HBO has been churning out Game of Thrones spinoffs left and right for development and yet I still did not see this one coming. A new show for our curly-haired angsty hero Jon Snow! So says the Hollywood Reporter.
It’s apparently a sequel series in development so we don’t know if it will even survive to the pilot stage, let alone make it to our screens in a couple years. But that’s never stopped us from speculating wildly in the name of having a good time!
Plus I’m having too many thoughts and questions brought on by this absolutely bonkers rumor-drop from THR and those thoughts need to be spilled before they become a migraine. Here we go!
Why would Kit Harington return to Westeros? Isn’t he finished with all this? Kit seemed to be finished with the story and with Jon Snow in 2019. He said it, repeatedly in so many interviews. However, after three years (and more, if you factor in filming time), he might be feeling refreshed and missing the character he lived with for a decade. The stories the Powers That Be (whoever THAT is) are pitching him might be exciting enough to get him back in the game. Or – let’s be real – maybe the pot is sweet enough because so far his career beyond Thrones hasn’t been on fire- we haven’t heard much about a Black Knight movie/series lately.
And let’s face it – the world still sees Kit as Jon Snow.
I’m reminded of Leonard Nimoy, and his frustration in the 1970’s with Star Trek fans not understanding the differences between him and Spock, though he loved his TV character. He merely needed some distance for a time. After a few years, his stance softened and he returned to the role of Spock for the Star Trek movies. Nimoy embraced the part and his role in pop culture more fully. Maybe Kit Harington has too?
Who is in charge of this? Who is writing it? That’s pretty important and I feel like Harington wouldn’t be signing on unless he knew who was showrunning and/or writing it. George RR Martin does not have the time/availability to be a major part of this. I imagine he could consult periodically, and provide some input as to Jon and other lead characters’ futures as he did in GOT, but there’s no way he could have a major role on a regular basis. It’s not realistic. GOT Showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have said fairly recently that they have no intention of returning full time to the GOT-verse (and I’m inclined to believe them). Bryan Cogman (Co-executive producer and writer) has already denied being involved, on his twitter- and I’m also inclined to believe him. I mean if HBO was smart they’d dump a pile of money is his lap to have him run and write this show, but it’s HBO. So…it’s probably someone else developing it. Perhaps another frequent GOT director like David Nutter (HBO’s The Time Traveler’s Wife)? Just spitballing here.
Where would the Jon Snow spin-off film? Game of Thrones based its filming in Northern Ireland (with location filming in Croatia, Spain and Iceland) but House of the Dragon has shifted to a home base in England. Would the sequel series return to Northern Ireland with its useful quarries and shores? Importantly, Jon went journeying in the series finale, so would this hypothetical new show spend time in Iceland? Spring was coming, in the finale, but it’s always snowy to a point when you’re far beyond the Wall. Or would Jon’s story find its way back down further south and include more familiar faces from down that way as well…
Familiar faces- Who?: Who else would we see in the sequel spinoff besides Jon Snow? One no-brainer guess is Tormund Giantsbane (Kristofer Hivju), last seen heading beyond the Wall at Jon’s side with the wildlings. He’s a fan fave, sign him now. Also: GHOST! Give him lots of pats this time or fans will rage out. People get weird about dogs. Since wildlings are with Jon and Tormund, the show has an opportunity to introduce characters that fell by the wayside in GOT due to time constraints such as Mance Rayder’s wife Dalla and her sister Val. People may say, “Why?” to which I say, “Why the hell not?” Also, I would love to see all the skinchanging issues of Varamyr Sixskins explored. There’s a wealth of opportunity in presenting wildling culture more deeply. The books have good shit- use it.
We could also see more of the people just below the Wall- I would bet that Jon will pay some visits to his sister Queen Sansa (Sophie Turner) and her people there. And the Three-Eyed Raven King Bran is not bound by walls- we could see Bran (Isaac Hempstead Wright) again. And how about the ramifications of Bran’s unusual reign in Westeros? Now that would make a great addition to the show, exploring how all these issues tie together. GRRM always mentions Aragorn’s tax policy. Well this would be like the ASOIAF/GOT post-war version of seeing Aragorn’s tax policy being developed. (Which is more interesting than it sounds.)
And the Dany (Emilia Clarke) flashbacks would be beautiful agony. I can see the Twitter fights already.
(Also, Drogon is still out there. Hmm. Is that too Jaws: The Revenge?)
Is this show damage control? Now, that’s a rough question. Is this happening simply to gradually ease off some of the unpopular endings of Game of Thrones? I don’t think so. Technically I do think a sequel spinoff is a chance to change the endings for some of the characters since we’re extending the story. However I don’t think we’re going to see a drastic change. Arya will still be off adventuring. I don’t think she’s going to suddenly be settled down and married to Gendry instead. Sansa will still be Queen in the North. Dany will still be uh you know. And I think most likely Bran will still be king on the (non-existent) Throne of Sixish Kingdoms. I do see a possibility of Jon’s exile being softened. If we are following him, who knows where his journey will go, depending on how long this new series lasts. If it gets made at all! We are wildly speculating now.
The big question: Do we really need this show? I don’t know, man, do we really need ANY show? It’s entertainment and Kit Harington is an eminently watchable ball of charisma. I’m as surprised by the announcement as anyone. There are no truly charitable reasons that any TV show gets made. Networks always want to make money. That’s reality. But we could also get to watch a great TV show with more Westeros content. And that’s incredibly exciting.
So do I think people will watch it? You bet your ass I do.
Kit seemed so done with it all. SO. Done. Which is what I’m surprised by. But, like you’ve said, he hasn’t really found his spot in the bigger arena as of yet. Hindsight? Money? A yearning for a return to freezing temps? Hey I’m Canadian.
I’d be more interested in this than a lot of the other ideas rolling about. The proximity to Winterfell really finds me not wanting to see Sansa ever again, however, so there’s that. Arya visits? That’d be cool.
I still want them to un-zombify Karsi.
I’m probably different than most. I’ve reached a stage where the ending of GoT and the lack of progress of the books makes me absolutely apathetic about the upcoming prequel series. (And it could be a wonderful series, but I’m simply numb).
A Jon Snow sequel series would draw me right back. It would be a chance to make amends, tell some good stories and return to characters I want more stories about. This show has excited about this universe again. I hope it happens.
“Is this show damage control?”
I doubt it. There are many examples of a hatefest turning into a lovefest. In time, the people who loved the GOT finale will become the dominant voice & eventually the negativity will become overwhelmed by that positivity. Look at how LOST is perceived now vs 10 years ago… hell, vs even 5 years ago. The love for the ending plus people bingeing it has changed the majority of discussions from negative to positive. Same for the SOPRANOS ending. Love outlasts hate. And the Star Wars prequels are an even better example of that.
Sure, some people are still needlessly angry about those things & delusionally think they’re still in the majority, but they’re just good at getting attention from the minority of people who agree with them.
If it happens, I would probably watch it and then wish I hadn’t.
I agree, please no Sansa Stark. I think the story could work if there was a time jump. Sansa has died, childless, after the people in the North revolted and killed her while she was snacking on lemon cakes. Arya returns to take over as there must always be a Stark at Winterfell. Meanwhile, something is rising in the North and the cold is returning, an ice dragon has been seen on the horizon searching for something or someone… Jon, Val and their children seek shelter at Winterfell – let the games begin!
Despite what some may think, including Kit, I think they just have to swallow their pride and accept that it’s about the fan base as a whole, and some damage control is needed to make it more than just a bitter memory. The show and characters were so immersive that you just can’t wind it up like it was. Even to the untrained eye, it just felt rushed, and after building up such a close relationship with the fan base, you simply have to think of ALL the fan base and not just the segment who roll over and accept it, even aggressively so. People have been cancelled for less, which you can shrug at, that is until the purse strings start getting tighter without any sign of it getting better. Case in point, Warner, when they dropped Johnny Depp from fantastic beasts 3 – Fans pay the bills.
Breaking Bad also got a sequel and that wasn’t damage control.
I think HBO sees they have this incredibly popular show that is still watched by millions on HBO MAX, the show ended almost as a set up for a new season and from financial perspective this feels like a no brainer.
So was this already retracted? THR seems to have killed the link. What was the actual source? Anonymous leak? Did an HBO exec say they’re doing this? Was it anything beyond the pitch stage? Did Kit himself even agree to it?
They’d clearly need to answer at least a few of the questions left open. Why is there still a night’s watch? Will they find or try to find a way to tear down the rest of the wall? Assuming there is still some kind of organization that Jon Snow can be exiled to, why is it under Bran’s jurisdiction if Sansa’s North isn’t? If they’re freely mixing with free folk and going into the real north, shouldn’t they be under no one’s jurisdiction? Or was that just Jon deserting again? Except the free folk were the night’s watch at the end anyway, so again, why would they be accepting Bran or Sansa as leaders? What happened to all of Craster’s wives? What will happen to Bear Island if all the Mormonts are dead now? I expect they could get away with just ignoring the last two, but I’d want to know.
I’d say filming locations should be much more open, since it seemed to be implied that the Night King and his minions caused the weather in the first place. When they flashed back to the Night King being created, that was in the current heart of winter but the climate looked temperate. Grass everywhere. No snow.
As far as the rest of the cast, yeah, you clearly need Tormund back. I don’t see any way around Sansa at least being recurring and at least a cameo or two from Bran. I’d say they make pretty crappy friends if Sam and Tyrion never visit, especially as the weather gets normal and visiting gets easier. But for main cast, you only need Kit and Kristopher to come back. Everyone else can be an original character.
Got to be careful with story, though. I think they want to avoid doing what Star Wars did where they effectively just recycled the empire versus resistance thing and made the events of the first trilogy seemingly pointless. They need something beyond a supernatural apocalypse threat and scheming for the throne, especially since scheming for the throne is also the entire point of House of the Dragon, which would almost certainly do a better job. On the other hand, there is a lot of potential to answer some of the unanswered questions about White Walker mythology by finding and investigating artifacts they left behind in the far north. Doing that without bringing them back as an explicit threat is tricky, though.
Unfortunately, the easiest but also cheapest thing to do is just bring them back. The magic obviously still exists to create them from scratch, and there is no reason the children or anyone else couldn’t have done it a second time at some point in the last 10,000 years. The show as it stands kind of leaves that out there anyway. Any jackass for the rest of this planet’s history who wants to wreak havoc or just watch the world burn can try to figure out how the dragonglass in heart magic works and make a new zombie lord ice king.
The THR article is still there- the issue was with my butterfingers pasting the link in incorrectly. I fixed it!
The information comes from James Hibberd at THR, formerly of EW. He usually has pretty reliable sources when it comes to these things. No one is 100% foolproof in entertainment reporting but historically Hibberd has consistent sources with HBO and Thrones-related matters.
Thanks Sue! Great context and things to think about.
I’m way less excited about this idea than some of the others which have been thrown around, but I’ll admit I would probably still watch… $$$
I just hope for Kit’s sake he is genuinely in a good place and making a good decision here. The analogy to Nimoy/Spock is a good one, thanks for that.
I agree Tormund is a must but would hate for it to turn into a buddy cop show beyond the wall with swords.
Honestly, I’m just not that excited about anything that’s a sequel. I feel like GRRM put so much effort into crafting interesting prequel tales (Fire and Blood, Dunk and Egg, Robert’s rebellion) that I’d rather see any of those stories come to the screen eventually than something from a random hollywood writer’s brain (unless that brain is Bryan Cogman’s who respects the canon and I think really deeply gets George’s characters- I love the episodes he wrote for GoT).
I don’t see why the assumption would be that a Jon Snow sequel would be set in the 7 Kingdoms.
I see this as a second try possibly at some of the things they were going to cover in The Long Night prequel. I mean if you think about it, the far far North is the place where all of that ancient history still has some power. Jon lived his life protecting the realms of men from white walkers, and he almost certainly still has questions. Yes Bran knows where the WW came from, but noone else really does, and noone therefore knows how to prevent another Night King from devastating Westeros all over again in future. But this is almost certainly Jon’s primary concern following the events of GOT.
He needs to know if the Wall needs to be rebuilt or torn down. Either solution poses problems that need to be negotiated with lots of colourful wildling and Northern characters.
So, my guess is that a Jon Snow sequel is a chance to dig in to the history and mythology of the far North while at the same time tying the story to a character people already care about.
I like that idea.
But Bran had the best story. Shouldn’t it be about him?
This surprised me big time. Considering Kit said that the last few years of doing GoT and it ending caused him to have problems with his mental health combined with his alcohol consumption…as much as he now seems to be in a much better frame of mind, heading back into that world as that character: high-profile, a lot of pressure and arguably even more pressure if he was THE LEAD instead of just one of many of a new series could risk setting that off again. I disagree with the view his career hasn’t been doing well, he’s just finished doing a successful run of Henry V in London. Does he really NEED to go back to Westeros? I don’t know but I’m inclined towards no. Yes there’s the money but I feel there would really have to be something in it for him to genuinely consider it. Following the finale, I feel like more people were clamouring for an Arya spin-off (inc Nikolai CW!) and I even saw a headline to that effect the other day following this announcement. Although Maisie Williams didn’t completely rule out a return at some point, she also seems happy to be free of Arya and has done even more than Kit to distance herself. Just look at her hair for a start!
It almost sounds like HBO have seen Disney doing Obi-Wan and decided they want something similar with Jon Snow (some potential similarities story-wise apart from Obi being exiled alone and Jon seemingly being a leader of Wildlings beyond the Wall but fewer constraints in a sense as there is nowhere they have to end up compared to Obi). I don’t know if there is really enough there for a series, not when HotD is coming out and covering a very specific series of events that Martin himself wrote about and the other reported spin-offs may end up getting pilots made at some point.
I would certainly watch. Kit’s better half Rose Leslie is killing it in her latest HBO series “The Time Traveler’s Wife”. She’s been impressive in several roles since GOT. For me, I loved Kit in Testament of Youth, that he did while he was on GOT. I see he has something called “Blood for Dust” coming up. The title doesn’t sound too promising. I am upset that nothing has happened with the Black Knight yet. I was disappointed that Kit’s role in the Immortals was very small, and they just hinted on his return as the Black Knight.
I could think of lots of stories with him up North. The only problem is they either need to find alot of caves to film in or film in lots of huts, since there’s not much up there in the north country beyond the wall as far as I know.
Thank you for this conversation! I went through the #%!k emotions after I read the news. After sitting with it, I wander to the vision George had for Jon and the North. Also the greater concept he’s been writing, in relation to fire and ice. The Gods. Mythos behind the magic. The show did nothing to answer it. Nor did it give any background to the WW fight for Bran…other than, “I am the worlds memory.” Maybe this gives a lot of opportunity to give answers. Tell Jon’s story George’s way. He has said is involved “a lot” in the spin-offs. So he would be helping craft this. If this is George’s, I’m in.
On Kit, he may feel the weight of the s8 response. Jon’s story was suffered. Maybe he wants to help repair. And that has to be an aim for HBO, ease the bitterness. Maybe he really feels compelled by what their concept is. Also that he’s been through new life change: fatherhood. A job; consistent structure…that he can be established/settled with, might be a good thing for his family.
George, of this is at your behest and there is a canonical vision… sign me up.
Personally, I loved Jon’s ending, so I’m not sure if I’m going to watch this. I’ll wait to hear what the story is about.
Let me guess…
Jon and Tormund lead the Wildlings beyond the wall to investigate where the White Walkers came from only to find there’s still life in the Land of Always Winter and things are happening below the frozen ice.
Then HBO goes all in on whatever that means for their next story. Like the Loki series. Character driven spinoff that sets up the next story (aka the next cash grab).
It’s just a marketing stunt for the HoTD. Now we’re talking about GOT again like years ago
It will feel like season 9 of GoT which is good. But, but, but this show will never happen.
This genuinely made me laugh. Possibly the worst aspect of the ending, they wouldn’t touch that with a 10 foot barge pole. GRRM needs to fill in those gaps, which will probably never happen unfortunately. D&D clearly didn’t have a clue why Bran made a good King and they were grasping at straws. I’m sorry but I have to blame GRRM for that one, he didn’t give them enough to go on.
As for this show, I’m torn. I love Jon Snow, so i’m interested. But I worry about Kit, and I liked his show ending. Jon is not Aragorn, he is Frodo, there was a sense of closure there. So what is he going to do? Become an archeologist? Mope around for 10 Episodes with flashbacks to Dany? I don’t get it
I think they could bring Dany back. After all, Drogon picked her body up. He could have easily taken her back to Volantis, the Temple of the Lord of the Light, where she was brought back. Imagine the time taken to make sense of Dany’s actions — which many people did think came out of nowhere. Then work with Jon in the North, Dany in Volantis. That could be incredibly powerful, the both of them rebuilding their broken souls.
Ideally, I would like to see Arya come back, and return to Gendry — because, yes, I’ve been all aboard the Gendrya ship since I read the 2nd book way back when. I understand that she needed time to find herself, to learn to live again. And I honestly feel that GRRM’s plan is to go full-circle with Robert/Lyanna = Gendry/Arya.
I understand that outside of the online hate, GOT still has done quite well, but I’m sure that HBO — which is trying to build this huge ASOIAF television library — would like to shine up the GOT legacy overall. This may be their attempt to do so.
The show made it clear that the Lord of Light only brings back those who have a role to play in the war against the White Walkers, so unless they’re the main antagonists again, I don’t see Daenerys being in this series, unless it’s a flashback or hallucination.
Yeah, this is my feeling.
While there were many unanswered questions in regard to the White Walkers and the magic, I don’t know that this sequel can really answer the vision GRRM had for Jon because for that to happen, we’d have to go back seasons and seasons and seasons in the show…. where changes started to occur from the books themselves (for understandable reasons, TV and books are very different mediums and ASOIAF involves so much more magic compared to the TV series). But I don’t think this sequel is really GRRM’s thing — it seems the prequels are more GRRM’s thing. Those prequels are based off of the world building GRRM has already written. Meanwhile, GRRM hasn’t really written the remaining ASOIAF books, let alone what happens after to the characters.
Elio Garcia and Linda Antonsson have this to say about GRRM’s input in this:
As for KH, I’d be surprised if he wanted to return to this role so soon. He’s talked about, while he appreciates the role of Jon Snow so much, not wanting to reprise the role for a few reasons. His career appears to be going quite well while neither he or RL appear to be strapped for cash at all. This role would return him to a similar intensity Game of Thrones had him in but as the main. I don’t know, I’m pretty surprised.
But all this said, what do I know? 🙂
Unless there is a new vision that their Lord sends them that THIS show makes clear.
What kind of vision? A new threat?
They can call it a spinoff or a sequel all they want, but let’s be honest, it’s effectively a season 9 in all but name. Especially if they start bringing in other characters (which of course they will).
When the Harry Potter movies ended if they came out and said you know what, we need a spinoff movie to these Harry Potter movies featuring….Harry Potter, you wouldn’t think of that as a spinoff. You would say it’s another movie in the original franchise.
This would be like doing a Tony Soprano spinoff after The Sopranos ended. You would watch that as just a continuation of what you just saw not some new thing.
So I don’t know what they are going for here. I hope they don’t retcon stuff from season 8 because that would be a terrible idea, regardless of what you may think of that season.
Exactly. It could be any kind of vision, anything. There is so much story yet that could be done with Dany. Especially with her ending leaving such a sour taste in quite a few viewers’ mouths. And it would certainly make sense HBO not announcing anything with Emilia if they want some kind of surprise — if that were the plan — even if Emilia Clarke is coming back because they’d announce it later and fashion it, yes, as flashbacks, etc.
I just think that a really strong way of restoring that shine would be a Dany resurrection. :shrugs: I mean… again, the tools are all there. D&D even said that Drogon took her body to Volantis. (Yes, yes, I know they fudged up and meant to say Valyria, but still, they SAID Volantis.)
Resurrecting Dany would be a bad idea imo. It would be an admission that S8 was bad and badly received. Plus, resurrected people in Westeros do not come back as they were, she would be a shadow of her former self, who wants that really? I don’t think Emilia would do it anyway, i’d be surprised if she even agreed to appear in flashbacks tbh. It just gets very messy when you start undoing things like that
Bringing her back would be a terrible idea. They said Volantis when did anybody claim they screwed up and meant Valyria? They said it headed towards Volantis. That doesn’t mean the messed up or forgot.
Except Harry Potter and Tony Soprano were main characters. GOT was an ensemble and was not “The Jon Snow Show.” Besides, all of the main conflicts of GOT were resolved in season 8. This new show is about one character from GOT who will most likely be faced with a whole new obstacle. Spin-off is the correct term.
Sue the Fury,
*Taps mic* Is this thing still on? 😉
Ah, WOTW is back. Not sure what happened last year, but it’s great to see this site up and running normally again. Thank you to Sue and the rest of the WOTW team for fixing things (Sue, excellent article as always too). I also see some familiar friendly names are posting comments here again, along with some newbies making great points too.
Gotta admit, the news about the potential show came as a big surprise to me as well. Definitely was not expecting this. But as surprises go, this is a pleasant one. Let’s be honest, some of us found ourselves slowly grinning once this news sunk in. It would be fantastic to have Kit back, and the potential for storylines and Planetos-spanning world-building is huge. I also suspect *this* show would be the GoT spinoff to really grab the wider audience’s interest in advance; hopefully it would match the inevitable hype and — as others here have noted — Jon’s storyline and characterisation in the sequel will not be mishandled, as happened with a certain Luke Skywalker.
Much will hinge on the showrunner/writer, especially if GRRM has no involvement and/or Jon’s future story significantly diverges from whatever GRRM has imagined. Some suggestions:
+ Steven Erikson. Huge experience in writing intelligent, gritty, philosophical, epic medieval fantasy, thanks to his acclaimed Malazan Empire books. Possibly the obvious choice, assuming he’s available and interested.
+ Bernard Cornwell. Same as Erikson, minus the fantasy aspects. Depends on how much the Jon Snow sequel intends to emphasise the “medieval realism” part (one of the things that made GoT so popular) more than the fantasy elements. Also, Cornwell is friends with GRRM, so presumably it would be easy for them to brainstorm stuff too if necessary, even if it’s informally.
+ Jonathan E. Steinberg and Robert Levine, the showrunners for “Black Sails”. I’ve praised that show many times here before, so I won’t bore everyone by doing it yet again. But if you remember my comments, and especially if you’ve seen Black Sails yourself, you’ll understand why Steinberg and Levine could be good choices this time too.
+ Ridley Scott, mainly due to his superb director’s cut of “Kingdom of Heaven” (and of course “Gladiator” too). It would be really interesting to see what Scott would do with a GoT sequel.
+ Taylor Sheridan. I’m a latecomer to “Yellowstone” — we’ve only had the first 2 seasons here in the UK so far, so no spoilers please! — but I’ll admit it’s actually pretty good stuff; I’d love to see Yellowstone’s various prequels and spinoffs too. Very different genre to GoTWorld, but there’s a lot of tonal and philosophical overlaps. The chances of Sheridan helming the GoT sequel is possibly a long shot, given the multiple projects he’s already handling, but I think it would be an intriguing idea.
That was the case in the show. In the books resurrection feels random. Beric played no part in the war against WW in the books, since he already died in A Storm od Swords.
Or Cat. She probably won’t play any role in the war against WW.
Yes it was an ensemble cast, but I won’t pretend that most didn’t view Jon Snow as either one of if not the main character. The character had the most screen time in multiple seasons, and finished slightly behind Tyrion for most overall.
It’s semantics to pretend that Jon Snow was not viewed as the main character in the show, simply because they liked to refer themselves as an ensemble cast.
Yes, I was going off of show canon.
I disagree, but the connection is less direct in the books. If you recall, Beric had a mission, and as his memories slipped, the mission became all-consuming: Bring Gregor Clegane to justice by order of Ned Stark. Furthermore, Beric’s connection to the Dayne family and therefore the events surrounding Jon Snow’s birth are significant (more info to come in future books I suspect) and is part of why Ned chose him in the first place to go after Gregor. Beric shared the respect shrouded in secrecy that the Daynes did for Ned Stark.
So yes, Beric died in the books, but he passed on his “fire” to Cat creating Stoneheart, and Stoneheart also had a single-minded mission that, in the end, is going to lead to a confrontation with Brienne, Jaime and Sandor, as well as one part of Ned Stark’s sword of justice; Ice. Stoneheart in the books is going to have a role in getting Arya to go North instead of South, eventually to kill the Night King perhaps. Stoneheart will be a factor in why and how Jaime and Brienne also go North to fight the Night King, and ditto Sandor. And of course, Sandor et al in the end will be the ones to fulfill Beric’s original mission to bring Gregor to justice. I am willing to bet this will happen with one half of Ned’s sword, or both.
Jon was my favorite character, I would love to have more of his story, however, I’d hate to see Kit suffer if he was just doing it for the money. I myself am not excited about the upcoming show – to me, what’s the point of watching a family that you know is going to all but die put in the end?
However – one thought that stayed with me at the end of GOT is that Jon is still a Targaryen. Any child he has could try and claim the throne, could he/she not? So the Targaryen line is not REALLY dead. I’d watch a show where Jon tried and failed at raising his children to fear the throne.
Sorry, left out the quote in my previous comment which made it confusing. What I was trying to say is that the connection Beric’s resurrection has to « the great war » ie. the Lord of Light versus the Night King is real but follows a more convoluted path, and that Beric’s and Ned’s shared history is part of why R’hllor would have used him as a vessel, if you will, for his ends. Because of that connection, Beric knows that the mission will continue if his resurrection fire is passed on to Cat. In other words, he died in the books but his death was not at all the end of that resurrection path and the objectives in contained.
Yes, Jon had more screen time than most of the other characters, but I don’t see why that matters. In every ensemble, there are always characters who receive more focus than others, but that doesn’t make it any less of an ensemble.
As for people perceiving Jon as the main character, there are also people who consider Tyrion to be the main character. Others see Daenerys as the main character. Jon fans thinking of Jon as the main character means very little.
Think of the plot to GOT. Powerful families fight for the Iron Throne while ignoring the ever encroaching threat to the North. Details for this new show haven’t been revealed yet, but I doubt it’s connected to the plot of GOT and strongly believe it will be it’s own thing, so it can’t be considered as season 9.
Powerful families don’t fight for the Iron Throne anymore. They just give it to whomever has the best story.
I’m talking about the plot of GOT. Choosing Bran as king and ushering in a new age of democratically electing the next ruler was the show’s way of resolving the plot, and yet another reason why this Jon Snow spin-off can’t be considered season 9.
Besides, you, like so many before you, are deliberately leaving out the rest of Tyrion’s quote. He called Bran “the world’s memory,” meaning he has an arsenal of knowledge at his disposal, something that could only help his kingship. Considering who he chose to be on his small council, I’d say Westeros is in very good hands.
Of course it was, but they didn’t truly democratically elect him. A very small handful of privileged families elected him because he’s the Three-Eyed Raven, even though most of the people at that meeting had no idea what a Three-Eyed Raven is or why they should care. It’s a far cry from being of the people, by the people, and for the people. Despite Tyrion claiming the new system breaks the wheel as Daenerys’ imagined, it doesn’t in any way stop the great houses from continuing to crush the lowborn people beneath them.
I know, this is where I’m told that true democracy is just too radical of an idea.
Commoners choosing their own leaders would still be too foreign to be embraced. Only, that isn’t strictly true: Game of Thrones is replete with examples of functioning democratic systems. At the Night’s Watch, we see representative democracy in the form of the “Choosing,” when a new Lord Commander is picked via direct vote. Likewise, Jon Snow spends significant time among the wildlings, where the Free Folk decide individually who to follow. Other quasi-democratic systems are also in play in the Seven Kingdoms and beyond, such as the Iron Island’s “Kingsmoot,” when ship captains elect their new leader, as well as in the Free Cities of Essos, where republics are ruled by chosen leaders selected from the mercantile elite.
Having an arsenal of knowledge is great, but it doesn’t necessarily help you rule. You also have to be good at dealing with people to be a good ruler. Bran has no people skills whatsoever. You can be 100% correct all the time and still be hated by your constituency.
Not that I really care about this, but since you mention it, Bronn is probably the worst possible choice for Master of Coin.
I think Bran would’ve made a better consigliere than king. He would be a great adviser with his knowledge. His people skills are terrible though. Maybe have a king with people skills with a highly educated advising team to back him/her.
• Wait, what? What’d I miss? Kit Harington is supposed to play the Black Knight? Is that a reboot?
“The Black Knight always triumphs!”
• I wouldn’t mind if the Jon Snow sequel series borrows dialogue from Monty Python to retcon a few GoT scenes, like Jon and Arya’s reunion in Winterfell (S8e1):
Jon: “How did you sneak up on me?”
Arya: “How did you survive a knife through the heart?”
Jon: “It’s just a flesh wound.”
Jon: “How did you survive a knife through the colon?”
Arya: “ ‘Tis but a scratch.”
On second thought, let’s not go to Winterfell. It’s a silly place.
I have to disagree with you there. The only person qualified to be on the small council is Tyrion. Bronn is a joke, Sam’s promotion makes no sense, Brienne serving Bran instead of Sansa is weird. We know and like these characters but that council line up is bizarre.
I’ve given up trying to make sense of Bran being King. This is the one part of the ending that I just can’t get my head around. The Other Stark endings are good. Which is why it’s odd for them to pick at it. Or maybe that’s why they chose it, I don’t think they would have a clue what to write for Bran post S8
“I’ve done my part, I’ve brought Ice and Fire together” There is a lot more to the Game of Thrones story to be told. This Jon Snow sequel news is a teaser for Season 9 which has already been filmed. 2 Years is along time to film 6 episodes – aka: S8… 6 brand new Game of Thrones episodes have already been filmed. GRRM’s bittersweet ending is foreshadowed in S4.. D&D did a brilliant job foreshadowing what will happen in Season 9… “Expectations will be subverted” April 21st?
They’re going to subvert your expectations so much that it won’t even air at all!
It all depends if his story would be as good or better than Bran’s. I suppose they could have an essay contest at the Dragonpit?
I can’t really see Jon having a family now. Perhaps many years down the line, he is still very young. He’s 0/2 so far, enough to put him off for life. Maybe if Val survives, though it’s unlikely
Great to hear from you!! I hope you are doing well!!! I just got a craving for some GOT oreos!
Yeah, I’m not sure if it will be made now that the Immortals did so poorly.
This is a teaser, but I think it’s fan made. It does have the scene from the Immortals that teases he will become the Black Knight
Monty Python…. “It’s just a flesh wound…” (to add to your stabbing dialogue)
Even though GoT was an ensemble making the spinoff about Jon Snow makes sense.
Everything is about the Targaryens.
Really surprised to hear this and I don’t see a full fledged tvshow with multiple seasons working.
But a miniseries with Jon travelling deep into the North trying to find more answers about the WW, CotF etc would be pretty cool. Which the main show obviously didn’t have the time to dive into.
I’ve rewatched the entire show a couple of times now and in hindsight(!) it really is a shame they cut Bran out of S5. Instead of having screentime wasted on the Sand Snakes, they could’ve used it on Bran and tell us a bit more about the WW and stuff.
The Wolves of Winter,
I agree that it would be difficult to make a show about Jon Snow post-Season 8 last very long. What the heck is he going to be doing up North now that the White Walkers have been defeated? How will this show keep anyone’s interest without compromising what already took place in 8 seasons of GoT?
Of course, they will probably pull the old “oh, you thought the White Walkers were dead? Well, there is, um, actually a super duper White Walker still alive that Jon Snow will have to deal with now!”
I just really hope that GoT won’t turn into Star Wars, where they just keep churning out “content” over and over again rather than come up with an actual unique story that can stand on it’s own without having to constantly reference the past and rely on it as a crutch.
The Wolves of Winter,
By the way, how did re-watching the show work out for you? There are so many episodes of GoT that I love and would love to re-watch at some point, but the ending kind of killed any momentum that I had to motivate myself to actually do a re-watch.
Maybe some day.
Yes, the system isn’t a true democracy, but it’s certainly a step in the right direction. The wheel was certainly broken by the end of the series, the status quo is gone. By having the lords decide the king, it gives the king less power. That can only be good for the common people of Westeros.
I felt like Bran’s people skills were improving, at least when comparing season 7 to season 8. Besides, it looks like he’ll be consulting his small council and will listen to their advice.
Bronn is the outlier, but I’ll still take him over Littlefinger. The rest of the small council couldn’t be better.
Bronn is the only questionable small council member. Sam has proven himself to be a highly capable maester, but also his personality and honorable nature is one of the reasons I consider Bran’s small council to be great. Brienne’s trajectory to becoming Commander of the Kingsguard makes sense, especially since she was honoring Jaime’s memory.I’m not surprised that’s where her story was headed.
Bran becoming king was my only complaint of the final season. The rest of the characters received endings that they were clearly leading up to, but I can’t find any instance that foreshadowed Bran was going to lead Westeros one day. However, from a story perspective, it made sense. Any one of the lords at the council was eligible, so Bran was as likely of a candidate as any of them.
It seems a lot of you forget about Jon’s ancestory. He may have been raised in the north, but at the end of the day he is still The Last Dragon, not to mention there is still a living dragon somewhere in the world. Jon doesn’t have to fight white walkers, they are all gone. But I’d be willing to bet Drogon would come looking for him one day…Jon being the last living Targ and all….or would Job go looking for Drogon? Oh the possibilities☺
And let’s up the ante a bit. Are we 100% sure that is actually Bran ruling the six kindoms? If you look at his wheelchair in the final scenes of Season 8, I recall seeing a Three Eyed Raven on it. In the final season of GOT, “Bran” kept saying he wasn’t Brandon Stark “anymore”….so if we take this literally, who is actually ruling the Six kingdoms? And why would he care where Drogon flew off to? And why would he need a Master of War?
There was enough questions left open in the GOT finale that a sequel is definitely in order….as long as you have the true heir to the Seven Kingdoms and a living Dragon somewhere in the world, and a possible fraudulent king, the possibilities are endless😇
How can it go multiple seasons? Further exploring the North, in a standalone 1 season sequel I can see. But what if it’s successful and all involved want to do more seasons? 30+ episodes of that? I doubt it.
My biggest concern with multiple seasons is retconning stuff. Say they pay off Sophie Turner or something to make a cameo to say…well bad news Jon. Bran died and we need a new king.
That’s just a hyperbolic example, but I think you get my point. The worst thing you can do is retcon season 8 regardless of what you think about it.
I’m coming back from the ether to say that it is my belief that the last few years, shows like The Mandalorian and now Obi Wan (and soon Ashokas as well) have breathed new life into possibilities of what could be done with Jon Snow and the GOT universe. With the right people behind the scenes, it really could smooth things over in the collective consciousness. Also with some of the amazing CGI panoramic style sets they have been doing in tv and film production lately, maybe the filming doesn’t have to be as insane and hard on the cast and crew.
I’m ready to be hurt again 🤷♀️
Bran is the Three-Eyed Raven now. He stopped being Bran once he became the Three-Eyed Raven.
The raven sigil is for the Three-Eyed Raven
A most excellent post! I love your list of writers who could potentially contribute. I would definitely watch .
Bringing the WW back somehow would be kind of lame I think. And I can’t really see him go south either. We’ve been there already and assuming everything is at peace now. I also think you run the risk of it being too fanservice.
So I think further north would be the way to go and more intriguing. Plus the North like west of Westeros isn’t fully explored yet, the map stops there as well. Maybe he will go to that WW HQ we’ve seen in season 4 and uncover more of the mysteries behind it all.
And I can see Jon might want to do some soul searching after everything that had happened. He killed his lover and has been resurrected. And both Beric and Melisandre died after seemingly having fulfilled their purpose. So why is he still alive? To live happily ever after? Maybe, but I can see Jon being filled with questions and wanting answers to that.
I personally was satisfied with the ending, even though I do think things could’ve been fleshed out better. But that would require more episodes and that was never gonna happen give the scale of production at that point. It would also mean GoT to be even longer off the air.
Regardless, I have enjoyed it every time I rewatched it. And have really come to see it as one giant movie with a beginning(1-3), middle(4-6) and end(7-8). Also come to see it, given where it begins and ends, as a coming-of-age story of the Stark kids.
Danys story has also worked better on rewatch. Love the parallel between her in season 8 and Viserys in season 1.
“ Great to hear from you!! I hope you are doing well!!! I just got a craving for some GOT oreos!”
It was good to see you commenting again too! And I hope all is well in your neck of the woods.
It looks like the site is up and running and accepting comments again after going wobbly for several months. For a host of reasons, I’ve been reluctant to comment about House of the Dragon.
However, I can’t help but be intrigued by the out-of-the-blue announcement that a Jon Snow spinoff series is in development.
Whether one considers the conclusion of GoT as “brilliant” or a total sh*tshow, I felt that Jon Snow was left with a lot of unfinished business, and many of his storyline(s) introduced and built up over the first four or five seasons were abruptly jettisoned – perhaps for the sake of streamlining the show for its abbreviated screen time in its final seasons.
I believe there are plenty of lingering mysteries and conflicts that fans would like to see revisited and resolved (e.g., “I’m just a bastard” vs. “I was actually the trueborn son of a loving mother and heir to the Iron Throne”), and none of them require “retconning.”
All it’ll take is an inspired team of talented writers, and from follow-up articles and interviews it looks like that is exactly what Kit Harington and Big G have planned.
Maybe I will try to retrieve some of the tinfoil theories that I had consigned to the trash heap when GoT ended…like the WWs’ origins, the reasons for their return, and the motives for their genocidal campaign against humanity*,; the fulfillment of the “Prince(ss) that was Promised” and other prophecies; Rhaegar’s third child imperative, etc. ) All of these loose ends and abandoned or undeveloped storylines could be addressed and tied up in a Jon Snow sequel series without screwing around with established show! canon. And with the Big Kahuna’s oversight, the sequel’s storylines could hew closely to what he’s got planned for the books, as opposed to GoT’s show-only developments in latter seasons untethered from any source material. (Yes, George, that’s on you.)
* Hi, Adrianacandle! You know where I’m going with this (i.e., my extrapolations from the S6e5 CotF creating the WWs reveal + the recurring “victim vs. villain” inversion theme throughout GoT). 😵💫
Friday, 6-24-22 4:14 pm.
I just tried to post a reply to your reply. For whatever reason, the Lord of Light intercepted it and my comment is “awaiting moderation.” Hopefully it will soon be released from purgatory.
This idea was first pitched back around season 6 and was reported by I think the same source then. Now perhaps Kit has distanced himself because he knew it was a possibility but didn’t want to spill the beans (especially without spoiling the stories ending) however more likely his career post GOT has not progressed – to be fair like most stars of the show..
I’m still relatively luke warm on the prospect of House of the Dragon and the proposed Dunk & Egg series but this one I think could be the best of all of them.
Add me to this list, Sansa was one of the worst characters for me, I’d rather not see her in this sequel unless it’s a very brief cameo appearance. On another note Sophie has probably done the best of the GOT crew in terms of $$ made from big blockbusters even though most of them have flopped hard so she may not even want to come back now.
No chance they bring back Dany, that would completely undo the whole story of GOT/ASOIF. At best there is a cameo in a flashback.
You literally described me, i was so over with everything and i don’care about HOD at all, but as soon as i hear Jon Snow i was in 😉
Some good points but no, it will not happen with GOT.
They can take my money.
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