Joe Dempsie on Gendry’s Season 8 Journey and the End of Game of Thrones

Davos Gendry Eastwatch

Joe Dempsie (Gendry), as with all cast members, has been fairly tight-lipped on the future of Game of Thrones, while teasing bits of what’s to (or might) come. For a character whose role steadily increased for the first three seasons, only to disappear for the next three and a half, his popularity with the fandom has seemingly never waned. In an interview with Metro, Dempsie speaks pretty bluntly:

“It almost got to the point where I would define the success, or otherwise, of my year by what else I’d done work-wise outside Game Of Thrones. I’d almost forget that I’d done it…When I reflect on Gendry’s journey through the series I’m increasingly pleased with the way it’s gone on a personal level.”

He also teased some interesting tidbits about the show’s entire conclusion…

Apparently Dempsie is an avid reader of the Internet, noting that there is a specific fan theory about his character. I am not one for Internet theorizing, so apologies to all you theory-mongers out there, but I’d assume that he’s referring to his own claim to the Iron Throne, and the speculation that he might end up on the chair himself. However, he thinks that that would be rather anticlimactic, and that the actual ending will be stronger:

“I’m sure David [Benioff] and Dan [Weiss] don’t pay too much attention to people’s theories and speculation there is all over the internet, but it would be a bit of an anti-climax if a well popularised theory turned out to be the way it ended. There’s many pitfalls and I think they really have achieved that with this. It’s an ending I don’t think many people will be expecting and I think, on reflection, people will really, really enjoy.”

As a person who absolutely loved the finale to LOST despite widespread opposition from the Internet at large (sorry, Lindelof/Cuse), I can’t wait to see what David and Dan have in store for us.

While we’re at it, what are everyone’s thoughts on the final season only having 6 (albeit potentially enlarged) episodes? I am of the mindset that I trust the creators, although I see no need for rushing things. I’d personally rather 10 hour-long episodes than 6 super-long episodes that overstay their welcome. Dempsie takes a pretty centrist view:

“You can either tell it really well and in a really exciting way over six episodes or if you really wanted we could pad it out over ten and it wouldn’t be anywhere near as good. So I think quality trumps quantity, and I hope that’s what ends up being the case.”

Maybe you’ll get a chance to dive into Dempsie’s psyche and pick his brain about season 8 at the upcoming Con of Thrones, for which he was recently announced! See you there!

67 responses

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    1. It’s an ending I don’t think many people will be expecting and I think, on reflection, people will really, really enjoy.”
      ———————
      Good luck dodging the bombardment of questions at Con of Thrones, Joe.

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    2. I think it’s just a bit difficult, from the outside looking in, to imagine a ten-episode final season — still a lean number, if you ask me! — “padding things out” much when there are still so many balls in the air. Compounding matters is the fact that, while I thoroughly enjoyed Season 7, I do feel like it’s biggest flaw is that it felt a bit rushed to me. Still, I have little reason to doubt I’ll love Season 8. There hasn’t been a season I haven’t loved. I’m fortunate. But right now it feels a tad unlikely I won’t look back in five years, ten years, twenty years, and not think, “I still wish it were ten.” 😛

      As for Dempsie’s comment on Iron Throne fan theories? More and more, I find myself wondering if the whole “nobody sits on the Iron Throne; it’s destroyed and Westeros has to rebuild with a newer wheel” route is being taken. If so, and provided of course I like the character beats and sendoffs on the road to ruin, I’ll be thoroughly satisfied. It’s possible of course that the ending really is something very few of us have pondered. But I think, given the annual bevvy of web articles asking people the big question of who’s going to become king/queen in the series finale, the overarching public is probably of the opinion that someone will, and if King’s Landing is leveled and the Seven Kingdoms are truly several again? That’d shake the masses.

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    3. My perfectionist nature will be my undoing someday, I swear to the Old Gods and the New. I meant its in the second sentence, not it’s. (And of course I ran out of time to edit.)

      (Carry on. Don’t mind me.)

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    4. Quinton O’Connor,

      I’m glad you corrected it. It irks me when people use “it’s” [= it is] instead of “its” [possessive], and the other way around, though I understand that sometimes Auto Correct screws it up.

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    5. I think he has a point, better have 6 (little bit longer episodes), that really tell a story each episode, than 10 smaller episodes. We’re at an endgame, the battles will be longer so the set up in the episode itself need to be longer. Now they can combine battle and character building in one episode.

      And there’s more to think about:
      – we can expect longer scenes (like in season 7, Jon meeting dany, dragon pit etc. You just can’t have only 3 scenes an episode).
      – “Cliffhangers”/breaks, more episodes means more endings and breaks in the story. For a last season I expect you want every episode end in a cliffhanger that get you back on your seat the next week. Now they can achieve that with ending every episode in a big bang or plottwist. And the ending of the episode means also you are taking out of the story, and need to restart in the week after. If we take last years episodes, what if they would have split episode 6 and 7 in 3 episode, they could have done that with screentime, but storywise how it turned out is way better.
      – And I think I can think of other factors as well.

      About lost: Nice to see somebody liked the ending as well as me, I still feel emotional even thinking about it.

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    6. Ten Bears:
      Quinton O’Connor,

      I’m glad you corrected it. It irks me when people use “it’s” [= it is] instead of “its” [possessive],and the other way around, though I understand that sometimes Auto Correct screws it up.

      That’s exactly what happened too! Damned phones, I’ll tell ya!

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    7. It’s an ending I don’t think many people will be expecting and I think, on reflection, people will really, really enjoy.

      There’s no way the fandom as a whole will be satisfied with the ending. It will be divisive. How can it not be, given the passionate following the show has? Some of us just aren’t going to like the way the story goes, or our favorite characters.

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    8. Tensor the Mage, Who (If Sufficienctly Drunk) Would Admit He Spent Way Too Much Time in North Jersey says:

      It’s an ending I don’t think many people will be expecting and I think, on reflection, people will really, really enjoy.

      Screen fades to black after Tony eats an onion ring?!? 😀

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    9. Enharmony1625,

      I’m just wary of the “on reflection” qualifier in that statement. Does that mean the initial reaction might be “WTF?”

      I don’t want to have to “reflect” on the ending before deciding I “really really enjoy” it. I want to enjoy it when it happens.

      – A selfish fan

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    10. This isn’t the first time one of the cast members have forecasted the ending to be “surprising”. If that’s the case than it worries me mildly because it appears GoT is going to have some wicked twists that could potentially turn the series on its head. I just hope these potential “twists” are grounded within the overarching narrative and make sense. I want the ending to feel earned most of all though.

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    11. Well seeing that GRRM admitted that a number of fans already figured the ending, I don’t think it’s to surprising to a number of super fans, TV only fans let’s see how it goes.

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    12. My vote for a popular fan theory is Gendry getting legitimized being given Storms End, marrying Arya and ensuring a future for House Baratheon. But I don’t actually see Arya going for that so maybe he leaves SE with a good caretaker and they sail off into the west in search of adventure.
      Because come on, Gendry and Arya are meant to be together. 🙃

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    13. Ten Bears:
      kevin1989,

      I’d watch three episodes of just Jorah and Beric in a boat going in circles reciting that “Doom of Valyria” poem over and over again.

      I would watch the f*ck out of that.

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    14. I’m starting to wonder if the ending is going to be a WTF. This is not the first hint of it. Maisie said something similar about it not being what people expect. And didn’t she say something about there being division with the fans over it? That may have been Isaac who had similar comments about the ending with his expectation of some people liking it and some people not.

      Of course the ending may be what most people think and this is the attempt to get people off the trail. GRRM has already stated some people guessed the ending. And if everyone is telling the truth and D&D are doing the same ending George told them, than it shouldn’t be all that big a WTF type thing. So who knows.

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    15. I’m realizing the worst part of 6 episodes by rewatching Stark reunion scenes in S7. After a few episodes, you realize there aren’t many episodes left to choose from and that’s horrible.

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    16. Ten Bears,

      Yeah, I hear you! It’s really hard to say what he means by “on reflection” and what that means for the ending. What I hope it means is that the ending will leave us with a lot to think about. Not in the way that it leaves things unresolved, but that the theme of the ending — it’s meaning and place in the story — will leave us reflecting on the series as a whole. Or put another way, that it may not be easy to accept, but in terms of the story it is satisfying and meaningful.

      At least that’s what I hope he means. It better not be some out-of-left-field twist for the sake of WTFs that we then have to “reflect” over to be able to accept or enjoy like you said.

      I’ve always loved the ending to Breaking Bad. It resolved the story and the characters of Walt and Jesse very well but still left a lot of things to think and reflect over, such as those two characters’ relationship, Walt admitting to himself and to his wife the man he became and what he’d done, etc. I’ve always liked those kind of endings that stay with you for years to come.

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    17. Ten Bears:
      Tensor the Mage, Who (If Sufficienctly Drunk) Would Admit He Spent Way Too Much Time in North Jersey,

      Perfect example. It took three years before some fans decided they “liked” the non-ending ending to “The Sopranos.”

      I liked that ending from the first time I saw it. For me it is what the show is about. Life. And in life there isn’t a perfect ending. It just ends.

      About the ending of got: I stay with my gut feeling. Dany will not survive the show. That will be the wtf moment that some people need to reflect on before they like it. For me it’s the only logical explanation. It can fit in the story.(Jon’s death doesn’t fit because of the build up of his parentage).

      I’m not a Dany hater before some say that. But I have some gut feeling that the part of the fanbase they’re talking about who will not like the ending is in fact Dany fans. They’re pretty big part of the Fandom. It would fit in with many statements of the cast. Especially Jason momoa who said something about that there is going to happen something thats gonna fuck people up. The only part of got he cares about is Danys storyline. And what if he was on set not only as a visitor but for a scene in the night lands? A la house of the undying.

      Or maybe the wtf is about the ww.

      Offtopic: I was wondering this week. If we will get a small invasion in the Earie.remember in season 1 when they said nobody could impregnate it. I would like to see that in season 8. Somebody need to take it over. Cercei or wights. Or we need to see that it’s really impregnable by having it as a safe haven for some survivors of the first big battle.

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    18. The cited April 6 Metro interview of Joe Dempsie contains a link to an interview the day before (April 5) in which he talked about what it was like to return to GoT.

      I found the following portion a bit puzzling. He said:

      ‘It meant that I really appreciated it,’ Dempsie said about returning. ‘I really appreciated my time with Kit [Harington], and with Alfie [Allen] and with Gwendoline [Christie] and with Jacob Anderson and Hannah Murray.’
      I know Gendry interacted with Jon Snow in S7. However, I don’t recall that he had any scenes with Theon, Brienne, Grey Worm, or Gilly. Is it possible he’s talking about S8? Or did I forget some scenes from S7?

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    19. Kevin1989,

      The only reason I’d want the show to devote time to a scene at the Eyrie is for someone to boot that little twit out the Moon Door.

      “Make the little man fly!”

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    20. Kevin1989:

      Offtopic: I was wondering this week. If we will get a small invasion in the Earie.remember in season 1 when they said nobody could impregnate it. I would like to see that in season 8. Somebody need to take it over. Cercei or wights. Or we need to see that it’s really impregnable by having it as a safe haven for some survivors of the first big battle.

      Just watch – the big wtf moment will come when Little Lord Arryn trips and knocks the Night King out of the Moon Door. 😂

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    21. Tensor the Mage, Who Knows That Predictions Can Be Difficult To Get Right, Especially If They Concern The Future says:

      By screen-time, we’re about 90% done with the story. There should be enough direction in the overall themes and characters’ arcs for us to hazard some good guesses. My two are (a) no more Iron Throne, and (b) no more magic. These would be the culminations of two overarcing ideas: feudalism on Westeros is dying, and magic is more trouble than it is worth.

      For (a), every patriarchal figure has been murdered: Ned’s father, Ned, Jon Arryn, Robert, Stannis, Lord Commander Mormont, Randyll Tarly, Roose Bolton, Tywin Lannister, Balon Greyjoy, the High Sparrow; even Oberyn Martell, that least patriarchal of fathers. That most brutal parody of patriarchs, Craster, got it in the safest place he ever knew. At least two were straight-up patricides.

      For (b), even the magical Children of the Forest died out not from the First Men they feared, but from the weapon they themselves used their magic to create. Dany may yet see one of her own magical “children” turned against her, again by magic.

      Whomever survives the Army of the Dead and Queen Cersei might just decide to flee Westeros completely, or otherwise be in a rush to say a Farewell to Kings.

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    22. kevin1989,

      Many people said season 7 episodes would be longer because there’s less of them but that wasn’t the case except for the very last one. I don’t think 8 will be any different. Average an hour with the very last going over that by maybe as much as min.20

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    23. Kevin1989,

      Well GRRM framed Ned Stark as the star of the entire series and he got mowed down before the first season & book ended. Never underestimate the ruthlessness of Weiss and Benioff or GRRM. Jon and Dany are both not exactly safe. Especially since Jon will be in the heat of battle.

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    24. Kevin1989,

      “I liked that ending [of the Sopranos] from the first time I saw it. For me it is what the show is about. Life. And in life there isn’t a perfect ending. It just ends.”
      ————————-
      So… if S8e6 of GoT ends with Jon, Dany, Sansa, and Arya sitting around a table at the Crossroads Inn; Arya takes a bite of cake and declares, “mmm…really good!”; and then Hot Pie comes over, pulls up a chair uninvited, and starts rambling: “Thanks! I do my best; the secret is….”
      – Fade to Black – The End

      … I could live with that.

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    25. I’m not looking at it that the finale only has six episodes but that it has eleven some of which are super sized. I am basing seasons 7 and 8 on A Dream of Spring planned content, I’m sure it will be quite loose as the show runners only have an outline for that book but the endings should be in the same place.

      As for Gendry I’ve thought from the start he will be one to survive and if he ends up ruling in Storms end after being legitimised I would not be at all surprised. A love match up with Arya also remains a possibility but I am less convinced of that outcome.

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    26. orange: Of course the ending may be what most people think and this is the attempt to get people off the trail. GRRM has already stated some people guessed the ending. And if everyone is telling the truth and D&D are doing the same ending George told them, than it shouldn’t be all that big a WTF type thing. So who knows.

      The showrunners also said there were three major twists from George which surprised them one was Shireen, another was Hodor and the last was the ending. We know there were other twists like Jon being brought back, Stannis dying, Jon being King in the North that obviously came from George so make of that what you will.

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    27. Why do I feel like he just spoiled the ending?

      By popular theory he probably means Jon and Dany living happily ever after as king and queen (even though not many people think this will happen in reality).

      So I feel like he just confirmed that at least one of them will die (probably Dany).

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    28. I think he’s talking about Gendry being legitimized and ruling the Stormlands with Arya, this theory is way more popular than him being on the iron thronre. (Gendry lost his war hammer beyond the wall so I take that as a subtle hint that he won’t become a Baratheon)

      But personally I don’t see anyone sitting on the iron throne after the war, their whole political system is going to change.

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    29. Undead Elephant,

      Dempsie also says its an ending that people would “really, really enjoy” upon reflection. Would people really “enjoy” an ending in which Dany, or any of the most popular characters, dies? Even after they’ve reflected on it? People may find it satisfying, or fitting, I suppose, but to “really, really enjoy” that kind of ending seems a rather strange choice of words.

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    30. Ten Bears,

      I saw that on another website and no he didn’t, sounds interesting. Also, and there may be complaints, but I don’t understand this obsession with marrying Gendry to Arya. Arya said herself ‘that’s not me ‘ and when she says to Gendry ‘I can be your family’ I saw that as her desperately missing her own family and saw Gendry as a brother a la Jon. Ok winge over😤

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    31. I’m far from a Dany fan but I agree, I can’t see many people loving her death or Jon unless there is a solid rationale behind it i.e. it brings peace to the realm.

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    32. Jon Snowed,

      I am not a big Dany fan either but I would not like to see her go. I am a ‘disney end’ fan where everyone gets to live happily ever after with Jon teaching his children to fight and telling him/her to ‘keep your shield up or I’ll ring your head like a bell’. But I am prepared to be heartbroken this time next year. As for Jon I think there is a reason he was named Aegon. Aegon the Conqueror built the Iron Throne and Aegon the Gorgeous will destroy it👑

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    33. Edward,
      There are fewer episodes. I can do a rewatch of certain character interactions in one night if I skip the long battles and dragon pit scenes. It goes by fast. Before I know it, there are only 2 episodes left, E6 and E7. It’s horrible.

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    34. I wonder if the ending he’s talking about involves Jon and/or Dany getting the Throne, only to be betrayed and usurped. They save the world only for the Game of Thrones to continue indefinitely.

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    35. Jon Snowed: The showrunners also said there were three major twists from George which surprised them one was Shireen, another was Hodor and the last was the ending.We know there were other twists like Jon being brought back, Stannis dying, Jon being King in the North that obviously came from George so make of that what you will.

      To be clear, they said that the third big twist would happen in the final season. Not that it would necessarily be the ending itself. A number of GoT YouTubers are speculating that this twist involves the Night King in some way; his identity, purpose, history.. This seems like a good possibility to me as well.

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    36. I try not to speculate too much because if it doesn’t go that way, I’d be slightly annoyed (at being wrong). I try to keep an open mind, anything’s possible…

      No matter how this saga ends, there will be hardcore fans who will be displeased. Dany fans will be displeased if she doesn’t win and sit the Iron Throne, petting her dragons. Jon fans will be disappointed if he isn’t the one true hero. Arya fans will rage of she isn’t a super ninja warrior princess with a crucial role to play. Sansa fans will hate it if she doesn’t end up a queen or at least an important player. And so on.

      I know my favourite character won’t have my dream ending (Jaime and Brienne marrying and retiring to Tarth, training war orphans to be knights and men-at-arms, instilling in them a sense of honour but also the problematic nature of vows and oaths, also, having a few awesome kids. I know, haha, never gonna happen, Jaime is doomed.) so, for me, it’s kind of peaceful to await the end.

      I’ve reconciled myself to other favourites like Jon, Dany, Davos, Sandor etc. maybe/probably dying. Bran, Arya dying, can live with it, though will be saaaaad. Basically, I’ve mentally prepared for anybody to die. I expect the S8 death-toll to be massive.

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    37. Ten Bears,

      IMO, all the abovementioned actors filmed in Spain for S7 and, although not all of them shared scenes, they shared their free time. That’s what Joe Dempsie may be talking about.

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    38. Are you sure about that? I specifically remember them stating the third was the ending, of course I stand to be corrected.

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    39. Ten Bears,

      For me that tidbit is the greatest, and most important news. And the way it comes off in the interview it sounds as if he’s referring to something very recent as in not about season 7 but about season 8. And it matches with the actors being spotted in NI too.

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    40. Tensor the Mage, Who Knows That Predictions Can Be Difficult To Get Right, Especially If They Concern The Future,

      For (a), every patriarchal figure has been murdered: Ned’s father, Ned, Jon Arryn, Robert, Stannis, Lord Commander Mormont, Randyll Tarly, Roose Bolton, Tywin Lannister, Balon Greyjoy, the High Sparrow; even Oberyn Martell, that least patriarchal of fathers. That most brutal parody of patriarchs, Craster, got it in the safest place he ever knew. At least two were straight-up patricides.

      The few matriarchal figures also are gone: Catelyn, Lysa, Selyse, the Queen of Thorns. Only Lady Tarly, Cersei, Jaime and Tyrion are left of the middle generation, but they have no children. It’s almost as if the elders’ corruption and lies need to be cleansed. The younger generation shall inherit the land, which makes sense: GRRM said from the off that this was “almost a generational saga”

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    41. talvikorppi,

      “Arya fans will rage if she isn’t a super ninja warrior princess with a crucial role to play.”
      ———————
      Yes. Yes they will. And I am one of them. 🙂

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    42. Stark Raven’ Rad,

      Even pseudo-surrogate maternal figure Lady Crane didn’t make it out of S6 alive. (I really liked Essie Davis in that role. With no offense intended to Michelle Fairley, I thought Essie Davis could’ve been a dynamite Catelyn Stark.)

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    43. Ten Bears:
      Kevin1989,

      The only reason I’d want the show to devote time to a scene at the Eyrie is for someone to boot that little twit out the Moon Door.

      “Make the little man fly!”

      Sansa: Please, can I push that annoying kid out of the Moon Door Jon

      I think even Jon can’t resist saying yes to that.

      Ten Bears:
      Kevin1989,

      “I liked that ending [of the Sopranos] from the first time I saw it. For me it is what the show is about. Life. And in life there isn’t a perfect ending. It just ends.”
      ————————-So… if S8e6 of GoT ends with Jon, Dany, Sansa, and Arya sitting around a table at the Crossroads Inn; Arya takes a bite of cake and declares, “mmm…really good!”; and then Hot Pie comes over, pulls up a chair uninvited, and starts rambling: “Thanks! I do my best; the secret is….” – Fade to Black – The End

      … I could live with that.

      For me GoT is a different kind of show. Where sopranos was at the core: What is life? and it got an ending like that, real life never have a real ending. GoT on the other hand is more about: the coming and going of monarchs (and of course some magical things happening). We need some closure at the end (even sopranos ended with closure only the end scene was abrupt). Would I mind if there were things left open, no. but it depends on what. And second, sopranos already did it and we don’t want GoT to be the family and sopranos to be the simpsons.

      Lunaselene:
      Undead Elephant,

      Dempsie also says its an ending that people would “really, really enjoy” upon reflection. Would people really “enjoy” an ending in which Dany, or any of the most popular characters, dies? Even after they’ve reflected on it? People may find it satisfying, or fitting, I suppose, but to “really, really enjoy” that kind of ending seems a rather strange choice of words.

      Yes, depends how they bring it. If it means it would have broken the wheel, yes. Don’t get me wrong, I understand that she and Jon both have good motives, but what is the point of breaking the wheel if you just gonna make another wheel with yourself as the leader. She’s just more of the same, only a little bit better. So it all depends on how they bring it.

      strange that I just think about a scene from the books, where Bran sees a scene that we don’t know if its the future or the past. It was about a silver haired woman with a blade (the one the dothraki wear), killing a man who is bound to a weirwood tree. We don’t know who the woman and men are, what if it’s Dany? And the man Jorah.

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    44. What if in the end Jon does indeed die, and Arya will be the king wearing his face. She does something she hates because she needs to.

      I have other theories, one is that there always needs to be a night king. So somebody needs to take his place.

      And I’m wondering if the origins of the night king will be revealed. What if he’s a stark.

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    45. Grail King: Well seeing that GRRM admitted that a number of fans already figured the ending,

      He acknowledged that people had figured out some key things. Jon being Lyanna’s son probably is chief among those.

      However, well-told stories always are well-setup in advance. We know what the basic story is, and we’ve known for years. That does not specify the climax: but it certainly eliminates numerous ideas. The same thing was true of Harry Potter: we could not say exactly what the climax would be, but if you did not think that involved some heroic act of self-sacrifice by Harry at the end, then you were ignoring what Rowling wrote. Here, we know that it’s all about damned if you do, damned if you do not: and that you, yourself, will be doing the damning. That does not specify the ending, but it certainly precludes a lot of possibilities!

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    46. Kevin1989: And I’m wondering if the origins of the night king will be revealed. What if he’s a stark.

      It is not his origin, but his motivation that is important. We got the big setup for that last year: Bran now knows what so many fans have long suspected, i.e., that Robert’s Rebellion was fought on false pretenses. (It is not quite the same as a “lie” but we can forgive Bran the hyperbole given the emotional impact of the revelation.)

      But, again: I am a big proponent of the idea that Robert’s Rebellion is the “play within a play” that foreshadows key parts of the actual play.

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    47. Wimsey: It is not his origin, but his motivation that is important.We got the big setup for that last year: Bran now knows what so many fans have long suspected, i.e., that Robert’s Rebellion was fought on false pretenses.(It is not quite the same as a “lie” but we can forgive Bran the hyperbole given the emotional impact of the revelation.)

      But, again: I am a big proponent of the idea that Robert’s Rebellion is the “play within a play” that foreshadows key parts of the actual play.

      Wasn’t his motive already given by the children, their motive is simple. They’re created to kill every single person and that’s what they’re going to do. I don’t think there’s more to they’re motives than that or we missed something.

      In the books the white walkers are some sort of ancient race (explained in a world of ice and fire), the show simplified this, the children of the forest created the white walkers as some sort of weapon (like a nuclear weapon) that the children of the forest couldn’t control anymore. They are programmed to kill everybody. I don’t think this is the case in the books, but the show they chose this route.

      Even grrm stated that the white walkers from the books have another origins than the show, and that the books doesn’t have a night king. The show changed a lot about the white walkers. So why not their motives too. So for me I think the show white walkers are just killing machines with one purpose: the destruction of men.

      But still maybe I’m wrong. And that that’s what Jon meant with: you don’t understand. I read somewhere a nice theorie that maybe the show will end with 2 sides: one ice (with Jon on their side who says that the lord of light brought him back) and one fire (with Dany).

      My theorie is that bran is the lord of Light.

      And maybe every thing is happen inside a giant named Macumber.

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    48. I started to think about it, the place where the night king is made. Was that north of the wall? I always thought is was where the cave was (3er), but maybe I was wrong. Is it possible that he’s going there?

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    49. Tensor the Mage, Who Knows That Predictions Can Be Difficult To Get Right, Especially If They Concern The Future,

      Really agree with your post

      My two are (a) no more Iron Throne, and (b) no more magic. These would be the culminations of two overarcing ideas: feudalism on Westeros is dying, and magic is more trouble than it is worth.

      Yes, the more I think about it, I think this makes sense. So no Iron Throne – so does everything just go back to being based on villages or regions. I don’t remember the name of the play, but its about the aftermath of the Flood. It ends with Noah and his wife together, and she said something about lighting a spark. Dang someone helpme with this – its really the perfect little quote about bringing love and life back to the world.

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    50. Alright its not letting me edit – anyway the play is JB, by Archibald Macleish, a take on the story of Job At the end, where everything they know and love is gone, his wife says to him

      Blow on the coal of the heart.
      The candles in churches are out.
      The lights have gone out in the sky.
      Blow on the coal of the heart
      And we’ll see by and by. . . .

      a bit of hope. by and by

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    51. Kevin1989,

      Even grrm stated that the white walkers from the books have another origins than the show…”
      —————-
      Where and when did GRRM say this? Because I thought the CotF creating the WWs was one of the “big” reveals resulting from the show overtaking the (yet-to-be published) books.

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    52. Wimsey,

      But, again: I am a big proponent of the idea that Robert’s Rebellion is the “play within a play” that foreshadows key parts of the actual play.”
      ———————-
      So am I.
      I also think the Braavos play was a play within a play (within a play?) foreshadowing the conclusion, along with the story of Ned Stark beating Arthur Dayne in single combat, and on a lighter note, the “legend” of brave Thoros of Myr, the first through the breach of the Siege of Pyke with his flaming sword – when in reality, he was so sh*tfaced drunk he was in an alcoholic blackout and didn’t even remember what happened.

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    53. Ten Bears:
      Kevin1989,

      Even grrm stated that the white walkers from the books have another origins than the show…”
      —————-Where and when did GRRM say this? Because I thought the CotF creating the WWs was one of the “big” reveals resulting from the show overtaking the (yet-to-be published) books.

      In the book a world of ice and fire. It stated there they existed before humans came to westerns. I sometimes read grrm blog and I remember (maybe I remember it wrong it could be the case) that he told in the comments that his origins was different. Also the origins of whyhodor became hodor is different in the book. There will be no cave invasion.

      There are only 3 things grrm told them. Shireen death hodor and something from the end. Grrm didn’t share the origins of the ww. But I will look into it if I can find grrm quote or interview. (I will look at it tomorrow)

      I read an interesting theorie that the white walkers aren’t the true enemy of the show and books but that the only goal of the ww is the destruction of the cotf which reside in the Gods eye. And that they are the real goal of the ww. That that’s the reason why the white walkers choose deliberately who to kill and who not. That they wanted Mance to destroy the wall and that’s the reason why they didn’t attack Mances camp is season 2/3 but the the night watch camp. The more I read the more I hope they will go this route.

      Something else came to my mind. The story were told is: there are 2 gods. On good which is a fire lord. And one bad the great other. Which the ww worship. 2 things we can’t deny: the power of both is real so in some form they exist. And second we know at least in the show (maybe in the books) the cotf made the ww so the God part there isn’t really true. What if R’hllor is real but not a God but a greenseer, who resides in the gods eye. Using his power to manipulate people into following him(Melissandre for instance) but that he in fact doesn’t care about the human race, but that he’s using them for his own gain. Because the ww are coming for him and he fear his own life.
      What if the nk only want to defeat r’hllor and wights are his only way of making an army and he takes what he needs but not more.

      I think the books will take a route something like this. Where even the ww aren’t pure evil. I hope that the show does too. (but I’m afraid the show will simplify it by just having an evil force that need to be defeated)

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    54. I am with Ten Bears I feel Kevin has some of his facts mixed up, even Linda confirmed that this was something coming from George.

      Also in the books the Nights King is talked about he is just not seen yet.

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    55. I feel you are confusing a few things here and not accurate with your initial assertion. My understanding is as follows:
      – A World of Ice and Fire is a fan written book (by Linda and Elio) and whilst they are dedicated super fans we cannot take this as absolute fact especially as it was written before S6/Winds of Winter.
      – There were not only three things George told the Show runners, he told them the arcs of all major characters and the ending. The difference was how some of the characters get there may differ. Some of the minor characters fates will be different as GRRM had not planned them, case in point the Hound where George told them he would return but hadn’t decided what he will do.
      – There is a Nights King also in the books he’s just not seen yet, I’m sure he will be different because the show needs a visual focal point more than the books do.
      – The infamous Linda confirmed in her episode review that the history of the White Walkers creation as depicted in the show very likely comes from George.
      – The Hodor reveal came from George it will just happen slightly differently, I suspect in the show the Whites attack the cave in the books maybe he holds a door elsewhere for Bran to escape, but I am sure we will find out in Winds.

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    56. ash,

      “Alright its not letting me edit – anyway the play is JB, by Archibald Macleish, a take on the story of Job At the end, where everything they know and love is gone, his wife says to him

      Blow on the coal of the heart.
      The candles in churches are out.
      The lights have gone out in the sky.
      Blow on the coal of the heart
      And we’ll see by and by. . . .

      a bit of hope. by and by”
      ————————–

      This is beautiful. Thanks for sharing it.

        Quote  Reply

    57. Jon Snowed,

      – GRRM even confirmed that he worked with them, so not completely fanfiction. the only argument you can say is the following that it’s written like a true history book, even in our history books not all is true, somethings are different. Sam with World of Ice and fire, maybe some events are different from what happen.
      – I read GRRM blog alot and read his comments there. I read multiple comments from him that his background for the white walkers is a bit different, that he doesn’t have a night king. His story has the great other (Which is probably not a white walker himself), in the books we even got a female white walker (story of the Night’s King). I think the story from the books is a lot different. I believe the theorie that in the books the white walkers are a sub-spicies from the children of the forest. (talk about it later need to find more information about it but I remember that even in the books it’s told by multiple characters that the White Walkers only appear after the pact between the first man and the CotF). I also think the NK was intvented so the show could have their enemy in one person, like in LotR we got Sauron, in Harry Potter we got Voldemort. But we can assume that in the books maybe there’s not one true leader, but more together.
      – About Hodor, I think in the books it has more to do with the Lyanna story where he got his name from. George said multiple times in interviews he only said that Hodor is short for Hold the Door but not what it meant. He also didn’t like the door episode because of the time travel thing (I read his blog very often and read his comments)

      I always liked the theorie that a group of CotF fled north and met the great other (if this really is an identity or maybe something else I don’t know, maybe just an object or something), who gave them the power of Ice. The are strong enough to defeat the human race but they are cursed, CotF love nature, but nature can’t grow in extreme cold. And it explains why the White Walkers came after the truce, because they didn’t know about it.

      According to George R. R. Martin, the Others “are strange, beautiful… think, oh… the Sidhe made of ice, something like that… a different sort of life… inhuman, elegant, dangerous. ( http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Others#History )

      I read into Sidhe and their folklore, and made me think, I found other theories about it. I hope the books take that route, it’s more interesting for a book.

      But still I need to remember were talking here about the show not the books. The end is the same the route is different. Where GRRM can afford to have a very mythical explanation, it can be too much for a show.

      I know i read to much into it, but I’m very interested in the white walkers.

      Edit: this theory I found interesting: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/game-thrones-night-king-theories-could-devastating-ending-store/

        Quote  Reply

    58. Yeah I don’t think we are a million miles apart. I know GRRM gave some input into a World of Ice and Fire however I’m just saying that we shouldn’t take this as gospel given that it was written by fans and before S6/Winds so it’s likely they were not made aware of twists which were to come particularly the origin of the White Walkers.

      As for Hodor, I know GRRM said it will happen differently but I don’t recall any criticism of him of the scene or the time travel, in fact I’d be amazed if the time/warging is not similar only the scene will be slightly different.

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    59. Carole H,

      Gendry doesn’t deserve her; I don’t get the obsession either; and if the showrunners were going to set up an Arya – Gendry coupling, there were plenty of opportunities in S7e5 and e6.

      In the vernacular, and to mix metaphors: That ship has already sailed, and Gendry missed the boat.

        Quote  Reply

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