Details released for ‘Game of Thrones: The Touring Exhibition’ in Barcelona, and Ian Beattie reveals a surprising fact about Meryn Trant’s demise

A line of Unsullied costumes is only one of many features of 'Game of Thrones: The Touring Exhibition,' which makes its global debut on October 28 in Barcelona.

A line of Unsullied costumes is only one of many features of ‘Game of Thrones: The Touring Exhibition,’ which makes its global debut on October 28 in Barcelona.

There’s little else that fans of Game of Thrones love more than getting to peek behind the curtain at the ins and outs of the world’s most popular show – and those lucky enough to visit “Game of Thrones: The Touring Exhibition” can experience the most up-close-and-personal view of Thrones that you can get without actually being a part of the show. As we reported in September, the exhibit will make its global debut in Barcelona on October 28, and today we learned more detail about what it will include – and got a few tidbits from former cast member Ian Beattie (Meryn Trant) at an inauguration event for the exhibit.

The 10,000-square-foot interactive exhibit contains costumes, authentic props and more and guides attendees through 10 settings against backdrops that recall the majestic scenery of Westeros:

Setting 1: Pre-show

Visitors begin their experience with a pre-show that includes a montage of dramatic scenes from the show, culminating with the reveal of the Winter Forest, the formal start of the exhibition.

Setting 2: Map Table

Maps and markers used by nobles to plot strategy and war remind visitors of the competing Houses and what has unfolded over the course of the story so far.

Setting 3: The Kingsroad

Highlights include costumes worn by Arya Stark and Sandor “The Hound” Clegane and Needle, Arya Stark’s sword.

Setting 4: King’s Landing

Featuring set decorations, props, and costumes from Joffrey Baratheon’s fateful wedding to Margaery Tyrell, this chamber features the wedding gown of Margaery, the wedding attire worn by Joffrey and his sword, Widow’s Wail, and the litter used to carry Joffrey throughout King’s Landing.

A replica of Jaime Lannister's golden hand is featured in the King's Landing room.

A replica of Jaime Lannister’s golden hand is featured in the King’s Landing room.

Setting 5: The Noble Houses of Westeros

Visitors can explore the noble houses of Westeros, with a multitude of props, costumes, and weapons used by House Bolton, House Baratheon, House Greyjoy, and House Martell. Highlights include costumes worn by Stannis Baratheon and the red priestess Melisandre, the silk costume worn by Ellaria Sand, the leather armor worn by Oberyn Martell, and Shireen Baratheon’s toy stag, carved for her by Davos Seaworth.

An up-close view of Melisandre's necklace, on display in the Noble House of Westeros room.

An up-close view of Melisandre’s necklace, on display in the Noble House of Westeros room.

Setting 6: The Targaryen Chamber

The giant skull of an ancient dragon guards the entrance into Essos, where the Mother of Dragons and her attendants and armies are showcased. This chamber includes costumes worn by Daenerys Targaryen and Missandei, armor worn by the Unsullied warriors, dragon eggs given as a wedding gift to Daenerys, and Khal Drogo’s arakh.

Costumes worn by Daenerys and Missandei, as well as Unsullied armor, are on view in the Targaryen room.

Costumes worn by Daenerys and Missandei, as well as Unsullied armor, are on view in the Targaryen room.

Setting 7: The House of Black and White

This setting is the Hall of Faces, lined with the preserved faces of the dead, ready to be worn by the Faceless Men. Visitors can see costumes worn by Arya Stark and Jaqen H’ghar, and features a unique photo opportunity that allows visitors to add their face to the others preserved in the Hall of Faces.

Setting 8: The Wall and Castle Black

Visitors can visit the ancient stronghold of the Night’s Watch, Castle Black, where they can explore costumes worn by Jon Snow and Alliser Thorne, Jon’s sword Longclaw, and an interactive photo feature that captures them scaling the Wall.

Visitors can see costumes from Jon Snow and Alliser Thorne in the Castle Black room.

Visitors can see costumes from Jon Snow and Alliser Thorne in the Castle Black room.

Setting 9: Beyond the Wall

In the frozen lands beyond the Wall, visitors can view costumes worn by Bran Stark and the costume and harness worn by Hodor, the costume worn by the Night King, wildling daggers, White Walkers’ swords and spears, and dragonglass daggers.

Setting 10: The Throne Room

The final setting of the tour features the structured leather dress worn by Cersei Lannister when she took the throne, the costume armor worn by Joffrey Baratheon during the Battle of the Blackwater, and — most exciting of all — an exact replica of the Iron Throne.

The exhibit runs from October 28 to January 7, 2018.


While the exhibit officially opens to the public on Saturday, an inauguration event was held on October 25, which was attended by Ian Beattie, who played the ill-fated Kingsguard Ser Meryn Trant, and Tom Wlaschiha, also known as the mysterious Jaquen H’ghar. Los Siete Reinos interviewed the two, and while the Wlaschiha story won’t be available until tomorrow, the website released several quotes from Beattie about his time on the show.

“There is an interesting dichotomy,” Beattie said. “The knights of the Kingsguard are supposed to represent courage, chivalry, and many other values; Meryn has none of them. It’s a reflection of how bad King’s Landing is doing, how bad the system’s doing. It’s a great detail the ‘Game of Thrones’ creators are very much aware of.”

Beattie also touched on Trant’s death at Arya’s hands in season five, saying that “one of the points of that scene isn’t just ending this pathetic guy, but that while we’re cheering for his death we begin to worry about Arya’s future. It’s one of those twists; yeah, he deserves it, but then you it makes you think.”

In the interview, Beattie also revealed a surprising bit of information about Trant’s demise.

“I was on set in season two and D&D told me they had plans for my death in the future. I thought I was going to die that very season, but Benioff and Weiss told me: ‘You’re going to die later. Arya’s going to kill you.’ I told nobody for three years,” he said.

62 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. “ Beattie also touched on Trant’s death at Arya’s hands in season five, saying that “one of the points of that scene isn’t just ending this pathetic guy, but that while we’re cheering for his death we begin to worry about Arya’s future. It’s one of those twists; yeah, he deserves it, but then you it makes you think.”
      ————————

      Uh, no. I was just cheering for his death. I didn’t begin to worry about Arya’s future. The only time I worried about Arya’s character was in the bizarro anomoly aka S7e6 musing about cutting off her sister’s face. But everything was back to normal one episode later. 😋
      Oh, and I did worry Arya was turning into a lobotomized dummy when she strolled around Braavos unarmed and oblivious, and got gut-stabbed by The Waif, but that was the director’s fault. He said it was his choice to have her “let her guard down.”

        Quote  Reply

    2. Artemisia,

      (S4e5)
      Arya: “Syrio didn’t have a sword. Or armor. Just a stick.”
      ***
      Sandor: “Your friend’s dead and Meryn Trant’s not ’cause Trant had armor and a big f*cking sword.”

      Whether the symmetry was intentional or coincidental, I will always appreciate that when Arya executed Trant in S5e10 “for killing Syrio Forel” ….. Meryn Trant didn’t have a sword. Or armor. Just a stick.

        Quote  Reply

    3. Tom’s Instagram account always makes me slightly less sad that he hasn’t been on GoT for awhile. The fact that my top 3 dude’s are still alive at this point is incredible.

      Oh Ian, don’t you worry about Arya. She’s just fine. 😊 Good on him for holding onto that info for 3 years!

        Quote  Reply

    4. Pigeon: Oh Ian, don’t you worry about Arya. She’s just fine. 😊 Good on him for holding onto that info for 3 years!

      Yes, that goes to remind us that we as watchers have the responsibility of immersing ourselves in the enjoyment of the episode and the fates of the characters, yet aware enough to afterward separate the character from the actor. I didn’t like MT and cheered at his death, yet this little bit of info makes me appreciate Beattie all the more.

      Also, Jaimie’s gold hand – is the one he actually wears in the show as ornate and detailed as the one shown in the pic? I’ll have to go watch his last scene in S7-7 and take a look. I seem to remember it being more plain.

        Quote  Reply

    5. lol I don’t know anyone who was worried for Arya’s future when she killed Trant. Everyone was like “yaaaaaas qweeen”.

        Quote  Reply

    6. Flayed Potatoes:
      lol I don’t know anyone who was worried for Arya’s future when she killed Trant. Everyone was like “yaaaaaas qweeen”.

      Really! And the show went out of its way to portray him as a sick f*ck pedophile who got his jollies beating up little girls. So as much as he deserved getting enucleated and filleted for beating up Sansa and killing Syrio, there was no sympathy for him. At least not from me.

      PS If it weren’t for MFT, I wouldn’t have been able to use the word “enucleated.” I read it in a book a long time ago. I’m pretty sure it means having an eye removed.

        Quote  Reply

    7. Well, Meryn Trant deserved to die more than most, but I for one was a bit worried about the savage brutality of the way Arya did it. Why not just quickly slash his throat or something?

      What I find most interesting is that apparently during filming season 2, D&D had already season 5 mapped out and planned, at least partly, if they knew Meryn Trant’s fate and when it would happen way back then.

        Quote  Reply

    8. talvikorppi:

      What I find most interesting is that apparently during filming season 2, D&D had already season 5 mapped out and planned, at least partly, if they knew Meryn Trant’s fate and when it would happen way back then.

      Are you thinking what I’m thinking?

      With season 5 being mapped out, even ‘partly’ as you concede, as early as S2, then what the hell happened with Dorne?? 🙂

      In all fairness, Dorne was bad in the books, too. My own opinion, of course. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: The only thing I liked about ShowDorne was that there was less of it then BookDorne.

        Quote  Reply

    9. talvikorppi,

      I wondered about the propriety of a quick throat slashing too, until I did a rewatch and saw how much he was enjoying beating Sansa. And though I’d missed it the first time around, Bronn and others talked about MFT’s reputation as a sadistic child predator.

      I thought Ian Beattie did a great job playing a loathesome character. I hear he’s a great guy and loving father in real life. As for MFT the fictional character…. Beating and punching preteen girls to enjoy their suffering…Hard to say he deserved a quick, painless exit.

        Quote  Reply

    10. Ten Bears:
      talvikorppi,

      I thought Ian Beattie did a great job playing a loathesome character. I hear he’s a great guy and loving father in real life.As for MFT the fictional character…. Beating and punching preteen girls to enjoy their suffering…Hard to say he deserved a quick, painless exit.

      I guess the point was that even though we, the audience, knew what a predator he was and therefore could cheer the brutality with which he met his end, Arya didn’t know his history.

      She knew of Syrio, of course, and she saw that he had a preference for young girls when she followed him to the brothel in Braavos but it is not clear that she knew he beat these girls (or Sansa, for that matter) until she was with him in her disguise.

      I wasn’t worried at the time; I was happy he died because of what I knew, but I can see why he would think we should be concerned about Arya.

        Quote  Reply

    11. Ten Bears,

      When she told Sandor “There is no one worse than you,” part of his response was “Some men beat little girls” (or words to that effect). He didn’t tell her he was most likely referring to Meryn beating Sansa, which is interesting… as though he wanted to shield her from it.

        Quote  Reply

    12. I’ve read Beattie is a longtime fan and still following the show closely. I would have loved to see Sansa’s face when Arya told her about killing Trant. I wasn’t so concerned about Arya–it’s still the only time we saw her be so brutal with a target, but her ultraviolent MO was necessitated by the circumstances. She was going up against an experienced 6 foot+ Kingsguard. Under her thin shift she could hide only a 2-inch oyster knife and a gag cloth. And they were in a busy whorehouse where she had to be as quick and quiet as possible. So the blinding to incapacitate him , the gag, and all those small cuts were necessary. Perhaps she also took her frustration with the HoB&W out on him (“Who are you? You’re no one. Nobody.”). And her own blinding was poetic justice. I wish they had let her warg into a cat like in the books.

        Quote  Reply

    13. Ten Bears:
      Artemisia,

      (S4e5)
      Arya: “Syrio didn’t have a sword. Or armor. Just a stick.”
      ***
      Sandor: “Your friend’s dead and Meryn Trant’s not ’cause Trant had armor and a big f*cking sword.”

      Whether the symmetry was intentional or coincidental, I will always appreciate that when Arya executed Trant in S5e10 “for killing Syrio Forel” ….. Meryn Trant didn’t have a sword. Or armor. Just a stick.

      I love this! Good catch, this kind of ‘symmetry’ in GoT is almost like a kind of ‘word magic’. There are so many instances of this, from little ones like Jamie telling Cat when she hits him ‘ I love a violent woman’, (Cersi and Brienne), to dramatic foreshadowing like Littlefinger asking Sansa if she wants him on his knees in Moletown.

      With enough time, someone could probably work out all the probabilities of season 8 based on what has been said in the past – Game Theory the Game of Thrones.

        Quote  Reply

    14. And this exhibition is starting off in Barcelona! Perhaps not the ideal place at the moment with all the political issues and street demonstrations between those who seek independence for Catalonia and the rest who wish to remain a part of Spain. Shit is going to hit the fan in that city any time if Madrid send in the ‘heavy brigade’ to keep the peace… Mark my words 😮

        Quote  Reply

    15. Wow, it’s kind of disturbing how many people here just happily cheered for a little girl to brutaly murdering a dude. She stabed his eyes out and smiled about it!
      Yes, Trant was a dispicable person and had it coming, but I still found it very troubling that Arya would go to such incredibly violent lenghts.
      You guys really need to think twice about such a scene. Because even if Trant deserved his death, the way Arya did it made her no better than him. She might have found a “appropriate” target for her violent ways there, but that’s the exact way most violent psychopaths become the way they are.

        Quote  Reply

    16. Ser Hogwyn:
      If Tom Wlaschia hasn’t already played a vampire, he should. Bwargle-bleurg-diddly-wah!

      Actually I think Tom Wlaschia has one of those voices where he could be a voice actor/radio actor (well he may already be just that I don’t know about it).

      Flicks and the City at one time did quite a few interviews with GoT actors – maybe not the biggest hitters of the series – but there is one from a few year ago with Ian Beattie where he attending a “con” – I think some cosplayers asked him to take their photo without recognising him and he talks about fluffing his lines in his speech about what a lovely lad the late lamented (ho! ho!) Joffrey was in the trial scene [though obviously he got it write eventually]. He does seem to be an affable person in real life.

        Quote  Reply

    17. batfan,

      “She might have found a “appropriate” target for her violent ways there, but that’s the exact way most violent psychopaths become the way they are.”
      ___________

      1. No. That is not “the exact way most violent psychopaths become the way they are.”

      2. Sadistic child predators are generally serial offenders with hundreds of victims.

      3. Would you have preferred that GoT depict Meryn F. Trant attending anger management clssses and group theraoy sessions?

      4. Compared to the physical pain and lasting trauma someone like MFT inflicts on his victims, I’d say he got off easy. He was incapacitated; told who his accuser was and why he was being punished; and then executed.

        Quote  Reply

    18. Northstar,

      There’s lots of other Arya-Sandor dialogue that resonates later on. At least with me. For example, as soon as the Freys started dropping dead from poisoned wine in the cold open to S7e1, I immediately flashed back to Sandor and Arya in S4e8 talking about Joffrey’s death from poisoned wine, and disagreeing about killing methods:

      Sandor: “Little sh*t deserved to die. But poison — Poison’s a woman’s weapon. Men kill with steel.”

      Arya: “That’s your stupid pride talking. It’s why you’ll never be a great killer.”

        Quote  Reply

    19. Ten Bears,

      That was not my point. The problem is not with Mery Trant dying horribly. He may deserved what he got.
      The problem is that just because Trant deserved it, doesn’t mean that it’s ok for Arya to do such a thing. If she horribly tortures a guy and enjoys doing that, then she is no better than him. Wether or not he deserved it doesn’t matter. These are two completely different things.
      When we convict a murderer these days, we put him in prison. We don’t chop of his limbs and feed them to him. Because that’s what makes us different. That’s what makes us better.
      That’s why it is highly disturbing to cheer for a little girl to violently murder someone and smile about it.
      She didn’t become a rightous fighter for good, she just became another murderer.

        Quote  Reply

    20. Northstar,

      Yes! Exactly. And Sandor might grudgingly acknowledge the efficiency with which Arya wielded the “woman’s weapon.” After all, he mentored her to accept “how the world is” and “the way things are.”

      Along those lines, there were other lessons learned by Arya in that S4e5 scene with Sandor that came into play in her later encounters with Meryn F. Trant:

      • Arya’s friend Syrio may have been “the greatest swordsman who ever lived”, and “any boy whore with a sword could beat three Meryn Trants”, but swordsmanship alone won’t defeat a better-equipped, armored opponent. The waterdancing skills Syrio taught her weren’t enough in the real world. To reinforce that lesson, Sandor provided a demonstration:

      Sandor: “The greatest swordsman who ever lived didn’t have a sword? All right. You have a sword. Let’s see what he taught you. Go on, do it for your Braavosi friend…”

      (Arya spins, thrusts Needle into Sandor’s midsection…but it’s stopped by his armor. She pushes with both hands, but Needle can’t pierce his armor. He grabs Needle, and whallops her across the face, knocking her to the ground. He hands Needle back to her, and explains):

      “Your friend’s dead and Meryn Trant’s not ’cause Trant had armor and a big f*cking sword.”

      • Again, whether intentional or coincidental, this “smackdown” reminded me of the ritual depicted in movies like “Kingdom of Heaven”*(2005) in which a knight is anointed by swearing him to a code of conduct…accompanied by a smack to his face with the admonition:
      “And that is so you remember it.”

      • Arya certainly remembered Sandor’s lesson: She followed MFT through the streets and brothel(s) of Braavos, but did not impulsively attack him while he was dressed in his Kingsguard armor and carrying his sword. Instead, after conducting reconnaisance, she carefully planned her “hit” for the rare occasion when MFT would not have armor or his big f*cking sword.

      * Note: KoH-GoT crossovers:
      Bronson Webb (beheaded NW deserter “Will” from S1e1); Nikolaj-Coster-Waldau; Alexander Siddig; and Iain Glen as King Richard the Lionheart. Also (pre-S6), “fancasting” of Lyanna Stark used pictures of Eva Green in KoH wearing a hooded fur parka.

      P.S. Thanks to The Hound, I’ve subconsciously ascribed to Meryn Trant the middle name “F*cking” – and the initials “MFT.”

        Quote  Reply

    21. My take on the Ian Beattie comment was that D&D heard from George that Arya will eventually kill Meryn Trant, given this is season 2 I do not see any other option but for it to be a future book minor spoiler. I’m sure the context will be different though.

        Quote  Reply

    22. batfan,

      Arya didn’t “enjoy” it or “smile about it.” She didn’t “chop off his limbs and feed them to him.” And yes, maybe now in some places “when we convict a murderer these days, we put him in prison.” But that was not an option in the fictional world of GoT: as a KG, MFT enjoyed absolute immunity.

      And what should Arya have done? File a police report? It’s tough enough these days for molestation, abuse and domestic violence victims to get “justice.” For too many, the “system” re-victimizes them all over again. So it’s kind of mixing apples and oranges to impose modern sensibilities on a fictional, medieval era world in which girls were commodities.

      I’ve re-watched that S5 scene together with MFT accosting her and Syrio in S1; MFT beating, punching, and humiliating Sansa; and MFT rejecting teen prostitutes as “too old.” I have a tough time concluding that what Arya did was disproportional.

        Quote  Reply

    23. Jon Snowed,

      The “Mercy” chapter of TWOW

      released by GRRM has a similar scene of theater troupe novice actress “Mercy” in Braavos, luring a differently-named KG (?) character on her list to her room, and slicing open a vein to kill him. Obviously, it’s revealed that “Mercy” is another guise assigned to Arya by the FM. I assume the show adapted this scene into the MFT splatterfest.

      So, I’m not so sure book!MFT will suffer the same fate.

        Quote  Reply

    24. But if they knew as far back as Season 2 that Arya will kill Meryn then surely it was before Mercy was written and could only have got that from GRRM if you follow my logic?

      I fully agree S6 theatre scene is coming from the mercy chapter adaptation again something they must have read before GRRM published it on the net for them to have included in S6.

        Quote  Reply

    25. Ten Bears,

      “And what should Arya have done?”

      Slitting his throat in one quick motion. Exectuting him was most likely the best option in the world of GoT. Again, the issue is with how she did it. She stab his eyes out, gaged him, then stab him in the belly multible times, the started a slow speach so he could suffer some more, then she executed him. That’s what a crazy person does, not someone that seeks justice.
      The prison comparison was just to illustrate that behaving in the exact same violent way as the criminal is not the right thing to do. It brings you down to the same level, which is not a place where you as the hero want to be.

      I can’t belive I have to argue why horrible torture is a bad thing… what year are we living in?

        Quote  Reply

    26. batfan:
      Ten Bears,

      The problem is that just because Trant deserved it, doesn’t mean that it’s ok for Arya to do such a thing. If she horribly tortures a guy and enjoys doing that, then she is no better than him. Wether or not he deserved it doesn’t matter. These are two completely different things.

      So you would also agree that Sansa is no better than Ramsay, by the same token.

      Sorry, but that just doesn’t wash. Not in that world.

        Quote  Reply

    27. Once again, that is not my original point.
      Yes, it makes sense for these character to do wat they do in their world. I’m not arguing that. I’m not saying Arya shouldn’t have done that.
      I’m saying that we as viewer shouldn’t gleefully cheer when a little girl commits a horrible act of violence. Weather or not it is justified in that world is not the point.
      The point is that Meryn Trant’s death, no matter how much he deserved it, is not a “You go, girl!” moment.
      That is what Ian Beattie was saying. That scene should feel good because Trant got what he deserved, but it’s actually really uncomfortable since Arya is sacrifice part of her humanity by become this violent. Yet most people here apparently just celebrated Arya and thought what she did was really cool. That is incredibly desensitized.

        Quote  Reply

    28. Jon Snowed,

      Gee, I don’t know when GRRM actually wrote that Mercy chapter. It’s been around quite a number of years now. I don’t know how long ago the showrunners knew about it, or whether it was released before they told Ian Beattie. A dedicated bookreader out there would probably know.
      It just seemed to me that the show substituted MFT for the KG guy in the book chapter. (Ralf or Raff the Sweeting or Sweetling?) Don’t quote me on this, but I read somewhere that the scene in S4e1 of Arya giving Polliver a tracheotomy while repeating back the words he spoke to Lommy before killing him, were also an adaptation of a book scene involving a different bad guy.

      Hmmm. I may try to see when GRRM released that Mercy chapter on his blog. It was good reading too.

        Quote  Reply

    29. batfan:

      You guys really need to think twice about such a scene.

      It’s presumptuous to tell others how to think. Even if you are smarter or more knowledgeable or just look down from some presumed higher moral ground, it’s still insulting. Also, for what it’s worth, Ten Bears and most people who have participated in this thread have been active on WotW a long time and have earned a certain credibility edge over a relative newcomer. One earns credibility by frequently offering opinions, facts, quotes, URLs, theories, etc and supporting them by citing aspects of the show/books that support them

      The problem is that just because Trant deserved it, doesn’t mean that it’s ok for Arya to do such a thing. If she horribly tortures a guy and enjoys doing that, then she is no better than him. … When we convict a murderer these days, we put him in prison. We don’t chop of his limbs and feed them to him. Because that’s what makes us different. That’s what makes us better.
      That’s why it is highly disturbing to cheer for a little girl to violently murder someone and smile about it. She didn’t become a rightous fighter for good, she just became another murderer.

      Arguably, she is a righteous fighter for the good, since she killed only villains, thus making the world a better place. Arya is the Warrior. According to the High Septon, “The Warrior punishes those who think themselves beyond the reach of justice”, which is exactly what she was doing. You use modern sensibilities to conclude Arya is like a murderous psycho who fortuitously killed a villain. Characters inhabiting a fictional fantasy medieval world must be judged only by THAT world’s standards, plus the circumstances. Since S2, Westeros is a lawless, war-torn country. Even in peacetime, it lacked a prison system, codified laws, independent judiciary with appeals process, a multi-layered and fair enforcement contingent, etc. We don’t see due process, lawyers, standard prison sentences with possible parole, etc. She brought JUSTICE to people she **personally knew** had committed a major crime against anyone who was young, innocent, or defenseless. This was much more than vengeance on behalf of herself or her family. Though she knew Littlefinger was a villain from hearing him plot with Tywin in Harrenhal, she didn’t put him on her List since knew of no crimes by him against defenseless innocents. (Sansa did know of innocents Littlefinger had killed–Lysa, Ser Dontos, Jon Arryn–but took no action until Arya handed her LF’s dagger as a signal!). Even when she knew LF was plotting against Jon, she trapped him into revealing his murderous intent but let the local judicial system dispose of him.

      You allege she smiled about murder. Today, we have a saying, “Justice delayed is justice denied.” She had finally managed to bring justice years after the crime. We all smile at a job well done. True sadists are Joffrey, Ramsay, Cersei. Arya doesn’t seem sadistic; even the Frey Pies were Walder’s appropriate punishment for violating a very sacred rule–Guest Right. (And Sansa did let Ramsay be eaten by dogs.) Even our currently most universal and basic moral rules ( the Ten Commandments?) only vaguely apply. What applies in Westeros is closer to an eye for an eye. I suspect Jaqen really punished her for taking a bit too long to finish Trant and thus inflicting pain. He later told the Waif, “Don’t let her suffer.” She did slit LF’s throat in one quick motion, but as I said in my previous post, the circumstances were challenging and she only had an oyster knife. It’s hard to slit with even a modern oyster knife: http://www.cookthink.com/reference/4212/What_is_an_oyster_knife

        Quote  Reply

    30. Pigeon: So you would also agree that Sansa is no better than Ramsay, by the same token.

      Sorry, but that just doesn’t wash. Not in that world.

      Exactly.
      “There is no justice in this world unless we make it.”

      – S7e7 – Sansa, the Lady of Winterfell, repeating back MiddleFinger’s words to him right before she passed the sentence.

        Quote  Reply

    31. batfan,

      Exactly.

      Pigeon,

      Exactly. Ramsay deserved to die even more than Meryn Trant, but the way Sansa did it did not make me cheer. It made me feel uncomfortable.

      Also, one thing I take issue with is “Arya apologists” saying Arya “executed” Meryn Trant (and others). That’s a loooong stretch of the meaning of the word. Execution is carrying out a death sentence given in a trial held by people in the appropriate position of authority, like when Ned executes the Night’s Watch deserter, “In the name of King Robert (titles, titles), I, Lord Eddard Stark of Winterfell, Warden of the North, do sentence you…”. OK, the Westerosi legal system is pretty horrible, but the point is that Ned was formally invested with the power to sentence people, even to death. In the books, Cat specifically says Ned did not enjoy that role, but carried it out as a duty.

      Compared to Ned, Arya has no such authority and she’s acting “judge, jury and executioner” often based on personal grudges and emotions and her flawed perception of things – for example, Cersei is on her list for executing Ned, though that was all Joffrey’s work. We watchers might think Cersei deserveses to die for plenty of other things, but Arya’s motivation for wanting to kill Cersei is plain wrong.

      Arya is a vigilante, and some, even most, of her killings are justified in the context of the world that Westeros is, but they’re hardly lawful “executions”. They’re just killings, even murders.

      I, for one, feel the tragedy that an adorable, spirited young girl has turned to violence as an answer to her traumatic experiences and grievances. Violence is not the answer. Arya could take a leaf out of her adored big brother’s Jon’s book. He is all about conciliation, letting bygones be bygones, for the bigger picture. Hopefully Arya and Jon will reunite in this coming season and Arya will learn this lesson from Jon. I love Arya and want her turn away from killing and violence and do something positive, like go exploring west of Westeros.

        Quote  Reply

    32. Ten Bears,

      About Raff the Sweeting. He’s no KG. He’s one of Gregor “the Mountain” Clegane’s henchmen, who ends up in Braavos due to a plotline not appearing in the show. Arya got to know him while she was in Harrenhal (books).

      The show hit the same plot points with Arya, but simplified it with a different antagonist (Meryn Trant) for two others in the books.

        Quote  Reply

    33. talvikorppi,

      Thanks for the clarification. I have not read the books yet. I read the “Mercy” chapter online because I’d heard it was well-written. It was. I liked the shifting POV from the voice of the novice actress – it really showed Arya “in character” in a different identity.

      So, was the show! scene with Arya and MFT an adaptation of the book! scene with this Raff guy?

        Quote  Reply

    34. Ten Bears,

      I don’t know how much book spoiled you want… but as you have read the “Mercy” chapter… The way Arya kills Raff, with deceit and no mercy, is kind of her killing MT in the show, I guess.

      In the books she earlier kills another character, one that has done her or her family no wrong, which leads to her blindness punishment. So the show combined the two killings. The point remains the same, Arya is not “no-one”, she’s very much Arya Stark of Winterfell, and following her own agenda while pretending to adhere to the tenents and rules of the House of Black and White. Being very deceitful, one could argue… What would poor honourable dead Ned say!

        Quote  Reply

    35. Northstar,

      Thanks!
      I have to say, with 67 hours of episodes, I’m always wary if a parallel or “connection” I think I’m seeing is just a coincidence, or the product of “confirmation bias”: I see a connection because I want to see it.
      It helps to rewatch with the sound off and read the closed captioning – there’s so much I miss the first time around. And although 95% of the episodes are beautifully written and sprinkle little tidbits of information, every now and then an adaptation decision goes off the rails (eg Sansa marrying into the Boltons), or directorial decisions mess up a decent script (Arya walking around Braavos like a carefree tourist and getting gut-stabbed; and then running around town a short while later like an Olympic decathlete, director’s choices to ramp up the “drama” – and still annoy me.)
      Anyway, there’s so much good stuff, and I’m sure some “patterns” aren’t just the product of farfetched speculation.
      Sorry for rambling…

        Quote  Reply

    36. talvikorppi,

      I’ve only read the TWOW “Mercy” chapter online; and three passages from the books because I noticed so many readers chose them as their “favorite” in online surveys:
      1. Arya’s internal monologue on the Braavos dock (“Needle was Jon Snow’s smile”) which Maisie Williams nailed just with facial expressions without saying a word);
      2. “The Broken Man” speech (unfortunately, not included in S6e7 “The Broken Man”); and
      3. Arya’s scene with BwoB upon seeing Harwin: “You have to know me!”

      Of course, by osmosis, I’ve picked up some other “book” facts by reading comments here, eg, “prophecies” that haven’t been included in the show, and storylines and characters excised in the adaptation process like switched babies and apparent imposters (which leads me to believe they’re red herrings).

        Quote  Reply

    37. talvikorppi,

      “Poor honorable Ned” couldn’t say anything, because from what I can tell, he was a loving father and a good man, but had a tenuous relationship with the truth. (And damn it! Why was he so concerned that Cersei’s incest bastards would be far away and safe and sound when the sh*t hit the fan without making sure his own daughters were far away and safe and sound???)

        Quote  Reply

    38. Wolfish:
      Ten Bears,

      When she told Sandor “There is no one worse than you,” part of his response was “Some men beat little girls” (or words to that effect). He didn’t tell her he was most likely referring to Meryn beating Sansa, which is interesting… as though he wanted to shield her from it.

      Ah, that’s right. I think Trant’s perversion must have been an open secret among the KG and inner circle. Bronn knew, I think. And I think Sandor witnessed MFT enjoying himself smacking Sansa across the face and bloodying her lip on the footbridge, and ripping off her dress and punching her in the stomach in the throne room.
      A little poetic justice there: punch one Stark sister in the stomach and get away with it; punch another Stark sister in the stomach, and game over.

        Quote  Reply

    39. It’s presumptuous to tell others how to think.Even if you are smarter or moreknowledgeable or just look down from some presumed higher moral ground, it’s stillinsulting.Also, for what it’s worth, Ten Bears and most people who have participated in this thread have been active on WotW a long time and have earned a certain credibility edge over a relative newcomer.One earns credibility by frequently offering opinions, facts, quotes, URLs, theories, etc and supporting them by citing aspects of the show/books that support them

      Ohh, I’ve been here for years. I just very rarely post since most people here are pretty stuck up and defensive. See quote above.
      I did not presume to tell others HOW to think. “Please think twice about this” is simply a suggestion to look deeper into a matter.

      But thank you for reminding me why I never post. I see everyone is still on his high horse. I guess I’ll see you guys in five years or so. Byyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeee

        Quote  Reply

    40. Ten Bears,

      Yeah, that was kind of my ironic point. Poor dead Ned was not as righteous and honourable as everybody – including his children – think.

      However, poor dead Ned never did anything to dispell this notion, and he was arguably very truthful and honourable in most matters, just not anything relating to Jon’s parentage – for a good reason, but still one of the biggest liars in the saga.

      His big lie was believed just because people thought Ned wouldn’t lie, especially in a way that brought dishonour to him – fathering a bastard while married isn’t exactly wrong by Westerosi standards, but not exactly honourable either. I bet many people wanted to believe the lie because they were not-so-secretly pleased and even gleeful about the honourable Ned being brought down a peg or two. Lucky for Jon. (I’ve always wondered why nobody, not even Varys, put two and two together about Lyanna being abducted and missing for a year or so and Ned then turning up with a baby bastard son…)

        Quote  Reply

    41. talvikorppi,

      Oops. Sorry I missed the irony of your “honorable Ned” reference. 🤢

      • I think you’re right that lots of people were “not-so-secretly pleased” to see Mr. Morality brought down a peg. (What’s the word for deriving joy from someone else’s misfortune….Schadenfreude, I think.) I know when Jaime was a prisoner he had a fine time goading Catelyn about Ned bringing home a bastard.

      • About people failing to put two and two together: If this makes sense, maybe people thought Ned was so honorable he wouldn’t lie about being dishonorable?

      Actually, I thought Robert might be the one to be suspicious. But perhaps people figured men will be pigs in time of war, and Robert figured he’d cut his buddy some slack because he himself was a manwhore. I also thought maybe Ned could say he found an abandoned war orphan somewhere…but that probably wouldn’t fly.
      The only other explanation I can think of is that everybody accepted the “lie” of Robert’s Rebellion as historical fact: Lyanna had been kidnapped and raped (and died as a result?) If that were the case, maybe no one would expect Ned to protect a rape baby.

      • To be cont… Semi-related question to follow

        Quote  Reply

    42. (Cont. from above)

      • I’ve been wondering if the Sam + Bran Think Tank might think twice about Bran’s conclusion that “We have to tell him [Jon].”
      First of all, it’s going to be hard enough as it is for Jon to return to WF and tell all those cranky Northern Lords he traded away their independence to a Targaryen woman. (Looking at you Lord Glover.) If word gets out that he’s a Targ too? They’ll think they’ve been completely scammed and run him out of town – or worse.
      The last thing the North needs now is upheaval.
      Second, if Sam + Bran notice Jon + Dany are already a “couple”, maybe they’ll wonder what good would it would do to tell him now?
      And if Cersei gets wind of it, she may send an assassin to snuff him out.
      I can only see awful repercussions if word gets out that Jon Snow is really Aegon Targaryen.

      Sam + Bran ought to discuss doing what dear old Ned did: keep it a secret from everyone, including Jon. It’s really the safest course of action.

        Quote  Reply

    43. talvikorppi,

      Arya could take a leaf out of her adored big brother’s Jon’s book. He is all about conciliation, letting bygones be bygones, for the bigger picture. Hopefully Arya and Jon will reunite in this coming season and Arya will learn this lesson from Jon. I love Arya and want her turn away from killing and violence and do something positive, like go exploring west of Westeros.

      Um, what? I don’t think you can say that about Jon, I think he’d more than likely applaud her for making justice for her family. Yes yes she probably should have found a friendly police officer and filed a former charge, etc etc. That is not there world. (and in many places in our world,that doesn’t work there either)

      BTW did you react the same way when Gendry hammered those two KG for doing their jobs?

        Quote  Reply

    44. talvikorppi,

      IIRC the reason why she killed Raffi is that he was a NW deserter; she was thinking of her brother jon, and what her father would have done. So yeah MFT was substituted for that along with a better reason for killing him. And like in the show, she is then blinded by the Kindly Man (I really wished the show had used the books Arya arch instead of how they went; would have gone a long way to answer many questions about her training) But you are right, both lead to the same point:

      The point remains the same, Arya is not “no-one”, she’s very much Arya Stark of Winterfell, and following her own agenda while pretending to adhere to the tenents and rules of the House of Black and White. Being very deceitful, one could argue… What would poor honourable dead Ned say!

        Quote  Reply

    45. Ten Bears,

      Sam + Bran ought to discuss doing what dear old Ned did: keep it a secret from everyone, including Jon. It’s really the safest course of action.

      We had a discussion a while back about what consequence this action lead to. It wasn’t a pretty sight, with lots of bad feelings (esp how Catelyn treated Jon and what that did to his psyche) So Im not so sure its the safest course of action. And Im not so sure that its a secret can remain quiet considering who knows.

        Quote  Reply

    46. talvikorppi,

      About wanting Arya to “turn away from killing and violence” and do something positive:
      I have a feeling it won’t be Jon who steers her in the right direction, but Sandor. He kind of got her started on sport killing – or at least didn’t restrain her impulses.
      I remember after Arya (understandably) stabbed the Frey doofus who was laughing about Catelyn dying and bragging about sewing Grey Wind’s head to Robb’s corpse, and I thought Sandor was going to scold her, but he said something like “Next time you’re gonna do something like that….tell me first.”
      He told her once: “Hate’s as good a thing as any to keep a person going. Better than most.”
      And their chat about killing techniques while walking to the Bloody Gate was like how some people talk about their golf games.

      Though Sandor’s still the same grumpy guy, I think he’s abandoned his “killing is the sweetest thing there is” philosophy; with Brother Ray, he started expressing remorse for the things he’d done in the past; and he’s embraced Beric’s belief that “You can still help a lot more than you’ve harmed, Clegane. It’s not too late for you.” (That echoed what Ray told him: it’s never too late to stop killing people and start helping people.)

      Sandor may feel guilty about treating his young hostage as a de facto apprentice in the art of killing. If so, he’ll also feel responsible for making sure he hasn’t created a murder machine.

      There have been frequent callbacks to the Hound in Arya’s story line since she left him to die. (Eg, Jaqen accusing her of lying to herself that she “hated” him; telling the Waif she’d taken Sandor off her list because she was confused: she did, then didn’t want him dead anymore; and of course Arya mentioning the Hound in S7e4, and Brienne updating Sandor in S7e7 that Arya was alive and well in WF.)

      If Sandor is aboard the S.S. Incest sailing north, a reconciliation with the ninja warrior princess could happen early in S8. If so, I just hope it isn’t rushed. The Hound & Arya road show will always be remembered as one of the highlights of GoT. I’d like a fitting conclusion to it.

      – End Rambling –

        Quote  Reply

    47. ash:
      talvikorppi,

      IIRC the reason why she killed Raffi is that he was a NW deserter; she was thinking of her brother jon, and what her father would have done.So yeah MFT was substituted for that along with a better reason for killing him. And like in the show, she is then blinded by the Kindly Man (I really wished the show had used the books Arya arch instead of how they went; would have gone a long way to answer many questions about her training)But you are right, both lead to the same point:

      Sorry to return so late to this but have been super busy over the weekend.

      You are remembering incorrectly.

      The character you mention should maybe be “greyscaled” (spoiler coded) because it’s in an advance released chapter of the forthcoming (whenever it comes forth…. sigh…) book.

      In the books published to date, Arya’s blindness punishment results from killing another character (not appearing in the show) – someone who has done her or her family no harm. I think the point of that killing is that we readers are meant to question her actions.

      Anyway, the show using Meryn Trant for this plot point was deftly done, and the questioning of Arya’s actions was achieved by the violent brutality of the way Arya killed MT. I don’t think it was supposed to be a yay! badass! moment (though MT deserved to die more than most), but a moment when we’re supposed to reflect on what Arya has become and feel slightly uncomfortable, not blindly cheering this child murderer.

      That’s my take, anyway.

        Quote  Reply

    48. Ten Bears,

      Aah, I really like your “rambling’. As you probably know, I don’t necessarily agree with everything, but your enthusiasm, and the courteous way you interact with everybody is very endearing.

      As to this post, I agree that Sandor, who, it could be argued, taught Arya to be a killer, could help bring her back. He and the beloved big brother… erhm, cousin Jon.

      I want Arya to snap out of her path of revenge, being hung up on the past, and look to the future and use her special skills in a positive way in the great war to come, and after. She’s such a firespark… or should that be icespark as she’s a Stark through and through? Whatever, a sparkling young lady, if she channels it the right way.

        Quote  Reply

    49. talvikorppi,

      “I want Arya to snap out of her path of revenge, being hung up on the past, and look to the future and use her special skills in a positive way in the great war to come, and after.”
      _____________

      I had thought changing her path was the significance of her scene with Hot Pie in S7e2, when she treats him rather coldly at first but then warms up to him after learning her family has retaken WF and Jon “is King in the North” now; followed by her on her horse, at a literal and figurative crossroads, deciding whether to head south towards KL to kill Cersei, or go north back to WF and reunite with her family. She was facing south; then looked south, looked north… then swung her horse around and headed north, towards home.

      That’s one of the reasons her transformation into PsychoArya in S7e5 and e6 was so jarring. (Really? Musing about cutting off Sansa’s face and impersonating her?) I thought she got back to the “real” Arya by the end of S7e7, but who knows?
      It may take a little more positive “mentoring” to get her to step off the vengeance trail.

        Quote  Reply

    50. Ten Bears: Really! And the show went out of its way to portray him as a sick f*ck pedophile who got his jollies beating up little girls. So as much as he deserved getting enucleated and filleted for beating up Sansa and killing Syrio, there was no sympathy for him. At least not from me.

      PS If it weren’t for MFT, I wouldn’t have been able to use the word “enucleated.” I read it in a book a long time ago. I’m pretty sure it means having an eye removed.

      The german translation of enucleated gives a better sense though.

      “To remove the inner core of something”

        Quote  Reply

    51. You are remembering incorrectly.

      The character you mention should maybe be “greyscaled” (spoiler coded) because it’s in an advance released chapter of the forthcoming (whenever it comes forth…. sigh…) book.

      I didn’t spoiler code the name because Im pretty sure I read that close by the chapter of Sam arriving in Bravos in the last published book.. You may be right – need to reread thos chapters again.

        Quote  Reply

    52. Erica,

      Good observation! I remember some fans were suggesting that the scenes showing MFT prowling for and beating underage prostitutes were gratuitous, since we already knew MFT was a sadistic child predator. But like you said, Arya didn’t know that… until she witnessed it first-hand.

      If we were supposed to “worry about Arya’s future” or be concerned she had crossed over to the Dark Side, then they should have just had her encounter MFT in a secluded location* and announce he was condemned to die “for killing Syrio Forel.” Then any “overkill” or unnecessary brutality would cause the viewer to “worry” about Arya. But having Arya witness MFT’s deviant, violent behavior, and reinforcing for the viewer that MFT is a serial child-beater, made that scene more of a “fist-pump” moment.

      *In the “Mercy” chapter,

      Mercy/Arya lures Raff(?) from the theater and up to her room
      so she can slice him in privacy.

        Quote  Reply

    53. Ok I am not going crazier (or getting crazier than I already am) In Feast of Crows

      One night when the black moon begins, she meets Dareon after he departs the Happy Port. Arya is angered by the singer’s abandonment of his vows as a black brother. Returning to Brusco’s, she gives him the coin she has collected selling his mollusks and a pair of new boots, then heads to the House of Black and White for three nights…. the kindly man visits her. She tells him the three new things she has learned, finishing with the knowledge that Dareon is dead- his throat was slit and his body dumped in the canal. When the kindly man asks who killed him, she replies, “Arya of House Stark.” The priest again asks her who she is, to which she answers, “no one”. But, as always, he tells her she lies, then asks the waif to bring Arya some warm milk to help her sleep. Arya goes to bed, but upon awakening in the morning, she discovers that she is blind.

        Quote  Reply

    Jump to the Top

    Leave a Reply

    Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *