Game of Thrones Season 8 Alternate Endings Debunked by Maisie Williams

Arya Stark Unsullied King's Landing Season 8 806

It’s been a rumor before the final season of Game of Thrones even began filming: “they’ll shoot alternate finale scenes so the real ending doesn’t leak!” There wasn’t much reason to believe this, but showrunner David Benioff added fuel to the flames by implying as much, and a few cast members said it outright–though, as it turns out, they were either misdirecting the press for fun or misinformed themselves. Whatever their reasons, if there were still any doubts, Maisie Williams is here to put them to rest.

This idea of “alternate endings” took root back in 2017, when HBO’s programming president Casey Bloys claimed “they’re going to shoot multiple versions so that there’s no real definitive answer until the end.” Even at the time, we warned readers to take his words with a grain of salt. As I wrote more than two years ago: “HBO doesn’t have the budget to film multiple finale episodes (or even entire sequences) that will never air. That’s just a tremendous waste of money for very little gain,” as “just keeping the cameras rolling and the cast and crew on location costs ridiculous amounts of money.”

At the Sky Up Next showcase red carpet, Maisie Williams corroborated our suspicious while speaking to Metro: “We didn’t [film an alternate ending]. It costs so much money and the schedule was way too tight. We were spending all the money on dragons.”

She jokingly adds, in regards to the much-maligned ending, that she believes “people wish we did,” but they definitely did not: “We didn’t! So, that’s your lot!”

So there it is.

We will never get to watch a scene in which, say, Jon joins Daenerys in the end, or someone other than Bran becomes king. Scripted alternate endings are another–much more plausible–matter, one which could’ve easily been accomplished as a cheap safety measure against leaks, but shooting them was always out of the question.

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    1. Thanks to Mrs. Williams. The ending we got was perfect and brilliantly written by Mr. Benioff and Mr. Weiss. I can’t think of a different ending. I will always be greatful.

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    2. ”Whatever their reasons, if there were still any doubts, Maisie Williams is here to put them to rest.”

      “Put them to rest.” ⚰️
      Ha ha. I see what you did there.
      🗡 👸🏻

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    3. Brilliant. Thank you Maisie for debunking that awful rumor. We got the ending we deserved except looking back on it some of the fanbase deserved nothing. Thank you Mr. Benioff and Mr. Weiss and the entire cast and crew for a marvelous and breathtaking 8 seasons/73 episodes, I’ll always be grateful. Dany on top of Drogon right before she turns mad is the single greatest moment in cinema history and King Bran the Broken is a moment I’ll never forget. Every single character arc ended the way it should if you go back and do a complete rewatch. Can’t wait for my next complete watch!

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    4. Embedded in the Metro article is a link to another Maisie Williams Metro News article with a trailer for her upcoming Sky TV series,
      “Two Weeks to Live.”

      (I liked the snippet when her character’s mom scolds her: “How many times have I said to you! ‘Gloves and a gun, if you want to have fun.’ I mean it rhymes for f*ck’s sake!)

      [Title of Article]
      Game of Thrones Maisie Williams is badass in Two Weeks To Live trailer | Metro News

      [from text of article]
      “Maisie Williams is sticking with tradition for her first major role since Game of Thrones: being a total badass in Two Weeks To Live. The 22-year-old has left Arya Stark and her weapon of choice Needle behind and has now familiarised herself with a gun, teaming up with Fleabag’s Sian Clifford in a bloody, suspenseful thriller as part of the new Sky 2020 line-up.”

      “Maisie takes the lead as Kim, who’s on the run from her frantic mother Tina (Sian) desperate to avenge her father’s killer 15 years after his murder. ‘Kim has been living with her overprotective mother for 16 years, and they’ve been in a very remote place,’ Maisie explained at last night’s Sky Up Next event, describing the role as her ‘biggest’ since Game of Thrones. ‘The story begins with Kim leaving home in search of a normal life and she meets two boys and they try to show her the fun things in life and as they get to know her better they realise there’s some complicated things in her past.’ Maisie was joined by Fleabag icon Sian, who explained she’d never seen a female character like Tina before.”

      “That’s what really drew me in,’ she enthused. ‘They’ve lived off the grid for 16 years, she’s a hunter, she’s really ruthless, she’s definitely overprotective and she doesn’t want anything to disrupt this world she’s created and we come to discover why.’ ‘It’s a bit bloodier [than Fleabag],’ she teased. ‘Fleabag is dark in its own way – grief is a pretty dark topic. The adventures they go on are dangerous at times.’ ‘But not as dark as Game of Thrones,’ Maisie joked.”

      “Metro.co.uk caught up with Maisie at last night’s Up Next event where she explained where most of the $90 million budget for the Game of Thrones finale went…”

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    5. A few alternate scenes…well, not even scenes, but characters hanging out casually etc for a glimpse would have been more than enough to confuse watchful eyes. I can’t imagine even a small production spending the $ on actual endings or full scenes!

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    6. Netflix has experimented with movies that have multiple interactive endings. So far I haven’t enjoyed that experience. In theory it sounds good but I don’t really like having to decide and then watch the same scenes again from a different perspective.

      I’m not sure how long we will be debating season 8. I love Maisie’s photo in the article but I have a problem with dwelling on season 8. But i guess since so many feel so strongly we may continue to discuss it from yet another angle. I would like to hear about what D&D are working on now. Also the prequel is pretty far away but has there been any casting news?

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    7. Pigeon,

      Agree, filming is just too expensive, never expected that they filmed extra scenes.
      But they did if memory serves right ask actors to be on certain film-days to distract the fans. Wasn’t it Kit that told that he had to be on set when not filming? (With Lena). Could remember wrong.

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    8. Tron79:
      Netflix has experimented with movies that have multiple interactive endings. So far I haven’t enjoyed that experience.In theory it sounds good but I don’t really like having to decide and then watch the same scenes again from a different perspective.

      I’m not sure how long we will be debating season 8.I love Maisie’s photo in the article but I have a problem with dwelling on season 8. But i guess since so many feel so strongly we may continue to discuss it from yet another angle. I would like to hear about what D&D are working on now.Also the prequel is pretty far away but has there been any casting news?

      I agree :/

      Are you talking about Black Mirror’s Bandersnatch? Yeah, it does sound like a great idea on paper but I found it kind of disrupted the flow of the narrative (also, to be fair to the story, I was wrapping presents at the time and wasn’t paying attention so the story kept looping over and over) but I think it’s perhaps a method that can maybe be perfected over time?

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    9. kevin1989:
      Pigeon,

      Agree, filming is just too expensive, never expected that they filmed extra scenes.
      But they did if memory serves right ask actors to be on certain film-days to distract the fans. Wasn’t it Kit that told that he had to be on set when not filming? (With Lena). Could remember wrong.

      I remember that too, Jon and Cersei up on the walkway/tower/crenellations/whatever in King’s Landing in a few photos. I can’t remember either whether that was supposed to throw people off, or maybe just a deleted scene. There have been so many leaks of the show over the years that it’d be smart to do a few of those “oh darn, they caught us” moments.

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    10. Pigeon: I remember that too, Jon and Cersei up on the walkway/tower/crenellations/whatever in King’s Landing in a few photos. I can’t remember either whether that was supposed to throw people off, or maybe just a deleted scene. There have been so many leaks of the show over the years that it’d be smart to do a few of those “oh darn, they caught us” moments.

      I remember Sophie Turner saying, back in October 2018, that they shot fake scenes:

      Also, we shoot fake scenes. We got into costume in Croatia because we know the paparazzi lurk around there, so we would spend like half a day doing nothing.

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    11. Adrianacandle: I agree :/

      Are you talking about Black Mirror’s Bandersnatch? Yeah, it does sound like a great idea on paper but I found it kind of disrupted the flow of the narrative (also, to be fair to the story, I was wrapping presents at the time and wasn’t paying attention so the story kept looping over and over) but I think it’s perhaps a method that can maybe be perfected over time?

      Yep that’s the one. It was a bit boring having to watch the same scenes again from a different angle. And the decisions seemed random.

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    12. Jared,

      Jared, without doxing yourself, did you say at one time you have something to do with the entertainment industry? I’m interested to observe you are not bashing the ending of show GoT.

      It would have been very expensive to film bogus scenes I feel and costly to pay the actors – even if there was no film in the cameras.

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    13. Yeah, I think they shot some scenes to throw the fans off. Like Kit’s and Lena’s at Dubrovnik, which was with the Ds on set, cameramen and others. While they shot that scene (fotos leaked), the scene that was filmed and made it on screen was Kit walking down from the battlements to his exile. Sophie was reported as also being there to film (perhaps the goodbye scene) but I haven’t seen pictures, so might have been filmed in the studio with Maisie and Isaac. Sophie herself said about it that they got in costume but did absolutely nothing. (she’s such a troll, lol).
      Kit was also at Seville, like many others (called for offering them a final vacation, nice of them!). They were in Seville for about twenty days, and the leaks had it that the DP scene was longer and more complicated, but who’d believe that? The actual shooting in Seville lasted probably 4-5 days, as much as Kit was there (without shooting himself).
      But an alternate ending? That’s crap, lol.

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    14. Tron79: Yep that’s the one. It was a bit boring having to watch the same scenes again from a different angle. And the decisions seemed random.

      Yeah, I feel the same way. It’s about the only Black Mirror episode I haven’t rewatched (along with the pig episode) — maybe because it feels like I’ve watched Bandersnatch five times already just to navigate the episode 🙂 I think the concept is very interesting and has a bunch of potential but I think the execution still needs some work. Still, I think it’s interesting territory to experiment with and explore.

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    15. Adrianacandle,

      In the computer adventure game project I told you about we had planned at least three different ways to get to the endgame. It made it more interesting especially if you wanted to replay it. You may have decided to follow a certain clue that others missed. I don’t think we had alternative endings though. You still saved the day and vanquished the evil Rah at the end but to get to his planet/dimension there were several paths to get there.

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    16. Adrianacandle,

      As others have said there were times when they sent Kit to places where he wasn’t shooting just to throw off the press. Kit sounded frustrated he couldn’t film anything if I recall the interview correctly.

      So d&d did a few things to throw people off but it doesn’t sound like they could pay for actual film crews with fake scenes. They could fly actors around but sending an entire film crew is another story.

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    17. Tron79,

      As others have said there were times when they sent Kit to places where he wasn’t shooting just to throw off the press. Kit sounded frustrated he couldn’t film anything if I recall the interview correctly.

      Yeah. I remember the cast/crew being sent to places they weren’t filming in order to throw the press off.

      In the computer adventure game project I told you about we had planned at least three different ways to get to the endgame. It made it more interesting especially if you wanted to replay it. You may have decided to follow a certain clue that others missed. I don’t think we had alternative endings though. You still saved the day and vanquished the evil Rah at the end but to get to his planet/dimension there were several paths to get there.

      I think that maybe would have been a better way for Bandersnatch to go as it’d offer three different stories to come to a similar ending. I recall Bandersnatch had different endings depending on the choices you made but, as you noted, I also thought it was boring having to watch some of the same scenes multiple times but from different perspectives when the show prompted you to choose again (especially if the story ended earlier than it was supposed to based on that choice).

      In any case, I would have liked to see the different stories unfold based on the different choices 🙂

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    18. Tron79: So d&d did a few things to throw people off but it doesn’t sound like they could pay for actual film crews with fake scenes. They could fly actors around but sending an entire film crew is another story.

      I agree. This is probably how they threw people off (sending actors to places, even if they weren’t filming there) and yeah, you and others are right that filming fake scenes would be very costly.

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    19. Shelle,

      It’s not depressing. People who actually thought you might get a different ending are delusional. There is no alternative ending and there is never going to be a remake of season 8. That’s just absurd and fandom entitlement.

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    20. Dame of Mercia,

      We all did that sometimes but I didn’t sense you read over my comment.

      Filming is too expensive, I could see that they filmed a scene that aired. But let other actors look at the paparazzi camera to make it feel something else will happen.

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    21. Thanks to Maisie for sticking a knife in that horned f*cker of a rumor!

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    22. The Season 7 trailer shows what is happening. Bran is the Night King and it’s Bran’s Eye… Bran’s POV

      Season 7 and 8 scenes are viewed through Bran’s “not ready” POV… Bran is the 3ER – The Night King – Bran has a lot going on inside his mind.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq0B0NVKghA

      In S6 E5 Bran asks the 3ER if he is Ready and the 3ER says “NO”… I think every scene after S6 E5 is seen through Bran’s flawed POV. The season 7 scenes happen but they are slightly colored by Bran’s POV and much more so in Season 8. That’s why season 7 and season 8 don’t seem quite right to me. In S7 E3 Bran tells Sansa that “He can see everything – Everything that is happening right now – It’s all pieces now, fragments – I need to learn to see better”. In S7 E4 Bran tells Arya that he saw her at the Inn at the Crossroads…. Bran’s POV – Arya is acting like the Hound at the Inn at the Crossroads.

      There are scenes that are filmed looking down toward the ground…. like a bird’s POV… Jaime and Cersie in the Map room… Daenerys meeting Melisandre… The 7 beyond the wall looking for a wight to take to Kings Landing….

      Bran just sitting around watching the GOT story happen would explain all the time travel scenes. As time goes on Bran becomes more zombie like and by the end of season 8 the stories are more crazy which might be what the season 8 teaser shows…

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NspqGM0DbbQ

      Bran’s flawed POV starts off slow and then speeds up and consumes the whole story by S8 E6… I think S8 E3 – E6 is Bran/3ER tapped into the Wierwood tree making up the story based on memories of all the characters.

      HBO Max starts in May 2020 and the latest teaser screams GOT – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDkBOB3gkgE
      “Welcome to Reality”

      Sopranos final season was 2 parts. Breaking Bad final season was 2 parts…
      Westworld Season 3 was announced 8 weeks before it’s Premier date. Westworld Season 3 ends May 3rd. The First day of Spring Thursday March 19th 2020 is 7 weeks before Sunday May 10th 2020. No One is expecting GOT season 9 – No one is looking for leaks because GOT is finished. What better way to start HBO Max than with HBO’s most successful show ever! Start the countdown clock…. and get ready for the 6 Final episodes of GOT…. please don’t be too mean:-)

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    23. Does it even matter at this stage? Bottom line the show runners and crew did a fantastic job of preventing leaks. I think other than the second episode being released early and the ending of episode 4 having stills appear online nothing really got out. For the biggest TV show in the world that’s some feat.

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    24. Dame of Mercia,

      No, I work in the medical field (training as a Family Medicine doctor). I just love movies and TV shows, so following the entertainment industry, particularly the complexities and realities of film production, has become a hobby of mine. Star Wars and Lord of the Rings were entry points on that front, but Game of Thrones – largely thanks to websites like WOTW, which tracked the production in the offseason – took it to another level! I don’t have any firsthand experience with film production, but at a certain point, you get at least a basic understanding of it. 🙂

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    25. My latest theory is that the whole GOT story is told from Bran’s POV… Something is going on between Bran and Night King… S1 E1 starts off Beyond the Wall when the Ranger sees all the heads decapitated. The first episode ends with Bran being pushed out the window, The 3ER starts sending Bran visions in his dreams all through season 1. GOT finished? with the Bran/3ER being King but Bran was not ready to be the 3ER… The longer Bran was 3ER the more zombie like he got. Visions from the 3ER made Jojen Reed have convulsions. Maybe the 3ER used memories found in the Godswood Wierwood tree to make up the final 3 and half episodes? Bran goes somewhere in S8 E3. The end of S8 E3 is very dreamy. Bronn is Master of Coin and is given Highgarden by Tyrion who doesn’t own Highgarden and Bronn wants to build brothels right away.. Tyrion was Hand of the King and now he is again… Podd wanted to be a Knight and now he is…. Samwell wanted to be Grand Maester and now he is. Jon loves the North – Sansa wanted to be Queen in the North and Arya said she wanted to sail west of Westeros in season 6…. all memories stored in the Godswood Wierwood tree. Daenerys destroyed Kings Landing just like all of the memories of her (stored in the wierwood tree) threatening to destroy other cities.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjue5j1JRaA

      I’ll try one more time…. The Season 7 Production teaser is a teaser for Season 9! Look how creepy it is… there weren’t any Blue Eyes in Season 7 and look how many there are in the teaser – Tyrion did not Say “Welcome Home my Queen” in Season 7 or 8 when he could of said “Welcome Home My Queen” to Daenerys right before she gave her Nazi speech after she destroyed Kings Landing. Tyrion did just the opposite and quit being Hand of the Queen.

      In the teaser there is a creepy looking Night Queen image @38 seconds and then a Lannister Lion as Qyburn says “Long May she Reign.” There are needles going up and down and 1 or 2 slashing cutting sounds @54 seconds. A few more blades cutting and sparks flying as the creepy music continues… and then “Welcome Home my Queen” . yeah D&D might be genius … time will tell

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    26. but that’s exactly what we’d expect her to say if they had done it! 😀

      Seriously, there were so few endings that would have been consistent with the story by the end of 6th season that if they had filmed multiple endings, or even leaked fake scripts, then it would have been pretty obvious to most of us. Really, the one big question was whether the plot was going to go the Scouring of the Shire Route (which, sadly, it did) or if it was going to go Aleppo (which, sadly, it did not).

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    27. Speaking of endings, I did finally finish the first HDM book.
      Tying it back into GOT, I thought book Lyra was similar to book Arya. Show Lyra was more “proper” than book Lyra. Book Lyra didn’t speak in perfect British English. She sounded more like a Gyptian in her normal dialect. Book Arya was even more down in the mud and scrappy than show Arya. You have to admit that Maisie is a style/fashion icon, so even as child Arya still looked great (even when dirty). A good example is when Arya was alittle older and in Braavos posing as the oysters, clams, and cockles merchant. Maisie looked totally put together in her new outfit and hair buns. Book Arya had oversize boots and was anything but put together style wise.

      I never got activated on the forum, so I’m doing a little thread derailment here for other HDM fans who are interested, but I’ll do my best to tie it to GOT when I can.

      My overall impression of the book/show (HDM) is that it would have been a tremendous help to read the book first. I think with GOT, it was just fine seeing the show first (I read the books after completing season 8, and I could enjoy both without having to read the books first). With HDM, Pullman totally explains what is happening. The show almost assumed you read the books first, because many things were confusing until I read the book version of the same scene. One example was when Lyra fell from the balloon unharmed in the show. In the books, it was made very clear that the balloon was descending and she fell into a snow drift. There were many other examples.

      Overall, I have to say that the HDM book to show adaptation was very close to the printed material. I will say though that Lord Asriel’s character in the book was perhaps the most different. I thought Lyra was much more fearful of him in the books, and he wasn’t quite as much of a romantic adventurer type as he appeared in the show. It might have just been the star power of James McAvoy. He didn’t seem as menacing and authoritative until the end. He was a bit too handsome probably (as compared to his book character), and Lyra didn’t really seem to have the same relationship with him in the show as she did in the books. She seemed more fearful of him early on in the books even though she did want to go with him. It was a difficult relationship to figure out.

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    28. Love the show now and always even end broke my heart im still watching seasons again and again till the end of time, i would like end be different but we have to take what we get and thats it, it was bitter sweet like they promised 😀

      Valar Morghulis from Finland

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    29. Tron79: The show almost assumed you read the books first, because many things were confusing until I read the book version of the same scene.

      My 11 year old son has not read the books and he has had next to no problem understanding the show. (And, yes, I obviously like to think that my F1 is a super-genius: but, realistically, I doubt that he has any special talents where all of this is concerned.) At any rate, no adaptation of a book for TV or film ever assumes that the audience has read the book: on the contrary, even for Harry Potter, the film-makers knew that the audience had to be >5X the book readership if the films were to be successful. And, of course, no other adapted book or book-series in recent history has anything like the readership that Harry Potter had. (Lord of the Rings probably had more overall readers by the time the film came out: but a large proportion of them had died in the 50 years since the books had come out, and many more had not read the books in so long that they had next to no memory of what happened in the books.)

      As for who Lyra is like, her similarities with Arya are pretty superficial. Yes, they have strong independent streaks relative to other women in their world: but their worlds are so different that it cannot help but to have generated different people. Moreover, the stories are very different from one another: and it’s rare that protagonists from very different stories will be all that similar. After all, the mere fact that the stories are different tells us that the dynamic development will be different, and 9 times out of about 9, the basic development will be of different people, too. (Arya has much more in common with Jon, Daenerys, Bran and Tyrion than with Lyra: but, then, as those four are the other major protagonists in Arya’s story, that’s not too surprising.)

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    30. Tron79,

      Yay! I’m so glad to hear your thoughts on HDM! Agree with a lot of this and I’m interested in Wimsey’s perspective too! I’d be interested in a compare/contrast with Arya and Lyra! 🙂

      At the same time, I think Lyra is also a lot like Mrs Coulter in a few ways — namely their ability to lie 🙂

      I’m really interested to hear your thoughts on the next two books!

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    31. Wimsey: My 11 year old son has not read the books and he has had next to no problem understanding the show.(And, yes, I obviously like to think that my F1 is a super-genius: but, realistically, I doubt that he has any special talents where all of this is concerned.)At any rate, no adaptation of a book for TV or film ever assumes that the audience has read the book: on the contrary, even for Harry Potter, the film-makers knew that the audience had to be >5X the book readership if the films were to be successful.And, of course, no other adapted book or book-series in recent history has anything like the readership that Harry Potter had.(Lord of the Rings probably had more overall readers by the time the film came out: but a large proportion of them had died in the 50 years since the books had come out, and many more had not read the books in so long that they had next to no memory of what happened in the books.)

      As for who Lyra is like, her similarities with Arya are pretty superficial.Yes, they have strong independent streaks relative to other women in their world: but their worlds are so different that it cannot help but to have generated different people.Moreover, the stories are very different from one another: and it’s rare that protagonists from very different stories will be all that similar.After all, the mere fact that the stories are different tells us that the dynamic development will be different, and 9 times out of about 9, the basic development will be of different people, too.(Arya has much more in common with Jon, Daenerys, Bran and Tyrion than with Lyra: but, then, as those four are the other major protagonists in Arya’s story, that’s not too surprising.)

      You make some interesting GOT comparisons.

      I was able to follow the show but the book gave more details. For example:

      The guillotine in the show seemed silly. I understood what it was supposed to do but it seemed more like a metaphor than science. In the books they explained the science behind it. The type of metal used in the blade had a certain effect on the connection between the daemon and the person. It just made more sense to me after reading the book why it would work. I took the leap in the show that it did what it did but the book described the process much more scientifically.

      Another example is how the church is portrayed. The book was more direct in comparing the magisterium to the Catholic Church. It even talks about a pope and other Catholic elements. The show uses a unique logo instead of a cross and even though the comparison may look obvious, it’s not as direct as in the books. The show just touches the surface imho. Perhaps HBO was trying not to offend Catholics as much. I just thought the book was more direct about it and explained more. In the show I could assume they were priests. They were talking about original sin after all. But the show seemed like they were making a new religion with its own logo loosely based on Catholicism. The book was unapologetic and more direct.

      I’ll write more about GOT comparisons later. Have to go for now.

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    32. Ten Bears:
      firstone,

      So… that’s where spaced-out BirdBrain disappeared to in S8e3? Makes sense!

      Are we even watching the same show? Are you that clueless?????? You need to watch season 6 again. The 3ER told Bran not to stay gone too long or you will get stuck… “Make sense”? Maybe Bran stayed out too long in S8 E3 and got stuck in the wierwood tree space? The Old Man can’t bring Bran back safe (in time before he gets stuck) because the Old Man 3ER Died in S6 E5. But no that couldn’t happen because I said it, right? I don’t what you got against me… Every time you comment on my opinion it is negative, you don’t even give it a chance. Regarding the whole story is Bran’s POV…. The 3ER told Bran he “needs to learn”…. Bran ask… “learn what?” The 3ER says “Everything” The whole GOT story is “everything”…. But my theory can’t be right because GOT is finished…. S6E2 The Sparrow ask Jaime “Do you know why we use these stones? To remind us not to fear death. We close our eyes on this world and open them on the next.” “Welcome Home my Queen”

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    33. firstone,

      But no that couldn’t happen because I said it, right? I don’t what you got against me… Every time you comment on my opinion it is negative, you don’t even give it a chance…”

      You’re just joking, I hope. I liked your alternative explanation (re: Bran). I was not mocking it. I have not commented negatively on any of your opinions, to my recollection. If something I wrote came out the wrong way, I apologize.

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    34. Adrianacandle:
      Tron79,

      Yay! I’m so glad to hear your thoughts on HDM! Agree with a lot of this and I’m interested in Wimsey’s perspective too! I’d be interested in a compare/contrast with Arya and Lyra!

      At the same time, I think Lyra is also a lot like Mrs Coulter in a few ways — namely their ability to lie

      I’m really interested to hear your thoughts on the next two books!

      Thanks. I look forward to starting book two shortly…
      It was interesting that they included a little of book 2 in the show since they introduced Will Parry already. Since he wasn’t in the book yet and he was in the sample chapter for book 2, I realized they used some of book 2 in season 1.

      I like that Arya and Lyra are almost the same letters! Just replace the L with the A.
      Arya learned how to lie as well. A big part of her training was to make a lie totally believable. However, for Arya, to be able to lie convincingly, she first had to tell her self the truth. She had to learn more about herself by taking a hard look at herself in the mirror of the Waif. Arya thought she was telling the truth, until the Waif made her realize she was not being honest with herself. So in GOT it was interesting that in order to be a convincing liar, you first had to be totally honest.

      Lyra also known as “silvertongue” got her new name because she was a clever convincing liar. She had some similarities with Mrs. Coulter, but she wasn’t cold hearted yet. Mrs. Coulter was charming and beautiful on the outside, but cold metal on the inside. I forget the exact way the book described her, but she had a metallic smell to her, which was describing her cold calculating side.

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    35. Adrianacandle:
      Tron79,

      Yay! I’m so glad to hear your thoughts on HDM! Agree with a lot of this and I’m interested in Wimsey’s perspective too! I’d be interested in a compare/contrast with Arya and Lyra!

      At the same time, I think Lyra is also a lot like Mrs Coulter in a few ways — namely their ability to lie

      I’m really interested to hear your thoughts on the next two books!

      also, I am really struck by similarities in GOT and HDM to Arya/Lyra’s book persona as compared to the show persona. I mentioned this a little bit already, but book Arya talks and acts more like Aladdin the “street rat”. Her diction is rougher and she does things like eating worms. In the show, even though she definitely doesn’t want to be a lady, she still has more “castle upbringing” in her. I don’t think you would see show Arya surviving on worms as willingly. She doesn’t mind getting in the mud and fighting, but she still talks in proper castle English most of the time. Well, eventually she gets with the Hound and she starts talking more “street”. For Lyra, she talks much more “street” in the books. Dafne Keen is always talking in very proper Cambridge English. Book Lyra sounds more ‘Gyptian with her dialogue, such as her use of “Aint” in her normal dialogue, but it’s often abbreviated as ‘ent or something even shorter than a full “Aint”. As I said previously, show Arya is more put together fashion wise. Maisie rocks whatever she wears. Her season 7/8 costumes were amazing. It was a cross between a samurai and a musketeer. Book Arya never looked put together. She looked skinny and was often called horseface. She had oversized boots, and I could go on and on. Book Arya was definitely not a fashion icon and seemed like she would be more comfortable on Flea Bottom than in a castle imho.

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    36. Tron79,

      Sure, the book explains those things. But: so what? It has zero effect on the story or the plot. Remember, books have to describe things to make up for the fact that they cannot show things. Because pictures really do paint 1000s of words, it was quite obvious what the guillotine was doing on the show: the mystical engineering behind it is very much beside the point. (And, no: it did not lose detail: after all, ever knob, button, wire, etc., that they showed us was a detail that the books lacked; cinematic details simply are different from literary details, with neither superior to the other.)

      The critical thing here is that this device is going to put Lyra (and Roger) in a certain set of ethical quandaries. The decisions that she’s going to make as a result are what is going to deliver the story. In the end, there will be some analog of the Dresden/Hiroshima choice (although it’s very different because this is a very different story): and we’ll know why Lyra and Roger make their choices because of what how they react to things like this.

      The only other thing about which to worry here is theme. Unlike GoT, Dark Materials is a heavily thematic work: and as the first season made quite clear, the theme is that religion is an evil in and of itself. (Pullman has been quite outspoken about his disdain for organized religion!) But, again: how the soul-severing works is not important, it’s that the soul-severing exists (and that religious people so badly misunderstand and fear the very thing that they purport to understand so well) that is important to the theme.

        Quote  Reply

    37. Wimsey:
      Tron79,

      Sure, the book explains those things.But: so what?It has zero effect on the story or the plot.Remember, books have to describe things to make up for the fact that they cannot show things.Because pictures really do paint 1000s of words, it was quite obvious what the guillotine was doing on the show: the mystical engineering behind it is very much beside the point.(And, no: it did not lose detail: after all, ever knob, button, wire, etc., that they showed us was a detail that the books lacked; cinematic details simply are different from literary details, with neither superior to the other.)

      The critical thing here is that this device is going to put Lyra (and Roger) in a certain set of ethical quandaries.The decisions that she’s going to make as a result are what is going to deliver the story.In the end, there will be some analog of the Dresden/Hiroshima choice (although it’s very different because this is a very different story): and we’ll know why Lyra and Roger make their choices because of what how they react to things like this.

      The only other thing about which to worry here is theme.Unlike GoT, Dark Materials is a heavily thematic work: and as the first season made quite clear, the theme is that religion is an evil in and of itself.(Pullman has been quite outspoken about his disdain for organized religion!)But, again: how the soul-severing works is not important, it’s that the soul-severing exists (and that religious people so badly misunderstand and fear the very thing that they purport to understand so well) that is important to the theme.

      I hear what you are saying about seeing the picture. For me though it made a big difference after reading the descriptions in the book. When I saw the guilotene in the show I thought it looked silly and it took me out of the world. It started feeling more like a kid story instead of a fantasy. Yes I did understand themes but it’s important for me to feel like I can believe the world I’m being shown. It just moved to the absurd when I saw the giant guilotene. After reading the book, I could see there was actually a scientific reason for it and it had to do with the way that particular metal affected the daemon/person bond. It may seem like a small thing to you but it made the world of difference for me. It wasn’t just some big metaphorical daemon chopper. In a way with the knowledge people learned from the garden of Eden Apple they were able to invent horrible machines like the daemon guillotine. Another scene was when Lyra used her tin as a decoy for the alethiometerer with Mrs Coulter. I missed in the show if they had a scene with Iorek making the decoy for Lyra. In the book it was very clear. It just cleared up some things for me when I was scratching my head in the show wondering how something just happened. There were several scenes like this for me in the show.

      Overall though it was a very loyal adaptation. The whole religion theme is interesting to me since I work at a synagogue. GOT also had religious themes and how religion can intertwine with power and politics.

        Quote  Reply

    38. Adrianacandle:
      Tron79,

      I agree with a lot of what you’ve said! I’m sorry for the lateness in my response, I had forgotten to check this thread X_X

      I feel like I need to write an essay about religion in GOT. I’m going to think about it.
      It’s interesting about the 7. In Judaism even though there is one God, there are many names for God that describe different aspects. There are more than 7 names. I vote for THOBAW’s religion with their Many Faced God. I loved the idea that they incorporated everyone’s God into one Many Faced God. When different cultures came to Braavos, their god became part of the Many Faced God. I love the idea that they were all just different names for the same God. This was explained more in the book than the show, and I really appreciated the extra explanation. One of these days I may write more detail about GOT and religion. I do get angry when people interpret what they think God meant by something written thousands of years ago and justify inhumane actions… OK. I’ll write more on my soapbox another day.

        Quote  Reply

    39. Tron79,

      ”It’s interesting about the 7. In Judaism even though there is one God, there are many names for God that describe different aspects. There are more than 7 names. I vote for THOBAW’s religion with their Many Faced God….”

      There is only one God. And his name is … Hashem.

        Quote  Reply

    40. Tron79: Thanks…just watched…and I’m weepy…
      I loved the story Maisie told about Rory going to the gym and giving up drinking only to find he didn’t have to take his shirt off after all….

      I’m still in the middle of watching. Lots of teary-eyed faces.

        Quote  Reply

    41. Tron79,

      It’s interesting about the 7. In Judaism even though there is one God, there are many names for God that describe different aspects. There are more than 7 names. I vote for THOBAW’s religion with their Many Faced God. I loved the idea that they incorporated everyone’s God into one Many Faced God. When different cultures came to Braavos, their god became part of the Many Faced God. I love the idea that they were all just different names for the same God.

      That’s a really cool connection! I’m interested in more of your thoughts on this topic with GoT and religion. And as you move forward through HDM, I’m really curious to hear your thoughts — especially with the religious aspects. I want to say more but I don’t want to spoil you 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    42. Adrianacandle:
      Tron79,

      That’s a really cool connection! I’m interested in more of your thoughts on this topic with GoT and religion. And as you move forward through HDM, I’m really curious to hear your thoughts — especially with the religious aspects. I want to say more but I don’t want to spoil you 🙂

      Thanks! I haven’t felt as motivated as I did reading ASOIAF but it’s a quick read once I dig into it and Pullam really is clear and straightforward with his descriptions which I appreciate. I’m about 50 pages into book 2. Hopefully this week I will make some progress. It will be nice to know what happens before the show happens for once! I worry that their filming is done quickly enough so Dafne Keen doesn’t age too much. It seems an important part of the story is for her to be young. Perhaps in the last book she makes the transition to being a grown up and her daemon will settle. No spoilers 🙂 but I have to think that’s a big risk with doing a multi season show that depends so much on Dafne being young Lyra. GOT was very fortunate with Maisie, Sophie, and Isaac. And it worked that they were allowed to age as part of the story. But I remember how Maisie had emotional issues with having to wear a strap to hide that she was growing up faster than the show wanted. And she was so thankful to finally get a new costume in braavos. I remember cursing the screen that Arya May never stop sweeping THOBAW. But all that time I was screaming, Maisie was thrilled she could finally wear a new costume and she didn’t have to wear that strap anymore. I’ll report back about the religious aspects once I get through the books. Did you ever see the Netflix series Juana Inés? I found myself totally immersed in Juana’s world as she endured her time as a Nun in the Catholic Church. She pursued studies that were forbidden for women. Once you get past the subtitles it was a very memorable watch. I think the subtitles made me pay even closer attention to her journey. Politics, religion and the role of women were in full display, and it was quite disturbing.

        Quote  Reply

    43. I’m a little sad there’s not much posted here new. I’ve been checking back for new articles. I did get GOT PJ’s for my birthday yesterday so that was awesome. Is there any prequel news or any other GOT news out there?

        Quote  Reply

    44. As noted many times, above, shooting fake scenes and endings would have cost far too much money. However, the producers did employ a subterfuge to keep everyone guessing:

      “It’s very hard to keep the cast quiet, because when in Spain, you must eat and drink. So, they’re going to be out and about, and so we brought out a few ringers,” “GoT” Executive Producer Bernadette Caulfield said on the documentary, which aired Sunday.

      The decoy actors included Kit Harington (who played Jon Snow); Vladimir Furdik (The Night King); as well as Faye Marsay and Tom Wlaschiha (The Waif and Jaqen H’ghar, respectively, of the Faceless Men), who we haven’t seen on the show since season six.

      https://www.insider.com/game-of-thrones-documentary-actors-on-set-final-season-leaks-2019-5

        Quote  Reply

    45. Tron79

      ”… And she was so thankful to finally get a new costume in braavos. I remember cursing the screen that Arya May never stop sweeping THOBAW. But all that time I was screaming, Maisie was thrilled she could finally wear a new costume and she didn’t have to wear that strap anymore.”

      ————
      This was the new costume highlight for me. (S7e4) After 6+ years of Arya in rags and robes, I was delighted to see Arya all cleaned up, with a new hairdo, form fitting costume and kickass boots – oh, and her dagger on one hip and Needle on the other. 👸🏻

      The moment she enters the courtyard is at 0:20 of the video clip.

      Arya Brienne S7e4

        Quote  Reply

    46. Ten Bears:
      Tron79

      ”… And she was so thankful to finally get a new costume in braavos. I remember cursing the screen that Arya May never stop sweeping THOBAW. But all that time I was screaming, Maisie was thrilled she could finally wear a new costume and she didn’t have to wear that strap anymore.”

      ————
      This was the new costume highlight for me. (S7e4) After 6+ years of Arya in rags and robes, I was delighted to see Arya all cleaned up, with a new hairdo, form fitting costume and kickass boots – oh, and her dagger on one hip and Needle on the other. 👸🏻

      The moment she enters the courtyard is at 0:20 of the video clip.

      Arya Brienne S7e4

      Didn’t she have gloves like those in Dr. Who too? I loved the costume in your clip. As I said somewhere, it was a cross between a musketeer and a samurai warrior.

        Quote  Reply

    47. Ten Bears,

      Also I would love it if Maisie guest starred in The new Star Trek series Picard. Picard fences well and he has a young romulan samarai guy who protects him. Maisie could definitely show up somewhere and fit right in. Perhaps a Dr Who crossover would be cool or she fell through a weirwood tree portal to find herself with Picard. Perhaps only in my dreams but it would be cool.

        Quote  Reply

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