Running times for ALL Game of Thrones Season 8 episodes officially revealed!

11. Season 8 Trailer Cersei Lannister Qyburn Gregor Mountain Clegane King's Landing

The season eight premiere is but a month away and that means we’ll be getting more and more details about the final six Game of Thrones episodes. We’re not yet at the exciting phase of speculating about what the episode titles could possibly mean, but HBO has just released the running times for the entire season!

HBO recently updated their schedule to include the length for the episodes, and it is about what we expected, though it begins a bit on the shorter side:

801 running time

Back in January, we got a rough idea of the running time for each episode from the French TV network that airs the show: the first two episodes would be about an hour long, while the final four would be around 80 minutes. Though the schedule largely corroborates this, there are two exceptions, as the first episode, at 54 minutes, falls a bit short of being “an hour long”, and episode three is 60 minutes long, not 80:

  • Episode 1: 54 minutes
  • Episode 2: 58 minutes
  • Episode 3: 60 minutes
  • Episode 4: 78 minutes
  • Episode 5: 80 minutes
  • Episode 6: 80 minutes
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    For a complete rundown of Game of Thrones running times, see the chart below:

    GOT Running Time Statistics Complete

    Though the early season will be shorter than expected, the entire second half will be just as long as originally reported, as you can see: the final three episodes are at 1 hour 18 minutes, 1 hour 20 minutes, and another 1 hour 20 minutes respectively. In other words, we will have three consecutive episodes to end this story that are as long as the longest Game of Thrones episode ever aired, The Dragon and the Wolf, the season seven finale.

    150 responses

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      1. ASNAWP!

        I guess since Hibberd is reporting it then it’s pretty official. I was hoping they weren’t quite set. Sure, a premiere of 54 minutes isn’t all that much shorter than believing it would be 60 minutes, but it’s still less. We always want MORE! 😀

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      2. With only six episodes left and lots of threads to tie, imho more would definitely be more (not bloat). A rushed ending is the last thing we need after all this time. Not another S7, please!

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      3. Mustangride1,

        I’ve seen that. It’s not really that far off from the French OCSTV thing in January that said they were 60, 60, 80, 80, 80, 80. If these new numbers are correct than it’s “just” 30 minutes shorter, with the third episode being the major difference maker.

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      4. Clob: Game of Thrones Season 8

        It’s odd that 5 of the 6 episodes are so close/exactly what originally reported, but the big episode 3 is a full 20 minutes shorter? That’s a massive edit.

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      5. If Season 8 were 12 episodes people would still call if rushed lol. That’s been the mantra about the show since at least Season 5.

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      6. So basically we’re getting three eps and three standard good old movies, back in the days when 2+ hrs was consider a two-part feature with intermission and everything.

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      7. Well I’m canceling my HBO subscription, I didn’t wait 2 years for 50+ minute episodes. D&D could easily have crafted 75 minute episodes. If I’d been an HBO exec and when the original scripts were drafted and found out how short they’d be, I would have sent D&D back to the computer to rewrite longer episodes. I’ll just avoid spoilers, and buy the uber ultimate extended edition series Blu at Christmas.

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      8. Tyjon:
        Well I’m canceling my HBO subscription, I didn’t wait 2 years for 50+ minute episodes. D&D could easily have crafted 75 minute episodes. If I’d been an HBO exec and when the original scripts were drafted and found out how short they’d be, I would have sent D&D back to the computer to rewrite longer episodes. I’ll just avoid spoilers, and buy the uber ultimate extended edition series Blu at Christmas.

        Serious or sarcasm?

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      9. Tyjon:
        Well I’m canceling my HBO subscription, I didn’t wait 2 years for 50+ minute episodes. D&D could easily have crafted 75 minute episodes. If I’d been an HBO exec and when the original scripts were drafted and found out how short they’d be, I would have sent D&D back to the computer to rewrite longer episodes. I’ll just avoid spoilers, and buy the uber ultimate extended edition series Blu at Christmas.

        “Easily”. Ha. Hilarious.

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      10. Tyjon,

        The best episode of season 7 was also the shortest one.
        I’d rather have short episodes but good episodes, instead of long and bad episodes.

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      11. People need to understand that the MPAA considers anything over 80 minutes to be “feature length.” So, technically, we’re almost getting 3 of those with the second half of the season.

        People also need to remember that “The Dragon And The Wolf” was a PACKED episode at 80 minutes long. Having 3 of those back to back is going to be huge. And anyone that is wired that Episode 3 is 60 minutes needs to remember that “Battle of the Bastards” was also 60 minutes long, with a lot of dialogue scenes building up to the actual battle including the subplot in Mereen in the first half of the episode. Having everything in a single location will add more time.

        So in other words…not disappointed and certainly not worried. Character arcs are ending, not beginning. You don’t need 90-120 minutes to tell the endings of those characters in single episodes. It’s about what we should’ve expected

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      12. With only 2 locations left this could mean 80 minutes in WF in the first two episodes.

        We saw what they did with 40 minutes in KL in S7E7. This is more than enough.

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      13. Luka Nieto,

        It’s more likely that the French guy was wrong. Vladimir Furdic the Night King has always said that the battle will take about a hour and it doesn’t seem right to mix the greatest battle of all times with something different, especially considering that all the further course of the season will fully depend on its outcome.

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      14. Chilli:
        Tyjon,

        The best episode of season 7 was also the shortest one.
        I’d rather have short episodes but good episodes, instead of long and bad episodes.

        “The Spoils of War” at 50 minutes is the shortest of the series. The length didn’t prevent it from being a good episode but it is also very evident that it’s short. This premiere of 54 minutes is right about the average length for the series. It’s only four more minutes but it should still feel “normal.” We fans just always want as much as we can get.

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      15. 410 minutes in total
        the equivalent of 8 normal length (50 minute) episodes then?
        Surprised that Episode 3 (if it is the Battle of Winterfell) is not longer.

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      16. Inga: it doesn’t seem right to mix the greatest battle of all times with something different

        Unless it’s starting the episode with something that is also incredibly great, such as the Battle for Meereen kicking off the episode that finishes with BotB.

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      17. Clob: Unless it’s starting the episode with something that is also incredibly great, such as the Battle for Meereen kicking off the episode that finishes with BotB.

        I might be in the minority, but I enjoyed the Battle for Mereen more then the BotB.

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      18. Episodes 1-3 of season 7 are longer than episodes 1-3 of season 8. However, the average runtime for season 7 is 63.1 and for season 8 it is 68.3, and of course this is with one less episode. Although half of season 8 is shorter than season 7, in the long-run, season 8 averages out to a longer season.

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      19. Wolfish:
        With only six episodes left and lots of threads to tie, imho more would definitely be more (not bloat). A rushed ending is the last thing we need after all this time. Not another S7, please!

        If you think this doesn’t have a rushed ending, you haven’t been paying attention! 🙂

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      20. Wolfish,

        Do they have lots of threads to tie? The main thing is that the Night King has to be defeated. And also Cersei. And a few moments with Theon rescuing Yara. Don’t know what other threads that need to be tied? All the reunions will be in episode one, for the rest is enough time in the other 5 episodes.
        And there will only be one major location where all the main characters are. Apart from Cersei and Euron, everyone is heading to Winterfell.

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      21. I love long episodes (especially when thinking of LOST finales) but I very much know from GoT that even shorter episodes can be epic. “The Spoils of War” is my no.5 episode overall and it’s only 50 minutes long. “The Dragon and the Wolf “is the longest episode up to date and it’s my no.11 episode overall. The inner feeling tells me that I’ll probably very much love these remaining six episodes. The show hasn’t disappointed me so far regarding episodes as whole.

        Now, time go return back to my GoT rewatch. “Hardhome” on list for today.

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      22. And regarding what I WISH to see in these remaining episodes:

        – meaningful character interactions
        – making the stakes high enough
        – some impactful characters deaths
        – providing emotionally charged ending

        Optional: some amazing visuals as well.

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      23. Clob,
        Jack Bauer 24,
        Chilli,

        Yes, the Battle of Meereen was great and so was Dany’s meeting with Yara. I enjoyed both sequences wholeheartedly, although before I was just getting sick at the thought that the actual battle of the bastards would be ntermixed with something else.

        However, back to what Clob has said. Ep 609 was different: it wrapped two independent conflicts. Now we have only one: the living against the dead with Cersei as a useful idiot basicly taking the Night King’s side. Had she had some internal conflict in KL, it could culminated and be resolved in Ep 803, but I don’t see any potential for that. Cersei hasn’t got much to do, untill the outcome of the battle for Winterfell becomes clear. All her plot potential is basicly limted to dealing with her pregnancy and dealing with Euron. Resolution of her pregnancy problem won’t take much of the screantime: be it a miscarriage or an abortion it should wrap in 2-3 short scenes. As for Euron, based on the cast listing for Ep1, Euron will bring the Golden Company to KL only in Ep 2, and if any conflict is supposed to happen between him and Cersei, it would be more reasonable to push it to Ep 4 or even 5 tying it to overall resolution of the King’s Landing plot. Therefore, Ep3 is something where Cersei will have nothing to do but to sit and wait.
        Sure, there still can be something like Theon vs Euron and Yara’s rescue, but once again IMO that should be either Ep 2, if Yara and her Ironborn are supposed to show at Winterfell, or Ep 4, if she’s more relevant to KL plot. Moreover, putting some additional plot into the battle for Winterfell episode, might spoil its outcome etc. So, it’s an unnecessary complication and therefore the battle should stand alone. At best, we can afford a few “dividers” between the battle sequence, but there’s plenty material for dividers in Winterfell, too: we’ll see people in the field and on the battlements and in the crypts, we have both combatants and non-combatants, etc. And we as viewers might be unable to care about anything else but Winterfell anyway.

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      24. Thank you, Luka. NOW I believe these run-times. Altogether, they = 3 movies. We have some idea of what’s coming–it will be the agony and the ecstasy. I hope the group in NI who create those GoT tapestry scrolls find red thread on sale. They’re going to need a great deal for those six episodes! 🙂

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      25. Jack Bauer 24,

        Chilli,

        Clob,

        Agreed!

        So, taking into account the running times of episodes, the trailer covered only a bit more than 40% of the entire season’s content (episodes 1-3) and we are still completely in the dark about the final 60% (excluding a snippet or two that might be from the final 3 episodes).

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      26. Chilli,

        Give me the 195 minute Kingdom of Heaven cut over the 145 minute theatrical cut any given day. See, I can play that game too, length can equal quality. Oh wait, I forgot, it’s all about less bang for more bucks, less runtime equates to more daily showings and therefore more $$$. You can tell I’m on a vendetta against studios forcing shorter runtimes, it’s a pet peeve of mine, I love long films and loath short ones.

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      27. I already see drones of uninformed fans complaining about this. The only thing that matters is that the cast and crew spent more than an regular season’s worth of filming to create this shortened one. They clearly want to get this right. But of course, narrow minded fans won’t be able to discern that fact until they actually watch the episodes and see the effort.

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      28. Milutin,

        Well, in theory Cersei and Jon & Dany with dragons could be from episodes later than Ep 3. But in general, yes – we are completely in the darkness. Even the great King’s Landing set hasn’t received any EW coverage yeat, although the cast photos were made there. All the spoilers and hints the showrunners allowed to slip are exclusively about Winterfell from Dany’s arrival to the battle.

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      29. I would suspect the 60-minutes for The Battle of Winterfell will feel like 10 minutes to the viewer…

        I can’t help feel a little disappointed by the 1-3 episode times.

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      30. Tyjon,

        That’s because they had to cut it because it would be too long to show in cinema, same with Lord of the Rings, I bought the extended editions.
        But Game of Thrones is not a movie and D&D had all the freedom they wanted to make as many episodes as wanted and as long as they wanted. They worked very hard and very long on those 6 episodes, so I’m sure, long or short, they will all be great and that’s all that matters.

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      31. only episode 3 fell short. My guess is that ep 2 ends with the same ending shot from the the trailer. Therefore all the 3rd ep is about the battle. They mostly have to focus on Winterfell this first half of the season (just short clips from KL, Greyjoys and maybe the Vale and/or volantis)

        Running time looks fine to me. 7 hours to wrap up the remaining plots is more then enough.
        Don’t be greedy, imagine to watch LoTR3 for 7 hours

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      32. Chilli,

        I can 99% guarantee that the long KoH cut would have made a helluva lot more $$ in theaters, basically the reviews were 2.5/4 for TC and 4/4 for DC, and word of mouth and positive reviews would equate to higher box office. Look at Titanic, Avatar, Avengers, all over 160 and rumor has it A4 will be a 3+ hour behemoth. I’m of the opinion that with HBO, Netflix, Amazon and the future Disney+, cinemas will have to go back to epic event films to survive, like Ten Commandments, Lawrence, Ben Hur, Sound of Music, and the like.

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      33. Considering Spoils of War was to me one of the best and most engaging episodes of the entire series, I don’t actually care about some “shorter” episodes. As long as they’re done well, which I anticipate they will be, I’ll have my eyeballs glued to the screen, not the clock.

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      34. Jack Bauer 24: I might be in the minority, but I enjoyed the Battle for Mereen more then the BotB.

        You may not be in the minority. I thought Dany & Dragons vs. Masters’ Armada was better than Jon vs. Ramsay.

        #I’mWithJack

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      35. I never believed the rumor that we were getting six movie length episodes. People were setting themselves up for disappointment by falling for that hype.

        I was hopeful that episode 3, if it is indeed the battle episode, was longer. Especially, with all the recent talk about the “longest consecutive battle ever filmed” stuff. Only an hour, doesn’t mean their beat “The Two Towers” by much.

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      36. Hmm I’m a little disappointed any of them fall under an hour but so long as there’s no negative impact on the quality of the episode I can’t see why it matters…especially when we’re getting three episodes running for 80 minutes in a row.

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      37. Tyjon: I love long films and loath short ones.

        I typically agree with that, although the last movie I saw at the cinema was the 1hr30m Holmes & Watson. It put me to sleep for 10-15 minutes and I still thought it was too long. What an awful movie. 😛

        Inga: Well, in theory …….. Jon & Dany with dragons could be from episodes later than Ep 3.

        I’m kind of wondering about that too. I’m doubtful it is but I’m kind of hoping that it’s one of the last scenes of the series. That would mean both J&D live as well as Drogon & Rhaegal. 🙂

        Inga: Cersei hasn’t got much to do, untill the outcome of the battle for Winterfell becomes clear.

        That’s my thought! Unless the arrival of Euron, Harry & the GC were to start a big plot line within KL rather than them leaving again, there isn’t much we NEED to see out of Cersei.

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      38. davosoldboy:

        Running time looks fine to me. 7 hours to wrap up the remaining plots is more then enough.

        Agreed, it seems weird to me that so many people think that 7 hours isn’t enough time to wrap up this story. (or pretty much any story, really)

        7 hours is a lot. you could watch 3 whole movies in that time. Movies that sometimes cover a lot of ground in their 2 to 3 hour runtimes.

        The upcoming Avengers movie arguably has a lot more plot threads to wrap up and has to do so in less then half of the time we’re looking at here.

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      39. This is about what I expected, if not slightly better. Making every episode extra long would probably defeat the purpose of having a season with fewer episodes.

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      40. I’m definitely slightly disappointed.

        Mainly because I really, really wanted at least one 90 minute episode. Something about reaching that 90 minute mark just makes the experience feel more complete, more immersive.

        True Detective, Westworld, and The Leftovers have all had 90 minute finales at some point in their runs.

        I’m surprised that GoT didn’t get that treatment. The finale of this epic being the longest episode ever at 90 minutes would have been the perfect bookend for me.

        I’m also slightly disappointed that Episode 3 isn’t longer, and that Episode 1 is so short.

        54 minutes includes opening and closing credits (but not the “previously on” or “next on” segments), so that means we’ll have about 51 minutes of actual show, because opening and closing credits combined last around 3 minutes.

        There’s a lot of ground to cover in 51 minutes. About a dozen reunions need to happen (Jon & Arya, Jon & Bran, Jon & Sam, Sandor & Arya, Sandor & Sansa, Gendry & Arya, Jaime & Brienne, Jaime & Tyrion, etc…), Jon needs to find out his parentage, everyone else needs to find out and react to his parentage, and we need several first meetings (Jaime & Dany, Sansa & Dany, etc…).

        Plus whatever is going on in King’s Landing, whatever is happening with Theon/Euron/Yara, Tormund/Beric/Edd and everyone finding out about the fall of the Wall, potential Edmure and Robin appearances, and whatever the White Walkers are up to (who better have a big presence in every episode).

        There’s a LOT.

        My ideal runtimes would have been the following :
        Episode 1 : 60 minutes
        Episode 2 : 60 minutes
        Episode 3 : 70 – 90 minutes
        Episode 4 : 60 minutes
        Episode 5 : 80 minutes
        Episode 6 : 90+ minutes

        Oh well, it’s close enough, I guess.

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      41. Matthew:
        I never believed the rumor that we were getting six movie length episodes.People were setting themselves up for disappointment by falling for that hype.

        I was hopeful that episode 3, if it is indeed the battle episode, was longer.Especially, with all the recent talk about the “longest consecutive battle ever filmed” stuff.Only an hour, doesn’t mean their beat “The Two Towers” by much.

        I recently rewatched The Two Towers and the battle for Helms Deep is nowhere near 40 minutes in length. Nor is it consecutive. I’d say 25-30 minutes for the battle, and then about 15-25 minutes for the other scenes it cuts to (Merry, Pippin and the Ents as well as the scene with Frodo and Sam towards the end).

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      42. Clob,

        Yes, Jon has no sword in those shots and I can’t imagine Jon running without a sword somewhere in the wildness with the Night King and wightified Visserion still arround. The set photos taken at the same location also show Jon and Dan happy and relaxed. And the dragons have been at that spot for some time based on the bones around them. BTW, have you heard that interpretation that they are actually nesting and that their positions are copied from nestig birds? Would be lovely.

        As for Euron and GC, even if they are supposed to start some big plot in King’s Landing, that plot can hardly be conceived before the outcome of the battle of Winterfell is known. If the dead win, I assume Cersei would leave Westeros to the Night King and flee beyond the see, same as Euron and the GC. If the living win, Cersei will continue with her plan to stab them in the back and then many things may happen: Euron may try to take out Cersei right after their marriage (although I don’t think he’ll succeed); the GC may swithch sides – they are paid by the Iron Bank, they will follow its orders and Jon really has to send Davos to talk with Tycho Nestoris; and the defeated Night King may land in King’s Landing instead for going for a nap for next eight thousand years, etc. But its all for the second half of the season: neither Cersei, nor Euron or the GC can make any reasonable move until they know the outcome of the Winterfell battle.

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      43. Nick20,

        I don’t think Jon will find about his parentage in the first episode, or, if he does, I expect it to be the closing scene. The whole drama of Jon’s parentage revelation should fall into Ep 2. So, there’s plenty of time to deal with that properly.

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      44. Inga,

        I don’t always agree with you, but I think you are absolutely right about what is going to happen when. And there is indeed plenty of time to deal with that.

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      45. Inga: But its all for the second half of the season: neither Cersei, nor Euron or the GC can make any reasonable move until they know the outcome of the Winterfell battle.

        I mentioned the part about Euron and the GC possibly doing stuff in KL early in lieu of heading to attack Winterfell as some people expect or even assume. There would at least be more people there for “things” to happen. If they pop in and see Cersei early in episode 1 and she immediately sends them to attack Winterfell then all we have left is Cersei, Qyburn and the Mountain. #King’sBlanding

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      46. Clob: I mentioned the part about Euron and the GC possibly doing stuff in KL early in lieu of heading to attack Winterfell as some people expect or even assume.There would at least be more people there for “things” to happen.If they pop in and see Cersei early in episode 1 and she immediately sends them to attack Winterfell then all we have left is Cersei, Qyburn and the Mountain.#King’sBlanding

        #King’sBlanding 😀

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      47. Clob: That’s going to be a surprise.This season there are going to be a few Bud Light medieval commercials during each episode. 😉

        hahahahha…fair enough

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      48. Glenda Withers:
        Sorry if it’s already been asked but are these times with or without bazillions of adverts?

        I’m pretty sure it’s the official runtime without the Ads.

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      49. Inga:
        Nick20,

        I don’t think Jon will find about his parentage in the first episode, or, if he does, I expect it to be the closing scene. The whole drama of Jon’s parentage revelation should fall into Ep 2. So, there’s plenty of time to deal with that properly.

        I don’t know. Episode 2 seems late. By Episode 2, I expect to see fallout of the revelation, and preparations for the battle of Episode 3.

        I think he needs to find out in Episode 1. Because otherwise, the focus of Episode 2 may be far too split. If Jon and the others have to find out about his parentage, react to it, discuss it, AND prepare for the battle that will determine the fate of humanity in the space of 58 minutes, I think that will feel extremely odd and uneven.

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      50. Apollo,

        Talk about a sophmorish reply, the vast majority of GoT fans are college educated, including yours truly, perhaps writing a more nuanced reply explaining your condescension would facilitate a more constructive rethinking on my part concerning my opinion.

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      51. I’m very worried about Episode 3…not only is it ‘only’ 60 minutes but I’m worried that the entire battle will take place at night…that’s a terrible decision to make it a completely dark, night battle…S2 Blackwater was good for the time because the show didn’t have the budget plus the battle worked better at night with the wildfire…S4 Battle of Castle Black was the most disappointing battle episode of the entire series

        after the Loot Train Battle, Hardhome and Battle of the Bastards all taking place in the daytime and looking glorious this is a major letdown…HBO gave them a huge budget for exactly this battle and they choose to hide it in darkness and shadows

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      52. Nick20: I don’t know. Episode 2 seems late. By Episode 2, I expect to see fallout of the revelation, and preparations for the battle of Episode 3.

        I think he needs to find out in Episode 1. Because otherwise, the focus of Episode 2 may be far too split. If Jon and the others have to find out about his parentage, react to it, discuss it, AND prepare for the battle that will determine the fate of humanity in the space of 58 minutes, I think that will feel extremely odd and uneven.

        I would love for Jon to find out about his parentage and then reveal it to everyone in the great hall, then everyone just reacting like “yeah, we all kind of knew that. Only old Robert B. didn’t” LOL

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      53. TitusTroy:
        I’m very worried about Episode 3…not only is it ‘only’ 60 minutes but I’m worried that the entire battle will take place at night…that’s a terrible decision to make it a completely dark, night battle…S2 Blackwater was good for the time because the show didn’t have the budget plus the battle worked better at night with the wildfire…S4 Battle of Castle Black was the most disappointing battle episode of the entire series

        after the Loot Train Battle, Hardhome and Battle of the Bastards all taking place in the daytime and looking glorious this is a major letdown…HBO gave them a huge budget for exactly this battle and they choose to hide it in darkness and shadows

        Watchers on the Wall battle is my second favorite behind Hardhome. I have no doubt that Sapochnik will deliver tv history in 803.

        Kit all but confirmed on Colbert the entire battle is at night.

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      54. TitusTroy,

        Battle of Castle Black was my favourite battle. I had absolutely no problem seeing everything. But you better see it on a decent tv. It wouldn’t be right to do this battle during the day because it will be about the long night.

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      55. Jack Bauer 24,

        I’m hoping for the best but my excitement just dropped a bit…why not have half the battle at night and half during the day??!…8 years of buildup for Winter is Coming only to have it all at night where details in the background will be hard to make out…I trust Sapochnik but I don’t like this choice by the showrunners

        as far as having a good TV…I have an excellent TV with pretty much perfect blacks- LG C7 OLED

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      56. I apologize to any that are offended by my statements concerning a shows runtime, there are more important things going on that should require my attention. The artists involved in this show have outdone themselves in their effort and artisan expertise in bringing such an outstanding masterpiece of filmmaking for people to enjoy.
        I should concentrate on more important things, such as assisting the mitigating efforts of others in neutralizing one of America’s worst Presidents, a man without a moral compass, supported by those that purportedly exalt the most moral, Jesus. A good entertaining example is watch YouTube “GOP Jesus” video.

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      57. I don’t know if it has been discussed before, but has the story arc of the three dragons been brought up? I for one am of the notion that none survive. I am sure Dany will get what she set out for and end up ruling. Ruling with dragons will be tantamount to ruling by fear. This is not her way and definitely not in her narrative. Losing all dragons and having triplets to Jon may be part of the much vaunted end theory.

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      58. Tyjon:
        I apologize to any that are offended by my statements concerning a shows runtime, there are more important things going on that should require my attention. The artists involved in this show have outdone themselves in their effort and artisan expertise in bringing such an outstanding masterpiece of filmmaking for people to enjoy.
        I should concentrate on more important things, such as assisting the mitigating efforts of others in neutralizing one of America’s worst Presidents, a man without a moral compass, supported by those that purportedly exalt the most moral, Jesus. A good entertaining example is watch YouTube “GOP Jesus” video.

        Yes.

        You go do that.

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      59. TitusTroy: I’m hoping for the best but my excitement just dropped a bit…why not have half the battle at night and half during the day??!…8 years of buildup for Winter is Coming only to have it all at night where details in the background will be hard to make out…I trust Sapochnik but I don’t like this choice by the showrunners

        It’s the battle against the Long Night to bring the Dawn. It kind of has to happen at night, thematically, at least until the end.

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      60. TitusTroy,

        I believe you’ll get what you ask for. If you watch the trailer, you’ll see that there’s light comming through windows in Arya’s chase scenes. So, they’s stand till dawn and the outcome of the battle will be revielied by the sunrise.

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      61. TitusTroy,

        Let me just say this: The recent WF Crypts teaser was filmed in the dark, with only torch light. Yet, the characters and interiors were plainly visible.

        I’d give Sapochnik the benefit of the doubt, rather than pre-whinging about scenes we haven’t seen yet.

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      62. Clob: “The Spoils of War” at 50 minutes is the shortest of the series.The length didn’t prevent it from being a good episode but it is also very evident that it’s short.This premiere of 54 minutes is right about the average length for the series.It’s only four more minutes but it should still feel “normal.”We fans just always want as much as we can get.

        “Spoils of War” didn’t feel like the shortest episode. Perhaps that’s because there was no High Sparrow-type fast-forwardable filler. Or maybe because I watched ASNAWP vs. Brienne over and over again on a perpetual playback loop.

          Quote  Reply

      63. Part of the blame for the anticipation is squarely on the HBO president and his statement, they are like 6 movies. I’m wondering if it’s all misdirection, and episode 5 is going to catch us unaware and k/o the viewer.

          Quote  Reply

      64. Ten Bears: “Spoils of War” didn’t feel like the shortest episode. Perhaps that’s because there was no High Sparrow-type fast-forwardable filler. Or maybe because I watched ASNAWP vs. Brienne over and over again on a perpetual playback loop.

        “Spoils” is definitely one of my favorite episodes of the series. But I have to say, that I was looking forward to 4 approx 80 minute episodes, and now I feel disappointed about episode 3. The surgeon general may have had to put a warning of heart failure if D&D let it “The Long Night” battle extend more than an hour.. It’s going to be a super intense episode, that’s for sure. I predict it will be called “The Long Night” and not “The Battle of Winterfell”. I know the cast was calling it that, but it really does fit…but it would have fit even more if it was 80 minutes!! Oh well. I will remind myself how much I really did love “Spoils”

          Quote  Reply

      65. Tyjon,

        Tyjon, your heart and head are in the right place.

        You should free to express your disappointment (without abusing anyone) without rude feedback. Emotion is part of who we all are. Perhaps with reflection, anyone immediate reaction is modified.

        The GOT press up to now has focused on how many months they were filming and may have led to an impression that they would have more decent footage for a longer season. That is an awful lot of work on the cutting floor or in practising or on tea breaks.

        I do not myself care about the length. I think D&D needs to focus on quality. So perhaps short and impactful is better. 7 hours of TV is a lot! Just over 3 normal 2 hour movies. Let us enjoy!

          Quote  Reply

      66. Not thrilled to see Episode 3 being done in 60 minutes. As I understood them, we are getting the longest battle sequence of all time. That one ought to have a proper setup. Ultimately, it can mean nothing, but I would have preferred to have seen Episode 3 length being 80 minutes and Episode 4 60 minutes, not vice versa.

        And although the episodes are longer, I have to say that we still have 2 hours less than regular 10-episodes-long season. That is not super-sized season in my book. Perhaps editing took more of screentime than they anticipated. Which can mean that Extended/Deleted Scenes may be more interesting than ever.

          Quote  Reply

      67. TitusTroy:

        I’m very worried about Episode 3…not only is it ‘only’ 60 minutes but I’m worried that the entire battle will take place at night…that’s a terrible decision to make it a completely dark, night battle…S2 Blackwater was good for the time because the show didn’t have the budget plus the battle worked better at night with the wildfire…S4 Battle of Castle Black was the most disappointing battle episode of the entire series

        after the Loot Train Battle, Hardhome and Battle of the Bastards all taking place in the daytime and looking glorious this is a major letdown…HBO gave them a huge budget for exactly this battle and they choose to hide it in darkness and shadows

        A. Battle for the Wall was awesome.

        B. The battle in Season 8 NEEDS to happen at night. What were you expecting ? It’s called the Long Night for a reason. Now that the WW have arrived, they bring darkness and nightfall with them.

        That’s whole idea and theme that has been established since Book 1 and Season 1.

          Quote  Reply

      68. Mladen Vukcevic:
        Not thrilled to see Episode 3 being done in 60 minutes. As I understood them, we are getting the longest battle sequence of all time. That one ought to have a proper setup. Ultimately, it can mean nothing, but I would have preferred to have seen Episode 3 length being 80 minutes and Episode 4 60 minutes, not vice versa.

        And although the episodes are longer, I have to say that we still have 2 hours less than regular 10-episodes-long season. That is not super-sized season in my book. Perhaps editing took more of screentime than they anticipated. Which can mean that Extended/Deleted Scenes may be more interesting than ever.

        I agree on your first point about Episode 3 being too short.

        As for the rest, I don’t know how you expected a 6 episode season to be longer than a 10 episode season.

        No one said that the season would be the longest. Only that it would have the longest average episode run time. Which it does.

        But the whole point of the shorter season was to spend more time and resources on less footage.

        If they had produced more minutes of screen time for Season 8 than for previous seasons, it would have defeated the purpose of doing a shorter season.

          Quote  Reply

      69. I’ll have to admit that the greedy side of me wants longer episodes; as long as possible so there is more time spent seeing the all these characters interact. However, I’m generally fine with these run-times. I was hoping ep. 6 would push 90 minutes, but having the last three episodes right around 80 minutes is going to be pretty damn epic!

        Also, there are far fewer storylines and locations to jump between now, so I’m optimistic that 54 minutes for the premiere split between Winterfell, King’s Landing, and wherever Theon is or will go is going to be sufficient. And possibly some quick scenes of Jamie on his way to Winterfell. Although no matter how much Arya we get in 8×01, I’m sure I’ll be screaming “more ASNAWP” by the time it’s over. 🙂

          Quote  Reply

      70. Tyjon,

        I completely agree there are many more important things on which to concentrate at this time in history, and I very strongly agree with your current stance that we have a lot of ‘real life’ work to do… however…

        GoT has been an excellent escape from current news – national and international, and from many, many tragic happenings in my own life over the past few years. For me, the show has been a chance to put it all aside, at least for a little while.

        As for my part, Watchers on the Wall has provided a much needed of distraction, both through The Long Night and from ‘real life’ horrors, because the night IS dark, and FULL of terrors.

        I wish the episodes were longer, seven hells, I wish the season were longer; they are what they are and I look forward to D&D’s version as well as GRRM’s.

        I look forward to WotW discussions and wish them good fortune in the wars to come.

        I’m simply, and eternally grateful for HBO to have attempted this at all. Every. Single. Episode.

        :: I’ll go back to lurking now ::

          Quote  Reply

      71. Enharmony1625: ASNAWP

        I did watch Maisie today in an interview where she said that her scene was the actual last scene ever shot (not just by her, but the actual final scene shot by anyone) It was the final wrap, so it was extra emotional, and she was alone! I know they shoot out of order, but I have to think Maisie will be in many scenes this year, since she was the last one finished shooting. When I re-watch, I still yell at the TV when Maisie’s not in the credits that week! At least in season 7 she started having her own credits screen (instead of having other actors on the same screen). This year, it would be cool to see it say, “..with Maisie Williams” Apparently, having it say “with…..” as the very last credit is a big thing and I think I read you get paid more for that….or at least it’s in your contract or something. It must have been in Ian Glenn’s contract. I think we’re in store for lots of ASNAWP this season. I did hear in one of her interviews that there won’t be any Sansa/Arya mistrust this season like we saw last year. I believe they build on the relationship that grew at the end of season 7 with their scene together on the battlements. Maisie said something like they understand each other more this year (about what they both have gone through). The hype is definitely out there and I’m eating it up. There have been a ton of interviews that last couple of days and the HBO makeup effects video was pretty cool that I just saw today.

          Quote  Reply

      72. This is the most disappointing news I’ve heard about season 8!
        In season 7, the Dany and Jon interaction was to short. I understand they’ve spend about one year together before they “ride each-other”, but it was a very fast year.
        GoT was among the few TV series where slow pacing actually worked. Why ruin that?
        I think a one hour longer season 7 and a two hours longer season 8 would have been perfect.
        In season 7 the World was forgotten and they focused only on the main characters.
        It looks like we will lose the world again in season 8; together with the farewell to the tv-series.
        Sad!

          Quote  Reply

      73. Hmmm, while I wasn’t expecting episodes of 80+ minutes to be the norm this season, the statements made by people on the show and the president of HBO did create a false sense of all the episodes being much longer than usual. I admit, I am a bit disappointed with some of these episode lengths. I wouldn’t have been, I don’t think, had they not hyped up movie-like episodes. I was really hoping for a 90 minute finale, because I would love to see all storylines, character arcs fully fleshed out and brought to an end. I did enjoy season 7 a lot, but I do agree with the familiar criticism that it felt exceedingly rushed compared to the pacing for most of the prior seasons. Impactful character interactions felt rushed (such as a the scenes where we have Starks reuniting, or when the wight-hunt crew all reunited, or most of the scenes with Jon and Dany that could have been utilised more to show the growing attraction/fondness for each other). With almost every meaningful emotional scene. I felt they cut them short. I loved the slower pacing of episode 7. I am a bit worried we will see more of the same in season 8.

        Having said all that, knowing these times doesn’t inpact my excitement for the season to come. I have complete faith in D&D and the whole crew to produce what will be the most astonishing season of TV ever made. I echo Enharmony’s sensitments, it is probably the greedy side of me wanting longer episodes.

          Quote  Reply

      74. Could be very disappointing this end season, there should of been 10 episodes last season so they didn’t rush it as it did feel a little rushed, in hindsight it’s amazing how much time they wasted on sparrows and and faceless men and Ed sheran only to rush the good stuff,
        This season only 6 episodes all that wait for 54 mins and a a week wait for another standard length, then you have the battle and rush to the end,
        hopefully it will great but last season did pose some worry,

          Quote  Reply

      75. Iul:
        This is the most disappointing news I’ve heard about season 8!
        In season 7, the Dany and Jon interaction was to short. I understand they’ve spend about one year together before they “ride each-other”, but it was a very fast year

        ffs they had more time together than a lot of characters have screentime generally!

        Over 45 minutes of scenes! People have been begging for Jon and Arya to reunite on the basis of 1 short scene for years!

          Quote  Reply

      76. Tron79,

        Maisie was indeed the last cast member to film for season 8, and she has said in interviews that Arya will have a lot to do this season so that I am super excited about!

        I also saw that interview where both Sophie and Maisie said that their characters have matured past their rivalry we saw last season. They have a respect for each other and understand what each has had to go through in order to survive. And that’s excellent news! I’ve said it before, but Arya+Sansa is a force to be reckoned with!

        “You may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through both your hearts. You need her, as she needs you.” -Ned Stark

          Quote  Reply

      77. Inga:
        Clob,
        Jack Bauer 24,

        You have forgotten Bernadette, Cersei’s handmaden. But she’ll hardy add any intrigue to King’s Landing plot anyway:)

        I have not forgotten Bernadette. She’s my rebound crush after the tragic death of Myranda at the hands of that craven villain Reek (rhymes with geek).

          Quote  Reply

      78. Enharmony1625,

        “Although no matter how much Arya we get in 8×01, I’m sure I’ll be screaming “more ASNAWP” by the time it’s over. 🙂”
        ______
        And you won’t be alone.

          Quote  Reply

      79. LL of Darkwater:
        Tyjon,

        “… GoT has been an excellent escape from current news – national and international, and from many, many tragic happenings in my own life over the past few years. For me, the show has been a chance to put it all aside, at least for a little while.

        As for my part, Watchers on the Wall has provided a much needed of distraction, both through The Long Night and from ‘real life’ horrors, because the night IS dark, and FULL of terrors….”
        ***

        :: I’ll go back to lurking now ::

        _____________
        Well said! I feel the same way.
        But please consider not going back to lurking. The more voices here, the better.

          Quote  Reply

      80. Tron79: I did watch Maisie today in an interview where she said that her scene was the actual last scene ever shot (not just by her, but the actual final scene shot by anyone) It was the final wrap, so it was extra emotional, and she was alone!I know they shoot out of order, but I have to think Maisie will be in many scenes this year, since she was the last one finished shooting. When I re-watch, I still yell at the TV when Maisie’s not in the credits that week! At least in season 7 she started having her own credits screen (instead of having other actors on the same screen).
        ***

        I think we’re in store for lots of ASNAWP this season. I did hear in one of her interviews that there won’t be any Sansa/Arya mistrust this season like we saw last year.I believe they build on the relationship that grew at the end of season 7 with their scene together on the battlements.Maisie said something like they understand each other more this year (about what they both have gone through). The hype is definitely out there and I’m eating it up….
        ____________

        As a pre-books reader, show-only fan, my uninformed assumption has been that the showrunners had to figure out something for Arya to do during the chronological gap between the end of Arya’s Braavos story line in TWOW “Mercy” chapter, and the end game events we’ll see in S8, because GRRM hadn’t been able to give the showrunners any details of what Arya would be doing from the time she left the Braavos theater troupe, until her part in the AotD vs. Humankind final showdown.

        That’s why (I suspect) Arya’s post-Braavos show story lines essentially cut and pasted the books’ Lord Manderly Frey Pies side story and Lady Stoneheart Freys Extermination Program; and then included a PsychoArya variant as a bit player in the wonky S7 Littlefinger-Sansa WF plot, which included the dragged-out, overblown enmity between Sansa and Arya – and only a few minutes devoted to reconciliation on the WF battlements reconciliation at the end of S7e7.

        Don’t get me wrong: I loved the S7e4 Arya scenes, especially from the moment we see the back of Arya’s head as she enters the WF courtyard, all cleaned up with a new ‘do and dressed in a Ned 2.0 combat suit, and her ensuing dagger-flipping and dagger-switching bookending that wonderfully choreographed sparring match with Brienne.

        (Though I would attribute the blame to the particular director rather than the writers, the S7e2 Nymeria reunion was somewhat underwhelming. I had hoped for something more emotionally resonant to “bookend” the S1 scene in which Arya is forced to send Nymeria away.)

        We’re past all of that now. For me, at least, the show started with Arya as a central figure, and S1 events as seen through Arya’s eyes showed us what was really going on even if the “adult” characters were deluded or distracted. (If only Ned had listened to Arya when she tried to tell him what she’d overheard the two strangers discussing in the Red Keep basement; or when Ned told her Sansa must take Joffrey’s side even when he is wrong, and Ned had no comeback when Arya asked: “But how can you let her marry someone like that?”) I digress… Sorry for rambling.

        My point (if there was one), was that I concur with you: After “riding the pine”* somewhat for the past few seasons, I’m confident Arya will be one of the superstars of S8. Everything points in that direction: the ASNAWP-centric trailer; the cast interviews; the teasers; the natural culmination of Arya’s seven seasons of martial arts training and weapons acquisitions; and “saving” Arya’s reunions with Jon, Sandor, Gendry, Melisandre, et al. until the final season.

        * [Baseball/football term for back-up, second-string players sitting on the bench, watching the first-stringers/starters who are on the field.]

        #LastWomanStanding
        #ASNAWP

          Quote  Reply

      81. costello,

        Yes, this is perhaps the point.

        Jon and Arya delivered a short scene that was so rich with emotion that I think everyone understood the connection between the two. Their sibling chemistry was clear. Even at that age, Maise did well. Jon was outstanding. Of course, their affection is covered in the book as well so it was expected. And Needle has served as a reminder of that scene over the series.

        Daenerys and Jon seemed rushed and much shorter because – well, because the acting by Emilia was not up to the standard required. Kit is not a great actor, he is fine/ok, and has been outstanding sometimes. Emilia and Kit on-screen together communicate less than they should be. So their 45 minutes was nearly over before we were barely able to see what the writers and directors were trying to deliver. Even after Davos told us, we were still peering really hard trying to see it. Then the sex scene lacked emotional intensity and vulnerability – that may have been the directors choice. Either that or the editor had to do the best she could with the acting.

        Acting can enlighten. Acting can obscure.

          Quote  Reply

      82. Tyjon:
        I apologize to any that are offended by my statements concerning a shows runtime, there are more important things going on that should require my attention. The artists involved in this show have outdone themselves in their effort and artisan expertise in bringing such an outstanding masterpiece of filmmaking for people to enjoy.
        I should concentrate on more important things, such as assisting the mitigating efforts of others in neutralizing one of America’s worst Presidents, a man without a moral compass, supported by those that purportedly exalt the most moral, Jesus. A good entertaining example is watch YouTube “GOP Jesus” video.

        ______________
        You can concentrate on both at the same time. There are some parallels.

        You’ve got a YMBQ waiting in the wings…

        https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/R1325_FEA_Cortez_RGB.jpg

        …. and a Night King-type, misanthropic character posing an existential threat…

        https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_1600/zhifcsxnupag4fxwqszp.jpg

        Not to mention the recurring theme in GoT of power-hungry hypocrites (e.g., High Sparrow) hijacking “religion” and using the supposed will of “God” or “Gods” as a pretext to elevate themselves and oppress others, as contrasted with those who genuinely try to implement the moral lessons of religion (e.g., Brother Ray).

          Quote  Reply

      83. Mango,

        I’m sorry, but this just doesn’t make sense. Fact is that fans just build things up in their heads. There’s nothing all that outstanding out of the single 3 minute Jon and Arya scene. It’s cute scene between characters we didn’t know, that’s it.

        And saying something is short and rushed, is a pretty objective statement! If you say you didn’t like it that’s an entirely different thing

          Quote  Reply

      84. costello,

        Yes, you make a good point.

        Note that there are gift scenes concerning swords that are short but carry meaning through the series. Needle (gifted once) and Oathkeeper (gifted twice). Both become symbols of something joining the giver and the receiver.

        It is in this scene that Arya receives Needle. Needle becomes a symbol of home and identity for her. So add a fraction also every scene in which Needle appears to that two…..just teasing.

        Jon and Arya are also well covered in the book so some of the scene’s impact was already built in.

        That said I do not expect the Jon-Arya reunion to be a long extended event given other pressing storylines. It will be emotional and important but my expectations are not as big others may have.

          Quote  Reply

      85. costello,

        I agree. Jon and Dany’s Season 7 screentime and scenes were for me enough. I said their interaction was short tanking into account that they were together for one year.
        The problem with last season was the world. There were no more distances, armies and ravens/dragons traveling huge distances very fast and so on. For example, episode 5 should have been two episodes.
        I want season 8 to remember that we are on Planetos (with all the magic and rules the show has opted to keep), of course characters are important, but the world is the other important half and I don’t want it ignored.

          Quote  Reply

      86. Ten Bears: _____________Well said! I feel the same way.But please consider not going back to lurking. The more voices here, the better.

        (I hope I did that ‘Quote Reply’ thing correctly; as a lurker, I’m not fluent in contributing here.)

        Thanks, Ten Bears, I often look forward to reading your comments, as well as many other regulars. I’m usually not up to the task of contributing since I feel as if I’m just echoing previous posts… ” Yeah! What ____ said! ” just seems to be not enough.

        Anyway…

        So, yes, I very much look forward to April 14. But I’m not ready!! I’ve avoided most other forums and posts and sites during The Long Night – not necessarily to stay clear of theories so much as to avoid tin foil and spoilers. Now, I go down rabbit holes on a regular basis! (My thoughts are strong; my soul is hungry and my curiosity has taken over against my better judgment. No good will come of this, I’m certain.)

        But still, I am so not ready! I’m hosting a Watch Party, and (may the Old Gods and the New save me) all my purchases have not yet arrived in my mailbox! I’ve got the menu planned, but seven hells, that’s as far as I’ve gotten this far! I have walls to faux paint, feast gear to fetch from storage (also known as the Dark and Scary Depths of The Garage), I’ve garb that needs mending, Hoth (also known as my behemoth freezer, also known as The Land North of The Wall) to defrost, ravens to send, tapestries to clean, swords to polish! I am NOT ready!

        Mostly, I’m not prepared for The End; not prepared to see this series go. During this Long Night, I’ve watched, re-watched, and re-re-watched all the seasons. I’ve read (again and again) the books, I’m already seeking therapy and support groups to help with the inevitable sorrow in the days to come. At least there are books (again I pray to the Gods, the Old and the New and Those Unknown and Without Name) from GRRM to come. And the prequel.

        Still, I am overcome with anticipation as well as dread, for the Last Episode, no matter the length of the episode.

        ::: sigh :::

          Quote  Reply

      87. Mango,

        Please speak for yourself because I was more than satisfied with a majority of their scenes and felt their time together was more than enough to develop a budding romance.

        And as far as Kit and Emilia’s acting abilities go, I think you’re also being a tad harsh. Both of them do a fine job as their character and have numerous stand out scenes that display their overall potential. And they’ve come bounds for where they started in season one.

          Quote  Reply

      88. costello,

        Did you ever read the books. Probably not. If you did you know how many times Jon though about his sister and misses her. And how much Arya misses him. Yes we did only watch one scene of them together but there is a history of years for them before the show starts. Their reunion is very important and needs to be perfect.

        About the runtimes. Only a bit disappointed with episode 3. They talked about the biggest battle ever made. And I don’t hope they start the episode directly with the battle. I hope at least a couple of minutes of preperation. And a couple of minutes of ending the episode.

        About the other episodes. Episode 3 is the break episode. Episode 1 and 2 the build up. And not disappointed. Yes they could have added a scene but I think almost 2 hours build up is enough.

        The last 3 episodes is I think split in storylines. Every episode will close one storyline. 80 minutes per story line is enough. We can even assume the Last episode just focus on one storyline that is left so 80 minutes enough for the final.

        I don’t think people need to look at the final as the final but more like the last 3 episodes as the final split in 3 parts.

        Can’t wait only a month away.

          Quote  Reply

      89. We’re spoiled, really. The average length of a network drama has been around 41-44 minutes in length for years now. On average GOT has the highest running times of any cable drama this decade…

          Quote  Reply

      90. Kevin1989,

        It’s also possible that the battle might spill over into Episode 4, as that one is longer than i expected. I was expecting 3 to be 80 min and 4 to be 60 or so.

        On the matter of movie run times, it seems they’ve gotten longer. Kids movies are pushing two hours and blockbuster are pushing three hours, or at least 2.5, even when the stories don’t warrant such time.

          Quote  Reply

      91. Edward,

        I am not sure why to think I could possibly aspire to be speaking for you. I do not know you.

        I speak for myself and others with whom I have discussed this issue and we share this viewpoint. And no, they do not know you either.

        If they bother you, in the future, feel free to skip over reading my comments. That would work for us both, no?

          Quote  Reply

      92. LL of Darkwater,

        There are some scenes I’ll never get tired of rewatching. With 67 episodes already aired and the final 6 still to come, there should be enough to compile a highlights reel that will entertain me for years to come.

        So while it may be sad when it all comes to an end, at least this show lasted eight seasons – and didn’t get cancelled or turn into total crap after one or two seasons like so many other shows I started watching over the years.

        I haven’t even read the books yet, so that’s something I’m looking forward to – once I see if George finishes them.

        PS I like your writing. Hope to see more…

          Quote  Reply

      93. Edward,

        I am not sure why you seem to think that I could possibly aspire to be speaking for you. I do not know you.

        I speak for myself and others with whom I have discussed this issue and we share this viewpoint. And no, they do not know you either.

        If my posts bother you feel free to skip reading my future comments. That would work for us both, no?

          Quote  Reply

      94. Mango,

        Don’t be rude. There are people that share your viewpoint, there are those who share Edward’s viewpoint, too. As for me, Jon & Dany was perfection, especially in terms of acting.

          Quote  Reply

      95. Mango:
        costello,

        “Yes, this is perhaps the point.

        Jon and Arya delivered a short scene that was so rich with emotion that I think everyone understood the connection between the two. Their sibling chemistry was clear. Even at that age, Maise did well.Jon was outstanding. Of course, their affection is covered in the book as well so it was expected.And Needle has served as a reminder of that scene over the series.

        Daenerys and Jon seemed rushed and much shorter because – well, because the acting by Emilia was not up to the standard required. Kit is not a great actor, he is fine/ok, and has been outstanding sometimes. Emilia and Kit on-screen together communicate less than they should be. So their 45 minutes was nearly over before we were barely able to see what the writers and directors were trying to deliver. Even after Davos told us, we were still peering really hard trying to see it. Then the sex scene lacked emotional intensity and vulnerability – that may have been the directors choice. Either that or the editor had to do the best she could with the acting.

        Acting can enlighten. Acting can obscure.”

        ______________
        To Mango:
        re: Your 3/12/19, 11:07 reply (above) to commenter (3/12/19, at 8:11 am) comparing Jon & Dany’s S7 scenes vs. Jon & Arya S1 scene. That 8:11 am comment to which you replied stated in part: Over 45 minutes of scenes! People have been begging for Jon and Arya to reunite on the basis of 1 short scene for years.”
        __________

        I had typed out a long-winded reply of my own before I saw that you had stated succinctly pretty much what I was going to say in way too many words.
        With apologies in advance, I am going to post my reply anyway, in part because I think it’s important to praise the showrunners when they create memorable scenes, and to commend the actors when their performances are pitch perfect. So here goes…

        __________
        TB Reply:

        I understand that the books developed Jon and Arya’s closeness by getting inside their heads. Still, that 2-3 minute scene in S1e2 of the show was beautifully acted and accomplished quite a bit.

        (For reference, here’s a link to that S1e2 scene, from 1:42 – end).

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB9Ks-sL6So

        • First of all, in those two-three minutes Maisie Williams as Arya did an amazing job of acting a gamut of emotions: politely thanking Nymeria; mimicking Septa Mordane; trying (unsuccessfully) to impress her brother with how well she’d trained Nymeria; establishing her easy familiarity with her brother; expressing sheer delight (“a present!”) when Jon tells her her he has something for her; going to hug Jon when he looks in her eyes and says “I’m going to miss you;” and after being reminded to be careful and put down the sword first, leaping into his arms with unrestrained affection – and naming her new sword “Needle”; and Jon hugging her tightly to him and closing his eyes as the scene ends. That scene also gave us a glimpse of the tender side of Jon Snow.

        • That sword became a reminder of Arya’s enduring love for Jon, especially in later scenes with Ned in S1e3 (“a blade with a name;” taking Needle – and then handing it back to her), and with Sandor in S4e1 (Sandor: “Of course you named your sword;” Sandor: “Hey, get back here!”… Arya: “My brother gave me that sword!”); S4e5 (Sandor taking Needle – and then handing it back to her); and S4e7 (Sandor: “You say your brother gave you that sword. My brother gave me this“).

        • And of course, there was Maisie Williams’s tour de force in S5e3, wordlessly translating the iconic “Needle was Jon Snow’s smile” internal monologue from “A Feast for Crows”, with just her facial expressions conveying the emotion of that written passage. Though I have not read the books, I read that passage because so many readers cited it as one of their favorites.

        Here’s a narrated version of the scene in GoT S5e3 in which the book passage from “A Feast for Crows”* is read aloud over the visual of Maisie/Arya on the Braavos dock.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDMzqafhdY4

        • After the Waif asked where her brothers and sister are now and Arya answered, “They may be dead for all a girl knows” in S6e3, Arya was incredulous (and snapped out of her attitude of cold indifference) when Hot Pie told her in S7s2: “Jon Snow came down from Castle Black with a wildling army and won the Battle of the Bastards. He’s King in the North now.” That convinced her to head home instead of heading south to whack Cersei.

        • That 2-3 minute scene in early S1 with Jon and Needle can’t really be considered in isolation. Even for show-only fans, it served as an indelible reminder of Arya’s affection for Jon, which never wavered throughout her seven-year odyssey.

        • Besides, despite its brevity, I thought it packed more emotional punch than the longer screen time devoted to the Jon & Dany “romance” in S7. I rewatched last season and couldn’t really pinpoint a scene between them that was emotionally evocative. Jon just knocked on Dany’s stateroom door without saying anything, she let him in without saying anything, and the next thing you know they’re having sex – without saying anything. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.)

        _________________________
        * I typed out the text, including portions before and after the memorable paragraph, because I thought it was beautifully written:

        [Excerpted from “A Feast for Crows”]

        “At the water’s edge she stopped, the silver fork in hand. It was real silver, solid through and through. It’s not my fork. It was Salty that he gave it to. she tossed it underhand, hearing the soft plop as it sunk below the water.

        Her floppy hat went next, then the gloves. They were Salty’s too. She emptied her pouch into her palm; five silver stags, nine copper stars, some pennies and halfpennies and groats. She scattered them across the water. Next her boots. They made the loudest splashes. Her dagger followed, the one she’d stolen off the archer who had begged the Hound for mercy. Her swordbelt went into the canal. Her cloak, tunic, breeches, smallclothes, all of it. All but Needle.

        She stood at the end of the dock, pale and goosefleshed and shivering in the fog. In her hand, Needle seemed to whisper to her. Stick them with the pointy end, it said, and, don’t tell Sansa! Mikken’s mark was on the blade. Needle was too small to be a proper sword, it was hardly more than a toy. She’d been a stupid little girl when Jon had it made for her. “It’s just a sword,” she said, aloud this time…

        … but it wasn’t.

        Needle was Robb and Bran and Rickon, her mother and her father, even Sansa. Needle was Winterfell’s grey walls, and the laughter of its people. Needle was the summer snows, Old Nan’s stories, the heart tree with its red leaves and scary face, the warm earthy smell of the glass gardens, the sound of the north wind rattling the shutters of her room. Needle was Jon Snow’s smile. He used to mess my hair and call me “little sister,” she remembered, and suddenly there were tears in her eyes.

        Polliver had stolen the sword from her when the Mountain’s men took her captive, but when she and the Hound walked into the inn at the crossroads, there it was. The gods wanted me to have it. Not the Seven, nor Him of the Many Faces, but her father’s gods, the old gods of the north. The Many-Faced God can have the rest, she thought, but he can’t have this.

        She padded up the steps as naked as her name day, clutching Needle. Halfway up, one of the stones rocked beneath her feet. Arya knelt and dug around its edges with her fingers. It would not move at first, but she persisted, picking at the crumbling mortar with her nails. Finally, the stone shifted. She grunted and got both hands in and pulled. A crack opened before her.

        “You’ll be safe here,” she told Needle. “No one will know where you are but me.” she pushed the sword and shield behind the step, then shoved the stone back into place, so it looked like all the other stones. As she climbed back to the temple, she counted steps, so she would know where to find the sword again. One day she might have need of it. “One day,” she whispered to herself.”

        George R.R. Martin, A Feast for Crows (A Song of Ice and Fire.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDMzqafhdY4

        Video: book text + S5e3 visual

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      96. Mango,

        I wouldn’t say that at all, both Emilia and Kit are playing very reserved characters who hide away their emotions and put on a strong front neither are particularly open with their feelings which is why in my opinion their first boat scene that Alan Taylor directed in EP6 was their best because they were both open, honest and vulnerable with each other. Nor was their romance rushed Robb fell in love with Talisa in basically the first EP he met her, two episodes together later he was willing to throw away his honor for her. Jon and Ygritte’s whole entire relationship had less screen time than Jon and Dany in S7 the difference is we have yet to see Jon and Dany in a relationship all we really saw was them getting to know each other as leaders and develop yet hide their feelings for each other, S8 will be the real test of their chemistry. People I know who are grossed out by the incest still can’t deny their chemistry, chemistry differs from person to person some people see it others don’t but I personally saw it long before their first scene together when Emilia, Kit, Lena and Alfie did that cool video photoshoot together and Kit and Emilia shared a kiss.

          Quote  Reply

      97. Mel,

        I agree with what you said. Also, their second scene together in episode 3 while watching the dragons fly is usually overlooked. There are early signs, especially with Daenerys, of growing interest towards Jon when he echoes Rhaegar’s attitude that he doesn’t like fighting and killing although he’s very good at it and the lingering looks she was giving Jon as he leaves. The scene was acted beautifully by both actors.

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      98. Mel,

        Milutin,

        IMO, the reason why we have so many complains about Jon & Dany is that we barely see this type of relationship on screen. Usually, romances on screen are about irresistable passion in some awhward situation – “we don’t choose the ones we love” type of thing.
        But Jon & Dany was very different: it was the type of love Catelyn spoke about – built up slowly and pretty much by free choice. Dany & Jon were weighting each other as rulers and persons (especially Jon) and didn’t fell in love, untill they acknowledged each onther on that level. And I guess people who complain about lack of chemistry or acting skils or whatever simply wanted to see a more conventional passion. But that wasn’t supposed to be the case.

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      99. Kevin1989:
        costello,

        Did you ever read the books. Probably not. If you did you know how many times Jon though about his sister and misses her. And how much Arya misses him. Yes we did only watch one scene of them together but there is a history of years for them before the show starts. Their reunion is very important and needs to be perfect.

        The last 3 episodes is I think split in storylines. Every episode will close one storyline. 80 minutes per story line is enough. We can even assume the Last episode just focus on one storyline that is left so 80 minutes enough for the final.

        I don’t think people need to look at the final as the final but more like the last 3 episodes as the final split in 3 parts.

        Can’t wait only a month away.

        I absolutely have read the books, and they’re completely irrelevant to how we discuss the characters in the show. In fact what you’re saying here is a perfect example of what I said, fans building things up in their heads beyond what makes sense or what was actually portrayed. We didn’t see that history on the show, and we barely hear or see any reference to it.

          Quote  Reply

      100. Inga,

        Yes. Their love comes from growing mutual admiration for each other (the similarity of their characters, experiences and beliefs) rather than just from pure passion.

          Quote  Reply

      101. Inga,

        Inga, there are persons from many different cultures on this board. In mine, my statement is not considered rude.

        I am fine with agreement or disagreement with other posters. I differed in my view from “costello” but was willing to engage.

        However, I do not try to speak on behalf of others on this board. I wanted to make that clear. And no-one speaks for me either.

          Quote  Reply

      102. Ten Bears,

        I wish you well in this quest for the liberation of your text.

        I am often verbose myself. These wordy posts often get entangled in whatever mechanisms are used to keep this place orderly. I have lost a few to this ether myself. I just imagine they have joined other posts wherever lost posts and socks go.

        May your post emerge victorious!

          Quote  Reply

      103. Mel,

        I am glad you enjoyed the depiction of the JonDany romance. In such a large viewer base, I am sure many persons enjoyed it as well. People have different concepts of what constitutes a believable romance. I did not enjoy it, found it poorly done even though I expected/wanted them to have a romance.

        Robb/Talisa was fine. Jon/Ygritte was fine. Missy/Grey was fine. Sam and Gilly was very good; Jaime/Brienne is a masterpiece despite the slowing of Jaime’s arc. Jon and Dany, huh, lol!???

        So we do not agree.

        This is discussion really started as an exchange about Arya, Jon and needle. So I will give up on this Jon/Dany mess and return my focus to the Jon/Arya more interesting discussion.

          Quote  Reply

      104. Ten

        Excellent, well grounded post! I just argued. You brought the receipts and grounded your response in the evidence.

        Nice!!!!

          Quote  Reply

      105. Mango: Robb/Talisa was fine. Jon/Ygritte was fine. Missy/Grey was fine. Sam and Gilly was very good; Jaime/Brienne is a masterpiece despite the slowing of Jaime’s arc. Jon and Dany, huh, lol!???

        I find it interesting when people say this sort of thing. J&D JUST started something, whatever that ends up being. They were shown growing a bond, are in similar positions with their people that allows them to understand each other better, they shared a pretty big traumatic event together and it eventually culminated into them surrendering to attraction. What is unbelievable about that? It’s not as if they’re an old married couple now. We probably can’t even call it a “romance” where we left off. By the time they get to Winterfell they’ll have been close for quite a while. How about we just wait and see how their relationship develops?

        All of the other relationships are/were different circumstances. There wasn’t much more shown between Robb & Talisa and Jon & Ygritte before their “coupling,” so maybe it’s just state of mind. Daenerys & Drogo went from a forced relationship quickly to “sun and stars” and people were fine with that? The other examples have been long, slow burns throughout multiple seasons. That’s not something that can be done with everyone. George wouldn’t have the time in the books for J&D either, but it’s easier to extend time in writing.

          Quote  Reply

      106. Clob,

        Ok, makes sense. I am happy to see how it progresses. Clearly my comments only address what we have been shown so far.

        I was trying to leave this topic. Just to note your remarks and to say they are quite reasonable in my humble opinion (again, speaking for myself you see!)

          Quote  Reply

      107. Mango,

        Strange, that you present Jaime & Brienne as a masterpiece of a ROMANTIC relationship. It’s a great realationship, but I don’t see anything romantic there at all. To me it’s more like a relationship between a physician and a patient or a mentror and a student: something very deep and worthy but with zero sexual connotations. And that bathtub scene simply cried of “pieta”; so, it has more of a mother and a child than of a couple. But we can agree to disagree and see how it plays (although I don’t think it will play somehow: Jaime fulfilling his oath is the ultimate resolution of that story line).

          Quote  Reply

      108. Inga,
        Well, we all have different ways of seeing the world. Makes it interesting.

        GRRM who wrote the story has spoken several times about the Jaime/Brienne’s emotional story and the performance of Gwen and NCW. He also spoke about what he as the writer is trying to do and show on screen. He was involved in several of their scenes in S1 -4 including the writing of scenes. There are several items in print and on you tube that carry his views. I have tried to include a link below.

        There are others that carry his joy with other scenes including the bath scene – he was also closely involved with filming that scene. (GRRM says that he met his wife in a hot tub.)

        I will not comment on this any further except to say GRRM loved it and this is what he intended to do. He has repeatedly said that. I am fine with that.

          Quote  Reply

      109. Mango,

        I know all that. However, if their intent was to present Jaime & Brienne as a ROMANTIC couple, they did a very poor job – at least to me;) I still see Brienne as a mentor-type figure to Jaime.

          Quote  Reply

      110. Inga,

        I keep saying I am stopping and keep failing.

        I am sorry GRRM’s story does not work for you. I think he did his best and succeeded with persons that like and understand his work.

        The end from me.

          Quote  Reply

      111. Clob,

        “…All of the other relationships are/were different circumstances. There wasn’t much more shown between Robb & Talisa and Jon & Ygritte before their “coupling,” so maybe it’s just state of mind.”

        ————-
        There’s no right or wrong here.

        I suppose I like romances that are built through dialogue. Quite a bit was shown before (and after) Ygritte and Jon “coupled”, starting with Ygritte playfully mocking and flirting with Jon Snow until she wore down his “I’m a man of the Night’s Watch!” stubbornness, and eventually, drew a rare, broad smile out of him with “Oh! A spider! Save me, Jon Snow, my dress is made of the purest silk from Tralalaeeday”. There was some really enjoyable banter back and forth between captor and prisoner (e.g., “Did you pull a knife on me in the night?”), and then their roles were reversed, before Ygritte “stole” his sword and led him into the cave. They actually talked to each other and about each other before they hooked up.

        Robb & Talisa… She impressed him with her attitude as an equal opportunity battlefield medic and her backstory, before he pissed away his army and his life by breaking his bridge access promise to Walder, and marrying her instead. I figured he was toast after his mother warned him that he couldn’t expect his bannermen to keep their oaths if he didn’t keep his. I also thought that Robb’s rash decision was, in part, to set up a contrast with Jon’s later difficult decision to leave Ygritte and return to CB.

        I’m not here to criticize. I just thought much of the Jon & Dany romance didn’t involve back-and-forth wordplay between them. Rather, it was through observations voiced by Davos and Tyrion.

        Of course, there’s nothing like a shared, crazy experience to jump start a love affair. Fighting and flame-broiling hordes of ice zombies would do the trick.

        ☃️🧝🏻‍♀️🔥 🧟‍♂️🧟‍♂️🧟‍♂️🧟‍♂️🧟‍♂️🧟‍♀️🧟‍♀️🧟‍♂️🧟‍♂️🧟‍♂️🧟‍♂️

        … And then there’s the second principle of the Tao of Steve* to arouse romantic interest (“Do something excellent in her presence”), except with the genders reversed. Who wouldn’t fall for a silver-haired dragonriding vixen flying out of the sky to save you and your buddies from imminent death?

        * Enjoyable 2000 indie flick with lots of witty dialogue, starring Greer Goodman and Donal Logue, and directed by Jenniphr Goodman.

          Quote  Reply

      112. Ten Bears: Ygritte and Jon

        Stepping away from the point that we just witnessed the START of J&D…

        There was a big difference in conveying the J&Y relationship though. It was basically the backbone and entirety of Jon’s development in that part of his storyline; how he comes to feel about the wildlings in relation to the NW and ‘his people,’ and his struggle with simply the idea of being in the NW and what that means. As it was in the books, Ygritte was THE ‘instrument’ for that. Ygritte was (alive) in sixteen episodes and nearly all of her scenes were with Jon fulfilling her book role, which was to be his significant other for a time and provide that development. All of their scenes together were basically just walking around. Even still, it all felt a bit rushed to me on the show, like they were just desperate and horny. Perhaps it felt a bit more natural from the start for readers and those in the know because it was all written out. We knew they were going to become a thing and knew that it ended sadly.

        Robb & Talisa had 11 episodes to build a relationship and like Ygritte, Talisa’s (Jeyne’s) entire purpose in the story was to be Robb’s lover.

        Jon and Daenerys have only been given a few episodes so far and there’s a lot more shit going on for each of them and around them. This is two main characters coming together near the climax of the story as opposed to some minor characters that were created specifically for their romantic involvement. As I’ve written in the past that I still stand by, J&D shouldn’t have been flirting and such like J&Y or even R&T were allowed because of all the more important stuff they had to focus on.

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      113. Clob,

        You know what? You’re right. S7 was just the start of J ❤️ D. I fear that Jon “won’t find much joy while [he’s] here“, and the parentage reveal (or NK’s meddling) is going to nip their blossoming romance in the bud.

        I know Bran feels there’s some urgency to tell Jon about his paternity. Not sure why. Though I know it won’t happen, I kind of wish Sam and Bran, after talking it over, would conclude that keeping the secret a secret, at least for the time being, would be the prudent thing to do.

          Quote  Reply

      114. Clob,

        Edit: I also wanted Sam to notice Jon & Dany were a couple, and throw back at Jon his line from S5e10 after Jon realized Sam had gotten it on with Gilly:

        “I’m glad the end of the world’s working out well for someone.”

          Quote  Reply

      115. Ten Bears:
        Clob,

        Edit: I also wanted Sam to notice Jon & Dany were a couple, and throw back at Jon his line from S5e10 after Jon realized Sam had gotten it on with Gilly:

        “I’m glad the end of the world’s working out well for someone.”

        😄👏👏

          Quote  Reply

      116. Do these times include opening and closing credits and next episode previews? If so, the viewing time for new material will be shorten by those. Right?

          Quote  Reply

      117. I’ve been travelling this week so my first opportunity to catch up on Game of Thrones news. To be honest I don’t see the issue with the premiere being less than an hour, it’s always going to be a check in episode, episode 3 we know will be very battle heavy so likely to be slightly shorter. The latter episodes I feel will be character based ending several arcs so make sense to be longer to allow the drama to unfold.

        When do we expect the premiere title, potentially next week?

          Quote  Reply

      118. I’ve been travelling this week so only now beginning to catch up on Game of Thrones news. I honestly don’t see the issue with the shorter premiere given it was always going to be a check in episode. Neither am I surprised by episode 3 given it’s likely to be battle heavy and that will be very expensive. The last three I assume will be more character focused, closing several arcs so naturally take longer to flush out.

        Could we get the premiere episode title next week if the red carpet is indeed 3rd April?

          Quote  Reply

      119. Inga:
        Milutin,

        Well, in theory Cersei and Jon & Dany with dragons could be from episodes later than Ep 3. But in general, yes – we are completely in the darkness. Even the great King’s Landing set hasn’t received any EW coverage yeat, although the cast photos were made there. All the spoilers and hints the showrunners allowed to slip are exclusively about Winterfell from Dany’s arrival to the battle.

        Yes but it makes sense to do that because any clips afterwards would potentially spoil who survives the battle at Winterfell, at this moment we only know three people definitely live from filming news those being

        Jon, Cersei and Arya, the first two we know meet in Kings Landing in episode 4 from who was directing and we know Arya is in episode 5 thanks to an Instragram post but the context is completely missing.

          Quote  Reply

      120. TitusTroy:
        I’m very worried about Episode 3…not only is it ‘only’ 60 minutes but I’m worried that the entire battle will take place at night…that’s a terrible decision to make it a completely dark, night battle…S2 Blackwater was good for the time because the show didn’t have the budget plus the battle worked better at night with the wildfire…S4 Battle of Castle Black was the most disappointing battle episode of the entire series

        after the Loot Train Battle, Hardhome and Battle of the Bastards all taking place in the daytime and looking glorious this is a major letdown…HBO gave them a huge budget for exactly this battle and they choose to hide it in darkness and shadows

        Completely disagree because this is supposed to be the long night. It should be akin to a horror film, adding the increased darkness and impending doom makes this scarier in my opinion. The individuals involved should know they are unsafe and highly likely to lose, they should be terrified.

          Quote  Reply

      121. Clob,

        How do you guys know there is a battle in that episode?

        that’s spoilery information in my opinion!

        Also, I haven’t seen the trailer yet! I am proud of myself for holding out.

          Quote  Reply

      122. Dee Stark:
        Clob,

        How do you guys know there is a battle in that episode?

        that’s spoilery information in my opinion!

        Also, I haven’t seen the trailer yet! I am proud of myself for holding out.

        Hi Dee, there are no real spoilers out there about what happens, we just know because of the director and some loose filming snippets based upon location. Essentially we know where and when in episode 3 but that’s it. You don’t need to worry about real/plot spoilers in my opinion.

          Quote  Reply

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