Kit Harington talks leaving behind Game of Thrones, from the Golden Globes red carpet!

Kit and Rose love

The 76th Annual Golden Globe Awards took place this evening at The Beverly Hilton Hotel in Beverly Hills, California. It wasn’t a big year for Game of Thrones at the awards, but show star Kit Harington pulled in a nomination for Best Actor in a Drama Series, and turned out to present at the ceremony as well. Harington appeared at the Globes with wife and former co-star Rose Leslie on his arm, with the couple looking happy and gorgeous on the red carpet. Unfortunately, Harington lost the prize to Brian Cox of HBO’s Succession.

A few pics from the red carpet:

Kit Harington

Jason Momoa (Khal Drogo) with Lisa Bonet. The couple brought their own style as usual, a welcome change from an otherwise mostly unsurprising collection of red carpet looks.

jason momoa

Rose Leslie looking ravishing in sheer green, a great compliment with her red hair:

Rose Leslie

Oddly enough, Tobias Menzies, who played Edmure Tully on GoT, was also up for Best Performance by an Actor in a Television Series – Drama this year, for his role as Prince Philip on The Crown.

Tobias Menzies

Actress Sienna Miller presented with Harington, handing off the award for Best Foreign Film to Parasite.

Sienna Miller Kit Harington

Talking to E!’s Ryan Seacrest from the red carpet before the show, Harington looks back on playing Jon Snow for a decade and admits to it being a challenge to detach from GoT.


It’s strange to think we don’t have many more events like these! Perhaps we can look forward to more group cast pics from the SAG Awards on January 19th?

174 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. Brilliant series from start to finish that’ll I’ll rewatch and cherish forever. I’ll always be grateful. Thank you Kit, thank you Mr. Benioff and Mr. Weiss and thank you to the entire cast and crew. You all made cinema history

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    2. Nice to see Rose again! 😊 And I am a fan of Brian Cox, so I guess that makes it a bit better. Still, Kit was brilliant in the series from start to finish – I’ll rewatch it and cherish it forever. I’ll ALWAYS be grateful! Thank you Mr. Harington, Ms. Leslie, Mr. Momoa, and Mr. Menzies, and thank you to the entire cast and crew. You all made cinema history. ❤

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    3. “Harington appeared at the Globes with wife and former co-star Rose Leslie on his arm, with the couple looking happy and gorgeous on the red carpet. Unfortunately, Harington lost the prize to Brian Cox of HBO’s Succession.”

      Looking at the photo of Kit with Rose, I think he won the prize.

      [photo]: “Rose Leslie, looking ravishing in sheer green, a great compliment with her red hair.”

      That dress was made of the purest silk from Tralalalalaeeday.

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    4. Pigeon,

      Pigeon!
      Off-topic, but I wanted to thank you for your recommendation a while back of “The Book Group” with Rory McCann, and let you know I found on YouTube (subtitled “Just Kenny”) eleven clips of what appear to be all of Rory’s scenes in each of 11 episodes.

      I‘ve started watching them…

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    5. Ten Bears:
      Pigeon,

      Pigeon! Off-topic, but I wanted to thank you for your recommendation a while back of “The Book Group” with Rory McCann, and let you know I found on YouTube (subtitled “Just Kenny”) eleven clips of what appear to be all of Rory’s scenes in each of 11 episodes.

      I‘ve started watching them…

      Oh good! It’s a fun little series full of neurotic individuals (lol), and if I recall correctly, Rory used his experience of falling off a cliff-face while climbing and nearly shuffling off this mortal coil to his advantage in playing the wheelchair-bound Kenny. It has some good little moments. I’m pretty sure I watched most of it again on YouTube as well, as it is pretty much impossible to find anywhere!

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    6. “Harington appeared at the Globes with wife and former co-star Rose Leslie on his arm”

      Ah yes, the supportive female worn like some sort of jewel on his arm. Words matter at all times to extinghuish patriarchal stereotypes, Sue, I expect better from you.

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    7. Well with almost the entire award season over, it truly feels that Game of Thrones now belongs to the past. It will only live in our memories.

      I hope House of the Dragon can make me excited again because no show after GoT really did it.

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    8. A great way to start the new year for Kit. Congrats.
      Looking forward to his new work.
      Rose, goodness, what a dress! I envy women who can wear green.

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    9. Tar Kidho,

      There’s nothing wrong with supporting your man.
      There’s nothing wrong with supporting your woman either.

      People need to support each other. That’s what being in a relationship is all about. If you can’t support him/her, better stay on your own.

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    10. mau,

      I totally agree. There are some really good shows, but they are just shows while Game of Thrones is a phenomenon created by the masterminds Mr. Benioff and Mr. Weiss and of course Mr. GRRM and nothing can compete with it. I’ve watched season 8, 10 times because I’m still amazed how brilliant it was from start to finish.

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    11. Unlucky Kit, I’ve not heard of the show who won the award but hopefully he finds a way to reinvent himself and achieve further nominations in future. I know his non-Thrones movies have been widely panned but I am thinking to give Gunpowder a watch in the coming weeks, has anyone seen it?

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    12. mau:
      Well with almost the entire award season over, it truly feels that Game of Thrones now belongs to the past. It will only live in our memories.

      Hmmm. I thought the real awards aren’t going to be over until we vote on wotw’s “Best of” for all eight seasons.

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    13. Jon Snowed:
      … hopefully he finds a way to reinvent himself and achieve further nominations in future.

      Kit Harington aka Jon Snow is going to reunite with Robb Stark (Richard Madden) in Marvel’s “The Eternals” due out in Nov. 2020. Angelina Jolie and Salma Hayek star in it too.

      As if to prove that you can take a Brother in Black out of Castle Black but you can’t take Castle Black out of a Brother in Black, Kit will apparently be playing “the Black Knight,” a sword-wielding hero.

      All Hail King Crow!

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    14. Thanks I wasn’t aware that Kit had been cast (I had seen Richard) but I loved the Marvel stuff which Netflix produced so if it’s similar quality that could easily help him lose the typecast of Jon Snow. Only downside is that it will presumably only be available on Disney+.

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    15. Jon Snowed,

      I’ve seen it and did enjoy it. Guy Fawkes seems to be the name most people remember from the attempt to blow up the King and Parliament in the 17th century but he wasn’t the major plotter. Kit plays his own ancestor on his mother’s side, Robert Catesby, who basically organized the plot. Catesby is Kit’s second name. I admit my bias though as I’m a huge fan of period pieces and of KH.

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    16. Ten Bears and others interested, Maisie’s new trailer for X-men New Mutants dropped today (just as Ten Bears said it would) and is much improved than the old trailer. Maisie is in more of it (changing into a wolf). It’s on YouTube.

      Sorry Kit didn’t win last night but Leslie and Kit really are an awesome couple.

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    17. Tron79,

      I just watched the “New Mutants” Trailer #2 (released today, Jan. 6, 2020)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_vJhUAOFpI

      Though it’s “fast-paced” and the scenes flash by quickly, I see Maisie Williams at:
      0:41 – 0:50; 1:25; 1:42; 1:50; 1:55 – 2:01.

      Maybe because the movie was filmed back in 2017, or maybe because Maisie sports a GoT S2-S3 Arry-type haircut, in the trailer she looks like the “tween” Maisie from the middle seasons of Game of Thrones.

      And yes! Maisie is in more of this new trailer than the first one released in October, 2017. (Smart marketing, I suppose. The filmmakers have to know there’s a built-in ASNAWP™️ fan base out there.)

      ™️ talvikorppi 2018
      (For the uninitiated, ASNAWP = “Arya Super Ninja Assassin Warrior Princess,” unwittingly coined by commenter talvikorppi.)

      #Wolfsbane
      #KickAllYouWantWolfGirl

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    18. Efi:
      Tar Kidho,

      There’s nothing wrong with supporting your man.
      There’s nothing wrong with supporting your woman either.

      People need to support each other. That’s what being in a relationship is all about. If you can’t support him/her, better stay on your own.

      Not to inflame the debate or anything, but you’re right. Kit Harington was nominated for a Golden Globe. That his wife Rose Leslie accompanied him to the ceremony didn’t make her “arm candy.” They both looked gorgeous and happy together. That can’t be a bad thing…

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    19. Ten Bears:
      Tron79,

      I just watched the “New Mutants” Trailer #2 (released today, Jan. 6, 2020)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_vJhUAOFpI

      Though it’s “fast-paced” and the scenes flash by quickly, I see Maisie Williams at:
      0:41 – 0:50; 1:25; 1:42; 1:50; 1:55 – 2:01.

      Maybe because the movie was filmed back in 2017, or maybe because Maisie sports a GoT S2-S3 Arry-type haircut, in the trailer she looks like the “tween” Maisie from the middle seasons of Game of Thrones.

      And yes! Maisie is in more of this new trailer than the first one released in October, 2017. (Smart marketing, I suppose. The filmmakers have to know there’s a built-in ASNAWP™️ fan base out there.)

      ™️ talvikorppi 2018
      (For the uninitiated, ASNAWP = “Arya Super Ninja Assassin Warrior Princess,” unwittingly coined by commenter talvikorppi.)

      #Wolfsbane
      #KickAllYouWantWolfGirl

      I have a feeling I’m going to be saying…”where’s Maisie” alot in this movie though. It looks like Anya Taylor-Joy has the biggest role? Anya is spelled alot like Arya. Maybe that should have been Maisie’s role! But I think you’re right that Maisie was younger when this was filmed. She may have been too young looking for the lead or they might have just said since they call her “Wolf Girl” in GOT, let’s really make her a wolf girl in the New Mutants. The other young guy with the hat is the same guy who’s in Stranger Things isn’t he? I guess I could just google it, but he looks pretty familiar. I’m happy for Maisie though. I remember in a random YouTube interview she was wondering what the f’k was going on, since New Mutants was filmed so long ago and it never came out. Her role in Spring Awakening in a few years is also a teenager. I wonder if she’ll be able to continue to pull off playing younger teens or whether she’s going to want to be seen as older at some point. You don’t want more people to complain like they did with Gendry’s scene, since they see her as so young when she isn’t. I just re-watched 1-5 on my DVD btw. Sorry Gendry that Arya shot down your proposal…

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    20. Jon Snowed:
      Thanks I wasn’t aware that Kit had been cast (I had seen Richard) but I loved the Marvel stuff which Netflix produced so if it’s similar quality that could easily help him lose the typecast of Jon Snow.Only downside is that it will presumably only be available on Disney+.

      Oh, I didn’t know “The Eternals” will presumably only be available on Disney+. From the big names in the casting news, and articles suggesting that “The Eternals” is introducing a bunch of new characters to the Marvel universe with an eye towards a possible stand-alone franchise if the first film is successful, I thought the movie was slated for release in theaters in November, 2020.

      Either way, I hope there will be a “reunion” of Snow and Stark, since the “next time” they’d see each other on GoT (envisioned during their S1 parting) never happened.

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    21. mau: I hope House of the Dragon can make me excited again because no show after GoT really did it.

      I don’t know if there will ever be a show again that will be so “perfect for me.” I’ve enjoyed many programs and will find more that I like, but I’ve never been as excited to watch a show and participate in discussions about it year around like GoT. I’m doubting I will find another one like that. It’s a tall order for HotD, but we CAN hope.

      I really tried to capture something similar with The Witcher. I read the books and participated on a reddit leading up to the S1 release… I watched all the episodes and while I did find if mostly enjoyable, apart from the constant, jarring time jumps between scenes, there are just things that it is not and is missing elements to the story that hold it back (for me). I also now have little desire to participate in discussions regarding the series. It’s ‘just a show’ imo. It’s entertaining but doesn’t feel…. … epic?

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    22. Tron79: I have a feeling I’m going to be saying…”where’s Maisie” alot in this movie though. It looks like Anya Taylor-Joy has the biggest role?
      ***
      But I think you’re right that Maisie was younger when this was filmed. She may have been too young looking for the lead or they might have just said since they call her “Wolf Girl” in GOT, let’s really make her a wolf girl in the New Mutants.
      ***
      The other young guy with the hat is the same guy who’s in Stranger Things isn’t he? I guess I could just google it, but he looks pretty familiar.
      ***
      I’m happy for Maisie though. I remember in a random YouTube interview she was wondering what the f’k was going on, since New Mutants was filmed so long ago and it never came out.
      Her role in Spring Awakening in a few years is also a teenager. I wonder if she’ll be able to continue to pull off playing younger teens or whether she’s going to want to be seen as older at some point. You don’t want more people to complain like they did with Gendry’s scene, since they see her as so young when she isn’t. I just re-watched 1-5 on my DVD btw. Sorry Gendry that Arya shot down your proposal…

      • Yeah, you may be right about Anya Taylor-Joy playing the primary character in the movie. That’s what it looks like from the ads and trailers. Even so, if it’s an ensemble-type cast all it takes is a photogenic actress to emerge as the audience favorite. Which is where ASNAWP has a presumptive advantage. 👸🏻
      • Not sure if Maisie was offered the part of Wolfsbane, or whether she accepted it, because of the GoT “Wolf Girl” connection. I would think she’d want to avoid being typecast or pigeon-holed that way, so I’m hoping she took the part because it presented the opportunity to do something new and challenging, and the “wolf” angle was merely coincidental. (Or, if the paycheck was just too rich to turn down… more power to her!)
      • I remember the Maisie Williams interview in which she was wondering “what the f*ck was going on” with New Mutants since it had been filmed so long ago. (I read her comments; I didn’t see it on YouTube.) That interview wasn’t that long ago, and she didn’t seem optimistic that the movie would ever be released, so the recent announcements last month of the new trailer’s imminent release + the April, 2020 date the movie would be in theaters, must have been a pleasant surprise for her.
      • I have not watched “Stranger Things” so I don’t know if the guy with the hat in the trailer was or is in that TV show. However, I thought I read somewhere that “Charlie Heaton” is in New Mutants. He may be the Stranger Things actor. (?)
      • Good question about Maisie’s future roles, i.e., continuing to “pull off playing younger teens” or wanting “to be seen as older at some point.” Lots of twenty-something Hollywood actors get away with playing teenagers. I’m not sure if that’s a “plus” for Maisie Williams going forward. (She’s always looked younger than her age, even when GoT first started. Wasn’t she 12 or 13 when S1 was filmed? She looked like she was 9 or 10 on screen.)
      • I remember some so-called fans complaining about the Arya-Gendry scene in S8e2 “since they [still] see her as so young when she isn’t.” I for one was kind of shocked that the show “went there;” yet, the scene itself was well-done, and showed Arya in control of the situation. For me, it showed that Maisie Williams can do “adult“ scenes and should not be relegated to “teen” roles. (At the same time, her last scene with Sandor demonstrated she can still project child-like innocence.)
      • Misc. thought: During her four-episode guest-starring role on “Dr. Who,” she convincingly portrayed a young girl, and a world-weary adult (and a wizened old woman trapped in a never-aging body, for that matter).

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    23. Clob,

      If “House of the Dragon” takes off…will that mean bye-bye to “The Winds of Winter”?

      After all, George does love his Targ lore…

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    24. It’s possible that I am wrong but my understanding was/is that all the Netflix shows got cancelled as they want to produce content only on Disney+. Now if it’s a film rather than show/series it would be different.

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    25. Jon Snowed,

      I’ve seen Gunpowder and it’s close to his Jon Snow performance (excellent but not different). Kit was also a producer in that one.
      If you want sth different try Testament of Youth. Kit was much younger then but the performance was incredible, even though the part wasn’t lengthy; the movie is about a young woman who loses all her “men”, brother, fiancee, friends in WWI and it’s a real story put to screen. It’s heartbreaking, but essentially it’s the girl’s story.
      Kit also filmed The life and death of Jason Donovan (I think that was the title but perhaps I’m confusing the name) with Susan Sarandon. Unfortunately I haven’t managed to find it over here, so I haven’t seen it yet, but I haven’t given up trying.

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    26. Efi:
      Jon Snowed,

      I’ve seen Gunpowder and it’s close to his Jon Snow performance (excellent but not different). Kit was also a producer in that one.
      If you want sth different try Testament of Youth. Kit was much younger then but the performance was incredible, even though the part wasn’t lengthy; the movie is about a young woman who loses all her “men”, brother, fiancee, friends in WWI and it’s a real story put to screen. It’s heartbreaking, but essentially it’s the girl’s story.
      Kit also filmed The life and death of Jason Donovan (I think that was the title but perhaps I’m confusing the name) with Susan Sarandon. Unfortunately I haven’t managed to find it over here, so I haven’t seen it yet, but I haven’t given up trying.

      I really loved Kit in Testament of Youth. I don’t think he was younger. He just didn’t have the beard and it makes him look really really young! He was in his third year of GOT when that movie came out. That is what I would call a “real” role for him. He had some other doozies that I wouldn’t call A list movie roles, such as Pompeii and Seventh Son. I often look for movies and tv shows that cast GOT actors, and I was surprised by Lena Headey that she didn’t have any great A List movie roles because she’s so frickn talented as an actor. I watched her in her latest “Fighting with my Family” where she plays the mom of a wrestling family!! She was still really awesome and the movie was much better than I expected. But she shows up in movies like Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. I looked first and I saw “Pride and Prejudice”, and then I noticed it was Zombies!
      I hope she gets a better part to dig in to one day. I hope Kit gets more roles like Testament of Youth. I had trouble getting into his other movie/TV roles though (Gunpowder was one I just couldn’t make it past an episode or 2)

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    27. mau:
      Ten Bears,

      The only Winds of Winter that we will ever get is an episode written by Mr Benioff and Mr Weiss from 2016.

      With no slight against George intended, I‘ll bet you’re right. I felt that the already-dwindling odds that he’d finish TWOW plummeted to close to 0% once the Targ-based prequel got the green light. I am NOT being judgmental. It’s just that his recent history, e.g. publication of the “Fire and Blood”(?) volumes, suggest that his heart and his head are back in Old Valyria.

      In past discussions about the reasons for G’s apparent inability to finish ASOIAF, I’ve quoted or linked to B.B. King’s “The Thrill is Gone.” I was going to add Gordon Lightfoot’s “If You Could Read My Mind,” specifically, the lyrics: “I don’t know where we went wrong, but the feeling’s gone, and I just can’t get it back.”

      Maybe those aren’t germane anymore. GRRM’s still got his mojo – just not for the now-stagnant saga he started over a quarter century ago.

      And with that, I’ve decided not to read the five already-published books, though I may read what I call the “Boiled ASNAWP” version: Only Arya chapters. I have read a handful of book excerpts online. I liked the TWOW “Mercy” sample chapter*; the “Needle Was Jon Snow’s Smile” internal monologue**; and the “Harwin, you have to know me!” scene.

      * Partially adapted and divided into the S4e1 Polliver + S5e10 Meryn F*cking Trant scenes?
      ** Beautifully and wordlessly portrayed by Maisie Williams in her S5 Braavos dock scene.

      If the “Mercy” chapter is GRRM’s final word on Arya Stark, I could be okay with that.

      It kind of left off with Mercy’s/Arya’s resignation that she’d have to leave Braavos and the theatre troupe: implicitly and loosely interpreted in the show’s ”A girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell and I’m going home” walk-out moment, but without the Waif-as-antagonist build-up and fight scenes leading up to it.

      I assume Arya’s post-Braavos storylines in the show, from her visit to Walder Frey in S6e10 (borrowing book! Lord Manderly’s in-progress, hinted-at “Frey Pies” story), through her wonky S7 LF-Sansa WF nonsense, to her big surprise vs. NK moment in S8e3 and final destination at the end of S8e6, were all show-only creations by the showrunners. I firmly believe GRRM had other things in mind for Arya, though his general ideas never coalesced.

      Therefore, it’s unlikely we’ll ever know how Arya’s story would have concluded in the books. Yet, for all the grumblings about truncated or “missing” scenes in S7 and S8, I’m content with the show’s finish to Arya’s story. I figure I can read her books! story, and then append the show’s conclusion to it.

      (I mean, she was always going to be a survivor in the books, right? I heard that GRRM’s wife insisted on it – and he would be pilloried by the fandom if he killed off Arya.)

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    28. Ten Bears: Therefore, it’s unlikely we’ll ever know how Arya’s story would have concluded in the books. Yet, for all the grumblings about truncated or “missing” scenes in S7 and S8, I’m content with the show’s finish to Arya’s story. I figure I can read her books! story, and then append the show’s conclusion to it.

      Spoiler. In the books Arya asked Bran what’s West of Westeros and saved herself the trouble.

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    29. Ten Bears: With no slight against George intended, I‘ll bet you’re right. I felt that the already-dwindling odds that he’d finish TWOW plummeted to close to 0% once the Targ-based prequel got the green light. I am NOT being judgmental. It’s just that his recent history, e.g. publication of the “Fire and Blood”(?) volumes, suggest that his heart and his head are back in Old Valyria.

      In past discussions about the reasons for G’s apparent inability to finish ASOIAF, I’ve quoted or linked to B.B. King’s “The Thrill is Gone.” I was going to add Gordon Lightfoot’s “If You Could Read My Mind,” specifically, the lyrics: “I don’t know where we went wrong, but the feeling’s gone, and I just can’t get it back.”

      Maybe those aren’t germane anymore. GRRM’s still got his mojo – just not for the now-stagnant saga he started over a quarter century ago.

      And with that, I’ve decided not to read the five already-published books, though I may read what I call the “Boiled ASNAWP” version: Only Arya chapters. I have read a handful of book excerpts online. I liked the TWOW “Mercy” sample chapter*; the “Needle Was Jon Snow’s Smile” internal monologue**; and the “Harwin, you have to know me!” scene.

      * Partially adapted and divided into the S4e1 Polliver + S5e10 Meryn F*cking Trant scenes?** Beautifully and wordlessly portrayed by Maisie Williams in her S5 Braavos dock scene.

      If the “Mercy” chapter is GRRM’s final word on Arya Stark, I could be okay with that.

      I assume Arya’s post-Braavos storylines in the show, from her visit to Walder Frey in S6e10 (borrowing book! Lord Manderly’s in-progress, hinted-at “Frey Pies” story), through her wonky S7 LF-Sansa WF nonsense, to her big surprise vs. NK moment in S8e3 and final destination at the end of S8e6, were all show-only creations by the showrunners. I firmly believe GRRM had other things in mind for Arya, though his general ideas never coalesced.

      Therefore, it’s unlikely we’ll ever know how Arya’s story would have concluded in the books. Yet, for all the grumblings about truncated or “missing” scenes in S7 and S8, I’m content with the show’s finish to Arya’s story. I figure I can read her books! story, and then append the show’s conclusion to it.

      (I mean, she was always going to be a survivor in the books, right? I heard that GRRM’s wife insisted on it – and he would be pilloried by the fandom if he killed off Arya.)

      It’s really hard for me to guess what GRRM has planned for Arya after reading the books. I think it’s going to be very different than the show though. Her voyage definitely seems to be similar to Alice in Wonderland’s (which I’ve mentioned before) There is a very strong parallel where both characters have a major identity crisis. They are both rejecting what is expected of a girl in society and charting their own path with both going on sea voyages at the end. Alice goes East of Easteros… She sails East to open new trade routes. In the books, Arya tries to be anyone but who she is for a long time. It’s not exactly that way in the show. Arya has many more names for herself in the books. I may write about this more, but I have a hard time guessing what’s next for Arya in the books.

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    30. Tron79,

      ”… I was surprised by Lena Headey that she didn’t have any great A List movie roles because she’s so frickn talented as an actor. I watched her in her latest “Fighting with my Family” where she plays the mom of a wrestling family!! She was still really awesome and the movie was much better than I expected. But she shows up in movies like Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. I looked first and I saw “Pride and Prejudice”, and then I noticed it was Zombies!”

      Ugh. “Pride and Prejudice and Zombies” was f*cking awful! Somebody must have slapped together an impressive cast, and jumped on the zombie movie bandwagon to convince a studio to greenlight that dreck.

      Lena Headey has been in some better movies though – despite obstacles to career advancement after evading [the Pig’s] assault.

      • I thought she was excellent in “Imagine Me and You” with Piper Perabo.
      • Though not the main character, I liked her as the good Queen Gorgo in “300” and its sequel.
      • She was really good as the villainess in the underrated “Dredd.”
      • She had a decent supporting role in the otherwise underwhelming “The Mortal Instruments: City of Bones.”
      • I think she was the lead actress in “The Brothers Grimm;” I liked her performance, though I zoned out after ten or fifteen minutes when she wasn’t on screen and never finished watching the movie.

      I’m sure there were more. Those are all that come to mind. If she didn’t have more “A-List movie roles” despite her considerable talent, I’ll attribute that to The Pig. In addition to his horrific serial assaults and public sliming of accusers, there are scores of extraordinarily talented actresses whose careers were cut short or destroyed by him in retaliation for turning down his repulsive advances.

      Sorry. I had intended to extol Lena Headey. I didn’t mean to go off on a rant against the porcine producer. It’s just that there have been so many times over the past couple of decades when I wondered why I hadn’t seen more of certain talented film actresses after watching them give amazing performances. It was as if they’d completely disappeared, or only showed up infrequently in indie films or on TV shows. Some acquired reputations as “difficult to work with” despite being uniformly praised by their co-stars and directors.

      I couldn’t understand it. It was only recently that the real reason emerged.

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    31. Tron79,

      “Gunpowder was one I just couldn’t make it past an episode or 2”

      You should see it all (it’s only 3 eps, lol; why did you quit?)

      Lena: see the 300 and it’s sequel (although there I think it’s not much of a role, the first one is longer and better).

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    32. Mr Derp: Spoiler.In the books Arya asked Bran what’s West of Westeros and saved herself the trouble.

      Seriously? Or are you just highlighting the strained logic of the show’s canon (e.g., Arya to Lady Crane in S6, and again to Jon and Sansa in S8e6) that “nobody knows what’s West of Westeros” because “that’s where all the maps stop.”

      Because – as you (facetiously?) observe – BirdBrain Bran, who can “see” what’s happening all over the world, could easily fill in the maps or simply tell Arya what’s out there in the uncharted frontier.

      The last we saw of King Bran, he said he was going to put on his weirwood goggles and look for Drogon. Why not survey the western frontier for his sister? At least then she could plot a course for foreign lands worth exploring – or at least destinations where she could discover chocolate.

        Quote  Reply

    33. Ten Bears,

      I beg to differ.
      If GRRM has any decency left in him (even though I have very little faith in people loaded with money, I believe he has because he’s a creator) he will want the last impression of GoT to not be the last impression of ASoIaF too.
      I’m re-reading the books and I’ve picked up some things (mostly foreshadow) that lead to a very different ending. If I’m right it means that GoT’s ending had very little to do with the book’s ending. They kept the destruction of KL, Dany dead by Jon’s hand, Bran king. All the rest is crap.

        Quote  Reply

    34. Efi:
      Tron79,

      “Gunpowder was one I just couldn’t make it past an episode or 2”

      You should see it all (it’s only 3 eps, lol; why did you quit?)

      Lena: see the 300 and it’s sequel (although there I think it’s not much of a role, the first one is longer and better).

      funny about it only being 3 episodes…I may not have made it to episode 2… I was having trouble with Kit as a cowboy right from the beginning. I honestly don’t remember much of it at all now. I may go back and watch again. If it’s only 3 episodes, I should be able to make it through! 🙂

      I’ll search for 300. Thanks..

        Quote  Reply

    35. Ten Bears,

      I will search for the movies you mentioned. I haven’t followed Lena’s life outside of GOT enough to know that she was caught up with “The Pig”. That would explain some things. I hope now she can get better roles. She very well may have wanted the part as the quirky mom wrestler in “Fighting with my family”. I”m hoping that was her choice, since she did seem to have lots of fun with it. My guess is not many saw that movie. She really needs a major role. I have some watching to do with your recommendations and Efi’s… Thanks. I was searching and just kept coming up with things like the Zombie movie.

        Quote  Reply

    36. Tron79,

      I just tried to post a long reply w/ questions encouraging you to “write more” about Arya’s story line in the books. My reply vanished into “That Page Not Found” oblivion. Probably all for the best. It was rambling and too long. The Lord of Light must have been displeased.

      I may try to condense it and try again some other time.

        Quote  Reply

    37. Ten Bears:
      Tron79,

      I just tried to post a long reply w/ questions encouraging you to “write more” about Arya’s story line in the books. My reply vanished into “That Page Not Found” oblivion. Probably all for the best. It was rambling and too long. The Lord of Light must have been displeased.

      I may try to condense it and try again some other time.

      OK. I may have to do your Arya “Leather” re-read of just her chapters soon.
      It might give me some better insights on what might come next for her.
      I’m not sure if GRRM is a fan of Alice in Wonderland, but there are many similarities, so if GRRM is following Alice’s path, then Arya would end up on a ship on her way to new adventures just like the show (since that’s what Alice did too). But I really wonder what GRRM has in mind for her FM skills in the books. It’s gotta be something big, and I don’t think it’s going to be killing the NK, since there isn’t a NK in the books…

        Quote  Reply

    38. Efi:
      Ten Bears,

      I beg to differ.
      If GRRM has any decency left in him (even though I have very little faith in people loaded with money, I believe he has because he’s a creator) he will want the last impression of GoT to not be the last impression of ASoIaF too.
      I’m re-reading the books and I’ve picked up some things (mostly foreshadow) that lead to a very different ending. If I’m right it means that GoT’s ending had very little to do with the book’s ending. They kept the destruction of KL, Dany dead by Jon’s hand, Bran king. All the rest is crap.

      I don’t think we differ much, if at all. I apologize that I wasn’t clear (or concise).

      Except for the fact that Arya will be alive at the end, I was trying to convey that her post-Braavos books! story lines won’t resemble what we saw on the show. I tried to rationalize being content with the show’s version because odds are we’ll never learn what if anything GRRM had in mind.

      As for “decency,” my feeling is that GRRM ought to at least provide a short synopsis of the intended conclusion to ASOIAF in the likely event he’s never able to finish writing the books.

      That assumes he’s even given thought to the general outline of how he’ll reach the endgame. It’s entirely possible his “garden” has been untended for so long that it’s overgrown with weeds, and he’s got no idea how the narratives will proceed from where he left off in the last book he released.

      I got the sense that he did not or could not provide any direction to the showrunners. That could be one of the reasons why, as you predict, ”GoT’s ending had very little to do with the book’s ending.”

      We’re on the same page. 🙁

        Quote  Reply

    39. Difference between show ending and book ending is that the show ends when Jon kills Daenerys and the books end when Varys kills Kevan.

      Next book will happen when Season 9 happens.

        Quote  Reply

    40. Ten Bears: It’s entirely possible his “garden” has been untended for so long that it’s overgrown with weeds, and he’s got no idea how the narratives will proceed from where he left off in the last book he released.

      I think, in general, you’re right. GRRM keeps expanding, expanding, and expanding his world and the amount of POVs he includes as books go on. I think his “garden” has been overgrown and overrun with weeds, weeds that he must deal with and tie up in order to get to that ending. It’s always been my feeling that GRRM is now kind of stuck.

      I think GRRM may have a general idea of where he wants to go and according to interviews with GRRM and D&D both, GRRM did tell them his plans for future books. However, I don’t think we’ll ever learn what was shared. The only confirmed detail about GRRM’s endgame is that Bran becomes the final king.

      They had that meeting at the end of season 3 in which GRRM shared his plans with them. From Vanity Fair (March 2014):

      In the April issue of Vanity Fair, on stands March 13, show co-creator David Benioff tells Windolf, “Last year we went out to Santa Fe for a week to sit down with him [Martin] and just talk through where things are going, because we don’t know if we are going to catch up and where exactly that would be. If you know the ending, then you can lay the groundwork for it. And so we want to know how everything ends. We want to be able to set things up. So we just sat down with him and literally went through every character.” Martin tells Windolf, “I can give them the broad strokes of what I intend to write, but the details aren’t there yet. I’m hopeful that I can not let them catch up with me.”

      From GRRM’s interview with 60 Minutes:

      Anderson Cooper: When it clear they were catching up, you told them over– a kind of an overarching future of where you saw the– the last two books going in terms of plot?

      George R.R. Martin: Yes. And, you know, the major beats. I mean, obviously, we’re talking here about a– several days of story conferences taking place in my home in Santa Fe, New Mexico. But there’s no way to get in all the detail, all the minor characters, all the secondary characters.

      But ultimately, I think you’re right. I have low hopes that these books will ever see the light of day, I think GRRM is stuck. I think he’s good at setting up a world and its characters but perhaps not at bringing the story home to its conclusion. I think we’ll be speculating forever as to what his ending will look like.

      As for D&D, I think back to Alt Shift X’s comment that they signed up to adapt books, not write the end to Game of Thrones. But I mean, there’s also that they knew these books were unfinished when they approached him in 2007 and that definitely comes with a certain amount of risk.

        Quote  Reply

    41. Tron79,

      When I was in art school making foam characters to animate, I used to leave out eyebrows because I thought they were super lame and unnecessary (and I resented the cost of getting mine shaped even in the pro-natural brow beauty trend).

      But when I finally added eyebrows to them, woah, what a difference! Like on that Arya POP figure! Maisie is smart for wanting eyebrows 😉

        Quote  Reply

    42. Adrianacandle,

      Yes definitely. Ten Bears posted a Maisie interview either in this thread or the previous article where she draws them in!
      Maisie’s signature are those eyebrows so nice to see them this time. The only thing is this Arya figure’s head is bigger and feet are smaller so it’s more difficult to get her to stand than the old Arya figure but i got finally got her to stand. She’s standing on top of icy Viserion behind the night king at the moment.

        Quote  Reply

    43. Tron79,

      That’s a nice set-up!! XD And POP figures just don’t want to stay upright! I have a Buffy POP figure and even with a relatively wide base (for POP figures), since Buffy has her ‘Prophecy Girl’ Jr. prom dress for balance, she still has trouble staying upright so I must use some double-sided tape for support 🙁

      There’s little and less hope of my Jon Snow POP keychain staying upright but that’s okay! He’s constantly fighting the war against getting battered by my keys and other metal keychains ;0; (more keychains on my keyring than keys… My poor Tile too…)

        Quote  Reply

    44. Tron79: 🙂 I can see Jon swinging Longclaw to keep your keys from hitting him.

      LOL! And his POP keychain counterpart does have a Longclaw too! XD

      Alliser Throne: “But you, Lord Snow… you’ll be fighting their battles forever.”

      I have this pretty hefty multi-part metal keychain from the Efteling and it keeps ramming Jon in all sides of his sad-faced vinyl head 🙁 Maybe I should get him some help…

      Good excuse to get an Arya POP keychain!!

        Quote  Reply

    45. mau:
      …Varys kills Kevan.

      Lol. (Pycelle’s corpse feels ignored)

      “And in their hands, the daggers.”
      Such a riveting ending to the 5th tome. Varys paving the way…Unfortunately, my sweaty, anticipating palms remain unrequited for almost a decade, and still dither in the angst of possible canon that is not force fed visually and hastily to jaded eyes.

      I have become so annoyed with this situation, I reread The Wheel of Time series and am ready to embrace more tomfoolery as the fandom prepares to virtually arm wrestle another adaptation…which, thankfully, is based on a completed idea. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    46. Tron79:
      Adrianacandle,

      Yes definitely.Ten Bears posted a Maisie interview either in this thread or the previous article where she draws them in!
      Maisie’s signature are those eyebrows so nice to see them this time.The only thing is this Arya figure’s head is bigger and feet are smaller so it’s more difficult to get her to stand than the old Arya figure but i got finally got her to stand. She’s standing on top of icy Viserion behind the night king at the moment.

      Here’s the Maisie Williams Thronecast interview from 2013

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AASqKKgSndo

      at around 5:00 – 7:00: Maisie Williams with the Arya Funko Pop; she draws eyebrows on it.

      (I may re-post my prior comment that quoted Maisie Williams from the interview + a S6 Lady Crane clip complimenting Mercy’s “wonderful eyebrows.”)

        Quote  Reply

    47. Tron79,

      Here’s my comment (reply to you) on January 5th in the Comments Section under a prior post. I had to replace the short snippet of Lady Crane I’d previously included (I couldn’t find the link) with a link to a longer compilation. I did include the time codes if you want to jump ahead…
      ————

      … and at around 5:00 – 6:20 of that Thronecast interview (that preceded S3 I think), Maisie protests: “I’ve got some pretty nice eyebrows too.”

      TB: Yes you do, Maisie, yes you do.

      You have very expressive eyes, Mercy. Wonderful eyebrows.” – Lady Crane,

      at 5:29 – 5:40 of compilation clip of Lady Crane, S6e5 and S6e6

        Quote  Reply

    48. Chilli:
      Adrianacandle,

      Efteling?
      What country are you from? I’m Belgian. The Efteling is very popular here.

      I am in Canada but I’ve visited the Netherlands quite a few times! I’ve only been to The Efteling once though and I loved it, especially the fairy tale garden with all the different fairy tale houses! I totally see why it’s so popular in Belgium! I really, really want to go back and try that big big roller coaster! (The Baron 1898 it’s called? Yes, I very much want to go on that!)

      Ten Bears,

      Thanks for the link!

        Quote  Reply

    49. Tron79,

      Wait… You’ve got your Arya Funko Pop “standing on top of icy Viserion behind the Night King at the moment”?

      I’m very impressed and more than a little jealous.

      On another note… My Helen Sloan photo book arrived from Amazon. I haven’t picked it up from my mail room yet though. I was thinking of leaving it unopened so I can preserve it in pristine condition… Nah. I will put on latex gloves when leafing through it so I don’t leave fingerprints.

        Quote  Reply

    50. Ten Bears:
      Tron79,

      On another note… My Helen Sloan photo book arrived from Amazon. I haven’t picked it up from my mail room yet though. I was thinking ofleaving it unopened so I can preserve it in pristine condition… Nah. I will put on latex gloves when leafing through it so I don’t leave fingerprints.

      JEALOUS. 😳

        Quote  Reply

    51. Adrianacandle,

      In case anyone doesn’t want to skim through the Lady Crane compilation, I found the link to the snippet…

      S6e6 Lady Crane: “You have very expressive eyes, Mercy. Wonderful eyebrows.”

        Quote  Reply

    52. Ten Bears: On another note… My Helen Sloan photo book arrived from Amazon. I haven’t picked it up from my mail room yet though. I was thinking of leaving it unopened so I can preserve it in pristine condition… Nah. I will put on latex gloves when leafing through it so I don’t leave fingerprints.

      I’m jealous too! I still must wait to buy this book!!! 😩

      You’ve got far better willpower than me 😉 The Christmas morning upon which I was recently abandoned after all-night gift wrapping (did anyone know you can’t tape printed kraft paper with regular tape? I had to use hot glue and packing tape!), I saw a big book-shaped present from two of my many (three) sisters and I knew it was the costume book. So I ripped open the paper and proceeded to get my hashbrown greased hands all over it… I couldn’t even wait to wash them, the sink was all the way on the other side of the room by the time I got to it… 🙁

      Besides, my aunt wanted to look through it and I knew that meant a 63% chance of a wine-stained page 😉

        Quote  Reply

    53. Ten Bears:
      Adrianacandle,

      In case anyone doesn’t want to skim through the Lady Crane compilation, I found the link to the snippet…

      S6e6 Lady Crane: “You have very expressive eyes, Mercy. Wonderful eyebrows.”

      Maisie Williams’ point of wanting her POP figure to have eyebrows is now even more salient 😉

        Quote  Reply

    54. Pigeon,

      I HAD to order the Helen Sloan photo book. Amazon’s price ($41, I think) was cheaper than anywhere else, and it qualified for free shipping. It was too easy to click “Place Order.”

      Waiting for the price to drop didn’t make much sense. Other sellers were already asking more for used copies.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Adrianacandle: Maisie Williams’ point of wanting her POP figure to have eyebrows is now even more salient 😉

      It was so perfect to watch pre-S3 Maisie in 2013 comment that the Cersei Funko Pop had eyebrows but the Arya Funko Pop didn’t, then
      pull back her hair from her face to show that: “I’ve got some pretty nice eyebrows too.”

      … followed by the S6 scene of Lady Crane telling Arya she has “wonderful eyebrows.”

      Is that what’s called a “meta” moment?

        Quote  Reply

    56. Tron79:
      Ten Bears,

      This is hilarious based on our previous discussion of Maisie wanting eyebrows on her Funko POP! figure.I just opened the box for my new Arya figure with her spear, and the first thing I noticed was that she has EYEBROWS! Here’s a photo I found online if the Lord of Light lets it through
      https://www.previewsworld.com/SiteImage/CatalogImage/STL128368?type=1

      I just saw your comment and clicked on the image. Hah! Arya’s got her double-edged custom-designed weapon, a “don’t f*ck with me” glare, and yes, wonderful eyebrows!

      If I weren’t philosophically opposed to Funko Pop dolls I’d buy that one.

        Quote  Reply

    57. Ten Bears: Is that what’s called a “meta” moment?

      I think it might be!

      Ten Bears: Why must you “still wait to buy this book!!! 😩“?

      Mine’s unopened. I can send it to you.

      That is the sweetest thing!! But you must keep that wonderful book for you so you can pore over the pages! Like I will be doing! (Probably with greasy hands again…) Your book deserves a life of gentle, latex-covered hands — not my frantic OMG!!111 [rips open box to terrified book] hands! 😉

      Before I buy the book, and I will buy that book (I swear it!), I plan on buying some acrylic sheeting to cut in the laser machine in order to experiment with my next project! But, as with all materials, acrylic sheeting doesn’t come cheap. And then, by all that is good and holy, I’m getting that book…! The costume book is a bit lonely, needs a fellow GoT book to talk to 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    58. The LightKing:
      Ten Bears,

      I hope you rip out the photos from seasons 5 – 8 from the book, after these seasons are so shitty and bad!

      Aww, it’s so sad that you feel that way! Personally, I think there was SO much that was great about those seasons (and I know Ten Bears does too) – amazing cast, fantastic crew, the pasty lady, some beautiful cinematography….guys like Bryan Cogman who truly loved those characters…and the costumes! So, so much. Such a shame you didn’t find it brilliant – I know I’ll ALWAYS be grateful.

        Quote  Reply

    59. Pigeon,

      Oh gosh, and I can’t leave out the music! Mr. Djawadi is just brilliant, truly. And the story Mr. Martin created in the first place – chilling to think how none of this would have been possible without him. D&D must be so grateful too, and they did a pretty decent job of it on the whole, really.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Adrianacandle,

      Interesting admission by GRRM in that March, 2014 Vanity Fair interview you quoted:

      … Martin tells Windolf, “I can give them the broad strokes of what I intend to write, but the details aren’t there yet. I’m hopeful that I can not let them catch up with me.”

      They DID catch up to him. And obviously the details of what he intended to write “weren’t there yet“ when it came time for the showrunners to write scripts.

      I still can’t shake the feeling that there were so many clues and significant details included in the show’s earlier seasons (“hung guns” some might call them) that were meant to set up twists and resolutions by the end, but they amounted to nothing because George never got around to connecting the dots and answering his own riddles. I believe that’s why, for example, all of the prophecies fizzled out; the White Walkers got reduced to cliched sci fi aliens defeated by the “taking out the leader deactivates all the drones” device; and Bran and his superpowers ultimately turned out to be worthless. *

      * By the way, during the Battle of WF when he told Theon “I’m going to go now” and rolled his eyes back into his head… where the f*ck did he go? Warging into birdies?

        Quote  Reply

    61. Ten Bears,

      Right, I don’t think GRRM has figured out how he’s going to connect all the dots he’s set up. I think he knows where he wants to go, I think he shared the broad strokes, I think D&D tried to align with that as well as they could within the confines of adaptation, but I don’t think GRRM has really figured out his roadmap of how to connect those dots (or “broad strokes”), and I don’t think he really knows how he’s going to reach the end — so D&D had to make those connections (as they did catch up) and it resulted in some of those “hung guns” from earlier seasons.

      But it’s my fear (and resignation by now) that we’ll never really know how GRRM wanted to end his own story. You’re right, D&D did catch up to GRRM and even now, in 2020, nearly nine years after ADWD was released (and almost entirely within that time span, its television adaptation Game of Thrones has started and ended), we don’t have any confirmed word or publication date on the next book. I think GRRM is really good at world-building and… I think he sort of world-built himself into a corner with everything he keeps introducing.

      the White Walkers got reduced to cliched sci fi aliens defeated by the “taking out the leader deactivates all the drones” device; and Bran and his superpowers ultimately turned out to be worthless.

      When I first saw that, I was immediately reminded of both True Blood and The Vampire Diaries in which you kill a vampire and all his/her descendants are also killed. So it’s like The Night King is the head vampire 😉

        Quote  Reply

    62. This “hung gun” mention made me think of the poster that always talked about hung guns.

      We did not agree all the time as I thought Daenerys Targ would come to no good – and even I was taken aback by the “fireparty” she threw after winning KL. I am pretty sure the poster was fond of her and saw her as a future savior of Westeros. (Am I slandering the poster??? Quite possibly! It has been some time)

      Anyway, so much for keen attention to hung guns.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Mango,

      Alas, poor Wimsey…I can only imagine him jumping ship in abandon with multiple hung guns and Chekov’s….something. Razor? Oscam’s razor? Yes.

        Quote  Reply

    64. Mango: Anyway, so much for keen attention to hung guns.

      And I think that’s one of the tricky areas — when trying to predict future plot points, people can interpret the same detail/passage very differently and take it to mean different things for the future story, thus the incredible amount of theories that have sprung out of the same detail/book passage. I think it’s sort of like Schrodinger’s Cat — we don’t know the answer for certain until it’s been published/viewed.

        Quote  Reply

    65. Pigeon: Aww, it’s so sad that you feel that way! Personally, I think there was SO much that was great about those seasons (and I know Ten Bears does too) – amazing cast, fantastic crew, the pasty lady, some beautiful cinematography….guys like Bryan Cogman who truly loved those characters…and the costumes! So, so much. Such a shame you didn’t find it brilliant – I know I’ll ALWAYS be grateful.

      Without getting into the “rushed vs fast-paced” debate or the whinging about the diminished characters and so-called “lazy writing,” can anyone really argue that the special effects, practical effects, and cinematography weren’t breathtaking? Likewise, the images captured by Helen Sloan are sheer artistry. (I’d use the “b” word but it’s after New Year’s.)

      For instance (and I thank Tron for pointing this out), at the end of Arya’s run through the gauntlet of Dany’s Inferno in “The Bells,” there’s a long stretch with no dialogue as Arya emerges from the ash and rubble, followed by the (unexplained) appearance of the white horse. People can bitch about “plot armor” and the fortuitous materializing of a ride out of Dodge, yet the images on screen were a visual treat. The music was wonderful too.

      Helen Sloan’s photographs of this scene, and on-set throughout the show, were phenomenal.* (If I had any fashion sense I could better appreciate the costumes and the hairstyling. If I had any musical aptitude and keener hearing I’d surely go to one of Ramin Djwadi’s concerts.)

      * I’m pretty sure many of the photographs at the top of wotw articles are Helen Sloan’s.

      Game of Thrones – especially the latter seasons – was a veritable feast for the eyes, even when the plot was confounding. (While I was not at all thrilled with the silly wight hunt plan in “Beyond the Wall,” Dany swooping in with blazes of dragonfire was a joy to watch.)

      I can’t say enough about the imagery. That’s why got the Helen Sloan book.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Ten Bears,

      The image of the dragons above the clouds in the moonlight, and Drogon flying overhead as Sandor looks up the stairs at the Red Keep, are permanently etched in the memory as incredibly beautiful! So many moments, SO much work to make it look effortless.

      Adrianacandle,

      I can definitely imagine, and I know you have a keen eye for costuming! 😊 I definitely need to find space in my budget for these books….

        Quote  Reply

    67. It’s worth noting that D&D had access to the sample chapters that GRRM released prior to S5/S6, you can see this where by the mercy chapters in S6 were written before the sample chapter was released (likely GRRM did this as he knew the show would do it). My point being is they know where her story is heading from GRRM so I think we can take the show as an outline at least although I do feel several elements were changed (the Frey massacre I feel will be part of Lady Stoneheart’s arc), I do think Arya will return to Winterfell and fight against the White Walkers, likely she is in Kings Landing when Dany goes full Mad Queen and likely she leaves Westeros at the end. I’m not entirely convinced about the Gendry love story though.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Pigeon: The image of the dragons above the clouds in the moonlight, and Drogon flying overhead as Sandor looks up the stairs at the Red Keep, are permanently etched in the memory as incredibly beautiful! So many moments, SO much work to make it look effortless.

      I think so too! And I love those moments!

      Agreed with you and Ten Bears about the visuals, they are absolutely stunning — I felt they were like illustrations come to life <3

      I can definitely imagine, and I know you have a keen eye for costuming! 😊 I definitely need to find space in my budget for these books….

      They’re gorgeous! I wish we lived closer on our vast prairies, I’d lend you mine ;;

        Quote  Reply

    69. Adrianacandle,

      “But it’s my fear (and resignation by now) that we’ll never really know how GRRM wanted to end his own story.”

      Like just about every devoted fan of the show, I came up with tinfoil theories based on all of (what I thought were) deliberate clues sprinkled in throughout the first six seasons. My theories amounted to squat. The “hung guns” were never fired. Most of the seemingly significant details from the early seasons (before the show passed the books) were ultimately glossed over or ignored.

      I still think they were planted there because George was setting up something(s) for the end, with certain characters’ intelligence the keys to unlocking mysteries. Relying on GRRM to tie them all up by the end, the showrunners embedded those threads of information in the dialogue and sets in the early seasons.

      However, without being able to connect Grorge’s dots, the showrunners came up with simplistic solutions. Without intricate puzzles and characters imbued with the brainpower to solve them, the show had introduced physically challenged but intellectually gifted “heroes” like Sam, Tyrion and Bran, who wound up coming off as dumbed down or useless.

      I refuse to believe GRRM intended for Bran’s companions to sacrifice themselves to save him just so he could sit around and parrot other characters catch-phrases, and then serve as “bait” because… memories or something.
      I cannot fathom that GRRM’s counterpart, Samwell Tarly, pored through all those books and amassed all that knowledge at CB and the Citadel to… do what exactly to help defeat the WWs?
      Stannis had urged him “Keep reading, Samwell Tarly.” Sam convinced Jon to send him to the Citadel to try to find out how to defeat the Army of the Dead; Sam dropped out of school and headed north to “help” Jon… how?
      While I understand that smart people aren’t infallible, there’s no way GRRM planned to turn the witty, scholarly Tyrion into a consistently outsmarted, outmaneuvered Orson Lannister clone. (I’d bet the farm there is no way in hell that GRRM would come up with the wight hunt plan, let alone designate Tyrion as its architect.)

      To me, these characters were the primary casualties of GRRM’s neglect. Writing smart wordplay and clever quips has to be challenging and time-consuming.

      Jon Snow’s hard-earned intellectual growth and progressive thinking pretty much evaporated starting in mid-S6. His unnecessary knee-bending and corny dialogue at the end of S7 made me cringe. By S8 he was arguably mentally neutered This once-great conciliator and near-legendary fighter was reduced to ducking out from behind a rock, yelling at an undead dragon, and ducking behind the rock again. (He still had the brooding face down cold.) I can’t accept that GRRM envisioned his main hero regressing like this at the end.

      Did George have better ideas for these characters and the conclusions of his storylines? As you fear, I suspect we’ll never know. 🤢

        Quote  Reply

    70. No disrespect intended but I find it almost crazy that there are people out there who still refuse to accept the ending which the show gave us is what is coming coming in the books. Don’t get me wrong some of the details will differ but broad strokes that is the ending, Dany goes mad queen and is killed by Jon, Bran becomes King, Sansa is Queen in the North, Cersei/Jamie both die, Arya leaves for good. D&D have stated numerous times they know the ending and were sticking with it, GRRM confirmed it’s the same ending in his not a blog although hinted some details will differ. We will never get the final book so this one will run and run sadly.

        Quote  Reply

    71. Ten Bears,

      Yeah, I did find some of the writing to be sloppy, especially in season 8. I think the majority of main characters suffered in terms of characterization, development, and/or story in the latter seasons. It sort of feels like a Cliff’s Notes version where they were trying to achieve the basic story beats as quickly as possible, perhaps a broad outline of what GRRM told them, to get to the endgame in a limited amount of episodes. GRRM wanted GoT to go on until season 13 or something and I don’t think that would have been realistically feasible for the cast or crew.

      I recently saw a Reddit comment say that it seems like so much was rushed on the show because these were things D&D wanted to implement in the story — because they either knew it was coming from GRRM or they were having to fill in the blanks themselves — but didn’t have sufficient time, knowledge, or resources to fully develop these stories. I wonder if this is one of the reasons why they went with some of those simplistic solutions like you said.

      Which sucks! If GRRM had finished the books by the time D&D got here, I think that would have made a difference. As Alt Shift X said, D&D signed up to adapt books, not write the conclusion. I think they adapted ASOIAF quite well for television, especially considering the complexity of the material, but once they lost that framework, the story started wobbling more and more.

        Quote  Reply

    72. What we really know is the following:
      – D&D and George spent several days going through how the story would pan out after the published books.
      – We know the arcs for all major characters were discussed.
      – We know that some minor characters George had still not planned (D&D confirmed in S6 that the Hound was one such character stating George informed them of his return but not his arc)
      – We know D&D were given access to unpublished materials from Winds as they appeared in Season 5 (burning of Shireen) and Season 6 (Mercy chapters), some of which George released himself shortly afterwards.
      – We know Bran will end as King as it was confirmed by Isaac as coming from George.

      The rest is pretty much speculation but D&D stated repeatedly they were heading to the same ending as George but some of the journey to get there wil diverge as they had to cut some of the ever expanding world.

        Quote  Reply

    73. Jon Snowed,

      Everything important was said in the season 8 Blue Ray special Duty is the Death of Love! Mr. Benioff confirmed that they knew how and when they gone end the story and they knew who would end up as king because GRRM told them.

        Quote  Reply

    74. The LightKing,

      Well, I have my opinion, same as you, and I respect you feel it was well-done and fast-paced 🙂 I don’t really agree with those assessments but this is an area I feel is pretty subjective and I totally respect your view.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Jon Snowed:
      What we really know is the following:
      – D&D and George spent several days going through how the story would pan out after the published books.
      – We know the arcs for all major characters were discussed.
      – We know that some minor characters George had still not planned (D&D confirmed in S6 that the Hound was one such character stating George informed them of his return but not his arc)
      – We know D&D were given access to unpublished materials from Winds as they appeared in Season 5 (burning of Shireen) and Season 6 (Mercy chapters), some of which George released himself shortly afterwards.
      – We know Bran will end as King as it was confirmed by Isaac as coming from George.

      The rest is pretty much speculation but D&D stated repeatedly they were heading to the same ending as George but some of the journey to get there wil diverge as they had to cut some of the ever expanding world.

      Yeah, I think this is a nice summary 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    76. Adrianacandle,

      Acrylic sheeting? I’ve never experimented with it.
      Acrylic floor polish on the other hand…

      • One of the mainstays of my craft and home improvement arsenal is an acrylic floor polish that used to be called “Future Shine” by Johnson. Then its name and label changed to “Pledge Floor Care with Future Shine Tile & Vinyl Floor Finish.” Nowadays I think the name is “Pledge Floor Polish.” (Not sure about that. I still have a stock of the clear plastic bottles with the “Pledge Floor Care with Future Shine” label.)
      Anyway, I don’t (only) use it as floor polish:

      • I wouldn’t bore you (or other readers) with this, except for the fact that this stuff, when sprayed out of an atomizer or pump spray bottle or brushed on with a sponge brush, provides the BEST gloss finish imaginable on any painted or smoothed surface – better than any enamel gloss coat or wax finish. (It can be a little messy; it’s a good idea to let the excess drip onto old newspaper. It self-levels and air bubbles from the pump spraying disappear as it dries.)

      • Also, I’ve found that all stainless steel appliances become discolored and look “stained” with water marks and streaks. Specialized “stainless steel” cleansers don’t work. Home remedies don’t work. Warm water and diluted dish detergent (recommended by the manufacturers) don’t work. All of these supposed stainless steel cleaners just leave more unsightly streaks and dull areas. I tried all of them. They all suck.

      • The ONLY* thing that restores the shiny, like-new stainless steel finish is: Future Shine acrylic floor polish.

      * (Well, mineral oil works too. but who wants a greasy refrigerator? Who wants an oven that sweats oil when you turn it on?)

      – Sorry everyone. Now back to GoT!

        Quote  Reply

    77. Adrianacandle,

      Opinions are subjective and not factual.
      I wonder if you treat other shows like GoT. Mr. Benioff and Mr. Weiss did an excellent job with all seasons and especially with season 8. The later generation will appreciate it more and they can experience it far from any hate.
      Its truly sad that people who didn’t watch the show already have the mindset, that the show is going downhill after season 4.

      You just need to look at all the theories about the show. It just shows how dumb this fandom is.

      😝😁

        Quote  Reply

    78. with all the talk and theories here of what comes next in TWOW, I thought I would look to see if there was any new news…. This could be more “vapor-ware” from GRRM, but now he’s promising it by Worldcon late summer. I hope that means by December 2020! Of course, he did promise ADWD within 1 year which he even wrote in AFOC, so it’s hard to have faith in what he says, but I’m placing my bet in Vegas for December 21, 2020. That’s the official date that Winter comes this year! What a cool promotion it would be to see white doves flying over Northern Ireland somewhere on December 21. (it might be hard to find actual white ravens…)

      GRRM wrote…”I tell you this — if I don’t have THE WINDS OF WINTER in hand when I arrive in New Zealand for Worldcon, you have here my formal written permission to imprison me in a small cabin on White Island, overlooking that lake of sulfuric acid, until I’m done….Just so long as the acrid fumes do not screw up my old DOS word processor, I’ll be fine.”

      ConZealand is July 29 to August 2, and GRRM is Master of Ceremonies…

        Quote  Reply

    79. Ten Bears,

      Thanks for all those tips!!!

      Yes! Some lasers can cut and engrave a variety of materials (steel, brass, wood, leather, acrylic) and I really really want to try acrylic since (especially translucent acrylic) can look like cut glass and it’s so beautiful. This is the stuff I’m looking at ordering at the end of the month to try with a BOSS LS-1630 laser and especially when you start constructing 3-D objects with translucent acrylic, you can get some pretty nice effects that resemble glass and crystal.

      Do you have any experience working with CNC machines? I’m just starting to learn how to use Fusion 360 to work a CNC.

      I’ve been wanting to show you the dice tower I made with the laser but I still need to prepare the photos and will upload to a temporary URL when I’m all done if you’re interested! It’s why I want to flatten that plywood from before!

      I love mineral oil! It makes wood look so good and when you combine it with melted beeswax and let it cool, makes a super nice lip balm!! 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    80. The LightKing:
      Pigeon,

      People who don’t like season 5-8 shouldn’t buy any merchandise from these seasons. That’s my opinion!

      Hey! If you happen to come across a radio-controlled scale model of Arya Stark’s S8e6 direwolf ship would you let me know?
      Or Walder Frey & Littlefinger Pez Dispensers?
      Meryn F*cking Trant pin cushion?
      Ramsay Snow Puppy Chow? Tormund Giantsbane Fortified Vitamin D Milk?

      You don’t have to like all of S5-S8 to want merchandise to remind yourself of what you enjoyed about GoT. That’s my opinion!

        Quote  Reply

    81. The LightKing: Opinions are subjective and not factual.
      I wonder if you treat other shows like GoT. Mr. Benioff and Mr. Weiss did an excellent job with all seasons and especially with season 8. The later generation will appreciate it more and they can experience it far from any hate.
      Its truly sad that people who didn’t watch the show already have the mindset, that the show is going downhill after season 4.

      You just need to look at all the theories about the show. It just shows how dumb this fandom is.

      😝😁

      I totally agree opinions are subjective and not factual.

      I have felt about other shows the way I feel about Game of Thrones season 8. For instance, I think Once Upon a Time started getting shaky around season 3, its writing/plots could be downright sloppy, and now I’m having trouble getting through its final season (season 7). I can’t watch past the third season of Vampire Diaries. I think Anne With an E is a terrible adaptation of its source material. I did not like the seventh season of Buffy whatsoever and a lot of that was due to the writing. I thought the final seasons of True Blood were kind of weird. I think The Office went downhill after Steve Carell left.

      I have lots of examples where I think the writing on other shows started degrading for various reasons. But, as you said, these are just my opinions, not things I’m trying to represent as indisputable facts, which is why I try to preface statements with, “I think/I find/I believe”, etc.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Adrianacandle,

      ”Do you have any experience working with CNC machines? I’m just starting to learn how to use Fusion 360 to work a CNC.”

      I have to confess I’ve never heard of them. “Fusion 360” and “CNC machine”? Whatever they are they sound cool as hell!

      And those pictures of translucent colored acrylic glass are beautiful. That cobalt blue at the top is my “official” color (glassware, china, etc.)

      Now I want to get a laser cutter!

        Quote  Reply

    83. Ten Bears: I have to confess I’ve never heard of them. “Fusion 360” and “CNC machine”? Whatever they are they sound cool as hell!

      And those pictures of translucent colored acrylic glass are beautiful. That cobalt blue at the top is my “official” color (glassware, china, etc.)

      Now I want to get a laser cutter!

      That blue is the one I want to order! And nice official colour, btw!
      Some of the stuff I see from people who use lasers to cut and engrave acrylic are so stunning — especially when they use different colours of translucent acrylic to optically mix colours in 3-D structures (like designing it so a piece of translucent red is positioned in such a way that it’ll overlay translucent blue at some angles to make sections of purple!)

      Lasers are awesome! There’s so much you can do with them! And I like, when you use them with wood, it smells like a campfire 🙂 🙂 🙂 It’s essentially drawing and cutting with fire when you use lasers!

      I think this video nicely shows what CNC machines can do! You know how with 3-D printing, an object is created by adding material layer by layer? With CNC machines, it’s kind of the opposite. You have your stock material but the object is created by routing away stock (like from a block of wood). Fusion 360 is a 3D CAD tool in which you can build 3D objects for things like 3D printing (or testing how objects will fit together before you cut them on the laser) but it’s also a CAM tool — so you can determine how the CNC machine cuts your object by creating a tool path!

      It’s all great and I’m really excited to learn the CNC machine! People at my local makerspace have done such incredible things with it!

        Quote  Reply

    84. Tron79,

      ”This could be more “vapor-ware” from GRRM, but now he’s promising it by Worldcon late summer. I hope that means by December 2020! Of course, he did promise ADWD within 1 year which he even wrote in AFOC, so it’s hard to have faith in what he says, but I’m placing my bet in Vegas for December 21, 2020.
      ***
      GRRM wrote…”I tell you this — if I don’t have THE WINDS OF WINTER in hand when I arrive in New Zealand for Worldcon, you have here my formal written permission to imprison me in a small cabin on White Island, overlooking that lake of sulfuric acid, until I’m done….Just so long as the acrid fumes do not screw up my old DOS word processor, I’ll be fine.”

      ConZealand is July 29 to August 2, and GRRM is Master of Ceremonies…”

      _______

      I think we should have a pool, and whoever comes closest to TWOW’s publication date wins the jackpot.

      You’re placing your bet in Vegas on December 21, 2020?
      As you probably know, some sports books in Vegas and gambling sites in the UK set odds and take bets on just about anything. I wonder if any of them have posted odds on TWOW…

        Quote  Reply

    85. The LightKing:
      Ten Bears,

      That’s not right and makes no sense. If you don’t like something then you dont need a reminder!

      You can like some aspects and dislike other aspects of something. In time, the good memories remain and the bad ones tends to fade.

      Of course, I could be talking about an ex-gf, so don’t listen to me. 🤭

        Quote  Reply

    86. Ten Bears:
      Adrianacandle,

      I’ve got to re-read and study all of this! It sounds and looks so fascinating.

      I think it is too! I’m excited to get started after I’m all healed up! Once you get familiar with what CNCs can do, let me know what you think! I don’t want to overload you with info but there’s this video which shows you how to make a free-standing 3D object with a CNC and how to use Fusion 360 to do it!

        Quote  Reply

    87. I am missing Game of Thrones so much. I think I will never feel the same for a TV show, I loved it from start to end. The story, acting, costumes, set design, music, everything was great. Some seasons were better than others but even my least favorite seasons 2, 5 and 7 were still great TV and better than most other stuff I watched. I loved the ending and I also did not have any problems with the pacing of season 8.

      I am still looking for a TV show which I will love as much as Game of Thrones. The only TV show which is at least catching me as much as GoT is The Expanse. It’s great and I will also now start to read the books. Also in season 4 Burn Gorman (Karl Tanner) is one of the main actors.

      Some other TV shows I watched this year with Game of Thrones-Actors:
      The Crown, season 3. I loved Tobias Menzies portrayal of Prince Philip but overall this season was not great. It started to feel more like a royal soap opera and it is now only loosely based on history. Besides Tobias Menzies also a lot of others Game of Thrones-actors are in it e.g. Charles Dance as Lord Mountbatten.
      Chernobyl, it was great but only 5 episodes. To be honest I expected a little bit more after I heard so much positive critics about it. Some Game of Thrones actors have minor roles in it.
      Rome, as a lot of people praised it as one of the best shows. I liked it especially the costumes, the acting and the set design but it has also some flaws e.g. I did not like the replacement of the Octavian actor at all. Ciaran Hinds as Julius Caesar is great. Tobias Menzies played Brutus. And Indira Virma is also one of the main actresses in season one.
      Also watched some comedies and other stuff but nothing really exciting.

      At the moment I watch the last season of the Man in the High Castle and I am really struggling with the story, does not catch me at all.

      I have also started The Witcher but stopped watching it. I do not like it at all.

        Quote  Reply

    88. I feel you raise some really good points about the prophecy and hung guns from earlier seasons. It felt to me that after S6 so much of that just dropped off. What we then got was inconsistency in seasons 7 and 8 like Azor Ahai inparticular when they teased it could be Dany then it just disappeared. Most likely in the books it’s Jon and he has to stab Dany to save the world in a similar way that happened in the history of Westeros only in the show it was never made clear. Likewise I feel Sam will discover the origins of the White Walkers rather than Bran, he may even figure out Jon’s heritage but more likely that’s Bran. It’s like the showrunners knew the points they needed to hit but not how this would interwine with the journey.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Thanks I have the S8 Blu-Ray and will do a full re-watch of the entire show in the coming weeks so look forward to seeing this special feature.

        Quote  Reply

    90. Jon Snowed,

      The show never mentioned Azor Ahai. Just the Prince that was Promised and we dont know if these two are the same person. In addition it’s just a prophecy and to be honest, I’m glad that they left this out. A Hero who saves the world from the big evil is so cliche and every story has this boring shit.

      Benioff said that they wanted to achieve that the final season should feel like everything is coming together or falling apart.

        Quote  Reply

    91. The LightKing: A Hero who saves the world from the big evil is so cliche and every story has this boring shit.

      The show did have it, they just didn’t mention the name.

      Jon (the hero) was resurrected (reborn) and killed Dany (the big evil) by thrusting his sword into her heart, thus saving the world.

      It’s the Azor Ahai prophecy, just not by name.

        Quote  Reply

    92. Mr Derp,

      But it was controversial, bitter sweet and not cliche. It was something what the audience didn’t want. That’s the difference.

      PS. Dany isn’t evil.

        Quote  Reply

    93. Mr Derp: Try telling that to the thousands of innocent people she slaughtered in King’s Landing.

      Right. If you’re going to go on a murderous rampage like that, and don’t express contrition afterwards, that’s a good sign you’re evil.

      Here, in contrast to Dany, Sir Lancelot at least sought to apologize after he got carried away and slaughtered a wedding party.

      (from “Monty Python & The Holy Grail” – The Tale of Sir Lancelot)

      at 7:40 to end

        Quote  Reply

    94. Ten Bears,

      Lol, nice.

      I probably would not have considered Dany evil until she remodeled KL in charcoal/ash grey. She was a mixed bag, but didn’t do anything that bad until “The Bells”. She turned into the “big evil” at the end. I mean, there was a conscious effort on the part of the writers to make Dany look like Hitler in the last episode, so it would be disingenuous to say she didn’t end up evil in the end. If that’s not evil, I don’t know what is.

      I still maintain that she didn’t hear the bells ring because she always had her noise canceling headphones on whenever riding Drogon 😉

      People are usually more complicated than good or evil. It’s almost never 100% one or the other. Nobody should be judged solely on their worst moment, or their best moment for that matter. People are usually more grey, and that’s what I loved about the earlier seasons of GoT.

      For example, Davos called Melisandre “evil” for burning Shireen. I would agree that burning an innocent child to death is evil. Beyond evil even. However, the same person who brutally burned a child alive was also the same person to help save Westeros from the AOTD and she sacrificed herself to do so.

        Quote  Reply

    95. JessicafromMunich,

      I don’t know if you’ve seen it but on the forum part of this site under the “Game of Thrones General Discussion” heading there is a thread about random GoT actors in other shows.

      For myself, I liked The Witcher (though it was perhaps more lightweight fantasy than GoT). Mind you I am something of a pushover for a sword and sorcery drama (though I hated “Camelot”).

        Quote  Reply

    96. Tron79: GRRM wrote…”I tell you this — if I don’t have THE WINDS OF WINTER in hand when I arrive in New Zealand for Worldcon, you have here my formal written permission to imprison me in a small cabin on White Island, overlooking that lake of sulfuric acid, until I’m done….Just so long as the acrid fumes do not screw up my old DOS word processor, I’ll be fine.”

      That’s really not funny now, is it?

        Quote  Reply

    97. JessicafromMunich,
      Have you tried ‘The Last Kingdom’? Three series with a fourth coming this year. I highly recommend it.
      Also, if you don’t mind something that really doesn’t take itself too seriously, ‘Britannia’ is gorily enjoyable and often very funny.

        Quote  Reply

    98. The LightKing:
      Ten Bears,

      Then you didn’t understand her character. Sorry.

      Explain what you mean then. (I’m not being snarky. I’m genuinely interested.)
      Do we define people as “evil” by what’s in their heart, or by the barbaric crimes they commit?

      I was half-kidding when I posted the Monty Python Sir Lancelot wedding slaughter clip above.
      He got carried away in the heat of the moment, convinced he was on a heroic mission to rescue an imprisoned princess. Sort of like medieval road rage. Afterwards he sought to apologize. (Yes, I know, it’s a comedy..)

      I guess what I’m getting at is that decent people can commit crimes of passion, or completely lose their sh*t for a moment and lash out.

      Dany’s problem was that she was sitting on a nuclear weapon when something triggered her road rage. But to me, she crossed over into full-on evil afterwards – when not only did she refuse to acknowledge what she had done, but was all psyched to do encores all over the continent.

      Now, if she had a “psychotic break” or whatever the shrinks would call it, or her megalomaniacal mass murder spree could be attributed to events triggering a genetic Targ predisposition to madness — are you saying she wasn’t evil because she’s become delusional?

      Is she like a black-out drunk who turns violent and kills someone – and then doesn’t remember it the next day – except her “black-out” persisted?

      Honestly, I don’t know where to draw the line. I can almost understand road rage and crimes of passion. (Which is why I’m so anti-gun: “Normal” people wind up killing a driver who cut them off in traffic, or blow away their spouses during a heated argument, when they wouldn’t become murderers if they didn’t have a loaded firearm within reach. However, I digress.)

      To me, anyone who kills with premeditation and without remorse has to be sick in the head somehow. Does that mean they should get a pass? Does that mean they’re not “evil”? Should they be allowed to continue slaughtering people – or is it a moral imperative to stop them, by assassination if that’s the only way?

      I still don’t really get what made Dany snap all of a sudden. Sure, she suffered a series of crushing losses (e.g., deaths of loved ones), unjustified ingratitude, and betrayals. She was rightfully pissed off. She was at war. How did that all translate into incinerating civilian non-combatants in the streets? (The very people she said she had vowed to liberate from tyrants?)

      As Tyrion remarked, everyone cheered her on when she was burning bad guys. When her “fire and blood” campaign targeted a city’s civilian population, was that supposed to indicate she had been wacko and self-centered all along?

      In your view, why was Dany not evil?

        Quote  Reply

    99. Ten Bears: I still don’t really get what made Dany snap all of a sudden. Sure, she suffered a series of crushing losses (e.g., deaths of loved ones), unjustified ingratitude, and betrayals. She was rightfully pissed off. She was at war. How did that all translate into incinerating civilian non-combatants in the streets? (The very people she said she had vowed to liberate from tyrants?)

      I feel the same way. I would’ve understood her incinerating KL out of desperation if she was about to lose the battle and this was her last chance at getting what she wanted all along. I think it would’ve been more compelling that way.

      In the end, she decided to nuke everyone AFTER she had already won and gotten what she wanted. It just didn’t work for me at all. I think there was too much effort into shocking the audience and going for a gotcha moment that I thought some of the logic and empathy that should’ve been there was lacking.

        Quote  Reply

    100. I’ve been gone a couple of days because I didn’t had a lot of free time, and partner is sick so not really had the time for watcher on the wall. But it seems we’re still on the same debates and statements as we could see the future:
      – The books will never be finished. Great that some know that. Maybe use your powers to give us the winning lottery numbers, it would be great.
      – Stop with your fun with your theories about the books because see point above.
      – Show is brilliant because it’s done. Books are bad. Especially because see point one.
      – D&D are bad and season 8 is an abomination. (some had the opposite hardcore opinion but seem to be use less than the GRRM bad D&D good). Yeah making a show is very easy (sarcasm). And I think many were overreacting.
      – PersonA state season 5 till 8 are not perfect, PersonB reacts hatefully about it to just throw the dvds of those seasons out and other things out.

      Well I’m happy to be back (as back as I could be), but those things made me a bit tiresome while reading the comments.

      @Ten bears: I really love your comments as always.
      @Adriana: I still haven’t got time to watch AltShift video you mentioned. I hope I have time this week for it.

      Jon Snowed,

      He confirmed the endings is the same: yes, no, yes no, yes no. So 50% it’s the ending, 50% it’s not. Yes I be that guy. 🙂

      People tend to ignore the whole “no” part in his statement. Why do you think he said that instead of: Yes the ending will be the same?

      And of course the ending will be the same: Bran will be king, Sansa Queen, Dany is responsible for the burning of KL and she will be killed by Jon, Arya will be sailing west, Tyrion will be hand of the king. Cersei and Jaime aren’t main characters in the books and fall into the secondary characters Martin talked about, which will be different in the books. So I will not count those.
      As for how they are filled in could be different in the books. Bran could be King of winter and the statement holds. Bran is king. Sansa could be queen of the 6/7 Kingdoms and the statement holds. She will be queen.
      Euron could take control of a dragon with Dark magic (which seems to be the course the books will go, especially if you read the sample characters you can’t deny this is where the books will go), which will make more sense in the books that Euron will be responsible for the massacre but Dany is blamed for it by the lords and the common folk. And she will probably put down her claim. If this happens it’s still true to the ending of the show: Dany is responsible for the burning of KL. But how it’s filled in could be different. And remember that 2 years ago I was one of the people who predicted that the show would end with Dany losing her shit and burn cities to the ground and that the show would end there and that the burning of the Tarly’s was proof of that. And other’s deemed me mad for thinking this. But for the books there is something different. Show dany always thinks she is good and the savior. Book Dany is different, she even thinks that like her dragons she is also a monster. That should tell people something about book Dany. Is somebody who thinks her actions are making her a monster and she observes her actions like that, somebody who is a monster?
      Back to Nissa Nissa theory, if this theory happens in the books, it’s also true to what the show ending was: Jon kills Dany by stabbing her through the heart.
      And for the books it makes more sense if George gives the burning of KL first: The Dance of Dragons he has been talking about. And after that the war against the dead. Why? Because he has been talking about that he wants to write about tax-policies etc that the king/queen in the end will implement. It makes more sense that we will read those at the same time we will see the battle against the dead playing out.
      The first chapter was also about the battle against the death. There is a rule in writing that you end your story (the last enemy) where the first chapter is about.
      As for arya, I think her going west is because she has to, the FLM are after her for going against a kill they ordered her to do (which I suspect will be killing Alayne stone her sister) instead she will kill the one who gave the order (Myranda Royce).
      As for Bran and Sansa: I don’t care which one will end up king of the 6 kingdoms, so I still think this will be Bran in the books. But still I won’t be surprise if they switched Bran and Sansa in the show, storywise it makes more sense to have the one battling the Others (I suspect they won’t be gone at the end of the books but another 8000 year rest will start where the others are sleeping and that rest will be explained in the books and solve the question: why did they return after 8000 years). Having the 3ER close to the wall would make sense, so he can perform his “magic” to keep the enemy at bay. But that’s just me thinking what would make sense in the books, and I’m not even talking about geography and what the character-arcs of the characters are which both suggest the roles will be reversed.
      Tyrion: It makes sense that he will become hand of the King in the books. But hand of the King to Bran? Does it make more sense he will become hand of the King to YG or Sansa? If you see his connection he already made? With one he already advised to go claim his throne and if he did it would make sense he would trust Tyrion. And the other is his “ex-wife” which he always treated right, which could to Sansa trusting Tyrion.

      And don’t forgot George: yes no yes no yes no. And that D&D won’t go into detail which part of the endings is in the book and which isn’t.

      For me personally I will go with the show ending, it’s the ending we already got, and it feels great that I have a sense of “this is the ending” if the books never see the light of day. But if the books will be published I will not be surprised if we as readers will be surprised to know that there are some difference but that the “labels” seems to be right what the show gave us. “King” “Queen” “Burning KL” “Jon kills Dany” “Hand of the King” But the way it’s filled in is different.

      But I think it doesn’t matter at all, as long as the books are not in our bookshelves. The whole question if the ending is 100% the same in books and show is right now more like “schrodinger’s cat”.
      And personally I’m a bit done with the whole “book ending is same vs different than the show” debate. I think even in 2021 we will still be talking about it and the stances of people are still the same.
      The only thing I would still like is the right to talk about theories I have with some here, which seem to be attacked by some with: You have the show, you know the ending, stop having fun with your theories.

        Quote  Reply

    101. The LightKing,

      Luckily that’s only your opinion. Let people do what they want themselves to do. And isn’t it better for D&D and the makers of GoT if those people still buy things of GoT to make revenue for HBO. If HBO would only concern about people who loved season 5 till 8 100% and only cashed money of those, they would start losing money.

      As long as people buy and put their money into the pockets of in this case HBO they have the right to an opinion about what they paid for.
      Same thing with my work. I work in a restaurant which focus mostly on elderly people, they still pay for their meal. If a guest has a problem with the meal we aren’t going to be “the meal is brilliant, stop complaining.” even when 90% of the guests had no problem, we try to fix the problem with the one guest who has, why? Because they paid for the service we deliver. And it’s the cook’s job to make sure the guest is happy with what they paid for. And that doesn’t mean the cook doesn’t work hard, or I don’t work hard when I’m at work, because I am. Everybody is. Still when the guest has a complain we don’t blame the guest for her or his opinion. And we try to fix it so next time the guest returns to our restaurant instead of keeping away.
      This counts for every work out there, where people work for bare minimum and we think that critic etc is normal to give. Nurses, teachers, roadworkers, waiters etc All working hard for bare minimum but we as people think it’s normal if something is wrong that we complain to them, as is our right because we pay for those services. but when it comes to writers of TV who earn millions per season, yes it’s hard work, but it’s work that most of us dream of, they are excuse of any critic or else people should throw out their merchandise etc They are no gods, they are like everybody human beings who are no excused to get professional critic.
      What they don’t deserve like any living person out there, is being attacked personally. That means everything that is not related to their work on the show but their personal lives.

        Quote  Reply

    102. kevin1989: @Adriana: I still haven’t got time to watch AltShift video you mentioned. I hope I have time this week for it.

      This new video isn’t out yet but I’ll let you know when it is! 🙂 I hope things settle for you a bit, they sound busy, I hope your partner starts feeling better 🙁

        Quote  Reply

    103. Adrianacandle,

      Nicely said Adriana 🙂 And I concede your opinion.

      The LightKing,

      As for me I always treated other shows more harshly than GoT. Why? Because GoT is my favorite show out there. So it get’s free passes where other’s won’t get them. But that’s just me 🙂

      And there is no need to label other’s who don’t share your opinion as “dumb”. They talk with respect to you without name calling.

      Tron79,

      I personally hope it’s done before that, but then I would have expected a Christmas announcement. He updated his site that there will be publish information in the near future, so who knows.

      But GRRM is a a bit a politician when it comes to deadlines. It’s always later.

        Quote  Reply

    104. Adrianacandle,

      Agree with the Office, but still I loved “Robert Callifornia” and I really loved the ending of the Office. I cried my eyes out there. So even when I found season 8 and 9 less than the first 7, I still loved the ending.

      For me the show that I felled this was Grey’s anatomy. I loved that show the first seasons. But after season 5 the show went downhill, and season 11 was the first season that I wish the show would just stop.

        Quote  Reply

    105. kevin1989,

      Thank-you, Kevin!

      And I agree about The Office. I did enjoy Robert California but it was never quite the same after Michael left. I think my top seasons were 2-4. I agree the series ultimately had a nice ending 🙂 I felt Parks & Recreation remained strong throughout. I really really love The Office but I think I enjoy Parks & Rec more. My current favourite comedy/dramedy is between The Good Place and The Marvelous Mrs Maisel but The Office and Parks & Rec will always be favourites 🙂

      I haven’t watched Grey’s Anatomy but I’ve definitely felt similarily about other shows. With some series, I just reach a point where I can’t anymore, no matter how much I enjoyed (and still enjoy) the earlier seasons. I think I’m ultimately unable to push through season 7 of Once Upon A Time for instance 🙁 I can appreciate what they’re trying to do but I don’t think it’s really working (for me).

        Quote  Reply

    106. Ten Bears,

      When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then winds of winter will be released, and not before.

      But let’s hope it will be before that.

      Ten Bears: You can like some aspects and dislike other aspects of something. In time, the good memories remain and the bad ones tends to fade.

      Of course, I could be talking about an ex-gf, so don’t listen to me. 🤭

      Made me think about naked gun 1.

        Quote  Reply

    107. It seems that life north the Wall agrees with Jon Snow, looking good there! But Ygritte must be a wight… because I swear I saw her die a few years ago. But as far as wights go, she looks damn good as well!

        Quote  Reply

    108. Adrianacandle,

      Luckily I though I missed it.

      Adrianacandle,

      Agree, Season 5 was great because of the wedding, I found that very beautiful.

      As for Once Upon a Time. I liked the first season but every season felled worse than the one before. And the ending, I didn’t like it, but I think it was still true to the show itself.

        Quote  Reply

    109. Mr Derp: I feel the same way.I would’ve understood her incinerating KL out of desperation if she was about to lose the battle and this was her last chance at getting what she wanted all along.I think it would’ve been more compelling that way.

      In the end, she decided to nuke everyone AFTER she had already won and gotten what she wanted. It just didn’t work for me at all. I think there was too much effort into shocking the audience and going for a gotcha moment that I thought some of the logic and empathy that should’ve been there was lacking.

      (Shameless Arya references follow…)

      What didn’t work for me, and where I felt there was a logic and empathy deficit, was the inexplicable ingratitude and disdain Dany faced upon her arrival in WF – part of what came off as too many contrivances packed together to make her feel isolated, unloved, and betrayed to help push her over the edge.

      • I was ticked off that the unwarranted “Dany sucks” attitude forced Arya to act out of character and reject Dany simply because “she’s not one of us.” That is SO not Arya. She’s not xenophobic like that. She never discriminated based on class, status or family name. (Did Arya even spend one minute with Dany? How could she despise her without ever conversing with her?)

      • If Arya was going to have preconceived bias, she would have been appreciative and welcoming: Arya’s S8e2 battlements conversation with Sandor confirmed that she knew about the wight hunt and the Frozen Lake: “You joined the Brotherhood. You went beyond the Wall with Jon…” That necessarily meant she had to know that Daenerys heroically and unselfishly saved Jon and all of his comrades from certain death.

      • Most disappointing (for me) were not only the missed opportunities for “high thread count” moments between presumptive kindred spirits (the warrior princess and the dragon queen) played by two of the lead actresses on the show; but also…

      • The show had established Arya’s admiration for dragon-riding Targaryean women. Arya should have been squeeing when she met a real life Targaryean Queen with real live dragons.

      • In my view, Arya’s S2e7 scene with Tywin in which she spoke about Rhaenys and Visenya Targaryean and the dragons they rode, seemed a natural setup, if not foreshadowing, of her eventual encounter with (and excitement over meeting), Daenerys Targaryean and her dragons.
      (In that S2 scene (link and dialogue below) Arya was fangirling: “Visenya Targaryean was a great warrior. She had a Valyrian steel sword she called Dark Sister.”
      Tywin could plainly see: “She’s a heroine of yours I take it.”)

      • Here’s that wonderful (show-only) scene:

      at 3:20 – 4:16

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g73blU5BRTU

      Tywin: “Harren the Black thought this castle would be his legacy. The greatest fortress ever built. The tallest towers, the strongest walls. The Great Hall had 35 hearths. 35! Can you imagine? Look at it now. A blasted ruin. Do you know what happened?”

      Arya: “Dragons?”

      Tywin: “Yes. Dragons happened. Harrenhal was built to withstand an attack from the land. A million men could have marched on these walls and a million men would have been repelled. But an attack from the air with dragon fire… Mm. Harren and all his sons roasted alive within these walls.
      Aegon Targaryen changed the rules. That’s why every child alive still knows his name 300 years after his death.”

      Arya: “Aegon… and his sisters.”

      Tywin: “Mm?”

      Arya: “It wasn’t just Aegon riding his dragon. It was Rhaenys and Visenya, too.”

      Tywin: “Correct. A student of history, are you?”

      Arya: “Rhaenys rode Meraxes. Visenya rode Vhagar.”

      Tywin: “I’m sure I knew that when I was a boy.”

      Arya. “Visenya Targaryen was a great warrior. She had a Valyrian steel sword she called Dark Sister.”

      Tywin: “She’s a heroine of yours, I take it?

      (Arya smiles)
      ——————————

      • Honestly, watching the pre-S8 teasers and trailers showing Arya looking up at the sky in awe, had me looking forward to some quality Dany-Arya interactions. (My fan service wishful thinking had me imaging Dany taking Arya out for a spin on a dragon. In retrospect I would’ve preferred that over the corny Jon + Dany dragon ride in e1.)

      [Interruption for a minor quibble here: Why does it seem that in film and television, guys readily bond and become fast friends, while women are not infrequently portrayed as antagonistic?]

      • Its a shame they had to use Arya as an anti-Dany partisan when they could have had some kickass scenes of the two of them together.

      – End

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    110. Mr Derp,

      l maintain that she didn’t hear the bells ring because she always had her noise canceling headphones on whenever riding Drogon 😉”

      ——
      It was just bad timing. She was listening to “Dark Side of the Moon” on her headphones. The intro to “Time” started playing with its cacophony of alarm bells.

      By the time the song was over, the city was gone.

        Quote  Reply

    111. Ten Bears,

      That season 2 scene between Arya Stark and Tywin Lannister is one of the best! Arya should’ve talked to Jon and Daenerys Targaryen about their family history in season 8.

      D&D also should’ve shown Sansa telling Tyrion that Littlefinger was the one who killed King Joffrey and D&D should’ve also shown Jaime telling Tyrion that the Queen of Thorns Lady Olenna Tyrell also had a part in murdering King Joffrey. So many missed conversations….

        Quote  Reply

    112. Tron79,

      I’m very excited for this movie, have been since I heard Maisie Williams was cast. The delays have been a little annoying, but if the trailer is anything to go by, it doesn’t look like the post-production problems have affected the quality. I hope it’s good!

        Quote  Reply

    113. mau,

      Maybe I’m being too optimistic, but I think there is still a chance Martin will finish his story, albeit a small one. I would say that there is a 90% chance he finishes Winds, a 33% chance he finishes Dream, and if he requires an eighth book or more, a .0000000002% he finishes the series.

        Quote  Reply

    114. Ten Bears,

      I agree that some plot points were dropped, but I can’t say I care all that much. I don’t particularly like prophecies in general, and Sam and Bran aren’t exactly my favorite characters. Still, I don’t think you give them enough credit. Sam discovered that there was a mountain of dragonglass beneath Dragonstone that allowed Jon to arm his entire army. Without it, they wouldn’t stand a chance. Bran used himself as bait to draw the Night King out into the open, thus allowing Arya to kill him and end the White Walker threat. Now, will they have a bigger role in the books? Probably, but that doesn’t take away from what they accomplished in the show.

      The writing for Tyrion did change, but only with his dialogue. He became less witty, and his jokes were worse, but his dramatic scenes were still on point. And Tyrion did not become stupid, as you and several others falsely claim. You fail to consider the situation he was in. First on foremost, he was fighting against his family, who he cared for, despite their feelings toward him. He was trying to put pressure on Cersei so she would surrender peacefully. In other words, he was trying to take Westeros for Danerys without wiping out his family in the process. It’s a classic trying to have your cake and eat it too scenario. Secondly, he was trying to win Danerys the throne in a way so the people of Westeros would throw their support behind her. That means not just releasing her dragons and having them burn everything.

      I’m not sure what you mean about Jon. He’s shown tremendous growth and character development, which was emphasized when he stabbed the woman he loves in the heart.

        Quote  Reply

    115. Ten Bears:
      I still don’t really get what made Dany snap all of a sudden. Sure, she suffered a series of crushing losses (e.g., deaths of loved ones), unjustified ingratitude, and betrayals. She was rightfully pissed off. She was at war. How did that all translate into incinerating civilian non-combatants in the streets? (The very people she said she had vowed to liberate from tyrants?)

      Danerys burned down King’s Landing for the same reason she burned Miri Maz Dur, she crucified 163 slavers in Mereen, she fed a slaver to her dragons, and she was getting ready to torch Yunkai and Astapor to the ground. Danerys punishes those she believes have wronged her, and after Missandei and Rhaegal’s death, after she realized the citizens of King’s Landing chose Cersei over her, they fit that criteria. Dany’s turn was consistent with a pattern of behavior she established over the course of the series.
      Ten Bears,

      You forget how much damage and atrocities the Targaryen family have committed against the Starks and the North. It was only natural that Danerys wouldn’t be welcome with open arms, especially considering that she was marching with an army of foreigners, including Dothraki savages, as well as two dragons. That’s not even mentioning the fact that the North just received their freedom again, only, in their minds, for Danerys to take it away.

      After everything Arya has been through, it makes sense that she was going to be weary of Danerys and see her as a potential threat. Now, she was only advising Jon to be cautious. She wasn’t making political moves against Danerys like her sister, but I felt that also was in Sansa’s character. All that being said, I too would have liked a scene between Arya and Danerys, but I don’t begrudge the show just because it doesn’t give me what I want.

        Quote  Reply

    116. firstone:
      Ten Bears,

      That season 2 scene between Arya Stark and Tywin Lannister is one of the best!
      *****
      D&D also should’ve shown Sansa telling Tyrion that Littlefinger was the one who killed King Joffrey and D&D should’ve also shown Jaime telling Tyrion that the Queen of Thorns Lady Olenna Tyrell also had a part in murdering King Joffrey. So many missed conversations….

      1. I know! That Arya – Tywin scene never gets old. (I’m sure you can understand why I felt so deflated when S8 rolled around and Arya didn’t connect with Daenerys Targaryean at all, and instead helped alienate her for no good reason.

      2. Good points! I had not thought about “missed conversations” involving the innocence of Tyrion and guilt of LF and Olenna for Joffrey’s death.

      3 I’m still cranky about the “missed conversations” during the first, walking and talking portion of “Beyond the Wall” and Beric & co. in the Eastwatch cells in the prior episode.
      NONE of them asked or said a word about Jon’s little sister. Not Gendry. Not Beric. Not Thoros. Not Sandor. Not even Jon. Each of them had gotten close to her and spent months or years with her during overlapping stretches over four years:
      Gendry (NW recruits leaving KL in S1e10 through his mid-S3 sale to Mel); Thoros snd Beric (S3: Arya was BwoB’s “guest”); Sandor (early to mid-S3 to end of S4e10)

      It just wasn’t normal that none of them said a word about her, or asked about her welfare or whereabouts. She was the common link between all these guys, and her brother was their leader.

      For that matter, when Jon saw the Hound among the detainees in the Eastwatch cells, I expected him to be shocked: “OMG! I heard Brienne sent you over a cliff to your death during a fight over Arya! You’re alive?!” Instead. Jon’s meek comment was “I saw you once at WF.”
      I thought the Hound would grumble to Jon about that firecracker sister and that sword “Needle” that he gave her – and then ask Jon if she was safe and where she was.

      I’ll stop.

      PS “Missed Conversations” could have their own Forum section.

        Quote  Reply

    117. kevin1989,

      I agree. The story in the first season was solid. The stories which happened afterward felt like they were getting more and more “tacked on”. As seasons went on, OUAT kept adding on more “developments” to earlier established plot points in (what I felt like was) an effort just to keep the series going after the original story had wrapped up. Not in the way of exploring “undiscovered” details or uncovering mysteries that had been established but OUAT felt like that game where there are a bunch of kids sitting in a circle and one kid would start a story before the story was passed to the next kid and they made up what happened next, and then the next kid added what happened next, etc.

      There was no planning of extra plot beyond the original story but it kept going back to those original plots and heaping more and more on.

      Plus, they kept doing the same thing over and over. Once a season, Regina and/or Rumple would be redeemed from the dark side — before slipping back to the dark side. Again and again and again. I think Rumple had this problem way worse than Regina, I felt like Regina’s redemption kept after the first two or three tries, but it was over and over and over for Rumple.

      Are you talking about the season 6 ending or the season 7 ending? I did like the ending presented in season 6 but I haven’t been able to power through season 7.

      When OUAT originally aired, I think I watched up to season 5 and then stopped. However, since it’s a) a series with a ton of episodes, b) a show that I can still find entertaining in parts, has a good cast, but doesn’t need my full attention, and b) it’s a show I find innocuous, I think it’s a good option to watch when I’m needing something to listen to in the background while working on a project.

        Quote  Reply

    118. Young Dragon

      After everything Arya has been through, it makes sense that she was going to be weary of Danerys…”

      ———-
      Why “weary”?
      Should we ask Kevin Costner as Crash Davis quoting Otis Redding?

      0:00 -0:30

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EroyjPcw3sg

      ————
      Try a Little Tenderness – Otis Redding

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSJQjwekH-4

      “Oh she may be weary
      Them young girls they do get wearied
      Wearing that same old shaggy dress, yeah, yeah
      But when she gets weary
      Try a little tenderness, yeah, yeah.

        Quote  Reply

    119. This is the one question I would like David and Dan to answer: why they missed out so many scenes and exchanges between characters. We know it wasn’t down to lack of source material because there are plenty of original scenes which proved them to be very capable writers.

        Quote  Reply

    120. Young Dragon:
      Tron79,

      I’m very excited for this movie, have been since I heard Maisie Williams was cast. The delays have been a little annoying, but if the trailer is anything to go by, it doesn’t look like the post-production problems have affected the quality. I hope it’s good!

      This movie?

      New Mutants Trailer #2
      with Maisie Williams:

        Quote  Reply

    121. Young Dragon,

      I’m personally more scared that we will never see any dunk & Egg book in the future 🙁 Which I like personally.

      Adrianacandle,

      Yes 7. The ending is pretty boring

      All the fairytale kingdoms, which are in OUAT of course some sort of multiple dimensions. Are all brought together in one big kingdom, with if I remember right, Henry as their King. It fits the story but it felled to cheap for me.

      and I also found the whole “Love sort everything” a bit overdone in the show, especially when

      Snow White split her heart to save charming.

        Quote  Reply

    122. The LightKing:
      kevin1989,

      I don’t believe you.

      Well that’s your problem not mine. And I think I know better how I feel and think about things and I don’t need your approval for it.

      I would love no matter what the world of song of Ice and fire bring because I like the world of Planetos and the characters. Even if they would just have a whole season of Arya and Sandor together wandering planetos I would have watched it.

      And if another show did what they did with for instance the Sandsnakes and Euron it would have drop on my favorite list. Not GoT it sticked on place 1, the show I keep talking about the whole time with friends.

        Quote  Reply

    123. Grandmaester Flash,

      They weren’t necessary for the plot. I agree, that a view more character scenes would have been nice, but the absence didn’t harm the plot. I hoped for a scene between Daenerys and Arya but I can unterstand why they left it out. This scenes wouldn’t change much.

        Quote  Reply

    124. kevin1989,

      Good for you. The Arya and Sandor scenes were on of the best. I love them and that’s why I don’t like it when people call a episode boring if not so much happens. I love to see the characters and how they interact with each other, the amazing atmosphere and the music. That’s enough for me. That’s why I don’t care for much action. I could watch Arya and Sandor just talking for hours or Tyrion and Cercei. I was pretty grateful for their scene in the season 7 final.

        Quote  Reply

    125. Ten Bears,

      Yep, that’s the one. I’m usually not that big into horror movies, but I have made exceptions, like It, It Chapter 2, and Brightburn. I can add The New Mutants to that list.

        Quote  Reply

    126. kevin1989,

      For clarification, are you more worried about Dunk and Egg because you like it more than ASOIAF, or is it because you’re more confident that Martin will complete ASOIAF than Dunk and Egg?

        Quote  Reply

    127. The LightKing,

      Same here, the thing is the world of ice and fire is just an amazing world, you could make 10 series that maybe rate a 6 or 7. And at the end of the day, I would enjoy those mediocre shows set in Westeros (I mean if they are just mediocre it could happen) better than some 10 rating shows. I mean I think Dunk & Egg would be a show like that, just ok-ish, but I would love a show like that.

      Too many shows are trying to make the best show ever and many times I don’t like it. While I much more enjoy some mediocre shows that doesn’t try to be better than they really are. I also have that with gaming, I’m a casual gamer with a ps4. I liked for instance Assasins creed saga because I enjoy the game play of that saga, but hardcore gamers just put that into the mediocre category, I don’t care as long as I enjoy them. But some other saga’s that they praise like Witcher’s that many hardcore gamers praise to the heavens, I like the games but not really enjoy it.

      So at the end of the day with GoT, I see the problems that she show had, especially with the later seasons, I don’t care if that’s D&D, GRRM not finishing it’s books, HBO interfering with their points that they want in the show or other things, I see those problems and when watching I could just ignore them and enjoy the show.

        Quote  Reply

    128. Young Dragon:
      kevin1989,

      For clarification, are you more worried about Dunk and Egg because you like it more than ASOIAF, or is it because you’re more confident that Martin will complete ASOIAF than Dunk and Egg?

      The later, I think Martin will first finish his main story, then Fire & blood (which I think part 2 is his last one, he probably already wrote half of it until he decided to shelf it for winds of winter), and Dunk & Egg is pushed down, he first wanted to write Dunk & Egg before Dream, but he changed his mind first asoiaf and F+B.

      I think Martin is currently already finished with winds and with that statement I mean, what will be roughly winds, I think he is stuck with 3 things: 1. one or 2 characters he really can’t get into but I think he finish of many characters already some parts of dream. I think that character is Bran, it’s the character he has the most difficult with to get into when writing, and it’s also important to make his chapters work when it’s connected to the biggest treat of the story. 2. I think he still doesn’t know where he wants to end his book, with that I mean, he writes around 300 pages of the next book and then he decided the break point of the book, especially with the amount of manuscripts he can put in max into the book he will have the same problem he had with Dance, where do you break each storyline, which storylines do he push to the next book maybe through flashback or back in time like Stannis in winds (back in time compared to Jon), I think that problem is also at the end of winds. If he put in this ending perfectly then this ending has a strange breakpoint. 3. His revisiting the books. After he finish the book he needs to read his book and make changes before sending it to the editor, and again this happens again after the editor take a look at it.

      I think when we see winds on the shelf, dream will be much faster. He probably end half of his storylines at the end of winds (or beginning dream which I expect he already wrote those endings before publishing winds), meaning he has less characters to get into the mind off, and that happen in the last book more often, every thing a character arc ends, his mind is a bit clearer for the next part. Also his big plot-mysteries are getting tied in dream, he only need to fill in the last pieces of the puzzle per mystery, and I expect him to do that in a way that answer many mysteries in just one reveal. While in winds everything is still it’s own string, in dreams multiple strings are answered in one reveal. Once that reveal is written it lifts him off some chaos in his head.

      But Dunk & Egg no I don’t think so, I expect that 2025 is maybe the year we get Dream and F+Bp2 at last (all 3 books out) and how long would it take to end his whole Dunk & Egg story.

        Quote  Reply

    129. Fireandblood87:
      Ten Bears,

      Yes but Arya is not the same little girl she was in season 2. She is changed.

      She’s still not someone who’d be prejudiced against anyone who’s “not one of us” or dismissive based solely on family name:

      S7e1 Arya with camping Lannister soldiers

      (soldier: “be kind to strangers and strangers will be kind to you.”)

        Quote  Reply

    130. The LightKing: They weren’t necessary for the plot. I agree, that a view more character scenes would have been nice, but the absence didn’t harm the plot. I hoped for a scene between Daenerys and Arya but I can unterstand why they left it out. This scenes wouldn’t change much.

      But the show has never been entirely about plot. It was much richer than that.

      You say you understand why they left out character scenes – care to explain why? We are not dealing with anything elaborate here, just people talking in rooms. No new sets or costumes required. They would not have been very expensive in terms of money or time.

        Quote  Reply

    131. The LightKing:
      kevin1989,

      Did you play Red Dead Redemption 2?

      No, but I hear it a great game, maybe in the future, for me most of the time it’s a choice that I make. I like books and tv shows more than gaming. So I rather stick with the games I know and love than change to another game-franchise. I only started the witcher games because of the show, and maybe I will read the books because of it. And God of War is in my possession because a friend keeps talking about that I need to play it. Luckily it is a short game.

      My favorite game remains Last of Us (which I even maxed out on PS throphies, which I can tell you is not easy, one part took me days to finally get done) but it remains my favorite game because of it’s story and that the gameplay feels fair. If you die, you really feel you fucked up yourself instead of some unbalanced enemy system. And I like that at the end of the game you really feel for the characters and the game let you make a “unconsciously” decision at the end that you didn’t have to make. (How far are you willing to go to safe the one you love).

      But for me I keep it with these 2 games, witcher 3 and god of war, after that I sell my ps4. And maybe when I get my ps5 I will buy some ps4 games that I missed on that. Reason is that I want to do more reading and back to learning guitar and piano (keyboard but piano sounds classier).
      Did you know that you can play ps1 till ps4 games on ps5?

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    132. Grandmaester Flash,

      It would even be cheaper, look back at season 1. They added some cheap scenes (money wise) that were amazing storywise, like Cersei Robert scene. I think GoT is best when it focused on the character moments, they have a unique take on it that I never saw in another show.

      Another show that shows that you can make a show work with a lot of character moments is Leftovers. It doesn’t contain that much plot, but still I personally was very invested in it. I really cared for the characters. And the thing is even when you have a lot of character moments, you can sneak in the plot into those dialogues. It’s much richer to further plot through some character moments than it is through action/battles in my opinion. (Peaky blinders does this brilliantly in my opinion)

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    133. Grandmaester Flash: But the show has never been entirely about plot.It was much richer than that.

      You say you understand why they left out character scenes – care to explain why?We are not dealing with anything elaborate here, just people talking in rooms.No new sets or costumes required.They would not have been very expensive in terms of money or time.

      Amen.
      It’s why we got “people talking” scenes like this….

      S4e7 Sandor tells Arya about Gregor

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    134. kevin1989,

      The Last of Us is my favorite game too, exactly for the same reasons. I am so hyped for part 2. I will build a gaming PC in February. I will wait a bit longer before I buy a Ps5. Yes I know that the Ps5 is compatible with ps1-4 games 🙂

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    135. I’ve long been of the belief that we would definitely get Winds but unlikely to see ADOS. Remember everyone was expecting Winds before S6, GRRM met his publishers in New York, HBO were willing to delay airing then it all dropped off. Despite the fact several chapters were written (originally in ADWD), he’d been working on Winds for several years. He then cancelled several engagements to prioritise Winds, 3 years later and still nothing. Mostly likely we get that book in the next couple of years but I highly doubt, I’d even say it’s near impossible, we see the final one. I wouldn’t even be surprised if he writes Fire & Blood Part 2 before Winds is released. Dunk & Egg will also drop so that’ the next 3-4 years covered before he even begins ADOS and he’s already fairly old so likely to write even slow over time.

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    136. Kit Harington must feel a bit weird after a job that defined his life for his twenties and early thrties is over. He’s free. He can reinvent himself, do different stuff, not constrained by financial worries. I wish all the best for Kit Harington’s, and also Rose Leslie’s career.

      What have other GoT alumni been up to?

      I know Kristofer Hivju (Tormund in GoT) has starred in a Norwegian 8-part drama series about twin brothers meeting up after a long while (KH plays both roles). I’m really looking forward to binge-watching the thing. It’s called Twin in English, I don’t know where it might be available outside Nordic audiences (our public broadcasting services – Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland – all pitched in, and get to broadcast and stream it first).

      Another Nordic GoT alumni I’ve always had a soft spot for is Nikolaij Coster-Waldau (Jaime in GoT). He’s apparently got enough acting roles going domestically (Denmark) and internationally but still finds time to front a climate-conscious 5-part documentary series about Greenland. His dad relationship, his Greenlandic wife and her family, his affinity to Greenland, the nature, climate change. It’s well worth watching if you can catch it on some service. NCW is genuine, sincere about climate. He’s seen the change even durig his lifetime, how the glaciers retreat. I’m glad Greenland has now got a high-profile spokesperson in NCW, also Nukaaka Coster-Waldau and even the two daughters.

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    137. The LightKing,

      I’m also very excited for Last of Us 2. Which choice did you make at the end?

      About killing the nurses? I was so pumped up and angry about what they were going to do to Ellie that I just shot one of them. Then I though, wait I didn’t have to do that they were unarmed. It was nice of the makers to put such a psychological point into the game and how far you would go for the one you care about.

      About part 2. I will wait till the ps5 version is out. I have to wait a bit longer (probably a year before I buy ps5) but than at least I can buy the remastered version that includes the DLC (which I suspect we will once again get one of).

      I really hope part 2 is as good as part 1. If it’s even half as good as part 1, I’m satisfied.

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    138. Ten Bears,

      Well double, it looks at least better than the last X-men movie I saw. (part 3 of the prequels still need to watch Dark Phoenix). But I wonder if it’s something I could watch a whole movie about. Escaping from evil facility. I hope that we get at least some character building in this movie instead of jump scare the whole time.

      What I’m interesting in is how Maissie will do, I think she will be brilliant. (It seems I have you checkmate with this sentence)

      Jon Snowed,

      Well he states that Dunk and Egg is delayed till after AsoaIF and F+B is done. He also stated that the first book he will publish will be winds. First he state that maybe he will first publish D+E or F+B part 2, but he changed his priorities.

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