Game of Thrones Season 5, Episode 8 “Hardhome”
Writers: David Benioff and D.B. Weiss
Director: Miguel Sapochnik
Runtime: 60 minutes
Content Warnings: TV-MA: Adult Content, Adult Language, Graphic Violence
Synopsis: Arya makes progress in her training. Sansa confronts an old friend. Cersei struggles. Jon travels.
Video Preview: Episode 8 Preview on Youtube
*Note: this post is for all viewers so please use spoiler coding when discussing spoilers.*
Spoiler coding is still required in this Open Chat post prior to the episode’s official airing (9PM EDT tonight for Episode 8). We ask that fans use consideration for your fellow viewers, and cover and label your spoilers appropriately. If you’re discussing leaked information, that is a spoiler and must be covered. Thanks!
Picture from tonight´s episode, look at Jon´s face he is terrified as that thing is piercing trough the wall:
http://s16.postimg.org/l45dflo39/image.jpg
I’m not sure what I’m looking forward to more: Dany-Tyrion in Mereen, or the Battle of Hardhome. Any word on how long tonights episode runs?
Hoyti Von Totiy,
that looks a lot like the spider leak from a few days ago, they must be re-using stuff to save on the visual effects budget
Hell Yeah !!!!
I’ve been ready for months for the (probably) last 20 minutes of this episode !!!!
Anyone hoping to see Hardhome on the intro??
Prediction time: A small portion of the episode will be dedicated to Cersei, much like back in Season 1 when Ned is arrested at the end of episode 7 and only has one scene the following episode when is visited by Varys.
very excited!!!
I am very excite.
Joffrey’s Cunt,
It would be great but since we didn’t get Craster’s or the First of the First Men in it ever, I doubt it.
Greenjones,
I’m with you on that, but yeah it would be great to go further up the wall on the intro for the first time.
Probably the episode I’m looking forward to the most this season, as a book reader.
Greenjones,
Yeah we didn’t even get Volantis in the intro… and “Dorne” instead of “Sunspear” wtf?
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Love it! 😀 Did you send it to get him because of his girly curly hair?
Gonna have to sign off in a moment and can’t join in tonight’s chat, so my passing bit of food for thought is this….(don’t think I’m saying anything spoilery, but covering just in case).
And for my fellow WorriedAboutShireens: Stannis’s big decision isn’t until next week by the looks of it, so hopefully our girl is safe for another 7 days to bring the joy of reading to the world and be generally 76 thousand billion times more of a decent human being than her cowbag of a mother. One sunday at a time….
Woah, FINALLY worked out how to do proper smileys, you just leave out the nose. YUS! I can die a happy woman. It’s not much of an achievement I know but let me delude myself here! 😉
I really hope for a certain scene in Winterfell’s godswood this episode !
(Spoiler alert) Does anyone think Sam, GIlly and little Sam might get a traveling companion next season after FTW?
I know this is probably not what’s on everybody’s mind at the time but I rewatched unbowed unbent unbroken and noticed something . The little girl that arya gives the gift of mercy/death had the same hairdo and costume that Maisie had on the cover of …I’m not sure which magazine . So does any1 else think she’s going to use that girls face and clothes when she goes after u know who
The events at Hardhome have been known to be coming for quite a while, and I am definitely excited about that. A true Wilding settlement visited for the first time. But the Tyrion and Daenerys conversation is something I had no clue about beforehand, so I am extremely excited about that.
What’s the over/under on Birgitte Sørensen’s wildling being important?
Finally I’ve moved and am free of internet connectivity issues and caught up on the show so I can actually watch it as it airs. Just in time for the Hardhome episode I’ve been anticipating for many months. I’m so excited!
I hope there’s some sort of at least hint of positive momentum for Sansa because I’m not liking this storyline so far.
It should be interesting to see Dany and Tyrion together.
More than anything, I can’t wait to finally get a good action scene with multiple White Walkers and hopefully find out what “dead things in the water” is all about. Is it too much to expect that we might learn a little more about the WW tonight? I sure hope so!
*book spoilers*
That way, in the last two episodes you have a lot more time for interactions between Stannis, Theon, Brienne and Sansa, and generally making the conflict up at Winterfell more interesting overall.
Seeing as how there is footage of Stannis’s camp burning in trailers, and the synopsis for episode 10 reads “Stannis marches”, there’s a good chance Ramsay attacks in episode 9. I’d love if this attack of Ramsay’s were triggered by Theon and Sansa escaping at the end of episode 8. Regarding Sansa’s corkscrew she picked up last episode, maybe it’s used to threaten Theon, or (what I want) stab Myranda during the escape. It’s some nice empowerment that stops Sansa being the “Jeyne Poole” of that escape, and it’s also another affront to Ramsay, hopefully triggering a reckless pursuit in episode 9.
What do you guys think? Timings could work out like this:
Arya: 5-10 minutes
Tyrion/Dany/Jorah: 5-10 minutes
Cersei: 5 minutes
Sansa/Theon: 12-18 minutes
Ramsay/Roose: 2-3 minutes
Sam: 3 minutes
Jon: 18-20 minutes
Sansa’s Knight,
Very likely.
Joffrey’s Cunt,
Still, it’s the title of the episode so who knows.
Ravyn,
60 minutes! As it says in the post btw 😉
WeirwoodTreeHugger,
I was thinking about Cersei’s storyline this season and how it really does parallel with Ned’s in season 1. Both storylines are about the downfall of someone in power. And some of the beats in their storylines are rather similar. One example is that their downfall is ultimately the result of attempting to “Protect the king” and bring down a house that they believe will harm them. In fact in both cases it’s the King’s wife who they believe to be treacherous. Also similar beats are played throughout the season for example episode 1 of their storylines begin to kick into gear due to the death of someone close. Both are forced to be separated from most members of their family due to commitments and circumstances. In episode 3 of their respective seasons the both form an alliance with a person of high influence even though in both cases the alliance is risky. The next several episodes in their respective season follows their mission to find evidence to tarnish their rival house. However it ultimately backfires in episode 7 when despite victories in the previous episodes (Cersei getting Loras and Margaery imprisoned, Ned becoming the Lord Regent and Protector of the Realm) they are ultimately betrayed by the individuals of influence who they had placed their faith in. They are then imprisoned themselves.
Rat Kook,
No way Winterfell has that much screen time. I think Jon,Arya, and Cersei will have the most screen time. I don’t expect Cersei or KL to feature in episode 9, so we will likely get her interactions
Tyrion Pimpslap,
There are no Arya clips in the trailers I’ve seen, so I was wondering if they were going to skip her three weeks straight.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I really think they made this episode pretty horrifying. Maybe we will see some extremely deformed human and animal wights, along with more demonic looking White Walkers.
Bradley Ashworth,
So, you think Cersei will die in Winds?
Interesting.
Ravyn,
Maisie and the producers have hyped this episode as the one where things start to really pick up in Arya’s storyline. We haven’t seen any clips yet because they would probably be too spoilery.
I’ve found the show’s handling of the Hardhome sequence a bit curious, in terms of marketing. It doesn’t feel like it’s being hyped like one might expect, given all the effort that went into it. It seems like it’s going to take most viewers by surprise (in the right way, one hopes).
Sean C.,
Agree. If I were a casual viewer and not one obsessed with speculations and fan sites, I would just think it was another “Jon vs. The Wildlings” episode. They seem to be leaving it up to certain media outlets to scream “biggest fight scene in Thrones history”, but I’m not sure that really gets the word out.
I half ass read somewhere the Hardhome sequence had a large VFX undertaking on top of the actual filming logistics.
My body is ready.
My synopsis reads, “Arya makes progress in her training; Sansa meets an old friend; Jon takes to the road; Cersei’s troubles pile up.”
Episode 8 already? It seems like yesterday that I was in denial about Sansa in WF. Maybe I still am.
dragonbringer,
Hodor’s Bastard, It was yesterday! 😛
Yeah, and that’s a good thing ! As Ravyn said above, the casual viewer might expect some Watch vs Wildling action (at least up to the point when Sam gave the dragonglass dagger – but even then, that doesnt prepare them for the full blown on assault we’re about to witness), so they’ll be in for a shock !
Arkash,
I think all book readers want this scene. But maybe it’s more episode 9 territory
Very interesting! May I also add that both Cersei and Ned dismissed Littlefinger as someone who wasn’t a threat and completely underestimated the danger this man poses? Both Ned and Cersei were totally unsuited to the Game of thrones.
I believe that the corkscrew that Sansa took in the last episode will be used and the most likely candidate is Myranda.
wasnt there a girl cast as Winterfell worker who looked like arya
when we will see her its already 8th episode
That’s our Hoyti!
dothrakian raven,
Not sure, but someone mentioned Myranda being in ep 9?? Maybe i’m wrong, regardless would love Sansa to lose her shit finally. Just snap. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if she blinds Myranda with that corkscrew!
I’m so nervous for Sansa and Theon. Nervous about everything tbh, from now on in, it’s going to relentless. Soo ready for Hardhome.
GoT slay me like only you know how.
Hodor’s Bastard,
That’s not Sansa at Winterfell. That’s Jeyne Poole under the influence of Polyjuice Potion.
Shaz,
Yes I know. It was an answer to a previous comment that Sansa will escape in this episode. I think she will stay at WF until the 9th ep and that she will use the corkscrewer to Myranda… It’s just a wild guess
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Humor on this site? Oh no you didn’t.
Yung Wolf,
We have been waiting for you…
Ice spiders. Please, let there be giant ice spiders.
And dead things in the water.
dothrakian raven,
Its a good guess. She has to use that corkscrew on someone. I’d prefer it to be Ramsay but that would be expected.
Oh really? And I thought Jeyne Poole was under a glamour spell from Thoros, but Polyjuice Potion makes much more sense. I thought I saw Hermione in the background during episode 1.
🙂
I would love a scene with theon praying in front of the wierwood tree. “Where was I, Robb was more of a brother than any children of balon, where was I, I should have died with him. Sansa walks in and hears the whole thing and decides to save both of them. I’m not a show runner but this is what I would do with theon’s inner monologue.
Dead things in the water, yes please! Oh also, everything Hardhome, Kingslanding & Braavos. My heart still hurts from losing Aemon.
I suppose once Maester Luwin was killed his potions and ingredients were ripe for the taking… polyjuice!
I am trying not to hold out for someone calling out to Theon. Trying.
You are not alone. I have been listening to the wind in the trees all day! Will we hear anything?
Just for clarity, I’m pretty sure what Sansa picked up was an auger, a carpentry tool for boring holes, and not a corkscrew. But you know, if she’s going to uncork Ramsay’s brain with it, it’s all good.
I think given the preview the most obvious play is for her to threaten Theon with it. But that wouldn’t be a good move. Ramsay would find out and take her only weapon.
I wonder what kind of lock they have on her door.
Nights King Cameo?
Dumb question. I’m re watching The Gift. Why was LF needed to get Lancel to tell the High Septon about Cersei’s crimes? Hasn’t Lancel been with the High Sparrow all season? I would have thought he would have spilled the beans much earlier?
Thanks.
I think that is more like it.
Hodor’s Bastard,
The wait is killing me!
Direct tv, you are getting abused by this rain at exactly the wrong time!!!
Arya! 😀 Show us your skillz!
Dany being an ass to Jorah (again) in 3…2…1….. I wonder if we’ll get a progress report on how that greyscale is going. :/
Definitely looking forward to Hardhome. We’re going to see some fantastic things, aside from Hoyti’s pre-dick-tion. 😉
My body is ready! *rubs nipples*
Bend the knee!
Gaah! It’s not online yet!
Gator,
It is not clear that Lancel spilled all the beans when he joined the FM. In the first episode we saw him approaching Cersei telling her that he forgives her for the past. Don’t forget he is a Lannister and Lannisters have a strict code of family honour. Then we had the scene with the LF where many things were suggested among them the Lannister thing something that made Lancel to slow down his agressive attitude. After that LF met Olenna and promised to her a gift and in the end the gift seemed to be Lancel who possibly confessed everything to H.S…
Is anyone else still not having it show up on HBO Go? WTF?
Anyone out there watching via the HBOGO app on an Amazon FireTV with Comcast/Xfinity? Episode 8 shows up on the main page, but every time I click on it, it takes me to season 1, episode 1. Same thing happened last week, though it did finally start playing around 9:15.
I’m on my laptop furiously refreshing and it still only has last week’s episode on the main page.
I went into the browse episodes for the season and it’s there, so fingers crossed it’ll play the episode. I don’t know why it’s not on the main page.
I’m likin dany a lot more with tyrion
Fuck. It’s gonna be Olly–FTW.
dothrakian raven,
SPOILERS
I dont think that lancel was the gift, for me its going to be olivar stating that he lied and for that they will ser loras free, but not margaery because she lied in front of the gods
Sorry for the bad english
J,
That’s a great idea – Olyvar was Littlefinger’s employee. It makes more sense that Littlefinger could offer him. What could Littlefinger say or do to Lancel to make him talk? Lancel was probably going to confess to the High Sparrow anyway.
Loras could be Margaery’s champion if there is a trial by combat.
Brilliant!
I could not be more relieved that Dolorous Edd made it through this episode alive!
u wot m8?
What did I just watch?
HO LEE F–K!!!!!
Valyrian Steel…. It is good to hold one of those swords….
What an amazing episode.
That was some proper LotR realness.. First time for this, but this was a sick 10/10. Best episode of the series, without question
Hey, Wun Wun was name checked!
Edd lives to kvetch another day!
WTF with the Night’s King. Dead things in the woods, dead things in the water.
Why couldn’t Cat of the Canals be Cat of Canals?
I put in spoiler tags but can’t tell if they’re actually working here. Ugh.
I’m a proud fan tonight.
Poor Val.
Valyrian Steel…who knew?
Wun-Wun was so fucking well done!!
Coolness
That was fucking awesome!
Top 5 GoT episode of all time for sure!
So that happened. That was…..amazing. EP 8 just gave a big fuck you to the season 5 haters.
So that’s where the budget went.
Now THAT’S what a Game of Thrones episode is supposed to be like (although we needed a little Jaime)…
Oh man…..that was worth the month of filming!
Best episode since Blackwater…. Tyrion and Dany was great. The Hardhome battle was awesome.
Thought 1: Why change Cat of the Canals to Lana of the Canals. Absolutely no reason but to annoy book readers.
Thought 2: The whole Hardhome battle, from the dogs barking on, was insanely amazing. Easily puts this episode near the top of my favorite episodes ever, and has me feeling what nonreaders feel for the first time in a long time. I am not sure that I breathed through the whole thing.
Oh my god!! That was fucking intense!! I had to watch it by myself tonight and I can barely write my hands are shaking so bad! Crazy moment when Jon’s valerian sword catches the WW!! Best episode yet!
John was on point today!
All the Kit haters can suck it. This season Kit has been doing amazing!
I thought Edd was toast; they faked me out but good this week.
Unfortunately, my cable provider is having serious technical issues today, so a lot of the first 20 minutes was almost unwatchable. Oh well, not like I’m not going to watch it again.
I haven’t had “tears of awesomeness” for an episode in some time. They’re still rolling. If toth users don’t give this a 9+ there is something wrong with all of them!
Thug life White Walker at the end.
Nymeria the wolf,
It was very exciting. Super job by the production team.
Seriously. Who would be confused by her being Cat of the Canals? Esp when she’s Lanna and yet she references someone named Lharra. Made NO sense, man.
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Lanna_%28Happy_Port%29
Bergey,
HOLY FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Valyrian Steel = WW killer CONFIRMEDDDDDDDDD
ALSO NIGHTS KING FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
RUN WUN WUN RUN!
OMFG what I just saw. I’m still hyperventilating. I can only say that this has been the best tv series scene I’ve seen in my entire life.
That look between NK and Jon… I need to watch it again and again.
Emilia, Lena, Kit!
Did anyone else see two Tormunds?
I loved it, but my unsullied friend that I’m watching it with hates the wights and felt that whole scene was unrealistic. LoL! Dragons are okay, but not white walkers and wights.
Tyrion and Dany was fun, more fun than any Dany scene has been in a while.
I don’t know if anyone else asked this already, but are the Others unable to enter the water?
Well, that’s two seasons in a row they got rid of the name “Cat”….but I don’t care…this episode rocked. Rewatch in 3, 2, 1….
If this episode didn’t quench the thirst of all us fantasy geeks I don’t know what will.
I still have goose bumps!
Jon killing the whitewalker with his sword, would a great payoff moment!
I cried, screamed, clapped, jumped up and down. That was UNBELIEVABLE!!! No sleep tonite!
On a more rational note: I can’t believe IMDB was actually right!
Hoyti Von Totiy,
I almost had a heart attack when John Snow was facing the White Walker capo.
i am speechless …such an awesome episode
tyrion and dany
jon and the nights king ..
i have to process all this for some time to get my thoughts clear
Did you see that look on WW when Jon killed him with Longclaw. 😀 Even Night’s King was impressed,but I think that’s not the last time these two ever meet.
Scary atmosphere.Shame about Karsi,because she was cool.
Admittedly, the wights were a little World War Z!!
brownsnow,
I agree. Creepy as hell!
Shane Snow,
I knew they would meet eventually.
brownsnow,
I agree. Creepy as hell!
Usually episode nine is the big epic episode. Can ep nine be even better?
What an insane episode!! WUN WUN!!!!
Holy Crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20 YEARS!
I can’t believe how long some have been waiting for that bit of info, and delivered in such an awesome way!!!!!!!!!!
Did Jon kill one of the 13!?!?!?!?!?!?
That was so fucking epic.
AND FUCKING WUN WUN!!!!!!!!!!!
Jon V. Nights King is gonna be fucking epic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Finally Game of Thrones has me cheering again. My god. That was amazing.
This.. Perhaps the only nitpick was the writers hating Cat, be it “only Cat”, or Cat of the Canals.. That’s just weird. But with being unsullied for the HH-battle made it so good. Damn, I almost felt pity for Cersei! Of all people! HA! And Braavos remains a great setting, when you realize how they’re working all the angles they have off that one single dock. Sansa now knowing about Bran being alive will lead to a Weirwoodscene.. I’m 65% positive. Also, glimpses of Theon..
And yes, how the heck did this end up this sickening good and the SS-fight look so incredibly bad?
Well,
I think most of us found that GoT high tonight. That feeling of seer excitement and joy only GoT can deliver.
Tonight’s feeling is the reason why we all love this series. That fantasy-geek high that is so intense it makes you shake and gives you goosebumps and keeps you coming back for another hit.
I hope the next 2 episodes can even give me half the feeling I got tonight.
If Dany’s pit scene is anything like the books I think I am going to cry while watching it.
GoT Season 5 is firing on all cylinders now. Started last week and this week it continues. Insta-classic. Tyrion and Dany – win, win. Hardhome – win, win. Valyrian steel – YES! Those ole Valyrians knew a thing or two or ten. Dragons, dragonglass, steel. Very fitting that a Valyrian descendant, Jon, (:D) wielded Valyrian steel and took out a WW.
Every scene was great!
Longclaw, Longclaw, Longclaw! I cheered so hard during the Previously On bit for both Longclaw and the Bran and Rickon revelation!
Poor Jorah, though. I’m glad Tyrion saved his life, but I wish he hadn’t broken his heart in doing so.
Amazing episode.
That was an absolutely fantastic episode! The Hardhome scene is one of my all time favourites the show has ever done. So tense! I was really worried for Ed and Tormund throughout which made watching feel even more intense. I loved Wun Wun too. I actually thought they were going to kill him off so was really pleased to see him head into the water with the boats. Absolutely brilliant stuff. Want to watch it again already!
How badass was Tormund btw? Him and Jon were the episode MVP’s for me.
lol I was so fucking hot for Jon tonight. Congrats, Kit. You’re finally there and it’s amazing. Never doubted you.
And just to show you all…. You can’t please everybody know matter how awesome an episode is…
My buttcheeks are so tight right now I cannot explain the awesoness of that episode! My god!!
Bend the knee people
I can’t believe I survived this episode.
I absolutely loved it, it kept me holding my breath for all the Hardhome scenes!
And Olly is taking Sam’s advice in the wrong way (fuck that kid)…
Also, Wun Wun is here. *goes full Cat at RW on that*
amazing episode. loved every minute of it.
Swordpen,
SPOILERSi need to learn how to use the spoiler codes xD
Maybe, with the inclusión of Pirate(Euron) in season 6, loras left kingslanding to defender highgarden and got deadly wounded there and for that he cant defender his sister righ like in the books, maybe not and he can fight for margaery i dont know.
And maybe olivar says that cersei make him say what he sayd trowing more shit to her case more ir less the role of the kettleback brother, i cant remember his name
JON SNOW KILLED A WHITE WALKER JON SNOW KILLED A WHITE WALKER
FUCK THE BOOKS
Tyrion Pimpslap,
This episode was better than any walking dead episode I ever seen . People say dumb shit
What on Earth is that sick bastard Ramsay (no pun intended) going to do now?!
The rumors of GoT’s death have been greatly exaggerated.
10/10 !! Amazing Hardhome, love the tension between Tyrion and Dany, and while Tyrion taste the good wine again Cercei is sipping water on the floor.oohhh
Hell, I cried from the excitement of this episode and literally still am!!
10/10, Hands down one, if not, the best episode of the series by far.
That. Was. EPIC!
The dialogues were great (highlights to Dany&Tyrion, Arya and Sansa/Theon), and Hardhome was possibly the best action sequence of the series so far.
SO GLAD they deviated from the books!
that hardhome sequence was so great ..it overshadowed an awesome dany and tyrion dynamics
on another note ., lets see Dragon glass ., Dragon steel kills WW and are there still people out there who think that dragons cant kill them
I don’t even know how you can top that…
Why do people think that Jon Stark Snow Stark Targaryan is going to eventually fight The Night’s King?
Jon is either going to make a pact with the Night’s King to fight a Mad Queen (Dany)…. Or it is going to be a 3 way battle between Ice (Others) vs. Fire (Dany) vs. The People (Ice & Fire).
My hope for the next episode is that Ramsay kidnaps shireen, inadvertently saving her from being burned.
BTW, was that benjen stark white walker jon fought? Thought it looked like him.
Can someone spoiler tag that if needed? Not sure how.
So I’m glad the NK looks a 1000x better then when we first saw him….what an upgrade!!! He actually looks like a total badass now and I like their team uni’s. Episode kicked total ass an covered quite a bit for half of it being the long HH scene at the end.
Fucking awesome. End of story.
Arthur,
Shoutout to you bro
Absolutely cannot wait for the next episode. I have been waiting for this episode for FOUR MOTHERF***ING YEARS, and if Danys scene is exactly like the books, i will cry buckets. Literal buckets.
That raising the dead gesture has to be used as a touchdown celebration next season.
OH MY GOD THIS EPISODE WAS SO AMAZING. THE CHILLS WHEN THE KID WIGHTS STARE AT THE WILDING CHIEFTANESS OH MY FUCKING GOD
Holy motherfucking shit that was fantastic. Kit Harrington has totally redeemed himself as an actor after this season, and this episode.
Well, like Fury Road, that lived up to the hype. I’ll have to give it a rewatch after dinner to fully process it. Usually, the Dany-Tyrion scene would be enough to mark it as a keeper, but The Battle of Hardhome was just amazing: exciting,bloody, emotional, scary, surreal, and kind of poetic. I was loving the Night King’s Palpatine-esque look at Jon after he killed the WW: “Let’s turn him to the Dark Side”. Chills.
Incredible episode. On a scale of 1 to 10, that gets a 20. One of the best episodes of the series. Loved it all. Going to watch that one over and over again for the next couple days.
WOW!!! AMAZING!!!!!!!!!
Just before Jon’s staring match with the Night’s King, right in front of him on the boat facing away was a hooded person. I was almost positive the last shot was going to be that person lowering his hood to reveal Benjen.
The Tyrion/Dany conversation was fantastic. PD is just so damn rock solid. I still find Emilia’s acting so average but that was a great scene.
That end had me on the edge. Usually the big battles aren’t something that I get into, though visually they are great, but Hardhome was incredible. Another director that we need more of.
I’ve been critical of the season because the pacing has been really strange. There have been some great moments for sure but up until tonight, it felt like it was all going nowhere fast. I get that a lot of stories have been in transition but I think we get spoiled with huge moments and/or reveals (in seasons past) and a lot of this season had me scratching my head with where the powers that be are going. One huge saving grace has been the Nights Watch/Jon stuff because TPTB make sure it gets attention and flows. I can say the same with the Arya/Cersei stuff because, while it’s been slower paced, it is still building up to a conclusion (or cliffhanger) we have come to expect from this show. The arcs make sense from where the season started.
Some stuff is worth my praise (for what little its worth) like tonight, but for me (yes, a book reader), some just hasn’t panned out (Dorne/Sansa in Winterfell).
Need to give another nod! Though not a huge Sansa in WF fan but loved that it was revealed Bran and Rickon live!
Fuck yeah
BEST EPISODE OF ALL TIME!
Samwell I Am,
Believe it or not, episode 9 will be 10x better than this one. I SHIT YOU NOT. EPISODE 9 WILL MAKE YOU PISS YOUR PANTS. EPISODE 10 WILL MAKE YOU SCREAM MORE THAN THE RED WEDDING. this season has been a slow burnup, but these LAST 3 EPISODES WILL COMPLETELY MAKE IT UP, AND POSSIBLY GIVE GAME OF THRONES ITS BEST SEASON YET. JEEEEEEEEESUS CHRIST. NEVER BEEN MORE EXICTED FOR ANYTHING ELSE IN MY LIFE.
After tonight’s episode, I’ve come to the belief that Jon will never be king of all of Westeros, mainly because I don’t think that’s his true calling. Even if he really is half-Targ, the “ice” fight is much more vital, and I think all these years of struggle among the Northerners and wildlings will really sour him to the petty drama of the fight for the Iron Throne.
WOW!!!! Holy crap!!!! That was outstanding, one of the best of the whole series! The wright kids were heartbreaking and terrifying at the sametime.
I thought the same thing!!!!
This episode was probably one of the best in the series. I’m so glad D&D really established the threat of the White Walkers, they screw up a lot but they nailed this episode. Glad we saw Wun Wun 🙂 they kind of spoiled that Valyrian steel is dragonglass and can kill the White Walkers but I think us book readers already assumed that. Only thing J had a problem with was that they changed Cat of the Canals name :/ other than that it was a FANTASTIC episode!!!
Hardhome was incredible…every second of it. Kit was fantastic. Edd made it out. And, of course, Longclaw kills WW. Those last few minutes were tense. I’m not sure that I took a breath.
Lena was perfect: haughty, demanding and desperate.
Not sure what Ramsay is planning.
The Night’s King was exceedingly interested in Jon Snow. I wonder if he suspects Jon is Azor Ahai reborn.
BEST. EPISODE. EVER.
Jesus that was amazing. Fucking hell.
Btw, in the inside the ep on HBO, Benioff confirmed the WW is in fact …. THE NIGHT’S KING!
Did Tormund kill The Lord Of Bones? lol
Where was the promo for next episode
did anyone else saw the promo
Especially when they threw themselves off the cliff, right? I was wondering where that deja vu was coming from.
Laura,
I love the LOTR comparison. That is what I thought while watching it. First big scale battle w non humans.
Ginevra,
BTW, its official, Benioff call Richard Brake’s character the Night’s King several times on the Inside the Episode video.
Not that there were ever any actual doubters, but still awesome to have it confirmed.
Fucking EPIC book spoilers this episode!
Someone needs to make a gif of the night king raising his arms at Jon with the caption “do you even lift bro?”
Hi-Fi,
Kit Harrington has been fucking amazing this season. Seriously, IDK maybe its the great material he has got to work with but up until this season I never was crazy about Jon/Wall/Nightswatch stuff and this season I crave for it.
I really hope all the folks that were always complaining about his acting cut him a break and give him some credit this season, he has been spot on.
Kill the boy, for Kit, really has happened.
Ser Matt the Sullen,
Right about Benjen? Was he there? I wondered if mayb he was the WW but that doesn’t make sense
Clob,
I was shaking and goose bumpy, the quality and scale and everything just was so good. I was watching my imagination come to life and was just in awe…
I bend the knee to Jon Snow!
I’m having problems commenting. Testing
Ellen,
Agreed. I had to keep reminding myself he doesn’t die here!
Awesome the “catchable fatal error” is gone so now it looks like I can comment again.
Nights Kings was awesome! Cant wait to rewatch
I saw so many complaints about how boring Arya’s storyline is lol. Just give more time to Jon, please.
My god…
What an episode.
After getting basically a peak into WoW and what the Others/White Walkers are like, it’s clear that absolutely nobody is taking the threat they pose seriously enough. They are a controlled zombie apocalypse.
Everything else seems pedestrian in comparison to the wall storyline now.
Whatever it is. I’m assuming it’s the same thing they were using on Theon’s foot, when they were torturing him in season 3.
With all the crazy hardhome antics I forgot to mention how great the scene with Qyburn was! Kevan returning confirmed!
Holy fucking shitballs.
Best episode of the season or what? Yes. No what.
Hardhome is so evidently awesome I won’t even speak of it. Let’s just say: Wun Wun! Valyrian steel killing White Walkers confirmed! HOLY FUCKING SHIT WHAT A SETPIECE!
In a way, it’s a pity people will only be speaking about Hardhome when we had that AMAZING conversation between Tyrion and Dany. Amazing!
It is strange! Somebody said that the actress who played Karsi would be in the final episode. If this is true then I wonder in what context? Maybe she becomes one of the 13 if they show the WW council again for some reason. But most possibly that was false info…
When Sam said:Jon always comes back or something like that.Nice foreshadowing.
Demonmonkey,
Benjen was listed for episode 10, not 8. The Nights King and White Walkers were however but many including myself were skeptical to trust IMDB… I’ve never been so happy to be proven so wrong!
I can’t believe I am saying this, but can’t wait for the next Meereen scene!
Really a great episode, totally didn’t expect that. LongClaw can kill White Walkers, how awesome was that. That battle was great. I am not a fan of zombie stuff in general, but within GoT this really worked. It felt epic, your rooting for characters to survive, you never know in this show. I think they traumatized my wife again, this show has done that a few times over the years. The dead army kids were toughest part, and that new wildling girl coming back to life. This series is never short of giving you chills. Dany and Tyrion was also great. You can do whole episode of those two talking. GoT once again finishing the season strong.
super episode ~ the walkers finally got scary – really, really scary and they did some major damage. Loved it. The Night’s King at the end -Jon’s look of futility. Kit’s fight scenes were powerful, facial expressions and voice perfect. Peter Dinklage should win a GG and Emmy again and Lena should one too. Loving poor Jorah. And Jaqen’s bedroom voice as he coaches Arya in the art of how things go down in the HoB&W. Can’t get much better than this!
So much for Val, huh?
I am more than amazed. I am humbled. Nothing in my wildest imagination could have conjured what we all had the pleasure of seeing tonight.
There was no wasted or uneven moment in the entire episode. Tyrion and Dany sparring was as riveting as Hardhome, which was as exciting as anything I’ve ever seen in ALL my years of film viewing. Was this really TV?
It’s almost as if everything we’ve seen before on the show was but a prelude and set-up for this pinnacle achievement.
Get a grip, you say? I don’t want to get a grip. I want to bask in this afterglow for as long as I can.
Anyone on any site or blog, as well as anyone at the water cooler at work tomorrow, who derides this episode as anything less than a gift to us all–sullied and unsullied alike–will forever lose credibility and respect in my eyes.
Nineteen years, GRRM, nineteen years, of growing naysayers and doubters, and your custodians D&D managed to maintain grace under fire (especially of late) to keep hope alive that they will actually be able to lead us to the Promised Land.
Like I said. I am humbled. The GoT team is smarter than I’ll ever be. Maybe I’ll sober up by tomorrow and regret the over-the-top thing I just wrote, but I doubt it.
So, um, DAMN.
I guess in a way this is a confirmation that Valyrian Steel definitely = dragonglass. So that’s something, then. Also, of course, Kit Harington kills it in the fight scenes, as does Kristofer Hivju.
And the end was a great way to get some release after a number of terrific tension-packed moments with Cersei in the cell, a welcome appearance from Qyburn, and two great conversations between Tyrion and Dany that stand as the kind of thing we’ve all been hoping to see for a long time.
Also great to really start to see the first real manifestation of the Army of the Dead, and that was a solid, well-done battle, with the right amount of chaos, too. I really liked Birgitte Sorenson and sorry to see she’s gone so soon! That was an interesting character, and wanted more of her – this year has had a few of those.
Another winner.
Luka Nieto,
Pretty much every stop tonight was excellent. Even Sansa finally finding out about Bran and Rickon. I’ll have to go back later to re-watch the Arya stuff. Some of the dialogue sailed past me so I wasn’t entirely clear what was going on. But yeah….Twitter is all Game of Thrones right now.
Perfect
that look from jon and WW when ice and longclaw collided
Hodor’s Bastard,
Yeah, I like the younger wights more than the older skeleton wights. Only disappointment was the lack of giant spiders.
I just want to say its great to see the open chat has already almost 200 entries, when the former website of many of this sites writers has 30. Good to see that a fan centric site can still hold its own. Congrats to those that run watchersonthewall.com Really a great place to enjoy GoT. Thanks
Amazing episode from start to finish. Easily the best in the season, even one of the best of the whole series. Well done to all involved! I was on the edge of my seat during the entire Hardhome slot, from the talking to the fighting.
What about “How You Like Me Now” ?
Zooming to the top echelon of GoT directors: Miguel Sapochnik!!
I too thought the hooded figure on the boat was something… Undead Benjen with warm fingers and all… And then nothing?
Was unsure who that top guy at the end was. Night’s King is it? Who was it that Jon killed? Some Walker general or something?
Thought Tyrion/Daenerys was too easy.
Was kinda surprised at the fierce fighting freefolk runnin for the water wholesale and closing the gates on their kinfolk. All that did was turn the freefolk on the wrong side into Walkers.
Loved Cersei and Arya stuff. Ramsay is a sick twisted cruel sadist but it seems he’s no coward at least.
Sansa will shine.
Great episode.
the “whole break the wheel speech” i wonder what people is going to say about it after all she did add the Targaryens
Hodor’s Bastard,
That’s so true, ser. Mr. Sapochnik directed probably the best back-to-back episodes in the show since And Now His Watch Is Ended/Kissed By Fire in Season 3.
Excellent episode! I haven’t read through all the comments yet, so sorry if this was already mentioned…but anyways, in the scene when the little creepy kid wights show up, I could swear that the little girl standing behind skeletor wight was the girl from the opening sequence of the very first episode in season 1 – did anyone else catch this, or am I seeing things?
Greatjon of Slumber,
I think you meant Valyrian Steel= Dragon Steel
Great episode. D&D have been slowly moving all those little pieces into place earlier in the season, and now we get the big payoffs in the last three episodes.
And lots of applause for new director Miguel Sapochnik – last week was his first GOT episode, and then he gives us this week’s blockbuster. (Hope they keep him around for next season!!)
Tyrion Pimpslap,
if only we got the ice spiders i would have been jumping with joy ..
i was hoping they will make an appearence since the wildling mentioned them
I’m glad that I was wrong about Edd.
So if Valerian steel can kill WW, does that mean Brienne will eventually come across one? She’s the only other person with a Valerian sword, right?
lady_viper1984,
I thought exactly the same…
Masterful. Incredible. An hour later, I’m still trying to catch my breath … just in time to lose it again when the episode re-runs at 11:30. That episode was everything I had hoped for and more.
Obviously, time and distance will allow me to provide a more nuanced and levelheaded assessment. But I have every expectation that when the dust settles, Hardhome will comfortably rank not only as my favorite episode of Season 5, but as one of my favorite episodes of this entire amazing series. Every scene delivered, above and beyond my expectations. And my expectations were high.
Tyrion and Daenerys had their first real (fascinating) conversation. Arya wandered the streets and canals of Braavos. Cersei was magnificently defiant in captivity (though the cracks are starting to show). Sansa got through to Theon, and he told her that Bran and Rickon are alive! Birgitte Hjort Sørensen’s Karsi was a certified badass (honestly, she has to rank as one of the best one-episode characters ever). There was a giant swinging flaming logs! Jon Snow killed a white walker … with Valyrian Steel! And The Night’s King has announced his presence in a most definitive and terrifying fashion!
Twenty minutes until I can watch it again. I can’t wait!
Ravyn,
She and king Tommen if he got the one Joffrey had…
They’re saving the spiders for the final attack.
No one is gonna even mention the amazing photography this episode had? god, the shots where amazing.
Greatjon of Slumber,
“Come at me, bro!”
Ravyn,
In the show so far, yes. In the books, no.
Ok good! I’m not alone 🙂 I thought that throwing her in was a nice nod to the first season. I’m re-watching now to be sure.
dothrakian raven,
Pasti,
When Kit stumbles out of that hut with the WW lieutenant behind him…Great shot. Poetic, even.
Well, that was the shit.
“I am Obara Sand, daughter of Oberyn Martell, I fight for Dorne whom do you fight for” and “Wun, Wun to the seeeea!” are my two favourite one-liners so far…
http://photos.vanityfair.com/2015/06/01/556bc21c378caf0d670e4d8c_come-at-me-crow-nights-king.gif
WOW! What an episode! Best episode of the season, no question. So tense and the action was glorious. Not to mention the cinematography/photography was beautiful to behold as was the sound editing/effects. I can’t wait to see how it all pays off in the final 2 episodes!
lady_viper1984,
I also saw that, so exciting!
JTargs,
And that is the best costume for a man in the show!!! I want it!!!
Cersei sucking up the water from the dungeon floor…Simply perfect. I think we need one thread for the first half of the episode and one for Hardhome: so many great scenes overshadowed by one of the show’s best sequences.
AA,
We need a brand new website for this episode…
The other half of Ice was given to Joffrey, but I’m not sure where it is now. Here is a list of all known Valyrian steel. I hope that most will make it to the war at the Wall, especially Brienne and Oathkeeper.
KG,
Wasn’t Ice melted down into two swords at the beginning of season 4? Jamie got one sword and Joffrey got the other, if I remember correctly. Jamie then gave his blade to Brianne. I don’t recall who ended up with Jeffrey’s Valeryin steel sword?
That was incredible. Edd didn’t die! They did a great job making you feel for the loss of Karsi. She had only just been introduced, but it felt like a loss. Great performance from Birgitte, but pity she couldn’t have stated longer, because she was great.
Other scenes were fine too, with Arya in particular being a bit better than previous weeks.
http://i.imgur.com/OLmhVZJ.jpg
Night’s King was badass.
LOVED the episode! The last 20 minutes were just brutally insane. The tension when the winds are coming are terrifying. What fills me with fear is the promo, with
SPOILER BELOW – TAGS WON’T WORK.
Stannis talking about destiny. Please don’t burn Shireen, please!
FANTASTIC episode! Definitely one of the best in the series. Stuff between Dany and Tyrion was great, and of course everything at Hardhome.
I had to jump at the chance to make a quick video of the song that popped in my head when I saw the ending with the NK : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd1vPFPJdTU
My favorite pic so far. I died 😀
https://mobile.twitter.com/BeautyBrienne/status/605196144986214400/photo/1
Ginevra,
That was the single most devastating episode of this series yet. The last 20 minutes of Hardhome was powerful punch to the stomach: over and over and over. And just when you thought the punches had stopped: the White Walker (? the Night King?) raises his hands and lands one to the skull.
Side note: 15 years of fan conjecture proven on one mighty swing of Longclaw! Seriously, I loved that fight: the look of shock on the White Walker’s face when Jon’s sword didn’t shatter (whoops, they probably had forgotten about Valyrian Steel!) was priceless.
Other high points: the Daeny & Tyrion stuff. Again, we’ve waited 15 years for this: it was low-key, but highly intense, and Game of Thrones both literally and figuratively.
I’ve plunged my hands into radioactive material to grow another thumb or two to put up.
Daaaaaayyyuuummmm!
It took forever to watch because the site kept crashing, but that couldn’t ruin it for me. So good!
I suspected Valyrian steel was a big thing because it kills WW. Good to finally know for sure.
Yes, the wight attack was a little WWZ movie-ish. But once the Walkers made the scene, it didn’t matter anymore. That was what I was waiting for. I could tell the Night’s King sensed some sort of inherent power in Jon. It was so good to get books spoilers about the Others. Yay!
I’m loving that the show sped up the meeting of Dany and Tyrion,
It was chilling to see Arya’s happiness at getting assigned a kill.
Speaking of chilling, Qyburn as Cersei’s savior is happening. Yikes!
Is it a book spoiler that Sansa finds out her brothers are alive, or a show invention? Hmm…
Was there a hint that Ramsay’s lack of control and patience will be his undoing? Let’s hope.
If anyone had any doubt that
I can’t wait to find out more about how the grey scale Jorah thing will play out. They sure made it a point to remind us.
So far this season hasn’t thrilled me as much as the previous ones. But that changed tonight. I pretty much pooped, peed, had an orgasm and a seizure at that episode.
Arthur,
I agree with you… 🙂
Hoooooooolyyyyy shit!!!! I’m speechless! Where to begin?!
Fantastic episode! Going to re-watch it right now!
Winter Is Coming…fuck yeah!
lady_viper1984,
It probably could not have been the same girl after 4+ years, but I think that they tried to make it look like her.
The slaughter of the Wildlings was the single most heart-rending thing they’ve done on Thrones. That was utterly brutal to behold. That scene with “faux Val” was very well-done: the woman who had just seen her children off to safety being undone by children that were not saved.
AA,
I was very excited to see House Tarly with a sword, but Randyll is such a hard man. I don’t see him giving much up, especially for Sam, but perhaps he’ll have a massive change of heart.
Great episode. On par with “The Red Wedding” and “The Viper vs. The Mountain”. Was glad to hear Qyburn mention his “work”… Cannot wait to see The Mountain’s role moving forward!
Did you ask him how can a scene both feature undead AND be realistic?
I think that the improved high-speed wights are a hell of a lot scarier than the lumbering ones. These feel more like vampires and less like zombies. Oh, and it’s just as realistic!
Wimsey,
Benioff in the after show comments said “Night’s King” in reference to the head WW.
Can’t add much that hasn’t already been said regarding how great this episode was. Not bad for “the most boring season” of a show that’s already “past its peak” and “losing its way.” 😉
It’s amazing to think of how many years (decades?) of speculation regarding Valyrian steel just became obsolete tonight.
They tricked me. Just when I thought that maybe that Wildling was going to become a regular and be Val-esque, they kill her off. It was necessary to finally see a familiar become a wight though.
Ravyn,
Cool. Completely irrelevant in many ways, but, still: cool. Geez, I wish GRRM had gotten this stuff into the last book…..
True. However, this also is not be like revealing Jon’s mother or something like that where fans drew strong lines in the sand. Most people seemed to think that this was a very plausible idea: there were no “Ashara Dayne” alternatives here.
I… I… I…
Fuck.
Amazing.
INCREDIBLY IMPRESSIVE!! EPIC EPISODE!!!
Tyrion & Daenerys scene… WOW!
The last 20 minutes of Hardhome(OMG!!!!) No words!!! Congrats Mr.Harington, amazing performance (fight scenes, the best…)!!
I LOVE GAME OF THRONES!!! 🙂
That was a “This is not over” pair of stares if ever I’ve seen them. And I’ve seen a few. Given a few, too. (And…. it’s still.. NOT. OVER.)
You’re right about that – it was never really controversial, but still great to see it confirmed. I think someone on this board (don’t remember who) even commented a couple of days ago about hoping to see whether Valyrian steel would work like dragonglass. Whoever that was, great call!
Demonmonkey,
Hey! So i heard that benjen starks actor was set for this episode, and no one saw him right? Well- If thats true, then my theory is that Benjen was the Wight who Jon fought and shattered with his valarian steel sword. That Walker Had the same hair line, and facial hair (goatee) as benjen stark had…. I believe it may have been him…
Thoughts?
Simeon,
I think more then one person brought it up: and the “gee, will we finally find out?” was brought up half in jest by at least one person. (Not me: I thought it, but never typed it, and I’m sure many others here did the same.) Curiously, Chekhov’s Dragon Glass misfired here!
On a side note, the “happy” note of this episode was the giant getting away. They should have called him Wun-Wun! (Maybe they did and I missed it.)
On another side note, shee-ite, but Sansa’s backbone now might undue a White Walker.
marvan ebrahimzadeh,
That was a White Walker (= Other), not a Wight.
No kidding! Sam’s line about having to do whatyou think is right even if others are against it (or whatever – didn’t memorize it) followed by Olly’s look was a giant flashing neon sign.
I ask once more: If I remember well soembody mentioned that Karsi’s character, the wildling chiefteness will reappear in ep10. If this is true it is rather strange because the only context she can reappear is as one of the 13 heads of WW or something similar. Unless the info was a fraud…
Waaaaaw ! That was orgasmic as hell !!!!
i am starting to believe that stannis will be recruited by the nights king since stannis would have lost the things he loved
dothrakian raven,
Yeah, that will be false info. Someone guessing (hey there was a chance!)
Ginevra,
Jeb,
Do you know for sure?
Wimsey,
They did call him Wun-Wun, but you had to be listening closely.
Holy grandmother of balls on fire!
The ending was …..
Scary, epic and amazing altogether!!!
Walkers came!!!
dothrakian raven,
No, but it’s a fair guess. That arc is closed now that she is a Wight.
Gosh the Night’s King is so incredibly beautiful!
Is the giant going south on the ships? Like, to the Wall? Please say Yes! There was such a nice connection between him and Edd. Which, yes, yes, Edd LIVES! Awesome!
Many are trying to quietly ignore that she said “Targaryen”, I’m sure, since hmm.. that doesn’t align with their die-hard belief systems. 😉 Actually, that sentence tells us a bit about what she’s planning to do in Westeros, and it’s not what the vast majority of internet forums talk about.
That end sequence was the stuff of enormous tragedy, wasn’t it, as Jon sails away? The death of life at the hands of an indifferent and powerful force of nature, the lack of warmth, the lack of the balance required to maintain life
Heartbreaking indeed! I liked Faux Val and was hoping that she would make it safely to a boat. The look on her face when the kid wights appeared…so sad.
So glad that we got to see Hardhome even though we witnessed a complete massacre. This was a great decision by D&D and will be considered one of the series best episodes.
I have never shivered this much.. I felt so cold. Those undead children…. This was way better than any horror movie I’ve seen. HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!! Best episode ever best TV show ever….
Re watching. Pretty sure I saw the little girl from the first episode of first season? Or maybe they all look so much alike.
So if Jons sword shattered that lieutenant Wight, how come it didnt shatter all the other Wight-Pawns who he killed before??????? Or will it start shattering them now?
Laura,
I didn’t miss any of those! I thought everything Kristofer Hivju was excellent. Tormund’s little speech when he’s characterizing Jon Snow as “prettier than both his daughters but he can fight, young but he can lead” was pretty awesome too. And the lady repeating his “I fucking hate Thenns!” made me think of her as Tormund’s Woman 😛 I hate she got zombified. And the look of true helplessness and horror on her face, at seeing the little kids as wights after the scene she put her own kids in the boat was so sad. She didn’t even fight them. She simply held her weapons in her crossed arms and waited for them.
dragonbringer,
However, in that speech Daenerys did not add Martells. And neither did Tyrion previously, when he asked who’ll back her up in Westeros, which powerful House. Which sets up nicely the Dany/Martell alliance I think.
dothrakian raven,
She could become some type of WW ambassador, or infiltrate the Wall, perhaps she was on the verge of death when the NK used his dark power and now she becomes the show’s version of CH. Just saying there are a number of reasons she could still appear as a character. Still waiting on the badass beautiful and seductive Night Queen to make an appearance, after all she’s the main reason everyone is in this predicament.
I’m too speechless to give my opinion on the episode, I give it a 9.9, the Gilly/Sam scene felt to redundant, we didn’t need her tending him again and talking about something they talked about last week. A more logically and tense scene would be Ser Aliser and Sam confronting each other about the incident, then Ollie walks in. A bad choice by the writers, the only bad choice this week, otherwise it would be a “10”.
Wimsey,
im confused….
wimsey, does that also explain why Jons sword shattered that one guy and not the rest of the dead army?
I’m actually glad there was no Benjen to see. That would have made it too cliched. I find the story more believable just knowing he’s gone missing and assumed dead somewhere.
Even though Blackwater and Watchers on the Wall were giant episodes, I think Hardhome has the BIGGEST shots ever in the show. It was amazing, it reminded me of Lord Of The Rings (not the Hobbit). That shot of the giant going in the water with the ships in the background EEEEEPIC. I thought Hardhome was going to be like 20 guys against 20 guys stuff.
I think jorah will take Quentyns role. Definitely excited for the next two episodes and the wait for season 6 will be brutal without wow
You did miss it, because he *was* called Wun Wun!
marvan ebrahimzadeh,
What Jon shattered with Longclaw was a White Walker, not a wight. .
tyjon,
Ok. Thank you. IF she reappears in some WW form then I think the scene with her children could take an interesting twist if she would want to regain them. It also means that we will probably see again the Night’s King.
marvan ebrahimzadeh,
That was a Lt. Other. Which is why he shattered.
I do understand the confusion though. I myself doubted that the Gen. Other was the Night’s King. I mean if he’s the same guy from last season, then his make up is wrong (pretty grey vs the whiteness of S4) and not enough moisturizer. If he’s a different Ohter, than what was that one? a High Septon? Because transforming that live baby into an Other has to be a way more powerful magic in my mind than just raising up the dead.
EDIT: Sorry! Looks like some others above already explained it. Didn’t mean to pile up. Comments just crossed in posting I suppose 😀
Ravyn,
Tommen should have inherited Joffreys sword. And surely there a handful more. Of course, who needs dragon glass and steel when u have dragons? I was thinking of that when Tyrion asked Dany who / why should they support u? Mayb they will beg her to come save them. Would b nice.
marvan ebrahimzadeh,
My guess on why the type of WW that shatters are because they are like ice sculptures brought to life via dark magic, the Night’s King type of Other is more flesh and bone, notice the differences in their appearance, he and Other’s like him create the Ice/Snow WW and undead Wight’s.
That was a White Walker/Other. Not a wight. A wight is merely a corpse the Walkers control. It’s established in the books and I guess now the show too that wights are not effected by dragonglass or Valyrian steel. Wights are killed with fire in the books. In the show it seems that you can chop them up too.
Demonmonkey,
It wasn’t a little girl, though – wasn’t that actress like 18 or something?
Only white walkers/others shatter. Wights/undead people need to be hacked apart. And dragon glass shatters white walkers but would shatter against wights bc it’s just glass. Dragon steel/valyrian steel is the best weapon to have
Long time lurker, First time commenter.
When Jon and the Then went to the fire for dragonglass, I thought that was coldhands, to save the day…. Wrong. Did anyone else think that?
Wow, the leak from months ago about White Walkers sending wights off a cliff was spot on. I believe the staredown between Jon and the Night’s King was leaked as well.
Anyway, all signs point to the next episode being just as epic as this one.
Yellow Snow,
yeah well i thought that was benjen because of his hair line and his beard/goatee is very similar.
But thank you everybody for clearing it up.
White Walkers or Others are The real Deal Dark Magic Evil OG’s. They shatter when stabbed by Valaryian Steel and Dragon Glass.
Wights are just human-Undead who they control. They do not shatter.
right? thanks!
Tormund’s Woman,
Okay. I’m confused. Tyrion definitely mentioned the Tyrells. And I didnt hear Dany say Targareon?
But I am very interested now about what she means by break the wheel? Is she going to make larger changes to the political structure of Westeros?
Last night I had a dream that they picked up Sansa and ran off to join a hippie commune.
WeirwoodTreeHugger,
You can chop them up in the books, too: it is just hard. A certain pack of wolves does it. (Of course, eating the Wights might have been the coup de grace.)
Magiese,
I dreamed she joined the UK women’s basketball team. How tall is that lady?
You are right! IIRC, the leak said that the NK and Jon have a stare-down as Jon rows away. Exactly what happened! Who was the person who leaked that?
Lucius,
After rewatch I am certain that Jon Snow is actually Aragon reborn. Insane and I’m in love. It also made me think about when he said that Robb was better than him at everything. We never saw Robb fight. Such a shame. If it’s better than Jon, well…bring me some smelling salts I’m feeling faint!
And yes I realize it’s weird that my love for his character is forged on his amazing fighting prowess.
marvan ebrahimzadeh,
There is no readon to think that the White Walkers involve “Dark Magic.” Oh, sure, they do not care much about humans and treat them like dattle for slaughter: but are we “evil” for treating cows like cattle for slaughter?
Josh,
I think Jorah is forging his own path. He isn’t really taking anyone’s role. And despite the greyscale and the implications that may have for Westeros, it doesn’t seem like he will make it thru this season.
Yesssssss!!!!
Kay,
Yeah, that really got to me. The show has done a great job of showing the Wildlings as people: not good, not bad, just too proud for their own (or anyone else’s) benefit. Watching them slaughtered en masse like that combined watching Titanic with watching the Helms Deep segment of Two Towers. (And, frankly, it was Oscar nomination calibre stuff, too.)
Really, it was just heartbreaking. At least Wun Wun made it!
Demonmonkey,
I don’t know what she meant. At first sight it just looks like she’s telling Tyrion that she’s planning to destroy all those Houses! LOL
Here is what I was meant though: Tyrion goes through almost all the powerful Houses of Westeros when he’s asking her who’ll back her up. He mentions that even if she gets the Tyrells to back her that is not enough. Dany too mentions almost all the Houses of Westeros saying she’ll break the wheel.
I was just pointing out that the Martells are not mentioned in those Houses, which leaves a door open there for a Dany ally. Arryn would be the other one but I doubt Tyrion would think of that one considering Littlefinger is the Lord Protector of the Vale.
Wimsey,
I thought season 4 veered a bit too far into ‘wildlings are savages’ territory, but it was partially redeemed in episodes 9 an 10.
And yes! The ending was very emotional, and it really snuck up on me! The shot of all the dead bodies with Tormund and Jon looking on in grief/horror was superb.
Wildling Chieftaness: “I’ll be right behind you…”
Me: “Fuck!!!!”
Ghost!
AMAZING episode. Top 5 material for me. Literally every scene knocked it out of the park.
Thoughts on next weeks episode:
– Will Arya end up killing the thin man, or will she be distracted by sighting of a certain someone? I really want to see Arya knock some names off her list and get back to Westeros. Seeing her carrying out the hits for the Faceless Death Cult isn’t really all that interesting to me, tbh.
– How will Stannis camp play out? Will Ramsay attack next episode? Will Stannis burn Shireen? And will Sansa be able to get ANY revenge? (Maybe against Roose? Doubtful.) And still very much struggling to see how Brienne will fit in. But it is great fun not knowing what’s coming!
Tormund’s Woman,
She mentioned the big Houses that are involved in the war of the 5 kings. Dorne is not one of them. When she says I want to break the wheel she does not imply some plan she has in mind. What she means is that she will try to destruct the current structure of how politics work in Westeros. And it remains to be seen what she intends to do. By breaking the wheel it means breaking the Iron Throne which is the symbol of all the mess happening at Westeros.
King Crow – they called Jon “King.” I hope that’s foreshadowing
Thronetender,
A forshadowing of what? That he will be Lord Commander? It’s done already…
Holy S!?T! What a spectacular episode. Tyrion advising Dany was pure joy to watch and may finally get her out of Meereen, and Cersei licking filthy water off of the floor — priceless and so satisfying to watch. However, the most amazing scenes were from Hardhome. Jon Snow brought it tonight. When Longclaw killed the WW, the first thought that when through my head was Lightbringer., and if Longclaw is Lightbringer, then Jon has got to be Azor Ahai. I think the Night’s King’s stare-down of Jon foreshadows an epic battle hetween the two. Can’t wait for next week.
RAVEN – King, that Jon will be KING. No? Not possible? I certainly liked hearing it.
This is the first time I almost felt sorry for Cersei.
The “right kind of terrible.” The chemistry between the two minds of Tyrion and Dany was electric – not in a sexual way, but in the excitement of one intelligent mind seeking power encountering an intelligent mind in power looking for advice. “I want you to advise me, while you can still speak in complete sentences.” removes wine glass. This is a relationship to look forward to. Tyrion you are still the gift.
Geralt of Rivia,
Didn’t Jon and Melissandre have a “moment”? Now Jon and the WW King have also had a ” moment”. Let’s pray that the WW won’t want to make a shadow baby………I would venture to guess that since Jon is catching the eye of all the troublemakers he’s most likely the hero. Yay! Fingers crossed he makes it to the end.
Ravyn,
Wasn’t that dagger from Bran’s attempted assassination in season one Valarian Steel? Whatever happened to that?
Brendon,
Hmmm…Brienne has Valyrian steel, which changes the game a bit now.
otterbox,
Arya’s stuff (sans not being called Cat) was just fine thanks
Tormund’s Woman,
Benioff in the after show comments called the General Other The Night’s King.
Magiese,
I don’t know. I’d have to go back and look at the episode. Or maybe someone else can answer. Last I heard, it was at the Vale?
Stannis does not have “lightbringer”, When he gets it from the red woman in seas 1
or 2, he’s like fuck this it’s hot! (believing the red woman).
If you watch closely, Jons sword starts burning at the rims. Blue like a lightsaber. He’s like WTF.
Just got done watching the episode again… and something tells me I will do it again, and again for the rest of the week ahead…
What a great episode in what has been another spectacular season. It is moments like these why I do not bother over analyzing each episode, each trailer, each scrap of information, leaked or otherwise. THAT stands in the way of just enjoying the show.
As I’ve said before, for me each episode is a piece of the bigger puzzle that is “Game Of Thrones”, it a piece of a whole. And instead of complaining and wasting my time being bitter about this detail and this aspect, I just get the sheer joy to savour and enjoy something like what I have seen tonight!
The fact that the troika of my favourite characters, Jon, Danny and Tyrion got to shine soo beautifully in tonight’s marvellous episode, was a joy to behold, as a fan of “A Song Of Ice And Fire” and “Game Of Thrones”, novels and TV series!
Fun scene of the episode, and yes there was one…Wun-Wun telling Ed, “The fuck you looking at?”… You haven’t lived until you actually get insulted by someone and there is literally nothing you can do in return but stand there and take it…LOL! And poor Ed, dolorous indeed, stood there like a champ and took it… but both of them survived and that made me giddy with joy, especially seeing Wun-Wun dispatch the Wights with such gusto! Reminded me, in a good way, of the Ents stepping on the Uruk-kai and Orcs when they attack Saruman and Orthanc…
The entire cast and crew working on this episode, as well as D&D and Miguel Sapochnik, definitely deserve soo much praise and thanks. Take a bow ladies and gents, you do us proud week-in week-out, but tonight you went above and beyond!
Another great addition and win for television. Because looking at this episode tonight, and looking at the middling and underwhelming movies that I’ve had the misfortune to see so far this year… it’s no wonder TV is where its at now!
For all Canadian fans, HBOCanada will play Episode 9 and 10 at various theatres. Tickets are free and on a first come, first serve basis.
http://cineplex.com/Movie/game-of-thrones-season-5-finale-fan-event
NICE.
We would also accept “Are you not entertained?”
Best Episode Ever
+1
Nothing more to add to this, Hardhome is the best battle scene of all five seasons so far for sure
Not in the books so while some would argue it is a good “deviation” unlike the Dorne plot, in tone and spirit etc it was everything the Fist of the First Men should have been
Enjoyed the Dany/Tyrion dialogue too
Great to see the Valyrian Steel theories confirmed, I thought Longclaw would be relevant when it was in the “Previously” section at the start, but though Jon Snow would have to duel with Rattleshirt or something and LC would give him the edge
The WTF look on the WW face was priceless
Great stuff of Birgette I think her name was
Sad in a way she had to end up dying as she filled the void left by Val in a sense, at the same time they needed to give a face to the people who were killed and raised as Wights at Hardhome, along with Rattleshirt being the face of resistance who Tormund had to kill in Wildling fashion + the Thenn being the face of those who are resistant and comes around when seeing the greater threat (I expect Dolorous Edd in the NW version and will play a role in convincing people next week to open the Gate)
It’s pretty much a Rock/Scissors/Paper scenario
Fire kills Wights (which they seemed to have forgotton…) but it won’t kill WW, Dragonglass will kill White Walkers but will be like a normal dagger against Wights
There are theories of a third level of Other hierarchy we haven’t seen yet which I found interesting, eg a female leadership caste or something
Obviously Valyrian Steel kills Wight Walkers too, but the magic probably does other stuff too. Dawn the Fallen Star blade that the Daynes hold in Dorne is most fascinating
Most has already been said I will just add my shirt thoughts:
Just Perfect!!!! Not only one of my favorite GOT episodes ever but one of my favorite episodes of any television show I’ve ever seen. I’m speechless
My favorite moments from tonight’s episode were:
– Theon’s confession about the boys. Alfie Allen just owns that role and I love it!
– Dany & Tyrion… man, they’re so amazing on screen together. Dany really looked worn down too. Not sure if that was done on purpose but it added to her stressed out vibe.
– “OYSTERS! CLAMS! COCKLES!” I was sooo hoping they’d put that in. It just made me smile because I thought it really made the book come to life. 🙂
– Cersei drinking off the floor! I raised a glass of water during that shit. Her final moments of the season are going to be so satisfying to watch I’m sure.
– Sam saying to Olly about Jon “He always comes back.” Foreshadowing much? I’m pretty much 100% convinced Olly will be involved in a certain mutiny event.
– The Giant. He was just awesome.
I’m not sure about Olly actively participating in a ‘certain mutiny event.’ The kid is still asking questions, trying to come to a right conclusion. Somebody said they thought Edd would participate, to which I disagree. If anything, Edd would be on Jon’s side, more than ever, having seen what happened at Hardhome. I would think he would respect Jon even more for coming to the correct conclusion about how much they are going to need every possible man to battle the WW. Thorne – ecch – he redeemed himself from being an ass for about 10 seconds when he battled so bravely last season. Now he’s back to being a jerk. Jon should have sent him where he was going to send Janos Slynt. Instead, he honors him by making him first ranger, and the first thing Thorne does is harass Sam.
That scene with Jorah out the door again was sad. What was he looking at on the top of the walls as he was walking away?
I’ve never been a big “fan” of something as much as I am a fan of this show, and it kind of amazes me. The next two episodes are going to be wrenching and wonderful. Didn’t one of the cast member say that episode 10 was going to break the Internet? After this one, I believe it.
I can’t stop thinking of that scene with Cersei slurping water from the floor. As much as I believe she needed some attitude adjustment and some strong schooling in keeping bouts of over-proudness out of politics, I didn’t need to see her brought quite so low. Brought low to advance who? The Septa? The High Sparrow? any of the Sparrow followers? I’d rather have a somewhat humbled and enlightened Cersei than any of those fanatics. But the world seems to think she needs to be totally smacked down, so I guess that’s gonna happen. But I want to see the HS go, too. Don’t leave him in charge.
dothrakian raven,
A wight is not at all like an Other or a White Walker. The 13 are Others. Our Chieftainess is a wight. So I would say there is no chance she’ll become one of the thirteen.
Maginor,
Awesome sauce! Maybe Bran will warg into Hodor again and get to be the true knight he’d always dreamt of being, although that would be hard on Hodor.
Fantastic Episode.
Nothing beats this.
*spoiler predictions*
I really want Ramsey to be captured by stannis or something like that and melisandre sacrificing Roose Bolton’s unborn child .
And and I want Dany And Tyrion to seek help of Dorne who oblige and then there’s a mini lannister reunion between Tyrion and Jamie .
I am very eager to see what they do with arya’s story I hope she kills Ser Meryn and sends a warning to Mace.
I hope They have a showdown between the NK and Jon.And suddenly his Sword lights up
marvan ebrahimzadeh,
An Other isn’t the same thing as a wight. The Others, called White Walkers on the show, are the more distinguished, sentient soldiers and leaders who are white and frosty. The wights are mindless zombies who do the Others’ bidding. Dragon glass and Valyrian steel kill Others. Fire kills wights. That said, I expected them to at least attempt to set the village and wooden wall on fire and to fight with torches since there were tens of thousands of wights and only a handful of Others at Hardome.
Aryamad,
Anyone else catch qyburns “the work continues” statement? A certain something is coming if you’ve read the books you’ll know 🙂
dothrakian raven,
That’s a false statement. Balon Greyjoy is the 5th proclaimed king in the War of the Five Kings. They also actively participated in the War and Balon Greyjoy is still alive as far as Tyrion knows. I didn’t hear Greyjoy either.
The discussion starts like this:
He is basically asking who of the rich (Houses of Westeros) will back her, trying to test her and figure out if she is thinking of a plan to get some allies when she goes back if you ask me.
Tyrion is there to advise her. He left out three Houses who she could look for alliance and she simply didn’t think on it, going on about the breaking of the wheel because she will have a large army, the support of the common people and three large dragons. My opinion is that she needs Tyrion. She’s too cocky.
As for what she means, I agree. She has no plan but destroying those Houses came easily to mind since I don’t agree with the popular opinion that I’ve read a lot on this site that she plans to destroy the current system of ruling in Westeros. I simply don’t think she can institute a Democratic Republic of Westeros or that she plans to give away the power, you see? 😛 Maybe a military dictatorship!
The problem with this idea is that there is no indication that the White Walkers take recruits. One idea about Littlefinger was that he was working for the White Walkers: but by now it really looks like they just don’t work that way.
Tormund’s Woman,
More probably she simply intends to expand the rights of the common people. “More rights” ≠ “Liberal Democracy” but when has it ever? Even the evolution of democratic systems is slow: “one man, one vote” always begins with “man” meaning a subset of the people and only slowly expanding to include all people.
It’s not much of a deviation, though. The major difference was that Jon and Tormund were there, as well as the cameras. Of course it was Hollywoodized, but that is to be expected and even desired. It was a nice sequence and fun to watch.
I agree, the Fist should have been this awesome. The difference was almost certainly about money. Thank you, unsullied hordes, for causing the budget to be increased. We long-term fans thank you.
After a long time I took a peek at the sad husk of what was once TWOP/PTV Unsullied forum. Sure enough, half of them there hated this episode something fierce. One of them even, check this out, hated that the show turned into a cartoon on White Walkers, wights, and the like.
One could almost be excused for forgetting that WWs appeared in the VERY. FIRST. SCENE. this show ever put to air. Where has this cartoon come from, right?
Tormund’s Woman,
Or just an absolute monarchy. She could make a standing army, take lands for the crown. But I don’t think the end is a happy ending.
dragonbringer,
no Spiders!! 😉
Wimsey,
I think you are probably right about what she intends. However, the pompous way Dany has of stating things would make one think that she intends to damn well invent a new political wheel, if you get my meaning, which would imply a fundamental, instant, radical, new movement (I think I could have added another adjective for movement there but I decided to not overdo it :p).
Giving more rights to people is hardly such a move in my opinion. I see it as a slow one man-one vote change as you like to call it. I find her breaking the slavery system in Slaver’s Bay is more radical than that.
loco73,
NOOO! It’s sold out already.. I didn’t realize…
Isnt Arya’s tiny sword made of Valariyan Steel also?
No. Needle is made of castle-forged steel courtesy of Mikken (sp?) the Winterfell blacksmith.
Ginevra,
She could become show version of CH, perhaps she had not totally passed over by the end and because of this retains her memories and consciousness. There is a reason the camera focused on her near the end, rumor has it the actress appears in ep. 10, me thinks she is show Val, after all in the books GRRM made a point of Jon noticing that post HH Val’s eyes were blue, when they weren’t previously, but she was animate, not zombiefied.
Tormund’s Woman,
Tecnically you are right. But the Greyjoys wouldn’t count to the 5 as we know them. The Tyrells are reacher and more powerful according to the show whereas the Greyjoys are the shadow of themselves. It goes without saying that in this world a system like democracy wouldn’t work as it does not work in our more advanced world. The political system of democracy in its true essence can only be achieved by relatively medium, very well educated communities and then again as in Ancient Athens it cannot survive the lust for power which is one of the basic themes for ASOIAF. What we have know more or less and falsely call it democracy is a kind of an extensive representative political formation (and that is not the case everywhere in the world of course) where the many have an illusion of participating in the decisions being made. Dany of course means that she wants to destroy the wheel of an obsolete feudal system. She doesn’t say what will replace it but if someone has read history the natural outcome would have been a meritocratic system like that Solon tried to establish in Athens or maybe something along the lines of the Aristoteleian enlightened monarch or the enlightened Renaissance prince/princess. There is of course Platons option. This is something that we have to wait and see of course but Dany already raises the stakes of the political game as it is played now by most players.
tyjon,
Might she possibly be our eyes and ears in the Land of Always Winter; or, if you will, the Long Night as it proceeds south?
If that is the case, though, I wonder if we will or should see ‘conversations’ between a wight like herself and the White Walkers, or if it’s best to just leave them as an infrequently seen existential threat that will never be fully explained.
I want to see Episodes 5×07+5×08 in IMAX! IMAX! IMAX! IMAX! PEOPLE JOIN THE STOMPING WUNWUN IN! IMAX! IMAX! IMAX! IMAX!
How closely did you have to listen, Tormund basically screamed: WUUUUNWUUUUN!!!!! TO THE SEEEAAAA!!!!!!!!
It was damn surreal. At one moment, I thought I was looking at a Dutch masters painting of a sea battle. The sky, the waves, the lighting… A piece of art really that just spoke authentic to me. It quite literally blew anything from Blackwater out of.. well.. pardon the pun, water..
Quentyn dies in Meereen, unless you believe the theories that he’s alive, so how would Jorah take over his role and how would that get Greyscale to Westeros?
I’m more inclined to believe that while Dany sails to a Pro-Targ-Restoration Small Council in KL (Excluding Mace, you’ve got: Qyburn (Magic=Dragons), Varys, Tarly, Nym Sand?), that Jorah will get to Dorne, to negotiate with, which will tell us it was Doran’s plot all along, the Stormlands follow through conquest, or by having diplomatic Jaime (bound to servitude by Doran) argue with Selwyn Tarth to join the Targ-Restoration. The Reach will follow when the Tyrell’s get sidetracked by Euron in the Reach and backstabbed by Tarly in KL. Then it’s just the question of who’s going to deal with the Ironborn (Battle at Highgarden?) and is Jaime going to get the Westerlands behind Dany, or will he end up opposing her due to Tyrion being the chief advisor and it being a seemingly unpossibility due to Dany resenting him for killing pops.. Or she may forgive him ala how Barristan had been forgiven by King Bob.
The last battle will definitely start with Jon saying: “For Frodo…”, with the dwarf Tyrion and elf Daenarys at his sides.. oh, and don’t forget Ghost the White.
That was great.
Something that struck me about the bigger picture. This is about Fire vs Ice. Dragons vs whites. Now we have the man with the plan at Blackwater Bay side by side with the mother of dragons. Kill it !!!! Kill it with fire!!!!! Some how Jon and the red woman will end up with Dany also.
Mr Fixit,
Well, then, I pity the fools at TWOP.
A frequent complaint of book readers–any book readers, not just those of ASOIAF–is that a TV or cinematic version never matches the image they had in their head.
Though both readers and viewers may well have had a sketchy idea of what they wanted to see with the Tyrion and Dany meet-up and the Hardhome mission, there was no canonical expectation the show had to match, nothing pre-packaged for one’s mind which would cause anything on screen to be found wanting.
I find it hard to believe that anyone at TWOP has the creative juices to have imagined (much less planned out and staged) anything even close to what GoT delivered.
I was astounded–and a little disappointed in myself–that I did not anticipate even the possibility of the exceptional execution of the Meereen and Hardhome scenes.
Dinklage was on fire (doh, not meant to be a dragon pun!) and truly gave us a Tyrion unleashed, as if for the first time. Talk about ‘first date’ game and mastery!
And others here have already pointed out the virtuosity of Hardhome. As with the recent ‘Mad Max Fury Road,’ one asks oneself, where was the camera? Though obviously fantastical, everything seemed so real and flowed so well that we never lost track of who was where and what was what and why it all mattered.
All of us here are GoT junkies, of course, and I’ve found that there are basically three outsider reactions to our world: people are either too smart for it, too dumb for it, for they just don’t care.
In which of these camps is TWOP?
Ohh yes, I know it’s coming and I can’t wait. Lena will slay that scene. So excited! XD
Oh yeah…
If Stannis burns his little girl alive I am going to feel sick, that would be horrible. I am actually getting sick just typing this just thinking about it.
Mr Fixit,
Had meant to write “… OR they just don’t care” in my earlier reply (GoT frenzy sausage fingers on the keyboard).
Anyhow, TWOP (Television Without Pity, correct?) is just a snark site, as its name suggests, right? If so, I guess we shouldn’t be surprised.
lol srsly? The reason why the camera showed her face is to show shes a wight and nothing more.
Rodrik the Reader,
They were once a great forum, brimming with extremely witty and intelligent people who were hardcore Unsullied: no book talk, no DVD extras, no previews, nothing, complete radio silence. Once upon a time they were a joy to read with crazy theorycrafting, great insights that could often put the Sullied to shame. I’m surprised you haven’t heard of them; they were rather “famous” in book reader circles with quite a few people lurking and reading what they had to say (any kind of Sullied interference was verboten). Alas, bit by bit, they lost their enthusiasm for one reason or another, and these days it’s just a few of them left, constantly dissing the show and seemingly deriving no pleasure out of it.
Ah well. As Q would say: “All good things must come to an end.”
If we are Castle Black, then they are the Shadow Tower, perhaps.
WunWun,
JHC, Just trying to reason why the actress would appear in ep. 10, she is listed on IMDB, but of course that could be misleading, but if she were to return, why? and of what importance. She wouldn’t just be some wight, would have to serve some purpose.
FYI, in the books Val’s eyes changed to blue after coming back from HH.
Rodrik the Reader,
Nah. More like… Hardhome? 😉
Swordpen,
Actually… it may be someone a lot bigger and stronger.
I absolutely agree in your assessment. Imposing democracy from without never works. it has to begin from within and is a slow process. Pulling from events in the human history of this world, her best chance to “break the wheel” would be to outlaw bannermen, the regional armies of the Seven Kingdoms, and create one armed force loyal only to the crown and ultimately controlled by one commander, the king or queen. In addition some sort of parliamentary system should be created so that each regions’ concerns and interests could be represented.
Wimsey,