HBO has released seven HQ photos from next Sunday’s new episode of Game of Thrones, “Kill the Boy.”
The episode synopsis: Dany (Emilia Clarke) makes a difficult decision in Meereen. Jon (Kit Harington) recruits the help of an unexpected ally. Brienne (Gwendoline Christie) searches for Sansa (Sophie Turner). Theon (Alfie Allen) remains under Ramsay’s (Iwan Rheon) control.
The episode is written by Bryan Cogman and directed by Jeremy Podeswa.
More HQ photos below the cut!
The photos offer a look at Tyrion’s journey and that awkward family dinner glimpsed in the episode 5 clip unveiled last night.
![GOT505_103114_HS__DSC4414[1]](http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/GOT505_103114_HS__DSC44141.jpg)
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![GOT505_090414_HS_DSC_5875[1]](http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/GOT505_090414_HS_DSC_58751.jpg)
Here’s an extra one from episode 5 (according to the source coding) posted on HBO.com today:
Tyrion’s journey? I see no such photo.
(Also, Hodor.)
Wow, to be a fly on the wall for that last photo!
Meh, WordPress ate the coding on Tyrion’s pic. It’s back. 🙂
Yeah, that pic of Tyrion is awesome. “Is that a piranha?! Did a piranha just hop into the boat!?!”
Laura,
Also, this is her fourth episode already this season. And I like that we seem to be getting at least two Aemon scenes this episode.
Shireen mounting up? Does this mean she is going South too? I’d prefer if she stayed away from Melisandre…
Can you imagine being Sansa? Eating and being polite with the people that killed your mother and brother. I just can’t.
Well LF did kinda had a hand in killing/betraying Ned so shes used to it by now.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Does she know about that?
If watching Hannibal taught me anything, it’s that you can indeed be polite while eating people that killed your mother and brother. Or that didn’t kill anyone for that matter.
Can someone please explain, why the hell Stannis is taking the whole family with him? It’s not a road trip, it’s a freaking battle.
Well, mother, brother, everyone else that lived at Winterfell and loads more of Stark loyalists…
Where is Brienne?
So this basically confirms that Arya and Kings Landing aren’t in this episode. Im really not happy with how many episodes Arya seems to be missing. Hopefully she is all of the remaining episodes (shes confirmed for 6 and 8 and has filmed scenes with David Nutter who did 9 and 10 so I hope she doesn’t miss 7 as well)
KrakenDaughter,
I have a bad feeling about Shireen and Melisandre.
Yes.. Arya sweeping floors will be missed. NOT
#filler
Shireen will
Walter Harrow,
507’s called “the Gift” so I imagine she’s in that too.
How will she join Sam and Gilly if she is going with Stannis ??
Walter Harrow,
She had 5 chapters. 5 or 6 episodes for her this year is reasonable.
2,3,6,8,9 and maybe 7.
KrakenDaughter,
Good question.
mau,
Do we know for sure that she is going with Stannis? In any case I got the impression that the
I just can’t wait for maester Aemon’s speech <3
dothrakian raven,
Yes. Look at a first picture.
So Shireen is marching down with Stannis and Melisandre? That’s.. interesting and weird. How can Stannis rationalize putting his daughter in danger like that? It looks like the only one staying behind will be Selyse.
Oh my sweet Maester Aemon <3.
Given her last scene in ep3,
Geralt of Rivia,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fefNSdfvfss
WHY DIDN’T MY SPOILER TAGS WORK?! I’M SO SORRY!
SPELLING! DEAR DROWNED GODS I’M SO SORRY!
Shireen may just be riding out to see her father off. This photo of her seems to really be focusing on her greyscale, which will of course have significance for a scene coming up in another storyline.
Maester Victor,
No big, it happens. Fixed it.
It means KL or Arya isn’t in one out of 8 promo shots, that’s all… I really hope people would stop using the word “confirm” all the time when what they have is a hint at best.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
She doesn’t know that .
Sue the Fury,
Thank you!
Hodor’s Bastard,
I actually thought Ayra’s 20 seconds of sweeping was perfectly acceptable. One does not show up in Braavos on day one and instantaneously become a Faceless Man (…it happens in 3 episodes! I’m just teasing. I think the time frame is great.)
Maester Victor,
I can already sense the nerd rage from book snobs when they don’t mention Egg which i am 99% sure is not going to happen because not a single show only watcher is going to know or care who is that .
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I thought the same. Just saying good luck to daddy after him being so warm and kind with her. It also felt in the previous episode that Melisandre has no real issues with Shireen and that the problem is Selyse’s fanaticism.
Riding where and why? She can say goodbye to him in the courtyard.
It’s confirmed! Brienne smells her own pits!
Yay exciting! I predict this episode will be the best of the season so far…
Where is Shireen going?
Is there no King’s Landing in this episode??
Sansa has no chapters left yet she has a big storyline this year. This is an adaptation. The number of chapters means nothing
Also, I think she will likely be in the finale. Most of the main characters will probably be in it
I am so pumped for this episode! Especially because this is the first non-leaked episode.
I have a definite feeling now that Tyrion will be affected by greyscale….. but permanently or not, who knows? Perhaps he too will be “cured” like Shireen.
Arya is isolated from the rest of the story for now. They can’t do anything to change that. For now.
But they sent her Meryn Trant.
Maester Victor,
I’m just happy to be within the HoB&W. I have no concerns about Arya’s arc….that’s Hoyti’s job. I enjoy most everything about Arya’s story.
“Kill the Boy…” via Aemon is going to be a verklempt moment for me as well.
I got the same impression, because Selyse was especially off-put by Melisandre’s response, and spun on her heel to leave. I’ve never thought Melisandre disliked Shireen. I think she probably believes Shireen is a clever, strong girl, not nearly as weak as her mother makes her out to be, but a sinner for not following the Lord of Light. Nonetheless, I don’t think Melisandre dislikes Shireen. But, I do believe Melisandre will use both Selyse and Shireen in whatever ways the Lord of Light desires – however unpleasant it may be for either of them.
Why is Sansa still wearing Alayne’s hair? Isn’t she out in the open now?
Michael,
mmm that pigface looks nummy
Arya is in the last 40 episodes CONFIRMED!!
Silly
DamonSalvatore,
I’m sure they won’t mention Egg but maybe his sibling? I don’t know. I’m just sad, regardless. However, I suppose it is better than being his ultimate fate in the books.
Arya was in 6 episodes last year, and will probably be in 6 this year. My guess: 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 10 for certain. Maybe 9, but I think most of that ep will be Meereen and Dorne.
Chill, folks! I think that storyline will have ample screentime before the year is out.
Finally, people dressed for the cold weather!
Michael, She can’t have her roots showin’ on her wedding day! You know nothin’!
I doubt Shireen is going anywhere. If anything she is going to say goodbye to Stannis. The horse he rides in the trailer is black. So it makes sense she is just standing by his horse.
mau,
Technically speaking, when you add her encounter with Sam and them including the Mercy chapter this year, that’s seven chapters that they could have adapted this season. And Cat of the Canals has enough material inside that easily could have made multiple episodes. In fact they’re actually cutting the parts of her storyline that would have connected her with another POV character (Sam) and most likely how she learns of the slavers who went to Hardhome. The f!Arya storyline was a cool way to connect her to the North and Theon/Jon without her physically being present, but they’ve cut that out too. They could have used her growing warging abilities to connect her to the Riverlands, but both that storyline and Nymeria are out. There’s a lot they could have done to promote Arya’s presence in the series this season, but instead we’re getting Jaqen = Syrio teasings, revenge!!!, and Meryn Fucking Trant. I could have lived without the last one quite frankly.
Not to mention, so far we know Tyrion is going to be in the first six episodes even though they cut out Illyrio and the Griffs. Couldn’t part of his screen time been used to go into the backstory of Braavos or the Faceless Men instead? It’s not as if he’s done all that much in half those episodes. And other people have already gone into the problems with Sansa having a major role this season despite having less chapters than Arya. But frankly, basically being told that Arya fans have no right to complain even though other fanbases have been allowed to bitch all they want about their favorite characters lack of appearances on the show just incenses me more, so thanks~
Stannis’s map markers look like testicles. Someone had to say it.
I thought I was a better person too.
trarecar,
Hell, and the guy YOU think killed your little brothers?
Every time I look at Ramsey, I just want to brush his hair back. Whoever gelled Kit’s hair deserves an Emmy. Brienne looks like she rolled around in Stannis’ campfire. I think Selyse eats snow as Shireen leaves the Wall.
Walter Harrow,
One person counted and Arya has had about 14 minutes of screen time so far, Sansa for example has 12. Arya was 4th in the rankings. So even if she is in less amour of episodes it does not mean her storyline will suffer.
Chinoiserie,
She hasn’t appeared in 2 of the 4 episodes, yet she is number 5 in total screen time. I really believe she will wind up around the top 5 in total screen time for the entire season. And isn’t total screen time more important than number of episodes? It should be.
Parker Peter,
Man, I have a very different impression of Arya’s storyline than you do.
I get why Arya fans are upset she’s not in more episodes. But for me, I’d rather she be in less episodes, and making a significant contribution in each, than just showing up to do barely anything just because we like to see her. Sometimes, less is more. I think it’s smart to leave her alone for a couple episodes, because when we get back to her, we can more easily believe that she’s ready for the next step of her training, without it feeling too rushed.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Many thanks for the video.
Very interesting.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
You are right about screentime meaning more than number of episodes, but I guess im just annoyed that I have to wait a week to see my favourite character whenever she misses an episode. The fact that she isn’t in episode 5 means that it will be two weeks between her appearences.
So, I know it sounds stupid, but I would rather she appeared in an episode even for just two minutes just so I get my weekly fill of my favourite character 🙂
I really hope Selyse and Shireen stay at Castle Black. Mainly because if they travel it leaves me even more worried that the shot of Selyse screaming in the snow will be in reaction to seeing damn Brienne killing Stannis. I swear nothing in the show has had me more nervous than Brienne bringing up wanting revenge for Renly just at the time things are going more and more off book. I hope its just worrying over nothing because I swear if that goes down…
Seems like an episode focused on the Wall and Winterfell which is cool. I think we can stand to not have King’s Landing for an episode if it means getting some good development on the Winterfell storyline.
I hope we get a good amount of Roose.
You know- it is possible that Shireen and Selyse are headed for East watch by the bay where there aren’t as many black cloaks that may want to kidnap Shireen “the rightful king’s only daughter.”
Also- I’m just excited that Tyrion will be able to see a dragon before the season is up. There is only 6 more to go…
Someone get Shireen some cocoa butter stat.
Shireen is becoming my favorite character
That clip was the result of an unauthorized leak from a middle eastern account.
Obviously someone is mad at HBO or GoT or both, therefore HBO really needs to
tighten up. It has to be either someone behind the throne or someone who has access or hacked into their services.
Could Shireen be accompanying team Dragonstone, maybe that’s why Selyse was upset, Stannis was taking her but not mommy. I wouldn’t blame him, she is too negative besides being a lunatic.
Little man in the boat sighted!
DamonSalvatore,
You don’t think show only ppl will care that there is another targaryen that has a better claim to the throne then dany?
I would have used that as the tagline for the season! Of course, it really is “kill the child”: but nobody actually says that ever.
Indeed, a lot of book readers probably won’t get the reference! References to characters that do not actually appear in a show or film tend to be missed as viewers associate names with faces.
I’m betting on that happening in the books, and I have been since Clinton was president.
Confirming based on terrible logic has been confirmed!!
Lord of the Waters,
When characters openly and plainly state their intentions – thats rarely what ends up happening
Will there be turtles? Look up, Tyrion, and look down!
Am I alone in this but the Sparrows seemed like lunatics not so much religious fanatics. Like when that guy kills the whore in the brothel he has this crazy look on his face.. I don’t know they just don’t seem like people that are very connected with the HS’s very calm demeanor. Maybe its just me but I thought it would have been a bit better if they were just less insane acting and looking and almost more like Mel willing to burn people….she doesn’t run around like a nut she orders the sentence like she believes it. Sorry I’m not ranting just trying to thoroughly explain what I’m trying to say…and not doing a good job, thoughts anyone I would love some of your guys …and girls opinions. PLUS I’m new to this place well besides my months of obsessive reading of your guys comments…
Would Valyria be featured in the opening credits?
I guess not since Volantis wasn’t.
Because they’re pretty clearly cutting Sam going to Oldtown.
Lord of the Waters,
That makes me feel pretty secure that Brienne won’t get her wish (at least this season) to kill Stannis. It makes me much more nervous that something happens along the march to Stannis. Mel obviously gets back to the Wall and we’ve got the shot of Selyse sobbing in the snow. Hell, maybe Mel has a hand in whatever happens to Stannis. Just never know what direction they are going in the show with this.
Jaime’sHand1220,
Probably just your average pissed off psychotic commoner using religion as an excuse for violence. I’m sure not all of them are like that, It’s just that the ones who raided that brothel were especially nasty. I wonder if the High Sparrow would approve of what happened in there. The screams coming from those two men sounded terrible.
Stannis is going to flay the boltons.
Sean C.,
In what way is this pretty clear?
RichardHorpe,
The HS is playing Cersei
Jonathan Pryce isn’t there to play a benevolent kindly man 😉
Jesus, Brienne looks like shit.
Has it occurred to anyone that maybe Sansa finds out about LF having betrayed Ned, from the Boltons maybe letting it slip? I imagine they’d nonchalantly just mention it like it’s no big deal or assuming that she already knows, it would be a perfect set up for her to begin actively plotting against him
Lord of the Waters,
Stannis deserves to be brought to justice for what he did to his sweet innocent baby brother, and I hope Brienne kills him for his evil kinslaying ways.
#AvengeRenly2015
Cold Feet,
There is little doubt that Sansa will be the one to kill Littlefinger. He is a great manipulator in the game. He does this because he has no attachments to blind him. They keep showing him trying to kiss her, which means he is attached to her and blinded.
Renly deserved to die in the eyes of the gods. Stannis was just doing the gods work.
One of Roose Bolton’s leeches,
Thanks Leech Man I could see that. Actually now that you mention it the ones who blocked Tommen seemed a lot more what I was looking for …..I also wonder if he is OK with that scene I would assume not but would just kindly say…every man will be judged accordingly or whatever
Cold Feet,
How would the Boltons know that?
Brienne’s revenge may not be on Stannis (too obvious) but on his tool. Brienne does realize that supernatural forces were at work during Renly’s assassination. Perhaps Mel will actually be her target? Will Mel be able to defend herself (a la Cressen) against a surprise Brienne attack? Probably…but there is the Pod factor to consider.
Then again, if Stannis is Brienne’s target and she does get access to him, will Mel be there to protect him? Then again..the Pod factor is there…
Mel going south may be protective rather than offensive.
The Bastard,
Wow, WOW! You know what, buddy.. !? WOW!
Why couldn’t all the Stannis fanboys go up in flames at the Blackwater? If not Brienne, then Papa Roose will finish the job.
I knew Arya wouldn’t be in this episode. Probably won’t be in episode 9 too.
So that would lead to Arya being missing from four out of ten episodes this season. Wow……
Well, it’s not like people give a crap. But it’s still tragic to see horrible treatment of my favorite character.
Parker Peter,
She’s really wasted on this fanbase. People act like her fans are the most entitled ones of the series, but D&D have chopped up her character to bits. What happened to Weasel Soup and Acorn Hall? Anyway, Arya fans have good reason to worry. Her 6 episodes last season and her 6 episodes this season terrify me. And the ones who bitch about those who worry for the character’s relevance to the show are even worse. Especially those two trolls who like to scour through the comments on this site.
Or that he is trying to attract and blind her.
days,
Im pretty sure shes going to get good screen time this season.
Hers isn’t really a story I’d imagine will be cut and placed in small bits throughout.
I’d imagine whatever episodes shes in will be fairly substantial in length. She actually had more screen time than Sansa in the first four episodes.
Jaime’sHand1220,
Whenever you have a group that is sanctioned to commit violent acts and is not particularly stringent in its entrance requirements, it doesn’t take very long at all for that group to fill up with people who just enjoy violence for its own sake. Once it becomes known that the city guard is willing to look the other way when the Sparrows crack skulls, what do you expect to have happen? Of course the Sparrows are going to become a beacon for sadists, loonies, and other people who just wanna crack some skulls! It has always been that way.
Whether and to what extent the High Sparrow might approve of what happened in that brothel, though, is hard to say. I certainly hope not, but we don’t really know him very well yet.
HelloThere,
She will appear in that one, but watch the appearance have no substance whatsoever. D&D simply do not give any more shits about the character, regardless of what they’ve said.
Also, episode appearances matter. Screentime, not as much. She’s almost at minor-character status (if she isn’t considered one already.)
days,
screentime is everything
Meanwhile, D&D will trip over themselves to give screen time to their crush Sophie Turner.
Fanatics are crazy.
Pigeon,
Arya has more screen time so far than Sansa, by 2 minutes.
Pigeon,
Honestly, their obsession with her and Sansa is gross and really obvious. They’ll probably have a disgusting scene coming in the next few episodes, making everything even creepier.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Says the obnoxious Tyrion fan with the stupid name.
And Sansa will be featured in the next episode heavily, which will have 0 Arya time. What is your point? If you don’t give a shit about Arya and are annoyed by Arya discussions, step back and find something else.
What if Stannis saves Brienne then she is all conflicted about wanting to revenge kill him? I imagine they will meet at some point.
Renly’s Peach,
Renly is not right.
Pigeon,
u do realize they spent the first 3 seasons keeping sansa a pawn w/ very little development….
days,
I am a fan of Arya too. You give Arya fans a bad name with your paranoia. Would you have been happy for D&D to have Arya take Jeyne’s place in the Winterfell story? She’d be in more episodes.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
“I am a fan of Arya too.”
l m a o that is hilarious, go on. Tell me another joke.
Renly’s Peach,
Yet Stannis was his bigger brother,true Baratheon heir and true heir to the Iron Throne.Renly is a traitor and a usurper for going against his bigger brother.And people seem to forget that Renly would have killed Stannis and all his men.True Baratheon loyalists.How innocent and noble of him.Even without Mel,when Renly would have been captured he would have been executed.
Arya’s storyline is by far the one improved the most on the show from the books if you ask me. She has a huge amount of chapters in the books (around as much as Tyrion infact) yet there is tons of filler in them. A great many criticize books 4 and 5 for the filler they have. What you don’t hear as often, but is true is that a lot of Arya’s book 2 and book 3 storyline is filler. They consolidated her story in terrific fashion in seasons 2 and 3 and while they stretched it out in season 4, she and the Hound were a great pair (if anything the two of them being together for so little time post Red Wedding was a flaw in the books too). Other aspects of her storyline, such as her conversations with Tywin or her Jaqen deaths (which were wasteful and foolish in the books) were big improvements. Moving her first intentional kill to post Red Wedding was a big improvement. They have vastly improved upon her storyline in the show to this point and I have no doubt that they will continue to do so.
Of course! And she was very good at it.
There’s still time for her to win me over. I just am not part of the Sansa love fest, and am even more sure that nothing terrible is going to happen to HER. I think people’s worries are being deliberately misguided there. Which is also good, as I certainly do not wish her harm. I just would prefer more time on other stories. Can’t win them all! 🙂
Quiddity,
Where is Weasel Soup? Where is Acorn Hall? Where are Arya’s interactions with the smallfolk, and Arya trying hard to survive on the road?
They haven’t improved anything. They gave her substantial kill to Jaqen. They screwed up her “how many how many how many” scene. They used her to buffer up Tywin’s character, and the Hound (who got more development than Arya in season 4.)
And if you think her material is filler, you are probably one of those readers who only considers storylines revolving around the throne to be non-filler. Ugh.
Here is how much D&D think of Arya. Out of the three Stark kids(excluding Rickon), she is the only one who is having her story from AFFC/ADWD shown on screen. This, after getting the season closing scene in season 4. Use your brains, people.
days,
What? So if she’s, say, fourth in screentime for an entire season, she’s still considered a minor character if it’s only spread across 5 episodes?
She’s had the fourth highest screentime of all the characters across all the seasons.
Arya is quite possibly my #1 favorite character of the entire show, and I am perfectly fine with her possibly getting a bit sidelined this season during her Braavosi adventure. Not that there’s not any good material there, but I would much rather the meatier storylines get the proper amount of screentime (The Wall! Winterfell!) than shoehorning in Arya training scenes. Screentime is already limited. Jon, Sansa, Cersei, and Dany need all they can get this season.
But I think this may be my favorite season for character screentime/pacing. I kind of love that, more and more, they’re not afraid to sit fan-favorites out for one or even two episodes. It makes the episodes feel lengthier and better paced. And I don’t know how they’ve done it, but I feel like every major character has already gotten a good chunk of screentime. It somehow even feels like the smaller and minor characters that are usually sidelined have all gotten time to shine (Stannis, Shireen, Mance, Qyburn, Varys, Barristan, Tommen, Brienne, Littlefinger, etc.)
Now I just need more Tormund, Theon, and Doran screentime, and I’ll be content!
Tyrion Pimpslap,
So they couldn’t care enough to expand on her material with some original scenes. Your point?
Oh but wait! She had the last scene in season 4. You have completely convinced me.
days,
Arya’s storyline in the books is very much its own story. Its a personal journey… But when you are adapting an overarching plot into a limited space, you can only keep in so much that doesn’t service the main plot.
But u don’t seem like ur ready to listen to rational thought, so I’ll leave it at that 🙂
Brendon,
So Arya’s screentime should be cut in behalf of Cersei and Sansa is what you’re saying? lol ok. I can understand Dany, Tyrion, and Jon, but Arya was right behind them in book appearances. She is the only character to show up in each book. But Cersei and Sansa are more deserving of appearances. Okay.
Also, they wouldn’t have to shoehorn any training scenes. They could easily come up with original material. GRRM said he could have written a whole book about Arya in Braavos.
We’re not talking about “one or even two episodes” here. But people seem to want to infantilize Arya fans for having legitimate fears, although it was perfectly fine for fans of Stannis and Sansa to complain before.
HelloThere,
“The main plot”? ASOIAF is about a bunch of different plotlines. Not just one “main” plot. But whatever.
I reckon brienne will kill stannis and melisandre will resurrect him using shireen
days,
U do have a right to complain.
And we have a right to rationalize why the show does what it does
Also, are you questioning Cersei getting screentime?
Really?
This is literally the season of Cersei. By all accounts, she should be the closest thing to a main character since Ned Stark in season 1.
i also reckon aemon dies this episode
days,
She is my third favorite character. Her story suffered with the split of ASOS into two seasons. So did Stannis and Jon’s. But Maisie and Rory made it work. What would be an acceptable amount of screen time for her? You say the amount of episodes counts more, so you would be fine with her appearing in 8 episodes instead of 6, but with 5 fewer minutes of total screen time? Weasel Soup is probably one of the two or three scenes that were cut that I miss the most, but Acorn Hall, really? Even you have to admit that is nitpicking.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
God, this joke is almost as good as the last.
HelloThere,
Like Cersei hasn’t had a shit-ton of episode appearances in the past. Every season is Cersei’s season, it seems.
Ser Gerold Dayne,
Nah man Renly was gonna win. He had the much bigger army, but ol’ teeth grinder traitor man had to go and cheat. Kill his own brother the night before battle, while a truce was in effect. Very honorable.
Stannis isn’t fit to rule. Renly was the best king. Azor Ahai reborn and taken from us! Damn shame, now Westeros is doomed.
days,
Okay then. If there was an ignore feature you would be on it. Thanks for wasting my time, Mr/Ms Angry.
You sir make a fine point….I guess I just don’t dig it all that much yet
Arya is by far one of my favorite characters, both in the book and in the show. I find Maise Williams amazing. It’s obvious the show-runners do, too, since (as others have already said) she’s 4th in total screentime. They built two new sets, one in Croatia for the the exterior shots of THoBaW and the interior set in Belfast (I believe) just for her story. I would rather not have to go a couple of weeks without seeing her, but I believe she will have plenty of time in the episodes she’s in, and her story will be well-told. I’ve noticed they seem to be spending longer in each place with the scenes, this season. Instead of having a bunch of shorter scenes jumping from place to place, they seem to be having much longer scenes in one location, so while they could have cut up her scenes and interspersed them throughout the season, I won’t mind having her scenes be longer, but have her in fewer episodes.
As far as Stannis and/or Shireen being in danger, can’t Selyse and Melisandre die instead?
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Some people are allergic to logic and reason
Well 3 of my top 5 favourite characters are not aven in the show at all.What should I do,cry?I’m not even mad,I just enjoy all the rest.
But with all the respect for Arya fans,complaining about her screentime seems a little bit off for me.Complain about scenes,that it’s ok.But screentime?She has allot,she is right there in the top.
Congratulations Arya fanatics! You have now taken the throne for the the most annoying fans.
Ya’ll make my Stannis fan base look great.
Second place goes for LS fans, but it seems they are finally going back to wherever they came from and doing what their favorite character does best, keeping that mouth shut and not saying shit.
Third place goes to the Greyjoy fans because their losers. 🙂
Stannis the mannis club, we’re winning. Ours is the Fury!
days,
Erm, not sure why you’re jumping down my throat. As I said, I am a huge Arya fan. As she’s fourth in total screentime, I’m sure she will get a decent amount this season. But the truth is, characters like Jon, Dany, and Cersei, (and I think Sansa now) have a TON of material to get through this season, while Arya really doesn’t. Yes, they could invent stuff. But I am perfectly happy with Arya getting a bit less this year if it means that the huge, central arcs in this season get the proper amount of time and attention.
And man, you must have been feeling bitter when you read the books. In Feast and Crows, Cersei got 12 chapters and Arya 5….
And I never ‘infantilized’ anyone that wanted more Arya screentime, or said that you shouldn’t be complaining. I, too, hope that Arya gets a good amount of time this season. I was just expressing why I would be okay with her only appearing in 5-7 episodes this year. I was never antagonistic or unreasonable….
Ser Gerold Dayne,
Are your three favorites as “big” of a character as Arya though?
I miss the off-season, when the comments sections on this website were filled with reasonable speculation and rational discussion, with less hyperbolic ad hominem attacks 🙁
Jaime’sHand1220,
I think Pryce’s calm demeanor and seeming genuine pleasantness masks his own fanaticism. Someone doesn’t have to be overtly frothing at the mouth to be a fanatic, and I think his line, “Hypocrisy is a boil. Lancing a boil is never pleasant” says it all. It tells me he views those who claim to follow the 7, but act in ways contrary to the mandates of that religion, as something which needs to be eliminated, and the imagery in that line tells me he has no qualms getting violent about it.
Oh, what a lovely world it would be!
days,
Well,one would be YG.Quite important since he is in Westeros and possible the next to sit on the Throne.But we will see about that in WOW.My top 2 characters are in the show,one of them is Stannis.Important but he is not in the top of screentime.
Anyway I don’t want to get to deep into an Arya talk,she is not even top 20 character for me.I just wanted to say that for someone from the outside,that doesn’t love or hate Arya,she seems to have plenty of screentime.That was all my point,how I see it without being subjective.
I agree, though I think the watershed was not “off-season” vs “season” but the switch from mostly following the books in S1-S4 to strongly deviating from them in S5. This creates a rift in the fan base that did not exist before to any large extent.
YG is a tertiary character whereas Arya is the #4 protagonist. Basically, only Daeny, Jon & Tyrion are bigger characters than Arya; characters bigger than YG include all of the other protagonists (I think that there are 9 of them!) and most of the secondary characters (a googleplex or two).
(And there is no “for me”: there is only what is in the books or on the TV show; GRRM & B+W have made that the same for everyone.)
I have a feeling Roose will be a buffer between her and Ramsey and perhaps protect her and make me like him a little.
Shireen =
What I don’t understand is why Catelyn’s
is an abomination to storytelling, but speculation about Jon’s
isn’t.
I didn’t compared YG with Arya,it was just an example of character that we don’t have in the show.I said that my favourite two characters are both in the show and one of them is Stannis.The other has more screentime than Arya.
Pigeon,
I’d settle for just Selyse, for now.
Hopefully, it will come to pass Arya meets Melisandre, again, as Melisandre predicted, then Arya can kill her.
Oh, btw, just in case anyone forgot, or for those who weren’t around when I was making this proclamation:
You think you’ve seen a meltdown??? You ain’t seen nothin’ compared to the meltdown I will have if this season comes and goes and we don’t even get a single sighting of…
SER FUCKING POUNCE!!!
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
True, Melisandre could be useful for some things and stuff for awhile yet…
OMG, that arya fan is crazy. Anyone who doesn’t agree with him he just… The manners don’t matter, the tone doesn’t matter, the only thing matters is whether people completely agree with him or not. CUTE.
This rift essentially existed already for one very simple reason: a lot of us thought that GRRM wrote an absolute turkey with Crows. If you have been a fan for any length of time, then you are well aware that the biggest debate that book set off was not “Is X really Y?” or “Will Z be important in the end?”, but instead “Which festering boil of a plotline was worse, Dorne or the Iron Islands?” or “Which attempt at a new protagonist flopped more, Arianne or Victarion” and, of course, “Has GRRM gone the way of Robert Jordan?”
Now, some things have to change when to move a story from page to screen because of the difference in the media. But in other cases they have to change because the original material is simply bad. Almost everything that they are changing is the stuff from Crows that simply is bad storytelling. (Hell, I couldn’t even figure out what the story was supposed to be until I read Dragons.) Indeed, it created a lot of ex-fans!
At any rate, there is no way that they could have gotten away with the storyless meandering of Crows with this audience. B&W correctly recognized that they had to focus on the story of “kill the boy (or girl), become the man (or woman)” and properly take advantage of the copious prior development of the main characters. Yes, I know that some fans liked Crows: but sticking to it would kill the show as well as many of us thought it had killed the book series.
Well, he really cannot be on the show yet: he simply was not relevant enough to the story or plot of Crows/Dragons to merit screentime without greatly expanding what GRRM wrote.
Arya, on the other hand, is one of the characters creating the story. Her evolution in this tale feeds the story as strongly as Jon’s or Daeny’s does.
So, I know Internet comments are known to be horrible. But there are some good ones out there. Why don’t we at least trying to be non-assholes? There are plenty of good discussions to be had about the show, but it’s pretty impossible here. Everyone just yells at each other.
I could not handle anything horrible happening to Shireen. I will not forgive D&D if that happens. I can handle horror, but that would be just too much.
Edit: Free Folk, not “Free Fold”.
Wimsey, who make your list of 9?
Why are people so sure Arya will not be in episode 5?
Fat Wall-duh,
This!!! This so much. I’ve read so many comments bashing
Now I’m ok if it doesn’t happen that she comes back but I also hope that after FTW he either survives or is dead for good and the fans speculations are just that.
Thanks and please D&D
days,
They didn’t screw up anything. That scene with Arya and the Hound in the tavern is one of the best original scenes the show has done. They took the basic idea from the books and made it so much better.
Josla,
Will Sansa’s hair be red again this season? There isn’t really a point in dying it anymore
Also, looks like there won’t be any King’s Landing here.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
It just occurred to me how much of a fookin loop I’d be thrown for,
….. O_o
Pigeon,
That’s horrifying.
I think Brienne’s storyline is being set up to present her with a moment where she has to choose between protecting Sansa or avenging Renly by going after Stannis, with the implication that doing one will mean she’ll never have the chance to do the other.
I also think that Selyse is going to make an attempt (or succeed) at sacrificing Shireen (King’s blood…) on Melisandre’s behalf. I don’t think Mel actually wants her to succeed, but she may be setting Selyse up in order to get her out of the picture.
As for the current “debate”, episode counts and screen time don’t matter as much to me as how each character’s storyline is adapted. Arya’s storyline so far this season has been handled incredibly well, establishing her new location and her mindset as she moves through the necessary plot points.
Episode 2 had her arriving and earning her way into the HoBaW, setting up her storyline. She has one of the most prominent roles in Episode 3, covering the first phase of her training and highlighting the scene where she chooses to keep Needle (and her identity), which is the key to her central conflict this season: Is Arya willing to give up who she is in order to obtain the vengeance she seeks? The writers and the actors absolutely nail these scenes and I would rather have all of her Episode 3 scenes lumped together than spread out over multiple episodes. I wouldn’t mind if this was the pattern for the rest of the season, fewer episodes, but a larger share of each episode.
This is a massive ensemble cast and I see no evidence that D&D hate or love any characters more than the story dictates. They’ve always maintained that Arya is one of their favorite characters, so this “debate” really makes no sense to me, but I suppose “super-fans” of any one character never did.
Ironically, a lot of fans used to argue that each episode should focus on less storylines, and that characters should miss more episodes, instead of featuring every storyline in every episode.
Now that they’re doing exactly that, people are saying that it’s a shame Arya isn’t featured in more episodes.
Come on….
Tyrion Pimpslap,
*rocking in the corner*
Pigeon,
No need to fear, D&D could never even imagine doing something that unpredictable.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately. I think it’s possible, but still unlikely.
jentario,
days,
Mercy should be in episode 9, I think.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
C’mon, Pimpslap, don’t feed him.
Anyone heard about this? I thought it was a little interesting and I kind of have to agree with her.
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/game-thrones-books-editor-slams-hbo-series-article-1.2214393
Maceless Fan,
Ha
Would this be the one of the some people who should have urged GRRM to trim the fat off AFFC & ADOD and encouraged George to get the story moving???
No Sympathies!
I am not bashing George, I still enjoyed the immersion into his beautifully realised world of ASOFAI … But things Stagnated in those last 2 books (my opinion only)
Martin has editors?
afartherroom,
Distracted ones apparently. 😉
Greenjones,
To be honest, editors probably have no influence on Martin nowadays as he’s too big a name. They can only hope he listens to them, but are little more than glorified proofreaders. Very rich proofreaders, that is. As someone who’s worked in an editing capacity for a book publisher, I imagine they get a percentage of sales. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ann Groell made hundreds of thousands of bucks on Martin’s books, and that’s not counting her fixed salary.
Nymeria,
Ser pounce isn’t in that season Dean-Charles Chapman said so at the San Fran premiere!
Maceless Fan,
Barristan Selmy dying and Loras being too gay IMO aren’t catastrophic divergences….
But of course Elio and Linda had to jump in and join in on her twitter discussion
I do think an interesting question is what is most important to sullied viewers- screen time, number of episodes, adaptation quality, etc.
Personally I would rather jump around less and see solid 10 minute blocks of good quality material where things can build and have my favorite character miss an episode. This happens to Jaime quite a lot, depsite NCW being in the top billing of the show, and a POV character in ASOIAF, and the cutest 😉 he is still excluded from many episodes and I’m completely ok with that. It’s unavoidable in this show. There are many storylines to be woven. I’d rather see some stories get a solid chunk of time each episode and others in another episode. Superfans of any character (Arya, Stannis) may complain but um… Jaime’s entire storyline was chucked and he has a whole new one. Is that weird for me, yes! Am I still excited to see what happens in Dorne and how they might show his personal progression in a different environment? Yes!
Does anyone have a link to where we can see screentime totals per season or episode? Tyrion Pimpslap says Arya has 2 mins more than Sansa so far, I think the numbers will tell a lot (rather than feeling like X is getting cut and time given to Y). I keep finding stuff from 2013, does anyone have an updated link?
As for stuff at the wall, are you sure we’re not jumping to conclusions based on Carice’s interview? Let’s wait and see, I think we will know more after episode 5- who is staying/going, if there is a big Jon/Mel scene, etc.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I agree with your point about a certain bullet not being fired too often. I remember in AFFC/ADWD
palled a little. I wondered just how often that plot device would be used.
Now (and this is NOT addressed to you Mr/Ms Pimpslap) I do wish posters would “play nice”. There is nothing wrong with having a favourite character or characters in the show. However I heard somewhere (if I remember I’ll come back and say where) that the show-runners were trying to have longer scenes to develop parts of the story rather than having loads of little scenes. That might be why there is more of, say, Sansa one week and more of Arya another week. I accept that the story is so complex that some characters may not appear in every single episode. If Lulu’s Mum reads this I wonder if she remembers a British TV kids’ show called “Andy Pandy”. There were only three characters, a boy doll, Andy Pandy, a girl doll, Looby-Loo and a teddy bear, Teddy. Now I hated Looby-Loo, was indifferent to Andy Pandy but I loved Teddy. Before we had a TV it was a childhood treat to go to one of my Mum’s friends house to watch “Andy Pandy” and apparently I used to carry on alarming if Teddy didn’t feature in the programme. However that was when I was 3 or 4. Now that I’m an adult I don’t get my undies in a knot if a character I like doesn’t appear in the odd episode of a show.
Arya is so overrated. It’s all anger and surface with her and I’m happy to see her sidelined this season (how do you think Bran fans feel?). I’m much more interested in seeing Melisandre’s role expand, she is so complex and undefined. I love it. I love Carice’s interpretation of the role. Other actresses would play it like a cartoon. Carice keeps me on the edge of my seat thinking, “What will she do next? I can’t believe she did that!” Carice has triumphed in this role – on twitter her character is either adored or hated but nobody is ever indifferent to her. That is the key.
I won’t cry about it. She was predestined for the fate. Let’s give Melisandre a LITTLE credit here. She’s never been afraid to get her hands dirty in her mission to save the world. Shireen will be the lamb, and Melisandre will slaughter her respectfully when it comes to it.
While eavesdropping on merchants in Braavos, Arya hears about Jon being elected Lord Commander (It’s one of the things she can then report back to the Kindly Man). Jon sends Sam off at the end of season 5 to Braavos to ask the Iron Bank for a loan, (or to train at Oldtown, he just never gets there, either way).
Not long after Sam leaves, Jon ‘dies’.
Early in season 6, Arya overhears news that Lord Commander Jon Snow was killed by his fellow brothers, and is understandably distraught. Then Sam arrives in Braavos, still unaware that Jon is dead. Arya sees his cloak and assumes he is a deserter from the Wall and as such one of the traitors who killed Jon. She confronts him and he can’t answer her questions, because he didn’t even know Jon was dead. He tries to explain why he’s in Braavos, but she doesn’t believe him, calls him a coward and kills him as retribution for Jon.
Thus Sam ironically dies a perceived ‘coward’ despite his character development, and fans of Arya have to re-examine how they feel about her bad-assery and whether or not they’re okay with her having a ‘license to kill’.
Much more effective than Arya killing Dareon and, on the assumption that Oldtown is cut and largely irrelevant anyway, a shocking tragic end for Sam (what’s he going to be doing otherwise anyway).
Oh, Galli, if that happens I’ll have to have my handkerchiefs handy!! Though I will say some of that may be due to Kerry Ingram’s interpretation of the role; I find Ms Ingram very talented. I warmed more to show Shireen than book Shireen if I’m honest. Though I don’t usually wish ill on child characters (except Joffrey!!!!)
Agree. She will face the same dilemma that Jaime spoke of: forsaking one vow for another. I don’t think that she will kill Stannis. (That’s not his end.) I think that she will choose to fulfill her oath to Catelyn.
This! Decisions are made based on what will propel the story forward and not on some covert plan to undermine a particular character. Yes, it can be rough if a favorite character/actor isn’t getting a lot of screen time. This is an expansive story with a very large cast and choices must be made.
Darren,
That’s a really good point about Brienne potentially forsaking one vow for another, I think if that’s the case it’ll wrap her arc up nicely. Only minor gripe I’d have with her saving Sansa, is that Sansa needs saving once again. I suppose she really is in the Lion’s den, but I hope it plays out with Sansa having some say in the plan if they form an alliance.
We shall see what happens as the finale approaches, but I predict shit will hit the fan in Winterfell, it’s going to be messy.
I disagree that the divide you are speaking of is the divide we are seeing now. Yes, there was a manurestorm after AFFC was released, because a small (but very loud) minority of fans hated the book. They were (or are) very much the opposing equivalents of real purists like Linda Antonsson – equally ignorant and bullheaded. By no measure can AFFC be considered a bad book. While it was not as well received as the other four books, reviews were still solidly positive and it was nominated for a Hugo Award. Of the 15 books nominated for the Hugo between 2005-2007, only one – Old Man’s War – has higher ratings on Goodreads (His Majesty’s Dragon is a tie). I’ve personally read six of those other books, and none of them even remotely compares to AFFC. Not even close. I enjoyed them all, but that’s like saying I enjoyed the two glasses of 2014 five buck Malbec I just drank and pretending to forget the gifted ~$70 Zin that is staring back at me from my wine rack right now. Depth matters.
There are reasons that AFFC/ADWD were cut down to one season rather than two, but it has nothing to do with quality. It has to do with how the story spread out in a manner that is arguably unsuitable to TV adaptation. Prior to AFFC, both the book and the show had something like 8-10 POV’s running at once. It nearly doubled by early ADWD, and mass-audience TV just can’t handle this. We’d only be seeing Arya once a month if AFFC/ADWD were made into two seasons (assuming the scenes were shown chronologically rather than by region/character as in the books).
I figure I spend one hour a week watching each new episode and a second watching it on repeat. I probably spend another ten hours a week on fan sites like this. I’d MUCH rather have two hour episodes cramming in all sorts of cut plot lines and details, if I could get it. I have a hard time imagining a fan who wouldn’t, even if half of those extra hours were Sand Snake quality. Heck, I’d put up with 9.5 hours of Sand Snake just to get Manderley/Davos and the pies. But it is also obvious people like me make up a small minority of show watchers, and hence I am stuck with half a loaf. That’s better than nothing, for sure, but it is far from what I wish…or even had, before this season.
Did you really hate AFFC that much? Why do I suspect that if GRRM announced right now that he had secretly spent the last ten years writing AFFC Version II, where the entire story was retold from different POVs, and he was releasing it tonight midnight for free on his website, that you’d be calling in sick tomorrow and pecking “download” incessantly starting about 11:55 pm….just as I would.
Actually, I like that idea. I hope GRRM lives forever and does exactly that. The Quiet Isle from the Gravedigger’s POV? All Cersei’s machinations from various Tyrell POVs? Or Kevan’s? Or Tommen’s? A Euron POV? A High Sparrow POV? A Blackfish POV? A Littlefinger POV? A Kindly Man POV? And holy mother of all POVs -a POD POV. Try wrapping yourself around that monster!!! I’d watch a HUNDRED HOURS of Sand Snake for a POD POV.
In any case, the divide we see now is not a tiny handful of hateful ex-fans who were upset because AFFC didn’t contain any Tyrion chapters verses the overwhelming majority of fans who somewhere between liked and loved AFFC/ADWD. The “divide”, which is really more of a gradient, is between people who are less bothered by changes and inconsistencies and those who are more annoyed by them and are growing more and more disappointed as major elements of some of their favorite books are being outright discarded. While it is reasonable to argue that people that disliked AFFC/ADWD are more accepting to changes precisely because they didn’t like the books, those people were a much smaller minority than either “side” of the divided now.
Jaime’sHand1220,
The FM guy who went after the two men in the brothel with a knife certainly had bat shit crazy written all over him, but most of the others seemed quite calm and in control of what they were doing, which I personally find far more frightening. Most people can do crazy stuff if they are psyched up enough, but I tend to think those who can without breaking a sweat are potentially a lot more dangerous.
The science bit: I read an article about psychopaths which said that apart from having no empathy for other people, they don’t feel any fear for themselves either, which is why they are so potentially scary because they don’t have that “what if?” feeling to hold them back. I’m no psychiatrist but it strikes me that Ramsay and Joffrey, sadistic as they both are, did things to appease other people for fear of the consequences if they didn’t (such as not defying Roose or Tywin). A true psychopath would apparently not experience that at all and just do whatever they wanted to, which if they are violently inclined – and most aren’t – could easily end in a bloodbath. I imagine someone with an all consuming religious faith could behave similarly, if they genuinely believe they are protected by some higher force, they think they have nothing to fear. Although whether this applies to the High Sparrow (or Lancel) we haven’t seen enough yet to know.
I would really have no problem with Arya only being in 5-6-7 episodes this year, if the writers/producers treated other characters the same. I just think its ridiculous that a character with no chapters left (Sansa) is apparantely going to be in all 10 episodes this season. Why is she getting that much favouritism from the writers? They have clearly gone out of their way to try and give her as much to do as possible
Why cant they do the same for Arya or treat Sansa the same as Arya and have her in 5-6 episodes instead of pushing her into someone elses storyline? I just dont think its fair (im actually more annoyed at the fact that Sansa is taking over Theons story. Its not fair to the character). Arya missing out episodes doesnt annoy me. Other characters getting more focus just because the writers like them annoys me
Walter Harrow,
by the end of this season, im sure arya and sansa will have equal screentime/
Walter Harrow,
Sansa’s scenes are split among numerous major characters (Theon, LF, Roose, Ramsay) and hence she only is the center of attention for a fraction of the time her scenes take up. Arya, in contrast, dominates any scene she is in. If anything, Arya will have more actual time on screen this season. It will just come in a few big blocks, rather than spread thin like Sansa.
Melisandre burns people alive. She’s evil incarnate.
Delicious, delicious evil.
For this season,
the #1 most important character is Cersei,
after that is Jon and Dany,
and they will have the most screentime.
I wonder if this arya fans who cry about sansa being d&d’s favourite are the same people who bitched and moaned for years how d&d hate sansa and clearly don’t “get” the character. Just asking
HelloThere,
It doesn’t feel so though. Cercei has certainly the climax of her arc in this season but her climax is a negative, a downfall whereas with Jon and Dany we have a take off. So far it seems that the most important character is Jon followed by Sansa who as Chad Brick rightly points out brings together 3-4 other arcs.
dothrakian raven,
Whether or not its a downfall, I believe the season is grounded in her storyline.
Its why the season kicked off w/ her flashback.
HelloThere,
I agree with your importance assessment, but i bet Tyrion will get most screentime as usually. I think its a mistake, he simply dont have such good storyline like others you mentioned, but it will still happen.
HelloThere,
The Cercei-flashback in the beginning of the season is not meant to underline the importance of Cerceis arc but to better explain her downfall, I think.
dothrakian raven,
In the “Inside the episode” they mentioned how they thought starting off the season w/ Cersei’s flashback was important because its a big season for the character.
Then in another interview, they called this season a “powerhouse” season for the character.
I don’t know, I just feel like the main storylines this season are Cersei, Jon, and Dany, and a particular emphasis on Cersei.
HelloThere,
I do not deny that Cercei’s arc is important and that the whole construction of this arc leads to an amazing season for Cercei I just think that her arc is not the very centre of the attention of the game.
dothrakian raven,
I think Cersei, Dany, and Jon together construct the center of this season in a way 🙂
The three main characters who are in major positions of power
Major plotlines:
– Undead ice zombies
– political battle for the throne
– Dany army and dragons
NOT major plotlines:
– Sweeping floors
– Learning to be a an unreal face changing superkiller only to kill one kingsguard
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Yea I guess I prefer the non foaming of the mouth…i guess I just felt it would be more frightening if he didn’t look batshit crazy and was calmly handing out ” justice .”
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Yea I guess I prefer the non foaming of the mouth…i guess I just felt it would be more frightening if he didn’t look batshit crazy and was calmly handing out ” justice .” maybe I’m alone in that…
Lulu’s Mum,
Great explanation.. I agree
Squirrel,
“cry” “bitch” “moan”
Wow, you sure are classy. I bet your favorite character is Stannis the Mannis amirite?
And the same ones who said D&D hated Stannis and didn’t get his character… and the same ones who said D&D hated Jaime and didn’t get his character (because they made him an evil cousin-killer), etc., etc…ad infinitum
Instead of realizing that changes are made to adapt and streamline the story, there are always a few whiners who think it’s because D&D “hate” certain characters, or “love” other characters, or “just don’t get” a character, or whatever the flavour of the week is…
For me, it’s just secondary entertainment. First I get to enjoy the show, and then I get have a few laughs when some people go overboard taking everything too seriously.
We also have no idea what Sansa’s future is beyond the latest Alayne chapter that was recently released. And we need someone to care about in the north, aside from slight affection for Fat Walda and cute-old-lady-hand-maiden. We do know however what Arya is up to with the FM and then to her latest Mercy chapter. I love both of these characters and see no problems. D&D need to slice’n’dice to make a coherent storyline that frames Fire vs. Ice during a time of magical revival. Done.
Jaime’sHand1220,
Well thank you and welcome *waves* you said you were a new poster. I lurked on here for aaaages before starting to join in – you just have take a deep breathe and go for it! :O)
m.e,
Nope. You’re wrong.
Shaz,
Perhaps “save” / “rescue” was a poor choice of words and “assist” would have been better.
I expect Sansa’s storyline to be very similar to Spike’s “Yoko Factor” plan from Season 4 of Buffy, in that she’ll subtly exploit the existing faultlines in the relationships amongst the Boltons to turn them against one another.
The Ep. 5 clip that leaked showed Sansa taking note of how
How much of a push would it take from Sansa to get Ramsay to take action against Walda or Roose in that situation and make him think it was his idea all along?
She can exploit Myranda’s insecurity in her relationship with Ramsay the same way (get Myranda to lash out at Sansa to provoke a response from Ramsay, for example).
She has one potential resource in Reek if she can turn him and she has Stark loyalists that can help out in small ways, but she’s not Rambo waging a one-woman war against an army, so it’s likely she’ll need a little muscle from time to time, which may be where Brienne comes in. The tricky thing about that is Brienne isn’t exactly subtle or an effective spy, so covert help will be nearly impossible (plus Roose knows her) and she might not be able to help Sansa until after her schemes blow up (this type of scheme is rarely effective in the long-term) late in the season.
Darren,
Probably not the smartest idea to openly smirk at Ramsay getting one-upped, but as he didn’t seem to notice, I’m assuming that was merely for the viewer’s sake.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Interesting.
EDIT: Actually, she might not be referring to a scene between Jon and Mel. Just to a “bigger” scene.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Pigeon,
Heh, yeah, that’s true. It seems neither Stark sister is ready for the game of faces yet. lol
ZING!!!!!!!!! 😀
jentario,
I think
I know what was said, but I just don’t believe it. I already had to except the absence of Lady Whiskers, and now they expect fans to accept no Ser Pounce? They must just hate cats. ASOIAF is not ASOIAF without Ser Pounce. It ruins the legacy of the story!!!
(And, Wimsey, don’t you dare chime in with how Ser Pounce is just a tertiary character!!!;) )
Jaime’sHand1220,
I absolutely get what you’re saying, and I think Pyrce, at least, is doing just that. As for his “army,” I think I was just so upset by what was happening, I wasn’t thinking about anything other than how frighteningly closely that scene parallels potential (and in some places actual) reality. Having grown up in the Bible Belt, I can easily imagine some of the people I ran across behaving exactly that way if somehow they were armed and sanctioned. Yes, cold and calculating probably would have been even more chilling, but I was so disturbed as it was, my mind didn’t even go there. I just wanted the scene to be over (which, for me, means it was effective).
Ugh…I just realized I typed “except” instead of “accept.” *hiding face in shame*
jentario,
She clearly refers to a future bigger scene between her and Jon.First we have seduction scene and then she mentioned even bigger scene in the same context which is Jon/Mel relationship.Carice even explained how her mom really likes Kit/Jon and twitter reaction to that seduction scene.
jentario,
I’m really curious to see what tactics Sansa will take with Ramsay and what the tone will be. I am desperately looking forward to seeing Theon/Reek and Sansa interact- I think if we can get a scene with them we can get a feel for the direction this storyline will go, if Theon will help her, what his mental capabilities are, if/how badly Sansa has underestimated Ramsay’s cruelty, and what can be done to manage the situation.
I do think Theon will get his moments though, even though Sansa is pushing in on his story, it also gives him someone of significance to play off (since Lady Barbrey isn’t cast) and may actually serve his story. D&D and Cogman have all said how much they liked Theon and Alfie Allen has been superb so I doubt they will cut his storyline more than the usual adaptation trimming.
Galli,
I’m sure having someone “respectfully” kill you is of little comfort to the person being slaughtered. And as for it being to the benefit of millions of other little girls, that doesn’t make it right. The road to the 7 Hells is paved with good intentions. I still don’t like Melisandre and how she thinks she can burn innocents for religious purposes. It’s evil, plain and simple.
Geralt of Rivia,
I think you are inferring a bit too much. The “even bigger scene” Carice refers to could be completely out of context of their previous discussion. All we know about it is that it’s big, it features Carice and that she’s even more excited about our reaction to it than to the episode 4 scene.
Lulu’s Mum,
Re: psychopaths, I don’t believe the “lack of fear” is something common to them all. It is probably common to all “disorganized psychopaths” and Ramsay is definitely an “organized” type, being able to control himself when he wants to. Joffrey was somewhere in the middle of the two types and deteriorating toward full on disorganized. That all being said, a lack of fear does not mean they won’t try to hide or put a veneer of respectability over what they are doing. It’s not fear, it’s just logical self-preservation that every human engages in. So saying that Joff and Ramsay try to seem respectable and/or hide what they do on occasion doesn’t mean they are fearful, it just means they are still rational.
Well, someone missed their nap.
Lulu’s Mum,
Aha I’m finding myself to MANly to say “waves back” but I’m waving…aha yea I’m reading the books so I don’t always have the best insight…
Dame Pasty,
Yea I’m not toworried about the finer points of the psycho I just found that scene a bit off…did you at all?
In a new article on Zap2It, Alfie Allen says:
Lord of the Waters,
Renly’s claim for king was wrong. It’s too bad that he got killed by a shadow baby but all is fair in love and war. Brienne’s quest to kill Stannis over Stannis being unwilling to take Reny’s attempt to steal the kingdom from him sitting down is garbage. I don’t see Brienne living if she goes toe-to-toe w/ Melisandre.
Pigeon,
Hmm, did Alfie just spoil what happens in the upcoming battle, or is he deliberately trolling?
I can see him trolling….but it’s interesting nonetheless! 🙂
You mean incidental character? xD
I can’t believe people actually want to see Arya train for ten episodes this season. Yes, she is an amazing character (one of if not my favorite) but her arc this season is rather thin. It’s best that they spread it out and keep it in the high quality of what we’ve seen so far than they force her into more and more episodes with scenes that make no sense.
The fact that she appears in less episodes doesn’t mean she’s sidelined- and if that’s what you think is happening, shift your complaint toward George Martin for giving her all of three chapters in AFFC.
The only one being sidelined is Bran.
Any scene of Melisandre abandoning Stannis will be devastating. She has been everything to Team Dragonstone, their heart and soul. It will be a selfless arc for Mel if she feels compelled to return for Jon’s sake.
Walter Harrow,
Well, to be fair, a lot of Sansa’s scenes are filled with Littlefinger, Theon, Roose, Ramsay, etc. While Arya’s scenes have Jaqen in them, but are still only about her.
In addition to this, it’s clear to me from GRRM’s Sansa chapter that a lot of Sansa’s plot points/character development from Winds of Winter are being pushed into this season, hence the bump in screentime.
Psychopathy isn’t a yes/no situation in terms of fear. It is a key element of psychopathy that they exhibit boldness and have reduced inhibitions, but there’s degrees. It’s not a necessary requirement that they have no fear or inhibitions. Both Joffrey and Ramsay also display the reduced amount of empathy and predilection for cruelty and sadism.
That’s the little I know — someone else would have say if the levels of inhibition they show around select people is enough that they would not be classified as such. I suspect not.
This is not George’s US editor — it’s his UK editor. It’s pretty clear from previous comments from her that she doesn’t work with George on a true editorial level — Anne Groel is his US editor. I imagine his UK editor is more around decisions related to the UK issue, which at this point is more about “Do we split it into two books or one” and “when will you have it done? I want to forecast the sales.”
Alan,
Yeah she’s pretty unimportant since Martin does his real editing with his US editor, and obviously her input doesn’t mean jack to Benioff and Weiss. It seems like attention-seeking behavior that I didn’t find that interesting.
Dame Pasty,
I am absolutely not an expert on the subject at all, just recently saw a very in-depth article (and accompanying documentary now I think about it) about psychopathic behaviour which is what I based my comments on, so I could be waaaaay off and please do correct me if you know anything about it. Dr Lulu’s Mum is not remotely qualified in this field. One of things that stuck in my mind was the lack of fear er…thingy (not sure what the correct term is?) which I thought was a really interesting possible explanation for some of the bat shit crazyness we see in the show. They do seem to have more than their fair share of it! :O(
EDIT: Sorry Alan, just saw your reply. I realise reading my post back I’d forgotten to include the spectrum thing, that people are on a sliding scale of the various attributes. That’s what you get for posting in a rush :O(
So in conclusion, people do all kinds of stuff for all kinds of reasons and are very complicated. They should do a cross-over with Criminal Minds and just go around explaining what the hell everyone is doing and why (that is a joke by the way). I’ll just shut up now.
Okay I lied, I’m still talking about it but ran out of editing time. [Cue everyone saying should have just deleted your post and started from scratch, dumbo.] So, missed out a crucial fact in my original post that psychopathic behaviour is on a spectrum, so some psychopathic people have a total lack of fear and others experience it just like – or more than – everyone else, while the rest are somewhere in between. I doubt anyone really cares but I like to at least try and get my facts straight and correct my own errors. Anyone familiar with the UK Guardian newspaper will not be remotely surprised to learn I am a one of their readers (and that is where I saw the article). Promise I’m letting it go now!
I’m a very visual person and much prefer to see something rather than read it, so gave up on the 3 inch thick paper versions fairly quickly. I pick up all my book info from other people’s posts – the combined knowledge and insight are like having THE best reference library imaginable and some of them are really funny and/or good on other interesting stuff to boot :O)
Another thought about the impending Brienne/Stannis conflict (there HAS to be one, right? RIGHT?). I am also wondering if they will give Brienne part of the Asha/Yara storyline?
I just want Brienne and Stannis to hug and make up (even though Stannis has NO idea who the fuck Brienne is 😉
Pigeon,
He’s quoting Loras.
NoSer,
I think you lost me there….
Pigeon,
“A force to be reckoned with.. he was .. truly.. a force to be reckoned with”
..
there…
I’ll see myself out.
NoSer,
Ah! (takes me awhile)…