As promotion for the end of Game of Thrones ramps up, we’ll get more interviews in which the ultra-secretive season eight is finally discussed, and that’s just what cast members Emilia Clarke and Kit Harington, along with showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss, did for TV Guide’s Game of Thrones cover story. They open up about the scope of this season as well as what we can expect from Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow—except he isn’t a Snow, is he? And that’s probably going to cause a lot of trouble…
TV Guide’s season eight cover story was published online, albeit in abbreviated form, at TV Insider, where we can find David Benioff remarking that “the scope of this season definitely exceeds anything” they’ve ever done, as well as Kit Harington, Emilia Clarke, and Dan Weiss being quite frank about what will (“would”) happen if and when Jon and Dany learn the truth of his parentage and position in the Targaryen line of succession.
“From a dramatic standpoint, it makes things interesting, because the story is no longer about who Jon’s parents are,” Weiss teases. “It’s about what happens when Jon finds out.”
But what will happen when Jon finds out? Will he keep it to himself and ignore his legacy? Will he be able to guard that terrible secret, as Ned did, not only from the world but from his queen and lover? Kit Harington doesn’t think so, and he would know:
“Jon is someone who plays by the book. He cannot lie,” he says. “Finding out about Dany would be very hard for him.” So it seems he won’t be able to keep it quiet, whether he wants to be king or not. In that case, what would it mean for Daenerys to learn that she’s not first in the line of succession? Or that her lover is her nephew, for that matter?
“Daenerys’s lifelong dream has been to avenge her family and claim her rightful seat on the Iron Throne,” says Clarke. “She truly loves Jon. Were she to find out about his title, it would cut deep.”
For the whole cover story, you’ll have to get TV Guide Magazine‘s 2019 Preview issue!
Hodor!
HODOR MY HODOR, I cannot wait for this final season…. but so mixed emotions about it actually ending *sigh*
Wait, Dany has another nephew and Jon is banging him? As if the whole damn thing wasn’t complicated enough! 😉
FFS give us a date! I’ve built this season up in my head so much at this rate whatever happens I’m going to be dissapointed ❄🐺👑🔥
Jon will have to die for Dany to rule…
And I don’t know why, but I guess he will. That would be bittersweet enough 🙂
More hype about nothing. They are Targeryns and Martin has written them as incestuous throughout their history. I expect once they get over the shock, which given the WW’s are about to invade will take about 1 episode, they’ll be back to making ‘boat-baby’. The constant baby hints last season pretty much guarantee it.
“Will he be able to guard that terrible secret, as Ned did”
This is an interesting idea i never thought of. Honorable Jon, just like Ned, keeping a lie and a secret for what they consider to be the most just cause.
Dany being a Targ, might think this proves their love and her reign that much more since her relatives married each other all the time lol
kathy,
That has been my feeling as well. After reading the books and then watching the series I’ve never felt like the inevitable pairing of Jon and Daenerys was leading to a big ol’ metaphorical explosion for the throne between those two. Quite the opposite in fact because, as I’ve stated numerous times, I believe they’re the spine of story. It’s a telling of what they do together to lead the people and their families through the period. The story already has its usurpers, frauds, crazies… more than enough battling for power. For the show, for the story, Jon finding out who he is will obviously cause some drama, but I don’t believe it will escalate to the levels some do. Throwing out that they’re related, since it matters much less in their fantasy world, if they do truly come to love each other and want to stay together they could be king and queen and the ‘problem’ is solved. yipee.
That’s my thoughts on the matter that I’ll stick to until I see differently…
kathy,
Does Jon having confirmed Targaryen blood suddenly erases his upbringing? I am not sure that is how life works. I know nature vs nurture has been discussed for centuries but I do believe Jon is more of a Stark than he would ever be a Targaryen. Dany who was raised as a Targaryen is likely to accept their familial bonds more easily because she grew up thinking she was destined to marry her own brother, so incest isn’t a negative for her. But Jon grew up as a Stark and as northerner. I mean, Jon grew up without knowing who his mother was so all he sees himself as is a Stark, where as Sansa could think of herself not only as a Stark but as a Tully. For all intent and purposes, incest (exception with first cousins because that is completely accepted in his world) is a big no, no for his people. So yeah, I do expect Jon to react badly, compounded of course by the hundreds of other emotions he will feel about realizing that he indeed grew up knowing nothing about his life. Now, he may at some point come to terms with it because regardless of DNA, Dany is a stranger to him and they knew nothing of their relation which should make it a bit easier to excuse. But Jon not having an initial bad reaction to the news would be very unlike Jon and despite having died and resuscitated, it turns out that Jon Snow is still very much the Jon Snow we’ve known from the beginning.
Clob,
I’m a bit on the fence still, but I basically feel the same way. Though it all depends on where D&D go with the story.
IF Dany and Jon have a baby…a normal baby that’s born healthy…I believe that Jon will initiate a marriage proposal to Dany. Whether she says yes or not is another story, but this all harkens back to season 1 when Jon told Sam why he never slept with Ros. He didn’t want to father another bastard. He knows it’s a crappy way to live in those times. If Dany has a healthy baby with Jon then I fully believe he’ll want to get married for the sake of the child more than anything else.
Like I said, Im still a bit on the fence just because the story can go so many different directions at this point, but I’m currently in the camp that does NOT believe it will be “Team Jon” vs. “Team Dany” in the end.
I fully expect the fickle Northern lords to give in to pettiness. Same with Cersei too, of course, but I don’t expect it from anyone else. We’ll see.
Clob,
The way I see it, the main crux of this issue will reside with Dany feeling threatened about a better claimant. And also, the Northerners simply don’t like Targaryens or Southerners. So perhaps Dany and Jon may be able to salvage their relationship but the effect it’ll have on their respective forces (and Westeros in general) is going to be hard to counter.
Edward,
I think i’d agree with this as well. Once Dany finds out about Jon’s parentage, I think she can only act one of two ways:
* Fire and Blood
* She’ll be upset at first, but once she realizes that she’s not the last Targaryen she may soften her desire to reclaim the IT and be satisfied that there is another Targaryen left in the world. I think a lot of her insistence to rule comes from a desire to feel at home again and reclaim what was lost rather than some need to rule over everyone, but I could be wrong.
Happy New Year, all. And Feliz año nuevo, Luka.
Clob,
I concur–Jon and Dany are the spine of the story, as you said. They will come to an accommodation. I just hope they both survive. I’MO a key theme of books and series to be that in dark times we must put aside our differences and unite against a common enemy. It’s true in real life as well–Churchill was advocating that in the 1930s when only he was truly alarmed by Hitler and fascism. As Ned told Arya, “In the winter, we must protect ourselves, look out for one another.” The Pack did it last year, the Brotherhood did it, Jon did it, having seen what Mance achieved by doing it. And Winter has indeed come.
IMO, in Season 8, with the exception of Cersei et al (including Tyrion IF he is secretly on her team), humanity will unite–kicking and screaming over petty differences–to defeat the True enemy. Sansa may have given Daenerys the evil eye in that S8 snippet, and Jon, Dany, Arya, Sansa, Jaime, the capricious Lords and of course Bran will cope with the multi-dramas of all the heritage revelations. But it shall not prevent them from coalescing into a unified cohort that will presumably defeat the NK and his minions. And Cersei and hers.
Hmm. The fact that they’re openly telling us how they think their characters would react when we’re likely to find it out for ourselves in the first episode makes me think we’re in for some “expectation subversion”.
Otherwise I can’t see them casually revealing how they’re going to react to this bombshell.
This makes me think we either won’t have time to see the fallout of the reveal, because the WW will arrive, or D&D have written an unusual and surprising reaction.
In any case, I worry that with only 6 episodes left, and much of those being dedicated to war and battles, we may not get to see as much of how this reveal would impact their relationship as we’d like to.
Also, premiere date ? Whenever you’re ready HBO.
Nick20,
I think there should be plenty of time for reactions and character moments. Remember, the Blackwater episode? That was only an hour and it was a battle episode, yet the majority of it was centered around character moments and interactions. Same with Hardhome. The actual fighting was only like 15 minutes.
All of the main characters that are still alive are pretty much either going to be in Winterfell or King’s landing for season 8, so there’s less need to share screen time with other locations too.
The only way I can see Jon’s parentage reveal not having much impact is if Jon decides to keep this information to himself, which he’s pretty much incapable of doing. I think he’s too transparent to be able to hide such a reveal.
People who think all this build up and drama only for Dany to say “cool” and move on with it being an equal relationship, need to realize that GRRM won’t have it that simple and the ending won’t be that pure. There’s too much foreshadowing and set up for it to be nothing. GRRM said once a Targ conflict will happen at some point and it wont be that whimpy Griff stuff.
Sam won’t like Dany at all. Varys will side with Jon and try to freeze Dany out, which leads to him getting burned. Tyrion’s disillusion with Dany is no doubt happening imo. The Northern lords hate her. Sansa and Arya will be super wary of her. Bran will push for him to take his destiny.
There’s many things going against her. The show made it clear she’s inspiring and brave, but utterly shit at ruling. The Dragon is too integral to her character.
I don’t think she will go mad. But I do think we will see her dark side fully come out. Jon and Dany defeating the dead, smashing Cersei and ruling together as lovers is about as predictable as it comes, yeah it would be bittersweet due to everyone they lost getting there but that’s the same as every generic fantasy story ever. GRRM is all about deconstructing tropes, he is all about conflict within the heart. Going for that sort of ending is just not him. Plus HBO said it will be a very suprising ending and everyone sees Jon and Dany ruling together a mile away.
The conflict will be devastating. Potential for great drama. I look forward to it if it does happen.
This is the only thing that I would disagree with.
I fully understand that Dany killed Sam’s father and brother. I get it. That’s not a good thing.
However, I think it’s worth noting that Sam was never close to his family and he, just like Jon, considers defeating the AOTD as his main goal. His father was an absolutely horrible human being, particularly to Sam. I think Sam will get over it, tbh.
“On the morning of my eighteenth nameday, my father came to me. ‘You’re almost a man now’, he said, ‘but you’re not worthy of my land and title. Tomorrow, you’re going to take the black, forsake all claim to your inheritance and start north. If you do not,’ he said, ‘then we’ll have a hunt, and somewhere in these woods your horse will stumble, and you’ll be thrown from your saddle to die. Or so I’ll tell your mother. Nothing would please me more.'”
“I thought the Night’s Watch might make a man of you – something resembling a man at least. You managed to stay soft and fat, your nose buried in books, spending your life reading about the achievements of better men. I’ll wager you still can’t sit a horse or wield a sword….”
I could see Sam hating Dany if she killed his mother or sister since he seems to be much closer to them, but his father?
Maybe his brother, but it didn’t seem like he had much of a relationship with him either. Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe Sam will somehow mourn his horrible father and hate Dany. I just don’t see it happening.
Daniela,
While I don’t know what the show will do, the evidence of the books is that avuncular marriage is not considered incestuous in Westeros. There are two such unions in the Stark family tree, in fact (both uncle-niece). So Jon would not consider a relationship with his aunt a problem for that reason.
Such marriages certainly were not all that unusual in the medieval European setting that ASOIAF is inspired by, e.g., the Hapsburgs.
Well we have three months to wait and find out and hopefully a trailer to dissect in the coming days/weeks.
To be honest I’m expecting Jon to find out at the end of episode one and the drama to play out largely in episode two then bang the army of the dead arrive and things need to go on the backburner for a moment. I do wonder if the drama means Dany is not at Winterfell with Drogon when the battle goes down it could certainly explain a lot of things. Could she storm off or leave to find sometime to digest that she isn’t the rightful heir? Could she take it badly and truly become the mad queen that’s been teased?
Yep sums it up perfectly for me.
I don’t get how the show could create a lasting and convincing conflict between Daenerys and Jon after the parentage reveal. Especially for Daenerys to be the instigator. She longed her whole life for a family. It weighs heavily on her that she is the last of her name. And when she found her equal in Jon and fell in love with him, and of top of that found out that he is the long lost son of the brother she’s been idolizing her whole life, she would ruin it over a petty squabble about what: which one of them is the heir? I don’t buy that. That whole situation is so easily (for her, at least) resolved by them getting married. She would have to be mad to reject all that. Jon, on the other hand, would be hit much harder, but he is so focused on saving the mankind that he would sacrifice everything (if marrying Daenerys could be considered a sacrifice at all for him) to keep the unity of the living.
I think the parentage reveal is more about setting up boat-baby as their heir to the IT. I think Jon and Dany are both goners in season 8. Maybe Tyrion and Sansa will be King/Queen Regent until boat-baby comes of age.
Yes, I know. It sounds conventional and this idea apparently upsets a lot of people. I’m not 100% sure this is what will happen, but it seems legit to me. Besides, convention would be defied if the two main characters die.
The show’s been somewhat two-faced when it comes to Dany’s personality. There’s a number of examples that articulate why Dany is nothing like her father, and there’s a number of examples that tease that deep down she’s just like her father. It’s all about what you choose to believe at this point. I choose to believe that Dany is nothing like her father.
Mr Derp,
I would be sad if we indeed had such an ending. It is a bitter ending. Nothing sweet about it.
Milutin,
Sad indeed, but I wouldn’t say there’s nothing sweet about it.
I think the sweet part would come from the sacrifice that Jon and Dany could potentially make. They die, but save Westeros in the process. Dying is bitter, but saving others is sweet.
Breaking news – there will be drama and amazing revelations and also a couple of battles in Season 8!!!!!
Pigeon,
Hey now. Cover your spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dangit, sorry!
Mr Derp,
Yeah, but you forget one thing, that decision of Dany didn’t only effect his father and brother. But even his sister and mother, which he loved dearly. That action of Dany will effect it with them. They would never forgive Sam if he would work with her, one letter from them that he should distance himself and choose his mother and sister, he would.
And don’t forget that the action of her bring his mother and sister in danger, as much as he despised his father, he knew as long as he is alive, they are save from savages and people that tried to harm him.
What if we get a scene where he and Bran receive a letter from the measters, who clearly dispise Dany the way they talked about her last season, they see her as something evil. That letter contained the information about Dany killing his brother and father the way she did. Also containing that letter is the information that another lord of maybe just common folk, attacked the castle of his mother and that his mother and sister were raped and killed. I think D&D will go it that way too spice things up. How would Sam react. Bran could relive that moment and will be horrified when he sees Tyrion trying to keep them alive and she refused.
After that we can have a scene Sam and Bran having a talk with Sansa and Arya about it.
After that Jon and Dany ariving with all the Dotraki. She will have a hard time explaining herself. And how will Jon react to the fact that she burned people alive. And how will Davos react to it his second hand.
And remember the words of Emila Clarke, she hope people will like her character at the end of season 8. If she think we would forgive her previous war crimes, what will she do that we would be so horrified with that we wouldn’t like her anymore? Does she kill Jon, Tyrion? Turning in a Tyrant.
I think Dany will not be a villain in the end, but I can see her turning into a darker side than we saw her. She will do something unforgiven but we will understand the reasoning behind it. She will not walk freely over the edge, she will be pushed over the edge.
This may only be me, but I wonder if others think that the hype machine has sent fan expectations into the stratosphere. Knowing that the show runners only have an outline, I worry that many fans will end up being disappointed no matter how good the show is. I know that the show runners/producers/actors are all very proud of the work that they’ve done, and they have put a huge amount of effort ans $ into it, but other than a few comments about “no one will be completely pleased” or “I am not sure how fans will respond to X“, it’s all pretty over the moon. Or is this just good promotion on HBO’s part?
Milutin,
I tend to agree with you but Just remember her speech when she met Jon: she has survived all these uears because she has defined herself as the one who will rule. Having that taken away from her would set the human heart against itself.
Maybe one of the bigger twist is that in the end it’s Jon and Cercei against Dany. What if episode 2 will end with her storming of and telling that she will burn KL to the ground. After the WW attack Jon could rush to the south and arriving just before Dany. Boat is faster than Walking (she has the Dotraki who will probably go by horse)
Milutin,
Who said it’s the choice of Dany and not Jon’s nearest forcing that choice on him: Us or her. I can name one little sister for which he choose above Dany.
Personally if it will be a happy ending, why is Emilia afraid we are going to hate her character, remember that she told us that she left her house and just walked without thinking because she was in shock and that she hope people will like her character in the end, but she could not tell why.
about point 2. People tend to forget that her father wasn’t mad at first, he was one of the most loving people alive, there are a lot of information about that in the books. And at one point he changed, his madness started. We don’t know what triggered that, is it stress of ruling, is it some kind of depression is it something else, and more important does Dany have that same trigger. We don’t know.
Personally I hope she get a little bit mad, not because I dislike her character, some of the best moments in the show were because of her. But because I want the show to be remembered of one big twist at the end and I like drama, this can lead to so much drama and emotional scenes.
Do you know what I think would be an amazing emotional ending:
– Dany turned mad, burning up half of KL in rage, with a reason we as an audience will understand, and we know Jon and co understand.
– They blamed it on the NK that way her legacy can live on, the people will see her as a hero who died in war against the NK.
– Jon is the one to kill her, he will be devastated by it.
– Only Jon and Co will remember it, the show end with her funeral, and Jon promise to keep this secret, the first secret he could keep to keep the realm safe.
Or a version of this where Arya will take her place, and we have a nice small funeral for her.
hahahahaha. And don’t forget. Season 8 will contain dragons and boobs.
Did you know this is the first time I find out your nickname is a name of a bird.
David A.,
If they agree to marry and rule together, she gets everything she ever wanted. I just don’t see the potential for conflict there.
David A.,
Oh, my sweet summer child, what do you know of endings?
Endings is about the winter, my little lord, when the snows fall a hundred feet deep and the ice wind comes howling out of the north. the ending is about the long night, when the sun hides its face for years at a time, and little children are born and live and die all in darkness while the direwolves grow gaunt and hungry, and the white walkers move through the woods.
three months from now, there comes a night that lasted a generation (or 6 episodes). Kings froze to death in their castles, same as the shepherds in their huts. And women smothered their babies rather than see them starve, and wept, and felt the tears freeze on their cheeks.
In that darkness, the white walkers come. They are cold things, dead things, that hated iron and fire and the touch of the sun, and every creature with hot blood in its veins. They sweep over holdfasts and cities and kingdoms, felled heroes and armies by the score, riding their pale dead horses and leading hosts of the slain. All the swords of men could not stay their advance, and even maidens and suckling babes found no pity in them. They hunted the maids through frozen forests with Ice spiders big as hounds, and fed their dead servants on the flesh of human children.
So, child. This is the sort of ending you like?
(Sorry couldn’t resists quoting Nans story)
kevin1989,
😂😂😂 🍻
Milutin,
It’s not Jon and Dany who are going to fight about the claim, I’m sure Jon would to become and remain Queen of Westeros. The problem is the rest of the people. The Unsullied and Dothraki will support Dany, but they are foreigners in Westeros and might be wiped out by the army of the dead. Her allies from Westeros are all wiped out (Tyrells, Martells, Ironborn). The North, The Vale and The Riverlands will support Jon or Sansa. The Wildlings will support Jon. The remaining people will support Jon/Sansa or Cersei/Euron. None of them have reason to support Dany. Dany cannot hold the Iron Throne without enough supporters, which will create problems for her.
A thought for consideration.
As in most big finales it is rumoured that several endings have been filmed so as to keep the actual ending secret.
What if that wasn’t all? What if the ending becomes a ‘choose your own ending’ as Blackmirror did? (Note that I don’t think this will actually happen)
How do you think this would go down with viewers??
I don’t see D&D going this way at all. Randyll Tarly wouldn’t be home anyway even if he was still alive. He’d be out in battle or leading his army, so the notion that his absence will get his wife and daughter killed is off-base, IMO. I really don’t think Randyll will be that missed anyway, but that’s just my opinion.
kevin1989,
I would like this sort of ending (winterchild that I am).
With a little hope in it.
For example: Arya and other survivers (put there your and my favorite characters) leave in darkness sunken Westeros and sail west, looking for the sun and to find out, what’s behind the horizon – first men on the other side of planetos…
Wouldn’t that be… uhm… ah… dzzz… the word, formerly known as bittersweet?
He’ll go by society’s rules and say, “Nope, I’m king. But you can still be queen. My queen, but that counts, right?”
At which point Dany will say, “No, no it doesn’t. I AM QUEEN OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS haven’t you been watching this show?”
DRAMA ENSUES during which my boy Jorah probably meets his end at the point of his own family’s sword.
THUS I HAVE PREDICTED.
Ack! You can’t just
It’s way too much of a plot reveal! 😳
The idea that dany will somehow feel threatened with Jon’s parentage or claim is unthinkable for me…
All her life she is longing for a family..maybe she would have been hesitating to embrace someone else as rhaegar son…she would have doubted if someone else who was unknown to her made the claim …
But since jon being Jon and her loving him and dogon letting jon pat will all be a factor…
Dany will only be happy to hear about the news …that’s what the dany who we have read in the books will do..
The important thing about the reveal is how jon will take it and how will North and Starks react ..
Dany doesn’t have anything to fear because she still holds the place as a representative of her house with her dragons and her own army ..
KG,
Ooh, that would be a sad ending for Jorah 😬
cos alpha,
I could live with that
But what if it’s just Cersei, the Mt., & Qyburn that survive to sail West? 😬
Gutwrenching
Hehehe – Is that so? I would never have believed it 😉 😛
If you want to read/have the issue but don’t want the physical copy, check to see if your local library subscribes to Zinio digital magazines and includes TV Guide.
ON full read, skip the GoT article. WIC posted most of it and what’s left out isn’t much but ore surface recap. The real news in the issue is seeing a picture of Tobias “Edmure Tully” Menzies as Prince Phillip in The Crown season 3. Seems he escaped the Frey sungeon after all.
On the one hand Jon has a legitimate birthright to the throne now, but he as a character has been a reluctant leader. In that way he is not just Ned’s son but also Rhaegar’s. He will try to do what is right, and he does not have Dany’s rashness. He is only in the story now to end this saga, and perhaps get to finally rest in peace at the end of it if he makes it to the end. He is essentially a dead man walking. Dany will definitely feel cheated of her birthright, but now she knows how vulnerable her dragons are. She can just unleash the remaining 2 on Jon and his supporters, but in the end she will have nothing to rule over. By the end of the story, Jon and Dany will have worked together to save the realm from the Others, defeated Cercei, Dany will have turned against Jon. Both of them or Jon will be gone by the end, so will the dragons and some other system entirely than a monarchy will end up ruling over the charred remains of Westeros. There will be a lot of carnage in the last season, WWI style, and the shocked survivors will want something else. A weird mix of Tolkien and real world outcomes, GRRM style. At least I’m hoping for something similar
Jon becoming queen? That will be a huge plottwist next season. And I hope the people of westeros are ready for a transgender queen.
Him being alive is enough. They don’t dare crossing him in the fear he will get his army back home. Same with casterly rock. As long as tywin was alive nobody dare to attack it.
But even the notion of her burning people alive is enough. The claim of her being like her father is enough even if it’s not the same. The measters don’t like her and they have a huge influence. Same as for cercei. If she would find out she could use that information. She would send it to every castle. To Sansa to make some drama. And tell the common people.
cos alpha,
Sounds perfect to me.
I always remember the words of ramsay: if you think this is going to have an happy ending. You having been paying attention.
Dragonbringer,
That’s why most people who think if dany becomes “mad” it’s not her fault or choice. She will be pushed by others. I can see that everybody she care and fought for is death or dispise her. She is alone. The common folk in kl are making clear they don’t want her. In her emotion she reacts. At the same time she reacts she is crying her eyes out. We know we need to stop her but we rather not to.
And more important. The people who are responsible are the people of the north the people we supported since season 1. And Jon will have a huge burden on his shoulders. Because he was the tie breaker.
But we don’t know what will happen. Lots of theories making sense. Her becoming a white walker. Night queen. Her and Jon both burning people in Kingslanding because they try to stop them from. Becoming wights. Her sacrificing someone to stop the white walkers.
And maybe the dotraki are going on a killing spree or rape spree. I never trusted that leader last season.
Wasn’t in the books a moment when bran was entering the weirwood network where he saw a flash of a man tied to a tree, an a woman with silver hair with a dotraki blade killed that man. What if it’s dany and maybe jorah. Couldn’t be Jon because bran didn’t recognize the man.
As far as I remember they weirwood could see past present and future.
Daniela,
I see where you are coming from and you bring up good points but with the AOTD on their doorstep I don’t think any misgivings will last long. If anything people tend to live for the moment when war is upon them. Jon will get over the ‘aunt’ thing quickly especially if she’s pregnant, he won’t allow his child to be born a bastard. A marriage between Jon and Dany would unite the North and South – just like the War of Roses that Martin based this series heavily on. Jon is still a Stark through his mother and the Northern lords chose him to be their leader. Quite frankly they won’t have much to rule over once the AOTD decimates everything so I don’t think the few survivors are really going to care ‘who’ rules and if they are related to each other. They’ll likely be grateful it’s all over and thankful to whomever saves them. With only 6 episodes left there isn’t enough time for a lot of ongoing drama, I suspect it will be short-lived as will the lives of those Northern lords that may initially oppose Dany. There has to be a reason they hinted so heavily about Dany being pregnant – that child will somehow be important to the end game otherwise why bother with another pregnancy when you already have a pregnant Cersei in the South.
MaesterMercy,
Yes, it sure would. I’m thinking he will likely be the first Big Drama Death. 🙁
Jaime and/or Brienne will be the last.
MaesterMercy,
… but good for Westeros and it’s remaining breathings!
;o)
The Wolves of Winter,
Even after all these years, I still mix up possessive pronouns, sometimes. In Spanish the possesive pronous “his”, “her” and “their” are a single word, “su”. English is tricky. Thanks, though. I fixed it 😉
Tormund Targaryen! I knew there was a reason his first concern after Jon’s resurrection was his p*cker.
“Daenerys’s lifelong dream has been to avenge her family and claim her rightful seat on the Iron Throne,” says Clarke. “She truly loves Jon. Were she to find out about his title, it would cut deep.”
———
Wait a second. I thought her dream was to “break the wheel”, and stop the cycle of vengeance whereby noble houses constantly fight to be on top while regular folks get crushed underneath it.
When did avenging her family enter into the equation? She barely knew about Rhaegar until Jorah and Barristan shared little anecdotes about him. She accepted that her father was looney tunes. She sat back with her bag of popcorn while Aquaman – I mean Khal Drogo – boiled Visery’s brain with molten gold. Strangely enough, I don’t think she’s ever said anything about avenging the deaths of her niece and nephew by the Mountain: Oberyn was the one who longed for vengeance for those murders.
I’m not a Danyphobe. Honestly. It just seems that instead of breaking the wheel, she’s given it a mighty spin. I wonder how many Tyrell florists, Martell partisans, drowned, tongueless Greyjoys with awful raincoats, teenaged Lannister conscripts, and innocent civilians have perished because Dany decided to invade? How many more will starve to death now that there are warring armies all over the place, with the food they counted on for sustenance reduced to ashes by Dany’s pyromaniacal wagon train incineration?
I thought breaking the wheel was to stop noble families from launching civil wars that disproportionately impoverished and slaughtered the “smallfolk.” I thought that was Dany’s dream. If it’s just to avenge family members killed decades earlier, she’s no different than prior rulers – just “more of the same.” (Oh boy… if firebug Kinvara and her infidel-purifying plans are implemented, that’ll be another few thousand innocent people dying agonizing deaths with Dany’s unwitting complicity.
One other thing: Dany’s desire to claim her “rightful seat on the Iron Throne” has been predicated on her understanding that she is the last Targaryen. Would it be so disheartening to learn that Prince Rhaegar did leave an heir? If Dany wants to reestablish the Targaryen family, she shouldn’t be too upset. However, if her ambition was to be supreme ruler because for as-yet undisclosed reasons she assumes she will make life better for everyone, then maybe there ought to have been a plan in place before setting sail. Because from what I’ve seen on the show, the Mad King’s daughter won’t be greeted by the Welcome Wagon in her new neighborhood. It’s more likely someone’s going to relish the notoriety of taking out the silver-haired invader, just like ex-fugitive Whitney Bolger didn’t last long after his conviction before a glory-seeking fellow inmate shanked him to death. (Jorah already warned her that there are plenty of Northerners who suffered at the hands of the Mad King and would love nothing more than to kill his offspring.)
Would it be so terrible if she showed a little decorum and respect for traditional rules of succession? Or recognized that by all rights Jon has a superior claim and no malicious motives?
After all, didn’t Maester Aemon step aside and disclaim his right of succession for the good of his family?
Over seven seasons, it seems that people who are preoccupied with being the Queen or the King wind up poisoned, blown up, exsanguinated, backstabbed, assassinated by ambitious relatives, or roasted by competing monarchs. Those who don’t aspire to rule (like Jon) would probably make better leaders.
Better yet, those who have lived among and experienced the deprivations of the common folk have developed the empathy and compassion to be exemplary leaders. Which is why I say…
All Hail Queen Arya. Long May She Reign!👸🏻(Just don’t call her “Your Grace” or she’ll probably deck you.)
Not sure if this will be posted since it’s not GoT related but it is Kit related!
“If it grows on a tree, it must be tea.”
https://www.omaze.com/experiences/kit-harington-true-west-vip?ref=kit
will Jon turn against Dany when he gets to know about his right to sit on the Iron Throne? in my opinion absolutely NO, if the show combines some hung guns. they are both to be fired by Bran, and the scene needs at least Jon, Dany, Bran and… Jamie. Arya and Sansa would be nice additions.
Bran: “Jon, your grace: do you love each other?”
Jonaerys, both: “uh, what?”
Bran: “i’m just asking because actually, you’re aunt and nephew. you are the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, Jon.”
(sound of dropping jaws)
Bran: “you are the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.”
Jon: “i just bent the knee to Danaerys. i lost a potential ally by doing so.”
Jamie: “my sister…”
Bran: “exactly. tell Jon about the things we do for love, Sir Jamie! he might learn that there are far more incestual relationships causing far more trouble than a Targaryen marrying his Targaryen aunt.”
In my view, the revelation of Jon’s legitimacy really has two forms of dramatic impact:
1) Obviously on Jon’s personal understanding of himself, and how others (such as his siblings-now-cousins) regard him.
2) On Dany’s longstanding self-conception of herself as both the Last Targaryen and the rightful heir to the throne.
One area that I really struggle to see, though, is the idea that Jon’s status as the “rightful heir” will have a huge impact independent of what Dany thinks of this new reality, simply because we’ve now had several seasons where it was shown pretty strongly that nobody in Westeros cares about that kind of thing in the least:
– Cersei has no claim whatsoever to be queen of Westeros beyond that she parked her ass in the Iron Throne once Tommen jumped, but nobody cares (at least in that respect; people who were going to oppose the Lannisters anyway remain opposed to her on that basis);
– Ellaria established herself as unchallenged ruler of Dorne with no blood claim whatsoever to that office and despite being a bastard;
– Jon himself was proclaimed King in the North despite that the actual legal heir was sitting right beside him at the time*, with no explanation for why; and
* Dany herself being thought the true heir rallied approximately nobody to her cause in Season 7.
* the rightful heir was properly Bran, of course, but he wasn’t there and nobody brought it up.
With all that in mind, the idea that Jon being revealed as Rhaegar’s legitimate son will suddenly trigger an irresistible groundswell of support from around the realm that he should be king strains credulity.
Robb Stark was planning on attacking Casterly Rock when Tywin was alive, but the Red Wedding sort of got in the way 🙂
I think there’s a big different between Robb stark, one with a huge army, with allies in the neighborhood than what the Tarly’s need to fear. I don’t think that for instance the Tully’s dared to attack when they were on their own.
I mean that the Tarly’s are vulnerable now for every kind attack. 2 cuttroats didn’t dare to attack before because they were afraid Randall would get revenge, now they dare. A smaller lord with a small army who didn’t dare to attack before dare it now. Yes a big army like that of Dany or Robb they dare to attack no matter what.
Jon’s true parentage has to change something, otherwise it’s a redundant revelation.
I don’t understand why anybody would want or expect it to have little to no impact.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
Yes, I’m with you, Good Man. They built it up from S1 on, again and again the bastard-theme, culminating in a way, when Ramsay-ex-Snow called Jon a bastard.
The Northern lords announced Jon as king, only because he was presumed to be Ned’s son.
Don’t forget, the tv-series is called “Game of Thrones”.
And for bookreaders: there are songs, that don’t end with a harmonic accord, but aprubt and/or in dissonance.
These are not the worst.
Sean C.,
If I were Jon, I’d be wondering “what the f*ck were my parents thinking!” And how could they leave Ned holding the bag (me)?”
Yeah, “Promise me Ned. Promise me you’ll f*ck up your own marriage, tarnish your own image as Mr. Honorable, hoodwink your best friend, threaten Cersei for harboring cuckolded Robert’s fake children while harboring a fake child of your own, letting that innocent child grow up thinking he’s a slut’s kid while concealing his birthright…
What kind of parents would do that to loyal, upright Ned Stark? Was my mom a star-struck groupie who got knocked up by s sleazy musician who promptly ran off and got his chest crushed in?”
BTW – R’s 20th GM: The prudent course of action would be to keep the secret a secret – which is why it definitely will be revealed. Who could resist the allure of multiple intersecting sh*tstorms to cap off an 8-year show?
Now all I can see in my head is Vanna Targaryen spinning a wheel…
I very rarely disagree with you, but I would say no. Aemon stepped aside and disclaimed his right of succession the day he set sail for the Wall, and he took his vows so seriously he remained there through rebellion, war, and the destruction of his family.
kathy,
“There has to be a reason they hinted so heavily about Dany being pregnant – that child will somehow be important to the end game otherwise why bother with another pregnancy when you already have a pregnant Cersei in the South.”
……………
Am I the only one who’s convinced that if Euron returns and is still hanging around KL in the first few episodes, there’s no way in the world he lets Cersei’s alleged baby come to term?
The whole idea of marrying the Queen is so your heirs rule one day, not some other guy’s kid. Why wouid wacko Euron want to be step-dad to a Lannister incest bastard? I mean, PsychoRamsey didn’t let Roose Jr. live longer than a day. I can only imagine what Euron has in store for Baby Tyvek.
PS Wouldn’t a live birth – a fourth child for Cersei – also defeat Maggy the F’s predictions?
Fair enough. My memory is hazy. I’ll have to go back and watch the scene(s) when Aemon explains his reasoning for refusing the crown in favor of his younger brother. Unless it’s a book-only explanation, in which case I shall confess continuing ignorance.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
I can’t wait to see how the revelation is handled, and how it’ll be presented in such a way as to be unarguable. After all, I expect not everyone will be on board with simply taking the WeirGoogle at his word, or even the book from the Citadel. O Howland, will we see you at last?
Ten Bears,
In the show he doesn’t explain why he refused the crown in favor of Aegon, only why he remained at the Wall when the s*** hit the fan.
Ten Bears,
What if the baby is a stillborn, turning into a wight. He could be the Volanqor, not the brother of her but the brother of her children.
Only 3 months to go and were in April. We’re very close.
Little bit strange, in April Winter is done in real life, and winter just started on screen.
I read the interview again, and on multiple sites and something I found very interesting:
D&D stated that the story is about what will happen after Dany and Jon find out about Jon’s parenting. This made me think this will be huge, the main focus of the season is that. Not fighting the White walkers or Cercei but what will happen when those 2 find out. For me it can’t be something small as everything will be fine, Dany accepts etc. If it’s the story, its the biggest thing of the season.
And I read a statement that when they found out it have a deep impact of episodes to come. Episodes to come doesn’t sound it will be resolved in just 1 or 2 episodes.
I read many comments about Dany wanting a family and that’s her main goal, but even in interviews Emilia only talk about that Dany fought for her rightfull place on the throne, and revenge. She never talked about that she longed for family.
I think many people are underestimated how important this will be in the last season. The more I read of it the more I’m convinced Dany isn’t going to take this lightly.
I still hope it will a be blown out of proportion by D&D and Emilia and Kit. But I think we need to prepare ourself.
ps. If there will be a clash between the two Targ lovers, who do you think Jaime will side with. On one side I would think Jon because he’s the rightful air, and it would be redemption for what happen with Ned. On the other side I would think Dany because redemption of what happened to her family. Or will he be more like a dr phil.
Jaime: Dany don’t overreact, even if he is the true heir, I really think he still loves you.
Dany looking at Jon a little warmth came across her face.
Jaime: And Jon, maybe be a little bit more understanding about how she feel. Make her feel she still is worth the same as when you were still a Snow.
Jon: You got a point there.
Jaime: Give each other a big hug, and lets move on to important things. King Ice Popsicle is on his way.
Jon and Dany together: I’m sorry honey
Dany could have had a family/home at multiple points before she arrived at Westeros. Family is people not a place. The Starks will likely lose their home again, but they will still have their family.
She had people who love her in Essos. She didnt want to live there, but as soon as she started to change their society she owes it to them to stay.
I feel like her belief that she would find home in Westeros has always been written in the most fantastical way in the books. I mean she thinks that Westeros is a magical place where knights go on quests in Book 5? Those book of stories Jorah gave her and Viserys’ tales are all she knows. I think she’s in for a rude awakening and won’t find her epic love story – or even her family – there. She’s in fantasy mode. Reality will kick in.
I’m intrigued by the idea that the fans have wildly different interpretations of what “Dany’s dream” is. I think that we might be missing some aspect of her evolution in future books where she hardens herself to conquering and views emotions as a sign of weakness. If she wants to conquer she knows she has to desensitize herself completely, and I think that’s why she’s evolving to care less about people’s feelings, including her own. The way she broke up with Daario was stone cold and is a clue to her development IMO.
Don’t largely disagree although do think Dany being a villain is realistic, one minor spoiler which will change what you wrote and was reported by this site
.
i fully expect all the dragons to be dead come the end of the story but could see Jon having one before the end of the story especially if it becomes humans vs Nights King or Dany to save Kings Landing.
Jon dying to allow Dany to rule makes zero sense given the narratitive, far more likely that Dany dies or they both die in my opinion. I just don’t see Dany ruling in the end.
Tyrian is also a Targaryan by the way… Think about it.
David A.,
You are not alone.
Ramping up the promotion is keyword here. For month no one told anything. Kit Harington even said in an interview that he doesn’t discuss season 8 at all, because anything he says will be blown up out of Proportion. And now all of a sudden, they start to discuss plot points and storyline? I don’t think so.
It’s also wrong what they say. Jon is able to lie as was shown during his time with the Free Folk and Ygritte. He doesn’t like it. He doesn’t do it, if it’s not necessary or “lies won’t help us in this fight” as he pointed out so correctly after he told Cersei the truth about his allegiance with Dany. But if it is necessary and if it is better for the greater cause, he is able to lie and he will do it. So the timing for the huge revelation will be crucial.
The same applies for Dany. Revenge and getting the throne back wasn’t her “lifelong goal”. She just took it up, after Viserys died, after her son and Drogo died, because there was nothing else left for her. Nevertheless being NOT the last Targaryen as she always thought will have an effect on her. Considering how lonely she always felt due to that, it will be interesting to see how she takes the news that there is one other left. Fittingly, one she fell in love with already. My guess is, she will not take it half as negative as Emilia Clarke is putting it here.
So, the more interesting part in all this talk is – as usual – what they are NOT speaking about, which – at least for me – are the more crucial points. And that would be:
a) Cersei’s betrayal and how this will affect Tyrion who kind of put his reputation on his sister’s agreement to their deal.
b) The fact that the Night King is riding on a big dragon, raised from the dead, basically taken as slave, spitting blue magic flames and that he and his army destroyed the wall and are now roaming free in Westeros. How will they react and interact to this “newsbomb”?
Do you know which quote I though of today when thinking of GoT. One of the Dark Knight: you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
And I think it’s something that’s could refer to GoT also. When is fighting for the greater good and taking small “evil deeds” to get it done (burning people alive etc) change you into a darker person.
kevin1989,
“King Ice Popsicle is on his way.”
———–
Congratulations! Now you’ve done it! Inspired the first selection in this year’s NK song compilation (e.g., “Love Songs for a Long Night”).
Track #1: “Popsicles, Icicles” by the Murmaids ft. Lord Varys
Johanna van Locchum,
Convincing. Likely they are teasing some cool bits but not the shockers. So maybe:
Episode 1: Jon finds out at the end of the episode about his parentage.
Episode 2: Drama with Daenerys, incl. with preggers reveal. Then the dead show up.
Episode 3: Under the threat of death, both Dany and Jon both come to terms with it all and come around to be obvi. Of course, this might not get fully resolved until 4 or beyond depending on the outcome of 3.
Agree mostly. The reveal to Jon would be a perfect ending for episode 1; I can even imagine that they do something similar to his revival: Bran and Sam approach him at the end of episode 1: “Hey Jon, we have to tell you something.” And in the beginning of episode 2 they show his reaction to this revelation and how he is dealing with it.
For the rest, I am pretty much in the dark, but that’s the fascinating thing about this series. It can go in so many directions.
Although I can’t get Tyrion out of my head. When he asked Jon at the dragon pit: “Have you ever considered learning how to lie every now and then, just a bit?” this sounded like a piece of foreshadowing for me. As I said, Jon is able to lie, if it serves the greater cause. And what greater cause could there be, to make sure there is no rift between him and the mother of dragons, who is still the best hope they have against the AoD. Especially if you take in consideration the other grim news they must have heard by now, that the NK raised Viserion. She must be devastated and I can’t imagine Jon being so cruel in this moment to walk in there and say to the woman he loves: Hey darling, you know what, you are not the last Targaryen either. AND your claim to the Iron Throne is NOT the biggest one in Westeros…
Especially because I don’t think this claim would mean a damn thing to him anyway. So, yes, I think Jon will learn how to lie in season 8 and not tell anyone.
Which means of course, that there will be drama over this in the end, when Sam spills the beans. Yes, I’m sticking my head out now and say it out loud. I think Sam will be the one. In his integrity and loyalty to Jon he will tell. He made Jon’s life more miserable so far, he won’t stop in the last season.
Did he? In which way?
New footage!
https://twitter.com/gameofthrones/status/1082097515196006401?s=21
Johanna van Locchum,
Interesting. Perhaps the Tarly BBQ is the set up for Sam losing it when he hears about it and blurting out to her that Daenerys is not even the rightful heir to the iron throne. Then not only Is she discomforted because she is not who she thought she was, but also because Jon did not trust her with the truth (she feels “betrayed”).
Exactly my presumption! I guess he won’t have a problem with the death of his father or him being executed, but I can imagine that Sam might have a problem with them being burned alive by a dragon, just like Tyrion and Varys.
cos alpha,
I confess the expression might be a bit exaggerated 😉
But Sam contributed in a lot of ways to the “not so funny” experiences Jon had or will have.
In Season 2 Sam supported Jon’s wish to join Qorin Halfhand, he even volunteered to take up Jon’s tasks. This led of course to Jon’s meeting with Ygritte, which led to the killing of Qorin. The look on Jon’s face after he did this will haunt me forever… (and kudos to Kit Harington for it!)
He led Bran through the wall up north, helped him, becoming the three eyed raven, which enabled Bran to discover the truth. As I said before: I don’t think Jon will be a happy camper about this revelation.
In season 4 during the battle for the wall, he is telling Olly to grab a bow and fight, and we all know how this ended! (Kudos to Dave Hill for this brilliant idea!)
In season 5 he got Jon voted for Lord Commander, which enabled Jon to do, what he thought was right, and getting murdered for it. Sam even reinforced Olly in his decision to team up with the traitors. Unwillingly and unknowingly, but nevertheless, his little speech to Olly about doing the right thing and sticking to the decisions one has taken, was not helping in this case.
And then he left Jon alone at the wall, kind of making “room” for the betrayal…
Don’t get me wrong here: I love Sam. I love how John Bradley is portraying him. He is definitely one of the good guys and I root for him as much as for all the other “good” guys. But as the saying goes: The road to hell is paved with good intentions. And Sam has a bundle of good intentions.
He is a good, a loyal friend to Jon (although to be fair: with supporting Jon, he is serving his interests as well) and he would never ever betray Jon willingly and knowingly, but this makes his part even more tragic. He kind of is the oil to Jon’s plot engine, so to speak, just like Ned was for everybody else, so yes, I think, he might mess it up in the end…
Johanna van Locchum,
Thank You, I can follow Your thoughts :o)
David A,
Exactly my presumption! I guess he won’t have a problem with the death of his father or him being executed, but I can imagine that Sam might have a problem with them being burned alive by a dragon, just like Tyrion and Varys.
Johanna van Locchum,
By the way, has anyone ever explained a rationale for why Randyll Tarly did not agree to take the black? I know what he said but seems like if he agreed it would have made dickon’s sacrifice less likely, making the rationale for that storyline being the very scenario (Sam blurting out jon’s parentage to daenerys) we are describing.
David A,
“seems like if he agreed it would have made dickon’s sacrifice less likely”
Which is exactly the reason why he was never likely to win the “father of the year”-award in any case. Every father would have tried everything to save his son, he was just glad, that the son he chose as his heir was – at least in his eyes – made of the same cloth. And as I took it, he was also glad that he didn’t have to face the dragon fire alone. To allow Dickon defying Dany as well and being executed for it, was for me one of the most selfish, cowardly actions in the whole series and showed perfectly what a ghastly prick he was.
As for your question: I think the explanation he gave was quite rational, at least from his point of view. He didn’t accepted Daenerys as his queen, so she was not in the position to give him orders. Telling her that straight to her face was maybe foolish, he could have lied and then defy her orders later, which is why Tyrion’s suggestion was kind of iffy in the first place, but at least he was honest. As I see it, blinded by his own righteousness and what he would have considered honour. At least that’s similar to how James Faulkner saw it and told it in a “behind the scenes”-vid: He described Randyll as a stoic, as someone who made his decision and stood by it, despite the consequences. For me it mirrored Alliser Thorne’s last words: “I fought. I lost. Now I rest.”