We have a batch of new photos of filming courtesy of La Voz de Almería, with Emilia Clarke and Dothraki extras filming around Sierra Alhamilla.
La Voz reports that Game of Thrones has been filming in this area of Almería province since last Friday which is ahead of schedule. Peter Welter of Fresco Film, who handles GoT’s production services in Spain, kept reporters informed at a meeting with the city council.
La Voz de Almería says that the shoots have been lasting about twelve hours every day, from dawn until nighttime. The extras are based in a sports arena in Pechina and transported to the set in El Chorrillo from there, recording various scenes since Saturday. They also mention fan sightings of Iain Glen and Michiel Huisman in the area, though not on set.
More photos after the jump, plus the latest sighting in Belfast!
La Voz de Almería has a larger gallery of images so check them out at their site!
Game of Thrones filming in Saintfield, Northern Ireland is finishing up on the massive scene they’ve been working on for over a month. Kit Harington and a pack of Bolton extras were out on the town in Belfast yesterday.
Y si hemos visto, restregado y hablado con jon snow pic.twitter.com/cs6NOw01Zc
— Irishzuma (@tzuntza) October 13, 2015
Para los incrédulos pic.twitter.com/fvGuCY1ARn
— Queen in the North (@RedBloodyMary) October 12, 2015
Bolton Army? pic.twitter.com/1yJ6VqsyJ5
— Queen in the North (@RedBloodyMary) October 12, 2015
With a celebration this big, is it possible they’ve wrapped on the scene? Or are they just blowing off steam after work?
Oh my god, I think I get to do the…
Hodor!
—my first time!
I will say I’m a bit confused about the Dany-Dothraki storyline. At the book’s end, she is standing with her dragon, and there is no way a Dothraki group is going to say ‘Come with us. You must return with us to live out your life with the rest of the Kalheesi widows.’ So either Drogon takes off on her in both book and on TV, or there is a divergence between the two?? Thoughts?
CONFIRMED! Jon betrays everyone & joins the Boltons!
The “Bolton Army” song is hilarious. I wonder if that was Iwan getting up on a chair or something in that clip? I can’t tell.
Tootie,
Drogon is not with her at the end of season 5..and though the book makes it appear he was with her, it is vague enough that WoW could very well have her standing alone when the Dothraki arrive (Drogon could have taken flight while she was eating)
No no, Kit Harrington is just visiting the set, Jon Snow is dead. Kit just likes to visit… like 2 or 3 weeks a month. He’s just good friends with everyone. But he’s really not in season 6. No no, seriously! He’s really not in it, I swear! He’s really not. No no, why would he be, he like totally died, remember? It’s really not like it looks. I know it looks like he’s filming, but he’s not. Like that wouldn’t even make sense, since he died you know. Seriously! He’s not back, no no no. He’s really not… He’s not. No… – HBO official statement.
What are they singing?
Tootie,
It is an interesting difference. Yet, even before the show adapted it as it did, many readers theorized Dany would be sent to Vaes Dothrak to become one of the Dosh khaleen… which is interesting, considering that, as you said, last we saw Dany, Drogon was much closer than in the show. It’s easy to see how it will pan out in the show; in the books, not so much.
I just can’t get excited for the Dany arc. From the pics and rumors, it’s shaping up to be dull and boring. The desert view, khalesar, and nomadic people in general are just boring as junk. She’s made zero progress since season 3 to achieving her self-believed destiny and right. I’m very alone in this thought, but I’m very much wishing that Dany is the next shocking death.
…and THAT picture you say? well , that was..that was..an extra had called in sick so Kit was just the stand in for an extra…wearing Longclaw.. which we just happen to have with us on set 🙂
Tootie,
from what I remember in the books, Dany left her dragon and was wandering off somewhere when she heard the pounding of Dothraki horses and she just tried to lay still unnoticed…this is all during her diarrhea/wandering the wilds book stuff, which I assume happens after she finally accepts her dragon isn’t going to give her a ride back home and she starts walking, this is probably where the Dothraki pick her up next season. Soooo I don’t think her dragon abandoned her so much as she just decided it was time to start walking home?
Good thing Kit is past being icognito during season 6 filming because the guy right next to him is wearing a Game of Thrones shirt. Probably an extra using the line, “OH Kit? Ya that’s my pal, maybe later I can introduce you”
selena,
No, the book is not vague: It states explicitly that she is standing by Drogon when the Dothraki find her.
Wimsey,
my bad, you are right.. its been a while since I had read it and forgot it states she went to stand by him ..
edit..The “Bolton Army” song
you KNOW its been a long shoot when the extras have made up thier own song LOL!!
Tzuntza and RedBloodyMary tweets are hilarious ( conversation with Kit, Bolton Army song…)!!
Looks like the Belfast group had lots of fun.
Not interested that much in the Dany story for now. Wake me up when she is on a boat to Westeros.
am i the only one who seem not hyped at all for the dany arc this season?
Amazing pics from Almería!!! 🙂
Can somebody understand what they are singing?
Can’t wait to see Dany with the Dothraki!
She is definetly one of my favourite characters. Also thank god she finally left Meereen!
The Daily Mail seems to think it’s Jason Momoa in their photos but it very obviously is not. Oh jesus christ, not all Dothraki muscular men are the same.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3270759/Game-Thrones-actor-Jason-Momoa-pictured-Spanish-set-wife-Emilia-Clarke-suggesting-Khal-Drogo-return.html
(And I’m not posting their pics because they’re very snarky about that.)
Sue the Fury,
That’s not Mamoa. 100% sure of that.
Mihnea,
As am I.
Sue the Fury,
Definitely not Momoa. Probably the rumored hunk of a Khal in Navarre.
Party on, Kit.
That barely looks like Emilia.
Sue the Fury,
Plus Jason’s in California after spending time with family elsewhere in the States, according to his Instagram. The Daily Mail might want to pay an intern to google things before publishing. Ditto other “news” sites as well.
I’m having trouble as well getting the lyrics of the “Bolton song”, if anyone caught them, feel free to share ! 🙂
Arkash,
I can’t rewatch now, but pretty sure it was just “Bolton Army, marching two by two.”
thornofhighgarden,
The tune does sound like “Ants Go Marching” so that makes sense.
Any word on the Riverrun filming delay? I was really looking forward to hearing about that the most.
Hopefully they bring back the awesome Dothraki score. Will give her arc a nice season 1 feel.
lord of blogfell,
Nope, you are not the only one.
batfan,
Too damn funny , lol!,
Like The Office was boring because it was in an office, and those are so boring. I thought the early Dothraki stuff was very interesting. I’m sure there are all kinds of dynamics possible here. Let the writers write!
Mihnea,
Same!!
That’s assuming that she ultimately has a linear predictable arc: she has dreams of taking over the world, gets more and more powerful, and proceeds to do so. If her arc is something else, about gaining a healthy cynicism, of becoming disenchanted with conquering and conquerors, then she’s been making progress after all. I expect the endgame of the story (overall) will not be about A, B, or C winning out, but about it all tumbling down, a melted iron throne and loss of centralized government, etc.
Sue the Fury,
Wait, what? Arent all the Khals supposed to be played by Jason Momoa?
It’s true Drogon was still with her in the book.
Not clear what happens after that.
One could theorize that the show has actually extended her initial interaction with the Dothraki. From earlier photos she seems to be a captive, her hands are bound, which I don’t really think will happen in Winds of Winter if Drogon is around. Still they could become separated for a while.
From other earlier still Dany looks post-Vaes Dothrak on the way to, with Daario , I guess, Meereen, obviously at the head of a kalasar or is all the kalasars!
Filming as usual out of sequence.
One thing these still are at a time when Jorah and Darrio have not shown up.
I am guessing that with all the green screens around that induction to the Dosh Khaleen will be interrupted by either Drogon or three dragons! Which will shape Dany’s future with the Dothraki.
By the by she no long has her hands bound so something happened.
One thing, Dany speaks Dothraki and maybe someone will remember she is a Khaleesi.
Boy several things, Dany’s wedding dress is worse for wear! No surprise she trades it for Dothraki leathers.
Freaking lot of cranes.
A number of green screens.
I would not object to that (drools).
And that is perhaps the coolest thing to come. D is not going to swoop in and save Dany again (I hope not)…Dany the Targ will assert herself (next to D) with her stallion that mounts the world. She really should have “killed the girl” during her flight back to the Dothraki Sea. Diarrhea or not, she should be ready to take this as an opportunity.
JennTheStarkarian,
Nope, she’s standing right by Drogon in the books.
selena,
Nope, she’s standing right by Drogon.
Tootie,
Eh, he could always decide to just leave her there.
Or in the books Dany takes control of that one kalasar there and then goes to VS to unite the remaining kalasars.
But in the show she will unite all kalasars at Vaes Dothrak.
It’s adaptation 101 here, if what I wrote above is true.
Anyway, the result will be the same, Dany gets the kalasars.
Does it look like Dany’s pregnant or is it just the angle?
phantomstrife,
I belive its the angle.
Wrap party for Ramsay and Roose Bolton, perhaps? One can hope.
spacechampion,
SNOWBOLL GET HYPE!
(I look in the mirror, and feel ashamed of what I became.)
I think initially Daeny is taken as an “unknown” but it won’t take long for her to gain the upper hand. She does have strength and power and oh….a dragon. Drogon WILL show his head season 6, for sure, if for no other reason than to scare the poochies out of stubborn Dothraki. I am still unsure about the scene with Daario but not Jorah. We can speculate all we want, but we just don’t know, he could simply be on a lunch break when this part was filmed, or just out of camera view.
I do NOT think the other two dragons will be there. They have yet to have their *hopefully* very dramatic release in Meereen. At this point it starts to feel unlikely to me that she will start off for Westeros at the end of S6 after all. Just don’t know right now. Seems like she still has much to do. And skipping Meereen entirely leaving Tyrion and her Unsullied and two dragons there just doesn’t seem like an option, even though it has been booted around already.
Mostly still up in the air about what we are really seeing. And I kinda like it. 🙂
Mort Goldman,
I agree with you.. When I watch old episodes which I do spot I find my self fast forwarding most of her scenes with the dothraki.
GeekFurious….lame as always
Isn’t that Iwan Rheon leading the singing and clapping at the end of the clip?
I would rant and rave if that was the case. Once bonded (it was better portrayed in ADwD at Daznaks), D & D are not going to stray too far from one another. These are lifelong bonds, literally til death do them part. Any separation of D & D at this point (for the show) will be due to VFX budget limits and a show-only concocted power punch scene that will violently and impressively demonstrate to the Dothraki that this khaleesi has her stallion that mounts the world.
I suspect the song is a play on “Join the British Army,” which, well, also has this common variant:
LOL, I saw that on wic and I laughed the living shit out of me. Wic even found the perfect oportunity to trash the show and say that this is already some soap opera bullshit from GOT. I’m pretty sure that they know that it isn’t Mamoa, but that was the perfect oportunity for them to trash the show.
Dany’s still in her white 5×09 dress in these pictures, but her hands aren’t bound and the white dress is in significantly worse condition than it is in those pictures of her getting taken captive by the Dothraki.
I saw a fan tweet a photo taken with Peter Dinklage saying that he was heading to Almeria. I know there are various Almeria filming locations, but I was a bit surprised, as I thought that they were all related to Dany’s Dothraki storyline. I guess we’ll see.
selena,
hahaha. Jon Snow is dead because Jon Stark LIVES!!
And congrats to Emilia for winning the Most Beatiful Woman Alive (or something similar) award for a certain magazine I don’t know!
In other news, Boltons’ party with Kit must have been amazing <3
It looks like the majority of Daenerys’ arc in Season 6 is bringing the Dothraki under her control, and hopefully out of their pillaging, slave-creating ways onto a better future for all, them included. I well remember a lot of book-reading fans had predicted/hoped for that her Dothraki “interlude” would be skipped altogether. It turns out to be not the case at all, just the opposite. 😀 I am looking forward to this storyline a lot! I need some resolution in the messy situations all across Essos. Also, Westeros needs to descend on the verge of chaos from its already messy state before Daenerys lands on its shores.
Also, hopefully lots of Drogon action.
EDIT: At this point, I am dying to know at least a little bit of Rhaegal’s and Viserion’s story. Who’s looking after them?
PORT ‘O POTTIES SPOTTED IN VAES DOTHRAK!!! TOILETBOWL CONFIRMED!!!!
At the end of book five Dany was
They will also film in the Alcazaba of Almería, in a about a week. Previously, I’d thought the Alcazaba was going to be Sunspear, but considering many Meereen actors are in Almería, I guess it’s gonna be Meereen.
Is it safe to assume Kit has been released from his “no pics please” vow?
Whites Tavern looks like a neat place for some good crac.
Hodor’s Bastard,
That is why I highly suspect that the second option is the one that is right.
With them wanting Drogon to make a big impact on all the kalasars, rether then 1.
I agree with you on the bond, but disagree that it was better in the books, in my opinion the books showed Dany taking over better, but the show showed the bond between the 2 much better. Something wich was very well done in S5 in my opinion. The bond between these 2 is very much a mother/child one. Something I never got from the books.
P.S. I was really confused with your comment until I realized you mean Dany and Drogon! 😛
I can’t listen to the singing. My two little dogs are music critics. They both started barking!
Queen of the Keys,
Esquire calls her “Sexiest Woman Alive” so they can ask her to take her clothes off for a video. The usual.
+10
Hodor’s Bastard,
D&D? 😀 Now I have to pause a second every time to get the context. David and Dan? Daeny and Drogon? Haha…
I think way back from Season 2, the show has shown the bond between the two quite well. The Drogon appearance in the second episode of Season 5, when he was grown-up and independent, also reinforced this, in hindsight. The few seconds of bonding in Daznak’s pit also showed the show’s audience how strong the bond is, so the show watchers will be expecting certain things. I agree with you, it’s a very mother-child one. That’s why it shocked the heck out of me when I learnt that in the books she uses a whip to tame him! 😮 The show never ever implies a master-slave relationship – if that is what is depicted in the books, then I am extremely glad the show wanted to diverge from the books.
Yeah, on Emilia. It just seems an excuse to get her to pose nude in Marilyn style shots. She’s a lovely woman, but fuck, put her in some couture and let her lounge over wrought iron benches in a garden rather than JBF hair and draped in a sheet.
One way to change Dany’s “predictable” arc (in which she become the last heroine, JonxDany, battle of ice and fire, queen of the Iron Throne…) is she creates an army of dothrakis (like it was planned) but when she finally arrived to Westeros, she’s an horrible queen (Meereen was nothing) and the Westerosi have to get ride of her. Like Aerys II but with dragons.
Part of me want to happen that. Or get stuck with the other widows lol
I miss the whip part, though. Fire and blood, not Mother and pet, please!
batfan,
They know nothing….and flashback with Kit?Great Idea….But Jon is back…
SlayerNina,
Dany will not get to rule much. I don’t expect her too rule at all. But she will definetly be one of the major player in the war for the dawn.
And of course I disagree with your other statements. As I see nothing ”predictable” here.
Dany’s story can go in many ways, but her fighting the WW has been forshadowed very much.
Also I’m one of those who suspect there will be no IT left in the end.
Mother and child*. there is a difference. Glad the whip was cut. took away from the bond in my opinion.
Yes, THIS! lol
Kay,
Yes the bond is much better in the show in my opinion. Much of Dany’s story is better in the show, except S2 in my opinion, but even here I have a book-reader friend who liked that one better then the book version.
He tought the books gave a bit too much away in that story. (if you don’t know, there are just more visions then in the show), he also tought the visions in the show where better, not as ”spoilery” but very intriging.
SciFiFantasyGirl,
That times a thousand.
And yet all the pics we get seem to be of Essos filming. *sigh* Now if Clarke were filming withn Dinklage again, then I might be able to work up a feeling. But this? Just a great big yawn.
So, not wanting to just bitch, but why do I find this so boring? Well, it’s because Dany is so disconnected from the rest of the story. Her arc is isolated. When we had the scenes of her with Tyrion last year, I was overcome with excitement with the thought that finally, FINALLY, Dany’s arc was going to intersect with others. Yet…now it’s not.
And it’s not just Dany. I completely lost interest in Arya once she left Westeros. It’s again an isolated story. Get them to Westeros already.
I’m struggling to get excited about Daenerys’ latest Dothraki adventure too.
Just when they get her together with a couple of the show’s other big characters they send her back to square one messing around with the Dothraki.
I know that this is all tied into the arc and prophecies in the novels and is probably necessary to further the overall storyline, but it may end up feeling like we’ve done this all before.
It’s hard to tell how Tyrion’s story is going to be affected by this too. He and Varys make a good duo, but with monosyllabic Grey Worm and personality void Missandei as their only established supporting characters I’m unsure how engaging it’s going to be. Especially if the storyline in Meereen becomes too much like a retread of last season, simply with Tyrion trying to keep a lid on revolt rather than Daenerys.
Obviously I’m still looking forward to the next season and I can’t pass judgment on the story direction and decisions until I’ve watched it. But I’ve yet to see or hear anything that suggests the Essos storylines are going to be particularly enthralling. I’m yet to see evidence of the “…go, go, go, go. Shocking moment to shocking moment. Epic moment to epic moment. It’s mental; it’s epic” description of Season 6 which Emilia Clarke gave a few months back.
HotPinkLipstick,
Agree, her being so far away from other main-characters, takes it’s toll.
Still tough while I like Dany, and her story, until Meereen, I can easly see why people don’t. I have the same complaints about Arya, glad she gets back this season, tough.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
Well she might have ment the season in general, rather then her story alone.
We do know that some actors get all the scripts, not only their own.
Anyway, I’m very excited for this story. And also disagree on your Missandei/Grey worm impresions, I think their quite good characters, and can’t wait to see them with Tyrion.
Also I’m very excited to see this new red priestess.
SlayerNina,
Let’s be honest both Dany and Jon are on path as the main heroine and hero. She will fight Others (plenty of foreshadowing) and don’t what you mean by JonxDany?As getting together? If so romance/love is part of this so there might be one last big romance, but not with any happy ending with them on IT. Many people want her to be like her father Aerys II and there are some worrying signals from time to time. Truth is that she will never become fully mad as you or some other people wants. Although invading Westeros with 3 huge dragons, horde of Dothrakis not everyone will be thrilled by that.
As for her rulling. It could go either way and here is foreshadowing for her eventual death, but since I believe IT will be in the end and as George said there will be a winner (I hope I’m remembering this rightly). Who else than her?
This isn’t Disney though. As depicted in TP&tQ and The Rogue Prince, dragons don’t bond easily with their rider, but once they do, it is lifelong. They need an assertive action by a potential rider that is convincing enough for them to “bend the knee.” Many perished when attempting to bond with them, especially if they showed a lack of assertion (or are overly-cocky). They can sense confidence and fear. Whips don’t hurt the dragons…instead they enhance the assertion and confidence needed by the potential rider. They aren’t huggable creatures, especially during their rebellious adolescence.
Dany may have had soft moments with D, R,& V in the past, but that has changed. It needed to change. Dragons will be dragons. The Daznak scene in ADwD captured Dany’s assertion (and inherent Targ confidence) needed for the subsequent bond. Drogon did not come to save Dany in the book…in all the craziness, Dany was assertive in that moment and “killed the girl” and became a Targaryen dragon rider then and there.
The book is the book and the show is the show.
(D & D can be a fun indirection at times) 🙂
Amen.
Geralt of Rivia,
Very well said!
one thing more. In my opinion: if Dany ends up rulling, she will be a good ruler, another Aerys II would be quite boring, and not very good writing in my opinion.
But a theory I think is quite good, is that there will simply be no IT left in the end. Perhaps Dany dies fighting the WW? I don’t know. But I’m very positive she won’t go mad.
Also all this talk of people annoyed by the idea of Dany rulling, I have the impression thet forgot about the WW. After all what beside 3 dragons can win you that war?
So the reaction here is something like this:” well you can defeat the WW and save the world, but then you can go mad and die, because I don’t like you.”
Unfortunately it is wishful thinking. It is obvious she is one of the key players.
Hodor’s Bastard,
I fail to see how Drogo came just to save her? Just because no one mentioned him being atracted to the blood doesn’t mean that wasn’t the reason he came.
Also, I disagree with the rest. That whip scene, Dany taking control by force, is something I never liked. The way the show did it in my opinion was better, as it put accent on the Mother/child bond, wich I find much more interesting then the Dragon rider aspect.
Also I prefer this kind of bond with Dragons rather then the one portrayed in the books. I just find it more fascinating then, ”whip your dragon, if he behaves badly.” like a dog.
But lets not enter this debate, it’s all personall taste here, and it would be meaningless to disscuss that.
It’s like disscussing if a food was good or bad. Depends on who you ask the question.
batfan,
Lol…last night I was watching a Tony Teflon video on YT and he has a very good theory on how snows storyline is gonna play out. Anyway, this upcoming season is going to set the ratings meter on fire. Anyone know the ratings for TWD premiere? Take that number and multiply it by 4 and u got the ratings for GoT se6 premiere. I bring up that dumpster juice of a show bc it just came out and they’re the 2 top shows atm…GoT FTMFW! Vamos!
Ya know. I don’t get this “don’t use a whip on the dragon” (like it is a pet, I just wanna know who whips a pet?) 🙁 It MAY happen that Drogon or the other two just have to be taken in hand. Dragons have very tough scales (from what I know of dragons), I too seriously doubt a whip would so much hurt them as get their attention.
For Daeny being in the end game and Jon too, I agree they both will be, but I also think neither of them will be THE end game. Mr. Martin says there will be many contradictions and sort of be unfulfilling (my word, not his). I do think that Daeny and Jon with dragons, save the ultimate demise of all of Westeros, but that is the war before the ending. They have served their part and it is time for the “new vanguard” to take over. What that new vanguard is, is a mystery to me, but I do have a few thoughts on it.
I’m extremely excited about Dany’s arc next season. Taking all the rape/pillage stuff apart, I liked the dothraki in Season one. Dany was great while dealing with them in season one, learned their language, learned their culture, and at some point she was really happy being with them – ok, Drogo was alive, but still. But that’s a kind of bond she’s never had with the people in Meereen. Weird place, culture, even names. She was always supposed to unite with them and have a huge khalasar. GRRM just postponed that because he decided to write more books.
About Drogon and Dany, I think in Twow he’ll left her very soon. There’s a part in the last chapter of ADWD that I think it’s said when the dawn comes Drogon always leaves. When the Dothraki find her it’s around the time he usually leaves so I assume that’s what’s gonna happen. The show only foreshadowed that, in a different way. Probably a budget issue.
Sue the Fury,
If it was a male star being asked,you wouldn’t have had a problem with that,but as usual feminism doesn’t work both ways so good job with the hypocrisy .
Yes, have some fun and enjoy the hell out of the fame and your own wonderful youth, even if it does get tedious sometimes!
As for Dany becoming a rendition of her Mad King father, please please, no. I’ve said it before, I implore again, not another inept female ruler. Let her have a vision, a breakthrough, something to make her wiser. I couldn’t stand if another female on this show gets so close to competence, then f**ks it up, or allows herself to be f**ked up. That goes for Sansa and Arya, too.
This is fantasy, isn’t it? So let’s have a fantasy where a strong female does figure out how to live her life before she gets her own throat cut. Not so keen on Melisandre being that female, but we’ll see what everybody, D&D and GRRM, have in mind for the females in a story coming to fruition (meaning being written and produced) in the 21st century.
So the impression I get, over and over and over again, is that a lot of book readers are completely unexcited about anything Daenerys, unless she goes Mad-Targ-destroyer-of-good-life. On the other hand, they are immensely excited about the minutest character from the middle parts of Westeros, who sadly, I don’t even recall very well from the show, like the Tully relatives and such. I think this illustrates the great BOOKS vs. SHOW divide rather well. 😀
As usual, I am spoiled by Wikipedia. I thought Danerys’ story in Season 2 was just fine, certainly FAR BETTER than her horrendous story in Season 4. And I can guess why book readers found her visions in the books better – because they apparently were primarily not about her. 😉 😀
And truer words were never said, though they might be very, very hard to accept by some. In the books, were dragons ever hatched from fossilized stones by past Targs?
Mihnea,
Agree with most of what you said. I am not a big fan of Dany (not after reading book5, that is), but I find these anti-Dany campaign by otherwise intelligent fans (Apple Martini in westeros.org for one example) extremely irritating. It is exactly what you said “She will go mad and be eaten by a dragon because I don’t like her (of course there are historical precedents for riders being eaten by dragons, but the real reason they ‘predict’ this is because they want it to happen.)”
Dany emerging as the ultimate winner seems very unlikely to me, mainly because she is the best-equipped to survive the war against WW. It’s like Robb or Renly vs the Lannisters. The ones with best chance mess up somehow.
The fact that she might be barren is one thing that could make GRRM write her as the ultimate winner, because in the end, none of her campaigns matter because House Targaryen dies after her. (If Aegon is fake and Jon does not become king- Jon becoming King in the end will be the biggest fantasy-trope, although I’m all for it).
I am keeping an open mind about Dany’s future.
Yeah , so much for the whole ‘I refuse to do nude scenes anymore nonsense huh…’
Why is Tyrion not considered part of the end-game? To me, he very much is! The other two, Jon and Daenerys, have a lot of fantasy elements attached to them, and will probably disappear after their good vs. evil grand drama, but Tyrion is mostly grounded in reality, with people, and he is the strongest candidate, IMO, to endure.
Kay,
I think that Dany is much more popular in the show fandom because Emilia Clarke is such a charismatic person. There is something completely magnetic about her.
And another important thing is that Dany’s storyline, just like Arya’s, is IMO much better in the show. Not because they changed that much, but because they compressed things from her storyline.
Kay,
I am not a book reader and I still don’t care for her story. But there us always hope.
Mihnea,
I think that S2 for Dany was better than ACOK. Except HotU I don’t know what was stronger in the book version.
In ACOK you got just a world-building.
Mihnea,
ita. Also, the show and Martin are not that different here, in that Martin never reduces the Dany-Drogon bond to rider controls/enslaves/terrifies dragon into submission. Dany’s relationship with Drogon is heavily nurturing early on, and was never compromised, as she never got to lock him up. At the Pit, Drogon might be responding to Dany’s whip, but he could also be responding to his memory of Dany as his “mother,” or to her attempts to save him, which is why she jumps in to start with. After, he takes her, on his own agency, to his lair in the Dothraki Sea. Martin never gives up on Dany as Mother of Dragons; one of the things she has to come to terms with is that locking up two of her dragons meant that she had “turned against [her] children.” When she decides to find the Dothraki, she can’t use her whip, as that’s gone. She uses her legs and feet to guide her dragon.
Anyhow, the show does prettify the situation, in that Dany isn’t suffering from diarrhea or munching horse, but the motherly relationship isn’t that far off the book.
That’s very true. There’s a lot of people like that in those reddit forums. They only say her arc will be interesting if she goes all mad repeating the mad queen when in fact that would be the most boring thing to happen to her because it would just be history repeating itself.
Dany will not become mad and even if some people don’t like her, she’s gonna have a big part in the final war. As big as Jon’s.
LOL no. In fact this is the opposite; tyrion is not even a lead character. The leads characters are Jon and Dany. Jon being clearly number 1. Tyrion is, AT BEST, in the same category with Arya and Sansa.
JCDavis,
Waldas baby + eternal baby Sam?
I have a question. I just went on the play store and searched for WotW and there’s an app! Judging it’s thumbnail however I don’t think that’s sue in the pic. My question is is there plans for a dedicated WotW app in the pipeline? I know the other website got one
Kargaryen,
I was very hopeful when Tyrion finally made it to Meereen. Intelligent conversations. I wish she had more of those with Barristan previously. Her story did not engage me much. How disappointed I was when she flew off on Drogon and ended up where her journey pretty much started.
Queen of the Keys,
Those top whatever lists always seem to favor the flavor of the week, so imo they hold no weight
Jesus Daily Mail strikes again with their utter laziness and stupidity.
Newbietothegame,
To go forward you must go back…
Well, there’s the fact that he didn’t eat any unsullied and only attacked the sons of the harpy. Also he came just when she was in danger (in fact some people I’ve met think she summoned him, and for all we know it could be true)
Personally I prefer the dragons are monsters version. Dany whispering “fly”, and then on that hill his behavior, well, it was too much ‘how to train your dragon’ to me. Of course, that is only my opinion 🙂
HotPinkLipstick,
Ha, but its not Vogue magazine, its Esquire. They have a certain demographic and that demographic can give a rats ass about couture dresses 😉
Newbietothegame,
In the books tyrion and dany haven’t even met yet. Maybe when she’s heading to westeros they’ll have more screentime together.
Kay,
Main problem I had with Dany S2 was that the book-to-show translation took away a lot of her agency. In the book she’s seen to be politically savvy enough to navigate the Qarth factions and clever enough to navigate the Bizarro Fun House that is the House of the Undying. She’s also smart and savvy enough to set her own people to guard the dragons so they don’t get stolen.
Whereas in the show they make her more of a whiny victim, most her time spent demanding stuff (whereas in the show she didn’t demand; she charged admission to see dragons and used the money for bribes) and then getting taken advantage of. I wasn’t bothered by having different visions in HoTU, though; that’s something I knew would be different, half the stuff referred to by HoTU visions in the books isn’t even going to be in the show. Plus it’s all so MC-Escher-like it would have been impossible to film anyway. I actually liked the show version of HoTU just fine.
And I’ve very much enjoyed Dany’s entire book story, and her show story with the exception of S2. I’m very excited for this upcoming season, because I suspect the Dosh Khaleen know something important to the story that Dany is going to find out from them. Otherwise not much point making her a slave again. (I suspect a longer and more detailed version of this will be the first part of her WoW arc as well.)
As for whether past Targs have hatched dragons from fossilized stone in the books…well, short answer is “no.”
SIGH…..I know…
In one of those inside the episode videos D&D are talking about the fighting pits scene and David mentions about the very deep connection between the targaryens and their dragons and something like how Drogon senses when Dany’s in danger.
I do think that Tyrion will be part of the end game, again not a part of how the end will ultimately happen. We were discussing Daeny and Jon up thread, so that was what I responded to. I think that Arya, Brann and maybe Sansa will all be somehow wrapped up in the end game. None of them are considered Ice/Fire like Daeny and Jon are….but I do think they still have much to give to the overall arc of the story telling.
I would love to see Tyrion survive and I think he will, but as more a survivor of how it all happens and he will make a grand advisor.
Dany in the IT? Poor westeros. She really is a bad ruler even though she comes with the best intentions. I don’t know is the show is going to mention how much she messed up but in the books [Spoiler]Astapor, which she sacked and then walked away and abandoned the remaining Astapori, starving and undefended, under the very clever and long-lasting priest system. I think she was just about out of sight before they started seizing boys and making new unsullied trainees again.
Or perhaps Yunkai? I am not sure she actually even was out of sight before they resumed their slave trade, as well as making a nice vulture’s meal out of the ruins of Astapor.
Then again in Meereen, where her rule has been such an utter failure[\spoiler]
And I know she’s learning and all that but that just makes it worse because she’s not even going to stay there. Instead she will try to conquest another land where she’s also gonna be a foreign ruler…
In the books
I’m a Dany fan but I don’t believe she’ll sit on the IT in the ending. Though I think she could do better in Westeros than in Essos if she had a shot. She wasn’t raised to be a ruler or a queen. So she gotta learn things first. In Westeros she’d probably have better advisors too.
LOL. Stranger things have happened. 😛 I don’t know about Walda’s baby and what will happen to her. But….
and that COULD have something significant to be a part of the end game. Or it could totally not. 😉
You got it. Those who think the wheel will be reconstituted forget that she wants to break the wheel. I’m not sure she consciously knows it yet, but she will develop and see the futility of Targarean rule of old; Stark rule of old; any rule of old.
I like that.
Taken on its own, if Dany’s tale was just a single story within a novel, I think it could be quite an interesting tale. The problem is when you start to connect Dany’s tale with all of the other story lines in Westeros, some of these story lines are truly great tales. At times it almost feels like she isn’t actually a part of the same story, because her story often does not operate on the same rules as the rest.
It is not really Dany’s fault but for example her season 6 arc is incredibly predictable. Once she is found by the Dothraki we know exactly where her story will go and what will happen, and so far the pictures coming out of Spain does not contradict her fate for season 6.
Most of the other story lines are much more unpredictable, we simply dont know exactly what will happen in the other story lines even if we get a few season 6 spoilers along the way.
Basically Dany’s character is in a holding pattern until she finally reaches Westeros. From a story telling perspective we knows she has to reach Westeros at some point, that completely removes any suspense around her character. With most of the other characters we dont always know what will happen with them, and we also know that these other characters aren’t always safe. With Dany we basically know that she is completely safe until she reaches Westeros, and until she faces the White Walkers, so therefore it can at times feel as if she has a different set of rules then the rest of the characters in this world. This makes her even further removed from the plot. That type of predictability can perhaps create less enthusiasm for her story line compared to some of the others.
Things will really get interesting for Dany once she reaches Westeros. I just hope it will happen soon, but we will properly have to wait until season 7 by the look of things.
The Dothraki in Westeros is an interesting proposition. They are known for being a bit barbaric, I dont think their raiding will go over well in Westeros. And they might struggle a bit in cold conditions of Westeros.
BlueDragon,
I wasn’t visiting this site when the episode that had the “break the wheel” line debuted. I’m in the camp that absolutely hated it. It was a sweeping statement that held no merit imo. She included the starks which is complete BS and prior to recent events the IT was occupied by Baratheons for 17yrs
Boudica,
+1….i dont agree with Dany reaching westeros though, she can kick rocks for all I care. The dragons have the green light however
Emilia Clarke earned another accolade, not for her profession but what she inherited from her parents; she’s been honored with Esquire’s Sexiest Woman Alive, gratz Khaleesi!
Well, I was late, the honor goes to “Queen of the Keys”, for posted the news.
God of tits and wine,
Ned Stark was Hand of the King. Robb Stark was the King in the North. They were part of the game of thrones.
JCDavis,
I think the end is going to disappoint a lot of people, likely resulting in a lot of complaints about it being too cliche. I still believe there will be a ruler on the Iron Throne in the end(I believe George has confirmed as much), and I think the odds are high that it will be Dany or Jon.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I 100% sure it will be Jon. Destroying the Iron Throne makes no sense at all. So we saw the Seven kingdoms in chaos and the story will end with even more chaos?
Oh dear, so much Dany angst and hate. I’m counting on her and Tyrion becoming the new dynamic duo, with dragon and Varys assist of course.
OMG, if there is going to be a winner for sure, I should start an office pool now. Or, maybe Las Vegas already has a book.
Yee Haw!
Kilgore Tully,
That song had made me want to join the army even more than I already did before hearing it. Knowing how much the dumbass IRA and, republicans in general, hated the British Army was appealing to my inner troll.
Mihnea,
People saw her burn nobles from Meereen, crucyfying 163 people in the books and so on. Even Viserys was good or decent person but after some time became crazy one. It’s just easy to bring up this with Dany being Mad Queen and next Aerys. Truth is that she never showed that much of madness, but she’s his daughter so little part of him is with her.
Important will be the next council who can help the potential ruler. Just look at Robert. Irresponsible, drunk, whoring himself to early grave. Tywin was rulling practically. If you have someone strong as your Hand of the King like Tyrion. Since I’m counting on his survival. No to mention other useful people like Varys. There is a good chance that next ruler and might be Daeny will be good one. She’s essentially a good person, but her inexperience got the better of her many times.
In the end there is foreshadowing for her death and Daeny on IT is strong option and add to this the fact that YG/Aegon basically a perfect ruler was cut off. She seems to absorb a good part of his arc. Maybe potential marriage proposal from Martells, invading Westeros, Varys preparing everything for her or simply that Jorah is basically JonCon from the books.
Another huge fact for it is simply this…Targaryens restoration seems to me like THE endgame. Not only it’s George’s favourite house and he wrote plenty of things about them. Unless WW wins or each of kingdoms will be independent. It’s the only logical choice for me that family of verge of extinction will end up on throne. Starks in the North.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Exactly. I cannot fathom how at the end of the story there will be no Iron Throne, and in its place a democracy or whatever those people believe. To transition between feudalism to democracy took hundreds of years irl, and it would be the same in Westeros, such a drastic change to happen overnight would cause absolute chaos, literally every great lord, lord, landed knight, prince etc. would rise in rebellion or would simply refuse to relinquish power.
No, at the end of ASOIAF I am willing to bet money that the Iron Throne will still exist… who sits on it is another question. Aegon or Jon would be my guesses, but I have no idea.
Sounds like they’ve wrapped up the northern battle filming (well, certainly the Bolton extras)
A month to film, will be quite a battle/scene
Lol, while skimming there I initially read this as “David and Dan” D&D and not Dany and Drogon D&D
Makes for funny imaginings if you picture David and Dan while reading this post
Chimeny,
Lol
Whole thing will be in tatters
Am hoping that Drogon melts down the Iron Throne while they trash Kings Landing, suspect it may be a case of Aegon vs Dany and a second Dance of the Dragons after Aegon takes control of Viserion
Ghost’s Lunch,
George has said there will be a ruler at the end. Also, no way “Aegon” survives the series or gains control of a dragon. No effin way. 🙂
I agree with this 100%.
I really do think that because GRRM has taken so long with the novels that people have had too much time to speculate about the ending and how certain characters will end up. I am not sure either Dany or Jon will end up on the Iron Throne or if realm will be divided into separate Kingdoms, and neither of these outcomes would surprise me greatly.
But I do believe GRRM is not such as big converter of troupes as many people believe, and it also isn’t a bad thing. Troupes aren’t always just bad cliches, if handled correctly it is also the building blocks of establishing a stronger connection with the audience, and GRRM is really well accomplished in this area.
I think we as fans do sometimes over complicate the plots and the characters in general, and due to all of this speculation and theories some fans are bound to be quite disappointed when the story will perhaps end in a more traditional fashion.
We already saw some of this in season 5, particularly with characters such as Stannis. From the books some people have created a massive story arc for Stannis, when his character went in a different direction then what many people expected it created strong reactions. I think this is something we will see more of especially with secondary characters, people sometimes seem to attach greater importance to the characters then what their eventual outcome in the story might be.
To make a long story short, yes I could actually see characters such a Dany or Jon end up ruling in the end, with Tyrion perhaps as an adviser. Both of them have been groomed for ruling, the whole of ADWD was focused on them learning to be rulers. GRRM must be doing it for some reason otherwise he could have given them very different stories. This grooming must be for a reason and it must be working towards their development as characters. But who knows perhaps these arcs surrounding leadership and ruling will be used for a different outcome.
Totally. If the Dothraki legions actually make it to Westeros, once they feel a snowflake on their oh-so-muscular, he-man shoulders, I suspect they will turn around, shout “Fuck it.” in Dothraki and dog paddle their way over the Narrow Sea back to Essos, possibly swimming into Gendry, who is still rowing in circles. 🙂
(apologies to those who have read this from me before, repeatedly)
This will properly be a very unpopular opinion but I ve never actually seen Robert as a terrible King. He obviously wasn’t a great King but in the history of Westeros and just history in general there have been very few who would really earn the title of being a great King. Robert basically had one minor rebellion in 17 years, his only real problem was the dept he was racking up, but that also isn’t really something that is uncommon. Of course he did not really care for ruling much himself, but luckily it seem like he had some good foresight to hire people such as Jon Arryn who were much better at ruling then he was. In general I believe Robert was actually a pretty decent King all things considered.
I have to say I am quite skeptical about FAegon being this perfect King.
For a start FAegon has been groomed in isolation, he did not have a lot of contact with people, and did not grow up in Westeros. Because of this isolation he seems to be quite naive, which is obviously not surprising for a 18/19 year old.
He obviously has a bit of a petulant temper at times, and Tyrion is able to convince him to go to Westeros quite easily. He seems to be a bit impulsive in some ways. Which all things considered is not really terrible character flaws or anything, but it will be interesting to see what he does with these characteristics in the future.
For me the real situation which made me doubt FAegon’s abilities was when they were being attacked by the stonemen. Everyone reacted to the situation even Tyrion who is not a warrior, but FAegon froze, he basically stood there and did nothing. I think that tells us something. I am not sure FAegon will be very reliable or accountable in difficult situations. But then again who knows, Aegon is still quite young perhaps I am reading to much into that situation.
But in my opinion there were a few cracks that were starting to appear in FAegon.
Of course it would also be very ironic if he actually is the perfect King and he gets killed, but I dont believe we will ever see any perfect rulers or Kings in this series.
I could perhaps see the South and the North ending up as separate kingdoms. The North has always been different from the South there is really no reason for them to be a part of the Seven Kingdoms.
May be Ramsay won the Snowbowl! Hahaha 😉
God of tits and wine,
Well Dany included the Targaryens in her speech (it was the second house she listed after the Lannisters lol) so she was obviously referring to all the major/powerful houses of Westeros. Its also an indication that she recognizes that none of the ruling systems Westeros has had before was ever truly good.
As for the Starks. The Starks were one of the strongest families in Westeros. One could even say that during Robb’s campaign, the Starks were even more powerful than the Lannisters since they were able to defeat them in battle. Heck even Ned’s time as Hand of the King elevated the Starks and put them at the same level in power as the Lannisters. Hand of the King wasn’t some random position, Ned was practically the Prime Minister and the ruler of Westeros at that time. If we look back in time to Westeros prior to Aegon I, the North was considered one of the most powerful regions in the whole continent and the Starks were one of the most powerful family if not the most powerful. They were also known to very ruthless and aggressive as a family. Just because Ned and his family seemed like characters that popped out of a Disney movie doesn’t make the rest of the Starks good.
LOL, I completely disagree. To me, from having watched the show, Tyrion IS very much one of the lead characters. Arya and Sansa to me, are below in rank than Daenerys, Jon and Tyrion, even though they are Starks. 😀
That could well be. From what you said, I wish they had followed that course in the show. I take it that her Season 4 storyline in the show pretty much followed the books? I found it totally atrocious (for me her S2>> her S4), and I wonder why book readers don’t complain about it much.
I noticed at that time that many (book readers especially) did not even take into account that she included Targs in her break-the-wheel speech. If she has her way, no IT and a feudal system in which a handful of families share 99% of the wealth. 😀
The Boy Jon Snow is dead, The Man Jon Snow is Born, like the teagerian advice him”kill the boy”.
Ghost’s Lunch,
8 or 9 weeks of filming = White Walkers!
Maria,
I agree with you, and I don’t say the book version was bad. But I simply enjoyed this version much more.
It basically followed the books, but everything after episode 5, except Jorah’s banishment, was from the fifth book. That’s why the season feels so disjointed for Dany. It begins with a clear arc: getting Meereen. Once she has the city, though, there is not much in terms of a plotline. Sure, there are a lot of small plots with the thematic connection of “learning to rule”, so there’s certainly a story there for Dany. Yet, there isn’t any over-arching plot, because they were waiting for Season 5 to introduce the Sons of the Harpy.
I liked her arc in season four a lot. I liked the first half because of the plot, which felt a lot like season 3 because it came from the same book (in ASOS, she sacked Astapor, freed Yunkai and conquered Meereen all in the same book, which ended when she decided to stay in Meereen to rule). That said, I also loved the second half of the season because the plot slowing down allowed for Dany’s character to develop further than she had in a while. Conquering city after city doesn’t leave much time for character development, it seems. Her failures in the latter half of Season 4 are utterly essential and defining to her character and to the compromising decisions she takes in Season 5.
If you enjoy the advancement of the plot above all else, I’d wager your favorite season for Dany is the third, followed by the first one or the fifth one. And there’s nothing wrong with that. Her third season was certainly the most eventful, and it included one of the most dramatic and impressive moments of the whole series (“Dracarys”). Yet, personally I really enjoyed the slower pace early in Meereen; she has to deal with a number of different issues (Drogon eating sheep, jobless ex-slaves, Jorah’s treason, Drogon eating a child) that have no connective plot tissue yet connect thematically to the character of Dany.
O_o,
Drogon clearly burn an unsullied, if you wach it again.
Also Drogon coming to the right time is simply to make it more dramatic, no other motive, Dany clearly doesn’t summon him.
Also see. Here my food metaphor, is working quite good to express my feelings. Just like when my wife tried to make me eat sheep meat, She kept saying how good it was, how healthy,..etc.
I understand your complaints/arguments, But they simply don’t amply too me.
Some like the dragon tamer version, I find it boring and quite bad, especially from a 16 year old. Some like the mother/child version, wich some find boring and quiite bad.
I simply disagree with you here. The only thing we have to support this is Varys word, not so trust worth in my opinion. While in fact he acted in all chapters we actoully see him, as a spolied brat, simply not fit to rule. The only possible good thing that could happen if he ruled, was a Jon/Doran/Varys council wich took care of the realm.
Not going to enter in the other arguments, alltough I agree that Aerys madness, is a big part in Dany’s story, just like it was showed this season in her talk with Selmy.
It is a constant battle of doing whats right, but not going too far and do the same mistakes her father did.
This! This! 100 times this!!
Granted, Drogon was just generally less destructive on the show (even if he had only attacked Harpies, which he didn’t, the number wasn’t in the hundreds, as it is in the books), and the producers obviously refocused the scene so that Drogon is defending his mother (and later, when he’s injured, her mother defends him), but that’s not too different from the books, thematically (Dany does think that flying away on Drogon feels like freedom, etc). Most of all: in the show, Drogon burnt at least one Unsullied to a crisp!
Bareeq,
Agreed, people seem so quick to point out that Dany is wrong for including the Starks, they forget she included her house, in the metaphor.
She didn’t mean she wants to kill all the Stark’s/Tyrell’s,..etc. She meant the entire political system, this ”game”, has too go away/end.
Luka Nieto,
I liked Dany in S4 for the same reason. Seeing the old man wanting to sell himself again was very well done, the little girl dying by drogon, chaining the dragons,..etc.
All in all it was a good story for me. It set-up her making compromises very well.
Altough I agree, too a book reader, like me, it was clear they where waiting for S5 to introduce TSOTH.
This of course is a side-effect of wanting to end S3 with the ”mhysa” scene, wich was a very good decision in my opinion, but it led to some pacing issues in S4.
Luka Nieto,
Also there where no SOTH in the books for Drogon to burn. There where only guards, so it makes perfect sense for Drogon too attack the SOTH, as they where a lot there, and attacking him.
Two things I’m tired of:
1. People saying Dany will never rule because she’s a terrible ruler, as if she has no room for growth. She’s a 15 year old child (still!) at the end of ADWD who has had no leadership training and no good role models. But that doesn’t mean she’s going to be static forever. With the right advisors she has the capacity for so much.
2. People here saying they have no interest in Essos yet creaming themselves for whatever random Northern lord has been cast. 2 of the big 3 characters are in Essos right now, this isn’t just Jon’s story. And as far as The Others go, do people forget that the Azor Ahai tale originates in Essos? The fight against The Others, the fight to live, will affect ALL of man-kind, not just westeros. So clearly Essos, and the people in it, will play a huge role.
Mihnea,
I meant as perfect ruler in Varys’ eyes. I should have phrased it better. Of course noone is literally perfect to me and he certainly has some flaws like others. He can be spoiled brat, but Dany and Jon too. At his age not something unusual. But he understands small folk and nobles(something Dany lacks in Meereen as Tyrion said it), groomed for ruling since young age, right name (well sort of) and army at this back. But if I can choose from those Jon, Dany, Aegon in the books. Aegon would be the best option. Since they’re on the show basically merging Dany and Aegon into one person. Dany would be mine option. Jon not really. He’s leader, warrior but not ruler. It’s not just in his blood. Same as Ned.
About Aerys. Her convo with Tyrion was telling. Children of two terrible fathers. Dany knows that she can’t escape her father reputation which is one of the things her enemies could use against her. Daughter of Mad King and you know what they say about him.
D&D and director Dan Sackheim on set yesterday.
http://oi57.tinypic.com/1q660z.jpg
Many people disliked the wheel Speech because they thought it didn’t make sense and it was just something to get attention to the trailer. And also because she included the starks because apparently some people think all starks were honored like Ned and his family, and as some of you have pointed out, she included her own family in the speech, so it’s not like she agreed with them either.
I’m just not sure what she intends. To be an absolute monarch or what. There’s gonna be no time to institutionalize a democracy anyways. And as GRRM already confirmed someone will sit on the IT in the end.
Kargaryen,
I think she meant to put an and to this ”Game of Thrones”, no more fighting betwean families, no more conspiracy, no more chance for people like LF to create chaos.
No more petty wars, started by great/high lords without thinking at all about the people.
Altough she didn’t make her intentions 100% clear, I suspect she herself doesn’t know how to put an end to them. I alway took this speach, and many of Dany’s speaches, as what she wants to do, help the people, justice, no petty fighting,..etc.
So ideals, or hopes/dreams, rather then concrete plans of action.
Thats why she mentioned her own family, she knows the Targaryans are/where a part of the problem, and she wants to change that. How? Well we have 3 more seasons to go, so I suspect this questions will come up many more times.
Altough I’m very convinced that she doesn’t even think about a ”democracy”. More like her guiding, keeping the people safe.
A nice example I always think of, when Dany is concerd, is Elizabeth I queen of england. She sacrificed her familly, by having no hair, thus the possibilly of future stability, (but also turmoil, Mary, her sister tried to marry, and the question of whatever it would be a chatolic husband or a protestant one, coused great turmoil inside the country) She sacrificed this things for peace and stability in her lifetime.
It’s a ”give-and-take” situation, sometimes you have too sacrifice the posibility of future stability (many times this one is sacrificed, as you just have no idea what the future holds), for peace and stability, in your lifetime.
So in a short version: Your question is a complicated one, that no doubt will be put forth in the next seasons, aswell.
Mihnea,
Mary did marry, and there was never a question: he would be a Catholic. Mary was much more interested in warming Protestants with kindling than in warming their beds! Her husband was a rather famous Catholic at that!
The English were still fairly divided about Christianity at that time, but Mary suuccesfully settled the issue by making it almost oatriotic (before patriotic was really a notion) to be Protestant. That was sort of ironic, given that she intended to have the opposite effect.
That written, I think that you are corrct that Daeny does not know how to stop the wheel. However, this is the difference between strategy and tactics: she has a strategy, now she needs tactics.
And as for Daeny including the Starks, why wouldn’t she? Ned Stark was a man devoid of honor in her eyes, just like the rest of them.
Also, I very much am one who is much more interested in the storylines set in Essos than the ones set in Westeros. Only Jon’s storyline grabs me in the west, whereas Daeny’s, Tyrion’s and Arya’s all are quite interesting. (And it is telling that 3 of the 4 most important protagonists are in Essos.)
lord of blogfell,
She needs a bigger army. 40000 screaming dothraki doesn’t sound bad, the 7000 or so Unsullied left won’t win her the throne and probably not win over the WW. This is a necessary part of the story because she simply does not have the numbers.
Wimsey,
And that is what happens when you learn history from TV Documentaries!
Damn you communist regime for not teaching real history when I was in school!
(Also I know Mary married, Philip II of spain, and I remenber now yes that it was quite certain she would marry a chatolic, I confused this part with Elizabeth’s marriege questions.)
Stargaryen,
When did 2000 Unsullied die? I doubt the Harpies were that successful in their guerrilla warefare…
That said, yes. She needs more than 7000 or even 9000 Unsullied, if she wants to conquer all of Westeros. Many more.
Going back to Tyrion as the ruler in the end. I just don’t see it, I doubt HE see’s it for himself. He is a self proclaimed “God of tits and wine”. The whole time he is having what I considered a very serious talk with Daeny, he can’t drain the wine fast enough, to where she makes a comment about it. I do believe that Tyrion will rise to “an” occasion when need be. So advisor is a better role for him. He can do as he wants for most of the time and still do whatever duty is required…..as Hand or as Master of the Coin. But to me, as king he would just be another Robert Baratheon not really interested in running a kingdom and making it grow, but more about how many women can be bed and how drunk can he get. People say that by comparison he wasn’t a bad king…well he wasn’t a good king either. Certainly not one that you would want to model the future of Westeros or greater on. But he would be fun to have around. Exceptionally intelligent and witty and clever. Perfect for an advisor.
Stargaryen,
Wasn’t it 100 000 Dothraki? Largest Khalasar ever. Dragons, Dothraki, Second Sons and Unsullied. Dorne another powerful ally and other houses might support her cause. Taht should be enough to conquer Westeros or large part of it but WW no.
JCDavis,
I politely disagree. Tyrion told Varys he liked being the Hand and the power that came with it. True, he has a drinking problem. But he does have sound qualities that would make for a good King.
I don’t know – I think it would be a cool parallel to Jon’s difficulties convincing people of the WW threat if Drogon shows up and impresses the first khalasar she runs into, but then flies off on his own again for a while. So she has one khalasar in her pocket, but when they try to convince others at a moot that she’s the Mother of Dragons, no one believes her until Drogon finds her again.
Like I said above, he would make a great Hand or right hand position of the ruler. Just to say “sure he loves whoring and drinking” but that wouldn’t be a bad thing. As King, I think it would. I love Tyrion, maybe my very favorite of all the characters in GoT’s, but objectively I can’t see him leading all of Westeros/Essos out of a horrid situation it is going to be in. But if I were a leader I can’t think of anyone I would rather have by my side than Tyrion. He would make the best advisor, but also be a great person to have when I wanted to let my hair down and just take a break from it all.
Aside from the fact that it would just seem like a tease if Dany’s consultation with Tyrion turned out to be as brief as we’ve already seen, I also think that her invasion plan seriously needs him. Not for nothing did both books and show ensure that we know that Tyrion knows his way around Casterly Rock’s drainage system. He’s her ticket to infiltrating that supposedly impregnable stronghold, if nothing else.
Firannion,
I agree on Dany needing Tyrion. He knows a lot about Westeros society/politics,..etc that Dany simply doesn’t.
I disagree on that little detail with the ”drainage”, I’m willing to bet money that it won’t be mentioned again, except maybe in a comedic way.
You see this detail is not a problem, but a symptom, of carefully picking every detail for years, upon years. Something wich has been done by the book community excesivly, and when it is confirmed it was just a tiny little detail, then people get angry that their carefull planned theories where not true.
Firannion,
I agree with you here too. That is why I’m glad that the Dothraki haven’t found Dany with Drogon already.
It will make much more powerfull/dramatic if she unites all the kalasars at once in Vaes Dothrak.
Aegon really does not have much experience in dealing with a lot of people. He was raised in a very isolated manner by a few loyal people. A lot of Kings throughout history were groomed for ruling from an early age, it really doesn’t mean anything. If it was so simple to groom Kings for ruling then we would still have Kings.
Ruling effective has a lot of different factions. In fact throughout history it has often been those who where not groomed for ruling who made the best Kings.
Basically at this stage Aegon has not been tested yet and he has no experience of what ruling actually means. In the one dangerous situation where he had to react he basically just froze and couldn’t do anything, that is not a good sign for his future as a ruler.
Both Dany and Jon had to rule in extremely difficult situations. It would be easier for Dany to negotiate with the nobles in Westeros since the main issue with the nobles in Mereen has always been about the slavery. Of course it will not be easy, but the main contention of slavery would at least not be present.
Jon was ruling much more like a King then the head of a military establishment, I would even say that was sort of his problem in the end. He acted like a King, while he was really the Lord Commander of basically a military establishment.
He organised building projects, he relocated people and give them farmlands he organised a loan to feed his people and he arranged a political marriage. Those types of actions are exactly what a King does while ruling.
I think Dany and Jon would be much better for ruling then Aegon, who really hasn’t proven himself yet.
Ned wasn’t good with Southern politics but he was a great ruler. The North lived peacefully under his rule for many years. The mountain clans said that when Ned was the ruler of the North a girl could walk alone through the Wolfswood at night without being molested. There is a reason why so many Stark bannermen remains so fiercely loyal to the Starks. It is because Ned was such a good ruler.
Politics and actually ruling are two very different things.
I agree that the jump from absolute hereditary monarchy to a democracy or republic is too big to happen all at once; but there are possible ‘intermediate’ forms of government, like a parliamentary system with a figurehead monarch. The character who in my opinion is intelligent enough, thinks outside the box enough and is soured enough on the inheritance model to pursue such an alternative system is Tyrion. So if both Jon and Dany are called upon to sacrifice themselves in the big final battle (which seems no less likely than either of them surviving it), Tyrion could be the one leading the effort to piece together a new society out of the rubble. I probably won’t get my wish, but I think that’s the ending that would satisfy me best.
Tyrion liked being in a position of playing courtly games. He is good at playing the politics around the throne but actually ruling is something quite different. Actual ruling is more about passing judgement on petitions, and hearing the day to day problems the Lords might have. We saw some of this in the show when Bran was ruling as the Lord of Winterfell.
I dont think Tyrion would really be that interested in that part of the job. But he could be a great political adviser to someone else.
Drogon’s khalasar had 40k dothraki. After he dies his bloodriders split the khalasar in 3 others but I think it’s mentioned that the dothraki are around 100k. I believe Dany’s destiny is unite all khalasars, they did put much emphasis in that prophecy both in the show and in the books, so if she is indeed the stallion who mounts the World (or Drogon, but we know at some point she’ll have control over him), she might get an army even bigger than Drogo’s.
Just not sure how the dothraki would deal with winter. But her army of dothraki, unsullied, second sons + teen dragons should be enough to conquer Westeros because most people there are tired for fighting their own wars for years. It would be easier for them just to bend their knees imho.
Now the WW is something much different/diffcult.
I disagree that Tyrion’s appetite for wine and women would necessarily send him down the same road as Robert if he found himself in a leadership position. To me it has been pretty clear that his drinking and whoring are self-medication against the bitterness he feels over having been cut out of the power loop by his father and having most women look at him with revulsion for most of his life. When he was entrusted with real responsibility as Hand, his drinking was much more moderate. And he was perfectly happy to have a monogamous relationship with Shae, until he had to send her away for her own safety. Being empowered tends to bring out the best in him.
I find this aspect of ADwD’s final pages quite interesting, primarily because it is so different from what is depicted onscreen. In Dany’s last chapter, she follows a stream hoping to find some way back to Meereen, all the while having amazing visions and mental debates/discussions with various dead/alive characters regarding her growth and destiny, in between diarrhea, vomiting and menstrual bleeding spells. She sees Drogon flying around and hunting…the point is, he definitely knows where she is.
But what is key here is that Dany is the one who comes across a Dothraki scout, who doesn’t see her but he sees Drogon flying around. The scout turns and heads back toward the khalsar, while Dany calls for Drogon, who arrives quickly! Dany jumps on Drogon and, without the whip, controls and guides him. Their bond is almost seamless now (whereas in the past few days around Drogon’s cave, she could barely control him with the whip when flying). This is a huge maturation in their bond, imho. D & D (Dany & Drogon!) intentionally track the scout and Drogon makes a meal of him quickly. It is only then that Jhaqo’s khalasar appears.
Dany has “killed the girl” at this point. She is Fire & Blood. To me, this is a fascinating and key development as Dany “goes east in order to go west” and reacquaints herself, quite assertively, with the Dothraki.
This difference between show/book means quite a bit to me, since I found Dany’s last chapter in ADwD so beautifully developed. 🙂
Hodor’s Bastard,
We can also have those things later. Perhaps they want to have Dany and Drogon togheter only at VD, when she unites the Dothraki, so it makes it more dramatic.
Something I tought of today: while in VD Drogon flies above VD, all the Dothraki hide/run in fear, But Dany calls to him and he comes. This in my opinion would be a good combination of the 2 scenes.
I also expect to see more flying on Drogon this season. But we also have to be realistical here, there is a budget, time constraints and so on. She will fly only when it’s really needed.
Not going to enter a debate on Dany’s last chapter, I made myself quite clear, I find it quite boring, and even bad at times.
Hodor’s Bastard,
What I like the most about that part is that she even forgot the name of that girl Drogon killed, something that tormented her for most of the book. She kept saying her name. At the end of the book, she’s ready to be the mother of dragons again and leave the mhysa behind.
There are some short videos of the filming yesterday in almeria in the link below. They filmed until very late according to the article. Though can’t see a damn thing in any of the videos.
http://u.melty.es/43p3
They said around 400 extras were working in the scenes.
Most definitely…a hurdle well-depicted during her soul-searching meanderings along the river! I also like how GRRM almost has fun with her internal acceptance and growth struggles in the following passage, as she attempts to shield her bald (!) head from the hot Dothraki Sea sun:
“You are the blood of the dragon, you can make a hat.”
🙂
Lmfao that was such a funny part.
I hope so 🙂
Eating partially cooked horsemeat from one of the Dothraki’s mounts, no less.
I agree it’s a good growth section, Bastard, but if that’s a menstrual period, I’m a Dutchman’s aunt. She’s in pain, bleeding heavily at the wrong time of the month, and hasn’t bled for several months previously. Trust me (GRR Martin researches his information very well, such as the fact that rotting large mammal carcasses smell of fish): It’s a miscarriage, probably of Daario’s child.
I have never come across that observation before. Thx! That puts an amazing new light (for me) on Dany’s rough ride on Drogon out of Daznaks and her lethargy afterward. It also furthers the metaphor that each miscarriage represents the end of one phase and beginning of a new one. Mucho respect, DP!