Sophie Turner and Maisie Williams reflect on Game of Thrones and George R. R. Martin discusses creating Arya and Sansa

Sansa Arya Ned Winterfell Crypt 704

In an extensive Rolling Stones feature, Sophie Turner and Maisie Williams reflected on their shared experience growing up on Game of Thrones and George R.R. Martin talked about his early inspiration for Arya and Sansa—and how much of Season 8 will be based on his ending!

One of the most heart-warming aspects of any behind the scenes material for Game of Thrones has always been the palpable friendship between Williams and Turner. According to Rolling Stone, the two met for the first time at a chemistry read in 2009, when Williams was 12 and Turner was 13.

“We were pretty much best friends from that second on,” Turner said, now 22.

“I thought Sophie was the coolest thing I’d ever seen,” Williams, now 21, added. “I get why they do chemistry reads, because when it’s right, it’s so right. Like, we’re best friends. And they could see that all those years ago, and it must have been real magic watching these two girls have the best time together.”

While it might seem unfortunate that two actors who enjoy each other’s company so much weren’t able to share a single scene together from the end of season 1 until season 6, according to Turner, that was probably for the best.

“We’re a nightmare to work with,” she said. “If you’re working with your best friend, you will never get any work done, ever. Anytime we tried to be serious about anything, it’s just the hardest thing in the world. I think they really regretted putting us in scenes together. It was difficult.”

As much fun as Williams and Turner had as screen partners, they’re upfront about the inherent difficulty of effectively growing up on a television set. Williams in particular, struggled with the constraints of playing Arya, a tomboyish child, while she, herself, was maturing.

“I was becoming a woman and then having to wear this thing that … pushes [the] tits under [the] armpits. And it got worse, ’cause it kept growing, and they put this little fat belly on me to make it even out. I was, like, 15: ‘I just wanna be a girl and have a boyfriend!’ That was when it sucked. The first time they gave me a bra in my trailer, I was like, ‘Yes! I’m a woman!’ ”

Turner concurred that Williams went through a hard time: “She’s going through all these changes, and yet she has to still look like a child and cut her hair short and look completely different to how she’s feeling inside,” she reflected. “I think she really envied me because I got to wear the dresses and have nice makeup and nice hair. And I wanted the trousers and the boyish clothes!”

In the interview, Williams alluded vaguely to family issues that helped her tap into Arya’s rage.

“People would always say when I was 12, ‘How could you ever — what did you draw on?’ They just don’t know anything about my past. It’s such a freeing thing being able to explore these emotions in a really safe environment. I think it was really helpful for me when I was 12, 13, to just, like, go crazy, and then you go home and you’re like, ‘Phew, what a good day.’”

However, while filming season 8, Williams went through period of emotional inaccessibility  … which, reportedly, contrasts with where Arya is in the final season.

“It was really amazing, perfect timing because Arya’s just starting to feel again for the first time,” she said. “So it was actually kinda beautiful the way it was working. Because usually I’m trying to play Arya with no emotion, whilst feeling everything. And this time I was feeling nothing while I was trying to feel something, and it worked … I think.”

Williams said that immediately after she wrapped production for season 8 she went back to her trailer and took a shower (“’cause I was dirty. Arya is always dirty”). Then she stood outside to enjoy the “really glorious sunshine, the nicest day,” headed over to the assistant directors’ trailer and grabbed a beer.

Turner, by contrast, wept when she completed filming “because I cry at everything,” as she put it. One especially memorable moment for her (and perhaps significant for us speculating fans) was when Benioff and Weiss gifted her with a storyboard of their favorite Sansa scene … which is also Sansa’s final scene in the show.

“Sansa, this whole show, the only reason she has willed herself to survive is for her family,” Turner said. “The power of family and unity is so strong that it can keep people alive. That’s the biggest thing I’ve taken away from the show: Family is everything. I think Papa Stark would be very proud of us,” she said with a smile.


george rr martin photo

Rolling Stone also interviewed George R.R. Martin about the Stark sisters and his inspiration for creating them.

Though his very first idea for A Song of Ice and Fire was the scene in which the exclusively male party happens upon direwolf pups on their way back to Winterfell, Martin knew he “wanted some girls, too” in House Stark. He soon developed the idea of “two sisters who were very, very different from each other.”

Arya and Sansa’s characterizations were built largely around how they reacted to the gender norms of Westerosi society, which Martin based on the Middle Ages.

“The Middle Ages was very patriarchal,” Martin said. “I’m wary of overgeneralizing, since that makes me seem like an idiot — I do recognize that the Middle Ages was hundreds of years long and took place in many different countries — but generally, women didn’t have a lot of rights, and they were used to make marriage alliances. . . . I’m talking highborn women, of course — peasant women had even fewer rights.

Of course it wasn’t all bad. Martin also incorporated the more romantic aspects of medieval culture into Westerosi society.

“This is also the era where the whole idea of courtly romance was born — the gallant knight, the princess,” he said. “In some sense, the Disney-princess archetype is a legacy of the troubadours of the romance era of medieval France.”

It’s this aspect of Westerosi culture that has young Sansa so enthralled, of course. But while the elder sister embraces Westerosi notions of femininity, Martin always intended for Arya to rebuff them, to be “a girl who chafes at the roles she was being pushed into, who didn’t want to sew, who wanted to fight with a sword . . . who liked hunting and wrestling in the mud.”

“A lot of the women I’ve known had aspects of Arya, especially when I was a young man in the Sixties and Seventies. I knew a lot of young women who weren’t buying into ‘Oh, I have to find a husband and be a housewife,’ who would say, ‘I don’t wanna be Mrs. Smith, I wanna be my own person.’ And that’s certainly part of Arya’s thing.”

Of course, no interview with Martin would be complete without an update on A Song of Ice and Fire. 

“I’ve been so slow with these books,” Martin admitted, when asked how the show’s progress may impact his story plans. “The major points of the ending will be things I told them five or six years ago. But there may also be changes, and there’ll be a lot added.”

49 responses

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    1. Does this sort of confirm that her final scene is likely a positive moment for Sansa? Meaning she’ll probably survive to the very end.

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    2. Ser Nobody:
      Does this sort of confirm that her final scene is likely a positive moment for Sansa? Meaning she’ll probably survive to the very end.

      I personally think so, yes. I never thought she would die anyway.

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    3. They are both adorable, I just watched the video of the RS interview. You can see they are true friends and really love each other. They’ve grown into lovely young women.

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    4. Yaaaay! And the article had a new behind the scenes photo of Maisie from Season 8 (per the caption).

      Thanks Petra! The quotes you pulled are the very same ones I focused on, particularly GRRM’s discussion about medieval women:

      but generally, women didn’t have a lot of rights, and they were used to make marriage alliances. . . . I’m talking highborn women, of course — peasant women had even fewer rights.”

      At the same time, he notes, “this is also the era where the whole idea of courtly romance was born — the gallant knight, the princess. In some sense, the Disney-princess archetype is a legacy of the troubadours of the romance era of medieval France.”

      This seems to be in line with the Vogue article when Lena said GRRM’s plan was to “upend the patriarchy” and Maisie essentially saying women are at the forefront in S8. Part of subverting the fantasy trope is to bring women to the forefront as men have usually been at the (literal) seat of power. I feel like GRRM is thinking about Thomas Malory’s Le Morte d’Arthur which is such a prime example of creating this “Disney-princess archetype” and its relation to chivalry (which I feel people have a skewed idea about what that actually is).

      Very excited to see how Sansa and Arya interact with one another in S8.

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    5. Thank you, Petra. RS did them both justice as they do each other justice. The video was…endearing, hilarious, infectious. Maisie could bottle her laughter and become a billionaire. Sophie’s slightly more eloquent and Maisie has slightly better memory. Huzzah! Long live Mophie!

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    6. “We’re a nightmare to work with,” she said. “If you’re working with your best friend, you will never get any work done, ever. Anytime we tried to be serious about anything, it’s just the hardest thing in the world. I think they really regretted putting us in scenes together. It was difficult.”

      And now we know why season 8 took so long to film.

      Just finished 7×05 later this week the last 2. i want to wait a little bit for those 2 massive episodes.

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    7. I don’t know where else to ask this but is the prediction for another trailer on 3/28 still probable? I have watched the first one an embarrassing number of times.

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    8. Ser Nobody,

      I don’t know if it will be positive for Sansa, but it will be iconic for her. I mean, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau got the storyboard where Jaime’s hand was chopped off, and Isaac Hempstead-Wright got the storyboard where Bran was pushed out the window.

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    9. Laura:
      I don’t know where else to ask this but is the prediction for another trailer on 3/28 still probable? I have watched the first one an embarrassing number of times.

      What I’ve been seeing is this Sunday, the 31st. Veep and Barry have their premieres that night. Don’t know if it’ll be a second trailer or some sort of promo like the “Crypts of Winterfell”.

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    10. I believe Sophie also mentioned that one of the items she kept was this scroll that had a huge spoiler on it. The more hints she drops, the more I think she becomes the leader of some establishment. Whether that’s the Iron Throne (people would riot) or claiming ownership of Winterfell is another question. But I assume she’ll be successful at the end of whatever arc she has this season.

      I am very excited to see the scenes she has with Maisie. Their chemistry has always come across strong onscreen and it’ll be fun to see their characters work together.

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    11. Edward:
      I believe Sophie also mentioned that one of the items she kept was this scroll that had a huge spoiler on it. The more hints she drops, the more I think she becomes the leader of some establishment. Whether that’s the Iron Throne (people would riot) or claiming ownership of Winterfell is another question. But I assume she’ll be successful at the end of whatever arc she has this season.

      I am very excited to see the scenes she has with Maisie. Their chemistry has always come across strong onscreen and it’ll be fun to see their characters work together.

      Yes, she’s also mentioned that nobody has noticed it. If it was something significant or eye-catching, then one would expect it’s some sort of triumph. It going un-noticed probably means it’s a beautiful or imtimate moment, or one showing Sansa at her best.

      Their chemistry is ironic, because thus far their characters have been utterly opposed. In Season 8, that will change probably, considering their reconciliation on the battlements. Their finally clearing the air and their sharing of Ned’s famous saying (Arya’s in the books, Grrrr…) last season forecasts their teaming up. Should be interesting.

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    12. This gets me really excited. I don’t know. I just like both Sansa and Arya as well as Sophie and Maisie. The individual RS portrait of Maisie is so beautiful. Do not like Sophie’s so much, but they both look amazing on the cover.

      Ser Nobody:
      Does this sort of confirm that her final scene is likely a positive moment for Sansa? Meaning she’ll probably survive to the very end.

      Yes, it sure sounds like it. Well, I at least hope so.

      PS: Maisie will feature on another magazin cover in April. That’s also a very great shot of her. ❤️ smagazin

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    13. So we have Jaime (NWC) and Sansa (Sophie Turner) both with endings that are beautiful/ faves according to the actors ❤️ I cannot say how pleased that makes me.

      As far as Asoiaf is concerned, you do you Martin. I think his photo shoot headshot pic and hint in his NaB means we’re most likely getting Winds this year. I cannot say how happy I feel. “It’s been a long time my friend…”

      I like the idea he wrote Arya as a 60’s and 70’s woman wanting to be herself. Probably means she’s not getting a Gendry marriage ending which is good enough for me. Not because I don’t want Arya to know happiness through romantic love. I just think maybe it’s not her.

      Thank you Petra.

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    14. Cliohna,

      “PS: Maisie will feature on another magazin cover in April. That’s also a very great shot of her. ❤️ smagazin.”

      ______
      That could be the best shot of the Many-Faced Goddess I’ve ever seen.

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    15. What a great article and video! And a very refreshing antidote to all the attempts to pit sister against sister, and actress against actress.

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    16. I’m amazed at the transformation of the Stark children on the show and in real life. I detested Sansa’s character in the early years and thought Sophie Turner was a hideous little thing with her twisted pasty face always distorted in rage because she could not have her way. All these years later, Turner as matured into a stunning and regal statuesque beauty of Classical proportions and her character is one of my favorites.

      Arya’s character, while adorable, was boring at first, which was the worst thing about her. Maisie Williams was well cast as this little adorable girl who did not seem quite tomboyish enough , physically. As Williams matured, she better fit into the tomboy mode. In Season Two Arya started to grow on me. Book Arya in the second novel is completely enamoring. Her journeys are some of the most memorable, most enjoyable and funniest parts of the novels. The show gives only a skeletal version of Arya and this is why she bored me in the TV show. God, the whole House of Black and White thing seemed to go on forever ad nauseam. I adore the badass Arya! Williams has really matured well and portrays her character perfectly.

      Game of Thrones, thanks to Nina Gold, is perfectly cast (excepting Wilf Scolding) and Turner and Williams prove it.

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    17. I saw this for the first time yesterday. I’m not sure if it’s been around all this time but it’s just precious to see Maisie so early on giving an hbo interview on set.
      If you haven’t seen it yet it is really special. And it’s only a couple minutes. https://youtu.be/U1oR-3E_ohI

      It is really cool to see her at the beginning in this video and then see her with Sophie as she is today with RS

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    18. Lol:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      But why dont you Trust the date 28/3 anymore? Somenthing you know?

      The person that knew the exact date and time and contents of the first trailer are saying this Sunday the 31st. They don’t have any other info yet as to what time on Sunday or the contents of the promo. Could be an actual trailer or a promo like the “Crypts of Winterfell”.

      They did a “March Madness” trailer for Season 6 on March 26th 2016, so it could be a quick 30 second hype video like that https://youtu.be/dKrhgVFTI6I

      Also, with the Veep and Barry premieres Sunday night, it could be a lead in to one of those.

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    19. Ten Bears:
      Pigeon,

      And here’s a Sansa & Arya scene from S1e3 to follow up the scene in the audition video.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFQlanmv-3c

      (It’s almost hard to imagine these two little girls have grown up into women before our eyes.)

      I don’t think I ever truly forgave Sansa for being awful about the doll. Lol.

      I remember my friend and I breaking into Sansa/Arya “speak” at random when we hung out together in those early seasons. It usually involved us yelling:

      “You’re spoiling everythiiiiingg!!!”
      “You’re a liar! I hate you!”
      “Arya, stop!”
      “I don’t care!”
      “I’m just a stupid girl, with stupid hair, and stupid friends.”
      “LIAAAARRRRRRR!!!!”

      We never really grow up.

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    20. Tron79:
      I saw this for the first time yesterday. I’m not sure if it’s been around all this time but it’s just precious to see Maisie so early on giving an hbo interview on set.
      If you haven’t seen it yet it is really special.And it’s only a couple minutes. https://youtu.be/U1oR-3E_ohI

      It is really cool to see her at the beginning in this video and then see her with Sophie as she is today with RS

      That’s so cute. I can’t remember watching it before, thank you! The crooked smile when she has the helmet on. 😆

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    21. Pigeon: I don’t think I ever truly forgave Sansa for being awful about the doll. Lol.

      I remember my friend and I breaking into Sansa/Arya “speak” at random when we hung out together in those early seasons. It usually involved us yelling:

      “You’re spoiling everythiiiiingg!!!”
      “You’re a liar! I hate you!”
      “Arya, stop!”
      “I don’t care!”
      “I’m just a stupid girl, with stupid hair, and stupid friends.”
      “LIAAAARRRRRRR!!!!”

      We never really grow up.

      __—–
      Oh, that is funny! 🤣 “Sansa/Arya Speak.”
      Tell me, did it ever escalate into spoon-flinging desserts at each other?

      PS: I too thought Sansa was awful to her father about the doll he gave her. Then I felt bad for her a year later on the night of the Battle of the Blackwater when the Hound surprised her in her room – and she was clutching the doll. 😢

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    22. Ten Bears: __—– Oh, that is funny! 🤣 “Sansa/Arya Speak.”Tell me, did it ever escalate into spoon-flinging desserts at each other?

      PS: I too thought Sansa was awful to her father about the doll he gave her. Then I felt bad for her a year later on the night of the Battle of the Blackwater when the Hound surprised her in her room – and she was clutching the doll. 😢

      Sadly, my years of playing baseball did nothing for my lack of skill at spoon-flinging, dangit!

      Yes, that’s one of those small details that I love so much – I think almost all of us can relate to wanting to hold on to better days or cling to happier times. Not that she was happy to get it initially, but obviously she loved her father.

      Also, I think that scene is probably some.of Sophie’s best acting. Very expressive. Gods she was young then.

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    23. Pigeon,

      Yeah. It just seemed to popup a couple days ago. I had done YouTube searches for Arya or maisie Williams videos many times and this is the first I saw it. I liked what she said about needle too.

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    24. Pigeon,

      I just wrote down her quote about needle from the video.. This really does sum up alot about her character.

      “Using needle, it’s like, I almost feel alot more powerful, you know, because it’s a sword. It’s quite a manly thing to have. It changes the way I look at scenes and that I’m alot different than other girls.”

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    25. Ten Bears,

      Ugh, that scene always makes me scream “go with him!!!!” at my screen. How much suffering could she have spared herself if she’d only gone with him. She knew he wasn’t going to hurt her. But she was only a kid and she was sure Stannis was going to win, still, it’s a pity. How cool would it have been had Sandor arrived at the inn where Arya and co. we’re dining with the brotherhood with Sansa with him, prompting Arya to join them. It would have been a very different journey, but he could have protected them both and got them home.

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    26. Che: Ugh, that scene always makes me scream “go with him!!!!” at my screen. How much suffering could she have spared herself if she’d only gone with him.

      I honesty don’t think it would have gone well. We saw how scrappy Arya traveling with the hound went – lots of near misses with death. For Sansa to survive the same? Fat chance. The Hound would have tried to protect her but there’d be little she could do to help. Unfortunately the scars on the Hounds face along with his size make him unmistakable – a girl traveling with him would surely be assumed to be Sansa.

      It’s like what Sansa and Arya said to each other in S6 about how they wouldn’t have been able to do what the other did to survive and they are equally awesome for it. Two sides of the coin.

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    27. Stark Raven’ Rad,

      If it’s a beautiful/intimate scene, I hope it shows Sansa hugging a new direwolf that would take Lady’s place as her companion (perhaps from Nymeria’s pack?). It would also be a great way to symbolize how she embraces her Stark heritage and her becoming Lady of Winterfell.

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    28. QueenofThrones: I honesty don’t think it would have gone well. We saw how scrappy Arya traveling with the hound went – lots of near misses with death.For Sansa to survive the same?Fat chance.The Hound would have tried to protect her but there’d be little she could do to help.Unfortunately the scars on the Hounds face along with his size make him unmistakable – a girl traveling with him would surely be assumed to be Sansa.

      It’s like what Sansa and Arya said to each other in S6 about how they wouldn’t have been able to do what the other did to survive and they are equally awesome for it.Two sides of the coin.

      See, I don’t think that’s true about Arya. It’s not as clear in the show, but Arya DID know how and when to shut up. She did it with Tywin in Harrenhall, and she did it on the road A LOT on the way to Harrenhall. She was smart, she knew when and when not to trust people. When to let her anger simmer and keep her mouth shut, and when to let it loose. She knew that sometimes she just had to play along.

      She would have realized in KL that she was no longer the King’s Hand’s daughter, but a prisoner and she would have played the part just as she did in Harrenhall. Arya is a lot smarter and wily than people give her credit for. No, she wouldn’t have been a perfect lady, but she would have behaved in order to not get killed.

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    29. JenniferH,

      Arya repeatedly got herself and The Hound in trouble because she couldn’t hold it down. She even contemplated trying to murder Tywin at one point and needed Jaqen to save her butt when she got herself caught stealing information,

      It’s highly unlikely that she would’ve been able to control herself around Joffrey. It wouldn’t necessarily have mattered around Cersei, Tyrion, Tywin etc unless she did something really suicidally reckless, because they’d be smart enough to see her as an asset. But Joffrey…

      People give Arya credit for being wily and smart all the time. She’s one of the fan favourite characters. People love her. Nobody’s underestimating her. They’re just giving their honest assessment of the character’s temperament, which the show itself has now endorsed, rather than bend over backwards to try and make the character infallible.

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    30. Ser Nobody,

      Well …. not exactly . Too much people sometimes like another kind of scenes . Sansa last scene was probably very dramatic or somenthing like that . Probably she was acting very well In her final scene

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    31. Yeah, I sharply disagreed that Arya wouldn’t have survived Sansa’s trials…but whatever it takes to smooth things over with your sibling when you’re sick of fighting and trying to get along, I suppose…;p

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    32. Let’s see. Arya:

      – Got caught by Amory Lorch stealing scrolls and needed Jaqen to save her.
      – She seriously contemplated trying to murder Tywin, which would’ve been a death sentence.
      – Tywin caught her in her lies about her identity because she couldn’t resist showing off.
      – She challenged Thoros of Myr to a sword fight because she didn’t like being made fun of.
      – She tried to kill The Hound after his trial by combat and had to be held back by Gendry.
      – She ran away from the Brotherhood in a fit of pique and subsequently got captured by The Hound. She got caught attempting to kill him and never stopped mouthing off towards him, including further threats to kill him.
      – She snuck into The Twins without The Hound’s knowledge and was going to head further in despite seeing all the Starks being murdered, only for The Hound to stop her.
      – She confronted the Frey soldiers without warning. The Hound saved her again.
      – She marched into the inn where Polliver and co were, dragging The Hound into another unnecessary fight.
      – She kept letting her curiosity get the better of her in The House of Black & White, questioning orders and trying to sneak around the temple.
      – She abandoned her mission in order to follow Meryn Trant, almost getting recognised in the process.
      – She got caught stealing one of the faces to exact revenge on Trant. They could’ve killed her to balance things out, but some other poor chump took the hit for her. They only blinded her instead. No biggie.
      – She refused to follow through with her mission to kill Lady Crane. No judgement here. It was the right thing morally to do. But it’s still another example of her being unable to compromise, at risk to her own life.

      Before Ned’s death she attacked the Prince, disobeyed Ned constantly and was going to charge the stage and get herself killed or captured at Ned’s execution.

      I really don’t know how anyone could argue that this character would have been able to keep herself in check for years, while being tormented by Joffrey and Cersei.

      Joffrey in particular would have likely treated her appallingly, as revenge for her embarrassing him at the inn and Nymeria wounding him.

      Plus, as the younger sister, she would’ve been more expendable, so may have been subject to worse treatment.

      Would Arya have been able to tolerate being betrothed to Joffrey after Ned’s murder? Or Tyrion after the Red Wedding? Would she have been able to sit and have dinner with the Lannisters and listen to Cersei talk about killing Robb? Or listen to Cersei tormenting her throughout the Battle of the Blackwater? What about having Littlefinger whispering in her ear the whole time? What might he have been able to coax her into doing?

      Honestly, it’s okay to acknowledge that Arya is fallible and might not have been able to struggle through and survive in different circumstances. Could she have survived? Anything is possible. But if we’re basing it on an honest assessment of her character and actions over the course of the series, then you would have to conclude that it’s unlikely. And that’s fine. It doesn’t make her any less of a great character.

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    33. Ramsay's 20th Good Man,

      No, there’s never been any question in my mind that Arya wouldn’t have lived or been able to go through what Sansa did (and vice versa). Arya wouldn’t have because she wouldn’t have allowed those things to happen to her. She would have either fled, killed (X) and then fled or been killed because of killing (X). Book!Arya was even more resourceful and surprisingly competent at such a young age. Still, both of them needed assistance from the right people at the right time to make it through predicaments.

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    34. Maisie and Sophie are adorable and so humorous in real life, such a contrast from their characters (Arya is one of my favourites). I still find it strange to see them as women having seen them grow from small children too, it’s an odd feeling even reading Maisie is now twenty one (she still looks about fifteen to me).

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    35. Ser Nobody:
      Does this sort of confirm that her final scene is likely a positive moment for Sansa? Meaning she’ll probably survive to the very end.

      Sadly yes but I can’t say it’s unexpected at this stage. I’m guessing she will be elected wardeness of the North.

        Quote  Reply

    36. Jack Bauer 24: The person that knew the exact date and time and contents of the first trailer are saying this Sunday the 31st. They don’t have any other info yet as to what time on Sunday or the contents of the promo. Could be an actual trailer or a promo like the “Crypts of Winterfell”.

      They did a “March Madness” trailer for Season 6 on March 26th 2016, so it could be a quick 30 second hype video like that https://youtu.be/dKrhgVFTI6I

      Also, with the Veep and Barry premieres Sunday night, it could be a lead in to one of those.

      Hmmm. This person was spot on last time but I really don’t feel we need another trailer at this late stage, the red carpet premiere is next week that will generate enough hype on it’s own and we’ve had a ton of press junkets this week too.

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