The final season of Game of Thrones remains in production and will continue for a little while longer, but it stands to reason some cast members may already be done with their parts at this point. This is not the case for Emilia Clarke … but it is for Daenerys!
In this month’s Vanity Fair cover story, Joanna Robinson interviews Emilia Clarke (with occasional additional remarks by Kit Harington, Rose Leslie, Dan Weiss, David Benioff and others) about her life and career before and after Game of Thrones, as well as, of course, the blockbuster Solo: A Star Wars Story, in which she stars as Qi’Ra (she is also surprisingly candid about the disastrous experience of filming Terminator: Genisys.)
Here we are all about Thrones, however, and thankfully she did reveal a few things: she’s already shot Dany’s “final on-screen moments.” In her own words, “it fucked me up. Knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what Daenerys is…”
Damn. That may not be a spoiler but I’m sure it will give birth to hundreds of wild theories about what she could possibly mean. Am I crazy or is she saying her character’s final moments in the show may be quite controversial? Whatever she means, I believe it must be made clear Clarke is not done with season eight. She did film Dany’s last scene, as the show is never shot chronologically, but it’s likely Clarke will be around until the end of production, given her character’s importance and usual screen time.
And what will what screen time consist of? Believe it not, she offers a few tidbits. While discussing the difficulty of infusing the serious Daenerys with Clarke’s own light-hearted humor, she implies we shouldn’t expect much of that in season eight. More than that, she says she’s “doing all this weird shit. You’ll know what I mean when you see it.”
The interview also confirms something we knew had to happen, given where Jon and Dany were heading last we saw them, but it’s still nice to know for sure: she’s “shooting for the first time with several of the show’s top stars, including Sophie Turner and Maisie Williams.” I don’t know about you, but I’m looking forward to that encounter!
Clarke also discusses pay parity; her journal of her experiences in this final season that we may one day get to read; and much more. However, for that you should really read the cover story at Vanity Fair, wonderfully written by friend of the site (and Con of Thrones special guest!) Joanna Robinson. Seriously: give it a read! It’s a great piece.
Is it 2019 yet?
Sounds like Danaerys, astride Drogon, will snatch up the Night King and fly into Mt. Doom screaming “Yippekayay MFs!!!”
What a memorable end to a memorable character.
WOW. (Sorry… I can’t think of anything wittier right now.) Thank you for the heads-up, Luka! And… I’m really looking forward to meeting you and the other Watchers at Con!!!
Ooooh, those are words that will literally be picked apart piece by piece here.
It kinda corresponded to other comments she’d made (that we’d mostly disregarded), such as the fact she believed they’re shooting multiple endings as her scenes didn’t make sense.
Could it mean:
1. she’ll go full on Mad Queen (as unlikely as we all think that might be)?
2. She’ll be some sacrificial tool to end the long night?
3. She’ll die in childbirth?
4. Jon will kill her (due to point 1 or 3-latter being a mercy killing/Nissa/Nissa moment)?
Looking forward to the forthcoming debates 😛
To me this says she survives, as I expected. I dont think theyd have her die as an antagonist. Sounds like shell have to make some tough choices at the end. Also she used “is”.
It sounds like whatever happens to Daenerys will be tragic, and not the way Emilia was hoping she would be remembered at the end of it all. It makes me sad already, in a season that will probably rip our hearts out.
Makes me think of Emilia saying she had gotten into her car and driven around for hours after reading the script. I imagine it would take some processing to consider parting ways with GoT and playing Daenerys, and then have it all also end in some way that feels messed up emotionally, if that’s how things went down.
I’m filled with excitement and dread for S8. 🙁
Hell I don’t know… There comes a point when too much of the cryptic shit talk just starts to coagulate into a throbbing mass of goo in my head.
Ryan,
That depends on what your definition of is is 😉
Hopefully she doesn’t go the way of Rhaenyra, but who knows? Luckily, she doesn’t have more demented Targs to deal with. Her fate might be the ultimate sacrifice for the greater good.
Yeah, for all I know “IS” could mean that she actually is a dragon, created by R’hllor in human form in the womb until some event that triggers her transformation into true form. That’s why Rhaego was a stillborn creature with dragon-like scales and wings…
Hmm no I don’t like that… It felt she somehow says that she’ll do things that will leave a bad memory of her character to audience. God I hope she doesn’t harm Jon in any way or others for that matter! 😣 Dany has been my second favourite character in the show after Jon and I would really hate to see her go or finish her storyline as anything less than a hero saving the world!
“it fucked me up. Knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what Daenerys is…”
Clob,
Yea, it’s such a vague statement that it could mean just about anything. People will read what they want to read into it. I’m with you, Clob. I’m tired of the speculating and am more than ready for season 8 to start. I either need to start my GoT rewatch and delve into that or maybe I need to get away from GoT altogether until 2019 just to keep things fresh for the next year or however long it’s going to be.
Between this and someone on FF saying they are keeping Danny’s and Sansa’s scenes tightly under wraps and Emilia and Sophie filmed more than we know(*); I wish the season gets here quick. : (
*- take with a pinch or three of salt.
Clob,
From the VF article:
Clob said
Maybe she does physically transform into one, births one, or has some psychedelic experience involving these scenarios? I don’t think she’s had a House of the Undying type vision sequence since S2….
Mr Derp,
I watched casually until around S3 or S4 . After that I was supposed to wait until the series ended then binge all the remaining episodes. I kept myself away until close to the end of S7. Now the wait….dang
Death in childbirth.
Lol wow, that one quote has been taken out of context.
LOL, yeah, exploding heads and no real context to what’s read.
Dany’s storyline in particular has always been among my favorites. So no matter what happens, I hope the end of her arc is executed well (even if it is tragic). You can’t give a complex character like Dany an ending that doesn’t reflect her entire journey and struggle balancing her altruism with her overarching quest for leadership.
It’s also interesting to note that this announcement follows Sophie’s cryptic tweet about a “sad” day. Perhaps she finished filming as well? That means key players are starting to finish their scenes. But it makes sense with the season capping its filming next month.
I love how little we know about the season but I’d be lying if I said this wait wasn’t challenging. I am parched for some Game of Thrones goodness. Hopefully we get a trailer by October!
My comment was mostly just a joke to really take the word “is” to the extreme.
I have no clue what’s going on or going to happen but the more time that goes by the more I think I’ll be disappointed with the ending. It’s a pessimistic idea but sometimes that helps me feel better about the subject after it’s over. 🙂
Nissa Nissa.
Clob,
I predict you’ll be very satisfied. I’m very prophetic so I know what I’m talking about!
……… okay don’t hold a grudge if I’m completely wrong though.
Edward,
Sophie hasn’t finished filming. She and Maisie were spotted at the movies in Belfast. Right after Seville filming.
Burning Tyrion alive for betraying her! Burning Tyrion alive for betraying her! Probably not that, just first thing that came to mind thinking of something fans might be bothered by. I’m sure it could mean nothing we would guess but her language choice seems odd if it were not something that was going to piss some people off.
Regardless of the ending, it’s guaranteed to piss off plenty of people. Reading through many of the comments this offseason makes that clear.
Some people will throw a tantrum if Dany dies, some will throw a tantrum if Jon dies, same with Arya, Sansa, etc. There’s no way to please everyone. Hopefully people will be open-minded about the ending and the opinions of it won’t come down to whether or not their favorite character died or survived.
It can also take a while to truly appreciate the ending of a show. In my experience, more often than not, show endings are somewhat underwhelming on first watch, but get better over time. Kind of like the Sopranos for me. I hated the ending when I first saw it, but I’ve grown to appreciate it a little bit more over time.
Having said that, I hope GoT doesn’t end with a 10 second fade to black cliffhanger.
I could speculate, but nah. I think I have temporary prediction fatigue. I’m not a big VF fan, but I might get this one just to figure out what on earth she is wearing on her collar.
Dany going off the deep end of her own worst qualities and one of her followers having to kill her to stop her would not be an unsatisfactory culmination of her arc at all, for me. There’s a logic to it, and we haven’t been unprepared. Finding out that Jon’s claim to the throne is better than hers could mess up her sense of identity rather badly. Entitled people (and no one claims more titles than the Mother of Dragons etc.!) don’t tend to default to altruism or self-sacrifice when balked. Dany may be a protagonist, but I don’t think she’s a hero.
Would be amazing If she is the Queen at the end, Jon and many Others died saving westeros, and One of the heros is Jaime but he remains alive, and she as the Queen condemns him to death crucified, and tyrion dont accecpt that and is burned alive and Jaime crucified for his past crimes.
Would remain the question, was she right and making justice or is she going mad?
In the books i know i can wait for Things like that, in the show probably they Will take that way everyone already know with Jaime dieing on brienne arms or killed by Arya and the same use his face to get to Cersei. Just meh. And Dany dies giving birth, or is the Queen without any question of her being good or mad.
Perhaps she’ll “break the wheel” in the end, but not in the way she currently thinks. To her, breaking the wheel seems to mean no more rival Houses fighting against each other to sit on the Iron Throne, thus creating a stable form of law and order for Westeros.
Personally, I think she’ll end up doing “something” that will influence Westeros to get rid of the Iron Throne altogether and create a kind of small council with one person representing each of the 7 kingdoms, thus fulfilling the desire to create a stable form of government, and ending the constant fighting between Houses to be the sole ruler. What that “something” is, though, I cannot quite figure out yet.
vortex,
Or maybe she kills Jon, not Tyrion. 😊 Maybe events in Season 8 will lead her to sacrifice Jon for what she believes is the greater good. And this might have been foreshadowed in Season 7 by her interest in Jon’s having taken “a knife to the heart for his people.” (This is all just tinfoil, of course.)
What if we actually find that Dany is… not the Mad King’s daugter? It’s not beyond the realm of possibility that her mother had an affair with some of her guards after escaping to Dragonstone. That would be a twist to leave a lasting flavor in our mouths indeed, especially if Tyrion is revealed to be not who he thinks he is, too:) Sure, three concealled identities might be too much for one show, but who knows – it might work, if done right. Identity/legacy and nature vs nurture have been among the main themes of GOT/ASOIF, therefore it might be even reasonable to have this theme played in three different variations instead of only one.
Certainly plausible, but it could also be a possible foreshadowing for HER to take a knife for her people.
“it fucked me up. Knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what Daenerys is.”
______________
And the descriptions of that “lasting flavor” as “bittersweet” commencing in 5, 4, 3, …..
Enharmony1625,
she’s “shooting for the first time with several of the show’s top stars, including Sophie Turner and Maisie Williams.”
___________________
And suddenly, tinfoil speculation starts merging with reality:
Let’s get used to saying “Queen Arya, First of Her Name, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms.”
Long may she reign!👸🏻
Mr Derp,
Yes, for me it also sounded like Dany was almost lusting to learn what it felt like to take a knife to the heart for the people. I don’t think she’ll sacrifice Jon, though he might sacrifice himself and her, too.
Got to love Emilia, I think she’s great even if I don’t particularly care for Dany as a character.
Not sure I would read too much into this sentence but I guess it could mean she is killed (likely outcome in my view) or sacrificed Nissa Nissa style.
Good spot! I always wondered about that description of her stillborn child. It’s one thing for the witch to deceive Dany with that “only death can pay for life” pretext (supposedly) to prevent that child from growing up into a great conqueror who kills and destroys.
It’s quite another matter for that stillborn baby to come out looking like a fetal dragon. Which suggested to me that the child may have been: (a) a dragonlike creature all along; (b) a half-human, half-dragon hybrid; or (c) the offspring of a dragon in human form: similar to the way Melisandre’s outward appearance was nothing like her real appearance.
…aaaaand it’s time once again to reiterate my all-too-frequent reminder that the Nissa Nissa part of the Azor Ahai legend has never been mentioned in the TV version. Not once. Nunca. Far too late to be hanging that gun.
After all we read in last month; I’m totally convinced that HBO and GOT team just plain mind F#*@! us all. LOL
And still more to come.
Before my head explodes 💥I still think she filmed her last scene when she and Kit went to Iceland. I don’t have any theories as to what, but am I right in thinking that only those two went🤔
But this could be why they’ve not mentioned it to make the ending even more shocking.
Firannion,
Exactly. Also, I think that Dany’s being sacrificed by Jon/whoever, or her deciding to sacrifice herself for her people, would make her more “conventionally” heroic; and my interpretation of Emilia’s words (“fucked up,” “lasting flavor…”) is that Dany does something, or becomes someone, that some people would consider upsetting or even evil.
On the other hand, we don’t always have to believe everything that Emilia or any of the other actors says. 😊
Also, one thing I’m wondering about: when people parallel Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa with Jon and Dany, why do they usually assume that AA is Jon and NN is Dany? Can’t it be the reverse?
Jon Snowed,
Valonquar, anyone?
Enharmony1625,
I’m going to revisit my fanfic scenario from October, 2017 now that we know that Arya. the ultimate fan-girl of dragon-riding Targaryen women, is going to be meeting Queen Daenerys Targaryen, Mother of Dragons, Breaker of Chains, and Heroine of the Frozen Lake:
———————–
Arya (gushing): “Aunt Dany…I mean Queen Daenerys…I mean Your Grace…Squeeee!”
Dany: “Excuse me?”
Arya: (gulp) “It’s just that …I just wanted to tell you… you’re my biggest fan…I mean I’m your biggest fan!” (face palm🤦🏻♀️; starts hyperventilating).
Dany: “You alright?”
Arya (blushing): “It’s just that….You’re even more awesome in person and now I can’t breathe! I’m so sorry! ….I’m such a dork.”
Dany: “No, you’re cool as f*ck, my Princess…Hey, how’d you like to go dragon riding with me? Look at the world from high up in the sky? Maybe we’ll spot some ice zombies to flambe. I can show you how to do the Dracarys! command….”
Arya: (faints)
Lunaselene,
It can be; I think people assume it is Jon as AA and Dany as NN because of the genders of the original couple, and because Jon is the one with sword skills. He just fits the type of AA better. But, if you look to the prophesy, yes, Dany fits being AA much better than Jon does. With the waking dragons from stone bit and being born amongst smoke and salt or whatever.
Ten Bears,
Ten Bears you never disappoint. I’m glad you posted this here because I didn’t see it last time 🙂
Can’t wait for season 8!
Clob,
So True!!
I don’t think Arya would faint. 🙂
I have always taken that description of the stillborn child with a huge grain of salt. As far as we know, Dany’s only source for that tidbit of information is a highly unreliable narrator who is highly motivated to torment her psychologically. We never see her fact-checking with Jorah or her handmaidens, and the corpse is disposed of before she regains consciousness.
Had it been true, why wouldn’t a visual medium have shown us, rather than fall back on exposition? It’s not as if GoT is shy about shocking visuals.
Firannion,
Daenerys child is not the first one to be born with dragonlike features. Maegor had at least two stillborn dragonlike. Rhaenyra´s daughter was also born stillborn and dragonlike. And Dany´s mother suffered several misscarriages or babies who lived barely past their birth. So Rhaego could have been deformed. Targaryen history is plenty of medical issues from these misscarriages, to the madness and Targs in their thirties who looked twice their age and died suddenly.
On another matter. Since Emilia shooted Daenerys last scene in the series I´m betting in a scene indoors at the studios.
Because sometimes better to let the imagination of the reader/watcher run wild. Hinting at an horrible thing but not showing it makes people to think the worst.
Kentaro Miura did this very thing in Berserk
Spielberg wanted the shark of jaws to be seen from the very beginning of the movie. But when the pre-production ended the animatronic shark wasn´t ready. So he decided to start shooting and changed the movie showing the shark at the very end. And that´s why the movie works so well that he later did the same thing with Jurassic Park.
I think she will be turned into the Knight QUEEN
I can’t wait until this season comes out. I saw a recent interview today and Emilia said that she is about the 3/4 done with filming. So I’m glad to see there might still be a chance she might make it out alive. It’s funny I keep flip flopping between if Dany or Jon are going to live. Thanks for all the Great Updates. It is helping me get through the long night.
Daenerys is the one character who I just cannot predict anything for.
I just want her ending to be dramatic
Also, this is a strategic quote to get us talking, because no way would HBO greenlight her saying this otherwise.
But I do think it mean… her end will not be boring 😉
Dang. Sounds to me like we will have a full-on mad protective mother dragon in Season 8. If she really is pregnant in S8, she will do everything to protect this baby. She already lost one, she will not let it happen again, disagreements and altercations included, maybe even parting of the ways. Damn indeed.
Ten Bears,
Though it’s highly unlikely we’ll get to see Arya on a dragon ride with Dany, I’m just going to assume this happens off screen. Just as I assume Arya pranks Sansa using Littlefingers face. There’s no way Arya would pass up a chance to creep her big sister out using LF’s face! 🙂 Especially considering she stuffed Sansa’s mattress with sheep dung when they were young.
I was also thinking a bit more about what an Arya/Dany meeting or relationship could look like. Even though I think (and hope) Arya will be pro-Dany, if Jon’s true lineage causes tension between him and Dany, there would likely be tension between Arya and Dany as well as Arya will undoubtedly be on Jon’s side.
I can’t imagine, that Arya would be very taken with Dany, don’t know really why.
It wouldn’t fit to her (Arya’s) charakter, she wouldn’t bend the knee in front of Dany, I think. For her there would be no king, who’s name isn’t Snow.
I think, she would be very very wary – rightly, I think…
It’s only a feeling (or something like that) …
Brilliant. 🙂
I’m currently in really poor health and old as hell but if I don’t last long enough to see the final season as soon as it appears, I’m gonna be haunting the crap out of GRRM for the rest of his days. When he’s gone, I’ll move across to D&D and haunt those bastards too, for making me wait so long.
Mr Derp,
That phrase is the same one Dany uses to refer to her father’s madness…*I know what my father was*
Could be Emilia is trolling her audience, or this is one of the purported alternative endings they filmed, or she is telling the truth. Anyway, madness isn’t genetic and a bunch of folks believe the mad king might have been hearing voices…Bran’s voice.
Ten Bears,
or, maybe the witch was lying about the whole thing. I mean, she didn’t want the stallion to mount the world, did she?
For what it’s worth, I agree with you.
Cliohna,
First she said she read the entire script and went off for a long walk or something, now she’s saying she doesn’t know the ending. I think she’s trolling so I wouldn’t take anything any of the cast say too seriously – they aren’t going to spoil it for us. She’s a pro and knows how to tease the audience.
Just finished catching up on the comments and I’m a bit surprised that no one has mentioned that Emilia is talking about her performance not an actual plot point when she says
She obviously wants to get it right and do right by the fans.
Here, a similar quote from last year on filming the final season
Jay Targ,
Thanks for referencing this post. Out of everyone’s speculation, this seems to be the most sound for what she stated in this “new” interview.
I think Emilia is highly invested in Dany & the character’s arc. Say for instance, Dany dies or does turn mad concerning protecting her child or ends up becoming the new Night Queen, I think Emilia would be genuinely disappointed and say something like her quote in the VF article…
All of her statements have been preparing her fans for the worst. Bittersweet. Controversial. Others saying the fanbase could be divided. I fully expect Dany to not make it to the end or become the Night Queen and her fanbase (maybe the biggest of all Throne characters) to be pissed because they’ve wanted nothing but for her to sit the Throne for the last 8 years.
Jay Targ,
Yes, I have discussed this with others. We agreed it could be that she meant her performance. However, if that is what she meant, she articulated her meaning very poorly.
As much as I hated and frankly didn’t expect it, Emilia’s statements thus far about the seasons, especially in this article, show that Dany will have a tragic/unsatisfactory ending. Unless she is trolling fans, its pretty obvious that shes not happy with the way Dany will end her story arc and she seems quite disappointed with Dany’s last moments on the show which will have the lasting effect in people’s minds. This goes hand in hand with what she said after she read the script of how she left the room and went driving for hours. You dont really do that cuz you’re shocked that the script is great.. you would only do it if you are heartbroken and trying to wrap your head around something that you have been fighting against. Emilia has always been highly invested in her characters especially Dany and Lou from Me Before You. Since the show aired, she has always hyped Dany and believed that she will have a great and heroic ending. Yet, this is the first time I see her talking negatively or even bitterly about Dany’s arc in the story. I really hope I am wrong about this because frankly, I feel less enthusiastic about watching next season today than I was yesterday if such a complex but innately good character who has gone through various trials and lessons over the past 8 years to prove her abilities and change the world for good is going to get pushed into the “madness/evil” path just as the show did to almost every other female character on it all for the sake of a plot-twist.
Nanu nanu.
Rob,
I thought it was pretty straightforward. She’s talking about what it was like filming Dany’s very last scene… At least that’s how I read it. But maybe I’ve read/watched to many interviews of hers (and other cast members) because she states similar things everytime
Apollo,
1. she’ll go full on Mad Queen
IF that actually does happen I want to see all the posters who called those of us speculating on this very idea “haters” and “out of touch with this story” etc I want to see their faces (so to speak 🙂 here afterwards so we can serve them a nice big piece of virtual humble pie lol.
KissedByFirewyrms,
I’m filled with excitement and dread for S8
Same here. ALso add impatience to that.
She basically gives a similar responds whilst on Good Morning America today.
(at 4:30)
Me too. Luka, is there going to be a WotW get-together?
lets stop using this BS word bittersweet once and for all! ok?
On the other hand, when do you think teaser is going to be released? new year?
Well, I’m excited about Emilia Clarke teasing her stock footage career. I love the dynamic and unpredictable world of stock footage.
I don’t wanna comment on anything else, my brain is speculationed-out, I don’t want anyone to die, get f*cked up, or go mad in S8, I’m weak and I’ll be devastated.
Jay Targ,
Yeah. Emilia Clarke is very self conscious about her acting so I also read it this way. She hasn’t ever been too explicit when forecasting the following seasons during the down time. She knows how to work the audience with her charm.
Jay Targ,
Completely agree Emilia has always being self conscious about how people see her portrayal of Dany, she said during S7 that she was gonna reread all the Dany chapters in the books because she wants to portray her perfectly, than we have her dyeing her hair the same colour as Dany as well. Emilia in my opinion is a little worried how her performance of Dany’s final scene will last over time in the audience’s heart, she’s already acted it out so she can’t go back and do it even if she personally believes her performance itself could of being better. That’s what I personally think this whole thing is about, Emilia wouldn’t actually say anything to give away Dany’s ending not even lightly.
TEasers usually come a short time after filming has finished so most likely August or around that time. I doubt we will see any footage but we may get some audio like in S6.
I would guess we will get the first proper trailer towards the end of the year – not wishing my life away but that really cannot come soon enough.
Cool interview…but yes, those words could mean absolutely anything.
I for one have never expected Daenerys to “go mad queen”; I don’t believe that’s who she is. (Not to say she’s flawless and never makes questionable or controversial choices…who doesn’t in Westeros?)
First of, did she actually say she’s done filming Daenerys scenes, but she needs to film some other scenes?
1. Maybe, if she meant that she’s done filming Deanerys, and now she gives her another name, in the past I would think she will go full mad, but how is she not Daenerys then?
2. 4. Same in my book. But if she’s that, how that combine with that she film scenes that is not about Daenerys. Or maybe she become a night queen, and that’s how to stop the WW.
3. Stil doesn’t make sense what she meant with done with Dany scenes, but still need to shoot scenes.
Clob,
Or a phoenix if she become one with Sophie
Mr Derp,
Sopranos ending was gold for me, it suited the show, it was all about life. (you can interpretat it 2 ways, 1 it’s just life, life goes on there’s never a real ending in life so just stop somewhere for a story. or 2. He died and the last thing he saw was his daughter walking towards him, I like shows that end like that, lost leftovers etc)
But for me the best ending ever for a show and I think it will never be topped is the ending of Six Feet Under. I watched the show 2 times and both times the ending left me breathless and crying and feeling for hours about what it tells.
Inga,
Wasn’t there something in the books that Dany never could remember things about her past. Maybe she’s not real in the sense of born from another person. Maybe something with the Lord of Light.
Or Maybe Lyanna gave birth to twins?
Or Maybe she died in the fire at the end of season 1, and only magic will keep her alive, meaning once the WW are defeated she die.
I have to say the way Emilia choose her wording is maybe a little spoilerish but still it gives so many options that it gives nothing away. Only that the happy ending, we won’t get.
Ten Bears,
Could possibly happen. She dies, after that Arya takes her face. It also will be very Bittersweet (he he he). Arya never wanted it, so it will be a duty. It also explains why Emilia is done with Dany scenes but still needs to shoot scenes.
Last seasons of shows always have the way of introducing something there wasn’t hang there before.
And I would disagree with that it’s not hung:
– We got the whole Azor Ahai part of the prophecy only his name isn’t given only the prince that was promise, and that it will stop the long night.
– Last season Mellisandre, said that Dany has a purpose, and so does another. She never stated the parts. Maybe afraid of saying: Dany your part is dying and the other one will kill you, but first you must fall in love. She pushed Jon and Dany together. Why?
We only need 2 scenes:
1. Where Sam is reading a book where he comes across information of Azor Ahai state that the prince that was promised only can defeat the NK once he kill the one he loved the most with Lightbringer. Could be a scene shorter than 4 minutes. It even could be done with Sam and Bran talking about it. And bran just saying: There’s something Jon doesn’t know about defeating the NK. He is the prince that was promised, and he can only for fill this prophecy once he kill the one he loved the most. (could be done in less than 1 minute)
2. A scene with Melisande where she explains it, another 4 minutes.
3. A scene where it happens.
When Jon died (in the books it is at least), he tasted salt, and smelled smoke. He is reborn that moment in Salt and smoke.
Even Jaime could be AA: Last season, tears is salt, the fire gives smoke. That moment changed Jaime.
Firannion,
Didn’t Jorah or her handmaidens told her it was true? Can’t remember.
I think most people only look at she saved slaves. I think we can all agree that’s something heroic, or at least something good. But we know GRRM loves history, and he stated in many interviews that many times the heroes started out as bad guys, and the villains started off as heroes, and that both have good and evil sides.
And maybe that’s what GRRM is trying with his story, showing us, that even if somebody does something good (politics), doesn’t mean that the end up being the good guy.
—
And what is Emelia an amazing person
for mods: sorry for 3 posts, but once my posts are too long I post it, because sometimes it fails on my pc to send, and if I lost half an hour of typing and need to typ over again, I will lose it here.
I think it means she filmed Dany’s final scene in the series, but since they film out of order, she isn’t totally done yet. Simple as that. She’s not filming scenes as anybody but Dany.
Also, I’m in serious doubt that either Jon or Dany is actually Azor Ahai/the PWWP. It’s far too obvious, and feels as if they’re trying to make everyone expect that only to throw the usual curveball.
See I disagree there, we know there will be a big shock/twist at the end which I feel could be Nissa Nissa style sacrifice. THere is plenty of foreshadowing in the books and not in the TV show which leads me to conclude they are building up to something like that with the death of Jon or Dany.
If I chant “bittersweet, bittersweet, bittersweet”, do I go back to Kansas or does Beetlejuice appear?
#OutlawBittersweet
To confirm one should never mate Wolves with Dragons, unless a very special offspring is desired, and even then the consequences are tragic? Strong but not good enough as an ending, at least not on it’s own.
As for any of the two main protagonists dying, I’ll always root for Daenerys. This will be the ultimate tragic ending, while Jon dying will be dull – we already had that. Ofc if they are both gone this might negate the dullness, or not.
Besides, Jon doesn’t want to be a king, while Daenerys is hell bent on being The Queen. It’s only fair if everyone gets within reach of what they want and then is served exactly the opposite thing. No one is truly happy, everyone is brooding, but the wheel goes on. Not the one that is to be broken, but some wheel is always needed to move things forward.
Jon Snowed,
Yeah, this sounds plausible to me. I’m thinking that once Westworld is over (mid June), the GoT marketing machine will start to slowly ramp up. I’d love to see some photo stills of characters or places to start whetting the appetite prior to the first teaser.
I also wonder if they’ll show something at the San Diego Comic Con this year (mid July)? Up to season 5, they used to show a short video of the actors/actresses joining the cast playing new characters in the upcoming season. One can hope that they might have something cool in mind this year.
I wish I was able to go just for the opportunity to meet some of the fellow posters. If any WOTW regulars meet up then someone should take a picture and post it here. I know some people may not want their picture posted online and I understand that, but if it’s agreeable I think that would be pretty neat. I would enjoy putting faces to the names that I’ve been speaking with for so long.
Once GoT is over I’m not quite sure what will happen to this website or what kind of opportunity I’ll have to speak to most of you again. I would hate to never talk to any of you again once GoT is over. For whomever is going to Con of Thrones, I would urge you to try and get in touch with each other since who knows how many other opportunities there will be.
Good spoken, Mr. Derp!
:o)
Yeah fully agree, I was thinking about the photos but generally we get them much closer to the show airing. I’m sure there are others who could speak much more factually than I can but generally we’ve had things like comic cons with new actors, then teaser trailers released shortly after filming wraps up (I am thinking this is 1-2 months max after filming) and this would tie in well with Westworld ending. The trailer timing has got later with the seasons but I have a feeling it will be earlier this time given we have a six month plus lay over from filming ending and the show going to air. I think HBO always do a promo at year end which will almost certainly contain footage I just wonder if we have the full trailer beforehand or not, this will depend on when in 2019 it airs.
I wonder if the teaser this year will confirm the timing of the show coming on air say for example “Game of Thrones the final season February 2019” or something similar.
I’m definitely expecting our first glimpse of season 8 will be in one of the HBO seasonal teasers. It will be a quick flash of Dany on Drogon or Cersei on the Iron Throne along with other shows or movies. Then we won’t get a full trailer until early 2019 and the actual marketing will begin to ramp up. Regardless, that first trailer is gonna be so mind blowing…
It all depends on when in 2019 the show will air, the only thing we have to go on is that the show runners said it would be late 2018 or early 2019 which was later confirmed as 2019. If we assume a March start (which is what Kim Renfro has been suggesting), I’d be amazed if we don’t get a full trailer by the end of this year or January at the very latest.
Given how long they have for post production this time around I would be optimistic of a first relatively short trailer this Autumn and a full one around the turn of the year.
I’m one of those guys that wants to have closure at the end of a show that I’ve spent years of my life watching and being emotionally invested in. I generally do not like ambiguity for an ending.
Having said that, I think the Sopranos ending changed my perspective a little bit. Like I said earlier, the first time I saw the ending it kind of pissed me off. “I spent 8 years watching that show and all I got was a fade to black cliffhanger?” was my attitude at the time. But I grew to appreciate the ending on subsequent re-watches and having time to let it marinate in my mind a little bit more. Sometimes ambiguity is more satisfying and thought-provoking than having the ending spelled out for you. Plus, it’s a bit more realistic to have a fairly mundane ending rather than going out in a blaze of glory. Particularly when the show itself tries to emphasize realistic scenarios rather than fantasy.
Jon Snowed,
I think the first teaser for season 7 came out in December of 2016, so I would agree that we should start seeing the first glimpses of season 8 around December or so. I think it’s been pretty similar for other seasons too, at least wheen it comes to the teasers, but I’m not 100% sure.
kevin1989,
This theory about Dany being Jon’s twin is simply absurd: Lyanna could have given birth to twins or a triplet or whatever – Ned would have presentel all of her children as his own bastards. Their separation made no sense whatsoever.
But otherwise yes – there are plenty of things in the books implying some mystery surrounding Dany’s early childhood: she has memories that doesn’t line up with what she (and we) have been told about that period of time.
One of the possibilities is that Dany is fake: that Varys and his friend swaped her for real Dany who either died early or was stillborn. In the books, there is a baby swap story involving another (book only) character. There’s a question where Varys finds those Targarian-looking children though.
Another option is that Dany is not the Mad King’s daugther and that she was sired by Queen Rhaella’s lover. Again, the books imply that Queen Rhaella might have had a affair with the man who smuggled her to Dragonstone.
I’m not a fan of these theories but they might make sense in a certain context. After all, a secret prince (Jon Snow) is a very old trope, and if GRRM decided to use it, it’s quite possible that he also decided to balance it with its subverted version making Dany a secret bastard (and Tyrion, too).
The show has provided plenty of hints that Tyron might not be Tywin’s son (Tywin’s last words, etc.) and such revelation would make sense storywise: it would give a legit motivation to Tywin’s hatred and even explain some things about Cersei’s character. So, athough several key pieces of the puzzle are still missing (for instance, the show hasn’t mentioned that Tyrion’s mother was a Lannister herself), this theory seems to be quite plausible.
And if two of the three main protagonists are turning out to be not what they and we thought, what about the third? Can Dany be just Dany the Mad King’s daugter? IDN, there hasn’t been any foreshadowig in the show (except of the Dany’s exchage with Varys in 702, though that may be interpreted in many different ways) but God loves three, as we say it.
I’ve gone back and forth on this over the years, but at this point I believe that Tyrion is in fact Tywin’s son. If Tywin knew that Tyrion was a result of an affair then I would think that Tywin would have Tyrion killed ASAP.
Tywin does in fact say, “you’re no son of mine” before he dies, but Tyrion counters that by saying “I am your son. I have always been your son”.
And moments before Tyrion shoots him, Tywin says “you are my son.” The “you’re no son of mine” line was meant as one last dig at Tyrion I believe. Not some kind of hint at a secret.
Enharmony1625,
I starting watching an episode every 5 days. It’s helping!! I watched episode 6 season 1 yesterday… By the time I get to the finale of season 7, it will be april 2019. Hearing that Emilia shot the final scene really got to me. It will be amazing to see Arya and Dany together.
daenerys is not going to be pregnant that would make no sense i mean her and daario has fucked countless times and she never got pregnant and now her and jon fucked one time and boom shes pregnant that is crazy. so you”re telling me jon has a magic cock then
anthony jordan,
I think you could potentially explain this a number of ways I suppose. Couldn’t Daario be infertile? Could it be that Dany can only get pregnant by the PTWP? I really have no idea if she’ll get pregnant or not, but I’m sure there are ways to explain it if necessary.
Aegon the Icedragon,
I think they’ll show something in July at Comic Con. They’ve never really been able to do that like other shows and films do at that event, and this will be their chance. I’m sure they’ll have something to show at that event, and I’d be surprised if they didn’t.
It would be amazing if we could see a short clip from S8 given that they have been filming since last October I wouldn’t rule it out but clearly unlikely to be any CGI heavy scene.
You honestly think it doesn’t make sense and she’s barren or will remain barren? I think you’re in the minority on that, with both readers and viewers.
(book stuff:)
Like Mr Derp suggested, perhaps part of the issue was Daario. Perhaps she was infertile through that time for whatever reason, but is no longer…
Don’t you think there was also quite a bit of focus on it during S7 for it to not lead to something? I mean, her private conversation with Jon alone was really enough for me to say, “yep, she’s getting pregnant.”
Daenerys: “I can’t have children.”
Jon: “Who told you that?”
Daenerys: “The witch that murdered my husband.”
Jon: “Has it occurred to you that she may not have been a reliable source of information?”
Why add those words on that subject between those two characters, our two main protagonists, just before they end up boatsexing?
Wasn’t the first teaser trailer the Dany, Jon and Cersei walking around to the Proclaimers? I thought that came in February so four months before air date but less than one month after filming ended. I think HBO did a few shots in their year end review also.
Clob,
i dont know man i still doubt it would happen
anthony jordan,
I would honestly bet an extraordinary amount of money that Dany gets pregnant. They hung maybe 10 different guns for those not to go off in S8.
Plus something else to think on: Mirri Maz Durr told her only death can pay for life, and this has been reiterated time and again. So… maybe Viserion, her late child, was the “death” that paid for her new soon-to-be child’s “life”?
Makes enough sense to me.
I’m not so sure we’ll get much in the way of trailers for the last season, unfortunately.
Think about it- just about everything they’ll show would be spoilery, and it’s not as if they need to publicise the show- ratings are off the scale and the whole world is literally waiting desperately for the season to air.
At best, I think we’ll get a few quick teasers and promo posters- those will be enough to break the internet, and for this forum to light up.
Aegon the Icedragon,
Mr Derp,
Apollo,
Yes indeed. It doesn’t take much of a spark to light up this forum, that’s for sure.
Maybe they’ll give us just enough of a teaser to continue confusing the hell out of us one last time. They seem to enjoy that thoroughly.
You sound already wistful, Mr Derp…
So your not expecting a trailer of someone with dark hair and a thin sword riding a dragon then?
Mr Derp,
Well, there was that other exchange where Tywin said that he couldn’t prove that Tyrion was not his son. It implies that the very least Tywin had doubts. And why would he? As for now it looks like Tywin simply couldn’t accept a disfigured son (in other words, that he was a bad man). However, imagine that at some point we lear that Tywin had a legit reason to suspect that his beloved wife had an affair with another man or even worse – raped and then “killed” by the product of that rape? Wouldn’t that make Tywin more sympathetic and enable Tyrion to forgive him?
As for the truth, we may never know – there is no way to know the truth without the DNA test. Moreover, Tyrion can very well be both: there is a phenomenon called genetic chimerism when an organism develops from two zygotes fertilised by different parents which fuse together instead of developing into nonidentic twins and book Tyrion has a lot of features which speak in favour of this theory (Grey Area has made a video on that).
Inga,
Tywin always hated Tyrion because he’s a dwarf and because he “killed” his wife during childbirth. Tyrion doesn’t live up to what Tywin considers an ideal Lannister man. I don’t think there’s much more to it than that. Tywin wished that Tyrion wasn’t his, but alas he was. It’s much more realistic than Tywin hating Tyrion because he’s the result of an affair. Both are certainly plausible, but I just think the affair plot is more akin to a soap opera than GoT. Besides, like I said before, if Tyrion was the result of an affair then Tywin would’ve had Tyrion killed ASAP. I don’t think Tywin had a sympathetic bone in his body.
I agree with this.
It’s hard to say goodbye, but at least we still have another year left before the inevitable 🙂
I can see them doing a teaser trailer just with moody music and clips of the characters singly or with just the characters we’ve seen with them so far.
Inga,
and
Mr Derp,
I always had the feeling that the books is trying to go to that Jaime and Cercei aren’t Lannisters but Targaryen.
“Jaime kissed her cheek. “He left a son.” “Aye, he did. That is what I fear the most in truth.” That was a queer remark. “Why should you fear?” “Jaime,” she said, tugging on his ear, “sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna’s breast. […] but Tyrion is Tywin’s son, not you. I said so once to your father’s face, and he would not speak to me for half a year. […].”
Made sense in a way, the incest part of Jaime and Cercei. I think that in the books they are in fact the children of the Mad King. Don’t think the show will go there.
Mr Derp,
The thing I found most absurd about her being pregnant is that (at least in the books) she lost her period after the affair with Miri Maaz Dur, if a woman can’t get a period (after having them), means that 1. she’s pregnant. or 2. Her body has lost the ability to get children.
I don’t hope the show ends with Jon (or the lord of light) with some magic that can cure that. If I wanted something where magic can cure everything I will watch once upon a time.
Clob,
If she gets pregant I hope it will not be a fairy tale kind of way. And if she will be pregant I think it’s nothing good. Maybe she will be pregnant but give birth to something like Mel did. Something horrible.
Random Thoughts:
– Maybe the NK magic is tied to the Dragon’s magic. She has to kill her Dragons to neutralize/kill him.
– Maybe she has to sacrifice or give up her son to NK to save another (death paying for life).
– I am very curious to see what her response to Jon’s lineage is going to be?
– What is Bran’s remaining role? To tell Jon, sure. But since NK knows where he is due to touching/branding him, will he be used as bait to lure him somewhere?
– Hoping for no more face changing and just bad ass Arya.
– If there is a AA. is it Jon, Dany, Jamie, Arya, Theon, Tyrian, Hound, other?
– Hope they give characters we have come to enjoy (Tormand, Bronn, etc.) a meaningful death
Mr Derp,
True, the the affair plot is more akin to a soap opera than GoT (that’s why I lean towards the rape plot which is implied in the books). One way or another, GOT loves to subvert our rushed conclusions based on false or partial information, so I wouldn’t rule out that to be done Tywin’s and Tyrion’s story, too.
Pigeon,
As long as they don’t do that damn melting ice block thing to reveal the start date again. That was just cruel and unusual punishment.
Question: why did my comment get deleted? 2 comments today got deleted. Is it deleted by the mods or is there something wrong with my pc/browser?
I see my comment is back with a message that it’s under moderation. Did I post something wrong?
I COULD see that, Jon Snowed…
Clearly they’re both going to play a majorly important role in how things turn out, and I love them both. It’s likely that at least one will die, perhaps in a particularly sacrificial way. I’m just not really expecting either to actually turn out to be the PWWP.
I’m also not expecting the ending to be tied up all perfectly with happy little bows, because duh. I do hope to be *satisfied* and not *too* depressed about the way it all ends up, or left wondering about things that have no hints as to probable answers. I’d been thinking April for the premiere, so to hear March as a strong possibility is great…=D
Yeah, Dany being pregnant is extremely likely. I’m still undecided as to whether I think Cersei was lying about hers to manipulate Jaime, but I lean toward that. Unless it’s going to be important to the plot that she also is.
Agreed again with Mr. Derp. 😉
And I’m curious about most of those “random thoughts” as well, though I wouldn’t be averse to a bit more face-changing if it leads to more awesome results. xD And I hope for meaningful deaths for all my faves, IF they must go! :’-x
It’s typically just a glitch on the site that pops up once in a while. At least that’s what we think it is. hmm. You’re lucky if you’ve never experienced it before because it sucks when you write out a long comment and have it just disappear. 🙁
Oh lord. I had repressed that memory…..
Yes, I do believe that the ice would have melted faster if they just would have had Esmé Bianco sit on it for a while. >.>
😛
Apollo,
Emilia seems to be extremely disappointed with her character….
So, yes, I think she’ll go mad and therefore do the “weird shit” – like her father. Some tragic event may have triggered this madness.
I had it a couple of times. But I though I ask because I wanted to know if there was something wrong with my pc.
If they do, just put on an episode of game of thrones and watched it after.
But that they can get away with that let us know that game of thrones really is amazing. Which show can do something like that? And which show ever had a trailer for a trailer. (season 7 had one if I remember).
Yeah, I remember it happened to me, but before I clicked send I C & P to my note app in browser, and was able to send it a second time.
kevin1989,
Genna Lannister’s off the cuff remark can in no way be used as evidence to support the theory that Jaime isn’t Tywins son. She wasn’t present at the bedding ceremony.
She’s simply referring to Jaime’s character- indicating that Tyrion has the same cunning nature as Tywin. It’s we’ll documented in Tyrion’s POV chapters how Tyrion tried his best to emulate Tywin, in order to win his approval.
I believe it’s to overpower the NK in some way, and that it’ll be a collective effort by the main characters to overcome and finally kill him: knowledge, warging, dragonfire, blood magic/sacrifice and the Red God. I really don’t think it’s a case of removing the dragonglass shard- that’d be way too cheesy.
Theons Richard,
What is Bran’s remaining role?
There are several reasons, why periods can stay away for a while, fx physical and/or mental stress, and surely Dany had total physical and mental stress, after losing her child, her Drogo and her khalasar. Her body decided to save energie (to have period costs energy!) and to avoid pregnancy.
With her lover Dario and a kind of “normalization” of her love life her period normalizated, too. And so her ability to become pregnant.
Bronn needs his castle, dangit. And not a Lego one, either. XD
I don’t think we can interpret Emilia’s cryptic words as bitterness or unhappiness at Dany’s ending…and I certainly don’t want to.
Again, I do not see her “going mad” or becoming Cersei-like. Hopefully everyone is just restraining themselves from making claims that may leave people disappointed, or seem as if they’re giving something away…
And as people have been suggesting, there are a great many possibilities much less cliche and predictable than “Jon=PWWP, Dany=Nissa Nissa.”
Definitely agree that it will take the combined efforts and strengths of many of the remaining characters to defeat the NK.
“The lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what she is.”
Wouldn’t surprise me if she dies saying “burn them all” just like her father. Perhaps in a much different context than him (wights), but nontheless still a “lasting flavor.”
Apollo,
What if overpowering the NK and removing the dragonglass requires collaboration from many characters? After all, the NK rides a dragon like Dany, is a green-seer like Bran, carries a weapon (like several characters do). I’ve already described a scenario where Sam, escorted by No One, gets close to the NK whilst Bran immobilizes the NK in a green-seer battle. Add Dany riding Drogon in battle against wight-Viserion, and we’ve got three major characters collaborating right there. Now have several more defending Bran’s material body against an attack from AotD.
Sure, “destroy the mothership” is an
old trope, but we all cheered Luke Skywalker’s attack upon the Death Star, didn’t we? 😀
____________
They wouldn’t spoil the ending that way. 👸🏻🤺
Nijaguna Mrudul,
Early Jan or Christmas time is when da teaser is gonna be released! No later..!
Ha Ha.. we can now call it BS ending to avoid using that wretched word!
Doesn’t have to be a permanent state. Women who are marathon runners often stop menstruating when they’re in training, for instance. It’s because they are so lean: Women need a certain percentage of body fat to create enough estrogen to ovulate and menstruate. When they retire from full-time running, their bodies go back to normal, and some do go on to raise families.
Hmmm. Well, I agree that Dany is a protagonist however, I must also point out that Jon is a protagonist as well. Neither are heroes, yet! Both have done heroic deeds.
It’s gonna be like the end of Son of Godzilla.
Medusa,
Why cannot Daenerys be Azor Ahai and Jon Nissa Nissa?
Daenerys has come to save Westeros, and then to rule over Westeros, whereas I don´t see that Jon has a purpose other than sacrificing his live as the great hero he is.
Theons Richard,
“- Hoping for no more face changing and just bad ass Arya.
– If there is a AA. is it Jon, Dany, Jamie, Arya, Theon, Tyrian, Hound, other?”
_____________
• For sure! Arya Super Ninja Assassin Warrior Princess™, with snappy one-liners, stinging insults and zingers as she takes out bad guys.
e.g.:
Euron: “Who are you?”
Arya: “You’re about to find out.”
(Jams Needle through his eye and out the back of his skull; as he falls he tries to grab her wrist but with her other hand she unsheathes her dagger and slices off his hand)
Arya: “Who’s got two hands now, f*ckface?”
Yara: “Bluh bluh!” [= “thank you!” without tongue]
__________
And then, towards the end of the last episode, Arya in thoughtful contemplation about the future of the realm:
https://i.imgur.com/Wk6lyQ7.jpg
__________________
• Book AA = Show Warrior of Light = The Lord’s Chosen = Sandor Ahai f/k/a Sandor Clegane a/k/a The Hound
_______
™ Talvikorppi 2018
Carole H,
I agree. I think it happend in Iceland.
maybe does she make a sacrifice, Jon to be the new night king or her child.
Ser Hogwyn,
Well I will take your word for that Ser Hogwyn👍
Oh dear Emilia, I’ve just seen Solo and suspect it’s going to tank at the box office, if so, it will be two big budget flops where she’s been a lead character. That sort of mud is likely to stick and may dash any hopes she has of a long term movie career.
Jon Snowed,
Really? The Han Solo movie got 3 stars in my local newspaper’s review. Emilia’s performance was praised.
I won’t go to see it though. Ever since that abomination called “The Force Awakens”, I’ve sworn off Star Wars sequels and prequels. Maybe someday on cable…
If I go to the theater at all, it will be to see Stannis and Arya – I mean Stephen Dillane and Maisie Williams – in “Mary Shelley.”
Jon Snowed,
I think she just needs to find the right roles for her. I haven’t seen “Solo” yet, nor do I plan to until it comes out on tv since the last handful of Star Wars movies I’ve seen have been terrible. I miss good Star Wars movies, not the Star Wars flavored product that they’re putting out now just to sell tickets. I could be wrong, but her role in “Solo” just doesn’t seen to fit her very well. Like I said, I haven’t seen it, so I could be wrong.
Jon Snowed,
While Emilia admittedly is not my favorite actress on GOT, I do think she is going to be a big star. She’s still young and she’s learning and growing with each role she takes. She has what it takes to succeed in Hollywood. She’s very attractive and she has a fantastic personality which sounds shallow but let’s be honest that’s what they look for over there – and while she may not be Meryl Streep I wouldn’t say she’s a ‘bad actress’, I’d say she just hasn’t found that one role that will show us what she’s made of. As for ‘sticking’ look at Nicole Kidman as an example, she’s made some real stinkers over the years mixed in with a few hits and yet she’s one of the highest paid in her profession. I wouldn’t write Emilia off just yet.
Emilia has a special quality when she plays Daenerys. Shes not the best actor on the show (shes good with occasional moments of brilliance), but when shes in a scene with any character, she steals the spotlight. She has that certain “X-factor” that cannot really be taught.
I’ve yet to see her bring this quality to other roles, but from what I’ve heard, shes perfectly fine in Solo.
I took my daughter today to see it, first full day of opening and there were about twenty people in the cinema (it was packed when Avengers came out). My daughter loves star wars but was very disappointed in it.
Regarding Emilia, I’m not a fan of the Danery’s character but love the actress, however her acting wasn’t great I’m afraid.
I fully agree with you here, feel she has been horribly mis cast in her last two big movies, she needs to find a different niche.
Carole H,
Good call. I think in this particular interview, she was talking about the emotional sentiment she was feeling, because of course, saying goodbye to Dany is very emotional to her. It’s a journey of almost ten years. So, film Dany’s last scene makes her feel a lot of pressure (she knows how dany is important and special for a lot of people), and also she worries about her performance, etc.
Also, i agree with you. Since they film out of order, Emilia saying she already filmed Dany’s last scene could possibly mean that time when she was filming with Kit a few months back and we got that cute BTS photo of them.
Mr Derp,
I think December or January. A trailer maybe only later, But i really hope we can get a teaser in december. Post-production will be long tho. And they are still far from end the filming..
I don’t think her long-term career is in any kind of trouble. Me before You with Sam Claflin was great, and these reboots of classic movies like Terminator and Star Wars are always risky. Plus she is looking at going beyond acting now as well. She’ll be just fine.
Is this your first off-season with WotW, Jay Targ? Hell, wild speculations are half the fun while we wait. It’s really interesting to see just how far some people will take a line of thought, and then fun when the Wiser Ones on this site can take it no more and set us all straight with common sense and some measure of logic. 🙂 Luckily, I’ve had Westworld and some other great shows to fill the void, but I’m really anxious for the new season to start.
Well now I’m totally annoyed, inferring Daenerys is ending the story in some crappy way. Great. So glad she said so not.
The only relief would be if Emilia Clarke the actress finds Daenerys’ final scene distasteful but it’s over something that wouldn’t bother me.
In my mind: maybe she spurns Cousin Jon then aborts the [much anticipated] fruit of their union. Whatever, as far as I’m concerned.
But if she dumps on someone or leaves someone in the lurch or…. a gazillion other supposes… well then damn I wish the writers had crafted a better end for her fantastic character.
bleh so peeved
Because Dany is a “powerful female”, Hollywood wants to push Emilia as a gun wielding, femme fatale…
This isn’t who Emilia is, and its also not who Dany is. Dany might be powerful, but shes a very stoic character with a child-like ethereal grace. Its why HBO cast 5’2” baby faced Emilia, rather than a 6 foot tall athletic blonde.
I will tell you why Jon as Nissa Nissa is very unlikely but use spoiler code as it relates to set filming reported on watchers
Solo was actually pretty damn good and Emilia does a good enough job with the role. It’s a little distracting seeing her in the role, and it affected my enjoyment initially as the casting overall is really lazy (is it possible to see a sci-Fi movie without Thandie Newton, Woody Harrelson or Paul Bettany in it? Jeez).
But the movie recovers really well and by the end I’d thoroughly enjoyed it. Funny, refreshing, diverse with a few twists and some real tender moments. It doesn’t even seem like a Star Wars movie in all honesty.. perhaps that’s why folks are disappointed. .
Pigeon,
Agreed- “Me before you” was an excellent film and she really shone in that movie.
Ten Bears,
Going OT…
“Rory McCann [The Hound] started out with two left feet, but now he’s down to one.” -Tommy Dunne, weapons master for “Game of Thrones”
Mr. Dunne reports that the best sword fighters are Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jamie Lannister) and Maisie Williams (Arya Stark). 😀
#ConOfThrones
Surprise, surprise!
Again, I doubt Emilia is disappointed with her ending, and I don’t expect Dany to go mad–BUT I do love that idea of her final words being “Burn them all” (referring, naturally, to the AotD…) 😀
There is definitely something about Emilia in the role of Daenerys that’s commanding and leaves a big impression. Terminator, not so much…in Me Before You she was good, though it wouldn’t have put her on my favorite actresses list or anything. I don’t care enough about Star Wars to see them before they’re rentable, but I’m sure she’ll at least be adequate in that role. There are certainly more talented and versatile actresses in the cast, but it’s not as if she’s a weak link who lets them down. Kind of funny how the one part is so much more remarkable than anything else I’ve seen her do so far, but then it IS GoT, and she’s very young yet. She’ll probably grow. I think her natural bubbliness and funniness and insanely animated face/eyebrows would lend her well to comedy…in fact, I hope to see quite a few cast members continue to find great success with comedies, dramas, musicals, whatever. Some had already been greatly successful and I had just not heard of them; the only ones I’d really known at all before were Sean Bean, Charles Dance, & Diana Rigg.
Well, hopefully you’d at least heard of Max von Sydow… 😉
Oh yes, Max too! He had such a small (though important) part I didn’t think of him. xD
Jon Snowed,
Emilia Clarke would be a natural in a difficult role for some actresses: comedy. She had impeccable comic timing, though it’s not on display playing Daenerys “I was born to rule!” Targaryen.
She’s also got a knack for goofy yet endearing facial expressions.
Wolfish,
“Mr. Dunne reports that the best sword fighters are Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jamie Lannister) and Maisie Williams (Arya Stark). 😀”
________________
That warms the heart. Thanks for the report!
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b3/95/3c/b3953cfddf475da3bb1707c86b4f2fbe.jpg
Wolfish,
Let’s not forget to mention Jim Broadbent. I thought he inhabited the role of Maester Ebrose so well that I didn’t realize it was Jim Broadbent at first. (Usually he plays wacky, devilish older gentlemen with his hair all frizzy. As Maester Ebrose, he was soft-spoken and dignified.)
Oh yeah, totally forgot about Jim because I barely processed that it was him…I always think of Slughorn, haha.
______________
• That does mean that Rory McCann used to be awkward but now his footwork has improved, right??? There wasn’t some hidden meaning that Sandor somehow loses a foot, right?
• I had not heard any filming news involving Rory MCCann. I had started a daily HoundWatch earlier this month. I take it from Mr. Dunne’s statement (“…now he’s down to one”) to mean in the present tense. If so, I can formally announce: “And now my HoundWatch is ended.”
• Hss anyone tried to ask Mr. Dunne a trick question, like “Can you tell us about some of the technical challenges you faced in mounting the scene when Sandor pulls Lightbringer from the flames?”
Ten Bears,
Yes, agreed, and no (lol)! He was wonderful to listen to and answered several questions, but did NOT linger for any conversation afterwards. My daughter and I did, however, have an absolutely delightful exchange with Sibel Kekilli while having our photos taken with her. She was genuinely shocked that we’d seen “Head On,” thrilled to hear that it’s one of my favorite films, and asked us several questions even though we were supposed to scoot along quickly! And the Spotlight session with her was wonderful.
Also, Lonely Cat totally KILLED it as Wight Cersei. She’s an incredible seamstress!!!
Photo with the lovely Sibel: https://twitter.com/braziliangog/status/1000196505347739648?s=21
Annnddd… It was fantastic to meet Sue and Oz this morning, I’m sorry I pounced on Luka right as he was going into a panel, and Petra was awesome during the Theon discussion (but of course)!
So true.
Wolfish,
Great picture!
I met Sue, Luka, and Oz this morning too. David was fantastic on a panel this afternoon but I didn’t have time to say hello. I wonder if we crossed paths today. Are you planning to attend The Sisterhood of Sansa and Arya Stark at 1:00? That and Joe Dempsie are my two must-sees.
Gwidhiel,
Thank you!
Stark Raven’ Rad,
Yes and yes!!! Tomorrow’s my sole dress-up day. I’ll be one of the Cerseis. If you’re up to it, email me at [email protected]. 🙂
Interesting that he mentions NCW. I wouldn’t have expected that. I seem to recall D&D saying that Kit was so good at sword fighting that they had to slow some of his stuff down in editing so we could see what was going on.
As for Maisie, I guess all that combat training we heard she took part in earlier this year paid off. “The only one who needs protection is the one who gets in her way,” indeed! (“It won’t be me.” – Sandor)
Thanks for the info, Wolfish!
Enharmony1625,
🐺😬
thi targaryen,
I have no idea what it is likely to be. I have just completed my rewatch and didn’t really pick anything up from that but I suspect it is probably a book thing, which I have read but would need to read again before giving an opinion on that. With the wedding of Kit and Rose on 23rd June filming must go on to at least July perhaps?
Asinaria,
I still think we haven’t seen the last of the alter where Craster’s sons were taken, however you wouldn’t need Iceland for that but…….💥head just exploded!!!
I totally agree romantic comedies I think would allow her to flourish, she was horribly miscast in Solo unfortunately.
Jon Snowed,
Emilia Clarke was very good in a supporting role as Jude Law’s character’s daughter in “Dom Hemingway” (2013). She also sang. Jude Law played against type as a more-than-slightly unhinged safecracker who didn’t snitch on his boss, served his prison term, and is expecting his share of the loot for his loyalty. He’s also looking to reconnect with his estranged daughter.
For those of you at home playing Six Degrees of Game of Thrones, “Dom Hemingway also features Richard E. Grant (Braavos theater troupe’s Izembaro/faux Tywin); and Kerry Condon (who co-starred with Maisie Williams in 2014’s “Gold” – along with James Nesbitt, who co-starred with Tara Fitzgerald (Selyse Baratheon) in “Hear My Song” (1991).)
Enharmony1625,
“As for Maisie, I guess all that combat training we heard she took part in earlier this year paid off. “The only one who needs protection is the one who gets in her way,” indeed! (“It won’t be me.” – Sandor)”
________________________
From what I’ve been reading here – and I admit I am biased – it sounds to me like Emilia Clarke is done filming, Sophie Turner is done filming, and … Maisie Williams is still filming and has already filmed extensive battle scenes after significant physical training and technical preparation, e.g., from “weapons master” Tommy Dunne, who trains the actors in swordfighting. Mr. Dunne’s quotes also suggest he’s been training Rory McCann for the upcoming season.
As I recall. Maisie Williams hinted in an interview excerpted here a few months ago that in S8 she hopes she gets a chance to bring back a bit more of that fun child we all fell in love with.
Then a few days ago, we got confirmation that Daenerys has scenes with Arya and Sansa.
I am reluctant to get my hopes up. Yet [and excuse the football analogy] after Arya’s character was essentially benched for much of the second half of S7 and only got in for a few plays, am I seeing signs that in S8 we will be pleasantly surprised to see her back on the field full time as the starting quarterback to regain her former glory and help lead the home team to victory?
(Yeah, yeah, I know. GoT is supposed to be the story of Jon and Dany. Maybe their roles are to make the sacrifices and tough decisions that ultimately pave the way for others to “break the wheel” and usher in a new beginning…)
– End Fanboy Word Salad –
#ASongofIceandArya
Ten Bears,
Emilia is returning for filming once shes done with Solo promotion
“Head on” is a damn monument of a movie, towering the landscape of german cinema of the past 30 years. so nice to see someone here appreciate it. it was the kickstarter for Sibel’s career, if i remember right. and not even the tabloids having a hard-on for weeks for “she was in a porn movie before” could stop this career.
i had this “scandal” back in mind when i watched the drinking game with Shae, Tyrion and Bronn and how it ended. no one else on the planet could have done this better.
I remember that interview, and hope that we do indeed get to see some of that old side of Arya return. I would love for the show to give us a nod to Arya’s relationship with Jon as it happens in the books this last season. For instance, Jon used to muss up Arya’s hair when they were together in Winterfell, and she often thinks about this in the books. There’s also plenty of golden opportunities (as we’ve often talked about) for some good-natured ribbing between Arya and Sandor; a more playful version of their interactions from seasons 3 & 4.
As for Arya and Gendry, as much as I would love to seem resume their teasing relationship, it might feel a bit too redundant as we’ve already seen that. If they are going to interact much at all, it will have to develop in some way. I can see it going in one of two ways: it evolves into actual flirtation and attraction between them, or they realize they’ve both changed too much to be able to reconnect in the way they were before.
Given how removed Arya has been from the “main” storyline for most of the story (arguably from season 2 – 7), I feel that there has to be a significant role for her to play in the Great War. And I hope it’s more than just that she’s a great fighter. Whether her face-changing skills will come into play, her ability to fight blind, or even both.. I’m hoping for something along those lines!
death by chickenfire,
Hear, hear!!! I was thrilled when Sibel was cast *because* of “Head On,” and she did not disappoint.
Probably just to film Dany’s abdication and Queen Arya’s coronation. 👸🏻
Dany: “Your crown, your Grace.”
Arya: “I don’t want to wear a crown. And do not call me ‘your Grace’!”
Dany: “As your Grace commands.”
Wolfish,
“Also, Lonely Cat totally KILLED it as Wight Cersei. She’s an incredible seamstress!!!”
__________________
I hope there will be pictures.
And that’s kind of prescient to dress up as Wight Cersei in advance of S8.
Wolfish,
I forgot to add: I hope you are all having a great time! And thanks for your reports.
Kim Renfro confirms Joe Dempsie (Gendry) has finished filming sounds like there isn’t much more left to do now.
What is your source for that or are you speculating? They don’t shoot in order but a lot of the actors have now finished completely.
Ten Bears,
Seems my reply floated off into moderation space ne’er to be found again.. Lucky for me, I saved it given everyone else’s experience with posts going AWOL.
I remember that interview, and hope that we do indeed get to see some of that old side of Arya return. I would love for the show to give us a nod to Arya’s relationship with Jon as it happens in the books this last season. For instance, Jon used to muss up Arya’s hair when they were together in Winterfell, and she often thinks about this in the books. There’s also plenty of golden opportunities (as we’ve often talked about) for some good-natured ribbing between Arya and Sandor; a more playful version of their interactions from seasons 3 & 4.
As for Arya and Gendry, as much as I would love to seem resume their teasing relationship, it might feel a bit too redundant as we’ve already seen that. If they are going to interact much at all, it will have to develop in some way. I can see it going in one of two ways: it evolves into actual flirtation and attraction between them, or they realize they’ve both changed too much to be able to reconnect in the way they were before.
Given how removed Arya has been from the “main” storyline for most of the story (arguably from season 2 – 7), I feel that there has to be a significant role for her to play in the Great War. And I hope it’s more than just that she’s a great fighter. Whether her face-changing skills will come into play, her ability to fight blind, or even both.. I’m hoping for something along those lines!
Ten Bears,
We are!!! Paula Fairfield and Miltos Yerolemou were both fantastic. I just delivered a beer to my husband at the pool, and he bowed when I arrived (I’m cosplaying as Cersei today). The guests at the pool were mightily entertained. 😂
My posts seem to be getting lost.. 🙁
HelloThere,
Emilia Clarke was outstanding in season 5 and should have won an Emilia Emmy
Jon Snowed,
Emilia states here that she’s three-quarters of the way through filming.
https://youtu.be/NaMvPh7vynM?t=1m19s (at 1:19)
She’s stated on various interviews that she will return to film as soon as promo tour ends (Wednesday, May 23rd, was her last day for promo)
I agree! I LOVE Jon & Dany, and have since the beginning, but I don’t like boiling it down to being all about the two of them. I like big casts of interesting characters, which of course is what this show’s been to the extreme, and I think most of the people still alive are there for a reason…they’ll have major contributions to make to the final battles and/or the future…
And oh my goooosh, it’s so exciting that filming is probably winding down…:X I’d heard that it might even go into August, and I suppose there could still be bits here or there going on until then, but…omigooooosh. x_x
Wolfish,
Damn. I talk to to Circe’s today, and I never guessed it might be you. Are you going to the Waychers on the wall event tomorrow at 10? And did you hear joe Dempsie?
Fwiw, I saw Solo today – its not a bad movie, just not what a lot of fans were hoping for. Thought Emilia was excellent in her role, nothing wrong with her acting. my DH has often commented on how much more stunning she is as a brunette than as a blond, and it really shows here.
I really want to go to Con of Thrones next year, need to start saving my pennies! Will the attendies (sp) be reporting back on the different discussions? Hope so!
I actually prefer Emilia’s look with the platinum-blonde Dany hair (nothin’ wrong with her natural brunette, though.)
firstone,
I don’t remember much about her arc from season 5 (they all tend to blend together for me except the last season which is always fresh in mind but on your same note I believe Kit should have got an award for his work in season 6. He was just perfection in all his scenes imo.
Thanks Jaytarg, I am curious about which scenes she will film given a number of the cast have now finished. I would guess it’s scenes with Kit in Belfast but it’s pure speculation. If she is only 3/4 do we assume she has filmed a lot given there are weeks left of shooting now?
Jon Snowed,
Yeah, maybe. I imagine most of those scenes with Kit would have already been filmed. If I had to guess, most of what she’ll be filming now will be her dragon scenes. Those were the last scenes she filmed for S7, so why not again for S8.
Yes, she’s filmed a lot. A few more weeks of filming and she’ll double the amount she filmed for S7. That seems to be the case for other actors as well.
Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I’ve been avoiding spoilers however I thought I saw/read somewhere that the least was known about Emilia’s and Sophie’s filming. Whilst we know Kit and Maise are involved in the big battles and had spent a lot time filming (which makes sense).
FWIW, wolffish and Lonely Cat and I met last night. They came as Cersei and Mel respectively, and looked absolutely smashing! I was a civilian. Today kicks off with a WotW event. Sue, mods, and people connected with this site have done a brilliant job putting the Con together. It is run so smoothlyand so much fun. I urge everybody who can, to try to go next year.
_________
• So you shouldn’t be surprised if today you’re reclining in a lounge chair and he serves you a goblet of red wine…and hovers close by with a carafe for prompt refills.
• Out of curiosity… did anyone show up as Septa Unella? 🔔🔔🔔 I’m picturing a Cersei vs. Unella faux wineboarding cosplay out by the pool…
Ha! I just read this from Winter is Coming:
“Dempsie was full of praise for Maisie Williams (Arya). He’s hoping that she and Gendry end up together so he and Williams can work together again.”
This was from the panel Joe was on (he’s apparently done filming season 8), and I imagine he was just trolling.
Ten Bears,
I saw Early Man last night. The movie is okay, but Maisie does a really good job in it. I could barely recognize her voice as Goona — she convincingly creates her own take on a Scandinavian accent.
I bet a lot of Emilia’s filming is indoors.
And a lot of it will be on top of a mechanical dragon
Jon Snowed,
Yeah, Maisie and Kit were very involved in the night shoots that they did in February and March.
http://watchersonthewall.com/season-8-just-finished-filming-the-longest-battle-shoot-in-game-of-thrones-history/
But we know quite a bit about when Sophie and Emilia are filming by when they’re spotted in Belfast. The actors we know least about are probably Peter and Lena tbh. I’m sure they’ve also filmed a lot, but they’re rarely seen.
HelloThere,
Yup. In a podcast she did with THR Awards Chatter she implies the mechanical bull thing she has ridden in the past is better in S8 and that it’s “badass”. I’m interested in the behind the scenes stuff to see what they did to it now.
Link to podcast
https://twitter.com/yeahclarke/status/996179157741703168
I’m guessing she will have some indoor shoots at Winterfell too however given Sophie has apparently already finished and so have Sam & Gilly actor/actress I’d guess that’s all done.
Emilia is one character that we literally don’t know anything about other than she will film some scenes with Sophie/Maisie. Seemingly she wasn’t at the Kings Landing filming or what ever went down in Seville from the finale.
Jon Snowed,
King’s Langing set is hardly half into shooting. As far as I remember the captain of the Golden Company was sheduled to shoot in June, so it’s quite possible that Dany will turn up there, too. Whatever it’s going to be, it should be an extensive action sequence involving most of the lead characters.
I’ve said it before that I am not following spoilers but haven’t seen any articles on this site regarding filming for a couple of weeks back now. I’ve seen a few things on twitter that confirm/suggest a number of actors have finished filming for S8 this is what makes me wonder about who Emilia would film with. It’s of course possible she shows up in Kings Landing on a dragon but surely there should characters she would interact with and given a lot have finished it makes me wonder. I mean who would she be with Missandei, Jon, Cersei who else? Iain Glen was one who has meant to have finished as have Sophie, Joe Dempsey, John Bradley etc who you would think would be in Kings Landing at the end. Of course shots are not in sequence though so that could change a few things.
Enharmony1625,
Dempsie was full of praise for Maisie Williams (Arya). He’s hoping that she and Gendry end up together so he and Williams can work together again.”
This was from the panel Joe was on (he’s apparently done filming season 8), and I imagine he was just trolling.
___________________
No. Just no. Arya and Gendry should NOT end up together. And not just because I am anti-“shipping”, anti-coupling.*
I sure hope Joe D. was just “trolling.”
Four-part rant with reasons to follow within the next day or so.
* With the exception of Jaime & Brienne. That’s a real love story built up over six seasons that deserves a conclusion. Especially now that Jaime is finally (?) rid of that toxic shrew sister of his.
I think this is more telling than we know
Ten Bears,
I’ll just leave this here in the meantime. 🙂
Ten Bears,
Not to worry, Ten Bears. I thought he was evading spoilers so adroitly that almost everything he said about Season 8 was not particularly informative. His praise of Maisie and the fact his filming ended were. Mind, I’ve come around to Gendrya for various reasons, but I’m not counting on it.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
I’m not counting on it either. I don’t think it fits the trajectory of where Arya’s story is headed (namely resolving her revenge arc, and letting go of the anger and violence, and finding her true self). But.. in my little fanfic mind I like the idea of them together. They developed a friendship based on trust, understanding, and helping each other out.
And while I agree that Gendry was written as a bit of a douchebag in season 7, I’m going to take a wait-and-see approach to how he is in season 8 before forming a final opinion on him. In the meantime, they would make one helluva badass couple:
https://imgur.com/a/0eQmV0G
🙂
Stark Raven’ Rad,
You’ve got the wrong guy. Only one man has proved his mettle.
https://78.media.tumblr.com/2d45941ddac97e6579bfd21263671274/tumblr_otl6ni4O2a1unft2fo1_500.gif
Ten Bears,
I completely agree!
Ten Bears,
Agree again.
Maisie, JOhn Bradley and David Beinhoff were all at the UFC in Liverpool yesterday, perhaps John is not done with filming after all but Hannah Murray is.
John needs a nice bright summery day to film what I’m hoping will be the final scene of the entire series: Grandmaester Samwell handing over an illuminated copy of his history of the War for the Dawn, titled A Song of Ice and Fire, to Prime Minister Tyrion as they sit in his garden sipping flagons of Imp’s Delight. No compelling need for Gilly to be present on that mission.
I love Emilia!!!!!
I watched Solo last night, and besides the fact that it was awesome, Emilia was amazing in it!!!!!!!
I wanted more!
Emilia is NOT saying in VF that she’s worried about her acting as some think. She says the last scene creates a lasting impression on Dany as a character. Plus her saying Dany is doing a lot of weird shit this year. This does not sound good for Dany. Those thinking she’s talking about her acting are involved in wishful thinking. Simple as that!
Dee Stark,
If you can’t get enough of Emilia, and you haven’t seen it already, you should check out her Dolce & Gabanna “The One” fragrance TV commercial, filmed in Italy. (Kit H’s got one too.) I must have watched Emilia’s twenty times.
Firannion,
Are you suggesting that Prime Minister Tyrion will be the real political leader, and Queen Arya more of a figurehead?
Not precisely: Queen Arya will HAVE a figurehead, on her flagship, as she emulates her role model Queen Nymeria and leads her fleet of exploration westward across the Sunset Sea in search of new lands to conquer (and b———t dark chocolate to bring home, of course).
Dark sister brings dark chocolate to Westeros. Names it “Stark Chocolate”.
Jon Snowed,
I’ve never looked for season 8 story spoilers but I regretfully read some person’s one simple sentence comment on a facebook page writing what happens with Daenerys and if what this person posted does happen … season 8 will be beyond insane!
It is known. Those in fandom who keep complaining about overuse of the term “bittersweet” fail to appreciate the generosity of the hint that we are being offered about the saga’s ultimate denouement.
P.S: If my pet theory turns out to be true, I want full credit. Perhaps an offer to host a chocolate-tasting at next year’s Con of Thrones?
firstone,
No such leaks have occurred I think, so its probably fake
Enharmony1625,
Rant, Part 1 of 4
#SinkThatGendryAryaShip
• Gendry does not deserve Arya. He never bought her dinner, told her she was pretty, baked her a cake, or sent her a present. He never expressed concern about what happened to her since they parted in S3. He never stuck his neck out and put himself at risk to send help her way.
But I know someone who did….
You’re on!
I just don’t see an Arya Gendry partnership.
They will be friends but as young Arya said “That’s not me” to marriage.
When Hotpie asked her “what happened to you” she went quiet. I think she will carry too much emotional baggage to settle down to a quiet life.
Sansa is closer to Gendry in age and wanted to marry a king.
Enharmony1625,
Rant part 2
• Gendry does not deserve Arya. He flat out rejected her when she proposed “I can be your family.” He was more enamored with becoming a part of the all-male Brotherhood “family.”
(From S3e5)
Gendry: …. “These men are brothers. They’re a family. I’ve never had a family.”
Arya: “I can be your family.”
Gendry: “You wouldn’t be my family. You’d be ‘my lady’.”
What a tool. He may as well have answered: “Things are crazy busy at work with this new job; I don’t think I have time for a relationship right now”; or “that’s so sweet”; or “I love you as a friend”; or “I’m flattered, blah, blah, blah.”
If there was ever a Gendry-Arya “ship” …
He missed the boat.
🛳🏊🏻
OT but just returned from London to watch GOT concert and Isaac Hempstead – Wright made a surprise appearance. BTW we had an absolutely fantastic time.
Firannion,
That’s what the Con was missing: a chocolate tasting! I hope you do it next year.
Colin Armfield,
I’m not a strong ‘shipper’ except of Jaime and Brienne. But Gendry and Arya have mutually established affection and loyalty, and in the books each experience some jealousy regarding the other. As to “That’s not me”, Arya’s model was warrior queen Nymeria, and she wanted to rule a holdfast or be on the small council, etc. Most 9-YO tomboys who heard their father say their fate instead was to marry some powerful lord (chosen for them!!!) and raise sons who would get to have responsibility and adventures, would react like Arya did. (Lyanna probably felt the same way…until she met Rhaegar.) And her idea of being a lady was her mother and Sansa, who was praised by the Septa while Arya was constantly chastised. Also, left-handed Arya was no doubt forced to sew and write (and probably other things) right-handed, which wouldn’t help. Only later would she meet Brienne, Lyanna Mormont, and Lady Crane (and soon Dany)–all women of strength AND agency. I expect Arya would like to be that kind of lady, especially if she met (or re-met) a man who’d accept her idiosyncrasies. Gendry already has. Yes, maybe Arya has too much baggage, but so does Sansa, who’s only two years older. Anything can happen.
HelloThere,
Good I hope it is fake because I was OMG … I’ve got to be more careful not to read what people post on facebook and Youtube!
Now I’ve gone and done it: stuck my big foot in my big mouth. How quickly can I learn enough about gourmet chocolatery (TM) to be able to fake expertise semi-convincingly? And where does one find affordable sources? Am I prepared to embark on a new, entirely unrelated career this late in life?
Now I know how Arachne felt when Athene turned her into a spider for her hubris…
Ten Bears,
The Hound???????? I want to see Sansa change the Hounds mind about Gingers… also Gendry didn’t even ask about Arya when he met Jon Snow or tell Jon Snow that he knew Arya and spent a lot of time with her… Jon would have loved to hear about Arya. Gendry could of have easily mentioned Arya when Jon and Gendry were taking about their fathers in the Dragonstone cave or at Eastwatch or beyond the wall… But I wouldn’t bet that Gendry and Arya won’t ship.
firstone,
• Gendry’s conspicuous failure to mention or ask about Arya is in Parts 3 and 4 of my in-progress rant (that Gendry does not deserve Arya.)
•The person I was referring to in Part 1 above
(“Gendry does not deserve Arya. He never bought her dinner, told her she was pretty, baked her a cake, or sent her a present. He never expressed concern about what happened to her since they parted in S3. He never stuck his neck out and put himself at risk to send help her way.
But I know someone who did….”)…
was not Sandor. I think I identified who it was in my 5/28/18, 12:58 am comment.
• I’m all for Sandor showing to Sansa some of that vulnerability he revealed to Arya in S4e7, and maybe apologizing to Sansa for being so “hateful” when Sansa tried to thank him for saving her from the KL riot mob. That was such a chivalrous, heroic deed – going back out to brave the mayhem to rescue a damsel in distress – and he deflected her gratitude with his “killing is the sweetest thing there is”/”it gives me joy killing people” facade.
The poor fella is so damaged he couldn’t utter a simple “You’re welcome.” ☹️
Arya and Hot Pie is just absurd. He’s nice enough, but not particularly bright. Arya deserves someone to match her wits (not that she needs anyone at all.) I don’t blame Gendry for not just going with Arya – what would have happened then? Sandor would have got them both and sold him back. They both have grown up since.
Why should Sandor apologize (!) for not saying “you’re welcome” to a thank you. He saved her life, I think that had enough value in itself, and she was grateful for it without needing flowery false humility.
Why on earth should it be necessary for Arya to “end up” with anybody?
The modern world is full of happy singles – and Arya is a modern girl.
If she has to “end up” with someone, it could only be Hot Pie.
*Hot Arya Pie Ship*
^ Yas!
Ten Bears, I 100% concur with everything you said.
Not down for Gendrya…I’m shipping her with Hot Pie if they both survive (please!), and even if she’s like me and would prefer to remain happily single, then I surely hope they’ll remain good friends.
Pigeon,
Hot Pie & Arya wasn’t serious, but the critique of Gendry was.
Sandor could’ve said “no problem”; “all in a day’s work”; or just walked away from Sansa. Yes, saving her life had “enough value in itself.” But his unnecessarily nasty comments devalued it. I do not for one minute believe he was motivated to save her by the chance to enjoy sport-killing some people; or because “killing is the sweetest thing there is.”
As you probably know, Sandor’s my co-favorite character. I just thought his reaction to Sansa was part of his defense mechanism, and not what he truly felt.
Anyway, none of that will matter when he goes out in a blaze of glory – probably sacrificing his own life to save his Little Bird and Wolf Girl. (They’d better give Rory a memorable dying speech – something to bookend his first “farewell” speech in S4e10.)
Pigeon,
P.S. A couple of days ago, other commenters noted intentional parallels by GRRM to Beauty & the Beast in the Sansa-Sandor dynamic.
Is it just me, or did anyone else watching Sandor reassure Sansa “You’re alright Little Bird” as he picked her up and slung her over his shoulder find that to be incredibly romantic?
Oh I’m sure the shippers that I avoid thought it was extremely romantic. But I don’t need more indigestion.
After all, Gilly found it pretty sexy when Sam got beaten up defending her from would-be rapists as well. Can’t say I’d feel the same way after a trauma, but hey, fiction.
Pigeon,
You’re right. I sounded insensitive to the trauma aspect of that scene.
Ten Bears,
It seems a little odd to me that Millennials tend to react to May/December romances as inherently creepy. I don’t think they have to be, so long as there’s no power dynamic that keeps them from being completely consensual. I know that as a young woman, I was utterly uninterested in men who weren’t at least five years older than me, preferably more. And it wasn’t because of money or prestige; they were mostly just hippies like myself, only a little more experienced in the wider world and therefore more interesting company. (This predilection no longer works so well now that I am in my 60s and men who are ‘the right age for me’ and not already taken are either decrepit or chasing women 25 years younger, if not both.)
But for contemporary youth, there seems to be a knee-jerk reaction of ‘Eeeeeewww!’ to suggestions that Sansa and Sandor might end up together, or Dany and Jorah. I don’t really see why not, even while wearing my feminist hat. Maybe it’s because I find both actors appealing (not to mention silver fox Liam), and probably would have even at 20.
So yeah, I see what you’re seeing re: Sandor’s gallantry. But expect a lot of pushback, alas.
Can’t say I found the Hound thing romantic (and it’s never occurred to me to ship him with Sansa or really anybody), but Sam sexy? Sure.
I too have always found older men much more attractive (usually 20-30+ years older than myself!) And I do like the idea of Jorah/Dany (poor Ser Friendzone!! xD; )
Enharmony1625,
Rant, Part 3 of 4
#TorpedoThat GendryAryaShip
(Hey sorry. I know parts of this are redundant.)
• Gendry doesn’t deserve Arya, and there’s been
no setup for a Gendry-Arya romantic subplot in S8.
• Gendry spent nearly two years with Arya (S1e10 – S3e6). During that time, she saved his life with her quick thinking when Amory Lorch and the Gold Cloaks came back to execute the royal warrant for him. Her unselfishness and brilliance freed him from Harrenhal prison camp, where he was “wondering every day if [he’d] get tortured or killed.”
• Mel and her dweebs carted off Gendry, and he hadn’t seen Arya since. When he returned in S7, not once did he inquire about Arya or even utter her name. (On the other hand, he would not shut up about his encounter with Melisandre.)
• Upon introducing himself to her brother Jon in S7e5, Gendry did not ask about Arya or mention her at all. All he did was mention that he saw Ned once in Tobho Mott’s shop. And then Gendry sought to “bond” with Jon by teasing that Jon’s much shorter than Ned. Ha ha. The natural impulse – even if only to “bond” with Jon rather than express genuine concern – would’ve been to introduce himself as his sister’s close friend and recount how she’d saved his ass more than once during their two years on the road together.
He showed no concern or curiosity about her welfare or whereabouts in the four years since they parted. When he met her brother in S7 and had the chance to ask about her or at least name-drop her to gain some credibility with the KitN, he engaged in meaningless banter about their respective fathers’ height and weight.
Not a single word about the girl who cared so much about him. He forgot all about her:
(S7e5 on Dragonstone: Gendry introduces himself to Jon)
Gendry: “Name’s Gendry, Your Grace. I’m Robert Baratheon’s son. Bastard son.”
Davos: “He was meant to keep that to himself.”
Gendry: “Our fathers trusted each other. Why shouldn’t we?”
Jon: “I saw your father once at Winterfell.”
Gendry: “I met yours in my shop.”
Jon: “You’re a lot leaner.”
Gendry: “And you’re a lot shorter.”
Gendry saw Ned Stark once, for less than five minutes. Gendry spent roughly two years with Arya Stark and became her close friend and confidante, from the time they left KL with the NW recruits in S1e10 until S3e6 when the BwoB sold him to Melisandre. But for Arya’s bravery and cleverness, Gendry would’ve suffered the fate of the other Baratheon bastards. Thanks to Arya’s creative thinking in parlaying 1 death owed by Jaqen into 2 deaths + 3 escapes, Gendry was able to walk right out of Harrenhal** and the constant threat of being tortured or killed. Arya tried to intervene on his behalf and got up in Melisandre’s face when the Brotherhood gave/sold Gendry to the Red Witch in S3e6: “You’re a witch! You’re going to hurt him!”
(Gendry should have trusted Arya’s instincts in S3e5 – “Have you lost your mind!” – when he told her he intended to stay on with the Brotherhood.).
If Gendry wanted to “bond” with Jon, tell him about his sister. Ask him about her. Recount their shared experiences and how she saved his ass. Instead of invoking their dead fathers’ supposed relationship*, rely on something real and personal like: “Your sister and I trusted each other. Why shouldn’t we?” At least show some concern about what happened to her. But nope. Nothing. Just a cheap dig about Jon’s height.
[By the way, I have not discounted the suggestion by one commenter that Gendry was abiding by his promise to not reveal “Arry’s” real identity: In early S2, after Gendry called her out on being a girl, “Arry” told him she was Arya Stark but “no one can know.” He replied: “They won’t. Not from me.” However, her cover was “blown” when Sandor recognized her with the BwoB. And common sense says that preserving the “Arry” NW recruit ruse didn’t apply four years later when conversing with her brother, the newly-crowned KitN – especially after saying they could trust each other. ]
If the show were going to have the two of them hook up, it should’ve been organically presented as part of their storylines – like Jaime & Brienne. But there’s been nothing to presage Gendry + Arya, and having a guy to “complete” her would be antithetical to everything about her character. She doesn’t need to marry a high lord (or anyone else) and rule his castle, or have sons who’ll be knights and princes.
* “Our fathers trusted each other.” Yeah right. How ironic. If Gendry knew the truth instead of spouting second-hand nonsense he would have said:
“Your supposed “father” didn’t trust mine; he lied to him and deceived him for twenty years – about himself and about you. Then when my father was on his death bed your “father” forged my father’s will. My father killed your real father by caving in his chest with a war hammer after your father stole my father’s fiancée and knocked her up. If my father were alive today he’d kill you on sight and mount your head on a spike.
So why shouldn’t we trust each other?”
🤣😆
** “I’m not joking. A man can go kill himself.”
Well played, Princess. 👸🏻
Well really, Iain Glen is the finest man on the show in my opinion, and he’s 20 years older than me. Older men just have more of an appeal to me as well, always have. I give Tom Wlaschiha a pass even though he’s less than a decade past me. 😜
Remember that this is TV, and a lot of the expositional conversations happen offscreen. All we saw was an awkward first meeting, in which Gendry appears to be deciding on the spur of the moment to ignore Davos’ advice and reveal his true identity, trusting in what he knows of their supposed fathers’ friendship. We don’t know what discussions about Arya ended up on the cutting-room floor. The showrunners are leaving out LOTS of significant character development in their race against time. I personally will withhold my own judgments about what’s canon here until the book version comes out.
Ten Bears:
To get the facts straight, this is what Joe Dempsie actually said about a Gendry-Arya reunion question:
„It‘s [a reunion] that I‘d love to see as well because I said back when we were shooting Season 1, 2, 3 that Maisie is one of the best actors I‘ve ever worked with. Hands down and I mean back then she was, what, 12, 13. And I didn‘t mean one of the best young actors I‘ve worked with, I meant one of the best actors and so, yeah, to get the chance to work opposite her again would be fantastic for me. That‘s my personal take on it. And I think in fan-terms so much has happened to both of them in intervening years it would be fascinating to see what they‘d made of each other.“
He never said anything about hoping that the both characters end up together and he wasn‘t trolling. The poor bloke (or his character) always gets a free rant from you Ten Bears, you are so jelly, it is actually funny again. 😂
Ten Bears, Part 1
If we go with this silly bickering, I have also one or two points:
• He also never molested, threatened or frightened tiny little Arya (unlike a certain someone).
• And he also never got the chance to tell her that she looks pretty all grown up (unlike a certain someone), never got the chance to smith something for her and bring her weapons as presents.
• Arya also never again expressed concern about what happened to Gendry since S3. She never stuck her neck out and put herself at risk to send help his way…and you know why? Because she couldn‘t, same as Gendry. There never came a Brienne of Tarth his way which asked him about a Stark girl.
Ten Bears, Part 2
There never was a Gendry-Arya ship that „Gendry could have missed“ or that could be tanked by anyone. Neither Gendry nor Arya were supposed to have a relationship at that point. First it‘s improper at that time. And second Arya‘s proposal was not meant as a „Do you want to be my boyfriend? Yes? Maybe? No?“. Come on! His character was being realistic with her. He didn‘t „flat out rejected“ her. He was stating the truth, she would have been his lady, not her family. And mind you, Hot Pie left Arya long before Gendry decided to stay with the Brotherhood without Banners, a bread as a parting gift does not alter that fact.
firstone,
Ten Bears, Part 3 & 4 (sort of)
I already commented on the „failure“ to mention her, so let me debunk this for you before you even get started on this again:
S3E6 – S7E6
„You‘re a witch“ – „You sold me to a witch.“
„He wants to be one of you.“ – „I wanted to be one of you.“
„He wants to join the brotherhood.“ – „I wanted to join the brotherhood.“
The writers are very well aware of Arya‘s and Gendry‘s impending reunion. They wrote Gendry‘s part in Eastwatch with Arya‘s words from Season 3 in mind. That means they didn‘t let him talk about her on purpose. My guess is that they wanted to ramp up the anticipation for the reveal to the other characters that they know each other. The same goes for the other characters in this party which are acquainted with Arya. Means there could be a Holy-Shit-You-Know-Her-Fest/reveal scene in Season 8.
Therefore my headcanon is that Gendry told no one about Arya, because she made him promise that back in Season 2: https://youtu.be/nQgv8d-bjHs?t=2m56s
So until now he kept his word. Give this bloke a f*cking break, would you? 😎
You know I don‘t count on a Gendry-Arya romance. But I also do not discount it either.
And for the record:
I agree with Pigeon. A Hot Pie and Arya ship is just absurd. If you didn‘t remember, she walked out on him and her expression didn’t really scream „Let’s be a thing“. Rather „Bye!“.
And a Gendry and Sansa ship is just absurd too. Because of their appearances and experiences there is no way they would go near each other. At least that would be unrealistic to me.
I think any Arya conversation would’ve been too important to cut or omit (definitely more important than what they included, heheh.)
But yessss, Iain is a fine, fine man…26 years my senior, but that doesn’t even matter or register with me. And Tom, despite being a mere 14 years older than me, is a hottie too. Ugh, honestly, I’m attracted to so many of the men (Kit & Nikolaj, but also Tom & Iain, Kristofer, Richard Dormer, Conleth, Jason Momoa…ooh, Ian McElhinney was very good-looking………)
The cast is just too full of beautiful people. Most shows there isn’t even one person I find especially attractive. Here it’s like, the majority. XD Even some of the characters I hate are, I’ll readily admit, played by nice-looking guys.
Who said that? Not one comment said anything like that last bit. No one down here thinks she needs someone to be complete her.
And for the organically growing part: There is also Jonerys, which happened within 5 episodes and they didn’t know each other at all before they met.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t insist on this “ship”. I just find it silly to discount it all together when there are clearly some points to be made that it could happen.
And I agree, she doesn’t need to marry a high lord (or anyone else) and rule his castle, or have sons who’ll be knights and princes. But there still could develope a romantic relationship without that “crap”. Or not…either way, it wouldn’t surprise me.
P.S.: As I said, D&D clearly conveyed that they didn’t forget about Gendry and Arya knowing each other (S3E6 – S7E6), they made him not talk about her on purpose (same with the other guys). The promise is just my headcanon/explanation for that.
FYI, my first (long) comment is stuck in moderation.
Enharmony1625,
Rant, Part 4
#AryaNeedsNoOne
(Continued from Part 3)
•Maybe it’s possible that between Gendry’s introduction to Jon on Dragonstone in S7e5 and the next scene at Eastwatch (in the cells), Jon conveyed to Gendry off-screen that he’d thought Arya was dead but had just learned via raven that she was alive.
Either way, if Gendry found out that someone he purportedly cared about but hadn’t seen or heard from since their sudden separation four years earlier, was in fact alive, you’d think he’d be curious about what happened to her. That’s just human nature. If there’s even the spark of romantic interest, surely he’d want some details about those intervening four years (from S3e6 to S7e5) in which they were incommunicado.
He showed no interest at all.
• Gendry knew Arya had been left with the Lord of Light zealots who – in Gendry’s own words – had betrayed him and sold him off like a slave to a red witch to be murdered because their “Lord” commanded it. (And let’s assume Davos didn’t mention to Gendry that the Lord of Light supposedly commands followers to burn children.) .
• Later in S7e5, Jon, Tormund, Gendry et al. went down to the Eastwatch cells to see the men Tormund had intercepted and detained: Beric, Thoros and Sandor. Gendry recognized the Brotherhood, but did not ask what they had done with their hostage Arya. Instead, he was fixated on himself, what the Brotherhood had done to him, and his encounter with Melisandre:
(from S7e5)
Jon: “You’re the Hound. I saw you once at Winterfell.”
Tormund: “They want to go beyond the Wall, too.”
Beric: “We don’t want to go beyond the Wall, we have to. Our Lord told us that the Great War is coming– ”
Gendry: “Don’t trust him. Don’t trust any of them.
They’re the Brotherhood. And the last thing their Lord told them to do was sell me to a red witch to be murdered.”
***
Not a single mention, question or expression of concern about Arya – or what the Brotherhood did to her or with her. (His diatribe about how he wanted to be one of the Brotherhood but they betrayed him, continued on unabated in the next episode, S7e6 “Beyond the Wall.” You’d think at some point he’d wonder to himself and ask out loud: “If the Brotherhood could do this to me – sell me to a witch to be assaulted, bled and murdered – what did they do to the young girl I was with?” Nope. No curiosity or concern for her.)
• If Gendry were worthy of Arya, or even a decent friend, that scene at Eastwatch should’ve played out something like this:
Jon: “You’re the Hound. I saw you once at a Winterfell…. Wait! Weren’t you thrown off a cliff to your death? Did the Lord of Light resurrect you too?”
Sandor: Not quite. But these fire worshippers told me their Lord isn’t done with me yet. Though your crazy little sister almost got me killed chasing after that sword “Needle” you gave her.”
Jon: “Arya still has Needle?”
Sandor: “She ran into a tavern with five Lannister soldiers inside to steal it back from the c*nt who stole it from her. We had to kill all five of those f*ckers.”
(Jon, aside to Davos: “Did he say ‘we’?”‘)
Sandor (to Jon): “Do you know what happened to her? Did she find her way home? And your pretty sister Sansa – Where is she? Is the Little Bird alright?”
Jon: “They’re both in Winterfell.”
Gendry: “Arya made it to Winterfell?”
Jon: “How do you know her?”
Gendry: “With her for nearly two years. She saved my life. Twice.”
Beric: “She may’ve been the bravest one among us.”
Jon: “You know her too?”
Beric: “Aye. After she helped that jittery lad standing next to you escape from Harrenhal.
Thoros: “She’s a dangerous person. I like dangerous people.”
Jon: “She is? You do?”
Gendry: “Arya and I were with them – until their “Lord” told them to sell me to a red witch to be murdered. They were going to sell Arya to her relatives.”
Gendry (to Beric): “What happened to her? What did you do with her?”
Gendry (to Sandor): “Why was she with you?”
Sandor: “I was watching over her after she ran away from this bald-headed c*cksucker and his band of outlaws.”
Beric: “And now, here we all are at the edge of the world at the same moment, heading in the same direction for the same reason. It doesn’t matter what we think our reasons are. There’s a greater purpose at work. And we serve it together, whether we know it or not. We may take the steps, but the Lord of Light–”
Sandor: “For f*ck’s sake, will you shut your hole? We’re trying to have a conversation here about the Wolf Girl, not your c*nt Lord.”
Jon: “Is there anybody here who doesn’tknow my sister?” (Few raised hands)
Gendry (sheepishly, to Sandor): “Did she mention me at all?”
Sandor: “Well there is a Red Witch on her kill list. You should take that as a good sign.”
Firannion,
Honestly, I didn’t consider the actors’ age difference, particularly now that Sophie’s an adult and Rory as Sandor… I can’t even tell how old he is or is supposed to be. (Are they closer in age on the books?)
Another thing: I view Sandor’s character more as a guardian than a potential “boyfriend.” Relationships can be fluid like that. They don’t have to fit into the “let’s fall in love and be a couple” template.
Ehrm…you wouldn’t happen to be an ‘I, Claudius’ fan, would you?
You just gave me a serious flashback to Brian Blessed as Augustus Caesar in a roomful of embarrassed centurions, throwing his hands in the air and yelling, ‘Is there any man in Rome who HASN’T slept with my daughter???’
Firannion,
I understand about off screen conversations and economy of dialogue. It’s just that it’d be human nature when meeting someone to ask about the well-being of a person you both know well – particuiarly if she’d just turned up alive after being MIA for years.
The show did such a wonderful job with Arya & Gendry (and Arya saving Gendry) during S2 and S3. It’s as if S7 Gendry’s buzzcut erased all memory of his time spent with Arya. His personality changed too. Not sure what that was all about.
Firannion,
No. Never seen “I Claudius.”
I just found it odd that in “Eastwatch” there was an assembly of characters who collectively, could provide a detailed, continuous chronology of Arya Stark’s travels and who she was with from the time she was last seen in KL at the end of S1 through the end of S4.Almost everyone knew her well and thought well of her, yet nobody mentioned her at all.
Ten Bears,
First of all, there are certainly a number of things that we can agree on. First and foremost is that Arya does not need Gendry (or anyone) to complete her or augment her character in any way, shape, or form. She is a totally complete and wonderful character all on her own! The best, I’d say. The very best!
Gendry’s lack of mentioning Arya to either Jon or Sandor (but especially Jon) is very strange. Even Beric and Thoros for that matter. Gendry, Beric, Thoros, Sandor all have one thing in common with Jon: Arya. And no one says a thing. But it’s as much of a writing mystery as it is a character mystery, so I think it’s a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to pounce on it so strongly before we know more. D&D and Cogman have spoken about the difficulty of writing these reunion scenes, and how they want to avoid it being a “recap”, or filler. Who knows, maybe they felt it would be too tricky to navigate the dialogue around these 4 people who all have a connection to Arya. Maybe they felt it would have opened a can of worms that would have bogged down the scene, or group of scenes, that they wanted to portray. Or perhaps is a deliberate reason behind it and we’ll find out in season 8. Who knows.. that’s why I’m taking a wait-and-see approach on this before making a final judgement call.
One thing I must respectfully disagree with you on, though, is your take on their scene in 3×05 (“I can be your family!”). I don’t see that as a rejection at all. I think there’s far more nuance to that scene than that. Arya feels a kind of comfort with Gendry around because he reminds her of Robb and Jon, and here she is out on her own having lost her father and trying desperately to get back to her family. Her caring for him is both on a brother & sister level, and also with some undercurrents of feelings that might go beyond that. She might not even be aware at that moment what she’s asking him, or how it’s coming across, only that she wants him to stay with her. Gendry’s response makes it clear that he cares about her too, but he sees it as going off to serve someone else. Maybe Arya’s vision of how this would go is naive, and Gendry sees that. And after what he’s been through, he doesn’t want to go off and serve someone else. “That’s not me.” At that point in time, they were on different paths. Or put another way, Arya was really thinking about herself and what she wanted, not what Gendry wanted.
Ultimately my Gendrya shipping is really just me wanting something nice for her after all the sh*t she’s been through. Now, whether that’s Gendry or that’s her sailing West or running wild and exploring, or staying in Winterfell; any of those would be fine with me. I’m not desperately hoping for Gendrya to be a thing, I just loved their interactions and the bond they formed during their time together, and I would love to see that develop into something nice in Arya’s life. That’s all. 🙂 But it doesn’t have to, and likely won’t, so..
I guess it just surprises me that there is so much pushback on it from some people given that there was a real substantive bond between them, and that there could be real meaning in their reunion.
Cliohna,
“Who said that? Not one comment said anything like that last bit. No one down here thinks she needs someone to be complete her,”
———-
Nobody here said that. Arya herself said that to Ned. He told her she’ll marry a high lord and rule his castle, etc., and that’s when she told him. “No. That’s not me ”
That’s what I was referring to. I shouid’ve made it clearer. Arya’s own vision of her life does not depend on marrying some bozo and serving as his homemaker and incubator.
Besides, a person can only sweep so many floors in a single lifetime. Arya already reached her quota during her stay in Braavos.
Enharmony1625,
Gendry interpreted Arya’s statement “I can be your family” to mean he’d have to serve her?
Maybe I missed what was going on there. At first I thought his reply (paraphrasing). “You wouldn’t be my family. You’d be my Lady” was a class consciousness thing – because she was “highborn” and he was just a bastard from Flea Bottom. Then I thought he was just blowing her off – because he knows Arya doesn’t care about that “lords” and “ladies” crap.
Finally, I thought he might have gotten taken in by the hippie commune philosophy of the Brotherhood.
F*ck. Now I’m confused. All I know is that I saw two people alone in the world with no other family – but had each other – and one said to the other “I can be your family.” The correct answer was “okay,”
(Meanwhile, every time there’s a “Brotherhood” on tts show. the so-called “brothers” wind up betraying each other, killing each other, selling out each other, or abandoning each other.)
Ten Bears,
Oh, TB, I’m literally crying with laughter at your Rant Part 4. The dialogue and situation are priceless. This will forever be my headcanon for 7.05-6. The show absolutely should have featured a group conversation about Arya, whom most of them had in common. And Gendry should have asked Jon about her. I was bitterly disappointed that neither happened. Having read the leaks about the expedition including so many men who liked and respected Arya, I expected a brilliant Arya tribute moment. Alas, not so. But there are reasons D&D may have chosen to frustrate us. From a storytelling point of view, they probably wanted to focus on the thrill of the Magnificent 7’s perilous undertaking. They also needed to show why these strangers were willing to die for each other, so they emphasised their classic male bonding (which is seldom about a woman). Had anyone brought up Arya, it probably would have become a five-way conversation, which would distract from the gravity of their mission.
But there’s little excuse for Gendry choosing to bond with Jon over Ned rather than the Stark who was his close companion for two years. Arya had even gamely tried to protect him from Melisandre herself! No doubt citing Ned’s acquaintance was more manly, and perhaps Gendry assumed that King Jon would disapprove of a lowborn bastard being friendly with his sister. Or if Arya were dead by now, it could open old wounds for her brother. And of course by using the King’s bastard opening gambit, he was being politically astute by emphasising that he was not just some no-name blacksmith. He established his credentials with Jon, but tarnished them with me.
Arya doesn’t need a man to be complete. And they might not get together. But she is the most loving of all the Starks. She has made many friends, gave up Nymeria because she loved her, and even made herself a target for the FM because she liked Lady Crane. People who readily give love deserve it and often desire to receive it. You may not know that Book Arya constantly worried whether anyone–especially her mum–would love her if they learned she had killed people. She had a huge inferiority complex and vulnerability which are de-emphasised by the show yet beautifully conveyed by Maisie. So if Ardrey does happen, it will be a relief for the audience in part because it was so solidly established and then ignored (like Arya’s relationship with Jon–which is built on only one scene!). Maisie said in a recent interview that Arya was capable of taking care of herself but would appreciate someone looking out for her. Gendry may have acted like a knob with Jon, but he’s probably the only highborn in Westeros who would let Arya be Arya. And she is surely the only highborn who would not secretly look down on his original status. In her very first chapter, Septa Mordane gripes about Arya’s sewing and tells her she has the hands of a blacksmith. Maybe she will.
Firannion,
We don’t know what discussions about Arya ended up on the cutting-room floor. The showrunners are leaving out LOTS of significant character development in their race against time.”
___________
Umm. That’s not a good thing. Right?
I think of Arya as being similar to Merida from Brave–not growing up dreaming of romance and love, not very interested in that, not in need of it, and *certainly* not willing to form that kind of relationship for any reason other than her own free will. Of course it’s possible for them to genuinely fall in love with someone in their own time and choose to be with them. (I’m not expecting/hoping for it to be Gendry if that does happen, but we shall see.)
Cliohna,
“As I said, D&D clearly conveyed that they didn’t forget about Gendry and Arya knowing each other (S3E6 – S7E6), they made him not talk about her on purpose (same with the other guys). The promise is just my headcanon/explanation for that.”
______________
When and where did they “clearly convey” this? Why would they make Gendry not talk about her “on purpose”? Wouldn’t the dialogue then seem unnatural?
I’m really curious what they said.
Ten Bears,
Not precisely that line, but earlier in that conversation Arya says to Gendry “Robb needs good men too,” to which Gendry replies “What? Serve him?” When she says “I can be your family,” maybe what she’s saying is essentially something along the lines of “it won’t be like that.” Maybe she’s thinking that he’d be like a brother to her, a friend, or something more. That line is loaded with meaning, and open to interpretation, which is why I love it so much. But then Gendry is saying that “it will be like that,” and after what he’s been through, that’s not what he wants. He’s trying to break free of servitude and find his place in the world, and it sadly just doesn’t align with what Arya wants at that time.
Ten Bears,
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
(Sorry, that’s all I can manage after a 3.5-hour flight, 5-hour drive, Con decompression, and realization that I must be back at work in nine hours.)
This!
Also, Arya taking Gendry and Hot Pie with her when she escaped Harrenhal was definitely the right thing to do and saved their lives BUT Arya’s motives weren’t purely unselfish. She wanted them to be her pack, so about what Arya wants.
I also found it a bit odd that none of the several characters never mentioned Arya in S7 – though Sandor did, later, to Brienne. However, we viewers know what happened to Arya during all this time so we don’t need a scene/scenes of several characters recapping it for us. Now, some mention could’ve been made as foreshadowing (or just a reminder) of Arya’s relationship with a character, e.g. Gendry. We’ll have to wait and see how it all turns out.
I’m pretty neutral about Arya/Gendry, don’t care either way, but then I’m not all that invested in Arya. I don’t want a horrible ending for her or anything like that, I’m just a bit meh.
talvikorppi,
…”I’m not all that invested in Arya. I don’t want a horrible ending for her or anything like that, I’m just a bit meh.”
_____________________
Oh come on, you can admit it. You’re a closet fan of Arya Super Ninja Assassin Warrior Princess Fantasies.
Ten Bears,
My first long comment seemingly got lost all together. I will post this original comment in parts, as you did with your rant. 😉 Thank god I saved it! Here we go:
Part 1
To get the facts straight, this is what Joe Dempsie actually said to the Gendry-Arya reunion question:
“Personally it’s [a reunion] I’d love to see as well because I said, back when we were shooting Season 1, 2, 3, I think Maisie is one of the best actors in the world, hands down. And I mean back then she was, what, 12, 13? And I didn’t mean one of the best young actors I’ve worked with, I meant one of the best actors and so, yeah, to get the chance to work opposite her again it’d be fantastic for me, so that’s my personal take on it. And I think in fan-terms I think so much has happened to both of them in the intervening years that it would be fascinating to see what they’d made of each other.”
He was never talking about hoping that they’d end up together, and he wasn’t trolling. He repeated a sincere compliment from back then.
You know, Ten Bears, you always give this poor bloke (or his character) a free rant, it’s cringy, but on the other hand you seem so jelly that it’s really funny again. 😂
Ten Bears,
Part 2
If we go with this silly bickering, I have also one or two points:
• He also never molested, threatened or frightened tiny little Arya (on the contrary).
• And he also never got the chance to tell her that she looks pretty all grown up (unlike a certain someone), never got the chance to smith something for her and bring her weapons as presents.
• Arya also never again expressed concern about what happened to Gendry since S3. She never stuck her neck out and put herself at risk to send help his way…and you know why? Because she couldn‘t, same as Gendry. There never came a Brienne of Tarth his way which asked him about a Stark girl.
Ten Bears,
Part 3
There never was a Gendry-Arya ship that „Gendry could have missed“ or that could be tanked by anyone. Neither Gendry nor Arya were supposed to have a relationship at that point. First it‘s improper at that time. And second Arya‘s proposal was not meant as a „Do you want to be my boyfriend? Yes? Maybe? No?“. Come on! His character was being realistic with her. He didn‘t „flat out“ rejected her. He was stating the truth, she would have been his lady, not her family. And mind you, Hot Pie left Arya long before Gendry decided to stay with the Brotherhood without Banners, a bread as a parting gift does not alter that fact.
I believe that some conversations happen off screen. For instance, I’m assuming Arya, Brienne, Sansa and Bran have discussed The Hound. How could they not. But as for Gendry and Arya, I think that while Gendry had a protective sense about Arya when they first met, it was more brother/sister, especially if I consider their age differences back when they first met. Personally, Gendry, IMO would have to see Arya with new eyes now, since she is a young woman when before she was scarcely more than a child. So while they have shared history, they would both have to navigate new emotional territory, however that works out. My own personal theory about Arya, is that she’ll continue to operate as an assassin where ever she ends up. She could stay at Winterfell between assignments. LOL! But I’m also bothered that it seems Gendry hasn’t mentioned her to Jon. Because didn’t she tell Gendry and Hot Pie they were going to go North to Jon at Castle Black?
Ten Bears,
Here we have the part where your question is answered:
Part 4
I already commented on the „failure“ to mention her, so let me debunk this for you:
S3E6 – S7E6
„You‘re a witch“ – „You sold me to a witch.“
„He wants to be one of you.“ – „I wanted to be one of you.“
„He wants to join the brotherhood.“ – „I wanted to join the brotherhood.“
The writers are very well aware of Arya‘s and Gendry‘s impending reunion. They wrote Gendry‘s part in Eastwatch with Arya‘s words from Season 3 in mind. That means they didn‘t let him talk about her on purpose. My guess is that they wanted to ramp up the anticipation for the reveal to the other characters that they know each other. The same goes for the other characters in this party which are acquainted with Arya. Means there could be a Holy-Shit-You-Know-Her-Fest/reveal scene in Season 8.
Therefore my headcanon is that Gendry told no one about Arya, because she made him promise that back in Season 2: https://youtu.be/nQgv8d-bjHs?t=2m56s
So until now he kept his word. Give this bloke a f*cking break, would you? 😎
[And as I said, it’s only my explanation for it. I didn’t say it made total sense.]
You know I don‘t count on a Gendry-Arya romance. But I also do not discount it either.
And for the record:
I agree with Pigeon. A Hot Pie and Arya ship is just absurd. If you didn‘t remember, she walked out on him. „Bye!“ [I saw that you made clear, you weren’t serious about that. 😉 ]
And also a Gendry and Sansa ship is just absurd too. Because of their appearances and experiences there is no way they would go near each other. At least that would be unrealistic to me.
That’s what I had in mind in my Part 3. All these shippers who think “You wouldn’t be my family, you would be m’lady” was meant as a romantic innuendo…fair enough, but I DON’T think so, only from Arya’s part a little, but not really deliberately.
What I do think needs to happen in Season 8 at the least, and this is my headcanon again 😁 , he really has to tell her that he should have listened to her back then, with the BWB, that she was right, that her gut feeling about Melisandre and the BWB was spot on.
👏👏👏
I always wondered why the fans of this “ship” didn’t call it Arry. 😂
This!
And this!
👏👏👏
Well they did, as I wrote in my Part 4 comment. That’s why I think D&D didn’t want Arya to be mentioned yet. I mean, it’s too obvious that she wasn’t mentioned by anyone in this party or by Gendry in Episode 5.
Now my spam has ended! 😳😬
Ten Bears,
Haha, TB, I knew you’d bite 😉
It’s actually these super ninja assassin warrior princess tendencies the show emphasises that have made me less interested in Show!Arya. I feel that kind of reduces her personality, makes her more one-dimensional and cliche. But we have one season to go, so things can change. 🙂 And I absolutely think she will have an important role to play in the end game – we probably disagree on how important and in what manner, though. 🙂
When I first got into the show and books (S3 binge, then S1-S2 binge, then reading all the books before watching S4 and all the rest realtime), Arya was one of my favourites. However, the way the show has handled her story since S5 has seen me lose interest/investment. For instance, her Braavos storyline is much more interesting in the books (you’re in for a real treat if/when you read the books!), and it hasn’t concluded yet. Needless to say it’s NOT about stick-fighting with the Waif.
That said, re-reading the books (I’ve now read them 5-6 times) has also reduced my Arya “fangirling”. In my latest re-reads I often found her annoying. At times bratty, willful, self-centered, judgemental, deceitful, even – gasp! – dishonourable, and plain wrong in some of her assessments. Now, for me this is a richness, she’s a more complex and therefore more interesting character because she isn’t “all good”. But, gods, she can be so annoying at times!
As an example, I give you something I only noticed last week, when I decided to read the books in translation to my language (before, I’ve only read the English originals). In her very first POV chapter, in the very first few pages, Arya blames Sansa for something she (Arya) did herself. I went back to the English originals to see if it really was so. Yup. I’ll put the rest in spoilers in case you don’t want to know book details.
“Arya wanted to scream. It was just like Sansa to go and attract the septa’s attention.”
It then goes on to Arya running out of the room, seeking Jon to watch Robb and Bran sparring with Joff and Tommen etc.
Now, Sansa and her friends weren’t being particularly nice in this book scene but GRRM made a point of writing they whispered or spoke softly and Arya says her thing “much too loudly. Her voice cut through the afternoon quiet of the tower room. Septa Mordane raised her eyes…” Moments later Arya (in her thoughts) blames Sansa for attracting the septa’s attention. That’s not what happened, it was Arya and her temper but in her mind she ignores what really happened and blames her sister for her own mistake. I think this is an important clue to the sisters’ relationship at that stage, and even later.
Oops, sorry for the overly long post. 😀
Cliohna,
Thanks for clearing up the quote from Joe! It looks like the quote from WiC is worded in a very misleading way. Instead of saying that he hopes they “end up together,” it should have been that he hopes they “reunite” or “see each other again.”
All good points! And in the books, Arya never thinks of Gendry again after they part ways.
I’ve thought about this as well. Maybe they want their reunion to be a WTF moment of surprise. It still doesn’t explain why no one mentioned her in their quest beyond The Wall, but.. hell, I don’t know what’s going on in the minds of the writers. 🙂
Definitely agree! I just really want Gendry to be shocked when he sees her all grown up and able to take care of herself. She always talked and acted big back when they were travelling together, but now she can back it up and then some!
Cliohna,
Hey, Cliohna, thanks for your insightful and interesting parts 1 – 4 posts.
I know Ten Bears thinks everybody, including Gendry, should unreservedly love and adore the super ninja assassin warrior princess (TB, this is a good-natured dig at you, no malice intended, I quite like your extreme Arya fanboying 😉 ) but you, Cliohna, laid out your counter arguments quite well. Thank you.
Cliohna,
“What I do think needs to happen in Season 8 at the least, and this is my headcanon again 😁 , he really has to tell her that he should have listened to her back then, with the BWB, that she was right, that her gut feeling about Melisandre and the BWB was spot on.”
__________________
That we can agree on. 🙂
I’ll take it a step further. In my “headcanon”/fanfic scenario, two prior possible foreshadowings may converge:
• First, in both S7e5 and again in more graphic detail in S7e6, Gendry made it clear that even after 3-4 years, was still angry and distressed about what Melisandre has done and tried to do to him. (Sandor called it “whinging.” Maybe there was a narrative purpose for reminders in back-to-back episodes that Gendry is definitely not a member of the Red Witch Fan Club.)
• In what I understand was a show-only, non-books scene, Arya’s (accurate) condemnation of Melisandre (“You’re a witch! You’re going to hurt him!”) was followed by Melisandre’s weird response about “eyes you will shut forever” and her forecast: “We will meet again.”
• As “Clovis”, Gendry’s cover story was supposed to be that he was traveling north with Davos to work as a smith in the forges of Winterfell .
Although Melisandre was banished from the North under pain of execution, maybe she will sneak back (as GeezerMel?) thinking no one will recognize her. But No One does. 👸🏻
[Warning: graphic description to follow]♨️
Somehow, Mel winds up impaled on Needle, flame-broiling in the fires of Gendry’s forge. [“Feel ‘purified’ yet?”]
A Witch-Ke-Bob, if you will.
(I’ll see myself out.)
#JusticeForShireen
talvikorppi,
“TB, this is a good-natured dig at you, no malice intended.”
—————-
Oh, I know. It’s all in good fun! 😉
talvikorppi,
But hey, thanks for the Arya tee shirt idea!
A picture like this on one side…
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b3/95/3c/b3953cfddf475da3bb1707c86b4f2fbe.jpg
… and on the other side, the words, “I unreservedly love and adore the Super Ninja Assassin Warrior Princess.”
talvikorppi,
Couldn’t agree with you more about Arya – both that her show version is rather one-dimensional, and also that her book version is actually much brattier than many people seem to recognize – most of all Arya herself. But she’s still very appealing, because she’s 9 years old and struggling in the wake of an elder sister who accomplishes everything she’s “supposed to” with ease. That’s never an easy row to hoe. I’ve always had a ton of sympathy for Arya and look forward to seeing what she’ll become in the books (I also am with you that Cat of the Canals has a much more intriguing storyline than what we saw show!Arya do in Braavos). I do worry about what the show has made her into, but the news that MW was shooting in Seville makes me cautiously optimistic that they’re not going to sacrifice Arya to give the audience a wrenching gut punch.
I was disappointed with some of the show’s casting choices, but Maisie Williams has been a brilliant Arya.
Ten Bears,
You forgot to trademark me.
#annoyed.
Gwidhiel,
Absolutely.
I used to “unreservedly love and adore” Arya, the later seasons of the show turned me off the character somewhat (but time enough to repair that), but rereading the books have also given me a different perspective on her. I think her Book!story so far is mostly tragic and sad, and somewhat dubious, that’s why I find the show glorification of super ninja assassin warrior princess so meh.
As to the sisters, they have history of blaming the other for their own mistakes. It’s a portrayal of their childhood relationship, which both need to grow out of. The show apparently did this with their lovely and fun final scene on WF battlements. Shame the S7 Winterfell storyline was otherwise a mess, leaving the door open to all kinds of headcanon versions.
So true! After posting above about how life in Winterfell wasn’t a bed of roses for Arya, I was thinking about how one of the problems she faced there (in the books) was Jeyne Poole’s bullying. In the books Sansa herself didn’t participate in mocking Arya, but neither did she stand up to Jeyne – and she very easily could have; her status as a Stark and as Septa Mordane’s favorite would have made it very easy for her to put Jeyne in her place.
Keeping silent in the face of wrongdoing was a recurring theme for Sansa in the first books and early seasons of the show, even as the stakes kept increasing: from not telling on Joffrey for attacking Mycah, all the way to covering for Littlefinger after he pushed her Aunt Lysa out the moondoor. Sansa was always very cautious about acting against someone else. I don’t think the show did a particularly good job at highlighting that theme for Sansa, but her reunion with Arya in S7 finally forced her to move decisively against someone she knew was a problem. It’s been a little less clear to me if the show believes that the S7 reconciliation put a lid on Arya’s “enduring issue” (which I suppose is a desire for revenge, although they really went to town in S7 by making her a jealous, petty-minded showoff).
talvikorppi,
RIGHT!? All the dark and grey sides of Arya made me even more invested in her character. I’m still very biased towards book!Arya (she somehow never annoyed me that bad, but then again I never really fan-girled in that sense, I just enjoyed her POV and character).
In my first English read-through I immediately thought the same thing about Arya chapter I, the scene with Sansa. But in Arya’s defense, I did get what book!Arya meant.
Sansa did go out of her way to lie about what they were talking about in her second sentence, unnecessarily adding something false and Arya’s name. 😉
talvikorppi,
Wow. Thank you! 😳🌞
Hm, I’ve always read that as Sansa trying to cover for Arya’s outburst with a placating white lie intended to satisfy Septa Mordane and draw her attention away from Arya and towards Myrcella (who was in no danger of being reprimanded by the septa).
I actually had a similar “vision” of old Mel coming back to Winterfell feeling save… 😂
And Joe Dempsie probably would agree with this. 😁 Besides being quip-py, he shared that Shireen’s death was the saddest one for him in the show. https://youtu.be/yv16dG__IkU?t=27m24s
Gwidhiel,
I don’t think so. Their relationship in mind, no way was she trying to cover for her. On the contrary, I think she deliberately teased Arya about Jon. Why would she have added Arya’s name if she really wanted to draw the Septa’s attention only towards Myrcella?
Cliohna,
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one. Septa Mordane’s attention had already been drawn by Arya’s outburst – Sansa was giving a plausible reason as to what (“acceptable”) thing they’d been discussing.
Which Sansa initiated. But yeah, let’s agree to disagree, as I wrote in my comment to talvikorppi, it immediately caught my attention that she was too loud herself and it confused me at first, that she was mad at Sansa, but then I got it.
I’m actually more grumpy towards Septa Mordane’s non-existing educational skills (in terms of empathy).
Definitely. The septa had it out for Arya, it really did seem like Arya could do no right in her eyes. And while I don’t share your view of who started the disagreement that resulted in Arya’s raised voice, I do think that Sansa could have – and should have – done something about Jeyne Poole’s obnoxiousness towards Arya. It might have been too much to reasonably expect Sansa to stand up to the septa on Arya’s behalf, but that failure fits with her larger pattern of not speaking up against wrongdoing.
My read of Book!Sansa is that she was a goody two-shoes/teacher’s pet, who disliked discord and didn’t want to see others get into trouble. So she’d do low-key things like try to deflect the Septa’s attention away from Arya, but she wouldn’t tell Jeyne to shut up, let alone the Septa. Sansa was observant & empathetic enough to recognize that Jon hated being referred to as “bastard,” but she somehow didn’t feel compelled to let her mother or someone else with authority know that Arya was being harassed by the woman who was supposed to be teaching her. My take on that was that she’d internalized the Septa’s (and to a lesser extent, Cat’s) condemnation of Arya’s wayward behavior, believing that Arya often deserved to be scolded. Sansa accepted conventional wisdom wholesale, believing that the people in power knew what was best for all concerned.
Ha! I thought continuing to trademark you would start to annoy you!
Here you go then…
Arya Super Ninja Assassin Warrior Princess Fantasies™
™ Talvikorppi 2018
Gwidhiel,
I agree with you on Sansa. In book one, while knowing all this stuff, I really can’t help myself but feel annoyed by her character most of the time (in Book 1!). I know she is a nice and polite character capable of empathy towards others if need be from the start (though not in regards to Arya). There are really only a few glimpses in Book 1 which made me start liking her character, the first being her scene with the Hound at the end of her second chapter, I believe. It’s a bumpy ride, but from that point on it only went uphill with me and Sansa, thankfully – in a way – separated from Arya. I just enjoy them both better in the books when they are apart. 😋
And I have my own theory about Septa Mordane. I really don’t think that she is a bad character. And Ned has a point when he tells Arya that Mordane only does the job that she was given. But it’s…she just doesn’t do her job very well. I believe it was such smooth sailing with Sansa and it ramped up her expectations, that she wasn’t prepared for a “normal equipped” girl (for lack of a better term). As Arya observes, Myrcella isn’t any better than her, which makes me think, that Arya maybe was not really that bad. And instead of making an effort in doing her job, she started blaming the child. Also makes her character a little more interesting in my mind. 🙂
Gwidhiel,
I haven’t read the books so I don’t know how Septa Mordane and Arya were portrayed.
All I know is from the show, the changing voice inflection by young Maisie Williams in this scene, including half-mimicing Septa Mordane, made me love Arya:
(S1e2, Jon comes into Arya’s room as she is re-packing her trunk – with Nymeria’s help)
Arya: “Septa Mordane says l have to do it again.
‘My things weren’t properly folded’, she says.
Who cares how they’re folded! They’re going to get all messed up anyway.”
(Can’t argue with that logic.)
That entire scene (e.g., Jon giving Needle to Arya) was unforgettable. It leaves me perplexed why that’s been the only Arya & Jon scene in 67 episodes.
[I’m tempted to say there was a second scene, if you count Maisie’s phenomenal wordless performance of the books’ “Needle was Jon Snow’s smile” internal monologue.]
Gwidhiel,
After all the many (many!) discussions on the many dimensions and layers of Arya’s character, how can you say that she’s one-dimensional? If I were a video game character, there would be a giant question mark pulsing over my head with my mouth wide open in shock!
I could write pages and pages on this, but for fear of it being stuck in moderation heaven (and that I’m at work) I won’t. While I do agree that her Braavos story in the books is more interesting, it would not have translated well onto the screen. Scene after scene of her learning languages, learning to lie and detect lies, learning about poisons, and warging into cats is not exciting television. The show could have done more interesting things with her Braavos arc in season 5, sure, but we learn some important details about her during this time. We start to see how difficult it is for her to let go of her identity, and we learn that she did not in fact hate Sandor and that things are not quite as simple as she once thought in terms of how she judges people.
And then there is her development in season 6 where she decides that she’s not the kind of person who will kill indiscriminately. Her scenes at the play and with Lady Crane are great! I would have loved at least one more scene of her with LC, but.. what we got was lovely.
Anyway, I could go on and on, but I need to go get lunch. 🙂 But I’ll close off by saying that just because she’s become an accomplished fighter does not make her character one-dimensional, or even close to it! She still has all the wonderful layers and complexities she’s always had.
talvikorppi,
“The show apparently did this with their lovely and fun final scene on WF battlements. Shame the S7 Winterfell storyline was otherwise a mess, leaving the door open to all kinds of headcanon versions.”
_________________
My sentiments exactly.
Are you suggesting that you’re wondering why they didn’t do a flashback scene of the relationship between Jon & Arya prior to the beginning of the series? It might have been neat to see a visual of some of their nostalgic thoughts in later books, but I imagine it would have been difficult to do considering how much Maisie changed in the first couple of seasons from the very first episode.
I agree that it might not have been too interesting if they went too indepth with her training. While there’s been more in the books (so far), even that has been minimal. Of course in writing it’s easier to describe a lot pretty quickly. Where I think it’s bad that her training was “glossed over” on the show is that things she can do now seem less believable, especially to non-readers. Readers and people that know there’s more to her book training can at least tell ourselves that she’s supposed to be able to (that) and accept it. As an example I’ve always hoped that she’d speak to Daenerys in Valyrian when they meet. If she does that on the show now I expect a lot of people are going to say, “What!? So now she can just speak another language?”
I completely agree with you – about how Book!Sansa initially wasn’t very likeable (although not as awful as she appeared in the early seasons of the show), and also about how Septa Mordane’s negative view of Arya was almost certainly influenced by how easy Sansa was to teach.
In both cases, the sisters’ predispositions vis a vis authority can be attributed at least in part to their experiences growing up: Sansa was petted and rewarded by those in authority – so why would she question the legitimacy of that authority and the prevailing status quo? Meanwhile Arya was punished and struggled to succeed according to those same rules, so she disparaged the rules and the authorities that attempted to enforce them. And Septa Mordane, as you so rightly point out, made Arya’s struggles worse by constantly disparaging her and making little attempt to actually teach her how to succeed.
This is also my reading. Though Sansa was being insufferably prim and proper and smug as well. But she didn’t attract the septa’s attention, Arya did with her loud outburst. So Arya blaming Sansa for attracting the septa’s attention is plain wrong, and GRRM with his writing makes it plain.
I think it’s much easier to intuit that Arya has lots of layers and complexities when you’ve read the books. FWIW, I disagree with you that the show has done a good job of presenting Arya’s nuances. I was disappointed with the show’s treatment of her time in Braavos, although I take your point that it would have been slow-going to watch her learning languages, etc. I was disappointed but I could live with it, until her final throw-down with The Waif, when my disbelief overrode my willingness to give the showwriters some slack.
And I was absolutely dismayed by how they depicted Arya in S7. I didn’t think they showed us a well-rounded character at all – they showed us a revenge machine who wasn’t willing to kill in service of others but was all too eager to kill on her own behalf.
Gwidhiel,
“…although they really went to town in S7 by making her a jealous, petty-minded showoff).”
You’re talking about Arya, but they went to town on Sansa too, which most people overlook. She’s attracted to power, hooked on Littlefinger, being manipulated, and suspicious of or disappointed in all three of her siblings. And she welcomes her long lost sister home wanting to be called “Lady Stark.” It’s all rather petty, especially for someone who thinks of herself as a leader. Sansa also had an outburst:
“You should be on your knees thanking me. We’re standing in Winterfell because of me. You didn’t win it back. Jon didn’t win it back. He lost the Battle of the Bastards. The knights of the Vale won the battle and they rode north for me. While you were off, where, traveling the world.”
Me, me, me. Note no mention of Littlefinger, Rickon, or her lie to Jon. And also note that Arya never brags about her accomplishments or sacrifices for the family; when Sansa asked if Arya tried to save Ned, Arya just said, “I wanted to”, when actually she was indeed pushing through the crowd with her sword to save Ned.
With books AND show we see the execution (and Red Wedding aftermath) through Arya’s eyes, which subtly implies her view was correct. It makes sense that 9YO Arya would have been shocked to her core seeing her beautifully coifed and adorned sister up there with the enemy while their father’s life hung in the balance. Who could forget that? Scroll or no scroll, she deserved to know why.
Good observation.
The Braavos-bummer for me was Arya getting stomach-stabbed a bunch of times by The Waif yet all she needs is some potion and a nap. I couldn’t even believe her going 3 blocks with those wounds, but, hey, I put it aside as a rare incongruity.
A different disappointment for me was the clumsy lead-up to Littlefinger’s demise. There was zero foreshadowing of Sansa’s turnabout and zero display by Arya of anything but murderous intent toward her sister. Such a cathartic denouement deserved more nuanced handling — I keep thinking crucial scenes must have ended up on the cutting room floor.
And, in general, both Ayra and Bran were provided flat characterizations this last season, which I’m overlooking given the rest of the great season.
I disagree on this slightly, because it’s not plain. A lot of his writing is ambiguous and so is this scene. Arya is right in that Sansa adding her name was unnecessary and therefore drawing the attention (which she herself stirred with being loud) to her. She could have said something about Myrcella and not adding Arya’s name, she could have added any other name, but she didn’t even give Myrcella’s name, only Arya’s.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
I don’t disagree that the S7 depiction of Sansa was opaque and less-than-great, but don’t see how that mitigates the hash they made of Arya’s character.
Clob,
As long as the show went “off-book” with the Sansa-Ramsay WF sh*tshow, and then had a lengthy multi-episode Jon & Sansa drama, I figured why not accelerate Jon and Arya? *
I would’ve preferred watching three episodes of Jon and Arya teaching archery and swordfighting to the Northern girls and boys, rather than the stupid LF letter retrieval “plot.” And as long as the show went ahead with the silly wight hunt (what Tormund correctly called a “stupid f*cking idea”), they could’ve had Arya tag along. At least we could’ve seen some Arya Super Ninja Assassin Warrior Princess™ vs. Ice Zombies fights.
™ Talvikorppi 2018
* At this point, no matter how well-written or well-plotted the episodes are, some people are going to bitch and moan about “D&D fan service” or “Dumb & Dumber butchered [fill in book character’s name here]” anyway.
BrienneBabe,
“Braavos-bummer for me was Arya getting stomach-stabbed a bunch of times by The Waif yet all she needs is some potion and a nap. I couldn’t even believe her going 3 blocks with those wounds, but, hey, I put it aside as a rare incongruity.”
____________
Those were all dubious directorial decisions by a director I won’t name. He also decided to have Arya stroll around Braavos, unarmed, in broad daylight like a sightseeing tourist – even though the previous episode showed her hyper vigilant in her hideaway because she knew the FM would be after her. His explanations in interviews were … dumbfounding.
OK, I know we’ve agreed to disagree but hope you won’t mind if I take one last stab at explaining my view about this scene. 🙂
In Arya I, the girls are all sitting at their sewing, Arya looking at her work with a critical eye. She’s not part of the other girls’ conversation and is generally pretty miserable.
For once, the septa is leaving her alone. Arya then wants to know what Sansa and Jeyne are whispering to each other about.
So Arya thinks that Joffrey is handsome, and she resents that she got stuck sitting next to chubby Tommen instead. After Arya’s query Sansa gamely tries to include her in the conversation.
Joffrey’s sister is in the room (although I don’t think Myrcella was privy to the whispered conversation Sansa had been having with Jeyne Poole and Beth Cassel), nevertheless Arya decides to trot out Jon’s earlier insult about Joffrey – even though she actually thinks Joffrey is handsome.
To recap: Arya inserted herself into a silly but innocuous conversation, and injected negativity into it by insulting Sansa’s crush, Joffrey. Not because Arya had recognized that Joffrey was awful (she hadn’t, not yet!) but because she resented that Sansa had been seated next to Joffrey at the feast, while Arya was relegated to sitting next to sweet-but-not-tall-and-handsome Tommen. It was Arya’s loud voice that drew the septa’s attention. In fact, we might view the septa’s initial response as a bit of restraint – probably because they had guests; she didn’t immediately berate Arya for her unladylike tone. She gave the girls a chance to explain what they’d been talking about, and since Arya’s loud contribution to the conversation was what had attracted notice in the first place, Sansa said that she and Arya had been saying how nice it was to have Myrcella with them – something specifically designed to return the septa’s attention to the guest of honor, and away from Arya. It didn’t work, but that’s what Sansa was going for.
I don’t see how Sansa can be blamed for Arya raising her voice and calling attention to herself.
Dumbfounding indeed. I was flabbergasted after that episode.
Cliohna,
My original reply to your reply of Ten Bears’ posts seems to be stuck in moderation limbo, but I at least wanted to thank you for clearing up the quote from Joe Dempsie. It looks like the quote from WiC is worded in a very misleading way. Instead of saying that he hopes they “end up together,” it should have been that he hopes they “reunite” or “see each other again.”
I am truly gobsmacked, Cliohna. That’s a brilliant catch. Even years later, those two are thinking in parallel. Maisie did say in a 2016 Rolling Stone interview that there were many takes of the “I can be your family” line: https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/game-of-thrones-q-a-maisie-williams-on-arya-starks-trial-by-fire-20130501. And you’re probably spot-on about the implications of what D&D are toying with here. BTW, I’ve enjoyed your 4-part response to Ten Bears’ brilliant 4-part rant, though it’s not as funny. Oh well… Ten Bears is one of a kind 🙂
Gwidhiel,
I call him “Mr. Blurry Background” because of his distracting technique of having a character out of focus in the background of a scene.
That was one of the reasons I thought the Arya & Nymeria scene in S7e2 was (for me) disappointing. After sending Maisie to Calgary to film with real wolves, why film Nymeria as a blurry figure?
He also did this in S6e7 or e8 when the blurry Waif was running atop a wall chasing Arya; and when blurry Sandor emerged from the woods with his axe.
His inexplicable decisions and explanations for them as to the Arya stabbing scene and others are another story…
At least that’s your favorable interpretation. Fair enough, but I still don’t think that’s what she was going for. She wouldn’t have mentioned only Arya’s name if she really would have wanted to draw attention away from Arya. And having Arya’s jab against Joffrey in mind and this whole back and forth. The rest I can agree on.
And I didn’t say I blame Sansa for Arya raising her voice and drawing attention. I specifically said, that I recognized Arya calling the Septa’s attention to the scene myself immediately the first time I read the chapter in English. 😉 I just mentioned that I get what Arya was mad about with Sansa, even though it was an overreaction and also complete deflection of her own part in drawing the Septa’s attention to them in the first place.
I’m with you. Mind-boggling choices that suggest he really didn’t understand Arya’s arc. The Waif episode was shot to feel like a Jason Bourne film.
“Arya and I were remarking on how pleased we were to have the princess with us today,” – Sansa implicated herself, too, even though only Arya’s voice had been heard. I think you’re saying that if Sansa had really only been trying to deflect attention away from Arya she would have said something like, “We all were remarking …”? And I guess that interpretation makes as much sense as what I’ve suggested – just not at all where my mind goes when I read it.
Agree to disagree it is!
I second your excellent catch, Cliohna:
“The writers are very well aware of Arya‘s and Gendry‘s impending reunion. They wrote Gendry‘s part in Eastwatch with Arya‘s words from Season 3 in mind. That means they didn‘t let him talk about her on purpose. My guess is that they wanted to ramp up the anticipation for the reveal to the other characters that they know each other. The same goes for the other characters in this party which are acquainted with Arya.”
The in-universe explanation for the Magnificent Seven not talking amongst themselves about Arya is even simpler: Arya has had *nothing* to do with anything Beyond the Wall.
Plus, almost every one of them has good reason not to talk of her. The Hound has no burning need to recall the truly, monumentally epic butt-kicking he got from a woman – and how Arya ignored his repeated plea for mercy. Jon is too focused on Saving The World to tolerate hearing distracting stories about his long-lost true-born half-sister. Gendry associates Arya with an arduous journey ending in failure and torture — which is *not* the thought one wants to have atop one’s mind when venturing beyond the Wall in search of the undead. Beric does not want to dwell on the Brotherhood’s real methods.
“Means there could be a Holy-Shit-You-Know-Her-Fest/reveal scene in Season 8.”
Yeah for that! Take Bye-Bye House Frey and turn it up to Wun-Wun, by having No One lurk unseen in their midst until Arya’s shocking appearance– involving the spectacular application of Needle, Valerian Steel, or both — in front of all of these Manly Fighting Dudes.
I second your excellent catch, Cliohna:
“My guess is that they wanted to ramp up the anticipation for the reveal to the other characters that they know each other. The same goes for the other characters in this party which are acquainted with Arya.”
The in-universe explanation for the Magnificent Seven not talking amongst themselves about Arya is even simpler: Arya has had *nothing* to do with anything Beyond the Wall.
Plus, almost every one of them has good reason not to talk of her. The Hound has no burning need to recall the truly, monumentally epic butt-kicking he got from a woman – and how Arya ignored his repeated plea for mercy. Jon is too focused on Saving The World to tolerate hearing distracting stories about his long-lost true-born half-sister. Gendry associates Arya with an arduous journey ending in failure and torture — which is *not* the thought one wants to have atop one’s mind when venturing beyond the Wall in search of the undead. Beric does not want to dwell on the Brotherhood’s real methods.
“Means there could be a Holy-Shit-You-Know-Her-Fest/reveal scene in Season 8.”
Yeah for that! Take Bye-Bye House Frey and turn it up to Wun-Wun, by having No One lurk unseen in their midst until Arya’s shocking appearance– involving the spectacular application of Needle, Valerian Steel, or both — in front of all of these Manly Fighting Dudes.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
Why are you ignoring the fact that Sansa punctuates the notion of Arya having to call her Lady Stark with a laugh? What does laughter tend to indicate?
Why are you ignoring the fact that Sansa repeats, practically verbatim, the words that Jon used to describe her contribution to the recapture of Winterfell, in direct response to Arya attacking her and accusing her of being disloyal to her deceased family and House (“I didn’t betray him (Ned). I didn’t betray Robb. I didn’t betray our entire family for my beloved Joffrey”)?
Enharmony1625,
You’re very welcome.
That’s what I thought. I think we are all interested in knowing what was actually said, hence my comment with link and all, I just happened to have watched the whole thing earlier, and sometimes in articles things can be changed for the worse, oh well. 😲
But those examples aren’t necessarily what make Arya’s arc at HoBaW so engaging in the books. To me, Braavos as a place really comes alive in those chapters – more vividly than any location in Planetos, really. There’s good stuff in her training within HoBaW that would have worked onscreen, such as her learning to feel and smell her way around the building’s subterranean levels during her blindness test, which would have nicely paralleled her explorations of the tunnels under the Red Keep. Training all her senses is absolutely key to honing her skills as an assassin, and getting repeatedly whacked by the Waif didn’t convey that for me at all.
But the real juice is in her time living with a Braavosi fishmonger’s family, and in her spying around the docks, getting to know the mummers and the cheap whores and the high-priced courtesans and the bravos and the pickpockets and the buskers, making new friends, always asking for news of Westeros and local gossip, having to learn three new useful things every day.
When I am presented with one of those social media quizzes that ask, “Where in the Seven Kingdoms would you most want to live?” my answer is always Braavos, in a heartbeat. The TV version’s glimpses of Braavos life were enticing, but brief and not nearly as immersive as I would have wished, by far. I could watch a whole TV season of nothing but Arya’s time there.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
Glad to be of service. And yeah, I’m really not that quip-py. That credit is indeed due to Ten Bears.
That he is. (And I unashamedly love it. 😁 -> GeezerMel…bahahaha)
Firannion,
Eh, I would have thought the same thing when I was young, tho back then most of the actor couples in movies were quite far apart in age, so it shouldn’ have been a surprise
And I agree with you – I always liked being around older kids, and when I was dating, older boys and men. Whats funny is that the man I married is younger than I am!
Ten Bears,
Not in this world. He doesn’t know his background, just that he is some orphan who has some skill with armour. The idea that he could be family, on equal terms with a Lady, could not have been further from his mind. He was not rejecting her, he was talking reality
This. All of it. I appreciated much of what D&D did with the material from the book, but this disappointed me. Then again I remember that what you get from a book is different from a screen (not nec better) so I can’t really blame them. Just wish they got a little closer to how that scene in the book felt,, and skipped that ridiculous stabby stabby run run thing…
Has this been the slowest week ever
I don’t ignore adverse points, but do what everyone here does: cite dialogue and actions that illustrate my contention. A laugh can represent many things, including nervousness, triumph, joy, etc. Arya was there furtively after being mistreated and mocked by the guards. Naturally she opened the discussion with a question to determine her ‘place’ in the new Winterfell. And surely she played the game of faces to see through whatever Sansa said. IMO, Sansa knew that no Stark, not Ned, nor Robb, nor Jon would tell a sibling to use formal address. But Sansa said it, then laughed. Arya must have read it as a nervous laugh because she didn’t hug Sansa back until later in their discussion. FWIW, when I first watched the scene, that “Yes” shocked me. I had expected that Sansa was so relieved Arya was safe she’d say, “Of course not.” Alas, no.
As to Sansa’s words on the balcony, what words communicate is coloured by context and the speaker’s attitude. Arya was right–writing that letter was a betrayal, though it had been imposed on her. That put Sansa on the defensive, so she went on the offensive. It’s a perfectly understandable conversational maneuvre, but it came out as smug, self-focused, and snide, particularly the way she said “me” three times. Book Sansa had daydreams of people curtsying and kissing her ring and calling her “your grace”, especially Arya. So her saying that Arya should be on her knees to her is particularly telling.
A thought just occurred to me where this could have been foreshadowing for some really cool stuff in season 8. In the battle at Winterfell, what if Arya ends up leading people to safety through the darkness (either under or around the castle) using her blindness training? Heck, maybe she will do that (i.e. if she can fight blind, I guess we can assume she can navigate her way around as well). However, it would have been very cool if they foreshadowed that by having her honing her sight by exploring the lower levels of the HoBaW as you pointed out. Having said that, I also didn’t mind that they had her honing her sight while fighting the Waif blind.
This I can definitely agree with! This would have been awesome to see, and could have livened up her season 5 storyline especially.
I also feel like they missed out on conveying certain details of the Faceless Men in the show. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think the show ever mentions how the price works (how it’s based on the intended target), or how they rarely train women or children. So it’s pretty remarkable that Jaqen recruits Arya in the first place.
Sansa’s Knight,
Same article on top of page for 7 days now. Yeah, it’s been slow.
I know Watchers haven’t been reporting much (I’d guess because they are all at Con of Thrones) but Kim Renfro has done a few articles for Insider and other news outlets have also confirmed a number of actors have finished filming. It’s pretty clear now filming is coming to an end, probably only a few weeks left then it will really feel like a slow news week until we get our first teaser trailier (July/August hopefully).
What if she becomes a White Walker??
No way will we get a teaser trailer that early. It will be early 2019. The first teaser (sigils teaser) for season 7 didn’t drop until March 9, 2017, and that didn’t even have any actual footage.
And to the people saying that it will be released earlier because they filmed earlier, it’s not about that. It’s about what is the right time for them to start marketing the season for maximum impact, which is a few months before the premier date.
If you look at S6 and S7 the teaser has dropped around one month after filming finishes. It’s not so much the month the teaser drops but the timing post filming that is key.
It’s all speculation but I am expecting a trailer in July/August and a full trailer towards the end of the year October/November with the final trailer a month or so before the season airs (most likely March according to respected journalists).
By the way the teaser is very unlikely to contain any actual footage, at best we will get a few soundbites like S6 or some footage of the actors in costume like S7.
Jon Snowed,
honestly, I don’t want to see any actual footage before the season starts LOL
I do want a release date though.
Glad to see you again Dee, you inspired me to avoid all spoilers for S8 which I am doing pretty well against:-D I draw the line with the trailers though I really want to see some snippets.
As for the release date, it’s possible we get it with the teaser but I suspect it will be more Game of Thrones returns Spring/Early 2019 at this stage and we will get the air date in the latter part of this year with the first full trailer.
Oh Dee, your discipline knows no bounds, lol. I admit, I’m a bit envious of your restraint, but I’ve learned to live with my inability to control myself around GoT news, so I’ve made peace with it 🙂
Since I would expect it to be a while before we get any actual footage of season 8, I would love to get a release date! As long as they don’t do that melting ice block thing again like they did last year. That was brutal!
If memory serves, a release window usually accompanies a poster, such as the one with a bloodied Jon for season 6, and the fire/ice poster for season 7. So I don’t know what we’ll see first, a sigils-like teaser or a poster.. maybe both at the same time.
I’m sticking with my prediction that we’ll start to see some teases around July/August after Westworld is over. And SDCC just happens to fall in July, so I’m really hoping for some tidbits to whet our appetite then.
7 days and counting 🙁
Hopefully some articles on the Con of Thrones or something will come out soon. I doubt we’ll get much more filming reports at this point other than maybe a whisper here or there. I wish I had the time to go to the Con this year. If I ever get to go to one, I don’t think I could pass up a chance to dress up as a character. Jon Snow for me hands down.
I quite like this idea, it’s left field and unlikely but it would be a surprise twist. The only problem is there is zero set-up for it. It would explain why Dany was not filming in Seville though.
Jon Snowed,
Haha YAY!! I am glad you are spoiler free for season 8. I must say you chose the best season to do so. And I agree, I don’t expect a specific date anytime soon. Nice to see you also
Mr Derp,
hahaha Mr.Derp, as long as you have made peace with that! I am sure that your knowledge of spoilers will not affect your enjoyment of the show, as it hasn’t the last 7 years 🙂
I just fully disconnect myself from this page and come in once every two months. I am going to try my hardest to avoid the trailer like I did last season!!!
Dee Stark,
So far we’re all pretty much in the dark even though most of us aren’t as disciplined as yourself. They’ve been pretty solid with their security and secrecy during filming this time. Even when specific cast members are spotted in filming locations they seem to create enough confusion to prevent us from really knowing what’s going on, intentional or not. Most of our conversations regarding any set and cast photos have involved a lot of guessing and theorizing.
I think this would be bad storytelling, simply because we have had zero foreshadowing that adult humans can be turned into WWs (except for the first one, and that was CotF magic, not WW magic). We have only seen Craster’s babies turned. Adult victims of the WW simply become mindless wights. If they’re going to change the rules of how magic works in this alternate world, it’s best not done abruptly and at the last minute.
Daenerys dies after childbirth. Her body is captured by the Golden Company and retuned to Kings Landing where it is hung on the walls to rot.
Mr Derp,
I wish you had been Jon Snow. There were several at the Con, including some ladies, but judging from your commenting personality, you would have won the day.
Jon Snowed,
Yes, many of the WotW mods and staff were there and quite busy. It is a mammoth undertaking, and IMO they deserve a few days to decompress. They did an excellent podcast in which each discussed one of the 10 best episodes overall. It was an excellent and very entertaining panel.
Dee Stark,
Nice to see you, Dee. Your reappearances are like Ghost’s–infrequent but enjoyable. You’ll be glad to know that this year very few confirmed spoilers are ‘out there’, and even filming news is confusing. Clob summed it up well. HBO have apparently gotten their security act together. Still, you’re right to stay away.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
Thanks for the kind words, Stark 🙂 Hell, I even have the long dark hair this year despite the fact that most of the time it’s pretty short and spikey/messy. It would’ve been perfect. I can’t guarantee that it’ll be this long again next year, but I’ll see what I can do. I really would love to meet some of you guys at one of these things someday, with my Khaleesi by my side 🙂 These conventions look like a GoTgasm to the extreme.
WhiteWalker!Dany or rotting corpse? Perish the thoughts
I’m taking a clue from Emilia’s not wanting Daenerys to go out on a particular note.
Daenerys views herself as a just leader, even when crucifying a city’s slaver-holders or having the defiant conquered incinerated by dragon fire.
So, perhaps her character can’t stand having her hard-fought claim to the Iron Throne cock-blocked by Jon? Maybe she turns on him in response.
This would cast her in a poor light (although after what she’s gone through, I can totally see her simply not accepting denial of that which she has so long considered her just due.)
It could even get ugly. Maybe digesting this, Emilia needed a three-hour numb-drive.
I have thoroughly enjoyed the discussion on this post (and been highly entertained by many comments), but I am pretty baffled by how every comments section seems to boil down to Arya these days (Ten Bears and Enharmony, here’s looking at you!). I’m beginning to forget all other characters exist and am beginning to suspect season 8 will just show Arya pottering about her daily business and occasionally breaking into song and dance (which I wouldn’t mind – Maisie has some serious moves!)
Regarding Emilia’s comments, I’m in two minds. The way I originally took her comment was to mean that she wasn’t happy with Dany’s last moments, but after reading people’s views on here, I now wonder if you guys are right and she’s actually just feeling messed up by the fact that she has finished the final shot, the one that will linger in people’s minds, of her character. I really am torn. that comment she made a while back about being in a daze post-reading of the scripts does have me veering more towards her being unhappy with her character’s direction at the end, but I wouldn’t put money on it.
I have honestly chuckled to myself about this many times! 🙂 Not too long ago I was thinking of posting about this very thing asking where all the Tyrion fans are. Or Jamie fans. Or.. just anyone else.
Speaking for myself, I enjoy discussing Arya and her story because I find it so interesting and compelling on so many levels. But I’ll admit that I can get overzealous in jumping in to defend her if there things said that I strongly disagree with. 🙂
I’m of the mind that Emilia was feeling a range of complicated emotions in filming Dany’s last scene, but not necessarily related to her being unhappy with Dany’s last moments. I base this mostly on the fact that I don’t think it’s good for the story or any of our beloved characters to leave a bad taste in our mouth with their ending. That is to say, Dany suddenly turning villainous, or Arya killing Jamie to use his face to kill Cersei, or Sansa turning on her family, etc. I just don’t think these are the kinds of twists or shocks they’re going for in season 8. I, for one, hope Dany’s final moments, whether she lives or dies, are positive.
Enharmony1625, I really, really agree and WISH that would be true, but here’s Emilia’s own quote from her Vanity Fair cover story:
“…Clarke has already shot her character’s final on-screen moments.
“It fucked me up,” she says. “Knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what Daenerys is . . .”
I am really dismayed, imagining scenarios of what could generate her displeasure at her role’s finale. Dany’s such a brilliant iconic force I hate to imagine they tarnished her.
TheNightQueen,
“What if she [Daenerys] becomes a White Walker?”
___________________
Ha! I can just see Tyrion trying to console a brooding Jon Snow on the cliffs of Dragonstone:
Jon: “The Night King stole my girlfriend.” 🙁
Stark Raven’ Rad,
“Book Sansa had daydreams of people curtsying and kissing her ring and calling her “your grace”, especially Arya.”
_______________
Oh really? I didn’t know that. Now it’ll be even better if S8 ends with the coronation of Arya, First of Her Name.
https://i.imgur.com/Wk6lyQ7.jpg
#LongMaySheReign
Che,
“but I am pretty baffled by how every comments section seems to boil down to Arya these days (Ten Bears and Enharmony, here’s looking at you!)…”
_______________
Guilty as charged. 😃
Seriously though, there are many good non-fanboy reasons. I tried to list and explain them a few weeks ago, but when I pressed “Post Comment” I think something with the formatting diverted my comment to “That Page Not Found” purgatory. I’ll try to find it, and give it another shot. (Because I know you’re just dying to read more Arya character analysis.)
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Arya is not as divisive as some other characters (Dany, Sansa and Stannis leap to mind). Most fans seem to like her, even if she isn’t their favorite. So discussions can go on much longer without devolving into hostilities.
As a hardcore Tyrion fan, I’ve kind of lost my motivation to talk much about him during the last few seasons, because I feel that his strengths have been ill-served by the writing since the TV version ran out of book material. His witticisms aren’t notably witty anymore, his strategic mind has been coming up with lousy ideas, and I’m not so crazy about him fawning over Dany. Another reason why I’m more eager for the sixth book than the eighth season. I believe that GRRM will do him justice once again (eventually).
“but I am pretty baffled by how every comments section seems to boil down to Arya these days (Ten Bears and Enharmony, here’s looking at you!)…”
I am too. Despite my Stark focus, I find discussions about Dany, the NK, Brienne, Sandor, Tyrion, dragons, direwolves, etc. very stimulating. But at least this very long, meandering multi-topic thread has not been acrimonious. After the camaraderie of the Con, I couldn’t cope.
I wish I’d been at the Con
with Sue the Fury and Firannion,
Who are two of my faves
in the WOTW enclaves,
But ne’ertheless do rock on!
Take that AABBA and good night Cleveland! 😉
Wouldn’t it be cool if on his way to Winterfell, Jaime was captured and presented to his brother by Shagga, son of Dolf, of the Stone Crows?
Awww! I wasn’t there, but thanks for the shout-out! I am truly touched.
Maybe next year. Hoping it’s held in a blue state next time. Within driving distance of NY would be even better.
I was thinking about the character Emilia has created in Dany. She is assertive, she is a survivor, she has agency. She is the Mother of Dragons. “I was born to rule! “etc.etc.etc. All through this entire series we have seen Danaerys grow into a conqueror. She has amassed an army, and ships, and invaded the lands she intends to rule. So for this series to end with the possibility of Dany falling in love with “the real heir to the Iron Throne” , getting pregnant and dying in childbirth, is almost a cliche’. That after everything she has accomplished, everything she has experienced, this is how her story ends? I could see Emilia feeling that would leave a a “bad taste” in our mouths. If I place her comment in that context it makes perfect sense.
“…I am pretty baffled by how every comments section seems to boil down to Arya these days…”
As one of the producers says in a commentary feature, Arya has the cleanest narrative in the entire sprawling story. While that alone makes her attractive, her presence near the end of the story brings in questions about how she, as both a Stark and as No One (a Faceless Man), will contribute to the defeat of the NK and the overthrow of Cercei’s royal dictatorship. (It’s not a coincidence that the biggest representatives of the Old Feudal Order, her father included, died earliest in the story; feudalism is dying on Westeros.)
Continuing our focus on Arya:
“…Arya killing Jamie to use his face to kill Cersei…”
Arya does not herself have to kill the person whose face she uses; that was made very clear in Braavos. There’s no reason Jaime can’t die in the arms of the woman he loves (Brianne) and then Arya uses his face to kill Cersei.
The kicker would be for those two events to be shown in reverse chronological order: first we see “Jaime” kill Cersei (“We belong together!”) and then see Jaime’s death scene. (As an aside, I expect Jaime will make the Big Damned Heroic Sacrifice, stealing that fire from Jon.)
I’d read that the show’s secret-keeping security folks were being underpaid, which seemed a terrible place to skimp, but they have been doing a pretty good job so far, especially since filming is wrapping up. I did read two apparently true major spoilers, but am not breathing a word about them to anybody who doesn’t share my lack of spoiler-resistance, lest I get crucified. But yeah…I’m like, give me your spoilers, your posters, your teasers and trailers and what-have-you…I’m thirsty here. xD
Perhaps Dany is forced to do something she doesn’t want to, or…something…really no idea how to interpret Emilia’s remarks, and I imagine that’s intentional on her part. ;p Again, it could mean anything; she sounds kind of overwhelmed simply by it finally, actually being The End…
And Arya & Tyrion are still among my top faves. :3
That would be amusing 😂. But really, if Daenerys dies at any point pre-AOTD defeat or during the battle, they can’t burn her. How would they dispose of her corpse while preventing her being turned into a wight?
That’s ASSUMING AOTD even get defeated 😈
Side note: I’m surprised at the lack of GOT emojis on my Mac 🙄. I would love a Night King emoji
Stark Raven’ Rad,
We’re up to 371 comments. For those who feel the threads have become a bit Arya-centric, I propose we talk about….
SANDOR !!!
Melisandre: “He is the Lord’s Chosen.”
Renly: “Is he a ham?”
Hot Pie: “Face like a half-burned ham.”
Pod: “The Hound.”
Hot Pie: “That’s the one.”
I just hope that when Arya and Jon meet it is not a formal meeting at Winterfell.
I want Jon to meet Super Ninja warrior Arya during a battle and not know her.
Sandor Ahai. The Hound that was Promised.
“You can still help a lot more than you’ve harmed, Clegane.”
That he will! I just hope his reunion with Arya is..
Dammit. I tried..
I’m stealing this from you. 🙂 There are so many occasions in my everyday life in which it would be appropriate.
I know, but I was presenting a scenario that would tarnish (even irreparably harm for some) Arya’s character, in which she would be so consumed with revenge that she kills another beloved character for her own personal desire for vengeance.
Pigeon,
————
____________
Colin Armfield: You’re not the only one. Clob described a similar hoped-for scenario in a 5/22/18 comment under another article. Great minds think alike, right? 🤓
(Clob’s comment, with my 5/22/18, 3:39 pm reply, are reproduced below.)
Pigeon: I was hoping you’d catch my reference to King Arthur’s invitation to the Black Knight in the first part of their scene in “Monty Python and the Holy Grail.”
_______________
(May 22, 2018)
Clob: “….I still like my own little scenario I concocted in my head where Arya doesn’t wait for them but instead goes undercover to meet/join them along the Kingsroad, waiting to reveal herself until they arrive at Winterfell.One reason to do that being that she can’t wait to see him but also to find out what Daenerys is really like and her relationship with Jon without anyone knowing it’s Arya traveling with them.)”
………………………….
Ten Bears:…. But Jon and Daenerys get ambushed on the King’s Road. They’re surrounded and outnumbered and then….
A crazy little ninja warrior comes out of nowhere, quiet as a shadow and quick as a snake, and with Arthur Dayne-like two-handed moves, carves up most of the attackers with a dagger while poking the rest full of holes with a skinny sword. Jon and Dany step over piles of dead bodies and severed limbs to address their savior:
Jon: “You fight with the strength of many men, Ser knight. I am Jon, King in the North…”
[Dany clears throat]
Jon: “…until recently, King in the North. I seek the finest and the bravest knights in the Seven Kingdoms to join me in my court at Winterfell. You have proved yourself worthy. Will you join me?”
Stark Raven’ Rad,
Clob,
Awww I miss you two!!
Thanks for the update.
FINALLY, it only took them 7 years to perfect their security
I know you guys like spoilers but I am happy to hear that.
Ten Bears,
a throbbing mass of goo in my head.”
“I’m stealing this from you. 🙂 There are so many occasions in my everyday life in which it would be appropriate.”
Would a ‘throbbing mass of goo’ costume qualify as GoT cosplay at next year’s Con?
Enharmony1625,
I was confused about the source of Arya’s faces, and if she can “harvest” new ones. On one hand, she obviously finished slicing off Old Walder’s face after making the initial incision in S6e10, and then used his face for the Arbor Gold Wine Tasting Party in the S7e1 cold open.
But in S7e6, when nosy Sansa went snooping in Arya’s room and found Arya’s face satchel (“FaceCase”™?), and got caught in the act by Arya, Sansa asked Arya where she got the faces. Arya replied that she got them in Braavos during her FM training. (Excerpt below.)
However, I didn’t see Arya steal any faces on her way in or out of the HoB&W in her final scene with Jaqen 2.0. She announced “A girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I’m going home” and just walked straight out.
Was she pilfering faces all along?
Also, was Walder’s face among those Sansa found?
Anyway, as I’ve said before, I really don’t want to see any more face peeling scenes. After using it three times (to dispatch MF Trant, Walder Frey, and the rest of the Freys) any surprise value is gone. I don’t want to watch every scene wondering: “Hey – is [character’s name] really Arya?”
_____________
(Sansa and Arya, from S7e6):
Sansa: “What are these?”
Arya: “My faces.”
Sansa: “Where did you get them?”
Arya: “In Braavos, while I was training to be a Faceless Man.”
Sansa: “What does that mean.”
This would be super amusing as well as sneaky, strategic, and cunning: perfect for our Arya. I totally am primed for that eventuality.
**********************************
Sorry, I don’t hear the ‘simply overwhelmed by it being The End’ in that particular utterance, although she’s voiced that elsewhere.
No, the quoted statement in question voices regret regarding the character’s dramatic coda and I think it’s Emilia’s massive slip/spoiler.
And I wish she’d not slipped that because now I’m poised to be bummed.
‧º·(˚ ˃̣̣̥⌓˂̣̣̥ )‧º·˚
Ten Bears,
Arya has been quiet about her background.
When Hotpie asked her she changed the subject.
She told Sansa faces from Bravos.
Whether or not she has trauma
She might not want to admit peeling peoples faces off
or the knowledge might be secret to the F/M.
Tensor the Mage, Who Appreciates Having a Thread About Dany Become All About Arya,
And I appreciate your input on the in-universe explanation.
😁
And yeah! for your insanely long nickname which is not at all conspicuous. 😁
BrienneBabe,
But how do we know that Emilia is being truthful about her reactions to the ending/to Dany’s fate/etc.? She could be misleading us, for all we know. Would the producers really allow her (or anyone else in the cast, for that matter) to be completely open and honest about her reactions and to share them with the media?
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. These quotes from Emilia as well as others are so vague that just about any meaning can be extracted from it. People see what they want to see based on their own biases and preconceived notions. It’s like a rorschach test. It’s fun to speculate, but it’s also kind of over-the-top to jump to conclusions based on these quotes.
BrienneBabe,
Dany gonna light up the Spider like a Roman Candle.
Tyrion: “No! Don’t do it!”
Davos: “If you burn eunuchs alive you’re evil!”
Sandor: “No fire! No fire!”
Arya: “Please! Please don’t kill him.”
Dany: “Dracarys!”
Ten Bears,
Don’t forget Sansa: “Stop it! You’re spoiling everything!”
Lunaselene,
Good one!
Of course, this is my personal speculation.
Lunaselene
Mr Derp
In my experience of fandom-haunting, the expressions to the media which are ‘permitted’ by The Powers That Be are confined to marketing boosterism: “crazy”, “insane”, “don’t know if TV is ready for it”, “beyond what you expect”, et al., to generate excitement.
The artful deflection is another allowed gambit: Re Jon being a contender for the throne, Emilia adroitly dodges with “Yeah, what’s up with that?”
And, expressing personal regret that the series is ending is totally approved of, for it allows the fan base to commiserate.
But expressing regret about a character’s dramatic coda is, imho, a personal statement driven by personal emotion.
See, I don’t consider regret to be vague. Yes, the cause of her regret is omitted, and that which would leave the ‘bad taste’ is omitted, but the regret is loud and clear and, I believe, authentic.
But we’ll see!
BrienneBabe,
I must’ve missed the quote. Where does Emilia express regret about Dany’s ending?
Emilia quoted in her Vanity Fair cover story:
“…Clarke has already shot her character’s final on-screen moments.
“It fucked me up,” she says. “Knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what Daenerys is . . .”
Gwidhiel,
I just wanted to go back to your other comment real quick to give you just another answer. 😄
I don‘t mind. On the contrary, I rather appreciate it sincerely. The more perspectives the better, and you gave plenty. While we disagree on certain things, these are the kinds of discussions which further helped me appreciating Sansa‘s and Arya‘s characters.
If I may, let me insert my own tweaks to what you said here and there and give perspective to where I am coming from in this after pondering a little longer on what you wrote.
I think she genuinely felt left out. And who wouldn‘t at her age? I thought it showed the anxiety she had with her peer group. While I read this I had the feeling that she was afraid that they were talking about her, which does add up with her „glancing furtively“ towards what the Septa was doing right before, observing the girls and then Arya‘s question what they were talking about, in fear it would be her and her needlework. This does also add up with Arya‘s behavior in Sansa I, when Sansa giggles because Lady was licking her cheek. Arya immediately got defensive there as well, thinking Sansa was laughing at her.
Although I don‘t really have a specified opinion on this, because I never actively thought about that aspect in the story, and I agree that she probably didn‘t have a real grasp of Joffrey‘s personality (and here we are left with the ambiguity again), she also could have already got a sense of it. In Eddard I the children were formally introduced to each other. In Jon I we get a glimpse of Joffrey as readers, and get to know that Jon already sees through his (thin) façade of courtesy. And in Catelyn II (right before Arya I) we see that even Ned already figured him out…somewhat:
And to come back to the original debate:
Correct and just to make it clear, I totally respect the sense you got from her character while reading this passage!
The reason why I am reading (or was reading? 😂) it differently is, as I said, their strained relationship and the jab against Sansa‘s crush which Arya blurted out in this chapter (and this possibly opens up a whole new discussion about Arya hanging on every word which comes pouring out of Jon‘s mouth at that point, and we know it‘s not always as valuable, bless his character…).
For example in Sansa I we read that Sansa wants Arya to be told off by Ned when she isn‘t behaving ladylike, and is miserable when she‘s not. That‘s why it made me think that it‘s less likely her intention was to draw attention away from Arya. However, it‘s also very possible that she wasn‘t specifically attempting to draw attention towards her. Also in Sansa I, right at the beginning, Sansa doesn‘t tell Septa Mordane where she thinks Arya was hours ago (eating breakfast in the kitchen). Therefore I totally second, that different interpretations make sense and are valid!
It was nice talking about it with you. 💐😁
I was hoping that you were referring to a different quote because the one you used doesn’t confirm or make it clear that she regrets anything. That’s what I was saying earlier in the thread. You could take just about anything away from that quote. Nevertheless, you certainly could be right. We’ll just have to wait until next year to find out for sure 🙂 I’m just not a fan of running with an assumption that’s based on something so vague. I need something a little less open to interpretation.
Like numbers? They tell much better stories.
The new ‘changes’ to the KL set shown in pictures today (in the usual places) are interesting.
Umm, to stick with the trend I guess I should add that I guess they’re showing that Arya must be kicking ass in the capital. 😛
Cliohna,
Hello! I’m really enjoying this discussion, so thank you for picking up the threads and continuing to engage. I really appreciate the widened perspective you’ve given me about these early chapters. 🙂
Very insightful and you could very well be right. My approach had been that, by the time the story opened, Arya had already completely divorced herself from the interests and concerns of young ladies, and viewed Septa Mordane as her jailer – someone to evade whenever possible and tolerate when necessary. She wanted to be out in the yard, training with the boys, not sitting demurely and sewing. But I think you’re onto something when you point out her loneliness and possible longing to fit in with the other girls. At a minimum, the things that I pointed out earlier – that Arya herself did privately admire Joffrey (or at least his looks), and wished that she’d been seated next to him at the feast – contradicts my view that she was wholly aligned with the worldview of the males in her family, and Jon in particular. (And while you’re right to point out that Jon and Ned quickly saw through Joffrey’s facade of courtesy, I think Arya I makes clear that it wasn’t only Sansa who was originally taken in by Joffrey – no fault to Arya, since she was only 9 years old).
I also think that Arya’s sense of alienation and not having a ready place in the family that you’ve so neatly drawn out here was referenced in her S6e7 reconciliation with Sansa on the Winterfell battlements. I don’t have the exact quote to hand but I think she mentioned that since Sansa was the Lady of the family, she [Arya] had to become something else. (sniff!)
It’s certainly ambiguous, isn’t it? But what is clear is that both sisters are at fault when it comes to the misunderstandings between them. If Sansa had been four or five years older than Arya, she might have been better able to differentiate between Arya’s needs to be included and protected from bullying by Jeyne and Septa Mordane, and her own need/wish to be the “good girl” and always follow the rules.
Thanks so much for this continuation! Apologies in advance if I’m absent from the discussion in coming days – I travel a lot for work and am about to hit the road again, sigh.
Gwidhiel,
Here’s your exact quote from S7e7…. Well, why not, here’s the whole scene, including my favorite quote, from Sansa: “Well, don’t get used to it. You’re still very strange and annoying.”
(S7e7 Arya & Sansa WF Battlements)
Arya. “Are you all right?”
Sansa: “It’s just strange. In his own horrible way, I believe he loved me.”
Arya: “You did the right thing.”
Sansa: “You did it.”
Arya: “I’m just the executioner. You passed the sentence. You’re the Lady of Winterfell.”
Sansa: “Does that bother you?”
Arya: “I was never going to be as good a lady as you. So I had to be something else. I never could have survived what you survived.”
Sansa: “You would have. You’re the strongest person I know.”
Arya. “I believe that’s the nicest thing you’ve ever said to me.”
Sansa: “Well, don’t get used to it. You’re still very strange and annoying.”
Arya: “‘In winter, we must protect ourselves. Look after one another.'”
Sansa: “Father. ‘When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.'”
Arya: “I miss him.”
Sansa. “Me too.”
I knew I could count on you, Ten Bears!
Well, you might initially think that due to her wording, but it would all depend on her tone and the actual way she said it…I took it ambiguously because I definitely think even she would lean more toward throwing you off than honestly foreshadowing a disappointing end for Dany…don’t think that kind of ‘slip’ would fly. 100% agree with Mr. Derp there. You do have to choose to read that as regret. Feeling “fvcked up”–not surprising after filming this character’s final onscreen moments after all this time and buildup. “Going to be a lasting flavor of what Daenerys is”–well, yes, obviously. Because it’s her final moment, her final stand or whatever. No clear indication of what sort of flavor that will be. Again, could mean anything.
Ten Bears,
Yeah, Arya can clearly harvest new faces herself given how she impersonated Walder in 7×01. As for where she got the other faces, I just assumed she took them from the HoB&W, or she took them off random dead people she came across during her travels back to Westeros. I’ve read accounts of people saying that the face that Sansa lifts up in front of the camera is Walder, but I have trouble seeing that. I think we can assume that she still has his face though.
And on the whole, I agree with you regarding the use of the faces, but I feel like it’s too big of a thing to not be used again. Especially in the final season. I hope it’s just once, though, for a big kill. However, I have no idea who’s face it would be.
I will say that I think that the show has done a good job of not overusing the faces so far. Now that the climax is upon us, they could come in handy for her, so.. As long as it’s kept very much to a minimum, I can accept it.
Every year i do a rewatch of all seasons..I’m planning on doing something different this year tho..i will only rewatch my favorite episodes of the show..by sequence of seasons..This will keep me warm until december when i think we will finally have a teaser of season 8..Also yes, can’t wait for my Dany and Arya scene..it will be iconic, i just know it! Imagine Arya’s reaction when she sees Drogon..:)
firstone,
I think the fact that Gendry didn’t said nothing about Arya to Jon in S7 was more like a writing hole tbh..For sure they had time to put a Arya mention in that cave scene between Jon and Gendry..and i think gendry would deff mention her…or it was only said in a off-screen moment that we never saw..
Jon Snowed,
Reviews of Solo have being good, It has more than 70% on Rotten Tomatoes and lots of critics enjoyed it, including hardcore SW fans. Emilia is doing great, she in on the biggest show on the world in a iconic character and now on the biggest movie franchise of the world. Lots of critics also loved her performance on Solo, and praised her. She proved herself again, as she can do drama, comedy, action, anything..and with a very charming personality. Like Kit said, he has done way more than anyone on GoT cast did so far in terms of jobs outside GoT and she is still so young..She also said in the Vanity Fair interview that she is planning on Directing too..
And Emilia is still filming..going now to June and probably July too. A few BTS photos are showing on twitter and probably more scenes with Emilia and Drogon..
She is so beautiful with Kit in that commercial. I wish they had one part together too, not just separated. 🙂 Also, there is TONS of new interviews with her in the Han Solo tour..pure joy!
firstone,
Well, season 5 was kind a very weak season for everybody, still..Emilia did great with what she got, but her more memorable and strongest scenes as Dany was for sure in season 3, season 4 and season 6, without a doubt. Season 7 also, with the 7×04 being one of the most powerful episodes for Dany in the entire show..For me, she deserved a Emmy for the episode 3×04 (And Now His Watch is Ended) easily..That was a masterpiece!
Me Before You was a instant worldwide sucess and also showed again how versitile Emilia can be. She does drama and she does comedy in the same intensity. Also, as she pointed out she loves to do comedy as she is naturally very funny in real life, and she really cant play with comedy in GoT, because Dany is a more serious character, and has a more dramatic side.
So, you cant imagine other person playing Dany and you cant imagine other person playing Lou Clark. Two very different characters and Emilia is amazing and shine in both.
Now she also is in the biggest movie franchise in the entire world (SW), and is also planning on directing too after GoT ends..which i think is truly amazing.
If anyone follows either yeahclarke or Irish Thrones on twitter there are pictures from the Belfast filming clearly showing
Apparently S8 filming set to finish in the next few weeks as most of us expected.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. It’s all about opinion but I left the cinema with a poor experience, what I would say it seems to be marmite that people either really like it or hate it, kind of like the Last Jedi I guess.
Jon Snowed,
I can’t comment on the goodness/badness of the Solo movie since I haven’t seen it and don’t intend to see it as the SW franchise isn’t really my thing.
However, I thought it’d be amusing to share this with the WotW crowd: the Solo movie has had quite good reviews (and audiences) in my country, most raving about the amazing work by the Chewbacca actor, one Joonas Suotamo who happens to be a Finn 😀 Hardly any mention of Emilia or the others. 😀
Gwidhiel,
I probably need a day or two myself to anwser, so don’t worry. I already have written a little, but I couldn’t finish the comment yet.
Wish I could provide a link to the lukewarm review of Solo that I wrote last week, but the newspaper group for which I write tends to post only my more enthusiastic reviews on its website. The only performances that really stood out for me were Donald Glover (Lando) and Phoebe Waller-Bridge (L3-37). Emilia did nothing for me, I’m afraid. In general I found the movie mildly entertaining but excessively safe, fanservicey and unwilling to push the envelope of the franchise.
Oh, I can! I often wish a stronger actress had been cast, as it’s such a central role.
Gwidhiel,
You are the one doing me a favor in continuing the conversation, so no need to thank me. 😄😁
And here we are complementary with our interpretation of the text again. You keep on giving. ^ ^
Well, my interpretation of this aspect was pretty much cemented when I read this passage:
This sounds to me like Arya was actually jealous of Sansa‘s many skills, among others. So I think she at least wanted to be good at the womanly arts somewhat, but Septa Mordane alienated her from this again and again (and Arya‘s personality contributed the rest in regards to learning courtesies etc.).
If she had been allowed to do it, she would have wanted to at that point, probably. And this is likely where Jon got the idea to gift her with a sword of her own. Keeping in mind that she never had training before, though.
While she does think of Joffrey as handsome at one point. She did it in a minor clause and in comparison to Tommen. So I personally don‘t give that much credence to that. I think it was more the emphasis on herself and being not enough, feeling inferior to Sansa, which is already kind of a big theme in this chapter.
Yes, that‘s a nice translation/adaptation of that into the TV show. 🙂
I would pretty much anticipate that a four or five year older Arya were also a little more mature. Similar to Jon in AGoT, sometimes kind of douchy, but always only a talk away from (self-)awareness and empathy.
While we‘re on it, there are two more things that caught my attention. Number one is part of Sansa‘s character arc in AGoT, which in my eyes is probably the reason it was so hard to get to like her character in the first book. She went from being humble in Arya I…
…to next level of escalation:
And the second goes fairly well with our original debate, with the blaming. That and things being (not) fair now also seems to me like a theme between Sansa and Arya (among others). From Sansa III (the quote before is too, actually, rather nice parallel chapters…):
And I agree to this:
Although their parents and chaperon are also at fault I would say (and Joffrey I guess 😁).
Cliohna,
Kids that age are very concerned with what is fair. I think when siblings are so close in age, with just a year or two between them, the distinctions between them get muddled and they sometimes forget why the elder often is often more skilled, or why the expectations placed upon the younger will often be a bit less than what’s expected of the elder. They see each other as peers (and rivals).
And it’s not just girls who are like this! I have two nephews who are separated by only 20 months and are currently 11 and 9 years old. They are both great kids, and they have very different talents – much like Sansa, the elder is effortlessly good at schoolwork, is a voracious reader, is almost always well-behaved, and is quite good at any sport he tries his hand at. I.e. he’s generally good at all of the things that the grown-ups in his world want him to be good at. The younger is a talented artist, prone to startling observations, and is usually delightful; but he has struggled with some school subjects – reading is not his thing at all, and he can get quite emotional when he’s frustrated. The younger believes himself to be not as smart as his brother – which isn’t true. But from his perspective it often looks like it. And his older brother isn’t unkind to him about his difficulties, but the older brother isn’t yet old enough to know how to be supportive. They bicker all the time about everything under the sun, but are also easily each other’s best friend.
I think GRRM did a great job depicting Sansa & Arya’s relationship. The show … well, we’ll see what they do in Season 8.
Whoa, hold up there. Perhaps in the 30-and-under category Emilia’s done the most outside of GoT (or at least, been promoted the most.) She almost feels like the Jennifer Lawrence of the show, although I’m not sure how many actually view her acting as being on that level…or at least her versatility…and also, she’s going from one huge thing to another rather than a huge thing to smaller dramatic films. Then again, J-Law did X-Men (like Sophie), and Emilia did Me Before You…I guess maybe they are kinda comparable. But anyway. Of course other cast members have done lots more, if only due to being older and acting longer than she’s been. Some are highly respected, accomplished, acclaimed, and decorated–and such Americans as myself had never heard of them before simply because the world is unjust. We’ll see what Emilia does in the future. Personally I think she’s wonderful as Daenerys, and good (though less strikingly so) in the couple other things I’ve seen (Me Before You, even Terminator.) GoT has certainly been a career boost for a multiple stars, and it provided the breakout starmaking roles for people like Kit, Emilia, Maisie, Sophie…although it may be tough for them to later shake the images of these characters and not be seen as Jon Snow, Arya, Sansa, etc. At least Emilia’s trying to establish a new SW character (with totally different hair) so that she might not be associated *just* with Dany. Not to disparage or take anything away from her at all. I just think other people deserve at least the same amount of attention and promotion.
Michi,
(Also I definitely see no chance of Melisandre dying at Arya’s hand; I’m sure she’s going to be extremely important to the endgame. I LOVE Arya–she’s a favorite [Tyrion too…still not a Sansa fan though, and I doubt that’ll change xD]…but, I don’t want to watch her kill everybody who made her list. Maybe we’ll see old-Mel again, though.)