Game of Thrones has always knocked it out of the park when it comes to visual effects. The show added another Emmy this year to its staggering collection for their Special Visual Effects work in “The Bells”, but could’ve just as easily won the award for any other episode in season 8, as packed as this year was with eye-popping visuals. That’s what will make this category a challenge to vote in, with so many worthy potential nominees. Best Visual Effects Scene: the scene that you think best demonstrated the show’s effects this year.
In this initial prelims stage, we need your help narrowing the list down to a top 5! Select your favorite 5 scenes from the poll at the bottom of the post. To make your voting easier, we’ve embedded all the scenes nominated by our readers below. Have fun reliving some of the most incredible moments of season 8, and vote!
Jon’s first dragon flight
The Clegane Brothers fight to the death as King’s Landing burns
Arya hunts wights in the Winterfell library
Daenerys and Drogon lay waste to King’s Landing with dragonfire
Jon and Daenerys take on the Night King by moonlight, with their dragons
Drogon sleeping in the snow
Winterfell falls apart as Viserion and the dead attack
Drogon destroys the Iron Throne and carries away Dany’s body
The Dothraki charge the army of the dead
Daenerys and Drogon destroy the Iron Fleet, the Golden Company, and the gates of King’s Landing
The Night King, white walkers and Viserion shatter and explode
Daenerys make a speech to her legions, and spreads her wings
The dead rise at the Battle of Winterfell
Daenerys saves Jon, and Drogon is swarmed by wights
Daenerys tries to burn the Night King with dragonfire
Smoke and flame rise as Drogon makes runs on the wights with Sansa and Arya watching from the walls
Please choose your five favorites from the preliminary poll. The ground rules: Select up to FIVE nominees from the poll. You can choose fewer if you like, but you can’t choose more than 5. (Visit the initial WotW Awards post for a complete explanation of the rules and process.)
At the end of one week (Monday 10/21/19 at 12PM Eastern Time), whichever five scenes have the most votes will continue on to the finals. The results of the poll will be revealed when it’s time to choose the winner of Best Visual Effects Scene in a few weeks.
* Arya hunts wights in the Winterfell library
* Daenerys and Drogon lay waste to King’s Landing with dragonfire
* Jon and Daenerys take on the Night King by moonlight, with their dragons
* Drogon sleeping in the snow
* The Dothraki charge the army of the dead
I didn’t prefer very many of the selections when it came to the dialog awards, but I definitely have my favorites for this category. I actually would’ve voted for more than 5 if I could.
The Dothraki charge (as tactically stupid as it was) was brilliant to watch. That one probably gets my top vote.
Dancing with dragons in the pale moonlight was probably my second favorite visual scene of season 8. Just beautiful. Especially when contrasted with the chaos that was going on at ground level throughout that episode. A brief and much needed moment of catharsis.
I think the worst option of the bunch is Jon’s dragonride. The only thing missing from that scene to make it cornier was Jon yelling out “I’m the King of the World!” a la Leonardo DiCaprio in Titanic.
I don’t know, there was something magical about seeing the secret Targaryen ride a dragon for the first time.
To me, that scene was so visually stunning.
I went with:
– Jon riding dragon for the first time
– Dothraki charges the AOTD
– Dany and Drogon lay waste to King’s Lansing
– the torching of the iron throne and Drogon flying off with Dany
– the moonlight dragon chase
To me, the most stunning moments were the dragons rising out of the clouds into the moonlight, the first dragon ride and the Dothraki charging.
I picked the King’s Landing one because I cannot believe they recreated Dubrovnik so realistically and then trashed it! (On a side note, I cannot get over how they didn’t win the Emmy for that set!) As far as visual effects go, that was a masterpiece.
And I picked the Drogon and dead Dany scene because of the way they managed to get Drogon to convey so much emotion. I didn’t feel too bad about Dany dying at that point after the atrocities she committed, but Drogon trying to wake her broke me. I think they did an amazing job making a purely CGI creature convey so much emotion and intelligence (on not incinerating Jon, but going for the IT instead).
Che,
I think it was a necessary scene, but not one that I enjoyed. it just came off as incredibly corny to me. I tried to like it. I really did.
Besides, the whole secret Targaryen thing really turned out to be a huge nothingburger in the end. It was simply a device to make Dany go “mad” or whatever she did in episode 5 and it had no lasting impact on the story at all. Everything related to anything “secret Targaryen” in the last season just fell flat for me as a result.
Jon being a secret Targaryen was a disappointing storyline for me. It was built up so much with very little payoff.
Same for the White Walkers. They were built up from the first scene of the first episode as something that would actually have an impact on the endgame. As it turned out, this was also nothing more than a side distraction that had no lasting impact at all other than to be a plot device for Dany to go “mad”.
I voted for Dany and Drogon destroying KL, Jon and Dany fighting the Night King on dragonback by moonlight, and Drogon sleeping in the snow.
I agree 100% with everything you said.
It didn’t even makes sense for Dany to go mad as a result of Jon’s parentage. He did not want the throne, and had no intention of taking it. Even if Varys had successfully informed the realm, so what ?
Are the lords of Westeros, who don’t know Jon from Adam, gonna somehow force him to become King against his will ? How and why would they do this ? Even if they did somehow, could he and Dany not get married ? Varys and Tyrion dismissed the idea but it makes no sense that Dany never brought it up to Jon.
Alternatively, Jon could have taken the throne and then simply abdicated in Dany’s favor. She would be his heir anyway.
Finally, despite the fact that Dany supposedly went mad over the whole Jon thing, in the final episode she seems perfectly happy to rule alongside Jon. She doesn’t seem threatened in the slightest by him. She’s so in love with him and unthreatened that she’s still fantasizing about a life with him, and hasn’t even the faintest inkling that he’s furious with her and about to kill her.
That doesn’t really seem like an insanely paranoid woman who is obsessing over being usurped by Jon. The whole thing just makes no sense the way it was written.
Nick20,
I would also add that, prior to burning KL, she had already resigned herself to ruling by fear, so why is it that Dany “went mad” when the citizens of KL didn’t cheer her on as a liberator? Didn’t she already resign herself to ruling by fear at that point?
The fact that Dany burned KL in the end isn’t what disappointed me. It was how we got there.
-The Clegane brothers fight to the death as King’s Landing burns
-Jon and Daenerys take on the Night King by moonlight, with their dragons
-Daenerys and Drogon lay waste to King’s Landing with dragonfire (Almost didn’t want to vote for this because it’s such an obvious no-brainer in this category, but…how can you not?)
-Drogon sleeping in the snow
-Daenerys make a speech to her legions, and spreads her wings
The last two I chose are actually my personal favorites. Not big, epic moments, but short, striking images with some really powerful imagery.
There was a lot of beautiful CGI this season. Some scenes looked like illustrations come alive. My top was “Daenerys and Drogon lay waste to King’s Landing with dragonfire” but I really loved the moonlit dragon scene too and Cleganebowl.
These are my thoughts! In the absence of DNA testing (not the “black of hair” based DNA test because Jon would fail that), there’s no way to prove Jon is a Targaryen, especially with his Stark looks. I think the best support for his claim would be if Dany said, “Yeah, he’s my nephew-lover, alright! <3" But I'd think it's going to be hard to convince all of Westeros with the story of R+L=J and that Ned Stark, of all people, hid a Targaryen heir as his bastard for 20 years and nobody knew. That seems a little… convenient 😉
And who's going to make Jon take the throne when he’s throwing his support to Dany? Especially when Dany has dragons and the larger forces? (They even respawn! ;D) And it also seems weird that the prospect of marriage was never brought up between the two characters it concerned — at least that could have helped with the claimant issue.
I’ll end my whining here for now 😉 I’ve whined a lot these past few days.
The CGI was truly beautiful this season. I couldn’t believe this was a television show.
(Sidenote: Jon didn’t seem so much furious with her toward the end, more like agonized? Still, all of Dany’s mental flags must have be turned off because he’s clearly unhappy over the prospect of “kill now, mercy later.” Then again, Dany was redefining what “liberation” meant so…)
It’s not whining. At least, I don’t think it is 🙂 Just a discussion. If we didn’t care about the show then we wouldn’t really care about the details, right?
Thank-you, Mr Derp! That makes me feel better 🙂 I don’t want to unnecessarily bash the show, I think so much good work went into it, but some of the writing gives me pause… But yes! It’s because we care that we’re on here discussing it! There are few shows I’ve loved as much as Game of Thrones and I’ve never been so active in a series’ fandom before this, not even Harry Potter! 😉
Adrianacandle,
I don’t think you’re bashing the show. Just pointing out inconsistencies that were critical in shaping the show’s ending. That’s worthy of discussion, IMO.
I mean, there’s not much else to discuss here right now anyway. GoT is over and there’s very little news on the prequels. I truly enjoy discussing the show with so many passionate fans. At least, the ones that don’t repeat the same comment over and over again on every single thread and the ones who don’t act like you gotta be some D&D sycophant in order to comment.
Mr Derp,
I agree and I really enjoy it too! Especially with fans who leave thoughtful assessment and I see that happen quite a bit on this site 🙂 I don’t always agree but it gives me a new perspective and ideas to consider (I still reflect on that discussion with Inga back in June and not just in relation to GoT but to real-life scenarios).
I though, just a couple to choose from, this would be easy. But it was not. I liked all but I had made my choice:
Episode 3: Jon and Daenerys take on the Night King by moonlight, with their dragons.
One of the most beautiful visual scenes that I ever watched on a tv show. It become my mobile screensaver.
Episode 5:
Daenerys and Drogon lay waste to King’s Landing with dragonfire.
The horror was beautifully shown on screen. Everything turned to dust. But in episode 5 my favorite visual was:
The Clegane Brothers fight to the death as King’s Landing burns.
Beautiful.
Episode 6:
Daenerys make a speech to her legions, and spreads her wings.
The dragon shows herself.
and
Drogon sleeping in the snow. (which was really ash).
Azor Asshai,
It seems we have the same top 5.
Adrianacandle,
I always like your comments.
Mr Derp,
I get the road rage. Some people lose their sh*t when they get cut off in traffic. It’s almost understandable that Dany went Full Dracarys in the heat of battle.
It was afterwards, when she gave her speech vowing to “liberate” the whole country in the same manner as she’d just “liberated” the residents of KL, that it was clear she’d gone esy over the deep end.
She should’ve calmed down by that point, and excused herself, e.g.: “Oops. My bad! Sorry sweetheart. I got carried away. We cool?”
Well, I voted for Arya’s scenes. Because ASNAWP.
But I also had to vote for Dany spreading her wings, because that was cool as hell. I’ll probably have to vote for that in the final round.
Ten Bears,
Never drunk drive a dragon.
No One would have guessed that 😉
Mr Derp,
I really wanted to vote for “Clegane brothers fight to the death as KL burns,” but…
• When Gregor’s helmet came off I heard a voice in my head: “Luke. I am your father.”
• As I recently explained in another thread, I liked how the show wrapped up Arya & Sandor’s story in S8, with one minor nagging detail: After Sandor convinced Arya to abandon her hit on Cersei because Cersei was as good as dead already, when Sandor saw Cersei very much alive as he climbed the stairs, he let her scoot right by him! He should’ve fulfilled his protege’s mission and bisected her with his big f*cking sword, while snarking something like “The Starks send their regards” or “Remember that ‘filthy little animal’ you couldn’t find?”
• The long range shot of two little blobs falling into the burning rubble looked a tad cartoonish.
• They edited out the follow up scene where a Red Priestess unearths Sandor’s corpse and resurrects him. 🤫 “The Lord of Light isn’t done with you yet.”
kevin1989,
I’ll have you know I did not vote for “NK, WWs and Viserion shatter and explode.” Though the majority of viewers went wild over that Arya ex machina moment, to me it looked like she had been beamed down from the Starship Enterprise’s transporter room and materialized in mid-air at NK’s precise coordinates.
I like yours too! 🙂 And I really enjoy reading your speculations!
It was hard for me to pick just five. I wanted to vote for “Smoke and flame rise as Drogon makes runs on the wights with Sansa and Arya watch from the walls” too — next time if it makes it!
I wouldn’t put it past her.
This is the first time I couldn’t pick 5. So many of the scenes had Dany and Drogon destroying things, , that I did’t really care , they were all good!
Ten Bears,
I loved that scene in the library, but visually it wasn’t the cgi that made it great, but the blocking, and Maisie’s acting
My choices
dragon dance in the moonlight,
drogon burning the iron throne and flying away with dany
Dany and her Leni Riefenstahl moment (the wings behind her took my breath away)
arya kills NK and all the dead shatter
ash,
decided to add Dany saves Jon; rewatching it the whole sequence was pretty amazing
The most beautiful visual scene for me was Drogan burning down the Iron Throne and carrying Dany away. The Throne was the evil thing that made Dany change. Drogan saw that her quest for that got her killed. Jon and Dany could not marry because of the blood line being too close- their children could be greatly effect. But ruling together would have been better than Bran the Broken who basically left everything in Tryion’s hands.
TB, Mr. Derp, Nick, & Adriana speaking so much truth.
I…forget which five I actually voted for, but I did jot down my approximate ranking yesterday after voting, so I guess it was probably the first five (100% sure about #1.)
-Dothraki charge
-moonlight flight fight
-Dany saves Jon
-dead rising
-Viserion/AotD attack Winterfell
-Dany attacks NK
-Dany attacking the wight supremacists
-sleeping Drogon
-Cleganebowl
-Jon’s first flight
-wights in the library
-Dany+Drogon destroy IF/GC/gates
…why’d this go through and not the list of my favorite quotes or various other comments…B-/
This will be a hard one to pick. Watching “Game Of Thrones” through it’s eight seasons run, was like watching a giant movie spanning 73 episodes. The production values and effects were simply outstanding, often, if not most of the times, surpassing those of many cinematic counterparts, including big-budget ones.
Shows like GOT, “ROME”, “Deadwood”, and miniseries like “Band Of Brothers”, “The Pacific”, “John Adams”, Generation Kill”(just to stay within HBO) broke through the TV/movie divide and now with several high-budget productions, current and upcoming those lines become even blurrier…
This is a difficult one with so many good options! I went for the Evil dany and drogon spreading his wings behind (just such an iconic moment) along with a number of Long Night moments.
Ten Bears,
Amazing scene, and Arya doing it was the right choice.
Adrianacandle,
Thanks, and I like that you all like it. I drive my partner insane with it who didn’t read the books. And I’m happy that I can talk about it here, gives him a bit of a rest (to his ears)
kevin1989,
”Amazing scene, and Arya doing it was the right choice.”
Opinions vary. I’m glad you liked that scene. I recognize you’re not the only one who’s praised the Arya-NK scene…
https://imgur.com/gallery/p8W5oxG
ash,
I will say this: Arya pulverizing NK was sure a crowd pleaser. Fans reacted like their team scored the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl on a Hail Mary from midfield on 4th down with 0:02 left on the clock.
This is proof, Arya and the Night King faked the Night Kings dead.
kevin1989,
He dead.
https://pics.me.me/picture-of-arya-and-night-king-55305571.png
👸🏻🔪
This is the only category I’m voting for
This is what I loved the most about season 8 apart from QUEEN IN THE NORTH
Drogon being attacked by wights in the Dany saves Jon scene is still the 1 that gets me in the feels though – it’s drogon like never before – most of the aerial shots look like they reused the same animation/CGI and then tweaked it but that shot of Drogon flying away covered by wights trying to shake them off while he’s flying is just something else
Say what you want about season 8 but it gave us the most amazing shots of Dragons ever in cinema/tv history
1. Danerys and Drogon lay waste to King’s Landing.
2. Jon and Danerys take on the Night King in the moonlight, with their dragons.
3. Winterfell falls apart as Viserion and the dead attack.
4. The Dothraki charge
5. Danerys makes a speech to her legions, and spreads her wings.
Mr Derp,
Was there a way for Jon to ride a dragon without it seeming corny to you?
Jon’s parentage played an important role in Dany’s burning down King’s Landing. That’s far from nothing. The only way for it to play a bigger role would be if Jon ended up as king in the end, which was never going to happen.
Again, the White Walkers playing a part in Dany’s turn is no small thing. I don’t know why you’re trying to downplay it. Danerys burning down King’s Landing was one of the biggest plots of the entire show. Dany’s entire storyline was leading towards it. Besides, the White Walker storyline advanced much of the story and they were defeated in an epic fashion. I, for one, was not disappointed in the slightest.
Nick20,
Except Jon had already made his wishes known to Varys and Sansa, and yet they ignored his wishes and attempted to usurp Danerys and replace her with a king they both wanted. The other lords would have done the same, as they would much prefer someone who was raised by a respected House and lived in Westeros their entire lives. He also happens to be male, which would be a major plus for them.
Them getting married was discussed and it was debunked. Danerys didn’t bring it up because Jon kept pulling away every time she tried to get intimate.
Besides all of that, Jon’s parentage played a role in her burning down King’s Landing, but it wasn’t the only role. Jon’s parentage made Danerys turn against the view advisers she had left, so there was no one to temper her worst impulses. She burned down King’s Landing for the same reason she crucified the 163 slavers after taking Mereen and she threatened to burn down Astapor and Yunkai. It was to punish the people of King’s Landing for choosing Cersei over her.
Ten Bears,
It would have been an ex machina moment if Hot Pie had been the one who killed the Night King. It had already been established that Arya was in the area, that she was capable of sneaking past wights, and that she was on her way to kill the Night King. The moment was set up properly, so it can’t be considered to be Deux Ex Machina.
Does it matter? What I saw onscreen was corny to me. Get over it. If you liked it then great.
All of these subplots, in the end, that lasted 8 SEASONS, were nothing more than devices to get rid of Dany’s advisors and allies to service Dany’s fall, which to me, was disappointing and unconvincing. I’m supposed to believe that Dany needed her advisors in order to be successful and check her impulses, but the show was always inconsistent on this to begin with, which is a problem for me.
Missandei: “I have seen you listen to your counselors. I have seen you lean on their experience when your own was lacking and weigh the choices they put before you. And I have seen you ignore your counselors because there was a better choice. One that only you could see.”
So, according to Dany’s best friend and confidant, she really didn’t need her advisors to make good decisions at all, but apparently, she did and that’s what made her go crazy? Um, ok. Sure. Not convincing, but sure.
Other posters have also pointed out that, even if the news of Jon’s parentage was revealed to Westeros, would anyone care? Jon could have all the support in the world to convince him to take the throne, but he never wanted it, and never would take it, no matter how badly others wanted him to. Nothing could happen without Jon agreeing to pursue the throne. Besides, Cersei took the throne by force, not through bloodlines, and no one tried to stop her except for Dany, so it’s silly to think that Westeros would just rally around someone that’s the blood heir to the throne all of a sudden. The common folk don’t care about the games the high lords play.
It would also have been more than logical for Dany and Jon to discuss a marriage once the parentage was revealed. or at least, after they had some time to digest the news. I know….this is where you tell me that Dany’s paranoia or ego wouldn’t allow for that to happen but, in season 6 episode 10 Dany and Tyrion agreed that she would need to find a suitable partner for marriage, so Dany was open to the idea prior to season 8. However, she suddenly became a different person in season 8, which made all of this fizzle out like a fart in the wind. Her ego went through the roof and she started treating everyone like garbage. She wasn’t like that before. Perhaps Jon wouldn’t agree to the marriage, but we’ll never know because it was never discussed. Dany was also never a paranoid person before season 8, but suddenly she became a headcase because of the ultimate, “it’s in her blood” cop-out. If that’s convincing to you, then great, but it didn’t work for me.
And yes, I agree with you that Jon would probably wouldn’t have gone along with a marriage, but then why is he still repeating “you’ll always be my queen” to her every chance her got in season 8? It’s inconsistent. Also, if Jon really cared about what’s good for the realm, then he should’ve considered marriage as a viable option to keep the peace in Westeros.
In the end, the main purpose of the WW was to kill off Jorah, which was supposed to feed into the “Dany needs her advisors” point, which I’ve already mentioned was inconsistent to begin with. Didn’t Dany even tell Jon afterwards that Jorah loved her but she couldn’t love him back? I mean, if she never loved him then his death really shouldn’t have that great of an impact on her, yet here we are.
I know how much you love the ending. You don’t really need to keep going out of your way to remind me. If you feel the need to get upset and defend the show against anyone that has a criticism of it, then you’re going to be fighting these battles forever.
Young Dragon,
”It would have been an ex machina moment if Hot Pie had been the one who killed the Night King.”
Fine, it wasn’t Arya ex machina… You know I’m an ASNAWP fanboy; it wasn’t so much that Arya was the one who whacked “that horned f*cker” – it was Arya materializing out of thin air that I wasn’t thrilled with – especially after learning that scenes showing Arya fighting her way to the Godswood had been scripted, but then scrapped in favor of the surprise leap.
However… I would have LOVED a Hot Pie ex machina moment!
Young Dragon,
Also, The WW were able to breach the Wall with Viserion, but that lasted what, two episodes and had no lasting impact on anything. The WW were defeated very quickly afterwards and went back to mythical status soon afterwards. The show could’ve completely skipped the WW’s without missing any essential plot beats. Dany went “crazy” because she lost her advisors. They could’ve killed her advisors off any number of ways and still came to the same conclusion.
I can envision a scene where the NK is about to kill Bran until Hot Pie comes along with a poisoned pie, offering him a slice with the NK completely unawares. Even the NK can’t refuse a piece of Hot Pie’s kidney pie, don’t you know…
Ten Bears,
Hot pie: you know the best way to make some lemonade is with some fresh ice cubes.
Arya: say no more.
*horned fucker down*
Mr Derp,
Xdxdxd
Mr Derp,
…Or Hot Pie comes along and without asking pulls up a chair and starts talking nonstop about recipes and cooking techniques until NK can’t stand it any longer, grabs a dragonglass spear, and impales himself with it.
Ten Bears,
Yep. That’s the one. I love it. Hot Pie, the chatterbox that was promised.
Can we add a line for the NK right before he impales himself? Something like, “If I fall, don’t bring me back”?
Hot Pie comes along and without asking pulls up a chair and starts talking nonstop about recipes and cooking techniques until NK can’t stand it any longer, grabs a dragonglass spear, takes one last angry look at Hot Pie before turning to Melisandre, saying “If I fall, don’t bring me back”, and impales himself with it.
Mr Derp,
“You a knight?”
“No I’m the Night Ki….”
“… Cuz you got armor on, and them’s that got armor on is knights, generally speaking. Why just the other day, I saw two knights in a battle. They come in for kidney pie. You see, the secret to a good kidney pie is all about the ingredients. Milk, eggs, butter. A good bottom round… calves kidneys. And oh, don’t get me started on the gravy. No gravy, no pie. You see, some people give up on the gravy…”
“Don’t say it. Don’t fookin…”
“You cannot give up on the gravy!”
“Kill me!!!”
Young Dragon,
(You kind of started this. 🙃)
👨🏼🍳
Relax. It was an honest question. I just saw Jon riding a dragon for the first time, and it didn’t come off as corny to me. I was only wondering what made it corny to you. Was it the location? The fact that he was flying with Danerys? Or was it simply because Jon was flying a dragon?
You can use that same exact argument for every plot point in the show. Ned’s beheading was simply a plot device to jump start the war with the Lannisters and send the Stark children on their journey, the Red Wedding was simply a plot device to clear the way for Jon to become king, the Hound’s fight with Brienne was a plot device to send Arya to Braavos, Theon attacking Winterfell was a plot device to send Bran North, etc. These plots all mattered in the grand scheme of the story and played a significant role in pushing the story forward. The White Walker plot is no different.
The show was not inconsistent at all, simply because Missandei said that. Missandei may have believed it to be true, but that does not make it true, especially since the show has shown that Danerys makes the wrong decisions. Against Ser Barristan’s advice, Danerys crucified 163 slavers, at least one of which was innocent of the crime she was accusing him of. That was a mistake. After Ser Barristan’s death, Danerys fed an innocent man to one of her dragons, because she didn’t have any advisers around to say otherwise. That was a mistake. She went against Tyrion’s advice and needlessly executed Dickon Tarly. That was a mistake. One quote from Missandei, Dany’s best friend, doesn’t change any of this.
And as I’ve already pointed out, yes they most certainly would care. People were already acting against Jon’s wishes to sit him on the throne. It would have only gotten worse if all of Westeros knew the truth. Jon was simply the more preferable candidate than Danerys. And as Varys pointed out, he wouldn’t have a choice in the matter. And yes, things could happen without Jon agreeing to take the throne. Varys tried to poison Danerys to make Jon’s path to the throne much easier. The reason Cersei was able to take the throne was because the only one contending with her was a woman who was raised in a foreign land, who brought a foreign army and three flying beasts to supposedly set their lands on fire. Jon was raised in Westeros by a well respected House, and he was a male, which made him the preferable choice.
Dany was open to the idea when Dany’s “suitable partner for marriage” didn’t have a better claim to the throne than she did. She was not at all a different person in season 8. She was the same person. She snapped at people all the time in seasons 1-6. Maybe it’s different now because shes snapping at some of your favorite characters. Are you a Jon and Sansa fan, by any chance? Like I said, Danerys never brought up marriage because Jon turned away from her every time she tried to become intimate. Why should she bring it up after that? Other than that, it was brought up by Tyrion and Varys, though Varys explained why it would never work. Danerys didn’t snap because “it’s in her blood” but because she has a habit of punishing her enemies, of whom the people of King’s Landing had become.
How is Jon saying “you’re my queen” inconsistent with him not wanting to marry her? Ned considered Robert his king but that didn’t mean he wanted to marry him. Jon had no way of knowing what was about to happen. If he did, I’m sure he would have married her in an attempt to stop it.
She was talking about romantically, she didn’t love Jorah. She still considered him to be a great friend and trusted in his advice. Losing such a dear friend whose been with her since she began her journey would most certainly have a great impact.
And you’ve made it perfectly clear you disliked the ending, and yet that hasn’t stopped you from posting your opinion about it. Why should it stop me from posting mine?
Ten Bears,
Yeah, I know how much you love Arya. It’s a stupid pet peeve of mine when people incorrectly use literary terms. I get the same way when people misuse the word plot hole, which is constantly. I meant no offense.
Arya killing the Night King is probably the scene I replayed the most during Season 8. The music and the tension were so perfect, and I remember how I was on the edge of my seat during that entire final sequence. It was a breathtaking moment for me. I’m sorry you were left disappointed.
Ten Bears,
I regret nothing.
Mr Derp,
1. Relax. It was an honest question. I just saw Jon riding a dragon for the first time, and it didn’t come off as corny to me. I was only wondering what made it corny to you. Was it the location? The fact that he was flying with Danerys? Or was it simply because Jon was flying a dragon?
2. You can use that same exact argument for every plot point in the show. Ned’s beheading was simply a plot device to jump start the war with the Lannisters and send the Stark children on their journey, the Red Wedding was simply a plot device to clear the way for Jon to become king, the Hound’s fight with Brienne was a plot device to send Arya to Braavos, Theon attacking Winterfell was a plot device to send Bran North, etc.
The show was not inconsistent at all, simply because Missandei said that. Missandei may have believed it to be true, but that does not make it true, especially since the show has shown that Danerys makes the wrong decisions. Against Ser Barristan’s advice, Danerys crucified 163 slavers, at least one of which was innocent of the crime she was accusing him of. That was a mistake. After Ser Barristan’s death, Danerys fed an innocent man to one of her dragons, because she didn’t have any advisers around to say otherwise. That was a mistake. She went against Tyrion’s advice and needlessly executed Dickon Tarly. That was a mistake. One quote from Missandei, Dany’s best friend, doesn’t change any of this.
3. And as I’ve already pointed out, yes the other lords of Westeros most certainly would care. People were already acting against Jon’s wishes to sit him on the throne. It would have only gotten worse if all of Westeros knew the truth. Jon was simply the more preferable candidate than Danerys. And as Varys pointed out, he wouldn’t have a choice in the matter. And yes, things could happen without Jon agreeing to take the throne. Varys tried to poison Danerys to make Jon’s path to the throne much easier. The reason Cersei was able to take the throne was because the only one contending with her was a woman who was raised in a foreign land, who brought a foreign army and three flying beasts to supposedly set their lands on fire. Jon was raised in Westeros by a well respected House, and he was a male, which made him the preferable choice.
4. Dany was open to the idea when Dany’s “suitable partner for marriage” didn’t have a better claim to the throne than she did. She was not at all a different person in season 8. She was the same person. She snapped at people all the time in seasons 1-6. Maybe it’s different now because she’s snapping at some of your favorite characters. Are you a Jon and Sansa fan, by any chance? Like I said, Danerys never brought up marriage because Jon turned away from her every time she tried to become intimate. Why should she bring it up after that? Other than that, it was brought up by Tyrion and Varys, though Varys explained why it would never work. Danerys didn’t snap because “it’s in her blood” but because she has a habit of punishing her enemies, of whom the people of King’s Landing had become.
5. How is Jon saying “you’re my queen” inconsistent with him not wanting to marry her? Ned considered Robert his king but that didn’t mean he wanted to marry him. Jon had no way of knowing what was about to happen. If he did, I’m sure he would have married her in an attempt to stop it.
6. She was talking about romantically, she didn’t love Jorah. She still considered him to be a great friend and trusted in his advice. Losing such a dear friend whose been with her since she began her journey would most certainly have a great impact.
7. And you’ve made it perfectly clear you disliked the ending, and yet that hasn’t stopped you from posting your opinion about it. Why should it stop me from posting mine?
Young Dragon,
”The reason Cersei was able to take the throne was because the only one contending with her was a woman who was raised in a foreign land, who brought a foreign army and three flying beasts to supposedly set their lands on fire.”
_____
Yeah, and wasn’t it ironic that Cersei’s “Mad King’s Daughter” propaganda speech in S7e2 (I think) proved to be prophetic?
Ten Bears,
Yes, I believe Cersei’s exact words were “the Mad King’s daughter will destroy the realm.”
this was so hard
I want to nominate all
reading these reminds me how amazing this season was <3
Ten Bears,
1. I am relaxed. You and I have had a couple of discussions about the ending before and both times the discussion ended with you apologizing to me and telling me that you were way out of line, so hopefully you can understand why I don’t have a particularly high tolerance for your questions at this point and why I question your motivations.
2. Yes, Ned’s beheading was a plot device and the Red Wedding was a plot device. The difference for me, is that they were actually interesting and compelling plot devices.
Dany going crazy because she lost her advisors is boring and uninspiring to me. The entire ending was shaped by a boring plot device.
For every foreshadowing of Dany going “mad” there’s just as much to suggest she wouldn’t go mad. She’s made just as many good decisions as bad ones, but you’re just highlighting the bad ones. You could go back and forth forever on this point and no one would be right or wrong, so it’s pointless to debate, but you can’t dismiss Missandei’s quote as meaningless. Why else would D&D choose to put that dialog in the show? Just to trick me later on? If that’s the case, then that’s poor writing and writing in bad faith.
3. But the lords of Westeros didn’t care. They didn’t do anything to stop Cersei from taking over, even after they found out that she murdered hundreds/thousands of people to do so. They already had a male king in Tommen, but no one gave a crap when he died. The notion that the lords would rise up to support Jon after simply finding out that he’s a male heir is not backed up by anything that actually happened. You can speculate all you want, but what happened doesn’t reflect a continent that is desperate for a male heir, or even a change in leadership, for that matter.
Well, in their last scene together right before Jon stabbed Dany, Dany was talking to Jon about ruling together and breaking the wheel together, so she clearly still thought this was a possibility in some capacity. I’m actually glad you brought this up, because this speaks to the disjointed nature of the last couple of seasons, which is where most of my criticism resides.
In one scene, Jon tells Dany that he cannot be intimate with her, Dany tells Jon that his parentage cannot be revealed in a threatening manner, and then the conversation ends with Dany all pissy and stating that she’s resigned to ruling by fear. It’s clear at that point that they both see the danger in their relationship. However, the very next time Dany and Jon speak, she’s talking to him about ruling and breaking the wheel together. It’s completely disjointed. It feels like there’s a scene or two missing in between.
5. Yes, Ned considered Robert his king, but not unconditionally. As soon as Robert went against what Ned thought was right, he quit as Hand of the King.
However, even after Dany burned KL to the ground, Jon is still going on like a bot about how Dany will always be his queen. It’s disjointed and makes no logical sense. Especially when you consider that Jon is a man of principles and would never put up with something so horrible unless he was unconditionally in love with her. It took a ridiculous amount of convincing from Tyrion just to get Jon to do anything. He wouldn’t have done anything at all had Tyrion not brought up his sisters. Sounds like someone who’s in love to me, yet he apparently wasn’t, so…confusion abounds.
6. Impact?, yes. Contribute to making her go crazy? No. She banished him twice. She clearly didn’t feel that he was an essential part of her being a successful ruler, so her losing him in season 8 really should be something that she’s used to and not cause a mental illness.
7. The difference should be pretty clear and obvious. When I post a criticism, I don’t post it directly to you. However, you are directly posting to me about how much you love the ending. See the difference? You can post how much you loved the ending all you want, I just don’t know why you need to post it to me directly. The only reason I can think of would be so you can start an argument.
Mr Derp,
1. I believe that was once, and I apologized for my intensity and for my assertion that you were only saying your criticisms to get back at D&D, of which you clearly weren’t and were only stating your opinion. I did not and will not, however, apologize for the arguments that I have been making, as they are still sound until you can prove otherwise. And let’s not forget that you hardly conducted yourself in a respectful manner either, even though I drew first blood.
2. I never denied that Danerys has done some great things in the past, but some people completely ignore the terrible things she’s done and try to justify them. I’ve even met a poster, not on this site, who justified Danerys burning down King’s Landing and were angry at D&D for painting the action in a negative light.
Danerys was capable of doing terrific things, but she was just as capable of committing terrible atrocities. Unfortunately, the perfect storm of pain and misfortune hit Danerys all at once. After that, her turn was inevitable.
3. I’ve already answered this. The reason is that they didn’t have a better option than Cersei. Their only other choice was the Danerys Targaryen and her army of foreigners.
4. No, Danerys does not see the danger in the relationship. She very much wants to be with Jon, but he does not want to be with her anymore, on account of their relation. It was not disjointed at all, your interpretation of that scene was simply way off.
5. Now you’re going off your original point. You said Jon not wanting to marry Danerys yet still calling her queen was a contradiction. That makes absolutely no sense.
I never said Jon didn’t love Danerys. His relation to her made marriage impossible, as he was raised in the North and was taught different values from Danerys. And yes, killing Danerys should not have been an easy decision for Jon, if D&D wanted to remain true to his character. Jon should have needed convincing. That’s the reason that scene worked so well.
6. Yes, because banishment and death are the same thing. She forgave him and invited him back into her inner circle. She considered him one of her closest friends and advisers. Besides, losing him wasn’t the reason she burned down King’s Landing. He may have been the only one to talk her out of it, and his death prevented that.
7. This site is open to the public. You should expect by now that your opinions will be questioned. My opinions are questioned all the time, on this site and others, and you don’t see me complaining about it.
Here we go again. “Drew first blood”, “sound” arguments, etc…You really are your own #1 fan, aren’t you.
I’ll address a few of your points, but I have no real interest in going down this rabbit hole again with you, so I’ll keep this as brief as I can.
If the show ended with a female Kingsguard and queen in the north, then why should it be assumed that Westeros is pining for a male heir to the throne? For all the talk on the show about how males are preferred, it really didn’t turn out to be that way in the end. Nobody really cared one way or another. It’s not like Westeros rejected Dany because of her gender. She was rejected because of her dragons and she was “foreign”, as you yourself stated. Westeros also just finished a destructive war, yet you think that Westeros is going to rally and start another war to get Jon to take over? You can think that all you want, but it doesn’t make much sense based on what we say play out on screen.
All you’re doing is starting an argument, no more, no less. Stop pretending otherwise. You should know very well by now that I’m all about people speaking their mind. I never said you couldn’t tell me that you loved the ending. I’m simply questioning what purpose it serves when I already knew that to begin with and none of my comments were addressing you. You know the answer. So you can start an argument. Just because you CAN do somerhing doesn’t mean you SHOULD.
I actually was respectful for the first, I don’t know, million back and forths that we had, which were all motivated by you. However, by the time we got to the end of the conversation, you had already insulted me numerous times and did your best to try and antagonize me. By the end, I had enough and pushed back. If you’re going to act like a jerk then you better well believe that I’m going to defend myself. You shouldn’t have been surprised how things turned out at all. You asked for it and you got it.
Besides, the fact that you were so frustrated by my viewpoint made me seriously worry about your mental state, or if you were dealing with some butthurt issue, so I wanted to offer my recommendation that you get some cream to put on whatever hurt, so you could feel better. Just trying to give some sage medical advice 😉
Mr Derp,
“Drew first blood” is actually a mark against me, so I’m not sure why you have a problem with that. I know for sure my arguments are sound, as you haven’t even come close to debunking them. And you never will if you keep coming up with arguments like “Jon calling Danerys his queen and not wanting to marry her contradict one another”, when they don’t, and “Danerys came to accept that a marriage with Jon would be dangerous”, when she did nothing of the sort. As for me being my number one fan, I probably am, but that’s not saying much. Confidence in oneself is not a bad thing, so long as you don’t become overconfident. I have not, or else I would have insisted that I did nothing wrong in our past interaction, whereas I fully took responsibility for my unacceptable behavior.
The king chooses the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, so your point about Brienne is moot. The North isn’t all of Westeros, and Sansa has proven herself to the Northern lords. She expertly managed Northern affaires when Jon was away and she was the one who gave them their independence in the first place. Besides, Jon was in exile and Bran was king of the Six Kingdoms, so there was no male heir to contest her claim. Regardless of all of this, Jon being male was only one of the reasons I gave for why the lords of Westeros would prefer him over Danerys.
So my comments bother you? That’s odd, because I remember telling you rehashing old criticisms in Award articles designed to celebrate the show was bothering me, and yet you carried on. I behaved very inappropriately, but I’ve learned my lesson and no longer have any problem with you exercising your right to bash the show. I have every right to comment to you on why I disagree with your opinion, just as you have every right to give it, so long as you do it in a respectful manner. Unfortunately, you didn’t learn from my mistake and now you are the one who is acting inappropriately.
See, now you have crossed the line. In our past interaction, you may think my behavior made it acceptable to be rude and condescending in return, something I don’t agree with at all but whatever, but what’s your excuse this time? I’ve conducted myself in a respectful manner. If only you could have done the same.
It was a joke, dude. I thought that was pretty obvious. You complained about this last time too even though you already admitted that you were the one who started it. Stop aggressively coming after me and then complain when I give it right back to you.
Someone with as much self-proclaimed confidence as you say you have shouldn’t get so easily offended. Contrary to your self-assessment, I think the vast majority of your comments on this site are either condescending or rude, so you have no room to talk and I don’t feel badly for you. I haven’t crossed any line other than some imaginary line in your head that exists only to you.
Being your own #1 fan is a perfect example of overconfidence and arrogance. Who the hell admits to that? This is also why I wrongly interpreted your “first blood” comment. I just assumed it was another self-congratulatory comment, which you have a habit of making, so my bad for that.
I didn’t say that your comments bothered me. I said they were pointless and only existed just to start an argument with me. It’s no coincidence that you posted who you voted for and then immediately proceeded to go after my comment right afterwards. You wanted to go after me, but then you remembered that you should stay on topic first, so you made your post and then focused on me. I know you won’t admit to it, and that’s ok. You don’t have to. You seem to have a thing for me.
I also remember you declaring “victory” for yourself in the previous conversation, despite the fact that the other posters who chimed in during our conversation agreed with me. This is the act of someone who is arrogant. There’s no purpose in having a debate with someone who has that kind of mindset. It’s like reading Trump’s tweets. It would be more productive talking to a wall.
Mr Derp,
I started it last time, you’re starting it this time. Questioning my mental state is in no way a joke, especially since you’re clearly not saying it in good taste. I haven’t been condescending at all. I’ve stated my opinions in a very reasonable manner. You say that I’m easily offended when you falsely claim I have a mental illness, joke or not, yet you’re offended simply because I’m questioning your argument.
Who else would be my number one fan? What does that even mean? People like you and me don’t have fans, only ourselves. Liking yourself isn’t arrogant, it’s only healthy.
You seem to be really bothered, I don’t know what else to tell you. And why exactly do you have a problem for me posting my vote? I don’t understand that.
I claimed victory because I debunked your argument. I believe you questioned how Rhaegal could be hit by the bolts but Drogon couldn’t. Well, Rhaegal was injured and was flying slower, plus he didn’t see the attack coming. Drogon, on the other hand, was at full strength and knew the attack was coming. That’s it. It’s very simple explanation and you couldn’t argue against it, you eventually stopped trying. Declaring victory isn’t arrogance, it’s a fact. I don’t care how many posters chimed in to support you, it doesn’t make you any more right. If you want to prove yourself right, you need to try a lot harder than that.
The visual effects have been as good as ever in Game of Thrones. Some shots were better than ever. I could have chosen ten of those scenes.
I went for:
– Dothraki charge
– Dragons dancing in the moonlight
– Destruction of KL
– Drogon awakening beneath the snow (or ash)
– Drogon trying to revive Daenerys/burning the IT/carry her corpse away
Young Dragon,
I went back and watched the scene recently.
So, Dany and crew were warned about the Iron Fleet right before they left for Dragonstone, which just happens to be right next to enemy territory in Blackwater Bay/KL. Dany was flying with a hurt dragon in tow and she’s about to emerge out in the open near enemy territory. Instead of being alert and on guard, which anyone with half a brain would do, Dany was staring longingly at Rhaegal completely unaware of her surroundings which is really what got him killed. Everyone else seemed surprised by the attack too in the one place where they should’ve suspected an ambush, including Tyrion and the Unsullied, yet you can’t agree that doesn’t make all of them look like imbeciles? None of those characters were ever that monumentally dumb before. That whole scene was a dumpster fire. Anyone that dumb deserves to lose.
And I wasn’t questioning your mental state nearly as much as I was questioning your butt 😉
Mr Derp,
Danerys was riding Drogon to do recon of the surrounding area, looking for an ambush. She was momentarily distracted by Rhaegal’s injury and looked over at him in concern when Euron struck. So no, there was nothing stupid about that scene. And by surprise you mean Dany’s forces ran for cover after Euron started attacking them? That seems to be the normal reaction, whether they suspected the attack was coming or not. Regardless, that wasn’t your argument before. You questioned how Drogon could dodge all the bolts but Rhaegal couldn’t, for which I’ve already provided the explanation.
Young Dragon,
There wasn’t an argument before. That’s kind of why your entire disposition is bizarre to me in the first place. Sometimes when we talk, it feels like you’re the only one in court attending a trial that no one else is attending or even knew existed.
I think the exact quote that started this was I said something like “the less said the better” when it came to Rhaegal’s death scene, and you jumped all over me for not liking the scene. You even told me that it was off-topic even though the purpose of my comment was to answer one of the votes in the article itself. It was an on-topic as it gets. You yourself admitted it bothered you and took away your enjoyment despite the fact that your reasoning was based on a false premise that I was being off-topic.
I have many reasons why I didn’t like the scene. The logistics of it was one, and the utter stupidity of it all was another. I don’t need to have just one. I’m actually less interested in logistics than logic. If you don’t think that everyone completely shit the bed on that scene then I don’t know what else to tell you. I’ve never cared about convincing you in the first place though.
I don’t hate season 8 as much you want to think. I was disappointed with how rushed it was, how so many plot threads fizzled out like a fart in the wind, and how dumb a lot of the characters decision making was in order to expedite the ending. There were plenty of things that I liked about it though. I actually enjoyed the The Long Night more than a lot of people did, and even though I didn’t appreciate how Dany went about burning KL, I thought it was a terrific scene in itself. The knighting of Brienne was amazing. I just wish I felt that way about the rest of it. I’ve made my peace with it though, and I’m good with it.
Mr Derp,
No, that’s not correct. Jack Bauer 24 posted about how he loved that scene and thought it was well written, and you replied to him how it didn’t make sense that Rhaegal was hit by the bolts but Drogon managed to dodge them, and that’s when I commented. There was certainly an argument going on before I intervened, so your metaphor is wrong.
I already said I was in the wrong for telling you to stop posting criticisms in the Award articles. You have every right to do so.
I don’t think anyone “shit the bed,” but if you did, that’s your right to think so. I’m not interested in changing your mind either.
As for the rest of your post, fair enough.
Mr Derp,
Ummm… Mr. D? About your 10:50 am, 7-point comment:
I think you meant to reply to someone else, not me.
For me it’s mission impossible to choose which are the best scenes judging from the amount of work put in the visual effects or difficulty of getting the most realistic look. I can’t separate visual effects from the emotion they have brought to me. There are some visual effects too terrifying for me to make a pleasant rewatch – basicly the whole battle of Winterfell, but especially the skeletons resurrected in the crypts.
Shy Lady Dragon,
I kind of had that problem too. In addition, some scenes I liked weren’t really “visual effects” at all, e.g., Arya slicing and dicing wights: That was 90% Maisie whirling and twirling, with just a smidgeon of special effects to add wight faces onto her adversaries.
My vote in the final round will probably go to Dany unfolding “her” wings, because it gave off a Maleficent vibe, and reinforced to me that Dany fka Breaker of Chains had become a malevolent Weapon of Mass Destruction.
How to even BEGIN to choose ???