News about the 10th anniversary of Game of Thrones (April 17th, for those of us keeping tabs) just keeps rolling in, and I, for one, am not mad about that in the least.
Adding to the growing list of events, merch, and more known as the Iron Anniversary was news from The Hollywood Reporter that HBO released a “new” Season 8 trailer for the show, which doesn’t contain any previously unused footage but is new in the sense that it’s a re-edited version chock-full of the special effects, drama, and “lavish spectacle” of the final season. It’s more of a recap, and of course it’s prompting all KINDS of comments (use your imagination), but it was nice to watch it and reminisce about the show itself and the insane hype leading up to S8.
In addition, The Wrap reported that as of April 6th, the Conan O’Brien-hosted GoT reunion special taped in Northern Ireland in 2018 after production wrapped on the series is now streaming on HBO Max. Previously, it was only available as an extra feature on the “complete series” or “complete collection” Blu-ray box set of GoT, but in honor of the upcoming anniversary, HBO has made the special — featuring appearances by Emilia Clarke, Sophie Turner, Maisie Williams, Isaac Hempstead Wright, Sean Bean, Kit Harington, Lena Headey, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Peter Dinklage, Mark Addy and Jason Momoa — available on its streaming platform.
This isn’t the last we’ll hear of Iron Anniversary celebrations, so stay tuned to WoTW for all of the updates!
They released new trailers for ALL the seasons.
Oh it was a lot of fun, nothing groundbreaking, but I thought it was a shame that only those who bought Special Edition could watch it.
Now all users of HBO GO and HBO MAX can enjoy.
I imagine that the 10 year anniversary promotions are not so small a part of drumming up excitement for HotD.
HBO releases extended versions of “The cast remembers” and several bts videos too.
https://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/the-iron-anniversary
Pigeon,
It’s a good opportunity. Casey Bloys talked about shooting starting in April. I hope corona won’t fuck up things, but it seems that things are getting better in UK. I don’t know what is the situation in Spain.
I don’t think they will shoot in Croatia.
It is, for sure. I have noticed a few of the shows I watch from the UK are back in or have been back in production lately, so it seems that more is happening on that front in a lot of places. I guess we just hurry up and wait. 🙂
Pigeon,
I’ve observed that too 🙂
Adrianacandle,
Re: Shows back in production in the UK
Musical Interlude
Forgive the redundancy. Because I’m excited about a likely Arya Stark + Chrissie Hynde mashup in the Sex Pistols series currently being filmed in London, here’s “Stop Your Sobbing” by Chrissie Hynde & The Pretenders in 1979.
Ten Bears,
Ooooh, thanks, TB!
Not directly linked but this morning I took part in a U3A (organisation for retired and semi-retired people in the UK) Spanish class by Zoom and next week’s homework (from a course ‘Nuevel Prisma Nivel B1’ is about ‘La novela y el guion de cine’ and one question refers to ‘Me gusto mas el libro’ (I liked the book better) and I couldn’t help but think of GoT. Folk probably know that I liked parts of the books and parts of the show and disliked parts of the tomes and maybe if I was doing the adaptation would have made different choices on occasion.
So, of course this is conjuring up some “painful” memories for people about how the series ended and how disappointed they were with the conclusion of several character arcs.
I wanted to take this opportunity to list out the things off the top of my head the final season got right particularly with how the characters’ arcs ended.
-Jon (the conclusion of his arc being bittersweet also made the most sense for his character).
-Sansa
-Arya
-The Hound
-Brienne
-Theon
-Melisandre
-Beric
-Gendry
-Sam
-Davos
Feel free to tell me how wrong I am 🙂
Dame of Mercia,
”…next week’s homework (from a course ‘Nuevel Prisma Nivel B1’ is about ‘La novela y el guion de cine’ and one question refers to ‘Me gusto mas el libro’ (I liked the book better)…”
For morons like me who never learned Spanish even though I’ve lived in Miami, and don’t know how to use Google Translate, what does this mean?
Ten Bears,
Prisma literally means prism – so ‘New Prism – level B1’ If any Spanish mother tongue people know of an alternative meaning for prisma feel free to enlighten me. The subject of the homework is the novel and the film script.
Joseph Mobile,
I confess I did cringe with this article because of resparking the same old season 8 fights/rants/defenses again two years later, which seem tired and worn out…. and not like they’re changing anytime soon. But I appreciate remembering the fond things about the show 🙂
Joseph Mobile,
”I wanted to take this opportunity to list out the things off the top of my head the final season got right particularly with how the characters’ arcs ended.
-Jon (the conclusion of his arc being bittersweet also made the most sense for his character).
-Sansa
-Arya
-The Hound
-Brienne
-Theon
-Melisandre
-Beric
-Gendry
-Sam
-Davos
Feel free to tell me how wrong I am 🙂”
Okay! I’ll play! Legend
❌ = Awful
✅ = Well done
✳️ = Exemplary
❓ = Didn’t make sense
🚫 = No. Just no.
♥️ = Loved it.
💤 = Boring
♨️ = Lukewarm
🗑 = Trash
⌛️ = Insufficient screen time
• Jon❓(Sorry. Jon got neutered.)
• Sansa 🚫 (“Smartest person I’ve ever met”?)
• The Hound ✅ (Except for suicide-by-Gregor for no reason)
• Brienne 💤 (Wham Bam thank you ma’am. Really? 😡)
• Theon ⌛️
• Melisandre ✳️ 🔥
• Beric ✅ ⚡️ (See my prior comment yesterday under previous post)
• Gendry ♨️ (I was okay with it until his marriage proposal and Arya’s “It’s not you it’s me” blowoff)
• Sam ❓ Despite the buildup, Mr. Wizard didn’t do squat.
• Davos ♨️ (Well, Davos did get to witness whirling and twirling Arya lop off zombies’ heads, though I wanted to see Jon gobsmacked with his little sister’s mad skills. Other than that…suggesting to a band of eunuchs to “start your own House”? 🤔)
• P.S. I see you left off Tyrion. ❌ Good. He got lobotomized, turned into a gullible idiot, and had to deliver ridiculous dialogue. Poor Peter.
-bracing for the comments-
Adrianacandle,
It’s probably good that I’m not an HBO executive. I would green light a sequel series based on the following pitch:
“While traveling on the King’s Road, Jojen Reed and Arya Stark find themselves transported to the King’s Road in 1970’s London, where they have to blend in until they can figure out how to return to their universe. While in London, they inadvertently become punk rock music and fashion icons while working in a King’s Road clothes shop alongside Chrissie Hynde before she became famous as lead singer of the Pretenders.”
This scenario kind of reminds me of a Doctor Who episode I enjoyed, “Vincent and the Doctor,” in which the Doctor (played by Matt Smith aka HotD’s Daemon Targaryen) time travels to late 1800’s France and meets obscure artist Vincent van Gogh. A highlight [⚠️ Spoiler:
Excerpt of episode synopsis from wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_and_the_Doctor
Curtis, inspired by the fact that Van Gogh never knew he would be famous, had the idea for an episode centred on him…”
* To really jump the shark🦈, later in my hypothetical series
Needless to say, the current chief of HBO Casey Bloys would fire me and pull the plug on such a series faster than he euthanized “Blood Moon.”
I’d watch that, actually! Characters don’t have to be named Arya Stark and Jojen Reed exactly (maybe Raya Karts and Nojej Deer) though they may share startling similarities with mysterious, uncanny medieval past selves and lives they only vaguely remember… 😉
I pretty much loved all the GOT trailers, it this one undoubtedly remains my favourite…
I just watched the new trailer.
I was surprised when I saw Jon Snow drawing his sword and then immediately it showed the Night King. The trailer made it look like Jon was going to have a one-on-one fight with the Night King, which we know never happened. Was someone at HBO just trying to make a point or promote fan fiction?
I don’t think it’s either. I believe these trailers are more overviews than anything else — spoilery enough to give an overview for those who have already seen the seasons, not so spoilery that they give away what actually happens for those who haven’t. I imagine, though, these trailers were made knowing that many have already seen what happens.
Joseph Mobile,
I feel the opposite. This trailer has me excited for when I eventually reach season 8 on my rewatch. Great season and great ending!
That’s a nice list of characters. I would also add Danerys, Jaime, and Cersei. Though I would have liked Cersei to have done more in her final season, I appreciated her ending and found it poetic.
Ten Bears,
I actually like it! it could have been fun!
Ten Bears,
To each his own I disagree with all of this.
I am not being facetious. I am curious why you found Cersei’s ending “poetic.”
For me, a “poetic ending” for Cersei would have been, e.g.:
• When she tries to scoot by Sandor, he lops off her head with one ferocious swing of his big f*cking sword that sends her head flying out the window; the camera tracks its descent from the top of the Red Keep all the way down to street level and into the arms of … Grey Worm. [Get it? A nice bookend scene for Missandei’s decapitation.]
• Right before the ceiling caves in, when Cersei is whining to Jamie about “my baby, my baby”, and Jamie tries to comfort her, Cersei confesses: “Tyrion’s the father.” [Strong rumbling sound followed by bricks crashing down. End Scene.]
• Cersei awakens from a drunken stupor to find herself strapped to a board with someone pouring wine down her throat.
Voice: “You remember Sandor Clegane. He doesn’t like talkers very much either. Your gods have forsaken you. He’s your God now.”
Cersei: “Wwwhat? Who are you?”
Voice: “No one.”
• Cersei is mortally wounded by an impaled sword. Qyburn works his magic, turns her into a zombie like FrankenGregor.
• Right before the Red Keep is about to crumble around her, Cersei hears a strange trumpeting sound … it’s her elephants! Arriving just in the nick of time to save her! Pachyderm ex machina.
🐘🐘🐘🐘🐘🐘
…And now I have to buy screen-cleaner 😂
Ten Bears,
Jaime and Cersei came into the world together and they left the world together. Poetic.
*wails*
I just wanted to clarify (I thought in hindsight that an earlier comment of mine was ambiguous) that in the Spanish class yesterday, we didn’t discuss GoT – no mention of the show was made. It was simply that in the course book there was an exercise featuring the adapting of books to the screen which reminded me as an individual of the controversy surrounding the end of GoT. I DON’T want to re-open discussion on that matter – people who disliked the ending will continue to dislike it and persons like myself who take a more lenient view won’t be able to change other folks’ minds.
Adrianacandle,
Right before the ceiling caves in, when Cersei is whining to Jamie about “my baby, my baby”, and Jamie tries to comfort her, Cersei confesses: “Tyrion’s the father.”
Musical Interlude
Dedicated to Cersei
Chrissie Hynde & The Pretenders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM9inLPrq6c
🤱
Ten Bears,
Ooooh can we do a Maury Povich “You are not the father” special?
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/349/1728animated_gif_not_the_father.gif
Ten Bears,
Sure!
– Though for Ned Stark we’ll need a slightly less exuberant dance.
– What about book readers’ tinfoil theories that Tywin is not the father of Tyrion? Or was it Jamie & Cersei?
– A**hole Randyll Tarly confronting Sam with Baby Sam, “You are not the father” as an accusation.
– Ned (if he had balls instead of “mercy”) to boar-gored Robert: “You are not the father.”
Who else can be on the show? Any other characters with questionable paternity?
Ten Bears,
Maybe there can be a Maury Povich style Mythbusters type mashup show specifically designed to debunk or prove fan theories of certain characters.
“Varys, you are NOT a merman!”
Haha! XD
“Bran, that weirwood paste you were fed DOES have Jojen bits in it!”
Adrianacandle,
In a strange way I’m more looking forward to “Pistol” as a GoT spinoff than HotD, maybe because of the presence of familiar faces Maisie Williams and Thomas Brodie-Sangster…
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/04/01/17/41226654-0-Roles_Thomas_is_best_known_for_his_roles_in_Love_Actually_Nanny_-a-30_1617293352522.jpg
… and the mash-up of their characters (Malcolm McClaren and Jordan) with pre-rock goddess era Chrissie Hynde.
Mr Derp,
An even better idea!
Ten Bears,
I am looking forward to the series too. I also really like Thomas Brodie-Sangster. Have you seen The Queen’s Gambit? He’s in that mini series and he was really good. I didn’t even recognize him at first.
Only because I have a cousin and sister those ages! 🙂 My cousin turns 24 this month as well (April 1997) while my sister turned 31 in February (Feb 1990)!
Mr Derp,
“Stannis, you are NOT the Prince That Was Promised.”
“Daenerys, you are NOT the heir(ess) to the Iron Throne.”
Ten Bears,
“Cersei, Tyrion is NOT valonqar! Have fun figuring out who is.”
Just imagine Varys’s shock and heartbreak about this book fan theory not being a thing….
Young Dragon,
I agree I like how the two of them were always meant to leave together. We don’t choose the people we love and Jamie was never going to be able to break from Cersei. I want to die in the arms of the women i love. The two of their actions over the series lead them both to a dead end and there was no longer an escape for them. they both continued to ruin any relationship that had outside of the two of them. they both had nowhere else left to turn other then tyrion.
Adrianacandle,
So do I! I’m constantly looking for films and TV shows with beloved GOT actors. and, because you mentioned Queen’s Gambit, which I enjoyed, I would have liked Anya Taylor-Joy to play a part in HotD she is a fine actress and strange characters suit her style.
Anya Taylor-Joy is fantastic! And I’d love to see her in HotD. I wonder what role she could play? That’s a fun idea to mentally roll around! 🙂
I’d like to suggest….
Even if she’s abusive and paid someone to have you killed?
Adrianacandle,
Wow, thank you so much! I have almost forgotten that Sean Bean can play evil…
Shy Lady Dragon,
He’s really good in it! Jennifer Connelly, the other big name, also does a great job in the series.
Mr Derp,
I certainly wouldn’t but I never been in a relationship like that. i was referring to a season 5 quote by Jamie.
I understand that. It’s a great line. I’m just applying it to Cersei and Jaime’s specific relationship. It was a toxic relationship in just about every way, so I don’t find much poetry in them dying together. That specific line is poetic, but not their relationship, IMO.
I will say it sort of made sense, but it wasn’t particularly satisfying to me. Ultimately, Jaime couldn’t quit the woman who abused him and tried to have him killed. He ended up dying for her, which, I have no respect for.
Ok, now that I think about it, it didn’t make a lot of sense. I don’t care how much I love someone, if they’re trying to have me killed it’s over. It’s kind of weird even having to say that. Cersei wasn’t even dedicated to Jaime very much. How many times did she cheat on him?
Again, it is what it is, but that’s a pretty unsatisfying ending to me.
Mr Derp,
Jaime’s end was tragic. I don’t mind tragic endings, so long as they’re well done, as is the case with Jaime. He tried being with Brienne, a woman who treated him with respect, but in the end, he couldn’t get past the terrible things he’d done. Cersei’s love was the love he felt he deserved, so that’s why he went back for her. As a Jaime fan, I was perfectly satisfied with his ending. His farewell to Brienne and Tyrion were both heartbreaking.
I agree Jaime’s farewell to Tyrion was very well done.
Mr Derp,
I do agree for a normal sane person. but i don’t think they are. I think they are narcissist. game of thrones the show is more of a tragedy then a fantasy like the books. this is just my opinion and why i enjoy it on rewatch but i completely get if people don’t enjoy their endings. For me I didn’t need some crazy death for Cersei and I dont need a complete character redemption moment for Jamie. I feel Jamie is just a guy who cant get out of his own way and for every good deed he has 10 bad deeds.
Mr Derp,
It was a toxic relationship in just about every way, so I don’t find much poetry in them dying together. That specific line is poetic, but not their relationship, IMO.
I agree completely. Theirs was truly a toxic relationship, both for themselves, and for everyone around them.
…if they’re trying to have me killed it’s over.
That’s what we normal, sane persons say, yes. By contrast, Jaime never really had that chance. He was born with her, he had that bond with her twins sometimes had, but in this case, he was bonded to a truly awful character who didn’t return the favor. Then he had decades of Authoritarian Father constantly harping, “Lannisters Uber Alles” at him. Everywhere he went outside of Casterly Rock and the Red Keep, he heard “Kingslayer,” even though he’d saved an entire city — the same city where he became just another mortality statistic, courtesy of another blonde queen. (I don’t know if that counts as “poetic,” either, but it certainly seems thematically appropriate for his character.)
One of the undercurrents of the entire story was Tywin Lannister’s constant propagation of his elitist, paterfamilias attitude upon his sons, who, intelligent and rebellious though they both were, could never break free of it. Even after Cersei tried to have each of them (and both of them!) killed, they would not stop trying to appeal to her never-existent sane rationality. Many viewers commented upon Tyrion’s supposed stupidity in so doing, but he was pursuing the contradictory goals of saving both Westeros and the Lannisters. (He actually seemed to believe a one-handed man and a pregnant woman, neither of them particularly young nor skilled in maritime arts, were going to survive many leagues of open-sea travel in a rowboat. Now, that’s some truly world-class desperation, that is!)
Tensor the Mage, Still Loving the Ending,
”He [Tyrion] actually seemed to believe a one-handed man and a pregnant woman, neither of them particularly young nor skilled in maritime arts, were going to survive many leagues of open-sea travel in a rowboat. Now, that’s some truly world-class desperation, that is!”
Par for the course for post-S6 lobotomized Tyrion – author of the ridiculous Wight Hunt and a host of other equally “clever plans.”
(Internal monologue: “I can totally trust Cersei now! She’s got a bun in the oven.”)
Shy Lady Dragon,
Attempting RePost 10:37 pm
Have you seen Natalie Dormer as Irene Adler in “Elementary” (CBS)?
Sherlock Holmes (Jonny Lee Miller) meets Irene Adler (Natalie Dormer) [4:56 long]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPd2_w3A8oE
—-
Here is a brief musical break. Kinda fits the mood of these days. This is from HBO’s “ROME”…music by Jeff Beal, the theme is “Terrible News”:
And here is “Farewells, The Storm”
loco73,
”Here is a brief musical break. Kinda fits the mood of these days.”
To fit the mood these days, here’s a
musical interlude dedicated to … Pfizer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VopgyAc-F9U
💉
Musical Interlude
🎶 “If I could choose a place to die
It would be in your arms.”
…….
“It’s all wrong, but it’s all right.
The way that you treat me baby.
Once I was strong but I lost the fight.
You won’t find a better loser.” 🎶
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKAYGVIkbok
Derek and the Dominos
Ten Bears,
Thank you! I have never watched Elementary, although I know about it – there is not enough time for all these fine TV shows! But, after watching the fragment, I am very interested and I’m going to start watching this weekend.
Ten Bears,
LOL…good one!
Shy Lady Dragon,
FYI: About Natalie Dormer on “Elementary” (CBS):
She had a recurring role on the show,
The “downside” to Natalie Dormer’s popularity as Margaery on GoT was that she was so much in demand that it became difficult to coordinate appearances in New York where “Elementary” was filmed. (On several later episodes she appeared in voiceovers that she was able to record elsewhere, i.e., in letters other characters read aloud.)
The showrunners of “Elementary” planned on having her return “in person” for more storylines during the show’s run, but were unable to align schedules.
In addition to the fragment I linked, Natalie Dormer had several other “high thread count” scenes with Jonny Lee Miller. I could link a few of those scenes but would not want to spoil anything in case you’re planning on watching “Elementary.”
Oh, almost forgot! Six Degrees of HotD tie-in.
Rhys Ifans, who’s been cast as Otto Hightower, Queen Alicent’s dad, played Mycroft Holmes, Sherlock’s brother, on “Elementary.”
Ten Bears,
Thanks a lot!
I have watched the first episode and I plan to watch the series. Very interesting idea to make Dr. Watson a woman… and also Moriarty 🙂 I must confess, I have read a bit about the show. I don’t mind spoilers, somehow knowing facts makes me more attentive to how they are presented.
I know Rhys Ifans, I believe I have first seen him in Harry Potter. I have first seen Natalie in The Tudors, I can’t imagine a more suitable Anne Boleyn.
Shy Lady Dragon,
I read somewhere that the people behind ‘The Tudors’ were a tad miffed that Natalie D had dyed her naturally light hair dark when she got the part of Anne Boleyn. The historical Anne was dark-haired but it seems the show-runners there wanted a blonde and blue-eyed Ann.
Dame of Mercia,
I’m glad they didn’t get a blonde Anne Boleyn!
While watching The Tudors I thought Natalie was a brunette naturally and then, as a brown haired Margaery, the difference was not so striking. So, when I first saw her as a blonde, it seemed odd, although all three suit her. I prefer Natalie dark haired as I don’t like fair hair much. I’m a blonde naturally, but I dye my hair red.
Agree with all these characters and for me, it’s also Daenerys, Cersei and Jaime. Also, I have zero painful memories of S8 itself because I loved it and two of its episodes are among my top 5 GoT episodes.
I’m watching a youtuber react to GoT episodes for the first time… and I just saw his reaction to 1.10. He’s so excited with the birth of the dragons, the idea of the dragons attacking King’s Landing, burning entire armies…. and that just reminds me what a GREAT twist the ending of this show was. We were all led to cheering mass murder because in fantasy, dragons sound great. But when it became a reality, we saw the hard truth about that.
That’s what makes GOT unique, in my opinion. Deconstructing traiditional fantasy tropes.
For me, season 8 is definitely one of the best GOT seasons, and I’m absolutely serious about it. (And the second half of the season was much better and more interesting than the first half).
Shy Lady Dragon,
Here’s a video of Natalie Dormer and Katie McGrath (who darkens her hair) doing the ice bucket challenge from a few ago. https://youtu.be/i0Ckf7fIOgk Katie once said she got into acting because she was working with such things as lacing the girls into their corsets on The Tudors and some people asked her why didn’t she try her hand at acting.
Oh, cool! And just a year later, Katie McGrath was cast in a lead role in Merlin!
I also loved Natalie Dormer as Anne Boleyn — I agree that she works better as a brunette 🙂
Ten Bears,
That song is one of the few Pat Benatar tracks I liked. I heard a radio interview she gave on a visit to the UK in the early 1980s and she didn’t seem up herself and the tunes played were not unpleasant. If I hadn’t recognised her name I wouldn’t have realised it was the same singer doing ‘Love is a Battlefield’ (which surprise, surprise, I hated). Apparently she has a four octave range and was operatically trained but she rarely showed it – I found her later stuff ‘shouty’.
Dame of Mercia,
Thank you! They were both so cute! I liked that Natalie nominated her Elementary colleagues as I started watching Elementary yesterday. I have seen her so far only in the fragment posted by Ten Bears as I have watched only the first five episodes.
Erik, formerly Lord Parramandas,
”Also, I have zero painful memories of S8 itself because I loved it and two of its episodes are among my top 5 GoT episodes.”
Painful Memories 😖
• Tyrion S8e6: “Stories…”
• Tyrion S8e4/5: “Your baby, your baby, blah blah blah…”
• Bran/Sam S8e2: “Memories… forgetting” etc. [NK’s motive]; formulating stupid Bran Bait Plan
• Jon Snow aka Aegon the Gelded: “She is my queen” x 10
• Varys treason-for-no-reason
• Every Euron (*wince!*) scene
• Arya: “She’s the smartest person I’ve ever met”
• Sansa & Arya: “We don’t like your hot blonde girlfriend”
• Sansa: “Thanks to being brutalized I’m a Big Bird now!”
• S8e3: NK showboating. Again. And Arya beamed down from the Starship Enterprise and materializing out of thin air to shank him.
• Nonappearance of Wight Karsi
• Jaime & Euron waste of screen time fight scene
• S8e6: Punchlineless jackass & honeycomb “joke” for a third time.
• Rhaegal: “You’re sh*tting me, right? Two midair bullseyes right into my neck from a mile away?”
• Drogon: “Why am I melting this chair?”
Good Memories 😘
• Sandor S8e2: “I fought for you, didn’t I?”
• Arya S8e1: “You don’t know any other rich girls (walks away; spins and smiles)
• Sandor S8e1: “You’re a cold little bitch aren’t you. Guess that’s why you’re still alive.”
• S8e1 Sandor: “You left me to die.” 😡
Arya: “First I robbed you.”🥶
⬇️
S8e4 Sandor: “You going to leave me to die again if I get hurt? 😬
Arya: “Probably” 🤪
(Both chuckle) 🤣😂
• MVP Mel in S8e3 🔥
• Jorah “I’m still standing” Mormont defending and dying for his Khaleesi.
• Cersei: “I really wanted those elephants”🐘
• S8e3 visual of charging Dothraki snuffed out like candles on a birthday cake
• Beric Dondarrion.⚡️ S8 MVP?
• S8e5: “Sandor!… Thank you.”
Shy Lady Dragon,
I think there were 7 seasons of “Elementary” with about 20 – 22 episodes per season.
In fact, I still have the final two seasons to watch…
Anyway, there are some multi-episode storylines
and stand-alone episodes I was going to recommend, starting with an episode (S4E7, “Miss Taken”) that featured a terrific young actress I’d never seen before, and had a Game of Faces vibe to it.
(to be continued…)
Dame of Mercia,
”That song is one of the few Pat Benatar tracks I liked… – I found her later stuff ‘shouty’.”
I don’t disagree with the assessment that much of her stuff was too “shouty.” Coincidentally, one of the few Pat Benatar tracks I like is going to be a musical interlude, dedicated to Cersei & Jaime.
oierem,
Season 8 was my third favorite season, after seasons 4 and 6. Though The Long Night was my favorite episode of the season, I preferred the latter three episodes to the first two.
Ten Bears,
I like Elementary, so I’m going to watch it all. For me it’s very important to connect with the characters and the actors. I find interesting these new variants of Holmes & Watson, I know and like Jonny Lee Miller & Lucy Liu.
I am glad that you stated your likes and dislikes about the final GOT season because they pretty much coincide with mine and I really didn’t want to go there again. (More than that, I replied to Mr. Derp, who happened to share my view towards Jaime’s death, but my comment disappeared.) I love GOT and was sorry for the last season, but I don’t blame anyone. I’m sure they did the best they could.
Ten Bears,
-Though I thought Bran becoming king could have been built up a little more, I was fine with the scene itself.
-Cersei’s motherhood humanizes her and makes her a more interesting character. And Tyrion trying to plead to that side of her was very well done.
-Stupid Bran Bait Plan worked and drew in the Night King, so maybe it’s not stupid after all. And the Night King’s motives are consistent with what we’ve seen.
-Jon raised an army at Winterfell, took charge of its defenses, rode a dragon into battle, knocked the Night King off Viserion, cut through a horde of wights to end the Night King, took on an Undead dragon to try and save his brother, led the charge through the gates of King’s Landing, killing many Lannister soldiers, and saved the world from a tyrant. That’s not what I called gelded.
-Varys, treason to save a city from being reduced to a pile of rubble.
-Agree about Euron
-Nothing wrong with Arya paying her sister a compliment, especially after everything they’ve been through.
-Jon’s hot blonde girlfriend stole their kingdom. How were they supposed to react to that?
-Sansa did not become a Big Bird because she was raped. She became a Big Bird in spite of getting raped. There’s a big difference.
-The Night King showboating is in his character. And Arya did not materialize, we see the moment she rushed past a White Walker.
-Wight Karsi would have been cool, but not necessary. I would have preferred Wight Hodor.
-Agree on the Jaime and Euron fight
-Was never interested in that joke.
– Euron hitting an injured dragon who wasn’t aware of him was more believable than Bronn hitting a thin stream of Wildfire in the dark.
-Drogon melted his mom’s obsession, which led to her death.
And here we go again…
Ten Bears,
Thankfully, absolutely zero painful memories for me. S8 and entire series alike. I really have absolutely zero issues with the stuff you listed. THe lowest this TV show got for me was way back in S1 with the brothel scene in episode 7 and there may be some other mainly-brothel scenes that I feel I could do without but it ends there. Entertainment wise, my low points are episode 3 and episode 18 compared to the rest of the TV series and even when it comes to these two, I look forward to watching them… the only TV show I watched so far where there’s no episode I wouldn’t enjoy in some way.
Nicely said. I personally treat S7/S8 as one 13-episode long season though and I think the plot flows nicer that way. My favorite season is S6, very closely followed by S4. Then S7/S8, S5, S3, S1, with S2 at the lowest spot (even though I still very much love it). I often hear that Ned’s death was the moment that deconstructed the fantasy genre in GoT but as I said several times before, I feel S7/S8 deconstructed it again… this time when it came to main characters themselves, forcing us to see these people are not fantasy heroes who will emerge in heroic light and live happily ever after, but in fact very messed up people who experienced a lot of TRAUMA through the story, way more than they “should” and that they’ll likely never be fully okay again. And I think for such dark and traumatic story, we got quite a peaceful ending.
Here, here! Well put and an amen with that! 👍👍✌️
Shy Lady Dragon,
(Continued from 11:59 am)
re: Elementary S4e7, “Miss Taken” aired 1/7/2016
Starring Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock Holmes
Guest Stars: Kathryn Erbe and Raphael Sbarge as parents of kidnapped daughter, Mina;
Ally Ioannides as “Mina.”
• Here’s my relatively spoiler-free synopsis of the premise of the episode…
It starts as an investigation of the murder of a recently retired FBI agent, who’d been reviewing the files of his old unsolved cases – including the kidnapping of a little girl ten years earlier who’d recently escaped from her abductor and returned home.
Sherlock Holmes and his NYPD colleagues visit the girl’s home to interview her parents, and the girl herself comes downstairs.
Holmes concludes she’s an imposter – based on dissimilarities in the shape of her ears when compared with a pre-kidnapping photograph of the girl.
Later, after listening to the girl recount for him her harrowing story of captivity and escape, Holmes tells her: “You are one of the best liars I have ever met, and that’s saying something.”
The girl’s parents remain convinced she’s their long-lost daughter, so Holmes and his colleagues arrange for DNA testing of the girl’s father to confirm the imposter theory.
To their surprise, the DNA tests confirm a familial match with hair samples collected from the scene where the girl was found after escaping her kidnapper.
• Here’s the 30-second promo for the episode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q53Fd7XTvc
This snippet in the last few seconds was reminiscent of the Game of Faces…
“You think you can lie your way out?”
“I do. Now tell me, am I lying?”
Sorry. It’s my fault, isn’t it. 🤥
Oh, it’s not like I can throw stones! (Especially considering the KotV conundrum debates I’ve lit a match on…) I find it doesn’t take much to cycle into the identical season 8 fights that have occurred more than a few times with the same points being traded back and forth (my own points included). At this point, HotD news and other new material can’t come soon enough *_* Even an announcement that GRRM loves Broadway so much, watch TWOW in 1000 plays! Harrenhal the Musical! Howland Reed singing, “Someday My Prince Will Come” as he’s bullied before being rescued by a certain Knight of the Laughing Tree! 😉
Ten Bears,
It really is reminiscent! Seems like an interesting episode, but I’ll wait patiently till its time comes…
Adrianacandle,
”…At this point, HotD news and other new material can’t come soon enough *_* Even an announcement that GRRM loves Broadway so much, watch TWOW in 1000 plays! Harrenhal the Musical! Howland Reed singing, “Someday My Prince Will Come” as he’s bullied before being rescued by a certain Knight of the Laughing Tree! 😉”
Thanks. I’m going to try to resist getting into any further debates about the pros and cons of GoT S7-S8.
GoT on Broadway? Now that’s a fun topic! And until there’s HotD news, I’m going to continue treating the Jojen & Arya on the King’s Road series being filmed in London (“Pistol”) as a GoT sequel.
P.S. Wasn’t HotD supposed to begin filming this month? I’ll have to check. At least they could release some promo shots of Princess Rhaenyra and Queen Alicent in costume to keep us content for the time being…
PPS Here is a fan-made Olivia Cooke as Queen Alicent image that isn’t bad…
https://i.redd.it/3i20dkmmb5661.jpg
Me too! I’ll also do my best to avoid certain overdone debates, like the one I’m guilty of sparking in the Olivia Cooke thread -_- On Wikipedia, there’s a term for this…
I’m coming kind of around to the idea of GoT on Broadway, in musical format too XD; I think some fun could be done with that, especially the songs. I wouldn’t be surprised if GRRM found himself drawn to composing… rather than working on a certain book 😉 [sob] The next book may be the Ballads of ASOIAF… with a few hidden clues here and there that theory factories can parse over for the next 20 or so years.
I also like the idea of Jojen and Arya in more modern-day London!
As for HotD, I think so. Later this month, I believe? Once it starts rolling, I imagine we’ll be getting some promo shots then. I’m curious about Emma D’Arcy as Rhaenyra but I love the look of Olivia Cooke’s Alicent in that fan made manip 🙂
I commend your patience.
By the way, here’s another bit of dialogue from Elementary that could’ve come straight out of The House of Black & White first semester textbook:
“The best liars often make the best lie detectors.”
Adrianacandle,
“I’ll also do my best to avoid certain overdone debates, like the one I’m guilty of sparking in the Olivia Cooke thread -_- On Wikipedia, there’s a term for this… [link omitted]”
I like it. I think we should adopt that term from the Wikipedia essay as a go-to reply comment to dredged-up debates:
“At this point you should drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass.”
I’ll add my vote for that too!
“Just drop the stick. Let the poor animal rest in peace.”
(Incidentally, in the Wikipedia ANI and arb cases I’ve participated in, “drop the stick” is not an uncommon mantra and is a nice alternative to telling somebody to let an issue come to rest.)
oierem,
I think GOT was the fist fantasy put on screen to that took are hard look at what would it actually look like if fire breathing dragons were unleashed. I always say the Bells feels like a giant middle finger to blockbusters like the MCU where countless building collapse and big giant bloodless fights. GOT basically said this it what it would really look like are you sure this is what you want.
Ten Bears,
The video with the young, gifted actress is barred in my country, TB. I recognised the name Katherine Erbe though – she was in Law & Order, Criminal Intent. Another good actress.
Dame of Mercia,
The video from “Elementary” S4e7 was only a 30-second promo anyway. (There used to be a few episode clips on YouTube but they got taken down.)
Fireblood87,
Yeah, good point. Buildings collapsing and sh*t exploding looks really cool from up in the air or far away, but for people on the ground it’s not much fun.
I think the showrunners explained that that’s why they had continuous tracking shots of Arya running through Dany’s Inferno: to show the horror from the perspective of the terrified innocent people who got burned alive and vaporized.
Dame of Mercia,
Musical Interlude
for Jaime & Cersei
🎶 ”Whatever we deny or embrace,
for worse or for better We belong, we belong, we belong together.”
• “We Belong” (1984) Pat Benatar (audio)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1VMuTpnzF4
• “We Belong” Pat Benatar live 2001
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oirmYkr-4q8
……
Adrianacandle,
I’m coming kind of around to the idea of GoT on Broadway, in musical format too XD; I think some fun could be done with that, especially the songs. I wouldn’t be surprised if GRRM found himself drawn to composing… rather than working on a certain book 😉 [sob]“
I think you’re more likely to see dancing direwolves and singing wights on stage than “a certain book” on your shelf.
I Want to Believe.
https://i.imgur.com/zGcFTuZ.jpeg
Well, FUCK ME!! After mothereffing Cindy Lauper and mothereffing Toni Basil, we´ ve finally arrived at mothereffing Pat Benatar. Now all we need is Laura Brannigan and the 4 Riders of Irrelevant 80s Popschlock will be complete.
BARF!!!
Get some taste!
flintstonewielder,
An emetic for you then, Lord Barfmaster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP0_8J7uxhs
Oh, and Cyndi, not “Cindy” Lauper.
You did that on purpose didn’t you Ten Bears? That’s got to be one of PB’s worst (to me) songs together with ‘Love in a Cattlefield’ as I used to call it.
flintstonewielder,
Cyndi Lauper has a decent voice and Toni Basil I admire more for her dancing than her singing. There’s a lot about 80s music I dislike (I was probably too old for pop music by then). I know I’m in a minority but I was never really a fan of Whitney Houston – good voice but I wasn’t struck on the soppy songs she sang. She died too young which was very sad though.
Let’s get the thread back on track with a Game of Thrones related song. This is ‘Talia’s Song’ from the telltale GoT game. I can’t find the name of the singer unfortunately. https://youtu.be/_-aETXtqOvc
A bit harsh, but I can’t disagree with the sentiment. The musical interludes have been somewhat vomit-inducing.
Indeed. I sort of get it because there isn’t much left to discuss on a Game of Thrones website at this point, but it’s usually the same posters regurgitating the same arguments over and over again. You know what’s coming before it even happens. All you have to do is see their name and you know what exactly you’re in for.
They even discuss the same points in the exact same way as if we haven’t seen the same exact statements from the same exact people over and over and over and over again. It’s like Groundhog Day.
The challenge is coming up with something GoT-related to talk about when GoT is over and the cash cow (I mean HOTD) is still a long ways away.
Adrianacandle,
I will say it’s a testament to GoT’s popularity and impact on pop culture that we are still talking about the ending 2 years later.
HBO had a season 1 marathon this past weekend. It was the first time in two years that I watched GoT. I have to admit I’m personally still annoyed by the ending and it greatly affected my enjoyment in watching season 1, but I made peace with my disappointment with the ending a while ago and I can still discuss any aspect of the show regardless of my feelings on the ending.
*EDIT* Check that. I can discuss any part of GoT without emotion except for the Dragonpit scene in the last episode. That is probably the one scene that will piss me off in perpetuity.
I just watched that Ice Bucket Challenge video of Natalie Dormer and Katie McGrath (from 2014?) posted by Dame of Mercia.
– Wasn’t Katie McGrath a popular fancasting choice for Lyanna Stark?
– Good spot: Natalie Dormer’s shout out to her Elementary co-stars Jonny Lee Miller, Lucy Liu, and Ophelia Lovibond.
Mr Derp,
Yeah and you’re right about it being a testament to GoT. Though, it’s just like you said (and I agree about) the same points being traded back and forth in these fights (it is a lot like Groundhog’s Day), people not budging from their positions, being able to anticipate points since they’ve already been made in identical discussions, and beating a very, very dead horse with no new ground being made (and I can’t say I’m an exception that that at all but now, I try to treat carefully so as not to avoid one of these tired debates). And often, it’s not really on the fun side but something that seems to be frustrating and exhausting.
As for new GoT-related stuff, I think HotD is set to start production this month? 🙂 So I’m hopeful production shots start to slowly leak out and those story details can be discussed (there’s a poster around, Max, who seems to be an HoTD expert already). I think ASOIAF, as stalled as it is, has quite a few mysteries which still need unraveling (10+ years on, this hasn’t stopped theory crafters, who just keep churning them out and they keep getting more and more insane ;D) Dunk & Egg is still a fairly new topic around here and I think that’s in development. The stuff GRRM insists on working on while he procrastinates on TWOW (10 years and counting) like his Harrenhal Broadway Play (although I do remember you know being a fan of an ASOIAF musical). Yes, we’ve reached a kind-of lull, which I think at this point is natural and you’re right, but I think there is still some non-s8 stuff to discuss, especially in regard to the new endless prequels being put out there!
But that’s just me 🙂
Mr Derp,
”Check that. I can discuss any part of GoT without emotion except for the Dragonpit scene in the last episode. That is probably the one scene that will piss me off in perpetuity.”
Ditto.
Typo!
*and I can’t say I’m an exception *to that at all but now, I try to tread carefully so as not to[…]
*(although I do remember you not being a fan of an ASOIAF musical).
I’m on benzos. I forget English. That’s my excuse this time 🙂
I think so but I remember her most in this regard as being fancast as the mysterious Ashara Dayne of mysterious House Dayne with all their secrets 🙂
I am not sure what this means, but it looks cool: An announcement from H&M Global Sustainability Ambassador Maisie Williams. (Kind of looks like a mashup of Jodie Foster in “Contact” and Mila Kunis in “Jupiter Ascending.”)
Typo2:
*and I can’t say I’m an exception *to that at all but now, I try to tread carefully so as to avoid[…]
*but I think there is still some non-s8 *fight stuff to discuss, especially in regard to the new endless prequels being put out there!
I’m blaming it on the benzos. And again, YMMV 🙂
Wait wait, not the Mariah Carey/Whitney Houston Prince of Egypt “There Can be Miracles… When You Believe” musical interlude I posted! 😉
(I admit, I didn’t think that would be a popular choice but damn, I do still want to believe in TWOW so I get that miracle, even if I feel TWOW can be likened to a UFO at this point)
Mr Derp,
”The challenge is coming up with something GoT-related to talk about when GoT is over and the cash cow (I mean HOTD) is still a long ways away.”
I thought at some point there was going to be voting on WotW Awards for all 73 episodes, e.g., Best Overall Episode*, Best Quote, Best Guest Actress, Best Guest Actor, Best Fight, Best Battle, Best Speech, Best Costume, and so on. I would even suggest additional categories such as each character’s best scene; each character’s best quote and best speech; best cinematography; best animal actor; best show-only material; best stunt work; best books-to-show casting; etc.
I would not mind discussing fans’ nominees.
Ten Bears,
I was going to ask you whether you had seen this. You remain the number one Arya fan in our collective subconsciousness 🙂
Ten Bears,
LOL. That was a freaking recycling commercial?
“Hey, we’re here to lecture you on recycling and re-using things by making a very expensive and futuristic-looking commercial!
If only you believe in miracles, so would I.
Lol. Musical tastes vary wildly.
To me, Whitney and Mariah had/have amazing voices, but…I dunno. I always thought their singing was more about impressing everyone with their vocal range rather than just singing an enjoyable tune.
I actually think you’re right that it did kind of become about that — vocalizing and in some cases, kind of overdoing it, to show off what they can do instead of it being about the song itself.
Although, I admit, I do have a few Whitney Houston songs that I love, older ones.
I think of Julie Andrews. Definitely a tame choice but she had an incredible range and ability. I never found her to overdo anything when she sang — she seemed to sing for the song, not to show off her four (or six?) octave range.
Maybe we should nominate our favorite WOTW conversations over the last year.
…and the award for bringing up being a moderator on a “Lost” website from a decade ago the most goes to…
…and the lifetime achievement award for biggest Arya fan goes to…
…and the award for most sycophantic poster towards D&D goes to…
…and the award for whinging about the musical interludes the most goes to…
Adrianacandle,
”I think of Julie Andrews. Definitely a tame choice but she had an incredible range and ability. I never found her to overdo anything when she sang — she seemed to sing for the song, not to show off her four (or six?) octave range.”
Speaking of Broadway musicals made into films…I have to confess that I used to think “The Sound of Music” was cheesy, but I’ve come to adore it – especially Julie Andrews singing.
I get there is definitely a cheese factor but I quite enjoy it too — for Julie Andrews’ singing, the songs, and choreography.
And to fangirl Julie Andrews a bit, her special with Carol Burnett:
Her singing is just so effortless. Like she opens her mouth and… magic.
Mr Derp,
…and the lifetime achievement award for biggest Arya fan goes to…
(*Accepts Golden Lommy statuette*)
“Oh, thank you so much! I’m honored. I want to thank the other nominees in my category – you truly inspired me. I’d also like to thank my agent; my attorney; and my wonderful family for putting up with my juvenile fanboying. I also want to thank Meryn F*cking Trant, Polliver, Walder Frey, Rorge, Black Walder and Lothar, that nameless Frey doofus at the campfire, and of course Sandor Clegane. And last but not least I want to thank that little girl without whom I would not be here today. I would not have watched Game of Thrones if she hadn’t zinged the arrow into the bullseye when I was seconds away from clicking off the remote a few minutes into the first episode.
And I also have to thank all of my fellow commenters who…
(*Orchestra begins playing; TB ushered off the stage*)
Mr Derp,
“Lol. Musical tastes vary wildly.
To me, Whitney and Mariah had/have amazing voices, but…I dunno. I always thought their singing was more about impressing everyone with their vocal range rather than just singing an enjoyable tune.”
Stay tuned for a singer-comedienne with an amazing voice who could impress with her vocal range and sing an enjoyable tune – in between cracking up the audience.
Adrianacandle,
There’s a comment of mine from this morning where I had a bit of a whinge about Whitney Houston (re her choice of material) but that’s still in moderation. There were other matters touched on in my suspended post.
Anyway, a GoT musical episode – a singing YouTuber who is somewhat popular, Peter Hollens with a version of ‘Reynes of Castamere’. https://youtu.be/3sL-1z167Bc
Adrianacandle,
”I think of Julie Andrews. Definitely a tame choice but she had an incredible range and ability. I never found her to overdo anything when she sang — she seemed to sing for the song, not to show off her four (or six?) octave range.”
(Part 1 of 2)
Although this may be an unpopular choice – no bashing please – I think of…
Anne Hathaway (who’s got several “Six Degrees of Julie Andrews” connections, in addition to grandmother-granddaughter in “The Princess Diaries”*). I’ve always thought she’s really a really talented singer-actress. Here are two examples:
• Anne Hathaway in comedy/fantasy “Ella Enchanted” (2004) singing Queen’s “Somebody to Love”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN8hW7AeoQI
• Anne Hathaway in dramatic musical “Les Miserable” (2012) singing “I Dreamed a Dream”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulJXiB5i_q0
* See part 2 to follow
I think your musical interlude privileges need to be taken away.
Dame of Mercia,
Thanks for the link!
I don’t have any great attachment to Whitney Houston but I do think she’s a good singer and I enjoy some of her songs, part of the reason for which is nostalgia because I grew up with them listening to them in long car rides (like that song I posted here — and I did really enjoy Prince of Egypt). Anyway, I’ll keep an eye out for that post when it’s released!
Thanks for this! I’ve always enjoyed this piece!
Part 2 of 2 (cont. from 12:33 pm)
• Anne Hathaway: 2013 Oscar for Best Supporting Actress, presented by Christopher Plummer (Julie Andrews’s co-star in “The Sound of Music)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_b5xav1jls
• Anne Hathaway on Saturday Night Live, channeling Julie Andrews as Mary Poppins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eBG8JIGugw
I could envision someone with her range playing Lyanna Stark in “Harrenhal: The Musical.”
I agree with you about Anne Hathaway’s singing talent. I’ve always thought the same. I know some regard her as annoying but I’ve liked her in some roles and I think she’s got singing ability.
Oh, me too!
Mr Derp,
P.S. Anne Hathaway was not who I had in mind when I wrote:
“Stay tuned for a singer-comedienne with an amazing voice who could impress with her vocal range and sing an enjoyable tune – in between cracking up the audience.”
I’ll try to find clips of that singer-comedienne to post later on today or tonight.
Hey, if you’re refering to me (which I’m sure you are), October 19th 2016 till January 23rd 2020 isn’t a decade ago. And if the show ended airing over a decade ago, it doesn’t mean this community originated from its time too… in fact, it was created from scratch in July 2015. And yes, I love mentioning it because it had a huge impact on my life during those years, by far the most beautiful thing coming out of it being becoming best friends and eventually falling in love with fello group member, co-admin and now my girlfriend Jovana. And especially that I was finally proven wrong with “NEVER make friends with people online that you don’t know in real life” bullsh*t they fed us in highschool.
Erik, formerly Lord Parramandas,
Just having a little fun. I would win the “whinging about musical interludes” category.
Adrianacandle,
I started watching the Carol Burnett-Julie Andrews medley you posted. I’ll finish later. I just wanted to point out that Julie Andrews always seems to have perfect diction, whether speaking or singing. For some reason that seems to be a lost art these days.
Erik, formerly Lord Parramandas,
Erik – My Lord – can I ask you a (serious) question, since you might know the answer?
Have you heard anything about a “Lost” sequel (described as or titled “Lost: The Next Generation”)? I thought I had read reports that the young actress I liked in “Elementary,” Ally Ioannides, was supposed to be in it – but all online references to this supposed sequel seem to have evaporated. Perhaps it was a hoax?
That was my exact thought! Even when she’s just speaking, it just sounds…. lovely. Lyrical. What a great voice.
I had those lectures in school too! These online friends were the reason I traveled the US in visiting them 🙂
I don’t know, Mr. D. You might face some stiff competition from the commenter upthread at 2:01 am.
Adrianacandle,
Deliciously vintage! I remember how much I loved My Fair Lady and The Sound of Music when I was a child, even then they belonged to another time…
Very true! They do look to be from another era, especially MFL with its overture and intermission <3
Dame of Mercia,
That was really something, thanks for the link!
What I find more impressive (and I liked it better) was the metal version, the song has the needed intensity. There are several metal versions, I have found.
Ten Bears,
I’ve been out of our LOST community for over a year now so I’m not fully on track what’s happening in LOST world but from what I know, there’s no sequel planned… I remember some rumors circulating around but I think Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse shut those rumors down. In fact, I’m glad if there’s indeed no sequel planned… “The End” is one of a kind episode for me and I can’t capture in words what emotional impact that episode has on me. I feel anything happening post-it would just lessen this impact.
On a side note, here are three LOST tribute videos (that include my amateur piano playing) I made back in 2017 – the year that I like to label as “the golden era” of our LOST community. They’re a bit clunky though as it was my first time creating tribute videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=627syRN3X7Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHXBpDJyd3A
Well, if I followed those lectures, I would never meet my girlfriend. After a year and a half of online talking, it took me a trip to Bosnia to meet her in person and there was no awkwardness at all… it was like meeting a very dear friend who I already knew. And it was this meeting that made both of us sure that there’s more than friendship between us… a few weeks later, we confessed feelings to each other after being in denial for months. Not to mention several other amazing people who I got to know mainly through that LOST community and with whom I’m still in firm contact…. people who actually supported me and stood by my side during the harder moments in my life when people from my “real” life didn’t, despite not knowing me in person. I may know some more than the others but I have this firm idea that they’re all people and not just words on screen.
Erik, formerly Lord Parramandas,
Thanks. I’ll watch your videos, though to be honest I haven’t seen any episodes of “Lost” after reading that lots of its fans – including GRRM – were whinging about its ending.
Mr Derp,
”I think your musical interlude privileges need to be taken away.”
So as not to offend, from now on I’ll either cover them in spoiler coding with a caution ⚠️ symbol, or put them in older posts’ comment sections.
Having said that, I’m always interested in listening to songs recommended by other commenters – whether the lyrics apply to GoT or not.
Got anything you like that you want to share?
In all fairness, HBO shares the blame for provoking us to beat dead horses again by resurrecting them. (See post title, “HBO releases ‘new’ Season 8 trailer for Game of Thrones”)
Erik, formerly Lord Parramandas,
Thanks for sharing 🙂
Ten Bears,
I remember watching Lost back in the day too. I only remember fragments of the final seasons at best because I was all but a zombie with my studies and was only a casual viewer. I also started fairly late in the game and binged it as I worked feverishly on projects.
I think it’s more an analogy that HBO/this article is reminding us of the dead horse 😉
Erik, formerly Lord Parramandas,
To be fair the warnings about befriending people online might be for kids who might be in danger of grooming from undesirable types. There was a case (some years ago) where a teenage girl in England was murdered by an online groomer she thought was a ‘boyfriend’. Using a certain amount of common sense in these situations is sensible I guess.
Adrianacandle,
”I think it’s more an analogy that HBO/this article is reminding us of the dead horse 😉”
Well, maybe we can agree that it’s long past time that the dead horse was shipped off to the glue factory.
I’m sure when HotD production news and photos start coming out (in the near future?), we can all don our tinfoil hats and speculate away.
Adrianacandle,
Re: Staying up all through the night:
Tell me…Your Terrible, Terrible Shake [recipe above]… Does it work? Did it keep you awake before it got you sick?
Asking for a friend.
Here’s a musical interlude. I first saw Alicia Keys in concert when she was only eighteen years old. She only had material from the first album she had just released and in-order to cover the length of the concert she played a medley of classical misic for about 10-15 and blew me and the audience away. Needless to say, I have been a fan ever since (people actually don’t know that she is a classically trained pianist). I have a lot of respect for her talent and abilities as a musician and singer/songwriter.
Yes, that’s true too.
Ten Bears,
Yes, I agree.
Yes! I am curious about seeing the actors in their Planeteos garb!
🕯️🕯️🕯️{/spoiler]
Ten Bears,
Re: Staying up all through the night:
I didn’t get much of a chance to try it out, maybe a measly hour, before I was flat on my back and in indescribable pain, vomiting! 96 hours straight followed by an hellishly feverish period where I could barely move.
I did leave out a detail in my first post and it was one I hadn’t known about until several years later when I went to the ER in Toronto. At the time, I had an inflamed gallbladder that was blocked. For years, since I was 17 with a fairly slim figure of 115lbs at 5’6, I’d have something — including snowpeas, my mum’s 90 calorie pizza, McDonald’s — and an hour later, I’d feel like dying.
I kept visiting the ER time and time again because I think the best description for this kind of pain would be beyond pain. No relief. No relenting. Just pain. Entire world was pain. It felt like I was dying. ER doctors were all, “Oh, are you sure you’re not pregnant? Let’s give you a pregnancy test! Maybe you’re lactose intolerant. Just avoid certain foods, okay?” The problem was, I didn’t know what foods were triggers and I feared and ended up avoiding everything, which — alongside a good bout of typical anorexia which was catching fire in my friend group — ground my metabolism to a screeching halt. Some things triggered it, some things didn’t. That terrible, terrible shake definitely did and that was probably the longest sessions of Pain Town I’ve ever had.
Oddly enough, none of these doctors thought to investigate the issue or even do an ultrasound until one day at York, this happened again and I called 9-11 as I didn’t know what else to do. It felt like everything inside my body — my entire torso front to back — was corroding in the worst acid. That’s when they did an ultrasound and said, “Well, your gallbladder’s about to burst. Time to take it out.” And I’ve never had that pain since 🙂 The surgery happened at an incredibly inconvenient time, though, because it was in the middle of my grad studies and I had to live at my classmate’s parent’s house for a week during the recovery period.
However, I’ve found that Red Bull, sugar, caffeine kicks have never done much to stave off the need for sleep. Pure anxiety, fear, panic, and adrenaline have though! I’m fear motivated 😉
That’s really cool!! So, I’m guessing you posted this video somewhere already, so sorry if this is an unoriginal idea… With all the talk about dead horses and #ARLTA, I thought of this song to add to your interludes. Feel free to scold me if you already posted this somewhere!
Some of the videos show Arya slicing the flame off the candle at different angles and one is close up….
“Ask me again in 10 years” – 10 year anniversary
Adrianacandle,
I am so sorry for your pains! I do hope that after your operation your health improved a lot!
I mean her name is “Keys”, so that should give it away, but I agree she is very talented.
Yes, totally agree it’s all about common sense.
Like anything, there’s good and bad aspects of befriending people online.
Erik met his girlfriend online, so that’s a positive example, but, as he’s also said himself many times, there’s a lot of negativity online too. It’s a perfect place for creepy people to be creepy in anonymity behind the safety of their computer screen.
Kids absolutely should be taught about the dangers of being online. It would be pretty irresponsible not to.
Thanks and it did!!
Yes, but I believe young people should be taught about pros and cons of online contacts, about potential risks, not being forced with the idea that any form of online friendship should be an absolute no-go. In our 2nd year of highschool, we literally had an exam about not forming online contacts… you didn’t go along with the teachers’ idea that ANY form of online friendship should be forbidden, you got a negative grade and would need to repeat it. That test included that under NO circumstances, you should meet with someone you got to know online first, under NO circumstances you should share your real name and it was also negative-only about social networks, obviously trying to turn young people off social networks. They only educated us about the bad, about the worst possible outcomes, while pretending nothing good exists about online contacts. And we had to take this test at the age of 16/17… these were no early teen years. THis was no genuine education in my eyes, this was forcing an idea down someone’s throats and trying to literally frighten people to not make online contacts. For me, that’s identical to teaching people not to drive cars because there exists a possibility of a car accident. Now when I look back, the test we had to take feels like an insult to me and I feel awful with myself that I circled the demanded answers for the sake of good grade.
Monica, Meg, Jacki, Kathy, Cindy, Stephanie, Maja, Thelma, Brenda, Stacey, Adina, Ryan, Laila, Jillian, Amber, Courtney, Elina, Michela, Ben, Raivich, Irene, Yasmine, Avery, Ramona, Jonah, Laura, Danielle, Kimberly, Ellie, Irish, Terri, Tawny, Carla, Ege, Daiana, Jericho, Vera, Michael, Sheila, Kiera, Olivia, Florida, Ilkin, Jody, Alexander, Jordan, Mary Anna, Boguslawa, Enrico and of course my girlfriend Jovana… these 50 people would never exist in my life if I followed what the teachers forced us . Admittedly, I know some of them better or for longer than the others but all 50 are people in my life, not just words on screen.
Tron79,
No, I had not posted a musical interlude with “Horse with No Name.”
But after the recent dead horse subthread and your post, I did start thinking of other similarly themed or titled songs. Nothing so far about dead horses or beating them.
Musical interlude…not related to any theme. Something new. The only relation to GOT…as far as I can see are the wolves in the video…LOL…
There is a Guns and Roses song Dead Horse I was thinking about posting, but I would rather find a song I really like more. I’m not exactly psyched about the season 8 promos. I’ve also turned off alot of Olivia Clarke’s movies lately, so I’m a bit bummed. There is a CW series called Kung Fu that made me think of Arya’s possible spinoff where she goes on adventures coming to the rescue of whoever is in need that week. The CW series is not good, but still a little entertaining. The script sucks and the dialogue was written just to get it done. Please let them make Adventures of Nymeria with Maisie as the star. It’s such a natural, and maybe she would be willing now that she’s had a little break.
Tron79,
Instead of dead horses songs, I’ve been trying to think of songs that could be adapted for the singing and dancing wights and direwolves of an imaginary GoT Broadway musical.
I posted two in the comments section of the GoT Broadway Musical post (the one with a picture of Young Ned at the top).
Tron79,
Avatar Maisie? Life-Like Digital Twin?
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/h-m-game-of-thrones-maisie-williams-sustainability-b1830483.html
Fireblood87,
Dany’s ending is probably one of the bravest twists in the history of television. She was one of the most popular characters in pop culture and to give her an ending like that, where she dies after failing to resist her worst impulses if very brave.
Like mothers named their daughters Deanerys lol
Putting the audience in the role of the accomplice of the biggest crime in the story felt like an appropriate ending for a story like this.
Erik, formerly Lord Parramandas,
Well at least you didn’t turn every comment section into your personal chat. Shame we don’t have blocking option here. So much spam.
mau,
In the absence of a working forum, off-topic chats can happen on boards like this when commenters get to know each other and have talked for some time. Because I know my off-topic commentary may not be of general interest, I put any such comments under spoiler codes with that express purpose so others can scroll over them without having to see the content. Personally, I felt that was a pretty good compromise.
With GoT having been over for two years, the same debates being recycled over and over with nobody moving from their position, waiting on prequel information like HotD (which I’m pretty excited for), while GRRM is taking his sweet sweet time with his attention now being diverted to Broadway (sigh — although, I am curious), I think we’ve reached a pretty natural lull in discussion topics in the absence of new material.
mau,
Ouch! Some while back I attempted to open threads on the forum but although I signed in there was a glitch saying I couldn’t post without signing in (even though I had signed in). I tried to report it to the people running the site but I don’t know if it went through. As Adriana says in the absence of the forums functioning properly the main site is the only place where things can be discussed including those that do not directly relate to a thread. I suppose I can try putting spoilers if I discuss anything that is perhaps only tangentially to a thread. I’ve had mixed luck with spoilers and don’t know why I can sometimes get it to work and sometimes I flunk at it.
Dame of Mercia,
If you copy and paste this as a template, spoiler coding should work everytime! 🙂
Adrianacandle,
OK I’ll try that.
She looks really cool in that ad. I’ve never played Animal Crossings. Evidently Maisie is an avatar you can use in that game (if I understand correctly). I’m more in the Frogger generation 🙂
mau,
But I am not surprised she ended up the way she did. The signs were there peppered throughout the preceding seasons. I think that given the times we live in, some just can’t come to grips with the way she (Dany) ended up and can’t accept it. Same with the ending of Jamie and Cersei…some expected something more dramatic than ending up under a pile of rubble. And this is why I think soo many hate Season 7 and Eight, especially the ending. The show gave us the ending that made the most sense within the tone and context of what came before…instead of the feel-good-ending we all expected or felt we deserved (add to that Jon being THE hero of the battle with the Others).
“Every time a new Targaryen is born, he said, the gods toss the coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land.”
“If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”
I mean these not so subtle hints (and others) were always there, but many just chose to outright ignore all that. Then when that expected ending didn’t materialize…the salt started flowing in over abundance. I wish as many people signed a petition that actually mattered as did the GOT, “wah, wah, wah me no likeee” one. But hey…to each his own.
This is one of the many reasons why I liked how GOT ended and that D&D didn’t go the way of the formulaic “Hollywood happy ending”. Anybody who has suffered through or survived trauma of any kind is disabused of the notion of there ever being a clear-cut happy ending or even an ending at all.
Also let’s not forget the “Ask me again in then years.” hint from Tyrion to Jon ( hmmmm, maybe, just maybe…a continuation of sorts).
Had THE GRRM, provided us with the last two novels in the ASOIF saga and therefore given us a definitive ending and had D&D chosen to wilfully ignore it…then yes, the whole “I need a safe space to protect me from the micro-aggression that was GOT’s ending” would have more merit.
So that’s that…ta…
loco73,
I don’t know, I don’t think this was a hint at a continuation, which I think would be difficult for a few reasons. First, as I’ve discussed before, IP and copyright. I don’t think GRRM has signed over the characters of ASOIAF in perpetuity, just the events of ASOIAF — which he has yet to finish (and won’t be finishing anytime soon, particularly judging from yesterday’s blog post). GRRM has stated he’s not a fan of original material being based on his characters (he made this comment about fanfic, not D&D — just to clarify!) so I don’t think he’d be down for a continuation — unless it was based on how he wants things to go fo his characters (if he wants any post-ASOIAF story). GRRM fully believed he’d be done the series by the time D&D caught up to book 5.
Another reason is the actors. Multiple actors have expressed the desire to move on, to explore different genres, characters, etc. especially after spending 10 intense years in this world and living and breathing these characters. They’re all also pretty financially comfortable right now and they are getting roles.
I think, now, GRRM is interested in prequel material — stories he has fully realized and figured out and HBO seems to be interested in that too so their interests kind of align like that.
Perhaps, if GRRM ever gets ASOIAF finished, there might be an animated adaptation.
Who knows, now it’s entirely too early to think about anything as a direct sequel to GOT (doesn’t have to be a full series, it can be a miniseries or a movie like it was with “Deadwood”). The passage of time may change things. Years down the line the situation may be different. “Ask me again in ten years…” 🤓
Well, it may be a fool’s hope but I hope we have TWOW by then…. (10 years, I know, big ask… ;D but I do really really feel for his losses this past year, there have been so many) Yet, even with the passage of time, I think the above obstacles have a good chance of remaining, especially when it comes to GRRM. From his interviews, I’d think GRRM would want creative control over anything post-GoT, if there is a post-GoT/ASOIAF. I’d imagine that would come with finishing ASOIAF first and… well….
I think there’s a reason GRRM is so prequel-focused — this is only speculation but it seems he actually has that stuff figured out (ie. getting from point A to point B to point C in whatever rough plans he has for his stories) and I wonder if that’s why his energies have been spent on these histories.
It might also be that writing plot is a lot easier than writing stories! The big failing of the conclusion of the show was that story & plot became very uncoupled: and that probably has a lot to do with why we’ve never seen the last two books. Prequels tend to be very plot-heavy and very story-light, so it would be less of an issue.
Wimsey,
I’ve always thought GRRM threw so much in the air, maybe too much, that he stalled in trying to tie everything together into a cohesive narrative. I think it can be done but the pressure, the sheer amount of what needs to be done, combined with his own descriptions of his writing process (sounding pretty close to perfectionism) must make it quite paralysing. Had he plotted his details all the way through, I think he’d be in a better place but of course, he’s described himself as not being able to work that way and I don’t think one’s way of working (or inspiring the muse) can be forced.
But yes, with the prequels (barring Dunk & Egg), it’s written very dryly, like a history text.
loco73,
Let GoT rest in peace. Every time it comes back, it’s a bit less. Pieces get chipped away.
Mr Derp,
Well that’s the Lord Of Light’s doing not mine. Actually for me it’s a bit more everytime it comes back. Pieces keep getting added on. A reminder of how good the show was and what a great journey it was to be along for.
The big failing of the conclusion…is for you perhaps. You don’t speak for me…just like I can only speak for myself in the fact that I liked it and it made sense to me…🤨😜
loco73,
Except you’re not “speaking only for yourself” as your previous comments have made abundantly clear.
You’re passive-aggressively trying to start another fight over what people thought of season 8. Some people liked it, some people hated it, and everything in between. Let it go already.
Some of the new Game of Thrones trailers posted on Youtube could show foreshadows…
Adrianacandle,
The difference is this: Even when the franchise is “in-between shows/movies” (and GoT/ASOIAF is not the only world-famous franchise to currently be in this situation), such tangents elsewhere tend to be relatively brief and infrequent, and the commenters involved do not keep hijacking & derailing discussion threads under multiple articles by treating fansites like their personal Facebook page. If this is not the case, and such incidents repeatedly involve the same people, moderators on most other major fansites quickly issue warnings and, if necessary, bannings.
Also, people who behave this way on fansites are usually unable to communicate with each other directly via email — unlike you and Ten Bears, as you’ve repeatedly indicated.
Jai,
I apologize for offending you if I have. It’s not my intention to hijack threads/to derail/or to treat this as my own personal Facebook page. On WotW, I strive to tread pretty carefully and definitely pull my punches in consideration of how opposing viewpoints may feel. I read each and every comment and reply to the ones I feel compelled to. Sometimes, I admit, those do lead into some off-topic tangents that I hide under spoiler code for those not interested. I truly don’t come to WotW with the intent to engage in personal conversation and I do make on-topic conversation. There are some topics I make a deliberate effort to avoid though because I find such debates exhausting. And sometimes, my own off-topic commentary arises based on what’s being discussed (ie. Broadway due to GRRM’s new stage endeavors, which can lead into a tangent).
I have tried to limit my own off-topic commentary and to ensure I hide it under spoiler code for those who aren’t interested in seeing it in deference to these wishes. As stated, another problem is we’re kind in a lull without new material to discuss while oft-repeated debates that have been going on for 2-5 years tend to spark frustration and negativity with no progress being made. However since my off-topic conversation seems to be frustrating and unwelcome by some, I will likewise try further to limit it.
As for email, I think there are some difficulties there: with some, these are emails not frequently used by some commenters and must be alerted to check them. Others have expressed to me that they are not comfortable communicating privately via email.
Jai,
To be fair, they did try to transfer this to the Forum area, but it never works.
They also haven’t been given any warnings by the people who actually own this site. Their house. Their rules.
In all honesty, I do get a bit tired of certain tangents from the same 4-5 posters, but without them no one would ever visit this site anymore.
Adrianacandle,
In hindsight it’s common sense that GRRM should have plotted out ASOIAF from start to finish in as much detail as possible beforehand, considering how complicated the epic actually is (number of characters, multiple parallel & intersecting story threads etc). Fine, he prefers not to work that way, but it would have made it much easier to manage the actual writing process and it probably would have avoided the current issues, even if GRRM had decided to change various things along the way. Basic lesson from any professional field involving lengthy complicated “projects/cases/missions” with multiple “moving parts”.
Having said that, according to GRRM’s new blog post he’s now finished the latest of 30 “Wild Cards” stories, so something has clearly gone wrong with being able to easily complete the final ASOIAF books. Overcomplicated storyline, boredom, short attention span, too many side-projects, I don’t know. But the sheer number of other things he’s now involved in according to the list in that blog post is definitely food for thought.
Jai,
Well, not every creative (and by creative, I mean writer/artist/designer/photographer/anyone else in the creative field) can work in a standard way, especially when it comes to creative endeavors, which do take quite a lot from a person’s soul (for lack of a better world). If one isn’t able to work this way, no matter how hard they try, spending time on a detailed outline ala JKR likely won’t help a ton and they’re like to discard it anyway. So I don’t know that it’d do much to help GRRM avoid these current issues in the way that he thinks and executes his stories.
At heart, I think this goes down to something like multi-modal learning schemes and I’d expand that to multi-modal working schemes. Some people are able to learn by verbal lectures, some need kinesthetic access to material in order to retain it. Some people can create a fully fleshed out plot map telling them where they need to go and when. Others, their brain and creative drive can’t work that way. Brains are so different, so mysterious, and can be pretty unique in the way they work — especially when it comes to creative output. It’s almost like, as an artist myself, we’re at the mercy of the brain rather than the brain being under one’s control (if that makes any sense — I mean, a brain is us but at the same time, not us.)
I guess what I’m saying is that forcing a writer into a template that doesn’t suit them won’t do much good either. I mean, GRRM is the maker of his own problems here, yes. I think he threw too much in the air and now has quite the puzzle to solve. Not only that, the building pressure, what may be going on mentally with him, perhaps loss of inspiration, etc. All of these issues can combine to make a giant gumball of tangled elastics.
I’ve experienced this and I’ve seen artists I know experience this too. With GRRM, it feels like the muse has to come to him and then, the words just flow out. When it’s not there, it’s like getting water from a stone. A very tricky way of working that, unfortunately, is not foreign to artists.
Yeah, I’d say some of those are problems and I think GRRM is… stuck. It’s my speculation he looks to other projects to get that fulfillment of productivity until the muse comes to him, he has an epiphany over how to solve a puzzle he may be frustrated by writing ASOIAF, etc. It’s a doozy and I hope he’s able to figure it out. From what I see, it seems he wants to but I get the sense that he’s paralysed or stalled.
I’m sorry, Mr Derp. I’ll try to limit my off topic commentary, especially anything personal :/
Adrianacandle,
In all honesty, it doesn’t really bother me that much at all. The only thing that truly bothers me is the musical selections and you’re not responsible for those 🙂
Like I said earlier, if it wasn’t for the same 4-5 people posting here everyday, this site would get almost no traffic at all.
It’s usually either that, or someone igniting a season 8 debate over whether it sucked or was the tits.
Perhaps certain posters should frequent this site and contribute more often instead of dropping by once a month to complain about the comments. That might help keep things on-topic.
Mr Derp,
That’s very noticeable, although it’s not clear if the moderators aren’t bothered about the problematic behaviour despite the effect it has on their website or (like so many people) they currently have much more serious real-world hassles to deal with in their own lives. If it’s the second reason, it’s obviously not correct for commenters to exploit it.
It’s also worth considering that these tangents may actually be putting off a lot of people from commenting on this site. The relatively small number of regulars here at the moment isn’t necessarily due to “lack of major developments/news”. Like I said, this isn’t happening at other influential fansites — and WotW is probably the biggest fansite affiliated with one of the world’s biggest entertainment franchises.
You mean apart from recently realising that Dany’s personality type is basically “Taylor Swift with dragons” ? 😉
Hey now, that’s an insult to….Dany! She may have killed thousands of innocent people, but she’s nowhere near as bad as Taylor Swift and her “swifties”.
Thankfully none of the musical selections have included her…yet.
I’ve considered it, but it doesn’t put me off from coming here. I honestly don’t know why it would deter anyone else, but I know ymmv.
Jai,
I’m not trying to exploit anything, Jai, much less exploit whatever issues moderators are facing in their personal lives. Of course not. I truly enjoy the community here. Believe me, I’m not rubbing my hands together, thinking I’m getting away with something when I make an off-topic comment. I’m trying to cut back and try to ensure I hide off-topic commentary under spoiler coding so others don’t have to read it. Do they still bother you even when hidden under spoiler codes?
I am on WiC and there isn’t a ton of active debate there either (from what I’ve observed). I’ve seen other fansites that I’m familiar with slow down in the interim, which I think is natural at this point. Speaking from my own experience, I have been in contact with some who no longer comment on this site and they’ve cited reasons as being they’ve moved on from GoT to other shows since it’s two years on or they are tired of the same fights. Some have plans to come back if TWOW is released and when HotD premieres. I look forward to having debates about that 🙂
I think fresh material will bring more commenters and help get some nice new debate.
I’ve never seen a moderator on this site actually enforce the rules. I did have one chastise me for using the word “female” though. That was fun. They usually only chime in when they feel like getting snarky with someone.
I also recall there was a thread a year or two ago that was supposed to cover a discussion on the topic of racism, but it was so heavily moderated that an honest discussion wasn’t even possible.
It’s kind of hard to get a beat on how this site is actually moderated. I guess we kind of moderate each other for now.
Mr Derp,
Thanks! I think we’ve reached an awkward in-between place and once HotD gets going, discussion should become re-focused again.
Adrianacandle,
I’m not one of your detractors, so I’m not the best person to ask, but I personally thought spoiler coding was fine. You also contribute on-topic as often, if not more so, than your off topic stuff, so that’s mainly why I don’t mind.
People’s tastes in music varies dramatically. I recall one of my first jobs was working in a record store, and none of us could ever agree on what music to put on over the loudspeakers.
For me, I can’t stand pop music. It’s a non-starter for me. I can stand just about any other type of music for the most part. My main style of music is probably hard rock. “Tool” is my favorite band.
I used to hate country music, but I have a newfound sense of respect for it since I saw the Ken Burns documentary last year. I really like Merle Haggard and a few others.
Bringing this back to GoT, I always thought Ramin’s score was one of the best parts of GoT. I rewatched season 1 this past weekend and that’s what stood out to me the most. Just how damn good the music was.
Mr Derp,
Fair enough and thank-you for your input! 🙂 And you’re right about musical tastes. Sometimes, I wonder if somebody’s taste in music is as different as a fingerprint. It’s often so unique.
I absolutely agree. His music always seemed to go to my bones and vibrate there, especially with the use of the cello. So so rich. I think “The Rains of Castamere” is my favourite. His work involves such beautiful scoring and often, so many unique combinations of sounds. No other soundtrack has given me that many goosebumps. I really look forward to his work on HotD.
Now that I’m bring up Ramin’s amazing score, I realize that this topic has been covered to death already too.
I think you’re right Adriana. There’s very little to discuss right now in terms of GoT/HOTD. Everything has already been covered to death.
I think that’s a big reason why the commenting is so sparse…and the frustration with never-ending “was season 8 good or not” debate. I think things will pick up once HOTD heats up.
Yeah and once HotD gets going, I look forward to HotD, especially seeing this community react to characters like Alicent, Rhaenyra, Daemon, Nettles, etc. There’s a commenter around here, Max, who seems to be an expert on this history and is very enthusiastic about it. I think it’ll be nice to get that kind of freshness again 🙂 I’d like to feel that same anticipation again too!
There was a time when GRRM was able to write ASOIAF fast and efficiently:
A Game of Thrones – August 1, 1996 – 694 pages
A Clash of Kings – November 16, 1998 – 761 pages
A Storm of Swords – August 8, 2000 – 973 pages
Those three books were the first half of his (originally planned) six-book series. They built an entire world from scratch, introduced us to so many iconic characters, and gave us so many unforgettable plot developments. They are universally revered by book readers, and they contain most of the important stuff that happens in the first four seasons of the show. Sure enough, aside from a few nutters, the first four seasons are also held in high regard by show watchers. All that from 3 huge books that he wrote over the course of six years! But then…
A Feast for Crows – October 17, 2005 – 753 pages
Something went horribly, horribly wrong with GRRM’s creative writing process. It’s as if the transition over to the 21st century zapped his brain and he went off a cliff. In any event, GRRM clearly started to do something differently with his future ASOIAF work that he hadn’t done previously. Or perhaps he was now NOT doing something that he did before. Planning? Outlining? Editing? Who knows? The fourth planned book got so sprawling and so hopelessly bloated with side-plots, tangents, and new characters that it took him five years to release what was essentially not even half of it:
A Dance with Dragons – July 12, 2011 – 1016 pages
And then it takes him another almost six years to produce the second half of this entry. And it’s not even really finished! Several of the plot threads just end anticlimactically, and GRRM has made it known over the years that there simply wasn’t room for their endings in this book and that they would be promptly resolved… in the next book. Crikey! The response to these books was not all that great, to say the least. Plodding and incoherent, going nowhere in particular, only sometimes concerning characters most of the audience cared about
Bottom line: it doesn’t take a genius or a fellow author to see that GRRM clearly lost his way long ago. And it wasn’t a slow process – it seems to have happened virtually overnight. The differences between the first three books and the last two – both in their production and their finished states of quality – is jarring. Night and day. 25 years ago he had purpose and focus. Now he has none. His heart clearly hasn’t been in writing these books for many years now. Otherwise he wouldn’t be desperately trying to do anything else but write the books or even talk about them.
Ahh, those were the days…I feel a wave of creative nostalgia coming on…🥴
Except I am speaking for myself. Problem is you cannot accept the fact that it doesn’t fit with your own narrative. And based on the comment above, you may want to take a good look in the mirror and take your own advice as well. As you said…let it go…
By the way…this how some people are “letting it go”…this is the headline of the article from The Irish Times from April 15, 2021 on the tenth anniversary of GOT:
“Game of Thrones is 10 years old … and already feels irrelevant
Two years ago, the world was transfixed by the TV fantasy show. Now we see how shallow it was…”
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/game-of-thrones-is-10-years-old-and-already-feels-irrelevant-1.4537678
I would have thought its shallowness was visible from outer space right from the very start. It’s a fantasy show about tits and dragons after all.
That does not mean it was wasn’t very enjoyable or very well done. It’s just not that important in the grand scheme of life.
Besides, that article ended with the following quotes, which are quite positive:
“Where does that leave fantasy? In a better place than might be expected, as it turns out. ”
“In my more fanciful moments, I hope that, rather than the end of something, Game of Thrones might be the beginning.”
See, when you speak for yourself, you have to limit yourself to, well, speaking for YOURSELF.
Your quotes that I pulled clearly illustrate that you’re also speaking on behalf of other people and making assumptions to, well, fit your “narrative”. You’re obviously trying to belittle those that didn’t like the final season. This isn’t complicated.
and the only one weaving any kind of “narrative” is you. I’ve made my feeling quite clear on this. I’m sick and tired of the same arguments about liking vs. hating season 8. If you want to call that a “narrative” go ahead, but it’s pretty obvious you’re having trouble with differing opinions on the final season and you don’t want to let it go, whereas most other people have moved on with their life. We all know which posters here hated it and which ones thought it was the tits. No one is moving from their positions.
Talk about letting go. See when I made the comment about liking GOT and it’s ending making sense, you felt compelled to answer in that manner. But that is alright. No one asked you to or required it. Yet you did…because you know…”reasons”…and I was speaking for myself, as I continue to do, since I don’t expect you or anyone else to share my opinion, same would be fair in return. But nope. It cannot be.
However it seems that you have a very different idea of what speaking for oneself means. If one agrees with your opinion, then that person speaks for oneself. If anybody deviates from your way of looking at things, well then they are not, but creating a narrative to suit their own…kind of what you keep doing.
And yes GOT is not more relevant than many other things in our lives. Not by a long shot. But for me in particular, besides just enjoying the show on it’s own merits, aspects of it, quite a few, clicked personally and hit home, because of certain things I’ve experienced and been through in my own life. Not the “tits and dragons” part as you put it, but certain themes, ideas, events and of course characters. If it had been all shallow with only tits and dragons I would have lost interest long ago…nevermind that I wouldn’t have bothered with the books either.
See the problem isn’t that people didn’t like the show, or it’s ending or individual seasons, but that for some that isn’t enough. No, they have to make sure that no one else does either. They have to make sure that they destroy, embitter and ruin everyone else’s enjoyment of it. It isn’t simply enough to have a different opinion on it…or engage in a discussion about it or put out some thoughts. Nope, the mere fact that someone else could have conceivably liked something they didn’t is just simply not acceptable.
I sincerely hope that you are not one of them. But the again to each his own. Be well…
You’re either unbelievably dishonest or you just don’t understand the conversation.
The comment I made that you quoted was in reference to your comment about bringing the show back in 10 years for a sequel. It literally had nothing to do with season 8 or your opinion of it. FFS.
I already explained this. You can’t claim you’re only speaking for yourself when you specifically make a bunch of grossly oversimplified statements about other people’s opinions about the ending.
That’s you literally speaking for other people.
Sigh…it seems we are on different wavelengths. And yes you are right, this discussion is pointless. Also, it seems you are getting angrier and more personal. Curious. But whatever…
I’ll just leave it at saying that opinions are like a-holes. We all have one. Mine doesn’t matter any more than yours and viceversa. So again, to each his own..
Wimsey,
It might also be that writing plot is a lot easier than writing stories! The big failing of the conclusion of the show was that story & plot became very uncoupled: and that probably has a lot to do with why we’ve never seen the last two books.
The lack of material from Martin definitely hampered D&D’s efforts, yes. They went from condensing and re-writing well-written material, to essentially writing fan-fic from Martin’s outline. This made their jobs no easier, to put it mildly.
I disagree that this added difficulty caused a “big failing,” though. To this audience member, at least, all characters remained in-character as the conclusion approached, and their fates flowed organically. Sansa used her court-intrigue skills to remove a threat, Tyrion yet again tried (and yet-again failed) to have someone he loved flee Westeros for the Free Cities, Jon reluctantly Did What He Had To Do (and there was much moping!), etc. Back at the start, I had really disliked the Great Big Road Adventure of Arya & The Hound, but I almost cried when she thanked him by name.
Anyway, as I once wrote to Adrianacandle, it’s art; either it works for you, or it does not. Your comments have been one of my favorite reasons for reading this site, and I hope you can ultimately enjoy GoT as much as did I. (Shall I ask you again in ten years?)
Tensor the Mage, Still Loving the Ending,
Why did you dislike the Arya and Hound journey? I am really curious, because I loved it and it remained one of my favourite part every time I watched the show.
Thank you for asking. When their journey started, I was new to the whole “subvert the tropes” idea that Martin used. My favorite characters had all died violently, some of them for seemingly trivial causes, and sending two very dissimilar characters on a long trip looked like a very lazy plot device; combining it with the device of forcing a child to mature by killing her parent did not help. (As I’ve mentioned previously, I really haven’t read much popular fiction since college, preferring history or classic literature; the only reason I started watching the show at all was at the urging of my spouse, who has a childhood friend who grew up to work with Martin.) Maisie Williams is a very talented actress, but most of her material with Rory McCann seemed to be reciting Arya’s ever-growing list of characters she hopelessly wanted to kill; I believe D.B. Weiss called it “her prayer of hate.” None of this interested me.
As I got more into their story, and began to understand how the many various storylines and characters interacted, I began to view their journey more and more favorably. Rabbit Stew Sally made for an interesting minor character, and “Dying’s thirsty work” remains one of my favorite lines from the entire show. When Arya thanks Sandor, their story is complete: she started by wanting to kill him, and now sadly recognizes she cannot stop him from killing himself. It brought emotional heft to what was otherwise a loud gore-fest surrounding them at that moment.
Tensor the Mage, Still Loving the Ending,
Thank you for the detailed, clear explanation and hurray for your spouse!
That is true, but it is also not really germane to my point. The stories always centered around “damned if you do, damned if you don’t.” We did get that at the very end: Daenerys is stuck between the choice of “Dresden/Nagasaki” or being perceived as weak. Jon and Tyrion are trapped between loyalty to Daenerys and loyalty to what they think Daenerys should be doing.
However, the biggest failing was that there was nothing of this when dealing with the White Walkers. In an indirect way, Daenerys gets it by opting to risk her armies (and taking heavy loses) only to get zero thanks from and ultimately betrayed by the Starks. But it really should have been something to do with the Walkers themselves: there should have been some cost to defeating them besides loss of troops. As it was, we never even got a “why” to the Walkers: what is so important about wiping out memory & thought? How do they gain from that? Their goal should have been accomplish/preserve/remove something that the primary protagonists would recognize as good to accomplish/preserve/remove and thus have to live with the cost of that thing being gone/present because they could not find a way to stop the White Walkers methods.
Apologies if this has already been mentioned. A very short interview with Olivia Cooke though discussion of HoD doesn’t start till about 2.21. https://youtu.be/NAkkou2ufz4 Her natural speaking voice sounds northern English – with her colouring she could play a Stark if she wasn’t already playing Alicent.
I think that was posted a little while ago but thank you for sharing! 🙂 I think she’d also have made a good Lyanna too if she were involved in the Harrenhal production! (Although, I don’t think she’s a Broadway performer, is she?)
Adriana, I had a look at the Wikipedia entry for Olivia Cooke. I can’t see that she’s played in any big musicals but she played Maria in ‘West Side Story’ when she was at college and in a modernised version (called ‘Prom’) of the Cinderella story at the Oldham Theatre Workshop. I also noted that she played a 1943 character in ‘The Secret of Crickley Hall’ (TV series) which also featured Maisie Williams and Donald Sumpner (Maester Lewen).
I stand corrected thanks! 🙂
This is certainly a big problem when it comes to movies, TV shows, even actors and stuff like that and I think with social networks, such stuff became even more prominent. With GoT, I’m seeing a very similar pattern as I still see with LOST when it comes to “web fandom”. I personally didn’t watch LOST during its original run, but in 2011 which is a year after it stopped airing so I don’t really know what the fandom was like during its original run and of course, the show aired when social networks weren’t that big thing yet. But I did get to know shortly after I wrapped it up that the ending was polarizing one (I loved it btw) and of course, I spotted some Youtube comments “The ending s*cked” and such but 15-year old me didn’t pay much attention to that. It wasn’t until 2016/2017 when I realized how bitter a certain part of the audience are. Literally what you said there… when I was an admin in that online community, we recruited people from official LOST page on Facebook and in these years well up to this day. People are straight up enraged there 10 years after the show ended. Comments are toxicity to full extent there, people still act “offended” that LOST page actually dares to post something show-related after the ending they hated. Every-single-time a post appeared there, hundreds of people went berserk on them with extreme hateful comments. If that’s not toxic and embittered behavior, I don’t know what to call it and I’m fully fully sure such people have big effect on people who would consider starting the show themselves but they decide not to. Oh, and then these same people replied to our recruiting posts that we should “let go” because the TV show was already over… so we who had a positivity-focused fansite should stop, but they are not beating a dead horse because they’re berserking all over the official page? But the interesting thing is that if you just threw a look on those comments, you would think pretty much everyone hates it but as the new recruits flooded to our group in hundreds during such recruiting, it turned out majority of them were very appreciative to the TV show, ending included and they were happy they were finally in circle of more like-minded people. The most toxic people didn’t even come to our group… well, with few exceptions but those didn’t last long anyway. That was our intention in first place… to filter out the “fandom” and find people who wish to remember the TV show in good memory. And it also turned out several of them were just confused about various plot points, but got new appreciation for it after hearing explainations in our group. Or some rewatched the show with new knowledge in mind and it became even better experience for them and stuff like that. I believe GoT is in very similar situation, only it came out when social media was at its peak so the embitterment is way more slammed in our faces, even when we want to avoid it. But I believe time heals and opens new horizons and that the fandom will start filtering at one point.
Adrianacandle,
I wasn’t having a go, Adriana – and one of the musicals wasn’t a professional gig because she was still a student at the time. And neither of those performances were on Broadway.
Erik, formerly Lord Parramandas,
I won’t say the name but there’s a YouTuber who seems to want to stop the two Ds working in future. I mean it’s perfectly okay for people to be disappointed with how the show ended though I don’t know why some folk are STILL incandescent with rage about the ending of the show (not so much on this site). I think the suggestions made that people agree to disagree regarding season 8 of GoT are sensible.
I upset one lady from a U3A group I belong to when I said I wasn’t a fan of Philippa Gregory’ books. I mean it wasn’t like I was stopping her from reading them. Folk will always disagree about books/films. I read the first book of the ‘Wheel of Time’ series and while I didn’t dislike it, I wasn’t crazy about it either. I’ve noticed that a lot of its fans started reading it in their youth(s) so maybe I’m just too old for it.
I was being sincere with my thanks — I’m sorry for giving the impression otherwise 🙁 I did appreciate your correction and the information you offered.
Dame of Mercia,
Yeah, I agree. It makes absolutely zero sense to me to get personal with the people who created the TV show. When a painter makes a picture, you can either like it or not like it, but you don’t scold the painter why they made it in first place if you don’t get fond of it. I believe exactly the same should apply to visual and written media. I personally have a bit of regret spending 80 euros on buying AFFC and ADWD when they got released in my country because as much as I used to read and re-read them in 2012-2014, I lost my interest for these two novels after S5 got released and I doubt I’ll ever read them again if GRRM doesn’t release the remaining books… they currently serve as elevated podium for my computer monitor so I don’t get neck pain. But I’m not putting a blame on GRRM for it… I’m putting a blame on myself because it was me who bought them and sadly, it was not the right gamble on long term.
Wimsey,
“The king won’t do you the honor. The history books won’t mention you. But we will never forget.” (S02E10 – Valar Morghulis)
When I think of this line from Varys in the aftermath of Battle of Blackwater, I in my humble opinion feel this is the “damned” part of battle against the White Walkers. I think nobody can deny that if White Walkers weren’t defeated at Winterfell, the world would have ended and humanity would stop existing. At no point of the story was it so much at stake as it was during this battle. And when it comes to saving humanity’s existence, they succeeded. They saved the world, millions and millions of lives. But there was no more to that.
In most ideal scenario that audience expected, Dany would claim the Iron Throne, potentially marry Jon and then unite the Kingdoms in fighting the White Walkers. Even the biggest sceptics would have been faced with the truth how pointless any civil war was because there was always much bigger enemy that threatened everyone. And after that, Westeros would be at peace and in unity. But we never got that. True, we did get various nations uniting in order to fight the White Walkers but majority of Westeros will never know what these people did for them. Just like the original Long Night that nobody knows if it actually happened, this Long Night will fade into legends and stories too. By defeating the Army of the Dead, they saved millions of lives who will never acknowledge their sacrifice, who might never even believe that White Walkers existed.
But I don’t think the most damned part is that Westeros won’t acknowledge it, or that Cersei and EUron never suffered direct consequences for not helping with White Walkers, but the part that despite going through hell together, even the protagonists couldn’t make things right between themselves. After the battle was over, there was more tension between protagonists than ever before, between people that I believe we loved as characters. We audience now have to face the fact that there won’t be a clean ending to the story. And the sad thing is that it wasn’t the White Walkers that were a splash in the face to Westerosi lords for them to sober up from all the schemes and such, but the burning of King’s Landing. Death of half a million people inflicted by one of the major protagonists that both the characters and the audience put all hopes in. It took something this horrific to happen that Westeros even got a potential chance for peace… a chance to stop playing game of thrones and aim for peaceful future. I believe we did get a peaceful ending for surviving characters and for Westeros too, especially in light of everything that had to happen. But it wasn’t the noble values that made a path to it, it was fire and bloodshed and likely fear as well… fear of something like that ever happening again. Just my two cents.
This isn’t to do with GoT and although ‘Penny Dreadful’ wasn’t my cup of tea, I was sad to learn that actress, Helen McCrory, who played a medium in that show, died of cancer on 16th April 2021. She’d have been 53 in August this year so she wasn’t old by present day standards.
I really loved “Penny Dreadful”. One of my favourite shows around. Helen McCrory is one of the reasons for that. She was excellent in the second season of the show and made for a good villain and antagonist to Eva Green. This is really sad. She had a varied and interesting career besides the “Harry Potter” movies and “Penny Dreadful”. Very talented, classy and definitely too young to be taken away. I can only imagine what her husband, Damien Lewis, is going through right now. RIP and condolences…
Dame of Mercia,
I completely forgot that she had appeared in Penny Dreadful, thanks for mentioning it! I have admired her since Peaky Blinders, have you watched the series? She was magnificent! Last year I saw her in a play which I was lucky to watch online (I love theatre) and I was impressed by her acting: vulnerability, passion, dispair, regaining control, everything was there! I couldn’t believe she had passed and I’m so sorry for her husband, Damian Lewis, whom I also admire.
I would really love to watch this reunion, does anyone know how it would be possible fro the UK? I had a quick look through the Sky on demand section and they only have all the series episodes and recaps, plus some stuff which aired back in 2019.
Doesn’t that release only next year though? Feels strange to start hyping it up so early.
Wimsey,
The stories always centered around “damned if you do, damned if you don’t.”
Not always. Arya committed mass murder at The Twins, with absolutely no ill effects for her — or for anyone else — afterwards. The Starks recovered Winterfell, executed Lord Bolton via torture, and also suffered no problems afterwards. Arya had carefully chosen her victims so as to kill only the guilty, and the King in the North carefully avoided punitive revenge against any Northern House who had supported the Boltons. The lesson seems to be that justice tempered with mercy works well for everyone.
We did get that at the very end: Daenerys is stuck between the choice of “Dresden/Nagasaki” or being perceived as weak.
I didn’t perceive her behavior as originating in fear of being perceived as weak, but rather from her disgust with the people she’d always wanted to rule. Although considering herself born to the Iron Throne, she never bothered to learn anything about the people of Westeros. (At her wedding, she is given books full of “songs and tales of Westeros,” but we never see her reading them, or having them read to her.) To her, when the inhabitants of King’s Landing refused to rise up for her against Cersei, they were more cowardly than the slaves of Astapor, who had risen up in her name. She decided to be a conqueror, not a ruler, and a city of ashes needs no ruler.
But it really should have been something to do with the Walkers themselves: there should have been some cost to defeating them besides loss of troops. As it was, we never even got a “why” to the Walkers: what is so important about wiping out memory & thought? How do they gain from that? Their goal should have been accomplish/preserve/remove something that the primary protagonists would recognize as good to accomplish/preserve/remove and thus have to live with the cost of that thing being gone/present because they could not find a way to stop the White Walkers methods.
The Walkers had no desires, nothing to gain. They were murder zombies who got out from under control by their creators, the Children of the Forest. Their mission expanded from “kill all the First Men,” to “kill all the living bipeds,” to “kill everything, and wipe all memory of it ever having existed.” It’s a natural progression from their original brief.
Yes, there were many “damned if you do, maybe greater damned if you don’t” choices faced by protagonists in the series, which made for great realism in The Lands of Tits & Dragons. But the story’s two titular, existential threats — ice and fire — could only be overcome by destroying them. No one could even speak with the Night’s King, much less negotiate with him, and when Jon talked to Dany about the piles of still-smoking children’s corpses in the streets below, it didn’t even register with her. In each case, there was nothing to do but “stick ’em with the pointy end.”
I agree regarding White Walkers. I personally don’t get when I hear complaints that we didn’t get backstory on White Walkers… we very much got it and it turned out to be very straightforward. They were a weapon created to destroy humanity that got out of control, nothing more than that. Whether people liked that backstory or not, that’s a different matter. But we got the backstory.
I really wonder what role has GRRM in mind for them but with only two novels remaining and with WW appearing in person for total of 2 times, I doubt he can bring out something very complex.