The photos for Daznak’s Pit being shot in Osuna are coming in hot and fast. We posted some images on Sunday, Oct 19th in “New photos of Game of Thrones filming in Osuna’s bullring“ but without clear facial shots it was hard to determine if they were actually Emilia Clarke as Dany and her retinue. However, WotW can now confirm that they were indeed doubles. The slideshow after the cut shows their faces so it is finally clear. This is in contrast to our post from yesterday, which showed the real actors on a review stand watching fighting below.
Clearly the Daznak Pit scene will be important and large in scope as they are taking the time to make some long shots with doubles and crowds, medium shots and close-up reaction shots with the real actors, multi-person fight scenes and, as noted before, a massive green screen. It has all the right ingredients to become an iconic scene for the show.
MAJOR SPOILERS after the cut!
Thanks to WotW reader Alikat for submitting the photos!
In my opinion this makes it more clear that Tyrion is, in fact, meant to be sitting near Daenerys, Missandei, and Hizdar, as opposed to just hanging out with the actors in between takes, or while he’s not needed elsewhere.
Kyle,
totally agreed. He must be in Hizdar’s service somehow noting the similarities in costume.
Waiting for them to meet! 🙂
This would be the best case scenario. It allows
This confirms that Dinklage was just not sitting around in a chair. That’s where Tyrion will be seated.
Turncloak,
Am I missing something? Everyone assumes he’s in disguise. Fine, that may be true and I’m coming around to the idea. But everyone’s reasoning for it is that Dany would kill him if she knew who he is. Okay… what? Is not not assumed by pretty much everyone that Tyrion will survive his encounter with Daenerys in TWOW? Does anybody believe otherwise? Presumably, when Tyrion reveals himself in TWOW, Dany will want to kill him and he will be all ‘clever old Tyrion’ about it and save himself. So, why not do that now?
There may be narrative reasons to hide Tyrion’s identity, but Daenerys wanting to kill him is not one of them; nobody expects Tyrion to die when it happens in the books, so… just take that moment, to which D&D have access, and put it in this scene.
What’s the problem exactly? What am I missing?
That is, unless in TWOW Tyrion does not reveal himself. GRRM has said they will have a sort of meeting, but maybe Dany doesn’t know he’s Tyrion Lannister. In that case, yeah, they’d just be taking that later book moment and putting it earlier on the show.
I cannot describe how thrilled I am to FINALLY have someone from Westeros interacting with D any. Feels like we’ve been waiting forever.
Yet another sign that D&D are speeding things up a bit for the show. I agree Dany on a dragons back will happen but I don’t know if they’ll bother with her detour back to the grasslands or let her stay for the Battle of Maureen and aftermath. We will definitely be getting Winds material next season.
Thank god they are cutting out a lot of the to’ing and fro’ing and just bringing these characters together. Folk who treat the books as some inerrant bible will be annoyed no doubt, but I’m happy I don’t need to watch a season of characters stalling on their way from A to B.
I’m so excited to see my favorite characters of the whole show interact. It will be awesome! Can’t wait! But do you think that this scene will be in ep 9 or ep 10??
DaenerysTyrion,
If one was to say that they merged Brown Ben Plumm and Hizdahr, one wouldn’t be wrong completely. Which, imho, isn’t that bad of a deal.
Seeing the doubles is always so strange. It’s like Diet Danaerys or a store-brand Tyrion. Close, but not quite the same.
Luka Nieto,
I am very intrigued by how Tyrion gains Dany/Hizdahr’s trust (and/or access) and how Jorah ends up in the pit. Does Tyrion betray Jorah or is this a grand ploy by both or does the world know that Tyrion killed Tywin? I believe Selmy is the key. We must know!
Luka Nieto,
I always figured that once Dany finds out that Tyrion killed Tywin, she’d warm up to him a bit. She’s going to recognize that she needs someone who is experienced with Westrosi politics. Someone who knows dirt on everyone. Jorah and Barristan can’t do that.
Luka Nieto,
Yes, thanks, it’s the same that I thought. Maybe “Las Canteras De Osuna”, which is desert, is for Dany’s last scene of the season.
DaenerysTyrion,
It’s a quarry, not a desert (that’s what cantera means.) It doesn’t even look like a desert, certainly not the Red Waste from Season 2.
Turncloak,
So… if you’re willing to make that assumption for the book, why not for the show? Nobody’s saying he’ll just “waltz in there.” Why do you think that he couldn’t just execute a similar (or similarly clever and effective) ploy as whatever he will do in TWOW?
Here’s something people seem to not be considering: Baristan Selmy knows who Tyrion is. There is no way Tyrion could lie about his identity if Baristan is around. I know we don’t seem him in any of these pictures, but presumably he is around somewhere. Unless of course the show changes things so dramatically wherein Barristan is sent off somewhere else, or God Forbid, is killed off.
Akton Tamko,
Hm, you make a good point, I didn’t think about that. I doubt they’d kill him off (or at least I really hope not). Perhaps in reference to my own comment,
Of course, only if D&D are staying somewhat true to the books. It would be completely desperate and selfish of Dany, but who knows?
Fake Daario 3 looks like a goofball.
As i estimate that Barristan is killed in TWoW (this Knight deserves to die on battlefield), we probably have to assume, that D&D clarify this arc earlier…
Dany’s double is soo hot!
Anyone knows her name?
It’s possible Ser Selmy does inform Dany of Tyrion’s identity-but Selmy might also be able to attest that Tyrion is in no way representative of the rest of his family and word of Tyrion’s killing Tywin might have make it to Mereen by then anyway. Selmy might make the case that Tyrion could be more use in Dany’s service as someone who could inform her about Westeros.
Wow, the GoT team is really taking George Lucas’s mantra “Faster, and more intense” to heart. Viewers will be exhausted by all the plot developments in Season 5.
Okay guys I got really excited thinking about this so I’ve come up with what I think will happen :
Tyrion is put into the fighting pit initially perhaps even fighting a lion or whatever. Then dany decides that this is unfair and calls it off bringing tyrion up to her side. Ser jorah is waiting in the lower audience and realises that tyrion has escaped his captivity and feels almost jealous of him gaining danys side so he jumps out into the ring and calls out to daenerys. Hizdahr, believing that dany is hurt by jorahs presence, names jorah as a pit fighter and lowers the gates to allow others in to fight him. Jorah slays most men and falls to the ground as he struggles with one man. This man is then killed by a mightier warrior who comes forth to slay jorah. At this moment drogon arrives and burns the man and eats him. What happens after this I’ve no idea
Blaqfyre,
And what if while they are at the pit, Greyworm and Barristan are trying to protect Rhaegal and Viserion from some maesters/Sons of the Harpy/Yunkish that are trying to kill them? And accidentaly the dragons are loose, and Greyworm get killed? I dont really believe this, but I could see that happening to cause more tension and advance some book plots.
Knowing Jorah, I wouldn’t be surprised by this. In Jorah’s mind, here’s yet another man to fight for Dany’s attention. Jorah might later regret taking Tyrion in the first place when he realizes that his original plan has backfired. Instead of regaining his status, Jorah will lose his place in Dany’s life entirely.
clk,
I could definitely believe that they may be protecting the dragons, but I still find either of their deaths in this upcoming season unnecessary. Grey Worm more than Barristan simply because of the shows addition of his and Missandei’s “relationship”. Honestly, I love all of the characters in this storyline (although I could certainly live without Daario), and I’d hate to see any of them get killed off so early…especially considering
.
BaelorBalerionBaelish,
I think that it’s going to happen like you said. I really would love to, because I really want to see Tyrion and Dany intercat, but I want to see Tyrion’s show in the pit too, so this is a good way to have both things.
Blaqfyre,
I’m becoming more and more convinced they will kill Grey Worm. In a way I think his relationship with Missandei is to serve as a function to create extra distress after his death. I just think that D&D miight want to kill off a character in Meereen, because no-one in Daenerys’ entourage has died since Season 2. I just get the impresion that they might want to create extra tension, and sense of dread for Daenerys, and Grey Worm is prrobably the easiest one to kill.
Maybe something like that is going to happen.
I think the stunt doubles need their own wacky spoof GoT comedy show.
If anyone can talk his way out of a potentially fatal situation, it’s Tyrion Lannister!!! I agree once Daenerys hears he is sent by Illyrio and that he killed Tywin, this might save him- plus he’s extremely useful!! Once he is on Team Dany, he can be her source of stragey/info on the KL court. Ser Barristan is still useful though since he knew Aerys and Rhaegar well, and that is key to Daenerys understanding who she is. If if if, and I hope they don’t, they kill Ser Barristan (#SilverFox) in season 5, I am hoping it will not be before he and Dany have a heart to heart about her family.
Lucius Alexandros,
You know, I’m not opposed to the idea…it certainly would be in Jorah’s character to get into the ring under those circumstances. But I don’t want to see his character killed off, I just wouldn’t recover lol. Also to Jeb, that could certainly be a huge possibility, but if I remember correctly, that episode will be one of the first and I can’t see them killing off Grey Worm so early. I imagine they will want to really expand on Dany’s desperatatiom especially concerning Daario’s return at the start of the season anyway.
Winnie,
This is what I was thinking too. Tyrion was constantly at odds with Joffrey, even standing up for Sansa and Selmy would have seen quite a lot of that, right?
Blaqfyre,
Yeah, I looked and it is episode 4, which is about two or three episodes early. If they do kill him, I bet it will be him sacrificing himself to save Missandei or something along those lines.
If this comes true, I won’t be cocky about this at all, haha… If not, well none of us truely know what goes on inside D&D’s heads!
One thing is certain though; Daenerys will have her best material since Season 1, so they better do it right, especially this scene.
Jeb,
I couldn’t agree more! Which is why I’m nearly stressing about this…they’ve really neglected her storyline for a while, and I couldn’t bear it if they did it again.
And please, if you’re right then you have permission to gloat! 🙂
Dame Pasty,
No. Selmy was released from the King’s Guard and left King’s Landing while Tyrion was with his Father’s army for the Battle of the Green Fork, or making his way out of the Vale. Selmy witnessed none of Tyrion’s reign as Hand, his conflicts with Joffrey, and would likely only know Tyrion as the clever, dwarf son of Tywin, brother of Cersei, that occasionally made Robert laugh while he was drunk.
Selmy would recognise him, because I assume Tyrion did spend time at Court before Jon Arryn’s death and the books/show started, so Selmy has most likely met him before. But I don’t think he’ll know Tyrion as the “good” character the readers/viewers know him as… just a kinslaying, kingslaying dwarf son of Tywin Lannister, one of the Kingslayer brothers in fact… and we know how Selmy views the man who profaned his blade with the blood of the King he was sworn to protect.
Because the show is on a time crunch and they sometimes throw logic out the window (No one from the Vale gave a damn that Arya *ucking Stark was at their doorstep)
I wrote an off-topic comment that seems to have either not posted or disappeared. I hate it when that happens – especially since it was a little on the lengthy side!
Anyway, check out this tweet from Eugene Simon (Lancel Lannister). He’d been missing from Twitter for the two weeks prior to that tweet, published on October 10th. This timeframe corresponds to when he was supposedly filming in Dubrovnik, according to spy reports. Eugene states he’s been filming something, and whatever it is will air in Spring 2015. Could this be Season 5 of Game of Thrones? The tweet makes it seem like he’s currently filming, so perhaps he’s in Ireland filming at the studio?
Ser Florian,
Well, darn it! I was hoping he could testify on his behalf. It’s going to be really tense when she figures out who Tyrion is. /rubbing hands gleefully
Kyle,
The supposed script summary leaks of ep 1-3, which are looking more and more real, may interest you with regard to Lancel…
Could someone with a Twitter account ask Philip McGinley (who plays Anguy) if he’ll be back this season? This should pretty much tell us if the Brotherhood is in or out.
https://twitter.com/philipmcginley
Turncloak,
That’s something that only Dany haters will believe. Dany wouldn’t kill him. He is valuable alive, and since he delivers himself to her he is at least worth the listen, for her to see what he wants. Would she immediately admit him to her inner circle, hell no. Would she put him in a cell? Possibly. Would she kill him? No way.
I agree completely. I was going to say the same thing but you beat me to it. The last time Tyrion and Selmy would have seen each other would have been prior to the events of Season 1 (they’ve never been on screen together during the course of the show). It’s unlikely that Selmy would think that highly of him. I see three options here; A) Selmy does get sent off somewhere, and perhaps could take Daario’s place as the hostage B) Tyrion somehow talks Selmy into not giving him away, though I’m not sure how he’d pull that off or C) Tyrion is honest about his identity and either charms his way into Dany’s graces or perhaps is taken as some kind of servant to try and prove his loyalty
Luka Nieto,
Dany’s scenes post-Daznak are in the Dothraki sea, not in a desert. I imagine they’ll film that in Ireland.
jentario,
True, I remembered that completely wrong. She went North to the Dothraki Sea, not East to the Red Waste. Huh. Yeah, obviously, I mean —she meets Dothraki. That was a big brainfart.
Jeb,
I’m hoping that his absense from the Pit means nothing, though, because I’d really want him to do what he did in the end of ADWD early in season 6. On Grey Worm, I think he might actually be there and that we can’t see him (there are a lot of Unsullied, that’s for sure).
Kyle,
I hope this means Lancel is back! Not that he’s my favorite or anything (obvi, Jaime 😉 ) but it seems a waste to develop him in previous seasons then toss him, with the rise of the Faith Militant it would be silly not to bring him back! I hope by proxy this means we should not give up hope for Kevan??
Does anyone have Dany’s double’s email address? She left something on set, and I need to return it to her hotel room…
Dany did crucify masters without caring which ones were responsible for the children crucifixions. What’s to stop her from saying “I will kill x amounts of Lannisters according to how many Targaryens died due to Tywin’s actions” ? She is very impulsive
Tyrion: not killed, he is a valuable hostage, who perhaps is going to HELP Dany in her challenge of the Cersi lead House Lannister.
Selmy / Mormont: If you don’t see Barristan soon, he may have been killed in battle. His book role will be picked up by Ian Glen’s Jorah who fights his way back into Dany’s good graces, and perhaps kills Hizdar to regain command of her armies as they transition to Westeros in late 5 early 6.
Dany: After the loss of Selmy and one hopes Greyworm, and a falling outwith Dario she is scrambling for new beta orbiters. She gets married to one, imprisons another (Tyrion) and likewise lets Jorah back into her life. Ultimately she is convinced to abandon Essos and pursue Westeros.
Active factions as we approach the publication of the new book / end of Season 5:
1) Stannis / Jon / Davos – they crush the Ironborn in Season 5
2) Lannister / Bolton / Frey – They are pretty much doomed in the end.
3) Varys / Dorne
4) Dany / Tyrion / Jorah
5) Baelish / Vale
6) Whitewalkers
Looks to be exciting if one can overlook some of the Xena vibes out of Dorne.
Tyrion say’s ” oh btw I just killed my dad Tywin Lannister … insta BFF
But in all seriousness Dany wants to conquer the seven kingdoms , she needs highborns from the big houses backing her up , in return for Tyrion’s loyalty she can put him in charge of Casterly Rock. ( obviously pure speculation)
Turncloak,
She then allowed Hizdar to bury his father, and had the other corpses taken down… then changed her mind about killing all of the Yunkish and sent Hizdar as an emissary, rather than Daario as a killer… She dealt pragmatically with the former slaves seeking a return to their former conditions as well. She has been impulsive, yes, but I think we’ve begun to see that being tempered now.
I don’t know when this would come out, but isn’t Tyrion more informed on dragon lore than pretty much anyone in Westeros or Essos? That could certainly be a reason, in addition to the ones others have stated, to keep Tyrion around.
Dame Pasty,
Barristan stormed off before Ned was killed, so he didn’t get to see Tyrion as the Hand in King’s Landing
Looks like there is also a Dothraki in the Pit with Jorah and the others: http://gameofthronesfan.org/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=63608&fullsize=1
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Could come out in conversation between Varys and him, or Jorah and him, on their travels… that he always wanted a Dragon, and that he’s read every book about them, that he knows how they’ll grow and why they cook their food etc.
Other thing I thought was languages. Could Hizdar buy Tyrion to act as a translator? His version of Missandei? Maybe he wants to learn the Common Tongue of Westeros for Dany. Don’t think it’s ever been mentioned that Tyrion is good with languages, but he’s smart, high-born and educated, a quick study… they could work it in I’m sure.
For people still trying to figure out the tyrion-dany thing well picture this… After Joeffreys death news travelled to Mereen … Now that Tywin is dead and TYRION has escaped u think Cersie isn’t gonna make sure every man woman and tree all across westeros and essos isn’t going to know that TYRION killed Tywin … I see it more as “hi I’m TYRION” dany-“kill him” tyrion-“but I killed my a*****e of a father the douche who was responsible for the sack of ure fathers kingdom ” dany-” keep him alive and give him a dragon souvenir …am I not the coolest khaleesi , mother of dragons breaker of chains titles titles titles Eva high five daario . Now get back to work “
Turncloak,
She is impulsive when shit is extremely personal. The children on the signs were a direct Fuck You from Meereen that cost 100 and something innocent children their lives. Dany felt obligated to kill an equal amount of Masters more to show the rest of them who they’re dealing with than for outright revenge. Yes, she is impulsive- though I think you are blowing it out of proportion, her move with the Masters was one of a kind IMO- but in season 4 Dany is repeatedly shown that killing the Masters was a big mistake (after Barristan’s warning, Hizdahr’s speech about his father and Jorah’s recounting of it later on in reference to killing the Masters of Yunkai). Dany learned a lesson, and she won’t be doing that again.
And as I said, the situation is entirely different. Did the Masters of Meereen travel half a world just to meet Dany and serve her? Nope. Were the Masters of Meereen extremely valuable to Dany’s conquering of Westeros because they are the effective heir to one of the seven high houses of Westeros?
Dany won’t just blindly kill Tyrion. She won’t. Especially if this is before the Daznak Pit, which is the case we are speaking of (let’s not forget that she was a very different Dany than the “Fire and Blood” Dany who conquered Meereen, and only returns after her detour with Drogon).
The Tyrion-Dany thing, from the way that Tyrion is dressed and where he’s sat, makes me think that he isn’t in Dany’s “possession”… He’s Hizdar’s pet or slave or butler or whatever. So, I don’t think his identity will have been revealed to Dany by this point, as she would likely take him off Hizdar’s hands if she knew who he was.
Sansa’s Knight,
That was great, thanks 🙂
busmans,
does anyone has the links to these supposed leaks of the 3 first episodes? I’m curious, thanks.
busmans,
Fake fake fake. Absolutely fake. Some great guesswork- and hell, most of it will turn out true (because most of the “leak” was based on scenes we already knew were happening, or were expected). There are a few things there, though, that are obviously wrong (such as the whole “Dorne sends Cersei a threat” thing).
Script leaks just don’t happen. Any fan can follow news on WOTW, connect the dots and then post a summary of it with some extra details. If I were to create a leak myself, you would all believe it.
You miss the key difference. Those guys were slavers, so whether or not they were personally responsible for the crucifixions is academic. They enslave men, women and children, and deserve to die. Her righteous fury is reserved primarily for those who are wicked on an egregious scale. I don’t think Tyrion fits that description, no matter who his family is.
And Dany is not very impulsive at all. She makes very calculated judgments – sometimes quickly, and sometimes slowly. In the case of the slavers of Meereen, she judged that in order to demonstrate that the old regime was dead, she had to make an example of the slavers. That’s only “impulsive,” IMO, if you treat her as a mere silly little girl, which at least in the show, she has proven she is NOT. Her speech and actions before the gates of Meereen (and in Astapor) should have put that notion to rest.
For those who complained yesterday about Tyrion not having his scar in those pics. Here he is from the same photographer in Daznak’s with his scar very visible.
Ed,
I asked away.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Yes! I’ve been saying this over and over but nobody seems to notice. I think his knowledge of dragons will be crucial in the end and will be why Dany ends up keeping him alive and close to her.
jentario,
I know…I forgot. I gotta quit smoking all that wacky weed or drinking….or both.
“They enslave men, women and children, and deserve to die”
Please tell me you see what’s wrong with this statement.
Turncloak,
why not include the whole conversation after she says this …she Changes her Mind after jorah convinced her
and she will never say such a thing in book ..the crucification was done because of what the slavers did to the children and not because they are slavers ..an act of revenge which is what it was …if she wanted to kill all the slavers she would never let the yunkaii masters live and all other meereen nobles alive …
and again that while hizdar father is innocent is show only and I hope its way we got intro to hizdar and next season shows that what he told was a lie and he is trying to manipulate danny
I am discussing Dany’s moral compass, not mine (which is irrelevant). For Dany, the sin of being a slaver is punishable by death. That’s understandable (and even admirable), even if you disagree with it.
And for the record, I do believe that the crime of enslaving human beings, at least in today’s context (and yes, slavery remains a modern issue), should be met with the harshest penalty possible. Though as someone who is not a proponent of the death penalty, I would favor life imprisonment.
We wouldn’t be where we are today if some historical leaders didn’t decide to kill as a means of ending the practice. Abraham Lincoln is one of those leaders, even if his primary motive was preservation of the Union. Without a war, and without a violent defeat, the southern states were not likely to ever give it up.
Personally, I think Dany is one of the most admirable leaders in the series. She is both honorable and effective (the latter quality was not shared by Ned Stark). At least she was until books 4 and 5, where her decisions become increasingly questionable. It’s as if her intelligence and passion suddenly and dramatically regressed.
ArgonathofBraavos,
Murdering people without trial is in no way responsible or admirable, it’s barbaric.
Turncloak,
I don’t think due process is really as stringent a moral code in Daenerys’ context as it is in ours. There are trials in Westeros, but I see little moral distinction between the sham trials of Westeros and the lack of trials in Daenerys’ situation. I’m not saying that the right to a fair trial is something to scoff at, but it’s not really something I personally judge Daenerys for ignoring given the context.
I don’t think anyone judged Robb for executing Karstark without much of a trial. I don’t see any reason to judge Daenerys more harshly on that specific point. The main priblem with what she did was doing it arbitrarily, not really distinguishing the slavers most responsible for things like the mass crucifixions from those whose worst crime was…well, owning people, which is still pretty bad.
Hodor Targaryen,
Just think how the story would have turned if Ned would have used a rational judicial process to determine if Gared was just another NW deserter or truly scared out of his gourd and senses by what he had recently witnessed….I thought that execution was a bit harsh by good ol’ Ned. Oh, Karma is a nasty mistress.
Awesome!!!! Hopefully that means they’re finally back :3
Turncloak,
Yeah, this is true. People have to understand that in the Slaver’s Bay, slaves are an entirely normal thing and have been for hundreds of years. To come in and punish people for it with a death sentence is completely unjust. That said, Dany did no such thing in Astapor and Yunkai- when the fighting was done, she let the Masters be. In Meereen, it was in reaction to the children that the slavers as a whole decided to crucify in order to piss off Dany. They even sent the Challenger of Meereen in later and he was there to disrespect Dany, pretty much. So Dany reacted by giving the Masters a dose of their own medicine and crucifying an equal amount of them as the children.
Now, the reason why this is wrong is because not ALL the Masters should be held accountable. Most of them maybe, since Hizdahr said there was a vote of sorts, but not all. Hizdahr’s father, for instance, actually protested the act and there were probably some more like him.
So yeah, killing without trial is terrible (though not as terrible as crucifying over a hundred children just to make a childish point), but Dany isn’t entirely insane here. And as was established, Dany already realized doing that was a mistake. She won’t do it again (at least until she returns from the Dothraki sea).
First, historical context is important. Essos is not a due process-centric place, to say the least (after all, slavery is legal until Dany abolishes it…). In such a place, leniency towards a generally immoral enemy could easily devolve into either total chaos, or the collapse of the Dany regime (which we see beginning to happen…). Secondly, the slavers are prisoners of war, and even by today’s standards, might be appropriately judged outside the normal bounds of due process. Military tribunals might have been more appropriate than a swift crucifixion, though, I’ll give you that. Third, the men, even if they had nothing to do with the crucifixions, are self-identified slavers, who were practicing slavery when Dany arrived. They dress as slavers, and though it remained off-camera, likely did not deny their status as slavers. Dany has conquered a slave city, abolished slavery, and must hold the slavers accountable for their deeds, lest they determine that the new ruler is weak, and reassert their authority. Making an example of only the slavers perceived to be the worst of the lot is actually rather lenient, though she should have collected some testimony to weed the good apples out (such as Hizdar’s father). Indeed, eliminating ALL the slavers might have been the most practical option for her, but she did not go that route. By the standards of the time and place, she was probably hailed a saint.
In my mind, she’s essentially Abe Lincoln, killing those slave leaders who were the worst of the worst (both during and after the war), and making some mistakes in judgment about how to go about it (sometimes via due process, sometimes not, sometimes through summary executions, and sometimes through questionable pardons). And as we see, Dany’s leniency facilitates the resurgence of the slaver class, which will likely lead to more death and suffering.
In short, the morality of her actions are not so simple (and not so easily dismissed as ‘barbaric,’ whatever that means. I think she acted as morally as she could, given the circumstances, and believe that most other characters in the series, barring Selmy and Jorah Mormont, would not have been as wise as she.
The question is: How does a state leader act as morally as possible, while simultaneously defending against peoples and forces that are significantly less moral than they, and are determined to undermine the state? How does one balance practicing morality with defending that morality? Does an open society not need a sword to defend it from the forces of a closed society? Does not democracy need a strong defense in an authoritarian world? These are questions only Dany, and some other Lords in Westeros, have to deal with. And in my mind, Dany strikes the best balance of the remaining Lords and Ladies that care about honor and justice.
That is, until books 4 and 5, when she loses her mind…
Disagreed. Slavery was a completely normal thing in the American south as well, but there was an awareness of its immorality (based on its abolition in other parts of the Union, and abroad), just as there is an awareness of its immorality in Essos, due to the fact that Westeros is slavery free (legally-speaking, at least). And was it unjust of Spartacus to kill his slave-masters simply because enslaving people was a normal thing for them? If not, why is Dany held to a different standard? Simply because she is not a slave herself? That seems thin to me.
My own moral code would have dictated a series of trials, leading to the imprisonment of major slavers, and a qualified amnesty for minor slavers who not only pledged an oath to disavow the practice, but also committed to public service under the new regime (with the promise of a healthy stipend that would accommodate the loss of slave labor). But Dany’s actions are perfectly understandable in the context of the world she lived in. In order to enforce her new order, she had to harshly put down the old. And frankly, she may not have been harsh enough. Removing all the slavers from society might have been a far more sensible action. As it stands (at least in the TV show) the slavers are rising up, and this will mean far more death and suffering than might have occurred if she acted more severely at the start.
And just for the record, what Dany does in show Astapor and Yunkai may be different than what she does in the books. Jorah mentions that an upstart slaver named Cleo wrests control of Yunkai from a Council, which suggests that Dany may have also abolished slavery there.
In short, I find it baffling how easily people condemn Dany, while giving a free pass (or at least a more lenient pass) to many of the other immoral cunts throughout the story. She’s a figure for that ages, and while she makes big mistakes (and sometimes acts in a way that would be rightfully deemed barbaric today), her arc bends towards justice.
Cool helmet on that guy.
ArgonathofBraavos,
This made me chuckle. Thanks for that.
Agreed but as you said I’m not ready to say she won’t do it again. I will not be suprised if another field of fire occurs when she returns to Westeros. But atleast this time it should be against soldiers and not against civilians
They need doubles just for sitting down???
Turncloak,
How would that be something bad? Dany would have to kill some soldiers on her way to conquering Westeros. It’s completely different.
realitytripz,
So the actors don’t have to be there for every shot. Shots from afar that don’t focus on them, for instance.
You don’t sit a slave or a servant right next to the King and Queen.
True Missandei is there but she is a free woman and advisor to Dany. For Tyrion to be sitting where he is he is either a similar rank to Missandei (so not a slave or servant) or an honoured guest.
And as I doubt Tyrion has had the time to rise to the position of Hizdar’s trusted advisor then the most likely explanation is that he is there as an honoured guest and therefore Dany knows who he is.
Cleon was a Slave who worked as a Butcher not a Slaver.
In both the book and show he overthrows the Council Dany had set up in Astapor
Why are we certain that Tyrion is actually sitting with the royal cadre? What did I miss – just saw pic of Peter D sitting with folks during a break… Is there another picture that is more conclusive?
Patchy Face,
See the last post
There are no slaves in Meereen though. My guess is he is Hizdar’s equivalent to Missandei, being sat beside Hizdar and all.
The dutch site Glamora.ma has reported that the dutch Allon Sylvain has been cast as a merchant in the fifth season of game of thrones.
http://glamora.ma/2014/10/weer_een_nederlander_in_game_o.html
davy,
Any more details? When he filmed, where he filmed, who he filmed with…
jentario,
Fear not. Only that he was cast as a merchantmen and that he did not know any of the other actors. He apperently didn’t even know the show at all.
Besides, while the color of his outfit matches the one used by Hizdahr, everything else just screams “Westeros”.
I think he has used similar clothes before in the series, but in different colors. This may be a hint that at least someone knows who he really is.
A bit off topic and apologies if it’s been posted elsewhere but some good news for Wilko Johnson aka Ilyn Payne.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-29727632
Choukai,
We heard the good news a couple of months ago I think, but it’s good to see a 100% confirmation. Really happy for him, he seems like a great guy.
And he also mentioned wanting to return to GOT in that other article, so Illyn Payne may well be on our screens again in season 6.
jentario,
Thanks Ser – but still see water bottles, etc in the close ups. Guess I won’t be totally convinced til S5 but gives me something to hope for!
Peter Dinklage’s body double is sitting in the same place with the other body Doubles which seems a little too much of a coincidence.
Plus if the chair isn’t meant for Tyrion who is meant to be sitting there?
Daario?
IknowIknowIknow,
Hope the speculation is right!
ArgonathofBraavos,
I have to disagree with you there. She didn’t sort out the Masters looking for the “worst of the worst”. IIRC she said count off one hundred something Masters and crucify them. So there was no “standard” applied to who got killed or not.
And as for the Lincoln comparison, Lincoln never had any Southern slave owners killed. They were killed because they fought on the side of the South or they were caught in the middle of battles but he didn’t order the execution of slave owners. Also, Lincoln was dealing with his own countrymen. Dany came in as an outsider to Slaver’s Bay. Furthermore, the Emancipation Proclamation came almost 3 years into the Civil War. While it was a big part of the reason why he went to war (or at least a reason why so many in the North wanted to go to war and pushed him to do so), the South’s secession/treason was the main reason. Dany didn’t conquer those cities because they seceded from her control, she went in wanting to free the Slaves.
I could point out many other differences but I think the comparison is a little too superficial. Just my two cents.
Dame Pasty,
Lincoln only freed the slaves to save his presidency over the union.
“My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union…”
So , unlike Dany is perceived to be, he didn’t care at all about slavery. Freeing slaves was just a means to an end for him. Although, another motivation for him was that the freed slaves would fight for him…which is like Dany, again whether she did this on purpose or it happened by chance is still debatable. I think there are some similar themes but I don’t think Abe was a massive influence on GRRMs design of Dany.
http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/22/game-of-thrones-rumors/?ew_packageID=20470532
No Iron Islands subplot.
Maryanna,
Just saw that too. Not pleased with that news nor the fact that you know who will not be resurrected.
I don’t necessarily mind those things not “happening” in the season, but there should at least be some set up of them, and the article makes me think neither will happen at all (which is stupid, since both received foreshadowing).
Can Sue/another mod confirm the truth of the article on either count?
Hey guys, I know this is offtopic, but can someone please remind me if it was confirmed (or at least percieved from reputable source and generally assumed) that Bran will be absent from season 5 entirely?
Jordan,
It’s EW, so it’s definitely reliable and true. James Hibberd gets his info directly from d&d/HBO
I thought it was confirmed Hodor and Meera are taking a year off, but later Isaac Hempstead-Wright himself said he would be back for Season 5 after everyone flipped out.. of course I forgot where I saw that (probably here!).
Maryanna,
aurane waters,
Jordan,
Skeptical. Nothing is cited for the Iron Islands news and article says nothing about who author talked to/how he got information for this particular piece. Other “myths” like
were based off of interviews we’ve already seen and known about for a while (although I seriously doubt she’ll appear, it technically hasn’t been confirmed as cut).
Maryanna,
Just saw the article. Considering the source – Hibberd – I guess we should assume that its reliable. Much of it isn’t surprising knowing what we know so far about S5.
Still a bit disappointed to get confirmation that the Iron Islands are gone, “You Know Who” is not appearing, and no more than 10 episodes. (I’m sure that someone will tell me that none of these are crucial to the story, etc. Regardless, I was still hoping.)
Curious about how Bran’s story will be handled going forward. Didn’t we get confirmation that Isaac would appear but not Hodor and Meera? Why so much confusion on this point? Maybe they are using scenes that were shot last year?
Maryanna,
That isn’t news at all. It’s speculation based on lack of evidence. The article’s intro says it’s not based on any new information, that it’s just a click bait summary of what we already know. There’s no reason to believe the Iron Islands are cut any more than there was before this article got published.
Yeah none of that stuff is new. The thing about the “missing character ” is from back in late June
jentario,
Well shit. Hibberd just confirmed it in a comment: “I asked the producers last season if they were doing Dorne and Iron Islands in season 5. They said they were doing one of them. Later they announced they were doing Dorne… I’m not saying S5 won’t have any Iron Islands scenes, only that my understand is the big book 4 subplot isn’t a part of S5.” -JH
Lion of Night,
Well, that’s a shame if true (and I think it is), but to be honest I expected it at this point. I’m sure the Iron Islands are not entirely forgotten. 🙂
Look at the bright side of things, apparently Wilko Johnson is cancer free!
Abyss,
As long as they follow up on what they’ve started *cough*cough* Balon *cough*cough* then I’ll get over it. I’ll still mourn Euron though.
Fantastic news about Wilko!
I’m guessing Yara will have her usual 1 episode . No idea what they will do with Balon, if he doesn’t bite the dust, then Stannis should start to question Mel. Maybe they should have just burned two leeches if they planned on getting rid of the iron islands storyline. It is interesting that both D&D have said Theon is their favorite character, yet they have held back on the other ironborn. I understand it. I firmly believe any character/storyline that is cut is not crucial to the end game. I just think the journey is still important, and fleshing out the world of Ice and Fire isn’t a bad thing. What we know is that Yara must have some importance to the end of the story, or else why continue to fit her into each season?
Mr. Hibberd’s response in the comments of the EW article may not fully confirm that the Iron Islands won’t feature in Season 5, but it does increase my confidence in his claims. If he’s drawing his conclusions from a conversation that he had with the producers rather than just the absence of that storyline from filming reports so far, that gives his assertions more credibility.
So basically at some point before Season 4 ended, Hibberd had a conversation with the producers and asked them if they would be covering Dorne and the Iron Islands in Season 5. They told him that they would be doing one of them. Dorne was later confirmed (through the leaked casting calls obtained by Sue the Fury, location scouting in Spain, and later by Benioff and Weiss’s statement to Hibberd in a post-Season 4 interview that “There will be Dorne“). Recalling his previous conversation with the producers and noting the complete lack of either casting or filming news for the Iron Islands storyline, Hibberd concludes that the Iron Islands will not be included in Season 5 (at least in terms of their book storyline) and reports it.
There’s definitely an inference being made here, but I would say that statement probably does qualify as the most definitive indicator that we’ve gotten yet about the Iron Islands storyline for Season 5. At the very least, I would say that this is more explicit evidence than simply drawing conclusions from the absence of casting and filming news so far – which had lead many of us to reach the same conclusion anyway.
Greyjoys fans be like http://joerenegade.deviantart.com/art/Sand-Snake-160453134
Lady Nym,
#NOONEUNDERSTAAANDS
jentario,
This. Hibberd is in the know on some things but NOT EVERYTHING.
Well, I already kinda figured the iron islands storyline would be pushed back to next season anyway.
(Mr. Hibberd only asked if the storyline would be in Season 5, so this doesn’t confirm it’s out of the show altogether).
Wouldn’t be the end of the world if they pushed the Iron Islands stuff back to Season 6 as it can be streamlined down quite easily but they really need to set some foundations for it this season. Wouldn’t take more than one or two scenes and some references dropped into other characters conversations. Be silly not to include it in some way now after the leeches and keeping Yara/Asha in the viewers consciousness.
James Hibberd’s clickbait conjecture aside, we’ve got this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2804012/Game-Thrones-starts-shooting-fifth-season-Spanish-town-Osuna.html
and this
http://www.justjared.com/2014/10/22/emilia-clarke-michiel-huisman-take-a-game-of-thrones-filming-break-in-spain/
(this second link isn’t really shooting news, just the actors out and about. Nathalie and Emilia, of course, look great in casual wear, they don’t need fancy GoT costumes on to look good!)
TheTouchOfFrost,
You are correct. That’s why I mentioned that other’s encouraged him to free the slaves for ethical reasons and he went along with it–I didn’t mention why he personally decided to. I have read the same thing you state here–that it was totally pragmatic for him and not a decision based on morality.
Greenjones,
Glad to read and see that GoT is helping out the local economy in Spain and the locals seem to be having some fun. I rather enjoy this aspect of this global phenomenon. I also hope Osuna will be fondly associated with a different sort of beast.
I like the fact the it’s branching out too, seems that some entrepreneurial types made a swift 100,000 euros out of a GOT related telephone scam too.
davy,
Yeah, he doesn’t even have a character name. A tiny role, basically.
The Ironborn will have a role; their role is to be smashed by Stannis so that he can win support in the north. I predict Asha/Yara will be a prisoner and ultimately Theon. near the end of the season.
Stannis will be contrasted favorably against the foil of the Boltons so that when we get to the pink letter, we are sad, only to be happy when he triumphs over the Boltons and restores the Starks to Winterfell. (remember old Rickon who went to the Umbers or perhaps went to Skagos? It would be awesome for Davos to go fetch him!)
That would be so hilarious if they re-cast Daario again, and that was the new Daario.
Anyway, I’m still hoping for Iron Islands next season. But either way, it’s so hard to imagine this whole story being finished in just 3 more seasons!
OH boy we just got a delicious Avengers 2 trailer and now I’m already anticipating a GOT trailer in 2 in a half months if they keep last years trend =]. And then 1 month after that the season 4 blu ray releases with some new history and lore !
HYPE!!!!
A bit of Alfie Allen here, a little video interview. I haven’t finished watching it yet so I don’t know how much he says about the show (he’s mostly talking about that John Wick movie with Keanu Reeves) but given that he’s Alfie “Loose-Lips” Allen he’s likely to spill something…one can only hope anyhow.
http://collider.com/alfie-allen-john-wick-game-of-thrones-interview/
Greenjones,
Note to my past self:
I’ve watched it now. Not too much info. He talked about how he shoots on and off for a few days at a time over a period of months (which we know already is how the N.I. shooting works, so no real revelation there). He alluded to there being a particular director that he enjoyed working with this year but wouldn’t say which one. What happened Alfie? You aren’t loose-lipped anymore! For shame.
Aha! So here you all are!
*Takes the Black*
Joshua Atreides,
Welcome! I was wondering when you’d come around. What took you?
Joshua Atreides,
The Spice King has returned!
Oh shit. Price of real estate just went down….;)
Joshua Atreides,
Formerly Rygar BTW.
Mine is the Furry,
lol
What do you all think Season 4’s DVD Sigil Cover choices are going to be this year?
I’ve got Season 1 – Stark, 2 – Greyjoy, 3 – Lannister…it’s nerdy, but love wondering who they’re gonna give us as options
http://instagram.com/p/udScTSwQyc/
Eugene Simon almost done with “filming”. Still no official confirmation but it doesn’t get much more obvious than this, does it?
LoPocket,
What were the options for each of the previous seasons? Will they not start repeating themselves soon, or resorting to really minor houses?
If I remember correctly:
Season 1-
Targ, Stark
Season 2-
Greyjoy, Lannister
Season 3-
Lannister, Targ, Stark again?
ArgonathofBraavos,
This^ Thank you… The people seems just hate Dany because is mainstrem
LoPocket,
They really just need to let this season have the option of all four of the previous ones so that everyone can get the fourth that they’re missing, and the last few seasons can just move on to the other houses. My greatest fear is that I’ve somehow chosen wrong over the past few seasons and am going to end up missing out on one I want.
Even after reading the “Game of Thrones season 5 rumors debunked” article by James Hiiberd, some people still maintain that the Iron Islands may be in, because the rest of the article was so badly sourced. However, please consider that this storyline being cut was not just overzealous speculation by Hibberd (like the part about LSH being definitively cut) or plainly misunderstood news (Bran taking a gap year). This was knowledge that comes directly from D&D. As others have pointed out in this comment section, when people asked in the comments how he knew about this, Hibberd answered with the following:
This seems clear-cut to me —no pun intended. Unless Hibberd is outright lying, which I very much doubt, the Iron Islands plot is gone. As he said, that doesn’t necessarily mean new Greyjoys won’t be included in season 6, or that the ones we know won’t appear this incoming season (I think we should expect to keep seeing Balon and Yara —personally I hope to see Balon’s story being resolved, and Yara having her latter ADWD storyline in the North fairly intact, although her early arc may be completely different.) Even still, this is major news, right?
LoPocket,
Definitely Martell, maybe Tyrell and Bolton will also be options.
LukaNieto,
All it is is confirmation that Victarion and his trek to Meereen are officially cut. That comes alongside the horn and probably the Kingsmoot (and Aeron with it). Without all that, you could hardly call the Iron Islands a storyline. It’s just Euron, and a lot of promise for future seasons. We almost knew that for sure before Hibberd’s comment, given the lack of casting news.
It’s entirely possible and even likely that Euron is either cut or delayed to season 6, but D&D’s comment on “doing one” of Dorne and the Iron Islands really doesn’t give us much new insight at this point. It would have been nice to know they said that a bit earlier, when we were still in doubt.
What we need is a Gemma interview (preferably by Flicks and the City). She could give us an idea of how big (or small, or nonexistent) her role in season 5 is. Because she should be upped to main cast at this point, if the show will approach her anything like the books.
BCog kind of implied that she will get shit on for failing her mission at the Dreadfort, so hopefully that means she won’t pull a Hodor on us.
jentario,
Bryan Cogman’s comments gave me hope for a meaty Yara storyline in season 5, yeah.
jentario,
Do you remember the link to where Cogman talked about Yara’s future stuff? I’d be interested in reading about all that.
LukaNieto,
Despite enjoying Euron as a character, at this point I just want the show to maintain some level of continuity and resolve the Balon plot they started. Someone should tweet at Gemma and find out–she’s certainly more active on twitter than Patrick is haha.
Lion of Night,
IIRC BCog talk about Yara in an interview with Game of Owns (in WiC.net).
Lion of Night,
Yes – there is a leech with Balon’s name on it.
Mine is the Furry,
I had my suspicions. Your comment style has a signature joi de vivre unlike anyone I’ve encountered.
And no that is not an invitation.
Listtlebird,
Don’t think people hate her. They’re just bored of her storyline. She hasn’t done anything of major interest since season/Book 1.
jentario,
At this point, I would be happy to just have Euron stage a bloody coup to take over the Iron Islands. Would at least fit with the “paying the iron price” ethos. Maybe this would mean Yara/Asha doesn’t go back to the Iron Islands as she knows what a psycho her uncle is. So off to Deepwood Motte to wait for Stannis! As you say Gemma Whelan is our one window into what they may be thinking with this…unless that older lady who has been cast can be confirmed as Lady Glover.
Not sure why they can’t fit the Iron Islands stuff in. It requires minimal screen time to set up for Season 6. Would much rather have a couple of well done set ups scenes for that then more MissandGrey or innane chat about pies.
Gatehouse Ami,
That’s an absolutely rational conclusion, because Jacob Anderson has no life outside of GOT 🙂
StandOzone,
Found it! Thanks.
Yeah, then I scrolled further and saw “Dirty Work” by Steely Dan around what my paranoid mind thinks must’ve been script time. Gawd. 😉
jentario,
Natalia Tena cheekily confirms return to the show http://www.vertele.com/video-articulo/la-salvaje-osha-de-juego-de-tronos-al-natural-nos-lleva-por-su-refugio-en-la-nueva-serie-de-lasexta/
Ed,
Unfortunately I don’t speak Spanish. Tell me (us) more!
Dutch maester,
This. Spanish-speakers, enlighten us!
Ed,
I don’t see the video on my screen… poop
Ed,
Crazy speculation of the day:
Natalia mentions finding refuge in the interview, right?
What if
When asked about whether she’ll return to the show, she says “Yes”, then throws a cheeky “I hope so” when she realizes she probably shouldn’t say anything. And then she says “Yes” again.
Lion,
Yes, I think Davos will probably go directly to Last Hearth in the show.
Okay, I watched the videos, and they don’t ever talk about GoT
EDIT: Scratch that, it was the first question in the second video. Must not have been paying attention. She never says season 5, though…
Ed,
Wow. This is big, isn’t it?
Luka Nieto,
Well, technically we all knew Osha would come back at some point. The real question is when, and Natalia was far from clear on that front. The question asked was “can we expect to see you again in GOT?” and the answer was “yes”. So we’re still out of the loop here. The fact that she outright said it, with complete certainty, is interesting though. I’m hoping they’re in and that that means Manderly (or the Greatjon replacing Manderly) is also in.
The cell processor of Playstation 3 is made by IBM and is exclusive only for PS3.
The Blue Ray disc drive greatly enhances the quality of video the users watch.
I will compile them into a list in no particular order,
and give a brief overview of them.
http://www.dalkanews.net