Game of Thrones: Post-Mortem of “Oathbreaker”

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Flashbacks, surprise returns and Olly death, what more could you want from an episode? Now that we’ve all had a chance to recover from this week’s joyous Game of Thrones , let’s take a look at some of the videos and interviews surrounding “Oathbreaker.”

Entertainment Weekly spoke to Owen Teale about how he played his role as the hardened Ser Alliser Thorne.

Thorne’s boots is not a nice place to be. I found the most important thing when playing the character was to just get rid of a whole section of feelings that I have as a human being — like joy, for instance, that’s just gone. Once I achieved that, in my mind, to look at Jon Snow, who has the world before him and talent and is this personal human being, to look at him while you’re feeling joyless, then Snow presses all the wrong buttons — that really helped to be able to react to him as a character and not as me.

They also discussed fan reaction to his murder of Jon Snow and some of the stranger things people ask him to do in public.

Jon Snow represented hope and humanity and he’s a very lovely guy and I thought people would just hate me, but I have to say that wasn’t true — most just thanked me for bringing such drama to the show. They hated the moment, but loved it as well….Once a drunk came out of a restaurant with a knife in his hand and I thought, ‘which way is this going to go?’ Then he offered me the handle and said, ‘Oh no-no-no, I just want a photo – you hold the knife to me.’ I got used to that. People want me to look very mean for a second and say, ‘for the watch.’ I’ve really enjoyed doing something as an artist that provokes such a reaction.

Talking about his fate in Oathbreaker, Teale reveals:

I wasn’t sure what was going on and I kind of demanded a bit more openness because I was about to do my deal for season 6. I refused to close my deal until they told me, I wanted them to be clear with me. It was all quite close to filming. It wasn’t a very long conversation, it was a bit of mutual appreciation society. I felt a great sense of achievement and a sense of loss. Thorne was never an easy guy to be with.

You can read the full interview here

Entertainment Weekly also spoke with everyone’s favourite resurrected Night’s Watchmen Kit Harington about returning from the other side.

At first, I was worried that (Jon will) wake up and he’s the same, back to normal — then there’s no point in that death.  He needs to change. There’s a brilliant line when Melisandre asks: ‘What did you see?’ And he says: ‘Nothing, there was nothing at all.’ That cuts right to our deepest fear, that there’s nothing after death. And that’s the most important line in the whole season for me. Jon’s never been afraid of death, and that’s made him a strong and honourable person. He realizes something about his life now: He has to live it because that’s all there is. He’s been over the line and there’s nothing there. And that changes him. It literally puts the fear of God into him. He’s seen oblivion, and that’s got to change somebody in the most fundamental way there is. He doesn’t want to die ever again. But if he does, he doesn’t want to be brought back.”

Of the Night’s Watch, Harington has this to say:

He’s done with it.  He’s seen the other side, seen what’s there, and comes back and realizes he needs to lead his life and get out of there. This place betrayed him, and everything he stood for has changed. Plus, he had to kill a child, Olly, and that’s what really does it. He kills an under-age kid and he can’t see the point in being up there any more. At the heart of it, he knows by staying at the Wall he can’t help the kingdoms and he’s probably going to die very quickly if he stays.”

Check out the whole thing here

Meanwhile, faceless man Tom Wlaschiha spoke to Making Game of Thrones about playing such an enigmatic character.

I don’t really know much more than the audience does. As an actor, you play different sides of the character, and if they’re contradictory, then there you have the secret or the enigma. It’s great to play a character that is multi-layered and not straightforward because it gives you an opportunity to discover different shades of the character…Jaqen doesn’t like to get his hands dirty. If he does something, he is very secretive. He would never show that things take an effort; he makes everything seem effortless.

On his relationship with Arya:

I think he definitely has a soft spot for Arya. Otherwise he wouldn’t be spending that much time with her and really trying to give her the best training she can get. Obviously, Arya doesn’t see it that way. After Season 5, I got a lot of reactions from the audience asking, “Why? What did you do?” But from his point of view, over the seasons, Jaqen has been very consistent with what he wants. He picked Arya for a reason, and he’s not making it easy for her, but hopefully that’s in her best interest….Jaqen wants to continue with Arya’s training to make her the best possible weapon that she can be, and we’ll see if Arya complies with that.

Read the rest here.

The blog also spoke to Carice van Houten about Melisandre’s role this season.

We start with messy Melisandre – she looks bad, she doesn’t sleep – to her slowly regaining her faith and her confidence… slowly feeling like she has a place in this game.  (Davos) can see her vulnerability for the first time. She’s more approachable. They’re in the same boat because they both lost. First they lost Stannis, and then Jon Snow, who they had high hopes for. That bonds us a little bit.

On seeing Jon Snow alive for the first time:

She’s completely confused. She doesn’t really understand what her power is, exactly. When she basically says to Davos in the second episode, ‘I don’t know how to do it, don’t count on me, I’m nobody really,’ she’s in a true identity crisis. So once it works out, she is completely confused how she did it. But she regains a little bit of her faith, just a sparkle of hope that there might still be something, that she’s not completely crazy.

She discusses what Melisandre makes of Jon revealing there’s nothing after life.

 Well, I think she wanted to hear a little bit more than “nothing,” like anyone would. In that sense she’s the eyes of the audience. Anyone would ask a person who comes back from the dead, “Please tell me there’s something good there” – or that there’s something. And he says nothing. That’s as frustrating to her as to anyone, I think.

Check out the rest of the interview here.

Finally, new Khal in town Joe Naufahu had a quick chat with The Wrap about Daenerys’ storyline this season.

The Dothraki want to follow their traditions and Daenerys wants to do something else, so it’s going to come to a crossroads.  Someone’s going to have to make a decision. There’s going to be fireworks, for sure.

Naufahu also said that his Khal Moro is a little different from the others we’ve seen on screen so far.

He’s got a good sense of humor and I think he’s a little more relaxed.  He doesn’t really show his power, and he enjoys a good joke with his bloodriders.

You can read the original article here.


 

In this week’s “Inside the Episode” David Benioff and D.B. Weiss discuss employing the flashback device to explore Ned Stark’s history, as well as looking at Daenerys’ arrival at the Dosh Khaleen, and exploring the themes surrounding Jon’s resurrection.

Jacob Anderson, Nathalie Emmanuel and Peter Dinklage discuss that rather awkward conversation scene between Grey Worm, Missandei and Tyrion.

162 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. Jon wants to live his life. Which I’m assuming means the life of the bastard of Winterfell who has half siblings he wants to look out for. I imagine that means Sansa, Rickon, and Arya, though it could include at least the desire to go beyond the wall for Bran. Though I don’t see him doing that.

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    2. Rhaenys Stark,

      Robert Aramayo is playing younger version of Ned Stark. So of course more flashbacks. Maybe not only what is inside of tower but something else.

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    3. Now that his watch has ended, I do hope we will not have a shortage of compelling antagonists this season. Thorne definitely was the most grounded, most relatable antagonist in the last couple episodes which really elevated the Wall-storyline above the others. He was a prick, but a prick with his own set of morals, values and a certain agenda that night’s watch hardliners could get behind which made him a very compelling counterpart to Jon.

      Who’s left now who has a clear agenda or at least some immediately interesting things to do? Ramsay wants to kill everything that directly opposes him and is so full of shocking …surprsises…, it’s getting a bit predictable by now. Cersei is also Cersei as always, only slightly more paranoid, nothing interesting here (except the preview really hints at that huge twist in her development, but it just seems to be a ruse, tbh). Who’s left then? Euron has to be explored as a character first and foremost, that one is out of the equasion for the most part…. So basically only the High Sparrow is left, I would say.

      Thus I’m pretty sure that the next two episodes will be very slow and world/character-building, providing the High Sparrow and Cersei with enough antagonisty things to do to deepen their characters while the Rickon/Ramsay conversations will do the same with Team Ramsay (I hope so, he’s getting a bit too predictable in his Rabid dog-fashion). If they take their time to build them up again, I’m confident that all these “villains” will be very intriguing once again.

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    4. Dee,

      I am not emotionally ready for a Stark reunion……
      So many years waiting, frustratingly turning the pages and seeing it just get worse and worse….

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    5. Dee,

      LOL.

      They’ll meet. Sansa will tell him what happened and he will find about Rickon, then ride alongside Sansa to retake WF!

      Then all 3 will go to the Twins to kill Walder Frey, where of course Sansa says ”The Starks send their regards”.

      Or i just ”didn’t pay attention”..

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    6. HBO isn’t going to show the Stark reunion in the preview. They have to make us doubt it is going to happen. That way, the reunion will have more of an impact.

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    7. Dee,

      I don’t think I’d be able to handle myself if Arya and Sansa ever meet up again….
      Something about those Stark sisters represent the emotional core of the series

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    8. Raynald Westerling,

      Haha, I’m not a fan of hyperbole, but in this case I just have to agree! After the dead direwolf in today’s episode, I need a Stark reunion and I want it to make me cry like a baby. Ahh the wait for next episode feels worse than the wait for the premiere!!

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    9. “What’s on the other side? What did you see?”

      “Nothing. Nothing at all.”

      See? Jon Snow still knows nothing! And because of his death, he knows nothing even better! 😀

      Happy Monday! 🙂

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    10. I noticed in the recap Sue mentioned that O’Connor (Olly) didn’t have a single line of dialogue in 3 episodes this season and maybe it was because he’s getting older and his voice is changing…

      Do you think that’s why Rickon had no dialogue last night?

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    11. Wylie,

      Idk I was comparing pictures of shaggy dog before his head got plopped on the table. A. The head is way to small to be a dire wolf. Remember when they beheaded poor greywind and his head was HUGE on Robb’s body? Judging by the hook in his head this one is small in comparison, And the living dire wolves have no doubt grown since then. B. The head on the table is all black whereas when shaggy dog was alive he had soft greyish features around his face. C. The Umbers have always been loyal to house Stark, why change pace now! Unlike the karkstarks who have some kind of reason to leave the Starks behind, the Umbers have none. Simple observation ??

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    12. Jon’s not going anywhere once he hears Ramsay has Rickon. We still haven’t heard his “Winterfell is mine. Come and see” line yet.

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    13. I don’t think Jon and the gang (Mel, Davos etc) are leaving before Sansa gets there. But the reunion will be short because Ramsay will send a letter instead of going to attack. He’s trying to play his father now. I noticed in this episode. He would have had his men cut Umber down for saying everything he said if he was his usual self. He’s trying to be the Warden of the North now and so he’ll keep Rickon as a hostage and send the letter saying, “Winterfell is mine. Come and see.”
      Then Team White As Snow (which is what I’m calling Jon, Davos, Brienne and Pod–all the really honorable people in the show in one place) will start a plan to retake the North and Winterfell so they can be ready for the dead…who are still coming.

      I had a dream that Arya will leave FM and get home in time for a big family reunion, but that doesn’t seem likely. I hope before the series ends we see the Stark kids who are left together again.

      OT I had a talk with a friend who is really hoping we have a vision in every episode. I have to agree. I do think there will be at least four more based on trailers. The rest of ToJ, the shadow of King Aerys dying?, The Night’s King vision, Hodor. (unless Hodor is part of ToJ…). I know they won’t go backward in history-vision wise-which is a shame because I would have loved to have seen the tourney at Harrenhal. LF told the story already, but not that one part…

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    14. RG:
      I don’t think Jon and the gang (Mel, Davos etc) are leaving before Sansa gets there. But the reunion will be short because Ramsay will send a letter instead of going to attack. He’s trying to play his father now. I noticed in this episode. He would have had his men cut Umber down for saying everything he said if he was his usual self. He’s trying to be the Warden of the North now and so he’ll keep Rickon as a hostage and send the letter saying, “Winterfell is mine. Come and see.”

      Remember what Roose said to him. If he’s going to treat people as a mad dog, he’ll be treated that way too and slaughtered for pig feed.

      This is why Ramsay as you said acted and will act more as a Warden of the North, send letter, taunting bastard and let him come. He’s got Rickon now, more men. So he can send ultimatum and he knows Sansa went to Castle Black. It’s all matching up and we’ll see pink letter or some version of it.

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    15. I believe that was supposed to be Dawn that Ser Arthur was sharpening at the start of the flashback scene. However, I think it was intended to be a cameo, rather than really get into the story of the sword without having the time for it.

      It did seem to have an unusual colour to it.

      That whole episode was thick with set ups and foreshadowing.

      – Arya’s call backs to her relationships with Jon and The Hound

      -Qyburn and the little birds

      -Dany and the whole “we have to decide what to do with you and who to attack next (wink wink)” Dothraki plot

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    16. If someone can find the score they used when Jon killed the traitors and left the watch, let me know.
      Bloody brilliant soundtrack, wasn’t disappointed.

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    17. I’d love to see a scene wherein the fully-trained Bran takes The Three-Eyed Raven on a trip to his past and clear up those Bloodraven rumors.

      Btw, I hope for their sake of their health that Bran, Hodor and Meera are eating more than just crow’s eggs up there in the frozen tundra. A person needs fiber.

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    18. Matthew The Dragon Knight:
      If someone can find the score they used when Jon killed the traitors and left the watch, let me know.
      Bloody brilliant soundtrack, wasn’t disappointed.

      Can’t wait for the soundtrack and the blu ray release 🙂

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    19. Dee,

      Maybe Osha. He doesn’t need her but Rickon is a valuable hostage while alive. He’s safe until battle and then probably die because Starks you know. We know he’s not the one on the crosses.

      People are split if this is part GNC show version or simply the Umbers siding with the Boltons. Both of them makes sense given how zero fucks Smalljon gave, no kneeling and also logic tells you that Umbers and Wildlings hate each other as much as NW and wildlngs each other. Truly wonderfully done by D&D so we candebate which way it will go. I would bet on the Umbers simply hating wildlings and the idea of them south of the wall.

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    20. Geralt of Rivia:
      Rhaenys Stark,

      Robert Aramayo is playing younger version of Ned Stark. So of course more flashbacks. Maybe not only what is inside of tower but something else.

      I am hoping some visions of him with Lyanna before the big reveal at the tower, I would love to see a lot of her and to learn more about her.

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    21. Team stark,

      While I admire your optimism and understand your objections concerning the direwolf’s head, fellow Stark devotee, I just don’t think that the Umbers are faking. The reasons given by the Smalljon all sounded very solid to me. Sadly. But thanks for trying to cheer me up! 🙂

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    22. CatspawAssassin:
      A person needs fiber.

      “A man needs fibre! Hi there, I am No One. When serving the Man-faced God, it’s important to be regular. This is why a man always starts his day with Faceless Fibre!”

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    23. Phyllis,

      I am guessing Osha will be. I don’t think the other will be Rickon. I think he will keep him alive up until the battle. But not flay him. He may still die just not on the cross. The second though is tough to answer. Either someone friends with Jon who went to talk to Ramsay before the battle OR a northern lord who “sided” with Ramsay and he found out. Something like that. Manderly perhaps. I think the Umbers are fully with the Boltons for the most part. They hate the Wildlings. I smell a smalljon vs tormund fight. Which Tormund wins of course!

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    24. I think a seemingly gigantic horde of wildlings, who have historically raped and pillaged your lands, seems like a good enough reasoning for the Umbers to abandon their fealty to the Starks tbh….Especially given how smalljon umber is characterized in the show
      Though im not against a northern conspiracy… (

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    25. Stargaryen:
      Phyllis,

      I am guessing Osha will be.I don’t think the other will be Rickon.I think he will keep him alive up until the battle.But not flay him.He may still die just not on the cross.The second though is tough to answer.Either someone friends with Jon who went to talk to Ramsay before the battle OR a northern lord who “sided” with Ramsay and he found out.Something like that.Manderly perhaps.I think the Umbers are fully with the Boltons for the most part.They hate the Wildlings.I smell a smalljon vs tormund fight.Which Tormund wins of course!

      There’s more than 2 crosses.

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    26. Stargaryen:
      Phyllis,

      I think the Umbers are fully with the Boltons for the most part.They hate the Wildlings.I smell a smalljon vs tormund fight.Which Tormund wins of course!

      Yep. Smalljon as the leader of people who hates wildlings vs leader of the wildlings. Besides if he truly killed Shaggy, he’s gotta go. He wouldn’t walk out of this alive, same as Ramsay.

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    27. I have to agree that the Umbers are slow playing their hand with Ramsay. I don’t think that was Shaggydog’s head either. As some have said it was not the right color and it was rather small. The northern allegiances will all fall into place and become clear when Manderly arrives.

      The flashback of ToJ was great. The sword fight between AD VS 4 northmen was bad ass and as soon as BR stopped Bran from going up the steps after his dad I said, “you son of bitch” out loud. Haha, I knew the scene would be broken up for the reveal in another episode but I was hoping none the less. But I was content with finally meeting Howland Reed. That sneaky mofo is lying low these days.

      This season has been awesome through the first 3 eps and we still have Bastard Bowl, Riverlands siege, Freys, Manderly, Robert Strong defending Cersei in trial, and Ian McFookinShane.

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    28. I want to know what we should send Jon and Davos as a wedding gift…

      Davos did place his cloak on Jon bare naked body…And as custom dictated they are now wed…

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    29. I dont know , i feel like this season is too predictable….

      Can we pls just kill off the danny character ..6 season and shes still in essos…really….!

      Also, if the spoiler on redditt the guy says

      rickon is shot upon when he runs toward jon but it is unconfirmed if he died . Ive said this before, Rickons death wouldnt make any sense if all of this is to restore the stark heir, and that is Rickon since bran wont be. I think Sansa has a bigger role, she wont stay in wintefell. She cant further the family name. However I believe in the end she will be someone very important.

      As for the Umbers, its all a scheme to defeat the Boltons. This show is becoming kind of predictable. Once the Vale army attacks, the Umbers will turn on the Boltons. SmallJon will basically be playing lord Manderly.

      Extinct house List grows by the end of season 6

      Baratheon
      Martell
      Karstark
      Bolton

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    30. Fancy word for a sellsword:
      I believe that was supposed to be Dawn that Ser Arthur was sharpening at the start of the flashback scene. However, I think it was intended to be a cameo, rather than really get into the story of the sword without having the time for it.

      It did seem to have an unusual colour to it.

      That whole episode was thick with set ups and foreshadowing.

      – Arya’s call backs to her relationships with Jon and The Hound

      -Qyburn and the little birds

      -Dany and the whole “we have to decide what to do with you and who to attack next (wink wink)” Dothraki plot

      That was Oswell Whent sharpening his regular sword (too a second watch)

      First look at Dawn is when Dayne places it right in front of the camera when he sheathes it into the earth, with the little star rising sigil on the hilt

      Intriguingly, he disarms Ned, but drops it in front, Ned picks it up and slays Arthur Dayne with Dawn!

      That is also the sword he is running up the stairs with, somehow I think there is more to come regarding that sword and certain “promises”

      Of course there is something of a theme emerging, Mel harps on about the “Prince that was Promised”, and Lyanna is giving birth to a Prince, and asking Ned to “Promise me” ahhh

      I have a theory he will make the promise/pledge based on the sword, ala Brienne with Oathkeeper, when the time is right to describe the link between Jon and the sword (Dawn)

      Lol, I spent an entire re-watch paying attention to the sword

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    31. Ghosts Lunch: That was Oswell Whent sharpening his regular sword (too a second watch)

      First look at Dawn is when Dayne places it right in front of the camera when he sheathes it into the earth, with the little star rising sigil on the hilt

      Intriguingly, he disarms Ned, but drops it in front, Ned picks it up and slays Arthur Dayne with Dawn!

      That is also the sword he is running up the stairs with, somehow I think there is more to come regarding that sword and certain “promises”

      Of course there is something of a theme emerging, Mel harps on about the “Prince that was Promised”, and Lyanna is giving birth to a Prince, and asking Ned to “Promise me” ahhh

      I have a theory he will make the promise/pledge based on the sword, ala Brienne with Oathkeeper, when the time is right to describe the link between Jon and the sword (Dawn)

      Lol, I spent an entire re-watch paying attention to the sword

      Eddie confirmed he was Hightower on twitter. Not Whent.

      https://twitter.com/EddieEyre/status/729738919433121792

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    32. Leo Woodruff portrayed Howland Reed. He’s a famous stunt double who did work for GoT in 2012 i believe.

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    33. Raynald Westerling,

      You’ll see the Sansa/Jon reunion I’m sure. Jon walking out was a symbolic way to end the episode. But I can’t imagine he literally waked out right there. How far is he going to get on foot by himself? And this would means he leaves without Ghost. And besides he’d have to pass Sansa on the way to Castle Black anyway if he really was leaving on foot. It’s pretty stupid if D&D actually had him leave on foot right then and there. It makes little sense. I think she’ll arrive, he won’t be there, she’ll find out what happens and he returns from his little walk at the end of the episode and they’ll reunite in the final scene.

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    34. CC:
      I want to know what we should send Jon and Davos as a wedding gift…

      Davos did place his cloak on Jon bare naked body…And as custom dictated they are now wed…

      ROFL

      Correct

      Making the 8,

      Think Karstarks are fully Bolton, Umbers themselves but I do think they’ve knifed the Starks, they make a point that he cares not for customs of allegiance and disliked his father, distancing himself from Greatjons perspective. Think the Wolves head theories reflect that the prop department made it too small. Then there’s the fact there isn’t much written material for Rickon, Sansa has his arc so I don’t think he’s around for much longer

      Manderly’s though, I think it is through them we’ll see the Boltons double-crossed, not the Umbers

      Then there’s the Reeds, something has stuck in the mind about “he stabbed him in the back”. I think that’s what Howland is and has been doing for the entire series lol, he’ll get up out of nowhere and knife the Boltons critically, paving the way for the Starks to deal a killing blow

      My personal theory in development (based partly on the preview tbh) is that we think all is lined up, but then he’ll lead the Crannogmen to take Moat Cailin off the Boltons like a knife to the back of the neck (lol), paving the way for the Vale Army to head North and change the calculus of Bastard Bowl

      Only 3 episodes in, so much Fantasticness and we’re only getting started!

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    35. CC,

      Hahahahaaa! Does that mean gay marriage is legal in Westeros? Will they let Loras out now? teehee!

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    36. Team stark,

      Omg, I so want you to be right. But if I remember correctly, Grey Wind was the largest, and ghost was the smallest. Meaning that could actually be Shaggy Dog. But I pray to the old gods and new, it’s not.

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    37. CC:
      Do you think Ramsay will send Jon poor Shaggydog’s head as poof he has Rickon? Maybe along with the pink letter.

      Who would deliver that? A raven?

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    38. Tatters,

      I wouldn’t say it’s dull; its just moving very slowly. Based on the preview for next weeks episode, I think we can expect the pace to pick up. Hopefully we get dynamic Dany back, more reminiscent of season 3.

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    39. Breanna Stark:
      Team stark,

      Omg, I so want you to be right. But if I remember correctly, Grey Wind was the largest, and ghost was the smallest. Meaning that could actually be Shaggy Dog. But I pray to the old gods and new, it’s not.

      I think they probably just didn’t make the things around it on the table small enough to emphasize how large it was. I doubt the show will go into anything that complex. But I’d love for this theory to be right!

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    40. Tatters,

      I’ve never liked it books or show. For me, book 1 and season 1, was the best for Dany’s story in my opinion. This year so far though it’s taking dullness to new levels. It’s obvious what’s coming and that will be exciting but getting there…miserable.

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    41. Flayed Potatoes,

      HBO isn’t going to show the Stark reunion in the preview. They have to make us doubt it is going to happen. That way, the reunion will have more of an impact.

      Riiight….

      😉

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    42. Poor Osha. No good deed goes unpunished on show version. She could have bailed on those kids at any time and headed south. Instead she takes on the roll of protector and guide, and older sister, and heads back north. And now she’s headed for a gruesome end, most likely. Really sucks. So damn dark now.

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    43. Basil,

      In Kings Landing, or maybe enjoying life with his annoying girl Lollys.
      We surely will see him this season though.

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    44. Last night Bloodraven said something along the lines of Bran having to learn more about the past before he could leave. So I’m assuming each vision he has (at least the ones that Bloodraven is with him on) are important to his mission. So the TOJ vision with the theoretical Jon Snow reveal is going to result in what exactly? Will Bran be headed to find Jon to tell him the news? If so to what end? In other words, Jon is already aware of the night’s king….so not sure what the news will do for him personally. Maybe Bran will use the info to rally the North and the rest of the kingdoms to Jon’s side in the battle for the dawn? I don’t know…just rambling here….

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    45. Did Pycelle fart with fear after seeing The Mountain? It might have just been the door squeaking as it closed but the timing was funny.

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    46. Redxgod,

      I thought last we saw of him he was ogling sand snake bewbs, recovering from being poisoned, and boarding a boat with Jaime and still among the living Myrcella. I’d have though we’d have a scene with him already. Hope @JonFookinSnow is right, and he wasn’t written off the show.

      I suspect the hand that grabs Pod from behind, in the Riverlands, belongs to Bronn.

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    47. Tori Targaryen

      Also worth noting that this new theme also has a harp playing gently in the background…. which a certain character was renowned for playing.

      Aha! Good ear, Tori.

        Quote  Reply

    48. Can we get a discussion started on #passgasgate? Who did it? Does it have a deeper meaning? I’m trying to wrap my mind around it…….

        Quote  Reply

    49. Very excited for one of my favorite characters return next episode: Petyr Baelish/Littlefinger. I started to miss his accent and scheming.

        Quote  Reply

    50. Basil:
      Redxgod,

      I thought last we saw of him he was ogling sand snake bewbs, recovering from being poisoned, and boarding a boat with Jaime and still among the living Myrcella. I’d have though we’d have a scene with him already. Hope @JonFookinSnowis right, and he wasn’t written off the show.

      Lol, saw him appear in an ad for a British TV show called “Ripper Street”

      Was all – ‘hey it’s Bronn”

      Good thing is that his hair and beard appears to be the same (same as LF actor in another show a couple of years back) which implies he’s under contract and probably acted out some scenes and we’ll likely see him soon when it is relevant

        Quote  Reply

    51. tuna5584,

      I think the scene from the trailers where the Night’s King grabs (a standing) Bran’s arm means that the longer Bran stays behind in the past the more it allows the NK to locate him. Which is why BR doesn’t want him to stay ‘under’ too long. At some point, like the disobedient teenager he is, he blows off BR, goes back alone, and lingers too long allowing the NK to find and make contact with him.

        Quote  Reply

    52. tuna5584,

      I thought it was deeply unfair for Jon to go through life not knowing who his real parents are. Bran may be the only person with access to that information. I can’t see Jon finding out the truth any other way.

      I don’t know if unfairness is the story’s motive for letting Jon know… maybe this knowledge will lead to something big.

        Quote  Reply

    53. JonFookinSnow:
      Jon Snow’s shaggy mantle,

      Maybe it was Mace Tyrell ?

      I am the Storm,

      Seriously, Pycelle did it, the camera was right on him when it happened. This is a far bigger development than seeing Olly hang or a possible shaggydog murder. This could be GoT’s Negan scene. Maybe there was a clue to who did it from the order of seating, or maybe next episode we’ll get Clegane’s PoV.

        Quote  Reply

    54. Flayed Potatoes:
      HBO isn’t going to show the Stark reunion in the preview. They have to make us doubt it is going to happen. That way, the reunion will have more of an impact.

      I haven’t been able to get online as much as I would have liked in the last few months… did I miss spoilery comments on a Stark reunion??? I hope so.. I mean I hope I missed the remarks and it’s going to happen.

        Quote  Reply

    55. I am the Storm:
      Can we get a discussion started on #passgasgate? Who did it? Does it have a deeper meaning? I’m trying to wrap my mind around it…….

      My guess is it was dealt by Pycelle, who keeping up the feeble old man act deliberately let out a weak back blast, but after leaving the chamber immediately released the Crack Kraken.

        Quote  Reply

    56. CatspawAssassin: My guess is it was dealt by Pycelle, who keeping up the feeble old man act deliberately let out a weak back blast, but after leaving the chamber immediately released The Crack Kraken.

        Quote  Reply

    57. Basil:
      tuna5584,

      I think the scene from the trailers where the Night’s King grabs (a standing) Bran’s arm means that the longer Bran stays behind in the past the more it allows the NK to locate him. Which is why BR doesn’t want him to stay ‘under’ too long. At some point, like the disobedient teenager he is, he blows off BR, goes back alone, and lingers too long allowing the NK to find and make contact with him.

      This sounds pretty accurate Basil…

        Quote  Reply

    58. I hate(d) Thorne. But it’s hard not to respect him. Up to the end, he’s a man who firmly stands up for his beliefs. He isn’t so different from Ned Stark, in his own way. Even though he’s a big jerk.

      Is Arya really “no one”? The magic water trick worked on her, which would seem to suggest on some deep level, she has passed the test. Yet Needle is still hidden, and she threw mean trainer girl by not giving her full list of names. One senses a girl has somehow managed to hold something back. But how? One cannot truly believe Arya Stark would ever manage to fully go away.

        Quote  Reply

    59. There’s been a bit of fuss around Neds “dishonourable” actions, but I don’t see what Neds actually done wrong. It was HR who stabbed AD in the neck after all, Not Ned. Ned simply finished him off so in actual fact he did kill/defeat him. Besides, in the books (at least) he is clearly saddened and haunted by the loss of AD and speaks of him with great respect. He also acknowledged HR saved his life so what’s the big deal?

      The more I see of Bran/BR the more I’m convinced Bran will try to alter the past to stop future events. Perhaps that’s why we will see the Mad Kings murder even.

      At the very least, I definitely believe he’ll be involved (or directly responsible) for the Wall falling, albeit accidentally.

      On another note, I’m not convinced that’s Shaggydogs head… It seemed too small to be a direwolfs head. Could this be an Umber double cross?

        Quote  Reply

    60. A bit better pacing this episode. Was some good stuff but also some disappointments. The Tower of Joy was great but I thought the ending was a bit anti-climactic (also a bit weird seeing as Dayne owned four guys yet conveniently forgot to keep his eyes open for an extra one). The stabbing him in the back bit was perhaps an interesting point though as it gives more credence to Jaime’s “by what right does the wolf judge the lion” thing and show that the ‘good guys’ aren’t above underhand tactics.
      The whole Umbers coming over to Ramsay’s side seems very messy. Not sure why they thought Roose dying was a reason when surely they’d see it as a chance to make a power play for their own house and not become subserivent to Ramsay. If Osha and Rickon have been brought back just to be killed off then that’s pretty poor. Already a bit pissed Shaggy is gone as pretty much an afterthought. Could hte Umbers/Rickon be part of a trap? I kind of hope so but again it would be being a bit fanciful.
      Things in King’s Landing are proving interesting again although Dany and Arya’s stories are getting very dull and stagnant. Mereen was ok but I felt Tyrion’s pain when he had to try and interact with the two dullest characters in the show (another reason they should have kept Selmy alive instead of Greyworm).
      Sam and Gilly on the boat was fine. Building for what’s to come so necessary but not thrilling.
      Jon leaving the Night’s Watch was inevitable I guess. I’m struggling to see how he hopes to fight the whitewalkers though. With the Umbers. Boltons and Karstarks teamed up to be beaten by a handful of wildings and maybe Night’s Watch (because how can the story be moved forward if not?) then I’m not sure how the remanents of that battle will be able to stop an unending army of the dead.
      Mus admit that this season has yet to catch fire yet. Seems to be full of shortcuts andis trying to end every other scene on a WTF moment which is beginnning to cheapen them. The sooner Bronn and The Hound turn back up the better. For the first time since watching the show I think , in this season, Game of Thrones has dropped from being an excellent show to a good show. Fingers crossed this changes by episode 10.

      Team stark,

      Shaggy was apparently one of the larger of the direwolves too.

        Quote  Reply

    61. J Star,

      Remember the scene from the trailer where Arya is jumping around like an assassin?
      She’s still in Braavos, looks like a chase.

        Quote  Reply

    62. So…….NOBODY is at all disappointed by that horrible rushed TofJ scene? If it’s going to be half assed and rushed then just don’t do it. At this point, that was pretty much the only thing I was still watching this dismal show for. The David’s are ruining this entire series. The TofJ scene was supposed to be epic, this was not. People are far too easily pleased

        Quote  Reply

    63. StannisGotScrewed,

      So what exactly did you expect? Revelation that Dawn was actually a lightsaber? Or maybe some generic epic Hans Zimmer score in the background? Or maybe Lyanna atop the tower dancing gangnam style?

        Quote  Reply

    64. StannisGotScrewed,

      I really like dual blade sword style. And it looked I saw Dawn just not pale milk blade but one sword had unusual pommel. Scene itself was good but it just comes out of nowhere without any build up. We get mentioned few events last season but that’s two versions of the story. Rhaegar being rapist vs kind guy.

      They should’ve started with Winterfell flashback, then showing Robert/Rhaegar and Lyanna. Tourney of Harrenhal how it all leads to TOJ. This seems rushed just to get it done. On one hand, I don’t mind that to get it confirmed but it lacks the epicness I thought D&D would deliver, because it’s a big deal. My friends were very confused about it.

        Quote  Reply

    65. StannisGotScrewed,

      Said before this season started they shouldn’t do it. It didn’t bear any relevance to the story being told (only really need Lyanna in the tower), showing it ruined it’s mystique and it was never going to live up to expectations. Also find it hard to believe that a guy who’s had the awareness to single-handedly beat 4 guys doesn’t notice one guy sneaking up behind him.

        Quote  Reply

    66. tkk,

      I’m not trolling just expected more. And who the hell are you to call anyone out just cuz they’re not drooling over this season. And me being a book purist doesn’t have much to do w it since they’re past the books. If its gonna be done it should’ve been done right. They have all these northmen come out of nowhere, the best knight in the kingdom gets stabbed in the back after singlehandedly fighting 4others, plenty. More wrong there. Just because I don’t agree with everyone doesn’t make me a troll. I guess everyone has to only comment on how great this show is??

        Quote  Reply

    67. StannisGotScrewed,

      I would have liked a couple more lines from the book dialogue, mentioning Jaime killing Aerys and seeing their reaction, as well as pointing out that the KG was guarding a tower in the middle of nowhere instead of protecting Prince Viserys and Queen Rhaella. I could not give two shits about the presumed quality of the fight or the lack of Dawn as it was described in the books. It worked fine for me. And for suspense, I think it was wise to tease what was in the tower without immediately showing it.

      Also, to make a 90’s WWF reference, Stannis screwed Stannis.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Phyllis: Rickon & Osha are the flayed bodies???? Speculation.

      I hope not, neither of them. I liked both characters. Osha was true to her word, and got her “little lord” where he needed to go. And Rickon was a sturdy, stubborn adorable little boy, wanting to protect Bran. Though he’s grown considerably since then. Don’t want any character I like to end up flayed and fried. Don’t give me that line about I haven’t been paying attention, I have too been paying attention, I just don’t want to listen to that. Lalalalalala
      In the meantime, nobody has said who that flayed body at the entry might be – they showed it twice. Was that the Maester? To shut him up about seeing Roose killed and not “poisoned” ?

        Quote  Reply

    69. Ah nice set up ep 🙂

      I do like me some Arya and Waifey scenes. It was rather interesting to watch Faye reacting to Arya’s list and noticing she wasn’t on it. Or at least Arya doesn’t say waif or anything.
      I absolutly loved the way Alliser went. A proud man who stands by his descisions and his loyalties. a good man in his own way.
      But one thing with the hanging. You hear the necks snap. But they still jerk about. If their necks snapped they would go limp immedeately.
      Then the toj. I liked it. I have also seen ppl ask where Ice was. Ned had it. It seemed to have been washed a bit too hot and shrank though. Same with Dawn which seemed to have undergone some interesting form of meiosis (or mitosis whatever didn’t pay to much attention in bio class) but one can see that it is Dawn (star) and Ice (hilt when Dayne knocks it out of Ned’s hand) I am not sure what Bran will do now that he knows that the people he watches can hear him. I kind of stand with br there. Let the past stay in the past
      Why Kevan wouldn’t have Cersei on the council is obvious. Jaime though has a place there as LC. We even see Barristan on the council while Robert is in charge. Unfortunately showKevan is so much weaker than bookKevan…
      Qyburn and kids.. ehem no thank you….

        Quote  Reply

    70. Thronetender: nobody has said who that flayed body at the entry might be – they showed it twice.

      I only saw it once when Umber arrived. He looked like a wildling.

      Also, no one has mentioned Arya sippin’ tea in front of the weirwood face at the HoBW.

        Quote  Reply

    71. Geralt of Rivia,

      Re Direwolf size

      This is mild book stuff but I’ll spoil tag it anyway.

      I found this where Ghost’s Appearance says, “At the outset, Ghost is the smallest of his pack, but he eventually grows to be larger than his litter mates.” The reference is aGoT Chapter 10 (Jon II). However, for the life of me I can’t find this in the chapter (it’s only 6 pages). Also, this is very early in the books so it’s possible Nym or Shaggy have grown to equal or greater size than Ghost in the wild (although Ghost too has been in the “wild” to a similar degree).

      Nymeria is later described as “a she-wolf of monstrous size” by a dying man Ser Dermot finds (AFFC Chapter 44 Jaime VII). Although, Dermot goes on to say, “A direwolf, to hear him tell it.” So maybe Nymeria is just monstrous for a regular wolf? I did find this direct quote.

      tl;dr I couldn’t find many refs. I mostly based my certainty on Nym and SD being in the wild and the ferocity/bloodthirstiness they are described with (whereas Ghost is more the silent hunter).

        Quote  Reply

    72. Here’s something that I’m not sure I understand.

      The show/Bram made a big deal over Dayne getting stabbed in the back. But I feel like we’ve seen lots of people get stabbed through the back in the midst of battle. How is this different? I mean, are knights supposed to just stand there and let their compadres die just because they aren’t standing in front of the person swinging the sword?

      Dayne drew his swords first, and this was clearly a battle. Unless I’m missing something, I thought it was a fair move.

      I thought Jamie stabbed the Mad King in the back like a sucker punch – not in the heat of a battle. That would not be a fair move.

      Thoughts? Insights?

        Quote  Reply

    73. Would you guys (book readers) answer a question for me?

      I knew that Howland Reed would stab Dayne in the back, and that was how Ned won the fight – I’m not sure how I knew this though. I haven’t read the books yet (waiting the series ends) but, I was sure I got it from a book reader, somewhere?

      However, reading through comments, etc. today, it seems as though book readers didn’t know it was coming either – is it some sort of fan fiction that happened to be true?

      Curious…

        Quote  Reply

    74. TheTouchofFrost: Said before this season started they shouldn’t do it. It didn’t bear any relevance to the story being told (only really need Lyanna in the tower),

      Really? I’m surprised to read that from you, Frost. From my perspective, the whole ToJ sequence is just as important as the dragons being born, the RW, and Tyrions escape from KL…among others. It’s an iconic and terribly misunderstood moment in the past (much like Jaime’s killing of the mad king). “Honorable” Ned harbored a great deceit and a great promise, was moments from being dead and was lucky to be alive. Like his “teachable moment” with the WW crier at the beginning of S1/AGoT, the truth was lost.

      This is the Song of Ice and Fire….the true beginning of which was at the ToJ. In our individual minds, we all have different mental teleplays of how the sequence should have played out. I personally wanted a bit more exposition and banter, but the entire sequence had to be visualized as part of this tale (especially after LF set it up last season with the Harrenhal tourney exposition). Ned anxiously reminisced about it at least 5 times in AGoT. And I absolutely respect them for dividing it into two major scenes. It is that important!

        Quote  Reply

    75. I hope Owen Teale gets a great curtain call. Alliser Thorne was a very believable thorn in Jon’s backside and while it may sound weird, was a good man. Definitely someone worthy of respect. And I believe even Jon knew that.

        Quote  Reply

    76. VegoDread,

      Not fan fiction, just a popular theory that Howland did something like that. Being a crannogman, he wasn’t a great sword fighter so it had to be something a small man could do against a great fighter like Dayne. The books don’t say what happened exactly, only that Howland saved Ned’s life.

        Quote  Reply

    77. I have a vague memory of pics/conjecture in the off season showing Jon with hair in a bun, a woman under an umbrella, and a cross. People said the body on the cross was too small to be an adult. Some saw a direwolf head in the logs at the base of the X.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Rygritte,

      I thought that the Weirwood Face might have some importance… friend I was watching with dismissed it pretty quickly though and never really discussed it. I kind of made the connection of the Many Faced God and there are many faces on the weirwood trees, which are sometimes referred to as Tree Gods… idk if there’s any connection, but seemed quite deliberate.

        Quote  Reply

    79. fyi, in case people were still speculating … the child actor Michael Nevin was in this episode, he’s playing one of Varys/Qyburn’s little birds.

        Quote  Reply

    80. Lord Stoneheart:
      Rygritte,

      I thought that the Weirwood Face might have some importance… friend I was watching with dismissed it pretty quickly though and never really discussed it. I kind of made the connection of the Many Faced God and there are many faces on the weirwood trees, which are sometimes referred to as Tree Gods… idk if there’s any connection, but seemed quite deliberate.

      My running pet theory is that the Faceless Men profess to be faceless but are truly returned to themselves after training. I think Arya was purposefully positioned in front of the old gods. It is through preserving herself in the midst of all this that she’ll draw the most strength.

        Quote  Reply

    81. msd:
      fyi, in case people were still speculating … the child actor Michael Nevin was in this episode, he’s playing one of Varys/Qyburn’s little birds.

      If that’s true, then I think he is next scheduled to appear in one of Sapochnik’s episodes? Would that mean

      Kevan and Pycelle do not die until the finale?

        Quote  Reply

    82. What’s intriguing me is what happens AFTER the TOJ reveal. So Jon’s parentage is revealed but the only person who knows now is Bran…and Howland Reed.

      Jon doesn’t know and even if and when somehow Bran tells him, there’s no proof of it. So how would it influence Jon and his decisions?

      It occurred to me that it’s unlikely that Lyanna would have given birth without having people with her to assist the delivery. Perhaps a Maester or a Septa or someone else was there. Someone who can also verify Jon’s birthright. Unless a number of people can support the reveal, what difference can it make to the story? None that I can see.

      It’s just that everyone talks about R+L=J, but then what?

        Quote  Reply

    83. VegoDread:
      Would you guys (book readers) answer a question for me?

      I knew that Howland Reed would stab Dayne in the back, and that was how Ned won the fight – I’m not sure how I knew this though. I haven’t read the books yet (waiting the series ends) but, I was sure I got it from a book reader, somewhere?

      However, reading through comments, etc. today, it seems as though book readers didn’t know it was coming either – is it some sort of fan fiction that happened to be true?

      Curious…

      It’s not clear in the books, Ned references that he basically wouldn’t have survived if it wasn’t for Howland Reed…but doesn’t go into details.

      It’s clear that neither Howland or Ned would have survived a straight up fight with Arthur Dayne, so in all likelihood it went down just as shown in the show (Crannogmen are well known for sneaky and underhanded tactics when fighting.)

      In all likelihood D&D got this from George and will be seen in the future either on a Howland Reed POV chapter or a Bran POV chapter, if George ever publishes the supposedly upcoming novels.

        Quote  Reply

    84. Jon Snow’s shaggy mantle:
      Did Pycelle fart with fear after seeing The Mountain? It might have just been the door squeaking as it closed but the timing was funny.

      i always watch the show with closed captioning and yes it did say ‘farts’. it also says ‘squelching’ when someone gets stabbed.

        Quote  Reply

    85. Halfman,

      Jon almost definitely will find out. Bran might be the one to tell him, or to instigate it. Howland Reed is another possibility: the show and book both have hung him on the wall rather prominently. Of course, given thst Crannogmen seem more attuned to nature tan others, perhaps Howland will hear a tree tell him that it is time to let Jon know: and thus both scenarios will be correct.

        Quote  Reply

    86. TheTouchofFrost,
      It bears a huge relevance to the story. Bran has just gotten a first taste of the difference between history and story. I will bet that much of what BR shows him from the past is going to be like this. And this is going to be big come crunch time.

      Moreover, this will almost certainlybe big for Jon. His damned-if-you-do-or-don’t closure will probably be heavily influenced not just by the compromises he, himself, had to make along the way: but also by the compromises Ned had to make (and subsequently had to live with) in order to save Jon.

        Quote  Reply

    87. Hodors Bastard,

      It also represents another “you cannot have it both ways” conflict for Ned. He owes his life to Howland Reed. It would be dishonorable to reveal how Reed saved him because of that. But it also is dishonorable to let a lie stand. So, you cannot choose an honorablecourseof action, only the least dishonorable.

      In a “epic” fairy tale, the two honorable warriors would have defeated the evil knight who abetted kidnapping in fair duel. But the knight was not evil and not abetting a kidnapping, and the “good guys” won in a brawl, not a duel.

      But this is one of GRRM’s recurring themes: anything that people recount as “epic” has been editted, and sometimes severely. Adapting a novel into a script might be like turning a shark into a dinosaur, but turning history into story is like creating life from a stone.

        Quote  Reply

    88. Wimsey:
      Halfman,

      Jon almost definitely will find out.Bran might be the one to tell him, or to instigate it.Howland Reed is another possibility: the show and book both have hung him on the wall rather prominently.Of course, given thst Crannogmen seem more attuned to nature tan others, perhaps Howland will hear a tree tell him that it is time to let Jon know: and thus both scenarios will be correct.

      I think that sounds very feasible but once armed with the knowledge, up until now he has never seemed the sort who is interested in power or glory and would be unlikely to have any inclination to lay a claim to the iron throne. The immediate future revolves around the Starks and taking back Winterfell and then his focus is only on the war that’s to come from the white walkers.

      Perhaps as events unfold and Westeros comes to realise that they must unite against the threat from The Others, Jon’s heritage will be the key somehow. If only it wasn’t going to take at least two years to know how it all pans out.

        Quote  Reply

    89. HelloThere:
      Dee,

      I don’t think I’d be able to handle myself if Arya and Sansa ever meet up again….
      Something about those Stark sisters represent the emotional core of the series

      The Mophie reunion we all want.

        Quote  Reply

    90. At the TOJ
      Ned says, where is my sister,,,, this mirrors the Jamie and Ned fight in season one, where Jamie asks, where is my brother. Also, Ned, like Dayne is disabled from behind.

      Error?
      Dayne sticks his sword is the ground in front of himself. Then when it “begins/ends” Dayne draws both his swords…….huh?

      Oh,, and I think Gilly is pregnant. Sam is not the father of her current child, though she refers to Sam as the father of her son. If she is pregnant then that makes Sam an
      Oathbreaker (ep. title)……

        Quote  Reply

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