Daenerys Targaryen’s emergence from the Temple of the Dosh Khaleen is, of course, a turning point in the entire series, heralding the Mother of Dragons’s rise as the head of all the Dothraki – a long-dangling plot thread since the very first season – and a major stepping stone to her invasion of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros (my prediction: given just how quickly this season has been moving already, expect to see the Targaryen host make landfall in the finale, perhaps as the cliffhanger ending to end all cliffhanger endings [sorry, Jon Snow]).
The episode’s ending, however, also marks another major narrative development, this one thematic in nature: it’s a giant revolution of the storytelling wheel, a coming full-circle for Daenerys (yet another way the audience can tell that the series is imminently drawing to a close). Her emerging from the fire that serves as the makeshift funeral pyre for all the various khals is, obviously, a direct parallel to her triumphant hatching of the dragon eggs in “Fire and Blood” (episode 110) – another instance in which the character was able to turn personal tragedy (in that case, the death of Drogo) into unthinkable success (bringing magic back into the world).
But the dramatic situation as a whole is also familiar ground: her presence in the temple, where she ate the horse’s heart and had her child proclaimed the future conqueror of the known world; her return to the Dothraki more generally still, the people that were initially supposed to make up the brunt of the original invasion army; and Ser Jorah Mormont’s dutiful, worshipful bowing to a being that has some sort of supernatural ability. It is both a reminder of how far the exiled princess has come and an indicator that she’s treading exactly the path that she’s always needed to – although both her husband and son have been taken from her, she is still assembling the host that will mount the world.
What’s so striking about the sequence is how it is replayed and reflected in nearly all of the episode’s other various story threads, chief among them the developments at Winterfell. Once again, Young Rickon is being held hostage in his own home, though, this time, it is to another northerner, the demented Ramsay Bolton, instead of the outsider Theon Greyjoy (although it should be noted, interestingly enough, that the former is alien to the Stark children, while the latter was practically family); once again, Osha attempts to work her wiles against her captor, though it results in the trick backfiring on her, and she is left to bled out on the floor while Ramsay casually looks on.
This coming full-circle, obviously, is less a parallel and more a reflection, playing the viewers’ expectations against him and resulting in a climax that is rendered all the more powerful for it. That “Book of the Stranger’s” writers, showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss, opted to employ the two together in the same installment only heightens their individual effectiveness (audiences can’t possibly be sure where the scenes are going to go, which is, of course, an amplification of the series’s overall storytelling modus operandi) while working to reinforce the collective thematic motif.
Caught in the middle of this push and pull between the two sides of the thematic divide are practically all the other characters – Jon Snow struggling to find a path for himself while assembling a coalition of followers, Tyrion Lannister attempting to lead his city out of an impossible siege, Theon desperate for acceptance back home – looking for purchase as we quickly approach the conclusion to one of television’s most convoluted, most thematically rich series.
You can view all previous It Is Known posts here. Or you can peruse my older column, Anatomy of a Throne, here.
Stoneheart
Hodor
Hodor!!!
If she doesn’t set sail for Westeros by episode 10 I think a lot of people would be upset lol.
“three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love”
So what’s her third? When and how will it happen?
So Dany stepping out of the fire yet again. Winterfell heir captured in Winterfell yet again are full circles.
But Theon yet again returning to Pyke isn’t? And Tyrion yet again finding himself preparing for a siege also isn’t full circle? I don’t see the difference.
I am more interested in what happens with the white walkers than any of the dany stuff, sorry.
taim,
Yes but they weren’t *in* “Book of the Stranger.”
Great thoughts.
I really loved this entire scene, it mirrored the end of S1 but on a much, much larger scale.
There were 20-25 people then….now it’s hundreds of thousands!
It’s constantly stated that the dragons brought magic back into the world. Doesn’t the existence of the Three Eyed Raven, wilding wargs, White Walkers, Children of the Forest, Mirri Maz Duur, Maggy the Frog, Melisandre’s search for Stannis and mystical abilities as well as the sorcerer that castrated Varys all point to magic never going away during the dragons absence? Part of the accepted narrative that I never grasped.
One thing I did notice on the theme of Dany’s “rebirth” is the shape of the temple and in particular, the entrance to the temple. No…is it just me?
Flayed Potatoes,
One for love is
Batman,
It’s not so much that magic was “gone”, as it appears it was decreasing over time.
Several sources in the text point out magic’s resurgence. From Qybrun noting how much easier it is to produce wildfire, and how much more potent it is to Marywyn noting that Glass candles can be lit again after being impossible for a very long time.
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Well shit 🙁
Apollo,
I think I know what you’re hinting at. Courbet’s “Origin of the World” comes to mind. However, personally I was reminded of Jesus or Mary in a mandorla or aureola, a kind of golden light that envelops the whole body and traditionally comes in an somewhat oval shape as well (and if Sackheim looked at Caravaggio for the resurrection scene, I think it’s possible that he looked at other Christian art work for the Daeny scene…).
I hope Euron steps it up in the next two episodes, there just aren’t any interesting baddies left on the show (zombies are boring to me).
Who is Dany facing off against now? The Harpies? Civil war in Mereen between the slaves and nobles? She has 3 dragons and a 112,000 man army. ZzZzZzZz
King’s Landing the High Sparrow is so boring. Every conversation he has, he says absolutely nothing new, just spews off a bunch of religious cliches. How many more times can this happen before we actually learn something about this guy? And no, last episode doesn’t count as learning something interesting about him. Hoping the Sparrow’s can get knocked off and we can see the Tyrell’s and Lannister’s battle it out, but I have a feeling that isn’t going to happen. Are the Lannister’s setting a trap for the Tyrell’s with the plan in last episode? It’s hard to imagine Cersei outfoxing Lady Olenna, but we’ll see.
And then Ramsey. I’m just tired of Ramsey. He’s not scary to me. Never been a fan of how Iwan Rheon plays him. Now all of a sudden he is playing him as cool and collected Ramsey. The rest of this season will just be a march towards his death which is inevitable at this point. Jon will square off against him, then Ramsey will have him on the ropes, then Sansa will come out of nowhere to knife him in the balls. Feminists everywhere will rejoice. Never mind the fact that it’s completely dull and predictable story telling.
Just wanted to give kudos to Sofie Turner on the job she has done so far this season. I was struck by how well she had presented Sansa’s new found strength, especially in the scene right after the reunion with Jon. She conveyed the relief/awkwardness of being in her brother’s company after so many years, combined with now being a mature, young woman who now understands herself and how she fits in the world. Amazing.
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Yeah, my thoughts exactly.
It’ll be too rushed to have Dany land any force on Westeros by the season’s end. Does she ignore all that’s going on in Essos? (It’s all to achieve what is a selfish dream of “returning to claim a throne that is rightfully hers”, as she always reminds us.) What kind of a ruler would do that? A pathetic one.
Dany has proven to be big on words, without backing them up with true action. If it isn’t Drogon to the rescue, it’s a fantastical use of the unbelievable.
To prove she can rule, Dany must establish law & order in Meereen, then in Astapor & Yunkai. As Volantis is part of The Harpy equation, she may need to settle some accounts there too.
Before all that, Dany has collected a whole bunch of fanatics who think she’s a God, and she has to get all of those across the Dothraki Sea to return to Meereen. How is she going to do that, and keep them all together, no stragglers? Just look at a map of Essos. That’s one heck of a journey on foot. Jorah might know where Littlefinger keeps one of his transporters in the area. (That would be stretching things.)
Of course, there is another consideration. How many ships will Dany need to bring, let’s go with an estimate of warriors only, 40,000 to invade Westeros? How many warriors to a ship? 100? That’d be 400 ships required. Who’s got that kind of navy? Remember, 93 ships was how many Sons of Harpy burned at anchor.
It’s all going into the realms of the totally unrealistic fantasy epic. Does that make sense of why Dany shouldn’t be making land-fall by season’s end? Mid to late next season, sounds more believable, and that’s provided Dany leaves Essos in a good, tidy state with stable law & order. Otherwise, what was the point of Dany’s whole arc to date?
I think the dragons being in the “world” is making magic REsurge. It’s making a comeback. It never left altogether but was diminished and limited I think. If that is wrong then Im sure I will be corrected
EDIT.. someone already answered ..sorry for the repeat info.
Idk about that one. I mean does she LOVE Jorah like that? I know she loves him in a way but Im guessing its not eros kind of love but more brotherly.
taim,
Indeed!
A surprise vasectomy so that Ramsey can never produce an heir?
Diabolical! Darth Sansa, indeed!
Flayed Potatoes,
What’s up with three fires making rounds here? I thought it was only a book thing.
Geralt of Rivia,
Because she had her repeat fire last episode.
Flayed Potatoes,
Oh okay, in the first fire she got her dragon babies by proving herself strong, now Khalasar and third one should be about gaining something. But what?
The 3rd fire should be for life – torching the White Walkers with her dragons to bring back the dawn. Azor Ahai.
Dany will burn a White Walker with Drogon and Jon will falling love into her. 😀
r-hard,
Sounds like a bad fanfiction.
Wil On’T’ Hill,
Other folks have a lot of boats. They may have just featured in a trailer.
As for the God stuff I think it suggests she will become more sinister. The cinematic language used in that scene is evident in Triumph of The Will. Not exactly foreshadowing a good end to the Dany story. It’s what trips her up that should be exciting.
Geralt of Rivia,
Her kingdom except it’ll be a kingdom oh ashes.
Interesting to know, assuming HBO is telling the truth. Remaining episode lengths:
Episode 5:—-57 min
Episode 6:—-52min
Episode 7:—-51min
Episode 8:—-59min
Episode 9:—-60min
Episode 10:—69min (i.e. the longest episode of the entire series)
You can find these by searching “Game of Thrones (55-60) on HBO here: http://www.hbo.com/search?type=schedule&focusId=787226
This would explain why some episodes this season have felt quite short.
I doubt that the point of her arc will become clear to some viewers even when the series ends. 😉 So far, her goal has been to abolish slavery. She has struggled with it. Now she is finally in a position to root it out by taking charge of the Dothraki, who are slave suppliers to all of Essos. If she can command the Dothraki to a different way of life, then they will no longer enslave people, and sell slaves to most of Essos.
Wil On’T’ Hill,
My honest assumption about Dany’s arc is that: a. the Iraq War deeply traumatised Martin, so b. he started to write it into his story to deal with it, in the process c. forgetting that he had his own story and narrative to write; and d. subjecting us to his, frankly, flawed, inexpert and lay analysis (he’s a fiction writer, not a Middle East analyst!). In other words, there was no point to it, just the reactive writing of an author who prides himself on his lack of outlines (the ostensible ‘gardener’ approach which forgets that gardeners actually prune their gardens).
The showrunners are left picking up the pieces.
When Dany walks out of the first in that first shot, did it remind anyone else of Sephiroth?
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Yup I agree with that it could be
or could it be
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I think the most common answer was Carrie. 🙂
The second thing I noticed were people saying that the way she killed the Khals reminded them of O-Ren Ishii taking over the yakuza: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prDCDmchtTg .
Obligatory Battle Without Honour or Humanity link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYq_Jpxdq2A .
Gods, good Tarantino is *good*.
I don’t think she will be in westeros at the end of this season ..not unless she is going to get 9 to 10 mins screentime of remaining 5 episodes she will be appearing…even that wont be enough to resolve the situation in slaversbay ..
I think next season be it 7 or 8 episode will focus on dany coming to westeros her uniting whatever forces left and eventually begins the war of dawn .
MCH,
She banished him because he did betray her the only person she trusted most and even then she was looking for a way to pardon him but he was being a dick and didn’t own up his mistakes .so that lead dany eventually banish him .
Lyanna_Targaryen,
If its going to be an funeral pyre again then it will be the pyre of Jon snow.
But I think the third fire will happen in the wall or at the heart of the winter where she destroys them by using drogon and in the process both drogon and danu die .
Dany is one of the most annoying and least interesting characters for me however I agree her landing in Westeros seems to be drawing near. I think she will arrive as an antagonist though as she’s clearly becoming the mad queen.
Jon Snowed,
No she isn’t. She killed 4-5 khals who threatened her with rape.
She is the only one who can save Westeros. At most I could see her die at the very end sacrificing herself. No, freaking, way will she be a antagonist.
She will do what Aegon the conqueror did, treat well those who bend and obey, and kill those who don’t, like Aegon did at Harrenhall or the Field of Fire.
Yet why doesn’t anyone call him ”mad”?
The answer is obvious if you look into it a bit.
Mihnea,
His first statement makes the second statement irrelevant IMO..
I already gone back forth regarding this last year with him.
Let him have his way only 15 episodes left to prove those wrong.
dragonbringer,
Yeah, you’re right. It’s the ”she isn’t fireproof!!” debate all over again, though she was from S1 EP1.
Seriously I find it very funny when people say Dany will go mad or die or become a antagonist but they always refuse/are unable to give a answer as to how the WW will be beaten without her dragons.
Mihnea,
Dany haters with no solid arguments
Those are good ones. But don’t forget Danyroth.
I just can’t see how having the Dothraki as a force to take to Westeros would work. They’re all terrified of the sea, most would be sick during a voyage and would reach a foreign climate and terrain they are not equipped to deal with.
Castles and battle armour are going to be defence systems they aren’t equipped to overcome. The dragons are the ultimate weapon but is Dany going to start burning cities and all the common folk within?
Even in the event of a victory for Dany in Westeros, the Dothraki are not going to be able to settle there. They don’t speak the language, winter is coming and they are a people who are used to heat. The Westerosi would view them as savages and with suspicion.
Culturally it doesn’t work.
I’ve no idea how it’s going to pan out for Dany but at the moment I can’t see her taking the iron throne. Apart from anything else, the expression on her face during the burning of the temple in Vaes Dothrak simply suggested to me that she’s turning into her father!
Mihnea,
Exactly ..
There is always and had been double standards regarding dany ..which I think lot of people understood with the last episode ..she was damed if drogon came or damned if he didn’t ..
Now dothraki’s are considered fanatics for believing in dany as god but yet I saw no one claim wildlings as fanatics ..
There are two kinds of discussion in regards to dany in westeros .,for example ..
Say if the topic is about dany being able to conquer westeros..you wikl be getting comments like dothraki cant fight against knights and dragons are not like the knes aegons had and hers are basically babies ..
But if say the topic is about WW being the bad guy ..,then dany becomes the big bad guy with all those dragons and dothraki and unsullied .
What happened to all those claims of them being babies and weak ..just evaporated like writing in the wall.
I have yet to see who she us going to be antagonist against Euron .,cersei .,Faith militant or against the WW .
I agree, I don’t see Mad Dany in the slightest. Does she have a bit of a ruthless side to her where she can just shut off her emotions? (i.e. crucifying masters and feeding master to dragon). I’d say definitely. But I think that is just a product of her upbringing, she basically had 0 parents and a psycho abusive brother. It’s amazing that she can even be as warm as she is.
Halfman,
If their god orders them, they will cross the sea. A bit of seasick won’t kill them.
There won’t be a IT left by the time Dany arrives there, as the vision in S2 indicates.
The battle with the WW will have already started or will shortly.
She will be seen as a GOD.
We won’t have sieges, there won’t be time for that by the time she reaches Westeros. The Dothraki will obey her, for freaking sake, they most likely consider her a living god.
Dany burned savage rapists, who wanted to give her to their horses. She did what every Khal wants to do, as EP1 clearly states, ”what’s better then to kill a Khal and take his khalasar?”
And 10 minutes before, we see her showing compassion to a young girl who was abused by her husband, she isn’t going mad. She is embracing her roots ”fire and blood” Aegon the conqueror burned his enemies yet why doesn’t anyone cal him mad?
LatrineDiggerBrian,
It’s also good drama. She is conflicted as to what the ”right” choice is.
I think in the end she will turn into Aegon the conqueror, when ”politics” is concerned.
You kneel and obey, you will live.
You fight, you burn as Harren did and thousands others on the Field of fire.
There’s a big difference from burning your enemies to killing innocent people because the voices in your head told you so.
If Dany would have harmed or let Daario kill that young Dosh Khaleen, then I would have agreed, that she is crazy.
Mihnea,
I think there is a correction coming for Dany. She’s too powerful now. She has a ridiculously large army, 3 dragons, and all the ships she needs (she can just take them from Yunkhai). No way the Dothraki are making it to Westeros. Something bad is coming for Dany. I’m hoping at least, it will make the story so much more interesting
Mihnea,
I don’t know how one who is a small girl who is called as Mother of dragons or unburnt and does not know how to fight expects to kill others without dragons or fire.
I have no problem if people called her ruthless or harsh but mad she is not ..and the argument exists only because her father was one ..
I mean when arya killed trant she did have the expression of dany but she will not be called mad but maybe having sone darkness due to her suffer …I think the same applies to dany .
LatrineDiggerBrian,
What’s coming is the winter and along with the ending of this series ..
Let’s be real here dany and dothraki and her dragons are needed to fight WW ..mqybe some can question dothaki’s role in winter but all i have to say is we have to wait and see how its told.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
She will go to Westeros. I have no doubt about that in the slightest.
It would the horrible storytelling if she wouldn’t.
I also don’t think a ”correction” is coming, not yet. In my opinion Meereen was one.
Perhaps at the very end, she could die, but no way does she do that before shegets to Westeros and finds about the WW.
I actually see the Dothraki going to Westeros. There has been to much setting up and forshadowing, about them being scared of the sea. And even reminding us that Drogo wanted to do the same.
They will cross the sea, I’m about 80% sure about this.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have an issue with roasting the khals, I just felt that she seemed to enjoy it. She reminded me of Ramsay when he kills and I didn’t like it. Perhaps it’s a bit of misdirection from the director or a mistake on the part of Emelia. There’s been nothing else to suggest she’s going to become antagonist and I would hope that’s not the way it goes.
I’ve always liked Dany and her storyline and have been impatient for her to get over to Westeros.
I know seasickness doesn’t last but days of vomiting and fear leaves people weakened. It’s a very alien environment for the Dothraki, that’s what I mean.
If the WW are already on the attack, yes I can see Dany and her dragons as being to only way to win and she would indeed be the saviour.
It’s been a long time since I watched season 2. I don’t remember it suggesting there wouldn’t be an iron throne any more though. Can you remind me?
Somehow I see the end involving an alliance between Dany and Jon but I could be way off. Who knows with GOT.
She might already have a Ramsay heir in her tummy!
Halfman,
In S2 Dany has a vision with the IT, the keep is destroyed and it’s full of snow.
That’s the entire point of the Dothraki crossing. They will do what no Khalasar ever did. It doesn’t matter it’s ”alien” enviroment, she will bring them because she will need every fighter she can get, everyone will need them. How effective will they be, is a entirely different question. They will vomit for 2-3 days, we will get a funny scene with this, but it won’t stop her from bringing them.
There is a huge, huge difference from Ramsey to Dany. I saw nothing resambling this, there. I thought the acting was amazing.
She burned savage rapists who would have let their horses rape her. She enjoyed seeing her enemies die, she enjoyed having all the power and proving to these savages just how little they are compared to her.
There is a big difference here.
And in the very previous scene, we see her showing compassion to a young girl who was abused by her husband. She is simply embracing her heritage, her roots, ”fire and blood” as every Taragyan did before her. From Aegon the conqueror onwards, yet no one calls him mad…..And without a doubt he killed more people then Dany ever did.
Burned them alive, in their armors and castle, you think there were no women or children in harrenhall?
dragonbringer,
Mihnea,
Well, I hope it doesn’t just turn out to be Dany going to Westeros with a big ass army and an epic battle ensuing with the stupid ass zombies with Bran, Jon, Tyrion, Dany, some of them die, some of them live. Why would that be interesting?
Daeny’s always been like this though, she burnt that witch, fed those Meereen masters to her dragons too, and her sack of Astapor was similar, she loved it and so did the audience…I think the khals to her deserved the same fate as slavers, cos they are effectively that too (enslavers & rapists) – it’s quite typical of her personality to do what she did and sorta be pleased with her self whilst doing it.
Though she’s one of the goodies she’s not got the high morals and honour of the Starks – Ned, Robb or Jon would deal with enemies totally differently. Even after mutiny and being killed, Jon still hates himself for killing them – Daeny would have probably watched them burn and made others to watch too – man, she was even considering killing Jorah though she wouldnt have got anywhere without him!
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Because it’s been set-up from the very first season.
We are aproching the ending, we will only have 1, and without a doubt it will get clearer as we get closer.
The final will be without a doubt a battle with the WW, it’s been set-up from S1.
They won’t negotiate or talk terms, we may get a bit of backstory on them, but there will be a battle.
I think you are going to be vert dissapointed, if you think that the battle against the WW won’t be a huge part of the ending, I fully expect it to be the main and even sole focus after this season ends.
Mihnea,
I agree there is huge difference between Ramsay and Dany. I was just struck at the time by her face and it reminded me of him. I wasnt comfortable with it and although you saw it differently, it was the impression it gave me and a number of other people too it seems. I’m not sure it was the right way to portray her that’s all.
Thanks for the recap re the vision. Yes I remember now. It’s open to interpretation I think. The IT is still there, but winter has arrived and so has war.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Grrm have said that this is the story of these five characters add sansa if you want and this entire series as coming of age for this characters ..
A lot of people will be disappointed with the ending …is any series or story that ended didn’t left many disappointed .
Halfman,
Well its always been like that dany does like destroying hier enemies .
Well I took that look as her being confident ..
You see those khals think she doesn’t hold any power over them ..think she is her prisoner. .
But she knows they ate not keeping her prisoner but she is locked them inside as her prisoner ..and they are at her mercy ..
So ofcourse that gives her more confidence ..and that’s what Emilia and director says as well in behind the episode.
Halfman,
After her last season full of doubt and compromises, I thought it was the perfect way to portray her.
But this is way to subjective to argue. Let’s wait and see, but just like with her being fireproof, until we get strong evidence that she might go in that direction, I fully believe she isn’t and nor will she won’t go mad.
dragonbringer,
I think she did enjoyed it a bit. She enjoyed it after being almost powerless in Meereen and forced to compromise with people she hates.
Bring Back Benjen,
Even though I agree with what you said on the top ..
Have to disagree with what you said about jorah ..she didn’t consider it ..she is just asking what tyrion thinks she should do with him and sort of the testing his advicing abilities.
Halfman,
What did you think about arya’s face when she was killing meryn .
Iam asking because iam just curious because its always been joffery and ramsey and freys people jump to compare with her ..
I also think what you said about jon in regards with dany also dont count because say if she is supposed to kill someone like ollly she would feel the same way like Jon did ..
And the perfect example for this is her killing of mossodor ..you can see how much she hates that but still have to do that .
Alt Shift X has a good video on why an epic battle with Goodies United vs WW at the end is unlikely.
Once we find out about WW origin, it may become clear as to their motives. The great Azor Ahai of legend may well have been forced to negotiate in the end (he explains in the video), just like CotF and the First Men were made to…and now Wildlings and the NW have had to…Also, post-resurrection Jon isn’t too fond of fighting unless necessary.
Besides, it’s too expected & totally stereotypical of fantasy, one giant battle to end things – LotR style..
What’s being setup is that the fate of the world at the end of the series depends on this showdown between Jon’s ppl & WW – a battle may well ensue – but it’s likely to be repeated confrontation, some fighting, some losses, and eventually some compromise to get things as smooth as possible again.
dragonbringer,
Yeah, you can’t compare the Dothraki, who are savage rapists, to a young little boy.
Bring Back Benjen,
There won’t be a truce or negotiating. Of this no one can convince me otherwise.
I strongly dislike asoiaf ”theories” (I think 95% are wrong, or are way more complicated/complex then the very story Martin wrote)
We will see who is right, but as of know, no one will convince me there won’t be a battle.
You can not end this series with negotiating a truce, you simply can not.
Mihnea,
Yes she does ..but my question is whether she is enjoying her realizing she has this power or of those khals dying …kind of like bran who likes warging into hodor or summer but doesn’t think about them .
She doesn’t enjoy those things in the books though.
dragonbringer,
She enjoys being free, she enjoys teaching them a lesson, the same way she did back in Astapor.
It isn’t their bodies burning that she likes.
I think it’s more confidence the enjoyiment, though. She is, once more confident of herself and there is no doubt about the way foward, she knows exactly what must be done and knows she can do it.
Hello to everyone. This site https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/4k3d9v/jonathan_pryce_drops_major_spoilers/ ans in this one http://www.kawerna.pl/biblioteka/wywiady/item/12746-wywiad-z-jonathanem-prycem-serialowym-wielkim-wroblem.html, has an interesting interview of Jonathan Pryce. He says what will happen on Cersei Trial.
What do you think?
Ser Snake
LOL, but this is nothing but theorising from yourself too!
I’m not too fond of prediction theories too, just one or two guys who are based on facts, well explained and very accurate (listening to older ones shows they seems to have anticipated a lot of the direction things have gone in the recent seasons).
So despite GRRM going on and on about his world not being simply Good vs Evil , you still think the climactic ending will be just that?
Unconvincing to me
Bring Back Benjen,
”facts”, people theorising about how the story will go for 12 years, twisting the story and events to fit their narrative.
Yes I fully believe this. I’m more confident about this then I was about Dany being ”fireproof” I am convinced without a doubt there will be a final battle, some may die, like Dany and Jon…etc. But there will be one.
If there wouldn’t be, I would be beyond disapointed, and Martin would loose all respect from me. You can simply not end the series with them negotiating a truce. I also don’t think Martin is a genius writer, a good one, with some very big flaws, but not a once in a lifetime genius.
His last 2 books are more cliched and filled with tropes then many other fantasy series I read.
But I do not want to argue. It’s pointless to argue about things that didn’t even happen, so lets wait and see who is right.
With Ayra I saw hate, trauma, vengeance, amongst other things but not pleasure.
As far as killing Mossador goes, I felt that was a big mistake on her part, one for which she paid a price.
Halfman,
I saw pleasure there. She clearly enjoyed killing Trant.
I agree that it was a mistake, but she did try to do the right thing. Mossandor basically comited murder when she clearly stated that the Harpy will get a trial.
And it clearly was a very difficult decision, for her.
Not necessarily. The devil is in the details: “Three fires must you light . . . one FOR life and one FOR death and one TO love.” The first two are worded as if her fires had an outcome (which they did: dragons and khalasar). But the third is worded as if love is her motivation, not the outcome. This along with other little clues suggest that she’s going to die in the end.
MakeThemBurn,
A good guess. I agree.
Let’s also remember that this info wasn’t presented in the show.
We might get 3 fires, like in the books, and it will be ”important” to us book-readers, but that’s it.
So let’s not try to get to ”deep” with this, when it wasn’t even mentioned in the show.
Halfman,
See she definitely did like it…maybe you can see that when you watch again ..
That doesn’t mean she enjoyed it we were talking about having to struggle to kill not enjoying it right..she had to make that decision it was a mistake but it was right decision..
I don’t know what that scene achieve in the end because clearly people are still looking for when does dany returns and people still do and love daenerys in the books as well
dragonbringer,
Conflict. And shows she made the wrong decision to compromise.
Will see this when she returns and kills the masters and bends them into place, rather then trying to convincing them.
Mihnea,
I think its again shows people view starks and dany differently..
And that’s why they feel all the trauma arya suffered but not the pleasure she took in the killing ..
Dany did suffer since her birth and endured all the trauma..but I guess since it happened in the backstory people don’t relate to that ..
But I don’t know how one expects to react when they see 163 children crucified or process needed in creating unsullied.
She has endured all and emerged hardened and adopted to it .i mean what sansa is doing somewhat similar to what dany did way back in season 1 .
About the mossador scene again that scene was compared with joffery beheading Ned and riot in KL but not with job killing slynt or robb beheading karstark …but only with joffery ..
I don’t know what to make of it whether to take them as trolls or blind haters or simply misunderstanding what the scene is supposed to say
Mihnea,
Well she definitely did have conflict but i doubt people saw that .
I think what people tool away from that scene is it was a mistake and she made freed men hate her ..
But the freed men are still love her and waiting for when she will return like we saw last episode and in the books they look for her too and goes to fight the battle in the name of dany.
Nah, it’s probably
Two questions :
1.in the making video they say dany kills 21 khals and blood riders in the hut ..but I only see 15 ..
So did the numbers change or we still have to think it as 21 and because of logistics we cant get 21 inside the hut ..
2..that one guy who gave an irritating interview died as well or is he going to appear in the coming episodes .
I wi be honest i liked joe as khal moro I would have preferred to see more of him than that other guy or the one who survived and bowed to her .
Dany is a conqueror and there is a tough, ruthless side to her.
She came up with the plan to kill the khals before Khal Moro went on his rape rant. But it is like with the dragon barbequed master and the unsullied slave owner: if Dany is desperate enough and her opponents unpleasant enough she is well prepared to use violence.
In her eyes the Dosh Khaleen were controlled – the Dothraki Hotel California you can never leave. She felt justified.
I think the burn up is in keeping with who she is rather than something new.
And also those who kept mocking that those titles she have means nothing
If only people have listened to her once took them seriously there would have been a chance for surviving .
Flayed Potatoes,
the funeral pyre for Jorah? maybe that’s the third fire?
Daenerys the unburnt, i love her , fantastic character
blckp,
I agree
She is awesome – in my faves. A stark will always be number one. Then comes dany
I don’t actually disagree with many of your points – sorry, I can’t multi quote, I get in a mess lol.
We will just have to agree to disagree on how we saw Dany when she burnt the temple. It didn’t work for me and i don’t mean what she did, as people keep comparing it to other characters behaviour, I mean her reaction to it. It’s the only time I’ve seen that and it was out of keeping with her persona. That’s how I saw it, how others saw it will of course vary.
I’m not anti Dany by any means, she’s one of my numerous favourites on the show. It just didn’t fit for me, or perhaps it did and her character development is not going the way I envisaged.
Halfman,
What was her reaction to it that you didn’t agree with?
Halfman,
Am not saying you are ..I can definetely see where you are coming from but after hearing from the actors directors and showmakers its very clear they did not intent to be it anything other than an epic scene with dany emerging as a god like rebirth.
But there are people who simply keeps trolling with vitriolic and hateful comments…
People jump to make her look evil just by comparing Ramsey Frey and joffery ..even though circumstances are totally different.
So am just against them
Dee,
a question to you Dennessfan..did you see arya taking pleasure while she was killing grant .
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Lol the first thing I thought of was V from “V for Vendetta” lol 🙂
Its mad hypocritical how people treat Dany. And the only reason is because they feel she hasn’t suffered like the other characters. You know being raped, killed etc. The fact of the matter is , she has suffered just as much. Its just that most of it happened pre season one. You know, your entire blood line pretty much wiped out, mark for death and force to flee westeros with your crazy brother who beat her. She is across the narrow sea, there is no way she was going to face the same danger as in westeros. Prime example is Arya, whom we actually see suffer in westeros and goes to Braavos and faces none of this danger. Now it’s funny because people start critiquing Arya’s story line as they do Dany’s. Calling it boring , predictable etc.
dragonbringer,
Hi:)
I saw pleasure in the form of revenge, not like Joffrey kills people, or Ramsay. It’s revenge and anger that has built up for years after all the trauma she has been through – she felt the weight of it off her shoulders. So if you want to call that pleasure you can.
http://uproxx.com/tv/high-sparrow-game-of-thrones-finale-spoiler/
So I went back and watch the burning temple scene. Because I didn’t catch Dany enjoying burning people. Once again a figment of people’s imagination. Dany had a smile on her face when she was going back and forth with the Khals. When they actually started burning, there was no enjoyment as I hear people talking about. And by the way there are no parallel between her and the mad king. He was being manipulated by Varys. And why is burning different from chopping heads off or hanging?
In any case only one character actually enjoys killing that’s a protagonist and that’s Arya
Dany is far from evil?? How can anyone even say this? That’s madness.
She has the kindest heart and is only trying to do good.
The khals are horrible people. They are savages and killers… And that’s evident in how they’ve treated their former wives and she has seen what they can do. They were going to kill her if she didn’t kill them.
She is not evil. I have not read one solid argument supporting that.
Lyanna_Targaryen,
My thoughts as well, sadly.
And that will be the trigger/jumping-off point for the departure from Essos.
Beer Island,
Arya doesn’t enjoy killing. She is enjoys revenginh. Everyone she’s killed was revenge. Except the kid who was about to harm her. She was defending her self. Ramsay and Joffrey enjoy killing. Not arya.
Dee,
Thank you .
I agree with all what you said and I don’t think arya is becoming mad for that but certainly somewhat dark and ruthless to her enemies because of her sufferings..but she will still be kind and caring for the people she like
And I think the same applies for dany .
Do you agree
Ice Spider,
Welllllll Targaryens and their siblings, am I right?
dragonbringer,
For sure. You can see this with her interactions with the hound. She never wanted to hurt innocent people. And I don’t think that’s going to change. Her stint with the faceless men is just a phase and she will snap out of it
And the same goes for dany. Everything she has done was in defence of revenge, but she has good intentions and a very kind heart and she just wants to help people and she is not even close to MAD.
KG,
Don’t you think thats what happened during this fire .
Anyways looks Like dany will know about jorah’s disease next episode ..so I don’t think him dying will be shock to her to light a third fire
In the first one dany lost every thing and in the second one she was stripped away of everything.only to become more stronger and poweful than ever .
So the third one will be similar to that .
She gained dragons and then dothraki in the two fires and the third one will be big as well
Dee,
Thanks guys like you make me believe in the show and dany .
dragonbringer,
Definitely. She is an amazing character
Ice Spider,
I know nothing!
You seriously think burning and beheading are the same?
Chopping the head isn’t close to as torturous as burning is…hence Jon couldnt stand the sight of Mance being burnt. Would they even feel pain at the time of beheading? Think of how Ned, Robb and Jon did it quick as a flash….i admit hanging probably involves some painful suffocation, but burning is just merciless.
If Daeny’s not enjoying it, she sure is pleased with herself about it. The masters of Meereen burning she was toying with innocents…but I get it…it’s for slavers which she just can’t stand!
Arya’s is revenge…revenge against ppl who caused torture and pain!
MakeThemBurn,
Hope not. I want her to survive. It looks like every fire, she gains strength or something. So third one should be the same.
HoboJed,
Daeny to end up like Nissa Nissa? That would be terrible way to end a such an epic character. If she dies and I hope not, it must be all guns blazing.
I thought they were ashes, and the IT room looked like Harrenhal to me. My prediction is that by the time Dany arrives at KL, Tommen will have died and Cercei would have burned down the city.
Also, I think that people like the Mad Queen theory (including me, I liked, but don’t believe in it) because they fear that the plot will be:
– Dany arrives in Westeros to save the day
– Dany and Jon meet, fall in love
– Dany, Jon and Tyrion ride the dragons and burn the NK’s ass.
boooring… and predictable
Because it is so obvious that Dany is “the prince that was promised”, or at least one of them (the 3 heads thing), people expect that the series will subvert this narrative and it will be sort of Jon vs Dany the destroyer (the dragons are described as terrible things in the books, like weapons of mass destruction)
However, as much as I’d like that, I don’t think that’s the way Martin or D&D will take.
She has a lot of Aerys and Viserys in her. All that inbreeding will do that to you. But she probably won’t be a mad queen. The showrunners and GURM love her too much and the former have and will eliminate all the obstacles standing between her and the throne. She’s set to invade with an army or rapists and pillagers and burn the land to sit on a chair, but that will get swept under the rug. She’ll waltz into Westeros, burn some ice zombies and sit on the throne in the most anticlimactic finale ever. I’m not holding my breath for any setbacks, even though she’s overpowered as hell.
People think she’ll be mad on the show, but my guess it’s because Emilia has like….only two facial expressions.
Flayed Potatoes,
Good job insulting author show runners and actor all in one comment ..
Its basically been hit on the head that she is nothing like viserys or aerys and how she is Rhaegar’s sister and how she is reminded of him ..
But some think even rhaegar is mad so I guess you will be with them too .
Winter is delayed,
Agreed with what you ..
And me being in this fandom almost six years now …i think it also comes up a lot with insecurities of two particular fandoms being afraid that she will diminish their favorites and steal their thunder ..which is ridiculous ofcourse .
I will leave it to you people to guess who those two fandoms are .
dragonbringer,
Thanks.
And yeah she does share some traits (they are family after all), but it’s all about whether she’s able to reign them in as well (and in that case she does a better job than her brother and father). She has bits of Egg and Aegon the Conqueror too. Because….you know….family, blood etc. 😉
Dee,
I’m with you there! I don’t think she is evil, but I do think that she can act impulsively, as we’ve seen in the past. I don’t, by any means, think this was impulsive. The look on her face was kind of scary and made me think “Mad King” because she looked so satisfied, but then again I would be too if they had threatened me. I think the comparisons to Arya, who is much younger, are ridiculous.
Overall, let’s face it GOT is a great series and I enjoy all the characters (though was tired of Dany’s storyline dragging). There are a ton of theories and everyone thinks they are right, but I like to just “watch and see.” I don’t compare it to the books even though I enjoyed (some more than others) them also. I get so tired of the constant bickering.:(
Just my two cents on the matter: Daeny may be nothing like Viserys, but I do think that his influence still has some hold on her, foremost the idea of entitlement to a be the rightful ruler of a whole continent and the idea to take this continent back no matter what. This thinking can border on villany. It does not make her evil, mind you -the things she did in Essos, she did out of compassion for the slaves-, it makes her an ambigous character which is perfectly fine!
I absolutely do not think that she will become “mad” or “evil”, but I can see why some people may think that. Also, when she’ll come to Westeros, she may be perceived as an invader. It’s a matter of perspective.
But in the end, I have a feeling her final challenge will be to give up her entitled thinking, her claim to the realm, in order to save the realm and thusly do something utterly selfless to save the people of an entire continent. I don’t know what it will be, but I’m sure she’ll do it, because deep down she has a big big heart.
tl;dr She’ll be the saviour of Westeros, not the ruler, IMO.
Winter is delayed,
Daeny going full Mad Queen is a theory is more of a wishful thinking. Mainly coming from two sets of fans and by that I mean Stannis and Jon.
It was shown time and time again she’s not mad like Viserys or Aerys. Yes, she can be ruthless and extract vengeance but more to that later, when situation demands it or she probably should have tried to negotiate her situation out of Dothraki’s temple and be polite. No. A lot of people based their predictions for future on the way she burned nobles in Meereen. She had that look which Benioff later said that she is Aerys’ daughter and they needed to remind people of it. Like she has something of her father but she’s essentially a good person. Their way is Fire and Blood after all.
That’s what some fans fear ( I do some of it with epic love or riding dragons) and others want.
Daeny to save the day with Jon, Tyrion.
Meanwhile falling in love with Jon. (Not sure there is a time for it at least in the show.)
Riding dragons and to kick Night’s King ass.
Rule together as Queen and King with Jon and Tyrion as their Hand.
It just seems so unGeorge to do and since books and show will end pretty much in same manner. Jon vs Daeny would be a horrible way to go and when you have ice zombies to fight. Pretty much impossible but epic love story with a big victory for the good guys too. It’s about to find that middle ground. It won’t end in disaster but neither in entire satisfaction. Some Targaryen will most likely end up on Iron Throne and George spend good amount of time on them in other books. One way or the other.
Wylie,
But westeros is rightfully hers. .its not only come from her or viserys or fans who like her ..
But let’s take a look who else think she is the rightfull heir ..
1.Robert baratheon and everyone in his small council .
2.see barristan ..
3.varys and illyrio wants her so they can consolidate YG’s rule .
4.Doran thinks he can make use of her and make his son king
.same goes for Euron
5.last but not least people of westeros itself ..in AFFC we see the novices in oldtown drink in the name of daenerys targaryen ” rightful heir of westeros” .
And like she keeps thinking in the books its more of an duty to her ancestors to take back what’s lost than an entitlement to westeros..
I wish people just admitted the real reason they don’t like Daenerys is because they can’t stand a smart, strong and beautiful woman in a position of power. It’s so sad than women are still so misogynist, sometimes more than men; but I find funny than a lot of them seem to hate Dany because they know it’s only logical that Jon and Dany will be together and have at least one son to restore the Targaryen dynasty, and they can’t stand watch their crush with someone else…pathetic
Flayed Potatoes,
Well then you should have added that bit about egg and aegon the dragon in the first place then ..
Elizabeth,
Incase if you are referring to me I said dany as arya endured most suffering and trauma ..so it only makes sense when they both extract revenge or a kill their enemies they feel some pleasure out of it.
I don’t post that often but read every article and the majority of the comments and I just have to ask why on earth you bother watching this show? You seem to dislike everything about it, none of it interests you or excites you and every comment you make is to judge it and say ‘it’s boring’ – I just don’t understand why someone would waste so much of their own time on something they clearly don’t enjoy?
Dany won’t go mad.It won’t happen it’s just wishful thinking from fans.Also this story is way more straightforward than most people think at least in its third act.Grrm seems to me like a regular fantasy writer regarding plot,the diference comes with the characters and their development.And I don’t think that’s a bad thing the important thing is the execution.Also after 20 years of speculations and theories of course the ending will seem predictable we have basically read every ending possible lol.
To me Jon and Dany are like Voldemort and Harry,one can’t live if the other survives.One of them will die at the end otherwise it would be too much of happy ending.My money now it’s on dany but who knows really.And if she dies she will probably sacrifice herself at the last battle.
I don’t understand people’s logic sometimes. See, the same way nobody questions Sansa and Jon claim over winterfel, because they are the children of the one true Lord of Winterfell, Dany is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne because her father was the rightful king. Just like nobody believes that Ramsey has the right to be the Lord of Winterfell because he took it by force, I dont understand why there is still people who question Daenerys rights because the Baratheon/Lannister took the throne by force. Someone explain to me, please.
Daeryssa,
*claps*
dragonbringer,
The comments were about Dany going mad, so I just referenced the known mad ones. That was my mistake. It’s only natural for her to take after multiple members of her family. It’s the same with Jon, Sansa, Arya, Tyrion and other characters with families whose members we’ve heard a lot about.
dragonbringer,
I’m not arguing from an in-universe perspective about who is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne. IMO, if you’re argueing like that you’re buying into that whole “I’m the rightful heir and I take what is mine”-thing. It is not about being right in the end. That’s my whole point!
Daeny is an idealist who follows her convictions and what is right in her mind (in that regard she sometimes reminds me a bit of Stannis). If she does it out of duty or a sense of entitlement is not very relevant.
No matter if you’re right or wrong, if you invade a whole continent and take it by force, it’s a very questionable choice of action to say the least. If she does not question her actions regarding the invasion, she could come close to villany from the perspective of most of the people of Westeros IMO.
taim,
taim:
I am more interested in what happens with the white walkers than any of the dany stuff, sorry.
Well you better start paying attention because Dany will basically be “what happens with the white walkers”. When will people start realizing that Westeros is doomed without Dany & dem babies?
Gee,
Dany’s family took the kingdoms by conquest. It was not their divine right to rule in the first place. The Baratheons took the throne by conquest, so they rule. You conquer the throne….you have it. It’s as simple as that.
If Dany conquers the throne, it’s hers. If….idk Littlefinger conquers the throne, it’s his. I assume some also object because she hasn’t even set foot in Westeros, so they wonder how she will rule when she doesn’t seem to know much about it and the current political situation there. I admit that I’d be curious to see how she’d handle strictly Westeros-related issues like: Wildling invasions, or the needs of the NW, or how she would try to deal with Northern lords…
Jon and Sansa grew up in Winterfell. Sansa was born there. It was their home as countless scenes with the Starks there have shown (i’m pretty sure many remember the burning of Winterfell and two scared kids running away with Hodor and Osha to save their lives). There’s an emotional attachment that the viewers have to characters who are faced with setback after setback.
Dany never lived in KL. She wasn’t even born there. KL is not her home, but Dragonstone is (since she was born there and it also used to be the Targaryen home/seat for a long time). If she wanted to take Dragonstone, I don’t see why viewers would object. But the Iron Throne isn’t the same as Dragonstone. It represents something completely different. There’s probably also the fact that the Starks have been in Winterfell for thousands of years, as opposed to the 300 when the Targaryens ruled, so some Northern families would be willing to help because there’s a lot more history behind it. Idk….that’s how I’d interpret things…
You mean like having your entire family murdered? No, you mean like having to literally run from mercenaries your whole life? No no no, you must mean getting raised by a psychotic brother. Or do you mean like being sold off like a slave? Or maybe losing your husband and child to black magic? Which one is it?
Where does this idea come from that Dany hasn’t been through shit?
Jenny,
Agree with everything you said.
Especially on Martin’s writing of the 3rd act.
People look for complexity and ”nuance” where there is none, or very little.
They ignore the obvious answer that is right in front of them.
Wylie,
But that’s what the story is based upon right family and wars and legacy ..
What you want her to do ..just live out the rest of days in a rich house and die away .
I don’t mind one bit about conquering or retaking the kingdom ..
What I mind is if she has a good heart and cares for her people ..
I think she does and we have seen the proof of that and she is only one that has shown any compassion to the people than we have seen those who are actually ruling Westeros ..
If say viserys conquers in the place of dany I won’t cheer for him because he doesn’t care about people but he still have that right to fight for what he had lost .
Halfman,
She looks like she enjoys it because she does enjoy it. Here’s the thing. Her enemies ALWAYS underestimate her. They taunt her, threaten her, humiliate her, etc. So yeah, when they finally get the burning they deserve it’s funny! Because they were talking so much shit but look look who’s laughing now bitch! I would be laughing too!
Flayed Potatoes,
This is all semantics .
But they have a right to fight to take back ..
After all boltons conquered north as well.
Starks as well as other first men and andals all once came as invaders to westeros ..they have fought countless battles and wars to enlarge their territory
Dany being not a westerosi is ridiculous one IMO because she has been raised as westerosi she follows the new gods ..
Like I said everyone in universe approves of dany’s right to the seven kingdoms ..
It doesn’t matter 800 years or 300 years …300 years of ruling the seven kingdoms is equal to ruling 800 years of north .
And your point about starks losing a family and house …that’s why I feel more for dany than starks…starks at least know what their home was and how it feels to have a family ..
But dany doesn’t get to have a family and did not know what her home is ..
You can see I’m those early episodes how much she yearns for that house ..
Or how much she misses a family a home or ateast a person to trust and take care of her in the books .
It is understandable for her being happy to have the ability to vanquish men that talk of doing bad things to her but nobody can deny there’s the danger of getting a God-complex and letting that power go to her head since she has special powers nobody else seems to have.
Yes, she’s a good person now, but she also is, to put bluntly, full of herself. Being young and wielding lot of power could corrupt. Note difference between Dany and Jon. He says “I’m not a God” And she plays God (or at least has god-like abilities.) He fought to save the realm, she is fighting to create an army to take the throne for herself. With “fire and blood” (dragons are cool but would you want a conqueror to bring 3 of them to your land?) He’s tired of fighting and felt bad even executing people who killed him. She relishes in the carnage because it brings glory to her. There being magical forces at play ( I would say Gods but heard Martin say there are none?) that are represented in these 2 characters and the most likely thing imo is there’s going to be a clash, at least initially. After all, they aren’t just going to meet, fall in love and co-rule after fighting off the WW together. That’s b-o-r-i-n-g. There will be some friction.
ygritte,
Another silly comparison I have to say …and I like especially how you said Jon fights for realm but dany wants to invade westeros and simply neglecting freeing slaves and caring for them .
She’s been ‘smiling & killing & smiling’ since season 2.
– When she locked Xaro Xhoan Daxos and that other girl in the safe.
– She was semi-smiling when Drogon and his brothers aka dem babies set Pyat Pree on fire.
– She wasn’t particularly smiling during the whole Dracarys moment but.. actually YES. She was smizing. Smiling with her eyes. Definitely.
– She was definitely smiling at the Yunkai representative, the Second Sons and their threats.
– She smiled again when she served Rhaegal and Viserion some fresh slave master.
– And finally she’s been smiling since the beginning of season 6.
Basically this is nothing new, girl.
I wouldn’t want to read that story, but it is possibility for her to live her life. She choses not to do so, but buys into the narrative that Viserys told her all her life, namely that Westeros belongs to the Targaryens and was wrongfully taken from them.
Buying into that narrative comes with complications and makes Daeny an ambigous character that can be viewed as a villain from the perspective of those people who she’ll ultimately conquer.
That does not make her “evil”, as I already said, deep down, she has a good heart and wants to to what’s good for those people with whom she has compassion.
But IMO, where she is now as a character, she would drop and atom bomb to stop Hitler. It would stop him, but it would also be very destructive.
I think Daeny will become a positive character for Westeros in the end, but not until she cares more about the people of Westeros than about her right to rule. Conquering by all means because she thinks it’s good for the people, is very questionable. That’s why I think she might possibly sacrifice herself in the end for the greater good.
It would of course be ironic that Daeny coming to westeros with her army and her dragons would at the same be time a blessing because she can help fight the walkers.
Gee,
I think your take on the reasoning behind other people’s opinions of a character are simplistic and immature. I don’t hate Daenerys and wish her well, I wish her a future where she finally reaches the red door she’s always dreaming about. But if I had to choose between Dany and Jon as my ruler, I prefer Jon and not because I’m a misogynist but because I prefer Jon’s style. He kills but there’s never glee in his eyes when he does it, not even when he’s killing bad guys. Dany’s killings often make me uncomfortable. Her fire and blood, approach? She will conquer alright but will Targaryen rule be able to endure? Doubt it, specially if no other dragons are hatched.
RJ,
I think that’s the issue. Most of the big setbacks Dany had took place before the show and on season 1. It’s telling vs. showing. Some are much more likely to connect and emphasize with what they see.
The big setbacks she had were in season 1 when Drogo and her son died. After that it’s been victory after victory with no major setback. She makes mistakes, but they are resolved easily and the consequences aren’t threatening. Other characters make mistakes that are just as big and they die. She had some small hurdles, but they were easily resolved when you compare them to the ones other characters experience.
She is betrayed by Jorah and he’s immediately replaced by Daario. She doesn’t even think about or mention Jorah on the show until he re-appears. She loses Barristan and she’s visibly upset, but the consequences don’t really manifest themselves because he’s immediately replaced by Tyrion (and Varys), who have come to fix the issues in Meereen. All suspense is lost imo because you are not left wondering what she is going to to and how she is going to get out of a sticky situation. You know Tyrion is coming to advise her, you know from the moment she enters the hut in VD that those khals are toast (no pun intended) and she’ll be fine.
RJ,
Calm down peeps. Sharing our theories about where a writer’s imagination might be going in a work of fiction doesn’t necessarily mean that is where WE would like the story to go.
Lmao that’s rich.
Tell that to the Lannisters in KL, Starks (who probably don’t know she exists), Tyrells, Boltons, and almost all the other major families who are busy with their own lives right now to care about her claim. The whole world doesn’t revolve around her wants and needs.
Wylie,
I get what you are saying but I wont fault her for to want to take back what she had lost or doing her duty as last living person of the great house ..
Flayed Potatoes,
So you didn’t read what I said in that post ..
Every one from Robert and tywin and even joffery cared and even common people acknowledges she has the right that doesnt mean they will step back amd let her take the throne.
And I didn’t say that it resolves either ..
Maybe you can read that post so you can understand what I said ..
People and major houses acknowledging her right is what matters ..it shows she really has a claim and not an imaginative one and there are those who want targs back as well.
dragonbringer,
What common people? Did I miss the citizens of Westeros screaming her name on the streets in these seasons?
You said “approves”. Tywin, Joffrey, Robert never approve of it, but know that she can take the throne if she wants to because they hear of Dothraki, dragons, Unsullied…etc. It’s the use of “approve” that implies they accept it, when they don’t. They would have taken steps to eliminate everyone with large armies and ambition who wants the throne. It’s only natural to take out your threats. Whoever conquers and takes the city, gets the throne (as Stannis tried to do at Blackwater).
http://www.hellou.co.uk/2016/05/maisie-williams-and-sophie-turner-played-two-truths-and-a-lie-with-got-spoilers-92256/
Flayed Potatoes,
Again you didn’t read my post ..
Yes they do novices in AfFC drink and cheer on the name of dany as rightful queen
And we have some common folk around riverlands who say that they preferred targs than roberts rule ..
yes they accept that she has claim and recognize it ..i mighy have said the word approve wrongly but its openly said by Robert that if dany comes people and lords who consider him as usurper will join her and they mention her as princess whenever they speak about her .and he was so afraid that he decided to kill her and same applies for tywin so he decided to weaken her .
dragonbringer,
Not on the show, sorry. We’ll see if it appears then this season.
Flayed Potatoes,
It will definetly not going to be showed in the show ..
They have largely removed most of the human side of dany and all her compassion and self doubts ..
dragonbringer,
You know, I can’t fault her either. It makes for a compelling story 😀 As of now, with the great power she wields, she has the potential to be both the messiah and the destroyer. This makes her interesting to me, although, as I said, I highly suspect that in the end she’ll use her powers responsibly to save Westeros. I’m very much looking forward to her arc this season.
Wylie,
Yes and this is what I believe as well ..
I think she will eventually realize that her house with red door never exist and if it did it was lost long ago and she will never get that and in the end she will sacrifice herself for the sake of westeros.
Gee,
They do hate her because of power, position and being strong. That is sadly truth. Very rare to find someone who loves both of them Daeny and Jon but still not sure where did you get Daeny and Jon being together and having kids. That is so unlike George and in fact it would be kind of predictable outcome. Sure a lot of people would enjoy it but I feel thy wouldn’t match well together, in fact is there even a time for it?
The women of this board are by no means misogynist and we all have our favorite female characters, just because it might not always be YOUR favored one doesn’t call for that kind of divisive conclusion. I really don’t know what else to say to this lol. We are mostly adults here from what I can tell, and your argument would seem to apply to an immature viewer. And hey, since I care for JS I want him to find love and not end up alone. I’d like it to be with someone other than Dany because I don’t find them compatible. So what if I tell you I liked him with Ygritte? Is she not “strong, smart and beautiful” enough for you?
dragonbringer,
Well, I didn’t come up with that. I read where someone else brought it to attention. Somewhere on this board but so many comments here I don’t remember where or who. Anyways, it is true that she freed slaves but that person said if you look at it from another point of view she could be seen as having ulterior motive in that she needs an army, and that’s the perfect way to do it and side benefit they look at you as savior.
Anyhow, this board has taken a weird turn for the worst a the moment in this thread. I can’t believe how argumentative the tone has turned. If anyone dare say anything more complex than “Dany is just about perfect and so kind” they get bashed. Not saying you personally cause I didn’t make note of any names but anyhow screw it I’m out for now lol. 🙂
ygritte,
And how many times ygritte slaughtering those villages of olly’s and moles town have come up while discussing jon and ygritte as a pair …
Are they compatible it seems jon fights for saving the realm and ygritte kills and slaughters the people jon is defending ..
Lets be honest it all comes down to one’s personal taste ..you prefer having ygritte paired with Jon its your preference I get that.
But saying Jon deserves someone better or dany is not worthy of Jon (am not saying you said but most do ) or coming up with comparison or differennces to show they can’t be matched is just plain silly .
ygritte,
Well then you have to said to that person how wrong they are..
Should i need to remind we have POV of her …a window to what dany actually thinks ..
When she was freeing astopor yunkai and meereen they are not for her army but because she care for them and she sees she can help and since they can’t help themselves she tries to help them
She is the only one who cares for the common people ..she had put down her own ambition of taking westeros for these people ..
Well if there is one comment like that there are hundreds of trolling and hateful comments on dany
RJ,
Like I said, only because it happen pre season one of GOT. Oh and Khal Drogo raped her when he first married her. People have tinted bias to Dany because she has dragons and she speaks with bravado and confidence
Geralt of Rivia,
She won’t die, per se. She will live on in the sword (Nissa-Nissa’s soul and whole being went into Lightbringer). It will be the last “mount” that she rides, and the last “treason” she will know (stabbing a queen through the heart is treason, even if it is for the right reasons) 🙂 Notice how the last of each of those triplets are all for love?
Of course I’m probably wrong, but that is just how I see it. I don’t see it as a terrible ending for her. If she allows it without hesitation or conviction, how is that not an epic ending? It would totally show her to be a hero in a way that merely defeating the big bad ever could.
Can’t go back through everybody’s responses but there is no way u can be wrong in having glee in the demise of people who wish u harm or harm to others. I am yet to see where Dany took someone innocent like the mad king did to the Stark father and son and enjoyed killing them. She tried , still trying to end one of the most sinful institution in slaver, when she could have left mereen to go back to westeros to claim the throne. Its not like she was doing it to get more men etc.
In any case like I said i don’t see enjoyment of this killing. If this was the case she would have been happy to go enjoy the fighting pits and had to be convinced to go there.
Does she speak and act with a certain swagger, confidence, bravado. Certainly. That’s not enjoying killing and people need to learn to differentiate the two.
I agree completely. Also it’s sad that GRRM has a huge hard on for the Targs because 95% of the background lore is simply on the Targs. We get almost NOTHING on the Starks, who are far more awesome and interesting. It’s all about the Targs being unstoppable badasses during Aegon’s invasion, all about the Dance of Dragons, the blackfryes, Dunk & Egg…
I feel like S1/Book 1 Robert Baratheon when it comes to Targs now… not to mention Jon is one and very possibly Tyrion… also Aemon the wise at the wall… and the three eyed raven… and in the books fucking griff (the WORST part of the entire book saga). GRRM really loves to shove them in whenever he can… it’s.. boring.
Sue the Fury,
Touché
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Could also be Dario’s??
It’s all up in the n the air now that we are off book, but remember Euron?? I wouldn’t be surprised if the ships come from the iron islands. Yara quote, something about we are stronger at sea??
Bearded Onion,
Yup.
I enjoyed “The World of Ice and Fire”, but so much of it is about the Targ kings, whereas we don’t know that much about the old Starks or other families. Some of the other major families have interesting backgrounds as well. The Stark kids have the most POV chapters as a whole too, and they’re positioned as a central family (if not the central family from the first books). Wasn’t the original title of “A Dream of Spring” supposed to be “A Time for Wolves”?
The worldbuilding is interesting and all, but George really glorifies the entire Targaryen reign, when most of the kings were actually pretty terrible and there was a lot of instability. Not to mention their whole obsession with marrying just to keep the blood pure (and their special Valyrian features intact) borders on supremacist imo. Is it really a surprise so many of them were off the rails? I heard somewhere (idk if it’s true) that he plans on writing a book strictly about the Targaryen reign after he’s done with ASOIAF (lol), so that train isn’t stopping.
RJ,
I didn’t say she hasn’t had bad things happen, I just think right now she’s a little too powerful and to make the story more interesting, “a correction” might be coming.
Daeryssa,
Well, if you read my comments in the GoT50 posts you would see there was a lot of praise. I only criticize season 6 so far because I love the show. I don’t watch to root for my favorite character or whatever, I want to be wowed by the story telling. So far they’ve accomplished that through 5 seasons and have set the bar really high. I’ve been let down so far in season 6, but there is still time for me to change my opinion.
Bring Back Benjen,
I’ll have to check that out. I hope the ultimate final confrontation (after WW battle) is between humans in a room, maybe an uber powerful Euron vs whoever.
dragonbringer,
Mihnea,
I know there is a certain inevitability to the major show down between the White Walkers and Jon, Bran, Dany, etc., I just hope how we get there is a little unpredictable.
Halfman,
The way I see it:
Dany has to win over all the people of the world (or representatives of them) and bring them with her to the fight against the WW. That way its everybody against the WW.
Also (if a little off topic as a response to you): Of course its going to be the three heads of the dragon that we always suspected. Why else would their families be so strongly represented throughout the book/show. They will join and together save the world. The question is: will they survive to join in the rebuilding?
Flayed Potatoes,
The Targaryen weren’t foreign kings who never married into other families. If you actually look at Dany’s bloodline, she has more First Men blood than she does Valyrian blood. She has Dayne, Martell, Arryn blood, and a large amount of Blackwood blood. She’s basically half Blackwood, and the Blackwoods ruled the Wolfswood before even the Starks did. So Dany DOES belong in Westeros.
If the Iron Throne were to be torn apart and the lands divided like they were in the past, then yes I could see Dany only having a claim to Dragonstone. But as long as the Iron Throne still stands, which her family created and built, then Dany has every right to take it back. Just like the Starks have a right to take back Winterfell.
ygritte,
Most fangirls who say they liked Ygritte say that because she is dead now and doesn’t see her as a “threat”, if she was alive and with Jon they would hate her as much as Dany. I came to the conclusion most people who hate Dany ans can’t stand anyone saying anything postive about her because they react exactly like you did, are misogynist and fangirls because of all the nonsense reasons they post. If you don’t like a character it’s perfect, you have every right to dislike whoever you want, but don’t come here making up ridiculous reasons to justify your hate, just because you don’t want to admit the real reason you hate her so much, because you know it will make you sound bitter and petty.
Is the Dothraki fear of the sea foreshadowing?
If most / all of Dany’s unstoppable invasion force sank (say, in a storm), you might be left with 3 dragonriders and no other survivors. Can lightning harm a dragon?
Just a thought alla “where are the galleons of Spain?”.
Gee,
Listen bud, I never said I hated Dany so I don’t know where the hell you come off making accusations. You don’t know me. OK so the only reason I liked Jon with Ygritte is because she died? Really? How in the world did I like them together when she was alive then?! I did not KNOW she was going to die because at that point I knew nothing about the books! Listen, I have a career, a family and a life and this TV show and this forum is just escapist diversion, nothing more. It’s supposed to be fun. It is no longer fun when people take it so seriously that they personally attack my character, projecting their own personal political/social views onto why a fictional character might or might not resonate perfectly with me. People really need to chill and stop letting their personal bias or hang-ups cause them to attack others because it’s just silly! Wow, just freaking wow.
dragonbringer,
Hello, no Ygritte was not perfect by any means. I’m not comparing her to Dany. I’m comparing the two women’s personalities and how I think they play off of Jon’s character, and I just feel Ygritte’s personality and temperament goes better with Jon’s than Dany’s would. That’s all, nothing more to it. It will be interesting to see how they are together when they meet, I might change my mind then.
Uh, warriors only? Dothraki fight from horseback, not? They have more than one horse each (dummies if they don’t have…horses live shorter / harder lives than the D’s). Say, 50,000 horses (shared communally), with each taking the space of several people.
Of course, it’s fiction so we’ll just LF this one. Magically, 40,000 mounted warriors arrive to save the day. Not from what I’ve seen so far. There’s a wrench missing.
Flayed Potatoes,
This prophecy has kept me awake at night. I’ve been trying to guess for years now and won’t be able to rest until I know the answers.
My thoughts so far:
“three fires must you light… one for life (Drogo’s bonfire bringing dragons to life) and one for death (finally saw that come to pass-Khal BBQ) and one to love (hasn’t happened yet)…three mounts must you ride… one to bed (Drogo or Dario) and one to dread (Drogon…causing dread to her enemies) and one to love (once again, Drogo or Dario, OR someone she has yet to encounter)…three treasons will you know… once for blood (Mirri Maz Duur) and once for gold (many say Jorah, but he wasn’t getting money but rather a pardon, I think this hasn’t happened yet) and once for love (hasn’t happened yet)…”
The interesting thing is the wording says “to love”, not “for love”, regarding the fire and the mount.
How do you “love” a fire. Why not have it say once FOR love? That’s confusing to me. It would make more sense that she would light a fire to save someone she loves, not that she would love the actual fire.
Maybe the treason prophecy refers to the fact that she isn’t necessarily betrayed by someone she loves or who loves her, but rather she is betrayed by someone to save THEIR loved one. Like the Sons of the Harpy kidnap Missandei, and Grey Worm must betray Dany to save Missandei.
And the mount to love would be whoever she is truly in love with?
Was Drogo to bed or to love, was Dario to bed or to love, or someone new?
And the fire…to love…maybe this will be the epic fight with the white walkers, and her dragons create the ultimate nuclear firestorm in the north to kill all the walkers? And she loves her epic fire.
Dothraki Hotel California….hahahahahaha