The Winds of Winter may still not have a release date but there’s a new George R.R. Martin project we can mark on our calendars nonetheless. At long last, we are getting a graphic novel of The Mystery Knight!
The cover art:
Martin announced yesterday on his Not A Blog that the “long awaited … and much requested” graphic novel of his third Dunk and Egg novella, in which his titular protagonists find themselves caught in a conspiracy at a wedding tourney, will hit stores on July 4th, 2017.
The graphic novel adaptation will be 148 pages in length and released in hardcover. Ben Avery and Mike S. Miller, who worked on the graphic novels of The Hedge Knight and the Sworn Sword, are returning as script writer and illustrator, respectively. Their work already has Martin’s seal of approval. “From what I’ve seen so far, it’s gorgeous!” he wrote.
had an e-mail saying ‘George R R Martin announces….’ and i got my hopes up for a hot minute 🙁
Mormont,
I think the only way he’ll ever get his lazy ass back to writing The Winds of Winter is everyone stops buying all of his other shit.
Mormont,
Winds of Winter isn’t coming out until 2018 at the very earliest. I’ve long since accepted that. A Dream of Spring will never be completed. This TV show is the only way we’ll ever see the ending of this story.
Ah, good news, Petra.
Hey, Walder Frey is in this one.
Cool.
Josh L,
Yep, you got it. He’s set up so many twists, turns and complications that he can’t deliver it in a way we (and he) will find satisfying. (And that’s without any new ones he’ll inevitably want to add.) Even if 10% of the theorising is true, the level of complication is so high it must send his head into a spin just thinking it through. I actually pity him. I suggest he serialises it – maybe release a chapter or two a month, which would have the dual benefits of giving us something to enjoy and giving him time. He probably has 50 chapters done and dusted. The fandom was kept busy for weeks with The Foresaken chapter.
Nice one 😀 😀 😀
Josh L,
IMO, now that the show has passed him up, he is just going to work on finishing the show and then he will release the books after the show is completed. He wants to keep the lines from being blurred. The first 5 came out before the show “phenomenon” that was much bigger than he expected. The last 2 will be after that all dies down. Plus, he is enjoying the ride. He will never be mainstream famous like this again.
I think Winds Of Winter will be announced in George’s annual end of the year blog. To be coming out sometime next year. I still have hope!
Lmao!! So true.
I think Winds will come out autumn next year,
IMO, much like his regular series, the D&E stories start off great and sort of slowly go downhill in quality. MK in particular is sort of the “feast for crows” of D&E IMO. Still, the graphic novels are fun and usually well done. We’ll see, maybe I’ll get it. 🙂
Paul,
Serialisation might work – it worked for Charles Dickens in an earlier century (who had something in common with GRRM in that he had loads of minor characters). I think GRRM does need to streamline his storyline and subplots though (though I don’t decree how other people should think and I am aware some folk really like the “worldbuilding”).
I don’t think I’ve ever read a graphic novel. Of course I read comics when I was a kid and although I don’t particularly like the term “bad ass” I guess Minnie the Minx (UK – when Scots) was a feisty female character long before Arya Stark was thought of. Minnie liked fighting but she was more likely to trick Dad into doing her homework than kill anyone though.
Walder Frey at a wedding? What could possibly go wrong……
Well it’s his older sister’s wedding, but he’s a toddler at this point in time.
I’ll be getting this one for sure!
So, are we taking bets on when GRRM announces that he didn’t complete WoW in 2016?
And then how quickly we get posts reading “it will be done any day” between the lines? 😀
The publisher almost certainly would not agree to this. GRRM is contracted to deliver novels to them, after all.
The serialization of the 19th century was just the way the popular culture of the time worked. Most of the big works of that time came out in bits and pieces: it basically was the same as TV series now in that people wanted the next installment. People ever debated what would happen next, although it would have taken a very, very long time for “Lyanna is Jon’s mother!” to disseminate when word-of-mouth was literally word-of-mouth. And there was no other entertainment media competing with written storytelling then, too. So, I really doubt that it would work now, save among hardcore fans: and we don’t buy a big proportion of the books.
My life was fine before the books. it was entertaining while reading them. and i won’t have to redefine it, if ADWD happens to be the last ASOIAF book ever published.
How about guesses as to any new, never before seen, excuses?
Alternatively, we could have a pool where each participant guesses when TWoW will be published and the closest guess wins all the money in the pool.
No winnings for those who guess ‘never.’
The more consumers buy his non-TWoW products, the later, if ever, TSoIaF concludes.
Marlana,
I agree; if that stuff doesn’t sell well then all te more reason and pressure for George to hurry with the last ASoIaF books.
Oooh! Now, that is a challenge! I’m taking “Trump-Depression” as a general category! 😉
Well, we all will be dead before then…. 😀
3/28/17.
A little off-topic about the date format.I’m not joking or anything,I’m just curious to hear from some of you guys in the US.Why do you use the month/day/year format instead of a day/month/year one or a year/month/day one or whatever?I mean,is there a reason in your everyday life for which you use such a sequence?Or it’s just how it always was and everyone is used to it?Sure,I can just google the explanation(and I will right now)but I’m still curious to hear it from someone who lives in the US.How do you see it?
As for Winds of Winter 2018 could be possible.But after AFFC and ADWD I see two more novels as nowhere near enough to finish the series.If Winds comes out we’ll see but I’m not optimistic about the books having an ending.
You’re just going to get the reversed question back to you.
I admit I don’t know why, but it certainly makes just as much sense as doing it the other way, if not more. When someone asks you verbally what the date is, what is an easier reply, “July 23rd” or “the 23rd of July.” Converting the quickest, easiest response to text is 7/23. Also, if you relate it to other methods of writing out time I think it’s more consistent. You wouldn’t normally write 25:4 when it’s 4:25. That would be like saying that it’s the 25th minute of the 4th hour. YOU may often say, “it’s 25 minutes past 4 o’clock,” but I and most US citizens will just say “four twenty-five,” especially after digital clocks are a thing.
Truly though, neither way is right or wrong, just a matter of being used to one way or the other.
Queen Of All and nothing at all,
WoW isn’t coming out in a little over 3 month. If that were the case, the promotion for it would have already started.
Clob,
It’s just the American (US) convention. It’s not even about the English language because the UK uses 18.12.2016 (today’s date), as do all European countries afaik. (He he, maybe that’ll change with Brexit. They might even bring back pounds and ounces and pre-decimal currency to “make Britain great again”.)
ddmmyyyy is just more logical: from the smallest unit (day) to the largest (year). mmddyyyy (the US way) is illogical but it’s difficult to change such deep-seated customs. I’m not sure it’s necessary to change it, as long as the US doesn’t try to impose their way on other countries. (Many US-based netsites do, and it’s very irritating.)
Scotland recently got control of road signs as an important devolved power. Some Scots joke about putting all the distances in km rather than miles, just to confound the English and to declare an affinity with mainland Europe. Scotland voted 62% to remain in the EU.
Most of the world uses the metric system. A rich, powerful country like the US doesn’t have to, except all their scientists and engineers do. Their work is divorced from their everyday life with miles and pounds and fl. ounces. They have to master two measuring systems. Scientists, engineers, anybody, in most of the rest of the world only have to master one measuring system, the metric one.
If you want to make sense of US and UK weights and measures, you learn rough rules of thumb. Divide by three to make feet into metres, 2.54cm is an inch, 2.2 pounds to a kg. Miles/km conversion is an exercise in the multiplication (and division) table of 5 and 8. (Miles: divide by 5, multiply by 8 to get km; km, divide by 8, multiply by 5 to get miles.)
I wish all the countries in the world used the same measuring system and style of dates but I can’t impose my will on stubborn countries. The UK has been adopting the metric system inch by inch but all those efforts might get reversed with Brexit because some want to revert back to imperial measures. Ho hum.
I guess it’s just an American thing. Not sure how it’s done in other places. Funny how things are different.
Abyss,
Just curious but what’s the typical amount of time?
Clob,
Oh, and clock times. 00:40, or 00:40am, the time I’m writing (posting) this, is quite logical. Big unit (hours) before the small unit (minutes). The smallest unit (seconds) would come last.
I see no contradiction or illogicality in this. Fair enough day/month/year goes the other way (from small to big) but within a day it’s normal and sensible to measure time by the hour, then the minutes, then the seconds (from big to small), neh?
I, of course, come from a country where we use a 24hr clock. Midnight is 00.00, an hour later it’s 01.00. Mid-day is 12.00, and hour later it’s 13.00, all the way down to 23.59 before the next day. We don’t have to clarify “am” or “pm” because 05.15 is clearly very early morning and 17.15 is late afternoon. 5.15am and 5.15pm the English style, which makes it harder to grasp it in a fraction of a second for me – and I’ve lived in English-speaking countries for years.
In informal speech, we say, “let’s meet up at six” (18.00 or 6pm) but if someone says “or a quarter past?”, I write down 18.15. It’s so ingrained, our 24hr clock. I find the am/pm thing difficult, like you have to think it through. 7pm is 19.00, things like that.
Queen Of All and nothing at all,
That depends heavily on how popular the book series and/or writer is. Given that in the case of aSoIaF we have both a very poular book series and writer, someone would have let something slipt by now if the release is that close (GRRM on his blog, the corrector, a draft reader etc.). I’m also pretty sure that we would have had official promotion from Bantam Books aka Random House (GRRM main publisher in North America IIRC), but I couldn’t find their promotion catalogs for sellers to see how often they release them.
Marlana,
The winds of winter will come out in February of 2019
I was one of those people 3+ years ago who was saying GRRM probably would never finish the last book. And people like me were bashed for making such “insensitive” comments.
But the reality is that the comments weren’t insensitive. It was based on an honest look at his writing pace and a proper expectation of when the books would be released.
I think the story really got away from him in books 4 and 5 and he has no way of finishing it. He really should have just stuck to the key characters and added an additional two main characters tops.
The time between book releases is…. 2, 2, 5, 6, & 5+ (soon to be 6 at least).
At least the show is amazing. The people on the ASOIAF Forum must be going crazy…..
I meant “UK – well Scots”
::sigh:: So depressingly predictable: GRRM announces a new product (taking up only a minuscule amount of his time, because it’s already written and somebody else is illustrating it) and immediately the haters come out in droves to wallow gleefully in their scorn for the author. Ever grinding their axes to lop off the head of the goose who lays the golden eggs.
Honestly, why bother with these GRRM posts anymore? I know the site is supposed to be about both mediums, but you would never know it based on the comments that inevitably follow anything about GRRM. And god forbid anyone ever says they like something more in the books.
Firannion,
I agree that Martin’s involvement with this project will be minimal at best and won’t take up much of his time, but I also understand other people’s frustration with the constant Winds of Winter delay.
talvikorppi,
Well off topic, but interesting all the same. Regarding weights and measures in the USA.
Being English and born in 1947, I was brought up on yards, feet and inches, pints, quarts and gallons and had to learn at school the ‘times tables’ up to 12. Why? Because the money was in pounds, shillings and pence. There being 20 shillings to the pound and 12 pennies in a shilling.
When the UK went decimal in 1972, it made things a lot easier, certainly money wise. However, we all got ripped off because of it and the prices doubled over night! A cheese roll which I paid 6d (old pence) for on Friday cost 5p (new pence) on Monday and 5 new pence being the same as a shilling 🙁
Some things didn’t change though. The UK still measures long distances in miles and beer (in pubs) is still served in pints. However petrol (gasoline) changed over from gallons to litres (another rip off) !!
Not so long ago I asked a friend in Arizona (a retired mechanical engineer) why the US never went metric. He said simply it was too expensive to change all the tooling over, the dials on machine tools, etc, throughout industry… A reasonable answer.
The only beef I have with US measurements is for temperature! You yanks still use the Fahrenheit scale which the UK dropped years ago. I remember British meteorological measurements were once in degrees F, but for scientific measurements, they have always been in degrees Celsius (Centigrade). It makes sense? i.e. Water becomes ice at 0C and boils (turns to steam) at 100C. Its more logical than water freezes at 32F and boils at 212F 😉
It makes me cringe when I watch US documentaries on the Discovery Channel, etc and scientists and engineers still state temperatures in degrees Fahrenheit 🙂
Black Raven,
PS… Regarding BREXIT – I bloody hope not! I don’t want to return to pounds, shillings and pence or pounds (weight) and ounces! That vote to leave the EU was a complete disaster!
However, to vote in Trump as the next US president I somehow think was not a wise decision either 😀
Smells like money.
He’s laying eggs for sure. Whether they are golden is up for debate.
George Martin is a master procrastinator and you can bet he took a lot more time than necessary on this to avoid writing TWOW.
The cover is worthy of a Chuck Tingle title.
Pounded in my Butt by a Wayward Bookwriter: The Fistening
Marlana,
Are you suggesting we all boycott his other books? That’s pretty lame. I’m not happy with the long wait for WoW either but the man has to make money while writing his major titles right? It’s also nice to see different material while we wait. Appreciate the small stuff while you can because some time in the undetermined future the production of GRRM material will stop forever.
talvikorppi,
I’m quite comfortable/familiar with using the 24 hour clock. I was in the army when younger and our military uses it. For that reason it’s common to be called “military time” in the US.
Abyss, Queen Of All and nothing at all,
I saw a of quote of GRRRRMs about WoW where he said it would usually take a publishing company 6 months from being handed a novel to it appearing on the shelves in shops, but his said they could get it down to 3 months if they pulled out all the stops. [insert your own comment about his writing speed here]
Cumsprite,
SPRITEEEEEEEY! Haven’t seen you for aaaaages. I was just admiring the 3D effect on the cover and now I will never be able to look at it the same way again. Don’t forget to straddle that line with discord and rhyme! 😀
Lulus Mum,
When it come to pure publishing that’s sound about right to me for a book series as popular as the aSoIaF. I think at their peak the Harry Potter books were around 3 month for publishing as well. So yes, it is possible to publish a book like WoW in around 3 month, but it would just be a flat-out dumb move not to create a hypemachine around it. You want GRRM on his blog or somewhere else to say that Kong 7 is final dead, to get the core fanbase, maybe let him read a couple more chapters at cons as well. – And then it its time for the regular fans with I don’t know what all when it comes to promotion…
Unpopular opinion: Dunk & Egg is the best thing to come out of Westeros and I’d take an entire D&E novel over TWoW any day.
I’m fairly sure that’s a very widespread opinion.
Btw let us all remember how long it is that the same tragic hopes are shared on this site:
June 16, 2015 at 1:19 pm
Johnny Law wrote:
Is it any less likely that GRRM would release the next book one month from now than one year from now?
Mescalinic wrote:
Yes, it is A LOT less likely ?
(actually is impossible due to editing process)
Crazy Optimistic release date: Spring 2016
Very Optimistic release date: Christmas 2016
Optimistic release date: 2017
Real release date: someday.
I HATE IT WHEN I’M RIGHT ç_ç
Abyss,
ADWD took about three months from GRRM handing in the final draft to its release, so that’d be how the publisher will handle it whenever it gets in. There’s so much discussion around this book’s release that it wouldn’t be very difficult to hype it up.
Sean C.,
I guess that’s is true. I still think there will be some form of promotion before the 3 month, even if it’s just GRRM saying that he is getting close to the final draft. As I said, doesn’t necessarily have to be promotion from the publisher. Hypemachine was a too strong word, because you’re right, hype is already pretty strong.
There will be no promotions. It is the sixth book in a series and is essentially the novelization of a very popular TV series. If the prior books and/or the show have not done that, then nothing will: it will either be preaching to the converted, or falling on deaf ears.
This is generally true. For example, sequel films in successful series get little promotion beyond “Coming to Theaters on DATE”; the prior films were the trailers and promotion that will sell the upcoming film, after all. Similarly, “old” TV series get much less promotion than new ones simply because the prior product is so much more informative than any advertisement or promotion could be.
Wimsey,
I specifically said “doesn’t necessarily have to be promotion from the publisher.” Even something as simple as a “coming soon” on Amazon is a promotion. As I said, calling it a hypemachine was the wrong wording, but of course there will be some promotion at some point.
A wide and deep depression that covers a yuge category of down in the dumps. I wish I had thought of that topic first.
This is why it is not exactly pessimistic to predict ASoIaF will never complete.
When US scientists are doing science, they use the metric system. Outside of the lab, they use the other system. They don’t convert back and forth between metric and US systems. No conversions, no confusion.
Wow. Far out.
If we could correlate your number series to a known number series, we could have a tool to predict publication of books 6, 7, 8…
Mayhaps we should all convert to degrees Kelvin, and base it off absolute zero.
Paul,
That’s not a bad idea. He could sell them and make a bloody- bloody fortune. And we would end up getting to finally read the Winds of Winter one f… Chapter at a time but before we go into the nursing home.
That’s not such a bad idea 😉
You would hope so, but even in the last few decades there have been some significant messes made by US conversion confusion. http://articles.latimes.com/1999/oct/01/news/mn-17288
I wonder if Lockheed still uses imperial measurements today.
Black Raven,
Well, if you Brits think that you can do the stupidest thing possible, we Yanks have to rise, er, descend to the occasion!
Now I have the sadz…..
Marlana,
Indeed, no journal would allow English measurements.
Durrandon's Fool,
Those were engineers, not scientists. That is like confusing chimps with humans!
Abyss,
“Coming soon” on Amazon is not promotion: that is Amazon informing its customers. The publishing company pays for the promotion. And they probably will spend very little promoting this book as the audience is largely predetermined: promotion would be a waste of money.
Wimsey,
Of course it is Who pays for it is irrelevant:
source
I had forgotten how stubborn you can be. I whish you Merry Christmas. 😉
Finally! I was wondering when this one would be finished.
Finish the book George and stop milking the cash cow!
Abyss,
There is obviously a large, eagerly-waiting-with-money-in-hand audience ready for the next book who will hype it up by word of mouth, doing a lot of the marketing department’s job for them.
I wonder how many sales will be lost by the show finishing the story first, which is almost inevitable at this point? It must have created lots of additional sales from people who weren’t aware of the story beforehand, but some potential readers will surely not bother buying further books which are already covered on tv, albeit in a probably very different way? Especially if they don’t like the ending. It’s a one of kind experiment going on here as far as I know and I don’t think anyone will ever know the answer for sure. But there is endless potential for polls [which I love so my IMHO answers in brackets]:
1. How many books will it take to finish the story?
[WoW, DoS plus 1 or 2 more]
2. What is the likelyhood of them being published?
[WoW 60%; DoS 20%; extra books 1 and 2 <5%]
3. When will they be published?
[WoW – there will be a big effort to get it out before S7, then before S8. If it doesn't beat either of them GRRM's interest in finishing it will diminish even further so the answer is "meh". DoS – if it was the last book I'd expect him to finish it quite quickly because he knows the ending already, but I can't believe it will be, so at current writing pace 5-8 years after WoW comes out. Any additional book which isn't the last one will take roughly the same time. Final book approx 2 years. So 3 books finished in 7 years' absolute minimum, probably nearly double that in reality. 4 books 12 years minimum, again probably nearly double that in reality.]
Which brings us nicely to the final two questions:
4. Will the show finish before the books?
[99.999999% yes]
5. Will the published series ever be finished?
[possibly, but very unlikely so I'd say no]
Just my thoughts, feel free to disagree as much as you like. Only time will tell. Full disclosure: I'm a very visual person, I'd far rather see a story than read it, so I'm quite happy to get the broad ending from the show and pick up any additional background from any new books. But I wouldn't read them, I'd just look for articles on main differences etc. I'm happy with a condensed version of the story, but I know lots of people are the opposite.
Lulus Mum,
I agree with your predictions/estimates 100%. I’ll just add my 2 cents: if WoW ever comes out, GRRM will go back to write a few more D&E and prolly forget about the final book.
Do you really think that many people will opt out of reading the rest of the books just because they already “know what happens”? I find that difficult to imagine. By that logic, any work of literature that has been around for centuries would be forgotten because everybody already knows the ending.
Yeah, you don’t have to tell me that GRRM ain’t Aeschylus or Shakespeare; but people still reread classic genre fiction by the likes of Lewis Carroll, Arthur Conan Doyle and Edgar Rice Burroughs over and over, with unabated pleasure, even knowing how it all comes out. I think that’s a fair enough comparison.
Nothing that D & D do could dampen my hunger for the rest of the books. Nothing that anyone, however talented, puts up on a screen can supplant the richness of the story that reading puts up inside my head. Am I typical? Maybe not. But I know I’m far from alone.
At this point I don’t see TWOW until 2018 at the earliest and 2019 probably won’t be far from the truth. He’s written himself into a corner by developing so many layers of plot instead of starting to tie things together in AFFC. I imagine that he’s got this feeling of overwhelm that is really killing him and so doing other things that his brain can handle is probably all he can do. Would that things would tie together sooner but they’re not… his editors are not helping him, they let this thing spiral out of control. It’s their fault, really, by not stepping to curtail the plots. I’m sure all they saw was dollar signs: Yay, another book!
It would be a fair comparison if George Martin matched those authors in readability. Which he doesn’t. If I hadn’t fallen down the internet rabbit hole with this ASOIAF bullshit, I wouldn’t read the next book, let alone pay for it. Plenty of people like that out there.
Firannion,
I was trying to imagine it from the publishers’ point of view and just thinking out loud about reader numbers and how the show finishing first might affect them. I have absolutely no idea what kind of proportions they might be, could be completely negligible? That’s why I used “some” it’s handily vague enough to be one person or thousands, covers me either way 😉 They may potentially lose readers by the show finishing first, but gained others from people who saw the show then buying the books, so swings and roundabouts really. And of course a few years after it finishes a whole new legion of fans will emerge who aren’t familiar with either format so it’s probably a short term blip, but a blip none the less if they want to sell as many copies as possible. Strike while the iron’s hot kind of thing.
Durrandon's Fool,
Yep, I remember that classic error between metric and US units which lost them that Mars orbiter in 1999.
It always amuses me when the expression: ‘”Well, its not rocket science!” is used when describing something which is easy to build or achieve. However, when it REALLY IS rocket science, that can be the time when things invariably do go pear shaped 😉
Re the comments about GRRM getting WoW out before S7 airs I would be very surprised. He’s milked the cash cow and probably quite content to let B&W finish off the TV version of the story. For all we know he may have well completed the first draft of WoT, but heard he’s forever re-editing parts of it. Surely one has to draw the line at some point, say enough is enough and send it off to the publishers to get it proof read and printed?
Abyss,
Facts are stubborn things! Promotion has a particular meaning in entertainment. That is because it has a budget: and the book publishers will not provide much budget for promotion of the Xth book in a series. What places like Amazon do is vety much besides the point.
Black Raven,
Well, what should be happening is an editor should be slashing apart the text, telling GRRM (or any author) that certain sections are not necessary, other sections need to be fleshed out, or that other parts need to be rewritten as they are opaque. Authors snd ecitors have pretty intense love-hate relationships: authors always are angered by the proposed edits (which is just human nature), but they usually admit in the end that the editting greatly improved the work.
However, GRRM does not seem to work with an editor, which is a shame: the quality of 4th and even 5th novels could have improved drastically with proper editting.
umuckurlife,
hahahahahaha
I started reading the Kingkiller Chronicle and I hear that the fans are having a similar issue regarding the third book of that series. I am on book 2 and I am enjoying it and soon ill be in the same boat as you all hahaha
Wimsey,
I just gave you facts, as in a definition of the term… If you want to talk facts, give a source as well, so I can see if you can prove the definition I gave wrong for entertainment…
Wimsey,
I just gave you facts, as in a definition of the term… If you want to talk facts, give a source as well, so I can see if you can prove the definition I gave wrong for entertainment.
There is no one and only way events and characters should proceed. An author chooses what will happen, and commits the actions to print.
What I don’t understand is the protracted process to create TSoIaF. The frustration of not knowing has produced numerous criticisms among readers.
Readers want to know how the author develops, climaxes and concludes TSoIaF. What specific choices the author makes to tell the story are within the author’s power. Readers are saying, “Do something so we will know the complete Song.”
This is bs! I dont need new pictures.. I need new material. Cmon George we are all counting on you. While you count your money. 🙁
Josh L,
regretably I have to agree with you GRRM will not finish the series.
I love this series, and can’t wait for the next book to come out. HOWEVER, I will not be buying any books from GRRM until WOW comes out. That’s all Boom.
Said with tongue in cheek 😉
I reckon the only way ASOIAF will ever be completed (sadly!) is for GRRM to allow his minions (i.e. the dynamic duo who run westeros.org) to finish it off for him 😀