Game of Thrones Season 8, Episode 4 “The Last of the Starks” Video Recap Roundup

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Crikey, that was a divisive one! Find out who shares your opinions on Game of Thrones The Last of the Starks with our handy Video Recap Roundup!

First up we have this excellent, long and excellently long Show Only Review courtesy of Westeros History (Book to Show Review is here)

HappyCool are back with WotW’s erstwhile chucker of axes, Axechucker!

Got Academy with their intriguingly titled review As Daenerys & Jon Implode, Queen Sansa Looming…

An hour of Thrones Talk from Collider

Smokescreen with their Reaction-Dracarys! review

A review/reaction from Rawrist

The Young Turks and their thoughts on Episode 4

If you’re after some more light-hearted takes, why not give Ozzy Man your time?

Or show Dem Thrones some love?

And of course the ever fabulous Gay of Thrones from Funny or Die, with Kumail Nanjiani.

Finally we got some reaction videos courtesy of the lovely chaps at Blind Wave

The Normies’ group reaction video (part two is here)

And of course the lovely folk at the Burlington Bar! (Parts Two and Three; and here‘s a 360º video of the final scene, in which you can choose who to look at.)

Have fun catching up on those, and I’ll be back with more next week.  Dracarys!

65 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. I love emergency awesome, he’s awesome (no pun intended)

      On a side note I can see Jamie arriving to Kings Landing and trying to reconcile with Cersei but when he finds out from Euron that she’s preggo with his seed he will either flip on Euron or Cersei to fulfill the valanquar prophecy

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    2. HappyCool, your black humour is such a blessing for melancholic nerds like me! I also want your T shirts. All of them ever.

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    3. Ozzy Man for the win as always. AGree with him. Why did everyone hate this episode? It was incredibly dramatically satisfying. I’m still thinking/brooding about what happened 5 days later.

      The only objectively stupid thing was the dragon dying because the physics don’t work. But this show has always cared more about political and character drama than “realism” in a science sense. Reminds me of the hair/eye color critiques from season 1.

      BB’s reaction to J/B was great. Jaime has zero game. But it doesn’t matter.

      dragonreborn:
      I can’t find the episode 4’s night’s cast podcast. Is it not out yet?

      I know! Maybe S/V are too heartbroken to talk about this ep. because of what’s going on w/ Dany.

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    4. For me
      I do not bother with any review that spends more time showing the reviewers face rather than episode clips.
      If the title page is a pic of the reviewer I don’t ever bother looking!

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    5. Well, it was a pretty good episode but a victim of considerable blowback from the hate for Ep 3, which I think was vastly overblown. The ‘fans’ have turned on it with such force that they’re threatening D&D, creating petitions, and deliberately and in a semi-organised way driving down popular, vote-able ratings. I’ve seen several say they thought it was a 4-6 episode but on IMDB they gave it a 1 on principle. Then they urge others to make as many IMDB IDs as possible to drive the rating down even more. Oh, and how they love monitoring and reporting its descent. The Internet is the perfect vehicle for mob mentality. You can sharpen your pitchfork and go do great damage from your desk and all anonymously.

      At least the reviewers were entertaining and/or analytical. I think GoT nerds like us have so much invested in hopes and theories that we cannot simply enjoy it anymore. I loathe GoT Academy’s schadenfreude, which is probably not going to happen anyway (IMO, she’s a decent politician but a terrible person who doesn’t give a shilling for anyone but herself. She’s Cersei minus the deliberate sadism and evil). I haven’t got time or patience for the long one, but thank you for sharing the others. There is still a little sanity left in the fandom. Online, most of it is here at WotW.

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    6. I watched the Burlington Bar one earlier in the week. I couldn’t stop noticing that the guy that looks like Tormund obviously sees Tormund as his favorite character. We all like our Tormund but that guy loooooves the dude. There’s nothing wrong with that, just making note. 🙂

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    7. 2 hours and 38 mins of Game of Thrones left!!!!

      I think it’s best to stop worrying about how long it takes to get around Westeros, the physics of Scorpions, and the odd minor plot hole and enjoy the final couple of hours.

      Is it really the last time we have seen Tormund do you think?

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    8. You know, some of the feedback on this season got me wondering – have other major series / movies received this much hate? Was there a loud contingent of people who hated Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2? The final season of Breaking Bad? Those are the only two recent examples that come to mind that had such an effect on popular culture.

      Is it that a lot of people hate the finality of something they have been following for so long? I’m just really trying to get a feel where a lot of it is coming from, because to me, a ton of it is undeserved.

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    9. Joseph Mobile,

      I think the last few Harry Potter movies had some backlash from fans IIRC but it seems to have been forgotten, hopefully that will happen here too.
      Though the criticisms this week have been much louder than usual. I don’t necessarily disagree with them but I don’t understand why people are letting it ruin their view of the whole series. I’m sure a lot of them are trolls but many are genuinely disappointed at how things are playing out and I feel bad for them more than anything. We’ve waited a long time to see how this story ends haha.
      Hopefully it will be a case of judging the season before it’s finished and people will change their minds after the last two eps.
      Are the video reviews generally positive then? I have exams next week so don’t have time to watch

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    10. Crannogman Matt,

      I thought so – my only frame of reference for the Harry Potter films is my wife, who is an absolute die-hard Harry Potter fan. Deathly Hallows Part 2 was actually her least favorite movie out of all 8, but she still adores the series overall. I agree, hopefully it is forgotten once the series ends, and we are able to view it in a fully objective light.

      I subscribe to History of Westeros, and their overall impression was positive on the episode. I know they recorded a “book to show” comparison episode last night, so it will be interesting to hear what they surmise the implications on the book series would be.

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    11. Joseph Mobile:
      You know, some of the feedback on this season got me wondering – have other major series / movies received this much hate?Was there a loud contingent of people who hated Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2?The final season of Breaking Bad?Those are the only two recent examples that come to mind that had such an effect on popular culture.

      Is it that a lot of people hate the finality of something they have been following for so long?I’m just really trying to get a feel where a lot of it is coming from, because to me, a ton of it is undeserved.

      The final season of Breaking Bad had some of the best writing in TV history. People didn’t blindly praise it, they praised it for its excellent quality.

      The last few HP movies did receive some backlash, but overall they were still fairly faithful adaptions of beloved books, and well made movies in their own right, so the overall response was highly positive.

      Game of Thrones is not even remotely comparable. The writing quality of the show has been in a free fall for a while now, but people mostly gave it a pass because so much was still so good, and because people thought it was all leading to an incredibly satisfying pay off.

      Now that it’s the final season, people expect them to stick the landing, and are not as willing to forgive the myriad plot holes, inconsistencies, retcons, contradictions, and other logic-defying moments.

      Game of Thrones has excellent actors, sets, costumes, visual effects, etc…, but the writing is sorely lacking, and people are really taking notice now.

      That’s all there is to it. Most people are still very positive about the show, so it isn’t actually hated.
      But people have become more critical, because the many, many issues with the script are just too glaring to overlook.

      People don’t have any desire to hate the ending of something beloved. Unfortunately, the ending is, so far, nowhere near the standard that the show set for itself.

      We’ll see if they can remedy this in the last two episodes.

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    12. Nick20: Most people are still very positive about the show, so it isn’t actually hated.

      AH, so you haven’t been to reddit then, where there are people asking where D&D live

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    13. Nick20,

      I couldn’t disagree more. The problem with GOT ending is that it’s impossible to please everyone. Everyone has their favorite characters, storylines, theories, etc. and it’s impossible to meet everyone’s expectations. That’s why I watch the show with zero expectations and allow the showrunners to tell their story. The writing has been fantastic this season, and last episode was no exception. It’s just that people don’t like the Danerys implications or the White Walkers being defeated sooner than expected, even though the same will happen in the books. I, for one, am seriously enjoying this season and it’s currently my third favorite. I have no doubt D&D will stick the landing.

      If you watched Breaking Bad as critical as you watch GOT, you will see it has massive flaws. I know this because I decided to rewatch it that way. Never again. It took all the joy out of it, but what I found surprising was how Breaking Bad has similar flaws to what people claim GOT have.

      Also, I don’t think you know what a plot hole is.

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    14. Nick20,

      I certainly appreciate your response, and I understand where you are coming from, even though I disagree with your larger points about the writing. I personally thought the writing for episodes 2 and 4 this season was excellent. Episode 1, I thought was very weak writing wise, and Episode 3 didn’t have all that much writing to begin with! 🙂

      We shall see indeed if they will stick the landing. Though, there is no doubt the ending will be divisive, my main question will be “given everything leading up to this point, does the ending make sense?” It’s certainly not gonna be a happy ending for everyone, nor should it be.

      I just thought of some other shows that were panned in their final seasons – Dexter, and the Wire.

      The hatred towards Dexter’s final season is totally understandable. I don’t know WTF that was.

      The Wire on the other hand had a forgettable final season overall, but a TERRIFIC finale, IMO.

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    15. Stark Raven’ Rad:
      Well, it was a pretty good episode but a victim of considerable blowback from the hate for Ep 3, which I think was vastly overblown.The ‘fans’ have turned on it with such force that they’re threatening D&D, creating petitions, and deliberately and in a semi-organised way driving down popular, vote-able ratings.I’ve seen several say they thought it was a 4-6 episode but on IMDBthey gave it a 1 on principle.Then they urge others to make as many IMDB IDs as possible to drive the rating down even more.Oh, and how they love monitoring and reporting its descent.The Internet is the perfect vehicle for mob mentality. You can sharpen your pitchfork and go do great damage from your desk and all anonymously.

      At least the reviewers were entertaining and/or analytical.I think GoT nerds like us have so much invested in hopes and theories that we cannot simply enjoy it anymore.I loathe GoT Academy’s schadenfreude, which is probably not going to happen anyway (IMO, she’s a decent politician but a terrible person who doesn’t give a shilling for anyone but herself. She’s Cersei minus the deliberate sadism and evil).I haven’t got time or patience for the long one, but thank you for sharing the others.There is still a little sanity left in the fandom.Online, most of it is here at WotW.

      I completely agree with you. I always visited Reddit for the memes and videos. But since last week I am in complete shock what is happening there. I find that hate really disturbing and sick. It is just a tv series. I do not understand what these people gain from that behaviour.

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    16. Nick20,

      I actually agree with you regarding the writing, but like you say, this has been happening for a while. I don’t think it’s fair to punish the show on its writing purely on the basis that this is the last season when it actually hasn’t really changed much over the last couple of seasons (I actually think it’s been stronger this season than 5 or 7).

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    17. Ozzie Man’s review excellent as always as was Smokescreen. As a casual viewer, I just find it incredible how people pick out objects which are out of place like a Starbucks coffee cup on the table! They must examine the video a frame at a time or in slow speed specifically looking for objects which shouldn’t be there. I bet shit hit the fan with the production crew or those responsible for continuity between scenes. I wonder what D&D had to say about that 🙂

      I also agree with Smokescreen’s comment that Dany after seeing Rheagal brought down should have attacked Euron’s fleet from behind. Looks that that mistake may be resolved in the next episode from that scene in the trailer with Euron looking up to the sky.

      I have to say many of these video reviews with large groups are puerile! Just clowning around and acting like assholes! The only one I enjoy is the Burlington Bar crowd’s reaction which is in real time.

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    18. Crannogman Matt,

      I also agree with Nick (and with you) about the writing. The term that comes to mind for me is clunky in places.

      I don’t disagree with any of the outcomes, deaths, etc. But the way they get there just doesn’t flow organically recently in my opinion.

      Still, this season hasn’t been terrible. Episode 1 was decent. I might even call it good as a season opening episode. I thought Episode 2 was great. One of my favorite episodes of the whole show. Episode 3 had some good moments and I loved the ending, but I thought it was mediocre in comparison to other battle episodes. Episode 4 started well but trailed off badly for me.

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    19. I agree with some of the complaints, but most of them seem exaggerated. I mean, the show’s basically over. What’s the point? Most of the professionals have already moved on to other projects.

      I guess it’s important for future shows, to see what worked and what didn’t work. However, despite all the harsh criticism, this is still the most popular thing on TV right now. And it has been for a while. Only one of the most expensive movies ever made could even compare to the hype surrounding Game of Thrones.

      So one could make the argument that everything they did worked. At least on some level. Otherwise the audience would be decreasing after they ran out of material. When you realize that the opposite happened, it’s hard to make objective arguments.

      Financial success isn’t the only metric by which we judge entertainment, but at the end of the day nothing can sustain itself on critical praise alone. I’ve loved many shows which didn’t even make it past season two.

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    20. ChoppinBroccoli: I’ve loved many shows which didn’t even make it past season two.

      No kidding! Two of my favorites fall in the too short category, Firefly with just one season and Pushing Daisies. I loved PD and it was critically acclaimed (17 Emmy noms in two seasons), but unfortunately it was an eventual casualty mainly due to the writers strike messin’ it up (imo). ABC cut it too quickly. Anna Friel and Kristin Chenoweth were smoke-shows on it too. 😉

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    21. I’ve loved the past few episodes – as individual episodes. The acting has been great, the production value and music just phenomenal, and the intensity and emotion both at epic levels.

      Where the show in general is getting frustrating to me are the clear shortcuts, often with silly and contrived scenes. These dumb plot devices don’t exist to tell a better story, they only exist to dramatically speed things up so D&D can go work on Star Wars.

      As for fan expectations, it is *not* fan service to craft an intelligent narrative that wraps up an epic series. Sure there can be surprises and not every loose end has to be tied up neatly with a bow, and I’m not someone to hold D&D’s feet to the fire about every little prophecy detail.

      But an epic series isn’t just a bunch of individual episodes. It’s a story. And at this point, it’s looking less and less likely that it’s being done justice.

      I still have hope, but yes I’m worried. If the ending sucks, it will be a great tragedy for not only fans, but for art and the craft of film making.

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    22. ThisGirlHasNoName: I’ve loved the past few episodes – as individual episodes. The acting has been great, the production value and music just phenomenal, and the intensity and emotion both at epic levels.

      Where the show in general is getting frustrating to me are the clear shortcuts, often with silly and contrived scenes.

      Can you elaborate on this? What are some examples of the silly and contrived scenes?

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    23. Joseph Mobile,

      Example shortcut 1: Jon + team going to the other side of the wall just to bring back a dead person, when only a moron would think that would convince Cercei to do anything. A massive risk for such a small possible reward. My guess is they needed a way for the NK to bring down the wall quickly, so they decided on an ice dragon, and worked back from there to create an excuse.

      Example 2: Going to the gates of Kings Landing to negotiate a surrender with Cercei when CERCEI IS WINNING. The entire scene was contrived to give Dany an excuse to go all Mad Queen on Kings Landing without making her look evil or crazy.

      And then just about everything about show-Euron feels contrived and out of place. I just don’t buy him as a major end-game character or villain.

      There have been a few other less obvious ones in the past, but for those I just raised my eyebrows and overlooked them because they were rather insignificant. These however are not.

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    24. ThisGirlHasNoName,

      1. I didn’t find the idea behind the wight hunt terrible. There was a good chance Cersei would agree to a ceasefire after seeing what’s coming for her, as any intelligent person would. They had no way of knowing how she would react. After all, the precedent hadn’t been set yet for how Cersei would react in the face of an Ice Zombie Apocalypse. The execution, however, was pretty bad. Jon should have known escape by dragon would be their only option.

      2. The parley with Cersei was for appearances only. Danerys wanted to show the people of Westeros that she did everything she could to avoid what’s about to happen.

      3. Euron was never and is never going to be the Big Bad in the show. His role is that of supporting antagonist.

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    25. Young Dragon,

      Agreed on all of those points. The Wight Hunt actually wasn’t a stupid idea – how else were they going to get an audience with Cersei to demonstrate the threat of the Army of the Dead? Even if the escape via dragon wasn’t handled the cleanest, and there certainly could’ve been more dialogue to demonstrate how many days have passed, it wasn’t unforgivable.

      Point 2 is self explanatory.

      Point 3: I think it’s fair to assume that a lot of the Night King’s Actions will be mirrored pretty closely by Euron in the book. It’s patently obvious that he is either going to control a dragon and likely kill a dragon. And it is clear he isn’t the final boss, just a supporting antagonist. I do imagine his role to be similar in the books as well.

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    26. Nick20,

      Joseph Mobile,

      I agree that Breaking Bad’s final season was incredible. It actually is my favorite series after Game of Thrones. However I will say that the final season got a lot of praise because everything played out like people expected. Since the first episode of the first season I knew the show would end with the death of Walter White. I also figured that Walter would kill all the bad guys and sacrifice himself in that way. Hank’s death was pretty predictable too. There simply wasn’t a lot of controversy regarding that final season because it was predictable and gave the people what they wanted. That was never going to happen to GoT. I understand people who criticize stuff like Dany not seeing Euron’s fleet, but I have also seen a lot of comments about how Dany’s character is now ruined and that it is bad writing to turn her into the Mad Queen. People are seriously blaming D&D for coming up with that even though it’s clearly George’s idea. I honestly believe that a lot of people would get mad if the series didn’t end with Daenerys and Jon ruling together and with Dany getting pregnant. Now that ending would be the real disappointment for me.

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    27. I am also still thinking about episode 4: particularly a seemingly throw away line…

      Bronn to Jaime re Brienne: It must be like looking in a mirror.

      Now Bronn may have meant this as an insult implying Jaime is vain, a call back to Jaime loving his own twin, and that ‘toffs’ stick together.

      But what if Jaime looked in the ‘mirror’ of Brienne, and found himself still wanting after keeping his oath, and that’s partly why, once it is revealed Cersei has a better chance than was thought, he goes back?

      Bran told Jaime he would help. It may be more than helping against the dead…

      Of course many people think Jaime going ‘back’ to Cersei is a red herring and he is actually going to kill her. But if D & D can mislead us with Jaime, then we can hope they are misleading us with Dany and she won’t massacre civilians…?

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    28. cosca: AH, so you haven’t been to reddit then, where there are people asking where D&D live

      Bunch of fanatics, not fans, that are madder than the Mad King. And suffering from a staggering sense of entitlement.

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    29. Silly question: But when people complain about the writing, is it the dialogue they are complaining about, the sequence of things, the planning of things, the timing… or is it a mix of everything?

      Sorry if this is a silly (and very delayed) question, but it is something I have heard as a very big complaint and I was wondering what could be done to fix it…?

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    30. Clob,

      Omg I loved Pushing Daisies 🙂. Very disappointed it was canceled, I don’t even remember it very well now, but it felt creative and unique, a breath of fresh air.

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    31. Young Dragon,

      I hear what you’re saying and admit it might just be me. But I don’t get why they needed a ceasefire from Cercei. She wasn’t going to follow Dany and her troops North, to help them or to attack them.

      All they got in return was Jaime. And for that prize, they lost a dragon, Thoros, and any possible protection of the wall – which was not only a big thick wall, but supposedly protected with magic to stop the WWs. They also lost all the people at Last Hearth, who would have had time to evacuate safely.

      I hated that twist at the time and it still bugs me. Intelligent characters wouldn’t have wasted time hunting for wights just to show Cercei they are real, when they needed to prepare for battle.

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    32. Lol, all the “reviews” are of shills of the show who would praise any garbage they put on screen. Almost the whole world is either disappointed or angry with the last two episodes, but for some reason all the comments in Watchers on the Wall are of people fawning over the episode. At some point we have to accept the truth, no matter how much we loved the show before.

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    33. ThisGirlHasNoName,

      Well, it seemed that Danerys was worried that if she took her army North, Cersei would have retook the land Danerys had gained, so that’s why Danerys wanted the ceasefire. Of course, that didn’t happen and Cersei simply used the time to strengthen King’s Landing’s defenses, but I would say that it was a legitimate concern. The journey Beyond the Wall did give Danerys the opportunity to see the Army of the Dead herself and to see what she was up against, so even though they lost a great deal, they did gain Dany’s full support, which went a long way to defeating them.

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    34. rizwan,

      Accept what truth? You may not like this season, but that doesn’t mean the rest of us have to share your opinion. I thought the last two episodes were amazing and season 8 is currently my third favorite. And the rest of the world does not hate it. If they did, last episode wouldn’t have received 11.8 million live viewers. I said it before, if Breaking Bad was watched as critically as GOT, viewers would see it is just as flawed.

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    35. Stark Raven’ Rad:
      Well, it was a pretty good episode but a victim of considerable blowback from the hate for Ep 3, which I think was vastly overblown.The ‘fans’ have turned on it with such force that they’re threatening D&D, creating petitions, and deliberately and in a semi-organised way driving down popular, vote-able ratings.I’ve seen several say they thought it was a 4-6 episode but on IMDBthey gave it a 1 on principle.Then they urge others to make as many IMDB IDs as possible to drive the rating down even more.Oh, and how they love monitoring and reporting its descent.The Internet is the perfect vehicle for mob mentality. You can sharpen your pitchfork and go do great damage from your desk and all anonymously.

      At least the reviewers were entertaining and/or analytical.I think GoT nerds like us have so much invested in hopes and theories that we cannot simply enjoy it anymore.I loathe GoT Academy’s schadenfreude, which is probably not going to happen anyway (IMO, she’s a decent politician but a terrible person who doesn’t give a shilling for anyone but herself. She’s Cersei minus the deliberate sadism and evil).I haven’t got time or patience for the long one, but thank you for sharing the others.There is still a little sanity left in the fandom.Online, most of it is here at WotW.

      I have to agree with you on all points. Some of it has even blown over here a bit – I don’t care if someone likes or doesn’t like an episode as long as it’s for good reason, but some really seem to like to hear the sound of their own typing. 😆 I think I’ll actually stay away more for the last 2 episodes – I don’t have the emotional energy, to be honest. As for GoT Academy, I feel the same as you.

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    36. Black Raven: I wonder what D&D had to say about that 🙂

      D&D were in the room where it happened (sorry, couldn’t help the Hamilton reference), which makes it that much funnier. They had cameos as wildlings.

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    37. rizwan:
      Lol, all the “reviews” are of shills of the show who would praise any garbage they put on screen.

      I would never say ‘all’ but it would be naive to think some of that doesn’t go on. I don’t mean in terms of money but other things, like invites to network events or future pre-screen materials etc.

      Anyway, I have rather liked the set-up episodes 2 & 4. Episode 2 was nearly perfect. Episode 4 had some odd decision like not showing Arya and Sansa’s reaction to the Aegon news. I felt like there must have been a collective groan across the country. lol.

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    38. rizwan: Lol, all the “reviews” are of shills of the show who would praise any garbage they put on screen.

      for some reason all the comments in Watchers on the Wall are of people fawning over the episode.

      option 1: “There’s a conspiracy to pay people on a fan website to lie about liking the show in their reviews and comments”

      option 2: “People have a different opinion than me.”

      “OPTION 1 DEFINITELY MAKES MORE SENSE”

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    39. I agree that the writing since season 5 had some problems. But the episodes since season 5 that were good, were the best I’ve ever seen on television.
      I found this seaso episode 1 and 3 a little bit disapointing. But episode 2 was really excellent. And I also liked episode 4. The episode was not perfect, but certainly not worse what we have seen the previous seasons. I also thought everyone reacted in character. Euron was always good in surprise attacks and Cersei always liked to torture her enemies. Jon hasn’t been doing much since he met Dany, I liked him more before. I feel sorry for Dany losing everything and everyone since she came to Westeros. She made the mistake that the Iron Throne was her birthright while her father lost it for a good reason. Her not realising people are not waiting for another Targ after what her father did, is her downfall.

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    40. Ozzy Man is always my favourite. A quick, concise, funny recap and then a review where he doesn’t shy away from pointing out weaknesses but maintains a generally positive attitude. Like, it wasn’t perfect but I enjoyed it so I’m not going to nitpick it to death.

      Many these video recaps/reviews suffer from being done immediately afterwards, after only one watch and without time to let things sink in and think them through. Fair enough, that’s how casual viewers see the show… but would casual viewers even watch these type of vids?

      One of my pet peeves for this episode was so many video recappers going, how did Bronn get into the castle, and I’m going, IT WAS AN INN IN WINTERTOWN, YOU MORONS!!! 😀 I got that on my first watch when I was completely emotionally involved. Establishing shot outside. Do pay attention. 😀

      History of Westeros guys take time to watch the episode at least twice or three or four times before doing their stuff. I really like their output, the only problem is the lenght, typically well over 2hrs (this one was 2:23!), so you have to find time to watch it. But when you find the time, I really like their approach. Not shying away from valid criticisms, pointing out things that maybe didn’t quite work, but not going overboard with it. Bringing in different points of view, food for thought, focussing on the positives, not the negatives. I’ve always thought Aziz is very personable but I’m coming to value Sean more and more. He always makes interesting, even philosophical points. Even Assheia’s (sorry about the spelling 🙁 ) off-screen comments are constructive and interesting – she freaked a bit around S5 and I started disliking her input, but she seems to have made her peace with the show now.

      One thing that really struck me was the reaction to Braime. I’m a huuuge Jaime fan and a Braime shipper, though I know it’s dooooomed, and we probably just saw its death knell. There won’t be any happy retirement in Tarth, Jaime’s good as dead now, and I understand not everybody shares my views, and that’s all right.

      But the way the all male Collider panel and the 3 male – 1 female Young Turks panel dealt with it, and also mentioned Arya’s pre-battle sex in Ep2 and Gendry’s proposal in Ep4 was just… WTF?! Basically: They’re warrior women, they don’t need to have sex. Or any of that stupid romance stuff.

      Like, WTF?!? Why can’t warrior women have romantic feelings, sexual feelings and urges. Warrior men do.

      Why is there this wish to asexualise warrior women?

      I think a lot of the pushback against the Arya/Gendry sex scene in Ep2 came from this fount. Why do people (men?) feel so uncomfortable about warrior women having a sexual side to their character, acknowleging their feminity and even desire for love and romance? Is it because they were thought “awesome” and “badasses” when they were “just like blokes”, and bringing sex, love, romance into it… I dunno… somehow ruins the bloke narrative?

      Are warrior men the less if they have sex, love, have a relationship? Why should female warriors like Ser Brienne and Arya be any different? Huh?

      Also, I wonder what show the Collider and Young Turks folks have been watching when they proclaim there’s no chemistry between Jaime and Brienne. It was oooozing out of their eyes in the feast this episode (Tyrion saw it) but it all started late in season 2. You don’t have to be a Braime shipper to acknowlege that this is what the show is showing us. Maybe not love and babies and happiness (that’ll defo never happen), but to just flat out deny the chemistry? To asexualise the woman warrior? To keep up the bloke narrative. The boys cool, girls stupid narrative?

      Sorry for stupidly long post but this was something that really struck me in many of the vid recaps. Denying Ser Brienne her sexuality and feminity, just when she was embracing it.

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    41. Mr Derp: Lol, all of your posts end with this statement.I don’t think you’re as sorry as you claim 🙂

      Not really sorry but a bit embarrassed at how verbiose I always am. I just cannot write short, concise, to the point posts, haha. 😀

      Did you read the long post? What do you think of the asexualiation (by fandom) of female warriors such as Ser Brienne and Arya?

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    42. talvikorppi,

      I didnt see the vid, so I’m not sure what was specifically said, but these days it’s often times a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don’t scenario no matter what you say.

      If someone is in favor of Brienne being sexual, then they’re accussed of “sexualizing” women, in other words, treating them as objects.

      Yet, if one takes the opposite approach and doesn’t specifically want Brienne to be sexual, she’s being “denied her sexuality and femininity”.

      It’s a slippery slope.

      Having said that, my personal opinion is that I’m all for anyone being sexual if that’s what they and their partner wants. To me, sex is power. It’s nothing to be afraid of or shied away from, though, of course, no one should be forced to be sexual if they don’t want to be.

      It’s all about freedom of choice. What I don’t like is when women or men are boxed into a certain type of sexual role. What if a woman wants to be submissive? Does that mean they are setting women backwards? Hell no, it means they are getting to do what makes them happy, but I think a lot of feminists would have a problem with that because it doesn’t fit the “strong woman” narrative that’s forced on everyone today. Just like a woman should be free to be domineering if that’s what makes her and their partner comfortable. It’s all about letting people be who they want to be as long as it doesn’t impede someone else’s ability to be who they want to be.

      I think a lot of men are scared of strong, confident, powerful women. It makes some guys uncomfortable, which is really a reflection of their own sexual issues.

      Sorry not sorry for the long post 😉

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    43. Thanks for your long (sorry, not sorry) and considered response.

      I broadly agree with your sentiments. I’m not even what would be called a “feminist” in my country. The culture and mindset is different, but a lot of US people would consider most of women and many men in my country “rampant feminists” for thinking 9 months maternity leave is a good thing etc.

      However, l was almost shocked by the Collider and Young Turks folks saying warrior women shouldn’t have sex, or romance, or love. Wait, what?

      Like do they really have such a narrow view of womanhood that if you’re a woman with the physical abilities and training to be a warrior, you should deny your sex and just “be a bloke”, and not just “be a bloke” but deny your sexuality, and relationships, love and romance and all that because apparently warrior women aren’t supposed to have any of that, just be “cool badasses”. Huh?

      “Cool badass” men, of course, are allowed to have sex, relationships, love, all that. You do see the double standard in this, don’t you? (I don’t mean you personally, just in the generic sense.)

      After Jaime’s clumsy seduction attempt (Oh, it’s so hot, I must take off my clothes – I was screaming with laughter, it went exactly like I’d imagined it would), Brienne was in charge. She claimed her sexuality and feminity.

      They had their “honeymoon” for at least a few weeks. Dany’s contingent travelling to White Harbour, sailing to Dragonstone, raven getting back to Winterfell. That news was what made Jaime leave and be so cruel to Brienne.. But it’s obvious they’d been lovers for a few weeks. She comes out, not in her armour, as a knight, but in her robe, as a woman. Makes it all the more heart-breaking. What could’ve been. If only…

      NOT sorry for long post. ;-D

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    44. Stark Raven’ Rad,

      Nah I don’t think you speak for all ‘GoT Nerds’. GoT academy have been slating the poor quality of the writing for a while now, and they’re clearly fans, probably bigger nerds than happy clappers like you. Some of us don’t get pleasure from slating the show, we are genuinely pissed off with the decline of the show and how two guys can butcher another man’s work… and then get more work out of it so they can go butcher George Lucas’ work (well.. whatever is left after the prequels and obvs the sequel series)

      The show sucks and only now the illusion is starting to shatter for a lot of viewers. GoT academy were criticising it a long time ago.

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    45. Joseph Mobile,

      If you want an example of a similar toxic response to a pop culture phenomenon, don’t look any further than Star Wars: The Last Jedi (funny coincidence that this particular episode was called The Last of The Starks). I don’t want to say there is no place for criticism. Criticism is good and needed (‘’Be critical of the media you love’’ to use a quote of someone that got a lot of hate of analysing certain tropes in video games). However, what I see now is just hate. Like with The Last Jedi, people are attacking the people that worked on it and even sending death threats. It is okay to not like a thing and say that you don’t like it, but this is really not okay. I also think it is really sad that people are downvoting this episode vigorously by making multiple accounts and rate it 1 out of 10 (again the same happened with the Last Jedi).
      Funny thing is that there is even a clip going around that would ‘’prove’’ that Emilia Clarke hated this season and this strengthens their belief that this season is ‘’objectively’’ bad (again the same happened with the Last Jedi, whereby they used a clip of Mark Hamill (who plays Luke Skywalker))

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    46. talvikorppi,

      Thank you so much for your observations about Brienne and Jaime. I agree with you whole-heartedly.

      I barely even visit here anymore because there are so many acidic commenters who can’t see the story that has played out before their eyes for 6 years now. Talk about foreshadowing. Good gods.

      I don’t know how that story will end, but I am very happy that Brienne became Ser Brienne and gave herself up to her own desire for love and intimacy with a man she has helped and also learned from for a long time. I applaud Brian Cogman and the Dan & Dave Show for providing these dramatic denouements to the ship that is Braime.

      And I wish all here good fortune in the two final episodes to come.

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    47. Nobody,

      Jaime knows that the child Cersei is carrying is his. You know this… right? It was discussed several times between Jaime and Cersei. But I still think Jaime will kill her.

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    48. This seems to have become my regular job on the WotW Video Review page, but not that I’m complaining! Someone has to do it 🙂

      For those interested, here is the review from Alt Shift X for S8E04. The amount of detail this guy goes into with maps, family trees, where characters currently are and references to earlier seasons is very clever. Its not surprising he’s always the last to upload his video to Youtube and IMHO, well worth waiting for.

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    49. Black Raven,

      Saw it yesterday but I’m glad you posted it. AltShiftX’s holds his snark in check brilliantly. He rides that edge, letting the fandom do the extreme reactions. I was surprised that he didn’t mention how Tyrion spoke to both Cersei (directly) and Euron (indirectly) during his Qarth…I mean KL…parley at the gates. But then again, maybe Euron is that stupid and not worth mentioning.

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