Finn Jones says season 5 will be the best yet, with plenty of shocking moments, deaths, and a finale freak out

Finn Jones hit the premiere of his film The Last Showing at Film 4 Frightfest in London last week, and while talking to the press on the red carpet he dropped quite a few hints about Game of Thrones season 5.

Finn tells Red Carpet News TV that the upcoming season is wicked, and well thought out. He reveals that we’re in for a lot of new material that doesn’t happen in the books, and when he read the scripts there were moments he couldn’t believe were happening. When asked who he was sad to see go in season 4 he genuinely couldn’t remember who had died, because he’s already thinking about the characters he’s seen die in season 5. He says there is some great stuff with the Tyrell family in the upcoming season, which he has been filming for 4 weeks, with another 3 weeks coming up later this year. They’ve already filmed a big funeral scene, and he has a fight sequence to look forward to.

Finn tells London Live that he believes season 5 is the best season so far, and it’s filled with a lot of ‘wtf’ moments. We’ll be telling our favorite characters “I can’t believe you’re doing this! What are you doing?” We’ll also be seeing plenty of unexpected character combinations teaming up, or duking it out. He reveals that he recently read the script for the finale episode and literally threw it across the room, and says that viewers are going to freak out.

127 responses

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    1. I thought only the main core cast got to read the script for the entire season. How does he know this? All his character does is have sex with man whores and sit around for a few scenes looking gloomy. finn jones pls

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    2. Loras didn’t get much to do in Book 3, so he didn’t get much to do in Seasons 3 and 4 relative to how much he was in Seasons 1 and 2.

      Loras gets a lot more to do in Book 4 (Season 5)

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    3. Mormont:
      Lots of deaths? I can only think of

      The series is just very loosely based on the books from now on. The series stands its own and sets its own path to the ending. Anyone can die.

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    4. Renly’s Peach: I thought only the main core cast got to read the script for the entire season.

      As far as I know it’s common practice to give the scripts to every actor with a reasonable large role, which Finn Jones certainly has. Besides, they have table reads of the entire season anyway.

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    5. Turncloak,

      I forgot about that one.

      Still I wonder if it isn’t Loras dying that made him throw the script. As pointed out in the previous thread, Sansa and Bran could be possibilities!

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    6. And now let’s start the game of guessing which characters will die in the show that do not die in the books.

      I dont think any major one will bite the dust earlier than in its due time, but some minor and secondary ones can actually be iced in the show and surprise us…

      Speaking of iced, well, in a way, I could see Jorah roasted by the dragons trying to “Quentyn-free” them. It’s a wild spec I know and I dont really believe it myself but who knows…

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    7. I can’t help but laugh out loud when people complain all Loras does is have sex with “randoms” when he had literally one sex scene (besides renly). Get over yourselves people. I’m really looking forward for this season, in part because we all will be a little unsullied wich wil make it quite interesting! I cannot wait!

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    8. Arkash,

      This would be an interesting deviation, for sure, but he’s all

      cautious about Dragons. It wouldn’t really make sense, unless he completely changes character and goes all revenge on Dany.

      I think Bronn may go this season.

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    9. Remember, since it’s getting ahead of the books, we don’t know which deaths will and won’t be taken from book cannon. Let’ s not freak out over deviations now.

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    10. Let’s hope there is something more to those death scenes than simply providing some ‘WTF moments’. The whole ‘WTF moments’ shtick GoT has going on the last two seasons just means aiming at the lowest common denominator, namely shock value. Bring back deaths that mean something, like those of Ned or Yoren or Rodrik Cassel or Maester Luwin.

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    11. I said in another thread that I think maybe they’ll kill off a major character who’s slated to die in TWOW early.

      Jaime or Brienne are the main candidates because they are both POV characters and they are now together as of the end of ADWD. GRRM only needs to keep one of them alive now. Littlefinger is a possibility too.

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    12. Finn seems to be very intrigued by the next season and the show in general.

      I like his passion, although he talks so fast, I’m starting to wonder if he’s on speed or something. 😉

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    13. Robb (breaks)Wind,

      Why would he be trolling? Because he said there is more stuff that wasn’t in the books? This isn’t a new revelation, as we already know about Jaime in Dorne. Also, it is something that has been happening since season 2. Sometimes it works(Arya & Tywin,Hound vs Brienne,Melisandre and Arya/The Brotherhood) and sometimes it doesn’t(Yara attacking the Dreadfort,Jon and the NW raid on Craster’s,Qarth,Talisa). I think since the Hound vs Brienne fight, D&D will look to have more moments like that where two characters who haven’t met in the books interact, and in some cases quarrel. I think Bronn vs the Sand Snakes will be one of those cases.

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    14. A fight scene with loras? will we see the

      siege of dragonstone this season or are they gonna change his path aswell?

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    15. I’ve been thinking for a while that Season 5 will end with the Stannis-Bolton battle, and whoever gets killed off there will not be making it to Season 6. Otherwise, Bronn and Loras seem like good bets, assuming Loras has no further part to play after he’s wounded in battle. I do wonder about Sansa & Littlefinger, give that plot has now entirely jumped ahead. But that’s my guess for the big climactic death: Stannis or the Boltons (or both).

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    16. Veltigar,

      I don’t get how it’s GoT’s “shtick” when most of the deaths were pulled directly from the books, and shock value aside, most of them moved or affected the story in some way.

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    17. Maybe Finn Jones (Loras Tyrell) is being promoted to series regular for Season 5 and that could be why he knows so much.

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    18. Iris,

      I was thinking either that or “For the Watch”- I kind of got a feeling that Finn was referring to the latter, but it seems a bit early for that.

      jjp,

      I agree. Also, it seems to me that a lot of the “shock value deaths” (i.e. Irri and Doreah, Pyp and Grenn, and Jojen) were likely motivated at least in part by a desire to thin the cast herd so they could afford to add some new characters.

      Except for Irri and Doreah, I felt all of those deaths worked, and in all cases, it allowed us to get some new characters.

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    19. Iris:
      Does anybody still believe we could get LS in the finale?

      As much as I would love for it to happen, I’ve just told myself that it’s not happening.

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    20. jjp,

      Yeah, I’m not sure what he is getting at either. Robb and Catelyn’s deaths “meant something”. So did Joffrey,Tywin, and Oberyn’s. Only Oberyn’s death would I consider as “shock value”, and it happened more or less as it did in the book, where his skull was caved in via multiple punches.

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    21. Jordan,

      Secondary (tertiary?) characters are a bit easier to red-shirt and just bump off, I didn’t even really notice or think about those guys just now. Now that I am, I’d like to say that Grenn’s death was glorious.

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    22. I’m going to predict that

      Jaime dies at the end of this season, probably at the hands of Brienne.

      Will probably be some Dumbledore/Snape situation.

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    23. Summer: The series is just very loosely based on the books from now on. The series stands its own and sets its own path to the ending. Anyone can die.

      Loosely based? Nope. They are following the entire story. Just finding different ways to getting to major events due to a change from paper to screen.

      This is a fantasy book readers tell themselves to sleep better at night. The show is going to spoil the books.

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    24. Veltigar,

      Agreed. Adding shock value stuff to the show makes it worse in my opinion, instead of going with sensible storytelling. The show has always been going for that so far, preferring shock value instead of deep and poignant story moments from the books.

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    25. Crossing my fingers that Lora’s has a lot to do this coming season. I was pissed by how little he featured in Season 4, he was literally nothing more than a background extra.

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    26. Grynthaline,

      Again, other than Oberyn’s face being squashed instead of caved in with punches, how have any of the major deaths in the last two seasons been different than in the books? BTW, two of the deaths Veltigar listed(Rodrick and Yoren) happened differently than they did in the books, and I agree that they were better.

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    27. Show deviations or not, there is a good chance that the things that shocked Finn so much are actually from AFFC/ADWD, since he has only read ASOIAF up to ASOS.

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    28. Grynthaline,
      (& Veltigar),

      Can you provide some specifics? You’re entitled to your opinions, but nothing you’re saying is challenging me to evaluate and/or defend my own. (for the record I agree Jaime and Cersei in the Sept was terrible, if that’s something you’re getting at)

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    29. Matt,

      We already know he has a scene in the big funeral, a sex scene and a fight scene (and that’s without including normal talk scenes) so I think it’s safe to say he’ll have as big a role in season 5 as he ever had.

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    30. Grynthaline,

      Because GRRM isn’t about shock value (hint- he totally is).

      Case in point: “Oh shit, I’m late for my rape.”

      The books aren’t perfect specimens. Shock value is a big part of the story in both mediums.

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    31. since LS isn’t looking likely Brienne could die
      Shireen’ s demise is imminent if Melisandre gets her way
      Margaery was also on trial for treason at the end of ADWD so she’s possible
      And of course anyone could die in the Battle of Ice/Winterfell

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    32. Veltigar: The whole ‘WTF moments’ shtick GoT has going on the last two seasons just means aiming at the lowest common denominator, namely shock value.

      Which deaths are these you’re talking about? Most of the deaths in the last 2 seasons all came from the books. Tywin’s death was if anything understated – same with Shae. The Red Viper? It was a horror show in the books as well. Ygritte’s was handled really sensitively and hardly a shock-value moment, too. Joffrey’s is horrifying in the books, and same on the show. The Red Wedding was the Red Wedding.

      So who does that leave? Karl Tanner? Ok, that one I’ll go with, but that’s still not a lot of evidence.

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    33. Andrew,

      This is crazy.

      I guess I have not fully considered Stannis’s death. I don’t buy the pink letter. But if there is the battle at winter fell this season; he’s up against TWO Boltons…. (I’m thinking TV here)…. his chances are slim. If he dies, was his character really just a vessel to get the Red Woman (and Shireen) to the wall??? This will piss off some Stannis fans, I can see all the hate now…………..

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    34. Mormont,

      Where do you get that Shireen’s death is immanent? Certainly the books at this point don’t suggest that. The show seems to have suggested Shireen might be important. I didn’t interpret anything ominous in Mel saying the LoL needs her. I fear for her safety in the books because of Val’s strong reaction to her.

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    35. I can think of some possible deaths in the Meereen storyline:

      – someone will eat the poisoned locusts, but unlike Strong Belwas, they will die. Probably either Grey Worm or Missandei, which will come after the show has built their relationship more, to make it more tragic
      – someone may take Quentyn’s role in freeing the dragons, and may get roasted. Possibly Daario.
      – we may get to see the battle of Meereen, so whoever dies in TWOW in the battle will die in a season 5. Possibly Barristan.

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    36. If they are accelerating toward the ending, any character may meet the stranger next season. We could be dealing with the combined bloodlust of D&D and GRRM.

      I believe the following people will die in season 5: Brienne & Pod (probably killed by the brothers without banners); Ser Barristan & Missandei (or Grey Worm, but not both)(probably in a battle at Mereen); Dario (probably freeing the dragons/trying to claim one after Dany takes flight). Loras, Bronn & Jamie (in a confrontation with the Sand Snakes)(although Jamie may survive as a hostage). Several characters will die off screen in the battle of WinterHell, but I believe we will not know who; Jon Snow (for the Watch).

      Cersei and Margeary will definitely survive until season 6 at least. Tryion and Jorah will be meeting up this season and will survive until season 6. I am on the fence for Littlefinger, but Sansa will survive. Brann will survive, there is just too much invested in him (Hodor too). The red woman will also survive (she has a part to play before the end). Dany will also survive, not because she deserves to, but because without her the dragon part of the story falls apart and you can’t have Game of Thrones without dragons. Arya will obviously survive because she is a survivor (and she needs to kill the red woman).

      The season will end with Dorn marching on Kings Landing, Dany having won the battle of Mereen but loosing all of her friends, Jorah and Tryion ready to join Dany and finally head to the seven kingdoms, Sansa will well on her way to being lord of the Vale, and the north will be in complete and utter chaos.

      Of course that is all a wild guess.

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    37. Annara Snow,

      Barriston is a possibility. I think this will be season 6 though. I do think the locusts will kill off an officer, maybe grey worm. I am thinking the dragon roasting will be Hizdar; I don’t see all the politics playing out like they do in the books. No time for that.

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    38. Sister Kisser,

      I’ve long felt the only logical conclusion for Stannis is that he’ll be sacrificed by Melisandre the instant she realizes he’s not actually Azor Ahai. They’ve been building up the king’s blood angle for so long, and that seems plot-twisty enough to predict. Buuut I could just as easily see Ramsay and Stannis killing each other on the Ice and leaving a power vacuum in the North, as well.

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    39. Annara Snow,

      –I still think you could have Strong Belwas, this year, as a 2-ep character. He speaks eloquently about wanting to re-open the pits in an audience before Dany. He wins a great battle in the pit, and is invited as the honored guest. And eats the locusts. It wont happen, but there’s an easy way to do it, and that’s it.
      –I don’t see how we get the Battle of Meereen this year. Dany has quite a lot of storyline to work through, still, and plenty of political developments. And so does Tyrion.
      –Maybe they can roast Daario so he turns back into Ed Skrein.

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    40. H. Stark,

      If she returns to Croatia later, it probably means Myrcella returns to King’s Landing. But I guess they can have her arrive right into internal sets rather than show her outside. We’ll see, anyway.

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    41. Greatjon of Slumber,

      Now that’s funny. But we haven’t heard anything of a Euron casting yet…….

      On a serious note.

      Strong Belwas would be really, really cool. Also, unexpected. There has to be some character to drive the pits though, giving people (Dany and co. included) a reason to care.

      I like it.

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    42. Sister Kisser,

      People said the same thing about the election, until Denys Mallister and Bowen Marsh got cast. I think that there is definitely time for that little political skirmish (and I think Ian McElhinney deserves the chance!), but it’ll obviously not be as elaborate as it was in the books. My guess is:

      Missandei dies from poisoned locusts, which makes Gray Worm (who was in some odd relationship with her, and cares for her a lot) suspect Hizdahr was trying to assassinate Dany. So he and Barristan and probably Daario arrange a coup and overthrow Hizdahr, emprisoning him. Who is the actual poisoner in the show? Beats me. Maybe they just streamline it to make Hizdahr the real poisoner. In any case- the coup in Meereen leads directly into the battle of Meereem since Hizdahr was the only thing keeping Yunkai and Meereen from all out war. This can all be done within one or two episodes. Then the battle itself would be kind of like the Purple Wedding was in season 4 where it takes about half of an early episode (I’d say 2 or 3) and the dragons get freed during this episode as part of the battle. Then you’ve got 7 or 8 episodes to get Team Dany to Westeros, which is more than enough.

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    43. Good grieves people, forget about the books for a moment. I specifically listed Rodrik Cassel’s death, which is radically different on the show, as an example of a proper death scene (Btw his death was better than in the books).

      Just because a death occured in the books, it doesn’t mean that it isn’t played out for shockvalue on the show. Similarly, if someone dies on the show who’s still alive in the books, that doesn’t automatically mean they went for shockvalue alone.

      What I was critiquing with the GoT ‘death shtick’, is the increasing emphasis on the event of the killing (look at how badass we are for killing X, Y and Z), instead of the characters that are getting slaughtered (note that I’m critizing the writers, not the actors who do an incredible job).Going for shockvalue isn’t always a problem. With some deaths it’s even appropriate (best example Lysa Arryn. You needed to go WTF there).

      It does however become a problem when you have main characters turning up at the slaughterhouse without proper build-up (Ygritte, Tywin, Oberyn, Robb en co). And it feels like they are just ticking of boxes, robbing the moment of its intimacy (Pyp really felt like that). Or when emotional anguish is replaced by terrible CGI skeletons, Wushu spinmoves, way to many cuts and an exploding head. Or when deaths are the results of gaping plotholes (Locke). Another thing that hurts connecting with certain deaths is the lack of nuance. I’m specifically thinking about the Thenns and Locke here, who were portrayed as 100% evil. Nothing redeeming about them.

      The later seasons have far more of these type of deaths than others. There are still some good ones, of course. Grenn had a brilliant death on the show, that was what I want to see. The Hounds deathscene

      yeah, I know gravedigger

      was also good (eventhough the scene leading up to it was dumb).

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    44. This may be a stretch, but I’m guessing that Walter White gets the life breath of fire and is resurrected. Oh and Saul Goodman takes over the Iron Bank. Oh and Jessie Pinkman becomes Loras’ bitch, bitch.

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    45. Veltigar,

      Thanks for expanding on that, I think I mistook your initial comment as saying something like “WTF moments = bad, and the show has a problem with that, but the books don’t.”

      I disagree about the main character deaths not getting proper build-up though, or being robbed of emotional depth. Except maybe in Jojen’s case, but he was never a particularly interesting character IMO, and certainly not a main one.

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    46. Grynthaline,

      The deep and poignant moments are shitty wandering around moments and endless shitty food descriptions that fill out entire pages ? No thanks ! Oh wait how could i forget about the wonderful descriptions from ADWD of Dany having diarrea or thinking for pages on long about having sex with Daario, that was some truly beautiful writing not to mention entire chapters of Cersei being an one dimensional bitch when we already knew that about her and having no character developement whatsover,that is some beautiful writing , Brienne wandering around talking to characters no one cares about,another instance of deep and poignant moments .

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    47. Summer: The series is just very loosely based on the books from now on. The series stands its own and sets its own path to the ending. Anyone can die.

      Amen.

      D&D are actually starting to write compelling stuff. They are going to do wonders this season. The more they stray, the more they will entertain and keep interest.

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    48. Ryoko Masaki,

      That’s going seriously overboard in predicting deaths. Especially

      predicting the death of Jaime, seeing as he is almost certainly the valonqar, and so he has to live to kill Cersei.

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    49. TaviColen123,

      I’m not saying screw the books. I just don’t think those two would translate well in this format without much deviation. Feast is my second favorite book behind Thrones and Dance certainly had some amazing chapters and plotlines that I am hoping still make it in.

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    50. I have a question for you guys; what would your general feeling be if the Battle of Meereen wasn’t shown

      because unless say, Tyrion dies in it, nothing will happen to any of the show’s major characters in it.
      Victarion hasn’t been cast yet and the ship’s he’d bring are already mysteriously in Meereen, Dany’s with the Dothraki, leaving only Barristan, Grey Worm, Missandei, Daario and Hizdahr vs who? Yezzan and some unnamed characters taking up say 20% of a season’s budget

      Richard Horpe:
      Mormont,

      You didn’t think the Lord of Light needing Shireen was ominous? Coming from Mel, the sacrificer of lambs, who gets all hot for King’s blood?

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    51. Mormont:
      I have a question for you guys; what would your general feeling be if the Battle of Meereen wasn’t shown

      You didn’t think the Lord of Light needing Shireen was ominous? Coming from Mel, the sacrificer of lambs, who gets all hot for King’s blood?

      Nope. Although mileage may vary. I’ve seen a couple other people have the same thought as you though.

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    52. Telltale has released new info on their Gamr of Thrones game. Apparently will be following my king Stannis’ ADWD storyline. IGN also speculated something’s involving Telltales comments including a possible huge spoiler of

      Stannis winning the iron throne

      . We Shall see. Come the dawn we shall see.

      Here’s the link

      Telltale Releases First Game of Thrones Title Information
      http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/08/29/telltale-releases-first-game-of-thrones-title-information

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    53. Mormont,

      We don’t know yet exactly how the battle plays out. They have all of season 5 to build up Dany’s adversaries, and I have a feeling

      Barriston sees his final battle 🙁 . Also, Dany will likely show up with the Hoarde, fuck shit up, and then leave Essos… so that will be tied up with the battle- heavy CGI eating up some budget.

      jentario,

      You’ve got a pretty good abbreviated rundown for the Meereenese politics. I suppose I was looking for

      Dragon food, and also thinking the Green Grace. Sons of the Harpy, Brazen Beasts…. all of this can be cut. I agree it will be nice to see Mc’Elhinney get to kick some ass- (really fucking cool book chapter)- but was thinking we’ll see him as “the Bold” in the battle.
      Is Hizdar played up as a mediator, with his father’s backstory from s4 and all that? I guess a lot of this will depend on how well they flush out all the conflict within Meereen. I can see them cutting a lot of that, and focusing on the external enemies, building up to the siege.

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    54. Finn Jones mentioned a funeral that Jack Gleeson would have been a part of. I’m assuming this is the funeral of Tywin, early on in S5. Hopefully Kevan Lannister makes his reappearance at the funeral (or before!)

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    55. Turncloak,

      WHAAAAT hahahahahahahah oh shit!

      I would be highly surprised if a) this proved true, and b) if telltale were given the green light to spoil anything of the sort.

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    56. Sean C.:
      Ryoko Masaki,

      That’s going seriously overboard in predicting deaths.

      Yeah, I know, but with just two seasons left after season 5 the story will likely need to be streamlined something fierce.

      I don’t actually think Jamie is the Valonqar. I actually think Viserion (the dragon) might be the Valonqar. But that is one of my more crackpot theories. The truth is, I think Jamie’s life and death are going to completely diverge from the books.

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    57. Sister Kisser,

      That’s almost certainly not true. IIRC they said the game would take place in the universe of GoT/ASoIaF, but would almost never interfere with the main storyline or characters. I expect something similar to the WD game.

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    58. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,
      Agree about Theon.

      S5 is not his time to die. There is more of his story to tell and I look forward to it. Theon’s arc is one of my favorites in these books.

      Andrew,

      Love your comment about Mel sacrificing Stannis when she realizes that he is not Azor Ahai. I’ve not heard anyone suggest this before and it is an interesting possibility.
      Possible death suggestions – hopefully not all of them:
      Bronn, Brienne, Pod, Trystane (if he takes in Quentyn’s role), another one of the hostages either Grey Worm or Daario. As far as the “freak out” finale, I think its Varys’ game-changing moves and “For the Watch.” What other event could be defined as reading “the script…and literally threw it across the room”?

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    59. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I don’t care much for elaborating it because most people who do that are labeled purists and told to stop watching the show, but a few examples are having Robb’s wife killed to add to the effect of the already devastating Red Wedding, on top of making her pregnant, on top of killing her by stabbing her in the belly repeatedly. Also, showing the scene blatantly confirming Theon’s penis getting cut, instead of subtly referring to it and the viewers being horrified after they put together all the clues. Of course, these are all because the show is unwilling to be complex and cater to casual viewers, which is why shows like Breaking Bad are praised for their complexity and in my opinion, won the Emmys over GoT.

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    60. Grynthaline,

      I don’t think GoT is oversimplified. It has one of the largest casts in TV today. Compared to the books? Yes, it has to be streamlined; you can only show internal dialogue (if at all) through external dialogue and action. Comparing the books to the show is apples to oranges. If we compare GoT to other TV shows however, it becomes apparent that GoT is extremely rich in content and has a higher level of complexity than most other TV shows. Fyi, I’m totally on board with Breaking Bad. Imo, BB is one of the best, if not the best, examples of a successful and thoughtful TV show narrative.

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    61. Grynthaline,

      I actually agree with you on the whole Talisa business. That is a legitimate case of going for shock value. I disagree on Theon’s castration. TV is a visual medium, you have to show something like that and not just dance around it and hint at it.

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    62. For the mods (and everybody else who cares to read it):

      I’m very happy with the new site, but here are some things that I think could be improved.

      1. The font in the forum could be a little bit bigger. Maybe I have just shitty eyes, but I find it hard to read.

      2. Repost from another thread: Is there any reason for the “You may also like”-section on pages like “About Us“? I don’t think it looks very good and frankly, I don’t see the point of it. It should be deleted, imo.

      3. Can’t find one at the moment, but in some comment sections are “ping back” (or something like that) links to other posts. I find them unnecessary and distracting when reading the comments. They should be removed as well, imo.

      Always Support the Bottom. 🙂

      Edit: I just saw that we have a thread for things like that in the forum, but because of point one of this post I don’t go there very often. 😀

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    63. Wicnet has set pics from Kastel Gomilica. Someone linked them on afoiaf.

      I hate it when they get a scoop first. (Thank R’hollor it happens so infrequently).

        Quote  Reply

    64. I have to agree with all those who say the death which led to Finn Jones throwing the script across the room is

      For the Watch

      ,
      especially if he hasn’t read the last two books, as someone suggested.

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    65. jentario,

      “Loras, Myrcella, Ramsay, Roose, Theon, Missandei, Yara and Pod are all valid options based on TWOW spoilers and potential deviations.”

      Shireen has the mark of death on her. Waking dragons from stone? King’s blood? Methinks she is going to be sacrificed so someone else can live. I am not sure if this winds up in S5 but I wouldn’t be surprised if it makes it into TWOW.

      Also, if S5 contains LS, then they might move the whole thing forward and include the (to book readers) upcoming clash between Jamie, Brienne, and LS. Any combination of them could die, and I strongly suspect at least one of them will.

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    66. Regarding the fate of Loras Tyrell in Season 5

      I believe Loras will play a bigger role in Season 5 and beyond:
      1) He will be at the big funeral
      2) He will have a sex scene
      3) And allegedly a fight scene.
      4) Willas Tyrell (the heir of Highgarden) will be a huge player in ASOIAF Books 6 and 7. Since Willas does not exist in the GoT universe, Loras IS the heir of Highgarden. D&D have done some changes in the books, but haven’t deviated from the major plots. As per GRRM, the Willas arc is a major one.
      5) Finn is very protective of Loras and attached to his character. He’s been very vocal about not being happy with how Loras was portrayed in Seasons 3 and 4 vs the books. However, he seems pretty excited for Loras in Season 5.

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    67. Grynthaline,

      I won’t jump down your throat and I certainly won’t tell you to stop watching the show (I wasn’t crazy about books 4 & 5 but lord knows I’ll be reading TWOW), I just wanted a little more info so we could talk about it.

      Talisa; I think the idea was to be able to also shock viewers who already read the books, for better or worse. I won’t deny it’s shock for shock’s sake, but there’s at least some reasoning behind it.

      Theon; I think a lot of what happened to Theon on the show was simply a product of the fact that they couldn’t do a whole season without Alfie and then allude to it all in flashback. And while it may be more blatant due to being on-screen, Ramsay honestly takes it pretty easy on Theon compared to the books.

      “these are all because the show is unwilling to be complex and cater to casual viewers” You kinda lost me here. Even if I were willing to accept for the argument’s sake that the show isn’t complex (I’m not), I don’t get how topping off the Red Wedding with Talisa’s death or depicting Theon’s castration is somehow proof of that.

      And Breaking Bad won because it’s awesome, not because of anything GoT did wrong.

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    68. jjp,

      I think leaving Robb’s wife alive would have left room for speculation on whether she would come back and be involved in the story in a way, instead of just cutting all the ropes then and there (the book did that too, but my reasoning is it would have left a thread between the seasons to talk about). As with Theon, leaving that question unanswered for a time and only hinting to it with Theon’s weird behaviour and Ramsay’s mocking, eventually confirming what happened to him so watching all those scenes with the new insight giving them more meaning. But these are all personal opinions, I personally think these kind of choices add complexity to a story instead of a definite shock & answer way the show has chosen.

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    69. Grynthaline,
      “…only hinting to it with Theon’s weird behaviour and Ramsay’s mocking, eventually confirming what happened to him so watching all those scenes with the new insight giving them more meaning.”

      Hmm, when you put it this way I better understand where you’re coming from, that could’ve been cool. And although I didn’t hate the scene overall (very difficult for me to do that for any scene that has Iwan Rheon screen-time), I admit the thing with Myranda and Violet was pretty awful.

      On the other hand, having that scene on-screen set up Ramsay’s sausage trolling bit in e10, which was quintessential show-Ramsay.

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    70. Turncloak: Arya

      #Endgame

      Crazy speculation time!

      Kindly Man gets tired of Arya’s unsanctioned kill list, sends Waif to kill her and take AryaFace.

      Waif kills Arya.

      Arya wargs Waif

      AryaWaif brings AryaCorpse to Kindly Man

      AryaWaif wears AryaFace

      Arya kills Kindly Man and goes home to Westeros.
      #Endgame

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    71. Deaths, deaths everywhere…

      I still hold firm to my belief that it will be Brienne who kills Cersei to save Jaime. She is younger, more beautiful (she is called, mockingly, Brienne the Beauty) and will do it because Jaime can’t.

      This will be the scene that closes episode 9. Crack, maybe?

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    72. And that is why we love Finn Jones. Holy crap. We scramble for scraps from vague photos of blurry actors and half-built props and then he drops this stuff on us. Awesome! Granted, it’s all very vague, but tantalizing as hell. We’ve been speculating on how they can come up with an interesting enough finale to top previous seasons’, and it sounds like they’re going to be drawing on so much unpublished material that our Unsullied jaws will hit the floor.

      I’m sort of disappointed GRRM has let the show so completely overtake him, but I’m also kind of over it, and ready for a great season where we’ll all be in the same boat as Oz of Thrones by the last episode – totally blind to the fates of each and every character and their potentially imminent deaths at any given moment.

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    73. Depending on what the season will look like and which characters get cut, this may be, could be, would be possible.

      Maybe Varys, instead of killing Kevan in the epilogue, could kill Tommen instead, since he is the first king in 50 years to actually deserve the throne.

      I’m not saying it will happen, nor do i completely believe it. It would be the biggest change, the one to rule them all. It would also need a lot of groundwork and thoughts as to how it affects the characters and the story.

      it’s been a theory of mine for a long time that Tommen beats the dust in TWOW. Who kills him, not syre yet. But Varys killing a child..hmm. I don’t know if I’m okay with that.

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    74. jjp:
      Veltigar,
      Thanks for expanding on that, I think I mistook your initial comment as saying something like “WTF moments = bad, and the show has a problem with that, but the books don’t.”

      Story of my life really, they always want to peg you down as a bookpurist if you offer critcisim of the show :'(

      jjp:
      Veltigar,
      I disagree about the main character deaths not getting proper build-up though, or being robbed of emotional depth. Except maybe in Jojen’s case, but he was never a particularly interesting character IMO, and certainly not a main one.

      With the exception of Karstarks execution (that was another great death scene btw, the best of season 3), Robb and co were basically a non-entity throughout season 3. Then they turn up at the Twins and get slaughtered. Not a good way to handle it, we should have spent more time with them (and have better scenes than the awful robe scene) and given their arc a bit of time to breath. Instead of the succession of ‘Stupid Edmure’, ‘bad decision’, ‘worse situation’, ‘attack CR’, ‘we’re pregnant’, ‘get killed’.

      Ygritte was absent from the show for a long stretch and she mostly had short scenes when she did appear. Instead of the disaster that was the craster’s keep storyline, they should have devoted time to her and the Wildlings, to humanize them more (the decision to turn the Thenns into cannibals was a low point imo). To show us that they to are fighting for a worthy cause.

      I really hated that we didn’t get to see her, and then we got the brothel scene (which was a really cheap way to get the audience to care again, I hate it when shows pull that card), and then her death. The death scene itself was horrible to, in the midst of a raging battle. It’s so unrealistic (that’s one case were I would refer to the books, GRRM handled that better).

      With Tywin we had the whole cutting of Tysha, which I won’t expand on, because it has been done to death. And with Shae there was the whole Tyrion white washing, which has also been expanded on several times.

      Oberyn had some good build-up throughout the season (except the ‘I live in a brothel’ parts), but like I stated earlier, the defining scene of that character is the duel. They completely fucked that up by devoting more time at petty jabs at Orson Card, throwing in fancy wushu spins, horrible choreography (what were they thinking having the Mountain fight with only one hand? Why the fuck did they stay loyal to that part of the books?) and some stupid David Cronenberg hommage. That scene was certainly not as strong as it should be (the only thing worth keeping from that scene is Indira Varma performance).

      Jojen is a main character to me (just like Ygritte and Locke really) and those skeletons and fireballs were dreadful. And a quite unnecessary waste of money really, I wish we got more direwolf action instead. Not a dignified way to go for a guy who’s nickname was the little grandfather.

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    75. Veltigar:

      Robb & Ygritte got more screen-time on the show than in the books though, just by virtue of the POV structure. The deaths had more impact in some ways just because of that. I think the small “all she talked about was killing you” subplot added quite a bit to the scene.
      I don’t understand your complaint about Ygritte in Mole’s Town, you lament that the show doesn’t humanize the wildlings, but when she spares Gilly you call it “a really cheap way to get the audience to care again, I hate it when shows pull that card.” I thought the scene was cool (the blood dripping through the ceiling was a nice touch).

      They completely fucked that up by devoting more time at petty jabs at Orson Card, throwing in fancy wushu spins, horrible choreography (what were they thinking having the Mountain fight with only one hand? Why the fuck did they stay loyal to that part of the books?) and some stupid David Cronenberg hommage. That scene was certainly not as strong as it should be (the only thing worth keeping from that scene is Indira Varma performance).

      I must confess I don’t entirely understand 3 of those 4 references. I enjoyed the scene though, especially the “who gave you the order!?” part. I also liked Varma, I think she provided a lot of the emotional impact you believe is lacking.

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    76. jjp:
      Veltigar:
      Robb & Ygritte got more screen-time on the show than in the books though, just by virtue of the POV structure. The deaths had more impact in some ways just because of that. I think the small “all she talked about was killing you” subplot added quite a bit to the scene.

      We had way more time with Catelyn and via her Robb and co in the books than we had on the show. Ygritte time was badly utilised, for a character that played a much bigger role on the show.

      They should have humanized her and the other wildlings by showing that their cause was a worthy one to, which it totally is, with all the ice zombies attempting to ‘convert’ all of them to their way of life (well, actually death), not by having her be merciful on a girl with a kid. That was out of character for show Ygritte, who had no qualms about contributing to the killing of an entire village and is a horribly cheap way to manipulate emotions.

      jjp:
      Veltigar:
      I must confess I don’t entirely understand 3 of those 4 references. I enjoyed the scene though, especially the “who gave you the order!?” part. I also liked Varma, I think she provided a lot of the emotional impact you believe is lacking.

      Wushu spin moves = lame and unrealistic form of martial arts thrown in to razzle dazzle the audience. See SW: the Phantom Menace Darth Maul vs. Obi Wan for a slightly better but still horrible fight.

      David Cronenberg hommage = Famous filmmaker, who’s famous for (amongst others) Scanners a movie where a guys head explodes. Oby’s head explosion robbed his death of much of its innate power, because it was utterly ridiculous. They should have stopped at gouched eyes and a scream.

      Orson Card = writer of Ender’s game. He very publically criticised D&D, so of course they had to name a mentally deficient Lannister after him to get even.

      Horrible loyalty to the books = The mountain uses a greatsword with only one hand in both book and show, that looks incredibly awkward on the show. His moves lack strength, speed and accuracy, because even that actor isn’t big enough to properly wield a greatsword with only one hand. They could have vastly improved his side of the choreography by having him fight with two hands, which would be realistic.

      As to Indira Varma, she was great, but she couldn’t lift the scene up from the low point that the fight was. If only that fight scene had gotten a proper treatment (where she would have had even more time to pour emotions into the scene). Pedro would have done great things.

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    77. nym sand,

      lol wow! Gotta love her. Can’t even tell if that was a real freak out or not, she’s that good of an actress.

      Also can’t wait to see what they do with Arya and Theon’s respective story lines. I’m a total Theon/Reek sympathizer now. Sure he did some horrible things but I think he’ll redeem himself.

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    78. Not really, because he has read the books, if he was shocked, they’re made up for the books.

      Up to ASOS. He never read AFFC/ADWD AFAIK, just the Wiki synopsis of his own character. So yes, I can see him being shocked by “For the Watch” or Cersei’s

      “Walk of shame”, or even Arya going blind. Loras own death or “death” is a good guess too, if it’s made especially gruesome.

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    79. BrightroarsBane,

      I don’t think it’s getting ahead of the books this season. Characters like Bran, Brienne, and Sansa may have show invented filler, like Bran had with Kraster’s Keep last year, but I don’t see anyone actually getting ahead of the books just yet. That will be Season 6.

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    80. Alejandro,

      And how exactly would you ascertain what will be “filler” and what will not? Let’s take Sansa as the bext example: she’s got half a chapter left to adapt, the producers have clearly stated they will not wait for George, and they know where things are going in the books. Knowing all of this, is it crazy to assume they advanced Sansa’s storyline so much last season because they know she has a juicy storyline ahead in the books? Remember, very few people correctly guessed the “Lords Declarant” storyline would be resolved in a single episode. It was all over quite fast, so the question is why? But more importantly: when season 5 comes, how exactly do you intend to confirm any of it is invented, considering the possibly equivalent source material is not even published yet?

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    81. Alejandro,

      Man you guys are really desperate at keeping the ilussions that they are not going to pass the books right,you are clinging into every convolutated possibilities .

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    82. jjp:
      Veltigar:

      Robb & Ygritte got more screen-time on the show than in the books though, just by virtue of the POV structure. The deaths had more impact in some ways just because of that. I think the small “all she talked about was killing you” subplot added quite a bit to the scene.

      The real problem, IMO, is that Catelyn became a non-entity in season 3, until the RW (even the show runners were aware that the RW plays out as her tragedy, ultimately).

      OTOH, season 3 wasted so much time on a sub-par, drawn-out King’s Landing storyline where 80% of the scenes were just people randomly snarking at each other, with some comedy brothel scenes thrown in (Podrick-the-sex-god is probably the show’s most embarrassing minor storyline, and they spent more on it than on setting up the RW properly) and the only thing that happened was the Sansa/Tyrion wedding, which they botched and watered down in a particularly infuriating way (how does a forced wedding of a 14-year old girl into a family of her captors who have been murdering her family become a story in which she’s a supporting character and which is all about how noble and awesome her husband is and how tragic it is that he won’t get to have sex with his mistress and that his underage hostage wife doesn’t feel grateful and happy for being married to him?).

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    83. Just got a chance to actually watch the interview with Finn. I’d not heard the bit about the “gruesome” fx. Hopefully, they’ll be keeping that bit from the books as it was so important to Reek/Theon (not looking for porn here, just the situation).

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    84. Ashara D:
      Just got a chance to actually watch the interview with Finn. I’d not heard the bit about the “gruesome” fx. Hopefully, they’ll be keeping that bit from the books as it was so important to Reek/Theon (not looking for porn here, just the situation).

      I don’t think that this is happening, or it’s not in the scripts at least, because Finn looked completely at a loss what the interviewer was referring to. I wonder where the interviewer got that from, though.

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    85. Get a sneaky feeling that we may see the end of Bronn this season (hope not but…) although casting Lollys is an odd move if there’s not going to be much interaction with her…unless she takes on some roles of other characters at KL. I think/hope we lose a Sand Snake or two as well Trystane/Quentyne. I thin Myrcella is in jeopardy as are some of Dany’s retinue ( happily see the back of the dull aged-up Missandei or Grey Worm), Hizdahr zo Loraq may make it out of this season alive but probably not much further. Personally I hope Loras gets offed not at Dragonstone but defending the Shield Islanders against the Ironborn. Him getting smashed by Euron or Victarion would be a great way to introduce their characters but this theory is shamlessly about me wanting them to include the two characters. Balon is obviously got to die at some point ( nearly two seasons overdue!). Everyone else I can see being relitively safe…for now.

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    86. Please! For now it is just talk…we don’t really know what will happen…and if Finn Jones has already forgotten soo many details about Season Four…I put little stock in what he knows about Season Five, especially since actors only get their individual scripts and seldomly get the entire picture of what is happenning in the season in its entirety, and then only perhaps in post-production when principal filming is done.

      Remember both cast and crew are separated and spread over many different locations, and the shooting of the episodes or parts of episodes is not necessarily in a sequential or linear order…

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    87. Speaking of Finn Jones. He’s got a new film coming out soon. I made note of it as I used to be a cinema projectionist ( I left before it was digitised which has pretty much made the profession extinct and is quite a good motivation for the antagonist in this film!) and always though it would be an interesting premise for one to be psychopath/murderer!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaZEmA5ttUM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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    88. Haha, I love Finn Jones’ enthusiasm.

      I assume Jon’s assassination was his throwing-the-script-across-the-room moment.

      He’s right, unsullied viewers are going to freak out when they see that for sure, possibly on a level never before seen. Can’t wait! 🙂

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    89. Maybe Ser Loras will

      fight Gregor / Robert Strong in Cersei’s trial. He’s not Kingsguard in the show yet, so maybe he volunteers to fight on behalf of the Faith out of spite against Cersei because of what she did to Maergery. There’s also my spitball theory that whomever fights RS will behead him only to get killed because RS doesn’t need a head. If that happened to my character on a show, I’d probably throw the script across the room. lol

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    90. …I’m not quite sure if I should continue watching this series. I might finally throw my laptop across the room (the Red Wedding almost made that happen, but then I burst into tears, which I think was a fine reaction, considering)… Well, from the looks of things, shit will happen.

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