After spending most of season five looking at Winterfell intently, Brienne got quite a few superb moments in season six, first saving and pledging fealty to Sansa and then acting as her envoy in Riverrun with Jaime and the Blackfish. Sadly, season seven mostly sidelined Gwendoline Christie‘s character again, at least until the season finale. If you were one of the many worried that Brienne of Fucking Tarth wouldn’t get her due in the final season, Christie’s here to set us straight in a new Entertainment Weekly interview!
“Every couple of pages I thought I was dead,” she tells EW of her experience first reading the final scripts. “If you’re lucky enough to get to season 8, you expect to die on the first page. That’s the worst case scenario. The very worst case scenario is dying off screen. At one point while reading I said to my partner, ‘I think I died and nobody said anything.'”
As for her initial reactions, she admits she was left with “lots of questions. If there’s a character you care about and you feel like they go through some sort of hell you feel protective toward them.” Nevertheless, in the end Christie found the season eight scripts “hugely satisfying”, though she believes people will want the story to continue: “There’s something about this story that’s compulsive and essential. What [showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss] have done in terms of this being the final season is masterful. I don’t think there’s any way people aren’t going to want more.”
“I put my heart and soul into this project and thrown myself into it physically as well, which has been incredibly challenging this year,” she says, alluding to the gigantic Battle of Winterfell in which she—as well most of the cast—was involved for two months. “We get to see Brienne going full throttle doing what we all love to watch her do. It’s the crew I feel for. They’re the ones who are truly the face of brutal suffering when it comes to the relentlessness of the schedule and I deeply admire them for that. But the storyline is so great. I have the skills now where when I’m told there’s going to be a fight and it’s nine moves with 30 men running at you that I can do it. And the Winterfell set is huge, it’s enormous. I’ve worked on big things and this is enormous.”
If you fear we’ll only get to see Brienne swinging the sword and nothing else, do not worry, as Gwendoline Christie is here to assuage your doubts: “This season we see more of Brienne than ever before. I’m more involved this season and I’m delighted the character has been learning from everyone she’s been around. There’s been a timidness and a tense vulnerability that was the opposite of her physical strength,” she observes. “It’s been interesting to watch her embrace her intellect and humor and step forward in life and make decisions. I think this is a season where Brienne’s gender is really no longer an issue. She’s treated as an equal by all and that’s very pleasing.”
For more about when and how Christie first got to read the scripts and whether Brienne would like to ride a dragon, read the entire interview at Entertainment Weekly.
#ForTheThrone
Jack Bauer 24,
You’re cracking me up, Bauer.
As long as she survives to make giant babies with Tormund.
trarecar,
Ew.
Dang, no rest for the Watchers. I’m getting overwhelmed here 😂
But yaaay, thank you Luka for all this non-spoilery content haha.
“There’s been a timidness and a tense vulnerability that was the opposite of her physical strength.”
Honestly, that’s Brienne of Tarth beautifully summed up and only goes to show how well Gwendoline was invested in and dedicated to her character. Very excited to see how much more involved she is besides the battle.
Ugghhh! Trarecar, You philistine!
@OZ it’s not letting me quote you for some reason, but it’s all for the throne 😀 My attempts at this being the new “Hodor” may or may not work out lol.
“I have the skills now where when I’m told there’s going to be a fight and it’s nine moves with 30 men running at you that I can do it. And the Winterfell set is huge, it’s enormous. I’ve worked on big things and this is enormous.”
That’s my favorite bit from the interview. When she says “men” i wonder if she’s regretting to the AotD or Gold Cloaks? Or maybe just generalizing?
Also, Luka’s working overtime again lol!
Oh, I’m as happily hyped as everyone else, so this doesn’t feel like work, mostly 🙂
It was funny for a minute when it originally happened on-screen, but the obsession over the Brienne/Tormund thing is bordering on ridiculousness at this point.
Happy to hear Brienne will have a more prominent role this season. Always thought she was underutilized. I enjoyed her scenes with Pod very much.
Jack Bauer 24,
Please never change hahahaha it cracks me up how dedicated you are #ForTheThrone
Does “more of Brienne” sounds like an episode that will need parental guidance warnings?
Jaime is in town. Single and looking to mingle (or….a bedding after the wedding, or whatever works for them…)
Maybe Jaime’s seeing more of Brienne than ever bef…..oh wait.
Gwen is such a joy to watch, I can’t wait to see her battle scenes (while being completely anxious the whole time.)
LOL Hey, I am down with this. I just truly don’t see how Jamie and Brienne could ever be together, there’s no way. However, I was mostly making a joke – Brienne doesn’t have to end up with anyone making babies, she can continue to be the motherless bad ass that she is, I just want the woman to find some LOVE. Tormund actually digs her.
Mr Derp,
On my rewatch, the Brienne/Pod relationship became one of my favorite things in the show (admittedly, there are a lot of those, though). I can’t wait to see the two of them in action. Pod better get knighted by her 😀
Looper,
As Tyrion once said “There has never lived a more loyal squire”.
If I had to pick a list of underrated scenes in the show, which I also admit there are many, that scene with Tyrion and Pod is at the top.
I don’t feel too good about Pod surviving. Here’s hoping he gets to encounter another expert spear handler or two before his demise.
Brienne is in the show because of her story as a noble, courageous woman who has a leadership role confirmed for her but who is prepared to serve until her turn. She also young and has an idealistic viewpoint. Her exchanges with Jaime help her to develop a more nuanced view of honour and life. Because a lot of the book was cut, her personal evolution and her interaction with smallfolk/Mad Cat are not in the series.
Jaime is the center of at least 3 stories by the author.
(i) Jaime primarily has an identity arc. In this arc, Jaime becomes more himself, the man he was meant to be.
(2) Jaime also has a redemption story – except this is one that is experienced mainly by the reader/viewer as we are invited to re-assess Jaime as we learn more about him. That is, it is us that have the primary change as the author tells us more.
(3) Jaime is also in the major love story of GOT. It has been set up since Season 2. D&D even spent CGI budget for his loving look at Tarth. Brienne is his great love. At this point, Brienne has been waiting in the series for Jaime to arrive and to start their joint story – by having a new beginning for both.
Mango,
You are as obsessed with Jaime as Ten Bears is with Arya 🙂
I’m not worried about Brienne. It’s Podrick I’m worried about. I want him to get more than two lines this season!
trarecar,
Jaime will supply all the lovin’ Brienne wants.
Do not give up on Jaime yet! Aint ded until the credit roll….
The great trick Keyser Swoze played was to make everyone believe he was dead.
I would agree if I thought was even possible.
I bow to the greatness that is Ten Bears.
Now, I think Jaime is one of the great fictional characters on TV and books. Of the 2000 GRRM characters, he is his greatest creation, methinks. As GRRM wrote – There are no men like me, only me.
So there is that.
I would also write about Tywin and Oleanna.
But they is ded and ded.
I am worried about Pod too.
I was astonished to see him in one photo standing out in front of troops as if he was going to be in the fighting alongside Brienne. It was worrying.
Mr Derp,
This is no joking thing. The Many-Faced Goddess is not to be mocked.
Mr Derp,
All the giant babies enthusiasm came from Kristofer Hivdju’s extraordinary performance as Tormund. What was just supposed to be a little look turned into a large, running bit. In the books, I agree with Mango, that Jaime and Brienne have something truly meaningful, but on the show, I want her to also be with Tormund! Or Yara. Or Arya (when she is a little older). Oh, heck. I just love Brienne!
You kinda look like Pod!
_______
Don’t know about the characters’ portrayals in the books. From the show, the greatest creations are:
1. Sandor
2. Jaime
3. Arya
4. Oberyn
5. S1-S4 Tyrion
Of course, the actors have a lot to do with that.
Pod is pretty great – especially that shit-eating grin. One of my favorite scenes of his is with Brienne when he set the rabbit on fire.
No way! ASNAWP is 1-3!!
Mr Derp,
It may more accurate to say I love the work that the author is doing with the character. GRRM is doing a lot with Jaime Lannister. So that is what is amazing for – what questions are GRRM exploring with this character? Not only the storylines but the themes. This is what makes Jaime as a character so rich.
Also, I love Tyrion and Peter. But since he joined up with the dragon crew, he seems to have lost his edge and layers
And I also love Jon. But his story lacks nuance and is a straightforward hero story. Not much to explore there. GRRM is not doing that much as far as I can see with Jon.
It’s funny how most people who read a news piece about a strong, loyal, brave character who happens to be a woman kind of get stuck to the whole idea that such a character has to also have a romantic arch. I mean, the Hound is also strong and as of late loyal, and noone cares about his love life.
Ten Bears,
I am comfortable with that list – everyone has different angles they like.
Sandor is played very well by the actor. You are very right here – I think that adds to the character rather than takes away. However, I have seen the” rouge bad guy who has the loveable tender heart” before in stories.
Also, GRRM went for a “religious conversion” after a near-death experience for Sandor’s personal evolution and change path. This is not as interesting to me from an author.
Sandor has one level at which the writer is working, not several as with Jaime. Nor does Sandor have the Cersei and Brienne angles that Jaime has. Sandor just has a simpler story for me.
Sou,
You have not seen the “Sandor-Sansa” love stories have you?
Lucky you. I wish that I had not!
No !!! Number one is surely Bronn.
Ten Bears,
I think you just forfeited your ASNAWP President card.
I didn’t know that Gwen’s OH was a fashion designer. Lovely article here from a while back. (You might have to sign up to read it but it’s free)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/fashion/people/game-of-thrones-actress-gwendoline-christie-talks-working-with-p/
Grandmaester Flash,
Those are mere characters on TV.
Almighty Bronn is a living man!
If Brienne and Pod survives, they should get a spin-off:
The Tales of Brienne and Pod.
—
What I love about Brienne is that if she’s not okay with something somebody does, she will tell it straight and in a way you can’t blame her afterward.
yah you’re wrong when it comes to the book Fans, Sansa-Sandor is the most popular ‘ship out there.
Seems the show has cut that. But it’s definitely a thing in the books.
Oh hey! The countdown timer is accurate now! 🙂
I’m happy to hear this.
Mango,
I don’t normally “want the woman to find a man,” but because she was mistreated so by men, I want someone to love her the way she deserves to be loved. I also want the Hound to be loved! I don’t think everyone needs a partner, but for those who have been marginalized and mistreated, I like to see them have some love in their lives. That is why Tormund’s infatuation is so wonderful. Everything he admires about her is what others used against her–her strength, her size, her purposefulness.
Cannot wait for Brienne and Jaime to go canon. Their slow burn has been both beautiful and excruciating. That bit about her beginning to make more decisions makes me wonder if it is Brienne who will make the first move.
Also happy to hear to we are going to see Brienne using her intellect and we get to see her sense of humour more. This is spot on what I have been hoping to hear.
And Gods be blessed for that. +10 points to the show.
If there had been more time, I’d have loved to see more interaction with Sandor and Brienne. One of my favourite bits of the entire show was from last season, the two of them walking to the pit talking about Arya, and each giving a half smile to the other that they just missed. Hee. From trying to murder each other, to a sort of begrudging respect – I love it.
Roberta Baratheon,
“Everything he [Tortmund] admires about her is what others used against her–her strength, her size, her purposefulness.”
I can see Your point and thought about that, too.
Everyone seem to wish, Brienne should change, give up her knightly, martial behavior, become softer, more womanly, perhaps even kind of weaker.
In peacetime with Tormund she could be, what she is, with Jamie…?
Pigeon,
This.
Do you think Jaime would actually want or expect her to change who she is? I think he knows her better than that.
I’m not sure, Clob.
Here I am thinking Brienne of fucking Tarth is a strong, independent woman who don’t 👏🏽need 👏🏽no 👏🏽 man! She was ready to forsake all relationships to join Renly’s kingsguard/rainbow guard. In a way I think she still sort of embodies this abstinence in all things that would distract her now that she’s sworn to Sansa. She takes her oaths seriously and may wish not to enter into any relationship despite what she may feel for Jaime. But would def be down to see that Brienne and Pod spinoff show.
Jaime literally gave Brienne a priceless Valyrian steal sword to help her on her knightly quest, a major basis of their relationship is formed from mutual trust and Jaime being one of the few to truly respect Brienne for who she is and her capability as a knight.
You’re right, she definitely doesn’t need a man. But wanting a man (specifically Jaime, and there is no doubt she does) and wanting love, doesn’t make her less empowered, strong and independent. She can have both.
This is awesome. Thanks WotW for adjusting it.
whateverdgaf,
I also think that Jamie sees some of himself, or part of who he wants to be, in Brienne. I think he wants to be known and respected more for his heroic deeds, but his pride and arrogance gets in the way. It’s like Tywin said in season 1 when Jamie tries to dismiss people’s opinions about him (“I could care less what people think of me”), “No, that’s what you want people to think.”
Che,
But wanting a man (specifically Jaime, and there is no doubt she does) and wanting love, doesn’t make her less empowered, strong and independent. She can have both.
And I completely agree with you there. Of course she can have both. She also loved Renly for what he did when she was younger: “He saved me from being a joke.” I feel like she loves Jaime for the same reason. In world where men constantly underestimated her and saw her as a joke, he got to know who she was. If this wasn’t Westeros, I would totally ship them… unfortunately for them this is, and Brienne failed Renly, then Cat (until S7), that I don’t think we’ll see her enter a relationship. It will be enough for her perhaps if Jaime confesses his love for her, but Jaime figuring out his own emotions outside of Cersei is another question.
Enharmony1625,
Yes! NCW gave a great interview where he states that Jaime undergoes a realisation about Brienne and how “She is so like me!”
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/la-en-st-game-thrones-nicolaj-coster-waldau-20180814-story.html
And that is truly what’s wonderful about their relationship. They are introduced as enemies, and opposites in every way. Handsome, arrogant, dishonourable quick talker Jaime, and sullen, stoic, ugly, honourable Brienne. And yet as they spend time together, it becomes increasingly obvious to themselves and the audience just how much they have in common.
Luka Nieto,
Haters gonna hate 😔 Tormund would treat her right and he’s totally true and uncomplicated. I’d have him in a heartbeat!
trarecar,
*raises a glass to you* I agree with this fully.
Clob,
I wasn’t listing “greatest creations” in descending order! I should’ve clarified that. Of course ASNAWP is #1. 👸🏻
I have a shorter attention span than a two year-old with Attention Deficit Disorder. I might very well have clicked off the remote after just a few minutes of the first episode… until Arya zinged the bullseye and took a bow. That hooked me. Not the White Walker using a NW ranger’s head as a bowling ball. Not direwolf puppies. Arya in a helmet belatedly joining the family lineup to greet King Robert, and mischievously flinging dessert at Sansa was icing on the cake.
Arya is the reason I kept watching. It was hard to believe the child actress playing her could be so good. I wasn’t emotionally invested in any other character right out of the gate. (Not knowing anything about the books, I would not have suspected that the brutish bodyguard with the hound helmet would be anything more than window dressing.)
_______
Except Sandor is not the typical rough guy with a tender heart. Nor did he undergo a religious conversion. He’s still the foul-mouthed, “f*ck off” kind of guy he was at the outset. Only twice has he dropped that mean motherf*cker facade that he “wears like armor”: When he told Arya about Gregor burning him (S4e7), and when he asked Brother Ray why the gods hadn’t punished him for the things he’d done (S6e7). Even so, right after that he picked up the axe and went back to doing what he does so well. 😀
Question for book readers: Do you think the showrunners expanded Sandor’s role because Rory MCCann was so good, or did GRRM always intend the Hound to become a prominent character?
I might have listed Bronn had he not suffered from the same post-S4 affliction as Tyrion: loss of his wittiness. From S5 on, there’s been a little too much “c*cks”, “no c*cks” banter from Bronn, and not enough of the razor-sharp zingers of pre-Blackwater Bronn, or the Bronn who visited Tyrion in his cell in S4e7.
No! I demand a trial by combat!
Ten Bears,
I wouldn’t say that his role was expanded. In the published books we have show equivalents for (through to the end of Season 4), the Hound’s role is smaller in the latter due to how much of his material from the first two books was excised. The need to stretch Arya’s last few ASOS chapters out to cover a full season means that those events feel bigger in the show, but the key stuff there is from the books as well.
He’s pretty clearly set up to reenter the narrative in the books, how and to what end yet to be determined.
Ten Bears,
“Only twice has he dropped…”
Thrice: When he burried Sally Stew and her father.
Ten Bears,
I saw Sandor looking into the fire and seeing a mountain or some crap like that. Then he was off to follow his vision. Did you not see that?
Only religious people see things in fire. That was all I needed.
How right you are! Besides, I think it’s going to be Jaime who pursues Brienne, and confesses to her what he hadn’t been able to admit to himself: that he loves her.
Also, while I don’t know if or how that famous bath scene was handled in the books, I would imagine that image of Brienne standing up naked – with no attempt to cover herself – has seared itself into Jaime’s memory.
Now that Jaime has the opportunity to get the Cersei toxins out of his system, he can rid himself of his unhealthy attachment to “such a hateful woman” and devote his attention to a good woman – someone who has faith in “Ser Jaime.”
Ten Bears,
If you think he is the same guy as he was at the outset – then it means that the author has done nothing with him at all. That is even worse – makes him much less interesting than Jaime.
Sandor is a loveable rogue type that evolved to become fatherly to Arya instead of only her captor – that seems to be the tender heart under the tough facade.
Then to make his story less unusual – he will likely have a face off with his brother soon. How many times have you seen that?
Rory was very good – great chemistry with everyone.
Roberta Baratheon,
I see what you are saying. I too want Tormund and Hound to be loved.
But I want Brienne to get the man she wants…her choice.
Yes, I saw that. He saw surveillance video in the flames because he is the Lord’s Chosen. Not because he’s now become one of the fire-worshipping zealots. The Lord of Light broadcast an AoTD visual to him.*
If there was any doubt that Sandor hasn’t become a devout worshipper, he dispelled it in S7e6 when he observed [not verbatim]: “All lords are c*nts. Don’t see why the Lord of Light should be any different.”. Not to mention his impatience with Beric in the Eastwatch cell in S7e5, when Beric was pontificating about the Lord of Light and Sandor cut him off: “Would you shut your hole!”
* I almost wish he hadn’t seen any visions. I cracked up when Thoros first asked him to look into the fire:
Thoros: “What do you see?”
Sandor: “Logs burning.”
🤣
Sou,
Just because we don’t vocalize it doesn’t mean we don’t care. Trust me. 😂
Ten Bears,
I am not sure how you are the Lord’s chosen without having some kind of conduit with him. That is religious enough for me.
If Hound has said it is only a log and walked off then fine – then no religion. But seeing and following a vision – he gone sort of holy no matter who he is cussing.
I do not think cursing is inconsistent with his new religiousness – Drunk Thoros was his priest for goodness sake.
You are right. I yield. However, I am not a Cleganebowl superfan; I hope Sandor doesn’t “have a face off with his bother.” The only Clegane vs. Clegane scenario I’d buy is if NK hacks the Mountain’s operating system and reprograms him into an AotD Superwight. Then I’d be okay with Sandor putting him down for good.
Ass kicking scheduled. I am backing you Ten Bears. Do not let me down!
Sandor’s role wasn’t expanded for the show. His character was softened a bit, and in the books he’s younger—hence the Sandor/Sansa shipping not having quite the ick factor it does for strictly TV viewers, especially given medieval mores (having a period=adulthood). In the books he does undergo a religious conversion; although it’s not explicitly stated that he’s the character at the monastery (it’s not a hippie commune in the book), it’s crystal-clear that it’s him. The digging of the grave in S7 Ep1 was a nod to the book, albeit in a very different situation.
Sean C.,
Working my way down the comments and just saw yours.
Ten Bears, what Sean said.
Ten Bears,
I agree – I am not interested in Clegane Bowl.
whateverdgaf,
Thanks for that link! I had not seen that NCW interview (LA Times, 8/14/18)
I liked this Q&A about Brienne:
Q: What are some of the key inflection points in Jaime’s arc?
NCW: “That he would lose his hand and meet this woman warrior, Brienne of Tarth. What happened on that journey was very human. He was raised in an extreme family — no mother, a very dominant father; he’s been primed for a very specific life. Suddenly, he’s with this woman, and that does change him profoundly.”
Wolfish,
Thanks for that clarification. For me, the highlight of the show (thus far) has been the Sandor & Arya traveling road show in S4.
Ten Bears,
*Phew*.. I was wondering there for a second. Who are you and what have you done to the real Ten Bears? 🙂
Mango,
“…3) Jaime is also in the major love story of GOT. It has been set up since Season 2. D&D even spent CGI budget for his loving look at Tarth. Brienne is his great love. At this point, Brienne has been waiting in the series for Jaime to arrive and to start their joint story – by having a new beginning for both.”
———-
Thank you for stating this! Brienne & Jaime is more realistic than any other “romance” story in the show. He starts out thinking she’s unattractive. She thinks she’s unattractive. He gets to know her and realizes she’s beautiful. At the same time, he slowly realizes how ugly Cersei is.*
I’m glad the show had the patience to develop the relationship as a “slow burn” over six (and hopefully seven) seasons.
* Incidentally… did Jaime never care that Cersei was boinking dweeb Lancel? I understand that in the books he’s upset that Cersei was with some other men and “Moonboy for all I know.”
No need for a trial by combat! It was a misunderstanding. Everyone can resume their anxious anticipation for season 8. #ForTheThrone #ASNAWP
Ten Bears,
Dunno.
I think Jaime in the GOT for some reason did not get into the Lancel discussion because D&D did not want to. He would have to leave Cersei and D&D needed him there.
Also, I think D&D made a better choice to have Jaime leave her over a matter of principle and values than over unfaithfulness. Plus the book is not done so no-one knows if he would go back to Cersei if he escaped Mad Cat. Because his kids are still alive when the book…well, the book, err…..
Odd viewpoint – I do not sweat the Lancel issue that much. Jaime was missing for a year, she slept with a guy that looked like him. These things happen. Even Tywin thought Jaime might not come back.
Also, the level of intimacy Jaime had with Brienne – not physical but emotional was far higher than what Cersei had with Lancel. That scene in the bath where he reached for her emotionally and the scene where Brienne first calls him Ser Jaime (sees him as man of honor) he was so grateful and moved. That is so unfaithful of him. Emotional contact like that is not so great for your marriage. He would be a bit of a hypocrite to dig too much into what Cersei was up to while he was away. In the book, things are different.
Ten Bears,
Saner Half loved the Traveling Road Show the first time, and even more on rewatch. As I wrote above, Sandor is much rougher in the books (and the relationship with Arya is as well), but the love he develops for her is apparent to those who can read the signs.
Which reminds me… I have yet to transcribe my favorite scene of theirs for you. Maybe this weekend, lol.
Mango,
Very perceptive comment.
Sansa is going to fall in love with Qhono, Dany’s bloodrider. I called it first!
As a matter of fact, I bet that’s who she’s taking food to.
Enharmony1625,
Just to say to you privately, I was also supporting you too…
But I suspected that in any fight on behalf of Arya, that Ten Bears would not lose. So TB was the better bet in this specific instance.
“I hope I got your measurements right.” That fool memorized every inch! In the books, Jaime standing up naked was seared into Brienne’s memory.
Sansa ain’t feedin’ the troops! From the trailer, she’s on the battlements with Arya on the eve of battle because she’s a
queenleader. She ain’t hiding in the Maidenvault with Varys this time!As a friendly reminder,
Rygritte,
…. And then there was this little exchange between Cersei & Brienne about Jaime (in S4e2)
***
Cersei: “I owe you my gratitude. You returned my brother safely to King’s Landing.”
Brienne: “In truth, he rescued me, Your Grace. More than once.”
Cersei: “Did he? Haven’t heard that story before.”
Brienne: “Not such a fascinating story, I’m afraid.”
Cersei: “I’m sure you have many fascinating stories. Sworn to Renly Baratheon. Sworn to Catelyn Stark. And now my brother. Must be exciting to flit from one camp to the next serving whichever lord or lady you fancy.”
Brienne: “I don’t serve your brother, Your Grace.”
Cersei: “But you love him.”
(Without responding, Brienne takes her leave)
Brienne: “Your Grace.”
One line.
“Do you think they’re fooking in their?”
So happy to hear this. I LOVE Brienne. (and Brienne and Jaime, just sayin’)
I actually had an argument with my bil today about those two and where their story is going. He’s all, “They respect each other as warriors. That’s all.”
Oh my sweet summer child. You need a reread followed by a show binge chaser.
*stares longingly at Tarth*
RG,
Mmm-hmmm!!!
(And if your bil is that dense, I fear for the quality of your sibling’s relationship…)
Wolfish,
He’s not into the show for the romance. He much prefers the Littlefinger and Varys maneuvering, the epic battles, and the zombie dragon.
He’s a little dark. lol
RG,
One of the many things I love so much is that it truly does have something for everyone, whether it’s the historical references, the political machinations, the fantastical elements, the exploration of gender roles, or the complexity of human motivation. Me? I’m drunk on all of it, and I’ll be requesting the day after the finale off. Because the end of an era and crying jags. And Scotch. Did I mention that Saner Half and I visited Dalwhinnie in November, and that Dalwhinnie made the Stark Scotch?
Yeah. It’s meant a lot to me for many reasons I won’t bore you with here. But I’d love to meet some fellow Watchers at Con. Last year I met Lonely Cat, with whom I’ve shared some beautiful correspondence, Stark Raven’ Rad, who’s a brilliant spark plug, Sam Coleman, and a bunch of the mods, all of whom are splendid people—Sue, Oz, Luka, Petra, and David. Can’t wait to do it again this year.
I took off the 15th, the day after the premiere. I’ll do so for the finale as well. I might do so for 802-805 as well. 2 weeks from Sunday until the premiere and 5 days until the red carpet premiere!
Jack Bauer 24,
I’ve always loved your enthusiasm, and I’m so glad I found this community.
Mango,
I just love how passionate we all are about this story and the characters! I’m going to make the most out of these remaining 8 weeks and enjoy the hell out of this show!
This is actually #1 on on my list of “Things I will be disappointed over if it doesn’t come to pass”
Did Ms Christie give away a big spoiler, she mentioned that the fans will want the show to continue. I get the impression a lot of characters will survive for her to have made this statement, unless it’s quoted out of context.
Bring on the great big world-conquering monster babes!! +D
TormundsWoman,
I love Tormund! But Brienne obviously doesn’t. So that’s where the conversation ends, for me.
I always thought a fair few would survive, because otherwise where is the ‘sweet’ part from the word-that-shall-not-be-named? If most characters die, that wouldn’t be a very satisfying ending. Obviously some will die, but I have a feeling more will make it out alive to rebuild the world. I know GRRM is viewed as the defyier of tropes, but I doubt he would write a story where most of his characters die at the end and it’s left primarily to strangers (from the audience’s point of view) to rebuild the world after all the wars and battles are won.
Must admit I never considered Brienne a major character in the books despite being a POV one. Always thought she was there as the as someone through whose eyes we see events that are important without being crucial to the end game (whatever that is), as well as being truer knight than almost all anointed Sers.
Given where her character was left at the end of FeastDance, I do look forward to seeing what GRRM has in mind for Brienne in the remaining books and what role she has to play in both versions.
Jaime already completed alot of his arc for me with the fact that he chose to keep his word and travel north to fight for the living. I think Brienne’s influence definitely helped him realize it’s not all about Cersei anymore. He does have honor in him, and Brienne brings this out in him. I don’t know if they will end up with a romantic encounter. As Jon said in the Dragonstone episode “there’s no time for that”. My guess is they will both be busy getting ready to battle the dead. I’m hoping for at least one passionate kiss though! My guess is there will be a scene with them fighting side by side and one or the other saves the other. Jaime does still only have one hand, so I’m not sure how great he will be during the battles. He is good with a lance though! Maybe he will charge the NK like he charged the dragon. I think they definitely need his strategic mind. Jon definitely doesn’t do well with strategy! And Tyrion has been awful with military strategy, even though his Blackwater strategy at least had a good start.
One of my favorite Jaime lines of the show was during the season 7 finale when he talks about preparing the “expedition north”. That is so GOT. It’s just the way he said “expedition”. It really is a major trek! Southern armies don’t travel north in the winter. Here’s the actual script of this scene. It’s such a turning point for Jaime, and I like reading the actual script comments. Can Jaime truly leave Cersei behind this season?and can Brienne help him stay on his Sir Jaime path.
Script:
CERSEI
What are you doing?
JAIME
Preparing the expedition north.
CERSEI
The expedition north.
(beat)
I always knew you were the
stupidest Lannister.
Jaime opens his mouth but quickly closes it. Painful
experience has taught him not to interrupt Cersei when she’s
about to begin a rant.
CONTINUED:
(CONTINUED)
GAME OF THRONES “The Dragon and the Wolf” 47.
CERSEI
The Starks and Targaryens have
united against us– and you want to
fight alongside them? Are you a
traitor or an idiot?
JAIME
You pledged our forces [to fight
our common]–
CERSEI
(speaking over him)
I will say whatever I need to say
to insure the survival of our
House. You expect me to trust the
man who murdered our father? You
expect me to command our troops to
fight beside foreign scum? To fight
for the Dragon Queen?
JAIME
You saw it with your own eyes. You
saw a dead man trying to kill us.
CERSEI
And I saw it burn. If dragons can’t
stop them, if Dothraki and
Unsullied and Northmen can’t stop
them, how will our army make a
difference?
JAIME
This isn’t about noble houses. This
is about the living and the dead–
CERSEI
And I intend to stay amongst the
living! Let the Stark boy and his
new queen defend the north. We stay
here, where we’ve always been.
JAIME
I made a promise–
She approaches him, trying a gentler tack, looking up at his
bewildered face.
CERSEI
Our child will rule Westeros.
JAIME
Our child will never be born, if
the dead come south.
CONTINUED: (2)
(CONTINUED)
GAME OF THRONES “The Dragon and the Wolf” 48.
CERSEI
The monsters are real. The White
walkers. The dragons. The Dothraki
screamers– all the frightening
stories we heard when we were
young, they’re all real. So be it.
Let the monsters kill each other.
While they battle in the north,
we’ll take back the lands that
belong to us.
JAIME
And then what?
CERSEI
And then we rule.
JAIME
When the fight in the north is
over, someone wins. You understand
that, don’t you? If the dead win,
they march south and kill us all.
If the living win and we’ve
betrayed them, they march south and
kill us all.
CERSEI
The Targaryens and the Starks
already want to kill us all. Most
of them will die in the north.
JAIME
I faced them in the field. We can’t
beat them. We can’t beat their
dragons–
CERSEI
How many dragons did you see at the
pit?
Jaime’s not sure what she’s getting at.
JAIME
Two.
CERSEI
What happened to the third?
JAIME
For all we know it’s guarding her
fleet.
CONTINUED: (3)
(CONTINUED)
GAME OF THRONES “The Dragon and the Wolf” 49.
CERSEI
(shaking her head)
She came here with her dragons and
her Dothraki and her Unsullied —
she came to show us all her power.
No, something happened. The dragons
are vulnerable.
Cersei’s intransigence frustrates Jaime. He’s battled these
forces on the field. He knows what they’re up against.
JAIME
We can’t beat the Dothraki. We
don’t have the numbers, we don’t
have the support of the other
houses.
CERSEI
We have something better. We have
the Iron Bank.
Jaime can only stare at her.
CERSEI
You should have listened more when
father spoke about the importance
of gold. Oh, I know it was boring
for you. You just wanted to hunt
and ride and fight. But I listened. I learned. (beat)
Highgarden bought us the most
powerful army in Essos. The Golden
Company. 20,000 men, horses… elephants, I believe.
JAIME
The Golden Company is not here. They are in Essos. How is a
mercenary company in Essos going to
help us?
CERSEI
Did you really think Euron Greyjoy
turned tail and sailed back to the
Iron Islands? Do you think he
abandoned the chance to marry the
Queen?
A beat. Jaime really did believe it.
CONTINUED: (4)
(CONTINUED)
GAME OF THRONES “The Dragon and the Wolf” 50.
CERSEI
No one walks away from me. He’s
sailing with his fleet to Essos.
He’s going to ferry the Golden
Company back here to help us win
the war for Westeros.
JAIME
You plotted with Euron Greyjoy.
Without telling me. The commander
of your armies.
CERSEI
And you conspired with Tyrion, the
man who murdered our father.
Without telling me. Your queen.
JAIME
I didn’t conspire with him!
CERSEI
You met him in secret, without my
consent. You planned to promote my
enemies’ interests. That is the
definition of conspiracy.
JAIME
I pledged to ride north. I intend
to honor that pledge.
CERSEI
And that would be treason.
JAIME
Treason?!
CERSEI
Disobeying your Queen’s command. Fighting with her enemies. What
would you call it?
Jaime considers his response for a long beat, staring at his
sister, his lover, his queen.
JAIME
It doesn’t matter what I’d call it.
He turns to go but finds that the Mountain stands directly in
his way.
CERSEI
I told you no one walks away from
me.
CONTINUED: (5)
(CONTINUED)
GAME OF THRONES “The Dragon and the Wolf” 51.
Jaime turns and looks at her again.
JAIME
Are you going to order him to kill
me?
Cersei stares at him.
JAIME
I’m the only one you have left. Our
children are gone. Our father is
gone. It’s just me and you now.
CERSEI
There’s one more yet to come.
Jaime nods.
JAIME
Give the order, then.
He watches her and waits.
The Mountain waits for a command from his queen.
She nods. The smallest possible nod.
The Mountain draws his sword.
Jaime knows there’s no point fighting. He knows he will be
cut in half.
He stares at his sister for a long beat.
JAIME
(quiet)
I don’t believe you.
After a long beat, Jaime turns and walks away, right past the
Mountain and his drawn sword.
Cersei watches. She does not give the command.
EXT. OUTSIDE KING’S LANDING – DAY
Jaime rides north, the city behind him.
He’s no longer wearing his Lannister uniform. He’s no longer
commanding an army, or representing his house. He’s dressed
so as not to stand out, in the manner of Bronn, a sellsword
with no affiliations.
CONTINUED: (6)
(CONTINUED)
GAME OF THRONES “The Dragon and the Wolf” 52.
He glances down at his golden hand, a hand that makes him
famous throughout Westeros. Stopping his horse, he pulls on a
black leather glove (specially designed for his golden hand).
As he finishes he notices a single snowflake landing on the
black leather.
He looks up at the overcast sky. He glances back at the
capital, and the high towers of the Red Keep.
He trots forward, never looking back again, a lone horseman
heading north on the Kingsroad.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
See, I always thought she was super important. She is pivotal to Jaime’s arc, Cat’s arc, multiple Baratheon’s and she carries one of the two swords repurposed from Ice.
Also if you’ve read Dunk and Egg stories, there is a definite parallel and potential connection.
For me she’s right up there with Davos and Sam for Team Living.
(All 3 of them initially seen as sidekicks or witness POVs, all 3 survive multiple times in spite of close calls and odds stacked against them, all 3 close to the core hero/antihero action ie involved with most crucial aspects of story.)
I’d add the Hound to that list but he doesn’t have a POV in the books.
Che,
I agree.
Che,
I agree that fewer main characters will die than is generally expected . We will lose several of our favorite supporting characters like Pod etc.
Of course, my expectations are very different from others with regard to who dies. Of the big names, I expect both Jon and Daenerys to exit (maybe dead) but not Jaime. Yea, I rock on in relative isolation and am quite fine with it.
Man, can you imagine how awesome his pov would be!? Pages filled with his thoughts on how much of a dumb c#*t this and that guy are… Thinking about how much he needs chicken and ale!! I’m now hoping George will give him a few… if/when he brings him back from the “dead.”
Mango,
I’ve been rethinking the idea of Jaime dying as well. I still don’t give him a high percentage for survival but it’s a lot better than I was, which was pretty close to a sure-thing death.
Clob,
Every percentage counts.
But no-one is safe.
As Tron recalled the scene between Cercei and Jamie, I again thought about the dragonpit-scene: I found it notable, that the wight rushed up just to Cercei to long out for her, Cercei, no one else. It reminded me to the scene in front of the Moriagate in LotR, when the kraken reached out just for Frodo and no one else.
So I wonder, if NK might be looking for Cercei…?
Clob,
I would love it. I have a feeling he’d be sad as well as funny though. He’s a complicated guy. I’m going to miss Rory’s Hound so much.
Luka Nieto,
I think “Eww” in this case is totally wrong though. Brienne barely knows Tormund or the other way around. Your Eww is based on two scenes where they barely talk and assume they actually make small talk or even connect off screen, which it really wasn’t even implied. You can’t “Eww she doesn’t love him” based on that! That’s what a hater would do. I ship whatever it’s good for her and him and consensual. But I honestly think they’d hit it off if she’d be open to know him.
Don’t you Eww my fantasy ship! :p
That’s an interesting thought, since GRRM does talk about his LotR influences.
If that were the case though, the folks at Winterfell would be happy to let death through and just point the way to Cersei and say, “she’s that way ==>>>” I think it’s more likely though that Sandor just dropped the crate towards Cersei and that’s who the Wight saw, but you never know!
trarecar,
Or a smaller baby with Jamie.
TormundsWoman,
Brienne is Jaime’s and Jaime is Brienne’s. Sorry about Tormund. His crush on Brienne is a stage direction that took on a life of its own after the writers noticed the fandom’s reaction to Tormund ogling Brienne.
I hope it’s run its course. I don’t like to see Tormund as a lovesick puppy. It was nice that he admired a big strong warrior woman; it was good for a few follow up jokes. Let’s leave it at that. Besides….
If Tormund survives (and I think he should, as he’s the only recognizable face of the Free Folk), and it’s necessary to “pair off” characters, it would be more consistent with the fictional universe if Tormund is wed to Alys Karstark to cement the bonds between factions in the post-Apocalyptic society.
In the books, didn’t Jon Snow arrange a marriage between one of the Free Folk leaders and a Northern girl as part of his Wildling Resettlement Program? I thought when they cast a tall redhead (Meg Parkinson) as Alys Karstark, she’d be involved somehow with Jon or Tormund. We know how Tormund likes big strong women and redheads in particular: “Gingers are beautiful; kissed by fire.”
I don’t like “shipping.” I don’t feel it’s essential for a character’s story to conclude with a coupling. (Except Jaime & Brienne.) However, I have a hard time believing that the show cast an actress for the role of Alys just to have her appear in one scene and say three words: Now and always!”
Brienne of Fucking Tarth. I love that. The Hound!
Mango,
Jamie, GRRM’s greatest creation? Really? In the books? Jamie who is so very, very slow in realizing that Cersei plays him like a fiddle? The guy who keeps repeating Tyrion’s line of
for an entire book until it finally dawns on him that his brother was telling the truth? I mean, his sister slept with their cousin Lancel (Lancel!!!!), while Jamie never once cheated on her. And they say Jon Snow knows nothing. Jamie is an intriguing character with a fantastic arc but I gotta give it to Theon in terms of having the best redemption arc and having the best written chapters. Even when I despised Theon I couldn’t help but admire GRRM’s work when he was focusing on the Prince of Winterfell.
Ten Bears,
I’m sorry, who died and made you in charge of Bri’s love life?!?! Bri’s a woman of her own she doesn’t really belong to Jaime or anyone. And is not really meant for anyone either.
[quote]Brienne is Jaime’s and Jaime is Brienne’s. Sorry about Tormund. [/quote]
Yeah, well for a dude who doesn’t like shipping you sound like you embarked on one a while ago.
Anywho. I was just pointing out that Eww was not merited (unless you are a hater which I don’t really think Luka is) since they don’t even know each other. It’s not like he jumped her or Bri knows him like she knows Jamie and she thinks he’s disgusting for his personality and beliefs and what not. She just looked at him like he’s a weirdo. Which he is. That means nothing. I like some weirdos I even love some. Whatever. I’m so over the reaction this ship gets from peeps over here. Bunch of ship possibilities haters.
TormundsWoman,
(S7e7)
Rhaegar: “I am hers and she is mine.”
Lyanna: “I am his and he is mine from this day until the end of my days.”
(S3e7)
Ygritte to Jon: “You’re mine and I’m yours.”
(S3e7)
Osha: “I had a man once. A good man.
Bruni, his name was. I was his and he was mine.”
(1:43 PM)
Ten Bears: “Brienne is Jaime’s and Jaime is Brienne’s.”
This was an in-universe figure of speech. Nothing more.
To answer your rhetorical question, “who died and made you in charge of Bri’s love life?!?!”: nobody. I’m just going by what the showrunners and cast members have said in interviews.
In any event, in light of your chosen screen name, “TormundsWoman,” from now on I will defer to your judgment on all matters involving Tormund and his woman or women.
Uuuuh! Come on, be nice! Let’s wait and see!
Danny,
1. We are lucky that in GRRM we have so many intriguing characters. With nearly 2000, expect us to have many different preferences in terms of what is interesting. I see your interest has focused on Theon. Good for you. Tyrion is also an interesting one for many. Stannis for others. All have their appeal and not much to argue about in that.
2. Your post on Jaime/Theon raises 3 things I want to comment on: When I mentioned Jaime’s identity arc (Who am I?), I could have gone on for 10 days on the themes explored in this arc. One of which is what would I do for love. J’ aime name is literally I love. His has intense love relationships with Cersei, Tyrion and Tywin and from his dreams, his mother. These relationships are parts of why he is such a great creation as each of these other characters are intriguing creations on their own. Both Cersei and Tyrion betray Jaime’s trust (and Tywin is Tywin). Does that make him stupid? Maybe. He also loves his House and Westeros. He made his biggest sacrifice for Westeros.
3. His identity arc also explores the nature of honor and oaths and how we live with conflicts between them. His one handedness reflects Tyr – god of war, justice, honor and who was noted for courage. His exchanges with Brienne and Cat are a part of this exploration.
4. Jaime is also Jacob (both names are the same name) who was born holding the heel of his twin as did Jaime with Cersei. GRRM also uses Jaime to explore duality. Jaime is part of an external duality with Cersei. As he goes along his identity arc, this duality opens between them and their relationship erodes. Jaime also has an internal duality within him and his identify arc refines this duality as he uses the better part of himself more often. However, it is this duality that I think will make him a great leader – he understands the weaknesses in human hearts. Note that Jacob, after a misspent youth, supplanted his twin to become Father of the Nation.
5. Jaime’s and Theon’s redemption arcs are different. Theon we meet as a good guy, then, he makes a mistake, he suffers, he feels remorse, then he will redeem himself by doing something great to compensate (I think). In Theon’s redemption arc, he is living through the arc himself and seeking redemption.
In Jaime’s arc, it is the viewer or reader that GRRM is using to bear that arc in their opinions of Jaime. GRRM introduces Jaime as a bad guy and then he unveils him like an onion and tells us the back story. Jaime himself has regrets in his life (re Bran) but as a character, he is not dominated by personal remorse. GRRM ensures that he is punished for Bran anyway with the loss of his hand and that event also starts the identity arc. (Jaime also confesses to Cat and they agree a plan to settle all debts by securing her daughters. Not his fault that Arya refuses help)
GRRM challenges the reader/viewer to “redeem” him in our minds as we grow to understand him and because he gives Jaime a simultaneous identity arc, we see Jaime becoming better as well. The incest is interesting because it puts us in a place where we are challenged to love/redeem a guy that has sex with his sister and has pushed a child. Two major taboos – so as readers we also get a conflict in our hearts. Excellent choices by GRRM!
Ten Bears,
Yeah. At the time Alys married a wildling, the circumstances kind of offered themselves up for it so I’m not sure how it’d work in the show between Tormund and Alys. Alys came to Jon for his help because she was fleeing relatives who wanted to forcibly marry, rape, and murder her for her claim to the Karhold. So to protect Alys from those creeps, Jon arranges a marriage to the Magnar of Thenn, who – unlike in the show – have quite a few similarities with Westerosi lords (such as inherited lordship, they produce their own resources, make their own weapons from these resources, etc.) and Alys agrees to this union. This also has sort of a triple whammy of benefits: not only does it protect Alys from Cregan and Arnolf Karstark, it gives Alys an army to help her retake her home the Karhold, and (as you mentioned) it helps establish a free folk band in Westeros because once Alys and the Magnar of Thenn get married, it creates a new house in the North – House Thenn.
It’s a pretty brilliant move – if Jon were King in the North and not a Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch who’s supposed to take no part. But if the show were to create kind of similar circumstances, the ‘take no part’ wouldn’t be an issue for Jon at this point.
I think Jamie looks at Brienne the way he does because he sees in her what he wants to be as a person. It’s not romantic love, it’s awe, jealousy, and respect. Come on guys. From Cersei to…. Brienne?? I love her, but no. It’s not realistic. He’ll never lust after her or love her romantically.
Brienne has no sexual experience outside of crushes on two men: one was gay and the other in love with his sister. LOL She’s clueless. I agree with the person above who said they want her to find love not because she’s a woman, but because goddamnit, she deserves it after being ridiculed her whole life.
Tormand lusts after her as a woman and is in awe of her power as a warrior. Jamie sees in Brienne what he could have been, and views her as a friend and fellow knight. Brienne deserves a man who loves her for everything, her body included, because that IS important. That will never be Jamie.
One of the saddest things would be seeing Brienne pine away after Jamie dies, letting unrequited love stop her from giving Tormund a chance.
I’m fairly certain Brienne survives and this only makes me feel more confident of that happening. I see her arc as being the one to write Jamie’s good deads in his obituary and possibly returning to Tarth or being part of any future King or Queens guard.
Sadly I reckon Pod is a highly probably casualty of the battle of Winterfell especially when I saw him in the Vanguard next to Brienne.
Yep I’m with you here, I don’t see Brienne having a partner in the show although I do see her mourning Jamie due to a mixture of feelings and seeing honour in him.
It is astonishing that people still deny Jaime is sexually attracted to Brienne or that he and Brienne have a romantic storyline when characters like Bronn and Cersei have literally announced it to the audience, and GRRM has confirmed their story is based on Beauty and the Beast.
Oh, Brienne’s naked backside is very beautiful! It’s sure she is all around.
Trarecar,
Jon Snowed,
whateverdgaf,
The good news is that Season 8 will hold some delightful surprises for everyone that does not see the Jaime/Brienne interaction as a romance.
This is not a bad thing – it shows that GRRM is painting something original and D&D is hitting a sweetspot where some storylines are still unsure at this point of the story. When it comes together and you look back at the seven seasons you will see a beautifully woven love story about a deep, slow connection between two people that inspires them both to be better people. For the male, it inspires him on his journey to become the man he was meant to be – one that is a better man than even his father imagined.
Do not worry about the physical part…
Bronn knows both Lannisters boys very well and knows which women they desire. Believe what he said to Pod.
Better yet, believe D&D when they made Bronn say it.
Great physical beauty is no longer perceived as such when it becomes increasingly apparent that it’s nothing more than the outer layer of an ugly interior. Cersei’s beauty is false, as Jaime has reluctantly but inevitably come to admit to himself. Not to mention, none of them are spring chickens any more, and whatever “perfect” beauty any of them have is already fading (in the book, during the Walk of Shame the women of King’s Landing take particular glee in noting that much of Cersei’s youthful beauty is smoke and mirrors—stripped of her royal raiment, she’s as droopy-breasted and scarred with stretch marks as any of them).
There’s a lot more to lasting sexual attraction than appearance. Jaime wasn’t attracted to Cersei only because she was perceived as a blonde deity like himself; although that was certainly one piece of it, there was much more to their complex relationship than that. Had she not revealed herself as a monster, he would have stayed with her into their dotage. Now that he has finally freed himself from her snare, he can, perhaps, openly acknowledge that for true love (and even lust!) to flourish, it is far preferable to have a partner who’s a reflection of one’s best inner self than one who provides little more than a glimpse into a looking-glass.
You must be young. How do you imagine old people keep getting it on, years after the proverbial “bloom of youth” has faded?
Wolfish,
No, I’m 50, but I’m also not naive to think that Jamie Lannister, as much as he admires Brienne, would ever actually fall in love with her as she is described in the books He is “strangely attracted’ to her because she is a knight in thr truest sense, something he regrets not being, and she happens to be a woman.
He acts weird around her and Cersei because he knows Cersei hates her and he, being the emotionally abused partner in their relationship, is trying to appease Cersei while at the same time not be a dick to someone he admires. Cersei is jealous of Brienne, not because she thinks Jamie finds her attractive, but because she senses that Brienne makes Jamie question his behavior, and that won’t do – Cersei has manipulated Jamie his entire life and she feels she owns him. No other woman is allowed to be important to Jamie.
You know, maybe I’m totally wrong and you guys are right. Maybe Jamie will kiss Brienne or something before he dies. But he’s still dying. And she’s still not going to have her fantasy of living HEA with Jamie, kicking ass together on Casterly Rock or something. Hell, she’s never even WANTED to be a lady. But she’s got a crush on the head of House Lannister? It’s not in the cards cir them, it never was. Some talk about what D&D have been showing us. They’re showing us a man who stood up for himself much, much too late, going into a huge battle and is almost certain to die. They’re showing us a warrior woman who knows men find her unattractive, but she still can’t help developing feelings for two completely unattainable men, rookie move made by teenagers around the world, but she’s a full grown woman. And finally, we’ve been shown there IS a man who finds her attractive, beautiful even, who will, Gods willing, still be standing when the war
is over.
I’m not trying to force Brienne on Tormund, but D&D have obviously made him an option, a FANTASTIC option. I hope that she eventually gets over the man who could never be hers and look towards the man who desires her, and by the end of this will likely love her as he watches her be the bad ass woman that she is.
Brienne has sworn herself to Sansa. She will live out her days in the North. And so will Tormund.
Trarecar,
His name is Jaime.
I see you are not paying full attention.
Well, no-one knows how the story ends. I think NCW disagrees with you on how Jaime feels about Brienne.
I agree that where the book leaves Jaime and Brienne its requires a long way in terms of their relationship. I agree that book Brienne will need some personal development in terms of her self-confidence and self-concept to be able to effectively partner Jaime. There is a big age difference between them but it is clear they have a connection. GRRM writes her as gauche but brave. However, the book is unfinished and so the author still has time to work.
I like the changes that D&D made to Brienne – ageing her up and giving her a bit more polish. Her interaction with Oleanna and the ladies at court including Cersei showed she can function in the same social world that Jaime lives in. Oleanna was impressed. She is the Lady of her House, she walked up to dais in this capacity to greet the King and Queen at the wedding. It is one of the few scenes in which her social background and access in this feudal society is made clear.
As for Tormund, the Brienne-Tormund interaction started as a running joke between the actors. Expect it to be played for humor S8, NCW said in an interview that if you are following the story he will need to have “words” with Tormund.
As for Jaime’s death, yes, it is very possible and probable. No doubt about that. I am betting against it – and until the credits roll, I can.
Wolfish,
Trarecar: “Come on guys. From Cersei to… Brienne?? I love her, but no. It’s not realistic. He’ll never lust after her or love her romantically.”
Wolfish: “Great physical beauty is no longer perceived as such when it becomes increasingly apparent that it’s nothing more than the outer layer of an ugly interior. Cersei’s beauty is false, as Jaime has reluctantly but inevitably come to admit to himself. Not to mention, none of them are spring chickens any more, and whatever “perfect” beauty any of them have is already fading (in the book, during the Walk of Shame the women of King’s Landing take particular glee in noting that much of Cersei’s youthful beauty is smoke and mirrors—stripped of her royal raiment, she’s as droopy-breasted and scarred with stretch marks as any of them).
There’s a lot more to lasting sexual attraction than appearance. Jaime wasn’t attracted to Cersei only because she was perceived as a blonde deity like himself; although that was certainly one piece of it, there was much more to their complex relationship than that. Had she not revealed herself as a monster, he would have stayed with her into their dotage. Now that he has finally freed himself from her snare, he can, perhaps, openly acknowledge that for true love (and even lust!) to flourish, it is far preferable to have a partner who’s a reflection of one’s best inner self than one who provides little more than a glimpse into a looking-glass.
You must be young. How do you imagine old people keep getting it on, years after the proverbial “bloom of youth” has faded?
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It IS realistic. I’ve been there. Not quite Lena Headey/Cersei vs. Gwendoline Christie/Brienne, but everything else was the same. Ensnared in a toxic, dead-end relationship … and escaped from it thanks to someone who wasn’t a “traditional” beauty but was beautiful in my eyes because she was angelic and pure of heart.
Are we really interesting on a realism in Jaime falling in love with Brienne in a show where there are dragons?
It’s also unrealistic to assume every man is obsessed with physical Beauty.
I’ve been offline since yesterday, and before I move on to dragons at the Bellagio I think I ought to respond to all of your thoughtful comments.
trarecar, thank you for taking the time to not only respond, but respond intelligently to my original comment. While I disagree with you somewhat about the full nature of Jaime’s attraction to Brienne, I concede your point about book vs. show Brienne (virtually everyone is more attractive and softer on the show, save for Sansa… she strikes me as exactly the same). I also owe you an apology for making assumptions about your age. Re-reading my comment, I see I might have allowed the Dornish red to have its way with me. The conventionally-attractive-man/not-as-conventionally-attractive-woman scenario is a sensitive one for me, in large part because I was once married to someone who looked like the love child of Keanu Reeves and Lou Diamond Phillips. (In contrast, I look like Morticia’s even weirder sister.)
Mango, I humbly bow down to your love of, and expertise in, all things related to Jaime Lannister. And I really appreciate your comment about Brienne at the wedding—something I hadn’t given any thought to, and find particularly perceptive.
Ten Bears, I’m always happy for anyone who makes his/her/their/its way out of a toxic relationship. Don’t get me going on ageism, lookism, and the impossibly high “standards” that young people feel pressured to live up to in the age of social-media “influencers,” rampant plastic surgery, and readily-available porn. On the one hand, I totally understand the biological reasons for sexual attraction to young, beautiful people (they have good genes and can procreate, duh!), while on the other, I’ve always thought George Carlin’s riff on youth being wasted on the young really was his best one.
Hot Pink Lipstick, even in a show where there are dragons, we nitpick EVERY. SINGLE. THING. Because nerrrdddsss. 😉
Mango,
He’s going to live. I’m betting on it too.
TheNightQueen,
Good! I can use the company. We can hold hands while we worry!
Seeing more of Brienne in S8 is the best news I’ve heard from cast interviews so far! I’ll be seriously bummed if she isn’t one of the survivors at the end.
As for her romantic prospects… I don’t think she’s the type ever to think she ‘needs’ a man, but I agree that it would do her good to know that there are men who genuinely desire her. I wouldn’t have a problem with her warming up to Tormund eventually; but, since that isn’t a thing in the books, I don’t think it’s her endgame. As for Jaime, all along I’ve been going on the premise that he is doomed. But I’m very recently beginning to rethink that. If he lives, I could see them pairing off.
If he doesn’t survive and she does… Sandor might be a long-shot potential partner for her – especially considering that, where we left off in the books, she has just been grossly disfigured by Biter eating half her face. They might bond over that, and there would be some poetry in it, since they are both truer ‘knights’ than most, even though neither claims the title.
I’m also fine with Brienne deciding that celibacy suits her best, especially if she ends up wearing the white cloak. Mostly I just want to see Gwendoline in action more, whether it’s swinging a sword or being mulishly righteous or questioning herself. To me, she’s a major character and one of my favorites.