![20160511_ep604_Publicity_Still_1500166909[1]](http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/20160511_ep604_Publicity_Still_15001669091.jpg)
Stark family reunions! Greyjoy family reunions! Happy happy burning time for Khaleesi! If you’ve watched this week’s Game of Thrones, then check out some of the interviews and videos that dissect “Book of the Stranger.”
Entertainment Weekly chatted with Emilia Clarke about her flaming moment of glory.
It’s so exciting, very tingly-making. Every season I get at least one spine-chilling moment. I just stand up and I go, ‘I’m hearing what you’re all saying, but funny thing, I’m going to kill you all. I forgot that I have an ace in my back pocket and now I win.
Clarke discusses getting the Dothraki back on her side and how Daenerys now feels indestructible. She also brings up the issue of nudity
Taking off my clothes is not the easiest thing, but with the magic of the effects, I don’t have to do a season 1 and go on a cliff and do it. I’m in control of it….I’d like to remind people the last time I took my clothes off was season 3. That was awhile ago. It’s now season 6. But this is all me, all proud, all strong. I’m just feeling genuinely happy I said ‘Yes.’ That ain’t no body double!
D.B. Weiss and David Benioff also spoke about the scene, with Weiss saying:
You know from the first season that, as you say, it’s her ‘superpower,’ but this is not really that type of story. It’s almost like the revelation she had when Jorah and Daario come to the rescue. She’s like, ‘Wait, I can do something none of these people can do and now that these two people can help me, I can use that to my advantage.’ It’s a very simple solution, a plan where you can use three people to take out dozens in a very dramatic way by just lighting things on fire and standing there.
Benioff agreed:
Emilia absolutely crushed it. It’s one of those weird scenes because it was half shot in Spain, half in Belfast. But largely due to her performance, it works brilliantly.
You can read the whole thing here.
Sophie Turner also spoke to the magazine about that wonderful Stark reunion, calling it one of favourite scenes to shoot in the series and the plot element she was most excited for in Season 6.
It’s such an emotional moment. She finally made it to Castle Black. And there’s this look where they’re just studying each other’s faces, with no expression. Then there’s this long embrace. It’s just awesome.
She also talks about her relationship to Jon and Davos.
People can kind of assume that Sansa’s very much like her mother and her mother wasn’t very fond of Jon. But Sansa is also different from her mother so she tries her best. She’s been through so much. She knows Jon is her older brother and Davos is older and wiser, but she’s probably been through more than both of them. She’s not just going to go along with other people’s decisions.”
You can read the rest here.
HBO have released their usual bevy of post-episode videos. In this week’s “Inside the Episode” David Benioff and D.B. Weiss discuss Jon and Sansa’s emotional family reunion, Tyrion’s slavery negotiations and Daenerys’ reclamation of power.
Natalie Dormer and Finn Jones talk about staying strong during their confinement by the Faith Militant.
Finally Emilia Clarke, Iain Glen and Michiel Huisman discuss how Daenerys regained her confidence to burn down the Dosh Khaleen, and Jorah and Daario’s belief in their Khaleesi.
Hodor
I enjoy that they accurately brought up the Abraham Lincoln analogy. I don’t know if outside the US know that much about the American Civil War. As Benioff pointed out he’s an American and a lot of people here don’t even know a lot of the fine details they try to teach in school.
Joe Naufahu interview
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-khal-moro-dies-894418
Did anyone notice the costumes Finn and Natalie were wearing during the interviews?. A really beautiful demure gown for Marg and a haircut for Loras who keeps his prison clothes…
hmmm Marg being careful and Loras joining the sparrows (Not the Faith Militant)
Next week!What is hype may never die.I am the hype god.I am the hype brother,the first hype and the last.And you’re in my way.
How about they turned their attention towards the Greyjoys. I don’t care whether people like the Greyjoys or not. We have some of the finest acting going on and I want to hear the actors or the showrunners TALK about it for crying out loud.
I literally can’t fathom how little people talk about it. I’m turning into a petulant toddler about this, I know.
Ser Gerold Dayne,
dare I dream of
Dany has lit a fire for life, and now a fire for death. What will be the fire for love?
I would be surprised if they would not talk about it next week because of the Kingsmoot. I am looking forward to some more of the Greyjoys.
Having Euron introduced now must mean something. I am not a book reader, so I don’t know.
I was thinking something among the same lines, like they’ll fake a conversion
No ToJ next episode because Bran has the NK/WW vision.
I think next week with the Kingsmoot they can’t avoid it.
So no Tarly’s next episode?
Bummed, but just a little bit. From the preview it looks like an ‘interesting ‘ vision next Sunday.. Bran better not get lost in that one.
I imagine it’ll get a lot of discussion next week
There’s a lot of scenes getting the attention but the Yarasha/Theon reunion was brilliantly acted
Really get the sense of a no nonsense toughened Iron Born lady with no time for snivelling on the one hand and a wreck of a man on the other
And they way Theon breaks out of humiliation once he realises his parts were sent to Balon and Yara was great acting by Alfie
I really liked this episode. I’m a glass half full kind of guy, actually, and so long as nothing is “bad”, I don’t care if we don’t have a Hardhome-scale battle or Jon resurrection every episode.
Like, I don’t walk in going “I hope we get a huge battle in this episode” I walk in going “I hope we don’t get another Dorne scene in this”.
Even Osha’s death didn’t bother me significantly – I mean, she was a minor character in the books and already greatly expanded after Season 1 due to strength of the actor. So if her death was an “invention” of the TV series…well by that logic so was Olly’s or Ros’s. It flowed logically for the episode itself (Theon would have confessed under torture how the Stark boys got away).
NOR do I think this undermines the “Umbers wanted to trick Ramsay” theory (Osha came close to *killing* Ramsay).
Overall I think reshuffling the Pink Letter/Mutiny at Castle Black was again a mistake, but at least flowed narratively/pacing wise for this episode (compared to say, Dorne, which doesn’t even flow well as a condensation). But that’s not a matter for this specific episode.
Ghosts Lunch,
I hadn’t seen the preview but now that I have, yes, they will have to address the Greyjoys which is good. I hope.
Yeah, I think Alfie is acting his little kraken a** off. 🙂 And Gemma was very good, as well.
ArrySnow,
Yes, Natalie’s outfit is kind a spoiler.
Huge spoilers on the Staying Strong video.
Interesting for Weiss and Beniof to say Sansa and Jon share the deep emotional bond. This is their first scene in the series and in the books she was looking at him like on a bastard. Not entirely like cat hating him but still not eally fond of him either.Llater admitted she would like to see him. Jon and Arya on the other hand they do have a strong bond, strongest among them all. If they meant it like a family bond in general and not among Stark siblings, then yes.
One more thing. Sansa and Jon could clash over different ideas and that would be interesting. Which is why Sansa might be willing to listen to Littlefiger against Jon’s and Davos’ council. Playing her game. Queen in the North at the end of the season.
Hiccup Targaryen,
I don’t think it works like this but I assume you mean Jon. Don’t know how that would work.
Agree, I just love Alfie.
An amazing episode from start to finish.
I could watch the Jon and Sansa reunion on a loop and it would take awhile to get sick of it. Sophie and Kit truly nailed the reunion and their conversations afterwards.
I think the Castle Black scenes in this episode might be the best in that setting in the whole series, even the battle scenes in Watchers on the Wall. Jonsa reunion and Pink Letter being the highlight, but the little moments too are just spot on. Brienne’s confrontation with the remnants of Team Stannis, Edd’s reminder to Jon that what they saw at Hardhome didn’t just go away when he died, and of course, the Tormund and Brienne interactions.
I have yet to see a complaint about the Daenerys scenes that hold any water. Whether she is fireproof in the books is not only unclear, it’s irrelevant. In this medium, she is fireproof and has been since her very first scene in Pentos with Viserys. To win over the Dothraki, she needed to save herself, exert her own strength. She used her own cunning and ability to do this. It was something we haven’t seen from her in a long time, and now that we have it seems a lot of folks would rather have seen…what? I get that Dany is a divisive character. Some people love her and others think she is the worst character in this whole tale. But she did exactly what she needed to do in this situation: save herself, and in so doing, win over an entire people.
Fantastic acting between Natalie and Finn last night.
That part where Sansa throws herself into Jon’s arms. Even in the short clip makes me tear up!
Isn’t LF at CB next week?
I was thrilled to see the ending of this episode! I didn’t expect Dany to burn down the Dosh Kaleen with all the Khals inside, but when she walked out of there & everyone bowed to her, I squealed with delight! Girl Power Extraordinaire!
Tycho Nestoris,
I would like it but many times they’ve cut elements like this so I can see it going either way.I just hope it’s a good scene.Iron Islands scenes always had great acting,cinematography and music.
ArrySnow,
Her hair is really simple too. Can’t wait to see what it all means!
Jack Bauer 24,
Chances are that he DOES see ToJ, but it then transitions into the NK vision because he’s staying too long. Hence Meera trying to wake him up and all.
dragonmcmx,
ToJ might be better fitting for Blood of my Blood. Hodor, Winterfell might be in the next episode.
Stargaryen,
I think at this point Loras is already broken. The Broken Man is the title of ep. 7… maybe it has something to do with him as well… I think Margeary will fake being all mild and demure while Loras will possibly become a true convert… I wouldn’t like, but I think it’s probably what will happen.
Considering all of Dany’s prophecies came in threes and love was the last one in each of them, I’m guessing they are somehow one and the same.
I’m also on the R+L=D camp (all of Dany’s HotU visions can not be about Jon, they are about her) so I believe the love has something to do with her newly discovered family relations.
Enjoyed the episode, but they missed a major Bad assed moment. How BA it would have been if, instead of Danny tipping over the oil filled torches, she had said something like “You have been my prisoners all along” (kind of indicating she had been playing along all this time), closed her eyes and summoned Drogon (she seems to have some mental connection with him), and it was Drogon that torched the hut.
Can’t you just see Dany emerging from the fire, unburnt, with Drogon in the background. That would have been something to bow down to!
Geralt of Rivia,
Another Jon Snow Resurrection
Something about what D or D (dunno which one’s which) said about Dany’s walking out of fire that I posted in another (now redundant) comment section earlier:
Parallels have already been drawn between Jon & Dany – not least how they each have their respective hordes of wild savages on their sides, one, the Northener, has snowy cold wildlings, the other, a Targaryen, has desert bedouin dothraki….
Now….
In the Inside the Episode D&D mentioned how this S6E4 rebirth was obviously supposed to mirror her first walking out of fire (S1E10) but witnessed on a muuuuuch bigger scale…cos “only a score of people saw her” first time.
That first one wasn’t witnessed by the rest of the Dothrakis, so after she went back to Dothraki-land (where we saw her start) she was in deep trouble for dishonouring her duty & tradition – this 2nd rebirth on mass scale was needed for their mass support (which she needed for her mission of conquering Westeros)
…AND D&D also also drew a parallel between the other rebirth this season, Jon’s.
So does anyone think that could mean Jon’s gonna have another sorta larger scale rebirth in the future?
Only a score of people saw him resurrected after seeing him dead the first time (like Dany)…so now that he’s back in the North, away from the Wall, (were we saw him start), the rest of the Northeners are gonna be cross he’s dishonoured his NW oath & tradition, so they’ll hate him*, much less follow him (like Dany S6 beginning), so to get them to follow him (which he needs for his mission of defeating WW & protecting family), there’s gotta be another similar resurrection, on a mass scale…to get them to admire him…
Ice –– Fire
Jon (Stark) –– Daenerys Targaryen
Direwolf –– Dragonsss
Wildling savages following him —– Dothraki savages following her
Bound by NW oath –– Bound by DK tradition
Just broke it, gonna be in trouble* –— Broke it, was in deep trouble (till now)
Resurrected — Rebirth from flames
witnessed by few friends, now admirers —- in front of few loyalists, now admirers
(Davos, Mel, Tormund, few wildlings, Edd) (Jorah, those dothraki bloodriders,)
?? another resurrection for Jon?? –— S6E4 rebirth nullifies trouble she was in!!
* Remember it was the first thing the show introduced in S1E1, Ned chopping a NW deserters head off
(Of course Dany’s second one was without dragons; maybe Jon’s second one will be without magic. And of course I’m not saying he’ll be killed and resurrected again, could be any sortve symbolic rebirth that suites him and his storyline)
Sean C.,
OK we might disagree on a lot of things, a lot. But I have to say it’s nice to see you joking a bit
Behind the scenes of episode 3 and 4:
One intresting thing ive noticed.
We know from the leaked pics Jon wears Brown-green armor in Bastard Bowl, but in the TV show with color corrections that green turns into blue.
MakeThemBurn,
I wonder if that is why they setup Ned as not as “honorable” a guy as he was thought to be… and now they will reveal that he DID actually cheat on Cat and had Jon as a bastard…
PREDICTIONS!
Sansa sends Brienne and Pod to Riverrun to rescue/recruit Tullys
Sansa sends Littlefinger to the Twins to let Walder Frey know that the Boltons have betrayed him and offering a chance to forget the Red Wedding in exchange for help.
Davos and maybe Jon goes to Bear Island and Deepwood Motte to recruit
Once Marge is rescued, Qyburn, either working with Varys or getting played by Varys, tells Jaime and Cersei that Tyrion has been spotted in Riverrun, so Jaime goes to Riverrun with Bronn.
Meanwhile, Walder Frey, fed up with the Blackfish, hires a Faceless Assassin to kill him. That’s Arya’s first job… A girl does not remain a girl.
Brienne and Pod stumble across Septon Swearingen and realize the Hound is still alive. They are there when he gets the summons to report to King’s Landing for a trial by combat. Brienne wishes him luck in the wars to come…
Meanwhile, in Episode 9, the “Previously On” features quick cut scenes of all the Dire Wolves – Sansa walking with Lady, and then Lady dying; Grey Wind being shot; Shaggy’s head; Summer rescuing Bran; Arya throwing rocks at Nymeria, and then Ghost.
Just when the Battle of Winterfell is raging… and Tormund has been captured and flayed and Pod is dead and Brienne is apopletic with rage, and Davos dies a heroic death, and Littlefinger has fled and Sansa debates killing herself and Jon is wounded… a howl is heard, and Ghost, Summer, the not-dead Shaggy, and a wolf pack led by Nymeria come and turn the tide.
Ramsay escapes for a bit and stumbles into the woods, only to realize Sansa, Jon and Brienne are behind him with the wolves. He turns to run again and cries out in fear. The ghost of a beautiful, gentle dire wolf bares her teeth and a figure in a grey hood speaks only in a whisper…
He turns and runs again, unthinkingly right into Brienne’s sword. The grey hooded figured approaches the group and speaks in a satanic rasp.
“Your honor is intact, Brienne of Tarth
“You have done well, Sansa.
“Forgive me, Jon Snow. No, Forgive me, Jon Stark.
Or something like that… 🙂
And she vanishes and Lady disappears.
MakeThemBurn,
You do realize that R+L=D is impossible, right? Dany got the name Stormborn because she was born during a great storm on Dragonstone. There were people present for her birth, including her brother Viserys and the man who sort of raised her, Ser Willam Darry. There is a less than zero chance that Dany is the daughter of Rhaegar and Lyanna.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I’m a Rhaegar + Lyanna = Davos truther myself.
MakeThemBurn,
You keep talking about R+L=D but I haven’t seen any clues in the show pointing to it or did you? If you can be so kind to share these clues with us.
Jack Bauer 24,
It should be Castle Black (both of them are currently at this place) and Brienne is supposed to go on the mission, to maybe find Arya? Jon needs to act and move South to convince people to fight for him. But where does this leaves Sansa? With Littlefinger again?
Dutch Maester,
Excellent! I was hoping that video would wind up on YouTube sooner rather than later.
Great insights, particularly that the cinematic inspiration behind the Tower of Joy sequence was Once Upon a Time in the West (and for those of you who care, they confirm that one of the two swords Arthur Dayne was wielding is indeed Dawn). The extensive production process that went into setting up the burning the Temple of the Dosh Khaleen is fascinating as well.
The D stands for Darkstar.
No, you ARE the R + L = D camp. I have not encountered a single other person who believes this.
Doesn’t Sansa go with Jon? There’s a clip of her and Davos gathering Northern support.
Yes, I’ve been told that a million times. There are just TONS of clues pointing to a different direction and I’m having huge issues in the way people are interpreting the HotU visions. Everyone is taking them from Dany’s chapter and linking them to Jon Snow. Most of her visions are about the Starks for no reason and Rhaegar and Lyanna is thrown into the mix. Why? Why would Dany have all these visions of Starks? Why would Robb Stark look for Dany in mute appeal? Why would Rhaegar look directly at her when talking about a third child that must be born? Why would Dany smell sweet blue roses?
As for Dany being Dany. It’s already been established that Dany has been lied to about her past. She’s constantly reflecting her past (red door/lemon tree), her theme line is “when I look back, I’m lost”, she’s told constantly that “to go forward, you must go back”. And Rhaegar is always on her mind. (She has only thought of Mad King when it served a plot point in book 5 and she has not shed a single thought for the woman who is supposed to be her mother. Lyanna, however, she has thought about several times). It’s so obvious that R+L=D and the only reason people fail to see that is because the author is waving Jon in people’s eyes. I have not seen a single person who believe in R+L=J managing to explain the mystery in Dany’s past or why Dany’s visions in the HotU would be all about Jon.
As for Darry and Viserys, they are both conveniently dead. I strongly believe that Rhaegar was Azor Ahai and he tried to fulfill some prophecy by giving birth to three children named after the Targaryens who conquered Westeros. That is where “three heads has the dragon” refers to. Not to three dragon riders. We know he had Aegon and Rhaenys but what many fail to see is that the third place belongs to a girl named Visenya. That girl is who we know as Daenerys. That is what the House of the Undying is all about. That is the reason the theme of three is so strong in her story. Because she represents the three children of Rhaegar’s prophecy after the other two were killed.
Once this is established, everything falls into place. Remember those shadows Dany saw in the tents when Mirri Maz Duur was doing her magic and said that the dead will come dancing? The wolf and the man in flames? That was Lyanna and Azor Ahai Rhaegar. Remember when Danny saw Rhaegar in her dreams? He was in flames. Rhaegar was Azor Ahai, Lyanna was Nissa Nissa and Dany is the Lightbringer.
Jack Bauer 24,
Walder Frey gets involved somehow. That’s a nice little job for Littlefinger. The trip from Castle Black to the Twins is no problem for him. Chief O’Brien just has to finish his transporter diagnostic.
Check Preston Jacobs Tower of Joy on youtube. Many people think Dany is in that tower,
MakeThemBurn,
So, Lyanna makes Ned promise to take Dany to Dragonstone? To go through the last of the enemy lines, keep from being found by Stannis and his army, and get on a ship to take this kid to the Targaryen loyalists?
And why the hell is he such a putz about Jon, then? Instead of telling Catelyn, “He is my blood!” why doesn’t he just say, “Yeah, I got lonely and drunk. I was with Robert. But I’m not leaving this kid in Flea Bottom” or “That is Ashara Dayne’s son. In honor of his uncle Arthur, I’m not abandoning him.”
(To be fair, even if R+L = J, it is kind of amazing that Ned didn’t just tell Catelyn one night… “Can you cut this kid some slack?” and told her the story. It’s not like she was going to run to the Baratheons and tell)
I’ve made an observation going back to the previous episode pertaining to the TOJ scene. Sorry it’s on the episode 4 thread, but I only noticed it today.
Has anyone else caught the little head cocking, and eye rolling to the far, far right….done by Arthur Dayne at Oswell Whent’s comment of “if we had been, your friend the usurper would lie beneath the ground.”
As the line is delivered, Dayne makes this face and cocks his head and tries to look as far toward Whent as possible, with him being behind him. To me, this look is familiar…I’ve made it myself as I suspect many of you have. It’s a look that says “Shut the fuck up.”
This show wastes no dialogue, and certainly no character blocking within a scene. So, I would love to hear if anyone has an opinion. Why did he do this? What was he aiming to do, and if it was involuntary, why did the comment cause him to react in such a manner as if to say “shhh…” but with more gusto?
Thanks
I see some talk about lack of interest in the Greyjoys but that is just because there were many great things to talk about this week. Stark reunion, Dany accumulating more Dothraki horselords(not just the old and sick ones like when Khal Drogo died. These ones should actually do something), Uniting the Lannisters and Tyrells for a common cause…
The thought I had when Theon was arriving at the II was how different it was from the last time he arrived there to try and recruit his father to aide Robb Stark in the war. He was a young, cocky(pardon the pun) womanizer who slept with the boat captain’s daughter only to tell her piss off when they reached land. Then he proceeded to feel up his sister. Haha classic Theon Greyjoy. Now he is a shell. Beaten and broken into a thousand pieces.
This season has been very satisfying so far, to say the least. The dynamic acting has shown the younger actors range and growth since the series started.
MakeThemBurn,
Nobody says that every vision in the HOTU was about Jon and the Starks. In fact, out of like 15-20 visions, only 2 or 3 involved Jon and the Starks. The vision of the blue rose growing from the wall of ice. The Vision of Robb at the Red Wedding. And perhaps the Rhaegar vision. Though the ‘Dragon has 3 heads. There must be one more’ vision involves both Dany and Jon. Rhaegar thought both Aegon and Rhaenys would be 2 of the heads, and as we know, they died(Young Griff is a fake). So this was a case of Rhaegar being right about the dragon having three heads, but wrong about who they would be.
We will likely find out what happened in the tower in a few weeks, so we will see if it is even more convoluted and Ned somehow sent his sister’s daughter away to live a life poor and on the run. And somehow Viserys was convinced that Dany was his sister and his pregnant mother died giving birth to her. So that brings up the question of what happened to Rhaella’s baby? Oh Gods, why am I discussing something that has no chance of happening? LOL.
Dutch Maester,
Thank you very much for this.
Visenya/Daenerys was never in dragonstone. That is where the red door and lemon tree refer to. She was in Dorne. A place that is conveniently close to the Tower of Joy and written late into the story for a purpose. How did it all happen? I don’t know. We haven’t been told. But we will be. Perhaps this very season. I’m guessing Varys knows. He has to.
Torienne!
plop_plop,
I think that is more to let Bran know that the world is not as clear as he thinks it is.
Honor is a funny thing. Let’s say R+L =J and R+L was consensual and she ran off with him.
So, Rhaegar and Lyanna’s romantic folly did the following:
1) Dishonored the Baratheons
2) Dishonored the Starks
3) Dishonored the Martells
4) Caused the deaths of countless, including her father and oldest brother; his father, wife, children and best friend
And, if on her deathbed, Lyanna confesses all this to Ned, who realizes that he participated in a war started to “rescue” a woman who simply ran away, what is left of his honor at that point?
Jack Bauer 24,
So the secret Bran learns is not R+L but something else, probably connected to the WW. Hmmmm…..
Why Davos and Mel weren´t at the Pink Letter dinner party?
MakeThemBurn,
But wasn’t Viserys old enough to realize where the hell he was? Or did he lie to Dany? And did the Targaryen loyalists lie to say that Rhaella and the kids were on Dragonstone? Because Robert was pissed at Stannis for letting them escape.
And I can buy Ned lying to Robert about it (he has for Jon in the other theory) but then to simply “resign” when Robert sends assassins after his niece? To do nothing when his niece is advised by Jorah Mormont, a man Ned considers beneath contempt?
No, I do not buy it. The pieces fall apart fairly quickly.
I know they don’t have the screen time for it but a Tormund-Brienne-Pod road trip would be awesome. More likely, they’ll be separated next week.
Ravyn,
My pick: Tormund dies and Brienne goes She-Hulk.
I hope that jon will find a purpose this season. He seems a little bit lost atm.
Its kind of obvious that Sansa will become queen of the north, thats why they made her suffer so much. I just hope that Jon also gets something good from that, its like he always has to lead wars and never gets something from it:(
Making the 8,
Not a Greyjoy fan but I thought the Yara-Theon scene was excellent. Great acting from both.
Demon Monkey,
Their hug is my top favorite moment of the entire show, the beauty of it is simply indescribable.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Could been the very different cameras and lighting. I wouldn’t put money on Jon having a very big wardrobe.
But whats even the point of the ned flashbacks then. Dany being what you want her to be would be just really anticlimatic.
MakeThemBurn,
Viserys was 7 years old when Dany was born. Old enough to tell the difference between Dragonstone and Dorne. Also old enough to bare witness to his mother’s death and a baby Daenerys that resulted from it. Don’t you see how much more convoluted this is? Ned even mentions in the TOJ dialogue that Ser Willam Darry fled to Dragonstone with Prince Viserys and Queen Rhaella. You got sucked in to Preston Jacobs’ tinfoil. He puts a lot of effort into his theories, but they are all mostly BS.
I thought margaery’s fancy dress and simple hair could be a funeral outfit like myrcella’s golden dress….maybe something goes down at the standoff?
The High Sparrow must have told Tommen about Marg’s walk of atonement knowing he would tell Cersei surely? I thought it was a trap for sure
Making the 8,
very true
That’s because the Greyjoys get spank around left and right on both the books and the show.
That’s what they are, punching bags to the rest. Even before the start of the story you know they got smacked around rebelling to the crown. They got smacked around before and they will get smacked around in the future.
I do like Asha/Yara tho.
MakeThemBurn,
Dany was only conceived in the last month of Robert’s Rebellion. The Tower of Joy and Jon’s (it is Jon, anything else would be ridiculous) wasn’t that long after the sacking of King’s Landing. The assault on Dragonstone was way after that as Stannis led the assault and during the sacking of King’s Landing he was still held up at Storm’s End.
On the episode, was pretty meh. The Mereen stuff with Tyrion is interesting and everything else is steady if not spectacular. Things in the north seem to be coming together a bit too quickly and I worry about Rickon now with Shaggy and Osha seemingly only bought back into the story to be used as a cheap death to try and add shock value.
Dany’s scene was flat out ridiculous. Tipping over a few torches is enough to kill a whole host of Khal’s who are supposedly some of the toughest folks around?! Just silly. I sense it was an attempt at recreating the dragon birth at the end of the first season which was the last time anyone really cared about her story. I’m finding it increasingly harder to empathise with Dany. She appears to have learnt nothing from Slavers Bay as has walked into another culture and attempted to force change on it. Not sure how she thinks the people of Westeros are going to respond to her arriving with a khalisar of barbarian rapists. Think Tyrion may need to have a word in her eear about politics again.
Can’t shake the feeling this season feels so much shallower than previous ones. Too many coincidences to shoe horn characters together and trying to create a OMG moment at teh end of every scene.
I find it hard to believe that D&D would have guessed correctly when George asked them who Jon’s parents are if it was anything but the most common theory.
I don’t know that the ages/timelines extrapolated from the books line up too well. Working with what is stated name day and corresponding events I believe it’s been determined Daenerys had to have been born in early 284 AC. Jon was born 283. Tower of Joy was 283. Brandon Stark died 282…
Who knows, maybe we’re all in for a surprise.
I wanted to wait to comment on the show as a whole until today. Watched the show twice yesterday and feel that this could possibly be one of the best shows this year to date. Im partial in the rez of JS but other then that the shows (IMHO) have been extraordinary.
First off the whole Sansa/Jon reunion was just amazing. The perfect reaction between them was so realistic that I was crying over the palpable emotions. Jon physically steps back when he realizes its Sansa… I thought was just so great. Like he was seeing a ghost and he can’t believe she is really there.
Secondly I loved the interaction between Yara/Theon. Just again so believable. Her disdain and disgust for his previous behavior was right on point, and his contrite and humble apology was perfect. Im hoping he gets some redemption after all he’s been through. I think he truly feels bad for what he did to and is going to turn his life around helping Yara.
Im still not really feeling Mureen yet but it was a big improvement over last episode. Peter Dinklage once again pulled it through and Im wondering why Varys hasn’t had much dialogue as of yet? Mostly prop material it seems.
Lastly I LOVED Dany’s exhibit of total destruction towards the Dothraki Khals.. can we please now have her leave and go to Westeros? Im just ready for this party to get started.. I realize she can’t go till end of this season or beginning of next but Im so ready to see how her and Jon are going to interact and what their roles in the final war will be.
Overall I was thrilled with the episode and am really looking forward to next week. The days drag after Sunday. ;( Enjoying reading everyones input and seeing where you all stand on this season thus far. Kinda surprised by some of the dissenting voices on this season as I feel it’s way better so far than last season overall.
I almost forgot about Torment’s love reaction to Brienne. It was by far the funniest moment so far in this season (I thought) and really makes me want to see how Brienne is going to react to that sort of flirtatious behavior. This will be the first time someone has approached her in a sexual way and Im really excited to see how she is going to deal with it. She is prob one of my fav non POV characters.
Im anxiously waiting to see if they will bring the Hound back this year or make us wait till next season (I certainly hope not) and Gendry.. please oh please bring him back and soon. Ok those are my only requests. Bring it on D&D.
TheTouchofFrost,
While I don’t agree Dany’s scene was ridiculous (I know, I disagree with you on something???…shocking 😉 ), I will say it didn’t land for me quite the way it did for others. However, the main reason I’m making this post is to say… is so good to see you post. I had just mentioned elsewhere (either yesterday or the day before) I hadn’t seen you since the season started…and now here you are. Yay.
As far as Dany winning over the Dothraki goes…
Uh, no. No, not really.
I’m pleased that Sophie’s acting has taken a step up this year. She’ll never be a favourite (Sansa, that is), but it’s nice to see her shine a little, just like I felt Kit amped it up last season.
I’m surprised how many people I’ve spoken with seem to have missed the part where Dany tells Daario and Jorah that they can help her. Obviously they and her new friend (great little part for that actress, by the way, ‘It’s a shame he didn’t die sooner’, hee hee), set up a lot of flammable hot spots, hence the blaze going mega so quickly.
TheTouchofFrost,
I sadly agree with you on the Daenerys being unburnt once again story-arc. While it was nice to see that Daenerys is actively trying to find her own solutions to problems by now, it´s sad that her only response to problems is with forcing her own power and strength upon others.
Why is her “growth” in character only ever achieved by showing her as something superior, as someone is to be admired through acts that no other mortal could have achieved? It´s just a cheap plot-device and actually lessens her impact as a character when almost all her achievements are passively accomplished. Good stories should be when quite obviously mortal, vulnerable people go through great lengths to achieve their goals, when they are experiencing growth by starting out on the same level as others and working their way up based on their own achievements and not because of some fantasy-ability of being resistant to fire (and thus being perceived as a strong leader by a culture solely following strength). Her journey was exactly that for a huge part in season one, which made her compelling and relatable. It was a magical moment in S1 changing everything and convenient back then (right place, right culture, right time), with all its good and bad implications, now it´s just a plot-device that doesn´t do much for Dany as a character as it just shows that she can endure such situations only because she´s clearly above normal-mortal level.
All the more sad that the stern, yet strangely kind and proud Dosh Khaleen, a set-up for Dany realizing that she has to once again become “one with the crowd” and learning that power needs to take the backseat once in a while, is disregarded in favour for her once again solving problems with fire and blood. It would have taken at least one episode longer to set things up, yes, but her gaining control over the situation by winning over the Dosh Khaleen/+ the people and breaking off cruel structures from the bottom (and not by conquering from above as in Meereen) would have been slower, but it would have shown a side of her character that is wiser and more importantly, kinder, than the version that ruled in Meereen and took Slaver´s Bay. All Dany did so far is sowing violence, even though it may have been with good intentions, and all she has gotten as a response is confirmation for her behaviour.
It´s even more strange when thinking about the rest of the episode (which still was rather good, might add) clearly indulging in the quiet subtleties between characters and thus being the exact opposite to the scenes in Vaes Dothrak. Those scenes were beautiful (Jon/Sansa, Yara/Theon, Margaery/Loras) and quiet and made me realize once again that I watch GOT for the characters and their journeys, not fiery bravado thrown on the screen that has nothing to do with character-development.
Knight of Storm´s End,
Dany is a conqueror. Whether she is ever going to be a good ruler is up for debate. But she now realizes who she is. Her final thought in the last book was that “dragons plant no trees” and she remembered her house’s words “Fire And Blood.” She is going all scorched earth, literally.
Upon re-watch…
1) I missed Brienne baring steel to Davos and Mel. What the hell, yo?
2) Edd deserves a gift from Jon. Ghost or LC, leave one behind.
3) Sparrow following < Dany following
4) Trying to guess the participants for trial by combat and I thought about the Kingsguard. Other than Jaime and Gregor, I can't name another current member. Is the KG full and who else is currently in it?
Tyrion Pimpslap,
The sad thing about that is, that I do not think her being a conqueror was ever written in stone nor that she needed to follow that path from the point she left Meereen. Her following down the path of a conqueror may be some twisted Form of development interpreted as “following it all the more fiercely”, but it’s definitely not something that had to happen. Now it’s basically cemented and I agree, she’s a conqueror and that is disappointing . Well, it is what it is, I’m just not happy about it and feel like the potential of her character is lying down somewhere in the waters near Meereen…
We don’t have any names for the current members. All those dudes that stopped Cersei from leaving the Red Keep to go see Myrcella’s were Kingsguard, but we don’t know any of them. In the books we have a few names of course, but I can’t remember those being mentioned on the show recently.
I see the double Ds working it, the story of Jon and Sansa interesting, very interesting wording they use. I would not consider it subtle but def telling of their frame of mind regarding their relationship and where its going.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Just didn’t work for me. Retreading old ground and doing it very quickly and pointlessly IMO. Still can’t see her attacking Westeros with an army of Dothraki. It makes no sense as she will have learnt nothing from her time in Essos that if you forcefully take control of somewhere and impose a new culture it doesn’t work. I repeat that no one wants to see an army of barbarian rapists in Westeros. I sense they will help her sack slavers bay and she’ll leave them there and head West with her dragons, unsullied and perhaps with an alligience to Dorne (because why not combine the two weakest areas of the book/show!
Busy working so don’t have time to post much anymore. That and my excitement for the series tends to wane especially now pretty much everyone has been cast and the show has dropped off it’s usual sublime standards. I’m still lurking though! 😛
Knight of Storm´s End,
I think the fact I actually care more about what happens to Cersei than Dany shows how uninteresting and sanctimonious her character has become.
Not entirely sure about them toploading the wall with characters too. Surely they’ve got to start killing a couple off soon. My bet is Melisandre and Davos will be dead by the end of the season…and fingers crossed Brienne!
I think Rickon will die which will be annoying as his character has served no significant purpose in the whole story if so. He could have been left out and it would have had no bearing on the plot.
Clob,
I even looked it up on GoTwiki and it’s a little disappointing how little info there is. It seems like it’s just assumptions based on info from the books.
Ser Jaime Lannister, Lord Commander
Ser {Meryn Trant}, killed in Braavos by Arya Stark.
Ser Boros Blount
Ser Preston Greenfield
Ser Arys Oakheart, returned from Dorne at some point.
Ser Balon Swann (presumably)
Ser Osmund Kettleblack (presumably)
Ser Gregor Clegane, restored to health by Qyburn.
Tycho Nestoris,
One of my greatest laments about the TV show is that it never fully explored the KG and it’s members. The contrast between them when Jaime first joined and when he was made Lord Commander is stark. Really added to his character too when he kept trying to whip them all into shape. The Arthur Dayne pissing line being the best!
TheTouchofFrost,
Gone are the days of Barristan Selmy and the Sword of the Morning. I am ready for Jaime to go questing. He seems out of place in KL.
Giocrypt,
Any chance this is Sophie’s real life crush on Kit bubbling up? I am not opposed to that story (at this point I say throw paint at the wall) but I just don’t see how HBO and D&D sign off that significant of a change.
Question – I didn’t have time to go through all the comments from yesterday … is the general consensus that Jon told Sansa about his death and resurrection? I understand they don’t have time for all those conversations but it just seemed like something that might impact a character like Sansa who had never seen magic before
Familiar clothing – photos for comparison:
http://i.imgur.com/xZLdLxd.jpg
Ned and Jon are wearing the same type of doublet! The belt matches as well, although it can’t be seen in Ned’s photo (a google image search can confirm this).
Ned also wore this doublet while sitting with Sansa during the Hand’s Tourney in S1E4.
I know it’s not meant to be Ned’s doublet, but I’m sure it isn’t a coincidence, either.
What the fuck is Marg wearing?! I can’t wait to see Cersei’s reaction to it. And is Dany’s dress BLACK?!?!?!
BonnieLass,
My heart melts ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Darkrobin,
They did have time for a snippet of conversation, if they would cut out the silence at the table and talk of the food. Also, Brienne cutting off the conversation Davos and Mel, I wish she could have mentioned it at a different point in time as an offhand comment that could get followed up later if it has any relevance that is to how things play out.
Darkrobin,
Yes he did. He said they could stay at CB after what happened. It’s weird not to see her reaction, but I’ll accept it.
Knight of Storm´s End,
I didn’t read your whole comment because it was too long. I’ll just address the first two flaws in your argument. Dany’s failure at ruling Mereen was a big part of her growth. She’s seeing that she is more successful as a conqueror, which is painfully obvious to us. It sucks because she is a motherly type who wants to protect the weak, like a good medieval knight type. You could see it again when she flinched at hearing of the young Doah Khaleens mistreatment.
And her victories haven’t been passive. What she did in this episode is far from passive. She isn’t a warior so it’s not like she could fight the Khals with weapons or her fists. She used the advantage that she has. Burning ppl alive with your own hands is by definition not passive.
That’s all I have to say.
Ice Spider,
You forget that Varys had a big monologue last episode. Whole scene basically to himself and it was stellar. Though I get what you mean. He has spent an unusual amount of screen time quietly observing. But maybe that’s strategy. Just observing and not ruffling feathers.
The fact that so few people know that Jon died and was reborn is interesting. Only the few at CB know this and of course the red woman who is now gonna follow Jon everywhere he goes
But the outsiders don’t know this. Ramsay doesn’t know that Jon died and came back to life
I wonder what this means to the significance of his rebirth
Also, I love Jon. I love new Jon. I love his man bun. And I love Jon and Sansa together
Jack Bauer 24,
What’s that video ? Can you give a link or explain
NeymarJr 123,
It’s on GOT’s Youtube.
Dee,
Oh i love new Jon too! I love his smile. He actually SMILES
Mihnea,
Thanks bro
May 17, 2016 at 3:14 am
why the fuck is everyone carrying on about jet packs n teleporters n shit???
how the fuck do u people know what the date was when we see LF in a scene to where we see say…the wall in a scene?…they could be weeks apart. i dont give a shit if LF is at the wall the next episode, the scene with him and robin the boob could have been a week b4 jon snow died for all we know…just cuz its the next scene in the show you ppl cry jet pack shit like its some big fuck up. I recall there being something said in the books to explain not every thing written was at the very same time, like i said…coulda been weeks apart but no…u morons have to whine like brats that didnt get what u wanted..or needed to find a mistake someplace just to type bullshit….get the fuck over it for fuck sake….geezuz!!!!!
Quote Re
jymion,
I would have said this in a less colourful way than you did, but I agree with you lol!
Which Tarleys? Sam and Gilly or the introduction of Sam’s family, which includes the legendary Randyll Tarley, great warrior, lauded in the land, and particularly important to the viewers, lauded by Stannis. I’ll be happy to see either or both, but am especially curious about Randyll.
There has to be a reason Stannis was shown making the effort to go to meet Sam, the son of the great warrior. Does anybody else think maybe it’s not such a great idea to have the Tyrell army marching into Kings Landing? Is old-man Tarley too much of a wild card? or am I over-extrapolating as to what might happen, based on the few tidbits we’ve learned about him? I’d love to read your thoughts on this.
Are the few tidbits considered enough of a “hung gun” (hanged gun?) to be able to suspect disaster for both the Tyrells and Lannisters if Tarley comes marching in? Where’s Wimsey, our local hung gun expert? What say you, oh logical one?
As I said in a prior entry, I’ve forgiven Mel everything, even Shireen sorta, because she brought Jon back. But having brought Jon back, I’m astounded they aren’t showing her surrounded by Wildings begging her to come revive their loved ones who have passed away. Yes, Jon is special for coming back, but Melisandre is the one with the magic that brought him back. I thought she’d be fighting off people left and right. Oh well, easier to keep the story on track if that isn’t explored, I guess.
jymion is 50 Cent, and I claim my £10.
LMAO. Let me guess. You’re a Preston Jacobs fan.
I havent seen much discussion about this either (if at all). People were too busy bitching about the logistics of how fast a temple could burn.
It definitely did seem like Jon told Sansa, when he said “what they did to me”. Idk, maybe he didnt tell her everything. I hope thats the case. We need to see Sansa’s reaction to this and how she feels about it and Jon. I’d understand if they didnt have him say this right away as it would take away from the whole reunion moment.
I am putting this in spoiler tags even though it’s from this site, but this would appear to tie in with Kinvara/Tyrion/Varys’s scene in next week’s trailer?
If he is too long in vision, where the fuck is Bloodraven then ???
OT If I see it correctly, the numbers are in: 7,822 millions (source showbuzzdaily) /OT
This episode by far ranks right in my top 5. And ofcourse Khaleesi had me cheering at the end as Sansa’s entry did at the opening.. Loved the sibling reunion theme running through it and the ladies taking the lead in empowering and securing each of their houses.
1. Jon- Sana
2. Loras- Margaery
3. Jaime- Cersei
4. Theon- Yaara
However…………. my Lords and ladies,,,,,, who would agree that all the above combined do not hold a Candle to the sibling Dynamic of
5. Tyrion- Cersei by far the most entertaining and funny/tragic and complicated relationship of all thanks to the performances by Headey and Dinklage.
The mother have Mercy and we see them share the screen again before the series ends.
By then Cersei realizes the truth of his innocence and finally gives him the love and acceptance he always longed for from her. That scene would bring about the most tears and claps I bet and would be a perfect parting for them before things start to go to shit…
and then Cersei takes Tyrion by force and has sex with him to get her ultimate revenge! 😀 (Ok the last part was a joke- But am I alone in really hoping those two can finally work it out? fuck the Volanquar shite? Or is there Little hope they will ever share a frame again? Curious about everyone’s thoughts!
Yes, it looked to me like they talked a lot prior to that scene because Sansa also knew about the wildlings and said “they owe their lives to him”. Probably Jon told her he was stabbed by his men but he’s okay now. I mean, Sansa wouldn’t look like that in that scene if she just heard the story that her brother was dead just a day or 2 before but was resurrected. I can imagine that talk…
Jon: By the way sis, I actually died, as in dead dead but the Red Lady brought me back to life.
Sansa: Whutttt? I need a drink. Give me that ale!
ArrySnow,
yes. I think loras will do the walk of atonement because of his haircut. On last episode he still had his golden locks on.
I want a video on that absolutely hilarious Tormund look at Brienne.
Dee,
I’m loving new Jon, too! Great to see him crack jokes, smile, and laugh. He’s ready to live his life to the fullest and not just be bound by duty forever.
Anything you say? hmmm…
Can’t wait for Mel and Davos to have a confrontation about Shireen….
I am surprised Brienne didn’t come out and say ‘I saw a shadow of fog and smoke that had the FACE OF STANNIS stab Renly before my eyes’ – that she didn’t throw that fact in their faces and go all the way with it.
Their reaction would have been interesting.
I love the Dany part. She isn’t quite human and why are people measuring her by human standards. She just has to figure out how to control the dragons now….I hope that will be interesting.
Here you go 🙂
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7IGQcvhDejk
ygritte,
Demon Monkey,
Syed Kabir,
Thanks for the replies. Yes, it does make sense he told her … hard to keep that a secret. I understand the need to truncate the interactions, but a very quick “I have something important to tell you …” with the camera panning out and a horrified look on the face … would have more than sufficed. Not to reopen a can of worms, but we got quite the shot of Theon’s reaction to Ramsey and Sansa …
And yes, 2/3’s of the comments seem to deal with Dany and the temple.
Ashley,
And, assuming that he knew about it (which may not be true as Olenna and Margaery may have kept that amongst themselves), that would be quite the interest revelation.
Re: R+L…I’ve long believed the most popular version, but there is something about it that doesn’t sit well. Jon and Dany are continually set up as parallels; parallel stories for Ice and Fire. But if one of them is actually Ice and Fire together, and the other is just Fire, where’s the balance? So while the clues mostly point to the most popular version, I can see an argument, on a purely conceptual, thematic basis, for a tinfoil theory but it’s not R+L=D, it’s R+L = J+D. Separated at birth because blondie is obviously a Targ. The two “halves” must come back together to save the world. Supported by clues like the lemon tree, and Ned’s outrage at plots to kill Dany, and the whole parallel storylines setting them up as counterparts. But dependent on seriously unreliable narrators, especially in the books where age doesn’t match up. If it were true, the books and show would have some serious ‘splainin to do to justify the twist. I only bring it up because of the conversation in this thread…if you’re going to jump to R+L = D (or R+L= J+ M) then there is room for R+L = J +D lol
Ashley,
I don’t think he was informed about that… In any case, my guess is that he will renounce his family in order to join the sparrows (more or less like Lancel did, but in Loras’ case, trully broken). He would renounce the world, leaving House Tyrell without heir… I haven’t made my mind yet whether he will become the Faith’s Champion or not.
Darkrobin,
Very true. He may not know about his family’s involvement and that would obviously kill this theory. There might have been a few clues in the episode and TIME ran an article about it yesterday. Could just be tinfoil but here is the link for those interested
http://time.com/4337568/game-of-thrones-theory-high-sparrow-tommen-secret/
MakeThemBurn,
I really don’t get this R+L=D theory. Dany’s background is so settled to me, I mean, She isn’t the Stormborn for nothing. Also, Viserys was old enough to remember Dany’s birth circumstances, no?
PS: When You say “all of Dany’s HotU visions can not be about Jon, they are about her”, what vision are You talking about? The blue flower one?
A dornish Tyrell,
I like your theory too!
I suppose we will find out soon! I’m really interested in seeing where they take his story. OT: fairly new here and just wondering, are we meant to cover these types of speculations? Obviously it’s not a spoiler but I’m still trying to figure out when it is appropriate to hide my remarks.
You have a point there… But I am not fully convinced:
If the HS let Tommen know that the Tyrell’s were involved in Jeoffrey’s murder, then Cersei’s reaction doesn’t make much sense. Her best revenge would consist in just let Margeary be humilliated in her WoS. She doesn’t need to run to the Tyrells to propose a military intervention… My theory is that what the HS trully told Tommen was the suspicions of him and his siblings of being product of incest. That would explain Cersei’s decision to align herself with her rivals and to “rescue” Margaery and Loras.
But I might be thoroughly wrong!! I guess we will find out soon. 🙂
PS: I don’t know how to put this in spoiler tags, sorry! :/
I get the feeling that Cersei is cooking up a scheme to destroy the FM, as well as weaken the Tyrell forces and result in Maergery and Loras being killed by having the Tyrell’s attack the sept of Baelor, while Lannister forces stand down. If she succeeds, then she may also avoid her trial. Obviously it’ll backfire in some way
Apollo,
Interesting thoughts!! If a civil war ensues, then the Lannister forces will march on KL to attack both the FM as well as the Tyrells…
Yeah, maybe once they’re both weakened. The only glitch is that Jaime is present when the Tyrell’s descend upon the sept, so not sure if he’s part of the conspiracy. My bet is he’s not, which would explain the shot we’ve seen of him looking pissed with Cersei, and possibly why he leaves for the Riverlands. Otherwise I really can’t fathom why he’d leave when she’s still awaiting trial.
Apollo,
That’s very much true… I completely forgot about that!!
This episode should have been called: Other People’s Blood. The writers lined up all those noble lords and ladies and ripped off their masks, one by one.
First up, Sansa. The gods would have been kinder to Jon if he never crossed paths with her. Her plan is to shed his blood and the blood of the 2000 able-bodied Free Folk that remain. What a bitter pill to survive the Walkers, but then die for real-estate. Sansa manipulates him with talk of “we”, “ours”, “us” and “family”; however, Jon sulked because he was made to feel like an outsider by Sansa and Catelyn. A modern term to describe Sansa is: Chicken-hawk.
Next is Tyrion. He is glib and vapid and three sheets to the wind. We cannot forget that Tyrion is rich and privileged and always made liberal use of his family’s wealth. He is happy to condemn other people to 7 years of slavery; when he, himself, did not want to take the black, and taunted Jon about doing so.
Then there’s The Queen of Thorns. She says that many will die, better it not be “us”. As she readies herself to confront the religious fanatics and free her heirs, and possibly cause civil war.
Jaime and Cersai: “Fuck everyone who isn’t us!” We will take everything there is!
We have been invited to choose sides, here. These high-borns are no longer sort of pocket monsters we can favour according to which one is the lesser evil; they’re all monstrous. No more getting caught up in their miserable lives and petty squabbles.
Does Jon really want to sacrifice the final strong Free-folk fighting for Winterfell, a castle he is not even heir to? It’s clear that he doesn’t want to do it. She – Sansa – can’t do it on her own, despite her threat. If he goes forward with this, he’ll be doing it for the wrong reason.
Anyone curious about how the wives of Khal Moro will react to Dany, now that she’s burnt him to a human chicharron?
I don’t know the number of times I have watched the ending KhalBBQ scene – especially thanks to YouTube! 😀
Yes, that interview for sure points to some interesting future developments. And High Sparrow has probably underestimated Margaery’s savviness!
I’m not a book reader, but I saw this posted elsewhere. It’s pretty clear that the first two fires have been lit on the show till now. The third one is very interesting. Why would she need to light a FIRE for love? Is something/someone frozen?
Hawk,
Spotted one in the crowd watching the flames. She bowed down to Deny.
Anon,
Anon,
wth??? You clearly werent paying attention were you…
Jons not heir to WF therefore fighting is stupid? whaaaaaa…??
It’s his home. Ramsay’s threats were actually mostly based on him. Ramsay raped his sister. Ramsay tyrannising his fellow countrymen. Rickon’s in some serious danger…what the hell has being heir git to do with anything at all.
The letter was a threat to wildlings too. If u were payin attention they specifically had a shot on Tormunds expression get grave when he heard the threats to his ppl. Plus Theyre not automatically safe cos theyre past the wall. Everyone in the North has greivances with them…afaik they even sent raiding parties as far as WF in books…theyve every reason to fight Ramsay’s united Northern armies…especially with Jon cos he’s obv tgeir only chance at a possible mediation later.
Abt Tyrion…listen to what D&D said inInside the Episode.
btw when Sansa threatened to do it on her own she was referring to rallying armies….with LF etc….youll see nxt few episodes what she meant…
I just want to say that I loved Jon initially refusing to rope the Wildlings into a battle that’s not theirs. He did the same with Davos last season. He doesn’t feel proprietary nor does he feel ownership over them, which is exactly right.
How many times have people criticized shows or movies for storylines where (almost always) a white guy goes to a different civilization and the people there who’re often termed ‘savages’ are stripped of their autonomy and the storyline usually awards said dude with those peoples’ support even if things they fight for have nothing to do with them?
I’m fairly sensitive to colonialist/imperialist undertones and so I loved that Jon refused to use the Wildlings in battles that have nothing to do with them.
HOWEVER, I disagree with your point about Jon/Sansa/Wildlings because the Wildlings did later get threatened by Ramsay. They have a stake in Ramsay’s defeat now.
I loved that the letter threatened them specifically because now they have a reason to join Jon and Jon has a reason to ask. And when Sansa first mentioning using the Wildlings, she did also point out that the Wildlings will not be safe while the Boltons rule the North. And, her point was confirmed by Ramsay’s letter where he explicitly threatened to murder every Wildling at Castle Black.
Lisse,
You do realize that Ramsey – or someone else – worded that letter to lure them into a trap, right? ..And that cooler heads would prevail if Sansa wasn’t there applying intense pressure to Jon when she sees that he’s concerned for her? She pressed every painful button regarding ‘belonging’ and ‘family’ – everything Jon wanted, but was denied to him. Winterfell was where he lived, it wasn’t really his Home.
What, exactly, is the benefit to recapturing Winterfell?
King Crow Jon Snow,
I heard them.
Of course she was; because there is NO way she meant to ride in the Vanguard swinging her sword. She’s willing to send other people to die because Winterfell is “ours”; however, I doubt she’s willing to give her own life for the same.
There may be a good reason to re-take Winterfell, but that reason sure as hell isn’t that it’s “ours”. When the 2000 fighting Free-folk are dead, what becomes of their children and the old and sick?
..oh yeah, I forgot some people.
Margery and Loras. Loras tells his sister to “Let them win.”
Karstark, junior. We find out that he likes little boys.
Umbers. They are miserable traitors.
High Sparrow. He’s not high-born; but, I imagine someone will catch him in bed with a 15 year old boy, shortly.
Brienne. Sick with the disease of her class. She parcels herself out to one high-born after the other, risking her life to avenge them…even after they’re dead.
Yara. Rejects her broken brother for her ambition….a shit-pile on the ocean. But, I guess its ‘home’.
Okay, I don’t believe that someone else wrote that letter. D&D rarely, if ever, go the subtle obfuscation route, especially now that they’re streamlining a lot of their storytelling. And we know, for one, that he does have Rickon. Also, a Bolton soldier delivered the letter??????
But, say, Ramsay didn’t write the letter. Say, that’s an absolute fact that he didn’t write the letter. Jon, Sansa, the NW, the Wildlings, none of them know that. They’re reacting based on what they know and believe. They believe that Ramsay wrote the letter. You can only really judge the the Wildlings’ (and Jon’s) implied decision to act against Ramsay based on what they know. They’re going on the information they have and, in that, I don’t think the Wildlings nor Jon are being coopted into a War that’s not theirs. Hell, Jon should act the minute he heard about Rickon which we know IS true.
If the purpose of the letter was Ramsay wanting the other side to be the aggressor, that goes against exactly what Ramsay himself outlined before he killed Roose. He wanted to go to CB then.
And, I don’t get what the veracity of Ramsay’s claims or the fact that it might be a trap, do with Jon or the Wildlings being coopted. They react to the knowledge they get. And, according to that knowledge, it’s right for them to defend themselves.
I do think that Sansa’s pushing and even her point about the Wildlings’ being unsafe with Ramsay around does not come from an altruistic place from caring about the Wildlings. It doesn’t. But, even then, she’s not wrong. And, even her less that altruistic motives re: the Wildlings doesn’t matter because she’s right. The letter – as I’ve mentioned they all believe the letter and treat it as real so my argument does too – aligns Sansa’s interests with Jon’s and the Wildlings’.
Jon’s safety (Ramsay threatened his life in 6×02 and back in Season 4 to Locke and Roose) is not assured as long as Ramsay’s alive, nor is Bran’s (he’s out of reach at least), nor is Sansa’s (Jon’s sister whom he purportedly loves and doesn’t want to see raped). Rickon’s life is absolutely 100% in danger. The Wildlings, if they are at CB or allied with Jon, when Ramsay (as per S4 Ramsay and Ramsay in 6×02) storm CB to kill Jon are threatened by Ramsay too.
Sansa might want revenge. She does. She might want her home back and some power back. Of course, she does. She also desperately wants to be safe. All those impulses exist within her and it’s not JUST about playing games that high lords play without care for the little people. She’s not wrong about Ramsay’s threat to all the aforementioned groups of people. I think it’s a bit much to talk about cooler heads prevailing and presumably wanting inaction when there is precedence of Ramsay wanting Jon’s head, when Rickon is held by Ramsay, when Sansa escaped from Ramsay and he will likely want her back to abuse some more.
You asked what the benefit is to recapturing Winterfell? Huh. That’s interesting the way you worded that when the actual goal after the letter would be to overthrow Ramsay who they all believe is threatening their lives. Obviously, they’d get Winterfell under Stark control once Ramsay is ousted but that’s definitely not the primary goal???
For Jon specifically, the benefit is Rickon. Rickon alone.
That alone should spur Jon to act. It’d be unfathomable to me for Jon or Sansa or any sibling to do nothing while they believe their little brother/sister is being held by a monster. From the viewers’ POV, we also have inside information because we know 100% that Ramsay does have Rickon so, narratively, we are being pushed to view aggression against the Boltons and rescuing Rickon as a solid non obfuscated goal.
Benefit for aggression against Ramsay for the Wildlings? Well, they assume the letter is true and they are being threatened with death down to the smallest child. Not even Jon, who initially doubted veracity of Rickon’s capture, doubted the letter’s authorship. Maybe it helped that a Bolton soldier delivered the letter.
TL;DR (earlier post)
Sansa has less than altruistic motives to use the Wildlings initially, but their interests align with the contents of Ramsay’s letter, which they all believe to be real and which was delivered by a Bolton soldier.
It’s a reach to me to act as if Sansa’s coopted everyone into a selfish mission to take back WF for herself, as if that’s the main goal, while cleverly ignoring the fact that 1) everyone believes that Ramsay’s threat to their respective persons is real and the fact that 2) Rickon is 100% held by Ramsay which should be cause alone for Jon to act. I mean.
Lastly, watch this space. Ramsay wrote the letter. I’ll come back and eat my words if he didn’t.
The Wildlings are dead if they don’t fight. The ruling northerners will not tolerate them and will hunt them down and kill them. She isn’t sacrificing them – she is giving them a narrow bridge to safety.
…What Chad,..no opinion on the other lords and ladies?
Sansa isn’t ‘giving’ the Wildlings anything. The Free Folk don’t need Sansa Bolton as their risk assessor and military advisor.
Lisse,
Their reaction is influenced by Sansa’s high-pitched lobbying.
…and yet, Jon doesn’t want to do it. You can see it in his eyes – well acted, by the way. You can see it on his face. You can see it in his body language and hear it in his words. His final resigned nod was not an enthusiastic endorsement. Do you think Sansa even noticed?
…It would look really bad for the Lord Commander to ride on Winterfell. Maybe Ramsay has reconsidered his first brash statement to Roose. It would look really bad for the Warden to ride on Castle Black.
Imagine the same letter delivered without Sansa being there. I don’t know what they’d decide to do, ultimately; but, I think the decision would be calmer than it seems with her screeching at Jon. Even Tormund, who is a big guy, had some blow-back – recoiled – when she reached forward to grab Jon’s hand. The whole thing didn’t strike me as an emphatic, loving appeal from a sister.
Ramsey’s letter contained a stipulation: If you don’t return my bride to me, I will kill you, Rickon and the Wildlings. If Sansa is concerned for her little brother and the Wildlings and Jon, then she could offer to turn herself over to her husband in exchange for Rickon, right? I mean, I wonder if during Jon and Sansa’s reminiscing if the question of how she came to marry Ramsey ever came up. I seem to recall that the marriage was a botched REVENGE scheme.
Did I say they shouldn’t act? What I want is for the people risking their lives to make a calm decision on what to do without being pressured by someone who couldn’t come out from behind a tree to throw so much as a rock to save her own life.
Jon knows now that death is no trifle. Life is the thing to fight for.
At what specific point in that…say 1 minute… conversation did Sansa’s motive turn from selfish to altruistic?