An audition for Game of Thrones season 6 has surfaced online on Vimeo (and since been taken down), with an actress trying out for the role of the beautiful priestess mentioned in the casting breakdowns. We do believe these are real audition sides on the video, with dialogue that could well be a part of season 6, much like how the Sand Snakes’s leaked audition scripts last year turned out to all be a part of the show.
Spoilers, of course!
In the video, English actress Tehmina Sunny read a scene in which the red priestess, apparently named Kinvara, visits with Tyrion and Varys in Meereen.
In the novels, the head of the Red Temple of Volantis is a man named Benerro. It’s possible this priestess is a show equivalent of that character. Tyrion and Varys appear to be seeking her approval and support of Daenerys.
WotW reader Jared has transcribed the video:
Herald: “You stand in the presence of Kinvara, High Priestess of the Red Temple of Volantis, the Flametruth, the light of wisdom, the first servant of the Lord of the Light.”
Tyrion: “Welcome to Meereen. That’s about the extent of my Valyrian. Do you mind if we continue in Common?”
*Kinvara nods*
Tyrion: “Thank you for traveling all this way. I know from personal experience how uncomfortable the journey can be. The truth is, we need your help. Our hope is that we can persuade you to, to …”
Kinvara: “You want my priests to convince the Meereenese that the city’s conqueror is the people’s savior.”
Tyrion/Varys: “We prefer liberator to conqueror.”
Kinvara: “You don’t have to persuade me of anything. I came to help. Daenerys Stormborn is the One Who Was Promised. From the fire, she was reborn … to remake the world.”
Tyrion: “Yes.”
Kinvara: “She freed the slaves from their chains and crucified the Masters for their sins.”
Tyrion/Varys: “She did indeed.”
Kinvara: “Her dragons are fire made flesh. A gift from the Lord of Light. But you’ve heard all of this before, haven’t you? On the Long Bridge of Volantis? The dragons purify nonbelievers by the thousands, burning their sins and flesh away.”
Tyrion/Varys: “Ideally, we’d avoid purifying many non-believers. The Mother of the Dragon has followers from many different faiths.”
Kinvara: “You want your queen to be worshiped and obeyed. And while she’s gone, you want her advisors to be worshiped and obeyed.”
Tyrion: “I’d settle for obeyed.”
Kinvara: “I will summon mummers and appoint priests. They will spread the word. Daenerys has been sent to lead the people against the darkness … for this war, and the Great War yet to come.”
Varys: “That sounds excellent. A man named Stannis Baratheon was appointed as the Chosen One by one of your priestesses. He too had a glorious destiny. He attacked King’s Landing, and was soundly defeated by the man standing beside me. Last I heard, he’d been defeated again. This time at Winterfell … and this time for good.”
*Kinvara turns her head as if responding to a new speaker, implying that Tyrion is the one who speaks the next line*
Tyrion: “We are grateful for any support you can provide the queen during this trying time.”
*Kinvara turns her head back – Varys speaking again?*
Varys: “I suppose it is hard for a fanatic to admit a mistake. Isn’t that the whole point of being a fanatic? You’re always right. Everything is the Lord’s will.”
Kinvara: “Everything is the Lord’s will. Men and women make mistakes … even honest servants of the Lord.”
Varys: “And you? An honest servant of the Lord? Why should I trust you any more than the priestess who counseled Stannis?”
Tyrion: “My friend has a healthy skepticism of religion, but we’re all loyal supporters of the Queen.”
Kinvara: “Everyone is what they are and where they are for a reason. Terrible things happen for a reason. Take what happened to you, Lord [Varys], when you were a child. If not for the mutilation by the second-rate sorcerer, you would not be here, helping the Lord’s Chosen bring light into this world. Knowledge has made you very powerful … but there is still so much you don’t know. Do you remember what you heard, the night the sorcerer tossed your parts into the flames? Should I tell you what the voice said? Should I tell you the name of the one who spoke or where it lives?”
*Kinvara laughs. Clearly, she has successfully unsettled Varys*
Kinvara: “We serve the same queen. If you are a true friend, you have nothing to fear from me.”
*Kinvara turns and departs*
Thanks for the transcription, Jared, and thanks to reader Conan for bringing the video to our attention!
Great catch, guys!
I wonder if we’ll ever see Rila Fukishima’s Priestess character again. I thought she made a pretty sizable impact in her one scene.
Yay for Jared!
I wonder if we’ll ever see Quaithe again. No big deal, but I always figured she had some important secret. Maybe not.
Mr Fixit,
Yeah, transcribing is the worst. Thanks, Jared!
The video was up until just a few minutes ago. It disappeared as I was prepping the post. I have it saved but there’s no point in uploading the video elsewhere- she’ll have it yanked pretty fast. Anyway, her having it taken down is another big point toward it being real material.
Thanks Jared.
Finally the term “One Who Was Promised” is there.It sounds like a fun,really looking forward to this.Meereen/Dothraki and Dany stuff should be really good next season.Dany is AAR (Lord of Light Warrior)/Princess that was promised…no doubt about that now.Don’t know where Jon fits into this,because he’s somehow important to Lord of Light.
How about three-headed dragon,that is pretty important too,but show never mentioned it.Some hints are there,but i would like to hear that too.Btw she’s really like Mel or that Priestess in Volantis hot damn…fu*k White Walkers…I’m R’hllor believer. 😀
Red priestesses are just creepy
Reads like real dialogue. I’m buying it.
Pretty cool…
And her knowing about Varys and letting Tyrion and Varys know just how much detail about how Varys lost his “parts” shows just how powerful her visions are when peering into the flames.
When Varys told Tyrion about this while opening up that box with the wizard in it, didn’t he say something about how he never told anyone…
So this Priestess, just like the red witch, definitely can see shit inside the flame.
Guess we will just have to wait to find out how powerful her visions are when looking to see future events, because she definitely nails the “past events” flame watching.
This character would make a cool replacement for Benerro – I like the idea that the Red Religion is a female dominated work place.
So close! Well, thanks to Jared I could see the scene in my head. 😉 Only a few days ago I was looking for auditions on Vimeo, lets hope more get found!
i’m over here all “eeeeeeeeek! season 6 sneak peek!” just like any other respectable 30 year old man.
nice work guys; a juicy morsel indeed.
Wow Season 6 spoilers already… That was an interesting read. I didn’t think it was well written, but I guess it depends how it’ll be played. Seems stupid to have Varys questioning the Red-Priestess considering:
Andrew,
I posted this in the other casting thread, but I’ll comment here too.
Rila Fukushima was cast in NBC’s upcoming marital arts drama called Warrior. She may be too busy to be on Thrones again….
Abyss,
Yeah me too, didn’t find a thing. Hers was labeled “GofT” so it wouldn’t have popped up under a search for Thrones or something more blatant.
wizardeyes,
She could also stand in for Moqorro is some respects, or what role he might take on in TWOW.
You’re welcome, guys! I’m just happy that Sue is confident enough in the legitimacy of this leaked audition to share it with the fandom as a whole. It’s a shame that the video was taken down, but also entirely predictable. At least I didn’t type it all out for nothing! 🙂
We should all extend our sincere thanks to fellow WOTW reader Conan, who provided the link to the video last night in the comment section of the casting post. If he or she hadn’t brought the video to the attention of this community, it might have been taken down before anyone could record what happened in the scene.
Also, my sincere apologies for any minor mistakes I may have made in transcribing the dialogue or ascertaining the identity of the speaker. Like the previous audition videos for Styr and Obara, having one person read all of the other roles in the scene can be confusing at times. In some cases, it was easy to decipher which character Kinvara was speaking too based on context, but there were a few lines where I had to just throw up my hands and guess.
Andrew,
As Darquemode mentioned, Rila Fukushima’s potential return to the series will likely be contingent on her schedule. She’s a relatively well-known actress, and she works fairly regularly. If she has a job on another series, that may preclude her from returning to Croatia or Belfast to film Game of Thrones.
However, within the context of the show, the door is certainly open for her to come back. Kinvara mentions that she intends to bring additional Red Priests and Priestesses to Meereen to help spread the word about Dany. Having Fukushima’s character return (and share another glance with Tyrion) would be a nice bit of continuity.
Seems like this scene would appear in the first episodes.. because I would make sense if it were one of the first moves from Tyrion as the ruler of Meereen. Anyway I think it’s damn cool that the two are ending to rule Daenerys’ city, it brings her storyline much more connection with the rest of the characters’
And.. thank you Jared and Sue !
Hey, hey… This must be the first time “mummer” has been used on the show!
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Well, in the books, she sees but misinterprets/denies.
Innnnteresting. Dany being called The One Who was Promised…. the way the show is going, doesn’t it kind of seem like they’re setting up false expectations? Having a religious leader calling people The Chosen One (Stannis, now Dany) often yields to failure through that certitude.
I think Dany has a huge part to play in the war to come, but I don’t think she’s AA.
There is definitely shades of Mel in her performance.
I read the transcript first, and saw the scene slightly different in my head. I was thinking she would exude a little more power and boldness. Maybe be a little less subtle and submissive (kind of like how people knock Halle Berry for her version of Storm in the X-men franchise), making the audience doubt if she she will agree to help based on the first half of the scene.
Just my thoughts, but I’ve never really acted or produced a TV show so, whatever.
Sees casting news. Sees new actress cast. Sees the perfect actress for Arianne. Gets hopes up. Eagerly clicks the article…
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Mel did make advances to Jon. Something we have only seen her do with people of Kingsblood. However, I suppose just being of Stark-decent ties him to Robb, King of the North.
Chríss,
I don’t think anything implied that she was cast, just an audition.
The ship carrying Arianne’s potential TV relevance sailed away many months ago.
The Fire Religion is more interesting than another angry Dornishwoman anyway.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
what she really doesnt see or interpret correctly is everytime she sees something about dany or anything related to dany she just ignores it and misunderstand that for someone else
I know, I know. But I hope.
PS – Arianne isn’t just some angry Dornish woman. She’s the backbone of the Dornish plot, and her absence is the reason Dorne has so spectacularly failed. Well, that and everything else.
Trystane’s video leaked, I think. If I’m wrong, someone correct me, please.
Nadia,
I wonder about that too…
It may come down to a matter of timing of the reveal with the last reveal being the accurate one, much like the last clue discovered leading to the right suspect in many mysteries.
If they reveal Dany as TOWWP next season is that the final play or is there still enough time for them to show her as a red herring and discover the real identity of TOWWP? I would guess there is still time… Then again I may be biased since I’ve always felt like you, she’s important but not The One.
*Shrug*
I don’t think that’s the case, even though I stated it’s stupid of Varys to question her above. Don’t forget Varys and Tyrion here are just “using her and her religion”… Varys doesn’t believe in the Prince that was Promised theory, he believes in MAKING a prince/princess that is a saviour (molding that person into having the attributes of AA, as opposed to finding AA)… So if the “faith” begins to influence Danaerys in anyway that is against the plans of Varys, he will make it clear that it’s bullshit.
What’s interesting is what will happen when/if Jorah returns with/without Dany. Varys did send an assassin which Jorah stopped.
The Stannis mention makes me think he’s alive. The way it’s phrased is too… obvious, maybe… “Last I heard… this time for good…”
Sure.
Thank you so much, Conan and Jared!
I am really excited to see this potential scene and I am now really looking forward to the Meereen storyline next season, especially with Varys and Tyrion in this scene. Sounds exciting. Hopefully Arya lands there soon too, with her joining the mummer’s band.
I have read much about the three-headed dragon on the interwebs, but aside from the fact that there are three dragons in the show, nothing about a three-headed DRAGON. Also, there has always been a very clear importance placed on DROGON in the show; he has had much more screentime than his siblings. So no idea where the show is going with all three dragons. I am starting to doubt what I had imagined in my head, but I still believe that at the end of the series, there will be three riders of Targ blood on three dragons raining fire on the WWs. 😀
Personally I’ve always thought AAR or The One That Was Promised, as it now is, was going to be three people instead of just the one. The dragon has three heads etc. Why does it need to be just Jon or just Dany?
You’ve done it again, WotW. 🙂
Thanks a lot guys and it’s funny that haters started it already
Yep! Recent events have started me to think along these lines too. Mel (and a large group of readers, 😉 ) may have read the signs in the fire wrong. Same with the Red Priestess on Volantis, who looked at Tyrion very funny, as if she was seeing something. Imagine if Red Mel could lay her hands on Tyrion – I wonder if she would have tried to sacrifice Tyrion and he would have popped back out of the fire each time. 😀
I think what throws Red Mel and a lot of people off track is that Daenerys is a woman, when they are clearly expecting a man. But in the G0T world, isn’t the Sun a lady?
Nadia,
and who do you think AA
Dany fulfilled the prophecy even before we come to know it ..i will just list all the points in ADWD alone that shows dany is the AA
Mel and jon conversation where she tells DRagonstone is the place amidst salt and smoke and so stannis is the AA …but jon thinks himself stannis is Lord of Dragonstone but did not born there
Tyrion asking who is the savior and Illyrio mention ” A dragon with three heads ”
Xaro Xahn Daxos calling the dragons as Flaming sword in the skies
Jon reading a Tale about AA fighting a monster and when he thrust the lightbringer the Monster’s face was burst into flames and eyes melting down …
we have dany kill Kraznys with DRogon and his face burst into blames and his eyes melting down
And not to Forget she is the slayer of the lies where one of the lies is Stannis being AAR
Mel sees the Dany and her dragons but keep misinterpreting those visions
these are in ADWD alone if i go into other four books we may need seperate article for those
jon will have a part to play in the end game but he is not AA/TpTWp
I always thought the prophecy itself was a red herring. After all, Daenerys’ son was meant to rule the world and he was (probably) stillborn. I figured the series was about trusting people, not magic. Dunno though.
outdoorcats,
Kinvara is both Benerro and Moqorro. In the books, the High Priest of Volantis is Benerro, but he does not travel to Meereen to seek audience with Daenerys. Instead, he sends Moqorro, who is one of his underlings. So Kinvara is technically taking the place of Benerro, in that she inherits his title, but practically —in terms of her use to the narrative— she is taking the place of Moqorro.
As I said in the other article, this is quite exciting! I hope we see more of this kind of thing going forward 🙂
Darquemode,
the mystery never was who is AA/TPTWP but what are the three heads of the dragon
just remember that in HArry Potter Dumbledore reveals Harry is the chosen one at the end of fifth book OOTP and we had two more books to go HalfBloodPrince and DeathlyHallows
we have Aemon and Moqorro claiming that dany is Tptwp/AAR at the end of the fifth book as well (i consider AFFC and ADWD as a single book) and we will have another TWo books to go
and to people who think that dany will embrace the RHLor …remember Dany will also be called as TSWMTW in the next book which means she will also have a Dothraki who worships other gods ..
dany will not take into a single religion but she will be a force that unite different people with different cultures into one under her banner
Lastly., Dany is AAR /TPTWP has more evidence than R+L=J
Awesome! I’m loving Tyrion and Varys ruling in Meereen
Lionthing,
Prophecies are not red herring but interpretations may be wrong ..
A Male dominant society like Dothraki’s will never think about a girl uniting the Khalasar under her ….SO when Dosh khaleen saw dany and got afraid one can say that she misinterpreted it is Rhaego than dany who will be TSWMTW..
MMd trying to stop TSWMTW helps birthing dragons and dany’s rebirth
and another one i forget from ADWD is
ILLyrio mentions dany a small girl afraid from illyrio’s mansion was reborn as dragon amidst salt and smoke to tyrion
Tori Targaryen,
It doesn’t. It makes perfect sense that there might be more than one “savior” out there to lead the charge against the Others, and Jon and Dany are definitely two of them (who could the third be though?).
Anyway, Tyrion is playing with fire (no pun intended) a bit here, collaborating with with Red Temple. The servants of the Red God have shown themselves to be very cunning and manipulative, and a priest or priestess might end up on Dany’s council soon enough. Kinvara’s last line also calls back to the finale when Varys tells Tyrion to figure which of his friends aren’t his friends. I hope this doesn’t backfire on him and Dany.
She looks almost exactly like what I pictured AriAnne Martell to look like…
Oh what could have been.
Tori Targaryen,
the key is ” the DRAGON has three heads ” instead of Dragons have three heads …
when i finished reading the books first time i was thinking that jon will ride Rhaegal and tyrion will ride Viserion and Dany drogon becomes three head of the dragons
but upon various rereads i turned into a believer that dany is the three headed Dragon ( AAR/TPTWP/TSWMTW ) or (drogon.,Rhaegal .,Viserian) mainly because Dany is the LAst Dragon
and she is daughter of death(surprise each one of them viserys ., rhaego and Rhaegar has been believed to be AAR/TPTWP/TSWMTW) and she reborn from stone as a dragon and becomes what they never were and names her dragons after them
bride of fire and slayer of lies and Mother of dragons
so much threes in dany’s life which cant be just a coincidence
dragonbringer,
Am i the only one that hates the prophecies in these books,it’s that one cliche that i feel that unfortunately Martin kept from usual fantasy trope . I wouldn’t have minded if they didn’t start to get overused especially in the last books to the point that i feel kinda spoiled,some may say these is brilliant foreshadowing,i say it’s lazy storytelling .
She does not look remotely like Gilda Radner. 😉
“Born amidst salt and smoke. Is [s]he a ham?” 🙂
I was skeptical last night as to whether this was legit, but it seems I was wrong. I always go the skeptical route, at first (I didn’t believe “Benjen” in the “previously on” was legitimate until I saw it air).
If I recall, then it comes up only once in the books, too, and it has not come up again since then. However, given the way that B&W operate, it will not come up in the shows until it is relevant to the story being told that season.
I’d prefer it if she was an older character, like the Green Grace. How come every R’hllor priestess is a hot woman? And isn’t she too young to be “High Priestess of the Red Temple of Volantis”?
JonSnow25,
i like magic and prophecies and mysteries stuff more …i started to look into forums and such only too see if anyone as found out about Rhaegar and Lyanna are the parents of Jon and what others thought about HOTU prophecies
they are defintely overused in the last two books to the point where fans of certain main character started calling another main character as red herring and the whole point of that character is to deliver the dragons to their favorite character and melt away
The only thing IMO in ASOIAF which salvages them are that there are enough that are probably baloney that you can neither take them as certain nor dismiss them. I definitely am not keen on a prophecy used as the entire basis for a books series such as David Eddings’ Belgariad ( though they are a fun light read).
To be fair I didn’t recognise the ones which came true in ASOIAF until the second time I read the books through to ADWD.
This may be a little off topic, but wasn’t Varamyr Sixskins on the casting sheets leaked last year? Or at least a warging wildling.
Wimsey,
A dance with Dragons
One of my top things to look forward to in S6.
Every one that they would send out to seduce the world would be.
Wimsey,
They should have sent one of them to Robert instead of Thoros of Myr..and now westeros would have been following RED god
if stannis who wants the brothels can fall for MEL imagine Robert who likes to fuck the boars and hunt the whores or its other way around
If this leaked online with actual script pages…safe to say she’s not getting the role.
Martín L.,
Martín L.,
Being young and looking young are relative though. Mel looks younger than she is given she’s very old in the books. And Carice mentioned to the Cressen actor that Mel was 400 years old.
JonSnow25,
No, I don’t like them either.
I’m not a huge fan of the prophecies. Although who knows how Martin will play with them. I hope we get multiple savior figures and/or better yet leave it ambiguous.
dragonbringer,
Right, and the Targaryen sigil is a three-headed dragon. So, whay Illyrio is saying is that the savior is a Targaryen. The part about a promised “one” requiring three people comes up only when Rhaegar dubs Aegon as the Prince that was promised, but then states that there must be one more because the Dragon has three heads. I think that this is the only place that it comes up.
Even Aemon doesn’t discuss this. When he tells Sam why he didn’t think of Daeny being the Prince that was promised, he stated that he was looking for a Prince: and that he had forgotten that dragons are (or can be) hermaphroditic.
Now, I think that this will be important in the books: but it will have to be revisited. Given that the show hangs Chekhovian Guns on the wall for each season only if they are fired that season, this will not be on the show until it is important. (Of course, that would be this year or next!)
Ragman’s Harbor,
She probably became Karsi, the chieftainess at Hardhome.
I will be sorely disappointed if they do not vacate the place quickly! Meereen served many purposes, but I think that it is time to move forward. Get Daeny et al. back to Westeros!
i’m sure this is a longshot, because GRRM has to hold to the conventions of fantasy at least somewhat, but I think it would be great if all the AA/PtwP stuff just turns out to be meaningless bullshit and in the end the last hope for humanity is people like Arya, Bran, and Tyrion who have spent their time learning meaningful skills…
On the other hand, I don’t like that idea because it makes it a lot easier for Jon to stay dead and if he is dead then, oh whoops, a massive chunk of the backstory stuff in the books is totally meaningless now.
Ah, but the problem is that they also probably knew that Robert’s attention span where women are concerned would require a bucket of Adderall a day to cure. (OK, that is hyperbole: even that would not help.) However, Robert seems to keep his drinking buddies around for much longer than he keeps his girlfriends!
For what it’s worth (it may mean nothing at all), that actress has at least 2 other auditions in her viemo page with the same background (white-painted brick wall).
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It doesn’t seem to be a GoT specific casting location. Although I guess it could be a room at an agent or production company used for auditions for different projects.
I’m not a fan of Mereen (I honestly don’t know why Tyrion and Varys are staying there except…Dany wants them to?), but I am a fan of Tyrion/Varys show, and any mention of the Sorcerer in Varys’s back story (still creeped out by that scene in S3), has my attention.
We saw Kristian Nairn’s initial video he did for Hodor online before he got the part.
I’ve been wondering that.
I’m guessing he was meant to be at Hardhome but was dropped. I believe we were told that Karsi’s character was male in the original script but later changed. It could be that was originally Varamyr but they then decided not to introduce another Warg (until later anyway).
Perhaps he put them in because he knew he’d take 40 years to finish the series and they give us readers something to chew on in the meantime
Wimsey,
Aemon does mention about dragon having three heads and he is too old to be one of them before dying
and we also have dany wondering who the other two heads will be in most times
i believe that Rhaegar and Aemon and Dany are wrong about three persons being three heads instead of one being the three headed dragon
just remembered the undying where calling at dany Mother of dragons and three heads as the dragon and drink from cup of fire and drink from ice ..
There has to be some truth to the prophecies and visions related to the Lord of Light and his servants. They do see things in the flames that turn out to be true somehow, even if it’s not always in the way the servant first believes. It also seems the Lord of Light himself might exist in some form or another, especially when you consider Thoros being able to resurrect Beric without even intending to. He said a half-hearted prayer to R’hllor, and R’hllor answered.
Beyond that, I do think most prophecies are just bullshit. A lot of people spend time analyzing Patchface’s “prophecies”, but other than the Red Wedding I think most of what Patchface says is just nonsense. I guess we’ll see.
Ah, I think that the problem is that people are looking for AA to be some god-like entity. AA is just going to be some person or trio of greatness (but human greatness) that are the single biggest factor(s) in the Great War. Like AA of old, they will subsequently be deified: but the apotheosis will happen in the future, not in the tale.
So if Dany is going to Herald the Lord of Light in Westeros who will the Faith Militan Back if not Aegon? They need a champion. This show better not make Dany loved with Dothraki and Red Priests in her midst.
Wimsey,
They’ll probably spend at least a few episodes there. At least. I expect Dany to begin marching west (followed by her council, her Unsullied and Second Sons, and and the greatest khalasar ever; leaving a Meereen in flames behind) halfway through the season, and arrive in King’s Landing by the end, only to find the city in Winter and burnt to a crisp with wildfire by a maddened Cersei —that is, what Dany saw in her vision of the House of the Undying in the show; a snowed-in and also crumbling Iron Throne room. Somehow, Dany will receive the news of the White Walkers bringing the Wall down and/or marching into the Seven Kingdoms, and that’s where we will leave them off until the last season.
At least, that’s my speculation.
Did he? I had forgotten! OK, that is the 2nd mention then.
Yes, R’hllor is something real, something powerful, and very probably something very nasty. And it is something that humans might just as well call a god. The question that people haven’t been asking is: what are its motives? GRRM said long, long ago that the Others (White Walkers) had motives and that understanding this motives would be very important in the end. However, nobody seems to have asked him the same questions about R’hllor. Those questions certainly are worth asking: and my bet is that the primary characters are going to be instrumental in puzzling out the why’s of both the Walkers and R’hllor.
Robb Snow,
the funny thing about PatchFace prophecy is
when MEl tells the tale of AA and lightbringer and Stannis draws (F)lightbringer from the fire
patchface sings “under the sea the the colors of fire are black green and blue ” which happens to be the colors of Drogon Rhegal and viserian’s fires
Wimsey,
yes he mentions to SAm that dragon has three heads and he is too old and cant help dany
it happens in AFFC so i think i understand why you may have forgotten about that part
Oh wow! Nice job Jared and whoever caught the Vimeo vid!!! *applause* The dialog is pretty neat. I like the fact they show how insecure Varys & Tyrion really are on the Meereen situation rather than show them directly wheeling and dealing.
Also it is interesting they would contact a R’hllor priestess. Gods of Ghis were the religion in the books, but it looks like the Red God is favored for the show and for a good reason: there is not much else they can do to introduce Dany’s the
Also let’s everyone know that Mel is not completely a fake, which is what one would normally think considering her Stannis Chosen One failure. Excellent idea actually!
I agree that the folks gathering in Meereen are starting to remind me a lot of King’s Landing politics! They all have different agendas, and many are suspicious of each other. I am sure Joarh and Daario will be back soon too. Imagine: Jorah just wants Daeny. Daario wants to be her lover. Tyrion and Varys want to rule like they did as a team in KL. And yes, Tyrion is walking down a very dangerous path, collaborating with religious fanatics, all because he wants to serve Daeny well and because he thinks he knows what she wants. The Red Priests (and their mummers, I guess) want to only serve their God, and burn, burn everyone else (not much tolerance there, as we know from our Red Mel). It’s a terrible MESS! What interests me is in seeing how Daeny (and her three kids, lol) will deal with all of these people. Daeny doesn’t believe singlemindedly in R’hllor’s religion and she’s certainly not religious at all. She wants to “break the wheel”, not reinvent it. Etc. So how will she deal with what’s brewing in KL?
I hope this is where her time back again with the Dothraki will clear her head and set her on her true path. Because the Dothraki don’t believe in politicking! 😀
Not a book reader so I don’t have all the literary evidence, but I always thought show prophecies were meant to suggest whatever the character speaking/hearing them wanted them to mean. I’m referring to the red comet in S2, which the show had interpreted differently by different characters. And Melisandre always, kinda, you know not reading prophecies correctly. I just thought the point of them was that there are blanks and they’re filled in by individual prejudices and desires.
Willful amnesia, I think that it is called! (Plus I haven’t read it in 10 years…) But now that you mention it, I do recall Aemon mentioning that he and Rhaegar had discussed that part of the prophecy. I also seem to recall that this was a bit veiled at the time because Sam (the POV character) had no idea what Aemon was on about (wasn’t Aemon delirious at the time?) and thus he doesn’t dwell on it or ask Aemon to clarify anything.
And that is key. It really has to be done in the season where it is relevant. Heck, if they are going into flashback mode, then maybe Daeny will see this flashback this year courtesy of a Red Priestess.
In the long run, I think all of the prophecies kind of run along the lines predicted by Maester Marwyn (quoting Gorghan of Old Ghis). I won’t quote it here because I think I’ve done it before in another thread and besides it’s kind of, shall we say indelicate. But the gist of it is that prophecies are treacherous and it is kind of dangerous to base your actions on them.
Regarding Patchface, I think he also said something relative to the poision being concealed in Sansa’s hairnet.
Other prophecies which I wouldn’t consider bullshit are Maggie the Frog, the Ghost of High Heart, House of Undying, maybe Quaithe, Jojen and probably some others that I am forgetting.
Wimsey,
I agree that there’s something very sinister about R’hllor, as well as most of his servants. His servants take an extreme “ends justify the means” approach to their work, using things like deceit, murder, blood magic, and human sacrifice to do what they believe is the will of their god. I find it difficult to trust any of them which is why I’m a little concerned about Tyrion’s collaboration with the Red Temple. They’re likely to try to find favor with Dany herself, and exercise their influence on her in the same way Mel did Stannis. I hope Dany will be smarter than that.
Wimsey,
well you seem to getting back the memories and ofcourse right
the show will start talking about the prophecy in next season which i am sure about and maybe even have a Rhaegar vision ..
but they already showed the three heads of dragon in HOTU in season 2 http://img.pandawhale.com/34180-Daenerys-Targaryen-Baby-Dragon-cIbV.gif
Dolorous Methuselah,
How can you forget OLD NAN in her we must put our trust
lasfnljadkzbclkS C
Excite overload
IMO In the books AA/TPtwP will be Three People each of whom will bring something vital (aka Lightbringer) to the defeat of the Others
Dany – Lightbringer = Dragons
Jon – Lightbringer = The Night’s Watch (reforged).
A. N Other – Lightbringer = ????
A.N. Other is not an Other (just in case anyone was confused).
A.N.Other is probably Tyrion or Bran but could be someone else (Stannis maybe).
Bran does seem like a possible candidate, especially since his teacher is
Robb Snow,
How would that teacher know anything about that topic? He never would have encountered the species in question. At any rate, Bran isn’t going anywhere anymore: his job will be more in what we might call communications, I should think!
dragonbringer,
I think you’re just wrong as reading Dany as the fulfillment of every prophecy, so much so that she doesn’t need anyone else. That’s just not GRRM’s way, and I’d be shocked and disappointed if that was the answer.
She will play a huge part, but she will not be the only one, and she won’t be the embodiment of every single prophesy, nor will they all turn out to be true/fulfilled.
🙂 I’ve always thought about Old Nan more as a storyteller and someone who passed down wisdom and knowledge from the past than as a prophet.
Although I DO hope that the reference to “Housemaid” in the last casting call is Old Nan from a flashback and the father is Ned’s dad.
The Lord of Light is a babe-magnet.
“Do you remember what you heard, the night the sorcerer tossed your parts into the flames? Should I tell you what the voice said? Should I tell you the name of the one who spoke or where it lives?”
Nice throwback there, Kinvara. Looking forward to this scene!
Wimsey,
Perhaps the communications play a part in discovering and developing that ability.
The big issue is the human sacrifice. Burn someone for R’hllor, and it does something for you. Burn someone important, and it does something BIG for you.
This reminds me of animal behavior experiments in which they give monkeys banana pellets for hitting the right levers. Humans hit the burn someone lever, and R’hllor gives the a miracle banana pellet. Color me paranoid, but I just don’t trust someone who wants the monkeys to pull the immolate lever.
Possibly. However, I would be surprised if any wargs are strong enough to control dragons. We shall see! Well, we will if GRRM ever gets around to writing anything….. (Maybe Bran will get an Ice Dragon in on the fight….)
Oh that’s unfortunate. I don’t really know much of her work but I thought she nailed it in that short scene in season 5 (even if she was speaking High Valerian). But then as a jobbing actress she has to be sensible and take a job when she can. If she is a recurrent character or even a star in ‘Warrior’ rather than an occasional character in GoT it is better she take the role that will be kinder to her bank balance.
That actress kinda looks like how I picture Arianne Martell.
This just made me realize that when it comes to GoT I preferred knowing what was probably going to happen next for much of it.
The Pristess: ‘I Will summon mummers and priests. They Will spread the word.’ Hmmmm. Mummers? We have pretty good evidence Arya is following her mummers troup storyline from Winds, with the ‘Leading Actress’ cast. I think that’s quite a strong indication that Arya is heading to Mereen. And why, if not to kill Dany
It should take little imagination to come up with dozens and dozens of reasons. One of those would be, of course, to join Daeny.
And to double the “of course,” we can hardly conclude from this that Arya will go to Meereen. Daeny will be heading west: Arya might well meet her in the middle.
Doesn’t ”The King’s Blood” mean Targaryen blood, and the oly reason Mel was burning Baratheons was because they have few drops of Targaryen blood in their veins….????
Reading this transcript doesn’t give off the vibe of “savior” at all. It gives off the vibe of fanatics who are dangerous and need to be opposed. So if this dialogue is not misdirection and Dany and not someone else is to be the champion of fire…the plot then needs to have a champion of ice to oppose her and that culture.
And it just so happens…well…you know.
Is it wrong of me to hope that she gets cast and there’s some ridiculous reason for her to get naked in the show?
I don’t think anyone thought it was a GoT-specific location. Actors make audition tapes on their own, after their agent gives them the casting info/sides, and then they ssend in the tapes. This is probably just the actress’s home.
I saw the Kinvara audition before it was taken down. I’m afraid I found the actress and her performance rather bland. The Red Priestess in Volantis was much more compelling, in a very short scene too.
Ragman’s Harbor,
Don’t know, but we have of course already seen a wildling warg: Mackenzie Crook’s character Orell , in S3 I think.
Joseph Nobles,
Although Varys said he never told anyone this, the information could have come from the sorcerer.
Wimsey,
I know it’s not a sure case, nothing is. But she could have just said priests. I can see how mummers would be appropriate in spreading the word, but it just seems very fitting, that in the same season Arya joins a mummers troup, mummers are being summoned to Mereen.
A lot of people have been thinking that Arya would be assigned to kill a major character. We all hope Cercei or Walder Frey or someone like that, but GRRM rarely give us what we want, and Dany is just as likely, now that she’s been causing conflict in Slavers Bay.
On the other hand, Your suggestion that Arya could go to Mereen in order to join Dany, however beautiful a thought that may be, is very unlikely. Arya is serving death and darkness now, never forget. The story is not about good and evil, it’s about hot and cold, and while Dany is hot (in more ways than one), The Faceless men are cold, dead.
So if i’m right, and the mummers summoning to Mereen ties into Arya going to Mereen, you theorize that she woulde go there to take up her cause. That’s really not very thought though. She’s being trained as an assassin! The reason arya is joing the mummers troup in the first place, is because she is ordered to by The Faceless Men, so her own Desires would have nothing to o with her going there.
No, no. If Arya is heading to Mereen, i will be for her to kill someone. It might not be Dany, but she’s the most likely cadidate. And of course, ultimately, Arya could choose not to go ahead with the order.
This is how Sophie and Maisie got cast. Their homemade audition tapes are on the internet somewhere. Someone spliced them together to make one conversation.
Damphairintheshowplease!,
I still want some clue as to what Melisandre meant in S3 when she looked into Arya’s eyes and said , “We will meet again.” Unless that was another Melisandre “oops, misread that, too” moment.
Conan,
Jaime and Brienne are both lesser AA candidates, remember the dream sequence from the books where they had flaming swords?
Anyway, I think that this series isn’t the kind of story where any single character is the chosen one. I think that it will never be revealed or confirmed outright that anyone is AA. I think both Dany and Jon will be obvious candidates, and maybe a few other characters as well, maybe even Tyrion in his own way (there are immense parallels between him, Dany and Jon). It’s also possible that three AAs will be the three heads of the dragon.
I never have ascribed to that conjecture. I think it particularly implausible that the Faceless Men would send a relatively young member on such a mission. I do think that Arya will end up with Daeny: but I expect through very different means. After all, I expect next season and next book to tell a story about choosing sides.
I also reject the conclusion that Arya is “serving death and darkness”: that is much too simplistic a viewpoint. Arya has an agenda, to be certain: and when push comes to shove, Arya is never going to become “no-one”: she will always be Arya Stark.
By the way this Kovira Kovina Kock Merchant person seems like the show’s answer to Moqorro.
All the info that has been available until now together with the necessary deductions from seanon’s finale point to the fact that a great deal of the material of the next season will heavily be based on the already pubished material. It seems that at least half of the season could be a doggie bag from the last two books which in turn leaves the other half to be possibly based on TWoW.
dothrakian raven,
Yeah….that’s not going to happen,i know you and others are still and denial but the show has passed the books already,whatever leftovers aren’t even enough fro one episode let alone half a season,also in case you didn’t know,the show ends in season 7 .
Doug,
Yep. Ice has the Night’s King. The whole show is building to Dany vs. the White Walkers for the fate of humanity.
(*Avoids a mass of sharp objects hurled my way*)
Wimsey,
I agree she will never truly become no one. But as it stands now, she DOES serve them. And they serve death. It’s not too simpel, Their god is death.
JonSnow25,
I am not in denial because I am not a book reader… And frankly the material that is available so far is not staff for one episode if you try to make a picture of it. The left overs from the finale and the left overs from the books could easily amount to 4-5 episodes. If it is so there is little room left for a culmination of the season with hard core material from the TWoW. Then it is only one season for the completion. As it is now in my mind it just does not add up…
dothrakian raven,
That’s just not true. They’re bringing back a few elements from books 4 and 5 and weaving them into TWOW storylines, not the other way around.
All the storylines are caught up, pretty much.
Cersei: her arc next season is going to focus on the trial, most likely, and I’m guessing she’ll open a war against Dorne
Sansa and Theon: god knows what they’ll be doing next season, but it’s certainly not going to be retreading books 4 and 5.
Bran: he has one chapter of material left and he’s coming back in a big way, that won’t be enough for a season
Dany: entirely TWOW material with the Dothraki
Tyrion: ruling Meereen with Varys, entirely TWOW and original stuff
Jon: dead, at the same point as the books
Dorne: it has pretty much outpaced the books at this point, since a war with the crown is certain now. The only thing they have yet to cover is Doran’s speech.
The storylines that are behind and need a few episides of catch-up are
Sam: he needs to get to Oldtown and drop Gilly and baby Sam at Horn Hill. That could take 3-5 episodes.
Arya: she has the blind arc and the actress arc from the books left for her, but both are very quickly handeled in the books and I inagine the same will be true in the show
Jaime: since they’re doing entirely different stuff, it’s possible he’ll be heading for the Riverlands next season. But if that happens, it won’t be to lift a siege so it’s hard to say that it’ll be based on the books.
The Iron Islands: I think they’ll rush this storyline to TWOW material to up the tension
jentario,
I take it you haven’t read the thread? A bunch of people have already said that. 🙂
I don’t really care much about the distinction right now when we have so little distinction but for the purposes of this scene we have, she’s being presented as the equivalent of Benerro, the High Priest of Volantis. I think of Moqorro more in terms of his connection to
When I first saw the casting call, it looked to me like they had to replace Rila Fukushima, and I’m sure this was what she was supposed to do but got too busy. That’s too bad, I liked her style.
Grandmaester Flash,
I agree with your assessment of her reading.
Damphairintheshowplease!,
I realize you’re just speculating, but my speculation is just because
ON the other hand, you could, of course, be correct, which is the fun of speculation. 🙂
Dany is mother of dragons… Maybe its Drogon gonna rule the world
jentario,
Jamie in Riverlands. Dorne and its famous speeches that haven’t happened yet , the North Remembers plot, the ToJ, Old Town & the Tarly’s, KL Cersei + Marg + Tommen triangle, Arya’s finishing from Braavos + all the unfinished Northern plots: Sansa + Theon, Davos + Mel + Tormund at the Wall. All this seems to make up a great deal of material for 4-5 eps. And then it is just 1 & 1/2 season left….
Surprised that I’m the only one thinking this may be a recast for Quaithe. She is already present in the story, is a shadowbinder from Asshai (just like Mel) and uses the very same ‘fire made flesh’ line and has similar powers of ‘knowing things’ that this character displays. Would be an easy recast due to the mask and Quaithe has already been giving cryptic advice and warnings to Dany so giving her some of Moqurro and Beneverros roles would be a natural extension. It’s a character that the viewers wouldn’t find hard to remember as she was very distinctive and it makes good use of already existing characters.
Yes shes got a different name but that may be because of them tring to keep it under wraps. I believe in the video Varys was referred to as Lord Rennar or something?
My be personal preference as I found Quaithe an intriguing character in the books but would be nice if she again fond a place on the show.
Sue the Fury,
I think Moqorro will eventually serve Dany, so that’s why I think she’s similar. Possibly a combination of Benerro and Moqorro.
By the way, was there any indication to how many episodes she’ll be in? Because this seems like a major role.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Quaithe being the High Priestess of the Red Temple of Volantis? Really?
RBloodworth,
It’s more likely living against dead.If we’re going by characters Dany,Tyrion and Jon.It feels like this is their destiny.To fight them together and lead people against this threat.I will be very dissapointed,if it’s only Dany.We’ll see about Jon’s fate,but he could be there too.Chances are big.
dothrakian raven,
You’re using big words that make no sense.
Cersei/Tommen/Margery triangle? THAT can hold half a season? Nope. There will be at least one trial, if not both of the trials (if Loras is exonorated so is Margery). So that’s a major TWOW spoiler early next season.
Then you list Sansa and Theon as if there’s anything whatsoever in the books left for them to do (and there isn’t- last we saw Theon and Jeyne in the books they were with Stannis).
Jaime in the Riverlands is pure speculation at this point. “Dorne and its speeches” amounts to exactly one episode’s worth of material, and it seems like Ellaria forced a war onto Dorne which is yet another major development that will set TWOW events into motion. It’s also safe to assume that if Jon ever gets resurrected, it’ll be early next season. Which is probably the biggest TWOW spoiler.
Season 6 is 80% TWOW.
dothrakian raven,
First of all,i don’t know why you are assuming they are doing Jaime’s arc in the Riverlands,wtf is he even going to do in the Riverlands,like oh my daughter just died,time to wander the Riverlands because why the fuck not,Doran’s speech and btw it’s only one (if there is even a speech at all,but i doubt it) takes 5 minutes at most, the Toj thing is not confirmed and even if it was it would only take a few minutes at most, the North Remembers plot isn’t even going to be the same as the books,Sam and Gilly takes 2-3 episodes at most because no one cares about those characters on their own story,sorry Sam and Gilly fans,and all the rest are pretty much passed the books so i don’t even know why you brought them up .
Edit:Ok maybe i was a bit harsh saying nobody cares about Sam and Gilly,but have you seen the unsullied reactions to their scenes back in season 3 when they were on their own,hell even this season plenty of people were bored whenever they were on the screen,i think this is one of those things that work on the books but not in the show .
jentario,
I am not saying that you are wrong (you know better) but it seems as if most of the S6 related posts and discussions about them refer to book material. I got scared that is all as I am more than glad for a terra incongnita S6 🙂
JonSnow25,
You are overexagerating. I was not bored with them neither in S3 nor in S5.
JonSnow25,
Honestly, I was bored by Sam most of the series run,but he’s grown on me lately (as has/had Jon, frankly). As a show only person, most of the Wall stuff was pretty uninteresting until about S3 when Ygritte showed up and Sam killed the WW. Lately, Sam’s gotten more endearing (also I’ve always liked Gilly). You are correct, though, that they’re not A characters. Nobody is going to tune in to see them as the focus of the drama.
I doubt there is a true AA in this story. The Red Priests like to attach themselves to powerful figures and then manipulate them to whatever end. Wouldn’t be surprised if we have both Jon and Dany spoken of as the “chosen ones” this season.
It appears that in the show story, the Red God ran out of use for Stannis once he got his daughter. Her sacrifice may be used to bring Jon back, and after having come back, Jon will be easier to manipulate, being in debt to the Red God.
Luka Nieto,
Less believable than dragons, wights and giants? What’s the major issue? We know very little about her in the books and not much more from the show. This character is either one we’ve not been introduced to before ( either because they’ve not featured in the books yet or they’ve been made for the show) or one made up to be a proxy for other characters who aren’t featuring for whatever reason. Seeing as we don’t know what , if any, role Quaithe plays in the future is it so unreasonable to think she still has an important hand left in Dany’s plot?
Plus there’s a possibility they could have changed the name of whatever city they’ve come from to Volantis to try and throw people off the scent as they appear to have done with Varys’ name.
TheTouchOfFrost,
I’m wondering if the new priestess may be Quaithe, Benerro, and Moqorro all rolled into one character. All 3 parts seem to be fairly small (admittedly I don’t know where the future books take them)…. With how the series streamlines everything, has apparently cut Victarion, and often fails to hold onto its minor character actors from past seasons I can see them using one new priestess to cover any needed material from the 3 roles..
Darquemode,
Is Rila’s Tatsu/Katana arc on Arrow finished as well?
I have a different idea. Arya heads to Meereen and there, she learns that Daenerys is headed to Westeros at some point. So Arya being Arya, immediately abandons any directives from the FM and decides to join Daeny’s team so she can slip into Westeros unnoticed but protected by a big group, and then use the opportunity to cross people off her list. She may even end up going to the Wall with part of Daeny’s team, where she meets Red Mel again, as foretold before.
Joshua Atreides,
I haven’t read anything about her role on Arrow honestly…
I do know that the new season of Arrow will have a time jump beginning a few months after the finale…. I personally doubt that Tatsu will still be in Starling City.
*Shrug*
After that brutal character rape and assassination, if there is anyone who deserves a redemption arc, it is Stannis. I want to believe!
(Of course, he’s almost certainly dead dead).
TheTouchOfFrost,
If they want to bring the character Quaithe back it is best to bring her as Quaithe and not as Kinvara. I am actually disappointed by the way they treated Quaithe in S2. They made an effort to present us with a very intriguing character only to have her briefly relevant in Jorah’s story to no effect. But was she a red priestess? At the same time I do not know what is the possible gain from a parade of red priestesses here and there.
dothrakian raven,
I would rather Quaithe return as well.. I like continuity that way I guess.
What’s left for Quaithe to do though?
I would think that could be done by someone new or different without any harm being done.
This might be a few days late, but did anyone see the picture of
Anyone know when season 6 filming starts?
Chríss,
Felt the same, except for Taena Merryweather.
Ghost,
Yohn Royce’s actor said he’ll be filming in July so it will begin at least sometime then if not sooner.
From her casting breakdown-
“beautiful, intense, and magnetic” blah blah blah “need an extraordinarily beautiful and charismatic powerful actress with star qualities. A very good part in this season.”
Nothing about the length of the role precisely. From what we’ve seen in the other breakdowns, they would’ve mentioned it if she just had one scene or only a few lines. So this is a “very good part” hinting that she’s in a few episodes in season 6, at least. The exact amount unclear. Could just be a couple, could be a lot.
Darquemode,
That’s the most likely option but I find it strange when they could use a character that they’ve already introduced. If they’re not going to include her at all then why not use her for this? Unless she has a major part to play later in the books but that probably won’t translate over to the show anywho!
dothrakian raven,
We don’t know for certain that Kinerva will be her name or not. They changed Varys’ name in the audition so could have done the same for her? I’m with you on that front. Having very similar priestess characters en masse is odd. It’d be better if they offered a different face of the religion or just used an existing character from it ala Quaithe.
She’s a shadowbinder from Asshai like Melisandre. Although she hasn’t specifically mentioned that she follows R’hllor she does display a lot of similar traits to Melisandre like seeing visions that come true and being able to slip a likeness past guards (like Mel did with her “baby.”) Plus they both wear red ( simple but still!) and have a strong like for fire.
“They shall come day and night to see the wonder that has been born again into the world, and when they see they shall lust. For dragons are fire made flesh, and fire is power.”
Certainly not a stretch that she’s a red priestess who is at least as powerful as Mel…if not more so.
Darquemode,
Reminds me of Babylon 5.
I just hope the answer isn’t like B5’s, where The One turned out to be three people. The One Who Was, the One Who Is, and the One Who Will Be. I love B5, but that was meh. Everything surrounding it was awesome though.
Makes sense. I don’t know anything about the casting process. It could be the show sends out scripts of dilouge or possible dialogue to several people or agencies for reading. I’d think they’d have some kind of non disclose language if it was part of a real script but perhaps not.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Yes, I remember that the pattern of Q’s mask was the same as Mel’s necklace but I thought it was something that had to do with their place of origin and not R’hllor related…
jumpin4smoke,
Aemon is a Targaryen so he should qualify for “King’s Blood”.No interest from Mel in the show.Not sure about the books.
jumpin4smoke,
The founder of House Baratheon was rumoured to be the bastard brotehr of Aegon the Conquerer (the Baratheons were the first House to be loyal to the Targaryens which makes it delisciously poetic that they eventually brought the Targ reign to an end). Although he was a bastard and then married into the Storm Kings family (after he’d killed him) as opposed to the Targs so the blood must be incredibly thinned down by now. That said, if Gendry’s blood was powerful enough to drop 3 kings then if Mel had burnt Brother Aemon the war would be over and everyone would be living happily ever after by now!
jumpin4smoke,
I don’t think so, although I’m not sure. If “King’s Blood” really meant “Targ. blood,” why wouldn’t she have taken Aemon’s? She was right there at the Wall with him, and he was full Targ.
Edit: Well, it looks like Frosty ( I just couldn’t resist, TouchofFrost) and Geralt of Rivia beat me to it.
dothrakian raven,
Hard to say for certain but the link between shadow and light has been mentioned by Mel a lot. Shadowbinders are certainly implied to worship R’hllor as one of his other names is ‘the God of Flame and Shadow’ and they draw their power from fire and dragons much like Red Priests do.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
No worries. That’s actually my nickname in the real world so knock yourself out! 😛
Robert, Stannis and Renly’s grandmother was also a Targaryen, ‘thickening’ the blood of the dragon in that line.
I wish I could understand this convo, as an unsullied, hard to keep up with the deep religion discussion… although, I do think there is more than one chosen one. or should I say I hope there is because Jon needs to be back. He has to come back.
Valaquen,
True but she was one of Egg’s kids and he didn’t marry a sibling so the Targ line was already being diluted there as well! Then again, Eggs and indeed Aemon were both Maekar’s children and he married a Dayne so again the dilution continues! If there was so much power in King’s blood Mel shouldn’t have killed all the other ones off! 😛
reading the books i figured that the blood of Old Varyria that has deep connection with fire and dragons holds power for the red god. targareyans are the only ones left after the doom. right? anyone can become king so what’s the point? in the books, if i remember correctly, jon sends maester aemon with sam and gilly to get him as further away from mel so she doesn’t burn him even though he knows the voyage to old town could very much kill him, and did. have no clue why the show’s mel hasn’t had that idea.
Deesensfan,
Unless D&D change his story it quite a lot,Jon is not finished.Not yet.He will eventually find out about his mother in the books and as a dead man…well hardly.Word from GRRM not mine.Books and show are two separate mediums,but this would be truly a big change.I’m not 100% sure Kit will be back on the show,but let’s hope so. 😉
spacechampion,
I never watched Babylon 5, but that would have annoyed me as well! XD
I guess as far as GOT is concerned, like many I’ve always suspected it would be three people that fit the prophecies (whether or not any single person is “the one”) and those three would be Dany, Jon, and either Tyrion or Jaime. Unlike many, I don’t think Bran’s destiny is connected to any of the Ashai-based prophecies (Azor Ahai/ TPTWWP) that can be connected to R’hllor, I think his destiny is connected to the Old Gods – Not a part of the “Dragon has Three Heads” prophecy.
Admittedly they may not be mutually exclusive…
jumpin4smoke,
Perhaps. Bet she was cursing Joffrey for killing all Robert’s bastards! Maybe we got Robert wrong he was doing his bit by spreading his blood about!
My theory is that the Doom was caused by the White Walkers/Others who were the countrpoint civilisation for the Valyrians. The Doom and the events at Hardhome ( pre-show version) were very similar. Plus looking at the White Walkers armour in the show now it looks like I imagine Valyrian clothing to look like. Plus could Valyrian Steel be so effective against them as it was smithed by Valyrians to specifically be that way?
TheTouchOfFrost,
sorry just double clicked…
Darquemode,
Jaime could be a head of the dragon, the Valonqar and Azor Ahai if he kills Cersei like I suspect he will!
TheTouchOfFrost,
Yep!
If there is a “The One” I think Jaime could be it….
Who would ever suspect that a swordsman that lost his sword hand would be the hero to wield a sword in the final battle? Okay, I guess a number of people might, but it is as good as any way to hide a hero in plain sight. I think that may get him a better entry in the White Book eh? XD
TheTouchOfFrost,
great theory. i agree this could be possible. my point is how can king’s blood have macic properties if any man can become king regardless of his ‘genes’? there must be something that came from valyrians that feeds the red one. dunno, maybe i’m totaly off track but that makes perfect sense in my mind….
The White Walkers were supposedly last seen 1000’s of years before the Valyrian Freehold became a civilization never mind the Doom that happened 5000 years later.
Yes it’s likely Westerosi History is a bit inaccurate and the Long Night was probably less than the 8000 years ago it’s claimed to be but the Doom was only 500 years ago.
If the White Walkers were wandering around 500 years ago there would be something in the History Books about it.
There are lots of Valyrians left, particularly in Essos. If I recall the books correctly, then there are particular places like Volantis and Lys where big segments of the population (particularly the ruling classes) are of largely Valyrian descent. Don’t the books state someplace that Robert’s and Stannis’ parents died on a trip back from one of those places trying to arrange a marriage for Rhaegar with a Valyrian family?
We even read in GRRM’s (very long) short story in Dangerous Women that there was at least one other Valyrian house in Westeros, living in Westeros. They are still around come Thrones: Aurane Waters (who steals Cersei’s navy) is a bastard of that house and has strong Valyrian features.
One, that is hardly true. Second, killing a king is exactly the point, and it tells us a lot about R’hllor. And both are important. Kings are central figures of authority: either they are born to it, or they are “great” men who seize the power. It seems that R’hllor not only rewards sacrifices, but it dolls out bigger banana pellets when the monkeys sacrifice one of their alphas. This is consistent with R’hllor not wanting the monkeys to have alphas.
At any rate, it almost certainly has nothing to do with Valyrian ancestry. The Red Church would have learned long ago that burning Essosian nobility of Valyrian ancestry would generate bigger banana pellets than burning Essosian nobility of non-Valyrian ancestry. And this is also a case where R’hllor itself gets to make requests. Now, we know that the monkeys do not always understand R’hllor – look at how often Mel misreads what R’hllor shows her – but centuries of banana pellet comparisons would have put them on the right path.
We do not know whether either book or TV Mel had or did not have the idea. Jon had the idea that she might get the idea after the big deal she made about burning Mance because he has King’s blood.
people who are saying that characters like Brienne and jamie will be AAR..
need to remember that AAR and TPTWP is a same prophecy and the person will be coming from AErys/Rhaella line
so which leaves us only dany and jon
dragonbringer,
I’m not sure I’m one of them, but many people think Jaime and Cersei are
I personally do not get the theories that
*Shrug*
Traditionally, though not always, each dragon has a dragon rider, and so I imagine that these dragon riders are the three headed dragon in the prophecy. Having three dragons and three riders would mirror the original Aegon’s conquering of Westeros with his sister wives, Rhaenys, and Visenya, as do the names of Dany’s three dragons, sort of: Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserion. So it will be nice to see the reconquering by the Dragons mirror the original conquering.
dragonbringer,
Darquemode,
We should expect least 2/3rds of AA (and possibly all 3/3rds of AA) will be drawn from principal protagonists. That would rule out Jaime and Brienne, as they are more minor protagonists.
This time, however, I expect it to be one woman with two men!
Conan,
Ahh you may be right then. I still think there is some link between them and the Valyrians though.
“The dragon has three heads” appears three times in CoK, three times in SoS, once in AFfC, and twice in ADwD.
Darquemode,
that theory is disproven by TWOIAF i think …the timeline doesnt fit it to be true
a lot of theories are made because the existing ones are TOO OBVIOUS ,….if only we have the books in time then we wont be having this feeling
Jamie has his own story with cersei he will be the valanqor and die along with her
if only i made a list of all the Nissa Nissa candidates who dont have anything to do with prophecy and Moon
Dany is always referred to Moon and her husband to the sun
another thing about dany being three headed dragon is ROle and gender reversal
TPTWP – princess becomes prince
TSWMTW – Khaleesi become a Khal
AAR – AAR sacrifices her husband whereas AA sacrificed his wife
Nadia,
thats the problem with all these prophecies ..like if you fulfill the prophecies then no one else matters ..
dany being AAR does not diminsh any character’ s story ..they will all have their part to play
jon will still have his part and R+L=J and Bran will have his role to play and tyrion his and arya hers
who says that there are so many prophecies …the prophecies are same and only having different versions of same thing
we already know AAR/TPTWP is same and TSWMTW also talks about Long Night and Khal of Khal leading them to the ends of the world …and it also comes from Assai where the other two versions come from
dragonbringer,
Where do we know this is the same prophecy? If I recall Melisandre is the only one that explicitly links AAR and TPTWP.
richardhorpe,
Well we do have Aemon who asks about TPTWP to Mel when she was talking about Long Night and chosen one
and there is a interview with GRRM where he confirms thatthey are the same ..maybe someone can link that i dont now have that one
we really dont need to have GRRM to say that they are the same because Aemon while dying talks about Rhaegar and how he thought himself and later his son Aegon might be TPTWP because of the following reasons
being born amidst salt and smoke
and under the bleeding stars
which are part of the prophecy of AAR
so we know that AAR an TPTwP is same because the contents of the prophecies are same
dragonbringer,
As I recall the interview that GRRM did was in relation to the show and it was unclear whether he was talking in general or if that was just Mel’s POV. I’m skeptical because Aemon is as biased a source as Melisandre. So it will be interesting to see how it plays out. I tend to think that Mel seeing TPTWP and AAR as the same makes sense. I suspect she went to Dragonstone and assumed given, Stannis’ bit of Targ blood, and his holding Dragonstone he was the only candidate that could be AAR (her not knowing of Viserys, Dany, and R+L).
While I find all the prophecies interesting I truly hope we don’t get a One True Savior Figure (or three). I would rather hope that is multiple people (some that will be labeled as messiahs and some not) that will have a hand in however the Others are to be stopped.
I think she’ll join the big players, but I also hope she’ll bring her assassin skills with her, so that her Faceless training won’t be wasted. And perhaps she’ll even bring some faces with her!
Aren’t several of these references to the Targaryen sigil rather than to the Promised Prince/Azor Ahai/Messiah figure?
richardhorpe,
dragonbringer,
If nothing else, then the principal of parsimony applies: it is much simpler if these are one and the same. From a story-telling perspective, it will be very convoluted if GRRM tries to make these two different things.
But isn’t WoI&F largely fan-fiction? I thought that GRRM himself contributed little to it, and is not necessarily beholden to it.
There is no way that Melisandre did not know about Viserys and Daeny. The “Beggar-King” was well-known throughout Essos as well as Westeros.
To those who were saying that nobody likes the Sam and Gilly story — ppftttt. I do, in fact, when either or both of them are on, it’s a welcome relief from all the mayhem and sadness . Sam’s scene seeking permission from Jon to go to the Citadel was maybe the only light-hearted moment in the whole devastating hour. His wicked little smile when Jon guessed that Sam had finally had sex was completely charming.
Watching their social progress is interesting, too. We all remember how awkward and seemingly useless Sam was in the beginning, but with half a chance and some true good friends, he’s grown into a distinct person and an asset. Gilly is interested in learning the history and culture. She asks questions and tries to understand what’s going on. So, don’t think that just because the two of them aren’t trying to kill other people, that they are not interesting to many of the rest of us. John Bradley is charming and eloquent off-stage as well.
This bit of casting info in this thread is a great lead-in to tomorrow night’s episode …
…OH …..yeah …. darn. HOW much longer? Aw shit ….. (hangs head and shuffles toward the ice cream)
richardhorpe,
their interpretation maybe wrong but the prophecy is not
Aemon was the only one who was alive did know about the prince one
we dont have to trust what Aemon says about the prophecy because he was already wrong before but there is no reason to not to trust the contents ofthe prophecy he clearly talks about salt and smoke and bleeding stars
we will know what the full version of the prophecy when MArwyn reaches Dany
as Stannis says even AA didnt fight the Long night alone and he will need the help of the other characters …but unfortunately he is not the one and the real AAR will help and make use of other characters in order to defeat the WW
Wimsey,
Well in a way its one of the plot holes that Mel dont know about dany and viserys
she consistently sees Dany and her dragons but misinterpret those or doesnt know what they means
there is a vision Stannis sees
Wimsey,
ELio did say that all the Targ Stuff are from GRRm himself and they are taken from his other work Fire and blood which Grrm intends to do after finishing ADOS
as to the three headed dragon., we first have Rhaegar mention it but when Dany wonders what does Dragon have three head means Jorah tells her about Aegon and his sisters and targ sigil ..
from that moment onwards dany thinks about other two riders as the other two heads of the dragons
Did Mel know that Aemon was Targaryen? Aemon has more king’s blood than Gendry or Shireen or anyone else Melisandre has sacrificed to R’hllor. He was supposed to have been king, like the real king, after all; his father was king from a long line of kings (thirteen ancestors before him); and his younger brother sat the iron throne for over twenty-five years.
Ginevra,
yes she knows
Stannis tells Aemon he knows about who he really his and calls him aemon targ and Mel is with him
That’s my kind of ménage à trois.
It is not really a plot hole. She almost certainly knows about them: how could she not do so? However, she does not think that one or the other is the promised prince. What she probably does not know are some of the details about Daeny that makes her a much better candidate for the prophecy than Stannis is. Stannis is close: but you have to take small liberties with the wording to make him fit into it. Daeny is dead-on: but it’s probable that Mel does not know these details about Daeny.
Aemon mentions that the fact that people translate the prophecy as “Prince” meant that they were looking for a male. Mel might have made the same mistake. If you assume that the Promised One must be male, then all you need to know about Daeny is that she is female: there is no need to consider her any further. Good logic: but possibly bad premises!
Right, but that is a little different from thinking about the other 2/3rds of the AA/PthwP trinity. In Daeny’s minds, it’s just three steeds and two openings for the riders: she is not thinking of them in terms of the third (and unstated first) to which Rhaegar alludes, at least not that I ever remember.
Now, I do not doubt that these things come together. However, the books have not brought them together yet. I’m not certain that the show will need to do so. Much of that will depend on whether Jon is coming back; much might also depend on whether they are including Aegon’s plotline. (We should be able to glean that pretty soon.)
Stannis knew, so Mel almost surely knew.
As for Aemon having “more” King’s blood, I doubt that R’hllor cares about the “more” or the “less.” It is not as if there are “royal genes” or “royal pheromones” on which it is getting off! If anything, then I would bet that proximity to rule is the biggest factor.
I do, I do! 😀 Never find them boring. They are cute together and very sensible and practical.
I for one, hope that whether we get one, three or ten savior figures, what they are saviors for, takes us by complete surprise. I hope he/she/they are not there just to defeat the WWs and have things continue in as stinking a way as before the series started. This world is rotten and corrupt, it needs a complete overhaul. Especially in the areas of common people, and women.
Wimsey,
I don’t think so. These are all quotes within the text, not counting appendices.
Note that later, Roone references the Targaryen sigil as the only three-headed dragon he knows, but even here Roone implies that Alleras is saying something more.
The thing I always found interesting was how Barristan said that the woods witch–presumably the Ghost of High Heart–reportedly told King Jahaerys that The Prince That Was Promised would be born from his children’s line. However, the GoHH appears to base her predictions off of visions and green dreams, not written prophecy, which makes me wonder: if Daenerys were indeed TPTWP, wouldn’t she have referred to her as “princess” and not “prince”? Now, Barristan could just be making a simple mistake, but I think it’s still someone worth taking note of.
I doubt that we’ll get much in the way of post-War Westeros. Ultimately, I think that it’s going to be about Daeny and Jon (more than any other two) realizing the full implications of both the White Walkers and R’hllor and making some sort of very hard compromise choice concerning those two. What, I don’t know. But this is not Tolkien: it won’t be about plot devices finishing the two or lessons in “right” and “wrong.” And this is not Rowling: there is no “instant karma” so that ultimate sacrifices work out in your favor.
I realize that this is saying that the answer is somewhere in New York City without specifying even a burough never mind a street address: but it’s NYC, and not Moscow at least!
dragonbringer,
Thanks. Yes, I see it now, in A Storm of Swords.
Ginevra,
I still see most of that are referring to who is riding the dragons or Daeny trying to puzzle out this very oblique reference to the dragon. After all, most of the explanations that she is given are “common-sense” ones involving either Targaryen history, the Targaryen sigil, or the fact that she has three dragons. However, she is still at the stage of not having worked out that this includes a reference to a figure of prophecy. As such, she really cannot be thinking about the more specific aspects of what it means when she is as yet ignorant about the most general aspects of what it means.
Now, when she learns about AA, etc., then I expect that she will put it together, just as most of us have done. However, she has not as yet learned this. (My guess is that she will in Season 6 / Book 6).
Ginevra,
In the Swords, Stannis addresses Aemon as Aemon Targaryen. I don’t recall if Mel was with him, but even if she wasn’t, she would know if Stannis does. At any rate, Jon assumes that Mel knows.
Wimsey,
Thanks, Wimsey. I found it once I searched SoS – I’d forgotten that they got to Castle Black in the books. And it’s on Page 1078 in my Kindle version, with Mel present.
Actually, the very first quote is where she hears the prophecy in reference to the song of ice and fire from Rhaegal in the House of the Undying visions. So I see all of her brainstorming about dragon riders and husbands as her attempt to fulfill the prophecy.
There’s no evidence that Mel knew who Aemon truly was in the show that I can recall, and the Night’s Watch never would’ve allowed Mel to take Aemon anyway. He’s a sworn brother, highly respected, and the only maester at the Wall. Mel trying to make him a human sacrifice would’ve shattered the already shaky relationship between Stannis and the NW and caused conflict.
Also, I don’t think she ever mentions Mance having “king’s blood” in the show. Her whole obsession with king’s blood seems to be limited to the Baratheon variety.
the way she knew and told that three heads are three riders ..little does she knew she already fulfilled these things
once she learns the full thing from Marwyn she and us readers will know more about the three heads of the dragon which i believe is going to be dany
Ginevra,
dragonbringer,
I love Marwyn. As little as we know of him, I adore eccentric, crazy old geezers whom everyone underestimates and dismisses. I hope he’ll be one of my very favorite tertiary characters.
Moonlight,
But isn’t it said in the books that “prince” in Valyrian is gender-neutral or something? So the “promised one” could be male or female. So similarly, whoever she was seeing in those visions or greendreams was gender neutral as well and she just assumed male.
Ginevra,
i hope so too ..
i cant wait for his interactions with dany mainly because it will reveal lot about targs and what really happened at summerhall and the prophecy
Aemon says that dragons are both male and female. I assume from this that dragons actually are hermaphroditic.
The problem is that, of course, people are interpreting these things in their own contexts: and important people are supposed to be princes, not princesses (who are just supposed to be pretty and make babies, and then not complain when the king takes lovers because she’s lost her girlish figure to too many pregnancies….).
This would make sense for R’Hllor’s followers, too. Sex would be a meaningless concept to a god: it would project other things (e.g., “leader” or “warrior”) as concepts that then would get easily mistranslated by those blinkered by their own preconceptions (“leaders are men called princes or kings”).
Moonlight,
El-Bobby,
it will be better if we refer TPTWP as “The Dragon that Was Promised”
which will give us a clear idea of what we are looking for a Dragon which is gender neutral and will have a three head with fulfilling three different versions of the same prophecy
? Who is Marwyn? And how could he have been around at Summerhall?
Wimsey,
he is Archmaester of citadel who met Sam and learned about Aemon and dany and he left for dany at the end of AFFC
he knows more about the citadel conspiracies and i am sure he will be revealing that and GRRm gets over the stalling of whole revealing part of what really happened for targs and RR to dany
there were books written about what happened at summerhall and the authors of TWOIAF did a cheap tease by mentioning that pages were spoiled due to ink being spilled on it ..but the maesters knows more about it
MArwyn also uses Dragonglass and he was the one who taught Mirri mazz durr
dragonbringer,
I dimly remember him now. Huh, I will be very disappointed if GRRM does too much of that. One of the things that really weighed Crows down was all of the gratuitous world-building: this sounds like it would just be more of that.
Yes, this is an area in which I have a different end game in sight from you. Mine is about balance not just between WW and R’Hllor, but in the world. You have read all the existing books and I have only seen the show. But Season 5 has been most interesting and revealing to me in terms of what and where the end-game may be going. Also, though I noticed many parallels between Jon and Daeny throughout Season 5, the very end left the two in starkly (no pun intended!) different states. We’ll see fairly soon in the show what is what. And I don’t see any more why only Jon and Daeny should be super important; why only two? The existence of three dragons would at the least, point to three people. Or one, or none, or many.
Let’s vote: shall we shorten that to “Toothless” or “Puff”?
Wimsey,
but he was mentioned in AGOT and i think we need answers and he is the only option left
Kay,
its more about the characters of jon and dany themselves and the growth and character development they had in these five books and its not based on the existence of number of dragons
jon and dany are the two most important characters of ASoiaf and other main characters like Arya and tyrion and bran will be connecting links to jon and arya
dany has her dragons and jon has his wolves along with bran and Arya
You’ve been picturing her wrong. This is Arianne.
Since Aemon was mentioned many times in this thread, I figure it won’t be off-topic to ask this question, something that’s perplexed me for a while that I haven’t seen addressed here or anywhere else:
From whom was Aemon getting information regarding Dany? Did I miss a big piece of information somewhere, or was that scene with Sam reading the message to Aemon regarding Dany’s plight supposed to be telling us that Aemon himself had a spy in Dany’s court? .. when he lamented about a Targaryen being alone in the world being a terrible thing? (then Jon walked in …)
If he had a spy, or was carrying on a regular correspondence with someone in Meereen, who would it have been? Was he getting info from Jorah? If he was getting info through Varys’ spy network, then Varys would have some idea of what was going on at the wall. And Sam, seeing the message come in, would know from whom the message came, but it was never discussed.
Any ideas?
Thronetender,
i think we dont need to overthink about that scene too much
we have Aemon in his last minutes learning about dany and how he wants to help her but how his body has failed ..
since they cant have Aemon travelling to bravos in show …they just needed Aemon speak about dany before he is dead and had an letter appear at the wall
whats terrible about that scene was it turned out to be more of another clue to R+L=j than about dany and aemon
Geralt of Rivia,
It would suck without Kit! Not the same!
dragonbringer,
LOL, you’re right.
Actually, they sent Thoros to Aerys, not Robert. And Robert liked him well enough. It was Thoros’s fault he cared more about wine and fights than spreading the religion
Love me some Marwyn too. He is a very “rough and ready” type for a maester. And though he is an archmaester (in the field of magic I think) the others at the Citadel kind of look askance at him.
But yeah, I don’t know if his story will amount to much but he has the makings of a great minor character. And would be a great addition to the Mereen crew if he makes it there.
And of course, as I’ve said I like his take on prophecy.
Am I the only one who thought the audition wasn’t that bad? The actress managed to convey a sense of mystery and seductiveness, especially in her voice. I also noticed she channelled Mel a bit visually with her red dress and necklace which I thought was a nice touch.
Although since the audition video leaked online and spoiled a scene for Season 6, the casting director might be much less eager about the possibility of casting her. :/
JonSnow25,
If there’s something more annoying that tropes, it’s people complaining about tropes. Myths have certain elements in them that make them enduring and powerful. A “trope” is not always a bad thing. It can enrich a story, and make it timeless.
Wimsey,
This was great!
So it’s season 6, and we’re getting the first actual mention of “the prince (one) who was promised”. And it’s Dany who’s being called it by the High Priestess. There’s no way that this is a fake out or red herring at this point. It’s too close to the end now. This confirms for me that AA/TPTWP is Dany and most likely Jon combined (since we’re assuming he will be reborn in some way). The journey from here on out is making Dany aware of the threat and getting her and her dragons to where she needs to be.
Dame of Mercia,
I watch alot of tv and stuff..she was a series regular this year on arrow..and had big role in the last Wolverine movie a yr or 2 ago
Kinvara? Kinvara??? Just down the road (and not far from Gort) 😀 Here’s a pic from the annual Cruinniú na mBád that takes place there.
http://cruinniunambad.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Sails-around-the-castleCROP.jpg
They’ll be casting Oranmore next :O
I think I’ve just fallen for….. Kinvara! Looks like all Red Priestesses are truly gorgeous. No ruby in sight as well.
ArgonathofBraavos,
Well let’s just agree to disagree on that front because i think it’s a bunch of bull . So you are telling me that you would be fine with Jon being the typical fantasy hero who wasn’t really suppose to be a hero but finds the truth about his real parentage and then all it’s good in the world,this idea has literally been done a thousand times before,won’t it bother you at all ?
His quote on prophecies is the best, isn’t it? That sentiment that prophecies are real but never what you (or the Red Priestesses) think they are is the best!
Marwyn’s implying that the maesters are the ones who killed the magic and the dragons. I desperately want to know the truth that would put Sam’s life in danger, but I don’t want Sam’s life to be in danger. No wonder Marwyn looks like a mastiff; he’s got to be able to defend himself.
Hmmm…. Except on B5 the prophesy wasn’t really a prophesy, it was a memory of what happened because of time travel.
What if
spacechampion,
Where the weirsoods end, any potential for that ends.
We already have a plot element with time trancendant properties: R’hllor. The how/why of it is not too important.
That audition tape does put one thought in my head. R’hllor is like LF and playing both ends of the field. That wad not the voice of the Other that Varys heard, but the voice of R’Hllor itself. After all, how better to unify people against your enemy but to commit attorcities that you can pin on that enemy?
i think We can compare HArry potter’s prophecy to Asoiaf ..
Voldemort thinking that he is eliminating his enemy ended up creating one and giving him some of his powers
MMD thinking that she is killing The Stallion instead ended up making dany reborn and give birth to dragons
Rhaegar thinking he needs top create a three headed dragon steals Lyanna ..that creates a war which ends up with the birth of Jon and dany who will be fighting the others
Tyrion and Varys doing politics again, I’m so hyped!!!
Rowling was using a Macbethian prophecy, although the concept was old when Shakespeare used it: a prophecy that comes true because someone is aware of it and the actions he/she takes to prevent it create it.
This is quite different. The plausible candidates for Puff all are unaware of the prophecy.
That written, I expect that any fulfillment of the prophecy will be very ironic.
Lionthing,
In the book and keeps appearing to Danny in dreams telling her about her destiny
Actually, Quaithe appears only once more to Daeny, in a dream/not-dream that Daeny has during Dragons. And Quaithe is one of several people that Daeny hallucinates at one point.
I may have just laughed out loud when someone replied on WIC that it was a WOTW poster who found the clip, not them. 😉
Could you email me the video? Thanks!
Sue the Fury,
First: – Jon and Melisandre meeting
After that: – Tyrion and the Red Priest scene in Volantis
And season 6: – A Red Priest for Daenerys
Three is the number. Three dragon.
When you look at the history of Westeros their own folklore seem to discard or differ a lot from the teachings of the Lord of Light.
All of these Azor Ahai and the Prince that was Promised prophesies actually has nothing to do with Westeros. It is clear something big happened 8000 years ago and every region and religion has created their own savior for if this situation should appear again.
In real life it reminds me of the great flood, there is clearly evidence that there was some kind of big flood, and every religion has created their own story around the flood.
Even if we do get this Azor Ahai figure with lightbringer I struggle to think exactly what this one or two persons will do to stop the Others. One thing is clear, the Others are clearly situated in Westeros, and the Long Night clearly comes from Westeros. This makes me think that it more likely that someone from Westeros will actually have something to do with stopping the Others.
Westeros does have their own lore, and it quite a bit different from the rest. It is mainly the story of the Last Hero who went to find the Children of the Forest. That seems to be very similar to Bran’s story. Another problems is it seems like Bran and the Old Gods are actually against the Lord of the Light.
From the little information we have, the Lord of Light or fire did actually not have anything to do with the ending of the last Long Night. I am starting to think that the dragons might actually be a bit of a red herring. Dragons did not stop the last Long Night. Obviously they might burn a few wights, and they are helping Dany a lot, but I dont think they will be the main solution. The story is almost at the end and only Dany can barely ride a dragon, I am not sure there will even be enough time for more dragon riders.
I think the key to stop the Long Night might still actually be the Old Gods, the Children of the Forest or Brans weirwood net, and something to do with the Starks. They just have too much of a connection with Winter, and it seems like the previous Last Hero might have been Stark, and we know that the Nights King is also a Stark. But even then I think it is more likely that the Long Night will be stopped with some kind of pact or some kind of negotiation.
I wouldn’t call it a bunch of bull, it is sometimes interesting to see how these prophesies can be interpreted. But at the same time I also hope that it doesn’t become the main focus of the story. I think it would be good if some of these prophesies and religions are left ambiguous.
I have never liked the idea of Jon being Azor Ahai, he does not need it. I quite like the fact that he had to join the Nights Watch as a green recruit and work his way up. I have always seen Jon’s role in the future more as a negotiator. I think he might be the one who could end up negotiating with the Others, from information he receives from Bran.
That actually is untrue. Catastrophism of some sort (not always floods: many involve volcanoes or earthquakes) occurs in many religious mythologies as punishments from one or more gods, but typically only those from regions where harsh environmental factors were a generation-to-generation issue. Religions formed in regions lacking those factors don’t have floods or any equivalents thereof. It depends on whether a religion basically views nature as a weapon of the gods or nature as a manifestation of the gods.
(There was a paper published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences on this topic last year that got a lot of attention: if there is one thing that the religious hate more than science, then it is when scientists study religion like it’s anything else!)
That written, the fact that some parallel of the Azor Ahai story seems to exist in multiple traditions does suggest that it reflects some common event. The books do not make clear how widespread this is. For example, does the Church of the Seven include this? We don’t see any obvious sign of it.
Azor Ahai is just going to be a person, or three people. He/she/they will be deified in the future for the great deeds that they accomplish. But it’s not like they will walk around with glowing eyes or echoing voices or walking on top of water or anything like that. He/she/they will not have super-powers: in the end, it will just be how he/she/they resolve some inner conflicts that tell the tale.
Nymeria Sand! Ah… no… but a Red Priestess is cool aswell. ^_^
Sue the Fury,
Any chance you could email me the video, would really appreciate it 🙂
[email protected]
So Varys’s parts were sacrificed so that sorcerer could talk to the White Walkers?
Andy G,
Mt bet is that this is what R’hllor wants us to think. Or, more exactly, it wants us to think that Varys heard the voice of the Great Other, which in turn it wants us to think is what is behind the White Walkers. However, I would bet that R’hllor is badically pulling a Littlefinger here: that was R’hllor.
dragonbringer,
Go home. Jon is AA, not Dany.
Benjen,
Why is it either or? There had to be a third, after all.
As a mostly-Unsullied (never read the books, but have quenched my thirst on as much of the history and lore along with otherwise hidden storylines as I possibly could) I like these sorts of conversations. If I don’t understand something, it gives me something new to research.
I honestly think this audition conversation is a red herring in terms of whatever plotline it may reveal. While it does serve to demonstrate certain talents of the actress, there’s just been far too many leaks over the years for them to risk letting genuine story script be released to the public – especially when it’s storyline of a season for which the Sullied could have no knowledge either.
One thing that has occurred to me though: There is most definitely a character I’ve learned of through watching bluray extras; that has not been introduced to the series in any way as yet, who would absolutely need to be extremely beautiful, manipulative, and resonate magnitudes of power….
Just a thought….
As for the people against the idea of Jon being a “trope” hero. FFS, why not? A “trope” hero is exactly what may be needed after all of the “no good deed goes unpunished” doom and gloom which by now has many viewers totally confused as to the point of this tale and beginning to not care if the world survives or not. I know I am among them, and of the three people who got me to watch this series in the first place – one of them has refused to watch anymore since Oberyn had his face smashed in (and really won’t unless we convince them the story winds up with some semblance of justice over the endless number of assholes) – the other two are like me and leaning toward team white walkers because, quite simply, for all this waffle about shades of grey nobody I know actually buys into it. Committing bad deeds in order to result in a good outcome is one thing. Butchery of people for the sake of it, destruction of innocence, treachery in order to gain power for the sake of self importance or avarice, true sadism, etc. Nope, these are not shades of grey. Not even remotely close. Without a hero, as in a decent leader that everyone can rally behind in order to stave off the coming winter, it’s all just darkness and more darkness..
There needs to be at least one good leader that everyone can finally support and get behind. It also needs to be someone that people actually care about, so a new character is almost utterly out of the question. Hardly anyone is willing to invest in a new character anymore, so that would just be empty viewing. Daeny strikes many as being borderline “Mad Queen” and until both Varys and Tyrion arrived there it seemed utterly impossible that she could ever rule in an effective sensible way. Can she rally people to her banner? Yes, so she is definitely important, but unless they do have three dragon riders and thus three heroes, nobody is really going to buy into her being TPTWP on her own (especially if Jon is dead and buried, because then there was no point to his storyline, which from the very onset of season 1 was clearly more important than Ned’s). Not without one eyebrow raised and their thumb on the fast forward button to get to the end of the story, anyhow.
As for you others (and you know who you are) GoT is not a story of social justice….
The plebs are not going to fight off the darkness, they’re more interested in how many turnips they have in their larder, and it’s always much easier to scapegoat those of higher station than themselves when things turn bad than to do anything about it themselves. Overthrowing the ruling class, no matter how terrible they are, would only result in anarchy – and we’ve had mere glimpses of what that is like during the war of five kings (or for a dose of reality, look how well it has worked out in other parts of the world, like Iraq..).
Women are not going to suddenly be freed from their station in life, and nobody really cares if they do or not in a dark-ages fantasy world setting [aside from devotees of websites like feministing.com, perhaps]. At best anyone can hope for there is that Queens may rule in their own right via Daeny’s example (provided she isn’t as batcrap crazy as she seems from time to time), which isn’t the point of the tale anyhow.
It’s a struggle for survival, a battle between the life and death of the entire world. In such times there needs to be a leader, one whom can stave off that coming winter darkness, or everyone falls victim to it. Daeny inspires people, but she’s not truly a leader. She has dragons and a sense of social justice that makes the plebs love her, but she is too self-righteously chaotic and totally disenfranchises the ruling classes, from which come the people that have genuine talent in leadership and commanding armies, military strategy, etc. Nor is Jon as yet the leader that’s required, but he’s a lot closer than he was before he “killed the boy”. He lacks Daeny’s charisma, and always will. They need each other in that respect, and the fact Daeny’s other two dragons scare her early in the season told us plain and simple that they are NOT meant for her. She may have caused them to hatch, but they are not hers…
A trinity of heroes for the final battle/s seems the only likely outcome. We have one who inspires the masses in Daeny, one who understands the threat like no other this side of the wall and has learned the art of military command in Jon. We lack one who understands true political rulership of nations.
Daeny’s negotiation skills are the same as Aerys’ II – “They won’t obey me. Kill them!” Jon has some small skill as a negotiator as demonstrated at hardhome (or at the Iron Bank to book readers as I understand it), but while his honourable side may get people to trust and follow him, we’ve seen that honour is most definitely not the solution in this world else Ned would still be alive. A true negotiator has to understand people and their motives, and not allow their own honour to blind them to the dishonour of others. To me the only real question is: Who is left for the third rider? Someone we know already, like Tyrion? Seems plausible on the surface, but rather unlikely (as much as we’d love to see that..). Without that second Targ in the tv series (unless Varys is a massive plot twist), the question is really open. Someone new would simply not pass muster to the viewers as we’ve all learned time and time and time again now never to become invested in anyone new.
Looking forward to seeing her naked!
Aw, you can’t upload it for a bit? I’d like to see it – I missed it.
dragonbringer,
I thought he just meant that Daenerys was the “dragon” and her three heads were her three dragons.
Chríss,
get over it..its not gonna happen..the show needs to move on. the final battle against the WW is likely going to take all of season 7 (ie final season) so we only have next season to tie up the mess in Meereen and head to Westeros where hopefully Dany and her gang can rule for few days before the wall falls
Thronetender,
we dont know if he had a spy on her but he most likely just got info on her just like the rest of Westeros has been getting infor on her. in the books though Aemon’s thoughts about Dany were much more in focus and very sweet to read about. we barely saw any of that on the show which really disappointed me but in the books he practically died while thinking of her. he was willing to do anything to get her home and safe, and even though he recognized his old age, he didnt let it stop him from at least trying to reach her and doing everything in his power or through Sam to get her home.
Mustafa. S.,
I kind of agree with you on Varys, however, remember he has reason to be skeptical of sorcery and visions he wouldn’t blindly trust a priestess on faith alone. Varys has always seemed very much a “doubting thomas” when it comes to religion.
I believe that Jon will BE Drogon– I think he will warg into him. Or, perhaps Bran will. I think Bran has been set up, with his relative immobility, to become one of the dragons; if not, I think Jon will.
Just my idea, not sure it it will hold any merit until the end.
I’ve worked in tv a little, haven’t read the books (don’t hate), but I can maybe give some of my guesses on where it’s going. And, remember, this is just my opinion, on script, scene, dialogue basis. 1. They wouldn’t have shown people being brought back to life, what I as a tv viewer consider, mostly insignificant folk. They wouldn’t have touched on it unless this was going to happen to someone significant. 2. Yes, they are way overplaying Dany as the one who was promised, but I think it’s just that, overhype…for a reason. I think she will die after the unification of the “3” which will be Dany, Bran, and Jon. After all the character building to make you really love her and want her to be IT, well that’s what Martin does best, kill the ones we have the most emotions for. 3. Bran rides because the last time we saw him on tv, fuzzy wizard guy says “you won’t walk, but you will fly.” 4. Jon is AA because of the tower of joy, which they’ll dig into next season. 5. I don’t think Tyrion’s dad is who we’ve been lead to believe, and I think he’s related to Dany and Jon, look at their faces, they all have similar shaped heads. Bran too, that’s a casting thing, and I might be hugely wrong, but I’ve thought they looked alike for awhile. 6. The code for the crowes says “til death.” Jon is dead now, and is now exonerated from his commitment, the ONLY way he could walk away and still uphold his honor.
And the walkers will all die from the dragons, that seems fairly obvious because there’s so many.
There’s more that brought me to these assumption thanks to some amazing videos on youtube that quote the book, because the writing really has the clues, and the deceptive distractions. And remember, one must die for others to live, so Dany will go out in some super dramatic scene, likely in the last episode. The final twist in a complex riddle, that we would never expect, but since it’s Martin, we should.
Jon will ride Viserion the white dragon with red eyes(ghost) Dany on Drogon of course and Bran on Rhaegal (you will never walk,but you will fly?) three heads of the dragon,then Jon n Dany marry creating House StarGaryen in my world LOL
Sue the Fury,
Hey Sue! Can you please contact me at [email protected] or leave your e-mail?
I’m literally begging you.
Am I the only one who thinks Victarion’s Azor Ahai? 🙂