Nikolaj Coster Waldau on Game of Thrones Season 8: “We’ve gone all in”

Filming on the eighth season of Game of Thrones is wrapping up, and reports are trickling in on actors who have finished their shoots. Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is one of them – he has filmed his last scene as Jaime Lannister. In a new interview with Variety, he shares his feelings about the final season, and what it’s like to say goodbye.

When asked if he knows how the series ends, Coster-Waldau admits he does and had “such a mixture of feelings” about it when he read the script. “I was excited. I thought that Dan Weiss and David Benioff – the creators – they just couldn’t have done a better job on ending our story.”

Coster-Waldau is “satisfied” with where the story goes and believes the fans will be as well. “We’ve worked harder than ever before. We spent twice as much time shooting these six episodes than we did on two full seasons before. No expense has been spared. We’ve gone all in,” he explains. “We really hope people will like it. We’ve done our best.”

Regarding his final scene, Coster-Waldau confesses it was emotional. However, he confesses he’s not quite finished with Game of Thrones. “I don’t think it’ll ever be gone from my life,” he teases. “I’m going back to Belfast next week…I’m not 100% done, but the last scene in the script – I’ve shot that, yeah.” He then clarifies by saying, “The last scene with me.” It seems Jaime Lannister won’t be in the final scene of the season – make of that what you will.

Jaime Lannister leaves episode 707

Whatever Jaime’s eventual fate may be, there are guaranteed to be shocking moments before it’s all over. Coster-Waldau believes shocking the audience – but not going overboard – is “what the show has been very good at. It’s such a fine balance.” He goes on to say that one scene was particularly brutal. “Shireen being burned at the stake was just cruel. I understand why they did it, but I just couldn’t watch it. And it was difficult to even read.” Join the club Nikolaj.

No matter how difficult that scene was, Coster-Waldau believes that “even the most extreme things have been driven by story. At this point in the show…you’re reaping the rewards of the work that’s been put into all these characters. As an audience member, you’re kind of invested into every single one of these people, which is…” He trails off before admitting, “I shouldn’t talk about the ending here.” It seems we should prepare ourselves for broken hearts next year!

Check out his full interview, including his thoughts on representation and #MeToo, over at Variety

 

217 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. We’ve worked harder than ever before. We spent twice as much time shooting these six episodes than we did on two full seasons before.

      … and then like seven, eight, nine or more months available for post-production. There shouldn’t be an reason they don’t get everything exactly how they want it. no excuses if they don’t

        Quote  Reply

    2. Almost 10 months since S7 was finished.

      9-10 more months to go until S8.

      If it airs in March/April like everyone is expecting.

        Quote  Reply

    3. mau,
      It must be a little goofy for the actors to film a scene like some done last October and then not see the finished product for a year and a half or longer.

        Quote  Reply

    4. Some may roll their eyes at this….The actors say it every year.

      But I am fulling expecting this to be the greatest TV watching experience ever. This is a show made with intense dedication and love.

      And if “The Winds of Winter” proves anything, its that… when we finally hit big moments that have been seasons in the making, this show delivers unlike anything else

        Quote  Reply

    5. People keep talking about The King Slayer’s character arc. He still pushed a little boy out of a freaking window. And on the show killed his own cousin, and threatened to chuck Lord Edmure’s child with a treb. Arc? The man is STILL without honor, and deserves what is coming for him. THE MOTHER FUCKING STRANGER!!!!! 🔪💀🔪 🔥🐲

        Quote  Reply

    6. Quenton Gilliam,

      Part of the joy of reading/watching fiction, is being able to get into the heads and understand what makes people do terrible things, and see the events in their life that lead them to make the terrible decisions they end up making.

      I’ve never watched this show to root for good guys and see the bad guys get their comeuppance.

        Quote  Reply

    7. Quenton Gilliam,

      In your rant you left out stabbing Jory Cassel through the eye and fighting Ned that resulted in a spear through the leg for little reason more than that he simply didn’t like Ned and wanted to prove himself a better fighter.

      Yes, he was a terrible shit who has done horrible things. I believe he’d say the same about himself. All he can do now is try to make up for his mistakes.

        Quote  Reply

    8. HelloThere,

      George RR Martin and D&D definitely are the best at writing epic scenes

      and they are also especially good at writing clever scenes that foreshadow what will happen in upcoming episodes and seasons. Princess Shireen burning was perfectly foreshadowed in Season 5 Episode 2 “The House of Black and White” by what Gilly says, what Shireen’s Mother says, and her Father Stannis Baratheon says.

        Quote  Reply

    9. Clob: you left out stabbing Jory Cassel through the eye and fighting Ned that resulted in a spear through the leg for little reason more than that he simply didn’t like Ned.

      Ned can thank Catelyn for that one since she impulsively had Tyrion taken into custody for attempting to kill Bran. Jaime started the fight once Ned confirmed that Tyrion was taken on “his” orders to protect his wife.

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    10. I interpreted a lot of this quite differently.

      He first said I shot the last scene and then almost seemed like he caught himself and said last scene with me. I’ve always thought he wouldn’t make it to the end but I interpreted that as him almost inferring he did and then editing the statement.

      The other thing that confuses me in the article is NCW isn’t finished shooting…

      The article reads, “Filming on the eighth season of Game of Thrones is wrapping up, and reports are trickling in on actors who have finished their shoots. Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is one of them – he has filmed his last scene as Jaime Lannister.”

      But he clearly said (I think) that he has other filming to do still, he just shot he final sequential scene, not that he has wrapped filming.

        Quote  Reply

    11. I hope they wrote Jaime a convincing scene of seeking forgiveness from Bran and the rest of the Starks. Not that I think Three-Eyed Bran will give a whit for such petty personal concerns as extracting vengeance or compensation anymore; he’ll probably dismiss his apology and say something to the effect that Jaime was merely an agent of destiny, and can we now please get back to the practical matter at hand of saving humanity? Cue very confused look on NCW’s face, segueing into full acceptance of his (probably self-sacrificial) new role – and perhaps a sense of relief that he finally has a higher calling than being Cersei’s enabler.

      Deciding whether or not to have Brienne present for this scene must have been a challenging authorial/directorial decision. I can imagine compelling arguments for and against.

        Quote  Reply

    12. I am so picking up what you are laying down here. I still think he’s the worst.

      Quenton Gilliam:
      People keep talking about The King Slayer’s character arc.He still pushed a little boy out of a freaking window. And on the show killed his own cousin, and threatened to chuck Lord Edmure’s child with a treb. Arc? The man is STILL without honor, and deserves what is coming for him.THE MOTHER FUCKING STRANGER!!!!! 🔪💀🔪🔥🐲

        Quote  Reply

    13. JaimenotJamie,

      IMO, it’s pretty clear: NCW has fimed Jaime’s last scene (which is going to be his death/funeral scene I suppose) but he’s still involved in KL action sequence, just like KH and EC (although she must have finished it recently). Action sequences take a lot of time to film, so no surprice that all the main warriors are still working, while the rest have finished.
      The only conclusion we can draw out of that is that Jaime will make it back to KL and survive till Ep 5 or even early 6.

        Quote  Reply

    14. On a personal note, I’m kind of done attempting to over-analyze every word from every actor in every interview trying to decipher the minutiae and the parsing of their words to figure out the fate of each character. Though, I do sometimes enjoy reading others’ speculation.

      I think I’ll stick with my original assumption that Ser Pounce will end up winning the Game of Thrones until I see otherwise next year when the episodes air.

      Ser Pounce is Azhor Ahai confirmed!

        Quote  Reply

    15. As an audience member, you’re kind of invested into every single one of these people, which is…

      “… going to be a real drag for the audience because the Night King kills everyone in Westeros, invades Essos and kills everyone there, and in the most nightmarish twist of all, Trump gets reelected.”

        Quote  Reply

    16. Clob:
      JaimenotJamie,

      Apparently he has some ‘dubbing’ work to do at the end of the month and a wrap party that’s conflicting with the German comic con.
      https://www.comiccon.de/en/news/change-for-nikolaj-coster-waldau

      Lena Headey said a couple months ago that filming will finish at the end June 2018. Maybe Lena Headey has some more days to film. Another 7 days of filming and then another big party. I hope to see more pictures of the final party.

        Quote  Reply

    17. Pigeon,

      Mock me, all those who wish to, but I want two things from Jaime in S8. Before he dies:

      1. He’s got to say out loud what he really meant when he was ostensibly talking about Oathkeeper: “It’s yours. It will always be yours.”

      I don’t care if it’s s blatant rip-off of Jane Austen: When Jaime arrives in WF and sees Brienne, he’s got to confess:

      “I come here with no expectations, only to profess, now that I am at liberty to do so, that my heart is and always will be…yours.” ❤️

      2. He’s got to have a passionate, tender, multiple-O love scene with Brienne.

        Quote  Reply

    18. Nik! Brilliant!

      Jaime!

      Sorry to not offer any intelligent analysis on my favourite actor and character but RL inpinges on me. Must catch some sleep to be bright-eyed and bushy-tailed tomorrow.

      Aah, but Nik… He’s sooo good as Jaime. A truly great actor.

        Quote  Reply

    19. talvikorppi,

      Everything Jamie said to Catelyn Stark was so EVIL… and NWC was so good at being so Mean and Cruel to Catelyn Stark and Brienne of Tarth during their first few days together. Some of the best dialog written by D&D

      NWC should have already won an Emmy!

        Quote  Reply

    20. Hmm… wonder why my comment several hours ago got lost in moderation. I didn’t say anything remotely controversial.

        Quote  Reply

    21. Ten Bears,

      This is something that has been building up for quite some time between the two, so I fully expect something along these lines to happen. So I’m fully in agreement with wanting this.. before Jamie kicks the bucket and I burst into tears..

      firstone,

      NCW deserves a huge amount of recognition for his portrayal of Jamie. He should have won an Emmy for the bath scene between him and Brienne as well.

      “By what right does the wolf judge the lion?”

      Such an amazing line with perfect delivery!

        Quote  Reply

    22. Ten Bears,

      1. He’s got to say out loud what he really meant when he was ostensibly talking about Oathkeeper: “It’s yours. It will always be yours.”

      I don’t care if it’s s blatant rip-off of Jane Austen: When Jaime arrives in WF and sees Brienne, he’s got to confess:

      “I come here with no expectations, only to profess, now that I am at liberty to do so, that my heart is and always will be…yours.” ❤️

      Sorry to be so picky, but I am afraid that is a page taken from Emma Thompson as screenwriter, since that words do not belong to Jane Austen, they are not on her novel, it was a dialogue completely invented by Thompson for the movie adaptation

        Quote  Reply

    23. Enharmony1625,

      I’m hoping for a followup of some kind to the conversation between Cersei and Brienne in S4e2:

      Cersei: “I owe you my gratitude. You returned my brother safely to King’s Landing.”
      Brienne: “In truth, he rescued me, Your Grace. More than once.”
      Cersei: “Did he? I haven’t heard that story before.”
      Brienne: “Not such a fascinating story, I’m afraid.”
      Cersei: “I’m sure you have many fascinating stories. Sworn to Renly Baratheon. Sworn to Catelyn Stark. And now my brother. Must be exciting to flit from one camp to the next serving whichever lord or lady you fancy.”
      Brienne: “I don’t serve your brother, Your Grace.”
      Cersei: “But you love him.”

        Quote  Reply

    24. JenStar Runner,

      To me Jamie will always be the douche who pushed a child from a tower and not once did he actually regret what he did. At least Theon had the decency to be tormented by his actions. The only way for Jamie to reclaim any decency is to bring down his twin sister/lover.

        Quote  Reply

    25. Ten Bears,

      I wonder if Brienne and Cersei will meet again this season. If Jaime and Cersei have to reunite, I need it be with Brienne by his side. It will be criminal for them not to share a scene together. Imagine the awkwardness.

        Quote  Reply

    26. I would like to believe that every person on this earth has the ability to change, I know it isn’t true, but I think in the character of Jaime the arc has shown he’s made mistakes yes, mostly due to his warped love for his sister, but he’s certainly turned things around. I can’t believe we are talking the end of GOT FOREVER! And we have another long winter ahead of us before we get to see the final product. I have no doubt it will be the best season ever.

        Quote  Reply

    27. Ten Bears,
      whateverdgaf,

      Given the fact that Cersei has basically succumbed to madness at this point, she would go thermal if she finds out that Jamie left her for Brienne. Not that he actually left her for Brienne, he did it because of his promise, but maybe Brienne is a small part of his decision? In any case, Cersei will not take kindly to that after her declaration of “No one walks away from me!” If she does indeed find out.. what if she tries to have Brienne killed? Probably using Quyburn or The Mountain?

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    28. Quenton Gilliam,

      I don’t have a problem with what he has done. I think in the same position I would do the same. He clearly had distaste for what he felt he must do, so there was no malice in it. It wasn’t as if he was leering out the window to see bran go splat. He stated his distaste for the things that he must do for love. But, bottom line, if a little peeping tom got that kind of life ending information on the woman that i loved (and lets’ face it, it was life ending even if robert didn’t find out let alone what would happen to her when he found out second hand!) that would be curtains for the kid. wouldn’t be any joy in doing it, but it would be a task that must be done, no if’s no but’s no maybe’s.
      When he was fighting Ned and his own man put his spear through the back of Neds knee, he was clearly miffed, and did not finish Ned off, only because there would have been no honor in such an action. He is no paragon, but he does yearn for elevation to the higher ideal. As long as he retains that yearning, he may mistep, but his goal will keep leading him ever upward.

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    29. don’t have a problem with what he has done. I think in the same position I would do the same. He clearly had distaste for what he felt he must do, so there was no malice in it. It wasn’t as if he was leering out the window to see bran go splat. He stated his distaste for the things that he must do for love. But, bottom line, if a little peeping tom got that kind of life ending information on the woman that i loved (and lets’ face it, it was life ending even if robert didn’t find out let alone what would happen to her when he found out second hand!) that would be curtains for the kid. wouldn’t be any joy in doing it, but it would be a task that must be done, no if’s no but’s no maybe’s.

      Seriously? This was an ok thing to do because Bran was a peeping tom? The kid was climbing a tower, which he had done many many times before so had no idea there was someone there. You are right – if Robert found out they would be dead. But why not just scare the kid with ‘you better not tell’. . And he didn’t need to leer out the window, he knew what was going to happen. It was evil deed done by a man without a conscious.

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    30. the unburdened,

      ash,

      I agree with your thinking here, unburdened. He isn’t saying pushing Bran off of a tower to his probable death was an okay thing to do, I think we can all agree it is a pretty horrible thing to do. And Jamie does acknowledges that he doesn’t want to do it, he just has to because there’s really no other option here. He’s not gonna take the risk of Bran telling someone? Too dire of consequences to trust a kid with that knowledge. It’s definitely a moral dilemma that isn’t actually a tough decision for him to make; but, that being said, with your life and your love’s life on the line, what would you do? It was an easy decision for Jamie to make, but I feel like we can all rationalize why he had to do it.

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    31. When thinking about what Jaime did to Bran says about Jaime’s character, I always think about Ned in chapter 45.
      “Ned thought, If it came to that, the life of some child I did not know, against Robb and Sansa and Arya and Bran and Rickon, what would I do? ”

        Quote  Reply

    32. ash,

      Jaime should not have done it of course, but he does have a conscious. That’s just the big difference between him and Cersei. But his love for Cersei has made him do terrible things. And his storyline is about becoming the man he is instead of being Cersei’s pawn. And Brienne is a good inspiration for him. It like the devil on one side and the angel on the other side. I think in the end he’ll give his life to save the Starks to make amends for what he’s done to them.

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    33. Like most of these debates I tend to fall somewhere in the middle here.

      On the one hand, if Jaime didn’t push Bran out the window then it surely would’ve meant the death of himself and Cersei. From a survival standpoint, it’s quite understandable.

      On the other hand, if Jaime had any shred of honor at the time then he would’ve accepted his punishment, whatever it would be, instead of doubling down on making costly mistakes that were his own fault. He and Cersei selfishly chose to save themselves over the life of an innocent child.

      It’s a tough debate, one that has multiple valid answers and opinions, just the way us GoT fans like it 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    34. Mr Derp,

      It’s not only about saving himself and Cersei, it’s also about saving the life of their kids. That’s why Ned went to Cersei so she could leave with the kids because Robert would kill them all if he’d find out.

        Quote  Reply

    35. Morals are also different in a tv show/movie compared to real life. Life is tougher in Game of Thrones, it’s kill or be killed. And I like to see that on screen. I love people like Ned Stark, Jon Snow, Arya, Dany, … But I cannot imagine that in real life I would have friends who sometimes behead people or burn them or poison them. I prefer people who stay away from their enemies rather than killing them. In real life I would have sweet and innocent friends like Shireen and Tommen and Myrcella.

        Quote  Reply

    36. Jaime probably didn’t even think about his own life. If I put myself in Jaime’s shoes, then yes! I would do what ever it took to save my wife’s life and her future. Unlike Cersei, I would then lose my wife because she would never stay with me after I killed a child. But then, I would put the gun to my head and pull the trigger knowing that her life and her future were saved/secured and be content with that. that is what love does to you, simple.
      And he should have done it. if you put him in the exact same scenario again he would do the same thing again. Think about it, his options are, kill the kid and bury the leverage that he has over Cersei {option one). bind and gag him and put him in a potato sack and send him to a land that he can never get back from (option two) He can’t take Bran away personally, if he and Bran go missing at the same time, too obvious. He can’t give the job to anyone else to do, as anyone who is not him can be bought, so it must be him, and he can’t leave, so back to option one.
      @ ash. I am not saying that Bran is a pervy little peeping tom that is sneaking around his own home trying to catch people out. I am saying that he is climbing a tower and hears moaning. Now everyone with any decency would know to back out of that situation and sneak away from the scene without finding out any more and without embarrassing himself or anyone else concerned. For all he knew it could have been his own mother and father, or the milkmaid and the stable hand. the point is, he made a conscious decision to go further than decency permits, which would have been fine had he found robert and the busty lass together. robert would have probably pressed a silver into his hand and told him to race off and find cersei and tell her what he saw. The problem is he did not find robert. he found cersei in a compromising position that placed the legitimacy of all her children in question. Something that no queen can afford. And of course the big problem for Bran was that the man that loved her was present.

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    37. the unburdened:
      @ ash. I am not saying that Bran is a pervy little peeping tom that is sneaking around his own home trying to catch people out. I am saying that he is climbing a tower and hears moaning. Now everyone with any decency would know to back out of that situation and sneak away from the scene without finding out any more and without embarrassing himself or anyone else concerned. For all he knew it could have been his own mother and father, or the milkmaid and the stable hand. the point is, he made a conscious decision to go further than decency permits

      At his age, Bran might not have known that they were having sex. I wouldn’t have known it when I was 10 years old. I would have been as curious as him and go and have a look, only to realise afterwards that I shouldn’t have done it.

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    38. the unburdened: everyone with any decency would know to back out of that situation and sneak away from the scene without finding out any more and without embarrassing himself or anyone else concerned.

      Dude, we’re talking about a 10 year old child in his own home. Bran deserves no blame for any of what happened.

      It’s not like 2 people were having sex in their room with the door closed. Jaime and Cersei were having an affair in a tower that they didn’t belong in. Anyone should’ve been curious about what was going on if they found out.

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    39. This same damn conversation about Jaime has been going on since the 1990s lololol…

      What have u done to us GRRM :'(

        Quote  Reply

    40. ash,

      “…You are right – if Robert found out they would be dead..”

      I suspect Jaime did it to save himself and Cersei, but I’m not sure Robert would have killed the children if he found out, especially with Ned as his Hand. I feel Jaime did the wrong thing for the wrong reason. His moral trajectory has been uneven (but probably on an upward slope overall ) since then, but what he did to Bran was vile. My attitude to Jaime tends toward neutral-dislike, but I have nothing against him having a redemptive arc. I think very few of the characters in GOT would be considered “good,” including my faves.

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    41. should bran have been in that spot? Absolutely not. He knew that it was against his mothers wishes.
      should cersie and jaime have being doing what they were doing in that tower? Absolutely not! They should have had enough decorum to keep their private life ‘in house’ at kings landing. But, who is accountable for what in this regard is not the issue here. and the issue is being clouded by this side debate. The issue is (how can jaime have any claim to honor when he kills a child) my assertion is, that if he was honorable he could do nothing else after he has been placed in that scenario by the author. Of course an honorable man would never get himself in that scenario in the first place. an honorable man would not commit adultery in the first place, end of. but jaime had no say in that, he was placed in that scenario by the author and therefore it is only that one issue that is the subject i am discussing. He is dumped in that scenario by grrm, like it or not. what does he do? He claims that he loves cersie. We take him on his word…… does he allow bran to run off and tell all and sundry what he saw and watch as the consequences of that unfold?. or, does he do what he can to protect her even if it means the ruination of his own soul. actions speak louder than words. and in this case, inaction on jaime’s part can only be interpreted as zero love for her and therefore zero honor because the only way that his honor can stay in place is if he is telling the truth, and inaction would scream at us that he is a liar.

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    42. krupke,

      Ned himself seemed pretty certain that Robert would kill the children. It’s why he told Cersei he was going to tell Robert of her adultery. And it’s not like Robert doesn’t have form in this area. He raised no qualms about Aegon and Rhaenys’s deaths.

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    43. whateverdgaf,

      In the show at least, Robert seemed to regret giving the go ahead to assassinate Dany. I think it’s possible that Ned would have convinced him not to kill children he’d raised as his own. Overall, it still doesn’t change the moral calculus of Jaime’s decision to me. He could have opted not to kill Bran and to try other strategies to save himself and Cersei (and possibly their children).

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    44. the unburdened,


      “….actions speak louder than words. and in this case, inaction on jaime’s part can only be interpreted as zero love for her and therefore zero honor because the only way that his honor can stay in place is if he is telling the truth, and inaction would scream at us that he is a liar.”

      I, as an audience member, would have interpreted inaction on Jaime’s part in this instance as a step towards honor. Him opting not to kill a child and deciding to find another way to save himself/cersei would (to me) be an act of honor. I think even to him, it would have been an act of honor. What he did to Bran was an attempt at survival.

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    45. krupke:
      whateverdgaf,

      In the show at least, Robert seemed to regret giving the go ahead to assassinate Dany.I think it’s possible that Ned would have convinced him not to kill children he’d raised as his own.Overall, it still doesn’t change the moral calculus of Jaime’s decision to me. He could have opted not to kill Bran and to try other strategies to save himself and Cersei (and possibly their children).

      He could have, but considering Robert’s previous behaviour and the consequences of Bran living, the only way he could garuntee his family’s safety was to push Bran.

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    46. I think some of these discussions were also mentioned in the comments in Patrick’s article about Bran last month. He discusses a potential resolution between Jaime and Bran, and since we know Jaime is heading up North, I think a reunion between the two is more than likely. But I think Olenna’s speech to Jaime before she dies was prophetic: “she’ll be the end of you.” Perhaps Jaime indeed will develop his relationship with Brienne, Cersei gets angry/jealous, she has Brienne killed, Jaime loses it and strangles Cersei. #Valonqar

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    47. whateverdgaf,

      Jaime could have run together with Cersei and their children, after Bran saw them. It’s not like Cersei was all that happy in her marriage and Robert would have been happy to get rid of his hateful wife. But no: Cersei wanted to be a queen and Jaime has always tolerated her disgusting lust for power. And it’s not true that we don’t choose the ones we love: normal people choose their lovers and friends based on their morality. But Jaime is not normal: he torments himsef by keeping loyalty to the most unworthy woman in the show most probalbly because he is a mazochist and the choice is his.

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    48. whateverdgaf,

      “…the only way he could garuntee his family’s safety was to push Bran.”

      I disagree. I don’t think Jaime thought that was his only option. Based off his demeanor and words at the time he pushed Bran, it seemed like an almost casual decision. Cersei and his life was of such importance that Bran’s didn’t seem to register much. That is, there did not seem to be much thought on his part in his decision to push Bran. He was an inconvenience and killing him would get rid of a problem. Pushing Bran wasn’t necessarily the only guaranteed strategy for his survival. Maybe the show shot it this way for the surprise factor and as an exhibit of how little other people mattered to Jaime outside of his immediate family at that point in time. He didn’t seem to lose sleep over it in other scenes. His sense of honor seems to expand/contract over the seasons (expanding mostly when he’s with Brienne). By the end of S7, in his conversation with Cersei, I tend to think that he really felt a need to protect humanity as a whole though his reasoning for going north was sound in a pragmatic way(if the AotD wins then everyone is dead, if the AotD loses then the survivors will come kill him and Cersei). There were echoes of this type of honor in his decision to kill Aerys (to protect the inhabitants of KL from death by wildfire) though that decision was also tied up in protecting his family.

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    49. Dark Sister,

      “…Cersei gets angry/jealous, she has Brienne killed…”

      It’s weird b/c Brienne’s just in my “like” column, and but I would lose my sh*t if this happened. Even if Jaime killed Cersei for doing it, I don’t think I’d ever forgive the writers for using Brienne’s character as a plot point in this way. I’m actually surprised at how much I hate that idea. I think it’s partly b/c I really dislike Cersei, and can’t stand the idea of her getting to extinguish someone like Brienne, who’s actually trying to be a good person…..

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    50. krupke,

      Well, Brienne’s not just trying to be a good person, she is one. 🙂 Sure, she has some flaws and has made some iffy decisions like abandoning her vigil over Sansa to go after Stannis..

      Anyway, my heart kind of sank when I wrote my part of this speculation earlier in this thread because it seems plausible doesn’t it? Apart from Jamie trying to kill Bran, his biggest transgression has been standing by Cersei for waaaaay to long. And I guess if they really want to sell Cersei as a super-villain, Brienne getting caught in this web is a horribly tragic way for it to end and would certainly drive Jamie to kill his sister. Cersei would probably manage to take out Jamie in the process too. I mean.. NCW did say season 8 is heartbreaking, so..

      But, I still hope/think that Jamie will die in Brienne’s arms. Still heartbreaking, but not so overly tragic. Maybe. Ugh, I don’t think I’m ready for this..

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    51. Julia:
      I love this guy. His character arch of Jamie’s has come so far.If Jaime does die, I hope it is in Breanne’s arms.

      Yep. I just watched the the brilliant Brienne bath scene (ha), and at the very end when she was holding him I thought…yeah, that’d probably be the best way to see him go.

      Clob:
      Quenton Gilliam,

      Yes, he was a terrible shit who has done horrible things.I believe he’d say the same about himself.All he can do now is try to make up for his mistakes.

      Agree. Lots of fair, reasonable points made on both/all sides here. One thing’s for certain–a reunion of Jaime (whom I definitely like and would classify as “getting better” if not actually “good”) and Bran can’t help but be very interesting. I loathe Cersei with a vengeance; if she manages to kill anybody else I like before getting taken out herself, I’ll be fightin’ mad. ;p

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    52. Inga,

      If Bran not had been pushed, don’t think they would have had time to runaway. How would they get their kids before Bran would open his mouth to tell his mother what he had seen?

      I think everyone agrees that Jaime should not have pushed Bran out of the window of course. In real life I could never be friends with someone who does that. But within the story it’s interesting to see how much Jaime changes when he is with Brienne. He didn’t have to rescue her at the bear pit, but he did. And I really want to see how much he changes now he is further away from Cersei.

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    53. Enharmony1625,

      And I guess if they really want to sell Cersei as a super-villain,

      Hee…I suspect most viewers don’t need anymore evidence that Cersei is a super-villain.

      “But, I still hope/think that Jamie will die in Brienne’s arms.”

      If Jaime is going to die, then I would hope that this is the scenario too.

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    54. But what, if he dies in Cerceis arms?!
      What if he still loves Cercei and sees nothing more (but nothing less also) in Brienne than a trustworthy, much valued friend?!
      I thought about twists in GOT – we all think, it’s foreshadowed, Jamie would die in Brienne’s arms, we all are convinced, that he really loves her as a diseable woman…
      May be, we are wrong?

      In spite og these thoughts, I hope, Brienne is his true love, and I hope, they both will find it out.
      And I hope, Jamie is searching for Bran’s forgiveness…

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    55. Im really, really ,REALLY, Disapointed with this site the last months about news of got and season 8 , so late and lazy with the news, Wotw was Always the best site on earth about news, even WiC is posting WAYYY more news a day for season 8, spoilers, cast Interview , articles , etc.

      I dont know what is hapening , and im no One to judge, but being the LAST season its Very Disapointing.

        Quote  Reply

    56. Lol,

      I’m new to this site but have enjoyed it so far. I don’t think they can create news/spoilers that aren’t there. Apparently there’ve been fewer leaks for season 8 than in past years. Sucks for spoilerwhores like me, but it’s not the site admins’ fault

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    57. Chilli,

      Brienne brings out the best in Ser Jaime. Toxic Cersei drags him down to his self-loathing, villainous Kingslayer villain personna.

      He wouldn’t be the first man that’s happened to.

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    58. Cinthia:
      Ten Bears,

      Sorry to be so picky, but I am afraid that is a page taken from Emma Thompson as screenwriter, since that words do not belong to Jane Austen, they are not on her novel, it was a dialogue completely invented by Thompson for the movie adaptation

      Yes. You’re right and I knew that but forgot to say so. Thank you for clarifying it. Emma Thompson did a spectacular job with that screenplay. And one of my all time favorite movie moments is not so much Edward (Hugh Grant) professing his feelings, but Emma Thompson’s reaction when he confirms he’s not married and she just loses it.

      PS Loved Alan Rickman in that movie too.

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    59. Lol:
      krupke,

      Just Go visit WiC, and i dont even like that site but for AT LEAST a month they are posting WAYYY more content of season 8 than here, and its not false spoilers or interviews.

      The thing is, Just compare, its a fact. For a time Other sites are posting more things of season 8 than here , and its Sad for me because here Always was the best got site Ever , but the truth is that in having to visit Other sites for interviews of the cast, season 8 spoilers and articles.

      Lol: At least when WotW publishes ‘news’, it’s probably true. As Krupke said, HBO has made security tight this year, so sources are dubious, people connected with the show troll, and leaks are so different and so many that almost nothing is very believable. WIC used to be fine, but it’s mostly like celebrity gossip–all sugar and no nutrients. One thing WotW has featured is excellent analytical essays, which usually generate equally excellent discussions. So if spoilers are your thing, maybe you should look elsewhere. But there’s plenty of meaty material here.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Enharmony1625:
      Ten Bears,
      whateverdgaf,

      Given the fact that Cersei has basically succumbed to madness at this point, she would go thermal if she finds out that Jamie left her for Brienne. Not that he actually left her for Brienne, he did it because of his promise, but maybe Brienne is a small part of his decision? In any case, Cersei will not take kindly to that after her declaration of “No one walks away from me!” …….

      If Cersei tries to f*ck with Jaime & Brienne? Brienne’s little sparring partner will do a LF-type carotid artery slice on her pale white throat. As Arya turns to leave while Cersei starts bleeding out, Cersei will whimper with her last gurgling breath the harsh realization:

      “No One walks away from me.”

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    61. Ten Bears,

      Loved Alan Rickman in that movie too

      sigh One of my all time fav actors. Surprised he was not cast in GOT given how many of his fellow brit actors got a role! He will be missed.

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    62. “No one walks away from me…” That’d rock!

      As a teen I fell in absolute love with Alan Rickman in the first Harry Potter film, motivating me to seek out all his other movies. I still can’t believe he passed.

      And I honestly like both sites (kinda wish this one used Disqus), though WiC could do with a bit of condensation. The 4-6 articles they seem to post a day could often be reduced. Or at least, somehow make them load faster…you get that stupid “whitelist our site” page in front of each one, but it’s slow enough as it is. o.O

        Quote  Reply

    63. Stark Raven’ Rad,

      Yes, definitely. Other GoT sites post celebrity/gossip type news which WotW does not post at all. WotW and Los Siete Reinos tend to be my favourites. And there’s a lot more book-to-show discussions here that I can’t find anywhere else. The content is sooo great during the season, and I don’t mind NOT getting spoilers. I actually managed to avoid some of Luka’s posts haha.

      Although, “Hairwatch” will definitely be on this weekend for Kit & Rose’s wedding so I can see WotW posting about the wedding if someone changed their hair. Let’s see if Kit chopped off his locks 👀 👀 👀

        Quote  Reply

    64. I am a spoiler hound myself, so if anybody does get any more, I’d accept them via e-mail…xD Although I’m sure I’d see them on these two sites first anyways.

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    65. Chilli,

      I disagree: Robert was on a hunt + the Starks (both Catelyn and Ned) would not put inocent children at risk + Bran wouldn’t have told his parents straight away (he got scared and hardly understood what he saw and children tend to conceal things in such cases). Moreover, it’s legit to asume that Bran was not the first who saw them – Cersei and Jaime were at a permanent risk. However, instead of fleeing to safety they choase to live under stress endangering both themselves and the others. That’s masochism, although in Cersei’s case it goes hand in hand with sadism. And Jaime is simply adicted to suffering. Brienne has shown him a different way and now he has a chance to heal, but he has to admitt that everything was his own choice.

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    66. So at least one more week of filming still to go then!

      As for Jamie, I’ll be surprised if he survives the story myself.

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    67. Clob: … and then like seven, eight, nine or more months available for post-production.There shouldn’t be an reason they don’t get everything exactly how they want it.no excuses if they don’t

      They usually have 2-3 months for post production so if we double that we should get the premiere in February.

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    68. krupke:
      whateverdgaf,

      “…the only way he could garuntee his family’s safety was to push Bran.”

      I disagree.I don’t think Jaime thought that was his only option. Based off his demeanor and words at the time he pushed Bran, it seemed like an almost casual decision. Cersei and his life was of such importance that Bran’s didn’t seem to register much. That is, there did not seem to be much thought on his part in his decision to push Bran.He was an inconvenience and killing him would get rid of a problem. Pushing Bran wasn’t necessarily the only guaranteed strategy for his survival.Maybe the show shot it this way for the surprise factor and as an exhibit of how little other people mattered to Jaime outside of his immediate family at that point in time.He didn’t seem to lose sleep over it in other scenes. His sense of honor seems to expand/contract over the seasons (expanding mostly when he’s with Brienne). By the end of S7, in his conversation with Cersei, I tend to think that he really felt a need to protect humanity as a whole though his reasoning for going north was sound in a pragmatic way(if the AotD wins then everyone is dead, if the AotD loses then the survivors will come kill him and Cersei).There were echoes of this type of honor in his decision to kill Aerys (to protect the inhabitants of KL from death by wildfire) though that decision was also tied up in protecting his family.

      Jamie was driven early on by doing absolutely anything for Cersei including threatening to catapult Edmund’s baby if he had to. He’s also driven by the love of his brother Tyrian (in attacking Ned Stark). This may be obvious to everyone, but it’s Brienne that brings out the knight in him, and his moves have been very knightly when he is with her (I won’t list them all here). I am very excited to see NCW in season 8. His transformation at the end of season 7 was so striking as he left Cersei. His honor took him north to keep his promise, and hopefully his fatal flow of doing anything for Cersei is at least on hold. It was such a striking visual scene as NCW left on a black horse with his new black wardrobe. One of my favorite scenes in the entire series was Jamie charging the dragon through the flames. Such bravery and stupidity, but it was just an amazing scene. He’s come a long way since the day he pushed Bran. He will still be blinded by love to do horrible things, but he has honor in him, and I fully expect to see him fill up he pages of his book with his season 8 deeds. I do think his interview gives away what I think most believe that he won’t make it to the end (as he said all of the scenes he is in are finished). I think many actors enjoy doing a death scene, and I think his will be brilliant. Regarding other GOT sites, most of the news seems to come out when there is an interview, and much is duplicated, but I much prefer WOTW to other sites. There just hasn’t been as much news this year because the security is tight. The articles on WOTW are in depth, and I find the comments interesting to read, and I love my tshirt(s). I wear them often, and it’s a little stealthier than just having a big GOT dragon on my chest. And I like wearing black! A few in the know will recognize WOTW, and it keeps the show close to my heart all year.

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    69. whateverdgaf:
      When thinking about what Jaime did to Bran says about Jaime’s character, I always think about Ned in chapter 45.“Ned thought, If it came to that, the life of some child I did not know, against Robb and Sansa and Arya and Bran and Rickon, what would I do? ”

      agree. When i read that in the book, my thoughts were ‘well, ned might be an idealist but at least he isn’t a blind idealist. he is showing a maturity equal to his life experiences. well done grrm.’

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    70. Lol,

      We don’t post false reports and fabricated rumors. Having a higher standard does lead to us posting less than some other sites, and we’ll never apologize for that. 🙂

      edit: oh never mind, I recognize that email. “LOL” is someone we banned under another screenname for trolling and attacking people. guess we should have banned the IP/email too!

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    71. Lol: Morals are also different in a tv show/movie compared to real life. Life is tougher in Game of Thrones, it’s kill or be killed. And I like to see that on

      I used to use WiC but soon realised they copied articles from Watchers and also post rumours that aren’t true. I always think of that site as a tabloid and this a broadsheet.

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    72. Tron79,

      In fact, I don’t think that Jaime changed all that much. He has always been that protective type: he was raised by an abusive and sadistic father who was tormenting all of his children (yes, Cersei and Jaime himself were belittled and humiliated as much as Tyrion), so Jaime chose to love them against all odds to compensate the lack of emotional support they were suffering. He was protecting them just as he was protecting the people of KL. However, Ned failed to understand which hurt Jaime to the core and made him to turn away from everyone, except of his siblings. Brienne was the only person to show him trust and that dragged him out of his isolation but in the core Jaime was always the same. Only we went a long way getting to know him.

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    73. Ok so I know that Jon and Leslie’s wedding will not be covered on this site – and I totally understand and get it. But I gotta admit Im more excited about this than I was about the royals wedding! Where might be a site I might check out for photos and such?

        Quote  Reply

    74. Inga,

      interesting take that Jamie’s main motivation was “protecting” KL and his family. I think 99% of his motivation was just Cersei and nothing but Cersei. He would do anything and everything for Cersei, including staying as close to her as possible as Kings guard instead of fulfilling his family responsibilities as the next to carry on the Lannister name. To me, more noble parts of his character came out when he saw that the mad king was going to “burn them all”. I think he faced a dilemma that he revealed to Brienne in the bath. He had a choice of either upholding his Kings Guard vow to protect the king or to protect all the innocent people the mad king was about to incinerate. He made a choice, and in this case I don’t think it had anything to do with Cersei. You are right that he is protective of his family and KL though. Carrying on with that idea, I’m guessing he will have a final scene that will end badly for him as he pays the price for protecting Brienne, Jon or Dany…

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    75. ash,

      Will it not be? Wasn’t Emilia’s 30th bday celebration covered last year due to the gathering of thrones actors. There’s plenty of thrones cast at the wedding (Vanity Fair has quite a few pictures). I’d hope two GOT actors marrying would get an article, but maybe I’m just a hopeless romantic. They looked so happy. Really lovely to see.

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    76. ash:
      Ok so I know that Jon and Leslie’s wedding will not be covered on this site – and I totally understand and get it.But I gotta admit Im more excited about this than I was about the royals wedding! Where might be a site I might check out for photos and such?

      I hear you! But every rule has its exemptions and exceptions. The way I look at it, the site covered the issuance of Royal Mail GoT stamps a few months ago. including a Jon Snow stamp. The couple used those Jon Snow stamps on their wedding invitations.

      So, doesn’t that make the wedding itself a proper subject ? In addition ….

      HairWatch 2018 is vital to our filming and production schedule speculation, isn’t it? Do we not need to analyze current photographs of the ex-KiTN to determine if he’s still filming?

      Oh, almost forgot…

      F*ck Olly

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    77. I hope at least WiC shares whatever pics come out of the wedding, which I find much more exciting than the royal one. 😉

      Tron79–I agree with most of what you said. ^^

      And oh man oh man, I hope the premiere is in February!! 😡

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    78. Che:
      ash,

      Will it not be? Wasn’t Emilia’s 30th bday celebration covered last year due to the gathering of thrones actors. There’s plenty of thrones cast at the wedding (Vanity Fair has quite a few pictures). I’d hope two GOT actors marrying would get an article, but maybe I’m just a hopeless romantic. They looked so happy. Really lovely to see.

      It’s a very public personal event, so maybe? The two of them looked great. Rose has always looked frail to me, but the dress suited her and her hair was fun.

      Ten Bears:
      Oh, almost forgot…

      F*ck Olly

      Yup!!!

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    79. Ten Bears,

      Hair Watch – Jon – Davos – Varys – Tyrion all still look like their GOT characters, Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen aka: Emilia Clarke too!!!!!

      Kit – Peter – Liam and Conleth all look like they could be onset at the studio in Belfast to film scenes next week. Kit will probably get a few days off.

      I am surprised Jamie and Cercie were not at he wedding.

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    80. ash,

      Hey all, I have nothing against posting special events but I remember sue told me it’s not apppopo for the site. So sue, is that still the case?

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    81. The photos you’re seeing on social media were taken by the paparazzi, not publicly released by the actors. This is a personal event and we have always tried to respect their privacy- this has nothing to do with filming etc, so we’re not going to violate their privacy.

      (And I’m not sure what the official Royal Mail Game of Thrones stamps have to do with anything, c’mon now, that’s a reach.)

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    82. Tron79,

      “I’m guessing he will have a final scene that will end badly for him as he pays the price for protecting Brienne, Jon or Dany…”
      _______________________

      The way I look at it, a character dying doesn’t necessarily mean it “will end badly for him”, especially if it’s “paying the price” for protecting someone worthy of the sacrifice. Syrio Forel, for example, died a heroic death.

      Was it Davos or Stannis who said something like one’s good deeds don’t wash out the bad, and vica versa?

      Anyway, we shouldn’t be surprised if Jaime’s reckoning is at hand for all the creepy things he’s done. Yet, he can still go out a hero, with a whole chapter of noble deeds to fill the blank pages in the Kingsguard White Book. And he can do right by Brienne, even if it’s only for one night.

      Some of the best characters on GoT are heroes who are villains or villains who are heroes; or good people who are misled into committing unspeakable evil or making disastrous decisions.

      I’ll got to give the show and NCW credit. I f*cking hated Jaime after pushing Bran out the window without remorse; goofing on Jon Snow for joining the NW; and cruelly insulting Brienne.

      Now? I want to see him consummate his love and leave the world remembered as a legend, rather than (or in addition to) a dirtbag kingslayer.

      PS. If he kills the Night King, does that make him a Kingslayer all over again?

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    83. Ten Bears,

      yes, maybe a poor choice of words with “end badly”. By end badly, I was thinking that Jamie wouldn’t be able to make it to the end, but I definitely am looking forward to him ending bravely and filling the pages of his book. It is pretty amazing how much my attitude changed as well from the day he attacked Ned to the day he left Cersei on his black horse. Nice twist on the “Kingslayer” with Jamie possibly killing the NK, but I think it’s more likely it may be Sam with the Tarley sword Heartsbane striking the final blow.

      I really agree with your feelings about Jamie’s transformation.

      I’ll got to give the show and NCW credit. I f*cking hated Jaime after pushing Bran out the window without remorse; goofing on Jon Snow for joining the NW; and cruelly insulting Brienne. Now? I want to see him consummate his love and leave the world remembered as a legend, rather than (or in addition to) a dirtbag kingslayer.

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    84. Ten Bears: F*ck Olly

      F*ck Olly? F*ck Olly? You should have more respect. He is the single greatest deployment of Chekhov’s Gun…er…Bow…in the history of cinema! Universities around the globe now require all FILM101 courses to contain at least one essay on his S4 arc, two essays get you drinks with the prof’s TA after hours.

      But their night lamp had only begun to shine brilliantly. In order to provide the most amazing demonstration of academic fortitude, Olly then went on to serve as the ultimate trope…The righteous apprentice must betray the unsound master! Right in the heart! The ultimate revenge upon those who test the nationalist fervor and sympathize with a foreign cause. Oh, the reverberations of timely metaphors, the mirrors within!

      Yeah, F*ck Olly! Hang him high!
      Cheers. 🙂

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    85. Chilli: At his age, Bran might not have known that they were having sex. I wouldn’t have known it when I was 10 years old. I would have been as curious as him and go and have a look, only to realise afterwards that I shouldn’t have done it.

      You quite obviously grew up in the city. For all intents and purposes, we are talking about country people here. People who all the time see stallions mated to mares, bulls mated to cows. They see chickens, and ducks and geese, sheep and goats, dogs and cats getting it together all the time and they see it all from pre-school age. There is no child that grows up in the country that does not know what it is about. And they don’t think that it is good or it is bad, they just think that it is necessary for the cycle of life.
      I remember when we were yarding my neighbours cattle, years ago, and their four year old grand daughter asked ‘why the bull was trying to put the carrot into that cow?’ You do not lie to little-ones about those things or they grow up with unhealthy attitudes towards them. Nor, do you make a big deal of it, or it is way too important. it is just mummy and daddy cow making next years generation of calves, and that’s it. No more need be said. So, the idea that Bran did not know what was going on is laughable. He knew what he heard. He just needed to know ‘who’.

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    86. Jamie has to do something Heroic in season 8… King Joffery embarrassed Jamie for being a King’s Guard and not having any heroic stories written about him in the “book of brothers” in season 4 episode Two Swords.

      Jamie’s heroic moment might have something to do with Jamie’s golden hand and saving Queen Daenerys Stormborn…. season 7 Jamie attempts to kill Queen Daenerys… season 8 Jamie Lannister saves Daenerys life… just a guess.

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    87. the unburdened: For all intents and purposes, we are talking about country people here. People who all the time see stallions mated to mares, bulls mated to cows. They see chickens, and ducks and geese, sheep and goats, dogs and cats getting it together all the time and they see it all from pre-school age. There is no child that grows up in the country that does not know what it is about… the idea that Bran did not know what was going on is laughable. He knew what he heard. He just needed to know ‘who’.

      That’s not canon, though. Per the first book (in which he is only 6), Bran heard odd sounds coming from the (usually uninhabited) tower and went to investigate, having no idea what he was hearing. Even when he saw Jaime and Cersei together, he didn’t immediately grasp what he was witnessing.

      What you say makes sense for peasant kids who grow up on a farm, but growing up in an aristocratic household in a castle or holdfast would not have been the same thing. Livestock would not have had the run of Winterfell; animals being raised for food would probably have been kept outside the walls, except perhaps for chicken coops, dovecotes etc. Mares kept in the stables for riding would have been segregated from the stallions when they were in heat, unless they were deliberately being bred. And most likely, most of the riding and draft animals would have been neutered to keep them docile and induce them to bulk up.

      In any case, whether it seems to make sense or not, it’s the author who gets the last word on how cognizant Bran was of what he was hearing/seeing.

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    88. firstone: Jamie’s heroic moment might have something to do with Jamie’s golden hand and saving Queen Daenerys Stormborn…. season 7 Jamie attempts to kill Queen Daenerys… season 8 Jamie Lannister saves Daenerys life… just a guess.

      I’m not feeling it. There’s no strong connection between Jaime and Dany. They haven’t even seen each other up close. I don’t think she’s going to play any significant role in the completion of his arc.

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    89. I never brought in that a character has to die to be redeemed. Jaime is willing to give up his life for the greater good and it is that choice he makes that redeems him, not the actual death. Same for Theon.

      And he is not going to die for Jon or Dany. He hardly needs to be redeemed for killing the Mad King, and the only other connection is through Rhaegar which is mentioned lightly in the books and never in the show. If Jaime were to die for a character, it would be one who has personal significance to him. Either a person he loves, like Brienne or Tyrion (or god forbid Cersei please no) or Bran.

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    90. the unburdened,

      For your information I did grew up in the country between the fields and the prairies with cows and horses, pigs, chickens … and dogs guarding the territory and cats hunting after mice.

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    91. Chilli:
      the unburdened,

      For your information I did grew up in the country between the fields and the prairies with cows and horses, pigs, chickens … and dogs guarding the territory and cats hunting after mice.

      lol, that’s funny stuff xD. and you didn’t know about the birds and the bees until aged 10? I don’t think anything more need be said on the subject. This is where I find Jaime’s greatest honor dilemma.

      His sword helped taint the throne you sit on, Ned thought, but he did not permit the words to pass his lips. “He swore a vow to protect his king’s life with his own. Then he opened that king’s throat with a sword.”
      “Seven hells, someone had to kill Aerys!” Robert said, reining his mount to a sudden halt beside an ancient barrow. “If Jaime hadn’t done it, it would have been left for you or me.”
      “We were not Sworn Brothers of the Kingsguard,”

      This action needed to be anyone else in westeros other than a kingsguard. Ned is 100% correct. The only way jaime could get out of that with any semblance of honor still in tact is if Aerys was screaming “burn them all” while his fingers hovered over [THE BIG RED BUTTON], and even then his honor would be tarnished, because you can not escape the fact that he abandoned his vow. If there was any chance at all that he could get out of that chamber and get someone else to deal with Aerys, then dealing with Aerys was not his job. This incident and grappling with Cersie while Joffrey lay beside them still waiting for rigor mortis to set in are the two big ones that he can not get out of with his honor intact imo.

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    92. Well Kit hasn’t had his hair cut, so do we decipher he will be there until the very end of filming or is he heading out on honeymoon now for the last week or two?

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    93. A Feb premiere is not unrealistic, they did say either end of 2018 or start of 2019 however both Kim Renfro and James Hibberd (the two best GOT journalists) have suggested March is the most likely date.

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    94. Genuine question but would saving Dany be heroic or a reasonable character arc? I just don’t see it however dying to save Arya/Sansa or even Brienne is far more in line with restoring his honour.

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    95. Firannion: I’m not feeling it. There’s no strong connection between Jaime and Dany. They haven’t even seen each other up close. I don’t think she’s going to play any significant role in the completion of his arc.

      Who knows what Jamie’s heroism will be? My guess of Jamie saving Daenerys would be unexpected…. surprising… something no one would expect. Something George RR Martin has done at times. George RR Maritn said there is going to be at least one more OMG I can’t believe that just happened moment with some character? The OMG scene will probably have to something to do with Jon Snow or Tyrion or Bran or Arya or Sansa or Varys or Cercei and Jamie Lannister. Or maybe even Samwell T

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    96. firstone:
      Jamie has to do something Heroic in season 8… King Jofferyembarrassed Jamie for being a King’s Guard and not having any heroic stories written about him in the “book of brothers” in season 4 episode Two Swords.

      Jamie’s heroic moment might have something to do with Jamie’s golden hand and saving Queen Daenerys Stormborn…. season 7 Jamie attempts to kill Queen Daenerys… season 8 Jamie Lannister saves Daenerys life… just a guess.

      Hey, I like your Ser Goldenhand “heroic moment” scenario. I always enjoy “bookend” scenes showing a character in a similar situation she or he has faced before – but acting or reacting differently the second time.

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    97. the unburdened,

      Let’s allow some nuance into Jaime’s decision to whack the Mad King. It’s like he tried to explain to Catelyn [when he was in his sexy, shaggy haired, bearded prisoner scene]: what are you supposed to do when you’ve made so many different vows that it makes your head spin? And as he explained to Brienne in their famous bathtub scene, what are you supposed to do when you encounter a situation when honoring one vow violates another?

      As a Kingsguard, you’re supposed to protect the king and follow his orders no matter what? So, when you see he’s about to punch in the launch codes to nuke the entire city, you’re supposed to just stand there and ask “would you like some fries with your order?”

      The only part of his decision that confounds me is why he didn’t explain why he did what he did. Brienne was surprised to learn the truth about “the Kingslayer”; I did not quite understand his explanation when she asked him why he hadn’t told anyone.

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    98. Firannion,

      I think if would’ve been enough if young Bran – whether he knew about the birds and the bees or not – mentioned to Catelyn: “Hey Mom! Guess what? I saw Jaime Lannister and the Queen playing leapfrog in their underwear in the tower!”

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    99. Firannion,

      They were up close during the Dragon Pit scene after the wight was ‘killed’ when Jamie asked her ‘How many?’ and Dany replied ‘100,000 at least’ in reference to the Army of the Dead

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    100. Ten Bears:
      the unburdened,

      Let’s allow some nuance into Jaime’s decision to whack the Mad King. It’s like he tried to explain to Catelyn [when he was in his sexy, shaggy haired, bearded prisoner scene]: what are you supposed to do when you’ve made so many different vows that it makes your head spin? And as he explained to Brienne in their famous bathtub scene, what are you supposed to do when youencounter a situation when honoring one vow violates another?

      As a Kingsguard, you’re supposed to protect the king and follow his orders no matter what?So, when you see he’s about to punch in the launch codes to nuke the entire city, you’re supposed to just stand there and ask “would you like some fries with your order?”

      The only part of his decision that confounds me is why he didn’t explain why he did what he did. Brienne was surprised to learn the truth about “the Kingslayer”; I did not quite understand his explanation when she asked him why he hadn’t told anyone.

      Well said.

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    101. Ten Bears,

      However, protecting the king from the king himself does not include the act of actually killing him. The extreme limits of what jaime could do and still keep his honor in tact is apprehend Aerys in the name of protecting him from himself and handing him over to the new authority (in this case it would have been Ned Stark when he arrived). But actually killing him? How can he then claim that he was protecting him from himself? Lets face it, I think that we all know that he was trying to claim a modicum of high ground for house Lannister. As shonky as that sounds, it is politically motivated and totally out of bounds for a kingsguard. You can be sure, that Barriston Selmy would never venture there.

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    102. OT but just wanted to say I was very happy seeing Rose and Kit’s wedding pics from yesterday. She looked radiant, beautiful classy dress and Kit of course very handsome still has his hair. People are commenting on poor choice of Sophie attire. Madden was there in kilt looking very nice as well 🙂

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    103. ygritte,

      People are always going to go after Sophie/Sansa. She is a beautiful young woman and has the legs to pull that look off. Wish folk would leave her alone (tho it is possible she wore that for the extra attention, who knows)

      And yes, loved those photos, they all look so happy and lovely!

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    104. the unburdened,

      Jaime was indoctrinated into the KG at the age of 14. Men admired and idolised the bykingdom stood by and watched the Mad King commit atrocity after atrocity and forced Jaime to do the same. If by that point Jaime; a traumatised 17 year old, has no desire to protect the Mad King, whatever vows he made, I can’t blame him.

      Barristan Selmy may have not done the same, but it was Selmy and Dayne and that lot who stood by as Aerys raped his wife and made Jaime do the same. So Jaime not doing the same as them is hardly a criticsism. I’d say that is a count in his favour.

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    105. Finally back from our midsummer celebrations, finally able to watch/read the Variety interview linked in the article.

      Nik is just so great. Very polite and nice about the slight navel-gazing of #metoo and the American/Hollywood furore of the past year. He’s a Dane, from a Nordic country where women’s rights have been far ahead of the US for decades (even centuries), and rightly gently points out that there are still 150 countries in the world where actual legislation works against women. Puts #metoo into perspective.

      The interviewer, who obviously wanted some juicy #metoo scandal stuff, was left a bit flapping when Nik took a more measured route and brought in the bigger picture outside the American entertainment industry/American new angry feminist movement bubble.

      He obviously has a different view, having grown up in 1970s, 1980s Denmark. Where feminism was more practical than ideological. He’s a natural advocate of equal male/female rights, responsibilities, opportunities. He’s been happily married for about twenty years and is a proud father to two teenage daughters. Apparently the three women in his family let him do “boy stuff” like mountain biking or having poker nights but mostly he’s a family man.

      I can imagine the thoroughly decent human being Nik loving the role of Jaime, who is less than good, very grey. It must be a dream job for a talented and skilled actor.

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    106. Now, as to Jaime… All the regulars here know I’m a HUGE Jaime fan. But I’m not a Jaime apologist.

      Throwing Bran out the window was bad, even evil. And no, I don’t think he was thinking about his kids and saving their lives. He was thinking of himself and Cersei and their twisted secret “love”.

      However, in the books, it’s clear that Jaime’s first instinct was to save the falling boy, while Cersei is screaming “What are you doing?” Jaime looks to Cersei, says, with loathing, “Things I do for love” and shoves Bran. Later Cersei berates Jaime for shoving Bran out the window but that’s classic Cersei. Shift blame away from herself, rewrite history, blame everybody else, refuse to accept any culpability. My reading is that Cersei would’ve been totally OK about it if Bran had died. He didn’t, so she wants to put all the blame on Jaime and pretend to be squeaky clean herself. This is clearer in the books.

      That said, Jaime, after first saving the boy, did push him to his death, only, he didn’t die. So, Jaime chose to do that evil deed and no amount of jaimesplaining by fans is going to change that. And no, I don’t think Jaime was trying to protect his children. At the time, Joff was a squirt in Cersei’s cunt and Myrcella and Tommen even less. Jaime was only thinking of himself and Cersei. Oh bad, bad, evil deed!

      At least Jaime was honest about it to Catelyn to her face. Yes, I tried to kill your precious boy. Yes, the kids are mine, not Robert’s. So many vows…

      I think GRRM, and to a lesser extent D&D, are using Jaime to demonstrate the problem with vows and oaths as a basis of social order = feudal society has huge inbuilt problems. In the books, Jaime is a surprisingly modern character, well-steeped in their feudal culture but questioning it.

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    107. ash:
      ygritte,

      People are always going to go after Sophie/Sansa.She is a beautiful young woman and has the legs to pull that look off. Wish folk would leave her alone (tho it is possible she wore that for the extra attention, who knows)

      And yes, loved those photos, they all look so happy and lovely!

      It’s because she wore a siren red jacket and no pants with thigh-high heeled boots, which would look fantastic for a magazine editorial shoot, but some thought more appropriate for a club than a wedding. But I expect Kit will go to hers in a plaid leather tux or something, so hey. 😜 Maisie’s jumpsuit was ok, I did like how they kind of matched accessories to each other! I didn’t even recognize Richard at first with the sunglasses and graying hair, but he looked fantastic. I liked Emilia’s dusty rose coat. And Liam with the green tie to Irish thing up a bit. 😁 Ben Crompton was my favourite though, because he smiled. 😉

      ANYWAY…I feel like Jaime can’t win with some people. Because of his actions they feel he can’t be redeemed, but without his actions there may not have been a story at all, as some of the characters would have been blown up by wildfire ages ago, and Bran may never have found his powers and the NK and gang would have the advantage. Of course what Jaime did wasn’t right. But in the words of a wise character in Hot Fuzz, “The Greater Gooooood….”

      Now, if he somehow goes back to Cersei (please God no), I don’t give a fuck what happens to him.

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    108. Jon Snowed:
      It would be unexpected because there is no set up or reason for him to do so, hence bad story telling.

      Yeah Cersei and Jamie are totally working together in season 7. Queen Cersei would be so happy if her brother/lover Jamie Lannister saved Queen Daenerys Targaryen… Yeah no setup at all… bad story telling. If Jamie hasn’t had enough of being insulted and downgraded by Cercie, Tywin, Joffery, Lady Olenna Tyrell he is a lost cause. Lady Olenna Tyrell told Jamie he was a fool to his face. Jamie now knows he’s been played by Cersei for a long time. Jamie is wearing a black glove over his goldenhand… and he is riding a black horse. NCW seems very happy with season 8 and… Jamie saving Queen Daenerys life probably won’t happen but it would be a good twist if he did.

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    109. talvikorppi: the slight navel-gazing of #metoo and the American/Hollywood furore of the past year.

      talvikorppi: the American entertainment industry/American new angry feminist movement bubble.

      I’m confused. How is it “navel-gazing” that American women have finally decided that they’re done with being sexually abused, with being expected to put up with it/keep silent about it, with having to second-guess their every move based on whether or not it puts them in greater jeopardy of being attacked? Do you have any clue what life is like for a woman, particularly if you can’t afford a car to get you safely from place to place?

      I realize that there is a language difference here, but this comes off as a bit condescending, and there are plenty of women in this group who won’t let it stand.

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    110. Sorry I still don’t see any set-up at all. Who is Dany to Jamie? He has absolutely no relation to her. Presumably within a few episodes she won’t be Queen either (once Jon’s parentage comes out) unless they agree to marry. Cersei is already angry with Jamie and would unlikely know if Jamie saves anyone’s life unless it’s his dying moment.

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    111. Colin Armfield,

      Remember that slow motion shot of Ygritte dying in Jon Snow’s arms, with Jon sobbing and promising they’d go back to that cave and Ygritte replying “You know nothing, Jon Snow” with her last breath? That imprinted a sad, indelible image on my brain.

      Not anymore. 😋 It’s been replaced. So while I understand your desire to apologize for inadvertently posting an image instead of a link … I kind of want to thank you.

      PS F*ck Olly. Last laugh’s on him.

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    112. Jon Snowed,

      Dany is the only dragon rider and therefore she is important to the War for Dawn, just like Bran, Jon, and many others. In other words, there’s plenty of setup for Jaime to sacrifice himself saving a more valuable fighter.
      But I don’t think that will be the case: I think Jaime will sacrifice himself to take out Cersei and/or the Night King’s dragon. The Night King himself should be Jon’s kill but his dragon would be a fitting kill for Jaime IMO.

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    113. firstone,

      “Jamie now knows he’s been played by Cersei for a long time.”
      _________
      Quick question – if anyone knows…

      Did Jaime ever know or learn that Cersei had been fornicating with his dweeb cousin Lancel?

      Despite the whole incest thing. he prided himself on being faithful to Cersei. He even boasted about it while trying to piss off Catelyn by reminding her how her husband had cheated on her and brought home a bastard.

      Yet, I don’t recall Cersei and Jaime ever addressing her boinking Lancel, which as I recall was the basis of the charge of adultery to which she confessed, resulting in her naked stroll down Main Street with the bell-ringing “Shame” Septa Unella.

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    114. Aw, it seem my post about Jaime the character (as opposed to NCW the actor) is stuck in moderation… maybe because I used the controversial hashtag in my previous post..? It’ll probably appear soon.

      Whatever, but as regulars know, I’m a HUGE Jaime fan, though not an apologist. Because he’s such a controversial but relatable and complex and even likeable character once you get to know what makes him tick.

      He was introduced to us through a Stark lens, so not good at all. Only, later we learn the Stark lens isn’t the whole truth or infallible, so we get more meat for thought.

      The show used Myrcella to show Jaime having fatherly feelings. In the books Jaime never went to Dorne but he is very fatherly to Tommen at Tywin’s wake: protective, understanding, reassuring, giving advice (“Go away inside” – what teenage Jaime did when he had to witness atrocities in Aerys’s court.) It’s cut short by Cersei shaming and berating poor Tommen, comparing him unfavourably to Joff.

      Later in the books Jaime lets Tommen train jousting with Loras, doesn’t mind the kittens, almost supports Tommen in outlawing beets… Cersei is against every single one of these measures, of course. She turns more and more against Jaime. It’s never been the same after he let himself be captured and then maimed. He’s not perfect anymore, so not good enough to be her male reflection.

      Sorry, book stuff. The show has made Cersei more rational, likeable etc., at the expence of Jaime’s character – he’s been her lapdog until S7E7. Gods, I gave a fistpump when I saw Jaime in simple garb on a black horse, on his way North. (Go check it. Jaime has always ridden a white horse – a dig at the “knight in shining armour on a white charger” trope).

      Aah, my dear Jaime will die. Maybe some, like Brienne, will know he died heroically. Most people in Westeros will only know kingslaying and maybe sister-fucking. Whatever he does in the War for the Dawn, he’ll be an unsung hero. He’ll never be redeemed in the eyes of the general Westerosi public, and probably not in the eyes of maybe a third of ASOIAF fans, either.

      Just as long as Jaime finds some personal redemption before dying, I’ll be happy.

      It’s kinda weird, spending several years preparing for the death of one of your all time favourite fictional characters. Knowing it’s coming, just making your peace with the inevitable.

      Bye, Jaime. (snif.)

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    115. Jon Snowed:
      Sorry I still don’t see any set-up at all. Who is Dany to Jamie?

      Erhm… Jaime killed Dany’s father.

      Dany might not be much to Jaime but he sure is to her.

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    116. Ten Bears:
      firstone,

      “Jamie now knows he’s been played by Cersei for a long time.”
      _________Quick question – if anyone knows…

      Did Jaime ever know or learn that Cersei had been fornicating with his dweeb cousin Lancel?

      I don’t recall a scene in the show where that info dump specifically happens (though I could simply be forgetting, as I don’t watch show episodes over and over like I read/listen to the books). But in the books, Jaime is tormented by the knowledge that Cersei has slept not only with Lancel, but also with several other men she wanted to use as her tools. It preys on his mind. Google ‘…and Moon Boy for all I know’ for the lowdown.

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    117. Jon Snowed:
      Sorry I still don’t see any set-up at all. Who is Dany to Jamie? He has absolutely no relation to her.

      Agreed, totally – even if Dany does bear a grudge against Jaime (which the show has developed even less than her antagonism to Ned Stark or King Robert). There is a difference between ‘surprising’ and ‘arbitrary.’ Such a ‘twist’ would strike me as very arbitrary indeed: like some sleep-deprived scriptwriter’s brainwave that got tacked on at the end as some sort of narrative band-aid.

      We are down to the point where characters’ arcs need to be wound up in ways that are extremely meaningful to them personally. (Imagine what Wimsey world be saying right now!) Jaime has barely spared a thought for the Dragon Queen in 7 seasons. She’s not about to become his sudden focus in S8. Jaime doing something self-sacrificial for Bran, by contrast, would close his circle in an intuitively satisfying way. Or for Brienne, of course!

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    118. Firannion:
      … particularly if you can’t afford a car to get you safely from place to place?

      I realize that there is a language difference here, but this comes off as a bit condescending, and there are plenty of women in this group who won’t let it stand.

      I’d call it a cultural difference.

      In Europe it’s quite safe for women to take public transport. You don’t have to have a car. And what’s the implication? That you’re not safe in America unless you’re rich enough to afford a car? Huh?

      In Europe, cars are a bit of fun, but not necessary. Public transport is generally good and safe. That said, I have a car, I love driving my stick-shift thing, I’m a good driver even on icy roads. Am I more or less feminist because of that? Would I be more or less if I didn’t have the car? Huh? Is American identity so defined by car ownership? Are people living in America less deserving of citizenship if they don’t have a car? Are cars the be all and end all of being American?

      Yeah, I’ll accept “condescending” because I’m sick and tired of explaining our normal equal things to culturally overbearing American aggressive feminists, who willfully misunderstand our culture and try to impose their thin ideology on something much older and more deep-rooted in our countries. Trying to teach our grans to suck eggs.

      Men and women in my country always were fairly equal in our back-breaking work, and women’s rights were a natural part of our independence struggle. Women got full franchise in 1906 (11 years before independence). I don’t want some foreigner telling me we Finnish women did it “wrong” because it doesn’t fit the modern American feminist narrative. Just, leave us to do things our own way and pipe down.

      Anyway, sorry. Sorry for perhaps sounding too combative or aggressive over a thing that doesn’t even belong here. Let’s end this, as WotW is not the place for this debate.

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    119. Firannion,

      I agree. I think the only reason why Jaime has been kept alive this long must be related to Bran – his worst thing, his lowest point.

      Still, I cannot help but remember the putative dialogue Ten Bears posted here a while back.

      Bran: I saw you fucking your sister. You were beautiful.
      Jaime: That’s it?

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    120. talvikorppi: In Europe it’s quite safe for women to take public transport. You don’t have to have a car. And what’s the implication? That you’re not safe in America unless you’re rich enough to afford a car? Huh?

      Yes, that is precisely the implication. I’m delighted to hear that in Finland and other Western European countries, women don’t have to deal with this. I can’t imagine any American feminists telling you that “Finnish women are wrong.” We wish our culture were like that as well. But please don’t suggest that there is no compelling basis for “angry feminism” or the #metoo movement over here. It is very real, and a daily ordeal for many.

      I can’t tell you how many times over the years I have been grabbed/squeezed/goosed/flashed by strangers in the streets or on public transportation. Crowded subway cars are a nightmare, because there are guys who specialize in maneuvering behind standing women to grind against their butts (and if you confront them, they pretend that it was just the movement of the train). I was actually tackled on the street once and had to scratch the guy’s face with my keys to get him off me. In my penniless college years, I sometimes had to resort to hitchhiking to get from one town to another (because of nonexistent public transport), which led to some terrifying experiences, including a driver pulling a knife on me. And then of course there is the endless verbal harassment: the catcalls and animal noises from the construction workers when you’re just trying to walk to the bank or the deli on your lunch hour, minding your own business, dressed as “mannishly” as possible in an effort to discourage unwanted attention.

      Only when I was established enough in my career (like 40ish) to be able to afford a car was I able to become slightly less vigilant about my daily movements. (In terms of being a target, it also helps somewhat for a woman to have reached the “Age of Invisibility,” though I still believe that the abuse has more to do with exerting power over women than with raging hormones.) The car does not in any way make you a better person, and I don’t see where you’re reading that. It does, however, create a sort of private, protective shell that I acknowledge is a class privilege.

      Until #metoo, the response of law enforcement in towns dealing with waves of rapes was typically to advise women not to go anywhere alone, not to go to certain neighborhoods or venues at night, not to go to certain neighborhoods or venues ever, not to wear short skirts, not to drink alcohol… Always the onus was on the woman to restrict her behavior, the authorities never taking a stand that rape and sexual abuse were male behavioral problems that society would not tolerate. Finally, finally that attitude is starting to budge a little in America – but only because women are making a fuss.

      You’re right; this is not the best place for this discussion. But your use of “navel-gazing” made me realize that you weren’t getting it that the struggle on this side of the Pond is real, and not restricted by any means to celebrities.

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    121. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for February, but count on March.

      I’d take Jaime saving anybody…Dany or even a Stark girl, sure, but Bran or Brienne would be even better (if it had to be just one)…and I’m hoping for his (very likely) death to be in Brienne’s arms after fighting by her side. >3 Inga’s suggestions aren’t bad either. Oh, I absolutely hope that his heroic deeds will fill his blank pages (and ye gods, I do not find Cersei rational or likable in the least. Well, the only time I can feel moderately well-disposed toward her is when she too hates on someone else I hate. Or speaks a particularly good quote. But it’s only ever for a moment. xD)
      Also disagree on Jaime’s kingslaying having been dishonorable. I guess after Ned (& whomever else) refused to believe him, he assumed nobody else he told would either. (Agree w/ what Pigeon & Firstone said.)

      Loved the wedding pics. Yes, Sophie & Maisie stood out (not in the best way), though I did love Sophie’s ensemble and Maisie’s accessories…for a different occasion, however. It was great to see Richard (kilt! <3), Liam (nice tie!), John, Conleth, Ben, and the rest who were able to attend. 🙂

      I also wholly concur with Talvikorppi re: the #metoo thing…maybe because I, an American woman, don't relate to it. I don't think I know anyone who's been harassed or abused or attacked; I've really only heard/read about it online, and certainly haven't felt harassed. I've gotten the occasional whistle/catcall/whatever, but that doesn't bother me. I take it as flattery and react semi-sarcastically if at all.
      Yes, most of us in the suburbs or countryside have licenses and personal vehicles (in my northeastern region, anyway); getting your first car is something of a milestone at age 16…but of course not everyone does, and those who don't typically use public transport or ask people to drive them. Or bike/walk if they can.

      Carice is a hoot!! I love her so much. But I wouldn't run from that silver fox, either. ;}

      And fvck Olly, indeed. xD

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    122. talvikorppi:
      Firannion,

      I agree. I think the only reason why Jaime has been kept alive this long must be related to Bran – his worst thing, his lowest point.

      Still, I cannot help but remember the putative dialogue Ten Bears posted here a while back.

      Bran: “I saw you f*cking your sister. You were so beautiful.”
      Jaime: “That’s it?”

      Thanks for the shout-out.😀

      • I recall there was a discussion going on about Jaime’s inevitable awkward meet-up with Bran, and whether Jaime would apologize – assuming Bran regains his memory, or simply trips back in time to view what happened to him that day he “fell” from the tower.

      I think my parody of Bran’s anticipated dialogue was half in jest (from his weird comment to Sansa about “seeing” her on her wedding night) and half serious. Bran may have a Zen-like approach to having been pushed from the tower: just like he was always predestined to have to fry young Hodor’s brain, he may conclude that being thrown from the tower was a necessary step in fulfilling his destiny of becoming 3ER 2.0.

      • Now that we’re back on the subject of Bran, I am still trying to figure out what the hell the (original) 3ER was referring to that Bran “lost” that he will find, upon their first meeting in the cave in S4e10, “The Children.”

      Here’s the dialogue:

      Bran: You’re the three-eyed raven?

      3ER: I’ve been many things. Now I am what you see.

      Meera: My brother, he led us to you and now he…

      3ER: He knew what would happen. From the moment he left, he knew and he went anyway.

      Bran: How do you know?

      3ER: I’ve been watching you. All of you. All of your lives. With 1,000 eyes and one. Now you’ve come to me at last, Brandon Stark. Though the hour is late.

      Bran: I didn’t want anyone to die for me.

      3ER: He died so you could find what you have lost.

      Bran: You’re going to help me walk again?

      3ER: You will never walk again. But you will fly.

      —————–
      It’s been bugging me all this time. 3ER told Bran: “He [Jojen] died so you could find what you have lost.”

      If not his ability to walk, what did he lose? His car keys? And whatever it was why did Jojen die so he could find it?

      Any tinfoil theories are welcome. I’m flummoxed.

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    123. I gave a fistpump when I saw Jaime in simple garb on a black horse, on his way North. (Go check it. Jaime has always ridden a white horse – a dig at the “knight in shining armour on a white charger” trope).

      Or, perhaps preparing to join the nights watch himself, to put himself out of Cersei’s range. And ofc a final dagger in the heart of Tywin and Cersei (for that matter) making himself unavailable for the lordship of Casterley Rock, that honour then passing to Tyrion. Wouldn’t that rock her boat?

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    124. Catspaw Assassin: “… going to be a real drag for the audience because the Night King kills everyone in Westeros, invades Essos and kills everyone there, and in the most nightmarish twist of all, Trump gets reelected.”

      Nice one! The best comment I’ve seen so far. Thanks for making me chuckle 😀

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    125. Firannion,

      Thank you, Firannion, for such a measured response to my rant.

      I understand your point, but do you understand mine about imposing US sensibilities on the rest of the world? That’s cultural imperialism.

      GoT is shown in about 170 countries. It’s hugely popular around the world, HBO’s most popular show ever. Because it isn’t explicitly American, it’s pseudo European medieval, but “fairytale” enough that all kinds of places can feel it’s about us.

      Yeah, I know about unweanted attention, but just deal with it. I once got catcalls and whistles from builders in Lissabon. “Muito branco, muito branco!” (I have very fair skin, don’t tan. Also blond hair). *wiggle bum* *give finger* “Muito branco, holiday. *point finger* muito negro, trabhalha, hahaha!”

      My Portuguese wasn’t very good at the time but I got my point across. They probably grumbled afterwards about the muito branco bitch who laughed at them and their macho thing. Shrug.

      But yeah, to be a practical feminist, you need to put up with a lot of industrial language, and not be too shy about it, or be all outraged and snowflakey. I love swerry words, not use them often but when I do, it’s for real.

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    126. Ten Bears,

      I’ve read lots of theories on what Bran “lost” on other sites. Some say he lost his purpose and found it as the 3ER.. I don’t think that’s it. I didn’t read this part but I’m thinking he was the original Bran the builder and he was partly to blame for man becoming so much of a threat to the Children of the Forest (who then created the WW’s to protect themselves) Maybe Bran will be able to correct his mistake (whatever that was) and get back the world that he lost somehow. The COTF were protecting Bran, so they must have believed he could help them get back what was lost…… I think they want their forest (and world) back and for the great war to end. I don’t think there are many COTF left after the Door episode though…hopefully there are more COTF hiding out somewhere and Bran will help bring an end to the great war and peace will return to the forest as the ice recedes and new trees begin to grow.. just a little tinfoil.

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    127. • Now that we’re back on the subject of Bran, I am still trying to figure out what the hell the (original) 3ER was referring to that Bran “lost” that he will find, upon their first meeting in the cave in S4e10, “The Children.”

      Here’s the dialogue:

      Bran: I didn’t want anyone to die for me.

      3ER: He died so you could find what you have lost.

      Bran: You’re going to help me walk again?

      3ER: You will never walk again. But you will fly.

      —————–
      It’s been bugging me all this time. 3ER told Bran: “He [Jojen] died so you could find what you have lost.”

      If not his ability to walk, what did he lose? His car keys? And whatever it was why did Jojen die so he could find it?

      Any tinfoil theories are welcome. I’m flummoxed.

      Knowledge. How Robert’s Rebellion really began. How the White Walkers came to exist. How to end the Long Night.

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    128. Tron79:
      Ten Bears,

      I’ve read lots of theories on what Bran “lost” on other sites. Some say he lost his purpose and found it as the 3ER..I don’t think that’s it.I didn’t read this part but I’m thinking he was the original Bran the builder and he was partly to blame for man becoming so much of a threat to the Children of the Forest (who then created the WW’s to protect themselves) Maybe Bran will be able to correct his mistake (whatever that was) and get back the world that he lost somehow.The COTF were protecting Bran, so they must have believed he could help them get back what was lost…… I think they want their forest (and world) back and for the great war to end.I don’t think there are many COTF left after the Door episode though…hopefully there are more COTF hiding out somewhere and Bran will help bring an end to the great war and peace will return to the forest as the ice recedes and new trees begin to grow.. just a little tinfoil.

      I think that he lost his physical connection to his astral (in his dreams after the fall the crow is constantly bugging him to fly) I think when he gets that back he will actually be able to access these visions that he has and enter them and alter them in a physical way. He can enter them already, and he can almost alter them, Ned heard his call, but he is no where near mastering it yet.

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    129. The conclusion of that scenario will be that he eventually goes back in time to when the children of the forest created the night king and shows them a different way to resolve their issues

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    130. Unrelated but I just saw Charlotte Hope on an Endeavour episode tonight (finally got it in Canada) and she looks fine, her head is intact and everything. 😜

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    131. Jon Snowed:
      Sorry I still don’t see any set-up at all. Who is Dany to Jamie? He has absolutely no relation to her.

      Ummm… He’s infamous for having killed her father?

      (Justifiably, but still.)

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    132. Yes but how would saving Dany redeeem Jamie in any way? He has no relationship with her. Are you suggesting that saving Dany would be redemption for killing her father (a just act in reality as he was about to murder tens of thousands). I’m not shooting an anti-Dany angle here just don’t see how this would work at all from a story telling perspective.

      Compare with Bran, Brienne, Sansa, Arya where this is clear set-up for redemption and tragedy.

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    133. talvikorppi,

      It’s one thing to learn how to deal with catcalling.

      It’s something else entirely to have a man with whom you’ve ended a relationship, who claims he *loves* you, break into your home while you’re at work and rape you when you get home, and then be told by the police, when they arrive, that they can’t arrest him because you’re not bruised and there’s no physical evidence of a struggle.

      That happened to me, almost 30 years ago.

      That’s where #metoo comes from.

      Catcalling may seem harmless, but in the context of American history, what makes it *not* so is the fact that it is the sole “right” of the heterosexual white male. A gay man who catcalls a man might be, and has been, beaten or killed. A black man who catcalls—or is even *accused* of catcalling—a white woman might be, and has been, lynched (Exhibit A: 14-year-old Emmett Till, 1954). A woman who catcalls a man is a slut, a whore, “asking for it”… including gang rape because “she led them on.”

      Cultural context is everything. Yes, Americans tend to be shitheads when it comes to imperialism in all its forms, including cultural imperialism. But our collective rising against certain forms of long-accepted behavior, including things that seem innocent or innocuous on the surface, comes from historic experiences that are, as you yourself write, different from yours.

      /end rant

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    134. Jon Snowed,

      Oh, I don’t think Jamie would be “redeemed” by saving Dany (it would be a stretch, story-arc-wise), but there’s certainly enough backstory between them for at least one priceless verbal exchange, wouldn’t you say?

      I agree with you about Brienne and the Starks, and have been love ok’ing forward to the Jamie/Bran reunion for a looonnnggg time. 🙂

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    135. *looking

      (autocorrect on my phone doing weird shit again, because it’s after midnight and it’s turned back into a rodent)

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    136. “Isabela: I love boots. Tall, supple leather boots. The smell of Antivan leather. What? Oh – sorry, were you talking? ”

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    137. Leuf: Knowledge.How Robert’s Rebellion really began.How the White Walkers came to exist.How to end the Long Night.

      But he didn’t have the knowledge to lose it in the first place. The knowledge and abilities are something new, that he never had.

      What we know for sure is that Bran’s lost is his innocence and many of his family members. But I think neither will be relevant.

      Ten Bears:
      —————–
      It’s been bugging me all this time. 3ER told Bran: “He [Jojen] died so you could find what you have lost.”

      If not his ability to walk, what did he lose? His car keys? And whatever it was why did Jojen die so he could find it?
      Any tinfoil theories are welcome. I’m flummoxed.

      So the first thing that Bran can think that he lost was his ability to walk. 3YR says he’ll fly, but again I don’t think that’s what he meant when he said ‘you’ll find what you’ve lost’.
      I have tinfoiled on the matter lots of times but I haven’t come up with something entirely plausible. But I always come to tinfoil about two things: one, how Hodor became Hodor which is a ‘time paradox’, and secondly Bran shouted at young Ned when he was seeing the past, and Ned heard him. I think that these are important clues that may be connected to the answer to this.

      What I think is that there may be a twist in the story – if what happens now has affected something in the past, perhaps it has happened again, but has influenced far more important things than just one person. Or those clues were only meant to show us that Bran can control minds, whether now, or in the past.

      Bran’s arc to me is the most puzzling of all – first of all, why him? What was so special and so important about him that 3eyedR chose him to give all that knowledge and abilities? Why not Jojen or someone else?

      We know the ‘why’s’ for all of the other main characters, why they play an important role and etc. But that has not been established for Bran – and I think it was deliberate, because the answer to that might give away the entire endgame. (tinfoil off for today! 😀 )

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    138. On a slightly different note Lena Headey appeared in the latest season of Bear Grylls. I don’t usually watch the show but Bear asks Lena what is the worst way Cersei has killed someone and Lena replies “that is still to come” to which Bear replies serious and Lena confirms “yes but she doesn’t do her own dirty work”. Not sure if this is a S8 spoiler or not but interesting comment if so.

      Depending upon filming this could be from S7 but as this is airing now I’d guess it’s more S8, if so, who could Cersei kill?

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    139. SiriuslyStark
      Bran’s arc to me is the most puzzling of all – first of all, why him? What was so special and so important about him that 3eyedR chose him to give all that knowledge and abilities? Why not Jojen or someone else?

      We know the ‘why’s’ for all of the other main characters, why they play an important role and etc. But that has not been established for Bran – and I think it was deliberate, because the answer to that might give away the entire endgame. (tinfoil off for today! 😀 )

      It would have been more logic if it had been Jon.

      Book spoiler

      I don’t know if you’ve read the books, but in the books the 3 Eyed Raven is Brynden Rivers. He was a Targaryen bastard who had been legitimised. His mother was a Blackwood, they are like the Starks, descended from The First Men. He is just like Jon a mix of Targaryen father and a First Men mother.

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    140. By the way going back to my earlier comment on Lena Headey appearing in the new series of Bear Grylls. At the end she confirms she is filming season 8 during this feature, she also opens up about her relationship with the press, secracy on GOT, her family and comes across really well.

      Anyway seems Cersei will likely kill someone (or be responsible for it in S8), any guesses as to who? Varys, Theon, Euron or potentialy Dany the most obvious candidates I would have thought.

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    141. Jon Snowed,

      Hm.. that’s an intriguing quote from Lena regarding Cersei in season 8. I was thinking about this the other day, and despite all the horrible things she’s done, the closest she’s come to killing a beloved character is wiping out House Tyrell. And killing Margaery in the Sept explosion was a bit tempered because a lot of people were almost rooting for Cersei in that moment to kill High Sparrow. Olenna was kind of sad, but far from being a gut-punch.

      As for who it could be, my initial thought was Jamie as I’m sticking with my original prediction that they kill each other. But then she says that she doesn’t do the deed herself, so that has to mean someone else..? Varys is definitely a possibility. Dany.. wow, that would be.. nuts! Maybe someone from team Dany, like Missandei? Also, given some earlier speculation, Brienne could be another candidate.

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    142. That was my immediate reaction however we could potentially extend it to Qyburn, Wildfire, Golden Company or Euron potentially. It was said sincerely though so it looks like she will take someone out before her death and I wouldn’t expect it to be Jamie.

      If anyone is interested in watching the episode (Lena comes across really well and talks about thrones several times including some horrible experiences with the media) it’s currently available on Sky Anytime here in the UK and I guess by extension to other EU countries.

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    143. Jon Snowed: Bear asks Lena what is the worst way Cersei has killed someone and Lena replies “that is still to come” to which Bear replies serious and Lena confirms “yes but she doesn’t do her own dirty work”.

      I find it difficult to imagine a crueler way to kill someone than handing Septa Unella over to be Frankengregor’s plaything, no holds barred. At least death by wildfire was quick. Making Ellaria starve to death while watching her daughter’s body rot comes in a close second, in my view.

      Not sure I can handle seeing something worse happen, especially to a character we love. I wouldn’t mind so much if Cersei discards Euron in a cold way, but I have a feeling that it’s going to be something much less palatable. If she murders Brienne, I’m going to lose my…composure.

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    144. Jon Snowed,

      Interesting. I’ll have to check that episode out when I get a chance. I don’t know when it was filmed, but I assume she was referring to season 8 and not how she took out the Sand Slugs in season 7.

        Quote  Reply

    145. Fully agree, and I immediately wondered if it was shot before S7 based upon what she does there but nope she confirms near the end that she is in the middle of filming S8 so her statement definitely relates to S8.

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    146. Firannion,

      I wonder if she’ll send someone North to try to assassinate Dany, Jon, etc if they defeat the AotD? She may try to repeat a ‘Red Wedding’-esque type of conspiracy to cut their leadership down without going into battle with them. Of course this only works if Dany and Jon’s forces win against the AotD first.

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    147. sure that Jamie will redeem himself. There are still a lot of pages in his books not filled in. As Joffrey stated in Season 4:”No great deeda for a 40 year old knight.”
      That page will be filled with a great deed taking Away a supernatural force, probably the ice dragon ( with Some help from Bronn) .

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    148. Inga,

      Yep. Or Quyburn perhaps? Especially if it ends up being someone we love, I would prefer Quyburn using poison or something as opposed to seeing them crushed or cleaved in twain..

      Firannion: I find it difficult to imagine a crueler way to kill someone than handing Septa Unella over to be Frankengregor’s plaything, no holds barred. At least death by wildfire was quick. Making Ellaria starve to death while watching her daughter’s body rot comes in a close second, in my view.

      Not sure I can handle seeing something worse happen, especially to a character we love. I wouldn’t mind so much if Cersei discards Euron in a cold way, but I have a feeling that it’s going to be something much less palatable. If she murders Brienne, I’m going to lose my…composure.

      True, Cersei has not exactly held back when it comes to dispatching her enemies. However, I interpreted Lena’s comment more along the lines of the “who” as opposed to the “how”. Which makes me a tad.. concerned..

      Cersei is definitely not going down without a fight, that’s clear at least.

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    149. Firannion: Making Ellaria starve to death while watching her daughter’s body rot

      The thing is that she wasn’t going to allow her to starve to death, which considering the circumstances is just as cruel. Since they essentially closed the book on Ellaria and her involvement in the story I don’t suppose the chances of her being saved from the dungeons are any greater of a possibility than Unella. In both cases Cersei said she was going to keep them alive to suffer as long as possible. It would be surprising for Unella to survive but Ellaria hasn’t been detained for nearly as long.

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    150. ygritte:

      OT but just wanted to say I was very happy seeing Rose and Kit’s wedding pics from yesterday. She looked radiant, beautiful classy dress and Kit of course very handsome still has his hair. People are commenting on poor choice of Sophie attire. Madden was there in kilt looking very nice as well 🙂

      All of this! There’s a video of them leaving the church in a hail of rice or whatever it was the guests threw. It’s so cute and they’re so happy – makes me smile every time I see it.

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    151. Pigeon:
      Orrrrrr….Lena could be BSing as she knows people will be paying attention. It wouldn’t be the first time.

      True enough! A certain photo of a heart-shaped ring of stones comes to mind…

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    152. Wolfish:
      SiriuslyStark,

      It hasn’t been emphasized nearly as much on the show as in the books, but for starters, both the 3ER and Bran are wargs and greenseers, which is extremely rare.

      Yes and I haven’t read the books so my source is mainly the show🙂 but what makes bran special practically is that he’s a skinchanger as well – a greensheer a warg and a skinchanger. But my q was more abstract – what makes Bran so special in the story – why was he chosen and what’s his purpose? I doubt it is just to inform Jon of his parentage. 😉

      Chilli: It would have been more logic if it had been Jon.

      Book spoiler

      Jon in the show doesn’t have any special abilities like in the books – well at least so far! Thank you for that book reference it’s very inresting and I didn’t know that! 🙂

      ash:
      SiriuslyStark,

      Reallylove this post. Lots of ideas I hadn’t thought of that makes perfect sense

      Thank you, Ash! 😊

      Pigeon:
      Orrrrrr….Lena could be BSing as she knows people will be paying attention. It wouldn’t be the first time. 🙂

      God I hope she is because my mind wandered to a very nasty scenario and I can’t even handle the thought of that! There’s a certain baby hinted for next season – hands off Cercei don’t you even dare! 😡

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    153. I hear you but watching the episode her comments appear very genuine, it’s not a planned interview she is in the middle of the wilds of northern Spain camping out and talks very openly about her private life, her children, relationship with the media, working on GOT, breaking into acting, phobia of spiders etc. It seemed to me very much like she was answering honestly but also aware she could not be too specific.

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    154. Jon Snowed,

      Yeah, that seems like an odd thing to BS about. The Lady Stoneheart thing made sense as it was a reference to something a lot of fans wanted to see. Nicolai teasing Young Griff and the fAegon storyline also comes to mind.

      SiriuslyStark: God I hope she is because my mind wandered to a very nasty scenario and I can’t even handle the thought of that! There’s a certain baby hinted for next season – hands off Cercei don’t you even dare! 😡

      Oh god, don’t even..!

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    155. Jon Snowed:
      By the way going back to my earlier comment on Lena Headey appearing in the new series of Bear Grylls.At the end she confirms she is filming season 8 during this feature, she also opens up about her relationship with the press, secracy on GOT, her family and comes across really well.

      Anyway seems Cersei will likely kill someone (or be responsible for it in S8), any guesses as to who? Varys, Theon, Euron or potentialy Dany the most obvious candidates I would have thought.

      Oh, my prophetic soul. Cersei is already paranoid. She visits excessive punishment only on her greatest perceived threats/enemies. Who does she hate and fear most? Perhaps Tyrion, but they seemed to come to an accommodation in 7.07. It’s probably a candidate for Younger More Beautiful Queen. Dany is obvious, but she’s very well protected. But another is just a Little Dove for whom distance is the greatest protection. How many times last season did Sansa say she was safe in Winterfell? She told Jon Cersei always finds a way to murder her enemies. She told Brienne that if Cersei Lannister wanted her she’d have to come and get her. She told Arya she had hundreds of men in Winterfell loyal to her, and Arya said, “They’re not here now.” I find these cumulatively foreboding. It’s not yet clear if it’s the AotD or Golden Company assaulting Winterfell, but if it’s the latter, Sansa is bound to be a target. I hate to think Cersei would inflict some horrific death on anyone, but most of all a Stark.

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    156. Stark Raven’ Rad: She visits excessive punishment only on her greatest perceived threats/enemies. Who does she hate and fear most?How many times last season did Sansa say she was safe in Winterfell? She told Jon Cersei always finds a way to murder her enemies. She told Brienne that if Cersei Lannister wanted her she’d have to come and get her. She told Arya she had hundreds of men in Winterfell loyal to her, and Arya said, “They’re not here now.” I find these cumulatively foreboding.

      I agree with what you say except I don’t think that it will be Sansa.
      If Varys takes out Qyburn (which I expect him to do) and regains control of all his little birds, then he will be Cersei’s biggest threat. At that point he will basically own Kings landing once more. And therefore, that would answer the other question ‘how Varys meets his end.’ The Mountain.

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    157. SiriuslyStark,

      As many others do, I suspect the third “holy shit” moment, which reputedly will happen at or near the end, involves Bran. This being GoT, though, all bets are off… 😉

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    158. Stark Raven’ Rad,

      And when Tycho said the Iron Bank had used the Golden Company to collect debts, Cersei did say cryptically that she’d like to use them to get back something that belonged to her. One of those things, she believes, is Sansa’s head.

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    159. Interesting prediction about Varys, I agree he could be a great candidate to take out Qyburn but I am assuming if Varys is to die then it will be towards the early part of the story and presumably for backing Jon’s claim to the throne and turning on Dany. If so, wouldn’t that happen before Kings Landing is taken (again assuming it is).

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    160. Jon Snowed,

      That is possibly so if it happens the way that you are suggesting. But I am imagining that all the major players in dany’s camp, among them Tyrion, grey worm, Davos, the hound, and all the others are each given their own major task to complete, and varys task is to get that mud gate open via his little birds. If it were to happen that way I would imagine that being about 3/4 of the way through season 8.

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    161. I guess we are missing totally the context on what will happen in Kings Landing other than

      there will be a battle of some sorts and that we know Jon and Cersei will both be in the City in one of the other episodes

      based upon articles posted by Watchers. So many different outcomes and ways it could all go down at this point.

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    162. the unburdened:
      Jon Snowed,

      That is possibly so if it happens the way that you are suggesting. But I am imagining that all the major players in dany’s camp, among them Tyrion, grey worm, Davos, the hound, and all the others are each given their own major task to complete, and varys task is to get that mud gate open via his little birds. If it were to happen that way I would imagine that being about 3/4 of the way through season 8.

      Good thought.
      I’m also assuming Varys’ days are numbered (*sob*), but to me, the statement that “you have to die here” suggested a death in the process of *doing* something significant, rather than simply being punished with death. That could happen, though my hopes are against it. I’d like for him to kill Qyburn…x-) Definitely would not like the potential consequences of that, though…>.<

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    163. Wolfish:
      SiriuslyStark,

      As many others do, I suspect the third “holy shit” moment, which reputedly will happen at or near the end, involves Bran. This being GoT, though, all bets are off… 😉

      Definitely so! 😀

      Shelle: Good thought.
      I’m also assuming Varys’ days are numbered (*sob*), but to me, the statement that “you have to die here” suggested a death in the process of *doing* something significant, rather than simply being punished with death.

      That’s what I think too, both about Varys and Mel – and generally at this point of the story any death that happens whether of a main character or a secondary, has to have a specific practical purpose for the plot and bring closure and fullfillment in the character’s arc; it must serve the story and its endgame.

      That said, I haven’t any specific ideas about the role of Varys in this, but I suspect (from what we know of him until now: he’s smart and has his way of making things happen – while his main concern is what’s best for the people/which ruler is best for the people/his loyalty is with the people) whatever he does will serve as a key that unlocks a possibility in the plot helping or forcing other characters to move in the direction they need to go.

      Jon Snowed:
      I guess we are missing totally the context on what will happen in Kings Landing other than…

      based upon articles posted by Watchers.So many different outcomes and ways it could all go down at this point.

      I’ve been puzzling over this too (what’s he doing there and when does that happen) – indeed this can play out in so many different ways and under so many different contexts that I can’t even begin to speculate.

      I think that this year, the more tidbits we get the more confusing things become, given that we have ‘two’ baddies each with means to destroy (either by wildfire, or with undead dragon) and I don’t know if the writers will go for the full blown wights-NK KL attack, (which is the one I prefer) or for one more mundane battle of humans for KL.

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    164. I think the first episode of season 8 (Family Reunion) will premiere Sunday May 12th 2019 and the final episode of Game of thrones will be Sunday June 16th 2019

      Jamie Lannister’s heroic act which will written in the Book of Books will be saving Daenerys daughter who’s name is Visenya Targaryen… the princess that was promised.. from the Night King… aka: death.

      Daenerys statement about herself is a foreshadowing about her daughter… Visenya Targaryen is the only remaining Targaryen and She will Rule the Seven Kingdoms.

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    165. I saw something written by one of the crew which suggests a March premiere and conclusion in April.

      That also fits with what Kim Renfro and James Hibbard have hinted/reported.

        Quote  Reply

    166. 22 minutes later….. Now I think Jamie Lannister heroic act will be saving Queen Daenerys Targaryen’s daughter (Visenya Targaryen) from being killed by Queen Cersei Lannister and

      after saving Daenery’s daughter (Visenya Targaryen) life…

      Jamie Lannister will kill Queen Cersei Lannister.

        Quote  Reply

    167. Jon Snowed: I saw something written by one of the crew which suggests a March premiere and conclusion in April.

      That also fits with what Kim Renfro and James Hibbard have hinted/reported.

      That would please me (not as much as Jan/Feb obviously, but it would. ;D)

      As would seeing Jaime save Dany’s child and kill Cersei. ;p

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