Filming finishes for several cast members, and Telltale reveals game release dates

Filming is expected to wrap on Game of Thrones season 5 in December and every day now, more cast members are announcing they’ve finished for the year.

This week, the Sand Snakes concluded shooting, with Jessica Henwick and Keisha Castle-Hughes taking to Twitter to announce it:

New-to-Twitter actor Ian Beattie also tweeted that he’s completed season 5 filming.

Not all the performers on the show can rest though. The shooting for other storylines is going strong, with less than desirous call times for the Red Woman.

In a small bit of filming news, it looks like Game of Thrones has been filming again in the Carrickfergus area. The show has used locations in the town several times, going back to the first season. It’s unknown which site specifically is being used in the area at the moment.

And now for something completely different –

1

Telltale has revealed the release dates of the first episode of their Game of Thrones series.

According to their official Twitter, Episode 1, “Iron From Ice,” will be available on:

12/2 PC/Mac, PS4 SCEA

12/3 Xbox One & 360, PS4 SCEE

12/4 iOS

12/9 PS3 SCEA & SCEE

Telltale’s Twitter notes that Android dates for December are “forthcoming.”

147 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. According to their official Twitter, Episode 1, “Iron From Ice,” will be available on:
      12/2 PC/Mac, PS4 SCEA
      12/3 Xbox One & 360, PS4 SCEE
      12/4 iOS
      12/9 PS3 SCEA & SCEE

      What…it isn’t available on DOS? So I guess that means that GRRM can’t play it. :/

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    2. RosanaZugey:
      Is it a spoiler that Keisha only mentions two Sand Snakes sisters? Aren’t there 3?

      Yeah, her PLUS two. She isn’t including herself in that total when she’s describing her experience.

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    3. Something interesting from reddit. Normally it’s easy to dismiss the my-friend-is-an-extra-and-saw-____ type posts, but this guy was the one who first told us about the Craster’s Keep mutiny ranging and Mormont’s skull business last year, so he’s legit.

      This report is fucking promising. The NK at Hardhome…

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    4. StandOzone,

      I think we’ll get both, given that a Baratheon General will be in a David Nutter episode (so 509 or 510) and the Battle of Ice resolves all of the involved storylines. Hardhome will be in episode eight, I think, since there’s Wildling/Wight featured in ep. 508. That way the decision of what to do about the problem north of the Wall and the problem south of it can converge with the Ides of Marsh in 510.

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    5. Greenjones,

      Yeah, seems like we’d have a few possibilities here.

      1. Baratheon General is in the episode because Stannis is leading the ranging to Hardhome. This seems unlikely, since what would even be happening in the Winterfell plotline if there’s no tension that Stannis is coming?

      2. Stannis has divided his forces, and the general is commanding whatever force went North to Hardhome while Stannis himself marches on Winterfell, or less likely, Deepwood. This seems needlessly complex. Can’t see it happening.

      3. That leaves us only with option three, that there are two Northern battles at the season’s climax, one between Stannis and the Boltons (or again, less likely, Greyjoys), and one between Night’s Watch/Wildlings and the Night’s King at Hardhome. That does open up the question of who’s in charge of the ranging. Jon? Does he somehow escape so that the daggers in the dark stuff can happen afterwards? Or maybe Mance or Tormund? That would kind of explain Tormund’s unexpected promotion to main cast, if he’s commanding a major battle this season.

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    6. Greenjones,

      Mmmm… I don’t think we will see

      Ides of Marsh

      this season. I don’t know what to think about

      the battle of the Ice

      … but include it in S5 will be very rushed. We will have

      Daznak Pit, Walk of Shame, Mercy and Hardhome in the last three episodes!!! I don’t see space for a huge battle after S5E08… but maybe an improved Deepwood Motte

      We will see.

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    7. Afeastfordances,
      StandOzone,

      The reddit poster didn’t say it was a battle scene though nor did he say that any NW would be there (hopefully he can find more out and post it in the near future because he was very vague). It COULD be a battle of course but it could also be something of a smaller scale, like having a known character (I don’t know who exactly) witnessing some terrifying shit from a ship.

      I think the battle we know we’re getting is more likely the Battle of Ice, which could fit just fine into 509 if the episode focuses on just a few storylines (as 309 did for example) or in 510 if it’s an extended episode (like 310 or 410 were).

        Quote  Reply

    8. Greenjones,

      Mhm, I’m a bit confused by his descriptions.

      He doesn’t talk about Wildlings dying in Hardhome, then being resurrected by White Walkers as Wights; he talks about WW dying there, who then get resurrected by the Night’s King (or do I misread something?)

      Maybe he’s wrong and misunderstand his friend… or it’s a spoiler about the WWs’ and Night’s King’s powers…

        Quote  Reply

    9. Messy Justin Massey,

      There’s a good chance his friend didn’t know the mythology as well as him (despite actually featuring in the scene). This poster seems to have legit sources but he does get some things wrong, I remember he called Mormont “Morning” in his post last year.

      thornofhighgarden,

      Thought so. When something’s posted on tinypic and it isn’t sourced at all, chances are its bullshit.

      Good on you for finding where the pic’s from. I’d thought maybe it was of an interview from a previous season of GoT but I guess it was from that Ironclad sequel she did.

      There is no way a behind-the-scenes pic of MF would get out at this point if she is in s5. Strange though, the amount of fake shit people have posted here about LSH. I’ve fallen for some of it myself of course.

        Quote  Reply

    10. Greenjones,

      Okay, that’d make sense, I just found it remarkable that he doesn’t mention any involvement of Wildlings (or NW brothers), but maybe he just doesn’t know it better/more.

      And the NK having resurrection powers as (some) Red Priests/Priestesses actually doesn’t sound sooo far-fetched…

        Quote  Reply

    11. Messy Justin Massey,

      My guess is he meant that wildlings get pushed off a cliff and become wights when they’re in the water, though the poster did seem insistent that they were WW not wights…I dunno, I guess we’ll find out. Though we know that that one fellow will be playing Wildling/Wight in ep. 508, so my guess this is the same sequence and our friend on reddit is somewhat confused about what’s afoot.

      As for NW folks, there doesn’t have to be battle necessarily. There could just be some people witnessing it from a ship or something. It would still be a great ending for 508 if we get some more lovely WW tidbits.

        Quote  Reply

    12. Greenjones,

      It’s pretty pathetic how many people around the internet make efforts to troll people with fake scripts/pics/sighting/aso.
      I, for one, never believe them (because I’m sure to 99,999% she’s cut), but I feel sorry for the people who get their hopes up with all the trolling and bullshitting of others.

        Quote  Reply

    13. Oh, and on-topic (about the article): “Yaaaay!” to Telltale’s first episode already next week, can’t wait *drool*

        Quote  Reply

    14. Jaqen,

      Actually it’s a still from an interview for the Ironclad sequel as proved above but yeah, it isn’t for what folks want it to be for.

      Messy Justin Massey,

      I have NO idea what these trolls stand to gain from faking this sort of stuff. What can possibly be gained from a lie that a) most people won’t believe anyways and b) could very well be proved wrong?

        Quote  Reply

    15. Afeastfordances,

      I wouldn’t call Hardhome a battle. It’d be more of a glimpse deep into the White Walker threat. It won’t take up more than ~5 minutes of screentime and it won’t be nearly as big as the Battle of Ice will be in the show. That said, it’s possible that we only get setup for the Battle of Ice in season 5 (Stannis in war councils with his generals and the Wildlings) rather than seeing the battle itself. But that wouldn’t fit D&D’s MO of wrapping up arcs in every season, regardless of the amount of source material left. I think and hope that both sequences are in the show, in season 5.

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    16. Afeastfordances,

      I’d go with option 3. Can’t see Tormund just sitting around at the Wall when Mance is already captive and will be going down south on a mission for Jon. If they are speeding up the storylines a little then it makes sense for a pact between the Wildings/Nightswatch early in the season to get the ball rolling and the tension building. Of course Jon still needs to be made LC which they’re going to have to do the first episode or two (hopefully not rushed). Would make sense if he’s sent Tormund north to confirm what’s going on in Hardhome, would also fit with the casting of Varymar and I believe there was another Wilding or Wilding leader that they were casting? So Tormund isn’t on his tod! Don’t think it will be a massive battle just a skirmish designed to keep the Whitewalker threat in the viewers mind. This would throw up an interesting dilemma for those of us wondering where Benjen is. Most folks seem to think he was in either Hardhome or Skagos (personally I think he was in the former then the latter as there’s some clues that nod towards it) but if he’s not in Hardhome when the show goes there and with Rickon potentially going to the Last Hearth and not Skagos then it will be interesting to see if/where he might pop up!
      On Lady Stoneheart. At this point it wouldn’t surpise me if she was in but it wouldn’t surprise me if she wasn’t.

        Quote  Reply

    17. jentario:
      Afeastfordances,

      I think the Battle of Ice is very likely to happen (except if they simplify it as hell).

      Theon’s already in his Dance material. They’ve done Moat Cailin so he has only 4 chapters ahead before meeting Stannis. I know they are heavy chapters (and among the best of the saga for me) but I think the show can cover them in 6/7 episodes.

      Then I can see Stannis leaving the Wall by episode 5 and showing up by Winterfell for episode 7. It would leave 3 episodes to cover the battle and I think it’s more than enough.

      So yeah, I’m 99% sure we’ll get the Battle of Ice (or a version of it) this season.

        Quote  Reply

    18. TheTouchOfFrost:

      Would make sense if he’s sent Tormund north to confirm what’s going on in Hardhome…So Tormund isn’t on his tod.
      Of course it makes sense….it’s what is in ADwD, which I hope is explored more in TWoW. 🙂 As others point out, Hardhome is not just a battle scene, it is a chance for the showrunners to explore the magnitude of “evil” and devastation that is coming with the “Long Winter”. Not simply a lone WW on a dead horse. Maybe some giant spiders too? Probably not. I wonder if the NK is bringing his army of converted WW toddlers with him?

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    19. Ha…its beginning to feel like Christmas! “Game Of Thrones” teaser AND a “Star Wars” one…in the same week!!!

      I think, I need to change my adult diapers!

        Quote  Reply

    20. Hodor’s Bastard,

      Wonder if they’ll cast Mother Mole who led them there? Perhaps they may give double duty to the head of Crasters Wives seeing as that character has already been introduced? Always wondered what happened there before (the incident 600 years ago). Will Cotter Pike already be there before Tormund is sent to investigate/reinforce or will they use another means for Jon to want to investigate ( perhaps they may borrow from what happened to Hardhome 600 years earlier when “The homes of the inhabitants of Hardhome were said to have burned with flames so high and hot that the watchers on the Wall far to the south thought that the sun was rising in from the north”)? Spiders woul be cool but I’d be happier if they saved the money from CGI to spend on other things. Still not sure why they wasted it on those god awful fireballs and the skeletons last season when they could have used real alternatives that would have looked just as good if not better.

        Quote  Reply

    21. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Yeah…fun details aside, I’m expecting (hoping) for some hard-hitting truths to start coming from the North this season, and trickling down south.

      A snowflake in KL? A white raven in Pycelle’s room? The wildling stories should be intriguing and serve as great forboding of things to come. I’m looking forward to how Stannis, et al react to the news of Hardhome and Mance’s tales before heading south toward WF, and gathering some northern clans and houses to his cause. Will Jon’s demise (mutiny) be wildling related (letting them flee the true north and stay in the Gift) or sabotage from KL-guided deviants? So much possibility here…!

        Quote  Reply

    22. Hodor’s Bastard,

      I’m hoping for/looking forward to Jon executing Janos Slynt the most. That was when Jon really landed as a character for me and showed he has what it takes to command/rule. Was also the delicious poetic justice of him executing one of the men who was responsible for Ned’s death in the way Ned would have done.

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    23. TheTouchOfFrost,

      We must have…

      “Edd…fetch me a block….” Then afterwards, we should have Stannis nodding approvingly from above. That “connection” between Jon & Stannis (between leaders) is another cool moment to look forward to…..before the chaos.

        Quote  Reply

    24. Hodor’s Bastard,

      Oh I hope so. Hope they’ve not decided to stray from replicating the more important/iconic moments from the books closely again like they did last season (Tywin and Tyrion springs to mind). Still annoyed at how many of Jaime’s great lines they’ve missed out.

        Quote  Reply

    25. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Yeah, in the spirit of “Only your sister” we’ll probably get:

      “Edd, please get me a big flat rock.”

      and instead of Stannis’s “The more we bleed each other, the weaker we shall all be when the real enemy falls upon us”

      we’ll probably get

      “It’s probably not wise to kill all that you command.”

      and instead of Aemon’s “You are half the age that Egg was, and your own burden is a crueler one, I fear. You will have little joy of your command, but I think you have the strength in you to do the things that must be done. Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy and let the man be born.”

      we’ll get

      “Grow up.”

      🙂

        Quote  Reply

    26. I don’t get it, why is people so obsessed with LS? personally, i found his character to be complete unnecessary, all she did with her “resurrection” was ruin the shock of the Red Wedding. And let’s be honest, so far she hasn’t brought anything to the story (resurrection was already been established with Beric). Not even GRRM knows what the hell to do with her. Maybe i’m wrong, and in the future her character will be important, but so far, all she did was bring this feeling of “Oh, my favorite character was kill. Doesn’t matter, i’m sure a Red Priest is close”, wich i’m sure it will be the case on the next book with

      Jon and Melisandre

      Again, it’s my personal opinion, it doesn’t mean i’m right, but i’m glad if she is cut from the show.

        Quote  Reply

    27. AllHailtheKidneyPie:
      I don’t get it, why is people so obsessed with LS? personally, i found his character to be complete unnecessary, all she did with her “resurrection” was ruin the shock of the Red Wedding. And let’s be honest, so far she hasn’t brought anything to the story (resurrection was already been established with Beric). Not even GRRM knows what the hell to do with her. Maybe i’m wrong, and in the future her character will be important, but so far, all she did was bring this feeling of “Oh, my favorite character was kill. Doesn’t matter, i’m sure a Red Priest is close”, wich i’m sure it will be the case on the next book with

      Again, it’s my personal opinion, it doesn’t mean i’m right, but i’m glad if she is cut from the show.

      You have to be kidding. Why would anyone want their favorite character to be resurrected into a decaying, insane, monomaniacal, tragic travesty of what they were when they were alive?

      LS does not diminish the effect of the RW, she augments it, makes it all the more tragic, and ensures that it’s present in the story and that no one can forget it or put it behind.

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    28. AllHailtheKidneyPie,

      I’m not massively fussed if she’s in or not (although I think on balance I think I’d prefer her to feature) but she (or a proxy) is quite critical to both Jaime and Brienne’s stories. I worry about what the show is going to do with those two characters in her absence. I mean Jaime appears to be trying to salvage the Dorne storyline but Brienne? Who knows?

        Quote  Reply

    29. AllHailtheKidneyPie:
      I don’t get it, why is people so obsessed with LS? personally, i found his character to be complete unnecessary, all she did with her “resurrection” was ruin the shock of the Red Wedding. And let’s be honest, so far she hasn’t brought anything to the story (resurrection was already been established with Beric).

      Did fans really kick the dirt when she appeared or speed read through the books for her next appearance? LS satisfied the thirst for revenge. Beric was just a tool.

        Quote  Reply

    30. It’s been a short month of news so I thought we could figure out who will be be promoted to main cast this season (not that it matters):

      We have the recurring main cast from season 4:
      Peter Dinklage (Tyrion Lannister), Nikolaj Coster Waldau (Jamie Lannister), Lena Headey (Cersei Baratheon), Emilia Clarke (Daenerys Targayen), Kit Harrington (Jon Snow), Aiden Gillen (Littlefinger), Natalie Dormer (Margaery Tyrell), Liam Cunningham (Davos Seaworth), Stephen Dillane (Stannis Baratheon), Carice van Houten (Mellisandre), Alfie Allen (Reek), John Bradley (Sanwell Tarley, Sophie Turner (Sansa Stark), Maisie Williams (Arya Stark), Gwendolyn Christie (Brienne of Tarth), Jerome Flynn (Bronn), Conleth Hill (Varys), Kristofer Hivju (Tormund), Hannah Murry (Gilly) and Ian Glen (Jorah Mormont).

      Confirmed to get the upgrade:
      Michiel Huisman (Daario Naharis) and Natalie Emmanuel (Missandei).

      Who else might get promoted?
      It’s about time that Michael McElhatton gets some recognition and this will be a big season for Roose – odds: 75%.
      The new big names Alexander Siddig and Jonathan Pryce may be the first to join the main cast at once since season 2 – odds: 50%
      Tom Wlaschiha as Jaqen according to his agency – odds: 95%
      Someone else (since I did not expect N. Emmanuel) – odds: 30%

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    31. Haterofbookpurists,

      Yes. Yes I have. Now I assume your overly-aggressive post is due to a rather poor attempt at being ironic or you having an exceedingly small penis that you feel the need to display cartoon-like machismo to compensate for?

        Quote  Reply

    32. Dragonslayer,

      Iwan Rheon (Ramsay Bolton) also counts as a returning main cast member for Season 5. So there are 21 main cast members who we know will be returning (not counting Isaac Hempstead-Wright, who will be sitting this season out).

      After the confirmed trio of Huisman, Emmanuel, and Wlaschiha (although he isn’t as definitive as the other two), I would agree that Michael McElhatton is the next most likely candidate to join the main cast, since Roose Bolton will likely have a far more prominent role than he has in previous seasons. Other theoretical candidates include Gemma Whalen, Ian McElhinney, Jacob Anderson, Daniel Portman, Diana Rigg, Indira Varma, Ciaran Hinds, Dean Charles-Chapman, Finn Jones, and Julian Glover. There’s always the possibility it could be someone completely off the board, though. Kristofer Hivju was a bit of a surprise last year, and I never would have predicted Hannah Murray being added to the roster.

      (As always, who gets promoted to regular status tends to have less to do with an actor’s relative screentime in a given year than contractual nuances facilitated by their agents and the need to ensure their availability for current and future seasons. There’s always a risk that in-demand actors who aren’t locked in to regular contracts might be lured away for a higher profile role in another project (e.g. what happened with Ed Skrein, the old Daario). That may be why Huisman and Emmanuel got promoted for Season 5. I imagine that the producers were quite happy that they got Gwendoline Christie onto a regular contract before Star Wars came calling).

      As you say, no actor has been promoted directly to the main cast for their first year on the show since Season 2, so I would be surprised if that happened now. If it does, Alexander Siddig and Jonathan Pryce would probably be the most likely, although if the rumors about the Sand Snakes having major roles going forward are true, I could see those actresses getting the bump for Season 6. I wouldn’t bet money on it, though.

      Given how often Benioff and Weiss have talked about the world of the series starting to contract, I would be surprised if they added a bunch of new series regulars this year. The three that we already know about might be it.

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    33. TheTouchOfFrost: she (or a proxy) is quite critical to both Jaime and Brienne’s stories

      Eh, so far, she seems to be just a plot device for either of them, and even then, only at the culmination of their existing plotlines: it isn’t clear yet where there plotlines are going to go because of her. She has not affected their actual contributions to the stories at hand, and it is even less clear how or even if she will affect their contributions to whatever story WoW is going to tell.

      Of course, I did fine Brienne’s storyline to be the weakest (in terms of contributing to story) in Crows. Jaime’s did fine, but the infamous “woman” in question had nothing to do with that: it was all about him

      trying to convince himself that he was Tywin II.

      (Indeed, I would not say that they are trying “to salvage the Dorne storyline” with Jaimie: there isn’t a Dorne storyline; instead, they are staging Jaime’s storyline in Dorne, which might allow them to set up some long-term plot lines centered around Dorne. Similarly, I would write that they probably are using Trystane to tell both Arianne’s and Quentyn’s stories at the same time.)

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    34. Hodor’s Bastard,

      Agreed that this scene is essential. I’ve always found Jon to be one of the absolute dullest characters in both show and book, but this is the one Jon chapter I always look forward to in rereads. Dillane will perfectly convey Stannis’s attitude here.

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    35. “The rain feels good against me face, Sam. It feels like tears. Let me stay a while longer, I pray you. It has been a long time since last I wept”.

      – Aemon Targaryen

      :'(
      This scene would crush me

        Quote  Reply

    36. Some thoughts about LS, Beric and Jon and how it could be adapted to the show, under the spoiler tags:

      I don’t understand why people say that Lady Stoneheart would devalue the importance of death, or make resurrections seem easy, or that her inclusion makes/would make people comfortable about Jon’s fate post-Ides of Marsh (just like I completely disagree with the argument that LS diminishes the tragedy of the Red Wedding – she only augments it, as I explained above). It only does the exact opposite.

      If anything, it’s actually Beric Dondarrion – who has already been included in the show – that devalues the importance of death, makes resurrections seem (relatively) easy, and would make people comfortable about Jon’s fate, especially if LS is not included. Beric did note that he was progressively lose his memories and felt less like his old self, and he looked bad because of his many injuries, but he still retained his personality, he was a rational person and a pretty good guy by ASOAIF standards, and he was not further physically decaying, zombie-like.

      LS, on the other hand, is notably physically decaying (she decays considerably between the epilogue of ASOS and Brienne’s chapter in AFFC), and even more importantly, she is terrible, tragic shell of what Catelyn used to be. She is not a “zombie” (that’s what wights are), but she’s not the person she was either; she both is and isn’t Catelyn. She’s an example of the “Came Back Wrong” trope and a warning that resurrections may go terribly wrong

      Now, of course, there are many reasons why this may have happened; from the fact that she had lost her mind just before her death and the tragic circumstances of her death, to her having been three days dead in the water, to the fact that multiple resurrectee Beric gave her the kiss of life, as opposed to Thoros performing a resurrection. However, there aren’t many (non-wight) examples of resurrected people in the series, and we don’t know if Melisandre would manage to resurrect someone the way Thoros did, since she’s never done it.

      I really don’t believe that the Ides of Marsh will be postponed till season 6, or that it would be a good idea at all, narratively. Now, under the assumption that Jon is coming back, I think that the season probably won’t finish with his (attempted) assassination; appearing to kill him in the finale only to bring him back the next season would look cheap, and it would be impossible to hide the fact that he’s coming back to play a major role. Many people already took the announcement of the contract extension/pay raise for Kit Harington as a spoiler/confirmation of Jon’s return. So, maybe the Ides of Marsh happen in episode 9, and episode 10 presents an ambiguous situation where Jon is dying, in a coma, or dead, but it’s hinted that Melisandre is planning to resurrect him, and/or that his consciousness may be in Ghost? (The latter seemed to be the main purpose of the ADWD prologue, and it may be also why Varamyr is included in season 5.)

      Both these things may very well be true. Most people think he’s coming back in TWOW, but opinions differ on how and when it’s going to happen. But does anyone really think he will be 100% the same? It would be a waste of a storyline. I doubt Jon will be anything like LS, but I don’t think he’s going to be the exact same Jon, unchanged by the experience of dying, and perhaps also living as a direwolf.

      But, if the show indicates that Melisandre may be planning to resurrect Jon, the audience is likely to be much more comfortable with that if lord Beric is their only example of a resurrected person. However, if the show includes the reveal of Lady Stoneheart during season 5 – probably in one of the last episodes, maybe even in the finale, just before or around the same time when the audience is wondering if Jon can come back – especially if we first get to see her through Brienne, the way she is when Brienne meets her, she will be an example how resurrections can go horribly wrong; and the audience is much more likely to be creeped out as hell by the idea of Jon’s possible resurrection, and wonder: “Oh my god, what is he going to be like if she resurrects him? Should I even want that to happen?” The cliffhanger could be not so much about “Is Jon coming back?” but “What is the Jon we see next year going to be like?”

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    37. Turncloak,

      Do you think Aemon will ever make it out of CB (or the north) in the show before he dies? Will there even be an attempt to travel to Oldtown? There is so much to learn from Aemon…Hopefully we get some good conversations between Sam and Aemon at some point in S5. I will shed a few tears when he passes.

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    38. Wimsey,

      Plot device or not,something needs to bring them together again and also give Jaime an alternative to rescuing Cersei. This is the bit about the show that worries me the most as I want something concrete that would stop his coming to Cersei’s aid. Ideally some in person confliict. Second hand information would feel like a cheap way of his distancing himself from her. This could be done before he goes to Dorne and is accentuated whlist he is there but it needs to be done right as she is meant to be the only person in the world he really cares that much about so abandoning her after hearing some tittle-tattle would be crap story-telling.
      Brienne has been dull since she left Jaime in the show. In the books her exhanges with Randyll Tarly and the inn fight made things a bit more interesting and made her character more sympathetic. Show Brienne is on the verge of becoming very flat .
      Don’t mind Jaim in Dorne too much but I hope he doesn’t stay down there too long. I don’t see what more Dorne as a location can offer the ongoing story. I’m not even convinced the characters from there are particularly crucial to the bigger picture at this point (despite Bland Snake fans constant bleating about how they’re going to become important). Seeing as a lot of their story seems to be tied up with Aegon then it’s very up in the air…unless they tack her onto Dany’s story like people are speculating they’ll do with Varys ( which would be exceedingly lame IMO).
      I think Quentyn;s story is dead in the water. No chance of them getting someone over there quick enough to be rejected by Dany and be involved in the chaos following her buggering off on Drogon. I would still like to see Trystane be Aegon as it would justify the time and effort they’ve put into Dorne and the plot and characters involved would be relatively unchanged. A good example of streamlining.

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    39. Annara Snow,

      I rather enjoy how each “resurrection” is treated differently (based upon circumstances and character disposition) in the tale. Post-death(s) Beric is very different from LS/UnCat…there is little substantive comparison between the two (Nymeria may have even had something to do with LS too). Coldhands is different from wights/WWs via ??. Robert Strong is different via Qyburn. Jon will be very different via Mel & Ghost. WW toddlers (saved from a wight-like death) are interesting as well, regardless of their ultimate purpose. Wights are arguably the only generic throwaway zombies in the mix.

      Like you, I am fascinated by the circumstances behind each major undeath. So far, GRRM has made each situation unique and riveting. I doubt the show will carry this undead motif to such extremes but I’m sure Jon’s situation will be executed plausibly, exhaustively and convincingly. Mel’s gaze at Jon at the end of S4 decided it for me…she saw Azor Ahai in the flames (fire amongst the ice). Whether it happens in S5 or S6, Mel will be deeply affected and motivated by Jon’s every move. Her purpose is clear.

      I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

        Quote  Reply

    40. TheTouchOfFrost,

      [spoiler]Jaime does not need an alternative: it would be much more powerful if, as in the book, he just ignores Cersei’s request. In a way, that was sort of the climax to his story: in his personal quest to go from Tywin’s son to Tywin, he’s become yet a different man altogether, and one who seems to put some sense of justice above reflexive family loyalty. (In the books, Jaime could have gone to Kings Landing: he chose to not do so.)

      As for Quentyn’s story, it’s much more general than trying to wed Dany: he’s trying to go from Frog to Prince. Part of that is playing Queenmaker: and that’s what he has in common with Arianne. Arianne in turn is trying to go from “powder puff” princess to Mover Shaker Princess: and part of that is playing Queenmaker. It should be easy to merge the two into Tyrstane: he is tring to elevate himself from Pretty Boy Prince to Crown Prince. That involves marrying a potential queen (Quentyn’s plot element) and helping to put a potential queen (both Quentyn’s and Arianne’s plot elements) into power. And, of course, doing this without knowledge of Doran’s full plan for who actually is going to be put on the throne (Arianne’s plot element).

      That is why I think that he’s not going to be Aegon: I think that he is going to be a Quentyn/Arianne “hybrid” instead. Now, transplant Jaime’s “Watch me be Twyin II!” storyline into Dorne, and you have plenty of reason to set stories in Dorne: instead of setting just one (fairly weak) storyline there as in the books, you can set two there; one was pretty strong in the book (Jaime’s) and the other one will be strengthened by merging it with another (fairly weak) storyline that was set elsewhere in the books. A big reason why I was fine with cutting Dorne is that I didn’t think that either Arianne or Quentyn were effective protagonists: but I think that combining them into one (which I had not considered before) could be.

      I do agree that it’s improbable that the Sand Snakes will ever be that important to the story, although they might be relevant to the plot, and I can certainly see them as very useful for communicating plot on TV. The certainly justifies retaining them.

      As for Brienne, I honestly cannot recall what she was doing in Crows, besides (probably) running into the Hound in the end. Even Sansa’s storyline made a more obvious contribution to the overall story, even though I think that I misinterpretted that initially!

        Quote  Reply

    41. Turncloak,

      Sometimes I get disappointed that GRRM hasn’t given us more insight into Aemon’s thoughts regarding BR. For R’hllor’s sake, Aemon enabled Egg to rule Westeros, he volunteered to go to the wall and then he traveled with BR to the wall, where BR would eventually become LC of the NW! As a maester, Aemon has got to have the detailed goods on BR, but all we get are a few great quotes about young Egg as Aemon’s mind desperately succumbs to that dark night along with his body. Such a pity for us.

      I hope GRRM writes of the Aemon/BR trip to the wall at some point, and BR’s ascendancy to LC, and subsequent disappearance. Then again, maybe BR will tell Bran…

        Quote  Reply

    42. Turncloak,
      Ah, but the problem is: who is Sir Ovum? Indeed, even for book readers, that line meant anything only to the (very small minority of) the audience who had read stuff outside of the SoI&F books!

        Quote  Reply

    43. Turncloak,

      An Arbor Red, I hope?

      That written, I do wonder if Dunk & Egg could be adapted to TV, too. It could be entertaining, but, then, it might be a bit too “Hobbit” to SoI&F’s LotR. (OMG. LOL. BTW. IMHO. PCA. IPA. BBC. Etc….)

      Patchy Face:
      Yes, Aemon is definitely my favorite secondary character and depicted beautifully on the show.

      I do hope that they work his “

      Kill the boy, become the man

      ” line (or some paraphrase thereof) in the show. More than any other single line, that epitomizes what every protagonist in this story is trying to do right now.

      On a side note, I was a little disappointed that Rose Leslie is not slated to come back. It’s probably just me, but when reading DwD, I kept envisioning

      a Battlestar Galactica type of thing where Jon actually sees Ygritte when thinking to himself: “they know nothing” or “I know something.”

      Obviously, that was just my (probably iconoclastic) reading that was influenced by something that I had watched after Martin wrote this stuff (albeit before I read it).

        Quote  Reply

    44. Turncloak,

      When reading the books, the death to which you referred as becoming the saddest…it was definitely the saddest, for me. I had tears in my eyes. If we get that on the show, I’ll be stunned if I don’t cry.

        Quote  Reply

    45. Wimsey,

      But it makes no sense that he killed and did everything in his power to get back to her and when we last saw them in Season 4 they were very much back to how they were before ( in his eyes anyway whereas Cersei was manilpulating him). Why would he just suddenly ignore her request for help? It’s daft unless they lay the foundations properly and to deny the viewer a scene where the distance between them has become very evident is both poor story telling and a missed oppurtunity for a great scene.
      I maintain Quentyn added absolutely nothing to the overall story. All I got from him was Doran trying to form an alliance with Dany and failing. Dorne on it’s own is a complete non-factor. Potentially allying them with Aegon made both factions more relevant and more of a threat. Just allying them with Dany would be weak, unthought out and make her atack on Westeros even less interesting/more predicatable. Aegon made her road to the throne more interesting. With him gone her story gates even duller than it already is.
      Quntyne and Arianne combined are still pretty irrelevant. They both needed to form a marriage bond with a Targ to become relevant. With Dany turning Quentyne down and him dying and there potentially being no Aegon then what purpose does Dorne serve? Trystane as Aegon is the only thing in my eyes that would both fit nicely with the plot and actually make Dorne a player/threat. Would also make both Doran (taking on a Jon Connington role) and Varys (he has a plan that doesn’t involve a contrived “I supported Dany all along” anti-climax of a plot) more relevant and present the dragon dance that is a key feature of the history of Westeros.
      To be honest, I don’t think we need Three Sandsnakes. They won’t flesh them out properly ( in that way they’ll mirror the book) and placing them in King Landing makes no sense if Doran doesn’t have a horse to back in the race to the Throne. Kinda hoping at least one of them dies this season although the way Henwick is talking it looks like we’re stuck with them for Season 6 too.
      Hard to remember myself. The only memorable things I can remember her doing were the encounters with Randyll Tarley ( as it actually gave her some character/made her a little more sympathetic) and when she got attacked by Biter and Rorge ( The Hound kinda I guess) and Gendry saved her with a spear. There was also the stuff with LS which was memorable but that’s probably gone if that character is so the worry is they go full fan fiction mode with her. Some sort of interaction with Sansa may be acceptable ( both seem to have ran out of story) as long as it doesn’t alter things dramtically, allows her to be in position to reunite with Jaime and finish that business and most importantly give her some drastically needed character development!

        Quote  Reply

    46. TheTouchOfFrost,

      TheTouchOfFrost: [spoiler]But it makes no sense that he killed and did everything in his power to get back to her and when we last saw them in Season 4 they were very much back to how they were before ( in his eyes anyway whereas Cersei was manilpulating him). Why would he just suddenly ignore her request for help?

      Why not for the same reasons as in the book? They can fall out pretty easily. Indeed, the show has set the stage for it quite well: we’ve seen a rocky relationship between Cersei and Jaime since he returned. Now he has gone and freed Tyrion: and that will certainly set up a good falling out between the two. There are plenty of other avenues to take. For example, it should be pretty easy to insert some harebrained murderous scheme by Cersei concerning Trystane and/or others in Dorne that she doesn’t tell Jaime. (Cersei doing really stupid things in her attempt to “kill the daughter, become Tywin II” is her main contribution to the story, after all.).

      However, the show has already completely set the stage for this: indeed, it is better set than it was at this point in the books simply because Jaime’s early return has set up some additional negative interactions between the two. (That whole “why did the gods have me fall in love with such an awful woman” line was certainly quite memorable.) More development of both characters will help, and the aftermath of Tywin’s death and Tyrion’s escape provides plenty of fodder (as used in the book): but enough already has been done. However, remember that the books rely almost entirely on events in Crows: so it is hardly as if it is “too late” when the TV series has a head start on the books here!

      TheTouchOfFrost: I maintain Quentyn added absolutely nothing to the overall story. All I got from him was Doran trying to form an alliance with Dany and failing. Dorne on it’s own is a complete non-factor.

      That is plot, not story. His contribution to the story was “Kill the Frog, become the Prince.” It was not a particularly powerful contribution to the “Kill the child, become the adult” story: Jon, Dany, Arya, Theon and Tyrion all make much more powerful contributions to that story. Sansa can with a little tweaking: and raising her to Maleficent probalby will do that trick.

      Arianne’s and Quentyn’s contributions both were weaker, but I think that combining the common elements (basically, going from mere “prince/princess pawn in the Game of Thrones” to “Queenmaker in the Game of Thrones” should be enough to make Trystane a useful protagonist for telling this story.

      TheTouchOfFrost: Quntyne and Arianne combined are still pretty irrelevant. They both needed to form a marriage bond with a Targ to become relevant.

      Again, that is plot, not story. I’m much more concerned with story, as that is what will resonate with the TV audience. In this case, having Trystane be the amateur trying to play the Game of Thrones in an amateurish way (like Arianne does), and actually risking hurting long term goals of which he is unaware (and that he does not credit his father for having) should work.

      TheTouchOfFrost: To be honest, I don’t think we need Three Sandsnakes. They won’t flesh them out properly ( in that way they’ll mirror the book) and placing them in King Landing makes no sense if Doran doesn’t have a horse to back in the race to the Throne.

      They are just foils in the book: none of them get any development of substance. Part of their importance is to contrast the “smart” vs. the “reckless” way to play the Game: they would rush out in the name of revenge (and with the justification of “that’s what Daddy would do,” vaguely echoing Jaime: who know will almost certainly be doing the same thing), and actually hurt the long-term goals of the family.

      TheTouchOfFrost: Some sort of interaction with Sansa may be acceptable ( both seem to have ran out of story) as long as it doesn’t alter things dramtically, allows her to be in position to reunite with Jaime and finish that business and most importantly give her some drastically needed character development!

      I think that Sansa’s story is going to get accelerated. In part, she probably will take over some of the manipulation that Littlefinger does: or get her to do it at her behest.

      As for Brienne, I’m curious as to what they will have her do. I probably should re-read her chapters in Crows: I am sure that Martin probably tried to make her fit the “Kill the Boy, Become the Man” story as he did with every other protagonist, but I just don’t remember in what way he did that with her.

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    47. Hello team – House Ray to chime in.

      I think the scene involving the Night’s King makes a lot of sense. Details be damned, we’ll see them when it airs. But that S4E04 tease of him with craster’s baby was awesome. The show needs to fill in the blanks with the others and he is a focal point. Having another scene in S5 only makes sense – we have 20 hours left after this season. Time to ramp up some endgame!

      LS is out. She’s dead. She’s done. She’s ceased to be. A dead end. A bad plot point. Again, my $200 2:1 bet stands. My $400 to your $200 she never shows up in the TV series.

      Dorne will be interesting but I have faith – they’re going to do a good job. They had a big task in making this show at all. After season 4, season 5 is a challenge. I think they will step up to the plate and consolidate and do it well. Yeah there will be some bullshit in there but House Ray predictions are:

      – Arya’s transformation, she goes blind, and gives her Mercy.
      – Cersei fucks up, walk, The Mountain vZombie
      – Jon Snow Lord Commander, For The Watch (his last scene for this season, not the LAST one though)
      – Dany Drogon
      – Stannis v Bolton. I’m really not sure if they will do the Battle of the Ice, I hope they do, but this one I’m least confident about
      – Night’s King tease, plus everything else awesome that has not been leaked.
      – Who is the person in Dorne that could not be shown? I’m thinking Varys but could be Barriston
      -If not Barriston, then he dies.

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    48. House Ray,

      I just hope the show is not stretching itself thin with the addition of

      the Sand Snakes. And I was one of the advocates for keeping the Dornish arc in the show. However, I’m worried about the Northern storyline not being as good as the book version. I really want frey pies, fetch me a block, stannis vs bolton, aemon’s “this lightbringer is bullshit”, dead things in the water, pink letter, for the watch, my name is Theon, etc.

      It would also be a mistake to focus too much time in Kings Landing now that many of the most interesting characters are gone from there. Damn with so much material to cover maybe they should have asked some more actors aside from Bran to take a break (such as Brienne and Pod, who’s story will probably be added show only material)

        Quote  Reply

    49. Turncloak,

      There is no doubt about Stannis vs Bolton, most likely even more so than the books, since it seems we’ll be getting the Battle in the Ice for Winterfell this season. Also, D&D are in love with Theon and Alfie Allen’s portrayal as much as the fandom, so his character development certainly won’t get scrapped —the whole point of showing his transformation in Season 3 instead of having it told to us is that it’s more believable and that it pays off in his storyline this coming season. Then, “For the Watch”, yeah, of course we’ll get that. I have no doubt. Will the Pink Letter be a part of it? Of that I’m more doubtful, though that might be the case after all.

      Now, in terms of pure speculation, I’d say we’ll probably get “Edd, fetch me a block.” Now, obviously I have no concrete evidence for this, but for the fact that the show wouldn’t have bothered with Slynt at all if he wasn’t going to eventually meet that memorable end. Season 4, especially “Two Swords” and “The Watchers on the Wall”, went to great lengths to establish exactly how much of a prick and a coward he is. This will obviously have consequences next season, and I believe his book death is more than good enough for that. I really think it will be included.

      As for the other stuff… I’m not so sure. I really don’t expect Manderly, “The north remembers, Lord Davos, and the mummer’s farce is almost done”, or the Frey pies. I really did, a while ago. But the total lack of evidence, especially now that filming is almost done, has started to trouble me. I really hope he’s included, though not so much the Frey pies —if I can have Manderly and his epic speech without that specific form of vengeance, I’ll take it. It’s better than nothing. Unfortunately, I now suspect “nothing” is exactly what we’ll get.

      As for Lightbringer… no, I don’t think so. Maybe, who knows. I may be wrong. But I very much doubt it. While D&D have said prophecies will now come into play, I’m pretty sure it was just about Maggy. The show has downplayed the Azor Ahai thing to a point that if you ask any show watcher they’ll understandably just know (at best) that to Melisandre Stannis is some sort of prophetic chosen one. D&D might start exploring this in season 5, but I don’t expect they will. Then, the “dead things in the water”… I had to look up what that even was. And I don’t see the big deal. And I don’t see why it would be a big deal that it’s included in the show or not.

        Quote  Reply

    50. Luka Nieto,

      awesome points and I hope you are right about Theon. Though the

      lack of a Jeyne Pool casting announcement is worrisome I hope they find a way to do his arc justice.

      But you had to look up “dead things in the water”?. FOR SHAME! Hardhome will be an excellent place to show our yearly white Walker threat :-).

        Quote  Reply

    51. Luka Nieto,

      I wouldn’t expect the special pies because:

      the show has steered away from any of the cannibalism. We didn’t get Bran et al. eating dead Night Watch members that were supposedly boars; we didn’t get Jojen paste, or something that we might think was that.

      It is interesting to note what “lines” still do exist. That is one of them. Animal cruelty seems to be another: in the books, we see a bit of torture of animals (particularly from Joffery), but that has been cut.

      I agree entirely about Slynt: and it sort of puzzles me that people would expect them to skip that! (There does seem to be a belief that B&W go out of their way to deviate from the books.) As for

      Dead Things in the Water: I agree with you that fans are over-blowing this, as it is barely in the books. However, 1) fans are very good at overblowing small things while ignoring the big things, and 2) it also would (much like the wights outside the tree) make for great cinema.

      I am betting that they will rehash

      Lightbringer and what that means. After all, they did introduce that into the show at the beginning of Season 2. Now, the TV audience isn’t going to remember this off of the top of their heads: but the flashbacks at the onset can remind them easily enough. Mel has made too much of a to-do about Stannis being the chosen one for them to not be planning to do anything with that: and much of the tension between Stannis and the NW is because of this. I would take it a step further than you have: I think that the TV audience knows that Mel thinks that Stannis is a Chosen One; the exact details escape them, but they’ll remember quickly enough that the sword was key (it’s an old motif, anyway). B&W have emphasized that the stories are about conflicting beliefs, world-views, etc., both among individuals and for individuals: and religion is always a great way to communicate that on both page and screen.

      I do agree that we won’t see

      Manderly. He’s a continuity foil in the books, really. First, Martin uses him for Davos: but it looks like Davos won’t be going on his diplomatic journey, so that is out. Then Martin uses him in the backdrop for Theon: but we don’t need specific northerners, just indications that the Northerners are only begrudgingly (and maybe disingenuously) playing along with Bolton and the Freys.

      One thing to keep in mind is that because Rickon is so much older on TV, they don’t need a babysitter for him when he returns; that frees them up to do different things with Davos, which in turn reduces an entire plot line that requires separate filming. Moreover, they probably can tell Davos’ story just as well with Davos at the Wall with Stannis as they could with Davos’ own plotline. It shouldn’t be too tough for them to do “Kill the Smuggler, Become the Hand” and “Kill the Coward, Become the Man” with Davos and Sam at the Wall, and that would certainly streamline things considerably.

      And I agree with you entirely about Theon. After all, his character (one that you both hate and yet with whom you empathize) is the kind of character that these HBO audiences find fascinating. It looks like they are going to beef it up and make it even more “Game of Thrones” than it is in the books: it could well be

      “the enemy of my enemy is also my enemy: so, which enemy do I hate more?”, which I can see being extremely effective in Theon’s “Kill the Reek, Become Theon again” storyline.

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    52. Sansa Stark:
      More forest shooting this week (close to the August location)

      https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t35.0-12/1669662_10154915332700010_8412159183351620179_o.jpg?oh=25a2001f43e030668548e7af260d3b3a&oe=547E0A90&__gda__=1417522971_3c4267cb68038c91f4d3087f71224061

      So there’s a bright light in the middle of the photo and then a brown object up against a tree just down and to the right of it. Anyone have any theories on what that is? #desperation

        Quote  Reply

    53. Wimsey,

      The reasons are fine, but my worry is that it will be done properly as they’ll need to get Jaime down to Dorne pretty quickly. For me they need to fall out in person as Jaime’s love for her wouldn’t just be abandoned for second hand whispers of what she may or may not have done. Fine if that’s what tips him over the edge but on it’s own that is incredibly weak and damages the character.
      Not going into the whole plot/story boredom again. He added nothing to the plot or story. The only character that had any real interaction with him was Dany and that was minimal. Leave his and all his aspects on the cutting room floor.
      I disagree. All the Martell children appear to be there for is to tie Dorne to a Targ. Trystane being Aegon creates a stronger bond and save makes him way more relevant and also adds more depth to other characters storylines and the overall plot. Not sure how Trystane can hurt long term plans when there doesn’t seem to be any other than the potential “Oh yeah we were on Dan’s side all along” catch all that makes little sense given the build.
      I honestly couldn’t care less about the Sandsnakes in the books an I think the show ones will be even more shallow (if that was possible). Hopefully they don’t take up too much screentime.
      Not sure why every plotline has to fir a story for you? Can’t you just enjoy what’s happening in the plot/to the character without having to try and match it up to some “story” archetype? Also what’s with every character having to “kill” someone or something?! 😛

      Oh and although I wasn’t part of the conversation the show hasn’t exactly shyed away from cannibalism when the Thenns killed and ate a child’s mother in front of him!

      ReekReek,

      Not sure how they’re linked. The majority of moaning about the Sand Snakes (from myself anyway) is that they’re poorly fleshed out , so far-irrelevant characters. Their ethnicity is the least of my concerns!

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    54. James Rivers,
      For what it’s worth I stuck the picture in photoshop, which has been really helpful with official GoT teaser stuff in the past, as for some reason it tends to be very dark (as in not well lit, not the opposite of happy and lightweight). Sadly, it’s had no effect this time as official piccies tend to be much higher quality than ordinary photos, which I assume this is. It’s not high enough resolution to get anything from zooming in and playing around with effects like brightness and contrast don’t help either.

      Certainly noose sized if you compare it to the people on the left but the loop bit looks quite solid to me. To be honest it looks like an upside down frying pan with something bulky around the handle. The more I look at it the more it seems like the round bit is solid and perhaps reflecting the light. And the less idea I have what it is #Sorry, I tried.

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    55. Haterofbookpurists,

      Oh, please! He’s blowing off steam about a show and the work that’s exposed to us as viewers for our enjoyment and/or displeasure. You on the other hand are attacking him as a person and judging his brain power on the basis of a single dislike he has for GoT vs ASoIaF books.

      In my book he’s winning hands down. Not that it matters.

        Quote  Reply

    56. Lulu’s Mum,

      Thanks for looking! Yeah, and I was thinking the round part would be more oval, wouldn’t it, with nothing inside it. Depending on the angle of course (and it’d have to be facing a certain way to even look like anything circular/oval at all)

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    57. Greenjones,

      Interesting stuff… not very medieval-like looking, though… the tunnel there (hehe, Tunnel 😉 ) could be used for something, maybe… (Secret passage from the crypts?!)

        Quote  Reply

    58. Messy Justin Massey,

      Greenjones,

      http://www.apersonalguide.co.uk/northern_ireland/images/038_Belfast_Crumlin_Road_Gaol.jpg

      http://cdn5.hauntedrooms.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/crumlin-road-jail.jpg

      Not entirely sure what would fit there for a GoT location to be honest. Unless it’s internal stuff?

      Unless she meant the Crumlin Road Courthouse which looks more GoT-esque with it’s Corinthian styling.

      http://www.apersonalguide.co.uk/northern_ireland/images/041_Belfast_Crumlin_Road_courthouse.jpg

        Quote  Reply

    59. I posted links….they are awaiting moderation! Also posted one of Crumlin Road Courthouse which she may have meant instead of the gaol. With it’s Corinthian styling, it certainly looks more GoT-like!

        Quote  Reply

    60. Messy Justin Massey,

      Yeah, the tunnel is something I can think of being fitting for GoT, from a look around Google images… if it was dressed a bit, or CGI’d a touch, it could definitely work. And I can think of a scene or two (the walk from the Wolf’s Den and the New Castle?) it could be used for. Also, this entrance, which I think is part of the gaol gaol complex, could probably work.

      The Courthouse was seriously damaged by fire a couple years ago, and hasn’t been repaired I don’t think… Could be used for some sort of ruin or similar I guess.

      Or maybe there is just some small, but significant and suitable architectural setting in one of them

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    61. James Rivers,
      Can’t honestly say I’ve spent much time contemplating how to hang someone, but I shall channel my inner you-know-who….I think as long as the rope, or whatever you use, goes around the neck the shape doesn’t matter so much. That teardrop with elaborate knots we see in films and tv is probably the one that most likely ensures instant death from a broken neck when whatever is supporting the person’s weight is removed. Apparently before that more “humane” method was devised for executions people dangled for ages and slowly suffocated. If I were hell bent on vengeance I might like the slowly slowly approach although I doubt you’d be very scientific about it unless you were some James Bond-style villan genius serial killer with lots of time on your hands. You’d just need a very strong tree branch sufficiently far away from the trunk or anything else that could offer support for someone’s weight and something that wouldn’t give way to go around their neck. Lasso shape probably quite sufficient.

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    62. TheTouchOfFrost,

      In a story, all of the character development (and all of the plot lines fueling the character development) had better contribute to the story: otherwise, it’s just narrative! “Story” in a tale should be like a control sentence in a paragraph: if material isn’t contributing to it, then it shouldn’t be there. (That is the #1 reason why editors tell authors to cut stuff: either it’s not contributing to the story, or it’s making a redundant contribution. Authors, in return, often will argue how that part actually is relevant to the story; when the authors win, it usually comes after revision to make that section more obviously relevant than it initially was.)

      In this case, the dynamic development of each protagonist involves the same thing at one level. (Aemon’s advice to Jon Snow epitomizes that thing.) The two protagonists in question are doing that same thing at that general level. Ergo, they are contributing to the story, even if inefficiently or redundantly.

      Now, if you want to argue that they were inefficient or redundant, then I won’t disagree with you. The reason why I wanted Dorne cut was not for the plot it provided (which was interesting), but because the two protagonists it provided were ineffectual. I thought that other protagonists communicated these points much more clearly. Keeping Dorne’s plots while cutting (or, as it seems, consolidating) the Dornish protagonists’ story lines actually is a better solution than I considered!

        Quote  Reply

    63. Greenjones,

      I didn’t take the picture myself, it was taken from a FB contact who lives near Leitrim Lodge (Newry area). He saw no actors and was asked to leave before the scene(s) actually started. I think I remember something being shot near there back in August, but I could be way off.

      Rhaegar,

      As I said, he saw no actors. Apparently the set itself was also extremely low-key: some small fires laid out all over the paths, with ropes and other objects hanging from the trees, and a natural cave entrance nearby. Nothing elaborate.

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    64. Annara Snow: Why would you expect her to be announced? It’s not like it’s likely to be a renowned actress or a big star.

      I’m not expecting an announcement but I was atleast expecting casting leaks. We’ve gotten a plethora of small roles in Mereen but barely any in the north

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    65. Sansa Stark,
      “Ropes hanging from trees” could set off fans of a certain person big time. I really don’t mind if they’re in or not but I think I’m in a minority on here, lots of people feel very strongly about it, and you may have just won today’s prize for inadvertently breaking the internet.

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    66. Sansa Stark,

      Oh dear. Ropes hanging from trees and a cave entrance nearby?

      (Oh and given the experience recently with fake Patchface, can any admins verify this is the same Sansa Stark who posted before with the picture link? No offense Sansa!)

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    67. At this point, I’m not expecting the character to be in the show but if this photo is legit, I really don’t know what else it could be.

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    68. Morgan,

      Yeah, let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. This could easily be related to Melisandre’s storyline (the fires we see in the picture), and I’m sure the set could double for the Haunted Forest if need be.

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    69. I can’t shake the feeling off here on the site is some pathetic GFLSHC (= Grand/Great Fake-Lady Stoneheart-Hints Conspiracy) happening… (Sorry of course if I’m wrong!)
      But I’m sure to 99% it’s old/fake/not-GoT-related.

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    70. Messy Justin Massey,

      Yeah, this is indeed the fourth or fifth “leak” involving that character. You had the fake script page months ago, the fake Tim Plester tweet, the fake Patchface comments here, and probably something else I have already repressed.

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    71. Greenjones,

      Huh. The entrance looks vaguely Meerenese with the holey-looking blocks. Reminiscent of the throne room in Meereen. A little CGI, and you’re there. Thanks for the reports!

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    72. And hmm how cold is it in evening or night in NI this time of year? People in that pic are fairly lightly dressed. And would there still be that much vegetation on the trees?

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    73. Wimsey,

      No offence , but I really don’t want to talk about what does and doesn’t qualify as a story again as it bored me to tears last time!
      Nothing about Dorne did anything for me. The plot, story , characters. It was all dull and contributed nothing to the larger picture. I maintain that even combining Arianne and Qentyne into Trystane doesn’t give the merged character anymore significance. As Quentyne served no purpose unless you enjoyed the charater and Arianne needs a dragon to have relevance ( her Queenmaking can and probably will be passed to the Bland Snakes). The option I mentioned before , for me , is a much better use of a character and very sensible streamlining. Doesn’t drag the show away from teh source material as much and would just make more interesting TV.

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    74. Just played Telltale’s Game of Thrones. I’m disappointed in my performance. As a book reader I should have made wiser decisions in the game -_-

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    75. TheTouchOfFrost: The plot, story , characters. It was all dull and contributed nothing to the larger picture.

      Well, one might ask why someone who finds story and plot “boring” is a fan of a series of stories! Nevertheless, I cannot gainsay your taste: what anybody finds dull or interesting is highly subjective, after all. However, we do need to keep in mind that what is important to a story or plot and what any one of us finds interesting need not be the same. Moreover, I strongly suspect that the general audience will find an Arianne/Quentyn composite interesting: there is no need to make him

      Aegon

      , too: the latter can be interesting and important on his own next year.

      At any rate, I would not be quick to dismiss the plots centered around Dorne as unimportant just because they bored you. They might not be thrilling, but I suspect that they will become very important in Winter. Moreover, instead of assuming that they are leading nowhere, I would instead assume that they are informing us of what is going to come.

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    76. azor ahai: This could easily be related to Melisandre’s storyline (the fires we see in the picture), and I’m sure the set could double for the Haunted Forest if need be.

      Well, there was a temporarily scheduled hanging that got rescheduled as a beheading…..

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    77. Wimsey,

      Because I’m a fan of the vast majority of the plot and stories but thought Dorne was tedious and uninteresting. If it becomes interesting or important then I will reassess but at the moment I don’t think anyone can argue that it has been pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things and not easing the reader in with an existing character was perhaps a mistake by GRRM or at least made it hard for a number of fans to have much interest in it,
      Have to hold our own opinions about that then. I think introducing A is a longshot for Season 6 and could run the risk of being rushed. But if they do it right then excellent. I just think the Trystane idea would be a great way of streamlining.
      We’ll see. Currently, Dorne leaves a very dry flavourless taste in my mouth.

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