Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 5 “The Bells” Written Recap Round-Up

Kit Harington Jacob Anderson Liam Cunningham The BellsJust when you thought last week’s episode of Game of Thrones was contentious, along comes “The Bells”, to barrel down your door (see picture above), divide your friends, and perhaps even align you with some of your enemies. Every Facebook and Twitter this side of the Narrow Sea has thoughts and opinions about our favorite show’s penultimate episode. But I’m not here to talk about your cousin Peter who thought the episode was “cool because the dragon lady burned stuff.” I’m not here to talk about your friend Sarah who thinks it was terrible because “it was too long and violent.” I’m also not here to talk about your Great Aunt Sally, who wants to know if you DVRed that great Hallmark movie that aired last night. No, friends, I’m here to gather up the critics’ thoughts and see what they thought about the decimation of King’s Landing. And whoa boy, did they have some THOUGHTS. And FEELINGS.

Here at Watchers on the Wall, we encourage you to ‘Always Support the Bottom.’ This extends to your support of our editor-in-chief Sue the Fury, in which her background knowledge of the books informs her perspective on the episode, so please go check it out when you get a chance! Once you’ve done that, you would do well to support our peerless Oz of Thrones’s ‘Unsullied recap,’ in which his fearless determination to avoid reading the books has outlasted all others, continuing on for 8 full seasons. After this, you can check out what these Internet critics thought of “The Bells”:

Alan Sepinwall, Rolling Stone – In which the script races through Dany’s transition, piling one personality-altering event on top of the next so that none of them gets to breathe.

Alex McLevy, The A. V. Club – In which this episode was a refreshing tonic to the sometimes conservative mode of traditional heroics Benioff and Weiss have been dishing up this season.

Alyssa Rosenberg, The Washington Post – In which Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire novels have always been about family, and such, the final season, and this episode in particular, are hitting many, many high marks.

Amanda Marcotte, Salon – In which the fans simply aren’t paying attention because the show has spent 8 seasons signaling the ways that war makes monsters out of people and that Daenerys in particular has a deep capacity for cruelty that is only checked when her ego is being sufficiently fed.

Daniel D’Addario, Variety – In which Daenerys’s decision doesn’t need to be sympathetic, however — just legible to the viewer, which this viewer ultimately found it to be and which others, he suspects, will not.

Dave Gonzales, Thrillist – In which Arya’s arc makes sense as a way to anchor point-of-view, but doesn’t add anything to last week’s lingering questions of what Arya’s ultimate motivations are, other than killing Cersei, which she doesn’t get to do.

David Rosenblatt, Squinty Overanalyzes Things – In which I (yes, me of me, fame) explain why my expectations have long been tempered, and people should have been this angry years ago as opposed to now, because this is more or less always how it was going to be given those long ago decisions.

Hillary Kelly, Vulture – In which it stands out as massively uneven, brilliant in moments, but often abysmally fan service-y.

Ian Thomas Malone, Personal Blog – In which the best scenes involve the random soldiers trying to stop Arya, The Hound, and Tyrion because as as larger than life the show feels in so many ways, it also tends to only focus on a handful of people in this big world, making it quite easy to forget that there’s all these other people in the realm, just trying to get by.

James Hibberd, Entertainment Weekly – In which if pushed to nitpick, then he’d say that he wished season 8 had more episodes to play Dany’s arc out a bit longer, but also knows the production gave the final season everything they had given the level of production required to pull off its battle sequences.

Jeremy Egner, New York Times – In which it was a thrilling, horrifying, and ultimately frustrating episode, which feels weird to say because it was often amazing to behold and reflected some of the show’s most central themes, but ultimately hinged on a turn that rang hollow — specifically the heel turn mentioned above.

Joanna Robinson, Vanity Fair – In which it would have been nice to have seen Daenerys talk with Missandei about, say, the death of her dragons, or the loneliness and isolation she was feeling in Westeros instead of being told, rather than shown, that Jorah and Missandei mattered to Daenerys.

Julia Alexander, The Verge – In which it fell into the category of “dumb entertainment,” and that’s not a bad thing — but it’s a lot to unpack.

Kathryn VanArendonk, Vulture – In which GOT may have gotten the “right” answer — that Daenerys would go mad, that this was always her destiny — but without a richer exploration of Dany’s internal life, the series failed to show us the work that got it there.

Kelly Lawler, USA Today – In which maybe some fans can hold out hope that the finale can wrap things up in a way that makes emotional and logical sense, but betting on GOT to fix itself is really just doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

Laura Hudson, WIRED – In which Dany’s transformation from ruthless but compassionate wheel-breaker to videogame supervillain took place over the course of maybe two episodes, because in the absence of enough runway to demonstrate a gradual descent into mental illness, Dany has to simply snap—to experience a break so traumatic that it explains a heel turn into mass slaughter.

Laura Stone, Hey Don’t Judge Me – In which Euron isn’t worthy of this battle, he’s a piece of shit walking dick pic, a usurper and a bit of human trash, and it isn’t clear who won, dammit.

Lauren Sarner, New York Post – In which no one is safe going into next week’s series finale.

Lindsey Romain, Nerdist – In which The Hound was the MVP of the episode.

Mark Perigard, Boston Herald – In which the destruction of King’s Landing was one of the best and most terrifying in the series’ history.

Michael Schick, Hypable – In which as the culmination of eight seasons of so many emotional journeys — the story of Jaime and Cersei, the story of Sandor Clegane, the story of Daenerys Targaryen and her sanity — the episode crumples, feeling almost divorced from much of the work that came before it, or as though the audience is expected to write in crucial information that has been either forgotten or ignored.

Michael Rogeau, Gamespot – In which the fight between Sandor and Gregor actually lived up to the hype, was perfect and much-needed, considering where several other character arcs wound up in the end.

Mike Bloom, Parade – In which the Battle of King’s Landing is reported in the Westeros World News.

Myles McNutt, The A.V. Club – In which it’s not that the final season is failing to live up to his specific expectations of what was supposed to happen, it’s that the final season is failing to live up to what he believes a final season should do: enriching the show that came before it.

Rob Bricken, io9 – In which Cersei’s final moments should have been bigger—not with a grander or more exciting death, but something more emotionally powerful as she realized that her destruction was of her own doing.

Ron Hogan, Den of Geek – In which it’s fair to blame (showrunners) David Benioff and Dan Weiss for the change in the show’s tone, but it’s unfair to blame them at the same point.

Sarah Hughes, The Guardian – In which it was a triumph of spectacle over depth.

Sean T. Collins, Rolling Stone – In which it’s the Red Wedding writ large, a masterpiece that murders all hope of neat closure, and reduces any lingering belief in the redemptive power of violence to ashes in our mouths.

Todd VanDerWerff, Vox – In which he looks at the four winners and ten losers of the episode.

Tori Preston, Pajiba – In which the decision to continuously cut to Cersei, standing in her tower and watching her city get sacked, worked because Lena Headey sold the hell out of it, changing her expression slowly from cool, detached wariness to abject fear.

Verne Gay, Newsday – In which Cersei may have deserved her fate, but also made this series better — and indisputably richer — by her presence.

Thanks for joining this week. Whose reviews did you love/hate, with all due respect of course, and as always?

170 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. Robert Strong:
      You should read the one over at LA Review of Books (Aaron Bady).Very clever. And the only one of the various reviews that I have read that really understands Dany’s terrible plight.

      Tbh I will believe you and maybe check back next week. I’ve read enough reviews of this episode for the day. I need a drink. Barkeep!

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    2. “It’s not that the final season is failing to live up to my specific expectations of what was supposed to happen, which I avoided having for that reason. It’s that the final season is failing to live up to what I believe a final season should do: enriching the show that came before it. And while the notion that power corrupts has always been at the heart of this story, the way it manifests here feels like a simplification of the show and its ideas, as opposed to a culmination of its larger journey. “
      Myles McNutt

      I second this.

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    3. Hibberd basically confirms what I’ve felt all along. The shortened seasons were because they needed to allocate more of the budget to the battle episodes. As successful as the show is, it still had a budget. People love to imply it was because D&D lost interest and just wanted to get it over with, but that doesn’t explain the longer filming schedules. I said last week I would have gladly taken smaller battles in order to get more episodes.

      It’s such a disappointment to see the show become a punching bag for critics and fans alike. I have my own frustrations, but I long ago accepted the faults of the show. I guess my desperation to get the ending allowed me to be more forgiving.

      It’s not that I don’t understand the issues people have. The Dany arc was so hugely important for the ending of the story, and it’s clear not enough time was spent getting her to the state of mind she was at in this episode. 3 or 4 more episodes would have been enough, if done right. Just like it would have been enough to further establish the relationship with Jon last season.

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    4. As previously mentioned, I’ve vastly cut back on the number of reviews that I’m reading this season, and I’ve generally been happier for it (well, as happy as I can be with all of the other madness out there). But throughout it all, Sean T. Collins has been my #1 go-to reviewer after the Sullied and Unsullied recaps here. As a long-time veteran of this story (he’s the man behind Boiled Leather), he has a strong understanding of what this season and series have been building towards, and his analysis was spot-on this week. This year, especially, his reviews have been a breath of fresh air.

      In fact, he stated in his rolling list for Vulture that he considers “The Bells” to be the best episode of the entire series! I personally wouldn’t go that far (the Season 6 finale will forever be the king for me) but it’s definitely much, much closer to the top than the bottom of my own individual rankings (side note: I’ll still take any episode of GOT against almost any other episode of any other show).

      https://twitter.com/theseantcollins/status/1127982095354216454
      https://www.vulture.com/2016/06/game-of-thrones-episodes-ranked.html

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    5. While watching the Jaime/Euron fight, I felt exactly the same as the reviewer who though that Euron didn’t deserve this big of a send off. He was a sickening worm in every scene he was in, and should have just drowned.

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    6. I feel like there is a wave bashing the show and many many people are just riding these waves, the show is still deep, but all those themes and meaningfulness is being buried under the weight of all the critisms, I think in a few years some people will come around and appreciate this season. Does it have problems? Absolutely, but IMHO not to the degree they’re being bashed for.

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    7. I do not get when people say Dany’s descent was too sudden. Yes, even I was caught off guard after she went off after the bells rang, but over the course of all seasons, it was not that unthinkable.

      First of all, the way I see it, Dany has burned/killed people belonging to an increasingly expanding category of “enemies”; she has been burning people since season 1 and seemed to feel powerful whenever she did it. I don’t think a single season went by in which she didn’t burn someone to death. Now, the people she burned were (from our perspectives as viewers) pretty bad people, initially, but it became progressively more clear that she would burn anyone she would perceive as an enemy. Ever since she insisted on unnecessarily burning Dickon Tarly to death, I believe it was clear to us that anyone who does not kneel to her would be considered an enemy. And at the end of this season, this included the civilians of King’s Landing, who did not welcome her as she hoped they would. She can only blame them for not rebelling, for not kneeling to her, for being her enemy.

      Secondly, people seem to have missed/overlooked how Dany gradually became obsessed with power for power’s sake. If she truly wanted to “break the wheel”, then why did she attach so much value to her own lineage’s “right” to rule the iron throne? Why did she insist Jon and others to “bend the knee”? Targaryens once conquered the Iron Throne with dragons, she could do it again, but did she have to? My point is that her insistence for other people to bend the knee, without debating what would actually be the best solution for the people, shows me she cared more about power than the people or breaking inequality. And of course, her defensive reaction after learning Jon’s true identity displayed this even more clearly, but her behavior last season, if not earlier, should have already shown her being stubborn about wanting to rule for no reason other than feeling powerful.

      So, her feeling powerful burning her enemies and her not having any true reason to rule other than it’s her “right” made her becoming the Mad Queen not too surprising. Although, I’ll admit the last two seasons could have done with a few more episodes to spread things out a bit more. I also think they did not show Dany’s face anymore after the bells through the end of the episode for a reason; maybe we’ll find out next week?

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    8. In a perfect world all the actors would sign on for 2 more seasons, make it an even 10, show more development of Dany becoming isolated etc., but regardless this season has been extremely entertaining. Rushed yes, but still very entertaining.

      The problem is everyone has romanticized how things end for so long, and there was no way D&D were going to make people happy. People are too invested.

      I have my criticisms as much as anyone, but when looking at the big picture I cant complain. What these guys have done is incredible despite the flaws.

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    9. My favorite characters have been:

      a)–The Dragons
      b)–The Half Man
      c)–Arya and Needle
      d)–The Hound

      I really didn’t like this episode. It felt too “squeezed.” The fight between Euron and Jaime didn’t feel right, it sort of “just appeared”–although I agree it should have taken place. Eventually.

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    10. Pip:
      Any Monty Python fans here?! Funny or Die did this:

      “Tyrion Tries to Negotiate With Monty Python” 🙂

      Oh is that priceless!!!!!! 🤣😂😂🤣

      Excuse me while I go watch it another 10-20 times.

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    11. Stoneheart,

      People are emotionally invested, and therefore are reacting emotionally.

      It’s easy to rationalize the decisions D&D made. On the surface, the plot is logical. But they didn’t get us there emotionally.

      That’s not a failure of the story, it’s a failure of the storytelling. Time may mute the power of that emotional reaction, but won’t negate it.

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    12. I was a little bit annoyed they wasted time on Jamie/Euron, when he deserved to just die in the explosion. But I guess it added to the list of obstacles in getting Jamie to peace talks with Cersei.
      Still – loved the episode, it’s still the best darn eventful show in history, and we can fill in the blanks – most of them.
      I just hope next week isn’t a ‘years later’ and everyone is where they ended up, happy or dead, on the throne or not. There are a few issues still to be dealt with.

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    13. Honestly, if one more person sniffs indignantly, saying that the signs of Dany’s madness were there all along and were being kept in check by her advisors yadda yadda yadda.

      We know all that. We know that she was often impulsive. We know that she was obsessed with gaining the iron throne. We know that madness runs in her veins. We know that she has lost everything and that a Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing.

      But at no point whatsoever over 8 season has there been any indication that she would go to the extremes of burning innocent people, including children.

      So can someone please explain to me how some soft words and suggestions from Missandei or Jorah would be enough to temper such horrific acts, because I really don’t buy this.

      It just didn’t add up, as we’ve all said this arc was rushed pure and simple and needed another season to fully breathe.

      Using the toasting of Tarly, the Lannister soldiers and even Varys as a precursor is a weak argument too- they were executed for treason or because they were her enemies. Just like Ned, Robb and Jon did with the swing of a sword.

      How is burning someone for those crimes any different to beheading? Death is death.

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    14. Every character’s arc has been played out over the course of the entire show. Due to their experiences some have had their once ambiguos nature made clear. Some have had their true nature reinforced. Some have changed for the better & some for the worse. For example; eventhough she has a compassionate side Dany’s first impulse has always been that of extreme violence, but early on she was inexperienced & many times heeded the counsel of those closest to her. As she got more powerful & inched closer to her goal she began to give in to those impulses more frequently. Smaller scale examples are there from early on in the show while bigger ones came in later seasons. No character’s arc was rushed…everything that shows how they all got to where they are now was shown to us out throughout the 8 year run of the show. Ignore the fact that the story was presented to us one hour at a time once per week for 6-10 weeks each year for 8 years & see GoT for what it is…a story…one massive story of intertwined characters & storylines spanning many years with decades of backstory being filled in as the story was told. Go back and watch it binge watching style & you will see that everything Ive said is true. Everything you need has been given to you.

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    15. Apollo,

      Yes there was. Last season she wanted to fly to kings landing & burn it, but Jon told her she would just be more of the same. She attacked the Lannister convoy instead. In season 6 she wanted to kill all of the masters & burn the other cities, except for Mereen, to the ground. Tyrion convinced her to take an alternate approach.

      Willingness to burn a city to the ground indicates a willingness to accept civilian collateral damage.

      The indications have always been there. The difference this time is that she stopped listening to her advisors, gave in to the impulses that were always there & did it the way she wanted to.

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    16. Sjaak Dakpan,

      I agree 100% & have posted a couple times explaining. The problem I think most viewers have is that they perceive the show as a one episode at a time weekly event instead of seeing it as ongoing story. Binge watching brings it all together & flows better…allowing you to feel the emotion while providing continuity to the massive story – that has taken 8 years of one hour per week once a week for a few weeks each year – to play out.

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    17. This isn’t the right topic really but if it hasn’t been posted somewhere it should have been, to quell this ridiculous rumour:

      Every so often, however, one of these stories gains an improbable currency, and just chuckling at the insanity no longer suffices.

      That seems to be happening right now. All of a sudden this crazy story about my finishing THE WINDS OF WINTER and A DREAM OF SPRING years ago is popping up everywhere. No, I am not going to provide links. I don’t want to reward purveyors of misinformation with hits.

      I will, however, say for the record — no, THE WINDS OF WINTER and A DREAM OF SPRING are not finished. DREAM is not even begun; I am not going to start writing volume seven until I finish volume six

      13 May 2019
      http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/

      Sadly I think we still have a long wait to find out how the endgame plays out in the books, there’s a chance I might even still be alive to read them…

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    18. Apollo,

      Thank you. There’s no way we were anywhere near the point where Dany deliberately hunting civilians street by street for no reason at all would be believable.

      It’s disgusting and way out of character, even for someone who has done questionable things in the past.

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    19. Dany started out with no power, trying to help those weaker than her.

      She soon learned that her mercy gets her into trouble and that power is power.

      What she did in the last episode didn’t come out of nowhere. She was being a Khaleesi. She did what Drogo would have done atop that dragon – the dragon named for him. She burned the men in their metal suits, tore down their stone houses, and raped their women.

      At no point has negotiation ever worked for Dany. What we saw was her giving up even trying and going full Khal.

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    20. Dee Stark,

      I mean, who really cared about Euron?! He was introduced late in the game, was one note character with no redeeming qualities, basically only interacted with Cercei and Jamie. I wish they hadn’t of spent all that time on a fight between the two. That time could have been better spent elsewhere. Yeah, they had to dispose of him so hes not a loose end but just have him die during the dragon fire on ship. I can’t think of anyone who would have been like “Aww Euron didn’t get a cool death.”

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    21. Apollo,

      > But at no point whatsoever over 8 season has there been any indication that she would go to the extremes of burning innocent people, including children.

      I agree, and I would have preferred that they had shown the burning of KL as “collateral damage” to her burning of the Red Keep, where no bells were ringing (still unacceptable collateral damage, but different, and closer to who she was before). As soon as she fully unleashes Drogon, he gets out of control. In the show, she and Drogon appear to be the same, so it looks more like a calculated burning. Maybe the unity Daenerys/Drogon could work, if they had had shown her more furious when being opposed, Drogon looks quite tame instead of wild. I wonder how many of her own troops she has burned.

      Other than this extreme, it has been foreshadowed that she acts aggressively when she’s cornered. Still, Emilia Clarke’s acting sold the transition to me (every scene separate), but she could have been handled more material to make it more gradual. Maybe most people will have a bad opinion of Daenerys after S8, but a good opinion of her acting.

      > Sjaak Dakpan:

      As to her birthright, “Aegon took Westeros not because it was his birthright, he took it because he could” was already there in S1.

      But I appreciate that “power is power” Cersei got a taste of the rockfall that rained down her halls.

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    22. Nick20,

      Regarding the choices Daenerys made in the battle:

      1. Burning the Iron Fleet – it was a military target, they killed her dragon. It’s OK. No problems with that.

      2. Burning the gate and at the same time destroying the GC from behind – brilliant move. She allowed her soldiers to penetrate the city quickly to hasten its surrender.

      3. Burning the city walls and neutralizing ballistas (is that the plural form?) – again, absolutely expected.

      4. I could even go with it that she burnt the Red Keep although it was her family’s seat of power if she wanted to be sure that Cersei died.

      5. But her final move to indiscrimantely start burning people in the streets is something that came out of nowhere. She became a cartoonish villain who just needs to be disposed of.

      Even points 1-3 are enough to create contention and drama in-universe which would be far more interesting than this black and white picture we have as of the end of episode 5.

      The fan discussion would also be more interesting if they didn’t go all the way with pure evil Daenerys. Right now, it’s only the bashing of the creators on one side or their aplogetic defending taking place on the other side.

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    23. So why must Dany be “mad”? When a woman finally connects with her anger, heartbreak, disappointment and shame, then she must be mentally ill if her emotional response is violence? Wow.

      I am going to out myself here and say the unthinkable — I got Cersei, and Dany and Cersei had a lot in common. I was raised by a mother who was a rager, a set of behaviors that were uncomfortable to live with but quite understandable in light of her personal history. That history was full of the same things many women live with and express in violence directed at themselves (socially acceptable) or others (if done appropriately) most especially their own children (way more common than anyone would like to admit). I am by no means co-signing the awful things that Cersei and Dany did throughout GOT. I suggest that their behaviors be considered in context.

      Context: Being physically beautiful. Dany and Cersei’s physical beauty and sexuality was exploited by others, ok, make that male family members, for power. Cersei was married to Robert Baratheon to seal a military alliance and power sharing between the victors of Robert’s War, House Baratheon and House Lannister. Viserion sold a sexually inexperienced teenaged Dany to Khal Drogo in exchange for a Dothraki horde.

      Context: As women in male-dominated societies, both lacked the education and training to learn the fundamentals of leadership, from knowledgeable and morally grounded teachers. Cersei had to learn the ways of power in a hostile Court. She learned cunning, pettiness and viciousness as a way to survive a bad marriage, a scandalous love life and the loss of influence that happens when a woman who has depended on her looks starts to age. Actually for Cersei the cunning and viciousness were native to being a Lannister. Dany had the history and tradition of being Targaryen, read an opportunist, to encourage her to learn about magic, sorcery and of course dragons. She did acquire a group of loyal advisors, all people who had failed at or been failed at some point by life. What neither woman really learned however was trust and empathy. By contrast, Sansa Stark had to learn by observation and recognized actual concern for others was a way to engender trust and respect, i.e. Sansa’s relationship with Theon, the concern she expressed for the survivors of the Battle of Winterfell.

      As for what Dany did with Drogon, not to be too serious, there was the line from Shrek where Donkey announces that he’s gotta dragon and he’s not afraid to use her. As for what D and DB did with Dany and Drogon was not sugar-coat what built up anger can turn into — a blind rage and fury that destroy s everything. The parallels between the Burning of Kings Landing and historical as well as contemporary expressions of similar events include the fire bombing of Dresden during WWII; the firing of the town of Darien depicted in the film Glory, the fictional massacre of the prisoners who had surrendered in the film Last of the Mohicans.

      Impressive bit of entertainment to get me to think so much.

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    24. Personally I do not think that Dany’s flip was rushed, it was hinted at throughout the series just enough, and it worked IMO as a twist / shock. Had it of been more drawn out, I don’t think this episode would have had half as much shock / impact, since it would have just played out in a predictable way, which doesn’t exactly make for exciting TV.

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    25. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Well, people imply they lost intrest, but that actually may not be true. Yet to say they scheduled for 13 episodes in 2 seasons to get the budget for this spectacle feels like a convinient excuse for they writing incompetence.

      No, Dany arc has been butchered. I rewatched 2 first seasons, and I understand why I do hate what we get now. They undermined her whole idea of freeing innocent people out of slavery. They killed her compassion for poor and disadventaged. And it all happened in 2 episodes. This is ridiculous to build her chatacter for 7 seasons and get her switch to mad-mode in a matter of days (in story). I absolutely buy the idea of Targaryen genes, but to cut it to such mess is definitely unrewarding.

      The show did not become a punchbag to critics for no reason. Scheming, backstage plotting, treason – it simply went away with the season 7 premiere.

      Season 8 began promising. And from episode 3 it’s just an inevitable downhill.
      13 episodes to conclude such a grand story have been worring for the last years. Everybody asked: how are they going to end this epic show. And the truth became clear. They had no idea what to do, so they took an oversimplified path to boil it down to a massive CGI effect spectacle, and little of chatacter development for which we all loved the show.

      Looks like they had no idea how to lead this story, so they chose to cut the number of episodes. And it has little to the budget since HBO offered a lot of money and shoved on them to make the series last longer. Of course, just out of business intrest, but it proves that money was not a deal at all.

      I just feel betrayed by D&D. So much of actors, designers, directors, Djawadi’s effort wasted just because of a terrible script. Tyrion is dumb. Varys, the Master of Whispers went for open treason. Jon is boring as hell. Melisandre’s and Berric’s purpose was to live, so Arya can give the fatal blow to Night King for a sole purpose of a shock… Even the Cleganbowl was more of a Hollywood than a serious fight. I mean. It’s absolutely crazy.

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    26. only one to blame for dany “suddenly” becoming the mad queen not feeling right is ramin djawadi. he kept giving us the awesome and uplifting dragon themes and manipulated us to side with dany.
      I’m kidding of course. I love the guy <3

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    27. I read the Todd VanDerWerff, Vox article, and it was sad that his viewing party all boo’d. But I get it. I will admit that D&D just didn’t prepare the audience for Dany’s turn to madness. For me, I couldn’t accept that Dany went mad. I think that’s demeaning to women to think that she got too emotional and snapped. I was thinking in my own head that she just chose fear over love and went all fire and blood. Yes, she wanted vengeance, but that’s not the same thing as just going mad. I thought she had a strategy. She would be merciful to the next generations but not to this one. That being said, most people out there just can’t accept the major shift in so few episodes. It does seem like if the North would have just welcomed Dany, maybe she wouldn’t have destroyed all of Kings Landing? I expect that Dany will echo Jaime’s comments about “I hate the North”.

      Now I have to let this go and turn my attention to the finale. My biggest curiousity is how the unsullied, dothraki and drogon will react if Dany is taken down. There aren’t any other armies out there that are as large at this point even if Varys’ scrolls end up going all around the kingdom.

      There is a WotW article from just about a year ago that is a pretty huge spoiler at this point. I will reference it below, but I won’t put a link to it, since links actually show throw the spoiler gray out box.

      Luka had an article on May 9th of last year titled “UPDATED! Season 8 SPOILERS: Even More Characters at the Dragonpit Confirmed!”

      I think this is the dragon pit scene that Sophie Turner must have on her wall as the final storyboard she received. It looks like Arya, Bran, Sophie, Jon, Sam, Brienne, and Gendry are all there from the photos and comments in the article. I can see Sansa sitting on the throne with Gendry as a very likely ending. How we get there is anyone’s guess. I am hoping Bran wargs into Drogon so his powers are at least a little useful this year. I’m hoping Arya is able to talk to Jon this episode so he’s not alone in his decisions even if she doesn’t use her FM skills to take down Dany.

      I think Sophie’s scroll she kept must be one of Varys’ scrolls he sent out, so at least the detective work is all coming together. I’m hoping for at least a little sweet with so much bitter of this season. It is sad though that they couldn’t have prepared us more for Dany’s down turn.

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    28. Adam:

      I just feel betrayed by D&D. So much of actors, designers, directors, Djawadi’s effort wasted just because of a terrible script. Tyrion is dumb. Varys, the Master of Whispers went for open treason. Jon is boring as hell. Melisandre’s and Berric’s purpose was to live, so Arya can give the fatal blow to Night King for a sole purpose of a shock… Even the Cleganbowl was more of a Hollywood than a serious fight. I mean. It’s absolutely crazy.

      “Cleganbowl” was pure camp. “Die fucker!” LOLOLOLOL!!!! Say it ain’t so. Say it ain’t sooooo!

      Everyone that I know of who loved the show and books feels just as you, I and millions of others, feel… “betrayed.” The story deserved a better treatment from its “creators.”
      This makes me sad.

      But hey, in a nod to the apologists and to this site’s habitué, at least It looked good. And I do love a spectacle.

      I’ve had some great moments watching the show and even better ones (enriched by the show) reading the books.
      Surely that counts for something. Right?

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    29. Varys is a hypocrite. He was plotting with Illyrio in season 1 for Viserys and Khal Drogo to invade Westeros with a dothraki horde. How would that have been any better for the realm than Robert Baratheon who kept peace for over 10 years.

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    30. Riverhawk 2055: So why must Dany be “mad”? When a woman finally connects with her anger, heartbreak, disappointment and shame, then she must be mentally ill if her emotional response is violence? Wow.

      If you decide to deliberately target and slaughter hundreds of thousands men, women, and children for no reason after having won the battle, then you’re mad, yes. If you spend 30 minutes burning a city you want to rule over despite hearing the cries of children burning and women being raped, you’re mad. If you go street by street methodically eradicating innocent civilians, you’re mad.

      How is that even remotely debatable ? Of course Dany is mentally ill. Anyone who does what she did is mentally ill, man or woman.
      Stop making this about the fact that she’s a woman. It’s not about that. It’s about her being the biggest mass murderer in the history of Westeros. And she did it for no reason whatsoever. She had won. The city surrendered. Yet she still decided to hunt down every last person in that city and burn them, basically for sport.

      She’s a monster, and she couldn’t possibly be less sane.

      How can you possibly claim that this a normal or healthy response to anger, heartbreak, disappointment, shame, grief, or any other emotion ?

      This is obviously as unhealthy and unjustifiable as it can get. No matter what you’re feeling, you have no right to commit mass murder.

      Do you not understand that the people of King’s Landing are human beings as well ?

      If everyone who felt anger and disappointment decided to slaughter hundreds of thousands, the world would have ended long ago.

      Dany’s insanity is not debatable, it’s a certainty. Jon has lost a lot of loved ones as well, you don’t see him committing genocide.

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    31. Undead Elephant:
      Varys is a hypocrite. He was plotting with Illyrio in season 1 for Viserys and Khal Drogo to invade Westeros with a dothraki horde. How would that have been any better for the realm than Robert Baratheon who kept peace for over 10 years.

      More bad writing and inconsistent characterization. This is a result of having changed Varys’ true motives, which in the book, are not altruistic.

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    32. Tron79,

      If I remember rightly, Kit arrived two days after everyone else and shortly after that they all left. There were a bunch of other actors there who may have been a misdirect or there for a Spanish GOT location wrap party (they did one at all their recurring locations apparently). So either Jon appears and is in the scene for only a short time or Kit went for the party/misdirect. I worried that it might be a funeral scene where Jon wouldn’t need to do much, but it may be a coronation scene that has all the other characters having exchanges and then at the end Jon walks out from the underground section of that set and then just walks through a mass gathering of extras and our long-loved cast members to sit on the throne – panning shot of everyone looking pretty destroyed by the bleakness of season 8, focus on Jon looking utterly miserable as the crowd chants “long may he reign” – the end. That would require him to have less time with the other actors. It’s a bit of a mystery. My fear had been that they were all going to get Wild Fired there by Cersei, but that isn’t going to happen anymore.

      I’m not sure Sansa and Gendry are going to have their first scene together, get married and ascend to the throne all in one episode. That would feel beyond rushed wouldn’t it?

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    33. The worst thing will happen again, Bran will be elected to be King, as that perfect because he is not interested in anything that happens tu normal humans, so the Kings council finally rules Westeros to its best. This wanders already a long time through the net as a leak, but I coulnd’t believe it. Now I expect it.

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    34. people should have been this angry years ago as opposed to now

      But we were David! And it didn’t help 🙂

      Thank for compiling these and for your review! It’s great to have one place to not only read all the reviews but comment on them. Thank you!

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    35. Nick20: More bad writing and inconsistent characterization. This is a result of having changed Varys’ true motives, which in the book, are not altruistic.

      Varys saved Aegon Targaryen (Young Griff, not definitely sure yet, not in the show, but they had some sentences on this), protected Danny all these years and now has found a (new) Targaryen who is in his opinion the best ruler for Westeros. Although he was acting very clever and in the background all this years and now turned dumb also, this is a bad turn again. To me it fits that he switches to Jon in the show, but taking this risk is not normal for Varys. Excuting Varys was also totally rushed. We might see some more rushed exections next Sunday and I said it before, when its Sansa turn, John will kill Danny. (and Greyworm)

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    36. I have no clue as to why the main writing team rushed these last two seasons, and I held out hope (maybe too much) that it was justified, but unfortunately this decision has impacted so many facets of what made most of the first six seasons an amazing ride, that it is truly deflating and saddening to see them take a huge dump on their legacy. It makes it that much worse for those directly affected, like directors and actors who somehow made the last 2 seasons somewhat watchable.

      Normally, when writers mess up a bit, you can at least see what they were going for, that in the end it simply did not translate well to screen, but that at least some thinking effort was put into it. Here, only a rush-job explains the glaring oversights (not talking about coffee cups), and absurd pacing leading to character assassinations and constant suspension of disbelief, outside of them being mediocre writers-at-best (which earlier episodes seem to argue against). It really does feel like they were having fun with GoT, suddenly found a shinier toy, and kind of discarded the former without much ado.

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    37. Guys, it’s pretty obvious: Dany has been an imperialist a-hole the entire time. Think about it: she has mainly conquered slave cities (the Dothraki being a huge exception). Is it a huge leap to say that people who have only ever known slavery might more readily accept a tyrant simply because she *seems* nice?

      She never had to work to win hearts and minds, because she was just addressing the biggest quality of life issue and moving on.

      So, of course nobody in Westeros is going to love her, because they don’t have this frame of mind, as slavery doesn’t exist there. And ruling by fear means you are going to have a short reign.

      But, of course a lot of the fandom was all caught up with YASS KWEEN and I LOVE KHALEESI (and also Ramin Djawadi’s score probs didn’t help, either 🙂

      It’s been there the whole time. Most people just haven’t been paying attention.

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    38. Joseph Mobile:
      Guys, it’s pretty obvious:Dany has been an imperialist a-hole the entire time.Think about it: she has mainly conquered slave cities (the Dothraki being a huge exception).Is it a huge leap to say that people who have only ever known slavery might more readily accept a tyrant simply because she *seems* nice?

      She never had to work to win hearts and minds, because she was just addressing the biggest quality of life issue and moving on.

      So, of course nobody in Westeros is going to love her, because they don’t have this frame of mind, as slavery doesn’t exist there.And ruling by fear means you are going to have a short reign.

      But, of course a lot of the fandom was all caught up with YASS KWEEN and I LOVE KHALEESI (and also Ramin Djawadi’s score probs didn’t help, either 🙂

      It’s been there the whole time.Most people just haven’t been paying attention.

      Most people just ignore that these guys are used to their houses and House Targaryes ruled about 300 years or more. Roberts rebellion is only 15 years ago when the story starts, so most of the people are still aware that Westeros “belongs” to House Targaryen and mostly only House Lannister/Tywin was not a friend of especially Aegon as he always mocked him for no reason, took away his first born son, dismissed Cersey as wife for Rhaegar and it seems raped his wife Joana. Dorne, Rosegarden and a lot of other houses should welcome the Targaryens back, of course only in the books.

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    39. Che,

      I do remember now that Kit wasn’t there the whole time. I tried to go back through the old thread but there are over 500 posts in that one! I don’t think it’s a funeral (I hope it isn’t!!) I think if it were a funeral for Jon they would do it back in the North. It could be a funeral for Dany, but she isn’t there. There were also several other names mentioned in the article who could have just been in town for a wrap party (such as Tom Wlaschiha and Faye Marsay) But Luka said no photos were able to confirm they were there.

      I don’t think it’s too quick for Gendry and Sansa if they just make an arranged marriage. It won’t be for love, but GOT marriages have really never been for love. I can see Sansa talking with Gendry and coming up with the plan. If you think about it, who else would have a claim? Tyrian is supposed to be there also btw (I forgot to mention him). But he really doesn’t have a claim. Cersei just took the throne but she didn’t have a blood claim to it other being married to a Baratheon. Since there are many callbacks to season 1, I could see Jon agreeing to the idea that the true heir to the throne is a Baratheon. After all, that’s what Ned wanted to happen. Sansa would fulfill King Robert’s wishes of joining their houses, so it makes alot of sense to me in my warped brain. How Sansa gets there with Gendry is hard to say. But since Joe Dempsie was also spotted in town (I saw a photo in the WotW article), then I think it’s highly likely that could happen. Otherwise, why would he be there? I really hope Jon is still alive though. It’s going to be hard to take if Jon ends up dying when killing Dany with some tragic Romeo and Juliet ending for him. I’m hoping since Arya is there she won’t just ride off by herself in the end. I think the last scene she shot that Maisie was referring to in one of her interviews was last episode’s ending where she rode off in slow motion on the horse. That’s why I thought that was the last we were going to see of Arya and her arc was completed, but then I saw her in the preview!! So, they must have just shot out of order. She said she was all dirty and they were shooting a slo mo shot and she was alone (as her final shot). That actually gives me more hope that she can be back with the pack with the Starks/Baratheons in some way. Anyway, I’m sure if D&D (and possibly GRRM) go with Sansa/Gendry, everyone will be upset that it was too fast. But arranged marriages are very fast. I can see how Gendry would agree if Sansa convinces him.

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    40. Che,

      Pure fan fiction. If you’re interested in spoiling yourselves the last episode leak is on Reddit and the sources had this past Sunday’s leaks pretty much 100% correct.

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    41. So we dont get to know what the voice in the flames said to a young Varys. What was the point in teasing that in earlier seasons? I feel like because of this accelerated pace they seem to have forgotten to tie up certain things.

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    42. Mattos the melted,

      I honestly think that Davos wrapped up the Lord of Light story with his line about The Lord of Light not even sticking around to give us his blessing. I took that to mean that The Lord of Light had left the building. I think that story line is over unfortunately. I would have wanted to learn more about what was really going on.

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    43. Jack Hamm,

      Absolutely right 🙂

      The story is trash, but the spectacle… boy, oh boy. The music, the CGI… it has been brought to another level! And acting deserves appreciation. On point.

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    44. kathy,

      If you know the ending to show, and I presume that’s why you speak with such certainty and reference where to find spoilers, would you mind not replying to theories in that manner? It kind of takes the fun out of the game to discuss theories with other fans about what may be coming up next week only to have someone who knows how it ends come and say ‘nope, that’s not how it ends’. It spoils it for others and also inadvertently spoils the episode.

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    45. Ser Not Appearing in this Series:
      This isn’t the right topic really but if it hasn’t been posted somewhere it should have been, to quell this ridiculous rumour:

      Sadly I think we still have a long wait to find out how the endgame plays out in the books, there’s a chance I might even still be alive to read them…

      Where’s Frank? The guy who said in a previous post that he had TALKED to GRRM himself and was told book 6 & 7 were both finished.

      Frank? Frank? Where are you?

      You got sum splainin’ to do!

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    46. Ten Bears,

      BURN IT ALL. The way everything was written the past two seasons that is how I feel. BURN IT ALL. If only the white walkers could could back and KILL THEM ALL. F IT.

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    47. Robert Strong: You should read the one over at LA Review of Books (Aaron Bady). Very clever. And the only one of the various reviews that I have read that really understands Dany’s terrible plight.

      I enjoyed the read. Thx! However, I found one of the comments below the essay to be a wonderful alternative to the events portrayed in the episode.

      From commenter ugluk2:
      One could have written this episode in a much better way. Last episode Cersei and Euron’s forces were amazingly competent with their scorpions. This episode they were pathetic. Split the difference. Make it a hard fought battle that could go either way, with a wounded dragon spewing fire everywhere and with crazed men on both sides committing atrocities. Let Dany with her good intentions and hubris and arrogance destroy the city she meant to save. That would have current resonance with American foreign policy. But no, we get the childish story that a city could be sacked in a humanitarian way if only Dany hadn’t chosen to be evil.

      Anyway, I agree that the idea of “mad” and “queen” to be redundant is excellent. Dany’s dream is a delirious, egotistical one. How could she not believe in destiny when she walked out of the fire with 3 dragons? (paraphrased from the essay)

      I remember a few years ago, many thought it would be “mad” queen Cersei who would eventually burn down KL. But it was the “Mad” King’s own daughter who did the deed. The “snow” falling down on the iron throne in her dream was indeed ashes (or perhaps it has a double meaning?). Did anyone watch Cersei’s expressions as Dany/Drogon started their fire-sweeping strafing runs? She initially watched with envy. A “mad” queen respecting another “mad” queen.

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    48. kathy,

      Ah, okay. No, I spoiler coded because Tron and I were discussing filming related news that others may not wish to know. Just for future reference though, I don’t think anyone discusses any leaks here. There is a quarantine area in the forums for that I think. If it’s spoiler coded, it tends to be filming news or book spoilers.

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    49. I’d have liked it if they’d take a little more time with Dany conquering an outlying city that resisted her and burning it to the ground and having Jon, et al., convincing themselves that that was okay, because it might convince Cersei Dany’s serious. Only to have her commit this war crime on King’s Landing.

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    50. And what about my aunt Karen who wants to talk to the manager of HBO?

      Jared,

      nr 3 for me I think. Winds top it, but I’m on the fence if hardhome of bells is nr 2.

      Tron79,

      Why is it bad for woman when Dany turned mad, but not bad when Aerys turned mad? Or Viserys? Or Joffrey. Maybe it’s just that family that build their genes with incest.

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    51. But did I read it right, most critics were very positive about the episode? But people hated it right? It was bad? It was the worst episode of the show right?

      Seems like most though the episode was brilliant.

      Undead Elephant,

      Robert didn’t give the realm peace. His small counsil did. He was a lazy king, which only though about fucking and eating and drinking. He bankrupt his country because of that.

      Thanks too Varys, Pycelle, Renly, LF and Arryn the realm was safe.

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    52. kevin1989:
      But did I read it right, most critics were very positive about the episode? But people hated it right? It was bad? It was the worst episode of the show right?

      Seems like most though the episode was brilliant.

      This can sum up literally any episode this season, it seems.

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    53. I am pretty bummed at what this season, this fandon, this “think piece” culture turned out to be… toxic environment.

      I just want it to be over…
      Put it out of its misery tbh.

      Thanks for all the great years. sad its ending this way,

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    54. One sentence of Dark Knight came to my though just moments ago:
      “You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain”

      Seems very true for this episode.

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    55. Mladen,

      I loved the episode, no complaints. Actually most people I know personally loved it too, when it comes to the internet there’s just a lot of people who need somewhere to project their hate.

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    56. kevin1989,

      It was another fantastic episode of television. It had its flaws, unquestionably. There are aspects I believe could have been done much better and I’m disappointed with some characters’ behaviour and conclusions.

      But the bitterness and vitriol and insistence that none of it made sense is all coming from stubborn or inattentive people who either didn’t see any of this coming or are furious that things didn’t go the way they expected.

      The bitterness of those that didn’t see the end of the White Walkers coming has now been compounded by the bitterness of those that didn’t see Daenerys’ meltdown coming.

      All the brainless Youtube theorists who have been grubbing money despite getting things wrong for years and speculating on nonsense are stoking up vitriol. They, rather than D&D or GRRM, have been shown to be know-nothing charlatans and they’re pulling off one last grift by stirring up hate clicks before the gravy train comes to a halt.

      On IMDB this episode alone has more than DOUBLE the amount of 1 star reviews (1 star out of 10!!!!) in less than 48 hours than the ENTIRE 7th season combined.

      Yet people still want to pretend that this is a totally reasoned and natural reaction?

      Frankly, it shows how spoiled and ungrateful many people are. Lashing out because things didn’t go the way they expected.

      I seriously disliked last season and was ready to dislike this one, and I dearly wish the final seasons hadn’t been condensed the way they have been. But the negative reaction to this spectacular conclusion to a TV show the likes of which we will possibly never see again is nothing short of spiteful.

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    57. Man, the last couple of weeks have been rough online when it comes to GoT.
      I get why people are upset, they were always going to be upset even if they had more episodes to set this up. Dany burning civilians isn’t something you should like to see or want to justify.
      I can always understand people with complains, because there are some problems with the show. However people blaming D&D for ruining the show and Dany’s character is just insane to me. They refuse to believe this has always been the path that George had in mind for Dany, even though it’s so obvious to me. My blood starts boiling when I see comments on Instagram or twitter of people saying that George said he has a different ending and hates this season even though he has never made a comment about anything. George even said that the ending of the show will not differ to much from his own ending, except maybe for secondary characters.
      Then there are people who say that Daenerys went mad in one episode without buildup. George is only writing two more books and Daenerys isn’t even on her way to Westeros. Do people really expect this stretched out arc for her? the ending was always going to feel rushed.

      Oh well, the reaction to this episode was always going to be this mixed. Some people would always have hated this ending even with all the build up in the world.

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    58. Fiery Heart,

      Most people I know hated that. It’s not about projecting hate, it is about being honest. Actually, to be completely honest, I am perhaps the only one in my surrounding who taught that some things made more sense than they consider. But, we should be honest. It is not the best we have seen on TV, it is not even close to best of Game of Thrones. We know how this series can be amazing, how dialogues can be profound. We fell in love when the budget was half the size. Instead of Drogon being ultimate WMD, we needed more time giving all those moments that pushed Dany over the edge to breathe. We needed something money couldn’t buy. And that was the issue with this season.

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    59. Robert Strong,

      Great article in the sense of Westeros. It’s the shows fault we forgot this takes place in Westeros, with its own map, history, traditions, religion etc. We should always analyze this from the westerosi point of view. I also think she is very rational. There is also a great touch of Miguel and Emilia showing us Dany making that decision. She’s not mad! She’s terrified of what she must do! Then she finds the strength in her to do it – Great Job Emilia ! And after that, we never see her for the rest of the episode. First profile close-up of Dany in ep. 6 will be the one to look out for. Yes ! She will take a knife in the heart for her people – Jon did to. I’m also sure that things will not stay like that. They can’t. There is nothing sweet about it. I’m still waiting for the sweet side of things – and it will come.

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    60. Tycho Nestoris: But we were David! And it didn’t help 🙂

      Thank for compiling these and for your review! It’s great to have one place to not only read all the reviews but comment on them. Thank you!

      People were upset but they weren’t vitriolic the way they are now. All the same, thanks for reading!

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    61. I’d also like to pose a question to everyone complaining about how Dany’s shift seems so sudden:

      Who the hell is Walder Frey? I mean, we know who he is, but, like, who is *he* to pull off the most shocking episode in TV history before (arguably) Sunday’s episode? The Rains of Castamere is literally the second episode he appears in the series after he is introduced in Baelor. His only set-up as someone who is capable of such cruelty is when Cat tells Robb he is “a dangerous man to cross.” And that’s it.

      There is precedent in this show for HUGE things happening on virtually no notice. We’ve been given ample notice with Dany.

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    62. Mladen:
      So, are we still foolishly clinging to the idea ofthe “coordinated hate”? Or are we ready to face the truth?

      I’m leaning more towards ‘people trying to collectively rationalize their terror and disbelief in a way that validates their misplaced trust in a fictional character.’

      “Daenerys wasn’t who we thought she was or wanted to be.”

      becomes

      “The writers screwed up her character.”

      What’s The Truth (patent pending)?

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    63. I wonder how this frankly unprecedented hate being spewed from all corners at GoT will impact the spin-off show. People are masters of bandwagoning, always have been. They generally watch and enjoy things others are watching and enjoying. I think all this controversy and negative press as well as word of mouth might seriously damage the prospects of the new show. I expect to see noticeably weaker ratings and critical scepticism right from the get-go. HBO can’t be happy.

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    64. kevin1989,

      Why is it bad for woman when Dany turned mad, but not bad when Aerys turned mad? Or Viserys? Or Joffrey. Maybe it’s just that family that build their genes with incest.

      It would be difficult for me to write a woman character who was strong and strategic to then just call her “crazy” or “mad”. There have been a number of articles written about how men use the term “crazy” as derogatory.

      In GOT I actually thought they were trying to break the wheel of patriarchal societies. When they end up calling Dany crazy or “mad”, I’m not sure what to do with this. There is a dissonance for me. It goes counter to the message I thought I was hearing. I saw a women gain her confidence and strength. Yes, she was angry to see Messandei beheaded. She had real vengeance because her family was killed by Cersei’s family. She could have been strategic thinking that she needed to rule by fear to be successful. I’m not sure why it has to be that she went “crazy” or now she’s the “mad queen” to explain it all away. I do hear you that her father was the “Mad King” It’s just not as derogatory a term for a male character IMHO. If anything, it made him a legend and feared. No one other than Brienne understood why Jaime really killed him. To everyone else he was just a king to be feared or overthrown. King Robert didn’t attack him because he thought he was “crazy”. He attacked because of Lyanna.

      Other characters you mentioned had sadistic or evil qualities, but no one explains their actions because they went “nuts”. That’s the part that is derogatory.

      I for one am actually not a huge PC language person. But in this case I think it’s demeaning and should have been avoided.

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    65. Mr Fixit,

      I think if it doesn’t come out for another two years that people will have had an ample cooling off period. Believe me, this series is at its best when it is viewed as a whole. Before Season 8 aired, my wife and I re-watched the entire series and it is just so intricate and it gives you a true appreciation for the grander story. I think Season 8 will be no exception in this regard.

      There may be some negative word of mouth, but there definitely seems to be a silent majority of people who still love it and are waiting impatiently for the finale (myself included).

      And hey, at least the series won’t have a spin-off running simultaneously as the original series is (The Walking Dead / Fear the Walking Dead, etc).

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    66. Joseph Mobile,

      Yes. Over 7 seasons Dany has shown or stated her desires and impulses to burn people and things that get in her way. Shes been tempered by those around her at every turn however.

      Shes always been a conflicted character.

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    67. Joseph Mobile:
      I’d also like to pose a question to everyone complaining about how Dany’s shift seems so sudden:

      Who the hell is Walder Frey? I mean, we know who he is, but, like, who is *he* to pull off the most shocking episode in TV history before (arguably) Sunday’s episode? The Rains of Castamere is literally the second episode he appears in the series after he is introduced in Baelor.His only set-up as someone who is capable of such cruelty is when Cat tells Robb he is “a dangerous man to cross.”And that’s it.

      There is precedent in this show for HUGE things happening on virtually no notice.We’ve been given ample notice with Dany.

      I think a better example might be Roose Bolton.

      Why did he betray Robb? It seemingly came out of nowhere and up until that moment he’d been loyal and helped to fight the people he would suddenly betray the Starks for. So out of character.

      Of course no one was rooting for him.

      Here’s some more:

      Stannis burning Shireen? He would NEVER do such a thing! He clearly loves his daughter. Such inconsistent writing…

      Ramsey raping Sansa? Give me a break, Sansa’s going to outsmart him or Ramsey’s going to respect her because she’s his wife! Sansa is a player now, she can easily handle him. Wait? She does get raped? Terrible woman hating writers!

      Tyrion killing Shae? He loved her, so that made no sense. Killing someone you love out of the blue doesn’t just happen even if you feel betrayed. The writing on the show has gone to shit. At least it should’ve been set up better by having him talk about wanting to kill Shae over a couple of episodes.

      What about Joffrey? We knew he was a dick, but just ordering Ned killed like that? Totally out of character. Nothing we’d seen about him in season one would suggest that he was capable of that. Character assassination I call it!

      The lengths people will go to to justify their favorite characters…

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    68. Mattos the melted:
      So we dont get to know what the voice in the flames said to a young Varys. What was the point in teasing that in earlier seasons? I feel like because of this accelerated pace they seem to have forgotten to tie up certain things.

      If I had to guess, it was “dracarys.”

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    69. Mr Fixit,
      Unfortunately there are people like that, and as we’re already seeing in comments on this site, people that are stating they’re skipping the prequel because of their dislike of how GoT is ending. I’m a fantasy and science fiction fan straight up. I will always at least start watching everything in the genres and usually with a lot of hope that I’ll enjoy. A lot of the time they don’t end up being to my liking, but I am going to find the ones that are.

      Speaking specifically about “The Bells” in relation to that. I would be pretty surprised if someone that likes fantasy said the episode sucked if it was the only one seen. Surely the person wouldn’t know what is happening and why, but if I were that person I’d be jumping on the series from the start immediately!

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    70. Apollo,

      But at no point whatsoever over 8 season has there been any indication that she would go to the extremes of burning innocent people, including children.

      This is only true if you dismiss what you wrote just before it.

      On the thread during the live watch I made some the same comments that now you are tired of hearing. Amanda Maecotte’s review captures a lot better what I was trying to say. That from. Season one she has always been willing to murder anyone, man, woman, or child, for the in her mind crime of not revering her.

      Some of those she actually killed before were deserved, some were not, but when time after time you have to be talked out of burning down entire cities, it is clear that burning down entire cities is something you are capable of doing.

      Just like Ned, Robb and Jon did with the swing of a sword

      .

      Varys’ burning was justified because indeed treason is punishable by death in GOT’s world. But Ned, Jon, and Rob never executed anyone simply because they were enemies.

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    71. Ser Brocolli McBrocolliface,

      shown or stated her desires and impulses to burn people and things that get in her way

      While I didn’t like the execution, I understand the choice to have Daenerys embrace the fire and take revenge. But Daenerys forgot the most important thing in her way. Jon.

      What I don’t understand is Daenerys not burning Jon too with the commoners. Mostly because how silly she’ll look if he ends up putting a sword through her heart.

      That would really hurt Daenerys because it makes her look really naive. She has to know that none of the other kingdoms are going to follow her willingly once she nukes the city and what better time to take out your main competition than a war zone where there are no witnesses.

      IMO Daenerys won the throne, and needs to sit on it. She also needs to rule with fire just as she won the war with fire. Anything less and it makes this episode (and all the set up) seem pointless and that problem is already there with Bran. It would mean two main characters, who are extremely powerful, just kind of “lost” because the writers wanted them too.

      David Rosenblatt,

      It feels like poor form to argue with a site author and moderator but… season 5 def had vitriol. This was the Sand Snakes intro season and Sansa choosing to marry Ramsay. I distinctly remember dragonfire spewed in all manner. This no excuse to spew vitriol to begin with.

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    72. Joseph Mobile,

      You’re talking about fundamentally different things. Beyond that the show had built up that breaking faith with Frey would be bad, Lord Walder was a villain who the audience did not see nor know much about. He did not have a character arc, did not spend eight seasons giving the audience a sense of who he was and what sort of moral behaviour was in-bounds. With Daenerys, the show did not (in the minds of many) successfully depict the journey necessary to make her actions credible.

      King in the North East,

      Roose is in the same boat as Walder, noted above.

      Stannis is actually a good comparison, because many felt the same thing, that the writers did not make his decision believable. Dany is worse, in that she actively demonstrated strong contrary sentiments.

      Literally nobody argued that Ramsay was out of character there. Basically every scene he was ever in established he was a psycho.

      The show turned Tyrion killing Shae into self-defense.

      Joffrey’s evil nature was well-established. He had already tried to kill Arya and been shown to be an entitled and arrogant prince. Ned’s death wasn’t shocking because it was inconsistent with Joffrey’s past character, but because Ned was assumed to have main character immunity.

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    73. Tron79,

      She had real vengeance because her family was killed by Cersei’s family

      I don’t think vengeance for her family had anything to do with it. She never knew her father nor brother, and while the former was indeed killed by Cersei’s brother (whom she could have killed when he was captured), the latter was killed by Robert before he married her, so not really Cersei’s fault (just like Dany felt with Gendry).

      The one brother she actually grew up with was killed by her own loved husband and she was actually ok with it and dismissed his death as “he was never a true dragon”

      Finally, when she actually finds out she has another family member not once she feels happy about it, quite the contrary.

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    74. King in the North East: I think a better example might be Roose Bolton.

      Why did he betray Robb? It seemingly came out of nowhere and up until that moment he’d been loyal and helped to fight the people he would suddenly betray the Starks for. So out of character.

      Of course no one was rooting for him.

      Here’s some more:

      Stannis burning Shireen? He would NEVER do such a thing! He clearly loves his daughter. Such inconsistent writing…

      Ramsey raping Sansa? Give me a break, Sansa’s going to outsmart him or Ramsey’s going to respect her because she’s his wife! Sansa is a player now, she can easily handle him. Wait? She does get raped? Terrible woman hating writers!

      Tyrion killing Shae? He loved her, so that made no sense. Killing someone you love out of the blue doesn’t just happen even if you feel betrayed. The writing on the show has gone to shit. At least it should’ve been set up better by having him talk about wanting to kill Shae over a couple of episodes.

      What about Joffrey? We knew he was a dick, but just ordering Ned killed like that? Totally out of character. Nothing we’d seen about him in season one would suggest that he was capable of that. Character assassination I call it!

      The lengths people will go to to justify their favorite characters…

      I dont know where to begin with this post lmao. There’s more details in the books but I’ll leave it show only.

      1) Roose betraying Robb out of nowhere? –Did we forget when Jaime was caught by Locke and sent to Roose at Harrenhal, Roose should have sent him back to Robb. He didnt but sent jaime on his way to KL. Why, I wonder?

      – Roose had told Robb he was going to send his Bastard to retake Winterfell. Later we see, not only was Winterfell retaken, it was burned to the ground. Hmmm.

      – Later we see Theon tortured by a “mysterious” stranger on an upside down X. That looks familiar…..

      Stannis burning Shireen:
      – when first we meet him, he was burning the images of the Seven, the gods he grew up with.
      – He certainly didnt mind killing his own flesh and blood brother to get what he wanted.
      – He burnt his own Hand, his own brother in law (some Florent), to further his cause.

      Tyrion can’t kill Shae because he loved her? That’s great! I’ll tell all those real life criminals where one spouse kills the other that they’re a special case. Nothing like that eveeer happens. Police are dumb to suspect the spouse as the 1st potential suspect.

      I can go on with your list but I’m tired. Look, one thing GRRM is great at is foreshadowing future events, no matter how shocking. I’ll wait to judge Danys turn if or when A Dream of Spring comes out, if ever.

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    75. King in the North East,

      Ramsey raping Sansa? Give me a break, Sansa’s going to outsmart him or Ramsey’s going to respect her because she’s his wife! Sansa is a player now, she can easily handle him. Wait? She does get raped? Terrible woman hating writers!

      Direct me to the individual who thought Sansa was going to outsmart Ramsay or thought this plot made any kind of sense.

      There were a myriad of problems with this plot. To pick on one though, why did Sansa choose to marry Ramsay in the first place? The rape is bad enough, but with the way it’s written Sansa appears to seek out this sadist for…well…I still haven’t gotten a valid reason for this character decision. Sansa’s decision was based on nothing more than the writer’s desire to prop up Ramsay imo.

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    76. Writing the ending of a good story is always the hardest part. Writing the ending of someone else’s genius story is nearly impossible. It’s still good TV but all of the criticisms are well deserved. A great story has ended up as a ” Blockbuster ” for the mass market. Great ratings I’m sure but very weak writing.

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    77. Solar:
      Tron79,

      I don’t think vengeance for her family had anything to do with it. She never knew her father nor brother, and while the former was indeed killed by Cersei’s brother (whom she could have killed when he was captured), the latter was killed by Robert before he married her, so not really Cersei’s fault (just like Dany felt with Gendry).

      The one brother she actually grew up with was killed by her own loved husband and she was actually ok with it and dismissed his death as “he was never a true dragon”

      Finally, when she actually finds out she has another family member not once she feels happy about it, quite the contrary.

      Regarding her brother Viserys, D&D seem to agree with you. They brought this up in the “inside the episode” that Dany has a history of being cold… Here’s the quote “There is something chilling about the way Dany has responded to the death of her enemies. Even when you look back to season one when Khal Drogo gives the golden crown to Viserys, and her reaction of watching her brother’s head melted off.”

      She has talked many times though about getting back what was taken for her family. Perhaps it’s not clear vengeance, but I saw it as a possible motivation. I saw a couple of motivations that didn’t have to mean she just went crazy. One was definitely that she chose to rule by fear instead of love.

      Perhaps Maester Aemon’s words were the most foreshadowing… “A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing”.

      You are correct that she is really not alone. Jon is now part of her Targ family, but she is feeling totally alone after Jon told his secret. He put his Stark family first instead of her. I really didn’t buy that she would feel that isolated just because the North didn’t give her any love. She should have realized that North never welcomes outsiders (even if they are coming to help). But Jon’s betrayal was a real betrayal in her mind. He didn’t put her first, and he chose the Starks as his true family.

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    78. Che,

      The Dragonpit scene makes me wonder what is going on. We know Emilia didn’t film and we think Kit maybe did but it wasn’t much. The Unsullied were supposedly there so a trial is possible. I wonder if we may see Dany on Drogon looking over everyone and telling them to ‘bend the knee’ or burn. She likely wants Sansa and Tyrion dead because they blabbed about Jon. What if Jon was kept away while she did this and Dany does burn Tyrion and Sansa with Jon arriving too late to do anything? Really struggling to think what could be going on. I like your idea of Jon’s coronation though.

      It look as though the shots of Jon and Cersei in KL were a ruse though!

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    79. Can we talk about the lack of follow through of the prophecies? I knew they wouldn’t do the three-headed dragon. But what was all that about Cersei’s ‘little brother’? And what was the whole point of Azor Ahai and that whole storyline? I knew they didn’t develop them well enough to follow through on all of them, but they didn’t even follow through on one. Am I the only one here seriously disappointed in that? All those years of fan speculation and theory crafting for this hollywood-ized end? I think the only one they followed through on was R+L=J but even that was for …. what???

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    80. Mladen,

      I have to disagree, there have been a lot of moments which have led up to Dany being pushed over the edge, over the course of several seasons and this season especially there have been numerous. Most people knew that her going mad was a possibility, and personally I am glad it wasn’t spelled out to us so obviously, because I would much rather watch a TV show which surprises and shocks me than one which is predictable. As others have said, it seems like people just want to hate on the show because they cannot accept Dany as a villain, plain and simple.

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    81. Ghostgirl,

      Yikes! That is a convincing idea. I hadn’t thought of that! I didn’t remember there being unsullied there. What if she’s burning Jon?! What if that’s how he dies?? Ahhhhh!!!!!

      And yes, it does look like that was a ruse. Ha! A good one too!

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    82. I have been off the boards for a couple days and just came back now…HOLY CRIKEY people are losing their minds. Some of you have gone literally nuts actively despising D&D for what they did as well as actors themselves. I mean…yikes. I feel very sorry for the hate mongers out there.

      D&D was going to screw this up no matter what. ANY show runner would have with the amount of characters to wrap up. Seems like everyone wanted more and more episodes and that D&D just didn’t want to do it even tho HBO would have had backed up a truck. Maybe. No one truly knows.

      I will say that if they added episodes we absolutely would not have gotten the two big ass battles we just got. Spectacles greater than most movies and directed by a genius. And maybe that is the conversation. Seems like a lot of you want the “earlier seasons” feel where it’s focused dialogue and scheming and massive character development. Slower paced. Now that we know the ending, maybe focused on the slow demise of Dany. Maybe she burns a few innocents. With Varys planning a betrayal over 4 episodes. More Golden Company interactions from Cersei. The WW battle going over 2-3 episodes. Night King interaction. The list goes on. But I am 100% of a mind that this would have been so…dang…boring. And predictable. And cliche as the build up was going on. And every one of you would have yelled this.

      And then the cast grew and grew and GRRM said, “Well, here’s the ending so figure out how to get there.”

      So D&D had to make a decision on how to finish this off. This is not Downtown Abbey. There will be battles because that’s what most people like. And want to see.

      The Wight Hunt?? Weak plot. Littlefinger death? A bit forced. Varys death? A bit hurried. Dany choosing to burn everyone? I really don’t know how much more foreshadowing needs to be done but a lot of you hated this saying it made no sense and she went ballistic for no reason. I disagree but whatever. I understand the rationale for the other side.

      But OH FRICKIN WELL. If this show causes so much anger and pain for you that you have to lash out in frustration and make sure everyone knows how pissed off you are…honestly, please take a break from the boards. There is one more episode and then it’s all over. Less than a week and then 10+ years for a lot of us is finished.

      I have read most of you for years and have loved your posts. It’s frustrating to see the turn you have taken overall and I just hope after some distance you can revisit and appreciate the ride. Try not to get mired in the details of everything…it will suck you down a deep dark hoLe.

      As you tee up to lay into me as a Fanboy and apologist, just know that I appreciate your passion and hope you enjoy the last episode of the greatest TV show ever made.

      Outside of Alf.

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    83. Che,

      I hoping it’s not Jon’s death! But I do wonder if Drogon would do it. Yes, he’s loyal to Dany but he knows Jon is a Targ same as Dany. Would love to see Drogon just look back like ‘Are you serious?’. It’s a strange scene that I’m not quite sure what’s going on, especially as Emilia wasn’t there and Kit was only there for a couple of days. Hmm.

      Yeah, I was totally convinced that Jon was being an idiot (again) in seeing Cersei. It was just before the last ep that I realised Lena was wearing Cersei’s black dress not the red she favoured later. That was a good ruse!

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    84. I loved last Sunday’s episode. But the more I read discussions here and on other pages, the more I’m starting to appreciate it on an additional level.
      In the last few days, I’ve seen it brought up many times how Dany’s homicidal streak has been foreshadowed throughout the series. And I’ve seen people respond to this question with “Yeah, you’re a smartass now, how come you weren’t worried about Dany’s morals a few weeks ago?” And that’s actually a really valid question. Sure, indiscriminately crucifying 163 masters, including some who were just guilty by association, probably left us all feeling a bit uncomfortable, but why didn’t it leave us feeling much more uncomfortable than that? Why didn’t we question more whether Dany really was one of “the good guys” (and for the record, same could be said eg. about indiscriminately poisoning a room full of Freys)?
      I can’t help but think of some of Michael Haneke’s movies, which are partly about what happens in the movie itself, but also partly about how we react to it, why we enjoy or support certain outcomes and what it says about us.
      I guess what this imperfect steam of thought here was trying to convey is that I really appreciate Dany’s storyline for making me want to ponder these questions. Because yeah, the signs were all there, why were we so willing to ignore them?

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    85. I liked Todd -impossible last name- in Vox: indeed, the biggest losers are all those people who have named their baby girls “Khaleesi”.

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    86. You can turn and twist it as you like, burning KL completely with friends, enemies and mostly civilians inside after the city surrendered. Stil does not make sense, especially as the trailer suggests she wants to rule in KL On the other side the trailer for episode 6 again found a lot unsullied again out of nowhere.
      I will insert a short scene where Dany demands Cersei to get out of the red keep, give back the throne she stole or she burns down the city. As Cersei does not – Danny gets on Drogon and starts Armageddon, maybe some dudes begging to do not. This will not change the overall story, but satisfy me. Lawyered.

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    87. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      Beautifully put. The only critic I understand is that some are afraid the show will end nihilistic. Because that’s something I will want to see either. But we are not there yet.

      And I had a brainfart just now, I read Youtube Terrorists instead of theorist.

      Iul,

      WTF, find the strength what to do? killing half a million is find the strength what too do? Nothing she did here was out of strength (as stated by D&D and Emilia herself), it was all about the emotion of her home and everything else. What she was here is weak if you want to appoint how strong she was here.

      If she was strong and had the patience of waiting she should have fly out of KL. Drop her dragon somewhere safe. Make sure her armies secured the red keeps boundaries. Make sure the soldiers that just dropped their swords were in chains (So they could swear fealty once she was queen). After that happened, she could enter KL without Drogon with bodyguards and speak to the people that she is here to free them of Cersei and that they will live freely from now on. After that they could dispose of Cersei. It was nothing more then impatience of her.

      It still baffles me that some can defend her action her and call it strength. Disgusting.

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    88. Fiery Heart,

      Well, I don’t know when shock became the other word for quality. Everyone seems to regard shock as some sort of metric unit for quality. Yes, TV drama shouldn’t be boring and predictable, but it should make much more sense. If the most people didn’t get something, than by all means, something didn’t work. I have friends who analyzed ASOIAF for years and have been predicting Dany being the Mad Queen and was completely thrown off with this episode. Why? Because, they believe it didn’t happen organically. Now, they may be wrong. I have no issues with Dany burning King’s Landing (other than moral ones, that is),

      Simply, when I think of the great finales we have seen on TV, from “Breaking Bad” and “Six Feet Under” to “The Americans” (the last one bringing devastation, surprise and shock without a drop of blood being spilled), the last season of “Game of thrones” simply fades. Because it has abandoned its most important foundation – human drama. It was never about expensive CGI, dragons or zombies. People fell in love because of human drama, the most profound issues of human existence. That was no where to be found this season. Hence, the obvious dislike for the season.

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    89. Tron79,

      You stated they feared the Mad King and he is a legends. And you don’t think Dany will have the same standards after this in history books?
      And it’s just as derogatory with her father. Or do you think people liked him and admire him? His first half of his life where he was a guy who was helping the common folk was overshadowed by his short Mad term.

      King in the North East,

      The most funny thing I heard was people complaining about the writing and that it was correlated with lack of nudity.

      Rodent,

      Because her victims were the scum of the earth in the earlier seasons, so we rooted for her.

      It’s the same for Dexter, if you know that show. We all routed for Dexter because he killed only other murderers who got away from the law and got free. How could we not? He is cleaning up the scum that walk your streets making it a safer place for you. But that doesn’t make Dexter a good person, he is still a person who needs to kill, who is in fact not such a good guy after all.

      Or Walter White (breaking Bad). We all routed for him because he was providing for his family which was a good cause. We should have know from episode 1 he was not such a good guy, as he explained in the final: He did it all for his own ego. But somehow we all got shocked when he watched somebody die instead of helping her. We were still shocked when he let his partner kill another guy. And we were shocked when he poisoned a child and didn’t care if it would have killed him to stay alive himself. Or should we have seen it the moment he forced Jesse to work for him in the first season?

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    90. Sean C.: Literally nobody argued that Ramsay was out of character there. Basically every scene he was ever in established he was a psycho.

      Not what I meant. They thought Sansa was out of character for letting it happen.

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    91. Tycho Nestoris,

      Well, obviously I didn’t save any of those conversations. But I do remember people online saying that. I really do.

      But what is memory…

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    92. Bobdole,

      Yes, and all of that is similar to the foreshadowing Dany would burn a city.

      I was being intentionally overdramatic to prove a point.

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    93. Mladen,

      But why obsess over how Dany goes crazy rather than just accept that she does go crazy? Because in doing that you are missing out on the strength of the episode, and you’re choosing to do so. Showing the violence and destruction that is inflicted on innocent people in war was powerful and moving especially. How or why Dany goes crazy just seems less important to me, I just go along for the ride and accept that is what takes place in the story and yes I think it adds merit that it was also a bit of a surprise. It is conceivable that she may also not have flipped, but she did. A lot of film and tv critics have praised the episode, are they just all wrong then? I understand where you’re coming from I just think you are missing the point that you could just choose to enjoy this experience and accept the story as it unfolds. At least take it with a pinch of salt, I don’t think making a show on this scale is too easy to pull off.

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    94. Mladen,

      Oh, yes. The ending of “The Americans” was stunning and beautiful. It was always one of my favourite shows, but after that ending it became the favourite show of mine!

      That is what I have in mind when I say excellent scrypt is everything and that is what got me hooked to “Game of Thrones” when it began airing. The difference between then and now is so evident in favour of the earlier seasons.

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    95. Sou,

      I read it too now and still don’t get how she could start to rape KL with all the Dothraki and unsullied including Greyworm still inside. May it be fear – destroying the red keep with a Dragon is more than enough for that. For the show it seems not a problem that there is not much left to rule, maybe because there will be enough and I am just overthinking it too much. What you see is what you get is no longer important, so I will turn my brain on standby.

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    96. King in the North East,

      Sansa was absolutely out of character for going to Winterfell in the first place, unless she was meant to be a total moron.

      But as far as people’s reactions to how she handled that particular moment, I don’t especially blame people for assuming that, after all the buildup and the endless posing-in-goth-outfits, we were going to see Sansa handle the situation. A lot of viewers only swallowed the contrivance of her going to Winterfell on the assumption that she and Littlefinger had some great scheme that we were going to see pay off.

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    97. Sean C.:
      Joseph Mobile,
      With Daenerys, the show did not (in the minds of many) successfully depict the journey necessary to make her actions credible.

      Then those people haven’t been paying attention. She has referenced burning down cities many times, including King’s Landing. She has crucified innocent people, fed an innocent person to two of her dragons, burned the Tarly’s alive, among other things. She sacrificed one of her dragons and a good portion of her army to save Westeros from an Ice Zombie Apocalypse. Still, the people of Westeros would only see her as the Mad King’s daughter, so that’s what she gave them. As she said, if she couldn’t rule them with love, she’d rule them with fear.

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    98. Young Dragon,

      No, they were paying attention. Daenerys never once indicated she was the sort of person who would deliberately massacre thousands of innocent people. Other than that one master she had killed by dragons, everybody else she executed via dragonfire was provably guilty of actions that would have warranted execution by the likes of Jon Snow. She didn’t crucify innocent people, she crucified slavers responsible for Meereen’s cruel system.

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    99. Sean C.,

      Some of those slavers she crucified were innocent of the crime she was punishing them for. Also, she wanted to burn Yunkai and Astapor down after they attacked Mereen and she wanted to set all three of her dragons on King’s Landing as soon as she arrived in Westeros, only her advisers talked her down. She always had dark impulses, but her advisers kept them in check. She didn’t care about the lives of innocent civilians then, and that was before everything started going to shit. She lost Ser Barristan. She lost Viserion, Jorah, and a good portion of her army fighting the Army of the Dead to save Westeros. She lost Missandei and Rhaegal not long after. She discovered that her dream of becoming Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, something she has wanted since her brother’s death, was about to be stolen from her by the man she loves, someone who no longer wants to be with her. Varys and Sansa plotted to overthrow her, despite everything she sacrificed to save them from certain death. Tyrion was aware of this, but kept it from her until it was almost too late. She had lost three of her most trusted advisers, was betrayed by another and lost all confidence in the fifth. At that point, she was alone, isolated, forced to come to the realization that no matter what she did, the people of Westeros would never love her, and if she couldn’t have their love, she would have their fear. This had more set up than the Red Wedding, than Cersei blowing up the Sept of Baelor, than Littlefinger’s betrayal and Ned’s execution. Dany’s entire arc was leading to this moment and it was set up perfectly.

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    100. I finally had a chance to re-watch tonight. This is the first chance I had where I didn’t have to wake up early and I could watch totally alone with headphones in the dark on my nice TV. I have to say Sapochnik deserves awards for this episode. The production design team deserves massive awards for their construction (and planned destruction) of the KL city. The most stunning shots for me were near the end with Arya as she was covered with ash as the ashes came down from overhead like snow. Her silhouette was just incredible, and I may never forget that scene now that I viewed it in an optimal setting.

      This time around, I could see that Dany never even came close to agreeing to accepting surrender when Tyrion was talking to her about the bells at Dragonstone. She said very clearly that she was going with fear. She said mercy would be for the next generation. I recalled that mercy is one of the main things that killed Ned Stark. He wanted to give Cersei a chance to save herself and her children. This mistake led to his undoing. I still have issues with Dany’s story, but this time around it worked much better for me. She really never wavered from going total fire and blood on KL and Cersei. It was all Tyrion who had the plan of the bells, and she never even nodded like she was taking him seriously at that point.

      I found it striking that Arya’s escape was mirroring what was happening to Sandor as he fought the mountain. Arya was knocked to the ground and almost died just as Sandor was knocked to the ground by the mountain and almost died. I really didn’t notice this synchronicity the first watch through. This was all Sapochnik. Originally it was planned to just follow Arya for 9 or 12 minutes, and he decided to cut back and forth between Arya and the Cleganebowl. The editing was fantastic. I felt even more for Sandor when it seemed like Arya was feeling the blows at the same time. It was like they still had a connection together.

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    101. My prediction now will be bran is going to be showing Jon what happens to KL if he doesn’t take the throne.

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    102. Frank,

      I think that it’s possible that the city gets burned even when she only targets the Red Keep (for reasons of fear). Same results for KL, but with Daenerys not completely turned into a mass murderer. But it does seem very much that she intended to teach Westeros a lesson and her mind had been made up in advance. From a historical perspective, many cities often burned when they had a lot of wooden buildings. KL can’t have been all stone, a least flea bottom should have had wooden houses. This would be an argument for Tyrion against using a dragon, trying to prevent fire spreading. The way that Drogon took out all the scorpions with such precision, she could have just destroyed Cersei in S7. Or at least the Greyjoy fleet. Furthermore, if Drogon would have been less controllable, he would also breathe fire even when she doesn’t want to. When in E5 Daenerys sees that Cersei in the Red Keep doesn’t surrender, she can still decide to burn it down. I think the reference to Harrenhall fits. But then as collateral damage (fire spreading, Drogon less controllable) the city burns as well, perhaps even before the Red Keep when fire on the city walls sets nearby houses aflame. But that collateral damage is different from actively targeting KL citizens and her own troups, and, for me, it would be more in agreement with her character, despite the build-up.

      At the moment I don’t see how the story could end bittersweet. KL destroyed by Daenerys is more than bitter, and next week maybe Tyrion, Daenerys or some of the Starks dead… It’s not like Daenerys will find out she has Jon’s baby and they all live happily together after…

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    103. Young Dragon,

      Dany wanted to attack King’s Landing and do the thing that she did prior to just deciding to burn the whole city.

      As for her threats to the slaver cities, she also talked about crucifying the masters, etc. Those were expressions of rage, not an actual plan to burn down the cities with slave populations inside.

      We’re talking about somebody who chained her dragons up because of one inadvertent civilian fatality.

      The show set up a Daenerys who was willing to risk collateral damage to end the war. It in no way set up Daenerys becoming Adolf Hitler, and worse than Joffrey and Ramsay combined.

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    104. Tron79,

      Makes more sense that she was already 90% sure she was going to burn it down, and she lost that 10% of what Tyrion was planning. She just went with what Grey worm and her wanted, to burn them all down. I think it makes sense, Grey worm was looking the whole time at Dany as if he was waiting for a signal to happen. Maybe the snap was already happening for a big time in the 2 weeks that Jon went to Dragonstone.

      I understand now why people are hung up about the runtime. They could easily have shown those 2 weeks, having the journey of Jaime, Sandor Arya etc, a little bit of winterfell. And let this episode end with Dany winning, and the snap could have been the cliff and the next could be the horror in KL.

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    105. Sean C.,

      ah there you have it, she said that in rage. A good leader should not have that many moments of rage, look up online about theses about what makes a good leader (better look for the business leadership because there’s more papers on it, and Harvard has one, that theses can be used for world leaders even more). She checks in a lot of boxes what a bad leader makes. (she would be a good military leader which needs to hold the laws of the king of queen). Rage and anger is a very bad sign of a leader, even when facing those defeats she should have reacted levelheaded not with rage.

      other boxes she fits that makes her unfit for leadership:
      – the need to be loved. A leader should have satisfaction from within, he should never expect the love of the ones he rules over. A good leader even does his job right even when the people hates him.
      – Feeling that they are the ones destined for the job, and have no faith that other’s can do it.
      – Feeling threatened that other’s take you down.
      – Childhood trauma that influence you’re decision making.
      – Not wanting to here if you make a mistake in you’re leadership and be defensive about it.

      https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/why-leaders-lose-their-way

      Theses of leadership. Put Dany over it and you have you’re answer that it made perfect sense what we saw here. It was already clear in season 1 that Dany will end of here.

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    106. kevin1989,

      Yes, I think she was 90% there. And now that you mention it, Grey Worm was all the way there IMHO after the scene with Dany near the fire. He left his humanity behind as he burned Missandei’s last possession. And what was Missandei’s last wish? Yep, “Dracarys”. So taken altogether it works for me this time around. Dany’s team other than Tyrion (and Jon) were really all Dracarys. Dany perhaps thought about not going through with it as the 10% you mentioned. Yep, as you said, it would have been nice to have time for us to process what was happening to the characters. I think the huge budget it must have taken to build and destroy KL used up all the money. That part is sad. But I can appreciate this episode much more now.

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    107. question I want to post a comment, but I get a message that the page is not found. What can be the reason of that?

      edit: strangely this post can be post. Are there some letters that make a error?

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    108. Tron79,

      they should just have made 2 seperated seasons of 5 episodes each with half year in between. Meaning it was 2 seasons, meaning it was double the budget.

      Hbo wouldn’t have mind if they did that. D&D are amazing writers, but I have the feeling they got big bucks from Disney and Disney wanted them to start as soon as possible on their SW saga.

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    109. Sean C.,

      Your argument is very weak. If she talked about burning down cities that many times, they weren’t just expressions of rage. She meant exactly what she said, and you know it.

      Yes, she chained her dragons up. And then, she didn’t. She no longer cared about the damage they could cause.

      And you are completely forgetting what happened when she actually arrived in Westeros and how characters in this show tend to evolve. When she came to Westeros, she expected to be treated the same way she was treated in Essos, as a savior sent to rid the country of a tyrant. She expected to be loved. Only, she wasn’t. As time went on, she eventually came to a realization. She could launch a campaign to take down a dictator, she could save the King in the North from death, sacrificing one more her children in the process, she could suspend her goals of taking back the Iron Throne by fighting the Army of the Dead and save Westeros, but nothing will ever change. Sansa still plots against her, the northerners still prefer Jon as their king, the people Westeros still fear her more than Cersei, and why? Because they will always see her as the Mad King’s daughter. Add in Missandei and Rhaegal’s death, Jon’s parentage reveal, and Tyrion and Varys’s betrayal, it would be enough to send anybody over the edge. In that moment, she chose the rule the people of Westeros in fear, since they wouldn’t allow her to rule them with love, and she said mercy was for the next generation. I see you conventiently forget about that part.

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    110. Young Dragon,

      No, she never demonstrated any desire to kill civilians. People can say otherwise til they’re blue in the face, but the show did not demonstrate that.

      She chained her dragons up because she couldn’t control them, and then stopped doing that because magically she could again. It wasn’t because she decided not to care about civilian casualties.

      I didn’t “conveniently forget” that. Ruling through fear also doesn’t mean committing genocide. She was talking about using aggressive force to take the city, not to obliterate the city after she had won.

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    111. Cersei about Joffrey in season 3 final: He was all I had once.Before Myrcella was born. I used to spend hours looking at him. His wisps of hair. His tiny little hands and feet. He was such a jolly little fellow.
      You always hear the terrible ones were terrible babies.
      “We should have known. Even then we should have known. It’s nonsense.
      Whenever he was with me, he was happy.And no one can take that away from me, not even Joffrey– how it feels to have someone.Someone of your own.

      Thought of that today when thinking of Dany. We should have known.

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    112. Sean C.,

      And you can say there was no foreshadowing until you’re blue in the face, but that doesn’t make it true. I mean, when a character says that they are going to burn down cities ad nauseum, and then actually does it, how can you say it wasn’t foreshadowed? The foreshadowing wasn’t even that subtle. “When my dragons are grown, they will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.” “I will cross the Narrow Sea and take back what was stolen from me. With fire and blood, I will take it.” What exactly did you think that meant? Burning down cities means massacring hundreds of thousands of innocent people, so you’re wrong, she did demonstrate her desire to kill innocent people.

      What? The dragons just magically were under Dany’s control? That’s the best argument you can come up with? No, it’s clear she no longer cared about the collateral damage.

      No, ruling with fear means ruling with fear. She accepted surrender once after the Loot Train Battle, but the status quo hadn’t changed. The lords of Westeros still didn’t follow her. With the destruction of King’s Landing, she sent a powerful message to all the lords of Westeros what would happen if they didn’t fall in line.

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    113. Sean C.,

      Question to you, if her advisers didn’t stop her from burning Yunkaii and Astapor to the ground. do you think she would just pick of the baddies like you see in a videogame where magically the innocents were saved? If she wasn’t stopped there, innocents would have died. That’s the reason why her advisers stopped her, they didn’t stop her because she was going to kill baddies, but they stopped her because the innocents would have been casualties of that action.

      Her not killing innocents before was more because of her advisers then herself. Yes 90% of the time she stopped herself. She was not insane back then. But those 10% is still 10% too much. In leadership emotion should never be part of your decision making.

      I’m wondering if at the end we get a psychological theses of Dany from universities. I read a while back they did some theses about Joffrey what made him do the horrors he did.

      I think it’s a combination of PTSD, Anxiety disorder (I have/had it and I see it in her), Bordeline Personality disorder (which make sense with her traumas)

      Jon has a hero complex. And more characters suffered from PTSD in the show. I’m wondering what others think.

      I read that Joffrey had Conduct Disorder and Sadistic Personality Disorder I checked it just now.

      ps. Not saying I’m right with Dany but I found psychological findings with GoT very interesting.

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    114. Young Dragon,

      That first specific line you quote was her trying to intimidate her way into Qarth when they were on the verge of death. The second one, meanwhile, says nothing about mass murder of civilians — it’s no different than when Sansa says she will reclaim Winterfell.

      Indeed, that’s the best argument, because that’s what happened. She couldn’t control the dragons, then suddenly she could, just like she suddenly knew how to ride and command Drogon. It was extremely lazy writing, because the showrunners essentially ignored what the books depict as a real challenge. If the point of that was supposed to be that Dany no longer cared, we would have seen the dragons continue to harm people.

      She had already conquered the city and put fear into everyone, as she said she would. Again, no buildup for suddenly turning into Ramsay Bolton times a hundred.

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    115. Sean C.,

      Whenever I try to get invited in a home I will not threaten them, especially when it could mean the demise of the people that I’m with. She had the luck Qarth didn’t murder them right there for that threat.

      Most people beg in that moment to get help, and she had luck that Xaro had a plan with her else she would have starved there.

      bullshit about Sansa reclaiming Winterfell. Which civilian did Jon/Sansa and co killed? Right none. They attacked the ones with the swords in their hands. It was Ramsay who killed an unarmed Man not the Starks there.

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    116. Sean C.,

      Ok, let’s recap your argument. When she threatens to burn down cities, first it’s “she doesn’t really mean it,” then it’s “that doesn’t mean the deaths of civilians,” as if she’ll simply miss them, however that works. When she says she wishes to rule with fear, that, according to you, does not mean committing horrific acts of violence/war crimes to make the people of Westeros afraid of her. And when she stops chaining up her dragons, it’s not because she no longer cares about how dangerous they are, but because she magically has control of them. I find it rich that you accuse the showrunners of lazy writing when you come up with such a lazy argument.

      Conquering King’s Landing wouldn’t make the lords of Westeros fear her, no more than it would if it had been Stannis, Renly, or Robb. Burning King’s Landing definitely would have that result.

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    117. Fiery Heart,

      I understand that some corners of fandom wish that others didn’t exist. But, just as we have positive criticism, we have negative. We can’t exist in the world where one side doesn’t exist as both sides have been rather vocal about what worked and what didn’t in the last episode, and ultimately this season.

      Why was it important to show us the road to madness? Because that is what a good TV drama should do. That was what GoT has been doing in earlier years. That is why people fell in love with these characters. We have seen how Ned’s honor and nobility lead him into his death. We have seen how Jaime and Cersei have been developed from incestuous couple who threw a child off the window to flawed people who have to live with what they have done. We have seen Theon’s descend into Reek, Sansa’s learning curve. And that was what we loved. Oh, yeah, dragons were cool, but we all stayed because the characters were written on such level that comparisons with cult-TV dramas such as Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, Wire, Six Feet Under or Lost always made sense. Oh, Tyrion is like Walter White or Don Draper? Certainly.

      And then we got this. It is not important how she got there, we are supposed to make some logical hoops to get there. And that is why critics and audience attacked that moment when Daenerys flew on Drogon on Red Keep. Because it felt inorganic and it felt not like a treason of just character, but a treason of everything we loved about this adaptation. Screw CGI or expensive production, bring us our characters back. That is what always mattered the most.

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    118. Young Dragon,

      I can’t speak for anyone else, but, when Dany had previously threatened to kill people or burn cities it was because things either weren’t going her way or she was referring to her enemies. Right or wrong, I think that’s been pretty consistent.

      The problem that I personally had with Dany’s heel turn in episode 5 is that she got what she wanted, everything went her way, but she still went on to burn the city anyway. That was inconsistent for me. YMMV.

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    119. rtnl rd n th hm strtch rn f GT.

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2019/05/14/it-is-now-clear-having-two-short-game-of-thrones-final-seasons-was-a-mistake/#45a2f93a788a

      The last two seasons of GoT are so abbreviated, it is often as if one were reading entire paragraphs of text with all the vowels removed. Anyone remember the Readers Digest Condensed Novels series?

      Gone With the Wind
      “Oh Ashley!”
      “Look! Our boys are so dashing and gallant in their uniforms as they march off to war.”
      BOOM!
      AARRGGGHH!
      FIRE!
      “Our boys are all either dead or maimed! The Carpetbaggers are at our throats.”
      “I’ll never go hungry again!”
      “I’ll use the curtains.”
      “Oh Rhett!”
      “Frankly my dear…”

      The Forbes writer argues for another 13 or so episodes, while citing GRRM’s comments about running the series to 12-13 seasons. I’d have been happy with another 4-5 episodes.

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    120. Mr Derp: she got what she wanted, everything went her way

      Did it? She lost several battles, her best friend, Jorah, most of her allies, Jon’s love, a legitimate claim for the throne, 2 dragons in addition to suffering a betrayal and realizing no one wanted her on the throne.

      She may have won that battle, but she lost nearly everything getting there.

      I think she was just like “fuck it, I’m going to rule, no matter what, otherwise everything I have lost has been for nothing” and the only way she (thought she) could do that was through fear and overwhelming force.

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    121. Mladen,

      I think we should have had what was episode 4, stretched in 2 or 3 episodes. Episode 1 of it the north. Episode 2 second part with a little bit more Missandei Episode 3 what happened between episode 4 and 5 what we missed plus maybe the death of Varys or until she seems to have won the battle.

      But that’s more a episode 4 problem then a episode 5 problem in my eyes.

      Mr Derp,

      She literary stated to Jon before that if she can’t get love she will go the fear route. She told the audience right there that she was going to do it. We all though she cooled down because she went with Tyrion’s plan, but clearly she didn’t.

      My only question is, did she really go along with Tyrion’s plan and hoped it would work or was it more a plan of her to make Jon etc help her get the iron throne. The more I think of it the more I think they didn’t show those 2 weeks because she already made plans with Grey Worm to go genocide route. (and if they showed that it wouldn’t be a surprise anymore, just like we didn’t saw Walder talking about killing Robb)

      Grey worm was constantly focused on Dany when the kings guard were unarmed, like he was waiting for her signal. I think the switch was not in that moment but her going insane was already between episode 4 and 5. She even stated Jon betrayed her, that was already a sign she was mental at that moment and paranoid.
      I think she had in her head the following: If I saved the people and they love me I will not go ballistic, but if they show fear, I will give them fear.

      And to add, no she didn’t got what she want. What she wanted was the love of the people which she didn’t get. That’s a great gamechanger for a person who wants love as she stated to Jon before: I don’t have love on this side of the sea. She really really wants that.

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    122. King in the North East: Did it? She lost several battles, her best friend, Jorah, most of her allies, Jon’s love, a legitimate claim for the throne, 2 dragons in addition to suffering a betrayal and realizing no one wanted her on the throne.

      She may have won that battle, but she lost nearly everything getting there.

      I think she was just like “fuck it, I’m going to rule, no matter what, otherwise everything I have lost has been for nothing” and the only way she (thought she) could do that was through fear and overwhelming force.

      Everything went her way during the battle for KL. That’s what I’m referring to. So yes, everything went her way that day. I think I’ve been pretty clear on this.

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    123. kevin1989,

      I don’t know, I’m fine with the concise storytelling we’re getting. I also don’t think people would’ve changed their minds even if Dany’s actions had been more heavily foreshadowed this season.

      She could’ve said “I will burn Kings Landing and all of its citizens to the groud and no one will be able to stop me” and I think people would still be saying it came out of nowhere and was out of character.

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    124. kevin1989: She literary stated to Jon before that if she can’t get love she will go the fear route. She told the audience right there that she was going to do it.

      Sigh.

      Yes, I know she said she’ll go the fear route. However, fear doesn’t necessarily have to translate to torching an entire city and murdering thousands of innocent civilians. Fear can be nothing more than intimidation.

      Saying she’ll rule by fear doesn’t spell out that she’s about to commit genocide.

      If you think the Dany turning heel plot worked well for you, then good for you. I’m genuinely happy for you. It didn’t work for me. I’ve gotten over it and moved on, but I still have opinions on how it went down. As do many others.

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    125. King in the North East:
      Mr Derp,

      Okay. But it doesn’t negate what I said.

      It doesnt negate what I said either, so you seem to be arguing for the sake of it.

      She lost everything to get there, yes, but she was still acting rationally right up until the burning of KL. In fact, she was right about everything. She was correct about Sansa, she was correct about Varys, etc… Jon was the one who was being ridiculously naive about the whole thing to a frustrating degree.

      If losing everything to get there was supposed to be the impetus for her losing control then it should’ve happened prior to the day she burned KL, IMO. The writers just wanted the shock to be more impactful, so they held back a bit until the last moment, which I found to be pretty cheap.

      of course, YMMV and that’s fine.

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    126. Mr Derp,

      True, that’s why I also stated that maybe they should have made episode 4 in 3 separated episodes. We should have seen the transition between the woman at the and of 4 and beginning of 5, she changed already there.

      but to add to the Jon part, last episode when she was more sane she even stated 10.000 innocence could die if that means Cersei would be dethroned. (somehow people seems to forget that)

      And maybe 6 will put a better light on what happened, at least I hope it does for you.

      Mr Derp,

      Rationally before that I think we watched a different episode. Wasn’t she irrationally before it with Jon that was a couple of hours before? Wasn’t she irrationally against Tyrion, just maybe a half hour before the battle? Yes she pulled herself together but somebody who is so fueled with emotion (even when she was right) can’t hide that for too long when put away, that dam is going to be breached. It’s like holding a dam together with duct-tape, yes it will hold for a while but after a while it just snaps.

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    127. kevin1989: It’s like holding a dam together with duct-tape, yes it will hold for a while but after a while it just snaps.

      Yes, if things continued to snowball and get worse, I would agree. However, things got better for her. She won the battle, and KL surrendered, yet went nuts anyway, which is why I didn’t like the way they did it.

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    128. Mr Derp: Yes, if things continued to snowball and get worse, I would agree.However, things got better for her.She won the battle, and KL surrendered, yet went nuts anyway, which is why I didn’t like the way they did it.

      That’s not how emotions work. When I was depressed with anxiety attacks, the moment things went better was the moment everything exploded with the emotions. So in that way it’s very logical if in fact things did go her way, which I highly disagree with. Because the thing she wants most was to be loved by the people, and what kind of emotion did they show her? Love or something else? You could clearly saw it in her eyes the moment those people screamed for Cersei (by naming her the queen) in fear that that was a moment the bubble burst.

      Do I think the preparation for it should be 10x better yes last episode we ended with a angry Dany (Who looked very sane) and episode 5 started with her already looking like somebody who lost her mind. We missed that transition that I really wanted to see, and should have been in the show.

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    129. Mr Derp: of course, YMMV and that’s fine.

      What does that mean? Seriously asking.

      No, I’m not arguing for the sake of it any more than you are. And be fair, there’s nothing in that comment that made it clear you were just talking about that battle.

      What I meant was that it worked for me because of this. And what I’m getting at is that she believes she’s not going to be able to hang on to the throne by just ending the battle there. This is her chance to show she’s ruthless.

      And possibly she also just wanted to send a message to Cercei: you think you can hide behind your citizens? Here’s what I’m gonna do to your citizens!

      That could have been her revenge, showing Cercei she’s more ruthless than her.

      She said that she cares more about future innocents than current innocents as a way of justifying her actions.

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    130. Your mileage may vary (YMMV).

      It’s just another way of saying your opinion differs from mine and that’s ok.

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    131. Mr Derp:
      Your mileage may vary (YMMV).

      It’s just another way of saying your opinion differs from mine and that’s ok.

      Agree to disagree right? 😀

      And you’re right with that. If everyone shared the same opinion, the world would be boring, thankfully it’s not.

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    132. kevin1989: And you’re right with that. If everyone shared the same opinion, the world would be boring, thankfully it’s not.

      I disagree with that.

      😉

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    133. Let me get off the topic of Dany turning heel, because it was really the only issue I had with the episode, albeit a pretty big one. I don’t want that to dominate my thoughts on the episode as a whole.

      I thought this was one of the best episodes in GoT’s history. All of the final conversations were great. Everything from Tyrion and Jaime’s final conversation, Cersei and Jaime’s final conversation, and Sandor/Arya’s. They all hit the right notes for me. I think Cersei deserved a worse death too, but I like how vulnerable she was in the end.

      May I also say how much I enjoy Ramin’s score in this episode? It was pretty simple, but sometimes simple is perfection. Much of time musicians feel like they need to fill up every inch of space with noise, but sometimes space allows notes to breathe and make them more impactful.

      That droning, thumping, sound that anticipated the beginning of the battle was awesome! Add to that the glissando of the droning notes going up and down the scale was a great addition.

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    134. Mr Derp,

      I’m happy you liked the rest 😀

      And yes the music was great, I didn’t like the music often except theme songs like rains of Castamere. But the soundtrack of this season is amazing.

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    135. kevin1989:
      Mr Derp,

      I’m happy you liked the rest 😀

      And yes the music was great, I didn’t like the music often except theme songs like rains of Castamere. But the soundtrack of this season is amazing.

      If I had to pick a favorite song in the entirety of GoT, it would have to be a tie between “The Light of the Seven” and “The Rains of Castamere”.

      If I recall correctly, there was kind of a mash-up between those two songs last episode when Cersei died as well as during the closing credits.

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    136. Nothing went right for Danny, because for this she will die next Sunday. I do not see another outcoming when I remember Jon’s facial expressions. For funny twists maybe Jon and Danny get on Drogon and ride into the sunset whiles Sansa finally will be Queen at Tyrion’s side, while Tormund discovers a new sign of the WW. What I really don’t want to miss is some good ending for Samwell Tarly.

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    137. Pleasing to see that the majority of reviews are positive, I’ve also noticed increased appreciation on social media from many who initially didn’t like it or were vocal with criticism particularly people who didn’t expect Dany to break bad.

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    138. kevin1989:
      Sean C.,

      Whenever I try to get invited in a home I will not threaten them, especially when it could mean the demise of the people that I’m with. She had the luck Qarth didn’t murder them right there for that threat.

      Most people beg in that moment to get help, and she had luck that Xaro had a plan with her else she would have starved there.

      bullshit about Sansa reclaiming Winterfell. Which civilian did Jon/Sansa and co killed? Right none. They attacked the ones with the swords in their hands. It was Ramsay who killed an unarmed Man not the Starks there.

      Please leave Ramsey out of a comparison as hunting girls with Dogs until they are dead just for fun – and it has to be slow – is Ramseys preferred way to spend his time although it was only shown once in the show. This guy is a disgusting psycho. He does not need any reason to do this.
      I just rememered people having Roose Bolton as an example to switch sides suddenly although Roose Bolton was known to be the best or one of the best leaders of armys but Robb Stark just gave a shit on him and never listened to his council and even didn’t want to hear him out. That is why he was fucked up and initiated the red wedding and went with the lions to replace the long hated arrogant house Stark in the north.
      Well this is over a long time now and we only can wait to see what will go on next in the bombarded instead of melted Kings Landing.

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    139. Che,

      What about the scene that Kit shot with Lena and the Mountain in Dubrovnik, that this site reported on. I think we have to assume it’s a fake set up for misdirection at this point.

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    140. WhiteWalker2.0:
      The worst thing will happen again, Bran will be elected to be King, as thatperfect because he is not interested in anything that happens tu normal humans, so the Kings council finally rules Westeros to its best. This wanders already a long time through the net as a leak, but I coulnd’t believe it. Now I expect it.

      bran was the bookmakers favourite to be king before the S8 premiere, not sure I see it happening at this point though unless Jon dies.

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    141. kevin1989:
      But did I read it right, most critics were very positive about the episode? But people hated it right? It was bad? It was the worst episode of the show right?

      Seems like most though the episode was brilliant.

      Undead Elephant,

      Robert didn’t give the realm peace. His small counsil did. He was a lazy king, which only though about fucking and eating and drinking. He bankrupt his country because of that.

      Thanks too Varys, Pycelle, Renly, LF and Arryn the realm was safe.

      Everyone I know loved it although most of them were expecting Dany to break bad. The common issue I have seen is the hate is coming largely from ardent Dany fans, mostly disgruntled at the way her character turned claiming not enough setup or sexism by the show runners. In fairness most of what I have seen suggests a lot are now onboard with the episodes but equally I did unfollow some of the worst hate offenders.

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    142. Sean C.:
      Young Dragon,

      No, they were paying attention.Daenerys never once indicated she was the sort of person who would deliberately massacre thousands of innocent people.Other than that one master she had killed by dragons, everybody else she executed via dragonfire was provably guilty of actions that would have warranted execution by the likes of Jon Snow.She didn’t crucify innocent people, she crucified slavers responsible for Meereen’s cruel system.

      Nope she murdered nobles indiscriminately like Hizadaar points out his father thought against the slave trade and was murdered all the same.

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    143. fdr:
      Frank,

      I think that it’s possible that the city gets burned even when she only targets the Red Keep (for reasons of fear). Same results for KL, but with Daenerys not completely turned into a mass murderer. But it does seem very much that she intended to teach Westeros a lesson and her mind had been made up in advance. From a historical perspective, many cities often burned when they had a lot of wooden buildings. KL can’t have been all stone, a least flea bottom should have had wooden houses. This would be an argument for Tyrion against using a dragon, trying to prevent fire spreading. The way that Drogon took out all the scorpions with such precision, she could have just destroyed Cersei in S7. Or at least the Greyjoy fleet. Furthermore, if Drogon would have been less controllable, he would also breathe fire even when she doesn’t want to. When in E5 Daenerys sees that Cersei in the Red Keep doesn’t surrender, she can still decide to burn it down. I think the reference to Harrenhall fits. But then as collateral damage (fire spreading, Drogon less controllable) the city burns as well, perhaps even before the Red Keep when fire on the city walls sets nearby houses aflame. But that collateral damage is different from actively targeting KL citizens and her own troups, and, for me, it would be more in agreement with her character, despite the build-up.

      At the moment I don’t see how the story could end bittersweet. KL destroyed by Daenerys is more than bitter, and next week maybe Tyrion, Daenerys or some of the Starks dead… It’s not like Daenerys will find out she has Jon’s baby and they all live happily together after…

      I think the sweet will be Danys death and ridding the world of its final tyrant, then Jon taking the throne.

      I I highly suspect Dany will want to roast Tyrion and Sansa next…

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    144. Jon Snowed: Nope she murdered nobles indiscriminately like Hizadaar points out his father thought against the slave trade and was murdered all the same.

      But this has been a reaction to the noble houses crucifying 1 child per mile. At the point of doing this I would have agreed with it. Although later she learned the lesson in the show, but I still think it was a lie! In the book Hizadaar is evil and the one who tries to kill her with snaks when reopening the arena. Luckily strong Belas – I do miss that dude in the show – eats them all, but survives.
      Anyway I stopped complaining for now and wait what we get on Sunday. I only hope it will not be Bran as King finally as it was clearly said, he is no longer interested in normal humans which actually also doe not fit to what COF said about the 3ER. So garbage all along.

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