Borgen actress joins the cast of Game of Thrones

Birgitte

A new Game of Thrones trailer surfaced today courtesy of HBO Asia, bringing with it a few new shots of footage including one of a wildling woman with a familiar face.

Identified in our comments section by WotW reader SerCountryFriedSteak, the wildling is played by Danish actress Birgitte Hjort Sørensen. She’s best known for playing news anchor Katrine Fønsmark for three seasons on the hit drama Borgen.

The actress is also set to appear in the Martin Scorsese-directed HBO pilot focusing on the ’70’s rock ‘n roll scene.

UPDATE!: The actress has confirmed on her Twitter that she is playing “a wildling chieftainess concerned with the future of her people.” 

wildlingSo who is she playing in Game of Thrones? The actress’s specific role is unknown at the moment. Our sources confirm that that was her in the trailer, but that she is not playing Val, the wildling ‘princess’ featured in the last few ASOIAF novels.

Last fall, multiple wildling leaders were cast for a major battle episode this year that we now know is focusing on the location called Hardhome. Perhaps Sørensen is playing one of the other notable wildling figures and her character is an invented one? Given that she is a well-established actress and featuring in an HBO pilot at the moment, she’d hardly be just an extra.

146 responses

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    1. Mother Mole??

      Likely an amalgamation of Mother Mole and Val, so technically not Val.
      Maybe they’ll call her Dalla.

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    2. Yeah, with a shot focused on her like that, I doubt she’s an extra. Most likely a wildling leader at Hardhome. Maybe a version of Harma Dogshead, a very brutal and violent wildling figure.

      Still keeping hope that Zoe Smedberg is Val’s version of the show !

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    3. I hope “not Val” just means “not named Val” and that she can still play Val’s role to some degree going forward, because she looks pretty great for the part.

      Or it’s just a cameo, similar to Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje being brought in to pay Malko.

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    4. Arkash: Yeah, with a shot focused on her like that, I doubt she’s an extra. Most likely a wildling leader at Hardhome. Maybe a version of Harma Dogshead, a very brutal and violent wildling figure.

      Still keeping hope that Zoe Smedberg is Val’s version of the show !

      Hey, I saw what you posted at Westeros- can you edit that please? It was my own sources who confirmed this, NOT HBO. If it was officially HBO, I would have said so.

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    5. spacechampion,

      Lol! Amalgamation is the name of the game here! This is a total Sullied tease! Although I must admit that the image I have had in my head for Val is very similar to this woman.

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    6. Don’t understand the love for Val. She’s completely superfluous and not particularly interesting.

      Very curious to see how far along we got in Jon’s storyline, and how much depth we’ll see in the S5 portrayal of the wildlings.

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    7. Not Val, huh? Pity, she’d make a great Val…

      I’m curious. Named spearwives in the books are few and far between, and tend to have limited screentime. Would an actress of Sørensen’s stature agree to be in only a few episodes?

      We’ll find out. Could be another invented character/amalgamation of notable wildings from the book, I agree.

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    8. Nailed it! (thanks for the shout out WotW)

      Could she shoot GoT at the same time as the HBO rock show? I wonder

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    9. Sorry to skip back to the latest “invitation to the set”… but the riders coming into the (I assume) Winterfell set… the second one on the right has someone riding BEHIND them on their horse. A little helmet sticking out. They’re very hidden.

      FArya? Robin? I feel like it’s fArya, someone hidden to be revealed! Remember Arya in her little helmet in the first episode? Throback of cuteness! Can someone at least confirm I’m not crazy, that there’s at least a rather small person riding piggyback coming to Winterfell from the Vale? Around the 3rd second.

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    10. Dnis: Don’t understand the love for Val. She’s completely superfluous and not particularly interesting.

      There is always some degree of arbitrariness about what we find interesting. For myself, I did find Val interesting, and the “fan-boy” in me was hoping that they might keep her simply because the dynamic between her and Jon is quite amusing.

      I suspect that Val considers herself to have been “stolen” by Jon when Jon capture Val, Dalla & Mance Jr., and for all of her flirting and innuendo, Jon doesn’t get it.

      However, the cold rationalist in me realizes that this would be tough for a couple of reasons. One, it is too soon after Ygritte: and had I read this stuff shortly after I read about Ygritte & Jon (instead of over a decade later: I was over it by then), then it might not have worked for me in the book, either. This is more true on TV because they did such an outstanding job with Ygritte’s ending.

      Two, after we factor in that it’s too soon after Ygritte to use Val realistically as a femme fatale, Val simply does not add anything to Jon’s story. Given how cluttered the narrative already is, I have to (sadly!) acknowledge that this is a good cut.

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    11. Something I thought interesting to note: Reading through her resume as listed on her Management’s page for her, Game of Thrones is not listed. Any management company would add a credit like that to the actor’s page immediately, unless they were specifically directed not to do so. That both makes me wonder what other actors are out there we don’t know about, and reminds me we don’t know everyone who’s been cast/will appear this season, and it really excites me.

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    12. This is going to just be like the Locke situation. A new character who replaces pivotal scenes of some other characters. This makes me wonder though maybe characters like Euron or Victarion could even be cast for one episode and we wont know it till the show airs. I mean we barely know Kevan is back. Someone like Euron would only be in maybe one scene in an indoor set where hes impossible to spot. Same with LSH. There is still hope.

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    13. Thanks guys. I don’t think the feminine clothing rules out either Sweetrobin OR Merry Brandybuck though… 🙂

      Whoever that is… it’s a potential “new plaything” methinks…

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    14. Never understood the Val love. She just seems so fake, like when you see the elves in LotR and are like “where’d they get conditioner in Middle Earth?” Val is described as knock-out gorgeous, adventurous, and wise. Ygritte is a much more believable wildling woman–messy hair, naive about the world beyond the wall. Val feels like a character from a bad fanfic, and I really hope she isn’t in. I’d love to see more female wildling leaders, though!

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    15. Whoever she is it’s not some small thing. I don’t think they’d focus on her like that in a trailer if she was some random extra who would see 10 seconds of air time.

      I think she’s probably at Hardhome already, and escapes, and probably winds up an important ally of Jon Snow in convincing the Wildlings to head back to Castle Black with him. Which to be honest, essentially borders on when Val convinces Tormund and his Wildlings to go to Jon. Not the same obviously, but similar. So I could definitely see this character taking the “Val” role just not in name. Which will be head scratching. If you’re going to have a Val like character why not just have Val? But it is what it is sometimes with David and Dan.

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    16. Sorry, long night shift, bored.

      Game of Thrones Season 5: Artisan Piece #2
      At 1:03… did anyone ever decide who is the person sitting on the couch in the middle?

      Not one of the sand snakes – for two their hair is too short, one their hair is too long.
      Not Jaimie or Bronn, unless Bronn lost his mullet thing.
      How the heck the Trystane actor would pull off that haircut, I dunno.
      The hair doesn’t even feel Dornish….

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    17. Crabber’s Son,

      Stop, please STOP with LSH. She’s never gonna make it to the series. D&D even confirm it on the bunch of interviews they made for Entertainment Weekly last week. Really, can someone please explain to me what’s the obsession with LSH? She had only two scenes so far, and add nothing to the story. Red priests resurrecting people? Thoros and Beric. Undead people on the world of ASoIaF? wights. Needed someone who’s just wandering around, but still a badass character, to lead the Brotherhood? The Blackfish. The only thing GRRM did by bring this character to “life”, was completely kill the shock of the Red Wedding, and even he regrets doing that.

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    18. Wimsey: There is always some degree of arbitrariness about what we find interesting.

      This, of course, is true. On my personal scale, Val is about level with Darkstar and the Kettleblacks and below the likes of Gyles Rosby, and I don’t hear much wailing and gnashing of teeth about their apparent omission from the show.

      To your other point, I read all the books in a row (Book 5 came out 2 weeks after I finished Book 4; great timing on my part), so I wasn’t especially eager for another Jon-wildling romance.

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    19. I’m betting it’s basically Val who accomplishes what she does concerning wildling politics, but doesn’t have her name so that fans don’t go crazy over whether she has sexual tension with Snow.

      She does seem like too big an actress just to be a glorified extra, but then again maybe this is a Mark Gatiss situation where she’s a fan who’s willing to play a small role where an actor with charisma is really necessary.

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    20. She’s also on the new Pitch Perfect movie right? Even big names want to be a part of this, like AAA but this hardly seems like a minor character.

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    21. Morgan,

      Thanks, something about the way “Trystane” is sitting seems crippled to me, got distracted. Or maybe it’s a stand-in for Doran’s actor, something seems a bit off… but the outfit is the right one… sigh. Still bored.

      There’s a new version of the Asian video on Youtube GOT it has a couple of seconds of dragon chains footage – I think that’s the only difference…

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    22. They needed some different Wildling leaders for Hardhome, she might be one of them (nice to mix it up and have one be a woman given the inclusiveness of the Free Folk). It appears the evacuation of Hardhome will involve the women and children trying to be taken to the boats first before all hell breaks loose so she could also just be a featured one of the rescued women.

      For those stating that “glimpse in trailer”=”increased importance”, history has shown that there isn’t really any precedence for this. She may or may not be someone who has a role bigger than a few lines but we’ve seen enough random prostitutes, pit fighters, slavers etc in trailers to know that this is no indication of that.

      Sometimes scenes are used in trailers because the editors like the shot, the pacing or the conveyance of some kind of atmosphere or emotion. Outside of the main characters, there isn’t a quota for “make sure we only show people who are important”.

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    23. Also, I like looking at good looking women on television as much as the next guy, but Val is a completely unnecessary character and would serve no purpose on the show which is why she was an easy cut to make.

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    24. I couldn’t help it. Val is extremely…. challenging. How long I spent stealing her? Put it this way, who needs one of those fancy time-pieces Up North? Unless one had ‘loads of time left before next Wight raid’ or ‘Time’s run out! GO!’…. Honestly. Would you be able to tell time, like when is the hour of the wolf? It’s either day ols night.

      Anyhow! Val sends her regards and confesses she’d rather be with me as I stole her fair and all that. Oh, she asks, ‘What’s television? Some new fangled Sothron doobrie, eh?’ We’re doing what we’re meant….. She’s a bit…. er… demanding, like. She wants it… again.

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    25. Jesterr223457:
      Thomas,

      Agree,LSH was a terrible plot choice and character . It ruined the RW from the books to me .

      Agree. If someone is resurrected in any story, there needs to be a damn good reason for it and so far I can not see how her resurrection will lead to a more powerful and important story telling moment than her initial death already was. Same with the other alleged resurrection moment, almost hoping that really was the end for that particular character (it is not of course, the prologue is too obvious).

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    26. What I love about this is that wildlings are finally getting a human face. In Jon’s first few ASOS chapters, he meets the wildlings as he does in the show, but there he meets Mance’s wholly family and many others. In the show, except for Ygritte, all of the named wildling characters have been male and either intimidating our outright antagonistic at least in some way. So it’s nice to have a variety of Free Folk in the show who seem to be… just people. Men and women of all ages (with names and speaking roles, according to the casting calls!), worried about their survival and that’s about it.

      And Hardhome is the perfect place to introduce this complexity, since it’s where the wildlings are in the most precarious situation.

      Lady Wolfsbane,

      A child seems to be riding with the third rider, yes. Good catch!

      Also notice the large amounts of blood in the white horse. These Bolton soldiers have been recently in battle.

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    27. Could it be her on the ground instead of Selyse, or was that definitely Selyse? They look kinda similar. Sorry I haven’t got very sight and it makes sense right?

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    28. Yivo,

      That, and the fact that some people were shipping her with Jon Snow for the ending. Though with the TV show’s cut of her, it seems much less likely. I agree that I never found the appeal though.

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    29. LF and DS presenting SR in drag to Ramsay in a fArya scam is the funniest thing I’ve read in ages. All we need is a cut in the the next trailer with DS and LF in some darkened room and she’s saying to him, ‘are you sure this is going to work’ and it’ll be confirmed! Seriously though, they could conceivably be scamming Ramsay with an as yet unknown fArya, recruited from the Vale, as part of a revenge plot.

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    30. Heh. Not really relevant, but my Danish relatives are also called Sørensen. I’m probably not related to her though, there’s like a million people in Denmark with that surname.

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    31. She was actually one of the actresses I always saw playing Val. Not that I’m very fond of the character though, she’s a bit flat. I wonder what role she may be playing.

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    32. King Tommen:
      Also, I like looking at good looking women on television as much as the next guy, but Val is a completely unnecessary character and would serve no purpose on the show which is why she was an easy cut to make.

      I have been saying this in bookthreads for years. All those people who think she and Jon are the ultimate endgame in the series are just deluding themselves (most of those people hate Daenerys in some capacity, if you catch my drift)

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    33. I liked Val a lot in the books, but I’d hardly call her critical to the plot. I’d much rather see a female wildling leader in the show.

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    34. I don’t know, I rather liked Val. She didn’t get up my nose to the degree the “earthy” Ygritte did in the books, although the show version was far better. Maybe because she didn’t have a catchphrase to repeat every other page.
      If Val were in the show she would be a far better candidate for the “strong, independent woman who don’t need no man” position they seem to be trying to shape other, far less fitting characters into.

      LSH..it’s appearance in the epilogue was a jaw-dropper. Would have been a brilliant moment for the show, but that boat has sailed.
      I can understand why the fans of the character are annoyed though, Season 4 seemed positively dripping with foreshadowing, they knew the character was looked forward to, and even Lena Headey got in on teasing the fans. They then spent the best part of the year being coy only now to say “Nah, have a few love scenes between Missandei and a man with no knackers instead.”. For the record, I think if they thought LSH and a number of other things like the Greyjoys and Griffs just didn’t fit, then that’s fair enough. But they have a pretty poor record with their own invented characters and scenes to replace them.

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    35. Fall_Of_Byzantium: Season 4 seemed positively dripping with foreshadowing

      Like what. There was a single Catelyn mention the whole season as far as I remember.

      Honestly, all people were really going off of was the Lena Headey tweet, and the books. Neither of which were particularly reliable.

      In any case, Lady Stoneheart was bloody awful. Shocking twist of the worst kind, and then she did nothing. It’s obvious George didn’t know what to do with her. Best decision Benioff and Weiss ever made far as I’m concerned.

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    36. Also, people love to bring up the Grey Worm -Missendei scenes whenever they talk about cuts. But the season would have just been 3 scenes shorter without them, they would’t have gone “oh well, had to take that stuff out, better include Coldhands now!”

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    37. Val is lame, like someone upthread said, she reads like a bad fanfic version of Ygritte, so I’m really glad she’s cut. Don’t understand being a fan of the character any more than I understand being a fan of say, Dorkstar.

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    38. Yivo,

      You’ve a poor memory then, I’m afraid. First scene Sansa was in had her mention her mothers death and the disposal of her body in Episode One for starters.

      And even including Coldhands, a character whose strong fanbase is as perplexing almost as much as that of Strong Belwas, in three scenes makes more logical sense than an invented romance subplot involving a man with no testicles. It’s so daft it sounds like the beginning of a bad joke.

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    39. Queenofthrones,

      One man’s trash, as the saying goes. I was sorry Viserys died even in the books because his sister annoyed seven shades out of me.
      Try reading all Darkstar’s lines in a very sarcastic voice, and the character works as a very embittered and angry person. I can think of half a dozen British actors who could have played that part onscreen so well American girls would have broken Tumblr over him.

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    40. Hodor Targaryen:
      I’m betting it’s basically Val who accomplishes what she does concerning wildling politics, but doesn’t have her name so that fans don’t go crazy over whether she has sexual tension with Snow.

      Fans going crazy over such things is exactly what the show runners want.

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    41. King Tommen:
      For those stating that “glimpse in trailer”=”increased importance”, history has shown that there isn’t really any precedence for this. She may or may not be someone who has a role bigger than a few lines but we’ve seen enough random prostitutes, pit fighters, slavers etc in trailers to know that this is no indication of that.

      Like that dude who sold horses to the Night’s Watch.

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    42. My random end game predictions (show and books) . John and khaleesi have a baby , john stark is king there child is the heir and everyone in the realm is happy about it .Briene is leader of kings guard , Jaime kills a dragon than being named the dragon slayer. ( goes in the book and is the most popular kingsguard that ever live ) Hound kills moutain in clegange bowl . Hound bangs Sansa . Sansa has hounds child . Tyrions finds out after the fact and is cool with it . Dany is the princess that was promised , Jon is azor ahai. Tyrion Jon and dany are all blood relatives , that makes them the three heads of the dragon , but there will be more dragons in the winter fell crypts . Several will die but Jon dany and Tyrion will all have there own dragon. Not the three in meereen right now . Just drogon lives. Everyone else will die . The wall will be obliverated kings landing will be obliverated . The new capital of the seven kingdoms will be in dorne .

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    43. Fall_Of_Byzantium: You’ve a poor memory then, I’m afraid. First scene Sansa was in had her mention her mothers death and the disposal of her body in Episode One for starters.

      And you have poor reading comprehension skills, I’m afraid. I said she WAS mentioned once. The Sansa scene I referred to when I was saying Catelyn was mentioned once.

      That said, I was wrong. She was mentioned a couple of other other times were when Lysa and Littlefinger brought her up, but that had nothing to do with her death or her being dumped in the river. Even so, saying the season was “positively dripping with foreshadowing” for LS is frankly horseshit.

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    44. Yivo:
      I’ve never understood the Val love. Is it mostly because she’s meant to be hot?

      that and Jon’s ship even though he swore a vow, people!

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    45. BrightroarsBane:
      I just don’t need wildlings looking like they stepped out of a shampoo commercial.

      I wish Kit wouldn’t be so method and use some damn shamp & conditioner. His hair is disgusting, but that won’t stop the red woman from breaking off a piece.

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    46. Yivo: Like what. There was a single Catelyn mention the whole season as far as I remember.

      There were 3 or 4. Sansa & Brienne gave shout outs.

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    47. Rygritte,

      And the drowned corpse in the Riverlands with what looked like a rope around it’s neck. As I said, I can understand the fans of the character feeling like they were trolled a bit.

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    48. Jesterr223457:
      Fall_Of_Byzantium,

      The only jawdropping thing with the epilogue was how Martin seemed to lose the story by resorting to comic book ressurection crap to bring some cheap shock value to a book that didn’t need it because it was already full of shock twists in it . After the shock value was used and he had to integrate her into the story then it was clear that he didn’t know what to do seeing as she barely appears in the next two books .

      That’s because she, as well as the BwB are primarily working underground. She’s not mentioned often, but there’s plenty of evidence to suggest that Martin isn’t just dropping her. Take for example that she somehow came about Robb’s crown when Brienne met up with her, when it was last seen in Frey hands at Riverrun. Where we know that Tom Sevenstrings is stationed.. It’s a part of Feast that I like most, the seemingly random references and things you don’t see at first glance but become apparant on rereads.

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    49. Greenjones,

      Yeap. He’s an extra, as he has been previously. He will probably not be featured in any way, just as he wasn’t before, let alone given any lines. Others have been unknowns, so we added them just in case. And I might have been a bit overzealous a couple of times there (like adding wight extras.)

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    50. Luka Nieto,

      Isn’t this the guy who says “the cheese will be served after the cake” to Olenna in “Dark Wings, Dark Words”? And Olenna replies: “The cheese will be served when I want it served, and I want it served NOW!”

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    51. I wrote it in another post, but I think Birgitte Hjort Sørensen will play a female wildling warrior, kind of like ygritte, but even more volatile, violent and snappy. She will appear at Hardhome. Jon and NW go there to negotiate with wildlings, he notices her, who speaks freely and kind of antagonises the nights watch, which finds jons interest. They flirt doing his stay there, and so when the big fight happens, we have another familiar face in the battle. I’m sure she’s a great fighter, and I’m interested in seing how they differentiate her from Ygritte. I mean, why cast such a beautiful, well established actress, if not for having her be a love interest for Jon. If she was more like a Harma Dogshead kinda character, they would have cast a big ugly woman with a huge axe or something, but Birigtte is stunning! And being a wildling, she needs to be a fighter too. Ygritte was beatiful and Ygritte was a fighter, so to make her different from her, which of course DD realises is nessesary, what would they do? The most logic solution for me is too make her even wilder, bordering on psychotic, which could be amazing. Then when shit happens she shows her worth and saves nights watch members.

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    52. Dutch maester,

      Dunno. That’s season 3. In IMDB he’s only credited for seasons 4 (a Tyrell guest at the Purple wedding) and now season 5.

      Damphairintheshowplease!,

      Based on Kit Harrington’s comments about Jon Snow being purely focused on his duty and his role as a man of the Night’s Watch after Ygritte’s death, I doubt he’ll have any love interest at all in the near future. Melisandre will try and seduce him, of course, and I suspect (based on that trailer shot of a half-naked Melisandre and of an interview with Kit in the EW issue) it will be even more blatant in the show, but I’m pretty sure he’ll reject her.

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    53. Jesterr223457,

      That was probably one of my favorite scenes in the books. I read it and basically had to go right to the store to get affc. Albeit it was sort of disappointing that LSH wont be really relevant till TWOW. The character is like something from a greek tragedy, she is the most tragic figure in all of GOT. Her death wasnt cheapened, she now has a fate worse than death. She has no traces of her humanity she is simply the real incarnation of the story of the rat cook and what happens when someone violates guest right. Im sure there are endless future plot threads for the character

      forcing jaime and brienne to fight to the death, meeting one of her children, possibly being killed by Arya/the gift of mercy, taking revenge on Walder Frey. I rather see an undead curse kill Frey than The Blackfish.

      The character being thrown in at the end of storm of swords was sort of a cheap way to get a shock though. GRRM could have waited longer to reveal her which is possibly what the show could do.

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    54. Luka Nieto,

      Okay, I never saw Kits comment regarding that. I guess it makes sense, that he would be focused on his duty. So why cast such a beautiful actress? Hardhome is at the end of the season, so to me it makes sense, that he be dutyminded in the first half, reject melisandre, only to be fascinated by another wildling when he goes to Hardhome. But yeah, if not a love interest, she could just be a harma kind of thing. A female wildling leader, and they just cast a beatiful actress, because she also happens to be a great actor. A pretty, young Harma Dogshead would something, woundnt it?

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    55. Queenofthrones,

      I absolutely enjoy it when an author introduces a minor character and has them do interesting things that only the reader can fully imagine. I’m sure I’m not alone in that respect. Like when Jon sent Val on that crazy ADwD mission to fetch Tormund and the Thenn army. Given the conditions she faced, the distance she covered and the sheer determination necessary to make it happen, it was indeed an amazing feat that she succeeded. That shit mattered in the woeful wildling cause, and Jon’s lofty goals.

      I respect when an author challenges the reader to fill in the details. Even though I would love to have an actual short story of Val’s understated adventure, the mystery and allure of the character increases many-fold without the extra detail. Val is beast-mode, another strong Asha-like figure, a worthy female wildling representative to further challenge Jon, and possibly shed more details about the far north, or possibly cause even more chaos. Perhaps GRRM painted her as a blond goddess to satisfy his own inner fantasies, but that certainly shouldn’t distract from her actions. Her worldwise presence in the tale almost single-handedly screams that the wildlings are worth saving and reconsidering.

      Oh well, I like the minor book-only stuff that has a possibility to blossom and grow in the reader’s mind (like Thoros/BwB, BF, Darkstar, Tycho, Umber, fPate, Brown Ben, Penny, etc)…it makes for a more robust story. I don’t expect any of her tale to be adapted but a few supporting scenes with a kick-ass female wildling (to further the Ygritte metaphor) would serve as an olive branch to the many who treasure this stuff.

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    56. Fall_Of_Byzantium,
      How mature of you.

      And the drowned corpse in the Riverlands with what looked like a rope around it’s neck. As I said, I can understand the fans of the character feeling like they were trolled a bit.

      That was always a big stretch. Fans of the character weren’t being trolled, they were letting their imaginations run wild.

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    57. Luka Nieto,

      So based on that seven word comment, you assume I believe that beatufull actresses should only be cast as love interests. I can see how my words could lead you to think that, but I still find it quite insulting and judgmental of you to go ahead and assume that. I am simply brainstorming and trying to find hints in former casting decisions that could lead us to specualte on who she might play. If the show casts a love interest for one of the protagonists, that person is always somewhat beatiful. Its not something I am saying is a good thing (I greatly prefer Ygrittes psysical description from the books) but its just what the shows history tell us. I am looking at the possibilities we have for Birgitte Hjort Sørensen, which, other than a completely invented character (which she probably just is), is either an amalgation of Harma, Mother Mole or Val… Now, Harma is big and brutish. Mother Mole is an old woman. Is it so really so weird, that I would take one of the only clear hints we have of her character right now, being her beauty, and based on that choosing the Val-amalgamation of those three possibilties?

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    58. Damphairintheshowplease!,

      Sorry to offend. I just found it a baffling assumption. There are many beautiful actors and actresses in this show, and not many of them are there to play a love interest.

      Yivo,

      I mean… these people know Cat had just died, right? Like 2 episodes before Season 4 started. What did they expect? People not to mention her? Ned is still mentioned almost every episode, directly or indirectly. Is he coming back to life too?

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    59. Carne:
      Greenjones,

      He’s an extra, but yeah, gives us an idea of which locations we’ll get at least. He also has “Thenn Wight” on his resume.

      If this guy was used as an extra for so many different characters, I find it very likely that the dude playing Daeron in s1 is back. I still say the black brother carried by Birgitte at Hardhomme is the same actor/extra cast as Daeron in s1.

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    60. Luka Nieto,

      None taken. And I agree, it could look like that, I just thought we were talking about the show, I wasnt really focused on how my comments would sound, I’m not really used to internet debates. Yeah I know theres many beatuful actresses that are not love interests, but I was just thinking, you know, Jon is at hardhome, theres a stunning, talented actor there (not just an extra), and it made me think that she might be some kind of Val. And Val is, among other things, a love interest to Jon. But yeah, she could easily just be a notorious female, wildling leader who takes part in negotations and in the battle.

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    61. Im relation to Birgitte Hjort Sørensen being cast in a seemingly short role, and adewale akinnuoye-agbaje being cast in a similar small but, I assume, impactful role. I would like to round up the times this has happened in the shows four seasons. Right now I can only think of Burn Gorman as Karl Tanner. It was not a huge, long lasting role, but the legend of Gin Alle was a minor antagonist in a few episodes for some of our protagonists, so they needed him to make an impression, and so they cast a well established actor and he knocked it out of the park (in my opinion). I love that they do this, it adds to the overall amazing quality of the cast. I’m sure there are others.

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    62. Patchface: I find it very likely that the dude playing Daeron in s1 is back.I still say the black brother carried by Birgitte at Hardhomme is the same actor/extra cast as Daeron in s1.

      I suspect Daeron will be back, especially since the only shots of him are standing next to Jon and Sam, however, I think the guy in the trailer is Varamyr since he is injured and looks old with the hair and hunched back. We know he was cast, and if I recall correctly, mostly had book scenes with a female Wildling.

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    63. Yivo,

      I don’t get it either. She falls into the same category as the Sand Snakes for me. Potential for a good character but nothing has happened yet. Like them, I also think that the idea of a ‘badass’ (learning to hate that word) female warrior-type gets peoples juices flowing despite them not actually having any discernable character. Never understood why Asha/Yara doesn’t have more of a following as she suits the archetype and has had her character built up and fleshed out. Perhaps because Gemma Whelan isn’t “hot”? ( although I think she’s certainly an attractive girl).

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    64. Rygritte,

      That’s not the same thing as foreshadowing her return. She was mentioned because she’s important to the characters who mentioned her. It would be bizarre if they didn’t

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    65. Yivo,

      Exactly! Catelyn had just died. She was a major character who had just died in the show’s most shocking scene ever, and some of her loved ones (and enemies) survived her. It would be weird if they didn’t mention her! Again, I ask: is Ned being alluded to almost every episode foreshadowing anything? Is he coming back to life?! No, it just means he was a crucial character whose life and death had deep and continuing repercussions in the story. The same goes for Cat.

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    66. Yivo,

      It was the actual language they used, specifically what they did to her and something Brienne said. They could have easily left that out if they intended not to go there. Before the mentions, I thought she was probably cut and her specific fate wouldn’t be mentioned…just that she was dead, like so dead. Perhaps it was just a nod to book fans.

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    67. Rygritte,

      All Brienne said was that she swore to Arya’s mother she would get her to safety, but that was directly relevant because she was trying to get Arya to trust her. She may have also said it to Jaime, which again, was directly relevant to the situation.

      All that really leaves you with is the Sansa scene. And I fail to see how describing how Catelyn died and how her body was disposed of constitutes heavy foreshadowing of her resurrection. They probably wanted a reminder for the audience of the atrocities committed by the Lannisters and Freys, considering she was talking to Tyrion during the scene.

      Fact is that fans were largely convinced it would be in because a) It was in the books b) They really liked it and c) Lena Headey’s photo. The show did almost nothing to support it.

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    68. Patchface,

      Don’t really see the point of an in depth Tower of Joy flashback. Perhaps Ned with Lyanna but there’s no point in having the fight as no one knows the importance or relevance of the characters involved. Think it’s better done with dialogue.

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    69. What annoys me about Val being cut from the show is it provides some evidence for people who subscribe to one of my least favorite theories about the story. And that’s Jon and Dany getting together. If it doesn’t happen with Val in the books, then I get it. I get why they cut her. They’re going to stretch Jon Snow’s love and feeling for Ygritte out until Dany arrives. Probably even see this, this season with Melisandre I bet. She’ll be flirting hard, and he’ll tell her to take a walk. Since it seems they are cutting the other parts of Val’s story, her only purpose in the show would then be to also flirts hard and be rebuffed by Jon. But they don’t need that with Melisandre there. But no Val confirms that some of the theories about her and Jon are wrong. No forthcoming love story there, no forthcoming new Night’s King and Queen there.

      If it is going to be Jon and Dany I can see why the show decides to do this. No interaction with any other female other than in a formal sense for Jon Snow. This isn’t possible when you bring Val into the equation. So, bleh.

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    70. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I agree, but that would require introducing a new character and I doubt they will cast the leader of the frogeaters, the only one who could relate the story.

      If ToJ is explained it will prolly be via weirwood, don’t forget Bran must do something in s6.

      I disagree with you on the importance of the ToJ scene, I think it is essential in explaining someone’s parentage.

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    71. Blind Beth:
      I liked Val a lot in the books, but I’d hardly call her critical to the plot.I’d much rather see a female wildling leader in the show.

      This! I do like her role in the books, specially her conversations with Jon (which give us the readers a glimpse of how he feels and thinks about issues from a different perspectiv than what we see with any other of his interactions).
      But I agree with you, not having her will not affect the story that much.

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    72. Breaking news! Daario Naharis will spin knives!

      This Daily News calendar seemed too good to be true. Apparently they used their juiciest anecdote in the first day —a character dying in the show who hasn’t died yet in the books. The next three reports have been… considerably less exciting. Hopefully there’s something good down the road —to be fair, they have 26 opportunities left.

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    73. Dom,

      I think a big part of Val’s character was to foreshadow

      Jon and Dany thats why she has blonde hair which looks silver in the moonlight or something and Jon is attracted to her character
      “A warrior princess, he decided, not some willowy creature who sits up in a tower, brushing her hair and waiting for some knight to rescue her?

      She has some character traits similar to Dany. I think Jon and Dany will have a R+L type of romance it will be intense, short, and end in tragedy. Both of them will probably not survive the story. Maybe only their heir will make it. Jon is ice and Dany is Fire they either have to fight to the death or get together.

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    74. Dom,

      I don’t even ship Jon/Dany but Val (so far) is a nothing character. It makes zero sense to ship her with Jon long term, books or show. They could bang, like Dany and Daario bang. Doesn’t mean they’re gonna get married any more than Dany and Daario.

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    75. To be perfectly frank, from the instant Val was mentioned an immediate dislike of the character was felt. Perhaps it had something to do with the way she talked about Shireen, a very sympathetic character. It’s a good thing she’s cut and the show is better off without her.

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    76. Lars,

      How exactly is Val a Mary Sue though? She doesn’t really fit many of the descriptors of a classic Mary Sue. She most certainly isn’t a self-insert, the major quality of an alleged Mary Sue. She doesn’t have a ridiculous array of superpowers or purple hair. Basically she’s a female character. People have a tendency to call female characters that they don’t like Mary Sues without the character actually fitting the description of a Mary Sue.

      And the concept is a bit bullshit to begin with. Someone once said (more eloquently than I’m paraphrasing) that if you lay down a description of a typical Mary Sue, the type of female character people want to dismiss as one, and then switched the gender to male, you’d basically have Batman or any other famous male character who is considered totally awesome.

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    77. Sue the Fury,

      I wanted to say all of that (including the Batman bit!), but I feared the ensuing discussion. But now you’ve said it, so I’ll just agree: the “Mary Sue” criticism is often thrown at any woman who is semi-competent, while it’s rarely used for the many male power fantasies around us. That said, I don’t like Val very much, but that’s another discussion altogether. She’s certainly not a Mary Sue.

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    78. Luka Nieto,

      Exactly, with Mel all up in Jon’s business, there will be no time for a Val sideplot. Plus it’s too soon after Ygritte.

      I hope she’s a badass warrior beauty!

      and please no more LSH talk y’all… it’s over… just stop…

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    79. Patchface,

      There are some of us who think he has already been introduced or will have been after this season! There’s less corny delivery systems than a flashback. The Tower of Joy itself has no releavance only the information about what went on between Lyanna and Ned.

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    80. TheTouchOfFrost,

      You don’t believe the High Sparrow is Howland Reed, right? It makes absolutely no sense. Different gods, different ages, different everything —you can make any excuses you like but, if you excuse the numerous discrepancies so freely, the High Sparrow can be anyone —any adult male character who’s not been in the story for a while. It’d be an incredibly cheesy plot-point and a way too convoluted way for Howland to get his revenge. It’s just a crackpot theory. Not more believable than Euron = Daario.

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    81. Sue the Fury:
      Lars,

      How exactly is Val a Mary Sue though? She doesn’t really fit many of the descriptors of a classic Mary Sue. She most certainly isn’t a self-insert, the major quality of an alleged Mary Sue. She doesn’t have a ridiculous array of superpowers or purple hair. Basically she’s a female character. People have a tendency to call female characters that they don’t like Mary Sues without the character actually fitting the description of a Mary Sue.

      And the concept is a bit bullshit to begin with. Someone once said (more eloquently than I’m paraphrasing) that if you lay down a description of a typical Mary Sue, the type of female character people want to dismiss as one, and then switched the gender to male, you’d basically have Batman or any other famous male character who is considered totally awesome.

      According to wikipedia :), a “Mary Sue” is: “an idealized character, often but not necessarily an author insert and/or wish-fulfillment.”

      So how is she a “Mary Sue”? How about being great at everything? Beautiful, smart, tough as nails. The ONLY negative attribute she might have is her reaction to the grayscale disease. (and GRRM might even validate that opinion in a future book!)

      And the reason it does stand out is that GRRM’s male characters usually have some kind of deep character flaw and/or a physical handicap. I would have the same reaction to a “super awesome at everything” male character. Perfect or ideal characters are boring. Superman being a prime example.

      Luka Nieto:
      Sue the Fury,

      I wanted to say all of that (including the Batman bit!), but I feared the ensuing discussion. But now you’ve said it, so I’ll just agree: the “Mary Sue” criticism is often thrown at any woman who is semi-competent, while it’s rarely used for the many male power fantasies around us. That said, I don’t like Val very much, but that’s another discussion altogether. She’s certainly not a Mary Sue.

      Oh, I’d say that Val is SLIGHTLY more than “semi-competent”, wouldn’t you say? She excels at everything. And looks great doing it too! 😉

      Clearly I touched a nerve here – I thought I was stating the obvious. But I guess not.

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    82. Hodor’s Bastard: I absolutely enjoy it when an author introduces a minor character and has them do interesting things that only the reader can fully imagine. …. I respect when an author challenges the reader to fill in the details.

      I really doubt that authors are doing this. We obviously do not have a huge sample size here, but Tolkien and Rowling both expressed surprise and even dismay about how much fans wondered about minor characters and goings on. They weren’t throwing Vals out there for the readers’ mental rumination: they were tossing the Vals out there because their tales needed minor characters and minor plot details to get the stories and plots where they needed to be.

      Tolkien openly stated that he wished that his fans would pay more attention to the story and the themes than to the small details (this coming after he got a letter asking for botanical details in some part of Middle earth, if I reac. Rowling has been more polite, but she has commented a couple of times that fans ask her questions and she has no idea to what they even are referring! Fans think that she has complete biographies and histories for all the characters and places, but she doesn’t. (Rowling also claims that she once got on a Harry Potter group and tried starting threads about what was happening with the books, but that nobody seemed very interested in what she wanted to discuss!)

      To this end, I really doubt that GRRM was thinking: “well, I’ll let the readers start imagining what they want about Val.” On the contrary, he probably presented what he has needed to present for the sake of Jon’s story and for the plotlines at the Wall, and he probably has not though much more about her beyond what has been (and what will be) important. I doubt that he’d be quite as rude as Tolkien was (although to be fair, Tolkien was grousing in a letter to a friend: what Rowling or Martin say in private might be just as snarky), but he might very well say “that’s great and all, but it’s not that important, either.”

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    83. Lars: Clearly I touched a nerve here – I thought I was stating the obvious. But I guess not.

      No, none of it is obvious because none of that is in the books, and most of us probably are not reading between the same lines as you are. Val hardly excels at everything: indeed, she doesn’t seem to excel at anything, really. She’s certainly a strong-willed, fiercely independent and seemingly fairly intelligent woman. She also is very charismatic, which more or less follows from the last three traits. She gets singled out for attention because the Westerosians (as people are wont to do) project their cultural system onto hers, and in their minds she must be a princess if her sister was wife to a king. Because, well, d’uh, right?

      However, Val displays no special talents or knowledge. Really, the closest she does to anything “special” is find Tormund: but, then, given that she probably had a very good idea where Tormund was, that isn’t all that “special.” (Val probably was privy to contingency plans given that she was with Dalla so often, and given that Dalla was with Mance so often.) Jon uses her to his own ends, and there seems to be some mutual affection between the two (Jon certainly finds her attractive, and given who Jon is, it is not just for her looks; Val does seem to be pretty much asking Jon to steal her). But that hardly makes Val Wonder Woman: that’s just charismatic boy meeting charismatic girl.

      At any rate, I doubt that GRRM is projecting himself onto Westeros in Val’s frock. After all, that is a primary criterion of a Mary Sue. (And also part of what makes the whole thing so sexist, anyway: male authors have been projecting themselves onto a character per novel since Dicken’s day at least!)

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    84. TheTouchOfFrost: There’s less corny delivery systems than a flashback. The Tower of Joy itself has no releavance only the information about what went on between Lyanna and Ned.

      There is nothing “corny” about flashbacks. They can be a very effective narrative device. Moreover, there could be a lot more important stuff than just what went on between Lyanna and Ned: learning exactly what happened between Lyanna and Rhaegar could have huge implications on how the world perceives Jon.

      At any rate, the first rule of dramatic story-telling is show, don’t tell. If they are going to do something like this and if it is important to the development of characters or plots, then show it: it will stick much more in the audiences’ minds if they see Lyanna and see what was said than if it’s just recitation.

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    85. Wimsey,

      We have been disagreeing once or twice, but this one is on point. To add to that: I, like others here, find the whole Mary Sue idea a bit dumb. Not every strong, clever etc. femal character is a Mary Sue. Every character that an autor writes will have a little bit of him or her in it (good or bad things). Imo the whole thing startet even before Dickens or the novel itself (but I agree that it became prominent with it, simply because novels, in the modern sense of course, have a strong tendency to focus on characters), it’s inherent to story telling as a whole.

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    86. Wimsey,

      Nevertheless, my mind doth wander and extrapolate. As a mountaineer and hiker, I find Val’s tale up north quite interesting and something of value. Most likely it doesn’t change anything about Jon’s tale but something about GRRM’s very mature storytelling and inventive characterizations gets the my juices flowing. Ever thought about Tycho’s tale as well? A banker trudging through mountains of snow hundreds of miles to talk to Stannis? Not to mention BF’s great swimming adventure. You’re missing some great side escapes and quirky mental diversions, my friend.

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    87. Rygritte,

      I did not see the one year old girl! However, looking at picture you provided, there are two crows in the middle of the wildling group in front and one of them is looking towards Birgitte. The face is a bit blurry, but the crow looking towards them could be

      Jon Snow, or most likely Dolorous Edd

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    88. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Maybe you are right, but I think wierwood imagery has vast potential for storytelling, so ToJ looks tempting especially since Sean Bean has alluded to that and voluntarily offered to return.

      As to the lord of the bog devils, Luka Nieto has it right: that’s just a crackpot theory, less believable than E=D, Jojen paste and Q=AD. No way HR=HS!

      In fact, in the books there is a mention (by Barristan or by Jaime?) of a knight from the time of the Kingswood Brotherhood who is almost certain to be the HS by description. I don’t remember exactly where (I will look it up) and I could be confusing the story with the Elder Brother being a knight from the war of the Ninepenny Kings (from the Brienne chapter), but at some point I was fairly certain there was a correlation between HS and someone else, other than a mudeater.

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    89. Lars,

      I wasn’t talking specifically about Val. Of course she is more than ‘semi-competent’! I was saying that any woman who is more than eye candy becomes a “Mary Sue” to some people. “A woman warrior? Meh… a fantasy, just pandering!”

      Wimsey,

      Agreed!

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    90. Luka Nieto,

      How does it make no sense? I mean if you don’t like it or don’t think it’s likely then that’s cool but it’s certainly not that far flung. Prepare for a long (admittedly copy and pasted as saves me a lot of time writing!) theory!

      Election

      There is little we know of the current High Septon. The person who occupies the position of the High Septon is usually elected. However this High Septon seems to have got the position without any formal election process, just with the support of the sparrows.

      Qyburn’s whisperers claimed that Septon Luceon had been nine votes from elevation when those doors had given way, and the sparrows came pouring into the Great Sept with their leader on their shoulders and their axes in their hands.

      Anointing the King

      When Aegon the Conqueror first came to Westeros, the High Septon locked himself within the Starry Sept of Oldtown and prayed for seven days and seven nights. When he emerged from prayer, he anointed Aegon as the true King in Oldtown. This tradition of anointing the King by the High Septon was carried on since the days of Aegon the Conqueror. However, the new High Septon has not performed the ritual of blessing Tommen as the King. Much to Cersei’s discomfort. Even though this is merely a ritual, it is an important event in the eyes of the common people.

      “He feeds them, coddles them, blesses them. Yet will not bless the king.” The blessing was an empty ritual, she knew, but rituals and ceremonies had power in the eyes of the ignorant. Aegon the Conqueror himself had dated the start of his realm from the day the High Septon anointed him in Oldtown. (Cersei: AFFC)

      When Cersei asks the High Septon on why he failed to bless Tommen as King, he replies that ‘the hour is not yet ripe’.

      [Cersei] “..and yet you have refused to bless King Tommen.”

      [High Septon] “Your Grace is mistaken. We have not refused.”

      [Cersei] “You have not come.”

      “[High Septon]The hour is not yet ripe.” (Cersei: AFFC)

      Could the High Septon be waiting for the true King?

      It has been hard to figure the motivations of this character, who seems to have appeared out of nowhere. Is he working with Varys or another player?

      Who is this High Septon?

      When Cersei meets the High Septon, she describes him as a short man, thin as a broom handle (reed thin?), with a grey and brown beard that is closely trimmed and his hair tied in a knot. His face was sharply pointed, and his eyes as ‘brown as mud’.

      “He is cleaning the floor.” The speaker was shorter than the queen by several inches and as thin as a broom handle. “Work is a form of prayer, most pleasing to the Smith.” He stood, scrub brush in hand. “Your Grace. We have been expecting you.”

      The man’s beard was grey and brown and closely trimmed, his hair tied up in a hard knot behind his head. Though his robes were clean, they were frayed and patched as well. He had rolled his sleeves up his elbows as he scrubbed, but below the knees the cloth was soaked and sodden. His face was sharply pointed, with deep-set eyes as brown as mud. His feet are bare, she saw with dismay. They were hideous as well, hard and horny things, thick with callus. “You are His High Holiness?” (Cersei: AFFC)

      When Brienne heads to Duskendale from Rosby, she meets a septon who has a similar description to the High Septon. This man asks Brienne and her companions to join the sparrows headed to King’s Landing

      The septon had a lean sharp face and a short beard, grizzled grey and brown. His thin hair was pulled back and knotted behind his head, and his feet were bare and black, gnarled and hard as tree roots. (Brienne: AFFC)

      The physical description of the High Septon reminds me of crannogmen. When Bran meets Meera and Jojen in Winterfell he notices how the Reeds were short of stature. Meera is short, slim, and has her brown hair knotted behind her.

      As the newcomers walked the length of the hall, Bran saw that one was indeed a girl [Meera], though he would never have known it by her dress. She wore lambskin breeches soft with long use, and a sleeveless jerkin armored in bronze scales. Though near Robb’s age, she was slim as a boy, with long brown hair knotted behind her head and only the barest suggestion of breasts.

      Her brother was several years younger and bore no weapons. All his garb was green, even to the leather of his boots, and when he came closer Bran saw that his eyes were the color of moss, though his teeth looked as white as anyone else’s. Both Reeds were slight of build, slender as swords and scarcely taller than Bran himself. (Bran: ACOK)

      Taena Merryweather tells Cersei that the High Septon was born with filth beneath his fingernails. If he were born in the swampy marshes of the Neck that would not be surprising. Could the High Septon be a crannogman, one we already know?

      [Taena] “My lord husband tells me this new one was born with filth beneath his fingernails.” (Cersei: AFFC)

      Motives

      When the High Septon meets Cersei, she complains about the filth at the Great Sept of Baelor due to the sparrows. Surprisingly, the High Septon tells Cersei that the stains of Ned Stark’s execution could never be cleansed off the Great Sept of Baelor, even if the dirt and grime brought by the sparrows could be washed away.

      They are common, we agree on that much. “Have you seen what they have done to Blessed Baelor’s statue? They befoul the plaza with their pigs and goats and night soil.”

      “Night soil can be washed away more easily than blood, Your Grace. If the plaza was befouled, it was befouled by the execution that was done here.”

      He dares throw Ned Stark in my face? “We all regret that. Joffrey was young, and not as wise as he might have been. Lord Stark should have been beheaded elsewhere, out of respect for Blessed Baelor… but the man was a traitor, let us not forget.”

      “King Baelor forgave those who conspired against him.” (Cersei: AFFC)

      This High Septon seems to have a strange fondness for Ned Stark, even though Ned Stark kept the Old Gods. Maybe cause he is Ned’s old friend, Howland Reed.

      It is strange to see that there has been no sign of Howland Reed so far. The last we know is Robb Stark asking his two messengers (Maege Mormont and Galbert Glover) to deliver a message to Howland Reed, and have Howland send him guides to help his army navigate through the bogs. When Glover asks Robb if Howland would fail him, he replies that the crannongman would never fail him.

      Galbart Glover rubbed his mouth. “There are risks. If the crannogmen should fail you…”

      “We will be no worse than before. But they will not fail. My father knew the worth of Howland Reed.” (Catelyn: ASOS)

      We also know that the message Robb sent to Howland Reed was highly significant. Whether Howland Reed received this letter is something we don’t know for certain. Another letter of interest is the letter Ned Stark wrote before his execution. We don’t know if that letter was intended for Howland Reed either.

      When Bran recalls what he had been taught about crannogmen, he remembers that crannogmen never fight in open battles. They are called a cowardly people because they hide from their foes.

      He tried to recall all he had been taught of the crannogmen, who dwelt amongst the bogs of the Neck and seldom left their wetlands. They were a poor folk, fishers and frog-hunters who lived in houses of thatch and woven reeds on floating islands hidden in the deeps of the swamp. It was said that they were a cowardly people who fought with poisoned weapons and preferred to hide from foes rather than face them in open battle. And yet Howland Reed had been one of Father’s staunchest companions during the war for King Robert’s crown, before Bran was born. (Bran: ACOK)

      I don’t think we will see Howland Reed raise an army of crannogmen, and head to King’s Landing. Nor will we see him in open battle. I think Howland Reed plans to avenge the Starks, and also get to the bottom of what is really happening at King’s Landing. As High Septon, whatever punishment he metes out to Cersei, is one she must accept. (Her ‘walk of shame’ punishment eerily reminiscent of the way her Lord father Tywin Lannister had once stripped his father’s mistress naked, and paraded her across Lannisport.)

      By abolishing the law that prevents the Faith Militant from taking up arms, Howland (as High Septon) has a bigger army (The Faith Militant) than the Lannisters do at King’s Landing currently. When Jaime left for the Riverlands, he took the greater part of the Lannister host with him.

      “The new High Septon has revived them. He’s sent out a call for worthy knights to pledge their lives and swords to the service of the Seven. The Poor Fellows are to be restored as well.” (Jaime: AFFC)

      Howland Reed as High Septon is the most powerful man in King’s Landing right now. And I think he has a few tricks lined up his sleeve while he makes the Lannisters pay their debts, and prepares the way to reveal the true heir of Rhaegar Targaryen.

      Obviously he doesn’t follow the Seven but is using the religion of the southerners against them and to get him where he needs to be. I think he will still have a part to play being now the only survivor of the ToJ (and knowing about R+L = J) and also seemingly being sent important letters by Rob and maybe Ned. I’m not saying it’s cast-iron at all but can’t be dismissed out of hand.

      Wimsey,

      There isn’t enough screentime to go into the why and where fors of the whole Robert’s Rebellion cause. All the audience needs to know is R+L = J. Anymore detail can be done in a prequel film/series where they can do the whole story justice. They need to start reminding the audience who both of them were more now or that whole reveal will fall completely flat as I don’t think the casual audience will remember the couple of conversations in the first season and Selmy mentioning Rhaegar a couple of times to Dany and therefore be completely unprepared for it . No flashback would be needed just have Selmy talk about Rhaegar more and another character (HR if here ever pops up or maybe Benjen if he’s ever found!) reveal what happened between Ned and Lyanna.

      Patchface,

      Some people have put forward Arthur Dayne but I’m not convinced by that one. The only evidence for it is that I find it hard to believe the 3 members of the KG ( especially Dayne) although outnumbered would lose to Ned and his bunch at the ToJ.

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    91. TheTouchOfFrost,

      No way! Look, your exposition of HS theory is well written, I’ll give you that, but it’s just so out there…do not take this the wrong way, I do not intend to insult or be confrontational, but I find the theory unlikely and quite frankly a bit absurd.

      HS is neither HR nor AD. His ‘attachment’ to Ned Stark is easily explained by the respect everyone had for him. Don’t read too much into it… I would sooner believe AD=HR, but even this it’s quite a stretch!

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    92. Patchface,

      Don’t see why it’s so absurd in a world where there’s dragons and people coming back to life! There’s a lot of indicators that it COULD be HR. Is it not strange how the HS is ridiculously harsh in some aspects of the faith yet has no issue with people keeping the Old Gods. In the medieval-esque setting of GoT , the agents of certain religions aren’t very forgiving od others of other religions! There’s certainly more the the HS than meets the eye. Not saying it definately is HR but I wouldn’t rule it out. I guess the only way we’ll find out is when those books come out!

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    93. TheTouchOfFrost,

      It’s not absurd in that way. Dragons and wights are fantasy, but they essentially explain themselves. They are magic; this is another matter —a matter of storytelling and human behavior.

      The theory is simply way too convoluted, both in terms of storytelling and of a realistic, workable plan that Howland Reed would come up with. You can fit Reed in the character if you want, but the point is… to do so, he would have to have orchestrated a ridiculously complex and unnecessarily convoluted conspiracy.

      In fact, these crack theories (Daario=Euron, Reed=High Sparrow) remind me of the logic used by conspiracy theories.

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    94. Luka Nieto,

      As ridiculous as Illyrio and Varys sending Dany off with a Dothraki Horselord? Or Doran’s the secret marriage pact of Viserys and Arianne? Or smuggling Aegon away and putting another child’s body in his place? Or that Robert Baratheon’s kids were actually Jaime’s? Or the Hound is still alive and incognito with a religious sect? ,etc ,etc.

      Why is is convulated? HR has an objective and commandeering the faith and using it for his purpose is the way he chooses to achieve it as he has no military might. It’s not hard to follow at all…in fact a lot easier than a number of other plotlines currently in motion.
      Not all conspiracy theories have been disproved and some have even been revealed to be true. Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not after you as they say!

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