Game of Thrones filming at Kaštel Gomilica rolls on, major news on controversial scene, and more

K. Gomilica, 02.09.2014 - Snimanje popularne serije Igre Prijestolja

Despite yesterday’s storm damage, filming at Kaštel Gomilica for Game of Thrones season 5 rolled on today. Crew members and a number of extras in costume were spotted and photographed on set. The images are provided by Jutarniji list.

Unmarked season 5 spoilers and more pics below the cut.

K. Gomilica, 02.09.2014 - Snimanje popularne serije Igre Prijestolja

K. Gomilica, 02.09.2014 - Snimanje popularne serije Igre Prijestolja

K. Gomilica, 02.09.2014 - Snimanje popularne serije Igre Prijestolja

K. Gomilica, 02.09.2014 - Snimanje popularne serije Igre Prijestolja

K. Gomilica, 02.09.2014 - Snimanje popularne serije Igre Prijestolja

K. Gomilica, 02.09.2014 - Snimanje popularne serije Igre Prijestolja

K. Gomilica, 02.09.2014 - Snimanje popularne serije Igre Prijestolja

K. Gomilica, 02.09.2014 - Snimanje popularne serije Igre Prijestolja

Embassy Films Croatia posted an Instagram image of producers David Benioff and Dan Weiss, stating that Wolf Unit is back filming in King’s Landing.

The slow trickle of news concerning Cersei’s Walk continues.

We already knew that the cathedral in question and the immediate surrounding area were off-limits for filming, but we now have some clarity on the situation. Dubrovnik News reports that after the Croatian Film Commission put pressure on Dubrovnik City Council, it was agreed that the scene could be filmed in the city on the condition that shooting took place at a minimum of 100 meters from the cathedral. This still allows for the cathedral to be seen in the background of some shots, if necessary.

In addition, a set (at an as-yet undisclosed location) will be constructed to substitute for the entrance to the cathedral. We recently reported on the rumors that elements of the Walk could be filmed on Lokrum island. It may be that this is where the set in question is being/will be constructed.

According to our sources, a casting call has recently gone out to female actresses and models. The candidate must be comfortable with the following:

  • Full frontal nudity/and from behind
  • Cutting hair, if longer, to shoulder length
  • Job includes walking nude in front of 500 extras who would be cheering and pelting foodstuffs (character has been shunned from community)

It should be noted that this body double will not be used for the entirety of the walk.

Finally, our sources also tell us that costume fittings for extras have begun in Dubrovnik. The costumes in question are funereal in nature. There is no confirmation as yet, but it would appear that they will be used for Tywin’s funeral scene.

Cian: This is a lot to take in at once. The main thing to remember when discussing Lena’s double is that she will not be replacing Lena in the filming of the scene, but instead merely doing the usual substituting work that body doubles tend to do.

123 responses

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    1. According to our sources, a casting call has recently gone out to female actresses and models. The candidate must be comfortable with the following:

      Full frontal nudity/and from behind
      Cutting hair, if longer, to shoulder length
      Job includes walking nude in front of 500 extras who would be cheering and pelting foodstuffs (character has been shunned from community)

      I don’t think you could pay me enough. Then again, it depends on how much of a starving actress I was. How much would be the pay for something like this, she asked curiously?

        Quote  Reply

    2. Reinier:
      Love the distinct clothes and hairstyle for Braavos.

      I was just thinking how much I love the hair.

      As for Cersei,

      if they’re specifying shoulder-length hair, it sounds like maybe, instead of shaving Cersei’s head, they’re just going to cut the long golden mane. I’d prefer they shave her head, since it’s more extreme, but to cut it to shoulder length still means she won’t have any hair behind which to hide part of her body.

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    3. Lord Hugh Ryvenholt,

      The body double will likely be used for shots where they don’t need Lena. For example if they’re doing an angle from behind they can use a double as you won’t see her face anyways. And with standing in front of 500 strangers (plus crew) fully nude I assume they won’t use her more than needed.

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    4. The body double is almost definitely for extraneous shots that would barely benefit from using Lena at all – overheads, long shots, etc.

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    5. D’Arcy:
      The body double is almost definitely for extraneous shots that would barely benefit from using Lena at all – overheads, long shots, etc.

      Not to mention all the stand-in work

      which I’m sure will require full nudity.

      Forgive me if I sometimes use spoiler tags when they’re not absolutely necessary. I’m just trying to err on the side of caution.

        Quote  Reply

    6. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Don’t think so, if they wanted to use the double’s actual hair they would have specified that they must be blonde or willing to dye their hair. Seems to me that shoulder length hair is more fitting for wigs or bald caps.

        Quote  Reply

    7. hmmm its interesting that with the body double specifications, nothing is said about the type of body. in the books, cersei now has flaws (stretch marks, her boobs aren’t perfect and perky etc etc)…so i’ve just been curious whether they’ll maybe make lena’s body look a little more haggard with makeup etc

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    8. jentario:
      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Don’t think so, if they wanted to use the double’s actual hair they would have specified that they must be blonde or willing to dye their hair. Seems to me that shoulder length hair is more fitting for wigs or bald caps.

      Wigs are strange. They’re easier with very short hair, or very long hair (where you can just wrap it around the head and make it very flat), while still giving something for the pins to hold on to, at least in my experience. That said, I’m no wig expert. I’ve only had to wear them a few times, only for stage, which is much more forgiving than on-camera, and never a bald cap.

      You have a great point about the lack of specifying color, or being willing to dye it.
      I really hope you’re right!

        Quote  Reply

    9. aurane waters,

      The dresses fitting tighter, as well. That part really struck me as a reader. I agree about the hair being shorter will facilitate a wig/skull cap.

      Also love the Bravosi style! The braids, the colors and textiles are fantastic.

        Quote  Reply

    10. I imagine Lena will still do the majority of the scene as she was saying only the other season that when she goes nude it will have more impact as she’s remained (an dbeen quite insistent on being) clothed until now. Was an interesting point as I think it does visually indicate vulnerability or lack of power as she’s gone from being powerful to very vulnerable (almost mirrors Dany’s story who went from being vulnerable to powerful and has kept her kit on a lot more!). Plus Lena’s been naked on film before and I’m sure she’d be up for it as it’s actually quite significant to the scene and not just tittilation. I imagine the body double would be for any reshoots or different angles. On the hair. I think it needs to be changed to some degree and shortened possibly but I don’t think it’s essential to shave her bald.

        Quote  Reply

    11. jentario:
      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      If she is to wear a bald cap, wouldn’t long hair make her (fake) head look all bubbly and large?

      Maybe Lena naturally has a bubbly and large head. 😉

      The shortest wig I ever wore was a bob-cut. For me, the pin-curl technique and the braiding technique made it look too lumpy, which is why I went with the wrapping. Again, though, I’m not expert, and a bald cap on camera is very different from a bob-cut on stage. These wig folks are experts, and if they want someone with shoulder length hair, they know what to do with it to make it look right.

        Quote  Reply

    12. Still sounds strange to me though, I mean body-doubles work when they’re wearing clothes, but in a full naked body, really? Either they find a very similar body to lena or Idk..

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    13. Too many fans think the walk will begin the domino effect of the prophecy for Cersei, I tend to believe the prophecy won’t happen, because it’s too obvious, there has to be a catch or part of it won’t happen. GRRM won’t do what fans expect.

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    14. Yeah, I think the body double will only be used for complicated shots that involve handling large numbers of extras, where they might need reshoots, ect. Stuff they’ll need to be flexible with filming, as opposed to the constraints involved with an actor who has many scenes. We will get nude Lena.

        Quote  Reply

    15. I think it’s likely that the body double would be used for some shots from the rear. Lena has a lot of tattoos on her back which would require extensive time in the makeup chair, extensive editing, or both.

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    16. Not going to be able to watch The Walk scene anyway. It was so disturbing and upsetting to read that I can’t even imagine filming it or watching it. Most traumatic moment in the books for me, by far.

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    17. I’m glad that they worked around the situation with the Croatian puritans. I’d expect that for a Gorgoroth concert with naked crucified models, but not for some nudity.

      BTW, for past seasons, by which point of the year are the last casting announcements coming? November? December?

        Quote  Reply

    18. I wish they would reconsider and go bald instead (for both Cersei’s scene and a certain upcoming Dany scene).

      But since they are going with hair, will the curtain match the merkin?

        Quote  Reply

    19. Mormont:
      Renly’s Peach,

      David Benioff is hot!

      On a related note when did Dan Weiss get chest

      I imagine when they write David is sitting at the computer typing while Dan is bench pressing. I bet David reads what he wrote out loud and Dan is all like, “Yea Bro, that sounds good. Hey can you put my name on there too?”

        Quote  Reply

    20. Renly’s Peach,

      I was just thinking he always looks like he’s taking a poo. 🙂

      Oh and on the subject of the body double I definitely agree it’s because of Lena’s tattoos. That would be a hell of a lot of time in the makeup trailer to cover those up for every single frame.

        Quote  Reply

    21. Lena is badass actress and I would think she’d be all for shaving her pate. Currently, her hair is pixie short. She wouldn’t have much to loose. I do see a body double then having to wear a bald cap. Casting can change particulars after they have their girl, eg, shorter hair for cap.

        Quote  Reply

    22. I wore bald caps and shoulder length hair in my experience, is the longest you can have for that, even with that length its tricky. Then again, hardcore specialists work in GoT crew

      I am also confused about the announcement, you would think they would specify the body type for that

        Quote  Reply

    23. nym sand,

      That would have been totally stunning had they gone that way for the fiery birthing/hatching scene, but the scene was amazing anyway. Evidently, the show Targs have fire-resistant platinum locks. Still,

      Drogon huffing and puffing Dany’s hair away before she rides would be the greatest moment on television, imho.

        Quote  Reply

    24. Greenjones,

      But Waterland sucks though,it’s also 20 years old,300 is good however .

      @Dogs This is a tv show though not an artsy smartsy flick,i think the scene will be powerful however they shoot it .

        Quote  Reply

    25. They are not going have her bald because then they would have to go through the trouble of having all the different types of wigs to show her hair growing back. That was the reason they said they didn’t have Dany bald after the fire pit and dragon hatching.

        Quote  Reply

    26. Greatjon of Slumber,

      Greenjones,

      I thinks it’s very important, for the sexual violence in it, it wouldn’t be the same if she just covered it in the entire walk, because we are also part of that audience in streets judging her and throwing stuff at her, at least that’s how I’ll feel when watching it I Think, It fell so good reading it

        Quote  Reply

    27. ash,

      I saw this casting call pop up a few nights ago on the Facebook page of an acquaintance of mine who does modeling work. The rate was £6K, or a little less than $10K USD. (“Nowhere NEAR enough!” she said, even after people explained it was a GoT job. I agree.)

        Quote  Reply

    28. What is up with the media and nudity in game of thrones? There are show with much more of it, yet it is always got people talk about. Is it because it is a fantasy series or because it is a Emmy nominated show?

        Quote  Reply

    29. I’m thinking bald cap for the chosen winner of the “casting call for models who are cool with dead cats thrown their way!”

      Or am I remembering that wrong…..

        Quote  Reply

    30. prom000,

      It’s because journalists are lazy and they need to either exaggerate or simplify things to come up with content. If they can find an angle on something or a simple way to sum something up, they’ll go with it, baseless or not, because it’s easier for them than coming up with articles that are actually thoughtful. Just like hacky comedians and lousy P.R. people they craft a distorted impression of something and then repeat it over and over until it becomes a sort of consensus. Then they come out with articles going “is ____ too violent?” or “is there too much sex in ____?” So when lazy journalists talk about GoT they don’t go “the show with the great production values and interestingly-realized high fantasy universe” they go “how about them boobs and violence!?” Obviously GoT does contain nudity and violence but they idly boil the show down to JUST those elements. In short they’re scumbags.

      Sorry for the rant. Blame the Crown Royal.

        Quote  Reply

    31. Greenjones:
      prom000,

      It’s because journalists are lazy and they need to either exaggerate or simplify things to come up with content. If they can find an angle on something or a simple way to sum something up, they’ll go with it, baseless or not, because it’s easier for them than coming up with articles that are actually thoughtful. Just like hacky comedians and lousy P.R. people they craft a distorted impression of something and then repeat it over and over until it becomes a sort of consensus. Then they come out with articles going “is ____ too violent?” or “is there too much sex in ____?” So when lazy journalists talk about GoT they don’t go “the show with the great production values and interestingly-realized high fantasy universe” they go “how about them boobs and violence!?” Obviously GoT does contain nudity and violence but they idly boil the show down to JUST those elements. In short they’re scumbags.

      Sorry for the rant. Blame the Crown Royal.

      This is so true, and not just about TV shows

        Quote  Reply

    32. jentario,

      With the amount of time they’ve put into shooting this river stuff it really must be a complex setpiece. Meaning the Sorrows. The Bridge of Dream anyone?
      (I still have no idea how they passed that bridge twice. How they hell did that happen? Scary!).

      jentario,

      I try to avoid commenting so harshly about things but, like I said, blame the rye.

        Quote  Reply

    33. Greenjones,

      If last season is anything to go by, we could be sure that the Sorrows are in until it just doesn’t happen when the show airs. But I do hope it’s the Sorrows, or at least that they’re filming general Rhoyne scenes and a certain someone is on a different boat that they don’t want us to see.

        Quote  Reply

    34. Greenjones,

      No problem. Yes forgot about the lazyness.
      I guess it goes like this: it is fantasy so it is for kids/people to refuse to grow up so the nudity is there to get young mens/boys to watch it. Ignore everything else.
      Would happen to a grown up scifi show too. In their minds adult and scifi/fantasy dont mix.
      Most people are smarter then that thought.

        Quote  Reply

    35. ash,

      Some people specialize in doing that kind of work , a lot of people see no big deal in walking about infront of a lot of people nekkid , apparently they can pull in around $500 – $800 dollars per day depending on how much is on view etc so it certainly beats most jobs.

        Quote  Reply

    36. MuchAndMore,

      £6k for essentially getting naked in front of strangers?! That is a lot of money, especially for people who aren’t hung up on nudity. I’ve got friends who are life models who get paid a lot less than that! Although it’s a traumatic scene in the books/show, I imagine filming it would be quite fun! The initial social awkwardness of a naked person being the focus of all that attention would soon subside and I’d imagine all the cast and crew would be professional during the shoot and even have a good giggle when they yell cut and the torrent of abuse/throwing stuff stops abruptly!

        Quote  Reply

    37. jentario:
      Greenjones,

      If last season is anything to go by, we could be sure that the Sorrows are in until it just doesn’t happen when the show airs. But I do hope it’s the Sorrows, or at least that they’re filming general Rhoyne scenes and a certain someone is on a different boat that they don’t want us to see.

      I dont know… Jorah shouldnt be in this place, normally. Except if they change timelines, alter storylines… I dont think the Griffs will be on the boat-river journey.

      Either we’ll meet them at Pentos / Volantis (depending on where Tyrion and Varys head first) either later down the season when / if the focus comes back on Varys & Illyrio. I wouldnt mind if the show skips Tyrion outwitting them in guessing their real identities.

      My bet if they’re in is they will be introduced around episode 6 when we catch back on Varys and Illyrio meeting the Golden Company. Could make a good scene.

        Quote  Reply

    38. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I absolutely agree. £6k for a day of work is nothing to sneeze at and you going to work on freaking GoT, maybe the hottest shit on TV right now. Something like that will probably help your career, regardless of what you did.
      And if you only a body double the TV viewers won’t even see your face. I know that that is subjective, but some people make way to much fuss about nudity, imo.

        Quote  Reply

    39. All these news about the problems of filming The Walk already spoiled a couple of my partly-Unsullied friends (they read the books until ASoS).

      There were a couple of mainstream media sites here in Brazil which all but stated in their headlines what the scene is about. They mention public nudity as a form of punishment and show a BIG photo of Cersei.

      It kind of sucks, really.

        Quote  Reply

    40. smitzzz,

      Oh I am sure you are right. Except in this case its not just being naked. Its getting stuff thrown at you and hundreds of people screaming at you. Like I said, couldn’t pay me enough. But Im sure they will find more than a few who would.

        Quote  Reply

    41. Seriano,

      The media sucks. It prefers to shove controversial titles and pictures in your face for clicks than trying to warn for spoilers. Thankfully, most people will forget about this by the time the season airs.

        Quote  Reply

    42. Arkash,

      Yeah, the Griffs are probably cut. I liked those Tyrion chapters, but I definitely understand why D&D would want to cut them. The whole thing is a huge mess in the books. Still clinging to hopes of Manderly, a Jeyne Poole replacement and Euron being included, though.

        Quote  Reply

    43. Lord Hugh Ryvenholt,

      Ok, understood, but your original comment came across a bit differently, like it was “I can’t wait to see her naked” kind of thing, when it’s not meant to be sexy or alluring, but a public shaming.

        Quote  Reply

    44. jentario,

      jentario: Still clinging to hopes of Manderly, a Jeyne Poole replacement and Euron being included, though.

      The middle one still makes sense given the attention they’ve given to finding Bran or Rickon. It may just be an extra, though, and they won’t call her Jeyne Poole. I still think Manderly should be included. Euron’s a tougher call, but at this point, one Greyjoy uncle is enough for me.

        Quote  Reply

    45. Greatjon of Slumber,

      Frankly, the only reason I mentioned Jeyne Poole is because the other name the character has is a spoiler and I can’t bother with the tags. It definitely won’t be Jeyne Poole in the show, more likely “Northern Girl #26”. But she has to have some acting chops for the role, so it’s more than an extra. They’ll probably create some name for her.

        Quote  Reply

    46. I think people would be interested to know that Hodor’s actor, Nairn, has stated in an Australian interview that, “We have a season off and we have a year’s hiatus, solely because I imagine our storyline is up to the end of the books”.

      So, Bran, Hodor, Meera, Bloodraven and Leaf won’t be in Season 5 of Game of Thrones.

      Source: https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/24890664/actor-kristian-nairn-reveals-the-other-side-of-hodor-on-game-of-thrones-themed-dj-tour/

        Quote  Reply

    47. Way to go Huffington Post, you’re the worst shit in the seven kingdoms. Anyone who has liked the GoT Facebook page got a big spoiler in the headline, with a picture of the character involved courtesy of the Huff Po. Seriously pathetic click-bait journalism.

        Quote  Reply

    48. JG:
      I think people would be interested to know that Hodor’s actor, Nairn, has stated in an Australian interview that, “We have a season off and we have a year’s hiatus, solely because I imagine our storyline is up to the end of the books”.

      So, Bran, Hodor, Meera, Bloodraven and Leaf won’t be in Season 5 of Game of Thrones.

      Source: https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/24890664/actor-kristian-nairn-reveals-the-other-side-of-hodor-on-game-of-thrones-themed-dj-tour/

      Weren’t there pictures of Kristian Nairn hanging out with Finn Jones and Sophie Turner in Belfast, as cast members returned to start filming? Makes no sense Bran and company wouldn’t even appear in Season 5; that storyline will have major implications for endgame.

        Quote  Reply

    49. Greatjon of Slumber,

      Well what I said was, “will we see Lena’s teats or what?” Ok maybe the way I said it was a little sharp and you misunderstood the point lol… I was just confused why would they use a naked body double, body doubles with clothes on, you can easily recognize as the actress herself, but naked it’s a different story, maybe it will only be long distance shots Idk..

        Quote  Reply

    50. Morgan,

      This does seem indeed to be a bit vague. He did have material in ADwD that can be filmed. I can see how he’d show up in just 4-5 episodes, but I think he’ll be there. (Hodor might truly have less to do.)

        Quote  Reply

    51. Greatjon of Slumber,

      Yeah, I could see Hodor not really having anything to do but Meera and Bran definitely could have a few scenes, they could delve into the greenseeing aspect a bit more. I think it would be a mistake to completely drop them from season 5.

        Quote  Reply

    52. Would be more than happy if Bran and co took a bit of a backseat this season. Hopefully it’ll be like Jaime in Season 2 or Yara last season. Give them enough to know they’re still there but focus on the storylines that need it more.

        Quote  Reply

    53. JG,

      Well, either Kristian Nairn really fucked up here or he phrased something very poorly. This is not something you drop casually at the end of an interview with a random news site. If this is true, I hope he doesn’t get into trouble for leaking it.

        Quote  Reply

    54. Morgan,

      Mistake or not, “We have a season off and we have a year’s hiatus” does indicate it’s about the storyline as a whole. And it’s the most up-to-date news.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Morgan,
      Dutch maester,
      Abyss,
      TheTouchOfFrost,
      After the silly Harryhausen/PotC skeletons, Jojen stabbing disrespect, CotF WtF(?), and BR eye/root debacle in “The Children”, I would agree that a year off would be good for them to reassess their Bran situation. I’m still taken aback by the lack of creativity/originality with that “rushed” scene. Oh well.

      Then again, Nairn was probably misquoted.

        Quote  Reply

    56. Re nudity, at the risk of starting a debate which I’m sure has been endlessly discussed and has no satisfactory answer as everyone sees things differently – this programme does have a lot more nudity than most others, which will obviously attract a lot of attention. Some of the negative coverage (hmm apt choice of words there) is from people who just object to nudity on screen anyway, so temporarily ignoring them, my personal complaint would be that some of it certainly seems gratuitous. Apparently studies have shown that – forgive the massive generalisation here – women, of which I am one, are far more offended by gratuitous nudity and violence than men. There are plenty of sexual scenes which don’t bother me at all but if you look at the programme overall, the nudity ratio for female to male is vastly skewed towards the former.

      Yes the GOT world is one in which women are very much second class citizens, are often not in a position to say no, and using their sexuality is a way to better themselves, get out of dangerous situations etc. And yes I’m sure that most of the scenes in brothels in the programme are also in brothels in the book. For me most of it is just well, that’s just how that world is, but sometimes you get a scene where the men are all clothed and the women aren’t for no apparent reason, the male clients of these brothels do seem very shy about their bodies, or one where it’s just a straight up why the hell are there topless women in this because there is apparently absolutely no need for it at all (when Davos gave Sallador (sp?) his money in series 4, that may well have been in a brothel in the books, but there was no apparent need for it to be to a non-reader like me, they could have been anywhere.)

      It’s not so much that there is at least a certain amount of nudity which just seems there for the sake of it, but that it’s about 95% female which irks me personally, but that’s just my opinion. If you’re going to have people naked when they don’t really need to be, at least be more equal opportunities about it.

      On a side note, if the person next door doesn’t stop messing about on their bloody piano soon I may have to go all Red Wedding on them :0(

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    57. Lulu’s Mum:

      It’s a bit odd to bring up the whole nudity issue in a post about the Walk, which has nothing gratuitious about it.

      Anyway, every time someone complains about this in GoT, i think of True Blood. The ratio of nudity screentime by gender was clearly skewed towards the female, yet it was widely regarded as a show geared toward the female demo. I guess having a fair share here and there of Alexander Skarsgaard, Ryan Kwanten and Joe Manganiello’s chiseled torsos & buttocks (no full frontal nudity) is more than enough to keep the ladies happy. They didn’t need more eye candy.

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    58. Lulu’s Mum,

      While I don’t want to cause any controversy either, I agree. The US culture seems to feel that female nudity is okay because it’s constantly viewing women from the “male gaze” anyway–the fact that it makes many women uncomfortable (just like getting catcalls thrown at you while we’re walking down the street–we don’t exist just to be looked at and particularly not in the process of living our daily lives or while being entertained–our gaze should matter too). The presentation of male nudity is not welcomed and in particular, their frontal nudity, is deemed discomfiting by Hollywood.

      Let’s take a hypothetical example of the opposite situation. If GRRM had written about an Amazonian society where the “female gaze” was the standard, would we see more nude males than females? I would think it SHOULD be shot that way but knowing Hollywood, I don’t think it WOULD be. And I’m sure there are many films that present Amazons from the “male gaze” that would prove my point.

      Ultimately though, it is what it is. I don’t think less of D&D for shooting it the way they do. They are as much a product of our culture as any other male regardless of how enlightened they may seem in interviews. It’s a VERY hard thing to recognize ones biases, particular the deep subconcious ones–like “white privilege”–it’s VERY difficult to understand and see it in action in one’s own life (NOTE: I don’t want to get into an argument about whether white privilege does or does not exist. I’m simply using the concept of it to explain how something can be in plain sight for one group but be invisible to another group in the same society.)

      If they are doing it on purpose, then I would like to think they are using the traditional “male gaze” to portray the extreme patriarchal and misogynistic nature of the ASAIOF cultures more accurately. Now HBO executives, they’re all for the cha-ching that bewbs bring. I have no doubt about it, but in regards to D&D I think their intentions are higher minded than that. I admit that this may be a naive perspective on my part.

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    59. Fjordgazer,

      I guess having a fair share here and there of Alexander Skarsgaard, Ryan Kwanten and Joe Manganiello’s chiseled torsos & buttocks (no full frontal nudity) is more than enough to keep the ladies happy. They didn’t need more eye candy.

      Women in the US are no less likely to accept the “male gaze” as being the standard than the men are. It’s hard to overcome and really recognize what’s going on with such deep subconscious trends of something so incredibly ubiquitous. And even if women, like myself do recognize the bias, we’re in no position of power to actually change things. To do that I’d have to be the head of a major cable channel or Hollywood studio or production company, etc. And how many women are in those positions AND recognize the bias AND want to do anything about it? That’s why we talk about it online because it’s one of the few outlets where we can express ourselves on this issue. It may not make a difference right now but it might make more males aware of the situation. That’s how social change works–one person becoming more aware and enlightened at a time (sociologically speaking).

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    60. Dame Pasty:

      Well, you say that the amount of male nudity accepted by the US female audience is the result of conditioning. I say, they’re happy with what they get, and more flaccid penises (or more screentime for chiseled buttocks and torsos) wouldn’t matter much to them, deep down. Let’s agree to disagree.

      Mind you, there are 2 cable series right now run by (supposedly progressive thinking) women: Girls and Orange is the new black. I don’t watch them, but AFAIK, the ratio favors female nudity, again (not much of an option for the latter, since it’s about a women’s prison).

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    61. Oh, and just to set the record straight, Skarsgaard indeed did ONE full frontal scene. That ties True Blood with GoT and the wine salesman in Vaes Dothrak. Yay!

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    62. Nairn’s supposed comments are a little disconcerting. If he didn’t use the word “hiatus”, I wouldn’t be so concerned. I could see him only having a couple days of shooting, as the focus with Bran could just be on his and BR’s “teaching”… and Hodor, and sadly, Meera, may not be needed as much right away. But to end their season 4 story like they did and not pick that right back up would be terrible, IMO.
      What a clusterfuck. I hope I’m not jumping to conclusions.
      Nairn did just start his tour, no?
      I think they have a perfect opportunity to mirror Bran, Sansa’s, and Arya’s various “training” programs in the same season… and also, to increase wolf dreams and WWW visions (aka flashbacks) at the same time.
      Fuck. I hope it’s not true.

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    63. sarahtyler,

      Yeah i like to agree with what everyone says. I hate the use of Body Doubles but Lena has been saying for years she is ready for this one and this is probably / hopefully just for stuff like tattoos / total shots etc. Most actors actually have stand ins (remember Sansa’s on the pier in S3?). I am confident most of it will just be Lena.
      If not they are really dropping the ball. I really really doubt Lena would get second thoughts especially with her past record of doing nudity.

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    64. Yes, they’re conditioned to be happy with what they get. I wasn’t disagreeing with you there. A dog can be conditioned to like canned Alpo but if they ever experience steak, they finally recognize the difference and prefer the real meat. And your comment about “what matters deep down to women” is far too sweeping and unsupported to be taken seriously. And two WHOLE shows?! That’s bound to turn the tide! (sorry could not help sarcasm). As I said, women would have to be in power AND they’d have to recognize the bias AND they’d have to reject the standard “male gaze”, which they are not conditioned to do. Yes, let’s agree to disagree.

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    65. Everyone has their own views and opinions, but I find the whole emphasis on the “male gaze” to be incredibly overplayed, and I don’t mean that as any offense to you, Dame Pasty. Most of my feelings about it is due to a Lit Crit professor I had who wanted to reduce everything we read down to “male gaze,” “fractured gaze,” misogyny, homosexual undertones, or some combination thereof.

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    66. Fjordgazer,

      I was posting as a kind of reply to Prom000 and the mini discussion about why journalists are critical of nudity in the programme about a third of the way down the thread. I only skim read what they wrote so may have gone off on a bit of a tangent, but it was just a well this is how some people feel about it, you may not have considered this angle type comment. Ultimately this is the sort of topic, like politics and religion, that everyone has different, equally valid, and often very strongly held views on. All you can do is say well this is how I feel about it. I certainly hope they don’t include any bewbs just for the sake of it as that would cheapen the programme for me.
      I know the walk isn’t remotely sexual and think it will be all the more powerful for the fact that we haven’t seen Cersei in anything revealing. In this case nudity, or certainly the implication of it, is absolutely essential

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    67. I will absolutely avoid to turn this into a discussion about my views on feminism, but i’ll state that i agree completely with Nymeria Warrior Queen’s comment.

      That’s it, i turn the page. There will be plenty of time devoted to jibber-jabber about nudity issues once the season starts next year.

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    68. There are a couple of typos in my last post but I’m doing this on a touch screen tablet and it’s practically impossible to edit anything longer than the comment box size so they’ll have to stay. On the plus side piano man has shut up so I won’t be watching series 5 from prison :0)

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    69. Nymeria Warrior Queen,
      I have to do a lot of proof reading and layout type stuff for my job so although they leap off the page at me, I’m sure other people don’t even notice. Mind you, I’m in the UK so conversing with people who speak American (or any other version of) English is quite strange. Obviously you hear it a lot in programmes, films etc but it’s different seeing it written down and noticing the subtle differences :0)

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    70. I think , although female nudity undoubtably proves attractive to some viewers, some shows ( GoT is one IMO) use it more as a story-telling device. There’s only been a couple of times I’ve been watching it and thought ‘is this really necessary’. I think D&D use nudity as a visual aid for power (which unfortunately women don’t generally have in this fantasy world). This is an effective device for me as I’ve already mentioned with the Cersei clothed to unclothed diminishing of her power and Dany’s reversal as she gains more power. Although this often used by whores (male and female), we also see it present in the shamed wine salesman. To further the power theory, characters often get naked in an act of submission/seduction ( Margery and Daario).
      Although there’s a demographic of ignorant misogyny ( driven more by base desires than maliciousness IMO) there is also a growing demographic of ignorant misandry where women treat men as sexual objects much the way men have done to women over the years. I find that this appears to be more tolerated. Possbily due to misjudged opinion of ‘getting even/equality’ or because it’s a new/growing phenomenon. Ultimately, I think as long as there is sexual desire in the world then there will be people who can’t look beyond that. Just have to leave them to it and concentrate on spending your time with those people who have progressed beyond that rather simplistic thinking.

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    71. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Wow. Way to forgive misogyny. It’s not about hate???????????? Really? Really really??? But those evil male haters, NOTHING is worst then them. men just want sex:(.

      (Thanks for reminding me that 96% of GoT fans are assholes)

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    72. Dame Pasty,
      “The US culture seems to feel that female nudity is okay because it’s constantly viewing women from the “male gaze””

      You must not be very familiar with European or Latin American culture if you believe this is only an American thing. The issue is to assume men and women are the same and the sexual desires are the same and women are being robbed of their desire to look at mens penises because of some patriarchal society. Men and woman’s sexuality is different, there is no female equivalent to the “male gaze”. If woman had the same desire to look at naked men that men do women then there would be numerous things marketed to them that feature naked men but they don’t. There issue is simple supply and demand, society has a fondness for feminine beauty and sex appeal, this is why male models and porn stars make a fraction of what females ones do. And when I say society has a fondness for feminine beauty and sex appeal, I don’t just mean straight men, it has been proven that provocative images of women on women’s magazine sell better than ones of men, and it also explains why so many movies and TV shows marketed to woman also feature mostly naked women(sex in the city, orange is the new black, etc.)
      The fact is that there is no market for it other than gay men. Playgirl magazine was bought almost exclusively by gay men and there are numerous websites dedicated to showing naked men and they are viewed almost exclusively by gay men. Do you ever wonder why erotic and sexually charged novels are all marketed and bought by women and not men, again it highlights the difference between male and female sexuality. Men have no interest in reading erotic novels because we can’t see any ass or tits in a novel. I’m not denying female sexuality, I’m just saying it is different than mens. There is even science to back this up but one doesn’t need science to come to this conclusion because it is very obvious that women don’t have the same lust for male bodies that men do for woman’s. Women can appreciate male beauty or provocative images of men but explicit nude type imagery of men have no real interest to women and women have shown no interest in this type of imagery all throughout history.

      The call for more naked men in the media doesn’t satisfy the female gaze, it satisfies political correctness. The criticism of the “male gaze” is just part of the rising political correctness/social justice trend in analyzing the media and entertainment. Stanley Kubrick is considered one of the greatest filmmakers of all time and his films are filled with the so called “male gaze” as were many of other great filmmakers.
      Under today’s standard we would have write off many of the great movies and filmmakers as sexist.

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    73. Lulu’s Mum:
      Nymeria Warrior Queen,
      I have to do a lot of proof reading and layout type stuff for my job so although they leap off the page at me, I’m sure other people don’t even notice. Mind you, I’m in the UK so conversing with people who speak American (or any other version of) English is quite strange. Obviously you hear it a lot in programmes, films etc but it’s different seeing it written down and noticing the subtle differences :0)

      It’s certainly interesting to notice how spelling differs depending on which version of English is being written.

      As far as “The Walk” goes,

      when I read it, at the beginning I thought, wow, with all the atrocities in which she’s been involved, this almost seems like a mild punishment (yes, I now she wasn’t being punished for most of her atrocities, but as a reader I was thinking of them). By the time I got to the end of it, I was almost sick to my stomach, and was as close to feeling for Cersei as I’ve ever been. I thought it was some great writing, and I can’t wait to see it brought to life. It will be brutal as hell to watch, especially in the deft hands of Lena, but it should be phenomenal.)

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    74. Lisa,

      Calm yourself down and read it again and you’ll realise that I have neither justified misogyny nor criticised misandry (men-haters). Just discussed aspects of both in culture. Whereas your ‘men just want sex :(‘ comment is a massive generalisation that isn’t true and could be seen as being very offensive.
      If you want to discuss this by all means let’s discuss but name-calling like a child is not called for. On which note, if you think 96% of GoT fans are assholes then this probably isn’t the best place for you!

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    75. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Interesting point you make about misandry, because

      I think TV Olenna is a bit of a misandrist. (I haven’t read the other novels after A Game Of Thrones, so I have no comment on book Olenna.) While not exactly a hater, I get the impression she has no regard or respect for men as people in general. You know her opinion of her own son and how she treats him. She doesn’t care for her late husband – he was a means to an end, no more, no less. And she seems to enjoy Brienne’s victory over Loras in the melee a little too much, actually pleased that Loras lost and getting his ass kicked so badly. She doesn’t give her grandson any credit for anything. And Olenna’s scene with Margaery where she alludes to killing Joffrey shows Margaery is quite naïve about her grandmother and how calculating she is. Given how Olenna uses Margaery and what she teaches her, Olenna doesn’t have much regard for Margaery either. I’m sure if things don’t go well with her, Olenna would sell out Margaery in a heartbeat when she’s no longer useful for the Tyrell family purposes. (And she had no qualms with involving and implicating Sansa in Joffrey’s death.)

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    76. Flora Linden,

      Misandrist? Nah, QoT is just an asshole who doesn’t suffer fools. In the TV show we see more of her, and it’s pretty clear she has respect for Varys and Tywin, and not complete disdain for Tyrion. It just so happens that the male members of her family happen to be fools (though in book!verse she never has a bad word to say about Willas or Garland, IIRC). I guess you could say she a misanthropist, meaning she hates most of humanity. But I read her as more playful than that. The only person she’s taken violent action against was truly a monster and worthy of hatred.

      In regards to Margaery… I think both the book and the show make it abundantly clear that Olenna is grooming Marg to rule. I still don’t agree with the show interpretation that Margaery was in the dark about the Purple Wedding. It just doesn’t make sense assuming the poison was either in the pie or the drink not to warn her. Besides, if Olenna isn’t on her family’s side, who do you imagine she is working for? She would never sell out a family member. She obviously didn’t care one whit about throwing Sansa and Tyrion under the bus, of course.

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    77. Flora Linden,
      Queenofthrones

      Hard to judge really as she does seem to only like people for what they can do for her legacy. It’s a scary thought of what could have happened if she had married Tywin! Both of them have little regard for anyone, including their own family, and their own ambition is more important than anything. Cersei seems to have developed a deep dislike/distrust of men with only her own children proving the exception ( I believe she no longer cares for Jaime and only what he can do for her). The only other hints of Misandry are from the Sand Snakes ( MiSandry Snakes?!) and Arianne. It’s hard to tell though as Arianne is very mission orinetated and The Sand Snakes aren’t anywhere near fleshed out enough to really know ( If you asked me to describe them then in all honesty, all I could tell you is their names and that Obara has a a stick up her arse!).

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    78. Queenofthrones,

      Good point about Olenna being a misanthrope – that’s probably a better description of who she is. She doesn’t like people in general but deals with them because they can’t be avoided, heh. Still, I get the impression she has an inherent bias against men, family fools or not. Regardless, I’ve grown to dislike her; she may turn out to be more monstrous than even Tywin.

      Regarding Margaery, I respectfully disagree. I really do think (at this point) that Margaery is quite naïve (in her own way), given that much of what she’s been taught (brainwashed?) has been from grandma dearest. Margaery is a tool, nothing more, to help Olenna hold on to as much power as possible. Olenna may not even care for the Tyrell legacy, maybe she’s only in it for herself. (She’s a Redwyne who married into to Tyrell family, after all.)

      Just my opinion, of course. It’s all good. 🙂

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    79. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Yikes at the thought of Tywin and Olenna married. I actually think Tywin may not have lasted long if that had happened. . . 😉

      Cersei’s resentments are legitimate – her beef is mostly against the system. Unlike Olenna, I don’t think Cersei inherently dislikes/hates men, just the patriarchal society that she feels leaves her no choice but to do what she does.

      As for the Sand Snakes, I’d say no to the misandry question, but we’ll find out next season.

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    80. Prom000
      Sorry I was just trying to demonstrate that I wasn’t a completely mad rambling woman and was being at least a little relevant to what someone else had said. Yours was the first post I could find that mentioned nudity so you got named. That’s the thing I always forget about the internet, being old enough to clearly remember the dark days before it existed, that everyone else can, and will, join in.

      Nymera Warrior Queen
      Yeah definitely the spelling. Sometimes I try and guess where people are from from the way they write. Although most people who learn another language and don’t live in a place where it’s commonly spoken often learn it very formally and don’t pick up bad habits. So they end up being for more grammatically correct than the native speakers and that spoils my fun! Lots of people with English as a second language write like Shakespeare in comparison with those of us who use it all the time.

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    81. JamesL,
      What little experience I have with European and Latin American media is from the traveling I have done overseas. But that’s why I limited my statements to the US, not wanting to claim expertise in other parts of the world that I do not possess.

      If woman had the same desire to look at naked men that men do women then there would be numerous things marketed to them that feature naked men but they don’t.

      And this statement is based on a HUGE assumption. That if there was a call or need for something among a subgroup of the population the market would obviously recognize it and provide it. I can give you many examples of a need or call existing where the economic market does not give a crap about and will never market towards that need until there is some external push for it. Modern history is FULL of this kind of thing and many of the examples are actually gender related. I could literally write a book about it.

      I think the mention of the difference between men and women in regards their “gaze” preference and the romance novel market is an excellent example of what we should be talking about. That difference in preference is not proof that there is no “female gaze” at all, which is your assertion. In fact, it’s simply proof that their “gaze” is different. Many studies of female sexuality and porn viewing habits indicate that women are more comfortable with and turned on by videos where there are either only men or there is a more balanced mix of women and men (and the videos are less degrading to the women). So your magazine cover example is the perfect example of this. Women do like to look at other women but to assume that they don’t want to look at men as well doesn’t follow. The results of studies are VERY clear that women are uncomfortable with films and shows that have mostly nude women and include any kind of subjugation and degradation (which 99.9% of porn does and far too many modern films and cable shows do). So the “female gaze” does exist but simply isn’t taken into consideration by the powers that be in the Entertainment and marketing industry.

      Also, I don’t believe “the market” is some wise and unbiased system that responds in any logical fashion to supply and demand. It’s completely the other way around. “The Market” is created by the culture and the culture and human whims drive it. Supply and demand do come into play but only within the confines of the culture. I suspect you believe the opposite (per your reasoning that the “female gaze” doesn’t exist or there would be products for it). Let’s agree to disagree on this because if I am surmising your viewpoint correctly, never the twain shall meet.

      Under today’s standard we would have write off many of the great movies and filmmakers as sexist.

      Many of the great movies and filmmakers were and are products of their culture and certainly some of them were/are sexist (and certainly many are not) but I don’t write off entire swathes of anything that way. I take each book, movie, film and show on it’s own and I take the cultural context into account before I decide whether I think a work of art is or is not sexist. And even if I do deem it sexist, that doesn’t mean it can’t be enjoyed for other reasons and other things learned from it. If I were to reject every work of art or media that was sexist or had sexist overtones, I would never be able to leave the house or use any sort of modern technology whatsoever. IMHO sexism is ubiquitous. You probably don’t agree with that either so again let’s just leave it alone. No harm, no foul.

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    82. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      No worries! I’ve had profs like that too. I might share their political and philosophical viewpoints but viewing everything and then rejecting everything through the same lens can get really old, really fast.

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    83. Lol I think they’re gonna have to ship a girl from the UK to do that body-double nude scene, I totally doubt that they’re gonna get a local girl to strip for them 😀

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    84. Marko:
      Lol I think they’re gonna have to ship a girl from the UK to do that body-double nude scene, I totally doubt that they’re gonna get a local girl to strip for them

      I think you overestimate the prudishness of Spanish girls.

        Quote  Reply

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