Final two Game of Thrones episodes of the season titles and synopses revealed!

HBO has officially released the information concerning the last two episodes of this season, confirming the title of episode nine and revealing the title of episode ten. We also now have the official synopses of both episodes as well!

Episode 9 of this season is titled, as previously reported, “The Dance of Dragons” and will air on Sunday, June 7th. It will  be written by David Benioff & D.B. Weiss and directed by David Nutter.

We’ll tuck the rest beneath a cut as the info does contain spoilers!

 Synopsis:  Stannis (Stephen Dillane) confronts a troubling decision. Jon (Kit Harington) returns to The Wall. Mace (Roger Ashton-Griffiths) visits the Iron Bank. Arya (Maisie Williams) encounters someone from her past. Dany (Emilia Clarke) reluctantly oversees a traditional celebration of athleticism.

The finale of season five, airing on Sunday, June 14th, will be titled, “Mother’s Mercy.” The finale is also written by Benioff & Weiss and directed by Nutter.

Synopsis: Stannis marches. Dany is surrounded by strangers. Cersei (Lena Headey) seeks forgiveness. Jon is challenged.

 

Sue the Fury
Susan Miller, Editor in Chief of WatchersOnTheWall.com

422 Comments

  1. Well that’s exciting ! What can it refer to? Cersei? Dany’s relationship with her dragons? Selyse? I suppose we’ve got to wait and see but I like the title!

    “Jon is challenged”, does it have something to do with Jon’s mother or something? Since we know lots of hints about that have been revealed..

  2. Mother´s mercy?

    What the hell?

    – Could mean Dany frying the Harpy´s with Drogon-

    and thats all that comes to mind since i do not belive we will see LSH. :-/

  3. Gd75:
    Well that’s exciting ! What can it refer to? Cersei? Daenerys? Selyse? I suppose we’ve got to wait and see but I like the title!

    “Jon is challenged”, does it have something to do with Jon’s mother or something? Since we know lots of hints about that have been revealed..

    It is primarily a reference to Cersei, I would think, since the High Sparrow talked about how people seeking forgiveness may find the Mother’s mercy.

  4. So much for Dany setting sail for Westeros in the finale. Dothraki Sea it is! I guess this means she will destroy Meereen with a Khalassar at her back, while flying on Drogon next season.
  5. Obviously it relates to Cersei. The High Sparrow told her that if someone confesses their crimes, they will be subjected to the Mother’s Mercy — which entails a punishment that fits the crime, so to speak.

  6. MOthers Mercy

    i can think of only two people

    Dany and LSH ..maybe selyse

    Dothraki is happening stannis survives episode 9 jon is challenged
    and Cersei in Kl

    and if LSH (i dont think so )do appear

    for sure this episode is going to break the internet

  7. So Jon will be in every remaining episode.

    Is it safe to assume he gets shanked in episode 10? I thought they wouldn’t do that in the last episode because they’d never be able to hide whether or not Kit is filming for season 6… which would kinda be a spoiler in itself.
  8. The Loon,

    The meaning was already set up in “The Gift.” The Mother’s Mercy is what one receives if they confess; if Cersei confesses, for example, which matches her part in the synopsis perfectly.

    Speaking of the synopses. They are surprisingly revealing:

    So, Stannis will (of course) survive Ramsay’s attack in the Battle of Ice, and march towards Winterfell. And Dany will encounter the Dothraki. And Jon will die.
  9. Gd75,

    Your guesses are great, and I’m assuming you are unsullied and have not read the books. I would be very cautious as those who have read the books may inadvertently spoil what the titles really mean (not that I or they obviously know for sure). I would just be careful. But I really like those guesses!!

  10. Mother’s Mercy is such an awesome name. I think it’s very ironic, since pope Francis the mediaeval edition just told Cersei that sinners that repent are welcome in the mother’s mercy, and we know what’s coming.
    If that applies to Selyse somehow, I’ll go crazy.

  11. Almasy,

    Yes – but as with all the episode titles, there’s always a double/triple/quadruple meaning. They’re fucking with us book wankers man.

  12. So Dany

    will be in Meereen in S6? Meh.

    Maybe we will see even Battle of Meereen next season?

  13. About the surrounded by strangers:

    I think that Dany won’t be in the Dothraki Sea but in the ruins of Valyria where she will be facing the past of House Targaryen as it was set up in Episode 5.
    The Dothraki have gotten precious little namedrops this season (aside from Jorah talking about a dothraki Bloodrider)

    So maybe the strangers are the stonemen?

  14. Love it. Hoping for a Bolton bloodbath with the “Stannis marches” scenes.

    For those unclear, as was just stated by High Sparrow in 507, the 510 title is a KL/Cersei plot reference, although knowing the creators it may indeed have more than one meaning.

    What will the 5th plotline for 510 be? I’ve noticed that (usually) the synopses reference 4 major plot lines but include a 5th.

  15. everyone seems to think that

    for the watch is going to happen this season. It is a big thing, I thought that they would make the finale episode jon related. Or maybe its actually really going to happen early next season?
  16. Selyse will beg for Stannis’ forgiveness for allowing Shireen to burn (she’ll die anyway)
    Cersei – will beg for forgiveness for her own sins to save Tommen (Tommen will die anyway).
    Dany – will forgive Jorah (and he’ll die anyway too)
    Jon will die…but not die because he’ll have his mother’s protection spell on him that will result in a lightning bolt scar on his forehead.
  17. flipthetruck,

    That’s hella interesting. I would be very excited if your guess is actually true.
    Anyway, if Dany is going anywhere but Meereen, it will still get better.. 🙂

  18. mau:
    So Dany

    will be in Meereen in S6? Meh.

    Maybe we will see even Battle of Meereen next season?

    What did you expect?

    That Dany and Jorah and Tyrion would each ride a Dragon straight to Westeros??? 😀

    And no, Battle of Mereen probably is not happening. Dany I predict Dany won’t land in Westeros until mid to late season 6. But she will leave Mereen early, she’s probably going through Volantis.

  19. glad they added “reluctantly” to the dany overseeing the so called athleticism

  20. taim:

    everyone seems to think that for the watch is going to happen this season. It is a big thing, I thought that they would make the finale episode jon related. Or maybe its actually really going to happen early next season?

    Spoiler tags, man!

    And why the heck do you think it would not happen in episode 10? Did you not read the synopsis?
  21. Bott,

    Most people I know have no clue about that sort of stuff. They don’t read any GoT fan sites, don’t actively search the web for news. The knowledge about Kit filming would only mean something to us who are on the lookout, but majority of fans are casual, I think.

  22. mau,

    i dont know how anyone thought that dany will leave for westeros in episode 10 ..

    with what army exactly and dont forget she still has to settle matters in westeros its not going to be all burn and leaving

    and in order to dany reach westeros the other storylines need to get to their point like cersei having trial and tyrell and lannister war and dorne coming and now Greyjoys attcking..

    that said Dany season 6 will be her season and not so slow pacing like it was in the past two seasons …it will be more fast paced than season 3

  23. Gd75:
    Lars,

    That is what I thought at first, but we know GOT’s titles to have multiple meanings, don’t we ?

    The meaning can be misinterpreted by fans, though. Everybody was so certain “The Gift” had to do with the land below the Wall (called “The Gift” in the books) or with Arya giving somebody “the gift of mercy.” Neither happened in that episode. Instead, all it meant was that Tyrion was Dany’s “gift” from Jorah.

    “Mother’s Mercy” almost certainly refers to

    The Walk of Shame.

    As for a certain lady, she of the heart of stone, I’m 99.9% certain she’s not going to show up on this show at all. Not in Episode 10, not in Season 6, not ever. D&D have pretty much outright said they have zero interest in that particular storyline.

    Really, think about it. Changing the book line of “Jamie Lannister sends his regards” to the show line of “The Lannisters send their regards” is pretty much a big hint that D&D have cut out that storyline completely.

  24. SPOILERY SPECULATION

    In episode nine,

    Stannis will die during Ramsay’s ambush. Melisandre will make the move to burn Shireen. Selyse will finally show affection for her daughter and plead for Mel to spare Shireen. She won’t; Shireen burns and Stannis rises again. Ramsay will retreat back to Winterfell believing his task accomplished and expecting Stannis’s army to retreat without a king to follow.

    In the finale, Selyse will forgive Mel. However, Stannis won’t and he’ll banish Mel back to the wall. He’ll then order word to be sent out confirming his death so the Boltons will be unaware of the impending siege.

  25. If I didn’t know any better, I would say that LSH was showing up. But, I’ve given up on that a long time ago.

  26. I was not expecting that for Episode 10. Nice continuation of season finale parent-child titles: “Mhysa”, “The Children” and now “Mother’s Mercy”.

  27. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Really? I thought automatically Arya.

    Dothraki journey for Dany!

    They really adapted quite a lot from Dance and Feast. I’m surprised.

  28. I don’t see how leaving Jon

    on the cliffhanger FTW would work. Don’t they usually start prepping for the next season right away. How long would it be before it was common information that kit Harrington was working on season 6. Doesn’t that leave the cliffhanger, well not a cliffhanger. I thought it would of been beat to leave that cliffhanger after episode 9 then get whatever happens to Jon in episode 10. But alas, it doesn’t seem that this is what will happen, my guess is it will come as the cliffhanger, oh well
  29. Maybe there is another mother except Cersei, Dany and the divinity…

    Like Lady Stoneheart?
  30. Did you hear the Detroit Zoo named a litter of warthogs after Game of Thrones characters?

    THAT is how you know you’ve made it in the pop culture world, my friends.

  31. Does anyone think it’s possible that Stannis or perhaps Davos will

    stop Shireen from burning just before the flames reach her

    at which point

    Selyse collapses or is thrown to the ground when Stannis declares that she will die for this “troubling decision.”
  32. sati,

    It doesn’t even remotely hint at that.

    It’s the exact words the High Sparrow used in “The Gift” for what the Faith will do when Cersei confesses her crimes; a walk of atonement.
  33. Kyle,

    Yeah!…I hope they do something quite substantial to solidify the Davos-Shireen connection. That would make my day.

  34. Well, Selyse is seen wailing on the snowy ground in a preview, so it’s possible that she, at the last minute (and too late) will beg for mercy from Mel in regards to Shireen.

    As for Jon,

    I agree that it will be spoilery for next season if they leave it as a cliffhanger and show him filming, but also for EW covers and pre-season interviews, etc. Not sure they can make that a cliffhanger successfully. I’m hoping Mel will come to the rescue here.

    What would be really cool? If Mel uses Shireen to ‘save’ Stannis, but invokes the name of Azor Ahi at the same time Jon is being ‘challanged’ at the Wall, and she immediately knows that she’s made a big mistake in throwing her support in for Stannis.

  35. Speculation !

    “Stannis Marches” to defeat? huhuhu. i think ramsay will be killed, stannis dies or gets captured (pink letter cliffhanger). roose survives and either retreats to moat cailin or the twins (frey setup for s6). likely stannis gets flayed first and left dead at winterfell early next season.

    Dany is surrounded by strangers. by the soh at first, drogon then comes down from the sky deus ex machina style and then spreads the Mother’s Mercy dracarys over the entire Daznak’s pit. flies off to the Great Grass Sea or maybe even the Mother of Mountains where Dany will see more strangers, a dothraki khalassar or 2 or 3.

    Cersei (Lena Headey) seeks forgiveness. clearly the WoS. and then mother’s mercy by being rescued by ser RS frankenMountain. cleganebowl setup.

    Jon is challenged by NW men. most likely scenario is FTW, after JS receives the pink letter.

    *** Meryn fookin’ Trant is so dead in Episode 9. XD

  36. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I’m happy that Danny

    isn’t going to Westeros at the end of this season. why? Because if she goes now, it’s annoying when she has nothing to do next season and I think that Danny getting a Kallasar is important for het story, and isn’t it amazing for the viewers if they know that the Dothraki is back?

    Bott,
    Maybe

    FTW is happening at the beginning of the episode and a certain scene that we will expect will happen with Mel will happen at the end of the season.

    mau,

    She

    won’t be in Mereen, she will be in the Dothraki Sea. Maybe one episode in Mereen next year, maybe, we don’t know what happens in WoW. I think that we can asume that the battle of Mereen will be in the beginning of next season (If it’s in the show maybe cut) and Danny with the dothraki. And that danny will set foot in Westeros around episode 6×07-6×10 next season.

    WalkerWhite,

    Have you read the books? If not stop reading. Spoiler next.

    I think you’re right about Selyse being burned and maybe that Tommen will die, but Jorah will survive. Rembember, he has the role of Jon C from the books, he will survive at least till he set foot on Westeros.

    And would be amazing, Jon get stabbed. Harry wakes up “ginny I had the strangest dream ever, I dreamt that I was in another fantasy world, where Magic make sense and I – What the hell, what are you doing here Ygritte”

  37. sati,

    I know I won’t convince you. When you are inevitably disappointed, please don’t rage at D&D for “trolling” us. They aren’t trolling. The title is a direct reference to a concept just introduced last episode.

  38. Tormund’s Woman,

    Yeah, I expect some version of it, although I’m skeptical of a classic WotW or Blackwater type of battle. Rather, I have a feeling the outcome of the conflict will rely heavily on all of the loose ends (Brienne/Pod, Sansa/Theon, straggling underground Northern network etc.) engaging in some sort of sabotage.
  39. LADY STONEHEART CONFIRMED! LADY STONEHEART CONFIRMED! MOTHER MERCILESS IS COMING! I LIKE BEING DISAPPOINTED! WOO!
  40. After “Mhysa” for season 3, I find that title quite repetitive to be honest…

    Winter” had so much strenght.

  41. sati:
    If this is not Stoneheart, this is the worst trolling ever

    It’s not. Are you not seeing the obvious? Did you miss what the High Sparrow said in the latest episode?

  42. Anybody who is expecting LSH in episode 10 is only going to set themselves up for disappointment. Just fair warning.

  43. Arkash,

    I always felt like ‘Winter’ should be used late in Season 6 or even season 7. I’m glad that they’re not using it so early.

  44. Shireen will be saved if

    Sansa and Theon escapes to Stannis camp. As the son of a king, Theon’s blood is all Mel needs for her sacrifice
  45. I’d think Stannis banishes Melisandre back to the Wall in episode 9. She arrives in episode 10 just as FTW happens. Last scene is Jon being resurrected.
  46. Some behind the scenes stuff shows Missandei in the Pit with Dany. How is she going to survive what’s coming? 🙁
  47. sati,

    How the hell do you get ‘merciless’ from the title ‘mercy’? They are fucking antonyms!

  48. whew, glad i was able to update and cover my

    comment

    in spoiler tags. sorry folks, mea culpa. xD

  49. What I love most about the E10 title is how no one predicted it! 😀

    The Mother showing mercy to ungrateful b**ch Cersei; Drogon’s mom showing mercy to the Dothraki?; Selyse and some sort of mercy to someone?
    Also, with all these spoilers about Jon, I will bet that Ghost will come and save him. It’s been set up and it will be a nice symmetry with Drogon saving his mom.
    Does Stannis march to … death? Something tells me, yes….
  50. Instructions on how to use spoiler coding are at the top of every single comments section, if you don’t know how.

  51. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    You’re right, it’s a ridiculous connection. These words are in no way connected. Especially when paired up with word “Mother”. Sorry, my mistake!

  52. I actually think In episode 9 Stannis will say no to burning Shireen, then Mel and Selyse will go behind his back and start an accidental fire burning Shireen in her tent. In episode 10 Stannis will banish them then march on Winterfell and be attacked by Ramsay, we wont see the outcome. This will all be at the start of the episode and we will get a pink letter at the end. Maybe it wont all go down like that, but I think the Shireen burning will.
  53. Mother’s Mercy–as always, the title refers to several incidents.

    Dany as Mother of Dragons make some merciful move.

    Selyse is probably also part of the title, but perhaps in an ironic move–she has Shireen burned and is shown ‘mercy’ for that action in a non merciful way.

    Cersei is also clearly a mother.

    3 choices for Mother’s Mercy. Absolutely no LSH. That ship sailed, sunk, bobbed back up to the surface, was torpedoed, launched into an iceberg and sunk again, with the iceberg toppling over onto it.

  54. sati,

    You would have had a better point had you looked in the appendix of AFFC and seen that

    she actually is referred to as ‘Mother Mercy’. LS Confirmed! Get Hype!
  55. These sound so awesome. I hope HBO promotes the hell out of it even if they have to give away some money shots, I’d only to remind the “Rape of Thrones” people what they’re missing. Would be nice to get those ratings end in a high note.

  56. Do you guys think Sansa/Theon will be in episode 9? I’m just assuming they’ll get something in episode 10, but I’m not convinced only two more episodes will do much for the Winterfell characters?

  57. Episode 9 sounds great. Episode 10 though, that sounds like ending on a lot of cliffhangers and Dany not making the clean break from Essos that I really hoped for.

  58. Mister Stoneheart,

    And Euron was cut too, and then he wasn’t.

    I think she’s coming. Freys return in season 6.

    D&D like to save characters until they are absolutely necessary.

  59. *Sigh*

    These synopsises make me think Stannis will sacrifice Shireen. Please don’t Stanny, just don’t.

  60. I think the title “Mother’s Mercy” will refer to Cersei’s atonement, but while we’re on the topic of motherhood, does anyone else think we’re going to have a pregnant Sansa by the end of the season?

  61. sati,

    God I hope so, that’s exactly what I want to happen. I want my Theon-Stannis scenes. If the escape happens, do you think it could possibly be the finale scene of episode 9? Despite it being the Daznak’s episode.
  62. Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Mister Stoneheart,

    And Euron was cut too, and then he wasn’t. I think she’s coming. Freys return in season 6. D&D like to save characters until they are absolutely necessary.

    I just can’t be let down (again) so I have to tell myself it’s cut. Like a tall glass of chardonnay, it eases the pain.

    Will be an exciting finale, at any rate.

  63. Sorry I couldn’t get the spoiler code to work so unsullied beware

    If Jon is gonna get shanked they could avoid the off-season spoilers by having Melisandre get sent back to the wall as part of Stannis’s ‘troubling decision’ so she can resurrect him in the final scene, maybe even drop a hint about king’s blood if we’re getting crazy.

    Not sure how they’re gonna coordinate Stannis, Ramsay, Roose and the underground network of the north as Lion of the Night puts its but some people are gonna die, and my moneys sadly on Pod in the cross fire a la Pip last season, though I’m praying for him to make it to the next brothel at least. Not sure which big players are gonna get caught up in it or if we’ll have the battle in the snow this season, maybe a set up for early next season instead.

  64. Moonlight:
    while we’re on the topic of motherhood, does anyone else think we’re going to have a pregnant Sansa by the end of the season?

    I have brought this thought up to some of my friends as well, I think it’s very possible she gets pregnant. And now that I put that idea in the context of “Mother’s Mercy” I wonder if she might make a decision to not keep the baby if that does come to pass.

  65. Hoyti Von Totiy: Challenge is

    Knowing the show’s penchant for changing key lines, we’ll probably get

    “We’re stabbing you because we defend the Wall and you are wrong and stuff” rather than “For the Watch!”,

    and everyone who complains about the substitution will be accused of being a frothing-at-the-mouth book purist 😉

  66. I believe they have filmed things that they will not air until next Season, especially concerning the North.

  67. The Rat Kook,

    I think the final scene of ep.9 is definitely Dany flying, but if Stannis survives this season I think he definitely meets Sansa and Theon in finale, hopefully after Brienne comes to her senses and sees he can protect Sansa and she cannot off him
  68. I’d bet top money they change For The Watch. Don’t even take into account the fact Harington would likely be potted filming in less than a week for season 6. Although true don’t even take that into account. There is another more important reason I can’t see the book cliffhanger happening in the series. Harington is in the HBO bracket of the cast that makes the most money, which means HBO views him as integral to series on and off screen. I see no scenario at all where they’d allow an is he or isn’t he dead cliffhanger. That would take Harington out of the Season 6 promos and promotional appearances they do. He is always an important piece of interviews, magazine shoots, etc. He cannot do that if they want a true cliffhanger. How would that work? Kit is your character really dead? Oh gee I don’t know you’ll have to tune in to find out. You can’t do that in every interview.

    I have no idea what they’ll do but I will only believe an is he dead or not cliffhanger when I see it. Until then, I just cannot get on board that it will be something they do.

  69. Selyse and Shireen fits right there with this title.It’s actually a really horryfying thought.Something with Dany and her dragons,and what about Sansa?She was raped and what if she’s pregnant……oh nevermind.
  70. I’m not thrilled about the episode being called “Mother’s Mercy”, but at least it’s not spoilery. Calling it “Winter” would take all the punch out of the finale scene when (hopefully) Varys says “Winter has come”.

    I suspect the first episode of season six could be called Winter instead. Or maybe “Ironborn” or “Kingsmoot” or something *gets giddy*

  71. Jesus, some of you never learn, right? Time to move on and accept the fact that particular character was cut and will never show up.

  72. I’d bet top money they change For The Watch. Don’t even take into account the fact Harington would likely be spotted filming in less than a week for season 6. Although true don’t even take that into account. There is another more important reason I can’t see the book cliffhanger happening in the series. Harington is in the HBO bracket of the cast that makes the most money, which means HBO views him as integral to series on and off screen. I see no scenario at all where they’d allow an is he or isn’t he dead cliffhanger. That would take Harington out of the Season 6 promos and promotional appearances they do. He is always an important piece of interviews, magazine shoots, etc. He cannot do that if they want a true cliffhanger. How would that work? Kit is your character really dead? Oh gee I don’t know you’ll have to tune in to find out. You can’t do that in every interview.

    I have no idea what they’ll do but I will only believe an is he dead or not cliffhanger when I see it. Until then, I just cannot get on board that it will be something they do.

  73. Moonlight:
    I think the title “Mother’s Mercy” will refer to Cersei’s atonement, but while we’re on the topic of motherhood, does anyone else think we’re going to have a pregnant Sansa by the end of the season?

    Oooh…. such interesting possibilities from that for later seasons. Thought-provoking.

  74. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Oh yeah I understand that’s the bigger scene for most people. I’m just wondering if the episode will follow this season’s common formula of giving the finale scene to a plot not mentioned in the synopsis. Aside from the first episodes, it keeps happening!
  75. Morgoth,

    Why is it so bad to keep hoping to see your favorite character, hm? But hey, people laughed at those who waited for Euron too.

  76. These titles usually have multiple meanings. Of course some people will think this is a reference to

    LSH in addition to Cersei’s plot outcome and other things. Especially since “Mother Mercy” is one of her nicknames.

    I still don’t expect it, but it’s not unreasonable to think of this as trolling. There’s a dozen other things they could have called it if the title was meant to refer to Cersei’s outcome, like Penance or something.

  77. Renly’s Peach,

    Just think, if we get Stoneheart, Euron, and Return of The Hound: This Time it’s Personal all in the same season… all those people who said season five was a sign that the show had passed its prime will be so embarrassed.
  78. Buricon,

    I think it would be quite poetic in a way, if she becomes pregnant with a bastard’s baby, given her indifference towards Jon at the beginning. Moon Tea I ask for thee!

    I don’t want it to happen though, she’s too young (sure by Westerosi standards she’s not) but no, just no.

  79. Mother’s Mercy – I guess that’s again a title that refers to multiple story arcs:

    1. Cersei – receives the mother’s mercy from the faith
    2. Dany – she is Mhysa, “mother”, after all
    3. Stannis – Selyse may not have mercy for her child and sacrifice her
    4. Arya – Mercy? Or do we know the final confrontation happens in an earlier ep for sure?
  80. WalkerWhite,

    LMFAO! (and probably mostly accurate) 😉

    Not ready to lose

    Jorah. But at least I’ve had him since S1E1. What will be interesting are the storylines they DON’T mention.

    Not sure how they can leave the cliffhanger with FTW but if they leave it hanging all of S6 that would be amazing (much as I’ve grown fond of Jon). Someone better kill Olly.

  81. Stash Brannigan:
    I don’t see how leaving Jon on the cliffhanger FTW would work.

    I’ve seen a lot of people make this argument, but that just doesn’t square with how TV production works. Most viewers don’t pay attention to the show’s production details, and even if they did, the show still gets the initial shock, etc.

    After all the talk about the title being “Winter” (which I always thought was a bit redundant given that the pilot was called “Winter is Coming”), we get a bit of a swerve.

    So clearly the Walk of Shame is in episode 10, not episode 9 like a lot of us were assuming. That’s interesting information, in that it seems to leave the Cersei without a whole lot to do over the next two episodes. Basically just her going stir-crazy.
  82. Shaz:
    Buricon,

    I think it would be quite poetic in a way, if she becomes pregnant with a bastard’s baby, given her indifference towards Jon at the beginning. Moon Tea I ask for thee!

    I don’t want it to happen though, she’s too young (sure by Westerosi standards she’s not) but no, just no.

    I took the confirmation that it has been happening “every night” in this past week’s episode as a potential hint that it may come to pass. I don’t think they would note that unless they wanted to do something with it.

    Book/Show Speculation/Spoiler

    I also take the fact that nearly every scene with Daario and Dany has taken in Dany’s room/bed to be a confirmation that the book scene with the berries at the end of ADWD IS a miscarriage and Daario is the father. May mean we will get a similar scene as well.

    Hope the spoiler code works, first time trying to use it.

  83. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Meh, I think its time we get another White Walker themed ending. Maybe have them finally start marching towards the Wall after they revive that huge mess of corpses in Hardhome. I’m not up for another Dany themed final scene.
  84. The Rat Kook,

    I dunno about “passing its prime,” but this season so far has probably been the worst, so.. I’ve made peace with the fact the more they stray away from the books, the worse it gets. It’s fine.

  85. lore,

    There will be FTW(way too many obvious hints) and he will be stabbed to death(for the shock value),but I can imagine that he’ll open eyes when Mel will try to ressurect her Azor Ahai Reborn,after rumours about death of Stannis the Mannis.D&D already went beyond ADWD in some aspects,even they said they won’t do that.Or he’ll warg into Ghost.It won’t just end with his stabbing.There will be hint,that he’ll make it through somehow.

    This or Dany will be the finale scene of this season.Maybe Sam with Gillym,but former are more likely.

  86. dee,

    From various filming spoilers at the synopsis, it seems fairly clear that Trant dies in episode 9.

    Unrelatedly, regarding Winterfell:

    This goes unmentioned in either synopsis, but with the news that the Walk of Shame is in episode 10, rather than episode 9, I’m going to guess that the Sansa/Theon/Brienne escape happens in episode 9. This sets the stage for Stannis to march for whatever the final confrontation will be (with Sansa in Stannis’ camp, the Boltons will be forced to march out to meet him), and allows for some drama out of Brienne confronting Stannis, which has been pretty clearly foreshadowed.
  87. Fantastic title for the finale, though I do believe it is an intentional troll as an afterthought for B&W. I am glad to see that most of the main points of AFfC and ADwD are in these episode and I hope they do not make Martin’s mistake and keep a resolution to the

    big battle (Battle of Fire obviously won’t exist in the series)

    for next season. For those saying that normally one storyline is ignored in the synopsis I dare to say it is Dorne. I assume some resolution will come to that and hopefully negate some of the awful taste of several Dorne scenes (specifically the horrible choreography of the battle and the introduction of the SS. I actually liked the Doran/Myrcella scenes and felt the Tyene/Bronn scene was the first SS scene that did not feel awkard).

  88. Renly’s Peach,

    While I agree that this has been the weakest season, I would say AFFC/ADWD were the two weakest books, by a pretty large margin. I think if they handled the arming of the Faith better and had they stuck to the Queenmaker plot in Dorne, the season would have been better, but it still would have been the weakest.

  89. Koempel,

    I didn’t even think their first scene was that bad. Not up to scratch, but not as bad as all the criticisms of it beforehand, from the people who’d watched the 4 leaked episodes, made it out to be.

    Basically I think it all boiled down to that fight scene (and the story immediately surrounding it). If they’d just watched it back and thought about it, rather than rushing it out the door like they must have done, so much ill would have been undone.

    The number of people who take the Dorne plot seriously this year could have been increased by several factors if the scenes in that episode were different.

  90. celeste: er AFFC’s appendix:

    LADY STONEHEART, a hooded woman, sometimes called MOTHER MERCY, THE SILENT SISTER, and THE HANGWOMAN

    Holy shit. I remembered it as

    ‘Mother Merciless’ too. But it’s a near-as-damn-it match!

    Either they are fucking with the book readers longing for Stoneheart by this point, or she really could be in.

  91. My random guesses in no particular order…

    Davos saves Shireen from being burned and takes her from Stannis. Melisandre leaves and heads to the Wall. Selyse…I don’t particularly care what happens to her. Sansa uses Chekov’s corkscrew and kills Ramsay. Then, she and Theon escape thru the tunnels into the waiting arms of Brienne and Pod. All are captured by Stannis. Roose and Stannis are still alive at the end of the season (not sure why or how). Jon returns to the Wall having lost many men of the NW. He is stabbed by Olly and Edd. Mel is there and resurrects him. Dany and Drogon meet the Dothraki. Varys kills Pycelle, Kevan and Olenna.
  92. Spoiler coding is easy and fun for the whole family! 3 easy steps!

    1. Type the word spoiler with square brackets around it, no spaces.
    2. Type yer shit.
    3. Type the word /spoiler with square brackets around it again, the only difference is the / in front of the word spoiler. No spaces!

    Victory!

  93. Koempel,

    As someone who also thought the choreography on the Dorne fight was clumsy, I’m starting to think I should grade it more on a curve. Apparently, they only had a week to get everything in the Water Gardens and I’m sure because of the historic value of the site, they were extremely limited to what angles they could shoot and where they could set up grip equipment. Not an excuse but just maybe I’m not as irritated by it (I work in the film industry so I’m probably a little more sympathetic to production woes).

  94. Speculation on what might happen in Episode 9 & 10 based on book spoilers:

    Arya crosses a name off her list and kills Trant in Episode 9. That much I’m pretty certain of.

    Episode 8 & 9 will probably bring back Kevan Lannister and will feature Cersei pleading for her freedom. We’ll probably see a scene with Cersei and Qyburn where they discuss “Ser Robert Strong” (aka FrankenMountain).

    Trant’s death leaves an empty spot in the Kingsguard (who knows what happened to that KG who escorted Myrcella to Dorne back in S2?) Cersei finds out about this via the raven-vine in E10 and immediately asks Kevan to promote Ser Robert Strong to the Kingsguard in order to be her champion in her trial (which will set up Robert Strong vs. Lancel in S6, and result in Lancel’s death).

    This way, Arya’s storyline is indirectly tied into the KL plot.

  95. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I dunno about that. I think this season had a lot of potential handed to them on a silver platter and they seem to have thrown it away. AFFC/ADWD are generally viewed as weak because of all the fluff, but they’re not boring books at all. All the worst elements of this season don’t really have much to do with the books.

    mau,

    I know that’s, like.. your opinion.. but jesus christ.
    What an insult to seasons 2 and 3.

  96. mau,

    You’re entitled to your opinion. I just don’t think the writing has been as strong this season. Season 3 had the tremendous Jaime arc. The Brotherhood. The incredible middle episodes. It was more than the Red Wedding. And season 2, while not being my favorite season, did have really good KL-Stannis-Arya arcs. Qarth and beyond the Wall scenes rival the early Dorne ones as worst in the series, though.

  97. Renly’s Peach:

    mau,

    I know that’s, like.. your opinion.. but jesus christ.
    What an insult to seasons 2 and 3.

    Why?

    We should wait for E8, 9 and 10, but except RW I don’t think that anyhing from S2 and 3 can compete with S5.

  98. Buricon,

    That’s certainly possible. I also wonder if the need to protect her child could also be what finally pushes her to kill Ramsay.

  99. Tyrion Pimpslap:
    mau,

    You’re entitled to your opinion. I just don’t think the writing has been as strong this season. Season 3 had the tremendous Jaime arc. The Brotherhood. The incredible middle episodes. It was more than the Red Wedding. And season 2, while not being my favorite season, did havereally good KL-Stannis-Arya arcs. Qarth and beyond the Wall scenes rival the early Dorne ones as worst in the series, though.

    Jon S5 > Jon S2 and 3

    Stannis S5 > Stannis S 2 and 3

    Cersei S5> Cersei S2 and 3

    Tyrion S2 and 3 > Tyrion S5

    Sansa S5> Sansa S2 and 3

    Arya S2 and 3 > Arya S5

    Theon S5 > Theon S2 and 3

    Dany S3=S5 > Dany S2

    Jaime S3 > Jaime S5 > Jaime S2

    ————————————————–

    I really don’t get how S5 is the worst.

    S4 is the strongest.

  100. Renly’s Peach,

    Most fans would have considered a more faithful adaptation of those books to be a complete bore. You can say that the books aren’t bad, I have grown to like them, but they would make for 2 boring seasons, if adapted completely faithfully.

  101. Josh L.,

    Speaking of trials:

    What is the show going to do about Margaery and Loras’ trial? In the books, Margaery can’t demand a trial by combat because Loras isn’t there. But in the show, Loras is there, and is allegedly a great knight, even though the show hasn’t portrayed him as anything other than a colourful fop since season 3. Seeing as Cersei will demand trial by combat, shouldn’t Loras get the same?
  102. Why would Daeny’s arc end on a cliffhanger this season?

    The way I’m picturing it, the Dothraki find her and Drogon and recognise Daeny as their new leader in awe of her commanding a dragon. Daenerys goes all Fire and Blood and leads her new Khalasar to pillage Mereen. By the end of the episode, she leaves the burning city with a new army and a concerned Tyrion.

    Or something among those lines. But I really hope there won’t be any big cliffhangers (for any storyline, for that matter).

  103. Shaz,

    I don’t think she’d get an abortion, simply because it would be really anti-climatic if they had her get pregnant only to never have the child.

  104. mau,

    I don’t think you’re remembering 2 and 3 that well, if all you can come up with is the Red Wedding. Jaime’s arc, BWB, the Blackwater, Astapor, Harrenhal, Tyrion as Hand, Tyrion’s wedding, Theon in Winterfell, Davos actually mattering, etc. It’s no contest.

    And I’ll take every season of Sansa over what they’ve done to her in 5, thanks.

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    But that’s the thing. It’s not really about being faithful or not. Of course Damphair and Oakheart and Brienne walking around for a season would have been boring. It’s the choices they’ve decided to do which have nothing to do with the books. Dorne? Barristan dying? The Faith uprising and the Marg/Loras arrests? Sansa getting raped in Winterfell? Come on now, all of these could have been handled 10 times better and have nothing to do with being faithful to the books or not.

    TheJippaJappa,

    Why would the Dothraki call Dany their leader? She’s never been their leader and they parted in pretty hostile terms.
  105. Luka Nieto:
    mau,

    It strays more from the books, ergo it’s worst. That’s the general idea.

    I just don’t get it. Only weak storyline is Dorne this season, everything else is great or good.

  106. Pigeon,

    Easy and fun for the whole family! Smells like lemons! Easy to wash!
    AND THAT’S NOT ALL! Now 3 easy steps on a price of one!

  107. mau,

    No way is Theon in season 5 better than Theon in season 2. I left him off of the reasons that made season 2 better than season 5, which was a mind cramp, as he was arguably the MVP of that season, along with Tyrion. This is all subjective. You like this season a lot, and that’s okay.

  108. Renly’s Peach:
    mau,

    I don’t think you’re remembering 2 and 3 that well, if all you can come up with is the Red Wedding. Jaime’s arc, BWB, the Blackwater, Astapor, Harrenhal, Tyrion as Hand, Tyrion’s wedding, Theon in Winterfell, Davos actually mattering, etc. It’s no contest.

    And I’ll take every season of Sansa over what they’ve done to her in 5, thanks.

    Yes I remeber.

    But

    Theon in WF S5 >Theon in WF S2

    Hardhome or WF can be better than the Blackwater

    Daznak will be better than Astapor

    Tyrion as Hand was great, and Cersei as ruler is great also.

    And there is FTW and WoS.

    Ramsey and Sansa is far more interesting than Sansa and Tyrion.

  109. Moonlight,

    I guess it’s possible but if they were planning it next season I wouldn’t be surprised if they reconsidered. They threw a Hail Mary on that idea and its clearly done more harm than good, and it’s not like Sanda needs a reason to kill Ramsay.

  110. mau,

    You’re throwing things at me to compare that haven’t even happened yet. I dunno why you’re so adamantly defending this season as being the best, but you do you.

  111. TheJippaJappa,

    Call the number on your screen NOW, and get free advice on how to delete your own post! 😀 No more slaving away with sub-par products! *flails arms*

  112. mau: I just don’t get it. Only weak storyline is Dorne this season, everything else is great or good.

    And truth be told, the only scene that really let me down was the Water Gardens scene in Episode 6. I’ve loved the Ellaria/Doran scene, all the Jaime/Bronn stuff, both scenes in Episode 7, etc.

    And everything else has been top notch this year. I get it by now that most book fans are contractually obligated to lose their sh** at every change. But, for me, the show’s seldom been better.

  113. Ravyn,

    I had read that they only had a week to shoot it, but they had a long time to prepare for it. It wasn’t simply mediocre choreography (like Barristan’s demise, though I thought Grey Worm’s part was quite good), it was borderline unwatchable. I probably do underestimate the limitations with respect to filming equipment, but such a scene in an acclaimed series should not happen. After a second viewing my opinion of ‘Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken’ was more positive (I skipped the battle scene). All in all, I think this season had been very good aside from episode 6. They can still save the Dorne plot if done well and if connected to the main plot (Tyene/Bronn scene is a start, but more Doran is essential).

    The Rat Kook,

    What irked me the most was the over-the-top torture of the captain. Even Ramsay would not go to that much trouble. I mean the SS must have been digging for quite some time.

    Anyway, looking forward to the last three episodes. If done correctly, and I believe they will be, this season will easily be on par with former seasons. I have thoroughly enjoyed Jonathan Pryce, the inclusion of Olenna, Sansa in Winterfell, the Wall and Tyrion’s fast road to Mereen. Most of the set-ups are finished, it is time to witness some beefy GoT moments.

  114. Renly’s Peach:
    mau,

    You’re throwing things at me to compare that haven’t even happened yet. I dunno why you’re so adamantly defending this season as being the best, but you do you.

    I don’t think this season is the best, but is better than S2 and S3.

    Daznak is better than Astapor in the books, there is no way it won’t be better in the show.

    And about Hardhome and WF I said maybe. Those moments will be big this season. I don’t now how big just yet.

  115. mau,

    Theon had an actual story arc in season 2. From Pyke to Winterfell, it was spectacular. He is a tertiary character to Sansa and Ramsay this season. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

  116. Sean C.,

    No clue about Margaery and Loras. Maybe their story lines are parked until next season.

    Any guesses as to Hizdahr’s fate?

  117. mau,

    You need to cover your spoilers. I’m singling you out because I’m having to add coding to like…ALL of your posts.

  118. Tyrion Pimpslap:
    mau,

    Theon had an actual story arc in season 2. From Pyke to Winterfell, it was spectacular. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

    Yes, he was traveling, but his storyline was stronger in ADWD than ACOK. I think majority will agree.

  119. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Dear god I hope the last three episodes can change that.

    There had better be a godswood scene, and it had better be this own. No Sansa at all. Ok maybe some Bran but that’s for a different purpose.

  120. Season 5 is by far the best of all with maybe the exception of S1. The quality of the writing has been excellent and very well balanced. Stannis & Bronn two of the most boring characters got surprisingly solid field to excell. Jon is better than ever and I could go on. Not to mention Cersei, Sansa, Maisie, Roose Bolton, Olenna. In my opinion HS has been proved a better new main character that Oberyn “killing” all the scenes he was in with the most subtle of ways. It always felt that Oberyn’s part was too easy being sexy, provocative and full of anger. In the technical department S5 has no competition. As I understand it some people will not forgive that the season hasn’t provided for THOSE fight scenes or battles that they phantasise about. But the season is still on…

  121. Koempel,

    Thank you! I mean, seriously? Buried to his neck PLUS a scorpion PLUS a barrel PLUS a whipping PLUS a spear through the face. Talk about overkill!

  122. mariamb,

    I would expect all the trials to be next season. That’s how it is in the books. I’m just saying that the show’s changes have completely altered the book’s scenario, unless they just go all the way in neutering Loras.

    Regarding Hizdahr, he’s either a villain (with absolutely no setup at this point) or he’s what he appears to be and he dies at Daznak’s Pit.

  123. I am very curious as to who, if anyone, will make it out of

    Daznak’s Pit in Ep9. From what I have seen, Missandei, Daario, Jorah, and Tyrion are all in there with Dany at some point.
  124. mau,

    That also has plot complications, though, since I think the omens in the book point to Margaery losing.
  125. dothrakian raven,

    It al depends whether the last three episodes will be as good as I expect, but it could be a great season indeed. The staging of scenes is far more beautiful than in prior seasons (I suppose the budget is really helping here). A lot of scenes can simply be paused, printed out and framed on a wall and wouldn’t look out of place. Jonathan Pryce has been spectacular and his character has been as intriguing as anyone (I personally find him scarier than Ramsay). Adding Sansa to the Winterfell plot has done wonders for several stories (if the ending (theme wise) is what I have in mind). This effectively connects the Sansa, Bolton, Stannis, Jon and Brienne storylines. Maybe I am also liking this season more because of the rising uncertainty. I for one wouldn’t mind waiting for the books until after GoT finishes (will need a reread anyway before TWoW).

  126. When people condemn the quality of a season using as an argument the fact that Theon is not as badass as in S2 is a clear indicator as to what low standards and criteria prevail upon judging among certain fans.

  127. Koempel,

    I think we get a little spoiled with what Neil Marshall pulled off on a TV budget. Then again, my all time favorite fight scene was Arya and The Hounds western saloon smack down in S4. That was just flat out perfection from set up to them riding off with horse and chickens.

  128. Season 4 > Season 3 > Season 1 > Season 2 > Season 5 so far. I’m hoping (and thinking) that the final 3 episodes will boost season 5 up a bit. Episode 7 was amazing, and a big improvement over episode 6, which might have been the worst episode the show has ever done.

  129. dothrakian raven,

    Nobody said that. Alfie Allen’s acting is good. Great, we get that.
    Theon’s journey to Pyke, takeover of Winterfell, arrogance, and ultimate downfall are just much juicer than Reek’s storyline — which is still better in the books. They’ve taken out a lot of the focus that was placed on Reek in the books (praying by the weirwood, hearing voices, Lady Dustin, Abel and the washerwomen).

  130. mau,

    Even then, Dorne has only had one truly unequivocally weak scene: the fight scene in “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken.” Everything else has been either great (the setup with Jaime and Cersei; the setup with Doran and Ellaria; the travel and arrival with Bronn and the fight scene in the sand; in prison with Bronn and the Sand Snakes, finally acting like humans and sisters and real characters) or just plain “good enough” or acceptable (The Sand Snakes’ introduction, which was for some reason cut in editing from what we can see in promotional pictures in which the three of them had more lines to each other; Myrcella and Trystane, which was fine; and Jaime’s and Myrcella’s scene last episode, which was predictable and going through the motions but well executed anyway.)

  131. Renly’s Peach:
    dothrakian raven,

    Nobody said that. Alfie Allen’s acting is good. Great, we get that.
    Theon’s journey to Pyke, takeover of Winterfell, arrogance, and ultimate downfall are just much juicer than Reek’s storyline — which is still better in the books. They’ve taken out a lot of the focus that was placed on Reek in the books (praying by the weirwood, hearing voices, Lady Dustin, Abel and the washerwomen).

    So, in the end everything is about the differencies between the books and the show.

    That was expected.

  132. Tyrion Pimpslap:
    sati,

    How the hell do you get ‘merciless’ from the title ‘mercy’? They are fucking antonyms!

    Tyrion Pimpslap with the Stannis-esque grammar slam! yaaaassss

  133. mau,

    No, I would think the difference is that Theon’s story this season is not nearly as much about Theon as it was in season 2, and that’s because of omissions and other changes.

  134. The last 3 episodes of this season have the potential to wipe the floor with any other season

  135. mau,

    Uh, I’m only telling you what they’ve omitted, making Reek’s storyline much more lame. Take that as you will.

  136. Renly’s Peach,

    You don’t give me an argument as to how Theon’s arc deteriorates the quality of the season. All I get is your disappointment that Theon didn’t get the whisper from a tree. This does not make an argument about how the season is the worse of all it is just something you don’t like and it does not consist a fact.

  137. This is A LOT to cram into a few episodes, get hype!! 🙂

    So.. Jon uses dragonglass and escapes hardhome to return to CB to FTW. For some reason (many are plausible) Mel is there.
    Dany gets her inner Targ on but doesn’t leave Essos, fine.
    Arya gets her revenge on Trant, epic.
    Cersei WOS I’m the most excited about!! Lena is going to nail this! 🙂
    Can’t wait to see her indignant and psycho next episode bwahaha!

    LSH is not involved.. sorry…

    Yes, seriously perplexed about the cliffhanger aspect. But either they will do the build up to FTW and not actually do it (you just sense imminent trouble for Jon but no stabbing), or they could do it, and bring him back immediately to avoid cliffhanger, or just leave it on the cliff and assume it will leak when filming prep starts and then everyone will be happy Jon is still alive but curious as to how?

  138. Sean C.:
    mau,

    No, I would think the difference is that Theon’s story this season is not nearly as much about Theon as it was in season 2, and that’s because of omissions and other changes.

    But there were omissions in S2 as well. They cut so many characters from WF in S2.

  139. dothrakian raven,

    I have to concur, although I do find it difficult to order seasons in terms of preference. Season 5 so far has been a slower paced season giving integral characters room to breathe. I was reluctact about the WF storyline for example, but feel that the conclusion could be quite explosive if excuted right. I will reserve full judgement until the last 3 eps have aired, but honestly so far bar maybe 1 or 2 dud moments, it’s been great.

  140. Ravyn,

    My pipedream would be Marshall directing all fight scenes. Would have made the fight between the Mountain and the Viper as epic as the ending. As pure fighting scenes go the Hound has been blessed with Blackwater, Beric, Polliver&co and Brienne. All great fights. For some reason I always enjoy the Jon/Styr fight, though I love BrienneVSHound the most in its gritty glory. Looking forward to whatever mano-a-mano is coming this season (are there any candidates come to think of it?).

  141. Theon has more lines and a clearer arc in season 2 than in season 5 (so far.) The problem with Reek is that he’s almost always silent, so his arc in ADWD is much more internal, and narration cannot be translated to TV. I’m sure we’ll get a satisfying version of his arc by the end of the season, but admittedly it’s a difficult thing to adapt. Just as I’m sure we’ll get the weirwood moment, or something equivalent that reminds Reek who he is. It couldn’t happen before because of obvious reasons (the Winterfell plot had a slow start this season because we got introduced to it through Sansa.)

  142. Jaime’s girl,

    Yes, it is a lot to cover in 3 episodes.

    I think that Jon will be resurrected in the finale. With all of the death and misery that this show doles out, another death may not make waves. However, his resurrection would be exciting for Sullied and Unsullied alike. Of course, it will need to be really dramatic…maybe he is on the traditional NW funeral pyre and Mel runs over, says “the words” and, ta da, he is risen. (And I’m sure that there are better ideas than that.)
  143. mariamb:
    My random guesses in no particular order…

    Damn this is a strong set of guesses, I hope you are right! (except Edd, don’t do it buddy, stay loyal!)
    This would put Brienne in an interesting position as well seeing as she stated clearly this season she wants to kill Stannis as revenge for Renly’s death.
    And where is Asha/Yara btw???

  144. dothrakian raven,

    Reek was the primary character in Winterfell. He was more in focus and more interesting things happened around him. In the show he’s playing second banana fiddle to Sansa, and even backtracked some progress in the last episode by turning her in. He’s barely a character this season and has done nothing interesting so far.
    There, your argument.

  145. Luka Nieto,

    The few moments that Theon had in order to transmit this truncated inwardness “killed” it. His arc smoothly merged with Sansa’s and fitted to the Bolton’s in WF. This is not the problem. The problem is that in comparison with the badass and pompous Theon in S2 this one does not satisfy the fans who only care about macho exhibitionism. For them it is that and only that it matters… So yes S5 is the worse of all in Ep 7.

  146. Renly’s Peach,

    That’s because a character such as Reek doesn’t lend himself particularly well to a visual medium such as television, at least not as the focal point of a story arc. One more reason why they absolutely had to make changes to the Winterfell plot.

  147. Sean C.:
    mau,

    But those cuts didn’t affect Theon’s narrative centrality.

    I’m not sure. cuts did “affect” WF plot. It was much simpler than in the books.

  148. Tibatonk:
    Renly’s Peach,

    That’s because a character such as Reek doesn’t lend himself particularly well to a visual medium such as television, at least not as the focal point of a story arc. One more reason why they absolutely had to change the Winterfell plot.

    Yes, i agree. In visual medium Reek can’t be center of that plot. It is not posible.

  149. dothrakian raven,

    It was mau who ranked characters’ comparative storylines in each of the seasons. I responded to him saying Theon’s season 5 storyline has been better than his season 2 one. I did not use this one example as to why I think season 5 has been the weakest.

  150. Renly’s Peach,

    Look, I do not know what Reek did in the books in Winterfell. All I know is that Reek in the show is a broken down man with no will of his own. He has accepted his fate as servant and toy to Ramsay. All of a sudden he is faced with someone from his past for which he still feels ashamed of and this does not make him very happy. When his tormentor starts testing his loyalty he is torn apart as Sansa’s fate reminds him of his own. He rejects Sansa’s plea because he believes that she has no chance with the Boltons. It is a matter of survival for him. Now all this has been depicted with the best possible way. The cast did an excellent work, the set was wonderful, the direction in tune with the drama, the music impeccable. Again your “argument” is your frustration that the show didn’t imitate the book. Again this is not an argument. It is your disappointment and your disappointment cannot constitute a fact for why this season is worse than the others.

  151. IMDB just updated Episode. 10 –

    Benjen, Lollys, Night’s King and Yara are gone, Balon, Daario and Missandei remain. Take with a liberal grain of salt.
  152. dothrakian raven:
    Now all this has been depicted with the best possible way.

    And that’s where people disagree. It’s also a matter of where the focus is in the story, and how the affects it.

    You’re perfectly entitled to your opinion, but you can’t reason away people’s disagreements on this point as illegitimate or somehow just nitpicking.

  153. mariamb,

    That would make sense. I was waiting last week when Mel mentioned the leech deaths if she would drop him as well but no dice. Guess that will be upcoming.
    With the new casting info I am now excited to potentially see those characters! I had given up hope after knowing they were cut from S5.

  154. I wonder when the Soundtrack titles (and samples) will be released, as they may offer us a hint of spoilers.

  155. mau,

    maybe the greyhound show up and the battle of mermen starts setting up while she’s gone? I see it ending like the books. A bit of a cliffhanger where she just lands in front of the Kalasaar. At least that’s how I would do it.
  156. Mother’s Mercy- I think it will have to do with

    1-Obv Cersei (her walk) 2- Possibly Selyse giving Shereen to the Lord of the Light 3- Dany and her dragons, we semi-know what is coming to them (SoH) in the Pits. CANNOT WAIT for these last 2 episodes!
  157. I’m not really trying to jump into the Reek conversation but I would like to mention
    -Alfie Allen has done a great job with the material he has been given.
    -We knew there would be changes since on TV we are not privy to Theon’s inner monologue.
    -There were big changes made, yes, but I am hoping in the end his arc remains the same thematically.
    -Maybe this is just me but I’m not entirely convinced he turned Sansa in to betray her, but possibly to keep Ramsay’s trust. If Theon knew this would not work, he’s helping Sansa by doing that, and retaining access to her, rather than getting caught helping her in a non-starter escape plan and then get the two of them in trouble with Ramsay. Orrrr maybe Theon’s just a headcase! 😛

  158. mau,

    Yes, because Reek for the most part is only a passive surveyor of events that unfold around him, not somebody who actively shapes the plot.

    Meaning the first half or two thirds of the season’s Winterfell arc would actually have to focus on secondary and tertiary characters such as the Boltons, Jeyne Poole, and some minor Northern lords. Not something particularly interesting to anybody except those who already know what’s going to happen later on. Which would be pretty terrible storytelling, indeed.

  159. Sean C.,

    Well I am aware of your objections regarding Sansa and WF. Other commentators and myself have tried to argue with you about it. This is something else. Condemning a whole season just because of a fight scene in Dorne or Arya cleaning floors etc, etc… these are not reasons that made this season the worse of all. These are just projected frustrations, dissapointment, bitterness and whatever else which do not amount to facts that can speak for the good, bad, mediocre quality of the season. I hope that this is clear.

  160. Koempel,

    Gwendoline Christie let it slip in an interview she had a HUGE fight scene with someone but I stopped reading to keep it a surprise.

  161. Ravyn:
    Koempel,

    Gwendoline Christie let it slip in an interview she had a HUGE fight scene with someone but I stopped reading to keep it a surprise.

    Oooh I hope that’s true! We haven’t seen much of Brienne (although I prefer her current inactivity to what happened in Feast) and I’d like her to get to fight this season! 🙂

  162. Dutch maester,

    It was, now we are getting a normal version of score on 17th and who knows if digital, usually released a week earlier is gonna be released sooner than that. Everything is released later this year – promo pics, score, titles, episode summaries, hell they don’t even release ‘previously on’ earlier anymore

  163. //My prediction//

    SPOILER

    Selyse will sacrifice Shireen for Stannis
    Stannis ,in turn, will execute Selyse and cast out Melisandre
    Because of the sacrifice, Stannis will win the battle of Winterfell
    Melisandre heads for Castle Black
    Jon returns and it’s ‘For the Watch’
    Melisandre resurrects Jon Snow

  164. Sean C.:
    dee,

    Unrelatedly, regarding Winterfell:

    I agree Trant should die in E9. If Arya appears in E10, it will be her facing the aftermath of doing such. Could her season end with her blinding? That was her best cliffhanger of AFFC/ADWD. I don’t feel that she has had enough “training” to leave tHoBaW this season. A few scenes with her being blind and I can imagine her being ready a few episodes into S6.
  165. Any possibility at all that as stated by somebody above,

    Jon is poked and on the pyre for a good burning and Mel doesn’t stop the fire, but makes it so that he emerges? Like a certain other character meant to parallel him?

    Stupid, I’m sure!

    And… Perhaps spoiler code would be executed properly more often if the instructions were at the point of posting and not the top of the post!

  166. So much to get through in 2 and a half episodes if the next is mainly Hardholme. Aside from the obvious moments people have mentioned there’s going to be time spent on Dany and Tyrion interracting, some resolution for the season to Dorne – do Jamie and Bronn get out? – maybe Sam/Gilly being sent on their way, some lead up scenes for Varys’ return or does he just pop up out of the blue.
  167. Very exciting news. I very much look forward to seeing these episodes.

    I personally do think Season 5 has surpassed Season 2 in quality, but mainly on the production level, rather than story. These last three episodes have the potential to be the best end to a season yet, and if 80% of my expectations are met it will be better than Season 3. If it’s over 90%, then I would say the second best.

    I think that in life generally we tend to have a romantic view of the past, and if we were to get served up past seasons as “new” again, we would rate things differently. I think given the quality of the source material for this season, and the challenges of adapting it, they have done a stellar job. Season 1 might be the best season, but it is by far the easiest book to adapt (having said that they were less experiences, so there are pros and cons).

  168. Mother mercy – cersei admits her crimes – does the walk of shame . Seleyse admits about burning shireen – stannis kills her . John gets no mercy – is stabbed several times Briene runs into the brother hood and lady catlin let’s her live – lsh is the best kept secret in television . Everyone loves the show mas hysteria all over the internet d
    N d look like geniuses

  169. Ravyn:

    I think we get a little spoiled with what Neil Marshall pulled off on a TV budget. Then again, my all time favorite fight scene was Arya and The Hounds western saloon smack down in S4. That was just flat out perfection from set up to them riding off with horse and chickens.

    Three absolutely best fight scenes the show has ever done are Hound/Beric in 3×05, Hound feat. Arya/Polliver feat. goons in 4×01 and Hound/Brienne in 4×10. They sure gave Hound all the best stuff, right?

    I didn’t include Marshall here because his 2 episodes are on a whole different level.

  170. “Mother’s Mercy” is certainly about Cersei. In the Faith of the Seven the Mother is prayed to for fertility or compassion, and is depicted as smiling with love, embodying the concept of… mercy.

  171. Mel has to leave Stannis in ep 8 to get back to Castle Black in time to help Jon. I hope Stannis sends Shireen away with Davos to somewhere safe and fights the Boltons without the benefit of any magic,
  172. Just to be clear on the LSH issue. If she were included, it would have been at the end of this season and never would have been any earlier. It is at this point in the books (the end of AFFC/ADWD) that she actually does something remotely relevant to a notable character. Killing random Freys simply isn’t important enough to have brought her back any earlier. So the people saying that the LSH hype should have died long ago are wrong. The time is right. Of course I’m still 95% sure she’s cut anyway, but that’s entirely due to Jaime and Brienne being on opposite sides of the continent and nothing to do with it being supposedly too late.

    Also a prediction… Daario will take over Barristans book role. He has already been shown to be overly suspicious of Hizdar and he’s already got troops directly under his command. I still would have preferred Barristan to live but I don’t think we’ll lose those chapters completely.

  173. Regarding the title of Episode 10…

    I never believed they’d include Lady Stoneheart, and I still don’t think they will. But that title… As pointed out by several posters, LS is called ‘Mother Mercy’, not ‘Mother Merciless’, in AFfC’s appendix. That must really be the most epic official trolling in recent memory. But then again, I wouldn’t put it past D&D. They always enjoyed trolling the cast members. Why not the audience?
  174. I don’t believe that Jon’s

    FTW moment

    will happen this season. That’s not what challenge I think signifies.

  175. Just as “The Gift” referred to multiple thing, I would expect both Mother’s Mercy and Dance with Dragons to refer to multiple things.

  176. dothrakian raven,

    Wow! Someone who knows the difference between an argument (a syllogism refuting alternatives and concluding what is most consistent with accepted facts) and simple contradiction or gainsaying (“It sucks!”).

    Michael Palin would tip his cap to you. As do I.

  177. KG:
    Did you hear the Detroit Zoo named a litter of warthogs after Game of Thrones characters?

    THAT is how you know you’ve made it in the pop culture world, my friends.

    Indeed 🙂 Very cute!

    Not exactly a GOT reference, but I saw San Andreas yesterday and nearly shrieked aloud when I realised the kid was Art Parkinson. From there it was nearly 2 hours of willing the Stark not to die.

    (He didn’t)
  178. Charles M,

    Yes it will. Why else have we had to endure

    all of the closeups of Olly looking conflicted?

    It’s happening.

    Cristina,

    ‘For The Watch’, aka: Jon’s assassination.
  179. Mr Fixit,

    But then there was one of the cast members who said that ep 10 will explodethe internet. I don’t remember who was it but I remember it was mentioned. Now there are many candidates for this blow but none stronger and far more explosive than a certain mother.

    As for Daario I think that he is behind the Harpies. In their last conversation he proposed to her. There is no doubt that he truly loves her. But he also knows that she would decline the idea of marrying him – as she actually did in the last ep. So the only way to win her totally would be to push her in the corner with a political unrest whose outcome Daario could pretty much control. Having agreed with the Harpies that they will not harm Dany he could direct their aggressiveness to the point of making Dany more insecure and therefore more vulnerable to his advice and influence. Without Selmy around and with the Unsullied in the defensive he can easily play his game. If he succeeds he can have both Mereen and Dany. Manipulative, risky and apropriate to the first version of the show’s Daario. But this of course is just a wild speculation based on the material that the show has provided until now. I have no idea as to Daario’s fate in the books.
  180. I got myself 2 free tickets (moments before they sold out) to watch Episodes 9 & 10 back-to-back at a big screen movie theatre. Can’t. Wait.

  181. Lars,

    They are not doing the FTW thingie to close the season, Kit has already been talking about season 6 and future filming, so it wouldn’t created a “is he/isn’t he” question.

  182. Wimsey,

    Thank you. I am not the only one here, that’s for sure. But it seems that one has to keep repeating it so we can reach a point of reasonable communication about the measure of things.

  183. dothrakian raven,

    Yeah, it was Podrick’s actor Daniel Portman. Every season so far, with a possible exception of the second, had internet-exploding-worthy moments, be it Ned’s Dead, Red Wedding, or Oberyn’s head implosion, to name the most shocking ones. Portman’s remark could mean anything.

    Jon Snow’s stabbity-stab-stab more than qualifies, wouldn’t you agree? Though, I must admit, that damn title is one huge mindfuck aimed at the Sullied. Never say never, I guess…
  184. Ravyn,

    Agreed on the awesomeness of 401 tavern scene. Season 4 is actually my fave. It’s just where it fell in the books. There were so many emotional twists. I think we need to be patient w season 5. D&D see it as a whole story and i agree. If it works out well in the end is the best measurement.

  185. ‘Get hype’ has now replaced ‘agency’ as the official most overused GoT related term.

  186. mariamb,

    I dont know, but keep in mind also that the actors do not see scrpits for scenes in which they do not participate. So, it would be some storyline in which his character appears that does this.

    Either that, or one of the crows got out of its cage and stole his lunch while he was reading that script. Or he had a small tantrum for no particular reason. Etc., etc.!

  187. The actor who played Beric Dondarrion was on the red carpet this year. I don’t know, I still believe in LSH
  188. So at this point we only need the soundtrack to be released, identify the song playing in the last moments of season 5 (by being called “mother’s mercy”) and conclude – as it is OBVIOUS – that this means LSH will open her eyes in the final moment.
    Like we did the last two years…
    aaand be disappointed again

    Also where’s the problem with a FTW cliffhanger – last year we learned that Charles Dance was filming for Season 5, although his character was already dead.
    Why shouldn’t there be scenes that include Jon’s body, which could explain Kit Harington being involved in shooting. Also literally (I hope I use the word in the right way) every book reader suspected that Mel is going to resurrect Jon (and still is as we’re still waiting for TWOW). Why should the Unsullied not be guessing the same with or without Kit shooting scenes.

    And there must be a Dany-focussed last scene as this is an odd numbered season. (this time crowdsurfing in the khalasar?!)

    Or maybe we get a postcredit scene with Jon opening his eyes, that nearly everybody will miss….
  189. Josh L.: The meaning can be misinterpreted by fans, though. Everybody was so certain “The Gift” had to do with the land below the Wall (called “The Gift” in the books) or with Arya giving somebody “the gift of mercy.” Neither happened in that episode. Instead, all it meant was that Tyrion was Dany’s “gift” from Jorah.

    That’s not *all* it meant – Littlefinger also mentioned giving a gift to Cersei (and then to Olenna). But, yeah, the two most obvious book meanings were completely missing.

  190. Pigeon: Get hype’ has now replaced ‘agency’ as the official most overused GoT related term.

    ‘Get hype’ has been around a LOT longer than ‘agency’ and it continually reappears whenever some fans convince themselves that certain characters will (re)appear, only to have Lucy pull the football away yet again… LOL

  191. Wimsey,

    Yes…I know that they only see the scripts for their character’s scenes.

    Maybe the scene(s) he references are Loras’ death. That’s why I wondered if he read the books. Finn is such a delightful loose cannon that we have to take everything he says with a grain of salt.
  192. Simeon,

    ‘Get hype’ is often used tongue-in-cheek; it’s not that bad. ‘Agency’, however, needs to die a screaming fiery death to set an example to all other words that get similar ideas. I’d personally burn it along with its bastard sibling ‘cliche’.

  193. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I could see it happening at beginning or mid next season. The challenge is

    pink letter or Sansa asking for help perhaps.

    End the season with some hope.

    Most likely you’re right though and it will be FTW.

  194. Mr Fixit: ‘Agency’, however, needs to die a screaming fiery death to set an example to all other words that get similar ideas. I’d personally burn it along with its bastard sibling ‘cliche’.

    You forgot the worst offender of all: “whitewashed.” 😉

  195. I want to join in on people’s musings about “Mother’s Mercy”…
    *LOADS OF BOOK SPOILERS*

    One has to wonder: what if the lack of Stoneheart at the end of season 4 wasn’t because D&D saw her as an unnecessary part of the story – as some people have argued – but because they knew they’d already be struggling for time in season five as it was. One only has to briefly consider the huge changes they’ve made to the story this season in order to understand how much of a struggle it must have been to adapt books 4/5. It might be that LSH is just like the recently-confirmed Euron Greyjoy; a character who many book readers are hoping to be a meaningful part of the story, but one who’d accomplished relatively little by the end of AFFC/ADWD – giving the show-runners an opportunity to delay his arrival until season six. That seems like a pretty smart move to me.

    Also, consider that the recent cast announcements seem to include Septon Meribald. This could suggest that the Riverlands are going to be important again. Also, if Jaime isn’t going to be killed off in Dorne this year – a theory many people subscribed to as the only possibility for Jaime once it became apparent LSH might not be in the story anymore – what will he be doing in season 6? Similarly, do people expect Brienne to die at the end of season 5, too? Seems unlikely; that would overload the episode and detract from “For The Watch”. So, with Brienne, Jaime and Septon Meribald all available at the same time, and the duration of the Hound’s absence now comfortably rounding out at one season, it’s actually looking like a really logical time to head back to the Riverlands.

    I always considered the decision to avoid LSH to be extremely un-D&D-like. Yes, there were those people who aren’t D&D who argued that LSH shouldn’t be in the story at all (books, too); that her inclusion was more of a shock moment than a meaningful development of the plot. But, ignoring people who aren’t D&D for a moment, this is D&D we’re talking about. And LSH is one hell of a shock moment.

    Or, yeah, the people who do the episode titles are fucking with us. That’s also possible.

  196. Don’t forget the short interview with Richard Madden (King in the North, Robb Stark) spoke of little detail about season 5, however, he did reveal he knew a major death. Might it be Barristan? I don’t think so.

    (Forgive me if spoiler isn’t working, I’ve tried using the tags but it doesn’t hide it – SPOILER BELOW)

    I would love for LSH to enter the story, but I too think the ship has sunk, and that grieves me. Her storyline brought little justice for the Starks, yet little justice was better than nothing. I definitely think it’s FTW. Though I do understand the situation with having it as a cliff hanger, people would report sightings within days. Might it be he’s resurrected at the end of the episode? http://www.winteriscoming.net/2015/03/03/richard-madden-promises-game-of-thrones-death
  197. sati:
    Morgoth,

    Why is it so bad to keep hoping to see your favorite character, hm? But hey, people laughed at those who waited for Euron too.

    Not that wanting a particular character to appear is “bad” per se, but the whining after the tenth episode ended and that character didn’t show up got stale after S3. On S4 it was already beating a dead horse.
    Now here we go again.

  198. Morgoth,

    The only part of the Lady Stoneheart whining that irked me was how some fans have so much shit to Lena in her Instagram page. She doesn’t even post anymore. That said, I wonder how many times Mixhelle Fairley has to say “no, that door is closed” before people believe her?

  199. Mr Fixit,

    Agency is a theoretical term that’s pretty common in literary criticism. It has its uses. Usually to talk about fem theory. Got overused bcuz of the outrage over Sansa. This too shall pass. But we digress.

  200. It doesn’t take much for the lights to be switched on, does it?

    There is a very obvious comparison between 3 characters. How often have you heard LF mention how much Sansa reminds him of her mother? Cast your minds back to Sansa in the crypts, tending to Lyanna’s tomb. (Take a look again.) Sansa in the latest episode, with the winter cloak and hood. You didn’t spot a nod of similarity? How about the look being associated with an unseen character in the show that so many wish included? (The same character causing all the jumping wildly at this season’s finale’s title.)
    She’s been there ever since she arrived back in Winterfell.
    Playing on words – Is Sansa taking heart from the stones around her? Is the villain of the piece trying to turn her heart to stone? Are we missing a scene, or have we been left to assume Sansa would pay respects at her mother’s tomb?

    So, is there need for D&D to bring a character onto the show to please fans? Why would they when the pieces are in place to be made use of already seen on the show?
    You never know, they may throw a curveball when you’ve already got fixed on a punt. (Yes, I know. It’s 2 different sports references.)
    Checkov’s Gun – it’s always a great tool to use. Most of the time, they’re forgotten until that moment when the gun goes….. Fuuuffftt. Misfire! Who said the gun was loaded in the first place?
    There is already a mother(-to-be) in Winterfell. She’s a former Frey, as we know. It’s one of those frenemy situations. Could Sansa be with child too? (Unless Ramsey fires blanks, of course.)
    Leave your options open. Allow for some D&D style plot-twisting.

    I hope for Sansa to go deeper into darker places. I’d much prefer her to take revenge for her family and for herself.

    I can see Roose riding out to face Stannis. It’d be a true Man to Man confrontation. All to win; all to lose. Who wouldn’t like that to happen? (Maybe that battle can be held over to next season?)
    What if Ramsey has escaped after a failed raiding mission, and so is left in charge of Winterfell. (Possibly wounded, to weaken him?) Ramsey sees the chance to eliminate his yet-to-be-born rival and…..
    What if Ramsey’s head ends up on a spike above the broken tower, with a beacon fire lit beneath, so all can see.
    Wishful thinking? Perhaps. It’d be a nice twist if Mother’s Mercy is delivered by that one Frey who seems to like that one Stark, in Winterfell.
  201. Charles M,

    What else it would be?Letting widlings go through the Wall?I don’t think so.Boltons could be that challange to his vows.Of course it will be in this season,because it has been foreshadowed way too many times.

  202. The Rat Kook: I always considered the decision to avoid LSH to be extremely un-D&D-like. Yes, there were those people who aren’t D&D who argued that LSH shouldn’t be in the story at all (books, too); that her inclusion was more of a shock moment than a meaningful development of the plot. But, ignoring people who aren’t D&D for a moment, this is D&D we’re talking about. And LSH is one hell of a shock moment.

    Those people always seem to ignore that LSH is critical to the Jaime/Brienne story arc. Jaime and Brienne are obviously two top-tier characters, so they cannot be just dropped out of the story, nor can D&D claim they are “heading to the same place” as GRRM unless the fundamentals of Jaime and Brienne’s personal stories stay the same. Therefore, assuming D&D are not including LSH they have to replace her role with respect to Jaime and Brienne anyway.

    Frankly, I hope she is in, and we have some significant Riverlands material in S6. There are just so many loose ends there and it seems like awful story-telling to leave them all dangling. Freys need to die, certainly. The casting call for Meribald (or Elder Brother in combination?) upped the chances of this. The title of E10 did so again. If LSH isn’t in, it certainly was an epic troll by D&D. To what end?

  203. I wonder if the show will spring

    Aegon/Trystane or more R+L=J

    in the last episode.
    LF’s gift to Olenna of “a handsome young man” appears on the surface to have been about Lancel but what he said about “I have other information of which she (Cersei) is unaware” is ambiguous. He could have just meant ‘I know Lancel has told the High Sparrow about what he knows about Cersei.’

    Or he could have meant information about the longer game, that there was someone with a better claim to the throne, Jon or Aegon.

    I don’t think the idea that Olenna then tells the HS about Lancel off screen works because when the HS talks about Lancel to Cersei a couple of scenes later he’s clearly describing Lancel as he was before he found peace; “A young man came to us not long ago. Broken in body and spirit.” The HS has known about Cersei’s issues since he first started dealing with her. Olenna has already made her point to the HS that there are other sinners around.

  204. The Rat Kook,

    How is Brienne “comfortably available”? Brienne was in the Riverlands in AFFC looking for Sansa. In the show, she’s found Sansa, and will probably be with her by the end of the season.
  205. LordDavos,

    Aegon is pretty much cut and I don’t blame D&D for that.Jorah replaced most likely JonCon,Dany will invade Westeros and they speed up her storyline,because they can’t spend another season in Meereen,as D&D said in newest interview.Dorne could be the ally for Dany when she’ll make it to Westeros.Trystane after all replaced Arianne as heir and we know their plans were to marry Arianne to Aegon.

    Since you’ve mentioned LF knowledge.I wondering about his look to Sansa, when she mentioned Rhaegar raped and kidnapped Lyanna.He knows something about it.

  206. Geralt of Rivia

    It makes sense that LF would have followed Lyanna’s story since he was at the Harrenhal tourney. He’s put two and two together. I also find it curious that they cast an actor as Trystane who looks alot like Jon/Kit. It seems deliberate.
  207. Need to take a step back here on the Stannis/Mellisandre/Shireen plot. They are not burning a young girl alive on an HBO show. Shireen lives. Mayble Melissandre and Selyse try to set up a burning then Davos saves her.

  208. LordDavos,

    LF is supposed to have a plan for every scenario and deep down I think he knows something and was able to fill those missing spots.I’m asking myself question:what would be the profit for him,if he knows it(could even reveal it).Marry Jon to Sansa is kinda weird.He wants North for himself,but Jon could well and truly be half Stark and half Targaryen,which makes him really powerful ally and in some cases threat.

    About Toby Sebastian as Trystane.Yeah it’s strange,because he’s practically younger version of Kit.Maybe I’m looking far too much in to this,but it could help the audience and even some characters namely Dany that Jon could well and truly be Rhaegar’s son.Jon looks nothing like a typical Targaryen,but it doesn’t mean he isn’t one.

  209. Chad Brick: The title of E10 did so again. If LSH isn’t in, it certainly was an epic troll by D&D. To what end?

    Yeah, sure. They must be giggling, that couple of rascals, after trolling the LSH fanboys for the third time. Only that LSH fanboys are the ones who troll themselves, for getting all hyped over nothing and looking for things that aren’t there.

  210. Geralt of Rivia

    I worry that Little ‘man with the plan’ finger is getting a bit ridiculous and unrealistic. No one can realistically control that many random events and have them pay off! The Joffrey death was a well-organised scheme but a lot of the time he seems to try different things and get lucky. Is he thinking that with Tywin gone, Tommen weak and illegitimate and TV show Mace an idiot, Stannis is the next most likely ruler but ultimately he thinks a Targ would have the best claim? Does he essentially want to be Tywin II – a powerful fixer rather than direct ruler but with strong ties to the ruler.
  211. Morgoth,

    Third time? What were the other two? And why is this one?

    But I agree: this is a case where people are so desperate to see a thing that they inagine it into everything: and then blame B&W for their imaginings.

    At any rate, LSH has been only barely relevant to the plot and quite irrelevant to the story so far. GRRM blew it here: we should not have seen her again until the end of Dragons. And, quite frankly, at this point I will be surprised if the ultimate firing of the LSH gun is much more than a squirt from a water pistol!

  212. LordDavos,

    Heh, Mace is a doofus in the books, too, as his mother frequently notes. He boasts more than blusters, but it is no more (or less) convincing. However, he has at least one very competent liegeman, who we might see next year.

    As for LF’s game, good luck with that! People have been arguing about it since Clash, and we are only closer to a resolution because at least two popular ideas are clearly false and a couple of others look increadingly implausible. My favorite idea seens incorrect: or at leadt GRRM should have tossed us some tangible clues by now. I am more stumped than a freshly felled tree!

  213. The Rat Kook,

    Actually, the cut was very B&W like. “Shock” is not their primary aim: story is. To this end, they have more than once delayed introducing characters relative to when they appear in the book: and only introduced them when they became relevant to story or at least plot. As the character in question still has not been important to the story (and has negligible effect on plot), we never should have expected to see the character before season 6.

  214. LordDavos: I also find it curious that they cast an actor as Trystane who looks alot like…It seems deliberate.

    The actor was definitely cast because of his looks.

  215. Not sure why everyone assumes Kit wouldn’t return for Season 6 even if he dies…Tywin was tots dead yet Dance returned for Season 5….as a corpse. So….
  216. Wimsey,

    For some reason, I think the actors have seen all 10 episodes. I don’t know if its via screeners or they go to a private cast/crew screening (that would be tough for 10 hours). But Maisie mentioned in her new Entertainment Weekly interview that she’s seen all 10 eps.

  217. Demonmonkey,

    It’s just one of those scenes they got just perfectly in every way. I’m not even mentioning the choreography of the action, but the build up to it, that long dialogue scene, Arya expressive eyes just taking it all in, then one of the best throw down lines ever:
    Polliver: “You fought for the king. Now you’re gonna die for some chickens?”
    The Hound: “Someone is.”

    And then it’s Go Time.

  218. Since Sean asked about the trials of Margaery and Loras, I figured I’d mention that there’s one shot of Margaery from the Season 5 trailer that we haven’t seen on the show yet:

    Margaery hugs Tommen while looking distressed. She appears to be in in one of her standard dresses, rather than the rags she was wearing in “The Gift”. So Marg at the very least will be getting out on bail in one of the remaining episodes.
  219. Wimsey,

    Of course.My mistake and thanks for the correction.

    The point still stands,Dorne/Targaryen alliance through marriage(this time Dany/Trystane) could be on the cards.It’s the most likely ally for her.I wouldn’t be suprised,if Hizdar will meet his end this or at the beginning of the next season.She’ll need an alliance,and what better way than marriage.

    Similar thing could happen down the road between Jon/Dany.Both Targaryens,it would cement his status as a Targaryen and no one would say a word about it and it will bring peace.As I’m looking at the things,and I want to know your opinion on this.Don’t you think,they’re setting them up not only to fight WW as a leaders,but to rule after together afterwards?It would be bittersweet victory,but I just can’t imagine White Walkers to emerge as victors.

  220. flipthetruck,

    No.

    I think Dany is going to land in Dorne. Don’t know why but I just have this feeling. Khal Jaqo (or whatever his name is) is not really a stranger to Dany but the Dornish are. Plus I think it’s time for D&D to reveal Dorne’s higher purpose because it cannot be these Sand Snakes.

  221. So with FtW, WoS and Dothraki pretty much confirmed for episode 10, I don’t think there is time for a big battle in that episode. And what about Varys, Kevan and Pycelle? It seems unlikely that they would postpone this scene to the next season.
  222. Chad Brick: If LSH isn’t in, it certainly was an epic troll by D&D. To what end?

    The guys love to troll! They do it all the time to people they work with. Consider this their best work yet.

  223. Having read what they say about episode 9

    I am now very worried about Shireen – unless the greyscale affords some sort of odd protection. I know it’s only a story but I have warmed to the character of Shireen. My only hope is that GRRM likes to surprise people – though I appreciate this season is a somewhat loose adaptation of his books – and that as we have been beaten over the head with foreshadowing of Shireen’s fate, that the story veers in a different direction to the obvious ones. I hope to heck we don’t get GoT variant on Jairus and his daughter. Looks like Dany will be dragon riding and hooking up with the Dothraki though that was hinted strongly by leaked photos last year.
  224. Geralt of Rivia,

    I think at the end of the season ( after dany leaves with drogon ) they’ll show hizdizar kissing that meereense prostitue on top of the pyramid than it’ll become very apparent who the harpy is. I’d love it if after dany wakes up in the dothraki fields , gets back on drogon and she flies back to the pyramid to find hizdar and the prositute and cooks them
    And eats them
    While the rest of the city looks in horror

  225. Geralt of Rivia,

    I thought Jon and dany would have a true born targayrion kid from the first book . I’m sticking to that I beleive . They’ll be king and queen – Tyrion will be the hand , and all three will be hidden targs and the three dragon riders , I just think Jaime is gonna kill tyrions dragon being forever renamed as the dragon slayer

  226. wyatt,

    The trailer shows tents in the snow burning which seem to belong to Stannis. Something battle-like is definitely happening there.

    Even in the books the Battle of Ice does not seem to be a large battle, it is speculated that Ramsay&co are being led into a trap on thin ice. I do not think such a moment warrants more than 10 minutes.

    Regarding the epilogue of ADwD

    we will have our answer soon enough if Kevan reappears. I fully believe that this scene will be in, not in the least part to answer unsullied where the fuck Varys went. I expect Kevan to arrive at the end of episode 8 or beginning of episode 9 if this scene is in.

    Similarly Doran will give his

    infamous speech to connect Dorne to the mainplot as there are stills of ES&SS bowing to him

    What I am clueless to is the what will be happening to Yara and Balon. With Euron being casted the Ironborn are not as useless as we thought. It will be interesting to see what happens with them and this could indeed feel stuffed if this is a reasonably big storyline.

  227. Koempel,

    Lots of good speculation.

    Don’t also forget that behind the scenes clips and interviews show that

    Jaime will be having a scene with Doran in the palace. They will share a meal or refreshment and have some straight talk. Also in attendance will be Ellaria, Hotah, Trystane and Myrcella. I presume this will be a more political scene where Doran will question Jaime’s motives for coming to Dorne. Alexander Siddig even mentions that Doran ‘likes the cut of his jib’. So I do think we have a good, meaty scene coming where the Dorne plotline will gain more relevance. I’m not sure if Doran will reveal exactly what his plans are with Jaime there, but I do think we will gain more understanding of his possible intent. And yep, there is a shot of Ellaria kneeling to the wheelchair-bound Doran, with the three SS also there looking subdued. My guess is that he’s told them more of his plans and Ellaria is apologising (by offering her bent knee) for having ever doubted him.

    I’m quite excited to see these upcoming scenes, although I realise that for other viewers there are far more exciting developments to anticipate.

  228. I think there the three heads of the dragon . Jon. Is azor ahai and dany is the princess who was promised . I just need clegange bowl
    And if the lsh happens this finale finally , I’ll be very pleased with it , I often supported the theory that she was best kept secret in television history and If it happens how i beleive it would go down than I’d prolly deeply change my Opionion of season 5. Right now threw the first 7 episodes I have season 5 as the worst season
    Next to season 2? Also . Without her what happens with Jaime and Briene ? I’ve been supporting the theory that she’ll be the best kept secret in all of television , and the last three finales mothers mercy the children and mhysa. Keeping fingers crossed . season 2 for me was the worst season but still a solid 7-10 – mostly cause black water was best episode they ever did , now maybe this season will be similar – we know the hard home stuff is supposed to
    Be and I quote this from day in the life ” the most ambitious scene got has ever done ” . By the end of the season as a whole I can maybe see it in my top 3 seasons but can’t imagine it surpassin season 4 and 3 but will see ftw – is poised to be one of the great cliffhangers of all time , especially with all the fan theories , I’m realy excited I think clearly these next 3 episodes will be the 3 best of the season but will that be enough for me to look at it as a whole as better than season 1,3,4 , quite the task , considering the source material. I’ve never been so excited for 3 episodes in all my life .

  229. Of the Night,

    Being overly suspicious of Hizdahr means Daario will take the late-ADWD role of Skahaz mo Kandaq, who convinces Barristan of Hizdahr’s guilt. Basically he already has that role.
  230. Sean C.,

    Yeah that’s the biggest problem with the theory. I meant she was available in the sense that she’s likely be alive, but I still can’t think of a bulletproof theory for why she would return south. Perhaps she starts taking Sansa south again, to protect her from the White Walkers which may or may not be a more apparent threat at this time. Maybe Sansa meets the Hound as a result, and splits off with him. Again, I can’t say why she’d go with him or Brienne would lose her, but the Hound and Sansa meeting up again at some point in the last two books is expected by quite a few people.

    Alternatively, maybe she deems Sansa safe at Winterfell after the Boltons are taken care of (maybe she leaves her with Stannis if he’s alive), and then returns south to carry on looking for Arya.

  231. Chad Brick,

    Completely agree.

    Wimsey,

    You may be right about their priorities, I didn’t mean to go all hate-mode on D&D with my last comment.

    Still, even with story as their main concern, I still think there are a lot of signs pointing towards the Riverlands returning, and good story reasons for doing it: Jaime and Brienne. Two massive characters who (largely) became so massive because of their time together, so it seems a good story arc to bring them together again.

    And LSH is a compelling way to do that.

    Also, here’s a completely separate point:

    Another reason why this might be the logical time for LSH is that it gives the viewers a modicum of hope after ‘For The Watch’. That would be a bleak ending to the series, and whilst I personally have no great issue with a series being as bleak as that, many people would, given the nature of the season so far (slow burn; lot of bleakness without pay-off).
  232. I really think LSH is happening.

    Daniel Portman said Ep 10 would “break the internet” – if something related to his storyline, LSH fits

    Mother’s mercy fits (and they have kept the title quiet for some time)

    It gives a purpose to Brienne and Pod’s story. And it makes sense to divert Brienne’s course from Sansa / Stannis (I don’t think she will rescue Sansa – that’s Theon’s job. And I don’t think (hope!) Stannis dies – which would be the outcome if they meet I think).

    It helps to set up the Northern storyline for next season (getting the story back on track with revenge for Red Wedding etc.)

    But then again, I’ve sat expecting it at the end of each of the last two seasons and been disappointed, so it’s probably going to happen a third time!

  233. The Rat Kook,

    I’m
    Imagining that there she would run into stoneheart where she’s at now
    Not
    In the riverlands , unless Theon tell Sansa about bran and rickon
    This upcoming episode and Sansa tells Briene this upcoming episode rickon is south . If lady stoneheart is in this season (super unlikely ) she’s north too , unless that Sansa sends Briene south in this episode ?Theon would have to tell her right away ? We do know they talk
    She tells him ” if I knew what he did to
    You
    I would do the same thing to you ” in the preview of hard home maybe she tells her he’s alive . But Theon would have to do it in very begging of episode to pull that off and if Sansa told
    Briene stannis was bearing down on them
    , would Briene not search for
    Brandon
    And rickon , cause she wants to kill stannis ????

  234. Luka Nieto,

    I was very careful to use the word “modicum” with regards to the sense of “hope” she brings to the story 😛

    The character’s tragic, but the full extent of that might not become clear until the next season.

  235. There’s so many possibilities but I got stoneheart as a 2-1 underdog . I’m
    Taking bets . Wager 50 silver stags and may the winner claim his hundred

  236. The boltons are at 8-1 and if bron fights areo hotah because not that tyene saved his life and he will try and kill Marcella and this fight will come
    Hotah is a heavy 140-1 favorite

  237. Luka Nieto,

    exactly

    darrio is shavepate and Jorah will be taking barristan becuase unlike tyrion he knows the place and politics there ..remember he stayed there for a long time last season

  238. How are people so sure FTW is not the end for

    Jon

    ?
    For me his whole arc in ADWD is similar to Cersei’s one in AFFC. Makes lots of mistakes without realizing what’s coming to them.
    FTW felt really realistic because it HAD to happen. He was blind not to see it coming. Ned all over again.

    If Mel brings him back it would break the finality of his death and the future ones too. I would love him to die and Mel saying he’s R+L just before so we have hope and then BAAAANNNNG. This is George RR Martin.

    LSH could happen but we will be spoilt by the previously on anyway if it happens….

    Would have loved to have a “Prince of Winterfell” title for an episode.

  239. dragonbringer,

    You may be right, but don’t discount Tyrion’s likely contributions, if only because he will be the sole main character in Meereen in “Mother’s Mercy”, aside from Jorah. Even then, Peter Dinklage is essentially the star of the show, so he won’t be relegated to witnessing the post-Daznak chaos (as he basically is in the books.)
  240. Apologies if this has already been mentioned but that was a too much to read but..

    Wouldn’t having Olly take part in FTW take away from the rather sinister scene when Varys’ little birds stab the hell out of Pycelle and Kevan? Use the child killer thing there where it will ahve more impact I say.
  241. TheTouchOfFrost,

    If Varys appears, I don’t think his little birds will be present.

    It was already a bit incongruous in the books, but having a dozen poor kids in the castle / palace would be even weirder in a visual medium, and kind of unnecessary. Varys can handle himself.

    And in what possible sense do totally unknown kids killing a tertiary character have a greater impact than a character we’ve come to know killing a major character?
  242. Luka Nieto,

    oh iam not saying he wont have any contributions …he will definitely help jorah and darrio …he can very well be the a part of jorah’s council
    it will make more sense to have jorah as head of the council and tyrion as a council member not the other way around

    but i would hate it if he alone takes the role of Barristan and start trying to clear everything…how will that be believable when dany have been trying for a long time without any success …what does he know about the politics in meereen (an argument used for dany concerning westeros)…because he is so wise he comes and solves every problems ..

  243. dragonbringer,

    Cover the more blatant spoilers, please.

    If the Meereen situation after Daznak’s Pit is remotely based on the books, Daenerys’ ruling council (which in this case will be composed of Jorah, Missandei, Grey Worm, Daario and Tyrion) will be managing a crumbling reign —they won’t magically solve everything, no matter if it’s Jorah or Tyrion who’s in charge. I’m pretty sure Tyrion will get to show his wits somehow, a crowning moment of awesome to cap the season off for Tyrion, maybe in the plot to dethrone Hizdahr if that makes the cut, but that still doesn’t mean the show will give us the idea that “Tyrion has just appeared and yet he has been able to fix everything that Dany fucked up.”
  244. Ross,

    I do not think that

    revenge for the Red Wedding ever was a track of the tale. Remember, the RW was written to eliminate Robb Stark: he is a secondary character in the books, and GRRM needed him out of the way in order to let the spotlights fall on the protagonists.

    But I do think that people are setting themselves up for big dissappointments. Season 6 needs to focus on wrapping up the Civil Wars of Westeros so that Season 7 can wrap up the still larger plot.

  245. Wimsey,

    I generally agree with that sentiment. That said, David Bradley is confirmed to come back for season six, and that probably means Walder Frey will get his comeuppance (whether the character we are discussing appears or not), just as the Boltons will get theirs between the end of season five and the beginning of season six. It’s not about “cosmic justice”, either, or fan service. It’s just where the story is heading organically, particularly with the Boltons.

  246. LordDavos,

    My favorite idea was that LF was actually an agent of the Others, and thus was working on destabilizing everything in order to reduce resistance. However, that was really a “tin foil hat” idea with almost zero evidence to support it. Really, working as an agent provacateur for any 3rd party would do: other people suggested that he was working for a still-living Aegon or for some Essos country.

    I think that we were still under Babylon 5 influence at the time! However, the White Walkers are not the Shadows or Vorlons.

  247. Luka Nieto,

    Would be a shame as would make very memorable TV for starters.

    It’s that they’re uknown that makes it more terrifying. Varys weaponises these little birds that just disappear back to obscurity after they’ve struck. It was particularly appropriate with Pycelle as there were hints of him being a peadohpile. Varys doing it himself doesn’t fit with his character. He doesn’t get his hands dirty.

    I hope the scene makes it in in it’s original form as it has a lot more impact that way.

    dragonbringer,

    Let’s not forget Tyrion has experience of defending a city under siege which could be useful if events unfold as it appears they might! Would still have preferred Selmy in that role as he has the authority and eperience to be believable but I guess that is going to have to be shared out between Dany’s other cronies now.

  248. Luka Nieto,

    i thought i was doing some of the arguments that people already know will happen ..i cant edit my comment now ..

    i do hope you are right ..he has some good ideas to give and help ..
    what we have here is TWo main characters at the same place ..i dont want one is getting compromised for the other …ever since episode 6 that has been my worry …and that is exactly why i am looking forward to the whole wheel speech …it will give as an idea what the show runners are trying to do with both of them ..

    and i will be happy that at the end of this tyrion does acknowledge that dany is worth fighting for becuase they have gone out of the books to make tyrion question about dany ,..

  249. Wimsey,

    Hardcore fans, particularly book readers, will be incredibly disappointed when Littlefinger’s motives are fully revealed. Actually, let me rephrase that: I think his motives have already been revealed —That is, power. He has discrete, separate plans to cause chaos and obtain more power, not an overarching super-plan. These people are overthinking it because he’s a shadowy character and convoluted theories are what fandoms are made of.

    TheTouchOfFrost,

    Main characters have more impact than complete unknowns, especially in a TV show with actors we’ve known for years. That goes for Varys and Olly as well, to a lesser extent, of course.

    As for Varys not getting his hands dirty, have you forgotten he personally kills Pycelle and injures Kevan with a crossbow? That’s the first time he gets his hands dirty in the books, but he certainly does it. And in the show we’ve been shown he’s a bit more hands-on —such as getting his hands on the wizard who castrated him, and accompanying Tyrion personally to Meereen.
  250. Luka Nieto,

    TheTouchOfFrost,

    and another question rises what exactly

    will they do …i mean we dont see Hizdar in the pits …we only see tyrion, dany, missandei, jorah and darrio in the pits…what happens to hizdar do he escape under the protection of harpy or become and casualty in the pits ..i will be happy if he was killed by sons of harpy more than he becoming leader of the harpy
  251. Grand maester giz,

    Sounds to me like a happy ending.After a bit of searching romance is very likely, but this seems too much.Kids could well and truly happen, because of the hints from the books and even show.Dany thinks, she can never have another children and Jon on the other hand regrets his decision to gjoin the Night’s Watch.I think he would love to have a son or daughter, but not in current situation.He’s got different problems.

    Dany’s death is according to many people pretty much foreshadowed in HotU(show version) the whole scene with Drogo and Rhaego.She’ll die there thus meet them on the other side.Ressurected people don’t last very long.Jon’s purpose wouldbe to fight Others.I wouldn’t be surpised, if they have a son for example,but both of them will die fighting Other or in Dany’s case chilbirth, mirroring Rhaegar/Lyanna.
  252. Luka Nieto: That said, David Bradley is confirmed to come back for season six, and that probably means Walder Frey will get his comeuppance (whether the character we are discussing appears or not),

    Oh, sure, I expect that: but I expect that to be a collateral of wrapping up the Civil War. To beat on my tired old drum…. hang on a second, got to get it from under my desk…. ok, got it…. *tap tap* good, working….. anyway, to beat on my tired old drum, which Stark gets Winterfell is going to be part of this, and I would be very surprised if that is not linked (both in plot and story) to who wins the Iron Throne (or at least to who does NOT win the Iron Throne). That will make Sansa and Arya very important in the plot and story to come (or so I am anticipating). *puts away drum*

    Luka Nieto: Actually, let me rephrase that: I think his motives have already been revealed —That is, power. He has discrete, separate plans to cause chaos

    Well, the ones who have put a lot into particular ideas probably will be disappointed. The one thing that I remember about the “Why of Littlefinger?” debates (keep in mind, this is from 15 years ago!) is how level-headed it was. Basically, everybody admitted that his/her pet idea was a shot in the dark: nobody was claiming that unconnected things somehow “proved” his/her point. It had none of the vitriol of the “Who is Jon’s Mother” or “Who are the three heads” or “Is Robb Stark the True Hero?” discussions.

    And, yeah, the idea that LF just wants to cause chaos to strike back at a system that he feels never gave him a proper chance or due credit (or the girl of his dreams) is just as good an idea as any: and better than most because the key elements supporting it are not overdue. (Keep in mind that 15 years ago, people were expecting some “big reveals” in the next book: but as Crows & Dragons gave us nothing, we probably should give up on such reveals.)

    And that’s fine: these are all perfectly believable motives.

  253. TheTouchOfFrost: Would still have preferred Selmy in that role as he has the authority and eperience to be believable but I guess that is going to have to be shared out between Dany’s other cronies now.

    But as an incidental character, the audience would not see Selmy as such. Tyrion, on the other hand, has been shown to be good with tactics as well as with strategy, and he is surprisingly charismatic in the pinch. And Tyrion is the #3 character in the series, after all! Ultimately, the “direction” in this stuff should come from one protagonist or another.

    I have to admit, seeing Tyrion finally meet Daeny after waiting for this for so long was quite cool. People have anticipated Tyrion defecting to the Targaryen side since Clash, where it became clear that no matter how hard Tyrion tried (and he did try hard), he was not going to be able to remain on working terms with Cersei and/or Tywin. As the Stark and Baratheon sides were out for him, that left Daeny. It probably was unintentional, but it was almost like a double entendre for the long-time fans: that meeting was a bit of a gift!

    (I didn’t think that I’d have to wait 18 years for it, but anticipation, sweetness, etc.)

  254. jorah will sacrifice his life for dany since he is dieing of greyscale anyway. He may discover that dragon fire cures it? & flies off w>dany on drogon. Myhsa hollars down to tyrion that he “… is in charge of fixing this debaucle & we’ll be back w/an army sometime, have a plan ready!” Missandi &greyworm say “screw this, we’re outta here” & run off safely together. Tyrion persuades them to come back & help, as he also summons varys & bronn back. He makes the whole area the most sensible & happiest place on this planet.
    Pigeon,

  255. Wimsey,

    Re “15 years ago, people were expecting some ‘big reveals’ in the next book: but as Crows & Dragons gave us nothing, we probably should give up on such reveals,” the last two books had a few reveals–Aegon with Varys as his backer, the gravedigger. There’s little reason to expect no big reveals in the next two books. We have to find out who Jon’s parents are, find out a bit more about Littlefinger’s motives, the way we were finally told about Varys’s motives. We’ll find out more about the white walkers, the children of the forest, and their motives. We sure as hell will find out about the Pink Letter. The mystery of the burned books and the odd timeline which Sam comes up with should be explained, and something has to happen with all the savior(ish) figures–Azor Ahai, the Last Hero, whatever.

    I think a lot of the “big reveals” people are expecting are imaginary. I don’t believe there’ll be a big reveal of Tyrion/Jaime/Cersei as hidden Targs, or Mance as Rhaegar. There are mysteries clearly introduced in the novels, though, which need to be solved, and imo they will be solved.

  256. Sorry, trying to edit last post now to include ending spoiler tags. Or delete. & sorry just now catching up on thread. Post is somewhat off topic now heehe:-)

  257. Everyone seems to dislike season 2, was it mainly because of Jon’s storyline and “WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS?”

  258. pntrlqst,

    My goodness this speculation is amazing. I don’t think Stannis will personally allow anyone to burn his daughter. It has to be from a diff party (i.e. Selyse).

  259. I love the fact that when main characters come close to together, like

    Tyrion meeting Dany

    , it leaves more open room and screen-time for other main characters.

  260. Imdb had it that arya’s mother would make an appearence in S05E10! Maybe thats mother’s mercy!

  261. Cristina,
    At first I had assumed that Stannis would leave, and Shireen, Selyse, Mel would be left at CB, as happens in the books. With Jon away at Hardhome, Mel and Selyse would be free to sacrifice Shireen. With Stannis and Davos there, it’ll be more difficult. I can’t see Stannis allowing such a thing, and I can’t see Davos allowing it, either, even if Stannis did. The only way they could kill the kid is if her greyscale returned, and if she was doomed in the first place. That could happen, as the show has mentioned greyscale a lot.

  262. My theory concerning Jon and Stannis :

    Stannis will send Mel, Shireen and Selyse at the Wall (probably because of the weather, or Ramsay’s attack). Then, Jon will receive the Pink Letter and get FTW.

    Then, Melisandre will want to resurrect Stannis, she’ll burn Shireen (with Selyse’s approval) and say something like “Lord of light, bring back Azor Ahai”… and it’s Jon who will come back, not Stannis!

  263. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    But surely “Mother’s Mercy” means that she’ll only partially destroy Mereen. Surrounded by strangers must mean that the Sons of the Harpy confrontation at the pits happens in the finale, so I’m hoping that Drogon wipes the Sons out, at least.
  264. Thank you….a big huge ol’ Friday thank you to every person who commented here. A very lovely and entertaining first hour of my work day to be sure. Let me add:

    Def. of Insanity? Doing the same thing expecting different results.

    Friends on the LSH bandwagon. How many times do the popcorn eaters have to be reminded of where the bathroom is? Three. Maester Martin has said that the LSH plot/arc was a mistake, it was a circle that went no where. The writers have said, it is out. I am not sure what is to be left to think, other than that it is out.

    The wailing and gnashing of teeth will ultimately follow when it again does not happen and I am honestly weary of it after what is now going on three seasons. Beat that dead horse much? Poor thing is prepared for burial. If someone misses that character so much, easy…go back and read it and re-read it and re-read it until you feel full.

    Wimsey
    Bang that drum slowly, you have far to go I am afraid before you can retire it completely. Also may I add that I enjoy reading your insights very much and you are usually dead on or wickedly close.

    I am sure that I am the only one that gets a mental image of D & D sitting around reading these predictions and laughing their collective arses off. I sure hope so.

    There are two seasons left to bring everything to completion. Many things will be left out and some things will be touched on for closure and then move on to tie up the main plot lines for all main characters.

    I am in love with this show. LOVE this show and even being Sullied doesn’t stop my appreciation of each and every episode, be they slow moving but full of rich texture and content or fast acting like a beheading and leaving you staring at the television screen as the credits roll going……okay that was….what just happened???

    LOVE IT!!! You keep doing what you do D&D I think it is working and working well!!!

    ’nuff said

  265. while I have not been that let down by this season, these last 3 episodes are going to make this season. I can’t wait for episode 9!!!!

  266. JCDavis,

    link to where Martin has said LSH was a mistake…find me one place that has a quote or a video of him saying that. Doesn’t exist…she will play a major part at the beginning of TWOW…we have two POV characters that will be directly interacting with her…TWO! You can not tell me she isn’t important

    now whether she shows up in the show we’ll wait and see…the show does seem to delay characters much longer than expected…see Euron and the Reeds…they introduced an entire set of characters (the BWB) whose ONLY purpose in the books is to set up LSH…they could have easily had those characters and not included the resurrection angle and just had the Hound kill Beric outright…but they didn’t…and don’t say it’s so Mel can bring Jon back because that is something we don’t know will even happen in the books and is pure speculation

    PS. of course the show runners and Fairley are going to say it’s not happening…this would be the biggest HOLY SHIT moment for non book readers and they’ll lie and misdirect as much as they have to…but they know what the title of episode 10 would imply for book readers…so it’s either an intentional troll job or LSH is a real possibility

  267. Hodor’s Bastard:
    Sword of the Morning,

    I’ll bet on that as well.

    Are you betting that Mel will or that Mel won’t be sent back to the Wall to resurrect Jon Snow? And is that her ultimate purpose? (If not, what?) What you say usually comes to pass, HB, but I cannot imagine Jon Snow becoming another LS.

    I know it is incredibly improbable, given the wounds he takes, but I don’t think he’ll die from them. Beric Dondarrion and LS came back, yes, but they were never the people they were before. They lacked compassion and, to a large degree, common sense.[\spoiler]

  268. The Loon

    Read my comment again, I never said that she wasn’t important. I said that she won’t be in the show.

    For a citation for GRRM having said that, I would have to research it. It may have been an interview with D & D where they said he said it to them. I take that as they aren’t pulling shite from their nether regions for no reason at all.

    Also, the title of episode ten already has three other logical and good sound explanations for the name other than LSH. Cersie, Arya, Danys. Four if you count Selyse. So how is that trolling of them?

    Someone missed their Post Toasties this morning to get so mind screwed by this issue. It just doesn’t have to be that hard.

  269. JCDavis,

    it’s trolling because it ALSO hints at LSH…they could have picked any number of titles that would be impossible to take as a LSH reference…but they chose a title that is one of her names…that’s intentional

  270. Random thoughts on Winterfell:

    When I first understood that they are combining Sansa and Theon’s arcs in season 5, I thought the decision (while it may lead to interesting television) would hurt both existing arcs. How can Sansa become powerful and a player if Theon needs to save her in the end? On the flipside, how does Theon get redeemed if he saves a character that is in control of her situation?

    Now that we’ve seen most of the story play out, I think that that’s not what they’re doing at all. Having Theon betray her for Ramsay?! That was unexpected. I have no fucking idea what they have in store.

    The only thing that’s certain is that they are putting major obstacles in both Theon and Sansa’s arcs. At this point, Sansa is reduced to a damsel in distress and Theon to Ramsay’s pet. But where will they be in the end of the season?

    Sansa took a corkscrew. Theon might get his scene with the tree. And that should be great to watch! It was a risky move, and at this point no one knows whether it was worth it. The end will be what decides.

  271. Ginevra,

    I think Jon is without question dead after the stabbings. The prologue in ADWD pretty much foreshadowed what would happen with Jon, and Melisandre’s POV chapter went further. In the prologue, it is established that wargs live on in their animals even after their human body dies. Melisandre sees a vision of Jon with skulls all around him(which signifies death), and then she sees him as a man,then a wolf, and then a man again. This is why many people believe Jon will live on in Ghost, until his body is resurrected.
  272. Ginevra,

    I don’t think you can trust imdb ratings. There are trolls and fan groups who down vote episodes and shows just to get their favorite shows higher in the rankings. This happened with ‘Breaking Bad’ “fans” down voting ‘The Wire’ and ‘The Sopranos’ so that BB would be rated higher. And I’m sure that happens all the time with other shows. I’ve noticed in the last year, the ratings for previous GOT episodes have went down a lot from where they used to be.

  273. Ravyn:
    Laura,

    I’d argue 95% of the audience couldn’t tell you the title of ANY of the episodes.

    Ha! Too true. I was just discussing Thrones with a work colleague, and she was like, “Remember that episode where you thought this one guy had won his fight until the other guy stuck his thumbs in his eyeballs?” And I was all, “The Mountain and the Viper.” And she was like, “Huh?” And I said, “The big guy was the Mountain and the little guy was the Viper, the Red Viper, Oberyn.” And she was all, “How do you remember all of that?” Well, it’s not like I obsess over this story several hours a day or anything.

  274. Ginevra: Are you betting that Mel will or that Mel won’t be sent back to the Wall to resurrect Jon Snow? And is that her ultimate purpose? (If not, what?) What you say usually comes to pass, HB, but I cannot imagine Jon Snow becoming another LS.

    Thanks but are you kidding me? My predictions (or agreement with others’ predictions) come true about 10% of the time! 🙂 Look to Luka or King Tommen or many others for more astute and rational predictions.

    But the gun has been hung with Mel learning that Thoros was able to “resurrect” Beric with sanity intact. I’m sure Mel has been studying up on this. It’s probably valid to assume that she will try something “deep-R’hlorr” to SOMEONE important in order to continue his/her arc. I’m sure if Jon is resurrected shortly after his body dies (and his mind wargs into Ghost) that he will be just fine. LSH was batshit “mother merciless” because she died screaming, witnessing atrocities, and her body/mind lay rotting for around three days before Nymeria found her and alerted Thoros/Beric. Beric was “tired” and dark because he had been resurrected mechanically by Thoros about 7 times, so I’m sure his “spirit transference” was tainted as well.

    Will some think of this resurrection as a cheap plot device for the continuation of Jon’s story? Probably…but I believe Mel’s purpose is to realize her dream of finding Azor Ahai, at any cost, and Jon is closer to that than Stannis, imho. Perhaps finding a kinship with death might actually be in Jon’s favor too. Plus, I find it incredibly fascinating if Jon wargs Ghost (a la Orell) while his body recovers (if it ever does). Jon has that option in the books but the show doesn’t focus on his “immature” warging ability…so again, I believe Mel will arrive back at CB coincidentally to help him and experiment with her R’hlorr powers.

    Will there be ramifications to this action? Of course! Can the NW be led by an UnJon? How will it affect his decisions? How will his “Targness” be affected by a R’hlorr spell? That is highly interesting to me.

    Hope this helps and thanks for the feedback.

  275. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I would agree with all of that, and yet IMDb is significantly more reliable and objective than the opinions of a single fan or even a single fan website. Ratings slide a lot in the first few days of viewing, and then they do continue to slide some for the next week or two, but I think they slide very little after two to three weeks, though I could be wrong.

  276. Ginevra: Ha!Too true.I was just discussing Thrones with a work colleague, and she was like, “Remember that episode where you thought this one guy had won his fight until the other guy stuck his thumbs in his eyeballs?”And I was all, “The Mountain and the Viper.”And she was like, “Huh?”And I said, “The big guy was the Mountain and the little guy was the Viper, the Red Viper, Oberyn.”And she was all, “How do you remember all of that?”Well, it’s not like I obsess over this story several hours a day or anything.

    Hahahaha! That is exactly what my conversations with colleagues are like!

  277. D&D have never said any such thing. They’ve been ambiguous at best.
    GRRM has also never said any such thing about regretting the LSH character
    These are 2 examples of how stories evolve and change as they go from point A to B etc.
    Maybe she’s out
    Maybe the LSH haters are the ones being trolled
    JCDavis,

  278. Luka Nieto,

    Well they’ve still got old Alliser Throne about for that!

    Although Varys is obviously involved and it was in his quarters, I didn’t think it was made clear how Pycelle specifically met his end. He wounded Kevan but the most memorable part of his death was the Little Birds finishing the job. I’m not sure a straight crossbow death would be that great as it’s already been done with Tywin/Tyrion and although it was kind of meant to mirror it, I think the kids getting knife happy would have more effect.

    But I guess will shall see what they decide to go with. Not sure if it will be this season or the beginning of next.

    Wimsey,

    Only issue is can Tyrion really rise from member of the family ultimately responsible for the fall of her family and death of her father to trusted advisor in the space of three episodes

    when she buggers off on Drogon?

    . Personally I think Dany will reject him yet Hizdahr will take him on as a means of finding out more about Westerosi culture or some such thing. I don’t think this will be the beginning of a full blown Dany/Tyrion link up yet but a brief encounter a bit like in the pits in the books.

  279. Hodor’s Bastard,

    Thanks. I’ll have to read Luka and King Tommen more closely from now on.

    I guess it is more of a wish that I don’t want it to happen because I agree that the groundwork has been laid. Despite the logic behind what you’ve said, I’ll find it hard to see these

    resurrected creatures as anything but half-human, with much of their humanity stripped away with their deaths. For years, I’ve assumed that, if R+L = J, then Jon must be the PTWP and therefore perhaps Azor Ahai and perhaps part of the three-headed dragon. But I didn’t want the PTWP being half-zombie. If we see Mel go back to the Wall in Episode 9 or 10, though, I guess I’ll have to get ready to be disappointed in that regard.
  280. Ginevra

    It is probably wishful thinking but when I first read FTW in the book I was sure Jon was badly wounded rather than dead. He warged into Ghost but it seemed to me that the passage was written craftily to appear worse than it was. GRRM refers to the number of blows which sound a lot but also writes that the first two miss. I think we are going to get scenes that make us recall Barristan/Grey Worm – someone will be stabbed and wounded someone will be stabbed and die.
  281. Ginevra: I guess it is more of a wish that I don’t want it to happen

    I wouldn’t discount it either.

    I recently responded to a poster in an adjacent thread who, like you, thinks that the resurrection isn’t necessary and is a rumor out-of-control. Perfectly plausible.

    But I am fascinated with the varying treatments of “death” in ASoI&F. For better or worse, GRRM has made death debatable and possibly transformative. The ironborn require death by drowning, followed by resuscitation, to become clergy. It is debated that the Red Priests have a similar ritual. As you know, they have an iterative resurrection spell (for both bodies and body parts, it seems). The faceless men take death to another level…a sort of identity theft. The WWs love the concept of being “born again.” The maesters (especially the more adventurous ones) often experiment and wrestle with death. Wargs can extend themselves or escape their physical death by invading an animal’s mind (or in Bran’s case, another human’s mind). There are human and blood sacrifices made to sway fates of the living (or do they?). Then there is the legend of Azor Azai itself, in which the great power of the sword, Lightbringer, is brought to life by the death and heartblood of his wife. Finally, I dare mention all the writing tricks that GRRM employs to allow us to debate who is dead and who is somehow alive!

    Given that small set of “death” examples, I can’t help but wonder what GRRM has in store for this closet warging Targ when resurrected with a prophetic R’hlorr spell! 🙂

  282. I love the analysis of GRRM’s treatment of death here and I agree. For a long time I just chalked it up to sloppy writing but I think it is far more than that. In other words- books not show- for a series where “anyone can die” most people actually DONT or don’t in any straightforward way.

  283. LordDavos,

    He tripled customs revenue at the Port of Gulltown.

    I got the impression that LF’s books weren’t quite what they seemed to be or what he led others to believe they were. Tyrion seemed to discover some manipulations of the books and more borrowing than LF let on. So was he good with money or good with looking like he was good with money?

    Other than that point, it is a really great article. I hadn’t thought about his desire to humiliate the Tullys and Starks, but that would completely explain his motivation to pull Ned in only to betray him, and then to pull Lysa in only to betray her, and then to pull Sansa in only to betray her.

  284. Ginevra

    Yes. Though doesn’t he still need Sansa to control the north? He may have tripped up badly there. I wonder how much Brienne can tell Sansa about LF. And his low birth will always count against him in that society if his aim is the iron throne.

  285. I love that VOX article! Hardcore fans always overthink things, especially when they have too much time in their hands between new installments of the story. For example: Littlefinger doesn’t have a single overarching plan. He has a goal, and many discrete plans to arrive at that goal.

    I love how this approach is being depicted in season five: whoever comes out on top, Baelish can legitimately argue he was on their side all along. His masterstroke was getting Cersei’s approval to literally invade the North and mop up whatever mess is left, whether it is Stannis or the Boltons. By the time anyone in King’s Landing realizes Baelish is getting the North for himself, it will be too late, since he told them about it and got their approval.

  286. JCDavis: For a citation for GRRM having said that, I would have to research it.It may have been an interview with D & D where they said he said it to them.

    Sounds like Alex Graves’ interpretation of D&D’s implication of what GRRM said.

  287. Luka Nieto

    He cleverly downplayed his potential role in that to Cersei – can’t Kevan sort it out, can’t Jamie? One of the reasons why he’s dangerous is he’s not trying to conserve an existing, traditional power base the way Olenna is. He can take risks.

  288. LordDavos,

    Right. I don’t think he’s finished with Sansa, but that would explain why he’s pretending that she’s part of the everything he so desperately wants when that conflicts with the way he has been using her.

  289. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Again, IMDB ratings do excellent jobs of predicting the success of future installments of TV and film series. To put it another way: we can flatly falsify a hypothesis that IMDB rankings are uncorrelated with the best indicator of customer satisfaction: additional purchases.

    So, are there trolls and fans? Sure. Do they do enough to distort the data? No.

  290. Ginevra,
    Keep in mind that the options are not binary! A perfectly plausible scenario is that

    Jon is gravely wounded and saved by Mel’s magic.

    . There almost certainly are still other alternatives.

  291. Maria,

    But we got no big reveals concerning LF. We obviously got a couple of big reveals in Dragons (although none in Crows), but those had nothing to do with LF.

  292. Hoyti Von Totiy,

    My bet is something related to Arya (see released chapter from book 6, The Winds of Winter) and that someone from the past she’ll meet in ep. 9 (according to the synopsis) and also to Daenerys (she’ s Mhysa aka “mother”, if I recall correctly).

  293. mariamb,

    What if

    Jon is resurrected with fire red eyes? More dramatic than ice blue eyes?
    One red and one blue? Ice and fire? Bueller?
  294. So, there’s been a lot of speculation about Stannis’s decision regarding burning poor little Shireen as a sacrifice. Many think he will, since there is that shot in the season trailer (#2) with Selyse crying in the snow. I just watched that trailer again, to listen to the Break the Wheel speech, and had a thought. Why would Selyse cry and have that “I’ll never forgive you” look on her face, unless Stannis chooses to save his daughter, and risk losing everything he’s fought for? Selyse hates her daughter, I mean it’s pretty obvious in the books AND with the dialogue on the show. I honestly feel like the “You are my daughter” speech and Shireen telling her father how her mother told her she didn’t want to take her along are all leading up to Stannis’s Ultimate moment of loyalty to his daughter. To me, that decision would be much more likely to evoke that response we see in the preview from the bitch queen. Opinions??

  295. The Drowned Goddess,

    I can’t disagree. As others have speculated, from the look on Selyse’s face, it seems that her “plan” has gone awry. I doubt she would be so distraught seeing Shireen burn. If Stannis or Mel were being flayed or killed, she might have that look as well, but most likely her plans have been thwarted by either Stannis or Davos. My hope is that Davos saves Shireen from the pyre at the last minute and Stannis makes the decision to banish Selyse and Mel before the battle at WF. Mel heads back north toward Jon while Selyse exits stage left. I hope the outcome of the WF battle is only determined by Stannis’s wit and battle experience, and not by R’hllor sacrifices.

    I’m very interested in what Davos does during the WF siege as well. He may have a parallel mission. In any case, I have a feeling Team Dragonstone will be dispersed or fractured in an episode or two.

  296. Luka Nieto,

    Don’t know if anyone’s still talking on this topic, and this is a response to your very first comment on this page, but…

    Has it been confirmed/suggested somewhere that Ramsay’s going to attack Stannis in episode 9? I’d be really interested to know if that’s true, because if it is then MAYBE Sansa and Theon escape at the end of episode 8. This would trigger Ramsay’s attack, and give us time for some interesting Stannis-Theon/Brienne-Sansa/Brienne-Stannis scenes in the last two episodes.

    So yeah, anyone heard of that attack happening in episode 9, or..?

  297. Hodor’s Bastard,

    I’m thinking Davos will have a role in smuggling Shireen away and she’ll somehow end up with Sam and Gilly on the way to Oldtown. I think Selyse will die before the end of the season and something will happen to get Mel back at the wall. Really not sure what yet though. Still worried we might see the end of Stannis but less so than I was.

  298. TheTouchOfFrost,

    Wow…all the way to Oldtown? I’m hoping that Shireen survives to join Team Rickon!

    I know that Stannis kicked ass at CB last season but success at WF will truly put his KL/Blackwater “curse” behind him. This is Stannis’s GoT moment, win or die.

    Plus, I am one of those who thinks that Stannis wrote the Pink Letter!
    “…even if you hear rumors of my death…”
  299. The Drowned Goddess,

    Okay, that’s a good thought.
    What is that scene in the snow?

    Melisandre and Selyse try to burn Shireen against Stannis’s back and he stops them, exiles or kills Mel and saves Shireen.

    Or

    Stannis is killed by Ramsay.

    What do you think?

  300. Luka Nieto,

    Oh, I just realised after making my last post that

    the reason why you’re assuming there will be a preliminary attack on Stannis in episode 9 is because there’s that trailer showing his camp burning, and if the synopsis for episode 10 is “Stannis marches” then episode 9 is the last time we see that camp.
  301. jentario,

    That’s possible. But right now I’m just trying to contrive it so that interesting things start happening in episodes 8 or 9. I think this plot will be good but I don’t want it all to happen inside episode 10.

  302. mariamb,

    That’s it….funeral pyre….resurrection in fire…..that’s it, I bet my last crown, Internet broken as JS rises from the flames in final scene.
  303. Ginevra,

    I think it’s not just the Starks and Tullys that he wants to humiliate and bring down, I think he wants to bring down all of the Great Houses. I think he’s resentful that the great lords think they’re better than him because of his low birth, so he’s out to prove that he can crush them. He certainly wants power, but not just for its own sake. He wants power so he can bring everyone else down and take whatever he wants.

    The Iron Throne would not be enough for him. He could be King, and still not be satisfied. The Targaryens were kings, but without their dragons, they didn’t have absolute power…the great houses still posed a threat to them if they went too far (as Robert’s Rebellion proved). Robert had to rely very heavily on the Lannisters to maintain his rule. That sort of situation isn’t what Littlefinger is after, in my opinion.

    It’s not so much that he’s willing to burn the whole kingdom down if he could be King of the Ashes, its that he actually wants to burn it down so there’s nobody left who could possibly oppose his rule. I find that his actions make a lot more sense if you assume that he doesn’t want to ally with any of the great houses in the long term, but rather convinces them that he wants an alliance just long enough to lure them to their destruction.

    Each house seems to underestimate him (or at least completely misunderstand him), thinking he’s just an opportunist trying to gain the favor of whoever he thinks is going to win, when in reality, I think he wants them all to lose. They each think they can use him to their advantage, and they all keep walking into his traps.

    Regarding his handling of money, I think he was deliberately running up the crown’s debt to the Iron Bank to destabilize the economy and undermine the crown. At the same time, he noted that Robert loved expensive tourneys, so he invested in businesses (brothels, primarily) that would profit during these events. He was essentially borrowing from the Iron Bank in the name of the crown, and ensuring that a lot of the coin eventually flowed into his own pockets.

  304. In the books Stannis is actually using his skill and battle experience in the war against the Boltons. I hope the show goes that route rather than him winning by sorcery. TEAM STANNIS … but I am preparing for the end of Shireen. I will cry, I have no shame in saying that
  305. Casso

    Good points. The emnity, competition and distrust betweenn key members of the great houses prevent them from putting the jigsaw together when it comes to LF.

  306. I’m curious on the stance between the White Walkers and Littlefinger? Is he aware of them? I would find it ridiculous if he had great knowledge about them. While he’s a popular character, and for good reasons too, I just can’t see him being in any sort of position to play the game when Dragons and White Walkers come into play.

  307. The WW need to be a threat, and if they’re stuck behind the wall they can’t be truly threatening. Thus the wall comes down. If such an absurd structure tumbles, everything within a half mile will be crushed. So, no more Castle Black or Night’s Watch. Nice to have 999 or 1,000 Lord Commanders and no more. So Jon has to leave following Sam. How can he leave? If he dies and is thus released from his oath, them having said, “now his watch has ended.” How would that happen? On a pyre. Why would he climb off the pyre? Because Dany did or because of Mel or both. Why is Jon needed? Because Dany can’t have children with any loser, just dragon mutants. She needs some super sperm. Jon is packing. Also, throne gets melted down in the end, of course. A lot of city burning foreshadowing. Jaime slayed a king so he wouldn’t burn King’s Landing. A pissed Cersei gonna burn that shit down. No King’s Landing. Old Town suddenly more important?

    Well, there is a real spoiler in there so I figured I’d tag it all.

  308. Now that Tyrion is with Daenerys

    and we can predict the show will follow in Dany riding off on Drogon, as she did in the books, what do you think will happen to Tyrion? Will the other dragons be set free and he rides on one of them? – which is highly unlikely, but would be amazing if it did happen. Will he ride with Dany on Drogon? Will he stay in Meereen?
    I highly doubt he’ll be killed off but I was wondering what anyone else would predict – especially since in the season 5 trailer Dany, Missandei and Jorah are surrounded by the Sons of the Harpy in the fighting pit with no Tyrion in sight, but he’s definitely at the fighting pits because he’s there in the episode 9 preview.

    Really hope the spoiler tags worked

  309. Rhianysa,

    I think Tyrion and or Jorah will

    stay behind and wait for Dany’s return, meanwhile preparing for the siege of Meereen (the battle of Fire) – that’s if D&D want to stick close to the storyline. I guess they’ll take Barristan Selmy’s place in the show.
    My question is how will they deal with the 2 remaining (pissed off) dragons, at least till mommy comes back, IF she does, with Drogon to “discipline” them.

    .

  310. Lars:
    So…

    and Varys with Kevan
    and Balon Greyjoy with faceless man
    and Yara Greyjoy in ninth episode
    all speculations through the cast of episdoes.
    and yess White Walker again in finale.

  311. pntrlqst,

    This does add up as a possible scenario with the photos and trailers already released in addition to the outcome of what happens to Jon Snow.

  312. Rhianysa,

    I think it’s pretty obvious that Tyrion, Jorah, Daario, Missandei and Grey Worm will take the role of Barristan and the Meereenese council post-Daznak.

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