Casting

Bowen Marsh cast for Game of Thrones season 5

Posted on by Cian

M174086A new face has been added to the Wall for Game of Thrones season 5.

Michael Condron‘s agency confirmed that he will be playing the role of Bowen Marsh. His Spotlight CV further confirms that he will appear in three episodes, directed by Mark Mylod, Michael Slovis and Jeremy Podeswa.

Michael has previously appeared in The Tudors and the British mini-series Fairy Tales.

Cian: Thanks to Luka for the find! It’s great to finally have confirmation that Marsh will be included in the show going forward. Castle Black should be a very interesting place to be in the coming season… for the Watch.

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Cian

144 Comments

  1. Well that confirms that it’s only the three eps then. If he ain’t working with David Nutter then I guess that means…

  2. Greenjones:
    Well that confirms that it’s only the three eps then. If he ain’t working with David Nutter then I guess that means…

    That the info is incomplete?

  3. They deleted the GOT mentions from the CVs.
    I would have liked to see the wording of “he is only in 3 episodes”.

  9. So assuming (1) those directors are accurate (2) Marsh plays the role he did in Book 5 and (3) they get to Jon’s stabbing this season, that would apparently be happening in episode 6 at the latest. A lot of assumptions there, but that seems slightly early. We shall see…

  10. Arkash,

    Aye. The directors whose eps he’s shooting are for either 501 or 502, 503 or 504 or 505 and 506. All of which are too early for the Ides.

  11. Fedejru,

    That is so ridiculous! In a good way

    Greenjones,

    So there is still room for maneuvering around that statement! He is currrently filming 3 episodes, and will rejoin filming in a few months to do a couple more 😛
    …I know, it’s a stretch

  14. Since Bowen only appearing in three episodes and none seem to be later in the season I think that big event at the wall wont happen this season. Unless some of this info is wrong which is possible so hopefully we get more news on this soon.

  16. It would seem too early…unless the show plans on doing not only the Idea of Marsh but the aftermath like Resurrection and the Big Reveal next season as well…

  18. They don’t cast someone like Bowen Marsh unless they plan to give him his famous scene. Same thing for Dennis Mallister. We will be getting the choosing this year and the other event as well

  19. Let me quote myself from the other thread on the possibility that he DOES only appear in three episodes:

    Maybe the assassination scene is delayed to season 6. God knows, we all expected season 4 to end with the Lord Commander election and it didn’t. Jon has a lot of material to cover (especially with the added election stuff- and it seems they are going all the way with the election given Denys Mallister’s casting so I think it’ll probably take up two episodes). He has 12 chapters in ADWD. Another thing is that this scene might be scrapped entirely- if they aren’t casting a fake Arya then Jon won’t be sending anyone to go steal her away and Ramsay will likely not write him the Pink Letter which means he may not get assassinated at all.

    There is of course the possibility that someone else will assume Marsh’s role, but it seems pointless to me to cast yet another Night’s Watch recurring character to do nothing important when they already have Othel, Olly, Edd, Sam, Slynt, Thorne, some Wildlings and the newly added Denys Mallister at the Wall. We’ll see, I guess.

  21. Damn! I’d been hoping

    we’d get Jons stabbing this year since I’m not sure there’ll be enough climaxes without it. Though on the other hand, him getting both elected and killed in the same season might feel a bit rushed. Or maybe not, it worked for Ned.

  22. Agreed. Also I take all this new casting at the Wall to be an indicator that the show is starting to put more focus on the White Walker threat and try to slowly wean us off Kings Landing.

  23. I really don’t see the point of casting Bowen Marsh unless they plan to give us his famous scene. Without that scene he just becomes another Othell Yarwick who non readers don’t even know exists on the show.

  24. NEW THEORY:
    Remember that good old JJ Murphy died while filming his scenes and still have some things left to shoot? Well, that likely caused D&D to write around some things, and maybe they had to cast another new character to fill the hole Denys and Murphy left behind. Could this be possible? Sue said in another post that she was aware he was cast for a while now, just unaware of which role he plays. The question is- how long ago were you aware, Fury? Before JJ Murphy’s death or after?

  25. Cian,

    I don’t know about you, but I don’t see any mention of Thrones in his spotlight CV, and the tab listing the directors and his role in GOT in his agency CV also doesn’t show up anymore

  26. I’m amazed at how people can find these cover letters. I Google search is not enough to find these gems :-]. Brilliant stuff and impressive digging

  28. Turncloak,

    Right, thanks. Completely missed it.
    EDIT: They definitely deleted the stuff from his agency CV mentioning that he is Bowen Marsh and which directors he worked with

  30. Info is likely incomplete or incorrect on that. Wouldn’t regard that part as necessarily official. But this is great news indeed as it also means they’re not going to give this role to someone else.

  31. Why must we assume Bowen will have his famous scene? It makes sense to me for them to set up Thorne to do it given that Jon and Thorne have a relationship. It might have more impact for the tv audience. Marsh in the show might simply be a way to flesh out the Wall story line. I don’t think we have enough of the casting puzzles yet to hazard too many guesses. I’d think episode 6 would be too soon given that if anything, they’ve slowed down happenings at the Wall.

  32. jentario,

    It’s all still there for me. Have you clicked on the “Television” tab at the bottom of his agency CV? That’s where the info is.

  33. Greatjon of Slumber,

    It’s probably not incorrect, but possibly incomplete. Technically he could be filming three episodes with the mentioned directors now, and filming later (after a month or two of break) with, say, David Nutter for a couple more episodes.

  34. Cian,

    I’m an idiot. I clicked Film instead of Television.
    Those moments when you go full retard… this is one of them 🙁

  35. to clarify it just means that they won’t try to make Alliser Thorne the man who goes after Jon. And also probably means Cotter Pyke in a small role. If the Ides of Marsh occur in anything earlier than Ep 10 or maybe 9, though, it means us Sullied better get ready for major spoilers.
  36. I find it far more likely that they’re giving many of Bowen’s actions to Thorne so that the audience will have more of a connection with the guy who eventually stabs Jon. If they really wanted him to play the role that he does in the books, he’d need to be in way more than 3 episodes.

    It would appear far more likely that he’s a part of the Election storyline and then part of the background senior leadership group much like Yarwyck is. He’s not an actor of much note so I doubt they’d have him aboard to do something overly significant.

    As has been suggested, he may have been brought in to pick up the slack on the lack of Denys Mallister scenes during the election because of the untimely death of the actor.

    With Grenn/Pyp and soon Janos, Sam and Aemon gone from the Wall, they need to have a couple of extra NW characters for Jon to bounce off of. This is probably the main reason this guy is here.

    I would be shocked if they had this guy actually do anything close to what Bowen does in the books.

  38. Personally I think Thorne was very loyal to Rhaegar, which is why he chose the Wall versus bending the knee like Ser Barristan. So Thorne then becomes important, if

    J=R+L is true, to a later storyline, if J survives / revives and becomes king, then Thorne’s conflicted reaction to Jon as Rhaegar’s son versus Jon as Lyanna’s son might be interesting, if Thorne hates Lyanna but loves Rhaegar. Maybe Thorne will become a loyal supporter of King Jon, or maybe he’ll try to kill him. It could go either way!

  39. If the respective directors list is final I feel like season 5 will just be introducing us to certain characters (like, Bowen Marsh) at the Wall. I feel like that could build up to the later events that occur on the Wall.
    I also feel like season 5 will mostly be

    Jon becoming LC, Stannis and the Wildlings + Mance Rayder business and season 6 would just be everything become chaotic everywhere.

  40. King Tommen,

    But this guy only appears in the first half of the season, so we don’t really need any more Night’s Watch characters for Jon to interact with (Sam and Aemon would still be there for most of his screentime). Seems like a throwaway casting unless it is to work around the Denys Mallister thing.

  41. It’s incredibly obvious for all the book readers that aren’t idiots that Marsh will not end this season the way book 5 ends with him. CLEARLY that will happen in season 6, probably early. I can’t believe there’s idiots that think he might do that by episode 6..;GoT is suppose to have the smartest fans in the world not dumb ones

  43. What if the show cuts out the

    “Ides of Marsh”? If Jon is resurrected, they may just elect to skip him dying in the first place. It’s not as though the AA reborn prophecy has been mentioned in the show.

  51. Arkash:
    For the moment, I prefer to assume the directors list is wrong… and I hope I’m right !

    I prefer to think they’ll ditch the cliffhanger. They’ll show us that Jon never died, or Melisandre resurrected or whatever cheesy fake out GRRM set up.

  54. There aren’t that many known members oft the NW left. I count eight:

    1. Jun Snuuh
    2. Sam
    3. Aemon
    4. Dolorous Edd
    5. Alliser Thorne
    6. Janos Slynt
    7. Othel Yarwick
    8. Olly (the little boy who shot Ygritte)

    Casting Bowen Marsh and Denys Mallister makes sense, I guess a casting announcement for Cotter Pyke will follow. Some additional wildlings and maybe king’s/queen’s men would be nice too.

  55. jentario,

    I’d be stunned if the show dropped

    fake Arya. The show has strongly supported not dropping Reek and the Boltons so far. They even crammed bonus characters in the storyline. I see Brienne visiting Winterfell looking for Arya, I see a ton of Fake Arya stuff (I hope I hope) P.S I so totally don’t think Ramsay sent the pink letter….

    If the spoilers don’t work.. I DID put them in. Is it a problem with me, or Google chrome? I had this same problem with the other site, and I would really like to resolve it!

  56. Biscotti Knight,

    HAH! Aren’t you all cheery and full of goodwill this fine evening?!

    I think they’ll keep the cliffhanger. There’s material enough to keep Jon’s storyline going at the Wall, getting the leadership, fetch me a block, plotting Alys Karstark/ fArya, Mance and his wildlings organization. In fact it makes for a wonderful cliffhanger. Martin knew what he was doing. Plus Unsullied at this point have seen only one person resurrecting. Beric Dondarrion. No LS, no Robert Strong so for them it is not yet an “overused” method.

    You cannot judge from a bookreader perspective only, you know? It’s limiting your speculation abilities. Look at what I type! lol I have no shame today 😛

  57. Since we can safely assume that there will be no

    Alys Karstark affair

    ,

    There’s really not THAT much Jon needs to do, and it can really be done within S5. The show hasn’t had any cliffhangers to end a season, but the same can be said about GRRM before ADWD. 4 books pretty much conclusive about their own arcs, and all of a sudden in book 5 we have cliffhangers for Jaime, Cersei, Jon and 2 large battles approaching their onset.

    About Marsh appearing on only 3 episodes and doing what he’s remembered for, i say why not? Oberyn was in no more than 7 episodes yet reached fan favorite status. Expectations for Marsh are not that high.

    It’s not as if he interacted an awful lot with Jon before LC election, even during his brief time as Mormont’s steward.

  58. Tyrion Pimpslap:
    What if the show cuts out the

    Yes, it makes sense to cut it. Just like it makes sense to cut every big battle and dramatic moment. Why not cut Daznak’s Pit and the Walk of Shame, too. In fact, I wonder why they kept the hatching of the dragons in season 1, they could have just have them hatched off screen and said “oh and BTW, the dragons hatched”. Renly should have just died off screen. There was no need for the battle of Castle Black, they could have offed Ygritte and a few others in some other way, I mean the wildlings are going to end up south of the Wall anyway.

    Who needs big dramatic moments on TV? Instead, you can have just nice scenes of two people talking in a room and providing lots and lots of exposition.

  59. King Tommen,
    Well I wrote a response but then edited it and then the spoilers went away so no response.

    jentario,

    There was an interview with David Nutter’s cinematographer a while ago where he mentioned that the shooting of this season would be staggered and that David Nutter and him would be shooting their episodes later into the filming schedule, so yes, I could see that happening.

  60. Strider,

    They showed Qyburn

    making Frankengregor, and the fake out would was cheesy when GRRM used it in the books the first time too.

    I’ve never been a book-only person, so I don’t know what you’re blabbering on about.

  61. Dogs,

    Next time you edit your comment, don’t look that the spoiler bracket is not blurring the spoiler part once you hit the save buttom. Just refresh your page. That will reactivate the spoiler tags.

    When you edit and click save for some reason it doesn’t show you the blurry image over the spoiler. But if you just refresh it suddenly does.

  63. Biscotti Knight,

    Unsullied don’t yet know if

    Qyburn is successful really, unless I missed something. If I did, I’ll apologize later.
    Cheesy? How? Just because it is not a “new” out of this world method, “resurrection” works and it makes perfect sense in Martin’s world. The magic is returning. More and more resurrection’s are happening as a result. Thoros had no idea he can do it to begin with, suddenly he finds himself capable of it and uses it for Dondarrion. Mel goes to the Wall and finds her powers are growing. Her getting to resurrect Jon is an affirmation of that should Martin choose to write it. It is not goddamn cheesy! Makes perfect sense.

    EDIT: ha! you got edited. Mod probably put spoiler tags which proves I was damn right!

  64. Strider,

    Well shucks, guess I’ll just write it out again. But thanks.

    King Tommen,

    SO WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY WAS: Thorne stabbing Jon would be like, the culmination of their personal antagonism and grudge with each other. Bown Marsh, on the other hand, would be the eventual product of the series of questionable actions that Jon does in his authority as lord commander, thus reflecting more on Jon’s leadership and tough choices and the struggling conservatism of the Night’s Watch as a whole rather than just the individual bitterness of Thorne. Probably doesn’t matter though.

  65. Annara Snow,

    I’m not advocating it, I just brought it up as a possible reason for this guy not appearing in an episode after 5×06. Personally, I don’t believe Bowen Marsh will be more than a featured extra on the show, and Thorne will take over his role from the books.

  67. Its a good thing they are not dragging out books 4 and 5. This means more seasons for the last two books with a tight narrative and less of that world building crapfest.

  68. Does nobody realize this is a re cast? Bowen marsh has been in more than one episode already, including the scene where Jon took his oath in season one. Imdb has the other actor in like 3 or 4 episodes.

  69. LordVega,

    A character performing much of Bowen’s AGOT role was in s1, played by Brian Fortune. Brian Fortune appeared in s4 again however and was named Othell Yarwyck, we can either assume that’s who he was meant to be in s1 or that it is some sort of rejiggering/recast. Since he was never called Bowen Marsh onscreen however, its best to not overcomplicate things too much in that way. Brian Fortune said to Flicks and the City that he was only ever called “Night’s Watch Officer” and never Bowen.

  70. Greenjones,

    I keep trying to fix IMDB and people keep changing it back to “Bowen Marsh” for Fortune. I’m guessing it’s fans like Lord Vega who are enthusiastic and haven’t quite researched it as avidly as we have.

  71. Sue the Fury,

    I could care less about typos on the internet, so no, not fans like me. but I thought I remembered Mormont or somebody calling him marsh. I may have been mistaken.

  72. LordVega,

    At one point Aemon says “report to Bowen Marsh in the kitchens”. In ep 107, I believe. IIRC that’s the only time anyone’s said his name in the show.

  74. James:
    It’s incredibly obvious for all the book readers that aren’t idiots that Marsh will not end this season the way book 5 ends with him.CLEARLY that will happen in season 6, probably early.I can’t believe there’s idiots that think he might do that by episode 6..;GoT is suppose to have the smartest fans in the world not dumb ones

    They’ve sped up some of the other character’s arcs so that they’ve practically finished their AFFC/ADWD chapter in season 4. Why is it unreasonable to think they might speed up Jon’s arc? There’s no indication that they’ve cast Alys Karstark and Sigorn and a lot of Jon’s chapters are internal character stuff and build up. It would not be that difficult to condense it down to 6 episodes.

  75. WeirwoodTreeHugger: They’ve sped up some of the other character’s arcs so that they’ve practically finished their AFFC/ADWD chapter in season 4.Why is it unreasonable to think they might speed up Jon’s arc?There’s no indication that they’ve cast Alys Karstark and Sigorn and a lot of Jon’s chapters are internal character stuff and build up.It would not be that difficult to condense it down to 6 episodes.

    Except that the

    election is not even in preparation. Jon still needs to get Stannis’ offer, Sam doing whatever his part will be in the election, Jon being elected, and they still have to build up all the things that lead to assassination attempt. 6 episodes will feel rushed.

    ps: Are spoiler codes needed in this post?

  76. Richard Horpe,

    If the information on the directors is accurate (and who knows for sure if it is), then this to me says one of two things 1)Marsh’s big scene will happen in Season 6, or 2) It will be given to someone else.
    I think Alliser is a good bet. They may make Marsh a much more minor character and give him a different role. After all, they’re already mixing up roles of other characters at the wall. Tormund Giantsbane can’t obviously have the same role he had in the books since he is captured. He may take Val’s role. And Varamyr Sixskins is apparently one of the characters they’re casting, and he can’t possibly have the same role he had in the books, so who knows how else they’ll mix it up.

  77. Ironborn,

    Yeah, I agree that it wouldn’t be the best decision but it wouldn’t surprise me if they condensed it that much either. Ideally I’d like the Ides to happen in episode 9 with TWOW spoiler aftermath in 10 just because I want to find out what happens sooner rather than later. On the other hand, they haven’t ended the season with a cliffhanger since 2 so it would work really well as a finale event too.

  78. I hope it’s not Alliser Thorne. The point being, Bowen Marsh is sympathetic or at least not openly antagonistic (though there are greys to Thorne as well). It’s just more poignant if it’s not a baddy who does it.

  79. Hear Marko Roar,

    And that’s why they should have kept Pyp alive! People knew his face and he was sympathetic. However, since Pyp is dead, it should be Alliser. He’s greyer on the show than he’s in the books and people know who he is. Something that won’t be the case for Bowen.

  80. Hear Marko Roar,
    Veltigar,

    They’ve made Thorne much more sympathetic in the show, particularly in ep. 409. If between now and then they made him even more sympathetic and perhaps even

    help Jon in the election and then have him help Jon out when he’s LC before becoming disillusioned with certain pro-wildling decisions…it could really work. So long as he cries during the Ides.

  82. Greenjones:
    Hear Marko Roar,
    Veltigar,

    They’ve made Thorne much more sympathetic in the show, particularly in ep. 409. If between now and then they made him even more sympathetic and perhaps even

    before becoming disillusioned with certain pro-wildling decisions…it could really work. So long as he cries during the Ides.

    Good points … they should work on the character developemnt more, and then it can have the desired effect. I’d be okay with that 🙂

  83. Hear Marko Roar,

    Aye. If they do it that way and do it right the moment could even be BETTER than in the books.

    Thorne’s grudging respect for Jon in 409 was one of the aspects of the ep. that stood out and a lot of people liked. If the show continued like that and they tried to work around their baggage and be dutiful men of the NW despite their past conflicts, it could make the Ides even more impactful.

  84. Greenjones:
    Hear Marko Roar,
    Veltigar,
    They’ve made Thorne much more sympathetic in the show, particularly in ep. 409. If between now and then they made him even more sympathetic and perhaps even

    To me Thorne is more sympathetic because of the great things they did with the character in season one. 4X09 didn’t really do much to cement/improve on what was already there in season one.

  85. Veltigar,

    I like his ranging tale monologue from S1 a whole lot as well. In addition, with Janos Slynt at the wall he seems all the nicer too.

  86. It would be really cool, if the show actually progressed so far that the

    Ides of March

    took place already in episode 6 🙂

  87. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    No, it really can’t happen in six episodes.

    Events that would need to happen at the Wall in six episodes for this to work:

    Lord Commander’s election politics, the election, Jon and Stannis moments, Jon sends Sam and Aemon away, Slynt being and asshole and getting it, Stannis marches off, Jon-Melisandre moments, Jon sends Mance or Tormund or whoever to free “Arya”, letting the Wildlings through the Wall.

    Events that need to happen elsewhere in 6 episodes:

    Fake Arya introduction, Theon in Winterfell, Theon’s grand escape, Stannis’s siege on Winterfell, the Battle of Ice (the Pink Letter was written after the battle). And this is after I entirely cut the Stannis vs Yara detour (which IMO should be in).

    It will absolutely not happen in 6 episodes.

  90. spacechampion,

    This is an interesting idea,

    John will need his generals; this would be a great overall arc for these two; and this would give Thorne good reason to back him. I don’t, however, think Thorne will have any reservations because of Lyanna.
    I’d be surprised to see the Ides happen this season, but I do think they will keep it for Marsh. I think a few eps filmed for early in the season could mean either a) they may film more later, b) the info for which eps he’ll feature in is wrong, or most likely c) they are building up his character to do the deed next season. I think he may have a small role during the election, maybe buddy up with that bitch Janos after the election, and Thorne will generally try to remain objective. Thorne’s a hardass, but he’s too classy to pull off the Ides. I don’t see that happening at all. Actually, I think that would suck if they do that.

    Exciting casting news, regardless of how they play it out…..

  91. jentario,

    Actually I’m not sure about a few of those developments….

    I think they may skip

    Fake Arya and the Pink letter altogether and just make the assassination about Jon making peace with the Wildlings. And if Jon escapes death by warging Ghost or something else, some of Jon/Mel could happen post ‘death.’ I think they definitely set it up for Mel to sacrifice Shireen next season.

  92. Winnie,

    I never get the vibe of

    Mel wanting to sacrifice Shireen… I really feel she needs her for something else than King’s Blood. I could be wrong, but I’d be very surprised if sacrificing her is Mel’s genuine intention.

  93. Winnie,

    They might, but that issue alone does not break the Watches rules

    to warrant a full scale assassination in my opinion. There’s nothing in the Vows that says do not make peace with Wildlings that seek help against the Others south of the Wall.

    Leaving the Night’s Watch for fArya and involving himself in the North’s turmoil and the inner struggle is a different matter.

    They could build on that maybe. I still think it needs that plot to tip them over. Doesn’t mean they’ll do it. As they proved with Tysha they can replace some plot points. How well they actually do it, I’ll have to see.

    I do wonder what would Mance be doing if that’s the case though. The actor said he’d have more screen appearance next season, after all.

    Biscotti Knight,

    Rhaegar(?)

  94. Winnie,

    Use spoiler tags!

    Of course I’d hate that since it oversimplifies the assassination and makes the stay bets seem like enemies and bad guys.

    Let’s map it out for a moment:
    -The election/Stannis’s offer: bound to take about 2 episodes considering that they cast Denys Mallister, which means they want all the politics and Sam’s stuff from the election to be kept. Bowen helps Jon out here.
    -Stannis treating with Jon and Jon sending Sam, Aemon, Gilly and maybe Dareon if he’ll be cast can happen in one episode (so we’re at 3)
    -Jon let’s Wildlings pass under the Wall against Bowen’s advice, Slynt objects and gets beheaded, Stannis bro-nods is one episode, so 4
    -Jon gives Stannis advice to attack Deepwood first or whatever, Stannis sets off to war and a Jon-Melisandre scene about daggers in the dark can be one episode (5)
    -With Stannis gone, shit begins to hit the fan at the Wall. Bowen Marsh makes a hasty suggestion about the Wildlings which Jon turns down (heading Selyse and Melisandre’s suggestion). Then a fight breaks out between some Wildlings and Night’s Watchmen in the yard, which leads directly into “For the Watch”.

    That leaves about two episodes of TWOW aftermath (the Wall has always had 8 episodes IIRC).

    So with your extreme simplification, it can be done- but ONLY if the Wall appears in every one of the first six episodes (and I consider that rather unlikely, but maybe now that King’s Landing isn’t a focus point of the story it could happen).

  95. Greenjones:
    Hear Marko Roar,

    Aye. If they do it that way and do it right the moment could even be BETTER than in the books.

    Thorne’s grudging respect for Jon in 409 was one of the aspects of the ep. that stood out and a lot of people liked. If the show continued like that and they tried to work around their baggage and be dutiful men of the NW despite their past conflicts, it could make the Ides even more impactful.

    Agree with this and the other comments supporting a switch to Thorne in the show. Teale has been amazing, especially the ranging speech in S1. Viewers know him and understand that he and Jon have been at odds.

    Watching Thorne put aside his doubts until – in his eyes – Jon has gone too far could be very powerful. The betrayal works much better if it is a character that the audience knows rather than someone that suddenly appears in S5. I am confident that Teale will capitalize on the opportunity, if that’s the way it goes.
  96. I think the next season will mainly deal with Jon getting elected to LC and the growing of him into a leader. With the actual election, aftermath of the battle of the wall, interaction with Stannis and Melisandre, the dealing with Janos Slynt ( probably my favourite Jon Snow moment as I think that’s where he really arrived! Plus some satisfaction with him passing the sentence so swinging the sword his fatehr’s credo being used against one of the guys responsible for his death) , fake Arya and Winterfell,the burning of “Mance” and assessing relation with the Wildings; Jon has plenty to do this season without being assassinated! I think the Wall story this season will finish with Jon sending Sam away and coming to the realisation/decision that the Watch neeed to ally with the WIldings (perhaps the final scene being the gates opening and the Wildings (Wen Wen and all!) marching through. Then next season (6!) can see him dealing with the problems presented by the tensions between the two sides and his eventual assassination (where in the season depends on how far they bleed into WoW I guess).

  98. And as for the casting/episodes, I think we’re only seeing

    the election this year. Marsh supports Slynt, he probably has a role in that. I don’t think we’ll see For the Watch until S6.

  99. Sue the Fury,

    I don’t know…

    If “For The Watch” is left until S6, that’s a lot of storyline for Jon in the final two seasons. Presumably, anyway. So hard to predict since we don’t know what’s coming.

  101. mariamb,

    People speculate that we won’t see much of Jon and the Wall till later in TWOW because of the current predicament. Maybe a couple of Melisandre chapters. So the show can just rush through that stuff in season 6.

    Waiting till early in season 6 for the assassination is handy because people will be seeing Kit filming around Belfast so they’ll just know he survives somehow. It also prevents a rather irritating cliffhanger.

    Also, remember how everyone assumed the election will be at the end of season 4? Well, it wasn’t.

    I’m happy either way, and just hope Bowen Marsh will fulfill his role rather than someone else (all other options aren’t as good IMO for various reasons).

  102. jentario,

    I tend to agree with the speculation that

    Thorne will take a leading role in that plot, but if the show is smart, they’ll build up supporting characters like Marsh so we have more than one guy to give a shit about. People will not care much about Thorne being against Jon yet again. But the less hateful men of the Watch even turning against Jon matters. They bothered casting Marsh. Here’s hoping they use him.

    mariamb,

    It’s not too late, if they do it early enough in S6. Not everything has to be scheduled for a season finale.

  103. Sue the Fury,

    It honestly makes no dramatic sense to me why they would tack that into season 6. It’s the culmination of all of his actions as Lord Commander throughout the season, plus it’s connected to the Winterfell story, which we think is going to go further than it does in the published material. It’s like, Jon’s character arc or whatever.

  104. Dogs,

    I agree with that but, again, so was the election and it was pushed into season 5. So all bets are off. I just don’t think it’s necessary to cast Marsh unless you intend to use him like in the books. There are enough characters at the Wall to handle whatever scenes Marah could have this season.

  105. Well, if the Ides are kept until season 6, it’s a nice move of the show to introduce him as of season 5 so viewers start to know him already.

  106. Arkash,

    Yeah. But it brings up the question: how does it all tie up with the big battle at the snow which we think happens in season 5? Could that actually be an expanded original scene at Hardhome? Maybe Jon actually goes there instead of Cottor Pyke? And if the supposed battle is of Stannis vs the Boltons, why doesn’t Ramsay send the Pink Letter in season 5? Does the Stannis situation stay in the same frustrating uncertainty as ADWD?
    EDIT: I guess if the assassination happens right away in season 6 it’s possible that Ramsay writes the letter in the finale and it could work. Or if they stretch the final skirmish for Winterfell into early in season 6.

    I’m 50/50 on whether the scene happens in season 5 or 6.

  107. They don’t tend to cast characters who are then not used for their specific purpose. In this case it does make some sense that it could last through early season six. That gives you a hell of a way to end the first episode of season six. Given the animosity Alliser Thorne had with Jon for so long it makes more sense not to have him play this role but to use Bowen Marsh for what he is intended. Also, given the way they tend to reorder events, the climactic event this season could be the beheading of Janos Slynt and letting the Wildlings settle south of the Wall. And if the timelines are truly as suggested you can still have the battle of Winterfell take place in 5.9.
  108. Episode 2: Hooray, I’m Lord Commander! What a pleasant surprise! 🙂

    Episode 6: Boy, that escalated quickly….wait, why is it suddenly so cold?

    Naaah, won’t happen.

  109. mariamb:
    Sue the Fury,

    I don’t know…

    The only thing that’s clear is that a lot of AFFC/ADWD will be changed or condensed. I think it’s really impossible to make an educated guess about what they’re going to do. We’re all really just speculating blindly. It’s kind of fun. I know there’s going to be a lot of surprises when the season airs. It’ll be interesting to see fan reactions. Many people think the last two books are weak compared to the first three. Does that mean the changes will be popular? We’ll see.

    Part of me doesn’t want anything to be cut. On the other hand, we only have three more seasons. I’d rather AFFC/ADWD be rushed than the endgame stuff.

    Only 8 more months of speculation to go :/

  112. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    I’d rather them just do another season instead of having to rush things at all. If they can get everything into 7 seasons then fine ( even though deep down I worry tremendously about them passing the books and the effect on the quality of the show and the spoiling of the yet-to-be-released books) but I hope they don’t stick to 7 slavishly if having 8 makes more sense.

  113. TheTouchOfFrost,

    Me too but it’s looking more and more like 7 is the plan. Hopefully they do the Breaking Bad/Mad Men thing and break up into two and extend it.

    I used to think they’d continue to more or less adapt the books as is and just cut out minor things like side characters and travel time. However, the news of there only being 7 seasons and the fact that so many characters have jumped ahead in the timeline have changed all that. I really think season 5 will be radically different than the books for better or worse and fans should start preparing themselves ahead of time.

  114. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    If they split it into 2 half seasons I will be so pissed. ONLY do it if season 7 will consist of two parts of 10 episodes each.

    Mad Men and it’s stupid half season this year annoyed me so much, I’ll only watch it next year when the rest it out.

  116. I’m glad they finally cast Marsh but this really makes me wonder how the next season at the Wall is going to go. There are a lot of good points being made here about all the different scenarios. Hopefully, we can get some more information on other characters soon, maybe that will help us figure it out some. Too bad all of the Wall stuff is filmed in studio so we can’t get all information like we did from the filming at Portstewart.

    jentario,

    I can’t wait for it haha.

  118. jentario,

    Awesome! That lines up with the the supposed start date of August 28th for filming in Split and the surrounding areas, which I believe would include Kastel Gomilica. Hopefully, we’ll get a lot of pictures or even confirmation of Tom Wlachiha’s return to the show.

    Haha I never knew that her real name is Margaret.

  119. What if all our theories are wrong and

    Jon remains dead 🙁 we are talking like if we’e 100% sure he might servive or get resurrected by Mel 🙁

  120. Lady Nym:
    What if all our theories are wrong and

    Then Martin put that Varamyr prologue chapter in there for shits and giggles only and I’m pretty sure that’s not the case.

  121. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    I’m not sure why they need to feature certain characters in a series. For example there was hardly any Jaime in Season 2 and Yara has been pretty much reduced to cameo appearances! Wouldn’t complain if Bran, Sansa and Brienne didn’t have many scenes in the next season so they have the time to spend on new/other characters.
    If they’d have followed George’s advice and added a couple of episodes a season then all this could have been avoided! 😛

  122. TheTouchOfFrost,

    It has been said a hundred times, D&D and the crew barely manage to finish production on one season before they have to start writing again. There is time to for in two or three more episodes. Maybe they could do it in the last season, when they don’t have to think and work on the next season (since there wouldn’t be one).

  123. Annara Snow: Yes, it makes sense to cut it. Just like it makes sense to cut every big battle and dramatic moment. Why not cut Daznak’s Pit and the Walk of Shame, too. In fact, I wonder why they kept the hatching of the dragons in season 1, they could have just have them hatched off screen and said “oh and BTW, the dragons hatched”. Renly should have just died off screen. There was no need for the battle of Castle Black, they could have offed Ygritte and a few others in some other way, I mean the wildlings are going to end up south of the Wall anyway.

    Who needs big dramatic moments on TV? Instead, you can have just nice scenes of two people talking in a room and providing lots and lots of exposition.

    Thank you. Exactly my feelings.

  124. jentario,

    I’m assuming they have to start filming straight away due to commitments to HBO? Shame people aren’t allowed the time to make what they want to make but I guess we live in a deadline driven age now. Am I the only person who doesn’t mind waiting until things are ready before getting them?!
    Think it would be daft not to give them as many episodes as they want/need for the last season. I’m guessing we can pretty much rule out the movie idea now?

  125. Lady Nym:
    What if all our theories are wrong and

    That would be pretty epic. Giant middle finger by GRRM :). Love it even though I like Jon

  126. I swear ahhhhh that day …when I read that damnd chapter . I still rememer it like if it was yesterday T_T I was still not healed from Quent’s last capter(I loved that kid ): )
    And I was enjoing every thing about it unti that damnd letter arrived 🙁 and I swear at the end I was up on my feet after the firts stabb and when he finally fall to the ground and said “Arya.. stick ’em with the pointy end 🙁 ” I was like ” noooooooooooooooooooo goooooood nooooooooo” I swear I read that page 4 or 5 times to make sure its not my “bad common toung again” and that I read something wrong ! But no ! It was the same with every re-read . Then I closed the book and I threw it at the door as hard as I could and just sat there unbelieving what just happend then sunddly I broke my silent and started cursing Bowen Marsh and George with my mother toung “” dammmn you dammn you god take you , ” you say for the watch hah ? You lieeer dammn you , .. Than after I finished I went to my laptop and start to search about anything that has hope of Jon’s servive and I googeld “theorys about jon’s death , ” George confirming that jon might live” . And than I swear I didn’t touch ADWD for about a week and I only had the epilog left and finally I took the book again and that didn’t help ): I found my self in Jon’s chapter again making sure I didn’t miss anything … But later I read the prilog 🙁

    Story of my life 🙁

  127. Turncloak,

    I’d be pissed. I just don’t see how that advances the plot and it would feel like the character was a waste from the very start.

  128. TheTouchOfFrost,

    HBO and TV networks in general work in a season-per-year basis. You can’t just take a year and a half or two with a show- there is a schedule and every show has its place in it. This isn’t the same as books, where GRRM can just shimmy out of a deadline. Shows like GOT carry whole channels- without them, viewers might decide to temporarily unsubscribe which means HBO gets less money and in turn GOT gets less money.

    So it’s literally impossible to get longer seasons. It’s much easier to get more seasons, or to do the BB thing and split a season in two while extending it slightly. But what’s for sure is that we’ll probably only see ten straight episodes of Thrones per year, no more (unless they do something in the final season).

  130. Sue the Fury,

    100% THIS. The Ides will be kept for 6.

    jentario,

    Not EVERYONE thought the election would be in S4. I didn’t, and I was not alone. The story is veering off in its own direction, the order of events is getting scrambled, character arcs are expanding and contracting, all according to a new timetable. Prediction has become nearly impossible. But speculation is so FUN!!

  131. Ashara D,

    I never thought the

    election was going to be in S4. We always knew the battle was all of episode 9. That left not nearly enough time for the election in the finale, with all the maneuvering that goes in the election.

  132. Ashara D,

    Sue the Fury,

    Also never thought we would get

    the election in season 4, given a full ep 9 devoted to the battle at castle black/wall. No time for all the setup <Sam is growing bigger balls every year… this will be a good moment for him. This should be first order of business at CB this year… regroup, Stannis and co. get settled in, Marsh is introduced, Slynt continues to be a little bitch, what shape is Thorne in?, etc…. Jon's thoughts will be on his most recent loss, and he will appear surprised (ish) at the election results. This is gonna take two episodes.

    Lot of time for shenanigans.

    Fetch me a block I'm guessing…. ep8? Finale to have some unclear snow battle comedown, and then Giants and Wildlings marching south of the wall. I'm betting we get another scene sometime with the Night's King to make this whole situation seem pretty dangerous, and act of true despair…. we will understand Jon's action, but we will also be well informed on the unpopularity of the move among members of the watch.

    Jon has no more friends at this point, and he's making very questionable moves as LC. (at least in the eyes of many in the Watch). Season 6, Ides could be an ep 1, 2, maybe an ep4 thing!

    It’ll kinda be like…….. reading the books! Except that,
    I don't see it needing to be a cliffhanger for viewers. It'll be shocking, but will sure as hell present a spike in ratings early season and keep people STOKED.

    I agree with Greatjon above, they have come wayyyyy too far with Thorne's character

    only to have him take Marsh's role. Nobody wants to see that guy who used to be a spiteful ass, who now kinda respects Jon, having fought beside him, then go on to decide to stab the guy.

    C'mon. This is TV. That's what the new guy's for.

  134. jentario,

    Can understand why they do it for business purposes but it’s just annoying that it limits creative freedom. I personally liked the idea of a LotR style trilogy of the final season to give them the freedom to do what they want with a bigger budget. It’s a pipe dream though as I can never see HBO going for that.

    Lady Nym

    Was cursing Neil Gaiman when he nominated him. Don’t want a bucket of ice water to finish George off before he finishes the books off!

  135. TaviColen123,

    *sigh* Stop trying to pick an argument for no reason. I clearly stated it was my personal preference and also that it was a “pipe dream”.

  137. TheTouchOfFrost,

    No, you clearly said that it seems we’re not going to get a movie when we already knew that way before since the HBO bosses themselves said it before .

  138. Bard,

    He need to lay low on the hamburgers and keep writing the book that he said he doesn’t have enough time to do it yet here he has time to do silly viral challenges .

  141. I finally found you! I am late with the news of your new Website! Good to be here, WIC is spiraling down fast…
    Question: I see many people mentioning Thorne as a substitute for Ides of Marsh, but wasn’t Thorne killed in thee TV series? I know he ain't dead (at least not explicitly) in the books, but I recall him being killed by Tormund in the show, or maybe I am mistaken? need to watch the episode again…

  144. Welcome to the cast dear Sir, good luck and all the best…may you enjoy your holiday on this show, and may we enjoy your performance as the member of a dying ancient order….that has recently come into some luck…sort of!

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