Episode 305 – No Son of Mine
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Jaime and Tyrion meet, after all this time. Samwell, Varys, and many more begin to reach their ends as we near the finale of A Storm of Swords.
Discussion Topics
Life changing decisions
Jaime’s rescue
Into darkness
Murder in the tower
Stannis lovefest, office hours
Aemon surveys Stannis
Sam’s blazes a trail
Owns of the Chapters
We’ve finally made it here. Two chapters, one epilogue, and TWO EPISODES remain in STORM
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Hodor!
To this day, I am conflicted about the show’s omission of Tysha.
On the one hand, I understand the reasons. It is a call back to a scene in season 1 most are not going to remember. Tyrion’s relationship with Shae is something that was built for four whole seasons, and it makes sense the show wanted it to revolve around her because its something the audience was invested in. The actors portrayed the scene masterfully.
But… The Tysha reveal is just one of the biggest, and most amazing ASOIAF moments, and the power it had over Tyrion and the way it shaped his character really takes it to another emotional level.
But a book will always be able to hit far deeper levels of depth purely because its a far less limiting medium.
That actually is not true. Books and cinema have different limitations, but basically every limitation of books/cinema over cinema/books has some complimentary strength over the cinema/books. Moreover, it works differently for different people: a lot of people do not find books able to hit the emotional depths of cinema because performance is “real” and captures nuances and subtleties that words alone never can do. The old expression “a picture paints 1000 words” is very true.
But as for Tysha, it simply was not possible. In cinema, characters are the faces of the actors playing them, not the names. I’ve posted this before, but this “Honest Trailer” (this is a great series, by the way) hits the nail on the head when it makes fun of the fact that there are about 10 characters who’s names you actually know, and gazillions others. (This starts at the 3:33 mark.) Upshot? Unless Tysha had been shown and named almost immediately before, her name would have meant nothing.
Of course, there is one other mistake that some fans of almost all adapted books make. That is the assumption that because the exact aspects of a scene with emotional “oomph” are adapted to fit the cinematic medium, the “oomph” is completely gone. That scene had tons of oomph for the non-readers as well as for the many readers who did not remember exactly what happened. (That would be the vast majority: hardcore fans even for Thrones, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, etc., are a small fraction of readers, never mind viewers.) After all, everyone has had difficulties with parents and everyone has unresolved issues with parents. Here is a son who’s father went so far as to frame him for ulterior motives: and that someone basically executes the father who never wanted the son to even live. That’s “oomph”: no ex-girlfriends were required!
It all depends on the person ,some people haven’t got the same imagination as most, some people cannot interpret scenes and cannot visualize from words, alot of people need a face, need background music, need to be captivated by the screen. I do agree that a book can reach deeper and has less limitations but only to the right people
Irishton,
Exactly. That is exactly how I am. I’ve read many good books, many amazing stories, but they all seam kinda…plain.
I’ve never really talked with any of my friends/familly of great book monents, even if we both read the book, it’s mostly just ”yeah that was good” but here I am still talking with them of HH.
Same goes with characters. Oberyn is the perfect example for me. In the books my reaction too him was, ”cool guy” but in the show he became one of my favourite characters.
It was just something I can never get from a book, no matter how much I like it.
Pedro and his smile, his voice, the look in his eyes when he attacks Gregor, his voice turning from a jocking tone to full blown anger when he comfronts Tywin at the wedding,..etc.
Dillane’s acting in the last episode, when he realizes that he lost, the realization that Shireen’s sacrifice was in vain, his face when he remenbers what he did too Renly, all without saying a single word, it was just amazing. One of the highlights of the season for me, perhaps even in the show.
Not even going to disscuss Lena’s walk of shame. She should have recived that Emmy.
Pierce playing the HS, who in the books looked to me like a stupid fanatic. He made me actoully be scared of the HS.
Like Wimsey said, for some people ”a picture is worth a thousand words” and that applies perfecly too me.
Wimsey,
I usually enjoy your posts and this one made me think about my own relationship with books and films. As a child I saw many BBC series, which led me to reading the classical English novels which had been their source. Although I love almost all of these series, I prefer the books. But I have never complained about the adaptation, I somehow trained myself to see them as two different things. As an adult and essay writer I like to approach books and films as compared media and discover any difference as a starting point for reflection.
I first watched the first season of GOT – the first episode fascinated me, so I binge-watched and then ordered the books in original (English is not my first language, as you probably have noticed). So my discovery of AGOT was through the series and while reading I saw the faces of the actors, at the same time enjoying the psychological analysis. Then I read the other volumes and every year I wait for HBO to give ”the visual”, I mean the series.
Now I’m more annoyed by the delayed TWOW than of the months till season 6. And I’m binge-watching again seasons 1-5. I must say that I find the script brilliant – it’s been awhile since I read the books and I admire how D&D managed to convey so much information in a few hours and how the actors and scenery are fit to embody what GRRM wrote.
I mean no disrespect to GRRM, bu it’s the first time I consider the film version superior to the books. It’s the same with those wonderful Shakespeare adapted films, which chop off scenes and characters and show the core of the plays.
Mihnea,
I love to watch the films and then read the books and viceversa, as it may happen. I mean I see books and films as different media and their differences a starting point for reflection. I had preferred the books even in the case of Gone with the Wind before I watched GOT. It’s the first time I consider the series better because it presents what’s important in the books and is a real guide to the Unsullied, helping them to keep in mind what’s important.
I couldn’t agree more to what you wrote about Oberyn. The book character is fine, but I simply adored Pedro Pascal’s rendering of the character. And I must add I can’t imagine a better Tyrion than Peter Dinklage (and not because he is a little person), a better Tywin than Charles Dance, a better Jaime than Nikolaj, a better Jaqen than Tom Wlaschiha, a better Brienne than Gwendoline, a better Bronn than Jerome Flynn, a betterHound than Rory McCann, a better Cersei than Lena – I hate the character, but I love Lena even when she plays Cersei. HBO found great actors even for the small parts – remember how all of us loved Lollys and how we adored and mourned for Karsi, as if we had known her for several years. So, yeah! I love the books, but I prefer the series.
Wimsey,
I don’t agree at all about the characters. There’s a bunch of tropes which deal with absent characters from movies or series, especially if they’re part of the backstory. If they had recounted the story which Tyrion tells Shae in season 1 in the previous episode, to the Red Viper for instance, which would have been easy, it would have been a nice callback. Why then talk about Tysha at all in season 1? Why talk about the Mad King? Why talk about Rhaegar? Why maintain that the Red Viper wanted to avenge his sister Elia, whom we have never met? Did this have less of an emotional impact this way? Why talk about Joanna Lannister (not by name, but OK) as a motivator for both Cersei’s and Tywin’s hatred for Tyrion?
By the way, one small comment, I think Mycah was a bit too quiet in this episode. Loved it, though, especially the discussion of how badass Stannis was by taking the Nightfort as his seat.
Wimsey,
Of course the scene had “oomph”
It was still an amazing scene, and probably the best it could’ve been.
Im just saying, the way Martin wove the story of Tysha was just genius and I do miss it even though I know it cannot have the same impact to show viewers without Tyrion’s internal monologue or a flashback sequence.
Wimsey,
I do agree that sometimes the cinematic medium can reach higher levels of depth.
Example: Lena Headey who makes the character of Cersei Lannister so much richer while still maintaining the important trademarks of the character from the novel.
Book Tyrion is a much darker and more f’ed up character, especially in regards to women, than Show Tyrion. The omission of Tysha after season 1 and the far-healthier relationship with Show Shae are in line with that.
Honestly skipping Tyrion’s kidnapping of (and disturbing threats regarding) Tommen is a much bigger change IMO than skipping the Tysha reveal.