Open Chat

Game of Thrones Season 5, Episode 1 – The Wars to Come – Open Chat

Posted on by Sue the Fury

Jon and Mance 2

It’s been a long nine months but tonight, Game of Thrones returns and it just might be better than ever. That call will be yours to make tonight when you finally clap your eyes on the season premiere, “The Wars to Come.” Talk amongst yourselves for the next few hours, and as soon as the episode ends, I’ll share my thoughts and recap the episode for the book-readers and spoiler hounds. A separate post for Unsullied viewers who prefer no spoilers will go up at 10PM.

Until then – the Wall is yours.

*Special Note After the Cut*

Season 5, Episode 1: “The Wars to Come”
Writers: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss
Director: Michael Slovis
Runtime: 53 minutes
Content Warnings: TV-MA: Adult Content, Adult Language, Graphic Violence, Nudity
Synopsis: Cersei and Jaime adjust to a world without Tywin. Varys reveals a conspiracy to Tyrion. Dany faces a new threat to her rule. Jon is caught between two kings.
Video Preview: Season 5 Trailers: “Heroes” and “The Wheel”

 

*Note: this post is for all viewers so please use spoiler coding when discussing spoilers.*

*Special Note due to the Episode Leaks:* We ask that viewers keep their discussion of Season 5 Episode 1 to this thread today. People who have chosen to not watch the leaked episode can chat in Oz’s Unsullied post HERE. Spoiler coding is still required in this Open Chat post previous to the episode’s official airing (9PM EDT tonight for Episode 1). This is a tough situation so we ask that fans use consideration for your fellow viewers and label your spoilers appropriately.

And while we understand that discussion of the leaked episodes or the leaking situation will occur, we do ask that commenters not post links to any pirated materials or download sites. Thanks!

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Sue the Fury
Susan Miller, Editor in Chief of WatchersOnTheWall.com

241 Comments

  2. I gave in and watched the leaks (just the first episode). But Im still gonna pay for all the episodes. I have HBO and I won’t watch anymore now

    The first episode is incredible. It is beautifully written and the quality of the pacing and the storytelling is the finest D&D have ever produced

  9. days,

    .

    Stannis is just incredible. He is the star of this season.

    Cersei is great. Sansa is great, Dany is better than ever. Tyrion is fine, for now.

  12. I’m really surprised that not more reviews mentioned Emilia Clarke’s acting. Or the material she was given, anyway. She’s great in this; the character hasn’t been this human and relatable since season one. Seeing her just… talk, like humans do, is a big change from the “Ice Queen” routine, which she of course slips into when she’s in official capacity as Queen, just as it should be.

    The most promising bits of the episode are undoubtedly at the Wall (and generally the North), which I’ve never been able to say for previous seasons. Stannis in Jon are particularly great.

  13. I don’t understand how people can watch the leaked episodes. I don’t think I would be able to watch all four and then have to wait even longer for episode 5

    Im really looking forward to the first episode

    although I am disappointed that Arya wont appear until episode 2. I was hoping that she was going to be heavily featured this year but it looks like she will have the same amount of screentime/episodes as last year

  14. Here is an amusing sidenote. An “Unsullied” friend of ours thinks he’s figured out who Jon Snow is: Rhaegar’s son. However, not an “unknown” son: he thinks that Jon is Aegon the Xteenth! His rationale: the show has mentioned Oberyn’s dead nephew just one too many times to be unimportant. His thought is also that Ned covered for Aegon because they made it so clear in Season 1 that Ned would not countenance the killing of children.

    I told him that I thought his answer was incorrect, but that I still gave it an A+ for general logic and power. (When we told him about the generally accepted conjecture, he agreed that it explained what he’d picked up and then some: but he wants to know if Aegon is still out there! That I did not answer….)

  15. HelloThere,

    Yep,that’s right.I’ve managed to stay strong and avoid all those leaked episodes this season.In general a lot of people are happy so far with this season,which is good thing. 🙂

  17. Geralt of Rivia,

    I’ve unfortunately wandered across the opinions of those who watched the leaked episodes. Generally, those that accept the deviations loved them, and the ones that don’t thought they were mostly weak. All agree that Stannis/Jon is great.

  20. Thank you to Dish Network for providing a free preview weekend for HBO. (Thought it wouldn’t happen this year with the HBO Now/Apple deal.) I can watch at least the premiere episode with so many others. Just 6.5 hours left!

  21. There’s only just 7 more hours until the premiere! > <!

    I know if I watch the first four, I'll go another month of excruciating wait.

  22. Luka Nieto,

    I completely agree about Dany/Emilia Clarke. I’ve long maintained that she’s an actress highly dependent on the material (which is the case with all actors, really; putting Patrick Stewart in Plan 9 from Outer Space will not save it), and so much of her storytelling since season 2 has just disregarded her inner life. That’s finally returned here, as well as focus on things like her relationship with the dragons (and Rhagel and Viserion finally, finally get names; that has to be the most inexplicably delayed exposition in the history of the show).

    I think this is, overall, the strongest run of four opening episodes that the show has had to date. While its foibles are still very much there in varying degrees, the plots are all working (Arya’s is a bit slow). All with the exception of Winterfell, which, I’m sorry, I try to appreciate it on a scene-to-scene level, but however good the actors are, this is just stupendously forced on a plot level. It does not make sense.

  23. Walter Harrow,

    It’s a good choice to wait and put a character in until you have time to really spend with them. You watch Daredevil yet? You should, it’s great.

    Wilson Fisk doesn’t even make an appearance for like three or four episodes… but when he does!

  24. Sean C.,

    Season 3, just one scene that gave her good scope landed her an Emmy nomination. I think its fair to say that the writing for Dany has been the most inconsistent of any character. Shes more than capable of excelling when the material is good.

  25. The Family Name,

    I am only on the sixth episode of Daredevil, but understand exactly what you are saying about Wilson Fisk. Vincent D’Onofrio is brilliant.

    I love the way they built him up by having his right hand man/assistant deal with people and telling them not to say his name etc. The scene where he kills the russian by taking his head off with his car door was great.

  27. I’ve never been a huge Emilia Clarke fan, but like the show as a whole, she seems to have only gotten better. Great to hear she has more to work with. Hopefully Kit Harrington does as well.

  31. mau,

    Yeap. Littlefinger explains his immediate reasoning to Sansa, and later, again with her, he explains how he plans to deal with the possible outcomes (including what she should do if Petyr’s gamble goes wrong.) Later, he explains what he and the others involved should do when the consequences for this decision come, with a Lord whose name I shall not mention here. It all makes sense to me. “A gamble,” of course, but that’s Littlefinger for you.

  32. mau,

    Littlefinger expects Stannis to defeat the Boltons, at which point he will name Sansa Warden of the North (excuse, me “wardenness”). So…why are they going to Winterfell to marry into the Boltons? Go to Stannis and pledge your support. With the Vale’s armies in support, Stannis’ victory would be utterly assured, and even now he already has more men.

    It would be one thing if Sansa was meant to be doing something at Winterfell, as in, something to help Stannis win. But she isn’t. She’s just supposed to sit tight and wait for him to show up.

    And then there’s just the fundamentally nonsensical idea that Roose Bolton would ever believe that Sansa Stark would want to ally with him — and he apparently considers this a good faith arrangement on her part; he’s suspicious of Baelish’s motives, not hers. He murdered her brother, it’s clear from their initial meeting he knows she knows that.

  33. Sean C.,

    If Sansa were to go to Stannis, she’d become his puppet. By already being the Lady of Winterfell and holding the castle when Stannis comes, weary after the storms and battles between Castle Black and Winterfell, Sansa can negotiate from a position of power.

    As for what would happen if Stannis doesn’t defeat the Boltons, Littlefinger covers that too, and though a dark outcome, it’s certainly workable and makes sense, at least for now.

    Also, if you really think the audience got all the information Sansa got, or that at least Littlefinger doesn’t have other plans, I’d bet you’re surely mistaken. “Avenge them,” he says to Sansa. There’s more going on here than meets the eye, and her few scenes in Winterfell only serve to reinforce that. She’s there to fulfill Manderly’s and maybe even Mance’s role, roughly.

  34. Sean C.,

    I haven’t watched the leaks, and I was not a fan of this development(I’m still skeptical), but regarding your two points, the only counterarguments could be:

    1. This is the most reasonable critique. Why does Sansa need to be at Winterfell and with the Boltons? Why not go directly to Stannis? Well, if there were no ships to bypass the North on the way to the Wall, the argument would be that they couldn’t get past the Boltons and their new bannermen by land, especially with Winter nearly upon them. However, we know LF has a ship. So the reasoning will always seem silly.

    2. Why should Roose care? He doesn’t need a happy Sansa, he needs a pregnant Sansa who weds his son.

  36. Sean C.,

    Besause LF doesen’t want to be openly against the crown. He can’t use army. Not yet.

    And Sansa must be there because LF doesen’t want her to be Stannis’s puppet. LF has the same reason YG had, when he decided to go to Westeros. To welcome Dany as equal.

    Of course that Roose Bolton doesen’t belive Sansa, but she is nothing in his eyes . Only tool.

    And that old lady said “The North remembers” .

    Something’s coming. It’s clear foreshadowing.

  37. Luka Nieto,

    Kit was great in season 4.I am glad that Emilia is doing well.She’s been criticized a lot after last season(it was not her mistake,bad material in general etc) and some nasty comments on youtube.

  38. Geralt of Rivia,

    Still dont think she was bad in season 4. She just had too many repetitive scenes. There r just a ton of haters who are salivating to b itch about her and dany

  39. Luka Nieto,

    I haven’t seen the episodes yet, but don’t really know whether I like the sound of the winterfell plot. Why would Littlefinger tell Roose that she is Sansa? Isnt Roose allied with the Lannisters? Wouldn’t word get to Kings Landing that Littlefinger has Sansa? I know Tywin isnt there anymore, bu that would no doubt lead to problems for Littlefinger and Boltons so why would Roose go along with it?

  40. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    1. Littlefinger wouldn’t want Sansa to be Stannis’s puppet Lady and Wardeness (one assumes he wants her to be his puppet.) And I’d wager Sansa wants to be the Lady of Winterfell on her own right. So it makes sense for both characters. Sansa will be in a position of power when Stannis’s starved and frozen army comes knocking, which just wouldn’t be the case if Sansa went to Castle Black and begged Stannis to make her the Lady of Winterfell.

    2. Exactly. Of course Roose knows he can’t trust Sansa. He doesn’t need to, in his view.

    —

    Walter Harrow,

    This is addressed satisfactorily. Roose made an allegiance with Tywin, and Tywin’s dead —and anyway, as Roose himself said last season, Tywin made him Warden of the North but he wouldn’t lift a finger to help him claim it and keep it. As for the secret getting out, this is addressed as well; Roose asks Littlefinger about it, and you get an idea of what his thoughts are, though he doesn’t reveal it all.

    And anyway, does anybody expect the Boltons to be loyal to the Lannisters in the books? If they survive that long, anyway.

  41. Maggie the Frog’s description. Part Child of the Forest? They say she has three eyes and cat teeth. Also, the blood to tell the future, Jojen paste fans get hype! The old gods need their blood sacrifice

  43. Luka Nieto,

    Ugh, stupid website, crashing and losing my initial reply.

    Sansa’s not in the position to negotiate at all, let alone from a position of power. She’s not “holding the castle”, the Boltons are. She’s effectively their prisoner. Stannis is not expected to show up with a “starving and frozen army”, but with a victorious army. Even if Sansa was somehow in control of the castle, which she would not be, that’s zero leverage. Stannis would just take the castle, like he did at King’s Landing (which was on the verge of falling before a completely different army showed up).

    Conversely, if they go to Stannis and bring an alliance with the Arryns, they become valuable allies. Or even without them, they can rally Northerners to them and establish their own loyal followers.

    As for the last bit, we can’t really prove or disprove anything that we haven’t seen, but Sansa has no men, and there’s been no casting for other northern lords, nor any indication from their conversations that she’s supposed to be doing anything other than marrying Ramsay and waiting for Stannis to arrive. If she was supposed to be trying to bring the Boltons down, that would have come up in the crypt conversation.

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    2. Roose should care not because he needs her happy, but because he needs to be able to rely on her, from his initial discussions with Ramsay he seems to intend to rely on her, and there is zero reason why he should ever do that.

  44. Sean C.,

    You’re assuming we know their whole plan, despite the fact that we know very little at all, and concluding that the plan is stupid.

    For one, Sansa needs an actual plot, which sitting around isn’t, and it has been implied in interviews and such that she’ll play a large role.

  45. Walter Harrow,

    It is all explained.

    Roose is afraid of rebellion. Many lords don’t accept him. Ne needs a Stark to hold the North. There is one old lady who said to Sansa “The Northe remembers”

    Roose knows that Lannisters are weak now and that they won’t come to fight against Stannis. That’s the reason why he wants Sansa. To have lords from the North.

    Sansa’s arrival is secret for now. LF is pretending to be loyal to the Lannisters. For now. But he said that the North and the Vale together destroyed Targaryens.

  46. Could the leak have been done by someone upset with HBOnow, especially in its current format of Apple only users.

  47. mau,

    Yeah. Forgot about that.

    As I had speculated, Littlefinger promises (well, “teases”) Roose an alliance between the North and the Vale, which twenty years ago “destroyed the greatest dynasty ever to exist.”

  48. Oh man, I have never read the episode threads with the spoiler bars in place. It’s a whole new experience.

  49. Luka Nieto,

    Every single conversation they’ve had about their plan is treated like it’s the first time they’ve spoken about it since the last time they had a scene together. Littlefinger reveals that she’s going to marry Ramsay in episode 3 and gives a seriously incoherent pep talk for why she needs to do it. Then in episode 4, he reveals to her for the first time that they’re actually banking on Stannis to win. There’s nothing to indicate there’s anything more to this plan than what’s been revealed.

    As to Sansa needing a plot, it’s pretty clear that her plot is going be being imprisoned by the Boltons, tortured/tormented in some as-yet-unspecified ways, bonding with Theon, and trying to escape. That’s a plot, in the narrative sense, but it’s not a “plot” that she’s carrying out. It’s what happens when Littlefinger’s stupid plan predictably collapses when the Boltons realize that they get most of the benefits of this plan simply by holding Sansa hostage, which they can easily do since Littlefinger giftwrapped her to them.

  50. Sean C.,

    If Stannis defeats Boltons, he won’t just take the castle. He also needs a Stark. That is a point of his proposal to Jon.

    But Stannis’s full control of the North and Sansa is not in Lf’s interest. Stannis is his enemy also. Only not now.

  51. I haven’t wrapped my head around how they’ll have everyone (except Stannis) forgetting that Sansa is Mrs. Tyrion Lannister, not Miss Stark…

  52. Darkstar,

    Yeah, it’s definitely different.
    I so want to uncover them, but am making myself wait to see what transpires when the episode airs.

    Thanks to all who are doing such a great job of covering the spoilery stuff from the episode, though!!!

  55. Sean C.,

    The whole reason they want a Stark in Winterfell is for propaganda. And now you think they’ll torture her? Okay. That was borderline stupid in the books, with fArya, and it would be worst here.

    —

    Wolfox6,

    This is addressed as well.

    Anyway, no rules of marriage had been set up in the show before.

    The rules are explained in episode three (or four?) They differ from the books, but they make sense. One word: consummation.

  57. Luka Nieto,

    Why bother arguing with someone who clearly made up their mind before they’d watched it? There’s no point debating unreasonable people.

  58. Wolfox6,

    The show has handwaved that. Annulment isn’t necessary in this universe; Sansa’s marriage is automatically invalid on grounds of non-consummation.

    mau,

    If Stannis needs a Stark, Sansa would have just as much leverage going to him directly as she would be being taken prisoner at Winterfell. And if he needs a Stark, he gets most of the benefits merely by having physical possession of her, as the Lannisters and Boltons did.

    Yivo,

    I had “made up my mind” on the basis of the spoiler explanation. The episode did not add anything to that explanation — if it had, I would have considered these new details. What that I’ve said is “unreasonable”?

    mau,

    Because we know they’re going to? That’s the “traumatic scene”, and the “hardships”, and Iwan Rheon talking about having some particularly depraved material this year that he had to steel himself for filming. These episodes set that up pretty damn clearly, what with Ramsay being told to make nice and vowing that he won’t harm Sansa. Obviously he will not keep that vow.

    If he did, the whole Theon plot (and Brienne’s plot, for that matter, since she’s pretty clearly being set up to replace Mance and the spearwives, hence Mance himself actually going up in smoke) wouldn’t have anywhere to go.

  59. Wolfox6,

    I would guess they are going with it was never consummated?

    I suppose getting it annulled could be part of his plan once he gets to King’s Landing?

  60. One thing that strikes me after watching the first episode (I’ll admit, I watched all 4) is that all of the acting performances were excellent, from the main cast to the guest cast.

    We’re into unpublished territory for some of the POV characters, e.g. Sansa, but with all of the adaptation changes that have been made by the show, book readers will be in for surprises. (A few lines of dialogue or a few nonverbal cues on screen can encompass several chapters from the books.) Season 5 had difficult decisions on adaptation from the texts, and episode 1 had a lot to establish. I disagree with some of the choices made, but I’m confident now that this will be a strong season.

    I can go back to fretting over whether The Winds of Winter will see publication prior to Season 6…

  62. Sean C.,

    But Stannis is LF’s enemy.

    The North is just one step in his plan and he doesen’t want Stannis on IT. If he gives him Sansa, Stannis will be too strong. He will have lords from the North on his side.

    But now, Stannis is stronger, but both sides will be weakened after the war and it will be very easy to manipulate them. Vale army will be fresh and rested and Lannisters will be gone by that time besause LF will probably give Olyvar to HS, which will cause more chaos in KL. (WoS)

    LF will let Boltons and Stannis fight to death. Sansa is safe. Boltons won’t hurt her. And Stannis won’t either.

  65. Sean C.,

    We don’t know that. Traumatic scene can be any scene. Maybe Ramsey will torture Myranda in front of Sansa, because she offended his lady?

    Why would Ramsey torture Sansa? With her he will rule in WF until his death.

    Sansa won’t be victim again. Everyone involved with the show said that.

  68. mau,

    Why would Ramsay torture “Arya Stark”? Why did he cut off Theon’s wienie, ruining his value as a hostage? It’s what he does.

    We know from this season that Sansa has a traumatic scene and goes through a lot of hardships, and that this is her hardest season, and that she becomes a prisoner. We know that Ramsay has a particularly depraved scene, and that he gets a new “plaything”. These opening episodes have him being told to behave and mask his true nature, even to the point of having Littlefinger explicitly say he doesn’t know much about Ramsay, and Ramsay promising he’ll never hurt her. The setup that Ramsay is going to turn on Sansa really could not be more blatant.

    And we weren’t told that Sansa would not be victimized, just that she has a “new mentality” about being put in a very similar situation to one she was in before.

  69. Ok I watched the first 4 episodes and I feel so bad about it .. the good thing is they totally blew my mind .. D&D outdone themselves this time .. Every story arc is just pure awesome.. specially some storylines that I was skeptical toward either from reviews or whatever .. they were beautifully written and acted.. rest assured this season will be great if not the best .. Holy shite that’s why I love game of thrones .. it just gets better and better!! ..

    Note:.Sorry I don’t know how to spoiler-tag my comment!! Help? Please?

  72. Sean C.,

    Torture of fArya doesen’t make any sense in the books as well. Only reason why GRRM done that was to push Theon’s transformation.

    We already saw some of this Sansa’s hardships in E3 and 4. She won’t be sexually abused that is sure. Her whole realationship with Ramsey will be like Marg and Joffrey.

  73. Damn leak, now I don’t think i’ll be able to come here after the episodes because clearly nobody gives a sh*t and are still talking about the leaked episodes. Even with spoiler code, there’s no way to know which spoiler is a book spoiler and which one is a show spoiler. Thanks a lot guys.

  74. fuck… i gave in and watched all 4 . Im still gonna buy them legally tho. They were all superb. D&D totally nailed everything. Superb writing acting directing. The besg 4 episode stretch in the shows history. The story telling is so masterfully laid out

  75. Ok so this may not be considered an episode 1 comment but what’s the deal with the leaked episodes? Are they full episodes?

  77. So I have only watched the first episode, no way am I binge watching all 4 to then wait for the fifth. Someone pointed out that the acting in this season was great from main cast to guest actors and I have to agree!

    Will give my opinions in the spoiler.

    The first episode was such a great cinematic piece. You could literally imagine yourself in a theater watching that episode. It was brilliantly shot and directed. I was a bit worried about flashbacks and how they would work but it was fantastic. Young Cersei was brilliant. Dany’s arc this year looks to be exciting, coming from an Unsullied fan. The Wall is now at its most interesting part it has ever been. Jon Snow has matured an awful lot. For me, Varys actually held the scenes with Tyrion together. The only thing I disliked was Tyrion getting out of the box. That took waay too long and over exaggerated. All in all, it’s a strong opening. A great performance by all involved (including the guest actors that we will never see again), and a very strong set up to the arcs to come.

  78. Ragman’s Harbor,

    I’m just not uncovering anything on this thread, although that doesn’t do much when someone doesn’t use the spoiler code (grrrrrr).

    Oz’s Unullied post is totally safe, though.

  79. mau,

    If it was a device to push Theon’s transformation in the books, why would it not also be in the show? Sansa is clearly here to sub for Jeyne Poole (and maybe, maybe some other characters, but as yet there’s no evidence for that) and play that role in his arc, as Alfie has already indicated with his talk about relationships. For Theon’s arc to work, Sansa has to need to be rescued.

    Obviously nothing that happens to her will be as extreme as having sex with dogs (which would never have made the show even if they were using Jeyne, in my opinion). But Ramsay is going to hurt Sansa, probably fairly badly. The foreshadowing for that is overwhelming. And otherwise, she has no reason to need rescue and escape.

  80. Sean C.,

    Thanks a lot 🙂 .. even though it’s too late since I can’t edit my post anymore. .. at least I didn’t spoil anything :/

  81. I can’t decide if this is great or disappointing. On the one hand, I don’t have it available via streaming on my phone since I’m in Canada. With the leak, I COULD end up downloading and then watching them. On the other hand, the sweet agony of anticipation is lost with instant gratification.

    I expect this will make the preview screenings a bit more selective from now on. Always gotta be one person….

  82. Labs,

    Did you read the part about using spoiler tags?

    Nymeria Warrior Queen,

    This sort of thing is one of the main reasons I watched all the episodes as quickly as possible (up past 4 AM). With a leak of this magnitude it’s a spoiler arms race. It’s just not possible to avoid all the comments, Tumblr gifs, etc. for up to a month, so I’d rather immunize myself.


  83. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

    OMG!
    I am so sorry! I had no idea that they were showing! It’s my first time posting and I don’t know how to do the spoiler tag thing. I am so sorry! I deleted my post! Can you tell me how to cover them properly?

  84. I watched the first four (since I made the mistake of reading reviews, nothing was a surprise anyway) and I’ll say I believe this is the strongest season so far. The pacing has changed dramatically – it seems like characters are immediately acting on their propositions rather than dragging them out over multiple episodes – the deviations from the books work absolutely fantastically, the writing is brilliant, and everything feels so fresh and interesting. It definitely feels like phase 2 of Thrones (heading into endgame).
    The dragons are stunning, the Wall story is great, Arya is great, Brienne/Pod are great, Tyrion/Varys are lovely. Love the Sansa @ Winterfell bit. Dorne is a little cringe-worthy but not as bad as I was expecting. Other than that, no complaints at all.

    Okay, help! I’ve got the spoiler codes there and yet it’s coming up plain text.

  85. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

    Highly sorry if my post isn’t spoiler tagged. I did the correct tagging, but it’s not appearing as a spoiler. I hate people who are careless with spoilers too. I haven’t spoiled anything in person, but I just hope that my tags are working correctly. Apologies. Don’t worry about sounding ‘pissy’, it’s your right. Spoilers should be covered.

  87. Sean C.,

    They can use Sansa’s torture for Theon, but they can also use her forgiveness. If she forgive him for all the crimes he did, well, that would be one of the greatest scenes in this show.

    I’m sure that Ramsey will show his true face to Sansa, but I’m also sure that Ramsey will do something to someone else and Sansa will be there to watch and be horrified.

    In some way she will take Reek’s role.

  90. Cathair,

    Ok you need to use either all lower, or all upper case when writing spoiler.

    This leak is pretty annoying, and I don’t really know what this site can do to combat it. I don’t blame people for watching the, hell I’m tempted, but I have no resspect for the twat who uploaadedd them. It isn’t because of the legality of it, but that he showed contempt, and a lack of respect ffor everyone associated with the show.

    Basically the uploader is a cunt.

    For the people who have watched, I hope they were excellent episodes, but try to be more careful when commenting about them. We don’t want to drive people away from this site.

  91. davyJones,

    we really need a edit button…

    I mean to say:

    Again they shouldn’t, its like asking for leaks. One episode is enough, its not like GoT is a show that direly needs critic approval.

    to:
    “They do that every year.”

  92. Pigeon,

    As a fellow Canadian, I understand. I love the anticipation though. Especially so since episode 5 won’t air till May 10th or so.

    And thanks to all the posters above who answered my question! I have watched all seasons, but don’t remember everything said as most eppys I only watched once. 😛

  93. Sean C.,

    You’re probably right, but I just refuse to give any power/validity/whatever the right word is to the asshole who leaked the episdoes, so I will not watch them until they air. In the meantime, I’ll avoid everything I can and curse the hell out of anyone who just posts spoilers from leaked episodes as though they can’t fucking read where it says to cover all spoilers from yet-to-air episodes, or be bothered to do so, or whatever.

    Maybe that isn’t the best way to go about it, but that’s what I’m doing.

  94. Luka Nieto,

    what I was referring to was sansa/winterfell storyline and the sand snakes being cheesy.. (as stated by some of the reviews) they look marvellous and a mile away from being cheesy… I really enjoyed Arya’s storyline though .. I loved everything that took place at the wall .. and I shed some tears at the end of episode 1 .. Manly Tears .. with the music it hit me right in the feels

  95. I want to say that Lena is absolutely fantastic. Every scene with her is pure gold.

    JTargs,

    I think that SS are for now the weakest part of very strong S5. The first scene was a bit chaotic, but I am optimistic for next episodes.

  96. Ragman’s Harbor,

    It’s HBO’s planned Twitter campaign to hype GoT, but they’ve turned it up to 11 in an attempt to make it dominate any Twitter searches for Game of Thrones. (Rather than news of the leak.)

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    My understanding is that is, in fact, the #1 theory at the moment.

    davyJones,

    There is already talk that next year there may be no screeners. Critics would either attend screenings in the major markets or have to watch it Sunday nights like everyone else.

  97. Cathair,

    Labs,

    Thanks. I can understand honest mistakes, especially when one is excited to talk about what they’ve seen.

    I think I’ll go dust the house, or something, until my hackles go back down. 🙂

  98. If you want to know how to use spoiler coding, click the ‘jump to the top’ button and read what it says in the ‘Spoiler Alert!’ box. Remember too, that it is ‘spoiler’ and not ‘spoilers’ that you enter into the coding.

  99. mau,

    Ramsay will attempt to torture and/or abuse Sansa because he is Ramsay Snow. He will do it precisely because it’s not strategically sound. That’s the narrative tension that is being set up with Roose trying to get his untamable son to behave. Ramsay will be a gentleman for a while, but in the end, his true form will emerge because he cannot control his psychopathic urges.

    Re: Birenne…are they really going to have her kill both my favorite characters? That’s rough.

  100. Every time they play “The North Remembers” theme, I almost cry.

    Ramin Djawadi is a great artist.

  101. mau,

    Sansa can’t offer him forgiveness for his crime, the murder of the miller’s boys. She has no connection to them. Theon atoned for that by rescuing Jeyne, another person who “didn’t matter”; while losing the thematic connection (theme never having been a priority for D&D), he could conceivably also atone by rescuing Sansa. But he cannot receive meaningful forgiveness from Sansa for that crime (Sansa doesn’t even known they’re dead, nor did she know the boys or have any reason to care about them; indeed, she’d probably be more happy to learn that her brothers are alive).

    As to the rest, we must needs wait for the episodes to resolve this question. But I’m quite firm that Ramsay’s turning his sadism on Sansa is heavily foreshadowed, and that this outcome is far more in keeping with everything we’ve been told about Sansa’s ordeal this season and Ramsay’s behaviour, as well as the pre-existing narrative outline that’s being adapted.

    The Family Name,

    In truth, I don’t think the screeners are that big a loss, if they are gone. The show does not need advance reviews, at this stage in its development. Obviously it’s no fun for critics and others who would otherwise have gotten them and unfair that they may be deprived of this opportunity because others couldn’t follow the rules, but I don’t think not sending out screeners will hurt the show.

  102. Gatsby,

    About Sansa… We will see. I hope it is good and interesting.

    If LSH kills Brienne in TWOW I expect she will die here, while helping Sansa to escape. She will take Mance’s role.

  103. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
    Ragman’s Harbor,

    I’m just not uncovering anything on this thread, although that doesn’t do much when someone doesn’t use the spoiler code (grrrrrr).

    Oz’s Unullied post is totally safe, though.

    I know! It’s happened to start previous seasons as well and it sucks. As a sullied viewer I’d like to discuss the coming episode with spoilers from the book and not have to pretend to be unsullied in the other thread.

    People that viewed leaked episodes are obviously very impatient people. Coming here and posting actual events in tonight’s episode as well as future episodes proves they’re not only impatient but inconsiderate as well. I don’t care if the spoiler code is used. The thread becomes useless anyway because book readers that don’t want to be spoiled for the episode can hardly discuss anything. People can be defensive all they want about it but it’s not right.

  105. Ive just been reading some comments on IMDB (I know its not the best site and most people are trolls) and most of them seem to think Arya’s story is the worst so far. Can anyone here give me any information on her story? Is it any good? Its the one im most looking forward to so im hoping there are some great scenes involving Arya, Jaqen and the Waif.

  107. Wolfox6,

    I just so seldom sit in front front of the actual tv, and end up staring at the 3 inch screen on my smartphone (makes a lot of sense, I know!) But I’d gladly shell out for the darn option! Ugh. I always buy the dvd sets as well. I don’t need free, I need convenience! Lol.

  108. Jeb,

    Thanks for advice, I rectified it with all lowercase but it still doesn’t seem to show as a spoiler. And in fact, I can’t see a single spoiler tag in this entire page.

    I agree though, leakers are cunts. But I saw no harm in watching one of the eps considering it premieres today and without fail each year I always buy the box set.

  109. Sean C.,

    Sophie has made two statements that I took note of.

    One, was that she would be a prisoner again, but would approach it in a different way. The second, was that she has a traumatic scene this season, and it is a ‘6’ on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the worst. I think it is clear Ramsey will flip at some point, and reveal his true self to Sansa. The question is, just how bad will it be? A ‘6’ isn’t exactly Jeyne Poole/ADWD traumatic, IMO.

  111. I agree with Sean C.

    Sansa is going to get fucked up by Ramsay. Littlefinger not knowing much about Ramsay, Ramsay making an elaborate promise never to hurt Sansa, Ramsay’s actor mentioning he had to psych himself up for some truly sick stuff this year, Roose’s actor mentioning that this year they do some horrible things to some lovely people, etc. etc.

    Also, Sansa has experienced remarkably little hardship or trauma in the first four episodes, and Ramsay hasn’t done anything remarkably depraved on screen in the first four (although his dialogue does allude to flaying). If this is Sansa’s hardest season yet, and if there is a traumatic scene, it has yet to show up in the first four. That suggests some nasty stuff is coming down the pipe, and it’s likely at Ramsay’s hands.

    One thing I noticed:

    We got Pod and Brienne’s backstories from AFFC. Really liked both actors in that scene.

    Also:

    Jodhi May nailed Maggy the Frog. I don’t care that she’s way too young and hot for the role. Knocked it out of the park.

  114. Cathair,

    Hmmm… Try going back to the top of the page and in the same box where it explains the spoiler code, you’ll see “show spoilers” and “hide spoilers” buttons. Maybe you inadvertently clicked on the “show spoilers” button, which is why nothing is covered for you.

    I’m too impatient to get much dusting done, it appears.

  115. I’ll say this, Yohn Royce’s castle is bad ass. Runestone I think it’s called?

  116. mau,

    That’s the thing, though. Theon didn’t really “betray” the Starks, anymore than Sansa betrayed the Lannisters. He was their hostage, at the end of the day, however nice they were about it. He comes to this realization gradually through ACOK, culminating in the scene where he confronts Rodrik Cassel with Beth standing on the battlements with her neck in a noose; Rodrik is outraged, and Theon asks how this is any different from what the Starks did to him, and Rodrik can only sputter that it is. But it isn’t, and Theon only truly realizes it at that point.

    The tragedy of Theon’s life is that he didn’t belong either with the Starks (because however much he wanted it, he was not part of their family, he was a hostage who Ned would execute if it came to it) or with his own family (because living with the Starks changed him, and because his father was a colossal prick). That’s why his central crime in the books is the killing of the miller’s boys, who were true innocents, and why he atones by rescuing Jeyne, who he cares about even though she doesn’t “matter”. Which isn’t to say that he’s not left with a host of conflicted feelings about the Starks. How could he not? They were good to him, within the ambit of the hostage/hostage-taker relationship, and he came to feel friendship for Robb, especially; but he was never one of them. He comes to realize both those things.

    This doesn’t sit well with a lot of people because, well, we like the Starks. They’re good people. They treated Theon pretty well, all things considered. But as he said, the sword was hanging over his head every day of his life there, and once they let him go, he was entirely within his rights to join his people and make war on the people who held him hostage. So if the show makes this all about Sansa forgiving him for siding against the people who took him hostage, well, that’s more than a bit dubious thematically.

  117. Walter Harrow,

    I haven’t seen the episodes, but I wouldn’t worry about it. People complaining about Arya’s storyline seem to think that nothing much has happened yet, which is completely understandable when she’s only been in two episodes and there’s the whole of Faceless Men mythology, the temple, the new characters and Braavos to introduce. I guess some people think that Arya is boring if she doesn’t murder someone in every episode…

  120. Luka Nieto,

    One (non-spoilery) observation about this season: there’s an enormous increase in the use of background scenery and establishing shots.

    I’d previously noticed that this show hardly ever uses establishing shots, and our views of cityscapes, etc. have tended to stick as close to street-level as possible. But there’s way more CGI backdrops this time around, and the expanded scope is palpable. Clearly more money being spent.

  121. Haven’t watched them and don’t intend to… I have a nice little group of people that gathers every week to watch the show together and and I don’t intend to mess with that.

    That said, I took a little peak at a random episode – a minute or two –

    The look that Sansa gives Roose before producing a smile… that’s some serious acting by Sophie, such dark deep void lurking behind her eyes

  122. Sean C.,

    Yes, but you speak about books. I speak about show. Theon in the show recognized Starks as his true family and Ned as his true father. He is ashamed and running from Sansa.

  125. Clob,

    Yes why don’t people who have seen it just pretend they didn’t until tonight. Just as we respect unsullied people in unsullied threads.
    I want to see sullied expectations of the upcoming episode not reactions just yet.

  126. I have watched the episodes. I won’t give anything away, but I’ll say this to all who haven’t seen them: Prepare….Game of Thrones has never been better!

    Honestly, it’s just stunning.

  127. The Family Name,

    Haha okay, not sure if it’ll work but thanks. If I was HBo I would fire the marketing team or at least have a good talk with them. Catch Drogon. Seriously? Seriously.

  128. Luka Nieto,

    We see Stokeworth? I’ve only seen episode 1. I’ve already made up my mind to watch episode 2 but I’m afraid I will end up wanting more!

  129. mau,

    Which, to me, misunderstands his story pretty fundamentally. Particularly as when this story started in season 2 the show actually acknowledged Theon’s anger at being the Starks’ hostage. Reducing it to “Starks good, Theon bad”, as the show seems set to do (and to an extent has already done), sucks the complexity out of it.

  130. Cathair,

    Yeah, I don’t blame people for watching them. If I feel I’m seeing too many spoilerss I will probably have to, but at the moment I am happy to wait. It’s difficult. The uploaader is the only person in the wrong for me.

  131. About Bronn

    I think he will die.

    His marriage attempt with Stokeworth is over. That was his only connection with the rest of the story. He served his purpose.

  132. Luka Nieto:
    Mr Fixit,

    That was an amazing little moment, wasn’t it?

    Absolutely chilling.

    Have you watched BSG? That look reminded me of Commander Fisk’s face when Adm. Cain gives him the order to “terminate Adama’s command, starting with Adama”. Brrrr.

  133. Has there been any comment by HBO on the leak? I wonder what they’ll do. I think they should do a Netflix and release the rest as well to counter.

  136. Jeb:
    The uploaader is the only person in the wrong for me.

    I bet the uploader was George R. R. Martin, seeking revenge. Since the show will spoil his books, he will spoil the show.

  137. I’ve never been in this much of “on edge of my seat-mode” in any TV show. And this season is just gonna get more stressful, buckle up, we’re in for a crazy ride.

  138. So I gave in even though I have HBO and cable. My thoughts with minimal spoilers.

    Loras is fucking hilarious in ep1! I didn’t have high hopes for him but damn his scenes with Cersei are pure gold. In addition I wasn’t expecting the Meereen arc to be so strong. Also great is the North and Stannis, Davos, Jon Snow, and Shireen steal the show. Even Gilly, Selyse, Mel and Sam are on point! Also Sansa has grown incredibly more perceptive which is cool. It was also cool to see Littlefinger think 3 steps in advance. I wasn’t disappointed by the book change as they did a good job explaining it. Also, Roose Bolton freaking nailed all of his scenes. I also found it unintentionally hilarious seeing Ramsay trying to act like a normal human being. Such a sweet boy ;).

    In addition, I think knowing previously about the show only deaths that happen helped me cope with them and really enjoy the scene.

    Final thoughts: all the people who make this show happen should be praised. I would look at the time only to realize that there were only 5 min left of the episode. I now understand why some of the cuts were made. It would be impossible to fit into an hour log episode if they were not. Excellently crafted.

    PS: the sand snakes were good in their short time. That comment about them being B movie bad girls was full of shit.

  139. Luka Nieto,

    Ah, BSG…the last show over which I went full-tilt nerd (and, gawd, I want to uncover that particular spoiler knowing there’s a reference to BSG in there, but I will stay strong 😉 )

  141. Turncloak,

    I also thought the Sand Snakes criticism was a bit overdone. Or, at least, to the extent that they’re campy, it’s inherent in the book concept, not something novel the show is bringing to them (and the book Sand Snakes are definitely campy; they’re basically a Charlie’s Angels-style group).

  143. Sean C.: I bet the uploader was George R. R. Martin, seeking revenge.Since the show will spoil his books, he will spoil the show.

    Or he authorised his plenipotentiary Linda of House Antonsson to cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

  148. Okay, everyone needs to calm down and undo the knots from their pants. So the first four episodes were leaked, people watched them and commented on them here? I’ve read all the spoilers and seriously, there was nothing revealed that wasn’t discussed and conjectured about weeks ago. Basically, if someone doesn’t want to be spoiled don’t go on the internet! Don’t visit websites about Game of Thrones, FFS! Doesn’t anyone have any sense anymore?

    I don’t want to watch the leaked episodes. That’s a personal choice that I would never impose upon someone else. If some people have watched them, fine. If they are available to see, then why shouldn’t they watch them? They haven’t revealed much of anything here, no details about anything in particular, and I certainly don’t take umbrage with anything that’s been posted. To each his own.

    I hope everyone will enjoy tonight’s episode and that things will get back to normal here. Cheers.

  149. I just remembered that scene with Jaime.. looks like he found a new trick using his golden hand! .. you know .. other than waving .. NCW killed it in that scene.

  150. Note: im subscribed to HBO

    I couldnt FU*KI*G help myself

    I tried to be strong…

    I lasted for 5 hours… and then i watched them all i even watched the end credits.. names and all i watched them twice and i felt good.

    F**k it was good ! .. well everything except Arya and Dorne (filler crap) now what i have to wait one fu**ing month for more

    FU*K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    F**K this i want more!!!

    NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

  151. Thinking back on it, there’s just so much more time spent on character development on these episodes than in past seasons.

  152. That uploader is the worst shit in the seven kingdoms.
    No judgment on people who watched, but I won’t be.
    Yes it’s bizarre to read this with spoilers on, but so be it!

  153. Styr me a nice Juicy Slice of Ginger Minge Please: I just remembered that scene with Jaime.. looks like he found a new trick using his golden hand! .. you know .. other than waving .. NCW killed it in that scene

    You know, that sounds kinda kinky. I’d’ve thought the touch of cold metal wouldn’t be particularly conducive… to getting the job done.

  154. Yes, I am weak and watched – a very, very quick watch. But I am, of course, all set to watch on TV at 9 pm and actually savor! 🙂 I was so pleased that

    Jon, Daenerys and Tyrion were all written well, and featured prominently from get-go in Season 5. This is especially welcome after the horrendous material for Daenerys in Season 4, which I gather, is a direct consequence of her material in the books too. Also, my favoritesssst character in the whole series had one scene, and he was pretty spectacular in it…. such a wordless, emotional scene too. Simply awesome
    Also reviews that mentioned the Sand Snakes were B-movie types, have showed themselves up as the biased horsepoop that they are. 😉

  155. If anyone’s looking for a binge alternative to the pirated versions of HBO, I’d highly recommend Daredevil on Netflix. Legit amazing show–the polar opposite of the 2003 movie and I couldn’t put it down.

    Just…. giving alternatives to watching the pirated versions if anyone doesn’t want to fall into the temptation.

  156. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
    Luka Nieto,

    Ah, BSG…the last show over which I went full-tilt nerd (and, gawd, I want to uncover that particular spoiler knowing there’s a reference to BSG in there, but I will stay strong )

    It’s just a BSG spoiler, not a new GoT spoiler or anything. Just comparing the look/moment to one from BSG.

  157. Luka Nieto,

    I agree. It’s just feels so rich and well developed like…the entire time! If you would name all the characters that’ve had great scenes in just these four episodes. well it’s just nearly the entire main ánd supporting cast. As critics said, Stephen Dillane is fantastic, and Kit and Emilia get better every year and are brilliant in this, but I have to especially praise Dean-Charles Chapman, Kerry Ingram, Gwendoline Christie and Ian McElhinney. Stunning performances.

  158. My favorite scene was

    Lyanna Mormont too. It was only a moment but Kit played the sad smile/almost tearing up reaction perfectly.

    I really think Kit’s upped his game (or got better scripts) even more this season. The northern storyline was always lacking for me, but it looks like it’ll really come into its own this year.

  159. Dutch maester,

    Agreed 100%. And what about that foreshadowing, huh? Stannis discussing Ned Stark with Selyse; the story of the tourney at Harrenhal; our first personal insight into Rhaegar. They’re obviously setting the groundwork for a reveal here. Because the books have so much more exposition, they can afford to be more subtle about these kinds of things, but the show can’t. So, when they have these lengthy exposition scenes, you know they mean something. Not that there was any real need to confirm that particular theory, but still.

  160. Luka Nieto,

    Yes, yes. But let’s not discuss the actual content of episodes here (as much as I would love to!!!!). But obvious foreshadowing is obvious, yes.

  162. Luka Nieto:
    Turncloak,

    Wasn’t it exactly the same script? Taken pretty much directly from the books, too.

    Yes it was but the leaked audition used a different actress. The current actress nails the scene

  163. Luka Nieto,

    In what way? The show has always been very character-driven and full of great character moments. I’m not looking for spoilers, but maybe a general comment?

  164. jennyofoldstones,

    So, you’re actually suggesting the regular users of this site who do not want to be spoiled for upcoming episodes avoid the internet altogether? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

    The people who run this site have specifically asked any posts about as of yet unaired episodes be spoiler tagged. It seems like everyone is complying, with the exception of a few honest mistakes.

    You’re welcome to uncover the spoilers and read them to your heart’s content, just as anyone who wants to watched the leaked episodes is free to do so, but pardon those of us who choose to keep the spoilers covered.

  166. Next year, I expect that HBO will only release the 1st episode for early review. The leak must have HBO executives gnashing their teeth with frustration.

    Next up, they need to decide upon a renewal decision for season 7.

    The reviewer, Melissa Maerz of EW that referred to the Sand Snakes disparagingly as “closer to B-movie bad girls than warriors” didn’t have a lot to go on from the 4 review episodes. The show’s made reference to eight Sand Snakes, and I hope to see a few of the others next season. Old Town, White Harbor, and the Iron Born are unlikely to appear this season. Needs more Manderly and Skagos.

  167. Mr Fixit,

    In a way that calls back to the great (mostly invented) character scenes of season 1.

    Luka Nieto,

    ;). Also, one minor thing that makes me happy is that the character Mace Tyrell (who is in all 4 episodes) is now much better written and acted. Big improvement.

  168. Turncloak,

    Oh, of course. Well, that was just an actress auditioning. Obviously not fit for the role. Keisha nailed that short introduction.

    Mr Fixit,

    People talking about their past and motivations at length. Of course, this has always been a staple of the show in one way or another. But these episodes delve into the past more than ever before, and characters have more time to breath, probably as a consequence of adapting the source material more loosely. In particular:

    Stories of infamous tourneys; Brienne on how she met Renly, taken from the books; Barristan telling not one but two stories about Dany’s family. And many other stuff like that.

  169. Mr Fixit,

    Every season is full of great charater moments. But this season almost every character have great momenet in first four episodes.

  170. Luka Nieto,

    Perhaps it’s because I’ve just watched a four-hour movie, but it all just seems to work so much better now, meanwhile largely holding onto the book plot.

  171. Turncloak,

    The leaked Obara audition tape was by Tania Raymonde. Keisha Castle-Hughes worked hard for the part and was cast.

  172. Luka Nieto:
    Turncloak,

    Oh, of course. Well, that was just an actress auditioning. Obviously not fit for the role. Keisha nailed that short introduction.

    Mr Fixit,probably as a consequence of adapting the source material more loosely.

    That was the best decision they made for AFFC and ADWD.

  173. Dutch maester,

    The show is now much better paced than ever before, certainly. It all flows much better. Well, some story lines more than others.

    Arya’s is a bit choppy. Similar to the books, she’s in a different situation at the beginning of each chapter or episode. However, I expected a clearer arc to materialize by 5×04, to be honest.

  174. Dutch maester,

    I watched first 3 season that way. And no, not only this, but every season and almost every show is better when you binge watched them.

    Every season of GoT is made as one 10-hour movie.

  176. Thanks to plans made several weeks ago, I went away on vacation this weekend to a place without access to the Internet. As a result, I had no idea that the episodes had leaked until 10 minutes ago. That’s unfortunate, and will likely result in several heads being mounted on (figurative) pikes – especially if the leaks came from screeners. If I had heard the news earlier in the weekend, I may have given in and watched at least the first one, but at this point, I can easily wait a few hours and watch the episode on the big TV with friends rather than on my laptop alone. I already know what happens in most of the first four episodes anyway thanks to unrelated leaks. I’d like to preserve at least a few surprises for the full glory of HD.

    As for future episodes, we’ll see. The weekly build-up of hype for a new episode is a notable part of what makes Game of Thrones my favorite show on TV. If I burn through a month’s worth of new episodes in a few hours, I may regret it. Of course, I usually watch every episode several times anyway. So … decisions.

  177. Is Arya no longer considered a ‘main’ character by David and Dan?

    Tyrion, Jon, Dany and even Sansa (who I was hoping/expecting to see her have less screentime this year. I like her, but she was heavily featured last season) are featured in all of the first four episodes, yet Arya misses two of them? They always seem to be fine with adding content for other characters but Arya gets pushed to the side (which happened last season as well)? Does this mean that she doesn’t really have a part to play in the ending?

  178. Mat,

    Arya appeared six episodes last season… based on two chapters. If anything, D&D extended Arya’s role… a lot! But I do agree, I hope Arya has much more to do in the latter half of this season.

  179. Luka Nieto,

    I agree. But I sort of also like that

    each episode they reveal just a little bit more of the House of BaW.

    BIG SPOILERY SPECULATION BELOW

    I’m also not that convinced Barristan is dead. If you look closely he’s only really stabbed once, in the belly. And Grey Worm has this “ok he’s alive, so I can faint now” thing. And GW will certainly live.

  180. King DBC,

    HBO’s only statement so far (it’s Sunday, after all) is this:
    “Sadly, it seems the leaked four episodes of the upcoming season of Game of Thrones originated from within a group approved by HBO to receive them. We’re actively assessing how this breach occurred.”

    Oh, and it’s not really official, but this is probably their honest response:

  182. Luka Nieto:
    Mat,

    Arya appeared six episodes last season… based on two chapters. If anything, D&D extended Arya’s role… a lot! But I do agree, I hope Arya has much more to do in the latter half of this season.

    They had no other choice but to add filler for her last season since they decided not to let her progress her story until this season. Sansa, Bran and others moved ahead of their book content and now Sansa has plenty of new content this season after appearing in nine of ten episodes last year. Why couldn’t they do that with Arya? Have her arrive in Braavos in the middle of last season and then add new content for her this season?

  183. Mat,

    Because of what they wanted to do with Brienne, actually meeting Arya. And to make good use of the Arya & the Hound pairing.

  184. Mat,

    I would hardly call Arya “pushed to the side” last season. She had fewer episodes than before, but that’s merely a consequence of the way they chose to structure their adaptation of A Storm of Swords.

    As to this season:

    While Arya’s episode count is starting out lower, I think in terms of actual screentime she’s doing fine. Her two appearances are each more substantial than, say, any one of Sansa’s four appearances (except possibly in episode three, but even then I’m not sure).

    I’d say it’s actually a mark of Arya’s stature that she’s the only one of the three Stark kids whose solo training arc has actually made the show. Bran’s was cut entirely (though there are other reasons for that), while Sansa was shoved into a completely unrelated plot.

    Mat,

    Sansa was not in 9 of 10 episodes last season; she had 7 of 10, one more than Arya.

    As for why they didn’t send her to Braavos midseason, presumably it didn’t align with their preferred structure. Arya’s story is looking to be one of the few that, when we get to season 6, will still be substantially aligned with its book counterpart.

  186. can i just say that the best part of the show is that the dragons finally have names lolol

  187. HelloThere,

    Like I said above, the dragons’ names are literally the most bizarrely delayed exposition in the history of the show. And in a sense, emblematic of the problems with Dany’s characterization for much of the time after season 1.

    A nice scene of her talking to Jorah or Irri early in season 2 about why she’d chosen each of the three names, and what the legacies of each man meant to her, would have done wonders.

    And even if you remove that sort of characterization, literally any time Dany meets someone new was an opportunity to give the dragons names. “Hi Qartheen guys/Missandei/Grey Worm/Barristan/Astapori assholes/Yunkai assholes/Daario/Meereenese people, these are my dragons; their names are…”

  189. Dutch maester,

    I think Grey Worm is still alive, but I’m sure Barristan is dead. He fits, to the letter, the profile of the actor who was expecting to have a bigger role this season only to find his character was dying very quickly.

  190. Mat, Arya’s story was just the opposite of pushed to one side last season. In my opinion, there was too much of wandering around the countryside, as if to fill an “Arya” quota. Sansa’s story in Season 4 was more absorbing.

    Sean C I agree about the problematic writing of Daenerys since 3.04 (I consider her writing in Season 2 to be actually superior compared to the horrendous mess after Astapor, especially in Season 4.) I hope the writing for her and that part of the storyline stays strong from now on. I am a show watcher, but I gather her writing is pretty bad in the books too, after the first book. I hope all that is corrected from now on till the end.

    I actually felt an anticipation of how that storyline will unfold after watching, with Tyrion, Jorah, Varys, converging there – maybe – the problems, the different characters, the dragons.

  191. Mat,

    I completely agree with you, Arya should’ve been on a boat to Braavos before the first half of s4 was over, but for some reason D&D wanted to drag out her storyline with the Hound, even when nothing really happened. I guess it was more important for them to have all the characters heading out of Westeros at the same time. *eyeroll* I guess it could be a budget related reason too, but it’s a shame if as a result of that Arya’s Braavos storyline suffers.

  192. Maelina,

    Arya’s season 4 story was important because it was where they started to really catch the character’s mental state up to where it was at that point in the books. It was also the point where they finally gave the Hound some meaningful characterization/development.

  193. Sean C.,

    I think the Frey stabbing scene in 3×10 already showed where Arya’s mental state has been since the Red Wedding. The inn scene and leaving the Hound for dead scene were the only ones that were really crucial to Arya’s development before leaving for Braavos, in my opinion.

    I agree that the Hound needed to be fleshed out more (because they didn’t do that properly with Sansa in season 2).

    Maybe the Hound will indeed be important in the future since they developed him so much last season.

    Enjoy the episode tonight, everyone! I’ll watch it first thing in the morning!

  194. I think Arya’s story is slow by design. They want the audience to feel Arya’s frustration. I expect her

    conclusion to the season will be her going blind after killing Ser Meryn

  195. Maelina,

    Why does everything need to be about relentlessly driving the plot forward? Is it not good enough that it was great television that made people care about the Hound?

  196. Yivo,

    Well, seeing as it’s Arya’s story arc, if you believe it’s causing her character to stagnate I can see why you would feel that way. I didn’t have a problem with it, but I know some did, and it’s a legitimate position to take.

    Turncloak,

    How Arya’s season will end depends on what her story next year is going to be. If they want to hit the ground running with her TWOW material, or some version of it, I think the blindness is not going to happen. It would be a distraction from the main event.

  197. Hello:

    I have just redesigned the Game of Thrones Wiki front page.

    We will no longer use auto-generated results from an RSS feed – which more often than not were People.com joke-posts about the show.

    Instead we will now have “actual news” hand-picked by the Administrators such as me – most often Westeros.org and WatchersOntheWall.com, as they are the best news sources.

    As punishment for their plagiarism of Game of Thrones Wiki, “Fansided’s Winteriscoming.net” has been blacklisted as a news source on GoTWiki, and it is forbidden to link to it at all, much less appear in the front page news.

    In contrast, I promise you now that at least one link to WatchersOnTheWall.com news will always appear on our front page news section, to direct our readers to this fine news source you have all built with love and hard work.

    The hope of course is that you come to eclipse that other site in raw numbers, and reach or surpass the point the old WiC.net was at the end of Season 3.

    In the meantime, thank you for continuing to read Game of Thrones Wiki.

  199. Yivo,

    I don’t think that way at all, I just don’t really care about the Hound. Arya is my favourite character and I’m extremely nervous that D&D are rushing her FM training because they don’t have enough time for it. Believe me, I’m all for character development, but as there’s only two seasons (probably) after s5 to finish the series, I’d rather they’d have left Arya & the Hound wandering around Westerosi countryside out of the show than do a poor job with her time in Braavos. After all, she’s going to Braavos to find her destiny, according to D&D.

    But, never mind my concerns, I’m probably stressing out for nothing 🙂

  200. The Dragon Demands,

    Axey’s Trial of Benioff and Weiss was so hilarious. I know it’s said they avoid reading internet stuff about the show, these days, but I really hope that video is somehow brought to their attention. I think they’d get a huge kick out of it (I still find myself singing David and Dan are not your bitches…) 🙂

  201. Arya and Sandor’s road trip and bickering was one of the highlights of S4. Rory McCann is a beast and will be missed.

  202. Mr Fixit: Or he authorised his plenipotentiary Linda of House Antonsson to cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

    O Gawd. I bet she’s sitting in front of her cauldron having multiple orgasms.

    And now I need brain bleach. Ewwww

  206. Maelina,

    How much time does Arya need to train? Isn’t a full season enough? I’d say it is, especially when you consider that this was something that GRRM could have dispensed with in a few pages if he’d stuck to the 5-year time jump.

  208. Darkstar,

    I had to go make an offering to the Old Gods and the New to remove that from my mind.

    All better now, so no worries. 🙂

  211. Argh!!!!! Soho NZ ” We’ve run into problems bringing you this episode of Game of Thrones … Tune in at 8:30 Tonight”

    Sob!

  212. You know I never really bought into the concept that a lot of show haters have pushed that GRRM is becoming disenfranchised with the show but I find it odd he has not posted anything about the premiere on his blog today like he has in previous seasons. He has promoted season 5 quite a bit in previous weeks but now he seems to have stopped. There has been a number of reviews bashing his books and praising the show and saying how much better it is for changing plotlines and cutting characters. I wonder if that has pissed him off and caused him to become a little more hostile to the show.

  216. Where the hell is the premiere on HBO Go? I’ve been trying to watch the episode for the past 10 minutes but it still isn’t on there yet

  218. I thought the toppling of he harpy wud make more of an impact in the episode than the trailer but it was quite meh

  219. My country internet is far to slow to load episodes. You are all lucky! I will watch them when I am next in the city.
    Plus I have no clue where to find them.

  220. Daim ghost got big … Hey do we still have to put these as spoilers … I mean the episode is on

  223. Just watched Wars to Come. I’m always amazed at how powerful the TV scenes can be despite already knowing what happens in the books. Truly, some incredible acting/directing.

  225. Pretty good for a season premiere. Not as good as Purple Wedding or Winter is Coming but pretty good.

  229. The episode was definitely slow. A lot of scenes with non-major characters. My favorite scenes were the final one at the Wall, and surprisingly, the ones in Meereen. I thought Emilia did well in her bedchamber scene with Daario. Better than anything she did in season 1. I was expecting more Cersei scenes, tbh. I liked the flashback, the young actress who played Cersei was great.

    Overall, a decent first episode. I would rank the premiers as S4>S1>S2>S3>S5. I’m reassured that the reviews state that each episode gets better.

  231. Oh this was sooo worth waiting for! It definitely was a catch up episode, showing each set of characters (except Arya but I suspect she’s going to have a great deal of time on screen later). The acting, the exposition, the sets and graphics were all as I have experienced over the last four years. Now I can’t wait for next Sunday.

    BTW – I was cringing at the end, hoping that would happen. Glad it did.

  232. I’ve been so busy, I haven’t had time to get properly excited. OMG IT’S HAPPENING. Season FIVE!

    Got my viewing crew, and the scotch/beer/wine ready to go… let the Game begin!

  234. It was really good. It cut to the chase for both Tyrion and Dany. Hopefully there will be no series of terrible decisions going nowhere for Dany, and no long boat trip going nowhere for Tyrion.

    Cersei seems less of a villain. She looked genuinely troubled by her father’s death, and I liked her bringing up Jaime’s guilt for their father’s death.

    I’m glad the show is sending Brienne in the right direction, toward Sansa. Maybe they’ll actually meet.

  235. Really liked the scenes between Mance and Jon. It really makes me wish that they had given Ciaran Hinds more screen time in previous seasons, although I realize that logistically speaking there are just so many characters that we have to take what we get.

    I still just can’t stand the way Sansa/Sophie talks. The petulant child always seems to be lurking in there. Ah well.

  236. Littlefinger’s strategy with Sansa is perfectly within keeping of his character. He’s “hedging his bets.”

    By marrying Sansa to Ramsay, he wins no matter what happens.

    1. Stannis defeats Roose and Ramsay, and makes Sansa Wardenness of the North. Littlefinger and the Vale join up with Stannis. Together, they defy Cersei and Tommen in King’s Landing.

    2. Roose and Ramsay defeat Stannis, and Sansa marries Ramsay. Littlefinger and the Vale join up with Roose and Ramsay. Together, they defy Cersei and Tommen in King’s Landing.

    Either way, Littlefinger ends up on the winning side.

  237. Loved the first four episodes, with one exception (which surprised me). The Sandsnake introduction was terrible. I was imagining a scene akin (in tone) to the Oberyn introduction from last season, where these women walk in, and rage is in their eyes and their stride, but we don’t know exactly who they are or what they are enraged about, until they confront Doran. Instead, we got a rather limp scene of Ellaria reprimanding Doran, followed by a truly odd scene of the Sand Snakes hanging around under a tent and being lukewarmly upset. It was just such a missed opportunity.

    But otherwise, this is just excellent TV. Liking the Arya material the most so far, as the mysticism of it makes up for the lack of Bran, but I also love what’s happening with Varys, Tyrion, Jorah, Daenerys, Selmy, Cersei, etc. Not fully sold on the Sparrows stuff, but Pryce is solid.

  238. Dnis,

    I guess you could be satisfied with that if you’re not an Arya fan, but to me her training is important to see and I love her chapters in Braavos. It would be very disappointing and weird if she just suddenly was a full-trained Faceless Man, especially since people have been so curious about them since Jaqen and season 2. It’s possible (maybe likely) that Arya won’t finish her training so should they have just skipped it altogether and when s6 comes around say that, yeah, she didn’t want to be a FM after all? That would’ve been ridiculously anti-climactic, and bad storytelling. Her training does have a purpose and it’s important that they show it.
    One season isn’t enough for her training, at least if she will finish it. Otherwise it’ll look like anyone can become a Faceless Man without much effort.

  240. Mods: Will there be a post with reviews of the first episode? I’m searching for a couple of the funny ones (in particular for the one written by this unsulied woman, the motto the website she was writting for last year was somthing along the lines of “Don’t judge me” (for watching so much tv) but I can’t find it.

  241. Wimsey,

    Major geek points for the guy. I love his theory. If you subscribe to the idea of

    fAegon being a Blackfyre

    it could maybe even work. Unless I’m missing something due to sleep deprivation.

    Give the man a cookie. Or a book. You know which one.

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