Game of Thrones ratings remain flat for another week with Ep. 504 “Sons of the Harpy”

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The initial viewership numbers of the week are in. With 6.82 million pairs of eyes watching the first airing, the fourth episode of Game of Thrones S5 matched the performance of the second one, which constitutes a slight rise from last week. It looks like Game of Thrones won the night once more.

Overall, the numbers for episodes two through four have been essentially flat. Many will await next week with eager anticipation to see what the viewership of the first non-leaked episode this season is going to be. There should be an uptick, common sense tells us, but just how big of an effect there will be I’m not sure about.

108 responses

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    1. I expect the numbers to drop for Episode 5 (Mother’s Day) and then climb up past 7 million for Episode 6. The impact of the leaks is overstated, in my opinion.

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    2. Stupid leaks. Anyone who said the leaks will have no effect should eat a big bag of shit,i can even tell by the episode preview for episode 5 on the official youtube channel that it had more views in a day than the previous one had in a week and you are telling me it had no effect ?

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    3. The leaks do have some effect. My guess is that it would be about 7 Million without it.

      The ratings don’t matter much anymore. The show have enough viewers world wide. It will come to a logical conclusion with a proper budget. That is all that matters when it comes to these numbers.

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    4. The leaks were downloaded over 32 million times, and that’s only from torrent sites.

      Sorry, but that absolutely is going to eat into ratings. It’s ludicrous to say that it didn’t have a significant impact.

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    5. Tatters,

      It wouldn’t matter if you thought the show was strong lately
      It still would not have continued to rise thanks to the leaks

      based on the reviews Game of thrones does not is a quality problem
      It has a piracy problem and I think HBO is going to be a lot more careful about giving out screeners next season because of that

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    6. Tatters,

      The show has been great this season and without question a huge improvement over the books they are covering.

      So glad they streamlined books 4 and 5 to get to the end of the story.

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    7. I hate the fact that Sansa is getting a big storyline and screentime just because David and Dan love her. That isn’t how an adaptation should work. They shouldn’t pick favourites and put all of their effort into giving them a meaty storyline

      Sansa (and Sophie) is great but should have been given the ‘Bran treatment’ this season where she takes a back seat. She has already surpassed her book content so why make her take over someone elses storyline. That just isn’t fair to Theon. The Winterfell arc should have been his but David and Dan just had to give it to Sansa

      Also, it looks like Arya is missing again in next weeks episode which would be 2 in a row (and would mean she was only in 2 out of the first 5 episodes). That means that Arya is getting the Bran treatment. Again, that just isn’t fair. She actually has a decent amount of content and this could/should have been a big season for her. But D&D are obviously focusing on their favourites and giving new material to them whereas they are taking away material from Arya

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    8. tyrion101356:
      i can even tell by the episode preview for episode 5 on the official youtube channel that it had more views in a day than the previous one had in a week and you are telling me it had no effect ?

      This!

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    9. mau,

      Not good enough; those numbers should be much better for the ” greatest show ever aired on TV.”
      Technolgy has found ways of pirateing this show,and thats unfortunate.

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    10. tyrion101356,

      Wow tyrion101356 you read my mind lol

      I was just about to bring up the youtube views for the episode 5 preview trailer
      its already becoming the most watched preview of the season so far

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    11. Dexter,

      This is complete rubbish. The number of episodes characters appear in is meaningless. Arya has had more screen time then Sansa so far, and probably will for the whole season too.

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    12. mau: After “D&D hate Stannis ” nonsense, now he have “D&D hate Arya”.

      Im not saying that they hate Arya. But, this really should have been a bit season for her but has only appeared in two episodes out of 5 (if she isn’t in next weeks). Sansa, on the other hand, doesn’t have anything left in the books so D&D decided to write an entire new storyline just to give her screentime. They didn’t even need to do that to justify giving Arya screentime. Sansa will be in all five episodes after next week whereas Arya will only have been in 2. Im just saying that that isn’t fair to the character (its also not fair to Theon who has only been in 1 episode and whose storyline has been taken over)

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    13. Dexter,

      You mean the same books where GRRM has published exactly 11 POV chapters for Bran, Sansa, and Arya combined in the last 14+years? The author forgot about his main characters. The show did not.

      The show is already so much better then the books. Once you realize the rough draft version (the books) pails in comparison the the final draft (the show)… The happier you will be.

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    14. Dexter: Im not saying that they hate Arya. But, this really should have been a bit season for her but has only appeared in two episodes out of 5 (if she isn’t in next weeks). Sansa, on the other hand, doesn’t have anything left in the books so D&D decided to write an entire new storyline just to give her screentime. They didn’t even need to do that to justify giving Arya screentime. Sansa will be in all five episodes after next week whereas Arya will only have been in 2. Im just saying that that isn’t fair to the character (its also not fair to Theon who has only been in 1 episode and whose storyline has been taken over)

      Sansa has Theon, Roose, LF, Ramsey, Brienne,…

      And Arya has Jaqen H’gar.

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    15. Dexter,

      1. Lets wait and see how the season plays out before deciding if Theon was shortchanged. Also, in case you forgot, Theon disappeared for two books, but was included in both season 3 and 4. His first few chapters in ADWD were basically catching up on what happened to him, as well as having him go to Moat Cailin, which happened in season 4.

      2. Having Sansa and LF take a back seat wouldn’t help any, as D&D have no plan to include the HTH plot. So if she takes a season off, she is left with nothing to do but sit around in the Vale.

      3. Arya has more total screen time in the first 4 episodes than Sansa, and she is still 5th overall this season.

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    16. tyrion101356:
      i can even tell by the episode preview for episode 5 on the official youtube channel that it had more views in a day than the previous one had in a week

      Nice catch !

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    17. That pic…I’m still adjusting to dead-eyed, fanatic Lancel. I’ve got to give credit to Eugene Simon, I didn’t notice or think of him a whole lot in s1 and 2 (not that he was bad or anything), but he’s impressed this year.

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    18. HBO announced a preliminary count (their won tally sheet ) for Episode 1, but never saw anything final or what the outside the USA count was.

      Bottom line is the show can only add so many more since it is ‘R rated’ in the MPAA sense. Only billion dollar block busters are now PG 13.
      I think a BIG GoT movie could make that but only if it went out PG 13.

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    19. That fckng Mother’s Day!
      Was realy hoping to see the true numbers after this leaking thing!

      Why is that day is a big deal anyway, im in Europe and we only celebrate our mothers and grandmothers with a phonecall in the morning, or have a breakfast at most. What do Americans do? Go to sleepover?

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    20. Dexter,

      I’m pretty sure D&D have said that Theon is their favourite character, so I don’t think they’re going to shortchange him.

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    21. You will be queen:
      That fckng Mother’s Day!
      Was realy hoping to see the true numbers after this leaking thing!

      Why is that day is a big deal anyway, im in Europe and we only celebrate our mothers and grandmothers with a phonecall in the morning, or have a breakfast at most. What do Americans do? Go to sleepover?

      Usually take out their mom’s for dinner, etc. Which means they likely not home to watch GOT live

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    22. I expect 7.4 mil for episode 5
      Don’t ask where I got this number from, just go with it 😛

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    23. You will be queen:
      That fckng Mother’s Day!
      Was realy hoping to see the true numbers after this leaking thing!

      Why is that day is a big deal anyway, im in Europe and we only celebrate our mothers and grandmothers with a phonecall in the morning, or have a breakfast at most. What do Americans do? Go to sleepover?

      Most people in America treat others like garbage. They need holidays like Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, & Valentine’s Day to overcompensate. lol

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    24. mau,

      It’s always “D&D hate -insert character that didn’t appear this week-” for purists just to find a reason to insult out the showrunners.

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    25. The Bastard:
      Dexter,

      The show is already so much better then the books. Once you realize the rough draft version (the books) pails in comparison the the final draft (the show)… The happier you will be.

      Seven hells, I thought Sue has banned Jester. Great bait there mate.

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    26. Dexter,

      I agree. Sansa’s show storyline feels like an OOC Sansa stan fic, which is because D&D are pressed Sansa stans. As much as I love her character, shoving her down our throats in this terrible story isn’t doing her or the show any favors. If Bran, one of the five key players in the series, supposedly needed to take a break because of lack of book content, then a supporting character like Sansa should have too.

      The leaks might have hurt the ratings, but from what I’m hearing even from show-only viewers, the poor storytelling quality these past couple seasons is also a likely factor. This season’s been pretty boring, which is surprising even the content they have to work with. D&D should have just posted their OOC!Sansa fic on AO3 where all the other unrealistic “Sansa as Lady of Winterfell/Queen in the North” mess can sifted through, instead of including it in this adaptation.

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    27. Greatjon of Slumber,

      Here it is. (someone on the GoT imdb forum did it)
      1. Cersei Lannister- 23:59
      2. Jon Snow- 22:08
      3. Tyrion Lannister- 15:29
      4. Daenerys Targaryen- 14:27
      5. Arya Stark- 14:12
      6. Petyr “Littlefinger” Baelish- 13:28
      7. Sansa Stark- 12:33
      8. Jaime Lannister- 12:12
      9. Brienne of Tarth- 11:48
      10. Stannis Baratheon- 10:39

      11. Bronn- 9:19
      12. Lord Varys- 9:03
      13. Margaery Tyrell- 7:59
      14. Podrick Payne- 7:42
      15. Tommen Baratheon- 7:41
      16. Samwell Tarly- 7:26
      17. Grey Worm- 7:12
      18. Mance Rayder- 7:10
      19. Barristan Selmy- 6:58
      20. Daario Naharis- 6:46

      21. Melisandre- 6:31
      22. Shireen Baratheon- 5:50
      23. Roose Bolton- 4:39
      24. Davos Seaworth- 4:36
      25. Olly- 4:34
      26. The Kindly Man/Jaqen Hagar- 4:34
      27. Janos Slynt- 4:16
      28. Mossador- 4:06
      29. High Sparrow- 3:57
      30. Ellaria Sand- 3:57

      31. Jorah Mormont- 3:53
      32. Gilly- 3:36
      33. Alliser Thorne- 3:34
      34. Missandei- 3:31
      35. Eddison Tollett- 3:05
      36. Grand Maester Pycelle- 3:01
      37. Qyburn- 2:51
      38. Ramsay Bolton- 2:50
      39. Loras Tyrell- 2:50
      40. The Waif- 2:47

      41. Lancel Lannister- 2:40
      42. High Septon- 2:40
      43. Othell Yarwyck- 2:38
      44. Mace Tyrell- 2:35
      45. Melara Hetherspoon- 2:34
      46. Olyvar- 2:33
      47. Kevan Lannister- 2:21
      48. Meryn Trant- 2:14
      49. Maester Aemon- 2:13
      50. Hizdahr Zo Loraq- 2:13

      51. Selyse Baratheon- 2:07
      52. Maggy the Frog- 1:59
      53. White Rat- 1:57
      54. Lollys Stokeworth- 1:54
      55. Tywin Lannister’s corpse- 1:42
      56. Braavosi Captain- 1:39
      57. Tyene Sand- 1:39
      58. Doran Martell- 1:38
      59. Theon “Reek” Greyjoy- 1:27
      60. Nymeria Sand- 1:26

      61. Obara Sand- 1:22
      62. Tormund Giantsbane- 1:04
      63. Yohn Royce- 00:53
      64. Denys Mallister- 00:43
      65. Robin Arryn- 00:30
      66. Areo Hotah- 00:29
      67. The Mountain- 00:29
      68. Walda Bolton- 00:25
      69. Trystane Martell- 00:10
      70. Myrcella Baratheon- 00:10

      71. Myranda- 00:08

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    28. Stacy,

      But Sansa is a pivotal POV character, alongside Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya and Bran. She has more POV chapters then Bran, so if anything she’s in the “main 5” now. She isn’t supporting, she has been a feature of all seasons, so why would they stop now? She’s obviously important to the end game, otherwise D&D wouldn’t take this route with her.

      The whole Queen in the North thing is a red herring imo, the fact they’ve referenced her being “wardeness” of the North already means it won’t happen.

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    29. tyrion101356,

      the official youtube channel that it had more views in a day than the previous one had in a week and you are telling me it had no effect ?

      Youtube views are global and everyone knows this show is pirated massively around the world so it doesn’t surprise me to a see a jump in youtube views. It doesn’t mean anything when it comes to HBO nielsen viewership in America though and it’s futile to try and draw a connection between youtube views and American TV ratings. I made that mistake back in season 1 when I saw how GoT previews on youtube where getting twice as many views as Boardwalk Empires S1 previews so I assumed GoT would get much higher ratings and then it debuted to less than half of Boardwalk Empire’s premiere ratings.

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    30. Stacy,

      This season’s been pretty boring, which is surprising even the content they have to work with.

      LOL what books were you reading? The issue with AFFC/ADWD is not just that they need a little bit of editing and they would be great. All the great plot dynamics of the first 3, the Stark/Lannister war, Tyrion’s maneuverings in Kings Landing, Sansa as a Lannister hostage, the sadist boy king Joffrey who audiences loved to hate, Tywin, etc. are all gone and the story basically has to reboot for AFFC/ADWD and it just isn’t anywhere near as good or engaging as it previously was.

      No one who read those books should be surprised if this season isn’t as well received or as exciting previous ones. Going by the books this season should have fallen off a cliff quality wise but so far it hasn’t and for that I will give D&D credit.

      edit- Rereading your comment I’m not sure if I misuderstood you and maybe you meant that this season is boring even considering they have lackluster content to work with.

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    31. Anyone would be a fool to think the leaks didn’t have an effect on the ratings!

      Nearly everyone I know who loves GOT downloaded, or borrowed them, and have seen the episodes.

      Even when Episode 4 aired in glorious HD I tried to get a co-worker of mine to watch it and he said “Nah, I’ve already seen it”.

      It DEFINITELY has an effect.

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    32. Stacy,

      This season has been better than it had any right to be, IMO. I’m not a hater of AFFC/ADWD, but even I admit they were poorly structured, with non-climactic endings for most of the POV’s. They were a step down from the first 3 books, particularly AGOT and ASOS. So I came into this season with lower expectations. I have been pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed the first 4 episodes. And judging by the reviews from tv critics, they do not believe the show has dropped in quality either.

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    33. I swear some fans are stupid. I used to get mad at my fellow Stannis fans for their crying, now is arya fans whining and blaming D&D. How had the final scene of the first episode last year? Who had the season finale scene last year. Who didn’t? Sansa.
      This season is not even over and you’re complaining! How about just wait and see where her story takes her because last I checked, she didn’t have many chapters in the book at this point.

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    34. Well we know for a fact by seasons end Jon Snow has the most screentime. Kit Harington as well as D&D confirmed this. That being said I expect Arya to be in the top 5 of screentime by the end of the season. It’s only 4 episodes. There is still 60% of the season to go. So I think some should relax and let it play out.

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    35. KrakenDaughter:
      mau,

      It’s always “D&D hate -insert character that didn’t appear this week-” for purists just to find a reason to insult out the showrunners.

      “Purists” do not make this critique. Heck, they are used to waiting a DECADE without seeing someone. A “purist” most certainly would not be upset about not seeing Arya for a week or two, as was a subject of conversation yesterday.

      I think “purist” has become a pejorative around here meaning “Anyone who criticizes my Precious Little Snowflake TV show or its Holy Directors for any reason”.

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    36. Chad Brick,

      Nah, just the ones who say things like they were embarrassed to watch the show, or constantly deride the show-runners and people who actually enjoy the show, especially those who then turn around and complain people are being derisive with them. 🙂

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    37. mau,

      How…
      I’ve yet to ever see a single scene of Arya I disliked… The closest was the “near miss” @ the Vale.

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    38. Balerion The Cat,

      Interesting and thanks…but are these numbers actual “screen” time or “scene” time? The reason why I ask is that Myranda has been in much more than 8 seconds of scene time. I would expect these numbers to overlap if it was scene time and the total to be much more than the cumulative screen time of the episodes (often the camera is focused on a certain character while another is talking or vice-versa, but they are both critical to the scene). I think scene time is more relevant than simple screen time. There is no way Theon has only had 1:27 of scene time.

      An analogy would be that a Davos PoV chapter may also have Stannis and/or Mel. Maybe someday I’ll figure out or find a kindle app to extract similar “scene” metrics from the books. Might be an interesting comparison.

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    39. Hodor’s Bastard: …Myranda has been in much more than 8 seconds of scene time. ….
      There is no way Theon has only had 1:27 of scene time.

      Nevermind about those concerns. I misinterpreted the range of the data.

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    40. Hodor’s Bastard:

      Interesting and thanks…but are these numbers actual “screen” time or “scene” time? The reason why I ask is that Myranda has been in much more than 8 seconds of scene time. I would expect these numbers to overlap if it was scene time and the total to be much more than the cumulative screen time of the episodes (often the camera is focused on a certain character while another is talking or vice-versa, but they are both critical to the scene). I think scene time is more relevant than simple screen time.There is no way Theon has only had 1:27 of scene time.

      The numbers make sense to me for the first 4 episodes this season.

      Which show did you watch that featured Myranda more? Are you thinking of a different character? Because she has only been in ONE scene, reacting to Sansa’s arrival in Winterfell. Where else has she been?

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    41. Chad Brick,

      You’re a hater and a purist,that’s enough said, All you do is come here and annoy people,no one likes you except for the people of your own kind(the lowest sub human trash) so why bother ?

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    42. JamesL,

      You didn’t prove anything with that statement,continue believing the leaks did not have any effect on the episodes and we will see who was right in the coming weeks .

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    43. Stacy,

      The only people who say the show is boring, are the Transformers/Avengers type of crowd who only care about seeing tits,gore and battles and anything else is too complicated for their small brains. I don’t hold these type of people in higher regard than the book purists,to me they are the same type of scum .

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    44. Lars,

      Apologies for the confusion (no editing after 10min). I simply wanted to know if it was screen or scene time. Like I stated above, I misinterpreted the range of the data and shouldn’t have included the Theon or Myranda numbers in the context of the question.

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    45. Stacy:
      Sansa’s show storyline feels like an OOC Sansa stan fic, which is because D&D are pressed Sansa stans.

      Sorry, is this English?

      I have no earthly idea what a “pressed Sansa stan” is supposed to be, and I highly doubt the showrunners do either.

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    46. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      Stacy,

      This season has been better than it had any right to be, IMO. I’m not a hater of AFFC/ADWD, but even I admit they were poorly structured, with non-climactic endings for most of the POV’s. They were a step down from the first 3 books, particularly AGOT and ASOS. So I came into this season with lower expectations. I have been pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed the first 4 episodes. And judgingby the reviews from tv critics, they do not believe the show has dropped in quality either.

      Well said. I feel similarly. The show has to be its own animal – it’ll be off by itself beginning next year, so why not transition now. The critics have been generally very, very positive on the results, with some even saying that the show has been saved now by throwing out the books.

      (To everyone else: the phrase “everyone I know says…” is not evidence of anything related to ratings, the money HBO makes, the outlook for the series. The plural of “anecdote” is not “data.” )

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    47. tyrion101356:
      Chad Brick,

      You’re a hater and a purist,that’s enough said, All you do is come here and annoy people,no one likes you except for the people of your own kind(the lowest sub human trash) so why bother ?

      Where is it said that you cannot criticize the show on these forums? Are we all supposed to sit around and just hail D&D endlessly, even when they drop bombs like the Sand Snake scene, shower us in illogical clusterbleeps like the Sansa story this season, give Selmy lame death in order to save a few bucks, or nakedly spill the beans to the audience or change important lines because they assume the TV audience is composed of mouth-breathing morons?

      Or perhaps the issue is more broad. For four seasons, we got a book-to-TV-adaption that mostly followed the books. These season, we are lucky to get more than one or two moments or conversations from the books, because the divergences are so large. Off the top of my head, the only conversation in E4 that came from the books was between Jorah and Tyrion. The rest was either stuff that did not happen on page in the books but could have (Selmy’s conversation with Dany, which was centered on a nice little easter egg about Rhaegar), which book fans are generally fine with, and in an every growing proportion scenes that could not have happened in the books and are often contradictory to even themselves and the TV-universe if you think about it.

      Why are YOU here if you don’t want to discuss and debate the show?

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    48. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      Chad Brick,

      Nah, just the ones who say things like they were embarrassed to watch the show, or constantly deride the show-runners and people who actually enjoy the show, especially those who then turn around and complain people are being derisive with them.

      The Sand Snake scene WAS embarrassing, and plenty of people have singled it out for its awfulness. And I haven’t seen anyone deride people who enjoy the show. I HAVE seen people deride and directly insult anyone who dares criticize it…in this very thread even.

      Btw, my first post after each episode is composed of a list of things I liked and didn’t like. What makes you think that I, or anyone else you deride as a “purist”, doesn’t like the show? The problem is that we used to love it.

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    49. Arya’s scenes have been the least interesting so far this season, along with every scene Dany has been in. I’m expecting this to change as the season goes on, but so far, theirs are the ones I skip through when re-watching the first 4 episodes.

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    50. Chad Brick,

      That’s right, I’m sorry, those who have issues with the show are merely expressing their opinions, and anyone who disagrees with any of those opinions considers the show their “precious little snowflake” and the directors to be “holy.” Yeah, no condescension or derision there, hahahahaha.

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    51. I can understand the frustration with wanting to critique the show without having people jump down your throat. There are some posters who are overly defensive, and in the process are just as bad or worse than the “purists”. With that said, if you want to be treated respectfully, it would help if you didn’t speak in condescending ways or use hyperbole when saying how bad the show is.

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    52. I was looking up reviews for dance of dragons and found this one:

      “Well, then here are my two cents: George Martin has become the contemporary Darth Vader of the Fantasy world. His influence is toxic. He is a powerful villain in the Fantasy Fiction Galaxy. He exploits his fan base, he crafts inferior works designed NOT to advance a story, he utilizes a vast marketing machine to sell a series that even in its best moments contains an ugly and erroneous world view and which in its worst moments panders to very vulgar tastes, he insulates himself from criticism, he stigmatizes those who have criticisms, he gives fantasy fiction a bad name.”

      I’m inclined to agree.

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    53. George Martin does all that?

      My goodness, he is far more powerful than I thought. Perhaps it would be best not to anger him.

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    54. Dexter,

      Tbf with Sansa they are merging Harry the Heir in the Vale + Jeyne Poole in the north, so Sansa’s arc is half about articulating Theons ADwD chapters and merging her upcoming Vale WoW stuff into it

      As for Arya, they are giving the main points but allowing a lot of it to be implied, which is good, sometimes off-screen implied development on stuff which involves patience training etc is a good thing as far as a TV show goes

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    55. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      Chad Brick,

      That’s right, I’m sorry, those who have issues with the show are merely expressing their opinions, and anyone who disagrees with any of those opinions considers the show their “precious little snowflake” and the directors to be “holy.”Yeah, no condescension or derision there, hahahahaha.

      I was being condescending to the person who directly insulted me, not people who disagree with me. I reserve that right here and anywhere.

      I stand by my assertion that the word “purist” is used almost exclusively as a pejorative mean to insult and cut off debate and discussion. Do you disagree?

      Tyrion Pimpslap:
      I can understand the frustration with wanting to critique the show without having people jump down your throat. There are some posters who are overly defensive, and in the process are just as bad or worse than the “purists”.

      My sin? Being “condescending” to someone who insulted me directly. The sins of the merely “overly defense”? Hmmm, in the last day, directly calling me “sub-human” and an “idiot”, at minimum. Your “just as bad or worse” has four too many words at the beginning.

      Tyrion Pimpslap:
      With that said, if you want to be treated respectfully, it would help if you didn’t speak in condescending ways or use hyperbole when saying how bad the show is.

      I give respect when I get it. When I don’t, I sometimes reply with some snotty sarcasm, but whoever gets it asked for it. As for hyperbole, what specific instance are you talking about? There is no other word to describe my feeling when I saw the Sand Snake scene other than “embarrassment”, and I am hardly alone in that. Alternatively, are you upset about my use of the word “illogical”? What word better describes the Sansa plot, given that based on the facts we know about the TV-universe, Sansa, Roose, and Littlefinger all have better options than the one being played out on the show. None of them should have chosen this course, let alone all of them. I can certainly understand why D&D tried to pull off this route (it has a sorta-book-like plot and condenses many characters to one setting), and you may even be able to claim it is working in the sense that the typical person watching the show might detect a bit of plot hole (like LF’s cluelessness about Ramsay) but not be overwhelmed by them to the point that it is a major detraction. Even some fans appear to have the ability to suspend disbelief enough to paper them over. Some of us don’t, however, and it greatly diminishes our experience. Fans like us are clearly being thrown under the bus at this point, after four years of a nice ride.

      There were only TWO scenes that were directly adapted from the books in the last episode, Tyrion and Jorah (the setting was different, but the conversation was similar) and Jon and Sam (sending letters off to ask for more men, with an astute swap of Roose for Tommen as the one that hung Jon up). People get upset when I call what remains “fan fiction”, but it is surely not an “adaptation” either when less than 10% of the episode comes from the purported source.

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    56. The show sucks, and everybody who’s defending it should just accept it. I’m glad that at least somebody is enjoying it. The two dudes who developed the show, are just fanfic writers who got the chance to put their shizz on TV. Such a shame because the source material is amazing. But hey, at least they’re progressive with all the “contoversial” scenes and such. Yey.

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    57. Jade Joon: I was looking up reviews for dance of dragons and found this one:

      “Well, then here are my two cents: George Martin has become the contemporary Darth Vader of the Fantasy world. His influence is toxic. He is a powerful villain in the Fantasy Fiction Galaxy. He exploits his fan base, he crafts inferior works designed NOT to advance a story, he utilizes a vast marketing machine to sell a series that even in its best moments contains an ugly and erroneous world view and which in its worst moments panders to very vulgar tastes, he insulates himself from criticism, he stigmatizes those who have criticisms, he gives fantasy fiction a bad name.”

      That’s Stephen King.

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    58. Sometimes, I read these comments, and im like WTF? lol!
      its probably cause I usually only read the unsullied post, and this one sometimes.

      I love the show so much. This seasons has NOT been boring by any means
      – Mance Rayder dies.
      – Jon Snow becomes LC and is really good at it.
      – Sansa returns to winterfell
      – Arya is becoming powerful
      – Dany’s weaknesses are showing more, but her dragons seem to be coming back into play

      I think, that’s a lot of shit. People need to stop complaining man. If you don’t like the show, stop watching.

      The show is NOT the books. Its based on the books. Geez!

      I hope the ratings go up next week because I want GOT to make history!

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    59. The Bastard:
      Dexter,

      You mean the same books where GRRM has published exactly 11 POV chapters for Bran, Sansa, and Arya combined in the last 14+years?The author forgot about his main characters. The show did not.

      The show is already so much better then the books. Once you realize the rough draft version (the books) pails in comparison the the final draft (the show)… The happier you will be.

      I think we have to give credit GRRM for having the initial idea though – without him there would be neither books nor show. I don’t hate AFFC and ADWD though I will concede that some of their content I found heavy going. They just didn’t seem to move as quickly as ASOS – though I guess Dorne had to come into the story sometimes, especially after Prince Oberyn’s appearance in ASOS.

      This paragraph is not related to Bastard’s and Dexter’s comments, with regard to “Sons of the Harpy”, my attention was held by the episode. Regarding Ser B’s and the Unsullied’s alleged lack of fighting prowess, I always hated the (it seemed to be a 1980s thing) films where somebody was shot about five times, or bashed severely over the head with a blunt instrument, but sprang up again as sprightly as before to carry on fighting – well the Terminator could carry it off but he (it?) was a robot – and although GoT is a fantasy it has elements of reality and I would be miffed if I saw a computer game type fight depicted there. There have always been cases of good fighters going down when outnumbered. And we don’t know that the Sons of the Harpy haven’t recruited a few “sell swords” to fight for them…

      Fallen Valyrian – I don’t hate the show the way you seemingly do, in fact I find more to like than to dislike, though of course it’s a free world and you are entitled to your opinion, but I would politely request that you allow people who ARE enjoying the show to have their opinion without belittling them. I appreciate that you were not directly rude but the phrase “The show sucks and those who defend it should just accept it” does seem (to me at least) to imply criticism of those who are still liking the show.

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    60. The Bastard:
      Tatters,

      The show has been great this season and without question a huge improvement over the books they are covering.

      So glad they streamlined books 4 and 5 to get to the end of the story.

      Man your obsession with the books is pathologic XDD

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    61. Dame of Mercia: I would be miffed if I saw a computer game type fight depicted there [GoT]

      You have, many times. Indeed, you saw it in S5E4 with Bronn.

      GoT has been better than most scifi/fantasy/action shows in terms of avoiding egregiously over-powered protagonists, but is far from immune. Daario, for example, has had no less than four such moments. Couldn’t Selmy have had at least one? Dying to Level 1 Grunts, no manner how many of them, does not count.

      People who are disappointed with Selmy’s death are not upset that he didn’t turn out to be some amalgam of Yoda, Hobbit Legolas, and Bruce Lee. They were disappointed that his first and only fight scene was tame by GoT standards and not even the best demonstration of fighting prowess in a single episode. This was compounded by its general pointlessness and odd editing (why the pseudo-cliff hanger, and why spoil it seconds later)?

      He deserved a moment in the sun before he got one in the dirt, and he didn’t get it.

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    62. Chad Brick,

      Oh believe me, CB, there were much, much worse SFX type and unrealistic clashes in some 1980 offerings. Verily far worse than Bronn the Mighty taking out some Dornish horsemen virtually on his lonesome. In one episode of a late 1980s tv series “Midnight Caller” our intrepid hero jumped out of bed with his squeeze of the moment (hasn’t got his shirt on though he’s kept his [long – i.e. not under] pants on in bed) and runs after some wicked potential intruders. I’m thinking also of things where people were shot and yet carried on as if not injured. You personally may not have wanted a Yoda plus Legolas et al moment for Barristan but I think some people did. I am sorry that show Barristan is – I strongly suspect – dead though.

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    63. Dame of Mercia,

      I think part of the problem as that he most bad-ass fight scene in the books (Khrazz) was essentially given to Jorah. I just went back and read that page again, and it was so good.

        Quote  Reply

    64. Chad Brick: People who are disappointed with Selmy’s death are not upset that he didn’t turn out to be some amalgam of Yoda, Hobbit Legolas, and Bruce Lee.

      That’s exactly what people were looking for. Anyone with any sense would find taking on 10 men at once and killing all but one of them impressive.

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    65. UK viewing figures ( 7 days )

      Episode 1 = 2.63m
      Episode 2 = 1.93m

      That’s a big drop, new viewers trying it out for the season premiere and not getting into it?

        Quote  Reply

    66. WRT above found last year’s figures which were around 1.6 – 1.7 m in mid season and 1.81m for the finale, so the jump for S5E1 was really an anomaly.

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    67. Fallen Valyrian,

      AFFC/ADWD are not “amazing”. I liked both books, but there was nothing amazing about them, which is why they are only rated 3.8 and 3.9 stars(out of 5) on Amazon, while the first 3 books are all rated 4.5 or 4.6 stars.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Chad Brick,

      There were only TWO scenes that were directly adapted from the books in the last episode, Tyrion and Jorah (the setting was different, but the conversation was similar) and Jon and Sam (sending letters off to ask for more men, with an astute swap of Roose for Tommen as the one that hung Jon up). People get upset when I call what remains “fan fiction”, but it is surely not an “adaptation” either when less than 10% of the episode comes from the purported source.

      You seem to not understand what the term adaptation means. It is still an adaptation even if there are zero scenes/dialogue that is from the books.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Chad Brick: You have, many times. Indeed, you saw it in S5E4 with Bronn.

      People who are disappointed with Selmy’s death are not upset that he didn’t turn out to be some amalgam of Yoda, Hobbit Legolas, and Bruce Lee.

      You wanted him to be killed by dragons.

      So please…

      Chad Brick: Daario, for example, has had no less than four such moments. Couldn’t Selmy have had at least one?

      No, he couldn’t, because D&D are hacks and they hate him, GRRM, you and all book readers. Ok?

        Quote  Reply

    70. Chad Brick: “

      I think “purist” has become a pejorative around here meaning “Anyone who criticizes my Precious Little Snowflake TV show or its Holy Directors for any reason”.

      You are annoying because you are spreading negativism here. You have nothing good to say about the show and you ignore every argument. And(!) you are talking the same story over and over again, although you are proven to be wrong.

      If you are not able to understand something which is different from the books, go and wait for the books.

        Quote  Reply

    71. I don’t agree with many things Chad says (mainly the fanfic part) but I’m disgusted at those insulting him (or Martin, for that matter…he created AND developed the characters we all love ffs)

        Quote  Reply

    72. I don’t agree with many things Chad says (mainly the fanfic part) but I’m disgusted at those insulting him (or Martin for that matter…he created AND developed the characters we all love ffs)

        Quote  Reply

    73. As I’ve said before I love both the show and the books, but after 4 episodes I was saying to my husband last night, I’m kind of…bored? For the first time. I’m frankly much more stimulated by the online discussions here and on blogs (meereneese blot, bryndenfish, reddit…)

      For example,

      one of the themes this year is apparently “kill the X, become the Y.” I’m so down with that, as well as all the exciting stuff that’s supposed to happen like Daznak’s Pit and Hardhome.

      The conversation between Stannis and Shireen has been the meatiest, most emotional part of this season for me. But overall, what I’ve seen so far isn’t bringing out any depth for me….Instead it feels like the same thing over and over:

      THE WALL
      Stannis: Be Jon Stark!
      Jon: No.
      Davos: Be Jon Stark!
      Jon: No.
      Melisandre: Be Jon Stark! BEWBS.
      Jon: No!

      DORNE
      Ellaria: RAWRGGGHHH DEATH DEAD DIE
      Doran: No.
      Sand Snakes: Sure!
      Jamie and Bronn: Blah blee blah FIGHT

      ARYA
      Arya: I want to be an assassin!

      BRIENNE & POD
      Brienne and Pod: Blah blah blee FIGHT bla bla

      KING’S LANDING
      Cersei: Forget last season when I said I was choosing you. Piss off to Dorne, Jamie!
      Jamie: Okay.
      Loras: SEXXXXX
      Cersei: Dastardly deeds!
      High Sparrow: Whatevs.
      Cersei: Dastardly deeds!
      Kevan: Bitch plz
      Qyburn: *cackle*
      Margaery: SEXXXX
      Tommen: Unh?
      Cersei: Dastardly deeds!
      High Sparrow: Bitch plz
      Qyburn: *cackle*

      SANSA AND LITTLEFINGER
      Littlefinger: Dastardly deeds.
      Sansa: Uh…
      Littlefinger: Dastardly deeds!
      Sansa: Uh, okay?
      Littlefinger: Dastardly deeds! MWAH
      Sansa: WHUT? Oh, okay.
      Roose: Bitch plz
      Sansa: (smiles)
      Old lady: Dastardly deeds!

      MEREEN
      Dany: No.
      Everyone: Do this!
      Dany: No! Um, I’m not sure. Show me more of your butt plz?
      Everyone: Don’t do this!
      Dany: No. I mean, yes. No!
      Dragons: RAWR
      Everyone: FIGHT, DIE

      TYRION
      Tyrion: Complain, drink, complain
      Everyone: DUDE. Get over yourself

      The production values are awesome, the acting is better than ever…and clearly they have to set things up for the latter episodes…but for whatever reason, maybe the writing isn’t as crisp or deep…I’m just not feeling it. It doesn’t feel epic. I’m not even close to giving up or feeling negative about GOT overall, but just wanted to say how it’s hitting me!

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    74. Chad Brick,

      I don’t know how to italicize what you said, so I’ll just put it in quotes:

      “Purists” do not make this critique. Heck, they are used to waiting a DECADE without seeing someone. A “purist” most certainly would not be upset about not seeing Arya for a week or two, as was a subject of conversation yesterday. I think “purist” has become a pejorative around here meaning “Anyone who criticizes my Precious Little Snowflake TV show or its Holy Directors for any reason.”

      I totally agree. This is a board for comments, so if you say you don’t like something or criticize…that’s the purpose of the board, right? I don’t see that as “spreading negativity” nor does comparing things to the books make someone a “purist.” For example, I really missed “Edd, fetch me a block,” rather than “Olly, fetch me my sword” because I hear poetry in the first and not the second. Does that make me a “purist”? No, it’s just an opinion! Geez. Chill out, everyone.

        Quote  Reply

    75. chameleon,

      Criticism as a springboard for discussion is great. However, this individual doesn’t seem to be interested in discussion. Yes, a few people have been over-the-top in their responses and that is unfortunate, but those are the exceptions. When someone comes in calling things a “clusterbleep,” “the episode “cringeworthy” and saying they were embarrassed to watch it (not just the scene with the Sand Snakes, either, simply embarrassed to watch the episode), all while categorizing those who didn’t have the same reaction as treating the show like a “precious snowflake,” it really makes them appear as though they are looking for an argument, not discussion or debate.

        Quote  Reply

    76. chameleon:

      I totally agree. This is a board for comments, so if you say you don’t like something or criticize…that’s the purpose of the board, right?I don’t see that as “spreading negativity” nor does comparing things to the books make someone a “purist.”

      It is a “spreading negativity” if you write the same thing on every foocking article.

      And I mean – every! Even if the article has nothing to do with the content of the show.

        Quote  Reply

    77. mau: You are annoying because you are spreading negativism here. You have nothing good to say about the showand you ignore every argument. And(!)you are talkingthe same story over and over again, although you are proven to be wrong.

      If you are not able to understand something which is different from the books, go and wait for the books.

      I am “spreading negativism” by responding to a direct insult with snark? How about you CONDEMN THE PEOPLE THAT INSULTED ME. Somebody literally called me “sub-human” upthread over an artistic dispute. Frankly, the word “purist” should be banned from these forums. It is by definition hyperbole and always used as a debate-ending insult.

      Btw, I don’t think you know what the word “prove” means. Disagreements about quality are not provable.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      Chad Brick,

      You seem to not understand what the term adaptation means. It is still an adaptation even if there are zero scenes/dialogue that is from the books.

      No, I just disagree with your definition. “loosely based on” and “adaptation” are not the same thing in my mind.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Chad Brick: I am “spreading negativism” by responding to a direct insult with snark? How about you CONDEMN THE PEOPLE THAT INSULTED ME. Somebody literally called me “sub-human” upthread over an artistic dispute. Frankly, the word “purist” should be banned from these forums. It is by definition hyperbole and always used as a debate-ending insult.

      Btw, I don’t think you know what the word “prove” means. Disagreements about quality are not provable.

      You are are being annoying and repetitive long before anyone insulted you.

      People are just tired of that.

        Quote  Reply

    80. Chad Brick: Where is it said that you cannot criticize the show on these forums? Are we all supposed to sit around and just hail D&D endlessly, even when they drop bombs like the Sand Snake scene, shower us in illogical clusterbleeps like the Sansa story this season, give Selmy lame death in order to save a few bucks, or nakedly spill the beans to the audience or change important lines because they assume the TV audience is composed of mouth-breathing morons?

      1. The Sand Snake scene was ridiculous but Episode 4 still rocked.

      2. Littlefinger’s motivation makes no sense. It’s annoying, but it’s going to be fantastic to see Sansa in FakeArya’s place. The over-anticipation that this is going to hurt Theon’s story is ridiculous. Give D&D a chance — they have always treated Theon well.

      3. It’s not to save a few bucks. They have so many advisors for Dany and without the Shavepate/Locust/Hizdahr storyline, there’s simply not enough time to delve into Barristan. I’d have loved to see it, but I can entirely see why it would be too big for Dany’s screentime. Barristan got to go down fighting. It was pretty awesome.

      4. I can only assume you are upset with how transparent R+L=J is when you say “nakedly spill the beans to the audience.” Eh, I can not bring myself to care. I bet most watchers wouldn’t figure it out if a bunch of clickbait articles hadn’t come out.

      5. People need to get over wording. The Fetch Me a Block line made sense in Jon’s internal monologue and it’s a nice fakeout from where you think he’s considering mercy instead of method, but the scene is 99% the same.

      I love Books 4 and 5 — Dance is about equal with Storm for me. I think this season has also been fantastic.

      This has been one of the most literally faithful and character/thematically faithful adaptations I’ve ever seen of the one of the most unadaptable things I’ve ever seen. Even this supposed season of massive changes is mostly cuts and a couple of admittedly illogical but intriguing changes.

      Take a look at those minute counts for everyone… every second matters in this show. This adaptation is HARD and while D&D aren’t perfect, the fact that this show is watchable is an accomplishment — what they’ve made of it is an immense accomplishment.

        Quote  Reply

    81. Deesensfan:
      Sometimes, I read these comments, and im like WTF? lol!
      its probably cause I usually only read the unsullied post, and this one sometimes.

      I love the show so much. This seasons has NOT been boring by any means
      – Mance Rayder dies.
      – Jon Snow becomes LC and is really good at it.
      – Sansa returns to winterfell
      – Arya is becoming powerful
      – Dany’s weaknesses are showing more, but her dragons seem to be coming back into play

      I think, that’s a lot of shit. People need to stop complaining man. If you don’t like the show, stop watching.

      The show is NOT the books. Its based on the books. Geez!

      I hope the ratings go up next week because I want GOT to make history!

      It sounds like you like to enjoy things. I would suggest staying away from comment threads.

        Quote  Reply

    82. I am going to say it, I think GOT has reached its peak. And that’s not because of book deviations or leaks, I just think the show seems to be progressively declining in quality and audiences will start tiring quickly. The four episodes of S5 haven’t been all that great, not terrible by any means but certainly not up to the calibre they should be.

      It’s not going to drop off and die though, it’ll still have a solid fanbase supporting the show until Stannis sits on the Iron Throne in the last episode 😉

        Quote  Reply

    83. I do think a lot of people forget that D&D have never been anything but superfans of ASOIAF. The show is a labor of love for them to adapt one of their favorite book series, not a medium to say “fuck you George!” Yes, some of their adaptation choices are questionable, but they are running out of written material and running toward the end. There are things that are off to be about season five but it’s still a great show and one of the best adaptations ever.

      That said, I’ll wait and see until the show is done and the book is done to judge it as an adaptation.

        Quote  Reply

    84. Alan,

      Thank you! This is exactly what people should realize. Yes, there are flaws but nobody would have adapted this “unadaptable” series better than D&D because no one who writes and produces in Hollywood is such a hardcore fan of the books.

      I love the show. Sometimes things are questionable or badly edited or cheesy or there’s a scene I really wanted to see from the books. It’s still a great show and I enjoy it. That’s all it should be!

        Quote  Reply

    85. Alan:

      4. I can only assume you are upset with how transparent R+L=J is when you say “nakedly spill the beans to the audience.” Eh, I can not bring myself to care. I bet most watchers wouldn’t figure it out if a bunch of clickbait articles hadn’t come out.

      Actually I think Cersei’s plot this year is an even better demonstration of this effect (hence my choice of the word “naked”). Literally every Unsullied review I read for E4 noted how it was clear that Cersei’s machinations with the Sparrows was going to backfire on her. The book is a bit different as the number of characters can be much greater, and thus Cersei was able to spin a much more complicated web of intrigue. While I am sure all readers felt that it was going to come crashing down at some point, how and why was far from clear. That made the High Sparrow’s “No” much more powerful.

      The amount of foreshadowing for the Red Wedding, for example, seemed appropriate on TV – just enough that when it happened, you have this feeling of “I should have seen that coming”. Lately, it seems to me that the foreshadowing has gotten a lot heavier, and everyone can see it coming. I am not sure if this is deliberate or just coincidence, but since it seems to be happening in multiple places at once, I suspect the former. Perhaps as the audience grows and becomes more and more disconnected from hardcore fans, the directors feel a need to lay the hints on somewhat thicker? This is certainly understandable, even if it can make fans feel a bit spoon-fed.

      “This has been one of the most literally faithful and character/thematically faithful adaptations I’ve ever seen of the one of the most unadaptable things I’ve ever seen. ”

      Up until S4E10, I would have agreed with you fully. This season’s fidelity to the books is greatly diminished compared to the last.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Chad Brick,

      Are you seriously stating that the Cersei of the show is less subtle than the Cersei of the novels? Cersei of the novels is a single dimensional villain who does nothing right. Nothing. Her pov is a never-ending litany of paranoid, unintelligent ramblings and poison. There is zero suspense about how her negotiations with the High Septon or with anyone will work out, as every single thing she does goes wrong. She’s sleeping with a spy. Her small council is full of idiots, and her admiral runs off with her navy. She single-handedly alienates the Iron Bank. On top of that, she’s an abusive mother to Tommen. This is one of the things I hate about the last two novels. They take a villain, and turn her into something even a kiddie show might find too predictable, too flat.

      The show Cersei is at least remotely human, and at least the show doesn’t pile mistake upon mistake for her. The Iron Bank mess started last season, for one, and was not a result of Cersei’s behavior. That takes some blame off her. She at least tries to negotiate with the bank, and kills numerous birds by sending Mace to do so. She’s not sleeping with a spy. Her admiral will not run off with her navy. She is not abusive to Tommen. Her paranoia has some basis when it comes to Myrcella in both show and novels, but in the show, it has a more solid basis, which humanizes her: Ellaria and the Sand Snakes are planning to dismember her daughter.

      At any rate, you can accuse the show of being unsubtle, but Cersei is not a good example.

        Quote  Reply

    87. Chad Brick: Actually I think Cersei’s plot this year is an even better demonstration of this effect (hence my choice of the word “naked”). Literally every Unsullied review I read for E4 noted how it was clear that Cersei’s machinations with the Sparrows was going to backfire on her. The book is a bit different as the number of characters can be much greater, and thus Cersei was able to spin a much more complicated web of intrigue. While I am sure all readers felt that it was going to come crashing down at some point, how and why was far from clear. That made the High Sparrow’s “No” much more powerful.

      The amount of foreshadowing for the Red Wedding, for example, seemed appropriate on TV – just enough that when it happened, you have this feeling of “I should have seen that coming”. Lately, it seems to me that the foreshadowing has gotten a lot heavier, and everyone can see it coming. I am not sure if this is deliberate or just coincidence, but since it seems to be happening in multiple places at once, I suspect the former. Perhaps as the audience grows and becomes more and more disconnected from hardcore fans, the directors feel a need to lay the hints on somewhat thicker? This is certainly understandable, even if it can make fans feel a bit spoon-fed.

      “This has been one of the most literally faithful and character/thematically faithful adaptations I’ve ever seen of the one of the most unadaptable things I’ve ever seen. ”

      Up until S4E10, I would have agreed with you fully. This season’s fidelity to the books is greatly diminished compared to the last.

      A couple of things to consider:

      1) It would have been impractical to not make changes to this season. There’s too much extra plot in Martin’s story at this point. No one would ever have expanding the number of storylines 2x. Many people consider it a huge problem in the books (I do not) but it’s honestly untenable in the show. They effectively cut 7-9 storylines and kept about the same amount. Once you accept that we weren’t getting 2 hour episodes or 20 episodes …. it’s a necessary step.

      And once you account for that, the choices are still pretty good.

      2) As for the Cersei comment, I would just say … sometimes I would assume best intent and sometimes poor execution. Judging how much is too transparent versus too opaque is incredibly difficult even in the editing phrase; it’s really a tough skill in the writing phase. Martin is VERY, very good at this, but he also has thousands of pages to hide things in. As someone who has done some screenwriting … sometimes you just screw up.

      3) What I don’t understand about 99% of the criticisms of the show is that people seem incapable of saying “I really wish that they said Ed, Fetch me a block. I was hoping to hear it and it kind of killed the scene for me.” Instead, it’s “They cut this one thing, now the show is unwatchable and D&D sucks and even though I’ve been saying this for weeks and still watching I’m going to call them hacks and say it ruined everything.”

      Maybe it did, but if so, I would say that you’re not really cut out to watch adaptations again. Look at most of them — 95%+ aren’t even as close as GoT STILL is.

        Quote  Reply

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