introduce her. And I also assume they may know a little more about her importance to the endgame than we do (but then again, maybe not).

        Quote  Reply

    68. Ross: And I also assume they may know a little more about her importance to the endgame than we do (but then again, maybe not).

      I don’t believe they know much about our Lady’s ultimate role, which may be why they chose not to take a risk with her in the show.

      As Luka implied above, D&D made a big deal of showing Mel’s knowledge of R’hllor resurrection possibilities in S3, so I fully expect there to be some sort of payoff (as I do with her role in TWoW). If Mel isn’t around during an “FtW” moment, that will indeed be a headscratcher. I do enjoy being fucked with at times, but not regarding this topic.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Queensmoot:

      What I would mind is changing Sansa into a cold blooded killer, like Arya (I love them both by the way), or a political player that relies mainly on their sexuality (like Cersei or Margaery).

      It would be quite an irony if in the TV series, Sansa is the one who becomes a cold-blooded killer and Arya, after her experiences, recognizes the futility of blind revenge and tries to find justice another way. That would really subvert audience expectations, that’s for sure. I’m not against it.

      Back on topic about LS, I think D & D did include her, but changed their minds at the last minute. What happens in S5 may determine whether her exclusion is official.

        Quote  Reply

    70. I’m in the camp that accepts that said character is cut, and I’m not going to cry into my salt cod about it.

      However, I think it’s interesting that LS has been cut, because by my reckoning it’s the first time that an opportunity to depict an event that could have a huge impact for show viewers in particular has been passed up.

      I don’t count YG because that is more of a reveal for book readers – Rhaegar is not mentioned nearly enough for that reveal to make unsullied jaws drop, (perhaps just enough for them to raise an eyebrow when R+L=J is revealed but even then the shock would be at Ned not being Jon’s dad, and the royal blood part, not so much at Rhaegar being the father…)

      Manderly for season 6 please. Ta ra!

        Quote  Reply

    71. Luka Nieto,

      Yes, but resurrection should be explored more fully because it’s a big deal. LSH replaced Beric for a reason and this is independant of future Mel works.

        Quote  Reply

    72. Hodor’s Bastard: I don’t believe they know much about our Lady’s ultimate role, which may be why they chose not to take a risk with her in the show

      I’m sure at the least they have some kind of system with GRRM where they can at least ask “Is this element fundamental to future events / the endgame – yes or no”. And he gave the nod for Dorne and shook his head for The Iron Islands. Perhaps.

        Quote  Reply

    73. goodkinghenry,

      Sigh…

      How does Jon being brought back to life not “explore resurrection fully”? As I said, if you like LSH, fine —but her absence is not a plot hole or a story thread left behind. In one of the biggest departures from the book in Season 3, D&D brought Mel into the BwB resurrection stuff —there’s with whom it will pay off. You may not like it and that’s fine, but the magic thread won’t be lost. And, as I explained, the BwB characters already served their purpose.

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    74. goodkinghenry,

      I really wish GRRM never put the stupid resurrecting characters plot device in the books because of people like you. We all know Mel is going to resurrect someone who got stabbed in the books so thats probably why they had her talk about that mumbo jumbo when she met Thoros in the show. Maybe the show runners didn’t want every finale to be a shocking this person wasn’t really dead reveal.

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    75. Baby Gregor just broke a 1000 year old Viking record by lifting a log weighing 680kg (1500 lbs) and walking 5 baby Gregor steps.

      Better than Conan Stevens but still worse than Ian Whyte. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    76. Lord Elmo Tully,

      GoT is enjoyable with or without LSH. That being said, you gotta admit she is an intriguing piece of the puzzle. At the very least, the most interesting part of the Riverlands story.

        Quote  Reply

    77. goodkinghenry:
      Lord Elmo Tully,

      GoT is enjoyable with or without LSH. That being said, you gotta admit she is an intriguing piece of the puzzle. At the very least, the most interesting part of the Riverlands story.

      I don’t find her all that interesting. GRRM himself hasn’t done anything too notable with her in the two large tomes and 15 years that have passed since the ASOS epilogue. Her appearance is starting to feel like it was done purely for the shock without much thought put into her future role. Maybe I have a critical thinking problem… but I’m happy to not have her in the TV series. Ditto with caricatures like Belwas and nuisances like Penny. Diff’rent strokes for diff’rent folks I guess.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Ross,

      You gotta wonder how that works between them…especially since, as GRRM puts it, “the tale is told in the telling.”

      (I bet it isn’t as clear as folks assume)

        Quote  Reply

    79. Lulu’s Mum,

      Thanks for that link! It gave me a great mid-morning chuckle. I also love how you brought it back around to GoT. 🙂

      I have no doubt the Frey’s will get their comeuppance. How it will be accomplished, which characters will be involved, and when it happens it beyond me, but it will happen. To me, that is happens is most important. There may be some of D&D’s changes I haven’t particularly liked, but I trust them enough to believe however they go about “resolving” this issue, it will be satisfying.

        Quote  Reply

    80. Bittersteel:
      The most convincing hint towards Stoneheart is something that is never mentioned at all: D&D are on record as saying they picked Michelle Fairley after watching her as Lady Macbeth on the stage, and seeing the rage, the horror and the sheer power of her performance in it. In other words, they seemed to be looking for a Stoneheart far more than a Catelyn.

      On one of the DVDs/blurays from an earlier season (2 I think – saw it on YouTube) Michelle Fairley was giving a commentary with NCW and mentioned that they had seen her playing Emilia in “Othello”. I guess they could have also seen her in “Macbeth”.

        Quote  Reply

    81. King Tommen,

      Thank you! Reading this eased my fears of a completely unrecognizable Sansa. I would rather limited screentime with her and LF, then seeing them morph her character in a LS clone. Lame because the (slightly) naive, compassionate girl is who she tries so hard to hold onto has to remain in some way. A vengeance filled killer, on the orders of a man she is onto (at least a little bit), strips away any agency she is developing.

        Quote  Reply

    82. What I would mind is changing Sansa into a cold blooded killer, like Arya (I love them both by the way), or a political player that relies mainly on their sexuality (like Cersei or Margaery).We already have characters like that. I am afraid the uncomfortable scene Sophie is talking about is sexual. It’s just such a lazy trope, having her using her sexuality as a weapon. I’d much rather see her using her wits to become a skilled leader, something like a more cunning version of her mother.

      I am in the camp that Arya, while definitely falling off the deep end, isn’t a cold-blooded killer. She is trying hard to forget her Stark roots but it’s proven pretty impossible. And she hasn’t blindly followed the FM. She has defied their “rules” and while the bloodlust is strong, I think she will prove to be a hell of a Warrior with her own moral code based on her “Stark-ness”. 🙂
      But, like you, I wonder if “the scene” Sophie talked about is sexual. I thought it would either be Sansa causing someone’s death (Sweetrobin), which I think would internally crush her even if her outer facade remains passive, or Sansa offering herself to Littlefinger. Some characters using sex as a weapon, well, it can make for compelling storytelling but this is a Cersei move, like you said. It wasn’t about agency or pleasure, it was about power. Given that Sophie is of age, I am not really surprised that D&D would capitalize on it but Sansa is still 14-15?
      Hell, I read SanSan fic and some of that dirty shit is good reading but I really don’t want show Sansa to be such a blatant departure. The girl who shared one kiss with the guy who killed her father and now she is going to seduce Westeros’ biggest whore-monger? Sansa has made some foolish choices, all the characters have, but that would be perhaps the most asinine.
      I am all about her using her wits to continue to survive and to be able to hold onto, not the fantasy, but the hope of happiness. I can’t see the Sansa I envision just handing away the “weapon” between her legs. Sansa is repulsed by LF in the books, rightly so. If show Sansa goes the seduction route, then the writers aren’t giving her agency, they are making her look stupid.
      What I would really like is for Sansa to say “All you fucks are crazy. Stick the throne up your ass. I’m gonna hang out in this cottage with my cool lover, have bastards and be happy. Peace out bitches.”
      Because at the end, I know a lot of people want “Queen In The North”, I think Sansa will want nothing to do with power or politics.

        Quote  Reply

    83. Nick Hartley,

      Because he probably isn’t in the show. He wasn’t really dead in episode 10. Qyburn didn’t give any indication of cheesy dark magic —just creepy medieval and unethical medicine. Filming reports state the Mountain was at the gates of the Red Keep (among others) waiting for Cersei after her famous event late in the season, clothed as a Kingsguard, without a helmet. So he may be, as Qyburn says, “different,” but not a Frankenstein monster.

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    84. GeekFurious,

      I. Don’t. Care. About LS.

      She’s nothing to the story. Just drags it down an a waste on GRRM mind. That zombie is just a zombie, nothing else. No power, just a few thugs around her.

      Sansa, Jon, arya, Brienne, blackfish, The others, Tyrells can finish the Freys.
      Ms. Flinstone can be replaced to something less corny. I don’t want to see that mute walking around holding her neck giving hand signals.

        Quote  Reply

    85. Nymeria Warrior Queen,
      Awww, poor Pluto. Does have a Disney character named after it thought so can do one-upmanship on the other 8 there 😉

      Don’t know the story well enough to offer a useful view on what will happen Frey-wise. Obviously most of us hope there will be justice but the fate of the Starks so far is proof that trying to be just and fair and a ‘good guy’ doesn’t often work if no one else is playing nicely 🙁 Even if they get full on vengeance and everyone involved in the RW pays the price it doesn’t undo the damage.

      Just suddenly hit me why Frey pies sound so familiar. There’s a UK firm called Frey Bentos who make pies. Ewwww! Perhaps GRRM has been getting some of his writing inspiration while strolling around the supermarket!

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    86. Sorry can’t get that last para to be spoiler covered. I know which code to use but it doesn’t seem to be making any difference. Could a mod do it for me please if you think it’s necessary. Thanks 🙂

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    87. What are Fairley’s representatives supposed to say? “Oh yes, Michelle is returning to Game of Thrones for Season 5”

      Of course it is going to be denied.

      And the LS haters make my head explode. What would you rather have, more boring Tyrells sipping tea and eating crumpets, sitting around King’s Landing doing absolutely nothing? BORING.

        Quote  Reply

    88. Luka Nieto,

      But LSH wouldn’t replace the politics of Kings Landing, that’s the thing! There are some Kings Landing scenes which are absolutely useless and boring. Exhibit A: Pod getting his reward.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Stone Cold Batard: What would you rather have, more boring Tyrells sipping tea and eating crumpets, sitting around King’s Landing doing absolutely nothing? BORING.

      No, I’d rather have some of the story lines from that actually are in the book (albeit streamlined and amalgamated to make for decent TV) rather than either.

      And that’s the big question: given that LSH has no effect on the story and has almost no effect on the plot, what would they have her do for an entire season?

      goodkinghenry: But LSH wouldn’t replace the politics of Kings Landing, that’s the thing!

      But what would LSH replace? There isn’t any analog of Craster’s Keep where they could adapt some events in the book to include her. The large number of lead characters means that the plots need to be streamlined, and the story lines need to be coupled. However, with which lead character could they attach LSH?

      Remember, she appears in one page in Crows and no pages in Dragons. Making her part of Season 5 would have taken huge adaptation and modification of the plots without any obvious benefit to the story.

        Quote  Reply

    90. I seriously doubt the decision to nix LS has anything to do with there not being time enough in the show. She is barely a presence in the books, as of now. She would have appeared in one scene in the show at this point. The decision likely revolved around them not wanting to go to the resurrection well too often, especially if Jon’s fate is to be resurrected later in the story. It may also have to do with the character not effecting the story all that much moving forward. I’d be happy with the Brotherhood returning to the show, even with LS, though, preferably with the Blackfish as a member.

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    91. Sumobrottare:
      How is it possible that people haven’t given up the hope of LS, Young Griff etc.? HOW?!

      Pie-eyed optimism? The LSH appearance just makes sense (pertaining to her being a bigger part of the story). She’s an established character who was killed in the show’s most famous scene outside of maybe her husband’s death. 4 of her children are still running around Westeros/Essos and 3 of them have been main characters of the show for 4 seasons and 2 will be this next season. Griff/Young Griff doesn’t bother me because I didn’t care for that part of Tyrion’s storyline and thought it was too much to have another potential person to sit the Iron Throne, after Dany and

      Jon

      . It just seemed unnecessary to me but I don’t begrudge anyone who loves those characters and it certainly wouldn’t bother me if they showed up down the line if the plot was intriguing enough. I flipping hate most of the Ironborn and won’t be sad if they get chucked either. But I know there are some Euron and Victarion lovers out there who would be sad pandas, so I can empathize. All the storylines!! Do it B&W!!

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    92. Laura: Pie-eyed optimism?

      The other thing is that if either character was going to be included, then we would expect both to appear in Season 6. As we never should have expected either in Season 5, the fact that neither does appear is not evidence against the idea that they will be in Season 6.

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    93. Wimsey,

      She must be attached to the same major characters she was attached to in the books, Brienne and Pod! Sadly to say she was the most interesting thing about her AFFC chapters. (Sorry Nimble Dick!)

        Quote  Reply

    94. goodkinghenry,

      Brienne does not meet up with LSH until the last pages of Briennes 8th and final chapter. That means a cameo at the end of the season OR heavily revising things. And that brings us back to the question, to what main character do you attach LSH?

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    95. Luka Nieto,

      First off, I LOVED the brotherhood characters especially Thoros (the actor was awesome) and besides Edmure and Blackfish I have constantly been bitching why they are not back on the show!

      But, when I say why show brotherhood Im referring to why did they have to show the bringing people back from dead?
      Why throw such a big magical element in there if youre not gonna use it somehow?
      People (with good enough IQ) are gonna be like hey what happened to the guy who brings the dead back???

        Quote  Reply

    96. Voice of Reason,

      What’s gonna happen? Well, I bet it’s Jon. Jon’s gonna happen. Thoros transmitted that knowledge to Mel, so now that magical element introduced with Thoros will pay off with Mel.

      Thoros himself does not have to appear for that element to pay off. Though I agree: I LOVED Thoros and Beric, and the Blackfish as well. I would love them to come back. I just don’t think they’re necessary, or that their absence is any sort of plot hole or a storytelling problem. I want them to come back because I really like how the actors played the characters.

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    97. Luka Nieto: Thoros himself does not have to appear for that element to pay off.

      That is the key thing that I think is being missed: what Thoros did was develop the Red Priests, not just himself. What the audience now knows is that their religion has some real power to it: it’s not just a lot of words and people imagining things in fires. It’s also not just Melisandre or some powers completely unique to her.

      Think of the different religions here as things shaped like guns. The Sept of the Seven is probably a toy gun: it looks like a gun, but it doesn’t have any actual power. The Red Church is a real gun: and what they did is take it down from the wall, shot it, made a big hole in something, and put it back on the wall.

      They do not need to use the exact same bullets as before: it does not have to be Thoros and it does not have to be resurrection. What the audience knows is that people like Mel can work “miracles” and that there actually is some real power behind what they do.

      This actually is the logical fallacy in the “Jon is dead and will be resurrected” argument; what GRRM has shown is that Mel can do pretty miraculous things, and if she just “heals” him, then we cannot say that we had no idea that she could do such things.

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    98. Do you know what’s the worst? when someone refute the possiblity of the Lady Stone Heart on the show some geniuses just pop out suddenly and tell these kind of cliche words…

      ”Oh thanks God she was one of the one-dimensional character in the books”

      ” No problem I’m not her fan”

      ”Glad she’s not coming back”

      ”She wasn’t that important”

      No offence my friends but You’re the worst… I mean we don’t care your idiotic approach… we don’t care who’s your favorite neither whom you care most… Just SHOW SOME RESPECT TO PEOPLE WHO REALLY CARE LSH … and believe or not Majority of the readers demand her! Having tons of pages doesn’t make someone more important than other… Some roles are more critical than others even they’re written less… we don’t know how LSH’s storyline will end and what it will cause! And yeah returning of one of major PoV with full of hatred in the books makes me want to watch her on the Show!

      Hope same things happen to your favorite characters as well… then we’ll see how you crying on forums when they got cut off or treated in very different way…

      Producers would never say ‘hey look Michelle Fairley is Back’ this is like telling ‘Hey We’re planning to Kill Robb on the 9th episode of 3rd Season’ in the beginning of of the series

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    99. Stone Cold Batard, I nearly screamed with joy when i read your comment, finally someone with their heads screwed on right, pretty much summed up everything i feel about this, i was going crazy reading the amount of hate for LS, even people agreeing Sansa should take her role (Seriously? That would literally ruin the entire show) I even saw one comment that said anyone else could deal with the Freys, and even listed the Tyrells as one such person (or persons in this case) to do it. How in the hell would that work, they are not even close to being part of the Frey story, never mind they are currently allies with the Lannisters who orchestrated the RW with the Freys. They really just need to cast her and let her speak if that is what all the trouble’s about, or make her look less zombie-ish if that’s what it is, i don’t know but there are plenty of ways to get around this without dropping the character and story arc completely because someone needs to start killing Frey’s soon, unless they are just completely writing off that part of the story. I have a feeling she is still going to turn up at some point, and agree with the people on here who commented how her representatives couldn’t exactly tell people that yes she is working on season 5. D&D seem to be getting very bold with the story their adapting for television, much more severe changes to the storyline, not just bit’s and pieces left out for times sake, and this will start to become their own story of someone else’s story, which i really don’t want.

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    100. As i read further down the comment section i see a lot more people have come out in defence of LS and her story in the books, to which i am glad to see, i feel the people who don’t like her story in the books just see it as a cheap way to shock people by bringing back a character, but i felt it was very smartly done, First with Beric and the BwB finding her in the river, and Beric eventually giving up his gift to bring her back and ultimately sacrifice his own, to her leading the rest of the BwB on a revenge mission. Because there was not a lot of her in the books after the last chapter of ASoS, people dismiss her as not important, but i feel George made the right choice just leaving her out for a lot of it, because all she is doing is hanging anyone named Frey, there would not exactly be a lot of excitement in her chapters, but you hear from time to time what she is doing so it keeps you somehwat up to track, and then obviously we have the bit at the end of FFC with Brienne, and then with Jaime in DwD, so she could have a major influence on how the story will go in WoW, and will definitely influence two major characters (Jaime and Brienne) at least, so still a bit puzzled as to how they would leave her out unless they change a very significant (not to mention loved by a lot of fans) part of the story.

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