New Game of Thrones Season 5 Teaser

A brand new teaser has surfaced on the official Game of Thrones YouTube channel.

This teaser is essentially a condensed version of the “The Wheel” trailer, but there is a small number of brand new shots, including some action from Hardhome, Meereen and Dorne.

With just over two weeks until the season premiere, do you think it likely that we will get another full-length trailer?

197 responses

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    1. I don’t think we get another full length trailer and likely won’t get anything more than this teaser shows – the main shots we’ve already seen with a few supplemental shots thrown in. But I’ll take them all!

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    2. That look on Jaime’s face… could it be a dornish a assassin or did Bronn just reveal a certain secret about Cercei? I would go with the latter since it looks like he’s just walking normally then turns back like he heard something he didn’t like.
      Anyway that new shot at hardome with Jon also looks cool, I bet that episode will be a horror show, as they’ve been saying

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    3. No stannis? I’m starting to get worry now, they will not treat stan… I’m just kidding!! ya’ll though I have become one of those.
      I can’t wait for the show to start!!!!

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    4. Greenjones:
      PinkLipstick,

      In a good or a bad way?

      Bad way in my eyes, I think NCW looked every bit I imagined Jaime would look in season 1, 2 and 3, but Season 4 destroyed what image I had of him, and this just kicks it to the curb.. -.-

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    5. Ser Oromis Locke: Bad way in my eyes, I think NCW looked every bit I imagined Jaime would look in season 1, 2 and 3, but Season 4 destroyed what image I had of him, and this just kicks it to the curb.. -.-

      Incase you have not forgotten. The King Slayer(I call him what he is) is supposed to be shaved head at this point on the books. It did not happen in the show and that’s fine with me.

      Is there no one else?!?

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    6. No way are we getting another full length trailer – HBO has decided to promo with alternative methods this season. Not sinking a lot into marketing this time.

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    7. What if the d n d make stannis bend the knee to john sometime down the road before wow comes out? This website would be crazy I never visited this website as the show is on .(last season I was unsullied ) but I imagine that the season finale was prolly crazy on here

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    8. I like Jaime’s season 4/5 haircut for the record. No problems here!
      Glad to see the extra few seconds of fighting- hoping those fight scenes in Dorne live up to the hype!

      PS- Ser Jorah is in beast mode, daaaaaayum!

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    9. I’m
      Bored here’s my season 5 predictions ” over qualified master ”

      1. Sansa will find evidence of ice dragons in the winter fell crypts . 2. Areo hotah kills Bronn in first half of season
      3.lady stoneheart YG and euron will all make a small appearance this season. 4. It will be revealed that Jon snow will be lyanna and rhaegors son , mayb , 5. Tyrion will have some connection with dragons that will parrellel his book knowledge and further set up the idea that Tyrion is also a tArgaryoin ( although this will happen at the end of the story , it will be foreshadowed this season )

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    10. Looks like wights can climb, and that one harpy is looking especially menacing. This is definitely going to be the spooky season.

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    11. Myranda looks bored & frustrated during Ramsay’s lovemaking. I wonder if she’s just found out Ramsay is to be married? She has probably harbored a fantasy about becoming his bride and ruling the North. I fear for Sansa – we all remember the pleasure Myranda took watching Theon get castrated and the girl getting mauled to death by dogs. She’s a depraved monster, a pure psychopath. Perhaps she’ll even turn on Ramsay as Schae did to Tyrion.

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    12. Charles M,

      I think that’s it *exactly.* Especially since the show is departing more and more from the books, and even beginning to race ahead “and spoil the source material!) along the way.

      Grand maester giz:
      I’m
      Bored here’s my season 5 predictions ” over qualified master ”

      1. Sansa will find evidence of ice dragons in the winter fell crypts . 2. Areo hotah kills Bronn in first half of season
      3.lady stoneheart YG and euron will all make a small appearance this season. 4. It will be revealed that Jon snow will be lyanna and rhaegors son , mayb , 5. Tyrion will have some connection with dragons that will parrellel his book knowledge and further set up the idea that Tyrion is also a tArgaryoin ( although this will happen at the end of the story , it will be foreshadowed this season )

      If there’s no wedding at

      Winterfell, (and god it’s a relief not to have to fear Sansa taking Jeyne’s place,) then that would be a really REALLY good use of Sansa this season, since yeah I think they do want to get the Big Reveal out about Jon at the end of Season Five so they can spend the next two seasons dealing with the fallout from that bombshell. And I have my own theory for why Sansa might be the one they want learning the truth first on the show-Hint it involves the YMBQ.

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    13. It will be funny if Ramsay and Myranda are set up this season to mirror Robb and Talisa, with Ramsay telling her, “I don’t want to marry the Stark girl!”. They are certainly the twisted version of those star crossed lovers!

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    14. It will be so exciting to see Natalie Dormer take center stage this season. I thought The Tudors was pretty shit but I still remember her Anne Boleyn fondly. I know what she’s capable of as an actress and it will be pure pleasure to see her sparring with Cersei and going postal on the bitch after suppressing it all this time.

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    15. 90909,

      What are they supposed to show? Her material is the most spoilery. I don’t know why Arya fans, which I am one of, feel she is so underutilized. She has the 4th most screen time in the show’s history, behind only Jon,Tyrion, and Dany.

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    16. People complaining about Arya’s potential lack of screentime are pretty damned insensitive, especially considering her on screen brother has been removed entirely from this season. Be thankful she’s there at all because to the showrunners apparently her training is more important than Bran’s – I don’t get that at all, but there it is.

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    17. 90909:
      I guess Arya isn’t appearing much this season. Barely any material in the promos and teasers.

      I can say the same for Stannis but we all know Stannis will have a huge role this season. Arya will play a big part but they will not spoil what she’s gonna do or whose she is gonna be with. It’s too juicy.

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    18. Beacon: Be thankful she’s there at all because to the showrunners apparently her training is more important than Bran’s

      GRRM apparently thinks that too, since Arya has 5 training chapters in the last two books, and Bran has 1.

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    19. Yivo: GRRM apparently thinks that too, since Arya has 5 training chapters in the last two books, and Bran has 1.

      I was about to post the same but in a more assholish way. Thank you 🙂

      Also… BOOM!!!!

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    20. King Stannis,
      Also, he had long curly hair in the books. Indeed, he should look like a bad 1970’s caricature of a gay man.

      Beacon: we all remember the pleasure Myranda took watching Theon get castrated

      Actually, I don’t think that we saw her watching that. So, no, we do not all remember it!

      Winnie: and god it’s a relief not to have to fear Sansa taking Jeyne’s place,

      gads: had I ever suspected that for a moment, then it would be a relief!

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    21. These trailers are starting to get boring because they’re basically showing the same stuff just adding an extra scene or two, but I have to agree that it’s hard for them to show stuff for this season without spoiling it for the audience :/

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    22. Ozymandias,

      He looked like a douche with long hair. He basically looked just like he shouldve looked like a cocky SOB. Then he looked savage for a while and now he looks like he wants to be the good guy. Im more annoyed by Jon Snows hair who has curly hair that looks like its styled everyday while manning the wall unless Aemon is a hair stylist.

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    23. The only action scenes this year are going to be whatever theyve shown so far on trailers: Jon vs wildlings action, Meereen revolt in arena, some fighting in Dorne.

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    24. Ozymandias,

      LOL! Personally, I think one reason they’re going for shorter hair on Jon this season isn’t to make him look more ‘adult’ and less teen pretty boy….

      I do wonder though, of if/when he’s Reborn, if any of his true paternal genes will start manifesting themselves in his appearance; like maybe some white locks amid the black.

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    25. Voice of Reason,

      I think we’ll get the Battle of Winterfell this season too. They’re not gonna just do the build-up to that through Season Five, then save the climax itself for Season 6 like the books and I expect that to be one of the show’s ‘spoiler,’ including the casualty count for whoever doesn’t survive.

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    26. Whaaaa? This is just a shortened version of the main trailer, to fit in 30 second commercial spots.

      Haircut complaints again…FYI

      1. Jaime’s hair was cut because of lice, etc.
      2. Notice all King’s Guard have a hair cut.
      3. A physical manifestation of Jaime 2.0

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    27. Regarding the Sansa-as-bride-of-Ramsey speculation:

      There was an update yesterday to recapped.com, that strange spoiler site that seemingly uses its industry sources solely to update pervs on the latest upcoming nudity/sex on TV. Unlike the other GOT “rumours”, this one has a specific episode attached, stating that Gilly and Sam have sex in episode 507.

      If this is legitimate (and their past spoilers for GOT were), then this would possibly bolster their first rumour, that Sansa gets married and loses her virginity this season.

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    28. Sean C.,

      Not a whole lot of use though, since by the time we can see episode 7 to confirm what happens with Sam, we’ll already know what the season’s Winterfell plot is.

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    29. Winnie:
      Ozymandias,

      LOL!Personally, I think one reason they’regoing for shorter hair on Jon this season isn’t to make him look more ‘adult’ and less teen pretty boy….

      Doesn’t Jon have much longer hair this season?

      Jaime looks fine with both long and short hair. The bastard’s simply handsome as fuck.

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    30. The whole ‘wheel’ thing is annoying. This ‘wheel’ has only been spinning for a couple of years in GoT time. She speaks as if it’s been like that for hundred of years! Does she forget it was wall to wall Targs before Robert took the throne! Now that’s a wheel that needed smashing!
      Don’t think we’ll be seeing anymore trailers as excitement is already at it’s peak and, to be honest, I’d rather them leave everything else for the show as they’ve already revealed quite a bit.

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    31. Sean C.,

      Well… If that really happens in episode 7, I think

      Sam will be well away from Castle Black at the time. No way in hell do they bang near any other Night’s Watchman. So maybe Sam does go to Oldtown (and on the way there to Braavos, since John Bradley says Sam meets a character we wouldn’t expect him to meet, which sounds a lot like Arya). It also strengthens the theory that Aemon’s “kill the boy” speech will happen on his death bed (since Sam would only leave Castle Black after Aemon dies, and that would have to be at least an episode or two before Sam and Gilly bang).

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    32. TheTouchOfFrost:
      The whole ‘wheel’ thing is annoying. This ‘wheel’ has only been spinning for a couple of years in GoT time. She speaks as if it’s been like that for hundred of years! Does she forget it was wall to wall Targs before Robert took the throne! Now that’s a wheel that needed smashing!Don’t think we’ll be seeing anymore trailers as excitement is already at it’s peak and, to be honest, I’d rather them leave everything else for the show as they’ve already revealed quite a bit.

      Not to mention if you look at the Targaryen dynasty’s history they were killing each other and starting wars practically every other week. FOUR Blackfyre rebellions, before that the Dance of the Dragons, and let’s not get started on Aegon the Unworthy and Maegaor the Cruel.

      And at this point SeanC there’s really no telling what Sansa’s storyline is gonna be this season, (other than it involves the Crypts,) so I for one am not going to worry. By episode seven we’ll have a good idea what’s happening there anyway.

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    33. It’s upsetting to see how unpopular Bran Stark is with the audience. I wonder if it has something to do with Isaac entering puberty. The connection to the character has been lost.

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    34. Sean C.,

      If the show does plan to

      marry Sansa to Ramsay

      we will know well before episode 7 so this new rumor doesn’t bolster any previous rumor. Your right though, the website doesn’t just make stuff up, both these “rumors” are going to happen.

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    35. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Don’t forget… Dany still have the residue of youth in her (especially in the books). The only thing she knows of Westeros and her family are these glorious stories Viserys planted in her head from when she was very young.

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    36. Beacon,

      Yes, this is one of the things that has genuinely bothered me as of late, in part because Bran is one of my favorite characters in the books. I know his story arc has drawn mixed reactions from readers, but I think it contains some of the most poignant writing in the series. GRRM is no sentimentalist, but some of the lines in Bran’s chapters are incredibly moving; while I think Martin’s true talents as an author are in the realms of characterization, narration, and universe creation, Bran’s chapters highlight his ability to produce beautiful prose.

      When news first came that Bran would not be appearing in Season 5, someone pointed out that the fact that the fandom was not up in arms (as they inevitably would be if Daenerys or Tyrion were not appearing) was a strong indication of just how little resonance Bran has with the audience. I think you’re onto something regarding how quickly Isaac has grown up; whatever their disinterest in his storyline, perhaps the audience felt a stronger connection to Bran when he was the youthful, vulnerable child we saw in Seasons 1 and 2. Personally, I think the most obvious indication that something has gone wrong with Bran’s storyline is the fact that the audience seemed more disappointed that Hodor would not be appearing! I love Hodor just as much as the next person, but it almost feels like the creative team has given in to the internet memes and the like which have placed Hodor center-stage when it should be Bran in the spotlight.

      I am not entirely sure what they could or should have done differently in adapting Bran’s storyline for the TV series; it may have been helpful to introduce the Reeds in Season 2, especially since their scenes in Season 3 felt rather disjointed and haphazard. Part of me wishes that they had kept Luwin alive at the end of Season 2 and had him “on the road” with Bran, Rickon, Osha, and Hodor throughout Season 3; I realize that it makes much more sense for Luwin to die when Winterfell is sacked (as in ACOK, given that he is so tied to Winterfell), but Donald Sumpter was so wonderful in that role, and his scenes with Isaac were always so moving. I wonder, if they had kept him part of the group throughout Season 3, whether fans would have felt more invested in Bran’s storyline (he could then have died at the end of Season 3, perhaps at the hands of a Wildling attack or an attack by Locke and the Boltons…this would have been the catalyst to prompt Bran and Rickon to separate at the end of Season 3).

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    37. Luka Nieto,

      Bran’s storyline also is filled with crazy dream sequences and its more internal. Harder to capture on TV. Thats the problem… To many great storylines, not enough time for the TV show to do justice to all of them. Plus many show watchers are averse to the more “fantasy” elements.

      This is why I get annoyed when people complain about lack of iron islanders or the modified Dorne, they can’t see how the show is already so stretched.

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    38. Beacon,

      I don’t think Isaac’s entering puberty is that big a factor. The problems with Bran’s story are partially a reflection of issues in the books — the molasses-slow plot advancement and sheer lack of incident, past a certain point (Bran’s story already feels like it’s slowing down dramatically in ASOS, whereas his sisters’ stories are continuing to ramp up; they all share a common problem in AFFC/ADWD); and partially a reflection of the show’s not being very good at handling the magical stuff that has generally been considered the most interesting parts of his stories (they don’t do much in the way of prophecies or visions, the few we do get are not interesting, and there’s never any real sense of dread or wonder to it).

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    39. Beacon,

      I think the only Stark no one likes is Sansa. The show did a pretty good change of character for her at the end of season 4 but as a fan of house Stark I think she is the dumbest and worst Stark.

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    40. Stark Fan,

      I get a bit depressed with this Sansa hate stuff. Yeah she was a bit of a dick in season/book one but what teenagers aren’t?

      Since then she’s basically been surviving in the most hostile place on the planet for her and to do that had to be meek and take it. I think she’s a great character and the least caricature out of them (so far). Yeah she’s not a King, an Assassin or a Wizard like her siblings but she’s done bloody well with the hand she’s had so far.

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    41. We got 4 trailers last season. The promo campaign for Season 5 has been exceptionally disappointing, mainly due to this “Wheel” monologue dominating the proceedings. I have been hoping for a trailer that focuses on the true war between Ice and Fire. Let’s not forget the endgame – Iron Thrones are irrelevant in the eye of the Great Other.

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    42. Galli: I have been hoping for a trailer that focuses on the true war between Ice and Fire. Let’s not forget the endgame – Iron Thrones are irrelevant in the eye of the Great Other.

      How could they focus on that when there’s so little material focusing on that, both in the books and in the show up to this point? And what there is of that I doubt they want to spoil in the trailers, given how mysterious it has been up to this point.

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    43. The thing is, Isaac exuded such a delicate innocence in those first two seasons. As a viewer, I felt compelled to protect Bran and wish him well through his struggles. Here we have the disadvantage of serial drama in motion – we can’t keep him as that appealing cherub. He has aged dramatically and yet the childlike mysticism of his character’s arc has been retained, so there is something not quite in sync. Isaac delivers his lines now like he doesn’t really believe in what he’s saying.

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    44. Beacon:
      It’s upsetting to see how unpopular Bran Stark is with the audience. I wonder if it has something to do with Isaac entering puberty. The connection to the character has been lost.

      I did like Bran from Seasons 1 through 3, but something in Season 4 was off-putting. I can’t figure out if it was his wig or Jojen forcing his decisions that made me hate his storyline and thusly losing interest in his character. Another possible reason for me was the omission of Osha. I admit I have only read AGoT so far so I do not know how it pans out in the books but Osha departing was a big big mistake. I’d much rather have had Osha following Bran than Meera. Osha was a great character, Meera not so much. I understand Jojen’s part in the storyline and that Osha had to take Rickon to the Umbers (I believe), but it should have been rewritten somehow.

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    45. ctid,

      Sansa as a character is well written and her storyline is not boring at all. I’m just not a fan of her as a Stark. Jon, Bran, Arya, Rickon all have to adapt to their surroundings to survive but she just waits around for things to go her way. Lets be honest without LF Sansa would still be playing stupid in kingslanding.

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    46. Stark Fan,

      “Playing stupid in King’s Landing”, as you call it, is precisely the way she adapted to survive. Honestly, she has adapted to her surroundings more times and better than most of her family (especially Ned, who couldn’t adapt at all.)

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    47. Stark Fan,

      Martin is all about flipping tropes and expectations. I think Sansa will be the power of the north when this is all over. The entire restoration of the stark clan will be in her hands, I guarantee you.

      And Sansa’s exact strength is her ability to adapt and bide her time.

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    48. In regards to the Bran thing, I know many show only viewers who in my opinion have lost complete connection with the Starks. They don’t dislike Bran and Sansa (some do) but they’re indifferent to them. And a lot forget about Rickon. They do like Arya and they do like Jon but most don’t identify Jon with the Starks anymore because of his name and story being so separate. Not much you can do, but this is just my opinion and I admit only my own sample size of people I know, but to me, in my sample size, the affects of the Red Wedding episode are long over. I’m not seeing any care anymore about revenge or anything like that. They’re indifferent to it and have moved on to other stories.

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    49. Lou: And a lot forget about Rickon.

      So do I, and I’m willing to bet loads of other book readers do too. It’s not like he was ever around much, and he’s been gone since book 2.

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    50. Luka Nieto: “Playing stupid in King’s Landing”, as you call it, is precisely the way she adapted to survive. Honestly, she has adapted to her surroundings more times and better than most of her family (especially Ned, who couldn’t adapt at all.)

      In biology, we refer to this a “preadapted.” After all, Sansa did not have to change at all to do this: she was just being herself. (Indeed, the show was wise to cut Sansa’s stupidity leading directly to her imprisonment: I doubt that even Maleficent Stark would have created a “Team Sansa.” As a character, Sansa did not show any evidence of actually changing until possibly her last chapter of Crows and the final episodes of the show. People credit her with surviving Kings Landing, but that is like crediting a house plant for survival: people didn’t kill her, so she lived.

      Indeed, I do find it a little unrealistic that someone so incurious, so unimaginative, and so unable to comprehend larger pictures or other people at the age of 14 could then change to someone who is curious, imaginative and comprehending in later life: like so many things, if you do not have these “talents” early, then you are not going to have them later. Now, one might say it’s not Sansa’s fault: her mother actively discouraged that behavior. However, 1) that didn’t stop Arya, and, 2) if you stamp that out of children, then they grow to become unthinking adults.

      One of Roose Bolton’s leeches: I find it very hard to forget him after that Wyman Manderly chapter.

      It was a Davos chapter: Manderly does not have any chapters.

      Also, as Davos is a minor protagonist, the stuff in his chapters is easiest to forget. He did not get many chapters, which means that there is little reinforcement of what he is doing, and it is the reinforcement that puts it solidly into readers minds. (Given that there still seem to be fans who are convinced that Jeyne Westerling has to be pregnant for there to be a “missing heir” to the North, even a lot of fans seem to have missed it! Either that, or they just did not understand what it meant. Oh, wait…. :D)

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    51. HelloThere: I think Sansa will be the power of the north when this is all over.

      We will have three Starks competing for this honor. We probably will have three primary contestants for the Iron Throne, too. The issue might well come down to, does Sansa throw her lot in with the right claimant for the Iron Throne?

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    52. Lou:
      In regards to the Bran thing, I know many show only viewers who in my opinion have lost complete connection with the Starks. They don’t dislike Bran and Sansa (some do) but they’re indifferent to them. And a lot forget about Rickon. They do like Arya and they do like Jon but most don’t identify Jon with the Starks anymore because of his name and story being so separate. Not much you can do, but this is just my opinion and I admit only my own sample size of people I know, but to me, in my sample size, the affects of the Red Wedding episode are long over. I’m not seeing any care anymore about revenge or anything like that. They’re indifferent to it and have moved on to other stories.

      I’m not saying you are wrong or trying to disprove your statement but as a show only viewer, inside I’m like “Sansa in Winterfell?!?!?!?! SHE NEEDS TO AVENGE the Red Wedding” while just as much I’m like “If Arya is training to be an assassin, I hope she’s coming for some Freys.” The Starks will always be my house of allegiance for as long one of them is at least living. The North Remembers as do I. As for Jon, I’m always hoping he’ll unite with the Starks somehow and furied TWICE when Jon and Bran’s paths crossed in S4 and S3 and Jon was unaware. I think the people you are referring to probably only watch Game of Thrones for the shock factor and engulf themselves on where it is at, but the loyal supporters of a House show watchers like myself still exist.

      Anyway I haven’t commented on this actual teaser, but based on what I know so far, this season is definitely going to be the make or break season. First trailer looked awful but the second one and this teaser are slaying so hard. So far IMO GoT has gotten better each year, I wonder if and can S5 continue the trend, I hope and believe so.

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    53. Lou,

      Is that even such a problem? Sure the show introduced us to the Starks first, but who knows what goes on in GRRM’s brain, and by way of consequence, D&D’s? Many, myself included, tend to think that because of this beginning, we will have a Stark-centric ending, but we could be wayyyy off for all we know. So many other engaging, interesting characters have popped up since…
      Besides, one of the Stark children is dead. If the whole book series was about them, a kind of Bildungsroman about them, how could one of them die? For me the Red Wedding partly destroyed that expectation/notion that we were following these kids through the story. That just seems was too straight-up and traditional a way of storytelling for GoT.

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    54. TheTouchOfFrost: The whole ‘wheel’ thing is annoying. This ‘wheel’ has only been spinning for a couple of years in GoT time. She speaks as if it’s been like that for hundred of years! Does she forget it was wall to wall Targs before Robert took the throne! Now that’s a wheel that needed smashing!

      So? If the show is to communicate that Daeny is somehow “better” than her competitors, then it has to show her as being “better” than her ancestors, too. A key point to that trailer was to show that both Daeny & Jon share a trait of actually caring about the welfare of people that are supposed to be beneath them or even enemies, and even to the ability to identify with those people. Sympathy and empathy are a potent package.

      This gets back to the issue of creating empathetic characters, not just sympathetic ones. This also has been a theme in GRRM’s works: good leaders do not just sympathize for their servants, good leaders actually attempt to empathize with them. Now, this does not guarantee them a “happy ending” by any means: but it does garner them popular support. So far, “popular support” never has meant anything: Westeros is so far from egalitarian that popular support + a penny buys part of a mug of ale. Daeny has created a system where popular support actually is meaning something: and it’s possible that she will take that from the East.

      Jon, in turn, clearly has popular support with many members of the Wall, and the show might be working to show begrudging popular support from the Wildlings: these, too, might be brought South.

      Now, it won’t be “democracy”: but they might push things as far along as say, Magna Carta!

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    55. Cathair: I think the people you are referring to probably only watch Game of Thrones for the shock factor and engulf themselves on where it is at, but the loyal supporters of a House show watchers like myself still exist.

      I am sure that there are a lot of “Team Stark” viewers: there certainly are a lot of “Team Stark” readers. (It took 15 years, but I finally have caught on to the lingo!) That written, had the show included some of the things that Sansa does in the books, then you might not be rooting for her quite so much.

      However, B&W and GRRM both have taken great pains to show that this is not “good” vs. “evil.” Instead, it’s about tactics and maneuvering. In both media, Sansa is being coached by someone who clearly is an expert at “the long con.” As the Klingons say, Revenge is a Dish Best Served Cold (and with Pork): look for Sansa to put on a wrinkly forehead for this.

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    56. Wimsey,

      I was very confused about that argument as well. Why would Dany have to be defined by the actions of her ancestors?

      Her claim to the throne is based on their rule, but I’m pretty sure even the laziest viewer has realized that a lot has been going on since that was the only thing to consider. Dany is not Viserys. The minute she got an army, she didn’t sail to Westeros. She went into war over the abolition of slavery, and when the prospect of sailing to Westeros was brought up, she decided to stay to ensure the freedom of her new subjects, and because she knows that nobody in Westeros has any reason to believe in her. She’s freeing slaves and taking the wishes of the people into consideration. That’s a big step up from her ancestors, I would say. Of course she’s not gonna install a democracy or something like that; that would be ridiculous. But she’s certainly changing the system where she currently is; there’s no reason to think she won’t do the same in Westeros, even though there are technically no ‘slaves.’

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    57. A Girl Will Obey,

      These are astute observations. This is not a Bildungsroman: two of the Stark children are not even protagonists in the books (although the show turned Robb into one).

      But we do know a little bit about what is in the heads of the storytellers. GRRM’s original plug for the series stressed that Arya, Bran and Jon (along with Daeny and Tyrion) would be the primary protagonists throughout the series. Sansa was to be a lesser one.

      So, the truth is (as it so often is) somewhere in between: this was never supposed to be “about the Starks” but the Starks also are not incidental figures. Restoring House Stark is now part of the Game: but only one part of it.

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    58. Pigeon,

      Why??

      Arya is probably on a path to self destruction… Plus she doesn’t seem like a politician. Bran will probably remain north of the wall, Jon isn’t a Stark,… So its either Sansa or Rickon

      People have such a one dimensional view of Sansa, and its like they have no foresight to see why she has been put in the situations that she has, or what purpose she will play in the story… lolol shes a dumb 12 year old girl… obviously Martin has something more planned for her character

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    59. HelloThere: Pigeon, Why??

      There is no reason to think that

      Arya is on a path to self-destruction. We’ve seen other people on the path she is choosing, and they do not seem at all self-destructive. To the contrary, she is on the path to self-empowerment. Sansa might be thinking for the first time ever, but she’s a long, long way from being at all self-empowered.

      Count me in Team Arya: Ninja Queen in the North! 😀

      HelloThere: shes a dumb 12 year old girl… obviously Martin has something more planned for her character

      Ah, but GRRM was very, very slow to provide any dynamic development for Sansa. Intelligent people are curious, imaginative and actively seeking to comprehend other people and bigger pictures. Sansa, on the other hand, is incurious, unimaginative and never even trying to see situations or other people’s thoughts beyond Sansa. It grew quite tedious to read Sansa’s “I’m so confused: why isn’t anything ever like in the songs?” even in her first chapter of Crows when she should have figured this out by her last chapter in Thrones.

      Now, at long last, Sansa might be moving in the direction Arya took years before (in book time, real time, hell, even in geological time at this point). Moreover, Arya has a “resume” of many, many chapters and scenes of being an active protagonist than whereas Sansa still has almost none: Arya creates situations, Sansa narrates them. That might be finally changing: but do not discredit Arya’s character for making analogous changes much earlier than Sansa did !

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    60. The major threats to Daenerys as far as I see it are Margaery and Sansa. She needs to formulate ways to get rid of them now. Cersei is no real threat – give her another rope and she’ll hang herself.

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    61. Wimsey:
      As a character, Sansa did not show any evidence of actually changing until possibly her last chapter of Crows and the final episodes of the show.People credit her with surviving Kings Landing, but that is like crediting a house plant for survival: people didn’t kill her, so she lived.

      That’s totally wrong. The difference between Sansa in AGOT and Sansa in any of the subsequent books is enormous; heck, she changes a lot even in her final chapters of AGOT. What she doesn’t do is what D&D have her do, suddenly flip a switch and become a Machiavel between chapters — the whole point of her time in KL is that being a prisoner and getting the crap kicked out of you all the time, and being utterly alone, is not suddenly going to turn you into a master politician. She learns to survive in King’s Landing (which involves much more than doing nothing); she really starts to learn the “game” when she gets a mentor, Littlefinger (a dubious one, of course).

      A Girl Will Obey:
      Besides, one of the Stark children is dead. If the whole book series was about them, a kind of Bildungsroman about them, how could one of them die?

      Because Robb isn’t one of the protagonists; hence, this isn’t his bildungsroman. That’s why we don’t have his POV. The three kids with POVs are the ones whose maturation is being told — albeit, because GRRM has proved almost entirely unable to advance the timeline as much as he wanted to, his planned “generational saga” will be hard-pressed to even get Arya to puberty.

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    62. Wimsey,

      Going over old ground but I think Dany sympathises but doesn’t empathise with her subjects. IMO she is starting to come over as a bit arrogant in the show and this ‘wheel’ business doesn’t help. I can see that it’s to try and present her as the ‘good guy’ for the viewers in the show but I think it may be having the opposite effect as it’s coming over ( to me at least) that she feels herself above them when she herself has not proven to be any different a ruler whilst at the helm in Mereen. It’s also strange she name checks those three houses as the Starks and Lannisters are pretty much spent forces at this point and the Baratheons are technically divided and could be a lot stronger.

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    63. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I’m having a hard time imagining a context in which Dany would give the wheel speech. She hasn’t been this specific about the goings-on in Westeros since season two, when Xaro told her that Robert was dead and a war of succession and secession had started:

      “The Seven Kingdoms are at war with one another… false kings destroying the country… the Usurper is dead. The Starks fight the Lannisters, the Baratheons fight each other!” —Dany to Jorah.

      The fact that she gets so specific again, mentioning each of the Houses involved in the ‘wheel’, must mean that she gets news from Westeros. Something has to prompt this speech! My crazy theory? It’s from a conversation with Tyrion. What do you guys think?

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    64. Sean C.,

      Robb may not be a protagonist-POV character in the books, but he sure was one on the show!
      But anyway, that’s largely irrelevant even on the show, as like Wimsey just wrote, this is about some of the Stark children, not all of them and their extended family. But this wasn’t obvious to me on the show til Robb actually died. Which maybe a direct result of TV narrative Vs book narrative: the opening sequence of a long series (well, if we exclude the WW), told through film, is going to stick in your mind very strongly, more so than the read version. Images created in the mind leave less impact than ones seen through the eyes. There’s no show equivalent to POV, so as long a someone gets a fair amount of screen time, we’re going to think they’re important. And anyway, it was all part of the “leading us down the garden path” strategy, with Ned being the main protagonist etc…

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    65. Sean C.: That’s totally wrong.The difference between Sansa in AGOT and Sansa in any of the subsequent books is enormous; heck, she changes a lot even in her final chapters of AGOT.What she doesn’t do is what D&D have her do, suddenly flip a switch and become a Machiavel between chapters — the whole point of her time in KL is that being a prisoner and getting the crap kicked out of you all the time, and being utterly alone, is not suddenly going to turn you into a master politician

      This really is not true. First of all, she did not become a Machiavel . She just become j a good liar. After four whole seasons! And it did not happen suddenly.

      From S2E1 we can see this transformation. In S2 in her scenes with Joffrey, Cersei, LF, Tyrion,… It is obvious that she is lying. She wears a mask of “stupid and naive girl”.

      In S3 in her scenes with Tyrion, Olena, LF, and finally in S4 in her scenes with Lysa and lords of the Vale.

      She was getting better and better. It was a natural progress, nothing rushed.

      I do not like Sansa in books. Her evolution is too slow if we take into account everything she survived. GRRM will because of that have a big problem in writing next two books.

      Any serious move on her part won’t be convincing in TWOW or ADOS.

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    66. I said it when it first came out, and I’ll say it again, I believe people are taking Dany’s wheel speech out of context. I believe it is basically her saying she is going to end the Westerosi musical chairs for the Iron Throne, once and for all.

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    67. A Girl Will Obey: Sure the show introduced us to the Starks first, but who knows what goes on in GRRM’s brain, and by way of consequence, D&D’s?

      The show introduced us to the problems of White Walkers and the dreaded winter first. 🙂 Before the Starks. As a show watcher only, I was a little disturbed by Ned Stark swinging his sword and killing that Nightwatch guy who was crazily running south after encountering a WW. Well, Ned himself lost his head before the season was over in a strange bit of foreshadowing? Sure, House Stark came first of all the houses. But for me, House Stark itself has never really been central to the story. Individual characters and how they are dealing with situations and changing/growing up, are of far more interest. I like Bran and Arya for the clear, well-defined, individual paths they have chosen for themselves. Sansa has been a little boring to me, but hopefully that will change. Jon of course, is one of the three “heroes” of the story and he’s on his hero’s journey, along with the other two (which, hopefully will become more exciting and clear for all three in the coming season). Other Houses are also interesting. And unlike some book readers, I am very interested in parts of Essos, especially Braavos and its story.

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    68. Serious question – Am I crazy or was there a post with episodes 4-7 plot summaries? Did I dream this? Like… I remember reading it on here then it was gone.

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    69. Wimsey,

      Let me first say that I love reading your comments – always so thoughtful and insightful. That said, I’m going to respectfully disagree with your analysis of Sansa. In her, GRRM has quite accurately captured the heart and mind of a very young teenage girl. Many women, including myself, spent most of their early teens in a completely insular, self-centred state. One becomes oblivious to others’ problems; all else shrinks in comparison to your own struggles. I can’t quite explain the mechanism for this, but it truly does exist. My own family describes me going through this phase: I went into it a reportedly thoughtful, engaging little girl, and became insufferable and selfish. I emerged some time later with my same pre-puberty personality, but smarter, compassionate and more in-tune with the world around me. I, of course, was completely ignorant of this process, and was shocked when it was gleefully relayed to me by my otherwise loving family much later in life. (I believe the words, “no, really, you were a little bitch back then” were uttered. By more than one person. Oops).

      So, you judge her “incurious”; I see her as peri-menses, confused about her own changing mind and body, and tragically plucked from a very safe environment at a difficult time in her life. She suddenly has to attend with the male gaze and the constant threat of sexual violence. She wasn’t prepared for this, could never be, and her development is suspended somewhat as a result. It is of no surprise to me that she is only now coming to terms with her experience fully, and learning how to play the game. She can, and will become a powerful force, and I believe her traumatic experience will make her empathetic to the plight of others.

      Arya, by contrast, has been devastated almost beyond repair. She was so young and immature emotionally during the events of King’s Landing. Now as we know she has effectively deadened her feelings and focused purely on revenge. Childhood trauma at this level can lead to psychopathy and is often found in the background of serial killers, and that’s what she is becoming.

      (disclaimer: I will state for the record that Arya and Jon are my favourite characters, but Sansa is now up there too. I can understand her, but that doesn’t mean it was particularly fun to read her early chapters! But I’m so excited for her future arc).

      Edited to say: good god, just realised I didn’t comment on the trailer at all. Apologies for the digression.

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    70. mau:
      From S2E1 we can see this transformation. In S2 in her scenes with Joffrey, Cersei, LF, Tyrion,… It is obvious that she is lying. She wears a mask of “stupid and naive girl”.

      In S3 in her scenes with Tyrion, Olena, LF, and finally in S4 in her scenes with Lysa and lords of the Vale.

      She was getting better and better. It was a natural progress, nothing rushed.

      No, there was no natural progress there. The writers cut pretty much all of Sansa’s character development and actual actions in King’s Landing, which was particularly obvious in season 3, where any notions of character advancement from season 2 were tossed in the rubbish bin in favour of a season-long series of scenes making fun of her for being dumb and treating her as an object rather than a character (this being the season that gave us such gems as Sansa thinking that her family will come to her wedding, and Sansa not knowing the word “shit”, in the same episode that makes the massacre of her family all about Tyrion). If the writers wanted to speed up Sansa’s character arc, then they needed to build her up in King’s Landing more than GRRM does, which they did not do; indeed, Sansa in the show was well behind the development of her book self until 408, when she suddenly leaped ahead with no buildup.

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    71. I thought the theory about

      Sansa marrying Ramsay

      was so crackpot when I first heard it, but it makes more and more sense the more I think about it.

      I mean, the show seems to foreshadow that Littlefinger won’t be long for this world, and that his death will be at Sansa’s hands. I hardly expect them to introduce her Harrold Hardyng plot point, and if the ultimate goal is to have her retake Winterfell after the marriage, they could condense that a lot by having her marry Ramsay. Ramsay’s possible death in the Battle of Winterfell would leave her (well, or Stannis) as the lady of Winterfell. Stannis already communicated his intent to seat a Stark relative as lord of Winterfell, after all.

      Not to mention Sophie’s comments about filming a “traumatic scene.” Also enter: Alfie Allen’s comment about people whose paths don’t cross in the books (his comment was “who have never met, ***or have had just minute amounts of screentime together***”)What’s more traumatic than being forced to consummate your marriage with the monster that is Ramsay after being stripped naked by the man who sacked your home and (for all she knows) killed your youngest two brothers?

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    72. Hoyti Von Totiy,

      I find it curious how Lannisters seem to be getting more and more dark-haired with every season… I wouldn’t be overly bothered by it if not for the fact that Lannister blondness was very much a plot point in Season 1. It doesn’t really bother me even now, to be honest, but it does come across as somewhat nonsensical. Couple that with Shireen Baratheon’s blond hair, and one starts to wonder how the hell Ned figured out the true parentage of Cersei’s children.

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    73. Sean C.: No, there was no natural progress there.The writers cut pretty much all of Sansa’s character development and actual actions in King’s Landing, which was particularly obvious in season 3, where any notions of character advancement from season 2 were tossed in the rubbish bin in favour of a season-long series of scenes making fun of her for being dumb and treating her as an object rather than a character (this being the season that gave us such gems as Sansa thinking that her family will come to her wedding, and Sansa not knowing the word “shit”, in the same episode that makes the massacre of her family all about Tyrion).If the writers wanted to speed up Sansa’s character arc, then they needed to build her up in King’s Landing more than GRRM does, which they did not do; indeed, Sansa in the show was well behind the development of her book self until 408, when she suddenly leaped ahead with no buildup.

      I don’t agree that they made her look stupid.

      There is really no need to refer to the books. Sansa had her development in the context of the show and it was done well . She has been shown that she is able to lie (more each season) and there is nothing unconvincing about that. She at the end of the fourth season has not become a political genius, only better liar and “actress”. That’s it.

      Perfectly logical.

      D&D cut her interaction with Dontos Hollard, because they wanted her to interact with LF. This was a reasonable choice for the show.

      Her idea that she can escape from KL with Dontos is just as stupid as thinking that her family will come to her wedding.

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    74. Yes Sansa’s development was slightly rushed… But damn…. all she did was tell a little lie and then make a feathery dress…..

      She didn’t suddenly become Olenna….
      My only issue w/ that scene was they should’ve had it been a plan between her and little finger, not just her alone. That way it wouldn’t have made her character development jump too far, and it wouldn’t have made littlefinger look like he had no plans for dealing w/ Lysa’s death

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    75. mau:
      Her idea that she canescape from KL with Dontos is just as stupid as thinking that her family will come to her wedding.

      No, it isn’t seeing as she does escape with Dontos –and more to the point, Sansa is aware that Dontos is a sorry excuse for a helper, but he’s the only option she has to work with (when the Tyrells arrive, she picks them instead).

      Whereas thinking her family is coming to her wedding can only happen if she has no understanding there’s a war going on and she hasn’t learned anything since season 1.

      Sansa’s arc on the show has been terribly handled. They cut virtually all of her KL character development and actions. Her season 3 story treated her as a joke and an object. Then they rushed her into being a “player” in one scene.

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    76. Wimsey,

      Quote from the book: Jon Snow -“You’ll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers” AGOT

      GRRM puts a ton of these foreshadow statements in all the novels.

      This quote could mean a lot of things… But I’ve always felt that Arya’s storyline would end in tragedy. I could be wrong though, its just how I’ve always seen it.

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    77. HelloThere,

      The main criticism of House of cards is that they made ​​Frank Underwood look too smart and too perfect.

      I believe that D&D didn’t want to do the same with LF. He is just a man , after all. Cat is his only weakness and he acted recklessly with Lysa to protect Sansa.

      Yes , he wanted Lysa’s death , but he certainly had not planned it to happen that way.

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    78. Mr Fixit,

      I find that funny too, for all the emphasis of the ‘golden’ twins…Myrcella and Tommen are about right. Maybe a silly thing to critique, but the fact that they make mention of it in the books and the show is a little goofy when Jaime is pretty much a brunette.

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    79. mau:
      HelloThere,

      The main criticism of House of cards is that they made ​​Frank Underwood look too smart and too perfect.

      I believe that D&D didn’t want to do the same with LF. He is just a man , after all. Cat is his only weakness and he acted recklessly with Lysa to protect Sansa.

      Yes , he wanted Lysa’s death , but he certainly had not planned it to happen that way.

      But he wasn’t “protecting” Sansa there. She was no longer in immediate danger. He killed her then in the books because he knew he had a patsy on hand who could be blamed for it.

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    80. Sean C.,

      But none of that really matter.

      The only question is does it seem logical based on what she has done so far in the show that she is able to lie to the lords of the Vale, and I say that it is logical.

      She used her tears to manipulate Lysa in S4E5. She played dumb girl before Cersei, Tyrion, Olenna,…

      So it’s not something she’s done for the first time in the show. I see no reason for such exaggerated reaction to that scene. She lied for the hundredth time . Not a big deal.

      This scene is important because for the first time LF actually sees her ability to lie.

      But she did not become a genius , master-manipulator , or something else .

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    81. Anyways, who cares anymore…. Lets look forward to season 5 rather than needlessly nitpicking @ the same damn things that have been nitpicked on for the last year

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    82. mau,

      I am already ready for the slew of people bitching about all the character cuts and changes and then the same people turning around and bitching about how horrible ADWD and AFFC are

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    83. mau:
      But she did not become a genius , master-manipulator , or something else .

      But in fact, everyone connected with the show has said this indicates her becoming a player, not merely a good liar.

      mau:
      In the show hekilled her because “what do we do to those who hurt the ones we love”….

      Obviously he acted emotionally and without a plan.

      Yes, which is why the show’s version of Littlefinger is idiotic.

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    84. mau,

      It’s like a badge of honor or a testament to the bonds of fandom… a fan version of people in a relationship who are so close that they finish each other’s sentences. I get the sentiment and the way these one-liners serve as instant recognition codes, not to mention shorthands for cool scenes in the books, but that’s all they are. Turning them into some kind of crucial narrative elements that represent the very foundation of Martin’s work is pure siliness and a prime example of how fandoms tend to get confused on the questions of form and function, and mistake the former for the latter.

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    85. Sean C.: But in fact, everyone connected with the show has said this indicates her becoming a player, not merely a good liar.

      Yes, which is why the show’s version of Littlefinger is idiotic.

      Becoming and become is not the same. And every good playes is a good liar.

      LF in the show is darker version of Severus Snape and I like that. He is not an idiot , just a man who is responsible for the death of the woman he loved. Sansa and Cat are his weakness, part of humanity that remained in him.

      When he said “I have only loved one woman, only one, my entire life…” I belive him and this line was always heartbreaking for me(on a personal level also) , just like “after all this time?.. always..” form Harry Potter.

      In some way LF is also a tragic figure. But it is a matter of taste.

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    86. I really do love the LF character and Aidan’s portrayal of him. Such a mix of adjectives to describe him….but I do think he’s complex, cunning, and yet has an Achilles heel that will eventually bring him down.

      If I didn’t dislike half of the characters, the show wouldn’t be nearly as good. Obviously. Here’s hoping Sansa can win me over, because that would be the ultimate in surprises.

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    87. HelloThere: then the same people turning around and bitching about how horrible ADWD and AFFC are

      Not me! I’m thrilled and delighted that Arianne and Victarion will never darken my TV set. I wish that I never had wasted time reading their chapters: indeed, my brain refuses to remember anything about them other than these chapters exemplify bad literature and an amazing drop in quality relative to what GRRM provides elsewhere: it’s almost like Robert Jordan wrote those chapters.

      mau: And not only here , but in any fandom (Harry Potter, LoTR, Hobbit,…)

      Yes, this is another strange aspect of fandoms. I think that it centers that aspect of fandoms that gets caught up in details and particulars rather than in generalities and the big picture. If it is ever true that particular lines are important as presented verbatim, then it is so rare that I never seen one. Lines are information and just as long as the audience gets the information, then it works.

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    88. days:
      I wonder what makes Arya so popular with the show-only audience.

      The same things that make her so popular with the book readership, most likely.

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    89. Sean C.,

      Yeah but what? I like her but she doesn’t seem like the type of character people usually like. She’s (a) a kid, (b) has trouble listening, and (c) wants to kill people.

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    90. days,

      Age her up by 20 years and she’d be my dream. Can’t wait til she gets back to Westeros. Arya ready for some fun?

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    91. TheTouchOfFrost,

      No, Daeny empathizes with them: she directly relates to their circumstances as she has been in many of them and she has the intelligence (that is curiousity, imagination and comprehension) to extrapolate to those circumstances that she has not directly experienced. I know that you are determined to see this as arrogant, but it is almost opposite of that. To be consistent with this, you would have to label anyone concerned with human rights as arrogant: yet the only people who do that are the bigots that human rights activists oppose. (It was and still is popular in the American South to accuse “Yankees” of being arrogant for crticizing the blatant racism and sexism of their culture: the current code is “elitist.”)

      GRRM and B&W all have taken great pains to show that Darny and Jon truly relate to lessers and enemies as fellow humans. This is going to be key in the end: “defeating” the Others and/or R’Hllor is going to require making the effort to understand those powers. GRRM and B&W have made great strides towards developing that pair (as well as Arya and Tyrion) to be able to do that. And that is the key: Daeny’s ability to put heself in a slave’s shoes (and Jon’s ability to put homself in a Wildling’s shoes) are precursors to their outting themsrlves in very, very different shoes in the end.

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    92. Wimsey,

      I am simply a humble dreamer of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, the greatest minor character never written about or understood.

      Only Lyanna.

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    93. I think a lot of Arya’s appeal has to do with the fact that not only does she react, but she acts when things happen. She’s a survivor and fighter, after seeing her family and friends killed. She has a strong sense of justice (the baker’s boy and Joffrey, Lommy, etc), a troubling vengefulness and anger (which is surely understandable). She’s very young, yet is trying to make her way of it alone. She’s stubborn and brave.

      It would be a man, himself filled with hatred, who teaches her the gift of mercy. I’m not sure there will be a better pairing than Arya and Sandor. To me, D&D really nailed that storyline and expanded it in a wonderful way from the books. Maisie and Rory obviously had a ball.

      Arya has seen too much and become hardened by it, yet has a lot to learn from

      Jaqen/Kindly Man

      I sincerely hope that her time in Braavos is given the screen time it deserves, if not in quantity then in quality of a few specific bits.

      Seriously, as an eleven year old, I would have been hiding in a corner completely losing my shit.

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    94. Hodor’s Bastard,

      I’ll raise a blue rose for that. Lovely Lyanna- who doesn’t want an empathetic, beautiful warrior of a woman to compose songs for?

      As for this teaser- with Hotah escorting Jaime (seemingly alone) I’m wondering if Bronn is indeed Gone.

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    95. iridium,

      Well said! My niece is 13, seems to be going through some of this. She has been consumed with all of the pressure around her, much of which she unwittingly applies to herself. (can’t bring myself to call her a bitch yet… hoping those days don’t arrive). She’s still very sweet, but soft spoken and typically disengaged.

      Anyway, I think Sansa has been a well formed character, and brought to life in the show. I’m excited for her future…

      hoping she is smuggled into WF as Alayne “the spy” Stone, perhaps with the Corbrays, as part of an envoy from the Vale. I could see littlefinger sending them to treat with the Boltons- taking the role of the manderly’s as another house the Bolton’s may need to bring on board to secure the north. I would be really surprised if she shows up in WF as Sansa Stark

      This may have been suggested already, but this is my present thinking on the topic

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    96. Pigeon,

      She has a lot to learn in the House of Black and White…

      But if they’re following the books, she won’t. I mean, she’ll learn stuff, but she’ll never learn the essentials —to truly become “no one” and to serve. The last thing we saw her do was killing Raff the Sweetling, in TWOW’s “Mercy” chapter, which will be adapted as her climax for this season (though she’ll kill Meryn Trant, since she has already killed Polliver, who got Raff’s role from the books.) That was Arya Stark getting justice, as when she killed Dareon, the deserter from the Night’s Watch; she’s not a honest servant of the Many-Faced God. I hope the show makes clear the rather anti-climactic fact (for Arya) that the Faceless Men kill all kinds of men —good, bad, anyone. Meanwhile, what Arya wants is to become a vigilante. The beginning of TWOW and end of Season 5 (“Mercy” and its adaptation) marks the beginning of the end for Arya at the House of Black and White —after almost becoming “no one” throughout ADWD, she realizes more than ever that she’s Arya Stark.

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    97. Luka Nieto,

      This will probably be the strong theme of the last episodes.

      Arya failing to be something else than a Stark, Sansa revealing herself as a Stark, Dany realizing she can only succeed by being a Targaryen… This makes me think it could be a good time for Jon to learn about his origins… Or maybe just embracing his Starkness.

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    98. Did anyone else see the new trailer on Sky Atlantic the other day that was slightly different to this one? They do seem to chop and change around the official ones and I don’t think they’ve ever shown all the stuff we’ve seen linked to on here. Without going through all the previous ones to compare as I can’t remember all the content, can anyone who’s given them a really good look confirm if have we already seen a very quick close up shot from

      the Pit with Daario in the bottom left of the screen and a Harpy masked person slashing at him so he has to turn his head really quickly to the right (it’s not clear if the blow actually lands but looks a really close thing)? Or Tormund at HH standing by himself with a line of people holding back a large group of (I assume) wildlings about 30 feet or so behind him?

      We probably have and I’ve just forgotten but if not they might have had some other new shots in their one. Unlikely, but possible.

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    99. Luka Nieto,

      Interesting take on her arc. I’ll applaud if they attempt some of that.

      I’m especially looking forward to their adaptation of the inside of the HoB&W. Will she visit where the “faces” are kept? Will she learn to lie? Will she go blind? Will she dream? Will she witness others (clients) visiting the pool? I also hope they have her hiding (and subsequently retrieving) Needle as a metaphor for her Starkhood. It should be an intriguing Act II for her.

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    100. Luka Nieto,

      I have faith in the show because I have loved every adaptation choice they’ve made for Arya

      Tywin Arya
      The adventures of Arya and the hound
      Brienne vs The Hound

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    101. Hodor’s Bastard,

      1. The faces are a big moment, so I’d say that they will adapt that. However, do not doubt that we’ll usually be seeing Maisie while she’s wearing her new face, because they’ll want to keep using Maisie, of course. It’s a choice that’s justified by the text, too, since when she puts on her new face she still feels her old one.
      2. I’m sure she’ll learn to lie, poison, fight…
      3. Probably no dreams. Exclusive Bran trait in the show, it seems.
      4. Roles have been cast of characters going to die at the pool.
      5. Hiding Needle is in; the moment when she decides to keep it instead of throwing it in the water alongside everything else is glimpsed in the first trailer, just before the “Game of Thrones” title.

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    102. Jorn,

      Considering one of the elements of Jon’s ADWD storyline is his inability to put his Starkness behind him, hence Alys’s appeal, the comparisons to the Kings of Winter of old by the clansmen, and his decision to march south, I’d say it’s very likely we’ll see something similar in this season.

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    103. Luka Nieto,

      I’m not sure. Out of context, it sounds like a bizarre speech to make. The war now is pretty much confined to the north so it’s odd that she’s making that speech now that everything in Westeros is relatively settled in regard to open rebellions. They may just be trying to create a link between er and Westeros but at the moment it seems pretty clumsy. Could be a conversation with Tyrion, but he knows that Westeros is pretty settled now too. Still trying to imagine a situation in which Tyrion would want to help oust his nephew from the throne. I mean, he hates Cersei but wouldn’t risk his nephew’s life for a woman he doesn’t know especially as he is well aware of the Targs rather chequred history in ruling. The show has got a job on convincing me of a number of characters motivations in certain situations this season.

      Wimsey,

      You seem convinced that empathy can only be shown as being the path to noble ambitions. Dany has no idea how people from Slaver’s Bay feel and has no understanding of their culture whatsoever. Hence the shite that’s going to kick off this season! Dany has never experienced the kind of slavery those she sympathises with have. She has always been looked after and brought up protected. Her being given to Drogo as his bride is hardly comparable with the slavery in Slaver’s Bay. By this logic, anyone who has been affected by social restrictions can broadly empathise with them. On the arrogance front, I’ve not claimed she is fully but displays some. She has an exaggerated sense of her own importance in ,for example, thinking that Westeros needs her to come back and rule, where it’s actually been going along pretty much the same as it always has without her (there’s hardly been any significnat movement to restore the Targs to the throne from the people nor anyone remembering them fondly!). The ‘wheel’ speech is an example of this. The labelling of anyone who criticises a different view as arrogant is

      To be consistent with this, you would have to label anyone concerned with human rights as arrogant

      This is an absolutely ridiculous statement to make. Your thoughts on an issue and how you approach it are completely different entities.

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    104. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I actually think this is a pretty fair assessment of Dany…
      Shes a character of contradictions…

      Unlike others, she doesn’t want to rule out of a lust for power, but I think she seeks validation… Like she WANTS to prove to everyone that she can make everything better… and there IS a hint of arrogance in that.

      Shes complex.

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    105. HelloThere,

      Which is why she’s an interesting character (if only they progressed her plotline a bit!). I just don’t want her whitewashed as the show (and the book too to be fair) sometimes does.

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    106. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I think that’s pretty spot on.

      Personally I think Dany’s arrogance is the arrogance of youth / immaturity / lack of experience combined with an ever burgeoning sense of entitlement. Also some of it is probably pure façade – she has to look in control to those around her. It’s underneath that façade that I would love the showmakers to explore a bit more – to see the vulnerability and lack of surety that (must) exist under the surface.

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    107. Ross,

      I would love them to have more moments where she drops her facade… Like when she locked her dragons. I loved the way they decided not to have the unsullied army lock them up, but have her do it herself and make it emotional.

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    108. HelloThere:

      Unlike others, she doesn’t want to rule out of a lust for power, but I think she seeks validation…

      Just wait until she returns from the desert. If she hasn’t bonded with Drogon (a la Daemon Targaryen and Caraxes) and assumed a more “assertive” agenda, I’ll be surprised. Hopefully she still has some sensible advisors familiar with Westeros politics left alive so she can balance her inherent Targ arrogance with prudence. Although I must admit that might be the ideal scenario…which might not be worth betting on.

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    109. Hodor’s Bastard,

      Dany’s entire character arc ended in ADWD on such a turning pivotal point…. a point where it could go practically anywhere. I just cannot predict what will happen… Though she will embrace her more destructive side

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    110. Ross,

      You said it very well. I’m of the same opinion. I think this is why I like Dany in ADwD. Well, I like book Dany more generally. That inner insecurity vs built up facade is easier to see on pages (weird saying that: “see on page, rather than on screen”) simply because we are in her mind and her outward composure does not block us from feeling her doubts. I’m not sure they will explore that part though in the show. To me, it looks like she has moved on from being insecure and she has become a full grown confident ruler (albeit one that can make mistakes).

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    111. In the first episode of the new session Tywin will become kinda Reek, since his body surely reeks of rot after a 7 day vigil. Tyrion will become kinda Reek as well. Ofc, his ‘boxed-in’ body reeks of his own piss ‘n shit. Did the math. Distance between KL and Pentos is about 800 miles. Medieval merchant ship could achieve about 13 mph under best conditions, i. e. average speed then could be 6, maybe 7 mph. So, Tyrion will remain boxed for about 5 days (whilst her father will remain entombed forever). Then trip to Volantis… The (flight) distance between Pentos and Volantis is at least 1300 miles. Will Tyrion ‘n Varys fly the distance? No way. Will walk/ride? Not likely. It’s two weeks’ sail from Pentos to Volantis (about 2350 miles via Narrow Sea and Summer Sea). Night mare again. So, probably they’ll take the Rhoyne river trip and reach Volantis in… the third episode. What then? The synopsis: ‘Tyrion and Varys walk the Long Bridge of Volantis.’ Why is it so important to bring up their walking over the bridge in the brief synopsis? What will happen on the bridge? Will Varys fell into the river (and drown) or escort Tyrion to Daenerys in Meereen?

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    112. Uknow0,

      Relying on logical calculations to estimate travel times in Essos and Westeros in the show is an act of self-flagellation. I suspect that they are going to play very loosely with the implied travel paradigms and geography in Essos this season, imho.

      As others have surmised as well, expect the river/Sorrows stuff to take place after Volantis not before, with Jorah instead of the Griff bunch.

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    113. Hodor’s Bastard
      The Sorrows stuff after Volantis? Chroyane (that lies to the north of Volantis & is located at the confluence of the Lhorulu and the Rhoyne) is practically halfway between Pentos and Volantis (that sits at the mouth of the Rhoyne). Why should Tyrion ‘n Varys travel from Pentos to Volantis, and then from Volantis back to the Sorrows?

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    114. Uknow0,

      Many threads back we discussed this. According to the ep summaries, Volantis is in ep 3, which will be followed by

      “the Jorah-Tyrion” journey east” supposedly. There is no way “The Sorrows” is appearing in ep 2. Since there are no Griffs, they can place the Sorrows anywhere, imho.

      We’ve got to significantly loosen our grip on book paradigms and geographical canon this season.

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    115. Hodor’s Bastard,

      There is a scene in season 3 where Melissandre meets Arya and while looking into her eyes she tells that she sees many kind of eyes (blue, black, green etc) that look back at her (Mel) and then only darkness…
      In the same season there is a scene in which Catelyn tells Talisha about Jon being seriously ill as a little baby and her being cruel and wishing his death and then how she regretted it and asked the gods to save the baby and promised to start loving him but when he became healthy again she couldn’t keep her promise.

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    116. dothrakian raven:

      There is a scene in season 3 where Melissandre meets Arya and while looking into her eyes she tells that she sees many kind of eyes (blue, black, green etc) that look back at her (Mel) and then only darkness…

      I wonder if Mel has ever run into a faceless one before? Great recall…I’ll consider it foreshadowing! Thx!

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    117. Hodor’s Bastard,

      Has there been discussion regarding Jorah

      saving Tyrion at the sorrows, and potential contracting Greyscale? My guess if greyscale is gonna be a show thing beyond Shireen, this is it

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    118. Sister Kisser,

      Ya gotta wonder if they’ll go that way, SK.

      Will they introduce an active greyscale vector in the show? If Jorah was that vector (instead of JonCon) and hid it, it would up his tragedy/volatility factor in the show. In any case, I don’t believe he is returning to Westeros and may go out in a blaze of glory at some point….giving his life for Dany (or Tyrion?). Is that too predictable/mushy?

        Quote  Reply

    119. Hodor’s Bastard,

      Given the greyscale introduction with Shireen, I have to believe they will follow it up somehow.

      I also don’t see the show having Mel sacrificing her if GRRM doesn’t do it first, especially if they don’t end up spelling out some plot to reinforce the danger of the disease. Perhaps her affliction in the show is just a way to demonstrate/justify Stannis’s distance from her. However, I doubt that. After all, we still know little in the books about what this really is….
      I’m thinking we learn a little more about it this season at the Wall, with the Sorrows action as reinforcement-In which case, I think Jorah ends up contracting it in the same way JonCon did.

      As for Jorah’s death- I’ve always thought he makes it back to Westeros, a fairly broken man, but finding some redemption serving at Dany’s side- and perhaps he dies protecting her……… maybe run through by Longclaw??

      How’s that for predictable?

        Quote  Reply

    120. Sister Kisser,

      They’ve still not explored the Pale Mare aspect of Mereen which I thought added to Dany’s story as she had to distance herself from the people somewhat.
      Perhaps Jorah takes Greyscale back to Mereen!? Although to be honest, I think the epidemic aspect will be lost from the show.

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    121. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I can’t imagine the show will have time to show the slow spreading of diseases like the book. Maybe they will work it in the script @ some point as an easter egg for book reader, or just allude to it, but I doubt its going to be a big point like it is in the books.

        Quote  Reply

    122. HelloThere,

      The Pale Mare sounds like one of the most cuttable things to me.

      As you said: references? Sure, maybe. But a whole ADWD chapter was dedicated to the Pale Mare, and I doubt we’ll see something similar in the show. It’s like the Karstark succession issue Jon has to deal with for two or three chapters… it’s just not gonna happen, precisely because cutting it wouldn’t mean losing much. In fact, adding it in the show may detract from portraying Jon’s arc this season successfully, with the necessary focus.

      Books can handle these secondary issues. They may contribute to the character by showcasing their leadership qualities, for example. A TV show, especially one in which each of these characters gets one hour of screen-time at most, not so much. Jon’s story will be all about handling Stannis, the Night’s Watch and the wildlings; and Dany’s all about handling the freedmen and the slavers, in particular the Sons of the Harpy. And that’s how it should be in the show.

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    123. Sister Kisser:
      Given the greyscale introduction with Shireen, I have to believe they will follow it up somehow.

      I think “introduction” is considerably overstating it. They have a character with greyscale disfigurement, but they’ve never said the word “greyscale” or even explained the cause of Shireen’s facial scarring. A lot of the Unsullied thought she had dragon scales or something.

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    124. Sean C.,

      I can’t remember if they mentioned she had Greyscale as an infant but either way, I you’re right and it’s just a way of explaining her disfigurement in the show. Nothing more will come of it unless it is perhaps hinted at in the Sorrows if the Stone Men pop up. References to both being the result of Greyscale without forming a whole plot around it would be more than fine with me.

        Quote  Reply

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