“The Winds of Winter” was loaded with action and dramatic turns, and our heads are still spinning. Thankfully, Game of Thrones interviews are flowing freely this week, providing more insight into the key moments of the season finale.
Bella Ramsey has made a splash in her few appearances on Game of Thrones this season, as the ten-year-old Lady of Bear Island. Lyanna Mormont is a new fan favorite, and MakingGameofThrones speaks with Ramsey this week about her experience with the show.
On the huge fan reaction to her character, Bella says, “It’s crazy really. I didn’t expect anything like it. I am very, very happy that people like Lyanna Mormont. We had to keep it quiet that I had a part in GoT so now it’s out, my family have had lots of people they know contacting them, really excited they have seen me.”
Game of Thrones was her first filming experience, says the actress. She finds it difficult to name a favorite scene of hers (“I loved them all”). Discussing the finale, she says, “I loved Episode 10, but the room we were filming in was like an overheated sauna, so probably Episode 7 [“The Broken Man”]. Although, I also loved riding Iggy the horse, too.”
On playing the tough young lady, she says, “It was good, really good, being fierce. It all kind of comes naturally when I become Lyanna because it’s in her nature; it’s just who she is. I loved the script for Episode 10 [“The Winds of Winter”] – how she doesn’t care that she is the youngest person in the room, and proceeds to shame the three leaders.”
Bella has a lot more to say about her experience and her character over at MGoT.
![GOT610_110415_HS__DSC9766[1]](http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/GOT610_110415_HS__DSC97661-682x1024.jpg)
David Benioff and D.B. Weiss speak to Deadline about this season and the future of Game of Thrones. The showrunners reaffirm their comments in Variety from April, saying more or less the exact same thing and estimating there will “70-75 hours, and that’s what we’ll end up with. Call it 73 for now.” So we still have uncertain numbers for the endgame of the show, but an estimate that tells us the end is nigh.
Asked about female-centric vibe of the show, Benioff says among his remarks, “so many of the most interesting and formidable characters are women. The obstacles that stand between them and what they want are so much more formidable than the obstacles that face people in much of our lives…it was lots of fun and rewarding to think about the ways they could overcome obstacles and press their advantages and interests the way men would. You’d be hard pressed to call Cersei a heroine; she just blew up several thousand people, few of which had done her any particular wrong. But she’s a formidable severely flawed and damaged person.”
As for the question of whether Arya was targeting Jaime as well at the Twins, Benioff confirms that “the eyes she was making toward him were about who he was, and the murderous wheels of vengeance were spinning in his brain over how, maybe, she could get a two for one on this deal.” She stuck with her original plans however, and carried out only the hit on Walder. As Benioff notes, Jaime isn’t actually on her list.
Benioff and Weiss discuss much more at Deadline so you can the rest over there at the source.
One of the saddest casualties of the finale’s bloodbath was the teenage king Tommen, who committed suicide after his mother blew up the sept of Baelor. Actor Dean-Charles Chapman (who took over the role of Tommen in season 4) tells The Hollywood Reporter he learned of Tommen’s fate the night before the cast table-read, done before the filming of season 6.
He says, “I couldn’t have asked for a better way to have that news broken to me. Them telling me beforehand really helped me out, otherwise I would have been in a state when I read it in the scripts. I probably would have cried.”
As for Tommen’s death, Chapman is content with it. He tells THR, “He had a dark ending, but I was thankful about the way he went. Everyone on the show ends up getting their head blown off or squeezed, or stabbed. Tommen was a peaceful guy. And in a way, he goes out in a peaceful way. But a dark way. It’s sad.”
Discussing his death scene with MGoT, the actor explains the scene we saw was not the only version shot. “We tried a few different versions. The one that made the edit was more shell shock instead of Tommen bawling his eyes out and feeling sadness, anger or revenge. His number one priority – his wife – was in that Sept. He knows that it is game over for him. I think taking off the crown is Tommen giving up.”
His favorite scene from the series? “I’d probably choose the Ser Pounce scene in ‘Oathkeeper.’ That was my first day, so that meant a lot to me. It’s an iconic scene for Tommen with Ser Pounce and Margaery. It was a long, hard day, because the cat was a bit of a diva,” Chapman tells MGoT.
Here’s hoping the cat survived Cersei’s wildfire stunt.
The king is dead, long live Ser Pounce!
Lyanna Mormont was simply outstanding! When I first read her letter in ADWD, I was actually angry that she refused to help Stannis. I had no idea that the words came from such an awesome person and that out of all ASOIAF characters, this character will actually appear on TV.
Ser Pounce!
D&D are awesome
hodor
Lyanna Mormont, the true Queen in the North!!
I hope Lyanna Mormont returns next season. Keep that Jon PR machine going!
Didn’t Benioff and Weiss say the same thing months ago?
Lyanna Mormont > Sansa Stark
The top picture of Bella is so great. What a talent. I hope Lady Mormont returns in S7 – and has another scene with Iggy the horse. 🙂
And poor Tommen. After witnessing the explosion and realizing what kind of person his mother is, he chose death rather than be stuck with her again. RIP.
Jack Bauer 24,
For me,
Lyanna Mormont > Lady Olenna 😉
This is OT: but I was talking to a friend over lunch and he was asking me about Raeghar/Robert/Lyanna/Mad King stuff.
He asked me why the king went mad. I wasn’t sure how to answer. Was he always mad? Or was it because his family was slaughtered? Or was he kind of Mad (like Joffrey style), and then went epitome of mad after the slaughter of his family?
Is there any question that Lyanna Mormont might be the greatest GOT character EVERRRR
If you disagree I don’t want to hear it. She’s the greatest.
🙂
Which is why I said that and linked to the article from April where they said that. 🙂
(Cersei)
DEADLINE: She has lost all her children. Is her mindset now to just be a ruthless ruler?
WEISS: Not to give a frustrating answer, but that’s what so much of next season is going to be about; finding out what Cersei’s mind-set is. Who is she? While Cersei has certainly done a lot of horrible things in her life and she could be a very cruel person, the one thing that was redemptive about her was, she genuinely loved her children. Now they’re all gone, and I think that is very interesting for us. Who is she without her children? The answer is something you’ll find out next season. That’s so much of what is to come that I’ll just give it away if I start delving into it now.
So interesting!
Dee Stark,
No he actually started out well if I recall but kind of descended into madness. Rhaella wasn’t able to bear children for a while and a bunch of them died and he started lashing out at her.
But I think you’re meant to believe there is something inherent in being a Targ that makes one prone to madness, even though the Mad King actually became mad over a range of time, because of real happenings
Dee Stark,
The Targaryens were infamous for having a chance of having “madness” in them (that’s what happens when you procreate with your siblings for generations!). The books (or maybe the show? it all runs together) mention that when a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin on their sanity, or lack thereof. Aerys wasn’t nuts at the beginning of his reign; he became paranoid of his enemies a bit later in life and it just kind of escalated from there. We see hints of that madness in Dany, when she wanted to burn every slave city to the ground in S6E9, but Tyrion talks her off the ledge.
Aerys’ family wasn’t wiped out until after he was dead.
The show hasn’t really gotten into that. From the books:
The most interesting part of D&D’s interview is their comments on the Night King. There’s been considerable debate in the fandom as to whether the White Walkers can be reasoned with, etc., with some arguing they’re actually good and trying to achieve some higher end. This interview nukes that sort of talk — the producers clearly view the Night King and his men as murder machines who don’t really have a choice and can’t be swayed from what they were created to do.
I thought the BEST answer was about the Night’s King. The Others are just Death, essentially.
Some here (I remember Wimsey) talked about developing the Others’ “culture” or even some sort of detente or understanding of the WWs as some alternate civilization. That never jived to me with the history of Westeros – after all, this is NOT the first Long Night. The Others have come once and had to be utterly destroyed before. Why would they negotiate now, with the realm in disarray?
I appreciate the show has basically understood that from a show/visual perspective, to have the Night’s King sit down and have a conversation would ruin just about everything we feel about him and the Others. I am 1000000% ok with the WWs just being the enemy, full stop.
GRRM might do things differently (I doubt it though)
Dee Stark,
Or was it because Bran told him to burn the white walkers and he got stuck on it like hodor?
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Nadia,
Thank you!!!!
Dee Stark,
Many Targaryens were mentally unstable because of incestous breeding, which was very common in the family and Aerys was surely among them. While Tywin was Aerys’s hand (for 20 years), things were pretty normal, although there was some serious tension between them, mostly because of Tywin’s wife. Aerys grew incredibly paranoid when he was captured by House Darklyn of Duskendale. While Tywin intended to defeat the Darklyns, he didn’t actually want to save Aerys. Aerys only survived because ser Barristan Selmy rescued him and responded by beheading every single member of house Darklyn. Soon after that, Tywin offered Cersei to Rhaegar, but Aerys insulted him, wed Rhaegar to Elia Martell and named Jaime as one of the Kingsguard, robbing Tywin of his heir. Furious, Tywin resigned his position as Hand and then things really went out of control.
One of his most vile acts were executions of Rickard and Brandon Stark shortly before the rebellion started. When Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna who was betrohed to Robert, her brother Brandon rode to KL and demanded the prince’s head. Aerys arrested him for treason and sent for his father to ransom him. When lord Rickard arrived, he arrested him as well. Lord Rickard demanded a trial by combat and Aerys named fire as his champion. He hanged lord Rickard by his arms above the pyre, put a strangulation device around Brandon’s neck and placed a sword beyond his reach. Lord Rickard was boiled alive in his armor while his son strangled himself while trying to reach the sword. After that, Aerys demanded the heads of Eddard Stark and Robert Baratheon, just to make sure no one will avenge their loved ones. And then, the rebellion started.
Sean C.,
Thank you! makes sense
Lord Parramandas,
wow.
thank you
is that in the books? which book?
Dee Stark,
The story about House Darklyn is from book 4 and the other stuff is scattered through the books as well. The stuff about Rickard and Brandon Stark is as well explained in Histories and Lore (season 1).
Dems fightin’ words!!! 😉 Hardly anyone is greater than Olenna.
https://www.google.com/search?q=olenna+tyrell+gif&espv=2&biw=1172&bih=593&tbm=isch&imgil=a4kzcQaZe_AkkM%253A%253BW6yYfbUsYQ4W8M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.wetpaint.com%25252Folenna-tyrell-quotes-1442128%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=a4kzcQaZe_AkkM%253A%252CW6yYfbUsYQ4W8M%252C_&usg=__ThHLH4PBDtN-sHvZR7sT5B7rB3s%3D&ved=0ahUKEwi7jZTarcvNAhVO2mMKHSBVD_gQyjcINQ&ei=scJyV_vwDs60jwOgqr3ADw#imgdii=a4kzcQaZe_AkkM%3A%3Ba4kzcQaZe_AkkM%3A%3Bf_2VPSmxekq4OM%3A&imgrc=a4kzcQaZe_AkkM%3A
Lord Parramandas,
and then?
rhymeswithweak,
Then he died.
Sue, I don’t know where to post this request, but is it possible to have a main page thread at some point in the near future of like random crazy theorizing/where we go from here?
Things like –
Which sword is going to be Lightbringer – Longclaw, Heartsbane, Oathkeeper, maybe Dawn?
– and then who is Nissa Nissa
Where does Bran go next – the Wall, Winterfell or…. Greywater Watch (yes please)
etc
Would be fun to have one wild speculation thread now that we’re all totally off the (book) reservation
Lord Parramandas,
I haven’t watched those yet
Each season has one right?
Is it still rumored that the show will be broken up into 6 episodes next season and 6 episodes a following season? That would play out to maybe extended episodes of a total of 3 hours somewhere.
I hope they don’t drag this out all year and announce the episode order for Season 7 soonish.
JCDavis,
Nice! But, Lady Lyanna is still young, give her time – she’ll have an impressive resume too.
🙂
Lord Of Lite,
Season 7 will be 7 episodes. That’s confirmed at this point.
Season 8’s episode count is as yet undetermined. But it will almost certainly be either 6 or 7.
It’s weird that they are still so unsure about the number of episodes.
I mean, surely by now they must know how many episodes Season 7 will have. The scripts have to be done by now.
I’d love to see all the storylines scattered out among the 7 kingdoms and Dany and Company interacting with everyone on her way North to the Final Resolution.
Dee Stark,
Yes. It’s a pretty good stuff because characters from the series narrate the events and you get many perspectives.
Markus Stark,
They’ve said 7 episodes for season 7 in multiple places, as have directors.
I think the ambiguity is on the last season. It looks like they’re between 6-8 episodes for that. 6 episodes makes it 73 hours, which is what they look like they’re leaning to.
I too always assumed it was the product of several generations of inbreeding – although unfortunately as we know from real life, terrible people occasionally appear without genetic or environmental precedent.
Although he wasn’t “evil”, Mad King Aerys always evoked Mad King George for me. George III developed dementia (possibly due to porphyria), and his son became regent until he died. The other example is Richard II who famously became tyrannical in later life (and ended up being deposed and killed for it).
Sean C.,
Thanks.
Lord Parramandas,
and then?
(last one I promise)
Lord Parramandas,
Lol. Pretty much.
https://twitter.com/WightsKing/status/747768950415572992
Lol!
rhymeswithweak,
Jon Snow was born, Robert became a king and Jaime was forever known as Kingslayer.
Nadia,
I’d honestly be willing to wait a year and a half or more to get the final 13-15 episodes at the same time, but I understand why they aren’t doing that.
I hope Season 8 is 8 episodes, if there is enough material for it. I don’t want them stretching things out needlessly, or having filler-y scenes of the “Missandei, Grey Worm and Tyrion get drunk” variety, but I also don’t want things to be rushed.
13 episodes just doesn’t seem like enough to wrap up all the loose ends we have dangling. I hope they go for 15.
Nadia,
Yeah, I agree. I threw names in the last thread to talk about.
It is a long off season but there’s lots to speculate!
WotW could do more of their 1,2,3 what do think will happen threads periodically maybe?
Markus Stark,
A reminder that people keep saying but no one actually knows what’s left dangling. Think of how much story line one episode along changes.
iridium,
The Mad King wasn’t particularly inbred by Targaryen standards — indeed, in the show he may not have been inbred at all in the recent past, based on changes.
Jack Bauer 24,
we should know by the end or beginning of July perhaps if we are lucky.
rhymeswithweak,
Yeah! or a seaons rewatch thread. I think at some point in the next year (YEAR WAHHHHH) I’m going to do a rewatch. I think it’ll be fascinating to go back and see how all these clues were planted in ways we didn’t even notice.
Robert/Cersei talking about how dangerous one leader would be with an army united behind them, completely loyal to their purpose – Robert worried about Viserys, but actually that’s Dany. And he knew that a divided realm wouldn’t stand a chance against that leader.
So I wonder if there’s going to be any REAL resistance to Dany. Would be lame to have her just waltz into Westeros.
When you watch, you realize how literally every scene serves a purpose larger than its own.
not trying to be snarky at all, but i thought that is what the forums were for. admittedly, i only discovered the forums just a few short weeks ago.
Nadia,
I am. And the answer is “not that much”. Aside from rare episodes like “Home”, “Mother’s Mercy”, or “The Winds of Winter”, most episodes only manage to make significant progress on a couple of stories. Overall, it generally takes about 3 episodes for every story thread to move forward in a meaningful way, and sometimes more.
I mean even the extremely eventful finale we got this year couldn’t touch on everything, let alone progress everything.
Jaynee D.,
People don’t really frequent the forums, and since there’s presumably going to be more limited main page content for the next while and we have no idea where anything is going, why not.
Markus Stark,
And yet one episode CAN take out a whole bunch of plots at a time.
If we are in the endgame, and there’s no reason to think we’re not, why do you think that there’s so much left to cover? You don’t really know that there is, to be very honest. It’s just your assumption of what’s important.
Maybe I’m wrong but I get the feeling GRRM is turning off the valve and not giving them any more info and they want to end it with what they have, as close to what he originally told them the endgame was that they can. If so, that’s a shame, it’s nobody’s fault but his that he has published 2 books in 15 years. I like GRRM but at least with the show, the story will be finished. The butthurt is disappointing.
Seriously, where is Ghost?
Nadia,
No. The Others are “deathlessness.” The robbing of people from the gift of death. That’s the real evil in the show. The unnatural forces that defy death. And I fear that Jon Snow’s resurrection from death will have consequences that we haven’t begun to discuss yet.
ugashep,
I think the producers have enough information to properly end the show. He revealed the end game before season 1 and he revealed them even more information a couple years later such as Stannis burning Shireen, Hold the Door…
Markus Stark,
I would expect narrative progression to be a lot faster in the remaining seasons. The storylines have been consolidated to the lowest number since early Season 1.
There are now basically three major locations (Winterfell, King’s Landing, wherever Dany is), plus a handful of satellite ones. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect most stories to get 10-15 minutes an episode at least.
I assume its budget reasons for season 8,which will be reviewed again based on the success of season 7.
Moondoor,
I don’t think it relates to budget — indeed, by the time Season 7 airs they will have already had to make a decision about the size of Season 8. Rather, HBO wants more episodes, the showrunners seem to want fewer. So it’s a tug of war, though we’re only talking about an episode or two’s difference.
Tommen, you liar…your favorite scene was the sex scene with Marge
Lyanna over Sansa any day!
I hope Lyanna and Olenna meet one day, finally a worthy opponent for the QOT! Though them getting along when talking about all these oafs seems rather satisfying as well.
Nadia,
I didn’t even know people used the forums until you said this.
OMG the ENTIRE season leaked. That is terrible.
Its funny because before episode 5 people were talking about Hold the door, and I really thought people were smart and figured it out, when in fact it was known
hahahah now I don’t know who was really speculating or who was pretending hahaha omg so funny
also – the episode 9 hate thread? wtf hahaah
That’s very well said and put !
I really look forward to the adaptations of various character in those bigger plots (for instance, a Theon – Grey Worm scene could be amazing), and with the melting down of so many storylines, we could be in for quite interesting character meetings (most notably in the Dany camp) !
And really curious to see how long the satelittes storylines will hold as that before they meet another arc, and another, and finally back the big one… (like Sam, meeting Jorah, meeting Euron, meeting Dany, who knows… or the Hound / Brotherhood meeting Brienne and Pod and then meeting Jon and Sansa…)
Dee Stark,
I didn’t even know about it! I only found it after episode 7 myself, but it doesn’t seem like they’re that popular.
Lol and that last subject you just posted is probably just why most people never use it lollll
I’ve always wondered why Jaime was never on Arya’s list. He not only killed Jory Cassel (directly in the show, indirectly in the books) but the wounding of Ned Stark prevented him from leaving the city and led to his ultimate death. I suppose the Jaime was still a prisoner when she first made her list, but I’m surprised she hasn’t since decided to target him.
Dee Stark,
BOOK SPOILERS AHEAD (for the Mad King’s backstory. Nothing of this is ever going to appear on the show)
It should be noted that, when he was 15, his grandfather Egg tried to bring back the dragons in Summerhall, in an event that likely involved magic. Most of the royal family died, and Aerys was likely affected by it, both psychologically and physically, since neither he nor his wife had a healthy child for 17 years.
Don’t ask me why but somehow I got it in my head the reduced episode count was partly because the reasons you name but also partly due to the increased time needed per episode and time equals money
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/game-of-thrones-end-date-season-8-1201752746/
Then that couldn’t affect the total episode count, but instead the # episodes per season?
Dzhon,
The list for the most part started there at King’s landing with Syrio vs Meryn Fucking Trant and basically everyone apart of Ned’s beheading in front of her.
Jaime didn’t really outwardly wrong her in front of her or that she is aware of.
That’s my guess.
Jack Bauer 24,
Yeah… She was so cool.
Hopefully D&D give her a part next season on Jon’s Small Council because her truthful, no nonsense logic is something he should value.
Tywin of the Hill,
I plan to read the books but don’t care for book spoilers any more as long as they don’t spoil the show
Thank you for the explanation
Kuki,
I am hoping D&D give Ghost a CGI remake for the last two seasons.
It is 2016, it has to be way more affordable then their original estimates when they started the show years ago.
They are doing two shorter and more densely packed quality seasons, perfect time to get the 2011 ‘Red Riding Hood’ CGI dire wolf…
But I am probably only dreaming!
Nadia,
Of course, it’s just my speculation. I never said I knew for certain.
I said I hoped for 15 episodes if there was enough material. And I suspect, based on a number of educated guesses, that there is enough material, and if that is indeed the case, I hope they don’t compress it too much. Obviously I may be very wrong about how much is left.
It’s a bit disappointing IMO. I have had this theory in my mind for years that Jon sacrifices himself to become a bridge piece in a WW-human pact (Jon being Ice & Fire).
Maybe there was a pact originally but the men just forgot it and distorted the history. This would also explain the huge ice wall (which is so massive that it’s implausible that humans built it). Maybe WW:s built it to fulfill a condition from the pact.
Arthur,
I so agree…
I know they wanted to go with real wolves and I salute them for it, and I know a CGI direwolf will definitly not look as good, but there are ways to render a quite not so bad CGI hairy creature these days (the hair is a CGI nightmare) so I really wish they’d go for it !
Especially if Nymeria’s pack ever shows up, there’ll be no other way than to go CGI (at least for the wide shots, and even for the close ones, I think filming that much real dogs will be even more nightmarish than CGIng them !)
I don’t generally support the direwolves complaint BUT –
felt a tiny bit disappointed that Ghost was totally missing when Jon was declared the White Wolf. Not one split second scene of Ghost in Winterfell? 🙁
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Sean C.,
Of course, you are right about faster story progression. Nevertheless, I think people underestimate the number of stories still remaining when they are discussing things casually.
If you actually break it down, there are still quite a few arcs, and there is no reason to assume that all characters that currently share a story will continue to do so. Some characters will undoubtedly part ways and have separate arcs (I’m mainly thinking of Jon/Sansa and Tyrion/Dany here, because I definitely do not think those characters will be in the same locations as each other for the duration of the endgame ; I suspect things will be shuffled around quite a bit actually).
We still have :
– the North : Jon, Sansa, and Littlefinger (the climax of LF’s story should take several episodes to unfold as well, so don’t expect him to be dealt with too quickly)
– the White Walkers/seeing what Winter actually looks like
– the War for the Iron Throne (KL, Dany’s invasion, Euron, Cersei’s reign, the fate of the Seven Kingdoms, etc..)
– the climax of Cersei and Jaime’s stories
– Sam
– Arya
– Bran
– Brienne/Jaime resolution
– the Hound and the Brotherhood
– Jorah ?
– Melisandre ?
– will there be resolution between Jaime and Tyrion ?
And I’m probably still forgetting a lot of stuff as well.
Obviously many of these characters, stories and arcs will intersect, others will come to an end, but I’m just saying there is still a lot going on.
A neat wrap up in 13 episodes would be impressive.
Cersei’s smile…perfect lolllll
Well if we only get two more seasons, six episodes each, but each episode is a Hardhome/Mother’s Mercy/Battle of the Bastards/The Winds of Winter scale episode with no “filler” scenes….yeah, I’m okay with that. They said that before, quality over quantity, finally. And because each episode is so huge they won’t have enough money to produce 10 episodes just for the hell of it; giant scenes coming up.
Part of me suspects this is a negotiation tactic, but whatever.
It is hard for me to reconcile D&D saying they have great writing for female characters on the show with Sansa’s storyline from Season 5 through Season 6.
Arkash,
There are easy ways to work around the hair issues though. Lighting…
Basically, give Ghost scenes at night or in low lite areas. I already linked this on another thread but the Red Riding Hood movie is from 2011 and a perfect example. This CGI tech is from 2010. Also, Red Riding Hood wasn’t a huge budgeted film so it really shouldn’t be that expensive to do now.
Basically, for way less money they spend on Drogon, if D&D give us some low lite Ghost appearances sprinkled in throughout the last two seasons, like they do with Dany’s Dragons, I highly doubt the cost would break the bank and I think it is probably more efficient then using a real wolf on set, and using CGI to alter its size later.
Maybe I am wrong but I hope D&D at least look into it.
My only disappointments this season was the Arya storyline and lack of Ghost.
And I know a lot of people don’t care if Ghost makes an appearance every few episodes with Jon but I also know many people do love seeing him, so Ghost is worth the investment. It really brings the “other world” type, escape from reality to life when watching the show.
Arthur,
As over-the-moon as I am about the season, I missed Ghost so much. It kind of broke my heart when I read the interview with Sapochnik where he said originally, Ghost was all over BoB, but they had to choose between Wun-Wun and Ghost. I tell myself it was worth not having him there if he was going to die, but still, to know he was a big part of it in the original plan…:(
My hope is we’ll see more of him, again, moving forward.
Hey, maybe we should start a Ghost in Season 7 gofundme page. If everyone who watched the finale in the US (the ones included in the initial viewing numbers, that is) just donated $1, that would already be an $8.9 million budget for Ghost. Add subsequent viewers, plus the additional viewers not included in the intial US number (namely, everyone else in the rest of the world who watched the finale), we’d get some good Ghost time. 🙂 😉
I thought the horse’s name was Ziggy, as in zig-zag, as in, what Rickon should have done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQkHLDhmSNE&t=2211s
Just saw this… LOL at 36:00 “I think [Jon and Daenerys] are either gonna fight or f*ck” hahaha oh Kit
Somewhat OT, a friend of mine just sent me a link for a really interesting Reddit link, about how Jon could be named after Jaehaerys Targaryen. There’s all sorts of interesting things in there that make it a really fascinating option for Rhaegar (and GRRM lol) to have named him.
He also married his sister-wife Alysanne, which my friend thinks sounds very similar to Alayne.
It’s all I’m sure really off base, but man fans of this show know their stuff!
https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/4q9u0v/everything_his_name_is_the_true_meaning_of_j/
Rhaenys Stark,
Hahah omg I’ve never seen this!!! Lol and GRRM is there? It’s definitely happening LOLLLL
Nadia,
Well, at least he has a “good” Targaryen name. Jaehaerys I. was one of the best kings in Westeros. Imagine him being named Maegor or Aerys…
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
I would like D&D to publish the initial script of the BoB.
Nadia,
Yep. Wimsey and Hodor’s Bastard had theorized about that before.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Haha I thought of something like that before but with Drogon and dire wolf stuffed animals and such!
It could be on the HBO site or amazon and state something like “50% of prfites from these stuffed animals will be dedicated towards season x CGI budget”.
That would be cool cuz we can all buy a few and feel like we each added a microsecond of screen time for Drogon and/or Ghost.
Hah!
Lord Parramandas,
Sean C.,
To both of you…THANK YOU for the cliff notes version. Both highlight why I think the Targaryens are nutballs. And why, no matter how other characters in the books or show try to pump him up as some wonderful man, I hate Rhaegar and put the blame squarely on his shoulders for the death of so many.
Of course without his stupidity and complete disregard for his wife and children, we wouldn’t have the books or show so, I guess he was good for something.
Lord Parramandas,
Yeah and if you read the stories of BOTH Jaehaerys’ it would make sense why Rhaegar would want it, while narrative-wise the parallel makes sense for GRRM.
Interesting thoughts!
Oh Sophie, you’re really ruining things for me. Sigh…
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-spoilers-jon-sansa-littlefinger-marry-theory-sophie-turner-1201805047/
What’s going through Sansa’s mind in those final moments as Jon’s being declared King in the North?
She’s not getting the credit she feels she deserves, that Littlefinger would grant her with. He obviously wants her on the Iron Throne and him by her side – she doesn’t want that, but she wants recognition for the effort that she put in, in order to claim back Winterfell, because if it wasn’t for her, it wouldn’t have happened. So I think she’s seeing Littlefinger as a bit more trustworthy and more of an ally than she initially thought.
Would discovering that Jon is her cousin change anything for Sansa, in terms of where they currently stand with each other?
Yeah, definitely. Sansa always took her mother’s side on that. She was always influenced by her mother’s resentment towards Jon because of Ned allegedly cheating on her and bringing back an illegitimate child, so finding out that Ned never cheated, that Jon isn’t an illegitimate child of Ned’s, would probably bring them closer together. I think at this point where there could be a lot of rifts in their relationship, it’s good to have something that would probably draw them closer together.
Does she feel like she has more of a claim on Winterfell than anyone else at this point?
Totally… She tirelessly has worked so hard to get Winterfell back and constantly been battling with these men, trying to prove herself as a real contender and a real player, and she kind of feels like she deserves the recognition for it, but she’s not satisfied now. I think she’s got a lot more things on her checklist to do before she’s completely satisfied.
Nadia,
The logic, I believe, was that George was a conscientious objector during Vietnam and so would have a pacifist’s ending. However, George has said that there are scenarios where fighting is justified. I believe he cited WWII. Much like the Hound found, there is a time for every purpose under heaven.
Fun trivia: Dontos Hollard, the drunk knight who was saved by Sansa and made to be Joffrey’s fool and who in Season 4 gives Sansa the poison necklace was the last surviving member of his House. He says as much to her in the show. What the show doesn’t say is that House Hollard were vassals to House Darklyn and helped capture Aerys during the so-called Defiance of Duskendale that Lord Parramandas mentioned. That’s why his whole family was executed afterward. Dontos was left alive only because Ser Barristan asked the King to spare him.
That’s one of the joys of reading Martin’s books: they are incredibly, mindbogglingly full of such little details and character connections that make the world seem vast and alive. The series, which is next to BSG my favorite show of all time, just doesn’t have the time nor space to fit in all this background info. What’s even more crazy, among all this seemingly irrelevant stuff Martin likes to hide bits and pieces that are actually extremely important for future plot and character developments: foreshadowing, various hints and clues, etc.
Hey – it would be so good. All that’s needed is a occasional glimpse of that snowy head against Snow’s shoulder, really…
Just a very wee glimpse in this last episode would have worked well.
Nadia,
Sophie’s being Sophie
Jon gave her all the credit
And the men in the room were just looking at the one who almost died in the process
Whatever . Not gonna let that take away from my king in the north hahaha
If Sansa ever hurts Jon I will be very disappointed
But I really don’t think it’s going to happen she would never do that
LF is going to think she’s turning on Jon but in fact she will turn on LF
Jon over anyone for me
70-75 hours would seem to end the speculation that the episodes will be supersized.
And me ?
Nadia,
Don’t listen to Sophie.What happens on the show and what she says very rarely are the same thing.
Nadia,
After watching ToJ again, I am convinced that she does say Jaehaerys. Wow – never occurred to me that Jon would have another name but it does make sense. Thanks for sharing!
Nadia,
Oh my that’s great! I believe it now xD All hail King Jaehaerys III Targaryen !
That is a reasonable guess. It is clearly three syllables and ends with “ys”. Having alliteration with the first letter makes sense as well.
Btw I get confused between the show and the book.
Has the SHOW made Dany barren?? People keep talking about that but I forget.
I thought Dany’s issue was that she can only have her dragons OR children. But since I believe the end of all this is that magic – direwolves, dragons, maybe even Bran – leave the world – I think Dany’s dragons all die in the WW fight. So she CAN have children?
Or am I confusing the show
It’s not just Sophie and D&D. There is enough in the books to show that Grrm might be headed in this direction as well if you consider Robb’s will floating around and trying to make it’s way to Winterfell, which is probably where Jon will head when he’s able to.n And Lf promising Sansa Winterfell as her wedding gift:
every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright. So those are your gifts from me, my sweet Sansa…Harry, the Eyrie, and Winterfell.
The exact same “tension” may very well occur in the books and in very much the same way.
Ser Pounce FTW,
I know, I’ve said as much. I think there’s very much a potential that Sansa DOES turn against her family / Jon IN THE BOOKS, and this isn’t fake actor drama.
Well, at this point everyone’s projected very clearly that Sansa is jealous of Jon and not happy about what happened. I think it’s a little bit of wishful thinking to think she’s playing LF outright, rather than actually trusting him or believing he wants her interests.
When I watched the godswood scene, my first thought was that she was kind of taken by the idea that someone wanted to give her so much power before she snapped out of it. You even see her kind of take a breath and shake her head to snap out of it.
I don’t think that’s what’s happening, but why is it so unbelievable for people that GRRM or D&D would have Sansa turn against her family? The whole point of the show and books in some ways is that war and life does horrible things to people, changes them in ways beyond what you’d ever think.
Do we really believe the Starks will be the only family where every single member, no matter what they go through, will stay completely and totally loyal to each other and never turn on each other? That to me seems improbable with the kind of show this is.
Again, I don’t think this is happening, but it seems odd to me that people reject as out of the realm of possibility that Sansa could in fact turn against Jon. It would SHOCK me if the end of all this is a united and loving Stark family.
ugashep,
Pretty sure D & D already have all the major plot points from Martin. They may have thought he would be farther along with finishing the books by now (lol!) but before agreeing to buy the rights to an unfinished book series I would expect they reviewed at least a rough outline of the whole story with him prior to starting the series so they would be covered in case they did have to move the show past the books.
But I do agree with you that Martin is butthurt about the show now surpassing him. I read a comment somewhere a couple days ago that he has not mentioned the show even once on his blog since the season began. This is the show that made him rich and famous but he is pretending it doesn’t exist I guess. How childish. I’ve also seen comments elsewhere from people supposedly in the know that HBO has become very frustrated that Martin will do nothing to try and curb his sycophants and minions from publicly bashing the show and spreading spoilers.
Of course if the show is nominated for a bunch of Emmys again I’m sure he will be front and center at all the events.
I’d be very surprised if Cersei is any different that the power-hungry woman we’ve already known. Has she evolved at all from the little girl that threw her friend down the well for implying she could take Jaime away from Cersei? She was always willing to go as far as necessary to get what she wants and now that she’s had a taste of extreme power, I don’t see her finding any type of satisfaction. Nor do I see her becoming particularly introspective after losing her children. She didn’t in the books when she lost Jaime. If anything, all her worse features will probably become more prominent.
I’d say season 7 seems to be setting up Cersei against the world: Jaime, Dany and any one else that will dare to stand in her way.
From what they said, he initially only told them who sat on the throne, or something like that. Between writing Season 3 and writing Season 4 they sat down and got more extensive notes about where he envisioned the various characters going.
Two things. First, I am by no means rejecting the idea that Sansa might turn against her family. That was the original purpose of her character and while that purpose might be different now, it might still be the same. I think die hard Sansa fans are really not excited by that though because the Starks are the family many want to root for and no one wants their favorite to be anti-Stark. In fact, the hoops some fans jump through to exonerate Sansa for her decisions is truly amusing.
Pity, that. Sansa’s arc so far, seems to be on track for being one of the most interesting, if it is truly going from dreamer to strategist. Or from bird in a gilded cage to she wolf. I’m not sure her arc needs to keep her pristine and “good” for it to be enjoyed. But to each his own.
Next point, even if Sansa is jealous of Jon and works with LF for a time to get what she believes is her birthright, it hardly means she’ll succeed nor does it mean she won’t try to get everything she wants: Winterfell and no LF. She can still plot to take him down while pursuing her rights. These actions aren’t exclusive. She might surprise us all.
What gives you that feeling? I haven’t seen anything to imply that Martin is withholding information if asked for it. Is this something you think or something you’ve read/seen?
Ser Pounce FTW,
There is ZERO to support this except for those who irrationally hate GRRM, the creator of all these stories and characters that we love, because he isn’t finishing a series he’s under no obligation to finish.
The amount of entitlement over how and when he writes is really disturbing to me.
He might never finish the books and while I would be so sad, he doesn’t fucking owe me anything, and the way people insult him or spin conspiracy theories of him undermining the show is just ridiculous.
Well, in the show he would be Jaehaerys II. Targaryen because the second Jaehaerys does not exist in TV continuity.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BHNKV8LA4nN/
Yeah she’s definitely the “young stunner” from the casting call. I know someone suggested it was the girl Arya was impersonating at the Twins, but no, it was for Lyanna.
Nadia,
The show like the books made Daeny barren after the stillbirth of her child. However, at the end of book 5 when Daeny
Maybe it will come up later in convo.
Personally, I would’ve liked the writers to include this right before she burnt the Khals up. Perfect opportunity to do so.
ramses,
Thank you! I’m confused now what the show has said about her being barren. Is it totally unaddressed?
I know in the books there’s a prophecy and MANY people think it means she ISN’T barren.
They better not pull a GreatJon on Lyanna and Robett.
I’ve decided I need my own pocket sized Lyanna Mormont so when I start to act like a little bitch, she’s there to set me straight. Seriously.
As a book reader
Jack Bauer 24,
The casting call specified that the Young Stunner would have multiple scenes with a twist at the end. Lyanna had only one scene, and it’s dubious whether the existence of the baby would count as a twist of the sort that would be mentioned in the casting call.
ramses,
Yeah I just can’t remember in terms of the show what we’ve been told.
Can someone answer? on the show is Dany barren?
Sean C.,
maybe she’s the young actress in the troupe?
Or we see Lyanna Stark again next season (with Rhaegar)
All these great actors, directors, stuntmen, production crew, then you have the shit writing and story development. Bryan Cogman, Dan Weiss, and David Benioff should have been fed to the hounds instead of Ramsay.
Nadia,
No, the filming dates for the Young Stunner were different than for the troupe characters. I’d say the Young Stunner was clearly Arya’s disguise; it fits the description perfectly, with multiple scenes and a twist relating to the role at the end.
Series finale two hours long would be awesome. Just lay it on thick to bring it to a close.
There was some incredible writing this season. What exactly was shit about it? Im sure you could pick a scene here or there, but not in total…
Nadia,
She tells Khal Moro that:
I will bear no children, for you or anyone else. Not until the sun rises in the west and sets in the east
Nadia,
Yep. It’s almost hilarious, though, how much Sophie doesn’t get that these moments make the Jon fans furious.
What are you most proud of in Sansa’s evolution, since Season 6 was such a turning point for her?
The moment when she really stood up to Jon when they were having that battle planning [session] the night before the battle, that was probably when I was the most proud of her and most proud of what she’s achieved. You really see how far she’s come, going head to head with her older brother, which was basically unheard of in those times on which it’s loosely based. I thought it was an incredibly strong moment for her. He didn’t listen, but she proved him wrong.
Thought with the end of season 6 HBO would make some kind of announcement about season 7 episodes. Two directors have repeated D&D ‘wishes’ , but nothing from the money men. I think HBO is scared that Westworld will crap out and they have nothing big to follow on.
Boojam,
My hope is B. Cogman gets D&D’s blessing, assembles a writer/production crew and talks to the HBO CEO about Robert’s Rebellion.
HBO already has the greatest series making machine in place doing GoT, B. Cogman and his crew can just have D&D hand them over the reins and bring us another Westeros epic that would keep the huge core fanbase intact and tuning in every Sunday night in Spring…
I honestly think there is zero chance some kind of spinoff doesn’t happen, there has got to be one and I can’t see why there wouldn’t be.
This. I’m not even sure Sophie understands the Sansa character anymore. Some of her recent comments have been on the bizarre side and leave a lot to be desired.
http://www.vulture.com/2016/06
Sapochnik on the hardest scene to shoot in the finale.
Nadia,
For me, that meant she’d fly east on Drogon to get to Westeros. If you fly about Mach 2 on earth, you are going faster than the sun moves around the earth (really the earth spinning on its axis). And so at that speed she could outrun the sun and watch it set behind her, in the west, and then eventually meet the sun again as it rises in front of her, the east. So, from Dany’s and Drogon’s perspectives only, the sun would rise in the east and set in the west. This prophecy is also in the show, but it may not play out in the show.
Nadia,
Inherent? No, inherited. The Targs intermarried, interbreeding created madness.
Sean C.,
She had a wee scene in BomB where everyone thought there was a cesarean gash. I’m glad we confirmed it was the blood-soaked linens.
It’s possible it could be Cogman and Dave Hill who wrote an episode season 6. Cogman had some kind of development deal about two years ago, but have heard nothing more about that.
In fact GRRM has a development deal ,with HBO also, but nothing about that either.
Nadia,
I REFUSE TO BELIEVE OTHER WISE
*lalallala*
Ginevra,
Darkrobin,
Yeah, this quote always struck me as leaving the door open for it. People say there’s no point in Jon/Dany (if they both live, which I doubt) because Dany can’t have children. But I think if her dragons die, she can indeed have Targ babies.
But I doubt the ending will be so neat. Count me as not on the Jon/Dany romance bandwagon, even though that seems where all of this is going.
Dee Stark,
LOLLL how can I disagree with you with such foolproof logic 😉 😉 I’ll join your prayer circle.
Also I can confirm that she was stunning.
Jack Bauer 24,
I don’t know why, but I never ever thought they were outdoors or anywhere cold – thought it would all be CGI.
Bella is an instant hit. Love that kid. Love Lyanna Mormont.
I felt for Tommen. He really did love Margaery. He really had no chance in this game. Dammit, Cersei. I’ll never forget his interaction with Tywin. Great job, Dean.
Jack Bauer 24,
that link isn’t working; can you repost it?
I don’t blame her really. The writing in itself is confusing and so are the writers (D and D) comments in the interviews.
Sansa offs Ramsay by feeding him to his dogs: It’s supposed to be a great moment for Sansa
Arya offing Walder Frey who orchestrated the RW: We are supposed to be worried for Arya committing murder.
Especially this season, they have written the show in such a way as to say that GOT is about ‘GIRL POWER’. So it stands that the scene between Jon and Sansa was supposed to be that Jon knows nothing and was wrong and Sansa was right. But at the same time, the plot demanded that only Sansa knows about the Vale army and so she had to keep that secret.
So in a sense I think the show and the writers were going for what Sophie is saying in her interviews. But the bad writing and the way Sophie plays Sansa is telling us just the opposite and the audience is interpreting it in a different manner. I don’t think it’s entirely Sophie’s fault.
So wait, the Knights of the Vale pledged to Jon? Makes sense – it’s an opportunity to get out from under LF and Robin Arryn is a gross dweeb anyway.
So what power does LF have now, other than his whispered suggestions to Sansa? He’s going to be working extra hard to woo her now.
And we’re meant to assume the North believes Jon about the WWs right? And Ramsay heard that he’s the most legendary swordsman. If he heard that, and believe about the WWs, and NO ONE is asking him about leaving the NWs…. do they know he’s been resurrected?
The king is dead! Long live Ser Pounce!
Bella as Lyanna Mormont is awesome.
Now apparently to some people Daeny is the baby based on Lyanna’s casting. She looks a lot like Emilia and Daeny herself. Coincidence?
I think the site is down right now. He said the hardest scene to shoot was the end scene with Dany and company sailing for Westeros. Sapochnik said they only had one boat and they had to redress it over and over again for the different ones we see. It was also freezing out and raining and Emilia was having a hard time with the weather condition. Sapochnik told her to hum the GoT theme in her head and it worked and she got through it on the first take!
http://www.vulture.com/2016/06/miguel
So where is sweet robin? Royce and LF were at Winterfell. Did they leave him behind?
Nadia,
The Targs did have a tendency toward madness, I’m guessing it was because of all the inbreeding.
I read an article earlier I can’t find it again, basically Lena saying that blowing up the sept was mild compared to what they had planned…anyone know any details?
Nadia,
I dou they will do the nissa nissa character on the show.
No, she said the Septa Unella part was mild to what they originally had planned.
Jack Bauer 24,
Ahh, that makes more sense,
Thanks Jack you saved the day again.
Dee Stark,
The Targaryen’s have ‘blood tainted with madness’ according to the books.
Jack Bauer 24,
thanks They had only one boat? what happened to that budget they had? Well, it all worked out. Beautifully filmed
I don’t know where this all the tragaryens are prone to madness comes from..
For every targaryen we had only one who named mad king .,there was an idiot who drank wildfire .,there was an unworthy one ( is he any different from Robert baratheon) .,there was the cruel one ( was he any different from a tywin or any other ruthless ones)
But other than these there were hundreds of targs we know who simply had a normal life or wanted a normal life or was like any other family and also had great ones.
I know we have this quote about targaryens that ” when a targaryen was born a coin is flipped which will either lands on greatness or madness” ..
But let’s take the one who said the above quote Jaehaerys son of aegon ( egg) grandfather of dany…he was neither a great one nor a mad one..
And there was hundreds more like him I can name ..
Stop it.
Jack Bauer 24,
Well emilia did say she was thinking about the theme when she was reading the script and doing the scene in the game revealed video ..and by the way did I mention how lovely she is in that video .
Geralt of Rivia,
I have not seen one but I suspected there will be one after I saw the similarities between Emilia and actress played lyanna..
If cutting away from baby to kit is not enough Just show them the game revealed video where I believe they mention clearly it was jon ..
Dany the baby? No. Then she would be half Stark and Viserys and Rhaegar aren’t her brothers.
All is going according to Ser Pounce’s plans. Soon, he will be crowned king and rule all of Westeros with an iron paw alongside Queen Whiskers and his Hand, Boots.
In the mean time, a figure appears atop the Wall as the armies of undead gather below with their White Walker masters. Lady Lyanna Mormont’s eyes fall upon the Night’s King and his forces, and in that moment they realizes all is lost and flee to the cold wasteland of the far north.
Haha!
I’ll donate to the Ghost Go Fund Me! Wish Ghost had at least been in the room when Jon was proclaimed the White Wolf and King of the North. But I’ll just pretend in my mind he was there. I’ll forgive his absence for that one scene of Dany finally flying with her 3 dragons!
Nadia,
I’m not on it either. I don’t think they will be enemies. But I think the Jon and Dany marry and have cute little kids who hatch little dragons line of thinking … may be a little too sweet to be bittersweet
I loved Lyanna! She was beautiful even on her deathbed and definitely resembled Jon and Arya. I can’t wait to see a Tourney at Harrenhal flashback next year. Can you imagine how gorgeous she will look with hair and makeup done? And the actor cast as Rhaegar is going to need to meet some very high expectations. Arthur Dayne 2.0 please!
dragonbringer,
There were non-kings who went mad. No one’s just talking about KINGS, but Targs in general. In the beginning the Targs had the power to put out the made ones and not make them kings. They were fortunate that some were not heirs at all.
Maybe only a couple were mad, but there were some that were seen as uncommonly cruel and certainly can be argued they were not all there (Maegor, Aegon II, Aegon IV I think, some others that I can’t remember?)
Nadia,
Except of course people use only the Kings as evidence and leave out all the normal targs
Why people never talk about normal targs who were great not mad or those who were just normal and not both great or mad ..
I have just included those who were not kings just above the quote you replied to me ..
I have added aegon 4 who was called unworthy again is that any different than what Robert did..
I have included maegor the cruel – was tywin any different
I have included Aeron brightflame who drank the wildfire stupidly thinking he will transform into a dragon..
Aparat from these three ..name anyone who has shown any madness or ruthlessness ..
Damon for all his ruthlessness was a calculated one and went out in glory ..
Aemond was just terrible ..
Anyone who went through what they went through like viserys will end up mad..
Aemon dragonknight.
Aemon the maestee .
Aegon the third
Aegon the second
Aegon the fifth who was called as unlikely
Viserys 1
Jaehaerys 1
Jaehaerys 2
Baelor the blessed
Sons of Aegon the fifth.
Daeron
Aenys
Viserys the second
Daeron the second
Aerys the first
Maeker
Sons of maeker like prince daeron .,Aemon the maester of NW and Aegon( egg)
All of them were notable members of targs and most of the above mentioned were kings and all of them were never mad nor great ..
The same goes for ordinary family members ..I can list them all but I don’t think this page will be enough
JCDavis,
Or maybe we can just say that Lady Lyanna Mormont can become like Lady Olenna someday. Fierce, no-nonsense ladies. 🙂
When I re-watched episode 10, I just imagined Ghost lounging there in front of Jon/Sansa’s table during the KitN scene. Man, it would have been glorious. Some here commented in weeks past that it’s okay to not show direwolves anymore because they’re not “crucial in the end-game anyway”. But to me, Ghost is not just a dire wolf. He’s a beloved character. He’s Jon’s symbol of his being a Stark and a wolf.
Agreed!
The tower baby? Lol no, Lyanna clearly tells Ned ” you have to protect him” , implying the baby is a boy.
The baby had the same brown eyes as Jon, Dany has blue/green ones.
HBO and Isaac Hampstead Wright have confirmed that it is Jon .
There is 0% chance that that baby was Dany.
Nadia,
And we don’t even talk about women and ladies of targaryens .
Apart form rhaenyra who was driven to madness like the way viserys was ..
One can say visenya was ruthless but definetely not mad and she is one of arya’s favorite .
Is there any women who comes to madness or ruthlessness..
Are they not come from the same incest gene .
Having such a history and diversity where we have greatness , madness, ruthless,stupidity ,brave and valor, honest ,bookish ,loveable,family person ,bookish, just lazy ,dutiful,honorable,down to earth ,sick ,badass, and many more aspects is what makes them most intersting family in the story..
And its a lot more believeable people will be different from another than thinking for 8000 years everyone who comes in a family is good and honorable and no mad one or one who didn’t fight against his family.
In short targs and their madness and incest is over exaggerated by the fans and which we do not see in the story at all.
Lyanna_Targaryen,
The fact that Dani wanted to burn all of her enemies its not a glimpse of madness but a barbarian ruthless that all the great targ like aegon had and all the great conquerors , Alexander the great burned two cities to the ground , the romans much more . Dany is not aerys , the dragon speech reminded a lot of attila , when he died all of his warriors fought to the death to follow him in the afterlife, thats why she named them all bloodriders , theyr supposed to follow her even in the afterlife like huns warriors and samurai with their daimyo.
Nadia,
Even the boltons and the freys pledged to Robb , that doesnt mean anything , the knights of the vale will follow sansa i guess.
Lord of Coffee,
Some people sure do have some preconceived notions about the author George Martin with whom they’ve never met.
You do not deserve these books. Go read J.K. Rowling or or Megan McDonald or something like that
ghost of winterfell,
Wait, so people are still questioning who the baby is even after that transition scene? It was a dead give away lol.
Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,
He’s a troll. Don’t give him attention.
Aegon IV. the Unworthy was much worse than Robert. Same goes for Maegor vs. Tywin.
Aegon IV. was a gluttonous and bad-tempered king who cared only for his lusts. He gave away large amounts of gold, so he could sleep with daughters of several lords. Once he caught one of his mistresses in a bed with a knight of a Kingsguard. He executed his mistress (who was a daughter of a lord) and tortured the knight to death. His small council and men at the court were mostly those who were able to amuse him and had no idea how to rule the kingdom. He threatened several times that he would disown his son Daeron and name Daemon Blackfyre as his heir instead. And there was attempt to conquer Dorne, in which he lost his entire army before even getting there, losing most of them when his siege machines filled with wildfire exploded in the forest. The final act on his death bed was legitimization of his bastards, which led to rebellion that last several decades.
Maegor I. the Cruel was a stern and ruthless leader. Even before he became a king, Maegor caused an outrage when whe took a second wife, because the first one did not bear him any children. When he came to the throne (while not being a rightful heir), Grand Maester Gawen opposed him and Maegor personally executed him with his sword. He only got worse when he got injured in Trial by Seven and spent nearly a month in a coma. A sorceress from Pentos managed to wake him up and his first act was unleashing Balerion on the city sept (basically the same act Cersei did with wildfire). Then he spent many years hunting Faith Militant and he returned with thousands of skulls, which most likely did not belong to them. When his second wife Alys gave birth to a deformed baby, he accused her of sleeping with another man and executed not only her, but also her entire family, wiping out the name Harroway. It is suspected that he executed many other wives and only two survived him. When the sorceress from Pentos admitted that she poisoned his wives, resulting in deformed stillborns, he personaly carved out her heart and fed it to the dogs. When Red Keep was built, he ordered all builders and stonemasons to be executed, so nobody but him would know its secrets. At the end, the entire kingdom was planning a rebellion against him and Maegor was well aware of that. The rebellion never happened as Maegor commited suicide (or was assassinated) the night before the march.
Lord Parramandas,
I know the history but are we looking for a word for word exact matching to how much aegon and Robert fucked things up ..or tywin and maegor were cruel and ruthless.
Let’s see
Robert bad tempered cared about only lust
He gave away lots of gold and spent long of money as well.
He bedded a women on the same bed stannis is going to have his bedding ceremony..poor stannis.
Just what do you think would have happened if he found out about cersei and Jamie in the same bed..
He had no idea to rule either ..
He successfully made the realm bankrupt from getting the throne and treasury full from the targs..
His death ended up in starting a rebellion as well..
Tywin who made the mistress of his father walk naked
Tywin who had his son’s wife raped by his soldiers ans his son and made her walk naked amidst the city as well..
Tywin who had Elia brutally killed because he couldn’t take the slight of rejecting his daughter.
Tywin who did rains of castamere and red wedding..
Tywin who frequented brothels and fucking his son’s lover
Just give him balerion the dread and see how he would have made himself..
The differennce is tywin was a lord and maegor was king with a dragon …ofcourse one is going to be more cruel and ruthless than another ..
Its OK let’s say they are worse and Robert and tywin not same..
We have what maegor , aegon 4 , and add aeron brightflame and aemond one eye to the list if you want ..
That makes four out of the entire targaryen history that we know of ..
For each and every one of the above mentioned there is tens of targaryens who were good ,stable and normal and great ..
Just were did this whole family is full of insane comes .
dragonbringer,
I know there are similarities between Aegon IV. and Robert but I think Robert’s desires for lust were nowhere close to Aegon’s. As opposed to Aegon, he actually had some decent men in the council and he was well aware that he was not a good king. He spent a lot of gold but it is heavily implied that LF was involved in that as well. And like I said, Robert was actually good in battle and managed to end Greyjoy rebellion. We can’t say the same thing for Aegon. And the rebellion that happened after Robert’s death was because someone discovered that his children are actually Lannister bastards, the fact that even Robert was not aware of. Blackfyre rebellion was basically Aegon’s own fault.
And as opposed to Maegor, Tywin was actually an effective ruler and he nearly won the War of Five Kings. I do not support what he did to Reynes and Tarbecks but there is a difference between dealing with a rebellion and killing entire family just because he (wrongly) suspected that his wife was having an affair.
I agree that there were several Targaryens that were not mad, but that doesn’t mean they were good rulers:
Aegon I. was a good king but he continued with his pointless attacks on Dorne, losing his sister and one of his dragons in the process.
Aenys I. was weak and in his short reign, 3 major rebellions happened. He managed to get into the conflict with Faith Militant and nearly got himself killed in the process.
Viserys I’s regin was peaceful, but just like Robert, he unintentionally planted the seeds of rebellion and was not aware of it.
Aegon II’s actions led to a greatest civil war Westeros have ever seen which ended with extinction of dragons and near-extinction of House Targaryen as well. He was also very cruel and rutheless – sending Aemond to kill Lucerys Velaryon, feeding Rhaenyra to his dragon and forcing her son to watch…
Aegon III’s reign was mostly peaceful, but there was war of regents at the court and the king himself did almost nothing during his rule. That’s why he was called The Broken King.
Daeron I. tried to conquer Dorne, but lost thousands of men in the process, caused Aemon the Dragonknight to be captured and got himself killed in RW-type of event.
Baelor I. was loved by the smallfolk although he could have suffered from some form of madness, although a very different one. Locking his sisters into Maidenvault, emptying his treasury, starving himself to death…
Well, I would not say that Targaryens were particulary good kings. There were some decent ones though (Jaehaerys I., Viserys II., Daeron II., Aegon V. )
Hahaha!!! Love that! Thanks for sharing ?
Lord Parramandas,
But we are talking about how much sane and normal they were ..not about they are great kings..
I never went into how good king they are because its going to be hard for anyone to be perfect..
Like you said viserys’s reign was peaceful but lead to dance and that’s why I blame him the most for dance for dance.same goes Robert if he was any good king he could have prevented all those war of five Kings ..
If you are going to be a ruler then there will be some negative points to you …
But what am talking about his their characters no one showed any madness or ruthlessness..
Most you mentioned in that list was victims and week and just normal..
Being great does not meant as king but great as in history aegon and his sisters eveeyone talks about them ..aemon dragonknight ( Jon’s favorite ) ..young dragon ( like young wolf)..jaehaerys conciliator ( giving the realm peace for almost 80 years).aegon 5 and aemon..
And then we have just targs with no special abilities and just had a normal life ..jaehaerys the second is great example for that and shows how is quote is simply wrong..
Like I said too much over exaggeration of this madness and incest of targs in fandom but not in books..
It goes to show how much people don’t know when they think that only thing targs known for is madness and burning down ..
Ask Siri who Jon’s father is the answers are so funny.And makingofgameofthrones released an info graphic that clearly states that Rhaegar is Jon’s father so I don’t think they intend for it to be a mystery also because there is only logical possibility when you think about it.Obviously things will need to be spelled out next season so casual viewers can fully get it
Thank you
dragonbringer,
Well, at least we agree that Viserys I.’s reign pretty much resembles Robert’s.
Actually, I found it strange that GRRM included the phrase about madness in the first place, only to reveal that most of the kings were not actually mad. Did he abandon that idea?
And with such a long history of inbreeding, I wonder why no one suffered any deformity (unless Valyrians are immune to it), especially compared to Peacock family from the X-Files or THESE GUYS from one of our Slovenian movies.
Yet another instance of Sophie interpreting things in her own way as opposed to what actually happens on-screen. No, LF does not obviously want her on the Iron Throne and him by her side . What he wants is himself on the Iron Throne and her by his side. A big difference here.
Slightly OT: Anybody notice Jon channeling Ned Stark once again when he tells Sansa “we can’t fight a war amongst ourselves” Ned said the exact thing to Arya in S1, regarding Sansa. I saw somebody point it out on Reddit.
OK, so after this there’s still people doubting that the major plot point for Sansa next season would be if she sides with Jon or Littlefinger? ;-D
Edit: And the look she gives to LF is clrearly a look of “OK, you’re right…I should be Queen”
Lord Parramandas,
I think that quote was there to tell about deanerys and she having a dilemma ( what side of coin she is ).. Nothing more.
Well the targs did have some child miscarriages where the babies were twisted things like rhaego has been ..
But the points like this is why I actually don’t bother about genetics in fantasy ..
I normally dont take this things about incest in the fiction as seriously because its all depends on what the writer wants. He wanted aerys to be mad so disposing him will further the story ..he wanted aegon to be great and great he was.
He wanted the valyrians other wolrdly and beautiful and so they were ..
So I feel the discussions based on genetics to our world and fiction as a waste of time..
Hahaha! Kit is so charming. He even showed his pad. Such a nice guy. And I love that he’s so unlike the character Jon.
So they’re either gonna fight or f*ck. Really? Those are the only options? LOL
Thank you so much for posting this. Finding “gems” like this in here is one of the reasons I enjoy visiting this site.
Sam,
Here’s something I read about the upcoming movie he’s starring in. I’ve never heard of this director, maybe did mostly Indie films so far? Lots of big names here and will be interesting seeing Kit act beside them.
Dolan says : “It’s all very exciting. We are in prep and start shooting in Montreal on July 9th for 40 days. Then, Prague and London in September and October, and New York for a split-second before Thanksgiving. So it’s mostly shot outside of the US. But it’s an American story, to be precise. So far, it’s been great, but we have a huge cast, not only in terms of notoriety, but in terms of the number of actors flying in and out of our set. It’s just very challenging to orchestrate all this, and still not make accommodating choices that compromise the film artistically or narratively speaking. But we’re doing good, I think. It’s been great with all the cast, and I’m excited about working with each of them.”
ygritte,
Wow, thanks for this info. I wonder if it’s a drama, comedy, or action… I’d like to see him in a comedy film. He seems like someone who can be funny. 🙂 Besides, we’ve seen enough brooding from him. 🙂
Pau,
They will just say that the actress is trying to throw us off and so we can’t trust what she says. *sigh* but you and I both know differently 🙂
ygritte,
GOT is supposed to start filming in September, according to Sophie Turner. So he will have to juggle the two for a couple of months. That movie has a pretty big star cast, if I am not mistaken, including Jessica Chastain, Susan Sarandon, Natalie Portman etc.
It’s called an opinion. She can have one, you know. She can even have one that’s different and completely bonkers from ours.
If her viewpoint is that disagreeable to you, then stop reading these interviews altogether. They’re not a requirement.
Sam,
Drama. The buzzwords “identity and diversity” makes me think it could be a coming out kind of subject matter.
“In “The Death and Life of John F. Donovan,” 10 years after the death of an American TV star he corresponded with as a teenager, a young actor recollects the pen-pal relationship he used to have with his past idol. The film explores the hardships of fame and hurdles of the movie business through the lives of both, now and then, and reflects on the issue of identity and diversity in Hollywood over the past decade.”
ghost of winterfell,
Yeah at first I wondered at that long filming schedule which seems to conflict with GOT but then I see where the director talks about the actors flying back and forth. They aren’t filming until Sept this year? Wow, usually it’s early July no? Wonder why so late.
ygritte,
Wow. It sounds serious. I’ll look forward to this. Thank you!
Sam,
He was in one HBO comedy called Seven days in hell. I started to watch it but about 10 minutes in could tell it’s not my type of humor so I didn’t finish, but those who watched through said it was funny and he’s pretty good in it.
ygritte,
One of the actors (I don’t remember who) had hinted earlier that filming might be delayed this year as they want to shoot in colder climates. Yesterday one of the posters here mentioned an interview by Sophie Turner, where she said that she starts filming in September, so it looks like at least the filming for the northern story starts only in September.
dragonbringer,
She also resemble Arya and Jon a little bit. Isaac, actress herself, HBO makingfgameofthros confirmed even his father. I know you’re not gonna like it but everything doesn’t need to be about daeny. But Iwould prefer Jon to be Ned’s son but hey we can’t have it all.
We were talking about Jon being or not being a King. Oe of the reason he might not sit on the irone throne is that Daeny’s husbands died. Drogo, Hizdar or if it will be in the books Euron and if Jon is the third one. He might very well die.
ghost of winterfell,
Ah well that makes sense, after all, winter is here! But does that mean we won’t get the new season in April like usual? Seems like it would need to be pushed back a couple months. Oh no, that would suck.
Dee, I’m sullied so I’ve read the books…I guess at this point I’m unsullied…lol. Anyway, the histories and lore and awesome and fill in so many blanks with little details, a lot the show can’t possibly give you. I also just read Dunk & Egg…awesome read. George can get a little dragged out in his books, but they are worth the read.
dragonbringer,
But then you might onto something when you mentioned Queen Alysanne and Jaehaerys. If this is Jon’s birth name. Like Jon and Daeny sitting on Iron Throne. Maegor The Cruel was king before Jaehaerys who had to rebuild Kingdoms and who is sitting on Iron Throne right now=Cersei who might be just as cruel. If I remember Maegor got angry at Faith Millitant blew up Sept with Balerion fire. Cersei blew them up with wildfire. Also Jaehaerys took on his longtime friend Septon Barth as Maester. Barth and Sam are not that different.
Iam sorry but what are you talking about ..
What part of my comment did you not understand
This is really getting ridiculous and tiresome everytime i get accused of i want everything about dany when i clearly never have shown that intent at all ..its irritating as well.did I ever say that child was dany or did you ever see me argue that R+L = D or jon is not rhaegar’s son..
You atleast wondered they can be twins i didn’t even think about or speculated about it ..
Geralt of Rivia,
Barth and davos are more similar to me …they both come from fleebottom rised as hand of Tue kings..
Even without the name thing him being jaehaerys …I always believed that jon and dany can make the same power couple jon the conciliator and good queen daenerys ..
Jaehaerys ruled but alyssane had power too and she participated in taking decisions..
And yes that cersei similarities is interesting and may very well be intentional ..
But most of all we need that long reign of 60 to 80 years so the realm can get back to its normal state after war of dawn..
And I believe that these two are better for the job..
Or you know the third time is the charm.
dragonbringer,
Maybe i misunderstood you. I get the impression and yesterday for few hours I argued with someone about them and the whole theories. Apologies.
Iam kind of split on this. Both or one of them could really die as it would make sense thanks to HOTU or they could rule and it would sense too. I mean as you said they build them up to learn to rule but also sacrifice is something they could do.
Westeros will be in shitty state after the war of dawn. Jon doesn’t seem to me like the guy who would change his name but if Lyanna truly whispered his birth name to Ned, then it must play some part. If Jon and Daeny are to take iron throne he might need to change his name for practical or political purposes.
Geralt of Rivia,
Forgive me if I sounded rude…it was not you ..even yesterday someone called me that while I clearly did not spoke that way or wanting everything to be dany.. iam just sick of being called like that ..
Iam split on this too. I hope they both survive but I also believe they have the high peecentage of ending up dead..
Remember the old discussions we had ..I believe dany will die and jon end up as king and you believe that jon will die and dany ends up ruling ..
I still think this both could be possible..
But I wouldnt be surprised if they survive as well .
Whatever it is I hope GRRm has planned a satisfactory ending for both of the characters and also for other chatacters too..
He may use the name official purposes like getting crowned but he will forever be jon I believe ..and dany tyrion arya sansa bran tormund davos all will call him as jon .kind of like how aegon stayed egg and eddard stayed as Ned ..
Concerning Snape-finger and Hubris in general.
(Shame. Shame. I’ve been hooked on ASOIAF since the late 90s and never thought of visiting your brotherhood in the past years. Greetings! I’m catching up on Game of Owns, which will bring me through the long night. Thanks to Hannah et al.! Keep up the good work!)
So, today I was listening to the End of Autumn and it got me thinking. First there’s the Littlefinger issue which, now that I’ve digested it a bit, seems very curious to me. Can anyone explain to me how Littlefinger isn’t a much more dominant fan(girl) favourite? Look at his background: bullied kid, felt left behind, generally … let’s call it… ambiguous personality, the only thing to humanise him is this girl he loves – who rejects him for the quaterback guy which leads to him spiralling out of control and some bad decisions…. I mean, come on! He’s even wearing the flowing black capes and the cast Prettyface Gillen (who I will forever adore since his turn on the Wire!). How come the girl’s aren’t jumping on this by the millions? I for one am deeply biased and of course root for Snapefinger’s second chance (Sansa) until the bitter end.
My second point, and this worries me a lot, is Arya and her humble pie. I think we can all agree that the general narrative structure is firmly in a Greek tragedy / Shakespearean tradition. Every time a character feels too secure in his/her position, it’s the end for this storyline. Ned, to a degree – I think his special brand of hubris lies in his fanatical clinging to the old mores -, Catelyn, Rob, Joffrey, Tywin, now Cersei is obviously next… and A Girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell and bakes her enemies into pies. Oh boy. I know most of Titus Andronicus by heart and this pie baking thing is *not* a good sign. There is some reckoning to be had. I don’t want to spell it out, because I don’t want to jinx one of my favourite characters… but Arya is on a very, very dangerous path considering the general narrative mechanics of ASOIAF.
Thoughts?
As you would say, “They know nothing” ;-P
Welcome to the forums!!
Regarding your first point I always liked Littlefinger reading the books…as you say he is more gray than black. I’m not a fan of the show version, at all. They butchered the character. He is just an idiot, a cartoonish, over the top villian
Regarding Arya the Frey Pie is the only thing I didn’t like of the finale. Only a socipath would do that tbh. Plus there’s no way she would get away with it. But well, I understand why they did it
Not sure if it was intentional but Lyanna Mormont is named after Lyanna Stark. She was the one to defend and proclaim Jon King in the North and stood by him. It was like spirit of his mother is watching over him and helping him. Kinda symbolic a little bit.
Oh for heaven’s sake would people stop equating wanting justice and vengeance with madness? What Dany proposed was very wise.
So what if she was going to kill some innocent folks in smashing Yunkai etc. to dust – what is the alternative? All she’s done at present, after taking Tyrion’s advice is kill some slaver rulers, two of them in fact, and burn one ship. She has left the area and her dragons have gone with her. Her UnSullied and Dothraki are also gone.
You are telling me that the remaining slaver ruling class is going to come to heel because their ships are gone? They are going to agree not to have and sell slaves? Please.
She was right to think that destroying Yunkai etc. was the only way to go. It is. The threat of dragons and Dany ever coming back is a weak one. She and all her dragons and all her soldiers may be obliterated and never return. As if the slavers are going to be so frightened of that that they give up their way of life….
The Second Sons remain – what, 1000 men? Big deal.
There is too much nonsense surrounding Dany having a whiff of her father’s madness. It is just a silly story device and misused in the show.
Pretty much draft yes, there are already casting calls for minor small parts for Season 7.
J
No money for Ghost – they have said so. Had to put CG budget to dragons.
Lord Parramandas,
Aegon V.
And he engaged in whatever madness happened at Summerhall.
Markus Stark,
This is exactly what I’ve been thinking. I know we are getting to the final sprint to the finish line, but there is SO much story left that the only way I can see only 13 hours being left is if they completely hand wave and “Yada Yada” through a ton of it.
I’ve never minded the travelling and condensing the story, but it would be unfortunate to yada yada through all of that just because we don’t want to bore average viewers with the dreaded dialogue and exposition. If they do that, then I’d just rather them have left out some of the plots they brought back or tied them up this season.
Plus what many don’t think about is that GRRM doesn’t like the aspect of LOTR where we don’t really see the fallout of the war and what happens after the “ending”. He will want to explore what happens after the great war, as far as the political and social fallout and changes. So if D&D wanted to go a similar route, they would need some time after the end of the war to really wrap up the story and bring closure to it.
Tootie,
So what if she was going to kill some innocent folks in smashing Yunkai etc. to dust – what is the alternative?
I’m not sure it was some … I was interpreting it as she would burn Yunkai and Astapor to the ground, masters, slaves, and everyone else included.
Which is certainly a time-honored method for dealing with rebellions. In the words of Abbot Arnaud Amalric:
Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius (Kill them all. For the Lord knoweth them that are His.)
I think the US Republican Presidential candidate Ted Cruz had the same idea:
I don’t know if sand can glow in the dark, but we’re going to find out!
I guess your prespective depends on who is doing the exterminating and for what reason. History is replete with examples of groups exterminating other groups for reasons they believe right. Slippery slope it appears to me.
Geralt of Rivia,
Sansa say that to lyanna mormont when they meet in beer island.
Tootie,
Completely agree..
Darkrobin,
Is he ..
Its heavily implied that masters are behind it .
In fact am looking forward to how much these masters were responsible for miscarriages and early deaths and sickness of week targs and so called madness as well
Darkrobin,
She explicitly states that she will kill all the soldiers and ships and brimg down the masters and their city..
She never talks about killing people ..
Of course innocents will die but where is the war they didn’t die..
Like I said in that episode recap ..tyrion demolished entire stannis fleet with wildfire because thats only option he got..
Dany came up with only option she got dragons..
And that scene was used so much for foreshadowing what’s to come with cersei and Kl than dany herself…because dany from the books will never go for burning the whole ships …she would have been thinking how to get them..
And that’s why I hate that dialogue in the scene
There really isnt
All the pieces are in place, just got to get rid of Cersei, get Jon and Dany together, and fight the White Walker War.
my predictions:
Dany lands in Westeros, either in Dorne or even better, Dragonstone. Her army crushes the Lannister forces. Dany Advances on King’s Landing. Cersei goes batshit, and orders the wildfire on KL. Jaimie kills her just like he killed the Mad King. tyrion finds Jaimie holding her corpse. Dany claims the iron Throne.
While this is happening, the Wall falls and the Army of the Dead invade the North. The Northern houses take heavy casualties.
Jon goes to Dany and they hook up. The King in the North and the Queen in the South. the Song of ice and Fire. the WW’s are defeated after huge losses on the human side. Either Dany or Jon dies. but they wont both live to the end.
dragonbringer,
Yes, I know there are theories that the Maesters were involved based upon Marwyn’s comments (which depending on how you view him, may or may not be viewed as being more objective than the other versions of the story). However, Aegon V appeared to have had the interest in magic and hatching the eggs.
And there was his leniency in his children’s marriages.
I’m not saying he was a bad king. Just that the story was more complex.
dragonbringer,
I believe the quote was:
Kill every one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt,
My comment was not directed toward the soldiers. I cannot recall whether the soldiers of Volantis and the other cities were slaves verses free men. Regardless, returning cities to the dirt for someone with dragons implies more than a few innocents being hurt. Once the fire starts, it would be hard to control who it burns. If 2/3’s or 3/4’s of the city population was slaves, then she is killing more than a few.
Perhaps we are asked to compare our feeling in regard to Cersei returning King’s Landing to the dirt and Dany returning Astapor and Yunkai to the dirt.
The Knights of the Vale arent loyal to Jon. Those were all Northern lords at that meeting. Little Finger of course was silent in the back. I think we can assume the details of Jons exploits are probably known, but they didnt have enough time to show any of that in the episode. The Knights of the Vale will probably go back to the Vale, unless Little Finger has some stay behind. He obviously still has plans for Sansa, so that will be interesting to watch going forward.
Mmmmm Beer Island.
wrong answer, Lord Royce was the first one speaking, the one complaining about having to dine with wildlings
Dee Stark,
He actually was a good King starting off but got a little more paranoid the longer into his reign. Then Duskendale chose not pay their taxes. He went to go deal with it himself and they kidnapped him and threw him in the dungeons. He was saved by Barristan Selmy but heard Tywin wanted to destroy Duskendale and risk the Kings life to ensure that Duskendale never did this again. Tywin preferred Rhaegar at that point. That was basically the straw that broke the camels back. Being captured, jailed and believed his hand would risk him dying to get back at Duskendale.
Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,
Bronze Royce, the lead Vale nobleman, was at the meeting. He made the initial comment about the wildlings.
I don’t understand what’s this stuff with abbreviated seasons and reduced number of episodes?! Why not keep it the current number of 10 until the end of the show?!
They tried that with “Boardwalk Empire” and while the season was still good and above most other shows on TV, it also felt rushed with not enough room to breathe and properly tell it’s concluding story in a more expansive and complete way.
While no one would like to see GoT stick around “past due”…also let’s not be too eager to end it…so much so that we end up drowning at water’s edge!