David Nutter and Jessica Henwick look ahead at the Game of Thrones season finale

Nymeria Sand

It’s hard to believe we’re almost at the Game of Thrones season finale already,  but then time flies when you love a show with only ten episodes per year. We have a couple new interviews today that look forward at the finale with hints of things to come.

After “The Dance of Dragons,” it wasn’t clear if we’d see Dorne again. With Doran’s negotiations in place, no one knew quite what to expect. Well now a new interview with Jessica Henwick hints that things in Dorne will once again heat up in the finale.

Henwick spoke with Yahoo News Singapore when she was in town there recently and confirmed the Sand Snakes will be part of something “extreme” this coming Sunday.

“What happens with the Sand Snakes is…extreme. Very extreme. So I’m really curious to see how people take it. I don’t know what else I can say!” the actress tells Yahoo Singapore. “Episode 10 sets the rest of the show on a very certain path. It’s a big move in Game of Thrones, and the Sand Snakes are a part of it.”

Yahoo tries to get some info on her alleged role in Star Wars: The Force Awakens but Henwick remains cagey, saying, “If I had a Singaporean dollar for every time I got asked that question, I would not be rich, but if I had a pound, I’d be pretty damn rich.”

She is also unable to confirm whether or not she’ll be able in season 6. She says, “I don’t know, to be honest.”

Check out the rest of the interview for more on pulling off her own whip stunts this year.

The director of last week and this Sunday’s episodes, David Nutter, talks to Vulture about his work on the series. The interview is mainly focused on the handling of the difficult Shireen and Daznak’s Pit scenes, as Nutter is smartly tight-lipped on the future.

Of “Mother’s Mercy,” Nutter is quoted as saying, “All I can tell you is that it’s like no season finale they’ve had before.”

The director offers a lot of insight into “The Dance of Dragons,” explaining how much CGI went into creating the gladiator ring and thousands of extras needed for the final sequence. He agrees it was tougher to film than the Red Wedding massacre, which he also directed.

“Oh yes, much more involved because of the scope of it, and 1,000 extras every day. It took 12 days to shoot the entire sequence.”

For all the directorial details of “The Dance of Dragons,” head over to Vulture.

Album artJust a reminder- the Game of Thrones Season 5 Soundtrack is now available for purchase digitally! 

 

 

371 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. Robb Snow,

      No, I’m good friends with Myrcella’s double and she told me that she probably won’t be back in season 6 as her double as Myrcella’s scenes will be shot in Dubrovnik as she will be in King’s Landing. (we are from Spain and she filmed in the alcazar)

        Quote  Reply

    2. Oberyn’s left eye:
      OK Im calling it now,…..Jamie dies the next episode

      Somebody from the Jaime/Bronn/Myrcella in the Dorne storyline dies, from the sounds of it. If Doran’s running the ship, I don’t think it will be Myrcella, and Bronn’s not politically important enough for his death to carry any wider ramifications. Ellaria was weirdly chummy with Jaime after her talk with Doran; maybe she’s trying to get him to let his guard down.

      Or Ellaria and the Sand Snakes could go behind Doran’s back again and murder Myrcella. I highly doubt it, though.

        Quote  Reply

    3. Ozy,

      How is that stupid?..if LSH ends up hanging Jamie in TWOW…this may be how he meets his end in the show..just speculation

        Quote  Reply

    4. I knew it. I’m surprised people thought Dorne was all wrapped up in Ep. 9. It seemed obvious to me that something big was still to come.

        Quote  Reply

    5. Jaime’s stuff in Season 4 w/ Tyrion and Tywin was some of my favorite material for the character. Just because he didn’t have as much “action” as in Season 3 does not mean that the showrunners “did nothing with his character”.

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    6. If the Sand Snakes go full Darkstar, I just hope they don’t say “we’re of the night”…I know we sometimes cry about leaving iconic lines out of the show, but please, keep that one out

        Quote  Reply

    7. Goochbot:
      Can’t wait. The Children will be a hard finale to top, but I have faith they can pull it off.

      I liked The Children a lot, but for me Fire and Blood remains the best season ender, and I probably would put Valar Morghulis next, then The Children.

        Quote  Reply

    8. Isn’t it Jamie voice in the preview for episode 10 saying, “We don’t chose who we love”? Why would Jamie’s voice be in the preview but not Dorne? Of course Dorne is in the finale.

      I think this finale will be unlike any other because a lot of people will die. Whereas other finales have been a “clean-up” of episode 9, this one will be death…death…death…cliffhanger. At least, that’s where my money is.

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    9. Franco,

      “My name is Obara Sand and I fight for Dorne. Who do YOU fight for?” as she kills Jaime and Bronn, there-by cementing her as the most hated character on GOT. So much so that people actually wish Ramsey and Stannis take turns stabbing her…

        Quote  Reply

    10. In the Synopsis for ep. 10 it says “Dany is surrounded by strangers”. I totally thought this was going to be her surrounded by the harpies like they showed in the pre-season trailer. Now I’m totally excited about what this can be!

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    11. Ser Matt the Sullen,

      All main actors have body doubles. It’s not just for fight scenes/stunts. I’ve worked as a body double before and you’re basically either standing in the place where the character will be for hours while they adjust lights (this takes SO LONG)/set up and prepare for the scene or you’re in a shot from far away where the character’s face is not distinguishable. They don’t have to pay for the actors to do this kind of tedious stuff, and it saves on time.

        Quote  Reply

    12. I really think they should keep the major character deaths to a minimum in the finale. We’re already probably getting

      For the Watch

      this episode so Jaime and/or other big characters dying would be overkill (no pun intended).

        Quote  Reply

    13. Ser Matt the Sullen,

      Every actor on the show probably has a double. Body doubles don’t just mean doubles for nude scenes, they’re used for shots at a distance if the principal actor is filming something else, or they’re used for pickup shots where the principal actor’s face wouldn’t appear (like if one person is speaking to another and you only see the back of the head).

        Quote  Reply

    14. Well let’s see… Trystane going to King’s Landing… No Darkstar… Tyene not a septa….

      I think they’re all gonners. Doran will solidify his alliance with the Lannisters by offing Oberyn’s daughters.

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    15. Ser Matt the Sullen,

      Well a body double is different than a stunt double, right?
      So I assume it’s just for when she gets tired, or different shots, or something like that.

      (although she hasn’t had many scenes)

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    16. And, for the love of god(s), can we talk about the soundtrack or what?! 😀

      I’m so in love with Hardhome Parts 1&2. I just luv what Ramin did with that sequence. So unbelievably creepy and intense.

      I haven’t yet listened to the tracks from the finale (I don’t want to be musically spoiled), so I’ll rely on your guys’ response for those. But the rest of the CD is just completely magnificent! 😀

        Quote  Reply

    17. If Jaime dies then I think that will be the quitting point for the show for me. He had an interesting plotline with Brienne and still has a lot of unfinished business with Cersei. To kill him off now in this disaster that is Dorne would be silly.
      I’m thinking it’s going to Myrcella and/or Bronn, although I don’t know how that fits in with them putting Trystane in KL as if Myrcella is dead then anyone from Dorne isn’t going ot be welcome on the small council.
      I think Ellaria and/or one of the snakes could be in for the chop too. Must admit this plotline worries me.
      I’m hoping Hotah takes Ellarias head (can’t see what role she plays going forward) as she injures Myrcella and afterwards the Sand Snakes are given insight to Doran’s plan in the last Dornish scene this season…and hopefully ever! Can’t say she wasn’t warned.

      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      To be fair, he’s done more than Sansa and Brienne and yet they seem to still be prominent.

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    18. John M W:
      And, for the love of god(s), can we talk about the soundtrack or what?!

      I’m so in love with Hardhome Parts 1&2. I just luv what Ramin did with that sequence. So unbelievably creepy and intense.

      I haven’t yet listened to the tracks from the finale (I don’t want to be musically spoiled), so I’ll rely on your guys’ response for those. But the rest of the CD is just completely magnificent!

      I’ve listened to it a few times over the course of the day.

      By the way, does anyone know what song was playing during Barristan’s scene. Is it on the soundtrack or a previous one?

      (I wish we had a version of Dornishman’s Wife on the soundtrack and maybe a full version of that Bravos Canal song though lol)

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    19. “Extreme”
      “Shocking”
      “Bigger than the Red Wedding”
      “Intense”
      “Unbelievable”
      “Fans will be floored”

      If I had a Singaporean dollar for every time an actor has touted an episode they’re in with one of those phrases….

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    20. “All I can tell you is that it’s like no season finale they’ve had before.”
      They haven’t ended a season on a cliffhanger so far. I’ll be watching in a movie theatre in Canada with a thousand other fans and I imagine the curtain closing while we all scream in frustration.

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    21. What’s the point of the Dorne scenes last episode if it’s just to kill Jaime or Bronn? Don’t get it. Then again, not much has made sense in Dorne so far so who knows.

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    22. Chris:
      By the way, does anyone know what song was playing during Barristan’s scene.Is it on the soundtrack or a previous one?

      I assume your referring to his big fight scene. It’s contained somewhere in the middle of “Son of the Harpy”, the second to last track.

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    23. anyone who thinks Jaime is going to die before this story is over hasnt been paying attention. Especially by some random character from Dorne. If he dies it will be together with Cersei but i dont think he will die at all. He seems to be the main hero of the story. Of course it being GRRM that isnt immediately apparent.
      Hadnt we heard one sand snake would die?

      Possible plot:
      Scene 1 Ellaria instructs Sand Snakes to kidnap Myrcella.
      Scene 2 Doran tells everything to Ellaria but Snakes are already gone 😉
      Scene 3 Sand Snakes injure Myrcella (her ear no doubt). Either Hotah kills Obara (please) or Bronn kills Tyene. Which would be really sad.

      Hmm thats not spoiler tags… Which one is?

        Quote  Reply

    24. Interesting comments.

      Doran would look incredibly weak if Elaria and the Sand Snakes go full Darkstar… he would have to kill them at that point.

      My guess would be they serve him and execute some part of his larger plan which i have a hard time believing is just trying to remain on good terms with the Lannister’s.

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    25. Oberyn’s left eye,

      I don’t know. Doran seemingly wants to prevent open war with the Lannisters and if he wanted Jaime dead, he wouldn’t have needed to set up a deal with him last episode. So I can’t quite figure out how killing Jaime (or Myrcella) would fit in with what happened so far. Ellaria and the Sand Snakes could go behind Doran’s back, of course, but Ellaria’s conversation with Jaime suggested she was already in on Doran’s plans at that point.

      Killing Tommen would make a lot more sense, since that would make Myrcella queen and Trystane king, eventually. But could the Sand Snakes really make it to King’s Landing by next episode? Maybe Tommen has already been abducted from his room in which he supposedly locked himself up, though, and is being brought to Dorne? However, this would mean Dorne has an agent in King’s Landing helping them. And there are really only two or three people who could pull this kind of stunt of.

      1) Littlefinger. But his gambit is already all over the place without involving Dorne and he seems focused on the North for now.

      2) Olenna, who’s been promised a “young man” by Littlefinger. But the Tyrells have absolutely nothing to gain from abducting Tommen and helping Dorne.

      3) Varys. But he’s Team Targaryen and also has nothing to gain from Myrcella and Trystane ruling the Seven Kingdoms. Unless the plan is for Myrcella to die after their wedding and to hand the throne over to Daenerys without a fight through marriage to Trystane.

      Well, in any case, I’m quite interested to see what’s actually going to happen.

        Quote  Reply

    26. I don’t think many of us would particularly miss Myrcella (sorry), so if it’s Bronn or Jaime they better cut off a few snake heads as well. I’d miss Jaime. His story would seem very unfinished to me, he’s interesting to watch. I love Bronn but have expected him to die all season.

        Quote  Reply

    27. Joffrey’s Cunt,

      People have been saying that since the season began, but I’ve never seen the logic behind it, and every time the thing people think will kill him doesn’t the goal posts move.

        Quote  Reply

    28. spacechampion:
      “All I can tell you is that it’s like no season finale they’ve had before.”
      They haven’t ended a season on a cliffhanger so far.I’ll be watching in a movie theatre in Canada with a thousand other fans and I imagine the curtain closing while we all scream in frustration.

      Season 2 ended in a big cliffhanger…

      …so big that they had no idea how to continue it and just ignore it in season 3

        Quote  Reply

    29. Yeah, I knew there was no way Dorne was finished last week. Even though WiC was posting that we’d seen the last of it, lol.

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    30. This is why I feel like Jamie will die next episode,…I think his character will be merged with Arys Oakheart story line from the books…we know Dan and Dave have merged characters before……I think Jamie will die in the next book when he falls into the hands of LSH…aaaaaand since LSH isn’t in the show and Brienne’s story line is completely different in the show..they will give Jamie the best out they can…..A knight redeeming himself with one last fight to protect his niece(daughter)…also this will cause a shit storm in KL when they find out Jamie has been killed in Dorne

        Quote  Reply

    31. Chris,

      Would flat out suck balls! My predcition is Jaime will be the one who kills Cersei. There’s the prohecy on the valonqar in the books plus I think there willl be parralells with the Mad King only this time it’s Mad Queen he has to stop. Don’t think he’ll make it out of the story alive either. Best he can hope for is the Wall…if it’s even still there or needed when all is said and done.
      Perhaps one twist would be the Sand Snakes kill Ellaria?

        Quote  Reply

    32. Tommen needs a golden shroud and Myrcella needs a golden crown (and a golden shroud somewhere down the line)

      So they might have to fire up the old transporter and get the sand snakes to King’s Landing in time for this episode.

      From my reading of that interview linked above, I don’t think she says that what she is hinting at happens in Dorne.

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    33. Tibatonk:

      3) Varys. But he’s Team Targaryen and also has nothing to gain from Myrcella and Trystane ruling the Seven Kingdoms. Unless the plan is for Myrcella to die after their wedding and to hand the throne over to Daenerys without a fight through marriage to Trystane.

      That’s my guess.

        Quote  Reply

    34. Dolorous Methuselah:
      Tommenneeds a golden shroud and Myrcella needs a golden crown (and a golden shroud somewhere down the line)

      So they might have to fire up the old transporter and get the sand snakes to King’s Landing in time for this episode.

      From my reading of that interview linked above, I don’t think she says that what she is hinting at happens in Dorne.

      Hmm, are we sure ‘golden crown’ doesn’t just refer to their hair?

        Quote  Reply

    35. Really glad to hear that the story in Dorne isn’t over yet for the season. No matter what the climax of the storyline is, it hasn’t happened yet this year.

      I’m going to go with Occam’s Razor here and just say that it’s a variation on the Fire and Blood plot (allying with Dany, even if it’s not a marriage plot) and the dispatching of the Sand Snakes on their individual missions.

      Maybe one of them gets sent to infiltrate the Citadel (Tyene is my guess, but that’s probably because of her hair length lol), one to the Faith Militant (Obara, maybe) and one to King’s Landing in general (Nymeria? Although Tyene is the poison expert and I fully expect whoever fills this role to poison Tommen. Either her or the one who goes to the FM).

      I don’t know that anyone has to die for it to be shocking or set up the rest of the series. Dorne is a logical path to giving Dany a foothold in Westeros and they have one of the few unscathed armies left (the Vale). Myrcella hasn’t been crowned yet, so she’s “safe” until that happens (though it could in E10). Killing Jaime in the same episode as Jon’s “death(?)” would cheapen his death, which should be a showcase, episode-ending death when/if it happens. Bronn, Ellaria or one of the Snakes are possible, but I think last episode really did end their rebellion.

      One possible shock that I think might happen is Varys either making an appearance in Dorne or being referenced by Doran. We’ll see him either here or in King’s Landing for sure. KL is much more likely, though, but tying Doran and Dorne into Varys and Illyrio’s conspiracy would set up Dany’s potential invasion nicely.

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    36. The ideal turnout of the Dorne storyline:
      Obara isn’t satisfied and goes after Myrcella again, but with the intention of killing her. Tyene and Nym try to stop her, but are too late. Obara kills Myrcella, and is then killed herself by either Bronn, Areo, or (I hope) one of her own sisters. I’d also like Doran to reveal his plans.

      Whatever happens, I hope it doesn’t involve ALL the sand snakes attacking Myrcella (AGAIN!) or Ellaria having lied last ep and try to off Myrcella again.

      And there’s no way Jaime dies, IMO. None. He still has unfinished business with Cersei and Brienne.

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    37. I hope we see Varys in Dorne. I also think Doran will be clever enough to make sure Myrcella and Trystane are married before they leave Dorne – so that Cersei has to accept a Dornish son-in-law. One of the Sand Snakes could be given the assignment to off Tommen, so that Trystane will arrive in KL as King Consort. For now, of course. 😉 Bronn is probably a goner. Jaime has more to do with Tyrion – I am CERTAIN. Each has name-checked the other this season.

        Quote  Reply

    38. Chris,

      The general interpretation has been that:

      both Tommen and Myrcella will be literally crowned before their respective deaths.

        Quote  Reply

    39. Pod actor’s Internet breaking moment:

      “When the battle begins, promise you’ll protect me Princess.” “I promise.” Remember that line….

        Quote  Reply

    40. Death has hung all over the scenes with Jaime and Bronn (both together and in their individual scenes) this season.

      I will be utterly shocked if both of them make it out of the finale alive.

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    41. Everyone loves Bronn but is he a big enough character to be a key death in ep 10? So far we’ve had mid-ranking character deaths, nothing like Tywin and Joffrey. He’d be another one.

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    42. Kay,
      I was also wondering why Doran didn’t insist on Trystane and Myrcella being married before they left Dorne. They want to get married ASAP anyway and having the wedding now means Cersei can’t have him set aside (except by having him killed lol) once she gets her daughter back in King’s Landing. The EW article from before the start of the season did say there were three weddings this season (it’s possible the author was making an assumption, I suppose) and as far as I know Dany and Hizdahr never got married, so maybe the possibility is still out there.

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    43. Book readers, why are you going mental? The answer to Dorne is so simple. You read it in the books.

      It’s Doran’s speech. It was a huge moment in the books and will be huge in the show (though maybe the mediocrity of Dorne will take away from its impact). They’ll make a connection to Dany. How exactly that will work with Trystane still set to marry Myrcella, I have no idea but it’s definitely this. Dorne and Dany will band forces against Euron in Oldtown in season 6 and the Sand Snakes will be part of it.

      Jessica here is doing something actors do rather often: exaggerating.

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    44. I really want to see how Davos is going to react when he finds out Stannis burned her alive. I bet he goes Kill Bill on Stannis.

      But I think we will have to wait until season 6 to see his reaction when he finds out.

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    45. Are we ever going to get the Fire & Blood speech?!? That’s probably one of the only good scenes from Dorne in the books and it hasn’t appeared yet? I thought for sure that was going to happen last week and it would be the scene right before Daznak’s but????

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    46. Darren,

      I think one Sand Snake goes to the Faith- my guess is still Tyene, Trystane is already in the small council, then Obara stays in Dorne to eventually lead the army, and Nymeria stays as well.

      I think Sarella was by far the most interesting Sand Snake in the book so I still have hopes they’ll cast her. Yes, she hasn’t appeared in the first batch of casting calls, but we already have another isolated major role (the likely child of the forest) so it’s not impossible that more will turn up. Especially given that, for all the seeming emphasis on Oldtown, we haven’t gotten a single Oldtown casting. Yes, Sam will probably spend half the season traveling and stopping to leave Gilly at Horn Hill, but there should be around 4 or 5 episodes in Oldtown at least and that requires more characters than just Sam and Jaqen.

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    47. jentario,

      What does casting a separate Sarella bring to the table that one the currently introduced Sand Snakes cannot? “Use the characters we’ve got” seems to be the motto of GoT lately when it comes to figuring out how to condense and cut.

      Arthur,

      Potential spoiler?

      In a recent Liam Cunningham interview he said that he doesn’t find out about Shireen’s fate until the final episode. I’m not sure if the question and phrasing were just bad or if he will actually find out in 510.

        Quote  Reply

    48. I didn’t read all the comments, but did someone already suggest that

      Tyene’s

      death was strongly foreshadowed last episode?

      I thought it was weird that they included such a long scene of them playing pattycake in an episode 9, until I realized that it was probably foreshadowing for a scene where Tyene is ‘a little slow’ in a fight – which would be a game-changer on its own. I’m guessing she goes down by Hotah, and maybe all that JH meant by ‘extreme’ is that we’re not used to seeing women die the way men often die on this show, for example if she is beheaded or something violent like that…But yes, Bronn and Myrcella are definitely at serious risk.

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    49. And the Dorne speculation begins…

      Hmmm.. not really any spoilers left to spoil, just gut speculation

      The Sandsnake that won the Emmy goes to Oldtown. The one with the whip is sent to Kings Landing. Ellaria goes totally mental with the help of the one that’s her actual daughter, try to kill Myrcella. Both get killed, along with Bronn.

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    50. Darren,
      Yes, I too am holding out hope for Wedding # 3 this season. I hope it wasn’t just a mistake on Hibberd’s part, thinking that Daenerys had married Hizzy already. I think Doran is too seasoned to just allow the young Trystane to go to that Lannister stronghold, KL, without being married to Myrcella. That’s why he’s playing nice-nice with Jaime; and Jaime, poor soul, is getting played.

        Quote  Reply

    51. jentario,
      Sarella is my favorite sand snake as well, but the show may go with the known character that was introduced in Season 5 in order to simplify things. The question is, would it be Eneyt, Airemyn or Arabo the Sphinx if they get sent there? lol

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    52. I doubt it’s going to be as shocking as they hope it will be. Dorne has been a big fat dud and I imagine most Unsullied don’t care at all what happens to the Sand Snakes.

        Quote  Reply

    53. jentario:
      Book readers, why are you going mental? The answer to Dorne is so simple. You read it in the books.

      Completely agree. It’s fun to see some people speculating some really wild and crazy things (Jaime dying? WTF?). The answer is so much simple and logic, and is straight from the books:

      Doran’s revelation of the alliance between Dany and Dorne

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    54. trarecar,

      That’s precisely why I think it doesn’t involve the death of a SS. Viwers simply don’t care about them for it to be shocking.

      I’m really, really looking forward to next ep. And please, give Nymeria some lines. She was a favourite of mine in the books (among the non-main characters) and she has been rather useless on the show. Still, I think jessica has done a wonderful job with what she was given so far.

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    55. jentario,

      I didn’t really feel like any of the Dorne stuff in the books was huge. Even the ‘huge’ stuff was pretty much a bust so far. I mostly remembered the Sand Snakes as those idiots who got locked up and sat around in prison for a while. I think the most memorable part for me was the disastrous plot that backfired and involved a bunch of people I had little interest in or any reason to care for. Hopefully if Doran has a plan on the show it’s a good one and doesn’t end stupidly.

      Also from what Jessica Henwick says, it sounds as if it’s going to be something that people might not be happy about.

        Quote  Reply

    56. Maybe Ellaria sends the Snakes on a mission to kill Bronn and Jaime which fails and results in Myrcella and maybe even Trystane dying (since they’re all Romeo and Juliet-tastic and all) and only too late to stop this mission does Doran tell her his plans and the Targ pact.

      This would bring it back around to where we are in the books.

      Before the season I feared Jaime would die, but I don’t think it will happen yet now.

        Quote  Reply

    57. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Except Jaime and Bronn would be dead…and Ramsey alive…..although is Ramsey to good of a villain to kill yet? I think I want to see Ramsey die but Roose survive withh either still some power or a hostage …for whom I don’t know the leeches maybe they care….

        Quote  Reply

    58. As for Trystane and Myrcella having their wedding here. That’s still possible right?

      Prior to the season, we were notified of 3 weddings. So far, we’ve had:
      – Tommen and Marge
      – Ramsay and Sansa
      – ?

      We didn’t actually see Dany and Hizzy (the oft speculated 3rd marriage) get married at all. So we’re due a 3rd marriage!

        Quote  Reply

    59. For all the yammering about how the Dorne storyline is weak in the show, let us not forget that it is also stupid in the books.

      Arianne’s plan is ridiculous. Doran’s plan is to make a marriage pact and then not tell anyone about it?

      Prediction:
      * The transporter gets Trystane, Myrcella and Jaime back to KL. Bronn stays behind because he likes the Dornish women and Doran offers him a job.

      * Bella and Edw… I mean Trystane and Myrcella, get married.

      * No one realizes that Tyene has snuck aboard the ship. She kills Tommen with her Murder Death Tits + Poison.

      * We realize Varys and Doran have been working together all along.

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    60. RandomSand:
      And please, give Nymeria some lines. She was a favourite of mine in the books (among the non-main characters) and she has been rather useless on the show. Still, I think jessica has done a wonderful job with what she was given so far.

      Yeah, I’ve seen Jessica show up in Thronecast and she seemed so nice and so committed to the role that I feel sorry for her. Especially since it’s immediately obvious that a bullwhip is a TERRIBLE battle weapon and yet she had to spend so long practising for such a joke! It’s not the actresses’ fault that the Sand Snakes haven’t been a good addition to the show.

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    61. John M W:
      And, for the love of god(s), can we talk about the soundtrack or what?!

      I’m so in love with Hardhome Parts 1&2. I just luv what Ramin did with that sequence. So unbelievably creepy and intense.

      I haven’t yet listened to the tracks from the finale (I don’t want to be musically spoiled), so I’ll rely on your guys’ response for those. But the rest of the CD is just completely magnificent!

      Yeah, set the mood brilliantly, thing with that scene and the score is that we are immersed (as much as we can with all the inconsistencies and plotholes) in a Medieval drama and then out of nowhere the entire show becomes a horror flick with a great horror score to boot

      All I can think of when listening to Hardhome pt 1 is “Shut the Gate!” like a boss

        Quote  Reply

    62. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

      He put “SPOILER!” Time for you to take responsibility for your own life and not expect people to protect you all the time. I’m about done with whiny GOT spoiler fans. Linda on Twitter yesterday convinced me none of you are worth saving.

        Quote  Reply

    63. I think the second-to-last scene of episode 10 is Dany and Drogon landing in Dorne. The first scene of the episode 10 preview is Dany looking down at the Doom of Valyria, right? And the episode description says that Dany finds herself amongst strangers. I think Drogon flies her to Valyria, and she finds long lost Targaryens there who inform her about her allies in Dorne. Meanwhile, there’s a scene where Doran spills the beans about the alliance to his family members. The last 3 scenes of the episode are: (3) Winter comes for Pycelle and Kevan. (2) Dany lands in Dorne. (1) FTW.

        Quote  Reply

    64. John M W:
      I knew it. I’m surprised people thought Dorne was all wrapped up in Ep. 9. It seemed obvious to me that something big was still to come.

      Yeah, Shireen isn’t the end of the children issues, perhaps one of the Sand Snakes does a Darkstar?

      I fully expect both Tommen and Myrcella to die horribly next season and in WoW, Shireen was the first but she won’t be the last

        Quote  Reply

    65. Yea the dude put spoilers in huge print…ur kind of a clown if you click on it and don’t wish to be spoiled, sounds kind of hodorish things to do…except he’s fucking awesome…and you, well so far your just kind of annoying….

        Quote  Reply

    66. Sundancer: Given that there’s no Arianne for Doran to marry off to a Targaryen

      Well, in the book

      Aegon is holding out for Daeny; yes, Hizdhar is still alive in the books, but I’m betting that is a temporary condition.

      With luck, Arianne will just fall into quicksand and go away!

      RandomSand: And please, give Nymeria some lines. She was a favourite of mine in the books (among the non-main characters) and she has been rather useless on the show.

      Which one was she in the book? The Moe-analogue, the Larry-analogue or the Curly-analogue?

        Quote  Reply

    67. Pigeon,

      I didn’t click on it. I didn’t click on any of the spoiler links last week either. But people start discussing them openly in the comments. Several people got spoiled against their will on the last episode.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Seriously just quit complaining

      he mentions Epiosde 10 spoilers and link the pictures inside the spoiler tag …what else one must do ..

      and dont act like this some big spoiler anyway ..its been so obvious even before the season started ..so suck it up
      Pigeon,

      thank you where did you find this …can we have other storylines too

      i particularly liked the shot we see in the promo of Jorah tyrion and Darrio sitting on the steps of throne room

        Quote  Reply

    69. Pigeon,

      We’ll probably get that picture when the other pictures comes out friday for the episode. As long as we don’t get what happened last sunday afternoon this week, I won’t get mad! That was really frustrating altough when I think about it, it had me prepared and helped me understand why that horrible shireen scene had to happen.

        Quote  Reply

    70. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

      It’s ok, I thought maybe for some reason it brought up the photos in the post instead of just the links. I wouldn’t think people would discuss it without spoiler code, that’s why I made sure to put it in!

        Quote  Reply

    71. dragonbringer,

      I love the 3 hapless mismatched amigos! 🙂

      I found them accidentally when daring to look at the

      IMDB message boards (yikes) – they were in with a gallery of other episode 9 shots and someone pointed out they weren’t in episode 9, so….I suppose they could be outtakes but I do hope they are Ep10!

        Quote  Reply

    72. Oberyn’s left eye: also this will cause a shit storm in KL when they find out Jamie has been killed in Dorne

      There is no one left in King’s Landing to give a shit about Jaime besides Cersei and she has a lot on her plate right now.

      No way are Jaime & Co. reaching King’s Landing this season because he would interrupt Cersei’s struggles. They will save that delicious reunion for S6E1. Tommen ain’t going anywhere. We’ll see him welcome the Queen home in the next episode. Jaime won’t die. He just leveled up using his golden hand as a sheath. Bronn had a lot of lines this season. He got a song & a bride. Normally, I would say he dead. Like so dead. But I can’t…not yet.

        Quote  Reply

    73. Pigeon,

      The thing is, the spoiler code is intended for book material. Not show leaks. Whatever is in the links you posted doesn’t sound like any huge spoiler and I’m sorry I went straight to angry asshole, but I’m still pissed over what happened last week. So many people without any consideration for others spoiled the entire episode.

        Quote  Reply

    74. dragonbringer,

      Hey… The spoiler tags mean jack-shit when it comes to spoiling EPISODES! The spoiler tags, are for people who’ve READ THE BOOKS- so they can discuss the books without spoiling unsullied…
      That’s fucking all they are for. Either the people who keep doing this shit either don’t know, or don’t care… Regardless, all lot of us, are completely out of patience for this bullshit.

      EDIT: WeirwoodTreeHugger beat me to it. I’m not apologizing for losing my shit- because this has been discussed so many times it’s ridiculous, it keeps happening.

        Quote  Reply

    75. dragonbringer: i particularly liked the shot we see in the promo of Jorah tyrion and Darrio sitting on the steps of throne room

      Missandei must have run straight into the arms of Grey Worm.

        Quote  Reply

    76. i posted this on the recap thread but i will post it here also

      A lot of people picked up on the Stannis and dany scenes how one is willing to sacrifice the child and other is not

      what is more interesting is that while stannis does it thinking about he must fulfill destiny ..

      dany on the other hand is fulfilling the destiny without her knowledge by choosing to save her son

      she has now made Tyrion believe in her and thinking she must be the chosen one ..

      it all fits the story now …Dany is slayer of the lies indeed

        Quote  Reply

    77. SebLeb,

      I’m eternally stuck between wanting to be surprised, and wanting to steel myself for what’s to come. Even more so when it’s a character I particularly care about (Sandor, Arya, Jorah, Oberyn, etc). This show has the strange honour of being able to mess with me emotionally, which is usually reserved for movies like Pan’s Labyrinth. LOL. While I love the excitement of being newly Unsullied with the departure from the base material, I still am one of those who occasionally needs to peek at the last page of a novel to see if ‘X’ is still there….

        Quote  Reply

    78. Rygritte,

      “After you.”
      “Oh, I couldn’t possibly, you go ahead.”
      “Really, it’s only right that you take the honour of…”
      *awkward silence*
      “So….how about that fight in the pit, though!”

        Quote  Reply

    79. Jaime’sHand1220,

      RAmsey has to go. Sooner than later. Nothing against Iwhan Rheon, who plays what’s given to him well enough (he must. I hate the guy). But he’s turning into a monotonous, cartoon super villain now (actually, around the time of the Yara scene in S4) and the longer he sticks around, the more I agree with the critics who think he’s become “a drug Benioff and Weiss are addicted to”.

        Quote  Reply

    80. Pigeon,

      It’s cool you pointed out the similar emotional tone of episode 9 and Pan’s Labyrinth. Now that I thought about it, it’s extremely similar.

        Quote  Reply

    81. Rygritte,

      i still think that Harpies next move will be killing the dragons and they fail and release the dragons ..and they go to dany as well

      either that or they stay chained …i dont believe that either jorah tyrion or darrio will set them free and even if one of them set them free i dont see anyone getting torched …dragons know their mother’s people

      i really dont think we will end an episode without seeing dragons …but that said last season we didnt have Drogon and thgis season we may not have Rhaegal and Viserian ..

        Quote  Reply

    82. Keith:
      Ace of Mace,

      Horse Riders……:) That is all Im sayin…..lol

      Could the strangers be knights of Westeros? Is she going to fly all the way to Kings Landing? I thought knew what the ep 10 synopsis means but now I’m so excited.

        Quote  Reply

    83. Pigeon,

      I loved Pan’s Labyrinth also. certainly most GoT fans would absolutely love that movie even if it seems really different there is a lot of comparison to be made.

      To get back to the Stannis decision, I’ve rewatch a scene from season 1 when Aemon explain to Jon Snow that every man has a moment when he must choose between love and duty and last episode was Stannis moment and he chose duty. 1 out of 10 000 men would have choose duty like Aemon mention in that scene, but maybe that should be the man who rules the 7 kingdom. I don’t know, I think maybe it showed that Stannis is the only one who’s willing to make these hard choices (maybe along with Jon who chose the night’s watch over his family and later over Ygritte). Robb chose love and died. I’m not saying I agree with Stan’s decision, I certainly wouldn’t have done that but maybe it shows how much he cares about the realm over his own emotions. All that said I think he might die in the next episode lol!

        Quote  Reply

    84. I wonder how many takes it took for Maisie and Tom to do their HoB&W scene in ep9?

      Arya: “The Thin Man wasn’t hungry today.”
      Jaqen: “Perhaps that is why a man is thin.”

      That exchange had me rolling, even during my 3rd viewing. I mean, how could a man keep a straight face when saying that? Who knew Jaqen/Kindly Man had such a sublime sense of humor? 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    85. Rygritte: Missandei must have run straight into the arms of Grey Worm.

      If that’s the case I feel sorry for Tyrion, he just saved her life he deserves a little something

        Quote  Reply

    86. Rygritte,

      Yeah..I enjoy how this show finds humor at odd moments. Bronn’s lines were funny as well.

      Even Doran got in on the action with “Perhaps some soup instead?”

      (Jaqen absolutely knew Arya was lying!)

        Quote  Reply

    87. The Free Folk,

      It is one of those movies that is like a kick in the gut, and makes me stare at the screen for awhile after it’s done. It’s my favourite movie, but psychologically I find it difficult to watch. Guillermo del Toro is fantastic, I actually just watched Mama with Nicolaj Coster-Waldau the other night, and am pretty excited for Crimson Peak .

      Game of Thrones has had that effect on me several times (I remember someone once wrote something like: “Game of Thrones: The end credits are on a plain black background so that you can see your own horrified face in the reflection.” LOL.)

        Quote  Reply

    88. Weirwood Tree Hugger and The Free Folk are right, of course. Leaked material from unaired episodes has no place in these discussions. Sue has literally had to reiterate this dozens of times this season, and people still pretend to not understand.

        Quote  Reply

    89. WorfWWorfington:
      WeirwoodTreeHugger,

      He put “SPOILER!” Time for you to take responsibility for your own life and not expect people to protect you all the time. I’m about done with whiny GOT spoiler fans. Linda on Twitter yesterday convinced me none of you are worth saving.

      Worf, you’re a good Klingon and a worthy warrior, but I don’t think anyone here needs “saving.”

        Quote  Reply

    90. The Free Folk,

      I know! The house sounds amazing and the few photos I’ve seen have me pumped.

      Although her storyline maybe hasn’t been the forerunner this season, the scene where Arya is standing by the water, about to drop Needle, is probably still the most heartbreaking scene for me, like the end of PL.

      “Needle was Robb and Bran and Rickon, her mother and her father, even Sansa. Needle was Winterfell’s grey walls, and the laughter of its people. Needle was the summer snows, Old Nan’s stories, the heart tree with its red leaves and scary face, the warm earthy smell of the glass gardens, the sound of the north wind rattling the shutters of her room. Needle was Jon Snow’s smile. He used to mess my hair and call me “little sister,” she remembered, and suddenly there were tears in her eyes.”

        Quote  Reply

    91. Why nobody is talking about Season 5 soundtrack? It’s absolutely amazing. Ramin Djawadi is a genius! I’ve heard some of the tracks all day. “House of Black and White”, “Atonement”, “Blood of The Dragon”, “High Sparrow” and “Son of The Harpy” are my favorite ones. A special mention to “Throne for Game”, a ominous, sad and beautiful track that very likely will be played during

      For The Watch

      . Imagine THAT scene, accompanied by that track, it’s enough to almost move me to tears.

        Quote  Reply

    92. Was watching the Pit sequence again. I love the little homage to Moria, FOTR, – with a twist – in the staging of Drogon’s entrance. Enemies encircle the fellowship, all seems lost and then off camera you hear but do not see sounds of a fearsome creature. Then Drogon bursts in to view with a blast of flame and of course unlike the Balrog he’s on the right side..

        Quote  Reply

    93. Chris:
      Ser Matt the Sullen,

      or they’re used for pickup shots where the principal actor’s face wouldn’t appear (like if one person is speaking to another and you only see the back of the head).

      LOL, no. If you only see his back of the head than you sure saw/will see his face in that scene. So it won’t make any sense and also the acting can’t be puzzled like that. They always prefer to go for continuity.

        Quote  Reply

    94. I really don’t think Jaime is going anywhere (except back to King’s Landing), especially since he’s probably

      the valonqar.

      I also think it’s just as likely that Brienne will drive Oathkeeper through LSH’s back as it is for Jaime to be hanged.

      In all likelihood, Bronn will bite the dust and Myrcella will get a new scar. But I guess we’ll see on Sunday night.

        Quote  Reply

    95. I hope Jessica will a have a big part in what’s coming next week.They didn’t give her anything to do all season,this could be it.

      If something will be attempted against Myrcella I believe Ellaria is dead next week.Doran even said a line that can forshadow it.Tyene and Bron are candidates to bite it too if there will be a fight.

        Quote  Reply

    96. TheTouchOfFrost: Perhaps one twist would be the Sand Snakes kill Ellaria?

      LOL. You do realize how retarded you sound? Sometimes I wonder why GOT fan are so retarded. Got fans seem to always come up with the most retarded and nonsensical theories. All the time when I read GOT or asoif fans it makes me feel such a superior human being.

        Quote  Reply

    97. I’m not entirely sure Tyene will be involved in this. It would seem incredibly stupid to save Bronn’s life only to have to fight him again later trying to kill Myrcella. Doubly so if the plan was to try again after getting out of jail anyway.

      …unless of course Bronn is in on it now. I hope not.

        Quote  Reply

    98. robin: LOL. You do realize how retarded you sound? Sometimes I wonder why GOT fan are so retarded. Got fans seem to always come up with the most retarded and nonsensical theories. All the time when I read GOT or asoif fans it makes me feel such a superior human being.

      No need for all that. The person was just making their own theory just as anyone from any fandom does.

        Quote  Reply

    99. King Podrick: No need for all that. The person was just making their own theory just as anyone from any fandom does.

      Best to ignore them. I understand the compulsion to defend the wrongfully attacked, but these people are getting off on our slightest negative reactions to their nonsense.

        Quote  Reply

    100. King Podrick,

      I think “robin” is just a particularly awful brand of troll, who used language offensive to many people, who either have, or care about people with disabilities.

        Quote  Reply

    101. “it’s like no season finale they’ve had before.”
      – many storylines end on cliffhanger, there is a little chance they could do some sort of closure to most storylines

      “What happens with the Sand Snakes is…extreme. Very extreme”
      – i see two options:
      1. Doran and his speech – seems logical from the book point of view, but barely anything from showDorne was in the books. Also Jessica sound like SS will do something controversial. I read in the Siddig´s interview that they want to poison him, that could be it. He will be forced to reveal his plan under the death threat. Also to do Dornish storyline without Doran and SS talking to each other would be absurd(but again that would fit to what they did with Dorne so far)

      2. Some sort of Darkstar plot- D+D seems to love it since they genderswitched him and cloned him four times. That would fit all foreshadowing of Myrcella, Bronn, Jaime deaths. Atleast one of them would die, probably Arys Bronnstar killed by Areo´s Checkov axe.

        Quote  Reply

    102. So who is guaranteed to die in the finale..?

      Kevan
      Pycelle
      Jon Snow

      And who else possibly? There’s gotta be a Dorne casualty…
      I’d say probably Bronn.

        Quote  Reply

    103. Darren,

      I just can’t see how any of the current Sand Snakes could act like men. I also don’t think Oldtown is part of Doran’s plan (why would it be?), and that it’s just a personnal ambition for Sarella. And, aside from her being an interesting character, she’s also another opportunity to introduce a POC female character (and the show only has Missandei at the moment).

      Also, the fact that all 8 Sand Snakes exist in show canon for some reason implies to me that we might eventually see more of them. Because they could have easily just said he had three daughters and be done with it.

        Quote  Reply

    104. Robb Snow,

      My thoughts are that the sand snakes try to kill Myrcella as revenge for the slight against their mother. During the fight Tyene ends up killing Nymeria in defense of Bronn.
      Bronn then brings Tyene back to Kings Landing with him which will enable Tyene to get close to Tommen to poison him.

        Quote  Reply

    105. jentario,

      It’s clearly this. I predict not a single character in that storyline will die. Instead Doran will give a speech. Quite a revealing one. One might even call it extreme.

        Quote  Reply

    106. Hi guys. My theory, like some people have already stated, is that there would be not a single death in Dorne in the finale. Instead I think there would be a big revelation that Tristan is in fact the rightful king of Westeros.

        Quote  Reply

    107. New theory:

      After it becomes clear Shireen’s sacrifice was for nothing, Stannis suicides. And maybe kills Mel along the way?

      Then the battle can serve as a diversion for Sansa and Theon, who fall into the hands of BriPod. And Littlefinger cleans up the Boltons in season 6.

        Quote  Reply

    108. dfgdf,

      No he’s right, that’s generally how filming works. They will set up all the cameras and lighting and film all the dialogue and reaction shots from one point of view, and then shuffle everything around and shoot the rest of the dialogue from the other perspective.

      So in this regard, it DOES make sense to have a body double standing in, especially if they’re in the sun for hours and hours. That being said, they are fucking actors getting paid boat loads of cash, the least they can do is wait around with dignity.

        Quote  Reply

    109. Josla:
      Hi guys. My theory, like some people have already stated, is that there would be not a single death in Dorne in the finale. Instead I think there would be a big revelation that Tristan is in fact the rightful king of Westeros.

      That just doesn’t fit the “extreme” description. Even if she is exaggerating (which I agree is likely), the word “extreme” suggests something graphic / action-based rather than political machinations. I think both Tommen and Myrcella will perish this episode, thus neatly tying up the prophecy from episode 1.

        Quote  Reply

    110. I noticed all three sand snakes repeated there lines nym
      ” which do y like
      More humiliation or pain , humiliation or pain ” obara ” I am obara sand , daughter of Oberyn martell ” and tyene “I am the most beautiful girl in the world ” the show runners are stupefying a complex story and I hate it

        Quote  Reply

    111. jentario: After it becomes clear Shireen’s sacrifice was for nothing, Stannis suicides. And maybe kills Mel along the way?

      We already know from the preview that it wasn’t “for nothing” as the weather relents.

      And Stannis would never commit suicide. He might descend into madness though. People draw parallels between Stannis and Macbeth which I totally get from the ambition perspective, but I think there’s a bit of Lear in him as well.

        Quote  Reply

    112. In
      My Opionion , this was by far the worst Ep 9 of all five seasons . Yeh it was intensely emotionally gripping but compared to black water reins , baelor and watchers it ranks at the bottom

        Quote  Reply

    113. Ross,

      I think
      The snow will stop and he’ll
      Easily win
      Deep wood motte cause the iron born are all sick and starving . I feel like Sansa may kill
      Ramsey but I can’t imagine that battle and storylines bein wrapped up in another ten minutes of tv time . Where is
      Yara greyjoy ?

        Quote  Reply

    114. The finale cannot come soon enough! I’m thinking Doran will give his famous speech, and maybe Trystane will be revealed as….

      I want Sansa to corkscrew Ramsay’s eye out, but have a sneaking suspicion he’ll make it Season 6.

      One thing I want for S6 is for LF to kick it at the hands of Sansa. I want him to get Winterfell, then Sansa swoop in and rain on his parade, give a scathing speech that “your full of shit, and this place belongs to my brothers!” BAM!

      Speaking of Sansa, if she does indeed escape Winterfell (I fear for her life tbh), where does she go from there? Back to the Vale?

        Quote  Reply

    115. Ross,

      Stannis didn’t sacrifice Shireen for good weather, he sacrificed her to ensure he wins the war. Look at the scene with the leaches in season 3.

        Quote  Reply

    116. I swear to god if Sand Snakes kill

      Jaime

      , I’ll…build a time machine and go back in time and kick baby Jesus!

      That would be so anti-climatic to have that happen to him that way.

        Quote  Reply

    117. As a whole besides Hardhome I’m disappointed in this season . Season 3-4 we’re A lot better than 5 so far I got it 4-3-1-5-2

        Quote  Reply

    118. Grand maester giz,

      First of all, use spoiler tags. Secondly, if Yara really is in this episode- which seems to be the case, according to her agency- my guess is that her scene will be setup for season 6. We know they’re casting Euron, so killing off Balon makes a lot of sense.

        Quote  Reply

    119. This finale should be great . But the only episodes I’d call great all season we’re 5-5 and. 5-8 , a lot were ok 5-6 sucks .at this point I’m disappointed

        Quote  Reply

    120. Grand maester giz,

      503, 505, 507, and 508 were all uninanimously amazing episides. I’d argue that 509 is also. And then there’s 502 which was great and 506 which was controversial but also great IMO. 501 was literally the worst this season had to offer, and it wasn’t half bad.

      If the finale manages to wrap up Winterfell satisfyingly (which I’m not sure they can at this point), this’ll easily be my favorite season. Dorne is its only weak storyline.

        Quote  Reply

    121. i dont think Stannis will die

      i am starting to believe in him becoming Nights king …he is just now betrayed his family and still has to betray his army and everything

      and when he realizes all for nothing he will turn

        Quote  Reply

    122. Perhaps,
      1. Tommen dies,
      2. Myrcella ascends, and
      3. Her first act as queen is to make the Sand Snakes her queensguard.

      #worstbodyguardsever

      Nymeria: Let me not use my whip as a whip but as a wrap to wind around your body ten times so that you can hack off 70% of my whip with your sword. Or, better yet, so that you can grab the whip with your non-sword hand, pull me to you as I try to keep my whip, and hack weaponless-me to pieces.

        Quote  Reply

    123. jentario,

      Ur being real generous with the word great – 5-08 5-05 great – 5-07 5-03 5-02 – good than 5-04 and 5-09 and 5-01 was ok 5-06 was garbage – not sir that Sansa rape but for that horrible fight in dorne the timing of the sand snakes . In my opionon 5-06 was the worst episode since night lands in season 2

        Quote  Reply

    124. jentario:
      Ross,

      Stannis didn’t sacrifice Shireen for good weather, he sacrificed her to ensure he wins the war. Look at the scene with the leaches in season 3.

      Well, being able to move forward is one part of winning the overall war of course, but it his predicament (trapped unable to march forward, everyone would die) was made very clear as was the solution (burning Shireen). It’s not exactly clear just what he gets in return for his sacrifice (just being able to march? Being able to march and win the battle of Winterfell? Those PLUS win the overall war?) but in the first instance, they have done it to be able to march forward, and Mel’s lines in the preview confirm this.

        Quote  Reply

    125. jentario,

      yeah i know but grrm has said yesterday

      “As for the Night’s King (the form I prefer), in the books he is a legendary figure, akin to Lann the Clever and Brandon the Builder, and no more likely to have survived to the present day than they have.”

      so he may become part of their council or he may become the head who knows just speculating but i dont think he will die this soon because he must realize what he had done …By the looks he gave after the death of shireen it looks like he is already Lost … poor stannis

        Quote  Reply

    126. jentario,

      Ur favorite season ? What we’re u sleeping threw 3-4 Rewatch 3-4 – and 1 is a classic . What do you enjoy , the way the show is stupfiying the story ? You must love the sand snakes repeating them selves I am obara sand obara sand humiliation or pain humiliation or pain , the most beuatiful girl in the world , most beautiful girl in the world . Look last episode was very emotionally gripping but outside the shireen burn and dazniks pit ( I thought that was a great scene ) the pit announcer deserves a ten – every episode 9 of every season was much better . Season 4 was far better than season 5. Your just a fan boy who won’t admit the obvious

        Quote  Reply

    127. Shaz,

      Why would Sansa go back to the vale? The most logical place for her to go is the wall where her brother is. Surely Ramsay didn’t namedrop Jon for nothing.

        Quote  Reply

    128. Speaking if theory’s does anyone else think that red priestess was staring at Tyrion because he has the blood of the dragon . I’m really convinced threw my readings and watching of the story that Jon khaleesi and Tyrion all have targarion blood there’s a lot of proof to it and I think the Jon ones so easy to see that people overlook Tyrion possibly being a targ – the show validates my argument every chance it gets

        Quote  Reply

    129. Squirrel,

      That’s right as far as I know noone ever talked to Sansa or in front of Sansa about the white walkers , so she should have no reason to fear the wall plus she should still think benjen stark is alive

        Quote  Reply

    130. Grand maester giz,

      That’s a big theory, but Tyrion is Tywin’s, through and through. There is no doubt in my mind that he’s a Lannister, not a Targaryen. He definitely has a role to play, however, and I’m sure that was part of the stare.

        Quote  Reply

    131. Grand maester giz,

      It’s becoming my favourite season so far as well, the finale can be the strongest one yet if done right. It’s felt tighter, and in a way they’re putting the pieces in place for the final act, sometimes it’s suffered as a result, but it’s also been the season where the fear of the unknown has made it a more thrilling ride.

      If that makes me a glorified fan boy than so be it.

        Quote  Reply

    132. So far my rank would be 4-3-1-5-2 with season 4 being a ten out of ten Season 3 9.5 season 1 9.4 season 5 7.5 season 2 7.3 the one thing that season 5-2 have in common is they may have the 2 best episodes in it out of all seasons blackwater and Hardhome – than again they have the two worst also nights lands and unbowed unbent unbroken

        Quote  Reply

    133. Shaz,

      I dunno how anyone can put season 5 over season 4 or 3 . Or 1 . 1 is an instant classic . Now don’t get me wrong I also can see this finale maybe bein the best of all 5 seasons but no matter how good it is that’s not enough for me to put it ahead of season 1-3-4 .

        Quote  Reply

    134. jentario,

      Really?! This season’s writing on the whole (there are good individual scenes) is just poorer than past seasons. It just all feels so rushed with no time for any levity or lighter moments. And yes, I am including season 2 as better screenwriting.

        Quote  Reply

    135. Grand maester giz: than again they have the two worst also nights lands and unbowed unbent unbroken

      I’ve never understood what it supposed to be so bad with the Night Lands. It’s a really good episode – the Theon going back home stuff is good, Yoren and Arya stuff is good, we meeting Sallador Saan, there’s Tyrion’s dinner with Janos Slynt. What’s wrong with it?

      I still love the linearity of storytelling and building sense of dread in season 1. It’s hard to beat in my opinion, but season 4 probably does top it. I’d go 4-1-3-5-2, although I think 2 has a lot of excellent moments.

        Quote  Reply

    136. Grand maester giz,

      Last years finale was awesome , I don’t see for the watch making it better than that . Besides for the watch , and arya killing meryn with the face of the girl she lied to . What’s gonna make it better ? And still no brotherhood no blackfish no gendry no edmure no iron born . I would have rather watched edmure in a cell sleeping than watch the sand snakes repeating themselves every chance they get .

        Quote  Reply

    137. Ross,

      I’m
      Not saying 5-2 is bad I’m just saying it ain’t like 4-3-1 I’d still give 5 a 7.5 and 2 a 7.1 . Don’t get me wrong the worst season of thrones is still better than most of what we get on t v I just am a bit disappointed in the season as a whole

        Quote  Reply

    138. An article about the last two episodes says that Sansa and Ramsay’s relationship “takes a new turn.” Guesses?

      The article also says that “Twitter will explode because every character could suffer a horrible fate as the series shifts into perilous double-jeopardy overdrive with every storyline rocked by a major shakeup.”

        Quote  Reply

    139. Grand maester giz,

      Use spoiler tags

      This episode will have all of these events:
      1. Arya killing Trant
      2. For the Watch
      3. Sansa and Theon’s escape or a show alternative
      4. Stannis vs Ramsay (most of it off screen, though)
      5. Brienne with either Sansa, Stannis or Ramsay
      6. Probably Doran’s speech in Dorne
      7. Dany hallucinations (hopefully), hunting with Drogon (hopefully) and the Dothraki (definitely)
      8. The Walk of Shame
      9. The Varys massacare in King’s Landing and Winter arriving is also extremely likely

      It will be huge.

        Quote  Reply

    140. Grand maester giz,

      I could say the same.
      In the end, we are different people with different tastes and different opinions. Which shouldn’t be a problem.

      I have an Unsullied friend who equally loves season 5 btw.

        Quote  Reply

    141. Cersei’s Brain,

      I can’t blame yeh for feeling that way ,season 5 it’s like they wanna make the show easier to follow for
      New veiwers . It bothers me to — I agree with yeh , dunno how these other fanatics can’t see that the show is litterly making a long intricate story with hundreds of plots and side plots and diffrent peoples ambitions to I am obara sand daughter of Oberyn martell ? This episode doran goes your mother to four neices I love very much but she had to announce who she was to areo hotah – he’s her fathers kingsguard and advisor – how the hell would he not remember obara sand – I hope this week she says I am obara sand again . Or someone thing else is repeated again . How many times are they gonna repeat the same lines ?? They always complain if we could do 13 episodes we could fit everything ? Than why in the seven hells are you making these new charectors repeat them selves every chance they get . Jesus learnin them lines must have been tuff ???

        Quote  Reply

    142. Grand maester giz,

      Why do so many people hate Night Lands? I rewatched it recently and paid extra attention precisely because it’s usually cited as one of GoT’s very worst, and I came (again) to the conclusion that it’s a very good episode. King’s Landing was pure gold with one of the best scenes in all 5 seasons (Tyrion and Janos) while Theon’s homecoming was brilliant. The other storylines had less screentime, but were far from bad.

      I think the (over)abundance of sex may have something to do with the episode’s reception. There were not one, not two, but three sex scenes, two of which were rather controversial in some circles. We had the hilariously over-the-top peeping tom scene in the brothel and then Stan the Man got to bang Mel over his beautiful painted table.

      For some reason that probably reflects badly on me and my tastes, I actually enjoy crazy sex scenes in the show, including LF’s hard-to-top ‘play with her ass’. Or maybe I’m just easy to please. To please, get it? Har har! Okay, I’ll shut up now.

        Quote  Reply

    143. jentario:
      Grand maester giz,

      I could say the same.
      In the end, we are different people with different tastes and different opinions. Which shouldn’t be a problem.

      I have an Unsullied friend who equally loves season 5 btw.

      Grand maester giz:
      jentario, I think season 3 was great – season 3 being your worst season makes me question ur opinion

      I like your discussion on favorite seasons.
      As a Non-book reader, I would rate the seasons as such:
      S4>S5>S1>S3>S2
      With season 2 being better than every single other show TV has ever had.

      I liked season 3 a lot, but the dragging of theon’s story brought it down for me

        Quote  Reply

    144. Season 1 is brilliant, but much of that was down to a simpler narrative, less characters, and less locations to explore. It’s probably been the easiest to adapt for D&D. Maybe the show misses that cohesiveness sometimes, but I for one like having so many different players, if I’m not as excited about one arc for an episode, I know I can rely on another. If the show was to go back to that sort of format, in my opinion it would be dull.

      However you rank the seasons, it’s still the best show on television by far. I can foresee a much bleaker world without GoT, it makes me sad thinking about it.

        Quote  Reply

    145. Meryn trant being a pedofile was another waste of screan time – did we not already have enough reason to want him
      Dead . Was him beating Sansa with his sword , not enough for us to have us hate him – 5-06 is worse than the night lands , it’s a lot worse

        Quote  Reply

    146. Ginevra,

      If he is a targ and the mad king raped his mother – that would give a lot of back story into why Tywin treats him
      That way – plus he says ur not my son to him like 4 times just on the tv show plus if it’s write than dany , Jon and tyrions mothers all
      Would
      Have died during childbirth . Coincidence …. I don’t think so

        Quote  Reply

    147. Mark,

      I think that Davos himself is the “pink letter,” at least as a plot device. Remember, Davos was the one who argued that the NW’s vows declared the Boltons to be an enemy. (Gun hung!)

        Quote  Reply

    148. Cersei’s Brain:
      jentario,

      Really?!This season’s writing on the whole (there are good individual scenes) is just poorer than past seasons. It just all feels so rushed with no time for any levity or lighter moments.And yes, I am including season 2 as better screenwriting.

      Honestly, I think the fundamental problem is that AFFC/ADWD had about 13 episode’s worth of material. It certainly wouldn’t span two seasons in a TV-viable manner, but 10 seems a bit too short. Thus, things seem rushed and incomplete sometimes, and one of the best storylines from the books – Manderly and the Northern Conspiracy – is missing outright.

      This had major butterfly-wing consequences in E9. Because there was no Manderly, Davos was hanging with Stannis. Obviously, the sacrifice couldn’t happen with him around, so Stannis had to send him on a quest, and the only real option was to the Wall. This, in turn, made it seem like Stannis could have also fled to the Wall (with its Ritz Hotel and fully-stocked Wall-Mart) rather than sacrificing Shireen. This in turn made it appear that Stannis was a dick, choosing to murder his daughter rather than run. Combined with the fact that the directors have pretty much dropped the Stannis-as-R’hllor’s-Champion concept and the further fact that unlike the books, Stannis’s faction still holds Dragonstone, most of the audience took Stannis’s actions as sacrificing his daughter for a chance at a fancy chair. Assuming he chooses the sacrifice in the books, it will be because he honestly (and very reasonably) believes he is the second coming of Azor Ahai and that he is humanity’s best hope against the zombie apocalypse…and in any case, he and his family would have nowhere to run anyway as Dragonstone is lost.

      If there is anything from a utilitarian perspective that can justify the cruel murder of a child, it is preventing a zombie apocalypse. In fact, I would say without hesitation that Stannis made the right choice in that matter. Unfortunately, D&D mucked it up, and made it appear that Stannis was making an entirely different choice, one where sacrificing Shireen was far more questionable.

        Quote  Reply

    149. Grand maester giz,

      I hate this fan belief that episode 9s are meant to be the event of the season. It happened by chance in the first three seasons, and that was it.

      Besides, Hardhome was better than all episode 9s except for Rains.

        Quote  Reply

    150. Wimsey:
      Mark,

      I think that Davos himself is the “pink letter,” at least as a plot device.Remember, Davos was the one who argued that the NW’s vows declared the Boltons to be an enemy.

      And to that point, isn’t the letter that Jon is reading in that image just the message from Stannis rather than anything else?

        Quote  Reply

    151. Yes he would have but what if he didn’t know for sure and maybe thought it . Otherwise Tywin wouldn’t have sentenced him to death . If he was his son for sure than he would have never sentenced him to death

        Quote  Reply

    152. Tara:
      Calling it now: Trystane is revealed as Young Griff!

      That would certainly make me happy. How much fun would it be for

      a secret Targ to pop out of nowhere, supersede Dany’s claim to the throne, and plant himself one sip of poison from it?

        Quote  Reply

    153. Remove everything that has no relevance to the story. If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it’s not going to be fired, it shouldn’t be hanging there.

      Sansa’s handheld auger must come into play in Episode 10, according to Chekhov.

      If I’m going to die, let it happen while there’s still some of me left.

      So this line from the preview would be a nice line to say to Theon after he admits to his missing bits. Perhaps Sansa’s trying to convince Theon to escape with her.

        Quote  Reply

    154. I like your discussion on favorite seasons.
      As a Non-book reader, I would rate the seasons as such:
      S4>S5>S1>S3>S2
      With season 2 being better than every single other show TV has ever had.

      I liked season 3 a lot, but the dragging of theon’s story brought it down for me

        Quote  Reply

    155. Grand maester giz,

      Doesn’t matter, my point remains. Hardhome was episode 9 material. Which means this season had two huge set-piece episodes. That has to make up for you thinking episode 9 wasn’t as good (though I honestly think both were two of the best episodes in the entire show).

        Quote  Reply

    156. Deesensfan,

      Personally, by season ranking is:

      S4 > S3 > S1 > S2

      I won’t add season five until it ends. If I had to add it now, I’d probably add alongside or behind season three.

        Quote  Reply

    157. What was so bad about last episode?We got Dany riding Drogon,a huge deal in the books.It was great on screen,CGI may not have been perfect but for a TV show it was fantastic.Just watch other shows and see the difference.What happened to Shireen was sad and really bad but that doesn’t make the episode bad.It was really well directed and the score was amazing.Soundtrack is great this year.Actors where good too.Bravos had funny scenes plus the set up for what’s coming next week.Dorne seemd to go to a conclusion but it’s just a facade.True colors next week.
      So I don’t see any problem,I rated this episode 10/10 without hesitation.

        Quote  Reply

    158. Everyone assumes Dany has

      flown to the Dothraki Sea

      – like in the books. Maybe

      she’s flown to Dorne instead and will be revealed in person at the end of Doran’s big speech

      . You want evidence? Well where else was Drogon off to when Jorah and Tyrion saw him flying over Valyria a few weeks back –

      from Meereen that’s almost half way to the Water Gardens!

      It was a dry run 😉

        Quote  Reply

    159. Deesensfan,

      Exactly. Episodes 4, 5 and 9 of season 3 were highlights but the rest of the season dragged really bad. The whole King’s Landing storyline must have sucked over two hours of screen time and next to nothing happened, then there was Theon (and while it all had to happen, it was tedious and hard to get through). The only well paced storylines were Jaime and Arya.

        Quote  Reply

    160. thremnir,

      Fun theory, at least as crackpot theories go, but unfortunately for you it has already been debunked by the next episode preview. Dany is seen at the edge of a cliff, overseeing an enormous vista that very much looks like the Dothraki Sea and/or the mountainous terrain surrounding Meereen. Certainly not Dorne or Valyria.

      Also: Just because we don’t have TWOW in our hands doesn’t mean D&D are now gonna make shit up completely. They have access to what is going to happen. Presumably, there will be some significance in the story to the fact that, at the end of ADWD, Dany meets those “happy campers.” D&D aren’t just going to ignore it.

        Quote  Reply

    161. thremnir,

      Dorne?You’re kidding right? When Dany finally arrives to Westeros.It will be a huge scene and done properly,not like this.Meereen must be resolved first.It’s gonna be Dothraki Sea.

        Quote  Reply

    162. Ser Gerold Dayne:
      What was so bad about last episode?

      The directors committing character assassination on Stannis? Even if he does sacrifice Shireen in the books (probable at this point, but not certain), E9 presented the choice he was making in an entirely incorrect manner. Most audience members seem to think he sacrificed Shireen for a chair, which would indeed be horrible, as well as nonsense because he would have no heir for it anyway. However, this was not the case. Stannis believes himself (with good reason) to be a prophesied hero that will drive back the White Walkers, and is in fact the only contender for the throne that is actually taking this threat seriously. Stannis did not sacrifice Shireen for his own ends, he sacrificed her because he believed it was necessary in order to avoid defeat in the only war that matters.

      Stannis needs at minimum to hold the North if he wants to defend the Wall. Simply retreating there with a starving, penniless army would do no good. He would need the backing and logistical support (and men) of the northern lords to have any hope.

      Btw, I liked the rest of the episode, just not that scene.

        Quote  Reply

    163. Luka Nieto,

      It would have been great if it was somewhere between Valyria and the Dothraki sea. Would have made the episode 5 scene with Drogon foreshadowing.

      And it would be a perfect place to talk about Fire and Blood with a Viserys hallucination.

      Pretty please?

        Quote  Reply

    164. Ginevra,

      Hey! Citing Chekhov is MY job!!!! 😀

      (I think that was the origin version, too: it was when he restated it regarding plays that the better known and catchier dictum that it caught on: but, then, people had been saying this since [at least] Shakespeare’s time!)

        Quote  Reply

    165. Chad Brick,

      I’m sorry but that’s absurd. Viewers are not that stupid.

      Granted, maybe the writers could’ve had Melisandre give the same speech she gave two weeks ago (yet again!), but honestly, I think people get it by now. Stannis alluded to it while talking to her daughter just before the sacrifice (fulfilling one’s destiny, however much one may hate it, which is very much in line with Stannis’ obsession with duty); and Melisandre made this point explicitly in The Gift, just two episodes before this horrific event, precisely while trying to convince Stannis to burn Shireen:

      There is only one way. You must become king before the Long Night begins. Only you can lead the living against the dead. All your life has led us to this moment. To this decision.

      They presented it beautifully, as far as I am concerned. Yes, there is a great deal of ambition in Stannis’ motivations, but it is a kind of messianic ambition, not particularly selfish (though certainly narcissistic —It takes narcissism to believe you are the Second Coming of Azor “Jesus Christ via Greek Tragedy” Ahai.) The choice Stannis sees in his mind, as presented in the episode, is this: either they all die, including Stannis, Selyse, Melisandre and of course Shireen herself, or only Shireen dies in a sacrifice, saving them all. That’s why the complaints that Stannis wouldn’t sacrifice his own heir are stupid; He didn’t really have a choice there. Shireen would die either way, either by the frost and hunger or the sacrifice.

        Quote  Reply

    166. Geralt of Rivia,

      My vote is Valryia and we find out that:

      a) Dragonfire cures Greyscale
      b) So, after a bit of fire, Dany gets another ready-made, VERY grateful army, SOME of which include Dothrakis who had been infected (explaining some casting for next year and also having the effect of keeping the Shireen didn’t die/Jorah doesn’t have to die stuff in play)
      c) Dany also finds at least one more dragon egg AND a good chunk of dragonglass.

      We know Drogon can get to Valyria. We know there is more to Greyscale than meets the eye. Longshot theory, but that’s my crackpot longshot theory.

      As far as the secret Targ (either Trystane or this alleged mystery woman) we will know that is true if the “Previously On” includes Oberyn “You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children!” routine.

        Quote  Reply

    167. They are not going to show us Meryn Trans as a pedo just for fun, but because

      in the book the KG Arya is going to murder IS a pedo himself, as he is told that by the other Guards, and this is the way Mercy manage to bait him into her trap

      Edit
      I was going to correct Trans with Trant, but I find it a too hilarious typo

        Quote  Reply

    168. Chad Brick,

      Stannis’s decision was presented perfectly fine. His discussion with Davos made it clear that backing out to Castle Black with the entire army was impossible now. If he’d back out, it would only be with a handful of men. Which means he basically admits defeat and drowns in snow at the Wall.

      He can’t back away, and he certainly can’t go forward either. The snows are hindering his army, even Roose (a Northman) doesn’t dare to march out in that weather. Then there’s the sickness and the lack of food and horses that was a huge problem long before Ramsay’s attack. And Ramsay’s attack just made everything a lot more hopeless.

      It was also made clear through Stannis’s talk with Melisandre in episode 7 and with Shireen in episode 9 that Stannis is doing it for his destiny “however much I may hate it.” People that think Stannis is doing it simply for the Throne weren’t paying attention.

      The show gave him a much more compelling dilemma than the books ever will for burning Shireen. There’s no way he’ll ever be in such a hopeless situation in the books as he was in the show.

        Quote  Reply

    169. jentario:
      Grand maester giz,

      503, 505, 507, and 508 were all uninanimously amazing episides. I’d argue that 509 is also. And then there’s 502 which was great and 506 which was controversial but also great IMO. 501 was literally the worst this season had to offer, and it wasn’t half bad.

      If the finale manages to wrap up Winterfell satisfyingly (which I’m not sure they can at this point), this’ll easily be my favorite season. Dorne is its only weak storyline.

      This kind of mirrors my view. I have no idea why 506 gets so much hate other than from people still hung up on the last scene. It was a really great episode outside of a few minutes of Dorne, and that is pretty much true for any episode that had Dorne in it. All of the other storylines have been strong this season, IMHO. I would currently rank the seasons 3=4>5=1>2, but even then, I don’t consider 2 a bad season. They’ve all had some great scenes and occasional scenes/storylines that just didn’t work.

        Quote  Reply

    170. Chad Brick,

      If I would only watch this episode you would be right.I mean the episode didn’t explained the bigger picture.What Stannis wants,what Mel wants,what the Lord of Light wants.But it doesn’t work like that,they can’t explain every episode all the plot around what’s happening.We have to draw conclusions based on all 10 episodes of the season and the rest of the seasons as well.
      As for Stannis.Stannis in the show is not Stannis from the books.They changed allot since season 2.I started then to draw a line between the two so id doesn’t affect me.I don’t know who it is who wants all this changes.Is it D&D,is it Martin,is it someone else.But it’s systematic.

        Quote  Reply

    171. Chad Brick,

      Almost nobody watching the show thinks that because one man (or a small party) can be sent back to the Wall that a whole army could be. Everybody knows that small parties are much, much more mobile than divisions of troops.

      The Manderly stuff would have just bogged down the storytelling with gratuitous plot and unnecessary incidental characters. Adding it would have done more to confuse and bore the audience than anything else.

        Quote  Reply

    172. Ser Gerold Dayne,

      The problems really come up only if they expect people to remember details from prior seasons without any reminders. However, they include a lot of reminders in the episodes: for example, Melissandre is a constant reminder that this is in part some sort of religious crusade. That is the sort of prompt that works with this sort of audience.

        Quote  Reply

    173. Wimsey,

      Plus, the main thing Manderly does to move Davos’ plot along can be done by Jon, Sansa, Brienne and Pod or even Littlefinger.

        Quote  Reply

    174. The more I think about it, EP.10 smells like cliffhangers all over the place. Impossible to resolve all those storylines in 60 minutes. every storyline will end with a death/ an appearance of death/very bad possibly mortal position…

      -In Meereen Jorah or Darrio wil be toasted by Rheagal and Tyrion «kidnap» by viserion as they are trying to release the dragons

      -After her WoS Cercei will rush to Tommen’s room, he will not answer, they will have to force the door down to discover that he commited suicide with his valyrian steel

      -Varys will surprise and kill Kevan Pycelle and/or Littlefinger

      -The Sandsnake will do a Darkstar and (fatally?) seriously injured Myrcella and/or killing Trystane in the process as he tries to protect her…

      -Stannis will begin his siege of Winterfell and face off Brienne who will remind him of Renly’s death.

      -Theon and Sansa will try to escape Winterfell and jump off the wall. Sansa will jump first and then Theon will jump and violently lands en her!! (as in the books lol )

      -Arya and Jaquen will discuss Trant’s death over a drink… The next morning sher wakes up blind in the middle of the streets of Bravoss or something like that

      -At Castle Black Jon Snow will be stabbed by (let’s hope) not just Angry Olly…

      And, LAST SCENE

      -In the Riverlands, it is snowing. Winter is here. A hooded woman, a resurrected woman remembers…

        Quote  Reply

    175. Wimsey,

      Exactly. And as I said, she made her point more explicitly than ever before just two weeks ago, while discussing burning Shireen no less: Stannis must be king when the Long Night comes or they all die. It’s really that simple, in her mind and to an extent in Stannis’ mind. And it HAS been presented as such in the show, repeatedly.

      People are not stupid; they get it.

        Quote  Reply

    176. jentario,
      You’re missing 10) Giant killer penguins on the rampage – they are big Shireen fans and didn’t take ep 9 well! Far better suited to very cold weather than humans and able to fight both on land and in the water, they will make the white walkers look like bumbling amateurs on the massacre front. For some inexplicable reason they didn’t turn up at Hardhome and know I know why, they are major advocates of the education for all principle and were waiting for a more deserving target of their giant beaky justice 😉

      Oh and whatever happens, as long as it stops Olly appearing EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Jon does and giving him stink eye (Stark eye?) I will be happy. Once he’d done it the 57th time I think even the most casual of viewers had noticed something was up 😉

      EDIT: Totally different to any other series finale? At last the all singing and dancing musical episode is here! We’ve already come up with suggestions for suitable songs in other threads and FreyJoy has done great lyric changes to some karaoke classics. Looks like this episode could be far more light entertainment and less gloom, doom and despair than feared. Cue the entire Night’s Watch singing Putting on the black to the tune of Putting on the Ritz 😀

        Quote  Reply

    177. Lulu’s Mum,

      Chekov’s Olly has become so obvious that I now don’t want it to happen, because that’d be more surprising. The threat that Olly posses to Jon has been noticed by many Unsullied I’ve seen in reviews and comments (of course it has; the foreshadowing has been jammed down our throats!), so I’d honestly prefer that he wasn’t one of the “For the Watch” traitors.

      Well… Let’s wait and see how they do it. Maybe they can do it yet do it right.

        Quote  Reply

    178. Luka Nieto,

      That is the key: reminding them every so often, particularly early in the season.

      It is odd that fans seem to take these two extreme positions: on one hand, there are those that claim that people are “stupid” if they do not remember small details from prior seasons (show runners insult our collective intelligence with reminders!); on the other hand, there are those that assume the audience needs to be told all of the background every episode.

      The truth is in between: provide occasional reminders, and this sort of audience will follow just fine.

        Quote  Reply

    179. Wimsey,

      I haven’t read the books. I never interpreted Stannis’ choice as nothing more than he felt he “had to do it because it is his destiny to save the world”. I never took it like he sacrificed his beloved daughter for a chair. That’s something Joffrey would do.
      I don’t agree with his decision, and he’s an asshole for doing that, and now I want him dead, but I UNDERSTAND that he felt he had to.

      I am torn because I want him to suffer now, meaning I would like that his sacrifice doesn’t actually work. But that makes me sad for Shireen.
      Personally, I think that Mel is wrong about who the chosen one is.
      The priestess in Volantis thinks Dany is the chosen one. One of them most be wrong. Or both.

        Quote  Reply

    180. Wimsey:

      Hey!Citing Chekhov is MY job!!!!

      No, no, no. You got it all wrong. There’s only one way to properly cite Chekhov: Excuse me. We are looking for nuclear wessels.

        Quote  Reply

    181. Luka Nieto,

      Yeah, it’s almost like a double bluff for book/spoiler readers. It’s absolutely Olly until someone else does it and he actually tries to stop them/get help/some other unexpected action. I don’t mind what he does I’m just bored of the massive deja vu every time I see Jon/him 😉

      Maybe he’s just going through an awkward teenage phase – he used to really like Jon but is now embarrassed to be friends with him because he’s really old and uncool, like when you suddenly didn’t want to go out in public with your parents in case any of your friends see you 😉

        Quote  Reply

    182. Going by what we’ve been given over the season:

      Sansa will definitely use that thing she picked up on her walk with Ramsey. She’ll intend to head to The Wall to ask for Jon’s help, obviously not knowing how F’d up things are about to be there.

      We haven’t seen Maergery kneeling on the ground holding on to someone’s waist yet. I doubt it’s her brother, so I’m going to say that Tommen will make it through the end of this season. But she’s definitely got some nefarious plans.

      They will not leave the other two dragons to starve to death. How they plan to release them, I don’t know, but I feel that it will for sure involve Jorah being used as bait, since he’s dying anyway. While they’re eating Jorah, perhaps some Unsullied will attempt to release them. Do you think Tyrion will take control of the Unsullied? Someone has to.

      I’ll play along with Dorne being ‘shocking’. I think it’s likely we’ll see Ellaria reveal she’s willing to die for revenge, and one of her daughters will cut or injure Mycella. OR – do you think it’s possible that it’s Doran himself who will die? Mycella will wear a crown then, for sure, without even having to set foot back in Kings Landing. I really hope it’s not Jamie that dies – I think Brienne and Jamie still have some unfinished business.

      Ayra will definitely kill Meryn. J’har definitely knows she’s lying. Her cliffhanger will be

      going blind.

      We will see FTW. I hope Jon

      is rescurrected somehow and they don’t leave us with him fading to black. That would just be cruel.

        Quote  Reply

    183. Deesensfan,

      Joffrey would have sacrificed a daughter for target practice with his crossbow….

      (He would have loved wights. “Look! I can kill him, he falls down dead… And then he gets up and I can do it again! Littlefinger’s whores always stay dead: and that’s boring.”)

        Quote  Reply

    184. Just an aside:

      Now that we know the run time of all episodes, isn’t this the longest season since season one (which I suspect will remain the longest forever)? I don’t have the complete numbers, but I’m pretty sure that’s the case, isn’t it?

        Quote  Reply

    185. Lady Wolfsbane:
      And the Dorne speculation begins…

      Hmmm.. not really any spoilers left to spoil, just gut speculation

      The Sandsnake that won the Emmy goes to Oldtown. The one with the whip is sent to Kings Landing. Ellaria goes totally mental with the help of the one that’s her actual daughter, try to kill Myrcella. Both get killed, along with Bronn.

      I really think it is Bronn that will get

      the Aerys Oakheart treatment from Tyene

        Quote  Reply

    186. Deesensfan,

      Just watch the inside of the episode what benioff says the moment when Tyrion sees dany riding the drogon …

      you will see who got it right

      Stannis sacrificed his daughter thinking he is doing that for fulfilling his destiny

      Dany saving his son and thus fulfilling her destiny without knowing about it

        Quote  Reply

    187. Luka Nieto,

      Ahh, I’m torn on this subject, even after having thought about it since the episode aired. You’re right, they did establish Stannis’ messianic destiny and his (alleged) importance in the apocalypse to come. The problem I have is that the circumstances leading up to the sacrifice do not seem dire enough. Sure, Stannis’ army is stuck in the snow and they’ll die unless a miracle happens, but that’s just a deliberate writing decision to have it happen that way. Sacrificing his only child so he can capture a castle? What about countless other battles with the true enemy (WWs) that supposedly lie ahead? Will Stannis sacrifice someone close to him every time his war effort gets derailed? I dunno man, that sounds awfully thin to me.

      I’d be much happier, and the sacrifice would be much more narratively appropriate (in the classical tragedy sense) had it happened for truly mythological and larger-than-life reasons. Not because of goddamn Ramsay and Winterfel, but during the climax of Stannis’ arc and in service of his ultimate attempt to prove worthy of his destiny. This has nothing to do with books or purism or inconsistency of character. I simply find it dramatically unsatisfying as it undercuts the tragedy of Stannis’ character.

        Quote  Reply

    188. Wimsey:
      Ginevra,

      Hey! Citing Chekhov is MY job!!!!

      I thought of you when I did so, and that was even before I’d read your “gun hung” post. But the more popular first act, third act cliche had been springing into my mind every time I thought about that little auger, with every episode that passes and we don’t see it. It has to be this episode, right? They wouldn’t introduce it in a season and not use it in that season.

        Quote  Reply

    189. Mr Fixit,

      Game of Thrones isn’t big on epic mythology. Don’t get me wrong, it takes most of its inspiration from Greek tragedy and the like, but it likes to take those concepts and make them gritty and kinda-realistic. This sacrifice is just one of many examples.

      Also, this sentence is just dumb:

      “Sure, his army is stuck in the snow and they’ll die unless a miracle happens, but that’s just a deliberate writing decision to have it happen that way.”

      Of course it’s just a deliberate writing decision to have it happen that way. Everything is! For example: Karstark killing those Lannister boys, leaving Robb with no choice but to execute him, losing most of his army and making him decide to pact with the Freys… which leads to the Red Wedding. GRRM made those events happen IN ORDER to arrive at the Red Wedding. This is not real life; this is fiction. Most often than not, an author knows something needs to happen and makes stuff up in order to make it happen.

      In this case, Ramsay’s sabotage made sense. Some have argued Stannis would’ve had guards… ignoring that the episode acknowledges it (either they were incompetent or traitors and Stannis wants them hanged.) The dire aftermath of the attack makes sense. So what’s the problem? That it didn’t happen that way in the books, so you didn’t expect it, which now makes it feel contrived.

      So, having established that if it feels contrived it’s only because everything in fiction is contrived, let’s tackle this: “Sacrificing his only child so he can capture a castle? What about countless other battles with the true enemy (WWs) that supposedly lie ahead?”. Nothing lies ahead if they die there (a point Melisandre, Stannis and Selyse have been explicitly making for a few episodes now.) Yes, the writers made the situation shitty so that Stannis would kill Shireen. That’s how writing works —These are not real people or events; D&D are not monsters for planning this instead of arriving at it naturally somehow. That’s just utterly absurd.

        Quote  Reply

    190. Deesensfan,

      what i said was Mel got it wrong not stannis….

      it was a mistake of Mel’s misinterpretation to begin with but completely agree that he did thinking it was his destiny but it was never his destiny ..

      he was simply a Lie that hides the true one (Dany) and eventually will realize it at the end …

        Quote  Reply

    191. Luka Nieto:

      Of course it’s just a deliberate writing decision to have it happen that way. Everything is! For example: Karstark killing those Lannister boys, leaving Robb with no choice but to execute him, losing most of his army and making him decide to pact with the Freys… which leads to the Red Wedding. GRRM made those events happen IN ORDER to arrive at the Red Wedding. This is not real life; this is fiction. Most often than not, an author knows something needs to happen and makes stuff up in order to make it happen.

      In this case, Ramsay’s sabotage made sense. Some have argued Stannis would’ve had guards… ignoring that the episode acknowledges it (either they were incompetent or traitors and Stannis wants them hanged.) The dire aftermath of the attack makes sense. So what’s the problem, exactly? Oh, it didn’t happen that way in the books. So now it feels contrived. Come on…

      So, that said: “Sacrificing his only child so he can capture a castle? What about countless other battles with the true enemy (WWs) that supposedly lie ahead?”. Nothing lies ahead if they die there. Yes, the writers made the situation shitty so that Stannis would kill Shireen. That’s how writing works, for god’s sake. These are not real people or events; D&D are not monsters for planning this instead of arriving at it naturally somehow. That’s just utterly absurd.

      I get you. I did say that my objections were not about the books or inconsistency of Stannis’ characters. Yes, faced with the inevitability of defeat, Stannis would sacrifice everyone and anyone, Shireen included. In his mind, with him dies the whole world. But I also don’t think that it’s dramatically satisfying to have the sacrifice be demanded of him because of what is, in this particular instance, the need to win a castle.

      That’s what I meant by “deliberate writing decision”. Of course that everything that happens in a work of fiction is someone’s writing decision, but that doesn’t mean that I, as a member of audience, have to agree with it. Here, I believe that the writers shouldn’t have structured the events in such a way that Stannis needs to sacrifice his daughter at this point in the story. I truly believe that it would be much more dramatically satisfying and that it would more fully underscore the tragedy of Stannis’ character arc if this fateful choice was to be in front of him when the stakes are much higher — not for him exclusively, but for the whole story of ASoIaF: fighting what he was born to fight — the Long Night and the White Walkers — and not a second-tier villain like the Boltons.

      That’s just my two cents, of course.

        Quote  Reply

    192. Wimsey:
      The truth is in between: provide occasional reminders, and this sort of audience will follow just fine.

      I kind of think that the fans represent that spectrum, though. There are some of us who obsessively watch each episode multiple times and have read the books once or even multiple times and who comment and read about the show for hours each week. But my bet is that at least half of the GoT viewers wouldn’t be able to identify half of the named characters from the show. If shown pictures of Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Tommen, Olly, Bronn, Sam, Davos, Theon, and Missandei, I doubt the average viewer would be able to name 50% of these characters. I bet it would be shocking the number who wouldn’t even get those first three.

        Quote  Reply

    193. My guess was that the Sand Snakes will be sent (maybe go one their own) to kill Tommen, placing Trystane and Myrcella on the throne……

        Quote  Reply

    194. Laurence

      Tommen suicide — I like that idea. If that were to happen, you could say it was foreshadowed. He is entirely torn between the two women he loves. He failed them both. He continues to fail them both. Last time we saw him he was totally distraught. That is intentional on the part of the showrunners. He isn’t answering the door. Dude ain’t even hungry.

        Quote  Reply

    195. Mr Fixit,

      I grant you that it’d would have felt more effective if the march had been even more grueling, if he had seen more people freezing to death or dying of hunger. But this show often feels rushed in that way; allowing what we’re discussing here would mean cutting time from other storylines, some of which already feel too tight.

      As for the stakes… they couldn’t be higher in his mind. Mind you, I’m not a religious fanatic so it’s tricky for me to get it, but in his mind either they get out of there alive or everyone dies because Stannis won’t be there to fight those greater battles you mention.

        Quote  Reply

    196. “I don’t believe in third chances.”
      I think Ellaria will move again against Doran, trying to kill or kidnap Myrcella. It will end with Areo Hotah cutting her head off.
      During the attack, Myrcella could get injured and Bronn and/or Sand Snakes possibly killed.

        Quote  Reply

    197. Ginevra: I thought of you when I did so, and that was even before I’d read your “gun hung” post

      Well, it is in public domain by now, so I guess I cannot hoard it, can I…..

      Ginevra: I kind of think that the fans represent that spectrum, though.

      Part of it is how you define “fan.” For any show or movie series like this, the vast majority of viewers like the show (obviously), but they don’t consider it an “event” and they don’t think too much about it between episodes. You can call that the “general audience” or “casual fans” or whatever you like.

      And then there are the nut jobs like us that William Shatner exhorted to move out of our parents basement and kiss a girl (or boy) before you turn 40…. 😛

      Ginevra: But my bet is that at least half of the GoT viewers wouldn’t be able to identify half of the named characters from the show. If shown pictures of Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Tommen, Olly, Bronn, Sam, Davos, Theon, and Missandei, I doubt the average viewer would be able to name 50% of these characters.

      That is always the case. After all, on screen, the face is the character, not the name. There are a lot of shows I watch where I never remember the characters names, or I refer to them by the names of more prominent roles that they had in the past!

      However, there is a reason why the rule of thumb for film and TV is “show, don’t tell.” In the visual medium, audiences latch on to what they see, not what they hear.

        Quote  Reply

    198. Luka Nieto: I grant you that it’d would have felt more effective if the march had been even more grueling, if he had seen more people freezing to death or dying of hunger.

      That is such a fine line to walk between communicating the point and “we got it already.” Personally, I thought that the conditions they showed in the camp (with bundled soldiers looking completely unfocused and almost disoriented) did a pretty good job of telling us that conditions and morale in the camp were very low at that point.

      And, to an extent, I think that they are relying on the audience to associate this with Napoleon’s or Hitler’s marches on Moscow. Thanks to those two, the concept of armies foundering in the snow is well entrenched in peoples’ minds. (Never thought I’d thank either Napoleon or Hitler for anything, but there you have it!)

        Quote  Reply

    199. Lulu’s Mum,

      Psych did a musical in their final season. I was psyched about it. And then I watched it. Meh. Their Harry Potter, comic book, and Twin Peaks episodes were so much better. Perhaps they should have parodied The Sound of Music. T’would be awesome to watch Lassie yodeling in lederhosen.

      I couldn’t find Freyjoy.

        Quote  Reply

    200. Rodrik the Reader,

      I’m still singing My Shireena and laughing at your suggestion of Loras doing I’m coming out. I saw Finn Jones being interviewed once and he was really bouncy and enthusiastic; I reckon he could bust a move on the dance floor. I can imagine him doing Loras as THE most fabulous prisoner EVAH and thinking now that everyone knows and he’s got nothing to lose he might as well go full-on disco diva. He’d burst out of prison in a big shower of glitter doing his best Diana Ross impression, flounce up to Cersei saying “honey, you’re only a queen by marriage but I’ll ALWAYS be one” and exit stage right being held aloft by some oiled up muscle men like Liza Minnelli. If you’ve got it flaunt it! And anyone who’s ever worn a feather boa can tell you they are surprisingly warm and would be very good for wintery conditions, especially if you’re from a warm place like Highgarden 😀 It’s been a rather dark few weeks on the show, even by their standards, so a bit of light relief would be good please! Yes I know it’s not real but that’s not the point 🙁

        Quote  Reply

    201. Luka Nieto,

      People are stupid, they don’t pay attention, and they don’t get it. 95% of reviews I have read/watched claim that Stannis did it because he is power hungry, greedy, and wants to be King. Virtually nobody even mentioned the Azor Ahai aspect, even some Sullied reviewers claimed it was just for the Iron Throne.

        Quote  Reply

    202. Grand maester giz:
      jentario,

      Ur favorite season ? What we’re u sleeping threw 3-4 Rewatch 3-4 – and 1 is a classic . What do you enjoy , the way the show is stupfiying the story ? You must love the sand snakes repeating them selves I am obara sand obara sand humiliation or pain humiliation or pain , the most beuatiful girl in the world , most beautiful girl in the world . Look last episode was very emotionally gripping but outside the shireen burn and dazniks pit ( I thought that was a great scene ) the pit announcer deserves a ten – every episode 9 of every season was much better . Season 4 was far better than season 5. Your just a fan boy who won’t admit the obvious

      *stops to read the “don’t feed the trolls” warning on the way in and skips on by these posts munching on her popcorn*

        Quote  Reply

    203. DeCo:
      This crossed my mind: what about that duck that Nikolaj said was a spoiler?

      He was just trolling – there’s an interview where he admits to it.

        Quote  Reply

    204. Luka Nieto: Of course it’s just a deliberate writing decision to have it happen that way. Everything is!

      How absurd that this even needs to be said, and yet it seems more and more like it’s a shocking revelation to a lot of people. There’s a difference between getting invested in a story and going straight-up delusional.

      Mark: Virtually nobody even mentioned the Azor Ahai aspect, even some Sullied reviewers claimed it was just for the Iron Throne.

      To be fair, that’s probably because the show virtually never mentions the Azor Ahai aspect. Lightbringer may as well not exist on TV, and for me that was one of the most compelling pieces of this part of the story.

      Unrelated, did anyone else catch the Game of Thrones discussion on NPR today? I guess I didn’t realize that “even battle hardened fans are in an uproar over this last season” but that’s what the piece was all about…

        Quote  Reply

    205. Ginevra,
      The person apparently standing on a clifftop at the beginning of the ep 10 trailer immediately reminded me of the opening scene of The Sound of Music when the camera zooms in on Julie Andrews from a distance.

      FreyJoy’s song is at June 9 2015, 1:48 pm in the tweets thread.

      I replied to you in the open post thread about your Shireen heads up and tiny fairy song but in case you missed it, a big thank you, it was exactly what I was after. I bailed the split second she was outside the tent and didn’t see anything at all. Judging by other people’s comments on the scene it sounds like I saved myself from needing extensive PTSD treatment 🙁 But as I didn’t see anything it didn’t happen (first law of Lulu’s Mum’s cannon, the lesser known cousin of show and book cannon) 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    206. Mark,

      Not being a smart ass or anything, but has the show even mentioned Azor Ahai at all? I recall Mel telling Renly “he is the lords chosen, born amidst salt and smoke”

        Quote  Reply

    207. Ace of Mace: Could the strangers be knights of Westeros? Is she going to fly all the way to Kings Landing? I thought knew what the ep 10 synopsis means but now I’m so excited.

      This is a long, long shot, but I wonder if Bran’s vision of the dragon over KL last season was Drogon taking Dany for a flyby? To be honest I’m not convinced myself (surely that’s a long flight, and it would overshadow Cersei’s story right now if everyone saw a bloody dragon in the sky, IMO) but maybe…

        Quote  Reply

    208. Valaquen,

      This is why I wouldn’t last 5 minutes on this show…after a nice little flight around the sky, I’d get a cramp or something stupid and fall off my dragon.

        Quote  Reply

    209. Valaquen: This is a long, long shot, but I wonder if Bran’s vision of the dragon over KL last season was Drogon taking Dany for a flyby? To be honest I’m not convinced myself (surely that’s a long flight, and it would overshadow Cersei’s story right now if everyone saw a bloody dragon in the sky, IMO) but maybe…

      It wouldn’t necessarily overshadow Cersei’s story if Cersei’s bit happened first and then we got the flying dragon shadow before the fade-to-black… but then that doesn’t fulfill the “Dany surrounded by strangers” bit in the synopsis so I’m thinking no… intriguing thought though.

        Quote  Reply

    210. Lulu’s Mum:
      Ginevra,
      The person apparently standing on a clifftop at the beginning of the ep 10 trailer immediately reminded me of the opening scene of The Sound of Music when the camera zooms in on Julie Andrews from a distance.

      Surrounded by Septas and singing “How do you solve a problem like Meereen?”

        Quote  Reply

    211. Wimsey,

      Remember also that Benioff wrote a highly regarded novel called ‘City of Thieves,’ about two lads navigating the hell that was the Siege of Leningrad.

      The plot involved them hunting for a carton of eggs for a Soviet officer. (For the starving, those eggs were as valuable as dragon eggs!)

      So, perhaps for Benioff, shorthand references (visual and textual) to the dire conditions of the Stannis camp were all that was needed to get the message across.

        Quote  Reply

    212. Sundancer,

      Possibly but Myrcella dying immeditately puts KL and the alliance there on standby and ruins any element of surprise ( which Doran seems to be going out of his way to maintain). Plus they get no one on the council as they really have no chance of that with Myrcella dead.

      Hmmm I think Ellaria is a goner as I don’t see what role she plays moving forward. I think she’ll kill or injure Myrcella and then get killed herself. I think the Sand Snakes may be in on it. If any are going to die it will be Tyene as she’s the only one who has had even a lick of charater development and there must have been something to the game of slapseys they were playing last episode. Perhaps at the hands of Bronn, Jaime (father-daughter bonding) or more likely Hotah. Still get the feeling Bronn may die but not sure how or why. Would say all three snakes survive but if Trystane is going to get a place on the council and is going to be a proxy Arianne then he needs to stay alive. Nym to Oldtown and Obara will infiltrate the faith. If Jaime makes it through, I’ll be satisfied. If Jaime and Bronn do, over the moon. Jaime , Bronn and Myrcella then we can move away from Dorne satisfied that it hasn’t damaged the main plot/characters too badly. Although Myrcella dying wouuld certainly drive a wedge between Jaime and Cersei but then again so would her getting injured/mutilated.
      I think Varys will show up and him and Doran will reveal the plan with Dany, etc to get the remaining Sand Snakes back on side after the death of Ellaria and possibly one of their kin. But I honestly don’t know.

        Quote  Reply

    213. Luka Nieto:

      But this show often feels rushed in that way; allowing what we’re discussing here would mean cutting time from other storylines, some of which already feel too tight.

      A necessary if regrettable consequence of condensing over 2,000 pages into 10 episodes. I understand. As Chad Brick said, and many other had been saying for the last 2-3 years , an extended 13 episode-long Season 5 would’ve been ideal. Since that was never going to happen, I’m perfectly happy to accept the present turn of events instead of Martin’s proposed — and quite ludicrous — two or even three seasons of Feast and Dance.

        Quote  Reply

    214. Lulu’s Mum,

      If I may be allowed to continue with the ‘Sound of Music’ inanity…

      (Gimme a C, a bouncy C!)

      Dany in Episode 10:

      Dorne, a spear, a flaming spear,
      Reynes, a drop on Castamere,
      Meereen, a place, I’ll burn myself,
      Far, a long, long way from home,
      Sword, a Needle killing dread,
      Lions, I’ll smite you for Rhaegar,
      Tears, I’ll drink with salt and bread,
      That will win me back the Throne, Throne, Throne…

      Oh, and of course, there’s also:

      Sansa singing ‘Candle in the Wind’ (Elton Jon)

      –and–

      The Stark family singers bringing down the house with ‘Hungry Like the Wolf’ (Duran Duran).

      Hey, don’t hate me, I don’t have Freyjoy’s, JCDavis’s, or Ginevra’s gifts!

        Quote  Reply

    215. Luka Nieto,
      Wimsey,

      I agree that Stannis was an absolutist and his Azor Ahai delusion (courtesy of Mel) seems fairly solid. But I also concur with many others who question why Stannis is written in such a flatline manner. Where is his growth, or doubt about religious fanaticism? Shall we simply paint him in a corner, unflinching, from ACoK to TWoW, because he is a secondary character? Surely in this case, there was doubt about this decision to sacrifice Shireen that could have been explored further. I bet that TWoW will have the reader wondering if Mel actually made/influenced the decision to burn Shireen at the wall to try to save Stannis, who is hundreds of leagues away. We won’t know for sure how much D&D creatively assumed certain things until the book is in hand. (Oh, the debates that are coming if that is so!)

      I believe that this situation could have been used as a defining point for Stannis as he debated his commander skills vs his voodoo dependency. It also could have provided a very difficult split between Mel and him with Selyse in the middle. But even if there was a moment of doubt with his earlier scene with Shireen, the show has now made it cut and dry that the delusion of Stannis is complete and he has thrown his soul to Mel. Why is it so hard for me to accept him as an ultimate tool, dammit!!!?? Regardless of the mechanics behind the decision, I believe this will be a major tragedy (like the classics already discussed). The preview of Stannis wielding his faux Lightbringer gives me the shivers.

      Finally, it shouldn’t be considered “stupid” of folks to wonder why such a flatline portrayal is being offered. It is a grand debate to have for anyone with a soul.

        Quote  Reply

    216. Rodrik the Reader:
      Lulu’s Mum,

      If I may be allowed to continue with the ‘Sound of Music’ inanity…

      (Gimme a C, a bouncy C!)

      Dany in Episode 10:

      Dorne, a spear, a flaming spear,
      Reynes, a drop on Castamere,
      Meereen, a place, I’ll burn myself,
      Far, a long, long way from home,
      Sword, a Needle killing dread,
      Lions, I’ll smite you for Rhaegar,
      Tears, I’ll drink with salt and bread,
      That will win me back the Throne, Throne, Throne…

      Oh, and of course, there’s also:

      Sansa singing ‘Candle in the Wind’ (Elton Jon)

      –and–

      The Stark family singers bringing down the house with ‘Hungry Like the Wolf’ (Duran Duran).

      Hey, don’t hate me, I don’t have Freyjoy’s, JCDavis’s, or Ginevra’s gifts!

      Excellent

      Melisandre sings “Because the Night (is dark and full of terrors)”

      Not to forget Stannis singing “Bring your daughter to the slaughter” (too soon?)

        Quote  Reply

    217. Arya Havin’ a Larf?,
      Like it! I don’t think anyone’s worked out who it is as they are waaaaaaaay too small, but if it is Dany I was thinking “The hills are aliiiiiiive with the sound of dragons”. Shame, she could have sung So long, farewell as she flew out of the pit and Jorah could sing “Khaleesi” to the tune of Edelweiss. Littlefinger’s got Climb ev’ry laddaaaah (mountain); Margery I am 16 going on 35; and if the Sand Snakes met someone new who was having difficulty remembering which one’s which, they could do their initials to the tune of Do Re Mi – Oo En Tee. That’s settled then, ep 10 is a remake of The Sound of Music. It is known 😉

      EDIT: This is reply to the Sound of Music post, but we’ve zoomed on since then I see. Yes it IS too soon for Iron Maiden thank you, although swapping that for Run to the hills, run for your liiiiiiiiife is certainly apt!

        Quote  Reply

    218. This season has been great, if rushed/oversimplified at the Wall and in KL (but we mainly know that if we read the books). I think maybe Jon should have been elected in S4, and maybe Cersei should not have gotten arrested till Ep10, maybe…

      4> 1=5 > 3 > 2

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    219. Well it’s not TSOM but Arya HAS to sing “The Needle and the Damage Done”

      “I watched the needle
      Take another man
      Gone, gone, the damage done.”

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    220. Rodrik the Reader,
      Inanity!?!?!?! How dare you Ser, it’s a timeless classic! 😉 And you are just as gifted as the others. You could form a song writing talent pool like they had for record labels in the 60s 😀

        Quote  Reply

    221. Ross,

      Wait, have you read King Lear? He is a kind, caring old man who gives up his throne in old age so his daughters may rule. He goes insane, and then regains his sanity after realising his daughter’s love, only to die. Stannis is NOT Lear.

        Quote  Reply

    222. Lulu’s Mum:
      Arya Havin’ a Larf?,
      Like it! I don’t think anyone’s worked out who it is as they are waaaaaaaay too small, but if it is Dany I was thinking “The hills are aliiiiiiive with the sound of dragons”. Shame, she could have sung So long, farewell as she flew out of the pit and Jorah could sing “Khaleesi” to the tune of Edelweiss. Littlefinger’s got Climb ev’ry laddaaaah (mountain); Margery I am 16 going on 35; and if the Sand Snakes met someone new who was having difficulty remembering which one’s which, they could do their initials to the tune of Do Re Mi – Oo En Tee. That’s settled then, ep 10 is a remake of The Sound of Music. It is known

      EDIT: This is reply to the Sound of Music post, but we’ve zoomed on since then I see. Yes it IS too soon for Iron Maiden thank you, although swapping that for Run to the hills, run for your liiiiiiiiife is certainly apt!

      Right, just as well I didn’t suggest

      a well known song by The Crazy World of Arthur Brown

        Quote  Reply

    223. Sansarya:
      Ross,

      Wait, have you read King Lear?He is a kind, caring old man who gives up his throne in old age so his daughters may rule.He goes insane, and then regains his sanity after realising his daughter’s love, only to die.Stannis is NOT Lear.

      I don’t know the story of Lear at all but maybe Ross is thinking of MacBeth as well/instead? Guy with initially good and noble aims (Stannis) goes along with his wife’s (Selyse) plans to gain him power at the expense of others. She’s the one pushing the agenda to start off with but he comes around to her way of thinking and they both get deeper and deeper into doing terrible things, including killing totally innocent people (the little smiley one) and colluding with witches (Mel), until there’s no way out. The terrible reality of what they’ve done causes her to loose her mind and he is brought down by former close allies (Davos?). I haven’t read it for about 30 years and thought there was a slight resemblance story-wise, which others have already mentioned, but now I’ve typed it out it seems much more than a casual similarity. Selyse doesn’t exactly come across as mentally stable and if Davos doesn’t go completely postal when he finds out what happened I will….well, be very surprised to say the least.

        Quote  Reply

    224. Arya Havin’ a Larf?,
      Shireen brought out my maternal instinct like no other character ever has. The only way I managed to cope with ep 9 was by completely by-passing a certain scene altogether. Oh look Shireen’s talking to Dad aaaaaaaand we’re in Meereen. Don’t make me come over there and go all Night’s King on you! 😉 Oh and don’t forget the Doors’ Light my fire 🙂

      EDIT: Note to self, Macbeth has a small “b”. I haven’t read it since 1764, I’m surprised I can even remember his name 🙁

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    225. Sansarya:
      Ross,

      Wait, have you read King Lear?He is a kind, caring old man who gives up his throne in old age so his daughters may rule.He goes insane, and then regains his sanity after realising his daughter’s love, only to die.Stannis is NOT Lear.

      Sure have, did literature at degree level 🙂 The comparison with Macbeth is obviously more accurate, I just feel there are elements of the Lear storyline there (more than shared characteristics). Lear does have a degree of stubbornness and single-mindedness and is swayed by persuasive women into making a very poor decision which leads to madness and tragedy. I can see some potential for parallels there 🙂

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    226. I think there is a lot of Macbeth in Stannis. Macbeth is given a prophecy that he will be king but things in the prophecy that he takes as assurance… Aren’t.

      He was once a good man but blinded by ambition (and at his wife’s urging) he rationalizes his actions until he comes the villain of the piece. And the prophecy that he thought supported him was actually a prophecy of his downfall.

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    227. Harma Dogememe: How absurd that this even needs to be said, and yet it seems more and more like it’s a shocking revelation to a lot of people. There’s a difference between getting invested in a story and going straight-up delusional.

      To be fair, that’s probably because the show virtually never mentions the Azor Ahai aspect. Lightbringer may as well not exist on TV, and for me that was one of the most compelling pieces of this part of the story.

      Unrelated, did anyone else catch the Game of Thrones discussion on NPR today? I guess I didn’t realize that “even battle hardened fans are in an uproar over this last season” but that’s what the piece was all about…

      They have mentioned Azor Ahai a couple of times.

        Quote  Reply

    228. Lulu’s Mum:
      Arya Havin’ a Larf?,
      Shireen brought out my maternal instinct like no other character ever has. The only way I managed to cope with ep 9 was by completely by-passing a certain scene altogether. Oh look Shireen’s talking to Dad aaaaaaaand we’re in Meereen. Don’t make me come over there and go all Night’s King on you! Oh and don’t forget the Doors’ Light my fire

      EDIT: Note to self, Macbeth has a small “b”. I haven’t read it since 1764, I’m surprised I can even remember his name

      Show!Shireen was much much easier to form an attachment to than Book!Shireen – still we will have the chance for eulogies in the Curtain Call (gulp!).

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    229. Hodor’s Bastard: But I also concur with many others who question why Stannis is written in such a flatline manner. Where is his growth, or doubt about religious fanaticism?

      As for why Stannis is so static, well, that’s hard to say. I suppose that he just sees the world in such dichotomous terms that he rarely has the internal conflict upon which to build. He is, first and foremost, the general.

      As for his doubt about the religious fanaticism, I think that the problem is that seeing is thinking: and he’s seen too much of what Mel’s magic can do. He might not like it: but whether Stannis likes a thing or not never affects his decisions. He takes a strategy and then devises tactics to maximize the success of that strategy.

      Hodor’s Bastard: Finally, it shouldn’t be considered “stupid” of folks to wonder why such a flatline portrayal is being offered. It is a grand debate to have for anyone with a soul.

      Well, he would be good fodder of an arc about gaining a soul. However, GRRM (and the show) have done that with Jaime. Here, we have another character (Davos) basically trying to be Stannis’ soul.

      Ultimately, I think that this just represents GRRM (and subsequently B&W) using a variety of types of people for story telling purposes. Stannis is a man who has been dead inside forever. Davos is a man who, out of truly genuine loyalty and affection, is trying to be the life inside of him. Stannis’ has a general’s morality: it is moral failure to not do anything you can to win the larger war. Davos has a philosopher’s ethic: what is the point in winning the war if the cost of winning is the same as losing? The latter is a question that someone like Stannis cannot easily entertain. If he were a modern general, then he would think it perfectly acceptable to devise tactics with nukes that makes sure that we are bouncing the other guy’s rubble long after they are bouncing ours!

      So, the question isn’t stupid. However, the answer is (I think) simple if not easy: Stannis is and always will be a foil for Davos and (to a lesser degree) other characters.

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    230. Luka Nieto,

      They might be en-route 😉

      And who then, is the mystery woman who surfaces in Dorne for the finale, whom the reporters weren’t allowed to write about, who is now being mentioned in all these pre-finale interviews, if not Dany?

        Quote  Reply

    231. Lulu’s Mum,
      Arya Havin’ a Larf?,
      Yes, I’m loving The Sound of Thrones!

      I finally saw the BBQ song. I was looking at Axey’s Twitter account. Bless.

      So, I know we were going with a Sound of Music theme, but this filk would be fairly apropos if we deviated from that theme.

      Sansa’s Song: I Will Survive

      At first I was afraid, I was petrified
      Thinking I couldn’t go on after you stole my pride
      And I’ve been spending nights
      Thinking how you did me wrong
      And I grew strong
      And I’ve learned how to get along

      And now you’re gone
      Without a trace
      But you’ve come back now, with that loony look upon your face
      I should have lit that stupid candle
      Should’ve gelded your wee wee
      If I’d known for one second that you’d be worse than Joffrey

      I’ll go now, go. Walk out the gate
      Won’t turn around now
      I’m not making Brienne wait
      You’re the fool who never thought I would defy
      Do you think I’d crumble
      Did you think I’d lay down and die?

      No, not I. I will survive
      Long as I know how to play
      I know I’ll stay alive
      I’ve got all my life to live
      And all my game to give and I’ll survive
      I, I, I will survive

        Quote  Reply

    232. Shipp,

      Yeah agree. And despite all his despicable acts, I always can’t help but feel sorry for Macbeth as his prophecy is essentially a con. Kinda like Stannis 🙁

        Quote  Reply

    233. Hodor’s Bastard,

      I could be wrong, but I think his arc will change before the story is finished. True, it would have been lovely to see him come ’round before he sacrificed Shireen, but I still think we may see it.

        Quote  Reply

    234. Ginevra,

      Fabulous. And back in Slaver’s Bay (and ‘The Sound of Music,’ alas):

      Jorah sings ‘Edelweiss’

      Khaleesi, Khaleesi
      Every morning I seek thee,
      Small and white, clean and bright,
      Please be happy to see me,
      Dragon of mine may you soar in flight,
      Soar in flight forever,
      Khaleesi, Khaleesi
      Bless this old bear forever.

      I… I think I just made myself cry (sniff)!

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    235. Ginevra,
      Hehe – I want to see Sam serenade Gilly with Mr Loverman by Shabba Ranks

      You have it in a your mind fi come thrill me wid it
      A going lay down and make you thrill me wid it
      Because thrilling that is my favourite habit
      And when me lay down you know me nah run from it

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    236. Wimsey: Stannis is a man who has been dead inside forever. Davos is a man who, out of truly genuine loyalty and affection, is trying to be the life inside of him.

      Loved that and your entire response. Thx, W. Davos is away and he is a dead man walking.

      I think a fitting moment will be when/if Stannis’ faux Lightbringer shatters in the WF attack. In that instance, the dawn will shed its light upon Stannis and the weight of his cognitive distortion will crush him.

      (Perhaps Oathkeeper will be the sword that shreds the faux Lightbringer?)

        Quote  Reply

    237. GaiusB:
      “it’s like no season finale they’ve had before.”
      – many storylines end on cliffhanger, there is a little chance they could do some sort of closure to most storylines

      Some sort of Darkstar plot- D+D seems to love it since they genderswitched him and cloned him four times. That would fit all foreshadowing of Myrcella, Bronn, Jaime deaths. At least one of them would die, probably Arys Bronnstar killed by Areo´s Checkov axe.

      Yep. That is my bet. Arys Bronnstar gets it with Areo’s axe. And I want a full version of The Dornishman’s Wife, too!

      And I love all the musical ideas!

        Quote  Reply

    238. Musical number for Cersei – this is a SPOILER

      Pink – Walk of Shame

      One step, two steps,
      Counting tiles on the floor
      Three steps, four steps,
      Guess this means that I’m a whore
      Uh-oh,
      Hell no,
      How long ’til I reach the door?
      Fuck me,
      My feet are sore

        Quote  Reply

    239. Ross,

      Sorry, I just realised my response to you was so rude, that was not the intention. I was just so shocked to see Lear mentioned, I wrote without thinking.

      I do see the comparisons you make, but Lear is such a sweetie in the end I can help but think of him that way.

        Quote  Reply

    240. Mark:
      Luka Nieto,

      People are stupid, they don’t pay attention, and they don’t get it. 95% of reviews I have read/watched claim that Stannis did it because he is power hungry, greedy, and wants to be King. Virtually nobody even mentioned the Azor Ahai aspect, even some Sullied reviewers claimed it was just for the Iron Throne.

      At some point you just have to accept that some people see the character differently than you do. And accept that for some an obsession with being ‘greatest hero ever (who will be king)’ can be read as obsession with heroism, obsession with throne, delusions of grandeur …. or true believer in his destiny trying to fulfill it.

      People are going to reach different conclusions on the same material because how they define these things is different. One person’s ‘dutiful heroism’ is another’s ‘narcissistic martyr’. That a reviewer reads it differently than you doesn’t mean that either you or they are reading it wrong just that they are reading it differently.

        Quote  Reply

    241. Arya Havin’ a Larf?,

      Ha! I love P!nk, but they don’t seem to play that song on Radio Disney for some reason. (All of my exposure to modern-day music from Radio Disney since my tweens force me to listen. Some of it I love. Some not so much.)

        Quote  Reply

    242. Luka Nieto:
      Chad Brick,

      I’m sorry but that’s absurd. Viewers are not that stupid.

      Granted, maybe the writers could’ve had Melisandre give the same speech she gave two weeks ago (yet again!), but honestly, I think people get it by now. Stannis alluded to it while talking to her daughter just before the sacrifice (fulfilling one’s destiny, however much one may hate it, which is very much in line with Stannis’ obsession with duty); and Melisandre made this point explicitly in The Gift, just two episodes before this horrific event, precisely while trying to convince Stannis to burn Shireen:

      They presented it beautifully, as far as I am concerned…

      I disagree completely. A lot of viewers took the wrong message from this sacrifice. Let’s look at some of the unsullied reviews that this site links every week. One would think these people are much more clued-in than the average viewer.

      http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-game-of-thrones-the-dance-of-dragons-the-unforgettable-fire

      “Shireen herself points out the destructiveness of her father’s single-minded pursuit of the Iron Throne”

      http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/game-thrones-newbies-dance-dragons-220496

      “He’s a tragic monster who, if I read the fire correctly, literally every single viewer is now gleefully anticipating dying”

      http://watchersonthewall.com/david-nutter-and-jessica-henwick-look-ahead-at-the-game-of-thrones-season-finale-2/#comment-352584

      “If Shireen was going to die at the hands of her own father, if he was going to make that terrible Greek choice…Stannis has driven a stake through his own heart, and if he wins the Iron Throne after all, the memory of this pyre will make the victory a Pyrrhic one”

      Clearly, all of these reviewers perceive Stannis’s primary ambition to win the crown. In fact, NONE of the seven unsullied reviews this site linked clearly indicated that they understood that Stannis believed he was choosing between Shireen and Zombie Apocalypse, not Shireen and one more step to the Crown.

      They are clearly not alone. The instant mountain of Stannis-hate that appeared can only result from perceiving this as a daughter-vs-crown choice. Daughter-vs-risk-of-apocalypse is one that rational people can disagree about, but one that should not result in rational people hating those who make the opposing choice. Unfortunately, it appears that the lines Stannis said to Shireen about “destiny” were taken by many as his destiny to seize the crown that is rightfully his, not stop the White Walkers.

      As for fleeing, I’ve challenged people here and elsewhere a number of times as to what Stannis should have done instead. 100% of the answers were “Go back to the Wall”. D&D should have slammed the door shut on this option. Instead, not only did they leave this door cracked open, they then pointed this out right as Stannis’s choice was revealed. The way they could have done this was to have Kevan Lannister seize Dragonstone offscreen rather than sulking at the Rock all season. Stannis could have received a raven telling him that his home was lost during his scene with Davos in E9.

        Quote  Reply

    243. I think what will “break the Internet” has to involve LSH (perhaps Sansa taking on that role) and I feel like Pod & Gilly are toast. Have a feeling Brienne’s fate will go into season 6….I don’t want anything to happen to her. There is no way Jaime & Bronn will just get to skate out of Dorne either. Dany needs to go retrieve her other two kids still chained in the dungeon!

        Quote  Reply

    244. Mr Fixit,

      Regarding why D&D decided to do the Shireen burning at this moment…perhaps because Stannis may die (Brienne?) in the next episode?

        Quote  Reply

    245. Sansarya,

      No not at all! 🙂 I’m interested you find him a sweetie though – he does redeem himself in the end, but the way he treats Cordelia initially is awful.

      Anyway, I think Stannis is certainly reminiscent of a ‘Shakespearean’ character. He also reminds me of Coriolanus – a very impressive general, proud and stubborn and again directed in his decision-making by a strong persuasive woman (in that case his mother).

        Quote  Reply

    246. jentario,

      My theory is that Stannis wins at Winterfell and then:

      Davos tosses Red Velvet off the battlements after she has completed her vision and then Brienne follows behind after Podrick sneaks her in the back way after infiltrating as a Bard andstabs Stannis in the back to avenge Renly. And then Brienne, Podrick, and Sansa ride to Castle Black to arrive in season 6 but not in time to save Jon from FTW.

        Quote  Reply

    247. Tara:
      Calling it now: Trystane is revealed as Young Griff!

      Now that would work! Does he dye his silver hair black? It would be an awesome call back to other bath scenes if he washed the black away after the wedding but before the bedding.

        Quote  Reply

    248. Wimsey:
      Grand maester giz,

      Tywin would have killed Tyrion if he (Tywin) had even suspected that Tyrion was another man’s child.

      I think if Aerys raped Joanna, wouldn’t it be more fun if Jaime and Cersei were the result and Tywin’s only trueborn son was Tyrion?

        Quote  Reply

    249. Geralt of Rivia:
      thremnir,

      Yeah I think you are right.

      My guess is that the Great Masters of Slaver’s Bay will lay seige to Meereen and Tyrion, Jorah, and Daario will do their best to defend it in Episode 1 of Season 6 after seeing an army or fleet of ships appear in the season 5 finale and it will be Yara (Asha) who will be trying to compete for the Seastone Chair by capturing a dragon!

        Quote  Reply

    250. Mr Fixit,

      I think the main reason why Shireen wasn’t burned for a crucial battle is that D&D are going to kill Stannis next episode. If this is the case, they’ve truncated his story arc. But why isn’t it a crucial battle? Stannis will need the North’s support in the end game, so the Boltons must fall. At any cost. Especially if he and his army freeze/starve themselves to death before he can take up the mantle of Azor Ahai reborn in the final battle. [\spoiler]

      Just realized that i already replied to you on this ha ha

        Quote  Reply

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